00:00:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: And Samantha.
00:00:07
Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. And today we are bringing back a Monday mini we did on First Lady Edith Wilson and the history, the interpretation that maybe she kind of was president for a while. While her husband was incapacitated. Incapacitated. Yeah. Yeah, because we're in early voting. We're in voting times. And I don't know why, but this story just came back to me of those things that maybe you look back on and you're like, oh, I did not realize that that's what was going on at that time. Well, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie.
00:01:07
Speaker 2: And Samantha.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I've Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today we are talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm just going to go ahead and say was not an ally, so I'm going to put that out there. But I was really interested in this story. The first time I heard about it was on Drunk History. I'd never heard about it before. And it was on my mind after the recent election inauguration. And watching 9 to 5 actually pushed it to the top of my mind. Because 9 to 5, you've got women who are kind of making all the decisions while the boss is incapacitated. So, yeah. We're just going to do a quick history. But there has been a lot written about this. So if you want to learn more. you, there's plenty of resources, and I'm going to mention one of them in this. Today, yeah, we're talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes called the first acting woman president. It's really complicated, but it is interesting. So let's get into it. Edith was born in Virginia in 1872. From a young age, she seemed eager for power. Her paternal grandmother described her as quote, bespectacled tyrant ruling from a rocking chair throne. Well, there you go. I know.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: That's a title to have. Bespectacled, even.
00:02:40
Speaker 1: That is a title to have. But she taught Edith how to read and write. Some French, even. She also taught Edith the Lost Cause myth, which is essentially the Civil War was something other than enslavement, which is not true. But she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her maternal grandmother was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes up in her story a lot. She even claimed, Edith later claimed, she was a direct descendant of the original colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas.
00:03:14
Speaker 2: So she's saying her ancestors raped people. Yeah. Okay.
00:03:19
Speaker 1: But I think at the time, it didn't have that. Oh, okay.
00:03:23
Speaker 2: My bad.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: No, you're right, but... Edith met and married President Woodrow Wilson in 1915, a second marriage for the both of them. Edith was a widow and had inherited her husband's D.C. jewelry shop. And records indicate that she was the first woman in the area to get a driver's license, so... All of these things, the job, the money, the license, the fact she didn't have kids, afforded her a level of independence that a lot of women didn't have access to at the time. And it was extremely important to her. To the point she actually turned down President Wilson's proposal at first. She was worried about losing her freedom and being subordinate as first lady. The president eventually won her over by sharing policy documents with which I'm almost confident was illegal.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: So he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Can we just say men are the worst?
00:04:24
Speaker 1: All right, keep going. Yes. All right, so their union did raise some eyebrows at the time and was somewhat of a political controversy because he married her about six months after the death of his previous wife. His aides even came up with a plot to keep her away from him. Uh, they got engaged somewhat secretly and she was much more politically involved than, uh, Wilson's previous wife had been, uh, even trying to sever his relations with those that had attempted to keep them apart. Uh, she also did away with a lot of the first lady duties that she wasn't interested in, uh, using the 1917 declaration of war. So no more hosting of events like the Easter egg roll. Um, From what I read, she was really into the image of the American housewife, though, which I find interesting because she canceled a lot of these events, but she was into the image of it. So she wore thrift store clothing. She sounds like she was very performative or like she wanted to project this image that she did believe in. I think she did believe in it, but she wanted to make sure you did know she believed in it.
00:05:34
Speaker 2: Right, so she wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yes. You need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but you're not as smart as me.
00:05:40
Speaker 1: Right, that's what I think, yeah. She made sure that at the White House they observed rationing and doing things like Meatless Mondays and Wheatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers, volunteered, named vessels, thousands by one source. decoded military messages, and gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved. And just to mention, kind of like I said at the top, Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every president's legacy is very complex. It was progressive in some ways, but also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time. So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly, there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought Edith was having undue influence on his policy, that he supported suffrage despite the anti-suffrage viewpoints of his wife. In 1919, President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, uh, in part from all the stress of world war one. He also had like a history of health conditions similar. Um, and his failure, he was really, uh, stressed about his failure to convince the U S to join the UN's precursor, the league of nations. So after the war, he was really like, we should, we should join a, an organization that's about peace. And then it failed and he was really stressed and he had a stroke. Um, With the help of some aides, Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about his condition for months, claiming that he was suffering from, quote, nervous exhaustion. This was before women could vote. A reminder, she kept this up for a year and five months in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She restricted who got to see him. And she informed people when he had decided on important issues. For months, she essentially assumed the role as president. The author of a biography on Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and Complex Legacy of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Boggs Roberts, has said that without a doubt, some of the decisions she made herself, whether because she could not ask him or chose not to, She most likely approved of cabinet member appointments and issued vetoes. So, as you might imagine, she was controversial amongst the staff. They, I would say very rightfully, didn't like that she was keeping them away from him. And she was almost certainly keeping stuff from her husband, too. We don't know for sure, but... She said later that it was, like, about his health. But anyway, anyway. She was called Presidentrist, Secret President, Gatekeeper, Extraordinary.
00:08:50
Speaker 2: Oof. I mean, she's getting these titles. From birth to now, like, she's receiving these titles. She was her. And I'm now seeing a lot of these plots, like, must be based on her. Like, a lot of these, like, presidential plot movies. Okay. All right. She... For all the bad things she does, all the lies she spills. The girl is doing her thing. Go ahead.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: Again, I want to read this book because she's such a fascinating, like, I don't want any women to have rights, but I'm be damned.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: But I will be the one that runs this country. Don't you worry about me.
00:09:26
Speaker 1: All right. So we don't know. There's a lot we don't know about this because we don't know for sure. She kept it secret if this was being done out of a desire to chase power or because she didn't want to upset him, Wilson, and worsen his condition. Both, maybe. She allegedly said that she believed resigning office would have killed him. It's also likely that she was doing what he would have done in terms of the decisions because she knew him really well. So it's not like she came into power and did something he wouldn't have done. She claimed she merely chose what was important enough for her husband to see and that she delayed a lot of it until he'd recovered. And you can look at all the stuff that happened in that period and make your own judgment. Also, legally, he should have resigned. We're not a legal podcast. We've said it a million times. But legally, technically, he should have resigned and let his vice president take over his duties. Apparently, neither Woodrow or Edith liked the vice president. Members of both main political parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency in But he refused, not wanting to set a precedent, which feels so strange now. Different podcast, but.
00:10:52
Speaker 2: I don't know. That sounds like Pence a little bit.
00:10:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. President Wilson died in 1924. Edith stayed in Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies. A lot of people say she really shaped what that position looks like in our modern day. I would, we should come back and do a deeper dive into that. But she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative. So she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such a different, the juxtaposition is so fascinating.
00:11:33
Speaker 2: I mean, it just sounds like she knew how to play the game.
00:11:36
Speaker 1: It sounds like she knew how to play the game.
00:11:39
Speaker 2: And she just needed the... It's kind of what we see in most people. People who are truly powerful know that they do not need to be the face.
00:11:47
Speaker 1: Right.
00:11:48
Speaker 2: They just need to pull the strings. Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker 1: And she really did. She really, like, behind every great man is a woman. She was like, yep.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: I am that great man. Yeah.
00:12:01
Speaker 1: So it's a really interesting story. I would love to check out the book again. Clearly, she wasn't an ally, so not saying anything like that.
00:12:11
Speaker 2: She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was just for her.
00:12:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just for her.
00:12:15
Speaker 2: I think she would be called a narcissist.
00:12:18
Speaker 1: I could see that.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know we throw that word around a lot, but this kind of level of, like, I know what's best, and I'm myself. No one else should have that same right.
00:12:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. That definitely felt like her whole deal was that, I know what's up. and I'm going to run this, and I'm not going to let anyone else interfere. But yeah, if I left out anything or got anything incorrect, I would love to hear from people. And if there's anything that you would like us to expand upon, from here, please let us know. You can email us at stephaniamomstuff at iheartmedia.com or hello at Stuff Mom Never Told You. You can find us on Blue Sky at Mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff Mom Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have a TeePublic store. And we have a book. You can get wherever you get your books. Thanks, as always, to our super producer, Christine, our executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
00:13:11
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:13:11
Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: And Samantha.
00:00:07
Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. And today we are bringing back a Monday mini we did on First Lady Edith Wilson and the history, the interpretation that maybe she kind of was president for a while. While her husband was incapacitated. Incapacitated. Yeah. Yeah, because we're in early voting. We're in voting times. And I don't know why, but this story just came back to me of those things that maybe you look back on and you're like, oh, I did not realize that that's what was going on at that time. Well, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie.
00:01:07
Speaker 2: And Samantha.
00:01:07
Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff I've Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today we are talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm just going to go ahead and say was not an ally, so I'm going to put that out there. But I was really interested in this story. The first time I heard about it was on Drunk History. I'd never heard about it before. And it was on my mind after the recent election inauguration. And watching 9 to 5 actually pushed it to the top of my mind. Because 9 to 5, you've got women who are kind of making all the decisions while the boss is incapacitated. So, yeah. We're just going to do a quick history. But there has been a lot written about this. So if you want to learn more. you, there's plenty of resources, and I'm going to mention one of them in this. Today, yeah, we're talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes called the first acting woman president. It's really complicated, but it is interesting. So let's get into it. Edith was born in Virginia in 1872. From a young age, she seemed eager for power. Her paternal grandmother described her as quote, bespectacled tyrant ruling from a rocking chair throne. Well, there you go. I know.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: That's a title to have. Bespectacled, even.
00:02:40
Speaker 1: That is a title to have. But she taught Edith how to read and write. Some French, even. She also taught Edith the Lost Cause myth, which is essentially the Civil War was something other than enslavement, which is not true. But she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her maternal grandmother was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes up in her story a lot. She even claimed, Edith later claimed, she was a direct descendant of the original colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas.
00:03:14
Speaker 2: So she's saying her ancestors raped people. Yeah. Okay.
00:03:19
Speaker 1: But I think at the time, it didn't have that. Oh, okay.
00:03:23
Speaker 2: My bad.
00:03:25
Speaker 1: No, you're right, but... Edith met and married President Woodrow Wilson in 1915, a second marriage for the both of them. Edith was a widow and had inherited her husband's D.C. jewelry shop. And records indicate that she was the first woman in the area to get a driver's license, so... All of these things, the job, the money, the license, the fact she didn't have kids, afforded her a level of independence that a lot of women didn't have access to at the time. And it was extremely important to her. To the point she actually turned down President Wilson's proposal at first. She was worried about losing her freedom and being subordinate as first lady. The president eventually won her over by sharing policy documents with which I'm almost confident was illegal.
00:04:18
Speaker 2: So he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Can we just say men are the worst?
00:04:24
Speaker 1: All right, keep going. Yes. All right, so their union did raise some eyebrows at the time and was somewhat of a political controversy because he married her about six months after the death of his previous wife. His aides even came up with a plot to keep her away from him. Uh, they got engaged somewhat secretly and she was much more politically involved than, uh, Wilson's previous wife had been, uh, even trying to sever his relations with those that had attempted to keep them apart. Uh, she also did away with a lot of the first lady duties that she wasn't interested in, uh, using the 1917 declaration of war. So no more hosting of events like the Easter egg roll. Um, From what I read, she was really into the image of the American housewife, though, which I find interesting because she canceled a lot of these events, but she was into the image of it. So she wore thrift store clothing. She sounds like she was very performative or like she wanted to project this image that she did believe in. I think she did believe in it, but she wanted to make sure you did know she believed in it.
00:05:34
Speaker 2: Right, so she wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yes. You need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but you're not as smart as me.
00:05:40
Speaker 1: Right, that's what I think, yeah. She made sure that at the White House they observed rationing and doing things like Meatless Mondays and Wheatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers, volunteered, named vessels, thousands by one source. decoded military messages, and gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved. And just to mention, kind of like I said at the top, Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every president's legacy is very complex. It was progressive in some ways, but also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time. So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly, there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought Edith was having undue influence on his policy, that he supported suffrage despite the anti-suffrage viewpoints of his wife. In 1919, President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, uh, in part from all the stress of world war one. He also had like a history of health conditions similar. Um, and his failure, he was really, uh, stressed about his failure to convince the U S to join the UN's precursor, the league of nations. So after the war, he was really like, we should, we should join a, an organization that's about peace. And then it failed and he was really stressed and he had a stroke. Um, With the help of some aides, Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about his condition for months, claiming that he was suffering from, quote, nervous exhaustion. This was before women could vote. A reminder, she kept this up for a year and five months in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She restricted who got to see him. And she informed people when he had decided on important issues. For months, she essentially assumed the role as president. The author of a biography on Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and Complex Legacy of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Boggs Roberts, has said that without a doubt, some of the decisions she made herself, whether because she could not ask him or chose not to, She most likely approved of cabinet member appointments and issued vetoes. So, as you might imagine, she was controversial amongst the staff. They, I would say very rightfully, didn't like that she was keeping them away from him. And she was almost certainly keeping stuff from her husband, too. We don't know for sure, but... She said later that it was, like, about his health. But anyway, anyway. She was called Presidentrist, Secret President, Gatekeeper, Extraordinary.
00:08:50
Speaker 2: Oof. I mean, she's getting these titles. From birth to now, like, she's receiving these titles. She was her. And I'm now seeing a lot of these plots, like, must be based on her. Like, a lot of these, like, presidential plot movies. Okay. All right. She... For all the bad things she does, all the lies she spills. The girl is doing her thing. Go ahead.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: Again, I want to read this book because she's such a fascinating, like, I don't want any women to have rights, but I'm be damned.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: But I will be the one that runs this country. Don't you worry about me.
00:09:26
Speaker 1: All right. So we don't know. There's a lot we don't know about this because we don't know for sure. She kept it secret if this was being done out of a desire to chase power or because she didn't want to upset him, Wilson, and worsen his condition. Both, maybe. She allegedly said that she believed resigning office would have killed him. It's also likely that she was doing what he would have done in terms of the decisions because she knew him really well. So it's not like she came into power and did something he wouldn't have done. She claimed she merely chose what was important enough for her husband to see and that she delayed a lot of it until he'd recovered. And you can look at all the stuff that happened in that period and make your own judgment. Also, legally, he should have resigned. We're not a legal podcast. We've said it a million times. But legally, technically, he should have resigned and let his vice president take over his duties. Apparently, neither Woodrow or Edith liked the vice president. Members of both main political parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency in But he refused, not wanting to set a precedent, which feels so strange now. Different podcast, but.
00:10:52
Speaker 2: I don't know. That sounds like Pence a little bit.
00:10:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. President Wilson died in 1924. Edith stayed in Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies. A lot of people say she really shaped what that position looks like in our modern day. I would, we should come back and do a deeper dive into that. But she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative. So she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such a different, the juxtaposition is so fascinating.
00:11:33
Speaker 2: I mean, it just sounds like she knew how to play the game.
00:11:36
Speaker 1: It sounds like she knew how to play the game.
00:11:39
Speaker 2: And she just needed the... It's kind of what we see in most people. People who are truly powerful know that they do not need to be the face.
00:11:47
Speaker 1: Right.
00:11:48
Speaker 2: They just need to pull the strings. Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker 1: And she really did. She really, like, behind every great man is a woman. She was like, yep.
00:11:57
Speaker 2: I am that great man. Yeah.
00:12:01
Speaker 1: So it's a really interesting story. I would love to check out the book again. Clearly, she wasn't an ally, so not saying anything like that.
00:12:11
Speaker 2: She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was just for her.
00:12:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just for her.
00:12:15
Speaker 2: I think she would be called a narcissist.
00:12:18
Speaker 1: I could see that.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: Yeah. I know we throw that word around a lot, but this kind of level of, like, I know what's best, and I'm myself. No one else should have that same right.
00:12:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. That definitely felt like her whole deal was that, I know what's up. and I'm going to run this, and I'm not going to let anyone else interfere. But yeah, if I left out anything or got anything incorrect, I would love to hear from people. And if there's anything that you would like us to expand upon, from here, please let us know. You can email us at stephaniamomstuff at iheartmedia.com or hello at Stuff Mom Never Told You. You can find us on Blue Sky at Mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff Mom Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have a TeePublic store. And we have a book. You can get wherever you get your books. Thanks, as always, to our super producer, Christine, our executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
00:13:11
Speaker 2: Thank you.
00:13:11
Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never Told You is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
