Andrew Yang vs 20 AI Optimists | Surrounded

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Americans' data is being sold and resold commercially for $300
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billion plus a year and no one sees a dime.
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But I just told the AI chatbot like,
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hey man,
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get me a person or I'm gonna kill myself.
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I think it's so dramatic.
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I did not use AI to prepare for this and that wasn't deliberate.
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I've written two books on this topic.
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I just like reread my own books.
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People have different viewpoint and different sentiment and
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they're actually feeling very optimistic of the future
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because of artificial intelligence.
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One third
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of working age Americans.
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Men is no longer in the workforce.
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Hey,
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what's up guys?
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Will AI democratize opportunity
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or accelerate inequality beyond anything we've seen before?
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I'm Paris Rose from Jubilee Media,
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and this is Surrounded,
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where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers.
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Today we're exploring how AI is reshaping the workforce,
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whether universal basic income is necessary
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in an AI driven economy,
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and what.
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Happens to human dignity when the market values productivity and profit
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above all else.
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I'm here with our featured guest,
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entrepreneur,
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bestselling author,
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and CEO
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Andrew Yang.
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I'm so happy to see you.
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How are you feeling today?
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I'm feeling great.
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Uh,
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it's awesome to be surrounded.
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Uh,
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I'm sure we're gonna have a wonderful discussion.
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All right,
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debaters,
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are you guys ready?
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Hi,
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I'm Andrew Yang,
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serial entrepreneur,
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co-founder of the Forward Party,
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and CEO of Noble Mobile.
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And today I'm surrounded by AI optimists.
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My first surrounded claim is AI will not democratize opportunity,
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it will accelerate inequality on a scale we have never seen before.
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If you'd like to be the first debater,
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please get to the chair in 321.
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Wow,
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very nice to meet you.
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Oh,
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it's nice to meet you as well.
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Well,
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thank you.
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My name is Christina.
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Um,
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I've been in the AI safety space for about 3 years now.
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Um,
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I got my master's in public policy from Carnegie Mellon.
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Fantastic.
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Where do you live?
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I live in Westwood.
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Cool.
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I can open with this is the way I see
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the situation
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is that you have.
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Capital,
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AI,
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data,
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and processing power and all four of these elements are now converging.
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In a multi-trillion dollar vortex that's going to hoover up
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tons and tons of value
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that's going to come from a lot of
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uh
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office parks,
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corporations,
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businesses,
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big and small.
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So the value is gonna head up,
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uh,
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and they're gonna be some winners for sure.
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Those winners are gonna be
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the
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shareholders and employees of the AI firms,
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the investors,
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folks who actually have enough capital to be in.
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Positions where they benefit from these efficiencies,
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but this number of people is going to be relatively small in the scheme of things
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compared to the folks that are going to be left wondering
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what happened to their call center job,
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what happened to their Uber
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job,
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etc.
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etc.
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I think it's a lot more complicated than that.
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I think there are two things that are happening simultaneously.
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I think that AI is democratizing
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um capability and opportunity for consumers.
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So for example,
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like,
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There are so many different things that we can do with AI now.
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Like you can start your own business.
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If you haven't programmed before,
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you can build an app,
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you can build a website,
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and I use AI as a tutor,
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as a therapist,
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and there's so many things that you can do with it.
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So it is democratizing opportunity.
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But on the other hand,
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um,
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I do think it is concentrating power
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very,
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very
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heavily and on an unprecedented level.
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I think those two things can happen simultaneously.
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Interesting.
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So you actually will concede on the power side,
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um,
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but you think the economic opportunity will actually be broadly
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distributed.
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So first I want to say that AI will
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of course create myriad new jobs and opportunities,
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um,
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and certain individuals are going to benefit.
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I just think that the individuals that benefit are going to be vastly outnumbered
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by the by the people
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that are on the outside.
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Uh,
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looking in,
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and the example I would use,
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um,
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would be a lot of the,
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uh,
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technological innovations of the past.
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I mean,
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like,
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if you look at something
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like e-commerce,
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where there was a point when we were all like,
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hey,
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we're all gonna sell
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our stuff,
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whatever it is,
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and I can't sew.
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But,
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you know,
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you'd like sell something.
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And then you fast forward
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and uh Amazon's a $3 trillion company,
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like trying to compete with them is is kind
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of silly because you have like a winner take all
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um uh dynamic that happened with e-commerce,
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and I think that the same is going to be true
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with AI that if I spun off,
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let's say I were to vibe code an app
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and then put it out on the App Store,
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there's nothing stopping me from doing that,
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and AI is gonna make that easier.
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But the odds of millions of people finding my app very,
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very low,
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they're going to be a couple of outlier winners where that does happen to them.
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But,
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but you're gonna have an explosion of apps that no one really sees or appreciates.
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Right?
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So I pause,
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we're gonna pause here.
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You've been voted out by the majority.
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Please return to your
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seat.
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Such a pleasure.
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Thank you.
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If you'd like to be the next debater,
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please get to the chair in 321.
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Oh hey there Andrew
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Drago
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holy crap like a Rocky,
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yeah,
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yeah,
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no,
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Ivan Drago
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love that character
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love that movie.
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Well,
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I,
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I,
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I appreciate it,
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you know,
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before I ask you your definition of inequality,
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I wanna look at how our country was founded by the small business spirit
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where we left
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the grips of bigger structures to carve out our own way,
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go after our.
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Own land
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and in the last 100 years the corporatization of America
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has
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flattened the distributions now we have the on the low end we have the earners
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and we have the corporations those who to do that so we have inequality today
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I think with AI
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we're pushing some of that lower end
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back creating a renaissance for small businesses
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because the output gap
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and the effort required to achieve an expert level output.
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Lets the small businesses compete with some of the bigger entities.
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I'm an entrepreneur.
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I can do something with a team of 5,
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get a team of 100.
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Tell me more about yourself and your work and what kind of work you do.
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So I have a spiritual growth app that,
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you know,
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facilitates it's direct to consumer play.
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What?
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Yeah,
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using AI
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way because I think we really need spiritual growth.
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I appreciate.
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I think that's,
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I don't know if we're allowed to do this,
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but what's it called?
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Holy habits.
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Holy habits.
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Yeah,
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yeah.
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So let's go.
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Do you have a spiritual background yourself?
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I'm a Catholic,
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so that that's the tradition I have.
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Yeah,
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man.
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So
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first,
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it seems like we agree on,
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uh,
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two things that are very important.
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So number one,
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the American economy is vastly unequal today.
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You know,
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the top.
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10% of Americans,
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uh,
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uh,
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control about 67% of the wealth and 90% of the stock market
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holdings.
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So you start with a very,
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very unequal,
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um,
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you know,
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playing field right now.
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So we agree on that.
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Number 2,
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I also love the spirit of small business.
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Love it.
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I came up as
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a serial entrepreneur.
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The
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owner of a
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private company,
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and I still look back incredibly
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fondly on that time because everything made sense.
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It's like you do the right thing for your business and it actually
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grows and give people jobs.
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Yeah,
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like you have 5 people.
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I will even agree with you that there are
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going to be myriad small businesses that wind up
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succeeding in part because of AI.
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I think though that the primary beneficiaries are going to be
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the holders of the data sets and the major models um that have now
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$1 trillion valuations
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have
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benefited from
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hundreds of billions of dollars
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in data infrastructure and that even as you're building holy habits,
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you probably have to license
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data
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from one of the major providers
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and then pay them.
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So,
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and I'm not gonna make the open source argument even though it.
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Can be made.
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Let's say I accept that anthropic open AI are gonna
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find they're gonna go farther ahead,
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fair enough,
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but all the other
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00:07:51.730 --> 00:07:54.040
Fortune 500 companies that aren't AI companies,
290
00:07:54.130 --> 00:07:56.570
they can be completely displaced by the up and coming
291
00:07:56.810 --> 00:08:00.140
middle tier as people realize that they can solve what they're doing
292
00:08:00.290 --> 00:08:01.560
at a fraction of the effort.
293
00:08:01.690 --> 00:08:01.760
Yeah,
294
00:08:01.890 --> 00:08:02.070
you know,
295
00:08:02.090 --> 00:08:03.230
I'm really enjoying this conversation,
296
00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:03.790
Jago.
297
00:08:03.890 --> 00:08:07.690
So on board with the fact that a lot of major Fortune 500 companies
298
00:08:07.970 --> 00:08:08.680
are going to,
299
00:08:08.850 --> 00:08:08.920
uh,
300
00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:09.960
get lighter weight.
301
00:08:10.090 --> 00:08:11.840
They're going to eliminate a lot of workers.
302
00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:14.190
It's gonna be very sad for a lot of people and that
303
00:08:14.190 --> 00:08:17.000
various upstart insurgents are going to be able to compete with them.
304
00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:17.700
I
305
00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:19.180
do believe though
306
00:08:19.440 --> 00:08:23.140
that the major beneficiaries of the AI revolution
307
00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.740
are going to be the folks that already have
308
00:08:25.940 --> 00:08:27.070
massive brands,
309
00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:27.960
rents,
310
00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:29.100
capital structures,
311
00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:29.910
and the rest of it.
312
00:08:29.960 --> 00:08:31.030
So if you were to take,
313
00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:31.200
uh,
314
00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:31.510
you know,
315
00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:31.710
as,
316
00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:32.590
as an example,
317
00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:33.490
Verizon.
318
00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:35.940
So Verizon has the spectrum,
319
00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:36.230
like,
320
00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:36.630
I don't,
321
00:08:36.909 --> 00:08:38.880
don't even say,
322
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:39.309
don't.
323
00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:41.710
No,
324
00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:41.890
no,
325
00:08:41.980 --> 00:08:42.049
no,
326
00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:43.010
it's like an anti-plug,
327
00:08:43.059 --> 00:08:44.080
at least it's trying to be
328
00:08:44.330 --> 00:08:44.730
because they're,
329
00:08:44.780 --> 00:08:48.200
they're paying 11 billion a year in dividends,
330
00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:49.080
and
331
00:08:49.220 --> 00:08:49.760
they
332
00:08:49.900 --> 00:08:51.000
just laid off
333
00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:53.130
15,000 workers,
334
00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:53.300
uh,
335
00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.560
relatively recently and announced
336
00:08:55.820 --> 00:08:56.240
that
337
00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:57.260
according to them,
338
00:08:57.420 --> 00:09:00.050
AI can do customer service better than a human,
339
00:09:00.220 --> 00:09:03.070
which I think I think we all know what that's going to mean for Verizon
340
00:09:03.540 --> 00:09:04.060
employees.
341
00:09:04.230 --> 00:09:06.260
So my argument is that Verizon is going to
342
00:09:06.260 --> 00:09:09.170
be in a position to benefit from these AI efficiencies
343
00:09:09.390 --> 00:09:10.970
to a higher degree
344
00:09:11.230 --> 00:09:14.220
than like even like a successful upstart.
345
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:14.390
Well,
346
00:09:14.670 --> 00:09:16.480
certain provinces pause here.
347
00:09:16.710 --> 00:09:17.860
You've been voted out by the majority.
348
00:09:17.950 --> 00:09:18.340
Thank you so much.
349
00:09:18.430 --> 00:09:18.660
Drago,
350
00:09:18.710 --> 00:09:19.390
it's a real pleasure.
351
00:09:19.550 --> 00:09:20.410
That's really smart.
352
00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:21.420
Holy habits.
353
00:09:21.950 --> 00:09:22.970
Holy habits,
354
00:09:23.130 --> 00:09:24.690
we could all use them.
355
00:09:24.790 --> 00:09:24.940
Yeah,
356
00:09:25.070 --> 00:09:25.740
amen.
357
00:09:27.020 --> 00:09:29.110
321.
358
00:09:31.250 --> 00:09:31.680
Hey there.
359
00:09:31.810 --> 00:09:32.080
Hi,
360
00:09:32.250 --> 00:09:33.440
I'm Essie Magic.
361
00:09:33.570 --> 00:09:33.760
Hey,
362
00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:34.280
Essie,
363
00:09:34.370 --> 00:09:35.680
is your last name Magic?
364
00:09:35.810 --> 00:09:35.880
No,
365
00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:36.660
it's my nickname.
366
00:09:36.770 --> 00:09:36.880
Oh,
367
00:09:36.970 --> 00:09:37.960
it's still cool as heck.
368
00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:39.940
So I'm a small business owner.
369
00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:40.170
Oh,
370
00:09:40.250 --> 00:09:40.960
what kind of small business?
371
00:09:41.050 --> 00:09:41.120
Yeah,
372
00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:44.760
I have a jewelry brand that's an all empowering jewelry for women.
373
00:09:44.970 --> 00:09:45.530
What's it called?
374
00:09:45.650 --> 00:09:46.980
It's called Zam Jewelry,
375
00:09:47.460 --> 00:09:47.920
Z A M
376
00:09:48.160 --> 00:09:49.110
Z AM jewelry.
377
00:09:49.210 --> 00:09:51.910
So I'm gonna build on what the gentleman before said
378
00:09:51.910 --> 00:09:54.980
because there is actually data that shows that since,
379
00:09:55.050 --> 00:09:55.450
uh,
380
00:09:55.580 --> 00:09:57.880
Chat GBT was launched in 2022.
381
00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.080
We've seen an influx of business registrations,
382
00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:01.770
um,
383
00:10:01.810 --> 00:10:04.520
along with websites like uh Product Hunt as well.
384
00:10:04.540 --> 00:10:06.770
We've seen a lot more registrations,
385
00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:07.130
uh,
386
00:10:07.220 --> 00:10:07.490
or sorry,
387
00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:09.290
product launches on that site,
388
00:10:09.420 --> 00:10:09.530
uh,
389
00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:11.250
especially for solo entrepreneurs.
390
00:10:11.300 --> 00:10:11.590
So
391
00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:16.740
we are actually seeing data that shows that entrepreneurship is growing.
392
00:10:16.900 --> 00:10:20.920
It shows that more people have access from AI as opposed to
393
00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:21.980
not having
394
00:10:22.420 --> 00:10:22.890
access
395
00:10:23.060 --> 00:10:25.710
and whether it be things like education as Well,
396
00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.350
we have a lot more access to things we would have to pay for.
397
00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:28.820
If you
398
00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:30.070
wanted to get legal advice,
399
00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:31.040
you would have to
400
00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.140
spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer or,
401
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:34.630
you know,
402
00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:35.750
accounting advice,
403
00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:36.590
tax advice.
404
00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:38.330
You can now go on
405
00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:40.910
Cloud or chat GBT and get help.
406
00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:41.260
So
407
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.340
it's creating more access for people because
408
00:10:44.560 --> 00:10:46.860
of the financial cost that it's eliminated.
409
00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:47.070
Like,
410
00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:47.480
first,
411
00:10:47.650 --> 00:10:48.160
love it,
412
00:10:48.380 --> 00:10:49.360
love what
413
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.380
you do
414
00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:51.630
and the fact that,
415
00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:52.030
I mean,
416
00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:52.510
I'm a small.
417
00:10:52.630 --> 00:10:53.300
Business owner
418
00:10:53.660 --> 00:10:54.180
myself,
419
00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:54.650
um,
420
00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:56.700
and agree with you that as
421
00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:59.560
the head of a small business you can save money
422
00:10:59.660 --> 00:11:00.760
on accounting,
423
00:11:01.180 --> 00:11:01.810
legal,
424
00:11:02.050 --> 00:11:02.810
marketing,
425
00:11:03.060 --> 00:11:03.340
um,
426
00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:06.100
human resources like a lot of that stuff's now subscription.
427
00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:09.840
The first thing I want to point out is that all of those things used to be
428
00:11:10.090 --> 00:11:13.800
something you would either hire a person for or a firm for and so
429
00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:15.060
you're not having to do that,
430
00:11:15.160 --> 00:11:15.980
which is good for you,
431
00:11:16.140 --> 00:11:18.840
but it's also a negative for
432
00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:19.710
the.
433
00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:20.280
You know,
434
00:11:20.490 --> 00:11:21.320
accounting firm you were,
435
00:11:21.370 --> 00:11:23.790
you would have hired in a past era or
436
00:11:24.010 --> 00:11:24.840
like the small bit,
437
00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:25.380
you know what I mean?
438
00:11:25.410 --> 00:11:26.280
So it's like zero sum.
439
00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:26.500
What,
440
00:11:26.570 --> 00:11:29.290
what's happening is you've extracted value and it's helping you,
441
00:11:29.410 --> 00:11:30.040
but it's gonna,
442
00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:30.520
you know,
443
00:11:30.650 --> 00:11:34.510
be less money for like the um lawyer you would have paid otherwise.
444
00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:35.630
The second thing
445
00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:36.510
is that
446
00:11:36.610 --> 00:11:39.150
as you try and grow,
447
00:11:39.370 --> 00:11:41.180
you're gonna be able to do it with fewer people.
448
00:11:41.410 --> 00:11:44.370
And I can say this from experience where my company
449
00:11:44.690 --> 00:11:46.830
uh took down a job posting for
450
00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:49.700
a junior engineer and a junior data analyst because
451
00:11:49.850 --> 00:11:52.200
I made them less necessary and less relevant.
452
00:11:52.260 --> 00:11:54.390
So it's going to be good for me
453
00:11:54.610 --> 00:11:56.830
in terms of growing the business,
454
00:11:57.010 --> 00:11:58.960
but it's going to be bad for the people that I
455
00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.950
otherwise would have had to hire who like otherwise would have had
456
00:12:03.410 --> 00:12:06.200
the ability to benefit from the opportunities that I'm creating.
457
00:12:06.290 --> 00:12:06.810
So what I,
458
00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:08.280
so what I'm suggesting,
459
00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:10.120
both of these things can be true where
460
00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:12.470
you can help a small business become competitive,
461
00:12:12.730 --> 00:12:15.590
but that's not necessarily going to mean like broader
462
00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:17.390
opportunity for
463
00:12:17.570 --> 00:12:18.760
like different groups of people.
464
00:12:18.850 --> 00:12:19.280
I'm gonna.
465
00:12:19.690 --> 00:12:21.860
Disagree on your first point because
466
00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:24.370
it was mainly the people who had high income
467
00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:26.470
that could afford those services in the first place.
468
00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:28.370
Lower income people could not afford
469
00:12:28.520 --> 00:12:30.560
to pay for a lawyer for tax help
470
00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:32.350
to get a certificate from.
471
00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:33.350
They couldn't afford it.
472
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.100
So it's bridging the gap of the average Joe,
473
00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:37.240
the average Joe
474
00:12:37.430 --> 00:12:39.550
that now they're that wealth gap that we see
475
00:12:39.550 --> 00:12:42.260
is closing because they have access to these things
476
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:43.710
that they can use to grow their career,
477
00:12:43.880 --> 00:12:45.440
not just entrepreneurship too,
478
00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:47.350
because even if you have a job.
479
00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:49.420
You shouldn't be having just one stream of
480
00:12:49.420 --> 00:12:51.420
income if you're depending on just one company
481
00:12:52.020 --> 00:12:53.020
for your income,
482
00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:53.500
you know,
483
00:12:53.670 --> 00:12:54.900
they can lay you off like that.
484
00:12:55.040 --> 00:12:57.980
So that's not smart for multiple streams of income.
485
00:12:58.030 --> 00:12:59.090
It can even help you
486
00:12:59.310 --> 00:13:00.380
start side businesses,
487
00:13:00.550 --> 00:13:01.410
side hustles,
488
00:13:01.950 --> 00:13:03.260
invest as well.
489
00:13:03.390 --> 00:13:03.730
So I,
490
00:13:03.870 --> 00:13:06.100
I disagree on your first point there.
491
00:13:06.270 --> 00:13:06.500
All right,
492
00:13:06.630 --> 00:13:06.700
I,
493
00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:08.780
I just want to say on the data side,
494
00:13:08.910 --> 00:13:09.230
which you,
495
00:13:09.310 --> 00:13:10.420
you cited coming in,
496
00:13:10.550 --> 00:13:12.610
I too have seen that there's a surge
497
00:13:12.790 --> 00:13:13.370
of
498
00:13:13.550 --> 00:13:15.180
uh business in corporation.
499
00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:15.770
Um,
500
00:13:15.930 --> 00:13:19.010
happening right now and that I agree that AI may be a part of that.
501
00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:20.370
And so sometimes people ask me,
502
00:13:20.420 --> 00:13:20.690
it's like,
503
00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:21.040
hey,
504
00:13:21.420 --> 00:13:21.660
Andrew,
505
00:13:21.780 --> 00:13:22.610
like you love entrepreneurship,
506
00:13:22.660 --> 00:13:23.180
I do.
507
00:13:23.380 --> 00:13:25.770
So why could you be sad if this is happening?
508
00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:26.100
And I,
509
00:13:26.180 --> 00:13:27.430
I think there are two things.
510
00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:28.330
Number one,
511
00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:32.170
there are a lot of people who are losing their jobs at tech firms,
512
00:13:32.300 --> 00:13:32.450
uh,
513
00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:33.690
and other places,
514
00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:34.360
and you know,
515
00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:36.000
that one of the first things they do is they,
516
00:13:36.060 --> 00:13:36.910
they set up like,
517
00:13:37.180 --> 00:13:37.810
essentially,
518
00:13:38.020 --> 00:13:38.250
like,
519
00:13:38.420 --> 00:13:38.810
you know,
520
00:13:39.020 --> 00:13:39.290
um,
521
00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:39.920
Jane,
522
00:13:40.180 --> 00:13:40.290
uh,
523
00:13:40.420 --> 00:13:42.120
Jane Smith or John Doe Consulting.
524
00:13:42.180 --> 00:13:43.400
And so it shows up as like,
525
00:13:43.540 --> 00:13:43.650
uh,
526
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:43.890
hey,
527
00:13:43.910 --> 00:13:44.850
a business got started.
528
00:13:45.010 --> 00:13:45.290
To me,
529
00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:46.700
the key data point
530
00:13:46.930 --> 00:13:50.870
is what happens with that business after it gets formed and doesn't have to hire
531
00:13:51.130 --> 00:13:53.490
a full-time employee that's not the founder.
532
00:13:53.730 --> 00:13:56.720
And right now that second step is not being taken by
533
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.200
the vast majority of the small businesses that are being started.
534
00:13:59.290 --> 00:14:00.910
So you're gonna have a lot of businesses that,
535
00:14:00.930 --> 00:14:01.660
to your point,
536
00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:03.910
might be able to generate a little bit of income
537
00:14:04.090 --> 00:14:04.960
for the founder.
538
00:14:05.050 --> 00:14:07.760
They might not be a full-time job even for the founder,
539
00:14:08.010 --> 00:14:10.240
and they're not necessarily going to get to a point where they have to hire someone.
540
00:14:10.330 --> 00:14:12.160
I think the statistics are gonna be like very,
541
00:14:12.270 --> 00:14:12.790
very,
542
00:14:13.050 --> 00:14:13.210
um,
543
00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:14.240
rosy in terms of business.
544
00:14:14.370 --> 00:14:15.400
Business formation,
545
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.660
but like not so great in terms of the way the value gets distributed.
546
00:14:18.920 --> 00:14:20.600
That sounds like you're doubting people
547
00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:21.870
voted up in the majority.
548
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:22.590
Thank you so much.
549
00:14:22.670 --> 00:14:23.950
I'm more of an optimist.
550
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:24.690
And,
551
00:14:24.710 --> 00:14:25.430
and by the way,
552
00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:27.270
I also want to say if you can take a seat
553
00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:28.190
for a second,
554
00:14:28.900 --> 00:14:31.480
small business owners have to be optimists by nature.
555
00:14:31.730 --> 00:14:34.140
Like it's the only way we can do anything.
556
00:14:34.160 --> 00:14:34.750
I'm an optimist.
557
00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:35.900
I don't know if you guys can sense it.
558
00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:36.590
To me,
559
00:14:36.870 --> 00:14:40.800
like the landscape and the numbers and then there's like our attitude,
560
00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:43.670
and we have to wake up every day thinking we can make it happen.
561
00:14:44.060 --> 00:14:44.170
Uh,
562
00:14:44.300 --> 00:14:44.560
you know,
563
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:45.830
like grow the business,
564
00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:46.860
shake up the world,
565
00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:49.040
and I think you can do that while also
566
00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:50.410
having a sense of,
567
00:14:50.540 --> 00:14:50.690
uh,
568
00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:52.320
like the backdrop in the numbers.
569
00:14:53.550 --> 00:14:54.100
Thank you.
570
00:14:54.270 --> 00:14:54.460
Thank you,
571
00:14:54.550 --> 00:14:54.730
Essie.
572
00:14:54.830 --> 00:14:55.530
I really appreciate it.
573
00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:56.060
All right,
574
00:14:56.150 --> 00:14:57.660
if you'd like to be the next debater,
575
00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:01.280
please get to the chair in 321.
576
00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:04.130
Oh hey there.
577
00:15:04.290 --> 00:15:04.360
Hi,
578
00:15:04.380 --> 00:15:04.850
I'm Val.
579
00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:05.530
Nice to meet you,
580
00:15:05.550 --> 00:15:06.000
Val.
581
00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:06.730
Andrew,
582
00:15:06.780 --> 00:15:07.240
how are you?
583
00:15:07.380 --> 00:15:07.970
I'm good.
584
00:15:08.180 --> 00:15:10.850
I'd like to go back to the original statement,
585
00:15:10.900 --> 00:15:14.880
and I do think that AI will completely democratize intellectual
586
00:15:15.010 --> 00:15:15.930
um ideas,
587
00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:16.440
so.
588
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.450
Previously,
589
00:15:17.710 --> 00:15:17.950
um,
590
00:15:18.110 --> 00:15:18.570
legal
591
00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:20.580
advice like health advice,
592
00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:21.450
as well as like
593
00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.780
having a tutor in your pocket wasn't previously possible.
594
00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:29.280
And now I think it's really easy for anyone who has access to like
595
00:15:29.410 --> 00:15:32.970
even the basic AI models and an internet connection
596
00:15:33.170 --> 00:15:34.430
to be able to
597
00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:35.840
use that new
598
00:15:36.050 --> 00:15:38.610
intellect and it's like going to help elevate everyone
599
00:15:38.730 --> 00:15:39.210
as a whole.
600
00:15:39.290 --> 00:15:39.410
Um,
601
00:15:39.610 --> 00:15:39.680
first,
602
00:15:39.770 --> 00:15:40.810
can you tell me a little bit about yourself,
603
00:15:40.890 --> 00:15:41.020
Al?
604
00:15:41.170 --> 00:15:44.790
I'm a beauty and makeup and fashion content creator.
605
00:15:44.890 --> 00:15:45.040
Wow,
606
00:15:45.210 --> 00:15:45.910
so cool.
607
00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:49.710
I'm with you that we all can get expert advice now via AI
608
00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:50.270
and
609
00:15:50.550 --> 00:15:51.840
Makes a lot of us an expert
610
00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:52.860
at various things.
611
00:15:52.950 --> 00:15:57.210
And I also think that's going to be helpful to certain entrepreneurs like yourself.
612
00:15:57.430 --> 00:15:58.580
Two things I want to express.
613
00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:02.280
Number one is that I'm old enough where I remember the time before Waze,
614
00:16:02.510 --> 00:16:04.670
and I had something called a sense of direction.
615
00:16:04.790 --> 00:16:05.740
I don't know if you guys
616
00:16:06.150 --> 00:16:06.850
know what this is.
617
00:16:07.030 --> 00:16:09.020
So you used to bust out a map and then be like,
618
00:16:09.110 --> 00:16:09.360
OK,
619
00:16:09.550 --> 00:16:09.900
like you,
620
00:16:09.950 --> 00:16:11.690
you go down this road and then this.
621
00:16:11.910 --> 00:16:14.100
Obviously none of that exists anymore because of Waze.
622
00:16:14.190 --> 00:16:15.690
What we've done is we've outsourced.
623
00:16:15.970 --> 00:16:17.150
That part of our thinking,
624
00:16:17.650 --> 00:16:17.810
um,
625
00:16:17.930 --> 00:16:18.830
to the apps.
626
00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:23.390
There's some early evidence that right now we're starting to outsource part of,
627
00:16:23.410 --> 00:16:23.610
uh,
628
00:16:23.730 --> 00:16:24.270
our
629
00:16:24.490 --> 00:16:25.910
structured thinking to AI.
630
00:16:26.010 --> 00:16:28.910
Like young people are having a harder time writing a first draft
631
00:16:29.010 --> 00:16:29.680
as an example.
632
00:16:29.770 --> 00:16:31.550
And I went to Brown University,
633
00:16:31.810 --> 00:16:32.000
uh,
634
00:16:32.130 --> 00:16:35.090
and apparently a majority of economic students recently
635
00:16:36.010 --> 00:16:37.470
their scores
636
00:16:37.690 --> 00:16:41.110
go from a 96% with AI to 48% without.
637
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.600
I feel like that can be also like used,
638
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:44.370
like,
639
00:16:44.550 --> 00:16:45.390
like the calculator,
640
00:16:45.470 --> 00:16:46.300
like back in the day,
641
00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:46.620
people were like,
642
00:16:46.640 --> 00:16:46.700
oh,
643
00:16:46.750 --> 00:16:47.340
with the calculator,
644
00:16:47.390 --> 00:16:48.620
we're not going to do math anymore.
645
00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:49.050
But
646
00:16:49.310 --> 00:16:49.620
clearly,
647
00:16:49.640 --> 00:16:50.930
like the calculator,
648
00:16:51.150 --> 00:16:52.490
the internet has actually
649
00:16:52.630 --> 00:16:54.060
helped us as a society as a whole,
650
00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:55.540
like it will help progress.
651
00:16:56.270 --> 00:16:59.410
So the thing I want to say here is that
652
00:16:59.910 --> 00:17:01.460
I think AI is going to lower barriers,
653
00:17:01.590 --> 00:17:04.300
and I think there are going to be some people that win as a result of that.
654
00:17:04.869 --> 00:17:05.060
Um
655
00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:06.619
simultaneously.
656
00:17:06.810 --> 00:17:07.190
So,
657
00:17:07.410 --> 00:17:07.560
uh,
658
00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:09.920
I think that there are going to be some side
659
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:13.410
effects to the outsourcing of our cognitive processing that we're,
660
00:17:13.530 --> 00:17:13.720
we're,
661
00:17:13.810 --> 00:17:15.950
that's going to impact young people a bit worse than,
662
00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:16.920
than some others,
663
00:17:17.050 --> 00:17:17.280
uh,
664
00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:18.470
that there's,
665
00:17:18.740 --> 00:17:19.160
um,
666
00:17:19.530 --> 00:17:20.430
going to be
667
00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:22.760
like some highly visible winners that we can all point to,
668
00:17:22.849 --> 00:17:25.040
like probably you because you seem awesome and talented.
669
00:17:25.450 --> 00:17:25.599
Um,
670
00:17:25.770 --> 00:17:27.650
but then for every vow,
671
00:17:27.930 --> 00:17:28.160
um,
672
00:17:28.369 --> 00:17:30.110
there are going to be a host of people
673
00:17:30.290 --> 00:17:30.750
that
674
00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:31.860
aren't able to,
675
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:32.170
to.
676
00:17:32.510 --> 00:17:34.620
Breakthrough just like statistically.
677
00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:36.620
Do you have an example of someone
678
00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:38.750
like a case who wouldn't be able to break through?
679
00:17:39.150 --> 00:17:39.210
Oh,
680
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:40.340
so one thing,
681
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:41.450
and it's just recent,
682
00:17:41.870 --> 00:17:46.210
is that I was reading a sub stack piece because I like sub stack and I'm there,
683
00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:48.570
and a sub stack author was complaining that
684
00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:52.490
they've essentially reached like zero sum in terms of paid subscribers,
685
00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:53.340
like people,
686
00:17:53.430 --> 00:17:55.750
and so then it's like if I subscribe to you,
687
00:17:55.790 --> 00:17:57.500
I'm just going to stop subscribing to that person.
688
00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:00.220
So there's something about that to our attention
689
00:18:00.520 --> 00:18:03.670
around different fields where you can't have like a limitless number of
690
00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:07.100
influencers because we only have a certain number of hours in the day
691
00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:08.620
and,
692
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.000
and some of that attention is going to get occupied by AI influencers increasingly.
693
00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:17.300
So if I look at someone like you and like they're going to be some
694
00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:21.140
Human influencers and brands that breakthrough because there always are.
695
00:18:21.320 --> 00:18:22.000
Generally speaking,
696
00:18:22.120 --> 00:18:24.970
there's going to be more and more of like a winner take all dynamic
697
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.540
in the human space,
698
00:18:26.760 --> 00:18:29.590
and AI is going to end up diminishing the human space.
699
00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:31.430
I actually disagree because nowadays,
700
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:31.930
like,
701
00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:33.310
everything is super niche,
702
00:18:33.370 --> 00:18:35.580
like now you can like go on book talk or
703
00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:38.270
go on makeup talk and everything is like very hyper individualized.
704
00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:40.230
There's even niches for like K Beauty and stuff,
705
00:18:40.360 --> 00:18:40.740
which
706
00:18:41.040 --> 00:18:41.310
I,
707
00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:42.270
I'm interested in.
708
00:18:42.870 --> 00:18:43.710
But back in the day,
709
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:45.740
there were only like 3 celebrities that you would know,
710
00:18:45.870 --> 00:18:47.300
like just the most famous actors.
711
00:18:47.350 --> 00:18:49.050
So I actually do think it will help
712
00:18:49.300 --> 00:18:49.850
really
713
00:18:50.110 --> 00:18:52.450
make everything more niche and like
714
00:18:52.710 --> 00:18:53.730
actually democrat
715
00:18:54.030 --> 00:18:55.300
uh democratize everything.
716
00:18:55.430 --> 00:18:55.620
OK,
717
00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:56.420
pause here.
718
00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:57.700
You've been voted out by the majority.
719
00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:57.940
Val,
720
00:18:58.020 --> 00:18:58.740
it's such a pleasure.
721
00:18:59.310 --> 00:19:00.660
If you'd like to be the next debater,
722
00:19:00.830 --> 00:19:04.380
please get to the chair in 321.
723
00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:08.380
Hey there.
724
00:19:08.550 --> 00:19:08.740
Hey,
725
00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:09.460
nice to meet you.
726
00:19:09.540 --> 00:19:09.940
What's your name?
727
00:19:10.050 --> 00:19:10.480
Nikil.
728
00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:11.020
Nikil,
729
00:19:11.310 --> 00:19:11.420
uh,
730
00:19:11.510 --> 00:19:11.900
what do you do?
731
00:19:12.030 --> 00:19:12.930
I'm a software engineer.
732
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:13.370
Where at
733
00:19:13.560 --> 00:19:13.980
Facebook.
734
00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:16.060
So I think going back to the original point,
735
00:19:16.110 --> 00:19:17.430
I think AI will
736
00:19:17.670 --> 00:19:18.670
democratize everyone,
737
00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:19.980
and it already has,
738
00:19:20.190 --> 00:19:20.820
and we've seen it.
739
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:21.650
If everyone
740
00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:23.660
uses like anthropic models,
741
00:19:23.990 --> 00:19:24.740
everyone doesn't have to use that.
742
00:19:24.870 --> 00:19:26.600
Anthropic models or open AI models.
743
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:27.440
There's a lot of
744
00:19:27.580 --> 00:19:28.680
open source models.
745
00:19:28.820 --> 00:19:32.340
There's a lot of stuff you can self-host and you control your own data.
746
00:19:32.540 --> 00:19:33.720
You control what you do with them.
747
00:19:33.820 --> 00:19:35.570
We all have phones in our hands.
748
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:37.410
They all can run local models on them.
749
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:38.010
Sure,
750
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:39.680
they might not be the most frontier,
751
00:19:39.860 --> 00:19:40.730
but they work.
752
00:19:40.900 --> 00:19:42.300
Everyone has access to them
753
00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:44.090
and everyone can use them.
754
00:19:44.260 --> 00:19:44.650
Personally,
755
00:19:44.820 --> 00:19:45.770
myself at my home,
756
00:19:45.830 --> 00:19:46.400
I have
757
00:19:46.580 --> 00:19:48.320
a few GPUs that I use to run
758
00:19:48.580 --> 00:19:51.610
a few local models for voice assistant for coding.
759
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:53.710
All kinds of tasks,
760
00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:54.220
etc.
761
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:54.610
Yes,
762
00:19:54.760 --> 00:19:55.820
there are open source
763
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.110
source of information that you don't have to pay the,
764
00:19:58.190 --> 00:19:58.370
the,
765
00:19:58.440 --> 00:19:58.600
the,
766
00:19:58.720 --> 00:19:59.560
the big guys.
767
00:19:59.800 --> 00:19:59.990
Yes,
768
00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:00.460
you can,
769
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:01.020
um,
770
00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:03.990
create your own bot to solve some household task for you.
771
00:20:04.080 --> 00:20:04.350
So I'm,
772
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.170
I'm totally
773
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:06.090
with you on,
774
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:07.180
on those fronts.
775
00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.280
And I'm curious about what you're seeing in your field because from what I've seen,
776
00:20:10.320 --> 00:20:13.550
the wages for entry level coders have gone off a cliff
777
00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:17.770
and the placement rates for computer science graduates have also gone off a cliff.
778
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.300
Where if you look back at like,
779
00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:19.660
uh,
780
00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:20.200
You know,
781
00:20:20.290 --> 00:20:22.230
learned to code like 8 years ago.
782
00:20:22.250 --> 00:20:23.390
It was like fail-safe
783
00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:24.960
or foolproof
784
00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:26.110
career advice,
785
00:20:26.330 --> 00:20:28.040
and now those people are scrambling
786
00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:29.060
where their
787
00:20:29.590 --> 00:20:31.480
job placement rate has inverted,
788
00:20:31.610 --> 00:20:33.120
where if it used to be 88%,
789
00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:33.960
now it's 12%.
790
00:20:34.050 --> 00:20:34.880
So those folks,
791
00:20:35.050 --> 00:20:38.520
like that hard skill now is not commercially valued
792
00:20:39.010 --> 00:20:39.630
the way that it was.
793
00:20:39.650 --> 00:20:40.510
Is that accurate?
794
00:20:40.570 --> 00:20:40.900
I,
795
00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:41.440
sure,
796
00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:43.760
that's what the media says and that's what the public opinion wants.
797
00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:44.310
To think,
798
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.040
but I don't think that's accurate at all.
799
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:46.510
No.
800
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:46.750
Well,
801
00:20:46.840 --> 00:20:47.100
I mean,
802
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.510
the stuff I just said is fairly like objective and documented,
803
00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:50.800
um,
804
00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:51.160
you know,
805
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:52.310
a Stanford study,
806
00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:54.580
various like BLS statistics,
807
00:20:54.830 --> 00:20:56.220
or actually I talked to a
808
00:20:56.520 --> 00:20:58.310
career placement officer at a university and
809
00:20:58.310 --> 00:20:59.710
that's what they told me was happening.
810
00:20:59.780 --> 00:21:01.020
So I don't think they are
811
00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:01.770
fronting.
812
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.260
This is actually to me one of like the big
813
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.190
themes around AI is that
814
00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:07.730
for a lot of the stuff I'm saying.
815
00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:09.800
I totally wish I was wrong.
816
00:21:10.340 --> 00:21:11.610
I do not believe I am wrong.
817
00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:13.880
Like one of the things I do is I try and hunt,
818
00:21:14.100 --> 00:21:14.290
uh,
819
00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:15.600
facts and figures.
820
00:21:15.790 --> 00:21:17.550
And if there's a fact that is like,
821
00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:18.340
you know,
822
00:21:18.620 --> 00:21:19.600
contrary to my
823
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:20.460
point of view,
824
00:21:20.820 --> 00:21:22.330
I'm actually kind of glad.
825
00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:24.660
Because
826
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.670
I think it's gonna get gnarly and nasty and be terrible for a lot of people.
827
00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:29.110
Now,
828
00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.470
a talented engineer like you can 100% use open source models to
829
00:21:32.470 --> 00:21:34.620
like solve some of your problems and save yourself some time.
830
00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:38.650
The thing I will say that is categorically wrong and meta is like,
831
00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:40.150
not to put anything on this,
832
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:41.540
but meta is a culprit in this,
833
00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:44.120
is that we are not being paid for our data at all.
834
00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:47.260
Americans' data is being sold and resold commercially
835
00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:49.760
for $300 billion plus a year and.
836
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:51.030
One sees a dime.
837
00:21:51.110 --> 00:21:51.420
I agree.
838
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:51.890
And you know,
839
00:21:51.910 --> 00:21:54.130
one of the main beneficiaries of that
840
00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:55.250
is meta,
841
00:21:55.780 --> 00:21:57.620
because Meta is one of the main sellers of the data,
842
00:21:57.710 --> 00:21:59.010
the compilers of the data,
843
00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:01.670
they have more access to more of this data than just about anyone else.
844
00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:02.790
And one of the things I said,
845
00:22:03.110 --> 00:22:04.180
data is the new oil,
846
00:22:04.270 --> 00:22:07.650
and Meta is now one of the primary oil geysers.
847
00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:08.730
I believe that
848
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.260
your employer is actually one of the main beneficiaries of this dynamic,
849
00:22:12.350 --> 00:22:14.590
but if you were to just grab an American on the street
850
00:22:14.870 --> 00:22:16.140
in Seattle or in LA and be like,
851
00:22:16.210 --> 00:22:16.690
hey,
852
00:22:17.030 --> 00:22:18.340
have you been paid for your data?
853
00:22:18.670 --> 00:22:19.340
they will say no.
854
00:22:19.790 --> 00:22:21.420
I can definitely see where you're coming from,
855
00:22:21.590 --> 00:22:23.300
and I agree this is a concerning point,
856
00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:26.860
but I would like to know what your solution to this whole data people for their data,
857
00:22:27.070 --> 00:22:28.020
pay people for their data,
858
00:22:28.070 --> 00:22:29.030
pay people for their data.
859
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:30.310
I think that while
860
00:22:30.510 --> 00:22:31.170
that's a
861
00:22:31.350 --> 00:22:32.100
cool problem here,
862
00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:33.500
I'll suggest another solution.
863
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.510
I think that all these big AI companies,
864
00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:37.270
frontier models,
865
00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:40.300
they're all trying to create restrictions on
866
00:22:40.430 --> 00:22:41.830
people that are trying to train new models,
867
00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:42.110
right?
868
00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:44.380
They're trying to like open source models or
869
00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:46.780
trying to train models they're trying to create roadblocks,
870
00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:48.260
restrictions and all that
871
00:22:48.390 --> 00:22:49.420
so instead of
872
00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:51.140
focusing on like something like
873
00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:53.340
reduction the use of AI or
874
00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:54.670
slowing down the technology,
875
00:22:54.760 --> 00:22:57.710
why don't we focus on opening the technology and let more players come in.
876
00:22:58.070 --> 00:22:59.980
Therefore we can have more open source models.
877
00:23:00.050 --> 00:23:01.320
I truly think open source
878
00:23:01.490 --> 00:23:04.040
is the best solution that we have to democratize this.
879
00:23:04.150 --> 00:23:05.220
We've seen this in Linux.
880
00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:06.660
We've seen this with PostGress.
881
00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:08.220
We've seen this with databases and everything.
882
00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:08.580
I mean,
883
00:23:08.790 --> 00:23:11.460
if you and I are arguing about whether some of these
884
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:13.700
models that are proprietary right now should be open source,
885
00:23:13.830 --> 00:23:14.890
very different conversation.
886
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:16.780
I'm not saying the same thing.
887
00:23:16.870 --> 00:23:17.740
I'm not saying the same thing.
888
00:23:17.910 --> 00:23:18.810
What I'm saying is
889
00:23:19.010 --> 00:23:21.370
these models should be
890
00:23:21.620 --> 00:23:22.460
easier to train,
891
00:23:22.550 --> 00:23:24.050
and they should not have,
892
00:23:24.230 --> 00:23:24.470
uh,
893
00:23:24.630 --> 00:23:26.730
the restrictions that anthropic and open AI,
894
00:23:26.910 --> 00:23:27.620
these companies,
895
00:23:27.710 --> 00:23:28.290
frontier companies,
896
00:23:28.430 --> 00:23:29.140
we're gonna lobby
897
00:23:29.390 --> 00:23:29.540
here.
898
00:23:29.630 --> 00:23:30.800
You're out of time for this claim.
899
00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:31.340
Thank you.
900
00:23:31.670 --> 00:23:31.860
Thank you.
901
00:23:31.950 --> 00:23:32.420
Nice to meet you.
902
00:23:32.510 --> 00:23:33.020
Nice to meet you too.
903
00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:33.760
Appreciate it.
904
00:23:34.350 --> 00:23:37.540
My next surrounded claim is AI is going to eliminate
905
00:23:37.540 --> 00:23:40.220
millions of jobs faster than new ones can be created.
906
00:23:40.790 --> 00:23:42.380
If you would like to be the next debater,
907
00:23:42.550 --> 00:23:46.140
please get to that chair in 321.
908
00:23:49.270 --> 00:23:49.900
Oh hey there,
909
00:23:49.950 --> 00:23:50.740
my name's Theo.
910
00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:51.620
Hey Theo,
911
00:23:51.670 --> 00:23:52.020
how are you?
912
00:23:52.150 --> 00:23:52.890
Tell me about yourself.
913
00:23:52.990 --> 00:23:53.040
Yeah,
914
00:23:53.110 --> 00:23:55.660
I'm a co-founder and host of a media startup based out
915
00:23:55.660 --> 00:23:59.180
of San Francisco called MTS stands for Monitoring the Situation,
916
00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:00.970
and we help people understand what's going on
917
00:24:01.030 --> 00:24:03.260
with artificial general intelligence in the future.
918
00:24:03.390 --> 00:24:03.740
Oh wow,
919
00:24:03.830 --> 00:24:04.140
great.
920
00:24:04.310 --> 00:24:05.200
So first,
921
00:24:05.590 --> 00:24:05.860
uh,
922
00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:09.610
about 36% of Americans graduate from college.
923
00:24:09.750 --> 00:24:09.900
Uh,
924
00:24:10.150 --> 00:24:11.570
64% do not.
925
00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:13.820
If you look at the American workforce,
926
00:24:13.990 --> 00:24:16.010
the most common job categories
927
00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:16.920
are.
928
00:24:17.170 --> 00:24:18.550
Clerical and administrative,
929
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:18.830
uh,
930
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:19.470
retail,
931
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:20.980
food service and food prep,
932
00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:22.470
truck driving and transportation,
933
00:24:22.530 --> 00:24:24.950
which includes Uber drivers and manufacturing.
934
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:27.940
Each of those job categories is going to contract
935
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.870
in part because of AI and automation.
936
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.650
This is just my opinion.
937
00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.070
I'm just,
938
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:31.230
uh,
939
00:24:31.360 --> 00:24:31.980
throwing this out,
940
00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:34.110
but a couple of numbers to,
941
00:24:34.280 --> 00:24:34.390
uh,
942
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.620
scaffold the convo.
943
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.590
There are 2.9 million Americans who work in customer service call centers,
944
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:39.830
uh,
945
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:40.530
right now,
946
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.390
and I'm an investor in.
947
00:24:42.770 --> 00:24:43.020
Uh,
948
00:24:43.250 --> 00:24:44.920
an AI call center,
949
00:24:45.290 --> 00:24:45.750
um,
950
00:24:46.010 --> 00:24:46.200
uh,
951
00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:47.040
solution
952
00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:48.190
that is,
953
00:24:48.260 --> 00:24:49.110
in my view,
954
00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:50.230
going to
955
00:24:50.530 --> 00:24:51.840
reduce that number sharply.
956
00:24:51.930 --> 00:24:52.040
Not,
957
00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:53.200
not the company I'm invested in,
958
00:24:53.290 --> 00:24:55.000
but like the category generally.
959
00:24:55.130 --> 00:24:56.270
Customers now
960
00:24:56.450 --> 00:24:57.240
are finding.
961
00:24:57.610 --> 00:24:57.880
Um,
962
00:24:58.090 --> 00:25:01.320
AI bots actually to be fine in terms of the experience.
963
00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:03.640
I don't know if people who are calling in now.
964
00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:04.460
It used to be like,
965
00:25:04.690 --> 00:25:05.270
like operator,
966
00:25:05.290 --> 00:25:05.680
operator,
967
00:25:05.820 --> 00:25:06.000
person,
968
00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:06.360
person,
969
00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:06.760
person,
970
00:25:06.890 --> 00:25:08.730
but like now the bot can address
971
00:25:09.050 --> 00:25:12.370
um 60% of your issues or so and then you don't have to deal with a,
972
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:12.520
a,
973
00:25:12.610 --> 00:25:13.110
a person.
974
00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:13.670
Uh,
975
00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:17.290
2 million Americans drive an Uber for other part-time or full-time,
976
00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:17.740
uh,
977
00:25:17.910 --> 00:25:18.210
jobs,
978
00:25:18.230 --> 00:25:19.950
and some of you here in LA have taken away.
979
00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:23.660
2.5 million Americans work in the insurance industry,
980
00:25:23.790 --> 00:25:27.420
and the insurance industry is largely about passing information back and forth
981
00:25:28.390 --> 00:25:28.980
around systems.
982
00:25:29.070 --> 00:25:30.970
You can imagine AI doing a number on that.
983
00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:33.060
70 million Americans work at,
984
00:25:33.330 --> 00:25:33.490
uh,
985
00:25:33.630 --> 00:25:34.770
white collar jobs.
986
00:25:35.030 --> 00:25:35.180
Um,
987
00:25:35.310 --> 00:25:36.780
and so I think AI is going to,
988
00:25:36.990 --> 00:25:38.050
to crush this number.
989
00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:38.260
Well,
990
00:25:38.350 --> 00:25:40.820
just looking at the past 200 years or so of automation,
991
00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:41.090
you know,
992
00:25:41.110 --> 00:25:42.900
this claim has been made over and over again.
993
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.670
And it doesn't stand because automating jobs is really hard.
994
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:47.030
You know,
995
00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:48.310
jobs are bundles of tasks,
996
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:48.870
right?
997
00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:50.510
And in order to automate a job,
998
00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:52.940
you have to do every single task the human does
999
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.510
on some parade of uh curve of better and cheaper than the human.
1000
00:25:57.040 --> 00:25:57.760
Like every single one.
1001
00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:00.110
If there's one task and a job remaining for humans to do,
1002
00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:01.400
humans are still employable.
1003
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:02.230
All right,
1004
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:02.740
so,
1005
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:03.190
um,
1006
00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:06.150
historical referent number 1 is going to
1007
00:26:06.150 --> 00:26:08.820
be what happened to the manufacturing workers
1008
00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:10.210
in the Midwest and the South,
1009
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:10.550
uh,
1010
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.830
when robot arms came into the factory.
1011
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:14.740
So the number of,
1012
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:15.110
uh,
1013
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.040
workers went down by about 4 million
1014
00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:18.740
and blew to smithereens,
1015
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.670
the regional economies of those towns in Ohio,
1016
00:26:21.810 --> 00:26:22.220
Michigan,
1017
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:22.990
Pennsylvania,
1018
00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:23.830
Wisconsin.
1019
00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:24.430
Uh,
1020
00:26:24.570 --> 00:26:25.360
North Carolina and,
1021
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:25.510
uh,
1022
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:25.740
uh,
1023
00:26:25.800 --> 00:26:26.660
other places,
1024
00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:27.260
the
1025
00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:29.090
fallacy with what you just said
1026
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:29.980
is that
1027
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.120
often in corporations there are 100 people in a department doing a job,
1028
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.330
and if you can reduce
1029
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:39.300
60% of the tasks,
1030
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:40.140
they don't,
1031
00:26:40.280 --> 00:26:43.950
what happens is you fire 60 of the 100 and then the remaining 40,
1032
00:26:43.970 --> 00:26:44.190
you say,
1033
00:26:44.250 --> 00:26:44.660
hey guys,
1034
00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:46.030
like your job's just changed
1035
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.780
where you're now doing the thing
1036
00:26:48.040 --> 00:26:48.270
that,
1037
00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:48.550
uh,
1038
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:49.030
you know.
1039
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:49.990
Only humans can do,
1040
00:26:50.090 --> 00:26:52.360
but then you just systematically reduce that number.
1041
00:26:52.690 --> 00:26:56.470
And that's what's happening in organizations big and small around the country.
1042
00:26:56.810 --> 00:26:57.080
Um,
1043
00:26:57.290 --> 00:26:57.360
well,
1044
00:26:57.450 --> 00:26:59.050
going back to the manufacturing point,
1045
00:26:59.170 --> 00:26:59.510
like,
1046
00:26:59.690 --> 00:27:03.200
it is true that automation can locally displace a lot of workers,
1047
00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:06.910
but the other thing that you see is like huge job growth in other industries.
1048
00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:07.800
Like for example,
1049
00:27:08.050 --> 00:27:08.790
automating
1050
00:27:09.050 --> 00:27:09.880
subsistence farming,
1051
00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:11.250
which almost every human
1052
00:27:11.410 --> 00:27:13.970
for all of history until the industrial revolution used to do.
1053
00:27:14.270 --> 00:27:16.160
Has created a tremendous amount of new industries like
1054
00:27:16.300 --> 00:27:19.680
this whole thing of like Jubilee videos would just not exist if we didn't have like
1055
00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:20.280
a
1056
00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:22.500
huge amount of the tasks that we previously did
1057
00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:23.160
automated.
1058
00:27:23.260 --> 00:27:24.540
There's huge job growth in other industries.
1059
00:27:24.620 --> 00:27:25.370
People move to cities,
1060
00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:25.810
for example.
1061
00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:27.240
So concession that
1062
00:27:27.460 --> 00:27:30.370
only 1% of Americans now working in agriculture and
1063
00:27:30.370 --> 00:27:32.300
that number used to be 40 times higher,
1064
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:33.600
and we can still grow food.
1065
00:27:33.740 --> 00:27:34.870
So that's a fact.
1066
00:27:35.060 --> 00:27:35.770
The thing that I,
1067
00:27:35.860 --> 00:27:39.800
I'm going to suggest is that AI is different than anything that has gone before.
1068
00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:42.190
We've never had thinking machines that can.
1069
00:27:42.780 --> 00:27:44.760
Solve cognitive problems as quickly
1070
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:46.140
as
1071
00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:48.190
it can and faster than any human.
1072
00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:48.810
Um,
1073
00:27:49.010 --> 00:27:50.600
can do PhD level work,
1074
00:27:50.850 --> 00:27:50.900
uh,
1075
00:27:51.050 --> 00:27:52.590
can do billable lawyer work
1076
00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:53.270
in
1077
00:27:53.410 --> 00:27:54.280
seconds or minutes,
1078
00:27:54.410 --> 00:27:55.750
and this is going to affect
1079
00:27:55.970 --> 00:27:57.060
more industries
1080
00:27:57.290 --> 00:27:58.220
more quickly
1081
00:27:58.330 --> 00:27:59.990
than anything we've ever seen before,
1082
00:28:00.290 --> 00:28:01.590
and people are not
1083
00:28:01.690 --> 00:28:04.870
infinitely adjustable as we've seen when there's been a past
1084
00:28:05.050 --> 00:28:05.710
transition.
1085
00:28:05.810 --> 00:28:07.840
Even if you were to rewind to the industrial revolution,
1086
00:28:07.930 --> 00:28:09.800
which people often cite in this conversation,
1087
00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:12.390
which I'm gonna suggest is a bad fact pattern because it's,
1088
00:28:12.610 --> 00:28:12.730
you know,
1089
00:28:12.810 --> 00:28:13.760
200 years ago and,
1090
00:28:13.850 --> 00:28:14.430
and,
1091
00:28:14.450 --> 00:28:14.880
uh,
1092
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:15.760
a different situation,
1093
00:28:15.930 --> 00:28:17.450
even in that situation.
1094
00:28:18.010 --> 00:28:20.790
There were mass riots that killed dozens of people and
1095
00:28:20.790 --> 00:28:23.150
caused the equivalent of $2 billion worth of damage,
1096
00:28:23.290 --> 00:28:25.190
which is why we had something called Labor Day
1097
00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:28.620
that got inaugurated in 1894 in response to the violence.
1098
00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:31.490
And today's economy is much more complex
1099
00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:33.430
with many more people and larger,
1100
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.430
and you have many more educated people who are not going to take getting
1101
00:28:37.610 --> 00:28:39.790
kicked to the curb and pushed down a class
1102
00:28:39.890 --> 00:28:40.320
gently,
1103
00:28:40.450 --> 00:28:41.360
nor will the truckers,
1104
00:28:41.450 --> 00:28:42.750
nor will a lot of other people.
1105
00:28:42.860 --> 00:28:44.760
Even if you were to actually inspect history,
1106
00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:46.880
you would expect very bad things to happen.
1107
00:28:47.280 --> 00:28:47.510
Um,
1108
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:49.100
during this era of displacement.
1109
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:50.380
This happens every.
1110
00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:52.070
You've been voted out by the majority.
1111
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:52.890
Thank you so much.
1112
00:28:52.910 --> 00:28:53.380
Thank you so much.
1113
00:28:53.490 --> 00:28:53.750
Of course,
1114
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:54.550
great seeing you.
1115
00:28:54.930 --> 00:28:55.040
Oh,
1116
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:55.350
thank you,
1117
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.630
brother.
1118
00:28:55.780 --> 00:28:56.590
Appreciate it.
1119
00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:59.160
321.
1120
00:29:01.070 --> 00:29:01.410
Thank you.
1121
00:29:01.550 --> 00:29:01.890
Hello,
1122
00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:02.820
I'm Sophia Du.
1123
00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:04.610
It's such a pleasure to meet you.
1124
00:29:04.860 --> 00:29:05.210
Sophia.
1125
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:06.730
I'm so excited to.
1126
00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:11.010
I'm a media tech host on also a show MTS similar to Theo.
1127
00:29:11.100 --> 00:29:12.320
So we are co-hosts together
1128
00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:13.450
and help people
1129
00:29:13.610 --> 00:29:14.250
understand AI.
1130
00:29:14.370 --> 00:29:16.090
I was like MTS this seems so like,
1131
00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:16.460
I think,
1132
00:29:16.600 --> 00:29:16.780
uh,
1133
00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:17.370
you know,
1134
00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:18.610
I just heard this a minute ago.
1135
00:29:18.780 --> 00:29:19.380
Congratulations.
1136
00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:20.810
You guys have like a good team.
1137
00:29:21.020 --> 00:29:21.290
Thank you.
1138
00:29:21.380 --> 00:29:21.490
No,
1139
00:29:21.580 --> 00:29:23.610
it's a really fun team and I'm really excited.
1140
00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:24.470
To talk to you
1141
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.290
about AI because I am an optimist because
1142
00:29:27.410 --> 00:29:30.710
of all of your fears that you say I definitely agree with a lot of them.
1143
00:29:30.730 --> 00:29:32.190
There are certain things that we should do
1144
00:29:32.290 --> 00:29:34.750
to mitigate all the harms that AI will cause
1145
00:29:34.890 --> 00:29:35.870
and at the same time
1146
00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:37.070
being an optimist
1147
00:29:37.170 --> 00:29:39.960
and understanding what are the positive benefits that come
1148
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.550
out of AI is how we transform through this
1149
00:29:42.690 --> 00:29:43.990
difficult period of time.
1150
00:29:44.010 --> 00:29:44.510
And so
1151
00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:46.320
what I wanna do is encourage more people to.
1152
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.710
Understand the benefits that happen and for specifically with the job loss claim,
1153
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.560
most people think,
1154
00:29:51.610 --> 00:29:51.870
OK,
1155
00:29:52.010 --> 00:29:55.470
one day it's just robots are gonna come in and all the jobs are going to leave,
1156
00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:58.970
but really what actually ends up happening is it's a slow transition where
1157
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.860
AI gets introduced and then the jobs transform and re-augment and specifically
1158
00:30:03.860 --> 00:30:06.940
they re-augment in ways where the human has to do more human
1159
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:08.950
type of work like radiology.
1160
00:30:09.370 --> 00:30:11.550
AA got introduced and everyone thought that would ban
1161
00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:14.650
and get rid of all the radiologists and there's still radiology.
1162
00:30:14.690 --> 00:30:15.880
There's more demand for radiology,
1163
00:30:15.930 --> 00:30:17.790
but the job of a radiologist now
1164
00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:18.880
is way more human.
1165
00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:20.770
They care way more about patient care
1166
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:22.630
and things that they could uniquely do
1167
00:30:22.770 --> 00:30:24.960
and all that brunt work and that task that they didn't want,
1168
00:30:25.050 --> 00:30:25.830
didn't want to do
1169
00:30:25.930 --> 00:30:28.130
is now getting automated away to AI.
1170
00:30:28.250 --> 00:30:29.790
But I don't think this is necessarily
1171
00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:30.560
super negative,
1172
00:30:30.650 --> 00:30:33.120
and I agree that we should reduce the harms as much.
1173
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.620
As we possibly can with policy with decisions.
1174
00:30:35.710 --> 00:30:36.740
I study a lot of what that,
1175
00:30:36.790 --> 00:30:38.070
what you do and what you believe in,
1176
00:30:38.110 --> 00:30:41.560
and I align with so much of it and I love your policy work
1177
00:30:41.670 --> 00:30:43.170
and I want to see your policy work
1178
00:30:43.370 --> 00:30:46.590
be a highlight of this next decade that we get into.
1179
00:30:46.710 --> 00:30:46.740
Oh,
1180
00:30:46.870 --> 00:30:47.100
thank you.
1181
00:30:47.190 --> 00:30:48.060
That's just so kind.
1182
00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:48.280
I,
1183
00:30:48.350 --> 00:30:49.220
I really appreciate it.
1184
00:30:49.310 --> 00:30:49.730
All right,
1185
00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:54.290
so what you're describing with a radiologist is called uh Gvon's paradox,
1186
00:30:54.430 --> 00:30:54.580
um,
1187
00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:57.050
which is if I technologically,
1188
00:30:57.390 --> 00:30:57.640
um,
1189
00:30:57.790 --> 00:30:59.330
make something inexpensive
1190
00:30:59.550 --> 00:31:00.170
or even
1191
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:00.740
replace it,
1192
00:31:00.830 --> 00:31:02.060
like people want more of it.
1193
00:31:02.410 --> 00:31:02.760
Um,
1194
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:03.390
and
1195
00:31:03.610 --> 00:31:04.590
that is true
1196
00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:06.000
in certain situations.
1197
00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:08.240
It is one thing I want to return to,
1198
00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:08.600
um,
1199
00:31:08.850 --> 00:31:09.750
you talked about,
1200
00:31:09.850 --> 00:31:10.080
look,
1201
00:31:10.270 --> 00:31:12.670
job replacement as a transitional period actually
1202
00:31:12.810 --> 00:31:14.280
will take a little bit of time,
1203
00:31:14.690 --> 00:31:15.120
and,
1204
00:31:15.330 --> 00:31:15.640
um,
1205
00:31:15.770 --> 00:31:15.960
that,
1206
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:17.430
that's something I think
1207
00:31:17.610 --> 00:31:20.050
is changing even as we're having this conversation.
1208
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:21.750
So if you look at AI models
1209
00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:24.070
12 months ago or 24 months ago,
1210
00:31:24.370 --> 00:31:24.870
they're
1211
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:26.700
completely different today.
1212
00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:29.440
And if you fast forward another 12 or 24 months,
1213
00:31:29.530 --> 00:31:30.720
they'll be different again.
1214
00:31:31.100 --> 00:31:33.440
I have a joke where I'm now 50 years old,
1215
00:31:33.580 --> 00:31:35.330
which means if I don't get dumber in a given month,
1216
00:31:35.380 --> 00:31:36.150
it was a good month.
1217
00:31:36.780 --> 00:31:37.210
Meanwhile,
1218
00:31:37.260 --> 00:31:39.450
the models will get twice as smart that month.
1219
00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:42.290
And so saying that I'm somehow going to keep up with them,
1220
00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:43.150
if I just,
1221
00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:43.450
uh,
1222
00:31:43.510 --> 00:31:43.890
you know,
1223
00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:44.330
uh,
1224
00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:46.080
do this program or
1225
00:31:46.340 --> 00:31:48.010
um get this certificate,
1226
00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:50.560
like it is not going to work for
1227
00:31:50.820 --> 00:31:52.130
like a whole legion of people.
1228
00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:54.080
And I think this transition is going to be much,
1229
00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:54.770
much faster,
1230
00:31:54.860 --> 00:31:55.480
unfortunately,
1231
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.490
than a lot of people wish.
1232
00:31:56.620 --> 00:31:57.480
And as one
1233
00:31:57.760 --> 00:31:58.670
piece of evidence,
1234
00:31:58.980 --> 00:31:59.090
a
1235
00:31:59.310 --> 00:32:00.380
A company called Block
1236
00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:06.340
um set a new record for percentage of workers they'd laid off um in S&P 500 history
1237
00:32:06.690 --> 00:32:09.630
a number of months ago where they fired about 40% of their,
1238
00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:10.210
their staff.
1239
00:32:10.340 --> 00:32:10.880
It was
1240
00:32:11.020 --> 00:32:13.010
4000 out of 10,000,
1241
00:32:13.100 --> 00:32:13.690
and they just said,
1242
00:32:13.780 --> 00:32:14.130
look,
1243
00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.480
AI intelligence tools are gonna make it so that this is
1244
00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:19.500
something that we're gonna have to do.
1245
00:32:19.870 --> 00:32:20.090
Um,
1246
00:32:20.340 --> 00:32:20.870
and,
1247
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:21.120
uh,
1248
00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:23.170
that's happening now in real time.
1249
00:32:23.300 --> 00:32:27.450
Oracle laid off 30,000 workers and said we're doing it to invest in AI.
1250
00:32:28.030 --> 00:32:28.220
Um,
1251
00:32:28.430 --> 00:32:28.850
Meta,
1252
00:32:28.950 --> 00:32:29.100
which,
1253
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:29.250
uh,
1254
00:32:29.470 --> 00:32:29.620
you know,
1255
00:32:29.670 --> 00:32:30.420
Nikil worked for,
1256
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.500
said 8000,
1257
00:32:31.570 --> 00:32:32.650
also cited AI,
1258
00:32:32.670 --> 00:32:34.370
and I think this stuff is speeding up
1259
00:32:34.620 --> 00:32:35.780
and going faster.
1260
00:32:36.010 --> 00:32:38.450
So this is not like a multi-year transition.
1261
00:32:38.590 --> 00:32:39.190
This is like a,
1262
00:32:39.230 --> 00:32:39.660
hey,
1263
00:32:39.950 --> 00:32:40.530
sorry,
1264
00:32:40.860 --> 00:32:40.930
uh,
1265
00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:43.060
like we don't need you anymore type of situation.
1266
00:32:43.270 --> 00:32:44.540
So you brought up Gvon's paradox,
1267
00:32:44.560 --> 00:32:46.020
and that's a great one because that's a big thing
1268
00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:49.230
that economics say and specifically with Gvon's paradox as AI.
1269
00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:53.130
Productivity increases productivity there also increases more demand and you
1270
00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:54.850
brought up the speed and I'm glad you brought up
1271
00:32:54.850 --> 00:32:58.010
the speed because this is a different technology and different
1272
00:32:58.010 --> 00:33:00.610
from other types of technology that got introduced in the past
1273
00:33:00.740 --> 00:33:04.010
but you're also seeing a rise in demand for new types of things and one
1274
00:33:04.010 --> 00:33:05.650
of the biggest areas where we're seeing rise
1275
00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:07.800
in demand are things that are uniquely human
1276
00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:10.730
and that AI cannot replace things like taste.
1277
00:33:10.870 --> 00:33:11.620
Like judgment,
1278
00:33:11.790 --> 00:33:11.900
uh,
1279
00:33:12.070 --> 00:33:13.020
things that
1280
00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:14.500
the AI can't do in intelligence,
1281
00:33:14.590 --> 00:33:15.620
there is more demand for it,
1282
00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:17.290
creating more scarcity
1283
00:33:17.390 --> 00:33:17.710
for it,
1284
00:33:17.750 --> 00:33:19.970
and then creating new types of markets that are going
1285
00:33:19.990 --> 00:33:21.940
to want to incentivize that type of stuff as well,
1286
00:33:22.150 --> 00:33:23.660
creating new jobs in those fields.
1287
00:33:23.790 --> 00:33:24.260
All right,
1288
00:33:24.470 --> 00:33:24.810
like,
1289
00:33:24.830 --> 00:33:26.370
I'm with you on new jobs.
1290
00:33:26.510 --> 00:33:27.730
I'm with you on,
1291
00:33:28.070 --> 00:33:28.220
uh,
1292
00:33:28.310 --> 00:33:29.860
even taste and judgment-ish.
1293
00:33:30.030 --> 00:33:33.100
Something like graphic design used to be considered a creative task,
1294
00:33:33.150 --> 00:33:35.300
and now that's getting pounded out by AI.
1295
00:33:35.750 --> 00:33:35.940
Um,
1296
00:33:36.070 --> 00:33:36.770
video making,
1297
00:33:37.070 --> 00:33:37.140
um,
1298
00:33:37.270 --> 00:33:37.630
no offense,
1299
00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:38.250
Jubilee,
1300
00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:40.980
used to be considered a highly creative human task,
1301
00:33:41.070 --> 00:33:41.570
and that's,
1302
00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:41.780
uh,
1303
00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:42.780
getting mulched by,
1304
00:33:42.870 --> 00:33:43.630
by AI,
1305
00:33:43.990 --> 00:33:44.220
um,
1306
00:33:44.470 --> 00:33:47.780
and so a lot of high level cognitive and creative work,
1307
00:33:48.110 --> 00:33:48.860
musician,
1308
00:33:49.270 --> 00:33:49.420
um,
1309
00:33:49.550 --> 00:33:49.740
you know,
1310
00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:52.060
it can get taken up by AI.
1311
00:33:52.230 --> 00:33:53.130
So you have
1312
00:33:53.310 --> 00:33:54.910
like increasing need for
1313
00:33:55.070 --> 00:33:56.700
human relationships and judgment,
1314
00:33:56.790 --> 00:33:58.330
but it's only being enjoyed
1315
00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.560
by folks who can
1316
00:33:59.800 --> 00:34:00.940
afford to pay a premium.
1317
00:34:01.070 --> 00:34:02.890
So what's happening is that you have,
1318
00:34:03.270 --> 00:34:04.310
you have something called a K-shaped.
1319
00:34:04.630 --> 00:34:05.040
Economy
1320
00:34:05.330 --> 00:34:06.930
where the top 20%
1321
00:34:07.610 --> 00:34:09.600
are capital holders and benefiting from a lot of
1322
00:34:09.600 --> 00:34:12.150
the trends we're describing and so if I'm rich
1323
00:34:12.330 --> 00:34:16.280
and I want someone to tell me what painting I should hang in in my living room,
1324
00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:18.320
I will pay a human to do it,
1325
00:34:18.610 --> 00:34:18.760
um,
1326
00:34:18.889 --> 00:34:19.639
and so you could be like,
1327
00:34:19.730 --> 00:34:19.880
oh,
1328
00:34:19.969 --> 00:34:20.710
there's a new job,
1329
00:34:20.730 --> 00:34:21.239
it's like,
1330
00:34:21.290 --> 00:34:21.520
you know,
1331
00:34:21.650 --> 00:34:23.860
home art decorator that didn't exist,
1332
00:34:24.170 --> 00:34:24.330
um,
1333
00:34:24.489 --> 00:34:25.159
and that is.
1334
00:34:25.300 --> 00:34:26.139
True statement.
1335
00:34:27.570 --> 00:34:27.760
But,
1336
00:34:28.130 --> 00:34:28.510
but
1337
00:34:28.730 --> 00:34:30.230
that's only because,
1338
00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:33.300
like the ultra winners are going to,
1339
00:34:33.489 --> 00:34:33.639
like,
1340
00:34:33.810 --> 00:34:33.960
you know,
1341
00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:34.510
want
1342
00:34:34.810 --> 00:34:35.469
people's taste
1343
00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:37.300
and we should do all we can to prevent a case
1344
00:34:37.730 --> 00:34:38.880
you've been voted out by the majority.
1345
00:34:39.010 --> 00:34:39.389
Thank you.
1346
00:34:39.449 --> 00:34:39.949
Thank you very much.
1347
00:34:40.170 --> 00:34:40.670
Such a pleasure.
1348
00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:42.040
I'd love to.
1349
00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:42.199
Oh,
1350
00:34:42.330 --> 00:34:42.520
thank you.
1351
00:34:42.770 --> 00:34:43.360
I enjoy that.
1352
00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:43.790
Thank you.
1353
00:34:43.929 --> 00:34:45.880
321.
1354
00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:49.820
My gosh,
1355
00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:51.060
I'm Skip Rizzo.
1356
00:34:51.230 --> 00:34:51.739
Good to meet you.
1357
00:34:51.870 --> 00:34:52.260
Hey Skip,
1358
00:34:52.310 --> 00:34:53.320
you look so familiar to me.
1359
00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:53.530
Yeah,
1360
00:34:54.040 --> 00:34:55.219
I've been on TV or movies.
1361
00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:59.300
I'm a professor at USC at the Institute for Creative Technologies,
1362
00:34:59.430 --> 00:35:01.890
and I've been studying this area for 30 years.
1363
00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:02.540
I'm also,
1364
00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:05.180
I also have a startup sidekick platform
1365
00:35:05.430 --> 00:35:05.950
which
1366
00:35:06.430 --> 00:35:07.820
in the last week
1367
00:35:08.150 --> 00:35:08.830
has
1368
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:11.050
Gotten the VA
1369
00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:12.410
to distribute
1370
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:14.700
and endorse an AI
1371
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.210
conversational AI agent for veterans.
1372
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:17.940
I love it.
1373
00:35:18.170 --> 00:35:18.290
And,
1374
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:18.790
and you know why,
1375
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:19.060
Skip,
1376
00:35:19.080 --> 00:35:19.620
I love it
1377
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.270
is because studies have shown that military veterans,
1378
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:22.520
um,
1379
00:35:22.810 --> 00:35:23.890
sometimes prefer
1380
00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:25.260
the AI
1381
00:35:25.410 --> 00:35:26.220
conversationalist
1382
00:35:26.600 --> 00:35:29.110
because then they feel like they can actually share and vent and
1383
00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:30.790
then if you put them in front of a human therapist,
1384
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:31.620
they'll just clam up.
1385
00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:33.700
This is what our work has been doing over the years,
1386
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:34.910
so saving lives.
1387
00:35:35.290 --> 00:35:35.560
Love it.
1388
00:35:35.680 --> 00:35:36.570
Sidekick plus,
1389
00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:36.910
yeah,
1390
00:35:37.050 --> 00:35:37.550
yeah.
1391
00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:39.200
But you know,
1392
00:35:39.410 --> 00:35:40.410
going back to the industrial,
1393
00:35:40.450 --> 00:35:41.840
isn't that gonna eliminate human therapists?
1394
00:35:43.930 --> 00:35:44.720
We can do that.
1395
00:35:45.050 --> 00:35:45.200
Wait,
1396
00:35:45.220 --> 00:35:46.140
you're agreeing with it?
1397
00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:47.670
I thought you were on the other side of this.
1398
00:35:47.870 --> 00:35:47.920
No,
1399
00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:49.360
I agree with a lot of what you're saying.
1400
00:35:49.490 --> 00:35:49.680
In fact,
1401
00:35:49.810 --> 00:35:51.210
I'm not sure you're
1402
00:35:51.330 --> 00:35:52.600
necessarily the realist.
1403
00:35:52.730 --> 00:35:53.400
I think you're,
1404
00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:56.040
I think we're all realists when it comes to AI,
1405
00:35:56.250 --> 00:35:56.710
you know.
1406
00:35:57.310 --> 00:35:59.780
Maybe you're a little bit more cautious because
1407
00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:02.690
you understand the financial elements and that becomes
1408
00:36:02.910 --> 00:36:03.880
a political
1409
00:36:04.030 --> 00:36:04.540
uh
1410
00:36:04.870 --> 00:36:05.220
discussion
1411
00:36:06.110 --> 00:36:06.700
going back,
1412
00:36:06.870 --> 00:36:07.060
you know,
1413
00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.820
the whole thing with industrial revolution,
1414
00:36:08.910 --> 00:36:09.100
you know,
1415
00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:13.200
all transformations lead to certain types of job loss,
1416
00:36:13.240 --> 00:36:13.590
you know,
1417
00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:18.610
1900 you could say lamplighters or ice carriers.
1418
00:36:19.220 --> 00:36:21.000
Telegraph operators,
1419
00:36:21.220 --> 00:36:21.800
they're gone
1420
00:36:22.030 --> 00:36:23.290
computer revolution,
1421
00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:23.850
uh,
1422
00:36:24.060 --> 00:36:24.970
typesetters,
1423
00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:25.920
typists,
1424
00:36:26.180 --> 00:36:27.760
switchboard operators,
1425
00:36:28.030 --> 00:36:28.440
but
1426
00:36:28.780 --> 00:36:31.880
we've replaced those jobs with better jobs or
1427
00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:35.370
different jobs that leverage the technology we have today.
1428
00:36:35.670 --> 00:36:36.140
Now
1429
00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:37.220
I
1430
00:36:37.490 --> 00:36:39.120
am taking a position and
1431
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.670
I want to cite the World Economic Forum
1432
00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:44.280
stat that is commonly bandied about
1433
00:36:44.420 --> 00:36:46.210
uh 90 million jobs will be.
1434
00:36:46.350 --> 00:36:47.090
Loss by
1435
00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:48.300
2030,
1436
00:36:48.710 --> 00:36:48.840
but
1437
00:36:49.470 --> 00:36:50.740
people forget
1438
00:36:51.670 --> 00:36:57.290
they forget that there's another part of that 170 million jobs will be created
1439
00:36:57.500 --> 00:36:58.810
due to AI,
1440
00:36:59.070 --> 00:37:00.340
so we have a net gain.
1441
00:37:00.470 --> 00:37:01.490
And what I'm saying,
1442
00:37:01.630 --> 00:37:02.730
like with the veteran app,
1443
00:37:02.770 --> 00:37:04.690
we're not replacing jobs,
1444
00:37:04.910 --> 00:37:09.450
we're filling in a gap where there isn't enough people
1445
00:37:09.670 --> 00:37:11.540
to provide that service
1446
00:37:11.750 --> 00:37:12.710
for veterans,
1447
00:37:12.950 --> 00:37:13.280
so.
1448
00:37:13.710 --> 00:37:14.010
You know,
1449
00:37:14.470 --> 00:37:15.440
what do you think on this?
1450
00:37:15.870 --> 00:37:16.260
All right,
1451
00:37:16.430 --> 00:37:18.850
so this is one reason why it gets confusing in my opinion
1452
00:37:18.850 --> 00:37:22.100
is that like I actually agree that many jobs will be created.
1453
00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:24.580
I just think that the ratio is going to be like way out of whack
1454
00:37:24.910 --> 00:37:26.380
and economists have something,
1455
00:37:26.510 --> 00:37:29.020
there's a phenomenon for this called job polarization.
1456
00:37:29.450 --> 00:37:32.240
Which is you're gonna have a handful of high-end jobs and a lot
1457
00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:35.560
of low-end jobs and all the middle tier jobs are gonna get decimated.
1458
00:37:35.810 --> 00:37:37.640
And so the middle tier jobs are like a
1459
00:37:37.640 --> 00:37:39.870
lot of the white collar professionals that right now
1460
00:37:40.040 --> 00:37:42.080
can make a good living as a lawyer,
1461
00:37:42.250 --> 00:37:42.760
consultant,
1462
00:37:42.970 --> 00:37:43.400
accountant,
1463
00:37:43.490 --> 00:37:43.960
banker,
1464
00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:44.950
marketing pro.
1465
00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:49.910
AI is gonna just get rid of a lot of those jobs and I say this because I've sat with uh
1466
00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:52.470
a public company CEO who said to me,
1467
00:37:52.740 --> 00:37:53.000
um,
1468
00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:54.080
hey Andrew.
1469
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.910
I'm gonna fire 20% of my workers this year.
1470
00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.030
I'm gonna fire another 20% 2 years from now.
1471
00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:01.240
I'm gonna fire another 20% 2 years from now.
1472
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:02.430
Every time it happens,
1473
00:38:02.520 --> 00:38:03.710
I'm going to get a bonus.
1474
00:38:03.910 --> 00:38:04.190
By the way,
1475
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:05.110
if I don't do this,
1476
00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:07.500
they're going to fire me and replace me with someone else.
1477
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.860
And multiple big company CEOs recently raised their hand and said,
1478
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.500
I'm out
1479
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:14.940
because I don't want to undergo the AI transformation
1480
00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:16.190
and then the board
1481
00:38:16.390 --> 00:38:17.760
will then like grab someone.
1482
00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:18.680
Who will?
1483
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:22.490
So if you look at all of those corporations scrubbing jobs,
1484
00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:23.870
I think that's going to be
1485
00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:24.710
a huge,
1486
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:29.160
huge reduction in the 70 million white collar workers,
1487
00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:32.040
and I'm gonna give you a data point that I think cuts in this direction.
1488
00:38:32.410 --> 00:38:36.120
We now spend as a society more money on data centers than on office buildings.
1489
00:38:36.180 --> 00:38:37.410
I want everyone to think about that.
1490
00:38:37.610 --> 00:38:40.000
Like we spend more money on data centers and office buildings,
1491
00:38:40.130 --> 00:38:41.480
so the server is the new human.
1492
00:38:42.060 --> 00:38:42.770
Anyone who's like,
1493
00:38:42.890 --> 00:38:43.010
hey,
1494
00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:44.880
we're gonna spend $3 trillion
1495
00:38:45.100 --> 00:38:46.130
on AI,
1496
00:38:46.300 --> 00:38:48.490
but it's not going to affect millions of workers,
1497
00:38:48.660 --> 00:38:51.930
I think does not understand the way any of these CEOs' incentives are,
1498
00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:54.530
doesn't understand the way the stock market's gonna cudgel
1499
00:38:54.530 --> 00:38:56.190
them if they don't get with the program.
1500
00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:58.650
If you employ a lot of people in the AI age,
1501
00:38:58.700 --> 00:38:59.810
it means you're behind the times,
1502
00:38:59.860 --> 00:39:00.530
a dinosaur,
1503
00:39:00.620 --> 00:39:02.240
we should replace you with someone else.
1504
00:39:02.500 --> 00:39:05.870
So you're gonna see a massive contraction of every very significant,
1505
00:39:06.140 --> 00:39:06.370
um,
1506
00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:07.890
sized company,
1507
00:39:08.110 --> 00:39:10.810
or you're gonna see a new CEO who's gonna take the hatchet very quickly.
1508
00:39:11.540 --> 00:39:11.670
See,
1509
00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:15.630
that's why I say you're an AI pessimist because you're not talking
1510
00:39:15.630 --> 00:39:19.270
about the jobs that AI will create to replace those jobs.
1511
00:39:19.450 --> 00:39:19.630
All right,
1512
00:39:19.720 --> 00:39:19.990
Skip,
1513
00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:20.980
we do have to pause here.
1514
00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:21.150
Good
1515
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:22.220
luck in 2028.
1516
00:39:22.520 --> 00:39:22.750
Thank you,
1517
00:39:22.810 --> 00:39:23.070
Skip.
1518
00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:23.670
Real pleasure.
1519
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:24.680
Sidekick plus.
1520
00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:26.750
If you'd like to be the next debater,
1521
00:39:26.890 --> 00:39:30.470
please get to the chair in +321.
1522
00:39:32.120 --> 00:39:32.130
Oh,
1523
00:39:34.430 --> 00:39:34.780
Andrew,
1524
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:35.820
nice to meet you.
1525
00:39:35.870 --> 00:39:36.430
I'm Vern.
1526
00:39:36.590 --> 00:39:36.940
Vern,
1527
00:39:37.070 --> 00:39:37.250
yeah,
1528
00:39:37.910 --> 00:39:39.210
my second name is Andrew also,
1529
00:39:39.230 --> 00:39:39.640
actually.
1530
00:39:40.310 --> 00:39:42.700
So you're like Vern Andrew and Andrew is my first name.
1531
00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:43.060
Cool.
1532
00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:44.250
I wanna kind of
1533
00:39:44.430 --> 00:39:48.010
just check where you're at on your claim because you're saying millions of jobs
1534
00:39:48.150 --> 00:39:48.870
or the rate
1535
00:39:48.990 --> 00:39:51.270
of new jobs will just be outweighed,
1536
00:39:51.430 --> 00:39:51.580
right?
1537
00:39:52.070 --> 00:39:52.220
Where,
1538
00:39:52.350 --> 00:39:52.560
where,
1539
00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:54.060
like where is that coming from though,
1540
00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:55.600
because let's use some.
1541
00:39:56.080 --> 00:39:57.000
Metric to measure it,
1542
00:39:57.080 --> 00:39:57.270
right?
1543
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.350
Let's talk about unemployment,
1544
00:39:58.370 --> 00:39:58.710
for example.
1545
00:39:58.840 --> 00:39:59.670
What is it currently?
1546
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:01.030
It's around 3 to 4,
1547
00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:01.950
5%,
1548
00:40:02.810 --> 00:40:03.120
right?
1549
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:04.040
So
1550
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:04.580
in
1551
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:05.990
the past,
1552
00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:06.580
right,
1553
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.630
how bad has unemployment gone?
1554
00:40:08.700 --> 00:40:08.910
I mean,
1555
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:09.820
obviously you
1556
00:40:10.170 --> 00:40:10.290
said
1557
00:40:10.640 --> 00:40:11.430
like 25%,
1558
00:40:11.600 --> 00:40:12.170
25%,
1559
00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:12.360
right?
1560
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.230
And that's kind of like a ceiling that has happened,
1561
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:15.990
but something crazy happened,
1562
00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:16.420
right?
1563
00:40:16.910 --> 00:40:17.820
Something crazy happened at that.
1564
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:19.020
You mean the Great Depression or no?
1565
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:19.300
Yeah,
1566
00:40:19.470 --> 00:40:19.540
no,
1567
00:40:19.660 --> 00:40:20.230
the Great Depression.
1568
00:40:20.470 --> 00:40:20.980
Even then,
1569
00:40:21.150 --> 00:40:21.790
since then,
1570
00:40:21.950 --> 00:40:23.540
it's never exceeded 25%,
1571
00:40:23.630 --> 00:40:23.770
right?
1572
00:40:23.830 --> 00:40:24.060
Oh yeah,
1573
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:26.570
I just want to dig into this number because it's super important.
1574
00:40:26.870 --> 00:40:28.510
So the unemployment rate
1575
00:40:28.700 --> 00:40:29.370
measures
1576
00:40:29.490 --> 00:40:32.740
who's in the workforce actively looking and can't find a job.
1577
00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:35.000
Right now it seems like a very low,
1578
00:40:35.270 --> 00:40:35.740
reasonable,
1579
00:40:35.790 --> 00:40:37.070
like 3 to 4%.
1580
00:40:37.370 --> 00:40:38.520
It doesn't measure
1581
00:40:38.730 --> 00:40:39.580
underemployment,
1582
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:40.180
so it's like,
1583
00:40:40.270 --> 00:40:40.420
hey,
1584
00:40:40.470 --> 00:40:43.300
I'm a college grad who like then took a job as a barista.
1585
00:40:43.430 --> 00:40:44.260
An Uber driver
1586
00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:46.770
in the unemployment rate that counts as fully employed.
1587
00:40:46.860 --> 00:40:48.150
There's something called the U6,
1588
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:49.530
which is you're underemployed,
1589
00:40:49.550 --> 00:40:51.090
and it's about twice the,
1590
00:40:51.180 --> 00:40:52.490
the U3 unemployment rate.
1591
00:40:52.580 --> 00:40:54.130
So instead of 3 to 4%,
1592
00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:55.610
it might read as like 67,
1593
00:40:55.700 --> 00:40:56.050
8%,
1594
00:40:56.100 --> 00:40:56.960
which seems worse.
1595
00:40:57.180 --> 00:40:58.090
So then you say,
1596
00:40:58.140 --> 00:40:58.410
OK,
1597
00:40:58.540 --> 00:40:59.650
even if I accept 67,
1598
00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:00.200
8%,
1599
00:41:00.490 --> 00:41:00.810
maybe.
1600
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:03.890
And then you have an underemployment rate of recent college graduates,
1601
00:41:03.940 --> 00:41:06.650
which right now is 42% heading up to 50%.
1602
00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:07.600
And that's
1603
00:41:07.900 --> 00:41:08.330
like a very,
1604
00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:09.970
very bad thing for the future.
1605
00:41:10.410 --> 00:41:10.880
So you're saying
1606
00:41:11.570 --> 00:41:13.880
you're saying 1 in 2 college grads can't get a job?
1607
00:41:14.010 --> 00:41:14.080
No,
1608
00:41:14.170 --> 00:41:14.240
no,
1609
00:41:14.330 --> 00:41:15.920
they're underemployed according to,
1610
00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:16.160
to,
1611
00:41:16.250 --> 00:41:16.720
to the stats.
1612
00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:17.840
But here's like the major,
1613
00:41:17.970 --> 00:41:18.470
major
1614
00:41:18.890 --> 00:41:21.910
like hair on fire fact that we need to actually
1615
00:41:22.050 --> 00:41:23.090
get our arms around
1616
00:41:23.330 --> 00:41:26.990
is that the labor force participation rate in the United States
1617
00:41:27.130 --> 00:41:31.040
has been declining and declining and declining over the last number of years,
1618
00:41:31.060 --> 00:41:32.400
whereas we're together right now,
1619
00:41:32.450 --> 00:41:33.830
it's at a 20-year low
1620
00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:36.560
of around 61.5%.
1621
00:41:36.770 --> 00:41:38.910
Which includes the fact that 1/3
1622
00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:43.580
of working age American men is no longer in the workforce.
1623
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.100
And you guys all know dudes who resemble this.
1624
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:47.810
All know dudes who resemble this.
1625
00:41:48.370 --> 00:41:49.300
So that person,
1626
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:50.910
that guy who went home and said,
1627
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:51.660
I'm out,
1628
00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:54.620
no longer gets factored into the headline unemployment.
1629
00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:54.790
I mean,
1630
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:55.270
that's fine,
1631
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:55.710
but OK,
1632
00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:56.070
let's,
1633
00:41:56.120 --> 00:41:58.620
let's use that ceiling of 25%.
1634
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.230
The highest it's been in modern history is like during COVID,
1635
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:01.440
right?
1636
00:42:01.520 --> 00:42:03.310
It maybe got up to 15%.
1637
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:05.240
But all in that's to say
1638
00:42:05.370 --> 00:42:09.700
you're claiming that AI is gonna be the reason why jobs are eliminated,
1639
00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:10.200
which
1640
00:42:10.340 --> 00:42:12.730
I would argue I don't think it's jobs are gonna be eliminated.
1641
00:42:12.860 --> 00:42:14.290
I think it's gonna be disrupted
1642
00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:16.480
just like every other revolution that's happened,
1643
00:42:16.850 --> 00:42:17.410
but
1644
00:42:18.060 --> 00:42:19.900
everything has came back like because of policy,
1645
00:42:20.100 --> 00:42:22.250
because of institutions that were built in response to
1646
00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:24.090
these things that have happened like we used to,
1647
00:42:24.190 --> 00:42:25.640
we used to not work
1648
00:42:25.780 --> 00:42:26.160
like
1649
00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:27.130
we used to work,
1650
00:42:27.220 --> 00:42:27.450
you know,
1651
00:42:27.660 --> 00:42:29.290
more than 40 hours a week back then,
1652
00:42:29.380 --> 00:42:30.250
but what came out of that,
1653
00:42:30.380 --> 00:42:30.570
you know,
1654
00:42:30.740 --> 00:42:31.930
the people gathered up and said,
1655
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.210
hey,
1656
00:42:32.300 --> 00:42:32.850
we need some labor.
1657
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:33.280
Laws,
1658
00:42:33.340 --> 00:42:33.770
child,
1659
00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:34.910
children didn't work,
1660
00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:35.370
you know,
1661
00:42:35.540 --> 00:42:36.860
all these things have come up with it.
1662
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:37.880
So let's just say
1663
00:42:38.080 --> 00:42:38.890
jobs are eliminated,
1664
00:42:39.020 --> 00:42:40.290
tasks are eliminated.
1665
00:42:40.340 --> 00:42:43.730
I think the jobs are there because you even cited talking about customer support,
1666
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:44.050
right?
1667
00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:45.530
Like you get through an agent,
1668
00:42:45.580 --> 00:42:45.890
whatever,
1669
00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:46.810
but at the same time,
1670
00:42:46.900 --> 00:42:48.170
here's an anecdotal story.
1671
00:42:48.620 --> 00:42:52.410
I was talking to a chat agent and I just wasn't getting any answers
1672
00:42:52.580 --> 00:42:53.970
and it's kind of morbid and it's,
1673
00:42:54.140 --> 00:42:54.290
it,
1674
00:42:54.420 --> 00:42:54.530
it,
1675
00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:56.970
it's kind of sucky to get the attention of a human.
1676
00:42:57.370 --> 00:42:59.560
But I just told the AI chat chatbot like,
1677
00:42:59.580 --> 00:43:00.060
hey man,
1678
00:43:00.250 --> 00:43:01.320
get me a person or I'm gonna kill
1679
00:43:01.490 --> 00:43:01.840
myself.
1680
00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:03.440
So it's like you can override these things.
1681
00:43:03.530 --> 00:43:04.030
I think
1682
00:43:04.610 --> 00:43:05.000
exactly.
1683
00:43:05.090 --> 00:43:08.310
But the thing is I think humans are a lot smarter than that
1684
00:43:08.810 --> 00:43:10.070
because at the same time,
1685
00:43:10.410 --> 00:43:12.350
how does AI get its value or its knowledge,
1686
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:12.570
right?
1687
00:43:12.650 --> 00:43:14.310
Let's say knowledge is a value.
1688
00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:16.880
AI doesn't know anything except what we already know.
1689
00:43:17.010 --> 00:43:18.040
We're giving it this information,
1690
00:43:18.090 --> 00:43:19.550
maybe it could process it,
1691
00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:23.280
but that's why I'm saying I don't think the jobs are gonna be eliminated at a rate
1692
00:43:23.450 --> 00:43:24.270
that is as
1693
00:43:24.460 --> 00:43:25.960
doomsday like that you claim,
1694
00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:26.830
but
1695
00:43:27.650 --> 00:43:29.190
I'll agree that there will be a disruption.
1696
00:43:29.780 --> 00:43:32.130
So if we agree that there's gonna be disruption,
1697
00:43:32.260 --> 00:43:32.810
I think there are,
1698
00:43:32.860 --> 00:43:34.560
there are two elements that people
1699
00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:36.180
can look at differently.
1700
00:43:36.470 --> 00:43:37.720
One is the magnitude,
1701
00:43:37.740 --> 00:43:39.760
and the second is the pace of the rate.
1702
00:43:40.020 --> 00:43:40.130
Now,
1703
00:43:40.220 --> 00:43:42.800
I'm someone who thinks it's gonna be very high magnitude
1704
00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:43.330
and very,
1705
00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:44.300
very fast
1706
00:43:44.540 --> 00:43:45.940
over a whole range of industries,
1707
00:43:46.060 --> 00:43:47.800
in part because I talked to CEOs
1708
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:49.910
who run firms in insurance,
1709
00:43:50.060 --> 00:43:50.320
in,
1710
00:43:50.380 --> 00:43:50.580
uh,
1711
00:43:50.620 --> 00:43:51.030
tech,
1712
00:43:51.220 --> 00:43:52.300
in finance,
1713
00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:53.570
and they're all saying to me,
1714
00:43:53.700 --> 00:43:53.850
hey,
1715
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.330
Andrew,
1716
00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:55.230
I'm gonna cut
1717
00:43:55.460 --> 00:43:56.050
2030,
1718
00:43:56.100 --> 00:43:56.330
40,
1719
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:58.530
50% of my workers or I myself I'm gonna lose.
1720
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.910
But then what about the CEOs that are backpedaling on
1721
00:44:00.910 --> 00:44:03.710
it like you just said Oracle dropped 30K jobs,
1722
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.060
but some jobs are coming back
1723
00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:08.460
or it's like they're hiring internally and then they have to fill in those gaps for,
1724
00:44:08.600 --> 00:44:08.710
you know,
1725
00:44:08.930 --> 00:44:09.680
succession planning.
1726
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:11.190
It's all happening.
1727
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:11.900
I agree.
1728
00:44:12.040 --> 00:44:15.420
I'm still not convinced at the rate because you use the number of millions
1729
00:44:15.560 --> 00:44:17.790
versus the magnitude or the significant digits that
1730
00:44:17.790 --> 00:44:18.910
you've used is like tens of thousands.
1731
00:44:19.010 --> 00:44:19.660
That's only
1732
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:24.270
six digits versus 78 digit like jobs are gone unless you have a timeline on it.
1733
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:24.590
Yes,
1734
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:24.870
no,
1735
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:25.030
no,
1736
00:44:25.120 --> 00:44:25.240
and,
1737
00:44:25.270 --> 00:44:25.830
and please let,
1738
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:27.490
let me actually it's a very important point to make.
1739
00:44:27.850 --> 00:44:30.110
And this is something that every CEO knows.
1740
00:44:30.410 --> 00:44:32.070
The easiest people to fire
1741
00:44:32.290 --> 00:44:34.080
are the people you have not hired yet.
1742
00:44:34.210 --> 00:44:35.910
As someone who runs a company,
1743
00:44:36.130 --> 00:44:38.600
the single biggest move I can make is to just be like,
1744
00:44:38.690 --> 00:44:39.080
hey guys,
1745
00:44:39.170 --> 00:44:40.320
we're not gonna be hiring
1746
00:44:40.490 --> 00:44:41.950
junior whippersnappers.
1747
00:44:42.130 --> 00:44:44.370
And then where does that show up in the numbers?
1748
00:44:44.730 --> 00:44:47.240
It shows up in the underemployment rate
1749
00:44:47.240 --> 00:44:49.230
of recent level of recent college graduates,
1750
00:44:49.330 --> 00:44:49.480
uh,
1751
00:44:49.650 --> 00:44:51.520
and that number is going up like that,
1752
00:44:51.570 --> 00:44:52.560
that's objective fact.
1753
00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:54.320
So you take my small company
1754
00:44:54.650 --> 00:44:56.280
and we've probably replaced,
1755
00:44:56.450 --> 00:44:57.210
let's call it,
1756
00:44:57.410 --> 00:44:57.880
you know,
1757
00:44:58.250 --> 00:44:59.230
5 jobs,
1758
00:44:59.330 --> 00:44:59.440
uh,
1759
00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:00.000
with AI.
1760
00:45:00.020 --> 00:45:00.880
It's not enormous.
1761
00:45:01.190 --> 00:45:02.730
But then you multiply
1762
00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:04.280
my small firm
1763
00:45:04.460 --> 00:45:07.550
times like the millions of small firms around the country.
1764
00:45:07.790 --> 00:45:09.940
And so I think you're going to be able to discern
1765
00:45:09.940 --> 00:45:13.350
easily like 6 figures of layoffs due to AI directly.
1766
00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:16.610
And then they're going to be all these other layoffs that don't make the headlines
1767
00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:17.490
because
1768
00:45:17.630 --> 00:45:18.420
like Noble Mobile,
1769
00:45:18.470 --> 00:45:18.860
my company,
1770
00:45:18.950 --> 00:45:20.690
not hiring 5 people is not a headline.
1771
00:45:20.950 --> 00:45:22.500
But then you multiply that times all the.
1772
00:45:22.630 --> 00:45:23.530
Small businesses,
1773
00:45:23.660 --> 00:45:24.010
like,
1774
00:45:24.100 --> 00:45:25.170
I think it gets into the millions.
1775
00:45:25.260 --> 00:45:25.330
Yeah,
1776
00:45:25.420 --> 00:45:26.290
you're saying six figures,
1777
00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:28.680
but then it's like at the magnitude of multiple companies are doing that
1778
00:45:28.780 --> 00:45:29.370
at the end of the day,
1779
00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:32.410
like maybe there won't be employees left and they'll have to rehire anyway,
1780
00:45:32.610 --> 00:45:33.410
just like the stock market,
1781
00:45:33.460 --> 00:45:34.380
it goes up and down.
1782
00:45:34.540 --> 00:45:36.090
Maybe this rate will go up and down,
1783
00:45:36.220 --> 00:45:38.720
but you're arguing at a rampantcy rate of just like
1784
00:45:39.100 --> 00:45:39.890
non-convergence.
1785
00:45:39.980 --> 00:45:41.650
I definitely think it's non-convergent.
1786
00:45:41.700 --> 00:45:43.970
I think we're in for a secular reduction.
1787
00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:48.170
In the number of people who show up to an office and look at a computer screen,
1788
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.120
and that includes people who do it remotely.
1789
00:45:50.220 --> 00:45:51.790
And the comparison I'd make
1790
00:45:51.980 --> 00:45:54.010
is that imagine when the first robot arms started
1791
00:45:54.010 --> 00:45:56.220
showing up on the factory floors in like 1990,
1792
00:45:56.260 --> 00:45:56.960
and then the,
1793
00:45:57.220 --> 00:45:58.450
like people in the factory like,
1794
00:45:58.470 --> 00:45:59.010
oh no,
1795
00:45:59.180 --> 00:46:00.370
like what's going on there?
1796
00:46:00.660 --> 00:46:01.530
And then some of them,
1797
00:46:01.580 --> 00:46:02.760
100% said,
1798
00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:04.650
this will not threaten my job
1799
00:46:04.950 --> 00:46:06.450
because no one can turn that.
1800
00:46:06.560 --> 00:46:07.660
Screw the way I can
1801
00:46:07.910 --> 00:46:09.450
because like no one can do it
1802
00:46:09.640 --> 00:46:09.930
now.
1803
00:46:10.100 --> 00:46:11.620
We are in that moment right now.
1804
00:46:11.710 --> 00:46:14.010
It's just it's less visible because it's not a robot arm,
1805
00:46:14.270 --> 00:46:17.970
but $3 trillion being spent on intelligent machines that are doubling in power
1806
00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:19.020
every number of weeks,
1807
00:46:19.070 --> 00:46:21.690
they're 100% going to replace millions of workers
1808
00:46:21.930 --> 00:46:22.810
in my opinion,
1809
00:46:23.030 --> 00:46:27.340
and we will all see who's right in terms of this claim over the next number of months.
1810
00:46:27.470 --> 00:46:28.370
I dearly hope
1811
00:46:28.510 --> 00:46:28.700
that I.
1812
00:46:28.850 --> 00:46:29.470
Incorrect,
1813
00:46:29.640 --> 00:46:30.770
but I've seen nothing
1814
00:46:31.040 --> 00:46:32.030
to persuade me that I am.
1815
00:46:32.160 --> 00:46:32.710
If you're incorrect,
1816
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.910
we're gonna pause here because we're out of time with this claim.
1817
00:46:35.010 --> 00:46:35.020
Hey,
1818
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:35.560
pleasure.
1819
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:36.030
Great to see you,
1820
00:46:36.080 --> 00:46:36.210
man.
1821
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:37.030
It's great to meet you.
1822
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:37.710
Yeah,
1823
00:46:38.160 --> 00:46:38.420
brother,
1824
00:46:38.520 --> 00:46:38.980
thank you.
1825
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.590
My next surrounded claim is that universal basic income will
1826
00:46:42.590 --> 00:46:46.160
become necessary as AI reduces the need for human labor.
1827
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:47.590
If you'd like to be the next debater,
1828
00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:51.010
please get to the chair in 321.
1829
00:46:54.580 --> 00:46:55.050
Hello.
1830
00:46:55.180 --> 00:46:55.600
Well done.
1831
00:46:56.140 --> 00:46:56.620
How are you?
1832
00:46:56.740 --> 00:46:57.050
How are you?
1833
00:46:57.180 --> 00:46:57.530
What's your name,
1834
00:46:57.620 --> 00:46:58.050
Sophia?
1835
00:46:58.100 --> 00:46:58.250
I mean,
1836
00:46:58.300 --> 00:46:59.770
it's great to talk to you because you were the
1837
00:46:59.770 --> 00:47:02.070
person who first introduced me to the concept of UBI
1838
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.090
in the first place.
1839
00:47:03.220 --> 00:47:05.330
So a lot of your ideas like have been
1840
00:47:05.330 --> 00:47:07.040
floating around in my consciousness for a long time.
1841
00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:09.320
So I guess the main points I want to make here
1842
00:47:09.460 --> 00:47:11.090
is just to Raise awareness because a lot of
1843
00:47:11.090 --> 00:47:13.440
people presumably are going to be watching this video
1844
00:47:13.610 --> 00:47:15.060
to the different types of UBI
1845
00:47:15.260 --> 00:47:16.970
that we have like available or have been proposed.
1846
00:47:17.020 --> 00:47:17.520
So for example,
1847
00:47:17.620 --> 00:47:19.720
we have a sovereign wealth fund which is like
1848
00:47:19.900 --> 00:47:21.170
akin to what Norway has.
1849
00:47:21.260 --> 00:47:23.320
Alaska has more of like a public wealth fund,
1850
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:24.110
petroleum dividend,
1851
00:47:24.180 --> 00:47:24.330
yeah,
1852
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:24.490
yeah,
1853
00:47:24.540 --> 00:47:24.650
yeah,
1854
00:47:24.740 --> 00:47:25.280
for everyone.
1855
00:47:26.080 --> 00:47:26.500
A
1856
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.220
universal basic dividend would basically like
1857
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.550
distribute wealth to Americans based on like a
1858
00:47:31.550 --> 00:47:34.650
weighted index of say the top AI companies
1859
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:37.030
um and how you actually define what the top
1860
00:47:37.030 --> 00:47:39.060
AI companies are and whether they go into like
1861
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:41.190
infrastructure frontier models,
1862
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:41.510
uh,
1863
00:47:41.600 --> 00:47:41.960
etc.
1864
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:42.300
etc.
1865
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:42.780
etc.
1866
00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:44.080
that's the that's really.
1867
00:47:44.190 --> 00:47:45.620
I think the core topic of contention,
1868
00:47:45.670 --> 00:47:46.200
it's like,
1869
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:47.050
what would we even
1870
00:47:47.420 --> 00:47:48.540
categorize as
1871
00:47:48.710 --> 00:47:52.340
are you accepting the need for universal basic income generally and
1872
00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:55.160
just want to figure out the flavor or the mechanism?
1873
00:47:55.310 --> 00:47:56.620
I'm most interested in the flavor and the
1874
00:47:56.620 --> 00:47:58.250
mechanism because I think that there hasn't been
1875
00:47:58.390 --> 00:48:00.130
like rigorous enough work done in this.
1876
00:48:00.230 --> 00:48:02.280
I generally am of the viewpoint that
1877
00:48:02.450 --> 00:48:04.800
We need to put more research and resources
1878
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:05.950
into measuring,
1879
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:06.070
uh,
1880
00:48:06.160 --> 00:48:08.220
unemployment and tracing it back to AI,
1881
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:08.510
right?
1882
00:48:08.670 --> 00:48:11.610
I don't know what sort of indices there are available right now that we can,
1883
00:48:12.160 --> 00:48:12.300
uh,
1884
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:12.940
sort of
1885
00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:16.150
straightforwardly point to and be like this is because of AI,
1886
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:17.150
this is displacement.
1887
00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:19.860
Once we have more insight from these sort of metrics,
1888
00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:22.150
then I think we can come to a conclusion
1889
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:24.570
on when UBI should start to be instated,
1890
00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:27.670
and I do think that there are sort of like incrementalist policies,
1891
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:28.020
right?
1892
00:48:28.470 --> 00:48:28.700
Um,
1893
00:48:28.790 --> 00:48:30.940
you could do things like wage insurance,
1894
00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:31.220
right?
1895
00:48:31.310 --> 00:48:32.660
So if somebody loses their job,
1896
00:48:32.910 --> 00:48:34.370
they made 80K a year,
1897
00:48:34.470 --> 00:48:37.960
and they have to go get another job because their job was displaced by AI
1898
00:48:38.350 --> 00:48:40.290
and they have to get a job that's like 50K a year,
1899
00:48:40.430 --> 00:48:40.860
then you could,
1900
00:48:40.910 --> 00:48:41.100
you know,
1901
00:48:41.270 --> 00:48:41.930
compensate,
1902
00:48:42.190 --> 00:48:43.330
like the government could compensate,
1903
00:48:43.470 --> 00:48:43.850
uh.
1904
00:48:44.430 --> 00:48:46.300
Those people for like the amount that they lost,
1905
00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:46.620
right?
1906
00:48:46.740 --> 00:48:46.850
Um,
1907
00:48:47.060 --> 00:48:48.850
so you are you actually agreeing that universal
1908
00:48:48.850 --> 00:48:51.400
basic income will become necessary as they think
1909
00:48:51.700 --> 00:48:52.380
labor because I'm,
1910
00:48:52.420 --> 00:48:53.050
I'm with you then,
1911
00:48:53.220 --> 00:48:53.370
yeah,
1912
00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:53.800
yeah,
1913
00:48:53.830 --> 00:48:53.880
yeah,
1914
00:48:54.020 --> 00:48:54.130
I,
1915
00:48:54.220 --> 00:48:54.930
I think so.
1916
00:48:54.950 --> 00:48:55.750
I think right now,
1917
00:48:55.770 --> 00:48:56.080
no.
1918
00:48:56.140 --> 00:48:56.830
So maybe you,
1919
00:48:56.980 --> 00:48:58.240
you and I disagree on the time frame,
1920
00:48:58.460 --> 00:48:58.690
right?
1921
00:48:58.950 --> 00:49:00.840
So you would you say that you agree that right now
1922
00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:01.450
is the time?
1923
00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:02.210
I would say yes.
1924
00:49:02.270 --> 00:49:02.740
And here's,
1925
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:04.090
here's one of the arguments I would make.
1926
00:49:04.300 --> 00:49:06.730
Our data was used to create these models.
1927
00:49:06.870 --> 00:49:09.970
Our data is currently being sold and resold for several $100 billion.
1928
00:49:10.750 --> 00:49:11.420
a year.
1929
00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:12.900
And one fun thing is that,
1930
00:49:13.030 --> 00:49:13.180
you know,
1931
00:49:13.230 --> 00:49:13.780
I asked like,
1932
00:49:13.870 --> 00:49:14.220
hey,
1933
00:49:14.470 --> 00:49:16.340
which American has gotten paid for their data?
1934
00:49:16.710 --> 00:49:19.540
And most Americans have not gotten paid anything for their data.
1935
00:49:19.630 --> 00:49:21.490
I am probably the only person in the circle
1936
00:49:21.710 --> 00:49:23.360
who actually did get paid for their data,
1937
00:49:23.460 --> 00:49:24.090
kind of,
1938
00:49:24.590 --> 00:49:24.900
um,
1939
00:49:25.070 --> 00:49:25.170
in,
1940
00:49:25.310 --> 00:49:28.500
in that I got a note from the publisher of one of my books saying,
1941
00:49:28.590 --> 00:49:29.060
hey,
1942
00:49:29.310 --> 00:49:31.260
AI wants to eat your book and,
1943
00:49:31.350 --> 00:49:31.570
and,
1944
00:49:31.590 --> 00:49:32.100
uh,
1945
00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:33.370
ingest its
1946
00:49:33.790 --> 00:49:35.780
ideas and it will pay you.
1947
00:49:36.210 --> 00:49:36.360
Um,
1948
00:49:36.490 --> 00:49:38.270
$2500 for the privilege.
1949
00:49:38.390 --> 00:49:38.640
Now,
1950
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:40.900
imagine if every American got a message like that,
1951
00:49:40.930 --> 00:49:41.240
being like,
1952
00:49:41.330 --> 00:49:41.480
hey,
1953
00:49:41.570 --> 00:49:44.650
your data got used to form these $1 trillion
1954
00:49:45.690 --> 00:49:46.750
models and companies,
1955
00:49:46.810 --> 00:49:49.400
and you are now going to get a certain amount of money back,
1956
00:49:49.690 --> 00:49:49.880
um,
1957
00:49:50.120 --> 00:49:50.630
for that.
1958
00:49:50.690 --> 00:49:52.720
I think that would go over great with the American.
1959
00:49:52.850 --> 00:49:53.070
People,
1960
00:49:53.160 --> 00:49:54.320
the majority of Americans are for it,
1961
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:58.230
but I also think it's going to become increasingly common sense and necessary
1962
00:49:58.590 --> 00:50:01.020
because more and more Americans are going to get kicked to the curb.
1963
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.430
Yeah,
1964
00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:04.190
do you think the frontier models should be voted out with the majority?
1965
00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:04.900
Thank you so much.
1966
00:50:05.080 --> 00:50:05.270
Thank you.
1967
00:50:05.290 --> 00:50:05.890
It's great to meet you.
1968
00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:06.890
Great to meet you too.
1969
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:09.470
321.
1970
00:50:12.020 --> 00:50:12.290
How are you?
1971
00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:12.700
Hello.
1972
00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:13.210
Good.
1973
00:50:13.300 --> 00:50:14.010
I like your shirt.
1974
00:50:14.140 --> 00:50:14.490
Thank you.
1975
00:50:14.700 --> 00:50:15.570
My name's Jason.
1976
00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:18.510
I am a serial entrepreneurial failure,
1977
00:50:18.620 --> 00:50:19.860
but I haven't given up yet,
1978
00:50:20.300 --> 00:50:20.960
so.
1979
00:50:21.720 --> 00:50:24.190
I can come up with technical differentiators in my sleep,
1980
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:24.630
but I'm,
1981
00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:27.730
I suck at market research and execute and go to market.
1982
00:50:28.080 --> 00:50:29.730
So my two cents for you,
1983
00:50:30.120 --> 00:50:30.350
um,
1984
00:50:30.640 --> 00:50:32.830
would be to find a co-founder or teammate,
1985
00:50:33.120 --> 00:50:33.310
um,
1986
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:34.210
who has the,
1987
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:38.020
the strengths that would complement you because virtually none of us
1988
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:39.180
can
1989
00:50:39.390 --> 00:50:40.270
is great at everything.
1990
00:50:40.720 --> 00:50:43.070
I certainly would include myself in that and I'm applying.
1991
00:50:43.200 --> 00:50:45.410
Accelerate is largely to find a co-founder.
1992
00:50:45.580 --> 00:50:46.040
So,
1993
00:50:47.020 --> 00:50:47.210
OK,
1994
00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:47.510
cool.
1995
00:50:47.660 --> 00:50:47.890
Uh,
1996
00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:49.490
confirming side from the universe.
1997
00:50:49.580 --> 00:50:49.980
I was like
1998
00:50:50.180 --> 00:50:50.450
thank you.
1999
00:50:50.510 --> 00:50:52.770
And I even have a conversational AI chatbot
2000
00:50:52.770 --> 00:50:54.770
that lets you talk to historical figures and build
2001
00:50:54.770 --> 00:50:57.330
relationships with them like Marcus Aurelius or von
2002
00:50:57.330 --> 00:50:59.360
Rumi or Long Champa or whoever you want.
2003
00:50:59.420 --> 00:51:00.010
So yes,
2004
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:00.700
what's it called,
2005
00:51:00.740 --> 00:51:01.300
the chatbot?
2006
00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:02.610
It's called Arovi.
2007
00:51:03.020 --> 00:51:04.530
A I A R O V I.
2008
00:51:05.170 --> 00:51:06.710
Made up words have better trademarks.
2009
00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:09.340
I'm not a diametrically opposed to this claim.
2010
00:51:09.450 --> 00:51:10.800
I hope we have UBI.
2011
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:16.030
And the main reason for that is work has a bad reputation for many reasons.
2012
00:51:16.240 --> 00:51:17.990
People are doing soul sucking,
2013
00:51:18.040 --> 00:51:20.120
menial tasks that don't enrich them,
2014
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.460
what David Graber calls bullshit jobs.
2015
00:51:22.780 --> 00:51:23.130
Yeah,
2016
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:24.030
yeah.
2017
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:24.940
And
2018
00:51:25.120 --> 00:51:29.720
a lot of the jobs that AI can automate are the jobs that nobody wants to do.
2019
00:51:30.120 --> 00:51:32.740
People dress up in hazmat suits and go to toxic
2020
00:51:33.040 --> 00:51:33.910
waste dumps.
2021
00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:35.090
It's a legal risk.
2022
00:51:35.260 --> 00:51:36.170
Nobody wants to do it.
2023
00:51:36.260 --> 00:51:36.970
AI can,
2024
00:51:37.100 --> 00:51:38.610
you can have that robot in there,
2025
00:51:38.860 --> 00:51:38.930
yeah,
2026
00:51:39.060 --> 00:51:39.170
yeah,
2027
00:51:39.540 --> 00:51:40.610
get that drone in there.
2028
00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:42.850
The other thing kind of related to other,
2029
00:51:42.980 --> 00:51:43.210
I mean,
2030
00:51:43.260 --> 00:51:44.810
all your four points are kind of related,
2031
00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:45.200
but
2032
00:51:45.460 --> 00:51:47.530
productivity gains come later.
2033
00:51:47.700 --> 00:51:50.160
We don't know what those productivity gains are going to be.
2034
00:51:50.660 --> 00:51:52.680
So the new jobs that come through,
2035
00:51:52.900 --> 00:51:55.250
we don't know what those are going to look like yet.
2036
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:55.560
You know,
2037
00:51:55.620 --> 00:51:55.760
the,
2038
00:51:55.890 --> 00:51:58.010
the End of Work is a book you're familiar with,
2039
00:51:58.170 --> 00:51:58.400
right?
2040
00:51:58.730 --> 00:52:01.150
But there was more office work that was created
2041
00:52:01.170 --> 00:52:03.920
through automation and internet that had existed before.
2042
00:52:04.010 --> 00:52:04.640
And the last point,
2043
00:52:04.700 --> 00:52:06.220
and then I'm just interested in your thoughts,
2044
00:52:06.330 --> 00:52:09.050
I would really like it if we stopped focusing on growth,
2045
00:52:09.290 --> 00:52:09.520
you know,
2046
00:52:09.690 --> 00:52:13.470
focus more on growth happiness products like Bhutan does.
2047
00:52:13.730 --> 00:52:16.990
And if you look at pictures of John Rockefeller and Um,
2048
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:19.190
Gy and even Elon Musk,
2049
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.330
they don't look like happy individuals.
2050
00:52:21.560 --> 00:52:24.000
So if our basic survival needs are taken care of,
2051
00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:26.100
we can focus on work that is meaningful,
2052
00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:28.830
and they'll probably be more productive for the economy as well.
2053
00:52:29.080 --> 00:52:29.470
Jason,
2054
00:52:29.640 --> 00:52:29.830
um,
2055
00:52:30.080 --> 00:52:31.110
I love where you're going with this,
2056
00:52:31.200 --> 00:52:31.850
so check it out.
2057
00:52:32.120 --> 00:52:34.280
American GDP as we're sitting together
2058
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:37.380
is around $84,000 per person.
2059
00:52:38.060 --> 00:52:39.000
And AI,
2060
00:52:39.100 --> 00:52:40.550
no matter what anyone thinks,
2061
00:52:40.620 --> 00:52:41.360
is going to,
2062
00:52:41.580 --> 00:52:41.690
uh,
2063
00:52:41.900 --> 00:52:43.000
have that number go up
2064
00:52:43.180 --> 00:52:45.250
substantially over the coming seasons.
2065
00:52:45.340 --> 00:52:46.490
I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.
2066
00:52:46.560 --> 00:52:46.690
I mean,
2067
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:48.280
you guys are all AI optimists.
2068
00:52:48.860 --> 00:52:49.240
So,
2069
00:52:49.540 --> 00:52:51.350
so let's say that number goes to,
2070
00:52:51.650 --> 00:52:51.850
um,
2071
00:52:51.980 --> 00:52:53.050
100,000 a head.
2072
00:52:53.220 --> 00:52:53.400
Heck,
2073
00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:53.970
you could even go.
2074
00:52:54.120 --> 00:52:54.300
Further,
2075
00:52:54.430 --> 00:52:56.080
like $120,000 a head.
2076
00:52:56.470 --> 00:52:57.610
At what point
2077
00:52:57.790 --> 00:52:59.140
do you start looking around and saying,
2078
00:52:59.190 --> 00:52:59.700
you know what,
2079
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.050
we should distribute some of that value to
2080
00:53:02.270 --> 00:53:02.670
like the,
2081
00:53:02.830 --> 00:53:03.300
the mom,
2082
00:53:03.430 --> 00:53:03.750
the,
2083
00:53:03.950 --> 00:53:04.060
uh,
2084
00:53:04.190 --> 00:53:05.170
displaced worker,
2085
00:53:05.190 --> 00:53:06.340
or the non-displaced worker,
2086
00:53:06.430 --> 00:53:08.090
like the guy who's in the
2087
00:53:08.350 --> 00:53:09.890
one third of the
2088
00:53:10.590 --> 00:53:14.010
men in America who aren't attached to the workforce in any way.
2089
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:14.630
Uh,
2090
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:16.090
and in my opinion,
2091
00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:17.670
the sooner we do this,
2092
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:18.550
the better.
2093
00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:18.830
Uh,
2094
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.090
and I compare civilization
2095
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:22.800
to toothpaste in a tube
2096
00:53:23.160 --> 00:53:25.070
where like after you squeeze it out of the tube,
2097
00:53:25.170 --> 00:53:26.300
you can't get it back in.
2098
00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:28.580
There's something called trust
2099
00:53:29.220 --> 00:53:30.280
and as trust,
2100
00:53:30.530 --> 00:53:30.870
uh,
2101
00:53:31.250 --> 00:53:33.180
corrodes and deteriorates,
2102
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:33.670
um,
2103
00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:35.090
we start to,
2104
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:35.480
um,
2105
00:53:35.720 --> 00:53:36.780
turn on each other,
2106
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:37.110
uh,
2107
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:38.310
and get nasty,
2108
00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:38.650
uh,
2109
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:39.790
and more scarcity-minded.
2110
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:40.190
So the,
2111
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:40.510
the,
2112
00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:41.290
the two.
2113
00:53:41.730 --> 00:53:42.300
Um,
2114
00:53:42.640 --> 00:53:43.300
sides of the,
2115
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:43.630
uh,
2116
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.830
human psyche
2117
00:53:45.160 --> 00:53:46.710
are scarcity and abundance,
2118
00:53:47.160 --> 00:53:52.070
and right now scarcity is increasingly winning in a country where 57% of Americans
2119
00:53:52.070 --> 00:53:55.580
are paycheck to paycheck and they don't have $200 or $500 in savings.
2120
00:53:55.880 --> 00:53:56.850
So the only
2121
00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:58.430
silver lining in this era,
2122
00:53:58.450 --> 00:53:58.950
in my opinion,
2123
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:02.060
is that AI is going to generate enough value where you can actually try and,
2124
00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:02.670
um,
2125
00:54:02.720 --> 00:54:04.510
spread the value and push us to abundance.
2126
00:54:04.570 --> 00:54:05.500
So my question is,
2127
00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:06.340
in this
2128
00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:08.330
voted out for the majority.
2129
00:54:08.600 --> 00:54:09.170
Such a pleasure.
2130
00:54:10.240 --> 00:54:10.790
Arovi.
2131
00:54:11.080 --> 00:54:11.550
AI.
2132
00:54:12.410 --> 00:54:13.850
If you'd like to be the next debater,
2133
00:54:14.020 --> 00:54:17.370
please get to the chair in 321.
2134
00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:20.530
Look at that,
2135
00:54:20.550 --> 00:54:20.770
Damien,
2136
00:54:20.830 --> 00:54:21.860
you won that one easily.
2137
00:54:21.910 --> 00:54:22.210
Yeah.
2138
00:54:22.710 --> 00:54:24.610
So basically with universal basic income,
2139
00:54:24.670 --> 00:54:25.980
take after Damian Lillard,
2140
00:54:26.150 --> 00:54:26.560
yeah,
2141
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:27.430
yeah.
2142
00:54:28.350 --> 00:54:31.050
First thing with universal basic income that I would say is
2143
00:54:31.310 --> 00:54:33.420
it doesn't seem mathematically feasible
2144
00:54:33.670 --> 00:54:34.490
if you were to give,
2145
00:54:34.640 --> 00:54:37.460
let's say 200 million Americans $1000 each,
2146
00:54:37.550 --> 00:54:37.740
uh,
2147
00:54:37.910 --> 00:54:38.650
that would be,
2148
00:54:38.900 --> 00:54:38.950
uh,
2149
00:54:39.070 --> 00:54:40.300
if you do that every 12,
2150
00:54:40.430 --> 00:54:41.100
every month,
2151
00:54:41.350 --> 00:54:45.180
that would be $2 trillion out of our $4 trillion federal tax revenue,
2152
00:54:45.350 --> 00:54:45.650
so.
2153
00:54:46.370 --> 00:54:47.350
Using that
2154
00:54:47.570 --> 00:54:50.560
just roughly that would take away from things like Social Security,
2155
00:54:50.610 --> 00:54:51.750
that would take away from
2156
00:54:51.970 --> 00:54:54.280
uh spending in places that we really need
2157
00:54:54.530 --> 00:54:55.630
and it's
2158
00:54:55.930 --> 00:54:58.400
just not mathematically feasible and not only that,
2159
00:54:58.610 --> 00:54:59.910
but I believe more in a
2160
00:55:00.120 --> 00:55:02.390
universal basic services model where
2161
00:55:02.730 --> 00:55:05.400
instead of an income that's directly given to people,
2162
00:55:05.450 --> 00:55:05.880
it's
2163
00:55:06.130 --> 00:55:08.140
put into things like infrastructure,
2164
00:55:08.330 --> 00:55:09.200
high-speed rail,
2165
00:55:09.370 --> 00:55:09.750
um.
2166
00:55:10.150 --> 00:55:10.370
You know,
2167
00:55:10.540 --> 00:55:12.680
climate crisis prediction for the government and
2168
00:55:12.980 --> 00:55:15.410
sovereign wealth funds even can also contribute to those things.
2169
00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:16.360
I'd say that's why,
2170
00:55:16.660 --> 00:55:16.850
you know,
2171
00:55:17.020 --> 00:55:19.280
universal basic income doesn't seem feasible
2172
00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:19.700
to me.
2173
00:55:19.900 --> 00:55:20.290
Damien,
2174
00:55:20.420 --> 00:55:20.490
I,
2175
00:55:20.620 --> 00:55:23.130
I appreciate both of these points a great deal.
2176
00:55:23.500 --> 00:55:24.290
So first,
2177
00:55:24.540 --> 00:55:27.170
when someone says universal basic services,
2178
00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:28.170
I'm not opposed to it at all.
2179
00:55:28.710 --> 00:55:29.700
Like if someone's like,
2180
00:55:29.790 --> 00:55:30.260
hey,
2181
00:55:30.510 --> 00:55:32.050
we're going to invest in,
2182
00:55:32.410 --> 00:55:32.580
uh,
2183
00:55:32.630 --> 00:55:33.250
you know,
2184
00:55:33.850 --> 00:55:34.260
education,
2185
00:55:34.470 --> 00:55:35.010
housing,
2186
00:55:35.150 --> 00:55:35.700
healthcare,
2187
00:55:35.870 --> 00:55:36.620
transportation,
2188
00:55:36.710 --> 00:55:37.850
like all those things,
2189
00:55:38.350 --> 00:55:39.180
sounds great to me.
2190
00:55:39.350 --> 00:55:41.300
One issue though in America is we're really bad
2191
00:55:41.300 --> 00:55:44.390
at actually delivering value along any of those dimensions,
2192
00:55:44.470 --> 00:55:46.300
and it's often not a monetary thing.
2193
00:55:46.820 --> 00:55:48.160
I live in New York City
2194
00:55:48.340 --> 00:55:48.900
and
2195
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:50.450
as a community,
2196
00:55:50.580 --> 00:55:51.870
New York City is spending
2197
00:55:52.140 --> 00:55:55.270
something like $40,000 per student in the school system,
2198
00:55:55.380 --> 00:55:56.730
which means if you had 30 students,
2199
00:55:56.780 --> 00:55:58.210
you're spending $1.2 million
2200
00:55:58.420 --> 00:56:00.590
which must mean that our kids are getting a great education,
2201
00:56:00.660 --> 00:56:00.770
right?
2202
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:00.970
Like,
2203
00:56:01.060 --> 00:56:01.180
no,
2204
00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:01.560
they're not.
2205
00:56:01.580 --> 00:56:02.510
Like their results are terrible.
2206
00:56:02.620 --> 00:56:03.170
So,
2207
00:56:03.620 --> 00:56:03.920
so,
2208
00:56:04.060 --> 00:56:05.290
so one of the things that's happening.
2209
00:56:05.770 --> 00:56:08.360
Is that if someone says universal basic services,
2210
00:56:08.450 --> 00:56:08.670
what,
2211
00:56:08.690 --> 00:56:10.430
what that often is
2212
00:56:10.570 --> 00:56:13.110
um interposing between the value and the people
2213
00:56:13.290 --> 00:56:15.750
is these dysfunctional institutions that then say like,
2214
00:56:15.770 --> 00:56:15.920
no,
2215
00:56:16.040 --> 00:56:16.160
no,
2216
00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:17.560
we'll distribute the goods
2217
00:56:17.730 --> 00:56:19.090
and then the goods get stuck.
2218
00:56:19.490 --> 00:56:19.770
So that,
2219
00:56:19.790 --> 00:56:23.320
that's one thing like I'm not against universal basic services if we were good at it.
2220
00:56:23.730 --> 00:56:23.880
Um,
2221
00:56:24.050 --> 00:56:24.500
but like I,
2222
00:56:24.570 --> 00:56:25.640
I don't think we're great at it.
2223
00:56:25.730 --> 00:56:29.000
The other point I want to address is like the mathematical objection.
2224
00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:29.610
Um,
2225
00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:30.330
to UBI,
2226
00:56:30.460 --> 00:56:33.290
so GDP per head is 84,000 a head.
2227
00:56:33.340 --> 00:56:34.690
It's gonna go to 100,000 a head.
2228
00:56:34.820 --> 00:56:34.930
Like,
2229
00:56:35.140 --> 00:56:36.570
so at some point you have to look around and say,
2230
00:56:36.620 --> 00:56:36.750
OK,
2231
00:56:36.860 --> 00:56:37.850
where's the value going
2232
00:56:38.100 --> 00:56:38.200
now?
2233
00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:40.100
You are 100% correct about the,
2234
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:42.320
the scope and the magnitude of the current federal budget,
2235
00:56:42.460 --> 00:56:43.040
and there's a,
2236
00:56:43.100 --> 00:56:43.770
a deficit,
2237
00:56:43.940 --> 00:56:45.450
and I'm not unmindful of these things.
2238
00:56:45.620 --> 00:56:49.490
Elon Musk has said that a combination of AI and robotics are going to produce so much.
2239
00:56:49.620 --> 00:56:50.110
Growth
2240
00:56:50.290 --> 00:56:53.790
and so much value that some of the concerns we're talking about
2241
00:56:54.010 --> 00:56:57.470
um are going to become less important in the coming years
2242
00:56:57.730 --> 00:57:00.350
um and I think directionally he's correct in that
2243
00:57:00.350 --> 00:57:02.910
if you have AI and robots doing enough work
2244
00:57:03.050 --> 00:57:05.320
there's gonna be enough top line value to go around.
2245
00:57:05.370 --> 00:57:07.630
The question is how does the top line value actually
2246
00:57:07.780 --> 00:57:09.600
filter to the average person.
2247
00:57:10.020 --> 00:57:12.330
But if you were to want to try and address this,
2248
00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:13.610
so in terms of like the,
2249
00:57:13.660 --> 00:57:14.580
the cost of the UBI,
2250
00:57:14.600 --> 00:57:15.820
I just want to make a few points.
2251
00:57:16.060 --> 00:57:17.000
Number 1 is
2252
00:57:17.300 --> 00:57:20.450
about half of Americans are currently receiving government benefits in some form,
2253
00:57:20.580 --> 00:57:22.570
so it's not dollar for dollar necessarily that
2254
00:57:22.570 --> 00:57:24.440
all of the money you're talking about is,
2255
00:57:24.620 --> 00:57:25.530
is new spend.
2256
00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:26.330
Number 2,
2257
00:57:26.420 --> 00:57:28.090
you get a lot of the value back
2258
00:57:28.340 --> 00:57:30.330
in better health outcomes,
2259
00:57:30.650 --> 00:57:31.610
education outcomes,
2260
00:57:31.740 --> 00:57:32.650
homelessness,
2261
00:57:32.980 --> 00:57:33.090
uh,
2262
00:57:33.180 --> 00:57:34.130
incarceration.
2263
00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:36.620
Like if someone hits our institutions,
2264
00:57:36.860 --> 00:57:38.180
it's extraordinarily costly,
2265
00:57:38.220 --> 00:57:39.410
and I think everyone knows what I'm talking about.
2266
00:57:40.150 --> 00:57:42.380
So if you invest it in people,
2267
00:57:42.510 --> 00:57:44.140
you end up getting a lot of the money back and you know,
2268
00:57:44.160 --> 00:57:46.380
one of the biggest returns would be entrepreneurship
2269
00:57:46.750 --> 00:57:50.170
because folks who are getting a certain amount of money into their hands
2270
00:57:50.350 --> 00:57:50.860
would then say,
2271
00:57:50.910 --> 00:57:51.180
OK,
2272
00:57:51.310 --> 00:57:54.570
like maybe I can actually take a risk and have uh something
2273
00:57:54.810 --> 00:57:55.730
of a cushion.
2274
00:57:55.990 --> 00:57:56.140
Um,
2275
00:57:56.310 --> 00:57:56.700
absolutely,
2276
00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:57.140
absolutely,
2277
00:57:57.190 --> 00:57:57.420
and I,
2278
00:57:57.470 --> 00:57:58.590
and I certainly agree with you,
2279
00:57:58.630 --> 00:58:01.610
and I think the core of the issue that we're getting to is really
2280
00:58:01.870 --> 00:58:05.140
we're having less of a discussion about universal basic income and
2281
00:58:05.140 --> 00:58:09.020
more about how do we regulate wealth distribution throughout the country.
2282
00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:12.250
And there's more options than universal basic income,
2283
00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:13.240
and I think that
2284
00:58:13.460 --> 00:58:15.810
it's oftentimes it's used as a scapegoat.
2285
00:58:15.860 --> 00:58:17.610
There's like the cultural hegemony,
2286
00:58:17.700 --> 00:58:18.170
hegemony,
2287
00:58:18.260 --> 00:58:18.450
whatever,
2288
00:58:18.540 --> 00:58:19.450
however you pronounce it.
2289
00:58:19.750 --> 00:58:20.040
Um,
2290
00:58:20.240 --> 00:58:20.770
where
2291
00:58:20.990 --> 00:58:22.010
that's part of like
2292
00:58:22.190 --> 00:58:26.330
what keeps us frustrated and distracted and unable to address these issues is
2293
00:58:26.590 --> 00:58:26.940
throwing up.
2294
00:58:27.030 --> 00:58:27.140
Well,
2295
00:58:27.190 --> 00:58:27.530
we need,
2296
00:58:27.630 --> 00:58:27.820
um,
2297
00:58:27.950 --> 00:58:28.060
you know,
2298
00:58:28.110 --> 00:58:31.180
it's a false dichotomy like the universal basic income versus,
2299
00:58:31.430 --> 00:58:31.660
uh,
2300
00:58:31.870 --> 00:58:32.060
you know,
2301
00:58:32.230 --> 00:58:33.090
something else.
2302
00:58:33.270 --> 00:58:34.370
There are many options.
2303
00:58:34.510 --> 00:58:34.720
Yeah,
2304
00:58:34.870 --> 00:58:35.220
so I,
2305
00:58:35.310 --> 00:58:35.880
I just want
2306
00:58:36.670 --> 00:58:37.260
that by the majority,
2307
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:37.980
but I'll let you finish your,
2308
00:58:38.070 --> 00:58:38.140
yeah,
2309
00:58:38.230 --> 00:58:38.300
yeah,
2310
00:58:38.650 --> 00:58:38.820
let's say,
2311
00:58:38.950 --> 00:58:39.500
say two things.
2312
00:58:39.590 --> 00:58:43.450
So if this money were to come into the hands of the average American household,
2313
00:58:43.670 --> 00:58:45.260
virtually all of it would get spent.
2314
00:58:45.700 --> 00:58:48.090
And circulated at local businesses,
2315
00:58:48.170 --> 00:58:48.410
uh,
2316
00:58:48.610 --> 00:58:49.890
throughout their community.
2317
00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:52.130
And so the Roosevelt Institute did a study as to
2318
00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:55.900
what universal basic income of approximately $1000 a month a head
2319
00:58:56.210 --> 00:58:56.760
would do,
2320
00:58:56.780 --> 00:58:57.420
and it would
2321
00:58:57.850 --> 00:58:59.460
increase the size of the economy
2322
00:58:59.660 --> 00:59:00.840
in perpetuity
2323
00:59:01.050 --> 00:59:02.450
by about 12%,
2324
00:59:02.620 --> 00:59:02.770
uh,
2325
00:59:02.860 --> 00:59:03.760
and create,
2326
00:59:04.040 --> 00:59:04.510
um,
2327
00:59:04.740 --> 00:59:05.570
hundreds of thousands,
2328
00:59:05.620 --> 00:59:07.360
even millions of new jobs because again,
2329
00:59:07.390 --> 00:59:08.540
like every local restaurant,
2330
00:59:08.620 --> 00:59:09.680
every local garage,
2331
00:59:09.820 --> 00:59:10.720
every local like,
2332
00:59:10.740 --> 00:59:11.080
uh,
2333
00:59:11.490 --> 00:59:11.780
Um,
2334
00:59:11.970 --> 00:59:12.280
you know,
2335
00:59:12.530 --> 00:59:13.280
tutoring service,
2336
00:59:13.370 --> 00:59:14.670
like all I would have
2337
00:59:14.930 --> 00:59:15.430
more
2338
00:59:15.570 --> 00:59:16.280
value
2339
00:59:16.490 --> 00:59:18.320
and so the money doesn't disappear,
2340
00:59:18.530 --> 00:59:18.720
it,
2341
00:59:18.810 --> 00:59:20.080
it stays in the community.
2342
00:59:20.170 --> 00:59:22.350
The second thing is that America is the only
2343
00:59:22.370 --> 00:59:24.560
major industrialized economy and one of the only.
2344
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:25.270
Uh,
2345
00:59:25.520 --> 00:59:28.310
countries in the world that doesn't have something called a value added tax
2346
00:59:28.560 --> 00:59:30.870
in large part because our companies are expert at
2347
00:59:30.870 --> 00:59:32.880
making sure they don't pay a lot of taxes,
2348
00:59:33.200 --> 00:59:33.550
so the,
2349
00:59:33.600 --> 00:59:35.590
the major problem we're having in American life
2350
00:59:35.590 --> 00:59:37.490
is that all this value is getting generated
2351
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:38.270
and,
2352
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:38.580
uh,
2353
00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:39.660
the big winners can,
2354
00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:39.910
uh,
2355
00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:41.740
essentially just gain their way out of it.
2356
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:43.990
And so if you solve for that,
2357
00:59:44.120 --> 00:59:47.630
then all of a sudden the false scarcity in my opinion is false because.
2358
00:59:47.710 --> 00:59:48.290
We are the richest,
2359
00:59:48.340 --> 00:59:50.420
most advanced society in the history of the world,
2360
00:59:50.810 --> 00:59:52.720
economy of $31 trillion a year.
2361
00:59:52.900 --> 00:59:54.420
So if someone pleads poverty
2362
00:59:54.660 --> 00:59:56.010
in terms of our ability to,
2363
00:59:56.180 --> 00:59:58.400
to do something like a UBI that would again
2364
00:59:58.640 --> 00:59:59.560
grow the economy,
2365
00:59:59.700 --> 00:59:59.810
uh,
2366
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:02.300
in perpetuity and it would be in our hands,
2367
01:00:02.380 --> 01:00:03.170
I'd look at it and be like,
2368
01:00:03.290 --> 01:00:03.570
look,
2369
01:00:03.930 --> 01:00:05.290
like mathematically you're wrong,
2370
01:00:05.420 --> 01:00:05.920
but also,
2371
01:00:06.220 --> 01:00:06.290
uh,
2372
01:00:06.460 --> 01:00:08.810
we spent $4 trillion on the financial bailout.
2373
01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:10.320
We spent $4 trillion.
2374
01:00:10.540 --> 01:00:11.320
On COVID,
2375
01:00:11.540 --> 01:00:12.130
like when,
2376
01:00:12.220 --> 01:00:13.170
whenever there's like,
2377
01:00:13.300 --> 01:00:13.720
frankly,
2378
01:00:13.740 --> 01:00:15.370
like a corporate need,
2379
01:00:15.860 --> 01:00:16.780
we find the money.
2380
01:00:17.100 --> 01:00:17.730
You know what I mean?
2381
01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:17.940
And,
2382
01:00:18.020 --> 01:00:18.190
and,
2383
01:00:18.220 --> 01:00:19.280
and I would say that
2384
01:00:19.540 --> 01:00:20.430
at this point,
2385
01:00:20.660 --> 01:00:20.730
uh,
2386
01:00:20.820 --> 01:00:22.730
the human need is just as clear.
2387
01:00:23.610 --> 01:00:24.200
I,
2388
01:00:24.260 --> 01:00:24.340
I agree.
2389
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:25.000
We do have to stop here.
2390
01:00:25.050 --> 01:00:25.550
Thank you.
2391
01:00:26.900 --> 01:00:27.220
Thank you.
2392
01:00:27.310 --> 01:00:27.690
Appreciate it.
2393
01:00:28.580 --> 01:00:30.850
321.
2394
01:00:32.620 --> 01:00:33.010
Hey there.
2395
01:00:33.130 --> 01:00:33.570
Hello,
2396
01:00:33.700 --> 01:00:34.250
how are you?
2397
01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:34.700
How are you?
2398
01:00:34.790 --> 01:00:35.490
It's great to meet you.
2399
01:00:35.580 --> 01:00:35.940
Good.
2400
01:00:36.220 --> 01:00:36.760
I'm doing good.
2401
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:38.050
I'll tell you a little bit about myself.
2402
01:00:38.150 --> 01:00:38.450
Please do.
2403
01:00:38.620 --> 01:00:39.170
My name's Sean.
2404
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:41.050
I'm 41 year old single father.
2405
01:00:41.140 --> 01:00:43.250
I was in an industry that you touched on before,
2406
01:00:43.420 --> 01:00:44.060
such as insurance,
2407
01:00:44.180 --> 01:00:45.640
so I was an underwriting analyst for,
2408
01:00:45.740 --> 01:00:45.850
uh,
2409
01:00:45.980 --> 01:00:46.680
an insurance company.
2410
01:00:46.740 --> 01:00:47.930
I'm starting a little startup,
2411
01:00:48.050 --> 01:00:48.290
um,
2412
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:51.380
and I also run a video game community for dads who play video games.
2413
01:00:51.410 --> 01:00:52.170
It's kind of what I do.
2414
01:00:52.290 --> 01:00:52.970
I'm a gamer,
2415
01:00:53.500 --> 01:00:53.760
but.
2416
01:00:53.870 --> 01:00:54.700
Touching on UBI,
2417
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:56.670
your statement assumes that
2418
01:00:56.990 --> 01:00:58.980
America doesn't already need UBI,
2419
01:00:59.150 --> 01:01:02.220
which I would assume you agree that we do need UBI
2420
01:01:02.510 --> 01:01:02.820
already.
2421
01:01:02.910 --> 01:01:03.100
I mean,
2422
01:01:03.150 --> 01:01:03.180
I,
2423
01:01:03.350 --> 01:01:05.420
I did campaign on UBI now,
2424
01:01:05.590 --> 01:01:05.820
um,
2425
01:01:06.070 --> 01:01:06.820
6 years ago,
2426
01:01:06.990 --> 01:01:08.440
so I thought we needed it then,
2427
01:01:08.670 --> 01:01:10.500
and I wish we had implemented it.
2428
01:01:10.590 --> 01:01:11.930
I wish that I had
2429
01:01:12.270 --> 01:01:13.740
won and gotten my way,
2430
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:14.090
and then,
2431
01:01:14.190 --> 01:01:14.260
uh,
2432
01:01:14.430 --> 01:01:14.970
you know.
2433
01:01:15.170 --> 01:01:16.400
We could be doing this from the White House.
2434
01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:16.690
Yeah,
2435
01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:16.990
no,
2436
01:01:17.080 --> 01:01:17.440
of course,
2437
01:01:17.520 --> 01:01:19.390
and I flew into LA and the first thing,
2438
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:20.560
and you could see it on the streets,
2439
01:01:20.680 --> 01:01:21.310
no offense to LA,
2440
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.140
but you can see it on the streets that
2441
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:24.580
UBI is needed.
2442
01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:27.660
Well before AI people were losing their jobs or
2443
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:28.370
even
2444
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.830
people who were working full time weren't able to afford their rent
2445
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:31.860
and were going homeless,
2446
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:32.860
and it's just,
2447
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:34.350
it's prominent everywhere.
2448
01:01:34.530 --> 01:01:34.710
Sean,
2449
01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:35.550
I love this so much.
2450
01:01:35.630 --> 01:01:35.950
You're like,
2451
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:36.350
hey.
2452
01:01:36.950 --> 01:01:39.820
It's not universal basic income will become necessary.
2453
01:01:39.990 --> 01:01:42.030
It's that it is necessary and it was necessary.
2454
01:01:42.230 --> 01:01:42.300
Yeah,
2455
01:01:42.350 --> 01:01:44.460
it's already necessary and yes,
2456
01:01:46.070 --> 01:01:46.900
yeah,
2457
01:01:47.190 --> 01:01:48.320
I agree.
2458
01:01:49.750 --> 01:01:51.500
And I also don't agree with some of the
2459
01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:54.580
other statements that we can't find funding for it because
2460
01:01:54.910 --> 01:01:57.220
because we did with the stimulus checks in 2020,
2461
01:01:57.250 --> 01:01:58.780
we did with the stimulus checks in 2021.
2462
01:01:58.910 --> 01:01:59.630
So we can put
2463
01:02:00.030 --> 01:02:00.380
the money,
2464
01:02:00.550 --> 01:02:01.050
the money.
2465
01:02:01.980 --> 01:02:02.870
The money's there,
2466
01:02:03.370 --> 01:02:03.880
but
2467
01:02:05.410 --> 01:02:06.280
we should be able to do this.
2468
01:02:06.450 --> 01:02:07.240
We should be able to do
2469
01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:07.410
it.
2470
01:02:07.610 --> 01:02:07.660
Yeah,
2471
01:02:07.770 --> 01:02:08.550
we should be able to do it.
2472
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:09.120
We're gonna,
2473
01:02:09.490 --> 01:02:09.760
I think I
2474
01:02:09.910 --> 01:02:10.830
already converted somebody.
2475
01:02:12.850 --> 01:02:13.160
I am,
2476
01:02:13.290 --> 01:02:13.480
I,
2477
01:02:13.610 --> 01:02:14.660
I am on your side.
2478
01:02:15.010 --> 01:02:15.280
Thank you.
2479
01:02:15.330 --> 01:02:16.480
It's even a round of applause.
2480
01:02:16.570 --> 01:02:17.250
I'm with it.
2481
01:02:18.110 --> 01:02:18.580
I'm with it,
2482
01:02:18.630 --> 01:02:19.020
man.
2483
01:02:19.150 --> 01:02:20.940
I see the need every day on the street too,
2484
01:02:21.030 --> 01:02:22.620
not just here in LA but everywhere,
2485
01:02:22.720 --> 01:02:23.060
honestly,
2486
01:02:23.110 --> 01:02:24.130
it's like you go around.
2487
01:02:24.430 --> 01:02:25.820
If you'd like to be the next debater,
2488
01:02:25.950 --> 01:02:29.230
please get to the chair in 321.
2489
01:02:31.110 --> 01:02:31.360
Hey
2490
01:02:31.710 --> 01:02:32.390
back.
2491
01:02:32.750 --> 01:02:37.080
So I want to go back to the statistic that the gentleman raised before
2492
01:02:37.430 --> 01:02:40.090
about the World Economic Forum report,
2493
01:02:40.470 --> 01:02:40.700
um,
2494
01:02:40.830 --> 01:02:42.410
that said we were gonna have,
2495
01:02:42.510 --> 01:02:42.840
uh,
2496
01:02:42.910 --> 01:02:44.500
170 million
2497
01:02:44.950 --> 01:02:47.110
jobs created by 2030.
2498
01:02:47.550 --> 01:02:48.490
So that,
2499
01:02:48.670 --> 01:02:48.820
uh,
2500
01:02:49.110 --> 01:02:49.540
report,
2501
01:02:49.870 --> 01:02:50.020
uh,
2502
01:02:50.150 --> 01:02:51.660
mentioned all industries.
2503
01:02:51.870 --> 01:02:53.960
So it was across technology,
2504
01:02:54.190 --> 01:02:55.860
it was across healthcare,
2505
01:02:55.990 --> 01:02:57.860
it was across education.
2506
01:02:58.340 --> 01:02:59.490
So based on that,
2507
01:02:59.580 --> 01:03:03.400
it's that disproportion of certain industries
2508
01:03:03.820 --> 01:03:05.450
not having enough jobs
2509
01:03:05.660 --> 01:03:07.410
are actually included in that report,
2510
01:03:07.580 --> 01:03:10.370
so they will have enough jobs based on that report.
2511
01:03:11.170 --> 01:03:13.320
Another thing I want to point out is that there's a study,
2512
01:03:13.370 --> 01:03:15.720
and I believe it's from PWC,
2513
01:03:16.570 --> 01:03:20.080
and they're seeing that when it comes to job postings,
2514
01:03:20.330 --> 01:03:24.220
AI jobs are being reported 4 times higher
2515
01:03:24.370 --> 01:03:26.720
postings than traditional jobs,
2516
01:03:26.970 --> 01:03:28.760
so the jobs are there,
2517
01:03:29.130 --> 01:03:29.950
it's just that.
2518
01:03:30.180 --> 01:03:31.950
There's a resistance to
2519
01:03:32.100 --> 01:03:33.130
adapting to them,
2520
01:03:33.220 --> 01:03:35.570
so we're seeing more AI type jobs.
2521
01:03:35.860 --> 01:03:39.450
There isn't necessarily going to be a decrease in jobs,
2522
01:03:39.660 --> 01:03:39.730
right,
2523
01:03:39.860 --> 01:03:42.630
which will eliminate the need for the universal basic income.
2524
01:03:42.740 --> 01:03:46.230
It's just that transition of the new types of jobs that are there,
2525
01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:48.050
which happens in every single,
2526
01:03:48.340 --> 01:03:48.960
you know,
2527
01:03:49.550 --> 01:03:51.200
We talked about the industrial revolution,
2528
01:03:51.290 --> 01:03:52.760
even when tractors were created,
2529
01:03:52.780 --> 01:03:54.680
that replaced a whole bunch of agricultural
2530
01:03:54.680 --> 01:03:56.580
workers and those workers had to retrain,
2531
01:03:56.890 --> 01:03:58.000
learn how to drive tractors.
2532
01:03:58.090 --> 01:03:58.430
So
2533
01:03:59.130 --> 01:04:01.240
that I don't believe that universal basic income
2534
01:04:01.240 --> 01:04:02.640
is going to be something that happens,
2535
01:04:02.730 --> 01:04:02.920
um,
2536
01:04:03.040 --> 01:04:05.240
because it's also been talked about in history and it's never happened.
2537
01:04:06.410 --> 01:04:06.560
Wow,
2538
01:04:06.690 --> 01:04:08.480
so there are a couple of different pieces there.
2539
01:04:11.140 --> 01:04:13.320
I was itching to say it all this time.
2540
01:04:13.540 --> 01:04:15.250
So one is the need based on jobs.
2541
01:04:15.300 --> 01:04:15.880
The other is,
2542
01:04:16.020 --> 01:04:16.130
uh,
2543
01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:17.780
whether it will happen or not.
2544
01:04:17.860 --> 01:04:20.800
So I actually attended that World Economic Forum event,
2545
01:04:20.900 --> 01:04:21.890
and when they said like,
2546
01:04:22.020 --> 01:04:22.170
hey,
2547
01:04:22.220 --> 01:04:23.400
we're gonna automate away,
2548
01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:23.890
um,
2549
01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:26.190
90 million jobs like over over this period,
2550
01:04:26.300 --> 01:04:26.490
it,
2551
01:04:26.580 --> 01:04:28.050
it seemed like it was a red alert.
2552
01:04:28.100 --> 01:04:29.050
Like there was like a freak out.
2553
01:04:29.140 --> 01:04:29.370
They're like,
2554
01:04:29.420 --> 01:04:29.970
what are we gonna do?
2555
01:04:30.020 --> 01:04:30.410
And by the way,
2556
01:04:30.500 --> 01:04:32.020
if you look at the global statistics,
2557
01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:34.210
America is somewhere in the middle in terms of the
2558
01:04:34.210 --> 01:04:36.680
proportion of jobs they think are subject to automation.
2559
01:04:36.910 --> 01:04:39.500
But one reason why our jobs will be much more.
2560
01:04:39.660 --> 01:04:41.400
automated is that we're more expensive.
2561
01:04:41.650 --> 01:04:44.960
Like if you have an American in a in a role and you
2562
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:47.830
factor in healthcare costs and payroll tax and all the rest of it,
2563
01:04:47.970 --> 01:04:49.640
the incentive to get rid of us is higher than
2564
01:04:49.640 --> 01:04:52.000
if you go to some other countries where those expenses,
2565
01:04:52.090 --> 01:04:52.200
like,
2566
01:04:52.250 --> 01:04:52.450
you know,
2567
01:04:52.490 --> 01:04:54.540
your hourly rates lower and the rest of it.
2568
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:56.190
So I certainly
2569
01:04:56.380 --> 01:04:57.200
was there,
2570
01:04:57.530 --> 01:04:59.130
read that report and the rest of it,
2571
01:04:59.250 --> 01:05:00.200
and it did not say like,
2572
01:05:00.290 --> 01:05:00.440
hey,
2573
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:01.200
it's going to be fine.
2574
01:05:01.290 --> 01:05:02.560
The AI jobs are going to save us.
2575
01:05:02.650 --> 01:05:03.670
Like that was not the
2576
01:05:03.830 --> 01:05:04.200
message.
2577
01:05:04.810 --> 01:05:06.670
There's a transition.
2578
01:05:06.810 --> 01:05:07.720
I agree with that part.
2579
01:05:07.810 --> 01:05:08.110
OK.
2580
01:05:08.250 --> 01:05:09.490
The second thing is that even though.
2581
01:05:09.560 --> 01:05:11.810
There are of course going to be new jobs you've created.
2582
01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:15.230
I think they're going to be inappropriate for a lot of the people that need them.
2583
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:15.460
Uh,
2584
01:05:15.560 --> 01:05:16.430
they're going to be some winners.
2585
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:18.060
They're going to be people that managed to fill
2586
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:19.070
AI roles.
2587
01:05:19.090 --> 01:05:19.470
In my view,
2588
01:05:19.490 --> 01:05:21.610
it's going to be like a relatively modest number,
2589
01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:22.030
um,
2590
01:05:22.120 --> 01:05:23.940
compared to the displaced,
2591
01:05:24.240 --> 01:05:24.470
um,
2592
01:05:24.600 --> 01:05:27.950
and so I think both of those things can be true that there are going to be these,
2593
01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:28.630
these postings.
2594
01:05:28.650 --> 01:05:29.880
And if you look at some of these postings,
2595
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:31.990
I'm gonna say something really nasty and mean to everyone.
2596
01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:34.470
Sometimes the jobs that get posted aren't real jobs.
2597
01:05:34.560 --> 01:05:35.620
I don't know if you all know that.
2598
01:05:36.040 --> 01:05:37.830
Sometimes companies I came from corporate.
2599
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:38.990
I actually came from corporate.
2600
01:05:40.790 --> 01:05:42.410
Sometimes companies post jobs
2601
01:05:42.510 --> 01:05:43.900
for data collection purposes.
2602
01:05:44.230 --> 01:05:46.890
Sometimes they post jobs to seem like they're healthy.
2603
01:05:47.830 --> 01:05:49.440
Like there are a lot of reasons why companies
2604
01:05:49.670 --> 01:05:50.180
post jobs.
2605
01:05:50.230 --> 01:05:50.670
And so when,
2606
01:05:50.750 --> 01:05:51.330
when you
2607
01:05:51.630 --> 01:05:52.580
apply to jobs,
2608
01:05:52.630 --> 01:05:54.710
a lot of the time there's not gonna be a human that reads your resume.
2609
01:05:54.790 --> 01:05:56.170
I think people have figured all this out.
2610
01:05:56.510 --> 01:05:56.710
Now,
2611
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:59.340
in terms of the need for a universal basic income,
2612
01:05:59.470 --> 01:05:59.620
um,
2613
01:05:59.750 --> 01:06:01.990
one of the things that gets me revved up
2614
01:06:02.150 --> 01:06:04.710
is the fact that so many Americans are struggling,
2615
01:06:04.950 --> 01:06:05.090
uh,
2616
01:06:05.270 --> 01:06:05.980
day to day and,
2617
01:06:06.070 --> 01:06:06.770
and when
2618
01:06:07.010 --> 01:06:07.890
you travel,
2619
01:06:08.070 --> 01:06:08.300
um,
2620
01:06:08.470 --> 01:06:09.340
this country.
2621
01:06:09.680 --> 01:06:09.750
Uh,
2622
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:10.510
you kind of,
2623
01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:10.790
uh,
2624
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:11.140
like,
2625
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:12.790
it's really clear that,
2626
01:06:12.970 --> 01:06:13.270
um,
2627
01:06:13.480 --> 01:06:15.460
the majority of Americans feel like
2628
01:06:15.600 --> 01:06:18.430
they're on the outside looking in of whatever the heck is going on,
2629
01:06:18.600 --> 01:06:18.790
um,
2630
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:20.670
in AI as evidenced by the,
2631
01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:21.180
the,
2632
01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:21.470
um,
2633
01:06:21.640 --> 01:06:24.630
disapproval of AI being something like 74%.
2634
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:26.630
It's something like 26% approved,
2635
01:06:26.680 --> 01:06:28.140
74% disapprove,
2636
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:29.840
and that's something that
2637
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:31.870
uh the AI optimists I'm surrounded by
2638
01:06:32.110 --> 01:06:33.590
might hear that number and say,
2639
01:06:33.720 --> 01:06:34.150
OK,
2640
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:35.580
like we should do something about that,
2641
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:35.950
you know,
2642
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:39.070
it's like we have to make people feel like they're gonna benefit from AI,
2643
01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:41.510
but most Americans do not feel like they're gonna benefit.
2644
01:06:41.690 --> 01:06:43.630
From AI and I believe that they're correct.
2645
01:06:43.730 --> 01:06:45.870
I think Americans are actually smart and savvy,
2646
01:06:45.890 --> 01:06:46.240
and they're like,
2647
01:06:46.330 --> 01:06:46.520
Yo,
2648
01:06:46.570 --> 01:06:47.640
this does not include me.
2649
01:06:47.730 --> 01:06:49.490
And so until that changes,
2650
01:06:49.610 --> 01:06:50.900
I think the hostilities,
2651
01:06:50.980 --> 01:06:50.990
uh,
2652
01:06:51.170 --> 01:06:51.430
is,
2653
01:06:51.540 --> 01:06:51.840
um,
2654
01:06:52.010 --> 01:06:52.600
going to be there.
2655
01:06:52.890 --> 01:06:54.400
But you can't have you're gonna pause here.
2656
01:06:54.530 --> 01:06:55.240
You've been voted out.
2657
01:06:55.350 --> 01:06:55.760
Thank you so much.
2658
01:06:55.890 --> 01:06:56.920
I had such a good point.
2659
01:06:59.380 --> 01:07:00.650
If you'd like to be the next debater,
2660
01:07:00.790 --> 01:07:04.280
please get to the chair in 321.
2661
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:08.540
Hey there again.
2662
01:07:09.470 --> 01:07:10.260
My name's Jay.
2663
01:07:10.350 --> 01:07:14.820
I am a media personality and I also am a game creator
2664
01:07:14.990 --> 01:07:16.760
slash model for The Sims 4.
2665
01:07:17.030 --> 01:07:20.220
And yesterday we just hit 67,000 Patreon subscribers.
2666
01:07:20.350 --> 01:07:20.820
Oh my gosh,
2667
01:07:20.950 --> 01:07:21.660
congratulations.
2668
01:07:21.750 --> 01:07:22.220
Thank you.
2669
01:07:22.390 --> 01:07:23.740
That's a really significant number.
2670
01:07:23.950 --> 01:07:24.430
Thank you.
2671
01:07:24.630 --> 01:07:25.940
I wanted to ask,
2672
01:07:26.110 --> 01:07:29.420
I'm not really a big terminology guy and I definitely don't have
2673
01:07:29.420 --> 01:07:32.460
all the stats and I am not somebody who cannot be educated.
2674
01:07:33.050 --> 01:07:34.710
But I wanted to
2675
01:07:34.970 --> 01:07:40.330
talk about where the statistics are that we would specifically be needing the,
2676
01:07:40.490 --> 01:07:42.150
the universal basic income
2677
01:07:42.610 --> 01:07:43.530
due to AI.
2678
01:07:43.550 --> 01:07:46.290
I wanna go back to when COVID happened.
2679
01:07:46.930 --> 01:07:47.790
That was
2680
01:07:48.160 --> 01:07:50.000
very stats based.
2681
01:07:50.100 --> 01:07:50.240
We,
2682
01:07:50.330 --> 01:07:50.350
uh,
2683
01:07:50.520 --> 01:07:51.770
a lot of people were out of work.
2684
01:07:51.970 --> 01:07:52.720
Nobody could do things.
2685
01:07:52.770 --> 01:07:54.680
And that was very easy to keep up with,
2686
01:07:54.730 --> 01:07:54.840
like,
2687
01:07:54.890 --> 01:07:55.280
hey,
2688
01:07:55.570 --> 01:07:56.440
nobody's going to work.
2689
01:07:56.530 --> 01:07:56.950
So it
2690
01:07:57.130 --> 01:07:58.810
makes more sense statistically
2691
01:07:59.130 --> 01:08:00.230
that we all got that.
2692
01:08:00.410 --> 01:08:00.980
However,
2693
01:08:01.170 --> 01:08:03.330
I don't want to act like everybody in the world loves.
2694
01:08:03.450 --> 01:08:03.830
AI.
2695
01:08:04.080 --> 01:08:05.380
We have a lot of companies who,
2696
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:06.790
if they even do an AI flyer,
2697
01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:10.340
you're either getting canceled or they're rearranging their whole team.
2698
01:08:10.520 --> 01:08:13.060
And there are a lot of companies who are also
2699
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:16.950
building up their brands to compete with the AI brands because they know
2700
01:08:16.950 --> 01:08:20.270
that there is also a big majority of the people who hate it.
2701
01:08:20.609 --> 01:08:23.090
So I feel like the statistics that you're saying,
2702
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:25.550
Unless I'm not understanding,
2703
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.350
you're basing every single company under the same guideline as
2704
01:08:28.350 --> 01:08:31.180
if they're all using AI and that will be the same
2705
01:08:31.399 --> 01:08:31.710
case.
2706
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:33.189
Am I misunderstanding that?
2707
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:34.899
Maybe just like a tweak.
2708
01:08:35.250 --> 01:08:35.470
Um,
2709
01:08:35.740 --> 01:08:37.279
so there's broad disapproval of AI
2710
01:08:37.590 --> 01:08:38.779
and you're obviously,
2711
01:08:39.160 --> 01:08:39.430
you know,
2712
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:40.470
perceiving that,
2713
01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:43.430
and then companies are going to use AI in different ways.
2714
01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:46.250
All the CEOs I've talked to have suggested that
2715
01:08:46.550 --> 01:08:49.200
um it's going to lead to a reduction in work workers
2716
01:08:49.350 --> 01:08:52.500
and some of the reduction in workers is not AI based um
2717
01:08:52.500 --> 01:08:55.810
there is something called AI washing which is like hey I overhired
2718
01:08:56.069 --> 01:08:58.250
like uh you know I I um
2719
01:08:58.430 --> 01:09:00.069
managed my company poorly
2720
01:09:00.310 --> 01:09:03.069
so I'm now gonna fire a bunch of people and I'm gonna blame AI.
2721
01:09:03.990 --> 01:09:04.859
That that has totally happened.
2722
01:09:04.990 --> 01:09:05.649
There's also,
2723
01:09:05.870 --> 01:09:05.979
uh,
2724
01:09:06.069 --> 01:09:06.229
like,
2725
01:09:06.390 --> 01:09:06.740
hey,
2726
01:09:07.069 --> 01:09:11.510
the reality is I am gonna replace like 500 customer service workers with 50 in AI.
2727
01:09:11.630 --> 01:09:13.569
That's also very real and it's happening.
2728
01:09:13.779 --> 01:09:15.870
And a real company told me that they were gonna do that.
2729
01:09:15.930 --> 01:09:16.500
I am
2730
01:09:16.609 --> 01:09:18.770
of the opinion that universal basic income
2731
01:09:18.930 --> 01:09:19.590
is necessary,
2732
01:09:19.810 --> 01:09:20.359
was necessary,
2733
01:09:20.490 --> 01:09:21.229
will be necessary,
2734
01:09:21.330 --> 01:09:22.390
and the sooner we implement it,
2735
01:09:22.410 --> 01:09:22.760
the better.
2736
01:09:22.850 --> 01:09:24.180
I believed in this years ago.
2737
01:09:24.250 --> 01:09:25.390
I believe in it now,
2738
01:09:25.529 --> 01:09:28.729
and I think it's going to become more and more apparent to people as
2739
01:09:28.930 --> 01:09:30.750
the college grads are
2740
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:31.720
shunted
2741
01:09:32.010 --> 01:09:32.819
into,
2742
01:09:33.050 --> 01:09:33.430
uh,
2743
01:09:33.450 --> 01:09:36.609
jobs that do not require a college degree because the knowledge premium
2744
01:09:36.850 --> 01:09:40.149
that has benefited generations of college graduates is about to get
2745
01:09:40.330 --> 01:09:41.240
uh eviscerated.
2746
01:09:41.330 --> 01:09:43.149
If you have that population
2747
01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:44.260
coming home,
2748
01:09:44.510 --> 01:09:46.580
I think there's gonna be a lot of uh
2749
01:09:46.899 --> 01:09:47.830
discontent,
2750
01:09:48.160 --> 01:09:48.390
um,
2751
01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:52.390
and I'm not going to pretend that universal basic income solves every problem,
2752
01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:52.910
um,
2753
01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.390
but it provides a foundation and a transition
2754
01:09:55.390 --> 01:09:58.060
mechanism and fuel for people to be able to
2755
01:09:58.400 --> 01:09:59.630
uh start businesses,
2756
01:09:59.750 --> 01:10:00.870
create opportunities,
2757
01:10:01.080 --> 01:10:01.230
uh,
2758
01:10:01.320 --> 01:10:02.070
pursue
2759
01:10:02.280 --> 01:10:03.900
initiatives and passions,
2760
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:04.190
uh,
2761
01:10:04.360 --> 01:10:05.380
and maybe
2762
01:10:05.630 --> 01:10:06.950
like make a transition
2763
01:10:07.080 --> 01:10:08.720
both professionally and regionally.
2764
01:10:09.170 --> 01:10:09.440
Yes,
2765
01:10:09.570 --> 01:10:09.680
um,
2766
01:10:09.770 --> 01:10:11.320
I also want to we're gonna pause here.
2767
01:10:11.410 --> 01:10:12.710
We're out of time for this claim.
2768
01:10:13.060 --> 01:10:13.790
Congratulations
2769
01:10:14.010 --> 01:10:15.360
on the community and business.
2770
01:10:16.130 --> 01:10:19.160
My final surrounding claim is the market will optimize
2771
01:10:19.360 --> 01:10:20.830
for productivity and profit,
2772
01:10:21.050 --> 01:10:22.130
not human dignity.
2773
01:10:22.290 --> 01:10:23.660
If you'd like to be the next debater,
2774
01:10:23.850 --> 01:10:27.460
get to that chair in 321.
2775
01:10:29.310 --> 01:10:29.420
Hey,
2776
01:10:29.510 --> 01:10:29.880
how are you?
2777
01:10:29.950 --> 01:10:30.600
Nice to meet you.
2778
01:10:30.750 --> 01:10:31.400
Nice to meet
2779
01:10:31.510 --> 01:10:32.850
the best dressed man here.
2780
01:10:33.030 --> 01:10:34.100
So tell me about yourself.
2781
01:10:34.190 --> 01:10:34.300
Yeah,
2782
01:10:34.510 --> 01:10:37.700
so I work at a nonprofit and I'm their head of emerging technology policy.
2783
01:10:37.790 --> 01:10:38.660
So basically I read,
2784
01:10:38.790 --> 01:10:38.980
write,
2785
01:10:39.150 --> 01:10:42.500
talk about AI and how it's impacting consumers every single day.
2786
01:10:42.570 --> 01:10:43.270
What kind of nonprofit?
2787
01:10:43.290 --> 01:10:44.620
I'm at the Consumer Choice Center.
2788
01:10:44.670 --> 01:10:44.740
Uh,
2789
01:10:44.870 --> 01:10:45.060
we're,
2790
01:10:45.110 --> 01:10:46.300
we're based in Arlington,
2791
01:10:46.470 --> 01:10:46.580
uh,
2792
01:10:46.830 --> 01:10:47.820
rather Washington DC,
2793
01:10:47.910 --> 01:10:48.810
but we're all over the world,
2794
01:10:48.890 --> 01:10:48.990
right?
2795
01:10:49.110 --> 01:10:49.340
So
2796
01:10:49.740 --> 01:10:51.340
we kind of go in and meet people where they're at,
2797
01:10:51.470 --> 01:10:52.660
whether that's here in United States.
2798
01:10:52.790 --> 01:10:54.620
States or overseas in Europe or Canada,
2799
01:10:54.710 --> 01:10:55.300
what are you finding?
2800
01:10:55.350 --> 01:10:56.110
I wanna hear more.
2801
01:10:56.230 --> 01:10:56.460
Yeah,
2802
01:10:56.630 --> 01:10:56.820
so I,
2803
01:10:56.870 --> 01:10:56.960
I,
2804
01:10:57.030 --> 01:10:58.100
I think when it's all said and done,
2805
01:10:58.150 --> 01:11:01.540
when we're looking at this particular question around human dignity and and AI,
2806
01:11:01.670 --> 01:11:04.060
I think that it's important to go and ground it in terms of who
2807
01:11:04.060 --> 01:11:07.200
is going to set like what the parameters of that human dignity looks like.
2808
01:11:07.350 --> 01:11:08.910
I think right now the marketplace,
2809
01:11:09.230 --> 01:11:09.500
it's not,
2810
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:11.570
they're not mutually exclusive goals in terms of going and
2811
01:11:11.590 --> 01:11:14.400
and maximizing for productivity and profit as well as and,
2812
01:11:14.470 --> 01:11:16.620
and counting for human dignity in of itself.
2813
01:11:17.090 --> 01:11:19.400
These companies are competing for consumer dollars,
2814
01:11:19.490 --> 01:11:20.950
they're competing for their attention,
2815
01:11:21.090 --> 01:11:21.800
their patronage,
2816
01:11:21.860 --> 01:11:22.040
right?
2817
01:11:22.090 --> 01:11:22.450
And
2818
01:11:22.690 --> 01:11:23.120
basically,
2819
01:11:23.210 --> 01:11:25.480
I think that consumers vote with their feet very effectively on these,
2820
01:11:25.610 --> 01:11:26.660
on these companies and
2821
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:30.430
I think that whether it's on the degree of safety or restrictions that
2822
01:11:30.430 --> 01:11:33.380
these companies are willing to go and put on their models versus maybe
2823
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:36.310
very few as as Grok will go and show perhaps
2824
01:11:36.480 --> 01:11:39.350
these are the kinds of things that I think consumers go in and show
2825
01:11:39.350 --> 01:11:41.940
and demonstrate and then that doesn't even account for the open source community.
2826
01:11:42.160 --> 01:11:44.270
I think when we're talking about human dignity,
2827
01:11:44.360 --> 01:11:46.230
certainly with this particular conversation,
2828
01:11:46.480 --> 01:11:47.520
we have to keep in mind
2829
01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:48.760
as again who is.
2830
01:11:48.810 --> 01:11:51.540
Going and setting that parameter if we're asking the government to go and do that,
2831
01:11:51.590 --> 01:11:54.250
I think that that is a very dangerous kind of course because
2832
01:11:54.470 --> 01:11:56.740
I think that there is a wide variety of opinions in
2833
01:11:56.740 --> 01:11:58.640
terms of the current administration that's in the White House.
2834
01:11:58.750 --> 01:11:58.860
Uh,
2835
01:11:58.990 --> 01:12:00.380
there was certainly a fair share of opinions about
2836
01:12:00.380 --> 01:12:02.250
the previous administration that was in the White House,
2837
01:12:02.470 --> 01:12:06.390
and I'm not sure if I want to go and trust those politicians to go and set
2838
01:12:06.700 --> 01:12:08.540
what that human dignity standard might be
2839
01:12:08.540 --> 01:12:10.700
because it's different for each individual person.
2840
01:12:10.990 --> 01:12:12.520
So I think there's that side of the equation.
2841
01:12:12.610 --> 01:12:12.640
Well,
2842
01:12:12.810 --> 01:12:13.000
so you,
2843
01:12:13.090 --> 01:12:15.300
you made two points just now that I want to press on.
2844
01:12:15.410 --> 01:12:16.000
So number 1,
2845
01:12:16.050 --> 01:12:16.360
you said,
2846
01:12:16.470 --> 01:12:16.630
look,
2847
01:12:16.730 --> 01:12:18.270
the market will actually
2848
01:12:18.530 --> 01:12:21.110
optimize for human dignity because consumers will
2849
01:12:21.340 --> 01:12:22.450
spend their money accordingly.
2850
01:12:22.690 --> 01:12:23.680
And then number 2 is,
2851
01:12:23.810 --> 01:12:27.210
even if you accept that the market will not optimize for human dignity,
2852
01:12:27.370 --> 01:12:28.980
you don't want the government to do it because they,
2853
01:12:29.030 --> 01:12:29.350
they,
2854
01:12:29.490 --> 01:12:29.720
you know,
2855
01:12:29.820 --> 01:12:30.560
aren't very
2856
01:12:30.690 --> 01:12:31.070
like
2857
01:12:31.270 --> 01:12:32.520
aren't very whatever the heck,
2858
01:12:32.610 --> 01:12:32.880
liked,
2859
01:12:32.930 --> 01:12:33.320
competent,
2860
01:12:33.410 --> 01:12:33.890
whatever it is.
2861
01:12:33.970 --> 01:12:34.880
I think I'll push back on that.
2862
01:12:34.900 --> 01:12:36.550
I'm not saying that they won't go and,
2863
01:12:36.570 --> 01:12:38.570
and it's not that they won't optimize for human dignity.
2864
01:12:38.590 --> 01:12:38.880
It's just.
2865
01:12:39.040 --> 01:12:39.340
That
2866
01:12:39.520 --> 01:12:40.950
I think that it's a Pareto improvement,
2867
01:12:41.010 --> 01:12:41.120
right?
2868
01:12:41.160 --> 01:12:43.540
It's constantly an iterative process because what people
2869
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.650
are expecting from these companies is constantly changing.
2870
01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:48.390
What we thought about for the social media company conversation just a
2871
01:12:48.390 --> 01:12:50.910
decade ago relative to where we are today is two different things,
2872
01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:52.660
and companies are constantly changing for that.
2873
01:12:52.840 --> 01:12:53.740
I remember
2874
01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:58.780
in the woebegone days when a company called Walmart came around to various,
2875
01:12:58.880 --> 01:12:59.110
uh,
2876
01:12:59.400 --> 01:12:59.830
communities,
2877
01:12:59.920 --> 01:13:00.790
and then people would be like,
2878
01:13:00.910 --> 01:13:02.520
no one is gonna shop at Walmart.
2879
01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:04.870
They're gonna shop at their local hardware store and
2880
01:13:04.870 --> 01:13:06.830
their mom and pop because they love those shops.
2881
01:13:07.020 --> 01:13:07.530
Keepers
2882
01:13:07.790 --> 01:13:09.310
and they're gonna want to shop local.
2883
01:13:09.710 --> 01:13:12.250
And then that lasted for about 10 seconds.
2884
01:13:12.350 --> 01:13:13.620
Everyone went to Walmart,
2885
01:13:13.790 --> 01:13:14.030
um,
2886
01:13:14.190 --> 01:13:15.850
and the local mom and pop's,
2887
01:13:16.150 --> 01:13:16.260
uh,
2888
01:13:16.350 --> 01:13:17.020
disappeared.
2889
01:13:17.070 --> 01:13:18.530
You now have American Express is,
2890
01:13:18.670 --> 01:13:19.330
in my opinion,
2891
01:13:19.470 --> 01:13:20.130
sort of like
2892
01:13:20.370 --> 01:13:23.100
pulling on the heartstrings like shop small
2893
01:13:23.390 --> 01:13:23.860
Saturday,
2894
01:13:23.910 --> 01:13:25.540
and then that's like the one day people are like,
2895
01:13:25.630 --> 01:13:26.180
oh snap,
2896
01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:27.050
maybe I will
2897
01:13:27.250 --> 01:13:27.740
shop in,
2898
01:13:27.790 --> 01:13:28.140
in the,
2899
01:13:28.190 --> 01:13:29.020
the mom and pop.
2900
01:13:29.140 --> 01:13:29.820
The marketplace,
2901
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:30.570
in my opinion,
2902
01:13:31.110 --> 01:13:32.690
does not reward the folks
2903
01:13:32.830 --> 01:13:33.460
who say like,
2904
01:13:33.580 --> 01:13:34.100
hey,
2905
01:13:34.270 --> 01:13:34.820
you should support.
2906
01:13:35.120 --> 01:13:37.200
me even though I'm going to be a little more expensive,
2907
01:13:37.380 --> 01:13:38.560
like a little further away,
2908
01:13:38.580 --> 01:13:39.050
a little bit like,
2909
01:13:39.100 --> 01:13:39.170
no,
2910
01:13:39.220 --> 01:13:39.290
no,
2911
01:13:39.340 --> 01:13:39.450
no,
2912
01:13:39.540 --> 01:13:40.500
like Americans are just like,
2913
01:13:40.540 --> 01:13:41.900
like hard pass.
2914
01:13:42.300 --> 01:13:44.050
I would actually go and push back on that a little bit.
2915
01:13:44.420 --> 01:13:45.530
I'd go and push back on that a little bit,
2916
01:13:45.620 --> 01:13:45.760
right?
2917
01:13:45.820 --> 01:13:47.450
Because if you think about platforms like Etsy,
2918
01:13:47.500 --> 01:13:48.100
for example,
2919
01:13:48.340 --> 01:13:52.090
that algorithm that is powered by AI is connecting lots of Americans to
2920
01:13:52.090 --> 01:13:55.330
small businesses all around the world in ways that were not previously possible.
2921
01:13:55.540 --> 01:13:55.900
And that is,
2922
01:13:55.940 --> 01:13:57.080
I think that's like
2923
01:13:57.540 --> 01:13:58.210
that's like a,
2924
01:13:58.420 --> 01:13:58.570
again,
2925
01:13:58.890 --> 01:13:59.160
to me,
2926
01:13:59.180 --> 01:14:01.290
like a different claim that you're making.
2927
01:14:01.430 --> 01:14:02.680
So to the um.
2928
01:14:02.940 --> 01:14:03.040
Like,
2929
01:14:03.130 --> 01:14:03.320
hey,
2930
01:14:03.540 --> 01:14:04.970
because of consumer choice,
2931
01:14:05.210 --> 01:14:08.810
the market will actually like reward like good values,
2932
01:14:08.970 --> 01:14:09.410
good practices,
2933
01:14:09.490 --> 01:14:09.990
etc.
2934
01:14:10.290 --> 01:14:10.690
Like I,
2935
01:14:10.810 --> 01:14:12.650
I would just say anyone who looks at
2936
01:14:12.810 --> 01:14:15.200
the record of American consumer behavior,
2937
01:14:15.450 --> 01:14:15.600
um,
2938
01:14:15.770 --> 01:14:16.560
if you look at the facts,
2939
01:14:16.610 --> 01:14:17.690
like I don't think that's borne out.
2940
01:14:17.770 --> 01:14:18.720
The second thing is like,
2941
01:14:18.850 --> 01:14:19.260
look,
2942
01:14:19.530 --> 01:14:19.800
um,
2943
01:14:20.040 --> 01:14:23.270
different folks can have different points of view on like the role of government.
2944
01:14:23.490 --> 01:14:26.650
One of the arguments I'm making is that I prefer
2945
01:14:26.970 --> 01:14:28.920
human agency to rest with people,
2946
01:14:29.250 --> 01:14:29.440
um,
2947
01:14:29.570 --> 01:14:30.890
and entrepreneurship to be.
2948
01:14:31.040 --> 01:14:31.520
Like the,
2949
01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:31.750
uh,
2950
01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:35.030
a huge driver of what people do because I think that's more than dignity,
2951
01:14:35.120 --> 01:14:36.510
that's like activation,
2952
01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:37.710
actualization,
2953
01:14:37.870 --> 01:14:38.030
like,
2954
01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:38.510
you know,
2955
01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:39.630
being able to,
2956
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:40.260
um,
2957
01:14:40.550 --> 01:14:40.990
build something,
2958
01:14:41.160 --> 01:14:41.710
create something,
2959
01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:42.550
live your dreams.
2960
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:42.960
Like I,
2961
01:14:43.040 --> 01:14:45.150
I have actually had a career that resembles that
2962
01:14:45.400 --> 01:14:47.470
and like I want that for as many people as possible.
2963
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:51.550
I think that is the definition of human dignity that we should be striving for.
2964
01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:52.990
And I think that these platforms,
2965
01:14:53.160 --> 01:14:56.150
whether it's anthropic and the closed source proprietary models or open source
2966
01:14:56.150 --> 01:14:58.820
ones are giving Americans plenty of opportunities to go and do that.
2967
01:14:59.150 --> 01:14:59.460
And again,
2968
01:14:59.510 --> 01:15:00.100
I think that it is,
2969
01:15:00.120 --> 01:15:00.180
no,
2970
01:15:00.230 --> 01:15:00.340
no,
2971
01:15:00.390 --> 01:15:00.460
no,
2972
01:15:00.510 --> 01:15:00.570
no,
2973
01:15:00.590 --> 01:15:02.100
I'm gonna push back on this for just a second.
2974
01:15:02.750 --> 01:15:03.220
There's like,
2975
01:15:03.340 --> 01:15:03.820
hey,
2976
01:15:03.950 --> 01:15:07.900
you can use my stuff if you pay the license and this is gonna be good for your dignity,
2977
01:15:08.030 --> 01:15:08.610
or
2978
01:15:08.830 --> 01:15:09.370
there's
2979
01:15:09.550 --> 01:15:11.610
We are now a $1 trillion company built on your
2980
01:15:11.610 --> 01:15:13.640
data and we're gonna share that value with you.
2981
01:15:13.860 --> 01:15:17.050
I'm gonna suggest that the latter version actually respects,
2982
01:15:17.100 --> 01:15:17.260
uh,
2983
01:15:17.380 --> 01:15:19.700
dignity at a higher level than you can use my stuff.
2984
01:15:20.390 --> 01:15:20.500
Yeah,
2985
01:15:20.870 --> 01:15:20.980
again,
2986
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:21.860
I don't think it's about that.
2987
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:25.340
I think that even when I was talking about before with like the use cases,
2988
01:15:25.430 --> 01:15:25.780
that's not,
2989
01:15:25.910 --> 01:15:28.190
we'll go and take it away from the model level for using my stuff.
2990
01:15:28.350 --> 01:15:29.890
We're talking about the use cases where we have,
2991
01:15:30.070 --> 01:15:30.180
again,
2992
01:15:30.270 --> 01:15:31.700
the technology getting utilized whether it's for
2993
01:15:31.700 --> 01:15:33.370
AI powered trousers or we're looking at again
2994
01:15:33.470 --> 01:15:34.900
in the healthcare industry where nurses are,
2995
01:15:34.980 --> 01:15:35.300
are,
2996
01:15:35.390 --> 01:15:36.650
there's a real shortage for nurses,
2997
01:15:36.750 --> 01:15:37.050
right?
2998
01:15:37.310 --> 01:15:38.780
And AI is gonna go and automate,
2999
01:15:38.830 --> 01:15:39.300
let's say the,
3000
01:15:39.390 --> 01:15:39.540
uh,
3001
01:15:39.590 --> 01:15:41.330
the paperwork that nurses have to go and do.
3002
01:15:41.470 --> 01:15:42.860
And that was actually one of the number one causes.
3003
01:15:42.980 --> 01:15:44.880
That nurses were leaving the workforces that they were just
3004
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:47.360
suffering so much burnout from going and dealing with that,
3005
01:15:47.450 --> 01:15:49.890
that they weren't doing the thing that they cared about anymore and AI
3006
01:15:50.130 --> 01:15:52.720
going and automating that away lets them focus on the thing that they want
3007
01:15:52.720 --> 01:15:54.810
to go and do that brought them into that career to begin with.
3008
01:15:54.890 --> 01:15:56.580
So that's actually giving them a sense of purpose and
3009
01:15:56.580 --> 01:15:58.760
human dignity in a way that was not previously possible.
3010
01:15:58.850 --> 01:15:59.960
This is like a whole new claim,
3011
01:16:00.020 --> 01:16:00.160
James,
3012
01:16:00.220 --> 01:16:01.120
I'm actually enjoying,
3013
01:16:01.210 --> 01:16:02.920
which is like AI is gonna get rid of the
3014
01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:05.550
bureaucracy and allow people to do what they wanna do.
3015
01:16:05.930 --> 01:16:06.050
People,
3016
01:16:06.770 --> 01:16:07.980
we're gonna have to pause here.
3017
01:16:08.130 --> 01:16:09.620
You've been voted out with the majority.
3018
01:16:09.770 --> 01:16:10.640
And in some cases that's true,
3019
01:16:10.730 --> 01:16:11.170
yeah.
3020
01:16:11.770 --> 01:16:12.720
That was fascinating.
3021
01:16:14.080 --> 01:16:15.550
If you'd like to be the next debater,
3022
01:16:15.710 --> 01:16:19.140
please get to the chair in 321.
3023
01:16:22.520 --> 01:16:22.570
Hey,
3024
01:16:22.670 --> 01:16:23.110
how are you?
3025
01:16:23.180 --> 01:16:23.460
Hi,
3026
01:16:23.580 --> 01:16:23.850
Megna,
3027
01:16:23.900 --> 01:16:25.410
I'm a software engineer at Google.
3028
01:16:25.530 --> 01:16:25.880
I've
3029
01:16:26.140 --> 01:16:27.610
been a software engineer for 10 years.
3030
01:16:27.660 --> 01:16:29.070
And where are you physically located?
3031
01:16:29.300 --> 01:16:29.550
Uh,
3032
01:16:29.740 --> 01:16:30.000
Bao.
3033
01:16:30.470 --> 01:16:30.570
Oh,
3034
01:16:30.660 --> 01:16:30.900
great,
3035
01:16:30.990 --> 01:16:31.610
thanks for making the trip.
3036
01:16:31.740 --> 01:16:32.450
Just a show of hands,
3037
01:16:32.540 --> 01:16:36.840
how many of you used any of the Gen AI platforms to prepare for this debate?
3038
01:16:37.470 --> 01:16:37.480
OK.
3039
01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:39.440
So
3040
01:16:39.660 --> 01:16:41.690
pre AI pre-internet,
3041
01:16:41.820 --> 01:16:43.170
unless you had access,
3042
01:16:43.260 --> 01:16:43.450
if you,
3043
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:44.110
if you're poor,
3044
01:16:44.240 --> 01:16:45.520
you wouldn't have been able to
3045
01:16:45.660 --> 01:16:49.120
like have access to information in order to prepare and be equally
3046
01:16:49.340 --> 01:16:50.680
competent as anyone else.
3047
01:16:50.870 --> 01:16:54.040
So you would have to use your network network through your parents or
3048
01:16:54.140 --> 01:16:56.440
you wouldn't need access to education or books,
3049
01:16:56.660 --> 01:16:56.970
etc.
3050
01:16:57.140 --> 01:16:57.890
to be able to.
3051
01:16:58.410 --> 01:16:58.640
You know,
3052
01:16:58.730 --> 01:16:59.030
have
3053
01:16:59.130 --> 01:17:01.310
the dignity or knowledge to come and present,
3054
01:17:01.570 --> 01:17:01.760
uh,
3055
01:17:01.810 --> 01:17:01.970
in,
3056
01:17:02.010 --> 01:17:02.950
in a space like this.
3057
01:17:03.050 --> 01:17:05.720
But now I think all of these platforms provide similar answers.
3058
01:17:05.810 --> 01:17:06.470
If I were to,
3059
01:17:06.690 --> 01:17:07.880
irrespective of what my prompt is,
3060
01:17:07.930 --> 01:17:09.180
you're gonna get fairly
3061
01:17:09.410 --> 01:17:12.600
a good amount of equal information and all of us would be equally prepared,
3062
01:17:12.650 --> 01:17:13.920
and that wouldn't have been possible before.
3063
01:17:14.050 --> 01:17:14.240
First,
3064
01:17:14.410 --> 01:17:14.520
let,
3065
01:17:14.610 --> 01:17:15.470
let me say.
3066
01:17:15.930 --> 01:17:18.560
I did not use AI to prepare for this and that wasn't deliberate.
3067
01:17:18.650 --> 01:17:19.400
I maybe I,
3068
01:17:19.450 --> 01:17:20.480
I could have or should have.
3069
01:17:20.570 --> 01:17:21.810
Maybe I even intended to.
3070
01:17:21.930 --> 01:17:23.860
I've written two books on this topic.
3071
01:17:25.410 --> 01:17:25.800
So what I,
3072
01:17:25.890 --> 01:17:27.610
what I actually did in real life,
3073
01:17:27.970 --> 01:17:29.270
you guys get to judges,
3074
01:17:29.490 --> 01:17:31.830
I just like reread my own books
3075
01:17:32.760 --> 01:17:33.150
because
3076
01:17:33.330 --> 01:17:36.190
what you're saying about AI preparing people for
3077
01:17:36.390 --> 01:17:37.300
this kind of debate,
3078
01:17:37.410 --> 01:17:39.970
I would 100% concede and agree with because like you're,
3079
01:17:40.090 --> 01:17:41.030
you're smart to do it.
3080
01:17:41.130 --> 01:17:41.610
I think that's.
3081
01:17:41.660 --> 01:17:43.200
It's a very different statement than that the
3082
01:17:43.200 --> 01:17:45.240
market will optimize for productivity and profit,
3083
01:17:45.290 --> 01:17:46.080
not human dignity.
3084
01:17:46.170 --> 01:17:46.560
If you say,
3085
01:17:46.710 --> 01:17:46.810
look,
3086
01:17:46.890 --> 01:17:48.470
if you're showing up to a debate event,
3087
01:17:48.610 --> 01:17:50.540
you're gonna be better prepared because of AI
3088
01:17:51.810 --> 01:17:52.600
like wouldn't even touch that.
3089
01:17:52.650 --> 01:17:53.040
I'd be like,
3090
01:17:53.130 --> 01:17:53.400
yes.
3091
01:17:53.530 --> 01:17:55.300
What I'm saying is that the market
3092
01:17:55.490 --> 01:17:56.730
is going to reward
3093
01:17:56.880 --> 01:17:57.940
the capital holders,
3094
01:17:58.010 --> 01:17:59.400
the controllers of the AI,
3095
01:17:59.530 --> 01:18:00.940
the repositories of data,
3096
01:18:01.050 --> 01:18:03.230
and the users of processing power.
3097
01:18:03.330 --> 01:18:06.160
That's going to accelerate inequality,
3098
01:18:06.400 --> 01:18:07.270
inequities.
3099
01:18:07.550 --> 01:18:07.620
Uh,
3100
01:18:07.750 --> 01:18:08.710
in our society,
3101
01:18:08.870 --> 01:18:11.380
and they're going to be a lot of people experiencing very,
3102
01:18:11.470 --> 01:18:13.820
very undignified circumstances as a result.
3103
01:18:13.990 --> 01:18:17.590
The focus is being taken away from the fact that we live in a capitalistic society.
3104
01:18:17.830 --> 01:18:19.340
So there is no free lunch.
3105
01:18:19.470 --> 01:18:22.730
These companies would have to in some way charge like users
3106
01:18:22.830 --> 01:18:23.980
in order to make these products.
3107
01:18:24.030 --> 01:18:24.850
So that could be
3108
01:18:25.190 --> 01:18:28.050
either providing ads or a subscription,
3109
01:18:28.330 --> 01:18:30.300
but they have to get users to use these products.
3110
01:18:30.350 --> 01:18:30.600
And,
3111
01:18:30.870 --> 01:18:31.730
and because of that,
3112
01:18:31.890 --> 01:18:33.410
they have to focus on
3113
01:18:33.560 --> 01:18:33.820
getting.
3114
01:18:33.950 --> 01:18:34.420
Users
3115
01:18:34.780 --> 01:18:36.850
the answers that they need and so they are focused
3116
01:18:36.850 --> 01:18:38.730
more on profit because of the society we live in.
3117
01:18:38.900 --> 01:18:39.700
So I agree with you there.
3118
01:18:39.860 --> 01:18:40.010
But,
3119
01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:40.770
but generally,
3120
01:18:40.940 --> 01:18:41.130
uh,
3121
01:18:41.380 --> 01:18:42.410
these products have been
3122
01:18:42.850 --> 01:18:46.240
extremely useful for pretty much anyone from any background in
3123
01:18:46.380 --> 01:18:47.170
giving access to,
3124
01:18:47.190 --> 01:18:49.200
to these large language models are trained on every
3125
01:18:49.340 --> 01:18:51.920
possible knowledge and pilot data on the internet.
3126
01:18:52.020 --> 01:18:53.480
So anyone has access to that.
3127
01:18:53.810 --> 01:18:53.820
OK,
3128
01:18:53.980 --> 01:18:55.540
just a simple conversation right now.
3129
01:18:55.620 --> 01:18:55.970
Yes,
3130
01:18:56.260 --> 01:18:56.440
again,
3131
01:18:56.660 --> 01:18:57.360
I would not
3132
01:18:57.500 --> 01:19:00.290
try and counter an argument saying that these tools are broadly useful.
3133
01:19:01.010 --> 01:19:01.450
For
3134
01:19:01.650 --> 01:19:03.960
lots of people in like lots of different circumstances.
3135
01:19:04.050 --> 01:19:05.110
The question to me is,
3136
01:19:05.130 --> 01:19:06.360
where does the value go?
3137
01:19:06.410 --> 01:19:08.120
And so if I use this AI tool,
3138
01:19:08.170 --> 01:19:11.730
it might allow me to accomplish my tasks a little bit more effectively,
3139
01:19:12.050 --> 01:19:12.430
but
3140
01:19:12.570 --> 01:19:15.400
there are going to be $1 trillion firms,
3141
01:19:15.450 --> 01:19:15.660
uh,
3142
01:19:15.810 --> 01:19:18.040
that are the primary beneficiaries,
3143
01:19:18.090 --> 01:19:19.960
and the main way that anthropic is going
3144
01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:22.910
to generate $100 billion in revenue this year
3145
01:19:23.130 --> 01:19:25.890
is that corporations are going to pay anthropic
3146
01:19:26.090 --> 01:19:26.800
that money.
3147
01:19:27.240 --> 01:19:28.380
And swap out
3148
01:19:28.540 --> 01:19:31.910
coders and marketers and call center workers and
3149
01:19:31.910 --> 01:19:34.680
researchers and data analysts and like all,
3150
01:19:34.700 --> 01:19:36.390
all the folks who used to do that job.
3151
01:19:36.480 --> 01:19:39.270
And so you're going to have Anthropic and its investors is a very,
3152
01:19:39.320 --> 01:19:40.210
very big winner.
3153
01:19:40.360 --> 01:19:41.820
Google's gonna be a very big winner.
3154
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:43.340
Amazon's gonna be a very big winner,
3155
01:19:43.480 --> 01:19:43.870
but the,
3156
01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:45.270
the average person is gonna be like,
3157
01:19:45.360 --> 01:19:45.950
wait a minute,
3158
01:19:46.200 --> 01:19:47.190
what happened to my job?
3159
01:19:47.320 --> 01:19:47.710
Wait a minute,
3160
01:19:47.800 --> 01:19:51.340
why is my kid at home uh on the sofa instead of having a job?
3161
01:19:51.400 --> 01:19:53.140
So the big thing here is like the market.
3162
01:19:53.430 --> 01:19:54.300
In my opinion,
3163
01:19:54.510 --> 01:19:56.420
it is not designed to optimize for human dignity.
3164
01:19:56.590 --> 01:19:57.210
It's just not.
3165
01:19:57.270 --> 01:19:57.540
It's like,
3166
01:19:57.590 --> 01:19:57.780
you know,
3167
01:19:57.870 --> 01:19:57.980
if,
3168
01:19:58.070 --> 01:19:58.850
if I replace,
3169
01:19:59.310 --> 01:19:59.500
um,
3170
01:19:59.670 --> 01:20:02.170
Uber drivers with way more drivers and that,
3171
01:20:02.190 --> 01:20:04.170
that income source disappears for those people,
3172
01:20:04.470 --> 01:20:05.940
like the market is thrilled.
3173
01:20:06.150 --> 01:20:06.810
Uber is like,
3174
01:20:06.910 --> 01:20:07.260
yes,
3175
01:20:07.470 --> 01:20:07.580
like,
3176
01:20:07.670 --> 01:20:07.860
you know,
3177
01:20:07.950 --> 01:20:08.100
we,
3178
01:20:08.190 --> 01:20:08.860
we did it and,
3179
01:20:08.910 --> 01:20:10.100
and because that's the purpose of Uber.
3180
01:20:10.150 --> 01:20:12.020
The purpose of Uber is not to employ 2 million people.
3181
01:20:12.110 --> 01:20:14.380
The purpose of Uber is to get me from point A to point B,
3182
01:20:14.430 --> 01:20:15.330
and that's the market.
3183
01:20:15.670 --> 01:20:17.650
Like if Uber could magically do this,
3184
01:20:17.870 --> 01:20:19.740
the market would reward Uber is my point.
3185
01:20:20.090 --> 01:20:20.300
Uh,
3186
01:20:20.550 --> 01:20:21.060
pause.
3187
01:20:21.290 --> 01:20:22.070
You've been voted out.
3188
01:20:22.140 --> 01:20:22.630
Thank you.
3189
01:20:22.770 --> 01:20:23.000
Thank you.
3190
01:20:24.290 --> 01:20:24.480
Thank you.
3191
01:20:24.570 --> 01:20:25.160
Great talking to you too.
3192
01:20:25.370 --> 01:20:27.640
321.
3193
01:20:29.740 --> 01:20:30.030
Hey there,
3194
01:20:30.060 --> 01:20:30.450
how are you?
3195
01:20:30.660 --> 01:20:30.810
Good.
3196
01:20:30.860 --> 01:20:31.140
How are you?
3197
01:20:31.340 --> 01:20:31.850
I'm Nathan.
3198
01:20:31.940 --> 01:20:33.150
I wanna start with the
3199
01:20:33.630 --> 01:20:34.200
idea that
3200
01:20:34.300 --> 01:20:37.090
do you agree that we're not at AGI yet but we're on the path to AGI,
3201
01:20:37.150 --> 01:20:38.800
which is why companies are
3202
01:20:38.940 --> 01:20:41.880
kind of doing this corporate restructurings in order to invest more
3203
01:20:42.100 --> 01:20:42.730
in that path.
3204
01:20:42.850 --> 01:20:44.010
And I generally agree with that,
3205
01:20:44.100 --> 01:20:44.210
yeah,
3206
01:20:44.420 --> 01:20:44.790
OK.
3207
01:20:44.940 --> 01:20:45.930
And if you agree with that,
3208
01:20:46.020 --> 01:20:49.090
then I think there's a lot of industry and research partnerships going on.
3209
01:20:49.500 --> 01:20:52.950
That as we get to the path of AGI as these new models get released,
3210
01:20:53.130 --> 01:20:54.840
they're not at the point of AGI yet,
3211
01:20:55.090 --> 01:20:56.500
they're being used for
3212
01:20:56.800 --> 01:20:58.600
purposes of human dignity
3213
01:20:58.970 --> 01:20:59.840
if that makes sense,
3214
01:20:59.890 --> 01:21:02.550
and I think that's why they can coexist at the same time
3215
01:21:02.890 --> 01:21:03.540
when you
3216
01:21:03.770 --> 01:21:04.800
optimize for profit,
3217
01:21:04.850 --> 01:21:05.510
but when you
3218
01:21:05.890 --> 01:21:08.760
release those same models for general use to academia,
3219
01:21:08.810 --> 01:21:09.190
for example,
3220
01:21:09.370 --> 01:21:09.730
that.
3221
01:21:10.060 --> 01:21:10.680
They can
3222
01:21:10.910 --> 01:21:13.020
do it for general purposes like in biology,
3223
01:21:13.100 --> 01:21:13.720
for example.
3224
01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:14.330
Wow,
3225
01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:16.440
this is a very nuanced argument you're making,
3226
01:21:16.700 --> 01:21:16.930
Nathan,
3227
01:21:17.020 --> 01:21:17.850
which I enjoy,
3228
01:21:17.940 --> 01:21:18.490
which is you're like,
3229
01:21:18.580 --> 01:21:19.030
look,
3230
01:21:19.340 --> 01:21:20.360
there are a lot of
3231
01:21:20.490 --> 01:21:23.200
positive prosocial institutions like
3232
01:21:23.330 --> 01:21:24.310
universities
3233
01:21:24.490 --> 01:21:26.110
that are going to use this AI
3234
01:21:26.380 --> 01:21:27.630
to do great things.
3235
01:21:28.200 --> 01:21:28.390
thing,
3236
01:21:28.720 --> 01:21:28.870
you know,
3237
01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:29.460
maybe some,
3238
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:29.980
uh,
3239
01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:31.150
drugs and some other things,
3240
01:21:31.400 --> 01:21:32.360
advanced solutions,
3241
01:21:32.390 --> 01:21:33.680
they're gonna use AI to do so,
3242
01:21:33.700 --> 01:21:36.950
so that AI and human well-being will actually be kind of
3243
01:21:36.950 --> 01:21:39.750
tied together and the market will optimize and like that,
3244
01:21:39.770 --> 01:21:43.180
that is like a very smart argument in part because
3245
01:21:43.440 --> 01:21:45.640
I don't disagree with you that that will happen.
3246
01:21:46.210 --> 01:21:48.430
Like I think that there are gonna be some good people
3247
01:21:48.650 --> 01:21:53.080
in academia and in other precincts that use these AI tools to do great things.
3248
01:21:53.130 --> 01:21:55.910
I do think that you're gonna have advances in life sciences,
3249
01:21:56.330 --> 01:21:57.270
advances in,
3250
01:21:57.290 --> 01:21:57.630
um,
3251
01:21:57.650 --> 01:21:59.520
drug discovery and bioinformatics,
3252
01:21:59.690 --> 01:21:59.800
uh,
3253
01:21:59.930 --> 01:22:01.410
and we're gonna have material,
3254
01:22:01.730 --> 01:22:01.880
uh,
3255
01:22:01.900 --> 01:22:02.590
cures
3256
01:22:02.700 --> 01:22:03.960
to some intractable,
3257
01:22:04.010 --> 01:22:04.180
you know,
3258
01:22:04.280 --> 01:22:06.550
it's like diseases that we haven't been able to solve for before,
3259
01:22:06.570 --> 01:22:07.960
and on that level,
3260
01:22:08.330 --> 01:22:08.920
it's.
3261
01:22:09.030 --> 01:22:09.650
Phenomenal.
3262
01:22:09.740 --> 01:22:11.320
The thing I'm going to say is that
3263
01:22:11.650 --> 01:22:15.920
what you're saying is to me like uh kind of uh off at an angle
3264
01:22:16.170 --> 01:22:18.490
for the market will optimize for productivity and profit,
3265
01:22:18.510 --> 01:22:19.500
not human dignity.
3266
01:22:19.620 --> 01:22:20.780
If you were to
3267
01:22:21.140 --> 01:22:21.440
say,
3268
01:22:21.820 --> 01:22:22.010
hey,
3269
01:22:22.070 --> 01:22:22.410
Andrew,
3270
01:22:22.430 --> 01:22:24.380
AI will be used to make some awesome things
3271
01:22:24.380 --> 01:22:26.040
happen and that'll be good for the human condition,
3272
01:22:26.300 --> 01:22:27.720
I would actually concede and agree.
3273
01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:28.490
You say,
3274
01:22:28.580 --> 01:22:28.770
hey,
3275
01:22:28.820 --> 01:22:30.570
the market will reward
3276
01:22:30.750 --> 01:22:31.850
human dignity over.
3277
01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:32.820
Productivity and profit,
3278
01:22:32.870 --> 01:22:33.980
then I would sharply disagree.
3279
01:22:34.030 --> 01:22:35.610
I think like the vast majority
3280
01:22:35.790 --> 01:22:38.330
of the instances and use cases and the beneficiaries
3281
01:22:38.510 --> 01:22:39.530
are going to be,
3282
01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:40.210
um,
3283
01:22:40.310 --> 01:22:40.540
very,
3284
01:22:40.590 --> 01:22:41.650
very much like,
3285
01:22:41.670 --> 01:22:42.050
uh,
3286
01:22:42.110 --> 01:22:45.050
profit oriented and that what what's gonna happen is
3287
01:22:45.310 --> 01:22:46.650
like the rich are gonna get richer,
3288
01:22:46.950 --> 01:22:47.370
um,
3289
01:22:47.430 --> 01:22:48.980
and the rich in this instance,
3290
01:22:49.070 --> 01:22:49.220
uh,
3291
01:22:49.310 --> 01:22:49.690
are,
3292
01:22:49.830 --> 01:22:51.410
it could be obviously like,
3293
01:22:51.430 --> 01:22:51.690
you know,
3294
01:22:51.710 --> 01:22:52.560
you're wealthy,
3295
01:22:52.860 --> 01:22:53.020
um,
3296
01:22:53.190 --> 01:22:54.770
but it's also like you're wealthy.
3297
01:22:54.970 --> 01:22:55.790
Access to data,
3298
01:22:55.860 --> 01:22:57.270
you're wealthy and like,
3299
01:22:57.320 --> 01:22:57.550
uh,
3300
01:22:57.680 --> 01:22:57.900
you know,
3301
01:22:58.040 --> 01:22:58.570
having
3302
01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:01.950
like a giant franchise the way that like uh Verizon
3303
01:23:01.950 --> 01:23:04.670
or Coca-Cola has like the market's gonna reward that and
3304
01:23:04.670 --> 01:23:07.270
the market's gonna reward corporations' ability to do more with
3305
01:23:07.270 --> 01:23:10.100
less and less in this instance is gonna mean human beings
3306
01:23:10.360 --> 01:23:12.470
and it's gonna be very bad for people broadly.
3307
01:23:12.490 --> 01:23:15.150
I think that's something to debate on whether how,
3308
01:23:15.280 --> 01:23:15.510
how,
3309
01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:15.790
how,
3310
01:23:15.880 --> 01:23:17.860
how close we're getting to that yet because.
3311
01:23:18.230 --> 01:23:18.420
You know,
3312
01:23:18.510 --> 01:23:20.260
I think with the current architecture,
3313
01:23:20.350 --> 01:23:21.210
even there's
3314
01:23:21.430 --> 01:23:22.140
thoughts of like,
3315
01:23:22.270 --> 01:23:22.670
hey,
3316
01:23:22.990 --> 01:23:24.860
when you start running super long tasks,
3317
01:23:24.910 --> 01:23:27.020
your performance starts to degrade and things like that.
3318
01:23:27.110 --> 01:23:27.220
I,
3319
01:23:27.350 --> 01:23:27.830
I just feel like,
3320
01:23:28.310 --> 01:23:29.400
do you think there's a way
3321
01:23:29.610 --> 01:23:29.890
since,
3322
01:23:30.070 --> 01:23:30.220
you know,
3323
01:23:30.270 --> 01:23:31.740
you implement UBI,
3324
01:23:31.830 --> 01:23:31.940
you,
3325
01:23:32.070 --> 01:23:34.700
you thought about it before AI was even in the mainstream,
3326
01:23:34.790 --> 01:23:34.980
right?
3327
01:23:35.380 --> 01:23:36.000
Is it
3328
01:23:36.140 --> 01:23:36.260
right,
3329
01:23:36.660 --> 01:23:36.940
obvious,
3330
01:23:37.070 --> 01:23:37.220
um,
3331
01:23:37.320 --> 01:23:38.180
but Nathan,
3332
01:23:38.390 --> 01:23:39.540
I want to make a pitch to everyone.
3333
01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:40.300
This is important to me,
3334
01:23:40.390 --> 01:23:40.540
very,
3335
01:23:40.610 --> 01:23:41.260
very important to me.
3336
01:23:41.430 --> 01:23:43.980
The proposal is the market will optimize for productivity and profit.
3337
01:23:44.140 --> 01:23:45.250
But not human dignity.
3338
01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:47.590
I want everyone to imagine what a market would
3339
01:23:47.590 --> 01:23:49.880
look like if it was optimized for human dignity,
3340
01:23:50.240 --> 01:23:50.390
um,
3341
01:23:50.630 --> 01:23:53.780
because that to me is actually the project of this age
3342
01:23:53.880 --> 01:23:56.340
to put it in terms that I think most people can understand,
3343
01:23:56.360 --> 01:23:58.750
and this is one of the biggest misconceptions about me is
3344
01:23:58.750 --> 01:24:01.270
that I think that universal basic income is the solve.
3345
01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:02.120
I do not.
3346
01:24:02.160 --> 01:24:04.480
I think universal basic income is the foundation,
3347
01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:05.070
uh,
3348
01:24:05.160 --> 01:24:05.770
or the floor,
3349
01:24:05.810 --> 01:24:07.270
and then you need to build the house.
3350
01:24:07.520 --> 01:24:10.020
So the house is how do people get.
3351
01:24:10.480 --> 01:24:10.970
Purpose,
3352
01:24:11.390 --> 01:24:11.740
structure,
3353
01:24:11.870 --> 01:24:12.260
joy,
3354
01:24:12.310 --> 01:24:12.940
fulfillment,
3355
01:24:13.150 --> 01:24:14.100
community values,
3356
01:24:14.150 --> 01:24:15.170
a place to go
3357
01:24:15.510 --> 01:24:18.810
in an era when AI and machines are gonna do more and more of the work.
3358
01:24:19.150 --> 01:24:19.610
And to me,
3359
01:24:19.630 --> 01:24:23.540
the way you get there is you actually try and optimize for and reward
3360
01:24:23.850 --> 01:24:25.080
human flourishing
3361
01:24:25.270 --> 01:24:26.030
via
3362
01:24:26.710 --> 01:24:29.140
measuring and benefiting health and wellness.
3363
01:24:29.270 --> 01:24:29.650
And my,
3364
01:24:29.710 --> 01:24:29.860
uh,
3365
01:24:29.950 --> 01:24:32.860
and my joke here is that at this point we should be getting paid to go to the gym.
3366
01:24:33.370 --> 01:24:34.280
I want everyone to think about that.
3367
01:24:34.340 --> 01:24:35.860
We should be getting paid to go to the gym
3368
01:24:36.130 --> 01:24:38.510
and the personal trainer who's there whipping us into shape should,
3369
01:24:38.610 --> 01:24:39.580
should get paid too.
3370
01:24:39.930 --> 01:24:40.230
Not,
3371
01:24:40.370 --> 01:24:40.440
yeah,
3372
01:24:40.530 --> 01:24:41.200
not necessarily by me,
3373
01:24:41.250 --> 01:24:42.910
but like if you think about it societally,
3374
01:24:42.970 --> 01:24:44.580
that like that would actually be a win.
3375
01:24:44.890 --> 01:24:47.630
And so you would build a health and wellness economy and in my view,
3376
01:24:47.650 --> 01:24:49.350
you'd actually have a new currency for that.
3377
01:24:49.790 --> 01:24:50.120
Then you have,
3378
01:24:50.140 --> 01:24:53.620
you'd have an arts and creativity economy and have a new currency for that.
3379
01:24:53.910 --> 01:24:54.890
And then you'd have
3380
01:24:55.150 --> 01:24:57.660
uh an education and nurturing and caretaking economy,
3381
01:24:57.680 --> 01:24:58.890
you'd have a currency for that.
3382
01:24:59.150 --> 01:25:00.030
That is what
3383
01:25:00.190 --> 01:25:02.930
a market that's actually designed to optimize for us
3384
01:25:03.070 --> 01:25:04.070
would look like.
3385
01:25:04.350 --> 01:25:06.290
In the absence of any of those things.
3386
01:25:06.790 --> 01:25:09.900
This market will optimize for is capital efficiency.
3387
01:25:10.550 --> 01:25:12.840
How can I get the work done as quickly
3388
01:25:12.990 --> 01:25:14.220
and cheaply as possible?
3389
01:25:14.310 --> 01:25:15.790
And the answer to that is going to be AI.
3390
01:25:15.990 --> 01:25:16.460
I just wonder.
3391
01:25:17.390 --> 01:25:18.410
Thank you so much.
3392
01:25:18.590 --> 01:25:18.850
Thank you,
3393
01:25:18.950 --> 01:25:19.470
Nathan.
3394
01:25:19.800 --> 01:25:20.340
It's great.
3395
01:25:20.520 --> 01:25:21.380
I thought that might be true.
3396
01:25:21.590 --> 01:25:23.660
321.
3397
01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:27.290
Hey there.
3398
01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:27.670
Hey,
3399
01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:28.350
nice to meet you.
3400
01:25:28.440 --> 01:25:29.110
Nice to meet you too.
3401
01:25:29.280 --> 01:25:29.670
Welcome.
3402
01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:31.330
I actually want to
3403
01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:34.140
refer back to some of your other claims
3404
01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:35.640
to contend
3405
01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:36.870
with your current claim.
3406
01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:37.420
Ultimately,
3407
01:25:37.440 --> 01:25:38.100
I think
3408
01:25:38.280 --> 01:25:39.660
there are different levels
3409
01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:42.020
of uh tolerance that people have
3410
01:25:42.190 --> 01:25:43.710
for their circumstances,
3411
01:25:44.240 --> 01:25:46.980
and if the market only optimizes for
3412
01:25:47.240 --> 01:25:48.260
productivity
3413
01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:49.180
and
3414
01:25:49.480 --> 01:25:50.430
um efficiency.
3415
01:25:51.090 --> 01:25:53.810
There's going to be a threshold that it passes
3416
01:25:54.090 --> 01:25:54.760
where
3417
01:25:55.000 --> 01:25:57.450
human dignity being negatively affected
3418
01:25:57.730 --> 01:25:58.910
has a reverse effect.
3419
01:25:59.130 --> 01:25:59.590
You've
3420
01:25:59.730 --> 01:26:00.640
referred to malady,
3421
01:26:00.730 --> 01:26:02.480
I mean some of your other arguments,
3422
01:26:02.570 --> 01:26:03.550
and I agree with that.
3423
01:26:03.690 --> 01:26:05.040
People are going to riot,
3424
01:26:05.210 --> 01:26:05.360
uh,
3425
01:26:05.490 --> 01:26:06.670
people are going to
3426
01:26:07.730 --> 01:26:09.230
just go into complete discord.
3427
01:26:09.460 --> 01:26:12.310
That's going to completely disrupt any of the
3428
01:26:12.470 --> 01:26:14.730
market efficiencies that we would see from AI.
3429
01:26:14.810 --> 01:26:16.000
I'm enjoying this conversation a lot,
3430
01:26:16.060 --> 01:26:16.320
Donnie.
3431
01:26:16.410 --> 01:26:16.750
So,
3432
01:26:17.090 --> 01:26:17.960
so what you're saying is like,
3433
01:26:18.050 --> 01:26:18.440
look,
3434
01:26:19.040 --> 01:26:19.460
If
3435
01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:21.170
AI stampedes
3436
01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:22.470
human dignity
3437
01:26:22.710 --> 01:26:23.310
super badly,
3438
01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:26.510
then there's gonna be a backlash and then you're gonna wind up in a different place,
3439
01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:28.270
so it will not stampede human dignity.
3440
01:26:28.440 --> 01:26:28.620
Yes,
3441
01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:30.780
I think there's going to be um
3442
01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:31.990
an inflection point
3443
01:26:32.120 --> 01:26:32.700
where
3444
01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:33.560
it might,
3445
01:26:33.800 --> 01:26:35.300
the original goal will be.
3446
01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:36.740
Productivity and profit,
3447
01:26:36.790 --> 01:26:37.120
of course,
3448
01:26:37.310 --> 01:26:37.460
yeah,
3449
01:26:37.630 --> 01:26:38.380
has always been the case,
3450
01:26:38.470 --> 01:26:40.850
but because the scales are so radically different,
3451
01:26:41.110 --> 01:26:42.210
we're not going to see,
3452
01:26:42.350 --> 01:26:42.580
um,
3453
01:26:42.630 --> 01:26:44.420
the complacency that we see now where
3454
01:26:44.790 --> 01:26:47.090
enough people are satisfied with their living conditions.
3455
01:26:48.460 --> 01:26:50.540
I love this argument so much because it's literally
3456
01:26:50.540 --> 01:26:52.410
how I spend most of my waking hours.
3457
01:26:53.240 --> 01:26:53.300
No,
3458
01:26:53.350 --> 01:26:53.950
genuinely,
3459
01:26:54.150 --> 01:26:54.580
so check it out.
3460
01:26:54.710 --> 01:26:55.170
Check it out.
3461
01:26:55.490 --> 01:26:55.640
Um,
3462
01:26:55.770 --> 01:26:56.720
what Donnie's saying is,
3463
01:26:56.850 --> 01:26:57.300
look,
3464
01:26:57.730 --> 01:27:00.430
like if AI continues to optimize for,
3465
01:27:00.690 --> 01:27:00.760
uh,
3466
01:27:00.930 --> 01:27:01.800
the almighty dollar,
3467
01:27:01.890 --> 01:27:03.880
then more and more people are going to get pissed off and ticked off,
3468
01:27:03.900 --> 01:27:04.640
and then they're gonna
3469
01:27:04.830 --> 01:27:05.120
say like,
3470
01:27:05.210 --> 01:27:05.320
hey,
3471
01:27:05.410 --> 01:27:06.640
we need to change it and make it,
3472
01:27:06.730 --> 01:27:06.960
make it,
3473
01:27:07.170 --> 01:27:08.270
make it so that things are different.
3474
01:27:08.370 --> 01:27:11.000
I ran for president on that case,
3475
01:27:11.250 --> 01:27:11.850
more or less.
3476
01:27:11.970 --> 01:27:13.430
One of my great learnings.
3477
01:27:13.690 --> 01:27:16.660
From both that experience and the past number of years
3478
01:27:16.820 --> 01:27:20.670
has been that the American political system is not really designed to solve
3479
01:27:20.670 --> 01:27:24.300
our problems or optimize for human dignity in the way that you're describing.
3480
01:27:24.480 --> 01:27:27.780
It's actually designed to kind of divide us and pit us against each other
3481
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.580
and refract our problems and just uh and
3482
01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:33.660
and continue to let the mega corps
3483
01:27:33.860 --> 01:27:34.680
have their way.
3484
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:36.830
So what you're suggesting is.
3485
01:27:37.020 --> 01:27:38.710
One thing that I would love for you to be right about,
3486
01:27:38.770 --> 01:27:39.740
which is that look,
3487
01:27:40.090 --> 01:27:42.990
people are going to rise up and demand real change this time,
3488
01:27:43.010 --> 01:27:44.630
and that's going to have to come from some
3489
01:27:44.650 --> 01:27:46.940
kind of modernization or change to the political system,
3490
01:27:46.970 --> 01:27:47.530
in my opinion,
3491
01:27:47.660 --> 01:27:50.390
because I do not think that the current American political system actually
3492
01:27:50.640 --> 01:27:51.680
can solve this problem.
3493
01:27:51.810 --> 01:27:52.520
So you need a different,
3494
01:27:52.650 --> 01:27:53.240
better version.
3495
01:27:53.390 --> 01:27:54.200
So if you agree with that,
3496
01:27:54.250 --> 01:27:55.210
then you and I are totally,
3497
01:27:55.330 --> 01:27:57.520
so there's a slight deviation in our agreement.
3498
01:27:57.650 --> 01:27:57.920
So,
3499
01:27:58.690 --> 01:27:58.800
yeah,
3500
01:27:58.970 --> 01:27:59.630
so I think
3501
01:27:59.770 --> 01:28:00.240
it's not going.
3502
01:28:00.380 --> 01:28:01.980
To be about demanding change,
3503
01:28:02.060 --> 01:28:03.480
it's going to be forcing change.
3504
01:28:03.630 --> 01:28:05.250
That's like ultimately where we're going to end.
3505
01:28:05.450 --> 01:28:05.460
No,
3506
01:28:05.540 --> 01:28:05.690
I'm,
3507
01:28:05.740 --> 01:28:06.490
I'm with you there too,
3508
01:28:06.580 --> 01:28:06.650
man.
3509
01:28:07.070 --> 01:28:07.170
I love you.
3510
01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:07.890
We love you and
3511
01:28:08.660 --> 01:28:08.890
Johnny,
3512
01:28:08.980 --> 01:28:11.310
I knew you were a smart man before you sat down.
3513
01:28:11.380 --> 01:28:12.290
Then after you introduced yourself,
3514
01:28:12.340 --> 01:28:12.690
I was like,
3515
01:28:12.740 --> 01:28:13.110
jeez man,
3516
01:28:13.180 --> 01:28:14.640
neuroscience from Johns Hopkins.
3517
01:28:14.900 --> 01:28:16.360
I better not disagree with this guy.
3518
01:28:16.580 --> 01:28:18.040
And it turns out I don't.
3519
01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:18.960
Yeah,
3520
01:28:19.450 --> 01:28:19.460
I
3521
01:28:19.620 --> 01:28:20.730
have to pause here.
3522
01:28:21.170 --> 01:28:22.290
You've been voted out,
3523
01:28:22.420 --> 01:28:22.730
OK,
3524
01:28:22.940 --> 01:28:23.680
dude,
3525
01:28:24.260 --> 01:28:25.320
I hope you're right.
3526
01:28:26.970 --> 01:28:29.250
I literally spent all my time trying to make you right.
3527
01:28:29.470 --> 01:28:30.880
If you'd like to be the next debater,
3528
01:28:31.010 --> 01:28:34.760
please get to that chair in 321.
3529
01:28:37.060 --> 01:28:37.570
Hi,
3530
01:28:37.820 --> 01:28:38.500
I'm Jeremiah.
3531
01:28:38.620 --> 01:28:39.170
Hey Jeremiah,
3532
01:28:39.220 --> 01:28:39.610
Andrew,
3533
01:28:39.740 --> 01:28:40.250
nice to meet you.
3534
01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:41.660
I'd love to hear a little bit about you.
3535
01:28:41.820 --> 01:28:42.130
Yeah,
3536
01:28:42.300 --> 01:28:43.940
so I'm a psychotherapist,
3537
01:28:44.220 --> 01:28:46.690
and I think before we go into the topic,
3538
01:28:46.940 --> 01:28:48.800
can I address a couple of things that you said about,
3539
01:28:48.940 --> 01:28:49.210
um,
3540
01:28:49.420 --> 01:28:50.010
psychotherapy?
3541
01:28:50.700 --> 01:28:51.040
Yeah,
3542
01:28:51.340 --> 01:28:52.260
so I would.
3543
01:28:52.600 --> 01:28:53.030
that
3544
01:28:53.360 --> 01:28:54.230
my profession,
3545
01:28:54.400 --> 01:28:58.300
we are probably going to be the last to be replaced just because of all the human
3546
01:28:58.440 --> 01:28:59.980
interactions that's required.
3547
01:29:00.180 --> 01:29:02.930
But you mentioned before that the reason why
3548
01:29:02.930 --> 01:29:05.540
they felt more comfortable with the AI was because
3549
01:29:05.720 --> 01:29:08.190
they just felt more comfortable talking to an AI than a human.
3550
01:29:08.480 --> 01:29:09.940
The reason being is because
3551
01:29:10.080 --> 01:29:11.630
the um the military,
3552
01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:13.580
I might be telling military secrets,
3553
01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:16.070
the military contracts out
3554
01:29:16.200 --> 01:29:19.070
to therapists to talk with their uh military personnel,
3555
01:29:19.370 --> 01:29:21.580
but what people don't know is that even
3556
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:24.380
though we're sworn to privacy and confidentiality,
3557
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:26.340
not when it comes to the military,
3558
01:29:26.520 --> 01:29:28.680
we have to send our notes to.
3559
01:29:28.700 --> 01:29:30.120
Their superiors and then
3560
01:29:30.480 --> 01:29:31.390
and guess what,
3561
01:29:31.960 --> 01:29:32.220
right,
3562
01:29:32.250 --> 01:29:32.770
and the,
3563
01:29:32.890 --> 01:29:33.590
the vets,
3564
01:29:33.730 --> 01:29:35.000
if they get depression,
3565
01:29:35.210 --> 01:29:35.680
anxiety,
3566
01:29:35.770 --> 01:29:36.800
PTSD on the job,
3567
01:29:36.850 --> 01:29:37.630
they're discharged.
3568
01:29:37.690 --> 01:29:38.230
So that's that.
3569
01:29:38.330 --> 01:29:38.520
OK,
3570
01:29:38.650 --> 01:29:40.160
so now what thank you for sharing that Jeremiah.
3571
01:29:40.210 --> 01:29:40.340
Yeah,
3572
01:29:40.370 --> 01:29:40.730
of course.
3573
01:29:41.010 --> 01:29:41.190
Also,
3574
01:29:41.210 --> 01:29:42.230
I just want to say quickly,
3575
01:29:42.650 --> 01:29:43.360
my brother,
3576
01:29:43.410 --> 01:29:43.750
um,
3577
01:29:43.890 --> 01:29:45.360
was trained as a clinical psychologist,
3578
01:29:45.450 --> 01:29:46.310
so I have like huge,
3579
01:29:46.610 --> 01:29:46.840
uh,
3580
01:29:47.050 --> 01:29:48.410
regard and respect for the work you do.
3581
01:29:48.530 --> 01:29:48.880
Thank you.
3582
01:29:49.240 --> 01:29:49.580
Um,
3583
01:29:49.720 --> 01:29:50.100
so,
3584
01:29:50.220 --> 01:29:51.110
what I wanna say is,
3585
01:29:51.280 --> 01:29:53.820
I think we're looking at dignity in the wrong way.
3586
01:29:54.010 --> 01:29:54.820
So the thing is,
3587
01:29:55.120 --> 01:29:58.770
most people are not working in a job that they really want to be in,
3588
01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:01.750
and I'll say most because I'm not gonna use absolutes like you did.
3589
01:30:01.830 --> 01:30:02.790
I'm gonna say all,
3590
01:30:02.960 --> 01:30:03.350
cause I mean,
3591
01:30:03.400 --> 01:30:04.830
that's a cognitive distortion.
3592
01:30:05.040 --> 01:30:06.190
The world is not black and white,
3593
01:30:06.240 --> 01:30:07.550
it's 50 shades of gray.
3594
01:30:07.680 --> 01:30:08.110
I don't know if you guys,
3595
01:30:08.240 --> 01:30:08.350
OK,
3596
01:30:08.480 --> 01:30:09.020
there we go.
3597
01:30:09.360 --> 01:30:10.140
So the thing is,
3598
01:30:10.400 --> 01:30:10.990
the dignity,
3599
01:30:11.130 --> 01:30:11.750
so if,
3600
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:14.570
if people are not in jobs that they really want to be doing,
3601
01:30:14.860 --> 01:30:16.730
Then they're not gonna be really dignified or
3602
01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:18.640
having a sense of self-worth in it,
3603
01:30:18.730 --> 01:30:19.040
right?
3604
01:30:19.380 --> 01:30:19.710
So
3605
01:30:19.840 --> 01:30:22.850
we need to shift that to make people have dignity and worth
3606
01:30:23.010 --> 01:30:24.320
in roles other than that,
3607
01:30:24.460 --> 01:30:24.640
right?
3608
01:30:24.890 --> 01:30:25.680
A good father,
3609
01:30:25.810 --> 01:30:26.510
a good husband,
3610
01:30:26.650 --> 01:30:27.230
good wife,
3611
01:30:27.490 --> 01:30:28.110
good friend.
3612
01:30:28.450 --> 01:30:30.880
So what I will bring this whole thing together is
3613
01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:34.070
I actually believe that AI with the displacement of jobs,
3614
01:30:34.310 --> 01:30:35.600
so I use Waymo,
3615
01:30:35.810 --> 01:30:36.880
not Uber and Lyft.
3616
01:30:37.160 --> 01:30:38.800
So let's say an Uber and Lyft driver,
3617
01:30:38.930 --> 01:30:39.160
right?
3618
01:30:39.370 --> 01:30:42.060
They might not have a lot of dignity and worth transporting people,
3619
01:30:42.290 --> 01:30:44.560
but Because there are professions right now,
3620
01:30:44.740 --> 01:30:45.850
like health care,
3621
01:30:46.100 --> 01:30:46.910
mental health,
3622
01:30:47.060 --> 01:30:48.040
elder care,
3623
01:30:48.460 --> 01:30:50.050
we need that stuff now.
3624
01:30:50.100 --> 01:30:51.240
We need to be filled now.
3625
01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:53.010
So when people get displaced,
3626
01:30:53.180 --> 01:30:53.330
right,
3627
01:30:53.420 --> 01:30:54.170
and they're unemployed,
3628
01:30:54.220 --> 01:30:55.920
which they're not gonna be very dignified
3629
01:30:56.120 --> 01:30:57.020
being unemployed,
3630
01:30:57.260 --> 01:30:59.160
they can assume these positions.
3631
01:30:59.300 --> 01:31:00.920
Helping fields have proven,
3632
01:31:01.160 --> 01:31:01.940
fact check me,
3633
01:31:02.190 --> 01:31:05.800
people that work in helping fields feel the purpose that you were talking about.
3634
01:31:05.900 --> 01:31:08.710
They're gonna feel more self-dignity and higher self-worth
3635
01:31:08.850 --> 01:31:10.210
working and filling these positions.
3636
01:31:10.380 --> 01:31:10.780
That we need,
3637
01:31:10.870 --> 01:31:11.100
right?
3638
01:31:11.390 --> 01:31:11.700
Teachers,
3639
01:31:11.750 --> 01:31:12.930
I think are still teaching
3640
01:31:13.130 --> 01:31:14.570
one teacher to 30 students.
3641
01:31:14.710 --> 01:31:16.990
It should be like one teacher to 15 students,
3642
01:31:17.110 --> 01:31:17.340
right?
3643
01:31:17.790 --> 01:31:20.570
So if we spend money to create more schools,
3644
01:31:20.830 --> 01:31:21.090
more,
3645
01:31:21.230 --> 01:31:21.380
um,
3646
01:31:21.430 --> 01:31:22.180
elderly care,
3647
01:31:22.270 --> 01:31:22.420
more,
3648
01:31:22.550 --> 01:31:22.620
um,
3649
01:31:22.790 --> 01:31:23.740
skilled nursing facilities,
3650
01:31:23.870 --> 01:31:24.620
all these things,
3651
01:31:24.790 --> 01:31:26.490
then these displaced workers
3652
01:31:26.660 --> 01:31:30.050
will have jobs and their dignity and self-worth will improve
3653
01:31:30.180 --> 01:31:31.510
just from their job alone,
3654
01:31:31.710 --> 01:31:34.370
besides what I said before of them trying to find different
3655
01:31:34.470 --> 01:31:36.670
roles to make them their self-esteem improve.
3656
01:31:36.830 --> 01:31:37.940
I love the direction.
3657
01:31:38.530 --> 01:31:39.390
Agree
3658
01:31:39.530 --> 01:31:43.150
that more of us should be spending our time making people
3659
01:31:43.290 --> 01:31:43.960
healthier,
3660
01:31:44.130 --> 01:31:45.050
connected,
3661
01:31:45.250 --> 01:31:46.160
better educated,
3662
01:31:46.290 --> 01:31:46.650
etc.
3663
01:31:46.690 --> 01:31:47.120
etc.
3664
01:31:47.370 --> 01:31:49.470
I'm going to argue that you just made
3665
01:31:49.640 --> 01:31:50.690
my case for me.
3666
01:31:51.210 --> 01:31:51.400
Um,
3667
01:31:51.570 --> 01:31:54.560
which is that the market will optimize for productivity and growth,
3668
01:31:54.650 --> 01:31:55.640
not human dignity.
3669
01:31:56.050 --> 01:31:56.200
Um,
3670
01:31:56.450 --> 01:31:59.200
so all of the helping professions that you're describing,
3671
01:31:59.450 --> 01:32:00.470
one could argue,
3672
01:32:00.810 --> 01:32:03.780
are under-resourced in part because the market
3673
01:32:04.060 --> 01:32:04.670
does not
3674
01:32:04.880 --> 01:32:05.940
recognize
3675
01:32:06.080 --> 01:32:08.680
the well-being that is being brought through them.
3676
01:32:09.040 --> 01:32:09.270
Um,
3677
01:32:09.440 --> 01:32:10.880
adequately or appropriately,
3678
01:32:11.360 --> 01:32:11.630
and the,
3679
01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:13.570
and the example I could use
3680
01:32:13.800 --> 01:32:15.460
is that if you're an excellent teacher,
3681
01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:17.500
studies have shown that you produce
3682
01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:18.850
a ton of value
3683
01:32:19.160 --> 01:32:20.830
for your students and,
3684
01:32:20.850 --> 01:32:20.910
uh,
3685
01:32:21.080 --> 01:32:21.390
um,
3686
01:32:21.560 --> 01:32:22.310
over their lifetime,
3687
01:32:22.400 --> 01:32:24.010
but that teacher does not get rewarded.
3688
01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:24.840
My wife,
3689
01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:25.420
who is,
3690
01:32:25.560 --> 01:32:25.860
um,
3691
01:32:26.040 --> 01:32:28.510
at home very often with our autistic son,
3692
01:32:28.680 --> 01:32:30.810
the market values her work at zero.
3693
01:32:31.320 --> 01:32:33.060
So I think you and I are completely
3694
01:32:33.280 --> 01:32:33.590
aligned.
3695
01:32:34.070 --> 01:32:36.020
In that the market does not reward
3696
01:32:36.380 --> 01:32:37.780
human dignity in the way that it should.
3697
01:32:38.310 --> 01:32:38.460
Yeah,
3698
01:32:38.630 --> 01:32:39.020
and I,
3699
01:32:39.150 --> 01:32:39.860
but what I'm saying is,
3700
01:32:39.910 --> 01:32:40.220
I mean,
3701
01:32:40.490 --> 01:32:40.800
that,
3702
01:32:40.820 --> 01:32:41.860
that is sort of obvious,
3703
01:32:41.910 --> 01:32:44.370
but what I'm saying is that people need to
3704
01:32:44.470 --> 01:32:46.850
get their dignity and worth outside of work,
3705
01:32:47.500 --> 01:32:47.680
right?
3706
01:32:47.870 --> 01:32:48.210
So,
3707
01:32:48.430 --> 01:32:48.490
they,
3708
01:32:48.670 --> 01:32:50.100
you said AI is displacing them with,
3709
01:32:50.150 --> 01:32:50.300
I,
3710
01:32:50.430 --> 01:32:51.180
we already talked about it,
3711
01:32:51.260 --> 01:32:51.580
AI,
3712
01:32:51.630 --> 01:32:52.130
um,
3713
01:32:52.310 --> 01:32:52.800
Uber,
3714
01:32:53.110 --> 01:32:53.890
all that stuff.
3715
01:32:54.130 --> 01:32:55.650
So what I'm saying is that they can
3716
01:32:55.750 --> 01:32:57.580
reclaim their dignity and worth
3717
01:32:57.750 --> 01:32:58.330
and
3718
01:32:58.700 --> 01:33:01.640
Improve it by going in these fields that are already
3719
01:33:01.820 --> 01:33:02.850
kind of short staffed.
3720
01:33:03.100 --> 01:33:03.270
Um,
3721
01:33:03.460 --> 01:33:03.970
pause here.
3722
01:33:04.020 --> 01:33:05.460
We're out of time for this claim
3723
01:33:06.020 --> 01:33:06.530
so much.
3724
01:33:06.680 --> 01:33:06.810
I,
3725
01:33:06.900 --> 01:33:07.020
I'm,
3726
01:33:07.220 --> 01:33:08.140
I'm pretty much on board.
3727
01:33:10.790 --> 01:33:11.590
In the sense of like,
3728
01:33:11.670 --> 01:33:12.070
you know,
3729
01:33:12.350 --> 01:33:13.450
I would love to fuel human
3730
01:33:13.550 --> 01:33:13.680
performance.
3731
01:33:14.030 --> 01:33:14.500
All right,
3732
01:33:14.590 --> 01:33:16.020
so now it is time for the final.
3733
01:33:16.500 --> 01:33:16.650
debate,
3734
01:33:16.820 --> 01:33:17.690
great debate so far.
3735
01:33:17.780 --> 01:33:19.600
It's been like a friendly conversation.
3736
01:33:20.190 --> 01:33:20.850
If you're enjoying it.
3737
01:33:20.930 --> 01:33:21.130
You know,
3738
01:33:21.150 --> 01:33:25.070
I have boxing gloves strapped to the underside of this table,
3739
01:33:25.540 --> 01:33:26.230
but didn't need them.
3740
01:33:26.300 --> 01:33:26.850
Don't need them.
3741
01:33:26.900 --> 01:33:27.450
I don't think so.
3742
01:33:27.500 --> 01:33:29.250
Maybe because now it's time for the final debate.
3743
01:33:29.500 --> 01:33:30.410
use them for defense.
3744
01:33:30.860 --> 01:33:33.330
You get 10 minutes now uninterrupted.
3745
01:33:33.620 --> 01:33:35.730
So take your time and look around the circle.
3746
01:33:36.250 --> 01:33:39.020
And check for anyone you wanna continue the conversation with,
3747
01:33:39.050 --> 01:33:40.120
someone who impressed you.
3748
01:33:40.170 --> 01:33:40.670
You know what?
3749
01:33:40.730 --> 01:33:45.730
I enjoyed my conversation with the hosts of uh MTS,
3750
01:33:45.850 --> 01:33:46.000
um,
3751
01:33:46.050 --> 01:33:46.250
but I,
3752
01:33:46.290 --> 01:33:47.530
I feel like I didn't have enough time with,
3753
01:33:47.570 --> 01:33:48.180
um,
3754
01:33:48.250 --> 01:33:48.920
Sophia,
3755
01:33:49.080 --> 01:33:49.760
come on up.
3756
01:33:49.930 --> 01:33:50.040
Yeah,
3757
01:33:50.130 --> 01:33:51.160
let's give her a round of applause,
3758
01:33:51.240 --> 01:33:52.200
yay.
3759
01:33:52.950 --> 01:33:53.310
Pleasure.
3760
01:33:53.780 --> 01:33:54.630
It's great to see you again.
3761
01:33:54.940 --> 01:33:55.170
OK,
3762
01:33:55.340 --> 01:33:55.690
Andrew,
3763
01:33:55.820 --> 01:33:57.100
why did you choose Sophia?
3764
01:33:57.180 --> 01:33:59.960
I felt like we were having a good conversation that was cut short.
3765
01:34:00.220 --> 01:34:02.920
She had nuanced and smart viewpoints,
3766
01:34:02.940 --> 01:34:03.210
and I,
3767
01:34:03.260 --> 01:34:05.010
I wanted to be able to explore them further.
3768
01:34:05.460 --> 01:34:09.520
My surrounded claim is that being an AI optimist is necessary
3769
01:34:09.540 --> 01:34:13.280
to get through this next period of immense technological transformation.
3770
01:34:13.490 --> 01:34:14.570
I'm not sure I entirely disagree.
3771
01:34:14.730 --> 01:34:15.070
With you,
3772
01:34:15.210 --> 01:34:15.400
um,
3773
01:34:15.530 --> 01:34:16.120
being honest,
3774
01:34:16.370 --> 01:34:18.640
because I think being optimistic is a very good thing,
3775
01:34:18.890 --> 01:34:19.000
uh,
3776
01:34:19.130 --> 01:34:19.800
in our own lives,
3777
01:34:19.940 --> 01:34:22.460
certainly if you're an entrepreneur or the head of an organization,
3778
01:34:22.610 --> 01:34:23.600
if you come in with
3779
01:34:23.850 --> 01:34:26.200
doom and gloom and pessimism and like woe is me,
3780
01:34:26.290 --> 01:34:26.710
then
3781
01:34:26.900 --> 01:34:27.730
no one wants to be around you,
3782
01:34:27.850 --> 01:34:28.570
no one wants to listen to you,
3783
01:34:28.590 --> 01:34:29.960
you're probably not gonna get a whole lot done.
3784
01:34:30.010 --> 01:34:30.250
So I,
3785
01:34:30.370 --> 01:34:31.690
I think being optimistic
3786
01:34:32.010 --> 01:34:33.590
in that sense is
3787
01:34:33.890 --> 01:34:34.790
the right approach.
3788
01:34:34.930 --> 01:34:36.380
What frustrates me.
3789
01:34:36.700 --> 01:34:38.700
Is when folks adopt
3790
01:34:39.040 --> 01:34:42.910
uh attitudes about AI that strike me as overly optimistic
3791
01:34:43.040 --> 01:34:46.710
um or not grounded in empirical fact and reality.
3792
01:34:46.840 --> 01:34:46.950
Uh,
3793
01:34:47.080 --> 01:34:47.940
there's one
3794
01:34:48.360 --> 01:34:51.350
statement um from a journalist named Upton Sinclair
3795
01:34:51.350 --> 01:34:52.670
that I think some of you guys remember.
3796
01:34:52.760 --> 01:34:55.180
It's like it's hard to convince a man of a fact
3797
01:34:55.400 --> 01:34:58.540
when his living depends upon him not believing it.
3798
01:34:59.620 --> 01:34:59.680
Like,
3799
01:34:59.840 --> 01:35:00.190
like that,
3800
01:35:00.240 --> 01:35:03.420
I think that's actually a pretty good summary of some of the
3801
01:35:03.610 --> 01:35:05.660
frustration I feel with some folks in the space.
3802
01:35:05.800 --> 01:35:06.030
Yeah,
3803
01:35:06.160 --> 01:35:07.780
I definitely understand that,
3804
01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:11.350
and I would say one of the misconceptions about being an AI optimist
3805
01:35:11.350 --> 01:35:15.630
is that you're blindly accepting everything that everyone says is going to happen,
3806
01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:19.390
and it actually means how do we amplify our own agency?
3807
01:35:19.480 --> 01:35:21.390
How do we actually act on that agency?
3808
01:35:21.560 --> 01:35:22.630
And I think technology,
3809
01:35:22.910 --> 01:35:23.710
especially AI,
3810
01:35:23.880 --> 01:35:27.960
is one of the Best tools to empower ourselves to act on our agency,
3811
01:35:27.980 --> 01:35:29.720
and I would urge everyone in this room,
3812
01:35:30.090 --> 01:35:30.800
everyone watching,
3813
01:35:30.930 --> 01:35:32.360
every single person in this world,
3814
01:35:32.490 --> 01:35:35.390
they do have an important role to play in shaping the future,
3815
01:35:35.570 --> 01:35:37.960
and pessimism is what keeps them powerless.
3816
01:35:38.090 --> 01:35:41.270
Pessimism and fear mongering is a a tactic
3817
01:35:41.400 --> 01:35:42.000
from governments,
3818
01:35:42.130 --> 01:35:43.470
authoritarian governments,
3819
01:35:43.570 --> 01:35:43.910
to
3820
01:35:44.010 --> 01:35:45.590
get us to not want
3821
01:35:45.730 --> 01:35:46.240
to act.
3822
01:35:46.290 --> 01:35:46.480
All right,
3823
01:35:46.580 --> 01:35:46.950
check it out.
3824
01:35:46.970 --> 01:35:47.290
Check it out.
3825
01:35:47.450 --> 01:35:47.560
I'm,
3826
01:35:47.730 --> 01:35:48.700
I'm going to like try and
3827
01:35:48.810 --> 01:35:49.790
layer layer this a little bit.
3828
01:35:50.420 --> 01:35:52.090
So I think it's possible,
3829
01:35:52.170 --> 01:35:54.290
possible to be personally optimistic
3830
01:35:54.580 --> 01:35:57.840
and then also clear-eyed about the magnitude of the challenges,
3831
01:35:57.900 --> 01:35:58.050
uh,
3832
01:35:58.180 --> 01:35:59.600
and the disruption and the changes.
3833
01:35:59.660 --> 01:36:01.240
And so I think most people know
3834
01:36:01.580 --> 01:36:02.040
that,
3835
01:36:02.260 --> 01:36:02.460
um,
3836
01:36:02.540 --> 01:36:03.560
I ran for office,
3837
01:36:03.820 --> 01:36:05.130
and I think if you run for office,
3838
01:36:05.220 --> 01:36:07.320
what you do is you expand your lens
3839
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:08.470
to include
3840
01:36:08.650 --> 01:36:09.360
people
3841
01:36:09.540 --> 01:36:12.770
that are going to get kicked to the curb or on the outside looking in or like,
3842
01:36:12.860 --> 01:36:13.010
you know,
3843
01:36:13.140 --> 01:36:15.330
didn't graduate from college and aren't realistically going to
3844
01:36:15.330 --> 01:36:17.480
be a beneficiary of this change or that change.
3845
01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:17.990
Um,
3846
01:36:18.130 --> 01:36:19.630
so on a micro level,
3847
01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:21.110
being optimistic,
3848
01:36:21.130 --> 01:36:22.110
I think is a plus.
3849
01:36:22.400 --> 01:36:23.320
On a macro level,
3850
01:36:23.400 --> 01:36:24.190
if your job,
3851
01:36:24.400 --> 01:36:25.060
and in my case,
3852
01:36:25.240 --> 01:36:25.390
you know,
3853
01:36:25.440 --> 01:36:27.230
it's like a job I kind of took on for myself,
3854
01:36:28.440 --> 01:36:29.730
but if your job is to
3855
01:36:29.920 --> 01:36:31.220
look out for people,
3856
01:36:31.530 --> 01:36:31.910
then I,
3857
01:36:31.960 --> 01:36:32.700
I think,
3858
01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:33.230
um,
3859
01:36:33.480 --> 01:36:34.030
being
3860
01:36:34.320 --> 01:36:37.320
clear-eyed or realistic or even slightly pessimistic
3861
01:36:37.430 --> 01:36:39.710
because one of the things that I've sensed in American life,
3862
01:36:39.800 --> 01:36:41.180
I just wanna throw this out to people,
3863
01:36:41.440 --> 01:36:43.240
is that there's actually a bias
3864
01:36:43.480 --> 01:36:44.160
towards.
3865
01:36:44.500 --> 01:36:46.370
Kind of like ad it'll be all right,
3866
01:36:46.440 --> 01:36:46.650
like,
3867
01:36:46.700 --> 01:36:47.450
like da da da,
3868
01:36:47.500 --> 01:36:51.930
it'll figure itself out like the market knows all and the rest of it that pervades a
3869
01:36:51.930 --> 01:36:54.130
lot of our thinking and institutions in part
3870
01:36:54.130 --> 01:36:56.880
because we're all brainwashed into being like you,
3871
01:36:57.100 --> 01:36:57.290
you,
3872
01:36:57.420 --> 01:36:57.570
you,
3873
01:36:57.660 --> 01:36:57.850
you,
3874
01:36:57.980 --> 01:36:58.170
you,
3875
01:36:58.300 --> 01:36:59.040
wherever you are,
3876
01:36:59.260 --> 01:37:00.320
you must be
3877
01:37:00.740 --> 01:37:02.020
market optimized.
3878
01:37:02.220 --> 01:37:02.810
And so,
3879
01:37:02.980 --> 01:37:03.250
you know,
3880
01:37:03.380 --> 01:37:04.050
and then I,
3881
01:37:04.180 --> 01:37:05.450
I'm gonna say realistically,
3882
01:37:05.500 --> 01:37:08.000
like a lot of people are gonna fail that test,
3883
01:37:08.300 --> 01:37:08.500
um,
3884
01:37:08.730 --> 01:37:11.010
because the bar to be market optimized is gonna go up.
3885
01:37:11.170 --> 01:37:11.370
Up,
3886
01:37:11.390 --> 01:37:11.430
up,
3887
01:37:11.520 --> 01:37:11.820
up,
3888
01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:12.550
up,
3889
01:37:12.720 --> 01:37:12.910
um,
3890
01:37:13.040 --> 01:37:16.150
and so if you go to an individual entrepreneur and they're like,
3891
01:37:16.220 --> 01:37:16.350
hey,
3892
01:37:16.400 --> 01:37:17.490
I'm gonna be optimistic,
3893
01:37:17.560 --> 01:37:17.840
I'm like,
3894
01:37:17.880 --> 01:37:17.990
yeah,
3895
01:37:18.080 --> 01:37:18.230
yeah,
3896
01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:19.060
go for it.
3897
01:37:19.280 --> 01:37:22.750
But then if you want to try and account for the whole of society,
3898
01:37:22.840 --> 01:37:23.910
then you'd have to look and be like,
3899
01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:24.340
OK,
3900
01:37:24.750 --> 01:37:26.560
like what do I really think is happening here?
3901
01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:26.830
Yeah,
3902
01:37:26.990 --> 01:37:27.390
definitely.
3903
01:37:27.520 --> 01:37:27.860
So
3904
01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:29.430
what I'm hearing is that we agree that at
3905
01:37:29.430 --> 01:37:31.470
the individual level it's helpful to be optimistic,
3906
01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:32.830
but at the macro level,
3907
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:33.790
that's hurtful.
3908
01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:34.590
Is that correct?
3909
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:35.710
Do I understand your claim correct?
3910
01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:35.990
Um,
3911
01:37:36.200 --> 01:37:36.380
so,
3912
01:37:36.560 --> 01:37:37.710
and even at the macro level.
3913
01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:38.650
Someone says to me like,
3914
01:37:38.740 --> 01:37:38.930
hey,
3915
01:37:39.140 --> 01:37:40.270
AI will grow the,
3916
01:37:40.300 --> 01:37:41.760
the top line of value creation.
3917
01:37:41.980 --> 01:37:43.040
AI is gonna solve
3918
01:37:43.280 --> 01:37:44.850
meaningful scientific problems.
3919
01:37:45.090 --> 01:37:45.210
Like,
3920
01:37:45.260 --> 01:37:46.450
I'm actually like
3921
01:37:46.580 --> 01:37:47.130
down for all of that.
3922
01:37:47.180 --> 01:37:48.010
I agree with all that.
3923
01:37:48.140 --> 01:37:48.290
Yeah,
3924
01:37:48.420 --> 01:37:49.010
I will say though,
3925
01:37:49.140 --> 01:37:50.050
at the macro level,
3926
01:37:50.100 --> 01:37:52.050
if you look at what's what's actually happening in
3927
01:37:52.050 --> 01:37:54.400
media and resources that are going into research,
3928
01:37:54.540 --> 01:37:57.240
all of it is to double down on what can go wrong,
3929
01:37:57.380 --> 01:37:58.210
and that's important.
3930
01:37:58.380 --> 01:37:59.510
We should understand that.
3931
01:37:59.620 --> 01:38:02.520
But what there's less information for is actual resources
3932
01:38:02.580 --> 01:38:04.450
and research on what exactly we could do right.
3933
01:38:04.720 --> 01:38:06.430
I love what you say about UBI and I
3934
01:38:06.430 --> 01:38:08.660
guarantee that you were the first person to introduce
3935
01:38:08.790 --> 01:38:13.040
most people at a mainstream level to UBI and other opportunities
3936
01:38:13.040 --> 01:38:16.500
and other frameworks around solvent wealth funds or what could possibly do
3937
01:38:16.600 --> 01:38:17.360
people don't know about.
3938
01:38:17.440 --> 01:38:17.910
You know why?
3939
01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:20.700
Because the media isn't putting attention on what we can do correctly.
3940
01:38:20.800 --> 01:38:23.570
The media is putting so much attention on everything that is going wrong.
3941
01:38:23.920 --> 01:38:25.750
I was a TV commentator for a little while and they
3942
01:38:25.750 --> 01:38:28.590
pitched me a show called The Future of with Andrew Yang.
3943
01:38:28.640 --> 01:38:29.750
It was like the future of healthcare,
3944
01:38:29.840 --> 01:38:31.150
the future of transportation.
3945
01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:32.950
They did a focus group and they said,
3946
01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:33.270
hey,
3947
01:38:33.400 --> 01:38:33.790
bad news,
3948
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:34.370
Andrew.
3949
01:38:34.610 --> 01:38:35.800
People don't like the future.
3950
01:38:36.160 --> 01:38:36.250
What
3951
01:38:36.850 --> 01:38:37.310
to think about now,
3952
01:38:37.400 --> 01:38:38.190
now that is not you.
3953
01:38:38.280 --> 01:38:39.350
You're all like super
3954
01:38:39.800 --> 01:38:41.710
gung ho about the future because you're an entrepreneur.
3955
01:38:41.800 --> 01:38:42.850
I think you can make it happen.
3956
01:38:43.080 --> 01:38:44.310
But for the average American,
3957
01:38:44.470 --> 01:38:45.560
they see the future
3958
01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:47.020
and it makes them sad.
3959
01:38:47.120 --> 01:38:48.420
It makes them anxious,
3960
01:38:48.750 --> 01:38:50.300
and I'm gonna suggest that
3961
01:38:50.560 --> 01:38:51.420
a lot of them
3962
01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:52.350
are correct.
3963
01:38:52.520 --> 01:38:53.710
A lot of them are onto something.
3964
01:38:54.050 --> 01:38:56.010
Because the holders of the AI
3965
01:38:56.210 --> 01:38:58.720
and the holders of the Capitol and the controllers
3966
01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:01.270
of the data centers do not give a shit
3967
01:39:01.530 --> 01:39:04.000
about what happens to that person and their family.
3968
01:39:04.090 --> 01:39:05.560
And if that person gets upset,
3969
01:39:05.810 --> 01:39:06.160
they'll be like,
3970
01:39:06.250 --> 01:39:06.360
uh,
3971
01:39:06.530 --> 01:39:07.440
we're just gonna ignore you,
3972
01:39:07.530 --> 01:39:07.840
you're like,
3973
01:39:07.890 --> 01:39:08.160
you know,
3974
01:39:08.290 --> 01:39:08.960
blank you out,
3975
01:39:09.130 --> 01:39:09.550
loser,
3976
01:39:09.660 --> 01:39:12.120
like refract everything through a dysfunctional
3977
01:39:12.120 --> 01:39:13.710
political system that's gonna say,
3978
01:39:13.850 --> 01:39:14.720
you know why you're upset?
3979
01:39:14.820 --> 01:39:16.000
It's because of those people over there.
3980
01:39:16.340 --> 01:39:17.490
People over there who have like a,
3981
01:39:17.580 --> 01:39:17.770
you know,
3982
01:39:18.220 --> 01:39:20.890
like a different value set than you do or terminology than you,
3983
01:39:20.940 --> 01:39:21.720
like they're the problem.
3984
01:39:21.980 --> 01:39:22.570
More and more of us,
3985
01:39:22.620 --> 01:39:24.840
my hope is that more and more of us wise up to that,
3986
01:39:25.140 --> 01:39:25.260
um,
3987
01:39:25.380 --> 01:39:26.700
and then raise our hands and say,
3988
01:39:26.820 --> 01:39:26.990
look,
3989
01:39:27.140 --> 01:39:28.410
there are going to be some winners and losers.
3990
01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:28.890
In my opinion,
3991
01:39:28.940 --> 01:39:30.850
the losers are going to vastly outnumber the winners.
3992
01:39:32.390 --> 01:39:32.980
And that
3993
01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:34.130
um let's
3994
01:39:34.330 --> 01:39:36.060
actually manage this process,
3995
01:39:36.230 --> 01:39:36.820
share the wealth,
3996
01:39:36.950 --> 01:39:39.260
make it so the average person feels like they're gonna benefit.
3997
01:39:39.310 --> 01:39:42.140
And I would say is that most people right now are looking for
3998
01:39:42.140 --> 01:39:44.980
a framework on what exactly we can do to come out of this,
3999
01:39:45.030 --> 01:39:45.720
even within
4000
01:39:45.830 --> 01:39:47.380
all of the AI optimist community,
4001
01:39:47.510 --> 01:39:49.280
all of the entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley,
4002
01:39:49.310 --> 01:39:50.290
there's constant debate
4003
01:39:50.390 --> 01:39:52.910
on what we can do to mitigate the concentrations of power.
4004
01:39:53.870 --> 01:39:57.490
And so specifically the plans in there are really important,
4005
01:39:57.590 --> 01:39:59.140
but the sentiment and the negative sentiment.
4006
01:39:59.310 --> 01:40:00.030
It is more
4007
01:40:00.490 --> 01:40:01.890
around the in the United States
4008
01:40:02.050 --> 01:40:04.280
in poorer countries people love AI.
4009
01:40:04.300 --> 01:40:06.280
The sentiment around AI is larger.
4010
01:40:06.490 --> 01:40:08.240
They believe it's an opportunity for growth,
4011
01:40:08.330 --> 01:40:09.160
for education,
4012
01:40:09.410 --> 01:40:10.200
for prosperity,
4013
01:40:10.290 --> 01:40:11.200
and they see it differently.
4014
01:40:11.290 --> 01:40:14.090
So if we expand our conversation beyond just America
4015
01:40:14.210 --> 01:40:16.150
and we talk about what's happening globally,
4016
01:40:16.400 --> 01:40:18.160
people have a different viewpoint and different sentiment,
4017
01:40:18.200 --> 01:40:20.000
and they're actually feeling very optimistic of
4018
01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:22.520
the future because of artificial intelligence.
4019
01:40:22.650 --> 01:40:23.270
I
4020
01:40:23.610 --> 01:40:25.150
like your expanding the lens.
4021
01:40:25.250 --> 01:40:27.000
I can imagine that people in very.
4022
01:40:27.310 --> 01:40:28.850
Other countries are
4023
01:40:28.990 --> 01:40:29.940
amazed that they can just like,
4024
01:40:30.030 --> 01:40:30.180
you know,
4025
01:40:30.430 --> 01:40:30.690
access,
4026
01:40:30.870 --> 01:40:31.060
uh,
4027
01:40:31.230 --> 01:40:32.510
AI and like do it,
4028
01:40:32.670 --> 01:40:32.820
you know,
4029
01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:34.370
relatively inexpensively for now.
4030
01:40:34.830 --> 01:40:35.100
Like I,
4031
01:40:35.270 --> 01:40:36.370
I will say that
4032
01:40:36.590 --> 01:40:39.690
the folks who are in charge of the institutions that a lot of these other countries
4033
01:40:39.910 --> 01:40:40.300
are saying,
4034
01:40:40.390 --> 01:40:40.490
oh,
4035
01:40:40.510 --> 01:40:41.050
snap,
4036
01:40:41.310 --> 01:40:43.020
we're going to end up paying either the Americans
4037
01:40:43.020 --> 01:40:45.730
or the Chinese to use their AI tools because
4038
01:40:45.870 --> 01:40:48.610
we certainly are not going to come up with our Swedish AI.
4039
01:40:49.190 --> 01:40:49.310
I mean,
4040
01:40:49.390 --> 01:40:50.780
maybe it'll be in Swedish,
4041
01:40:51.070 --> 01:40:54.140
but they'll be licensing the models from either us or China.
4042
01:40:54.230 --> 01:40:54.820
I'm going to tell a.
4043
01:40:55.210 --> 01:40:57.080
AI joke because I think people will enjoy it.
4044
01:40:57.170 --> 01:40:58.350
How far behind
4045
01:40:58.810 --> 01:41:00.280
the US is China and AI?
4046
01:41:00.570 --> 01:41:04.160
And the answer is 12 hours because they wake up and see whatever we did,
4047
01:41:04.290 --> 01:41:04.410
uh,
4048
01:41:04.490 --> 01:41:05.350
the previous day.
4049
01:41:06.130 --> 01:41:06.640
So you have,
4050
01:41:06.730 --> 01:41:08.190
you have like these two great
4051
01:41:08.290 --> 01:41:11.910
powers in AI and then the rest of the world is going to end up paying one of us the other.
4052
01:41:12.010 --> 01:41:13.560
And that's going to be one of the,
4053
01:41:13.650 --> 01:41:15.280
the great global competitions.
4054
01:41:15.410 --> 01:41:18.160
But I can imagine like the average person being excited about the tools.
4055
01:41:18.290 --> 01:41:18.380
Yeah,
4056
01:41:18.490 --> 01:41:20.470
and I would say the other opportunity and the reason
4057
01:41:20.530 --> 01:41:23.220
to be optimistic is that pessimism and often People think,
4058
01:41:23.310 --> 01:41:23.460
OK,
4059
01:41:23.550 --> 01:41:24.220
it's going really bad.
4060
01:41:24.350 --> 01:41:25.620
Let's shut everything down.
4061
01:41:25.750 --> 01:41:29.060
But I am an AI optimist because I don't like the problems in our world.
4062
01:41:29.110 --> 01:41:30.370
I want cures to diseases.
4063
01:41:30.510 --> 01:41:31.900
I want a better planet.
4064
01:41:32.070 --> 01:41:32.320
I,
4065
01:41:32.590 --> 01:41:35.960
I don't want eco economic inequality and global poverty
4066
01:41:36.070 --> 01:41:36.540
as well.
4067
01:41:36.630 --> 01:41:36.950
And
4068
01:41:37.070 --> 01:41:38.020
AI right now,
4069
01:41:38.150 --> 01:41:39.260
when it comes to diseases,
4070
01:41:39.430 --> 01:41:41.460
it's doing so much to do drug discovery.
4071
01:41:41.510 --> 01:41:44.060
They're in finding new solutions to cancers.
4072
01:41:44.150 --> 01:41:47.780
It's creating new market for clean energy we've never had at this scale before.
4073
01:41:47.910 --> 01:41:49.700
And so it's creating demand in new areas,
4074
01:41:49.750 --> 01:41:50.450
and I agree.
4075
01:41:50.890 --> 01:41:52.480
So much consideration we need to do,
4076
01:41:52.570 --> 01:41:55.280
and I want to talk to you even further about what do we actually do.
4077
01:41:55.360 --> 01:41:57.760
What's a tangible step forward that we can actually,
4078
01:41:57.890 --> 01:41:57.960
yeah,
4079
01:41:58.090 --> 01:41:58.160
yeah,
4080
01:41:58.260 --> 01:41:58.400
no,
4081
01:41:58.650 --> 01:41:59.240
Sophia,
4082
01:41:59.730 --> 01:42:00.840
to close on this,
4083
01:42:00.970 --> 01:42:01.560
I am
4084
01:42:01.950 --> 01:42:03.020
pro-innovation,
4085
01:42:03.410 --> 01:42:04.360
pro progress.
4086
01:42:04.490 --> 01:42:06.190
I am not a shut it all down guy.
4087
01:42:06.250 --> 01:42:08.630
I believe that they're going to be very
4088
01:42:08.810 --> 01:42:10.630
negative effects for a lot of people,
4089
01:42:10.930 --> 01:42:11.160
um,
4090
01:42:11.570 --> 01:42:13.120
over this coming period,
4091
01:42:13.210 --> 01:42:15.030
and yet I'm still not a shut it down guy
4092
01:42:15.350 --> 01:42:15.870
because
4093
01:42:15.990 --> 01:42:18.440
I think the opportunity in front of us.
4094
01:42:18.700 --> 01:42:20.430
It is clear to,
4095
01:42:20.490 --> 01:42:23.090
to grow the value creation to solve really,
4096
01:42:23.170 --> 01:42:24.830
really long-standing problems.
4097
01:42:25.050 --> 01:42:27.040
The major challenge in my view,
4098
01:42:27.250 --> 01:42:30.000
is to get the winners of this era to say,
4099
01:42:30.130 --> 01:42:30.400
look,
4100
01:42:30.570 --> 01:42:32.240
it's better outside the bunker,
4101
01:42:32.330 --> 01:42:34.200
it's better above ground than below ground.
4102
01:42:34.290 --> 01:42:37.320
It's better without a bulletproof car and private security for myself.
4103
01:42:37.370 --> 01:42:38.880
It's better not living in fear.
4104
01:42:39.690 --> 01:42:40.750
Let me make it so that
4105
01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:41.640
the average person.
4106
01:42:41.740 --> 01:42:41.960
And
4107
01:42:42.170 --> 01:42:46.430
is sharing in the incredible benefits of this technology in this era,
4108
01:42:46.490 --> 01:42:47.800
and that is the opportunity.
4109
01:42:48.050 --> 01:42:49.080
That is the pursuit.
4110
01:42:49.170 --> 01:42:52.800
The scarcity mindset will turn us against each other and say like,
4111
01:42:52.890 --> 01:42:53.040
hey,
4112
01:42:53.170 --> 01:42:53.880
stop everything.
4113
01:42:54.050 --> 01:42:55.530
I'm not a stop everything guy.
4114
01:42:55.730 --> 01:42:57.070
I'm a come together guy.
4115
01:42:57.170 --> 01:42:57.840
I'm like a,
4116
01:42:58.010 --> 01:42:58.160
like,
4117
01:42:58.330 --> 01:42:58.440
like,
4118
01:42:58.550 --> 01:42:59.850
let's figure it out guy.
4119
01:43:00.050 --> 01:43:02.180
I think that is to me,
4120
01:43:02.370 --> 01:43:04.720
the opportunity of this age to go from scarcity.
4121
01:43:04.810 --> 01:43:05.750
Which has plagued
4122
01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:07.000
human society for,
4123
01:43:07.130 --> 01:43:07.320
you know,
4124
01:43:07.450 --> 01:43:07.710
since,
4125
01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:07.930
uh,
4126
01:43:08.010 --> 01:43:08.580
like our,
4127
01:43:08.600 --> 01:43:09.470
our beginnings
4128
01:43:09.610 --> 01:43:11.160
to actually a world of abundance.
4129
01:43:11.250 --> 01:43:12.030
That is the
4130
01:43:12.170 --> 01:43:13.390
biggest opportunity of this time,
4131
01:43:13.410 --> 01:43:14.480
and I hope that we pursue it.
4132
01:43:14.550 --> 01:43:15.360
I completely agree,
4133
01:43:15.380 --> 01:43:16.670
and I think there's so much we agree on,
4134
01:43:16.690 --> 01:43:18.320
and I look forward to talking more about what are
4135
01:43:18.320 --> 01:43:20.360
their tangible solutions to actually get to that world.
4136
01:43:20.410 --> 01:43:20.760
I love it,
4137
01:43:20.850 --> 01:43:21.240
Sofia.
4138
01:43:21.930 --> 01:43:22.160
Yes,
4139
01:43:22.370 --> 01:43:23.100
appreciate you.
4140
01:43:23.190 --> 01:43:25.360
We're gonna pause here because we are out of time.
4141
01:43:25.450 --> 01:43:26.600
Thank you both so much.
4142
01:43:26.690 --> 01:43:27.800
Give them a round of applause.
4143
01:43:28.080 --> 01:43:28.130
It was
4144
01:43:28.250 --> 01:43:28.710
awesome.
4145
01:43:28.850 --> 01:43:30.830
Like I wanna talk to you more about.
4146
01:43:31.790 --> 01:43:33.730
This was a great conversation.
4147
01:43:34.030 --> 01:43:36.660
So everyone also give yourselves a round of applause.
4148
01:43:36.750 --> 01:43:36.940
Thank you,
4149
01:43:37.110 --> 01:43:37.700
debaters.
4150
01:43:41.670 --> 01:43:42.380
I know.
4151
01:43:42.500 --> 01:43:42.510
And
4152
01:43:42.670 --> 01:43:43.180
Andrew,
4153
01:43:43.270 --> 01:43:44.740
thank you so much for your time.
4154
01:43:44.830 --> 01:43:46.210
It was a great conversation.
4155
01:43:46.350 --> 01:43:47.090
I've got a lot,
4156
01:43:47.350 --> 01:43:48.300
a lot on my mind,
4157
01:43:48.390 --> 01:43:49.250
a lot to say.
4158
01:43:49.350 --> 01:43:49.780
I know,
4159
01:43:49.870 --> 01:43:50.580
I love to hear it.
4160
01:43:50.710 --> 01:43:52.090
So much positivity in the room.
4161
01:43:52.190 --> 01:43:53.330
I feel the positivity.
4162
01:43:53.430 --> 01:43:55.540
This is probably the friendliest debate we've ever had.
4163
01:43:55.630 --> 01:43:55.900
All right.
4164
01:43:55.950 --> 01:43:56.420
And of course,
4165
01:43:56.550 --> 01:43:58.340
thank you all for watching at home.
4166
01:43:58.390 --> 01:44:00.950
This is your time to sound off in the comments.
4167
01:44:01.160 --> 01:44:01.780
Let me know,
4168
01:44:01.950 --> 01:44:02.820
did they change your mind?
4169
01:44:02.910 --> 01:44:04.590
Are you now an AI enthusiast
4170
01:44:04.790 --> 01:44:06.100
or are you still a pessimist?
4171
01:44:06.230 --> 01:44:07.370
Let me know in the comments
4172
01:44:07.470 --> 01:44:08.650
and we'll see you next time.
4173
01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:09.380
Bye.
4174
01:44:14.500 --> 01:44:15.530
They were optimistic.
4175
01:44:15.700 --> 01:44:15.820
Uh,
4176
01:44:15.980 --> 01:44:17.400
I enjoy talking to them,
4177
01:44:17.740 --> 01:44:18.560
really smart.
4178
01:44:19.250 --> 01:44:20.950
Open-minded for the most part.
4179
01:44:21.130 --> 01:44:21.830
We were
4180
01:44:22.130 --> 01:44:24.760
forging a human connection and having a genuine conversation,
4181
01:44:24.850 --> 01:44:26.080
which is what I was going for.
4182
01:44:26.290 --> 01:44:27.470
And I think they were too.
4183
01:44:27.490 --> 01:44:28.710
So I enjoyed the heck out of it.
4184
01:44:28.850 --> 01:44:30.520
Andrew did amazing.
4185
01:44:30.650 --> 01:44:32.600
He is such a good speaker,
4186
01:44:32.650 --> 01:44:34.480
and you can tell that he's really informed.
4187
01:44:34.650 --> 01:44:35.680
Not only is he really informed,
4188
01:44:35.770 --> 01:44:36.760
he's very earnest.
4189
01:44:36.930 --> 01:44:39.640
I think a lot of his perspectives and his point of view comes
4190
01:44:39.640 --> 01:44:42.680
from a place of genuinely wanting to do what's best for humanity,
4191
01:44:42.930 --> 01:44:44.400
trying to do what's best for people.
4192
01:44:44.420 --> 01:44:45.470
And so I really
4193
01:44:45.770 --> 01:44:46.520
enjoyed my conversation.
4194
01:44:46.650 --> 01:44:47.280
Andrew today.
4195
01:44:47.390 --> 01:44:49.340
I actually do think he was
4196
01:44:49.630 --> 01:44:51.630
more of an optimist than
4197
01:44:51.930 --> 01:44:52.840
he let on.
4198
01:44:53.010 --> 01:44:55.190
I was expecting someone very against AI,
4199
01:44:55.290 --> 01:44:56.080
like gonna be very,
4200
01:44:56.210 --> 01:44:56.710
very
4201
01:44:56.850 --> 01:44:57.240
negative,
4202
01:44:57.370 --> 01:44:59.230
but he's actually very optimistic about AI.
4203
01:44:59.250 --> 01:44:59.720
I feel.
4204
01:44:59.880 --> 01:45:00.630
Andrew's great,
4205
01:45:00.810 --> 01:45:01.000
you know,
4206
01:45:01.050 --> 01:45:03.230
it's a breath of fresh air compared to the
4207
01:45:03.330 --> 01:45:05.120
traditional dividing lines in politics,
4208
01:45:05.250 --> 01:45:06.710
so it's exciting to hear his perspective.
4209
01:45:06.810 --> 01:45:10.110
I think that there's a balanced approach that most people
4210
01:45:10.690 --> 01:45:11.870
know we could be,
4211
01:45:11.980 --> 01:45:12.400
um,
4212
01:45:12.730 --> 01:45:14.080
adopting that would be better.