Rogue One

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to each other and party or dudes.
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Hello and welcome back to the Star Wars Generations podcast. Friends.
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We are so happy because we're getting to resume our
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conversation about the movies we have some other episodes that
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are gonna be mixed in. There's some more Star Wars
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Contact coming later this year that we're gonna be talking about.
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I've been enjoying the Star Wars Outlaws games, which I
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really want to talk to folks about. But today we
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are talking about the next movie in our journey, Rogue one,
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And this is a movie about people showing up when
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they're ready. Some of them are ready from the start,
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others of them have to show up part way through.
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So right now, it's myself and Aaron McGowan, Alex Corman.
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He's gonna be that guy who comes to the you wing,
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you know, right at the last battle. He's gonna be
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jumping on when he can.
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He's the bandwagon rebel.
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He's the guy that just affected from the Empire exactly exactly.
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So let me just start by, what'd you think of
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this movie?
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Ah? I love it.
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Oh my god.
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This is every time people ask me my favorite Star
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Wars movie, this is the answer, and it surprises most people.
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People don't see it coming. But this is a great
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fucking film.
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And I thought that the moment it came out, I've
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seen it like, Okay, this is not gonna be Alex
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Corman numbers, but I thought like four times in theaters.
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I'm sure he saw it like fucking twelve or something crazy.
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But yeah, I just loved it, and it's such an
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important story and I love how much it kind of
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grounds and brings the Star Wars world into realism.
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Yeah, because like, yeah, it's not black and white.
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Not every good guy is true a good guy, and
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this is like the kind of thing that really got
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delved into an and or even more. But rogue one
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walk so and or could run. You know, Yes, we
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needed this film to bring a more adult tone to
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Star Wars.
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Having a movie where your male protagonist and hero who
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you're supposed to have all the happy feelings for, shoots
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his ally in order to escape. Like that's not heroic,
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that is not what the Jedi would ever do, but
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it's what he has to do in that moment. And
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for me, I love the high adventure of the Star
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Wars movies, but this feels so much, like you said,
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it feels so much more realistic. You know, there's very
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little Sith powers, there's very little forced powers except for
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Darth Vader doing Darth Vader things. There's most of these
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people like, if these people don't do their mission, Luke
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Skywalker never does what he does. But Luke Skywalker doesn't
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know any of their names. Neither does Lea neither. It
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is han none that most people do. And it's just
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there were so many things that I loved about this movie.
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And it's funny because as I rewatch it, I'm reminded
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and I think this is an important conversation to have
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within Star Wars right now. I love the movie so
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much that I forgive the ginormous plot holes that there
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are and continuity errors of things like, uh, you know,
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things happening that just doesn't like I have no idea
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how fast light Speed is and where all these places
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are because ships appear at the speed of plot, and
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you know, when the thing is, it's so good and
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it does so many things so well that we don't care,
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because the fact is, no Star Wars project has been perfect.
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They all have little things like this, and it's fun
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to laugh at them. But the fact is this is
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just a great movie.
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Yeah.
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Light Speed has never been a science and it never
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will be. It's just like you said, it's speed of
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the plot. It's just the way it goes. But yeah, no,
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I agree. This movie is ugh, it's so good. Let's
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get into it. Do you have where do you want
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to start? Plot points or characters?
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Let's start with some of the plot points. This was
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such a I think maybe more overall, but just this
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was such a different kind of movie from everything we've
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seen in Star Wars. There was no plot crawl at
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the beginning. The music was just like this one jarring
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note instead of what we're used to. How did it
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feel watching this movie that was so much grittier, so
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much realer, so different from the kind of high space
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fantasy that we're used to in Star Wars.
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Well, my first time watching it through, I went in
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pretty naive.
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I was like, it's a Star Wars movie, you know.
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And I watched it through.
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That lens like until the eleventh hour, Like literally, they're
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like climbing down the tower on forgot the planet but whatever,
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a planet Scariff, thank you. They're like climbing down the tower.
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Everything's gonna end, And I'm like, huh, I wonder how
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they're getting out of this one alive.
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I didn't.
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Spoiler they all die. Oh my god, I didn't see
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it coming.
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That's so sad.
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No, I can be so naive as like a young
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budding bisexual that was equal parts in love with Cassi
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and an Jin, like Diego Luna and Felicity Jones. It's
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unfair to put them across from each other. It's unfair.
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They are very attractive people and then to see them
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just blink into nothingness.
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I was heartbroken. I was heartbroken. It was horrible.
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That's fair, that's fair. Okay, Well, the Council has spoken,
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but Alex has decided to defy the Council and join us,
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even though he's late. Alex Corman, what do you think
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of Rogue One?
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It's one of my favorite Star Wars movies ever made.
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I think it's potentially the best thing dise He's made
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in the Star Wars era. I believe that everything from
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the acting and the interesting story. It makes it really
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sad that they got away from Intellergy Films, because I
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understand that Solo maybe wasn't as good, but like Rogue
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One really just knocked out of the park for me.
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And I remember seeing it in theaters and accidentally leaving
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a bruise on my friend's leg because that was just
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pounding on it when Vader was going down the Hallway
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and seeing that for the first time because I was
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just losing my mind, losing my mind, Arin.
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It was so much good. And we're talking just now
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about how was it for you seeing this movie that
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was so different from every other Star Wars thing that
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we'd had.
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You know, I liked it because, especially at that time,
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we hadn't really broken away from, you know, the main storyline.
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I mean, even episode seven was still in Why I'm
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Even with new characters, and Rogue one had the familiar
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faces in, you know, like little little cameos of like
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you know, Man Mathma and you kind of knew what
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was happening, but by and large, you know, outside of
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her like Vader, like, there wasn't really that many familiar faces.
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But it was funny because it was the first time
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you actually have to see like a ground level movie
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about the rebellion.
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It was like, this is what went down.
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And I understand that people were like, there's no movie
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was made just a for a plot hole, and I
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don't really think that's true. But even if it was,
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it was the best damn plot hole Phil done ever then,
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because like, and it does it does I think ad
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so much extra meaning two Episode four because like, originally
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when the movie was made, it was like, here's just
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here's the weeks of the Death Star. But now to
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know that like you know, uh, you know, orson, not orson, critic,
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Galen or so god Galen orso like risked his life,
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Dott died and put so much of his time, effort
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in life on the line to purposely build a bomb
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in the Death Star.
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Like just and knowing what the Rogue win team went.
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Through to get the Death Star plans, and it just
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puts so much more credence and meaning to that mission,
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you know, and the about over Yavin and all of that.
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Just it was just wonderful.
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It tied it in while still being unique, and we
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got to see Vader's castle, and Vader's Castle made me
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lose my freaking shit in theaters.
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To know that little Annie built his castle on the
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site of his greatest failure.
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I like it. I like it well. And yeah, and
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so I mentioned before you got here, Alex that I
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think one of the things that is great is that,
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like a lot of Star Wars movies, it's such a
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good movie and we so enjoy it that we forget
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about the fact that there's some massive plot holes and
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continuity amors, and I just want to lift up a
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couple walk some of the hubs we're talking about these,
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but just to give two examples, because they're so much
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about the scenes you just talked about. First of all,
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and this is what I had noticed until this time.
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As all the ships are taking off and we've already
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heard that General Ratus's ship has already left, we see
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C three PO and R two D two watching them
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take off. Then we watch Princess Leia's ship take off
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from Adam Ratus's ship, which we find out in the
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now Hope has he three PO and R two D
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two on it. So that's a little weird. But the
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more important one, which again it's.
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Like maybe they just shuttle again.
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This one doesn't make sense, but like who cares. Vader
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watches Princess Leia's ship break away. He watched them run
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the plans under the ship, and then when they show
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up in the next movie, she's like, oh no, we're
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not a mercy mission. I don't know what, but he
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saw them and she knows he saw them.
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Well, to be fair, do we think? So?
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Okay, Well, the thing is, I guess they do have
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hyperspace tracking. But I guess she was trying to play.
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I mean, what else you get a sand situation like, yeah,
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we have the plans. Screw you, I guess think you
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have to lie. I think I'm gonna chot that up
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more to like desperation time. I don't know what you're
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talking about, because Vader is like in Episodfore, he is
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so adamant. I know the plans are there. I know
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they're there, like we inter, the rest of the.
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Crew is worried that he's not justified in taking her ship.
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Like I went back and watched those you knew his
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other officers who are on the ship with him and
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thus would have seen her ship break away.
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I don't want to spend right, I guess it doesn't
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bother me that much, but I get what you mean.
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My whole point is it doesn't bother me at all. Right,
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I think it's worth pointing out there. But like, the
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reason I bring it up now is that I think
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with more recent Star Wars content, people are bringing up
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things like that, But the fact is they've always.
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Been in Star Oh yeah, dude.
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Across the board, the Force is a dying religion that
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most of the people who are officers with Vader on
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the Death Star would have remembered fighting with the Jedi
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nineteen years ago, like.
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Yeah, And the solution to to first Tea gets blown
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up was build a second death Start. Can you imagine
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if they included a second Star Killer based episode nine?
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People would be up at arms state it's lazy story writing.
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That everyone wants the lego Star wars on the finished
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Death Star and everyone wants, you know, to talk about Yeah, yeah,
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I agree anyway.
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And because I will say I don't cry at movies often,
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at least I didn't back then. I've been in therapy
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for a while, in more touch with my feelings, and
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I do a lot more now. But when I realized
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that the plans had gone to Lea, and because it
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was pretty recently, I think after Carrie Fisher had passed
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away and she turned and just said that one word, Hope,
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I was bawling. It was just it was such a
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beautiful way of showing me this beautiful story that that
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was below the radar screen to everything we've seen in
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the movies, but was so vital to the movies. And
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then tying it together with just that one moment was
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just chef kids perfect.
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I don't she I don't think she had died before
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that movie tie, right before the last shiit I came out.
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Oh, you're right.
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I think it was just it was close.
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To her death time though it was less than a
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year from her dying. Yeah, that motion that would be
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also maybe very emotional.
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I don't think I cried at the end because I
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just expected everyone to.
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Actually that's a why what one death hit me harder
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than everyone else's And it's the one character's name I
282
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still cannot pronounce, is it sheer?
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Would hear it?
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Can hear it? Bruh? That got me.
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That that got me, like like sure it was that
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when when all the other characters died, But that got me,
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like his friend watching him die and then just you know,
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you know, I want the force the forces with me,
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and as he's holding him in his arms and what
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that was like a Jedi's death, even know he wasn't
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a Jedi, like very just like that was beautiful.
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Yeah, that shut me.
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Mm hmm. I think I just everything about the Guardians
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of the Wills because it it really reminded you that,
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guess there are the Jedi. But it's kind of like
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like you've got clergy in religion, but you've still got
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lots of believers worshippers, And clearly I think he's supposed
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to be just a tiny bit for sensitive, and it
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just felt to me like it it blurred the lines
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of that's not just a diad of like either a
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Jedi or you're not for sensitive at all, but there's
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lots of middle ground and people have these beliefs and
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all these kind of things.
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I also want to just very quickly point out that
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I don't want to Dowell on it.
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Either the biggest not Continuty eraor but the thing that
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bothered me in Rogue one, and it's not that big,
308
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but it's during the whole hallway scene.
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Yes, it was badass, it was freaking cool. I love
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it more than anything. Vader.
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All I had to do was use the force to
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grab the plans from the guy. Like he made it
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so much more dramatic than it had to be. Now,
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maybe he just couldn't see it, but you would think
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that like one of the most powerful force sensitive beings
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in the galaxy would able to figure out that the
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guy at the end of the hallway has the plans
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trying to open the door and could just eat it
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from him.
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I don't know, just my opinion.
321
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You know, there's lots of little things like that that
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don't really make any sense.
323
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Yeah, but we're just swept a while we are about
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to make it dramatic.
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I wonder, do you think that it's easier to get
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swept up in a movie than it is in a
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TV show? Yes, because of the TV show you just
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have more time, like in between episodes and all this
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kind of stuff.
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Absolutely.
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I mean I don't after I finished a movie, no
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matter what the no matter what is presented before me.
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In a Star Wars movie, after the movie ends, I
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think it's the greatest thing I've ever seen. Like even
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like episode nine. I you know, I'm an episode I
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apologize or I like it, But after it came out,
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I was like, oh my god, this is maybe the
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best thing I've ever seen. And it took me a
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little while and a few hours to like calm down
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from the high to start critiquing it. And you know,
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with a show, every episode only being you know, even
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it's an hour long episode, you have time to nitpick
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before the next one, and then more of the next
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one is more breakin versus the movie, you're just in
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it and you're like, holy shit, I'm just I just
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been just slapped across the face by the hand of God,
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and it takes the time to come down from that.
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I think one other reason that the movie hit me
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so hard, and I just want to say this and
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then we'll get into more like specifics about characters and
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pop points and stuff. The movie came out in December
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of twenty sixteen, which was shortly after the election of
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Donald Trump. And I'm not gonna get super political with this,
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but I'll just say that for a lot of folks
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like myself who were queer, or people of color, or
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disabled people or immigrants or anything like that, this was
357
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a really horrifyingly scary time, both about like the fact
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that he won, but also the fact of like coming
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to terms with the fact that so many people in
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our country were comfortable with the kind of things he
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was saying. And Star Wars has often been there for
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me at times that I really needed it, and I
363
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talked about the Force Awakens coming out right when I
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was coming out of like kind of the worst depression
365
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of my life. And this, I think was for a
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lot of people was in contact with we all talked
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about it and going to see it.
368
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It was a.
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Reminder of what rebellions can look like, and what fighting
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against tyranny looks like, and that sometimes the people you
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think are your allies are too scared to fight and
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don't believe you when they tell them how bad things are,
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and like, I've come to in time better understand where
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they're coming from. But that first time I watched it,
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I had just so much anger against all the people
376
00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.200
who were like, no, we shouldn't do this, the Aliance
377
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.119
should break up, or I don't believe you because you're
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a fellow, you're a criminal or whatever, and I think
379
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.799
it just the movie came out, it's such the perfect time, Aaron.
380
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I mean, not really on the political scene at the time.
381
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I was.
382
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I was too young to vote, yeah, and I was
383
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still very much under my parents' roof of thought, so
384
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I was pretty oblivious to the.
385
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Political and so social climate at the time.
386
00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:07.200
I was like, but that's good to know, Like that's
387
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.480
it's I feel like it is. It was a very
388
00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:13.279
poignant time, like looking back in history for that to
389
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:18.400
come out of just like such a time of just unrest,
390
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:20.279
like regardless of what side you were on.
391
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.960
Shit wasn't good. Like there was a lot of unrest.
392
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.799
There was a lot of like tension and just disquiet
393
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:34.319
and uncertainty, you know, in America specifically. And yeah, it
394
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.359
was interesting to have this different type of a story
395
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.119
and different type of almost different style of Star Wars
396
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.000
media brought and introduced to us in a time like that.
397
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.240
And the movie did really really well, And I think
398
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.880
that's why we kind of got as much content as
399
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.920
we have sense that is more similar to that movie.
400
00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.279
You know, there's more serious shows and things like that
401
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:05.359
that the sequel trilogy isn't, you know, serious and adult themed.
402
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.480
It is, but you know what I mean, it's GRITTI er,
403
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:10.440
it's darker, it's a little more realistic.
404
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:11.920
Yeah it was.
405
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.880
I think it was originally even darker, and they like
406
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:15.240
re rode a lot of it because it was too
407
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.440
dark from when if I remember the news reports at
408
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:17.839
the time.
409
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.920
Oh, I thought it went the other way. But either way,
410
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.119
what I do know is that my one anger about
411
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.599
it the first time I saw it is in the trailer,
412
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:27.079
I saw what I thought was gonna be the greatest
413
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.480
line ever, but they cut it when she's being interrogated
414
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.880
by the rebels, and she says, well, and they're asking
415
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.680
her about why she does all this messed up stuff,
416
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:37.079
and she says, well, this is a rebellion, isn't it.
417
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.039
I rebel. I just thought hilarity I said in the movie.
418
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:44.119
So you guys didn say that in the movie.
419
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.119
No she doesn't. Maybe she said the trailers.
420
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:47.920
Maybe I have just cand because I've seen that trailer
421
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.759
so many times, right, exactly, Yeah.
422
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.920
Rogue one, I also want to start, I was gonna
423
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:54.359
say quickly.
424
00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:56.119
I feel like I always to think it stands out
425
00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.759
because across the board in the original movies, you know,
426
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.720
the only like kind of ground you know.
427
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:05.799
In depth ground operation.
428
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:08.400
We see a little bit on hof but like really
429
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:10.400
like indoor and that's more of a stealth mission.
430
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:13.519
It's not like, you know, any intensive war like Relgue one.
431
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:15.720
We're seeing like in the air but also like deep
432
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:20.000
on the ground fighting and like what like what how
433
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.279
the rebellion rebellion girl warfare was working And we get
434
00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:26.720
to hear like Sagrera's ideologies with the different ideologies in
435
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.079
the infighting within the rebellion, like in that one meeting
436
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.640
where like they're all, you know, should we like actually
437
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:34.799
make this move orlways strong enough. It's just it's cool
438
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:38.559
to see, like, just like any other rebellion, it was
439
00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.920
so close a thread of failing. I mean, like it
440
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:48.079
basically took people rebelling within the rebellion to actually spark
441
00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:49.119
what we see.
442
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:53.000
In the original trilogy and all the boldness that you
443
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:54.480
know that they ended up taking on.
444
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:56.759
But it's cool to see how close it came to filming,
445
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:58.640
which I think there's also mirror the real world, which
446
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:04.039
is like those momentary decisions individual was making sacrifice that
447
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.160
that or the difference between like freedom or tyranny in
448
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.559
in this Ince's a galaxy mm hmm.
449
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.559
And I thought, again, I promised gonna get the characters,
450
00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:17.799
but what you brought up hit something else. I wanted
451
00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:20.559
to say. You know, at the time that we were
452
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:25.039
watching this movie and so thinking they're they're the way
453
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.119
that that warfare is being portrayed I think is very
454
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:34.200
intentionally linked to real world conflicts that people have a
455
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.680
lot of mixed feelings about. You know, that first battle
456
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:42.680
on Jetta where it's it's the Sagerera's rebels against the Empire,
457
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.119
and our heroes are kind of caught in the middle
458
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:46.599
and not really shure. They kind of shoot people on
459
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:49.480
both sides at one point. You know, that was done
460
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.759
in like Jetta city looks mountainous and and kind of
461
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.680
desert like and it's all very brown, and they talk
462
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.519
about religious fanatics being the attackers. That very much for
463
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.920
people who were watching that time, you know, brought to
464
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.359
mind the images we were seeing on our TVs about
465
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.319
Afghanistan and Iraq and the conflict's happening there, and then
466
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:12.279
in that battance scar iff to me when we see
467
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.200
all the shots of these like gun ships with big
468
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.279
open spaces on the side that people are shooting machine
469
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.160
gun type things out of, and troops like jumping out
470
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.079
to join in the fight. You know, I've seen that
471
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:25.240
in a million Vietnam wis like, because that looked so
472
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.920
much like the Vietnam helicopters. So it just seemed a
473
00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.960
really intentional way of like Star Wars. Originally it was like,
474
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.279
you know, the heroes against the Nazis, and that's really
475
00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:36.920
clear cut, but this is a lot more like I
476
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:38.799
think the Empire is still clearly very very very very
477
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.079
very very very very back. But like me, it's the
478
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.680
idea that you have to make more compromises, but then
479
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.359
you also have to question those as part of warfare.
480
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.920
And or the series took that and really ran with it,
481
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:51.440
and that's how we got one of the better Star
482
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.359
Wars series as well.
483
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.400
Also, I know we're gonna get the characters very, very lasting.
484
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.039
The cinematography in this movie, by the way, is my favorite,
485
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.480
well maybe my favorite for the Last Jedi, but it's
486
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:03.599
one of the best. I mean, I just that one
487
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.559
frame that one of the X Wing coming out of hyperspace,
488
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:08.799
where like the camera angles on the outside of it
489
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:12.200
rent free in my head. Or like the sweeping scenes
490
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:15.160
on the first planet with the black sand beaches that
491
00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.640
was filmed in Iceland where they first go after Galen
492
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:23.559
and little Jen little uh Jen Erso. Just so much
493
00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:26.920
of it is so like sweeping and giant and just
494
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.680
to me, it felt like the best that Star Wars
495
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:31.440
could be, and it felt like Rogue One to me
496
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:34.680
felt like the Originals original trilogy was made in the
497
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.440
modern era. This is what it would have looked like.
498
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.359
This is what like George Lucas kind of saw on
499
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:42.160
his head from my opinion, and just didn't have the
500
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:44.440
technology at the time to make it like that, but
501
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:46.759
like it just to me, it felt like the most
502
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.519
true modern Star Wars film that felt like what the
503
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:54.720
originals felt like, as far as like cinematography, scheming, everything
504
00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:56.640
down to the fact that, like in the space Battle,
505
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:58.839
they actually when they were appearing into the cockpits, they.
506
00:24:58.759 --> 00:24:59.960
Actually used.
507
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:06.640
A delighted cockpit frame from a New Hope A fun fact,
508
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.440
like actually filmed in nineteen seventy seven. One of those
509
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:11.680
cockpit frames are from nineteen seventy seven.
510
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:14.680
Yeah. Cool. Well, I don't know. I thought it was
511
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:19.880
super cool. I love show like that, so I think
512
00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:20.160
the most.
513
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:21.720
There's a lot of great characters, but I want to
514
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.119
start with Casie the Andor because I already commented on
515
00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:27.480
how like this is a hero who the first thing
516
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:29.640
we see him do is shoot his own ally in
517
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:32.880
the back in order to allow himself to escape of that. Aaron,
518
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:34.720
what was that like for you? Seeing that? And like
519
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:36.039
can seeing him become this hero?
520
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.880
I'm gonna be honest, it did not mean anything to me.
521
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.519
The first time I watched it, I was like, woll shit, stuff,
522
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.000
this is war you know, Like I just I feel
523
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.319
like I've seen so many like spy movies and stuff
524
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:54.160
like that, which which is what this felt like. You know, like,
525
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.319
at the end of the day, he's a spy. He's
526
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.720
not necessarily like a ground soldier. He's a spy.
527
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.160
And so it didn't really.
528
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.839
Take me by surprise because it's just a character that
529
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.359
you don't know yet, and it just kind of like,
530
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:10.079
I feel like set the tone of the movie for
531
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:13.079
me was just like, oh, okay, so it's not heroes
532
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:13.640
and villains.
533
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:15.839
It's different. It's a great world.
534
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:18.960
And we're gonna learn more about this character and kind
535
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.359
of what motivates him because it is a very interesting scene,
536
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:27.640
Like you see, it's not not something Cassiane wants to do, yeah,
537
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.200
but never does he think he's not going to do it.
538
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:35.720
At the same time, and the fantastic acting of Diego
539
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.400
Luna because he does it. But then for a moment
540
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:39.880
there's a sort of sense of like, oh my god,
541
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.799
I can't believe I did that, and it's just so.
542
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:44.640
But that it's also at the trauma of how to
543
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:46.400
do this before. So I'm gonna move on, like I'm
544
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:47.920
gonna take that minute. Then I'm just like I have
545
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:48.559
to keep going.
546
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:49.400
I just keep moving.
547
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.559
And we see now, especially in and or what he
548
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:57.920
went through to make him like that. Yeah, I think
549
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.279
when I saw it, I also didn't have an initial
550
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.599
reaction was like damn, Like that was just so immediate.
551
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:07.799
He was like, don't worry, don't worry death, like God
552
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:11.319
cold blooded. It was my first instinct, and then as
553
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:13.079
we went on, I still kind of thought he was
554
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.920
a from my perspective, he seemed almost a little bit
555
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.440
too like rigid in the rules, like the I think
556
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:22.640
the rebellion is at its worst when it's super strict
557
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.640
about rules, and I think that Jin really helped him
558
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:28.640
kind of open.
559
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.279
His eyes more and get loxer with those rules.
560
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:33.759
It's funny though, because in the Indoor series he's really
561
00:27:33.799 --> 00:27:36.160
lacks with them, and he kind of falls more in
562
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.039
line with it over time. So I'm very curious to
563
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:42.160
see how season two ties Rogue one end or to
564
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:48.759
season one Cassid Indoor, if that made sense, but just
565
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:50.880
a difference, Like I know, he seem way more cavalier
566
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.799
in the show, and then in the beginning of Rogue
567
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.880
one he seems very like I'm gonna like just I'm pissed,
568
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.279
I will I will do dirty shit when I have
569
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:01.160
to get my hands dre but I'm going to follow
570
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:05.119
the rules and the orders of my superiors within this
571
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.279
military hierarchy it's been created, and it doesn't seem like
572
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:14.119
something that, like and orphication, one would necessarily do. Maybe
573
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.640
the prison broke him, it would break me.
574
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.799
M So all right, moving past that one moment, though, Aaron,
575
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:21.319
what else do you think about him as a character.
576
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:28.640
I've always really liked Cassiean, and not just because he's pretty.
577
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:32.240
That helps, seeing that I was a teenage girl when
578
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:37.039
this movie came out, But I just I liked how
579
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.680
determined and almost like sure of himself. He is, Like
580
00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:44.240
he's very unsure about a lot of shit, but he
581
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.559
really fakes it till he makes it, you know, like
582
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.480
that he taught me something in life. I'm great at
583
00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:54.400
that now I'm great at bullshitting, you know. And so
584
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:58.599
I just feel like it's it's cool to see a
585
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.240
character that has such emotion depth, and that comes from
586
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.680
Diego Luna being such a good actor that he can
587
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.160
portray all these things about like being a hardened criminal,
588
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.960
you know, willing to do criminal end quotes, a hardened rebel,
589
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:16.039
willing and ready to do whatever is necessary, but also
590
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:21.680
someone who does deep down like he has this like ope,
591
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.000
you know, like that's why he's in it, and he's
592
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.480
willing to, like you said, Alex kind of like push
593
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.519
past the rules that he is so strongly set in
594
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.000
at the beginning of the movie, because he starts to
595
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.920
come along to Jin's side of thinking. And I think
596
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:44.640
that the two characters separately very incredible characters. But I
597
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:46.759
feel like they were really and of course they were
598
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:48.799
designed to play off each other really well.
599
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:50.200
And that's kind of the point of the movie.
600
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:54.960
But it was just so well done how those two
601
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:01.359
characters interacted from start to finish, just this clashing of
602
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:05.519
these two really strong personalities and kind of where that
603
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.119
left them.
604
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:12.519
Yeah. Yeah, I thought the interplay between them was just
605
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:15.960
so well done, particularly because there was never really a
606
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:17.680
moment where it felt like one of them was clearly
607
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.079
right one of them was clearly wrong.
608
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:19.599
You know.
609
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:23.279
Like I did feel like I wanted Jin to want
610
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:26.400
to join up, and I hated that she kind of
611
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.279
had this very cynical attitude. But then like when she said,
612
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:32.119
you know, when someone asked asks her like do you
613
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.079
really want to see the imperial flag flying over the
614
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.400
whole galaxy? And she says, it doesn't matter if you
615
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.880
never look up. It reminded me, like, again, going back
616
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.000
to the conversations I was having, there were people I
617
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:45.000
knew who were in really bad situations who were like,
618
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.119
it's not going to matter to me, Like I'm already,
619
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:48.799
you know, unable to get a job, unable to get
620
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:52.000
any kind of you know, things like that, And I
621
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:53.759
I'm not gonna get into politics, like voting or not,
622
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.759
like I don't think I should vote, but like it,
623
00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:59.759
I understand the level of hopelessness and the level of
624
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.039
everything is out to get me. So why do I
625
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.319
care who it is who's holding the whip that's attacking me?
626
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:06.680
You know?
627
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:12.480
And that wrapped into the conversation of hope and and
628
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:14.039
the fact that I feel like on some level it
629
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.440
doesn't have to be completely resolved. You know that that
630
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:21.359
part of what Cassian and Jim do is just to
631
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:23.319
kind of say, like I see you, and I see
632
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:25.400
where you're coming from, and I get where you're coming from,
633
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:27.720
and we're working together, and we don't have to agree
634
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.000
on this entirely because we believe in hope and we
635
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:30.960
believe in getting this is done.
636
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:35.640
Then you fk two one of the funniest droids in
637
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:36.319
the galaxy.
638
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:42.440
That dude was the greatest comedic humor actually high key.
639
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:44.720
Maybe I was most emotional when he died and that
640
00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:45.400
was Android.
641
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:49.599
Yeah, yeah, because he was so funny. I was so
642
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:54.279
attached to him. And then he sacrifices himself for Gin
643
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:58.440
and Cassian in such a powerful way. After, I might add,
644
00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:03.519
my man takes down so many Stormtroopers.
645
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:08.240
He was like not messing around. But when he takes a.
646
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.799
Bunch of like his own droid.
647
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:13.759
Types, right, like he's one to take his memory.
648
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:14.680
Whipping his own ass.
649
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.359
Yeah, but I will say that like when he died,
650
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:19.000
I knew no one was surviving.
651
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:21.440
Yeah, I just knew it.
652
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:23.680
I was like, I think that's what it started to
653
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:27.880
get to me too, because because body died first, I believe, right,
654
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:29.759
Pilot Yeah yeah.
655
00:32:29.799 --> 00:32:32.519
And then was it Cheert in Baze or was it
656
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:33.359
K two next?
657
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:35.200
Shoot?
658
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:36.880
I think at then it's K two.
659
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:38.920
I was like, I'm starting to get a bad feeling.
660
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.039
And the K two died and I was like, Okay, guys,
661
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.400
this isn't really funny anymore.
662
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.240
This come on, guys, this isn't funny. I want you
663
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.799
to stop killing my characters. Guys, this isn't it's not
664
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.640
cute anymore.
665
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:49.319
I get it.
666
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:51.759
We had to have some emotional loss, like we're.
667
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.319
They're gonna be okay, right, Alex, you missed this, but
668
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.200
I covered that. The first time I watched this movie,
669
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:00.640
I was so truly and genuinely naive. I believe until
670
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.519
do You eleventh hour that someone was gonna fly in
671
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:04.640
and save cast Enagen.
672
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:07.000
I thought, I believe you.
673
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:10.319
Everything I know about you makes me believe that you
674
00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:11.640
believe that to the last moment.
675
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:13.240
That's hurtful.
676
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:15.319
Yeah, you're just an optimist.
677
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:18.599
I think I was coming from the exact opposite perspective
678
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:23.519
I was. I went in thinking like, all right, well,
679
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:25.480
I know this sounds dark, but I hope they kill
680
00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:27.839
everyone off because they're else, like, we're gonna have more
681
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.039
plot holes of like why didn't those people continue to
682
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:33.920
do good things? And I was a little bit cynical
683
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.279
like that, and then it happened the way it did,
684
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.559
and I was like, oh my god, I am they
685
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.039
did what I thought they were gonna do, But I'm
686
00:33:41.079 --> 00:33:43.200
sobbing about it. I'm not cynical about some slightest. I
687
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:44.920
just again thought that was so brilliantly done.
688
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.000
I also learned why they recon this.
689
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:52.279
But in episode five on Hath the ship that finds
690
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.480
Luke in the middle of the ice desert tundra.
691
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:56.240
That's the word tundra.
692
00:33:56.680 --> 00:34:01.839
It's called Rogue two and it's because again in retrospective canon,
693
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:05.799
Rogue one, as a moniker was retired across the entire
694
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.320
rebellion in honor of the Rogue one soldiers who died,
695
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.679
and so Rogue two is the is the earliest columber
696
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:13.239
they can use.
697
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:15.440
That's so sweet.
698
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.760
Yeah, this movie hit hard. But can we before we
699
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.320
talk about Jen because I don't have to talk about Jin.
700
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.119
Can we talk about orson chronic, Let's.
701
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:26.039
Talk about Crinic.
702
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:29.760
Because he's one of my favorite characters. Such a bastard,
703
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:33.679
I think he yes, but he embodies to me the
704
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:39.840
Empire like a really smart guy, really intelligent, manipulative as hell,
705
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.119
greedy as hell, and like always wants more, never satisfied,
706
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:48.199
always trying to play the different parties, like trying to
707
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:52.360
choose his way with the Emperor, and then like always
708
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.639
kind of butt her kind of like you know, I
709
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.159
don't know, like just always but her about everything and
710
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.679
like constantly up you know up against it with Grandma's Tarkin,
711
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:03.960
but having to social moves to him because he's also
712
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.639
a superior. I mean, Aaron can't see my name, but
713
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:09.480
say my name in all caps is my achievement.
714
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.280
That is where we stand today, My achievement, not yours.
715
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:19.400
And Grandma' Targan's like, sucks the stuff, buddy, This.
716
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:21.639
Is how it works, damn.
717
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.599
And like, I just he's such an interesting character to me,
718
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:26.960
and I liked seeing him built out in the like
719
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.039
you know, some of the Throng books, and but I
720
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.719
just I'm I think he's such an interesting character because
721
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:35.199
he really doesn't body the gluttony for the empire is
722
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.679
and the.
723
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:39.760
The it's like, you have so many smart people.
724
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:44.159
By every retrospect, the empire should have lasted much longer
725
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.039
than it did, but because of the greed of people
726
00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:49.280
like Krenic up until the moment of his death. And
727
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:51.639
his death in that movie is so poetic, like that
728
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.840
scene of him just seeing the glow of the death
729
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.000
star in his eyes.
730
00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:57.880
Before he just gets blown to oblivion.
731
00:35:58.639 --> 00:35:59.119
Mm hmm.
732
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:03.079
All his own talk about being hoist upon your literal
733
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.920
own petar literally like, and I think what I love
734
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:10.159
about him is everything you're saying. You know, we've talked
735
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:12.800
in other episodes about how that's what the Emperor wants.
736
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:15.199
The Emperor wants to be playing these people off against
737
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.800
each other. And I think the emfor though, he does
738
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:20.079
want true believers. But one thing the system where that
739
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:22.760
he has really rewards is ladder climbers, and I think
740
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.559
that's why and Rieky and I on Superhero Ethics, but
741
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:28.639
it's connected to Hero'll probably put it in this feed
742
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:32.719
at some point as well. Did a whole episode about
743
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:35.559
Ai and we talked about how we felt about Tarkin
744
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:38.760
in this and that's a long story, and I will
745
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.440
say I'm generally ANTIAI of those kind of ways, but
746
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:44.920
I thought like Tarkan was the perfect person to be
747
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:48.840
against Krenic here because Tarkan is a true believer and
748
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:50.440
like the book that we read that we talked about
749
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:53.360
on our book Club episode. By the way, if you
750
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:55.119
want to read that, if you want to listen to that,
751
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:56.920
become a member. It's only five dollars a month, think
752
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.760
five dollars a year. All the information is in the
753
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:03.760
show notes. But Tarkin truly believes the galaxy will be
754
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:06.639
a better place and will not experience the chaos and
755
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.599
horrible deaths of the Clone Wars if the Empire rules it.
756
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.639
I don't think Krenic gives it, Damn. I think Kranic
757
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:20.679
is only out for Crenic, and Krenic like, it's like
758
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:24.000
we're like Tarkian is immoral. He's amoral in that. Like
759
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.119
to me, one of the most hauntingly evil lines is
760
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:30.800
when we're seeing all these people, see the destruction of
761
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:33.440
Jedda and all the death, and He's looking at it
762
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:37.079
from space and just says, isn't it beautiful? Hea'se all.
763
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.000
He just does not see the lives of the people
764
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:42.039
he's crushing underneath him. He doesn't see the cause or
765
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.480
anything like that. He just cares about, you know. He
766
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.679
wants to people. He wants to get the pat on
767
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:49.239
the back from Vader. He wants to, you know, be
768
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:55.400
to beat out I want to say, Alan Tunic or Peter.
769
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:59.719
He wants to he wants to beat out Tarkin. He
770
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:02.760
wants to be like top dog in the Empire. And
771
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.480
I just I love it because it's so different than
772
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.559
the other villains we get and the Empire has both.
773
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:13.320
And I want to say, if you guys love those characters.
774
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:15.760
You would eat up the book catalyst.
775
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:20.199
I know Danielle's mentioned that before, but basically it's the
776
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.039
Galen Erso story and it overlaps very heavily with the
777
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.119
or Syncretic story, and you get a lot of the
778
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:28.440
behind the scenes.
779
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:31.039
Of the way Krenic and Tarkan go at each other
780
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:34.559
for years, like ten years leading up to this film.
781
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:37.280
So it's it's a really good read.
782
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:39.920
I mean, I listened to it on Audible, but it's
783
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.599
it's one of the I mean, as far as Star
784
00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:45.079
Wars books go. It's a little slower paced, I feel like,
785
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.280
but I still really enjoyed it. There's a lot of
786
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.719
good world building and if you like political machinations, that's
787
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:52.719
the book catalyst.
788
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:54.320
And I mean it's also I mean, look, we even
789
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.800
see in the Throng books, I mean, Critic and Thron
790
00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.079
are like quietly going at it for years as well,
791
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:01.000
because Throng wants all them money devoted to his Tie
792
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:03.400
Defender project, while Crodic launched all the money devoted to
793
00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:05.840
the Death Star, and they're both trying to convince the
794
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.760
Emperor of it their project is the best option.
795
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.719
And who was in the end who's probably right as
796
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:18.079
he always is, as he always.
797
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:19.800
It turns out having a lot of bureaucratic infighting is
798
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:21.400
not actually good for her bureaucracy.
799
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:23.599
Nod could not help himself.
800
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:24.519
Yeah.
801
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.400
I also think one of the lines that again told
802
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:30.639
me early on, this is not gonna be your normal
803
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.639
Star Wars. One thing we don't get very often in
804
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:36.800
Star Wars is sarcasm. Like there's a little bit especially
805
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:39.440
with like Han and Leah bantering back and forth. Like
806
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.559
the villains especially have always been so straight ahead. And
807
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:51.800
so when Galen tries to say that Lilah his wife Lira, Yeah, yeah.
808
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.000
When Galen also tries to say that his wife is
809
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.719
dead and Kradik is like, oh, I'm so sorry, it
810
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.960
clearly doesn't seem to believe it. And then she shows up.
811
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:01.920
He's like, oh, look at this, she's back from the grave.
812
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.039
I was just I busted out laughing. It was hilarious,
813
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:10.880
and it was it was so cold, and it was
814
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:13.159
just so perfect with that character, and I loved it.
815
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.039
I agree, Yeah, that was that also got me, and like,
816
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:20.280
it's just he's so he's so manipulating people, he's so cruel.
817
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:22.840
I mean, the way he killed all the lead scientists
818
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:28.880
in front of Galen on on Irado. Just oh my god,
819
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:33.360
he I just I really liked his portrayal and his
820
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.719
look too, which is like clean white ice.
821
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.000
B uniform and oh.
822
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.639
Yeah, it's just and I agree that the Tarken you know,
823
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:46.159
I mean, did you guys see that the Lucas was
824
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:48.360
being sued over the use of the Turkan image in
825
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:50.119
this movie.
826
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.639
Yeahs like it's it's in court right now.
827
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:57.519
Basically like Peter Cushing's best friend he like signed over
828
00:40:57.679 --> 00:40:59.360
like red Peter Cushions had over her rights to his
829
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:01.920
image and was like, no one can use your likeness
830
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:05.079
unless my best friend here signs off on it. But Lucas,
831
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:07.159
no one like reached out to Cushing's family. They had
832
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.079
given their blessing time off on it. They'd even given
833
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:12.239
them money to his agent, Like they went through all
834
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:16.880
these channels, but there's one contract. Basically like now almost
835
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.039
ten years later, is trying to like sue them is interesting.
836
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:20.760
But point is I was gonna say that I actually
837
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.960
really do like the fact that they like I think
838
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:26.320
that was one of the more successful uses of the
839
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:29.039
deep fake technology. I thought it looked just like Peter
840
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:31.159
kushing and it felt menacing.
841
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.880
I felt Tarkan's menace, and I've.
842
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:36.119
Contented my whole life, and he's one of my favorite
843
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:39.079
Star Wars thrones because of how like just it's like
844
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:43.679
the really proper cold, menacing smart type and him and
845
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:46.320
Krenics in a room together. That scene on the bridge,
846
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.000
like washing the dust, start be built is so good.
847
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:50.079
It's good.
848
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:52.159
I can't imagine what we like to be an officer
849
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.639
in that room, like mommy and daddy are fighting and
850
00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:55.559
it's terrifying.
851
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.000
And then like and then Krenick pushes his luck with
852
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.000
Vader and we get one of the dumb but funniest
853
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:07.239
dad joke lines, be careful not to choke choke Aspirations director.
854
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:10.840
I was like, bro, no shot Anakin who is not
855
00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:13.320
knowing dads out here making dad jokes, like.
856
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.360
Especially because it's a double pun, like the choke while
857
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:20.079
he's being choked, but also aspirations which is another word
858
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:22.880
for breath, also for like aspiring things.
859
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:26.440
And we get that after like the most cold, badass
860
00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:29.639
seeing him be put back together out of the back
861
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:34.239
to tank and like the slow shadow casting like large
862
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:36.719
out casting on Krenick and then he ends up with
863
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.039
that silly ass joke, like I.
864
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:44.000
Said, but then then you spend two seconds going oh god, writers,
865
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:48.119
why and then you're after there so you don't.
866
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:53.719
I spent probably thirty seconds going hell fucking yeah, that's
867
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:54.320
a great joke.
868
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:00.880
It's a great joke. Anakin would totally say that, would totally.
869
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:03.360
Say that later would not, but Anakin a thousand percent
870
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:05.400
I could see him saying it to Ahsoka.
871
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:09.159
Like totally would. All right, let's let's get back to
872
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:11.239
talking about Jin though, so we started talked talked about her,
873
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:12.400
but like, what did you guys think of her as
874
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.719
a character man and bestually as the mean.
875
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:18.480
Protagonist badass as.
876
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.880
Lucy Jones was a perfectly cast character actress for that,
877
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:28.000
I think that she portrayed the like you just said earlier, Matthew,
878
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:29.679
Like how she had that whinerly on of it's not
879
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:31.639
a problem if you don't look up at the perial flag.
880
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:32.159
It's like the.
881
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:36.239
Portrays this perfect mix of like clearly had hope in
882
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:39.199
the past, it was shattered, is beaten down and broken
883
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:42.559
early in the movie, but like Rebel was in her
884
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:47.800
own ways, and like she is driven initially by selfish reasons,
885
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:51.159
like wants to say, father wants her own freedom, but
886
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:53.760
slowly like buys into the premise and the concepts. And
887
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.880
I think that like that transition, that character growth was
888
00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:01.119
portrayed so well. But at the end, she's like all
889
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:04.880
in and she's like emotional, she's connected with everyone, she helps,
890
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:10.079
he helps indoor Cassie grow. I thought she was such
891
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.280
a great catalyst and a great especially early on Foil
892
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:15.920
for the way Cassian was where that she played off
893
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.159
each other so well and then kind of grew together
894
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:21.679
to the point where, like at the very end, like
895
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:26.119
they were so close. And when I first saw the
896
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:29.760
movie first saw the movie, I wanted them to kiss,
897
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.719
and since then I have no desire. I think it's
898
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:34.679
so much better without any sort of kiss at the end,
899
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.239
because it's not what it's about. There was not even
900
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:39.280
if there was a slight bit of like romance there,
901
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:41.360
it wasn't what it was about. It was about their relationship,
902
00:44:41.360 --> 00:44:45.480
their growth together as people. And like that hug to me,
903
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:47.800
if it was win more emotional as you're dying and
904
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:50.519
it's like, I don't know, I just it's interesting how
905
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:54.880
I saw that differently when I was nineteen twenty nineteen
906
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.920
than I do obviously now it was a more formed
907
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.159
adult with a fully formed frontal court.
908
00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:03.280
You know under thirty adun't.
909
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.599
I have a full brain now at least?
910
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.920
Okay, Aaron, what do you think about Jim?
911
00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:14.679
Oh my god.
912
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:16.800
I always loved her because she just doesn't take people's
913
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:20.599
ship and she just is always down for a fight.
914
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:22.840
Like it's it's so funny.
915
00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:24.480
I feel like the first couple of times we see her,
916
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:27.159
she just keeps getting snatched by people and ending up
917
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:29.360
like an interrogation situations and she's.
918
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:32.239
Like, ah, fuck you, like yeah, fit them, and they're
919
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:32.960
like broach.
920
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:37.920
The fact that on the prison planet, like she attacks
921
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:41.000
the person who's rescuing her, just so much about her character.
922
00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.280
Yeah you're being.
923
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:54.039
Yeah. No, she is a stronger independent woman, heavy emphasis
924
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:54.800
on the independent.
925
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:56.920
That's the way she likes it. It's the way she
926
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.599
wants it to be.
927
00:45:59.000 --> 00:45:59.519
Yeah.
928
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:02.320
And she fights the rest of the rebels for most
929
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:05.079
of the movie as they try and like bring her
930
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:05.800
into their fold.
931
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:08.280
They're like, yes, so let's be a family. She's like,
932
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:09.320
fuck you.
933
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:12.440
Guys, And it was like where'd you get that blaster?
934
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:17.000
I found it, Give it to me, Give it to me.
935
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:21.760
No, it's like and she was like, I need a weapon,
936
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:25.679
fuck off, and he's like, all right, whatever, Like yeah,
937
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:26.880
I love.
938
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:28.920
It so much. And I have a head canon that
939
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.599
like someone told Leah more about her because like the
940
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:33.960
person Leah grows up to be in terms of being
941
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:35.880
so but I mean she was super feisty inepenity I
942
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:37.519
as a kid too, Like I just wish the two
943
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.239
of them had hung out sometime because I think it
944
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:43.440
would be along so well. And what I think is
945
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.239
amazing about her character, both how she's written and then
946
00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:50.239
also what Felicity Jones does with her is you know,
947
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.599
this was a time when we were starting to like
948
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:54.639
be like, we don't have to always write like the
949
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:57.559
women as like the you know person who the maiden
950
00:46:57.559 --> 00:46:59.920
in despair who needs to get rescued, Like let's write
951
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.440
bass women. But so then it was a lot of
952
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:05.320
male writers writing badass women who never really had any
953
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:09.480
character development beyond that. And seeing that she is super badass,
954
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:14.679
that she's super like unwilling to trust anyone and she's
955
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:17.719
going to have this hard exterior so much, but that
956
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:20.639
she also then makes herself so vulnerable in terms of
957
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:24.239
like she really feels so abandoned. First by her father
958
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:26.559
and her mother, but then also by Saw, like kind
959
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:29.199
of like the same thing happened to her twice, is
960
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:31.000
that she went and hide and then no one came
961
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:32.480
for her, or like the people who she wanted to
962
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:33.639
come for her didn't come for her.
963
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:34.519
And just.
964
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:38.599
The way I saw that vulnerability and her scenes with
965
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:42.199
both her dad and with Saw, and how that it
966
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:44.519
didn't feel like it was like didn't match with the
967
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:46.760
hard exterior, it made it sense like, oh, yeah, this
968
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:48.599
is what she's kind of hold on to. So of
969
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.559
course she has this exterior of like f off, no
970
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:54.719
one come at me because I don't need you. It
971
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:56.559
just it worked so perfectly for her.
972
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:02.719
Yeah, I agree, And like, I also just think it
973
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:06.199
was cool to like see you know flashbacks to young
974
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:08.559
young Jin at the actress who played kid Jennel.
975
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:10.119
So it was really good at showing.
976
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:15.920
Like the fear and like what sparked her like drive
977
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:18.559
later in life, like her love of her father, that
978
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:19.599
connection they shared.
979
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:22.480
And I don't know, I think I think it the
980
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.239
whole movie really does do Jin justice.
981
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:26.639
M h.
982
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:28.519
Yeah, gone to the final moment like.
983
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:32.639
They've put a they put a whatever, see if you
984
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:35.159
put a fuse in your in your big machine. We're
985
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:38.400
gonna blow it up, so fuck off Creniche.
986
00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:45.440
Like I also love that at the end, like there's
987
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:48.320
an old expression. There's no Zella like a convert, And
988
00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:51.119
it's kind of like all the rebels keep talking about
989
00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:54.199
hope and talking about taking the chance, and she's the
990
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:56.559
most against it, and then at the end she's kind
991
00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:57.880
of like, wait a minute, isn't this what you guys
992
00:48:57.920 --> 00:48:59.800
all said you wanted. Like she's the one who believes
993
00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.199
there their stuff even more than they do, and she
994
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:05.559
gets them to believe in it again. Like just I
995
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:07.320
think this movie's one of the ones that made me
996
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.360
cry the most, which is interesting because it's such like
997
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:11.440
just an action movie in so many ways, but it
998
00:49:11.480 --> 00:49:14.960
has her character work and like the way she goes
999
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:16.760
on that journey and the way that she needs to
1000
00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:19.519
be the one to inspire the rest of them when
1001
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:21.119
everyone else is trying to be like, hey, maybe hope
1002
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.880
isn't a bad thing. I just loved it so much.
1003
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:26.280
I mean I feel like that's the thing with her
1004
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.239
character is like, yeah, the other rebels believed it and
1005
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:33.599
they preached it, but she lived it. Yeah, she's the
1006
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.639
one who actually did that shit, and then she looked
1007
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:38.960
around like you said, like, isn't this what you guys
1008
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:43.199
were talking about? Like come on, And I think that's
1009
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:46.280
something that's so true in today's day and ages, and
1010
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.159
I'm guilty of it.
1011
00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:48.440
I say shit that.
1012
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.960
I wish I could do more to back or that
1013
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:53.000
I should be doing more to back, Like I think
1014
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:55.639
all of us have things that we could stand stronger
1015
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:58.679
on or be kinder about. You know, nobody's a perfect person,
1016
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:01.679
but I think it's like it's a cool lesson to
1017
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:04.320
look back on and be like, even this person who
1018
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:08.039
was the most dissillusion and the most against them can
1019
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:11.960
do kind of like a full about face turn when
1020
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.599
it's for the right reasons, yeah, and when it really matters.
1021
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:17.880
Yeah.
1022
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:19.280
And the fact that not just that she does it,
1023
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.519
but then she inspires not only the people who were
1024
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:24.280
with her, but all these others who, as Cassian says,
1025
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:26.880
we've all done terrible things but ready to do something better.
1026
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.199
Can we talk about sow quick?
1027
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:35.880
Yeah, let's talk about when did I want to hear
1028
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:37.719
Aaron go off on this? But I just want to say,
1029
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:39.679
this was the first time in Star Wars. I think
1030
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:43.039
the first time for a lot of franchises where a
1031
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:47.639
character created for animation then was translated into live action,
1032
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:49.360
and I think that is so awesome.
1033
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.039
Yeah. No, I as a girl who grew up on
1034
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:57.000
the Clone Wars Sagerere was always hot, So I will
1035
00:50:57.039 --> 00:50:59.079
be honest, this was disappointing.
1036
00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:05.519
Not an incredible man, super awesome, But he's way older
1037
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:08.719
than I had, you know, imagine saw to be, you know,
1038
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:11.159
because the Clone Wars was twenty years earlier.
1039
00:51:11.559 --> 00:51:12.559
That's the way age works.
1040
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:13.239
Uh.
1041
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.159
So I was a little disappointed. I was hoping for daddy.
1042
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:21.559
We got more father or a strange uncle.
1043
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:24.880
Straight. It was.
1044
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:29.119
It's so interesting to see how strong his convictions and
1045
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:30.239
as a Clone Wars lover.
1046
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:32.760
Just how much he has.
1047
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:38.159
Warped over time m hm, and how he still believes
1048
00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:42.079
that he's just as extreme as he was in the beginning,
1049
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:45.199
which I do want to put it out there.
1050
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:46.440
He was always an extremist.
1051
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:50.679
He literally helped raise what would be considered a terrorist group.
1052
00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:51.639
You know, so like.
1053
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:53.880
Slay.
1054
00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:58.719
But yeah, I really loved seeing him in live action.
1055
00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:05.320
The fucking brainsucky alien that it was scary. When I
1056
00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.000
finished watching the movie the first time, I was.
1057
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:09.320
Like, maybe I don't like sucker was so much that
1058
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:10.159
was kind of scary.
1059
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:13.440
I didn't really like that poor gullet.
1060
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:15.599
Yeah.
1061
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:19.199
I also was like fangrowing when when I first saw
1062
00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:20.679
a song live action, because I also grew up in
1063
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:22.719
the Colne Wars and was like so freaking excited to
1064
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:25.480
see Coln Wars character brought into live action. But I
1065
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:28.119
was like, damn age has not done my boy well,
1066
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:33.199
like not just physically, but like mentally, he seemed like
1067
00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:34.760
he had a few screws loose. And then he brought
1068
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.039
out this you know, bogull it this weird freaking thing
1069
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:40.159
to suck on, you know.
1070
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:47.639
Bogie's bogie body whatever brain, And I'm like, what is
1071
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:48.639
happening right now?
1072
00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:51.039
Like this is the guy who, like you know, was
1073
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.239
too cool and like what you know back in the day,
1074
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.400
and now he's like living in a cave with a squid,
1075
00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:05.039
Like I so untrusting of everyone. It's so paranoid, Like
1076
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:06.760
I get it. Like he was so extreme. He was
1077
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:10.000
so extreme, and he really believed he was so extreme,
1078
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:13.239
and we believed that, like what he was doing was.
1079
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:15.480
Necessary for their building to succeed. And I still believe
1080
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:18.519
so firmly in the cause. In the end, but.
1081
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:23.559
Damn Homeboy was was on one in that in those
1082
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:25.880
scenes he was off his rocket a little bit, but
1083
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:28.119
it was a little badass to the way he ends
1084
00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:30.840
his life and he pulls out his respirator and.
1085
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:37.639
He's just like, take me, take me. Yeah, I loved
1086
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:39.159
everything about him. And I'll say I came from the
1087
00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:41.280
opposite perspective. I had never seen the Clone Wars when
1088
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:44.199
I watched this movie. This movie wound up being part
1089
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:45.840
of what inspired me to go ahead and watch the
1090
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:48.000
Clone Wars.
1091
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:50.440
So again, Clore started in two thousand and eight.
1092
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:56.360
Matthew, Yeah, but then he did ye Wars.
1093
00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:58.840
That's fair. That just is wild to me to think.
1094
00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:00.679
Well, it was also remember what I said before, and again,
1095
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:02.400
I'm not this isn't my attack. This is just where
1096
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.079
I came from. I stopped carrying about Star Wars after
1097
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:09.440
the prequels because they broke my heart search and just
1098
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:11.599
everywhere to go Star Wars were some well blind and
1099
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:14.599
mocked and all this kind of stuff. So yeah, and
1100
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:16.320
so I went back. And people have been telling me
1101
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:18.239
to watch the Clone Wars for a while, especially Paul
1102
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:21.679
and wanting to, but even without having seen them beforehand,
1103
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:23.960
Like to me, this is always the goal is like
1104
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:26.599
you want the people who've seen the character before and
1105
00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:29.079
the other medium to love it, but the character people
1106
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:30.880
who haven't to love it as well. And I just
1107
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:33.440
I thought everything about him was perfect. And then we
1108
00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:35.159
saw the character in the Clone Wars. I was like,
1109
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:37.480
oh cool, this is this makes total sense how he
1110
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:42.719
gets there, and I saw him as old. It's funny
1111
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.719
because Forest Whitaker has he always was kind of the sidekick,
1112
00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:49.599
the actor playing the sidekick character who wasn't as attractive
1113
00:54:49.599 --> 00:54:53.199
as the main star. But then he is. He plays
1114
00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:54.920
in a very important part in the Crying Game, which
1115
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:58.960
was just this beautiful, wonderful erotic movie that he's important in.
1116
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:01.920
But what I still have him as more than anything
1117
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:04.840
was kind of similar to Darth Vader. Like, you know,
1118
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:07.039
the first shot we have of him is his metal
1119
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:09.840
leg and it kind of like clangs in this very
1120
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:13.239
very like metallic way, and then he has that respirator
1121
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:16.639
there's very much like Darth Vader's. And it fit for
1122
00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:19.440
me because you know what is the dark side. The
1123
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:22.679
dark side is when you hate something so much that
1124
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:26.920
it starts to consume you. And that's his story that
1125
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:29.920
for him, the fight against the empire became a fight
1126
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:33.000
of hate because of the death of his sister, and
1127
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:35.599
that he become that by the time of this movie,
1128
00:55:35.679 --> 00:55:38.679
he is so paranoid and he sees everyone against him
1129
00:55:38.679 --> 00:55:41.360
as an enemy and he is just lashing out and
1130
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:45.480
killing civilians and doesn't care. He's still fighting for the
1131
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:47.960
right cause. And as we'll talk about, like Withindoor, like
1132
00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:52.000
it kind of unfortunately, like my mom, Fama by herself
1133
00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:57.079
doesn't win the rebellion like Saw and even more extreme
1134
00:55:57.079 --> 00:55:59.679
people in andor are necessary parts of it, and you
1135
00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:02.400
debate about should they be, but they were. And I
1136
00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:04.960
just everything about his character just it made me so
1137
00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:07.599
happy because that again, that those were the debates we
1138
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:09.199
were happening. I was like, what do we do now?
1139
00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:14.280
You know what? What both everything in terms of like
1140
00:56:14.480 --> 00:56:16.679
how do we feel about people like going to extremes
1141
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:18.559
in other parts of the world, Should we be going
1142
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:20.360
to extremes in our part of the world, Like should
1143
00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:24.119
we be saying like with moral clarity, like no sauce bad,
1144
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:27.639
my moth was good, Like I don't know. His character
1145
00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:31.440
was just so nuanced and so rich. I loved it.
1146
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:38.119
I loved it. I think about him. We're just about
1147
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:39.320
the time we need to wrap up, and any of
1148
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:41.239
the last characters or plot points that we want to
1149
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:41.679
go into.
1150
00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:49.440
Chop remadd appearance Cameo the Goat and he and the ghost.
1151
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:54.760
Oh nice, Okay, I do like that. Like, first of all,
1152
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:58.719
you're like Blue Squadron, who were they? And then you
1153
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:02.079
realize it because they all get whited out. But then,
1154
00:57:02.159 --> 00:57:04.159
like you mentioned, there was a scene from the New
1155
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:06.440
Hope that wasn't in a New Hope. But they also
1156
00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:09.639
did put exact shots and voice things from New Hope.
1157
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:12.320
So like when they say red Leader standing by, Gold
1158
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:16.119
Leader standing by, those are exact things the from a
1159
00:57:16.119 --> 00:57:16.480
New Hope.
1160
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:18.400
Yeah. And they actually took the actual footage from it too.
1161
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:22.760
Yeah yeah. And they show why is Luke become Red five.
1162
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:25.800
We specifically see the destruction of the earlier Red five.
1163
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:29.440
Mm hmm, rest in peace, Red five? You wottle love
1164
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:30.079
the rebellion?
1165
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:37.280
Should we end with the hallway scene? Sure, because let's
1166
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:41.840
just start with like the people get mad about it,
1167
00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:43.920
because they will say, wait a minute, The only way
1168
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:46.599
this works is if all the little indicator lights on
1169
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:49.760
Darth Vader's life support, like why didn't they show up?
1170
00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:54.079
That's dumb. I think if you better understand the character,
1171
00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:58.480
especially if you've seen Anakin in the Clone Wars and
1172
00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:03.880
you've seen Vader in Rebels, you understand he is, if
1173
00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:07.039
nothing else, a drama queen. And would he turn off
1174
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:09.440
his life support for thirty seconds to make that entrance?
1175
00:58:09.559 --> 00:58:10.960
I absolutely believe he would.
1176
00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:14.480
Okay, I didn't know what you're talking about at first,
1177
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:21.559
but now I get it. I agree, I agree he
1178
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:22.079
would do that.
1179
00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:27.400
Yeah, I mean it was the most badass thing I
1180
00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:29.119
think I had ever seen Star Wars, and I was
1181
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:32.079
He's been replicated and Luke Skywalker doing it and man
1182
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:35.400
Orion and Maul kind of doing it and the Clone Wars,
1183
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:37.920
and I just never knew I needed to see a
1184
00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:40.760
how many It's just to me, we had never seen
1185
00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:43.960
Vader at his most menacing.
1186
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.239
Yeah, well, we don't see him do like close hand
1187
00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:53.320
to hand combat, well more like lightsaber of flesh combat, right,
1188
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:56.239
But I feel like we don't see that from Vader
1189
00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:00.960
much in like the cinematic universe. I think we see
1190
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:02.960
it maybe a little bit in Rebels, but like other
1191
00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:05.639
than his fights with Luke, we don't see the way
1192
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:10.480
that he truly just cuts through regular people yeah, and
1193
00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:13.400
just absolutely mowed down like an entire.
1194
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:19.159
Quadrant of people just for fun to be dramatic.
1195
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:22.119
Like like you said, Alex at the top, this guy
1196
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:25.119
he truly could have forth pulled. That could have saved
1197
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:29.639
himself the entire original trilogy. But no, he wanted to
1198
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.199
be dramatic. And that's the cannon in my head. It's
1199
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:34.920
not because the other movie came out thirty years later.
1200
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.639
It's because Anakin Skywalker is dramatic.
1201
00:59:38.679 --> 00:59:40.360
You know, I can explain a lot of things under
1202
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:44.760
that that idea. So all right, Well, last thoughts on
1203
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:46.480
this movie, Aaron, you can go first.
1204
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:52.119
Last thoughts, I just I just love this film.
1205
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:54.360
I love this film, but I just always want to
1206
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:55.239
rewatch it.
1207
00:59:55.519 --> 00:59:57.400
People are like, let's watch a Star Wars movie. I'm like,
1208
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.880
let's watch a rig one. They're like, no, it's depressing.
1209
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:04.960
I'm like, fuck you, we're not friends anymore. Watch Rogue
1210
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:05.400
one with me.
1211
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:06.599
Yep.
1212
01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:09.679
So yeah, I just have so much love and adoration
1213
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:11.920
for this film. I will appreach about it till the
1214
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day I die.
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Yeah, I agree. It is one of my favorite Star
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01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:17.159
Wars films.
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01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:19.039
I think it is when people tell me that, like,
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01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:21.079
you know, they're not sure if they're gonna like Star
1219
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:22.800
Wars or like they're like they think this he's ruined it.
1220
01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:25.159
I'm like, please go watch Rogue One. Rogue one is
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01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.719
just it is singular in this universe. There's nothing I
1222
01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:30.679
don't think will like it out there in the Star
1223
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:33.440
Wars world. Don't get anything again like it. I'm so
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01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:34.960
happy this movie was made.
1225
01:00:35.679 --> 01:00:37.960
Yeah, I agree with all that. I think this is
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01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:40.039
one of the most important movies for Star Wars in
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01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:42.760
terms of it opened up like you can have a
1228
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:45.920
movie without a Force Users as one of your protagonists.
1229
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:48.639
You can have a movie that's not about the people
1230
01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:50.639
who win the war but about the people who win
1231
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:54.760
a small, little side battle. I remember around the time
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01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:56.679
of this movie, I don't know if it started earlier
1233
01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:59.480
or after, but the TV show Shield was coming out,
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01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:02.920
and I enjoyed the MCU, but I loved Shield as
1235
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:05.480
a like much more ground level. And I remember talking about,
1236
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:07.639
like we were talking about a lot Shield and Rogue
1237
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:09.480
One is very much of a piece and I just
1238
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:11.440
you know, and then it gave us and Or, which
1239
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:13.760
I think is probably the best Star Wars product we've
1240
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:19.039
seen so far. So yeah, all around, it awesome. Well,
1241
01:01:19.079 --> 01:01:21.119
thank you so much to both of you. We're gonna
1242
01:01:21.159 --> 01:01:24.719
have Aaron stay on for some bonus member content talking
1243
01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:27.920
specifically about cosplay and some of Aaron's adventures where a
1244
01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:31.280
complete convention was built around showing off Aaron and her cosplay.
1245
01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:37.239
I'm only exaggerating just a bit, exactly exactly, so check
1246
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:39.960
that out. Of course, there will be links to buy
1247
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:42.280
the different books and movies that we talked about in
1248
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:45.840
this episode, and if you go through one of those,
1249
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:47.239
you're like, you know what, I want to watch Rogue
1250
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:49.039
one again, let me go rent it on Amazon, or
1251
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:51.639
let me like find the book Cataclysm that we discussed
1252
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:53.920
links to do that in the show notes. All of
1253
01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:58.000
those will also help us here at the Ethical Pana Podcasts,
1254
01:01:58.280 --> 01:02:00.519
and we'll also just you know, get you great books
1255
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:03.800
or movies are fun things to watch. Aaron raise your hand, go.
1256
01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:09.199
Ahead, Nope, I was just emoting the product.
1257
01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:13.519
Okay, all right, so I'm half of myself, Aaron Alex,
1258
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:18.119
thank you all so much. My achievements not.
1259
01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:20.800
Yours, Stay classy, Jetta.
1260
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:36.559
What chance do we have? The question is what choice