Arctic Rivers, Simple Routines, Big Miles

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Uh hello and good day.
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Welcome to the Super Good Camping Podcast.
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My name is Pamela.
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I'm Tim.
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And we are from SuperGoodcamping.com.
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We're here on a mission to inspire other people to get outside and enjoy camping adventures such as we have as a family.
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Today's guests are two gentlemen from the lovely province of Manitoba and the state of Minnesota.
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We were introduced to them by Steve from Sulek46.
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He got to meet them on a recent trip in the Northwest Territories and was blown away by some of their epic tripping.
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They've been canoe tripping together for about 16 years and have logged 5,600 kilometers together.
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Please welcome Jim Gallagher and Brian Johnston.
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Yay, welcome.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Thanks for coming and having you act with us today.
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Yeah.
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First question out of the gate is how did you two manage to sort of get together and start tripping?
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Well, um, I I think Brian and I met at uh the far north symposium in Minneapolis.
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I think Brian, Brian came down for that.
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I forget if you were presenting or just coming down to see uh see a see some presentations, and that was you know some time ago now.
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But yeah, money been when I presented on the on the Dog River going into Lake Superior.
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Okay.
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Uh and there's two big symposiums.
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There's the wilderness one in Toronto and the one in Minneapolis.
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So yeah, so we we met at the one in Minneapolis, and I was uh I've done some uh tripping, you know, some canoe trips with other people over the years, and uh Lee Sessions was uh um a uh uh a guy that uh I tripped with.
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Uh you know, we planned a number of trips with, and and we needed a uh we needed uh another partner on on a trip.
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And we recruited Brian uh you know for the trip on the Mara and uh Burnside Rivers uh going back, what was that, 2009?
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2009 for that trip in particular.
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And uh and bat and Brian and I paddled together uh on that trip, and and it was so nice to paddle with somebody who had really exceptional whitewater skills, and uh, you know, you learn things from the people you travel with.
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And I, you know, on that trip, I I certainly learned a lot and uh sort of opened, you know, opened up the door to you know, to many more trips after that.
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Yeah, and then from there we did some trips together as a group, but not paddling together.
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I paddled one trip with uh go a couple trips with my old traveling partner that I had been traveling with, and it took until I think 2013, so another four years before Jim and I locked into a two-person team that we've been since that's easy, 12 years then.
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That's pretty cool.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, yeah, I mean, over 5,600 kilometers, that's I've been tripping for a while.
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I I have nowhere near that, like nowhere.
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Um so how did you each each as individuals get into that kind of tripping?
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Um, well, you know, I I started work uh in the boundary waters canoe area, you know, just opposite of the Quedeco.
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And uh I was a wilderness ranger uh uh in the boundary waters with the Forest Service.
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I did that for five, six years, and um, you know, I moved on to other jobs in the Forest Service, but that was sort of the beginning of my interest in in canoe tripping.
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And and I didn't take my first Arctic trip until 1992, and that's where the real learning began, you know.
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Um so you know, the first Arctic trip, you know, sort of the scales fell away from my eyes and realized there was this whole region of North America that you know was just wild, and you know, the rivers were challenging, and it was real wilderness, you know, compared to the Queco Superior, which is wilderness, but boy, you know, the the far north is something else.
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Next level.
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Yeah, our our route in was was was different, but the one similarity is Jim and I both ended up in the Arctic indep you know independently, but also what we would consider kind of late in life, like we missed a whole bunch of years of good paddling opportunities up there.
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But I um in Manitoba I found out very quickly that if you like outdoorsy stuff as a I was a young adult that summers are hot and the best place to be in hot weather is on the water.
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So I kind of migrated a little bit through Boy Scouts, but to do canoe trips instead of say like hiking.
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I was I was a bit of a long-distance cycler, but again, being on the water was just a very comfortable place to be in the summer.
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And then, like Jim, I I I migrated, I followed other people through the local canoe club that were going farther north, chasing all the rivers up the east side of Lake Winnipeg, and then eventually into the Barrel Lands.
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And once you get up there, for some people, like Jim and I, there's there's no going back.
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The the north north just opens up such a vast uh opportunity, and it's so good for paddling.
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We're uh we're never gonna achieve what we what we'd like to achieve up there.
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Well, that's that's great.
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I mean, uh you always you're always aiming for for more for something else.
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So that that's cool.
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I I feel like if I it 20 years ago, I might have been able to to take a shot at that, but I wasn't as busy doing my other things now, not a chance.
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I'm also way too broken to even think about it.
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We've done I literally last year it was, or sorry, this year, the beginning of this year is the first time we my eldest, our eldest uh and I had did Whitewater.
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We've never never done it before.
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We've been we're lake paddlers like flatwater, um, you know, a gonk with Clarney, but that sort of deal.
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Uh we just got into to Whitewater and what it what an amazing experience.
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Like it's a totally different animal.
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It's very different.
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It is.
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Yeah.
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You realize how little you know about whitewater after doing all of that flatwater paddling that I did.
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And um, you know, when you go, you know, wind up on a river like the Thelon, my first trip, it's like you you didn't never knew how much you didn't know.
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You know, there's this you know cognitive bias of just not knowing how ignorant you are, and uh and you know, the a big river like the Thelon will humble you very quickly.
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And it did for me.
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And you know, and I've been trying to learn ever since, you know, how to be you know a competent river paddler.
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And uh, you know, and yeah, I think the whitewater aspect of it was it just opened up more river opportunities in the north if you're willing to learn and deal with whitewater, whether that be from a lining perspective or a portaging perspective or a or a running whitewater perspective.
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But the north is so big and so great, you can find flatwater chips with no whitewater if you're willing to look outside of the classic you know, river chips that people do.
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There are certainly non-whitewater chips that are available.
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We have done, well, certainly, again, very limited experience with it, but but portions of the tripping we did this past summer and and into the fall, there there was plenty of just regular river, like not whitewaters, just just paddling, you know, not un not unlike my flatwater experience.
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But then we got into you know some rocks and stuff like that, and some small falls and whatnot, and and ignorant is a perfect word because it was like, you know, I took I took a couple, we spent a couple of weekends taking, you know, lessons, and and you you when you get into it, you if you I don't have that muscle memory, so it became quite I I I had to just sort of react to things, and thankfully everything worked out fine.
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We never we never unintentionally had water in the boat.
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So that was that was a good thing.
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But yeah, it's uh I can't even imagine the like that I I want to think we were pretty pretty low level sort of stuff.
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Um and water levels were fairly low, so thankfully it was a rental boat because banging off of rocks is not not would not make me happy with my own boat.
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I wish I I wish I knew more about the northern rivers.
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Like what do you how do you how do how do you put a trip like that together?
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Because I have to s assume, you know, when we're doing it here, we're only a couple hours away from civilization.
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Whereas up in you know, uh in the true north, you're you're days away.
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How do you how does that all play out?
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Like I so I assume you uh you guys fly in or f and or fly out, and then that's a lot of stuff you gotta lug if you're going for any length of time.
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Like you're you one of your trips was it was like a thousand a thousand?
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No.
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Yeah, that that one was a complex one.
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We had a resupply, we had a cruise switch, um, you know, it's it was a long trip, six weeks, over 40 days.
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Um and um, you know, I and I think that was a turning point for Brian and I uh um looking to have uh less complexity in that regard of you know crew change and and resupply.
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So all of our trips since then have been really just just the two of us.
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You know, we've had a couple other people on other trips uh or two years ago, uh another couple joined us, but they were self-sufficient, you know, they planned their own, you know, food and and uh and we you know got together with uh you know for flights in and some of the logistics, but you know, really since 20 uh 13, we've you know it's just been Brian and I, we've been self-contained, you know, self-outfited, um, and uh and it's complex.
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Some of the logistics are complex.
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You know, this last trip was four flights just to get on the water, and uh, you know, an overnight in Edmonton and uh overnights in Norman Wells.
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Um you know, so it it it gets complex.
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Yeah.
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That's one of the biggest challenges.
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Go ahead, Brian.
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Yeah, so Steve was um it was just unbelievable that Steve and I had the same idea for the same trip, and we were both looking to reduce the cost and share a plane.
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But it's it it is complicated and complex, but you can do easier trips logistically.
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Um but it's just like just like piling down south.
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I'm sure you've done trips where you have to organize you know car shuttles and all this kind of stuff, and how you're gonna get in and how you're gonna get out.
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And you know, pilot's often like those circle routes or routes where you can come back to your your vehicle because it just makes things logistically simpler.
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But the going north, um, it's it's it's very similar to you know going north of you know the big cities in Ontario or or Minnesota into the you know the paddling area.
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You have to worry about logistics and figure all that stuff.
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And we've been doing it long enough that it doesn't always seem that much more complicated.
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You know, for us, you phone an airline and you get a plane ticket while you book online now, but that's that can be no harder than finding somebody to shuttle your vehicle if you're in Ontario for a paddling trip.
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Yeah, it must have been difficult the first few times just in a because because it's not something you normally deal with.
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Yeah, and I I'm much better personally at planning trips in the Arctic than I am planning like trips anywhere else in the world, just because you get to know there's a there's a limited number of outfitters and uh air charter companies and all that kind of stuff.
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And and people often historically and still drive to Yellowknife every year, and some of them would just put in right on Great Slave Lake and paddle from there if you know if you want to save the cost of doing an air charter, and they'll they'll paddle from Great Slave Lake if you have time.
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They'll they'll go on a big month-long or two-month trip and and might even do a circle route and and get back to their car.
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Yeah, cool.
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One thing both Brian and I have done is travel with other people that did a lot of a lot of the logistic planning uh for the trip.
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So we got to see how it was done without having to be saddled with the you know it completely.
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So at least my first few trips, people were you know doing that thinking, you know, for me.
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And I got to see how it was done and begin to put the pieces together, you know, after a few trips.
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Of, you know, like Brian said, there's a limited number of air charter companies that you can work with.
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So, you know, there's one or two in Yellowknife, there's one in Norman Wells, you know, there's one in Cambridge Bay, you know, there's just not a lot of choices in places.
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Yeah, and I guess the other thing we do too for some places, we've done uh quite a few trips out of Baker Lake, and we would always have a backup plan when you land there because if if the only plane in town isn't flying for whatever reason, you you need a backup plan.
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So we'd we would always bring maps and figure out where could we do a trip out of Baker Lake where we end up back in Baker Lake without relying on a on an air charter, and that might involve you know a boat shuttle or or uh or even an overland drop-off somewhere, or it might just involve us portaging or paddling right from the community.
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I think we have this whole I think we have this this concept of extending our our our life in the north by eventually um shying away from maybe rivers and just you know fly into a place and just like Baker Lake or Yellowknife and just paddle on the big lake and take some time and just end up right back where you started and logistically very, very simple.
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Yeah, so I when you say Arctic, I I keep thinking cold.
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So I how how do you how do you navigate that?
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Like you don't want to be have to be lugging tons and tons of clothing and gear and stuff with you.
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Yeah, it's it's cold is a is um cold is not the issue.
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The issue is three seasons or four seasons during your limited time there in the summer.
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Yeah, how quickly it changes.
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And and I know that uh when Steve when Steve and Evan got back, Steve posted a very short video, and it was just like the the amount of bugs, like, how do you even breathe, man?
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Like there's just so many bugs.
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That's it, that's insane.
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I I didn't think the bugs were bad on on the trip this summer, you know, on the Brock and and Roscoe Rivers.
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I you know, I think I maybe used my head net once, maybe, and I and I it was awfully well, we were very close to the Arctic Ocean there.
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So it was it was cool, it was cold at times.
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It was really cold at times too.
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Uh July 12th, we had snow and ice, you know, it was uh you know, bad conditions.
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You don't have to worry about the bugs in that condition, you know, you worry about staying warm, and uh and which we did.
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Yeah, but yeah, the bugs to me, uh the past number of trips, uh Brian hasn't ever packed uh bug dope uh since I've known him.
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And I've scaled back my bug protection.
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I think we're just getting more uh tolerant.
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You know, that's you just accept that's part of the Arctic, and you're gonna be uncomfortable in some way.
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And it might be bugs, it might be cold, it might be the wind, but you we've learned to tolerate it.
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It it might be the heat.
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Might be the heat, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I think it's the last few years we've had very hot weather.
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Um uncomfortably hot where you don't want to be in the tent until 11 o'clock at night where the sun is low enough that it starts losing its intensity.
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And and and the tents of sauna by seven o'clock in the morning when the sun's back on it.
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But on the flip side, yeah, it it it you know, we had frozen water bottles uh two days later.
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So you can you can the temperature can range 20 degrees in a day.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So you just that would be a lot of clothing and and and gear that because you got a butt cover, you gotta you you don't know how it's gonna play out.
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Yeah, and technology's improved that it's easier to have good clothing for cold weather and light weather than maybe you know it used to be, right?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Rain gear can is quite a bit lighter now than it used to be.
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And uh, you know, overall we've we've scaled back on the weight of gear, I would say.
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Brian's really taken the lead on that, but uh, you know, we both really cut back on the amount of stuff we bring with us.
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Yeah, it's partly an age thing.
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You get older and you don't want to carry it all and look after it all and pack it all.
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The the other big technology thing that's helped us in the in the north is we've been pretty early adopters of using pack boats.
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So, you know, we have a 17-foot canoe that folds up.
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Um, it's a stick frame and a and a you know, a cover, and it basically fits in a hockey bag, and that makes it logistically easier to fly commercial to the north, and also fly in float planes or um uh you know air charged that you don't have to take an external load like a canoe on a on the on the floats, or you can take a smaller plane because you don't have to put a canoe inside the airplane.
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So that's that's helped Jim and I as a two-person team.
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Um well we've also used them as you know a six-person team, but it just opens up more airplane opportunities because it's easier now to land on on wheels off strip on a on an Esker or a beach than it is um with a hard shell canoe, which is just a little more a little more restrictive, a little more maybe costly to ship around.
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Interesting idea.
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Yeah.
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I have heard of oh, who did we talk to?
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We talked to somebody, uh Darren, I think, um, who they actually took like uh thwarts and and whatnot apart so they could fit one canoe into another canoe.
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Uh I thought that was an interesting way to go about doing it because they otherwise they weren't gonna be able to get enough canoes where they were going to in order to get it on the floats.
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So that's that's cool.
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I think yeah.
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Yeah, a twin otter, you can fit three three canoes stacked on top of one another in a twin.
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And we've traveled like that a number of times, and we've had you know canoes strapped on floats on other trips, but you know, I think by far we prefer the packed canoe, you know, for a lot of reasons.
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One, it's fairly lightweight when you're having if you're having to carry it, it's often the lightest piece of equipment that we have.
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And and you know, the logistics for getting it to and from the river is much easier than a hard shell.
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But we've also, as you said, Tim, we've we've nested the canoes, taken the seats and the gallows off and stacked them either in inside or or or stacked outside on a on a pontoon float.
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Because it makes it easier to get more boats into the into or onto the plane.
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And it would I would think it gives you more flexibility logistically to where you start and stop your trip.
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It doesn't have to be on a a larger body of of water that they have to, you know, they can put put down with the pontoons.
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Yes.
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Like you said, if it if there's a beach or something like that, they could do that.
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Cool.
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See all these things.
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Small things though.
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It's it's it's hard to land on a float plane with a packed canoe and and and and not start on shore.
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You know, with a hard shell canoe, they can just drop the boat in the water and throw your stuff at it and push you off and say see you later.
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So and away you go.
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Yeah.
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There are the there are those small details you need to be aware of sometimes.
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How long does it take you to reassemble it?
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45 minutes, maybe an hour, you know, maybe an hour fifteen, just depending.
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And you know, I don't know what's your take, Brian.
00:21:24.549 --> 00:21:27.990
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking we're always done within an hour.
00:21:28.869 --> 00:21:30.549
Yeah, from start to finish.
00:21:30.789 --> 00:21:36.549
Sometimes we're a little more um I don't know, particular fussy or the conditions are in as well, right?
00:21:36.629 --> 00:21:49.349
You know, if it's really windy or really buggy, or or uh the site's not as comfortable, like uh just um you know, if the ground is not as good for just moving around, because you have to go from one side to the other side, and you know.
00:21:49.589 --> 00:21:51.670
But yeah, we've we've done it enough.
00:21:51.990 --> 00:21:55.750
Um it's always a little bit, oh, we haven't done this in a year, what do we have to do?
00:21:55.829 --> 00:21:57.430
But it it it goes pretty easy.
00:21:57.589 --> 00:21:59.750
And it's certainly easier with two people.
00:22:00.389 --> 00:22:05.910
And and I'm sure we can take it apart in half that time and roll it all up and have it packed away pretty quick.
00:22:06.309 --> 00:22:12.230
So obviously, with a trip like this, you guys are well prepared for like what if there's an emergency, what if you somebody breaks an ankle?
00:22:12.309 --> 00:22:14.869
What if somebody or yeah, have you done?
00:22:14.950 --> 00:22:18.789
I'm assuming with the Forest Service you may have done wilderness first aid training.
00:22:20.069 --> 00:22:21.829
Yeah, it's been a while for me.
00:22:21.990 --> 00:22:26.470
Uh, but yeah, you know, we're different first aid training.
00:22:26.629 --> 00:22:35.589
Um we try to bring a fairly comprehensive first aid kit um that we've never actually needed, uh which is a good thing.
00:22:35.670 --> 00:22:43.029
Um and um you know, and and of course we have communication now more than we ever used to.
00:22:43.190 --> 00:22:53.029
You know, back in the day it was you had nothing, you know, paper maps uh I'll pick you up at this spot in three weeks and hope you're gonna get there.
00:22:53.190 --> 00:23:01.990
And now it's like, well, we could have real, almost real-time communication with you know a clinic or a doctor or something if we got into a an issue.
00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:05.589
Um so there's that, and that helps.
00:23:06.069 --> 00:23:14.789
Um, but there's a certain amount of personal care, self-care that I think each of us carries onto the trail.
00:23:14.869 --> 00:23:19.670
You know, we're very careful about what we're doing, you know, so it's preventative.
00:23:19.750 --> 00:23:26.789
Um, you know, we don't let stuff happen to us and and you know, break a bone or hurt ourselves.
00:23:26.869 --> 00:23:32.549
Uh, you know, so there was an element of caution that goes in with our planning.
00:23:32.869 --> 00:23:54.389
Yeah, we I think we brag that our troops are very unadventful and and there's not necessarily great stories to tell because we try to live our life simple when we're up there and be successful and we want to be in nature on on the land, seeing the wildlife, and we'd rather not deal with other issues that complicate things.
00:23:54.629 --> 00:23:54.789
Trauma.
00:23:55.109 --> 00:23:55.990
Trauma, exactly.
00:23:56.549 --> 00:23:57.269
Trauma.
00:23:57.509 --> 00:24:09.109
Yeah, we don't want our tent to blow down and have that be an issue, or our canoe blow away and have that be an issue, or run out of food, or you know, any of the other number things that could happen, you know.
00:24:09.190 --> 00:24:22.230
So it's it's like we're fairly tight on on routines and safety and the things we look out for um to avoid avoid those issues, trauma.
00:24:23.990 --> 00:24:26.789
Somewhat off top of it, but you're talking about the wind.
00:24:26.869 --> 00:24:31.029
What's the landscape like in the in the areas that you tend to to go to?
00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:37.269
Like is it are we are we talking like shrubs and like beyond the trees kind of a thing?
00:24:37.589 --> 00:24:39.990
It's uh it's barren lands by and large.
00:24:40.069 --> 00:24:44.389
I mean, there's a few rivers where the trees follow the river for quite a way.
00:24:44.470 --> 00:24:57.430
You know, the Horton River is one, the copper mine is one where there's you know quite a few trees on the river, but uh for much of our trips, many of our trips, most of our trips, uh it's just barren land.
00:24:57.509 --> 00:24:58.789
Uh it's tundra.
00:24:58.950 --> 00:25:01.109
And uh so the wind rules.
00:25:01.269 --> 00:25:03.910
Um, there's nothing to slow the wind down.
00:25:04.230 --> 00:25:16.629
And you know, and it can change within the day, you know, from being wind bound with the wind from one direction to being windbound with the wind from another direction, and all in the in the same day.
00:25:17.990 --> 00:25:22.789
And that is really good being barren lands because it opens up uh your visibility.
00:25:22.950 --> 00:25:33.750
You get out of the tent in the morning if there's a wolf on a ridge, you're gonna see it if it's you know a few a few meters away or or even a kilometer or two away, because your visibility is great.
00:25:33.829 --> 00:25:36.470
So you you don't miss as much wildlife opportunity.
00:25:36.549 --> 00:25:38.309
There's no forest or trees in the way.
00:25:38.549 --> 00:25:43.829
It uh it makes portaging super easy from a you know, you don't need a portage trail, right?
00:25:43.910 --> 00:25:57.269
You you can get to a high point, literally stand on a rock, and see where the next lake is and go, well, we know where our target is, and then you just look for the the easiest, driest, best footing, which is super good.
00:25:57.430 --> 00:26:08.309
And it's if you like to walk or hike every night on the land, it's just out the tent door or the kitchen shelter, and just let's go to that rise and get to that rise, and where do you want to go next?
00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:19.349
And it's uh such a welcoming area of of land to go on, provided that the you're prepared for it and the conditions are good and you're okay being comfortable when you're uncomfortable.
00:26:19.670 --> 00:26:21.750
Well, and that what do you use for fuel then?
00:26:21.829 --> 00:26:27.269
So it's just scrub that you're able to gather, or how do you get campfire fuel?
00:26:28.629 --> 00:26:32.629
We we pretty much use white gas, you know, camp fuel.
00:26:33.269 --> 00:26:38.950
And you know, there are other ways to do it for sure, but you know, that's just what we've locked into.
00:26:39.109 --> 00:26:47.029
And uh and so one of those logistical questions that you have to deal with is well, how can you get white gas where you're going?
00:26:47.269 --> 00:26:58.869
You know, we we know we can get it at you know, one of the co-ops in in Baker Lake, and one co-op charges twice as much as the other, so you know, we we know where to go.
00:26:59.109 --> 00:27:05.509
And you know, Norman Wells, you know, we picked it up at uh I forget what's it, Northern Store or something.
00:27:05.750 --> 00:27:08.309
Yeah, I think both stores had it.
00:27:08.549 --> 00:27:11.029
We've never really had much of a problem getting fuel.
00:27:11.269 --> 00:27:13.589
And Jim and I have just migrated to that.
00:27:13.670 --> 00:27:16.549
It's simple, it's fast, it's convenient, it's clean.
00:27:16.869 --> 00:27:24.789
But lots of people would use stick stoves now and and you know, use little branches off the land.
00:27:25.349 --> 00:27:32.789
Typically where we are, there's there's limited firewood from a a size perspective.
00:27:33.109 --> 00:27:44.710
You know, you're not gonna get much um wood that's much bigger than like kidding kind of stuff, but with a stick stove you can you can cook fine, you know, with stuff the size of your fingers or thumbs.
00:27:44.789 --> 00:27:49.509
And yeah, it's it's not that much different than canoe tripping down south in that perspective.
00:27:49.670 --> 00:27:53.670
We bring basically the same uh the same stuff.
00:27:53.829 --> 00:28:00.230
We we just bring a little more warm clothing, and uh and our trips are typically three weeks long-ish.
00:28:00.710 --> 00:28:28.389
So, you know, we're packing more food, but um, and the other thing is because there's no trees, you know, you're on the bare lands, and and the the wind can be an issue, but so can the heat and so can the bugs, but then you need some sort of you know, tenting and maybe you know, shelter, like a tarp, um kitchen protection, etc., that doesn't rely on trees, so something that's freestanding, or you can use your poles or your paddles for last year.
00:28:28.470 --> 00:28:38.629
We spent a lot of time with the canoe on edge because it was uh it just worked very well for us to give us some shelter when we we wanted to get out of the wind and that.
00:28:38.710 --> 00:28:47.269
And but yeah, no no trees is uh an issue if you want to do a hammock or if you want to use a traditional tarp and and do a ridgeline or something, you know.
00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:54.950
We're always staking our tarp down and using paddles as poles to give it structure and that.
00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:55.670
Yeah.
00:28:56.230 --> 00:29:02.150
And if you are looking for or hoping for an evening campfire, well, no deal.
00:29:02.789 --> 00:29:03.349
No deal.
00:29:03.990 --> 00:29:08.789
With the a few exceptions, you know, if you're along the coast, there's often more wood along the coast.
00:29:09.269 --> 00:29:11.029
No like driftwood or something like that.
00:29:11.349 --> 00:29:12.150
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:12.549 --> 00:29:18.069
But also in the national park that we were in, uh there was no open fires allowed.
00:29:18.230 --> 00:29:27.269
So, you know, that's another another aspect to be aware of, and you know, that you don't have to deal with back in the tree line and uh generally.
00:29:27.910 --> 00:29:35.109
Well, yeah, and and you mentioned earlier, or sorry, alluded to the warmer, the last few years have been warmer.
00:29:35.430 --> 00:29:37.190
We're experiencing that here.
00:29:37.509 --> 00:29:40.389
We're in fire band season like all the time now.
00:29:40.549 --> 00:29:46.150
So I actually have a flickering light so that I can pluck it in the campfire so that at least you get that that feel, right?
00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:46.710
Yeah.
00:29:47.430 --> 00:29:52.389
Of course, the other thing in the Arctic is we typically have 24 hours of s of daylight.
00:29:52.549 --> 00:30:00.869
If we don't have 20 hours of daylight, we certainly have 24 hours of what we would consider daylight given the the twilight.
00:30:01.109 --> 00:30:09.509
Um, so you don't need a campfire for that aspect to you know give the ambience and have a nice you know evening around.
00:30:10.309 --> 00:30:12.150
And and you don't need a headlamp either.
00:30:12.389 --> 00:30:13.750
Yeah, you don't take a headless.
00:30:14.629 --> 00:30:18.869
Yeah, we just something we've never never brought with us.
00:30:19.029 --> 00:30:24.230
And uh another common question we get is well, gosh, that you're going pretty far north.
00:30:24.389 --> 00:30:26.629
You know, aren't you gonna see northern lights?
00:30:27.430 --> 00:30:31.589
Well, no, it's it's uh light 24 hours, you know.
00:30:31.670 --> 00:30:33.029
There's you can't see anything.
00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:33.670
Anything.
00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:35.190
You can't see the northern lights.
00:30:36.069 --> 00:30:37.910
It's not dark enough to see the northern lights.
00:30:38.710 --> 00:30:43.430
Yeah, and that and that that also means you can get up whenever you want and paddle.
00:30:43.589 --> 00:30:49.269
Like you can beat the wind every morning if you want to get up at two o'clock or three o'clock in the morning and start piling.
00:30:49.430 --> 00:30:53.269
And if you get up to go to the bathroom during the night, you don't need a flashlight or a headlamp.
00:30:53.509 --> 00:30:58.230
You just walk out the tent door and it's it's bright enough, right?
00:30:59.990 --> 00:31:02.710
Does it affect your ability to sleep at night when it's not getting dark?
00:31:02.950 --> 00:31:10.789
It doesn't affect Jim's and I ability to have a nap at 10 o'clock in the morning if we're windbound and another nap at 2 o'clock in the afternoon if we're still windbound.
00:31:20.230 --> 00:31:31.029
Either side of 50 degrees Fahrenheit, and uh, you know, that the sun is is warm, but not you know, often not too warm.
00:31:31.109 --> 00:31:36.710
Uh you know, there's good daylight, you know, uh it's just my favorite environment.
00:31:38.710 --> 00:31:47.269
With all that light, I would assume you guys are dragging, not dragging, taking along some like a solar panel, and you just recharge all your electronics that way.
00:31:47.509 --> 00:31:52.710
Yeah, we bring one solar panel and um and a and a battery bank.
00:31:53.190 --> 00:32:00.069
And we've had great success going back to uh so I at since Jim and I started piling together.
00:32:03.509 --> 00:32:03.829
I think so.
00:32:03.990 --> 00:32:06.710
I I I don't Yeah, I certainly remember we had it.
00:32:06.869 --> 00:32:09.589
Yeah, I I I've been a pretty early adopter.
00:32:09.990 --> 00:32:17.670
I had I was doing my journal, I'm sure, in 2012 on an electronic device with a solar yeah.
00:32:17.910 --> 00:32:26.150
I certainly remember the Kujuwa uh and the the was the other river we did on north of the Kujua, northeast of the Kujuwa.
00:32:26.869 --> 00:32:27.430
Nanook.
00:32:27.589 --> 00:32:28.230
Nanook, yeah.
00:32:28.389 --> 00:32:29.750
We certainly remember charging, yeah.
00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:35.349
And and the and the trick now is we bring us well, I'd say a slightly bigger solar panel than we need.
00:32:35.509 --> 00:32:47.109
It's not big, it's like the 28-watt solar panel, 30 watt solar panel, just because we can charge on overcast conditions in the Arctic without an issue to charge you know an iPhone.
00:32:47.670 --> 00:32:48.470
Yeah, it's same here.
00:32:48.549 --> 00:32:53.910
I think ours is 26 watts for what I drive around.
00:32:53.990 --> 00:33:01.349
Yeah, and a and a you know, whatever, 50,000 milliwatt or milliamp hour power bank or whatever, and that's it's enough to run all of it.
00:33:01.589 --> 00:33:07.990
Yeah, and I think we could go with certainly less, like half that solar panel if it was always sunny.
00:33:08.150 --> 00:33:26.309
But in the Arctic, you can easily get, you know, you can get some, as as we had last year, you can get some cold, windy, snowy days where uh Jim and I were basically doing half days portaging because we were on a just uh uh connecting the two rivers, which was about a 10 kilometer portage.
00:33:26.389 --> 00:33:49.750
So we were walking about a few hours every day and spending the rest of the day in the tent staying warm, which means we're reading books on our on our on our iPhones, and it's cold, so your battery life isn't as long, and you're using your phone more for being in the tent for journaling and doing books and stuff, so then you're you you need to charge more, and of course, you're in this bad charging weather.
00:33:50.069 --> 00:34:02.869
For us, it was slightly below zero and cloudy and snowy, and there was we had ocean fog every morning because we I think we were within certainly 80 kilometers of the coast, so the fog would roll in.
00:34:03.029 --> 00:34:07.750
We had to wait for the fog to roll out before we really were keen to go out and do our portage.
00:34:08.070 --> 00:34:16.630
So a little bit bigger solar panel, and we could charge during less than you know, ideal solar solar panel charging conditions.
00:34:17.430 --> 00:34:23.349
So you mentioned wildlife, Brian, uh and look wolves, other examples of wildlife that you guys have encountered?
00:34:24.630 --> 00:34:36.389
Well, we saw we saw a grizzly bear at about a quarter mile last summer, and you know, we you know, because it's the barren lands, you know, and um there was some terrain as well.
00:34:36.550 --> 00:35:02.630
So you you had you know, we were sort of in this bowl of a river valley, and up on the hillside we could see a brown shape, and you know, we got just a little bit closer and could see that it was a grizzly bear, and I think it knew we were there, and but it just kept doing what it was doing, and you know, foraging on the hillside and left us alone, and we left it alone, and you know, sort of went our separate ways.
00:35:03.110 --> 00:35:05.909
But there were many, many caribou.
00:35:06.309 --> 00:35:18.150
This particular uh area, uh this national park is is home to the breeding uh breeding area or the calving area of the blue-nosed caribou herd.
00:35:18.389 --> 00:35:27.269
And so we were seeing herds and herds of you know of caribou, mainly cows with calves, you know, some bulls.
00:35:27.829 --> 00:35:33.349
But you know, at one point I was outside, had the wind in my ears, I couldn't really hear.
00:35:33.509 --> 00:35:37.110
Brian's in the tent, he's reading, and he said, What's that noise?
00:35:37.269 --> 00:35:38.469
I said, Well, what noise?
00:35:38.630 --> 00:35:40.550
I can't, I'm not hearing anything.
00:35:41.509 --> 00:35:43.030
There's something across the river.
00:35:43.590 --> 00:36:03.909
So I went and looked, and there was, I don't know, a couple hundred caribou, you know, that were working their way along the shore of the river, and you know, they grunt and they their the their heels or their legs make a clicking noise, and so there was all that kind of kind of noise, you know, associated with the caribou.
00:36:03.989 --> 00:36:08.469
And and I I wasn't hearing it at all, but Brian, you know, could hear it in the tent.
00:36:08.630 --> 00:36:13.670
But yeah, got some nice video of that uh that particular herd.
00:36:14.309 --> 00:36:21.110
Yeah, we've over the years we've seen, you know, I think you could almost say, you know, we've seen it all.
00:36:21.509 --> 00:36:25.110
But last summer we didn't we didn't see any sandhill cranes, which is really unusual.
00:36:25.190 --> 00:36:27.989
But we always see swans, we always see pharmigan.
00:36:28.389 --> 00:36:34.150
Uh we often see caribou and bear, whether that be grizzly or polar bear.
00:36:34.389 --> 00:36:39.190
We often see um fox, hare, muskox.
00:36:40.469 --> 00:36:44.389
Um last year wasn't a good year for wolves, but wolves are pretty common.
00:36:44.630 --> 00:36:55.190
Yeah, and and vary in terms of you know whether we're seeing them like we've had grizzly bears just down at the water and we're just floating down the river, and we can float right by them.
00:36:55.429 --> 00:36:57.429
Go float right by them, they don't even notice us.
00:36:57.670 --> 00:37:05.509
But and other times you're uh you're backpiling on the river because there are so many caribou swimming in the river, or or you it's hard to get water because there's so much caribou hair in the river.
00:37:05.590 --> 00:37:07.269
Yeah, you just you never know.
00:37:07.590 --> 00:37:19.750
Yeah, on the copper mine, we we saw a number of moose, which that's pretty far north, you know, and they but they were you know followed the you know the the river, the copper mine river, uh almost to the ocean.
00:37:19.909 --> 00:37:33.509
And at one point there was a calf that would began swimming the the river, and we were floating down to it, you know, sort of inadvertently getting between you know the calf and its mom, which was on the other shore.
00:37:33.750 --> 00:37:37.349
And mom came in the water and she was coming for us.
00:37:37.750 --> 00:37:45.670
And we we had to do some sort of quick paddles to sort of get more space between us and the calf.
00:37:45.829 --> 00:37:58.309
And and you know, she came around and you know, sort of herded her calf towards the shore at that point, and you know, so it was a minor bit of excitement, but interesting interaction, you know.
00:37:58.710 --> 00:38:04.550
Always exciting when we see a wolverine, too, because they're pretty elusive for for sites.
00:38:04.630 --> 00:38:19.590
And the other thing that that I'm always taking by surprise, I think Jim a little less because of his you know professional background as a as a biologist, but when we're getting close to the ocean stuff, we start seeing signs of of ocean wildlife.
00:38:19.670 --> 00:38:25.030
So we'll find a a skull along the river and it's it's from a seal.
00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:36.389
And I'm not I'm not instantly thinking seal, but Jim being a wildlife biologist is a little more adapt sometimes to the to the where we are in terms of you know the the habitat.
00:38:37.269 --> 00:38:43.349
And uh so it's always fun to see you know seals' heads poking out of the water and and that kind of stuff on on trips.
00:38:43.429 --> 00:38:52.789
And fish species change too when you get you know farther north and and and um closer to the uh to the ocean stuff as well.
00:38:52.869 --> 00:38:55.909
And so it's and do you fish on your trips?
00:38:57.829 --> 00:38:59.750
I I I like to fish.
00:38:59.829 --> 00:39:04.789
Um I this particular summer um fishing wasn't great.
00:39:04.869 --> 00:39:14.070
You know, I I caught a few grayling and uh you know because of some of our our travel schedule, I didn't fish the couple of lakes that we were on.
00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:21.509
It just wasn't working out for you know how how the day each day was unfolding, but there's probably lake trout.
00:39:21.590 --> 00:39:31.190
Um but on other rivers, we've you know, the in other, you know, where there's been some lakes and and better rapids, I've you know, the the fishing can be unbelievable.
00:39:31.349 --> 00:39:36.710
I mean you're catching some just amazingly, you know, large lake trout.
00:39:36.869 --> 00:39:39.989
And uh the fishing is very fast as well.
00:39:40.230 --> 00:39:44.630
And um, but you know, I I love fishing.
00:39:44.789 --> 00:39:47.030
If I catch nothing, I'm okay with that.
00:39:47.110 --> 00:39:55.110
That's just you know, I'd we'd never rely on fish because I've been disappointed too many times, you know, to count on fish.
00:39:55.670 --> 00:39:56.710
You and me both.
00:39:56.949 --> 00:39:57.590
Yeah.
00:39:57.829 --> 00:40:02.789
You know, it's like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna pack less food and you know, plan on catching fish.
00:40:02.949 --> 00:40:04.309
Well, no, that that never happens.
00:40:04.389 --> 00:40:04.789
That never happens.
00:40:05.030 --> 00:40:07.509
That's the drama that Jim and I like to avoid.
00:40:08.309 --> 00:40:09.590
Running out of food.
00:40:09.829 --> 00:40:10.389
Right.
00:40:10.630 --> 00:40:11.030
Yeah.
00:40:11.269 --> 00:40:13.509
I'm starving, do a better job at fishing.
00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:14.630
Yeah, right.
00:40:15.670 --> 00:40:17.590
So what's coming up this year for you guys?
00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:19.429
Or in 2026, I guess.
00:40:19.829 --> 00:40:31.509
We are always thinking of something, and we're not always fast to make a decision, but we we we have our eye on on a on a on our on a fairly straightforward, easy river trip in in the central barrens.
00:40:31.670 --> 00:40:37.829
We we kind of like the more central barrens more so than the than the mountainous stuff.
00:40:38.070 --> 00:40:41.110
Um in the last few years we've been pretty far north.
00:40:41.269 --> 00:40:48.789
We've had great success with uh being right along the basically the northwest passage for the last three or four years.
00:40:48.869 --> 00:40:52.550
And um, it's just time to maybe do go somewhere else.
00:40:52.630 --> 00:40:58.309
And yeah, I think we're we're trying to avoid the 10 kilometer portage again.
00:40:58.789 --> 00:41:01.269
Uh that was you know my thinking.
00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:06.550
It's like, well, maybe we can find somewhere that's just a little bit easier than what we did last summer.
00:41:06.789 --> 00:41:09.750
Um, you know, I'm okay with that.
00:41:09.909 --> 00:41:28.309
Um the river over the years we haven't been sh um hesitant to try to do something a little unique and not we've done a lot of very classic river trips, you know, paddled the thelon or the Kazan or whatever, but the copper mine, but we also tried to do some you know a little more unique stuff.
00:41:28.389 --> 00:41:29.829
And last summer was a good example.
00:41:29.909 --> 00:41:42.070
We connected two rivers that to our knowledge, you know, people have never connected, and then we paddled more of the rivers too all the way out to the ocean, and we paddled the ocean to get to the nearest community.
00:41:42.469 --> 00:41:50.309
Um, so we we liked we like doing something a little unique and adding to that, you know, the knowledge that's out there for for future paddlers.
00:41:50.469 --> 00:42:01.750
And and the north is so interconnected, I always try not to lose sleep over things because when you get there, it's always pretty obvious that you can just get from one body of water to the next body of water if you're willing to do a bit of work.
00:42:01.909 --> 00:42:05.030
And last summer we did a we did a bit of work on a couple occasions.
00:42:05.429 --> 00:42:12.949
Well, yeah, I looked at the uh your map on your website and and just went, wow.
00:42:13.989 --> 00:42:15.750
That's that's wicked.
00:42:15.909 --> 00:42:17.030
That's amazing.
00:42:17.349 --> 00:42:18.710
All the places you guys have been.
00:42:18.789 --> 00:42:30.869
It just like I'm not of the 10 kilometer portage that I can do without that, but I'm jealous of the uh just the amount of of wild nature.
00:42:31.030 --> 00:42:40.389
Like, do you run into so if fine if you're booking, if you're trying to save some money on a flight or whatever, so you you know, we book with other people outside of that.
00:42:40.550 --> 00:42:44.389
Do you run into other people on your trips?
00:42:45.509 --> 00:42:47.349
Yeah, we we have, yeah.
00:42:47.509 --> 00:42:55.590
Uh um there are some of the rivers like the copper mine that get paddled by many other groups every year.
00:42:55.670 --> 00:43:05.030
And we ran into, you know, on the copper mine, two groups from Minnesota, uh, from uh a YMCA camp and uh outside of Ely.
00:43:05.429 --> 00:43:08.550
And uh, you know, so that that's fairly common.
00:43:08.710 --> 00:43:13.829
I've run into groups from the same camp on, I don't know, probably three or four other trips.
00:43:14.309 --> 00:43:26.949
And you know, and we we've run into uh uh certainly Inuit people out on the land, you know, that are they're you know, boating out and camping, um, you know, hunting and fishing.
00:43:27.269 --> 00:43:29.509
And uh, you know, that's always fun.
00:43:29.590 --> 00:43:31.190
Uh fun to talk with them.
00:43:31.429 --> 00:43:34.630
Um and uh trying to think who else.
00:43:35.030 --> 00:43:47.989
We've run into, I guess over the years, a few, you know, European trials that would seek the Northern Canadian and and and other Canadian, you know, paddlers as well, or American paddlers.
00:43:48.710 --> 00:43:56.070
Some years we know we have friends just ahead of us or just behind us, or on the next river over or something.
00:43:56.949 --> 00:44:03.269
Sometimes when you fly in, you can ask the the air charter company or the pilots, like, hey, you know, are we are we the first group this year?
00:44:03.349 --> 00:44:05.030
Is anybody ahead of us or behind us?
00:44:05.909 --> 00:44:19.829
But some places we go, we know we're the only padders that year, or for the next you know, couple years, just or the last you know, few years, there just hasn't been people piling in that area.
00:44:20.469 --> 00:44:25.030
Yeah, some some of our routes of are pretty obscure.
00:44:25.269 --> 00:44:32.630
You know, they're they're not not well known by people looking to do a river like the Kazan or Thilon.
00:44:32.869 --> 00:44:42.789
You know, those are fairly straightforward, well-known rivers, but you know, like our trip from Parker Lake to Rankin Inlet was I I don't know.
00:44:42.869 --> 00:44:44.789
I imagine people have done that trip.
00:44:44.869 --> 00:44:53.110
Uh Brian might know them, I don't, but uh there was nobody else on the river, on those rivers that summer in that area.
00:44:53.349 --> 00:45:07.429
And uh so yeah, and and some trips are certainly have outfitters, like you know, we were on the Horton, and the Horton's a pretty popular river for you can sign up with a canoe outfit company and they'll take you down the river.
00:45:08.150 --> 00:45:14.949
And so do you document your travels just for yourselves, or is there a book in the works, or is there a documentary coming?
00:45:16.150 --> 00:45:19.030
Um, well, you know, both Brian and I journal.
00:45:19.110 --> 00:45:24.469
Uh we keep journals, so there's material, you know, written in the written word.
00:45:24.630 --> 00:45:26.710
Um, you know, I do some writing.
00:45:26.869 --> 00:45:37.750
Um, I done some radio work for our local community radio station and uh have interviewed people like Brian and other friends.
00:45:37.909 --> 00:45:43.989
Um you know, uh there was a period where I was, you know, producing something once a month or so.
00:45:44.150 --> 00:45:49.750
And uh so some of that my material would make it into the those radio bits.
00:45:49.909 --> 00:45:59.429
And uh, but Brian and I have been doing uh presentations at like the Far North Symposium and uh the Wilderness Canoe Symposium.
00:45:59.590 --> 00:46:09.509
Um, you know, Brian will be presenting there this coming year, and uh we'll be presenting it in Minneapolis as well uh in the coming year.
00:46:09.670 --> 00:46:14.150
So that material makes it into those places as well, those outlets.
00:46:14.949 --> 00:46:17.110
We'll have to make a trip to the symposium for that.
00:46:17.269 --> 00:46:17.590
Okay.
00:46:19.190 --> 00:46:20.789
I could probably get talked into.
00:46:22.469 --> 00:46:35.190
I I I think the only other thing we could just briefly touch on is the fact that if you want to expand, you know, beyond your local paddling area or or even just go on bigger trips, even if you're staying in in Ontario.
00:46:35.269 --> 00:46:37.110
And there's nothing you know wrong with that, right?
00:46:37.190 --> 00:47:04.230
There's just there's lots of resources out there in terms of you know joining a paddling organization, taking a course, um, using social media or or you know, old school networks to expand your the people you're paddling with in terms of skills and experience and diversities, and you know, that kind of Jim and I have spent a long time getting to where we are, but you know, there are means to accelerate that gaining experience, right?
00:47:04.389 --> 00:47:12.949
And paddling within your limits, you know, judgment goes a long way, sometimes more so than skill can go, but skill can also help out.
00:47:13.190 --> 00:47:19.989
Yeah, don't don't be afraid to learn from others and you know to realize that you might not know it all.
00:47:20.150 --> 00:47:25.269
You know, I think that's a uh that's a very um real trap to fall into.
00:47:25.429 --> 00:47:30.949
It's like, well, I've paddled in the boundary waters for many years, I know it all.
00:47:31.110 --> 00:47:38.150
And and you wind up on a on a big Arctic river, and you you can be humbled very quickly.
00:47:38.389 --> 00:47:46.389
And uh so you know, go into it with your eyes open and your ears open, especially to learn from others.
00:47:46.789 --> 00:47:47.750
Well, absolutely.
00:47:47.909 --> 00:47:55.190
I mean, I I would echo that in a I I have logged, you know, a boatload of boatload of of paddling time.
00:47:55.349 --> 00:47:59.590
I thought I was a pretty good paddler, and then I tried Whitewater with I know nothing.
00:47:59.909 --> 00:48:01.829
Yeah, it's it's a big, vast world, right?
00:48:01.909 --> 00:48:06.389
There's a lot of diversity to it in terms of even paddle craft, right?
00:48:06.630 --> 00:48:09.989
Um, but you know, be adaptable, be flexible.
00:48:10.230 --> 00:48:16.630
One of the things I love about paddling is that there's many different ways of doing things, and and they're not necessarily right or wrong, they're just different.
00:48:16.710 --> 00:48:25.349
So, like we mentioned that Jim and I travel and we use a stove, but you could easily travel and use a stick stove and and not a you know a fuel-based stove.
00:48:25.429 --> 00:48:30.550
And there's many ways of doing things, which is which is really good.
00:48:30.789 --> 00:48:40.550
I've I've certainly learned lots of things over the years, and I'm still learning things, and sometimes it's kind of like you know, wow, like I never thought of that, but you know, it works.
00:48:40.710 --> 00:48:43.190
Maybe it's not the way I want to do things, but it certainly works.
00:48:44.070 --> 00:48:53.829
Well, that's where something somebody we talked to recently was saying that uh because you said about the discomfort and just that you can live with discomfort, it's not you're not gonna die uncomfortable.
00:48:54.070 --> 00:48:55.349
So yeah, exactly.
00:48:55.750 --> 00:49:02.230
But if you're talking about situations, you learn what you can what you can you know build your resilience and you learn what you can what you can deal with.
00:49:02.710 --> 00:49:10.869
Yeah, and and it gets you out of like you know, we all think in a certain way, and but different from each other.
00:49:11.110 --> 00:49:23.670
So watching somebody else do something or just listening to somebody else talk about how they do something, it's like, oh, that could be, yeah, maybe I'll try that just just because just push yourself out of your comfort zone.
00:49:23.909 --> 00:49:25.989
Being uncomfortable can also save your life.
00:49:26.150 --> 00:49:37.190
So I'm a I'm a big fan of I'm comfortable being chilled for a long time because I don't want to get sweaty and moisture because the sweat and the moisture will kill you faster than being chilled will.
00:49:38.309 --> 00:49:41.110
So it's not it's not always a bad thing.
00:49:41.670 --> 00:49:43.989
Oh no, I'm I'm all for being cool.
00:49:44.150 --> 00:49:45.429
I I sweat at the drop.
00:49:45.909 --> 00:49:47.349
Well, you're perfect, as Jim says.
00:49:47.429 --> 00:49:51.670
It's it's perfect, comfortable temperature when you're a pile in north of 60.
00:49:51.989 --> 00:49:53.030
That's it for us for today.
00:49:53.110 --> 00:49:59.269
Thank you so much to Jim and Brian for joining us and telling us about their adventures in the in the tundra.
00:49:59.590 --> 00:50:02.710
And we would love to hear from you if you want to talk to us anytime.
00:50:02.789 --> 00:50:04.869
We are at high at supergoodcamping.com.
00:50:04.949 --> 00:50:08.869
That's H I at Supergoodcamping.com, and you can find us on all the social media.
00:50:09.030 --> 00:50:10.309
And we will talk to you again soon.
00:50:10.550 --> 00:50:10.789
Bye.
00:50:11.110 --> 00:50:11.349
Bye.
00:50:11.909 --> 00:50:12.230
Thank you.