Intercultural Communication Decoded: The Global Anatomy of Trust

WEBVTT
NOTE
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Dmytro Shvets: In today's conversation,
I will talk about the very
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interesting topic devoted to.
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Understanding other cultures, but even
more deep about the trust building issues.
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And to go deeper into this topic, I
invited my guest Maryna Starodubska.
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She's the author of the book,
understanding Ukrainians Across Cultural
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Perspective, and she's also Cross-Cultural
Interaction Consultant and Kyiv Mohyla
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Business School Adjunct Professor.
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Hi Maryna and welcome to the show.
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Maryna : Hi.
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Thanks for having me,
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Dmytro Shvets: Maryna.
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Can we talk about the
trust issue in general?
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What is the anatomy of trust?
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What are the main ingredients of trust
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Maryna : right now?
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If you are an exporter and you're
looking at markets to enter with your
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product or service, one of the key things
to look at is how generalized trust.
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Structured generalized trust
is the ratio of trust to
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ingroup, to trust, to outgroup.
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Ingroup is people I know.
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My family, my friends, my colleagues.
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Outgroup is people from the street.
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Dmytro Shvets: Okay?
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Maryna : Usually in a culture level
of trust to ingroup is higher.
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Then level of trust to Outgroup,
but the question is how much higher?
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Dmytro Shvets: So that means that I trust
more to those people that I know.
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Yeah.
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Whereas those people that I don't know.
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Yes.
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Maryna : Which is natural and expected.
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But let's take some countries
popular amongst Ukrainian businesses
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to enter with their products.
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Let's take.
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United States.
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Okay.
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It is a very lucrative market.
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It's big.
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There's funding, there's perspective.
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Demand is very high range of
products and services, and demand
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is very broad, but generalized
trust in United States, it's 37%,
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Dmytro Shvets: Which means that they like 37%.
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Of people trust to outer group or
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Maryna : 37% of population say, generally
people around me can be trusted.
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Dmytro Shvets: Okay.
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Maryna : Which is not a high number.
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Because for instance, Germany, west
Germany has generalized trust of 45%.
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Norway, Finland have
generalized trust of over 65%.
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There is a thing called trust radius.
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How wide is the circle of people
which potentially one can trust?
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And in United States, the trust
radius is 50%, which means.
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It's quite wide.
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So yes, Americans may be not very trustful
at the beginning, but you can take certain
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steps and the trust circle will open.
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Dmytro Shvets: And you have like more
chances to get this trust
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within some time of cooperation.
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Maryna : Okay.
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Yeah.
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Let's take China level of generalized
trust is 64%, almost twice the
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percentage of the U.S.. But China's
trust radius is 25% and US is 50.
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Which means that radius
adjusted trust in China.
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Is lower in the US even though the
original indicator is high, which
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means in China it's gonna take
you a lot more time, a lot more
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effort and a lot more information
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Dmytro Shvets: to get in this circle.
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Yes, to get in this circle.
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They trust.
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Maryna : Exactly.
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The importance of trust if you're an
exporter, there are five aspects of it.
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First, it defines your time to market
because if it takes you half a year to
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only get to pre-operation talks in China.
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In United States, you can potentially,
given that your product is in demand,
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achieve a lot more in comparable terms.
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Second format of cooperation.
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If we're talking about
countries like Romania.
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Poland, Moldova, Italy, Turkey
Egypt countries where Ukrainian
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businesses have interest.
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All of these cultures are highly
relationship oriented, which
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means there's no way you can gain
trust through correspondence.
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You need to go there.
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You need to meet people.
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You need to socialize with people.
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Dmytro Shvets: That's interesting because when
I consult companies to go abroad and
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somebody is asking me if I can help
them with for example, the golf area.
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Yeah.
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And I say that I don't know how to
build trust there, but I heard that
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there is a saying that you need one year
to drink tea with this people first.
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Maryna : Okay.
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Dmytro Shvets: To get into their circle and
only then start talking business.
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But on the other hand, to get
into the Swedish trust circle
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took me also a lot of time.
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So at minimum, like half a year.
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And they look at your actions, not words.
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Yeah.
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So they like.
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The beginning, but then you should
prove that you are okay and you
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can be trusted in the future.
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Maryna : That is very true.
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And the third aspect of looking
at trust is the grounds.
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What is the trust built on?
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Like you said, in how trust
societies, Scandinavia Baltic states.
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You have some advanced trust.
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So they basically loan you
some trust at the beginning.
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Yeah.
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And watch you act.
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And if you do not drop that ball,
the trust goes upward from there.
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But when we are talking about middle East.
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Latin America, Latin, Eastern
Europe central Europe Asia,
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Southeast Asia, Africa, in this
region, trust is not advanced.
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You don't get the loan of
trust before cooperation.
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You need to actually spend some
physical time, physical peasants,
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attention, resources, energy.
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This initial trust.
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And not only that, the fourth aspect of
the five about trust is rank sensitivity.
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If you are gonna Norway, Estonia,
again, you can easily be.
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Leader of a department.
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Or you can be a high level specialist
to establish the first contact.
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Dmytro Shvets: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Maryna : But
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if you're going anywhere south ward
or east Ward you better be founder.
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Or you better the CEO if you
want any kind of talks to happen.
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So rank sensitivity in other
words, power, distance.
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How much problem there is to inequality
in position, privilege, status?
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Autonomy authority, things like that.
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So Scandinavia and Baltic states
have low power distance, which
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means diagonal communication
between people of different ranks.
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It's possible.
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Intro: But if
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Maryna : you're talking about Asia,
Africa, Eastern Europe, Balkans,
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Dmytro Shvets: Ukraine included.
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Yeah,
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Maryna : exactly.
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Our power distance colleagues is
among the highest in the world.
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It's 95 outta 120.
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Intro: For
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Maryna : reference, Malaysia's
power distance is a hundred.
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Okay.
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So ours is very high.
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So in countries, cultures like
these, unless you possess a certain
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rank, no one talks to seriously.
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And the last,
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yeah.
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The last aspect of trust
is whether trust is.
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Or not.
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Let's say you went to Estonia as
a representative of your company.
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You had some talks, you
brought back some contacts.
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Next time your colleague goes
in, in flat power distances, your
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colleague will be met as someone
whom they already know through you.
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Through your company.
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But in higher power, distance
cultures, that's gonna be
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an entire new conversation.
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An entirely new relationship
because trust isn't transient.
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Dmytro Shvets: Okay.
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So if, for example, director of the
company went to Middle East and then
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agreed to some deal, and then they
sent the manager of department so
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this manager of department will need
to build everything from scratch.
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Maryna : That manager of the
department will have to build their
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own relationship with department
in the Middle East from scratch.
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Talking trusting is entirely the.
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Dmytro Shvets: Okay.
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I also met this situation when I
was working with Caucasian region.
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Yeah.
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With Azerbaijan for example.
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There was another thing about the trust
they show and the real trust behind
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what they talk like everybody are.
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Very hospitable.
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They invite you to drink some
wine, tea, coffee eat some food.
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And they are so open hearted
and promise almost everything
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that you would like to get.
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But then it appears that it was like
one part of hospitality and then
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the real issue happens afterwards.
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Yeah.
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So you still need to go
into this communication and
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conversation in informal way.
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Maryna : And
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Dmytro Shvets: you can feel that trust is there
already, like from the beginning, like
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you, you came and you got this trust.
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But in reality it took me, I don't
know, one year maybe to build
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real bonds with people and even
make them speak freely with me.
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Not hiding something like they're
just expressing their thoughts.
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Maryna : There is a thing
called social norms.
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Social norms are what's okay and not
okay to do In a certain culture, the same
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social norm in different cultures may
have different meaning, different timing.
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And different obligation.
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Let's take it in the Caucasus.
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Hospitality is a matter of politeness.
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If you do not treat your potential
partner at a good restaurant, you don't
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receive them well in, in a good hotel.
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You are playing rude.
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This is politeness.
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It has nothing to do
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Dmytro Shvets: with business
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Maryna : or lack there off.
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Now, let's say Ukraine, which
you and I represent in Ukraine,
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hospitality is a product of trust
for a Ukrainian to treat somebody.
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At home or to accompany
somebody to a restaurant.
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Usually it happens after some
kind of communication, some
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kind of interaction happens.
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So to us, hospitality is a
gift, a token of my trust.
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So same norm, different timing,
different application, different meaning.
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Same for emotions, like what you said.
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There are cultures which are neutral.
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Germany, United States, Austria,
China, and there are cultures which
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are effective with an a. Ukraine,
Romania, Moldova Italy, Turkey, Spain.
00:12:03.695 --> 00:12:04.175
Exactly.
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So neutral cultures are those
where in professional context,
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emotions should be controlled.
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So if you are holding negotiations
with your German, Austrian, Estonian
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partners, Danish, Norwegian, Finnish,
and you lose your temper, or you
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express
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frustration in an overly emotional manner,
you just threw in your negotiation.
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It doesn't matter how passionate you are,
emoting too much in a serious context.
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In cultures like this is perceived
as lack of professionals.
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Because emotion should be controlled.
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Dmytro Shvets: Maybe Japan is the top in this rank.
00:12:55.704 --> 00:12:55.944
Yeah.
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Maryna : Yes.
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Japan is one of the most
neutral culture in that sense.
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Now if you're talking about effective
cultures, now effective cultures
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use emotion as a way to signal about
your trust, about your willingness
00:13:12.389 --> 00:13:18.329
to cooperate, about the connection
being established, and the degree
00:13:18.659 --> 00:13:21.119
of that emotion expression differs.
00:13:21.389 --> 00:13:27.449
So in effective cultures, if you
are not emoting, that is strange.
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You may perceived as disinterested.
00:13:31.094 --> 00:13:34.324
You may suspicious, distracted, aloof.
00:13:35.084 --> 00:13:41.934
When we're talking about reading
off the emotions and behaviors of
00:13:41.934 --> 00:13:46.764
representatives of different cultures,
it doesn't hurt to know what that
00:13:46.764 --> 00:13:49.429
symbolizes in that specific culture.
00:13:50.009 --> 00:13:50.709
Dmytro Shvets: Are there any.
00:13:51.699 --> 00:13:52.959
Like basic rules.
00:13:53.079 --> 00:13:57.269
If you did not spend time or
invested your time in understanding
00:13:57.269 --> 00:13:58.919
the culture beforehand.
00:13:59.489 --> 00:14:04.109
Are there some simple rules that you
should consider talking with any culture
00:14:04.109 --> 00:14:07.619
in the world not to fail completely?
00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.579
Maryna : First consider
high trust, low trust.
00:14:12.449 --> 00:14:16.439
There are sociology surveys
nationally in every country.
00:14:16.439 --> 00:14:18.779
So this information is
very easy to obtain.
00:14:19.079 --> 00:14:21.639
Dmytro Shvets: By the way, I have here
one book this your book.
00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:21.759
Yeah.
00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:23.129
So this is yeah exactly.
00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.369
The book about how to
understand Ukrainians.
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:29.404
And you have here the
source of data about trust.
00:14:29.514 --> 00:14:29.804
Yeah.
00:14:29.809 --> 00:14:30.849
This high, low trust.
00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:31.889
This is a quadrant.
00:14:31.889 --> 00:14:32.069
Yeah.
00:14:32.069 --> 00:14:32.844
So I saw it here.
00:14:32.844 --> 00:14:33.114
Yeah.
00:14:33.204 --> 00:14:33.594
This one.
00:14:33.594 --> 00:14:33.834
Yeah.
00:14:33.884 --> 00:14:36.189
Maryna : So let lo first,
high trust, low trust.
00:14:36.239 --> 00:14:38.439
Second power distance.
00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:44.079
How important it is to be of the
same rank, how important titles are,
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:48.699
how important it is to have several.
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:52.954
With different people to ensure
that everyone is on board.
00:14:53.234 --> 00:14:59.209
Third one is risk aversion, or risk
proneness called uncertainty avoidance.
00:14:59.689 --> 00:15:04.369
If a culture is risk
averse, Ukraine, Germany.
00:15:05.259 --> 00:15:09.009
Turkey, Egypt, Moldova, Romania.
00:15:09.369 --> 00:15:14.769
In a risk averse culture, it's a big
mistake to offer to a client, some sense,
00:15:14.769 --> 00:15:17.319
some solution that's completely new.
00:15:17.709 --> 00:15:18.609
Untested.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:19.124
You'll be the first.
00:15:20.364 --> 00:15:22.614
You're literally shooting
yourself in the foot there.
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:28.064
But in more risk prone
cultures, Australia, Israel,
00:15:28.514 --> 00:15:31.375
United States Netherlands.
00:15:32.095 --> 00:15:33.445
It could actually be a good thing.
00:15:34.205 --> 00:15:40.145
So if you look at these three things, you
can make your life a little bit easier.
00:15:40.445 --> 00:15:44.915
But again, reading on some cultural
aspects is always a good idea.
00:15:44.915 --> 00:15:48.755
And luckily, this information is
highly available in open sources.
00:15:49.025 --> 00:15:52.625
Dmytro Shvets: From one hand, yes, but from
another hand until I actually
00:15:52.625 --> 00:15:55.834
met you in the business school
where we both teach I have.
00:15:55.874 --> 00:16:00.194
Been also reading this like cultural
issues or cultural peculiarities,
00:16:00.194 --> 00:16:06.234
business cultural peculiarities, and in
most cases it is so stereotyping yeah.
00:16:06.294 --> 00:16:07.615
And so generalized.
00:16:07.615 --> 00:16:07.765
Yeah.
00:16:07.765 --> 00:16:09.175
So that it won't help.
00:16:09.175 --> 00:16:13.675
It even it's in any case in Japan,
if you are in Japan, in any case,
00:16:13.675 --> 00:16:18.984
you should not forget to give
your business card with two hands.
00:16:19.345 --> 00:16:19.765
Uhhuh, this is
00:16:20.155 --> 00:16:23.845
the most important issue that you
should remember when going to Japan.
00:16:24.145 --> 00:16:27.214
So this is the most common
sources that I have met.
00:16:27.514 --> 00:16:30.760
Are there any other sources
that people can have a look at
00:16:30.770 --> 00:16:32.119
quickly and get this information?
00:16:32.119 --> 00:16:32.724
Maryna : Of course.
00:16:33.439 --> 00:16:34.369
There are two different things.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.019
There's protocol, yeah.
00:16:36.054 --> 00:16:37.094
Like the diploma protocol.
00:16:37.094 --> 00:16:37.374
Yeah.
00:16:37.424 --> 00:16:40.904
With what hands how
many degrees of a bowel.
00:16:40.904 --> 00:16:44.414
This is protocol now and there's
cross-cultural interaction.
00:16:46.049 --> 00:16:48.389
Or cross-cultural
interaction explains why.
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:49.559
Why to hands.
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:50.484
Yeah, why?
00:16:50.834 --> 00:16:51.124
Dmytro Shvets: Yeah.
00:16:51.239 --> 00:16:54.869
Maryna : And cross-cultural
interaction is a science that
00:16:54.869 --> 00:16:57.239
has several authors in Ukraine.
00:16:57.239 --> 00:16:59.399
It's me outside of Ukraine.
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:06.879
On a global arena, you have
Geert Hofstede, Fons Trompenaars,
00:17:06.879 --> 00:17:13.429
Michele Gelfand, Edward T. Hall,.
00:17:13.429 --> 00:17:16.489
Shalom Schwartz, Inglehart, Welzel, if
you know what World Value survey is.
00:17:18.034 --> 00:17:20.884
One of the biggest cross-cultural
service on the planet.
00:17:21.184 --> 00:17:27.094
So if you read any of the sources or ask
ChatGPT to pull together some summary
00:17:27.094 --> 00:17:31.324
for you or based on peer reviewed
publications, then you'll definitely
00:17:31.324 --> 00:17:37.594
have yourself a good base understanding
evidence-based, what the culture is about.
00:17:38.719 --> 00:17:44.579
Dmytro Shvets: Do you have any typical mistakes that
people do when they start to communicate
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:49.389
with new culture and they have this
things that they do not not correctly.
00:17:49.869 --> 00:17:50.109
Maryna : I do.
00:17:50.929 --> 00:17:54.830
If you're talking about Ukrainian
companies trying to enter for market,
00:17:54.830 --> 00:17:57.259
so five mistakes, mistake number one.
00:17:59.594 --> 00:18:04.904
Is too straightforward, too
judgemental, and overly sarcastic.
00:18:06.584 --> 00:18:07.364
Bluntness.
00:18:08.779 --> 00:18:10.249
Judgmental approach.
00:18:10.249 --> 00:18:13.849
Now, when I say judgmental approach
is when you use a lot of adjectives.
00:18:14.059 --> 00:18:17.029
Ineffective, unacceptable, yeah.
00:18:17.059 --> 00:18:17.419
Things like
00:18:17.419 --> 00:18:17.509
Intro: that.
00:18:17.879 --> 00:18:17.899
So
00:18:18.709 --> 00:18:22.729
Maryna : Ukraine is very
confrontational in the way we
00:18:22.729 --> 00:18:24.349
discuss, in the way we deal now.
00:18:24.349 --> 00:18:30.409
Confrontational means I express my
frustration, dissatisfaction and refusal
00:18:30.409 --> 00:18:31.594
bluntly and straight to your face.
00:18:32.584 --> 00:18:36.634
Most absolute majority of cultures
in the world are not like that.
00:18:36.634 --> 00:18:39.424
So that's first mistake.
00:18:39.664 --> 00:18:40.534
No sarcasm.
00:18:41.674 --> 00:18:46.294
It, there is a very limited culture,
a number of cultures in the world,
00:18:46.294 --> 00:18:50.794
which actually allow sarcasm
in serious business dealings.
00:18:51.124 --> 00:18:52.144
Absolute minority.
00:18:52.874 --> 00:18:57.354
Second mistake assuming
everybody is like you.
00:18:59.739 --> 00:19:01.209
Assuming everybody.
00:19:01.209 --> 00:19:07.479
I believe something my colleagues
in Japan, Azer by John Estonia
00:19:07.479 --> 00:19:09.189
or us will believe something.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:09.939
The same thing.
00:19:09.939 --> 00:19:10.209
No,
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.824
Dmytro Shvets: that's actually the same mistake
when people say that this product will
00:19:13.824 --> 00:19:18.229
be, this need will be in the place
in the market because I need this.
00:19:18.229 --> 00:19:18.379
Yeah.
00:19:18.379 --> 00:19:20.539
So there's exactly the same
mistake by starter person.
00:19:21.529 --> 00:19:24.664
Maryna : So kind try to stand in your.
00:19:26.494 --> 00:19:28.384
Shoes from another culture.
00:19:29.254 --> 00:19:30.904
And look at your company, at
your product with their eyes.
00:19:31.594 --> 00:19:31.804
Three.
00:19:32.634 --> 00:19:35.604
Everybody will overwork
because I tell them to.
00:19:37.554 --> 00:19:41.754
Overworking is a way to
show you dedication, and
00:19:41.754 --> 00:19:43.404
it's an element of prestige.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.959
You can only be respected
as a professional if you
00:19:46.959 --> 00:19:48.369
overwork significantly.
00:19:48.909 --> 00:19:52.299
Now that's a problem in European
Union, which has a directive
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:54.159
about worklife balance.
00:19:54.729 --> 00:19:58.764
If you having teams hiring
anywhere, Poland, Romania, Czechia,
00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:04.179
Austria, Germany, forget it, not
only over time is very costly.
00:20:04.989 --> 00:20:10.439
It actually has to be agreed
upon, assuming that best and
00:20:10.439 --> 00:20:14.999
you do not need local expertise
always hire local consultants.
00:20:17.684 --> 00:20:24.464
Because you will never be able to
gauge the granular nuances of a
00:20:24.464 --> 00:20:27.704
product demand in a competitive market.
00:20:28.304 --> 00:20:32.034
If you're entering a market where
you are the second provider.
00:20:32.094 --> 00:20:33.834
By all means make mistake.
00:20:33.834 --> 00:20:35.544
You may make mistakes you like,
00:20:35.964 --> 00:20:37.014
Dmytro Shvets: but unique product.
00:20:37.014 --> 00:20:37.224
Yeah.
00:20:37.224 --> 00:20:39.624
And innovative, unique
product that everybody needs.
00:20:39.629 --> 00:20:39.959
Maryna : Exactly.
00:20:41.214 --> 00:20:42.444
But if you're entering United States.
00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:46.749
The most competitive market in the
world, you better have local expertise
00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:49.989
because failure is just too costly.
00:20:50.829 --> 00:20:54.219
Dmytro Shvets: By the way how different
are the states of United States?
00:20:54.249 --> 00:20:57.789
Very, should you consider the
different cultures within the country?
00:20:57.789 --> 00:20:57.909
Very
00:20:59.409 --> 00:21:02.889
Maryna : United States is
actually 50 subcultures.
00:21:04.104 --> 00:21:04.434
It's 50.
00:21:04.434 --> 00:21:06.969
It's not one object, it's 50 50 states.
00:21:06.969 --> 00:21:07.149
It's
00:21:07.149 --> 00:21:07.839
Dmytro Shvets: 50 states.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:08.199
Yeah.
00:21:08.889 --> 00:21:10.119
Maryna : It's 50 subcultures.
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:10.869
It's not one culture.
00:21:11.659 --> 00:21:17.729
And the lastly invest time in
trust, building and communication.
00:21:18.239 --> 00:21:21.419
Absolute minority of cultures
operate on the premise.
00:21:21.629 --> 00:21:23.129
Let's get straight to business.
00:21:23.189 --> 00:21:23.789
Let's not.
00:21:24.494 --> 00:21:25.694
Dmytro Shvets: Disregarding the country.
00:21:25.694 --> 00:21:27.224
So this is a universal rule.
00:21:27.224 --> 00:21:27.374
Yeah.
00:21:27.374 --> 00:21:30.794
So invest time and trust
building and communication.
00:21:31.544 --> 00:21:35.914
Maryna : The question is how much time
to we a month or half a year, but less.
00:21:36.574 --> 00:21:40.954
Don't forget, cooperation is
not built on your product alone.
00:21:40.954 --> 00:21:47.854
Cooperation is built on mutual, mutually
beneficial partnership between your
00:21:47.854 --> 00:21:49.954
company and your vis-a-vis company.
00:21:50.659 --> 00:21:53.949
Dmytro Shvets: And even I would say
humans like people from one
00:21:53.949 --> 00:21:55.179
company and another company.
00:21:55.209 --> 00:22:00.009
'cause in my experience, I have seen a
lot of cases when the decision was made,
00:22:00.009 --> 00:22:03.819
not because of the product or the company,
but because I liked the other guy.
00:22:03.969 --> 00:22:04.179
Yeah.
00:22:04.179 --> 00:22:08.179
So it's like one director is okay
with other one and they have like
00:22:08.179 --> 00:22:11.799
the similar values and point of
use and they like each other.
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.739
So then the business will go,
even if the product is not.
00:22:14.909 --> 00:22:16.589
That good that was expected.
00:22:16.964 --> 00:22:17.454
Intro: Exactly.
00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:24.319
Dmytro Shvets: By the way, when I was talking to
Danes, they, they say that they're almost
00:22:24.379 --> 00:22:30.589
that much direct and open in, and also
in with this black humor as Ukrainians.
00:22:30.974 --> 00:22:35.299
And they like similar to us with
this notion of directness and
00:22:35.349 --> 00:22:36.669
sarcasm, I would say as well.
00:22:36.719 --> 00:22:38.639
Maryna : There are different
types of directness.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:39.369
Dmytro Shvets: They're
00:22:40.794 --> 00:22:45.049
Maryna : vein are indeed direct
and they appreciate a good sarcasm.
00:22:45.069 --> 00:22:48.019
But direct, and direct.
00:22:48.199 --> 00:22:48.979
A different direct.
00:22:49.474 --> 00:22:49.654
Intro: Yeah.
00:22:49.734 --> 00:22:54.234
Maryna : It's one thing to say, marina,
could you be emulator with your report?
00:22:54.744 --> 00:22:55.884
Factual, sarcastic.
00:22:55.934 --> 00:23:00.014
But if I say, marina, why
are you solely responsible?
00:23:00.044 --> 00:23:04.289
Can't you see your report is not
still in This is judgmental drug.
00:23:04.874 --> 00:23:05.084
Intro: Yeah.
00:23:05.564 --> 00:23:08.474
Maryna : So there are different
time, different types of direct
00:23:08.474 --> 00:23:10.064
Ukrainians are judgmental, direct.
00:23:12.074 --> 00:23:16.369
Norwegians fans, Germans gravitate Dutch.
00:23:16.694 --> 00:23:17.234
Dutch is William.
00:23:18.674 --> 00:23:19.004
Yes.
00:23:21.284 --> 00:23:21.494
No.
00:23:21.494 --> 00:23:22.064
Judgment.
00:23:22.964 --> 00:23:23.624
Observation.
00:23:24.509 --> 00:23:28.009
Dmytro Shvets: What are the, maybe the last
question to you or and yeah.
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:29.449
Three last question to you.
00:23:29.454 --> 00:23:34.274
From your experience and your opinion,
what are the regions of the world that
00:23:34.274 --> 00:23:39.804
are most easy to enter and understand
and to integrate in the culture?
00:23:40.444 --> 00:23:46.994
Maryna : I I my philosophy in inter a
culture communication is there is no easy.
00:23:48.014 --> 00:23:48.164
Intro: Because,
00:23:49.124 --> 00:23:51.794
Maryna : One of the most
familiar in a sense.
00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:56.849
Similar culture to Ukrainians,
a Colombia, and Argentina.
00:23:57.514 --> 00:23:57.644
Intro: True.
00:23:58.154 --> 00:23:58.334
Not
00:23:58.429 --> 00:24:00.149
Maryna : in Europe,
Colombia and Argentina.
00:24:00.149 --> 00:24:00.554
Intro: Yeah, true.
00:24:01.004 --> 00:24:05.504
Maryna : However, having said that, even
though we have a lot of similarities,
00:24:05.504 --> 00:24:12.829
there is a lot of nuances and uniqueness,
so I always urge clients do not think in
00:24:12.829 --> 00:24:14.869
terms which region is easier to enter.
00:24:15.619 --> 00:24:17.889
Because, I can make less effort.
00:24:17.979 --> 00:24:18.309
Yeah.
00:24:18.489 --> 00:24:19.119
Like everybody
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:22.479
Dmytro Shvets: from Ukraine was thinking that
Poland is the most closest to us
00:24:22.479 --> 00:24:24.189
culturally and mentally market.
00:24:24.189 --> 00:24:24.879
We should go there.
00:24:25.024 --> 00:24:29.449
Maryna : Even though Poland and Ukraine
have a lot of historic period where
00:24:29.449 --> 00:24:33.754
there they were intertwined and there
are quite a bit of similarities.
00:24:33.754 --> 00:24:35.044
Poland is very different.
00:24:35.284 --> 00:24:35.524
Intro: Exactly.
00:24:35.524 --> 00:24:38.104
Maryna : First of all, it's an
individualist society and we're highly
00:24:38.104 --> 00:24:43.229
collectivist, yeah, just don't think,
but don't think about in terms of easy.
00:24:43.449 --> 00:24:43.669
Yes.
00:24:43.699 --> 00:24:53.834
Think about cost and benefit of bridging
the cultural distance because the more.
00:24:54.564 --> 00:24:59.904
Differences there are in approaches
to motivation management.
00:24:59.934 --> 00:25:05.334
Other things, the more it'll
cost to re-engineer your process.
00:25:05.904 --> 00:25:08.609
So if the market is highly lucrative.
00:25:10.014 --> 00:25:15.924
Then probably it is worth attempting,
but if you're not sure about
00:25:15.924 --> 00:25:20.094
the perspectives of a product or
service in respective market, and
00:25:20.094 --> 00:25:22.674
the cultural distance is high, so
00:25:22.729 --> 00:25:25.104
Additional investment will be necessary.
00:25:25.404 --> 00:25:29.364
Maybe take a little more time
to weigh the cost benefit.
00:25:29.514 --> 00:25:35.514
So my advice, don't look for easy,
look for cost benefit analysis, because
00:25:35.514 --> 00:25:38.184
bridging cultural divide is an investment.
00:25:39.384 --> 00:25:42.144
Dmytro Shvets: Actually you have answered my
last question about the the last
00:25:42.144 --> 00:25:47.094
advice that you would give to our
audience within this question as well.
00:25:47.344 --> 00:25:50.674
In fact, what you're saying is
that in any case, you will need
00:25:50.734 --> 00:25:52.544
to study the other culture.
00:25:52.934 --> 00:25:53.114
Yeah.
00:25:53.144 --> 00:25:56.954
In any case, you will need
to invest some resources in
00:25:57.014 --> 00:25:59.624
building trust and communication.
00:26:00.044 --> 00:26:03.964
And in any case, you will
need time to get, trusted.
00:26:04.054 --> 00:26:04.324
Yeah.
00:26:04.324 --> 00:26:09.684
And in some cases it is quicker and
easy, easier maybe to some extent.
00:26:09.924 --> 00:26:12.619
And what is the most
important that you will need?
00:26:13.434 --> 00:26:18.954
Or you will use different tools depending
on the culture, how to get this trust
00:26:19.404 --> 00:26:22.354
and start your sales within this country.
00:26:22.564 --> 00:26:25.984
'cause in, like for example,
in my experience now I am
00:26:26.064 --> 00:26:27.804
promoting my educational.
00:26:28.019 --> 00:26:32.219
Programs the start global
education towards Nordic Europe.
00:26:32.789 --> 00:26:36.879
And even though I have contacts
there, I have partners there.
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:42.339
I still cannot go directly to
consumers because they do not trust me.
00:26:42.344 --> 00:26:43.044
They do not know me to.
00:26:43.564 --> 00:26:49.994
And in this case I can borrow
this trust from local associations
00:26:49.994 --> 00:26:53.164
or local partnership that they
will use then to build trust.
00:26:53.494 --> 00:26:56.134
And in other countries, like
you said, in Middle East, it
00:26:56.134 --> 00:26:57.664
is totally different story.
00:26:57.664 --> 00:27:01.424
So you, every time you will
need to build your own trust
00:27:01.454 --> 00:27:02.954
connections with this company.
00:27:02.984 --> 00:27:03.134
Yeah.
00:27:03.134 --> 00:27:05.114
So in any case, you need to study.
00:27:05.114 --> 00:27:08.049
You need to understand the
cultures, and this will be.
00:27:08.779 --> 00:27:14.279
A very good base for you to not make
too much mistake because of, in, in
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:19.069
any case, you will do these mistakes
when you will enter new company or
00:27:19.169 --> 00:27:20.334
start communication with new culture.
00:27:21.069 --> 00:27:21.639
Great.
00:27:21.669 --> 00:27:22.209
Thanks, marina.
00:27:22.479 --> 00:27:24.289
That was yeah, I think that's true.
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.159
Only the opening Yeah.
00:27:26.159 --> 00:27:30.479
The small the small part of what
the intercultural communication is.
00:27:30.479 --> 00:27:34.300
And I have so many questions more,
but unfortunately we don't have
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:35.840
too much time for this episode.
00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:41.970
But I hope that you will come back
and probably we will tell more about
00:27:41.970 --> 00:27:43.830
other cultures to our listeners.
00:27:45.055 --> 00:27:46.225
Maryna : Thank you for having me.
00:27:46.435 --> 00:27:49.585
If you'd like to have me again, I'd,
I'll be glad to share some more.
00:27:49.585 --> 00:27:49.885
Thanks.
00:27:50.185 --> 00:27:54.505
Dmytro Shvets: Special thanks to all listeners who
made it so far, and if you'd like this
00:27:54.505 --> 00:27:58.165
episode and you would like to get more
insights on international expansion,
00:27:58.495 --> 00:28:02.245
please subscribe to the podcast so
you don't miss the next episode.