Techgrumps 3.39 - Mythos only for the elite

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Welcome to Tech Grumps 3 .39. Very glad to have
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all of you with us again this week. With us this
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week are Ian. Hello, I'm Ian and I'm in Manchester
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and I go as Cubic Garden everywhere. We have
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David. Hello, I'm David Eastman. I'm Eastman
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everywhere, which is basically just blue sky.
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I talk about AI. Wendy. I'm Wendy Grossman. I'm
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based in London, and you can find me through
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my website at pelicancrossing .net. We have Hannah
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joining us. Hi, I'm Hannah. I'm from Manchester.
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I suppose I'm Miss Kakapo, if you really want
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to find me. And I am Ryan Alexander, who is being
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the host of this, and I am based in London. Engineering
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Manager, you can find me as rnalexander at most
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places, including .co .uk. Okay, first thing
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up on Tech Grumps is our AI Roundtable segment.
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We keep getting so much of it, we're just going
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to lump it all together for you. And starting
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off is going to be Ian with a YouTube video reference
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to OpenClaw. Ian. My point is really simple here.
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There was a point where someone... I'm not going
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to try and explain what OpenClaw was. We've done
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that already. But ultimately, it deleted... um
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someone's most of someone's hard drive and they
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were very upset about it and i just kept on screaming
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to myself what happened to the separation of
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concerns you know i don't understand how we've
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just kind of ignored such a really good idea
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separation concerns is that you separate the
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concerns so you don't let open claw or whatever
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take control of your whole hard drive. You partition
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it off so that you go, okay, you can only access
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this. You can only access that. And if you want
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access to that other thing, you need my permissions
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to be able to do that. And I can then consider
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that. And it just seems that we just ignored
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one of the most simple concepts in programming
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and in just logic. And it really drove me nuts.
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That's it. Reminded me of the 1990s when the
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editor of a Windows magazine upgraded his then
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current version of Windows and wiped out the
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entire forthcoming issue of the magazine. What
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really kills me is that it's always the smartest
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people who don't stop and think or consider.
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Anyway. It's all stochastic. They just don't
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think it's going to be them. Yeah, and it's also
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a misplaced amount of trust in the new technology.
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And for that, you can blame the manufacturers
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a little bit for insisting how great everything
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is, you know? The hype train is out of control
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on this stuff. But it's designed to be. Anthropic
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is going to be doing, apparently, they're starting
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to... There was an article just one thing today
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about they're trying to get... 800 billion valuation
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potentially for their IPO. They're trying to
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IPO. And of course, they need everyone in the
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world to not just be loving AI, but be absolutely
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terrified that they're being left behind by AI.
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And willing to pay for it. Yeah. And that's the
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problem is nobody actually really wants to pay
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for it. Yeah. Well, businesses do. And that's
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kind of what they're shooting at now. That's
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actually Anthropic is changing their model. They're
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going to be looking for business customers. Great.
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Going on with the hype train, should we get to
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the next one? Yes. We also have my, sorry, this
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one's my article. So I found a really interesting
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AR article this week, a little bit of a shift,
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which is for those of you familiar with the wonderful
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world of One Piece. which is an anime very popular
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anime series and netflix has been doing a live
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action of it and one of the actors the actor
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who i think plays the swordsman was uh esquire
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singapore wanted to do an interview with him
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and he was not available so esquire singapore
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just fed all of his previous interviews into
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an ai and trained them and did an a and did an
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interview with an ai generated version of him
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This isn't the first story, remember? Was it
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Michael Schumacher or somebody who was in a coma
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or something and the magazine had an AI generate
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a fake interview? Yes, but like the level of
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excuse, it's more, I mean, it's definitely being
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done. I mean, even before this level of AI hype,
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we had had conversations here on Tech Grumps,
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previously on Tech Grumps, we had had conversations
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about, you know, the the post -death training
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of individuals from their facebook accounts as
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like you know the resurrected digital ghosts
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of people ian you've you've covered this so this
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is i see this all on a scale it's just the idea
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that well now it's just like oh and and part
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of me is like like this idea of like either you
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do the interview or we're just gonna make we're
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just gonna make a homunculus of you and do the
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interview anyway Yeah. The first question is
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really, really ironic. The first question is,
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how important is it for you to draw boundaries
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in your career? Like, they're not allowed to
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draw any boundaries at all. They've crossed a
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boundary immediately. I thought the family of
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Michael Schumacher had sued and I thought they
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won. I'd have to look it up. But I thought it
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went to court in Germany, I think. So the other
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problem is that I see this as a different scenario
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because Michael Schumacher under those standards
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and the family of Michael Schumacher can sue.
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But if putting myself into the shoes of the actor
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who's playing the swordsman Zorro, he's not going
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to sue if he wants to keep working on this show.
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Well, the thing is that the actors are actually
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fighting for the right not to be AI cloned. And
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it's particularly bad for voice actors, you know,
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who are, you know, less famous and tend to have
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less clout. Yeah. And also they're better at
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generating fake voices, you know, so. It's going
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to get worse and worse. So, yeah, that's fun.
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And I think last up. On the AI Roundtable, we've
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got David talking about Mythos, Anthropic Mythos
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only for the elite. David. Well, yeah, and this
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follows on from what Ryan said, that Anthropic
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are chasing business users. So their previous
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model names have been sort of artistic and musical
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releases like Opus or Haiku or Sonnet. So the
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fact they've jumped to Mythos is quite ironic
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because it's kind of like a myth because they
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haven't actually released it. They've just given
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it to certain business concerns and a few elite
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people because I've discovered it's very good
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at spotting bugs and hacks in code, which is
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fine. I think all models can do that. But they've
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been worried that it's so specifically good at
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possibly hacking that the very business companies
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that they want to encourage to use it, they're
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fearing, of course, it might hack them. I mean,
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my understanding of the story is they basically
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went, hi, so this model has proven to be capable
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of finding massive amounts of security holes
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in your software. And so what we thought we would
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do is we would be like, give it to you for a
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while first and let you use it to find those
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holes and patch them before we give it to everyone
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else, which is kind of like, hey, buddy, nice
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infrastructure. It'd be a shame if something
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happened to it with extra steps. Were they asking
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for payment, though? Oh, no. I mean, it's perfectly
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normal to do this. It sounds pretty standard
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stuff to me. Like when a researcher finds a hole,
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they tell the software company. If the software
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company doesn't do anything for a long time,
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then they release the software and then say,
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but we're not really releasing it. It's not the
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last wing that you're referring to. Yeah, I agree
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with Wendy's take on this. I think that it's
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actually a fairly... ethical thing to do for
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some value of ethical in that they went, oh,
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we figured out that this could possibly break
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into all y 'all's software, so we're going to
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give it to you first so you can figure out the
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exploits with it and patch them before we release
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this. But at the same time, it also undeniably
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is another big lump of big lump of fuel in the
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hype fire for this. This model is so powerful,
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we couldn't even release it. It's too dangerous.
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The equivalent, I thought, if you go to a supermarket
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and then you want to buy some bread, but there's
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a space that said, we can't sell you this bread
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because this bread is too good for you. Only
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elite bread eaters can have it. It's like, well,
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why are you telling me? I don't feel like that's
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the message they're sending, but I also don't
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think that... I get to dictate, you know, we
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don't get to dictate the message. I can definitely
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see that being read that way. Yeah. It's far
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too high. This is more to do with actually them
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wanting to align with the business users because
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they are now, again, it's the same thing. They
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have a good alignment with just general users.
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Anthropic's very well trusted. The problem is
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that as resources get harder to get, it's getting,
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It's much, much harder to get space in server
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farms now. It's getting much harder just to get
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the hardware. You've got to get with the big
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companies and government, and that's where they're
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heading, basically. And this is their way of
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saying, hey, we're big, important people. That's
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why we have myths. We don't have a model. We
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have a myth. Can I add one more? Sorry. Can I
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just say, thank goodness that Sora 2 is going
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and gone. I mean, I know it's not going to stem
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the AI slot, but oh my goodness, please. I'm
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just so glad it's gone. Yeah, but again, they
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didn't go because they thought it was a bad idea.
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Same problem. They're running out of space. They
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don't have space for Sora. It's not worth it.
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Absolutely. Yeah, that's good. I mean, it's funny.
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but it wasn't got rid of because they suddenly
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had some taste. That didn't happen. If only this
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had been caused by, this decision had come from
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true sense of moralistic ethos as opposed to
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just straight up chip market forces. Sorry, buddy,
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you're going to have to, as long as we're going
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to stop you from making your AI slop deep fake
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naked videos of horrible things so that we can,
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concentrate on threatening governments with super
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hacking AIs, we might as well say that it's for
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good reasons. And that's your AI roundup. Next
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up on Tech Grumps, Wendy has an article from
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The Guardian about Ofcom reporting that UK social
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media is declining. Wendy. Well, I mean, you've
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pretty much said what the thing says. I mean,
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Ofcom reports periodically on how British Internet
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users use the Internet and various other Internet
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-connected things. And the latest thing shows
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a slight decline not in the use of social media,
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but in participation in social media. So as people
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are watching more videos, they're commenting
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less and engaging less with each other on social
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media platforms. And, you know, Ofcom looks at
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the major platforms, but I noticed when I looked
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it up that it looked like Blue Sky has been shrinking
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a bit, and so has Mastodon usership has been
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sliding too slightly. And, you know, I mean,
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it's hard to know whether it's, you know, it's
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a bad thing in the sense that, you know, I also
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am spending less time on Mastodon and things,
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certainly on Blue Sky, because I find less of
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interest there. But, you know, I mean, if you're
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worried about social media use and you think
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it would be better for people to be out in the
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world seeing people for real, I suppose you might
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see it as a good thing. I'm not sure those are
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happening in exclusion to each other. One of
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the things that occurred to me about this, because
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it's something I've noticed, is that in the last
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year, all of a sudden, WhatsApp has gone from
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being something that I use to message people
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on to like, I've got like five groups on WhatsApp.
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And I'm going for me, I have I have three signal
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groups and the same thing. And the thing about
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that is these these are inherently private, like
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only the people who are in them get to see them.
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And I'm wondering if it's like maybe maybe there
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is a lessening of like public facing usage and
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engagement in these things, but also because
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the public facing stuff is now getting worse
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and worse. So we're seeing more slop and more
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bad actors like everyone's everyone's left Twitter
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because Twitter is just a trash fire now. And
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people are more conscious of privacy and conscious
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of posting things in public, particularly people
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who do not have U .S. passports and are planning
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to travel to the U .S. Yeah. I think some of
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it's political, but I think some of it's also
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just wanting to feel like they actually are interacting
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with people and getting the social media is supposed
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to have interaction. And if you're shouting into
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a crowded room full of yelling bots. Right. And
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this is this is actually a pendulum we've seen
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swing before. You know, Usenet was a public social
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media was was a social media platform. And then
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it was, you know, a lot of people used sort of
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retreated into mailing lists when you use Usenet
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got crowded with too much slop. And then along
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came some of the first social media platforms
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and blogs and they went out there. And, you know,
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I mean, people people people go where their friends
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are, basically. Yeah, there's like a digital
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migration that happens from space to space. Yes,
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.419
which is why the wonderful line, on the internet,
00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:07.019
your home always leaves you. Ian, you have an
00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:09.259
article that you listed as well. Yeah, I mean,
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.960
it's pretty much something that's from the BBC,
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:15.960
but I also wanted to mention a little bit of
00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:21.379
a plug here. Before I left the BBC, we did a
00:15:21.379 --> 00:15:25.100
future of social report. And I've actually got
00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:29.840
it up. In there, we forecast that the decline
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.899
is coming because people are retreating, as you've
00:15:32.899 --> 00:15:36.440
already talked about, retreating into private
00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:39.120
messages. They're just moving away from these
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.799
global timelines. And it was already clear to
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:47.179
see, and this was written in 2023 and published.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:51.500
2024, but it was clear to see already that this
00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:55.740
was happening. I do find it interesting that
00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:59.379
the behaviour has changed, because even within
00:15:59.379 --> 00:16:03.019
the private messages, people are starting to
00:16:03.019 --> 00:16:07.740
feel the fatigue of lots of groups, and they're
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:10.740
trying to move away from them, as we just talked
00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:14.720
about. Yeah, I'm wondering what's kind of where
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:16.799
things are going to go from there. Because, I
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.820
mean, there's one extreme where people are just
00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:22.320
like, I'm going to literally ditch my phone.
00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:24.899
And it always seems to be around phones, you
00:16:24.899 --> 00:16:29.259
know, which I understand why. But ditch my phone
00:16:29.259 --> 00:16:33.480
for this completely non -internet connected or
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.179
non -smartphone to something very much more basic.
00:16:38.259 --> 00:16:40.440
Or... Or like some people are obviously just
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.519
removing themselves completely, removing the
00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.360
notion of having a phone and are switching to
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:50.059
just like, you know, literally using computers
00:16:50.059 --> 00:16:53.399
only. And it's very, that's less people are doing
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.519
that, but I'm starting to see a bit of a trend
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.360
of like, I don't want to be, I don't want to
00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.240
be contacted. I don't want to contact people
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.620
when I'm not, I'm choosing to be on the internet
00:17:03.620 --> 00:17:06.240
now, which is obviously a lot of us all kind
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.980
of are aware of. I'm looking at Hannah, probably
00:17:09.980 --> 00:17:15.759
not. Sorry, Hannah. Not on the internet. I think
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:17.640
there is an element of curation to it. And I
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.319
think we're all just better at curating what
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.519
we want to be online, who we are online and who
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.680
we talk to. And when Facebook came out, I was
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.539
a young teenager. I think I had a Facebook account
00:17:31.539 --> 00:17:35.079
before I was supposed to. But then everyone got
00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.210
Facebook and that was just kind of... how it
00:17:37.210 --> 00:17:41.109
is and no one knew what it was so we all just
00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:44.269
piled stuff onto it because it was a new shiny
00:17:44.269 --> 00:17:47.809
thing and it connected us all and that was how
00:17:47.809 --> 00:17:52.089
it was i think now like 20 years like 20 oh my
00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:56.710
god 20 years later then we have a much better
00:17:56.710 --> 00:18:02.480
idea of how social media can be curated by us.
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:06.599
So I don't feel like I am as enthralled by it
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.859
now as I used to be. I am chronically online.
00:18:10.019 --> 00:18:12.779
I am constantly online. But I have particular
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:15.940
people that I talk to and I have particular groups.
00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:18.619
I use Discord every day. I have a group on Discord
00:18:18.619 --> 00:18:22.619
that I love. I have a group of girls and we swap
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:26.640
various book memes together on Instagram. And
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.299
that's a daily thing that makes me happy. But
00:18:29.299 --> 00:18:31.950
I don't feel like I need to be. shouting about
00:18:31.950 --> 00:18:34.789
what's going on in my life as much as I did as
00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:37.769
a teenager but then I also think that's just
00:18:37.769 --> 00:18:44.890
being in your 30s isn't it I like to think of
00:18:44.890 --> 00:18:50.130
it as the internet using body public forming
00:18:50.130 --> 00:18:54.920
new antibodies to There's only so many times
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.059
you can be on an open forum and Wendy's tries
00:18:57.059 --> 00:18:59.319
to slide into your DMs like they're someone else
00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:00.880
in the conversation, a normal person. You're
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:02.859
like, no, fuck off. You're a company. Stop it.
00:19:03.579 --> 00:19:06.299
Like, stop trying to act like you were supposed
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:08.380
to be in this conversation. It's a natural thing.
00:19:08.500 --> 00:19:11.079
It's not, and not even your most clever social
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:14.000
media people can persuade me that this person,
00:19:14.140 --> 00:19:16.920
this entity coming in with 5 million followers
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:18.859
trying to drop a cute little comment to my thing
00:19:18.859 --> 00:19:21.819
is doing anything but being incredibly disruptive.
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:24.960
And I think that there's a significant shift
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.200
of people moving to more private things for that.
00:19:28.870 --> 00:19:33.630
And just more closed ecosystems because, and
00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:35.750
I think that AI is going to make this worse because
00:19:35.750 --> 00:19:38.910
AI is making it so much easier for people to
00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:41.410
just slop onto everything as long as it's open.
00:19:42.069 --> 00:19:45.769
They can just go, hey, write me an automation
00:19:45.769 --> 00:19:48.130
that looks for people talking about cinnamon
00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:53.470
rolls who are from the UK area or in London so
00:19:53.470 --> 00:19:56.380
that I can. Try to pretend like I'm just this
00:19:56.380 --> 00:19:58.000
person and tell them, hey, have you tried going
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:01.059
to new roles in Covent Garden? They're the fucking
00:20:01.059 --> 00:20:04.799
best, dude. Like, you know, it's so it's so easy
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.160
for that. And people just go like, you know what?
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:08.619
It's not even it's not even worth my time. I
00:20:08.619 --> 00:20:11.019
think there are different like spheres as well.
00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:14.259
So there's the small spheres, which is like the
00:20:14.259 --> 00:20:16.900
instant messages between a couple of friends.
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.859
So like the girls that I swap book memes with.
00:20:20.180 --> 00:20:22.700
And then there's like the medium groups, which
00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:26.269
are. curated to the extent that you're all interested
00:20:26.269 --> 00:20:28.549
in a particular things like the discord group
00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:30.630
that i'm on for a minecraft server that i joined
00:20:30.630 --> 00:20:33.269
that would be like a medium group i certainly
00:20:33.269 --> 00:20:35.230
don't know everyone on that group but everyone
00:20:35.230 --> 00:20:38.869
has a kind of we're all paying to be there which
00:20:38.869 --> 00:20:40.970
is part of it so it's kind of closed but it's
00:20:40.970 --> 00:20:43.150
a medium size in that i don't know everyone but
00:20:43.150 --> 00:20:45.890
lots of things happen and then i think there
00:20:45.890 --> 00:20:48.849
are the broader groups that you find yourself
00:20:48.849 --> 00:20:53.180
in so like um minecraft obsessed i like hermitcraft
00:20:53.180 --> 00:20:55.980
there's a hermitcraft fan page i like following
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:58.019
that and i comment and interact with people because
00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:00.980
it's fun but i don't expect to have anything
00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:04.519
um craft is og it's one of the original large
00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:08.839
group let's like let's play The thing is, they
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:11.619
make content on Minecraft and they hang out and
00:21:11.619 --> 00:21:14.559
they're adorable. And they've actually just raised
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:18.460
$1 .8 million for Gamers Outreach, which is a
00:21:18.460 --> 00:21:22.640
charity that provides gaming consoles to children
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.519
in hospital because it has to be really specific
00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:27.039
so that it's hygienic. So they're a proper force
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.539
for good. They're really lovely. The thing is,
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.059
there are two things, though. One, I note that
00:21:32.059 --> 00:21:35.140
the people I know online. have tended to be the
00:21:35.140 --> 00:21:38.119
same people from the beginning. You know, like
00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.619
I was on Kix and CompuServe and I knew certain
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:44.440
people and they're in my Facebook group. They're
00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:47.480
in, you know, my Facebook feed and, you know,
00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:51.559
or they're in my Twitter group or whatever. You
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:54.660
know, you tend to see the same people. You tend
00:21:54.660 --> 00:21:56.700
to communicate with the same people. You just
00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.259
keep moving around and refinding each other.
00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:02.299
So that's one aspect of it. But the other thing
00:22:02.299 --> 00:22:05.220
is I really miss Twitter. I mean, I was on Twitter
00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:10.839
for 15 years almost every day. And I really miss
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:15.059
what it had when it was really good at bringing
00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:21.140
in news and so on. And nothing that's out there
00:22:21.140 --> 00:22:23.839
really substitutes for that. I think that was
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:30.150
really both useful and entertaining for me. I
00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:31.869
think a lot of that was the magic of the forced
00:22:31.869 --> 00:22:33.910
constraint of Twitter length. One of the reasons
00:22:33.910 --> 00:22:37.349
why I think Mastodon is not... If you look at
00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:41.069
Twitter to Blue Sky to Mastodon, and everyone
00:22:41.069 --> 00:22:45.069
loves Mastodon... Ian, our resident permanent
00:22:45.069 --> 00:22:47.089
advocate for the Fediverse, will tell you that
00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:49.289
Mastodon is the future, except that Mastodon
00:22:49.289 --> 00:22:50.430
is never going to be the future until people
00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:52.509
stop writing their goddamn theses in every post.
00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:56.369
Well, I don't know about that, but I think it's
00:22:56.369 --> 00:22:57.950
not going to be the future as long as everybody
00:22:57.950 --> 00:23:00.190
panics every time they're asked to choose a server.
00:23:00.710 --> 00:23:06.690
Well, yeah. Well, this is about... Hold on. Welcome
00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:10.009
to the bait Ian show. Ian, please. This is about
00:23:10.009 --> 00:23:15.690
the decline, right? I'm just going to leave it
00:23:15.690 --> 00:23:18.579
there. I think there's more important things
00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:21.319
to talk about. I think there is, but I want to
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:23.160
do a little bit more dwelling on the constraint
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.779
factor of this because I think there's been a
00:23:25.779 --> 00:23:27.980
thread to this that I want to kind of pull out,
00:23:28.059 --> 00:23:37.220
which is this sense of long -term internet people,
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.480
which I think is everyone here. We've all kind
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.460
of found our ways to the... smaller community
00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:48.779
is a factor which has a limiting factor on it
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:51.660
that is a little bit out of our control. So like,
00:23:51.700 --> 00:23:53.619
you know, Hana, you talked about going to the
00:23:53.619 --> 00:23:55.180
Hermitcraft store, but I love Hermitcraft. I've
00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:59.319
been following Mumbo for ages. And that has this
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:00.740
interesting limiting factor. It's like, it's
00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:02.740
just going to be the Minecraft people. It's just
00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:04.680
going to be the Hermitcraft people. And like
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.119
when you go on to something like Mastodon, it's
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:09.539
now actually just going to be the people who
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:11.839
can put up with the server panic stuff and the
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:16.230
thesis proposed stuff. And, like, there's these
00:24:16.230 --> 00:24:18.970
constraints that will bring it in. One of the
00:24:18.970 --> 00:24:20.410
things that I've seen going past that I'm wondering
00:24:20.410 --> 00:24:22.630
about is, like, and this just, the reason why
00:24:22.630 --> 00:24:24.650
this hit me was that I thought about this this
00:24:24.650 --> 00:24:27.170
week as I saw a TikTok go past about this, is
00:24:27.170 --> 00:24:30.789
I'm seeing more TikToks about meshtastic, this
00:24:30.789 --> 00:24:33.910
mesh, this mesh networking. And the thing that
00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:36.630
hit me, like, I was just like, why would I want
00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:38.930
that? I went, wait a second. Explain, please,
00:24:38.990 --> 00:24:42.400
what's meshtastic? Meshtastic is an alternative
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.119
way of providing internet and data routing that
00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:51.900
is decentralized. It's kind of like, what if
00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:53.759
we could provide internet but not have to rely
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:58.490
on... So the idea of a mesh network is, you know,
00:24:58.490 --> 00:25:01.650
like if you and all your friends are close enough
00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:03.369
together and you take all your phones and you
00:25:03.369 --> 00:25:05.250
connect your phones together and you have a network
00:25:05.250 --> 00:25:07.769
and you don't need the Internet because you have
00:25:07.769 --> 00:25:09.849
this mesh network and you can carry things and
00:25:09.849 --> 00:25:11.769
you can connect to another mesh network. And
00:25:11.769 --> 00:25:14.509
I mean, it's basically how Usenet was done way
00:25:14.509 --> 00:25:18.289
back in 1979, was that servers would collect
00:25:18.289 --> 00:25:20.089
news and they would call each other and exchange
00:25:20.089 --> 00:25:24.509
news. And the thing about that, absolutely correct,
00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:28.210
thank you, is that my brain suddenly went, I
00:25:28.210 --> 00:25:30.130
don't really necessarily want to have a new network,
00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:32.829
but I'd love to see who's on that network because
00:25:32.829 --> 00:25:34.589
I bet it's a small collection of people who are
00:25:34.589 --> 00:25:36.109
passionate and it might be interesting to interact
00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:40.329
with them. It's a limiting thing that drives
00:25:40.329 --> 00:25:42.869
this community and there's lots of stuff about
00:25:42.869 --> 00:25:46.089
that. I think one of the things about social
00:25:46.089 --> 00:25:50.839
media that... I visualise it as going into a
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:54.680
room so if I walk into a room and I stand on
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.480
the stage and I make an announcement and then
00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.519
everyone looks at the announcement then I kind
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:02.220
of want that announcement to be good enough to
00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:06.039
warrant their attention so if I'm in a Facebook
00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:09.220
group for example for my building then I'm quite
00:26:09.220 --> 00:26:12.549
careful about what I put because That's how it
00:26:12.549 --> 00:26:15.190
feels to me is standing on a stage and then making
00:26:15.190 --> 00:26:17.970
that announcement. So I guess when I talk about
00:26:17.970 --> 00:26:20.349
curation, I'm also thinking about, well, which
00:26:20.349 --> 00:26:22.930
rooms do I want to go in and stand on the stage?
00:26:23.750 --> 00:26:26.349
Who am I willing to heckle is the other question.
00:26:27.130 --> 00:26:29.809
Where are you willing to contribute? I would
00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:32.269
give you a nicer version of that, which is that
00:26:32.269 --> 00:26:34.230
is this community that I feel that I would feel
00:26:34.230 --> 00:26:37.769
like I am capable of contributing to and that
00:26:37.769 --> 00:26:45.759
I wish to contribute to? Yeah. OK, and next up
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:49.039
on Tech Grumps, we have Return of the Glasshole
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.359
Part Two with Wendy with another link on the
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.839
continuing saga. Wendy, take it away. Well, this
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:57.359
was a Guardian article that I read in which the
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.640
journalist did a journalist thing, which is that
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.839
she wore a Facebook smart Ray -Ban smart glasses
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:09.000
for a month. And she said that basically it made
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.920
her feel like a creep. Because, you know, she
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:13.859
would go places and, you know, friends would
00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:17.680
ask, are you recording me? And just of her own,
00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:19.839
she would sort of worry, were the glasses recording
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.119
and she didn't realize it? Or, you know, what
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:24.859
were they capturing? You know, and so forth.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:28.559
And so basically, basically, she became very,
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:30.599
very conscious of the way that it could invade
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:32.940
other people's privacy. And she became increasingly
00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:35.500
uncomfortable about it. And while she missed,
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.000
I think, some of the information that they gave
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.789
her, you know. When she took them off at the
00:27:40.789 --> 00:27:43.329
end of the month, she didn't really miss the
00:27:43.329 --> 00:27:48.509
feeling of invading people's privacy. So, you
00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:53.930
know, it will be interesting to see if the concept
00:27:53.930 --> 00:27:56.630
of smart glasses can work a second time. You
00:27:56.630 --> 00:27:59.269
know, are we ready for it? I'd like to think
00:27:59.269 --> 00:28:07.589
we're not. No, definitely not. I still remember
00:28:07.589 --> 00:28:10.690
the first. The first time I saw Google Glass,
00:28:10.750 --> 00:28:13.869
and it was at the Quantified Self conference,
00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:17.170
which are people that are very much into this
00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:21.750
thing. And even then, there was so much discussion
00:28:21.750 --> 00:28:26.109
about someone walking around with these smart
00:28:26.109 --> 00:28:30.329
glasses. And Google Glass doesn't do anywhere
00:28:30.329 --> 00:28:35.769
near what we could currently do now. But I just...
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.099
Every time I look at someone's glasses now, even
00:28:40.099 --> 00:28:44.700
people that I know, I start to wonder, have they
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:47.720
replaced their glasses with a smart glass? How
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:50.680
do I identify it? Those kind of things. And we
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:53.299
already know that there's stories, not stories,
00:28:53.380 --> 00:28:57.740
there is some proof of people removing the LED
00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:01.460
or stopping the LED from lighting up. We know
00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:04.779
this stuff. We know this is how... all this stuff
00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:06.980
happens, you know, people just kind of go, oh,
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:08.799
I'll just override that or I'll put this other
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:10.539
firmware on there. And then also there's those
00:29:10.539 --> 00:29:14.700
people who, yeah, was it a bunch of students
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:18.839
who were using it to identify people? And then
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.680
later on, Meta was like, oh, actually, we might
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:26.160
actually implement that. And I'm not sure they
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.319
have done that yet. I remember reading the story
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:30.539
and thinking they haven't done it yet, but they
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:33.539
are talking about doing that. It's just going
00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:37.420
in the wrong direction, and I don't think society's
00:29:37.420 --> 00:29:39.819
ready, and I don't think the society should be
00:29:39.819 --> 00:29:44.039
ready for it. I think they, Meta, and the others
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:47.220
need to stop what they're doing, because this
00:29:47.220 --> 00:29:51.299
is out of control, and I don't want it to be.
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.000
We're going to see loads of stories soon of people
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.359
going into... All types of places. Filming. And
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:02.420
then it appears live. Streamed elsewhere. On
00:30:02.420 --> 00:30:06.180
their Discord channel. Or on their OnlyFans.
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:10.599
Or whatever. I just see it all coming. I just
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:13.019
think that we need to. This is a case where.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:18.680
The laws need to. Take control of what's. About
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:23.349
to happen. I just don't want to wait for. Meta
00:30:23.349 --> 00:30:27.089
to kind of go, oh, well, you know, we told everyone
00:30:27.089 --> 00:30:31.250
not to do this and they did it anyway. Meta did
00:30:31.250 --> 00:30:36.789
just lose a major court case that was at a topper
00:30:36.789 --> 00:30:40.329
level basically going, you bloody well knew that
00:30:40.329 --> 00:30:43.470
you were being addictive. You were putting people
00:30:43.470 --> 00:30:45.150
into addictive things and you were using these
00:30:45.150 --> 00:30:46.769
techniques. You knew that this was harmful to
00:30:46.769 --> 00:30:48.569
people and you didn't do it. And you are, in
00:30:48.569 --> 00:30:51.009
fact, responsible for the harm that you have
00:30:51.009 --> 00:30:57.289
done with this. And we are the grumps, so I think
00:30:57.289 --> 00:31:00.549
that as much as we would love it for once in
00:31:00.549 --> 00:31:03.089
our lives to watch somebody in tech make the
00:31:03.089 --> 00:31:04.890
decision from the proper moralistic standpoint,
00:31:05.109 --> 00:31:07.470
we know that what's going to happen is it's going
00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:09.309
to come on the back of someone getting the ever
00:31:09.309 --> 00:31:13.089
-loving daylight suit out of them. And then other
00:31:13.089 --> 00:31:15.029
companies go, oh, this might actually have a
00:31:15.029 --> 00:31:20.230
monetary impact. It depends how much money, though.
00:31:20.269 --> 00:31:23.410
The problem is it's very hard to find an amount
00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:25.630
of money you can find Facebook that is going
00:31:25.630 --> 00:31:32.430
to be meaningful to them. Yeah. I did, so saying
00:31:32.430 --> 00:31:38.170
all what I just said, I did find there's a Gizmodo
00:31:38.170 --> 00:31:42.990
piece, which is actually, I thought it was quite
00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:46.309
clever. But it's very limited what it does. So
00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:50.630
ultimately, the story talks about how in, I think
00:31:50.630 --> 00:31:57.690
it's in Korean film theatres, they are using
00:31:57.690 --> 00:32:01.769
smart glasses so people who don't speak Korean
00:32:01.769 --> 00:32:06.250
could watch the movie or the theatre piece and
00:32:06.250 --> 00:32:09.829
they can get a real -time translation in their
00:32:09.829 --> 00:32:12.349
glasses. And they were saying that it's better
00:32:12.349 --> 00:32:15.240
than... the other solutions that currently are
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:18.940
out there um they also made the point that you
00:32:18.940 --> 00:32:20.819
know if they have like especially with headphones
00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:23.500
you just get the kind of in the ear headphones
00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:26.059
and then they have to clean it and disinfect
00:32:26.059 --> 00:32:29.000
it afterwards and no one wants to wear you know
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.180
kind of um someone else's or previously used
00:32:33.180 --> 00:32:36.619
earphones and stuff like that um and so they
00:32:36.619 --> 00:32:38.900
found the smart glasses actually quite useful
00:32:38.900 --> 00:32:41.980
to be able to to do the real -time translation
00:32:41.980 --> 00:32:45.480
you know what the actual there there is and has
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.819
been for a long time in theaters i know this
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:49.599
i don't know why i know this i saw i think one
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:54.400
no oh it is it is much more low -tech than that
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:58.390
it is a very simple solution And what it is,
00:32:58.390 --> 00:33:00.529
is that they can offer subtitles in another language.
00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:03.369
And what they do is they put a big LED bar at
00:33:03.369 --> 00:33:07.289
the back of the cinema. Right underneath where
00:33:07.289 --> 00:33:10.710
the movie projector comes out a little bit enough
00:33:10.710 --> 00:33:13.609
below. And then they give people these devices,
00:33:13.609 --> 00:33:15.970
which are basically little mirrors. I'm holding
00:33:15.970 --> 00:33:18.900
up my hands like. This is TV, which it's not,
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:21.079
so I'll stop that. But they give them this long
00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:24.680
mirrored device with a base that is the size
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:27.220
of the cup holder in their seats. So they can
00:33:27.220 --> 00:33:28.920
put it into the cup holder and it'll stay there.
00:33:29.019 --> 00:33:31.400
And they just have to tilt the little reflector
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:34.000
so that it's sitting in their line of sight underneath
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:35.900
where they can see that. And then they can see
00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:39.819
the bar. And then they'll just, as they're watching
00:33:39.819 --> 00:33:42.980
the movie, they can also see the subtitles go
00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:45.660
across. And the thing that makes me think about
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.619
that is like, That has to be less expensive than
00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:51.660
giving everyone smart glasses, some of whom are
00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:53.339
going to absolutely walk out of the theater with
00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:55.319
those frigging smart glasses. Why wouldn't they
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:57.579
just put the subtitles on the movie like they've
00:33:57.579 --> 00:34:00.519
always done? I hate having subtitles on their
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:03.039
movies if they don't want them. Yeah, I think
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:04.759
they also wanted to be able to, and I think maybe
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:06.619
this answers a bit of what Ryan's talking about.
00:34:07.470 --> 00:34:09.949
you want different languages. So if you're English
00:34:09.949 --> 00:34:12.969
or you are Japanese or you're watching a Korean
00:34:12.969 --> 00:34:17.289
movie, then you may want these differences. But
00:34:17.289 --> 00:34:21.670
they've been doing that for decades. Hey, I'm
00:34:21.670 --> 00:34:25.889
just playing what the Gizmodo people... One film
00:34:25.889 --> 00:34:29.710
can only have one translation. I mean, the glasses
00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:34.469
do solve that. That's not even true. I mean,
00:34:34.469 --> 00:34:37.909
an American movie in France has French subtitles
00:34:37.909 --> 00:34:41.150
and in Germany it has German subtitles. I mean,
00:34:41.170 --> 00:34:43.230
they do that. They've been doing that for decades.
00:34:43.730 --> 00:34:46.210
Yeah, but if you're not French and you're in
00:34:46.210 --> 00:34:48.130
a French cinema watching an English film, but
00:34:48.130 --> 00:34:50.409
you want, I don't know, Korean. What are you
00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:53.710
doing in France if you can't speak French? Apologize.
00:34:56.300 --> 00:34:58.380
If you don't speak the right language, go home.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:02.159
So what you're assuming... The answer is being
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:05.000
very British, Wendy. That is the answer. No,
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.519
what you're assuming is that if you're watching
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.099
an English language movie and it has French subtitles,
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:11.880
you're assuming you can't speak either English
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:14.559
or French because you would be able to hear the
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:18.460
English dialogue. But of course, movies do come
00:35:18.460 --> 00:35:21.159
from more than one place. I understand. I want
00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:23.059
to lift this up into a more generic thing because,
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:25.000
Ian, what you just did is something that I've
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.500
noticed and I was going to raise as a point.
00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:30.179
So thank you. And don't take personally what
00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:34.239
I'm about to say. Uh -oh. Uh -oh. I'll go get
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.559
some yeast. One of the standard methodologies
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:40.320
for trying to excuse some of this invasive technology
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.719
is the people who are making the idea of going,
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:46.760
oh, but it's really useful for certain accessibility
00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:51.300
standards. And I know people. I have one very
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:55.460
dear friend who is basically legally blind, and
00:35:55.460 --> 00:35:57.780
he does advocacy for transport and stuff. And
00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:01.219
a lot of other folks who are advocates for disability
00:36:01.219 --> 00:36:04.530
will tell you. they are so sick of being used
00:36:04.530 --> 00:36:06.550
as the excuse for pervs to wear their glasses,
00:36:06.789 --> 00:36:08.710
their little camera glasses and other stuff like
00:36:08.710 --> 00:36:12.389
that. So while it is well -intentioned, I would
00:36:12.389 --> 00:36:14.909
always, under those circumstances, I've now got
00:36:14.909 --> 00:36:19.269
the built -in thing where it's like, is the accessibility
00:36:19.269 --> 00:36:24.079
point... for this technology coming from an individual
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:26.659
who has need of that accessibility at which point
00:36:26.659 --> 00:36:28.739
i'm willing to listen but if it's just somebody
00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:30.679
and i'm sorry ian you did walk into this but
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:31.880
it's not your fault i know this isn't the way
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.980
you are but i'm always like do you need subtitles
00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:37.519
then i'm going to wait till someone who actually
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.639
needs the subtitles for a legitimate reason to
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:41.519
tell me that why these glasses are a better choice
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:44.000
then i'm very happy to hear it but there's a
00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.820
lot of kind of the masking and the excusing for
00:36:48.820 --> 00:36:52.179
the sake of oh but can't we help this population
00:36:52.179 --> 00:36:55.840
who are so poor and and oppressed and the population
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:59.039
of that go leave us the fuck out of this would
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.760
you don't bring us into this don't bring us into
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:09.079
this don't need a camera what's the camera has
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:10.420
nothing to do with it you don't need a camera
00:37:10.420 --> 00:37:16.239
for that All right. Next up on the hit parade
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:20.099
here at Tech Grumps is David with an article
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:25.280
about Artemis. Artemis 2, as they call it now.
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:29.980
Electric Boogaloo. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah,
00:37:30.059 --> 00:37:32.539
I did notice. I think most people noticed that
00:37:32.539 --> 00:37:36.880
the coverage of Artemis was given that, of course,
00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:38.699
we have already gone to the moon and this one
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:40.820
didn't actually land. It just went around it.
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:43.369
There was a general. yeah, we've done this before.
00:37:44.070 --> 00:37:46.909
But the argument was, yeah, but, you know, it
00:37:46.909 --> 00:37:49.130
was some time ago and a lot of people haven't
00:37:49.130 --> 00:37:52.570
seen this. But even the BBC, a very nice, which
00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.449
I've linked to a global story, pointed out that
00:37:54.449 --> 00:37:57.309
there was kind of no new science or, in fact,
00:37:57.409 --> 00:38:01.489
any science to the degree where when they went
00:38:01.489 --> 00:38:03.369
to the other side of the moon, the dark side
00:38:03.369 --> 00:38:05.289
of the moon, they said, it's really good to have
00:38:05.289 --> 00:38:08.429
humans look at the dark side with their eyes.
00:38:09.099 --> 00:38:11.159
which is rather odd because, I mean, you know,
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.599
you can use cameras and that has been done. You
00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:17.380
know, we have robot cameras looking at moons
00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:20.980
all over the solar system. That's a slightly
00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:25.099
retrograde statement. But I think more the point
00:38:25.099 --> 00:38:27.519
here is I couldn't help noticing that the whole
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.519
Artemis 2 was sort of very vibes heavy. It's
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.420
like the personal story of the astronaut. While
00:38:33.420 --> 00:38:34.860
there's nothing wrong with the personal story
00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:37.079
of the astronaut, you know, I mean, you know,
00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:39.159
if you want personal stories, look at eastenders
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:42.059
probably costs a bit less than an entire moon
00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:45.400
mission you know not that much less yeah yeah
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:48.159
well the good eastenders yeah maybe the vr eastenders
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:50.880
yeah this is this oh this is oh i you you you
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.920
have also walked into my trap david like i i
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:56.699
i the the amount that it takes to send up that
00:38:56.699 --> 00:39:00.940
moon rocket and stuff is so much less than so
00:39:00.940 --> 00:39:02.920
many other things that governments are paying
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:05.960
for right now you mean like wars yes it's cheaper
00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.320
than wars and stuff but even like really expensive
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:13.300
TV shows out -budget the moon mission? The whole
00:39:13.300 --> 00:39:16.300
moon mission is very expensive. I mean, to be
00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:17.400
honest... Okay, well, wait a second. No, no,
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:19.280
no. It is expensive. What do you mean the whole
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:21.019
moon mission? What do you mean the whole moon
00:39:21.019 --> 00:39:23.480
mission? Because these things go on. I saw...
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:25.360
Now I'm going to give us a wholesome statistic,
00:39:25.579 --> 00:39:28.199
which I loved. Sorry, I'm a science fiction fan,
00:39:28.340 --> 00:39:30.820
and I actually barely heard about Artemis going
00:39:30.820 --> 00:39:32.480
past, and I think part of it was because they
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:34.139
wanted to avoid exactly the kind of kerfuffle
00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:35.980
we're talking about here, but here's the thing.
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:39.019
I think it was like, I think the date was like
00:39:39.019 --> 00:39:46.039
October 23rd, 2001 is the last day upon which
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:51.699
all of humanity lived on Earth. Because of the
00:39:51.699 --> 00:39:54.219
International Space Station. There's always been
00:39:54.219 --> 00:39:58.369
a human in space since that day. And we just
00:39:58.369 --> 00:40:00.610
forget that. We think that sending people around
00:40:00.610 --> 00:40:02.389
the moon is this new thing. It's like, no, no,
00:40:02.389 --> 00:40:05.989
we have had people in space solidly for 20 years,
00:40:06.130 --> 00:40:09.570
over 20 years now. And they're doing science.
00:40:10.250 --> 00:40:12.050
And they're doing science. They're doing important
00:40:12.050 --> 00:40:14.210
things. The astronauts, one of the astronauts
00:40:14.210 --> 00:40:16.789
who was interviewed, they gave this incredible
00:40:16.789 --> 00:40:20.369
answer, which was like, you know, is this something
00:40:20.369 --> 00:40:21.969
like, they asked us like, would you want this
00:40:21.969 --> 00:40:23.389
to be like your legacy or something? And the
00:40:23.389 --> 00:40:25.849
astronaut said, I don't want to be remembered
00:40:25.849 --> 00:40:31.230
at all. I want my going to the moon to become
00:40:31.230 --> 00:40:34.630
such a commonplace thing that my name is lost.
00:40:36.170 --> 00:40:40.590
What I want is for this to become commonplace.
00:40:40.650 --> 00:40:43.650
I want this to be a regular thing that people
00:40:43.650 --> 00:40:46.070
don't think about, that they don't treat as that
00:40:46.070 --> 00:40:49.469
exceptional. And I'm like, love you so much.
00:40:49.869 --> 00:40:52.110
And also, yeah, it was vibes. It was vibes because
00:40:52.110 --> 00:40:54.070
I think we need the vibes right now. Yeah, I
00:40:54.070 --> 00:40:58.889
think that was the thing. It doesn't matter that
00:40:58.889 --> 00:41:00.869
it's vibes because we needed the vibes. I still
00:41:00.869 --> 00:41:02.710
think it's a rather expensive way to do it. Also,
00:41:02.710 --> 00:41:04.309
I think a lot of the vibes that came out of it
00:41:04.309 --> 00:41:07.690
were being generated. Am I seriously the only
00:41:07.690 --> 00:41:09.989
person here old enough to have seen the original
00:41:09.989 --> 00:41:12.190
moon landings? I saw the original moon landing.
00:41:12.469 --> 00:41:15.869
I mean, a whole, I don't want to do this. No,
00:41:17.250 --> 00:41:21.730
I mean live. You're probably, you're probably
00:41:21.730 --> 00:41:27.280
closest. No, I was, you know, I was 14. yeah
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:29.719
i mean i was only eight or something but i mean
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:34.059
i'd do it i don't want to do the it's we've seen
00:41:34.059 --> 00:41:37.199
it therefore It's not new. That's a little unfair.
00:41:37.659 --> 00:41:41.780
No, I'm not saying that. It sounds like it. I'm
00:41:41.780 --> 00:41:43.219
just trying to avoid that conversation. It's
00:41:43.219 --> 00:41:45.340
just a little unfair. It's true. And the whole,
00:41:45.500 --> 00:41:47.619
yeah, look, you went around the moon. I remember
00:41:47.619 --> 00:41:49.579
when people landed on it. That was a bit harder.
00:41:50.019 --> 00:41:52.159
But obviously, we're not trying to sort of competition
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:56.159
here. And I do understand the engineering repeat.
00:41:56.380 --> 00:41:59.320
But a lot of this could be simulated. And I think
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:02.559
I'm afraid a lot of it is like, yeah, as Ryan
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:04.579
said, if they were going to do continuous missions.
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.960
which is the plan or rather uh more to point
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.940
nasa is this is the vibes advertising that nasa's
00:42:11.940 --> 00:42:14.019
doing look we could do this all the time it's
00:42:14.019 --> 00:42:15.820
down to government you know it's not there there
00:42:15.820 --> 00:42:17.739
is multiple factors here first of all i saw someone
00:42:17.739 --> 00:42:20.039
say like i thought i was sick of hearing about
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.039
space it turns out i wasn't i was just sick about
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:26.320
hearing about bezos and and and you know like
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:31.159
um musk as if if if if bezos and musk aren't
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:33.519
in the aren't in the story all of a sudden i'm
00:42:33.789 --> 00:42:35.650
really up for hearing about space stuff again,
00:42:35.690 --> 00:42:37.250
because it doesn't feel like an exercise in ego.
00:42:37.469 --> 00:42:39.469
And I think that's why a lot of this came out
00:42:39.469 --> 00:42:43.849
as this vibes thing, because we had Overton windowed
00:42:43.849 --> 00:42:47.389
space to the realm of billionaires. I didn't
00:42:47.389 --> 00:42:49.690
even recognize it happened, and that pisses me
00:42:49.690 --> 00:42:51.510
off, because that should never have happened.
00:42:51.730 --> 00:42:54.650
Space and the exploration of it, I mean, like,
00:42:54.710 --> 00:43:00.289
Wendy, you talked about this. When did we let
00:43:00.289 --> 00:43:03.199
it become that? It used to be one of the things
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:05.739
that we could really look at in a hopeful and
00:43:05.739 --> 00:43:08.059
wonderful way. And I'm saying as a science fiction
00:43:08.059 --> 00:43:13.780
fan, like I have licked the moon. Charlie Strauss
00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:18.460
has said that somewhere around the 1950s and
00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:21.900
1960s, progress stopped being measured in speed
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:24.039
of transportation and started being measured
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.400
in computational power. And I think that's right.
00:43:27.409 --> 00:43:30.750
And, you know, in terms of speed, we can't travel
00:43:30.750 --> 00:43:35.250
any faster in 2026 than we have in a long time.
00:43:36.949 --> 00:43:40.610
And so, you know, I think there's a lot of justice
00:43:40.610 --> 00:43:43.269
to what Charlie says there. Yeah, Charlie's just
00:43:43.269 --> 00:43:47.230
a great voice in this. Yeah, I mean, it's not
00:43:47.230 --> 00:43:50.530
that I'm bored with space, exactly. Bored with
00:43:50.530 --> 00:43:55.139
space! I think I think I'm just cynical about
00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:57.639
the motives behind doing it at this particular
00:43:57.639 --> 00:44:00.500
moment. I that's I agree with that. And I think
00:44:00.500 --> 00:44:02.340
for me, part of the reason why I like the Artemis
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:04.480
stuff was that it felt like I was getting to
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:06.780
view it with at least some degree of the cynicism
00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:10.519
removed because it looked like. I know, but I
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:12.780
can't help seeing it. I can't help seeing it
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:15.599
as Trump wanting to take one more one more thing
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:17.880
a past president did and put it next to you.
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.329
If you want to feel better about that. watch
00:44:21.329 --> 00:44:23.349
how the astronauts reacted when they had the
00:44:23.349 --> 00:44:25.030
phone call from Trump, because they wanted fucking
00:44:25.030 --> 00:44:28.250
nothing to do with him. They were so clearly,
00:44:28.289 --> 00:44:31.829
obviously like, oh, this asshole, when they called.
00:44:31.889 --> 00:44:35.590
They were borderline unprofessional. It was also,
00:44:35.590 --> 00:44:38.619
he funded NASA to such an extent that... he's
00:44:38.619 --> 00:44:41.119
clearly not interested like they've almost done
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:44.039
it in spite of him they really they really i
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.460
think one of the reasons why we didn't see this
00:44:45.460 --> 00:44:46.920
as much was because they were trying to like
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:48.760
look just don't talk about it just no one's paying
00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:50.739
attention let's just fucking get back out into
00:44:50.739 --> 00:44:55.539
space okay well yeah get around the moon not
00:44:55.539 --> 00:44:57.719
really into space yeah whatever that is space
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:01.880
stop it it counts don't be grumpy enjoy the vibe
00:45:05.099 --> 00:45:07.300
All right, next article is coming from David,
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:11.199
and it's about the deviation game. So we actually
00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:14.059
covered this very, very briefly last year. It
00:45:14.059 --> 00:45:17.699
was a Japanese game software, and they had the
00:45:17.699 --> 00:45:20.519
idea of saying, what if you played a guessing
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:23.440
game with humans and an AI? And the idea is that
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:27.000
humans have to make a sketch, and the other humans
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.420
have to guess what the sketch is before the AI,
00:45:30.579 --> 00:45:33.159
or better still, the AI gets it wrong and the
00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:37.090
humans get it right. And I actually saw this
00:45:37.090 --> 00:45:39.650
live. I went to the London Games Festival and
00:45:39.650 --> 00:45:42.030
that was in White City. And there was the team
00:45:42.030 --> 00:45:45.409
that did it. And we played it. Of course, when
00:45:45.409 --> 00:45:47.230
they announced the game, since they've done it,
00:45:47.289 --> 00:45:50.090
kind of the models have got a lot better. So
00:45:50.090 --> 00:45:53.530
rather horrifyingly, it's a lot. It's quite hard
00:45:53.530 --> 00:45:55.389
to fall the bottle now. So we had a wonderful
00:45:55.389 --> 00:45:58.690
one where, so it gives you a subject. I think
00:45:58.690 --> 00:46:02.409
it was like food. And this kid. drew a sort of
00:46:02.409 --> 00:46:05.869
pizza and then he scribbled all over it and goes,
00:46:05.949 --> 00:46:09.329
ha ha, this is going to fool the system. And
00:46:09.329 --> 00:46:11.369
we all looked at each other and thought, yeah,
00:46:11.449 --> 00:46:14.050
that'll work. That's a bit cruel, but that'll
00:46:14.050 --> 00:46:17.449
work. And what happened? The AI said, yeah, you
00:46:17.449 --> 00:46:19.969
drew a pizza. Then you scrawled all over it.
00:46:20.130 --> 00:46:25.329
And we were like, oh, yeah. So this is, I still
00:46:25.329 --> 00:46:27.369
think it's a great game and there will be times
00:46:27.369 --> 00:46:32.280
when the AI has beaten that. I didn't actually
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:35.059
realize the guys who did this, they weren't straightforwardly
00:46:35.059 --> 00:46:37.719
a software company. They were actually not a
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:40.119
games company. They were making a point about
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:44.320
AI and games at that point. And they sort of
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:46.559
got sort of challenged to, why don't you write
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:48.239
that instead of just making it an interesting
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.159
thesis? So it's ended up that they've made this
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:53.000
game. It is great fun. It is released, called
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:56.659
The Deviation Game. But now everybody, including
00:46:56.659 --> 00:46:58.820
developers, are wondering. if it has the same
00:46:58.820 --> 00:47:01.940
meaning as it did before, which I think is quite
00:47:01.940 --> 00:47:04.340
funny. I am so tempted to go back into some of
00:47:04.340 --> 00:47:06.880
the very early Simon Willison articles where
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.000
he's asking them to make SGVs of pelicans on
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:11.679
a bicycle and feed them into that just to see
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:15.960
what they say. Yeah, yeah. I see a perfect pelican
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.179
on a bicycle. by the way as an aside on that
00:47:20.179 --> 00:47:23.000
aside we what we are hoping that that simon is
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.739
going to do a gallery you know with vision on
00:47:25.739 --> 00:47:27.699
music for people who can remember the british
00:47:27.699 --> 00:47:31.400
show um with just the various since he asked
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:33.179
i mean he's done it you know obviously he's reviewed
00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:36.320
about 100 150 models just just various pelicans
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:38.909
on bikes from the initial attempts that, you
00:47:38.909 --> 00:47:40.829
know, the very early, you know, Haiku did, which
00:47:40.829 --> 00:47:43.190
were all rubbish, to the current event, to the
00:47:43.190 --> 00:47:45.190
current versions, which are all quite good because,
00:47:45.269 --> 00:47:48.389
of course, now anybody releasing a model knows
00:47:48.389 --> 00:47:51.389
that they have to have a pelican on a bicycle
00:47:51.389 --> 00:47:55.250
because even though Simon does variations, everyone
00:47:55.250 --> 00:47:57.809
knows that that's going to be asked. That sounds
00:47:57.809 --> 00:47:59.809
like something I should have on my website, a
00:47:59.809 --> 00:48:03.530
pelican on a bike. Absolutely. Pelican crossing,
00:48:03.750 --> 00:48:06.519
pelican on a bike, you know. Yeah, well. There's
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:10.400
endless images of pelicans on bikes. Also, there
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:13.099
are two things I want to say. I suspect, and
00:48:13.099 --> 00:48:15.239
you might not have remembered this, the Deviation
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:18.440
game feels like there might be a reference to
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:22.880
the Imitation game. Sure. Yes. I didn't want
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.440
to ask them that in case it wasn't, but it did
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:26.760
feel to me as if it probably was. Watch yourself.
00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:28.900
I know the guy who does the pelicans, and he's
00:48:28.900 --> 00:48:32.980
okay. Don't you go dissing that. I was actually
00:48:32.980 --> 00:48:34.900
bothered. I was actually bothered, like, hey.
00:48:35.389 --> 00:48:38.550
hey hey that guy's forgotten more about ai than
00:48:38.550 --> 00:48:42.210
you know also sadly of course he just likes pelicans
00:48:42.210 --> 00:48:44.789
it's like he went to half moon bay saw pelicans
00:48:44.789 --> 00:48:46.670
well there's pelicans here that's amazing so
00:48:46.670 --> 00:48:49.309
and he said that if ai is not there to help you
00:48:49.309 --> 00:48:54.090
follow your passions what good is it And that's
00:48:54.090 --> 00:48:56.289
it for the main points we had for Tech Grumps
00:48:56.289 --> 00:48:59.210
this time around. The only thing left to do is
00:48:59.210 --> 00:49:02.389
any other business, and starting us off is Wendy.
00:49:03.489 --> 00:49:07.150
What have you got for us? A friend of mine sent
00:49:07.150 --> 00:49:09.849
me to a site called Replace by Claude, which
00:49:09.849 --> 00:49:13.429
basically tries to analyze your online pronouncements
00:49:13.429 --> 00:49:16.449
and estimate how easy it would be to replace
00:49:16.449 --> 00:49:19.530
you with a system prompt. And I'm sorry to tell
00:49:19.530 --> 00:49:22.230
you that I'm 74 % replaceable. So, you know,
00:49:22.250 --> 00:49:24.929
next time you don't really need me. No, I don't
00:49:24.929 --> 00:49:26.989
believe that. You're replaceable, Wendy. We do
00:49:26.989 --> 00:49:30.050
not believe it. Next up, we have Ian. What do
00:49:30.050 --> 00:49:33.340
you got for us? Yeah, so there is a conference
00:49:33.340 --> 00:49:36.500
called OgCamp, which I'm not going to go into
00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:39.699
the whole bar camp thing, but this is about,
00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:43.559
it's an unconference celebrating free culture,
00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:47.500
free and open source software, hacking, all that
00:49:47.500 --> 00:49:50.440
kind of stuff. And it's really good stuff. If
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:52.960
you are listening to TechGuns, you probably would
00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:55.920
really appreciate something like OgCamp. And
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.539
there is one in Manchester next week. on the
00:49:59.539 --> 00:50:04.840
25th to the 26th of April. And I happen to be
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:08.239
talking in the main room about Digital Legacy,
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:12.860
which was mentioned briefly by, I think, Ryan.
00:50:13.139 --> 00:50:18.420
So, yeah, I do recommend you should go and sign
00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:22.179
up or go and look for another odd camp in another
00:50:22.179 --> 00:50:26.840
country. That's it. That's cool. And we have
00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:30.019
something from Hannah. So I mentioned Gamers
00:50:30.019 --> 00:50:31.739
Outreach just in passing. We're going to put
00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:35.099
the link in the show notes for that. I've also
00:50:35.099 --> 00:50:37.820
added the link for Good Times with Scar. He is
00:50:37.820 --> 00:50:40.940
the hermit, the Minecraft player who promotes
00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:44.139
the event that he runs every year. It's a really
00:50:44.139 --> 00:50:47.980
cool cause and go and have a look. And that's
00:50:47.980 --> 00:50:49.800
it for another Tech Grumps. Thank you everyone
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.679
for joining us. We have had Ian. Bye everyone.
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:58.539
Look out for me on the Fediverse. David. Bye,
00:50:58.539 --> 00:51:02.159
everyone. Look out for me on Blue Sky. Wendy?
00:51:02.699 --> 00:51:05.239
Bye, everyone. You can find me on both Blue Sky
00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:08.960
and Mastodon. Hannah? Thank you. Don't find me.
00:51:11.989 --> 00:51:14.309
I was going to do something very similar. Well
00:51:14.309 --> 00:51:17.050
played. And I'm Ryan. Thank you so much for joining
00:51:17.050 --> 00:51:19.309
us for another session. And hopefully we'll talk
00:51:19.309 --> 00:51:21.030
to one of you. If you would like to join us on
00:51:21.030 --> 00:51:23.469
Tech Grumps, please do reach out. I believe,
00:51:23.489 --> 00:51:25.909
Ian, the hashtag is Tech Grumps on the Fediverse
00:51:25.909 --> 00:51:28.329
or on Blue Sky. And we'll come find us. But you
00:51:28.329 --> 00:51:30.070
can find us that way. Is that correct, Ian? Yeah,
00:51:30.090 --> 00:51:32.809
that is right. And the Bird 5 will pick you up.
00:51:32.889 --> 00:51:35.710
Yep. That's right. Fly in and grab you and join
00:51:35.710 --> 00:51:37.889
us in the fun of being grumpy about tech. Thanks,
00:51:37.969 --> 00:51:40.949
everyone, and have a great rest of your time
00:51:40.949 --> 00:51:43.590
till you hear us again. Bye! Bye!