WEBVTT
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So I have been working on this training program called the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model through the Polyvagel Institute.
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And it has been very interesting.
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Very, very interesting.
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It's like a somatic-based therapy to understand one's stress responses and to develop like a what they call like a shift, a felt sense, a shift in your stress as you acknowledge what you're experiencing.
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So it's very meditative too.
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I really enjoy it.
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But at the end, um, it's just like another certification.
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So something to put on the resin the website.
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Uh it's like a new service I can offer.
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Oh, did you finish your website?
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No, I'm still working on it.
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Um, I'm not doing it.
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I've decided to hire somebody.
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Yeah.
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The stuff you showed me, was that something you had created, or that was no, uh, that was what my designer had come up with.
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Nice.
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Yeah, so I'm having she's um helping me.
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Uh she's really very responsive and very um, like she truly wants to understand the business.
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That's good.
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Yeah, this is what she does full-time website design.
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So yeah, so far so good.
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Um, she's gonna do the actual website come February.
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So that's on my today's list is to do more of the prep work.
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She's really organized.
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Um, she provides like these Google Doc folders, and then each doc, each folder has like one specific document or concept that you have to work on.
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And so I'm just going through it.
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So, like she did my branding, and um, like, you know, one page was like all about like um like how do I want people to feel when they look at my brand?
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How do I want people, you know, what do I want to convey about myself through my brand?
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Then like the third page is, you know, what sort of um colors do I really like?
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What uh fonts do I really like?
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And then I had to create a Pinterest board of imagery of um like my style, like, you know, in terms of everything, like architecture, landscape, even animals and pets.
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Um you know, if I could, if I could pick my dream bedroom, you know, give her 10 pictures of what my dream bedroom, my dream office, my dream living room would look like.
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And so it's from that that she kind of gets a sense of who I am, and then she created, she works with a graphic designer to come up with the design.
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So we came up with this concept of a passport stamp because I like the like kind of the metaphor of like, you know, psychotherapy as being like traveling through time.
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Um, and so yeah, so this is a passport stamp with my name and it says EMDR therapy works on it, and then it has a B just to represent Melissa.
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That's cool.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, so I'm gonna use her again when I start my second business when I get into the coach, when I develop my coaching program.
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And then Mike started a business, so he's gonna use her for hopefully use her for that too.
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Yeah, which is pretty good.
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When are you starting the coaching?
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Sometime this year.
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I got two boys going into college, so I gotta do it quickly.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I did that over the summer, I think.
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And that pulled in like 11k just in six months.
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So that was cool.
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That was really cool.
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Yeah, I just like it's also even if you're not just being a coach, but have like a therapy practice also, it's also it's very helpful when you stumble across someone that truly needs support, or especially like like family reunification and when they're in different states and stuff, where we're so constrained by a licensure.
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If there's no medical necessity, it's it's important that they have someone that's skilled.
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And the risk is if we as therapists don't also have like a coaching uh business too, they're gonna get they're gonna meet with someone that is just a coach that doesn't have uh like true quality training.
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Yeah, so it's like a coach we are immensely overqualified.
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Um I think it's great.
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I think it's important.
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Um and some people get butthurt because you're like bypassing these like different regulatory bodies and all this, and I'm like all right, well, you know what?
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Keep taking your Aetna and we're seeing 40 people a week, and I'll do my own thing.
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Thank you for sharing.
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Yeah, yeah.
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You want to work with the system, like you go for it, bro.
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Yeah, oh my god.
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Let me know how that works out for you.
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It's horrible.
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I've had to like refer people to um like specialists, because I don't specialize, for example, in OCD.
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Like, no, you can use EMDR to treat OCD, but unfortunately, people have this idea that exposure therapy is like the gold standard, which is kind of silly, but okay, whatever.
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And um, so I've reached out to people's insurance companies to try to get them to see specialists, and they're like, no, you know, they can just go to any, just any, you know, therapist, or you can keep seeing them.
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And I'm like, no, I mean, they need someone who's completely who's seen this presentation time and time again and can give them a clear treatment plan.
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Yeah.
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And uh yeah, so it's very frustrating.
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Yeah, I met uh with someone last month, a guest for the podcast, um, that specializes in neurodivergence, which was good for me because it's easy for me to write off all that based on the social media buzzwords.
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But it was interesting to hear um her take and perspective on how you have to adjust the way in which you treat someone who has like legitimate ADHD or like obviously like a autism or or something like that.
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And it just also uh reaffirmed that I have ADHD.
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I was like, so you know, I thought I s I thought I maybe worked through all that, and then I was listening like, no, I've just adapted.
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It's still right there.
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Because she used some some interesting term like um there's three, I can't remember what the third uh is, but it's one is um masking and then one's adapting.
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So it's about the transformation of someone with you know, say ADHD throughout childhood, adolescence, and then into adulthood.
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Like some people can hide it and mask it, some people learn how to make it a superpower.
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And then I guess the other one is like some they're they're debilitated by it, they're not functioning.
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Yeah, I could see that.
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Yeah, I had a client use that phrase masking in session too, and but she was using it more to describe um like hiding her true feelings to present as though she's cheerful.
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Yeah.
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So I thought that was a that was a good idea.
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She came she like they uh came up with that, or did you reflect that and then they they noticed it?
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Uh it was a process to get her to use that word because um like in session she would present like she's coping really, really well.
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And so, but then she came back the next time we were starting to process a memory and we didn't finish it.
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We were still in the processing phase and it was technically an incomplete session.
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And so she came back the next session and just said how she sat on the couch for a really long period of time in this dorsal vagal shutdown state.
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And so I was a little surprised to her for her to say that because she's never described ever experiencing that.
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And so finally, you know, I pointed that out like the incongruence of um, you know, I've been working with her for a couple of years now, and this is the first time she's ever described that.
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But what she was saying in session sounded like this happens somewhat frequently.
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And so um, yeah, she finally goes, Well, when I come in here, I really mask.
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And I was like, Well, we need to stop doing that.
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I don't think I said it like that, but I was like, no, I mean, this is the place to describe, you know, what's really going on so that we can get feedback.
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Because like I need to know what's happening in between sessions to inform where we go next with the protocol.
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So that her being transparent about what she'd experienced with that dorsal vagal shutdowns phase really informed me, okay, this memory is too big.
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We need to go deeper in time to maybe a quote unquote smaller memory with a younger self because the memory we've been working on doesn't have the the the ego strength, if you will, creating like a flooding.
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Yeah, I mean, flooding, I mean, no, because she wasn't getting flooded in session because she was really staying within her window of tolerance, but it's when she leaves and then reflects later.
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Um, that's when she's flooding, right?
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I guess I mean I guess maybe she's kind of leaving, she's going into a dorsal vagal shutdown stage.
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So it's kind of like I told her, like, you know, there's no thing as mistakes, it's always just feedback.
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So any feedback you can give me helps me pivot as to what you're experiencing.
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But you know, there's nothing wrong with a dorsal vagal shutdown stage.
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I mean, it's just feedback, it's information.
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And so I was like, you can do one of two things.
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You can either let it ride until you naturally come out of it, or you know, you can actively work your way out of it if sitting on the couch for a long period of time is inconvenient.
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You know, clearly we don't, not all of us can afford to do that.
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And there are ways to get out of those, um, you know, to find safety to come back into a ventral vagal state.
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So she has a PR manager present in session.
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You're thinking about masking.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Very good.
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So that's that's become adaptive somehow.
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Oh, yeah.
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I mean, as a woman in the world, yeah.
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I mean, as an American woman, that's expected.
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You can't just walk around without your PR mask on, especially like if you have a mom and you have a child in public school, for example.
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Yeah, you're expected to be, you know, pleasant and socially engaging.
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And so, yeah, so it's performative.
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But it's very interesting because my practicum supervisor back when I was in graduate school warned me of that.
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She said, Melissa, you have to be very careful because people will present as though because they want you to light them.
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They will present as though Yeah, we actually talked about last time we met.
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Yeah.
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Ironically.
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And so I those words, like, I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but like you'll hear something and there's a part of you that just knows what the person's saying is deeply true, almost prophetic.
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And I've held on to that for 20 years.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I wonder what that's about.
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Like what do you show or display that invites someone in to perform or to like seek approval?
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Oh, I've told people have told me it's I present as though I'm very calm and I have everything together.
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Yeah, I probably have a similar display.
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You don't?
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Is that what you said?
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No, I said I probably have a similar display.
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You and I had, but I had to do that though, because my mother was completely dysregulated as a kid.
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And somebody had to be the you know, the adult in the room, you know.
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No, I was in a I was in a meeting last night, and this guy said if I can no no longer resent my mother, then who do I have to blame?
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Yeah.
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I was like, ooh.
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Like, damn, alright.
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I was like not really paying attention.
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I just heard that.
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I was like, oh shit.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Because it's so easy for like a like, you know, I I it's a constant thing I work through with resentments of formative figures, but it's so it can so easily be really one of the main point constructs of identity is like a resentment towards someone.
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It is a inform every part of your narrative and like every part, it's it can be like the entire lifespan.
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And it's not it's not for me anymore, but it's still part of it, and it can be, right?
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It's like that stuff can become activated.
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Repeat what he said again.
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If if I can no longer resent my mother, then who do I have to blame?
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Yes.
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And that I think can also point to why sometimes people don't make progress in psychotherapy, right?
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Because if we keep working on one's relationship with whatever parental figure, you know, or person in their life, ex-husband, the yeah, then the there's like a deep well of grief and shame that might come, whether it's rational or not, I don't know.
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But um yeah, that somebody doesn't that they haven't spent the time working on themselves.
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Yeah, I mean, I you know, I work with people of all ages, and um a lot of people are still processing divorces that have happened years ago.
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Right.
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And, you know, if that gets resolved where I don't have my ex-husband to blame anymore, for example, then it's like I have to acknowledge I didn't take responsibility for something, possibly.
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Yeah, like uh responsibility for potentially contributing to the dysfunction or responsibility for the healing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and and moving on with your life in whatever way that looks for you.
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Letting go.
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Yeah.
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Because like as Marshall Linehan said, you know, um, we have to we all want to seek a life that's well lived.
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I'm paraphrasing here.
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And, you know, that looks different for everybody.
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But if somebody's life well lived is rooted in blaming and blaming and blaming somebody, I would imagine that when that blame is finally put down, there's gonna be grief that they've they maybe misuse their time.
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It's terrifying.
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We've all we've all met someone who's older that has lived their entire life that way, where they're just angry and bitter and resentful and and consistently victimize themselves.
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And when they interact with family, it's just utter chaos, and it just creates this spiral within the entire system.
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It's so exhausting and terrifying to envision like an entire life being led that way.
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Yeah, I mean, that reminds me of so many people we met when we worked at the substance use treatment center.
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Sure.
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Yeah, who like got I mean, you would think that way they were talking that the the divorce or the you know the break in the relationship or whatever it was just happened like three days ago.
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But then you come to find out listening to their story, this is something that really happened 35, 40, 50 years ago.
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And it's still impacting every decision they make in the day-to-day.
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Yeah.
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And it I think if we're if we're holding on to like a failed relationship for decades, it's gotta be beyond that relationship.
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Like there's gotta be, I think it's it's it's the same in in either extreme, right?
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Where it's if I'm dating someone for a month and then I'm having to heal for five years.
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Or if I was married for a number of years and then divorced for 40, and I'm still like completely activated by that and always talking about it with my children.
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Like those two extremes speak to there's something at within me, like my attachment, like how is this informing about my own identity or worth?
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It's not about the person.
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It can't be at that point.
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No, at that point it's not.
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It's all a deflection, absolutely.
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But this reminds me of that uh social no, it's not social media, um, that news story about that poor woman and her dentist husband uh in Ohio who were murdered by her ex-husband recently.
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What up?
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I did not know that.
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This woman, she was in, I think she and her husband are in their late 30s, and they've only been married less than five years, and they were both shot and killed.
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This is very recently, by the woman's ex-husband.
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And she divorced that man almost eight years ago.
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Maybe even, and like they were only married for like maybe a handful of months, like six, seven months before she called it quit.
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And so the divorce, they had no children, no assets, nothing.
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I mean, it was like you know, on paper, it looked like a clean break.
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But from what I was reading, this poor woman received like harassing messages all throughout the years from the ex-husband.
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And this ex-husband is um very well accomplished in his own right.
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He's a vascular surgeon, but he just couldn't let go.
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Yeah, that was a severe attachment rupture for him.
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Oh my god, and then engaged in, yeah, femicide.
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It's horrible.
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And killed the husband too, the new husband.
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I would be so fucking pissed if like I'm just living my life happy with some some woman, and then I look up and her fucking I just see a gun and it's held by her ex-husband.
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Like that moment right before I die, I would be so pissed.
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I was like, really?
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This is how I die.
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I would be so pissed too.
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Like, I think this but thankfully the the the murderer, you know, did spared her two children, but like by you know, all outward appearances, this woman and her new husband and their two little kids, I mean, they're just a nice little family just living their lives.
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Yeah, and it's it's irreparable damage to those two children.
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And then if they have kids, there's gonna be these gaps in attachment.
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Almost certain, almost certainly, right?
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It'd be really hard to avoid that.
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So there's there's this intergenerational trauma from that event, too, that's gonna happen for at least three cycles.
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I'm glad I'm talking about this with you because this has been kind of plaguing me.
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Yeah.
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So from what I read, the murderer was adopted as a child.
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Oh.
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And had, again, by all outward appearances, very decent upbringing, right?
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Well, I said he had a severe, I said it it sounds like he had a severe attachment rupture.
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There you go.
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There you go, right?
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And then um, yeah, so then he grows up, he becomes a vascular surgeon.
00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:31.400
He don't just become a vascular surgeon overnight, so he clearly dedicated himself to that pursuit.
00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.560
And then I guess her leaving him was another severe attachment rupture.
00:19:36.120 --> 00:19:41.400
But then Well, the pursuit of being a vascular surgeon may have been an echo of that rupture to begin with.
00:19:42.280 --> 00:19:49.640
Like the just being overzealous or trying to achieve something very difficult to oh, to be good enough.
00:19:49.800 --> 00:19:52.519
To speak to some worthiness element, yeah.
00:19:53.080 --> 00:19:56.680
Well, there's also a high correlation of psychopathy with surgeons.
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.759
So what is psychothy?
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:00.200
Psychopathy, yeah.
00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.800
Psycho psychological pathology, psychopathy.
00:20:04.040 --> 00:20:04.360
Oh.
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:06.680
Yeah, with surgeons.
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.360
So um being a psychopath.
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:09.880
Yeah.
00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:14.280
Yeah, don't they listen to like uh metal during brain surgery?
00:20:14.840 --> 00:20:16.600
I'm sure they listen to all kinds of music.
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:18.680
But um, yeah, so that's interesting.
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:25.160
But then I also read that the same murderer had uh he became estranged from his adoptive parents, like by his choice.
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:31.800
And and um I guess one article was just expressing there didn't seem to be a rationale for that.
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.360
Severing relationship.
00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:35.240
Yeah.
00:20:36.120 --> 00:20:37.720
Yeah, very interesting.
00:20:38.360 --> 00:20:47.960
And it's it's unfortunate that we don't have social systems that are able to keep eyes on people like that.
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.240
Well, it goes back to masking, right?
00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:56.920
Because like I mean, you know, he the social system, like doctors are really good at policing their own.
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:13.000
So in his you know, internship, his fellowship, if he had one, um, you would think that he would have been weeded out if he was demonstrating some sort of maladaptive thought processes or in you know, poor interrelational skills.
00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:24.360
Um so you would think it may have not shown too, because his his attachments may have not spiraled unless it was romantic.
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.640
So he may not have been that way with his professors or his colleagues.
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:33.000
Yeah, that's possible too.
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:42.440
I mean, sometimes it's it's like very pointed, where they're like pretty adaptive in most spaces, but then these like one or two, they're fucking crazy.
00:21:43.080 --> 00:21:51.480
Yeah, obviously, yeah, he's using his um I guess perhaps using these relationships to meet his attachment needs, the romantic relationship.
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:52.440
Yeah.
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:53.880
That's so sad.
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:55.640
But he's alive, I guess.
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:57.560
The murderer, yeah.
00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:00.280
Oh yeah, he's fine.
00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:01.240
Going to prison.
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.000
I didn't know if he got shot or something.
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:03.800
Oh no.
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.280
You would think he would yeah, you would think that would be it, but no.
00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:11.960
I think the dipshit thought he was actually gonna get away with it.
00:22:14.120 --> 00:22:17.080
You're the first suspect, so good luck.
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.280
You sent eight years of horrible messages.
00:22:21.080 --> 00:22:21.560
Yeah, right.
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:23.320
I'm gonna kill both of you.
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.240
I didn't do anything.
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:26.600
Exactly.
00:22:27.320 --> 00:22:27.720
Exactly.
00:22:28.040 --> 00:22:30.920
Yeah, that's the other part of when when you watch some kind of murder doc.
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:33.720
It's it's like, oh, why would you do that?
00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:34.600
Why would you do that?
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:35.640
Why would you do that?
00:22:35.800 --> 00:22:40.519
Well, we're missing an important element here, which is they're not in a sound mind.
00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:41.400
Yeah.
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.720
Like if they're doing that, they're not in a sound mind.
00:22:43.800 --> 00:22:47.880
Like as I'm sitting there watching it, I'm in a decently sound mind.
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:53.480
Problem is when you actually go through with stuff like that, you're not thinking straight.
00:22:56.360 --> 00:23:06.200
No, I don't even mean you know what though, if he was kind of psycho like a psychopath, he probably was thinking with a very calculated comp to some degree.
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.759
Yeah, but then that specific yeah.
00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:09.720
Yeah.
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:18.600
But I you know, nowadays, though, with the depth and breadth of forensics, why does anybody think that they can get away with shit?
00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:21.800
That's just yeah.
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.519
Rule number one is you have to rule number one is you have to kill someone you don't know.
00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:30.360
So that completely exempts me from ever wanting to do it.
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:34.360
I I'm just not smart enough.
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.680
I don't have the drive, the follow-through, the interests.
00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:40.200
Not committed enough.
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:42.200
I don't have enough commitment.
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:47.240
We're both too good looking for prison, Evan, so we can't.
00:23:47.640 --> 00:24:05.080
I will say, I can attest, like going from just walking around in the world to being cuffed and put in a space you can't leave unless they let you is um man, that's an experience you cannot have in any other way.
00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:08.200
I guess outside of being kidnapped or something.
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:12.680
Yeah, I don't want to ever have that experience.
00:24:13.080 --> 00:24:34.519
Like it's like you you, you know, maybe you're around a friend or a family member in a courtroom, and then once you pass that barrier, like from the courtroom past the door into the the jail housing or something, it's like a completely different world where no one there gives a shit about you.
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:35.960
You are an animal.
00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:38.280
Period.
00:24:39.080 --> 00:24:45.720
You can ask them for something, no, it could be a toothbrush, yeah.
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.800
But it's it's uh a complete 180.
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:57.160
I think one of the saddest things I saw when I worked at the jail is watching somebody make that mental shift from free person to inmate.
00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:00.759
Yeah, it's how quickly it happens.
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:02.600
Like yeah.
00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:04.920
It is like shocking.
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:12.040
Yeah, the yeah, that the transformation was apparent to me very quickly.
00:25:13.320 --> 00:25:22.600
And it's weird because it like it's not something that can really be experienced unless that happens.
00:25:23.320 --> 00:25:26.280
So there's no way to really know exactly how that feels.
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:38.040
You can think that'd be terrifying, but like if you were actually experiencing it, how intense that would be.
00:25:38.600 --> 00:25:40.040
Yeah, that would be horrific.
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:42.920
Yeah.
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.759
Well, um I don't know where to go.
00:25:54.280 --> 00:25:54.840
Yeah.
00:25:55.320 --> 00:25:58.759
Talking about being murdering and being jailed.
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:05.160
I don't know.
00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:07.320
I just like, what the fuck is the point?
00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:10.120
But you know, that's just kind of my rational brain talking.
00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:13.240
Like, I just Well, they got they have a rage, right?
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:15.320
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:15.560 --> 00:26:17.480
But you know, we've all had rage.
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:19.560
So how does it get to that?
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:20.759
How does it get to that point?
00:26:20.840 --> 00:26:28.040
Because this man, this murderer, I mean, he didn't just like wake up one morning and then drive, you know, 15 minutes.
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:38.360
He had to complete this, like hit the plan was well, not wasn't well executed, obviously, not pun intended, but he um had to drive like 11 hours.
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:44.360
You know, that would be like enough time to like calm down and start thinking rationally, in my mind at least.
00:26:44.840 --> 00:26:46.840
Well, that's like the magic, what's his name?
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:50.920
Mangioni, magioni guy who oh Luigi, yeah.
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:56.200
He like is suspected to have killed the insurance CEO.
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.480
So it's you know, it's United Healthcare.
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:12.280
You and I have talked a lot of shit about them, especially when we were in treatment and just like how criminal they were and how they would not provide care to people that obviously needed it.
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:17.160
They were one of the worst ones, they like wouldn't reimburse for stuff.
00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:31.720
And I probably knew more about that than you did when I was the director, but you know there wasn't ever even a moment where I started to strategize how to murder the CEO of United Healthcare.
00:27:32.120 --> 00:27:32.600
Right.
00:27:33.560 --> 00:27:39.320
Much less like 3D print a gun and then drive there and all that, right?
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:43.400
It's like, man, there is something going on that's different in that brain.
00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:55.000
Yeah, I mean I don't know, I just I think I think this makes me think about addiction.
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:20.040
And I was working with this uh client yesterday, and I think we were talking about her addiction, and I think what was illuminated was that this client didn't have like um a robust life, like there wasn't anything else going on in life, like not well-developed hobbies, not a well-developed sense of self, um, not a good note network of friends.
00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:30.680
And so then that kind of makes me think, well, these people who like conspire and then murder people, they don't have like it makes me wonder like, do they have a well-balanced life?
00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:44.519
Like, is there something so there's not a lot of other exits thinking if if I'm driving to go do this really crazy thing, there's not these other displays of relationship and connection.
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:45.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:52.680
It's like we're in Texas trying to drive all the way to I don't know, what's the state left of Texas, New Mexico?
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:54.120
New Mexico, yeah.
00:28:54.360 --> 00:28:55.560
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:57.400
And that would take 10 or 11 hours.
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.400
And yeah, there's nowhere to stop.
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:00.120
No one's stopping.
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:05.560
But dust and cattle and uh tumbleweeds.
00:29:06.120 --> 00:29:07.400
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.640
You would think that there would be like like you calm down and be like, okay, this was irrational.
00:29:11.800 --> 00:29:13.400
I'm gonna turn around now.
00:29:15.080 --> 00:29:19.000
Yeah, it's zero regulation skills.
00:29:19.320 --> 00:29:19.960
Yeah.
00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:22.759
Yes.
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.840
Yeah, and then yeah, I keep going back to the question, like, to what end?
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:29.160
Like, what what did you prove?
00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:34.600
You murdered your ex-wife, okay, and her husband, and you've left these two little kids without parents.
00:29:35.080 --> 00:29:35.960
What did you prove?
00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:37.080
Like, what are you gonna gain?
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:43.800
I guess it's like he's thinking, I've been able to take away something that you had that you took from me.
00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:44.519
Mm-hmm.
00:29:46.120 --> 00:29:53.480
I mean, but the joke is on I'm what maybe wondering if he's like actually trying to hurt the children.
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:55.160
Because the joke's on him, right?
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:57.160
Because if she's dead, she's dead.
00:29:57.400 --> 00:29:57.880
Yeah.
00:29:58.120 --> 00:29:59.400
She's not suffering.
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:07.320
So I wonder if then if he was actually targeting the children passively, indirectly.
00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:11.720
Or maybe it's it's like I win.
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:18.360
Like a very childish like, oh, we're playing chess, I'm just gonna hit all the chess pieces on the floor and walk away.
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:18.920
I win.
00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:19.720
Yeah.
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:21.320
Yeah.
00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:22.680
That's what it sounds like.
00:30:23.560 --> 00:30:28.040
Yeah, like because that that would make sense if there's an early attachment rupture.
00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:36.040
Like in those moments of complete insanity, he's time traveled in a way back to that mode of thinking.
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:38.759
He took his ball and went home.
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:43.240
Just in a very adult permanent way.
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:49.800
Yeah.
00:30:50.120 --> 00:30:51.400
Oh, that's just sad.
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:56.440
What stories are you following in the news, if any?
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:00.840
Oh man, I'm I'm even more under a rock than I was.
00:31:01.800 --> 00:31:21.240
Like I s I have uh the last week or so, um, not that I was I wasn't like on on reels doom scrolling five hours a day or anything, but you know, there would be moments throughout the day where I would notice that I'd pick up my phone and just like scroll through shit and very mindlessly.
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:30.040
And this last week I've made a an intentional effort and been pretty successful, just completely removing that.
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:40.920
Because I'm like we do we talk about a lot of ways to like improve our functioning and like our level of meaning, purpose, and happiness.
00:31:41.080 --> 00:31:47.800
But I'm like, what is something on a very like granular level that matters really like a lot?
00:31:48.040 --> 00:31:52.759
I'm thinking, it's mood, it's my mood, right?
00:31:52.840 --> 00:32:02.120
Like we can get very like complex with all sorts of stuff, but generally speaking, like our mood in the now is is one of the most important things that we have.
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:12.840
And so I'm like, well, what do I what can I mitigate that's like obviously just taking away from my ability to have like a higher average in my my mood?
00:32:13.320 --> 00:32:19.240
And I think one of them is just like this this draw to being overly sensitized.
00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:28.360
Oh, sensitized to like social media and just stimuli, just like just this consumption of the brain of like all these lights and movements.
00:32:28.600 --> 00:32:50.680
And yeah, like this has gotta, you know, if if I want to operate at like a six out of ten mood, like a little bit above more, like you know, I don't want to be low or really high, but right there, and then I'm like doing all this like stimuli consumption, my brain can't stay at the six, it just kind of swings down, and then I need that to put it back to the six.
00:32:51.640 --> 00:33:02.040
So I'm you I end up having to like use something like that, or else there's this um disparity, almost like a a withdrawal.
00:33:02.840 --> 00:33:04.840
Okay, and so what are you using?
00:33:05.080 --> 00:33:08.280
You're going out of town a lot for rock climbing and stuff.
00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:10.840
Yeah, I went to Chattanooga last weekend.
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:11.720
Yeah, that was fun.
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:17.800
I just I mean, I it's not that I'm not watching stuff, but it's more longer form.
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:21.000
So okay, yeah.
00:33:21.320 --> 00:33:31.960
No, it's not like I'm like, no TV, but it's it is very different because I can tell you what I watched.
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:38.519
Like, like if I if I just like go through a bunch of reels, I couldn't tell you what I fucking watched.
00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:39.960
It could be like 30 minutes.
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:40.680
No idea.
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.200
I couldn't tell you, I might be able to tell you like one that I remember.
00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:47.800
I think you know you just gotta change your algorithm.
00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:49.800
I mean, not that okay, but I I agree with you.
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:53.960
So you know, short form content is not good for the brain, especially if you have ADHD.
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:55.640
Well, here we are.
00:33:56.280 --> 00:33:56.759
Yeah.
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.600
But like I have been finding um a lot of therapists who are very informative.
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:21.960
I've been following a lot a lot of um marriage and family therapists, and uh that's been very helpful in understanding like the work that they do to illuminate people's attachment style and then their expectations of relationships and then their roles and responsibilities and really countering that enmeshment that often happens between couples.
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:23.559
That's been very interesting.
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:26.440
So, like my save folder is huge now.
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.000
Yeah, I think I want to go back to.
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:42.599
I will still um sometimes get into I mean it's only been the last week, but like there's there's some like painters I follow that is like directly inspiring to me.
00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:56.119
Um so yeah, I mean, obviously it depends on what it is and what my level of focus is, but I think probably the ADHD part of me it makes it even harder to retain.
00:34:56.680 --> 00:34:59.639
It's just kind of like feeding this stimulated side of me.
00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:00.360
Yeah.
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:13.160
So yeah, it's like trying to focus on like what are what are very granular things that I have in my control that like I can do to improve my mood on a consistent basis.
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:24.519
Because I I I I have very much like there's a lot of stuff there's I don't have any power over, but I definitely have power over that by and large.
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:25.480
Yeah.
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:34.840
Oh yeah, so I'm I'm trying to do something similar, but just by taking more days off, more breaks.
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.280
Um yeah, you know how I feel about that.
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:44.920
You know, being uh I got so many projects that I really need to attend to.
00:35:45.240 --> 00:35:48.119
I gotta get you to stop working on Fridays.
00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:53.000
You know, I like Fridays, but I don't like working on Mondays typically.
00:35:53.160 --> 00:35:58.280
But my schedule, unfortunately, this year has been dictated by my daughter's dance schedule.
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:04.360
She is in competitive dance and she is practices like 12 hours now a week.
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:05.960
That's fucking crazy.
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:07.880
That's crazy for a 10-year-old.
00:36:09.160 --> 00:36:10.440
That is insane.
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:11.960
Why?
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:13.079
For what?
00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:14.360
I know.
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:17.880
She's really good now.
00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:19.320
I mean, she's really good.
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.440
Yeah, man, 12 hours.
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:23.079
Mm-hmm.
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.480
What is so that's I mean, some if it's it's just during the week?
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.960
Uh, and then some weekends, so then it becomes like 15 to 16 hours a week.
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.760
So it's two two and a half hours a day?
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.320
Uh no, so some nights it's four hours.
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:38.519
Four hours?
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:39.240
Okay, hold on.
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:41.079
What is she doing for four hours?
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:42.599
Oh my god, let me tell you.
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:44.119
Let me stand by.
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:44.760
Stand by.
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:45.960
Oh, there's a schedule.
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:47.559
Oh, yeah, I got a folder.
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:50.760
Okay.
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:55.320
So today is our listeners definitely want to hear this.
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:59.400
Today is the okay, yeah.
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:03.639
So tomorrow will be three and a half hours.
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:08.760
And so she's doing okay, wait, today is three hours.
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.720
So she's on the production team.
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:19.559
So they're doing a dance routine um called I don't know why it's called production, but it's like a mixture of like jazz and tap.
00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:28.200
And then I think that she's doing that for two hours, and then she goes to ballet for an hour.
00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:45.960
And then tomorrow she's on another team called or another like um routine called the junior company line, and she does that for 30 minutes, and then she does production again for like another hour, and then more ballet, and then she finishes tomorrow at 8:30.
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:53.960
So tomorrow is three and a half hours, and then Thursday is two and a half hours, which is, I guess, better.
00:37:54.280 --> 00:38:00.039
Um, she has like a seminar with a choreographer, choreographer.
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.400
Well, this is why you got to get your coaching practice running.
00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:07.000
I don't even know if it's the kids in college.
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:08.920
This is this is probably more than college.
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:25.480
Yeah, she has a seminar with a choreographer, tap, and then she takes a class called leaps and turns, which is really fun because we were at this restaurant with my aunt, and there she is going like up and down the around the tables, just doing her leaps and turns.
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:33.800
And then on Saturday, I think that's like two and a half hours more of like the same sort of like routine.
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:39.880
She's doing different she's got like four routines she's learning, and she has acrobatics.
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:42.760
Yeah.
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:45.960
Lots of driving.
00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:48.280
And then you have to probably sit there, right?
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:52.119
Well, luckily it's near my office, so I just go back to my office.
00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:55.000
And so I'll see clients in the evening times now.
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:56.519
That's yeah, that's very nice.
00:38:56.680 --> 00:39:02.200
And then I also, it's in the same parking lot as my gym, so I'll see clients go to the gym and then pick her up.
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:03.639
Oh, that's great.
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.360
Yeah, she would probably have to just sit there.
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.800
Yeah, there's no way on Goss Green Earth I could do that for three and a half, four hours.
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:11.000
Yeah, that's absurd.
00:39:11.160 --> 00:39:11.800
Yeah.
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:16.760
So I think the long-term goal is uh she wants to join.
00:39:17.160 --> 00:39:32.200
We're trying to think, like maybe she'll start specializing in ballet, so maybe she'll start to move to more of a ballet exclusive company, or um just do more like competition um through this studio.
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:39.800
Yeah, it sounds like she's doing a lot of it's like a collective approach still, but she's probably around the age where she might want to specialize.
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:40.680
Yeah.
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:52.760
Because I yeah, I think that's that's how they do it with the dancing, especially, is they'll give you like four or five different practices initially.
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:59.880
Yeah, she's um not gonna obviously be a professional, it's maybe an obvious, but she's not gonna be a professional dancer.
00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:03.000
We've told her that we're not paying for a dance degree.
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:07.079
So she's all like 10, no idea what we're saying when we say that anyway.
00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:09.160
But um getting it in early.
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.240
Yeah, it's like you've got to have a career, girl.
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.680
You cannot, you're not gonna be a dancer on a cruise ship.
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:16.920
Um correct.
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:22.119
Yeah, that's where that, that's where that leads, usually, the cruise ship.
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:23.639
Yeah.
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:27.240
Yeah.
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:36.360
I mean, it's you know, we always have dreams about going on to Broadway or something like that, but I don't, you know, we gotta we gotta be realistic, we've gotta have real skills.
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:38.440
I kind of want to go on a cruise soon.
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:43.400
Just eat a bunch of soft serve, lay around, be real, be real American.
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.960
Yeah, my girlfriend and I are planning a trip to Europe on a cruise ship for next summer.
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:51.400
Dang, that's cool.
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:52.840
I think that's gonna be a lot of.
00:40:52.920 --> 00:41:00.119
Yeah, my sister, they did they flew into Europe and then did one through some, it was almost like a part of it was like a fucking river.
00:41:00.200 --> 00:41:05.160
I don't it was a legit cruise ship going through canals, I guess, of what they would be.
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:05.960
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:09.240
Viking has cruise ships, cruise lines, Viking.
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:10.840
Yeah, that's one option too.
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.639
They're the Vik the river ones aren't that very expensive, not as expensive.
00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:25.240
Um, but what's nice about Viking, and I promise I don't get any kickbacks from them, is uh they included in the price is all your food and your excursions.
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.320
Yeah, so other cruise lines will kind of nickel and dime you along with it.
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:30.840
So just just you going?
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:33.559
Me and my friend, yeah, from college.
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:34.519
Nice.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:35.720
That's good.
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:42.039
Yeah, Mike is um doesn't like to he travels for work, so he doesn't like to travel for a living.
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:43.559
I mean for fun.
00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:44.360
For fun.
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:45.240
Yeah.
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:45.960
Yeah.
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.400
Plus he hates cruise ships.
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.240
He thinks they're floating petri dishes.
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:52.920
Well, they are, but you know, sometimes you just gotta live in it.
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:55.800
Yeah, he's got all these rules about traveling.
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:56.920
It's kind of funny.
00:41:57.240 --> 00:41:57.880
Really?
00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:01.480
Well, glad you're going instead.
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:03.000
Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
00:42:03.240 --> 00:42:03.880
It'll be fun.
00:00:31.639 --> 00:00:38.519
So I have been working on this training program called the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model through the Polyvagel Institute.
00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:40.519
And it has been very interesting.
00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:41.719
Very, very interesting.
00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:54.519
It's like a somatic-based therapy to understand one's stress responses and to develop like a what they call like a shift, a felt sense, a shift in your stress as you acknowledge what you're experiencing.
00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:56.039
So it's very meditative too.
00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:57.560
I really enjoy it.
00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:01.079
But at the end, um, it's just like another certification.
00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:03.879
So something to put on the resin the website.
00:01:04.039 --> 00:01:06.280
Uh it's like a new service I can offer.
00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:08.519
Oh, did you finish your website?
00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:10.280
No, I'm still working on it.
00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:11.640
Um, I'm not doing it.
00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:13.640
I've decided to hire somebody.
00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:14.280
Yeah.
00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:20.199
The stuff you showed me, was that something you had created, or that was no, uh, that was what my designer had come up with.
00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:21.240
Nice.
00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.319
Yeah, so I'm having she's um helping me.
00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:30.680
Uh she's really very responsive and very um, like she truly wants to understand the business.
00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:31.479
That's good.
00:01:32.199 --> 00:01:34.920
Yeah, this is what she does full-time website design.
00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.080
So yeah, so far so good.
00:01:37.240 --> 00:01:39.719
Um, she's gonna do the actual website come February.
00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:43.159
So that's on my today's list is to do more of the prep work.
00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:44.599
She's really organized.
00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:53.479
Um, she provides like these Google Doc folders, and then each doc, each folder has like one specific document or concept that you have to work on.
00:01:53.639 --> 00:01:55.159
And so I'm just going through it.
00:01:55.240 --> 00:02:04.199
So, like she did my branding, and um, like, you know, one page was like all about like um like how do I want people to feel when they look at my brand?
00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:08.120
How do I want people, you know, what do I want to convey about myself through my brand?
00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:13.639
Then like the third page is, you know, what sort of um colors do I really like?
00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.599
What uh fonts do I really like?
00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:27.639
And then I had to create a Pinterest board of imagery of um like my style, like, you know, in terms of everything, like architecture, landscape, even animals and pets.
00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:36.759
Um you know, if I could, if I could pick my dream bedroom, you know, give her 10 pictures of what my dream bedroom, my dream office, my dream living room would look like.
00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:43.560
And so it's from that that she kind of gets a sense of who I am, and then she created, she works with a graphic designer to come up with the design.
00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:51.960
So we came up with this concept of a passport stamp because I like the like kind of the metaphor of like, you know, psychotherapy as being like traveling through time.
00:02:52.200 --> 00:03:00.680
Um, and so yeah, so this is a passport stamp with my name and it says EMDR therapy works on it, and then it has a B just to represent Melissa.
00:03:01.640 --> 00:03:02.439
That's cool.
00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:03.159
Yeah.
00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:12.920
Yeah, so I'm gonna use her again when I start my second business when I get into the coach, when I develop my coaching program.
00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:18.439
And then Mike started a business, so he's gonna use her for hopefully use her for that too.
00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:21.000
Yeah, which is pretty good.
00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:23.560
When are you starting the coaching?
00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:25.400
Sometime this year.
00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.920
I got two boys going into college, so I gotta do it quickly.
00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:30.120
Yeah.
00:03:30.760 --> 00:03:35.159
Yeah, I did that over the summer, I think.
00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:42.200
And that pulled in like 11k just in six months.
00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:43.800
So that was cool.
00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:45.240
That was really cool.
00:03:45.719 --> 00:04:06.599
Yeah, I just like it's also even if you're not just being a coach, but have like a therapy practice also, it's also it's very helpful when you stumble across someone that truly needs support, or especially like like family reunification and when they're in different states and stuff, where we're so constrained by a licensure.
00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:13.159
If there's no medical necessity, it's it's important that they have someone that's skilled.
00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:25.800
And the risk is if we as therapists don't also have like a coaching uh business too, they're gonna get they're gonna meet with someone that is just a coach that doesn't have uh like true quality training.
00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:32.360
Yeah, so it's like a coach we are immensely overqualified.
00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.639
Um I think it's great.
00:04:35.719 --> 00:04:36.920
I think it's important.
00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:45.879
Um and some people get butthurt because you're like bypassing these like different regulatory bodies and all this, and I'm like all right, well, you know what?
00:04:46.039 --> 00:04:50.359
Keep taking your Aetna and we're seeing 40 people a week, and I'll do my own thing.
00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:51.399
Thank you for sharing.
00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:53.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:57.719
You want to work with the system, like you go for it, bro.
00:04:58.359 --> 00:04:59.799
Yeah, oh my god.
00:05:00.039 --> 00:05:02.120
Let me know how that works out for you.
00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:04.279
It's horrible.
00:05:04.679 --> 00:05:12.919
I've had to like refer people to um like specialists, because I don't specialize, for example, in OCD.
00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:24.279
Like, no, you can use EMDR to treat OCD, but unfortunately, people have this idea that exposure therapy is like the gold standard, which is kind of silly, but okay, whatever.
00:05:24.599 --> 00:05:35.239
And um, so I've reached out to people's insurance companies to try to get them to see specialists, and they're like, no, you know, they can just go to any, just any, you know, therapist, or you can keep seeing them.
00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:42.759
And I'm like, no, I mean, they need someone who's completely who's seen this presentation time and time again and can give them a clear treatment plan.
00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:43.799
Yeah.
00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:46.759
And uh yeah, so it's very frustrating.
00:05:48.599 --> 00:06:05.959
Yeah, I met uh with someone last month, a guest for the podcast, um, that specializes in neurodivergence, which was good for me because it's easy for me to write off all that based on the social media buzzwords.
00:06:06.359 --> 00:06:24.439
But it was interesting to hear um her take and perspective on how you have to adjust the way in which you treat someone who has like legitimate ADHD or like obviously like a autism or or something like that.
00:06:27.719 --> 00:06:31.799
And it just also uh reaffirmed that I have ADHD.
00:06:33.239 --> 00:06:40.279
I was like, so you know, I thought I s I thought I maybe worked through all that, and then I was listening like, no, I've just adapted.
00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:41.879
It's still right there.
00:06:44.599 --> 00:06:55.000
Because she used some some interesting term like um there's three, I can't remember what the third uh is, but it's one is um masking and then one's adapting.
00:06:55.560 --> 00:07:04.199
So it's about the transformation of someone with you know, say ADHD throughout childhood, adolescence, and then into adulthood.
00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:08.919
Like some people can hide it and mask it, some people learn how to make it a superpower.
00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:14.519
And then I guess the other one is like some they're they're debilitated by it, they're not functioning.
00:07:17.479 --> 00:07:19.159
Yeah, I could see that.
00:07:20.679 --> 00:07:31.959
Yeah, I had a client use that phrase masking in session too, and but she was using it more to describe um like hiding her true feelings to present as though she's cheerful.
00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:33.079
Yeah.
00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.120
So I thought that was a that was a good idea.
00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:43.159
She came she like they uh came up with that, or did you reflect that and then they they noticed it?
00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:53.799
Uh it was a process to get her to use that word because um like in session she would present like she's coping really, really well.
00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:59.959
And so, but then she came back the next time we were starting to process a memory and we didn't finish it.
00:08:00.039 --> 00:08:04.120
We were still in the processing phase and it was technically an incomplete session.
00:08:04.279 --> 00:08:12.599
And so she came back the next session and just said how she sat on the couch for a really long period of time in this dorsal vagal shutdown state.
00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:18.839
And so I was a little surprised to her for her to say that because she's never described ever experiencing that.
00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:27.000
And so finally, you know, I pointed that out like the incongruence of um, you know, I've been working with her for a couple of years now, and this is the first time she's ever described that.
00:08:27.159 --> 00:08:31.399
But what she was saying in session sounded like this happens somewhat frequently.
00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:36.120
And so um, yeah, she finally goes, Well, when I come in here, I really mask.
00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.799
And I was like, Well, we need to stop doing that.
00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:48.519
I don't think I said it like that, but I was like, no, I mean, this is the place to describe, you know, what's really going on so that we can get feedback.
00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:53.720
Because like I need to know what's happening in between sessions to inform where we go next with the protocol.
00:08:53.960 --> 00:09:02.039
So that her being transparent about what she'd experienced with that dorsal vagal shutdowns phase really informed me, okay, this memory is too big.
00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:15.959
We need to go deeper in time to maybe a quote unquote smaller memory with a younger self because the memory we've been working on doesn't have the the the ego strength, if you will, creating like a flooding.
00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:26.439
Yeah, I mean, flooding, I mean, no, because she wasn't getting flooded in session because she was really staying within her window of tolerance, but it's when she leaves and then reflects later.
00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:28.679
Um, that's when she's flooding, right?
00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:34.679
I guess I mean I guess maybe she's kind of leaving, she's going into a dorsal vagal shutdown stage.
00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:40.519
So it's kind of like I told her, like, you know, there's no thing as mistakes, it's always just feedback.
00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:45.480
So any feedback you can give me helps me pivot as to what you're experiencing.
00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.360
But you know, there's nothing wrong with a dorsal vagal shutdown stage.
00:09:48.439 --> 00:09:50.360
I mean, it's just feedback, it's information.
00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.679
And so I was like, you can do one of two things.
00:09:52.759 --> 00:10:02.039
You can either let it ride until you naturally come out of it, or you know, you can actively work your way out of it if sitting on the couch for a long period of time is inconvenient.
00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:05.799
You know, clearly we don't, not all of us can afford to do that.
00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:13.639
And there are ways to get out of those, um, you know, to find safety to come back into a ventral vagal state.
00:10:14.199 --> 00:10:18.360
So she has a PR manager present in session.
00:10:20.439 --> 00:10:22.759
You're thinking about masking.
00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:23.879
Yeah.
00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:26.360
Yes.
00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:27.159
Very good.
00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:29.799
So that's that's become adaptive somehow.
00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:30.679
Oh, yeah.
00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:32.759
I mean, as a woman in the world, yeah.
00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.959
I mean, as an American woman, that's expected.
00:10:36.199 --> 00:10:44.039
You can't just walk around without your PR mask on, especially like if you have a mom and you have a child in public school, for example.
00:10:44.199 --> 00:10:47.959
Yeah, you're expected to be, you know, pleasant and socially engaging.
00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.319
And so, yeah, so it's performative.
00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:59.399
But it's very interesting because my practicum supervisor back when I was in graduate school warned me of that.
00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:05.000
She said, Melissa, you have to be very careful because people will present as though because they want you to light them.
00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:08.120
They will present as though Yeah, we actually talked about last time we met.
00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:08.679
Yeah.
00:11:09.079 --> 00:11:09.799
Ironically.
00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:21.639
And so I those words, like, I don't know if this has ever happened to you, but like you'll hear something and there's a part of you that just knows what the person's saying is deeply true, almost prophetic.
00:11:21.959 --> 00:11:24.519
And I've held on to that for 20 years.
00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:27.240
Yeah.
00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:34.360
Yeah, I wonder what that's about.
00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:43.559
Like what do you show or display that invites someone in to perform or to like seek approval?
00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:50.519
Oh, I've told people have told me it's I present as though I'm very calm and I have everything together.
00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.279
Yeah, I probably have a similar display.
00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:54.919
You don't?
00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:55.559
Is that what you said?
00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:57.559
No, I said I probably have a similar display.
00:11:58.199 --> 00:12:03.799
You and I had, but I had to do that though, because my mother was completely dysregulated as a kid.
00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:07.319
And somebody had to be the you know, the adult in the room, you know.
00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:18.279
No, I was in a I was in a meeting last night, and this guy said if I can no no longer resent my mother, then who do I have to blame?
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:19.319
Yeah.
00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:20.840
I was like, ooh.
00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:25.240
Like, damn, alright.
00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:27.319
I was like not really paying attention.
00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:28.120
I just heard that.
00:12:28.199 --> 00:12:29.720
I was like, oh shit.
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:31.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:31.319 --> 00:12:50.039
Because it's so easy for like a like, you know, I I it's a constant thing I work through with resentments of formative figures, but it's so it can so easily be really one of the main point constructs of identity is like a resentment towards someone.
00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:57.480
It is a inform every part of your narrative and like every part, it's it can be like the entire lifespan.
00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:09.000
And it's not it's not for me anymore, but it's still part of it, and it can be, right?
00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.079
It's like that stuff can become activated.
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:12.840
Repeat what he said again.
00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:16.840
If if I can no longer resent my mother, then who do I have to blame?
00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:17.879
Yes.
00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:24.600
And that I think can also point to why sometimes people don't make progress in psychotherapy, right?
00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:41.399
Because if we keep working on one's relationship with whatever parental figure, you know, or person in their life, ex-husband, the yeah, then the there's like a deep well of grief and shame that might come, whether it's rational or not, I don't know.
00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:48.199
But um yeah, that somebody doesn't that they haven't spent the time working on themselves.
00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:57.959
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I work with people of all ages, and um a lot of people are still processing divorces that have happened years ago.
00:13:58.919 --> 00:13:59.559
Right.
00:14:01.079 --> 00:14:12.919
And, you know, if that gets resolved where I don't have my ex-husband to blame anymore, for example, then it's like I have to acknowledge I didn't take responsibility for something, possibly.
00:14:13.319 --> 00:14:21.480
Yeah, like uh responsibility for potentially contributing to the dysfunction or responsibility for the healing.
00:14:21.959 --> 00:14:22.279
Yeah.
00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.639
Yeah, and and moving on with your life in whatever way that looks for you.
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:26.600
Letting go.
00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:27.079
Yeah.
00:14:27.319 --> 00:14:33.480
Because like as Marshall Linehan said, you know, um, we have to we all want to seek a life that's well lived.
00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:34.919
I'm paraphrasing here.
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.879
And, you know, that looks different for everybody.
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:54.840
But if somebody's life well lived is rooted in blaming and blaming and blaming somebody, I would imagine that when that blame is finally put down, there's gonna be grief that they've they maybe misuse their time.
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:56.840
It's terrifying.
00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:07.959
We've all we've all met someone who's older that has lived their entire life that way, where they're just angry and bitter and resentful and and consistently victimize themselves.
00:15:08.199 --> 00:15:15.639
And when they interact with family, it's just utter chaos, and it just creates this spiral within the entire system.
00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:25.000
It's so exhausting and terrifying to envision like an entire life being led that way.
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:31.480
Yeah, I mean, that reminds me of so many people we met when we worked at the substance use treatment center.
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:32.279
Sure.
00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:44.919
Yeah, who like got I mean, you would think that way they were talking that the the divorce or the you know the break in the relationship or whatever it was just happened like three days ago.
00:15:45.079 --> 00:15:51.240
But then you come to find out listening to their story, this is something that really happened 35, 40, 50 years ago.
00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:55.799
And it's still impacting every decision they make in the day-to-day.
00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:57.000
Yeah.
00:15:58.199 --> 00:16:09.879
And it I think if we're if we're holding on to like a failed relationship for decades, it's gotta be beyond that relationship.
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.600
Like there's gotta be, I think it's it's it's the same in in either extreme, right?
00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:21.000
Where it's if I'm dating someone for a month and then I'm having to heal for five years.
00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:32.120
Or if I was married for a number of years and then divorced for 40, and I'm still like completely activated by that and always talking about it with my children.
00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:43.240
Like those two extremes speak to there's something at within me, like my attachment, like how is this informing about my own identity or worth?
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:45.000
It's not about the person.
00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:46.199
It can't be at that point.
00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:47.559
No, at that point it's not.
00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:49.559
It's all a deflection, absolutely.
00:16:49.720 --> 00:17:01.000
But this reminds me of that uh social no, it's not social media, um, that news story about that poor woman and her dentist husband uh in Ohio who were murdered by her ex-husband recently.
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:01.639
What up?
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:03.079
I did not know that.
00:17:04.360 --> 00:17:13.319
This woman, she was in, I think she and her husband are in their late 30s, and they've only been married less than five years, and they were both shot and killed.
00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.160
This is very recently, by the woman's ex-husband.
00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.720
And she divorced that man almost eight years ago.
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:29.160
Maybe even, and like they were only married for like maybe a handful of months, like six, seven months before she called it quit.
00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:32.440
And so the divorce, they had no children, no assets, nothing.
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.120
I mean, it was like you know, on paper, it looked like a clean break.
00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:44.920
But from what I was reading, this poor woman received like harassing messages all throughout the years from the ex-husband.
00:17:45.080 --> 00:17:48.920
And this ex-husband is um very well accomplished in his own right.
00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:53.080
He's a vascular surgeon, but he just couldn't let go.
00:17:54.600 --> 00:17:57.000
Yeah, that was a severe attachment rupture for him.
00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.880
Oh my god, and then engaged in, yeah, femicide.
00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:01.080
It's horrible.
00:18:01.320 --> 00:18:03.640
And killed the husband too, the new husband.
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:14.759
I would be so fucking pissed if like I'm just living my life happy with some some woman, and then I look up and her fucking I just see a gun and it's held by her ex-husband.
00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:18.600
Like that moment right before I die, I would be so pissed.
00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:19.560
I was like, really?
00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:21.080
This is how I die.
00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:22.600
I would be so pissed too.
00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:38.040
Like, I think this but thankfully the the the murderer, you know, did spared her two children, but like by you know, all outward appearances, this woman and her new husband and their two little kids, I mean, they're just a nice little family just living their lives.
00:18:39.080 --> 00:18:42.120
Yeah, and it's it's irreparable damage to those two children.
00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:47.640
And then if they have kids, there's gonna be these gaps in attachment.
00:18:48.280 --> 00:18:49.960
Almost certain, almost certainly, right?
00:18:50.040 --> 00:18:51.400
It'd be really hard to avoid that.
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:57.000
So there's there's this intergenerational trauma from that event, too, that's gonna happen for at least three cycles.
00:18:57.320 --> 00:19:00.600
I'm glad I'm talking about this with you because this has been kind of plaguing me.
00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:01.800
Yeah.
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:06.680
So from what I read, the murderer was adopted as a child.
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:07.160
Oh.
00:19:08.120 --> 00:19:14.519
And had, again, by all outward appearances, very decent upbringing, right?
00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.200
Well, I said he had a severe, I said it it sounds like he had a severe attachment rupture.
00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:19.400
There you go.
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:20.680
There you go, right?
00:19:21.080 --> 00:19:26.120
And then um, yeah, so then he grows up, he becomes a vascular surgeon.
00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:31.400
He don't just become a vascular surgeon overnight, so he clearly dedicated himself to that pursuit.
00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.560
And then I guess her leaving him was another severe attachment rupture.
00:19:36.120 --> 00:19:41.400
But then Well, the pursuit of being a vascular surgeon may have been an echo of that rupture to begin with.
00:19:42.280 --> 00:19:49.640
Like the just being overzealous or trying to achieve something very difficult to oh, to be good enough.
00:19:49.800 --> 00:19:52.519
To speak to some worthiness element, yeah.
00:19:53.080 --> 00:19:56.680
Well, there's also a high correlation of psychopathy with surgeons.
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.759
So what is psychothy?
00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:00.200
Psychopathy, yeah.
00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.800
Psycho psychological pathology, psychopathy.
00:20:04.040 --> 00:20:04.360
Oh.
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:06.680
Yeah, with surgeons.
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.360
So um being a psychopath.
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:09.880
Yeah.
00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:14.280
Yeah, don't they listen to like uh metal during brain surgery?
00:20:14.840 --> 00:20:16.600
I'm sure they listen to all kinds of music.
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:18.680
But um, yeah, so that's interesting.
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:25.160
But then I also read that the same murderer had uh he became estranged from his adoptive parents, like by his choice.
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:31.800
And and um I guess one article was just expressing there didn't seem to be a rationale for that.
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.360
Severing relationship.
00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:35.240
Yeah.
00:20:36.120 --> 00:20:37.720
Yeah, very interesting.
00:20:38.360 --> 00:20:47.960
And it's it's unfortunate that we don't have social systems that are able to keep eyes on people like that.
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.240
Well, it goes back to masking, right?
00:20:51.320 --> 00:20:56.920
Because like I mean, you know, he the social system, like doctors are really good at policing their own.
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:13.000
So in his you know, internship, his fellowship, if he had one, um, you would think that he would have been weeded out if he was demonstrating some sort of maladaptive thought processes or in you know, poor interrelational skills.
00:21:13.320 --> 00:21:24.360
Um so you would think it may have not shown too, because his his attachments may have not spiraled unless it was romantic.
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.640
So he may not have been that way with his professors or his colleagues.
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:33.000
Yeah, that's possible too.
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:42.440
I mean, sometimes it's it's like very pointed, where they're like pretty adaptive in most spaces, but then these like one or two, they're fucking crazy.
00:21:43.080 --> 00:21:51.480
Yeah, obviously, yeah, he's using his um I guess perhaps using these relationships to meet his attachment needs, the romantic relationship.
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:52.440
Yeah.
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:53.880
That's so sad.
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:55.640
But he's alive, I guess.
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:57.560
The murderer, yeah.
00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:00.280
Oh yeah, he's fine.
00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:01.240
Going to prison.
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:03.000
I didn't know if he got shot or something.
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:03.800
Oh no.
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.280
You would think he would yeah, you would think that would be it, but no.
00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:11.960
I think the dipshit thought he was actually gonna get away with it.
00:22:14.120 --> 00:22:17.080
You're the first suspect, so good luck.
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:20.280
You sent eight years of horrible messages.
00:22:21.080 --> 00:22:21.560
Yeah, right.
00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:23.320
I'm gonna kill both of you.
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.240
I didn't do anything.
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:26.600
Exactly.
00:22:27.320 --> 00:22:27.720
Exactly.
00:22:28.040 --> 00:22:30.920
Yeah, that's the other part of when when you watch some kind of murder doc.
00:22:31.720 --> 00:22:33.720
It's it's like, oh, why would you do that?
00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:34.600
Why would you do that?
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:35.640
Why would you do that?
00:22:35.800 --> 00:22:40.519
Well, we're missing an important element here, which is they're not in a sound mind.
00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:41.400
Yeah.
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:43.720
Like if they're doing that, they're not in a sound mind.
00:22:43.800 --> 00:22:47.880
Like as I'm sitting there watching it, I'm in a decently sound mind.
00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:53.480
Problem is when you actually go through with stuff like that, you're not thinking straight.
00:22:56.360 --> 00:23:06.200
No, I don't even mean you know what though, if he was kind of psycho like a psychopath, he probably was thinking with a very calculated comp to some degree.
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.759
Yeah, but then that specific yeah.
00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:09.720
Yeah.
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:18.600
But I you know, nowadays, though, with the depth and breadth of forensics, why does anybody think that they can get away with shit?
00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:21.800
That's just yeah.
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.519
Rule number one is you have to rule number one is you have to kill someone you don't know.
00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:30.360
So that completely exempts me from ever wanting to do it.
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:34.360
I I'm just not smart enough.
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.680
I don't have the drive, the follow-through, the interests.
00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:40.200
Not committed enough.
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:42.200
I don't have enough commitment.
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:47.240
We're both too good looking for prison, Evan, so we can't.
00:23:47.640 --> 00:24:05.080
I will say, I can attest, like going from just walking around in the world to being cuffed and put in a space you can't leave unless they let you is um man, that's an experience you cannot have in any other way.
00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:08.200
I guess outside of being kidnapped or something.
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:12.680
Yeah, I don't want to ever have that experience.
00:24:13.080 --> 00:24:34.519
Like it's like you you, you know, maybe you're around a friend or a family member in a courtroom, and then once you pass that barrier, like from the courtroom past the door into the the jail housing or something, it's like a completely different world where no one there gives a shit about you.
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:35.960
You are an animal.
00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:38.280
Period.
00:24:39.080 --> 00:24:45.720
You can ask them for something, no, it could be a toothbrush, yeah.
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.800
But it's it's uh a complete 180.
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:57.160
I think one of the saddest things I saw when I worked at the jail is watching somebody make that mental shift from free person to inmate.
00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:00.759
Yeah, it's how quickly it happens.
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:02.600
Like yeah.
00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:04.920
It is like shocking.
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:12.040
Yeah, the yeah, that the transformation was apparent to me very quickly.
00:25:13.320 --> 00:25:22.600
And it's weird because it like it's not something that can really be experienced unless that happens.
00:25:23.320 --> 00:25:26.280
So there's no way to really know exactly how that feels.
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:38.040
You can think that'd be terrifying, but like if you were actually experiencing it, how intense that would be.
00:25:38.600 --> 00:25:40.040
Yeah, that would be horrific.
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:42.920
Yeah.
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:52.759
Well, um I don't know where to go.
00:25:54.280 --> 00:25:54.840
Yeah.
00:25:55.320 --> 00:25:58.759
Talking about being murdering and being jailed.
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:05.160
I don't know.
00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:07.320
I just like, what the fuck is the point?
00:26:07.560 --> 00:26:10.120
But you know, that's just kind of my rational brain talking.
00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:13.240
Like, I just Well, they got they have a rage, right?
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:15.320
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:15.560 --> 00:26:17.480
But you know, we've all had rage.
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:19.560
So how does it get to that?
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:20.759
How does it get to that point?
00:26:20.840 --> 00:26:28.040
Because this man, this murderer, I mean, he didn't just like wake up one morning and then drive, you know, 15 minutes.
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:38.360
He had to complete this, like hit the plan was well, not wasn't well executed, obviously, not pun intended, but he um had to drive like 11 hours.
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:44.360
You know, that would be like enough time to like calm down and start thinking rationally, in my mind at least.
00:26:44.840 --> 00:26:46.840
Well, that's like the magic, what's his name?
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:50.920
Mangioni, magioni guy who oh Luigi, yeah.
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:56.200
He like is suspected to have killed the insurance CEO.
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.480
So it's you know, it's United Healthcare.
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:12.280
You and I have talked a lot of shit about them, especially when we were in treatment and just like how criminal they were and how they would not provide care to people that obviously needed it.
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:17.160
They were one of the worst ones, they like wouldn't reimburse for stuff.
00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:31.720
And I probably knew more about that than you did when I was the director, but you know there wasn't ever even a moment where I started to strategize how to murder the CEO of United Healthcare.
00:27:32.120 --> 00:27:32.600
Right.
00:27:33.560 --> 00:27:39.320
Much less like 3D print a gun and then drive there and all that, right?
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:43.400
It's like, man, there is something going on that's different in that brain.
00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:55.000
Yeah, I mean I don't know, I just I think I think this makes me think about addiction.
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:20.040
And I was working with this uh client yesterday, and I think we were talking about her addiction, and I think what was illuminated was that this client didn't have like um a robust life, like there wasn't anything else going on in life, like not well-developed hobbies, not a well-developed sense of self, um, not a good note network of friends.
00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:30.680
And so then that kind of makes me think, well, these people who like conspire and then murder people, they don't have like it makes me wonder like, do they have a well-balanced life?
00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:44.519
Like, is there something so there's not a lot of other exits thinking if if I'm driving to go do this really crazy thing, there's not these other displays of relationship and connection.
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:45.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:52.680
It's like we're in Texas trying to drive all the way to I don't know, what's the state left of Texas, New Mexico?
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:54.120
New Mexico, yeah.
00:28:54.360 --> 00:28:55.560
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:57.400
And that would take 10 or 11 hours.
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.400
And yeah, there's nowhere to stop.
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:00.120
No one's stopping.
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:05.560
But dust and cattle and uh tumbleweeds.
00:29:06.120 --> 00:29:07.400
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.640
You would think that there would be like like you calm down and be like, okay, this was irrational.
00:29:11.800 --> 00:29:13.400
I'm gonna turn around now.
00:29:15.080 --> 00:29:19.000
Yeah, it's zero regulation skills.
00:29:19.320 --> 00:29:19.960
Yeah.
00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:22.759
Yes.
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.840
Yeah, and then yeah, I keep going back to the question, like, to what end?
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:29.160
Like, what what did you prove?
00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:34.600
You murdered your ex-wife, okay, and her husband, and you've left these two little kids without parents.
00:29:35.080 --> 00:29:35.960
What did you prove?
00:29:36.120 --> 00:29:37.080
Like, what are you gonna gain?
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:43.800
I guess it's like he's thinking, I've been able to take away something that you had that you took from me.
00:29:44.040 --> 00:29:44.519
Mm-hmm.
00:29:46.120 --> 00:29:53.480
I mean, but the joke is on I'm what maybe wondering if he's like actually trying to hurt the children.
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:55.160
Because the joke's on him, right?
00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:57.160
Because if she's dead, she's dead.
00:29:57.400 --> 00:29:57.880
Yeah.
00:29:58.120 --> 00:29:59.400
She's not suffering.
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:07.320
So I wonder if then if he was actually targeting the children passively, indirectly.
00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:11.720
Or maybe it's it's like I win.
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:18.360
Like a very childish like, oh, we're playing chess, I'm just gonna hit all the chess pieces on the floor and walk away.
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:18.920
I win.
00:30:19.320 --> 00:30:19.720
Yeah.
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:21.320
Yeah.
00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:22.680
That's what it sounds like.
00:30:23.560 --> 00:30:28.040
Yeah, like because that that would make sense if there's an early attachment rupture.
00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:36.040
Like in those moments of complete insanity, he's time traveled in a way back to that mode of thinking.
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:38.759
He took his ball and went home.
00:30:40.519 --> 00:30:43.240
Just in a very adult permanent way.
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:49.800
Yeah.
00:30:50.120 --> 00:30:51.400
Oh, that's just sad.
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:56.440
What stories are you following in the news, if any?
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:00.840
Oh man, I'm I'm even more under a rock than I was.
00:31:01.800 --> 00:31:21.240
Like I s I have uh the last week or so, um, not that I was I wasn't like on on reels doom scrolling five hours a day or anything, but you know, there would be moments throughout the day where I would notice that I'd pick up my phone and just like scroll through shit and very mindlessly.
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:30.040
And this last week I've made a an intentional effort and been pretty successful, just completely removing that.
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:40.920
Because I'm like we do we talk about a lot of ways to like improve our functioning and like our level of meaning, purpose, and happiness.
00:31:41.080 --> 00:31:47.800
But I'm like, what is something on a very like granular level that matters really like a lot?
00:31:48.040 --> 00:31:52.759
I'm thinking, it's mood, it's my mood, right?
00:31:52.840 --> 00:32:02.120
Like we can get very like complex with all sorts of stuff, but generally speaking, like our mood in the now is is one of the most important things that we have.
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:12.840
And so I'm like, well, what do I what can I mitigate that's like obviously just taking away from my ability to have like a higher average in my my mood?
00:32:13.320 --> 00:32:19.240
And I think one of them is just like this this draw to being overly sensitized.
00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:28.360
Oh, sensitized to like social media and just stimuli, just like just this consumption of the brain of like all these lights and movements.
00:32:28.600 --> 00:32:50.680
And yeah, like this has gotta, you know, if if I want to operate at like a six out of ten mood, like a little bit above more, like you know, I don't want to be low or really high, but right there, and then I'm like doing all this like stimuli consumption, my brain can't stay at the six, it just kind of swings down, and then I need that to put it back to the six.
00:32:51.640 --> 00:33:02.040
So I'm you I end up having to like use something like that, or else there's this um disparity, almost like a a withdrawal.
00:33:02.840 --> 00:33:04.840
Okay, and so what are you using?
00:33:05.080 --> 00:33:08.280
You're going out of town a lot for rock climbing and stuff.
00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:10.840
Yeah, I went to Chattanooga last weekend.
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:11.720
Yeah, that was fun.
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:17.800
I just I mean, I it's not that I'm not watching stuff, but it's more longer form.
00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:21.000
So okay, yeah.
00:33:21.320 --> 00:33:31.960
No, it's not like I'm like, no TV, but it's it is very different because I can tell you what I watched.
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:38.519
Like, like if I if I just like go through a bunch of reels, I couldn't tell you what I fucking watched.
00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:39.960
It could be like 30 minutes.
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:40.680
No idea.
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.200
I couldn't tell you, I might be able to tell you like one that I remember.
00:33:45.080 --> 00:33:47.800
I think you know you just gotta change your algorithm.
00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:49.800
I mean, not that okay, but I I agree with you.
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:53.960
So you know, short form content is not good for the brain, especially if you have ADHD.
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:55.640
Well, here we are.
00:33:56.280 --> 00:33:56.759
Yeah.
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.600
But like I have been finding um a lot of therapists who are very informative.
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:21.960
I've been following a lot a lot of um marriage and family therapists, and uh that's been very helpful in understanding like the work that they do to illuminate people's attachment style and then their expectations of relationships and then their roles and responsibilities and really countering that enmeshment that often happens between couples.
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:23.559
That's been very interesting.
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:26.440
So, like my save folder is huge now.
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.000
Yeah, I think I want to go back to.
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:42.599
I will still um sometimes get into I mean it's only been the last week, but like there's there's some like painters I follow that is like directly inspiring to me.
00:34:44.200 --> 00:34:56.119
Um so yeah, I mean, obviously it depends on what it is and what my level of focus is, but I think probably the ADHD part of me it makes it even harder to retain.
00:34:56.680 --> 00:34:59.639
It's just kind of like feeding this stimulated side of me.
00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:00.360
Yeah.
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:13.160
So yeah, it's like trying to focus on like what are what are very granular things that I have in my control that like I can do to improve my mood on a consistent basis.
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:24.519
Because I I I I have very much like there's a lot of stuff there's I don't have any power over, but I definitely have power over that by and large.
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:25.480
Yeah.
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:34.840
Oh yeah, so I'm I'm trying to do something similar, but just by taking more days off, more breaks.
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.280
Um yeah, you know how I feel about that.
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:44.920
You know, being uh I got so many projects that I really need to attend to.
00:35:45.240 --> 00:35:48.119
I gotta get you to stop working on Fridays.
00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:53.000
You know, I like Fridays, but I don't like working on Mondays typically.
00:35:53.160 --> 00:35:58.280
But my schedule, unfortunately, this year has been dictated by my daughter's dance schedule.
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:04.360
She is in competitive dance and she is practices like 12 hours now a week.
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:05.960
That's fucking crazy.
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:07.880
That's crazy for a 10-year-old.
00:36:09.160 --> 00:36:10.440
That is insane.
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:11.960
Why?
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:13.079
For what?
00:36:13.720 --> 00:36:14.360
I know.
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:17.880
She's really good now.
00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:19.320
I mean, she's really good.
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.440
Yeah, man, 12 hours.
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:23.079
Mm-hmm.
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.480
What is so that's I mean, some if it's it's just during the week?
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.960
Uh, and then some weekends, so then it becomes like 15 to 16 hours a week.
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:34.760
So it's two two and a half hours a day?
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.320
Uh no, so some nights it's four hours.
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:38.519
Four hours?
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:39.240
Okay, hold on.
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:41.079
What is she doing for four hours?
00:36:41.320 --> 00:36:42.599
Oh my god, let me tell you.
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:44.119
Let me stand by.
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:44.760
Stand by.
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:45.960
Oh, there's a schedule.
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:47.559
Oh, yeah, I got a folder.
00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:50.760
Okay.
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:55.320
So today is our listeners definitely want to hear this.
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:59.400
Today is the okay, yeah.
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:03.639
So tomorrow will be three and a half hours.
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:08.760
And so she's doing okay, wait, today is three hours.
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.720
So she's on the production team.
00:37:11.960 --> 00:37:19.559
So they're doing a dance routine um called I don't know why it's called production, but it's like a mixture of like jazz and tap.
00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:28.200
And then I think that she's doing that for two hours, and then she goes to ballet for an hour.
00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:45.960
And then tomorrow she's on another team called or another like um routine called the junior company line, and she does that for 30 minutes, and then she does production again for like another hour, and then more ballet, and then she finishes tomorrow at 8:30.
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:53.960
So tomorrow is three and a half hours, and then Thursday is two and a half hours, which is, I guess, better.
00:37:54.280 --> 00:38:00.039
Um, she has like a seminar with a choreographer, choreographer.
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.400
Well, this is why you got to get your coaching practice running.
00:38:05.160 --> 00:38:07.000
I don't even know if it's the kids in college.
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:08.920
This is this is probably more than college.
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:25.480
Yeah, she has a seminar with a choreographer, tap, and then she takes a class called leaps and turns, which is really fun because we were at this restaurant with my aunt, and there she is going like up and down the around the tables, just doing her leaps and turns.
00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:33.800
And then on Saturday, I think that's like two and a half hours more of like the same sort of like routine.
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:39.880
She's doing different she's got like four routines she's learning, and she has acrobatics.
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:42.760
Yeah.
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:45.960
Lots of driving.
00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:48.280
And then you have to probably sit there, right?
00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:52.119
Well, luckily it's near my office, so I just go back to my office.
00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:55.000
And so I'll see clients in the evening times now.
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:56.519
That's yeah, that's very nice.
00:38:56.680 --> 00:39:02.200
And then I also, it's in the same parking lot as my gym, so I'll see clients go to the gym and then pick her up.
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:03.639
Oh, that's great.
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.360
Yeah, she would probably have to just sit there.
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.800
Yeah, there's no way on Goss Green Earth I could do that for three and a half, four hours.
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:11.000
Yeah, that's absurd.
00:39:11.160 --> 00:39:11.800
Yeah.
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:16.760
So I think the long-term goal is uh she wants to join.
00:39:17.160 --> 00:39:32.200
We're trying to think, like maybe she'll start specializing in ballet, so maybe she'll start to move to more of a ballet exclusive company, or um just do more like competition um through this studio.
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:39.800
Yeah, it sounds like she's doing a lot of it's like a collective approach still, but she's probably around the age where she might want to specialize.
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:40.680
Yeah.
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:52.760
Because I yeah, I think that's that's how they do it with the dancing, especially, is they'll give you like four or five different practices initially.
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:59.880
Yeah, she's um not gonna obviously be a professional, it's maybe an obvious, but she's not gonna be a professional dancer.
00:39:59.960 --> 00:40:03.000
We've told her that we're not paying for a dance degree.
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:07.079
So she's all like 10, no idea what we're saying when we say that anyway.
00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:09.160
But um getting it in early.
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.240
Yeah, it's like you've got to have a career, girl.
00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.680
You cannot, you're not gonna be a dancer on a cruise ship.
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:16.920
Um correct.
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:22.119
Yeah, that's where that, that's where that leads, usually, the cruise ship.
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:23.639
Yeah.
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:27.240
Yeah.
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:36.360
I mean, it's you know, we always have dreams about going on to Broadway or something like that, but I don't, you know, we gotta we gotta be realistic, we've gotta have real skills.
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:38.440
I kind of want to go on a cruise soon.
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:43.400
Just eat a bunch of soft serve, lay around, be real, be real American.
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.960
Yeah, my girlfriend and I are planning a trip to Europe on a cruise ship for next summer.
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:51.400
Dang, that's cool.
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:52.840
I think that's gonna be a lot of.
00:40:52.920 --> 00:41:00.119
Yeah, my sister, they did they flew into Europe and then did one through some, it was almost like a part of it was like a fucking river.
00:41:00.200 --> 00:41:05.160
I don't it was a legit cruise ship going through canals, I guess, of what they would be.
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:05.960
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:09.240
Viking has cruise ships, cruise lines, Viking.
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:10.840
Yeah, that's one option too.
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.639
They're the Vik the river ones aren't that very expensive, not as expensive.
00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:25.240
Um, but what's nice about Viking, and I promise I don't get any kickbacks from them, is uh they included in the price is all your food and your excursions.
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.320
Yeah, so other cruise lines will kind of nickel and dime you along with it.
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:30.840
So just just you going?
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:33.559
Me and my friend, yeah, from college.
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:34.519
Nice.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:35.720
That's good.
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:42.039
Yeah, Mike is um doesn't like to he travels for work, so he doesn't like to travel for a living.
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:43.559
I mean for fun.
00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:44.360
For fun.
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:45.240
Yeah.
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:45.960
Yeah.
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.400
Plus he hates cruise ships.
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.240
He thinks they're floating petri dishes.
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:52.920
Well, they are, but you know, sometimes you just gotta live in it.
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:55.800
Yeah, he's got all these rules about traveling.
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:56.920
It's kind of funny.
00:41:57.240 --> 00:41:57.880
Really?
00:41:59.720 --> 00:42:01.480
Well, glad you're going instead.
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:03.000
Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
00:42:03.240 --> 00:42:03.880
It'll be fun.
