Power Generation in Springfield - Part 1

WEBVTT
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.480
🎵 🎵 Welcome back to a brand new episode of That's
00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:13.140
Shocking, a City Utilities podcast. I'm one of
00:00:13.140 --> 00:00:15.279
your hosts, Daniel. Good morning, everyone. I'm
00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:17.920
Cara. Excited to be here. Cara, how are you doing
00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.179
this morning? I'm doing great. Thanks. How are
00:00:19.179 --> 00:00:21.699
you? If you hear me like sneezing or coughing,
00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.140
I promise I'm okay. It's just like, you know,
00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:27.179
congestion. Yeah, that area. Yeah, but other
00:00:27.179 --> 00:00:29.600
than that, I'm good. I mean, speaking of congestion,
00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:33.460
today we're talking about new ways to prevent
00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:36.479
congestion on our transmission lines. I love
00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:38.600
your segue. I don't know if it's a good one or
00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:39.979
not. They're going to tell us. Our guests will
00:00:39.979 --> 00:00:41.859
tell us if that works or not. It may be terrible.
00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:44.420
Let's go right into it because we've got two
00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:46.520
guests. This is the first time on the podcast
00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:49.520
that we've been joined by two others joining
00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.380
us at the very same time. Our desk just got longer.
00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.399
It did. We had to expand it. So joining us right
00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.700
now, we've got John Stevens, Director of Power
00:00:59.700 --> 00:01:03.619
System Operations and Planning. John. Your title
00:01:03.619 --> 00:01:05.459
is quite long. We'll get to that here in a minute.
00:01:05.540 --> 00:01:08.099
And then we've got Raymond Eaton, Director of
00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:10.700
Power Generation. Gentlemen, thanks for joining
00:01:10.700 --> 00:01:13.840
us. Thanks for having us. Yes, thank you. Well,
00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:16.280
we are excited to have you both here. And we're
00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:18.719
starting with that title, John, because I don't
00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:20.519
know if it's the longest in the utility, but
00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.500
it certainly is a long one. It's a word salad
00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:26.060
of electrical proportions. So what does that
00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:29.420
title mean? What do you do? Well, it's funny.
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.579
I was thinking about this. My title has changed
00:01:34.579 --> 00:01:37.200
only very slightly since I came to City Utilities
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:41.340
in 1997. But director of power system control.
00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:46.859
Obviously, Ray, he's in charge of our generation
00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:50.920
fleet. Rob Geiler takes care of our T &D equipment.
00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:53.980
We've got Marsha McClanahan in our energy services
00:01:53.980 --> 00:01:59.549
group. Each one does some heavy lifting on individual
00:01:59.549 --> 00:02:02.129
components. Power system control is kind of the
00:02:02.129 --> 00:02:04.829
nexus where those all come together and cooperate.
00:02:05.230 --> 00:02:10.090
So we monitor the generation system, transmission,
00:02:10.289 --> 00:02:13.169
distribution systems, and make sure they play
00:02:13.169 --> 00:02:15.150
nice with one another and communicate with one
00:02:15.150 --> 00:02:19.189
another. Only recently here, a few years ago,
00:02:19.270 --> 00:02:24.199
I added system planning to my title. Oh, you
00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:26.580
added it? Can we just do that? Sky's the big
00:02:26.580 --> 00:02:30.580
deal. Good point, Kara. It's added to my title.
00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:34.000
But it's always been a passion of mine. That's
00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:36.379
actually where I started my career at, at Tucson
00:02:36.379 --> 00:02:39.840
several years back. But essentially, you know,
00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:42.080
I always think of Chevy Chase and family vacation,
00:02:42.300 --> 00:02:46.259
you know, that you start out with a plan, but
00:02:46.259 --> 00:02:48.520
along the way that plan may need to be modified
00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:52.060
and adapted. You know, planning's job is to plan,
00:02:52.180 --> 00:02:53.879
you know, what we're going to do, what we're
00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.879
going to build, how we're going to operate for
00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.900
the next 10 years. Operations job is to tweak
00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:01.800
that on a day -by -day, hour -by -hour basis
00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:04.819
to make sure that we stick as close to the plan
00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:07.719
as possible. We keep the car on the road. Well,
00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.759
I was going to say, and planning has become more
00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:11.219
and more difficult, which we're going to talk
00:03:11.219 --> 00:03:13.080
about here in a little bit. But first, I want
00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:15.159
to introduce Ray. Your title is a little bit
00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:16.580
more straightforward, but tell us, what does
00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:19.080
power generation mean? So power generation is
00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.729
basically... Taking an energy source such as
00:03:21.729 --> 00:03:24.969
coal, natural gas, and converting it into electricity.
00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:28.449
So let's say natural gas, for instance, we'll
00:03:28.449 --> 00:03:31.449
use McCartney units as an example. We'll take
00:03:31.449 --> 00:03:34.669
that natural gas. We'll take it through the FT8s,
00:03:34.710 --> 00:03:37.650
which are an aero -derivative style engine. I
00:03:37.650 --> 00:03:41.330
thought John was going to be the first one to
00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:45.330
get the nerdometer. So did I, actually. Got buzzed.
00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.199
But that's a common name for these engines, aero
00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:54.500
derivative, and we kind of just like your engine
00:03:54.500 --> 00:03:57.419
on an airplane. You run it through it, it turns
00:03:57.419 --> 00:03:59.979
the generator and produces electricity, basically.
00:04:00.259 --> 00:04:02.960
So you run the power plants? Correct. Okay, very
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.099
good. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, thank
00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:07.319
you so much for being here, and we're going to
00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:10.520
talk about some of those pieces throughout, but
00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:12.900
really the big thing we want to dig into are
00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:14.919
these cool projects that are going up. brand
00:04:14.919 --> 00:04:17.800
new blackman battery site and then the james
00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.120
river battery energy storage system which is
00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.600
known as bess is that right that's correct daniel
00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.879
battery energy storage system so yeah yeah so
00:04:27.879 --> 00:04:30.959
with that can you explain a little bit more about
00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.720
this john because cares you pointed out You've
00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:35.540
heard from a few others that think those are
00:04:35.540 --> 00:04:38.519
trailers. Yeah, so you can see them on the south
00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:40.199
side of town there by Lake Springfield. And we've
00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:41.939
had a lot of questions about what are these things
00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:44.639
going up down there? And people have thought,
00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:46.720
are they storage containers? Are they trailers?
00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:49.279
But no, in fact, they're batteries. Can you tell
00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.819
us about that? Absolutely. And they do look a
00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:55.160
lot like trailers. They're actually, some folks
00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:58.759
may be familiar with Connex containers. If you've
00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:00.740
sat at a railroad crossing any time recently
00:05:00.740 --> 00:05:03.660
and seen your train cars go by with these big
00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:06.980
boxes on the back of them, they're kind of a
00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:10.500
smaller version of those. They're 16 feet long
00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:15.819
by 8 feet wide. And those are stacked full of
00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:21.639
battery cells. They're actually 672. individual
00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:25.100
batteries inside each one of those boxes. And
00:05:25.100 --> 00:05:27.819
at Blackman site, there will be 48 of those.
00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:32.160
And at James River, there will be 274. Significantly
00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.620
larger, more space there at James River. Yeah,
00:05:35.660 --> 00:05:37.600
and those batteries inside the containers are
00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:39.620
just a little bit bigger than the AAAs in your
00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:42.720
television remote. Oh, okay. That's awesome.
00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:45.500
Now, Ray, we're going to have a ribbon cutting
00:05:45.500 --> 00:05:48.060
out at the Blackman site here coming up this
00:05:48.060 --> 00:05:51.839
month, Wednesday the 29th. rain date the next
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:56.860
day. You never know. It's been a lot in the making.
00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.160
Can you talk a little bit about how that came
00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:03.399
to be and what happens once we cut that ribbon?
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:07.899
Well, so we kind of use Blackman as kind of a...
00:06:09.930 --> 00:06:12.529
I don't know, kind of lessons learned type setup
00:06:12.529 --> 00:06:14.730
for James River. Yeah. So we would build this
00:06:14.730 --> 00:06:17.269
one on a smaller scale and put it behind the
00:06:17.269 --> 00:06:20.089
meter and then kind of learn from that as we
00:06:20.089 --> 00:06:22.250
constructed that one on getting James River put
00:06:22.250 --> 00:06:24.069
together because James River is on the timeline,
00:06:24.189 --> 00:06:26.889
as everybody knows. So knowing what we need to
00:06:26.889 --> 00:06:29.949
know to get Blackman together has helped us expedite
00:06:29.949 --> 00:06:32.089
getting James River built. And if anybody's been
00:06:32.089 --> 00:06:35.389
out there lately, you'll see it looks like it's
00:06:35.389 --> 00:06:37.949
completed. but it's not but but we've done so
00:06:37.949 --> 00:06:41.050
much in two months it's amazing but uh so uh
00:06:41.050 --> 00:06:43.209
once the ribbon cutting happens uh i mean those
00:06:43.209 --> 00:06:45.250
batteries are ready to hit go online so when
00:06:45.250 --> 00:06:46.829
you say behind the meter what do you mean by
00:06:46.829 --> 00:06:49.930
that so they're not marketed so to speak um so
00:06:49.930 --> 00:06:52.870
we don't offer those in the in the uh spp market
00:06:52.870 --> 00:06:57.290
so we discharge those um basically as as needed
00:06:57.290 --> 00:07:01.449
um and settle up later on with with spp so does
00:07:01.449 --> 00:07:04.339
that mean we keep it local we use it locally
00:07:04.339 --> 00:07:06.740
instead of selling it to the market or is that
00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:09.240
kind of oversimplifying it a little bit john
00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.379
yeah i'll jump in on that one it may be a little
00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:14.779
bit of an oversimplification because you know
00:07:14.779 --> 00:07:17.259
the the electricity goes into the same pool okay
00:07:17.259 --> 00:07:19.699
so there's no way to really separate it however
00:07:19.699 --> 00:07:25.550
uh we will control it locally versus The larger
00:07:25.550 --> 00:07:28.509
project at James River, just like our other generators,
00:07:28.870 --> 00:07:32.350
conventional generators, they are part of Southwest
00:07:32.350 --> 00:07:36.769
Power Pools market. And, you know, we bid those
00:07:36.769 --> 00:07:40.170
into the market and the market determines when
00:07:40.170 --> 00:07:43.149
they run, how hard they run. how often they run
00:07:43.149 --> 00:07:46.329
based on the market prices. So I'm about to ask
00:07:46.329 --> 00:07:48.970
a question that's very simplified, kind of dumb
00:07:48.970 --> 00:07:52.430
question, but it's one that I feel like kind
00:07:52.430 --> 00:07:54.389
of putting myself in the shoes. Obviously, working
00:07:54.389 --> 00:07:56.850
here, I have heard this, but the Southwest Power
00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:59.829
Pool, can you explain what that is exactly for
00:07:59.829 --> 00:08:03.250
those who don't know what that is? Yeah, Southwest
00:08:03.250 --> 00:08:06.990
Power Pool, it's a regional organization. And
00:08:06.990 --> 00:08:08.670
I always tell folks they're kind of like the
00:08:08.670 --> 00:08:12.939
regional air traffic controller. Monitor, they
00:08:12.939 --> 00:08:16.279
have members across 17 states extending from
00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:18.639
Canadian border, well, actually into Canada,
00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.579
down to the Texas panhandle, as far east as Springfield,
00:08:24.620 --> 00:08:28.920
Missouri, and as far west as they're into parts
00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:32.299
of Colorado, Wyoming now. So a very large area
00:08:32.299 --> 00:08:34.600
of the country, but they do a number of things.
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:38.539
Like I said, they oversee the operation of the
00:08:38.539 --> 00:08:41.639
power system. trying to make sure every one of
00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:44.779
those companies inside that territory are coordinating
00:08:44.779 --> 00:08:49.100
and working together. They also operate this
00:08:49.100 --> 00:08:51.779
power market that Ray mentioned. Essentially,
00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:57.100
every generator and every load demand inside
00:08:57.100 --> 00:09:00.309
that area. you know, bid into that market and
00:09:00.309 --> 00:09:03.129
they clear the most efficient, the cheapest generators
00:09:03.129 --> 00:09:07.009
on a five minute by five minute basis every hour
00:09:07.009 --> 00:09:11.509
of every day to try to, you know, deliver the
00:09:11.509 --> 00:09:15.529
most economic outcome for the customers. They
00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:19.029
do many other things, regional planning, you
00:09:19.029 --> 00:09:22.929
know, they've been responsible for building hundreds
00:09:22.929 --> 00:09:27.340
of large electric transmission projects, you
00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:33.159
know, from 69 ,000 volts up to 345 ,000. They've
00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:35.980
got, you know, projects planned in new areas
00:09:35.980 --> 00:09:40.620
of Missouri, but also, you know, down in Texas
00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:43.100
and New Mexico area, some large load connections.
00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.899
So they do a number of things, but they're headquartered
00:09:46.899 --> 00:09:50.299
in Little Rock, Arkansas, and CU's been a member
00:09:50.299 --> 00:09:54.789
since 1969. And their function has, has steadily
00:09:54.789 --> 00:09:58.049
grown, particularly since 1997 when I came to
00:09:58.049 --> 00:10:00.309
see you. Okay. A lot more need for them. Yeah.
00:10:00.309 --> 00:10:02.990
So, you know, I'm interested because we're...
00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:07.440
And SPP is one of the reasons why we're building
00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:09.879
this new generation. Ultimately, what it comes
00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.480
down to is we needed more electricity for Springfield.
00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:15.220
And a task force, which I believe you both were
00:10:15.220 --> 00:10:17.240
on, started looking at options to be able to
00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:19.860
provide more electricity to Springfield. And
00:10:19.860 --> 00:10:23.580
one of the ways in doing that was decided to
00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:28.350
be this battery project. How novel is this of
00:10:28.350 --> 00:10:32.590
having these batteries here in Springfield? Do
00:10:32.590 --> 00:10:35.990
you think it's like the future of... You know,
00:10:36.009 --> 00:10:39.009
I don't know if... Yeah, I think in some minds
00:10:39.009 --> 00:10:41.970
it could be the future. But these batteries right
00:10:41.970 --> 00:10:44.470
now for us, you know, it's going to be... The
00:10:44.470 --> 00:10:47.090
difference is between batteries and you talk
00:10:47.090 --> 00:10:51.190
about... Oh, fossil plants, gas plants and stuff
00:10:51.190 --> 00:10:53.649
like that. Batteries can be discharged in a millisecond.
00:10:53.730 --> 00:10:55.409
So as soon as you hit the button, boom, it's
00:10:55.409 --> 00:10:58.690
there. You know, other generation takes time
00:10:58.690 --> 00:11:00.490
to get online. You know, even our gas turbines,
00:11:00.590 --> 00:11:02.610
even a fast start one could take up to five to
00:11:02.610 --> 00:11:04.769
seven minutes to start up. So these here, you
00:11:04.769 --> 00:11:07.330
hit the button and they're on. Problem with that
00:11:07.330 --> 00:11:09.049
being is that when they're discharged, they're
00:11:09.049 --> 00:11:12.029
discharged. They're done. So that's where you
00:11:12.029 --> 00:11:15.509
rely on your other. resources such as your gas
00:11:15.509 --> 00:11:17.750
turbines and your steam plants. So they can store
00:11:17.750 --> 00:11:19.350
and dispatch the electricity, but they're not
00:11:19.350 --> 00:11:22.269
making the electricity. Correct. And how much,
00:11:22.269 --> 00:11:25.110
again, can they store combined, these two projects?
00:11:25.289 --> 00:11:29.389
So Blackman is five megawatts for six hours,
00:11:29.450 --> 00:11:31.850
and I believe James River is 31 megawatts for
00:11:31.850 --> 00:11:36.830
six hours. And to piggyback off of John, the
00:11:36.830 --> 00:11:39.159
reason that... Blackman is behind the meter is
00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.299
because it's under 10 megawatts, and those don't
00:11:41.299 --> 00:11:43.559
have to be registered with SPP. I see. Okay.
00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:48.059
And that's also the smaller site. That's why
00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:52.580
you said you can kind of use it to learn in order
00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:55.940
to make it. Build a bigger project. Yeah, that's
00:11:55.940 --> 00:11:58.299
great. So it worked out really well. It really
00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:00.919
did. Well, talking about that, kind of piggybacking
00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.679
off of the benefits of this, there are a couple
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.480
of things, John, that you had listed, notes that
00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:10.860
you had sent us. And first off is the providing
00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:14.179
power to peak events. Can you explain what that
00:12:14.179 --> 00:12:16.600
is a little bit? Kind of breaking that down.
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.360
Yeah, you know, that's one of the things about
00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:22.960
the utility business and, you know, particularly
00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.600
electric that has always fascinated me. Obviously,
00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:29.210
there's a lot of technical. nerd stuff, you know,
00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:30.970
we can talk about. Well, somebody ain't hit the
00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:35.570
button yet. You better get to it. I can tell,
00:12:35.570 --> 00:12:37.330
John, you're restraining yourself. Like, I got
00:12:37.330 --> 00:12:39.009
to hold back a little bit. Actually, I think
00:12:39.009 --> 00:12:41.769
Ray has been trying to take this. He's trying
00:12:41.769 --> 00:12:45.350
to steal your thunder. But the part that fascinates
00:12:45.350 --> 00:12:49.090
this math nerd is really where, you know, it
00:12:49.090 --> 00:12:54.029
converges with human behavior, finance, politics.
00:12:54.970 --> 00:12:57.009
I mean, everything that's part of our world,
00:12:57.049 --> 00:12:59.690
no matter what business we're in. But particular
00:12:59.690 --> 00:13:04.629
batteries, you know, when we say provide power
00:13:04.629 --> 00:13:06.870
to peak events, if you look at usage patterns,
00:13:07.090 --> 00:13:09.090
and you've all probably heard the analogy or
00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:12.049
stories about, you know, the water system in
00:13:12.049 --> 00:13:14.269
New York City during halftime of the Super Bowl.
00:13:14.350 --> 00:13:17.049
Suddenly there's this huge surge in demand. And,
00:13:17.129 --> 00:13:20.669
you know, electric, we see that every day, you
00:13:20.669 --> 00:13:25.600
know. People generally go to bed sometime, you
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.720
know, 10 or 11 o 'clock at night. You know, air
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:31.000
conditioners cycle off because it's, you know,
00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.960
sun's down. So we see demand from the electric
00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.019
system, you know, bottom out around 3 or 4 a
00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:41.879
.m. You know, here comes 5, 6 a .m. People start
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.860
getting out of bed, turning on their coffee makers.
00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:47.559
I use my curling iron, air dryers, you know,
00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:51.779
all those things. And the sun comes up. Air conditioners,
00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:54.159
you know, start kicking on, factories start up,
00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:57.399
and suddenly we see that demand grow and grow
00:13:57.399 --> 00:14:01.039
and grow. And, you know, different times of year
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:03.639
have different patterns, but on a hot summer
00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:06.059
day like, you know, we've got in our future here,
00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:10.179
you know, we'll see that usage generally peak
00:14:10.179 --> 00:14:13.740
out between 4 and 5 p .m. in the afternoon. And
00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:17.419
it makes a pretty... predictable curve um and
00:14:17.419 --> 00:14:19.139
the difference between the top of that curve
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.419
and the bottom can generally be about you know
00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:27.500
um double you know in our case about you know
00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:30.159
300 megawatts from the bottom of the curve to
00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:34.539
the top so you know batteries by it's simply
00:14:34.539 --> 00:14:38.120
a time shift you can you know put power in the
00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.720
bank when no one needs it so that you can take
00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.019
it out of that bank when everyone wants it I
00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:47.379
like that analogy because that's very much so
00:14:47.379 --> 00:14:51.179
using it so that whenever we have those, again,
00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:54.620
fluctuations any given day, we're able to use
00:14:54.620 --> 00:14:58.000
that with storing it in the bank, withdrawing
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.000
that during the times that it's at the greatest
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.440
use. And it's kind of up to the ability of us
00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:08.240
to say like, hey, this is a good time to implement
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:10.840
that. Is that right? That's exactly right, and
00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:13.039
that's where finance comes into the equation
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.480
because most of us have heard about supply and
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:20.220
demand, and it's a real thing. When everybody
00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:23.740
wants to buy a certain good or commodity, the
00:15:23.740 --> 00:15:25.960
price goes up. When nobody wants it, the price
00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.080
goes down. Electricity is no different, and that
00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:31.700
price changes every five minutes in a market
00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:35.320
like SPP. Now, the other thing is in terms of,
00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:37.860
so that's every day, but in terms of emergency
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:41.379
needs, that also helps in cases like that. No,
00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:45.480
that's exactly right. And, you know, what's interesting,
00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:48.200
and certainly we'd have to get the nerdometer
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.639
out to go too much in depth. Our hands are wavering
00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:53.879
over it, Tom, beware. You talked a little bit
00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:55.929
about the differences. you know, between our
00:15:55.929 --> 00:15:58.389
installation at Blackman versus James River.
00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:01.309
And depending on where these are located or how
00:16:01.309 --> 00:16:04.470
big they are, they can serve different purposes.
00:16:04.730 --> 00:16:07.669
Like you said, emergency, you know, in this case.
00:16:08.389 --> 00:16:11.090
So they can be operated independently? Yeah.
00:16:11.210 --> 00:16:14.549
Oh, absolutely. You know, each installation is,
00:16:14.549 --> 00:16:18.070
you know, independent from the other and they
00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:22.269
may have different priorities or different applications.
00:16:23.350 --> 00:16:25.590
You know, for example, You know, back to the
00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:28.450
emergency question, I suspect, you know, you
00:16:28.450 --> 00:16:30.169
have a lot of equipment in here. I bet someone
00:16:30.169 --> 00:16:33.389
that has a UPS so that if the power blinks or,
00:16:33.429 --> 00:16:36.330
you know, we lose it, we're not in the total
00:16:36.330 --> 00:16:39.070
dark. These are the same thing just on a larger
00:16:39.070 --> 00:16:42.389
scale. I mean, imagine, you know, having a battery
00:16:42.389 --> 00:16:45.250
system at your house. So if the power, you know,
00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:47.990
we have a thunderstorm or some other event, car
00:16:47.990 --> 00:16:50.850
hits a pole, your lights may blink, but they're
00:16:50.850 --> 00:16:55.080
back on in an instant. And, you know, while you're
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.159
waiting for, you know, the lines to be repaired
00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:59.259
or things to be put back together, you could
00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:02.419
use your battery for an emergency. But that gets
00:17:02.419 --> 00:17:04.920
back to that, you know, planning versus operations.
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:07.799
You know, in order to have it ready for an emergency,
00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:10.319
you have to plan for that or you have to hold
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:15.420
it back versus, you know, if you have that emergency
00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:18.819
when your battery's out of juice, then it doesn't
00:17:18.819 --> 00:17:23.890
do you much good. So, Ray, I know that you, as
00:17:23.890 --> 00:17:26.150
I mentioned, work at the power plant, and you
00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.390
have a large staff that helps generate the electricity
00:17:30.390 --> 00:17:33.430
needed for Springfield. How will these batteries
00:17:33.430 --> 00:17:36.589
play into that? Does it need to be staffed 24
00:17:36.589 --> 00:17:41.910
-7, similar to the power plants, or is it somewhat
00:17:41.910 --> 00:17:44.710
independent? No, they don't have to be staffed
00:17:44.710 --> 00:17:46.769
24 -7 or have anybody out there when they're
00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:51.769
discharging. discharge the battery in the future
00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:53.829
if we when we start discharging we may send somebody
00:17:53.829 --> 00:17:55.630
out there to walk around take a look at things
00:17:55.630 --> 00:17:58.529
and make sure everything is uh as it was beforehand
00:17:58.529 --> 00:18:00.950
and uh just you know like we do with our gas
00:18:00.950 --> 00:18:02.730
turbines we run those when we shut them down
00:18:02.730 --> 00:18:04.410
we'll send somebody to walk them around just
00:18:04.410 --> 00:18:06.329
to just to verify but no they don't have to be
00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:10.190
staffed 24 7 or or at any time okay that's great
00:18:10.190 --> 00:18:13.349
yeah so well the other thing with that kind of
00:18:13.349 --> 00:18:15.549
piggybacking off of your question care is that
00:18:16.089 --> 00:18:18.869
Ray, historically speaking, we've seen electricity
00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:22.190
being produced and used simultaneously with limited
00:18:23.419 --> 00:18:26.140
options for storage. But now with the grid scale
00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:29.059
batteries seeking to change that, how exactly
00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:32.900
is that changing it for us? Well, it changes
00:18:32.900 --> 00:18:35.079
every day. It's like John said, I mean, it changes
00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.579
every five minutes. And, you know, with these
00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:41.500
batteries, you know, we've seen in the past,
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:43.180
you know, if you lose a big generator somewhere,
00:18:43.339 --> 00:18:44.980
a new plant comes down or something like that,
00:18:45.099 --> 00:18:47.180
you know, then, you know, it's all hands on deck
00:18:47.180 --> 00:18:49.799
with all our units. And we see it here locally
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:53.529
at Springfield. a new plant goes down or some
00:18:53.529 --> 00:18:55.890
large plant goes down in our area or around our
00:18:55.890 --> 00:18:58.589
area, we'll see it here. And being that we're
00:18:58.589 --> 00:19:00.910
all in the same loop, as far as SVP goes, you
00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:02.869
know, it affects everybody. So having these batteries
00:19:02.869 --> 00:19:05.809
that can hit in a millisecond to grab those loads
00:19:05.809 --> 00:19:08.690
and adjust that voltage is going to be key. Well,
00:19:08.769 --> 00:19:10.430
I'll tell you what, this has been a fascinating
00:19:10.430 --> 00:19:12.829
conversation and we do have a lot more we want
00:19:12.829 --> 00:19:16.289
to talk about. whether or not these best systems
00:19:16.289 --> 00:19:19.609
are the you know the future what it means for
00:19:19.609 --> 00:19:21.470
us here in Springfield we also want to dig in
00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:24.250
a little bit more about why we chose batteries
00:19:24.250 --> 00:19:27.069
as an option here in Springfield, what went into
00:19:27.069 --> 00:19:30.690
that. And then also why it's making headlines
00:19:30.690 --> 00:19:33.109
nationally that we have these units here. So
00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:36.490
we're going to take a break and we're going to
00:19:36.490 --> 00:19:38.829
come back with another episode, a bonus episode,
00:19:38.990 --> 00:19:41.329
if you will, where we're going to learn more.
00:19:41.390 --> 00:19:42.670
We're going to dig in more. We have, you know,
00:19:42.670 --> 00:19:44.910
double the experts, double the fun today. So
00:19:44.910 --> 00:19:47.250
we have to have double the episode. Of course.
00:19:47.329 --> 00:19:49.890
That only makes sense. Yeah. Ray and John, thanks
00:19:49.890 --> 00:19:52.069
for joining us. And listeners, thank you. for
00:19:52.069 --> 00:19:55.730
joining us as well for this episode. Again, don't
00:19:55.730 --> 00:19:58.569
forget that we are on social media. If you have
00:19:58.569 --> 00:20:01.069
questions for us, be sure to send those to social
00:20:01.069 --> 00:20:04.569
at cityutilities .net. And speaking of socials,
00:20:04.569 --> 00:20:07.170
be sure you're following us on Facebook, X, Instagram,
00:20:07.349 --> 00:20:10.509
and TikTok. We have two TikTok channels at City
00:20:10.509 --> 00:20:13.549
Utilities and the TikTok page dedicated to this
00:20:13.549 --> 00:20:16.329
podcast is That Shocking Pod. Unfortunately,
00:20:16.369 --> 00:20:18.450
we have to go off the grid right now, but...
00:20:18.890 --> 00:20:20.750
Thanks for plugging in and allowing us to brighten
00:20:20.750 --> 00:20:22.750
up your day. Stay energized Springfield.