Whose Perspective Are You Successful From? Depression, Career Change and Rebuilding — Aron Jameson

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There's something you want to do that you haven't said out loud yet.
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Not because you can't do it, you almost certainly can.
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But what you can hear in your head is how it would sound if you said it at a dinner party.
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You can hear the pause.
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You can see the face someone might make, and so it stays in your head where it is safe, and it does absolutely nothing.
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My guest today spent years feeling embarrassed about the work he loved.
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When he was winning clients, he was embarrassed.
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When he was putting his name on a sign above a door, he was embarrassed.
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He bumped into an old colleague on the train and had to explain what he does now.
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Mortified.
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He doesn't feel that way anymore.
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And what changed wasn't the work getting more impressive.
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It was him deciding he no longer cared who was watching.
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Welcome to Successful AF, the podcast for people who've ticked all the boxes and still don't feel successful.
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I'm Jess West, leadership and burnout coach, and this is where we take apart what success actually costs, who gets to define it, and what happens when you stop chasing a version of it that somebody else wrote for you.
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Career change, redefining success on your own terms, and burnout.
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Today's guest has walked all three.
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Aaron Jamieson spent 15 years in the corporate world, most of them in London, rising from trainee to head of operations.
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The office, the suit, the team, the awards, everything he'd pictured since he was a teenager.
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Then depression arrived, and by his own account, it took about a fortnight to take everything.
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He couldn't leave the house.
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He couldn't make a decision, so he made the only one he could.
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He left.
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No new job, no plan, no next thing, just out What he built afterwards is what we spend most of this conversation on.
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He trained across the world in a variety of modalities because when Aaron learns something, he learns it six different ways from six different people.
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First in body work and then in the mind.
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He's now a body work therapist and trainer teaching in Norwich and London, and running retreats for people who've never once been told it's all right to stop.
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He's also an NLP coach.
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There are many strings to this man's bow.
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He's also a very dear friend of mine.
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In this episode, you'll discover what depression actually looked like for Aaron before he knew what it was, and the one feeling he had to put down before his new career could take off, it isn't fear, and it isn't money.
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And finally, the word his mentor refused to let him use about his own 15-year career.
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Oh, and we spend a good chunk of this episode talking about failure and whether it's actually the opposite of success.
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So in that spirit, we recorded the most awkward opener of all time and had to start again, and for some reason, I cannot get rid of the"let's do it again" line in the edits.
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So here I am failing live.
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Let's get into it
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Aaron, welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for having me.
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It's really nice to see you.
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It's almost a year since we decided we were gonna make this happen, so 11- It is months later, I am thrilled that we're here.
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Um- And time has flown by.
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It really has, yeah.
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Everything happens in the right time, right?
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So, this is- Of course the time it's supposed to be.
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Yeah.
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So Aaron, tell us your story.
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It's always, it's one of those things and I think, um, when I was listening to you,'cause I love listening to your podcast, and, um, there was a guest on there that said the exact same thing where it's like where would I start?
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Where I was born?"
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Wherever you feel the start is.
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I mean- Everyone we can go all the way back to conception if you know where that is.
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I'm like, I'm open to all of it.
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It's like,"Everyone get your cups of tea.
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I've got a long story."
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No, seriously, everyone loves story time.
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It's the best time.
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But no, I, um, so I went into the corporate world straight after college, and spent 15 years or so, I think it's a little bit more in the corporate world, most recently in London.
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And even though I never knew what I wanted to be, or I never knew what I wanted to do from an early sort of age, I was one of those people that probably seemed like parents would think you were a hippie, because it'd be like,"What is it you wanna do?" And I'm like,"I don't know."
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Mm.
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I don't know." And they'd be like,"Okay, well, you need to kinda, like, sort that out." Um, so I always had this image of me being, it doesn't matter sort of what corporate or industry.
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I, I kinda s- saw myself in meetings, saw myself with people, part of an office environment, which is hilarious because that's just not what I do anymore.
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It's the complete opposite.
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So I went straight into the corporate world.
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Did that for 15 years.
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I then hit depression and anxiety.
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When you hear people saying it comes out of nowhere, it can be developing in the background.
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It can really sort of, like, engulf everything that you're doing without you noticing.
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I honestly did not realize that was really a, a true thing that happens until it happened.
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And it just, within a matter of, I'd say it was about a matter of two weeks, it really kind of took over everything and I, uh, I couldn't really do anything anymore.
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I couldn't make a decision.
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I couldn't, um, I couldn't decide anything on my own.
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I felt like every decision I was gonna make was probably wrong, or it gave me anxiety.
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So, um, I made the only decision I could, and that was to just leave the corporate world.
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I didn't have a goal.
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I didn't have anywhere to go.
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I didn't have another job.
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I just knew I needed to sort of take a big step back and breathe.
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Um- And that's the only way I knew how.
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So-
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I actually didn't realize, for some reason in my head I thought you took sick leave when you had depression.
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I didn't realize you'd actually quit, like cold turkey.
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Oh, yeah.
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Like I'm out, like done done.
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I'm out.
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I'm out out.
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No,
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it's-
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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It was just, I just needed to sort of step back and, um, take a big breath, and that was the- Mm the only way I knew how to do it really.
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So I, after sort of spending about, I th- I think it was about like three to six months afterwards, I, again, something that I never even realized was going to happen you read about it all the time and you see it all the time, but I never realized it was happening.
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I couldn't leave the house for a while.
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I couldn't meet my friends or, um, like old colleagues or old friends or anything.
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Everyone would be messaging saying,"Let's meet up for a coffee because, you know, haven't seen you in a while." And for some reason something was just stopping me from Doing it.
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No, I can't actually still understand why.
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My experience of depression, obviously everyone's is different, is when I was in that place, I couldn't even bring myself to message back.
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It was just like the sheer mental load of everything- Mm was like I couldn't I couldn't get in touch.
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I couldn't go and see people.
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Like getting out of bed to have a shower was too much.
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And so that sort of idea of sitting in front of someone and having to make conversation, even my best friends, it was just like I'm so tired.
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Yeah.
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And it is, it's exactly that.
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Like, there were some people I couldn't message back.
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Mm.
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And then I had to message back six months later when I realized, you know, I, I actually hadn't messaged them.
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And sort of say,"I'm so sorry,""as you know, I was going through a situation and I'm, you know, now coming out the other end, and I'm really sorry I didn't message you back.
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It wasn't because I didn't care." But after that period of time where I was able to sort of just breathe and recalibrate everything, I, when I was starting to come out the other end, I thought,"What is it that I want to do?" Because the natural instinct for a lot of people would be go back into the corporate world because that's what you know.
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It's what you do.
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Now you feel like you've recalibrated, step back in.
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But I was like this is an opportunity for me to after, you know, 15 years, you get to a certain age where you have a little bit more of an idea of what you like and what you don't.
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So I was, what aspects do I love about what I used to do, and what aspects do I not love so much about what I do?
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Leave the bits I didn't like, push them aside, what was I left with?
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And it was all to do with, even though I worked in the corporate world, it was all to do with teamwork, people, helping people build themselves up.
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Helping people, succeed in some way, shape, or form.
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And I was like,"Okay, actually, what I need to do is work with people." And then it just started to click.
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I was like everything that I'd been through and everything that happened and how I felt, I wanted to help people that was going through a similar situation.
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Or hopefully help them before that situation happened.
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So I started going into all of the wellness, several, tens of different things, retreats, traveling around the world, studying different things, seeing what worked for me, what didn't.
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And tried to help people where I could really.
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And that was the beginning of my wellness journey, and then that's now been years'cause I'm getting really old.
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Not at all.
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I think you said you started your first sort of coaching training.
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Well, no, you did the, the somatic piece first and you did the masseuse training first, and then- Yeah you went and did NLP.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so maybe do you wanna talk a little bit about how you approached it all?
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Like, what led you to the massage training first?
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And,'cause I, I have a very similar outlook to you on how we approach, like, wellness, and it's not just, like, chatting about things.
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It's a lot more mind and body, but I'd love to hear your perspective.
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Yeah.
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So I, I think it came as like a twofold.
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Half of it was what worked for me.
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That was, like, a big sort of part of it.
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And the other half was more about how I, at that moment in time-- So when I was starting to come out of my sort of depression and anxious period, I was like, what could I help people with now to begin with to ease me into the wellness game without it being too heavy, without it being too, like, you know.
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I'm one of those people where I, uh, you know, I, if I go learn something, I need to learn it from six different people in six different countries in six different ways so that I can kind of like really, hone in on-- I, like, I'm a knowledge buff.
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So I thought there's no way I can do anything to help anyone.
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But what can I do to ease myself into helping people sooner whilst I'm taking all the years to learn the more in-depth stuff?
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So that's where massage came up.
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I was like,"Okay, body work.
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That's interesting." Looked into it and thought spa sort of massage wasn't my thing.
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But helping people who are going through pain or helping people who are going through injury, uh, people who are needing someone just to talk to, like when you go to a barber, and they're known for, like, being a therapist as well.
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So I started studying all aspects of the body work world, so sports massage and, um, mobility and holistic and Brazilian and Indian and Thai and all these different aspects to start helping people that are going through more body pain before I went to the mind pain.
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They say, don't they, that your body whispers, Mm until it screams.
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And I think- Yeah so many of us are so good at overriding those whispers and being like,"Nah, not, not now.
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There's not, there's, there's not...
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Like, it's not the right time.
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I've got too much going on." Like, you know, I hear people say it all the time,"Oh, I don't have time to be sick right now." And I'm like,"Eh, I don't think it's about whether or not you have time.
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I think your body- No is just trying to tell you something, and it's probably time to listen
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Yeah, and I, I thought when I was going through my sort of like period of, um, like depression and negativity in my mind, I realized one of the biggest sort of problems I had at that moment in time, which obviously you don't realize until much later, is I never took any time out to just de-stress- And, um, take a breath and calm down.
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It was always on to the next thing.
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So I thought trying to work with people in a somatic way with like the mind, body, and soul starting with the body.
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I was just sort of like going down that route of helping people just take a, a couple of hours out of their really stressful day where they're hitting burnout or hitting depression or hitting anxiety and just helping them calm and helping them.
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And this is where I specifically went into working with people who are going through issues not just sort of, holistic massage, which is still fantastic, it's, it helps loads of people.
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But some of my clients had ADHD, anxiety issues.
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Some people have to listen to, um, books or audio books, uh, when they come for a massage'cause it's the only way that they can allow someone to be in that sort of close proximity to them.
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Just helping people with taking some silence out of their day.
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If I had had that two hours of silence every now and again, maybe my body wouldn't have reacted the way it did.
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Yeah.
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So massage was the beginning.
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And then you've really evolved your offering since then, haven't you?
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Like, you've sort of been through a whole process of learning and training and now you're teaching.
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Do you wanna talk a little bit more about what that evolution felt like and how you did you drive it or do you think it just came about naturally?
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Both.
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I think it, it just felt, it felt right.
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Mm.
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Um, I love working with people and I love being in that position of being able to help people in any way that I can.
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And after going in, so many different countries in so many different ways, learning so many different wellness sort of therapies, there were some people that really stuck with me, and then there were some people who really didn't- For X, Y, and Z.
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And I was like,"Okay, so th- this is what I don't want to do.
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You know, this is the kind of teacher that I don't want to be.
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And if I was in this position, I'd love to have been able to help these people in this way." So after going through years of sort of learning all these different different therapies, I then started looking into teaching And it just felt so natural.
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I had an amazing mentor.
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I had two or three mentors in different ways, but, um, there's one in particular that's amazing, and she's, uh, been doing it for 30, 30-odd years.
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And she's just an amazing woman, and, um, seeing what she's able to do and how she's able to help so many people and not take that on, I'm always trying to shake her and be like,"I hope you're really proud of yourself for helping all these people." And she's like,"I don't really think about it." Tsh.
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But when I started teaching, it just felt natural.
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It felt, um, like that's what I was meant to be doing, teaching, helping people, you know, like start their journey, look a little bit deeper.
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Maybe help them in some way that's not...
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'Cause when I say teaching, I do mean it in the normal sort of standard sense where I teach people.
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Um, but teaching for me is also, like, at my retreats and wellness days, it's not so much like teaching you a qualification, but all, like, these retreats, it's maybe teaching you to learn a new technique that might help you in your day-to-day in your busy sort of corporate life.
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Or at home, or, you know, with your partner or anything really.
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And so let's get specific about what you do teach,'cause you teach masse- m- what is the word for teaching a mas- masseuse?
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You teach masseuse?
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So- That sounds so weird.
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Teach massage.
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Oh, there we go.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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There's a bit of a, a thing with the word masseuse at the minute.
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Oh, really?
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Oh, God.
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Where it's like, you know,
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um- Oh, we're not allowed to use masseuse anymore.
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Okay.
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Well, you can, you can use it, but they might, you know, they might book you for a particular reason if you call them a
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masseuse.
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Oh.
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So.
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So what am I instead, a massage artist?
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Yeah, massage therapist, or- Oh,
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therapist.
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Yeah, not artist.
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Oh.
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I
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mean, that's pretty cool.
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Yeah, you can be a massage artist.
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A
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massage artist.
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I'm a bodywork artist.
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Oh.
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Although they probably think that I paint people.
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Yeah.
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But- Well, either way.
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Okay.
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So you t- you teach massage.
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Mm-hmm.
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You teach breathwork.
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You teach sound healing?
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So there's different modalities I teach and different modalities that I do-
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Okay
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and perform.
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So I teach all sorts of holistic and massage.
00:17:04.218 --> 00:17:15.327
So things like that might sort of spring to mind, like Thai foot massage, Indian head- Mm Brazilian lymphatic manual, myofascial, trigger point therapy, soft tissue release.
00:17:15.438 --> 00:17:17.397
All sorts of anything to do with the body.
00:17:17.397 --> 00:17:21.428
Because what I wanted to do was work with the mind, body, and soul.
00:17:21.438 --> 00:17:24.758
So one of the other things I teach, that's like the whole body.
00:17:25.137 --> 00:17:25.238
Mm.
00:17:25.248 --> 00:17:29.327
I try to do as many things that can encompass the body.
00:17:30.218 --> 00:17:46.807
And if I don't think something works for me, or if I don't necessarily agree with the industry and think that you need to have, that you should have a degree in something like acupuncture- Or reflexology, I think you should need a proper degree.
00:17:47.347 --> 00:17:53.536
So I don't teach that because I don't agree that someone can go do a course and then just- teach it.
00:17:53.816 --> 00:17:57.086
You know, I think you should probably do something for about 20 years before you, you know.
00:17:57.086 --> 00:17:57.746
But that's just me.
00:17:57.746 --> 00:17:59.336
I'm a snob with things like wellness.
00:18:00.165 --> 00:18:04.105
I think it's important though, from my perspective in the coaching industry, but in general, right?
00:18:04.165 --> 00:18:18.026
Because it's not an accredited field- Yeah then you can go on and do like a, a four-hour course on the internet and call yourself a coach and call yourself a nutritionist and sounds like you can also do similar in your fields.
00:18:18.026 --> 00:18:33.566
And I think that causes a lot of damage to the industry, but also to individuals who have interacted with those people who aren't properly trained, and then they come away thinking,"Okay, well, coaching is a load of whack," or, or whatever.
00:18:34.125 --> 00:18:34.526
Yeah.
00:18:34.566 --> 00:18:42.465
Because there are some individuals out there who aren't perhaps as, or have as much integrity as, the rest of us.
00:18:42.476 --> 00:18:43.125
Yeah.
00:18:43.125 --> 00:18:47.326
It, it should be regulated as an industry, the whole wellness game.
00:18:47.385 --> 00:18:47.526
Mm-hmm.
00:18:47.596 --> 00:18:49.576
Um, it's slowly starting.
00:18:49.576 --> 00:18:54.395
I think they've just started to regulate some forms of wellness, and I think it's in Scotland.
00:18:55.195 --> 00:18:57.625
And I think they've started with things like reflexology.
00:18:58.246 --> 00:18:59.826
This is all a I think.
00:18:59.875 --> 00:19:01.635
I'm pretty sure- Yeah that's what it is, but-
00:19:01.705 --> 00:19:03.056
Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly.
00:19:03.496 --> 00:19:03.576
Allegedly.
00:19:03.576 --> 00:19:04.226
Allegedly.
00:19:04.226 --> 00:19:04.865
It's a start.
00:19:05.685 --> 00:19:05.986
Um- Yeah.
00:19:06.105 --> 00:19:06.496
It is.
00:19:07.086 --> 00:19:09.236
It's like, um, traditional Chinese medicine.
00:19:09.336 --> 00:19:18.965
It's like you said, there are too many things out there where people can go learn something in a weekend or a week, and then come away from it and call themself X, Y, or Z- Mm and have insurance for it, but it's not regulated.
00:19:19.316 --> 00:19:29.546
And it's just, I think that's what a lot of teachers get into the game for, is trying to teach awareness of that kind of thing.
00:19:30.256 --> 00:19:30.645
But yeah.
00:19:30.645 --> 00:19:32.435
That's everything that like encompasses the body.
00:19:32.435 --> 00:19:36.056
Thai massage Hawaiian lomi lomi, all this kind of stuff.
00:19:36.405 --> 00:19:38.935
This conversation is really making me wanna book a massage, by the way.
00:19:39.165 --> 00:19:40.256
You're so far away.
00:19:40.266 --> 00:19:40.526
You could have booked it.
00:19:40.596 --> 00:19:40.796
I know.
00:19:41.026 --> 00:19:41.566
God damn it.
00:19:41.566 --> 00:19:41.635
Do you need to come to Norwich?
00:19:41.635 --> 00:19:45.976
That- that seems to be the only answer to this conundrum of mine.
00:19:47.135 --> 00:19:48.135
So you've got all of that.
00:19:48.185 --> 00:19:50.506
And then I teach things to do with the mind.
00:19:50.566 --> 00:19:55.066
So, um, like reiki and crystal healing.
00:19:56.076 --> 00:20:06.355
Anything that worked for me in that respect that I understand and agree with and that sort of thing, I go down that route with teaching.
00:20:07.215 --> 00:20:10.365
And then obviously I coach with neurolinguistic programming.
00:20:11.096 --> 00:20:16.496
But then I do breathwork sound healing, eFT tapping.
00:20:16.506 --> 00:20:16.596
Um-
00:20:17.576 --> 00:20:19.516
Oh, I didn't know you were EFT.
00:20:19.526 --> 00:20:19.546
Yeah.
00:20:19.826 --> 00:20:21.125
I love a bit of EFT.
00:20:21.125 --> 00:20:22.846
I've just discovered it very recently.
00:20:22.885 --> 00:20:23.746
It's very helpful.
00:20:24.605 --> 00:20:31.605
And this is, like, why it's sort of And when I've done things for myself, there are some things that I don't I will always try things.
00:20:31.816 --> 00:20:37.415
And if they don't work for me, then I'm just never gonna, touch them again.
00:20:38.506 --> 00:20:45.036
I, I'm always battling with that saying, uh, what's it, you got your finger in loads of different pies.
00:20:45.135 --> 00:20:45.665
Is that, is that right?
00:20:46.175 --> 00:20:46.375
Is that the saying?
00:20:46.385 --> 00:20:46.635
Yeah,
00:20:46.665 --> 00:20:47.016
yeah.
00:20:47.016 --> 00:20:47.300
Yeah.
00:20:47.300 --> 00:20:47.586
Yeah.
00:20:47.586 --> 00:20:49.925
I don't know why you would have all your fingers in different But anyway.
00:20:50.425 --> 00:20:56.465
Um, I'm always battling with that statement because I 100% agree with it.
00:20:56.526 --> 00:21:01.635
There's no reason, if you're trained and you're qualified and you do the research and you go through your qualifications.
00:21:02.256 --> 00:21:08.105
But also you do get a lot of people out there who will do everything under the sun.
00:21:08.846 --> 00:21:10.346
And it's because then they can sell it.
00:21:10.965 --> 00:21:11.286
Yeah.
00:21:11.945 --> 00:21:17.145
And again, you can sense that sort of passion or lack of passion in people.
00:21:17.925 --> 00:21:25.895
I get really passionate about this whole, uh, people need to be proper trained and qualified in things.
00:21:27.086 --> 00:21:28.385
But um, but yeah.
00:21:29.385 --> 00:21:29.855
Yeah.
00:21:29.885 --> 00:21:34.445
I think especially the people who are doing everything, they tend to be doing it at surface level.
00:21:34.526 --> 00:21:39.016
There is a reason that the wellness industry is regarded with such contempt at the moment.
00:21:39.026 --> 00:21:39.076
Mm-hmm.
00:21:39.076 --> 00:21:42.935
And I think it's because some of that lack of integrity.
00:21:43.635 --> 00:21:44.066
Yeah.
00:21:44.486 --> 00:21:45.036
Yeah.
00:21:45.145 --> 00:21:47.865
And that is like i-'cause it's all about helping people.
00:21:49.301 --> 00:21:59.461
And if you're not going through that sort of, training and putting the experience in and all that sort of stuff you might do the opposite to help someone.
00:22:00.021 --> 00:22:10.511
And so that, that's why I adopt a kind of, if I'm doing one thing, I will do it six different times in six different ways from six different people.
00:22:10.682 --> 00:22:14.031
It's not always six, that's just a massage number.
00:22:14.031 --> 00:22:14.132
A metaphor to
00:22:14.132 --> 00:22:14.582
say.
00:22:14.961 --> 00:22:15.162
Yeah.
00:22:15.451 --> 00:22:16.761
It's a metaphor for me today.
00:22:17.352 --> 00:22:18.461
But yeah, that's...
00:22:18.622 --> 00:22:19.311
Yeah, sorry.
00:22:19.311 --> 00:22:23.332
So hopefully that very long answer answers your question to what I teach.
00:22:23.551 --> 00:22:24.192
No, I love it.
00:22:24.251 --> 00:22:25.231
I absolutely love it.
00:22:25.701 --> 00:22:28.071
Tell me what success means to you.
00:22:29.471 --> 00:22:31.592
Something very different to what it did.
00:22:32.241 --> 00:22:37.521
And to be honest, I'm not, I'm still not 100% sure because there's always something else.
00:22:37.551 --> 00:22:38.642
There's always something new.
00:22:38.662 --> 00:22:40.201
There's always some new direction.
00:22:40.251 --> 00:22:40.951
There's a new goal.
00:22:40.951 --> 00:22:43.001
There's a new topic to learn.
00:22:43.011 --> 00:22:48.791
There's a new development, new hill to climb over, hurdle to jump over, all that sort of stuff.
00:22:49.471 --> 00:22:53.852
But success to me used to look very black and white.
00:22:54.311 --> 00:22:58.932
It was very me in an office of some sort.
00:22:58.981 --> 00:23:02.511
I'm like the only person that probably dreamt of being in an office when they were a teenager.
00:23:02.521 --> 00:23:02.781
No.
00:23:02.922 --> 00:23:03.152
It's weird.
00:23:03.261 --> 00:23:04.652
I used to as well.
00:23:04.652 --> 00:23:10.491
I had this weird fantasy of, like, being dressed all in black, wearing high heels, and having a BlackBerry.
00:23:10.531 --> 00:23:12.071
That was, like, my vision of my future.
00:23:12.082 --> 00:23:12.511
Yeah.
00:23:12.531 --> 00:23:16.826
I was gonna click around all over the place and be in an office, and it was gonna be...
00:23:16.826 --> 00:23:18.041
There was gonna be a lot of glass.
00:23:18.102 --> 00:23:18.442
It was...
00:23:18.481 --> 00:23:18.832
Yeah.
00:23:19.321 --> 00:23:19.912
Uh, so you and me- But- both apparently had...
00:23:19.912 --> 00:23:19.981
Maybe we watched the same TV shows.
00:23:19.981 --> 00:23:20.011
I don't know.
00:23:20.011 --> 00:23:20.094
Yeah, maybe.
00:23:20.094 --> 00:23:23.192
I mean, it was Ally McBeal, so maybe that's what
00:23:23.192 --> 00:23:23.291
it is.
00:23:23.291 --> 00:23:23.541
Oh, yeah.
00:23:23.541 --> 00:23:26.602
Maybe, yeah.
00:23:26.682 --> 00:23:27.501
'Cause she was a lot...
00:23:27.781 --> 00:23:28.152
anyway.
00:23:30.031 --> 00:23:41.622
So back then, success did look like a suit, an office, you know, like awards- That sort of, um, recognition, all that kind of stuff, a team.
00:23:42.582 --> 00:23:44.291
That was success in my mind.
00:23:44.382 --> 00:23:58.342
Living in London was always a big part because I come from the coast, so the idea of, you know, success for a lot of people who live in small towns or the countryside is living in a big city, uh, like, you know, like the TV.
00:23:58.942 --> 00:24:02.422
And that was, for 15-odd years, that's what success looked like to me.
00:24:03.172 --> 00:24:08.531
And now success is more a feeling than anything.
00:24:08.682 --> 00:24:13.281
It's not things that I have or things that I can do or things that, I can get.
00:24:14.192 --> 00:24:19.001
It's just more how I'm feeling, which is always changing.
00:24:19.541 --> 00:24:33.082
I might feel successful one day, and then the next week I might feel like I've dropped the ball, but that's okay'cause I've learnt to learn from it which is a huge difference in what I was like sort of like five years ago.
00:24:33.771 --> 00:24:47.112
And so I learn in that sort of mindset that success now is just being okay with the day, being okay with the week, being okay with if things don't work out, at least I tried something new.
00:24:47.781 --> 00:24:48.112
I've got...
00:24:48.132 --> 00:24:52.943
There's all these different, uh- paths of success.
00:24:53.903 --> 00:25:03.074
When I deal with a client and they have this big sort of mindset shift and they, you know, say,"Oh, this is, I never thought this would happen.
00:25:03.074 --> 00:25:07.243
This is me," all this sort of stuff, you know, that- that's a different kind of success.
00:25:07.894 --> 00:25:12.423
Winning awards for our wellness score, that's a different kind of success.
00:25:13.074 --> 00:25:25.923
Me being able to spend most of my mornings with a fresh book and a mocha before I actually start my work at 10 o'clock in the morning, that's a kind of different success that I like.
00:25:26.243 --> 00:25:27.943
That is a huge success.
00:25:29.253 --> 00:25:34.794
So it's, it's that difference in There's all sorts of different forms.
00:25:34.834 --> 00:25:36.263
And I still fail all the time.
00:25:37.064 --> 00:25:44.084
You still go-- I feel like in different ways, shape, or form, there's always little failures, but It's a horrible word'cause it's not really failing.
00:25:44.134 --> 00:25:50.624
But in terms of success, can't always be succeeding, otherwise it'd be a bit boring, wouldn't it?
00:25:50.913 --> 00:25:51.983
Wouldn't learn from anything.
00:25:52.784 --> 00:25:55.304
That's a really interesting point, actually.
00:25:55.354 --> 00:26:00.943
Do you think that failure is the opposite of success?
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:20.569
No, I think success in itself when someone says, you know, like if I said to someone,"Do, do you feel successful?" And, and they're like,"Yes." I'm like,"Well, whose perspective are you successful from?" Because I used to think I wanted to be successful by looking like X, Y, and Z.
00:26:20.569 --> 00:26:21.140
Mm-hmm.
00:26:21.220 --> 00:26:22.990
Office suit awards.
00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:23.529
Yep.
00:26:23.789 --> 00:26:34.890
It actually took me years of sort of like neurolinguistic programming training and having sort of a coach of my own to realize that actually my success back then was based off someone else's perception.
00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:44.819
I wanted to look successful for my managers, for my bosses, for other people that were, like, at awards and stuff.
00:26:44.930 --> 00:26:47.740
I wanted to be succe- look successful to them.
00:26:48.190 --> 00:26:51.079
My partner, I wanted to look successful to them.
00:26:51.950 --> 00:27:00.140
And success to those two different kinds of people look incredibly different, and I didn't learn that till many years later.
00:27:00.140 --> 00:27:14.019
Now, success to my partner is me coming home and not being depressed, is coming home with a book where I've just been out for a coffee, grabbing him a coffee.
00:27:15.069 --> 00:27:25.339
That's walking in and being like,"'Sup?" That's what success to my partner looks like in his eyes for me, that I'm succeeding.
00:27:25.369 --> 00:27:32.690
So for me, it's those little failures, horrible word, but it is what it is.
00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:35.380
Um, might be that I'm just having a really bad morning.
00:27:36.230 --> 00:27:42.869
I'm having a really bad day, and I think I can't really if it's like a bad day, everyone has them, and it's, I can't help someone else today-
00:27:43.549 --> 00:27:43.759
Yeah
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:47.740
because I need to be able to focus on making sure I'm in the right mindset.
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.119
That to a lot of people will feel like a failure.
00:27:50.150 --> 00:28:02.690
For me, that's a huge success that I'm able to be aware of that, to pinpoint it and fix it, whereas five years ago I would've just let it stew.
00:28:02.690 --> 00:28:03.339
Fester.
00:28:03.859 --> 00:28:04.309
Yeah.
00:28:04.650 --> 00:28:05.059
Yeah.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:06.609
Nice word.
00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:07.279
Fester.
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.970
I mean- you've basically just, like, completed the podcast there, Aaron.
00:28:11.009 --> 00:28:12.119
That's like the whole point of this podcast.
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:12.569
Cool.
00:28:12.650 --> 00:28:12.880
So-
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:13.430
I mean, it was
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:13.940
nice to
00:28:13.940 --> 00:28:14.130
see
00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:14.450
you yeah, that's great.
00:28:14.450 --> 00:28:15.380
Great, great chats.
00:28:15.390 --> 00:28:16.250
See you later.
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:21.829
But I, ah, like, when you're talking I was like,"Yes," because you're so right.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:27.130
We are brought up conditioned to, like, succeed for other people.
00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:27.160
Yeah.
00:28:28.150 --> 00:28:43.733
For other teachers, parents, bosses, whatever, and no one gives us permission- And also no one encourages us to look inside and be like,"Well, what does it mean for me?"
00:28:44.314 --> 00:28:44.344
And
00:28:44.663 --> 00:28:50.673
I love what you said, like the idea of just the, you know, the morning of like having a mocha, reading a b- mornings are my favorite time of day.
00:28:50.894 --> 00:28:56.233
And actually that like gloriousness sounds absolutely delightful.
00:28:56.433 --> 00:28:58.743
So well done you on being so successful.
00:28:59.804 --> 00:29:00.683
Oh, thank you.
00:29:01.804 --> 00:29:07.604
But people will see it differently as well, you know, if someone says,"What are you doing?" And I'm like,"Oh, I'm just, I'm reading my...
00:29:07.604 --> 00:29:17.084
I spend an hour every morning sort of reading my book and having my mocha." And they're like,"Oh do you not work anymore?" And I'm like,"Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I work.
00:29:17.364 --> 00:29:17.753
Yeah.
00:29:18.544 --> 00:29:27.294
I just, I start work at half 10 so that I can make sure that I have this time for myself, because starting this way every day is really good for my soul.
00:29:28.034 --> 00:29:29.683
It's my happy place.
00:29:29.743 --> 00:29:43.124
It's how I like to start the day." The fact that you're conditioned to go to work at half past eight or some, or whatever time it is every day and log in, I don't, to a phone or, it's been a while.
00:29:43.433 --> 00:29:45.403
You do the things with the keyboard.
00:29:45.433 --> 00:29:45.784
Yeah.
00:29:45.814 --> 00:29:46.173
Yeah.
00:29:46.223 --> 00:29:48.374
You tip, you tippy tappy and- clock in.
00:29:48.374 --> 00:29:50.903
I don't you know, like that's a choice.
00:29:51.114 --> 00:29:51.723
That's a choice.
00:29:51.733 --> 00:29:54.473
I made a choice and other people make other choices.
00:29:54.483 --> 00:29:58.844
They don't know that I then work from sort of half 10 till sort of 7 or 8 o'clock at night.
00:29:59.513 --> 00:30:04.824
You know, it's just, but that's, I, that's how I choose to do my workday, and that makes me happy.
00:30:05.703 --> 00:30:27.804
But it took a long time for mindset sort of coaching and a fantastic, uh, person who's very well known in the, neurolinguistic programming world to just one day say to me, when I used to say I felt so lucky to be in that situation in my corporate world, I felt so lucky, and now it's gone.
00:30:28.973 --> 00:30:33.443
And they'd be like they made me challenge myself with the word lucky.
00:30:33.574 --> 00:30:35.693
Did you not work hard for that, then?
00:30:35.903 --> 00:30:40.183
Was it all just, you know?" And I was like,"Well, no, I, I, I did.""Did you not...
00:30:41.263 --> 00:30:45.463
Were you not actually in the career for 15 years?" And it's like,"No, no, I, I, I was.
00:30:45.463 --> 00:30:48.503
I did spend 15 years working towards it." And it was that kind of-
00:30:48.513 --> 00:30:48.743
Yeah
00:30:49.384 --> 00:30:53.594
mindset where it took a while for me to be like, actually, I, I wasn't lucky.
00:30:53.644 --> 00:30:55.483
I'm not lucky in things.
00:30:55.634 --> 00:31:00.084
You only get things by working hard or being passionate about it.
00:31:00.144 --> 00:31:04.804
And so that's the mindset shift I have with success and failure.
00:31:04.804 --> 00:31:08.943
It's, takes a lot for me to feel like I've actually failed these days.
00:31:08.953 --> 00:31:17.653
I think there's only a few things I would feel like I failed in is if I upset someone or if I upset my partner, maybe I misread a situation.
00:31:18.983 --> 00:31:23.894
But it takes very little for me to feel, um, successful in my day at the moment.
00:31:25.364 --> 00:31:25.953
I love that.
00:31:27.374 --> 00:31:31.844
I've recently changed this question, so this might not be, it might not have been in your list of questions, but surprise.
00:31:31.894 --> 00:31:31.923
Oh, no.
00:31:32.314 --> 00:31:35.153
What are the three best decisions you've ever made?
00:31:37.508 --> 00:31:37.877
Ever?
00:31:38.377 --> 00:31:38.917
Yeah.
00:31:39.528 --> 00:31:39.748
Ever.
00:31:42.407 --> 00:31:45.577
To do with my work life or just ever?
00:31:45.607 --> 00:31:46.478
I'll take anything.
00:31:46.538 --> 00:31:47.998
I'll take whatever you're gonna give me.
00:31:48.008 --> 00:31:48.018
Ooh,
00:31:49.228 --> 00:31:49.317
interesting.
00:31:49.518 --> 00:31:54.087
I'll mix it, I'll mix it up so that, like, people don't get too bored about just me talking about my life.
00:31:55.887 --> 00:31:57.978
I mean, that's why we're all here, to listen to you talk about your life.
00:31:57.978 --> 00:31:58.827
But yes, continue.
00:31:58.877 --> 00:31:59.057
Oh,
00:31:59.057 --> 00:31:59.768
you guys.
00:32:02.528 --> 00:32:04.238
Best three decisions I ever made.
00:32:04.488 --> 00:32:08.117
One would have to be, it's the most obvious one.
00:32:08.678 --> 00:32:11.667
I was trying to think of something a bit more profound, but it's the most obvious one.
00:32:12.167 --> 00:32:18.097
Deciding to leave the corporate world and sort of take that sort of step back.
00:32:18.218 --> 00:32:22.798
That's probably one of the best decisions I've made because it's led to me with what I'm doing now.
00:32:23.597 --> 00:32:31.607
And with that kind of decision, I guess it would be taking a chance on myself because that's happened a few times after that in different ways.
00:32:31.617 --> 00:32:33.278
So I'm taking that as one.
00:32:33.377 --> 00:32:33.678
Yep.
00:32:34.228 --> 00:32:34.307
I'll
00:32:34.377 --> 00:32:34.778
take that.
00:32:34.778 --> 00:32:34.788
Yeah.
00:32:34.788 --> 00:32:35.498
Taking a chance on myself.
00:32:35.498 --> 00:32:35.718
Yeah.
00:32:36.038 --> 00:32:36.728
I'm being cheeky.
00:32:36.728 --> 00:32:37.347
I'm cheating.
00:32:37.607 --> 00:32:39.597
You're doing the, if I had a genie, what are my wishes?
00:32:39.597 --> 00:32:40.067
More wishes.
00:32:40.067 --> 00:32:40.748
I love it.
00:32:40.758 --> 00:32:41.028
More
00:32:41.028 --> 00:32:41.377
wishes.
00:32:41.428 --> 00:32:42.867
Hack, hack the system.
00:32:42.867 --> 00:32:43.468
You've,
00:32:43.468 --> 00:32:44.627
you've gotta get it somehow.
00:32:44.627 --> 00:32:44.657
You're
00:32:44.827 --> 00:32:45.307
successful.
00:32:45.307 --> 00:32:46.307
You get to do what you want.
00:32:46.597 --> 00:32:46.988
You're good.
00:32:47.028 --> 00:32:48.298
I'll have 300 wishes.
00:32:49.248 --> 00:32:53.167
So yeah, taking that chance on myself to try something new, I'd say.
00:32:53.347 --> 00:33:05.238
To stop feeling embarrassed- would probably be one of the biggest mindset shifts that I had in my wellness career that, that then caused everything else to flourish.
00:33:05.488 --> 00:33:07.147
Say more about that In what sense?
00:33:07.208 --> 00:33:10.178
Again, it, it's all, it was all the perception of other people.
00:33:10.188 --> 00:33:10.198
Mm.
00:33:10.298 --> 00:33:14.617
It's taken, uh, quite a long time to get out of that sort of mindset.
00:33:14.798 --> 00:33:18.837
That was my biggest thing to work on for myself when I was going through coaching.
00:33:18.968 --> 00:33:25.147
'Cause it doesn't just come down to the success looks like success to other people, is what I was striving for.
00:33:25.178 --> 00:33:28.738
It's the same with a lot of other things in my life from years ago.
00:33:29.218 --> 00:33:37.698
So anything I did in my new sort of wellness world or my new job, my new career, felt embarrassing.
00:33:38.508 --> 00:33:44.548
I felt embarrassed, and the reasons behind it were obviously unfounded.
00:33:44.567 --> 00:33:46.337
They were not good reasons.
00:33:46.407 --> 00:33:51.847
Made me feel like an awful person years and years later for feeling embarrassed, but it was from everything.
00:33:51.867 --> 00:33:54.857
I'd feel embarrassed saying that this is what I did.
00:33:55.258 --> 00:34:07.248
Because maybe people around me, family members, friends, ex-colleagues might judge me and, feel,"Oh, God, he's one of those," and it would be, I'd feel embarrassed trying something new.
00:34:07.347 --> 00:34:11.827
Starting sort of like opening a building to do practice from.
00:34:12.628 --> 00:34:21.338
That was embarrassing, putting my name on a, on a sign and stuff like that, like that's em- that's embarrassing'cause someone might walk past and be like that's cute.
00:34:21.347 --> 00:34:34.327
He's still trying to do this." Going to London to see clients for sort of mindset coaching and running into people on the train, uh, that I know or used to know them saying,"What's, where are you heading now?
00:34:34.358 --> 00:34:41.487
Is it for work?" And be like, I'd feel embarrassed explaining that, yeah, actually, I am going to London to do work for a client.
00:34:42.768 --> 00:34:46.188
After all these years sort of like what kind of, what work are you doing in London?
00:34:46.188 --> 00:34:47.737
Now I'm doing some mindset coaching.
00:34:47.748 --> 00:34:49.148
Felt really embarrassing.
00:34:49.268 --> 00:35:01.335
But- Once I shifted that whole mindset of i- it's too much, in the simplest way to put it, caring too much what other people thought-
00:35:01.485 --> 00:35:01.775
Yeah
00:35:02.286 --> 00:35:03.646
in so many different ways.
00:35:03.746 --> 00:35:25.005
And it just, that feeling of embarrassment when you were hitting goals or, or achieving targets or gaining new clients or winning awards or anything, the fact that you feel, or that I felt embarrassed about that is it was baffling at the time when, um, the whole mindset sort of shifted.
00:35:25.005 --> 00:35:36.385
But once I let go of that embarrassment and realized I didn't, uh, you know, I didn't really care anymore everything just flourished, and I was more happy doing it.
00:35:36.385 --> 00:35:37.326
Nothing would've changed.
00:35:37.346 --> 00:35:39.485
I would've still done the exact same things that I'm doing.
00:35:39.485 --> 00:35:44.306
I still would've done the s- opened the same stuff and went to this and that and won the same clients.
00:35:44.326 --> 00:35:53.746
But I was happier doing it because now if someone sort of bumps into me on a train saying,"What are you doing?" I'm like,"Yeah, fuck yeah, this is what I do." Am I allowed to swear?
00:35:54.246 --> 00:35:56.126
The podcast is called Successful as Fuck.
00:35:56.135 --> 00:35:57.175
Of course you're allowed to swear.
00:35:57.306 --> 00:35:57.695
Oh, yes.
00:35:57.695 --> 00:35:58.425
No, it's true.
00:35:58.496 --> 00:35:58.775
Yes.
00:36:00.585 --> 00:36:01.226
It's very true.
00:36:01.226 --> 00:36:02.226
I didn't even think of that
00:36:04.460 --> 00:36:05.039
Amazing.
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:05.960
I really love that.
00:36:06.099 --> 00:36:07.170
Thank you for sharing.
00:36:08.670 --> 00:36:09.590
Thanks for asking.
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:10.449
Do you have a number three?
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:11.679
Oh, yeah.
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:17.099
So leaving my situation, like the co- like taking a chance on myself, that was one.
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:20.820
To stop being embarrassed by what I thought others thought was number two.
00:36:21.889 --> 00:36:24.730
It's hard to think of a third one because there's so many.
00:36:25.170 --> 00:36:25.260
Mm.
00:36:25.269 --> 00:36:33.829
And I feel like one of them would have to be, like, a personal one of, um, going over and speaking to my partner.
00:36:35.309 --> 00:36:37.675
Uh- I was hoping you'd say something like this.
00:36:37.675 --> 00:36:41.110
It's like,"Ugh, going on a first date with my partner is not one of my best decisions.
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:42.550
Oh, no." Yes, good.
00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:43.010
I'm pleased.
00:36:43.030 --> 00:36:43.440
Okay.
00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:43.719
Yes.
00:36:44.230 --> 00:36:53.780
Actually going to, um, repeatedly to try and convince him to have a drink with me, even though he kept saying no, was probably...
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:57.389
To, to persevere was probably- I love that the best decision into it.
00:36:57.389 --> 00:36:57.670
Yeah.
00:36:57.730 --> 00:36:59.019
I, I would say that's probably...
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.420
To lay down some of the best chat-up lines I've ever had.
00:37:03.619 --> 00:37:05.909
Um, to make him laugh.
00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:10.460
Those kind of decisions is what make me feel successful these days.
00:37:11.389 --> 00:37:12.880
I absolutely love that.
00:37:13.010 --> 00:37:13.800
I love all of them.
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.019
What advice would you give your younger self?
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:36.460
That one's tough because if I was able to give advice to my younger self in order to change the trajectory of my life, but still meet my partner and all that- Mm you know what I mean?
00:37:36.469 --> 00:37:36.500
Like-
00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:36.940
Yeah.
00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:38.039
Camille said exactly this.
00:37:38.090 --> 00:37:38.420
Oh, really?
00:37:38.420 --> 00:37:44.059
They were like,"You know, I, I wouldn't change anything'cause, like, it's led me to where I am now." And I think it's a really good point.
00:37:44.110 --> 00:37:45.489
I think, yeah.
00:37:45.519 --> 00:38:01.829
But let's say if you could just give your younger self some advice to reduce the amount of pain that you felt, particularly- Mm in that period when you were really depressed, and even if you still had to go through the depression anything you'd say?
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:02.969
Yeah.
00:38:02.969 --> 00:38:09.250
I'd probably say to that it's okay to admit that something's wrong-
00:38:09.670 --> 00:38:09.840
Mm
00:38:09.869 --> 00:38:16.739
and to tell people that you need to take a step into a space for you to take a moment to breathe.
00:38:17.429 --> 00:38:25.980
Because if I had done that when I was going through depression, I don't know what necessarily would've happened.
00:38:26.190 --> 00:38:28.179
It might have changed a lot of stuff.
00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:29.480
I might not have got depression.
00:38:30.409 --> 00:38:43.864
Um, and even though I don't wanna end up anywhere that I'm not now it's still If I could probably go back, I would probably try to do what I could so that I didn't have to go through it.
00:38:44.804 --> 00:38:45.153
Yeah.
00:38:45.153 --> 00:38:56.643
So it'd probably be like, I didn't tell anyone how I was feeling and it built up and then just knocked me sideways, which is why I just had to sort of like step out straight away.
00:38:57.304 --> 00:39:01.974
So if I could go back, it would probably be to, that's not to be embarrassed.
00:39:02.313 --> 00:39:07.094
And not to feel like you have to not say anything because of what other people might think.
00:39:09.293 --> 00:39:11.393
And then maybe I could have avoided the depression.
00:39:13.204 --> 00:39:17.583
I think depression's such an interesting one, isn't it?
00:39:17.634 --> 00:39:26.974
Obviously everyone has very different experience with it, but I think it's so typically portrayed as like crying all the time, and it's so much more than that.
00:39:27.023 --> 00:39:27.554
And I think-
00:39:27.554 --> 00:39:27.943
Mm-hmm
00:39:28.173 --> 00:39:41.483
I really resonate with what you said about it just almost like surprising you and just s- you know, you think,"Oh, I'm good, I'm good," and you, you go 110 miles an hour until suddenly you just can't.
00:39:42.094 --> 00:39:52.764
And you don't know it at the time, but like it's that the pushing of like, for me anyway, it was like,"Oh, you know, it's just, it's just another midnight finish.
00:39:52.764 --> 00:39:55.853
It's just another Saturday morning checking my emails and get-" Mm.
00:39:56.324 --> 00:40:09.112
That like relentlessness and the not resting has a consequence, but you don't realize it and'cause some- no one tells you.
00:40:09.231 --> 00:40:11.601
It's just a g- back to the success piece.
00:40:11.601 --> 00:40:18.612
It's that's kind of what success looks like, the nonstop and achieve, achieve, achieve, and- Yeah tick, tick, tick and have an empty inbox.
00:40:19.231 --> 00:40:23.311
Um, and no one says, this is gonna make you unwell one day."
00:40:24.592 --> 00:40:26.731
Yeah, and it's, it's a shame because it's...
00:40:26.731 --> 00:40:28.141
I- if we could change it, we would.
00:40:28.402 --> 00:40:28.702
Mm.
00:40:28.711 --> 00:40:31.692
But it's like that with so many things at the minute.
00:40:32.391 --> 00:40:48.672
You know, social media and, you have to look like X, Y, and Z, and especially for women because it's, you know, unfortunately, I feel, a lot harder when it's, there are expectations which is of unfair expectations.
00:40:49.661 --> 00:40:55.891
And no one sort of steps in and says,"You know, you don't have to really care about this." Like, you don't really
00:40:55.891 --> 00:40:55.931
have-
00:40:55.931 --> 00:40:55.972
Well,
00:40:55.972 --> 00:40:56.972
you're telling it right now.
00:40:57.711 --> 00:40:57.965
You're telling
00:40:57.965 --> 00:40:58.188
people.
00:40:58.188 --> 00:40:58.461
Well, yeah.
00:40:58.521 --> 00:40:59.742
Let's change the world.
00:41:00.681 --> 00:41:03.931
Like, telling people in my things, like,"D- t- don't care about that.
00:41:03.931 --> 00:41:04.902
It's fine."
00:41:04.952 --> 00:41:19.592
I think it, there is like a, a lot of power in what you are doing because you're not just saying,"Oh, don't worry about it." You're giving people tools and techniques as to how to- Mm not worry about it, and I think there's a big difference in that, and I think there's a lot of power in that.
00:41:19.681 --> 00:41:25.431
And I, you know, I often say this podcast is the antidote to Steven Bartlett's Diary of a CEO.
00:41:25.442 --> 00:41:25.461
Yeah.
00:41:26.251 --> 00:41:27.961
We don't talk about optimization here.
00:41:28.382 --> 00:41:29.291
No shade on Steven.
00:41:29.362 --> 00:41:31.032
But oops.
00:41:31.192 --> 00:41:33.021
You can mention that when he comes on your podcast
00:41:34.351 --> 00:41:34.402
one day.
00:41:34.402 --> 00:41:34.942
Remember, remember when I...
00:41:35.001 --> 00:41:36.132
Yeah, cool, great.
00:41:36.141 --> 00:41:36.161
Yeah.
00:41:36.692 --> 00:41:44.262
But yeah, like I think it's, it is that give yourself permission to meet yourself where you are- and have that be okay.
00:41:46.465 --> 00:41:58.286
Yeah, my, one of my favorite things to hear from people is When people message me and say,"You know, I'm, I'm so fascinated how you were able to go do your own thing and make it work.
00:41:58.496 --> 00:42:03.016
I wish I could do that." And it's like, m- you can do that.
00:42:03.516 --> 00:42:12.436
Some- and so I say it's, like, my favorite thing to hear people say that because it shows that other people want to, but at the same time it's sad that they feel like they can't.
00:42:13.315 --> 00:42:13.956
But I get that.
00:42:13.956 --> 00:42:16.016
People's lives are so individual.
00:42:16.945 --> 00:42:20.425
It's depends on the whole entire individual situation.
00:42:20.425 --> 00:42:21.916
It might not be that easy for people.
00:42:23.025 --> 00:42:26.186
Everyone can't follow the exact same path that we all lead.
00:42:26.255 --> 00:42:29.146
It's not gonna work, or it's not gonna be interesting for them.
00:42:29.956 --> 00:42:30.286
No.
00:42:30.536 --> 00:42:31.376
And then we'd all be the same.
00:42:31.376 --> 00:42:32.175
But you, you are right.
00:42:32.175 --> 00:42:37.945
I think sometimes it sounds like maybe they're also asking you for permission because they can't find it in themselves.
00:42:38.445 --> 00:42:48.865
Yeah, and then if you're able to help people, it's, it's like you say, like, a big part of the mindset, coaching is making people realize that they actually have the tools themselves to help themselves.
00:42:49.965 --> 00:43:03.585
It's not giving them any answers or saying,"Yes, you are allowed to do this," or,"No, you're not allowed to feel that way." It's just helping them realize that they've got the tools in their arsenal to maybe dig themselves out if they can.
00:43:04.405 --> 00:43:04.755
Yeah.
00:43:04.806 --> 00:43:07.246
Taking back agency, I think is huge.
00:43:07.255 --> 00:43:11.326
Uh, well, you've just answered our next question, what permission do you want to give others through your story?
00:43:11.326 --> 00:43:13.266
So w- we'll skip over that one unless- Oh, no.
00:43:13.416 --> 00:43:13.936
Go on there's anything you wanna add.
00:43:14.615 --> 00:43:15.175
Nailed it.
00:43:16.295 --> 00:43:22.726
Just completing the podcast here without me even- Just- Yeah podcast completed I should've just, like, left you with the mic and gone on and made a cup of tea and you'd have been grand.
00:43:23.425 --> 00:43:24.666
I, um, I do ramble.
00:43:24.766 --> 00:43:28.505
It's like when I'm teaching, I always say to people,"I, I do apologize, I do ramble."
00:43:28.755 --> 00:43:29.085
I love it.
00:43:29.085 --> 00:43:29.596
So.
00:43:29.596 --> 00:43:30.615
It's, it's, it's a chat though.
00:43:31.826 --> 00:43:34.065
That being said, we are about to move into quick fire.
00:43:34.396 --> 00:43:34.945
Are you ready?
00:43:34.956 --> 00:43:35.226
Ooh.
00:43:35.596 --> 00:43:37.135
No, I'm not good at quick fire.
00:43:38.905 --> 00:43:39.186
I disagree.
00:43:39.186 --> 00:43:39.385
But I'm gonna
00:43:39.655 --> 00:43:39.925
try.
00:43:39.976 --> 00:43:41.356
We're about to find out, aren't we?
00:43:41.735 --> 00:43:42.076
Okay.
00:43:42.405 --> 00:43:42.976
Deep breath.
00:43:44.976 --> 00:43:47.965
One word to describe your current relationship with success
00:43:48.456 --> 00:43:50.025
No, this is too, uh, it's too hard.
00:43:50.065 --> 00:43:50.795
No, I'm joking.
00:43:52.746 --> 00:43:53.385
It's too much.
00:43:53.385 --> 00:43:53.686
It's too much.
00:43:53.686 --> 00:43:53.775
I'm
00:43:53.775 --> 00:43:54.195
not doing it.
00:43:54.215 --> 00:43:54.655
Don't like it.
00:43:56.516 --> 00:43:56.715
All right.
00:43:56.715 --> 00:43:57.356
Let me take a sip.
00:43:57.356 --> 00:43:57.666
Sorry.
00:43:57.666 --> 00:44:01.666
Okay.
00:44:01.856 --> 00:44:02.146
Okay.
00:44:02.166 --> 00:44:02.476
Sorry.
00:44:02.516 --> 00:44:02.635
Okay.
00:44:02.686 --> 00:44:03.076
Go again.
00:44:05.536 --> 00:44:08.835
One word to describe your current relationship with success.
00:44:09.626 --> 00:44:10.346
Evolving.
00:44:10.606 --> 00:44:10.635
Yes.
00:44:11.496 --> 00:44:13.976
Your non-negotiable boundary that protects you from burnout
00:44:15.976 --> 00:44:16.856
Time for myself.
00:44:18.085 --> 00:44:19.606
What does rest look like for you?
00:44:19.615 --> 00:44:19.626
A
00:44:20.635 --> 00:44:21.215
mocha.
00:44:21.686 --> 00:44:22.146
Yes.
00:44:23.036 --> 00:44:26.795
One thing you wish more people knew about building a sustainable life
00:44:29.795 --> 00:44:35.876
That they can do it, that there are people around them to support, even if they don't realize that there are
00:44:37.746 --> 00:44:40.365
The success metric that matters to you most right now?
00:44:41.686 --> 00:44:42.286
Happiness.
00:44:43.335 --> 00:44:46.255
And what makes you feel- Cheesy most successful as far-
00:44:48.255 --> 00:44:50.005
My partner being happy
00:44:51.106 --> 00:44:53.576
Oh, I love that so much.
00:44:53.576 --> 00:44:55.835
It's so cheesy, but it's so true.
00:44:56.076 --> 00:44:56.146
It's
00:44:56.146 --> 00:44:56.195
so nice.
00:44:56.195 --> 00:44:56.945
I can't help it.
00:44:56.945 --> 00:44:57.166
I love that.
00:44:57.686 --> 00:45:01.585
When they see me being so happy doing what I'm doing, that makes me happy.
00:45:02.445 --> 00:45:04.646
Oh, it's like a circle of happiness.
00:45:04.746 --> 00:45:05.146
There's nothing better.
00:45:05.146 --> 00:45:05.615
Exactly.
00:45:05.726 --> 00:45:09.085
Like, everyone will be like,"You wasted that on saying it was someone...
00:45:09.096 --> 00:45:14.275
Like, someone else for your success." But honestly, like, my success stems from my partner.
00:45:14.896 --> 00:45:29.206
After the years of seeing me come home without a smile, when my partner sees me laughing or having fun and coming home saying I love what I do, and seeing that look on their face is my success.
00:45:30.346 --> 00:45:32.456
You also have that really great T-shirt, don't you?
00:45:32.456 --> 00:45:35.085
Like, is it say, like, wait till you see my smile or something on it?
00:45:35.096 --> 00:45:36.146
Have you seen my smile?
00:45:36.146 --> 00:45:36.596
It's great.
00:45:36.596 --> 00:45:37.065
Yeah.
00:45:37.416 --> 00:45:38.485
I think that's so true, though.
00:45:38.516 --> 00:45:40.206
Like, you can lose your smile.
00:45:40.565 --> 00:45:41.965
You can lose it, and-
00:45:42.106 --> 00:45:42.416
Yeah
00:45:42.496 --> 00:45:43.965
I'm really pleased it's back.
00:45:44.626 --> 00:45:45.135
Me too.
00:45:46.306 --> 00:45:46.945
As am I.
00:45:48.255 --> 00:45:48.856
Thanks, Aaron.
00:45:48.856 --> 00:45:50.235
This was so fun.
00:45:50.976 --> 00:45:53.675
Oh, it's so nice to see you and talk to you and everything.
00:45:54.766 --> 00:46:01.126
I asked Aaron what he'd tell his younger self, and this is what he said,"It's okay to admit something's wrong.
00:46:02.135 --> 00:46:08.925
It's okay to tell people you need to take a step back and take a moment to breathe." He didn't do that.
00:46:09.186 --> 00:46:11.425
It built up, and then it knocked him sideways.
00:46:13.056 --> 00:46:26.985
The thing that stayed with me is what he said about embarrassment, that he would have done it all anyway, same practice, same clients, same awards, but he'd have been happier doing it years earlier if he'd let go of caring what people thought about it sooner.
00:46:28.396 --> 00:46:29.706
The work wasn't the problem.
00:46:30.036 --> 00:46:31.545
The audience in his head was.
00:46:32.335 --> 00:46:34.056
How many of us can resonate with that?
00:46:35.556 --> 00:46:37.155
So here's my question for you this week.
00:46:37.956 --> 00:46:40.766
Whose perspective are you being successful from?
00:46:41.496 --> 00:46:44.965
Whose face do you picture when you imagine telling them what you really want to do?
00:46:45.766 --> 00:46:49.896
And what would you do differently tomorrow if that person simply wasn't in the room?
00:46:51.115 --> 00:46:53.585
I'm sure you'll agree that Aaron is an incredible human.
00:46:53.945 --> 00:46:57.516
We'll put the links in the show notes for those of you who want to know more and work with him.
00:46:59.396 --> 00:47:03.686
This brings me to something I've been sitting on, and I'm telling you here first.
00:47:04.235 --> 00:47:08.965
I'm running a half-day retreat called What's Actually Yours on Saturday the 10th of October.
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For 12 women to work out what they're actually carrying and what was never theirs to hold.
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If that sounds like a bit of you, go to Kali Coaching, k-a-l-i coaching.co.uk to find out more.
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And as always, I want to hear from you.
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If Aaron's story landed somewhere tender or you've got your own version of the train platform conversation you dread having, email me, successfulafpod@gmail.com.
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I read every single one.
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If this episode gave you something, please rate and review the show wherever you're listening and send it to someone who needs to hear it, the friend who keeps saying,"I wish I could do that." It genuinely helps more people find the show.
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Until then, go and be successful as fuck on your own terms.
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See you next time