1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:05,680
We often don't have the opportunity to hear
directly from students about inclusive teaching
2
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:11,160
practices. In this episode we explore how
student perceptions of inclusive teaching
3
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:23,120
practices align with the growing consensus
on what constitutes inclusive teaching.
4
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,960
Thanks for joining us for Tea for Teaching, an
informal discussion of innovative and effective
5
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,640
practices in teaching and learning.
This podcast series is hosted
6
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,400
by John Kane , an economist...
...and Rebecca Mushtare, a graphic designer...
7
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,480
...and features guests doing important research
and advocacy work to make higher education more
8
00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:56,720
inclusive and supportive of all learners.
Our guests today are: Tracie Addy, Derek Dube,
9
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,920
and Khadijah A. Mitchell. After serving as
the Associate Dean of Teaching and Learning
10
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,200
at Lafayette College, Tracie will be transitioning
to a new role this summer as the director of the
11
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:11,920
Institute for Teaching, Learning, and Inclusive
Pedagogy at Rutgers University - New Brunswick.
12
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:18,040
Derek Dube is an Associate Professor of Biology
and the Director of the First-Year Seminar Program
13
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,320
at the University of St. Joseph in Connecticut.
Khadijah A. Mitchell is an Assistant Professor in
14
00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:29,400
the Cancer Prevention and Control Program at the
Fox Chase Cancer Center in the Temple University
15
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:35,560
Health System and Affiliated Faculty in the
Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at
16
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:41,240
the Temple University College of Public Health.
Welcome back Tracie, Derek, and Khadijah.
17
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,160
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
18
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,920
Thank you so much.
Today's teas are:... Tracie,
19
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,000
are you drinking tea today?
I am drinking tea. And I love
20
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,120
that I'm drinking it from my Tea for Teaching
mug that John gave me at the POD conference in
21
00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,280
November. And the tea that I'm drinking is
just a simple kind of peppermint tea.
22
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,200
Sounds wonderful, and in the best mug
possible. How about you, Derek?
23
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,680
I'm just drinking water. But I would also like
to shout out to my mug, which is actually a mug
24
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:17,720
that I recently received from an instructor in my
first-year seminar program here where the second
25
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,160
semester of our first-year seminar program is a
service-based learning course. And this mural that
26
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:29,120
you see on the mug, and also behind me today,
is one that their class created as a means to,
27
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,680
as it says, inspire and engage and unite the
globe around topics of digital and media literacy
28
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,040
and things like that. So shout out to the mug,
more so than the beverage within the mug.
29
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,720
It's a very impressive mug
and image behind you.
30
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,120
And something good to drink to, for
sure. How about you, Khadija?
31
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,400
So, I am drinking organic spearmint tea,
32
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,680
and my mug has my name on it and
in the spirit of inclusivity,
33
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,520
this is probably the first thing I've ever
had with my name on it. When I go on vacation,
34
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,320
I never get a keychain. So I'm very excited
to drink the spearmint tea out of this mug.
35
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,680
I love a special mug. John and I
don't really have special mug.
36
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,120
Well, I do…
Oh you, do. Right.
37
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,920
…from the SUNY Oswego School of Ed,
because we moved to a new recording room
38
00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:15,880
that they've loaned to us after we lost
our other one. And along with the room,
39
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,840
we got a tea mug, a nice insulated one.
And what kind of tea are you drinking?
40
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:25,320
In line with what we've just heard, I am
drinking a peppermint spearmint blend today.
41
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,480
I missed the mint protocol
today, unfortunately.
42
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,200
You didn’t check the calendar?
I didn't. I'm sorry. But I have a
43
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,960
nice Jasmine black tea this morning,
which feels nice and springy.
44
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,640
We've invited you here today to discuss your
new book: Enhancing Inclusive Instruction:
45
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,920
Student Perspectives and Practical Approaches
for Advancing Equity in Higher Education. Your
46
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:52,240
previous book, What Inclusive Instructors Do, was
the basis of a very well received faculty reading
47
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:59,040
group that we ran at SUNY Oswego, in collaboration
with Jessamyn Neuhaus at SUNY Plattsburgh. So this
48
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:04,520
book is a superb follow up. Could you tell us
a little bit about the origin of this new book
49
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:10,840
and how it connects to your earlier work?
Absolutely, John, pleasure to do so. So when
50
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,960
we think about inclusive teaching, and when
I think about it, I would say in general,
51
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:22,080
we know that instructors started at different
points in their journeys. And when we wrote What
52
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:28,040
Inclusive Instructors Do, we really knew that it
will be really helpful just to have the voices of
53
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,840
instructors who do that work, and their thinking
about how they think about it, their mindsets,
54
00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:38,440
their values, etc. But also kind of distill it
into some principles and practices that were very
55
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:44,560
practical, because we know that that speaks well
to instructors, but also that would allow them to
56
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:50,360
reflect on their teaching. So after What Inclusive
Instructors Do, we knew that instructors aren't
57
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:56,320
the only voice, right? So we also knew that how
important it was to really get students involved
58
00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,920
and students seeing the benefits of inclusive
instruction, how did they experience these spaces
59
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,360
in terms of their sense of belonging, welcoming
environment, the feelings that it's equitable or
60
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:15,720
fair as well. So that kind of elicited our next
step to really do a study on students and to find
61
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,880
their perspectives. And a couple of things that
we were able to do with this study, which I think
62
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:27,080
is really helpful and useful for anybody, whether
they've read What Inclusive Instructors Do or not,
63
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,880
is we were also able to identify and ask students
aspects according to what are the pitfalls? What
64
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,680
have you seen not be inclusive? So that emerges
kind of more strongly also in this book than the
65
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,280
first book, for example. So we were able to
really capture their experiences and these
66
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:48,560
are students from a variety of institution types.
They're coming from a variety of classes they've
67
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,360
been taking, various identity backgrounds, etc.
So it really feels like now we're talking about
68
00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,760
students like students , it's their voice in
this book. So Enhancing Inclusive Instruction,
69
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:07,360
basically is just that, so that we can have
a more comprehensive picture understanding
70
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,880
of an inclusive classroom. What does it mean to
students? What does it look like for instructors?
71
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,880
And the beauty of it, and this is something that
I've been speaking about a lot is, how are these
72
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,240
alignments? What are the alignments between these
two perspectives? What are the differences between
73
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:27,640
these two perspectives? And how can we use
this wider body of knowledge by having these
74
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:34,000
viewpoints to really inform our practices in
what we do in the classroom. So in general,
75
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,880
both books, you can read both, you could read
one, either/or, but they really were meant to
76
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:45,120
really support inclusive instruction, no matter
where an instructor is in your journey.
77
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,120
As a user experience designer and
interaction designer, I really love
78
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,680
the very student-centered or audience-centered
nature of this book, and really bringing those
79
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,360
voices to the forefront. Could you tell us
a little bit about how you found the student
80
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:04,840
participants to participate in your project.
So much like we set out with the goal of hoping
81
00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:10,720
that our teaching is as inclusive as possible,
we also wanted that to be the case for our study,
82
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,960
and our recruitment in the voices that we were
hearing back from. So we made extensive efforts
83
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:22,200
to have as broad a population be able to give us
feedback, to participate in our surveys and our
84
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:27,000
interviews. And that's an important part, there
were opportunities for our student respondents to
85
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,520
reply via survey or via a virtual interview where
they could potentially even go further and have
86
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,680
deeper conversations around some of the topics
if they wanted as well. So in order to recruit,
87
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:44,480
after many collaborative meetings between myself
and Tracie and Khadija, we came up with a broad
88
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,720
spending plan to recruit students through using
connections that we had, various educational
89
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:56,840
listservs like POD, social media. We directly
communicated with various institutions across
90
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,640
the country, their teaching and learning center
specifically, but also faculty that we knew that
91
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,640
were invested in this type of work. And this
included institutions at the community college
92
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:13,000
level and research intensive institutions, liberal
arts, HBCUs, colleges for students who learn
93
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,880
differently, and basically any type of college
you can think of. We also did lean on and take
94
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:25,200
advantage of an opportunity to leverage technology
through cloud research, to expand our reach as
95
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:32,080
well. And through all of this, we did end up with
well over 300 responses from various students when
96
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,520
looked at geographically or institutionally
that were very diverse. And we felt good with
97
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,000
that as a basis for which to move forward.
One of the things we really appreciated when
98
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,480
we were running the reading group was the
reflection questions you had embedded in
99
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,200
what inclusive instructors do. And this
book also contains reflection questions
100
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,720
spread throughout each of the chapters. While
most teaching centers do encourage faculty to
101
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,840
engage in reflective practice, it's nice to see
that embedded in the books that they're reading.
102
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,400
But might this be even more effective when
faculty are reflecting on the student voices
103
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:10,400
that make up so much of the focus of this book?
Right, so one of the things that stood out to us,
104
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,400
when we did survey the inclusive instructors,
there was a particular quote saying that inclusive
105
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:22,360
teaching is a perpetual work in progress, informed
by research, dialogue, and reflection. And when we
106
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:28,800
think about that, in the context of incorporating
student voice, it's a perfect example of this. So
107
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,320
when we think about research, actually collecting
data from our students thoughout our courses,
108
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:39,440
and I mean that as a community of inclusive
instructors, and really fostering dialogue, and
109
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,280
to be honest, what we found from what students say
it is, that dialogue means we have to be willing
110
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:50,280
to share and discuss and actually negotiate the
space in our classrooms. And when we think about
111
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:56,200
reflection, thinking that there's no one set of
practices for every inclusive instructor that we
112
00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:01,720
can act, and we're not superheroes. So you can't
do all things, but you can do what you can to be
113
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,640
responsive to your learners’ needs at the same
time. So with that being said, when we came up
114
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,240
with these reflection questions, and actually
thinking about one of those quotes from the
115
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:17,880
instructor, we saw that there were some mirroring
with the first book in terms of course design, and
116
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,800
creating a welcoming environment and conducting
the course. But really, we saw that there were
117
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,760
these 13 key themes, and that, although sometimes
they reflected what we saw in the first book,
118
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,120
we actually saw new themes emerge. So we really
wanted to write reflection questions that captured
119
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:39,680
that, that would help you delve deeper in thinking
about the student perspective. And I think to echo
120
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:45,880
something that Tracie mentioned, we really thought
about potential pitfalls with these questions that
121
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,960
we wouldn't have thought if we didn't speak with
the students from their perspective to basically
122
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:58,440
avoid certain types of things that may not have
been the best for course design or maybe didn't
123
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:04,520
make everyone feel welcome, or when conducting
the course. So that was very encouraging,
124
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,520
the way that we could tailor these reflection
questions based on what the students said.
125
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:14,240
And I love that so much. One of the tools that
you developed and described in the book is
126
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,360
the Protocol for Advancing Inclusive
Teaching Efforts, or PAITE. Can you
127
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:23,440
describe this instrument for our listeners?
Sure. So the Protocol for Advancing Inclusive
128
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:29,480
Teaching Efforts is a classroom observation
protocol that enables instructors, in a formative
129
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:36,120
way, low stakes, to obtain feedback on 15 specific
instructional behaviors that are considered
130
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:41,440
inclusive, equitable types of behaviors. And this
protocol actually emerged from my work. And it's
131
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,480
a lot of what I've been doing in my own work is
really thinking about tools that can support our
132
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:52,160
instructors in building more inclusive classrooms.
And so this PAITE actually originated from that.
133
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:59,480
And we co-created it with students. So the student
partners that work on a lot of the inclusivity
134
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:04,760
efforts that I've done at my institution,
basically supported this work and helped
135
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,680
us measure reliability, et cetera. They were
like, you know, the researchers, they helped us
136
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:13,440
think about and devise it. So this particular
protocol, I think, has been pretty impactful.
137
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:20,040
We've done hundreds of observations with it at the
institution that I was previously at. And thinking
138
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:25,360
about all the debriefings, and all the feedback,
it really supported instructors in thinking about
139
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,360
their inclusive teaching practices. In fact, I
like to share some of the responses that I've seen
140
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:35,960
or heard them have around it. Some of them and
even some of the student partners will actually,
141
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,120
in future classes, they'll say, “Am I doing this?”
“Am I doing that?” They’ll actually reflect on
142
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:45,680
the codes that are embedded within this protocol
and continue to think about their practice. And
143
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:50,040
that's actually a very positive outcome of this.
If they're actually putting it in their awareness,
144
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,600
awareness is critical for knowing are we actually
doing these things that we say or hope we are
145
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,840
doing in the classroom, and that has actually
helped them really think about their teaching
146
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,960
differently. And then some of the students said
that actually, when they go to their own classes,
147
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,960
they'll start to think about the codes,
because they're so immersed in actually
148
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,880
doing a protocol or conducting it with their
partners as well. So that has been really
149
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:19,640
great to see. And so we included it in the
actual book, it has like a separate methods
150
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:25,400
kind of paper, or how we developed it. But in the
book, it really talks about how it can be used,
151
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,920
and how it aligns a lot of the behaviors, and I’m
actually doing a lot of this interesting mapping,
152
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,280
align with what the perspectives of the students
are, and also our instructors in What Inclusive
153
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:43,520
Instructors Do. So it provides a really beautiful
way to think about your teaching and monitor your
154
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,760
approaches, reflect on your teaching, by actually
having that data from your actual classroom.
155
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,720
And I think it's just really been helpful.
We've embedded it in a variety of different
156
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,040
academies and institutes, and different
programming at my previous institution.
157
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:04,600
So you mentioned the themes that have
arisen from the student interviews.
158
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:12,920
Could you talk a bit about those themes?
Sure. So we saw 13 themes. And interestingly,
159
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:19,480
seven of them centered on inclusive course design.
So I'll elaborate on the two that were the most
160
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,480
prominent. We were really interested and surprised
to see that maximizing student engagement from the
161
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,880
first assignment and throughout the course. So
the student has highlighted the importance of
162
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:35,080
that first assignment, and several of them,
they really believed that it helped them
163
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:42,440
have a high degree of engagement. But also it was
important that it required little content mastery,
164
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:48,760
and built upon their existing knowledge. And there
was a lot of positive feedback from successfully
165
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:54,120
completing that first assignment. Students
referred to short-term as well as long-term
166
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,480
positive emotions from that first assignment.
So that was really interesting. And group
167
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:05,360
work… we often think about group work in higher
education as a seminal active learning strategy,
168
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,120
different learning teamwork, and things like
that. So a lot of the students also echoed that,
169
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,800
that it maximized the engagement. But what
we saw them speak about was the pitfalls
170
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,120
from their perspective with the group work,
but in particular, those students that were
171
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:27,200
neurodivergent and had disabilities. And so some
students along with autism spectrum disorder,
172
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,640
and also attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
mentioned that, in that particular context,
173
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:39,320
they didn't feel most engaged with that. Student
choice was very prominent. We talked a lot about:
174
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,800
flexible deadlines were really important,
individual student preferences on assignments
175
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,440
and exams and accessibility needs and I think many
of us are going to talk a lot about mental health
176
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:55,560
and student well being. So that was very clear
there. So those two were some of the key things,
177
00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,280
but also, including course policies
that respectfully consider student time,
178
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:07,280
structures that are easily followed and designed
for student success. And students really wanted to
179
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:14,160
encourage feedback on the instructions, diversity
of materials, and finally, accounting for the type
180
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:20,040
of course delivery. So I think in a post-COVID19
world, they talked about the importance
181
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,200
of in person and hybrid and online themes. So that
was the last theme that we saw in that regard.
182
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,120
When you quote students, you include references
to their identities. And when faculty first
183
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,600
start teaching, they sometimes assume that
students in their classes are maybe just as
184
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,200
they were as a student, but the mention of
the diverse student identities in the book,
185
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,080
hopefully help remind faculty about the diversity
of their students, and may also help encourage
186
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:51,600
faculty to use a version of the “Who's in class
form.” Can you talk a little bit about that?
187
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,280
So with Inclusive teaching, I think identity is
a key word to be keeping in mind, this concept
188
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,720
of identity, this concept that everybody that
enters the classroom has their own unique identity
189
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:08,960
that brings with it a wealth of assets, but also
potentially some personal bias. And this goes for
190
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,760
the instructor just as much as the students if not
more, and with the role the instructor is playing,
191
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,600
it might be most important there to acknowledge
it. So why we include the identity information
192
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,600
that our student respondents shared willingly
within their surveys was to that reason,
193
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,840
for some of our faculty, for our readers,
for our instructors, to acknowledge that
194
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:36,240
the students that are responding are not identical
to us when we were students, or us as we are now.
195
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,960
But also beyond that, to acknowledge that no two
students are the same. And we're seeing different
196
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:47,080
identities across these student respondents.
And with all of this in mind that even the idea
197
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,920
of teaching to the average student, well,
there is no average student really, and
198
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:57,120
that creates significant issues, to the idea of
inclusive teaching. So for all of these reasons,
199
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:02,560
we did think it was really important to include
those identity aspects of the quoted students that
200
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:08,920
was shared. We think this helps frame the quote,
with some context, some important context, and
201
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:15,040
hopefully also makes the quote more real for our
readers. This came from somebody, a real person,
202
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:21,160
a real student. So I do think, to your point about
the “who's in class form,” and things like that,
203
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:27,360
that once we as instructors recognize and are
aware of the diversity in our student populations,
204
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:33,800
it becomes much more clear that getting to know
our students is critical to teaching inclusively,
205
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,680
and to including them in the learning process. So
you mentioned the who's in class form, which was
206
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,480
part of the first book, and that's certainly one
way to do it that we've had a lot of success with.
207
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,640
I've personally used it for years now in every
class that I've taught since its development, and
208
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,480
had just great personal experience and positive
feedback from the students. There was a study that
209
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,760
was published that showed student perception
and instructor perception also very positive
210
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,640
for the who's in class form. So it's a tool that
we share, because we want it to be available for
211
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,520
instructors to use, they don't need to reinvent
the wheel in this situation. It's a great way
212
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,480
to start from the very beginning from the first
day like Khadija was mentioning with that first
213
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,520
assignment being important… also, that first day,
that first interaction, that first relationship
214
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,200
building step to be one where it says, “I want
to get to know you because you matter in this
215
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,120
classroom.” So that's one tool that we offer
up to our readers and want them to be aware of,
216
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,040
but there are other ways to do it as well. And
I think that it's important for instructors to
217
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,000
think critically about their classrooms
and their institutions and their contexts
218
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,240
and determine what works best for them within
their class to get to know their students.
219
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,400
You mentioned the importance of the context for
instructors. And one of your chapters in the book
220
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,440
focuses on providing advice for historically
excluded instructors and their allies,
221
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,360
because faculty are often in a very different
context in terms of how students perceive them
222
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,440
and how students perceive their identities. Could
you talk a little bit about some of the things
223
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,400
that you emphasize in this chapter?
Yes, perfect segue. So in this chapter,
224
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:10,600
we really wanted to emphasize that we see you,
we hear you, like understanding instructors
225
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,440
from historically excluded backgrounds can
have different experiences in the classroom,
226
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:20,720
as you mentioned, John, a bit, but also to give
some advice and encouragement and support for how
227
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:26,080
to still do this work because we know that a lot
of instructors even from historically excluded
228
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,160
backgrounds, in even my experiences and me being
one , we know that there's a lot of investment
229
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,800
in this. There's a lot of investment and then the
importance of this. So some of the advice we give
230
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:43,760
is general advice. What we know that students
really appreciate in general and then also some
231
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,720
really concrete advice to really support them in
having the evidence that they are teaching well.
232
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,800
So the first thing to really think about and we
talk about in this section is just care, like,
233
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,440
how do we demonstrate care for our students,
and regardless of whatever identities,
234
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,680
care is critical. We also talk a little bit about
other types of strategies. Some of them may or
235
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,000
may not resonate with folks, again, all of the
stuff we give as options to really think about,
236
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,960
to experiment with, to practice with, to really
think about what makes sense for you. So we give
237
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:20,680
a couple of examples from people who've actually
been doing this work as well. So things that have
238
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,880
been published around storytelling, thinking about
your story and who you are, what you choose to
239
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,600
share with your students. And you might withhold
some things, you might share some other things,
240
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,200
and there's good reasons for that, depending
on your identity as well. We also talk a little
241
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,400
bit about engaging your allies and advocates,
because you really want to have people in your
242
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:45,280
departments, and at your institution, who really
value and can speak highly of your teaching,
243
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,000
they know that you're doing a good job, and
they can advocate for that. So engaging them
244
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,960
in various ways is important. We have these
great tools we talk about, the PAITE, etc. So
245
00:21:53,960 --> 00:22:00,480
being able to actually have data that actually
shows that you are doing things that align with
246
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,160
what the research and evidence says can support
students and their success in the classroom. So
247
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,720
collecting that information, and just making
sure you have it when you need it. And just
248
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:17,520
for your own practice is also really critical,
I think, for instructors, in this way, too. So
249
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,440
those are just a few of many types of guidance
that we do give in this section. I think it's
250
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:28,240
really important to consider what makes the most
sense. I will say, in working with instructors,
251
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:34,240
and also thinking about myself as a black woman
teaching as well, it's so contextual. It's just
252
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,040
like you can't say that this will happen in this
course, or this or that with this instructor.
253
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,480
But we know that there's a lot of variation that
can happen. And I think a lot of these different
254
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:49,080
guidance points can really help equip people to
really think about what makes sense for them in
255
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:54,120
terms of how they engage with Inclusive teaching
practice. And the last thing I'll share is that
256
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:58,800
even in What Inclusive Instructors Do, if we
break down and disaggregate the instructors
257
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,400
a bit, we see a lot of instructors successfully
talking about doing this work from historically
258
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:11,280
excluded backgrounds. And so we know like it's
happening, we do it in our classes, as well. So
259
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,960
this is not being meant to be like discouraging
at all, but a very encouraging chapter. And
260
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:22,480
just having some tools and equipment to kind of
continue so that you also can be seen that way at
261
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:29,400
your institution and you have that information.
I love these themes of reflection and data and
262
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,720
being able to tell your story of who you are as
a teacher and why you're doing these inclusive
263
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:39,080
practices and that there's evidence that it's
working and supporting your students. Chapter
264
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,960
10 of your book focuses on a topic that we've
certainly talked about a bit on this podcast,
265
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:50,160
and it's all over the news and conversations
in higher ed, which is AI and instructional
266
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:55,320
practices. Can you talk a little bit about
some of the ways in which generative AI can
267
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,080
support an equitable learning environment?
I think it's a really important topic right
268
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,440
now. And on the ground, what I hear most commonly
instructors talking about, and faculty talking
269
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:12,120
about are the challenges that AI presents us
around commonly topics like academic integrity,
270
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:19,000
like, “Oh, here's my assignment, my students are
just going to go to [insert AI platform here] and
271
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,360
complete that assignment and then submit it. And
it's hard for me… the tools for understanding if
272
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:27,920
that occurred or not, can be challenging still at
this point.” But I think what our chapter wanted
273
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:34,600
to do more than focus on those challenges is kind
of flip the table on that and focus on what are
274
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,360
the potential benefits, like you mentioned, to
increasing equity in the classroom and inclusivity
275
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,800
in the classroom? And they are manifold, when
you take the time to actually look at it and
276
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,360
think about it. And I think the chapter goes over
a number of examples to show how this can be done.
277
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:56,520
In terms of benefits that we see AI being able to
be leveraged with in the classroom, incorporating
278
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,040
and developing more efficient learning experiences
is certainly one of them. It can kind of balance
279
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,120
prior knowledge gaps that students come with to
the classroom by being a tool which can be used
280
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:15,200
for brainstorming and ideation and things along
that line, so that maybe a student can go to a
281
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:22,480
platform with a particular question or broad topic
and use that platform as a tool to help kind of
282
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,360
narrow down something that they want to explore
more deeply, get some ideas that maybe they
283
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,040
didn't have the knowledge that they brought with
themselves to class to come up with that idea on
284
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,160
their own, but now they can get there, and it can
kind of even up that playing field a little bit.
285
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:40,320
There's also additional benefits to multilingual
learners in terms of helping learn the language
286
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,480
that their course is being taught in, writing more
fluently and efficiently, and better understanding
287
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,480
written material that's present. It can help
personalize learning in a really equitable
288
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,200
way. There's a portion of the chapter that
speaks to the idea of using AI as an additional
289
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,160
support for overcoming kind of the muddiest
points in a classroom. So if an instructor is
290
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,560
either directly asking students what is the most
challenging topic, what is the muddiest point,
291
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:12,520
those points could then be used and imported into
an AI platform to help navigate those situations,
292
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,000
or it could just be pointed as a tool that
students could use on their own when they come
293
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,000
up with their muddiest point and when they find a
topic that's challenging for them. Now, of course,
294
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,720
all of this has to go within the concept of how
reputable is the response that we're getting,
295
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:33,640
how trustworthy is the output of these different
platforms. But that also actually leads into what
296
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:39,400
a really potentially beneficial assignment tool
would be with this, which is the idea of using
297
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,120
these platforms, seeing what their responses are,
and then having the students kind of fact check
298
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:50,640
and revise and edit and think critically about
those responses. And there's an assignment there
299
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:56,040
where students can essentially take a prompt,
import it into an AI platform, see what they
300
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,880
get back, and then the assignment is actually go
through this, revise this, edit it, fact-check it:
301
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,080
“What would you change?” And that can be a really
great way to enhance the critical thinking and
302
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,840
evaluation aspects that we're really trying
to build in a lot of our students with, again,
303
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:17,480
narrowing and balancing what's needed for kind of
background knowledge coming in. So there's these
304
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,760
and many other mechanisms that are talked about
in the chapter, including ones for, as instructors
305
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,240
it can be a tool to brainstorm ideas for: “What
are the most inclusive ways I can teach on this
306
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,040
topic? Give me a list of 10 of these?” And then
the instructor can look through that list and say,
307
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,160
“Hey, which one of these might work best for my
class context? And how can I adapt that to work
308
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,760
for me?” So there's lots of ways in which AI can
be a really positive tool, as long as we use it
309
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:48,360
in that way, and are appreciative and recognize
the potential challenges that it also faces.
310
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:52,800
It's certainly a bit of a challenging time in
terms of professional development for faculty,
311
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,400
because as you said, so many people just say,
“this is just another tool for students to
312
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,480
cheat,” because they haven't really played with
it that must themselves, they haven't really seen
313
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,960
the potential. And I think that's something that
all teaching centers are going to have to continue
314
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,680
to work on quite a bit to help faculty become
more aware of how these tools can be used to
315
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,240
complement other forms of learning, rather than
as a substitute, which is what they're concerned
316
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,800
about. So in addition to your two books, what
are some other strategies that faculty can use to
317
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,360
help create a more inclusive environment in their
classes? I know, you've talked about some of them,
318
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:31,480
like the “Who’s in class form,” and so forth? But
what are some other ways that faculty can work to
319
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,720
become more inclusive? Or what are some of the
things faculty who have not thought about this
320
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:42,360
much should start focusing on most immediately?
That is a great question. I think, yes, we have
321
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:48,680
a ton of great resources, like books and tools
like PAITE, and our lived experience. There's
322
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,960
something that I really think this particular
study and process and talking to students that
323
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,400
really resonated with us is thinking about
nonverbal communication. Often people think
324
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,520
inclusive teaching takes so much effort,
but even thinking about your personality,
325
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:11,680
you're smiling. So for example, smiling, warm and
welcoming tone, being thoughtful about tone. For
326
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:17,640
example, students say not getting angry. So to
throw back to something that Derek mentioned,
327
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,040
is thinking about your instructor background,
and what type of strategies or the nonverbal
328
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:29,360
communication are you communicating. So that
is definitely easy if you're in person. But if
329
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:35,080
you're online, some things that I think you can
think about is the use of thumbs up, clapping,
330
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:42,120
things like that. Something that recently came up
for discussion was when you are online courses,
331
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:48,120
do you tell your students to change the tone of
the thumbs up so that everyone is reflected in
332
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,280
that space and welcome? Students have actually
responded that they feel more included in that
333
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:59,320
space with nonverbal communication. So using
emojis in emails, some students actually thought
334
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,800
that made their instructor more approachable,
but I will say, that being an instructor in 2024,
335
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,480
you have to watch that. There is a pitfall
there. Studies have shown overuse of the
336
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:17,160
emojis, induce sometimes less confidence in the
instructor. I think, being mindful of any strategy
337
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,760
that you can use to be mindful of the nonverbal
communication. But the verbal communication I'll
338
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:28,760
say, unequivocally, I keep going back to this…
the mug… it is really important to know names,
339
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:35,360
say names correctly, and to use chosen names. So
name tents can help with that, using an annotated
340
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:41,680
class roster, seating charts, photos, mnemonic
devices, student introductions, those things are
341
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:48,120
concrete. And I think the last thing I would say,
is actually telling jokes. So a lot of instructors
342
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,200
use humor in college and university classrooms.
So that tends to go over very well, there's a
343
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,560
positive effect on students in the learning
environment, and making people feel included.
344
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,120
But again, a word of caution, thinking about how
the joke can land. So it could be very powerful in
345
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,640
that way. But also wanting to be mindful if you're
going to, in fact, use that particular strategy to
346
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,760
make your students feel welcome.
Well, we always wrap up by asking:
347
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,120
“What's next?”
I'll share a little bit
348
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,480
about some of the things that I'm working
on. So with regards to my scholarship,
349
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,640
I kind of hover between teaching and learning and
also educational development in general. And so
350
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,840
a couple of things that are exciting, I think,
for the future is we're currently proposing a
351
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,960
multi-site PAITE study. And so that study will
dig deeper into the impacts of, we're hoping,
352
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,560
of the PAITE in the classroom. Since now, we've
been using it a lot, but we don't have all the
353
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,840
data from the classroom and the experiences of
students and the instructors. So we're going to be
354
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,440
doing a multi-site study in the next year or two.
So hopefully, you'll see that come out. Another
355
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,400
project that we actually just finished off, a
smaller project, we talked about group work,
356
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:02,080
students experiences with group work, and that
being a challenging area. So we implemented
357
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:09,400
an intervention this past year at my previous
institution, in collaboration with another center,
358
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,280
and several classrooms, several instructors in
their classrooms. And so we did collect some data
359
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,320
on that. We just are synthesizing it. So we're
gonna hope to write that up and also share the
360
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:24,600
resource that we use, that was an intervention
that we created that students use to help empower
361
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,560
them to really have more effective group work
experiences, more inclusive, more equitable kinds
362
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,680
of experiences. And then a couple of things I'm
working on in an educational development realm,
363
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:40,360
we just collected data from the POD community
and outside on educational development right
364
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,000
now in our times, so we can track how it changes.
So we're in the process right now, this summer,
365
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,640
of starting to write the book, which will be the
next one… it’s written like almost every 10 years
366
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,880
educational development in the age of… and we're
gonna ffill that in based on the results of the
367
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:00,320
study, and then some other educational development
things. And lastly, as was mentioned earlier,
368
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,320
I'm moving to a new institution. So I'm going to
launch a new Institute for Teaching, Learning,
369
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,480
and Inclusive Pedagogy. So that's going to be very
exciting to really think about what's next there,
370
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,400
it will be launching the first center
at Rutgers University, New Brunswick,
371
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,360
and it will have embedded within it all of this
inclusive stuff. So there's so many things to
372
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,400
bring there and to increase and expand.
Yeah, for me, I mean, I think coming out of
373
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,040
the work of this study that led to this book, I
think where I am is continuing to spread the word,
374
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,080
but then also putting it into action. And that
means personally, for me, in my own teaching,
375
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,600
taking all the things that I learned through this
process of listening to students, working with my
376
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,200
fantastic colleagues, and writing this book, and
having conversations like these, putting that into
377
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,720
action, and making sure we're walking the walk, so
to say, because that's the only way this actually
378
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,240
happens. And in my role at the University of
St. Joseph, again, I'm not only a instructor,
379
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,600
a faculty member in the biology department, but
I'm also the director of the first year seminar
380
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,600
program here at USJSJ.. a two-semester long
program. It's a true first year program, where the
381
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,240
first semester is a three-credit course that is
kind of half transitioning to college and half an
382
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:16,120
academic component where the students get to dive
into college learning. And the second semester is
383
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:21,920
a one-credit course where it's service based and
meeting the mission of our university to engage in
384
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,960
compassionate service. So as in my director role,
I am thinking a lot about how do we help students
385
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,840
transition to college in their first year?
And I think there's a lot that we can gain
386
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,800
from listening to students. And that was reported
out in this book that can be leveraged there. So
387
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,800
building in some of these ideas of really getting
to know the students, engaging in opportunities
388
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,120
for student choice within our first-year seminar
program itself as well, kind of coming out of
389
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,320
the work of this, I've created a college success
portfolio that we're implementing in the program.
390
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,360
We implemented it for the first time this past
year that ties a lot of these features in that
391
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,680
allows students to talk about right off the bat,
their first assignment is nothing to do with the
392
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,960
content, but it's the “Why are you here? Why
college? What are your goals, both in college
393
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,440
and out of college? And this is something that
the students can succeed with, right away to
394
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,000
kind of set that form and let them know that
their instructors here at the institution care
395
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,840
about them as learners, and that the learning
that they'll go through will be personalized
396
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,960
for them. So something that we're piloting here
at the University of St. Joseph trying out but
397
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,960
long term would be something that we would
hope to share out with the greater community
398
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,800
and hopefully help those first-year experiences
at institutions around the nation and globe.
399
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:39,720
Well, for me, there's one thing that really
struck me as we worked on these two projects,
400
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:46,120
was that inclusive teaching is very similar
to inclusive research mentoring. And so I do
401
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,480
a lot of research mentoring. There's a lot of
teaching strategies in dealing with different
402
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,880
types of learners in a research laboratory
setting, so I'm really interested in going
403
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,400
in the direction of thinking about how some
of these strategies and things that we learned
404
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:05,600
translate to a research mentorship context. And
also, because I'm at an institution now that has
405
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:10,840
graduate students and postdocs, really train
the next generation of inclusive instructors,
406
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:17,320
and particularly those that are in STEM spaces. So
when I'm working with a mentor to our postdoctoral
407
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:23,200
advisory committee here, and trying to get
them excited about being inclusive instructors
408
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,240
as they transition to their next phase.
We're looking forward to hearing about all the
409
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:32,760
things that you're continuing to do because you're
making an important difference in our teaching and
410
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,600
learning community. Thanks for joining us.
Thank you.
411
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,800
It's great to see all of you again
and talk to you again. And this time,
412
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,120
we shouldn't let it go quite as long as
between our last discussion and this one.
413
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,200
Thank you so much for having us
again. It's been a pleasure.
414
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,560
Yes. Thank you.
This is so fun.
415
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:57,520
Either that or you're enough to write
books faster, one or the other.
416
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,520
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please
subscribe and leave a review on iTunes
417
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,600
or your favorite podcast service.
To continue the conversation,
418
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,160
join us on our Tea for Teaching Facebook page.
You can find show notes, transcripts and other
419
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:27,520
materials on teaforteaching.com.
Music by Michael Gary Brewer.
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:05,680
We often don't have the opportunity to hear
directly from students about inclusive teaching
2
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:11,160
practices. In this episode we explore how
student perceptions of inclusive teaching
3
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:23,120
practices align with the growing consensus
on what constitutes inclusive teaching.
4
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,960
Thanks for joining us for Tea for Teaching, an
informal discussion of innovative and effective
5
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,640
practices in teaching and learning.
This podcast series is hosted
6
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,400
by John Kane , an economist...
...and Rebecca Mushtare, a graphic designer...
7
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,480
...and features guests doing important research
and advocacy work to make higher education more
8
00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:56,720
inclusive and supportive of all learners.
Our guests today are: Tracie Addy, Derek Dube,
9
00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,920
and Khadijah A. Mitchell. After serving as
the Associate Dean of Teaching and Learning
10
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,200
at Lafayette College, Tracie will be transitioning
to a new role this summer as the director of the
11
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:11,920
Institute for Teaching, Learning, and Inclusive
Pedagogy at Rutgers University - New Brunswick.
12
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:18,040
Derek Dube is an Associate Professor of Biology
and the Director of the First-Year Seminar Program
13
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,320
at the University of St. Joseph in Connecticut.
Khadijah A. Mitchell is an Assistant Professor in
14
00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:29,400
the Cancer Prevention and Control Program at the
Fox Chase Cancer Center in the Temple University
15
00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:35,560
Health System and Affiliated Faculty in the
Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at
16
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:41,240
the Temple University College of Public Health.
Welcome back Tracie, Derek, and Khadijah.
17
00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,160
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
18
00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,920
Thank you so much.
Today's teas are:... Tracie,
19
00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,000
are you drinking tea today?
I am drinking tea. And I love
20
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,120
that I'm drinking it from my Tea for Teaching
mug that John gave me at the POD conference in
21
00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,280
November. And the tea that I'm drinking is
just a simple kind of peppermint tea.
22
00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,200
Sounds wonderful, and in the best mug
possible. How about you, Derek?
23
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,680
I'm just drinking water. But I would also like
to shout out to my mug, which is actually a mug
24
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:17,720
that I recently received from an instructor in my
first-year seminar program here where the second
25
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:23,160
semester of our first-year seminar program is a
service-based learning course. And this mural that
26
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:29,120
you see on the mug, and also behind me today,
is one that their class created as a means to,
27
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:34,680
as it says, inspire and engage and unite the
globe around topics of digital and media literacy
28
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,040
and things like that. So shout out to the mug,
more so than the beverage within the mug.
29
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,720
It's a very impressive mug
and image behind you.
30
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,120
And something good to drink to, for
sure. How about you, Khadija?
31
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,400
So, I am drinking organic spearmint tea,
32
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,680
and my mug has my name on it and
in the spirit of inclusivity,
33
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,520
this is probably the first thing I've ever
had with my name on it. When I go on vacation,
34
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,320
I never get a keychain. So I'm very excited
to drink the spearmint tea out of this mug.
35
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,680
I love a special mug. John and I
don't really have special mug.
36
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,120
Well, I do…
Oh you, do. Right.
37
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,920
…from the SUNY Oswego School of Ed,
because we moved to a new recording room
38
00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:15,880
that they've loaned to us after we lost
our other one. And along with the room,
39
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,840
we got a tea mug, a nice insulated one.
And what kind of tea are you drinking?
40
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:25,320
In line with what we've just heard, I am
drinking a peppermint spearmint blend today.
41
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,480
I missed the mint protocol
today, unfortunately.
42
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,200
You didn’t check the calendar?
I didn't. I'm sorry. But I have a
43
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,960
nice Jasmine black tea this morning,
which feels nice and springy.
44
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,640
We've invited you here today to discuss your
new book: Enhancing Inclusive Instruction:
45
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,920
Student Perspectives and Practical Approaches
for Advancing Equity in Higher Education. Your
46
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:52,240
previous book, What Inclusive Instructors Do, was
the basis of a very well received faculty reading
47
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:59,040
group that we ran at SUNY Oswego, in collaboration
with Jessamyn Neuhaus at SUNY Plattsburgh. So this
48
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:04,520
book is a superb follow up. Could you tell us
a little bit about the origin of this new book
49
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:10,840
and how it connects to your earlier work?
Absolutely, John, pleasure to do so. So when
50
00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,960
we think about inclusive teaching, and when
I think about it, I would say in general,
51
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:22,080
we know that instructors started at different
points in their journeys. And when we wrote What
52
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:28,040
Inclusive Instructors Do, we really knew that it
will be really helpful just to have the voices of
53
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,840
instructors who do that work, and their thinking
about how they think about it, their mindsets,
54
00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:38,440
their values, etc. But also kind of distill it
into some principles and practices that were very
55
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:44,560
practical, because we know that that speaks well
to instructors, but also that would allow them to
56
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:50,360
reflect on their teaching. So after What Inclusive
Instructors Do, we knew that instructors aren't
57
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:56,320
the only voice, right? So we also knew that how
important it was to really get students involved
58
00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,920
and students seeing the benefits of inclusive
instruction, how did they experience these spaces
59
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,360
in terms of their sense of belonging, welcoming
environment, the feelings that it's equitable or
60
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:15,720
fair as well. So that kind of elicited our next
step to really do a study on students and to find
61
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,880
their perspectives. And a couple of things that
we were able to do with this study, which I think
62
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:27,080
is really helpful and useful for anybody, whether
they've read What Inclusive Instructors Do or not,
63
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,880
is we were also able to identify and ask students
aspects according to what are the pitfalls? What
64
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,680
have you seen not be inclusive? So that emerges
kind of more strongly also in this book than the
65
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,280
first book, for example. So we were able to
really capture their experiences and these
66
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:48,560
are students from a variety of institution types.
They're coming from a variety of classes they've
67
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,360
been taking, various identity backgrounds, etc.
So it really feels like now we're talking about
68
00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,760
students like students , it's their voice in
this book. So Enhancing Inclusive Instruction,
69
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:07,360
basically is just that, so that we can have
a more comprehensive picture understanding
70
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,880
of an inclusive classroom. What does it mean to
students? What does it look like for instructors?
71
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,880
And the beauty of it, and this is something that
I've been speaking about a lot is, how are these
72
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,240
alignments? What are the alignments between these
two perspectives? What are the differences between
73
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:27,640
these two perspectives? And how can we use
this wider body of knowledge by having these
74
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:34,000
viewpoints to really inform our practices in
what we do in the classroom. So in general,
75
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,880
both books, you can read both, you could read
one, either/or, but they really were meant to
76
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:45,120
really support inclusive instruction, no matter
where an instructor is in your journey.
77
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,120
As a user experience designer and
interaction designer, I really love
78
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,680
the very student-centered or audience-centered
nature of this book, and really bringing those
79
00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,360
voices to the forefront. Could you tell us
a little bit about how you found the student
80
00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:04,840
participants to participate in your project.
So much like we set out with the goal of hoping
81
00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:10,720
that our teaching is as inclusive as possible,
we also wanted that to be the case for our study,
82
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,960
and our recruitment in the voices that we were
hearing back from. So we made extensive efforts
83
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:22,200
to have as broad a population be able to give us
feedback, to participate in our surveys and our
84
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:27,000
interviews. And that's an important part, there
were opportunities for our student respondents to
85
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,520
reply via survey or via a virtual interview where
they could potentially even go further and have
86
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,680
deeper conversations around some of the topics
if they wanted as well. So in order to recruit,
87
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:44,480
after many collaborative meetings between myself
and Tracie and Khadija, we came up with a broad
88
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,720
spending plan to recruit students through using
connections that we had, various educational
89
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:56,840
listservs like POD, social media. We directly
communicated with various institutions across
90
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,640
the country, their teaching and learning center
specifically, but also faculty that we knew that
91
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,640
were invested in this type of work. And this
included institutions at the community college
92
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:13,000
level and research intensive institutions, liberal
arts, HBCUs, colleges for students who learn
93
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,880
differently, and basically any type of college
you can think of. We also did lean on and take
94
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:25,200
advantage of an opportunity to leverage technology
through cloud research, to expand our reach as
95
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:32,080
well. And through all of this, we did end up with
well over 300 responses from various students when
96
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,520
looked at geographically or institutionally
that were very diverse. And we felt good with
97
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,000
that as a basis for which to move forward.
One of the things we really appreciated when
98
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,480
we were running the reading group was the
reflection questions you had embedded in
99
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,200
what inclusive instructors do. And this
book also contains reflection questions
100
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,720
spread throughout each of the chapters. While
most teaching centers do encourage faculty to
101
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,840
engage in reflective practice, it's nice to see
that embedded in the books that they're reading.
102
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:04,400
But might this be even more effective when
faculty are reflecting on the student voices
103
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:10,400
that make up so much of the focus of this book?
Right, so one of the things that stood out to us,
104
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,400
when we did survey the inclusive instructors,
there was a particular quote saying that inclusive
105
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:22,360
teaching is a perpetual work in progress, informed
by research, dialogue, and reflection. And when we
106
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:28,800
think about that, in the context of incorporating
student voice, it's a perfect example of this. So
107
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,320
when we think about research, actually collecting
data from our students thoughout our courses,
108
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:39,440
and I mean that as a community of inclusive
instructors, and really fostering dialogue, and
109
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,280
to be honest, what we found from what students say
it is, that dialogue means we have to be willing
110
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:50,280
to share and discuss and actually negotiate the
space in our classrooms. And when we think about
111
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:56,200
reflection, thinking that there's no one set of
practices for every inclusive instructor that we
112
00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:01,720
can act, and we're not superheroes. So you can't
do all things, but you can do what you can to be
113
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,640
responsive to your learners’ needs at the same
time. So with that being said, when we came up
114
00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:11,240
with these reflection questions, and actually
thinking about one of those quotes from the
115
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:17,880
instructor, we saw that there were some mirroring
with the first book in terms of course design, and
116
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,800
creating a welcoming environment and conducting
the course. But really, we saw that there were
117
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,760
these 13 key themes, and that, although sometimes
they reflected what we saw in the first book,
118
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,120
we actually saw new themes emerge. So we really
wanted to write reflection questions that captured
119
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:39,680
that, that would help you delve deeper in thinking
about the student perspective. And I think to echo
120
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:45,880
something that Tracie mentioned, we really thought
about potential pitfalls with these questions that
121
00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,960
we wouldn't have thought if we didn't speak with
the students from their perspective to basically
122
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:58,440
avoid certain types of things that may not have
been the best for course design or maybe didn't
123
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:04,520
make everyone feel welcome, or when conducting
the course. So that was very encouraging,
124
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,520
the way that we could tailor these reflection
questions based on what the students said.
125
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:14,240
And I love that so much. One of the tools that
you developed and described in the book is
126
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,360
the Protocol for Advancing Inclusive
Teaching Efforts, or PAITE. Can you
127
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:23,440
describe this instrument for our listeners?
Sure. So the Protocol for Advancing Inclusive
128
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:29,480
Teaching Efforts is a classroom observation
protocol that enables instructors, in a formative
129
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:36,120
way, low stakes, to obtain feedback on 15 specific
instructional behaviors that are considered
130
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:41,440
inclusive, equitable types of behaviors. And this
protocol actually emerged from my work. And it's
131
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,480
a lot of what I've been doing in my own work is
really thinking about tools that can support our
132
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:52,160
instructors in building more inclusive classrooms.
And so this PAITE actually originated from that.
133
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:59,480
And we co-created it with students. So the student
partners that work on a lot of the inclusivity
134
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:04,760
efforts that I've done at my institution,
basically supported this work and helped
135
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,680
us measure reliability, et cetera. They were
like, you know, the researchers, they helped us
136
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:13,440
think about and devise it. So this particular
protocol, I think, has been pretty impactful.
137
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:20,040
We've done hundreds of observations with it at the
institution that I was previously at. And thinking
138
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:25,360
about all the debriefings, and all the feedback,
it really supported instructors in thinking about
139
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,360
their inclusive teaching practices. In fact, I
like to share some of the responses that I've seen
140
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:35,960
or heard them have around it. Some of them and
even some of the student partners will actually,
141
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,120
in future classes, they'll say, “Am I doing this?”
“Am I doing that?” They’ll actually reflect on
142
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:45,680
the codes that are embedded within this protocol
and continue to think about their practice. And
143
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:50,040
that's actually a very positive outcome of this.
If they're actually putting it in their awareness,
144
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,600
awareness is critical for knowing are we actually
doing these things that we say or hope we are
145
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,840
doing in the classroom, and that has actually
helped them really think about their teaching
146
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,960
differently. And then some of the students said
that actually, when they go to their own classes,
147
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,960
they'll start to think about the codes,
because they're so immersed in actually
148
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,880
doing a protocol or conducting it with their
partners as well. So that has been really
149
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:19,640
great to see. And so we included it in the
actual book, it has like a separate methods
150
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:25,400
kind of paper, or how we developed it. But in the
book, it really talks about how it can be used,
151
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,920
and how it aligns a lot of the behaviors, and I’m
actually doing a lot of this interesting mapping,
152
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,280
align with what the perspectives of the students
are, and also our instructors in What Inclusive
153
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:43,520
Instructors Do. So it provides a really beautiful
way to think about your teaching and monitor your
154
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,760
approaches, reflect on your teaching, by actually
having that data from your actual classroom.
155
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,720
And I think it's just really been helpful.
We've embedded it in a variety of different
156
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,040
academies and institutes, and different
programming at my previous institution.
157
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:04,600
So you mentioned the themes that have
arisen from the student interviews.
158
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:12,920
Could you talk a bit about those themes?
Sure. So we saw 13 themes. And interestingly,
159
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:19,480
seven of them centered on inclusive course design.
So I'll elaborate on the two that were the most
160
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,480
prominent. We were really interested and surprised
to see that maximizing student engagement from the
161
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,880
first assignment and throughout the course. So
the student has highlighted the importance of
162
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:35,080
that first assignment, and several of them,
they really believed that it helped them
163
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:42,440
have a high degree of engagement. But also it was
important that it required little content mastery,
164
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:48,760
and built upon their existing knowledge. And there
was a lot of positive feedback from successfully
165
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:54,120
completing that first assignment. Students
referred to short-term as well as long-term
166
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,480
positive emotions from that first assignment.
So that was really interesting. And group
167
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:05,360
work… we often think about group work in higher
education as a seminal active learning strategy,
168
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,120
different learning teamwork, and things like
that. So a lot of the students also echoed that,
169
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,800
that it maximized the engagement. But what
we saw them speak about was the pitfalls
170
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,120
from their perspective with the group work,
but in particular, those students that were
171
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:27,200
neurodivergent and had disabilities. And so some
students along with autism spectrum disorder,
172
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,640
and also attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
mentioned that, in that particular context,
173
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:39,320
they didn't feel most engaged with that. Student
choice was very prominent. We talked a lot about:
174
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,800
flexible deadlines were really important,
individual student preferences on assignments
175
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,440
and exams and accessibility needs and I think many
of us are going to talk a lot about mental health
176
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:55,560
and student well being. So that was very clear
there. So those two were some of the key things,
177
00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,280
but also, including course policies
that respectfully consider student time,
178
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:07,280
structures that are easily followed and designed
for student success. And students really wanted to
179
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:14,160
encourage feedback on the instructions, diversity
of materials, and finally, accounting for the type
180
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:20,040
of course delivery. So I think in a post-COVID19
world, they talked about the importance
181
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,200
of in person and hybrid and online themes. So that
was the last theme that we saw in that regard.
182
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,120
When you quote students, you include references
to their identities. And when faculty first
183
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,600
start teaching, they sometimes assume that
students in their classes are maybe just as
184
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,200
they were as a student, but the mention of
the diverse student identities in the book,
185
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,080
hopefully help remind faculty about the diversity
of their students, and may also help encourage
186
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:51,600
faculty to use a version of the “Who's in class
form.” Can you talk a little bit about that?
187
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:57,280
So with Inclusive teaching, I think identity is
a key word to be keeping in mind, this concept
188
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,720
of identity, this concept that everybody that
enters the classroom has their own unique identity
189
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:08,960
that brings with it a wealth of assets, but also
potentially some personal bias. And this goes for
190
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,760
the instructor just as much as the students if not
more, and with the role the instructor is playing,
191
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,600
it might be most important there to acknowledge
it. So why we include the identity information
192
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,600
that our student respondents shared willingly
within their surveys was to that reason,
193
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,840
for some of our faculty, for our readers,
for our instructors, to acknowledge that
194
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:36,240
the students that are responding are not identical
to us when we were students, or us as we are now.
195
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,960
But also beyond that, to acknowledge that no two
students are the same. And we're seeing different
196
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:47,080
identities across these student respondents.
And with all of this in mind that even the idea
197
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,920
of teaching to the average student, well,
there is no average student really, and
198
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:57,120
that creates significant issues, to the idea of
inclusive teaching. So for all of these reasons,
199
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:02,560
we did think it was really important to include
those identity aspects of the quoted students that
200
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:08,920
was shared. We think this helps frame the quote,
with some context, some important context, and
201
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:15,040
hopefully also makes the quote more real for our
readers. This came from somebody, a real person,
202
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:21,160
a real student. So I do think, to your point about
the “who's in class form,” and things like that,
203
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:27,360
that once we as instructors recognize and are
aware of the diversity in our student populations,
204
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:33,800
it becomes much more clear that getting to know
our students is critical to teaching inclusively,
205
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,680
and to including them in the learning process. So
you mentioned the who's in class form, which was
206
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,480
part of the first book, and that's certainly one
way to do it that we've had a lot of success with.
207
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,640
I've personally used it for years now in every
class that I've taught since its development, and
208
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,480
had just great personal experience and positive
feedback from the students. There was a study that
209
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,760
was published that showed student perception
and instructor perception also very positive
210
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,640
for the who's in class form. So it's a tool that
we share, because we want it to be available for
211
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,520
instructors to use, they don't need to reinvent
the wheel in this situation. It's a great way
212
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,480
to start from the very beginning from the first
day like Khadija was mentioning with that first
213
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,520
assignment being important… also, that first day,
that first interaction, that first relationship
214
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,200
building step to be one where it says, “I want
to get to know you because you matter in this
215
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,120
classroom.” So that's one tool that we offer
up to our readers and want them to be aware of,
216
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,040
but there are other ways to do it as well. And
I think that it's important for instructors to
217
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,000
think critically about their classrooms
and their institutions and their contexts
218
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,240
and determine what works best for them within
their class to get to know their students.
219
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:44,400
You mentioned the importance of the context for
instructors. And one of your chapters in the book
220
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,440
focuses on providing advice for historically
excluded instructors and their allies,
221
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,360
because faculty are often in a very different
context in terms of how students perceive them
222
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,440
and how students perceive their identities. Could
you talk a little bit about some of the things
223
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,400
that you emphasize in this chapter?
Yes, perfect segue. So in this chapter,
224
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:10,600
we really wanted to emphasize that we see you,
we hear you, like understanding instructors
225
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,440
from historically excluded backgrounds can
have different experiences in the classroom,
226
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:20,720
as you mentioned, John, a bit, but also to give
some advice and encouragement and support for how
227
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:26,080
to still do this work because we know that a lot
of instructors even from historically excluded
228
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,160
backgrounds, in even my experiences and me being
one , we know that there's a lot of investment
229
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,800
in this. There's a lot of investment and then the
importance of this. So some of the advice we give
230
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:43,760
is general advice. What we know that students
really appreciate in general and then also some
231
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:49,720
really concrete advice to really support them in
having the evidence that they are teaching well.
232
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,800
So the first thing to really think about and we
talk about in this section is just care, like,
233
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,440
how do we demonstrate care for our students,
and regardless of whatever identities,
234
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,680
care is critical. We also talk a little bit about
other types of strategies. Some of them may or
235
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:10,000
may not resonate with folks, again, all of the
stuff we give as options to really think about,
236
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,960
to experiment with, to practice with, to really
think about what makes sense for you. So we give
237
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:20,680
a couple of examples from people who've actually
been doing this work as well. So things that have
238
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,880
been published around storytelling, thinking about
your story and who you are, what you choose to
239
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,600
share with your students. And you might withhold
some things, you might share some other things,
240
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,200
and there's good reasons for that, depending
on your identity as well. We also talk a little
241
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:39,400
bit about engaging your allies and advocates,
because you really want to have people in your
242
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:45,280
departments, and at your institution, who really
value and can speak highly of your teaching,
243
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,000
they know that you're doing a good job, and
they can advocate for that. So engaging them
244
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,960
in various ways is important. We have these
great tools we talk about, the PAITE, etc. So
245
00:21:53,960 --> 00:22:00,480
being able to actually have data that actually
shows that you are doing things that align with
246
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,160
what the research and evidence says can support
students and their success in the classroom. So
247
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,720
collecting that information, and just making
sure you have it when you need it. And just
248
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:17,520
for your own practice is also really critical,
I think, for instructors, in this way, too. So
249
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,440
those are just a few of many types of guidance
that we do give in this section. I think it's
250
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:28,240
really important to consider what makes the most
sense. I will say, in working with instructors,
251
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:34,240
and also thinking about myself as a black woman
teaching as well, it's so contextual. It's just
252
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,040
like you can't say that this will happen in this
course, or this or that with this instructor.
253
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,480
But we know that there's a lot of variation that
can happen. And I think a lot of these different
254
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:49,080
guidance points can really help equip people to
really think about what makes sense for them in
255
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:54,120
terms of how they engage with Inclusive teaching
practice. And the last thing I'll share is that
256
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:58,800
even in What Inclusive Instructors Do, if we
break down and disaggregate the instructors
257
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,400
a bit, we see a lot of instructors successfully
talking about doing this work from historically
258
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:11,280
excluded backgrounds. And so we know like it's
happening, we do it in our classes, as well. So
259
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,960
this is not being meant to be like discouraging
at all, but a very encouraging chapter. And
260
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:22,480
just having some tools and equipment to kind of
continue so that you also can be seen that way at
261
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:29,400
your institution and you have that information.
I love these themes of reflection and data and
262
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,720
being able to tell your story of who you are as
a teacher and why you're doing these inclusive
263
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:39,080
practices and that there's evidence that it's
working and supporting your students. Chapter
264
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:43,960
10 of your book focuses on a topic that we've
certainly talked about a bit on this podcast,
265
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:50,160
and it's all over the news and conversations
in higher ed, which is AI and instructional
266
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:55,320
practices. Can you talk a little bit about
some of the ways in which generative AI can
267
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,080
support an equitable learning environment?
I think it's a really important topic right
268
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,440
now. And on the ground, what I hear most commonly
instructors talking about, and faculty talking
269
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:12,120
about are the challenges that AI presents us
around commonly topics like academic integrity,
270
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:19,000
like, “Oh, here's my assignment, my students are
just going to go to [insert AI platform here] and
271
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,360
complete that assignment and then submit it. And
it's hard for me… the tools for understanding if
272
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:27,920
that occurred or not, can be challenging still at
this point.” But I think what our chapter wanted
273
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:34,600
to do more than focus on those challenges is kind
of flip the table on that and focus on what are
274
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,360
the potential benefits, like you mentioned, to
increasing equity in the classroom and inclusivity
275
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,800
in the classroom? And they are manifold, when
you take the time to actually look at it and
276
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:50,360
think about it. And I think the chapter goes over
a number of examples to show how this can be done.
277
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:56,520
In terms of benefits that we see AI being able to
be leveraged with in the classroom, incorporating
278
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,040
and developing more efficient learning experiences
is certainly one of them. It can kind of balance
279
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,120
prior knowledge gaps that students come with to
the classroom by being a tool which can be used
280
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:15,200
for brainstorming and ideation and things along
that line, so that maybe a student can go to a
281
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:22,480
platform with a particular question or broad topic
and use that platform as a tool to help kind of
282
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,360
narrow down something that they want to explore
more deeply, get some ideas that maybe they
283
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,040
didn't have the knowledge that they brought with
themselves to class to come up with that idea on
284
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,160
their own, but now they can get there, and it can
kind of even up that playing field a little bit.
285
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:40,320
There's also additional benefits to multilingual
learners in terms of helping learn the language
286
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,480
that their course is being taught in, writing more
fluently and efficiently, and better understanding
287
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,480
written material that's present. It can help
personalize learning in a really equitable
288
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:56,200
way. There's a portion of the chapter that
speaks to the idea of using AI as an additional
289
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,160
support for overcoming kind of the muddiest
points in a classroom. So if an instructor is
290
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,560
either directly asking students what is the most
challenging topic, what is the muddiest point,
291
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:12,520
those points could then be used and imported into
an AI platform to help navigate those situations,
292
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,000
or it could just be pointed as a tool that
students could use on their own when they come
293
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,000
up with their muddiest point and when they find a
topic that's challenging for them. Now, of course,
294
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,720
all of this has to go within the concept of how
reputable is the response that we're getting,
295
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:33,640
how trustworthy is the output of these different
platforms. But that also actually leads into what
296
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:39,400
a really potentially beneficial assignment tool
would be with this, which is the idea of using
297
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,120
these platforms, seeing what their responses are,
and then having the students kind of fact check
298
00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:50,640
and revise and edit and think critically about
those responses. And there's an assignment there
299
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:56,040
where students can essentially take a prompt,
import it into an AI platform, see what they
300
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,880
get back, and then the assignment is actually go
through this, revise this, edit it, fact-check it:
301
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:07,080
“What would you change?” And that can be a really
great way to enhance the critical thinking and
302
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,840
evaluation aspects that we're really trying
to build in a lot of our students with, again,
303
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:17,480
narrowing and balancing what's needed for kind of
background knowledge coming in. So there's these
304
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,760
and many other mechanisms that are talked about
in the chapter, including ones for, as instructors
305
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,240
it can be a tool to brainstorm ideas for: “What
are the most inclusive ways I can teach on this
306
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,040
topic? Give me a list of 10 of these?” And then
the instructor can look through that list and say,
307
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,160
“Hey, which one of these might work best for my
class context? And how can I adapt that to work
308
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,760
for me?” So there's lots of ways in which AI can
be a really positive tool, as long as we use it
309
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:48,360
in that way, and are appreciative and recognize
the potential challenges that it also faces.
310
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:52,800
It's certainly a bit of a challenging time in
terms of professional development for faculty,
311
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,400
because as you said, so many people just say,
“this is just another tool for students to
312
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,480
cheat,” because they haven't really played with
it that must themselves, they haven't really seen
313
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,960
the potential. And I think that's something that
all teaching centers are going to have to continue
314
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,680
to work on quite a bit to help faculty become
more aware of how these tools can be used to
315
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,240
complement other forms of learning, rather than
as a substitute, which is what they're concerned
316
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,800
about. So in addition to your two books, what
are some other strategies that faculty can use to
317
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,360
help create a more inclusive environment in their
classes? I know, you've talked about some of them,
318
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:31,480
like the “Who’s in class form,” and so forth? But
what are some other ways that faculty can work to
319
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,720
become more inclusive? Or what are some of the
things faculty who have not thought about this
320
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:42,360
much should start focusing on most immediately?
That is a great question. I think, yes, we have
321
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:48,680
a ton of great resources, like books and tools
like PAITE, and our lived experience. There's
322
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,960
something that I really think this particular
study and process and talking to students that
323
00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,400
really resonated with us is thinking about
nonverbal communication. Often people think
324
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,520
inclusive teaching takes so much effort,
but even thinking about your personality,
325
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:11,680
you're smiling. So for example, smiling, warm and
welcoming tone, being thoughtful about tone. For
326
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:17,640
example, students say not getting angry. So to
throw back to something that Derek mentioned,
327
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,040
is thinking about your instructor background,
and what type of strategies or the nonverbal
328
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:29,360
communication are you communicating. So that
is definitely easy if you're in person. But if
329
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:35,080
you're online, some things that I think you can
think about is the use of thumbs up, clapping,
330
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:42,120
things like that. Something that recently came up
for discussion was when you are online courses,
331
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:48,120
do you tell your students to change the tone of
the thumbs up so that everyone is reflected in
332
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,280
that space and welcome? Students have actually
responded that they feel more included in that
333
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:59,320
space with nonverbal communication. So using
emojis in emails, some students actually thought
334
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:04,800
that made their instructor more approachable,
but I will say, that being an instructor in 2024,
335
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,480
you have to watch that. There is a pitfall
there. Studies have shown overuse of the
336
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:17,160
emojis, induce sometimes less confidence in the
instructor. I think, being mindful of any strategy
337
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,760
that you can use to be mindful of the nonverbal
communication. But the verbal communication I'll
338
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:28,760
say, unequivocally, I keep going back to this…
the mug… it is really important to know names,
339
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:35,360
say names correctly, and to use chosen names. So
name tents can help with that, using an annotated
340
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:41,680
class roster, seating charts, photos, mnemonic
devices, student introductions, those things are
341
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:48,120
concrete. And I think the last thing I would say,
is actually telling jokes. So a lot of instructors
342
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,200
use humor in college and university classrooms.
So that tends to go over very well, there's a
343
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,560
positive effect on students in the learning
environment, and making people feel included.
344
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:05,120
But again, a word of caution, thinking about how
the joke can land. So it could be very powerful in
345
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:11,640
that way. But also wanting to be mindful if you're
going to, in fact, use that particular strategy to
346
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,760
make your students feel welcome.
Well, we always wrap up by asking:
347
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,120
“What's next?”
I'll share a little bit
348
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,480
about some of the things that I'm working
on. So with regards to my scholarship,
349
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,640
I kind of hover between teaching and learning and
also educational development in general. And so
350
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,840
a couple of things that are exciting, I think,
for the future is we're currently proposing a
351
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,960
multi-site PAITE study. And so that study will
dig deeper into the impacts of, we're hoping,
352
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,560
of the PAITE in the classroom. Since now, we've
been using it a lot, but we don't have all the
353
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,840
data from the classroom and the experiences of
students and the instructors. So we're going to be
354
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,440
doing a multi-site study in the next year or two.
So hopefully, you'll see that come out. Another
355
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,400
project that we actually just finished off, a
smaller project, we talked about group work,
356
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:02,080
students experiences with group work, and that
being a challenging area. So we implemented
357
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:09,400
an intervention this past year at my previous
institution, in collaboration with another center,
358
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:14,280
and several classrooms, several instructors in
their classrooms. And so we did collect some data
359
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,320
on that. We just are synthesizing it. So we're
gonna hope to write that up and also share the
360
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:24,600
resource that we use, that was an intervention
that we created that students use to help empower
361
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,560
them to really have more effective group work
experiences, more inclusive, more equitable kinds
362
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,680
of experiences. And then a couple of things I'm
working on in an educational development realm,
363
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:40,360
we just collected data from the POD community
and outside on educational development right
364
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,000
now in our times, so we can track how it changes.
So we're in the process right now, this summer,
365
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,640
of starting to write the book, which will be the
next one… it’s written like almost every 10 years
366
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,880
educational development in the age of… and we're
gonna ffill that in based on the results of the
367
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:00,320
study, and then some other educational development
things. And lastly, as was mentioned earlier,
368
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,320
I'm moving to a new institution. So I'm going to
launch a new Institute for Teaching, Learning,
369
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,480
and Inclusive Pedagogy. So that's going to be very
exciting to really think about what's next there,
370
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,400
it will be launching the first center
at Rutgers University, New Brunswick,
371
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,360
and it will have embedded within it all of this
inclusive stuff. So there's so many things to
372
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:23,400
bring there and to increase and expand.
Yeah, for me, I mean, I think coming out of
373
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,040
the work of this study that led to this book, I
think where I am is continuing to spread the word,
374
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,080
but then also putting it into action. And that
means personally, for me, in my own teaching,
375
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,600
taking all the things that I learned through this
process of listening to students, working with my
376
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,200
fantastic colleagues, and writing this book, and
having conversations like these, putting that into
377
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,720
action, and making sure we're walking the walk, so
to say, because that's the only way this actually
378
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,240
happens. And in my role at the University of
St. Joseph, again, I'm not only a instructor,
379
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,600
a faculty member in the biology department, but
I'm also the director of the first year seminar
380
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,600
program here at USJSJ.. a two-semester long
program. It's a true first year program, where the
381
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,240
first semester is a three-credit course that is
kind of half transitioning to college and half an
382
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:16,120
academic component where the students get to dive
into college learning. And the second semester is
383
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:21,920
a one-credit course where it's service based and
meeting the mission of our university to engage in
384
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,960
compassionate service. So as in my director role,
I am thinking a lot about how do we help students
385
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,840
transition to college in their first year?
And I think there's a lot that we can gain
386
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,800
from listening to students. And that was reported
out in this book that can be leveraged there. So
387
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,800
building in some of these ideas of really getting
to know the students, engaging in opportunities
388
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,120
for student choice within our first-year seminar
program itself as well, kind of coming out of
389
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,320
the work of this, I've created a college success
portfolio that we're implementing in the program.
390
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,360
We implemented it for the first time this past
year that ties a lot of these features in that
391
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,680
allows students to talk about right off the bat,
their first assignment is nothing to do with the
392
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,960
content, but it's the “Why are you here? Why
college? What are your goals, both in college
393
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,440
and out of college? And this is something that
the students can succeed with, right away to
394
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,000
kind of set that form and let them know that
their instructors here at the institution care
395
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,840
about them as learners, and that the learning
that they'll go through will be personalized
396
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,960
for them. So something that we're piloting here
at the University of St. Joseph trying out but
397
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,960
long term would be something that we would
hope to share out with the greater community
398
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,800
and hopefully help those first-year experiences
at institutions around the nation and globe.
399
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:39,720
Well, for me, there's one thing that really
struck me as we worked on these two projects,
400
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:46,120
was that inclusive teaching is very similar
to inclusive research mentoring. And so I do
401
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,480
a lot of research mentoring. There's a lot of
teaching strategies in dealing with different
402
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,880
types of learners in a research laboratory
setting, so I'm really interested in going
403
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,400
in the direction of thinking about how some
of these strategies and things that we learned
404
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:05,600
translate to a research mentorship context. And
also, because I'm at an institution now that has
405
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:10,840
graduate students and postdocs, really train
the next generation of inclusive instructors,
406
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:17,320
and particularly those that are in STEM spaces. So
when I'm working with a mentor to our postdoctoral
407
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:23,200
advisory committee here, and trying to get
them excited about being inclusive instructors
408
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,240
as they transition to their next phase.
We're looking forward to hearing about all the
409
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:32,760
things that you're continuing to do because you're
making an important difference in our teaching and
410
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,600
learning community. Thanks for joining us.
Thank you.
411
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,800
It's great to see all of you again
and talk to you again. And this time,
412
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,120
we shouldn't let it go quite as long as
between our last discussion and this one.
413
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,200
Thank you so much for having us
again. It's been a pleasure.
414
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,560
Yes. Thank you.
This is so fun.
415
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:57,520
Either that or you're enough to write
books faster, one or the other.
416
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,520
If you've enjoyed this podcast, please
subscribe and leave a review on iTunes
417
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,600
or your favorite podcast service.
To continue the conversation,
418
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,160
join us on our Tea for Teaching Facebook page.
You can find show notes, transcripts and other
419
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:27,520
materials on teaforteaching.com.
Music by Michael Gary Brewer.
