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This is the Startup Still Say podcast. Thank you for
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tuning in. Do us a favor like subscribe on YouTube
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or LinkedIn, and be sure to give us your feedback.
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Hope you enjoyed this episode.
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Hello everyone, welcome to a brand new episode of Startups.
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They'll say Happy new year to all of you. This
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is our first episode in twenty twenty six, and I'm
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super excited to have Arpen Gard from the New Delhi
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area in India, the founder and the leader of Communal,
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joining us today. I've been a big part of the
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open source community and communities in general over the career,
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so when I saw Communal and what Arpan's trying to do,
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I definitely piqued my interest. So I looked it up
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and seeing what he and his team are doing. Plus
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the fact that Arpen and I, I mean coincidentally just
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exchanged notes over LinkedIn for one of his needs and
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I was like, you know what, Arpun should come on
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the show, and I reached.
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Out and Arpen readily agree. It's Sharpen. Without further adio,
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welcome to the show.
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Thank you, Thank you, Anthony, and it's good to finally
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meet face to face, probably some day soon in person.
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As well.
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Yes, but yes, just went through the podcasts and everything
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that you've been doing. The audio part which you mentioned
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is consumed more is you know, super interesting that the
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way it is picking up and thank you for inviting
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me over measure.
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So you have a super cool platform going. But before
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we get to communal itself, let's talk a little bit
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about yourself, harp and tell about tell the audience a
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little bit about who you are, what brought you to communal,
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and maybe a little bit of a live story if
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you will.
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Sure, sure, So, I mean, if I were to say
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it's all been around building things from from d one.
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When I was a kid, and I'll just get back
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into a little bit of nostalgia. We were not allowed
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to watch cartoons during our school time or anything.
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There was you know, fear that that will get scolded.
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So there was no cartoon channel, and there were I
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guess maybe eleven or twelve channels on that you know
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cro type TV. We were made to watch Discovery, Discovery
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and Discovery Kids. So I still remember watching with my
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father a particular show called Extreme Machines, wherein they used
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to break down into how those you know, cars or
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different technology was built, how is it used to get developed.
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And that is I would say, at the core foundation
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of how I am able to think or come up
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with ideas or am always always still you know, been
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ten years into technology, but every time a new phone
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or any new gadget comes up, I'm equally excited to
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you know, equo it. So that that is probably where
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it started. Then during school had almost up till class twelfth.
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Every time there was a science fair in school, I
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used to have a stall no matter what, right from
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an automatic automatic stapler wherein you slide the paper its
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staples to something like that flower pot that you used
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to see that you put the stick into two colored
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waters and the flower used to have two half colors,
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to a lot of other projects that were there. And
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this journey continued even translating into my college, wherein I
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had seen this problem that a whole village sit has
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motorcycles at sec engines and there were five or seven
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people sitting, the whole family sitting on that hundred sec engine,
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and I thought, why can't we translate this into a
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four wheeler. And that was a project that we built.
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We drove to the college. It was a three fueld
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hybrid car. So there are there are a number of
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good and bad and really bad examples which I followed
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through in terms of building and alongside you know, came
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in a number of startups that I have worked with
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some great people and today yes, here I am trying
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to build one of my own.
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Awesome that is an awesome backstory.
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I would have never guessed that extreme engineering or extreme machines.
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As they call it on Discovery fueled who you are.
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I will always remember you when I see another episode
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of that again. I mean I used to follow it
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growing up as well. I mean, especially the episodes on
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you know how they do aircraft engines or building bridges
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or you know, skyscrapers and all of that. Absolutely so amazing, great,
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great story, I mean, and that's why parents always want
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to sow the seeds when the kids are young. Right,
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So now you're thankful to your parents as well, absolutely yeah,
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so as your dad. Are your parents proud of you
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for showing your discovery and nothing else Back in the day,
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I think you.
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Know, if you if you've seen three dates, there was
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a certain period of time wherein I was that kid
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who used to just pick up the screw driver and
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open up anything, so especially during that period, they wouldn't
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have been, but I hope they are right now.
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Ye.
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Fascinating story, so thanks, thanks so much for sharing that.
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That's that's a really really nice nostalgia. As you said, right,
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looking back at your career from where you are, Let's
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start with you know you're coming out of school in
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college almost ten fifteen years ago, right, so obviously you
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have this passion and in a way in your blood
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saying hey, I want to build things. I want to
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go after you know, new things to solve world problems
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or you know, common problems out there. We always have
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a choice, right, I mean now, coming out of college
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in India, you're always given like two three choices. You
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either become an engineer or you become a get into
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software or I don't know what engineering.
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Or which course you did.
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And you also, I mean at least back when I
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was coming out of college, I mean you either had
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it or you know, you had something else.
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You know, most of the kids chose it and moved on.
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So nowadays, I mean, at least with the way the
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startup world is and you know how the small businesses
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in India the scene is very different. So did you
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tell yourself saying, hey, I don't want to work for
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a corporate I want to be in the small business
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or the startup world. I mean, how did what was
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your thinking, especially with the sort of DNA and the wiring.
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That you were brought up with, What is your thinking
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coming out of college?
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So I would say that I didn't have much of
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a choice.
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One thing was clear that I wanted to do engineering,
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and I picked up electronics because I wanted to get
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into robotics. The college being in a Tier two, Tier
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three city, we.
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Didn't even get the r of it.
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But yes, one small thing that I was able to
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do was find the shop which supplied those parts to
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the college's lab. I used to buy it from there
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and assemble my own circuits and test it out in
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the college, all those things. So that was more interesting.
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But what happened was, and I was academically doing very
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well in the college. I was only studying one of
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those per Haku students and everything because I just found
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it interesting that, you know, how much more can I
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grasp until I reach and max out? So just out
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of college, I was like, okay, I've talked, I've ranked
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one across all branches so companies will be running after
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me without considering the college. So that didn't happen a
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lot and a lot of rejections.
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I used to just measure the.
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Length of the metro Deli metro going from company to company,
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good places, shady places, giving interviews and getting highest marks,
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but getting rejected because of the branch, or just getting
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rejected because of the branch, or maybe you know, not
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getting an interview, because mostly the roles were into programming
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and not electronics. So I got my first job, fortunately
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at the digital marketing company, which used to manage the
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online reputation of a lot of brands. So the brands
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I used to handle was w FO Woman or MTV
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exit HarperCollins, So these brands were the ones I was
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having a lot of fun in terms of generating ideas.
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There was absolutely no scope of failing because you were
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expert menting with creative ideas into marketing to what would work.
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We used to trend on Twitter and everything, and they
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were kind enough to give me a lot of ownership.
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But at the end of six months, when my probation
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completed five and a half or six months, I had
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the option to continue or to do something else. This
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is where I took a step back because I was
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spending around four to five hours daily in the metro
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traveling from one end to the other. And what I
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had been going through at the back of my head
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was I was taking someone's platform, in someone's product, and
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creating that marketing strategy. I was enjoying it, but I
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had a calling that I wanted to be on either
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side of building things, building from scratch.
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Or maybe growing something existing.
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And that is where I decided to redive into programming. Somehow,
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computers came easy to me, so that is why I
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was not interested to take it up as a branch
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in college. I was like, you know, this is something
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I'll do on the side or something. So that is
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where the journey started. I took up programming again, got
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into my first job, which was initially an unpaid internship
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for a month. That too, I got because no one
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else raised hands in the class where I was learning
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coding when the project was being handed over. So then
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the next day, after a month, they offered me an internship.
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The next day itself, they offered me a full time job.
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And I was balancing between going to the US because
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I had my gi scores or anything. But then I thought,
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you know, those two years of MS versus two years
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of building something from scratch, Let's take this chance. And
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I would say that is where the journey started. And
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that first job taught me a lot because I was
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directly thrown amongst sharks, people from at the director level
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of Amazon, Facebook and doctors from AMES in Delhi, and
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me being the sole developer. So sitting at the reception
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teaching reception is how to use it, what I was
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building while using it and building it myself, and the
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doctor shouting that UPE prescription is not getting submitted, lab
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shouting up and reports are not getting uploaded, me fixing
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it in real time.
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So I joke.
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Around that I've done everything in the healthcare startup other
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than picking out blood using a sydance, because I'll think otherwise.
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I've sat on the bike with the sample collective pharmacist
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and gone to the patient's so to test our application,
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sitting with medical representatives and given demos to doctors of
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our software, me being the only one in shorts and
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them being very well dressed. So that was the you
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can say, foundation laying experience for my tech building product building.
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That's again I mean a lot of life stories there
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and lessons you've learned for what you are today, and
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I'll serve you for life. So let's probably do a
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little bit of fast forward, if you will. So you
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started you you came out of college an electronics engineer,
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tried your first hand that you know, the marketing technology company,
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so on and.
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So forth, and then you did this gig. I mean,
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how did the whole developer ecosystem open up for you?
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Where was your first hand experience with dealing with developers
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and kind of a stepping stone, if you will, for
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what you are working on today.
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Okay, another story, if I may, sure, This is so
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while in my first startup job that the company is
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still there. It's called Sculpubric Healthcare. I used to so
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it was a.
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Super specialty center with seven eight.
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Cabins, and I used to sit next to a doctor's
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cabin in another doctor's gibin until that doctor arrived in
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the evening and.
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Code all day. So the only sources.
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To validate what I was building was going onto YouTube,
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going on to Medium, or reading something online.
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So we had interns.
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For a short while and they were once talking about
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some event is coming up and them being interns. I
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was able to take that favor. Can I attend? And
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the name was Google Developer Groups? So Google was interesting, right,
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And two like one weekend later, I was there picking
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them up, going to the venue and seeing that my
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interns standing on the stage at a coworking space and
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teaching a set of eighty people who included students, professionals.
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One CTO was also there.
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There were tech leatues, there were senior developers, and it
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was a technology called Firebase.
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It had just come out by Google. Right. I was amazed.
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Free education plus free food, and I could just hop
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around and ask people that what are you building?
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I'm working on this? Is this the right way?
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If the technology met So that is where it started
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that this kind of an open learning ecosystem exists, And
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that is where GDG as a journey started for me.
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I started attending regularly, whether the technology was of my
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domain or not, just to the network with people and
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just to know what all is going on so that tomorrow,
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if I get to a point wherein I want to
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use it, at least it doesn't have to be a
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problem of I don't know what I don't know. So
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then from there a year and a half later, one
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of the organizers of the community was moving out. I
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got a chance to step in. Basically they invited me
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because I was very regular giving talks and all different events.
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And from there, you know, that is where you can
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say the seed for communal was soon because it was
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an open playground whereas you could not fail, you could
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just experiment and learn from different people. Fortunately, I got
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invited to google Io twice by Google, wherein I also
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got a chance to deliver a talk at IO in
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twenty nineteen, representing India and talking about how to build
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scalable communities.
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Yes, community since then has been a very very.
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Core part because it is my you can say, window
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of our fresh air and fresh technology. What is happening
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without any sort of just like in a classroom set up,
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there is things like you know you'll fail if you
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do not learn this, or if you do not pass
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the exam. Community there is nothing like that. You want
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you learn, you don't want your network, and if you
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don't even want that, you don't go there.
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So yeah, yeah, great, I mean I can draw a
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lot of parallels to what you said, Lupen, because as
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I told you, I got kind of thrown in into
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the whole Flutter community myself, right, I mean at that time,
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when I started off with Flutter and Dart, I mean
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I'm not a technologist by any stretch of imagination.
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I mean I started off as an engineer myself.
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I used to code in dot net back in the day,
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but again I realized quickly that coding was never my
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cup of tea. So that's why I moved on to
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the business and management side of things. But I mean
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the whole engineering aspect of it and the developer aspect
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of it has always stayed with me because I've been
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in the technology and consulting industry for a long time.
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So long story shot, when I started off in Flutter,
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I mean all the developers actually would say, oh, Firebase
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is my database, you know, That's how they would start off.
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I mean, in a way, it kind of came along
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at the same time, if you will. So even today
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in the communities that we run in the Bay Area,
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there's a lot of times where we combine Flutter and
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Firebase into one meetup, if you will, right, I mean,
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especially with the new AI offerings that Firebase and you know,
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I forget what it's called. I think it's called fire
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base studio. If I'm not wrong with fire based studio,
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I mean you can almost know. It's almost like vibe
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coding if you will right, I mean, you give a prompt,
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it gives you the ass. So it's come a long way.
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But to your point, I mean, you know, I've met
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a lot of friends and people whom I have business
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relationships with today just by the community aspect of it.
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I mean, and I would say it's not just in
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the in the Bay Area locally, I mean you wouldn't imagine.
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I mean across the world. If I travel for work,
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I will invariably be coughing having coffee or dinner with
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somebody from the flood of community that I've met, So
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that network has gone so vague. And I always talk
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about the power of community, you know, I mean, even
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if a friend of ours comes in, you can always
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lean on somebody from the community to help a friend
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of your friend or somebody will.
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Be there to help you out, you know, absolutely.
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So that's when when I saw communal I was it
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was super interesting to see what you're trying to do
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to enable the community more, you know, how to kind
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of take some of the pain points that.
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Communities do have and how are you alleviating that.
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Maybe we'll talk about that a little bit, but maybe
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before we get there, talk a little bit about Okay,
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what is the goal of communal when you started? Obviously,
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you know with any product, it evolves over time. I'm
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sure it has evolved over time for you as well.
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So from where where where you are to where you
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are today, and maybe we'll talk about a peak into
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the future as well, maybe there's the time to showcase
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communal if you.
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Are thank you, thank you So today communal serves as
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an ecosystem building platform for any company which is into
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debl tools. So if I were to cite the problem,
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what happens is, in general, if you look at communities,
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they can be solved or managed using if it's not
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a very large community, using WhatsApp groups or WhatsApp communities,
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and probably a payment gateway. In case there is any
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sort of a paid exchange. With developer communities, it is
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totally different. There is a learning path, there is a
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life cycle of a member, and it's not mostly a
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one time engagement. So what happens is that it might
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start with one type of an engagement. For example, you
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can start with an event. Soon the need grows up
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to okay, I want to publish some content as well,
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or I want some real time communication with.
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My members to be able to chat.
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It translates into hackathons, maybe some sort of competitions. You
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might engage with some companies or for building or doing
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a sprint, and this kind of circle you pick whichever
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point it keeps on continue. Now, a Devril team or
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any community manager is constantly hopping to platforms for every
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new engagement. It might start from meetup, dot com, it
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might start from any event platform we started from Meetup,
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and then at the end of it, either there's a
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lot of Excel sheets or there's a lot of dashboards
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which are getting data from that API or scraping it,
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and you're losing a lot of insights. For example, if
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I were to ask in your community platform how many
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people are professionals and students or how many people are
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interested into Flutter and Python as well, would be kind
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of impossible to find out what communal does is Instead
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of Devil team or community manager or you Anthony thinking about,
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you know, I want to do this activity, which platform
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should I tie up with or explore? You get all
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those experiences together, so that becomes your central identity for
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the community without you having to ever think about and
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this platform keeps on growing with your needs as well
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because it is focused only on developer communities. On the
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other hand, one thing which no other platform might think
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about right now probably focusing on is the individual developers.
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We're not focusing only on making things or life easy
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of the Devil team or developer relations folks. We are
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also thinking about how can this individual upun who is
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participating into Anthony's community and GDGS and a lot of
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other communities make the best use of learnings and also
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showcase them through his or her profile. So that is
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where people find their identity on communal. Individual identity on
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communal also important, a very you can say still a
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little bit blurry. Long term vision is if those many
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developers can be on the platform, probably anything technology related
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in the world.
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Can be built much faster and easier.
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So that is what to the core excites me, the
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kind of things that can be built when all these
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people are there. USP is definitely the focus on developer communities.
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We are one hundred percent tech community platform. And the
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second part is basically we because of that focus. We
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are able to build all sorts of engagement so that
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these communities need. And we are technology agnostics, so you
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don't as an individual. You might be using flutter also,
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and as you mentioned in the past, dot net or
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any other technology, you're not limited to one company or
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one brand. This is where a common ecosystem comes into place.
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Sorry if I've been too long on that.
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No, No, that's that's perfect. I mean we can in
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fact double click on it. I mean the way I
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imagine it. I mean, and I might be simplifying it
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too much, right, Just some light bulbs went off as
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you were speaking. I mean, I think what you've done,
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at least so far, and I'll be honest, I've not
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spent too much time on communal signing up or anything,
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but I mean you've taken the best of best of
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the world of say, some of the features of what
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a GitHub might provide, plus say what a meetup, and
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kind of mix the drawbacks of some of those as well,
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and it all in one place for the developer ecosystem,
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if you will. I mean, and it works both both sides, right,
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I mean, it works for the developer, the growth of
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the community, are the company that is trying to grow
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that community as well.
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So it's a win when all across is how I see.
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It doesn't make sense?
413
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So one of the things that I think I told
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you I used to have on my community on Discord, right.
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I mean so in Discord because it will primarily started
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off as a gaming community. It was primarily built for gaming.
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But a lot of developer communities go in. I mean,
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you wouldn't know who is the real person behind those identities,
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you know, for for a long time. I mean, somebody
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will have a random you know, commet name and communicate
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as so that they are the most brilliant developer on
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the planet. Right, and in the world of bots that
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we live in today, I mean, there could be any
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any number of people impersonating as a human developer if
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you will.
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I mean, is that the challenge your face today? How
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do you kind of overcome that?
429
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So that's the thing.
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It is not just online engagements that a communal is
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a part of. Right, If you and I met at
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an event, Let's say, you know, my profile was a
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pod profile or LinkedIn which messaged you for that favor
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that I asked for.
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You would never know.
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But if we would have met at an event, communal
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would be telling you that you.
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And Anthony have been a part of the same event.
439
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So that kind of for if you joined the community,
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I joined the community, we would each be able to
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see that social tech validation of what we both are doing.
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That will make it easier to identify the right set
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of people. So one thing is that if you are
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into and since you are into the community ecosystem, you
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have an idea of the valids, the authenticated and the
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ones who might not be that skilled or are starting up.
447
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So that is where the actual commune unity inputs come
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up into communal. For example, as you mentioned discord, if
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I remember a startup having grown by throwing away a
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lot of free T shirts, growing their community to around
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a million, and when we went to the discord channel,
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less than twenty people were active in general. So one
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of the folks who was managing was discussing this that
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now when we do that activity, So I was like,
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can you can you give me some data around who
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is who in terms of describing some demographics, which part
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of the country, world experience level, career status and everything.
458
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No, nothing here.
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Clearly you see who is visiting your community more, second,
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who is who and if they have not updated their profile,
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they automatically become less important to you because you do
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not know them. And yes, as you said, we do
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get a decent amount of spam. So for which I
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asked AI, I was just brainstorming with chat, GPT, Gemini
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and others. Should I use your apike and just send
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over the data and you will return the response in
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a specified format using Bland graft line chain. The answer
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was AI will be an overkill by AI. So then
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we deployed a machine learning model which was able to
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detect it. Yes, but but that spam turned out to
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be good upgrade to our security and safety for users.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I mean you can look at it two ways, right,
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I mean how do you take it head on or
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how do you brush it aside, ignore it and you
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know a later point of time, I mean it brings
477
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down your downfall, right, So absolutely you can. You can
478
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approach it either way, which are the way you like?
479
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So one of the things I wanted to ask you
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about in terms of so we spoke about how you
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got here? Where have you seen the most full from
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for community? I mean, who is using it? What is
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a really slammed downkey use case if you will for
484
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using it. I mean I did see on the website
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that I mean you Obviously enterprises can use it, right,
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small developer communities can use it, and folks can use
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it as well. Can you give us some examples of
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you know, folks who I mean. I'm not asking you
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to name customers or anything. I mean, typically, who is
490
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:14.880
the chief buyer for a product like communital Does it
491
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:19.160
come from the CPO organization or the chief product officer
492
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.119
who usually procures it up?
493
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.480
Okay, so let me scale this up.
494
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.240
Any company which is building tools for developers is the
495
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:31.000
target customer because def tools and communities I think are
496
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:34.160
necessaries for each other. Now, in case of a startup,
497
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:38.680
how small or even up till mid size startups, there
498
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.720
would mostly be I would say, kind of a community
499
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:46.319
manager and there's not a lot of deverrel established there
500
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:51.119
and it directly comes under the CMO. So that particular company,
501
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:53.599
probably the CMO is the right person.
502
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:54.440
Makes sense.
503
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.920
Look at it from the perspective of an enterprise. They
504
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:02.759
would have a head of development programs more than relationship
505
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:06.279
is the programs, So that person is the right one
506
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:11.240
whom we reach out to and talk as usual initial stages.
507
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.400
I used to talk only features feature features. Now we
508
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:16.279
try to understand their problem better and that is serving
509
00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:19.880
us well. And the platform has also evolved over three
510
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:20.799
years now perfect.
511
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.720
So a couple more segments I want to get into.
512
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.759
So I want to go back and talk about Arpen,
513
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.559
the founder and the guy who's running the show here, right,
514
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:35.039
I mean, what do you take in or who inspires
515
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.119
you to do these things up? And I mean do
516
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.160
you have a role model in your life? I know
517
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.640
your parents put you on the right track from the
518
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.599
childhood days, but I mean, you know, coming out of
519
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.079
as an engineer is one thing. Running a company is
520
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.960
a totally different ballgame, right. I mean, engineering does not
521
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.640
teach all the skills to do this, right, So whom
522
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.319
do you rely on during your dull days and your
523
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.480
rough days for motivation and what keeps you going as
524
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:04.440
a founder and CEO?
525
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:08.240
So okay, one thing that I discuss, and I like,
526
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:12.559
everyone has advisors for my company and then some life
527
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.880
mentors in front of whom I talk out everything, literally
528
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.200
everything whatever is at the back of my head.
529
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.720
Sometimes, you know, the thing that is said is being
530
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:23.240
a founder.
531
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:27.039
Lowers are lower every time you encounter something because you're growing,
532
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:30.640
so when some roadblock occurs, it is even bigger than
533
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:31.240
the last time.
534
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:32.160
So that is there.
535
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.599
But I'm very fortunate to have my advisors also, who
536
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.240
you know, I've had those days wherein initially I used
537
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.359
to talk to them that am I getting paranoid?
538
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:42.720
Am I the only one who is excited about it?
539
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.400
The answer was you should be at least the only
540
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.240
one who is excited about it, And for paranoid thing,
541
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.759
they are very straightforward about things that you know, why
542
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.319
are you doing this? How can you get this done
543
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.039
in one month instead of six months? Second is if
544
00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:00.720
I used to ever talk about can or should I
545
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.200
get a part time job or something to get that
546
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.920
cash flow initially into my company. That is the easy
547
00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:08.839
part of tell me, if you shut this down, will
548
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.319
you be able to live with the fact or an
549
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.880
unanswered question in your head that I don't know where
550
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:16.160
I would have been able to take it right? So
551
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.519
all those things. But yes, there is a segregation of
552
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.680
a personal support system and a professional support system. There
553
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.160
are a couple of people who overlap, but I am
554
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.039
really grateful to them. They have shaped a lot of
555
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:33.160
the part of my journey professionally personally and been here
556
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.960
of who I am today. And you know, one of
557
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.000
them said that urban, why are you feeling down? You
558
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.559
know this time that I am sitting with you over dinner,
559
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:45.240
people kill for it, so you should feel good about it.
560
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.559
So okay, that immediately elevated my mood. So, yes, all
561
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:53.400
sorts of conversations happened. But yes, that support system is there.
562
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:53.920
Awesome.
563
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:58.839
I'm very glad that you can lean on somebody during
564
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:00.079
both the good time.
565
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:00.839
Of the bad times.
566
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:07.200
Right, that's absolutely important for the founders. So what's the
567
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.599
future looking like? But what should people be excited for
568
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:11.839
with the communal?
569
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:12.480
What's coming?
570
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:17.960
So Communal is transforming into a lot more insights that
571
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.640
have been getting collected onto the platform, some things which
572
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:25.559
we built initially but we didn't use them utilize them
573
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:27.640
in terms of how.
574
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.720
Your community is growing.
575
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.400
That kind of insights is getting collected and with AI,
576
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.920
I'm pretty sure it will be more understandable and more
577
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.359
readable if anyone is trying to use it, not only
578
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.039
on a personal level, but more importantly on a company level,
579
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:43.359
they will be able to get to know what is
580
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.359
the direction of the ecosystem from the people who have
581
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.079
joined their communities, because that is what drives their product. Actually,
582
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:54.680
if I'm building an X direction and my community is
583
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:58.720
wanting to learn why or build on why, then probably
584
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:02.240
I should just different route because people are not interested
585
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.400
that is what we are trying to get towards.
586
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.759
That's beautiful because I can tell you, I mean it's
587
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:08.880
a real life example.
588
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:10.680
I mean, I mentioned discord earlier.
589
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.359
We would have a lot of people who just come
590
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:16.759
and hang out in our community just look at what
591
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:20.079
other people are talking, without even opening their mouth on
592
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:24.119
what they're really there for, you know, And after three
593
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.799
months of just dormancy, no word whatsoever, they might put
594
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.640
a message, Hey, I've been tracking this and I have this.
595
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.319
Idea to build this app. Would you be able to help?
596
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.440
And I mean, and to my point earlier, and they would.
597
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.119
Have had some fancy nickname and you wouldn't know who
598
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.440
they are. And in some cases I've come to find out,
599
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:45.599
I mean, they are a CTO of a company just
600
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.519
waiting to see if they get the right answer through
601
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.839
the community. I mean, and if you know them in
602
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.559
a better way through a product like community.
603
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:55.559
I mean, it's a win win for everybody.
604
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:58.240
You know, So I'm so glad that you guys are
605
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.440
doing that and the insights spot that you mentioned that
606
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:03.559
as well. I mean, you know, it is very important
607
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.720
for the buyers that you said, right, whether it's a
608
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:11.480
CMO or the developer programs leaders in all these enterprises.
609
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.960
I mean, that's what drives their decision and next steps
610
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.720
as well, right. I mean, if they understand, hey, this
611
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.440
is where we're going wrong. This campaign is working well
612
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:24.880
versus that campaign is not working well, whether it's just
613
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.400
throwing our T shirts or something else, you know, at
614
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.880
least they need to know that is causing the spike
615
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:32.680
or the lull and when the developers are coming in
616
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:35.400
so great that you guys are doing that. So all
617
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.839
the best to you and the team. RPEN, thanks so
618
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:42.000
much for sharing your journey. I loved all your stories.
619
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.559
I'm thankful that you were able to share all those
620
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:46.559
anecdotes with us.
621
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:48.119
I mean, it always makes it interesting.
622
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.640
I mean, the life is all about that, so I'm
623
00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:52.119
glad you were open to sharing that.
624
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:54.480
Wish you and the team the very best In commut.
625
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.039
I'll be sure to check it out and I'm already
626
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.880
thinking of a few people whom I can introduce communal too,
627
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.240
so I'll speak to your offline about it.
628
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:04.160
So good luck to you and the team.
629
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.039
Thank you, thank you so much, Anthony and I am
630
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.759
excited to be the first podcast of the year. So
631
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.920
a very happy newyear to all the listeners and viewers
632
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.880
and obviously to you, and really grateful for the opportunity.
633
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.400
It has been a lovely discussion.
634
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:20.640
Thanks so much. Have a great rest of the weekend.
635
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:31.279
Bye, thank you, Bye,
1
00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:03.879
This is the Startup Still Say podcast. Thank you for
2
00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:07.320
tuning in. Do us a favor like subscribe on YouTube
3
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:09.640
or LinkedIn, and be sure to give us your feedback.
4
00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:11.599
Hope you enjoyed this episode.
5
00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.800
Hello everyone, welcome to a brand new episode of Startups.
6
00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:17.440
They'll say Happy new year to all of you. This
7
00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.640
is our first episode in twenty twenty six, and I'm
8
00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:24.600
super excited to have Arpen Gard from the New Delhi
9
00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:29.199
area in India, the founder and the leader of Communal,
10
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:33.200
joining us today. I've been a big part of the
11
00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:37.520
open source community and communities in general over the career,
12
00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:41.520
so when I saw Communal and what Arpan's trying to do,
13
00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:45.719
I definitely piqued my interest. So I looked it up
14
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:49.159
and seeing what he and his team are doing. Plus
15
00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.240
the fact that Arpen and I, I mean coincidentally just
16
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.960
exchanged notes over LinkedIn for one of his needs and
17
00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:57.719
I was like, you know what, Arpun should come on
18
00:00:57.759 --> 00:00:59.280
the show, and I reached.
19
00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.159
Out and Arpen readily agree. It's Sharpen. Without further adio,
20
00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:03.079
welcome to the show.
21
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.760
Thank you, Thank you, Anthony, and it's good to finally
22
00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:09.040
meet face to face, probably some day soon in person.
23
00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:09.480
As well.
24
00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:14.079
Yes, but yes, just went through the podcasts and everything
25
00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.439
that you've been doing. The audio part which you mentioned
26
00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:21.079
is consumed more is you know, super interesting that the
27
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:24.359
way it is picking up and thank you for inviting
28
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:26.000
me over measure.
29
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.719
So you have a super cool platform going. But before
30
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.239
we get to communal itself, let's talk a little bit
31
00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:34.680
about yourself, harp and tell about tell the audience a
32
00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.920
little bit about who you are, what brought you to communal,
33
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.319
and maybe a little bit of a live story if
34
00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:40.640
you will.
35
00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:44.519
Sure, sure, So, I mean, if I were to say
36
00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:47.959
it's all been around building things from from d one.
37
00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:51.040
When I was a kid, and I'll just get back
38
00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:54.239
into a little bit of nostalgia. We were not allowed
39
00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:58.239
to watch cartoons during our school time or anything.
40
00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:01.359
There was you know, fear that that will get scolded.
41
00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.920
So there was no cartoon channel, and there were I
42
00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:06.959
guess maybe eleven or twelve channels on that you know
43
00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.919
cro type TV. We were made to watch Discovery, Discovery
44
00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:13.520
and Discovery Kids. So I still remember watching with my
45
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:18.280
father a particular show called Extreme Machines, wherein they used
46
00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:22.240
to break down into how those you know, cars or
47
00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.319
different technology was built, how is it used to get developed.
48
00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:28.759
And that is I would say, at the core foundation
49
00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:33.520
of how I am able to think or come up
50
00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:38.240
with ideas or am always always still you know, been
51
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:42.520
ten years into technology, but every time a new phone
52
00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:45.080
or any new gadget comes up, I'm equally excited to
53
00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.400
you know, equo it. So that that is probably where
54
00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:54.080
it started. Then during school had almost up till class twelfth.
55
00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:57.199
Every time there was a science fair in school, I
56
00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.280
used to have a stall no matter what, right from
57
00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.080
an automatic automatic stapler wherein you slide the paper its
58
00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:08.159
staples to something like that flower pot that you used
59
00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:12.159
to see that you put the stick into two colored
60
00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.520
waters and the flower used to have two half colors,
61
00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:17.319
to a lot of other projects that were there. And
62
00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:22.080
this journey continued even translating into my college, wherein I
63
00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.919
had seen this problem that a whole village sit has
64
00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:29.520
motorcycles at sec engines and there were five or seven
65
00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:33.000
people sitting, the whole family sitting on that hundred sec engine,
66
00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:35.599
and I thought, why can't we translate this into a
67
00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:38.360
four wheeler. And that was a project that we built.
68
00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:40.240
We drove to the college. It was a three fueld
69
00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:42.520
hybrid car. So there are there are a number of
70
00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.360
good and bad and really bad examples which I followed
71
00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:49.280
through in terms of building and alongside you know, came
72
00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:52.879
in a number of startups that I have worked with
73
00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:55.960
some great people and today yes, here I am trying
74
00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:57.120
to build one of my own.
75
00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.759
Awesome that is an awesome backstory.
76
00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:04.400
I would have never guessed that extreme engineering or extreme machines.
77
00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:07.840
As they call it on Discovery fueled who you are.
78
00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:12.400
I will always remember you when I see another episode
79
00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.120
of that again. I mean I used to follow it
80
00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.480
growing up as well. I mean, especially the episodes on
81
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.439
you know how they do aircraft engines or building bridges
82
00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:26.800
or you know, skyscrapers and all of that. Absolutely so amazing, great,
83
00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:29.720
great story, I mean, and that's why parents always want
84
00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:31.639
to sow the seeds when the kids are young. Right,
85
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.160
So now you're thankful to your parents as well, absolutely yeah,
86
00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:38.560
so as your dad. Are your parents proud of you
87
00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:41.279
for showing your discovery and nothing else Back in the day,
88
00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:42.319
I think you.
89
00:04:42.279 --> 00:04:44.839
Know, if you if you've seen three dates, there was
90
00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:46.879
a certain period of time wherein I was that kid
91
00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.800
who used to just pick up the screw driver and
92
00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:51.839
open up anything, so especially during that period, they wouldn't
93
00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.000
have been, but I hope they are right now.
94
00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:54.279
Ye.
95
00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:57.720
Fascinating story, so thanks, thanks so much for sharing that.
96
00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:04.560
That's that's a really really nice nostalgia. As you said, right,
97
00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:08.680
looking back at your career from where you are, Let's
98
00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:10.879
start with you know you're coming out of school in
99
00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:15.600
college almost ten fifteen years ago, right, so obviously you
100
00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.399
have this passion and in a way in your blood
101
00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:21.800
saying hey, I want to build things. I want to
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go after you know, new things to solve world problems
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or you know, common problems out there. We always have
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a choice, right, I mean now, coming out of college
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in India, you're always given like two three choices. You
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either become an engineer or you become a get into
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software or I don't know what engineering.
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Or which course you did.
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And you also, I mean at least back when I
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was coming out of college, I mean you either had
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it or you know, you had something else.
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You know, most of the kids chose it and moved on.
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So nowadays, I mean, at least with the way the
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startup world is and you know how the small businesses
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in India the scene is very different. So did you
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tell yourself saying, hey, I don't want to work for
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a corporate I want to be in the small business
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or the startup world. I mean, how did what was
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your thinking, especially with the sort of DNA and the wiring.
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That you were brought up with, What is your thinking
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coming out of college?
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So I would say that I didn't have much of
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a choice.
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One thing was clear that I wanted to do engineering,
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and I picked up electronics because I wanted to get
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into robotics. The college being in a Tier two, Tier
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three city, we.
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Didn't even get the r of it.
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But yes, one small thing that I was able to
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do was find the shop which supplied those parts to
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the college's lab. I used to buy it from there
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and assemble my own circuits and test it out in
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the college, all those things. So that was more interesting.
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But what happened was, and I was academically doing very
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well in the college. I was only studying one of
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those per Haku students and everything because I just found
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it interesting that, you know, how much more can I
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grasp until I reach and max out? So just out
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of college, I was like, okay, I've talked, I've ranked
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one across all branches so companies will be running after
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me without considering the college. So that didn't happen a
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lot and a lot of rejections.
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I used to just measure the.
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Length of the metro Deli metro going from company to company,
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good places, shady places, giving interviews and getting highest marks,
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but getting rejected because of the branch, or just getting
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rejected because of the branch, or maybe you know, not
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getting an interview, because mostly the roles were into programming
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and not electronics. So I got my first job, fortunately
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at the digital marketing company, which used to manage the
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online reputation of a lot of brands. So the brands
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I used to handle was w FO Woman or MTV
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exit HarperCollins, So these brands were the ones I was
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having a lot of fun in terms of generating ideas.
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There was absolutely no scope of failing because you were
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expert menting with creative ideas into marketing to what would work.
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We used to trend on Twitter and everything, and they
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were kind enough to give me a lot of ownership.
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But at the end of six months, when my probation
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completed five and a half or six months, I had
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the option to continue or to do something else. This
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is where I took a step back because I was
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spending around four to five hours daily in the metro
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traveling from one end to the other. And what I
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had been going through at the back of my head
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was I was taking someone's platform, in someone's product, and
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creating that marketing strategy. I was enjoying it, but I
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had a calling that I wanted to be on either
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side of building things, building from scratch.
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Or maybe growing something existing.
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And that is where I decided to redive into programming. Somehow,
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computers came easy to me, so that is why I
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was not interested to take it up as a branch
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in college. I was like, you know, this is something
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I'll do on the side or something. So that is
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where the journey started. I took up programming again, got
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into my first job, which was initially an unpaid internship
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for a month. That too, I got because no one
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else raised hands in the class where I was learning
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coding when the project was being handed over. So then
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the next day, after a month, they offered me an internship.
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The next day itself, they offered me a full time job.
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And I was balancing between going to the US because
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I had my gi scores or anything. But then I thought,
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you know, those two years of MS versus two years
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of building something from scratch, Let's take this chance. And
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I would say that is where the journey started. And
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that first job taught me a lot because I was
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directly thrown amongst sharks, people from at the director level
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of Amazon, Facebook and doctors from AMES in Delhi, and
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me being the sole developer. So sitting at the reception
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teaching reception is how to use it, what I was
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building while using it and building it myself, and the
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doctor shouting that UPE prescription is not getting submitted, lab
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shouting up and reports are not getting uploaded, me fixing
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it in real time.
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So I joke.
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Around that I've done everything in the healthcare startup other
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than picking out blood using a sydance, because I'll think otherwise.
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I've sat on the bike with the sample collective pharmacist
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and gone to the patient's so to test our application,
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sitting with medical representatives and given demos to doctors of
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our software, me being the only one in shorts and
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them being very well dressed. So that was the you
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can say, foundation laying experience for my tech building product building.
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That's again I mean a lot of life stories there
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and lessons you've learned for what you are today, and
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I'll serve you for life. So let's probably do a
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little bit of fast forward, if you will. So you
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started you you came out of college an electronics engineer,
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tried your first hand that you know, the marketing technology company,
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so on and.
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So forth, and then you did this gig. I mean,
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how did the whole developer ecosystem open up for you?
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Where was your first hand experience with dealing with developers
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and kind of a stepping stone, if you will, for
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what you are working on today.
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Okay, another story, if I may, sure, This is so
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while in my first startup job that the company is
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still there. It's called Sculpubric Healthcare. I used to so
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it was a.
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Super specialty center with seven eight.
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Cabins, and I used to sit next to a doctor's
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cabin in another doctor's gibin until that doctor arrived in
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the evening and.
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Code all day. So the only sources.
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To validate what I was building was going onto YouTube,
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going on to Medium, or reading something online.
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So we had interns.
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For a short while and they were once talking about
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some event is coming up and them being interns. I
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was able to take that favor. Can I attend? And
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the name was Google Developer Groups? So Google was interesting, right,
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And two like one weekend later, I was there picking
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them up, going to the venue and seeing that my
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interns standing on the stage at a coworking space and
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teaching a set of eighty people who included students, professionals.
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One CTO was also there.
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There were tech leatues, there were senior developers, and it
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was a technology called Firebase.
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It had just come out by Google. Right. I was amazed.
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Free education plus free food, and I could just hop
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around and ask people that what are you building?
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I'm working on this? Is this the right way?
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If the technology met So that is where it started
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that this kind of an open learning ecosystem exists, And
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that is where GDG as a journey started for me.
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I started attending regularly, whether the technology was of my
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domain or not, just to the network with people and
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just to know what all is going on so that tomorrow,
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if I get to a point wherein I want to
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use it, at least it doesn't have to be a
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problem of I don't know what I don't know. So
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then from there a year and a half later, one
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of the organizers of the community was moving out. I
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got a chance to step in. Basically they invited me
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because I was very regular giving talks and all different events.
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And from there, you know, that is where you can
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say the seed for communal was soon because it was
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an open playground whereas you could not fail, you could
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just experiment and learn from different people. Fortunately, I got
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invited to google Io twice by Google, wherein I also
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got a chance to deliver a talk at IO in
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twenty nineteen, representing India and talking about how to build
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scalable communities.
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Yes, community since then has been a very very.
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Core part because it is my you can say, window
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of our fresh air and fresh technology. What is happening
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without any sort of just like in a classroom set up,
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there is things like you know you'll fail if you
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do not learn this, or if you do not pass
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the exam. Community there is nothing like that. You want
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you learn, you don't want your network, and if you
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don't even want that, you don't go there.
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So yeah, yeah, great, I mean I can draw a
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lot of parallels to what you said, Lupen, because as
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I told you, I got kind of thrown in into
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the whole Flutter community myself, right, I mean at that time,
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when I started off with Flutter and Dart, I mean
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I'm not a technologist by any stretch of imagination.
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I mean I started off as an engineer myself.
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I used to code in dot net back in the day,
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but again I realized quickly that coding was never my
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cup of tea. So that's why I moved on to
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the business and management side of things. But I mean
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the whole engineering aspect of it and the developer aspect
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of it has always stayed with me because I've been
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in the technology and consulting industry for a long time.
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So long story shot, when I started off in Flutter,
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I mean all the developers actually would say, oh, Firebase
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is my database, you know, That's how they would start off.
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I mean, in a way, it kind of came along
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at the same time, if you will. So even today
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in the communities that we run in the Bay Area,
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there's a lot of times where we combine Flutter and
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Firebase into one meetup, if you will, right, I mean,
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especially with the new AI offerings that Firebase and you know,
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I forget what it's called. I think it's called fire
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base studio. If I'm not wrong with fire based studio,
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I mean you can almost know. It's almost like vibe
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coding if you will right, I mean, you give a prompt,
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it gives you the ass. So it's come a long way.
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But to your point, I mean, you know, I've met
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a lot of friends and people whom I have business
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relationships with today just by the community aspect of it.
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I mean, and I would say it's not just in
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the in the Bay Area locally, I mean you wouldn't imagine.
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I mean across the world. If I travel for work,
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I will invariably be coughing having coffee or dinner with
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somebody from the flood of community that I've met, So
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that network has gone so vague. And I always talk
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about the power of community, you know, I mean, even
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if a friend of ours comes in, you can always
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lean on somebody from the community to help a friend
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of your friend or somebody will.
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Be there to help you out, you know, absolutely.
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So that's when when I saw communal I was it
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was super interesting to see what you're trying to do
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to enable the community more, you know, how to kind
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of take some of the pain points that.
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Communities do have and how are you alleviating that.
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Maybe we'll talk about that a little bit, but maybe
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before we get there, talk a little bit about Okay,
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what is the goal of communal when you started? Obviously,
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you know with any product, it evolves over time. I'm
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sure it has evolved over time for you as well.
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So from where where where you are to where you
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are today, and maybe we'll talk about a peak into
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the future as well, maybe there's the time to showcase
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communal if you.
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Are thank you, thank you So today communal serves as
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an ecosystem building platform for any company which is into
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debl tools. So if I were to cite the problem,
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what happens is, in general, if you look at communities,
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they can be solved or managed using if it's not
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a very large community, using WhatsApp groups or WhatsApp communities,
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and probably a payment gateway. In case there is any
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sort of a paid exchange. With developer communities, it is
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totally different. There is a learning path, there is a
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life cycle of a member, and it's not mostly a
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one time engagement. So what happens is that it might
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start with one type of an engagement. For example, you
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can start with an event. Soon the need grows up
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to okay, I want to publish some content as well,
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or I want some real time communication with.
346
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:40.960
My members to be able to chat.
347
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.599
It translates into hackathons, maybe some sort of competitions. You
348
00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:48.640
might engage with some companies or for building or doing
349
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.680
a sprint, and this kind of circle you pick whichever
350
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.680
point it keeps on continue. Now, a Devril team or
351
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.839
any community manager is constantly hopping to platforms for every
352
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.519
new engagement. It might start from meetup, dot com, it
353
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.000
might start from any event platform we started from Meetup,
354
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.119
and then at the end of it, either there's a
355
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.000
lot of Excel sheets or there's a lot of dashboards
356
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:17.799
which are getting data from that API or scraping it,
357
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.319
and you're losing a lot of insights. For example, if
358
00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:23.519
I were to ask in your community platform how many
359
00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:26.279
people are professionals and students or how many people are
360
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.720
interested into Flutter and Python as well, would be kind
361
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.279
of impossible to find out what communal does is Instead
362
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.000
of Devil team or community manager or you Anthony thinking about,
363
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.400
you know, I want to do this activity, which platform
364
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:43.039
should I tie up with or explore? You get all
365
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.519
those experiences together, so that becomes your central identity for
366
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.759
the community without you having to ever think about and
367
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.440
this platform keeps on growing with your needs as well
368
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:55.240
because it is focused only on developer communities. On the
369
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.920
other hand, one thing which no other platform might think
370
00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:02.880
about right now probably focusing on is the individual developers.
371
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.440
We're not focusing only on making things or life easy
372
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.640
of the Devil team or developer relations folks. We are
373
00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.720
also thinking about how can this individual upun who is
374
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.400
participating into Anthony's community and GDGS and a lot of
375
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:22.279
other communities make the best use of learnings and also
376
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.759
showcase them through his or her profile. So that is
377
00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:30.359
where people find their identity on communal. Individual identity on
378
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:35.039
communal also important, a very you can say still a
379
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:38.839
little bit blurry. Long term vision is if those many
380
00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:44.279
developers can be on the platform, probably anything technology related
381
00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:45.160
in the world.
382
00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:47.359
Can be built much faster and easier.
383
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.440
So that is what to the core excites me, the
384
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.960
kind of things that can be built when all these
385
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:57.839
people are there. USP is definitely the focus on developer communities.
386
00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.359
We are one hundred percent tech community platform. And the
387
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.200
second part is basically we because of that focus. We
388
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:08.839
are able to build all sorts of engagement so that
389
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.000
these communities need. And we are technology agnostics, so you
390
00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:14.319
don't as an individual. You might be using flutter also,
391
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:17.519
and as you mentioned in the past, dot net or
392
00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:20.559
any other technology, you're not limited to one company or
393
00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:24.119
one brand. This is where a common ecosystem comes into place.
394
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.720
Sorry if I've been too long on that.
395
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.200
No, No, that's that's perfect. I mean we can in
396
00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:30.079
fact double click on it. I mean the way I
397
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:33.119
imagine it. I mean, and I might be simplifying it
398
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:36.359
too much, right, Just some light bulbs went off as
399
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:40.079
you were speaking. I mean, I think what you've done,
400
00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:42.599
at least so far, and I'll be honest, I've not
401
00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.880
spent too much time on communal signing up or anything,
402
00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.759
but I mean you've taken the best of best of
403
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.799
the world of say, some of the features of what
404
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.799
a GitHub might provide, plus say what a meetup, and
405
00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:59.359
kind of mix the drawbacks of some of those as well,
406
00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.559
and it all in one place for the developer ecosystem,
407
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:06.720
if you will. I mean, and it works both both sides, right,
408
00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:09.160
I mean, it works for the developer, the growth of
409
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.880
the community, are the company that is trying to grow
410
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.119
that community as well.
411
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.200
So it's a win when all across is how I see.
412
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.400
It doesn't make sense?
413
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.720
Yeah, absolutely.
414
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.079
So one of the things that I think I told
415
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.839
you I used to have on my community on Discord, right.
416
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.279
I mean so in Discord because it will primarily started
417
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:32.240
off as a gaming community. It was primarily built for gaming.
418
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:35.000
But a lot of developer communities go in. I mean,
419
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:39.039
you wouldn't know who is the real person behind those identities,
420
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.519
you know, for for a long time. I mean, somebody
421
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:46.440
will have a random you know, commet name and communicate
422
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.559
as so that they are the most brilliant developer on
423
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:52.480
the planet. Right, and in the world of bots that
424
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:55.039
we live in today, I mean, there could be any
425
00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:58.640
any number of people impersonating as a human developer if
426
00:21:58.680 --> 00:21:58.960
you will.
427
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.599
I mean, is that the challenge your face today? How
428
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:04.920
do you kind of overcome that?
429
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:05.960
So that's the thing.
430
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.359
It is not just online engagements that a communal is
431
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.319
a part of. Right, If you and I met at
432
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:15.960
an event, Let's say, you know, my profile was a
433
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:19.319
pod profile or LinkedIn which messaged you for that favor
434
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:20.480
that I asked for.
435
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:21.400
You would never know.
436
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.000
But if we would have met at an event, communal
437
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:25.359
would be telling you that you.
438
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:27.359
And Anthony have been a part of the same event.
439
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.480
So that kind of for if you joined the community,
440
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.119
I joined the community, we would each be able to
441
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.240
see that social tech validation of what we both are doing.
442
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.039
That will make it easier to identify the right set
443
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.799
of people. So one thing is that if you are
444
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:46.799
into and since you are into the community ecosystem, you
445
00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:52.640
have an idea of the valids, the authenticated and the
446
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.599
ones who might not be that skilled or are starting up.
447
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:01.960
So that is where the actual commune unity inputs come
448
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.839
up into communal. For example, as you mentioned discord, if
449
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.039
I remember a startup having grown by throwing away a
450
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:12.799
lot of free T shirts, growing their community to around
451
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:16.960
a million, and when we went to the discord channel,
452
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.039
less than twenty people were active in general. So one
453
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.160
of the folks who was managing was discussing this that
454
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.440
now when we do that activity, So I was like,
455
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:28.160
can you can you give me some data around who
456
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.720
is who in terms of describing some demographics, which part
457
00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:35.440
of the country, world experience level, career status and everything.
458
00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:37.079
No, nothing here.
459
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.759
Clearly you see who is visiting your community more, second,
460
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.559
who is who and if they have not updated their profile,
461
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.920
they automatically become less important to you because you do
462
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.319
not know them. And yes, as you said, we do
463
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:53.480
get a decent amount of spam. So for which I
464
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:57.440
asked AI, I was just brainstorming with chat, GPT, Gemini
465
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.079
and others. Should I use your apike and just send
466
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.519
over the data and you will return the response in
467
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.319
a specified format using Bland graft line chain. The answer
468
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:08.920
was AI will be an overkill by AI. So then
469
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.200
we deployed a machine learning model which was able to
470
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.720
detect it. Yes, but but that spam turned out to
471
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.839
be good upgrade to our security and safety for users.
472
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:19.240
Yeah.
473
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:21.200
Yeah, I mean you can look at it two ways, right,
474
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.240
I mean how do you take it head on or
475
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.240
how do you brush it aside, ignore it and you
476
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:28.160
know a later point of time, I mean it brings
477
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.400
down your downfall, right, So absolutely you can. You can
478
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.640
approach it either way, which are the way you like?
479
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.119
So one of the things I wanted to ask you
480
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.599
about in terms of so we spoke about how you
481
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.119
got here? Where have you seen the most full from
482
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:48.000
for community? I mean, who is using it? What is
483
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:51.359
a really slammed downkey use case if you will for
484
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:54.279
using it. I mean I did see on the website
485
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:57.240
that I mean you Obviously enterprises can use it, right,
486
00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:01.119
small developer communities can use it, and folks can use
487
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:04.119
it as well. Can you give us some examples of
488
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:06.720
you know, folks who I mean. I'm not asking you
489
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:10.119
to name customers or anything. I mean, typically, who is
490
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:14.880
the chief buyer for a product like communital Does it
491
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:19.160
come from the CPO organization or the chief product officer
492
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.119
who usually procures it up?
493
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.480
Okay, so let me scale this up.
494
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.240
Any company which is building tools for developers is the
495
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:31.000
target customer because def tools and communities I think are
496
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:34.160
necessaries for each other. Now, in case of a startup,
497
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:38.680
how small or even up till mid size startups, there
498
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.720
would mostly be I would say, kind of a community
499
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:46.319
manager and there's not a lot of deverrel established there
500
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:51.119
and it directly comes under the CMO. So that particular company,
501
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:53.599
probably the CMO is the right person.
502
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:54.440
Makes sense.
503
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.920
Look at it from the perspective of an enterprise. They
504
00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:02.759
would have a head of development programs more than relationship
505
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:06.279
is the programs, So that person is the right one
506
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:11.240
whom we reach out to and talk as usual initial stages.
507
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.400
I used to talk only features feature features. Now we
508
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:16.279
try to understand their problem better and that is serving
509
00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:19.880
us well. And the platform has also evolved over three
510
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:20.799
years now perfect.
511
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:24.720
So a couple more segments I want to get into.
512
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.759
So I want to go back and talk about Arpen,
513
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.559
the founder and the guy who's running the show here, right,
514
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:35.039
I mean, what do you take in or who inspires
515
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:37.119
you to do these things up? And I mean do
516
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.160
you have a role model in your life? I know
517
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.640
your parents put you on the right track from the
518
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.599
childhood days, but I mean, you know, coming out of
519
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.079
as an engineer is one thing. Running a company is
520
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.960
a totally different ballgame, right. I mean, engineering does not
521
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.640
teach all the skills to do this, right, So whom
522
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.319
do you rely on during your dull days and your
523
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.480
rough days for motivation and what keeps you going as
524
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:04.440
a founder and CEO?
525
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:08.240
So okay, one thing that I discuss, and I like,
526
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:12.559
everyone has advisors for my company and then some life
527
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.880
mentors in front of whom I talk out everything, literally
528
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.200
everything whatever is at the back of my head.
529
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.720
Sometimes, you know, the thing that is said is being
530
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:23.240
a founder.
531
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:27.039
Lowers are lower every time you encounter something because you're growing,
532
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:30.640
so when some roadblock occurs, it is even bigger than
533
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:31.240
the last time.
534
00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:32.160
So that is there.
535
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:35.599
But I'm very fortunate to have my advisors also, who
536
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.240
you know, I've had those days wherein initially I used
537
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:40.359
to talk to them that am I getting paranoid?
538
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:42.720
Am I the only one who is excited about it?
539
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.400
The answer was you should be at least the only
540
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.240
one who is excited about it, And for paranoid thing,
541
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.759
they are very straightforward about things that you know, why
542
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.319
are you doing this? How can you get this done
543
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.039
in one month instead of six months? Second is if
544
00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:00.720
I used to ever talk about can or should I
545
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.200
get a part time job or something to get that
546
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.920
cash flow initially into my company. That is the easy
547
00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:08.839
part of tell me, if you shut this down, will
548
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.319
you be able to live with the fact or an
549
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:13.880
unanswered question in your head that I don't know where
550
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:16.160
I would have been able to take it right? So
551
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.519
all those things. But yes, there is a segregation of
552
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.680
a personal support system and a professional support system. There
553
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.160
are a couple of people who overlap, but I am
554
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.039
really grateful to them. They have shaped a lot of
555
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:33.160
the part of my journey professionally personally and been here
556
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.960
of who I am today. And you know, one of
557
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.000
them said that urban, why are you feeling down? You
558
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.559
know this time that I am sitting with you over dinner,
559
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:45.240
people kill for it, so you should feel good about it.
560
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.559
So okay, that immediately elevated my mood. So, yes, all
561
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:53.400
sorts of conversations happened. But yes, that support system is there.
562
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:53.920
Awesome.
563
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:58.839
I'm very glad that you can lean on somebody during
564
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:00.079
both the good time.
565
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:00.839
Of the bad times.
566
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:07.200
Right, that's absolutely important for the founders. So what's the
567
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:10.599
future looking like? But what should people be excited for
568
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:11.839
with the communal?
569
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:12.480
What's coming?
570
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:17.960
So Communal is transforming into a lot more insights that
571
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.640
have been getting collected onto the platform, some things which
572
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:25.559
we built initially but we didn't use them utilize them
573
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:27.640
in terms of how.
574
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.720
Your community is growing.
575
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.400
That kind of insights is getting collected and with AI,
576
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.920
I'm pretty sure it will be more understandable and more
577
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.359
readable if anyone is trying to use it, not only
578
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.039
on a personal level, but more importantly on a company level,
579
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:43.359
they will be able to get to know what is
580
00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.359
the direction of the ecosystem from the people who have
581
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.079
joined their communities, because that is what drives their product. Actually,
582
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:54.680
if I'm building an X direction and my community is
583
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:58.720
wanting to learn why or build on why, then probably
584
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:02.240
I should just different route because people are not interested
585
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.400
that is what we are trying to get towards.
586
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.759
That's beautiful because I can tell you, I mean it's
587
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:08.880
a real life example.
588
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:10.680
I mean, I mentioned discord earlier.
589
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.359
We would have a lot of people who just come
590
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:16.759
and hang out in our community just look at what
591
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:20.079
other people are talking, without even opening their mouth on
592
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:24.119
what they're really there for, you know, And after three
593
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.799
months of just dormancy, no word whatsoever, they might put
594
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.640
a message, Hey, I've been tracking this and I have this.
595
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.319
Idea to build this app. Would you be able to help?
596
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.440
And I mean, and to my point earlier, and they would.
597
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:40.119
Have had some fancy nickname and you wouldn't know who
598
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.440
they are. And in some cases I've come to find out,
599
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:45.599
I mean, they are a CTO of a company just
600
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.519
waiting to see if they get the right answer through
601
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.839
the community. I mean, and if you know them in
602
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.559
a better way through a product like community.
603
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:55.559
I mean, it's a win win for everybody.
604
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:58.240
You know, So I'm so glad that you guys are
605
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.440
doing that and the insights spot that you mentioned that
606
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:03.559
as well. I mean, you know, it is very important
607
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.720
for the buyers that you said, right, whether it's a
608
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:11.480
CMO or the developer programs leaders in all these enterprises.
609
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.960
I mean, that's what drives their decision and next steps
610
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.720
as well, right. I mean, if they understand, hey, this
611
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:21.440
is where we're going wrong. This campaign is working well
612
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:24.880
versus that campaign is not working well, whether it's just
613
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.400
throwing our T shirts or something else, you know, at
614
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.880
least they need to know that is causing the spike
615
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:32.680
or the lull and when the developers are coming in
616
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:35.400
so great that you guys are doing that. So all
617
00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.839
the best to you and the team. RPEN, thanks so
618
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:42.000
much for sharing your journey. I loved all your stories.
619
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.559
I'm thankful that you were able to share all those
620
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:46.559
anecdotes with us.
621
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:48.119
I mean, it always makes it interesting.
622
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.640
I mean, the life is all about that, so I'm
623
00:31:50.680 --> 00:31:52.119
glad you were open to sharing that.
624
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:54.480
Wish you and the team the very best In commut.
625
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.039
I'll be sure to check it out and I'm already
626
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.880
thinking of a few people whom I can introduce communal too,
627
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.240
so I'll speak to your offline about it.
628
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:04.160
So good luck to you and the team.
629
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.039
Thank you, thank you so much, Anthony and I am
630
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.759
excited to be the first podcast of the year. So
631
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.920
a very happy newyear to all the listeners and viewers
632
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.880
and obviously to you, and really grateful for the opportunity.
633
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.400
It has been a lovely discussion.
634
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:20.640
Thanks so much. Have a great rest of the weekend.
635
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:31.279
Bye, thank you, Bye,
