Episode 93: Self-Awareness Isn't About You | Why Knowing Yourself Changes Every Relationship with Rajiv Mehta

WEBVTT
00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:07.919
Hi y'all, I'm Katie Zando, and this is the Spark Something New Podcast.
00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:16.879
A place where we explore topics and conversations that can help you find different ways to live, to work, and to lead.
00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:19.120
I am so glad that you're here.
00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:21.760
So let's spark something new together.
00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:26.079
Hello, my friends.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.800
Welcome back to the Spark Something New podcast.
00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.399
On this week's episode, we're talking about an old word.
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:33.840
Camarery.
00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.280
I don't know why I call it old.
00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:40.320
I just feel like this is a word that was like around in the 1700s.
00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.719
And how do we have more camaraderie?
00:00:43.039 --> 00:01:04.159
However, I have come to really appreciate this word and the richness and depth of what it represents, and how much of what we have trouble describing in our organizations, with our teams, in different groups that we're a part of is it's really we're looking for camaraderie.
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:06.319
This week I sat down with Rajiv Mehta.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:12.400
Raj is a leadership advisor, he's a keynote speaker, and he's author of the book called Mapping Ourselves.
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:25.920
Raj's work helps people better understand themselves so that they can build stronger relationships, more trust, healthier communities, and have a stronger sense of camaraderie.
00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:28.480
So we talk about what the heck this word is.
00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:34.480
How is it different than words like connection, belonging, relationships, community?
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:50.159
And why this word and the tools that he's created have such profound impact and change that organizations like NASA, the US Navy SEALs, and Apple have brought Raj in to do this work.
00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:56.159
You'll find that he is this rare blend of insight and warmth and practical wisdom that is so refreshing.
00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:02.400
And his core message is that self-awareness isn't solely for self.
00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:10.080
It is not solely for your own personal growth and fulfillment, although that is a huge component.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:20.159
But really, it's foundational to community, to connection to other people, to building trust and how we live well with other people.
00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:28.879
So I hope our conversations spark something new in the way that you think about yourself and the way that you relate to those around you.
00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:30.080
So enjoy.
00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:33.680
Raj, welcome to the show, my friend.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:35.680
I'm glad to be here.
00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:37.680
He's laughing because I don't know.
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:38.879
I'm doing the spitting thing.
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:40.879
I gotta like each guest, y'all.
00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:46.319
I gotta like make them feel like they're I don't have walk-on music, so I'm like, I gotta make it a big deal.
00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:47.680
So here we go.
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:55.120
Raj, I'm excited to chat with you about I'm gonna call it a very old person word.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:56.080
Not that you're old.
00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:59.919
I'm not calling you old, but I feel like this is a very camaraderie.
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.360
Like get that gravitas in there.
00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:04.639
Very good, very good.
00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:16.400
I feel like it's like a I don't know, like somebody from I like long ago used this term, like, how do we have more camaraderie?
00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:18.639
So I call it like the old word.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:26.639
Um however, uh the reason why I want to talk about it is you ever you have a wonderful, fascinating perspective about it.
00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:31.680
And it is so much more than than what I'm teasing about the fact of camaraderie.
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:40.639
Because in this day and age, in the work that I do, I hear a lot about the importance of human connection and community.
00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:49.840
And while we might be more familiar and comfortable with the meaning of those words, they definitely don't have the richness as does camaraderie.
00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:53.280
So my first question for you is can you define camaraderie?
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:54.800
Sure, sure.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:55.439
No, of course.
00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:56.800
I mean, that's a good place to start.
00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.759
And in fact, it you know, it's not like we're replacing these other words.
00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:05.439
So just for a moment, let's let's talk about community connection, belonging, the words that we use all the time.
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:10.000
And so the way I think of it is that sort of community is just kind of like a container.
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:17.199
You're part of the New York community, you're part of your family community, you're part of your college alumni organization.
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:21.519
And, you know, it's sort of pretty clear whether you're part of the community or not.
00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:28.399
You don't necessarily know everybody in your community, and and but you accept that there's some container called a community.
00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.560
Connection is um is very, very personal.
00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:33.680
It's just two people.
00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:40.000
Connection is the sense that there are some characteristics of the other person that you honestly like.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.560
And it gives you kind of the grounding to have a relationship with that person.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:50.079
And so, you know, you're both whatever, you're both Red Sox fans and you're passionate about that.
00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:56.480
And that allows you to enjoy each other's company, even if you disagree vehemently on something else.
00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.920
But you you have this connection, this bond with each other.
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:02.319
Belonging is very different.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:12.480
Belonging is the sense that you are part of this group, and you know that everybody else in that group feels you're part of that group.
00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:18.160
And you're allowed to be in this group as you honestly are, and you're not getting kicked out.
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:26.800
So, you know, Uncle Joe, who shows up at Thanksgiving with these really out of this planet views, he is still welcome at Thanksgiving because he's family.
00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:31.920
You know you can be there as you are, and you're still going to be invited back.
00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:37.279
But belonging, I I love this uh Peter Bloch, who's written about community.
00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:41.199
He also describes this sort of second meaning of belonging, which is kind of like the word.
00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:45.360
It means you feel the group belongs to you.
00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:55.360
You have this sense of uh both uh responsibility and some sense of authority to take care of the well-being of the group.
00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:56.639
So belonging.
00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.759
And so camarader is sort of complementary to these things.
00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:03.680
Camaraderie happens within a very clear group of people.
00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:09.199
And so you have a sense of connection, you have a sense of belonging with the people in that group.
00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:14.560
But in addition, you have a goal that you're working together on.
00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:21.600
So it could be you're part of a local community volunteer group that's planting trees, or it could be that, you know, you're running IBM.
00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:26.879
There is this group of people that have a common purpose and you are working on that together.
00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:31.279
So a SEAL team has a very strong sense of camaraderie.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.680
Well, if they don't, they're in serious trouble.
00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.759
But your family does not necessarily have a sense of camaraderie.
00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:39.920
You're not on some common mission together.
00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:47.439
And so it's important to recognize that camaraderie is in the context of a group of people with a common purpose.
00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:55.360
And when you have camaraderie, you know that everybody in the group is dedicated to that common purpose.
00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.680
You know that you're all working towards that, that there's not sort of these competing agendas.
00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:01.120
You are doing this together.
00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:08.720
And you sort of have complete faith that everybody on the team is doing their best for the group's goal and for each other's well-being.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:18.639
I think of, I mean, certainly when you talk about it that way, I see it that this is so much what leaders want for their teams.
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:23.120
They might use the word like team building or collaboration.
00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:34.000
And really, those are more ways of interacting, but camaraderie is this sense that we are part of this community as like an organization.
00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.480
We we have connection with one another, we have belonging.
00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:49.360
And what is the the glue really that's keeping us all together is the fact that we have this shared goal or purpose, which then transcends our differences and maybe our personality quirks.
00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:56.879
And I also see that, my goodness, how much camaraderie shows up in the our home life.
00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:58.079
I hate to call it our personal.
00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:03.920
I've I've tried to train myself to stop saying personal and professional because I think the personal is everywhere.
00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:08.399
Rather, there is professional and home or outside.
00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:13.519
And like a friend group could have a sense of camaraderie.
00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.959
So this is, I'm setting this up and then I'm gonna ask you a question, Rod.
00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:31.040
So if this is a correct thinking of the way you look at camaraderie, so there could be a community, I'm using air quotes, a community of like let's say high school friends who have grown up together.
00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:32.559
And so they're in their adulthood.
00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:39.919
And so the connection point is, you know, high school and maybe they have kids together, and you know, so there's all these different connection points.
00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:46.480
And certainly they feel like they belong and the belonging and that group, that friend group belongs to them.
00:08:46.879 --> 00:09:03.759
And it doesn't mean that that group will always have a sense of camaraderie, but when they do, it might be because let's say one of the friends, if it is a group of women friends, just gave birth and so they're gonna organize food and deliveries and how they take care of it.
00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:13.039
Um maybe it's a group of men and someone is I don't know, maybe they're struggling with mental health, and so they're all gonna come alongside their friend.
00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:17.200
And so is that, am I thinking of it correctly, that camaraderie is maybe a outset?
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:19.440
Yeah, that feels right.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:19.919
Okay.
00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:25.759
Because, in a sense, in the way you describe it, the group of friends has some common purpose in the moment.
00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:32.720
Okay, you know, and so just to put more extreme one, I mean, so it could be a group of friends that are getting together for some like expedition.
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:40.879
You know, they're going, you know, they're going out backwards camping for the next week, and this is a goal.
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:45.919
They want to get from here to there and everyone thrive, everyone succeed, will everyone get there.
00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.399
And so during that time, yes, it's really, really important.
00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:56.639
Whereas then when they get back to their normal lives, they're all going off in whatever direction, but they're still deep friends.
00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:07.759
The funny thing is, as I came to appreciate from talking with people that are on SEAL teams and leading SEAL teams, camaraderie does not imply friendship.
00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.279
Doesn't mean you like the people.
00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:10.240
Uh-huh.
00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:18.000
In the sense that, you know, when they're coming back from their missions and going back to wherever they live in Houston or Dallas or whatever, they're not necessarily hanging out with each other.
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.759
So friendship is not a critical part of camaraderie.
00:10:21.919 --> 00:10:28.159
It's the sense that when you are on this effort together, you are there for everyone's success.
00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:35.919
And you will allow each other to be who they honestly are, acknowledging that, tapping into that.
00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:38.639
But it's not necessarily that you are best buddies.
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.480
So you don't have to have, you know, and this is so important in the work environment.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:44.080
We work with all sorts of people.
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:49.600
They're not necessarily your cup of tea for hanging out on your vacation to Maui.
00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.159
But on that thing, you know that you can completely rely on each other.
00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:02.399
And that applies for business organizations, it applies for church groups, it applies for clubs.
00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:10.159
So, because that's fascinating, because I was thinking, well, oh my gosh, I have so many questions.
00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:17.279
What originally came to mind in the green room, y'all, Raj and I were talking about plans for this weekend.
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:24.480
And I said one of the things that if there's time and capacity that Sean, my husband, and I love to do is we catch up on some shows.
00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.039
We don't watch a lot of television, but like, you know, have a little time.
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.600
And there's a show that we've been watching.
00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:36.240
It's a reality TV show called, well, there's two different ones, Next Level Chef with Gordon Ramsay, and then extracted.
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.080
It's like a survival thing.
00:11:38.399 --> 00:12:04.000
And when you describe that friendship isn't necessary to have camaraderie, what made me think of in extraction is part of the, and I'm setting this up, Raj, to see if this is also camaraderie or if this is something different, where it is a survivalist show where there are a number, I forget, it's like 15 people who their goal is to survive out in the wild.
00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:15.919
But part of the show itself is they each have two family members that are back in quote unquote headquarters, where they get to watch their survivalists and help them.
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:21.360
And there's different competitions, and so they can send them things they need to survive.
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:39.840
And so for the family members who are in headquarters, they are they have there are times where they have to work together because of the challenge, but they're also in competition with one another because ultimately the goal is that only one survivalist wins.
00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:43.039
So they want their family or friend to win.
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:54.480
So I'm giving you that context to say, is it also camaraderie even when you are maybe not enemies, but you're competing against one another?
00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.360
Like, is that, or am I way overthinking camaraderie?
00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:08.960
He's like, Yeah, well, I think you know, it's like in any of these sort of any word that you use, belonging, connection, camaraderie, community, you you go out to the edges and you discover it's kind of blurry.
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:09.360
Okay.
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:09.840
Right?
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:14.879
It's you know, like if I live in Hoboken, do I can't still keep call myself a New Yorker?
00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.039
Well, maybe you do, you know.
00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:17.919
So it's like the board.
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:21.919
Well, so that's just it.
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:33.279
So, you know, like you could argue that in some microscopic time for this hour, you're working in camaraderie because for this hour you've got this task to do so that both of you survive in in this show.
00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:36.960
But on the whole, as you're describing, you are competing.
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:37.600
Okay.
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:38.240
Okay.
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:49.840
And I ask that because one, I'm curious if there are other conditions that are necessary in order for it to be called or for it to be true camaraderie.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:56.159
So we know that there is a group of people, they connect in some way or have some sort of shared identity and a shared goal.
00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:01.840
Are there any other conditions or qualities or things that need to be present in order for it to be camaraderie?
00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:03.120
Yeah, I think so.
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.440
Let me answer your question this way.
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.120
So let's think about what does it take to have camaraderie?
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:14.399
It's not like you can click the button, say, you're all on the same team, you're all committed to this goal, go.
00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:15.440
It doesn't happen.
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:24.639
That deep level of sort of common feelings, knowing that you can work with each other and trust each other completely happens over time.
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.080
It happens through lots of little interactions.
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:35.360
One of the most sort of fundamental sort of requirements for camaraderie is that you know each other.
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.200
You're not pretending that this person is just the loveliest person.
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:40.960
You know they're always grumpy.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.679
You know this.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:42.399
You know this.
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:47.440
You know that they're they are no good at don't put you know meal duty on them.
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:55.440
So you know what they honestly are good at, what they're not, what rubs you the wrong way, what you love, and you're allowing them to be.
00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.879
But that requires you to actually know them.
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:09.360
And it's sort of what comes as part of that is that honestly, you actually need to know yourself really well because otherwise it's hard for other people to know you.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.240
And so it's not sort of a requirement for camaraderie.
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:18.080
It's more like the foundation for camaraderie is that you have deep knowledge of yourself and each other.
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:24.399
And kind of practically speaking, you have built up kind of shared stories through shared experiences.
00:15:24.559 --> 00:15:28.480
So this is something that happens over time, consciously, ideally.
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.919
It's not something you can sort of sprinkle on at the end to say, bingo, we've got camaraderie, let's go.
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:35.440
So this is really, really key.
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.039
It doesn't happen like that.
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:42.080
I took it, took a big deep breath because here we are.
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.399
We're back at this know thyself.
00:15:44.559 --> 00:16:30.960
And uh and I've been, I continually joke that when I work with leaders or or just anybody, how many people will say they know themselves, but they don't really know themselves, like at the depth to which I think when when we're using I think when we're using the term camaraderie, like you know, when when seals work together, like when we're working towards something that is important, that might be high risk, that has a pressure or an intensity to it, uh, knowing each other and knowing thyself, not at a surface level, but at a at a true depth, it requires a lot of work and effort that a lot of people maybe for whatever reason aren't comfortable with it, don't have capacity.
00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:31.440
So whatever.
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.080
So that was the laugh at like, here we are, back to know thyself.
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:34.960
Right, right.
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:39.679
I I did want to add to what you were just saying, though.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:50.240
We're accustomed to thinking that know yourself implies kind of this go into a monastery and hang out there for five years to really know yourself deeply and and so forth.
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:56.080
And yes, that's all lovely and true, but that's not necessarily what I'm talking about.
00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.039
I'm talking about like bring this to the practical level.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:08.240
Know what your day is like, who you interact with, what you enjoy, what you don't, what kinds of situations just get you fried and what sorts of situations you love.
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:12.240
This real practical day-to-day knowledge of yourself.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:26.720
And so um this, so one of the key things here is that we have come to think of know yourself, know thyself, if you want to get fancy, as this I mean, we are using the word camaraderie, so I feel like know thyself is like equally as fancy.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:27.599
Right, right.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:32.480
You know, so but like we've come to think of this in kind of this internal self.
00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:39.440
And I want to emphasize that when I'm talking about know yourself, this is a concept that is plural.
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.920
We are incredibly social animals.
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:51.519
Know yourself includes the people that you interact with regularly, and the whole kind of relationship, the whole ecosystem that we're very much part of.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.160
Know yourself is also dynamic.
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.119
The world is constantly changing, including you.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:02.960
And so, what are you today or this hour is different than what you are at other times.
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:08.960
So you have to constantly, in some sense, be aware of the fact that know yourself is contextual.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:11.279
And in that sense, go ahead.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.440
Just to close on that sense, know yourself is also, I think of it as holistic.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:20.960
It's like the environment that you're in, the milie that you're in, is really important.
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:27.599
So you can't necessarily know yourself that well if you do go off to a cave to study yourself.
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.480
Because no, it's knowing yourself in the context.
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:33.200
So, how do you know yourself in the context?
00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.640
Like, I love how you're like, no, this isn't this is at a practical level.
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.480
This is not at a deep internal level.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:47.759
And I'm like, you just took it to the next existential level, which is like not just know thyself internally, but know thyself dynamically in every shift in context.
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.480
No, I know that's not what you mean, but I'm like, No, you just took it.
00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:52.079
But what do you think?
00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:56.319
What does what does that look like?
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.079
Well, so let's put it this way.
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:04.160
So, over, you know, people that's smart people have been advising us to know yourself for a few millennia.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:04.720
Yeah, right.
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:13.119
And so this idea that knowing yourself is valuable, and the idea that most of us don't know ourselves all that well is not breaking news, right?
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.559
This apparently this has been a characteristic of humans for a long time.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:27.279
And so over the millennia, we have developed many ways, many tools for knowing yourself, meditation and mindfulness and journaling and therapy and so forth.
00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:37.519
So, given that this is ancient, it might surprise most people to know that in the last 10, 15 years, there's been a huge flowering of innovation in ways to know yourself.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.160
How do you do, how do you pay attention to your day-to-day interactions?
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:47.759
How do you pay attention to kind of like the spaces that you're in to see how they impact you?
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:57.680
And so the I've been involved with a group of a very loose-knit global community of people that have been developing new ideas, developing new techniques, developing new ways.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:08.079
And so I myself have kind of standardized some of these for my purposes to provide people kind of a starter kit of tools to use to pay attention to daily life.
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.920
And I've taught these to like eight-year-olds and teenagers and 90-year-olds.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.079
So they are not complicated.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:19.279
But that's partly because I put in a lot of work to develop easy-to-use tools.
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:27.440
But as a easy example, you know, we think that we know the people that are around us all the time that contribute to our well-being.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:31.279
So who are all the people that you care for, who cares for you?
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:38.880
You would think this is kind of obvious, but I have led lots of workshops over the years to help people simply think through that.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:40.720
And, you know, it's nothing very complicated.
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.319
Ask them, write down who do you care for, who cares for you?
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:50.240
And then I teach them how to make a very simple diagram of this, like stick figures and arrows pointing one to the other.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:53.920
You know, I care for my mom, I have a sick pet cat, I'm caring for my cat.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:58.880
And, you know, my Facebook friends are always checking in on me, they care for me.
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:01.039
And so you make a simple diagram.
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:11.039
And what's been astonishing over the years is how much people discover their eyes open to kind of the reality of their care ecosystem.
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:16.319
That in the process of this, they've become so much more aware.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.039
And they often discover that they have blind spots.
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:26.960
You know, they as an example, when my sister-in-law drew her care map with my assistance, she totally forgot to include my wife.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:30.319
Never mind that they talk to each other several times a day.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.359
It's just they have been such an integral part of each other's life for decades that they forget that it's a different person.
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.400
You know, it's it sort of like slips your mind because it's so close.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.519
I've had lots of married couples forget their spouse and so forth.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:53.920
You know, and when we reflect on it, it becomes clear sometimes that they are missing in this aspect of your life.
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:58.640
And sometimes you're just like, they're so there that you've taken it for granted.
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:02.799
And what happens is Is people both discover what's missing?
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:05.279
It's like, oh, I wish my brother was more involved.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:15.920
But they also discover how much there is to celebrate because they've been overlooking these people that provide them with so much care that, you know, it allows them to thrive.
00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.000
And they've been just sort of taking that for granted.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.079
And so, you know, that that's one sort of simple tool that I had developed.
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:35.279
And there's more for paying attention to kind of the spaces that you're in or how you spend your time over the course of the day or the conversations you have that allow you to see day-to-day life much more richly.
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:37.440
Raj, I'm curious.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:50.240
Um thinking live how to frame this question, I see the relevancy and the aha moments that can happen when we use a tool like who is in my care ecosystem?
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:50.799
I love this.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:52.079
Like you're so smart.
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:53.839
You just like kind of love it.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.799
You're so smart.
00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:11.839
Um, but in within my care ecosystem, and where I'm where I'm curious is why would we need to think about a care ecosystem as it relates to improving camaraderie amongst a group?
00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:16.400
So you mentioned you've worked with SEALs, like you've worked with so many amazing groups.
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:32.559
And maybe you didn't do this with SEALs, but as I'm thinking about applying this in the professional setting or in a societal setting, why is it important that knowing thyself also means knowing thyself in a care ecosystem?
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.400
Like, how do we begin to identify?
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:41.440
Oh, I need to, I need to know myself in this way better so that I know how to what better connect?
00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:47.920
Like, so I guess my question is, I'm processing out loud, why do we need to do these things?
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.480
And how do we know what things to focus on?
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:53.599
Sure.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.000
So two parts to the answer, uh, which I'll give you both at the beginning.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:00.160
One is that we're all human.
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:06.240
And so our families are how we spend our time is integral, no matter what you do.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:11.440
Whether you're a Navy SEAL or you're flipping burgers at McDonald's, you are human, you have family.
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:13.839
This is so much a part of you, you can't ignore it.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.720
You said earlier, we can't separate personal and professional.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.799
We, it's the person who is there.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.359
That's right.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:28.480
The second part of it is of course, if you're a SEAL, if you're a stockbroker, if you're a real estate agent, what particularly matters in your life varies.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:33.359
But you have to have the skills to be able to investigate whatever matters to you.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:40.559
And part of the value of what I think of as the starter kit of tools I've developed is that you are learning how to see.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:42.559
You're learning how to observe.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:50.559
You're developing a language, a skill set, a visual uh language to investigate anything you care about.
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:55.440
And so if I I'll go back to the first one and then come back to the second with some with some stories.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:00.079
So on the first one, SEALs are people too, right?
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.759
It's like this is so, this is so so critical to them.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:10.400
And so one, well, this guy wasn't a SEAL, he was just a Navy captain, you know, command.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:11.359
Yeah, I don't know.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.839
He was just a decorated veteran who like was super amazing.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:16.480
No, I'm kidding.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.440
But he was sort of on the cusp of retiring.
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:32.960
And when I had him draw his care map, one of the things in the care map that I encourage people to do is to kind of draw the people who physically live near you, kind of in the middle of the paper, and the people who live far away, kind of on the edges of the paper.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:41.279
And then you kind of make a circle, ends up being like an amoeba shape, enclosing everyone that's within 20 minutes, enclosing everyone that's within two hours.
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:46.480
And he said to me, Look, you know, I've been in Navy, whatever, for 20 odd years.
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:49.440
My friends are always all around the world.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.519
These circles don't mean anything to me.
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.240
And I was like, fine, don't draw the circles.
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:55.519
Your life is different.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:01.200
Within a month, he came back and said, Raj, I've come to appreciate how important those were.
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:14.960
Because as he was on the cusp of retirement and he was settling in one place, he realized because of this exercise that because all of his friends were far away, there was no one he could call, kind of on the spur of the moment, and said, I need to talk.
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.400
Let's go meet at this bar.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:24.640
And so the lack of having someone that you could just hang out with as a human being turns out to be really, really important.
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:26.799
And so this was a discovery.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:31.200
There was another guy, he wasn't a seal, he was a green beret, uh, whatever.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:48.480
But he discovered that his 20 years of experience in special operations had left him with these amazing skills for kind of disappearing in plain sight, of like actively not allowing other people to get to know him.
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.400
Just part of his practice of living in the world was be invisible.
00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:00.400
And he realized, this sound hilarious, he realized that now that he was in his civilian life, these skills were gonna make life very lonely.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:05.200
If you actively don't allow anybody in, there's not gonna be anybody there.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.960
And he's like, Oh, I got I gotta do something about this.
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:17.279
And so he actually made it a point to go and say hi to his neighbors and to be visible in the front yard and things like that.
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:22.799
And eventually, honestly, he he's a musician, he discovered other musicians in his neighborhood, they formed a band.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:27.359
And so, no, that those people need this just as much as anybody else.
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:31.279
Um, there was uh one person who is one of the senior instructors at the U.S.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:39.440
Naval Academy who was part of this, and he, in using one of the exercises where he paid attention to how he was using his time every day.
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:51.440
And every day he found himself struggling to do the little exercises, like which made him aware, which seems kind of funny, but that he was just so oversubscribed on his time that he couldn't do anything.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:28:04.160
You know, he was just like meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting, and which made him sort of stop and reflect on how he was doing such a poor job of kind of balancing work requirements, family requirements, other things he was interested in.
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.799
And he had to kind of pause and he had a picture of this.
00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:18.240
And these sort of reflections of where our own life was going well, where it wasn't, actually allowed him to better serve the cadets.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:31.839
Like he told me a story of one of the cadets at the Naval Academy who was, he was at risk of being thrown out, and he helped him with his own reflections and asked uh the cadet to sort of pay attention to his interactions over the course of the day.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:39.359
And the cadet himself discovered how his own kind of behavior was so, um, shall we put it, off-putting?
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:41.279
No, but no wonder, nobody was.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:46.240
And it opened his eyes to the fact that it is possible for people to be nice to him.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:50.079
And it was like an eye-opening thing for for this cadet.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:55.519
You know, who knows what his life circumstances had been, but opening his eyes was a big deal.
00:28:55.680 --> 00:29:02.880
And I found this as people learn to see by using the starter kit of tool, they are able to teach their friends and family.
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:06.480
They're able to then go pursue ideas of their own.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:17.519
And as a trivial example, if the second, I was teaching a bunch of high school kids in rural Michigan, so really rural, like the city nearby had 2,000 people.
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:21.119
Um, but so you know, high school kids are high school kids.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:28.960
So this one child who was like so into sports and so forth, he was just curious, like how much time do I spend on each activity?
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:32.000
He's simply gonna keep a log and make a pretty drawing of it.
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:33.920
Uh, this other child was just hilarious.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:38.160
He was, he had some sort of bedtime that he was supposed to pay attention to.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:39.839
And he was not having this.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.079
He was really annoyed at his parents were insisting.
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:52.240
And so he was gonna keep track of what time he went to bed and how lively he felt the next day to provide data to his parents that he, you know.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.079
And I was like, go do that.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:58.319
You will discover that sleep is kind of useful, but maybe you're an exception.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:01.519
You know, I didn't come up with a tool for tracking sleep.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:05.440
But once you know what you're doing, this is not complicated.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:13.039
So I'm having uh I don't know what I'm having.
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:19.119
I'm having uh a moment where I'm like, Raj, I'm trying to make that connection.
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.640
Okay, because this is like, I don't know if I'm overthinking or underthinking it.
00:30:23.759 --> 00:31:00.960
So is the work that you do the goal to tea, I hear you, I heard you say teach people different ways to understand themselves so that they've developed the skill, or maybe it's a competency, a competent which is a set of skills, the competency to be able to go and reflect on myself so that regardless of the group, I know how I'm affecting or contributing to camaraderie.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:04.160
Um why don't I tell you the little story of how I came to this?
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.559
Because I myself was surprised at the ending.
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:15.119
So I'll skip the long story, but for many years I was teaching, developing these sorts of tools and teaching them for people for, in a sense, their personal benefit.
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:23.359
You know, like if perhaps you have an illness, and it's important to be observant of your own illness so that you can you can manage things better.
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:35.839
I I was teaching a lot of these workshops, and the good news was people were coming away from these workshops telling me that this was life-changing, that they had learned so much, that it made such a difference to their lives and so forth.
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:37.839
So great, isn't this wonderful?
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:39.599
You know, which it was.
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:50.720
What I found was kind of interesting and unexpected was at the end of these workshops and stuff, what people first wanted to talk about when I asked them, how was that?
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:57.200
They would talk about how much they enjoyed being with each other, how much they got to know each other better.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:05.599
Like there was a time when I was leading a session for a group of uh caregivers of people with dementia in Phoenix.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:10.160
It was a uh it was a support group that had been meeting regularly for three years or something.
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:13.759
And at the end of it, one of them spoke up and said, We've been meeting for three years.
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:18.400
We have gotten to know each other better in these two hours than in the three years that we've been doing this.
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.799
This is this is mind-boggling.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:32.640
And over time, I found that when people in a group like that group already knew each other, the conversation that began in the workshop simply continued into normal life.
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:37.279
And essentially, kind of a non-topic of conversation became commonplace.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:46.960
They started talking about their care ecosystem or how they spent their time in, you know, they had now a language for this, they had a diagram of this, they could talk about it.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:56.960
And those conversations allowed them to sort of tap into their communal wisdom in ways they had never before, even though they had known each other.
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:06.880
And more they talked about how this had changed their relationship as a group, that they found kind of a deeper sense of connection and belonging.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:12.480
And for a long time, I thought of that as, isn't that nice?
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:14.559
Like icing on the cake.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:18.319
They came to learn this one thing and they came out with this bonus.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:19.839
Isn't that nice?
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:31.519
And it wasn't till honestly, to those SEALs that I was working with that one of them said to me, It's like, Raj, you don't seem to understand how important and powerful that is.
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:45.200
And he explained to me, he said, all in these senior military officers, um, in his language, he said, if you don't know yourself, if you don't know your team, you're almost guaranteed to lose the battle.
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:53.839
And so he said, So we, you know, especially Navy SEAL captains and so forth, they have spent their entire career on how can I know myself?
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:55.279
How can I know my team?
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:58.720
It's a part of sort of situational awareness is you got to know the people.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:33:59.519
Right, right.
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:01.119
And so it was quite funny.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.920
He was very politely essentially saying that, Raj, I know more about knowing yourself than you do.
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:07.839
I've been working on this a long time.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:15.920
And so trust me when I tell you that what you have been saying is far more powerful than what you seem to realize.
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:33.039
That the fact that going through this process, using these tools, but doing it collectively, this sort of experience of collective self-reflection is so valuable for camaraderie and Raj, camaraderie is really, really, really important.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.000
Oh, I think I get I think I get it.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:37.599
Wait, were you gonna say something else?
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:39.199
So I backed into this.
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:41.519
It's not like I went out to solve this thing.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:43.440
It was like surprise.
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.679
Okay, so I think I get it because I was wearing a list.
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:57.119
Well, I was wearing my Katie hat, but I was also wearing my podcast listener hat and been like, what the heck does care ecosystems have to do with making my helping my team function better or my family?
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:01.599
And what you're saying is that these tools, which then I want to ask you, like, what's an example of a tool?
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:26.719
But these tools provide new ways and different ways for people to better understand one another, build trust, deepen relationships, and and essentially create or strengthen group identity because we're talking about things so far beyond the what are your core values?
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.920
What do you, which again, I don't want to, well, that sounds like I'm making fun of it.
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:41.840
I believe very deeply in core values, but you're it you're you're suggesting for different ways for people to more deeply understand themselves, which creates more authentic connections, trust.
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:44.639
So I think I yeah, okay yeah.
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:52.000
And and to add to that, it also allows us to know our to become more practiced at knowing ourselves well.
00:35:52.239 --> 00:36:03.840
So for example, a values, you know, again, not to not to make fun of that stuff, but like, you know, I've so many times organizations use like the values deck to identify your best values.
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.159
Yeah.
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:10.880
And we assume that we actually know what our values are in simply going through the deck so that we can identify.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:16.800
But let me, so there's a professor at San Jose State who did a big study on busyness in America.
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:17.360
Okay.
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:18.239
Okay.
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:23.840
And what she discovered, which which is like the is like everybody is busy.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:27.360
Everybody thinks they need 48 hours for every day to get right.
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:31.840
But what she discovered was that everybody is busy in so many different ways.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:39.360
And if you pay attention to what is making you busy, you start to discover what it is that you value.
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:47.760
And so, you know, Joe over here might be spending every making moment that he possibly can doing things for his church.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:52.639
Clearly, he has this deep sense of responsibility for his church community.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:59.280
You know, this person over here is just every spare moment on exercise, this, that, or the other thing, or just on their work or whatever.
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:10.400
But through this practice of paying attention to where you spend your time, you may discover what you really value because you have to ask yourself, why am I spending time on that?
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:23.360
And so part of this is that we have so many kind of practices, habits, best practices that assume that you know yourself, but you don't necessarily.
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:28.239
And how can we become better skilled at paying attention to ourselves?
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:33.039
Do you have uh, I mean, I know you have tools.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:37.599
Do you have a tool that you could share with listeners that you're willing to share could be helpful?
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:43.119
Something that you could share with them in a short amount of time that they could walk away and try this.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:44.000
Well, walk away.
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:45.039
I mean, you're not physically here.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:51.840
So, listeners, you're not walking away after they turn off the podcast, that they could try for themselves.
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:52.400
Yeah.
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:57.280
Well, so the like these uh the starter kit of tools that I mentioned, they're they're freely available on the website.
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:02.400
So if you go to mapping ourselves.com, you know, we're making maps of our daily life.
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:06.079
So mappingourselves.com, one of the menu items is resources.
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:06.480
Okay.
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:07.840
And you can you can get them there.
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.719
So mapping ourselves.com slash resources.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:17.119
But as at a at an even more trivial level, you know, we think of let's go back to sort of the care ecosystem.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:24.880
Most people, when you use the word care these days, assume it's something having to do with someone who's sick or for or or fragile.
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:30.880
It's like you're caring for your aunt who has Parkinson's, you're caring for a child who has diabetes.
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:35.199
But care is this human thing we do for each other all the time.
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:47.519
And so, kind of a trivial exercise is just to get a piece of paper and jot down all of the tiny little acts of care that you have given or received over the past day or two.
00:38:47.760 --> 00:39:01.199
And so you might remind it's like, oh, the barista at this Starbucks was just said hi in such a happy way that it started off my day really well, you know, or Joe brought in donuts to the office because he wanted to celebrate something.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:05.519
I hate donuts, but wasn't that nice of him to be thoughtful?
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:12.000
Or that, you know, you went out of your way to help your neighbor because you know she's not doing really well right now.
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:14.000
You just stopped in to say hi for two minutes.
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:27.199
So if you pay attention to these tiny little moments of acts of care, that alone can be really eye-opening to see how we live in a world that has that or doesn't.
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:34.719
But you know, because there are people that are quite lonely and disconnected, but it's still worthwhile doing this.
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:55.920
I think how powerful that very simple exercise could be where if there is a team in the professional setting that might be struggling with, I don't know, competition or building trust, or I like whatever, maybe just some challenges with relationship building.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:40:01.360
Oftentimes I hear clients, they'll they'll use it like, oh, there's personality differences, or you know, what have you.
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:15.360
And paying attention to say, like, with this team over the course of the day, like jot down as you reflect over, you know, today or tomorrow, what have you, what are the moments where we've cared for one another?
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.440
And that could be, you know, you spoke up, you were willing to help.
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:25.280
And and what you start to do is take the personalities out of it, the stories.
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:29.840
You know, there's a lot of stories in our in our head about things.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:42.079
Like I think before when we were talking, you mentioned something like what you think just ain't so, like what you think about someone or situation probably is not the case.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:55.760
And and so taking an a small intentional exercise to say, hey, over the course of the next day, just jot down all the different ways this person was kind to you, or like, is that like an adaptation people could use of the tool?
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:58.239
So yes and no.
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:05.119
The no part is that you have to build an environment of trust to do this.
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:10.719
And it it you have to have kind of really deep, sustained commitments.
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:22.480
You have to go into it with the deep intentionality that you're gonna form camaraderie, that you're gonna work to really know each other, that this is a commitment, not an activity.
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:32.000
And so when leader, you know, so in the in the business context, when leaders want to know, well, I have this going on in my company, I want to come in and help.
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:33.760
I'm like, um, no.
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:36.719
Lead by leading.
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:37.840
You start.
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:39.440
You're a human being too.
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:40.880
You have these same issues.
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:42.239
So start with yourself.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:51.679
Ideally, start with two or three people, five people, the people that you are already closest to, who already you have some trust with, who are going to be willing to do this with you.
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:53.199
Start with yourselves.
00:41:53.519 --> 00:42:08.480
Start using these tools, start talking about it, and see what you learn about each other and see what changes it makes to your relationships, to your lives, and then inspire everybody else by sharing your stories.
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:10.159
What did you learn?
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:16.400
So it's not telling these people, oh, there's this smart guy in California, he wrote this book, you heard him on this podcast.
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:17.760
You need to go do that.
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:19.840
No, none of that nonsense.
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.760
You start with yourself and you share your stories.
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:26.800
I Roger, I love it.
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:28.320
No, that's just nonsense.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:28.960
No.
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:32.880
Yeah, this is you.
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:34.800
It's like you lead.
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:44.239
Oh, that's that's why I think these idea that you can sprinkle camaraderie on to fix things.
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:45.599
Like, no, this is deep.
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:47.519
It starts with the intention.
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:57.920
I was thinking like it's not, it is what you're what you are saying describing, saying is that it's a commitment, which means this needs to be a practice.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:03.920
This needs to be something that is intentional, sustained, daily.
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:05.760
This isn't a personality trait.
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:14.480
This isn't, you know, an icebreaker or a something that we're gonna go do as a team together and then we're gonna fix things.
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:21.920
And maybe that's why a lot of team building efforts fall flat because they're not truly building camaraderie.
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.039
They are staying.
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:23.920
What are they doing?
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.880
Are they staying at the surface level or what's the difference?
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:37.280
I mean, I know you like I'm speaking generalities, but what's the difference between like team building that just doesn't stick and the type of creating real camaraderie that you're talking about?
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:38.079
Is it intention?
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:38.800
Is it commitment?
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:39.840
Like, what is it?
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:47.280
So I think like I I am a fan of many of those activities, the team building types of activities, the values deck and all of that.
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:48.880
I don't mean to criticize those things.
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:55.840
Rather, it's as if we are so if I can use a metaphor, it's like we're planting good seeds in unhealthy soil.
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:59.519
So we're doing something that should thrive.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.079
But like, you know, think of a great off site.
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:06.079
You go off someplace, you all do something, enjoy the day.
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.880
Next day you're back in the office, everything's the same.
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:16.800
It is actually de spiriting to discover that you can have so much fun together, but honestly, nothing's changing.
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:23.840
And so we're we're not addressing kind of the fundamental of healing the soil, of creating an environment where there is trust.
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:26.800
When you have that, then you go do something fun.
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:32.800
It is great because you enjoy spending time with each other in kind of a different way than you do normally.
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:34.079
That's fantastic.
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:52.320
When you come and do the values deck or any of those other sort of behavioral exercises, you know that everybody else is so deeply knowledgeable about themselves that this is what they think they are, not just kind of, oh, you know, because I've done those values things so many times, it always feels like it's kind of random exercise.
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:56.239
You know, it's like sometimes the cards come out quite differently.
00:44:56.480 --> 00:45:00.880
Um so this this is it.
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:03.760
We're talking about building the foundations.
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:11.360
And, you know, we cannot take advantage of the military's approach to building camaraderie in normal life.
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:17.599
We're not gonna go to boot camp for four years, you know, and we're not gonna get really shot at.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:32.320
They have, well, I mean, as my military friends sort of explained to me, it's like the military in the sense of the multi-thousand, you know, the many thousand years experience of militaries, they have learned what is required to forge camaraderie.
00:45:32.960 --> 00:45:35.679
It works for them, it's not for normal life.
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:36.719
Yeah.
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:41.920
So basically, don't read a Navy SEAL book about how to no, I'm just kidding.
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.360
Um it's just it doesn't apply to you.
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:54.320
I was, I was, I love the challenge that like this isn't you telling your team we're gonna do this as a team, but like you listening, it starts with you.
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:57.840
So if you're a leader, if you're a parent, if you would have like it starts with you.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:02.320
So you speaking to the you, like you speaking to the person, like this is you.
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:20.639
What is one inward practice exercise tool, however you want to frame it, that they could do this week to start to notice, to start to heal the soil in whatever space that they are looking to feel a stronger sense of camaraderie.
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:31.039
So I would urge people to uh, you know, from the resources, the the free thing, there's one of the tools that's called the Atlas Care Map, the one about the care ecosystem.
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:32.480
Go do that.
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:40.000
But very much to sort of change what you said, don't just do it in your head.
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:44.960
Write it as the instructions say, write it down, make the drawing.
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:51.679
This tactile analog approach to learning is actually really, really, really key.
00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:57.760
We learn so much better when we are physically involved.
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:01.119
The fact that it slows you down is actually a feature.
00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:04.639
It's not a bug, it's a feature that it takes time.
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:06.079
You're doing it.
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:09.760
And so don't intellectualize this.
00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:13.679
Kind of use your entire self in doing this work.
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:27.440
So writing, drawing, uh, I also encourage people as strongly as I can, after you make your drawing, go talk about it with one or two people in your drawing.
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:33.679
Share it with them, explain what you're doing, and be open to discovering that their perspective is different.
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:34.880
Because it will be.
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:36.239
It absolutely will be.
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:40.239
I've had so many people in some of my workshops where married couples have come in.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.159
I don't tell them one way or the other.
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.760
A few couples end up drawing a diagram by themselves.
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:46.960
Isn't that cute?
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:51.760
Most of them each draw their own and then are shocked when they compare.
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:53.840
That's so much more powerful.
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:59.519
Because you like my wife and I have we've been married 43 years now.
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:02.960
I think we've known each other for like 53 years, whatever.
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:07.119
But we still, you know, we can be constantly surprised at what the other person thinks.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:15.760
Like and so this is important to draw your map, share it with others, and see how their perspectives differ.
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:20.320
It's really the the talking is such a key part of this.
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:20.880
Yeah.
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.480
Raj I love this.
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:23.119
Thank you.
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:24.960
Oh my gosh, thank you for so many things.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:27.360
Thank you for your brilliance.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.800
Thank you for because you are you're just really wicked smart.
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:37.679
Thank you for your brilliance, thank you for your humor and candor for your man.
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:51.280
You have a warmth about you where you can tell like you you love this, and it it comes from a space of just genuine curiosity for yourself and love and compassion for other people.
00:48:51.440 --> 00:49:00.480
And so I'm just I'm always grateful to meet others who are so gifted and humble and and all those things.
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:02.960
So I don't know, I just thank you for being you, Raj.
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:05.440
Well, thank you for saying all that.
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.679
I'll try not to let it go to my head too much.
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:11.360
But it's it's been it's been just lovely chatting with you.
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:11.840
Thank you.
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:13.840
You're welcome.
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.760
Y'all, thanks for spending some of your day with me.
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:21.599
I'm really grateful for you.
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:30.639
And I hope this episode sparked something new for you in the way that you think about your life, your work, your leadership, and your relationships.
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:37.039
If it did, I'd love if you would give us a review on whatever platform that you listen to your podcast.
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:41.840
And share this episode with anyone who you think might be interested in listening to it.
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:46.880
And finally, let me know if there are any other topics that you want to see covered in future episodes.
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:52.559
You can connect with me on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram, all under the handle KB Santa.
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.280
My friends, take good care of yourselves.
00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:57.840
Keep shining beautiful lights.
00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:59.599
And I'll see you next time.