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[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome to Take The Black, you're one and only a fantasy sci-fi podcast that dives deep into the world of Westeros, the works of George R. Martin, United of the Seven Kingdoms, House of the Dragon, of
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, Game of Thrones, that show and all the rest of that stuff, and today Fire and Blood and the World of Ice and Fire as well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I am one of your host Daniel Roman, the editor of Winter is coming.net, and I'm psyched as always to be joined by my co-host Mark Nettles of House of Nettles.
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[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing, Mark?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing good!
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, some days I wake up, and I think I can name all the Targaryen monarchs in order.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I believe I can't, am I gonna do that right now?
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, that'll be silly pants or me, but I think I can't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever tried?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I did it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did you do it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think I could.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think I did do it actually.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think I did it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just finished a reread of fire and blood literally two days ago and then looked at the chart in the back of it because there's a chart of all of them and I impressed myself by naming them all 20 minutes later and that's about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then this morning I was trying to think of them for this show and I was like, I'm forgetting like five of them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the recent the recent sea helped a lot.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so viewers listeners, welcome, we have a really fun show for you guys today that I've been pretty excited for, which is, we're going to talk about the Targaryen rulers, we're going to dive deep, we're going to name our best, our favorites, who we think was awful for the seven kingdoms, all that kind of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, before we get there, we do have some updates to talk about as we always do just like when there's news and Westeros.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So let's do that so we can get to like the funnest stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but the updates kind of fun too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Mark, did you see the Emmys on Monday or any of it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I saw all the highlights the next day because I'm a elder and needed to go to sleep.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Same, same, yes, I am an elder and need to go to sleep, but also don't really want to bother with a peacock subscription.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I mean, but there's a lot of West Rose stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have any like favorite West Rose thing you saw there?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because night of the seven kingdoms up for outstanding drama series didn't win it, but still feel like a party.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, we got to see two of our Targaryen Queens up on the stage between Emma Darcy and Emily, Emily, Amelia Clark, yeah, and it got to see them speak well, Emily Clark speak in high ballarians, so all the audience going, ooh, and I said this on our course social media pages, did I understand what she said in the moment?
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, but I appreciated the, the ambiance they were giving us and I felt like we was getting a little sneak peek.
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[SPEAKER_02]: into Westeros on the image page.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, um, I love, obviously, I'm a Darry and Amelia Clark presenting that award.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the high Valirian bit was pretty,
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[SPEAKER_01]: fun.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For people who, what she said, David J. Peterson, who did all of the Hyvalierian for the show, all the Dothracky, he's what's called a con-laner, which means he makes up fictional languages.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He did post a translation of it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So he said he was tapped two days before the Emmys to do this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Hyvalierian speech.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it said, it is an honor and a press you all, winners, television and throne that is television on this wonderful evening.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where Bill, you Clarke said in Hyvalierian, kiss your key, your curious.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hahahaha, kiss you didn't have your dual-lingle out, ready to go.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, this onto a lingo, isn't it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best PR this year, but if you do want to learn a little bit of casual dual angle because of the rivalry and that's where you go.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was like the obvious, one of the obvious Westeros highlights, like it's so, it was so nice to hear Amelia Clark speaking high of the theory and again.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I also loved, have you seen the glam bot shot of Dexter Saul Ansel and Peter
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[SPEAKER_01]: where your coffee is holding him and he spins around and they like give the camera a face.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, sir, face, sir, face.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now that was us cool.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's always good to see that they're always having fun.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That he is able to keep it lighthearted with Daxter.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, hey, you're getting international fame right now, but it's guys.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So keep on being a, having a kids outlook on to the world.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Dexter Saul Ansel just turned 12 happy birthday to him.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think literally like yesterday.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, go into the Emmys just before your 12th birthday pretty cool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's so whole some seeing how everyone from across the franchise and just in general,
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[SPEAKER_01]: like the vibes just felt really good and like really good for him.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like he wanted his Emmy wish he said was he wanted to meet Zendaya in person.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And he did.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a picture on the ground online of him with Zendaya and like Tom Holland's there too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But he was there for that man.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Get out of the way Tom.
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[SPEAKER_01]: See like you had a great time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love that for him.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So fun.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he's taking cool pictures with your best buddy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure like a birthday cake for HBO Max and there's a clip floating around of like George Armart and recording him with the birthday cake like
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[SPEAKER_01]: Dude's fantasy TV royalty.
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's like Prince Egg in real life now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of with the other life.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We're all waiting for him to grow up.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we can't wait for you to play egg when he's a slightly young adult.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of king will you be?
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[SPEAKER_01]: We won there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the Emmys were a great time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There was one, one or two small little bits of like actual news that came out of it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So chairman and CEO of HBO and HBO Max content, Kasey Blois, he confirmed that a night of the seven kingdom season two is coming in the first half of 2027.
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[SPEAKER_01]: which he has said before.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So this is, it's being spun as like breaking news, but like he said this, I think it like the last award show he was at.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like Casey Boyz does a lot of press at these sorts of things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But we know it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that's cool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: First half of the year, January to June.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think we all, because they told us to come out yearly and I'm like, okay, well, I know it's going to come out.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes between January and like you said to June, maybe January to April, we're going to get it again.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, happy they are keeping that yearly release schedule.
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[SPEAKER_01]: God.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The people pray for yearly television shows.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think there was, I can't, I wish I were to remember that study, but the people, yeah, even even the scientific studies are telling us people want their TV shows coming out every gosh, aren't you?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you listen watching, if you haven't seen that, there is a study that came out this week that shows that viewership on platforms like Netflix.
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[SPEAKER_01]: actually drops when it's been like two years between seasons.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So now we have the data.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully these studios take the hint more like an idea of the seven kingdoms.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, a weekly release.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's okay that everybody in the world that I'm watching your show, you just have to make a good show for your audience.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the other thing was that boy said he was asked,
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[SPEAKER_01]: has there been any movement on any other Game of Thrones spin-offs and he kind of voiced us so much press that occasionally he kind of like gets snappy with the people interviewing him and it's almost kind of funny.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So his answer to this was like oh you mean aside from the Emmy wedding a night of the Seven Kingdoms and House of the Dragon which just released its third season aside from those?
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[SPEAKER_01]: No no movement.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So like Kudos to him for the joke but also
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[SPEAKER_01]: baby don't uh we're not going to be getting any other spinoffs anytime soon.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that's caused for alarm?
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, yeah, no, not in the syndicados that said to come out in 2027, 2028, we got those guaranteed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Then we have the final season of House of Dragon definitely coming out.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's on time in 2028.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Do I know when, um, I'm just a boy that's not talking to me, at least not yet.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we're definitely getting this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I get all of us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But we're in, but we also know they're working on developing Agon's Conquest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I don't see that coming out probably early.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's 2029 and that's probably if everything goes perfectly.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to, we have to say that we have plenty of time for them to think of possibly another show.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We know they've been kicking around the can with the Coralist Valerion animated uh, voyages of the Seesnake show and that what was it, uh, princess my marius?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 10,000 ships, 10,000 ships as a television show.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I want us to, they said that one possibly animated as well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they've confirmed the anime, I think originally they said live action, but they've kind of kept mom about the NIME or 10,000 ships show.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I just wrote about this literally yesterday in this morning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're tuning into this podcast and you want to break down of all of the spin offs that we know are in development, there's one over at Winters coming right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: 10,000 ships, it's been kind of like mom since 2024, which is when George R. Martin announced that Ebony Booth, who's a Pulitzer Pulitzer winning playwright, was doing a script for the Nymeria show.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But since then, it's like nobody said anything.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So honestly, I don't think this is bad because looking at the list of them, really drove home like,
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[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of need to revisit the well a little bit here because so the core list show is the one I want the most that's animated like I want the nine voyages they only talk about in the book George really only like discusses like I want to say like three or four of them if that like there's room to do some of them we know and some of them we know nothing about and just make some up because we know George are Martin kind of makes things up as he goes along so he probably hasn't even
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[SPEAKER_01]: really charted out with all nine of them are no yeah so yeah I mean they've got that they've got 10,000 ships then after that the only other really notable one is the golden empire which is the animated YT spin-off which again that's like all we've got for YT this is it it's four pages in the world of ice and fire that's it so they could do so much
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you have to, you have to go right around the hill.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Good show runner.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You can do a lot with those ideas right now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But like you said, just ideas and they still have to, you know, two great shows out right now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was well as a movie on the way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So the, the well is looking pretty full.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And Egon's conquest.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So with boys, he definitely, you know, he, he's not doing Egon's conquest.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's Warner Bros. Like the movie arm of Warner Bros.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Discovery.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So HBO, I assume they'll consult, but like they're not.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's so weird to think there's going to be like a Game of Thrones thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's not HBO on screens.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you, how do you feel about that?
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[SPEAKER_02]: That does feel like you said, you know, they're going to consult, they got to figure out how they want the costume design and get to get the look of the dragons, like we got one of the dragons, who would be in that show in the big are so probably, we're going to slightly younger big are a hundred years in the past, they got a spring in our step.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Last spring, so what it's going to be.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I guess we'll see how they do like how it translates to a movie and how it's going to look with just a different cast of people kind of running the background like how's that going to affect the flow or the the look and feel of the of the film.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like the Conquest is a pretty good choice for a movie because there's some events that are just like the sheer scale of them as a big part of what makes them cool and it would be hard to maybe do that on television the same way like the field of fire and stuff like that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, I think you're on you hit the nail on the head with the dates.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We know for sure it's not coming before 2027 because that's been stated already.
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[SPEAKER_01]: probably after House of the Dragons done.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know why they would release it before that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, 2029, Agon's Conquest.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Book it, book it, we're, we're declaring it now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're tickets now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so that's all that's new in Westeros.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's one other thing, I do need a briefly plug here for the site for, for Westeros coming.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We have a texting,
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[SPEAKER_01]: feature that's going live soon where you can get updates from the team text that's directly to you.
13:46.710 --> 13:49.972
[SPEAKER_01]: We're rolling it out over the course of like the next like couple weeks.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to find out more about that, you can text winter to 929-207-5591.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so that's what's up in Westeros.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to move on to the heart of our show today, which is getting into the highs and lows of the Targaryen dynasty?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we have each decided who are the three best rulers of Westeros and the three worst rulers of Westeros?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are our lists correct?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: One of us is more correct than the other.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I know we say it kind of decided what each go through one of our best ones and one of our worst ones and kind of alternate from there So hopefully you are a listen to us as we dive into so I guess starting off with one of the best rules of West Rose.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I guess who?
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[SPEAKER_02]: who wants to go first.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think so I just want to go on the record here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we did compare notes before this to make sure we are talking about six rulers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't you know pick the same ones because there are some that are pretty clearly best.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Some that are pretty clearly the worst.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not too debatable with a few of them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I just want to go on the record and say you actually do have the the correct list for this mostly there's one in particular.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to talk about so why don't you start pick one of your best and then we'll get into it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is going to be in no particular order.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So what the first of my best is going to be bailer the first our Gary of his name and I just think he.
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[SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of people that, you know, though he may have been a little too religious, a little too zealotry of it all, but Baylor really went in there after his brother King Deiron had passed away, killed all the way down in Dorn and he ended that stupid war.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was a silly war.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They were him.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It was no matter how anybody tries to hype it up, it was like, it was a dumbest thing ever.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Did Baylor kind of deal with silly, walk all the way to Dorn to free his uncle, the dragon night?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's probably not the best plan, but he did it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to make a p-still with the prince of Dorn, make a marriage pack, save the dragon knight, one of the most legendary figures in Westeros for all his chivalry.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and he helped unite the kingdom.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like he planted the seeds for Dorn to enter into the fold of the seven kingdoms.
16:25.358 --> 16:26.579
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, and he,
16:27.179 --> 16:28.620
[SPEAKER_02]: a king of the people.
16:29.180 --> 16:30.360
[SPEAKER_02]: He gave the people bread.
16:30.380 --> 16:38.983
[SPEAKER_02]: He was willing to empty the coffers in King's land and to make sure every man and woman has some bread on their plate so they didn't star.
16:39.224 --> 16:41.905
[SPEAKER_02]: How can you deny that may or from the best Kings?
16:42.765 --> 16:43.285
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
16:43.425 --> 16:43.745
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fair.
16:43.825 --> 16:44.786
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you can.
16:44.966 --> 16:45.266
[SPEAKER_01]: I think
16:46.504 --> 16:48.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the fun thing with these.
16:48.626 --> 16:55.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the best ones, a lot of them have their shortcomings because George Omar and love some a real person who, you know, nobody's perfect.
16:56.192 --> 16:58.114
[SPEAKER_01]: None of these rulers certainly are.
16:59.275 --> 17:10.605
[SPEAKER_01]: But Baylor, you know, you're right, the penance he took to Dorne to make up for his brothers' war, which we're gonna talk about because I have, I have him on my list somewhere, Darren the first.
17:11.085 --> 17:12.026
[SPEAKER_01]: The young dragon.
17:13.687 --> 17:19.428
[SPEAKER_01]: But Baylor, you know, went and basically resolved this war with Dorn.
17:19.648 --> 17:24.729
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we are going to talk like spoilers from Fire and Blood here, obviously.
17:25.929 --> 17:30.870
[SPEAKER_01]: Baylor is the son of Agon III, who is Raniris son with Damon.
17:30.910 --> 17:33.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're like a couple generations out from House of the Dragon.
17:34.651 --> 17:37.951
[SPEAKER_01]: The realm was still kind of reeling this war with Dorn is going on.
17:38.491 --> 17:40.452
[SPEAKER_01]: And Baylor, like he just walked
17:42.492 --> 17:43.653
[SPEAKER_01]: all the way there and back.
17:45.315 --> 17:53.824
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the big kind of quandary with Baylor here that I wonder how you feel about is two things.
17:54.224 --> 17:56.346
[SPEAKER_01]: One is him burning all the books.
17:58.168 --> 18:04.675
[SPEAKER_01]: He did burn a bunch of books that's like it's like a sidebar in the world of ice and fire that's like he did unfortunately do this thing too.
18:05.974 --> 18:09.735
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, and no, and it is he 100% perfect.
18:09.775 --> 18:13.556
[SPEAKER_02]: No, like you said, he burnt the books before his death.
18:13.756 --> 18:19.337
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to start a religious war against the North and the iron islands.
18:19.558 --> 18:20.178
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:20.478 --> 18:23.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to convert them to the birth of faith.
18:24.339 --> 18:24.899
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:25.439 --> 18:26.180
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all bad.
18:26.200 --> 18:29.222
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that religious deletry that goes too far.
18:29.302 --> 18:31.723
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, hey, I love the way you want to help the people.
18:31.763 --> 18:33.144
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way you want to support though.
18:33.464 --> 18:36.126
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you like what we're going to forcefully convert you.
18:36.166 --> 18:40.369
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, that's just going to that would start another silly war, but did he do it?
18:40.469 --> 18:43.851
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, he did pass away before that happened.
18:44.471 --> 18:45.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he did.
18:45.952 --> 18:47.352
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe from the help of family members.
18:47.412 --> 18:48.233
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know that.
18:48.533 --> 19:04.217
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, most of because he went on a long fast after discovering his wife slash sister that he set aside Diana that defined at age aisle, which was Damon Waters aka Damon Blackfire first of his name long may you ring.
19:04.237 --> 19:04.857
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
19:05.257 --> 19:07.398
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's all right.
19:09.795 --> 19:19.079
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of lost his mind because he didn't lock his sister the way because once he lusting the after his sister secretly, yes, but he wanted to keep his body pure by lock him in the way.
19:19.099 --> 19:24.361
[SPEAKER_02]: So he wasn't tempted by the the Targaryen and this of his little sisters.
19:24.581 --> 19:25.482
[SPEAKER_02]: That didn't sound right.
19:25.542 --> 19:25.982
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
19:27.304 --> 19:43.034
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well that's the other that's the other thing staying on Baylor's rule I was going to mention is so this thing called the maiden vault he locked his three sisters away so that they wouldn't tempt him they wouldn't tempt anyone else and they could remain virtuous and you know
19:43.975 --> 19:54.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Aside from the fact that that's a pretty intense thing to do to your sisters, you know, most of, I think it's two of them who really chaved at it, and one was a little more religious if I remember right.
19:55.361 --> 19:59.063
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and, and mine did it, maybe a little less.
19:59.764 --> 20:01.545
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say, didn't mind it at all.
20:02.865 --> 20:08.949
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, you've King, you know, marrying your siblings, your relatives,
20:13.051 --> 20:15.812
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and Baylor didn't, he didn't leave any airs.
20:16.353 --> 20:24.117
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, and he was, you know, he, he was a great ruler.
20:24.157 --> 20:25.497
[SPEAKER_01]: He did a lot of really good things.
20:26.058 --> 20:34.502
[SPEAKER_01]: The, started, the speculation is he started a little bit crazy toward the ends from the fasting from his long walk to Dorne, which is definitely like,
20:35.282 --> 20:40.285
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing of his reign, you know, he commissioned the building of the Great Sceptre Baylor, too.
20:40.625 --> 20:46.309
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the walk to Dorne, like there wouldn't be peace with Dorne, without Baylor the blessings.
20:46.369 --> 20:48.450
[SPEAKER_01]: So you got to respect it.
20:48.931 --> 20:50.212
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a good choice.
20:51.280 --> 20:52.741
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, we're looking at the best king.
20:52.761 --> 20:58.586
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to look at the realm, the political theater that they inherited.
20:58.666 --> 21:00.927
[SPEAKER_02]: He inherited one that was chaos.
21:01.228 --> 21:06.832
[SPEAKER_02]: There was an unnecessary war, and he had to be the one to kind of set it right in his own way.
21:07.452 --> 21:10.875
[SPEAKER_02]: Would that be the way I probably would have chosen on a crazy day?
21:11.135 --> 21:12.096
[SPEAKER_02]: walk down there?
21:12.256 --> 21:12.597
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
21:12.797 --> 21:13.177
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:13.197 --> 21:21.286
[SPEAKER_02]: He also, like the history was always say that he walked down there and he was going, you know, on this miracle, he made it down there.
21:21.627 --> 21:25.891
[SPEAKER_02]: There are probably guards all around up making sure the path was, the path way was clear.
21:25.932 --> 21:27.794
[SPEAKER_02]: There nobody was going to let the king walk by himself.
21:28.094 --> 21:28.314
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:28.334 --> 21:28.795
[SPEAKER_02]: Completely.
21:29.235 --> 21:42.480
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, we know from World of Ice and Fire, his trip back, that was the case, because the prince of Doran wanted offered a bishop, said, I'll sail you back to King's Landing, so that the agreement would be just made is secure.
21:42.820 --> 21:49.102
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, no, I need to walk it, partially because we wanted to spring his cousin, amen.
21:49.142 --> 21:49.242
[SPEAKER_01]: And
21:52.323 --> 22:03.207
[SPEAKER_01]: the prince sent where to head to all of the castles to be hospitable to Baylor on his way back to the seven king or to the north, north of Dorn, whatever.
22:03.227 --> 22:04.948
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all north from Dorn.
22:06.288 --> 22:14.531
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so so Baylor at the blessed definitely up there definitely a king worthy of remembrance in the animals of the seven kingdoms.
22:14.911 --> 22:18.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think part of it too is he died before he could become a bad king.
22:18.572 --> 22:18.972
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is
22:20.613 --> 22:28.198
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because like you said, he was kind of on the cusp of maybe going to war with the north and the iron islands, but he didn't live that long.
22:28.218 --> 22:32.560
[SPEAKER_01]: So we just get to remember him as a very pious king who did a lot of it.
22:32.600 --> 22:35.742
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to back up just a little bit just a little bit.
22:35.762 --> 22:39.705
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm going to drop one of my best.
22:40.607 --> 22:53.278
[SPEAKER_01]: which is Jaeheris, the first Jaeheris, the conciliator, ruled the longest of any king in the history of West rose out of all 17 Targaryen kings, ruled for 55 years and
22:56.681 --> 23:04.588
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that is cool about Jaeheris is, so Egon conquered the seven kingdoms, then Egon's sons kind of messed it all up.
23:05.389 --> 23:10.694
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two sons, both of their reigns made left a lot of problems, and then Jaeheris took over.
23:11.195 --> 23:12.316
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kind of...
23:13.843 --> 23:35.672
[SPEAKER_01]: was the Targaryen king who took like the dream of agon of like a united seven kingdoms six not counting to earn and like made a reality like he built roads he changed the laws he ruled very wisely in concert with his wife Queen Allison who held like women's courts around the seven kingdoms they outlawed
23:36.952 --> 23:48.435
[SPEAKER_01]: the tradition of first night where lords could go around and sleep with women on their wedding nights, which was like being abused in the in the awful ways in certain parts of the seven kingdoms.
23:48.835 --> 24:00.118
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all this good stuff that you're Harrison Allison did and because he reigns so long, it just brought like a, I don't think there is a period of prosperity and like,
24:00.958 --> 24:05.821
[SPEAKER_01]: Consistency for the seven kingdoms that's greater than what we got with Jeheris, the conciliator.
24:07.022 --> 24:12.226
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, he definitely, I think is one of the best.
24:12.246 --> 24:16.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Like reading fire and blood, he's kind of like the middle of the book, is his reign.
24:16.509 --> 24:20.392
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, he just, you know, he did a good job of
24:22.658 --> 24:38.895
[SPEAKER_01]: putting down potential rebellions, squashing discontent without actually doing wars too, like really great negotiator who's called the conciliator because he built a lot of bridges between all these different aspects of the kingdoms.
24:39.475 --> 24:42.979
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he's up there at the top of my list, I think.
24:44.269 --> 24:51.055
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you're really in fire and blood, you really feel like that George Armard and like that was Jay Harris's book.
24:51.075 --> 24:54.578
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he got to fill out so much of the world.
24:54.598 --> 25:00.242
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to see a truly see a king rule from the beginning of their life all the way to the end.
25:00.302 --> 25:03.665
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like when you get to the end, you're like, wow, we're still in this one king.
25:03.685 --> 25:04.906
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna read in that book for first time.
25:04.946 --> 25:08.209
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, wow, a lot has happened in his life.
25:08.480 --> 25:08.740
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:09.240 --> 25:09.961
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
25:10.061 --> 25:13.342
[SPEAKER_01]: It really does sink in when you're reading the book like cover to cover.
25:13.362 --> 25:20.744
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, he almost feels like the main character a little bit because like his rule is so long.
25:20.885 --> 25:33.169
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get this kind of a long calm down from his rule where you're introduced to all his sons and his grandchildren and stuff like Reynice Targaryen and Viserys, who we know so
25:36.170 --> 25:40.873
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I mean, Deheris just, he just did the job well.
25:40.973 --> 25:53.340
[SPEAKER_01]: He saw all of the mayhem that came before him with his father Anis and then his uncle, Megor, the cruel, and he just kind of came to the job.
25:53.400 --> 25:56.962
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a Regency for Deheris, so he didn't step right into the iron throne.
25:57.442 --> 26:00.784
[SPEAKER_01]: He had, you know, people ruling for him before he was of age.
26:01.504 --> 26:04.786
[SPEAKER_01]: But then they included him in their councils and stuff.
26:04.806 --> 26:10.029
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was a very different than some of the other regencies we see, where it really feels like he was groomed to be a good leader.
26:10.650 --> 26:11.830
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just kind of was.
26:12.511 --> 26:18.795
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, and not even going to all of his small council, but I will give him back.
26:19.055 --> 26:26.480
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to assemble a small council that probably would let it be a small cup of scepton, was it scepton barf?
26:26.520 --> 26:27.200
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I saying the same thing?
26:27.360 --> 26:53.308
[SPEAKER_01]: except in bar if yes, except in bar if we brought in he wanted to make except in bar of hand of the cake in a couple of times that he kept getting shot down and then later it is really like look Barth is my guy like he's my hand and except in barth so it's funny because we're just talking about Baylor the blessed burning books, except in Barth's book is like the main one that the book's highlight as like it's too bad that he burned except in Barth's
26:57.129 --> 27:00.492
[SPEAKER_01]: We know about dragons and old veliria and stuff like that.
27:00.632 --> 27:07.157
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of it came from Captain Barth, who Jeheris kind of handpicked to be his guy.
27:07.738 --> 27:15.684
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was great not just at ruling himself, but also choosing the right people for the right jobs to make the seven kingdoms just work.
27:17.213 --> 27:31.598
[SPEAKER_02]: Even like you said, well, like he mentioned, including his wife and having her go with him and speak to the, you know, to the other woman of the realm and she was involved in a lot of the decision making in this small council, like he would seek her council and she or she wasn't afraid to give her opinion.
27:33.158 --> 27:41.287
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally, but you know, but you know what as a good role that you have to be willing to listen and be willing to, you know, take, take their advice and implement those things.
27:41.327 --> 27:49.095
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jay, here's the good job in that problem at the best job in raising all of his kids outside of his two elders.
27:49.135 --> 27:53.699
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of a lot of, I'm not going to say outright neglect, but he just
27:54.844 --> 28:14.150
[SPEAKER_02]: didn't really care like hey I got I got my two oldest sons they're who I'm focused at all right now they're going to continue to legacy everyone else and it really kind of bit him in the rear when both his eldest sons would pass before he would so he's like uh who's going to roll the realm what's going to happen next and he really kind of
28:14.965 --> 28:21.953
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the history books say he left it up to the lords to decide and vote in the great council of 101 on the next rule there.
28:22.013 --> 28:30.784
[SPEAKER_02]: But I, we really say he really left it out to to them or did he have his influence on who was going to succeed him at that point?
28:31.098 --> 28:33.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's definitely a pretty fair question.
28:34.559 --> 28:37.259
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, I'd always kind of felt like he kind of washed his hands.
28:37.279 --> 28:38.799
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I'm old.
28:39.020 --> 28:40.980
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to have to deal with this stuff that much longer.
28:41.280 --> 28:48.001
[SPEAKER_01]: He was at the stage of his life where he was mixing people up and like squinting to make sure he recognized people right and forgetting names and stuff.
28:48.461 --> 28:51.062
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the show has him at the great council.
28:51.302 --> 28:52.442
[SPEAKER_01]: And the book he didn't even go.
28:52.462 --> 28:54.903
[SPEAKER_01]: He just said, you guys go figure it out.
28:55.383 --> 28:56.863
[SPEAKER_01]: And then let me know who you chose.
28:57.623 --> 29:05.288
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so Jaeheris really good at not just ruling well, but also like letting the seven kingdoms rule themselves when it makes sense too.
29:06.049 --> 29:15.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but yeah, you're right, obviously he did not always his fatal flaw was bad parenting essentially, which is kind of a theme for a lot of like the good kings.
29:15.815 --> 29:21.519
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were good at being a king, they didn't do the best job of making sure their children would succeed them well though.
29:21.699 --> 29:26.162
[SPEAKER_01]: So most of the good good kings of Westeros are followed by terrible ones.
29:27.742 --> 29:32.324
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the case for Jaharis, which we will talk about.
29:32.905 --> 29:36.406
[SPEAKER_01]: So who's one of your worst here?
29:36.426 --> 29:37.907
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we want to bounce back?
29:39.316 --> 29:41.478
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, we'll go to one of our worst games.
29:41.518 --> 29:48.045
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the worst games I pick, and I think it's one of the easiest ones because it's the one we're introduced to in the game of thrones.
29:48.085 --> 29:48.966
[SPEAKER_02]: We're first watching the show.
29:48.986 --> 29:50.167
[SPEAKER_02]: We hear all about this character.
29:50.387 --> 29:54.511
[SPEAKER_02]: And then his every second of his name, aka the Mad King.
29:54.872 --> 29:55.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:55.412 --> 29:58.595
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of an easy, and they already called him the Mad King.
29:58.956 --> 30:02.079
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not an affectionate subricat.
30:03.072 --> 30:16.816
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, it's like so a few of the things he did alienate his best friend in Tywin Lannister, the man that helped him, you know, kind of really submit his role and get the make sure to Seventeen and stay under their grasp.
30:17.036 --> 30:20.056
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you don't make fun of that guy, you don't undercut his authority.
30:20.277 --> 30:22.057
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's really what the Mad King was doing.
30:22.577 --> 30:23.277
[SPEAKER_02]: And then even
30:30.887 --> 30:31.647
[SPEAKER_02]: What's my name?
30:31.667 --> 30:33.529
[SPEAKER_02]: Brandon Stark in all his men.
30:33.589 --> 30:37.451
[SPEAKER_02]: And he demanded the great lords from the northern house is to come down.
30:37.471 --> 30:42.554
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, let's treat Rob, I mean, Brandon Stark was out of line.
30:42.594 --> 30:44.215
[SPEAKER_02]: He came to your calling for the Princess Ed.
30:44.495 --> 30:45.416
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't do that.
30:45.636 --> 30:49.898
[SPEAKER_02]: But then he disrespected every rule of guess right imaginable.
30:50.118 --> 30:52.260
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what are you doing?
30:52.300 --> 30:54.641
[SPEAKER_02]: You killed all the great lords.
30:54.681 --> 30:56.862
[SPEAKER_02]: You called for the heads of, of,
30:57.923 --> 31:00.465
[SPEAKER_02]: of Robert Barraffian and Ned Stark.
31:00.705 --> 31:06.810
[SPEAKER_02]: And everyone's just looking at you, not understanding, looking confused or just say, I guess we'll do it because you're king.
31:06.830 --> 31:09.112
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make your major making good decisions?
31:09.412 --> 31:22.663
[SPEAKER_02]: No, as we see, he could team me bad at such, even putting his grandchildren live at state when it was time for the, when time will then his army was at the gate, when it was even before the battle at the,
31:24.036 --> 31:34.111
[SPEAKER_02]: At the Trident, he could have let Ilia Martille and his grandchildren leave to safety, so they weren't stuck in King's land for whatever way the war was going to go.
31:34.131 --> 31:37.856
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's like, no, he kept in there as a hostage and ended up costing in their lives.
31:38.137 --> 31:38.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:39.178 --> 31:44.803
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty hard to debate that Ares deserves to be anywhere other than on the list of the worst things of the West.
31:45.324 --> 31:49.147
[SPEAKER_01]: The Targaryen dynasty crumbled and it is his fault.
31:50.008 --> 31:54.051
[SPEAKER_01]: You know that it happened on his watch because of how badly
31:55.200 --> 32:13.531
[SPEAKER_01]: He ruled and how horrifically he alienated the lords of the of the seven kingdoms with these really crazy decisions like the the guest right violating that killing you know Brandon Stark and and his father like in horrific fashion.
32:15.753 --> 32:38.797
[SPEAKER_01]: these things had consequences for Eris, and it's interesting because there is a play that just wrapped up its first run that is moving to London next year, which is Game of Thrones the Mad King, which apparently humanizes Eris a little bit more, talks about like how he got to be the way he was, but even if there are real good justifications for why Eris Targaryen became the
32:45.659 --> 32:48.183
[SPEAKER_01]: ruined this 300 year dynasty.
32:48.924 --> 32:52.589
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, I, I mean, what can you say?
32:52.930 --> 32:55.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, say here, Mark, like, yeah, that's a good choice.
32:56.395 --> 33:01.002
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only one other king who turned people against him, like Eris, I think.
33:02.264 --> 33:19.355
[SPEAKER_02]: And even when people talk about the Mad King like no even people on their side if I'm in the war, no one ever says like, oh, yeah, eras was the best king ever, eras I still would have chosen to fight for him if it wasn't for a oh, we did like, no everybody's like, no, I'm pretty crazy.
33:19.416 --> 33:20.256
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm here for the others.
33:20.316 --> 33:22.858
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're because we've been to need that's the only reason I'm fighting for.
33:23.376 --> 33:26.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there really isn't across any of the books.
33:27.017 --> 33:41.642
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really recall anyone, like reminiscing fondly about Eris, which is really different than like the Black Fire Rebellion, for example, like the Black Fire's cause a bunch of problems, but like there are still people who would like wish the Black Fire's one, like you said.
33:41.722 --> 33:44.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Like nobody is like, I've only Eris was still king.
33:46.583 --> 33:58.433
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of like, if only Ragar would have won and took the throne from here, it was like, oh, we all realized that here is probably the time for him to step aside to go to the wall.
33:58.634 --> 34:00.455
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but he didn't.
34:00.695 --> 34:03.638
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, we have no more Targaryen kings.
34:04.278 --> 34:10.043
[SPEAKER_01]: So he is the 17th, the last and definitely one of the worst.
34:12.601 --> 34:15.984
[SPEAKER_02]: at least until Daenerys Targaryen comes back.
34:16.825 --> 34:17.646
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a winner.
34:17.666 --> 34:18.467
[SPEAKER_02]: He's talking now.
34:18.787 --> 34:19.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I can.
34:20.048 --> 34:21.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:21.129 --> 34:22.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she be one of the best for the worst.
34:22.851 --> 34:32.760
[SPEAKER_01]: She, I mean, I think no matter how bad Danny is in the book, because I do think she'll have it like a dark arc, regardless of whether it's exactly like the show.
34:32.780 --> 34:37.244
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she'll have the time to be as bad as Eris, because Eris ruled for
34:38.527 --> 34:51.276
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, 21 years and not all of that time he he was terrible, but like enough of it that you know, Danny's not going to rule for 20 years, even if she gets the iron throne, she just isn't.
34:52.177 --> 34:58.502
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, eras the eras the second definitely up there, one of the worst, no question.
34:59.618 --> 35:05.666
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, but who do you have for even maybe a worse or king that ruled?
35:06.247 --> 35:08.409
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a theme to some of these worsts.
35:09.571 --> 35:16.640
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna go with Viserys the first, played by Patty Constantine in House of the Dragon.
35:18.422 --> 35:26.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Viserius, you know, he's not the worst in the same way that Eris is where Eris committed monstrosities.
35:26.990 --> 35:28.211
[SPEAKER_01]: He turned people against him.
35:28.251 --> 35:29.412
[SPEAKER_01]: He did all this awful stuff.
35:29.873 --> 35:36.198
[SPEAKER_01]: But they have one thing in common, which is the Targaryen dynasty, almost crumbled on their watch.
35:36.439 --> 35:36.919
[SPEAKER_01]: Eris did.
35:37.960 --> 35:44.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Viserius came like the closest it ever had in history by a lot.
35:45.082 --> 36:03.087
[SPEAKER_01]: So Viserius's big problem is that he, you know, we mentioned that flaw-wise, a lot of the good kings were in great parents, things like that, a lot of awful kings, I don't want to say we're good parents, but like, you know, had children who succeeded them well, we can say,
36:05.648 --> 36:07.750
[SPEAKER_01]: Viserius is neither.
36:08.211 --> 36:11.554
[SPEAKER_01]: He was kind of a king who really just didn't want to deal with anything.
36:11.674 --> 36:15.597
[SPEAKER_01]: So like things, you know, there weren't too many wars on his watch.
36:16.258 --> 36:23.084
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like there was tons of unrest on his watch, but he just kind of let things stagnate in a really dangerous way.
36:23.324 --> 36:25.306
[SPEAKER_01]: And he did that for the
36:30.931 --> 36:46.518
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the show is made such a thing of like Reneera being like this very worthy air who she chose who could succeed him who like he trained in some ways to succeed him and entrusted with this secret to to take over after him.
36:47.478 --> 36:51.000
[SPEAKER_01]: Reneera is not painted that kindly in the book.
36:51.460 --> 37:00.064
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very much more of a situation of Vesera's named in air because nobody wanted Damon to be the air, and then he just didn't want to deal with it again.
37:00.084 --> 37:13.590
[SPEAKER_01]: The great council is this precedent that the Crown has to go to a male claimant before a female, and not only that it can't pass through a female claimant to
37:14.530 --> 37:16.011
[SPEAKER_01]: her son or grandson.
37:16.431 --> 37:27.877
[SPEAKER_01]: And for better or worse, the whole point of that being established at the Great Council was to set it as almost like a law or precedent that the lords of the seven kingdoms would adhere to.
37:28.677 --> 37:37.441
[SPEAKER_01]: So whether Reneira, you know, if she was really exceptionally well suited, like Reneis, who actually could have probably been a really good queen.
37:39.442 --> 37:59.753
[SPEAKER_01]: then that's a different story, but the way it's painted in the book is just like he names his daughter the heir, upending the, you know, he didn't have a son at that time, but then when he once he had a son and could do the the great council thing, which would have appeased probably every Lord in Westeros, he just didn't want to be bothered and that's the thing.
37:59.853 --> 38:04.356
[SPEAKER_01]: The Sarah's didn't want to be bothered with ruling and because of that we got the dance of the
38:08.298 --> 38:10.420
[SPEAKER_01]: all the Targaryens died almost.
38:11.041 --> 38:21.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's, you know, we get a few generations of like mild turmoil before things really settle again, kind of during the reign of Baylor the Blessed.
38:22.853 --> 38:25.095
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but Sarah's is up there.
38:25.616 --> 38:26.737
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he did a good job.
38:28.169 --> 38:29.130
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they did a good job either.
38:29.150 --> 38:32.514
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you said, it was just, uh, I already did something.
38:32.574 --> 38:36.819
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we really have to go back to this again and go back to this issue?
38:36.899 --> 38:37.760
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't even an issue?
38:38.180 --> 38:39.362
[SPEAKER_02]: I name my daughter, air.
38:39.762 --> 38:41.925
[SPEAKER_02]: I love actually didn't love my first wife.
38:41.945 --> 38:43.446
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just going to keep it at that.
38:43.867 --> 38:45.428
[SPEAKER_02]: It's he, it's like he didn't want to.
38:45.989 --> 38:48.670
[SPEAKER_02]: think about the repercussions of that.
38:48.750 --> 38:50.711
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, it is what it is.
38:50.771 --> 38:53.272
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's not that, like, we have to.
38:53.692 --> 39:06.537
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess you can also say what's he getting the correct intel from maybe some people on his small council to how some of the other lords and ladies were feeling about this decision could have been like, okay, yeah, enough people said they were good with it.
39:06.817 --> 39:09.458
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kingsward is law and just leave it at that.
39:09.838 --> 39:13.240
[SPEAKER_02]: But we just can't, we can't leave it at, hey, Kingsward is law, we have to actually,
39:13.940 --> 39:22.330
[SPEAKER_02]: do something that to make sure it's it is set in it is preceded and so everyone will follow it in he's just going to do it.
39:22.350 --> 39:24.533
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's on his own fame build the legals in a TV show.
39:24.893 --> 39:29.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah totally and the TV show makes him just so much more sympathetic.
39:29.839 --> 39:32.322
[SPEAKER_01]: So like we're talking about the fire and blood version of
39:33.003 --> 39:33.403
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:33.784 --> 39:36.347
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we haven't seen adaptations for the rest of the king.
39:36.387 --> 39:39.770
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of apples and oranges to talk about the way the show portrayed him.
39:40.271 --> 39:44.295
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Viserys, you know, he definitely just did what he wanted.
39:44.455 --> 39:53.144
[SPEAKER_01]: He inherited, you know, the the seven kingdoms essentially at their apex from Jae Harris, the conciliator and he just kind of coasted.
39:53.805 --> 40:02.011
[SPEAKER_01]: didn't didn't do anything else monumental just didn't want to be bothered and as a result like tens of thousands of people died.
40:02.091 --> 40:09.237
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he didn't live to see the fact that he was one of the worse, but he definitely was, I think.
40:10.477 --> 40:12.159
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's another one of your best?
40:13.783 --> 40:14.723
[SPEAKER_02]: best.
40:14.764 --> 40:16.985
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is going to be the true best.
40:17.285 --> 40:18.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Magor.
40:18.866 --> 40:21.887
[SPEAKER_02]: Magor first of the innocence.
40:23.148 --> 40:37.255
[SPEAKER_02]: History remember him as Magor the cruel, but I I would like to say I don't agree if we look at kind of how I wanted to think about it is what he inherited or what he should have inherited.
40:37.275 --> 40:42.678
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, because if we look at it,
40:44.674 --> 40:47.096
[SPEAKER_02]: everyone said he had an older brother named Amy's.
40:47.296 --> 40:57.465
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's was technically the eldest son to egg on the conqueror, but when we look at the line of succession, uh, technically egg on and sister wife, but senior was older than him.
40:57.485 --> 41:02.109
[SPEAKER_02]: So when she had her child, which was a meagor of the cruel, you could almost say,
41:02.649 --> 41:05.432
[SPEAKER_02]: He should come in front of Amy's in the line of succession.
41:05.632 --> 41:06.713
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not what they believe.
41:07.213 --> 41:10.216
[SPEAKER_02]: Eggon loved his other sister wife a little bit more.
41:10.496 --> 41:12.058
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Amy's was the heir.
41:12.078 --> 41:13.239
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's became king.
41:13.439 --> 41:14.740
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's was a weak ruler.
41:14.901 --> 41:18.864
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's couldn't hold the kings together after Eggon the conqueror.
41:19.185 --> 41:22.868
[SPEAKER_02]: So, when Amy's finally died because he was a weak feeble man.
41:23.228 --> 41:24.269
[SPEAKER_02]: Eggon's looked around.
41:25.230 --> 41:27.711
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, hmm, he was at this point.
41:27.752 --> 41:29.372
[SPEAKER_02]: He's already been banished to S.O.S.
41:29.412 --> 41:30.873
[SPEAKER_02]: because he might have taken a second wife.
41:30.893 --> 41:32.254
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be with our guardians.
41:32.294 --> 41:32.954
[SPEAKER_02]: They're okay.
41:32.994 --> 41:33.615
[SPEAKER_02]: He's looking around.
41:43.240 --> 41:46.881
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, my, my little nephew, uh, egg on the uncranked.
41:46.901 --> 41:49.601
[SPEAKER_02]: He would be called the uncrowned because the one my man made or it's gonna do.
41:49.881 --> 41:52.102
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, he can't hold a king of came together.
41:52.222 --> 41:53.862
[SPEAKER_02]: At that time, he didn't even have a dragon.
41:54.102 --> 41:57.663
[SPEAKER_02]: And his sister wife, Reina, her dragon was on the way of Kingslandy.
41:57.843 --> 42:01.784
[SPEAKER_02]: They were in the Western lands of being but siege because people didn't like the Targaryens.
42:01.964 --> 42:03.464
[SPEAKER_02]: People didn't want the Targaryens.
42:03.764 --> 42:09.365
[SPEAKER_02]: So what, what can make our do except come there and make sure to make the kingdom right again?
42:09.865 --> 42:10.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:10.245 --> 42:18.469
[SPEAKER_02]: They had these warriors of the faith, the warrior's sons were doing everything they could to undermine House Targaryen.
42:19.429 --> 42:28.213
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to be the one there and do a trial by seven that hadn't been seen in all the years, a bunch of years, and we saw one in the night of the seven kingdoms.
42:28.493 --> 42:29.434
[SPEAKER_02]: This is in the book.
42:29.974 --> 42:37.082
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we got to see the first one got the read it and see that this man fought a trial by seven and one defeating all seven of the competitors.
42:37.262 --> 42:45.070
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, six to who they all died, but the other seven died the only one that lived was megalore and he went and he made the kingdom right again.
42:45.631 --> 42:46.551
[SPEAKER_02]: He went to Old Town.
42:46.591 --> 42:48.672
[SPEAKER_02]: He was unnoticed by the high septid.
42:48.812 --> 42:51.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Did the other one die the mysterious away that didn't like how talking around?
42:52.054 --> 42:52.394
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
42:52.474 --> 42:52.814
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:52.894 --> 43:02.238
[SPEAKER_02]: For the new, the new high septid came in, anointed him, and all the people that had all this grief and strife about House Targaryen.
43:02.698 --> 43:05.380
[SPEAKER_02]: For the most part, they were like, okay, cool, cool.
43:05.861 --> 43:16.069
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think we're gonna be on your side right now, uh, uh, and whether a lot of fighting, yes, whether a lot of contention going on, yes, they take on even more sister-wise.
43:16.129 --> 43:17.029
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's sister-wise.
43:17.250 --> 43:18.250
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like, at least wife.
43:19.131 --> 43:20.092
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, about six wives.
43:20.332 --> 43:21.233
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, six wives.
43:21.473 --> 43:22.274
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, six wives.
43:22.294 --> 43:22.954
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, six wives.
43:23.154 --> 43:24.696
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes, and wives.
43:24.736 --> 43:26.637
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was because he couldn't have children.
43:27.097 --> 43:29.699
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a chance he was maybe in front of them that really messed with his head?
43:30.560 --> 43:31.520
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit a little bit.
43:31.540 --> 43:34.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but he just wanted to make sure was right for the kingdom.
43:34.421 --> 43:37.762
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can't forget he did have a female heir.
43:38.522 --> 43:39.723
[SPEAKER_02]: He was making the cool for anybody.
43:39.743 --> 43:49.065
[SPEAKER_01]: He made his niece, uh, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, my, reign of child.
43:49.125 --> 43:49.425
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:49.825 --> 43:50.125
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:50.505 --> 43:54.467
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, he was willing to have a, have a, a little girl be his
43:56.958 --> 43:57.298
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so.
43:57.318 --> 43:57.819
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
43:57.879 --> 44:00.380
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, progressive, progressive.
44:02.542 --> 44:02.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:04.563 --> 44:14.289
[SPEAKER_02]: If not for him, the line of House Targaryen wouldn't have been established because Amy's before him, he was the one that had to tell everybody like, hey, we had dragons.
44:14.489 --> 44:18.572
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I might have forgotten that with my brother on the iron for all, but the dragons remember.
44:19.324 --> 44:20.004
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
44:20.024 --> 44:21.045
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that you have this year.
44:21.065 --> 44:22.586
[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, make or the cruel is a shoe in for on the worst.
44:22.606 --> 44:24.227
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right, like if you ask most people, he's he's got a bad rap.
44:24.247 --> 44:34.952
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a, you know, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but
44:35.152 --> 44:52.802
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right that he did inherit a situation that basically like the Targaryen dynasty would have collapsed without Magor and I think so I just re-read fire and blood for the first time in years the first time you read it's kind of like man Magor does all this horrific stuff you know he he marries a bunch of widows
44:53.482 --> 44:55.283
[SPEAKER_01]: who's husband, he had all killed.
44:55.663 --> 44:59.925
[SPEAKER_01]: He basically slaughtered anyone who violently disagrees with him.
45:00.345 --> 45:07.929
[SPEAKER_01]: He had Megor's holdfast that castle within a castle built with all of the secret tunnels we see in Game of Thrones.
45:08.009 --> 45:11.611
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he had all the builders killed, so they couldn't tell anyone about them.
45:12.651 --> 45:15.213
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all sorts of stuff that Megor did that is
45:16.013 --> 45:28.020
[SPEAKER_01]: obviously bad, obviously terrible, but it is also totally true the Targaryen dynasty would have collapsed without him because Anis was a bad ruler.
45:28.040 --> 45:41.388
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're going to talk about Anis and then agon the unground, like you said, like he was besieged, he and Reina went on a procession to announce their marriage, which had been announced without really thinking about the fact that the
45:46.235 --> 45:47.502
[SPEAKER_01]: And they got like
45:48.731 --> 45:53.912
[SPEAKER_01]: held up by a mob and held up in this castle for like pretty sure it was like months and then Megor came back.
45:54.972 --> 45:56.552
[SPEAKER_01]: People say he used to hurt the crown.
45:56.952 --> 45:59.833
[SPEAKER_01]: There was nobody holding the crown when Megor came back.
46:00.253 --> 46:00.833
[SPEAKER_01]: He came back.
46:00.873 --> 46:02.233
[SPEAKER_01]: He won that trial by seven.
46:02.873 --> 46:08.194
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, he knipped the kingdoms back together with fire and blood.
46:08.834 --> 46:17.456
[SPEAKER_01]: And also he turned so many people against him that by the time his rule was done, Megor is the way Megor's rule ended is really interesting because
46:18.748 --> 46:41.890
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you would think like he died in in battle or something and like there was a rebellion, whatever, basically there was a rebellion and it's just he just kind of united everyone against him because he was so bad and he realized that at the end and it's not clear whether he was murdered, whether he committed suicide, he died on the iron throne, I think he might be the only Targaryen ruler to die on the iron throne.
46:42.890 --> 46:52.253
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, with his wrist slit open, laying across the iron throne and that's how I went with one of his brides, one of his wives found them.
46:52.413 --> 46:52.593
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:52.613 --> 46:53.513
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, no.
46:53.993 --> 47:00.815
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember because the two advisors, the only two that were still with them, didn't one of them come into a side.
47:01.381 --> 47:02.522
[SPEAKER_01]: It's speculative.
47:02.802 --> 47:05.943
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing with so much of this in Fire and Blood.
47:06.403 --> 47:12.226
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does leave Megor's death a little ambiguous, whether he committed suicide, whether someone killed him.
47:13.667 --> 47:15.588
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it does say, though.
47:15.928 --> 47:23.091
[SPEAKER_01]: So you think he's infertile for a lot of his rule, one of his wives who was from, I think, lease from one of the free cities.
47:23.452 --> 47:24.332
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a sorceress.
47:24.552 --> 47:27.013
[SPEAKER_01]: She was poisoning the other wives so he couldn't have kids.
47:27.594 --> 47:30.075
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's made for the victim here.
47:31.727 --> 47:33.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, maybe, I don't know.
47:33.869 --> 47:46.036
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit, uh, yeah, maybe it's such a hot take to say, maybe where the crew is one of the best, but it also is just totally true that we would not have a Targaryen dynasty without him.
47:46.096 --> 47:50.199
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was the King Westeros needed at that point.
47:51.136 --> 47:53.839
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because if you think about like this, he was able to set it up.
47:53.919 --> 48:03.852
[SPEAKER_02]: So when Jeheris preceded him, he was able to say, the warrior sons, maybe the faith shouldn't have a militia arm to their organization.
48:04.753 --> 48:06.195
[SPEAKER_02]: I see what you did to my uncle.
48:06.475 --> 48:07.576
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's abolish that.
48:07.817 --> 48:10.500
[SPEAKER_02]: The crown will be the ones to protect the faith now.
48:10.660 --> 48:22.011
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was a smart smart move that you wouldn't have seen unless you went to war with them, shout out the Magor for making it so the next target in King can see that see that vision for us.
48:22.251 --> 48:23.052
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
48:23.372 --> 48:27.797
[SPEAKER_01]: When Magor took the crown, the faith militant controlled King's landing.
48:28.497 --> 48:43.607
[SPEAKER_01]: They controlled the gates, they controlled the city, so like it, it definitely, they were roving the countryside like they were kind of a menace when Megor took over, so if we didn't want the seven kingdoms to fall to total religious zealotry.
48:44.728 --> 48:48.472
[SPEAKER_01]: you needed that make or the cruel to set things to rights and he did.
48:49.252 --> 48:50.954
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's a fun.
48:51.114 --> 48:53.416
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my favorite choice out of all of these.
48:53.516 --> 48:56.719
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we are going to go outside the box.
48:56.819 --> 49:02.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll see what are next choice because who do you have for another best escape?
49:03.025 --> 49:08.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I have Darren the second who was the king.
49:08.886 --> 49:11.207
[SPEAKER_01]: He's good king Darren.
49:11.227 --> 49:14.448
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the king during a night of the seven kingdom season one.
49:14.468 --> 49:16.588
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't ever see him but he's the king at that time period.
49:17.248 --> 49:24.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like to Harris, he inherited a real bad situation and he managed to for 25 years
49:33.072 --> 49:34.493
[SPEAKER_01]: who again, we'll talk about.
49:34.874 --> 49:56.851
[SPEAKER_01]: He was egg on the unworthy and he essentially was just totally prone to vices, corruption, you know, fathering bastards, hundreds of bastards who he legitimized has most infamous act, which ensured there would be war for like five generations after him,
50:04.607 --> 50:10.637
[SPEAKER_01]: He also didn't like Darren, his heir, his own heir, his own son.
50:10.677 --> 50:14.663
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't like him because he didn't like his mom, who was a gone sister.
50:17.857 --> 50:30.885
[SPEAKER_01]: what he did was so doubt, during his reign, while he was still alive, so doubt that Darren was a bastard that he was illegitimate, that he was the son of Amin, the dragon knight, and not agon, the unworthy.
50:31.665 --> 50:40.190
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, when agon died, and he legitimized all his bastards, the seeds of like rebellion were just already there, and that's the black fire rebellion.
50:40.631 --> 50:42.392
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren walks into that,
50:42.772 --> 50:47.234
[SPEAKER_01]: He manages to just be a good king for a corner of a century.
50:47.654 --> 50:51.115
[SPEAKER_01]: He endured that first black fire rebellion.
50:51.735 --> 50:59.578
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the rare example of a good king who also raised his kids well because Baylor breaks beer.
50:59.618 --> 51:02.399
[SPEAKER_01]: If you like to Baylor in a night of the seven kingdoms,
51:02.939 --> 51:07.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Darren's his dad, he raised him really well, make hard too.
51:07.222 --> 51:09.544
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know like, make hard can be a little bit of a jerk.
51:09.884 --> 51:14.488
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a little stern, uh, make hard has got his own child's woes with his kids.
51:15.468 --> 51:17.870
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think make cars a pretty stand up guy.
51:18.150 --> 51:19.251
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's pretty decent.
51:19.291 --> 51:20.632
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't mean to kill his brother.
51:21.453 --> 51:24.155
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both, you know, they were besties before that.
51:24.215 --> 51:26.357
[SPEAKER_01]: They won the red grass field along with
51:29.348 --> 51:30.969
[SPEAKER_01]: uncle, Brendan Rivers.
51:32.709 --> 51:39.132
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I just think, dare in the second, not the most, not the flashiest king of Westeros, not the most remarkable.
51:39.632 --> 51:47.936
[SPEAKER_01]: No one could look at him and say he had the biggest accomplishments, but I think the seven kingdoms was like on a knife-sedge when he inherited it.
51:48.276 --> 51:54.178
[SPEAKER_01]: And unlike Megor who like brought it back by being the worst so much that everyone
51:55.919 --> 52:02.185
[SPEAKER_01]: um, dare and brought it back by just being good to the point where like people accepted his rule and were grateful for it.
52:02.645 --> 52:10.272
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless they were an open rebellion against him in which case they cursed him because after the black fire rebellion he took all their property away and demoted them.
52:10.292 --> 52:13.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but you know what they betrayed him after he tried to be a good king.
52:14.095 --> 52:15.936
[SPEAKER_01]: So who's fault is that?
52:17.213 --> 52:39.309
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, who's fall, and he's part of the best example of he inherited a crazy situation from his dad, especially like he said earlier, legitimizing all those bastards, but even after all that he did try to form, you know, he had all the bastards at King's Lane and he could have expelled them, said, you got to live after your family's castle, he didn't do that.
52:39.329 --> 52:43.491
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, hey, you're here, you're a children of the crown,
52:44.352 --> 52:46.434
[SPEAKER_02]: How about we all work together?
52:46.494 --> 52:49.196
[SPEAKER_02]: How about you all are nearby?
52:50.477 --> 53:01.846
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe he didn't go so far as to, hey, I'm gonna put you on the small council right now, but I'm willing to have you be adjacent to me, maybe in some type of advisory role.
53:02.026 --> 53:02.226
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:03.104 --> 53:09.210
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, the other thing, we got a shout there in the second out for which this is part of what caused unrest in his lifetime.
53:09.590 --> 53:13.074
[SPEAKER_01]: But history will reflect that he was right and it was a good thing.
53:13.574 --> 53:18.779
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren the second is the one that actually formally got Dorne to be in the seven kingdoms.
53:19.079 --> 53:24.344
[SPEAKER_01]: So Baylor the Blessed laid the groundwork for this by promising that Darren has
53:27.087 --> 53:30.429
[SPEAKER_01]: who was a kid at the time when Baylor did his penance and walked across Dorn.
53:30.729 --> 53:33.131
[SPEAKER_01]: But he would marry a Dornish princess.
53:33.811 --> 53:36.253
[SPEAKER_01]: And that that is how Dorn would come into the fold.
53:36.873 --> 53:40.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Dare and when he became an adult honored that he married a Dornish princess.
53:43.417 --> 53:45.118
[SPEAKER_01]: She came to live with him in King's Landing.
53:45.558 --> 53:56.084
[SPEAKER_01]: He made another marriage compact with his brother-in-law, essentially, the Prince of Doran, which solidified it, and then that Doran is Prince Bentheny.
53:56.664 --> 54:01.166
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren II not only did a good job by the Seven Kingdoms.
54:01.206 --> 54:02.407
[SPEAKER_01]: He already had to rule.
54:02.827 --> 54:06.329
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the one who made Doran a part of the Seven Kingdoms.
54:07.390 --> 54:09.711
[SPEAKER_01]: And he did it without spilling a drop of blood.
54:11.872 --> 54:13.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of some of the lords of westerns didn't like it.
54:14.394 --> 54:18.416
[SPEAKER_01]: They were so used to the dornish being the enemy is that they had problems with that.
54:19.017 --> 54:27.262
[SPEAKER_01]: But once again, who's problem is that because now, by the time of Game of Thrones, we see that having dorn in the seven kingdoms is a good thing.
54:27.342 --> 54:29.744
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, Darren was right.
54:31.009 --> 54:37.298
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why do we need hostile neighbors like, hey, let's just marry people off and have everyone be one big happy family.
54:37.398 --> 54:37.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
54:37.898 --> 54:38.099
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
54:38.559 --> 54:39.761
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, dare in the second.
54:40.242 --> 54:41.323
[SPEAKER_01]: He's on my list for the best.
54:42.405 --> 54:43.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's your next worst?
54:44.854 --> 54:50.636
[SPEAKER_02]: who my next worst is going to be Amy's Targaryen, a name so horrible.
54:51.056 --> 54:52.516
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't think we rarely see it again.
54:52.536 --> 54:55.457
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the only other Amy's is like Amy's black fire.
54:55.778 --> 54:56.698
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, names are kidding.
54:56.798 --> 54:56.918
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's.
54:57.758 --> 54:59.919
[SPEAKER_02]: And then people call it, use the name, Amy's.
55:00.299 --> 55:02.020
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, some people call it Amy's.
55:02.040 --> 55:03.220
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I call it Amy's.
55:03.680 --> 55:04.961
[SPEAKER_01]: like, totally.
55:05.802 --> 55:07.403
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you anus fan or anus fan?
55:07.423 --> 55:08.564
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
55:08.744 --> 55:10.405
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was anus for a long time.
55:10.465 --> 55:12.967
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, who named this this guy?
55:12.987 --> 55:14.748
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the conqueror.
55:14.968 --> 55:16.730
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the name does get anus.
55:17.530 --> 55:17.810
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:18.151 --> 55:20.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Anus Targaryen, I think, is how it's actually said.
55:20.892 --> 55:23.995
[SPEAKER_01]: But even still, it's an unfortunate name for an unfortunate man.
55:24.215 --> 55:25.576
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a great choice.
55:25.836 --> 55:26.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is he one of the worst?
55:27.017 --> 55:28.438
[SPEAKER_01]: We already talked about him a little bit.
55:29.852 --> 55:32.072
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was ill prepared to roll.
55:32.152 --> 55:39.074
[SPEAKER_02]: He was, when he growing up, he was a little sickly kid until he finally got his drag in, which is great, awesome, super.
55:39.414 --> 55:46.855
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think, and this is, you know, could be a fault of Egg on the Conqueror, prepared him to actually roll the seven kingdoms.
55:47.115 --> 55:48.895
[SPEAKER_02]: My man was a prince of the town.
55:49.155 --> 55:50.676
[SPEAKER_02]: He was out here having all these parties.
55:50.696 --> 55:52.836
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's fun, it's lively, it's great.
55:53.076 --> 55:57.617
[SPEAKER_02]: But when it was time to inherit the iron throne after the unfortunate death of Egg on the Conqueror,
55:57.877 --> 55:59.719
[SPEAKER_02]: he's like, hey, the parties are going to continue.
56:00.099 --> 56:01.260
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything's going to keep going.
56:01.340 --> 56:02.401
[SPEAKER_02]: How is they ever going to stop?
56:02.642 --> 56:03.402
[SPEAKER_02]: And it does stop.
56:03.583 --> 56:19.818
[SPEAKER_02]: He had, I want to say, four active rebellions right when he became king, the between the red hair and taking hair and haul back, claim to be the son of Aaron the black, the priest king, Lodos at the Iron Islands, the clearing that the drown god shell right.
56:19.838 --> 56:21.860
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the drown god shell, rather than again.
56:22.340 --> 56:39.830
[SPEAKER_02]: The Vulture King down in Dorn called in on his mayhem and the veil of air and house Aaron dispute when one brother locked the other brother away and what was Amy still when letting his brother make or go, make or have a cool somebody say go figure and solve most these issues out while he sent the castle going.
56:40.250 --> 56:40.991
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
56:41.471 --> 56:41.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
56:42.532 --> 56:43.192
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:43.392 --> 56:44.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he really, he really did.
56:45.053 --> 56:47.955
[SPEAKER_01]: He is very similar to Vaceris the first in this way.
56:49.155 --> 56:54.236
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but he just, he just didn't understand why people were upset.
56:54.656 --> 56:55.717
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't know how to handle it.
56:55.737 --> 56:59.878
[SPEAKER_02]: At least if a Sarah's was lucky enough where like, everybody's like, oh, you know, how's our game and it's here?
56:59.898 --> 57:00.338
[SPEAKER_02]: That's cool.
57:00.938 --> 57:02.078
[SPEAKER_02]: This is still a new thing.
57:02.118 --> 57:02.478
[SPEAKER_02]: We need it.
57:02.498 --> 57:09.320
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody, and I guess that's always the thing between A and E's and Megor, they're both two extremes.
57:09.540 --> 57:10.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
57:10.160 --> 57:18.782
[SPEAKER_02]: If they would, would alert to work together, man, there's like a perfect king in there, but when you have one person who's just trying to throw a party and one person who's just trying to start a fight,
57:19.883 --> 57:30.854
[SPEAKER_02]: things don't work out and I think Anis was just really at an unfortunate time where they need it a stronger fist to make sure the seven kingdoms were still solidified.
57:31.154 --> 57:31.834
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
57:31.935 --> 57:39.062
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Anis is, you know, he's the one who came after Agon the Conqueror, Agon's son with his sister wife, Rainis.
57:40.890 --> 57:48.433
[SPEAKER_01]: He really, you know, the best thing Andy stood was one, he married a aless of Valarian who was a good queen.
57:49.194 --> 57:51.575
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and two, he had a lot of kids.
57:51.955 --> 57:57.958
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is ultimately what secured the Targaryen dynasty was his kids, you know, Jaeheris is one of his kids.
57:58.138 --> 58:01.019
[SPEAKER_01]: He had enough kids that make or the cruel could kill off a couple of them.
58:01.599 --> 58:05.601
[SPEAKER_01]: And there would still be a Targaryen dynasty because Maygor did kill off.
58:05.681 --> 58:07.302
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe two of of
58:09.863 --> 58:13.024
[SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, Amy's really let the kingdoms crumble around him.
58:13.104 --> 58:35.494
[SPEAKER_01]: He inherited rule and a lot of his choices were just like lack of foresight, like the big, the big mistake he made was marrying his son Agon to his daughter, Reina, without thinking through the implications of that, because that's what turned the church against House Targaryen because that's what they did in
58:37.955 --> 58:53.667
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't, they made an exception for Egon the Conquer and his sister wives, like they were exceptional people, but when it came down to like, oh, this is just going to be an incestuous dynasty, he did it without really thinking and it basically like stoked so much on rest.
59:03.928 --> 59:04.569
[SPEAKER_01]: five years.
59:04.809 --> 59:08.171
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all A&E's ruled for five years by the end of it.
59:08.692 --> 59:14.976
[SPEAKER_01]: The Targaryen dynasty was on the verge of collapse, if not for our savior, may go to the cruel.
59:15.076 --> 59:18.719
[SPEAKER_01]: So he wouldn't have done my list if he wasn't on your list.
59:18.759 --> 59:19.560
[SPEAKER_01]: He deserves it.
59:20.440 --> 59:23.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he just, just was not ready for the rule.
59:23.324 --> 59:28.830
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if he came up, came up in a time where Biserys the first was ruling, I think Amy's gonna handle it.
59:28.910 --> 59:37.440
[SPEAKER_02]: He can handle a situation that required so much, you know, political maneuvering and dealing, maybe he didn't have the strongest people around him to help them.
59:37.780 --> 59:40.061
[SPEAKER_02]: with that transitional power either.
59:40.081 --> 59:42.301
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone just, you know, you depend on it.
59:42.341 --> 59:44.122
[SPEAKER_02]: It's easy to say, hey, agon, the conquerors here.
59:44.402 --> 59:45.442
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got everything in order.
59:45.642 --> 59:47.443
[SPEAKER_02]: No one's going to justify him.
59:47.783 --> 59:54.925
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like looking, maybe that's agon, not being honest with himself and looking at his son and going like, hmm, have I raised him?
59:56.633 --> 01:00:02.438
[SPEAKER_02]: a heart, you have a Richard Child, a heart, but like, is this the child that will make the dynasty continue?
01:00:02.558 --> 01:00:02.858
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00:03.339 --> 01:00:04.200
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hard job.
01:00:04.300 --> 01:00:05.921
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you raised him well enough to do it?
01:00:06.902 --> 01:00:08.143
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really interesting point.
01:00:08.243 --> 01:00:10.946
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in a different time, Andy's could have been a great ruler.
01:00:11.506 --> 01:00:18.973
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is that perfect storm of like unprepared ruler inheriting a really difficult situation.
01:00:19.333 --> 01:00:19.613
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,
01:00:21.675 --> 01:00:31.141
[SPEAKER_01]: a good setup, it's not like the kingdoms were on it, you know, in trouble when Egon died, but they were new, you know, he was the first ruler.
01:00:31.181 --> 01:00:36.905
[SPEAKER_01]: There was always going to be contention after he died to see like, was that just a one-off thing?
01:00:37.445 --> 01:00:41.027
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have, you know, a real ruling lineage here?
01:00:41.047 --> 01:00:44.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and Amy's just wasn't up to that task.
01:00:44.470 --> 01:00:46.991
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, Jaeheris is the king who was up to
01:00:49.953 --> 01:01:07.885
[SPEAKER_01]: what agon did and then make it a long-term thing, but, you know, if he was later in the history of the Seven Kingdoms, when they were established, you know, when it wasn't a situation where every, you know, great Lord is going to turn against you the second, the last guy died.
01:01:08.645 --> 01:01:14.669
[SPEAKER_01]: He might have, he might have been really popular, but that wasn't in the cards for him, so he is one of the worst.
01:01:15.842 --> 01:01:21.723
[SPEAKER_02]: one of the worst, but I guess the real question is, do you have an even worse or king back in Albedaines?
01:01:26.244 --> 01:01:28.844
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that I do to be honest.
01:01:28.864 --> 01:01:30.044
[SPEAKER_01]: My question is being clear here.
01:01:30.364 --> 01:01:34.865
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think your worse are the worst.
01:01:35.185 --> 01:01:42.026
[SPEAKER_01]: So no, I know I don't is the answer to that, but I do have another one who deserves to be considered one of the worst.
01:01:42.527 --> 01:01:44.107
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is probably going to make some people mad.
01:01:45.707 --> 01:01:47.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Darren the first the young dragon.
01:01:48.729 --> 01:01:49.490
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's got it.
01:01:49.770 --> 01:01:53.333
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a cool little nickname because people liked him.
01:01:53.473 --> 01:01:54.234
[SPEAKER_01]: He went to war.
01:01:54.514 --> 01:01:55.515
[SPEAKER_01]: He conquered Doran.
01:01:55.535 --> 01:01:57.836
[SPEAKER_01]: So we did the thing I got on the Conqueror could not do.
01:01:58.196 --> 01:02:00.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Conqueror Doran, but the problem was,
01:02:01.659 --> 01:02:03.160
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't really need to conquer Dorn.
01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:12.346
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren, the first took over the seven kingdoms after the dance, a few after the dance of the dragons.
01:02:12.546 --> 01:02:14.527
[SPEAKER_01]: After Agon III, we got Darren the first.
01:02:15.128 --> 01:02:21.672
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kind of immediately was like, I'm going to conquer Dorn, even though we're still reeling from the dance of the dragons.
01:02:22.792 --> 01:02:24.854
[SPEAKER_01]: He very famously said that his
01:02:25.574 --> 01:02:28.135
[SPEAKER_01]: his small council was like, we don't have any dragons.
01:02:28.155 --> 01:02:28.855
[SPEAKER_01]: How can we do that?
01:02:28.875 --> 01:02:30.775
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, you have a dragon right in front of you.
01:02:30.815 --> 01:02:39.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So like he was 14 when he took over the iron throne, his uncle Viserys very famously did not insist on regions for him.
01:02:39.857 --> 01:02:44.858
[SPEAKER_01]: He just wanted because they just come off a region see that was filled with like snakes in the grass.
01:02:44.898 --> 01:02:46.518
[SPEAKER_01]: People trying to take over the seven kingdom.
01:02:46.538 --> 01:02:48.299
[SPEAKER_01]: So they weren't going to do that again.
01:02:49.859 --> 01:02:51.539
[SPEAKER_01]: But Darren decided to go to war
01:02:54.140 --> 01:02:58.143
[SPEAKER_01]: that tens of thousands died, he conquered Dorn.
01:02:58.963 --> 01:03:07.289
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, and then the second he left, the Dornish small folk just killed everybody left behind, which is what always happens when people try to conquer Dorn.
01:03:07.489 --> 01:03:08.389
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, yeah, I did it.
01:03:08.449 --> 01:03:13.573
[SPEAKER_01]: I conquered Dorn, they leave and the Dorn are just like, no, no, you know.
01:03:13.633 --> 01:03:18.196
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't conquer Dorn, you came and camped out here for a while and we let you and then you left.
01:03:18.756 --> 01:03:19.577
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's Dorn again.
01:03:23.179 --> 01:03:25.147
[SPEAKER_01]: because he conquered Dorn, he left.
01:03:26.108 --> 01:03:28.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Immediately the Dornish rose up.
01:03:28.850 --> 01:03:33.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots more people died and then he went back to negotiate a piece and they just murdered him.
01:03:34.074 --> 01:03:43.141
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren, Darren the first, you know, Baylor the blessed had to do what he did because of the ruinous war of Darren the first.
01:03:43.701 --> 01:03:50.126
[SPEAKER_01]: So he is regarded as like a brilliant military mind like he did wage a successful campaign in Dorn.
01:03:55.650 --> 01:04:03.433
[SPEAKER_01]: He just didn't, if he wanted to rule as much as he wanted to get glory, he could have been a great king, but he wasn't.
01:04:03.853 --> 01:04:07.335
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a perfect, perfect or word for it.
01:04:07.355 --> 01:04:09.335
[SPEAKER_02]: Just wanted to go out there and get glory.
01:04:09.355 --> 01:04:10.416
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all you wanted to do.
01:04:10.656 --> 01:04:11.676
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to prove.
01:04:12.136 --> 01:04:15.458
[SPEAKER_02]: And I understand that you want to re establish House Targaryen.
01:04:15.478 --> 01:04:17.858
[SPEAKER_02]: You're coming off a time where you did have dragons.
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:18.599
[SPEAKER_02]: They're still,
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:36.380
[SPEAKER_02]: One wild dragon out there somewhere, maybe there are a few little stunted dragons still around, but you're like, wow, my house used to be the house that Command the skies and you do feel a little lesser, like you want to be the one to reclaim something, do something that no other dragon writers ever done.
01:04:36.680 --> 01:04:37.641
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're like, okay.
01:04:38.262 --> 01:04:53.478
[SPEAKER_02]: go take door but like why like what what's the that is that your only motivation it didn't didn't he write that horrible book about the door to people that describe it wasn't he the one that named him like salty dornish so he's dornish saying to him.
01:04:54.058 --> 01:05:21.143
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you might be right because he wrote it was like his Chronicle of his campaign so it was very much a here's what the door to show like as I'm fighting them was kind of the thing and it is like it you know the septons all or the the mysters I'll really like it because it's a very good firsthand you know resource of what happened but yeah, not the most flattering for the door-nish for sure
01:05:23.366 --> 01:05:25.028
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, not going to make him look good.
01:05:25.048 --> 01:05:45.089
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't trying to make him look good, but just the kingdom he inherited wasn't a complete success coming off a gun, the third, maybe not, but it wasn't like it was we needed another war.
01:05:45.649 --> 01:05:48.790
[SPEAKER_02]: They found that war before it wasn't another war that was needed.
01:05:48.910 --> 01:05:51.751
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't there to really help the people in any way.
01:05:51.831 --> 01:05:58.753
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just to show the the lords of the reach in the storm lands like, hey, let's go carve out a piece of the of door.
01:05:59.173 --> 01:06:01.213
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally totally.
01:06:01.613 --> 01:06:06.155
[SPEAKER_01]: He had the the choice to establish even more stability for the seven kingdoms.
01:06:06.215 --> 01:06:07.515
[SPEAKER_01]: And he decided to go to war.
01:06:08.965 --> 01:06:14.168
[SPEAKER_01]: what 20, where are we, egg on the third rule for 26 years.
01:06:14.208 --> 01:06:18.170
[SPEAKER_01]: So 30, a year is after the end of the dance, give or take.
01:06:18.430 --> 01:06:23.053
[SPEAKER_01]: He decided, let's do another, after the most devastating civil war in the history of the seven kingdoms.
01:06:23.073 --> 01:06:26.275
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, guess we could maybe use another war.
01:06:27.436 --> 01:06:29.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he definitely,
01:06:31.889 --> 01:06:50.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Could have really just help the seven kingdoms be a better place than he didn't so yeah and he died so quickly he really didn't leave much of an impact aside from that one war that's really it also although he did also lose the crown of egg on the conqueror so if you ever wondered where that went.
01:06:51.929 --> 01:06:52.549
[SPEAKER_01]: Darren's fault.
01:06:52.869 --> 01:06:54.370
[SPEAKER_01]: He lost the door when he died.
01:06:55.670 --> 01:06:56.350
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
01:06:56.390 --> 01:06:59.291
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll see it in the, in the winter winter.
01:06:59.451 --> 01:07:00.332
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything happens in winter.
01:07:00.352 --> 01:07:01.612
[SPEAKER_02]: Right exactly.
01:07:02.052 --> 01:07:13.876
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I know we, we're, this is going to be a long show buckle in viewers listeners, because we got a few more to go, who is your last the best Targaryen King in your eyes.
01:07:15.062 --> 01:07:30.488
[SPEAKER_02]: or coming off the loss of egg on the conquerors crown i'm going to say the best king i guess in my opinion the the best king of them all egg on the conqueror demand that help established the seven kingdoms the way they were i mean he was him he made all this possible
01:07:31.148 --> 01:07:32.730
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, he had great people riding on me.
01:07:32.750 --> 01:07:33.990
[SPEAKER_02]: He had his two sister wives.
01:07:34.231 --> 01:07:38.093
[SPEAKER_02]: He had Orris Baratheon, along with other great houses as well.
01:07:38.173 --> 01:07:43.257
[SPEAKER_02]: But after he made this every kingdom, he was able to establish a foothold in the reach.
01:07:43.317 --> 01:07:44.898
[SPEAKER_02]: I put in a house to our rail in charge.
01:07:45.078 --> 01:07:50.222
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to get his half rather Orris Baratheon, put him into storms and get them under control.
01:07:50.622 --> 01:07:54.446
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to create the small council like that didn't exist.
01:07:54.706 --> 01:08:05.416
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the one that gave order to the people around him that would help him govern the realm and creating the small council with the guidance from his sister wife, the senior he created the King's Guard.
01:08:05.576 --> 01:08:10.380
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we need someone who dedicated to protect the world family and help lead our armies.
01:08:10.420 --> 01:08:17.146
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get the best nights in the realm and put them in order to, you know, make sure we don't get assassinated all the time.
01:08:18.907 --> 01:08:20.388
[SPEAKER_02]: can't we just keep going on?
01:08:20.488 --> 01:08:24.890
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but he, he's the one that made all this possible.
01:08:25.410 --> 01:08:31.773
[SPEAKER_02]: I really don't have anything negative to say about him, besides all the crazy war to make it happen.
01:08:31.793 --> 01:08:32.173
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that bad?
01:08:32.193 --> 01:08:33.414
[SPEAKER_02]: Should he have probably burned hair and haul to a Chris?
01:08:33.434 --> 01:08:34.714
[SPEAKER_02]: What are those innocent people in it?
01:08:34.734 --> 01:08:42.618
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
01:08:43.418 --> 01:08:44.199
[SPEAKER_02]: He made it possible.
01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:47.761
[SPEAKER_02]: So he brought an age of peace that Westeros had never seen.
01:08:47.862 --> 01:08:52.025
[SPEAKER_02]: Before that, there were wars all the time, more small skirmishes.
01:08:54.206 --> 01:08:56.828
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the one that made it like, hey, let's stop there.
01:08:57.028 --> 01:09:00.731
[SPEAKER_02]: There are no more small wars.
01:09:00.751 --> 01:09:03.133
[SPEAKER_02]: Did it kind of make brain wars to a bigger scale?
01:09:03.433 --> 01:09:05.335
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but that's just a side effect.
01:09:06.195 --> 01:09:06.956
[SPEAKER_02]: I stopped one thing.
01:09:06.976 --> 01:09:07.837
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't stop everything.
01:09:11.158 --> 01:09:14.721
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's just undisputedly got to be near the top of the list.
01:09:14.881 --> 01:09:21.307
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if I have to look at my ultimate top to it's going to be Egon and Jeharris probably.
01:09:22.147 --> 01:09:33.597
[SPEAKER_01]: But Egon, you know, you're right, like aside from the conquest, which like, you know, we got the lower reveal potentially in-house of the dragon that he may have had a prophetic dream that fueled that.
01:09:33.617 --> 01:09:37.260
[SPEAKER_01]: But that aside, he wanted to unite the seven kingdoms.
01:09:37.420 --> 01:09:37.921
[SPEAKER_01]: He did.
01:09:38.822 --> 01:09:43.428
[SPEAKER_01]: He pulled it off, could have been a lot worse, bloodshed-wise than it was honestly.
01:09:43.588 --> 01:09:54.502
[SPEAKER_01]: He did one thing that he and Robert Baratheon have in common, that I think all the best kings on this list have in common is when people submitted to hit him, he let them.
01:09:55.003 --> 01:09:56.684
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, he didn't dishonor them.
01:09:56.724 --> 01:09:58.165
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't take everything away from them.
01:09:58.205 --> 01:10:00.767
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, great, you can, you can serve me.
01:10:00.907 --> 01:10:07.432
[SPEAKER_01]: That, you know, he like bending the knee be an honorable option for people and because of that, they did.
01:10:08.813 --> 01:10:13.136
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I got on the first like, like you said, like, what negative is there to say about him?
01:10:13.297 --> 01:10:15.238
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he did a bad job raising his kids.
01:10:15.758 --> 01:10:18.560
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they had different influences around them.
01:10:18.901 --> 01:10:22.283
[SPEAKER_01]: Anis, he probably probably could have done a better job,
01:10:25.683 --> 01:10:40.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless he did that, you know, it's I'm saying this and I'm like, did he not compare it to like the seri the book doesn't make it a point that he did a bad job of raising And he's I guess I would say in the same way that like the seris did a bad job raising his kids
01:10:41.690 --> 01:10:49.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I guess you could look at it as, you know, his wife, Randy's had passed away the mother of Annie's.
01:10:50.014 --> 01:10:58.377
[SPEAKER_02]: So he had to take our responsibility, probably more, you know, of course the hand maids around her are influencing of Annie's.
01:10:59.833 --> 01:11:05.638
[SPEAKER_02]: Eggon did make it a point to bring Amy's with him when he did do his processions across Westero.
01:11:05.679 --> 01:11:08.381
[SPEAKER_02]: So he did have these other influences.
01:11:08.401 --> 01:11:10.683
[SPEAKER_02]: He did see Eggon in action.
01:11:10.883 --> 01:11:13.446
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, everyone just doesn't have it in them to be.
01:11:14.835 --> 01:11:24.019
[SPEAKER_02]: to be good at whatever they're doing, like maybe Amy's can't be a starting quarterback up at NFL team, but you know, somebody has to help wrap tape around people.
01:11:24.039 --> 01:11:26.861
[SPEAKER_02]: He probably should be the leadership position.
01:11:26.921 --> 01:11:28.561
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only so much egg on, can do in that.
01:11:28.801 --> 01:11:30.522
[SPEAKER_02]: It ended with his other son, Megor.
01:11:30.822 --> 01:11:40.627
[SPEAKER_02]: He still had his wife, Pesignio, who, you know, instilled in Megor that you have to be the greatest warrior ever, ever, and you are being slid it by your father and your older brother.
01:11:40.667 --> 01:11:42.708
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to make up for it in these other ways.
01:11:43.148 --> 01:11:53.173
[SPEAKER_02]: just so different influences in their lives, but in terms of Aegon's influence over the seven kingdoms, I mean, he established all, everyone has just had great reverence for him.
01:11:53.573 --> 01:12:00.476
[SPEAKER_02]: No one, I've never heard in my reading of Fire and Blood or a word of I aspire to somebody say like, you know what, I couldn't stand that guy.
01:12:00.636 --> 01:12:02.097
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, shout, shout out to Aegon.
01:12:02.257 --> 01:12:02.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Nah.
01:12:02.917 --> 01:12:09.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And here, I'm going to read a passage here from Fire and Blood, our Archmacer Gil Day in writing this down.
01:12:10.100 --> 01:12:15.963
[SPEAKER_01]: 16 Targaryens followed egg on the dragon to the Iron Throne before the dynasty was a last toppled in Roberts, Rebellion.
01:12:16.283 --> 01:12:20.605
[SPEAKER_01]: They numbered amongst them wise men and foolish, cruel men and kind, good men and evil.
01:12:21.045 --> 01:12:33.819
[SPEAKER_01]: Yet, if the dragon kings are considered solely on the basis of their legacies, the laws and institutions and improvements they left behind, the name of Kigaya Ga on the first belongs near the top of the list in peace, as well as in war.
01:12:34.440 --> 01:12:37.363
[SPEAKER_01]: So, how can he not be near the top of our list?
01:12:37.703 --> 01:12:39.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are we to disagree with Archmacer Gildan?
01:12:40.972 --> 01:12:41.392
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't.
01:12:41.592 --> 01:12:42.553
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't.
01:12:43.133 --> 01:12:43.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fair.
01:12:44.193 --> 01:12:44.874
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great choice.
01:12:46.134 --> 01:12:46.854
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got to be there.
01:12:47.014 --> 01:12:48.115
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a given for a reason.
01:12:49.735 --> 01:12:55.938
[SPEAKER_01]: My last best one, I will tell you, I agonized over whether he should be on the best or the worst list.
01:12:56.138 --> 01:12:59.459
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to know what you think, whether he should be one of the best or the worst.
01:12:59.979 --> 01:13:01.480
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is egg on the fifth.
01:13:02.320 --> 01:13:04.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Egg from anite of the Seven Kingdoms.
01:13:05.541 --> 01:13:13.302
[SPEAKER_01]: So Eggon was known as Agami unlikely because he was so far down the line of succession, nobody assumed he'd be king.
01:13:13.342 --> 01:13:15.302
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the fourth son of a fourth son.
01:13:15.942 --> 01:13:23.384
[SPEAKER_01]: There were pestilences and wars and accidents like Baylor dying at Ashford Meadow.
01:13:24.024 --> 01:13:28.004
[SPEAKER_01]: All these different things kind of conspired to make Egg become king.
01:13:28.364 --> 01:13:30.425
[SPEAKER_01]: He became king at a great council where
01:13:31.585 --> 01:13:36.171
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, his father may car, you know, didn't have an obvious air.
01:13:36.692 --> 01:13:45.262
[SPEAKER_01]: There was, uh, the, I think the daughter of one of his kids, there was the,
01:13:47.900 --> 01:13:54.982
[SPEAKER_01]: son Megor of Ari and Bright Flame, who nobody wanted to be the king and he was also a child.
01:13:55.182 --> 01:13:58.683
[SPEAKER_01]: There was Amen who was a maester, maester Amen from Game of Thrones.
01:13:58.943 --> 01:14:08.086
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Aege who was considered half a peasant, the Lord's all hated Aege because he spent most of his life with peasants because he was dunked squire.
01:14:08.986 --> 01:14:09.807
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was a,
01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:16.341
[SPEAKER_01]: black fire who came over to try to claim the crown during this great council.
01:14:17.702 --> 01:14:20.123
[SPEAKER_01]: So ultimately they ended up going with egg.
01:14:21.483 --> 01:14:31.106
[SPEAKER_01]: And egg was a really probably one of the most divisive rulers of the seven kingdoms because he had lived with the peasants.
01:14:31.506 --> 01:14:37.568
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the only Targaryen king who lived with peasants for a lot of his life.
01:14:38.029 --> 01:14:40.910
[SPEAKER_01]: He did a lot of policies that were really progressive
01:14:42.390 --> 01:14:49.134
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the small folk reduce some of the powers of the lords, which really did not go over well with them.
01:14:49.475 --> 01:14:53.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of the nobles hated egg, a lot of the small folk loved egg.
01:14:53.777 --> 01:14:55.839
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of walked this interesting balance.
01:14:56.379 --> 01:15:01.282
[SPEAKER_01]: And then his problem, like so many of the others, was partially as kids.
01:15:01.662 --> 01:15:05.545
[SPEAKER_01]: He made a bunch of betrothals because he was the first Targaryen ruler to say,
01:15:07.606 --> 01:15:12.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's not doing great things to the kids we make that they're all in sestuous.
01:15:12.987 --> 01:15:21.469
[SPEAKER_01]: So he tried to use his kids for political marriages, but the problem was that Egg married for love because he assumed he would never be king.
01:15:21.969 --> 01:15:23.209
[SPEAKER_01]: He married Beth a blackwood.
01:15:23.649 --> 01:15:26.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody cared because he was the fourth son of a fourth son.
01:15:27.130 --> 01:15:29.791
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all his kids said, hey, maybe we should marry for love.
01:15:29.811 --> 01:15:30.911
[SPEAKER_01]: And they all did what they wanted.
01:15:31.431 --> 01:15:31.511
[SPEAKER_01]: And
01:15:32.490 --> 01:15:50.094
[SPEAKER_01]: for his eldest that meant breaking a betrothal that would have seen him married to the daughter of Lionel Baraffian, which started a rebellion for Jenny of Old Stones, a peasant who lived out in the riverlands which the singers loved.
01:15:50.274 --> 01:15:53.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, egg with his kids even being close to the peasants.
01:15:54.195 --> 01:15:58.836
[SPEAKER_01]: He had two other kids who wanted to start practicing incest again, which is where the Targaryen dynasty
01:16:01.817 --> 01:16:10.332
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, just in general, he definitely, I don't know, had had good and bad in equal measure.
01:16:10.773 --> 01:16:13.557
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think, one of the better ones are one of the worse?
01:16:15.023 --> 01:16:31.578
[SPEAKER_02]: Except one of the better kings and like you said he he wanted to do good by the small folk He was around them so much more than probably any other Targaryen before him or really after him besides probably Daenerys in the series Targaryen that was really you know, hey
01:16:33.040 --> 01:16:36.624
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I come from this high position, but I'm with you right now.
01:16:36.765 --> 01:16:37.846
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm living amongst you.
01:16:38.026 --> 01:16:39.989
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing what you're doing every day.
01:16:40.129 --> 01:16:47.318
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing the things you're doing every day, and you just don't get there from anybody so high up of high station as a Targaryen, but
01:16:49.034 --> 01:16:53.438
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, it kind of, and for his kids, you know, it's good they married for love.
01:16:53.578 --> 01:16:55.560
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't blame Egg for that.
01:16:55.640 --> 01:16:58.042
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can't help it, your kids are doing what you did.
01:16:58.142 --> 01:17:02.426
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not really a bad thing except when it calls a minor rebellion with the Stormlands.
01:17:02.446 --> 01:17:03.086
[SPEAKER_02]: Can't be bad.
01:17:03.527 --> 01:17:04.768
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't blame Egg, though, for that.
01:17:05.428 --> 01:17:09.732
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess he did have some issues when it comes over there to Summer Hall.
01:17:10.312 --> 01:17:11.874
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can... Yeah.
01:17:12.616 --> 01:17:24.622
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know what the issue, that's one of the things, the hard thing about Egg is so much is intentionally left a mystery for now, because George Armour obviously wants to write it still for the Duncan Egg not novellas.
01:17:25.143 --> 01:17:33.667
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know what happened at Summer Hall, but it did mess up Eris, probably kind of led to the downfall of the Targaryens, so Eggs got that on him too.
01:17:34.768 --> 01:17:38.590
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know what, I, I, I secretly hope that it wasn't,
01:17:39.832 --> 01:17:40.833
[SPEAKER_02]: completely his fault.
01:17:40.893 --> 01:17:43.976
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, how much do you blame on magical dreams?
01:17:43.996 --> 01:17:53.205
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you somebody sends you a magical dream, and then I try to do the magical dream, it goes wrong or something outside influence causes to go wrong.
01:17:53.245 --> 01:17:54.126
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, how you blame me?
01:17:54.486 --> 01:17:55.847
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing a magical dream.
01:17:55.867 --> 01:17:58.510
[SPEAKER_02]: I was the fire magic was in my head.
01:17:59.593 --> 01:18:00.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
01:18:01.376 --> 01:18:02.657
[SPEAKER_01]: So, was it his fault?
01:18:02.878 --> 01:18:03.519
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:05.041
[SPEAKER_01]: We may never know.
01:18:05.061 --> 01:18:09.567
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that we find out at some point, whether that's from the novellas or a night of the seven kingdoms.
01:18:10.088 --> 01:18:14.494
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the thing to take away is that egg was a king who
01:18:16.379 --> 01:18:31.033
[SPEAKER_01]: was not prepared to rule who was not brought up to rule like was not assumed he would be a ruler and he still managed to come in during a period so like where there were a bunch of extra black fire rebellions because there were a bunch of them.
01:18:31.454 --> 01:18:35.017
[SPEAKER_01]: He had to deal with a bunch of them and he did it successfully.
01:18:35.037 --> 01:18:36.679
[SPEAKER_01]: He kept the seven kingdoms together.
01:18:36.699 --> 01:18:39.601
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of set the stage for his
01:18:40.382 --> 01:18:44.969
[SPEAKER_01]: successor, who is named, I am blanking on.
01:18:45.090 --> 01:18:46.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Jaeheris, right?
01:18:47.053 --> 01:18:49.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Jaeheris, the second.
01:18:49.997 --> 01:18:51.219
[SPEAKER_01]: To do a good job, still.
01:18:51.299 --> 01:18:53.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he only ruled for three years, Jaeheris the second.
01:18:55.606 --> 01:19:07.251
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of left the kingdoms with some some problems, you know, the nobles were upset, but not enough problems that his successor couldn't come in and just kind of very successfully follow him.
01:19:08.652 --> 01:19:10.172
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know.
01:19:10.833 --> 01:19:12.934
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess one of the few who passed the baton well.
01:19:14.154 --> 01:19:18.396
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, they want to pass it like that, because yeah, I don't know if you just send it to
01:19:23.390 --> 01:19:34.098
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like you said, though, it was it was set up for the next person to really take the mantle and keep, how's our gear going, at least for two more kings.
01:19:34.198 --> 01:19:35.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:38.021
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are running wicked long here.
01:19:38.081 --> 01:19:42.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try to wrap our last two up in relatively quick fashion.
01:19:42.305 --> 01:19:45.807
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got two more worse to go through.
01:19:45.847 --> 01:19:47.289
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got done all our best.
01:19:48.089 --> 01:19:51.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is your last worst king of West
01:19:52.861 --> 01:19:55.365
[SPEAKER_02]: Egg all the one worthy because he's already put it in the net.
01:19:55.385 --> 01:19:56.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
01:19:56.867 --> 01:19:57.248
[SPEAKER_01]: The worst.
01:19:57.448 --> 01:19:57.868
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:19:58.129 --> 01:19:58.990
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a bad guy.
01:19:59.110 --> 01:20:01.574
[SPEAKER_02]: Easily influenced people could manipulate him.
01:20:01.654 --> 01:20:02.395
[SPEAKER_02]: Give him a woman.
01:20:02.455 --> 01:20:04.518
[SPEAKER_02]: He was willing to do to help you.
01:20:04.558 --> 01:20:05.480
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, he could.
01:20:06.621 --> 01:20:07.302
[SPEAKER_02]: Brigham.
01:20:08.484 --> 01:20:10.425
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll throw away dragon eggs.
01:20:10.445 --> 01:20:12.907
[SPEAKER_02]: You do some good for me, like with Butterwell.
01:20:12.927 --> 01:20:14.368
[SPEAKER_02]: Butterwell gave up his three daughters.
01:20:15.229 --> 01:20:17.131
[SPEAKER_02]: Our boy, egg on the unworthy way.
01:20:17.171 --> 01:20:18.031
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's a dragon egg.
01:20:18.051 --> 01:20:18.672
[SPEAKER_02]: You good now.
01:20:18.992 --> 01:20:20.373
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything it works out for him.
01:20:21.114 --> 01:20:25.757
[SPEAKER_02]: And so so many bastards, so many women around.
01:20:26.778 --> 01:20:28.520
[SPEAKER_02]: legitimizing his bastards at the end.
01:20:28.580 --> 01:20:33.624
[SPEAKER_02]: He helped cause rebellions that plague house Targaryens for generations on.
01:20:33.924 --> 01:20:39.428
[SPEAKER_02]: up until the main start of the series, like Barrison the Bold, helped in the last Black Fire Rebellion.
01:20:39.448 --> 01:20:58.820
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how recent they were from Aegon the Unworthy, all because he was just a horrible king treated his wife horrible trying to force and how children when he just, she just really couldn't even more treating his son horrible, trying to spread rumors and he was a bastard and day-round the good.
01:21:01.757 --> 01:21:02.197
[SPEAKER_02]: just bad.
01:21:02.717 --> 01:21:05.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the takeaway with that gone the fourth.
01:21:05.499 --> 01:21:10.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of the other worst kings we've talked about are like bad in one specific way.
01:21:10.562 --> 01:21:11.963
[SPEAKER_01]: I got on the fourth.
01:21:12.704 --> 01:21:17.067
[SPEAKER_01]: The book says his his big flaw was he just couldn't resist any vice.
01:21:17.928 --> 01:21:19.270
[SPEAKER_01]: Any vice that came his way.
01:21:19.590 --> 01:21:20.371
[SPEAKER_01]: He needed to do it.
01:21:21.012 --> 01:21:21.833
[SPEAKER_01]: He was charming.
01:21:21.914 --> 01:21:22.975
[SPEAKER_01]: He was skilled at arms.
01:21:23.897 --> 01:21:28.884
[SPEAKER_01]: He had had for politics, but like just prone to doing bad stuff.
01:21:29.405 --> 01:21:33.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, any decision he had the choice to make, he just made a bad one.
01:21:33.791 --> 01:21:40.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and not bad and like, I'm going to destabilize the kingdoms with my stupidity bad and like he knew it was bad and he didn't care.
01:21:40.913 --> 01:21:45.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he just wanted to do the thing that rubbed against the grain always.
01:21:45.955 --> 01:21:50.636
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to sleep with he claimed 900 women during his reign.
01:21:50.856 --> 01:21:57.518
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to father 100 bastards and then legitimize them all and like you said like the bad part of his reign.
01:21:57.598 --> 01:21:59.098
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not even just that his reign was bad.
01:21:59.359 --> 01:22:00.379
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like,
01:22:00.999 --> 01:22:16.287
[SPEAKER_01]: the most rampant corruption probably in the history of the seven kingdoms, the way he just like on a whim, like took things from people, gave it to other people, took wealth he wanted from lords, like did whatever, especially for the people in King's Landing.
01:22:16.307 --> 01:22:22.630
[SPEAKER_01]: For, you know, the lords like in the north, like agon the unworthy kind of probably passed relatively unnoticed.
01:22:23.190 --> 01:22:27.652
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of the stuff he did, but for the people who were like in his sphere, he was really bad.
01:22:28.452 --> 01:22:35.374
[SPEAKER_01]: But he left a legacy of destabilizing the seven kingdoms because of that legitimizing all those bastards.
01:22:35.854 --> 01:22:42.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And like he gave Damon Blackfire, the sword Blackfire gave it away to one of his bastards, the sword of Targaryen kings.
01:22:43.837 --> 01:22:45.638
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a problem.
01:22:46.858 --> 01:22:51.460
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably one of the worst worst kings that has the longest lasting legacy from
01:22:53.504 --> 01:23:12.170
[SPEAKER_02]: even today like we to the golden company is only for because of everything he did in causing his bastards losing the war and going open to themselves and forming that company like certain houses that probably probably don't even exist anymore because of what Egon Egon doesn't worthy had done.
01:23:12.695 --> 01:23:13.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
01:23:13.675 --> 01:23:29.800
[SPEAKER_01]: He really did like it, you know, who knows how differently things would have gone for like, egg, and all the other kings that followed agon, if he hadn't done the things he'd done, like he really did just like put a curse on the rest of his bloodline.
01:23:29.880 --> 01:23:31.381
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you said, like barrised in.
01:23:32.121 --> 01:23:37.245
[SPEAKER_01]: killed, you know, the, I think it's made least a mantra, monstrous master.
01:23:37.386 --> 01:23:48.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the last black fire rebellion, like really all the way down to pretty much Game of Thrones, agonsoed, you know, the seeds for discontent and rebellion and stuff.
01:23:48.355 --> 01:23:53.459
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, agon, the unworthy, he deserves the name totally, totally, totally,
01:23:54.440 --> 01:23:55.741
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's speculation too.
01:23:55.761 --> 01:24:07.267
[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot about this till I I brushed up for this show that he might have even poisoned his father with Viserys the second who was a good king That's the Reneuras youngest son, Viserys.
01:24:07.627 --> 01:24:19.813
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the hand to a few kings before him like Darren the good and bailer the blessed and then he was the king for I think like a year two years two years and then I think it was one
01:24:20.073 --> 01:24:31.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, one year and then it's speculated he was poisoned by agon the uncrowned or agon the unworthy too many agons so yeah definitely one of the worst
01:24:32.474 --> 01:24:39.736
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, definitely earned, but I guess, who do you have as the last worst disking of the seven kingdoms?
01:24:40.136 --> 01:24:47.357
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we're running down to the drags here because a lot of, I don't think any of the ones we have left are really terrible.
01:24:47.657 --> 01:24:50.398
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you've really had the, the really awful ones.
01:24:50.578 --> 01:24:57.140
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've had on a few that really botched the job like the Sarah's and Darren, the one I'm going to pick and it's not his fault.
01:24:57.300 --> 01:24:58.280
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be clear about this.
01:24:58.960 --> 01:25:02.842
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't a great king, but it wasn't his fault.
01:25:02.862 --> 01:25:12.447
[SPEAKER_01]: Is Egon the third, Egon the unlucky, as he's known, or the dragon bane, because the last dragons died on his watch.
01:25:13.267 --> 01:25:16.209
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Egon the third is Reneera Targaryen's son.
01:25:16.529 --> 01:25:20.611
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the one who succeeds to the Iron Throne after the dance of the dragons.
01:25:20.991 --> 01:25:25.574
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a long regency where he's essentially a puppet king and he has this hand.
01:25:26.354 --> 01:25:39.079
[SPEAKER_01]: unwin peak who decides he's going to use the position of hands to try to restore glory to his house and he names a bunch of his relatives to a bunch of important jobs and excludes agon at every chance he gets.
01:25:40.899 --> 01:25:42.220
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of reasons why agon
01:25:45.159 --> 01:26:00.238
[SPEAKER_01]: is you know is troubled we can say he's a melancholy king he's called the broken king but ultimately once he takes over the iron throne the big problem with Egon is that he's just not really that interested in
01:26:02.120 --> 01:26:05.421
[SPEAKER_01]: ruling well and connecting with the lords and the small folk.
01:26:05.721 --> 01:26:08.142
[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of cold and detached.
01:26:09.123 --> 01:26:10.443
[SPEAKER_01]: He tries to do a good job.
01:26:10.503 --> 01:26:16.585
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that he doesn't, but he's so scarred and traumatized from everything he's gone through.
01:26:16.605 --> 01:26:17.186
[SPEAKER_01]: That
01:26:18.506 --> 01:26:20.087
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't really build bridges.
01:26:20.187 --> 01:26:23.148
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, his brother Vassaris can Vassaris.
01:26:23.168 --> 01:26:25.630
[SPEAKER_01]: So I believe his hand as well for a lot of his reign.
01:26:26.410 --> 01:26:38.256
[SPEAKER_01]: And helps his kids rule Darren and Baylor, but Agon's just too messed up to really fully do the job that was needed after the dance of the dragons.
01:26:38.916 --> 01:26:40.677
[SPEAKER_01]: And I suppose in some ways he did, right?
01:26:40.697 --> 01:26:42.718
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he did keep the seven kingdoms going.
01:26:42.758 --> 01:26:47.201
[SPEAKER_01]: He did leave some good airs, good and bad airs, you know, with Darren and Baylor.
01:26:48.081 --> 01:26:51.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but really he just went through too much.
01:26:51.702 --> 01:27:07.288
[SPEAKER_01]: He watched his mom get eaten by a dragon, just couldn't fully restore house Targaryen to its glory, but I mean, he did an okay job, but his big, his big flaw was just not fully engaging because he was just too broken.
01:27:08.621 --> 01:27:13.105
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, war changes people for better or worse, even the ones that don't fight.
01:27:13.165 --> 01:27:19.250
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, especially for him, he was so close to the war to the fighting for what he's had to see and view.
01:27:19.370 --> 01:27:36.404
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to watch your mother get eaten by a dragon, and you're not going to be the same after that, trying to navigate people rolling through you, not trusting you to do anything, even when you're trying to do your best, pushing you to the side as unwind peak did.
01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:44.084
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a more of an unfortunate rain because it's like like what could have happened, what could he have been?
01:27:44.204 --> 01:27:46.485
[SPEAKER_02]: Could he have been a decent king as one of those things you'll never know?
01:27:46.505 --> 01:27:52.510
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of a worse king like just a sad, sad king, sad rule.
01:27:52.952 --> 01:28:18.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, yeah, it is, that's the case for some of these and it's definitely as for him like if he didn't inherit the dance of the dragons word which looks like at the end of it, it's like him and his brother Viserys are and Bala and Reina Targaryen are basically like the only Targaryens left like there's not a lot of there as few Targaryens as there are dragons just about and yeah, he just.
01:28:20.285 --> 01:28:24.590
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he just weathered thing after thing after thing after thing and
01:28:26.829 --> 01:28:30.890
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just made it hard for him to really fully care.
01:28:31.210 --> 01:28:39.713
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, not that he didn't care, but to be able to connect with his people, both high-born and low-born, just kind of kept everybody at a distance.
01:28:40.553 --> 01:28:44.494
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all he could do really after everything he'd endured.
01:28:44.554 --> 01:28:53.957
[SPEAKER_01]: So fortunately, the realm did have the Sarah's to kind of guide his brothers children after he passed away and keep the lineage going after they passed away.
01:28:55.897 --> 01:28:57.098
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the broken.
01:28:57.878 --> 01:29:01.979
[SPEAKER_01]: He is, I think, one of the worst through almost no fault of his own.
01:29:02.860 --> 01:29:04.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I'll believe that.
01:29:06.401 --> 01:29:06.621
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:29:06.661 --> 01:29:06.841
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:29:06.881 --> 01:29:11.263
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we had some good best in worse Targaryens.
01:29:11.963 --> 01:29:14.784
[SPEAKER_02]: About to say, please, anybody that's watching, please go to the comments.
01:29:15.204 --> 01:29:21.767
[SPEAKER_02]: Let us know where we were right, where we were wrong and give your own list on who do you think some of the best in worse Targaryens
01:29:22.227 --> 01:29:22.928
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
01:29:23.048 --> 01:29:25.070
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have hot takes on these, we want to hear them.
01:29:25.210 --> 01:29:32.176
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to tell us why our hot takes made you furious or you agree with them, let us know in the comments.
01:29:32.517 --> 01:29:37.581
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find take the black on all your usual podcast platforms, like, subscribe.
01:29:37.902 --> 01:29:38.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Come back next week.
01:29:38.642 --> 01:29:40.985
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about more Westeros stuff.
01:29:41.185 --> 01:29:43.407
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure more fantasy and sci-fi stuff.
01:29:44.027 --> 01:29:53.530
[SPEAKER_01]: If you enjoyed this, you can read articles in this vein on winter is coming dot net every day and Mark work in the people find you outside of this podcast.
01:29:54.511 --> 01:30:06.275
[SPEAKER_02]: People want to find me go over to that fun app we call TikTok if you look up house underscore of underscore nettles house of nettles you see the space you're in the right place also on Instagram in YouTube as well.
01:30:06.915 --> 01:30:10.337
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening.
01:30:10.477 --> 01:30:11.678
[SPEAKER_01]: We've gone so long on this.
01:30:11.758 --> 01:30:13.239
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you had as much fun as we did.
01:30:13.819 --> 01:30:16.661
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, until next time, we'll see you in Westeros.
01:30:19.543 --> 01:30:22.425
[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is brought to you by fan side.
01:30:22.465 --> 01:30:28.569
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00:09.035 --> 00:23.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome to Take The Black, you're one and only a fantasy sci-fi podcast that dives deep into the world of Westeros, the works of George R. Martin, United of the Seven Kingdoms, House of the Dragon, of
00:24.037 --> 00:31.979
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, Game of Thrones, that show and all the rest of that stuff, and today Fire and Blood and the World of Ice and Fire as well.
00:33.040 --> 00:41.122
[SPEAKER_01]: I am one of your host Daniel Roman, the editor of Winter is coming.net, and I'm psyched as always to be joined by my co-host Mark Nettles of House of Nettles.
00:41.582 --> 00:42.223
[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing, Mark?
00:43.603 --> 00:44.263
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing good!
00:44.283 --> 00:49.445
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, some days I wake up, and I think I can name all the Targaryen monarchs in order.
00:51.009 --> 00:52.792
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe I can't, am I gonna do that right now?
00:52.852 --> 00:56.597
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that'll be silly pants or me, but I think I can't.
00:56.838 --> 00:57.719
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever tried?
00:57.739 --> 00:58.941
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:00.263 --> 01:00.663
[SPEAKER_01]: I did it.
01:00.683 --> 01:01.204
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
01:01.725 --> 01:03.588
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did you do it?
01:05.410 --> 01:06.011
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I could.
01:06.945 --> 01:08.226
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think I did do it actually.
01:08.266 --> 01:10.107
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I did it.
01:10.527 --> 01:11.107
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it.
01:11.467 --> 01:25.874
[SPEAKER_01]: I just finished a reread of fire and blood literally two days ago and then looked at the chart in the back of it because there's a chart of all of them and I impressed myself by naming them all 20 minutes later and that's about it.
01:26.154 --> 01:30.676
[SPEAKER_01]: And then this morning I was trying to think of them for this show and I was like, I'm forgetting like five of them.
01:30.756 --> 01:34.038
[SPEAKER_01]: So the recent the recent sea helped a lot.
01:35.688 --> 01:52.954
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so viewers listeners, welcome, we have a really fun show for you guys today that I've been pretty excited for, which is, we're going to talk about the Targaryen rulers, we're going to dive deep, we're going to name our best, our favorites, who we think was awful for the seven kingdoms, all that kind of stuff.
01:53.714 --> 02:00.261
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, before we get there, we do have some updates to talk about as we always do just like when there's news and Westeros.
02:00.542 --> 02:03.044
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's do that so we can get to like the funnest stuff.
02:03.645 --> 02:05.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but the updates kind of fun too.
02:06.168 --> 02:09.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Mark, did you see the Emmys on Monday or any of it?
02:10.794 --> 02:14.856
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw all the highlights the next day because I'm a elder and needed to go to sleep.
02:16.176 --> 02:23.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Same, same, yes, I am an elder and need to go to sleep, but also don't really want to bother with a peacock subscription.
02:24.340 --> 02:28.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I mean, but there's a lot of West Rose stuff.
02:28.662 --> 02:31.963
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have any like favorite West Rose thing you saw there?
02:31.983 --> 02:37.406
[SPEAKER_01]: Because night of the seven kingdoms up for outstanding drama series didn't win it, but still feel like a party.
02:38.486 --> 02:59.851
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, we got to see two of our Targaryen Queens up on the stage between Emma Darcy and Emily, Emily, Amelia Clark, yeah, and it got to see them speak well, Emily Clark speak in high ballarians, so all the audience going, ooh, and I said this on our course social media pages, did I understand what she said in the moment?
03:00.271 --> 03:06.393
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but I appreciated the, the ambiance they were giving us and I felt like we was getting a little sneak peek.
03:06.633 --> 03:08.476
[SPEAKER_02]: into Westeros on the image page.
03:11.099 --> 03:17.388
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, um, I love, obviously, I'm a Darry and Amelia Clark presenting that award.
03:18.790 --> 03:20.673
[SPEAKER_01]: And the high Valirian bit was pretty,
03:21.706 --> 03:21.946
[SPEAKER_01]: fun.
03:22.346 --> 03:33.749
[SPEAKER_01]: For people who, what she said, David J. Peterson, who did all of the Hyvalierian for the show, all the Dothracky, he's what's called a con-laner, which means he makes up fictional languages.
03:34.709 --> 03:36.230
[SPEAKER_01]: He did post a translation of it.
03:36.690 --> 03:40.691
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said he was tapped two days before the Emmys to do this.
03:43.789 --> 03:44.950
[SPEAKER_01]: Hyvalierian speech.
03:45.610 --> 03:56.179
[SPEAKER_01]: And it said, it is an honor and a press you all, winners, television and throne that is television on this wonderful evening.
03:56.859 --> 04:01.483
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where Bill, you Clarke said in Hyvalierian, kiss your key, your curious.
04:01.863 --> 04:05.326
[SPEAKER_02]: Hahahaha, kiss you didn't have your dual-lingle out, ready to go.
04:05.846 --> 04:06.126
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
04:06.306 --> 04:07.908
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, this onto a lingo, isn't it?
04:09.933 --> 04:16.716
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best PR this year, but if you do want to learn a little bit of casual dual angle because of the rivalry and that's where you go.
04:17.056 --> 04:17.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:17.776 --> 04:18.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:18.376 --> 04:26.959
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was like the obvious, one of the obvious Westeros highlights, like it's so, it was so nice to hear Amelia Clark speaking high of the theory and again.
04:28.179 --> 04:34.542
[SPEAKER_01]: I also loved, have you seen the glam bot shot of Dexter Saul Ansel and Peter
04:36.335 --> 04:42.398
[SPEAKER_01]: where your coffee is holding him and he spins around and they like give the camera a face.
04:43.659 --> 04:45.140
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, sir, face, sir, face.
04:45.540 --> 04:46.721
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, now that was us cool.
04:46.781 --> 04:47.101
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy.
04:47.461 --> 04:50.203
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always good to see that they're always having fun.
04:50.223 --> 04:51.243
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
04:51.303 --> 04:53.925
[SPEAKER_02]: That he is able to keep it lighthearted with Daxter.
04:53.945 --> 04:57.146
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, hey, you're getting international fame right now, but it's guys.
04:57.467 --> 05:01.849
[SPEAKER_02]: So keep on being a, having a kids outlook on to the world.
05:02.275 --> 05:02.796
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
05:02.916 --> 05:06.199
[SPEAKER_01]: Dexter Saul Ansel just turned 12 happy birthday to him.
05:06.360 --> 05:08.602
[SPEAKER_01]: I think literally like yesterday.
05:09.863 --> 05:14.489
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, go into the Emmys just before your 12th birthday pretty cool.
05:14.769 --> 05:22.457
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's so whole some seeing how everyone from across the franchise and just in general,
05:23.218 --> 05:25.940
[SPEAKER_01]: like the vibes just felt really good and like really good for him.
05:25.980 --> 05:30.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he wanted his Emmy wish he said was he wanted to meet Zendaya in person.
05:31.223 --> 05:31.664
[SPEAKER_01]: And he did.
05:31.684 --> 05:36.747
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a picture on the ground online of him with Zendaya and like Tom Holland's there too.
05:37.127 --> 05:38.588
[SPEAKER_01]: But he was there for that man.
05:38.608 --> 05:38.708
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
05:38.728 --> 05:38.969
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
05:38.989 --> 05:39.089
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
05:39.309 --> 05:40.270
[SPEAKER_02]: Get out of the way Tom.
05:42.251 --> 05:43.452
[SPEAKER_01]: See like you had a great time.
05:43.552 --> 05:44.332
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that for him.
05:44.692 --> 05:45.133
[SPEAKER_01]: So fun.
05:46.392 --> 05:50.637
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he's taking cool pictures with your best buddy.
05:50.677 --> 06:03.412
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure like a birthday cake for HBO Max and there's a clip floating around of like George Armart and recording him with the birthday cake like
06:04.635 --> 06:06.516
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude's fantasy TV royalty.
06:07.296 --> 06:09.577
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like Prince Egg in real life now.
06:09.797 --> 06:10.797
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of with the other life.
06:12.038 --> 06:13.238
[SPEAKER_02]: We're all waiting for him to grow up.
06:13.338 --> 06:16.419
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we can't wait for you to play egg when he's a slightly young adult.
06:16.759 --> 06:18.480
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of king will you be?
06:18.740 --> 06:20.921
[SPEAKER_01]: We won there.
06:20.961 --> 06:21.921
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it.
06:22.822 --> 06:24.802
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the Emmys were a great time.
06:26.423 --> 06:31.368
[SPEAKER_01]: There was one, one or two small little bits of like actual news that came out of it.
06:31.748 --> 06:41.417
[SPEAKER_01]: So chairman and CEO of HBO and HBO Max content, Kasey Blois, he confirmed that a night of the seven kingdom season two is coming in the first half of 2027.
06:42.778 --> 06:43.819
[SPEAKER_01]: which he has said before.
06:43.899 --> 06:50.522
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is, it's being spun as like breaking news, but like he said this, I think it like the last award show he was at.
06:50.582 --> 06:53.083
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Casey Boyz does a lot of press at these sorts of things.
06:53.743 --> 06:54.243
[SPEAKER_01]: But we know it.
06:55.104 --> 06:55.604
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's cool.
06:55.884 --> 06:57.705
[SPEAKER_01]: First half of the year, January to June.
06:59.067 --> 07:04.614
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think we all, because they told us to come out yearly and I'm like, okay, well, I know it's going to come out.
07:05.394 --> 07:11.021
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes between January and like you said to June, maybe January to April, we're going to get it again.
07:11.041 --> 07:14.265
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, happy they are keeping that yearly release schedule.
07:14.845 --> 07:15.086
[SPEAKER_01]: God.
07:15.106 --> 07:18.789
[SPEAKER_02]: The people pray for yearly television shows.
07:18.869 --> 07:28.278
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there was, I can't, I wish I were to remember that study, but the people, yeah, even even the scientific studies are telling us people want their TV shows coming out every gosh, aren't you?
07:28.418 --> 07:29.219
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
07:29.359 --> 07:37.147
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you listen watching, if you haven't seen that, there is a study that came out this week that shows that viewership on platforms like Netflix.
07:37.787 --> 07:42.049
[SPEAKER_01]: actually drops when it's been like two years between seasons.
07:42.429 --> 07:43.610
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we have the data.
07:43.730 --> 07:47.592
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully these studios take the hint more like an idea of the seven kingdoms.
07:48.592 --> 07:50.013
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, a weekly release.
07:50.333 --> 07:55.355
[SPEAKER_02]: It's okay that everybody in the world that I'm watching your show, you just have to make a good show for your audience.
07:55.395 --> 07:56.055
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
07:56.336 --> 07:56.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
07:58.357 --> 08:03.059
[SPEAKER_01]: So the other thing was that boy said he was asked,
08:04.099 --> 08:17.464
[SPEAKER_01]: has there been any movement on any other Game of Thrones spin-offs and he kind of voiced us so much press that occasionally he kind of like gets snappy with the people interviewing him and it's almost kind of funny.
08:17.804 --> 08:26.888
[SPEAKER_01]: So his answer to this was like oh you mean aside from the Emmy wedding a night of the Seven Kingdoms and House of the Dragon which just released its third season aside from those?
08:27.348 --> 08:28.468
[SPEAKER_01]: No no movement.
08:28.648 --> 08:32.330
[SPEAKER_01]: So like Kudos to him for the joke but also
08:33.718 --> 08:37.239
[SPEAKER_01]: baby don't uh we're not going to be getting any other spinoffs anytime soon.
08:37.259 --> 08:38.939
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that's caused for alarm?
08:39.980 --> 08:47.422
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, yeah, no, not in the syndicados that said to come out in 2027, 2028, we got those guaranteed.
08:47.702 --> 08:50.283
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we have the final season of House of Dragon definitely coming out.
08:50.663 --> 08:51.683
[SPEAKER_02]: It's on time in 2028.
08:51.963 --> 08:55.424
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I know when, um, I'm just a boy that's not talking to me, at least not yet.
08:55.764 --> 08:57.445
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we're definitely getting this.
08:57.465 --> 08:58.505
[SPEAKER_02]: I get all of us.
08:59.345 --> 09:05.254
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're in, but we also know they're working on developing Agon's Conquest.
09:06.075 --> 09:08.939
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't see that coming out probably early.
09:08.959 --> 09:12.283
[SPEAKER_02]: It's 2029 and that's probably if everything goes perfectly.
09:13.887 --> 09:21.089
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to, we have to say that we have plenty of time for them to think of possibly another show.
09:21.109 --> 09:31.491
[SPEAKER_02]: We know they've been kicking around the can with the Coralist Valerion animated uh, voyages of the Seesnake show and that what was it, uh, princess my marius?
09:32.671 --> 09:32.911
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
09:32.931 --> 09:36.832
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 10,000 ships, 10,000 ships as a television show.
09:36.892 --> 09:39.533
[SPEAKER_02]: I want us to, they said that one possibly animated as well.
09:41.072 --> 09:49.240
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they've confirmed the anime, I think originally they said live action, but they've kind of kept mom about the NIME or 10,000 ships show.
09:49.561 --> 09:53.024
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just wrote about this literally yesterday in this morning.
09:53.085 --> 10:02.234
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're tuning into this podcast and you want to break down of all of the spin offs that we know are in development, there's one over at Winters coming right now.
10:03.576 --> 10:18.450
[SPEAKER_01]: 10,000 ships, it's been kind of like mom since 2024, which is when George R. Martin announced that Ebony Booth, who's a Pulitzer Pulitzer winning playwright, was doing a script for the Nymeria show.
10:18.850 --> 10:21.332
[SPEAKER_01]: But since then, it's like nobody said anything.
10:21.392 --> 10:27.939
[SPEAKER_01]: So honestly, I don't think this is bad because looking at the list of them, really drove home like,
10:28.499 --> 10:55.392
[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of need to revisit the well a little bit here because so the core list show is the one I want the most that's animated like I want the nine voyages they only talk about in the book George really only like discusses like I want to say like three or four of them if that like there's room to do some of them we know and some of them we know nothing about and just make some up because we know George are Martin kind of makes things up as he goes along so he probably hasn't even
10:56.072 --> 11:21.133
[SPEAKER_01]: really charted out with all nine of them are no yeah so yeah I mean they've got that they've got 10,000 ships then after that the only other really notable one is the golden empire which is the animated YT spin-off which again that's like all we've got for YT this is it it's four pages in the world of ice and fire that's it so they could do so much
11:22.415 --> 11:24.818
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you have to, you have to go right around the hill.
11:24.898 --> 11:26.380
[SPEAKER_02]: Good show runner.
11:26.440 --> 11:29.224
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do a lot with those ideas right now.
11:29.284 --> 11:36.033
[SPEAKER_02]: But like you said, just ideas and they still have to, you know, two great shows out right now.
11:36.133 --> 11:37.655
[SPEAKER_02]: It was well as a movie on the way.
11:37.715 --> 11:39.678
[SPEAKER_02]: So the, the well is looking pretty full.
11:40.018 --> 11:40.958
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
11:41.198 --> 11:42.319
[SPEAKER_01]: And Egon's conquest.
11:42.499 --> 11:47.561
[SPEAKER_01]: So with boys, he definitely, you know, he, he's not doing Egon's conquest.
11:47.641 --> 11:51.142
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Warner Bros. Like the movie arm of Warner Bros.
11:51.182 --> 11:51.602
[SPEAKER_01]: Discovery.
11:51.622 --> 11:55.404
[SPEAKER_01]: So HBO, I assume they'll consult, but like they're not.
11:55.744 --> 11:58.725
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so weird to think there's going to be like a Game of Thrones thing.
11:58.745 --> 12:01.946
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not HBO on screens.
12:02.466 --> 12:04.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you, how do you feel about that?
12:06.242 --> 12:27.272
[SPEAKER_02]: That does feel like you said, you know, they're going to consult, they got to figure out how they want the costume design and get to get the look of the dragons, like we got one of the dragons, who would be in that show in the big are so probably, we're going to slightly younger big are a hundred years in the past, they got a spring in our step.
12:27.292 --> 12:30.213
[SPEAKER_02]: Last spring, so what it's going to be.
12:31.838 --> 12:46.229
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess we'll see how they do like how it translates to a movie and how it's going to look with just a different cast of people kind of running the background like how's that going to affect the flow or the the look and feel of the of the film.
12:46.550 --> 12:46.830
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:47.150 --> 13:01.893
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like the Conquest is a pretty good choice for a movie because there's some events that are just like the sheer scale of them as a big part of what makes them cool and it would be hard to maybe do that on television the same way like the field of fire and stuff like that.
13:03.613 --> 13:07.594
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, I think you're on you hit the nail on the head with the dates.
13:08.234 --> 13:12.515
[SPEAKER_01]: We know for sure it's not coming before 2027 because that's been stated already.
13:13.705 --> 13:15.606
[SPEAKER_01]: probably after House of the Dragons done.
13:15.827 --> 13:18.148
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know why they would release it before that.
13:18.228 --> 13:21.190
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, 2029, Agon's Conquest.
13:22.731 --> 13:24.933
[SPEAKER_02]: Book it, book it, we're, we're declaring it now.
13:25.153 --> 13:26.654
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're tickets now.
13:28.255 --> 13:32.618
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so that's all that's new in Westeros.
13:32.939 --> 13:37.422
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one other thing, I do need a briefly plug here for the site for, for Westeros coming.
13:38.222 --> 13:39.904
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a texting,
13:40.604 --> 13:46.049
[SPEAKER_01]: feature that's going live soon where you can get updates from the team text that's directly to you.
13:46.710 --> 13:49.972
[SPEAKER_01]: We're rolling it out over the course of like the next like couple weeks.
13:50.733 --> 13:54.937
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to find out more about that, you can text winter to 929-207-5591.
13:59.601 --> 14:02.482
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so that's what's up in Westeros.
14:03.182 --> 14:11.745
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to move on to the heart of our show today, which is getting into the highs and lows of the Targaryen dynasty?
14:12.885 --> 14:20.868
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we have each decided who are the three best rulers of Westeros and the three worst rulers of Westeros?
14:20.908 --> 14:21.188
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
14:21.528 --> 14:22.668
[SPEAKER_02]: Are our lists correct?
14:22.848 --> 14:23.188
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
14:23.329 --> 14:24.929
[SPEAKER_02]: One of us is more correct than the other.
14:25.009 --> 14:25.409
[SPEAKER_02]: It's me.
14:30.685 --> 14:45.156
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I know we say it kind of decided what each go through one of our best ones and one of our worst ones and kind of alternate from there So hopefully you are a listen to us as we dive into so I guess starting off with one of the best rules of West Rose.
14:45.356 --> 14:46.357
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I guess who?
14:46.777 --> 14:47.838
[SPEAKER_02]: who wants to go first.
14:48.098 --> 14:50.761
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think so I just want to go on the record here.
14:50.961 --> 14:54.784
[SPEAKER_01]: So we did compare notes before this to make sure we are talking about six rulers.
14:54.804 --> 14:59.268
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't you know pick the same ones because there are some that are pretty clearly best.
14:59.708 --> 15:01.510
[SPEAKER_01]: Some that are pretty clearly the worst.
15:01.590 --> 15:03.772
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not too debatable with a few of them.
15:05.858 --> 15:13.245
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just want to go on the record and say you actually do have the the correct list for this mostly there's one in particular.
15:13.265 --> 15:19.210
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to talk about so why don't you start pick one of your best and then we'll get into it.
15:20.171 --> 15:20.491
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
15:20.511 --> 15:23.153
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is going to be in no particular order.
15:23.534 --> 15:30.600
[SPEAKER_02]: So what the first of my best is going to be bailer the first our Gary of his name and I just think he.
15:32.293 --> 15:47.320
[SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of people that, you know, though he may have been a little too religious, a little too zealotry of it all, but Baylor really went in there after his brother King Deiron had passed away, killed all the way down in Dorn and he ended that stupid war.
15:47.360 --> 15:48.280
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a silly war.
15:48.320 --> 15:48.961
[SPEAKER_02]: They were him.
15:49.641 --> 15:54.984
[SPEAKER_02]: It was no matter how anybody tries to hype it up, it was like, it was a dumbest thing ever.
15:55.284 --> 15:59.846
[SPEAKER_02]: Did Baylor kind of deal with silly, walk all the way to Dorn to free his uncle, the dragon night?
16:00.426 --> 16:01.687
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a little bit, maybe a little bit.
16:01.707 --> 16:03.548
[SPEAKER_02]: That's probably not the best plan, but he did it.
16:03.768 --> 16:15.673
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to make a p-still with the prince of Dorn, make a marriage pack, save the dragon knight, one of the most legendary figures in Westeros for all his chivalry.
16:16.214 --> 16:19.495
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and he helped unite the kingdom.
16:19.535 --> 16:25.158
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he planted the seeds for Dorn to enter into the fold of the seven kingdoms.
16:25.358 --> 16:26.579
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, and he,
16:27.179 --> 16:28.620
[SPEAKER_02]: a king of the people.
16:29.180 --> 16:30.360
[SPEAKER_02]: He gave the people bread.
16:30.380 --> 16:38.983
[SPEAKER_02]: He was willing to empty the coffers in King's land and to make sure every man and woman has some bread on their plate so they didn't star.
16:39.224 --> 16:41.905
[SPEAKER_02]: How can you deny that may or from the best Kings?
16:42.765 --> 16:43.285
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
16:43.425 --> 16:43.745
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fair.
16:43.825 --> 16:44.786
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you can.
16:44.966 --> 16:45.266
[SPEAKER_01]: I think
16:46.504 --> 16:48.106
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the fun thing with these.
16:48.626 --> 16:55.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Even the best ones, a lot of them have their shortcomings because George Omar and love some a real person who, you know, nobody's perfect.
16:56.192 --> 16:58.114
[SPEAKER_01]: None of these rulers certainly are.
16:59.275 --> 17:10.605
[SPEAKER_01]: But Baylor, you know, you're right, the penance he took to Dorne to make up for his brothers' war, which we're gonna talk about because I have, I have him on my list somewhere, Darren the first.
17:11.085 --> 17:12.026
[SPEAKER_01]: The young dragon.
17:13.687 --> 17:19.428
[SPEAKER_01]: But Baylor, you know, went and basically resolved this war with Dorn.
17:19.648 --> 17:24.729
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we are going to talk like spoilers from Fire and Blood here, obviously.
17:25.929 --> 17:30.870
[SPEAKER_01]: Baylor is the son of Agon III, who is Raniris son with Damon.
17:30.910 --> 17:33.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're like a couple generations out from House of the Dragon.
17:34.651 --> 17:37.951
[SPEAKER_01]: The realm was still kind of reeling this war with Dorn is going on.
17:38.491 --> 17:40.452
[SPEAKER_01]: And Baylor, like he just walked
17:42.492 --> 17:43.653
[SPEAKER_01]: all the way there and back.
17:45.315 --> 17:53.824
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the big kind of quandary with Baylor here that I wonder how you feel about is two things.
17:54.224 --> 17:56.346
[SPEAKER_01]: One is him burning all the books.
17:58.168 --> 18:04.675
[SPEAKER_01]: He did burn a bunch of books that's like it's like a sidebar in the world of ice and fire that's like he did unfortunately do this thing too.
18:05.974 --> 18:09.735
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes, and no, and it is he 100% perfect.
18:09.775 --> 18:13.556
[SPEAKER_02]: No, like you said, he burnt the books before his death.
18:13.756 --> 18:19.337
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to start a religious war against the North and the iron islands.
18:19.558 --> 18:20.178
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:20.478 --> 18:23.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to convert them to the birth of faith.
18:24.339 --> 18:24.899
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:25.439 --> 18:26.180
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all bad.
18:26.200 --> 18:29.222
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that religious deletry that goes too far.
18:29.302 --> 18:31.723
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, hey, I love the way you want to help the people.
18:31.763 --> 18:33.144
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way you want to support though.
18:33.464 --> 18:36.126
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you like what we're going to forcefully convert you.
18:36.166 --> 18:40.369
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, that's just going to that would start another silly war, but did he do it?
18:40.469 --> 18:43.851
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, he did pass away before that happened.
18:44.471 --> 18:45.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he did.
18:45.952 --> 18:47.352
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe from the help of family members.
18:47.412 --> 18:48.233
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know that.
18:48.533 --> 19:04.217
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, most of because he went on a long fast after discovering his wife slash sister that he set aside Diana that defined at age aisle, which was Damon Waters aka Damon Blackfire first of his name long may you ring.
19:04.237 --> 19:04.857
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
19:05.257 --> 19:07.398
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's all right.
19:09.795 --> 19:19.079
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of lost his mind because he didn't lock his sister the way because once he lusting the after his sister secretly, yes, but he wanted to keep his body pure by lock him in the way.
19:19.099 --> 19:24.361
[SPEAKER_02]: So he wasn't tempted by the the Targaryen and this of his little sisters.
19:24.581 --> 19:25.482
[SPEAKER_02]: That didn't sound right.
19:25.542 --> 19:25.982
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
19:27.304 --> 19:43.034
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well that's the other that's the other thing staying on Baylor's rule I was going to mention is so this thing called the maiden vault he locked his three sisters away so that they wouldn't tempt him they wouldn't tempt anyone else and they could remain virtuous and you know
19:43.975 --> 19:54.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Aside from the fact that that's a pretty intense thing to do to your sisters, you know, most of, I think it's two of them who really chaved at it, and one was a little more religious if I remember right.
19:55.361 --> 19:59.063
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and, and mine did it, maybe a little less.
19:59.764 --> 20:01.545
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say, didn't mind it at all.
20:02.865 --> 20:08.949
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, you've King, you know, marrying your siblings, your relatives,
20:13.051 --> 20:15.812
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and Baylor didn't, he didn't leave any airs.
20:16.353 --> 20:24.117
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, and he was, you know, he, he was a great ruler.
20:24.157 --> 20:25.497
[SPEAKER_01]: He did a lot of really good things.
20:26.058 --> 20:34.502
[SPEAKER_01]: The, started, the speculation is he started a little bit crazy toward the ends from the fasting from his long walk to Dorne, which is definitely like,
20:35.282 --> 20:40.285
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing of his reign, you know, he commissioned the building of the Great Sceptre Baylor, too.
20:40.625 --> 20:46.309
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the walk to Dorne, like there wouldn't be peace with Dorne, without Baylor the blessings.
20:46.369 --> 20:48.450
[SPEAKER_01]: So you got to respect it.
20:48.931 --> 20:50.212
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a good choice.
20:51.280 --> 20:52.741
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, we're looking at the best king.
20:52.761 --> 20:58.586
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to look at the realm, the political theater that they inherited.
20:58.666 --> 21:00.927
[SPEAKER_02]: He inherited one that was chaos.
21:01.228 --> 21:06.832
[SPEAKER_02]: There was an unnecessary war, and he had to be the one to kind of set it right in his own way.
21:07.452 --> 21:10.875
[SPEAKER_02]: Would that be the way I probably would have chosen on a crazy day?
21:11.135 --> 21:12.096
[SPEAKER_02]: walk down there?
21:12.256 --> 21:12.597
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
21:12.797 --> 21:13.177
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:13.197 --> 21:21.286
[SPEAKER_02]: He also, like the history was always say that he walked down there and he was going, you know, on this miracle, he made it down there.
21:21.627 --> 21:25.891
[SPEAKER_02]: There are probably guards all around up making sure the path was, the path way was clear.
21:25.932 --> 21:27.794
[SPEAKER_02]: There nobody was going to let the king walk by himself.
21:28.094 --> 21:28.314
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:28.334 --> 21:28.795
[SPEAKER_02]: Completely.
21:29.235 --> 21:42.480
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, we know from World of Ice and Fire, his trip back, that was the case, because the prince of Doran wanted offered a bishop, said, I'll sail you back to King's Landing, so that the agreement would be just made is secure.
21:42.820 --> 21:49.102
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, no, I need to walk it, partially because we wanted to spring his cousin, amen.
21:49.142 --> 21:49.242
[SPEAKER_01]: And
21:52.323 --> 22:03.207
[SPEAKER_01]: the prince sent where to head to all of the castles to be hospitable to Baylor on his way back to the seven king or to the north, north of Dorn, whatever.
22:03.227 --> 22:04.948
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all north from Dorn.
22:06.288 --> 22:14.531
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so so Baylor at the blessed definitely up there definitely a king worthy of remembrance in the animals of the seven kingdoms.
22:14.911 --> 22:18.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think part of it too is he died before he could become a bad king.
22:18.572 --> 22:18.972
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is
22:20.613 --> 22:28.198
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because like you said, he was kind of on the cusp of maybe going to war with the north and the iron islands, but he didn't live that long.
22:28.218 --> 22:32.560
[SPEAKER_01]: So we just get to remember him as a very pious king who did a lot of it.
22:32.600 --> 22:35.742
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to back up just a little bit just a little bit.
22:35.762 --> 22:39.705
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm going to drop one of my best.
22:40.607 --> 22:53.278
[SPEAKER_01]: which is Jaeheris, the first Jaeheris, the conciliator, ruled the longest of any king in the history of West rose out of all 17 Targaryen kings, ruled for 55 years and
22:56.681 --> 23:04.588
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that is cool about Jaeheris is, so Egon conquered the seven kingdoms, then Egon's sons kind of messed it all up.
23:05.389 --> 23:10.694
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two sons, both of their reigns made left a lot of problems, and then Jaeheris took over.
23:11.195 --> 23:12.316
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kind of...
23:13.843 --> 23:35.672
[SPEAKER_01]: was the Targaryen king who took like the dream of agon of like a united seven kingdoms six not counting to earn and like made a reality like he built roads he changed the laws he ruled very wisely in concert with his wife Queen Allison who held like women's courts around the seven kingdoms they outlawed
23:36.952 --> 23:48.435
[SPEAKER_01]: the tradition of first night where lords could go around and sleep with women on their wedding nights, which was like being abused in the in the awful ways in certain parts of the seven kingdoms.
23:48.835 --> 24:00.118
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all this good stuff that you're Harrison Allison did and because he reigns so long, it just brought like a, I don't think there is a period of prosperity and like,
24:00.958 --> 24:05.821
[SPEAKER_01]: Consistency for the seven kingdoms that's greater than what we got with Jeheris, the conciliator.
24:07.022 --> 24:12.226
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, he definitely, I think is one of the best.
24:12.246 --> 24:16.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Like reading fire and blood, he's kind of like the middle of the book, is his reign.
24:16.509 --> 24:20.392
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, he just, you know, he did a good job of
24:22.658 --> 24:38.895
[SPEAKER_01]: putting down potential rebellions, squashing discontent without actually doing wars too, like really great negotiator who's called the conciliator because he built a lot of bridges between all these different aspects of the kingdoms.
24:39.475 --> 24:42.979
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he's up there at the top of my list, I think.
24:44.269 --> 24:51.055
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you're really in fire and blood, you really feel like that George Armard and like that was Jay Harris's book.
24:51.075 --> 24:54.578
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he got to fill out so much of the world.
24:54.598 --> 25:00.242
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to see a truly see a king rule from the beginning of their life all the way to the end.
25:00.302 --> 25:03.665
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like when you get to the end, you're like, wow, we're still in this one king.
25:03.685 --> 25:04.906
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna read in that book for first time.
25:04.946 --> 25:08.209
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, wow, a lot has happened in his life.
25:08.480 --> 25:08.740
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:09.240 --> 25:09.961
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
25:10.061 --> 25:13.342
[SPEAKER_01]: It really does sink in when you're reading the book like cover to cover.
25:13.362 --> 25:20.744
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, he almost feels like the main character a little bit because like his rule is so long.
25:20.885 --> 25:33.169
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you get this kind of a long calm down from his rule where you're introduced to all his sons and his grandchildren and stuff like Reynice Targaryen and Viserys, who we know so
25:36.170 --> 25:40.873
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I mean, Deheris just, he just did the job well.
25:40.973 --> 25:53.340
[SPEAKER_01]: He saw all of the mayhem that came before him with his father Anis and then his uncle, Megor, the cruel, and he just kind of came to the job.
25:53.400 --> 25:56.962
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a Regency for Deheris, so he didn't step right into the iron throne.
25:57.442 --> 26:00.784
[SPEAKER_01]: He had, you know, people ruling for him before he was of age.
26:01.504 --> 26:04.786
[SPEAKER_01]: But then they included him in their councils and stuff.
26:04.806 --> 26:10.029
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was a very different than some of the other regencies we see, where it really feels like he was groomed to be a good leader.
26:10.650 --> 26:11.830
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just kind of was.
26:12.511 --> 26:18.795
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, and not even going to all of his small council, but I will give him back.
26:19.055 --> 26:26.480
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to assemble a small council that probably would let it be a small cup of scepton, was it scepton barf?
26:26.520 --> 26:27.200
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I saying the same thing?
26:27.360 --> 26:53.308
[SPEAKER_01]: except in bar if yes, except in bar if we brought in he wanted to make except in bar of hand of the cake in a couple of times that he kept getting shot down and then later it is really like look Barth is my guy like he's my hand and except in barth so it's funny because we're just talking about Baylor the blessed burning books, except in Barth's book is like the main one that the book's highlight as like it's too bad that he burned except in Barth's
26:57.129 --> 27:00.492
[SPEAKER_01]: We know about dragons and old veliria and stuff like that.
27:00.632 --> 27:07.157
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of it came from Captain Barth, who Jeheris kind of handpicked to be his guy.
27:07.738 --> 27:15.684
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was great not just at ruling himself, but also choosing the right people for the right jobs to make the seven kingdoms just work.
27:17.213 --> 27:31.598
[SPEAKER_02]: Even like you said, well, like he mentioned, including his wife and having her go with him and speak to the, you know, to the other woman of the realm and she was involved in a lot of the decision making in this small council, like he would seek her council and she or she wasn't afraid to give her opinion.
27:33.158 --> 27:41.287
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally, but you know, but you know what as a good role that you have to be willing to listen and be willing to, you know, take, take their advice and implement those things.
27:41.327 --> 27:49.095
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jay, here's the good job in that problem at the best job in raising all of his kids outside of his two elders.
27:49.135 --> 27:53.699
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of a lot of, I'm not going to say outright neglect, but he just
27:54.844 --> 28:14.150
[SPEAKER_02]: didn't really care like hey I got I got my two oldest sons they're who I'm focused at all right now they're going to continue to legacy everyone else and it really kind of bit him in the rear when both his eldest sons would pass before he would so he's like uh who's going to roll the realm what's going to happen next and he really kind of
28:14.965 --> 28:21.953
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the history books say he left it up to the lords to decide and vote in the great council of 101 on the next rule there.
28:22.013 --> 28:30.784
[SPEAKER_02]: But I, we really say he really left it out to to them or did he have his influence on who was going to succeed him at that point?
28:31.098 --> 28:33.679
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's definitely a pretty fair question.
28:34.559 --> 28:37.259
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, I'd always kind of felt like he kind of washed his hands.
28:37.279 --> 28:38.799
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I'm old.
28:39.020 --> 28:40.980
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to have to deal with this stuff that much longer.
28:41.280 --> 28:48.001
[SPEAKER_01]: He was at the stage of his life where he was mixing people up and like squinting to make sure he recognized people right and forgetting names and stuff.
28:48.461 --> 28:51.062
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the show has him at the great council.
28:51.302 --> 28:52.442
[SPEAKER_01]: And the book he didn't even go.
28:52.462 --> 28:54.903
[SPEAKER_01]: He just said, you guys go figure it out.
28:55.383 --> 28:56.863
[SPEAKER_01]: And then let me know who you chose.
28:57.623 --> 29:05.288
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so Jaeheris really good at not just ruling well, but also like letting the seven kingdoms rule themselves when it makes sense too.
29:06.049 --> 29:15.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but yeah, you're right, obviously he did not always his fatal flaw was bad parenting essentially, which is kind of a theme for a lot of like the good kings.
29:15.815 --> 29:21.519
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were good at being a king, they didn't do the best job of making sure their children would succeed them well though.
29:21.699 --> 29:26.162
[SPEAKER_01]: So most of the good good kings of Westeros are followed by terrible ones.
29:27.742 --> 29:32.324
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the case for Jaharis, which we will talk about.
29:32.905 --> 29:36.406
[SPEAKER_01]: So who's one of your worst here?
29:36.426 --> 29:37.907
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we want to bounce back?
29:39.316 --> 29:41.478
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, we'll go to one of our worst games.
29:41.518 --> 29:48.045
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the worst games I pick, and I think it's one of the easiest ones because it's the one we're introduced to in the game of thrones.
29:48.085 --> 29:48.966
[SPEAKER_02]: We're first watching the show.
29:48.986 --> 29:50.167
[SPEAKER_02]: We hear all about this character.
29:50.387 --> 29:54.511
[SPEAKER_02]: And then his every second of his name, aka the Mad King.
29:54.872 --> 29:55.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:55.412 --> 29:58.595
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of an easy, and they already called him the Mad King.
29:58.956 --> 30:02.079
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not an affectionate subricat.
30:03.072 --> 30:16.816
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, it's like so a few of the things he did alienate his best friend in Tywin Lannister, the man that helped him, you know, kind of really submit his role and get the make sure to Seventeen and stay under their grasp.
30:17.036 --> 30:20.056
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you don't make fun of that guy, you don't undercut his authority.
30:20.277 --> 30:22.057
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's really what the Mad King was doing.
30:22.577 --> 30:23.277
[SPEAKER_02]: And then even
30:30.887 --> 30:31.647
[SPEAKER_02]: What's my name?
30:31.667 --> 30:33.529
[SPEAKER_02]: Brandon Stark in all his men.
30:33.589 --> 30:37.451
[SPEAKER_02]: And he demanded the great lords from the northern house is to come down.
30:37.471 --> 30:42.554
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, let's treat Rob, I mean, Brandon Stark was out of line.
30:42.594 --> 30:44.215
[SPEAKER_02]: He came to your calling for the Princess Ed.
30:44.495 --> 30:45.416
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't do that.
30:45.636 --> 30:49.898
[SPEAKER_02]: But then he disrespected every rule of guess right imaginable.
30:50.118 --> 30:52.260
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, what are you doing?
30:52.300 --> 30:54.641
[SPEAKER_02]: You killed all the great lords.
30:54.681 --> 30:56.862
[SPEAKER_02]: You called for the heads of, of,
30:57.923 --> 31:00.465
[SPEAKER_02]: of Robert Barraffian and Ned Stark.
31:00.705 --> 31:06.810
[SPEAKER_02]: And everyone's just looking at you, not understanding, looking confused or just say, I guess we'll do it because you're king.
31:06.830 --> 31:09.112
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make your major making good decisions?
31:09.412 --> 31:22.663
[SPEAKER_02]: No, as we see, he could team me bad at such, even putting his grandchildren live at state when it was time for the, when time will then his army was at the gate, when it was even before the battle at the,
31:24.036 --> 31:34.111
[SPEAKER_02]: At the Trident, he could have let Ilia Martille and his grandchildren leave to safety, so they weren't stuck in King's land for whatever way the war was going to go.
31:34.131 --> 31:37.856
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's like, no, he kept in there as a hostage and ended up costing in their lives.
31:38.137 --> 31:38.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:39.178 --> 31:44.803
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty hard to debate that Ares deserves to be anywhere other than on the list of the worst things of the West.
31:45.324 --> 31:49.147
[SPEAKER_01]: The Targaryen dynasty crumbled and it is his fault.
31:50.008 --> 31:54.051
[SPEAKER_01]: You know that it happened on his watch because of how badly
31:55.200 --> 32:13.531
[SPEAKER_01]: He ruled and how horrifically he alienated the lords of the of the seven kingdoms with these really crazy decisions like the the guest right violating that killing you know Brandon Stark and and his father like in horrific fashion.
32:15.753 --> 32:38.797
[SPEAKER_01]: these things had consequences for Eris, and it's interesting because there is a play that just wrapped up its first run that is moving to London next year, which is Game of Thrones the Mad King, which apparently humanizes Eris a little bit more, talks about like how he got to be the way he was, but even if there are real good justifications for why Eris Targaryen became the
32:45.659 --> 32:48.183
[SPEAKER_01]: ruined this 300 year dynasty.
32:48.924 --> 32:52.589
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, I, I mean, what can you say?
32:52.930 --> 32:55.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, say here, Mark, like, yeah, that's a good choice.
32:56.395 --> 33:01.002
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only one other king who turned people against him, like Eris, I think.
33:02.264 --> 33:19.355
[SPEAKER_02]: And even when people talk about the Mad King like no even people on their side if I'm in the war, no one ever says like, oh, yeah, eras was the best king ever, eras I still would have chosen to fight for him if it wasn't for a oh, we did like, no everybody's like, no, I'm pretty crazy.
33:19.416 --> 33:20.256
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm here for the others.
33:20.316 --> 33:22.858
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're because we've been to need that's the only reason I'm fighting for.
33:23.376 --> 33:26.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there really isn't across any of the books.
33:27.017 --> 33:41.642
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really recall anyone, like reminiscing fondly about Eris, which is really different than like the Black Fire Rebellion, for example, like the Black Fire's cause a bunch of problems, but like there are still people who would like wish the Black Fire's one, like you said.
33:41.722 --> 33:44.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Like nobody is like, I've only Eris was still king.
33:46.583 --> 33:58.433
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of like, if only Ragar would have won and took the throne from here, it was like, oh, we all realized that here is probably the time for him to step aside to go to the wall.
33:58.634 --> 34:00.455
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but he didn't.
34:00.695 --> 34:03.638
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, we have no more Targaryen kings.
34:04.278 --> 34:10.043
[SPEAKER_01]: So he is the 17th, the last and definitely one of the worst.
34:12.601 --> 34:15.984
[SPEAKER_02]: at least until Daenerys Targaryen comes back.
34:16.825 --> 34:17.646
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's a winner.
34:17.666 --> 34:18.467
[SPEAKER_02]: He's talking now.
34:18.787 --> 34:19.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I can.
34:20.048 --> 34:21.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:21.129 --> 34:22.831
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she be one of the best for the worst.
34:22.851 --> 34:32.760
[SPEAKER_01]: She, I mean, I think no matter how bad Danny is in the book, because I do think she'll have it like a dark arc, regardless of whether it's exactly like the show.
34:32.780 --> 34:37.244
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she'll have the time to be as bad as Eris, because Eris ruled for
34:38.527 --> 34:51.276
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, 21 years and not all of that time he he was terrible, but like enough of it that you know, Danny's not going to rule for 20 years, even if she gets the iron throne, she just isn't.
34:52.177 --> 34:58.502
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, eras the eras the second definitely up there, one of the worst, no question.
34:59.618 --> 35:05.666
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, but who do you have for even maybe a worse or king that ruled?
35:06.247 --> 35:08.409
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think there's a theme to some of these worsts.
35:09.571 --> 35:16.640
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna go with Viserys the first, played by Patty Constantine in House of the Dragon.
35:18.422 --> 35:26.590
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Viserius, you know, he's not the worst in the same way that Eris is where Eris committed monstrosities.
35:26.990 --> 35:28.211
[SPEAKER_01]: He turned people against him.
35:28.251 --> 35:29.412
[SPEAKER_01]: He did all this awful stuff.
35:29.873 --> 35:36.198
[SPEAKER_01]: But they have one thing in common, which is the Targaryen dynasty, almost crumbled on their watch.
35:36.439 --> 35:36.919
[SPEAKER_01]: Eris did.
35:37.960 --> 35:44.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Viserius came like the closest it ever had in history by a lot.
35:45.082 --> 36:03.087
[SPEAKER_01]: So Viserius's big problem is that he, you know, we mentioned that flaw-wise, a lot of the good kings were in great parents, things like that, a lot of awful kings, I don't want to say we're good parents, but like, you know, had children who succeeded them well, we can say,
36:05.648 --> 36:07.750
[SPEAKER_01]: Viserius is neither.
36:08.211 --> 36:11.554
[SPEAKER_01]: He was kind of a king who really just didn't want to deal with anything.
36:11.674 --> 36:15.597
[SPEAKER_01]: So like things, you know, there weren't too many wars on his watch.
36:16.258 --> 36:23.084
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like there was tons of unrest on his watch, but he just kind of let things stagnate in a really dangerous way.
36:23.324 --> 36:25.306
[SPEAKER_01]: And he did that for the
36:30.931 --> 36:46.518
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the show is made such a thing of like Reneera being like this very worthy air who she chose who could succeed him who like he trained in some ways to succeed him and entrusted with this secret to to take over after him.
36:47.478 --> 36:51.000
[SPEAKER_01]: Reneera is not painted that kindly in the book.
36:51.460 --> 37:00.064
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very much more of a situation of Vesera's named in air because nobody wanted Damon to be the air, and then he just didn't want to deal with it again.
37:00.084 --> 37:13.590
[SPEAKER_01]: The great council is this precedent that the Crown has to go to a male claimant before a female, and not only that it can't pass through a female claimant to
37:14.530 --> 37:16.011
[SPEAKER_01]: her son or grandson.
37:16.431 --> 37:27.877
[SPEAKER_01]: And for better or worse, the whole point of that being established at the Great Council was to set it as almost like a law or precedent that the lords of the seven kingdoms would adhere to.
37:28.677 --> 37:37.441
[SPEAKER_01]: So whether Reneira, you know, if she was really exceptionally well suited, like Reneis, who actually could have probably been a really good queen.
37:39.442 --> 37:59.753
[SPEAKER_01]: then that's a different story, but the way it's painted in the book is just like he names his daughter the heir, upending the, you know, he didn't have a son at that time, but then when he once he had a son and could do the the great council thing, which would have appeased probably every Lord in Westeros, he just didn't want to be bothered and that's the thing.
37:59.853 --> 38:04.356
[SPEAKER_01]: The Sarah's didn't want to be bothered with ruling and because of that we got the dance of the
38:08.298 --> 38:10.420
[SPEAKER_01]: all the Targaryens died almost.
38:11.041 --> 38:21.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's, you know, we get a few generations of like mild turmoil before things really settle again, kind of during the reign of Baylor the Blessed.
38:22.853 --> 38:25.095
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but Sarah's is up there.
38:25.616 --> 38:26.737
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he did a good job.
38:28.169 --> 38:29.130
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they did a good job either.
38:29.150 --> 38:32.514
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you said, it was just, uh, I already did something.
38:32.574 --> 38:36.819
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we really have to go back to this again and go back to this issue?
38:36.899 --> 38:37.760
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't even an issue?
38:38.180 --> 38:39.362
[SPEAKER_02]: I name my daughter, air.
38:39.762 --> 38:41.925
[SPEAKER_02]: I love actually didn't love my first wife.
38:41.945 --> 38:43.446
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm just going to keep it at that.
38:43.867 --> 38:45.428
[SPEAKER_02]: It's he, it's like he didn't want to.
38:45.989 --> 38:48.670
[SPEAKER_02]: think about the repercussions of that.
38:48.750 --> 38:50.711
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, it is what it is.
38:50.771 --> 38:53.272
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's not that, like, we have to.
38:53.692 --> 39:06.537
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess you can also say what's he getting the correct intel from maybe some people on his small council to how some of the other lords and ladies were feeling about this decision could have been like, okay, yeah, enough people said they were good with it.
39:06.817 --> 39:09.458
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kingsward is law and just leave it at that.
39:09.838 --> 39:13.240
[SPEAKER_02]: But we just can't, we can't leave it at, hey, Kingsward is law, we have to actually,
39:13.940 --> 39:22.330
[SPEAKER_02]: do something that to make sure it's it is set in it is preceded and so everyone will follow it in he's just going to do it.
39:22.350 --> 39:24.533
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's on his own fame build the legals in a TV show.
39:24.893 --> 39:29.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah totally and the TV show makes him just so much more sympathetic.
39:29.839 --> 39:32.322
[SPEAKER_01]: So like we're talking about the fire and blood version of
39:33.003 --> 39:33.403
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:33.784 --> 39:36.347
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we haven't seen adaptations for the rest of the king.
39:36.387 --> 39:39.770
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of apples and oranges to talk about the way the show portrayed him.
39:40.271 --> 39:44.295
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Viserys, you know, he definitely just did what he wanted.
39:44.455 --> 39:53.144
[SPEAKER_01]: He inherited, you know, the the seven kingdoms essentially at their apex from Jae Harris, the conciliator and he just kind of coasted.
39:53.805 --> 40:02.011
[SPEAKER_01]: didn't didn't do anything else monumental just didn't want to be bothered and as a result like tens of thousands of people died.
40:02.091 --> 40:09.237
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he didn't live to see the fact that he was one of the worse, but he definitely was, I think.
40:10.477 --> 40:12.159
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's another one of your best?
40:13.783 --> 40:14.723
[SPEAKER_02]: best.
40:14.764 --> 40:16.985
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is going to be the true best.
40:17.285 --> 40:18.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Magor.
40:18.866 --> 40:21.887
[SPEAKER_02]: Magor first of the innocence.
40:23.148 --> 40:37.255
[SPEAKER_02]: History remember him as Magor the cruel, but I I would like to say I don't agree if we look at kind of how I wanted to think about it is what he inherited or what he should have inherited.
40:37.275 --> 40:42.678
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, because if we look at it,
40:44.674 --> 40:47.096
[SPEAKER_02]: everyone said he had an older brother named Amy's.
40:47.296 --> 40:57.465
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's was technically the eldest son to egg on the conqueror, but when we look at the line of succession, uh, technically egg on and sister wife, but senior was older than him.
40:57.485 --> 41:02.109
[SPEAKER_02]: So when she had her child, which was a meagor of the cruel, you could almost say,
41:02.649 --> 41:05.432
[SPEAKER_02]: He should come in front of Amy's in the line of succession.
41:05.632 --> 41:06.713
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not what they believe.
41:07.213 --> 41:10.216
[SPEAKER_02]: Eggon loved his other sister wife a little bit more.
41:10.496 --> 41:12.058
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Amy's was the heir.
41:12.078 --> 41:13.239
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's became king.
41:13.439 --> 41:14.740
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's was a weak ruler.
41:14.901 --> 41:18.864
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's couldn't hold the kings together after Eggon the conqueror.
41:19.185 --> 41:22.868
[SPEAKER_02]: So, when Amy's finally died because he was a weak feeble man.
41:23.228 --> 41:24.269
[SPEAKER_02]: Eggon's looked around.
41:25.230 --> 41:27.711
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, hmm, he was at this point.
41:27.752 --> 41:29.372
[SPEAKER_02]: He's already been banished to S.O.S.
41:29.412 --> 41:30.873
[SPEAKER_02]: because he might have taken a second wife.
41:30.893 --> 41:32.254
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be with our guardians.
41:32.294 --> 41:32.954
[SPEAKER_02]: They're okay.
41:32.994 --> 41:33.615
[SPEAKER_02]: He's looking around.
41:43.240 --> 41:46.881
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, my, my little nephew, uh, egg on the uncranked.
41:46.901 --> 41:49.601
[SPEAKER_02]: He would be called the uncrowned because the one my man made or it's gonna do.
41:49.881 --> 41:52.102
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, he can't hold a king of came together.
41:52.222 --> 41:53.862
[SPEAKER_02]: At that time, he didn't even have a dragon.
41:54.102 --> 41:57.663
[SPEAKER_02]: And his sister wife, Reina, her dragon was on the way of Kingslandy.
41:57.843 --> 42:01.784
[SPEAKER_02]: They were in the Western lands of being but siege because people didn't like the Targaryens.
42:01.964 --> 42:03.464
[SPEAKER_02]: People didn't want the Targaryens.
42:03.764 --> 42:09.365
[SPEAKER_02]: So what, what can make our do except come there and make sure to make the kingdom right again?
42:09.865 --> 42:10.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
42:10.245 --> 42:18.469
[SPEAKER_02]: They had these warriors of the faith, the warrior's sons were doing everything they could to undermine House Targaryen.
42:19.429 --> 42:28.213
[SPEAKER_02]: He had to be the one there and do a trial by seven that hadn't been seen in all the years, a bunch of years, and we saw one in the night of the seven kingdoms.
42:28.493 --> 42:29.434
[SPEAKER_02]: This is in the book.
42:29.974 --> 42:37.082
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we got to see the first one got the read it and see that this man fought a trial by seven and one defeating all seven of the competitors.
42:37.262 --> 42:45.070
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, six to who they all died, but the other seven died the only one that lived was megalore and he went and he made the kingdom right again.
42:45.631 --> 42:46.551
[SPEAKER_02]: He went to Old Town.
42:46.591 --> 42:48.672
[SPEAKER_02]: He was unnoticed by the high septid.
42:48.812 --> 42:51.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Did the other one die the mysterious away that didn't like how talking around?
42:52.054 --> 42:52.394
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
42:52.474 --> 42:52.814
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:52.894 --> 43:02.238
[SPEAKER_02]: For the new, the new high septid came in, anointed him, and all the people that had all this grief and strife about House Targaryen.
43:02.698 --> 43:05.380
[SPEAKER_02]: For the most part, they were like, okay, cool, cool.
43:05.861 --> 43:16.069
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think we're gonna be on your side right now, uh, uh, and whether a lot of fighting, yes, whether a lot of contention going on, yes, they take on even more sister-wise.
43:16.129 --> 43:17.029
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's sister-wise.
43:17.250 --> 43:18.250
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like, at least wife.
43:19.131 --> 43:20.092
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, about six wives.
43:20.332 --> 43:21.233
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, six wives.
43:21.473 --> 43:22.274
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, six wives.
43:22.294 --> 43:22.954
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, six wives.
43:23.154 --> 43:24.696
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes, and wives.
43:24.736 --> 43:26.637
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was because he couldn't have children.
43:27.097 --> 43:29.699
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a chance he was maybe in front of them that really messed with his head?
43:30.560 --> 43:31.520
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit a little bit.
43:31.540 --> 43:34.261
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but he just wanted to make sure was right for the kingdom.
43:34.421 --> 43:37.762
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can't forget he did have a female heir.
43:38.522 --> 43:39.723
[SPEAKER_02]: He was making the cool for anybody.
43:39.743 --> 43:49.065
[SPEAKER_01]: He made his niece, uh, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, my, reign of child.
43:49.125 --> 43:49.425
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:49.825 --> 43:50.125
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:50.505 --> 43:54.467
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, he was willing to have a, have a, a little girl be his
43:56.958 --> 43:57.298
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so.
43:57.318 --> 43:57.819
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
43:57.879 --> 44:00.380
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, progressive, progressive.
44:02.542 --> 44:02.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:04.563 --> 44:14.289
[SPEAKER_02]: If not for him, the line of House Targaryen wouldn't have been established because Amy's before him, he was the one that had to tell everybody like, hey, we had dragons.
44:14.489 --> 44:18.572
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I might have forgotten that with my brother on the iron for all, but the dragons remember.
44:19.324 --> 44:20.004
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
44:20.024 --> 44:21.045
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that you have this year.
44:21.065 --> 44:22.586
[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously, make or the cruel is a shoe in for on the worst.
44:22.606 --> 44:24.227
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, right, like if you ask most people, he's he's got a bad rap.
44:24.247 --> 44:34.952
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a, you know, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, his, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but
44:35.152 --> 44:52.802
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right that he did inherit a situation that basically like the Targaryen dynasty would have collapsed without Magor and I think so I just re-read fire and blood for the first time in years the first time you read it's kind of like man Magor does all this horrific stuff you know he he marries a bunch of widows
44:53.482 --> 44:55.283
[SPEAKER_01]: who's husband, he had all killed.
44:55.663 --> 44:59.925
[SPEAKER_01]: He basically slaughtered anyone who violently disagrees with him.
45:00.345 --> 45:07.929
[SPEAKER_01]: He had Megor's holdfast that castle within a castle built with all of the secret tunnels we see in Game of Thrones.
45:08.009 --> 45:11.611
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he had all the builders killed, so they couldn't tell anyone about them.
45:12.651 --> 45:15.213
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all sorts of stuff that Megor did that is
45:16.013 --> 45:28.020
[SPEAKER_01]: obviously bad, obviously terrible, but it is also totally true the Targaryen dynasty would have collapsed without him because Anis was a bad ruler.
45:28.040 --> 45:41.388
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're going to talk about Anis and then agon the unground, like you said, like he was besieged, he and Reina went on a procession to announce their marriage, which had been announced without really thinking about the fact that the
45:46.235 --> 45:47.502
[SPEAKER_01]: And they got like
45:48.731 --> 45:53.912
[SPEAKER_01]: held up by a mob and held up in this castle for like pretty sure it was like months and then Megor came back.
45:54.972 --> 45:56.552
[SPEAKER_01]: People say he used to hurt the crown.
45:56.952 --> 45:59.833
[SPEAKER_01]: There was nobody holding the crown when Megor came back.
46:00.253 --> 46:00.833
[SPEAKER_01]: He came back.
46:00.873 --> 46:02.233
[SPEAKER_01]: He won that trial by seven.
46:02.873 --> 46:08.194
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, he knipped the kingdoms back together with fire and blood.
46:08.834 --> 46:17.456
[SPEAKER_01]: And also he turned so many people against him that by the time his rule was done, Megor is the way Megor's rule ended is really interesting because
46:18.748 --> 46:41.890
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you would think like he died in in battle or something and like there was a rebellion, whatever, basically there was a rebellion and it's just he just kind of united everyone against him because he was so bad and he realized that at the end and it's not clear whether he was murdered, whether he committed suicide, he died on the iron throne, I think he might be the only Targaryen ruler to die on the iron throne.
46:42.890 --> 46:52.253
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, with his wrist slit open, laying across the iron throne and that's how I went with one of his brides, one of his wives found them.
46:52.413 --> 46:52.593
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:52.613 --> 46:53.513
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, no.
46:53.993 --> 47:00.815
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember because the two advisors, the only two that were still with them, didn't one of them come into a side.
47:01.381 --> 47:02.522
[SPEAKER_01]: It's speculative.
47:02.802 --> 47:05.943
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing with so much of this in Fire and Blood.
47:06.403 --> 47:12.226
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does leave Megor's death a little ambiguous, whether he committed suicide, whether someone killed him.
47:13.667 --> 47:15.588
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it does say, though.
47:15.928 --> 47:23.091
[SPEAKER_01]: So you think he's infertile for a lot of his rule, one of his wives who was from, I think, lease from one of the free cities.
47:23.452 --> 47:24.332
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a sorceress.
47:24.552 --> 47:27.013
[SPEAKER_01]: She was poisoning the other wives so he couldn't have kids.
47:27.594 --> 47:30.075
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's made for the victim here.
47:31.727 --> 47:33.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, maybe, I don't know.
47:33.869 --> 47:46.036
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit, uh, yeah, maybe it's such a hot take to say, maybe where the crew is one of the best, but it also is just totally true that we would not have a Targaryen dynasty without him.
47:46.096 --> 47:50.199
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was the King Westeros needed at that point.
47:51.136 --> 47:53.839
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because if you think about like this, he was able to set it up.
47:53.919 --> 48:03.852
[SPEAKER_02]: So when Jeheris preceded him, he was able to say, the warrior sons, maybe the faith shouldn't have a militia arm to their organization.
48:04.753 --> 48:06.195
[SPEAKER_02]: I see what you did to my uncle.
48:06.475 --> 48:07.576
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's abolish that.
48:07.817 --> 48:10.500
[SPEAKER_02]: The crown will be the ones to protect the faith now.
48:10.660 --> 48:22.011
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was a smart smart move that you wouldn't have seen unless you went to war with them, shout out the Magor for making it so the next target in King can see that see that vision for us.
48:22.251 --> 48:23.052
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
48:23.372 --> 48:27.797
[SPEAKER_01]: When Magor took the crown, the faith militant controlled King's landing.
48:28.497 --> 48:43.607
[SPEAKER_01]: They controlled the gates, they controlled the city, so like it, it definitely, they were roving the countryside like they were kind of a menace when Megor took over, so if we didn't want the seven kingdoms to fall to total religious zealotry.
48:44.728 --> 48:48.472
[SPEAKER_01]: you needed that make or the cruel to set things to rights and he did.
48:49.252 --> 48:50.954
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's a fun.
48:51.114 --> 48:53.416
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my favorite choice out of all of these.
48:53.516 --> 48:56.719
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we are going to go outside the box.
48:56.819 --> 49:02.425
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we'll see what are next choice because who do you have for another best escape?
49:03.025 --> 49:08.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I have Darren the second who was the king.
49:08.886 --> 49:11.207
[SPEAKER_01]: He's good king Darren.
49:11.227 --> 49:14.448
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the king during a night of the seven kingdom season one.
49:14.468 --> 49:16.588
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't ever see him but he's the king at that time period.
49:17.248 --> 49:24.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And just like to Harris, he inherited a real bad situation and he managed to for 25 years
49:33.072 --> 49:34.493
[SPEAKER_01]: who again, we'll talk about.
49:34.874 --> 49:56.851
[SPEAKER_01]: He was egg on the unworthy and he essentially was just totally prone to vices, corruption, you know, fathering bastards, hundreds of bastards who he legitimized has most infamous act, which ensured there would be war for like five generations after him,
50:04.607 --> 50:10.637
[SPEAKER_01]: He also didn't like Darren, his heir, his own heir, his own son.
50:10.677 --> 50:14.663
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't like him because he didn't like his mom, who was a gone sister.
50:17.857 --> 50:30.885
[SPEAKER_01]: what he did was so doubt, during his reign, while he was still alive, so doubt that Darren was a bastard that he was illegitimate, that he was the son of Amin, the dragon knight, and not agon, the unworthy.
50:31.665 --> 50:40.190
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, when agon died, and he legitimized all his bastards, the seeds of like rebellion were just already there, and that's the black fire rebellion.
50:40.631 --> 50:42.392
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren walks into that,
50:42.772 --> 50:47.234
[SPEAKER_01]: He manages to just be a good king for a corner of a century.
50:47.654 --> 50:51.115
[SPEAKER_01]: He endured that first black fire rebellion.
50:51.735 --> 50:59.578
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the rare example of a good king who also raised his kids well because Baylor breaks beer.
50:59.618 --> 51:02.399
[SPEAKER_01]: If you like to Baylor in a night of the seven kingdoms,
51:02.939 --> 51:07.042
[SPEAKER_01]: Darren's his dad, he raised him really well, make hard too.
51:07.222 --> 51:09.544
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know like, make hard can be a little bit of a jerk.
51:09.884 --> 51:14.488
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a little stern, uh, make hard has got his own child's woes with his kids.
51:15.468 --> 51:17.870
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think make cars a pretty stand up guy.
51:18.150 --> 51:19.251
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's pretty decent.
51:19.291 --> 51:20.632
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't mean to kill his brother.
51:21.453 --> 51:24.155
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both, you know, they were besties before that.
51:24.215 --> 51:26.357
[SPEAKER_01]: They won the red grass field along with
51:29.348 --> 51:30.969
[SPEAKER_01]: uncle, Brendan Rivers.
51:32.709 --> 51:39.132
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I just think, dare in the second, not the most, not the flashiest king of Westeros, not the most remarkable.
51:39.632 --> 51:47.936
[SPEAKER_01]: No one could look at him and say he had the biggest accomplishments, but I think the seven kingdoms was like on a knife-sedge when he inherited it.
51:48.276 --> 51:54.178
[SPEAKER_01]: And unlike Megor who like brought it back by being the worst so much that everyone
51:55.919 --> 52:02.185
[SPEAKER_01]: um, dare and brought it back by just being good to the point where like people accepted his rule and were grateful for it.
52:02.645 --> 52:10.272
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless they were an open rebellion against him in which case they cursed him because after the black fire rebellion he took all their property away and demoted them.
52:10.292 --> 52:13.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but you know what they betrayed him after he tried to be a good king.
52:14.095 --> 52:15.936
[SPEAKER_01]: So who's fault is that?
52:17.213 --> 52:39.309
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, who's fall, and he's part of the best example of he inherited a crazy situation from his dad, especially like he said earlier, legitimizing all those bastards, but even after all that he did try to form, you know, he had all the bastards at King's Lane and he could have expelled them, said, you got to live after your family's castle, he didn't do that.
52:39.329 --> 52:43.491
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, hey, you're here, you're a children of the crown,
52:44.352 --> 52:46.434
[SPEAKER_02]: How about we all work together?
52:46.494 --> 52:49.196
[SPEAKER_02]: How about you all are nearby?
52:50.477 --> 53:01.846
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe he didn't go so far as to, hey, I'm gonna put you on the small council right now, but I'm willing to have you be adjacent to me, maybe in some type of advisory role.
53:02.026 --> 53:02.226
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:03.104 --> 53:09.210
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, the other thing, we got a shout there in the second out for which this is part of what caused unrest in his lifetime.
53:09.590 --> 53:13.074
[SPEAKER_01]: But history will reflect that he was right and it was a good thing.
53:13.574 --> 53:18.779
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren the second is the one that actually formally got Dorne to be in the seven kingdoms.
53:19.079 --> 53:24.344
[SPEAKER_01]: So Baylor the Blessed laid the groundwork for this by promising that Darren has
53:27.087 --> 53:30.429
[SPEAKER_01]: who was a kid at the time when Baylor did his penance and walked across Dorn.
53:30.729 --> 53:33.131
[SPEAKER_01]: But he would marry a Dornish princess.
53:33.811 --> 53:36.253
[SPEAKER_01]: And that that is how Dorn would come into the fold.
53:36.873 --> 53:40.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Dare and when he became an adult honored that he married a Dornish princess.
53:43.417 --> 53:45.118
[SPEAKER_01]: She came to live with him in King's Landing.
53:45.558 --> 53:56.084
[SPEAKER_01]: He made another marriage compact with his brother-in-law, essentially, the Prince of Doran, which solidified it, and then that Doran is Prince Bentheny.
53:56.664 --> 54:01.166
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren II not only did a good job by the Seven Kingdoms.
54:01.206 --> 54:02.407
[SPEAKER_01]: He already had to rule.
54:02.827 --> 54:06.329
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the one who made Doran a part of the Seven Kingdoms.
54:07.390 --> 54:09.711
[SPEAKER_01]: And he did it without spilling a drop of blood.
54:11.872 --> 54:13.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of some of the lords of westerns didn't like it.
54:14.394 --> 54:18.416
[SPEAKER_01]: They were so used to the dornish being the enemy is that they had problems with that.
54:19.017 --> 54:27.262
[SPEAKER_01]: But once again, who's problem is that because now, by the time of Game of Thrones, we see that having dorn in the seven kingdoms is a good thing.
54:27.342 --> 54:29.744
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, Darren was right.
54:31.009 --> 54:37.298
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why do we need hostile neighbors like, hey, let's just marry people off and have everyone be one big happy family.
54:37.398 --> 54:37.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
54:37.898 --> 54:38.099
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
54:38.559 --> 54:39.761
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, dare in the second.
54:40.242 --> 54:41.323
[SPEAKER_01]: He's on my list for the best.
54:42.405 --> 54:43.686
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's your next worst?
54:44.854 --> 54:50.636
[SPEAKER_02]: who my next worst is going to be Amy's Targaryen, a name so horrible.
54:51.056 --> 54:52.516
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't think we rarely see it again.
54:52.536 --> 54:55.457
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the only other Amy's is like Amy's black fire.
54:55.778 --> 54:56.698
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, names are kidding.
54:56.798 --> 54:56.918
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy's.
54:57.758 --> 54:59.919
[SPEAKER_02]: And then people call it, use the name, Amy's.
55:00.299 --> 55:02.020
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, some people call it Amy's.
55:02.040 --> 55:03.220
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I call it Amy's.
55:03.680 --> 55:04.961
[SPEAKER_01]: like, totally.
55:05.802 --> 55:07.403
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you anus fan or anus fan?
55:07.423 --> 55:08.564
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
55:08.744 --> 55:10.405
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was anus for a long time.
55:10.465 --> 55:12.967
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, who named this this guy?
55:12.987 --> 55:14.748
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the conqueror.
55:14.968 --> 55:16.730
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the name does get anus.
55:17.530 --> 55:17.810
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:18.151 --> 55:20.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Anus Targaryen, I think, is how it's actually said.
55:20.892 --> 55:23.995
[SPEAKER_01]: But even still, it's an unfortunate name for an unfortunate man.
55:24.215 --> 55:25.576
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a great choice.
55:25.836 --> 55:26.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is he one of the worst?
55:27.017 --> 55:28.438
[SPEAKER_01]: We already talked about him a little bit.
55:29.852 --> 55:32.072
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he was ill prepared to roll.
55:32.152 --> 55:39.074
[SPEAKER_02]: He was, when he growing up, he was a little sickly kid until he finally got his drag in, which is great, awesome, super.
55:39.414 --> 55:46.855
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think, and this is, you know, could be a fault of Egg on the Conqueror, prepared him to actually roll the seven kingdoms.
55:47.115 --> 55:48.895
[SPEAKER_02]: My man was a prince of the town.
55:49.155 --> 55:50.676
[SPEAKER_02]: He was out here having all these parties.
55:50.696 --> 55:52.836
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's fun, it's lively, it's great.
55:53.076 --> 55:57.617
[SPEAKER_02]: But when it was time to inherit the iron throne after the unfortunate death of Egg on the Conqueror,
55:57.877 --> 55:59.719
[SPEAKER_02]: he's like, hey, the parties are going to continue.
56:00.099 --> 56:01.260
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything's going to keep going.
56:01.340 --> 56:02.401
[SPEAKER_02]: How is they ever going to stop?
56:02.642 --> 56:03.402
[SPEAKER_02]: And it does stop.
56:03.583 --> 56:19.818
[SPEAKER_02]: He had, I want to say, four active rebellions right when he became king, the between the red hair and taking hair and haul back, claim to be the son of Aaron the black, the priest king, Lodos at the Iron Islands, the clearing that the drown god shell right.
56:19.838 --> 56:21.860
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the drown god shell, rather than again.
56:22.340 --> 56:39.830
[SPEAKER_02]: The Vulture King down in Dorn called in on his mayhem and the veil of air and house Aaron dispute when one brother locked the other brother away and what was Amy still when letting his brother make or go, make or have a cool somebody say go figure and solve most these issues out while he sent the castle going.
56:40.250 --> 56:40.991
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
56:41.471 --> 56:41.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
56:42.532 --> 56:43.192
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:43.392 --> 56:44.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he really, he really did.
56:45.053 --> 56:47.955
[SPEAKER_01]: He is very similar to Vaceris the first in this way.
56:49.155 --> 56:54.236
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but he just, he just didn't understand why people were upset.
56:54.656 --> 56:55.717
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't know how to handle it.
56:55.737 --> 56:59.878
[SPEAKER_02]: At least if a Sarah's was lucky enough where like, everybody's like, oh, you know, how's our game and it's here?
56:59.898 --> 57:00.338
[SPEAKER_02]: That's cool.
57:00.938 --> 57:02.078
[SPEAKER_02]: This is still a new thing.
57:02.118 --> 57:02.478
[SPEAKER_02]: We need it.
57:02.498 --> 57:09.320
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody, and I guess that's always the thing between A and E's and Megor, they're both two extremes.
57:09.540 --> 57:10.040
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
57:10.160 --> 57:18.782
[SPEAKER_02]: If they would, would alert to work together, man, there's like a perfect king in there, but when you have one person who's just trying to throw a party and one person who's just trying to start a fight,
57:19.883 --> 57:30.854
[SPEAKER_02]: things don't work out and I think Anis was just really at an unfortunate time where they need it a stronger fist to make sure the seven kingdoms were still solidified.
57:31.154 --> 57:31.834
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
57:31.935 --> 57:39.062
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Anis is, you know, he's the one who came after Agon the Conqueror, Agon's son with his sister wife, Rainis.
57:40.890 --> 57:48.433
[SPEAKER_01]: He really, you know, the best thing Andy stood was one, he married a aless of Valarian who was a good queen.
57:49.194 --> 57:51.575
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and two, he had a lot of kids.
57:51.955 --> 57:57.958
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is ultimately what secured the Targaryen dynasty was his kids, you know, Jaeheris is one of his kids.
57:58.138 --> 58:01.019
[SPEAKER_01]: He had enough kids that make or the cruel could kill off a couple of them.
58:01.599 --> 58:05.601
[SPEAKER_01]: And there would still be a Targaryen dynasty because Maygor did kill off.
58:05.681 --> 58:07.302
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe two of of
58:09.863 --> 58:13.024
[SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, Amy's really let the kingdoms crumble around him.
58:13.104 --> 58:35.494
[SPEAKER_01]: He inherited rule and a lot of his choices were just like lack of foresight, like the big, the big mistake he made was marrying his son Agon to his daughter, Reina, without thinking through the implications of that, because that's what turned the church against House Targaryen because that's what they did in
58:37.955 --> 58:53.667
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't, they made an exception for Egon the Conquer and his sister wives, like they were exceptional people, but when it came down to like, oh, this is just going to be an incestuous dynasty, he did it without really thinking and it basically like stoked so much on rest.
59:03.928 --> 59:04.569
[SPEAKER_01]: five years.
59:04.809 --> 59:08.171
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all A&E's ruled for five years by the end of it.
59:08.692 --> 59:14.976
[SPEAKER_01]: The Targaryen dynasty was on the verge of collapse, if not for our savior, may go to the cruel.
59:15.076 --> 59:18.719
[SPEAKER_01]: So he wouldn't have done my list if he wasn't on your list.
59:18.759 --> 59:19.560
[SPEAKER_01]: He deserves it.
59:20.440 --> 59:23.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he just, just was not ready for the rule.
59:23.324 --> 59:28.830
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if he came up, came up in a time where Biserys the first was ruling, I think Amy's gonna handle it.
59:28.910 --> 59:37.440
[SPEAKER_02]: He can handle a situation that required so much, you know, political maneuvering and dealing, maybe he didn't have the strongest people around him to help them.
59:37.780 --> 59:40.061
[SPEAKER_02]: with that transitional power either.
59:40.081 --> 59:42.301
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone just, you know, you depend on it.
59:42.341 --> 59:44.122
[SPEAKER_02]: It's easy to say, hey, agon, the conquerors here.
59:44.402 --> 59:45.442
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got everything in order.
59:45.642 --> 59:47.443
[SPEAKER_02]: No one's going to justify him.
59:47.783 --> 59:54.925
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like looking, maybe that's agon, not being honest with himself and looking at his son and going like, hmm, have I raised him?
59:56.633 --> 01:00:02.438
[SPEAKER_02]: a heart, you have a Richard Child, a heart, but like, is this the child that will make the dynasty continue?
01:00:02.558 --> 01:00:02.858
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00:03.339 --> 01:00:04.200
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a hard job.
01:00:04.300 --> 01:00:05.921
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you raised him well enough to do it?
01:00:06.902 --> 01:00:08.143
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really interesting point.
01:00:08.243 --> 01:00:10.946
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in a different time, Andy's could have been a great ruler.
01:00:11.506 --> 01:00:18.973
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is that perfect storm of like unprepared ruler inheriting a really difficult situation.
01:00:19.333 --> 01:00:19.613
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,
01:00:21.675 --> 01:00:31.141
[SPEAKER_01]: a good setup, it's not like the kingdoms were on it, you know, in trouble when Egon died, but they were new, you know, he was the first ruler.
01:00:31.181 --> 01:00:36.905
[SPEAKER_01]: There was always going to be contention after he died to see like, was that just a one-off thing?
01:00:37.445 --> 01:00:41.027
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have, you know, a real ruling lineage here?
01:00:41.047 --> 01:00:44.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and Amy's just wasn't up to that task.
01:00:44.470 --> 01:00:46.991
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, Jaeheris is the king who was up to
01:00:49.953 --> 01:01:07.885
[SPEAKER_01]: what agon did and then make it a long-term thing, but, you know, if he was later in the history of the Seven Kingdoms, when they were established, you know, when it wasn't a situation where every, you know, great Lord is going to turn against you the second, the last guy died.
01:01:08.645 --> 01:01:14.669
[SPEAKER_01]: He might have, he might have been really popular, but that wasn't in the cards for him, so he is one of the worst.
01:01:15.842 --> 01:01:21.723
[SPEAKER_02]: one of the worst, but I guess the real question is, do you have an even worse or king back in Albedaines?
01:01:26.244 --> 01:01:28.844
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that I do to be honest.
01:01:28.864 --> 01:01:30.044
[SPEAKER_01]: My question is being clear here.
01:01:30.364 --> 01:01:34.865
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think your worse are the worst.
01:01:35.185 --> 01:01:42.026
[SPEAKER_01]: So no, I know I don't is the answer to that, but I do have another one who deserves to be considered one of the worst.
01:01:42.527 --> 01:01:44.107
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is probably going to make some people mad.
01:01:45.707 --> 01:01:47.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Darren the first the young dragon.
01:01:48.729 --> 01:01:49.490
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's got it.
01:01:49.770 --> 01:01:53.333
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a cool little nickname because people liked him.
01:01:53.473 --> 01:01:54.234
[SPEAKER_01]: He went to war.
01:01:54.514 --> 01:01:55.515
[SPEAKER_01]: He conquered Doran.
01:01:55.535 --> 01:01:57.836
[SPEAKER_01]: So we did the thing I got on the Conqueror could not do.
01:01:58.196 --> 01:02:00.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Conqueror Doran, but the problem was,
01:02:01.659 --> 01:02:03.160
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't really need to conquer Dorn.
01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:12.346
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren, the first took over the seven kingdoms after the dance, a few after the dance of the dragons.
01:02:12.546 --> 01:02:14.527
[SPEAKER_01]: After Agon III, we got Darren the first.
01:02:15.128 --> 01:02:21.672
[SPEAKER_01]: And he kind of immediately was like, I'm going to conquer Dorn, even though we're still reeling from the dance of the dragons.
01:02:22.792 --> 01:02:24.854
[SPEAKER_01]: He very famously said that his
01:02:25.574 --> 01:02:28.135
[SPEAKER_01]: his small council was like, we don't have any dragons.
01:02:28.155 --> 01:02:28.855
[SPEAKER_01]: How can we do that?
01:02:28.875 --> 01:02:30.775
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, you have a dragon right in front of you.
01:02:30.815 --> 01:02:39.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So like he was 14 when he took over the iron throne, his uncle Viserys very famously did not insist on regions for him.
01:02:39.857 --> 01:02:44.858
[SPEAKER_01]: He just wanted because they just come off a region see that was filled with like snakes in the grass.
01:02:44.898 --> 01:02:46.518
[SPEAKER_01]: People trying to take over the seven kingdom.
01:02:46.538 --> 01:02:48.299
[SPEAKER_01]: So they weren't going to do that again.
01:02:49.859 --> 01:02:51.539
[SPEAKER_01]: But Darren decided to go to war
01:02:54.140 --> 01:02:58.143
[SPEAKER_01]: that tens of thousands died, he conquered Dorn.
01:02:58.963 --> 01:03:07.289
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, and then the second he left, the Dornish small folk just killed everybody left behind, which is what always happens when people try to conquer Dorn.
01:03:07.489 --> 01:03:08.389
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, yeah, I did it.
01:03:08.449 --> 01:03:13.573
[SPEAKER_01]: I conquered Dorn, they leave and the Dorn are just like, no, no, you know.
01:03:13.633 --> 01:03:18.196
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't conquer Dorn, you came and camped out here for a while and we let you and then you left.
01:03:18.756 --> 01:03:19.577
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's Dorn again.
01:03:23.179 --> 01:03:25.147
[SPEAKER_01]: because he conquered Dorn, he left.
01:03:26.108 --> 01:03:28.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Immediately the Dornish rose up.
01:03:28.850 --> 01:03:33.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots more people died and then he went back to negotiate a piece and they just murdered him.
01:03:34.074 --> 01:03:43.141
[SPEAKER_01]: So Darren, Darren the first, you know, Baylor the blessed had to do what he did because of the ruinous war of Darren the first.
01:03:43.701 --> 01:03:50.126
[SPEAKER_01]: So he is regarded as like a brilliant military mind like he did wage a successful campaign in Dorn.
01:03:55.650 --> 01:04:03.433
[SPEAKER_01]: He just didn't, if he wanted to rule as much as he wanted to get glory, he could have been a great king, but he wasn't.
01:04:03.853 --> 01:04:07.335
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's a perfect, perfect or word for it.
01:04:07.355 --> 01:04:09.335
[SPEAKER_02]: Just wanted to go out there and get glory.
01:04:09.355 --> 01:04:10.416
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all you wanted to do.
01:04:10.656 --> 01:04:11.676
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to prove.
01:04:12.136 --> 01:04:15.458
[SPEAKER_02]: And I understand that you want to re establish House Targaryen.
01:04:15.478 --> 01:04:17.858
[SPEAKER_02]: You're coming off a time where you did have dragons.
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:18.599
[SPEAKER_02]: They're still,
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:36.380
[SPEAKER_02]: One wild dragon out there somewhere, maybe there are a few little stunted dragons still around, but you're like, wow, my house used to be the house that Command the skies and you do feel a little lesser, like you want to be the one to reclaim something, do something that no other dragon writers ever done.
01:04:36.680 --> 01:04:37.641
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're like, okay.
01:04:38.262 --> 01:04:53.478
[SPEAKER_02]: go take door but like why like what what's the that is that your only motivation it didn't didn't he write that horrible book about the door to people that describe it wasn't he the one that named him like salty dornish so he's dornish saying to him.
01:04:54.058 --> 01:05:21.143
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you might be right because he wrote it was like his Chronicle of his campaign so it was very much a here's what the door to show like as I'm fighting them was kind of the thing and it is like it you know the septons all or the the mysters I'll really like it because it's a very good firsthand you know resource of what happened but yeah, not the most flattering for the door-nish for sure
01:05:23.366 --> 01:05:25.028
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, not going to make him look good.
01:05:25.048 --> 01:05:45.089
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't trying to make him look good, but just the kingdom he inherited wasn't a complete success coming off a gun, the third, maybe not, but it wasn't like it was we needed another war.
01:05:45.649 --> 01:05:48.790
[SPEAKER_02]: They found that war before it wasn't another war that was needed.
01:05:48.910 --> 01:05:51.751
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't there to really help the people in any way.
01:05:51.831 --> 01:05:58.753
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just to show the the lords of the reach in the storm lands like, hey, let's go carve out a piece of the of door.
01:05:59.173 --> 01:06:01.213
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally totally.
01:06:01.613 --> 01:06:06.155
[SPEAKER_01]: He had the the choice to establish even more stability for the seven kingdoms.
01:06:06.215 --> 01:06:07.515
[SPEAKER_01]: And he decided to go to war.
01:06:08.965 --> 01:06:14.168
[SPEAKER_01]: what 20, where are we, egg on the third rule for 26 years.
01:06:14.208 --> 01:06:18.170
[SPEAKER_01]: So 30, a year is after the end of the dance, give or take.
01:06:18.430 --> 01:06:23.053
[SPEAKER_01]: He decided, let's do another, after the most devastating civil war in the history of the seven kingdoms.
01:06:23.073 --> 01:06:26.275
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, guess we could maybe use another war.
01:06:27.436 --> 01:06:29.757
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he definitely,
01:06:31.889 --> 01:06:50.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Could have really just help the seven kingdoms be a better place than he didn't so yeah and he died so quickly he really didn't leave much of an impact aside from that one war that's really it also although he did also lose the crown of egg on the conqueror so if you ever wondered where that went.
01:06:51.929 --> 01:06:52.549
[SPEAKER_01]: Darren's fault.
01:06:52.869 --> 01:06:54.370
[SPEAKER_01]: He lost the door when he died.
01:06:55.670 --> 01:06:56.350
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
01:06:56.390 --> 01:06:59.291
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll see it in the, in the winter winter.
01:06:59.451 --> 01:07:00.332
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything happens in winter.
01:07:00.352 --> 01:07:01.612
[SPEAKER_02]: Right exactly.
01:07:02.052 --> 01:07:13.876
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I know we, we're, this is going to be a long show buckle in viewers listeners, because we got a few more to go, who is your last the best Targaryen King in your eyes.
01:07:15.062 --> 01:07:30.488
[SPEAKER_02]: or coming off the loss of egg on the conquerors crown i'm going to say the best king i guess in my opinion the the best king of them all egg on the conqueror demand that help established the seven kingdoms the way they were i mean he was him he made all this possible
01:07:31.148 --> 01:07:32.730
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, he had great people riding on me.
01:07:32.750 --> 01:07:33.990
[SPEAKER_02]: He had his two sister wives.
01:07:34.231 --> 01:07:38.093
[SPEAKER_02]: He had Orris Baratheon, along with other great houses as well.
01:07:38.173 --> 01:07:43.257
[SPEAKER_02]: But after he made this every kingdom, he was able to establish a foothold in the reach.
01:07:43.317 --> 01:07:44.898
[SPEAKER_02]: I put in a house to our rail in charge.
01:07:45.078 --> 01:07:50.222
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to get his half rather Orris Baratheon, put him into storms and get them under control.
01:07:50.622 --> 01:07:54.446
[SPEAKER_02]: He was able to create the small council like that didn't exist.
01:07:54.706 --> 01:08:05.416
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the one that gave order to the people around him that would help him govern the realm and creating the small council with the guidance from his sister wife, the senior he created the King's Guard.
01:08:05.576 --> 01:08:10.380
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we need someone who dedicated to protect the world family and help lead our armies.
01:08:10.420 --> 01:08:17.146
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get the best nights in the realm and put them in order to, you know, make sure we don't get assassinated all the time.
01:08:18.907 --> 01:08:20.388
[SPEAKER_02]: can't we just keep going on?
01:08:20.488 --> 01:08:24.890
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but he, he's the one that made all this possible.
01:08:25.410 --> 01:08:31.773
[SPEAKER_02]: I really don't have anything negative to say about him, besides all the crazy war to make it happen.
01:08:31.793 --> 01:08:32.173
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that bad?
01:08:32.193 --> 01:08:33.414
[SPEAKER_02]: Should he have probably burned hair and haul to a Chris?
01:08:33.434 --> 01:08:34.714
[SPEAKER_02]: What are those innocent people in it?
01:08:34.734 --> 01:08:42.618
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
01:08:43.418 --> 01:08:44.199
[SPEAKER_02]: He made it possible.
01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:47.761
[SPEAKER_02]: So he brought an age of peace that Westeros had never seen.
01:08:47.862 --> 01:08:52.025
[SPEAKER_02]: Before that, there were wars all the time, more small skirmishes.
01:08:54.206 --> 01:08:56.828
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the one that made it like, hey, let's stop there.
01:08:57.028 --> 01:09:00.731
[SPEAKER_02]: There are no more small wars.
01:09:00.751 --> 01:09:03.133
[SPEAKER_02]: Did it kind of make brain wars to a bigger scale?
01:09:03.433 --> 01:09:05.335
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but that's just a side effect.
01:09:06.195 --> 01:09:06.956
[SPEAKER_02]: I stopped one thing.
01:09:06.976 --> 01:09:07.837
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't stop everything.
01:09:11.158 --> 01:09:14.721
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's just undisputedly got to be near the top of the list.
01:09:14.881 --> 01:09:21.307
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if I have to look at my ultimate top to it's going to be Egon and Jeharris probably.
01:09:22.147 --> 01:09:33.597
[SPEAKER_01]: But Egon, you know, you're right, like aside from the conquest, which like, you know, we got the lower reveal potentially in-house of the dragon that he may have had a prophetic dream that fueled that.
01:09:33.617 --> 01:09:37.260
[SPEAKER_01]: But that aside, he wanted to unite the seven kingdoms.
01:09:37.420 --> 01:09:37.921
[SPEAKER_01]: He did.
01:09:38.822 --> 01:09:43.428
[SPEAKER_01]: He pulled it off, could have been a lot worse, bloodshed-wise than it was honestly.
01:09:43.588 --> 01:09:54.502
[SPEAKER_01]: He did one thing that he and Robert Baratheon have in common, that I think all the best kings on this list have in common is when people submitted to hit him, he let them.
01:09:55.003 --> 01:09:56.684
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, he didn't dishonor them.
01:09:56.724 --> 01:09:58.165
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't take everything away from them.
01:09:58.205 --> 01:10:00.767
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, great, you can, you can serve me.
01:10:00.907 --> 01:10:07.432
[SPEAKER_01]: That, you know, he like bending the knee be an honorable option for people and because of that, they did.
01:10:08.813 --> 01:10:13.136
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I got on the first like, like you said, like, what negative is there to say about him?
01:10:13.297 --> 01:10:15.238
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he did a bad job raising his kids.
01:10:15.758 --> 01:10:18.560
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they had different influences around them.
01:10:18.901 --> 01:10:22.283
[SPEAKER_01]: Anis, he probably probably could have done a better job,
01:10:25.683 --> 01:10:40.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless he did that, you know, it's I'm saying this and I'm like, did he not compare it to like the seri the book doesn't make it a point that he did a bad job of raising And he's I guess I would say in the same way that like the seris did a bad job raising his kids
01:10:41.690 --> 01:10:49.954
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I guess you could look at it as, you know, his wife, Randy's had passed away the mother of Annie's.
01:10:50.014 --> 01:10:58.377
[SPEAKER_02]: So he had to take our responsibility, probably more, you know, of course the hand maids around her are influencing of Annie's.
01:10:59.833 --> 01:11:05.638
[SPEAKER_02]: Eggon did make it a point to bring Amy's with him when he did do his processions across Westero.
01:11:05.679 --> 01:11:08.381
[SPEAKER_02]: So he did have these other influences.
01:11:08.401 --> 01:11:10.683
[SPEAKER_02]: He did see Eggon in action.
01:11:10.883 --> 01:11:13.446
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, everyone just doesn't have it in them to be.
01:11:14.835 --> 01:11:24.019
[SPEAKER_02]: to be good at whatever they're doing, like maybe Amy's can't be a starting quarterback up at NFL team, but you know, somebody has to help wrap tape around people.
01:11:24.039 --> 01:11:26.861
[SPEAKER_02]: He probably should be the leadership position.
01:11:26.921 --> 01:11:28.561
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only so much egg on, can do in that.
01:11:28.801 --> 01:11:30.522
[SPEAKER_02]: It ended with his other son, Megor.
01:11:30.822 --> 01:11:40.627
[SPEAKER_02]: He still had his wife, Pesignio, who, you know, instilled in Megor that you have to be the greatest warrior ever, ever, and you are being slid it by your father and your older brother.
01:11:40.667 --> 01:11:42.708
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to make up for it in these other ways.
01:11:43.148 --> 01:11:53.173
[SPEAKER_02]: just so different influences in their lives, but in terms of Aegon's influence over the seven kingdoms, I mean, he established all, everyone has just had great reverence for him.
01:11:53.573 --> 01:12:00.476
[SPEAKER_02]: No one, I've never heard in my reading of Fire and Blood or a word of I aspire to somebody say like, you know what, I couldn't stand that guy.
01:12:00.636 --> 01:12:02.097
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, shout, shout out to Aegon.
01:12:02.257 --> 01:12:02.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Nah.
01:12:02.917 --> 01:12:09.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And here, I'm going to read a passage here from Fire and Blood, our Archmacer Gil Day in writing this down.
01:12:10.100 --> 01:12:15.963
[SPEAKER_01]: 16 Targaryens followed egg on the dragon to the Iron Throne before the dynasty was a last toppled in Roberts, Rebellion.
01:12:16.283 --> 01:12:20.605
[SPEAKER_01]: They numbered amongst them wise men and foolish, cruel men and kind, good men and evil.
01:12:21.045 --> 01:12:33.819
[SPEAKER_01]: Yet, if the dragon kings are considered solely on the basis of their legacies, the laws and institutions and improvements they left behind, the name of Kigaya Ga on the first belongs near the top of the list in peace, as well as in war.
01:12:34.440 --> 01:12:37.363
[SPEAKER_01]: So, how can he not be near the top of our list?
01:12:37.703 --> 01:12:39.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are we to disagree with Archmacer Gildan?
01:12:40.972 --> 01:12:41.392
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't.
01:12:41.592 --> 01:12:42.553
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't.
01:12:43.133 --> 01:12:43.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fair.
01:12:44.193 --> 01:12:44.874
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great choice.
01:12:46.134 --> 01:12:46.854
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got to be there.
01:12:47.014 --> 01:12:48.115
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a given for a reason.
01:12:49.735 --> 01:12:55.938
[SPEAKER_01]: My last best one, I will tell you, I agonized over whether he should be on the best or the worst list.
01:12:56.138 --> 01:12:59.459
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to know what you think, whether he should be one of the best or the worst.
01:12:59.979 --> 01:13:01.480
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is egg on the fifth.
01:13:02.320 --> 01:13:04.240
[SPEAKER_01]: Egg from anite of the Seven Kingdoms.
01:13:05.541 --> 01:13:13.302
[SPEAKER_01]: So Eggon was known as Agami unlikely because he was so far down the line of succession, nobody assumed he'd be king.
01:13:13.342 --> 01:13:15.302
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the fourth son of a fourth son.
01:13:15.942 --> 01:13:23.384
[SPEAKER_01]: There were pestilences and wars and accidents like Baylor dying at Ashford Meadow.
01:13:24.024 --> 01:13:28.004
[SPEAKER_01]: All these different things kind of conspired to make Egg become king.
01:13:28.364 --> 01:13:30.425
[SPEAKER_01]: He became king at a great council where
01:13:31.585 --> 01:13:36.171
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, his father may car, you know, didn't have an obvious air.
01:13:36.692 --> 01:13:45.262
[SPEAKER_01]: There was, uh, the, I think the daughter of one of his kids, there was the,
01:13:47.900 --> 01:13:54.982
[SPEAKER_01]: son Megor of Ari and Bright Flame, who nobody wanted to be the king and he was also a child.
01:13:55.182 --> 01:13:58.683
[SPEAKER_01]: There was Amen who was a maester, maester Amen from Game of Thrones.
01:13:58.943 --> 01:14:08.086
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Aege who was considered half a peasant, the Lord's all hated Aege because he spent most of his life with peasants because he was dunked squire.
01:14:08.986 --> 01:14:09.807
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was a,
01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:16.341
[SPEAKER_01]: black fire who came over to try to claim the crown during this great council.
01:14:17.702 --> 01:14:20.123
[SPEAKER_01]: So ultimately they ended up going with egg.
01:14:21.483 --> 01:14:31.106
[SPEAKER_01]: And egg was a really probably one of the most divisive rulers of the seven kingdoms because he had lived with the peasants.
01:14:31.506 --> 01:14:37.568
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the only Targaryen king who lived with peasants for a lot of his life.
01:14:38.029 --> 01:14:40.910
[SPEAKER_01]: He did a lot of policies that were really progressive
01:14:42.390 --> 01:14:49.134
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the small folk reduce some of the powers of the lords, which really did not go over well with them.
01:14:49.475 --> 01:14:53.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of the nobles hated egg, a lot of the small folk loved egg.
01:14:53.777 --> 01:14:55.839
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of walked this interesting balance.
01:14:56.379 --> 01:15:01.282
[SPEAKER_01]: And then his problem, like so many of the others, was partially as kids.
01:15:01.662 --> 01:15:05.545
[SPEAKER_01]: He made a bunch of betrothals because he was the first Targaryen ruler to say,
01:15:07.606 --> 01:15:12.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's not doing great things to the kids we make that they're all in sestuous.
01:15:12.987 --> 01:15:21.469
[SPEAKER_01]: So he tried to use his kids for political marriages, but the problem was that Egg married for love because he assumed he would never be king.
01:15:21.969 --> 01:15:23.209
[SPEAKER_01]: He married Beth a blackwood.
01:15:23.649 --> 01:15:26.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody cared because he was the fourth son of a fourth son.
01:15:27.130 --> 01:15:29.791
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all his kids said, hey, maybe we should marry for love.
01:15:29.811 --> 01:15:30.911
[SPEAKER_01]: And they all did what they wanted.
01:15:31.431 --> 01:15:31.511
[SPEAKER_01]: And
01:15:32.490 --> 01:15:50.094
[SPEAKER_01]: for his eldest that meant breaking a betrothal that would have seen him married to the daughter of Lionel Baraffian, which started a rebellion for Jenny of Old Stones, a peasant who lived out in the riverlands which the singers loved.
01:15:50.274 --> 01:15:53.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, egg with his kids even being close to the peasants.
01:15:54.195 --> 01:15:58.836
[SPEAKER_01]: He had two other kids who wanted to start practicing incest again, which is where the Targaryen dynasty
01:16:01.817 --> 01:16:10.332
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, just in general, he definitely, I don't know, had had good and bad in equal measure.
01:16:10.773 --> 01:16:13.557
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think, one of the better ones are one of the worse?
01:16:15.023 --> 01:16:31.578
[SPEAKER_02]: Except one of the better kings and like you said he he wanted to do good by the small folk He was around them so much more than probably any other Targaryen before him or really after him besides probably Daenerys in the series Targaryen that was really you know, hey
01:16:33.040 --> 01:16:36.624
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I come from this high position, but I'm with you right now.
01:16:36.765 --> 01:16:37.846
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm living amongst you.
01:16:38.026 --> 01:16:39.989
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing what you're doing every day.
01:16:40.129 --> 01:16:47.318
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing the things you're doing every day, and you just don't get there from anybody so high up of high station as a Targaryen, but
01:16:49.034 --> 01:16:53.438
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, it kind of, and for his kids, you know, it's good they married for love.
01:16:53.578 --> 01:16:55.560
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't blame Egg for that.
01:16:55.640 --> 01:16:58.042
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can't help it, your kids are doing what you did.
01:16:58.142 --> 01:17:02.426
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not really a bad thing except when it calls a minor rebellion with the Stormlands.
01:17:02.446 --> 01:17:03.086
[SPEAKER_02]: Can't be bad.
01:17:03.527 --> 01:17:04.768
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't blame Egg, though, for that.
01:17:05.428 --> 01:17:09.732
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess he did have some issues when it comes over there to Summer Hall.
01:17:10.312 --> 01:17:11.874
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can... Yeah.
01:17:12.616 --> 01:17:24.622
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know what the issue, that's one of the things, the hard thing about Egg is so much is intentionally left a mystery for now, because George Armour obviously wants to write it still for the Duncan Egg not novellas.
01:17:25.143 --> 01:17:33.667
[SPEAKER_01]: So we don't know what happened at Summer Hall, but it did mess up Eris, probably kind of led to the downfall of the Targaryens, so Eggs got that on him too.
01:17:34.768 --> 01:17:38.590
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know what, I, I, I secretly hope that it wasn't,
01:17:39.832 --> 01:17:40.833
[SPEAKER_02]: completely his fault.
01:17:40.893 --> 01:17:43.976
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, how much do you blame on magical dreams?
01:17:43.996 --> 01:17:53.205
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you somebody sends you a magical dream, and then I try to do the magical dream, it goes wrong or something outside influence causes to go wrong.
01:17:53.245 --> 01:17:54.126
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, how you blame me?
01:17:54.486 --> 01:17:55.847
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing a magical dream.
01:17:55.867 --> 01:17:58.510
[SPEAKER_02]: I was the fire magic was in my head.
01:17:59.593 --> 01:18:00.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
01:18:01.376 --> 01:18:02.657
[SPEAKER_01]: So, was it his fault?
01:18:02.878 --> 01:18:03.519
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:05.041
[SPEAKER_01]: We may never know.
01:18:05.061 --> 01:18:09.567
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that we find out at some point, whether that's from the novellas or a night of the seven kingdoms.
01:18:10.088 --> 01:18:14.494
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the thing to take away is that egg was a king who
01:18:16.379 --> 01:18:31.033
[SPEAKER_01]: was not prepared to rule who was not brought up to rule like was not assumed he would be a ruler and he still managed to come in during a period so like where there were a bunch of extra black fire rebellions because there were a bunch of them.
01:18:31.454 --> 01:18:35.017
[SPEAKER_01]: He had to deal with a bunch of them and he did it successfully.
01:18:35.037 --> 01:18:36.679
[SPEAKER_01]: He kept the seven kingdoms together.
01:18:36.699 --> 01:18:39.601
[SPEAKER_01]: He kind of set the stage for his
01:18:40.382 --> 01:18:44.969
[SPEAKER_01]: successor, who is named, I am blanking on.
01:18:45.090 --> 01:18:46.231
[SPEAKER_01]: Jaeheris, right?
01:18:47.053 --> 01:18:49.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Jaeheris, the second.
01:18:49.997 --> 01:18:51.219
[SPEAKER_01]: To do a good job, still.
01:18:51.299 --> 01:18:53.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he only ruled for three years, Jaeheris the second.
01:18:55.606 --> 01:19:07.251
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of left the kingdoms with some some problems, you know, the nobles were upset, but not enough problems that his successor couldn't come in and just kind of very successfully follow him.
01:19:08.652 --> 01:19:10.172
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I don't know.
01:19:10.833 --> 01:19:12.934
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess one of the few who passed the baton well.
01:19:14.154 --> 01:19:18.396
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, they want to pass it like that, because yeah, I don't know if you just send it to
01:19:23.390 --> 01:19:34.098
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like you said, though, it was it was set up for the next person to really take the mantle and keep, how's our gear going, at least for two more kings.
01:19:34.198 --> 01:19:35.399
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:38.021
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are running wicked long here.
01:19:38.081 --> 01:19:42.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try to wrap our last two up in relatively quick fashion.
01:19:42.305 --> 01:19:45.807
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got two more worse to go through.
01:19:45.847 --> 01:19:47.289
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got done all our best.
01:19:48.089 --> 01:19:51.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is your last worst king of West
01:19:52.861 --> 01:19:55.365
[SPEAKER_02]: Egg all the one worthy because he's already put it in the net.
01:19:55.385 --> 01:19:56.827
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
01:19:56.867 --> 01:19:57.248
[SPEAKER_01]: The worst.
01:19:57.448 --> 01:19:57.868
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:19:58.129 --> 01:19:58.990
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a bad guy.
01:19:59.110 --> 01:20:01.574
[SPEAKER_02]: Easily influenced people could manipulate him.
01:20:01.654 --> 01:20:02.395
[SPEAKER_02]: Give him a woman.
01:20:02.455 --> 01:20:04.518
[SPEAKER_02]: He was willing to do to help you.
01:20:04.558 --> 01:20:05.480
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, he could.
01:20:06.621 --> 01:20:07.302
[SPEAKER_02]: Brigham.
01:20:08.484 --> 01:20:10.425
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll throw away dragon eggs.
01:20:10.445 --> 01:20:12.907
[SPEAKER_02]: You do some good for me, like with Butterwell.
01:20:12.927 --> 01:20:14.368
[SPEAKER_02]: Butterwell gave up his three daughters.
01:20:15.229 --> 01:20:17.131
[SPEAKER_02]: Our boy, egg on the unworthy way.
01:20:17.171 --> 01:20:18.031
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's a dragon egg.
01:20:18.051 --> 01:20:18.672
[SPEAKER_02]: You good now.
01:20:18.992 --> 01:20:20.373
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything it works out for him.
01:20:21.114 --> 01:20:25.757
[SPEAKER_02]: And so so many bastards, so many women around.
01:20:26.778 --> 01:20:28.520
[SPEAKER_02]: legitimizing his bastards at the end.
01:20:28.580 --> 01:20:33.624
[SPEAKER_02]: He helped cause rebellions that plague house Targaryens for generations on.
01:20:33.924 --> 01:20:39.428
[SPEAKER_02]: up until the main start of the series, like Barrison the Bold, helped in the last Black Fire Rebellion.
01:20:39.448 --> 01:20:58.820
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how recent they were from Aegon the Unworthy, all because he was just a horrible king treated his wife horrible trying to force and how children when he just, she just really couldn't even more treating his son horrible, trying to spread rumors and he was a bastard and day-round the good.
01:21:01.757 --> 01:21:02.197
[SPEAKER_02]: just bad.
01:21:02.717 --> 01:21:05.459
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the takeaway with that gone the fourth.
01:21:05.499 --> 01:21:10.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of the other worst kings we've talked about are like bad in one specific way.
01:21:10.562 --> 01:21:11.963
[SPEAKER_01]: I got on the fourth.
01:21:12.704 --> 01:21:17.067
[SPEAKER_01]: The book says his his big flaw was he just couldn't resist any vice.
01:21:17.928 --> 01:21:19.270
[SPEAKER_01]: Any vice that came his way.
01:21:19.590 --> 01:21:20.371
[SPEAKER_01]: He needed to do it.
01:21:21.012 --> 01:21:21.833
[SPEAKER_01]: He was charming.
01:21:21.914 --> 01:21:22.975
[SPEAKER_01]: He was skilled at arms.
01:21:23.897 --> 01:21:28.884
[SPEAKER_01]: He had had for politics, but like just prone to doing bad stuff.
01:21:29.405 --> 01:21:33.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, any decision he had the choice to make, he just made a bad one.
01:21:33.791 --> 01:21:40.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and not bad and like, I'm going to destabilize the kingdoms with my stupidity bad and like he knew it was bad and he didn't care.
01:21:40.913 --> 01:21:45.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he just wanted to do the thing that rubbed against the grain always.
01:21:45.955 --> 01:21:50.636
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to sleep with he claimed 900 women during his reign.
01:21:50.856 --> 01:21:57.518
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to father 100 bastards and then legitimize them all and like you said like the bad part of his reign.
01:21:57.598 --> 01:21:59.098
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not even just that his reign was bad.
01:21:59.359 --> 01:22:00.379
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like,
01:22:00.999 --> 01:22:16.287
[SPEAKER_01]: the most rampant corruption probably in the history of the seven kingdoms, the way he just like on a whim, like took things from people, gave it to other people, took wealth he wanted from lords, like did whatever, especially for the people in King's Landing.
01:22:16.307 --> 01:22:22.630
[SPEAKER_01]: For, you know, the lords like in the north, like agon the unworthy kind of probably passed relatively unnoticed.
01:22:23.190 --> 01:22:27.652
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of the stuff he did, but for the people who were like in his sphere, he was really bad.
01:22:28.452 --> 01:22:35.374
[SPEAKER_01]: But he left a legacy of destabilizing the seven kingdoms because of that legitimizing all those bastards.
01:22:35.854 --> 01:22:42.797
[SPEAKER_01]: And like he gave Damon Blackfire, the sword Blackfire gave it away to one of his bastards, the sword of Targaryen kings.
01:22:43.837 --> 01:22:45.638
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a problem.
01:22:46.858 --> 01:22:51.460
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably one of the worst worst kings that has the longest lasting legacy from
01:22:53.504 --> 01:23:12.170
[SPEAKER_02]: even today like we to the golden company is only for because of everything he did in causing his bastards losing the war and going open to themselves and forming that company like certain houses that probably probably don't even exist anymore because of what Egon Egon doesn't worthy had done.
01:23:12.695 --> 01:23:13.375
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
01:23:13.675 --> 01:23:29.800
[SPEAKER_01]: He really did like it, you know, who knows how differently things would have gone for like, egg, and all the other kings that followed agon, if he hadn't done the things he'd done, like he really did just like put a curse on the rest of his bloodline.
01:23:29.880 --> 01:23:31.381
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you said, like barrised in.
01:23:32.121 --> 01:23:37.245
[SPEAKER_01]: killed, you know, the, I think it's made least a mantra, monstrous master.
01:23:37.386 --> 01:23:48.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the last black fire rebellion, like really all the way down to pretty much Game of Thrones, agonsoed, you know, the seeds for discontent and rebellion and stuff.
01:23:48.355 --> 01:23:53.459
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, agon, the unworthy, he deserves the name totally, totally, totally,
01:23:54.440 --> 01:23:55.741
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's speculation too.
01:23:55.761 --> 01:24:07.267
[SPEAKER_01]: I forgot about this till I I brushed up for this show that he might have even poisoned his father with Viserys the second who was a good king That's the Reneuras youngest son, Viserys.
01:24:07.627 --> 01:24:19.813
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the hand to a few kings before him like Darren the good and bailer the blessed and then he was the king for I think like a year two years two years and then I think it was one
01:24:20.073 --> 01:24:31.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, one year and then it's speculated he was poisoned by agon the uncrowned or agon the unworthy too many agons so yeah definitely one of the worst
01:24:32.474 --> 01:24:39.736
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, definitely earned, but I guess, who do you have as the last worst disking of the seven kingdoms?
01:24:40.136 --> 01:24:47.357
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we're running down to the drags here because a lot of, I don't think any of the ones we have left are really terrible.
01:24:47.657 --> 01:24:50.398
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you've really had the, the really awful ones.
01:24:50.578 --> 01:24:57.140
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've had on a few that really botched the job like the Sarah's and Darren, the one I'm going to pick and it's not his fault.
01:24:57.300 --> 01:24:58.280
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be clear about this.
01:24:58.960 --> 01:25:02.842
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't a great king, but it wasn't his fault.
01:25:02.862 --> 01:25:12.447
[SPEAKER_01]: Is Egon the third, Egon the unlucky, as he's known, or the dragon bane, because the last dragons died on his watch.
01:25:13.267 --> 01:25:16.209
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Egon the third is Reneera Targaryen's son.
01:25:16.529 --> 01:25:20.611
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the one who succeeds to the Iron Throne after the dance of the dragons.
01:25:20.991 --> 01:25:25.574
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a long regency where he's essentially a puppet king and he has this hand.
01:25:26.354 --> 01:25:39.079
[SPEAKER_01]: unwin peak who decides he's going to use the position of hands to try to restore glory to his house and he names a bunch of his relatives to a bunch of important jobs and excludes agon at every chance he gets.
01:25:40.899 --> 01:25:42.220
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of reasons why agon
01:25:45.159 --> 01:26:00.238
[SPEAKER_01]: is you know is troubled we can say he's a melancholy king he's called the broken king but ultimately once he takes over the iron throne the big problem with Egon is that he's just not really that interested in
01:26:02.120 --> 01:26:05.421
[SPEAKER_01]: ruling well and connecting with the lords and the small folk.
01:26:05.721 --> 01:26:08.142
[SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of cold and detached.
01:26:09.123 --> 01:26:10.443
[SPEAKER_01]: He tries to do a good job.
01:26:10.503 --> 01:26:16.585
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not that he doesn't, but he's so scarred and traumatized from everything he's gone through.
01:26:16.605 --> 01:26:17.186
[SPEAKER_01]: That
01:26:18.506 --> 01:26:20.087
[SPEAKER_01]: He can't really build bridges.
01:26:20.187 --> 01:26:23.148
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, his brother Vassaris can Vassaris.
01:26:23.168 --> 01:26:25.630
[SPEAKER_01]: So I believe his hand as well for a lot of his reign.
01:26:26.410 --> 01:26:38.256
[SPEAKER_01]: And helps his kids rule Darren and Baylor, but Agon's just too messed up to really fully do the job that was needed after the dance of the dragons.
01:26:38.916 --> 01:26:40.677
[SPEAKER_01]: And I suppose in some ways he did, right?
01:26:40.697 --> 01:26:42.718
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he did keep the seven kingdoms going.
01:26:42.758 --> 01:26:47.201
[SPEAKER_01]: He did leave some good airs, good and bad airs, you know, with Darren and Baylor.
01:26:48.081 --> 01:26:51.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but really he just went through too much.
01:26:51.702 --> 01:27:07.288
[SPEAKER_01]: He watched his mom get eaten by a dragon, just couldn't fully restore house Targaryen to its glory, but I mean, he did an okay job, but his big, his big flaw was just not fully engaging because he was just too broken.
01:27:08.621 --> 01:27:13.105
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, war changes people for better or worse, even the ones that don't fight.
01:27:13.165 --> 01:27:19.250
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, especially for him, he was so close to the war to the fighting for what he's had to see and view.
01:27:19.370 --> 01:27:36.404
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to watch your mother get eaten by a dragon, and you're not going to be the same after that, trying to navigate people rolling through you, not trusting you to do anything, even when you're trying to do your best, pushing you to the side as unwind peak did.
01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:44.084
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a more of an unfortunate rain because it's like like what could have happened, what could he have been?
01:27:44.204 --> 01:27:46.485
[SPEAKER_02]: Could he have been a decent king as one of those things you'll never know?
01:27:46.505 --> 01:27:52.510
[SPEAKER_02]: It's more of a worse king like just a sad, sad king, sad rule.
01:27:52.952 --> 01:28:18.879
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, yeah, it is, that's the case for some of these and it's definitely as for him like if he didn't inherit the dance of the dragons word which looks like at the end of it, it's like him and his brother Viserys are and Bala and Reina Targaryen are basically like the only Targaryens left like there's not a lot of there as few Targaryens as there are dragons just about and yeah, he just.
01:28:20.285 --> 01:28:24.590
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he just weathered thing after thing after thing after thing and
01:28:26.829 --> 01:28:30.890
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just made it hard for him to really fully care.
01:28:31.210 --> 01:28:39.713
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, not that he didn't care, but to be able to connect with his people, both high-born and low-born, just kind of kept everybody at a distance.
01:28:40.553 --> 01:28:44.494
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all he could do really after everything he'd endured.
01:28:44.554 --> 01:28:53.957
[SPEAKER_01]: So fortunately, the realm did have the Sarah's to kind of guide his brothers children after he passed away and keep the lineage going after they passed away.
01:28:55.897 --> 01:28:57.098
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the broken.
01:28:57.878 --> 01:29:01.979
[SPEAKER_01]: He is, I think, one of the worst through almost no fault of his own.
01:29:02.860 --> 01:29:04.640
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where I'll believe that.
01:29:06.401 --> 01:29:06.621
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:29:06.661 --> 01:29:06.841
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:29:06.881 --> 01:29:11.263
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we had some good best in worse Targaryens.
01:29:11.963 --> 01:29:14.784
[SPEAKER_02]: About to say, please, anybody that's watching, please go to the comments.
01:29:15.204 --> 01:29:21.767
[SPEAKER_02]: Let us know where we were right, where we were wrong and give your own list on who do you think some of the best in worse Targaryens
01:29:22.227 --> 01:29:22.928
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
01:29:23.048 --> 01:29:25.070
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have hot takes on these, we want to hear them.
01:29:25.210 --> 01:29:32.176
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to tell us why our hot takes made you furious or you agree with them, let us know in the comments.
01:29:32.517 --> 01:29:37.581
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find take the black on all your usual podcast platforms, like, subscribe.
01:29:37.902 --> 01:29:38.622
[SPEAKER_01]: Come back next week.
01:29:38.642 --> 01:29:40.985
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about more Westeros stuff.
01:29:41.185 --> 01:29:43.407
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure more fantasy and sci-fi stuff.
01:29:44.027 --> 01:29:53.530
[SPEAKER_01]: If you enjoyed this, you can read articles in this vein on winter is coming dot net every day and Mark work in the people find you outside of this podcast.
01:29:54.511 --> 01:30:06.275
[SPEAKER_02]: People want to find me go over to that fun app we call TikTok if you look up house underscore of underscore nettles house of nettles you see the space you're in the right place also on Instagram in YouTube as well.
01:30:06.915 --> 01:30:10.337
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening.
01:30:10.477 --> 01:30:11.678
[SPEAKER_01]: We've gone so long on this.
01:30:11.758 --> 01:30:13.239
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you had as much fun as we did.
01:30:13.819 --> 01:30:16.661
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, until next time, we'll see you in Westeros.
01:30:19.543 --> 01:30:22.425
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01:30:22.465 --> 01:30:28.569
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