WEBVTT
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Good morning.
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It's Leo and welcome to a new month.
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I want to spend the next several Fridays doing something a little bit different.
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So I may have some episodes sprinkled in the middle, but the main releases are going to be on the Fridays this month.
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And I do a lot of basic covering stuff that if you've been a cop for 10 years, been a detective, you're a sergeant, you probably don't need as much.
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And today I want to go into something, and over the course of this month, something that I've taught at multiple levels, and I'm very comfortable teaching and helping you to build a better case.
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And that is more advanced interviewing.
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When I teach this in person, I like to have it be a dialogue.
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And that means I have a group of experienced investigators, and I'm not only teaching them, I'm learning from them, and we're learning from each other.
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It's kind of like we're all sounding boards for each other.
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We're allowed to disagree with each other about what works.
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We're allowed to give stories about what worked.
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It's not story time, but if it helps to illustrate a point, I encourage the investigators to, you know, tell their story, what worked for you, how did it work?
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How did you apply it?
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Not just what did you do, but how did you apply it?
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So that's what this next series is going to be on.
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Some of the areas, I'm not even going to say I think some of the areas that I'm going to cover are very neglected.
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And the way I'm going to cover the subject subjects is going to be chronologically throughout the course of an interview and in order of what I would call neglect.
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What do people neglect the most when they're doing an interview?
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The first two subjects that I'm going to cover are going to be planning and preparation for the interview.
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I think that's the most neglected area of an interview.
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A lot of people just don't plan.
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They're like, I know this case in my head.
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Why would I need to plan anything?
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I know what information I want.
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I want a confession.
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I know the case.
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I know the facts.
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I'm going in the box with this guy.
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I'm going in the box with this gal.
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I'm going to get a confession.
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If I don't, it's somebody else's fault.
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I'm going to take no accountability.
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So planning and preparation, in my opinion, being the most neglected, with a close second being rapport building.
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And next episode, I'll go more into what that means and how to do it.
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But it's just, it's building a realistic personal connection with your interviewee.
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Be that a victim, a witness, a suspect, whatever, whoever you're talking to, you need to build a rapport.
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So we're going to leave that for next Friday.
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This Friday we'll be talking about planning and preparation.
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How do you plan and prepare effectively to allow you to do what?
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What do I always say?
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To collect facts.
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You want to collect all the facts from this person you can.
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Not collect lies, not collect untruths, not collect nothing because they don't like you.
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But how do you plan in advance effectively?
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I've done this a lot.
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I do plan for every interview I do, victim, witness, suspect.
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And let's get into kind of how that looks for me.
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You know, I have these social media pages up, so you're completely encouraged to, you know, put something in the public comments on those, or send me a private message.
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Hey, I listened to your planning and prep episode.
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Here's something that I do that you didn't mention.
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And I'll do an amendment or something if it makes sense.
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So the things we uh things we're gonna think about, the who, what, where, when, why, how.
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And I'm talking about as far as the planning, not the information we're trying to collect.
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Who are we interviewing?
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Who is interviewing?
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What do we want?
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Where are we?
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When are we doing it?
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Both time of day and the chronology of the investigation.
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At what point do you want to inject this interview into your fac collection process?
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Why are we interviewing the person?
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Do we want a confession?
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Do we want a lie?
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Do we know they're gonna lie and we just want a lie that can be proven?
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Do we know that they were there and them saying, I wasn't even out that night is just as good as uh whatever.
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Sometimes lies are great and it's all you're gonna get.
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And how?
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Planning in advance the how.
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And that does a couple things.
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It gets you thinking about who this person is, and it gets you thinking about alternatives when that, when and if that first plan fails.
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I'm not gonna say when because it doesn't always fail.
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Sometimes if your first plan is thought out, it works.
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And you're like, man, my approach worked on this person and they're talking to me, they're providing me info.
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Other things to consider beforehand, the use of props, we'll go into that more.
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The statutes and the elements of the crime that you're trying to prove.
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If you're interviewing somebody and you're a cop, there's a crime that went on.
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So what are the elements?
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Whether you're talking to a suspect, victim, or witness, you should know the elements of the crime that you're looking into.
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Maybe not trying to prove, but investigating.
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If somebody's dead and it was a homicide, you should probably know the elements of manslaughter, murder, I don't know, overdose statutes, all of this stuff.
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Cutting off defenses, I'll get more into that.
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And case knowledge, we'll get into that, but that's that's fairly self-exclamatory.
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You you have to know your case.
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Let's start with the who.
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And again, this isn't who you're interviewing.
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I'm not talking about who are you talking to.
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I'm talking about the interviewer roles.
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There should be a primary and a secondary, right?
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Can those change?
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Absolutely, yes.
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If me and a partner go into the interview room and the plan, I know the case inside and out, and I'm planning to be primary, and we sit down, I've seen this happen countless times.
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Not as, not maybe not as aggressive as I'm about to give an example, but more subtle is just as important.
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You need to pick up on it.
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We sit down and they say, Leo, I don't like your ugly face.
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I'm not talking to you, but I'll talk to her.
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Me and her are cool.
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She's treating me right on the street.
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I'll talk to her.
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Do you should I fight that?
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Should I let my ego ruin my case?
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And I go, nah, you're here to talk to me.
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This is my case, dog.
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All right, big dog.
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She doesn't even know the case.
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So she can't even speak knowledgeably on it.
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Like, I'm I'm just shoving my foot in my mouth at that point.
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So you have a primary and a secondary.
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Secondary, your job is to be quiet and listen.
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If you're an interrupter or if your partner is an interrupter, don't take them in that room with you.
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You don't need two people constantly involved in this person.
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So the point is just think out who your primary and secondary people are.
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Do you want a nice person with a not so nice person, kind of gruff person?
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Do you want two abrasive people doing the interview together?
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They might turn into like this pack of dogs mentality and just get extra tough on people.
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So just think out your roles.
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Think out who you're bringing in.
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If it's your case, I'll tell you this right now.
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It is okay to not bring somebody in there that causes problems in the booth.
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If they cause issues in the box, if they've yelled at your suspect before, I've had people yell at my suspect several times and shut them down.
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I'm not bringing them back in.
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And sometimes they volunteer.
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They lie, they think it's fun.
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And they're like, oh, I'll go in with you, Leo.
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I'll go in with you on this.
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And I'll go, I know that I already got somebody lined up.
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I don't have to be mean, but I'm like, no, I already got somebody in mind.
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I appreciate it though.
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Like, no, you're cut from the team, brother, because you you yell at people all the time or you like slam down Miranda forms.
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You do stuff I don't like.
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So I'm picking you, I'm very deliberate with who's doing the interview.
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If it's your case, you don't have to be the interviewer.
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If you suck at it, shoes on the other foot.
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If you get really good at interviews, it doesn't have to be your case.
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You can tell people, like, hey, if you need help with the interview, just let me know.
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I'll be glad to.
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And once they start seeing you get confessions or get cooperation out of victims and witnesses, they'll want you on the team for that.
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Notes versus recording.
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Again, we're in the planning phase.
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What are you going to do?
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I don't like taking notes.
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I use redundant extra recorders because I hate losing recordings and, you know, whatever.
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But at the end of the day, the recording is the best evidence.
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And the notes are just something else that you have to put into evidence because those are discoverable.
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And just somebody sitting there taking notes, I feel like it rubs some people wrong.
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If, you know, if they're sitting there confessing to a murder and they see you writing down, I shot the girl in the face, and they look over and see that, they might stop.
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I don't like notes.
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I like camera and I like a recorder in the pocket.
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So there's two recorders going.
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It's the best evidence anyway.
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And then I go through and I listen to that.
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But it's up to you.
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Just make a choice on the front end so you're not staggering around.
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The strengths and weaknesses of interview team members, just to go back to that, it's so immensely important.
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Certain people are better than others as far as, you know, it's an art and a science.
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And some people have the science down.
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They understand the rules, they know when to give Miranda, all this stuff.
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They might know the process, but they got no art to them.
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They got no flow.
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They they can't build rapport with anybody.
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And it can also be the other way around.
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They can have a lot of flow, but not really understand the rules.
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And we don't want that either, right?
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So case knowledge.
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Somebody in that room needs to know the case very well.
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Because otherwise you have to qualify the confession.
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If you're talking to your subject, your suspect, whatever you want to call them, and you don't know the case, you know, if you don't even know where the murder happened or the robbery or whatever you're looking into, or just uh it's not even just the where, it's gross case knowledge, very intimate case knowledge.
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It matters when the person you're talking to starts spitting out details very quickly.
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And you're he you'll catch stuff if you actually know that case that doesn't match up or does match up and corroborates itself.
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So you need to know it inside and out.
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You can't just send two people in there.
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Again, if you're the person that is volunteering to do interviews because you like doing it and you've gotten good at it, like me, I love doing interviews and helping out a fellow case agent and getting them, you know, the information they need.
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I'm requiring kind of a brief on the front end.
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Like, hey, even if you just give me two minutes, tell me about this.
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All right, we've bought like two Dracos from this guy and an ounce of meth.
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He's Crip, he's Grape Street Crip.
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He hangs out with the grapes in South Memphis in the Lakeview Gardens area.
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Okay, what's his nickname?
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Does he have kids?
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What'd you catch him with when you arrested him?
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Oh, yeah, he's got a couple kids, he's not in their life.
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His nickname's Killa and whatever.
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You get the point.
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I want to know a little bit about this person.
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I don't want to go in blind to this interview.
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So if you're if you're about to go in blind, just slow it down a bit.
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You don't have to run into the interview room and go, hey, can you can you talk to me a little bit?
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If you are the interviewer, man, when I did op plans, I would I will decide on the front end who's gonna be doing interviews.
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I'm assuming if I'm doing an arrest, it's gonna go.
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That's that's the way I'm thinking.
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Like, we're gonna get this guy.
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And what are we doing after that?
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Who's collecting evidence?
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Who's doing the interview, et cetera?
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If you're planning that, you don't want somebody to get in a use of force and then do the interview.
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It doesn't mean you don't put them on the arrest team, but it does mean if they end up getting in a fight with this guy and punching him in the face, probably don't put him across the table from in the box, right?
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Just start the process of rapport building immediately upon interaction.
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Man, if I'm interviewing somebody and they tell me on the front end, like, hey, Leo, you're if once we get this dude, you're gonna talk to him.
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I try to not put hands on him.
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It's not because I'm scared, I am scared, but it's not because of that.
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It's because if I put hands on him, it'll mess up my rapport.
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I try to ride with them.
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I want to be in the car with them.
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I'm gonna, you can laugh at me if you want, but it works.
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And it gives people dozens and hundreds of years.
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I'm gonna get them some water.
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Say they get in a scuffle, say they run and they don't get beat up, but they just run and get caught and they're tired.
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They're handcuffed.
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I'll take them from the people that they just got in a little ruffian with.
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I'm like, hey, man, you need some water or something?
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Boom, boom, boom.
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Uh, somebody else searches them.
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Somebody else is doing the intrusive stuff.
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And I'm going, hey, you need some water?
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I saw your kids in the car.
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Who should we call to like get the kid picked up?
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Like, oh, can I not leaving?
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No, man, you're not like you just ran from the police, you're a fellow and you got a gun.
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Like, you're not leaving, but who should we call?
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Like, I show some empathy immediately.
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And that's what you should be doing.
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If you're the interviewer, plan in advance to start developing a rapport quickly.
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Be the good guy.
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Doesn't mean you have to suck up.
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It's not good cop, bad cop, bullshit, but it is like just being a good person to that person.
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Now let's talk about the planning.
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Again, keep in mind that this is where we are of dealing with your interviewee, the person you're talking to.
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What kind of person are they?
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Collect as much information as you can in advance.
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Are they intelligent or are they kind of dumb?
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Are they guarded?
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Are they a talker?
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Are they quiet?
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There's all different kinds of people.
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You may have seen the disc assessment.
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D I S-C.
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If you haven't Googled disk assessment, dominant, oh God, I'm gonna mess this up.
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Dominant influencer, steadfast, and compliant.
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And man, they can put you, they can put you in a category and it's almost offensive.
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I've been to a bunch of these classes and I'm an in Jesus, I'm an influencer, unfortunately.
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Don't whatever.
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But I talk a lot and dominant personalities, they generally don't.
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They're just different.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:56.480
And once you start understanding who the person is you're talking to, whether you're using the disc assessment or just, you know, some kind of outside evaluation from looking at their social media and listening to the deals they did, like, oh man, this dude's always quiet, or whatever, knowing who they are, trying to understand in advance, and you may be wrong and have to adjust once you get in the interview, but their values, their motivation to cooperate.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:03.200
Are they, is it is he a family man that just sells drugs to feed his family and have nice stuff?
00:16:03.439 --> 00:16:12.240
Is he a gang leader that is just power drunk and doesn't really care about his family at all?
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.639
Does he care about the future?
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:16.240
Does he care about his stuff?
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.639
Some of these guys are very materialistic.
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:21.439
And what does that mean you need to talk about in interview?
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.360
You need to plan to talk seizure.
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.159
You should go into that interview knowing seizure law.
00:16:26.319 --> 00:16:29.600
So you can be like, hey man, I saw you got a boat.
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:30.559
That's pretty cool.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.519
Like, you don't see a lot of boats in East St.
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.759
Louis in your neighborhood.
00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.720
Like, you don't see a lot of like$100,000 boats.
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.080
Be a shame if somebody like sees that.
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:46.720
You might see their eyes get real big when you start talking about taking their stuff.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.639
Man, I love your house.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.879
Might be a DEA house from now on.
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:51.519
I don't know.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:58.240
But whatever you're doing, try to figure out their motivation in advance.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.319
Again, you may have to adjust, but doing your homework.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.360
Their gang or group affiliation.
00:17:05.840 --> 00:17:09.279
You should know that, and you should know about that group.
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:18.079
If they're a Pyru blood from New York, you should know about that certain set they're in, if at all possible.
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:19.039
What drives them?
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.400
What kind of crime do they do?
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.359
Everything you can.
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.839
Learn that gang, learn that set, learn that mob that they're part of.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.119
Learn about their family.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:28.799
Do they have a family left?
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:34.240
Do they have uh man, a lot of these guys that gangbang have kids?
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:35.599
I'd say the majority.
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.400
Some of them love their kids and they're not in their life.
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.599
You know, they're in and out of prison, they feel all this guilt about it.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.400
Some of them don't care.
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.279
You know, it happens.
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.759
But some of them do care a lot about their kids.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:47.680
Some of them have moms that are sick.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:48.640
There's all kinds of stuff.
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.559
Listen to Tupac, Dear Mama, right?
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.920
It's a whole song to his mom.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.680
Tupac loved his mom.
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.400
So think about that.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.200
These people are humans and they have values.
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:06.240
You got to learn what they are so you can take the facts out of their head and put it in your damn report and bring it into court.
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.759
That's the goal.
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:09.440
Are they wealthy?
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:10.079
Are they poor?
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.599
And how did they grow up?
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.599
It can affect the tone of the conversation.
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:17.759
Are they struggling with addiction?
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:25.119
If they're going through heroin withdrawals, are they going to be different to talk to than somebody that's clean?
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.279
Absolutely, yes.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:36.240
People that are pill sick, that are just needing another opioid, man, they're going to be different.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.200
You should learn, and you want to know that on the front end.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.000
This is all prep.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.400
I'll try to stop saying that, but it's easy.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.240
I know because I've taught this class, and people start thinking about being in the interview.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.319
And that's not what we're talking about right now.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:54.480
We're talking about learning about them before the interview.
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:55.039
Okay.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.240
What are their prior experiences with law enforcement?
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.440
You can find that in your local, you know, your database that you have.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:08.319
Whatever you got for your city, run their name, look at their last, you know, all their reports from the last five years.
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:12.960
If they're always getting their ass whooped by the police, they're probably not going to like the police.
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:20.480
If they're always running, you know, you can see how they interacted in interviews sometimes, if they cooperated or not, depending on the database.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.400
So you can get a feel for what worked.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.319
You could even call the investigator.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.599
Hey, I see you interviewed Killa before.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:29.039
What'd you get to work on?
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.200
They might go, oh man, me and him are cool.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.879
I'll come over and talk to him for you if you want.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.599
I'll come sit in.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:34.799
Me and him are straight.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.000
We go back, like I bring his baby mama food or whatever.
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.279
When the kids are hungry, I've been looking out for this dude.
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.640
We're on good terms.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.200
So think about that, knowing what they've been through.
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:51.839
And that goes right along with their prior arrest history.
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:53.599
Have they beat three murders?
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.119
That dude's going to be different than somebody that's never been picked up before, never been in trouble.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.559
Have they done 20 years for murder and now they're out?
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.000
You should know that prior to interviewing them about a murder.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.200
They know the system.
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.279
They've been mirandized.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.440
They've been to prison and had jailhouse lawyers talk to them.
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.319
Big one, listen to their jail calls.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:22.079
A lot of these guys, man, we put them in and you may talk to them later.
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:30.559
Or if you catch them at the time, you know, say you catch them on September 1st, but you know you're planning to catch them, right?
00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.000
Pull their previous jail calls and listen to them a little bit.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:43.759
You can get a perfect window into their mind based on who they talk to, what they're talking about, whether they're directing a drug organization or calling their kids every night.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.599
That's a different approach to that person.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.240
Whether they're calling and saying, hey, how's the how's the vet looking?
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.359
How's my core vet?
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:53.200
You keeping that up?
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:54.640
They're probably about stuff.
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.279
If every call they're asking about their stuff, that's what you need to be talking about.
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:00.879
But listen to those.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:03.440
And then just all the different databases.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.160
There's so many.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.440
I'm not going to go way into them, but there's the local reports.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.599
There's social media, it's great.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:14.640
You can Google somebody's name and find a lot, pawn databases.
00:21:14.879 --> 00:21:19.680
I mean, all the deconfliction software that tells you who else is working cases.
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:21.359
Do they have driver's license?
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:22.720
Do they have a CDL?
00:21:22.879 --> 00:21:24.720
Do they have a pistol permit?
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.759
I mean, there's just a ton of options.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.759
There's almost limitless information.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:35.440
Your time and your effort level is the limit on how prepared you can be.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.720
So let's go into gang stuff a little bit.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:42.000
The gang rules are unique.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:48.079
And if you think they're all the same and they're just violent and bangers and blah, blah, blah, you're wrong.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.039
Some of them, you can't eat pork.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:22:00.960
Some of them, I mean, when I worked in the jail, I saw some blood rules that said like, thou shalt not mess with another homie's food.
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:02.400
Like they have rules.
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:03.599
That didn't make me feel like.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.000
Great about how they would treat my food, but that was a rule that they had.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.240
I've never seen that anywhere else.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:17.519
Some of them do research, some are very organized, some are not, and they're totally disorganized.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:31.759
So these little neighborhood groups, and some are totally organized with these rigid structures, and they do, you know, research into their members and their potential leadership to make sure they're not snitches.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.839
They've never worked with police before.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.440
They do their homework.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.640
So know who you're dealing with in that regard.
00:22:38.879 --> 00:22:42.240
Are they a more intelligent, sophisticated member?
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.400
Are they a higher ranking member?
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:46.960
And what do you know about the gang itself?
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:51.039
I'm telling you right now, if you go to a vice lord and say, When did you get beat in?
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:52.319
They don't do beat-ins.
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.160
They do palm-ups.
00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:57.839
Dudes put their palms up toward the sky and they recite something.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.519
They don't beat them in.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.640
So you would look stupid if you're like, when'd you get beat in?
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.160
You're just wrong.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.039
Or you go to a blood and say, When'd you get palmed up?
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.640
You need to know what the hell you're talking about.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:21.200
Man, I've had countless situations where the planning and prep made it possible.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.599
And I'll tell you one story real quick.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:30.240
I went to arrest a guy, I was attached to the marshals, and we got him.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.200
And I pulled his jail calls once he was in.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:40.640
He had like two rifle magazines taped together with bullets in it.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.160
And so I knew there was a gun, but we it was like hit and go.
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:49.440
So I got the rifle mags, and he's a felon, and he had warrants for like a shooting.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:55.200
And so we go and I pull his jail calls, and we didn't do a search warrant, and then we just moved on.
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:08.960
And he immediately said he he called the girl that was there, and he was like, Hey, I got somebody coming over to get that gun and then pills.
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.279
And she was like, Oh, all right.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:21.119
And so then he called another number and was like, Hey, I need you to go get a gun and some pills from this address, and gives him the address.
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.759
And I was able to run that number through some databases and find out who it was.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.839
He's a three-time convicted felon.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.559
So, long story short, I was able to put a lot of things together.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:39.440
I ended up being able to charge that guy and getting that gun through doing some homework and tracking that guy down.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.640
And I put that guy in prison.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:50.799
I got the gun, and basically I collected a bunch of facts that I wouldn't have collected had I not done that.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:57.599
Another time that I pulled jail calls, and again, that was prior to some witness interviews.
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:01.200
That wasn't a suspect interview, but that was going out talking to people.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:23.680
Another time I pulled jail calls, this wasn't really planning and prep phase, but I had a deal go awry, a deal went bad, ended up picking the dude up, but he called, and his first call out of jail was putting a hit on the informant, saying, I know that person is a snitch, kill him on site.
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.799
And he called like three different people and said that.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:36.000
So I got the informant safe and took out a warrant for a solicitation of murder and went and served him, and he got a bunch of time.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.879
And the informant lived to fight another day.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.400
Probably moved like four blocks away, thinking that's safe.
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.559
So let's get back to planning and preparation.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:48.160
The what.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:58.559
I went into the who of who is the interviewer, who do we want interviewing, and who are we going to interview?
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.839
Who's the interviewee?
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:01.279
Let's go into the what.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:03.519
What do we want to know?
00:26:04.879 --> 00:26:08.640
And that I mean, that's going to be case to case.
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.680
Is it a victim, suspect, witness?
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:13.119
Let's make it a suspect.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.000
What do we want to know?
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.000
We want to know if they did stuff that fits the elements of a certain crime.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.359
So part of the planning is knowing the elements of that crime.
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:31.920
If one of the elements of first degree murder in your state is planning and forethought, then you need to have that needs to be part of your interview, part of your conversation at some point.
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:37.119
Is that you need to go down the road of, so you didn't just show up over there.
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.519
Like you knew he was there, right?
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:40.960
Yeah, I knew he was there.
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.000
How'd you know that?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:43.440
Like, how that's pretty smart.
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:44.720
You know, I like to blow people's ego.
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:45.599
That's pretty smart.
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.279
Like, you got the location on him.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:49.279
I know he wasn't on Facebook Live, was he?
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:50.720
No, he wasn't on live.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:53.279
You know, I got my people told me.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.160
Oh, oh, you got you got informants like we do.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:57.599
And I'm like, Yeah, I got informants.
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:58.000
Okay.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.160
So somebody told you he was over there.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:00.720
All right.
00:27:00.879 --> 00:27:02.559
So where was the gun that you brought?
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.200
Did you have that at your house or did you have to go pick that up somewhere?
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:07.839
See, I didn't say, did you have a gun?
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:14.079
But I'm finding out, I'm I'm going through establishing their planning and their foresight.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.160
Uh he just told me how he found out.
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:16.879
Somebody told him.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.960
I mean, I ain't gonna tell you who it was, but my people told me.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.519
Okay, cool.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:21.039
So somebody told you who's over there.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.319
And where'd you get the gun?
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:24.319
Did you have it on you or did you have to go pick it up?
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:25.839
Oh no, I keep it on me.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.279
Okay, cool.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.799
So he just kind of talked about planning and foresight.
00:27:30.879 --> 00:27:34.000
He he said that's he had somebody looking for the guy.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.279
They found him and he had a gun ready, and then he went and killed them.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:39.279
He I would say he planned that murder.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:47.279
Most murders, you don't have to plan it like a year in advance, and you just need to show some level of planning, some level of prior planning.
00:27:48.879 --> 00:27:51.680
Was this a timeline event or was it a single event?
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:53.599
Can you establish a timeline?
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:58.319
And that'll, you know, we'll go into that a little bit with when, but that's part of the what as well.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:00.400
What kind of event was this?
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:02.160
Again, was there planning?
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:03.279
Now there's a timeline.
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:05.839
Where were you when you started thinking about killing this guy?
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.920
When you came, when we wouldn't say it that way, we would say, where were you when you got that call?
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.759
Where were you at when Buddy called you?
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:12.960
I was at the spot.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.799
What you're talking about your house or somewhere else?
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:15.839
You see what I'm saying?
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:17.519
That would be a timeline event.
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:23.200
Whereas just a single incident would be like, I was at the store, gotten a confrontation, shot.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.599
That's kind of a single incident.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.960
And then part of the what is what do you want?
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.400
Do you want a confession?
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:31.680
I already touched on this.
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:32.720
Do you want a lie?
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.400
Do you know he's gonna lie?
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:39.599
But that's way better than nothing because it's a lie that you can prove is a lie?
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.200
Do you want information on other suspects?
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:50.640
Other individuals that aren't suspects, other places that might be involved, places where evidence might be?
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.680
Do you want information on other activities?
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.440
Is this a group that's done multiple killings and you're onto them for one?
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:03.599
But as the conversation goes, you're like, this is kind of like a hit man kind of thing.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.200
This guy's a killer, man.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:07.680
And now you start talking about other situations.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.640
But if you've planned that in advance, you're ready to go down that road.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.039
If you already kind of know he might be a hitter.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.960
So let's go into a simple crime.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.359
Possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.720
That's in every state and it's in the federal system.
00:29:22.879 --> 00:29:24.960
Any of you could charge that at some point.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.079
Probably will.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.960
So what do you need to prove?
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.039
What are the elements of the crime?
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:40.000
That it's a firearm, that the person possessed it, that they are a convicted felon.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:46.160
They've been convicted of a felony in that state or in the federal system, or in a state, not that state.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:52.400
And generally, they want the person to know that they're prohibited.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.879
You can usually get that out of the paperwork.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:02.640
But those are the elements of the crime that the attorney has to prove in order to get a guilty at trial or a guilty plea.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:09.680
So you're going to want to plan how to question them about each of these without being too direct.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:12.640
You don't want to say, did you have a firearm?
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:13.599
Tell me about that.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.879
How do you know it shoots?
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.879
Did you possess the firearm?
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.920
Was it in your pants?
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.200
Was it in your hand?
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.119
Are you a convicted felon?
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:23.359
Do you know you can't have a gun as a felon?
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.480
Like that don't flow.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:29.920
So think about how you're going to question them about this without being super direct.
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:35.200
A couple of ways to do it are and to backtrack a bit.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:40.640
A lot of these subjects I'm going to interview over these next couple episodes, they have a lot of overlap.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.440
So I'm going to try to not be too repetitive, but interviewing is a flow.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.599
It is not rigid at all.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.119
So there is some repetition.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:58.400
I say the chronology of like we're starting with, you know, planning and then we're going into rapport.
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:00.960
That's general, but it's not hard and fast.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.720
So just keep that in mind that it there's going to be ebb and flow.
00:31:04.879 --> 00:31:11.680
And I'm going to talk during planning and prep about questioning techniques a little bit or about rapport building.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:12.640
And that's okay.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:13.200
All right.
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:14.160
Just bear with me.
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:20.079
So some ways, and you think about this in planning, to establish that they possess the firearm.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.640
Maybe knowledge of the firearm that was recovered.
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:24.160
Maybe they tell you the caliber.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:24.879
Oh, it's a nine.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:25.599
It's a silver nine.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.640
What kind of gun do we find in there?
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.920
Oh, it's a silver nine.
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:29.359
That's what's in there.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:31.680
How long you had that?
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.839
I didn't say, is that your gun?
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.759
I said how long you had that.
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:40.559
So just kind of have this in your head prior to the interview.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.039
Some different ways.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.759
Again, this is going into questioning, but it's something you plan.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:55.279
What deception might you use in order to get them to confess to the crime?
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.319
There's lots of different ways to do it.
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:08.079
This has been harped on at multiple levels of man, cops can lie to us, but we can't lie to them, blah, blah, blah.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:08.960
There's a difference.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.759
Cops are lying to get to the truth, which you can do.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:15.200
If your lie is designed to elicit the truth, you can do it.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.440
So it's very different than somebody that's lying to keep their ass out of hot water.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.440
So possible deceptions that you could use in this case.
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:27.440
Tell them the gun was used in a crime.
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.519
Hey, when did you come into possession of this?
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.759
Because it was used in a crime recently.
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.879
And I want to, I need to know who you got it from and how long you've had it.
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.039
I don't even really care about the gun situation.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.200
I care about the shooting situation.
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:46.559
And if they start thinking this was used in a shooting, they might just tell you, like, man, I just got that two weeks ago.
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.640
I got that off some dude.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.559
I didn't even know him, but I got that two weeks ago.
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:51.200
Boom.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:52.319
There was no shooting.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.559
He just confessed to possessing the gun.
00:32:54.879 --> 00:32:56.000
See what I did?
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:00.559
It's basically saying, like, I want a timeline of travel for this weapon.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.079
Where'd you get it from?
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:03.359
When did you get it?
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:04.559
Who'd you get it from?
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.519
Oh, I got it from a dude named Johnny.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.920
I don't know his real name, but he's always in front of this store.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.759
It's always some bullshit like that.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:14.480
Continued planning.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.160
Are they in custody?
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.240
I mean, this is this is part of the where.
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.480
You're planning where to do the interview.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:23.839
Are they in custody?
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.279
Are they in handcuffs?
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.079
Are there policies that govern your actions once they're in custody?
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.920
Do they have to be handcuffed to the floor?
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:39.119
Do they have to be in a police station in a locked room?
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:42.000
It's a lot to think about.
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.359
You need to follow the rules as well as get the confession.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.440
Is there a choice of room?
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:53.680
When you're planning where to be, I mean, I don't, I never sit with a table between me and my person.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.640
We've all heard that.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.640
And then you actually get in the box with people and you see cops all the time, just sit opposite them on the opposite side of the table.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.799
I sit right next to them on the bench usually.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:04.319
I'll touch somebody's leg.
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.480
I'll hang out and spend time with them.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:13.520
So just know what rooms you have available or what spaces you have available.
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.880
And do it by choice.
00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:18.480
Do it on purpose.
00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:27.760
Let's go ahead and take a break and we'll come back next time and we'll continue with the planning and preparation and the where to conduct an interview.
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:28.640
Thanks for listening.
00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:05.199
Good morning.
00:00:05.279 --> 00:00:08.640
It's Leo and welcome to a new month.
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:14.160
I want to spend the next several Fridays doing something a little bit different.
00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:20.960
So I may have some episodes sprinkled in the middle, but the main releases are going to be on the Fridays this month.
00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:30.880
And I do a lot of basic covering stuff that if you've been a cop for 10 years, been a detective, you're a sergeant, you probably don't need as much.
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:46.159
And today I want to go into something, and over the course of this month, something that I've taught at multiple levels, and I'm very comfortable teaching and helping you to build a better case.
00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:49.679
And that is more advanced interviewing.
00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.839
When I teach this in person, I like to have it be a dialogue.
00:00:54.159 --> 00:01:04.560
And that means I have a group of experienced investigators, and I'm not only teaching them, I'm learning from them, and we're learning from each other.
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:08.960
It's kind of like we're all sounding boards for each other.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.600
We're allowed to disagree with each other about what works.
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:13.600
We're allowed to give stories about what worked.
00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:23.920
It's not story time, but if it helps to illustrate a point, I encourage the investigators to, you know, tell their story, what worked for you, how did it work?
00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:24.960
How did you apply it?
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.600
Not just what did you do, but how did you apply it?
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.560
So that's what this next series is going to be on.
00:01:30.800 --> 00:01:37.520
Some of the areas, I'm not even going to say I think some of the areas that I'm going to cover are very neglected.
00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:50.880
And the way I'm going to cover the subject subjects is going to be chronologically throughout the course of an interview and in order of what I would call neglect.
00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:55.200
What do people neglect the most when they're doing an interview?
00:01:55.440 --> 00:02:00.400
The first two subjects that I'm going to cover are going to be planning and preparation for the interview.
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.480
I think that's the most neglected area of an interview.
00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:06.560
A lot of people just don't plan.
00:02:06.800 --> 00:02:09.599
They're like, I know this case in my head.
00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:11.599
Why would I need to plan anything?
00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:13.759
I know what information I want.
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:15.199
I want a confession.
00:02:15.359 --> 00:02:16.079
I know the case.
00:02:16.239 --> 00:02:17.439
I know the facts.
00:02:17.679 --> 00:02:19.359
I'm going in the box with this guy.
00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:20.799
I'm going in the box with this gal.
00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:22.159
I'm going to get a confession.
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:24.000
If I don't, it's somebody else's fault.
00:02:24.079 --> 00:02:25.840
I'm going to take no accountability.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:36.239
So planning and preparation, in my opinion, being the most neglected, with a close second being rapport building.
00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:40.319
And next episode, I'll go more into what that means and how to do it.
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:46.159
But it's just, it's building a realistic personal connection with your interviewee.
00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:55.679
Be that a victim, a witness, a suspect, whatever, whoever you're talking to, you need to build a rapport.
00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:57.919
So we're going to leave that for next Friday.
00:02:58.079 --> 00:03:01.280
This Friday we'll be talking about planning and preparation.
00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:06.879
How do you plan and prepare effectively to allow you to do what?
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.919
What do I always say?
00:03:08.079 --> 00:03:08.879
To collect facts.
00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.840
You want to collect all the facts from this person you can.
00:03:12.079 --> 00:03:17.599
Not collect lies, not collect untruths, not collect nothing because they don't like you.
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:21.679
But how do you plan in advance effectively?
00:03:22.079 --> 00:03:23.679
I've done this a lot.
00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:28.399
I do plan for every interview I do, victim, witness, suspect.
00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.599
And let's get into kind of how that looks for me.
00:03:32.399 --> 00:03:43.439
You know, I have these social media pages up, so you're completely encouraged to, you know, put something in the public comments on those, or send me a private message.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:45.679
Hey, I listened to your planning and prep episode.
00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.159
Here's something that I do that you didn't mention.
00:03:48.799 --> 00:03:52.319
And I'll do an amendment or something if it makes sense.
00:03:52.639 --> 00:04:00.799
So the things we uh things we're gonna think about, the who, what, where, when, why, how.
00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:06.079
And I'm talking about as far as the planning, not the information we're trying to collect.
00:04:06.239 --> 00:04:07.919
Who are we interviewing?
00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:09.919
Who is interviewing?
00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:12.719
What do we want?
00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:14.159
Where are we?
00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.160
When are we doing it?
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:19.600
Both time of day and the chronology of the investigation.
00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:25.360
At what point do you want to inject this interview into your fac collection process?
00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:27.360
Why are we interviewing the person?
00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:28.800
Do we want a confession?
00:04:29.039 --> 00:04:30.079
Do we want a lie?
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.240
Do we know they're gonna lie and we just want a lie that can be proven?
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:41.839
Do we know that they were there and them saying, I wasn't even out that night is just as good as uh whatever.
00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.800
Sometimes lies are great and it's all you're gonna get.
00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:45.599
And how?
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.560
Planning in advance the how.
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:51.599
And that does a couple things.
00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:59.599
It gets you thinking about who this person is, and it gets you thinking about alternatives when that, when and if that first plan fails.
00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:01.759
I'm not gonna say when because it doesn't always fail.
00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.399
Sometimes if your first plan is thought out, it works.
00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:09.759
And you're like, man, my approach worked on this person and they're talking to me, they're providing me info.
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:16.639
Other things to consider beforehand, the use of props, we'll go into that more.
00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:20.159
The statutes and the elements of the crime that you're trying to prove.
00:05:20.240 --> 00:05:24.240
If you're interviewing somebody and you're a cop, there's a crime that went on.
00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:25.279
So what are the elements?
00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:31.759
Whether you're talking to a suspect, victim, or witness, you should know the elements of the crime that you're looking into.
00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.560
Maybe not trying to prove, but investigating.
00:05:34.719 --> 00:05:45.839
If somebody's dead and it was a homicide, you should probably know the elements of manslaughter, murder, I don't know, overdose statutes, all of this stuff.
00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.959
Cutting off defenses, I'll get more into that.
00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:53.759
And case knowledge, we'll get into that, but that's that's fairly self-exclamatory.
00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:56.000
You you have to know your case.
00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:57.839
Let's start with the who.
00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:01.039
And again, this isn't who you're interviewing.
00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.120
I'm not talking about who are you talking to.
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:07.199
I'm talking about the interviewer roles.
00:06:07.599 --> 00:06:10.480
There should be a primary and a secondary, right?
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:12.639
Can those change?
00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:14.800
Absolutely, yes.
00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:24.959
If me and a partner go into the interview room and the plan, I know the case inside and out, and I'm planning to be primary, and we sit down, I've seen this happen countless times.
00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:32.000
Not as, not maybe not as aggressive as I'm about to give an example, but more subtle is just as important.
00:06:32.159 --> 00:06:33.360
You need to pick up on it.
00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:38.319
We sit down and they say, Leo, I don't like your ugly face.
00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.560
I'm not talking to you, but I'll talk to her.
00:06:41.039 --> 00:06:42.000
Me and her are cool.
00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:43.759
She's treating me right on the street.
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:45.360
I'll talk to her.
00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:48.800
Do you should I fight that?
00:06:49.039 --> 00:06:51.439
Should I let my ego ruin my case?
00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:53.279
And I go, nah, you're here to talk to me.
00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:54.240
This is my case, dog.
00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:55.199
All right, big dog.
00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:56.560
She doesn't even know the case.
00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:59.519
So she can't even speak knowledgeably on it.
00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.439
Like, I'm I'm just shoving my foot in my mouth at that point.
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:05.599
So you have a primary and a secondary.
00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:11.039
Secondary, your job is to be quiet and listen.
00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:16.480
If you're an interrupter or if your partner is an interrupter, don't take them in that room with you.
00:07:16.719 --> 00:07:20.560
You don't need two people constantly involved in this person.
00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:25.439
So the point is just think out who your primary and secondary people are.
00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:30.639
Do you want a nice person with a not so nice person, kind of gruff person?
00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.920
Do you want two abrasive people doing the interview together?
00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:38.480
They might turn into like this pack of dogs mentality and just get extra tough on people.
00:07:38.719 --> 00:07:40.240
So just think out your roles.
00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:41.759
Think out who you're bringing in.
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.319
If it's your case, I'll tell you this right now.
00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:49.120
It is okay to not bring somebody in there that causes problems in the booth.
00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:56.079
If they cause issues in the box, if they've yelled at your suspect before, I've had people yell at my suspect several times and shut them down.
00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:57.599
I'm not bringing them back in.
00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:58.719
And sometimes they volunteer.
00:07:58.879 --> 00:07:59.920
They lie, they think it's fun.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:01.839
And they're like, oh, I'll go in with you, Leo.
00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:02.800
I'll go in with you on this.
00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.439
And I'll go, I know that I already got somebody lined up.
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.759
I don't have to be mean, but I'm like, no, I already got somebody in mind.
00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:08.719
I appreciate it though.
00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:16.399
Like, no, you're cut from the team, brother, because you you yell at people all the time or you like slam down Miranda forms.
00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:17.920
You do stuff I don't like.
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.759
So I'm picking you, I'm very deliberate with who's doing the interview.
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:25.920
If it's your case, you don't have to be the interviewer.
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.319
If you suck at it, shoes on the other foot.
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.960
If you get really good at interviews, it doesn't have to be your case.
00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.279
You can tell people, like, hey, if you need help with the interview, just let me know.
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:38.319
I'll be glad to.
00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:46.240
And once they start seeing you get confessions or get cooperation out of victims and witnesses, they'll want you on the team for that.
00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:48.159
Notes versus recording.
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:49.600
Again, we're in the planning phase.
00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:50.960
What are you going to do?
00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:52.639
I don't like taking notes.
00:08:52.720 --> 00:09:00.399
I use redundant extra recorders because I hate losing recordings and, you know, whatever.
00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.360
But at the end of the day, the recording is the best evidence.
00:09:03.439 --> 00:09:10.399
And the notes are just something else that you have to put into evidence because those are discoverable.
00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:18.720
And just somebody sitting there taking notes, I feel like it rubs some people wrong.
00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:26.960
If, you know, if they're sitting there confessing to a murder and they see you writing down, I shot the girl in the face, and they look over and see that, they might stop.
00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:28.080
I don't like notes.
00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.679
I like camera and I like a recorder in the pocket.
00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:33.120
So there's two recorders going.
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:34.799
It's the best evidence anyway.
00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:36.639
And then I go through and I listen to that.
00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:37.600
But it's up to you.
00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.120
Just make a choice on the front end so you're not staggering around.
00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:49.679
The strengths and weaknesses of interview team members, just to go back to that, it's so immensely important.
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:54.799
Certain people are better than others as far as, you know, it's an art and a science.
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.200
And some people have the science down.
00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:02.399
They understand the rules, they know when to give Miranda, all this stuff.
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.319
They might know the process, but they got no art to them.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:07.279
They got no flow.
00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.080
They they can't build rapport with anybody.
00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.519
And it can also be the other way around.
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.799
They can have a lot of flow, but not really understand the rules.
00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:20.799
And we don't want that either, right?
00:10:21.439 --> 00:10:23.919
So case knowledge.
00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.639
Somebody in that room needs to know the case very well.
00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.519
Because otherwise you have to qualify the confession.
00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:53.919
If you're talking to your subject, your suspect, whatever you want to call them, and you don't know the case, you know, if you don't even know where the murder happened or the robbery or whatever you're looking into, or just uh it's not even just the where, it's gross case knowledge, very intimate case knowledge.
00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:59.840
It matters when the person you're talking to starts spitting out details very quickly.
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:08.879
And you're he you'll catch stuff if you actually know that case that doesn't match up or does match up and corroborates itself.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:11.679
So you need to know it inside and out.
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:13.679
You can't just send two people in there.
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:27.279
Again, if you're the person that is volunteering to do interviews because you like doing it and you've gotten good at it, like me, I love doing interviews and helping out a fellow case agent and getting them, you know, the information they need.
00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:31.919
I'm requiring kind of a brief on the front end.
00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.279
Like, hey, even if you just give me two minutes, tell me about this.
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:40.319
All right, we've bought like two Dracos from this guy and an ounce of meth.
00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.679
He's Crip, he's Grape Street Crip.
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:49.120
He hangs out with the grapes in South Memphis in the Lakeview Gardens area.
00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:50.879
Okay, what's his nickname?
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.559
Does he have kids?
00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:54.960
What'd you catch him with when you arrested him?
00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:57.279
Oh, yeah, he's got a couple kids, he's not in their life.
00:11:57.439 --> 00:12:00.480
His nickname's Killa and whatever.
00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:01.360
You get the point.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:03.519
I want to know a little bit about this person.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.000
I don't want to go in blind to this interview.
00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:10.559
So if you're if you're about to go in blind, just slow it down a bit.
00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:15.759
You don't have to run into the interview room and go, hey, can you can you talk to me a little bit?
00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:31.519
If you are the interviewer, man, when I did op plans, I would I will decide on the front end who's gonna be doing interviews.
00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:33.679
I'm assuming if I'm doing an arrest, it's gonna go.
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:35.120
That's that's the way I'm thinking.
00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:36.799
Like, we're gonna get this guy.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:39.360
And what are we doing after that?
00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:40.720
Who's collecting evidence?
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.360
Who's doing the interview, et cetera?
00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:49.759
If you're planning that, you don't want somebody to get in a use of force and then do the interview.
00:12:49.840 --> 00:13:01.200
It doesn't mean you don't put them on the arrest team, but it does mean if they end up getting in a fight with this guy and punching him in the face, probably don't put him across the table from in the box, right?
00:13:02.319 --> 00:13:08.480
Just start the process of rapport building immediately upon interaction.
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:15.759
Man, if I'm interviewing somebody and they tell me on the front end, like, hey, Leo, you're if once we get this dude, you're gonna talk to him.
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:17.679
I try to not put hands on him.
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:21.039
It's not because I'm scared, I am scared, but it's not because of that.
00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.639
It's because if I put hands on him, it'll mess up my rapport.
00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:27.200
I try to ride with them.
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.799
I want to be in the car with them.
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.600
I'm gonna, you can laugh at me if you want, but it works.
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.559
And it gives people dozens and hundreds of years.
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:35.679
I'm gonna get them some water.
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:40.720
Say they get in a scuffle, say they run and they don't get beat up, but they just run and get caught and they're tired.
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.240
They're handcuffed.
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.439
I'll take them from the people that they just got in a little ruffian with.
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:47.360
I'm like, hey, man, you need some water or something?
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:48.399
Boom, boom, boom.
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:49.840
Uh, somebody else searches them.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:51.840
Somebody else is doing the intrusive stuff.
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.000
And I'm going, hey, you need some water?
00:13:54.319 --> 00:13:55.759
I saw your kids in the car.
00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.480
Who should we call to like get the kid picked up?
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:00.559
Like, oh, can I not leaving?
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.439
No, man, you're not like you just ran from the police, you're a fellow and you got a gun.
00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.439
Like, you're not leaving, but who should we call?
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:09.759
Like, I show some empathy immediately.
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.120
And that's what you should be doing.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:17.919
If you're the interviewer, plan in advance to start developing a rapport quickly.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:18.879
Be the good guy.
00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:20.240
Doesn't mean you have to suck up.
00:14:20.319 --> 00:14:26.000
It's not good cop, bad cop, bullshit, but it is like just being a good person to that person.
00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:28.960
Now let's talk about the planning.
00:14:29.439 --> 00:14:35.919
Again, keep in mind that this is where we are of dealing with your interviewee, the person you're talking to.
00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.200
What kind of person are they?
00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:44.960
Collect as much information as you can in advance.
00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.840
Are they intelligent or are they kind of dumb?
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:49.279
Are they guarded?
00:14:49.439 --> 00:14:50.639
Are they a talker?
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:52.240
Are they quiet?
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.120
There's all different kinds of people.
00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.840
You may have seen the disc assessment.
00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:59.519
D I S-C.
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.799
If you haven't Googled disk assessment, dominant, oh God, I'm gonna mess this up.
00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.919
Dominant influencer, steadfast, and compliant.
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:12.879
And man, they can put you, they can put you in a category and it's almost offensive.
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:18.000
I've been to a bunch of these classes and I'm an in Jesus, I'm an influencer, unfortunately.
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:19.039
Don't whatever.
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:24.559
But I talk a lot and dominant personalities, they generally don't.
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:25.519
They're just different.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:56.480
And once you start understanding who the person is you're talking to, whether you're using the disc assessment or just, you know, some kind of outside evaluation from looking at their social media and listening to the deals they did, like, oh man, this dude's always quiet, or whatever, knowing who they are, trying to understand in advance, and you may be wrong and have to adjust once you get in the interview, but their values, their motivation to cooperate.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:03.200
Are they, is it is he a family man that just sells drugs to feed his family and have nice stuff?
00:16:03.439 --> 00:16:12.240
Is he a gang leader that is just power drunk and doesn't really care about his family at all?
00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.639
Does he care about the future?
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:16.240
Does he care about his stuff?
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.639
Some of these guys are very materialistic.
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:21.439
And what does that mean you need to talk about in interview?
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.360
You need to plan to talk seizure.
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:26.159
You should go into that interview knowing seizure law.
00:16:26.319 --> 00:16:29.600
So you can be like, hey man, I saw you got a boat.
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:30.559
That's pretty cool.
00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.519
Like, you don't see a lot of boats in East St.
00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.759
Louis in your neighborhood.
00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.720
Like, you don't see a lot of like$100,000 boats.
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.080
Be a shame if somebody like sees that.
00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:46.720
You might see their eyes get real big when you start talking about taking their stuff.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:48.639
Man, I love your house.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:50.879
Might be a DEA house from now on.
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:51.519
I don't know.
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:58.240
But whatever you're doing, try to figure out their motivation in advance.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.319
Again, you may have to adjust, but doing your homework.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.360
Their gang or group affiliation.
00:17:05.840 --> 00:17:09.279
You should know that, and you should know about that group.
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:18.079
If they're a Pyru blood from New York, you should know about that certain set they're in, if at all possible.
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:19.039
What drives them?
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.400
What kind of crime do they do?
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.359
Everything you can.
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.839
Learn that gang, learn that set, learn that mob that they're part of.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:27.119
Learn about their family.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:28.799
Do they have a family left?
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:34.240
Do they have uh man, a lot of these guys that gangbang have kids?
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:35.599
I'd say the majority.
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:38.400
Some of them love their kids and they're not in their life.
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.599
You know, they're in and out of prison, they feel all this guilt about it.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.400
Some of them don't care.
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.279
You know, it happens.
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.759
But some of them do care a lot about their kids.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:47.680
Some of them have moms that are sick.
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:48.640
There's all kinds of stuff.
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.559
Listen to Tupac, Dear Mama, right?
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.920
It's a whole song to his mom.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.680
Tupac loved his mom.
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.400
So think about that.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:59.200
These people are humans and they have values.
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:06.240
You got to learn what they are so you can take the facts out of their head and put it in your damn report and bring it into court.
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:07.759
That's the goal.
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:09.440
Are they wealthy?
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:10.079
Are they poor?
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.599
And how did they grow up?
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.599
It can affect the tone of the conversation.
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:17.759
Are they struggling with addiction?
00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:25.119
If they're going through heroin withdrawals, are they going to be different to talk to than somebody that's clean?
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.279
Absolutely, yes.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:36.240
People that are pill sick, that are just needing another opioid, man, they're going to be different.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.200
You should learn, and you want to know that on the front end.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.000
This is all prep.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.400
I'll try to stop saying that, but it's easy.
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.240
I know because I've taught this class, and people start thinking about being in the interview.
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.319
And that's not what we're talking about right now.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:54.480
We're talking about learning about them before the interview.
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:55.039
Okay.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.240
What are their prior experiences with law enforcement?
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.440
You can find that in your local, you know, your database that you have.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:08.319
Whatever you got for your city, run their name, look at their last, you know, all their reports from the last five years.
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:12.960
If they're always getting their ass whooped by the police, they're probably not going to like the police.
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:20.480
If they're always running, you know, you can see how they interacted in interviews sometimes, if they cooperated or not, depending on the database.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.400
So you can get a feel for what worked.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.319
You could even call the investigator.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.599
Hey, I see you interviewed Killa before.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:29.039
What'd you get to work on?
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:31.200
They might go, oh man, me and him are cool.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.879
I'll come over and talk to him for you if you want.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:33.599
I'll come sit in.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:34.799
Me and him are straight.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:38.000
We go back, like I bring his baby mama food or whatever.
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.279
When the kids are hungry, I've been looking out for this dude.
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.640
We're on good terms.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.200
So think about that, knowing what they've been through.
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:51.839
And that goes right along with their prior arrest history.
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:53.599
Have they beat three murders?
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.119
That dude's going to be different than somebody that's never been picked up before, never been in trouble.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.559
Have they done 20 years for murder and now they're out?
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.000
You should know that prior to interviewing them about a murder.
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.200
They know the system.
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.279
They've been mirandized.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:13.440
They've been to prison and had jailhouse lawyers talk to them.
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.319
Big one, listen to their jail calls.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:22.079
A lot of these guys, man, we put them in and you may talk to them later.
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:30.559
Or if you catch them at the time, you know, say you catch them on September 1st, but you know you're planning to catch them, right?
00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.000
Pull their previous jail calls and listen to them a little bit.
00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:43.759
You can get a perfect window into their mind based on who they talk to, what they're talking about, whether they're directing a drug organization or calling their kids every night.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:45.599
That's a different approach to that person.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.240
Whether they're calling and saying, hey, how's the how's the vet looking?
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.359
How's my core vet?
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:53.200
You keeping that up?
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:54.640
They're probably about stuff.
00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:59.279
If every call they're asking about their stuff, that's what you need to be talking about.
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:00.879
But listen to those.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:03.440
And then just all the different databases.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.160
There's so many.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.440
I'm not going to go way into them, but there's the local reports.
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.599
There's social media, it's great.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:14.640
You can Google somebody's name and find a lot, pawn databases.
00:21:14.879 --> 00:21:19.680
I mean, all the deconfliction software that tells you who else is working cases.
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:21.359
Do they have driver's license?
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:22.720
Do they have a CDL?
00:21:22.879 --> 00:21:24.720
Do they have a pistol permit?
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.759
I mean, there's just a ton of options.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:29.759
There's almost limitless information.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:35.440
Your time and your effort level is the limit on how prepared you can be.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.720
So let's go into gang stuff a little bit.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:42.000
The gang rules are unique.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:48.079
And if you think they're all the same and they're just violent and bangers and blah, blah, blah, you're wrong.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.039
Some of them, you can't eat pork.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:22:00.960
Some of them, I mean, when I worked in the jail, I saw some blood rules that said like, thou shalt not mess with another homie's food.
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:02.400
Like they have rules.
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:03.599
That didn't make me feel like.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.000
Great about how they would treat my food, but that was a rule that they had.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.240
I've never seen that anywhere else.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:17.519
Some of them do research, some are very organized, some are not, and they're totally disorganized.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:31.759
So these little neighborhood groups, and some are totally organized with these rigid structures, and they do, you know, research into their members and their potential leadership to make sure they're not snitches.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.839
They've never worked with police before.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:35.440
They do their homework.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:38.640
So know who you're dealing with in that regard.
00:22:38.879 --> 00:22:42.240
Are they a more intelligent, sophisticated member?
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.400
Are they a higher ranking member?
00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:46.960
And what do you know about the gang itself?
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:51.039
I'm telling you right now, if you go to a vice lord and say, When did you get beat in?
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:52.319
They don't do beat-ins.
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.160
They do palm-ups.
00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:57.839
Dudes put their palms up toward the sky and they recite something.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.519
They don't beat them in.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.640
So you would look stupid if you're like, when'd you get beat in?
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.160
You're just wrong.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.039
Or you go to a blood and say, When'd you get palmed up?
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.640
You need to know what the hell you're talking about.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:21.200
Man, I've had countless situations where the planning and prep made it possible.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:23.599
And I'll tell you one story real quick.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:30.240
I went to arrest a guy, I was attached to the marshals, and we got him.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:35.200
And I pulled his jail calls once he was in.
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:40.640
He had like two rifle magazines taped together with bullets in it.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.160
And so I knew there was a gun, but we it was like hit and go.
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:49.440
So I got the rifle mags, and he's a felon, and he had warrants for like a shooting.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:55.200
And so we go and I pull his jail calls, and we didn't do a search warrant, and then we just moved on.
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:08.960
And he immediately said he he called the girl that was there, and he was like, Hey, I got somebody coming over to get that gun and then pills.
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.279
And she was like, Oh, all right.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:21.119
And so then he called another number and was like, Hey, I need you to go get a gun and some pills from this address, and gives him the address.
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.759
And I was able to run that number through some databases and find out who it was.
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.839
He's a three-time convicted felon.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:32.559
So, long story short, I was able to put a lot of things together.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:39.440
I ended up being able to charge that guy and getting that gun through doing some homework and tracking that guy down.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.640
And I put that guy in prison.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:50.799
I got the gun, and basically I collected a bunch of facts that I wouldn't have collected had I not done that.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:57.599
Another time that I pulled jail calls, and again, that was prior to some witness interviews.
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:01.200
That wasn't a suspect interview, but that was going out talking to people.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:23.680
Another time I pulled jail calls, this wasn't really planning and prep phase, but I had a deal go awry, a deal went bad, ended up picking the dude up, but he called, and his first call out of jail was putting a hit on the informant, saying, I know that person is a snitch, kill him on site.
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.799
And he called like three different people and said that.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:36.000
So I got the informant safe and took out a warrant for a solicitation of murder and went and served him, and he got a bunch of time.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.879
And the informant lived to fight another day.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.400
Probably moved like four blocks away, thinking that's safe.
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.559
So let's get back to planning and preparation.
00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:48.160
The what.
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:58.559
I went into the who of who is the interviewer, who do we want interviewing, and who are we going to interview?
00:25:58.720 --> 00:25:59.839
Who's the interviewee?
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:01.279
Let's go into the what.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:03.519
What do we want to know?
00:26:04.879 --> 00:26:08.640
And that I mean, that's going to be case to case.
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.680
Is it a victim, suspect, witness?
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:13.119
Let's make it a suspect.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.000
What do we want to know?
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.000
We want to know if they did stuff that fits the elements of a certain crime.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.359
So part of the planning is knowing the elements of that crime.
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:31.920
If one of the elements of first degree murder in your state is planning and forethought, then you need to have that needs to be part of your interview, part of your conversation at some point.
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:37.119
Is that you need to go down the road of, so you didn't just show up over there.
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.519
Like you knew he was there, right?
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:40.960
Yeah, I knew he was there.
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.000
How'd you know that?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:43.440
Like, how that's pretty smart.
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:44.720
You know, I like to blow people's ego.
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:45.599
That's pretty smart.
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:47.279
Like, you got the location on him.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:49.279
I know he wasn't on Facebook Live, was he?
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:50.720
No, he wasn't on live.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:53.279
You know, I got my people told me.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.160
Oh, oh, you got you got informants like we do.
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:57.599
And I'm like, Yeah, I got informants.
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:58.000
Okay.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.160
So somebody told you he was over there.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:00.720
All right.
00:27:00.879 --> 00:27:02.559
So where was the gun that you brought?
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.200
Did you have that at your house or did you have to go pick that up somewhere?
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:07.839
See, I didn't say, did you have a gun?
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:14.079
But I'm finding out, I'm I'm going through establishing their planning and their foresight.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.160
Uh he just told me how he found out.
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:16.879
Somebody told him.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.960
I mean, I ain't gonna tell you who it was, but my people told me.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.519
Okay, cool.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:21.039
So somebody told you who's over there.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:22.319
And where'd you get the gun?
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:24.319
Did you have it on you or did you have to go pick it up?
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:25.839
Oh no, I keep it on me.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:27.279
Okay, cool.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.799
So he just kind of talked about planning and foresight.
00:27:30.879 --> 00:27:34.000
He he said that's he had somebody looking for the guy.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.279
They found him and he had a gun ready, and then he went and killed them.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:39.279
He I would say he planned that murder.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:47.279
Most murders, you don't have to plan it like a year in advance, and you just need to show some level of planning, some level of prior planning.
00:27:48.879 --> 00:27:51.680
Was this a timeline event or was it a single event?
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:53.599
Can you establish a timeline?
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:58.319
And that'll, you know, we'll go into that a little bit with when, but that's part of the what as well.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:00.400
What kind of event was this?
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:02.160
Again, was there planning?
00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:03.279
Now there's a timeline.
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:05.839
Where were you when you started thinking about killing this guy?
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.920
When you came, when we wouldn't say it that way, we would say, where were you when you got that call?
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.759
Where were you at when Buddy called you?
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:12.960
I was at the spot.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.799
What you're talking about your house or somewhere else?
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:15.839
You see what I'm saying?
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:17.519
That would be a timeline event.
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:23.200
Whereas just a single incident would be like, I was at the store, gotten a confrontation, shot.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.599
That's kind of a single incident.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.960
And then part of the what is what do you want?
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.400
Do you want a confession?
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:31.680
I already touched on this.
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:32.720
Do you want a lie?
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.400
Do you know he's gonna lie?
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:39.599
But that's way better than nothing because it's a lie that you can prove is a lie?
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.200
Do you want information on other suspects?
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:50.640
Other individuals that aren't suspects, other places that might be involved, places where evidence might be?
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.680
Do you want information on other activities?
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.440
Is this a group that's done multiple killings and you're onto them for one?
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:03.599
But as the conversation goes, you're like, this is kind of like a hit man kind of thing.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.200
This guy's a killer, man.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:07.680
And now you start talking about other situations.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.640
But if you've planned that in advance, you're ready to go down that road.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.039
If you already kind of know he might be a hitter.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.960
So let's go into a simple crime.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.359
Possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.720
That's in every state and it's in the federal system.
00:29:22.879 --> 00:29:24.960
Any of you could charge that at some point.
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.079
Probably will.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.960
So what do you need to prove?
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:31.039
What are the elements of the crime?
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:40.000
That it's a firearm, that the person possessed it, that they are a convicted felon.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:46.160
They've been convicted of a felony in that state or in the federal system, or in a state, not that state.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:52.400
And generally, they want the person to know that they're prohibited.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.879
You can usually get that out of the paperwork.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:02.640
But those are the elements of the crime that the attorney has to prove in order to get a guilty at trial or a guilty plea.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:09.680
So you're going to want to plan how to question them about each of these without being too direct.
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:12.640
You don't want to say, did you have a firearm?
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:13.599
Tell me about that.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:14.879
How do you know it shoots?
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:16.879
Did you possess the firearm?
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.920
Was it in your pants?
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.200
Was it in your hand?
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.119
Are you a convicted felon?
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:23.359
Do you know you can't have a gun as a felon?
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.480
Like that don't flow.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:29.920
So think about how you're going to question them about this without being super direct.
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:35.200
A couple of ways to do it are and to backtrack a bit.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:40.640
A lot of these subjects I'm going to interview over these next couple episodes, they have a lot of overlap.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.440
So I'm going to try to not be too repetitive, but interviewing is a flow.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.599
It is not rigid at all.
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.119
So there is some repetition.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:58.400
I say the chronology of like we're starting with, you know, planning and then we're going into rapport.
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:00.960
That's general, but it's not hard and fast.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.720
So just keep that in mind that it there's going to be ebb and flow.
00:31:04.879 --> 00:31:11.680
And I'm going to talk during planning and prep about questioning techniques a little bit or about rapport building.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:12.640
And that's okay.
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:13.200
All right.
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:14.160
Just bear with me.
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:20.079
So some ways, and you think about this in planning, to establish that they possess the firearm.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.640
Maybe knowledge of the firearm that was recovered.
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:24.160
Maybe they tell you the caliber.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:24.879
Oh, it's a nine.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:25.599
It's a silver nine.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.640
What kind of gun do we find in there?
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.920
Oh, it's a silver nine.
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:29.359
That's what's in there.
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:31.680
How long you had that?
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.839
I didn't say, is that your gun?
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.759
I said how long you had that.
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:40.559
So just kind of have this in your head prior to the interview.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.039
Some different ways.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:49.759
Again, this is going into questioning, but it's something you plan.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:55.279
What deception might you use in order to get them to confess to the crime?
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:58.319
There's lots of different ways to do it.
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:08.079
This has been harped on at multiple levels of man, cops can lie to us, but we can't lie to them, blah, blah, blah.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:08.960
There's a difference.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:11.759
Cops are lying to get to the truth, which you can do.
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:15.200
If your lie is designed to elicit the truth, you can do it.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.440
So it's very different than somebody that's lying to keep their ass out of hot water.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.440
So possible deceptions that you could use in this case.
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:27.440
Tell them the gun was used in a crime.
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.519
Hey, when did you come into possession of this?
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.759
Because it was used in a crime recently.
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.879
And I want to, I need to know who you got it from and how long you've had it.
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:39.039
I don't even really care about the gun situation.
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:41.200
I care about the shooting situation.
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:46.559
And if they start thinking this was used in a shooting, they might just tell you, like, man, I just got that two weeks ago.
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:48.640
I got that off some dude.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.559
I didn't even know him, but I got that two weeks ago.
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:51.200
Boom.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:52.319
There was no shooting.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.559
He just confessed to possessing the gun.
00:32:54.879 --> 00:32:56.000
See what I did?
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:00.559
It's basically saying, like, I want a timeline of travel for this weapon.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.079
Where'd you get it from?
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:03.359
When did you get it?
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:04.559
Who'd you get it from?
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.519
Oh, I got it from a dude named Johnny.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.920
I don't know his real name, but he's always in front of this store.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:11.759
It's always some bullshit like that.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:14.480
Continued planning.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.160
Are they in custody?
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.240
I mean, this is this is part of the where.
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.480
You're planning where to do the interview.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:23.839
Are they in custody?
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:25.279
Are they in handcuffs?
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.079
Are there policies that govern your actions once they're in custody?
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.920
Do they have to be handcuffed to the floor?
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:39.119
Do they have to be in a police station in a locked room?
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:42.000
It's a lot to think about.
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.359
You need to follow the rules as well as get the confession.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.440
Is there a choice of room?
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:53.680
When you're planning where to be, I mean, I don't, I never sit with a table between me and my person.
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:54.640
We've all heard that.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.640
And then you actually get in the box with people and you see cops all the time, just sit opposite them on the opposite side of the table.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.799
I sit right next to them on the bench usually.
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:04.319
I'll touch somebody's leg.
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.480
I'll hang out and spend time with them.
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:13.520
So just know what rooms you have available or what spaces you have available.
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:16.880
And do it by choice.
00:34:17.040 --> 00:34:18.480
Do it on purpose.
00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:27.760
Let's go ahead and take a break and we'll come back next time and we'll continue with the planning and preparation and the where to conduct an interview.
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:28.640
Thanks for listening.
