Down Under Self-Checkout, Ellen Greenberg, Half Hangit Maggie & “Bring A Gun!”

WEBVTT
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The following podcast contains mature subject
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matter, adult themes, and may also contain profanity.
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Hello Absurdians, hello and welcome to the show.
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The show of course is called The Absurd. It's
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a good time. It's everywhere you want to be.
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Everywhere you want to be. That's Mel. And more.
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That's Mel. It is Mel. Hi Mel. Hi. How are you?
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I'm great. Are you? Yeah. Good. I can never say
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that without laughing. I wonder why. Because
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you can be honest. You can say, you know, whatever.
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You know, I accidentally kicked my baby toe against
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the table leg. Not today. No. Not today. Remember
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when you accidentally caught your ankle on my
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rocking chair? Yeah, sure do. Hilarious. That
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was a good time. Uh -huh. Yeah. Glad you moved
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it for me, though. I appreciate that. Well, I
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didn't move it for you because I had done the
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same many times. Okay. So you did it for yourself.
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Yeah. Okay. Well, I am the one who lives here.
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That should be first and foremost. Yeah. So,
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Coles Notes, you had a good weekend? Yeah, not
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too bad. Fun? Not too bad. Went to Rural Roots
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on Saturday night. Have you been there before?
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Yeah, once or twice. Yeah, you've been your own
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mug. Once or twice. Hey, turn the sounds off
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your phone. Yeah, okay. Shut your bio. You're
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right. I will. I forgot to. But, yeah, me and
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my friend Christine went down and we had a...
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Had a great time. Did you now? We did. That's
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good. Yeah, I think so. It gets a little blurry
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partway through. I get it. Was there anything
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else on the weekend that was noteworthy? I had
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the day to myself on Sunday. That's noteworthy.
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And much needed. Let me tell you. Kids included?
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Like they were out? They were gone too. Beauty,
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eh? Yeah, all day. Maddie and Sam are still there.
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Yeah, they're still there. They're good. They're
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all right though. Yeah. They're all right. They're
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good snuggle buddies. They do their own thing.
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Yeah. Yeah, sweet. So I watched TV like all day.
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I did absolutely nothing on Sunday. I was pretty
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hung. So. Yeah. It worked. It worked at my. Is
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that hung or hanged? Hanged. I started watching
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a new series. Oh. called uh kara put me onto
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it called sharp objects okay amy adams you know
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the actor adams amy adams i know that name i
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just can't she's been in a bunch of stuff like
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she's not you know not a young one she's like
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i think 51 or 52 so she's been in the game a
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while i want to see now it's good though um but
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the tv system i used was cutting off episodes
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Oh. Like, it would all of a sudden, mid -scene,
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stop and go to the next episode. I'm like, you
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bastards. Oh. So I was left with no alternative
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but to drop anchor in Pirate Bay, if you know
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what I'm talking about. Oh, okay. You know what
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I'm talking about? Yeah. So I'll resume later.
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Cool. I just binged. So yesterday, in my state
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of disarray, I watched The Testaments, which
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is... You've heard of The Handmaid's Tale. Yes,
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of course. It's like seven years in the future.
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Oh. And it's still going on, but it's from the
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story of, did you watch it? Did you watch Handmaid's?
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I did, and I need to watch it again. I actually
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bookmarked it. So June's daughter. I don't remember
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jack of it. She was taken, right, in the very
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beginning. Right. And, like, the whole part of
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Handmaid's... Well, not the whole part, but a
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big part of it was she was trying to get her
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daughter back. Yeah. And, anyway, her daughter's
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still there. And she's still trying to get her
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out, but it's now from her daughter's point of
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view. Now, was The Testament, was it also written
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by Margaret Atwood? Or was it... That, I don't
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know for sure. Hang on a second. Hey, Echo. Volume
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level seven. Echo. Was The Testaments written
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by Margaret Atwood? Yes. The Testaments by Margaret
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Atwood was written by Margaret Atwood. Wow. Thanks
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for that. So it wasn't written by somebody else
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by Margaret Atwood. That's weird. Oh, that's
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interesting. I read Handmaid's Tale forever and
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ever ago. Oh, you read it? I'd never read it.
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But I wasn't aware of The Testaments. I need
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to watch it again because when I first watched
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it, I don't know if you noticed this, but someone
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else I talked to did. I found it very dark. And
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I mean literally. Like the lighting in the show
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was not brilliant. Right. So I need to watch
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it again. I think a bunch of that was filmed
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in Cambridge too. Yes, it was. Yeah. That's cool.
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It's a great series. Like great. horrifying series
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but so well done yeah and i i loved it for what
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it was right what was the saying under his eye
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yeah under his eye yeah yeah blessed be the fruit
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may the lord open oh god yep it's so much what's
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going on in the stage i know that and that's
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why i said it was so terrifyingly like Done really
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well. Yeah. What did I say? Words. Well, no,
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I get it. I mean, it turned out to be rather
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accurate. I mean, it was written quite a long
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time ago. Yeah. But there's more and more like
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the hardcore Christian nationalists in the States
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that are more about, no, no, women should be
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about making children. They shouldn't be out
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working and, you know. yeah well i you know i'm
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not an expert but i kind of think women are human
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and they should have they should have free will
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and free choice if they don't want to have children
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right don't yeah you know yeah i found like handmaid's
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tale was very um oh what's the word like i was
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very tense when i watched it like it was it was
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a lot it was a lot to take in but i was like
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hooked yeah testaments is good but it doesn't
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have that same like draw you in where you're
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like yeah it's different but very very good so
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that's that's what i binged yesterday well i
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don't doubt the show also resonates more with
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women sure yep No question. As a man, it certainly
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resonated with me too, but just not in the same
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way. That's right. Yeah, I need to watch it again.
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Did I tell you that I watched the show The Lincoln
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Lawyer? Oh yeah, I watched that too. I binged
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the hell out of it. Yeah, that was good. It was
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a great show. Yeah, I watch that when I don't
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know what else to watch. Like I still, like I
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haven't finished it. Oh, okay. But if I just
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want to put something on and... I can watch it,
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like, if the kids are around. Yeah, yeah. I can
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put on that. Like, it's not too bad. Yeah, they're
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doing a season five right now. It's not as good.
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And it took me forever to realize that that's
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Nev Gamble in the show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You didn't
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know that. It didn't click right away. Oh, okay.
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So I asked Kara who's from and lives in Guelph.
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I said, do you know Nev Gamble? Because Nev Gamble's
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from Guelph. Oh, is she? Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't
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know that. And she goes, well, I think she grew
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up in the same neighborhood. I'm like. Yeah,
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but you know her, right? And she goes, well,
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no. I'm like, what are you talking about? You're
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both from Guelph. Like, how can you know? Uh
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-huh. She didn't. That's like when people find
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out I'm from Newfoundland. They're like, oh,
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yeah, so -and -so. Do you know so -and -so? Yes.
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You know Hank? Yes, definitely. Hank McAllister?
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Yeah. I just made that up. That's not a Newfie
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name, but anyway. Baloney. Yeah. McAllister?
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How about McAllister? McAllister? How about McEwan?
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I have no idea. McDuff. Why are we with mix?
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Well, isn't everybody in Newfoundland like Irish
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or Scottish? Yeah, but not really. Oh, okay.
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How about Dave Brown? That sounds more of an
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oofy name. Yes, thank you for asking. My weekend
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was rather uneventful. I did go out Saturday
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night. I won't say where, just in case the owner
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of the place is listening. Why? I'm getting to
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that. Oh. But you remember how I said last week
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that I'm getting closer and closer to being done
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with drinking. Yes. So I obviously, I hadn't
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drank like for a week. And I went out Saturday
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during the day. I'm like, okay, should I have
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even a drink tonight? And I really was unsure.
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And more and more I'm like, you know what? It's
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beer that's bringing me down. Fair. Yep. Because
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it's so heavy. It's so much. And, you know, it
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gets a lot of volume. Yeah. And I'm like, you
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know what? Then all of a sudden I'm like, wait
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a second, Rod. You like whiskey. Ah. Way fewer
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calories. Mm -hmm. Immeasurably fewer carbs.
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Actually, none, really. So I went and I thought,
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well, I'm going to get a Diet Pepsi with my meal
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because I'm not that hardcore where I can only
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drink whiskey with my meal. Mm -hmm. And I'm
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like, I'll have, after I was done with my dinner,
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I'm like, what do you have for rye? Right, not
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scotch, not Irish whiskey, not Canadian whiskey,
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but rye. So they really didn't have one, but
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they had one. It was called Collingwood. I think
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it was a blended whiskey from Collingwood, Ontario.
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So I said, okay, I've never had it, but I'll
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try it. And she goes, how do you want it? I'm
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like, just on ice. And she brings it. it was
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like four fingers dude it was like four ounces
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in my glass wow i'm like is this the friend's
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pour or what she gives me a little wink wink
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uh -huh and i'm like okay fine so i sipped away
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at it you know and um it was almost done and
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she uh comes back and she goes what do you think
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about it's not bad you know starts off nice no
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bite though and i if you're a whiskey drinker,
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you want a bit of a bite at the end. You want
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a bit of a burn. She goes, well, would you like
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another? I'm like, yeah, okay. I should grab
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my glass. It wasn't quite empty. And she goes,
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I'll just get you a new glass. So she comes back,
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another, another, like four fingers. I'm holding
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up my four fingers stacked together of whiskey.
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And I'm like, Jesus. So when I left, standing
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outside and I'm like, I got a pretty solid buzz
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going on. Because I can drink whiskey very well.
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Like, I can hold it pretty solidly. And, you
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know, because that's like six shots. Right? Damn.
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Six or seven shots. And then I came home. And
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remember I told you I only had one beer left
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after that. I gave you mine last week. Yeah,
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I don't have another one now. That's fine. Yeah,
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it's gone. But then I woke up Sunday morning
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feeling fantastic. I stayed up till 3 .30 in
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the morning Saturday. Well, like not constantly
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drinking. Yeah. But, you know, digging it. And
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then I got up at like 9 Sunday morning. And I'm
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like, I feel great. But if that had been beer,
00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:14.799
if I'd have had like five pints of beer, I'd
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have felt like... Dog poop. Yeah. So this might
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be, I'm still not going to increase my drinking.
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At all. But this will be your drink of choice.
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.679
Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good move.
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But now I don't have any whiskey at home here.
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Which is okay, but I'd like to get some more.
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That's the end of my weekend story. I don't remember
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going home. saturday night i remember being there
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and i had a great time sitting like i sat for
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most of the night too and then yeah a little
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bit Other than when you get up to go get another
00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.500
drink. That was pretty much it. So Rural Roots
00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:03.820
had their big anniversary party. Oh, yeah, right.
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:06.899
So they had bands all day and they opened up
00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:10.879
the whole big back patio and stuff. And my new
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neighbors were there. So we were chatting with
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:16.860
them for most of the night. And then we went
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on the dance floor for like two or three songs
00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:24.659
at the very end. Yeah. And then next thing I
00:13:24.659 --> 00:13:27.259
know, I'm home. I don't remember getting up.
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At this point, though, do you know how you got
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.639
home? We walked. Oh. Like, I remember walking.
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I do remember walking home. Yeah. But I don't
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remember the walk home. Yeah, I got you. Do you
00:13:37.539 --> 00:13:39.480
know what I'm saying? I do. And then I was at
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my friend's house for a little bit, Christine's
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house. And then I walked home from her place.
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Yeah, I don't remember that. That was at, like,
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1 o 'clock in the morning. I despise long walks
00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.759
when I'm drunk. Oh, my God. I mean, it's good.
00:13:55.370 --> 00:13:58.129
It's a good way to get you sobered up some. Mm
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-hmm. And probably helps you with sleep and reduces
00:14:00.669 --> 00:14:04.029
hangover. Yeah. But I hate it at the time. I'm
00:14:04.029 --> 00:14:06.990
like, I'm tired. Somebody carry me. Yeah. Nobody
00:14:06.990 --> 00:14:09.549
ever does. I think I went to bed somewhere around
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1 .30. Yeah. Something like that. I think I made
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some toast. Ooh. Very English of you. Yeah. Did
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you put butter on it? That's very Newfie, too.
00:14:19.210 --> 00:14:21.669
Well, it's because Newfoundland's British. Well,
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not anymore, but, you know. Same kind of thing.
00:14:24.850 --> 00:14:27.210
Ever had beans on toast? That's very British.
00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:32.269
It's good. Okay. Just in case anyone is shocked,
00:14:32.450 --> 00:14:35.289
we're both really hungry. Yeah, we are. Because
00:14:35.289 --> 00:14:38.570
we're talking about food. And, yeah, we're hungry.
00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:42.419
So before we begin, I have a little bit of a
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:46.019
tidbit of absurd. It's not really absurd. It's
00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:51.740
actually quite amazing. So South Korean women
00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:55.940
are projected to become the first population
00:14:55.940 --> 00:15:00.500
in recorded human history to cross an average
00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:07.039
life expectancy of 90 years old by 2030. A threshold
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:10.019
that researchers at the turn of this century,
00:15:10.299 --> 00:15:15.500
so not 1900, but 2000, considered impossible
00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:21.179
for any group of people to reach. So an average
00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:25.539
lifespan of 90 years. That's pretty decent. Yeah.
00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.200
I mean, as long as they're good. As long as they're
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:29.899
good, yeah. Like, you know, if you've got nine
00:15:29.899 --> 00:15:34.159
IV drips in you and... People have to rub your
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:38.139
bedsores. That's probably not awesome. I wasn't
00:15:38.139 --> 00:15:40.139
sure where you were going with that. Oh, come
00:15:40.139 --> 00:15:47.080
on. So, Mel. Yeah? It's time for you to... I
00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:49.220
mean, it's your turn to start this week. Okay.
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:51.620
How do you feel about starting? I'm going to
00:15:51.620 --> 00:15:54.519
do it. Is it bright enough in here for you? Oh,
00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:58.259
yeah. Well, there's a light on my tablet. I'm
00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:00.580
just wondering. It'd be cheap. They have lights
00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:05.529
on tablets now. While we're young. I will be
00:16:05.529 --> 00:16:07.950
saying a cuss word throughout this story. A cuss
00:16:07.950 --> 00:16:10.409
word? A cuss word. I like it. All right. Okay.
00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:13.929
Just FYI, everybody. Ooh. What is that? Fuck
00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:19.870
no. Well, it is, actually. FYI stands for. I
00:16:19.870 --> 00:16:21.789
can come up with a bunch. We won't do it now.
00:16:22.889 --> 00:16:30.870
Okay. Ready? Yeah. F your isotoners. Those are
00:16:30.870 --> 00:16:35.200
gloves. All right. All right. Sorry, go ahead.
00:16:35.779 --> 00:16:38.960
When Annalise Holland was told she could die
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.259
within the next year, she celebrated. It was
00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:45.000
a really happy thing. When you've been sick for
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.120
such a long time, it becomes something that's
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:50.159
not so scary. It sounds strange, but it's incredibly
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.620
empowering. Annalise or Annie, to her friends
00:16:53.620 --> 00:16:56.120
and family, have been approved for voluntary
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.870
assisted dying in South... australia and will
00:16:59.870 --> 00:17:04.210
end her life in months the grim details is a
00:17:04.210 --> 00:17:07.650
stark contrast to annie's warm personality the
00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:10.410
26 year old from adelaide is committed to using
00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:12.829
her remaining days to have frank conversations
00:17:12.829 --> 00:17:15.710
about what end -of -life care looks like for
00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:18.769
for young australians if i really think about
00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:22.019
it at night it's kind of a It kind of fucks with
00:17:22.019 --> 00:17:24.500
me, she admits. We don't know what happens when
00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:26.880
we close our eyes. So I'm a little scared in
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.720
that sense. But quickly, Annie is back to her
00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.299
lighthearted self. I'm dying, she laughs. We
00:17:32.299 --> 00:17:35.460
need to talk about it. Voluntary assisted dying
00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.400
is currently accessible in every state and territory
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.220
in Australia, except for the Northern Territory.
00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:45.019
This process gives eligible adults with advanced
00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:49.420
incurable illness the opportunity to request
00:17:49.420 --> 00:17:53.000
medical assistance to enter life. While laws
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.779
differ slightly between jurisdictions, patients
00:17:55.779 --> 00:17:59.079
only have access to VAD, that's the short term,
00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:01.700
if they are living with a condition that is likely
00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:05.180
to cause death within 6 to 12 months, according
00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:08.690
to two specially trained doctors. Annie has already
00:18:08.690 --> 00:18:11.329
chosen the date she wishes to die but she has
00:18:11.329 --> 00:18:14.289
decided not to reveal it publicly. The most important
00:18:14.289 --> 00:18:17.069
thing is protecting my family she says. I went
00:18:17.069 --> 00:18:18.910
through this with one of my gorgeous friends
00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:21.130
and I saw the outcome of what happens when the
00:18:21.130 --> 00:18:24.359
public knows. It was messy. A horrible way to
00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:27.279
go. Annie has known for years that she will never
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.299
reach old age. She has battled chronic illness
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:33.680
since childhood. But at 18, she was diagnosed
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:38.779
with a rare condition called autoimmune autotomic
00:18:38.779 --> 00:18:47.299
gallinopathy. AAG for short. Causes the immune
00:18:47.299 --> 00:18:50.769
system to attack. the nervous system. And although
00:18:50.769 --> 00:18:53.930
it's not always terminal, Annie says by the time
00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:56.589
she was diagnosed, doctors told her the damage
00:18:56.589 --> 00:18:59.869
to her body was already severe. At that point,
00:18:59.869 --> 00:19:02.089
my suffering was so much more and I'd become
00:19:02.089 --> 00:19:04.750
such a shell of myself that I realized quality
00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:08.789
is so much more than quantity, she says. Annie
00:19:08.789 --> 00:19:11.450
has been living with this very rare autoimmune
00:19:11.450 --> 00:19:14.630
condition for years, suffering in pain and having
00:19:14.630 --> 00:19:17.759
to be fed through a tube. Annie says she lives
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.339
in agony, enduring more than a dozen injections
00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:23.180
a day for pain relief and vomiting constantly.
00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:27.720
My goodness. I probably spend 17 hours a day
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:30.799
in bed or on the couch. Soon, I'll have my teeth
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.160
removed, she adds, noting her jaw is slowly dissolving.
00:19:35.220 --> 00:19:42.950
Annie is fed intravenously. but says she is currently
00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:46.210
using the last vein accessible after others have
00:19:46.210 --> 00:19:49.990
become infected or blocked. If I get a clot in
00:19:49.990 --> 00:19:52.210
there, there's no way to feed me, and basically
00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:54.549
I will die through starvation, she explains.
00:19:55.569 --> 00:19:58.710
Deciding to access voluntary assisted dying would
00:19:58.710 --> 00:20:01.130
have seemed unusual, even for Annie, just a few
00:20:01.130 --> 00:20:03.750
years ago. I used to be one of those people who
00:20:03.750 --> 00:20:06.529
was actually against it. I wasn't until I got
00:20:06.529 --> 00:20:08.829
sick that my views on it completely changed.
00:20:09.329 --> 00:20:12.220
Annie says she's only realized that realized
00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:15.240
assisted dying was an option when she met lily
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.660
tai a 23 year old who also suffered from aag
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:22.140
who ended her life just months after south australia's
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:24.640
voluntary assisted dying plans came into effect
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.940
in 2023 we had just the most beautiful friendship
00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:31.119
at the time and spent nearly every day together
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.940
i pinky promised her that i'd do anything she
00:20:33.940 --> 00:20:36.099
wanted me to do so i held her hand as she went
00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:39.980
underwent vad She was so ready and so brave.
00:20:40.299 --> 00:20:43.180
Last year, Annie suffered sepsis after a major
00:20:43.180 --> 00:20:46.220
surgery and needed to be resuscitated. I said
00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:48.380
to my dad, I've had enough. I can't do this.
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:51.160
After initially saying she was scared, Annie
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.440
was giving up. Her dad ultimately backed the
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.279
decision to access VAD. He came and sat on my
00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.619
bed and we burst into tears, she said. When you're
00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:02.059
unwell, it just doesn't affect you. It affects
00:21:02.059 --> 00:21:04.859
your whole family. While admitting there's not
00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:07.220
a lot of time left, Annie is determined to make
00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:09.640
the most of it. She has put together a bucket
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:12.660
list. Her twist on a bucket list of things she
00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:14.880
wants to experience or accomplish before she
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:17.960
dies. That includes a wedding, which she celebrated
00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.640
earlier this year. Putting on a wedding dress
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:22.759
and celebrating the moment with her loved ones
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:26.000
has been one of her dreams. Annie is also hoping
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.950
to witness a birth and hold a newborn baby. I'm
00:21:29.950 --> 00:21:32.190
okay with dying, but the bit that gets me is
00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:33.990
the fact that I've always wanted to be a mom.
00:21:34.329 --> 00:21:36.690
All my friends and girls my age have babies,
00:21:36.750 --> 00:21:39.609
and I can't do that. One of the first things
00:21:39.609 --> 00:21:42.589
on her fuck it list was to see herself in a wedding
00:21:42.589 --> 00:21:45.829
dress. Also on Annie's list is a celebration
00:21:45.829 --> 00:21:48.869
of life instead of a funeral. She has already
00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:51.049
put together the playlist, which includes songs
00:21:51.049 --> 00:21:54.549
by Ali Allen and the Beatles and Over the Rainbow.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.519
Annie says she's hoping to document the process
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.980
of dying to help others considering the same
00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:02.579
path. She says she hopes changes are made in
00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:04.700
the future, including more discussions around
00:22:04.700 --> 00:22:07.900
Voluntary Assisted Dying with patients. Hmm.
00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:13.619
So, yeah. What are your thoughts on that? That's
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:17.359
what I was going to ask you. Well, I'm all for
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.420
it. Yeah. Like, you should have to go some, you
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:25.299
know, there has to be some parameters. some checks
00:22:25.299 --> 00:22:30.160
and balances to it of course yeah um but it's
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:36.079
your life you know um and for like her life sounds
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.599
horrible it does yeah that sounds horrible so
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.180
somebody asked her well you should not do that
00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:45.180
you should have to spend the next 30 40 or 50
00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:48.640
years suffering like that yeah no then it's like
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.720
the abortion thing if you're not for it that's
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:54.880
fine don't do it don't do it but don't tell other
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:57.400
people that they can't because you don't agree
00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:00.099
with it that's right that's arrogant yep yeah
00:23:00.099 --> 00:23:03.539
that's exactly how i look at it yeah and i'm
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:07.920
not you know um i can't say for like well i mean
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.640
there's a reasonable shot that if i was like
00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.220
my first memories of life are in a hospital yeah
00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:20.720
and i would much prefer to not make those my
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.240
last memories that's right they gotta mean okay
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.279
i'm going in for a tooth surgery oh just kill
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.200
me then because i'll be in the hospital like
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:30.299
i don't mean that but i mean you know if you're
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:33.940
if you've got something you know terminal and
00:23:33.940 --> 00:23:36.759
withering and you know you're just going to basically
00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:41.599
fall apart yeah you're alive but are you living
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:46.779
yeah and You know, the only part that might bother
00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:49.319
me, well, would bother me, would be how it affects
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.660
others. Right. But I have to believe that, like
00:23:52.660 --> 00:23:58.059
this woman's case, you know, being really, really
00:23:58.059 --> 00:24:02.119
ill also affects them. Mm -hmm. You know? Mm
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:06.819
-hmm. So what are your thoughts? Pretty much
00:24:06.819 --> 00:24:10.200
the same, right? Like... Like you said, as long
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.539
as there's checks and balances. But if you're
00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:16.460
living in pain like that, I don't have a problem.
00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:19.579
And again, it's not up to me to decide whether
00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:22.359
your life is worth living or not. That's right.
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.220
If that helps you sleep at night, then I will
00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:30.539
support that. Right. So. Yeah. And I mean, let's
00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:35.519
boil it down. It is suicide. Yeah. And I don't
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:39.039
think suicide is technically illegal. But you're
00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.279
going to get, you're going to get, you know,
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.680
put away for a little while for some observation.
00:24:45.579 --> 00:24:48.720
And I know there is a big thing about being mentally
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:55.019
ill and choosing to do this. Yeah. But should
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:57.559
there be? Like, I mean, let's supposing you are
00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:03.819
mentally riddled with issues and you can't take
00:25:03.819 --> 00:25:06.759
it anymore. Yeah, I know. Like, again, who...
00:25:07.289 --> 00:25:09.170
It's your life. You don't get a choice about
00:25:09.170 --> 00:25:11.890
being born. That's right. Shouldn't you be allowed
00:25:11.890 --> 00:25:13.609
to have a choice about when you want to check
00:25:13.609 --> 00:25:17.549
out? Who else's decision is it if it's not yours?
00:25:17.789 --> 00:25:24.190
Yeah. You know? Yep. Agreed. I might be wrong
00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:27.250
when I say this, but I don't think it's legal
00:25:27.250 --> 00:25:30.930
in the States. It is legal everywhere in Canada,
00:25:31.109 --> 00:25:35.190
like every province and territory. Assisted suicide?
00:25:35.430 --> 00:25:41.500
Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. And, yeah, I mean,
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.519
Netherlands was a big place for that, too. But,
00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:49.279
no, I'm in favor of it. Absolutely in favor of
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.160
it. Actually, I know some people who I think
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.000
should do it. I don't know them, but I know of
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.299
them. Uh -huh. Yeah. That's all I'm going to
00:25:58.299 --> 00:26:01.940
say. Hey, do you like true crime? I do. I got
00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:04.789
one here for you. All right. And this was suggested
00:26:04.789 --> 00:26:09.289
to me by Kara quite a while ago. Okay. So here
00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:14.609
we go. Maybe you've even heard of this. In 2011,
00:26:15.309 --> 00:26:19.390
school teacher Ellen Greenberg was found dead
00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:22.529
on the kitchen floor of her Philadelphia apartment
00:26:22.529 --> 00:26:26.890
with some 20 knife wounds and numerous bruises.
00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:31.710
A city medical examiner ruled her death a suicide.
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:36.480
a finding rejected by the 27 -year -old's parents,
00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.660
who were convinced she'd been murdered. Their
00:26:41.660 --> 00:26:45.200
14 -year quest for the truth prompted multiple
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:49.039
lawsuits, numerous headlines, an online petition
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:55.200
with 167 ,000 signatures, and a new Hulu documentary
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:01.329
series called Death in Apartment 603. Earlier
00:27:01.329 --> 00:27:04.089
this year, the pathologist who performed her
00:27:04.089 --> 00:27:08.549
autopsy reversed his findings, saying he no longer
00:27:08.549 --> 00:27:12.769
believed Greenberg killed herself. Now, you'll
00:27:12.769 --> 00:27:19.049
understand the reason for this confusion. Okay.
00:27:19.630 --> 00:27:26.410
But, on Monday, not so long ago, Sorry to Ben
00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.190
Bowman, who likes when we put dates on stuff,
00:27:29.269 --> 00:27:32.029
and I agree with him. But I missed this one,
00:27:32.089 --> 00:27:34.490
so I'm not sure exactly what Monday this was.
00:27:35.990 --> 00:27:39.109
But on Monday, the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's
00:27:39.109 --> 00:27:42.450
Office, after reviewing the evidence in the case,
00:27:42.650 --> 00:27:46.410
issued a report reaffirming its earlier finding.
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:51.099
In a 32 -page document, chief medical examiner
00:27:51.099 --> 00:27:55.299
Dr. Lindsay Simon concluded, the manner of Ellen
00:27:55.299 --> 00:27:59.039
Greenberg's death is best classified as suicide.
00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:03.079
In her report, Simon wrote that at the time of
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.500
her death on January 26, 2011, Greenberg was
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:11.220
suffering from anxiety over her work as a schoolteacher,
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:15.220
specifically over grades she was giving her students.
00:28:16.170 --> 00:28:19.670
She had an increase in energy to act on her anxious
00:28:19.670 --> 00:28:23.569
thoughts. I'm going to pause for a second. That
00:28:23.569 --> 00:28:26.049
seems like the biggest load of shit I've ever
00:28:26.049 --> 00:28:30.269
heard. Like who hasn't got anxious? Right. Exactly.
00:28:30.529 --> 00:28:33.289
Right. I'm anxious all the time. Like an anxious
00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:36.529
overgrade she was giving her students. Yeah.
00:28:36.569 --> 00:28:39.569
What does that even mean? Like I was a teacher
00:28:39.569 --> 00:28:43.190
and it can be hard to grade. Sure. You know.
00:28:43.369 --> 00:28:46.720
Yeah. And maybe I got anxious over it, but did
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.319
I ever think of stabbing myself 20 times? Yeah.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.380
Like, depression can certainly be grounds for
00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:56.859
suicide. Yeah. Absolutely. But anxiety? Jesus.
00:28:58.180 --> 00:29:01.599
At least one, here we go, at least one of the
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.599
many knife wounds on Greenberg's body was to
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:10.099
the back of her neck. That'd be pretty hard to
00:29:10.099 --> 00:29:13.619
do yourself. I should think so. Yeah. while simon
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.720
found that the pattern of wounds was admittedly
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:21.059
unusual she added that the fact remains that
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:23.859
ellen would be capable of inflicting these injuries
00:29:23.859 --> 00:29:27.779
herself simon described many of greenberg's injuries
00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:31.940
as consistent with hesitation wounds tentative
00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:35.740
self -inflicted injuries that can precede a fatal
00:29:35.740 --> 00:29:39.460
wound Greenberg's body was found by her live
00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:44.000
-in fiancé, Sam Goldberg, who called 911 and
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.059
later found himself a subject of scrutiny over
00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:50.740
her death. The medical examiner determined that
00:29:50.740 --> 00:29:53.779
he and Greenberg were not in an abusive relationship
00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:58.019
and that Goldberg's DNA was not detective on
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:02.740
the knife to inflict Greenberg's injuries. quote
00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:06.900
his self -reported timeline of events is corroborated
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:10.779
by phone logs text messages surveillance footage
00:30:10.779 --> 00:30:15.039
keycard swipes and police interviews simon wrote
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.920
she added that authorities found no defensive
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.740
wounds on greenberg's body and no signs of a
00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:27.299
struggle in the apartment simon stated she reached
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:30.710
her conclusion after reviewing the autopsy police
00:30:30.710 --> 00:30:34.250
documents, photographs, and testimony from experts,
00:30:34.490 --> 00:30:37.509
including those hired by the Greenbergs family,
00:30:37.829 --> 00:30:42.710
plus the Hulu docuseries. But an attorney for
00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:45.670
Greenberg's parents, who had filed two lawsuits
00:30:45.670 --> 00:30:48.910
against the city of Philadelphia, scoffed at
00:30:48.910 --> 00:30:51.730
the medical examiner's new report, calling it
00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:56.670
a deeply flawed attempt to justify a predetermined
00:30:56.670 --> 00:31:00.990
conclusion. By ignoring key evidence that contradicts
00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:06.390
suicide, the extensive 3D photogrammetry proving
00:31:06.390 --> 00:31:11.009
Ellen could not self -inflict all the wounds,
00:31:11.230 --> 00:31:15.170
unexplained bruises, missing surveillance footage,
00:31:15.529 --> 00:31:19.690
an intact lock, accounts of a toxic relationship,
00:31:20.150 --> 00:31:24.569
etc. Simon builds a flimsy case on discovered
00:31:24.569 --> 00:31:28.099
portrayals of Ellen's mental health, propped
00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:31.279
up by a cynical distortion of Ellen's managed
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:35.240
anxiety, a condition widely experienced daily
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:39.440
by over 40 million Americans, said William Trask,
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.140
a lawyer in the statement. This report is an
00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:45.740
embarrassment to the city and an insult to Ellen
00:31:45.740 --> 00:31:48.880
and her family, added Trask, who represents Josh
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.859
and Sandy Greenberg. Ellen's family just wanted
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:55.599
the truth. it is clear the truth will not come
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:57.960
from philadelphia's law enforcement machinery
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.279
though ellen's city turned its back on her we
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:05.180
will continue through other avenues to get justice
00:32:05.180 --> 00:32:09.940
for her murder by any means necessary the medical
00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:12.539
examiner's office had agreed in february of this
00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:15.640
year to re -examine the greenberg case as part
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:18.700
of a settlement in a lawsuit by josh and sandy
00:32:18.700 --> 00:32:22.890
greenberg against various city officials The
00:32:22.890 --> 00:32:25.990
Greenbergs were also to receive a monetary payment
00:32:25.990 --> 00:32:29.230
as part of the entitlement, although Philadelphia
00:32:29.230 --> 00:32:34.390
city officials did not admit liability. The Greenbergs
00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:37.410
had filed a separate lawsuit against Dr. Marlon
00:32:37.410 --> 00:32:41.309
Osborne, the pathologist who conducted the 2011
00:32:41.309 --> 00:32:45.529
autopsy and initially classified their daughter's
00:32:45.529 --> 00:32:48.329
death as a homicide before changing his ruling
00:32:48.329 --> 00:32:52.920
to suicide. That suit was also settled in February
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:56.740
after Osborne re -examined evidence in the case
00:32:56.740 --> 00:33:01.259
and signed a document stating, It is my professional
00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:05.559
opinion Ellen's manner of death would be designated
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:12.420
as something other than suicide. It'd be pretty
00:33:12.420 --> 00:33:14.539
hard to stab yourself that many times. Well,
00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:19.029
I mean, if you had something really small. You
00:33:19.029 --> 00:33:22.509
know, like, you know, those tiny screwdrivers
00:33:22.509 --> 00:33:25.950
or something. Or like... A little pocket knife
00:33:25.950 --> 00:33:28.049
or something. I guess so. Yeah, but you'd have...
00:33:28.049 --> 00:33:30.930
Even with a pocket knife... It'd be tricky. You'd
00:33:30.930 --> 00:33:37.450
have to slash. Stabbing. He's quite literally
00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:40.269
trying to, like, mimic stabbing himself in the
00:33:40.269 --> 00:33:43.529
neck. Like, you could do it. But why on earth
00:33:43.529 --> 00:33:46.299
would you? Yeah. Like, if you're determined to
00:33:46.299 --> 00:33:48.059
kill yourself to the point that you're going
00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:51.839
to stab yourself 20 times. Yeah. That's excessive.
00:33:52.099 --> 00:33:55.740
Huh? That's excessive. Well, not only that. I
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:58.259
mean, I don't know how you would do it. You'd
00:33:58.259 --> 00:34:01.160
have to do it fast. Yeah. But why would you do
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:03.519
it in the back of your neck? And it wasn't just
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.559
one in the back of the neck. As you will see
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:10.239
the picture that I found from the investigation
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:14.780
showing where all the stab wounds were. There's
00:34:14.780 --> 00:34:18.940
a gaggle of them in the back. So I don't know
00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:23.000
what this medical examiner in the city of Philadelphia
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:27.440
are trying to prove. Yeah, that seems a little
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:30.880
shady. Well, were you afraid of charging somebody?
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:34.369
Like, heaven forbid you do your job. You know,
00:34:34.389 --> 00:34:36.329
maybe it wasn't the fiance. I'm not saying it
00:34:36.329 --> 00:34:40.250
was. Right. But if it wasn't her, then it was
00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:44.349
someone else. Yeah. Like, give me a break, dude.
00:34:45.030 --> 00:34:48.650
I thought that was really stupid. But I thought
00:34:48.650 --> 00:34:51.469
it was a good case. Who doesn't like a good murder
00:34:51.469 --> 00:34:55.389
mystery? Not a good murder. There's really no
00:34:55.389 --> 00:34:59.590
good murderers. Except for the aforementioned
00:34:59.590 --> 00:35:02.730
people I didn't name. Right. Who I say I would
00:35:02.730 --> 00:35:07.039
be for them. You know, taking themselves. You
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:12.099
got something? I do. Hang on a second. Echo,
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:17.860
turn on chair one. Okay. Okay. Sorry, go ahead.
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.739
All right. Maggie was born sometime in the early
00:35:21.739 --> 00:35:26.159
1700s, not far from Edinburgh. There was nothing
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:28.599
particularly dramatic about her early years.
00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:34.139
She was a working class lass. I like that word.
00:35:34.340 --> 00:35:37.280
Married a fisherman, and for a while, life ticked
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:39.900
along nicely enough. But as life tends to do,
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.980
things took a sudden turn. Indeed. Her husband
00:35:42.980 --> 00:35:45.739
vanished. Some say he joined a fishing fleet
00:35:45.739 --> 00:35:49.920
in Newcastle. Others reckon he was press ganged.
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:51.960
Yes, you know what that is? No, I don't. So,
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:56.340
if I may. Yeah. So, back then, of course, this
00:35:56.340 --> 00:35:59.619
is 1700s? Yep. Yeah, so the British... So, like,
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:03.309
forced? Well, basically what happens is you're
00:36:03.309 --> 00:36:07.829
kidnapped often when you're drunk. This is for
00:36:07.829 --> 00:36:12.769
guys only. And you'd wake up at sea as crew of
00:36:12.769 --> 00:36:16.469
a ship. Yeah, well, it says he was into the Royal
00:36:16.469 --> 00:36:19.030
Navy. Well, yeah, they didn't. It's not like
00:36:19.030 --> 00:36:21.170
now you're, I'm going to join the Navy, Dad.
00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:25.110
Right. You know, if you were an officer, maybe,
00:36:25.110 --> 00:36:28.250
but if you were just some grunt. Yeah. No, man,
00:36:28.289 --> 00:36:30.530
you probably got picked up off the street and
00:36:30.530 --> 00:36:33.309
waylaid and taken to the ship and forced to work
00:36:33.309 --> 00:36:37.309
on it. Awesome. Oh, yeah. Either way, Maggie
00:36:37.309 --> 00:36:40.110
was left to fend for herself. She headed to Kelso
00:36:40.110 --> 00:36:42.750
and found a job at an inn, working behind the
00:36:42.750 --> 00:36:45.349
bar in exchange for a place to sleep. It was
00:36:45.349 --> 00:36:47.590
there that she sparked a bit of a scandal through
00:36:47.590 --> 00:36:50.510
her involvement with the innkeeper's son. This
00:36:50.510 --> 00:36:53.269
sort of affair that sets tongues wagging and
00:36:53.269 --> 00:36:56.449
raises more than a few eyebrows. Things came
00:36:56.449 --> 00:37:02.489
to a head in 1724 when Maggie found herself pregnant.
00:37:02.809 --> 00:37:05.050
Found herself. Found herself pregnant. Oh, there
00:37:05.050 --> 00:37:07.550
it is. Yeah. Oh, look at this. Under the bed
00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:13.349
the whole time. At the time, being unmarried
00:37:13.349 --> 00:37:15.989
and expecting was a serious offense in the eyes
00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:18.429
of the society that was both deeply religious
00:37:18.429 --> 00:37:21.719
and quick to judge. Maggie, knowing her job and
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:24.440
reputation were both on the line, kept her pregnancy
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:26.280
a secret. Well, that's only going to work for
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:30.179
so long, isn't it? Yes. Well, the baby was born
00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:33.840
prematurely and sadly didn't survive. It is unclear
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.460
whether the poor infant was stillborn or whether
00:37:36.460 --> 00:37:39.900
he died shortly after birth. In her panic, Maggie
00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:42.300
wrapped up the baby's tiny body and intended
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:45.480
to place it in the river Tweed. But when the
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.469
moment came, she just couldn't do it. Instead,
00:37:48.530 --> 00:37:51.170
she left the body on the riverbank, hoping perhaps
00:37:51.170 --> 00:37:55.010
it would simply vanish. So you couldn't put it
00:37:55.010 --> 00:37:56.929
in the river, but you just leave it. Yeah, I
00:37:56.929 --> 00:37:58.989
mean, it's dead. Like, I mean, given the era,
00:37:59.170 --> 00:38:02.010
I'm not really going to judge her harshly for
00:38:02.010 --> 00:38:04.349
throwing it in the river. No. It's not like it
00:38:04.349 --> 00:38:06.869
was, like I said, it was dead. Right. You know,
00:38:06.969 --> 00:38:10.730
I get it. Well. It didn't vanish. No, I'm not
00:38:10.730 --> 00:38:13.610
surprised by that. A fisherman discovered the
00:38:13.610 --> 00:38:16.590
child and word quickly spread. People pointed
00:38:16.590 --> 00:38:19.170
fingers and Maggie's reputation didn't do her
00:38:19.170 --> 00:38:22.190
any favors. She was arrested and charged with
00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:24.869
concealment of pregnancy, which, believe it or
00:38:24.869 --> 00:38:27.230
not, carried the death penalty. Oh, of course
00:38:27.230 --> 00:38:29.409
it did. That sounds more like the U .S. do now.
00:38:29.530 --> 00:38:32.980
I know. Some sources claim she was charged with
00:38:32.980 --> 00:38:35.760
murder after questionable evidence proved the
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.800
baby had been born alive. Whatever the charge,
00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:41.440
Maggie was sentenced to death at the hangman's
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.480
noose. How could they determine 320 odd years
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:50.440
ago? Yeah, no idea. Or 304 years ago that it
00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:53.960
was born alive or not? I know. That makes no
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.559
sense. That sounds ridiculous. All right. Sorry.
00:38:56.760 --> 00:38:59.460
The same year, a large crowd gathered at the
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:02.719
grass market in Edinburgh. Public executions
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:04.920
were quite the event back then. I can't even
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:08.639
fathom. You're like crazy. Anyways, a grim but
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:11.860
popular spectacle. News had traveled fast. The
00:39:11.860 --> 00:39:14.039
so -called harlot who'd hidden her pregnancy
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.260
was to hang and folk came from all around to
00:39:17.260 --> 00:39:20.530
see it. Maggie, terrified and pleading, was led
00:39:20.530 --> 00:39:22.769
up to the gallows. No one listened to her cries
00:39:22.769 --> 00:39:25.389
for mercy. When the trapdoor gave way beneath
00:39:25.389 --> 00:39:27.949
her feet, her body dropped and she began to convulse
00:39:27.949 --> 00:39:30.329
in what was grimly known as the hangman's jig.
00:39:31.389 --> 00:39:34.250
You see, back then, hangings didn't always involve
00:39:34.250 --> 00:39:37.010
a quick drop and a broken neck. It was often
00:39:37.010 --> 00:39:40.309
just slow strangulation. You want a long drop,
00:39:40.409 --> 00:39:44.190
not a short drop. Most people had family or friends
00:39:44.190 --> 00:39:46.369
who'd pull on their legs to speed things up.
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.139
awful but maggie stood alone so she hung there
00:39:51.139 --> 00:39:53.340
twitching and jerking until finally she fell
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:56.920
still after the required 30 minutes her body
00:39:56.920 --> 00:39:59.440
was cut down and checked by a doctor who declared
00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:03.199
her dead she was thrown unceremoniously into
00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:05.679
a coffin and placed on a cart to be taken off
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:09.920
for burial job done Or so everyone thought. Now
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.480
this is where it gets interesting. Cool. I already
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.199
thought it was interesting. As the cart rattled
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:17.840
its way through Edinburgh streets, a couple of
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.260
joiners happened to be passing. Carpenters. What?
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:26.380
Joiners. Oh. Yeah. Okay. They heard banging and
00:40:26.380 --> 00:40:31.059
streaking coming from streaking. Wow. I wonder
00:40:31.059 --> 00:40:36.960
what streaking sounds like. Depends how big their
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:39.760
thighs are if they rub together. I guess so.
00:40:41.179 --> 00:40:44.300
They heard banging and shrieking coming from
00:40:44.300 --> 00:40:47.340
the coffin. Startled, they pried it open and
00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:50.360
out popped Maggie. Sweet. Gasping for air, very
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:53.239
much alive and understandably in a bit of a state.
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:56.880
Under the law at the time, her sentence had technically
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.599
been carried out. She'd been hanged and declared
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:02.360
dead. There wasn't a rule that said that they
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.090
could hang her twice. So after quite a bit of
00:41:05.090 --> 00:41:07.650
legal head scratching Maggie was given a full
00:41:07.650 --> 00:41:10.889
pardon and just like that she walked away. It's
00:41:10.889 --> 00:41:13.570
said that shortly after this incident the phrase
00:41:13.570 --> 00:41:16.489
until dead was added to the hanging sentences
00:41:16.489 --> 00:41:21.110
to avoid similar surprises in the future. Believe
00:41:21.110 --> 00:41:24.570
it or not Maggie went back to Muscleboro and
00:41:24.570 --> 00:41:27.610
got on with things. She reunited with her husband
00:41:27.610 --> 00:41:30.550
though I can't Begin to imagine how that conversation
00:41:30.550 --> 00:41:32.949
went. Oh, so dude, he got himself back then.
00:41:32.969 --> 00:41:35.429
Yeah. Sweet. And together they lived out the
00:41:35.429 --> 00:41:38.050
rest of their days. She even opened her own ale
00:41:38.050 --> 00:41:40.510
house where she surely entertained punters with
00:41:40.510 --> 00:41:43.449
her tale. Can you imagine? Yes, love, another
00:41:43.449 --> 00:41:45.369
pint. And did I ever tell you about the time
00:41:45.369 --> 00:41:47.730
I survived the gallows? Yeah, yeah. What a great
00:41:47.730 --> 00:41:51.170
story. She lived another 40 years or so, finally
00:41:51.170 --> 00:41:55.539
passing away at... around 1765 her legend however
00:41:55.539 --> 00:41:58.219
lived on there's even a pub near the site of
00:41:58.219 --> 00:42:01.579
her failed execution named after her maggie dickens
00:42:01.579 --> 00:42:04.780
and i there's a picture of this place that i
00:42:04.780 --> 00:42:07.099
was looking at too this is kind of neat and her
00:42:07.099 --> 00:42:09.019
story has been passed down through folk songs
00:42:09.019 --> 00:42:12.909
poems and books ever since Maggie's tale isn't
00:42:12.909 --> 00:42:15.389
just a curiosity. It raises all sorts of questions
00:42:15.389 --> 00:42:17.849
about the justice system at the time, especially
00:42:17.849 --> 00:42:21.250
for women. Her so -called crime came from desperation,
00:42:21.570 --> 00:42:24.329
a lack of choices and the harsh judgment of society.
00:42:24.690 --> 00:42:27.369
The punishment she faced was brutal, but the
00:42:27.369 --> 00:42:29.590
fact that she survived, that turned everything
00:42:29.590 --> 00:42:32.190
on its head. Some folks saw it as a sign from
00:42:32.190 --> 00:42:34.530
above, proof that she'd been wrongly condemned.
00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:37.710
Others chalked it up to sheer luck or a botched
00:42:37.710 --> 00:42:41.150
hanging. These days people wonder how she managed
00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:43.449
to live through it. Some reckon she might have
00:42:43.449 --> 00:42:45.510
gone into what's called suspended animation,
00:42:45.869 --> 00:42:48.710
where the body slows down so much that vital
00:42:48.710 --> 00:42:51.750
signs are hard to detect. Others point to sloppy
00:42:51.750 --> 00:42:54.469
execution methods. Back then it was more about
00:42:54.469 --> 00:42:57.989
slow suffocation than the sharp neck snap we
00:42:57.989 --> 00:43:03.190
see now. If the rope wasn't quite right, it might
00:43:03.190 --> 00:43:06.010
not have done the job. Maggie Maggie was just
00:43:06.010 --> 00:43:08.889
unusually strong. or maybe she simply wasn't
00:43:08.889 --> 00:43:11.650
ready to go. Of course, the rumor mill was all
00:43:11.650 --> 00:43:13.989
right, and the suggestion that Maggie had bribed
00:43:13.989 --> 00:43:17.389
the rope maker to ensure the rope was ineffective.
00:43:18.909 --> 00:43:21.010
That seems unlikely, because she didn't sound
00:43:21.010 --> 00:43:25.070
like she had a lot of money. No. No. But I know
00:43:25.070 --> 00:43:30.710
that certainly within the British Empire, which
00:43:30.710 --> 00:43:33.949
means Canada as well, that if you were to be
00:43:33.949 --> 00:43:39.630
hanged, And in the process of doing so, the rope
00:43:39.630 --> 00:43:43.170
broke. You were off the hook. You were done.
00:43:43.250 --> 00:43:44.889
Because it was considered divine intervention.
00:43:45.170 --> 00:43:48.949
Right. God doesn't want you to go yet. Right.
00:43:49.110 --> 00:43:51.369
That's kind of the idea. Yeah. Actually, I just
00:43:51.369 --> 00:43:54.070
wrote down the name of that pub. Yeah. Well,
00:43:54.190 --> 00:43:57.369
because my nephew is going to Scotland in August.
00:43:57.730 --> 00:44:02.409
Okay. Like Ryan? Literally exactly like Ryan.
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:07.480
I want him to pick me up a t -shirt from the
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:13.619
pub called The Final Drop. Okay. Which is the
00:44:13.619 --> 00:44:16.679
city's old gallows. And I did have a t -shirt
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:19.679
there. I got a t -shirt from there back in like
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:23.059
2001. But yeah, it doesn't really fit me all
00:44:23.059 --> 00:44:25.260
that well anymore. So I want another one. But
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:27.639
I'm going to look online to see if I can find
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.800
some shirts from this place. Yeah. Yeah. And
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:34.380
they called her Half Hang It Maggie. Half Hang
00:44:34.380 --> 00:44:37.420
It. Yeah. Right. Must be like a Scottish accent.
00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:40.579
It's also interesting there too when you say
00:44:40.579 --> 00:44:42.920
that family members would pull on their legs
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:49.699
to speed up their demise. I might be wrong on
00:44:49.699 --> 00:44:52.079
this and if I am I'm confident that my friend
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.400
and listener Scott Finley will correct me on
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.280
it. Love you bud. But I think that's where the
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:01.250
expression To pull someone's leg comes from.
00:45:01.389 --> 00:45:05.989
Really? Yes. The meaning's been rather altered,
00:45:06.030 --> 00:45:11.750
obviously, over the years. But I think so. I
00:45:11.750 --> 00:45:15.449
think so. I got a little something that'll bring
00:45:15.449 --> 00:45:18.369
us on home. All right. Give it to me. This is
00:45:18.369 --> 00:45:24.730
literally absurd. This is recent, too. Just in
00:45:24.730 --> 00:45:27.590
the past couple weeks. Or past couple days. Okay.
00:45:35.620 --> 00:45:55.960
It's always Walmart. Always Walmart. Oh. Rakia
00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:59.579
Ward is facing charges of battery with a deadly
00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:03.719
weapon, disregard for the safety of persons or
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:07.900
property, and conspiracy to commit battery in
00:46:07.900 --> 00:46:13.099
connection with the July 21st incident. An arrest
00:46:13.099 --> 00:46:17.539
report obtained by local NBC and Fox affiliates
00:46:17.539 --> 00:46:21.300
says Ward began fighting with a man identified
00:46:21.300 --> 00:46:25.849
as Kwame Swain. who was arguing with his girlfriend.
00:46:27.429 --> 00:46:30.889
Warden Swain exchanged words in front of the
00:46:30.889 --> 00:46:34.530
Walmart after she walked past the couple and
00:46:34.530 --> 00:46:38.809
said something. So she wasn't even involved in
00:46:38.809 --> 00:46:42.530
the skirmish. She decided to pipe up, you know,
00:46:42.570 --> 00:46:46.969
not mind your own goddamn business, and escalated
00:46:46.969 --> 00:46:52.320
it. Punches, as well as rocks, were thrown and
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.699
ward allegedly called up her husband travis ward
00:46:55.699 --> 00:46:59.920
to tell him to come help bring a gun ward said
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:03.420
according to witnesses who spoke to police he's
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:07.099
inside no shirt she told travis ward after he
00:47:07.099 --> 00:47:11.090
arrived at the store with a pistol Travis Ward
00:47:11.090 --> 00:47:14.750
allegedly whipped out the handgun and blasted
00:47:14.750 --> 00:47:18.130
Swain in the middle of the store, sending customers
00:47:18.130 --> 00:47:20.789
and employees scattering as the police arrived.
00:47:21.789 --> 00:47:24.769
The arrest report says he tried to shoot Swain
00:47:24.769 --> 00:47:29.050
multiple times, but his gun malfunctioned. I
00:47:29.050 --> 00:47:31.389
will bet you anything, no not anything, but I
00:47:31.389 --> 00:47:34.329
would bet a lot of money I know why the gun malfunctioned.
00:47:35.269 --> 00:47:40.000
Have you ever seen... A certain demographic,
00:47:40.300 --> 00:47:43.860
and I don't mean based on color or race, but
00:47:43.860 --> 00:47:48.719
the gangbanger wannabe type. Have you ever noticed
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:51.179
that they'll hold their gun like this instead
00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:56.239
of this? I'm turning my hand 90 degrees. So instead
00:47:56.239 --> 00:48:00.019
of the gun being upright as you would normally
00:48:00.019 --> 00:48:03.960
hold it, they turn it sideways. Well, that can
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:07.739
cause a gun to jam real easily. Okay. But they
00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:12.760
think it looks cool. Yeah, right. Losers. Officers
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:15.360
with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department
00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:18.659
responded to the Walmart, who cares where it
00:48:18.659 --> 00:48:24.780
is, oh, in East Las Vegas around 6 a .m. 6 a
00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:28.599
.m. 6 a .m. Is Walmart even open here at 6 a
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:31.300
.m.? I'm going to go up to them and say no. No,
00:48:31.300 --> 00:48:36.250
I don't think so. Maybe 8. Maybe, yeah. shortly
00:48:36.250 --> 00:48:39.449
after it opened and encountered travis ward as
00:48:39.449 --> 00:48:41.630
he was walking out of the store with the gun
00:48:41.630 --> 00:48:46.690
still in his hand a las vegas metropolitan police
00:48:46.690 --> 00:48:49.170
department communications received a call for
00:48:49.170 --> 00:48:52.909
service stating that numerous subjects were involved
00:48:52.909 --> 00:48:56.329
in a physical altercation inside a police captain
00:48:56.329 --> 00:49:00.590
told reporters as an officer arrived he heard
00:49:00.590 --> 00:49:03.349
what he believed to be gunshots coming from inside
00:49:03.349 --> 00:49:06.639
the business Immediately followed by a suspect
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:09.960
exiting the business holding a firearm, the captain
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:14.199
said. That caused the officer to discharge his
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:17.880
firearms, striking the suspect. He was pronounced
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:24.300
deceased on scene. Now, I'm not trying to come
00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:28.480
down on cops here. And maybe they did say, hey,
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:33.159
buddy, drop your weapon. But the way this captain
00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:36.980
describes it, they didn't. They saw him and shot
00:49:36.980 --> 00:49:38.920
him. Well, I mean, if this guy is a representative
00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:42.139
for the police, he would certainly want to cover
00:49:42.139 --> 00:49:44.579
all his bases. Right. So that if the cop, you
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:47.139
know, did say, you know, warned the guy several
00:49:47.139 --> 00:49:49.840
times to put his weapon down. Yeah. Wouldn't
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:53.900
he mention that? Yeah. He doesn't. Nope. That's
00:49:53.900 --> 00:49:57.260
a little trigger happy. I'm not losing any sleep
00:49:57.260 --> 00:50:02.590
over the guy being off. No. But, you know. Officers
00:50:02.590 --> 00:50:05.130
entered the Walmart and found Swain suffering
00:50:05.130 --> 00:50:09.349
from a gunshot wound. That male was also provided
00:50:09.349 --> 00:50:11.869
immediate medical attention and transported to
00:50:11.869 --> 00:50:14.349
the hospital where he's currently in critical
00:50:14.349 --> 00:50:17.909
condition. Shoppers who were at the Walmart spoke
00:50:17.909 --> 00:50:22.110
to local media outlets about the chaos that unfolded
00:50:22.110 --> 00:50:24.909
in the store, calling it scary and completely
00:50:24.909 --> 00:50:28.710
unexpected. Nobody really expects a shooting,
00:50:28.869 --> 00:50:31.920
do they? Quote, I literally came to get some
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:36.380
Tylenol so I can do my morning walk. I don't
00:50:36.380 --> 00:50:40.380
really understand the correlation there. And
00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:44.739
I came into a scene looking like Baghdad. If
00:50:44.739 --> 00:50:46.539
Walmart's in Baghdad, do you think? Apparently.
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:51.380
Shopper Christopher Goodloe told CBS affiliate,
00:50:51.780 --> 00:50:55.139
I can't believe it, man. 32 years and I never
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:58.360
experienced this in my life. Vegas has changed
00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:02.989
quite a bit. A female shopper told local ABC
00:51:02.989 --> 00:51:06.929
affiliate, quote, Honestly, it was scary because
00:51:06.929 --> 00:51:09.650
a lot of families live in the area. I'm here
00:51:09.650 --> 00:51:12.050
all the time. So to hear something like this
00:51:12.050 --> 00:51:15.090
happened at our local Walmart is crazy. I never
00:51:15.090 --> 00:51:18.789
thought it would ever happen over here. Prosecutors
00:51:18.789 --> 00:51:20.769
said in court last week that Ward and another
00:51:20.769 --> 00:51:23.329
woman who was with her during the altercation
00:51:23.329 --> 00:51:28.599
with Swain, identified as Amia Blue, are ultimately
00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:32.360
to blame. This entire incident stems from a physical
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:35.039
fight that was started by this defendant, the
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:37.820
co -defendant, and then enlisting someone to
00:51:37.820 --> 00:51:40.699
come and show up with a firearm, a prosecutor
00:51:40.699 --> 00:51:44.940
said. Ward was ordered held without bail, while
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:49.219
Blue is being held on a $25 ,000 bail. They're
00:51:49.219 --> 00:51:52.760
both due back in court Tuesday. I think that
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:54.900
would be tomorrow. So I'm going to watch for
00:51:54.900 --> 00:51:57.590
an update. Interesting. It was funny, though,
00:51:57.610 --> 00:52:01.789
because I found this story through Reddit. So
00:52:01.789 --> 00:52:05.130
this said it happened in East Las Vegas. And
00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:11.369
like North Las Vegas is a shithole. And somebody
00:52:11.369 --> 00:52:13.750
from North Las Vegas said, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:52:14.489 --> 00:52:17.250
What is East Las Vegas doing stealing our fire,
00:52:17.309 --> 00:52:22.780
man? like it was some point of pride yeah he
00:52:22.780 --> 00:52:26.219
or she was obviously joking right right but like
00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:29.500
what just mind your own business yeah you know
00:52:29.500 --> 00:52:32.579
if if you see somebody beating up somebody yes
00:52:32.579 --> 00:52:35.360
intervene yeah but if they're having an argument
00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.639
keep your nose out of it yeah exactly and then
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:40.699
you call somebody to bring a gun like i hope
00:52:40.699 --> 00:52:44.179
she goes down for a long time and now your husband
00:52:44.179 --> 00:52:46.960
is dead because of your that's right assholery
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:51.650
yeah you know Ludicrous. Ridiculous. Dare I say.
00:52:52.610 --> 00:52:58.170
Absurd. Absurd. Yeah. So that's it for me. Wow.
00:52:59.909 --> 00:53:05.869
You know, it wouldn't be absurd. Oh, I do. You
00:53:05.869 --> 00:53:07.710
know, what wouldn't be absurd is if you guys
00:53:07.710 --> 00:53:10.889
give us some five stars. Yeah. Like, love, share,
00:53:11.090 --> 00:53:14.190
do all the things on whatever platform you're
00:53:14.190 --> 00:53:16.429
listening to us on. We would appreciate it. Oh,
00:53:16.429 --> 00:53:19.230
we would love it. Yeah. Love it, I tell you.
00:53:19.289 --> 00:53:22.110
Yeah. Yeah, give us a review, too, if you have
00:53:22.110 --> 00:53:24.869
a chance. And please follow us on our socials,
00:53:24.869 --> 00:53:28.670
Instagram, Facebook, sort of TikTok. I joined
00:53:28.670 --> 00:53:33.010
threads, too. Oh, you did? Yeah. I don't even
00:53:33.010 --> 00:53:36.929
know what it is. I don't really get it either.
00:53:37.190 --> 00:53:40.429
Is it more like a, I still call it Twitter. Is
00:53:40.429 --> 00:53:42.510
it more like Twitter -y? I think so. I didn't
00:53:42.510 --> 00:53:44.929
spend a lot of time on Twitter because I hated
00:53:44.929 --> 00:53:46.989
it. Yeah, I did, too. For the most part. Yeah.
00:53:48.009 --> 00:53:52.429
I've only ventured on to, what did I say it was
00:53:52.429 --> 00:53:55.510
called? Threads. Threads. A couple of times now,
00:53:55.610 --> 00:53:59.010
so I'm not very hip on using it. Okay. But if
00:53:59.010 --> 00:54:01.449
I hate it, I'll just dump it. Yeah, exactly.
00:54:01.789 --> 00:54:06.909
You know what I mean? I hear you. Yeah. So thank
00:54:06.909 --> 00:54:10.869
you everyone for coming by today. Hopefully,
00:54:11.309 --> 00:54:13.829
wherever you are, you're getting lots of good
00:54:13.829 --> 00:54:15.769
thunderstorms, unless you're scared of them.
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:19.639
Are we supposed to get some still? Yes. Awesome.
00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:22.559
I know. It's totally great. I talked to a woman
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.119
in the elevator today. I told her there's going
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:25.639
to be a thunderstorm. You know, she looked all
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:27.619
scared. Oh, really? I'm like, are you afraid
00:54:27.619 --> 00:54:29.980
of thunderstorms? She goes, well, lightning.
00:54:30.099 --> 00:54:32.300
I'm like, well, yeah. I mean. Yeah, fair. Just,
00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:34.699
you know. You know, but if you're inside, it's
00:54:34.699 --> 00:54:37.760
not looking for you. Yeah. You know, if you're.
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:41.079
Outside and holding up a big flagpole. Well,
00:54:41.179 --> 00:54:43.039
then, you know. Then you might want to rethink
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:46.280
your approach. You might want to. But I love
00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:49.460
them. Me too. All right, everyone. So again,
00:54:49.539 --> 00:54:52.199
thanks for coming by. And hopefully you'll drop
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:55.360
by next week for another old episode. You bet.
00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:58.699
So in the meantime, please do take care of yourself
00:54:58.699 --> 00:55:24.679
and each other. Bye. Arrivederci. Roma. The Observe
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.340
Podcast is written, produced, and recorded by
00:55:27.340 --> 00:55:30.659
Rod and Mal. Music by Audionautix .com.