Keith Rosson: The Punk Rock, Legally Blind Art School Dropout Who Writes Jaw Dropping Horror

Keith Rosson: I think when I was thirty I s really started writing short stories and made that leap to like, okay, I'm gonna start writing fiction. And I just fucking loved all of the hassle of it. I loved
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: getting rejection letters from like serious, cool, respected literary magazines. And I was like, my god, I'm doing it. You know what I mean? It was so rad.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: And then when I got an acceptance, I was like, this is this is what I wanna do,
Rachel Redd: Welcome to Talking Horror. I'm Rachel Redd, and I love to read. Especially Horror Thriller and the books that explore the darker side of humanity. On this show, I interview authors about their books, their process, and why we're so drawn to stories that make us want to sleep with the lights on. Today I'm joined by Keith Rawson, acclaimed author of Smoke City, Fever House, and his latest novel, Coffin Moon. His books are dark and gritty. But that doesn't stop them from being an emotional gut punch and filled with characters searching for hope in impossible places. Keith has carved out a space in modern horror that is entirely his own. One where supernatural terror collides with grief, addiction, found family, and the people just simply trying to survive it. It's visceral and unsettling, but remarkably compassionate at its core, and it's always one punk ho punk. Rock hell of a ride. I'm so excited. So let's jump into it. Keith, welcome to the show.
Keith Rosson: thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Rachel Redd: Yes, where are you calling in from? These days.
Keith Rosson: this is my work office in our house in Portland, Oregon.
Rachel Redd: Okay, Oregon, nice. That's
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: a I I was in Portland, I was in Bend, Oregon for the first time this year. Beautiful place.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, we live mm right next to a a big park and so it's kind of a mixed bag during the summertime. 'Cause it gets really loud
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: and we're still people are still like, Let's light off fireworks in the park at two in the morning. You know what I mean? That sort of shit. So
Rachel Redd: geez. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the Fourth of July weekend isn't like the most fun.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally. Like we got we got out of town for the fourth and we I thought we'd survive most of it, but there's still those people that are just like, We still have more fireworks, let's go light them off. So
Rachel Redd: Yeah. I think that I I'm in Colorado, so obviously no fireworks this year,
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Right.
Rachel Redd: or really we should have any year, just 'cause it's such a fire hazard. But I think that there's like this idea that the price of fireworks is expensive now. They've like it's gone
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: up. And so if you buy a a bunch, you have to use them all. But you always buy
Keith Rosson: Right. And I mean
Rachel Redd: more than you can use in one night. So then just for like the week, they just continually get set off.
Keith Rosson: Totally. Yeah. It's like leftovers, you know what I mean? You gotta eat it. You can't let go bad. Yeah. Yeah. absolutely. We
Rachel Redd: Yeah, that's true. But also like fuck fireworks, you know.
Keith Rosson: like Portland, there's no fireworks allowed in all of the city.
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: but that doesn't stop people, you know what mean? So yeah, totally.
Rachel Redd: From yeah, doing it anyways. Yeah. I saw a hilarious karma filled video of a gentleman setting off fireworks like outside his house, in the middle of the street in a neighborhood where it was banned, and the firework got like le it l laid wrong. So when it fired it it exploded back behind him into his box of fireworks. So
Keith Rosson: goodness,
Rachel Redd: All the fireworks went off at once and it was like a huge
Keith Rosson: yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
Rachel Redd: explosion right next to his car. And they were all
Keith Rosson: You're right.
Rachel Redd: like running for their lives. And I thought, you know, that's what you deserve.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, there you go. Right.
Rachel Redd: So karma is still real. all right. Well, I don't know if you've ever heard the show before. We're so excited to have you, but I always like to start really with getting to know how horror became the genre for you. S you know, everyone's story is a little bit different. Were you always drawn to horror like as a genre? Were you like a spooky little kid who was into that stuff? or you know, was it something you discovered later?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, you know, I mean, I like most kids my age, I s had access to Stephen King paperbacks way before I should have, you know. And so I was reading like his big novels by the time I was like ten. And
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: so it was a heady mixture of like that, G. I. Joe and like X Men, you know what I mean? Those were like
Rachel Redd: Okay. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: my formative things. And then I found punk when I was a teenager. And that really f just feverishly took hold for a really long time. And so and then in my twenties I started reading, you know, I'd always been a reader, but I started reading like kind of like tough dude literary fiction, you know, and realizing
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: that you can write kind of like masculine shit, but it doesn't have to necessarily be meat headed, you know what I mean? And it can have like
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: a a beautiful the language itself can be really beautiful. guys like Daryl Spencer and like Craig Davidson's early stuff, you know. and I was doing a punk fanzine too. You know, I started doing zines when I was a a kid. And all of that just kind of morphed into starting with short stories and then eventually, you know, trying my hand at novels. But like horror came I'd say that Feverhouse is my first like True horror novel, you know.
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: something like The Mercy of the Tide, which is my first novel that came out. I guess, I mean, it has a monster in it, you know, but it's also
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: I feel like that's way more of a a slowburn like character study of a of a bunch of people mourning the loss of their families, you know.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so yeah, I feel like Feverhouse is the first one where it's just like, okay, this is this is a horror book.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. I talked to Chuck Tingle c recently, great guy, what a character. And he described horror as like the punk rock j like genre for fiction.
Keith Rosson: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: because it is kind of for the rebels and the outsiders and the people who d th that see be behind the curtain and want better
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: understanding of the lies, who are like refuse to be sheep. You know, we have a lot of
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: that in the horror genre. So it makes sense that both of these things are great loves of yours. Because you
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: before you became a writer, you illustrated for like punk rock,
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: like band art design, correct? That was kind of your main
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally.
Rachel Redd: thing. How did the ta talk that that's so fascinating. How did that, you know, come into your life?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, you know, it's it's crazy. I had a pretty wild upbringing and so when my family, when my mom kinda got sober and got her act together, I was ten I found out then that I was actually legally blind and had been born legally blind. and
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: ha was this thing called optic nerve hypoplasia, which is just a really severe form of tunnel vision. And I didn't know it until I was like ten. And by that time I was already very enmeshed in like drawing and making comics and stuff, you know. And so by the time that this this like impairment came down, I was already very enmeshed in art and it never stopped me. And so by the time punk came around I was just like drawing record covers and looking at all these punk fanzines and these artists, you know? And it really just I think I did my first seven inch cover when I was fifteen and I got paid in records and it was just like I have arrived, you know. And I did it
Rachel Redd: Sure.
Keith Rosson: for the next like twenty five years, you know.
Rachel Redd: Wow. are you do you
Keith Rosson: Yeah. And it was really
Rachel Redd: yeah, do you dabble in that anymore or you or is that th the past, your past life?
Keith Rosson: No. That is, it's for one, I like, I mean, it's funny. Photoshop is now like the subscription service, and it's such a massive pain in the ass to use. And
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: and I got tired of the hustle of like, you know, like hitting up Joey and the butt nuts for the hundred and fifty dollars they owed me or whatever. You know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Yeah, right.
Keith Rosson: if you want to get paid it's like, Okay, but can we also have the color separations in this color, this color, this color, this color for free. You know what I mean? It's
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: just exhausting to freelance that way.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, I can imagine. Do you have like a favorite or like the coolest experience for like I designed that cover and like everybody knows it? Or do you have or do you
Keith Rosson: yeah.
Rachel Redd: have like a like a a classic favorite like trophy like art design that you're just like I s like I slayed that?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, you know, I mean there's one where I don't think that a lot of people have even heard of it, but this wonderful, I think Canadian Screamo band called Todos Karan. And they have this LP that the LP is called After Dark and it's like a die-cut moon. So it's the cityscape.
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: And then when you put the lyric sheet in, depending on what side you put the lyric sheet it's either a half moon or a full moon. And so just little details like that, you know, are just so
Rachel Redd: nice. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: fun. So that was really cool to do.
Rachel Redd: That's awesome. That's super, super that's so cool. So you're you're designing for art covers. And I do want to come back to I had read this fact that you were legally blind, which is so
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: interesting. so actually maybe we'll go there first and then I'll go back to writing. But so you so you're ten, you say you've you're fine, you figure this out. you're already into sounds like comics and art. it and it just didn't once you discovered that this was something that you were now going to live with, did it change the way that you approached drawing and and and art and design? did it like or do you think it like a allowed you a different perspective on i in that arena, or was it like, well, I've already been drawing this way, so I'll just keep doing it.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, I mean, I think that there's not a lot of self reflection as a ten year old, you know what I mean? You just kinda going along.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, true.
Keith Rosson: And I recognized after drawing for years and years and years, as like a you in probably my twenties, that it's like, this visual impairment does offer me like a unique style that's challenging sometimes because like I can't see the whole page all at once. You know what
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: I mean? So if I'm drawing like from life I can't see the whole thing that I'm drawing. And so that really offers like a very weird, almost like flattening style. And
Rachel Redd: Hm.
Keith Rosson: I kind of just turned that into an asset over the years, you know, and learned enough
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: like illustration and design tricks to kind of mask it when necessary, but also like expand on it. And so, you know.
Rachel Redd: Interesting.
Keith Rosson: It was fun. It was really fun to do shirts and record covers and stuff.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and so were it not for the endless like hustle of payment and the the measure creep of like, but can we get this and this and this and this and this? I just got burnt out on it, you know. But the act
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: itself is so fun.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. And I imagine th the threat, it's not even a threat anymore, is it? It's just here with us of AI makes some of that visual design pretty you I I mean, that is one of those things where unless you really know art, we have AI that is good enough now that you're like, they
Keith Rosson: Right.
Rachel Redd: they're they're taking people's jobs. Like that's one of those things where it gets really easy and free.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: for for for bands to kind of drop in some of that.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, and thankfully, at least in the scenes that I'm familiar with, there's also like cultural pushback real hard. You know,
Rachel Redd: good. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and like in what I've seen in the horror community, is like people are just like, fuck that. Back up, you know what I mean? And in the
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.
Keith Rosson: the punk circles I run in, like that's that's pretty uniform as well. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Okay. Yeah. I imagine I mean create people who are artists and creating one art that's created by humans. And I
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: think you can tell the difference. especially in writing, which is obviously the thing I know most where I
Keith Rosson: Okay.
Rachel Redd: spend most of my time, it does feel pretty clear what has been created from a human from human experience. you know, the nuance
Keith Rosson: Yeah, and it
Rachel Redd: of that.
Keith Rosson: when you look at it like it's such a weird idea too of like I'm going to use this machine that's culled everything from all of us and I'm going to create it for an event in which we all get together and we watch live humans play music. Like that's so fucking weird to me. You know what I mean? Like, why would you do that? It's easier, yes,
Rachel Redd: Mhm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: but like, my god, if there's one thing we've you know been shown easier is not always better.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. A hundred percent. all right. So you're also a self proclaimed art school dropout twice removed. So
Keith Rosson: Ha ha ha.
Rachel Redd: I love this title. It's you should get it on a t shirt and wear it around.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, right. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: so talk me through art school once, not for you, dropout. You think, you know what, maybe I was wrong. Let me try
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: it again. so what about art school drew you twice and why didn't it why did it not work for you?
Keith Rosson: You know, I I went the first time I went to arts like Cornish, which is a pretty respected art school, right out of high school, and just simply did not have the tools to to do well. You know what I mean? I think
Rachel Redd: Hm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: I got accepted in large part because of my visual impairment, you know what I mean? Like my grades sure
Rachel Redd: I see.
Keith Rosson: as shit were not good, you know.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and I just couldn't cut it and I got on academic probation and then that meant I lost one of my scholarships and yada yada and so had to bail. then a couple of years later I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do graphic design. And found it way too technical and
Rachel Redd: Hm.
Keith Rosson: exhausting and all the again the minutiae of like the technical aspects of like, God, do I really want to be doing like, you know, catalogs? Like I don't know. That's terrifying.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: to be doing like, you know, page proofs for a real estate catalog or something. And so
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: again I bailed yet again. So it's kind of just one of those like, shame on me, fool me once, shame on me, and then, well, shame on me twice. Forget it. You know, I'm done.
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you tried, and that's what matters. You really were d doing
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm. There you go. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: your best and and you made a career from it without it. So didn't even matter at the end of the day. I just love that. I just love art school dropout twice removed. I just think that's
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally. Right. Right. Yeah. Right.
Rachel Redd: a great claim to to walk around with. okay, so now we'll go back to writing. Talk me through the pipeline because You well, it sounds like you were always a reader, which is great. Some short story writing. but the d the the the pipeline from like, you know, creating these cool like punk scene scene album art to then traditional publishing, I mean, those are very different disciplines. So how did that when did you make the shift? How did you know? Were you kind of doing both at the same time?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, so like I said, I was doing punk fanzines since I was like thirteen years old, and I started my own fanzine, Avow, when I was eighteen, and it started
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: out as like a punk and poetry merging of like selected
Rachel Redd: nice.
Keith Rosson: poems from, you know, people that I'd like asked to submit and then all the punks hated the poetry shit and vice versa, you know. And so then it eventually merged into like like just me doing my own art and like creative nonfiction in it, you know? And so I and I did twenty-five issues of it and it was like gathered in a couple volumes, like books and stuff. And I think when I was thirty I s really started writing short stories and made that leap to like, okay, I'm gonna start writing fiction. And I just fucking loved all of the hassle of it. You know what I mean? All like I loved
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: getting rejection letters from like fucking serious, cool, respected literary magazines. And I was like, my god, I'm doing it. You know what I mean? It was so rad.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: And then when I got an acceptance, I was like, this is this is what I wanna do, you know? And
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Where where was that acceptance? Was that like it was a short story for a magazine?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, I s I just started getting them at like, you know, like college journals and stuff, you know,
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: and like literary mags and stuff. And and that was all when I was doing like a lot of literary fiction and then eventually my short stories started morphing into these weird, like magical realism stuff. That really happened organically and I couldn't pinpoint what exactly it was that made that shift, you know.
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: But it just it happened really organically. And then when I was in my late thirties, I started writing this novel, Smoke City. And
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: and I queer started I finished it. It was the first book that I'd done where it was like, this is kind of like what I want it to be, which I don't know if you've written a novel before, but goddamn, they never end that way. You know what I mean? You're like,
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: This is like what I want it to be. That never happens.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so that was like the first time. And so I started querying agents with it. and again, just that fearlessness of like any kind of movement was good movement. And I got 97 rejections, I think, from literary agents. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Holy shit that's a lot.
Keith Rosson: Before I got a before I got a yes. And
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: that agent and I worked on stuff a little bit, and He like shopped it around to all the big five publishers and we got a lot of great feedback, but ultimately they were like, we don't know how the hell to market this. because it's a weird, weird, weird book, you know. And and eventually we landed with this indie press called Meerkat Press, and they while Smoke City was being shopped around, I started writing a new book called The Mercy of the Tide. And that actually
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: wound up being my first novel that came out. I was forty when it came out.
Rachel Redd: Okay. Okay. So you were so Smoke but the then Smoke City did also eventually get published, correct? Okay. Interesting.
Keith Rosson: It w yeah, it was published second, which is so weird. But yeah, I wrote it first, yep.
Rachel Redd: Okay. Even though it was your fur it was technically the debut, right? The one that you had started with. Huh.
Keith Rosson: Right. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: And did you do both of those with Me or Cat Publishing? Yeah. Okay.
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did four books with them. I did
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: those two and then a novel Road Seven and a story collection, folk songs for trauma surgeons.
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Awesome. Crazy. So it was quite a long journey then. If you started kind of writing short stories in your early thirties and then you have a book.
Keith Rosson: Y yeah, totally.
Rachel Redd: It's like the the ten year that's actually when I hear the opposite, which I have a couple of times, you know, you have your like the unicorns, you have those like one offs where people are like, This is the first book I wrote and I got an agent right away and I shopped it and I sold it. And you're like, holy
Keith Rosson: you hear that shit, yeah. I wrote it in six weeks and I got a s you know, six figure advance for a three book d like fuck off, dude. my god. Great for you. That's awesome for you. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Congratulations. Couldn't be me. Yeah, I know. But I do think the more the the you know, I've been working at this for a really long time is very common. And I think I I think good for people who are like, I think I'm gonna write a book to hear because it's not just like, I'm gonna write a book and then two years from now I'm gonna be an author. Like That's not really usually the way that it works.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: I think probably statistically your story is more common. That always reminds me
Keith Rosson: Mm.
Rachel Redd: of I don't know you remember the band Fun, but they had this one huge hit. They they were they had been around for forever. Kind of an indie band, kind of like, you know, i i in in the like dark web. We were following them on SoundCloud, you know, that kind of thing.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: And they had but they had this one song that just went they just blew up and they won New Artist of the Year at you know, some award show and the lead singer gets up and they're all in their forties, you know, mid four they're
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: all married kids and he goes, This is a really weird thing to be to win because like we are not a new band. Like we have been playing for twenty five years. and I
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: just always think that's like such a like good perspective of art to have because I think there's like a real romantic idea around how easy it can be and if you just work hard enough and you just like you know and and and honestly the journey is just it's tough, right? It's it's a it's a grind.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, and I mean I it's it's interesting to me because like I still will occasionally read things where it's like I'm a a breakout author or a new author or whatever, you know? And
Rachel Redd: Mm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: next year I'll two books are coming out next year, and so that will be ten books in ten years that I'll have done. And I'm like,
Rachel Redd: Yeah, right.
Keith Rosson: I don't like I I we've put in the time here, you know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Yeah, totally. Yeah, like what gives you the r the distinguished no longer like a breakout author, no longer a new to the scene? Is it that
Keith Rosson: Right, right, right. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: like magical, well it's a New York Times bestselling. It's a y I mean, like what
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: is the it's been adapted into a movie. When does that transition happen?
Keith Rosson: Right. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: nobody knows, I think, is the answer. case by case, yeah. You've
Keith Rosson: Yeah, case by case. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: described yourself as a panther. We like we love to talk about I love writing craft. I love the the idea
Keith Rosson: Nice. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: or the difference between like our outliners, our planners, and our panters. and pantsing, first of all, it stresses me out, just like thinking about the way that that must work for you. And then the rewriting, you know, I think I read somewhere that you'll rewrite a novel cover to cover four or five times because of
Keith Rosson: I'm doing it right now. Yep.
Rachel Redd: that. Have you ever thought I should outline this.
Keith Rosson: You know, I I have tried it so many times and it is to me, I know a number of people it really works for. I it it robs all the wonder and the like,
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: what if I did this? And that magic of like when the writing's going well, the next scene and the next conflict and all that reveals itself. And like, why would
Rachel Redd: Hmm.
Keith Rosson: I rob myself of that? That's like the stuff I get high off of, you know.
Rachel Redd: Okay. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: is that sense
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: of like surprising myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Rachel Redd: Interesting. So it's the discovery along the way that you're really locked in for. Interesting. Yeah. so then it just requires an immense amount of rewrite on the back end. Because you're like, wait, that doesn't make sense.
Keith Rosson: every you know it's so here's where I get to talk like really blow up my editor who is just fantastic. so my editor
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: is Caitlin McKenna at Random House and so Daniel Krauss won the Pulitzer for Angel Down and then Tori Peters was a a finalist for it for Stag Dance and my editor also edited that book. And so like
Rachel Redd: wow.
Keith Rosson: she is so goddamn good. And it's like I I'm like terrified of of leaving Random House at some point because I won't have her like editorship, you know, because she is just so
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: good. And a lot of times she is just like, This isn't working. Here's some ideas and
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: will just give me like a ten page document about what's working and what's not, and then be like, Go forth, young man.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: And fix this, you know what I mean? And almost every time it requires significant rewrites, and the
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: book is always better for it.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. God, we love an editor. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, she's so good.
Rachel Redd: They don't get enough money or or credit, to be to be fair.
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: yeah, I've met some amazing editors. so do you enjoy then the rewriting and the recrafting process as well? 'Cause I know some
Keith Rosson: I have
Rachel Redd: writers who are like, I try to figure everything out because rewriting makes me wanna throw something at a wall.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, there are those lunatics. Like I I've heard that Colson Whitehead just he just very carefully writes like four pages a day and then he's just done. And I'm like, I don't
Rachel Redd: Yah Wow
Keith Rosson: know how in God's name you do that. You know, that's just not how I work.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: and so there's when I get those that ten page document back, there's about a day of like just the most morose, you know, Charlie Brown like walking around with, you know, sa a sad cloud over him. And then I just get to work, you know, and like I kind
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: of distill that ten page document into two pages of bullet points of
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: this is what needs to be fixed, you know, these are the new scenes that need to be inserted, this is we gotta get rid of this character, all that shit. And then my brain just starts working in repair mode, you know. and
Rachel Redd: Hmm. Interesting.
Keith Rosson: this new one that I'm working on right now is a little bit different because I'd say literally eighty percent of it is being rewritten and
Rachel Redd: Wow.
Keith Rosson: way fast. And so fingers crossed. I'm doing a lot of late nights and yeah. But it's I
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: I again I love all of this shit. It's so fun
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and I love the challenge of it.
Rachel Redd: That's so that's great. Do you feel like you can still find like that discover like the the the sense of discovery that you love even in a rewrite? Does do you still connect with that? Yeah.
Keith Rosson: Well yeah, 'cause I'm rewriting the goddamn thing, so all these all these characters are like, you're totally new to me now. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Interesting. Yeah. I just didn't know if it changed because now you kinda know where you're going and so
Keith Rosson: Right.
Rachel Redd: if it feels more like a slog or if it's still just like that like wonder that
Keith Rosson: You know, I mean it's it's a case by case basis and some of the rewrites, like I did I wrote Feverhouse and then I I wrote the sequel to it, The Devil by Name, and I really tried to keep the like kind of crime noir pace and and keep it located in Portland. And it just fell flat, you know, and like I knew it when I sent it in. and my editor can you know, reaffirmed that. And so that was one where it was like, I have to go a lot bigger in scope and add characters and it was like an
Rachel Redd: Sure.
Keith Rosson: entirely different book.
Rachel Redd: Crazy.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: That's awesome. Do you feel like at this point then you've del, I guess, developed a really good sense of like intuition? Like I know when something's working and when it's not. Here you are, 10 books
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: on your 10th. Like you're like, I know that this is gonna need some work. I'm gonna, I'm gonna plow on, but I know this isn't working. Or like this, this is this is the sweet spot. Like this is really doing what I want.
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Like I vacillate you know, there are times where it's like, okay, this is not quite as tight as it could be. but also like I don't know, there's for one, writing under a deadline is so different than just writing for fun. You know what I mean? You gotta
Rachel Redd: Yeah, sure.
Keith Rosson: get shit in. And that's it's one of the things about writing that has kind of changed for me and that is weird, is that that joy of discovery is tempered with the practicalities of being a working writer, you know?
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and all of the like additional stuff you have to do with like promotion and events and all that. And like
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so y you're more aware of of things in the periphery, you know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: while you're writing stuff. But it's there's still like I know when the writing's going well because I those new scenes are revealing themselves to me. And when I get stuck
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and I'm like, I don't know what to hap what's gonna happen here, it means I have to go back and figure out where I went south, you know.
Rachel Redd: Interesting. Crazy. That's so fascinating. I would be terrible at that.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, there's when when I re when things are going well, I just make little notes of like, okay, next scene, next scene, next scene. You know what I mean? but
Rachel Redd: Hm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: that's as far as like outlining as I get.
Rachel Redd: Crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a planner and pretty type A and an eldest daughter, so I would just be like, ugh like what am I doing here? And
Keith Rosson: Totally. Yeah, right. And that works for tons of people, yeah.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. all right, so let's talk about your books now. that we've talked about how you get there. I just finished Fever House and like yesterday, like in preparation for this. I was hoping to get both done. This month has been crazy, but I did finish Feverhouse. Holy shit. what a non stop relentless battering emotionally and physically
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: in in that book. So this is okay, so so feverhouse, you've done Smoke City, and your debut. Remind me of the debut's name.
Keith Rosson: The mercy of the tide.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, Mercy of the Tide. And then but you had you also done the short story collection?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, so it was Mercy,
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: Smoke City, Road Seven and Folk Songs for Trauma Surgeons.
Rachel Redd: Okay. And then you jump into Fever House. And you said at the top of the show that you feel like it was kind of your first horror novel.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: and so like how does this evolution or this the idea of this, I mean, you're like, I know what I'll do. I'll take amputated
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: parts of Satan, of the devil, and I'll
Keith Rosson: That's totally it, yeah. It's
Rachel Redd: make them turn people into monsters. Like that's
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: kind of like the f like the you know, for people who haven't read, no spoilers, but that's kind of what's happening. In this book in this duology.
Keith Rosson: Right. Yeah, so like Smoke City had you know, it had ghosts in it and Mer
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: Mercy of the Tide had a monster in it and everything. But I had had some challenges with my agent about like, you know, my career and where things were going and he was very reluctant to kinda shop the story collection around 'cause, you know, they don't make any money. and so he was a great agent, but I just felt like we weren't quite gelling, you know? And so I fired him, which is always a scary thing.
Rachel Redd: Sure.
Keith Rosson: and so I did road seven and folk songs with Meerkat with No Agent. And then
Rachel Redd: Wow.
Keith Rosson: tried to I tried to write like a couple things. Like it tried to write a straight crime novel. and I just I can't do literary fiction or or genre fiction anymore without putting like a fucking ghost robot or something in it. You know, there's gotta be something weird in it.
Rachel Redd: Sure.
Keith Rosson: And so I started writing Fever House based off of two characters, Hutch and Tim, from this crime novel. And so the first twenty
Rachel Redd: Mm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: pages before they find the hand in the refrigerator are taken almost word for word from a crime novel I'd started. and then I was just like I had this image of like a severed hand in a in an old, you know, cracked leather doctor bag.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and I just started writing from that and it I started it in twenty twenty, right when everything got shut down. And my girlfriend and I had fostered and then adopted two little girls like three weeks before COVID shut the state down.
Rachel Redd: Wow.
Keith Rosson: And so it was and all the the George Floyd protests happened that summer and Portland was very
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: active in that. And And so we you know, we would go to a protest or we would, you know, we were right next to the police union where a lot of protests were happening. And so it was just like couldn't go outside and then there were flashbangs everywhere and just like people busted down our fence trying to escape the cops and it was and we
Rachel Redd: Dang.
Keith Rosson: we couldn't leave and the kids were very highly traumatized and were like, Who the hell are you? And now why can't we leave? You know what I mean? And it was just
Rachel Redd: Hm, right, right.
Keith Rosson: this kind of tinder box of claustrophobia and tension and feverhouse was really my gateway to just escaping. And I think a lot of that fury and that sense of containment is in that book.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Wait, how old were these girls that you adopted? so they were little.
Keith Rosson: two and three. There were very little, yeah.
Rachel Redd: Wow. Crazy. What
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: a fascinating backstory to
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: like when you're describing that situation, I'm like, I can imagine you, probably at all hours of the night, furiously trying to get all of this inside of your life into like t to kind of like flu flesh it out or or or or almost like expunge it in a way into
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: this book 'cause it feels very furious, like a tinder,
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: like at any point the whole thing is gonna implode, is kind of the tension of the book.
Keith Rosson: It it really Yeah, it really did feel like I was throwing myself a life preserver, you know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. And did you know it was gonna be a duology? Like did you w okay. Okay.
Keith Rosson: No, that's that's the amazing thing. I love Paul Tremblay's shit so much where his his ambiguity and his endings where you're just like, Yes,
Rachel Redd: Yes.
Keith Rosson: but definitively tell me what happened. And he never does. You know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Yeah, a hundred percent he never does.
Keith Rosson: He never does. And so I when I wrote Feverhouse, I had no plans for a for a sequel whatsoever. and so
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: I shopped Chopped it around and this time maybe got like twenty-five rejections and got a couple offers from agents for the
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: first time. So like multiple offers for reper representation. And I went with Chad Lobel at Jank Clown Nesbitt, who's like the most insane, amazing agent ever. And he
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: had a list of like, okay, so here's six editors and I'm gonna send it out on Thursday and then on Monday we're gonna send it out wide. But I just want these people to get an early look. And Caitlin McKenna at Random House the next day writes, my god, is there a sequel? And that was on Friday. And then over the weekend she has her team read it. And on Monday she's like, I wanna have a talk with this guy. And
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so on Tuesday she and I had a she called me. And She says two things. I I don't call authors and talk to them unless I'm willing to make an offer. It's just too heartbreaking otherwise. And I was like,
Rachel Redd: Awesome. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: my God, my life is changing in this exact moment. I'm thinking that, you know? And then she's
Rachel Redd: Yeah, sure.
Keith Rosson: like, I have two requests, and you can say no to both of them if you want. Would you be willing to add thirty thousand words to Feverhouse? Which is such
Rachel Redd: Hm.
Keith Rosson: a rarity. You never get that, you know? And
Rachel Redd: Right. Yeah. It's usually like take thirty thousand words out.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, exactly. And so she was like, just to add like to the part of the fever house itself when things really get cooking, you know? And then she was like, And would you write a sequel? And I was like, dude, I will fucking write dog food commercials for you if you want, because you just changed my life. You know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Yeah,
Keith Rosson: And so there was
Rachel Redd: yeah,
Keith Rosson: no plan to do it, but it was kind of at my editor's request. And
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so that was a a long road in and of itself. But like that book is Devil by Name is really polarizing because a lot of people are like,
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: it doesn't match the tone of Feverhouse. And then
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: other people are like, it's even better. And so
Rachel Redd: Right.
Keith Rosson: I'm really proud of it. and it was a hard maybe the hardest book to write.
Rachel Redd: Okay. Just because you started off trying to match the vibe of Fever House and and and and self proclaimed earlier said that that didn't really work and so you had to make the scope bigger. Is that what made it difficult?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, and that I had just left so many kind of balls up in the air with Feverhouse that I had to, you know, make sure I caught them all.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah, I still need to read it. So now now I'm gonna have all this insight, which will make it better. That's my favorite thing. I'll be like, yeah, this is supposed to be this way. He probably
Keith Rosson: Right, right, totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: pants this section and it feels like it. I'll know, I'll know all the stuff.
Keith Rosson: Ha there you go, totally. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: one of my favorite pieces of Fever House was that every character, and there are so fucking many, felt like their own protagonists. Like they all had like main character energy, as the kids say. I don't. I'm too old to say that. was it difficult to juggle so many storylines and somehow still maintain they all felt like none of them really felt like side characters? They all felt like this story was their story.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, I don't know if that's like, I think Feverhouse was kind of like everything just gelled in a way that I don't know if I'll ever get it that way. It was just such this
Rachel Redd: Hm.
Keith Rosson: like insane mishmash of all these interests, you know, and I feel like I kind of like sank like four books worth of like plots and and interests and things that I'm into in one book. you know, but it
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: happened really organically and like was not it was challenging for sure, but like the it's one of those rare ones where the first version and the twelfth version are are reasonably close, you know.
Rachel Redd: Huh, yeah. Yeah, there's just like so many good, strong characters.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: I was like, you could write like a short story collection where they all had their own. I that's basically what it kinda was, right? They like
Keith Rosson: Right. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: obviously but all melded in the same point in time, being affected by the same mechanism. But it really like I wanted more and from all of them. Like I could
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: have more of all of them. So I'm I'm hoping at least some of them. are in the sequel. He's like, actually none of them are, so be disappointed early.
Keith Rosson: mean yeah that's the thing man like the yeah I mean you'll probably be a little bummed at at some of the some of the folks and
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: that's I I love that like unflinching willingness to kill off a main character in the middle of a book. Like, you know? Yeah.
Rachel Redd: me too. That's like one of my favorite things, to be fair. Yeah. Yeah. That's very George R. Martin of you.
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: you know, he loves that as well. as the
Keith Rosson: Right.
Rachel Redd: whole world found out together when we were watching. Yeah. Interesting. So w is that really what it was? Like your your sensibilities are just like this person has to die now. And people be mad, but like that's what the story requires. You just that's very punk rock of you. It's very metal.
Keith Rosson: Yeah. I mean I I like what better way to like up the stakes? You know what I mean? Like I'm
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Totally.
Keith Rosson: not I'm not precious about any of this stuff. And that's why like,
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: you know, as a writer you have to like tow that line between believing in the work and also being receptive to criticism and seeing, you know, what resonates and what doesn't. And like, you know, there's with every single book You know, my editor or my agent have pointed out like, do you really want to do this person this way? Or, you know,
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: so I'm actually having somebody live in this book that I'm writing right now that does die in the middle of the book. And so I can go both ways, you know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. all right, so fever, and I'm sure the second, though obviously I haven't read it yet, The Devil by Name, featured these like truly horrifying imagery, very violent, over the top people getting sh you know, shot in the face, right, left, center.
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: but it never feels like brutality for the sake of it. Like the horror doesn't feel like it's put in for shock value, which is fine, but not my favorite thing as a reader. I really like it to be earned. so how do you decide when a scene has earned its brutality?
Keith Rosson: That's such a great question. And I I this is where, you know, you're talking about Chuck Tingle and the dude has like such a well informed like view of of his writing and his place, you know, like where he fits.
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: And like a lot of this shit is like it's it happens internally, you know? And it's like you just
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: know from writing and writing and writing and writing what is gonna land. And again it comes down to surprising yourself. like we talked about. I think a lot
Rachel Redd: Hm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: of times it's just like, yes, that will like I can see where I go from there if this person gets, you know, ended. And all the
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: ripple effects that are gonna happen from that.
Rachel Redd: Sure.
Keith Rosson: I don't know. and as far as the violence itself goes, like, that shit's kinda fun to write. I gotta gotta be honest, you know? and to just
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I I I bet it's therapeutic.
Keith Rosson: And just to make it like, this is gonna sick some people out, you know what I mean? but I do
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah. Ye like that.
Keith Rosson: appreciate your like that it's not just like, let's have a torture scene, just to have a torture scene. Like I'm not down
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: with that shit, you know?
Rachel Redd: Sure. Yeah. No, it definitely needs to be earned. and it needs to feel like in character and it needs to progress the story
Keith Rosson: Okay.
Rachel Redd: and it needs to do something other than just like be gross. Otherwise,
Keith Rosson: Right.
Rachel Redd: honestly, it's boring. That's the the biggest problem
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally.
Rachel Redd: is not that it's just gross for the sake like I all I do is read horror, man. Like there are very few things that gross me out anymore. But like, and I have kids. So, you know, it's just like this is where I live. But it it slows the pacing down for me re as a reader if it isn't like just really earned or or isn't
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: set up to be like, okay, this is gonna be a slasher. I'm gonna go into
Keith Rosson: Mm.
Rachel Redd: this novel, slasher novel. I know there's gonna be like seven really creative, interesting deaths that pr that are like outrageous, but I'm here for that 'cause that's what the the vibe of this is. So I just however you earn it, I do think it needs to be Otherwise, yeah, it's just it slows the story down. It it it yanks you out as a reader and then you're like, I'm not invested in this. I don't care about these characters
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: being brutally attacked. and that's a real bummer. D have you ever gone too far and your amazing editor? Has she been like, Okay, I think maybe or or
Keith Rosson: No.
Rachel Redd: or she like, take it, go there all the way.
Keith Rosson: She's really good because she will do this thing where she's like, and to kind of reinforce what we were talking about, I also think that a lot of times violence is like fast. You know what I mean? It doesn't like I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna do to you for pages and pages and pag it's like it happens fast and then there's the repercussion
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and the aftermath of it. But it's generally just like eye blink quick and then you're dealing with what happens after, you know?
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: And she'll just be like, Okay, so what are the visual and emotional takeaways of this book? Like, what
Rachel Redd: Hm.
Keith Rosson: are the visuals that you want people to remember in this book and make them good? Yeah, and she's like, You get
Rachel Redd: that's a great question. I love that.
Keith Rosson: like three or four, so what are they gonna be? You know? So I can tell you what
Rachel Redd: Mm. Huh. Yeah, that's amazing.
Keith Rosson: they were in Devil by Name, but that'd be spoilery, you know what I mean?
Rachel Redd: No, you yeah, don't and anyone else who has don't don't spoil it. Well, I'll read it and then I'll just DM you. And I'll be like, okay, now tell me what they were, please.
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Yeah, totally. And just be like, was this one of them? Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Can I let me see if I can pick out. Let me I love a good challenge.
Keith Rosson: Yep. Totally.
Rachel Redd: okay, so Coffin Moon. Obviously we have talk about this. This this novel blew my mind. Everybody who knows
Keith Rosson: Thank you.
Rachel Redd: me and has ever spent five seconds talking to me about books knows that Coffin Moon is one of my favorite books. I read this year. I I was late to the game because I didn't read it last year, but I I just I just fucking love it, man. It's so good. there's so
Keith Rosson: Thank you so much.
Rachel Redd: much in it and it is different now having Red Fever house.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Obviously it's a v it's got a very different vibe. But some like you know, I guess we'll call them like Keithisms as well. Like there's definitely it's still your voice, but
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: a k kind of a different emotional take. so what were I always like to know like thematically when you went into this book, because you definitely write characters very honestly. They're very they have multitudes of shades and colors, they're very dynamic. and they're usually, like I said in your intro, they're like they're like broken people struggling to kind of just find some like semblance of control or peace or happiness or Redemption. so what were the questions that you the thematic questions that you went into Coffin Moon with? Like what were you digesting and exploring as a writer?
Keith Rosson: You know, that's a really good question and makes me sound smarter than I am, honestly. because I'm like essentially like what
Rachel Redd: Okay. You're like, I don't know.
Keith Rosson: what I do is I take a a horror trope and I just spin it, you know, and so Feverhouse is zombies,
Rachel Redd: Mm. Yeah. Yep.
Keith Rosson: Coffin Moon's vampire, Crone is witches, you know, and my whole take as a writer is essentially if I can convince you that these people are real or possibly could possibly exist, I can do whatever idiotic plot I wanna do. Cause you're
Rachel Redd: Hm.
Keith Rosson: in you're along for the ride, you know, if
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: I can convince you of their possible realness.
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so yeah, that's really that's really it. And and to me like Can I can we hit pause for one second? This light thing is driving me nuts. Sorry. I'm supposed to be supposed
Rachel Redd: Sure. yeah. No, you're totally fine.
Keith Rosson: to be hanging and it keeps sliding down. Alright, there we go. Now then, back to
Rachel Redd: You got it? Okay. Yeah, now back to
Keith Rosson: yeah, being a smart guy. thematically, it's really just I knew that it was I wanted it to be a real character driven, slowburn, morose, grief laden. thing and I had I had writ just read True Grit and I was just like
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: what about a kind of pseudo-western revenge story?
Rachel Redd: Ya
Keith Rosson: and that was really it and I wanted to set it in the 70s
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: for one because technologically you know the vampires in Coffin Moon get real warped and stuff when you see them in a mirror and a camera and like that would just be impossible to write nowadays.
Rachel Redd: Sure. Very difficult, yeah.
Keith Rosson: And all of the men in my life growing up, that Vietnam had kind of been their conflict, you know? And so
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: I felt a lot more comfortable writing about that and its kind of effects on men of that generation
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: than versus like Iraq or Afghanistan or something more contemporary where it's like, there are dudes doing amazing fiction and that's not my field to run around in, you know.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. I loved the seventies time setting. I was I was it was a vibe. I was there for all of that. It's so funny that you had read True Grip before this, before you wrote that book because me and my friend Lauren, Paberbeck Bish online, if you don't know, she's amazing. Everybody follow her. She was just telling me that you should write a horror western book. And I was like, yeah, I I would fuck with that. Like a full cowboy,
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally.
Rachel Redd: like r I don't know if you've like read Red Rabbit by Alex, I think it's Grecian or either of those.
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: Like just like some I've your voice and your writing chops, like I feel like that it would suit. Like we we need some like Western zombies or ghouls.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, like that and like Between Two Fires, Christopher Buellman's like where it's like
Rachel Redd: God, yeah.
Keith Rosson: horror stuff like outside of contemporary. It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's fantastic.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. That's like medieval medieval horror, I think, is like kinda what that they label that. I know. It's so fun. And it there's
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: just not enough of it. Like
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: it is an underserved, like I guess, sub genre. It's so good. But you definitely
Keith Rosson: Yeah, I agree.
Rachel Redd: so when you write your horror western novel, you can just give me some you can just you can just shout me out. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: You're like Rachel said and I said, Yeah, you're right. I do that is a lane
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm. There you go.
Rachel Redd: I could live in. It's so good. okay, so you were talking about the way that you develop characters and and I'm I'm so fascinated by this because I do think I mean in both books, but in very different ways, you have this very deep, very well s like crafted character development, but Coffin Moon especially, and relationally, the the kind of found family aspect of that book. But it's also paired really nicely with like propulsive pacing. Like it's never s
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: you you called it a slow burn, which is hilarious. Because like like shit happens a lot. Like a lot of action is happening. Like there's movement constantly. I guess it's more slow burn than feverhouse, which is like a battering ram of pacing, but it still didn't I I don't know if I would describe it necessarily that way. So how do you
Keith Rosson: I appreciate that. Thank you.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, of course. How do you like balance you know, continuing to keep the story moving, the pacing that is so important to storytelling, that's so important to keep readers engaged. a and and make these characters feel really lived in and like three dimensional
Keith Rosson: Right.
Rachel Redd: so that we care about them when the pacing, you know, hits the fans, so to speak, and shit goes awry.
Keith Rosson: I love that. Yeah. When the pacing hits the fan. you
Rachel Redd: Yes.
Keith Rosson: know, I I have a tendency to want to overshare with my characters and be like,
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: and when he was nine, he skinned his knee and he hates burrito, you know? And so it
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: becomes a like a lot of times I'll have to cut. And so a novel will be like a hundred and twenty thousand words and it's all this backstory and blah blah blah and this
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: minutia. And then I have to carve away stuff. So it's never like that's why the feverhouse thing was such a trip for my editor to be like, add even more, you know.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: but most of the time it's like I I'm trying to teach myself about these people, you know, and to convince
Rachel Redd: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: myself that they're like passably, like believably human. And so That kind of comes first and then but it's again, it's all internal and it's just like, okay, well that will serve this, will serve this, will serve this, and it's all these
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: like when I get like compliments about plot, it is such a big compliment because at my core I wanna I wanna dink around in that like genre like thriller kind of world. Like it'd be so fun, you know what I mean? But I just can't
Rachel Redd: Hm Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: not have like a monster ninja in my stuff. So yeah, totally. You gotta keep
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. Well I like monster ninjas, so yeah.
Keith Rosson: yourself entertained. But like that propulsiveness of plot is like, it's always present.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I think you're doing it really well. I'm
Keith Rosson: Thank you.
Rachel Redd: a fan. Yeah, of course. and you said which is which is great, 'cause I was asking, I was gonna ask, that there was an intentional shift, it sounds like, from Fever House to Coffin Moon, where you where there it is more character focused i in the in the sense that well, first of all there's way less characters. in Coffin Moon and you r
Keith Rosson: Yeah, and that was really intentional.
Rachel Redd: yeah and you really have like a protagonist and
Keith Rosson: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: the best antagonist. I that will he
Keith Rosson: Yeah, right on.
Rachel Redd: he will be my favorite. Right now, I guess we're only seven months in, there's time. But right now, that vampire he is terrible and we love him for that.
Keith Rosson: right on. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: And also yeah, anyways, if you haven't read Coffin Moon, this is your pitch to read Coffin Moon. But yeah, so you really focused on these two. You obviously had side characters that were incredibly well developed. but that so that was intentional to really focus in on kind of a smaller cast of characters, but really go deep with them, which I think you did.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, and I I I I tend to vacillate between like kind of taking a break. So like after Feverhouse, there was like there's like seven or eight main characters in that book, you know? At least six. And so
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. At least yeah.
Keith Rosson: I was gonna I just wanted to be like, okay, I'm gonna write a a way simpler book character wise. And like one of these days, man, I'm gonna write a book where it's just the POV of one character. Like that is a goal
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: of mine.
Rachel Redd: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: I'm not even close to it yet. I don't know how to do that. You know what I mean? But one of these days I want to do that. But with Coffin Moon, I was just like I am after two books of like
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: these massive overarching, you know, all these millions of plot points you had to tie together and all these characters, I just wanna keep it real simple and it's just like three or four people, revenge, chase, murder, death, boom.
Rachel Redd: Vampires. And that's it. And that's that. Blood. gross. Perfect. That's it actually that should be the chould've been the tagline for for the book.
Keith Rosson: Yeah, blood. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Just
Rachel Redd: If that's what you're looking for, that's what Kafa Moon is.
Keith Rosson: Thirty six point type on the cover. Boom.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, exactly. so good. I l I I like both of them. I like the variety. I think it's really fun as a reader and a fan of just like literature in general and books to to follow an author over the course of many moons and see the way that their writing develops, the way their storytelling preferences change, the way they like the the the way their voice alters. It's like such a interesting thing to get to be a part of because like before you put it on a page, it like existed in the ether for only you and then it became something everyone gets to engage with. It's just like such a fascinating I don't know. Art is just like cool. It's just like so cool.
Keith Rosson: It's it's like alchemy, dude. It's like magic, you know what I mean? It's
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: and especially when a book is good, you're just like, I am transported. Like it's electrifying, you know?
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I'm just I live for those moments. And everyone I don't I get a lot of criticism for not being a tough enough critic because I'm too nice. Like I don't really you know, I d I I I I don't know why that's a cr like criticism of me, but it's fine. I'll I'll take it in stride. But like I just really love books. You know, so it's like not
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Redd: super hard to I just love it. I just think it's so amazing. And so like all those people are just sad. But I'm not sad, so There you go.
Keith Rosson: There you go.
Rachel Redd: your books often ask often deal with and ask the questions of whether or not damaged people can find redemption. I think that's kind of you know, you're you're not dealing with cookie cutter, goody to shoe, you know, kind of like altruistic. characters usually they are broken. Do you feel like that is something you are intentional about or is it just the kind of character you like to write and so it just keeps showing back?
Keith Rosson: You know, there's this writer, he's kind of a a southern satirist, named George Singleton. And he writes like
Rachel Redd: Okay.
Keith Rosson: so many he's written a dozen short story collections. Funniest dude ever. And he wrote a thing he talked about how like if you have to write twenty stories about a fly fisherman going through a divorce, like just do it, you know? and that's that's where the muse is, you know, that's where your interest is.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: And to me, like that notion of of redemption is maybe the key point in my work. That
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: possibility that people can change or that there is movement within us to become more than than we are, you know? And I I think that for one, the brokenness, like there's so many avenues inside people that you can move around in as a writer that it's like I don't even necessarily see them as broken. I just see them as like human, you know.
Rachel Redd: Hm, yeah.
Keith Rosson: and it does interest me, you know, like addiction interests me, violence interests
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: me, notions of found family, or family you who you've turned away from interest me, you know. And
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yep.
Keith Rosson: so it's it's kind of just like I I feel like in a way I'm telling the same story again and again and again. Cause this is my fly fisherman phase, you know, and
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: my divorce phase. I'm just I'm tilling the same ground just in different ways.
Rachel Redd: that's so interesting. why is that you think that that is the place that you're tilling? Is it your
Keith Rosson: I mean that's
Rachel Redd: own humanity that you're like dealing with? Yeah, yeah.
Keith Rosson: fully. fully. Yeah. It's like since Fever House, like all these books are about the h the terror of being a shitty dad. That's really
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: like Crone is so much about that fear of like, am I gonna fuck up?
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: this new book I'm working on is very much about that. And so it's it's all really like deep id internal shit that like
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: just comes out, you know.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Your own fears that end up rising to the surface and working their way in to
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally. And I think that's why people can recognize it because they're like, I kinda I feel that, you know.
Rachel Redd: Sure. Yeah. I think maybe I shouldn't speak for all parents, 'cause obviously that's overreaching, but I think it is just the the plight, the burden of parenthood to feel like you're gonna fuck up. Like I just think
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: no matter how where you are, whether you know, you're divorced, you're together, s you know, single parenting, multi ha multi generational home living like many kids, one kid, like l had kids early, had kids late. Like I just think
Keith Rosson: Totally.
Rachel Redd: like everybody feels like, my gosh, like they're gonna have to go to therapy because of me. Like and maybe and to be fair, because
Keith Rosson: Right. Totally.
Rachel Redd: I would say I had pretty great parents, I and but I've been to therapy for sure. Like I think maybe that's just the only path, Keith. I think ever like maybe it
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally.
Rachel Redd: is just the road. Like our parents just send us to therapy. No matter even though they're just doing their best. And then we become
Keith Rosson: Yeah, right. Yeah. Yep.
Rachel Redd: parents and we recognize Okay. We are just doing our best and and that's not true for everyone 'cause obviously there are terrible parents out there, but I think in general it is just it is the burden of being a parent.
Keith Rosson: Right. Yeah. Yeah, and so that's that's the the like that's the big one of the big ones that I find myself coming back to is that notion of like
Rachel Redd: Interesting.
Keith Rosson: familial interconnectedness and failing as a parent or or
Rachel Redd: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Keith Rosson: as a a son even, you know? and it gets into real
Rachel Redd: Yeah, yeah. I yeah, I can Yeah, yeah, I can see the the legs of that in both Fever House and Coffin Moon in b in both in both regards. Especially like
Keith Rosson: Yeah. Right.
Rachel Redd: the father, daughter or like son-mother relationship that, you know, obviously
Keith Rosson: Totally.
Rachel Redd: you're speaking to. which is that's great. I mean, yeah, I'm I'm here for it. I'm here for all of your therapy on the page. So just keep writing it. It's awesome. All right, so we're
Keith Rosson: Yeah, totally. There you go. Yep.
Rachel Redd: we're wrapping up here. We gotta talk about what's coming next. So you've got Crone. killer cover, by the way. Such a good cover. I love it.
Keith Rosson: I know. My first two Random House books, Fever House and Devil, Ella Latham did them and she just nailed it. And then
Rachel Redd: Okay. Yeah, so good.
Keith Rosson: Arushi Manon did Crone and Coffin Moon and it's just, my god, I'm so lucky. They are
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: so good.
Rachel Redd: Yeah, you have good you have some good covers that I I just think Crone is so good. comes out September twenty second. so people can pre order it now. In case I haven't talked about this enough, pre orders make a massive difference. We always encourage pre orders. Please it signals to all the right people that a book is yeah, it's just w like worth stocking, worth ha making extra orders. So if you can pre-order, please pre-order. And if you want the Girl Math, when you pre-order, you don't pay for it yet. So you don't have to pay for it till you
Keith Rosson: There you go. Right on.
Rachel Redd: can pre-order it and then you can pay in September Girl Math. So it's free, basically. what can we expect from Crone? Like what can you give us without any spoilers?
Keith Rosson: I mean, talk about like sad dad. It's some sad dad shit for sure. so
Rachel Redd: Okay. With witches.
Keith Rosson: and with witches and I mean it's not to get too morose, but the two kind of formative things for it were it's essentially a a guy whose daughter goes missing. She gets in a van one night hitchhiking and goes missing and
Rachel Redd: god.
Keith Rosson: then the story starts thirteen years later. And he through his like dis trying to discover what happened to her has become indebted to this biker gang and is kind of their enforcer. And when the head of the biker gang's son is found murdered and in a weird ritualistic way, the biker gang asks this guy, who is an ex detective who lost his job while trying to find his daughter. To kind of re-instigate his detective skills to find out
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: what happened. And he's like, if you find out who killed my son, then you're out of you're out from under this debt. And so
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: it starts this process, and it was loosely inspired by a friend of mine when she was fifteen, went her and her friend went hitchhiking on 101 and disappeared. And then they got
Rachel Redd: gosh.
Keith Rosson: discovered two weeks later in some brush on a logging road a couple miles off of the highway. and the killer has never been found. And it's it's been over thirty years at this point. And it's just
Rachel Redd: God.
Keith Rosson: snagged at me for so long to the point where I like hit up the cold case detective and tried to get, you know, information from him and they were justifiably not forthcoming whatsoever. But like I've tried to write about
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: it in a nonfiction way and it just hasn't landed. And so
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: doing this kind of seemed to exume, but also like give some closure to that like thing inside me that just has been bugged relentlessly for the past couple decades. So yeah. Fun times, fun times. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Crazy. That's awesome. Fun times. So it's a really uplifting, heartfelt book. Probably make you cry.
Keith Rosson: Yeah. It's I mean, it makes Crone look like, you know, happy days, I guess. So Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Mm. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I'm I'm so excited for that. I need to like we'll check on my net galley. I requested it. So I'm just like, come on, net galley. Come on. But I pre ordered it as well because I like to I
Keith Rosson: There you go. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Nice, thank you.
Rachel Redd: like to live what I preach as much as I can.
Keith Rosson: Yeah.
Rachel Redd: that's s so here you are now, ten ten years, right? You've been doing this now, it sounds like ten novels, ten years. do you f for the for the our final kind of question or you know, I know that th this is like the dreaded question, but everybody always wants to know. And I get flack when I don't kind of at least touch on it. Like, what is the advice that you give to somebody who is like, Okay, I wanna I wanna have I wanna be saying one day, this is my tenth book, ten years in. you know, whether that's r the writing, whether that's pertain to just like how you how you keep doing it over and over and over, how you keep yourself motivated, like What w what do you say to people who ask how how'd you do it for ten years? And how do I?
Keith Rosson: Yeah, I mean and my experience is only my experience, you know? And so it it might not fit anyone else, but whole notion of like I want to have written, but I don't want to write, is like very odd to me, you know? And like I
Rachel Redd: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: love the process. Even when I'm stuck, I love the process. And this is the best job on earth, you know. And even when I wasn't making money out of I was still doing it 'cause I just love it. And so it's like, if you don't find joy in it, maybe find the thing that gives you joy, you know? Like not
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah.
Keith Rosson: everybody has to do this. And if it's not fulfilling to you and meaningful to you, then do something that is, you know? But if you do find joy in it, then just be fucking ferocious with it. And Be willing to take what works and then discard the rest as far as criticism goes, and just you're gonna get so many no's. And so just kind of anure yourself to that and get ready
Rachel Redd: Mm.
Keith Rosson: for it and and keep moving. You know,
Rachel Redd: Yeah.
Keith Rosson: like I said, I I almost had like a hundred no's from agents before I got a yes. And it's like that's what you need is just one yes.
Rachel Redd: Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's good advice. Keith, this was so much fun. Thank you for being here.
Keith Rosson: dude, thank you so much. You are such a great interviewer. I really, really, really appreciate it. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: thanks. I yeah, I'm such a fan of yours. I love the like the kind of Western punk rock motif voice that you bring. I like the the heavy
Keith Rosson: Right on.
Rachel Redd: metal dad vibes that are in your work. It's it's so good. It I really I love
Keith Rosson: Yeah. There we go. Right on. Thank you.
Rachel Redd: it and I think it makes you stand apart and I'm like pumped for more. So just keep just keep doing it.
Keith Rosson: Right on, thank you. Yeah.
Rachel Redd: Awesome. and to the listeners, make sure you pre-order Crone. I'm gonna say it one more time. Pre orders make a big difference, comes out September twenty-second. and as always, thank you so much for being here. You know I love you. I'm so appreciative. You could be anywhere, but you're here, and for that, we're really grateful. I'll see you next week. Same time, same place.