EP 22: The Workforce Gap Starts Earlier Than You Think

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I think the big thing there is if kids can't see it, they can't be it.
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And so giving them opportunities, having having like this is what this career field looks like.
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Um, well, to additive manufacturing, this is what this career looks direct to workforce.
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You are a high school diploma, you've had some CAD experience in high school, um, and you can go and you can do CAD or you can be learn to be a machine technician.
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This is a two-year.
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So you can go like down here to Dallas College, uh, and they have uh manufacturing, you know, with testing and all of that to get industry-based certifications.
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And this is a two-year, and then this is a four-year, and so they can see.
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So if I'm not sold, you know, I know I like this field, I know this is very fascinating.
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3D printing is uber fascinating and everything, but I'm not I'm not confident enough in it.
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And so, but I can see that pathway that's huge for kids and hands-on time, being able to give them at bats is super important, um, but not on a surface level.
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They're they're not interested in, you know, just like think about it.
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Do you want to do a hundred multiplication problems?
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Nope.
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Nobody wants to do that.
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So guess what?
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Nobody wants to sit and do just random hundred prints.
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Either.
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Welcome to the Additive Advantage Podcast, where we explore the people, technologies, and strategies shaping the future of manufacturing.
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I'm Nicole Dietz, podcast producer.
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I'm here with our host, Sean Anderson.
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Hey, Nicole, glad to have you here.
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And as you guys can tell, we've dragged Nicole out from behind the producer's desk, and we're putting her in the seat next to me, partially because she deserves the credit for having the whole idea around this workforce series to begin with, and also because in her role of B9 Creation, she knows many of the stakeholders and customers that we're talking to in this series, frankly, in some cases better than I do.
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So when it comes to asking questions and looking for insights, she would be the best to do it.
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Yeah, and just for clarity for you listening who maybe I have not had the chance to meet, I'm the marketing director and sales ops director here at B9 Creation.
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So I spend a lot of time interacting with customers and hearing their stories and then figuring out how to connect them to our solutions.
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Excellent.
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So for the time being, I'm gonna jump in with Sean and help out, you know, intro, outro.
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And then you might see some other B9 faces drop in here.
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So don't be surprised if you roll into an intro and it's a different voice.
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We'd love to bring in more of the staff for you guys to get the B9 staff for you guys to get to meet.
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And then let's jump into today's episode.
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Sean, could you tell us where today's episode fits into what we've been exploring in the podcast?
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Absolutely.
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So, as you guys have heard me say, we're in the midst of this series on workforce because every podcast, literally every episode we've done, I think, of additive advantage, whether it was with the technical person, an executive, policymaker, the topic of workforce came up in every single one.
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That's a term you hear a lot, but what in the heck does that really mean?
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And how do you go from student in some kind of school, and obviously we're touching all legs of the educational stool, but to productive member of an advanced manufacturing organization.
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And so today we're gonna have Christina Hitman, who, and I'm gonna steal a term that Matt Kirchner and I came up with.
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She is not a thought leader, she is an action leader.
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Yes, definitely thought leader, but she is a doer in the field of career and technical education.
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I would absolutely consider on the cutting edge and not only with great ideas, but knows how to implement those ideas in a K through 12 environment, as well as connect it to industry.
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And so when we met Christina, she was leading the CTE effort for uplift education in Texas, now has gone out and started her own firm, Pivotal Precepts, again, all about helping connect industry with education around this topic of CTE.
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So we've heard from the higher ed perspective, a little bit of the policy and community college perspective.
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And now we're going to talk about K through 12.
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And I know for many of you, if you're like me, um, you know, going onto your university campus talking to a bunch of engineering students or business students, that's actually fun.
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That doesn't scare me.
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If you said, Sean, we want you to come to this high school and talk to a bunch of, you know, 10th graders, uh, that scares me a little bit.
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But as we've heard, you know, you heard Matt Kirchner say it, you heard Brian Tandy say it, the age that these students are making decisions about what they want out of career, if we're not talking to these students until the university, it's too late.
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And we've got to engage earlier, and Christina will touch on this again a little bit, and and she's absolutely an expert in the field.
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If we want to open people's eyes to, you know, the folks that say, well, I don't know that I want to be an engineer, so I guess that advanced manufacturing STEM type stuff doesn't apply to me.
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Absolutely not true.
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But if we allow them to continue, you know, past about, you know, eighth grade with that perception, we've probably lost that person from our workforce as it relates to advanced manufacturing.
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So long answer to your question, but that's why I think getting Christina's perspective and real world experience into this series is so vital.
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I agree.
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I think that was a great setup, and I think we should listen to the episode.
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Yeah, let's dive in.
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I'm so excited to bring this episode to you.
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As I'm guessing most of you know, we're in the middle of a series on workforce.
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There have been so many conversations where that term has come up, whether we were talking to engineers that run additive labs, to plant managers, to executives.
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And rather than simply continue to use the word and not understand how to address people's concerns, our producer Nicole had the great idea.
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Let's dive in and let's talk to some experts and figure out when we think about the workforce, both challenge and opportunity as it relates to advanced manufacturing, how do we move the needle?
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And so for today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to Christina Hipman.
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Welcome to the show, Christina.
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Thank you.
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So we got to know Christina when she was leading the technology adoption effort within a K through 12 education organization.
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She's since gone on to take the crazy leap into the world of entrepreneurship and open up her own company, Pivotal Precepts.
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Um, but we've talked about you know higher education, we've talked a lot about career and technical education.
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One of the things in my time with Christina that she helped me realize is how early we have to start thinking about career.
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And so Christina brings a wealth of experience from the K through 12 side.
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And I can't wait for her to help share with you guys some of the same things she shared with me.
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Christina, I have to tell you, one of the things you told me, I think it was in our first conversation around this, and we were kind of talking about different age levels and how you engage with students.
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And you said, Sean, all roads lead to career.
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And I'd never heard anybody frame it that way before.
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What help me or help us unpack that for our viewers?
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What are students looking for from education and their future careers today?
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And and what do you mean by that statement, all roads lead to career?
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Uh well, it's a very simple shift that we should be making in education and in industry, understanding that the students that we're educating today are digital natives.
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These kids have grown up with technology in their hands.
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They've grown up getting information from everywhere.
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And um, so their training and their viewpoint and even their their outlook on life, their the, you know, they're back when we were younger and in school, you know, very few people had traveled outside, you know, to have a global mindset.
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That was really something that educators had to work hard at.
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And now the whole world is right there at their fingertips.
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And so students don't want to just hear about college.
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They don't want to, we don't just do math to do math or do, you know, do history to do history.
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They want to know, like, well, how does all this connect?
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How does it move me forward?
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Uh, how do these things apply?
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And really, it's we have a group of kids right now that are in their mid-20s to mid-30s that are requiring extra mentorship because the emphasis when they were in school was let's get these kids into college.
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Let's get these kids in the college.
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And but all roads lead to career.
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We can't just be getting kids into some college or two-year program or whatever.
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That's that's not it.
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Because if I'm in the wrong two-year program or I'm in the wrong four-year program, then like I'm in, I'm not gonna get a good career.
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I'm gonna end up switching and wasting time.
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And so we have to change our mindset starting young, like with seventh graders, upper elementary.
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Yes, we want to talk about college goingness because, you know, we want kids to understand that having a college degree in most fields means automatically more income.
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Not all fields, but most fields.
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But we can't just talk about getting to college.
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We have to talk about, well, what's the career beyond the college?
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Because if I can get a kid sold on a career pathway that is beyond college, then they're more likely to go to college and persist in college because they're sold on what comes after.
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And that's what's very important.
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And knowing, okay, I'm gonna, I'm in the right field.
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This might be hard.
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Um, I've had a lot of kids, they really wanted to go to engineering or STEM fields, and math is hard.
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Let's face it, upper level math is hard.
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And but they're so sold on the career that comes afterwards and what they're gonna get to do day in, day out, that they suffer through the hard things and they realize that C's get degrees in some cases.
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And that's okay because they're like, I'm gonna do this okay, this okay, in my world, and I'm gonna get better and better and better.
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And that C will translate to like a career and something in profession.
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So um that's really what they want to know about.
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They want to know what their options are.
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Well, as somebody who took calculus two twice, you're preaching to the choir here on math is hard.
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Um you're also uh, you know, uh there are always a few people that, you know, that would give you that practical advice about, you know, C's get degrees, or occasionally I had a D stands for done.
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Um you know, not my proudest academic moments, but uh no one, you know, another phrase that I always liked is they don't print your GPA on your diploma.
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Uh, praise the Lord for that at the University of Texas at Arlington.
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Uh, and nobody has ever asked me my GPA.
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Praise the Lord for that, too.
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Um so I'm curious, you know, you emphasize, as did Matt Kirkner when we had him on, about the importance.
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You talk about seventh grade.
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How for, and I'm gonna be honest, for somebody, you know, 53 like me, thinking, how do I go connect?
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I have what I think are some awesome career opportunities.
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How do I go connect with that seventh grader and have a conversation?
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You know, my way of describing what you just shared was what you really said is you got to have a vision, not for college, but for what comes next, right?
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So that they'll endure the, you know, two rounds of calc two or whatever their experience is.
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But how do you connect with a seventh grader around a vision like that?
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Well, really, it has to do with who they are, their their character traits, what the what they're into, what they're good at.
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So when we were in school, well, if you were good at math and science, where were you pushed?
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Engineering.
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Yeah.
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You know, oh yeah, you're a doctor, you know.
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Um there, but now there are so many different careers.
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It's looking at the day-to-day characteristics of a career and being able to connect that to a kid's life.
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So I'll give you a good example.
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Um, kids in seventh grade, young men who don't like math, uh, who typically aren't into science.
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Um and lots of times they'll say, Well, it doesn't matter, miss, I'm not gonna go to college.
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And we start talking about, well, what are you into?
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And these young men will start giving you the most detailed answers about their interests.
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Like you get them talking about soccer, they can tell you every rule, they can tell you everything.
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So that's detail-orientedness.
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And so you begin to talk to these kids.
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Okay, so you like movement, you like to be outside, and you are detail-oriented about what careers involve those things.
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I'm just I love what you just shared because the key to the whole thing is a great teacher who can recognize giftedness in her students or his students and bring it out.
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And, you know, what you are sharing about that, I believe, is true for us through our whole life.
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And it's amazing how sometimes, even as adults, how poor we are at understanding our own giftedness, we really need other people to help us see those things and point those things out.
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And I it's, you know, any of you watching can probably tell I get pretty excited when I talk to Christina because she's using things that oftentimes we might think of in the corporate world, but she's teaching people how to do this in junior high.
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And if you can help, I firmly believe if you can help a person understand what their God-given gifts and talents are, that's exactly what opens the door to the conversation you were mentioning, Christina, about okay, what are career fields where that wiring and those gifts and talents are assets?
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And um and you get them on a website, you get them on ONET online, where those sorts of things are outlined.
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And even as a teacher, you can learn.
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I had this crazy hyper young man uh one year, and he's like, I'm gonna be an orthodontist, I'm gonna be an orthodontist.
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And I was like, had him in ninth grade.
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And I can remember just shaking my head, like, I don't see you being still long enough to be, and then I had him again in tenth grade.
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It was one of those things where I just ended up teaching different courses, and then here we are in 11th grade, and we start doing correct, and sure enough, you start looking at those characteristics of what you need to be an orthodontist and a dentist.
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And that boy had every one of them.
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Wow.
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And so it's like, okay, and then so then, and I never discouraged him, but then I got on the bandwagon, you know.
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I'm like, okay, like look here, you are right.
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And I started affirming that.
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Look, you're right, you have all these things.
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And so it it but it's early.
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And I mean, even like if there's people out there that you have your own kids and and and there is, you know, third graders, fourth graders, fifth graders, you can look at those attributes and go, hey, you know, I use that in my my work.
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What you're doing right now, I use that skill in my work.
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It's on a different level, but I use that skill.
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Yeah.
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Well, and we have to, just because we have the gift or the talent, we still have to develop those, right, to be able to use those at a higher level.
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So let's make that tactical and practical for a minute.
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You know, I live in this world of advanced manufacturing, etc.
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And and people always there's this simplistic way of thinking, you touched on it a minute ago, that they're like, oh, well, I don't think my son or daughter's going to be an engineer, so you know, probably there's nothing there.
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And or they're not they hear the word STEM and they think, you know, it's all the kids with glasses that got, you know, left out of the chess club because they couldn't talk.
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And you know, you're tell me more about how we can be aware of wiring and giftedness and then connect that to conversations around whether it's technology, advanced manufacturing, STEM fields that doesn't just sound like be an engineer.
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I think the big thing there is if kids can't see it, they can't be it.
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And so giving them opportunities, having having like this is what this career field looks like.
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Um, well, to additive manufacturing, this is what this career looks like direct to workforce.
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You're a high school diploma, you've had some CAD experience in high school, um, and you can go and you can do CAD or you can be learn to be a machine technician.
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This is a two-year.
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So you can go like down here to Dallas College, uh, and they have uh manufacturing, you know, with testing and all of that to get industry-based certifications.
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And this is a two-year, and then this is a four-year, and so they can see.
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So if I'm not sold, you know, I know I like this field, I know this is very fascinating.
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3D printing is uber fascinating and everything, but I'm not I'm not confident enough in it, and so but I can see that pathway that's huge for kids and hands-on time, being able to give them at bats is super important, um, but not on a surface level.
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They're they're not interested in, you know, just like think about it.
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Do you want to do a hundred multiplication problems?
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Nope.
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Nobody wants to do that.
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So guess what?
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Nobody wants to sit and do just random 100 prints either.
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And so how do how do we do that in a hands-on, you know, type of way to where um they're getting at bats, they're strengthening those skills and what they need.
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Um, and they can have portfolios, they can collect certifications, but the flip side of that is at the industry, what I've experienced is the industry lots of times is unclear.
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And that, you know, uh, I've challenged you guys with that at B9.
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Like, you know, in my previous role, I was like, I need clarity.
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I need to know exactly how many hours my kids need.
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I need to know what CAD proficiency they need.
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I want because I want them to be at the top of the stack.
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If they're in this B9 uh program, uh when they're finished with high school and if they want to go direct to workforce, I want to be able to say, well, we work with B9, and this is what B9 has told us that they're gonna, they're proficient, and then we've done all these other things to make them a good worker for you, and they get moved to the top of the stack and get hired.
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Yeah, that you know, some of those early conversations that we had where, and I think it's a uh we we talked a little bit about just sort of the lack of shared understanding from industry, you know, what is that world of academia?
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Especially most people in industry, when I say world of academia, they think about their local college or university.
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They don't initially think about, you know, the K through 12 side.
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And it it turned on so many light bulbs for me when we started working together to and to do, you know, things like you talked about a moment ago, where instead of saying, oh yeah, this, you know, this is a an advanced manufacturing technician role, and this is the kind of equipment or this is, you know, that doesn't connect for them.
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I have to use words that relate to how the how someone who would do good at this role would be wired in this way or enjoy these things.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:48.799
Um and you know, that was a light bulb moment for me.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:21:02.160
And when you because when you're talking to a seventh grader or even a, you know, could be a senior in high school, you know, they don't really care that yes, we have this piece of measuring equipment and it's how we validate the performance of our equipment.
00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.319
And I mean, some of them maybe care about that, majority of them will not.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:16.319
But if you say, you know, if you like to build something with your hands and then be able to see with your own eyes the performance of what you built, okay, well, they can understand that, right?
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.920
I don't need to know what equipment is involved to appreciate that.
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:30.559
I'm curious, again, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make an assumption here that most of the people like me in industry are a little bit in the dark on this, and I'm gonna ask you to turn on the light bulb.
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:43.920
What does state-of-the-art K through 12 education look like today when it comes to preparing students, you know, for those hands on STEM or advanced manufacturing type of careers?
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:48.160
What where is the world of education and what's the cutting edge look like today?
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:56.160
The cutting edge looks like what it looks like in the in the workforce, in the workplace.
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:02.640
You have kids doing the same work that uh your employees do.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:20.000
And so if I'm a if I'm in the industry and um I'm using, you know, uh additive manufacturing to design jewelry that kids are designing jewelry and they're they're they're given a I think I used this example before.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.400
They're they're given a a problem-based learning.
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:29.440
Okay, you are uh well you're a department store.
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:42.000
I'm trying to like be generic as a specific as a specific department store wants to create a line of jewelry for with a target demographic of the ages uh 25 to 35.
00:22:42.400 --> 00:23:53.839
The trending metal is uh gold uh and rose gold metallic um with larger composition intricate details um and so forth and you're gonna design three you're gonna give us three design ring choices and you're gonna pitch those three choices and then based on feedback you're gonna select one and take it through the modeling and print process um that's what would happen in a in a real place of work right and it it's a little bit mind-boggling you know again it blew me away when you first described that to hear you say you know the cutting edge it's not a deep dark secret the cutting edge is make the classroom look more like the workplace right which is a little bit of a forehead slapper but I'd never thought of it that way until you said that um what are educators receptive to this or what you know coming from that world and and maybe uh well not maybe definitely understanding that better than industry does I mean is that what educators are wanting as well or is this something that you know is getting kind of pushed in from the outside what's the driving force behind it?
00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:07.920
Well it is a little disruptive but the you know when you consider traditional education it can the this model can be a little disruptive but the bottom line is that is we want what's best for kids.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:26:57.839
We want what's best for uh you know them to uh their livelihoods again you know that trajectory of how they're gonna um move through life and so those things are very important to to understand um I've mentioned to you before the CAPS network and they're right now a big driving force um and I encourage everybody listening to look them up and to get involved um but it is an understanding industry and the CAPS districts the schools that are in caps the industry them coming together and having an understanding of we're gonna teach kids how to be professionals and so when we we're gonna have professional skills durable skills they're gonna know how to communicate with you professionally and they are going to have XYZ technology skills you know so for you all it would be the 3D print cat and 3D print uh hours um usually 11th and 12th graders and and then what they ask is you know you're you have 10 projects right now you know uh is there one that you could throw to you know NDA you can generic it out um uh you you have the kids work on it in pitch and they've had kids out of the CAPS program a local government um they wanted new bus wraps and so um they went to the CAP schools and they said we would like you uh we have a marketing department but our marketing department's busy so we're we want to see what the kids can do and the students actually won the pitch to do the new city bus wraps um we have we have districts where they are doing all of the district printing and outside printing so the these these kids learn logo design you know all of the things and they're the district now is saving money because they're purchasing literally from themselves um and the kids are getting you know making portfolios and and having all this real-time work it's just really super awesome to see them uh you know being able to do real work in school so it's this notion of what's your low-level prod pro problem that you have that you're trying to solve and you throw it at kids um we had a group in my previous work we had a a group of kids that won a social media marketing campaign and they designed an entire social media marketing campaign for a band and so these kids are doing real work.
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:23.039
I love it and you use so you used a few terms in there that again for industry folks like me that may not know exactly what you mean by that you know you talk about uh problem-based learning I think most of us have probably heard the team the term project-based learning talk a little bit about the difference between the two because when you explained it to me I thought okay this is something we're missing and it's it's a key to engagement.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:24.160
Correct.
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:36.160
Project based learning um first of all I want to say there's nothing bad about project based learning because what it is it's very student driven and very skill driven.
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:53.039
But again it goes back to that do you want to do a hundred prints and just sit there and do a hundred prints so that I get my time or do I want the person the user using their brain so I don't know about you.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.079
Let's go with the use your brain model.
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:20.799
I want somebody who is going to be able to use their brain and so like uh if be able to like we said earlier detail oriented what are the skills so that when my prints don't like let's face it very few of them the first time they print are going to have a viable print like a really clean especially something that's detail oriented.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.319
And so I we did the round to it challenge.
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:39.680
So you remember the old round to it's and so they have to basically make a marketing um a marketing round to it but it has to be that 3D print but it has to be that size of a coin and so there has to be a certain amount of detail on it.
00:28:39.839 --> 00:29:02.160
Well there they're it's not going to turn out well the first time and so we want you think about things durable skills like persistence and resilience you know if if I start on something that's just a project and I get in trying to do the skill I'm like oh I just I give up I give up you know and we I've seen that thousands of times as an educator over 20 years.
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:39.440
But you flip to problem-based learning where yeah you could use that same round to it you know idea but instead I'm a company I'm coming to you with my round to it and this is my current marketing and now we want to use and we're gonna change this year to year over the next five years and this year we want it to be green and we want to make sure and I as the company am giving you information well I'm now working for somebody I'm not just doing a problem or finishing something.
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:58.880
I am now I'm working for somebody and that changes the dynamic when it comes to persistence and resilience and all of those things problem solving critical thinking all of those things that we want in our employees those are automatically engaged in that type of scenario over the other.
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.240
Now are we are we building skills in the other scenario?
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.240
Do we have like hundreds of bats?
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:15.440
Yes but what we have is we have a workforce that is coming that is very heavy on skill and and not as much on durable skills.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:22.799
And what I hear from the industry people that I've been working with is oh I can give them plenty at bats as technician.
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:34.319
I can help them become better at X skill right but I don't want to have to spend time getting them better at their communication skills and their resilience.
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:45.200
You know I can't deal with the 23 year old who's crying at their desk because you know something didn't work out that that's they don't want to you know you don't I want companies don't want to deal with that.
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:45.920
Right.
00:30:46.240 --> 00:31:49.759
And that and that occurs and and that occurs uh I have dealt with that as well it wasn't me but I have uh I have definitely dealt with that I I'm also curious you know how much of this ties back to I'll use the phrase the dopamine hit because there's no dopamine hit with completing a project that means nothing to you there's a dopamine hit with solving a problem seeing you know seeing a bus wrap that you designed driving around whatever city you live in or seeing your you know some band's social media that's got a logo in the corner that you had input on um used another word just a moment ago that I want to get you to unpack for us and that is you know people in industry often talk about the skills gap and then it's you know Matt Kirchner had a funny take he's like yeah basically can you show up on time and not be on drugs and yeah which which is a heck of a running start.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:32:05.279
I'm not saying those aren't important but you use the phrase durable skills and I think oftentimes we get into this conversation about technical skills, uh soft skills durable skills are different from both.
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.559
Tell us a little bit about what you mean when you say durable skills.
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:35.920
Well yeah so have a look that up ACTE is the driver on that and it is really working towards bringing what industry says and what education is trying to do and putting them in one big place um under this label of durable skills and really has dialed it down from kindergarten all the way to postgraduation what it looks like, what it sounds like cognitive development of those things.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:43.440
And so basically you know things that you know we just live in a different world.
00:32:43.519 --> 00:34:05.920
Again we're dealing with digital natives and so um you and I when we were growing up and some of the listeners you know we were pretty self-aware because we were dealing with people all the time and so uh like self-awareness skills reflection metacognition these these things that that we inherently were exposed to because we were on the playground you know playing kickball and having to figure that stuff out these digital natives they they don't have those necessarily a lot of them don't have those experiences and so we as educators and as industry really an education side we need to get together with industry because you know somebody puts critical thinking skills and problem solving on their resume nobody cares about that anymore duh you know you you should be able to think yes to get a job you're a college graduate congratulations they taught you to think but what is beyond that like I said one of the biggest challenges right now I mentor a good half a dozen uh 20 something early 30 somethings and persistence and resilience is just tough you know it's just tough for them um and so because when they were in school it that was they weren't pushed in that manner.
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:11.360
I mean we know they were given you showed up you got a trophy so why do I have to be resilient?
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:35.280
Yeah it's um you know those durable skills and finding ways to not only breach breach the just breach the topic and and start to have a conversation without without somebody feeling oh my gosh she thinks I'm not resilient or oh my gosh, you know she thinks I can't I my communication skills are bad.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:35:03.119
I was having a a great conversation with uh actually the lady that cuts my hair about an hour ago and we were talking about the importance of being comfortable with being bad at something and how even as adults it gets in our way of learning because you get to a certain level of proficiency in your career or a certain age and sometimes our willingness to look foolish or look like we don't know what we're doing disappears.
00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:08.639
And the problem with that is if you're not willing to look like you don't know what you're doing, you can't really try anything new.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.519
And the problem with that is the world is changing so fast.
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:18.719
If you're not trying anything new, it's only a matter of time before the things that you're good at might not be so relevant anymore.
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:30.480
And so you're you know you're talking about building in a skill that will keep these people engaged and productive in whatever happens around them, you know, for a lifetime.
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:40.559
Another phrase that you've used a lot in connection with K through 12 education that obviously as a business guy I love, but you're the first person I ever heard use it.
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.519
And I want you to unpack that a little bit for our our audience is value creation.
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:52.960
You talked about the importance of teaching the students what it is and why it's meaningful.
00:35:53.280 --> 00:36:08.559
And you know I I would have hugged you through the screen if it was possible but talk to again these assume that the most of the folks who are listening to this are probably like me before I met you in terms of all the things that I didn't understand then.
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:14.159
How do you work the concept of value creation into this K through 12 environment?
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:15.599
What does that look like?
00:36:16.480 --> 00:37:02.559
Well I think it goes back to what we were talking about early is identifying number one taking the time to have authentic discussions or scenarios like you start you start doing problem based learning in your classroom you're gonna have plenty of opportunity to have discussions right because again we're not just going through a checklist have you demonstrated this skill have you demonstrated this skill we're talking about real things that come up in the workplace there's conflict there's but I thought I did it right and I didn't do it miss I know this code is right I cannot tell you how many times I have miss I know this code is right and I'm like are you getting your message?
00:37:02.719 --> 00:39:31.920
It's not working well then your code's not right but again I'm like three than me get three people and get different eyes on it you know because that's how the workplace works and when you're in that problem based learning in that scenario the kids learn I bring something to the table here I you know I learn from the kids because you know I can't keep up as a career technical education teacher and writing curriculum like I can tell you there there's been many times where I'm like yeah I'm just not very good at this who's good at this I don't need to teach I don't need to be the one to spear spearhead that and so you know them understanding that they bring value to a scenario and that they have skills whether they're effective communicators there are kids that are really strong at communication there are kids that um are are critical thinkers uh one of the big skills that a lot of teachers don't like that is a high level skill in industry that I promote is being a questioner if you are asking questions you are trying to get something right you are plugging away are we doing this right you're constantly reflecting on progress and again if if we're doing problem based learning and having authentic conversations then it provides all that opportunity coaching that life coaching career coaching scenarios can happen in seventh grade all the way through twelfth grade because we've shifted our learning from have you acquired a skill let me check things off to list to like this is what happens and we're naming this is what happens you know Miss so and so they they don't agree with my idea okay and they just look at me I'm like okay so what are you gonna do about it and they just look at me because they're expecting me to come something to do miss I don't have my supplies today miss oh I forgot this today and I said did you really just walk into my classroom and tell me that you're unprepared would you do that for work is show up for work and go right to your boss and tell your boss you're unprepared for work today?
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:35.440
And they're like oh I'd never do that and I'm like why are you doing that with me?
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:44.079
And and just like in those that may sound kind of harsh but again in those scenarios they're like this is life.
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:48.559
Like that's what life is like being tardy is a serious thing.
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:59.280
And when you have 12th graders go into what you said earlier when you have 12th 12th graders that have senioritis or whatever and they don't want to show up to class on time I'm like third time you're fired.
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.559
And they look at me and they're like what I'm like if I were your boss you're fired.
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:19.199
Yeah I think helping them realize and it you know I'm gonna sound like an old curmudgeon when I say this but when we forget to teach things like those durable skills and the other thing I'll log I'll throw on that fire is values.
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:31.440
When students don't don't understand what values are and I don't necessarily mean my values I just mean what is the concept and what are different values you can choose from it makes it harder for them to understand who they are.
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:31.840
Yeah.
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:39.920
And then well am I a person that likes it when people don't follow through on what they tell me no.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:45.119
Okay well then be one of those people who follows through on what commitments you make to others.
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:59.360
You know but those conversations end up around you know around values topics not just oh I'm sorry Jenny let you down when she canceled plans or you know said you were gonna you could play at her house after school and then she didn't talk to you at the end of the day.
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:04.639
You know helping them connect make those connections is so powerful.
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:09.679
I couple and why they belong in a space or maybe don't belong in a space.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:24.800
So I've you know I was in a really great space uh and was really enjoying a certain type of work but one of my core values is justice and it it it just wasn't happening.
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:39.679
It it just wasn't happening in that space and I kept working and and I kept working and I kept getting more and more frustrated and I'm like I have to get out of this space because I'm just geared like I am justice oriented.
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:57.360
And so I think that being okay like them knowing like the value they bring to the table how just like their characteristics and their values how they connect into the workplace because again we're not we're not 30, 40 years ago well you're good at math so this is what you're gonna do.
00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:09.519
We're talking about whole humans and how they're gonna spend their life but also giving them permission to understand who they are what they bring to the table and sometimes it's okay to go to a different table.
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:11.360
Yeah that is so true.
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:14.800
For me that that came true I was one of those kids that was pretty good at math.
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:27.119
People are like, oh you should be an engineer okay uh and then I had a couple of internships in college and when I got a glimpse at what real engineers did I was like I don't think that's me.
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:38.639
I don't have the attention to detail and these guys are very happy to have a low level of communication that I'm not only not happy with, I'm not capable of staying quiet that long.
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:47.519
And uh you know figuring out well those things aren't aren't flaws those are features at a different table.
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:52.079
Those might be seen as flaws at this table those are features at a different table.
00:42:52.320 --> 00:43:07.840
And um you know and you probably do you probably do a lot of engineering in your work because I've started out in aerospace engineering and um I have some someone that I contract with right now with Pivotal precepts and she's like you are an engineer.
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:09.599
You just engineer different things.
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:12.960
Yep she gives you our 100% in engineering.
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:36.239
Yeah my my favorite kind of engineering is people engineering um because I can find people who are way better at the mechanical engineering than I was ever going to be but being able to spot those people is you know and figure out how do you put them into an environment where they can be successful and reach you know the pinnacle of what they're capable of those are more of the things that I'm good at.
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:54.000
So I'm gonna hit you with a tough question here right at the end because again if you think about the audience as a bunch of people like me, but they haven't all had the benefit of knowing you yet what is it that kids want today as it relates to their future in their career?
00:43:54.159 --> 00:44:14.079
You know my perception is every generation thinks the the next generation is going to be the end of the world Just because as you know, I remember when I was a kid, you know, people thought my generation would be the end of the world, and now we're a bunch of old curmudgeons, and we think the this generation, you know, like these people are how are they ever going to grow up and be functional?
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.559
Every generation always seems to figure it out.
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:27.599
But what do kids today, those you know, maybe fifth through twelfth graders, what is it that they are looking for when they think about their future in their career?
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:37.199
Well, I think one of the biggest misconceptions about this generation coming up is that they don't want to work.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.280
Is and again, I think that comes from that digital native.
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:46.559
This is the first group that's coming through that has grown up with all the things right here.
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.880
And so it appears that they just want to like be on the internet or be on their phone or whatnot.
00:44:53.199 --> 00:45:01.599
But when you sit down, the big difference is these kids do not want to waste time.
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:09.519
They do not want to waste time, they do not want to waste money, they want to do things that are meaningful, they are willing.
00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:29.519
It doesn't matter uh how bright they are, you know, they might have the ability to be an engineer or be an engineer, but go to work for a big company and go, you know what, I'm not, I don't want to be a cog in this machine and then decide to go work for a nonprofit because it has more meaning to them.
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:33.039
They're a very unique uh group of young people.
00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:44.559
And so again, showing them their opportunities, showing them like this is the truth, they need to be able to see the pathway.
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.440
They need to be sold on it.
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:49.039
These are the steps.
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.760
These are the steps that you need to take.
00:45:51.920 --> 00:46:02.800
And one of the one of the industry right now that is doing a powerful job with this is the printing industry.
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:15.760
The printing industry has identified that in the next 10 years they're gonna retire out a whole lot of people, and they do not have the people coming in.
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:29.760
So they have written curriculum, they have uh come up with internships, uh, grants, all sorts of things to promote this new printing age.
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:55.840
And um they have done a great job of just showing if you do this, if you're interested in this hands-on, if you're interested in technology, if you're interested in seeing something go from here to beginning to finish, if you're this, this, all these different things, if these are your characteristics, then you could look at these things in the printing industry.
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:05.679
And this is how you design, and this is how you operate the machines, and this and and here you can take these courses and get these certifications, and we're gonna help you get a job.
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:10.880
We're gonna give you a mentor, we're gonna intern you, and we're gonna help you get a job.
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:20.159
And that for me is brilliant because I feel that that's what industries need to do.
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:38.079
Like you all in your 3D print out of manufacturing, y'all get together and look at durable skills, look at technical skills, look at the different jobs that you have and make it very plain and then get with your school districts.
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:49.119
That's one of the things that I've had the wonderful opportunity of being able to do is as much time as I've spent in K-12, I also spent time in industry.
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:57.840
And so now I find industry coming to me and wanting pivotal precepts like help us, help, help us in this area.
00:47:58.000 --> 00:47:59.679
We know this and this and this.
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:16.079
And and because they don't have an education department or they, you know, it's a small company, and we want to connect with these schools because small to medium businesses in those problem-based learning, you know, a big company is typically not going to, you know, scale down like that.
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:26.719
Um and and that's where I'm excited in this new work is to be able to work with industries and say, okay, let's let's get together.
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:28.159
Let's talk about your skills.
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.360
What do you have?
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:33.119
Um, what are you like when you do an employee profile?
00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:35.039
There's more than this job description.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:40.320
The job description's good, but let's break this down to a personality type characteristics.
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:48.239
When you look at the employees that are successful at your company, what attributes do they have?
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:49.440
What characteristics?
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.880
Because that environment all environments are different.
00:48:53.119 --> 00:49:00.159
And so uh, and and then being able to go to the surrounding school districts and say, this is what we're looking for.
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:14.880
And so what programming do you have where these things, because CAPS, one of the things I'm gonna do a shameless plug for them because they're great people and they're doing great things, is one of the things about CAPS is it doesn't have to be in a CTE classroom.
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.440
It can be in core classrooms.
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:25.760
So a lot of their health stuff occurs in upper level bioscience classes, not in CTE at all.
00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:29.280
And they have a whole slew of stuff happening in art.
00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:37.920
And so where we kind of put on that, well, CTE, CTE, that's the cool thing about CAPS, is it's a framework, it's highly flexible.
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.679
And um I think that that is the thing is just understanding.
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:49.440
I personally think entry-level jobs that we we need to understand.
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:54.960
Having these kids are not gonna come in and work for 10 years at an entry-level job.
00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:56.159
They're just not gonna do it.
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.880
They because that's a waste of time to them.
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:29.119
Industry has to respond and and maybe have entry and intermediate, like really break down like where is growth really happening, because you know, we would spend, you know, seven years working at and really because we had to, but the key these kids can learn this stuff so fast, and after two or three years, they're gonna go on to get a master's degree, they're gonna hire Ed, they're gonna move to a different company, they're gonna move on if they don't see that picture.
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:43.599
So that's really where I feel industry um could be uh, I guess, more proactive in helping the education space is really making it clear, concrete, and as clear as possible.
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:58.480
Um, education has a lot of metrics that they have to deal with and um for their different states and um being for industry to be able to come in and go, look, it's not a heavy lift.
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:10.559
In fact, we're gonna make this easier for you because we know that you have college career uh military readiness standards, we know that you have graduation requirements, we know that you have all these things.
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:17.679
So what we're wanting to do is come in and fit into what you're already doing.
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:22.559
We know you're teaching durable skills, and and and then it's not so disruptive.
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:26.800
It's when industry says, well, this is how we do it, and so we want you to do it that way.
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:30.960
I can't tell you how many industry partners I've I've tr had to say no to.
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:33.119
Like we do we just can't do that.
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:36.719
We can't just trash everything we're doing because you have this plan.
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.679
We have to we have to get this together.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:41.519
So flexibility.
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:43.840
Well, I love it.
00:51:44.000 --> 00:52:05.519
And it sounds like if for all of our our industry friends and colleagues out there who are who know they have a problem, and I thought your example of the printing industry was was quite interesting, but when you know you have a problem, if you need help, um I'm assuming Christina's okay if we drop her contact info in the show notes.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:10.719
Um clearly this is a lady who's been on both sides of the coin and understands how to connect the two.
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:20.639
And and I, you know, I loved when you shared that you know, more and more it's industry players coming to you saying, help us build a strategy, how do we connect here?
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:21.920
You know, what do we go do?
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:29.119
And and I think we are, you know, you talk about the printing industry, you know, the airline pilots.
00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:46.719
I've I saw a fascinating program the other day about, you know, air traffic controller shortages now being attempted to be addressed by uh targeting gamers because they have the intense focus and you know and detail orientation to visual cues and and all these things.
00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:51.440
And um, you know, there there are some pretty cool cutting edge things happening.
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:53.440
And again, I'm sure Christina will be okay.
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:57.440
We'll drop her contact info uh in there for you if you've got questions.
00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:18.960
But Christina, this has been fantastic because my goal in this was to let some of the light bulbs you've turned on for me get turned on for other people and maybe have a few aha's and help them better be able to connect into the K through 12 world and see how their workforce needs can translate into real opportunities for the kids of today.
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.079
Yeah, I love that and I appreciate being here.
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:36.559
You know, as you said, um our our priority should not be looking at what we feel like they can or can't do or what they are capable of or not capable of.
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:42.559
Really what it takes is getting in there and finding out, like you just the example you just gave.
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:53.519
You know, what are their characteristics, what are their values, um, what are their skills, durable, technical, all of those things, and how do we pull them into industry?
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:58.320
But we can't do that if industry doesn't know that themselves.
00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:01.519
And so that's my challenge to you all.
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:03.360
Well, thank you for that.
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:07.119
And to all of our viewers, I I hope you enjoyed this.
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:11.280
Um, again, we'll let you know how to get in touch with Christina if you need a little help.
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:13.599
And we look forward to seeing you next time.
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:14.800
Thank you, Christina.
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:15.679
Thank you.
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:17.360
Wow, that was a great episode.
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:19.920
I love her passion for students.
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:22.400
I you I haven't seen that.
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:30.480
And you would expect that from teachers and administrations, maybe, but I've never seen anything like Christina's passion for what she does.
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:36.800
She talked quite a bit about durable skills and how they differ from technical skills.
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:38.719
Matt called them soft skills.
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:42.559
You and I have had a lot of conversations lately about durable skills.
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:46.159
From an employer's perspective, how important are those durable skills?
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:49.679
And can you actually teach them once someone enters the workforce?
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:51.119
A great question.
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:57.280
And I think this is at the heart of Matt somewhat jokingly said, well, don't be on drugs, show up on time.
00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:57.599
Yeah.
00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:00.320
Do we we will we should ask for more than that?
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.519
And oftentimes people struggle to put a finger on it.
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:09.840
But between Matt and President Tandy and Christina, it's can you interact with other humans?
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:16.480
Can you work through a for sure minor conflict, but hopefully even maybe major conflict?
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:19.519
Can you, you know, communicate effectively?
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:29.599
It's these things that, you know, in addition, obviously, to critical thinking, but these are things that we used to expect everybody showed up knowing how to do.
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:36.960
And more and more, and I don't know, you know, I had two kids who were in high school during the whole COVID thing.
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:44.559
I don't, I don't want to blame that because it's our job as adults to work around, you know, leaders are supposed to lead through whatever context gets thrown at them.
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:55.119
It gives me hope when I see people like Christina focused on K through 12 with an ear to industry who understand these skills are vital.
00:55:55.280 --> 00:56:10.639
Whether you're going into a STEM field, you know, if you want to be an engineer or you want to be a nurse or you want to be a lawyer, whatever, you're gonna need to know how to communicate, how to work through conflict, how to be part of a team, all those, and I love that phrase, durable skills, so much better than soft skills.
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:15.679
For sure, we can teach those in the workplace.
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:30.719
However, if you think about what's behind many of those skills, these are neural pathways that are much better formed far younger than 20, 22, 24, whatever age you you want to assume someone enters the workforce.
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:36.639
Ideally, these are skills we've taught in beginning in elementary school and through junior high.
00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:42.960
Certainly your relationships will be much less uh stressful if you have some of those skills.
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:49.039
And the thing that I love about the word durable versus soft is those are skills you need in every area of your life.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:51.679
That's not just something you're going to use in the workplace.
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:55.440
So for sure we can teach those skills.
00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:06.400
However, and this is getting a little bit into the, for those of you who know me, I'm an amateur psychologist in my spare time, but I think we develop limiting beliefs about ourselves.
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:08.239
It's, oh, I'm not a good communicator.
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:09.760
Well, I'm not good in groups.
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.320
Ooh, I really work better on my own.
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:23.039
Well, if I if we can teach these skills before someone has spent the last five years of that voice in their head telling themselves that, the barrier to learning is so much slower.
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:27.679
And that's one of the reasons why, you know, again, I'm answering, can we teach those when they're in the workforce?
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:28.239
Yes.
00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:29.840
Is that the best place to do it?
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:30.800
100% no.
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.360
And I think Christina did a great job making that point.
00:57:33.679 --> 00:57:34.159
I agree.
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:36.000
I'm going to jump around a little differently here.
00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:38.559
Keep you on your toes for our first interview.
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:43.199
So Christina did push back on the idea that the younger generations don't want to work.
00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:44.400
You hear that all the time.
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:49.519
They and I think that a lot of that has to do with their durable skills and what they're equipped with.
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:56.400
So as an employer, did anything she said change or challenge the way you think about the next generation in the workforce?
00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:01.199
Well, because I'm I am blessed to have two kids in this age range.
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:04.559
My son is 20 and my daughter just turned 22.
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:11.039
So I don't know if it was a surprise as much as it was a okay, mine aren't the only ones that are like that.
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:24.079
But, you know, some of the things she mentioned about how embarrassing admission here, but you know, when I graduated from engineering school, everybody was just kind of comparing starting salary offers to see who got the biggest offer.
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:26.159
That's not what this generation wants.
00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:30.480
I'm not saying they don't want money, but they are much more interested in impact.
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:43.119
And I think one of the bigger both challenges and opportunities is when I graduated from college, you just kind of assumed like I'm going to get a nice, hopefully, it's not one of the tiny cubicles, hopefully it's one of the little bit bigger cubicles.
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:47.199
And then I'm going to spend the first however many years of my career there.
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:52.000
Both my son and my daughter no interest in that.
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:54.000
And, you know, willing to work hard.
00:58:54.079 --> 00:59:04.400
I mean, you, you know, you have uh, you know, my daughter, it isn't a doesn't want to work hard, but sit me at a computer screen stuck in some cubicle in in the back of the building somewhere.
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:11.440
Their definition of impact, and and I'm gonna use a phrase that sometimes is a little squishy, but I think it's appropriate.
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:15.519
I'm gonna call it empowerment, doesn't look like that.
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:18.800
That doesn't mean they can't be productive members of the workforce.
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:27.119
But if you are my age, and this is true of every generation thinks the next generation doesn't want to work, they're gonna ruin the world, blah, blah, blah.
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:29.360
Once upon a time, everybody said that about Gen X.
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.480
You know, we watch too much TV, blah, blah, blah.
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:35.760
It really is a question of staying curious.
00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:43.679
And we've talked about curiosity as a skill a bunch of times, but we as leaders have to stay curious about what makes these people tick.
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:47.840
And that's really my challenge to folks coming out of this episode.
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:54.000
Uh, when we get a chance to summarize at the end, it's going to come back to that concept around curiosity.
00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:55.599
Yeah, I agree.
00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:00.719
Christina talked a lot about the difference between project-based learning and pro problem-based learning.
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:08.000
Do you think as an industry, do you think our industry is doing enough to give students the opportunities to work on real problems?
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:09.760
K through 12 students.
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:12.480
I think the answer is no.
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:16.400
You know, people like Christina and, you know, Matt Kirchner gave some great examples.
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:19.280
Christina's going to give some or gave some great examples.
01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:33.840
There are places starting to do it well, but by and large, we're still thinking about it the old way, which, again, for my generation, if you had said project-based learning, oh, well, we're going to work on a project.
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.559
Well, that's better than staring at this algebra book.
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:40.239
This generation, you've got to go further.
01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:44.159
And a project, they want to know why is this valuable?
01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:44.480
Yeah.
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:55.840
And it isn't that nobody, I mean, I asked that question a lot back in the day, but they want to have a problem that needs solving that is meaningful.
01:00:56.400 --> 01:01:03.199
They're much less satisfied with an abstract project that doesn't connect to the real world.
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:06.880
And this isn't rocket science.
01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:11.840
This doesn't have to be difficult, but it does require a shift in the way that you think.
01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:19.280
And, you know, it comes back to something all leaders should be leading to the needs of others, not managing from their own needs.
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:28.639
If you will, you know, back to be curious and seek to understand their needs, it's really not that hard to make the shift, but it's it's an important shift.
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:29.679
Yeah, I agree.
01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:34.320
And I see the shift happening more in at the university level.
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:43.599
You know, we have programs here with our, you know, schools that we work with, university level ones, but I've not seen before Christina said anything, I've not seen that in the K-12.
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:44.880
So I agree fully with you.
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:49.440
So Christina ended the podcast with a challenge to the industry.
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:52.480
What do you think manufacturers should actually do with that?
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:57.760
Well, I love, and it's one of the things I like about Christina, but I love that she put that challenge out there.
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:02.639
She always tries to end a meeting or an interaction with a, so what do we do next?
01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.760
And you know, it's part of why she's so good at what she does.
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:13.840
I'm gonna repackage it a little bit because I think it it comes back to it comes back to curiosity.
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:26.159
So if we want to have the workforce we say we need, I would package it as, you know, you're gonna have to engage, listen, and then take action.
01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:32.639
And what I mean by that, again, I'm just repackaging what Christina said, but you've got to engage.
01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:42.000
You can't sit at home, watch a news report about the school board meeting and just complain about why they're not doing anything that produces the durable skills you need.
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:45.519
You've got to go get engaged, meet the people.
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:48.320
You know, Matt stressed this, President Tandy stressed this.
01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:54.559
You know, hopefully, if you've listened to these episodes or watched these episodes, that message has come through loud and clear.
01:02:54.800 --> 01:03:07.760
But then listen is so important because the the, I'll I'll use the word gap between the world that, you know, a business leader lives in or a technical leader lives in, and the world that an educator lives in.
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:13.199
You know, Christina pointed out, you know, we might say as industry, well, just do XYZ.
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:18.639
Well, there are all kinds of standards and things that they don't have the option to just throw out the window.
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:19.039
Yeah.
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:21.760
And I think sometimes in industry we're a little bit ignorant.
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:24.880
We have the same things, we just don't understand what they are in education.
01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:35.440
Whether it's GMP manufacturing processes or ISO certification, they have equivalents of that in education, that they can't just throw out the curriculum or change the focus on this.
01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:42.079
Or so you got to get in there and listen to what is going on in their world and then act.
01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:44.800
Figure out how we can help them.
01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:57.119
How could you fit this concept of durable skills into these different standards and frameworks that you have to educate against and, you know, taking action, meaningfully partnering.
01:03:57.360 --> 01:03:59.440
Our jobs are hard, their jobs are hard.
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:02.159
Frankly, I wouldn't trade my hard for their hard.
01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:08.800
But they need a partner that doesn't just come with a list of things that we're kind of mildly annoyed they don't do.
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:14.079
They need a partner that will help figure out, okay, well, so you want to do problem-based learning.
01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:20.800
Can you give me some problems and then collaborate with me to reframe them in a way that's appropriate for eighth graders?
01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:21.360
Right.
01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:25.519
Just saying, yeah, here's a list of four bullet points that they need a partner.
01:04:26.559 --> 01:04:34.239
So I think as manufacturers, we have to be willing to go, you know, do that, engage, listen, and then act.
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:41.440
And it does come back to curiosity because you have to, you have to be curious enough about what does their world really look like?
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:43.039
Why aren't they doing this?
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:51.760
But then ask that question from a genuine desire to understand, helpfully, or hopefully, probably after you built a little bit of emotional bank account with that person.
01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:57.519
I wouldn't start with that question, but and say, you know, do you think these are best practices?
01:04:57.599 --> 01:05:12.559
And what are the barriers in the way from you guys implementing those and asking genuinely with a desire to understand and help, as opposed to just, well, I'm gonna use the Socratic method to help this person see how bad they're missing the mark.
01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:17.920
That is not gonna produce the results any of us are after, back to the whole durable skills conversation.
01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:23.519
So, you know, really seeking to understand what makes them tick, what makes the students tick.
01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:44.480
Because if I'm convinced, uh, I was a little bit convinced of it before we started this series, and now I'm wholly convinced that we are losing huge numbers of people from the kind of STEM advanced manufacturing potential workforce because of decisions they're making in sixth grade.
01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:44.960
Yeah.
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:49.360
Based on when somebody asked you when you were in sixth grade what you wanted to do when you grow up, what did you say?
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:50.480
Unicorn tamer.
01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:50.880
Right.
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:53.360
You don't have any perspective in sixth grade, or I didn't.
01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:53.760
Yeah.
01:05:53.920 --> 01:05:58.960
Uh I always said engineer because that but that was because I didn't have any idea what engineers really did.
01:05:59.039 --> 01:05:59.280
Yeah.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:15.840
And I got into almost graduating from college before I realized I don't know if I want to be an engineer, but we have to help them broaden their horizons and see how their gifts and talents can fit into a wide variety of things.
01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:18.239
Exposure is so powerful.
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:23.679
And the, you know, the point you made right off the bat about Christina, you can tell her heart is in it.
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.760
This isn't just, you know, an educated woman with lots of theories.
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:36.480
Her heart is in it to get in there with the teachers and the students and the industry players and help them succeed together.
01:06:37.039 --> 01:06:44.000
It was interesting that, you know, there's an old saying, nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care.
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:47.360
And that couldn't be more true in this case.
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:47.840
Yeah.
01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:49.440
Absolutely.
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:54.159
So I do this from time to time to Nicole, so she won't be thrown off at all by this.
01:06:55.280 --> 01:07:05.360
But someone who studied marketing in college ended up in an I just feel like you're a little bit of a case study for what we're talking about here.
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:06.400
That's fine.
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:17.119
Ended up in a, you know, advanced manufacturing, STEM-related, whatever, would have been really easy for you to say, well, pff, you know, I'm not an engineer or I'm not, you know, a software person.
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:19.920
I don't have any interest in B9 creations.
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:24.639
Why were you open or interested in potentially working in this field?
01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:28.480
Yeah, I think curiosity was a big part of it.
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:35.519
I had also kind of previously in a former life worked in, you know, finance, which to me wasn't thrilling.
01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:38.719
And maybe I didn't understand enough about myself to know why.
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:43.440
But I just knew that I wanted to work somewhere that had a big future.
01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:46.400
And in order to do that, I needed to work in emerging technology.
01:07:46.559 --> 01:07:50.320
And at the time, that could have been AI, you know, drones.
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:51.119
I didn't know.
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:55.599
Had the opportunity to intern and interview here and landed on 3D printing.
01:07:55.679 --> 01:08:01.039
And I never would have imagined I could have technical conversations, even though I'm not an engineer.
01:08:01.199 --> 01:08:02.719
I barely passed algebra.
01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:04.480
I have never taken chemistry.
01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:05.920
I don't know how I got away with that stuff.
01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:07.920
Well, we got into true confessions there.
01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:12.639
Did but I yeah, curiosity really, I think was the biggest thing.
01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:18.399
And just looking for a brighter future for myself because the company had such a bright future.
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:18.880
Yeah.
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:20.640
Well, I appreciate you sharing that.
01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:24.399
And I hope that is an encouragement to all of you business leaders.
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:32.319
Again, it's super easy to go to the, you know, advanced manufacturing or 3D printing club on a university campus.
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:36.000
We've got to get out there and help bring some exposure.
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:38.560
Not, hey, do you love STEM?
01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:40.000
Wrong question.
01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:46.640
Because a lot of these kids, by the time they're in high school, if they don't, you're probably not even in the room with them.
01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:48.560
You're going to have to go get into different rooms.
01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:58.239
We're going to have to go be curious in different places to engage enough people to address the workforce needs that, you know, the folks we've had in this series have so clearly articulated.
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:01.439
What I hope you take away, it is a challenge.
01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:08.079
It is going to require all of us getting outside of our comfort zones, but this is absolutely an addressable need.
01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:13.600
It just takes a little engagement, listening, and action on our part.
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:14.079
Yeah.
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:19.439
And I think there are opportunities out there everywhere, especially when you're in advanced manufacturing.
01:09:19.600 --> 01:09:24.319
I think we have three different K through 12 groups coming in some fashion in October.
01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:25.279
And they're all different.
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:27.359
They're all from different schools, different school districts.
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.000
So there's an opportunity for that exposure.
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:31.760
You just have to say yes.
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:33.760
You just have to say yes.
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:42.159
And for sure, one of the biggest takeaways of this conversation is that the workforce challenge doesn't start when somebody applies for a job or when you post a job.
01:09:42.399 --> 01:09:45.199
Industry needs to be playing a role much, much earlier than that.
01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:58.560
Christina did a great job highlighting the importance of helping students get exposed and see opportunities available to them, but also giving them the opportunities to solve real problems and develop those durable skills alongside the technical skills.
01:09:58.720 --> 01:10:01.600
I think her challenge to industry is an important one.
01:10:01.840 --> 01:10:13.199
If we want better prepared people entering our organizations, we need to be clear about what we actually need and then be willing to engage and partner with educators and students to help build.
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:16.159
Christina, thank you so much again for joining us here.
01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:23.199
And I have a hunch that some of these folks you've just seen may end up back together in a group podcast format.
01:10:23.359 --> 01:10:28.640
This conversation has been pretty stimulating and I bet we haven't heard the last on this topic.
01:10:29.039 --> 01:10:29.600
I would agree.
01:10:29.680 --> 01:10:33.039
And you know, Christina, we're going to throw her email in the show notes.
01:10:33.279 --> 01:10:36.720
So if you want help with this, this is her consulting firm.
01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:37.680
This is what she does.
01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:39.439
So I would I would say reach out.
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:40.399
Absolutely.
01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:46.479
If you are in industry saying, oh my gosh, I get it, but how do I go engage?
01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:49.840
And and, you know, you're looking for someone to help.
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:51.840
Christina's a tremendous asset.
01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:53.199
Couldn't recommend her highly enough.
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:58.000
Thanks again for joining us for this episode of the Additive Advantage Podcast.
01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:03.520
If you enjoyed today's conversation, be sure to follow the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:07.840
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01:11:08.079 --> 01:11:13.600
Until next time, keep building, keep learning, and keep finding your additive advantage.