Jay Kinder: Two Agents a Month Became 7,000

AAPpod Jay Kinder Podcast Cut: I only brought on two people a month. So like I'm not even that good at this. So, you know, at at two people a month, I'm like, I'll do the math. I was like, dang, I thought I did more than that. Like I did a lot of calls. It seems like I worked harder than that. But two people a month turned into, you know, whatever it is, seven thousand agents. I couldn't have done that in my own brokerage. I know that. Like my how would I have gotten to seven thousand agents in my own brokerage? Impossible. Like impossible. It's the leverage of other people. It's not about who you're gonna recruit. It's about the thing and this is hard to as an entrepreneur because we're so used to push the pedal down and see the accelerate, like see it accelerate that it's hard to imagine, well, I'm counting on all these other people that are gonna go do something, and that's that's how that's how we're gonna get there. But that's truly the leverage. Is it if it has to be you, then it's not left. If you're looking to attract more agents, build leaders, or grow your organization, you're in the right place. Every single week. You're going to hear stories from people who've actually done it. You're gonna get behind the scenes information, and you're gonna walk away with practical strategies that you can implement right away. I'm John Pugh, and since joining a Revenue Share model in 2020, I've built an organization of over a thousand agents and I've coached the best of the best on growing their teams and revenue share organizations. Now, my mission is simple to help you build a business that creates more freedom. More impact and more opportunity for the life you truly want. Welcome to the Agent Attraction Podcast. If you were to look at the Mount Rushmore of EXP, you would see this guy's smiling face on it. I am thrilled to have the one the only Mr. Jay Kinder on the Agent Attraction podcast today. What's up, Jay? What's going on, my man? How are you doing, John? Doing excellent. He is the Michael Jordan of this game for sure. we got no LeBron James here with you. I was about to say thanks for not calling me the LeBron or something. You know, I'm Jordan. I don't know about Jordan, but you know, I'm you know, I don't want to be LeBron. No, I'm just I th I think you're the GOAT, man. I think you are you're the one that I've always most looked up to. So I'm excited. I want to get right into it. I was just telling Jay before we started here that I want to make this as approachable as possible. Jay. Represents the high side. He represents the Michael Jordan level of what is possible within this, but he has seen so much and contributed so much to so many people. So I'm really excited to get your take. I'm gonna start with outside of EXP. So for all not just EXP, cloud-based brokerages, for all the agents that are just out there at a normal brokerage that isn't cloud-based, that doesn't have a revenue share model, what do you think they're missing or misunderstanding about the opportunity? And what that model could do for their business, whether or not they ever earned a dollar of revenue share themselves. Yeah. I I think you know, it's like, you know, when you when when you at a certain point in your business, you're just trying to solve the problem that's in front of you. And that might be getting customers, it might be social media. There's a plenty of problems that keep you busy and you don't even see that this is a possible. thing that you should focus on or even understand why it's important. And I said I think for the most part, it's really truly leveraged income and it's and it's very high leverage and it can be extremely meaningful. but like anything else, I could coach someone how to go get that expired, you know, that's you know, we got more of today than we've had in the past. And you're gonna do that. And then next month you're gonna have to do it again. And then next month you're gonna to do it again. And until you have revenue that comes in every single month, whether Whether you're doing something active in that role or not, you don't really know the value of it. And I think passive income, if you want to call it that, or leveraged income is harder to create than anything anybody tells you. You know, every book I've ever read, talk they all talk about it like everybody has it, but I think it's very difficult to create, especially for us in real estate. you know, yeah, you know, I read you know, Rich Dad Poor Dad. And, you know, there's no chapter in Rich Dad Poor Dad that talks about seven and eight, you know. Right. So if you bought like I did twenty eight rentals. that I bought by the time I was twenty-eight, and then I got punched in the teeth, you know, in seven, eight. And nowhere in that book does it say you're gonna write checks to him for a while, you know, like for sure. And so, you know, so, you know, to me, getting any type of revenue that can come in that's leveraged is really the goal. Cause we all want our time and and our evenings and our weekends back at some point. And so, you know, you you know, whether you're gonna focus on it or not, having the option to to pursue something that could pay you every month is something everyone should consider. But I think for the most part, you're just too buried in your own problems and challenges to to see it. We get blinders on, right? So we're at those other brokerages. We come in. Real estate's hard as it is, especially in a market like this, and you just keep doing things the way that you've been doing it. but then you wake up one day and somebody in your life, somebody who cares about you enough to take a stand for you and help you see something different, they bring you to a revenue share based model, right? Like a Real or AEXP. And now that opportunity that you just described to have where you have no capital down, you really have no no risk, and you have the ability to go straight to the source for leveraged income. That's now right in front of you, right? Yeah. And and yet so many agents that we see in the hallways don't capitalize on it. They don't they don't even look at it. They don't even try it. 86% ish agents at EXP specifically don't even participate in revenue share. What's the disconnect there? What do you think is the problem with that? Well, I think I think they they have not been properly trained on how to how to actually get somebody interested in changing brokerages. It's it's a sales process and understanding what somebody no different than if you're working a buyer seller, you gotta understand what their goals are, their needs, what's missing. And how yeah how this is gonna add value. But I think most agents think of changing brokerages as at a lateral move, right? I'm I'm over here just trying to figure it out. And you want me to come over there and try to figure it out because it's better? Like that's a really hard sell to make. And so, you know, you you you maybe go try, you know, hey, what do you think of it? You need to come to EXP and and I hear it all the time. Still, you know, people trying to recruit to EXP and hopefully get people to see what they saw, you know, what we all saw as an opportunity. And they and you know, they just don't see it. And they're like, I don't have time for that. I gotta sell a house right now. I'm this is if they don't see their own needle moving, their own life getting better, then you lose them at step one. They think they think they know what EXP is. They don't truly know, but they think they do. And so I think you you know, you you even if you do try it, you're likely to run into enough resistance that you're like, Man, forget it. I'll just go sell houses. Yeah. So that that's a perfect segue to like what do you think is the biggest reason that people try it and then fail. So yeah, I think I think everybody likes the idea. You know, that let's say they got to a place where they're like, yeah, all these people are making all this money in revenue share. How do I get some of that? Tell me how to do it. And they, you know, they they become they they they try it, but they they probably don't treat it like I want to go pro at it. Like and I think that's I think to be great at anything or even to be good at anything, you gotta put a lot of effort into it. And you know, either they have the right mentors or they're winging it. you know, that or that's probably the biggest challenge is that nobody showed them there's a process, there's a system, and it's completely different than what you've learned to sell real estate and and you have to be willing to be that student in order to become good at agent attraction. I think the people that have I think anyone can do agent. Would you agree? Anyone can do Whether you're a top agent or no. I see it. Yeah. Every day. People that ain't never sold a house recruit all day long. I've seen anybody and everybody in every case and situation you could imagine has has done it and proved that it can be done. So if you're watching this, I promise you, I've seen it too. I there it does not matter what your pedigree is or how successful you are. I think sometimes the more experienced agents, this is what I was getting to. I think the more experienced agents actually struggle more than the inexperienced agents because It takes a certain willingness to suck. Like if you're really good at selling houses, you've been doing it for 20 years, you make a lot of money. It's really hard in your mind to say, okay, I'm gonna take a step backwards. I'm gonna go back and be new at something. I'm gonna be crappy at something for six months or a year or whatever it takes to get good at it. And when I'm done, the check is gonna be $500 or $1,000 or something like when I'm used to making $10 or $20,000 checks. Why would you why would you tell a top producer that it's worth it to to go through that, back back up, learn something new again and like the power of that leveraged income compared to like this GCI? All these agents want to talk about making five hundred thousand, a million dollars in GCI. Why is it more powerful to kind of take a step back and maybe focus on that recurring income? Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it is hard because you can go out and you you can go ring another client and be and make ten, twelve, fifteen grand and be like, that was that didn't I didn't have to suck it all for any amount of time. You know, that was you know and but I think you know, you get to a certain point when you've done it you know, you've done thousands and thousands of deals in your evenings and weekends and you're like, There's gotta be a better way, you know, and so you gotta get I think to a certain degree you gotta get to a point where I'm willing to become a student again to learn this so that I can get my life back. Cause the more successful you are at real estate, the harder it gets. The mount you know, you climb the mountain of, you know, becoming the expert and and and doing all that. And then you get to the top of that mountain and you see there's another mountain. The another mountain is leverage and your capacity and how do you hire, train and manage people and lead people and you gotta become that person in order to climb that mountain. And and now you you it's it's this continuous challenge that you you go through as you, you know, as your career gets Better and better. And you look up 15 years later and you're like, How do I I built a prison is what it feels like. and you're trying you're trying to figure out how to get out of prison to let you build you know, built around yourself. It's only a prison if you built like a 30 agent team. Yeah, 100%. Well, that's what you do. You don't you're you get that leverage, you're like, Well, the answer is obviously everybody's read the Red Book, right? It's built seventh level, build a team. And then, you know, you're trying to step out of production, it's not profitable while you're doing that. And You got agents that won't do anything that you tell them to do, even if it's for their own good, like they just won't. And like you're wondering why won't you? And then your best one that you've made take taken from, you know, this income level to this income level now wants to talk about split or they're leaving you and going somewhere. It's I mean, it's it they're it's not perfect, right? And so, you know, they're up meanwhile, you're getting your awards, you're walking across the stage as the top agent in your market. Like, look at me go and you're like, This is this how did I get tricked into this? You're working more. Sometimes you're even making less. Yeah. And and if you don't have a passion, like I think that the people who build really big teams, where it makes it worth it, is when they're like, I am passionate about all these people. Yeah. Like I want to take care of all these people, my staff, my agents. Like when you when that's what your thing is, I think that's different. But if your thing is like, I want to live the best life I can, I want to have the best lifestyle I can, I want to have some freedom. Like all the reasons that people start building a team, right? I think that that's That's a really that's a really that so let me ask you this question then. So when do you 'cause I think that I th I believe the same thing. I don't think I didn't I didn't build a team 'cause I was so smart that I needed I knew I needed leverage and I was building my exit strategy. That eventually kind of on that mountain I discovered that I enjoyed helping people. Like that that My purpose didn't s I didn't start with the purpose of helping people. I discovered that that was my purpose along the way. Where where do you when do you feel like people discover, man, it feels really good to like really help someone, you know, you know, make it in real estate, you know, like most people don't make it in real estate and being able when do you think people get to that point where they're they're pursuing something that's bigger than them? When they have so it's like the hierarchy of needs. When they have enough of their needs met. It's like what you said earlier, where you were like, when you're just trying to sell a house, when you're just trying to make it, like you have blinders on because you're focused on yourself. You can't get outside of yourself. But this business is really hard. And so by the time you get to a point where you have enough for yourself, that's when you finally have a little bit of, you know, bandwidth to look outside and say, you know what? Maybe I can reach down and give back to the person behind me. And I think that the more people stay in that space, that that really creates there's a difference between like happiness and like satisfaction. Yeah. And like fulfillment, like fulfill fulfillment, absolutely. So like happiness is very fleeting. Happiness is like a close-a-deal, let's go get drinks. Fulfillment is like with my story with Megan Niles, had sold two homes at her prior brokerage, was gonna quit real estate completely. I believed, like she was a former athlete basketball player. Like I saw something in her. I gave her that little bit of confidence. She sold 17 homes in her first 12 months at EXP. She went on to earn the icon award while pregnant the following year. She stacked four, I think five icon awards back to back now. She was literally gonna quit. Like, we're like we're like this now. Like that story never ever happens without this environment. And like our kids go to Disneyland together. Like it is a whole different world. made solely possible through this and thank goodness because that creates a ton of fulfillment. 100% man. 100%. That's that's when you're when you're looking for that, this I think that you have to have that kind of mindset and to see this opportunity as hey, if I add enough value to enough people, then the money takes care of itself. It's just got to be adds how do we add the most value to the most people and and to their lives and the revenue share model takes care of itself. I think most people don't understand the math of what it takes to get free. And so when I said like I had twenty eight rental properties, you know, and I was twenty-eight years old and then I'm writing checks to them. Basically 10 years of my life I built something that I had to start over from zero. I was like, okay, well, that that's not in the book. That wasn't part of the plan. And then you build, you know, you build it back and you're you're smarter this time and you learn some things, you know, along the way. But like to create, you know, ten thousand dollars or let's use it for like ninety six thousand dollars a year in passive income. So yeah, you could go interview a lot of wealthy peop people that you think are doing really well, and they probably don't have that kind of passive income. Agreed. and for you to and for you to get to that, you you had to make one point two million after your taxes, after you paid your living expenses, didn't buy the fancy car, stayed in the smaller house, disciplined, and then you invested. And this is what people don't tell you is you're gonna fuck up that first investment. Okay. So you think at least one or two. At least, at least, at least. Mine I've Mine I did I for sure did on the rental properties. I ended up having flipping properties. I was building houses. All that stuff ended up you know, ended up back on my plate. And and now my rentals are right. I'm writing checks to them. I'm like, this is I can't do this forever. Like in it in the worst time in the market ever. And so it's like I know you know I know you know the math. I wanna get to that 'cause it's almost like you're peeking. We're going to EXP Con this week and I'm speaking, you're speaking. It's almost like you're peeking at my slide deck. which is gonna be hilarious when you watch this. But it it So what I wanted to talk about first is in my in my presentation, I talk about the three lies of real estate. So we get into real estate to be our own boss, to make an unlimited amount of money, and to work whenever we want. And then what we immediately find out is that we're working all the time, our clients are our boss and we're not making as much money as we wish we would. Right. Right. Right. And then we get into the fourth lie of real estate, which is I'm gonna sell enough houses to save enough money to buy rental properties and I'm going to retire that way. Except for the fact that you and I have been in real estate for a really long time, and I don't know hardly anyone who's ever achieved that goal, let alone a seventh level team or any of this nonsense, right? So there there was never a path to retirement, a real path to retirement, because that doesn't make the brokerages any money. Right. Like we are the sales force. If they if somebody had created an opportunity like that, that's not in their self-interest. So until Glenn Sanford came along and gave us this, there really was no plan that was achievable because Look, you can buy one rental property. You can work. My math says you need to go do two to three thousand hours of work to save about maybe fifty to a hundred grand to leverage that in to make about six hundred to a thousand dollars in monthly passive income or l or leveraged income, right? That's about my math. Until the AC goes out or the roof needs replaced or or you know and then it might be a hundred dollars a month or whatever it is, right? So like you're really struggling to get by. And then you have this opportunity where each person that comes in almost kind of represents the same cash flow. So which would you rather do? Go sell 10 more houses or maybe influence one agent. And the the this is the piece that that I think you dude, we literally have the same brain, I think. Like this is what I try to get people to earn. And I think you just have to go through enough life experiences sometimes to get to the place where you understand this. But Even if you were able to save that money and make that an investment and create that passive income. And and the thing that they don't tell you is that timing in real estate is everything. So you can go buy that rental property in 03, 04, or 05, and you're gonna get your butt handed to you. And there's nothing you could have done about that. So some some people they bought in 10, 11, and 12 and they killed it, right? But sure you don't control timing and you don't know until you're looking back as it whether it was a good timing or not. but when it comes down to when it comes down to what no vehicle has that that EXP and Revenue Share has is that that now that one agent can go tell another person and they could go tell another person and they could go tell another person. It it has a a compounding effect to a passive income stream. And that, my friend, is never been see. You wrote what is probably the greatest post on revenue share of all time where you broke down the value of each person and you were like, why am I putting time into anything other than this? This is can you kind of help everyone understand what that post kind of was about and and how you see the value. Cause you're right, a rental property never got legs, ran down the street and went and got seven more rental properties. And if people really are investing, which they're not, they would know that after the third or fourth or fifth rental property, they won't lend you any money anymore. You're too high risk. So that you're not gonna get a seventh or eighth or ninth deal unless you're self financing them. So anyway, what talk about the the actual math as you see the field. Yeah. So you know The you know, the simple math is I I can show somebody, and again, this is what we do all day, right? So I can show you how to get enough recruits it to get you to eight thousand dollars a year and a month in passive income, which gives you some some space that you would had to have saved one point two million. And you look at your current plan that you're on, and like how long is it gonna take me to get to one point two million? And am I gonna make a mistake or not with that money? Isn't factored into this, but you didn't have to deploy any capital. You just had to put in effort. But it's the it's the understanding that one every one person that I bring on is worth 0.85. So one is worth almost worth two. So when you look at if I bring on 10 agents and those ten agents go all bring 0.85 agents and then those bring point five, what is one agent worth to you? One agent might be worth twenty-five agents, and depending on what their production is, that's a sizable number that is more that that's growing and multiplying. Whereas Nothing else that I've ever touched does that. And so I don't remember the post exactly word for word what I put in it. It was like ninety-two thousand dollars a head, like something insane, right? Like for every one person I I only brought like I only brought on two people a month. So like I'm not even that good at this. So, you know, at at two people a month, I'm like, I'll do the math. I was like, dang, I thought I did more than that. Like I did a lot of calls. It seemed like I worked harder than that. But two people a month turned into, you know, whatever it is, seven thousand agents. I couldn't have done that in my own brokerage. I know that. Like my how would I have got to 7,000 agents in my own brokerage? Impossible. Like impossible. It's the leverage of other people. It's not about who you're going to recruit. It's about the thing. And this is hard to as an entrepreneur because we're so used to push the pedal down and see the accelerate, like see it accelerate that it's hard to imagine, well, I'm counting on all these other people that are going to go do something, and that's that's how that's how we're going to get there. But that's truly the leverage. Is it if it has to be you, then it's not leverage. So timing is important and people will some some critics will say, well, Jay got in early and he benefited. And obviously I I don't subscribe to that. I think that your positioning was great, but you also did a lot more than most people would have done. It was not easy either. By by far. And look, I recruited a great agent every other month. You recruited two a month. I'm here, you're here, but like we're we're doing all right. Yeah. I I just what do you say to the people who say it's too late? Because I know when you were doing it, the roads were not paved. Like you were in a rickety wagon, nobody had a car, nobody had nobody had Amazon. Like it was it was not fun. It was the Wild West. And I came in a little bit later and and you know, some of it was there. Obviously a ground floor, but they paved the roads, you know, they gave you a a real vehicle that the doors locked and yeah. but like nowadays, right, I look at it and I'm like, dude, the opportunity is is as good, if not better, than it ever has been. What do you s what do you say to that and why? Yeah. So I mean, the last year, well, we're all entrepreneurs, we're all innovating, and we're all trying to add value because the opportunity is so big that it it makes sense for us to try to how do we ha first of all, exp is at scale the best operational company that I've ever seen operate. So the you know, going through the seasons of, you know, you you know, at 10,000 agents, the person that we got that got us to ten thousand agents is not the same person to get you to thirty thousand agents. To see a company go through leadership change at the different levels that are required to get you to the next levels, you start to recognize that not everybody's gonna ever be able to do that. So you don't you don't fear competition because the odds that they're gonna get all of those things right are very much stacked against them. It gets harder really, really hard as you go, as you go up the levels. Uh-huh. And so seeing EXP survived all that. I have a tremendous amount of confidence in in the company operationally and the things that we're doing and the right people in the right seats. We've we've we've came through all that. So n will anybody else catch up to us? I there's no way in the world. It's not gonna happen. So I just don't see that as possible. And and that gives us the ability to go recruit more. I've recruited more agents in the last 15 months than I did the first 12 months I was at EXP. And I think I set the record at the time like a a thousand agents or eleven hundred agents in twelve months. And so yeah, we're a lot more people coming over. Yeah, it took us two weeks to onboard them. I mean it was a complete mess. But we're in that time frame now where with AI, the things that we can leverage to add more value and solve problems is greater than it's ever been. And now That yeah, I think we're at the best time you could possibly be in in life that we've ever seen. The opportunity is the big that's why I quit drinking twelve months ago. I was like, I gotta be fully attentive to what is in front of us because we're in the the time frame where the most money ever in history is gonna be made for those that solve the biggest problems. And everybody over here at EXP, we're all waking up every day thinking about how do we help agents, not how do we would knock them over the head and take another charge from And in that, you know, there's plenty of people trying to get in their pockets, but with all of us collectively thinking about how do we actually help agents, that gives us a tremendous advantage. I think it keeps the company really honest. I think I think any revenue share model is really brilliant because it's a distributed leadership model. So we're able to have rather than paying corporate salaries and having a regional director that doesn't really have skin in the game that's supposed to like help the agents in their area or whatever, we have this distributed leadership where we all have skin in the game. But not only do we have skin in the game, we have competition against one another. So I've always looked at it and been like, man, of course we're gonna win. Cause I gotta wake up every day and think about how I can be better than Jay Kinder or he's gonna get all the all the recruits. And Jay's gotta wake up and stay relevant. Otherwise, I'm gonna get all the people. And there's not only me and you, there's like hundreds of us, right? And at like at a high level, and then there's thousands of us at like a more broad level. And so I just think that this value race that we're in with one another creates such a Like it's not only good for our company, it's good for the entire industry because you know as well as I do, I have to go out and provide value to maybe five agents for every one that I actually directly influence. So there's still eighty percent of the agents that I'm contributing value to that never make it within the walls of the company. Like they're still over at Coldwell Banker having a better life because of it. Right. I think that's a really cool Yeah, man. It's it's it that that would be cool to be able to measure that influence and that impact because we're opening up all of our playbooks. Anything we can do to add value and anybody can catch on and maybe they don't want to come over to EXP, but they learned something and it added value to their, you know, to their life and they they go on and sell more real estate. That's a great point. I I love watching the, you know, Gary V puts out so much content. And I love watching him like get hy hyped on trends. Like, you know, he he doesn't have to do anything, but he's like, if I were starting over again today, like this is what so I'm just curious, like, if we dropped you in today, you're not Jay Kinder, you don't have the massive war chest of, you know, everything. Like you're just you're just day one Jay or or just an average agent. Like, what would you do if you had the same ambition? Like you want to be fastest growing leader, you want to grow a huge group, you understand the value of leveraged income. Like what what would you do starting today? Yeah. Not from what you notice. Yeah. That's a great, great question. And and I I as you were asking it, I didn't know how I was going to answer this, but I would do what I did to get where I'm at. I would find whoever is the best in the world at it, the first the two or three people that have done it and continuously done it and helped other people do it too. And I would vacuum up everything they told me and taught me. That's that's how I became successful was by hard work trying to find I mean, flying around the country, getting in the right rooms, paying all the coaches. I mean, I there's nobody that didn't get my money. that's my default and how to figure something out, which when I joined EXP, the first person, you know, this book that I read was GoPro by Eric Warrey because I knew that this was a network marketing comp plan and there was things I didn't know. And then the next one after that was Brian Carruthers, and I hired Brian. And so you know, building an empire. That if if I have to learn something, I find who is the expert and I go figure out what do I have what should I do? I wouldn't try to just and my first thought was, I wonder if I would just start because I don't do a lot of social media. So like I just don't. I'm lazy. But if I had to start over, like 'cause you mentioned Gary V and I'm thinking I know I need to do social media. Like I might no, I wouldn't even start there. I would start By finding whoever has helped the most people do this, and I would go learn from them. I'm those I'm not very smart. I just know that I can copy really good. Find somebody who's doing this and just go figure out, have learn from them as opposed to thinking you're gonna figure it out on your own. That would be my default. Obviously, Brian Cruthers wrote a bunch of great books, including Building an Empire. Eric Warrior, you mentioned GoPro. what is like one thing that you took from each of them as leaders that you would recommend that everybody take and put in their back pocket? Like what's your favorite Eric Wari and Brian Cruthers like Eric Worey has a script that is in his book GoPro that that by far changed changed the outcome. This little things, like but his scripting was dead on. And one of the things that I would ask people after they would watch an EXP explained back in the day was what did you think? I didn't I came up with that question on my own. It's a terrible question. People don't should shit, Jerry. I hated it. Goodbye. Claire basically, yeah, they would say any dumb thing you could imagine. Sure. And the in the one little to and I w and the one little s switch that I made was there was two things. There was the triple connect. So hey, if I send you this, would you watch it? When would you watch it by? And and so if I send it to you today, you could watch it by such and such on Friday. So that that triple commit. Where they committed three times. That changed my that changed the conversion of a human that I talked to to actually watching it from about 40% to about 80%. So that one thing was like a huge, huge difference. And then what did you think? What did you like about what you saw? asking that question after they watched it gave me another it gave me information that was I was able to use in the conversation to know what were their interest level was and get them to the next step. And so it that that skill that had to be developed that was non that was non existent, that came from Eric Ware. the the I think the the thing that I took from Brian Carruthers more so was the entire was there's an entire structure and a model around building and and everything in it has proven to be true. And so that that the whole structure, I mean, Eric Ware gave me pieces and then The model to follow was Eric War was was was Brian Corruppers. Right. I love that. So with that, you are building an empire. You have built an empire. You understand building leaders and whatnot. what what are the things that you see what what do your leaders have in common that causes them to be successful? Like what are the traits of Number one, number one coachable. number one coachable, number two, they show up, they show up. The the three you know this is a a lost art. Okay. So we we're talking about this the other day. I've done thousands and thousands of three-way calls. and and I know other leaders that you know that we've partnered with and and some of them haven't, but like when I look at who's an average person that has gotten to a thousand agents, yeah, one hundred percent of the people that were in my down in in my revenue share group did at least a hundred and fifty three way calls with me. So when I saw and and in fact They did that so well that they taught two or three, four other people to do it. And I did th those calls with them as well. All of those people are also now doing three-way calls, and they all have a thousand, meaning they're teaching, they're teaching a process, they follow the process, super coachable, to a point where I told Dan Hilsman is my favorite story because Hilsman about we're probably a hundred three-way calls into this, maybe fifty, somewhere in that. It was a lot. I felt like I saw him every day because he's on my he's on a zoom with me. He was he was steadily inviting consistently. And he was bringing those people on to a three-way call. He said, Jay, he goes, You know, you told me a long time ago that, you know, you know, I don't care what question they ask. He said whatever I told him verbatim. He said, he said, you said whatever I, you know, whatever question they have, I don't care if it's the color of the sign. You tell him, you know what, I'm kind of new. Just tell him, you know, I know a guy, get him on a call with you know, and get him on a call with you. He said Okay, wait, wait, wait, I gotta pause you there. That's your conversion script, right? Because people always say, How do you get people to take a three-way call? So you you basically say I it doesn't matter what question they have. You just you just say, you know what, I don't really know, but how but I know a guy. I know a guy. It doesn't matter what they say. Is the sky blue over there at EXP? You know what? I'm not really sure, but I know a guy. Guy used to sell a ton of houses. He's helped a lot of people. You're gonna love him. That was it. Well what was funny about this was I'd forgotten I had told him that. And so you know, I'd get on those three way calls and I would just do the process of, you know, understand what are you trying to do, man? Tell me about your what you're trying to accomplish and And and then and it would always end up going well and we'd recruit a bunch of them. And so Hillsman's like, Hey man, if they ask me a real simple question that I know the answer to, is it cool? You know, can I and I said, Well, yeah, that's dumb. Like, why would you do that? And I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, This has been working pretty good, bro. Like, maybe not. I think maybe the whole goal is to just to get to the three-way call and let me answer any questions and get into and so we laugh about it now, but like that was the process. And so I think people that are coachable. that are consistent and that follow the process are the ones that are successful. Now why does cause people they are like, Well, I'm smart, I'm a good salesperson, I sell a lot of houses, I have the relationship with them. I don't want to get on a three way call. It doesn't make sense to me. So why is it so important? Why does it work so well? Cause it drives me crazy when people don't understand the process and they won't just follow the process. Well well Is especially if they're interested. So if they're interested, you start thinking that you you're gonna get and you start thinking you can say anything and then you say a bunch of stuff and you get to the end of a conversation and you're like, Well, I they didn't they well, now what do I do? Because you didn't have a there's you know, it it falls into a black hole of they're not moving, but you don't know why. And and you know, you feel like, Well, I might get someday. And so that's what usually happens if you don't if you don't bring in a third party person. But that I I think the psychology of they think you're recruiting them. So they see everything you say and they with through a lens that is, yeah, but you're just trying to recruit me. Yeah. When you bring a third party in, even though we know that that person probably benefits, they don't make the connection that this person is gonna win as well. And I think that they're more open minded at that point to listen to what's being said. And so I think the gate of the mind opens in that three way call. And you know, you're not selling them, you're just helping them discover that this might be better for them to a better way for them to accomplish what they're tr already trying to do. And they don't feel like it's a sales a sales conversation and it feels like a genuine, hey, this guy's just trying to help me. I think that that that psychology is what is the big difference. I agree with you. I think for sure it's it's even if you do have a vested interest, they don't see it that way. Yeah. And that's very critical for them to you can say things. I can say things that the person with the key relationship can't say, right? Like they they can't approach this conversation the same way that I can't. I can ask questions that are that are I can ask questions that I can get away with, but if you asked it, it would be it would be probably ruin the conver it would ruin the relationship that you have that you may read. Yeah, a hundred percent. let's you've talked about a couple of cool people, let's brag on somebody else. Like who is a great success story of somebody who did something that you really want other people to know about and they've had a ton of success growing within your organization as a result of it. Like let's let's brag on one or two of your leaders for Yeah. I mean, gosh, there's there's so many agents that have done extremely well. you know, the the agents that I I that I come to mind right off the off the bat are Dan Hilsman, Andre LeFountain, Levi McDonald, James Massey, Pierre Nado. Let's talk about Levi or James. We had P we had Andre on the podcast, so go watch that episode if you haven't. Andre's probably my favorite story in Revenue Share, because that guy is like super boring, and like that's what makes him successful. He is just committed to a process. tiles up better than anybody. It it's amazing. talk about one of these other guys and what what kind of made them click. Yeah, so so you know, both Levi and James. And actually Pierre all had real estate teams. they they had bought into the f false, you know, they were building a prison, they you know, they were they were caught up in looking at how much how much, you know, sales and how much gross commission income they were bringing in. Yeah. And it wasn't until I said, But are you making any money? And then they were like, Well, nobody ever talks about that. What do you mean? Yeah, what do you mean? You know, like, No, I ain't making no money, but how'd you know? Like that's kinda how it went. And so, you know for for me it was it it was I don't know, I feel like I'm only out there trying to do good and and you know they were in a different camp with people that were selling something that you know that was about building something that was not true. And and it it felt good for me to see them come over, build their business the right way, and then also teach others how to do that too. And so you know, I'm about like what's getting you free and nothing else where it doesn't matter that we don't get trophies, you know, that you can cash in. So Let's let's try to actually help people. And and I've watched them build organizations by by actually trying to help people build a build a business as opposed to, you know, the hey, you get an award for, you know, the sterling award is for anybody who can fog a mirror. You know, that that stuff is, you know, to me is And there's so much there's so much ego in all of that, right? Like it's but it's not it's not serving it's not serving people, it's not serving their own personal goals. Like if this isn't making your family's life better, if you're not giving back to your community, like What is the point of all of this? Like really, right? So, all right. So you've been at EXP for a really long time. This could be like within your organization or without, but tell us a feel-good story. Tell me something like EXP changed a life, and it's like the kind of thing that you're just like, Man, I'm so proud to be a part of and around this because I've seen the impact that it's had. Yeah. I mean, there there's numerous stories of of of people who have have revenue share that's coming in and someone in their family has gotten, you know, ill and they had to take off and they they realize they wouldn't have been able to do that if had it not been for revenue share. That's the obvious reason you want to have some type of of income coming in consistently every month 'cause you don't know what life brings you and and you don't know what situation you might find yourself in in the future where that would have put you under to be able to do that or you missed time with someone because you didn't have the ability to step away. you know The mine w the thing that comes to mind is is you know, a guy this guy was my Uber driver. His name's Juan Carlos. And he was he was my driver to a Mavericks game. And and he just as soon as he gets in the car, he's talking about how he's getting his real estate license and he's he interviewed seven brokerages. And I wasn't trying to recruit him. It wasn't a you know, I was just going to I was like, I'm not gonna even go there. But the guy that was with me, Ryan Finch, used to sell a thousand homes a year and he wasn't gonna let it go. So he's You gotta, you know, you got two people in the car that could probably help you. You you got an hour drive here. Why don't you ask some questions? He was super confident he was doing the right thing. And he said, I interviewed seven brokers before I landed, and this one, she's amazing. They're doing my photos on Monday. And I was like, okay, that's about where it ends. And and I said, Well, why are you trying to get why'd you get in real estate? He said, He said, I just want to stop driving Uber. I How much money do you need to make to not drive Uber ever again? He said, I need about fifteen grand a month. I said, That's that's a sale and a half in in Dallas Fort Worth. So do this. Just when you go back to that broker, say, ask her what is your plan from day one to day ninety to get me making fifteen thousand dollars a month and just see if Just make her have a plan to help you. And I didn't think I'd ever hear from him again. So he calls me on the net following Monday, distraught. Like you could tell, distraught. he said, I think she fired me. And I said, What? I said, What what happened? He said, Well, I said what you told me to say, and she got really flustered and frustrated and said, Well, if you think that's better, then you should just go with them. And he's like, I told her I'd talked to y'all, but at EXP, but I said, Well, I said, dude, don't worry about it. I said, you know, you just s saved 90 days of, you know, struggle of trying to figure it out on your own. I said, come over here, we're gonna help you and we're gonna help you grow your business. It was a well a while later I met but mech met back up with him. He didn't even know what capping meant. So he had capped and he just capped like eighty one thousand. And he's like, What's cap? Like I said, cap means you are at a hundred percent now for the remainder of your anniversary year. And he said, he said, no way. So he had a deal that next week that was double ended. And so it's like twenty something thousand. And then he had another deal that week. So he's almost thirty thousand in all commission. Never drove Uber again. He's built his business. He iconed and you know, now he's building a team. And and I just believe, you know, had this had had Glenn not built his company with this the current economic structure that it is, that I would have had to sell him something and in order for me to help him. It's like Megan Niles. It's the same story. It's like I could never have helped this person, there would be no alignment. Except for the fact that this model incentivizes, and I love that it's your buddy in the car, not even you, that's like, hey, you probably want to ask some questions. And now that now this guy's life forever changed, and like his story is gonna go on to inspire other people, etc. So that's and he was you know he was he was he was coachable and he was ambitious, but he would not have succeeded over there. Like the there was nobody helping him with what he needed, which was how do I get customers consistently and who's gonna help me? And you know, you go through the You know, you make a little bit of money, spin it over here, try this thing, try that thing. You know, everybody goes through that. And we just shortcutted him right to the, you know, built it, built everything for him, got him into conversations. He did his own, you know, content and you know, crush his content and stuff like that. But he, you know, it's his it's cool to see, you know, somebody's life change like that. That's really cool, man. That's a great segue into kind of where I want to take us as we start to wrap up. So the what I want to talk about is you talk about a system. I know there's a process. We need to have an anchor. We need to have something that people can bring people to to see value so that then they can be open minded the conversation, have a three way call, eventually land and then be successful, sell a bunch of houses, which then reaffirms the entire process and we start over again and we bring more people along for the ride. So I don't I never promote anything. I never recommend anything. Like I am a huge skeptic and I think everybody's full of it. but I have been sharing I've been sharing your recent funnel and your process with a ton of people because I I have heard great things from my coaching clients and I definitely want to help as many people as possible like you do. So why don't you share a little bit about what you have going on and how somebody might want to consider co-sponsoring with you or partnering with you or bringing people into this because I I think it's really valuable. Yeah, I appreciate I appreciate that, John. So let me tell you how it started. So you'll just appreciate this how how we got to this place. So, you know, I was you know, I was doing it, doing it, doing it. Then I, you know, figured it out, hired everybody, every coach in the the everybody that would take my money. Then I met Jay Abraham and Dan Kennedy and some of these guys that the gurus that taught the gurus within the real estate space. And I went from, you know, you know, the building my own team in in that business to starting a coaching company in 2005. And and we coached agents and and I would see two people in the exact same place. One of them becomes number one in their market, the other one doesn't doesn't. doesn't doesn't get become successful. Like they fail. They don't make it in this business. I was like, how do how do two people at the exact same place with the same opportunity right in front of them, one of them succeeds and the other one doesn't? And what it really came down to was as we coach these people, it was either they were the implementer and the implementation was the challenge. or they had they had some help or they were good at implementation. And I think there's a million ideas that all of us think, you know, we should all be doing, but it's whether they get actually executed is is usually the the things that trip people up. And so as we evolved as a coaching company, we created NAEA, which was a a way for us to build your value proposition, do all your marketing, train you and have, you know, have systems done for you. And then we evolved to a partner model. So before we were DXP, we would partner with you. So we would take an agent doing seven or ten deals. We said, listen, we're you ain't gonna have to figure none of this out. We'll make the calls, we'll set to our appointments, we'll do all the follow-up, we'll build all your marketing. We did everything for them. Make it stupid proof. Yeah. It was like, listen, they're good with clients. They just didn't know how to do all the other stuff. And we knew how to do all the other stuff. And so we did. And agents would pay us $7,500 to come be a part of that brokerage up front, which is what funded the whole mechanism that went out and got business. And it was one agent per marketplace. And we take them from from 10 deals to 70 deals. And they would they would be real happy until the end of the year. Then they want to talk about what we know is always the case, which is split. And they were on a 50-50 split with us. So I had done this before with 50-something employees. I hated my life. And I was like, come I was moving back from Puerto Rico and I was like, I just put the 500 grand into this apartment complex and it's going to pay me $3,333 a month. And I started thinking about every person that I could help. And I was like, I i if it requires you to make five hundred grand and put it into an apartment to make three thousand dollars a month and I know that I can help you build way more than that, I I owe it I didn't want to do it. I I was like, if I build this back and I just actually solve the problem for the agent, I know we can do it. But it scared me. And so that's when I knew I had to do it. I was like, you're just being a wuss. You gotta, you you, you gotta invest more into and the revenue share, which is another thing nobody understands about revenue share, 96% margin. 20 over 20 million now, 21 million, and revenue share has been paid to me. And it was 96% margin. And I'm like, You gotta be kidding me. Like this whole business was running at 94% margin. Like that's never I've never seen anything like that. It doesn't exist. It's it doesn't exist. And so I was like, You idiot, why are you not investing back into making it infinitely easier to help people recruit agents? And so, you know, I said, I j I needed something purposeful in my life to focus on because living in Puerto Rico is not helpful to your liver or to to anything purpose driven. I know and so yeah, that's a sidebar podcast for sure. But and so I said We're gonna do it. So we we started doing it for the agents. And it didn't matter. We used to come to my Wednesday training, Thursday training, Friday. We'll teach you everything we know. Then they would be like, Hey man, I built these ads and you know it's not working, man. My lead costs 18 bucks. We're like, let's look at it. We'll look at it, we'd fix it. It's like all these little nuanced things that you just don't even know you don't know. And so we started doing it for them and they would get results every time. It's like this is amazing. And so we basically I said, What would happen if we built back the machine that just When you come over, we're gonna help we are gonna help you add two to three deals a month to your business by building one pillar and we're gonna execute your follow-up, we're gonna execute your content, we're gonna execute your branding, we're gonna execute the ads and the strategy based on where you wanna do business, completely customized to you, and we're gonna support it and we're gonna we're gonna do it until you get to the result and we're never gonna charge you anything. And that was a crazy idea at the time. And it just so happened AI made everything easier along the way. And so part of this was timing. We got lucky, I would say. everything we were doing started working better. So AI picking the market, AI picking the image. Like the image, if you get the wrong image, your ad cost goes up. So you know, hey, go pull another image. And we had a whole team of people doing that every day. Now it's like AI don't get it wrong. It's like you rarely have to go pick another image for anything. And so like little things that were, you know, that made the made this work better and made it easier to implement all started happening at the same time. And so now I'm like, this thing works really good to get agents into production. And at the same time, it was working even better to recruit agents because I understand the customer problem better than most people. And I know what you've done. I know where you've spent your money. And I know what keeps you up at night. I know where you're frustrated. And I know nobody's helping you. And I know that you expect me to take your money, but I'm not going to take your money because that's not my goal. My goal is to help you win. And if I help you win, we're going to win. And with that message, we've recruited more agents in the last year than we've would than and we actually help them. Like you can say, you know, you can say you're going to do it, but you better be able to deliver it. And that you know, that's funnel pilot. We do it every we do a call every Thursday. it's incredible. I'll have an amazing team of actually humans, world-class humans that do the implementation, all leveraging AI, and they're they're the best people that I've ever had. They've all been with me 15 years for different various companies and whatnot. But it was my best people. I'm like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do it right, and we're actually gonna help people get customers because you don't they don't nobody teaches marketing. We run into the first thing you run into is You know, okay, I there's nobody sphere, repeat, referral. If you survive long enough, you know you gotta find out how do I turn a stranger into a customer? Open houses, knock doors, cold call, none, nothing anybody wants to do. We do it, have a little bit of limited success, and then we try to call and physicals are expired, or this or that, and and there's no system, there's no predictability, there's no consistency. But you gotta lead generate. And and we can do it at a low enough cost that. people can afford to to and get into a deal flow fast enough that they'll never look back. And so we build that whole machine, C R follow up, all that, and AI's just making it better. So that's been So if I want If if people are watching this and they want to come check it out and learn about the opportunity, how to partner with you, whatever, is it okay if I put the link in the show notes? Yeah, that's fine. Great. No matter what, whether you want funnel pilot for your own business or you want to talk about co-sponsor or whatever, you know, go to honeybadgercosponsor.com and there's an explainer there and you can actually watch the live presentation we do we do every Thursday there. but yeah, it's it's fun. Honeybadgercosponsor.com. It's fantastic. You should at least look at it. Like the minimum, take a look at it. If it's for you, awesome. And I think the results have been fantastic. Jay, I'm gonna go into one quick segment, then we'll wrap up. and I'll let you go. This is called the multiplier minute because if it doesn't multiply, it doesn't matter. So quick answers only. What is the best source of growth right now? Best source of growth? Ooh, that I'm not sure I'm understanding the contraction. Best source of Best source of growth? Agents agents agents who are are are can not consistently closing deals every month and they're trying to figure it out. Okay. Solving that problem. Yep. Would you say you need to get better at scripts or relationships? Relationships. Cold market recruiting or warm market recruiting? Warm. Would you rather do a a webinar or an in person event? In person event. What is the best question to start a meaningful recruiting conversation? What are you trying to do? What is the best form of leverage? This could be anywhere, domestic, like anywhere in your life. What's one of your favorite forms of leverage? My wife. Yeah, your partner, right? Like ultimately that's a very She does lot, man. She does a lot that I don't have to do. I feel you. what is the best type of agent to attract? hungry, humble, smart. Hungry, humble, smart. What is the worst type of agent to attract? Not coachable. Know it all. They know everything. Yeah. They know too much for their own good. What is your biggest pet peeve in agent attraction? people exping all over everybody. Yeah. I'll just tell you everything that you don't even want to hear. What is more important? Consistency or intensity? Consistency. Little little actions all day compounded. what is harder? Getting your first five or the next fifty? Ooh. Those are th those are both hard. I would say I would say your first fifty is hard the hardest. Okay. And it gets easier from there, right? Yeah. Because now you have now you have a tribe. Now you have a group. But if you can get to fifty, you can get to five hundred. You get to five hundred, you get to five thousand. That's why I say fifty's the the number that it w you you gotta push through to get to, but when you get there, it'll feel like you push the boulder up a hill, but after that it gets way easier. For sure. I I one hundred percent agree from that. And I've had that tattooed on my brain. You can get five people to follow you anywhere. what is one thing people should stop doing immediately? Mm. Stop being afraid of AI. I love that. That's fantastic. All right. Last question I have. If somebody were building the Jay Kinder recipe for agent attraction, leadership and growth, what are the ingredients they would have to have to make sure they got it right? Focus on adding value first is the number one goal. Solve a real problem for someone. I love that. Thank you, Jay. It's been a pleasure. I'll let you jump. If anybody wants to get a hold of Jay, we will put all of his contact information in the show notes. And don't forget to check out his new funnel. It is absolutely amazing. Thank you again, Jay. I'll see you at the can't wait to hear your talk, by the way. Looking forward to it. You're gonna like it. I'll see you. All right. Bye.