ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Leadership gets distorted fast when your first promotion teaches you one lesson: hit the numbers at all costs. We push back on that trap and make a clear case for purpose-driven leadership, where wealth is the outcome and purpose is the engine. If you’ve ever felt like you’re running ragged chasing targets, this conversation gives you a better way to lead without losing your team, your culture, or yourself.
We break down the practical differences between leading for wealth and leading with purpose. That includes how short-term metrics and quarterly goals can force reactive decisions, while purpose acts like a long-term compass that protects reputation, values, and performance over the next decade. We also dig into human motivation: bonuses and titles can buy compliance, but meaningful work, autonomy, and shared values unlock creativity and self-motivation.
Employee retention becomes the proof point. A culture built only on financial targets creates “mercenaries” who will leave for a small raise. A purpose-led culture builds “missionaries” who stick around through hard quarters because they believe in the destination. We talk about what new managers can do when leadership above them only speaks spreadsheet, including how to translate KPIs into human objectives and why data informs but stories compel.
For entrepreneurs and small business owners, we share a practical playbook: define a real mission, eliminate greed-based revenue, and hire for culture fit. Purpose is also your competitive advantage that big companies can’t copy. If this resonates, subscribe, share the show with a new manager, and leave a review so more leaders can find it.
Presented by John Wandolowski and Greg Powell
SHOW NOTES 🔗
TRANSCRIPT 🔗
00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.079
Well, hello, and welcome to our podcast, Success, Secrets, and Stories.
00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:23.440
I'm your host, John Wondolowski, and I'm here with my co-host and friend, Greg Powell.
00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:24.320
Greg?
00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:26.000
Hey everybody.
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:37.759
And when we put together this podcast, we wanted to put out a helping hand and help that next generation and help answer the question of what does it mean to be a leader?
00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:43.600
Today we want to talk about a subject that I think supports that concept.
00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:55.600
Today, on our podcast, we are going to dismantle the fundamental trap, one that catches most of every ambitious person early in their career.
00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:02.560
It's the belief that leadership is defined by wealth that you generate rather than by the purpose that you cultivate.
00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:13.439
And let's be honest, when you first start to earn a title of manager or director or founder, your brain automatically jumps to building wealth.
00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:21.840
You look at the quarterly targets, the revenue goals, your new salary, or your business profit margins.
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:30.239
We've been conditioned to believe that a successful leader is simply a machine that converts human effort into financial capital.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:39.599
But if you lead strictly by wealth, you will quickly find yourself running ragged, like a dog chasing its own tail.
00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:41.519
Wealth is an outcome.
00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.840
Purpose is the engine.
00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:58.799
Today we're going to talk about and break down the transition from that metric-driven management style to becoming a purpose-driven leader and why that shift can actually make your business more profitable in the long run.
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:03.680
So let's start with a story everyone is familiar with.
00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:09.520
Let's face it, all through high school and college, the same mantra is repeated.
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:11.919
What do you want to be when you grow up?
00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:19.039
The view you have ahead of your career when you finish college is rarely the same vision you hold 20 years later.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:23.919
Like how many of us have a degree that has little relevance to our actual long-term career?
00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:26.560
That is where this discussion really starts.
00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.680
Are your career decisions based on building wealth?
00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:33.919
Or are they based on the purpose of what you are doing on this planet?
00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:39.439
The key here is that your priorities will change as the environment and conditions around you change.
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:46.560
It is impossible to fully imagine that environment as a 22-year-old grad from a great university in the Midwest.
00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:57.039
Now, if you're dealing with a good career counselor, they will tell you to keep your options open and understand that your degree is a starting point, not a fixed blueprint for your future.
00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.400
But the focus of this podcast is on leadership.
00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:08.000
As a leader, you have to understand the practical differences between building wealth and finding purpose in your career.
00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:17.840
So from a leadership viewpoint, let's look at some of the ways that we define the challenge of how wealth and purpose interact.
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:21.280
The first way is the short-term goals.
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.599
And wealth is often treated as a short-term goal.
00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.680
Financial metrics are looked at as either monthly or quarterly.
00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:36.800
You start estimating what your annual salary is going to be in an environment that you're in.
00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:46.000
Leading purely for wealth forces you into reactive, short-sighted decisions to protect your immediate cash flow.
00:03:46.639 --> 00:04:03.840
In contrast, purpose, its true long-term goal, purpose acts as an internal compass that forces you to ask the question Will this decision protect our reputation and the culture five years from now in the business that you're in?
00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.800
So let's look at the same equation from a different perspective.
00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:14.879
The human nature behind these two motivations, wealth versus purpose.
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:18.079
Wealth relies on external human drivers.
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:23.439
By that I mean money, bonuses, and titles are external rewards.
00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:30.000
They can create basic compliance from the working staff, but they often fail to inspire deep creativity.
00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:39.759
Purpose uses internal human drivers, such as meaningful work, a sense of autonomy, and shared values that come from within the organization.
00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:48.240
When team members understand why their work matters to real human beings, they become more capable of self-motivation.
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.519
But the next perspective is very interesting.
00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.560
John, let's talk about employee retention.
00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:55.600
Yeah.
00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:56.560
You're right.
00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.000
Employee retention is actually one of those challenges.
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:05.360
The concept of employee retention is usually an afterthought.
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:12.879
And sometimes people talk about retention challenges as if they were simply victims of the environment that they're in.
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:17.920
Now let's break it down into categories of wealth versus purpose.
00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:26.720
When employees are looking through the world of the lens of wealth, what they are creating is capital mercenaries.
00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:28.720
And that's really the essence of it.
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:38.720
If your company culture is solely built on hitting financial targets, your employees will leave to another competitor for a 5% increase in pay.
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:47.920
If you taught them that money is the only thing that matters, by the time you're trying to keep that strong employee from leaving, you've already lost the conversation.
00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:57.439
If wealth is the only thing that matters, discussions about healthcare costs and education funds and 401ks becomes a noise to the employee.
00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:02.480
They have learned that wealth is the only true matter because that's what you've taught them.
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:14.000
The hard reality is that anyone who stays with an organization after they've threatened to leave for a pay increase is often looked upon as not serious for advancement from that point on.
00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:21.279
Now, compare that to organizations that look at themselves through the eyes of purpose.
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.000
Purpose creates missionaries.
00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:32.319
And when employees feel connected to their organization, their goals, their ambitions, their loyalty skyrockets.
00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:37.600
They stay through difficult quarters because they believe in the destination of the organization.
00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.720
Purpose-driven companies demonstrate the value of employees' contributions.
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:51.839
Pay increases come only when they're part of the broader conversation about the employee's impact to the team.
00:06:52.639 --> 00:07:00.480
Now, if you're a new manager in a corporate structure, you might be thinking, this sounds great, but my director doesn't seem to care about purpose.
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.480
They care about the spreadsheet.
00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.040
How do you balance both?
00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:12.240
Well, you do it by protecting your team while delivering on your metrics or those KPIs, key performance indicators.
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:14.000
You become a translator.
00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:24.399
Your job is to take the cold, hard financial targets, hand it down from the executives, and then translate them into purposeful human objectives for your direct reports.
00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:36.000
And John, when I was thinking about this transition and how new managers handle the challenge of translating code metrics into a human message that inspires a team, I remembered your experience working in higher education.
00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:43.600
Maybe you can share a little bit about how your boss gave a directive and how you translated that directive to your team.
00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:48.720
Yeah, directive is kind of an interesting term, more of a demand.
00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:52.800
But that's a great example to talk about in terms of leadership.
00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:59.439
At one point in my career, I was a senior administrator in charge of new construction and facility maintenance.
00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:04.800
And that leader that I was dealing with was more of a dictator than a college president.
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:16.000
Anything he said felt like a veiled threat, and it seemed like he took entertainment and scaring staff and administrators by threatening their careers at a drop of a hat.
00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:25.920
To give you an example, he would set an impossible expectation, such as no change orders will be approved on any construction project.
00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:32.000
Now, if you're in the construction industry, you know that that's simply impossible.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:36.559
Especially when you're dealing with projects that range from$50 million to$100 million.
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:49.120
Now, architects, engineers, construction staff were really frustrated by the combative conversations about new scope on every discovery that construction was finding.
00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:10.000
What he was pushing for was to challenge every change order to ensure that we achieved the best possible outcome while minimizing the impact toward our contingency funds.
00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:17.120
I had to encourage my staff to get past his bravado and listen to the essence of what he was asking for.
00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:25.679
He wanted to make sure the institution was getting the best value for the construction costs associated with each construction job.
00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:37.039
And the proof was that 95% of the change orders that we presented him were justified, and it was considered acceptable in terms of scope creep.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:48.879
We were able to help him understand the changes from the academic world and his own personal perspectives were the change orders that were usually up for debate, but were still acceptable.
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:51.200
Notice what happened here.
00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:53.919
The operational goal remained the same.
00:09:54.159 --> 00:10:02.559
The matrix of the change order is still being challenged, but the psychology behind framing it is that shift.
00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:07.679
As a manager, you realize that data informs, but stories compel.
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:17.519
If you stand in front of your team and you talk only numbers, you are appealing to their logic, and logic alone does not make people care.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:27.279
You have to find a human impact in your department output and understand how your directions would feel if you were receiving them yourself.
00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:28.960
The words are simple.
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:39.759
So let's pivot a little bit to someone like a small business owner or entrepreneur.
00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:45.919
When you are running your own shop, the pressure to focus on wealth is intense.
00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.960
You gotta pay rent, you gotta meet peril, you have to get inventory.
00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.519
It is incredibly easy to let purpose slide when you're in survival mode.
00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:05.200
But here is a counterintuitive truth purpose is your ultimate competitive advantage against massive corporate organizations.
00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:07.600
Large companies have deep pockets.
00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.440
They can outspend you on marketing and underbid your price.
00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:17.120
What they cannot easily replicate is your deep, authentic, and local purpose.
00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:23.919
To build a purpose-driven small business that generates substantial wealth, implement three structured steps.
00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.399
First, make sure you define your core mission.
00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.840
Two, eliminate greed-based revenue.
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.039
And three, hire for culture when I write fit.
00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:48.960
Yeah, and Greg, when you say mission statement, he's implying that there is things like anti-mission statements.
00:11:49.840 --> 00:12:00.320
These include generic statements such as, we will provide quality service to maximize the value of the organization, which means absolutely nothing when you think about it.
00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:07.200
Instead, for a mission statement, write down what the business will never do to just make a profit.
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:17.039
For example, Subaru will never sell a Subaru that does not meet the performance and safety standards as one of the best in the automotive industry.
00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:18.960
Notice the difference.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.960
In terms of the description of the organization and how that relates to customers and employees.
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:43.200
That's an important point to understand.
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:58.000
Small businesses have to deal with clients who will pay their staff but treat them horribly, that create demands that violate customer core values or on occasion put employees at risk.
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:05.440
When you accept money from these kind of risk-based purchases, you are trading purpose for wealth.
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:17.039
Your team is watching you closely, and they see you tolerating abuse and compromising your ethics just for a paycheck, and they lose the respect of leadership.
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:23.279
If you can understand how greed can destroy an organization, any toxic client can be fired.
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:24.639
Think about that.
00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:33.600
To boost morale, operational efficiency will actually quickly replace whatever lost revenue you're dealing with.
00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.360
The last one on the list is probably the most obvious.
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:40.000
Hire for cultural alignment.
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:48.960
When you are working with a small team, it is tempting to hire the person with the highest sales track record or the most impressive resume.
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:57.919
But a lone wolf or solo operator who does not share the core values of your team will fracture the culture that you are trying to develop.
00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:02.480
So hire people who genuinely care about the problems your business solves.
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:07.279
You can train technical skills, but you cannot train a human being to care.
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:12.879
So let's go back to the general concept of leadership overall.
00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:22.320
Obviously, this is the discussion, and we are trying to emphasize that purpose-driven approach is better than a simple money grab.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:27.840
But the conflict comes in where you're trying to do a purpose-driven approach as an employee.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:40.320
And say you're 25 years old, that's kind of hard because at that point in your career, at 25, you're usually trying to make the decisions on what kind of income you can make rather than what kind of career you can develop.
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:42.240
But they are connected.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:52.639
And at that same time, when you have finished those entry-level positions, deciding whether you want to be wealth-driven or purpose-driven, that becomes a key element of your career.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:15:01.679
If all you're trying to do is make as much money as you can, there are organizations and institutions that will give you the opportunity to maximize your wealth.
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:08.399
Whether they are good or bad depends on how you interpret your goals and your ambitions in life.
00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:12.960
I think our implied recommendation is to understand that wealth is fleeting.
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:24.080
There are people who chase the dollar and at the end of their careers realize how much of a life they've missed while expecting the number of zeros in their bank account to give them a meaningful life.
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:31.360
What we are suggesting is that you have a purpose in your life and understand that a working environment can contribute to the human condition.
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:37.840
I work with human resources because I felt I could help individuals with their careers and their lives.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.799
That career allowed me to focus on helping others.
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:47.360
Purpose was not lost in terms of wealth, because I did build my wealth in my career to a vice president level.
00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:55.759
But I made conscious decisions to lead with purpose, and I found a balance between helping people at work and creating a better environment for my family at home.
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:59.200
That balance is an extension of what it means to be a leader.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:04.080
The results of my efforts are also creating the legacy I left behind.
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.840
Yes.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:09.679
So let's pull this together and give an overall view.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.159
Remember this simple sentence.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:18.000
Leadership is a practice, not a title, it's a behavior.
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:28.639
Wealth is measured that tells you whether your business is financially healthy, but purpose is the measurement that tells you whether your business will survive to the next decade.
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:39.919
When you lead with purpose, you create the environment where excellence becomes a standard, retention becomes easier, and wealth is a natural byproduct of your impact.
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.879
Hopefully, you've learned something from this podcast today.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:58.000
And if you've liked what you've heard, I've written a book called Building Your Leadership Toolbox, and we talk about tools like this, and it's available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and other sites.
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:00.399
The podcast is what you've been listening to.
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:01.519
Thank you so much.
00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.880
It's also available on Apple, Google, and Spotify.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:06.799
A lot of what we talk about is with Dr.
00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:08.480
Durst and his MBR program.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.319
If you'd like to know more about Dr.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.400
Durst, you can find out on SuccessGrowthAcademy.com.
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.200
And if you'd like to contact us, please send me a line.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:24.480
That's wando seventy-five periodjw at gmail.com.
00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.920
And the music has been brought to you by my grandson.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.240
So we want to hear from you.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:31.200
Drop me a line.
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:35.279
Tell me what's going on, what you like, and what you would like to hear about.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.000
It has always helped us to create content.
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:40.319
Thanks, Greg.
00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.440
This was fun.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:42.400
Thanks, John.
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:43.839
As always.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.119
Next time.
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:46.079
Yeah.