0:04
Oh, I didn't tell you about the dream I had. Please do tell you and Michael, your spouse, um, me and Kanye, West tell me what was happening. It was so vivid at the time. I've been having some vivid dreams, we were doing some virtual reality thing. Sure. There was like charging stations. Michael had a friend and it was in this like industrial loft and we were all wearing these like futuristic. Spacey. And was Kanye like one of our friends? Kanye was my date. Oh boy. Yeah. And this is like pre-Black Lives Matter or Post? No, it was recent. He was a bit unhinged, Um, I think I was, his news. It didn't get sexual, but uh, yeah, we were all in this alt space with these, uh, futuristic. Eye goggles and stuff. Anyway, nothing happened. Nothing more. Uh, it's blurry. It felt, Yeah, I get it. It didn't feel great. It was a bit murky and a little dark. Well, yeah. Kanye's a bit unhinged, as you were saying. Well, welcome back to the podcast. Yeah. Welcome to that Somatic Your daily dose of you don't know what you could expect. Um, yeah. Where are, where are you in your cycle? What are you, what are you bringing to the table today? I am approaching menstruation. I have no. Certainty what day I would be on. Um, but I had the intense food cravings over the last week. They kind of softened up actually. Okay. Um, but yep. I ha I definitely know that I was menstruating last time, or I mean, ovulating last time we got together. Right. That was a good time. And, um, yeah, I just, I feel in a good place though. I feel calm, I feel grounded. Um, and I was really, last time you were really horny. Oh yeah. Now you get hungry. Just hungry. Exactly. Um, yeah, it was like, like I just wanted to eat like simple carbohydrates and meat and all the Halloween candy in my house. Halloween candy. Yeah. Yeah. And, which is fine. Like, I'm like, Oh, menstruation is coming. I'm just gonna let myself. Eat whatever I want, Follow my cravings, like allow intuition to come through, but like, as it goes on. Oh yeah. And I wanted to like watch TV all day. Yeah. I didn't wanna do anything. I just wanted to move super slow. And I'm always okay with it for a few days, but when it like carries on, it's like day five, day six, I'm like, have I eaten any fruit or vegetables? Like, I just don't feel like it sometimes. Yeah. Um, it scares me and like, it, it starts to, to trigger. Old fears about, I don't know, like, can I live my life with this way? Like I'm just gonna be so lethargic and I'm never gonna do anything and I'm gonna get super fat and I don't like just the internalized fat phobia that's still there. Right. Um, cuz like, it's fine if I, if I'm in a bigger body. Yeah. But I think actually the bigger issue was more around like, what if I'm never productive again? Mm. And that scares me. I have like a lot of fear about not being a person that participates like above and beyond. Right. And like if you're someone who's generally pretty busy. And then you drop off all that activity. Mm-hmm. then it, those feelings really come up. And I imagine that some people do override and just continue be being busy because those are scary feelings Yes. Of like, worthiness comes up. Mm. I'm not worthy unless I'm productive. Yeah. Um, and I think, like we've talked about the NAP ministry before, but um, they're this organization that really promotes rest as a radical act and. Capitalism and patriarchy. Well, that's what I was gonna say, like, not only is it scary to slow down, but it's just like, where is the space for that? If you have a, a Monday to Friday, nine to five job, or eight to five, Let's be serious. Yeah. Um, you, you're not allowed to slow down to honor what's happening, like the natural cycle in the female body. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Well, yeah, I'm approaching menstruation as well. Um, I'm in my lal phase I act. Yeah, I've lost track too. I don't exactly know when I'm expecting it, but I have noticed this recurring pattern where there is a day or two in my lal phase, like about a week out from my period where, um, I get. I have like two very strong PMs days, or very low mood even. Mm-hmm. we've discussed sort of, I'm on some medication for pm, d d, um, premenstrual depressive disorder, but, um, but I still notice there's like two days where it's like challenging. Mm-hmm. Um, so I've already had those two days. Okay. And what does that look like? Like mood is low, but can you elaborate a little bit? Yeah. Um, it's like, uh, Feelings of like, I don't know, hopelessness. Mm-hmm. feeling pretty, uh, like the world is gray. Um, really slow moving. No motivation to really get up and go. Um, no desire to, I don't know. Yeah. Be productive for. Be an engaged parent. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I don't know. It lined up over a weekend and I was, yeah, just given some space to be alone. I just needed to be alone. That's what I was gonna say. I don't experience it the same way as you, I don't think, but in it lines up with, Eating everything and slowing down, I wanna be alone. Yeah. And it's hard to get that. And then I feel really annoyed with people. Yeah. Specifically the people closest to me. So my spouse, like, it doesn't matter what he does, I'm just like, Ugh. Yeah. Yeah, so I had two of those days and I, yeah, I was, um, afforded just a lot of time alone. I can't remember what the situations were, but I smoked a bunch of pot and I think I just like puttered around my house for a bit and watched some reality TV and later went like shopping by myself and love it. Oh yeah. And so like, I think that was really helpful just. Recognize, Oh, I think I'm in this stage. I think it lasts about two days. I think. I know I need some alone time. Mm-hmm. and yeah, now I'm over that hump. I'm still approaching menstruation, but I'm feeling really good. I'm feeling good too. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Like that LAL phase can have some. Some tricky, um, periods where it's like you, what you crave is not like what's socially acceptable in some ways. Right. And you wanna get away from your family, get away from your spouse, um, not be productive. Well, and like, yeah. What if you have an important event that falls on one of those days? Totally. Right. Um, and you know, I think that happens. And, and then we have tools that we can use to override, like a Red Bull Mm-hmm. um, I, I think if you have to, you can override it and mm-hmm. but also, yeah. Acknowledging that we don't, overriding doesn't have to be the baseline or the expectation every month. Or to be conscious that you're overriding. Right. And that sometimes you lean in and then sometimes you override because you have to. I'm choosing to override right now. Exactly. I think that that makes a difference in like what happens in our nervous system. I'm thinking back to your daughter's birthday party. Mm-hmm. because that was a big event. Well, not, it was all outdoors, like it's mingling with parents and you just started your period that day. Totally. I imagine there was probably some overriding happening there had to. Yeah, and I wouldn't like, I don't feel like I should have gone into the forest, into like my little hobbit hut and been alone like that was the right choice. Mm-hmm. um, Yeah, but menstruating too. So it's like there's this, this, um, phase in the lal phase where we just wanna slow down and be alone and we maybe feel a bit grumpy, moody, that we wanna like bump out of the workforce a little bit and just do less. But then also when you're actively menstruating, I know for sure for me the first two days I really just need to like tend to my womb space. Like I just feel so heavy and crampy. That would be another time that I would like to slow down stretchy clothes, hot water bottles. Definitely. Yeah. And, and not as much food cravings at that time. Right. But just comfort. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. Um, well also like I, um, I find at work, so in this phase in particular, now that I'm over the hump of those like yeah. Uncomfortable days, my bullshit detector is just like going off and my clarity and like, I, I just, I have clarity in all sorts of things that are coming up at work, and I can speak very clearly and without, uh, yeah. All of the social niceties that maybe I would have during my ovulation phase. Yeah. I'm not like playing devil's advo. I don't know. I'm just, Yeah. I had a meeting yesterday and I was, it felt really good just to be clear and firm and yeah, I don. Assertive, right? Yeah. Like somebody was asking you like, what do you think's happening here in the workplace? And you're like, Well, let me, here's the reality, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's really amazing. It felt appropriate too. Yeah. And I, you know, these traditionally, Um, like when we traditionally categorize PMs Yeah. As like, women are bitchy, women are crazy, women are off the walls. It's like, actually I do think we're more intuitive. Yeah. I do think that everything is on the surface and stuff that we've been ignoring is coming to the surface. Mm-hmm. and asking, demanding to be paid attention to demanding. As the patriarchy would have it. We've just been categorized as like crazy. Yeah. Well, it's funny, even as I was trying to explain how I was acting in that meeting, like the word bitchy and aggressive came up and I'm like, I'm not gonna call myself bitchy or aggressive, but those were like the descriptors that were like coming up. Mm-hmm. for me. Yeah. I'm like, no, I was assertive and I was clear. Yeah. And a man delivering the same information would not be. Bitchy or aggressive. Right. And even like watching my daughter at this developmental stage, like I want to describe her as bossy. Oh my gosh. I know that's come up. And my mom has been saying it too about my daughter, boss. Oh, she's such a boss. And I said, I've said like, if she was a little boy, would you call her bossy? She's like, Oh yeah. And like, No, it's easy to say that that's what you would say. And it's funny that that's like the language we have for that. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, Okay. No. She is a leader. She's giving direction. She knows what she wants. Totally. Um, she isn't afraid about, um, having others follow her Cause I'm trying to think of like, okay, what would we say about little boys that have that behavior? Mm-hmm. But I think would it actually just not even like tip the scales of being acknowledged. Right? It's just like, look at that little boy playing. I don't know. Or do you think that we, I haven't observed a lot of little boys playing, so I'm kind of disconnected there. Do women have innate leadership abilities? Mm-hmm. And are they squashed from a very young age? Oh, I mean, yes, definitely. Do boys not have the same like, come over here, I want you to overhear, I want you to do this. Follow me. Interesting. Are boys doing that? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, probably to some degree they are. But then also maybe they can quickly be categorized to being aggressive. Right. Feel like I see little boys being, um, placed in that category more unfairly, maybe. We're just not okay with any sort of taking control leadership. I don't know. I know. Well, the other night, um, my two and a half year old, um, I was helping her find her dolly before bed. She's like, Thank you mom. You're a bucket filler You're filling my bucket. I know this book, we used to read it like, or suggest it to parents when I was working in children's mental health. Okay. I didn't, I, I assumed it must have been something from daycare, but I'm like, I am a bucket filler. Yeah. How do you fill your bucket? Oh, it was so sweet. And I just, at two and a half watching my daughter just have. The language to explain what it feels like when someone's supporting her. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I mentioned it when I dropped her off at daycare. I'm like, Hazel told me I was a bucket filler last night. And then the daycare, um, leader was saying Hazel is a. Big bucket filler at daycare. And when people are upset, um, she walks over to them with open arms and provides them with lots of comfort. And, um, Hazel gets a lot of pompoms in her bucket. because she's a bucket filler. Um, Oh, so they actually like, Take the, the metaphor and make something physical. Yeah. To get little pompoms in your bucket. Yeah. So the idea of this book is that there's like different ways we can fill our metaphorical buckets. So like, you know, giving hugs to other people or doing something kind for somebody or giving somebody a present or helping somebody when they need an extra hand. But then also things can be taken out of people's buckets, um, if you like do something mean or hit them. So, um, yeah, you can fill buckets or take them away and it's just, Kindness and, And also learning how to fill your own bucket. Mm. Mm-hmm. Well, and I just love that there is this awareness in our parenting realm right now that kids have all sorts of emotional needs. Mm-hmm. and that they can meet some of them on their own and they can rely on their community to meet them. And that at two and a half you can help meet other people's needs. Yeah. You're even giving a language to the whole. Like overall, like I, I don't think I had the language to talk about feelings and I find that a lot of kids don't. Like when I worked in children's mental health, there was so much focus on identification of for education on what the emotions are, and then identification of what they are in yourself. Oh, kids don't know this. Adults. This adults don't know this. I remember sitting in a therapist's office at 28 years old and my therapist asking how I was feeling and I said, Good. Mm-hmm. She's like, Good is not a feeling and pulled out an emotions wheel. I pull out the emotion wheel all the time for people, right, Because it's like they don't know. But then when you start seeing like, Oh, here's all these different words, they're like, Yeah, that one hits the side. Give me some examples from the emotion wheel. Oh, like shocked or surprised? or angry. And then, so it's like the closer in the center of the wheel, you have like the primary emotions, so like, joy, anger, um, what else would be in there? Sadness, all those different things. And then, so like with anger for example, that's like the core emotion, but then you might feel frustrated or annoyed or, um, rage. But there's all these different words that like, oh, you're feeling anger. Mm-hmm. is when you get back to the forest is like the root of it. Yeah. Or ecstatic is like connected back to like happy or, Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just love that we have little people that, um, will have this toolkit with them for their lives. Mm-hmm. I'm so excited to see how this unfolds. Yeah. I think it's just, it makes such a difference. Mm-hmm. Okay. I just finished season three of the Heaven Bent Podcast. Oh, I haven't listened in yet, but season one and Season two shook me. Oh my God. Um, Heaven Bent is a Canadian podcast season one has the host unpacking their experience in a Pentecostal church. I grew up in a very strict Roman Catholic church, which has its own, uh, unique challenges, but this was just so wild to me, like the idea of, well, first of all it was in Canada, so I found that like particularly intriguing and. Yeah, just like a lot of that, like shaking on the floor and you know, really praising Jesus and, or I don't even know exactly what, but I was like, this is so good. And, and the podcast is just put together in such a way that you wanna binge the whole thing. Mm-hmm. So I was like, this is a great podcast. And this was before we had a podcast and we were just two people that liked podcasts. Yeah. Um, so then I sent it to you, on a whim. You're like, I really enjoyed this podcast. I think you would like it too. I listened to the first episode and I had to say, Kara, I went to this church, I was like, What? What are you talking about? I went to this exact like, brand of Pentecostal church and I would not have identified you as like a religious person, right? So I was like, what do you, what do you mean? Like, is this some sort of metaphor? Like what? No, like from like I was dedicated as a baby in this church all the way up until like sixth grade, I believe. Yeah. So like the very like formative years of my life. So what is. Religious, just penta, just a type of penas. I don't know. Like, so when I was growing up, my, my parents described it as non-denominational church. Um, and like, it's, it's so weird. So like, it just, you sending that to me, Like brought up. So I had never shared with any of my adult friends that this was the upbringing I had. Yeah. I had never shared with my spouse that I went to this church and we had been together at that point for like eight years and it like, to me it's so fascinating and just like so cool to see that like you came from there and then like how you've. You know, decided for yourself who you're gonna be, but you often feel like shameful, like you weren't sure if you wanted to talk about this on the podcast Which, I mean, I just am like, what's gonna be ashamed of, but like, there's so much there for you, which makes sense as you share your story. I know, I know. It's wild. Um, cause you, you were not the only, you were the only one, like at your school that was affiliated with this church, right? Yeah. And it's funny, like we're, we're approaching Christmas now, but we just finished Halloween and I have a young daughter and it's been really fun. Um, picking out her costume, taking her trick or treating, like all of these sort of things that we just assume is like a, a part of childhood in our culture. Right. The par here. Yeah. Yeah. And like, yeah. Raised that that was very evil and that we were not to partake. You never did Halloween. I never did Halloween. Oh my gosh. That must have been so difficult when your friends are dressing up at school and like going out after school and you just stay home like, Right. Yeah, No, like I would go to school for half a day and then in the afternoon if there were Halloween activities, I would go home. Oh, Ashley. And so every year it was like this shameful thing that I had to like put up my hand in the classroom, say I'm not allowed to participate. I wasn't allowed to do the Halloween crafts. Um, everyone did a parade of costumes and like I just was in my plain clothes. Were you part of the parade then? Uh, Nope. Sad on the sidelines. Oh my God. No wonder there's like this internalized shame, like, you must have felt like there's something wrong with me or there's something weird about our family, or, Right. Or did you feel like, Oh, we know something that they don't know? Well, I think there, it's a bit of both, right? Yeah. Because I think outside, like when you're with your. Church friends, there's like, we know that we know what other people don't know or like we, we are on the leading edge But then yeah, when you're put into real life situations, Oh, and the amount of kids, like there were some really nice friends. They're like, I'll bring you candy tomorrow. Aww. Like, I'll bring you some of my candy. But then they never did. And they forgot. Oh, no, Like they didn't mean to. Yeah. But, but I'm like waiting for someone to bring me candy. And then I think it creates, it created like this. Victim mentality for me of like, I'm other, I don't, I don't get to do this. Um, anyways, yeah, so it's like, it's, it's this funny thing that I had just. Buried, like as an adult. I have not revisited it. I have not looked at it, um, until this podcast comes out and it's a woman in her forties like being like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. I need to go back to the church of my childhood and unpack what was happening here. And like where like, was, was this a movement of this, like Satanic panic is kind of tied into it? Mm-hmm. the. Speaking in tongues. Um, I think it's been sort of like, um, mocked in our culture or like, sort of like people peripherally, like have an idea, like my husband's like, what You went to a church where people are like on the floor, like, or like there's a famous crash test dummy songs where they're, Do you know the song? No. Where they're talking about all these kids with different things going on at home and there's one kid who's. Parents took them to church every night where they shook and lurched all over the church floor. Right. And I remember like listening to that song and then as an adult being like, I was that kid that like is being talked about in this song, you know? Right. Um, the gold teeth. Oh, the gold teeth. How, what is it called again? Divine. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was so young at the time, so, yeah. It's so weird when. W when you are brought somewhere as a child by your caregivers mm-hmm. like, it's, it's what you do. Right. It's normal. So yeah. So like people would just say that like they just woke up with like a gold tooth and it was like a gift from God or holy, A blessing from God. The Holy Spirit. Yeah. Yeah. No, and this is like fuzzy to me. And I, I did like ask my my mom about the gold tooth and she claims that she had. But she seemed to be rude what happened to her, but she's like, But it might have just been my filling But I think you get caught up in these waves of emotion and I think there's some very strategic, uh, I think there's a lot of manipulators in churches. Yeah. Very charismatic. Totally. And I mean, I laugh at this stuff. Yeah. Um, only because. In a way, I get it. Mm-hmm. and like, I mean, I was making love to the universe in last week's episode. Like I, not now, but I feel like there's been so much conversation happening the last fews about, about cults, um, coming out and especially like in yoga communities and assaults happening and people just getting caught up in just like the community and you feel like you belong and that you know, something that maybe others don't. And. I could have been so vulnerable to that. Mm. I was really looking for purpose and meaning and trying to make myself better and heal. And if somebody told me that like, it's supposed to be difficult, it's supposed to hurt, um, I would've leaned in. Yeah. And that wouldn't happen to me now, but I laugh at these things. But like, I get it. Like I don't think, Oh, like what a bunch of silly fools, Like how did that happen to them? I, I understand how it happens. Right. Well, and I think, let's remember too, this is pre-internet era and I think this is, um, I think it is a movement that attracted a lot of hurting people. Mm-hmm. and I look at like, yeah, my parents' histories. I think my mom came from a very, very strict, um, um, male dominated kind of church environment. I think my dad came from a very messy divorce and had a lot of stuff he was unpacking and I think, I think this church served as a family for them. Mm-hmm. Um, And was a really like loving environment. And they raised their kids with all these people. Everyone was having kids at the same time. And you had like, I think there was such a community that came with it. Mm-hmm. And before like therapy is like mainstream and covered by benefits. Like you had a church family and that sort of served this role of like a pastor would like mentor you or I don't know, and just. So like I, I, I do understand how it got there. I also think, yeah, there was like this trendy wave in the eighties of these like evangelical Christians and it to the right group of people, it felt really, um, enticing and modern. Mm-hmm. and like yeah, like the leading edge and people were flying to Canada. To like participate in these services. Right? I know. Yeah. So this podcast, Yeah, it talks about like these, the vineyard, um, um, these churches that were called the Vineyard churches and they had like a whole sort of set of, uh, um, yeah, beliefs and and stuff. And there's this, um, Um, the Toronto Blessing. The Toronto Blessing. The Toronto blessing. So there was this story of like the, this church, this vineyard church, um, right near the Toronto Pearson Airport where God's like God just opened up over this church and everyone started speaking in tongues and people from different, Cultures were all coming together at this international airport and just worshiping God and falling to the ground and mm-hmm. and I would hear tales cuz people from our church in our little city would like go and make this a destination and they'd go to the Toronto Pearson Airport Church. Right. Come on with a couple of gold teeth. Why wouldn't you go Oh my goodness. Um, so how, how did this. Like how you move through the world, Does it still like, affect you or what? Lingers. Yeah. What lingers, Well, I know, I know it. I think it set me up to be kind of vulnerable. like, this podcast really gets into how children were really like coached and encouraged. Speak in tongues like you get a lot of praise or like to see children being these vessels for God was so like titillating, to this church group. So like, like that was really like when a child started speaking in tongues. Everyone got excited about that. Well, I think children know like, Ooh, I got a lot of positive, an affirmation and attention from adults if I can play this role that they're looking for me to play. So I think it set me up to. Yeah. To detach from my intuition mm-hmm. and to lean into external praise. Right. I think that was part of it. I think, um, it's so funny because when I look at my religious upbringing and sort of the patchwork of it, um, um, There were definitely things that like my parents instilled in us, but then there were other parts where like, I'm just off alone in like church bible camps, um, different like Sunday school where like different church leaders like carried on a lot of other teachings that like weren't really values or like expectations in my home. Eventually by the time I was like 11 or. My parents kind of just backed away from this church and there was never like a conversation really about why it was quite confusing, but we just stopped going and went to a very like traditional, like formal. Church in a small town that had hymnals and she just sort of shook people's hands and had coffee and it was just like a, I'm like, when are people gonna fall to the ground and start speaking at tongue? Okay. But you know what? He was talking about it. Your parents weren't like, Now we're going to church. That's very different than other church. No, and it was so confusing and I just thought that people didn't know, like you didn't know how intense the power of God could be. And like maybe it's our job to show them, or like just being very confused. Um, and then, um, wanting to seek out my own sort of Christian friends, I guess. So, um, I started like going to different youth groups and finding different churches to attend and also just being very confused because yeah, these were more like typical mainstream churches. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think those environments were where, um, Sex before marriage became a really big conversation. Sure. I mean, especially as you're a teenager. Yeah. Like this is like on every teenager's brain. Right? So it would be youth groups, bible studies, um, summer camps, um, weekend conferences. Wow. And always just like with this strong message about how important it is to stay pure until you're married and never outright discussing masturbation, but saying, Thinking about sex is really bad. Oh my God. And you need to keep your mind pure. And, and so like, that wasn't like an expectation in my home growing up was like, you are saving yourself for marriage. Like there wasn't a purity culture conversation happening in my home. But that conversation was happening in all of these things that I was at without my parents. It's confusing. And then I remember like all of a sudden, like, you wake up, you're 22. And I'm like, What the fuck? I just wanna have sex. Like, uh, yeah. And so was it like sex that actually kind of led you out of religious thought? Um, I also just had a desire to fit in. I'm like, I just want to like be normal Okay. I just wanna be normal and I wanna be a normal person who's in their early twenties and like, is. Out drinking and has a boyfriend and will have sex and will fit in. Yeah. Um, yeah. You kind of realize that it's like actually a smaller subset that you've been Right. Like indoctrinated in Yeah. Or indoctrinated yourself into I know. I know. Um, but I do think like, yeah, religion just took up such a big part of my life. Um, just eliminating it kind of left this hole. Mm-hmm. that I think I then ended up filling with like yoga and um, holistic nutrition and all sorts of new age modality. Astrology. Oh, astrology was a big place holder for me as well. So it's just funny where it's like I kind of replaced religion with all sorts of other fillers in a sense. Um, Um, yeah. Yeah. I'm just recognizing like how similar in some ways our paths are. Like we came from different religious upbringings, but like religion was a huge part of my life. And, um, like we, we said the rosary on road trips Hmm. In addition to like a anti-abortion prayer, a prayer. Yes, and like we would go to pro-life rallies. We went to church every Sunday and um, we talked a lot about sin and like about getting into heaven and sex was definitely demonized and it was really, Like, not before marriage. And I remember starting to feel sexual as a, as a teenager and just being like so conflicted about what to do. And I ended up kind of coming out of like, I hated church. I hated, hated church. And there'd be all kinds of like discordance or dysfunction happening in my home. And then we'd go to church and. It just didn't seem to line up like right. I wanted to say with the messaging that was there, but I did find in general the messaging just confusing, like the, the scriptures are confusing. I don't really get a lot out of the Bible. And I think the point of like the priest coming forward and then like breaking it down or like connecting it to real life, like that's the purpose. But like many priests suck at that, right? And they would just give some like, what is it called when they do their sermon? They're sermon and I was just like, I would just, I learned to go to church and it would just be like suddenly over. Like I would just totally check out associate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but prior to that, like I was an altar server. I sang in the choir. Yeah. So like, I also was very much, uh, in the church, but then I got angry about it, um, like when I was like 20. And then I'd like say things like, Fuck God, and like, fuck Jesus. And like, I hate it. And like, I don't know. Like I would, yeah, I was just totally opposed and then eventually found myself in spirituality, yoga, um, food and diet culture of just like finding something else to, to believe in, to believe in. Yeah. Yeah. And it really is like, there's such a connection to some of these, like really, like someone that's just like really into gemstones and they just like have to go to the scripture, which is like their little book of gems and like, what is this gemstone like helpful for, Oh, I need this one for confidence and like, I'll have to wear it like in between my bra, like today when I'm gonna do this presentation. Like it, it all does connect. And I was just so into it. Like you couldn't have told me otherwise. Like it, it was a big part of my life and I feel. Come around to be more balanced now as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, like where does spirituality show up in, in your life today? I think like the definition I like to use for spirituality is just like believing. You're a part of something bigger? Yeah. Or, um, yeah, just some, So like, nature feels spiritual to me because I just feel like, Oh, I'm just this little, like little.like moving through the forest and there's, you know, so much happening here or, Yeah. Um, Just finding things that I can lose myself in, in terms of time. Mm-hmm. that feels really spiritual to me, where it's just like you can get so, um, into something. Yeah. Um, and so I just try to lean into that a little bit more and just follow what feels good and what, what fill me up. And I feel like that's like a spiritual practice in itself. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. A lot of that resonates for me too. Yeah. My, my grandpa. It is very like anti-religion and has always been quite vocal about it. On which side of the family? Uh, my dad's side. Oh, and he knew you went to this church? Oh, he hated that we went to this church. Okay. Hated it. Um, and he is such a naturalist Yeah. And a conservationist. And he finds reverence in nature. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's funny actually, he, um, I have a poem about him that I've, I've been working on because he loves stained glass and he took some classes and he, um, has all of these beautiful different stained glass mosaics hanging everywhere. I'm like, for a man who hates the Catholic church so much, it sure looks like a Catholic church in here. He makes his own sort of, Yeah, these own like, like reverent types. Art and I love it. There's so many like things that church does get right. You know, Like I really remember like pancake breakfast after church. I love those. The community coming together, sharing food. Yes. The beauty, the appreciation of art. Like I miss singing in unison. Yes. I love singing. Singing in church. Yes. And there's not a lot of opportunities to sing in a group and I love harmonizing and singing in a group. I love it so much. Yeah. So I actually have. Sought out multiple times in the last, like five years, like a church that feels right to me and I have yet to find it. But there are pieces of church that I miss, like having some place to go, like Ritual every Sunday to go through like something together and learn something and feel, uh, empowered or enlightened or like your mind has been expanded. Like Yeah. Those, that's the possibility that's there with a sermon. Yeah. But like it rarely happens that Well, and I think. We haven't had a ton of examples of like women in church leadership. Oh, that's the other thing that turned me away from church. Yeah. I was like, why aren't the women having opportunities to lead? It's so funny, like when I was in high school, I was at this other church on my own without my family. I went to, and I don't know how it came up, but. My friend and I wanted to preach a sermon. Yes. Did you record it? I wish there was recording. We had a PowerPoint presentation and there was all sorts of jokes and stuff, and so we asked if we could and like we worked on it and like I was really into reading my Bible and so like it all like. Tied together, but then someone came up to me after and said, We were the first women in the history of that church to lead a sermon. And they were saying it like it was a good thing, Uhhuh. And I remember being like, What the fuck? Serious. Serious. I know. I feel speechless. I'm just like staring at you like, Huh? A woman has never provided guidance or information to this community before. No, Because women are dumb. Oh my God. Like, it just, it infuriated me to the point where I'm like, I don't have time for this Yeah. And it comes back to like what we mentioned last week, like, women are capable. Well, it's like, well, no fucking kidding. Like holy shit. Women are capable of like speaking to a group of people, Oh yeah. Yeah. And actually like in, in thinking about like spirituality and what can feel spiritual sex, can feel really spiritual and like this portal to something greater than myself or feeling connected to like the ether or. Oneness, not just with the partner, but sometimes with the whole world. And you know, as church demonizes sexuality, does that, was that also in an attempt to just suppress women? Because like, that is one of our superpowers. Like we are this portal to the other side, not just through sex, but like we actually bring something, make, make something out of nothing. We make human bodies and brains and then we like. Bring them out of our bodies like we are a portal to the other side, whether you are into spirituality or not. Yeah. That's actually what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Right. I think spirituality is so much more nuanced and murky and like, um, Yeah. Has so many different forms of expression than. What we were shown. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, you know, religion's all about like purity and, um, wearing the color white and, and being like a virgin. Yeah. Um, and we have to understand like where was like the political times that these messages were created. Exactly, yeah. And like things that are so inherently. Female, like menstruating is like dirty and grounded and earthy, and birth is messy and lactating and nursing is messy. Like all these things that are just like part of the female experience were like that that was put down and up on the pedestal was like things that aren't a natural part of a female cycle. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I'm just kind of going off about that. I like that. It makes sense. I feel passionate about it right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what an untangling. And it's interesting, like, um, my spouse had zero religious context growing up. Oh. Never once. He said he went to church once with a babysitter and ate animal crackers. Like, Sounds all right. Yeah, Um, like, so he was, he had been to church a total of one time Um, when. And, but he is an artist and a musician, and I remember we were like out star gazing in the back of his truck one night and he talked about like just receiving inspiration to like create a song. And he's like, It's all just energy. And I feel like you just have to be open to receiving this energy and. And then doing something with it. And like that just clicked for me and it made so much sense to me and it made me fall in love with him right then and there. I'm like, this is sort of the spiritual life partner that I want to attach myself. Yeah, he almost was like saying something. Taking some of the messaging you'd received growing up, but like, it was just like really authentic and true in how he lives his life. Yeah. Refined it and articulated it in a way that I was like, Yes, that's it. You, Have you ever heard the, uh, the Liz Gilbert, um, Ted talk about the word genius? No. Um, I love her a lot. I'm big. Liz Gilbert. Yeah. She wrote, Eat, Pray, Love. Yes. I also love that book. I don't care what anyone says, I Oh, it was in the time and place that that came out. It was, yeah. She's remarkable. And I like follow her on Instagram and she's like, her life is just like changed so much since that book. She's a radical lady. She is a radical lady. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But from what I remember from the podcast, Um, the idea, or sorry, the Ted talk. Ted Talk, yeah. Was about the word genius and how like, in our culture, like it's in language, it's been taken as like, I'm a genius, or the individual is just like this genius mm-hmm. but where the word actually came from, whether it's like Latin roots or whatever, a genius was something that like came through you and that like, it would be about like you opened yourself up and like it came to you and sometimes it comes to people and then it just like goes eure does it? Yeah. Yes, exactly. Who was that? I don't know. Newton, an apple drop on his head. I love that. I love that too because like, and, and she was sharing it because she wrote, Eat, pray, love, and people were like, Wow. Like you'll probably make, never make anything as like, Profound. Is this like as popular? And so she's like, Well fuck. Like I'm considered this genius and then I made this incredible work of art. Like I can't seem to top it. And it was, and then I think it helped her reframe that like there was just this like incredible spark of genius that came through me and I was the conduit and like right there it is for the world, but it's not about me. Right. Well what's her other book, The Ma? Something About Magic. Oh yeah. Big Magic. Big Magic. I also love that book. Yeah. She's written many other great books, but nothing like that's been turned into a Hollywood movie with Julia Roberts. Right, right, right, right, right. Uhhuh. Yeah. Um hmm. Well, I'm open to receiving some genius. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I'm just like listening. Yeah. This felt really good. Yeah, as always. Okay, good chatting. Bye.
Oh, I didn't tell you about the dream I had. Please do tell you and Michael, your spouse, um, me and Kanye, West tell me what was happening. It was so vivid at the time. I've been having some vivid dreams, we were doing some virtual reality thing. Sure. There was like charging stations. Michael had a friend and it was in this like industrial loft and we were all wearing these like futuristic. Spacey. And was Kanye like one of our friends? Kanye was my date. Oh boy. Yeah. And this is like pre-Black Lives Matter or Post? No, it was recent. He was a bit unhinged, Um, I think I was, his news. It didn't get sexual, but uh, yeah, we were all in this alt space with these, uh, futuristic. Eye goggles and stuff. Anyway, nothing happened. Nothing more. Uh, it's blurry. It felt, Yeah, I get it. It didn't feel great. It was a bit murky and a little dark. Well, yeah. Kanye's a bit unhinged, as you were saying. Well, welcome back to the podcast. Yeah. Welcome to that Somatic Your daily dose of you don't know what you could expect. Um, yeah. Where are, where are you in your cycle? What are you, what are you bringing to the table today? I am approaching menstruation. I have no. Certainty what day I would be on. Um, but I had the intense food cravings over the last week. They kind of softened up actually. Okay. Um, but yep. I ha I definitely know that I was menstruating last time, or I mean, ovulating last time we got together. Right. That was a good time. And, um, yeah, I just, I feel in a good place though. I feel calm, I feel grounded. Um, and I was really, last time you were really horny. Oh yeah. Now you get hungry. Just hungry. Exactly. Um, yeah, it was like, like I just wanted to eat like simple carbohydrates and meat and all the Halloween candy in my house. Halloween candy. Yeah. Yeah. And, which is fine. Like, I'm like, Oh, menstruation is coming. I'm just gonna let myself. Eat whatever I want, Follow my cravings, like allow intuition to come through, but like, as it goes on. Oh yeah. And I wanted to like watch TV all day. Yeah. I didn't wanna do anything. I just wanted to move super slow. And I'm always okay with it for a few days, but when it like carries on, it's like day five, day six, I'm like, have I eaten any fruit or vegetables? Like, I just don't feel like it sometimes. Yeah. Um, it scares me and like, it, it starts to, to trigger. Old fears about, I don't know, like, can I live my life with this way? Like I'm just gonna be so lethargic and I'm never gonna do anything and I'm gonna get super fat and I don't like just the internalized fat phobia that's still there. Right. Um, cuz like, it's fine if I, if I'm in a bigger body. Yeah. But I think actually the bigger issue was more around like, what if I'm never productive again? Mm. And that scares me. I have like a lot of fear about not being a person that participates like above and beyond. Right. And like if you're someone who's generally pretty busy. And then you drop off all that activity. Mm-hmm. then it, those feelings really come up. And I imagine that some people do override and just continue be being busy because those are scary feelings Yes. Of like, worthiness comes up. Mm. I'm not worthy unless I'm productive. Yeah. Um, and I think, like we've talked about the NAP ministry before, but um, they're this organization that really promotes rest as a radical act and. Capitalism and patriarchy. Well, that's what I was gonna say, like, not only is it scary to slow down, but it's just like, where is the space for that? If you have a, a Monday to Friday, nine to five job, or eight to five, Let's be serious. Yeah. Um, you, you're not allowed to slow down to honor what's happening, like the natural cycle in the female body. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Well, yeah, I'm approaching menstruation as well. Um, I'm in my lal phase I act. Yeah, I've lost track too. I don't exactly know when I'm expecting it, but I have noticed this recurring pattern where there is a day or two in my lal phase, like about a week out from my period where, um, I get. I have like two very strong PMs days, or very low mood even. Mm-hmm. we've discussed sort of, I'm on some medication for pm, d d, um, premenstrual depressive disorder, but, um, but I still notice there's like two days where it's like challenging. Mm-hmm. Um, so I've already had those two days. Okay. And what does that look like? Like mood is low, but can you elaborate a little bit? Yeah. Um, it's like, uh, Feelings of like, I don't know, hopelessness. Mm-hmm. feeling pretty, uh, like the world is gray. Um, really slow moving. No motivation to really get up and go. Um, no desire to, I don't know. Yeah. Be productive for. Be an engaged parent. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I don't know. It lined up over a weekend and I was, yeah, just given some space to be alone. I just needed to be alone. That's what I was gonna say. I don't experience it the same way as you, I don't think, but in it lines up with, Eating everything and slowing down, I wanna be alone. Yeah. And it's hard to get that. And then I feel really annoyed with people. Yeah. Specifically the people closest to me. So my spouse, like, it doesn't matter what he does, I'm just like, Ugh. Yeah. Yeah, so I had two of those days and I, yeah, I was, um, afforded just a lot of time alone. I can't remember what the situations were, but I smoked a bunch of pot and I think I just like puttered around my house for a bit and watched some reality TV and later went like shopping by myself and love it. Oh yeah. And so like, I think that was really helpful just. Recognize, Oh, I think I'm in this stage. I think it lasts about two days. I think. I know I need some alone time. Mm-hmm. and yeah, now I'm over that hump. I'm still approaching menstruation, but I'm feeling really good. I'm feeling good too. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Like that LAL phase can have some. Some tricky, um, periods where it's like you, what you crave is not like what's socially acceptable in some ways. Right. And you wanna get away from your family, get away from your spouse, um, not be productive. Well, and like, yeah. What if you have an important event that falls on one of those days? Totally. Right. Um, and you know, I think that happens. And, and then we have tools that we can use to override, like a Red Bull Mm-hmm. um, I, I think if you have to, you can override it and mm-hmm. but also, yeah. Acknowledging that we don't, overriding doesn't have to be the baseline or the expectation every month. Or to be conscious that you're overriding. Right. And that sometimes you lean in and then sometimes you override because you have to. I'm choosing to override right now. Exactly. I think that that makes a difference in like what happens in our nervous system. I'm thinking back to your daughter's birthday party. Mm-hmm. because that was a big event. Well, not, it was all outdoors, like it's mingling with parents and you just started your period that day. Totally. I imagine there was probably some overriding happening there had to. Yeah, and I wouldn't like, I don't feel like I should have gone into the forest, into like my little hobbit hut and been alone like that was the right choice. Mm-hmm. um, Yeah, but menstruating too. So it's like there's this, this, um, phase in the lal phase where we just wanna slow down and be alone and we maybe feel a bit grumpy, moody, that we wanna like bump out of the workforce a little bit and just do less. But then also when you're actively menstruating, I know for sure for me the first two days I really just need to like tend to my womb space. Like I just feel so heavy and crampy. That would be another time that I would like to slow down stretchy clothes, hot water bottles. Definitely. Yeah. And, and not as much food cravings at that time. Right. But just comfort. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. Um, well also like I, um, I find at work, so in this phase in particular, now that I'm over the hump of those like yeah. Uncomfortable days, my bullshit detector is just like going off and my clarity and like, I, I just, I have clarity in all sorts of things that are coming up at work, and I can speak very clearly and without, uh, yeah. All of the social niceties that maybe I would have during my ovulation phase. Yeah. I'm not like playing devil's advo. I don't know. I'm just, Yeah. I had a meeting yesterday and I was, it felt really good just to be clear and firm and yeah, I don. Assertive, right? Yeah. Like somebody was asking you like, what do you think's happening here in the workplace? And you're like, Well, let me, here's the reality, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's really amazing. It felt appropriate too. Yeah. And I, you know, these traditionally, Um, like when we traditionally categorize PMs Yeah. As like, women are bitchy, women are crazy, women are off the walls. It's like, actually I do think we're more intuitive. Yeah. I do think that everything is on the surface and stuff that we've been ignoring is coming to the surface. Mm-hmm. and asking, demanding to be paid attention to demanding. As the patriarchy would have it. We've just been categorized as like crazy. Yeah. Well, it's funny, even as I was trying to explain how I was acting in that meeting, like the word bitchy and aggressive came up and I'm like, I'm not gonna call myself bitchy or aggressive, but those were like the descriptors that were like coming up. Mm-hmm. for me. Yeah. I'm like, no, I was assertive and I was clear. Yeah. And a man delivering the same information would not be. Bitchy or aggressive. Right. And even like watching my daughter at this developmental stage, like I want to describe her as bossy. Oh my gosh. I know that's come up. And my mom has been saying it too about my daughter, boss. Oh, she's such a boss. And I said, I've said like, if she was a little boy, would you call her bossy? She's like, Oh yeah. And like, No, it's easy to say that that's what you would say. And it's funny that that's like the language we have for that. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, Okay. No. She is a leader. She's giving direction. She knows what she wants. Totally. Um, she isn't afraid about, um, having others follow her Cause I'm trying to think of like, okay, what would we say about little boys that have that behavior? Mm-hmm. But I think would it actually just not even like tip the scales of being acknowledged. Right? It's just like, look at that little boy playing. I don't know. Or do you think that we, I haven't observed a lot of little boys playing, so I'm kind of disconnected there. Do women have innate leadership abilities? Mm-hmm. And are they squashed from a very young age? Oh, I mean, yes, definitely. Do boys not have the same like, come over here, I want you to overhear, I want you to do this. Follow me. Interesting. Are boys doing that? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, probably to some degree they are. But then also maybe they can quickly be categorized to being aggressive. Right. Feel like I see little boys being, um, placed in that category more unfairly, maybe. We're just not okay with any sort of taking control leadership. I don't know. I know. Well, the other night, um, my two and a half year old, um, I was helping her find her dolly before bed. She's like, Thank you mom. You're a bucket filler You're filling my bucket. I know this book, we used to read it like, or suggest it to parents when I was working in children's mental health. Okay. I didn't, I, I assumed it must have been something from daycare, but I'm like, I am a bucket filler. Yeah. How do you fill your bucket? Oh, it was so sweet. And I just, at two and a half watching my daughter just have. The language to explain what it feels like when someone's supporting her. Mm-hmm. Um, and so I mentioned it when I dropped her off at daycare. I'm like, Hazel told me I was a bucket filler last night. And then the daycare, um, leader was saying Hazel is a. Big bucket filler at daycare. And when people are upset, um, she walks over to them with open arms and provides them with lots of comfort. And, um, Hazel gets a lot of pompoms in her bucket. because she's a bucket filler. Um, Oh, so they actually like, Take the, the metaphor and make something physical. Yeah. To get little pompoms in your bucket. Yeah. So the idea of this book is that there's like different ways we can fill our metaphorical buckets. So like, you know, giving hugs to other people or doing something kind for somebody or giving somebody a present or helping somebody when they need an extra hand. But then also things can be taken out of people's buckets, um, if you like do something mean or hit them. So, um, yeah, you can fill buckets or take them away and it's just, Kindness and, And also learning how to fill your own bucket. Mm. Mm-hmm. Well, and I just love that there is this awareness in our parenting realm right now that kids have all sorts of emotional needs. Mm-hmm. and that they can meet some of them on their own and they can rely on their community to meet them. And that at two and a half you can help meet other people's needs. Yeah. You're even giving a language to the whole. Like overall, like I, I don't think I had the language to talk about feelings and I find that a lot of kids don't. Like when I worked in children's mental health, there was so much focus on identification of for education on what the emotions are, and then identification of what they are in yourself. Oh, kids don't know this. Adults. This adults don't know this. I remember sitting in a therapist's office at 28 years old and my therapist asking how I was feeling and I said, Good. Mm-hmm. She's like, Good is not a feeling and pulled out an emotions wheel. I pull out the emotion wheel all the time for people, right, Because it's like they don't know. But then when you start seeing like, Oh, here's all these different words, they're like, Yeah, that one hits the side. Give me some examples from the emotion wheel. Oh, like shocked or surprised? or angry. And then, so it's like the closer in the center of the wheel, you have like the primary emotions, so like, joy, anger, um, what else would be in there? Sadness, all those different things. And then, so like with anger for example, that's like the core emotion, but then you might feel frustrated or annoyed or, um, rage. But there's all these different words that like, oh, you're feeling anger. Mm-hmm. is when you get back to the forest is like the root of it. Yeah. Or ecstatic is like connected back to like happy or, Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I just love that we have little people that, um, will have this toolkit with them for their lives. Mm-hmm. I'm so excited to see how this unfolds. Yeah. I think it's just, it makes such a difference. Mm-hmm. Okay. I just finished season three of the Heaven Bent Podcast. Oh, I haven't listened in yet, but season one and Season two shook me. Oh my God. Um, Heaven Bent is a Canadian podcast season one has the host unpacking their experience in a Pentecostal church. I grew up in a very strict Roman Catholic church, which has its own, uh, unique challenges, but this was just so wild to me, like the idea of, well, first of all it was in Canada, so I found that like particularly intriguing and. Yeah, just like a lot of that, like shaking on the floor and you know, really praising Jesus and, or I don't even know exactly what, but I was like, this is so good. And, and the podcast is just put together in such a way that you wanna binge the whole thing. Mm-hmm. So I was like, this is a great podcast. And this was before we had a podcast and we were just two people that liked podcasts. Yeah. Um, so then I sent it to you, on a whim. You're like, I really enjoyed this podcast. I think you would like it too. I listened to the first episode and I had to say, Kara, I went to this church, I was like, What? What are you talking about? I went to this exact like, brand of Pentecostal church and I would not have identified you as like a religious person, right? So I was like, what do you, what do you mean? Like, is this some sort of metaphor? Like what? No, like from like I was dedicated as a baby in this church all the way up until like sixth grade, I believe. Yeah. So like the very like formative years of my life. So what is. Religious, just penta, just a type of penas. I don't know. Like, so when I was growing up, my, my parents described it as non-denominational church. Um, and like, it's, it's so weird. So like, it just, you sending that to me, Like brought up. So I had never shared with any of my adult friends that this was the upbringing I had. Yeah. I had never shared with my spouse that I went to this church and we had been together at that point for like eight years and it like, to me it's so fascinating and just like so cool to see that like you came from there and then like how you've. You know, decided for yourself who you're gonna be, but you often feel like shameful, like you weren't sure if you wanted to talk about this on the podcast Which, I mean, I just am like, what's gonna be ashamed of, but like, there's so much there for you, which makes sense as you share your story. I know, I know. It's wild. Um, cause you, you were not the only, you were the only one, like at your school that was affiliated with this church, right? Yeah. And it's funny, like we're, we're approaching Christmas now, but we just finished Halloween and I have a young daughter and it's been really fun. Um, picking out her costume, taking her trick or treating, like all of these sort of things that we just assume is like a, a part of childhood in our culture. Right. The par here. Yeah. Yeah. And like, yeah. Raised that that was very evil and that we were not to partake. You never did Halloween. I never did Halloween. Oh my gosh. That must have been so difficult when your friends are dressing up at school and like going out after school and you just stay home like, Right. Yeah, No, like I would go to school for half a day and then in the afternoon if there were Halloween activities, I would go home. Oh, Ashley. And so every year it was like this shameful thing that I had to like put up my hand in the classroom, say I'm not allowed to participate. I wasn't allowed to do the Halloween crafts. Um, everyone did a parade of costumes and like I just was in my plain clothes. Were you part of the parade then? Uh, Nope. Sad on the sidelines. Oh my God. No wonder there's like this internalized shame, like, you must have felt like there's something wrong with me or there's something weird about our family, or, Right. Or did you feel like, Oh, we know something that they don't know? Well, I think there, it's a bit of both, right? Yeah. Because I think outside, like when you're with your. Church friends, there's like, we know that we know what other people don't know or like we, we are on the leading edge But then yeah, when you're put into real life situations, Oh, and the amount of kids, like there were some really nice friends. They're like, I'll bring you candy tomorrow. Aww. Like, I'll bring you some of my candy. But then they never did. And they forgot. Oh, no, Like they didn't mean to. Yeah. But, but I'm like waiting for someone to bring me candy. And then I think it creates, it created like this. Victim mentality for me of like, I'm other, I don't, I don't get to do this. Um, anyways, yeah, so it's like, it's, it's this funny thing that I had just. Buried, like as an adult. I have not revisited it. I have not looked at it, um, until this podcast comes out and it's a woman in her forties like being like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. I need to go back to the church of my childhood and unpack what was happening here. And like where like, was, was this a movement of this, like Satanic panic is kind of tied into it? Mm-hmm. the. Speaking in tongues. Um, I think it's been sort of like, um, mocked in our culture or like, sort of like people peripherally, like have an idea, like my husband's like, what You went to a church where people are like on the floor, like, or like there's a famous crash test dummy songs where they're, Do you know the song? No. Where they're talking about all these kids with different things going on at home and there's one kid who's. Parents took them to church every night where they shook and lurched all over the church floor. Right. And I remember like listening to that song and then as an adult being like, I was that kid that like is being talked about in this song, you know? Right. Um, the gold teeth. Oh, the gold teeth. How, what is it called again? Divine. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was so young at the time, so, yeah. It's so weird when. W when you are brought somewhere as a child by your caregivers mm-hmm. like, it's, it's what you do. Right. It's normal. So yeah. So like people would just say that like they just woke up with like a gold tooth and it was like a gift from God or holy, A blessing from God. The Holy Spirit. Yeah. Yeah. No, and this is like fuzzy to me. And I, I did like ask my my mom about the gold tooth and she claims that she had. But she seemed to be rude what happened to her, but she's like, But it might have just been my filling But I think you get caught up in these waves of emotion and I think there's some very strategic, uh, I think there's a lot of manipulators in churches. Yeah. Very charismatic. Totally. And I mean, I laugh at this stuff. Yeah. Um, only because. In a way, I get it. Mm-hmm. and like, I mean, I was making love to the universe in last week's episode. Like I, not now, but I feel like there's been so much conversation happening the last fews about, about cults, um, coming out and especially like in yoga communities and assaults happening and people just getting caught up in just like the community and you feel like you belong and that you know, something that maybe others don't. And. I could have been so vulnerable to that. Mm. I was really looking for purpose and meaning and trying to make myself better and heal. And if somebody told me that like, it's supposed to be difficult, it's supposed to hurt, um, I would've leaned in. Yeah. And that wouldn't happen to me now, but I laugh at these things. But like, I get it. Like I don't think, Oh, like what a bunch of silly fools, Like how did that happen to them? I, I understand how it happens. Right. Well, and I think, let's remember too, this is pre-internet era and I think this is, um, I think it is a movement that attracted a lot of hurting people. Mm-hmm. and I look at like, yeah, my parents' histories. I think my mom came from a very, very strict, um, um, male dominated kind of church environment. I think my dad came from a very messy divorce and had a lot of stuff he was unpacking and I think, I think this church served as a family for them. Mm-hmm. Um, And was a really like loving environment. And they raised their kids with all these people. Everyone was having kids at the same time. And you had like, I think there was such a community that came with it. Mm-hmm. And before like therapy is like mainstream and covered by benefits. Like you had a church family and that sort of served this role of like a pastor would like mentor you or I don't know, and just. So like I, I, I do understand how it got there. I also think, yeah, there was like this trendy wave in the eighties of these like evangelical Christians and it to the right group of people, it felt really, um, enticing and modern. Mm-hmm. and like yeah, like the leading edge and people were flying to Canada. To like participate in these services. Right? I know. Yeah. So this podcast, Yeah, it talks about like these, the vineyard, um, um, these churches that were called the Vineyard churches and they had like a whole sort of set of, uh, um, yeah, beliefs and and stuff. And there's this, um, Um, the Toronto Blessing. The Toronto Blessing. The Toronto blessing. So there was this story of like the, this church, this vineyard church, um, right near the Toronto Pearson Airport where God's like God just opened up over this church and everyone started speaking in tongues and people from different, Cultures were all coming together at this international airport and just worshiping God and falling to the ground and mm-hmm. and I would hear tales cuz people from our church in our little city would like go and make this a destination and they'd go to the Toronto Pearson Airport Church. Right. Come on with a couple of gold teeth. Why wouldn't you go Oh my goodness. Um, so how, how did this. Like how you move through the world, Does it still like, affect you or what? Lingers. Yeah. What lingers, Well, I know, I know it. I think it set me up to be kind of vulnerable. like, this podcast really gets into how children were really like coached and encouraged. Speak in tongues like you get a lot of praise or like to see children being these vessels for God was so like titillating, to this church group. So like, like that was really like when a child started speaking in tongues. Everyone got excited about that. Well, I think children know like, Ooh, I got a lot of positive, an affirmation and attention from adults if I can play this role that they're looking for me to play. So I think it set me up to. Yeah. To detach from my intuition mm-hmm. and to lean into external praise. Right. I think that was part of it. I think, um, it's so funny because when I look at my religious upbringing and sort of the patchwork of it, um, um, There were definitely things that like my parents instilled in us, but then there were other parts where like, I'm just off alone in like church bible camps, um, different like Sunday school where like different church leaders like carried on a lot of other teachings that like weren't really values or like expectations in my home. Eventually by the time I was like 11 or. My parents kind of just backed away from this church and there was never like a conversation really about why it was quite confusing, but we just stopped going and went to a very like traditional, like formal. Church in a small town that had hymnals and she just sort of shook people's hands and had coffee and it was just like a, I'm like, when are people gonna fall to the ground and start speaking at tongue? Okay. But you know what? He was talking about it. Your parents weren't like, Now we're going to church. That's very different than other church. No, and it was so confusing and I just thought that people didn't know, like you didn't know how intense the power of God could be. And like maybe it's our job to show them, or like just being very confused. Um, and then, um, wanting to seek out my own sort of Christian friends, I guess. So, um, I started like going to different youth groups and finding different churches to attend and also just being very confused because yeah, these were more like typical mainstream churches. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think those environments were where, um, Sex before marriage became a really big conversation. Sure. I mean, especially as you're a teenager. Yeah. Like this is like on every teenager's brain. Right? So it would be youth groups, bible studies, um, summer camps, um, weekend conferences. Wow. And always just like with this strong message about how important it is to stay pure until you're married and never outright discussing masturbation, but saying, Thinking about sex is really bad. Oh my God. And you need to keep your mind pure. And, and so like, that wasn't like an expectation in my home growing up was like, you are saving yourself for marriage. Like there wasn't a purity culture conversation happening in my home. But that conversation was happening in all of these things that I was at without my parents. It's confusing. And then I remember like all of a sudden, like, you wake up, you're 22. And I'm like, What the fuck? I just wanna have sex. Like, uh, yeah. And so was it like sex that actually kind of led you out of religious thought? Um, I also just had a desire to fit in. I'm like, I just want to like be normal Okay. I just wanna be normal and I wanna be a normal person who's in their early twenties and like, is. Out drinking and has a boyfriend and will have sex and will fit in. Yeah. Um, yeah. You kind of realize that it's like actually a smaller subset that you've been Right. Like indoctrinated in Yeah. Or indoctrinated yourself into I know. I know. Um, but I do think like, yeah, religion just took up such a big part of my life. Um, just eliminating it kind of left this hole. Mm-hmm. that I think I then ended up filling with like yoga and um, holistic nutrition and all sorts of new age modality. Astrology. Oh, astrology was a big place holder for me as well. So it's just funny where it's like I kind of replaced religion with all sorts of other fillers in a sense. Um, Um, yeah. Yeah. I'm just recognizing like how similar in some ways our paths are. Like we came from different religious upbringings, but like religion was a huge part of my life. And, um, like we, we said the rosary on road trips Hmm. In addition to like a anti-abortion prayer, a prayer. Yes, and like we would go to pro-life rallies. We went to church every Sunday and um, we talked a lot about sin and like about getting into heaven and sex was definitely demonized and it was really, Like, not before marriage. And I remember starting to feel sexual as a, as a teenager and just being like so conflicted about what to do. And I ended up kind of coming out of like, I hated church. I hated, hated church. And there'd be all kinds of like discordance or dysfunction happening in my home. And then we'd go to church and. It just didn't seem to line up like right. I wanted to say with the messaging that was there, but I did find in general the messaging just confusing, like the, the scriptures are confusing. I don't really get a lot out of the Bible. And I think the point of like the priest coming forward and then like breaking it down or like connecting it to real life, like that's the purpose. But like many priests suck at that, right? And they would just give some like, what is it called when they do their sermon? They're sermon and I was just like, I would just, I learned to go to church and it would just be like suddenly over. Like I would just totally check out associate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but prior to that, like I was an altar server. I sang in the choir. Yeah. So like, I also was very much, uh, in the church, but then I got angry about it, um, like when I was like 20. And then I'd like say things like, Fuck God, and like, fuck Jesus. And like, I hate it. And like, I don't know. Like I would, yeah, I was just totally opposed and then eventually found myself in spirituality, yoga, um, food and diet culture of just like finding something else to, to believe in, to believe in. Yeah. Yeah. And it really is like, there's such a connection to some of these, like really, like someone that's just like really into gemstones and they just like have to go to the scripture, which is like their little book of gems and like, what is this gemstone like helpful for, Oh, I need this one for confidence and like, I'll have to wear it like in between my bra, like today when I'm gonna do this presentation. Like it, it all does connect. And I was just so into it. Like you couldn't have told me otherwise. Like it, it was a big part of my life and I feel. Come around to be more balanced now as well, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, like where does spirituality show up in, in your life today? I think like the definition I like to use for spirituality is just like believing. You're a part of something bigger? Yeah. Or, um, yeah, just some, So like, nature feels spiritual to me because I just feel like, Oh, I'm just this little, like little.like moving through the forest and there's, you know, so much happening here or, Yeah. Um, Just finding things that I can lose myself in, in terms of time. Mm-hmm. that feels really spiritual to me, where it's just like you can get so, um, into something. Yeah. Um, and so I just try to lean into that a little bit more and just follow what feels good and what, what fill me up. And I feel like that's like a spiritual practice in itself. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. A lot of that resonates for me too. Yeah. My, my grandpa. It is very like anti-religion and has always been quite vocal about it. On which side of the family? Uh, my dad's side. Oh, and he knew you went to this church? Oh, he hated that we went to this church. Okay. Hated it. Um, and he is such a naturalist Yeah. And a conservationist. And he finds reverence in nature. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's funny actually, he, um, I have a poem about him that I've, I've been working on because he loves stained glass and he took some classes and he, um, has all of these beautiful different stained glass mosaics hanging everywhere. I'm like, for a man who hates the Catholic church so much, it sure looks like a Catholic church in here. He makes his own sort of, Yeah, these own like, like reverent types. Art and I love it. There's so many like things that church does get right. You know, Like I really remember like pancake breakfast after church. I love those. The community coming together, sharing food. Yes. The beauty, the appreciation of art. Like I miss singing in unison. Yes. I love singing. Singing in church. Yes. And there's not a lot of opportunities to sing in a group and I love harmonizing and singing in a group. I love it so much. Yeah. So I actually have. Sought out multiple times in the last, like five years, like a church that feels right to me and I have yet to find it. But there are pieces of church that I miss, like having some place to go, like Ritual every Sunday to go through like something together and learn something and feel, uh, empowered or enlightened or like your mind has been expanded. Like Yeah. Those, that's the possibility that's there with a sermon. Yeah. But like it rarely happens that Well, and I think. We haven't had a ton of examples of like women in church leadership. Oh, that's the other thing that turned me away from church. Yeah. I was like, why aren't the women having opportunities to lead? It's so funny, like when I was in high school, I was at this other church on my own without my family. I went to, and I don't know how it came up, but. My friend and I wanted to preach a sermon. Yes. Did you record it? I wish there was recording. We had a PowerPoint presentation and there was all sorts of jokes and stuff, and so we asked if we could and like we worked on it and like I was really into reading my Bible and so like it all like. Tied together, but then someone came up to me after and said, We were the first women in the history of that church to lead a sermon. And they were saying it like it was a good thing, Uhhuh. And I remember being like, What the fuck? Serious. Serious. I know. I feel speechless. I'm just like staring at you like, Huh? A woman has never provided guidance or information to this community before. No, Because women are dumb. Oh my God. Like, it just, it infuriated me to the point where I'm like, I don't have time for this Yeah. And it comes back to like what we mentioned last week, like, women are capable. Well, it's like, well, no fucking kidding. Like holy shit. Women are capable of like speaking to a group of people, Oh yeah. Yeah. And actually like in, in thinking about like spirituality and what can feel spiritual sex, can feel really spiritual and like this portal to something greater than myself or feeling connected to like the ether or. Oneness, not just with the partner, but sometimes with the whole world. And you know, as church demonizes sexuality, does that, was that also in an attempt to just suppress women? Because like, that is one of our superpowers. Like we are this portal to the other side, not just through sex, but like we actually bring something, make, make something out of nothing. We make human bodies and brains and then we like. Bring them out of our bodies like we are a portal to the other side, whether you are into spirituality or not. Yeah. That's actually what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Right. I think spirituality is so much more nuanced and murky and like, um, Yeah. Has so many different forms of expression than. What we were shown. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, you know, religion's all about like purity and, um, wearing the color white and, and being like a virgin. Yeah. Um, and we have to understand like where was like the political times that these messages were created. Exactly, yeah. And like things that are so inherently. Female, like menstruating is like dirty and grounded and earthy, and birth is messy and lactating and nursing is messy. Like all these things that are just like part of the female experience were like that that was put down and up on the pedestal was like things that aren't a natural part of a female cycle. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I'm just kind of going off about that. I like that. It makes sense. I feel passionate about it right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah, what an untangling. And it's interesting, like, um, my spouse had zero religious context growing up. Oh. Never once. He said he went to church once with a babysitter and ate animal crackers. Like, Sounds all right. Yeah, Um, like, so he was, he had been to church a total of one time Um, when. And, but he is an artist and a musician, and I remember we were like out star gazing in the back of his truck one night and he talked about like just receiving inspiration to like create a song. And he's like, It's all just energy. And I feel like you just have to be open to receiving this energy and. And then doing something with it. And like that just clicked for me and it made so much sense to me and it made me fall in love with him right then and there. I'm like, this is sort of the spiritual life partner that I want to attach myself. Yeah, he almost was like saying something. Taking some of the messaging you'd received growing up, but like, it was just like really authentic and true in how he lives his life. Yeah. Refined it and articulated it in a way that I was like, Yes, that's it. You, Have you ever heard the, uh, the Liz Gilbert, um, Ted talk about the word genius? No. Um, I love her a lot. I'm big. Liz Gilbert. Yeah. She wrote, Eat, Pray, Love. Yes. I also love that book. I don't care what anyone says, I Oh, it was in the time and place that that came out. It was, yeah. She's remarkable. And I like follow her on Instagram and she's like, her life is just like changed so much since that book. She's a radical lady. She is a radical lady. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But from what I remember from the podcast, Um, the idea, or sorry, the Ted talk. Ted Talk, yeah. Was about the word genius and how like, in our culture, like it's in language, it's been taken as like, I'm a genius, or the individual is just like this genius mm-hmm. but where the word actually came from, whether it's like Latin roots or whatever, a genius was something that like came through you and that like, it would be about like you opened yourself up and like it came to you and sometimes it comes to people and then it just like goes eure does it? Yeah. Yes, exactly. Who was that? I don't know. Newton, an apple drop on his head. I love that. I love that too because like, and, and she was sharing it because she wrote, Eat, pray, love, and people were like, Wow. Like you'll probably make, never make anything as like, Profound. Is this like as popular? And so she's like, Well fuck. Like I'm considered this genius and then I made this incredible work of art. Like I can't seem to top it. And it was, and then I think it helped her reframe that like there was just this like incredible spark of genius that came through me and I was the conduit and like right there it is for the world, but it's not about me. Right. Well what's her other book, The Ma? Something About Magic. Oh yeah. Big Magic. Big Magic. I also love that book. Yeah. She's written many other great books, but nothing like that's been turned into a Hollywood movie with Julia Roberts. Right, right, right, right, right. Uhhuh. Yeah. Um hmm. Well, I'm open to receiving some genius. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I'm just like listening. Yeah. This felt really good. Yeah, as always. Okay, good chatting. Bye.
