BONUS | Hey Pastor, Do You know Who’s Teaching Your Women?

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[SPEAKER_03]: Hey Pastor, I'm Kelly Needham, one of the co-founders of Teach Equip, and I'm so glad you're here.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Many pastors don't know who is influencing the lives and theology of the women in their church.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we think that's a problem.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And our pastors thought it was a problem too.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Years ago, they started a conversation with us to begin to solve that problem.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And last year, we had a conversation with them about this very thing at a conference.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we'd love for you to take a listen.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We hope it might spark some conversation between you and some trusted women in your church.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to our class.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We know what they're doing.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Let's introduce ourselves first.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We have to ascend an hour and some change here.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
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[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Let's do some introductions first.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe that.
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[SPEAKER_08]: My name is Lindsay Shot.
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[SPEAKER_08]: I'm on staff at Stunket Church in Lothian.
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[SPEAKER_08]: I am a part of the women's team and I am a women's teacher at our church.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So I've been at Stunket since 2015.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And I just love it.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Very sweet.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Kelly need him, not on staff.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's still gate, but have served as a women's ball city teacher, volunteer support to our staff.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And alongside Lindsay have helped train women teach in our context.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And we've been at our church since 2011.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Hot, man, hot, man.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm married to this guy.
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[SPEAKER_04]: My name is Jimmy, I am the teaching and worship pastor at Stone Gate.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Midlothians, by the way, if you don't know, is South Dallas.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So, nobody knows.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Nobody knows.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So, what I mean to say is for everybody, it's South.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, we've been there for a while, and that's it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My name is Rodney and 15 years ago planted Stone Gate and just been along for the ride and watching the Lord do this thing and and part of what we have been along for the ride for is watching kind of this thing happen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Which we get the privilege to share with you today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be fun.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so, let me orient us to this conversation before we jump in, head long, what are we talking about, here's how I want to do it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about it using Pixar's Incredibles, because I have five kids, and all I do is watch Pixar films.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I watch them in Greek and Hebrew.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I know them.
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[SPEAKER_04]: very well, and I see life through the Pixar prism.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So, is there a prism?
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[SPEAKER_04]: There's a prism.
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[SPEAKER_04]: You don't know?
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[SPEAKER_04]: No, you don't.
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[SPEAKER_04]: That's fine, guys.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So, the moving cradles is, I don't know if you've seen it, but it's not what you think it's about.
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[SPEAKER_04]: You thought it was about a superhero family that's
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[SPEAKER_04]: Overcomes all these obstacles and they're united together and the end that's that's not what it's about if that's what you thought See me after class The movie is it's a horror film about the perils of bad discipleship.
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[SPEAKER_04]: That's what it's about
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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It opens.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Mr. Credwell's doing his thing.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And then you got that guy buddy who comes along, he's just having a shoulder all the things.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He's just teaching me your ways.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I want to know, like, he's got a lot of sponk, he's excited.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He wants to do this thing.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He wants to be trained in the ways of superheroishness and, and Mr. Credwell's not having it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And then he walks away all selling.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And you don't see him for like the front half of the movie.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Then he shows up again at the back half of the movie.
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[SPEAKER_04]: But this time he's a grown man and he's not buddy anymore.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And what he's been doing for the past 10, 15 years is he's been training himself.
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[SPEAKER_04]: He didn't get it from that guy.
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[SPEAKER_04]: So he just went away on his computers, figured out all the stuff, and he came back, and he ended up coming back as a super villain and almost destroying humanity.
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[SPEAKER_04]: The point here is... That's super, it's not.
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[SPEAKER_04]: You had leadership who saw someone who was eager to be developed, they said no and the consequences were dire.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I wonder if you're making the connection between where we're going.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Let me speak maybe to pastors in there right now.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Your church is made up of a majority women.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Now, there's very likely more women in them.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And we have pastoral responsibilities.
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[SPEAKER_04]: It's to develop a disciple and grow sharpen our women.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so many of us know in this room are women are hungry to not just learn truths about God, but to learn how to handle that truth well in a way that could be helpful to other people.
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[SPEAKER_04]: conviction about complementarity that maybe sometimes can be over-realized, we have very often in kind and maybe not so kind ways, said no to that, those opportunities for development.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And what has been happening, I wonder if you've seen it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: We've seen it.
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[SPEAKER_04]: What has been happening is our women who are still eager.
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[SPEAKER_04]: They want to grow.
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[SPEAKER_04]: They want to develop our saying, well, if you're not going to do, I'll just go get developed.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just going to go find places to get developed.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And that means they're going now, not inside your church, they're going outside your church.
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[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to YouTube.
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[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to these 15 women that if I named all their names, you would know all of them, some of them you like, some of them are heretics.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And they're learning how to navigate God's word through these people.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And so what's happening is the energy of so many, so many people in your church is moving outside your church to get developed and then it's staying outside your church as they're exercising those gifts and we're here today because we're saying we think that's a problem.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And in God's weird economy at our church, God has been doing some unusual things to undo some of that.
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[SPEAKER_04]: And in ways that I think we can still say, we are confidently biblical in our operation of those things.
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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah, hey, that girl.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and if you're not aware of it, I just speaking as a woman who cares about these issues.
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[SPEAKER_03]: If you're not aware of what's out there in the women's Bible teacher space, let me just tell you, it is a booming business.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There are more women than you can imagine that have more influence than you probably have, that are exercising in authoritative voice about God's word.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Not only is it a booming business, it is the wild wild west.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There are no rules.
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[SPEAKER_03]: There is no authority.
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[SPEAKER_03]: And that doesn't say for the women teaching him for those listening.
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[SPEAKER_03]: We know that the teaching of God's word is meant to be inside the walls of the local church with elders and pastors carrying and shepherding over that.
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[SPEAKER_03]: But that's not what's happening from most women.
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[SPEAKER_03]: most women are getting disabled outside of that ecosystem and the ones that have genuine gifting and teaching only see it outside and then they go outside themselves to do that usually well-intentioned but it moves outside of the safe ecosystem of the local church.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, one of the specific ways we actually saw this working itself out recently is that Kelly and I are working right now.
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[SPEAKER_08]: We're equipping about nine women in a program that we have and on the group text that we have a woman brought up a short clip of a I guess you could say Bible influencer.
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[SPEAKER_08]: one year it she's teaching the Bible.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And so the lesson came out and here's the punch child Leah in Genesis.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Try to earn the love of a husband by having children.
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[SPEAKER_08]: You should not earn the love of a man because salvation is by faith.
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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_08]: What?
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[SPEAKER_08]: What is happening right now?
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[SPEAKER_08]: So that's what's going on.
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[SPEAKER_08]: 700 to say 5,000 followers and I show this to our director of theological equipping at our church and I say this is what we're dealing with and he was shocked.
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[SPEAKER_08]: He was shocked and I suggested this is par for the course.
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[SPEAKER_08]: This is par for the course, not every woman voice is this bad, but this is very normal.
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[SPEAKER_08]: This is a very normal message that we are very used to.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And women trying women may, and the women we are could be how to good instinct.
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[SPEAKER_08]: They said, I don't, I don't think this is right.
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[SPEAKER_08]: But they weren't sure how to say why it wasn't right and so we coached them through that and it was a great moment to say you're right your instinct is right let's talk about why it was a incredible moment for them to learn exegesis context and all of that but they had a right instinct they didn't know where else to go to have that conversation yeah yep no that's good
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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, do we have too much?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we have too.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There it is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, let me just kind of give a snippet and I'm going to let the ladies just kind of give the story of kind of what's happened, but I hope you're getting a sense of like, okay, there may be a problem that needs a dressing and our church maybe needs to grow in a sense of awareness about this particular problem.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, we planted in 2009 and, you know, I've always been, like, happily, complementarred.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was really oblivious to, like, oh, this lot could be a thing that I need to think about, and like, all that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first 10 years of our church is happily complementary, but just not thinking about how do we help our ladies flourish in this particular area, in particular those with teaching gifts and these sorts of things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How do we help equip serve those ladies?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was saved by social media, you can believe that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: As we all are, that's a sentence that I've never said and I've never heard of a lie.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, about five years ago, I came across this tweet from Jen Wilkins.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be up on the screen for you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's when I read this, you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This was the thing that kind of got the wheels turning for me and then our older team and kind of from there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, public service announcement to church leaders.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Here it is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Your women won't stop going to women's Bible study if you decide not to offer it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They'll just go where it's being offered leaving you zero idea of what they're learning and all the accountability for.
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[SPEAKER_00]: By prioritizing and resourcing it, you serve them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to read that one more time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This was like the thing right here that got us thinking about it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This was five years ago, PSA Church Leaders.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Your women won't stop going to women's Bible study if you decide not to offer it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They'll just go where it's being offered.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the downside for you and your church.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Leaving you zero idea of what they're learning and all the accountability for by prioritizing and resourcing it, you serve them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that was the moment of like, oh, I had not thought very much about those three sentences and we probably should give some thought work to those three sentences.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we chat about that with our elder team for a bit, and then we invited four ladies in our church that we trusted.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There's more about, we're probably going to talk a little bit more about like the what of those ladies and who of those ladies because that's really important in the conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But we invited those girls into an elder meeting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We put that sentence in front of all of us, and we just, with a lot of like a posture of curiosity said, we want to see what we don't see here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This does seem like there may be something that we have not been overly aware of.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we would love to see this issue from your lens to help us just fill out some maybe blind spots that we have had.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And some areas that we were just not overly aware that there is a problem here that we should address.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that moment happened.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Here's four of our ladies and our church in our elder meeting and this is the conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now from there, I just want to let you guys fill in the story of life.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Your experience from roughly five years ago today.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so four years ago, I get called into a meeting of elders in the ladies and I wasn't sure quite what to expect in that moment.
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[SPEAKER_08]: I couldn't get fired because I was a volunteer, but I bought painting.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe this is the moment, you know, what's up?
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[SPEAKER_08]: It wasn't that it was much better.
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[SPEAKER_08]: They took the women they knew were faithful in the church and they said, hey, what what is going on with the women in our church?
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[SPEAKER_08]: Because we think you probably know what that is.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Maybe you have a better pulse on that than we do.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So we'd like to hear about that.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So I was an incredible ask on there we have to say you probably know.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So tell us what it is.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And then the next question was, what can get improved, what holes are there, what can be better, what do you, what do you see outside of our church that we are going to, is it worth us doing it in house, all phenomenal questions.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And we still have questions, we didn't yet have all the answers, but it was a conversation with great questions, with great listening.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And together we all brought solutions to the table, brainstorming great solutions together.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And that was the biggest part being invited into this conversation where we are talking together.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And at the end of that conversation, they said, you have our support.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So what do you need?
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[SPEAKER_08]: What do you need?
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[SPEAKER_08]: You have our backing.
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[SPEAKER_08]: What do you need?
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[SPEAKER_08]: And the result of that for us as volunteers were in our church who love our church, who love the women of our church, who love the leadership of our church.
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[SPEAKER_08]: The result of that moment was so much confidence from me knowing that my pastors,
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[SPEAKER_08]: I have never wanted to work under the leadership of someone so hard once I knew they were for us.
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[SPEAKER_08]: When I knew they were for us, I was like, we will do whatever you want, we will go and I wanted to affirm that leadership and I wanted to run and they said, then run and we will support you.
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[SPEAKER_08]: Let's keep talking.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It was wildly influential just for them to talk to us, to listen, and have us together solve these issues.
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[SPEAKER_08]: A second thing that happened after that, which was incredible, is that at the time something called preaching lab was already happening, they're men in our church who were getting practice and they were getting feedback and it's an incredible way to learn communicating it is the best.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And so Rodney said to Kelly and I, I want you guys come participating that and at first we said what?
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[SPEAKER_08]: Are you sure?
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[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_08]: A little uncomfortable.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And so they invited us to come and to listen, and we listened, and it was an incredible experience.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And I think we both thought that we would just sit and be silent.
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[SPEAKER_08]: And when I said, I'll come, but I won't get feedback.
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[SPEAKER_08]: I remember Rodney said, oh yeah, you will.
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[SPEAKER_08]: So that permission was incredible to be able to say, all right, here's what I think is a communicator.
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[SPEAKER_08]: The second thing that happened is that Kelly and I both taught in that same lab because we needed the feedback.
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[SPEAKER_08]: We need the practice.
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[SPEAKER_08]: We needed to be told, you need an outline.
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[SPEAKER_08]: You're probably need a main idea.
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[SPEAKER_08]: You also need some illustrations in there because you just running through your explanation of this is hard to listen to.
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[SPEAKER_08]: You know, you need that as a communicator and they gave it to us.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It was key in art.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It was instrumental.
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[SPEAKER_08]: It was indispensable and us being teachers of God's Word to our women, we were invited into that and welcomed into that and sharpened by it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Can I just say one thing about it too?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Jimmy is a really great communicator.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So he is just a really phenomenal preacher.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm average at reaching.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But our best preachers in our church are some of our ladies.
15:11.533 --> 15:18.218
[SPEAKER_00]: like they, they're gifted in these ways in in ways that I have just loved to watch grow in flourish.
15:18.258 --> 15:20.740
[SPEAKER_00]: And for you too, it's like you guys are incredibly gifted.
15:20.760 --> 15:34.029
[SPEAKER_00]: And so part of what was so fun for us in a moment like that is just being able to look at ladies who, um, it's not normal to be affirmed in these areas and to say, you do have some unique gifting here in the area of teaching.
15:34.089 --> 15:36.511
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to look in the eye and say, that's really unique.
15:36.771 --> 15:38.532
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you should develop that and like do the thing
15:39.873 --> 15:42.754
[SPEAKER_08]: That affirmation came for a key moment in just for me personally.
15:42.774 --> 15:44.614
[SPEAKER_08]: You know, I've got four kids.
15:44.794 --> 15:46.955
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm mostly just, I'm mostly raising my kids.
15:46.995 --> 15:48.175
[SPEAKER_08]: It's a vast majority of my life.
15:48.655 --> 15:50.376
[SPEAKER_08]: And I've got this thing kind of brewing in the back.
15:50.396 --> 15:51.376
[SPEAKER_08]: I've got love gods word.
15:51.496 --> 15:53.116
[SPEAKER_08]: I do love to teach it when I get a chance.
15:53.536 --> 15:55.677
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm not about to go build a platform on Instagram.
15:56.057 --> 15:58.118
[SPEAKER_08]: And me going, I don't really know what to do with this.
15:58.738 --> 16:01.739
[SPEAKER_08]: And that lab came into my life and with their affirmation.
16:01.799 --> 16:04.219
[SPEAKER_08]: It was like, so I shouldn't give it up.
16:04.719 --> 16:06.820
[SPEAKER_08]: So I shouldn't just give it up and just let it go.
16:07.400 --> 16:17.430
[SPEAKER_08]: And I will always remember, when Jimmy said to me the first time I taught because the care and the amount of affirmation coming for our elders means a ton.
16:17.670 --> 16:18.631
[SPEAKER_08]: It means everything.
16:18.671 --> 16:20.473
[SPEAKER_08]: So a small affirmation is a big deal.
16:20.994 --> 16:24.737
[SPEAKER_08]: He said to me, if this is not your gift, then I am Peter Pan.
16:25.118 --> 16:29.962
[SPEAKER_08]: And I remember it because it's funny, but that's why it was significant to me, right?
16:31.103 --> 16:42.552
[SPEAKER_08]: And so that let just that word, just that small thing can't be going and maybe go, okay, then I guess we'll keep investing in it somehow and keep going and invent the world to us and then everything.
16:42.912 --> 16:43.132
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
16:44.233 --> 16:53.580
[SPEAKER_03]: And as very conventional common materials ourselves, yeah, to really hunger to be underneath the authority and leadership of the elders, God's put over us to have them say that.
16:53.700 --> 16:58.003
[SPEAKER_03]: And Rodney did the same for me, listen to one of my messages early on and said, you're really gifted this.
16:58.043 --> 16:58.804
[SPEAKER_03]: How can we help you?
16:59.524 --> 17:04.110
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember being shocked, so no, that's normal, but we just want to affirm them as well.
17:04.150 --> 17:10.157
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not normal, and many of the women there know that, but it means the world and it creates a partnership that's beautiful.
17:10.277 --> 17:16.804
[SPEAKER_03]: And so from that, from being in love, we're looking at each other going, we've got to help more women have access to this.
17:17.505 --> 17:26.034
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there is no way the women that we know that we'd like to see have access to this that they would ever, ever teach in front of our pastors that are teaching on Sunday morning.
17:26.094 --> 17:27.075
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't feel safe to them.
17:27.115 --> 17:28.476
[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't get the best version of them.
17:28.516 --> 17:30.979
[SPEAKER_03]: So we just decided, what's built something?
17:31.760 --> 17:33.401
[SPEAKER_03]: As they looked at us and said, do it.
17:33.642 --> 17:34.142
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll help.
17:34.563 --> 17:38.386
[SPEAKER_03]: We created a program over the last like four years that has components of
17:38.947 --> 17:46.733
[SPEAKER_03]: class elements of teaching everything from how to study the text, how to make sure you have right exegesis, how to deliver that message, how to add an illustration application.
17:47.034 --> 17:56.541
[SPEAKER_03]: These two came in top for it, affirmed the women in the class, provided everything from a bill, they opened the building, turned on the AC, allowed us to come to them with council and help.
17:56.602 --> 18:04.748
[SPEAKER_03]: They provided commentaries for us, like there was such a partnership forming underneath the good shepherding of our elders, women were started to flourish.
18:05.669 --> 18:07.310
[SPEAKER_03]: So we developed what we've called teacher quim.
18:08.471 --> 18:09.231
[SPEAKER_03]: It's on the slide.
18:10.872 --> 18:13.153
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to talk a ton about the whole program here.
18:13.173 --> 18:14.494
[SPEAKER_03]: This leads to our website.
18:14.514 --> 18:26.419
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk more about that in our next breakout Lindsey and I. But the point being, um, we now have a program where we have trained in a clip, dozens of women and how many outside of the walls of our church.
18:26.439 --> 18:27.459
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of these are pastors.
18:27.539 --> 18:27.839
[SPEAKER_03]: Why?
18:27.899 --> 18:30.701
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're just going up getting asked to teach and I don't know how.
18:31.521 --> 18:35.283
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, who are at other churches, other A29 churches that have joined us on Zoom.
18:36.623 --> 18:49.853
[SPEAKER_03]: This developed through the encouragement of our elders, it's been beautiful, and what's amazing as well is we've seen significant transformation in our church ecosystem because of this.
18:50.273 --> 18:51.875
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me just tell you a few ways.
18:52.675 --> 18:56.298
[SPEAKER_03]: One is that we were able to develop a women's Bible study happening at our church.
18:56.538 --> 18:57.378
[SPEAKER_03]: top by our women.
18:57.718 --> 18:57.878
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:58.138 --> 19:02.539
[SPEAKER_03]: That we had a teaching team of three women who are coming regularly to the pastors of our church.
19:02.599 --> 19:04.240
[SPEAKER_03]: We went through a crazy astees.
19:04.460 --> 19:04.720
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
19:04.980 --> 19:07.241
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a hard book to teach.
19:07.561 --> 19:12.942
[SPEAKER_03]: And we had women learning the book and we're coming to our elder team going, hey, we're we're leaning in this direction.
19:12.982 --> 19:14.042
[SPEAKER_03]: Teaches, how do you feel about that?
19:14.062 --> 19:16.323
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's there's great partnership happening there.
19:16.763 --> 19:20.864
[SPEAKER_03]: And women are getting trained in God's word from women embodied voices in their life.
19:20.924 --> 19:23.144
[SPEAKER_03]: Not a disembodied voice out there on the internet.
19:23.184 --> 19:23.504
[SPEAKER_03]: Someone they
19:27.045 --> 19:31.629
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're no longer seen as the only gifted teachers in our church.
19:31.829 --> 19:34.291
[SPEAKER_03]: We've trained up other women, so we're able to host a conference.
19:34.311 --> 19:37.833
[SPEAKER_03]: And we had 15 breakouts when you're taught by women in our own church.
19:38.654 --> 19:40.035
[SPEAKER_03]: That other women are getting equipped.
19:40.375 --> 19:47.900
[SPEAKER_03]: Like in the book of Titus White, older women teach younger women, there's an ecosystem of healthy teaching and mentorship happening because women are getting equipped to do that.
19:48.741 --> 19:53.985
[SPEAKER_03]: It's bringing down the celebrity Bible teacher voice and platforming the voices got us already given us in our church.
19:54.445 --> 20:01.689
[SPEAKER_03]: and has created a lot of health, and vibrancy, and strengthening happening, and it's been really lovely, and that's why we want to talk about it.
20:02.130 --> 20:05.272
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been really beautiful to see me want to pass that on to more churches.
20:08.273 --> 20:08.734
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that.
20:09.294 --> 20:16.038
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe some of you hear that, and you're like, if that's not egalitarianism, I would jump.
20:16.178 --> 20:18.900
[SPEAKER_04]: My car was rolling over in his pulpit or something.
20:19.944 --> 20:22.866
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, is, have we abandoned orthodoxy?
20:23.006 --> 20:23.966
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's a valid question.
20:24.246 --> 20:29.029
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if you're at the Axeway Nine Carms, you care about orthodoxy, you care about theology.
20:29.049 --> 20:29.669
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, we, uh, and we do too.
20:29.709 --> 20:30.109
[SPEAKER_04]: Hashtag, we do too.
20:30.129 --> 20:35.112
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,
20:36.366 --> 20:44.972
[SPEAKER_04]: So, maybe we can just briefly define some terms and make sure we're on the same page or if you're not, if you'll be saying as you leave, complementarianism.
20:45.313 --> 20:46.974
[SPEAKER_04]: What do we mean when we say it?
20:49.616 --> 20:54.880
[SPEAKER_04]: Easy, quick definition complementarianism is men are better than women.
20:57.298 --> 20:57.938
[SPEAKER_04]: No, that's not it.
20:58.118 --> 20:58.559
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not.
20:58.819 --> 21:00.199
[SPEAKER_04]: He told me to say that, guys.
21:01.020 --> 21:02.840
[SPEAKER_04]: And I said, I'm not going to say it.
21:03.001 --> 21:04.761
[SPEAKER_04]: And he gave me five, but it's not going to do it.
21:04.801 --> 21:07.122
[SPEAKER_03]: Jimmy's got about 10 jokes ready to go for the 3-0.
21:07.322 --> 21:08.263
[SPEAKER_03]: Pop from the Ternism.
21:08.603 --> 21:12.725
[SPEAKER_04]: If here's how we talk about it, the short-hand way that we talk about it at Stone Gate is...
21:13.405 --> 21:15.406
[SPEAKER_04]: sameness and worth difference in rule.
21:15.727 --> 21:19.409
[SPEAKER_04]: That's, if you want to just say very succinctly, that's how we would put it.
21:19.429 --> 21:28.515
[SPEAKER_04]: Same as in worth, like we are radically egalitarian in the equality of men and women's worth before the living God.
21:28.555 --> 21:30.356
[SPEAKER_04]: We're all image bears before God.
21:30.677 --> 21:32.558
[SPEAKER_04]: We all have equal value before God.
21:32.818 --> 21:34.399
[SPEAKER_04]: We're made in, all of that is true.
21:35.100 --> 21:38.482
[SPEAKER_04]: And yet, we cannot deny what the scripture teaches
21:44.466 --> 22:07.383
[SPEAKER_04]: In certain sectors of life within the home, within the church, that communicate something beautiful about our triumd God, our one yet plural God at the same time, the deference and the leadership, all of that is saying something about God and it's communicated in real like parables playing out.
22:07.763 --> 22:15.109
[SPEAKER_04]: in the home, in the local church, in marriage, and in on an elder team and with leadership.
22:15.149 --> 22:20.473
[SPEAKER_04]: And so let me tell you how we're seeing it in our world.
22:20.513 --> 22:27.878
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you could say complimentary and you and I both know that can mean so many different shades, right?
22:27.898 --> 22:29.319
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a spectrum here.
22:29.880 --> 22:34.103
[SPEAKER_04]: Historically, we've talked about it like hard complimentarians, soft complimentarians.
22:34.523 --> 22:35.964
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't like any of those terms because they,
22:37.025 --> 22:39.306
[SPEAKER_04]: It always sounds like a critique of one or the other.
22:40.587 --> 22:48.252
[SPEAKER_04]: We are living, once we establish that complementarity is what the Bible teaches, can we just all concede?
22:48.392 --> 22:50.233
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of gray on the other side of that.
22:51.794 --> 22:57.718
[SPEAKER_04]: And where you follow on that, I mean, it's, it's, we're all clinging to the same verses to get there.
22:58.999 --> 23:01.560
[SPEAKER_04]: We are going to be on the softer side of complementarianism,
23:07.318 --> 23:20.485
[SPEAKER_04]: and the elder board pastoral leadership as the definitional borders and boundary lines around which men are to exercise their gifts in a local church.
23:20.745 --> 23:28.289
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's the one arena where we're seeing from the text that God is saying that is not where women are operating.
23:31.418 --> 23:38.604
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of other terrain besides that that they can operate in.
23:39.004 --> 23:47.671
[SPEAKER_04]: So in our church, I feel like there's a, that feels like 116th of the slice of the pie.
23:47.791 --> 23:54.977
[SPEAKER_04]: And that actually gets us excited because there's a whole, whole rest of the pie that we get to deploy our women to just,
23:55.937 --> 23:59.998
[SPEAKER_04]: obey the Lord in using their gifts in and it's been really great.
24:00.039 --> 24:04.220
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just wanted to before we go any further, just go, that's how we're understanding it.
24:04.260 --> 24:07.501
[SPEAKER_04]: Same to some worth, difference in role within the local church community.
24:07.541 --> 24:21.206
[SPEAKER_04]: We're seeing that as a pastoral elder ship, elder leadership, the elder work, and then the pulpit that authoritative preaching and teaching that is exercising that type of authority on a Sunday morning gathering
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[SPEAKER_00]: for sure.
24:26.607 --> 24:31.928
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and it's, I just even want to maybe take it one step further and say, word gladly, my complimentary.
24:32.988 --> 24:34.149
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not something we're ashamed of.
24:34.189 --> 24:36.149
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, we actually see the richness and the beauty of it.
24:36.169 --> 24:37.949
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, we are glad complementary.
24:38.390 --> 24:46.071
[SPEAKER_00]: And this, this thing is not a, any, the point of this breakout is not a, let me persuade you of where to be on this spectrum of that.
24:46.291 --> 24:48.932
[SPEAKER_00]: What is trying to acknowledge or is a spectrum with complementaryism?
24:49.032 --> 24:50.712
[SPEAKER_00]: And there is a boundary line to it.
24:51.152 --> 24:51.432
[SPEAKER_00]: And word
24:55.553 --> 25:06.197
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Jimmy in a lot of ways is probably platforming like some of the tension that we feel in a conversation like this of like how do you stay firmly complementarian as you do this.
25:06.737 --> 25:13.340
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want to make sure we've got the glad complementarian piece and we also want to attach to a training women is still that.
25:13.840 --> 25:18.902
[SPEAKER_00]: It is it it fits within that complementary like we are gladly training women too, so we.
25:19.882 --> 25:20.963
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to hear us say this.
25:21.063 --> 25:23.043
[SPEAKER_00]: We want you to be glad complimentary.
25:23.604 --> 25:25.645
[SPEAKER_00]: So we want you to hold your convictions gladly.
25:25.885 --> 25:33.388
[SPEAKER_00]: And even in our culture, it's like chances are as a pastor, do you do need some encouragement along the lines or along these lines?
25:33.428 --> 25:37.770
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it is that you are increasingly seen as just totally archaic.
25:37.930 --> 25:39.551
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the whole those convictions, right?
25:39.611 --> 25:42.834
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, we're black and we'll even take some reproach for it.
25:43.054 --> 25:46.377
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's that's all going to be part of the territory of being a glad componentarian now.
25:46.857 --> 25:56.745
[SPEAKER_00]: So yes, the whole those convictions and the second thing we're trying to say is, and you should teach women in your church to teach, you should train them to be good communicators.
25:57.465 --> 25:59.107
[SPEAKER_00]: We want both of those things together.
25:59.147 --> 26:06.833
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of the story of just my life has been, I held the first one for a long time before I got to the second one.
26:07.573 --> 26:10.297
[SPEAKER_00]: and we just want to encourage you get their sooner than later.
26:10.677 --> 26:16.224
[SPEAKER_00]: We want you to hold both of these two convictions to yes to complementaryism and to teach women to teach.
26:16.464 --> 26:23.693
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me back up now and I just want to address it from the pastoral side for a minute and give you a few of like the the way points.
26:24.573 --> 26:32.020
[SPEAKER_00]: That we had to kind of traverse through to get to this and all of this stuff to kind of happen and to see it flourish over the last five years.
26:32.080 --> 26:36.103
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me just give you a few of that sort of peaks in that journey of us getting here.
26:36.564 --> 26:38.085
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mentioned the first one already.
26:38.205 --> 26:39.887
[SPEAKER_00]: It's I would just call it the awareness moment.
26:40.665 --> 26:42.386
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the moment where social media saved me, right?
26:42.687 --> 26:53.075
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the moment where I saw that tweet from Jen that just raised the issue of, there could be a problem here that we have been unaware of that needs addressing.
26:53.836 --> 26:58.560
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of what I hope this does for you, if you're a pastor, it's just kind of present that issue to you.
26:58.600 --> 27:07.087
[SPEAKER_00]: Just so you know, even if you can't get to this issue like tomorrow, that this is an issue that we as a church are going to need to wrestle through to figure out how do we do this?
27:07.467 --> 27:18.574
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a problem here, our ladies are going to places, if we're not offering it, they're going to other places and drinking from wells out there, most of which are going to leave them very unhealthy.
27:19.635 --> 27:23.377
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've got women in our church teaching on a million different levels.
27:23.418 --> 27:31.083
[SPEAKER_00]: Just I think it's a good exercise for any pastor to think through what are the ways that women are teaching in our church?
27:31.983 --> 27:41.375
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to be amazed at how many of those there are from in your kids ministry to in your student ministry to older women teaching younger women in that Titus two type of way.
27:41.395 --> 27:44.178
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you're just going to have this happening all throughout your church.
27:44.238 --> 27:50.086
[SPEAKER_00]: And as a general rule, I think we would all say we would rather our ladies be better as opposed to worse than that.
27:50.506 --> 27:50.886
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
27:51.127 --> 27:56.211
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, let's teach our names how to be phenomenal at that thing, especially those you're gifted in these ways.
27:56.251 --> 28:01.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's help them flourish in that gifting so that we can release them in all of the beautiful ways that they should be.
28:01.855 --> 28:13.385
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, kind of way point number two is as you're you're trying to kind of think your way through how to hold these two realities is
28:14.786 --> 28:26.089
[SPEAKER_04]: thinking about your elder team, your pastor leadership, and really landing the plane on where the line is within your church leadership on this issue of complementarity.
28:27.749 --> 28:39.732
[SPEAKER_04]: We've had some just tremendous conversations on our elder board that Rodney's platformed where he's going to present a position paper of maybe it's x29 or maybe it's whatever and we're just we are
28:45.214 --> 28:52.503
[SPEAKER_04]: I know we all generally believe this is true, but let's land the plane, I'm like, wear on the spectrum, are we?
28:52.543 --> 28:59.231
[SPEAKER_04]: Because where you land on that sort of like, how far do we extend the,
29:00.913 --> 29:09.601
[SPEAKER_04]: the deployment of our women to teach that that is going to really drastically impact what you do now you speak to women and where you send them.
29:10.362 --> 29:12.504
[SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of churches, I don't think have settled that issue.
29:12.984 --> 29:20.031
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think a lot of elder boards have gotten that specific and granular with it, but I think it's helpful for you.
29:20.331 --> 29:22.313
[SPEAKER_04]: And wherever you land again, this is not a critique
29:27.551 --> 29:35.753
[SPEAKER_04]: you're gonna, you're gonna have tension from the top down, like you're gonna, you're gonna have disjoinedadness from your eldership all the way down, and that's just a mess and it makes things ahead of you.
29:36.133 --> 29:40.533
[SPEAKER_04]: And we already told you kind of where we've landed on that, but that is an issue that you need to sell.
29:40.694 --> 29:50.095
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again, this isn't like the breakout of let me help you settle it, but it's like you owe it to your church to be clear about where you are on that spectrum of complementaryness.
29:50.335 --> 29:52.756
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just encourage you to award that if you return.
29:52.796 --> 29:53.616
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't, oh yeah,
29:53.996 --> 30:00.718
[SPEAKER_03]: if I can just chime in, I think most of the women in your churches are so eager to stay within the bounds, but a lot of things they don't know where they are.
30:01.358 --> 30:03.178
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it was very helpful to hear from them.
30:04.318 --> 30:06.659
[SPEAKER_03]: We went through each specific arena where teaching is happening.
30:07.459 --> 30:18.502
[SPEAKER_03]: All the way from youth to adult ministries, other things, and it was like, here's where the elders should be teaching, and here we're open to other people, and for us it would, okay, we want to stay in the bounds, but if we don't know where they are, it does create confusion.
30:19.522 --> 30:19.662
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
30:20.042 --> 30:21.283
[SPEAKER_00]: So clarity in that issue is huge.
30:21.603 --> 30:26.364
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's one of the reasons why I think clarity is so key for you past Oregon.
30:27.424 --> 30:32.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you get clarity on where your line is and where you are on that spectrum now you can make this decision.
30:32.566 --> 30:36.287
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's help women flourish in every area we can to that line.
30:36.567 --> 30:36.947
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
30:37.047 --> 30:42.651
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it gives you a chance to think like that that we're no longer like trying just a guard the boundary.
30:42.911 --> 30:48.055
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to help ladies flourish in every way possible with our complementary.
30:48.175 --> 30:48.815
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get right.
30:48.855 --> 30:52.818
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's giving you now the clarity to be able to say here are all the areas.
30:53.318 --> 30:54.598
[SPEAKER_00]: that we want to equip ladies.
30:54.638 --> 30:55.819
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to platform you.
30:55.899 --> 30:58.220
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to help release you into ministry.
30:58.540 --> 31:00.160
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really what you're getting to.
31:00.200 --> 31:10.403
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in some ways you're developing a now a vision for where do we want ladies to be in our church preaching teach or doing all the stuff like what where do we want those gifts being exercise.
31:10.423 --> 31:14.345
[SPEAKER_00]: So clarity, you release it to a moment of now, everything up to that line.
31:14.445 --> 31:18.626
[SPEAKER_00]: You can say let's get our ladies equipped and ready to go in those areas.
31:18.686 --> 31:18.886
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:18.906 --> 31:19.566
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
31:20.807 --> 31:21.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else you want to say there?
31:22.487 --> 31:23.048
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you good?
31:23.308 --> 31:23.829
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
31:23.889 --> 31:24.170
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, again.
31:24.390 --> 31:25.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, great.
31:26.233 --> 31:29.297
[SPEAKER_00]: And then let me give maybe one more wait point that was huge.
31:29.617 --> 31:37.449
[SPEAKER_00]: And this opens up, I think, one of the critical conversations in this whole thing and how it actually is going to work out pastorally in a church context.
31:38.897 --> 31:41.298
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all of those things were happening, right?
31:41.398 --> 31:43.518
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're aware that they're maybe a problem out there.
31:43.598 --> 31:47.459
[SPEAKER_00]: We're, we know where we are a couple of materialism and that whole spectrum piece.
31:47.579 --> 31:57.502
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to release women and we have a vision for releasing women into all the areas that we can to fit within our couple of materialism and then God does what only God can do.
31:58.062 --> 31:59.803
[SPEAKER_00]: God gave us ladies to do that.
32:00.643 --> 32:08.767
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, and this is just where we are all dependent upon the Lord to give us things we need to see something like this come to fruition.
32:09.107 --> 32:11.148
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt this in a million ways, pastorally.
32:12.228 --> 32:14.409
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe that people show up at our church period.
32:14.889 --> 32:16.630
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like every Sunday when I come, I'm like,
32:16.990 --> 32:18.351
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe people are hearing.
32:18.751 --> 32:22.793
[SPEAKER_00]: That feels like such a sacred privilege from the Lord that he would be doing that type of thing.
32:23.554 --> 32:30.017
[SPEAKER_00]: And over the years, we have wanted to become a diverse church that really does reflect our area.
32:30.377 --> 32:34.840
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a lot of pastor friends that have wanted the exact same thing, but their church has not become that.
32:35.440 --> 32:43.184
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Lord has given us the right sparks along the way for us to look like our community, which I just every time I come in and look at our people, I'm like, God, I can't believe that.
32:43.284 --> 32:46.186
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you did something that a human manufacturer
32:46.886 --> 32:47.006
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
32:47.106 --> 32:49.388
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the same is true in this area as well.
32:50.328 --> 32:57.814
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to like progress in this area and see this happen in your church, there are things that only God can do.
32:58.494 --> 33:06.200
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is to provide the right sparks of the right ladies that would show up and be a part of your church to help bring something like this to fruition.
33:06.220 --> 33:10.783
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just make a couple of comments on the the who that made this possible.
33:11.043 --> 33:11.804
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of our ladies.
33:12.224 --> 33:24.253
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is an affirmation of Jen and our lady on staff, one of our other guys on staff, Kelly Lindsay just the core group of our ladies have been here with us and here have been a couple of the key issues.
33:25.033 --> 33:29.336
[SPEAKER_00]: One is there's been conventional alignment on complementarianism.
33:30.297 --> 33:39.241
[SPEAKER_00]: So where we have drawn the line as we have talked about that and gotten in the room with our ladies, it's like, okay, our lines are in similar spot.
33:40.142 --> 33:46.205
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now we can all be, we're not having to always fight about the, or the lines where they need to be.
33:46.685 --> 33:48.266
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've been able to settle that issue.
33:48.706 --> 33:53.508
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you, if there's not trust in, we are seeing the issue in a similar way.
33:54.449 --> 33:56.490
[SPEAKER_00]: This conversation is, is really a non-starter.
33:56.570 --> 33:56.790
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:56.930 --> 33:57.110
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
33:57.470 --> 34:00.993
[SPEAKER_00]: So trust in that moment is just huge.
34:01.674 --> 34:02.115
[SPEAKER_00]: It is huge.
34:02.715 --> 34:09.121
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is one of the sparks, and we can maybe even talk about that a little bit more later if y'all want, but that is, that is a huge piece of it.
34:09.582 --> 34:13.505
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I would say this just to encourage ladies in the room underneath now.
34:13.565 --> 34:13.786
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
34:13.806 --> 34:19.611
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we're convictionally in the same place, that you are the type of person that can champion those convictions.
34:21.012 --> 34:42.068
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's really the type of ladies that got us given us is as an elder team, we don't actually have a lot of conversations with our gals about complementary is now because our gals have those conversations with our gals about complementary and so it's not just that we have conventional alignment, but now we have champions of those convictions and our church.
34:42.548 --> 34:43.269
[SPEAKER_00]: and their ladies.
34:43.969 --> 34:48.172
[SPEAKER_00]: And man, just where we are culturally, we are not afraid to say the thing.
34:48.733 --> 34:49.833
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll do that.
34:50.734 --> 34:56.538
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it just in a church context, it is so helpful when you have ladies saying that thing with you.
34:57.139 --> 34:57.299
[SPEAKER_00]: So
34:58.179 --> 35:00.482
[SPEAKER_00]: those two things really made this possible.
35:00.522 --> 35:08.753
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was really in a lot of ways the spark that the Lord provided that if if got it not given that spark, we would probably still be kind of spinning our willsling this issue.
35:09.133 --> 35:14.319
[SPEAKER_00]: But with that spark, we have now over the course of five years been able to see the Lord produce some really amazing fruit.
35:14.380 --> 35:14.560
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:14.900 --> 35:16.202
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, everything else you want to.
35:16.402 --> 35:28.927
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I was going to, I said this to you guys last night because of our personal convictional belief and complementarianism, we were very content to be faithful doing the discipleship work in the little pockets of influence that we had within our church.
35:29.007 --> 35:35.570
[SPEAKER_03]: We were not going to start the conversation because we were not eager to, you know, bust through a door that wasn't open for us.
35:36.210 --> 35:42.673
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think the unique combination of that and really the initiation of our elder team to start the conversation brought about the right women.
35:43.493 --> 35:44.094
[SPEAKER_03]: That makes sense.
35:44.134 --> 35:53.584
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you're looking for those right voices, I think that initiation to invite them in is probably going to bring your greatest champions and created that trust in that partnership.
35:53.704 --> 35:57.848
[SPEAKER_03]: And is what we really think complementarianism should look like and be like.
35:58.309 --> 36:03.394
[SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, when we talk to women in our church who have beef with complementarianism, it's because they haven't seen this.
36:03.914 --> 36:04.094
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
36:04.815 --> 36:09.059
[SPEAKER_03]: And when we look at them and ask why they hold the beliefs that they do, there's usually a lot of wounding.
36:09.500 --> 36:13.083
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and there's a lot of really painful things in their past.
36:13.223 --> 36:14.445
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not coming from the word.
36:14.905 --> 36:15.065
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:15.386 --> 36:16.847
[SPEAKER_03]: It's coming from experience.
36:17.027 --> 36:21.391
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they, they don't know what to do with our church because we have egotarians that come to our church.
36:22.132 --> 36:36.875
[SPEAKER_03]: and they look at what's happening and they have a confused, I'm like, wait, I don't believe what you believe, but I love what's happening and we get to still hold the line, but but be an advocate for our pastors are really doing what we think compliment, caring pastors ought to, is they're helping us flourish?
36:36.935 --> 36:41.276
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're helping support them, happily under their leadership, it's meant to look that way.
36:42.016 --> 36:45.276
[SPEAKER_03]: So it has been really a unique thing that we all feel like the Lord has done.
36:46.196 --> 36:47.557
[SPEAKER_03]: None of us feel like the engineers of it.
36:47.737 --> 36:48.257
[SPEAKER_03]: We feel like we've
36:49.757 --> 36:50.718
[SPEAKER_03]: back and watch him do it.
36:50.798 --> 37:03.284
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think at this point we have a few other things we might want to say, but if it feels right, we want to open up some questions, that any of you may have, but it's been some time about anything.
37:03.905 --> 37:09.548
[SPEAKER_06]: And y'all publicize, like I know you said during elder conversations and stuff, y'all fear, I'm where you drew the line.
37:10.428 --> 37:13.310
[SPEAKER_06]: Is that available for curious churches to see?
37:13.330 --> 37:15.131
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't got to your own position.
37:15.171 --> 37:16.752
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a position paper kind of thing for
37:19.133 --> 37:20.034
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:20.154 --> 37:22.337
[SPEAKER_00]: We have no written a position paper on it.
37:23.518 --> 37:25.601
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're probably not helpful in that way.
37:25.941 --> 37:29.865
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I even think, broadly at 29s is a good place to start.
37:29.886 --> 37:34.371
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're going to platform it on your elder team, I think one of the things we did is just let's read that.
37:34.931 --> 37:37.454
[SPEAKER_00]: And then let's work from there on where are we?
37:38.555 --> 37:47.577
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually not, it's probably giving the sort of brise line possible to try to accommodate as much as they can in that world while keeping a boundary to it.
37:48.178 --> 37:49.898
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's a good place to start.
37:50.078 --> 37:52.959
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just getting a few definitional papers, position papers on it.
37:53.359 --> 37:54.899
[SPEAKER_00]: And then saying where are we?
37:54.919 --> 37:57.140
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you should also probably get maybe actually not.
37:57.260 --> 38:00.941
[SPEAKER_00]: And you should get one that is, maybe you're a thicker version of complementarianism.
38:01.421 --> 38:06.229
[SPEAKER_00]: that would represent more in that world and you should read them both.
38:06.509 --> 38:13.621
[SPEAKER_00]: And then here's the conversation let's start it and let's just spend time having a healthy debate and talk through.
38:13.921 --> 38:14.102
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:14.122 --> 38:14.823
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
38:15.988 --> 38:18.570
[SPEAKER_12]: as a ball up to the home.
38:19.491 --> 38:31.400
[SPEAKER_12]: It seems like the way that this works and your narrative was that the elders and the women, like ignited this discussion to try to draw the line so speed.
38:31.820 --> 38:43.209
[SPEAKER_12]: So then how did you communicate that to the broader church in terms of like, okay, we're sort of deciding this is where we're going to be on this and then this is how this is going to start to look, how did that communicate?
38:46.144 --> 38:51.326
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we did preach through first Corinthians around that time, so which got us to all sorts of things.
38:51.346 --> 38:53.808
[SPEAKER_04]: You had coverings, yeah, that's right, yeah, that's right.
38:55.008 --> 39:02.412
[SPEAKER_04]: But one of the things that allowed us to do, and it's one of the reasons we love preaching through books is you just bump into all the things, man.
39:02.712 --> 39:04.593
[SPEAKER_04]: So it allowed us to kind of pull the car over.
39:05.273 --> 39:17.164
[SPEAKER_04]: within a sermon and just do a treatment of complementarity and and and then we preach through Genesis before that and allowed us to do that as as God is making man and his image and what that means.
39:17.225 --> 39:27.895
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we've had some I would say a couple key pulpit all church moments that have got us there in a very organic way as we've just been handling the text subscription.
39:28.275 --> 39:35.900
[SPEAKER_03]: Which I would say, I don't know if there's a way for us to get this out to you guys, but a couple of the sermons you both have given in both those series that unpack some of that were really helpful.
39:36.080 --> 39:39.463
[SPEAKER_03]: And you were doing that work for our people to help play that out.
39:39.723 --> 39:41.804
[SPEAKER_03]: That could be also a great help.
39:42.305 --> 39:43.325
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how we can do that.
39:43.686 --> 39:46.888
[SPEAKER_03]: That you could platform to an elder team or to other people and leadership.
39:47.288 --> 40:04.684
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there is a way of communicating to your whole church that you're trying to address the things you're going to be most important there, and then I would say there's a way of talking about it and addressing it in some smaller contexts with the leaders in your women's world in your church that are going to be more granular.
40:04.884 --> 40:08.448
[SPEAKER_00]: Because now you really are having to think through like, okay, here's the context.
40:09.068 --> 40:16.154
[SPEAKER_00]: where does that fall for us that I don't even think that would be the best thing to platform on a Sunday morning because the council is just more general than that.
40:16.955 --> 40:29.987
[SPEAKER_00]: So you need to find what is like your most public moments and how that is going to be shaping in the context of your church and then what are the the moments that are going to be one step smaller than that and more granular that's going to get the clarity needed to the ladies and your church.
40:30.327 --> 40:30.928
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
40:31.806 --> 40:39.529
[SPEAKER_08]: This might be obvious too, but there's also just still a lot of little conversations that happen in Mama's between us, the end of another guy's questions come up.
40:39.609 --> 40:44.391
[SPEAKER_08]: So there is a broad communication, there's just still this interpersonal interaction, like, hey, I don't, what's happening?
40:44.491 --> 40:49.353
[SPEAKER_08]: What did you on Sunday, Jimmy, you shared that there's a teaching program for what, like, what are you talking about?
40:49.373 --> 40:58.516
[SPEAKER_08]: So there's also just still that interpersonal interaction where because we've been on the same page, we're communicating consistently even on an individual basis with people of questions.
40:58.697 --> 40:59.017
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
40:59.517 --> 40:59.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Be better.
41:01.202 --> 41:01.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sir.
41:01.763 --> 41:02.043
[SPEAKER_00]: Fine.
41:02.384 --> 41:15.159
[SPEAKER_05]: One of the lessons that you've learned for things you could share about the boy and women into this face is between kind of the areas where all common materials are kind of comfortable children's ministry.
41:15.200 --> 41:15.720
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
41:15.840 --> 41:16.321
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
41:17.142 --> 41:20.006
[SPEAKER_05]: All the way between that space and the pulvin.
41:21.267 --> 41:31.115
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's a mixed cleaning classes, maybe even moments on stage in the gathered assembly that isn't the moment.
41:31.536 --> 41:33.097
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you learn of what can you share?
41:33.377 --> 41:38.041
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, as a complementary in those are the areas where I feel emotionally.
41:38.061 --> 41:42.065
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, how much to look forward because still feels great.
41:42.545 --> 41:43.145
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure.
41:43.205 --> 41:43.325
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
41:43.345 --> 41:43.565
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
41:43.605 --> 41:43.825
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
41:43.845 --> 41:44.105
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
41:44.165 --> 41:44.265
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
41:44.325 --> 41:45.306
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll do it well.
41:45.546 --> 41:46.086
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
41:46.126 --> 41:49.086
[SPEAKER_05]: This is where it still feels appropriately complementary.
41:49.166 --> 41:49.386
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
41:49.867 --> 41:50.127
[SPEAKER_07]: You bet.
41:50.507 --> 41:51.227
[SPEAKER_07]: Well, you can say something.
41:51.947 --> 41:55.448
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was going to say it feels, by the way, as a woman, it feels uncomfortable to.
41:55.468 --> 41:56.268
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:56.568 --> 42:06.230
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think as you're talking, I released a book this past year and in doing so, our Elder team was like, let's do a, a quick night on your book.
42:07.070 --> 42:08.151
[SPEAKER_03]: and it's not Sunday morning.
42:08.371 --> 42:09.052
[SPEAKER_03]: It's optional.
42:09.232 --> 42:10.053
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a Sunday night.
42:10.534 --> 42:18.361
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm on stage teaching to a mixed community of adults about research I've done, study I've done on a topic, and we've had women in that space before.
42:19.202 --> 42:25.949
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know, I don't know what one of you said it, but someone I think knew is Justin said someone pulled him aside and went at just a man in the room and was like, I'm okay.
42:27.230 --> 42:28.971
[SPEAKER_03]: But how how is this already getting there?
42:29.051 --> 42:29.891
[SPEAKER_03]: How are we getting here?
42:30.532 --> 42:32.093
[SPEAKER_03]: And he had to do some explanation of that.
42:32.193 --> 42:36.115
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for what it's worth, I just want to say one, I have wrestled with that.
42:36.135 --> 42:40.357
[SPEAKER_03]: Jimmy can tell you, I've been like, are you sure this is an okay ecosystem for me to be in?
42:41.077 --> 42:41.217
[SPEAKER_03]: And
42:42.618 --> 42:44.879
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's meant the world to me to lean on.
42:45.099 --> 42:48.940
[SPEAKER_03]: My elders are going to stand before God about that and I can rest in that submission.
42:49.320 --> 42:51.400
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're okay with it, I'm going to be okay with it.
42:52.201 --> 42:56.262
[SPEAKER_03]: And even in our theological director's theological development intro that night.
42:56.862 --> 42:58.382
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wouldn't have felt comfortable.
42:58.402 --> 43:09.825
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think without someone in that space setting the tone for the room for me and going here's why we want to platform this and then to give me that space to communicate what was on my heart
43:12.642 --> 43:12.822
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
43:12.862 --> 43:13.242
[SPEAKER_04]: That's good.
43:14.143 --> 43:22.185
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say, you know, a lot of these moments to the people who need the conversation and the clarity self-select.
43:22.625 --> 43:26.947
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, so like the guy comes up and it's like, okay, well now we have a conversation.
43:27.067 --> 43:29.668
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say broadly speaking in a church.
43:30.268 --> 43:33.631
[SPEAKER_04]: people are not waking up thinking, complementarity, what is it?
43:33.711 --> 43:42.819
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about, you know, like, just I would say it's not, it's not high on the list in most churches like in terms of like theological development.
43:42.879 --> 43:46.503
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would say we have a bump to up against like,
43:47.447 --> 44:01.358
[SPEAKER_04]: Man, like, a 500 people wrote a song, the email, and they all signed it, there's a chart, and you're like, what, that hasn't happened so much is like, hey, this woman had some questions, or this guy after that event.
44:01.579 --> 44:11.707
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I think it's been pretty case by case, and then the air war happens on Sundays where we're generally framing out the idea from the text.
44:11.787 --> 44:14.049
[SPEAKER_04]: And to me, that's caught so much of it.
44:14.309 --> 44:17.471
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think his question, too, is like, from you guys, why are you willing to do this?
44:17.871 --> 44:19.873
[SPEAKER_03]: Why are you willing to go into that territory?
44:19.893 --> 44:21.094
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, you bet.
44:21.234 --> 44:21.814
[SPEAKER_03]: And deal with that.
44:22.034 --> 44:22.875
[SPEAKER_03]: What's making it worth it?
44:23.035 --> 44:23.295
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:23.515 --> 44:25.617
[SPEAKER_00]: So, fire in mind, think about that, too.
44:25.797 --> 44:27.418
[SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting to your point.
44:28.179 --> 44:29.960
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the questions we get are like, why aren't you more?
44:31.046 --> 44:33.087
[SPEAKER_00]: like, why aren't you moving the line for that way?
44:33.127 --> 44:45.035
[SPEAKER_00]: So I find that most of the time we are defending not moving it further, you know, and trying to be really clear with people of like, because there's the Bible, you know, and here we go, you know, so that's where most of our conversations like.
44:45.115 --> 44:59.904
[SPEAKER_00]: We do have some of these like this, and I think to the point of like when when that got emailed us, I think this is, if I'm just speaking most clearly on the pastoral side, I think this is why you have to get fight for clarity on where are you?
45:00.945 --> 45:01.185
[SPEAKER_00]: you know.
45:01.505 --> 45:04.987
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I would even say if you're feeling a lot of gray, I wouldn't do it yet.
45:06.348 --> 45:13.612
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I would wait until you have sift it through it to the point where you feel in your conscience, okay, with this environment.
45:14.132 --> 45:16.633
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't, I would hold it up until you do.
45:17.093 --> 45:25.718
[SPEAKER_00]: So, this is where I think an elder team or pastor just needs to do the work to figure out where the line is because the last thing you want to be is super conflicted on the inside, a lot of it.
45:26.458 --> 45:33.980
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you want to be to a place where you have found some solid ground and feel good one way or the other pain in the price for happily complimenting.
45:34.000 --> 45:34.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that makes sense.
45:34.740 --> 45:35.200
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
45:35.220 --> 45:45.383
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's the most clear thing I could say for any pastor in the ring of like, you just, you're going to have to do the work in settling your conscience on a place and then paying the price for whatever.
45:45.683 --> 45:48.144
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no line you're going to draw up, it's not going to have a price tag.
45:48.264 --> 45:48.544
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:48.724 --> 45:48.924
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
45:49.284 --> 45:53.565
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like you just might as well settle where you are and then be willing to pay whatever price comes along with that thing.
45:53.905 --> 45:54.845
[SPEAKER_00]: to be faithful to those scriptures.
45:54.865 --> 45:58.267
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I'm question.
45:58.907 --> 46:03.429
[SPEAKER_09]: Um, I'm interested in your y'all's perspective on women in leading worship.
46:03.769 --> 46:09.531
[SPEAKER_09]: And so, like, I'm the worship director at our church and I do a lot of behind some things and have men who also lead.
46:11.272 --> 46:16.174
[SPEAKER_09]: But I think on stage, honestly, morning leading corporate worship, but where do you guys
46:19.258 --> 46:21.859
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm the worship pastor.
46:22.079 --> 46:24.800
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a worship director, under me, who's a woman.
46:25.600 --> 46:26.960
[SPEAKER_04]: And you said your role as worship director?
46:27.400 --> 46:28.221
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's right.
46:28.921 --> 46:29.961
[SPEAKER_04]: That leadership over you.
46:31.521 --> 46:32.142
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly, yeah.
46:32.182 --> 46:44.125
[SPEAKER_04]: So for us, that arrangement feels like it respects first Timothy and Titus in ways that we can hold our head up about.
46:45.045 --> 46:47.246
[SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, I mean, and this is that great thing.
46:48.352 --> 46:50.876
[SPEAKER_04]: you're on a stage on a Sunday doing the thing.
46:50.896 --> 46:54.360
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, so like, uh, so we just give her head covering say, get out.
46:55.603 --> 46:59.066
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, just like, yeah, go and go and go.
46:59.086 --> 47:00.147
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I love it.
47:00.347 --> 47:01.768
[SPEAKER_04]: That is not true.
47:04.471 --> 47:15.320
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it has felt covered by leadership in such a way and like, and again, it's part of the personnel too.
47:15.360 --> 47:22.165
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, she's so wonderfully differential to leadership and humble and like, we all know who is,
47:24.667 --> 47:28.450
[SPEAKER_04]: like we're the buck stops in terms of like the authoritative leadership of those moments.
47:29.051 --> 47:34.815
[SPEAKER_04]: But under that banner, we felt comfortable to let her actually lead.
47:35.216 --> 47:37.958
[SPEAKER_04]: Like let her say a thing before song.
47:38.318 --> 47:42.541
[SPEAKER_04]: Let her pray to close, you know, that moment before we go into the sermon.
47:43.142 --> 47:45.484
[SPEAKER_03]: Which can I just say you are training those voices, though?
47:45.804 --> 47:46.304
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes.
47:46.324 --> 47:53.370
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a worship institute that you're not allowed to have a mic if I'm correct without going through a program that is teaching and equipping and training.
47:55.264 --> 47:58.067
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's our way to just vet all the arrogant people.
47:58.327 --> 48:02.411
[SPEAKER_04]: Just know, oh, you want the stage for four semesters with me.
48:02.551 --> 48:03.392
[SPEAKER_04]: Please.
48:03.432 --> 48:03.672
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
48:03.752 --> 48:04.093
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
48:04.273 --> 48:04.473
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
48:06.079 --> 48:07.161
[SPEAKER_03]: How many more people have a question?
48:07.181 --> 48:08.462
[SPEAKER_03]: Real quick, it'll give us a sense of, no.
48:09.443 --> 48:09.783
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
48:10.444 --> 48:13.147
[SPEAKER_11]: This is a comment kind of a question.
48:13.267 --> 48:19.173
[SPEAKER_11]: I think a lot of churches that they wouldn't say they had quit women because they hired women.
48:19.794 --> 48:28.102
[SPEAKER_11]: How would you say, like, actually, you know, you're just hiring women thinking you're quit being women, you're actually not a quit being women within your church, who are just leaders.
48:30.168 --> 48:34.190
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's interesting, because I don't see those as equally, right?
48:34.370 --> 48:38.491
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, equipping should be the work of the church, right?
48:38.511 --> 48:40.012
[SPEAKER_03]: We're equipping the saints of the work of ministry.
48:41.812 --> 48:44.233
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know if there's a, are you just asking for clarity?
48:44.433 --> 48:45.574
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't see those as the same.
48:45.754 --> 48:48.355
[SPEAKER_11]: No, I know they're not the same, but I would be like,
48:49.215 --> 48:59.003
[SPEAKER_11]: I guess it's more like a comment that churches think that they are putting women because they're highly men, they have women around the table, but for me who's not higher, I'm like, they're paid.
48:59.443 --> 49:00.604
[SPEAKER_11]: Of course they are.
49:00.784 --> 49:04.828
[SPEAKER_03]: They're paid by how, like, no, of course you're just like, I can sure have a comment.
49:04.888 --> 49:07.410
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm sure you're just saying, yeah, that's fine.
49:07.490 --> 49:09.531
[SPEAKER_03]: I think some of we model what we've seen.
49:10.492 --> 49:14.395
[SPEAKER_03]: sometimes and sometimes we haven't seen anything else and I think that may be some of what is happening.
49:14.415 --> 49:18.339
[SPEAKER_10]: I have from like a smaller church person that didn't give one house around staff.
49:18.439 --> 49:25.524
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and yes elders, what is any encourage or advice from the pastors and the pastors and the teachers?
49:26.085 --> 49:33.831
[SPEAKER_10]: For a small church where we have like, we exhibit volunteers and one person on staff, how to encourage those types of
49:36.694 --> 49:39.218
[SPEAKER_10]: We really don't have the resources, we don't have departments.
49:39.818 --> 49:41.821
[SPEAKER_10]: No, just got like five of us.
49:42.001 --> 49:42.161
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
49:42.181 --> 49:42.782
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
49:42.902 --> 49:46.246
[SPEAKER_03]: Remember this conversation that we're describing has happened over the period of five years.
49:46.266 --> 49:46.807
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
49:46.827 --> 49:48.849
[SPEAKER_03]: So it did start very slow and small.
49:48.869 --> 49:49.190
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
49:49.410 --> 49:53.375
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say started with our pastors identifying if you people they trusted.
49:53.875 --> 49:55.116
[SPEAKER_03]: to start the conversation.
49:55.416 --> 49:57.017
[SPEAKER_03]: So it started very conversational.
49:57.397 --> 49:58.597
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, neither one of us run staff.
49:58.877 --> 50:04.760
[SPEAKER_03]: What we, they just, I think, trusted that we were doing the work to seeing as disciple women, and we had an eagerness to do that.
50:05.280 --> 50:06.881
[SPEAKER_03]: And so a conversation was started.
50:07.601 --> 50:11.223
[SPEAKER_03]: And an invitation to us happened to how can we support you?
50:11.343 --> 50:11.663
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
50:12.644 --> 50:19.749
[SPEAKER_03]: from our pastors, which was helpful because, even as we were trying to grow our own gifts, we could come back and go, well, could we get feedback?
50:19.789 --> 50:20.690
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, could we get this?
50:20.710 --> 50:21.030
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
50:21.170 --> 50:35.080
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something naturally that grew within our unique ecosystem, and I think it will look different for each church based on your particular needs, the particular people in it, your cultural context, but I do think it has to start with that small, conversational level.
50:36.481 --> 50:39.304
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think it requires anybody on staff, and I don't think it requires
50:40.284 --> 50:42.906
[SPEAKER_03]: much besides a few touch points.
50:43.066 --> 50:45.667
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, pastors need to scout.
50:47.468 --> 50:51.871
[SPEAKER_04]: You need to have your eyes out for those one or two ladies, and you're sure it is a say, it's a smalters.
50:51.891 --> 51:02.156
[SPEAKER_04]: Like look around, get curious about those ladies who are exhibiting the godly qualities we see in the text and then get curious about
51:04.398 --> 51:12.687
[SPEAKER_04]: their vision of things, give them a voice at the table and it was, I mean, that's, you're right.
51:13.528 --> 51:17.232
[SPEAKER_04]: There was no status, no cool website.
51:17.252 --> 51:18.954
[SPEAKER_04]: There's not, it was just, it was just,
51:19.875 --> 51:32.980
[SPEAKER_04]: Our lead pastor getting curious and identifying of the right gals to shoulder tap and go like we see something and and we want to we want to know how we can serve our ladies better.
51:33.080 --> 51:39.862
[SPEAKER_08]: It can be so it can be so simple and I love this small church context because you're looking at the context of the
51:41.943 --> 51:45.606
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes, so you don't live, the world is not a mega experience.
51:46.126 --> 51:48.448
[SPEAKER_08]: It is vastly a coffee table experience.
51:48.588 --> 51:49.748
[SPEAKER_08]: And so you equip the same.
51:49.829 --> 51:55.853
[SPEAKER_08]: And so you find, like they already said, these key women who are already faithful, it is usually women who are already making disciples.
51:56.253 --> 52:01.337
[SPEAKER_08]: It is women who already believe that being across a coffee table is much more important than them getting a microphone.
52:01.757 --> 52:04.799
[SPEAKER_08]: It's those women who are like, wherever you put me, I'm gonna be doing this.
52:04.879 --> 52:07.561
[SPEAKER_08]: Like I know that I'm making disciples.
52:08.041 --> 52:09.863
[SPEAKER_08]: And then those women, you say,
52:10.883 --> 52:12.544
[SPEAKER_08]: How can I help you get more of what you need?
52:12.624 --> 52:17.245
[SPEAKER_08]: I mean, a simple thing of like, Brian, what's your favorite leadership book right now?
52:17.805 --> 52:18.405
[SPEAKER_08]: And I read that.
52:18.805 --> 52:19.606
[SPEAKER_08]: And I learned from that.
52:19.986 --> 52:21.646
[SPEAKER_08]: Rodney, what's your favorite small group resource?
52:21.686 --> 52:24.047
[SPEAKER_08]: How do I help people become better small group leaders?
52:24.427 --> 52:25.267
[SPEAKER_08]: Oh, why just read this?
52:25.307 --> 52:27.028
[SPEAKER_08]: This is how you can become a better small group leader.
52:27.448 --> 52:34.450
[SPEAKER_08]: Those are like the, you know, the cost of a book and a conversation that kind of equipping and conversation is so helpful.
52:34.950 --> 52:36.491
[SPEAKER_08]: And none of that requires the staff person.
52:36.551 --> 52:37.752
[SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't require a big budget.
52:38.132 --> 52:49.059
[SPEAKER_08]: It is sharing, and someone is the resource of people and knowledge together that helps equip people to do the same work that the mega church is doing, which is just the gospel to person, to person, to person, to person, right?
52:49.580 --> 52:54.323
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're a woman in the room hearing that, I don't think you have to wait for that conversation to happen to get going.
52:54.543 --> 52:54.743
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
52:54.903 --> 52:58.586
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that you just were big advocates of just be faithful where you are.
52:58.606 --> 53:00.527
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe bring this up
53:00.667 --> 53:05.351
[SPEAKER_03]: to leadership in your team and say, Hey, there's a program I could join on Zoom next year and get equipped.
53:05.391 --> 53:06.112
[SPEAKER_03]: Would you look into it?
53:06.132 --> 53:07.073
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel okay with that?
53:07.233 --> 53:11.437
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd love to participate personally get equipped and to disciple a few women.
53:11.837 --> 53:14.019
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know any women who you like to see disciple?
53:14.059 --> 53:14.920
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I help with that?
53:15.901 --> 53:20.385
[SPEAKER_03]: Just go about the work of making disciples and deep disciples in your church context.
53:20.885 --> 53:26.389
[SPEAKER_03]: While you're, even if this conversation is quite happening yet in your church, and maybe your church isn't ready for it.
53:26.609 --> 53:31.652
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's other fires that are happening that you need to address, and you might need to be patient and wait for that.
53:31.752 --> 53:40.617
[SPEAKER_03]: But that doesn't mean you don't have to grow and you're clipping by asking for resources or taking our program and make disciples while you're waiting and praying for a change in this area.
53:40.817 --> 53:40.998
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
53:41.218 --> 53:41.358
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
53:41.858 --> 53:42.178
[SPEAKER_00]: So true.
53:42.639 --> 53:43.239
[SPEAKER_03]: Another question?
53:43.259 --> 53:44.680
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm so sorry.
53:48.102 --> 53:54.106
[SPEAKER_12]: You've just tried a few contexts in which women have been up front, described worship leading, or that can look like.
53:54.506 --> 54:01.811
[SPEAKER_12]: And I think a commenter had mentioned, we sort of have this like window between like children's ministry and everything else, or something, and let's go on on there.
54:02.032 --> 54:09.797
[SPEAKER_12]: And then you describe, you know, any or all of the contexts, you might see women in ways we have described.
54:09.817 --> 54:10.757
[SPEAKER_12]: You might be uncomfortable.
54:10.857 --> 54:14.280
[SPEAKER_12]: And then also tell us about what elder oversight and looks like.
54:14.960 --> 54:16.141
[SPEAKER_12]: and those contacts.
54:16.181 --> 54:16.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it?
54:16.841 --> 54:17.021
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
54:17.842 --> 54:18.382
[SPEAKER_12]: Is that young?
54:18.402 --> 54:19.703
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't tell you.
54:19.883 --> 54:21.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can help me fill in some blanks here.
54:21.704 --> 54:22.884
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
54:23.045 --> 54:27.207
[SPEAKER_00]: In all of our kids ministry, you're going to have people in rooms teaching our kids.
54:27.887 --> 54:30.268
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have men in there, we have women in there.
54:30.909 --> 54:34.851
[SPEAKER_00]: Throughout our student ministry, you're going to have men and women teaching our kids.
54:34.971 --> 54:39.313
[SPEAKER_00]: So in those contexts, we've got both genders doing the thing.
54:39.894 --> 54:41.875
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, now you're to adult world.
54:42.515 --> 54:46.418
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've got a lot of different contexts where our care ministries are going on.
54:46.979 --> 54:51.222
[SPEAKER_00]: So we still use redemption groups, that's kind of our vehicle that we're still kind of into for our recovery stuff.
54:51.302 --> 54:55.265
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's going to be most of the sessions in our redemption groups.
54:55.325 --> 55:01.089
[SPEAKER_00]: We split now, uh, genders, and we have a man teaching the man and women teaching ladies.
55:01.409 --> 55:03.331
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have just found that to be very helpful.
55:03.631 --> 55:04.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:04.652 --> 55:08.655
[SPEAKER_00]: To have some most of that happening in a gender plate.
55:08.675 --> 55:08.955
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
55:09.295 --> 55:26.357
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a few of those sessions are going to be together and that can be either or for us in terms of who teaches that in our like our marriage care stuff that we do there's going to be some both aunt and how the teaching and facilitating of those groups go so in our care world we are fairly open.
55:26.837 --> 55:27.097
[SPEAKER_00]: to that.
55:27.497 --> 55:29.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Jimmy mentioned the worship world.
55:29.218 --> 55:30.419
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be fairly open.
55:30.779 --> 55:32.140
[SPEAKER_00]: Kelly mentioned in equipping night.
55:32.720 --> 55:38.263
[SPEAKER_00]: When we have particular areas of equipping, we had brought Jackie Helperian to do a fame on sexuality.
55:38.503 --> 55:39.903
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've had that conversation with her.
55:40.724 --> 55:46.787
[SPEAKER_00]: Kelly is done a fame with the book that she really so, you know, those are the kind of environments that we have been
55:49.568 --> 56:06.266
[SPEAKER_08]: And is it what's mentioning just the community group, the home group moment is, you know, your community group, small groups, things happening in homes is usually not always, uh, but all the times that's a couple leading, that's minimum and together with engineers that are leading that group, they're facilitating discussion and they're organizing and ministering and making that happen.
56:06.486 --> 56:10.351
[SPEAKER_08]: And then we also have young adult groups where those are also colored by men and women.
56:11.168 --> 56:18.851
[SPEAKER_04]: And over all of those, you're going to see mail pastoral leadership guiding leading all of that.
56:18.911 --> 56:28.135
[SPEAKER_04]: So, over our quick nights, our theological director, over our care ministry, our care pastor, over, you know, so that is a, that's sort of how the quarter works on that.
56:29.333 --> 56:34.055
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is, this is where, you know, I've just found it to be helpful to find your line and then you can work back from it.
56:34.395 --> 56:36.235
[SPEAKER_00]: So that I think that's the key principle.
56:36.255 --> 56:39.496
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this is not a let me convince you our line should be your line.
56:39.536 --> 56:42.997
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just to do the work for you to find where you are on that spectrum.
56:43.017 --> 56:49.019
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can work back to say how can we help our ladies flourish and all the environments that that line would then sort of really some for you.
56:49.319 --> 56:49.519
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:50.740 --> 56:50.940
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:51.378 --> 57:06.405
[SPEAKER_12]: In terms of elder oversight, like to what degree are like the hands sort of in the in the teaching and sense of like, are we submitting manuscripts before like to be reviewed or is there a lot of trust of like, you've been trained like we now, does that question.
57:06.525 --> 57:08.406
[SPEAKER_00]: That is purely a trust issue.
57:08.446 --> 57:11.047
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when it comes down to how that's going to play out practically.
57:11.147 --> 57:17.310
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think when trust is small and and growing, it needs to have a lot more over.
57:17.970 --> 57:29.216
[SPEAKER_00]: when you're confident that we're all drinking from the same wells, and we feel really confident that, you know, part of what you're looking for throughout a church is how do we sound like our church in all of our environments?
57:29.817 --> 57:44.725
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a voice that your church has in a variety of different issues, and when you're confident and trust, oh, like when that teaching is happening in that care kind of moment, it sounds like us, then you've got trust and it's like I need to have less oversight.
57:45.325 --> 57:47.427
[SPEAKER_00]: when you're like, I don't know what that's gonna sound like.
57:47.547 --> 57:49.669
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, we need a lot of oversight right there.
57:49.809 --> 57:51.331
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I probably do need to see that manuscript.
57:51.551 --> 57:53.593
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and this happens in a variety of different areas.
57:53.653 --> 57:55.554
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just for ladies when they teach.
57:55.595 --> 58:01.180
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, there was a moment when our student guy was gonna preach on a Sunday morning, I'm like, I need to see that manuscript.
58:02.341 --> 58:03.702
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to have that talk before you do that.
58:03.962 --> 58:04.503
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
58:04.883 --> 58:15.828
[SPEAKER_04]: This is one of the benefits of having a program like Teachukia because it is sort of like okay now we're sharing the same theology now we're sharing the same methodology now we're sharing same language that has been a helpful thing.
58:16.068 --> 58:16.848
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:16.948 --> 58:21.110
[SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, how, how, how much is in it?
58:21.150 --> 58:21.330
[SPEAKER_07]: Great.
58:21.350 --> 58:21.490
[SPEAKER_07]: Good.
58:22.371 --> 58:23.811
[SPEAKER_07]: How are you racing?
58:24.912 --> 58:29.114
[SPEAKER_07]: For, I'm no prophet or son of a prophet, I wasn't for a night.
58:32.347 --> 58:33.127
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's enough.
58:33.167 --> 58:34.188
[SPEAKER_07]: And that's enough.
58:34.348 --> 58:44.450
[SPEAKER_07]: You church here, that it seems to me that in the so-called complementary camp, there is becoming what used to be a spectrum, I think there's becoming sites.
58:44.890 --> 58:45.330
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:46.410 --> 58:46.730
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:47.310 --> 58:50.171
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so true, by the way, you know the larger conversations.
58:50.311 --> 58:50.671
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:50.891 --> 58:51.711
[SPEAKER_07]: That's true.
58:51.831 --> 58:52.131
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:52.171 --> 58:52.691
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:53.411 --> 58:56.452
[SPEAKER_07]: So like, actually, that has cradle baptism.
58:56.512 --> 58:56.792
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:56.832 --> 58:57.032
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
58:57.212 --> 58:57.472
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:57.512 --> 58:57.692
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
58:58.808 --> 58:59.048
[SPEAKER_07]: Amen.
58:59.188 --> 58:59.689
[SPEAKER_07]: You're wrong.
58:59.789 --> 59:00.129
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
59:00.189 --> 59:01.109
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
59:02.550 --> 59:13.776
[SPEAKER_07]: How, in this issue now, how are you prepared to kind of take some of the, you know, because some of the things you allow other people to adapt to preach from the pulse against.
59:13.876 --> 59:14.076
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
59:14.516 --> 59:14.896
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
59:14.976 --> 59:24.681
[SPEAKER_07]: So how have you got prepared for some of that just evening, you know, and entering into that environment where we're all living in this sociological, steric fall that's 29.
59:24.801 --> 59:24.901
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
59:27.333 --> 59:31.016
[SPEAKER_00]: And if, you know, if you know, asked for nine, this has been one of the issues.
59:31.497 --> 59:41.465
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think part of what the last five to eight years has done culturally is it just moved everyone to harder positions.
59:42.025 --> 59:44.227
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we got the corners of the gut.
59:44.247 --> 59:45.748
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
59:46.008 --> 59:46.829
[SPEAKER_00]: How dare you say that?
59:48.590 --> 59:53.093
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, where you like six years ago, it's like, I felt like we were all getting along great.
59:53.393 --> 59:54.514
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that was awesome.
59:54.654 --> 59:56.315
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you draw your line there.
59:56.475 --> 59:58.957
[SPEAKER_00]: We draw our line here and it's like, okay, we're still on the same team.
59:59.577 --> 01:00:12.225
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is just a growing suspicion that if you're in the harder side, there is a growing suspicion that anyone who is, is left of you and where they're going to draw the line has to look on liberal.
01:00:12.565 --> 01:00:13.746
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, what are they going?
01:00:13.886 --> 01:00:14.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:00:14.706 --> 01:00:24.031
[SPEAKER_00]: And which I do think if you're like on our end of it, we do need to be very clear in where our lines are so that we can assure our brothers over here that it's like, we're with you.
01:00:24.891 --> 01:00:26.572
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not capitulating on this issue.
01:00:26.672 --> 01:00:30.334
[SPEAKER_00]: We are glad complementarians and we're willing to pay the price for it, you know?
01:00:31.074 --> 01:00:36.437
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but you're right to say it's like if you draw your line a little more on that, uh,
01:00:36.997 --> 01:00:39.819
[SPEAKER_00]: thinner or softer side of the complementary and spectrum.
01:00:40.539 --> 01:00:47.924
[SPEAKER_00]: You are just the dynamics are set to where you are now a liberal, you know, you've lost it.
01:00:48.184 --> 01:00:51.026
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, so, you all want to say anything else about that?
01:00:51.406 --> 01:00:51.786
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a liberal.
01:00:52.046 --> 01:01:00.352
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there's a feeling I have of like, you're going to need to be okay with being misunderstood and labeled that.
01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:05.767
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I want to be as gracious as I can to my brothers who draw kind of a line over here somewhere.
01:01:06.328 --> 01:01:07.890
[SPEAKER_00]: And I actually empathize with that.
01:01:07.951 --> 01:01:13.139
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, if you're, if, if pastorally you have worked through the text, you're going to feel all of the things.
01:01:13.179 --> 01:01:14.522
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Byron mentioned earlier, like,
01:01:15.077 --> 01:01:18.620
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm conflicted still on it and I'm not exactly sure where I want to draw the line.
01:01:18.660 --> 01:01:22.402
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it is a messy thing to figure out where those lines are.
01:01:22.442 --> 01:01:25.504
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I empathize with my brothers who their line is here, not there.
01:01:25.524 --> 01:01:28.806
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I can, I can, yes, how you get there.
01:01:28.826 --> 01:01:29.627
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's worth sure.
01:01:29.827 --> 01:01:41.195
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I think one thing I would say to that, too, is because women's teaching has been outsourced largely the authoritative voices are outsourced.
01:01:41.615 --> 01:01:41.735
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:01:42.015 --> 01:01:52.183
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's funny that you mentioned that because when I think about any kind of flat coming for that, I don't feel so worried, part of the cause within the ecosystem are a church with partnership and unity on those things.
01:01:52.664 --> 01:01:55.626
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the voice is outside of the church don't matter quite as much to us.
01:01:56.246 --> 01:02:01.010
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we look at each other and we're all okay here and we're seeing flourishing and growth in the gospel go forward.
01:02:01.270 --> 01:02:02.331
[SPEAKER_03]: So we can handle that.
01:02:02.451 --> 01:02:02.671
[SPEAKER_03]: But
01:02:03.612 --> 01:02:08.136
[SPEAKER_03]: If we're so tied to the outside voices, they, they bother us more.
01:02:08.556 --> 01:02:12.559
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think because there's not a lot of partnership between the genders and many churches, right?
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:18.144
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have that cohesive sense of teamwork together of going, we know where each other's lines are.
01:02:18.184 --> 01:02:18.844
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're for it.
01:02:18.884 --> 01:02:21.647
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're gladly chipping it and seeing growth and vitality.
01:02:21.667 --> 01:02:22.788
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's one of the things that
01:02:23.368 --> 01:02:49.344
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've made a distinctive of this teaching program for women is that it exists for the church for the strengthening of the local church that more women would be taught by women in their church under their lead pastors so that those voices die down a little bit that we want to see that kind of celebrity prophetic outside of the church voice get quieter to our people because they're getting taught and trained within their own local church environment and they're finding that to be the place that they can rest.
01:02:49.955 --> 01:02:51.216
[SPEAKER_03]: and be okay.
01:02:51.276 --> 01:02:54.278
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know if you all would agree with that, but I think that is a dynamic.
01:02:54.438 --> 01:02:57.100
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is super helpful, especially for the people in your church.
01:02:57.140 --> 01:02:58.881
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you are also right, Steve.
01:02:59.181 --> 01:03:05.786
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're in kind of the past or world, you're operating both inside and outside church, so you're also very aware of the debate that's...
01:03:06.206 --> 01:03:15.654
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same right over your church, and it's like, man, I think more than anything else Steve, it's like I have just felt the need from the Lord to just be okay being very misunderstood.
01:03:16.254 --> 01:03:23.661
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think just culturally we're in a work in a season to where it's like, if that's where you draw the line, you are a cellbell.
01:03:24.581 --> 01:03:30.927
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what you are, and I think I'm just going to have to be okay with being labeled that last sound and moving down the road and trying to be faithful and
01:03:32.279 --> 01:03:36.942
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, where I think the Lord is what he's going to city, so yeah, but I empathize with that.
01:03:37.102 --> 01:03:49.290
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I'm wondering, and this kind of kind of coming from Sam's Yamah talk, rather than just hold the line and women can flourish and all these other.
01:03:51.132 --> 01:03:58.402
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you model for us how you explain the beauty of what's on the other side of that line that you choose?
01:03:58.422 --> 01:04:00.404
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
01:04:00.664 --> 01:04:07.734
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's the beauty is in the story that it tells about the triangle.
01:04:09.055 --> 01:04:37.347
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's how that, the, the way, the leading way we've talked about it and framed it for our people has been to take them to those key moments where God is defining the terms for men and women, of the creation of men and women, we're looking at the plurality and the unity of God and, and it's so clear like if we're made and God's image, it could have made, if, if, to be made and God's image is like God's making a self-portrait, but God didn't make one self-portrait, he made two.
01:04:38.127 --> 01:04:38.387
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:04:38.567 --> 01:04:51.810
[SPEAKER_04]: And so he in the making of us as distinct sex as he is actually communicating something about his nature that we are meant to embrace and celebrate and how we interact with each other.
01:04:51.910 --> 01:04:56.651
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's been so fun quite honestly to cast that vision for our people because I think it
01:05:02.701 --> 01:05:07.302
[SPEAKER_04]: non-essential reasons that this matters into the grandest reason.
01:05:08.142 --> 01:05:21.145
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's my favorite way to talk about it because when you connect like the roles, men and women play toward each other in, say, marriage or in the local church, and you help them see it actually adorns the triumph God.
01:05:21.866 --> 01:05:27.527
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I feel like our people have such a better appetite to go like, yeah, I'll eat that meal.
01:05:28.327 --> 01:05:33.191
[SPEAKER_04]: because I love my God and I want to say that and set of squabbling about these things.
01:05:33.592 --> 01:05:38.236
[SPEAKER_04]: So we've tried to keep it very grand in what it's accomplishing.
01:05:38.796 --> 01:05:40.838
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's been helpful for our folks.
01:05:41.220 --> 01:05:44.021
[SPEAKER_08]: We've experienced a lot of healing just talking to women on our side.
01:05:44.081 --> 01:05:51.883
[SPEAKER_08]: What we've seen happen is women come in maybe to teach a clip or some moment where they're needing to do a thing.
01:05:52.043 --> 01:06:01.105
[SPEAKER_08]: And they might come in usually two days, fist up, right if I, or they've been pushed down very much, even in abusive ways in their scare, then I even know where they're allowed to talk.
01:06:01.125 --> 01:06:02.265
[SPEAKER_08]: And we've seen both women.
01:06:03.285 --> 01:06:10.229
[SPEAKER_08]: The ones with their fists have been disarmed by the humility and the care and the intentionality of our elders saying, Hey, we're with you.
01:06:10.289 --> 01:06:10.849
[SPEAKER_08]: We're for you.
01:06:10.889 --> 01:06:11.549
[SPEAKER_08]: What do you want to do?
01:06:11.589 --> 01:06:13.170
[SPEAKER_08]: And they're like, I was ready to fight you.
01:06:13.310 --> 01:06:13.710
[SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
01:06:15.791 --> 01:06:19.993
[SPEAKER_08]: And then they're like, you know, it's like, I, they have not experienced that kind of leadership.
01:06:20.113 --> 01:06:21.414
[SPEAKER_08]: And then when that happens,
01:06:22.114 --> 01:06:23.575
[SPEAKER_08]: So much of that gets disarmed.
01:06:23.595 --> 01:06:27.977
[SPEAKER_08]: A lot of the wounding that happened, you know, obviously before that moment, a lot of that gets healed.
01:06:28.317 --> 01:06:29.558
[SPEAKER_08]: There's healing that happens.
01:06:29.598 --> 01:06:42.285
[SPEAKER_08]: When they see that kind of leadership, and then women who have been in terrible situations where they have been barred from all disciple making, that somehow Matthew 28 does not refer to women also making disciples.
01:06:42.825 --> 01:06:47.007
[SPEAKER_08]: They are being given a chance and they are like, I get to be in the thing I was doing.
01:06:47.348 --> 01:06:48.068
[SPEAKER_08]: And they're thrilled.
01:06:48.448 --> 01:07:10.082
[SPEAKER_08]: they're thrilled they're going and sharing the gospel of friends and those friends are getting baptized and they're doing Bible studies in their houses they're they're they're doing the work of the ministry so there's healing that's been happening there's um there's uh the he's just lifting up these low places what we've been thought they didn't have permission they're being given permission and they're living out the great commission that's what's happening in our church you
01:07:10.442 --> 01:07:11.263
[SPEAKER_08]: people are being healed.
01:07:11.363 --> 01:07:14.204
[SPEAKER_08]: Women are appreciating the leadership of men and our supporting women.
01:07:14.584 --> 01:07:20.168
[SPEAKER_08]: We're feeling the teamwork of Brotherhood and Sisterhood together, putting the kingdom out in Medlothian.
01:07:20.328 --> 01:07:22.109
[SPEAKER_08]: Like, it's happening as a team.
01:07:22.229 --> 01:07:26.971
[SPEAKER_08]: And so, I mean, the animosity of men and women is Genesis 3.
01:07:28.392 --> 01:07:31.014
[SPEAKER_08]: One is going to dominate and one is going to try and you serve.
01:07:31.754 --> 01:07:39.164
[SPEAKER_08]: and what else preaches the gospel other than to opposite beings looking at each other and saying what can I do for you?
01:07:40.025 --> 01:07:40.746
[SPEAKER_08]: What can I do for you?
01:07:41.146 --> 01:07:42.969
[SPEAKER_08]: So that's how we're experiencing it.
01:07:43.730 --> 01:07:47.335
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we should probably wrap up when we wrap up in like in a four minute moment here.
01:07:48.075 --> 01:07:49.576
[SPEAKER_00]: by giving you a couple of encouragement.
01:07:49.616 --> 01:07:51.637
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is just some places to start.
01:07:51.677 --> 01:07:55.839
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to go real quick on our side and then we'll just toss it to you guys to finish it up.
01:07:55.899 --> 01:07:58.200
[SPEAKER_00]: So one is that quote by Jen Wolk.
01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:00.421
[SPEAKER_00]: I think every pastor just ought to think about that for a bit.
01:08:00.941 --> 01:08:06.623
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to encourage you to have some awareness of that's probably an issue with ladies and our church that we need to start thinking about.
01:08:07.284 --> 01:08:09.205
[SPEAKER_00]: Secondly, it's just a start small, pass the world.
01:08:09.385 --> 01:08:15.227
[SPEAKER_00]: So that probably means get the ladies you trust the most in your church, get them around the table, and start that conversation, then let me let you guys see
01:08:16.988 --> 01:08:17.929
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, women in the room.
01:08:18.449 --> 01:08:19.750
[SPEAKER_03]: Just keep watch over your heart.
01:08:20.851 --> 01:08:23.953
[SPEAKER_03]: If there's bitterness there, deal with it with the Lord.
01:08:25.074 --> 01:08:28.656
[SPEAKER_03]: If there's hurt there, bring that to him and stay humble.
01:08:28.777 --> 01:08:31.058
[SPEAKER_03]: Love Jesus more than you love a thriving women's ministry.
01:08:31.839 --> 01:08:33.040
[SPEAKER_03]: And hey, make it.
01:08:36.008 --> 01:08:39.790
[SPEAKER_03]: And then just be faithful where you are.
01:08:40.131 --> 01:08:43.093
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't let it stop you from doing the work of ministry right in front of you.
01:08:43.173 --> 01:08:44.353
[SPEAKER_03]: Our promise you got is put.
01:08:44.794 --> 01:08:47.395
[SPEAKER_03]: A few women right in front of your nose that are eager to be disabled.
01:08:47.535 --> 01:08:47.696
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:08:47.716 --> 01:08:48.876
[SPEAKER_03]: Just go start doing it.
01:08:49.317 --> 01:08:51.978
[SPEAKER_03]: And then know where you are conventionally in complementaryism.
01:08:52.118 --> 01:08:54.780
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you don't even know what the conversation is, and come talk to us.
01:08:54.800 --> 01:08:57.262
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll give you some bookstreet or articles to read to think about that.
01:08:57.322 --> 01:09:00.584
[SPEAKER_03]: Places to go in the word, but don't let your experience to find your theology.
01:09:01.064 --> 01:09:02.185
[SPEAKER_03]: Let it come from the scriptures.
01:09:02.405 --> 01:09:02.545
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:09:02.625 --> 01:09:04.368
[SPEAKER_03]: So know where you are and then know where your church is.
01:09:04.388 --> 01:09:07.051
[SPEAKER_03]: If you've never looked into that, that's a great starting point.
01:09:07.592 --> 01:09:08.634
[SPEAKER_03]: And then have a conversation.
01:09:08.654 --> 01:09:09.575
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we've been saying.
01:09:10.076 --> 01:09:17.005
[SPEAKER_03]: You can start that conversation with a curious humble posture with your pastors, but come with curiosity about what they are, where they are, not accusation.
01:09:17.666 --> 01:09:22.953
[SPEAKER_03]: come with solutions and willingness, imagination of what it could look like, and come with that attitude of how can I help you?
01:09:22.973 --> 01:09:23.413
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:09:23.754 --> 01:09:25.015
[SPEAKER_03]: How can I help here?
01:09:25.796 --> 01:09:27.679
[SPEAKER_03]: And then if you really are like, give me more.
01:09:28.219 --> 01:09:36.910
[SPEAKER_03]: Come to our next breakout, because we are going to give you a lot of more tools in your tool belt to walk this out wherever you are, however small or big your church is.
01:09:36.930 --> 01:09:37.151
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
01:09:37.591 --> 01:09:38.731
[SPEAKER_00]: Can not reinforce nor will we?
01:09:39.291 --> 01:09:40.132
[SPEAKER_00]: Father, we love you.
01:09:40.212 --> 01:09:41.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for the last hour.
01:09:41.952 --> 01:09:45.373
[SPEAKER_00]: What I pray has been helpful for the minimum women in this room.
01:09:45.413 --> 01:09:46.733
[SPEAKER_00]: And Lord, we pray you produce fruit from it.
01:09:47.233 --> 01:09:50.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Lord, that you would help us see areas in our church.
01:09:50.514 --> 01:09:53.055
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we've been blind to issues in our church.
01:09:53.095 --> 01:09:54.375
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just haven't seen in the past.
01:09:54.415 --> 01:10:00.357
[SPEAKER_00]: And I pray you would give us vision and imagination for how you might want us to step into those spaces.
01:10:00.417 --> 01:10:03.037
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, Lord, would you do all that and send your good name?
01:10:03.357 --> 01:10:04.118
[SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
01:10:04.338 --> 01:10:04.838
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, guys.
01:10:04.878 --> 01:10:05.038
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
01:10:08.207 --> 01:10:08.967
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening.
01:10:09.547 --> 01:10:16.310
[SPEAKER_03]: We believe God has given pastors to be responsible for the theological formation of those in their care, including their women.
01:10:17.090 --> 01:10:22.652
[SPEAKER_03]: There's been such great fruit at our church because our pastors chose to invest in the development of women teachers.
01:10:23.292 --> 01:10:25.273
[SPEAKER_03]: We hope you'll consider doing the same in your church.
01:10:25.813 --> 01:10:33.117
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why we created TeachAquip to provide a pathway for churches to equip lay-level women to teach the Bible to other women.
01:10:33.877 --> 01:10:39.160
[SPEAKER_03]: It's always better to know and trust the voices speaking into the lives of those at your church.
01:10:40.041 --> 01:10:46.144
[SPEAKER_03]: To find out more about how TeachAquip can help you, visit TeachAquip.com-slash-churches.
01:10:46.564 --> 01:10:49.766
[SPEAKER_03]: That's TeachAquip.com-slash-churches.