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Welcome, welcome to Storting Through Life with Colleen Watston on AM950, the progressive voice of Minnesota.
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I am Colleen Watston, your host, and also the owner and lead organizer of Space by Space Organizing, a home organizing business here in the Twin Cities of wonderful Minnesota.
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And I am here today with Rachel Schrowman, our show's resident estate attorney, elder law attorney, and general great gal.
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Um today we are going to talk about stuff, about downsizing, about leaving your belongings behind.
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That could be everything from the diamond ring, the house, and the cash, you know, or the investment.
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There's so much that we accumulate in our life, and and then it's that we let it go.
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And I think when designing this um show, I always knew I wanted to have an estate attorney be involved.
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Um, but I am the daughter of a funeral director, and I've realized especially I've had my business for um a few plus years now, and so I've realized how much growing up in a funeral business and surrounded by the fact that we all die and just having that be part of life is unique and has really informed my values and my like carpe diem approach.
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I have I have a travel memoir I'm gonna put out in the world one day, but I described that like my dad was the epitome of stable as I grew up.
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Like he's always been so stable at the helm of a family funeral business, I think is what I say.
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But that gave me, but he never stood in my way of you know carpe diem dieming you know my life away because I think it was like to be raised by somebody who saw death at all ages and all circumstances, and you know, in the middle of a rise in life and you're just taken out of it, and in you know, in the middle of just after having a child, um, you know, children.
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And um, and so to be raised very intimately in that environment and just kind of have it be a backdrop to how I saw the world um I think is just so formative.
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I've really learned it's so formative, and I think that it also is enormously motivating for me.
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I don't find the fact that we die depressing, I find the fact that we live exciting and motivating.
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And what am I going to do with my life?
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And how can I, you know, and I love helping people get out of their own way so that they can live an amazing life.
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But if we are here, that's the one thing we have in common, is that if you are a human in human form, in breathing and experiencing this earth through through it, you one day won't be.
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You know, your your soul will pass and your body will will be what once housed it, and you will not, you know, not to get to any spiritual belief, just that we die.
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And we don't really know, you know, some people have better ideas about what happens and some people don't, but but we won't be here.
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And no matter how much money somebody has, no matter how much power or prestige someone has in their life, not a single person has been able to take their stuff with them to heaven.
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You know, we have Egyptian gods who bury or Egyptian pharaohs who buried their stuff with them in pyramids.
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We have, you know, the Taj Mahal is like this gorgeous funeral, you know, um final resting place for some fancy person's lover, I think, you know, or second, yeah.
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We've we've memorialized people, we've shrined things, but there's a lot of stuff people leave behind.
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And where you come in, Rachel, is helping people to plan what happens and what they would like to happen to everything that they have accumulated, which is an an item, like a small item, a massive asset, investment accounts, debt, you know, um, and also like even legacy and kind of some of those more intangibles of, you know, we're gonna talk at the end about m money and and gifting and leaving behind, you know, a legacy through through a charitable gift.
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So I help people, it's pretty straightforward, go to my website, Space by Space Organizing.
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I help people go through their their items and and I can speak to that all day, but but you're here.
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So um when people have their items, yeah, how does that how does like a will, how does writing it down, how does the legal element come into place with who gets what, where things go, and expressing your wishes for when you are no longer the keeper?
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So with like tan what we what we call items or more like the the things that you have in your house, uh we call it tangible personal property.
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Uh your precious moments collections, your cars, your furniture, your jewelry, your family heirlooms, uh those types of personal property can often be passed uh by a written list.
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Now at our office, when we draft documents, we put language in wills or trusts that will legally incorporate a list that can be kept with your document that just needs to be signed and dated and can be updated by you without having to update the entire document.
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So every once in a while I'll have a client come in and they say, Well, I really want to make certain that my ring, my wedding ring, goes to my daughter.
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I really want uh well, my my gun collection to go to my son.
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I really want the piano that I got from my grandma to go to my sister.
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Um we can draft those things directly into a will.
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And if you want to change it later, you're then doing a legal process to update.
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However, for those types of things, as long as they're not, you know, if you have an original Monet painting, don't put that on a list.
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That's worth a lot.
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High value items are gonna have a different impact.
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Uh, you can't put cash on a written list.
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You can't put$25,000 to this person.
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You actually coin collections are considered cash.
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Those can't go on written lists.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Um and then real property land, you can't pass that by a list.
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But for those other more sentimental but just as important, if not more important, things, a written list is a really slick way to do it.
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Uh so for example, I've uh I have a trust in place.
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I've updated my personal property list once or twice, but I haven't had to update the actual trust itself.
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Now, arguably for me, I can sit and draft my own amendment, but I still have to do it.
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I still have to find two witnesses, I still have to pull someone to notarize it.
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Really nice when I can just get the list out, uh, update that, sign it, date it, put it away.
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Right.
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And that's something like hiring, you know, my business with legacy lifters, like we can help go through your house and make that list.
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And make the list.
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You know, and and also even attach, you know, I'm working with a client that we're you know capturing the stories around some of the items so that we can make sure that you know you know why where did this come from.
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And you know, one of one of the things was this big uh piece of art, and I asked her the story on an audio um with Remento as the platform where I had Charlie Green, the CEO on.
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And so we're eventually gonna have a book that's like a catalog of these more important items to her with the story in a QR code that you can pull up and listen.
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But it wasn't as much about the item.
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They just liked it on a trip.
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It was fun to hear that you know, getting it back through they there was nowhere that it fit on the airplane.
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Oh and they ended up like the pilots put it, this was probably a long time ago, they wouldn't do it now, but you know, decades ago when there were less regulations, um, the pilots flew with this parrot from it was a piece of art, like a parrot that um and they said, Do you mind having this parrot up in there, you know, in the cockpit?
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And so that was kind of the fun story about it, to think, okay, well, when the day comes that someone's like, What is I don't even know where they got this, like where was that?
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It's it's documented.
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But so just having a list, how much do you find people wanting to itemize by value so that siblings, you know, our last episode that we had, we talked about the people that you name for things.
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Um and and that you name to be responsible for the decisions about your body, your you know, finances, all the things that happen.
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But now we're this episode, we're really focusing on who gets what.
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Right.
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And so we talked last time about the tension that can come between siblings and you know, why do you get to be mom's executor and not me?
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Um and and so that's been covered.
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Yep.
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But now when it's like, well, you know, why do you get that?
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That's worth five thousand dollars, and I got this and it's worth two hundred, you know, like well, yes, I a hundred percent follow.
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So it it varies and it depends on the situation, the family dynamic, and frankly, the person's intention with how they're doing things.
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Now, um when I talk with clients, there there's a different difference between fair and equitable, and what is fair is relative.
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And so, you know, I have some clients where fair means down to the penny.
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In those situations, appraisals.
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You know, you can have appraisals done, you can draft documents a certain way, that personal property is appraised, and the value of each item is considered, you know, yada yada yada.
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Um, in really contentious estate administrations, um, there's appraisal companies that will go through and they appraise every single item in the house.
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And that's one end of the extreme.
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What I will say is most commonly when it comes to the personal property things, I don't find that my clients get too ridiculously hung up on the value.
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Now, you know, I've had the clients that have art collections that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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I've had a few clients that have car collections that are significantly valuable.
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Um not a majority of the world, right?
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And so most people that we're working with, they have modest estates.
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They have um kind of what you would expect.
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And frankly, some of the this might seem surprising, but in my experience, some of the most uh uh emotion and contention wasn't necessarily due to dollar value, it was due to sentiment.
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So I have a colleague, another attorney, who will tell the story that one of the nastiest probates that she ever litigated, the core issue was around uh antique Swedish baking items.
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And they weren't necessarily worth much, but they had this really intense sentimental value and the uh emotions and the story that was attached to those items was what set things off.
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And there wasn't, you know, if mom had had something saying this person gets this item, this person gets this item, perhaps it wouldn't have spiraled as much as it did.
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Now I've actually this Kate, I'm gonna tell kind of a funny story because this came up recently um personally.
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My my mom is starting to, she's in her mid-70s and she's starting to get rid of things and downsize as she's thinking about uh not staying in her house for the next 20 years, you know.
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And uh She has a really nice jewelry collection.
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My parents are car dealers, they have cars, you know.
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Um she has really nice furniture.
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And I was visiting her and she said, you know, is there anything that you want to take?
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Blah, blah, blah.
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And there were these four little porcelain puppies.
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One was a cavalier, one was a little um golden retriever, another one was white with different spots.
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Like I remember them from when I was little, and by the way, kind of goofy.
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Like it was they were very it's not my mom's style, like whatever.
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But I have these memories of playing with them on the tile floor by the fireplace, and I really wanted those goofy porcelain puppies.
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And by the way, my mother never gets rid of ever anything.
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In fact, she brings up totes of things and says, If you don't want it, let me know, I'll take it back.
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And I'm like, Oh my god.
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Like, what are you gonna do if I don't want it?
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You're obviously trying to unload it, right?
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She had given them to goodwill.
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Oh no and she looked at me in horror and she goes, Rachel, because I went where they had been kept for, I don't know, 35 years and they weren't there.
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And I went, Where are those?
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And she goes, I took those to goodwill.
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And I was like, Oh my gosh, I wanted those.
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And she goes, The one thing that I took, and I was actually pretty bummed.
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Yeah.
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They're you know what they're probably worth two pennies, you know?
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Right.
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And I share that because it's easy to pass those things.
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And you know, I work, I I work with a lot of people who are planning for their children who are around my age or a little younger, and I share that story because I say, ask your kids.
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You might be surprised.
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You might be surprised what they want.
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My mom probably thought Rachel's gonna go, oh, can I have your wedding ring?
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Can I have the can I have that?
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No, I wanted the porcelain.
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Yeah.
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That that reminds me, well, my grandma passed really young at 67, um, but she she had nothing to her name.
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You know, she was an immigrant from Ireland.
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I mean, my grew up working three jobs, the biggest day of her life.
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She was a sandwich maker at Peters Grill downtown, and President Clinton ate there one day while she was making sandwiches she didn't make a sandwich, but that was a big day.
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She never got her driver's license, took the bus downtown, you know, just modest life, didn't have much.
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Um but I have a tin that she would always keep the lifesavers in above her.
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And when we were good on Saturdays, after, even if we weren't good, um, after we went with her to take her grocery shopping, she would pull that tin down and give us our thing of lifesavers.
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And also she had this little plaque above her um above the stove that says, like, so the little hen to the ro little rooster, well, you don't lay, why don't you lay any eggs anymore?
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So the little rooster, the little hen, well, you don't come around as often as ooster.
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I think I did it wrong.
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Rooster, ooster, rooster, ooster.
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But I just thought it was kind of funny.
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Yeah.
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And like a little like quirky.
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And I said, Grandma, you know, when you don't like that anymore, like, can I have it?
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So like basically when you're dead, can I have it?
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Yeah.
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And um, and I still have like the FedEx box that my mom saved it in that was like for Colleen when you know Grandma dies.
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Um it just is like the fact that it was saved for me is equally as and I have it as in a with a picture of her next, you know, that she has her little white castle uniform, and and that was one of her jobs too.
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And and I have it on my mantle in my living room, and it's little stuff like that that just kind of makes me smile because I think of her and I think about how I think about even the ask of it, you know, and the whole scenario.
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And it's like, right, but to someone else that doesn't mean something, you know, or they don't care.
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Like it is really good.
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Just give your kids the opportunity to um to claim something.
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Yes, and then you know, and you're not I feel sometimes I feel like partly my mom hangs on to things because she thinks we might want them.
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Right.
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And in the meantime, this miscommunication's happening and we're getting rid of the puppies and keeping the perhaps more valuable things, but where there's not a need, a desire, or a sentimental.
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And give give your kids the opportunity to have that to have that ask, you know, to say so that you can say, hey, I'm gonna start going through things and I'm gonna be starting to donate more so that it's not you guys' problems to deal with.
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Yeah.
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Is there something here that you really want that I that you've never told me about?
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Like, you know, do you want to walk around the house, put a post-it note on the back of it, you know, but just thinking of those items and knowing that you only know what you know, and you have no idea what someone is hoping to claim one day, you know, kind of over your dead body, as they say.
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You know, it's like some people might be like, I can't wait to get the dumpster and get rid of everything, but it's like, oh, I actually can't wait to claim a few things that I enjoyed during my childhood.
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So um, that can be an act of love, and and so we give you permission for that.
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Okay, when we come back, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna talk about some of the bigger things, like a house, a boat, a car.
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All right, sorting through life with Colleen Watterston and Rachel Schrowman will be right back.
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Welcome back to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watterston and Rachel Schrowman.
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So, Rachel Schrowman is here from Schrowman Law, and you do estate law and elder care law.
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And we are talking about what people leave behind and legally, legally uh need to have claimed or you know, put so with the the little items.
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Um, your suggestion from our last segment was to create a list that is referenced in the will and maybe you know in the document of all the things, but not necessarily written into the will because then it would have to be changed, you know, having something that's um a document that's referenced that could be changed more frequently to update items.
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So then there's also uh big items the house, the boat, the cars, the the bigger things.
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So how do people deal with the bigger things and I'm kind of thinking the higher value big things?
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Yeah.
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So I would say what's most typical is uh the higher value big things are just kind of regarded and treated as part of the entire estate.
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So for example, say um I have a client, they pass away, they own a house, they have a boat, they have a couple vehicles.
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It is more often than not likely that all of those items will be sold as part of the estate administration or the trust administration.
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Um of the money might be used to pay final medical bills, pay for the funeral, and then the money will be divided among the individuals inheriting.
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Okay.
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Now say that person has passed away and they have three kids, and one of the children says, uh, you know what, I actually really would like one of those vehicles.
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My car is kind of on its last leg.
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I like that vehicle, whatever.
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Our grandchild is gonna need a vehicle soon.
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Could you gift it in your will?
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No.
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Oh, I mean in your will, yeah.
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No, okay.
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Yeah.
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But um where I was gonna go with this is say one of the beneficiaries wants the car, the value of it can count as part of their inheritance.
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So my point is is rather than saying, I want this son to get my car, it can be left a little open-ended, and those types of things can be figured out at that time.
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Now, I do have clients that say I have a granddaughter who's, you know, 17, and if something happened to me in the next 10 years, she might need a vehicle.
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I just got a new Lexus, I want to leave it to her.
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Yes, that can be part of your estate plan, 100%.
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Okay.
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Um then is there any complication upon death?
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Uh you have to like pay taxes, or how does that work if if you get gifted a car?
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So it so first, it's state to state.
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Um in Minnesota, we do not have inheritance tax.
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So granddaughter inheriting the car, she's not gonna have to pay tax on that.
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Um we have estate tax, but that's only going to apply if the person who passed away has an estate over three million.
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Okay.
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Now the granddaughter inherits the car, she's gonna have to be able to pay the insurance, put gas in it, you know, do those types of things.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:50.640
Um, but she's not going to like pay a gift ta you know, she's not gonna have to pay tax on having gotten that item.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.119
So it can be as clean as a person gets this.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:55.519
Yes.
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.759
And that's and then that's out of the like that is really.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.720
Removed from the value of everything.
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:03.440
Correct.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:04.559
Yeah.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.599
And it and I do want to put in a little plug.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.680
Like this, this can get fact specific.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:17.519
You know, now if someone comes in to me and they have a four million dollar estate and they want to give one V$100,000 vehicle, you know, whatever.
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:34.960
Like so there can be fact specific, but one the an attorney's job is to sit down with you and identify what are your goals, what are your needs, what do you want to do, and then advise you on the most efficient and cost-effective way to make that happen.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:47.599
So I'm just thinking if I'm going into your office and I schedule an appointment, I called you after going to Schroomanlaw.com, Shroman S-C-H-R-O-M-E-N-Law.com.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:57.359
And ideally, I've already decluttered my life with a legacy lifter brought to me by Space by Space Organizing at Space Good Spots organizing.com.
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.319
So I'm feeling like I got a handle on things.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:01.200
Yes.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:24.400
When I go to you, is like if I want to be the best client ever and the most prepared to put the best, you know, legacy paperwork together, would it be beneficial to like walk around my house and just list everything of high value?
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:28.240
Like they say that the average person has 300,000 items in their life.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.519
Like that's a lot.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:33.359
So probably not all of them, like, but that's including a paperclip, you know.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:40.240
But there's a lot of stuff people have, but then there's the treasures, then there's the collections.
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:52.960
So if I'm going into my meeting, and I'm, you know, because we're we want to do this series to help people do estate planning better and and not just think about these things, but actually act on them.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.200
And if I'm some attorneys, you know, bucket, okay, this is what it's gonna cost to get your will together.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.400
And we're not tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, talking on every hour.
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.160
Some people might be hourly.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:09.519
You know, I know that normal people who aren't attorneys think expensive.
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:09.839
Yeah.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.720
You know, so how can I best prepare for my time to get the most out of my will?
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.759
So what I'll so your your your question started as is it helpful for me to go around and list out all the items?
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:22.079
Yeah.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.960
And my my response is no, not necessarily.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:31.440
We ask uh, so we do an intake, and and by the way, for the first meeting, keep it high level.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:48.480
Uh, if someone comes in and says, I want things to be very organized and I want every item to have a list of where it's going, then we're going to assign you homework and we're going to support you in, okay, here's what we recommend you do, and here's what we recommend we work on together.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.960
But we on the intake, we always ask a question of value of personal property.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:25:00.799
Now, most people come in and like many of us, they have average things and they'll go, I don't know.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.000
I mean, if you had a garage sale, my house would maybe do this.
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:15.200
But when we ask about personal property, what will happen is those, if someone does have those more special individual high value items, they'll make a note of that.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.279
And that's good for us to know.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:26.960
What I will say is the high value individual items like that, they uh they do not come up very often in typical estate planning.
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:31.440
And we don't work on a lot of estate plans where that's a high focus.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.240
I can talk about a few, you know, I can re think of a few.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:45.680
One, woman, actually, okay, so I've two clients who have had extensive Native American artifact collections where we did do inventories, accountings.
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:52.319
Uh, each of them are donating those items to specif a school and a um uh organization.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.519
And so there was some work around that to be done for that reason.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.440
Uh someone who had a very significant art collection that was high value.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:07.680
Um, I worked with a client who has two, this one was kind of a cool file, um, two uh Nobel Prizes.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:08.319
Wow.
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:13.519
And those private pri those prizes themselves are worth multiple six figures.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:15.519
Yeah, it was pretty Yeah, that was interesting.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:16.799
And it's personal property.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.000
So um, but that those are like one-offs, right?
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:21.599
And so That's incredible.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:31.519
What I will say is if a client walks into my office for their first meeting and they brought me like an eight-page spreadsheet of all of their personal property items, I'd be very I'd be a little overwhelmed.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.960
Um Okay, I won't add that to my offerings.
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:36.400
You could.
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:37.519
I mean, but that's the thing.
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.200
For them, for them.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.920
Every once in a while, we have someone who says, I want this list to be made.
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:51.279
And by the way, usually they're signing their estate planning documents with us long before that list is done.
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.920
That's kind of the beauty of having it as an attachment.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:11.200
And that and that's we're bouncing back a little to the last segment, you know, but when we're talking about, you know, passing those larger higher value items like vehicles and houses, that's when we sometimes get to more than putting together a list.
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:17.440
So for example, um, say I have I just got a brand new custom Porsche 911.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.519
That baby's worth close to 200K.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.039
This is a hypothetical.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.160
This is a hype, yeah.
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:22.640
Okay.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:27.440
Even if I could afford a car like that, I don't know that I could justify spending that kind of money.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:32.160
But let's say I'm on a date once with a guy who had like a very fancy car, and I was just like, he's not for me.
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:32.480
Yeah.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:33.759
We don't have the same values.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:42.319
So anyway, but say I do have that, and I'm like, I want this vehicle to go to my brother, and I go to an attorney.
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.839
The attorney's probably going to tell me, okay, here's what we can do.
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.039
Uh you have a couple options.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:52.799
One very easy option is you can do like a almost a beneficiary designation through the DMV.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:53.359
Great.
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:54.240
Oh, yep.
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:55.119
It's that easy.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:56.079
Can be.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.039
You also can own the car in a trust.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:06.880
Like there's multiple ways, but that's my point being is that's not necessarily like my Jeep's on a handwritten list.
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:08.720
My Jeep's not worth 200,000.
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:11.200
My Jeep's a 2019 Jeep, right?
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.440
But with those really like we've had some clients that have vehicle collections.
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.400
Well, some of those vehicles we have owned in trust.
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:23.599
I also have clients that have higher-end luxury vehicles, DMV visit.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:32.079
Um it's like having the bank account beneficiary so that it just passes directly to a person regardless of value.
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.599
The DMV beneficiary, yes, that car.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:39.440
And that's also then like the transfer and death deed.
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:40.160
Correct.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:40.640
Similar.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:48.079
So for I'll I'll offer this as a middle ground um uh manufactured homes.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.480
Those get dealt with with the DMV.
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:52.079
Because they're mobile.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.119
Correct.
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:54.000
Mm-hmm.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:00.640
And so when we work with people that have manufactured homes and they want to make certain they avoid manufacture homes, they're worth money.
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:10.319
I I've stayed, I I go to I have a very dear friend in Malibu who's in like the most gorgeous mobile home community overlooking the beach.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:19.680
And I'm so lucky to have this friend, and I've had some of the best days of my life, and they're all brought in, you know, like pre-made some stuff or finished.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.319
They're not cars, but they're also not land.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.240
Correct.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:47.039
You're like renting the land and that's DMV, and then when people have real estate or land and they want to pass it to a certain individual or individuals, and they want it to be very easy and straightforward, that's when we're having more of a step-up conversation of well, does passing the property by trust make sense?
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:54.400
Do we want the property or are we okay with the property going through probate, or do we want to talk about a transfer on death deed?
00:29:54.720 --> 00:30:05.279
And I think my whole goal with these episodes with us is to inspire thought, you know, and to say, start thinking about this.
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:11.599
Because, like I started this, none of us are getting out of this thing called life alive.
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:12.079
Right.
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.519
And I say leave a legacy, not a burden.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:15.759
Yep.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:29.519
And there are ways for people to, you know, there are ways to make life easier for the people who you leave behind versus a big headache.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:44.319
And like for myself, my goal is that when my I take my last breath and I am no longer in this, in this body, that people can just be sad they don't have me here.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:52.799
You know, like that's what you want is for people to be like, goodness, this really stinks to have to do life without the coolest person ever.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:31:17.279
And oh, and how nice of it of her to have put all of this, you know, really made sure that all of her estate situation was in order so that we can just be bummed that she's not here anymore, but follow this very well-written plan or like know that this is for me, know that I get this, and you know, avoid some of the hassle.
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:46.640
So we're not sitting here being like, okay, so if you have a house to go to that, you know, like yes, it's interesting to know about the DMV, and there's things that are interesting, but I think, you know, to to close this conversation from my point of view as somebody who helps people make sense of of items within their home, and that to me relates to, you know, I think I can take some family attention out of it by by having conversations with the the owner of items in advance.
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:54.319
You and an estate attorney has the ability to make things so much easier in the future.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:11.519
And so the the whole push to people listening right now is just think about the fact that one day you will not be here to speak on behalf of your things and everything that you've amassed and are what would happen if that day comes tomorrow.
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:13.039
Okay.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:15.839
Onward we go.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:16.400
Yes.
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:22.799
I think we'll take a quick little break um after that super fun call to action.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:31.119
Um, we'll be right back with Colleen Watterstone on Sorting Through Life, AM 950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota, and Rachel Schrooman, Shruman Law.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:49.839
Welcome back to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watterston on AM 950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:33:08.559
And I am here with Rachel Schrowman of Schrowman Law, Schrowman M-E-N Law, but they are full of women at Schrowman Law, uh female-owned and um very expertly operated business over there in St.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:09.279
St.
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:14.079
Paul, but serving anyone who wants to work with them, but in the state of Minnesota.
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:14.720
Correct.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:15.279
Okay.
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:28.559
We have talked about stuff, stuff being anything from items that, you know, antiques, uh uh wedding rings, all the items of one life one's life.
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:35.519
We've talked about the bigger items of like a home, of a car, of all that.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:43.039
And and I want to kind of talk briefly about those items not going to family.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:43.359
Yeah.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:52.480
And and then also just the idea of being able to like the impact that you can leave from the assets that you've acquired in this life.
00:33:52.880 --> 00:34:00.000
So, you know, when you're thinking ahead, there's a lot more options than after the fact.
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:10.559
You know, and I mean, I've done an episode with my dad all about the um a retired funeral director, all about the different things you can do with your body other than traditional burial and cremation.
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:25.599
And what I really wanted with that was like having a kind of casual conversation about something that you normally don't talk about, you know, and a lot of people don't talk about with their parents, and yet they're the ones that are making the decision for their parents.
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:37.840
But there are different unique ways to have your body, you know, memorialized or live on through becoming, you know, composted, or you know, just where you get scattered.
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:47.039
So, you know, my goal with this is just to, you know, inspire thought and more curiosity or more, you know, oh, I didn't even know I could do that.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.599
So there's always the the more natural beneficiaries.
00:34:51.840 --> 00:35:07.280
I have these kids, or I have this spouse, or I have this best friend, or you know, but so kind of speak to that, but speak to also like charity, you know, like I wanna leave.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:15.440
Yes, I'm gonna take care of my family, I'm gonna give people like, you know, enough, let's say like a hundred thousand dollars.
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:24.000
Okay, I want to give half of it to my family, and I want to get give half of it to a legacy, like to a charitable contribution.
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:25.039
How does that work?
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:25.840
Yeah.
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:37.760
Well there's a lot of ways that uh charitable intent or philanthropic intent can be included in estate planning all across the board.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:51.039
I have done charitable planning as simple as a woman I worked with has a$50 gift to the Animal Humane Society, first and foremost, before the rest of her estate gets split.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.360
Um she had very simple, modest estate, and we did a$50 gift.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.960
Amazing, um, great gift, you know.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:08.079
And then I've had clients where they leave the first three million to their kids and the other four million to charity in a private foundation.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:13.840
Um, so there's those are kind of two ends of the extreme, and then there's all sorts of things in between.
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:18.800
So with estate planning, you can do like a dollar amount gift.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:20.559
Um, you can also do a percentage.
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:36.800
So I have some clients that say, you know, I want the first five of five percent of my estate to go to these causes or to my community of faith or to these organizations that we support, and then the other 95% to these individuals.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.960
Some clients say, I want 100% of my estate to go to my children.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:45.920
If no children survive me, then in that situation I want some charities.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.199
Um, that's all charitable giving and charitable planning.
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:53.920
Now, I could sit here and start talking about charitable trusts and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:55.119
Donor advise funds.
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:56.239
Donor advise funds.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:58.960
I mean, it can get more complicated.
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:11.519
And so the question is I could go to your office for my first meeting of estate planning, and you could be the first person that I ask about how can I give I don't need to know it before I talk to you.
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.079
Correct.
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:23.199
And and what's most helpful from an attorney's perspective is when a client comes in and tells me what they want to do and why, and then I help them identify how.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:26.000
So, interesting case I recently worked on.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:35.039
A woman came into my office and uh she she and her spouse wanted, they came in and they said, here's what we are going to do.
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:43.920
We are going to leave this money to our children, and we are going to leave the rest of it to a private foundation that we want to establish in our name.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:58.480
And then she said, By the way, we want all of this to be very, very simple, not legally complex, low in cost, and we don't want it to take a bunch of our time or our kids' times.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:04.000
Well, a private foundation is there's some parameters around that.
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:04.480
Uh-huh.
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:04.719
Yeah.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:10.719
And there's legal costs and there's legal process and there's a board and you have to give a certain amount every year.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.840
And it's a good thing.
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:13.679
And so I started kind of cute.
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:15.840
And so I kind of checkbook for good.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.159
I gently was like, I want to talk about like, are you sure you want a private foundation?
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:20.960
Yes, we're sure.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.320
And I said, Okay, um, let's step back a minute.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:25.199
Talk to me.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:26.079
Like, what's going on?
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.039
What are your goal bubble?
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:32.000
And so we got all of that, and I said, I want to write, I'm gonna I'm gonna offer you an advice letter.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:35.920
We didn't have time to talk about it, but I said, I'm gonna put this together and I want you to read through it.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.360
I just want to lay out some options.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:44.159
And to make a long story longer, uh, they ended up doing a donor-advised fund, not a private foundation.
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:51.519
And I found a um, they did not end up naming their children as uh, you know, managing this donor advised fund or anything.
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:57.440
They found a foundation that aligned with their values and their goals.
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:08.800
And so sometimes when people come in from an attorney's point of view, if they come in and they say, This is what I want and this is what I need, it can kind of actually throw us off a bit.
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:16.079
Um, and I've had clients that have done that and we get partway into the work, and then I'm going, wait, why are we doing this?
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:18.480
And then I go, but pause, pause, pause.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:23.679
You you came in, you said you wanted this document, but now it seems like you want this, this, and this.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.599
Well, yeah, those are the things I want.
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:29.599
And I'm like, uh, well, we're on the wrong trail doing this document.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.880
So thinking of what you want and why.
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:39.119
Um you know, when we were on the break, you had kind of mentioned like, can people donate their house places?
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:50.400
Uh I had a woman I worked with once and she came in and she said, uh I want to do a transfer on death deed to leave my house to this organization that I donate money to.
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:55.199
Well, the first thing we always do is we check with the organization.
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.920
Um, hi, organization, do you accept gifts of real estate?
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.599
And if so, do you accept it directly?
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:08.719
Because if someone does a transfer on death deed on their house to an organization, guess what?
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.920
The organization owns the house.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.159
They have to sell it, they have to, they assume liability.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.280
Um, it can actually become a burden and an expense.
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:18.159
Totally.
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:24.480
Uh the organization that she wanted to leave it to uh said, Well, uh, we've never really had that before.
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:25.119
What's this about?
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:25.679
Blah, blah, blah.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.960
And so I went back to the client and I said, Do you want to leave this house to this organization?
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:30.239
Uh, what's your goal with that?
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:40.880
And she said, Well, the specific organization um helped children who had been estranged or frankly disowned because they came out as gay to their parents.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:45.119
And she said, I want there to be a house where these children can land safely and live.
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.159
Well, this organization didn't provide housing, but guess what?
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.039
Now they can.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:49.519
No.
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:50.159
No, they don't.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.519
No, they're not in the business of it.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:51.840
Okay.
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.719
But we were able to find another organization that did.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:55.280
Okay.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:17.199
And so that started as, you know, like, and that and that's part of the legal process, and this is what attorneys should be doing, is when, you know, a client tells you, I want to leave a house for this purpose to this charity, the next step is we reach out to the charity and we're like, what's the best way to effectuate this goal?
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:21.119
And by the way, is this something the organization can do?
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:29.039
And so that client ended up leaving her house to this other organization that is in the business of taking that house and setting up housing.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:36.400
And I think she did um, I think she named the other organization as part of a beneficiary on like an IRA or something.
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:40.400
Um But there's different ways to, you know, figure that out.
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:56.320
And and I know, I know in your work, I imagine that, you know, if you're working with someone who's downsizing after a death, you know, if they have six bikes in the garage, maybe those are going to an organization that uses those bikes for veterans.
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:07.760
Like being able, that's another example of how charity and philanthropy and more of that giving back can happen on the front end or or the back end.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:08.559
Right.
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:28.159
And and ideally, you know, and I'm encouraging people to do it for themselves so that you know it's like I say leave a legacy not a burden all the time, but it's like if you think it's a lot to figure out where these bikes should go that'll make you feel good, so do your kids, probably.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.920
You know, like that's putting it on them, you know.
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:32.880
I've yeah.
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:44.960
What's interesting, I notice when when I bring something up to you, I feel like my natural kind of more controlling my brain, you know, like, oh, I can get this cued up for her.
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:51.440
Oh, I can, I would go and should we bring it, you know, practically drafted so that it's just easier.
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:59.519
And a lot of the times that I suggest how I would show up, you very politely let me know that that makes your job harder.
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:14.480
And and I think that's good to know, and I'm glad to be the person that says it to you so that people listening can be like, oh, oh, don't do what Colleen suggested and and let Rachel do her job.
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:20.159
Because that's also like when I'm in people's houses, and sometimes they want to be really part of the process.
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:28.159
And I'm like, so respectfully, you didn't get this organized in like five years, you were telling me, and I'm I'm gonna do it in a day.
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:32.880
Um, but I it's not actually gonna help me if you're here helping, like helping in quotes.
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:40.000
You know, it's like yes, yes, you're an extra set of hands, but you're also gonna talk and bring up the guilt that you feel, and like you let me just do this.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:41.679
Yeah, this is what I do.
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.800
Like, yep, like you are in good hands.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:59.679
I'm very good at making sense of stuff, of creating calm from chaos, of seeing this massive mess and turning it into something that has a lot of order, and you telling me where you think things should.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:08.239
Go and how that like I'll listen, you know, I I want to know your main goal and I want to know your pressure points and I want to know what I can fix.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:18.719
And and when I come to your house, please don't clean it up so that I can see it as is as it is and bring my problem-solving brain, you know, that's what I'm here to do.
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:19.039
Yeah.
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:23.039
I'm not gonna make a meal at the end of the day, but I need to know what meals you're making.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:38.800
It feels like a lot of what comes up is like have the ideas, have the questions, but then don't try to solve them all before you get to you, because that might just go to the lawyer and say, How do I do that?
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:46.880
Well, then it comes from a place of trying to be helpful because I do the same thing constantly with other with professionals, you know.
00:44:47.119 --> 00:45:04.400
And I've had to teach myself, yes, one, to let people do their jobs, but two, to remind myself that I'm allowed to accept help and I'm allowed to not do everything.
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:09.679
And it comes from this place of like, well, I need to be, I I'm gonna be helpful and I'm gonna make their job easier.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.440
And it's like, no, I'm I'm making my life harder and their life harder.
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:19.199
And I and I have a hard time receiving support and letting people come in and just do what they do.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:30.079
I I made a referral to you uh last week, I think, and I actually just the um client that I referred to, you know, she just experienced a stroke.
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:31.840
She's widowed.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:51.519
Um she's going through a very hard time, and her house, when she returns home, and and you know about this, but I'll, you know, for the listeners, when she returns home, in order for her to come home and have the equipment she needs and be able to navigate the house safely, uh, organizing and restructuring of the home needs to happen.
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:57.840
And I got an email from a family member who's helping her with all of this that said she won't be home for three to four weeks.
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:02.639
Should we wait to get things started until she's back so she can oversee it?
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.880
And I was like, Oh dear God.
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:08.880
And I guarantee you they're like, she should really be there.
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:11.440
This is not fair to the person we're hiring.
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:16.639
And this particular client probably feels this sense of responsibility because it's her house.
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:23.519
And I immediately responded and I said, One, I think it is ideal that this gets done before she comes back.
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.840
And also, like she's returning home from having a stroke and now she's having to oversee.
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.599
No, give her the gift of not having to deal with it.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:39.119
I I will just say though, like I am very big not throwing people's stuff away without their permission.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:39.760
Totally.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:47:01.840
So I will say, um, you know, to to kind of say, oh, well, in my point of expertise, like if there's any thought that there will be anxiety that comes from coming back home and your stuff is not there, um, not to, you know, like call me first so that I can have that conversation with people.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:02.800
Well, and that's right.
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.599
You know, it's like and the bottom line is when I'm sure when you get hired, you're setting those parameters and learning that.
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.000
And like learning, I shared with this client.
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:18.239
Professionals know what should be thrown away and what shouldn't, and professionals know how to organize things to be gone through later.
00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:24.719
So on that note, uh, we are two very trusted, amazing professionals here in the Twin Cities area.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:30.480
Um, call Rachel Schrowman for uh any of your estate planning needs.
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:36.639
Call Colleen Waterston, 612-747-1331.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:48.800
Call Colleen for stuff for the organizing of all of your things, and call Rachel for the organizing of your estate documents.
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:54.400
And listen to us as much as you'd like on AM950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota.
00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:09.519
Welcome, welcome to Storting Through Life with Colleen Watston on AM950, the progressive voice of Minnesota.
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:22.640
I am Colleen Watston, your host, and also the owner and lead organizer of Space by Space Organizing, a home organizing business here in the Twin Cities of wonderful Minnesota.
00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:34.880
And I am here today with Rachel Schrowman, our show's resident estate attorney, elder law attorney, and general great gal.
00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:48.320
Um today we are going to talk about stuff, about downsizing, about leaving your belongings behind.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:59.200
That could be everything from the diamond ring, the house, and the cash, you know, or the investment.
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:06.239
There's so much that we accumulate in our life, and and then it's that we let it go.
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:12.879
And I think when designing this um show, I always knew I wanted to have an estate attorney be involved.
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:40.079
Um, but I am the daughter of a funeral director, and I've realized especially I've had my business for um a few plus years now, and so I've realized how much growing up in a funeral business and surrounded by the fact that we all die and just having that be part of life is unique and has really informed my values and my like carpe diem approach.
00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:48.560
I have I have a travel memoir I'm gonna put out in the world one day, but I described that like my dad was the epitome of stable as I grew up.
00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:53.760
Like he's always been so stable at the helm of a family funeral business, I think is what I say.
00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:19.840
But that gave me, but he never stood in my way of you know carpe diem dieming you know my life away because I think it was like to be raised by somebody who saw death at all ages and all circumstances, and you know, in the middle of a rise in life and you're just taken out of it, and in you know, in the middle of just after having a child, um, you know, children.
00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:34.639
And um, and so to be raised very intimately in that environment and just kind of have it be a backdrop to how I saw the world um I think is just so formative.
00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:39.680
I've really learned it's so formative, and I think that it also is enormously motivating for me.
00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:48.240
I don't find the fact that we die depressing, I find the fact that we live exciting and motivating.
00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:51.280
And what am I going to do with my life?
00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:59.199
And how can I, you know, and I love helping people get out of their own way so that they can live an amazing life.
00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:18.080
But if we are here, that's the one thing we have in common, is that if you are a human in human form, in breathing and experiencing this earth through through it, you one day won't be.
00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:29.520
You know, your your soul will pass and your body will will be what once housed it, and you will not, you know, not to get to any spiritual belief, just that we die.
00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:37.039
And we don't really know, you know, some people have better ideas about what happens and some people don't, but but we won't be here.
00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:52.000
And no matter how much money somebody has, no matter how much power or prestige someone has in their life, not a single person has been able to take their stuff with them to heaven.
00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:57.680
You know, we have Egyptian gods who bury or Egyptian pharaohs who buried their stuff with them in pyramids.
00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:09.199
We have, you know, the Taj Mahal is like this gorgeous funeral, you know, um final resting place for some fancy person's lover, I think, you know, or second, yeah.
00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:16.000
We've we've memorialized people, we've shrined things, but there's a lot of stuff people leave behind.
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:55.439
And where you come in, Rachel, is helping people to plan what happens and what they would like to happen to everything that they have accumulated, which is an an item, like a small item, a massive asset, investment accounts, debt, you know, um, and also like even legacy and kind of some of those more intangibles of, you know, we're gonna talk at the end about m money and and gifting and leaving behind, you know, a legacy through through a charitable gift.
00:04:55.759 --> 00:05:02.560
So I help people, it's pretty straightforward, go to my website, Space by Space Organizing.
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:09.920
I help people go through their their items and and I can speak to that all day, but but you're here.
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:31.920
So um when people have their items, yeah, how does that how does like a will, how does writing it down, how does the legal element come into place with who gets what, where things go, and expressing your wishes for when you are no longer the keeper?
00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:43.519
So with like tan what we what we call items or more like the the things that you have in your house, uh we call it tangible personal property.
00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:59.519
Uh your precious moments collections, your cars, your furniture, your jewelry, your family heirlooms, uh those types of personal property can often be passed uh by a written list.
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Now at our office, when we draft documents, we put language in wills or trusts that will legally incorporate a list that can be kept with your document that just needs to be signed and dated and can be updated by you without having to update the entire document.
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:27.680
So every once in a while I'll have a client come in and they say, Well, I really want to make certain that my ring, my wedding ring, goes to my daughter.
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I really want uh well, my my gun collection to go to my son.
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I really want the piano that I got from my grandma to go to my sister.
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Um we can draft those things directly into a will.
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And if you want to change it later, you're then doing a legal process to update.
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However, for those types of things, as long as they're not, you know, if you have an original Monet painting, don't put that on a list.
00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:03.279
That's worth a lot.
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High value items are gonna have a different impact.
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Uh, you can't put cash on a written list.
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You can't put$25,000 to this person.
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You actually coin collections are considered cash.
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Those can't go on written lists.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Um and then real property land, you can't pass that by a list.
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But for those other more sentimental but just as important, if not more important, things, a written list is a really slick way to do it.
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Uh so for example, I've uh I have a trust in place.
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I've updated my personal property list once or twice, but I haven't had to update the actual trust itself.
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Now, arguably for me, I can sit and draft my own amendment, but I still have to do it.
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I still have to find two witnesses, I still have to pull someone to notarize it.
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Really nice when I can just get the list out, uh, update that, sign it, date it, put it away.
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Right.
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And that's something like hiring, you know, my business with legacy lifters, like we can help go through your house and make that list.
00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:07.600
And make the list.
00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:21.279
You know, and and also even attach, you know, I'm working with a client that we're you know capturing the stories around some of the items so that we can make sure that you know you know why where did this come from.
00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:34.000
And you know, one of one of the things was this big uh piece of art, and I asked her the story on an audio um with Remento as the platform where I had Charlie Green, the CEO on.
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And so we're eventually gonna have a book that's like a catalog of these more important items to her with the story in a QR code that you can pull up and listen.
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But it wasn't as much about the item.
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They just liked it on a trip.
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It was fun to hear that you know, getting it back through they there was nowhere that it fit on the airplane.
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Oh and they ended up like the pilots put it, this was probably a long time ago, they wouldn't do it now, but you know, decades ago when there were less regulations, um, the pilots flew with this parrot from it was a piece of art, like a parrot that um and they said, Do you mind having this parrot up in there, you know, in the cockpit?
00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:20.559
And so that was kind of the fun story about it, to think, okay, well, when the day comes that someone's like, What is I don't even know where they got this, like where was that?
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It's it's documented.
00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:36.559
But so just having a list, how much do you find people wanting to itemize by value so that siblings, you know, our last episode that we had, we talked about the people that you name for things.
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Um and and that you name to be responsible for the decisions about your body, your you know, finances, all the things that happen.
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But now we're this episode, we're really focusing on who gets what.
00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:51.039
Right.
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And so we talked last time about the tension that can come between siblings and you know, why do you get to be mom's executor and not me?
00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.120
Um and and so that's been covered.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:03.360
Yep.
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.840
But now when it's like, well, you know, why do you get that?
00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:14.639
That's worth five thousand dollars, and I got this and it's worth two hundred, you know, like well, yes, I a hundred percent follow.
00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:27.279
So it it varies and it depends on the situation, the family dynamic, and frankly, the person's intention with how they're doing things.
00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:35.840
Now, um when I talk with clients, there there's a different difference between fair and equitable, and what is fair is relative.
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.960
And so, you know, I have some clients where fair means down to the penny.
00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:44.480
In those situations, appraisals.
00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:53.679
You know, you can have appraisals done, you can draft documents a certain way, that personal property is appraised, and the value of each item is considered, you know, yada yada yada.
00:10:54.080 --> 00:11:03.840
Um, in really contentious estate administrations, um, there's appraisal companies that will go through and they appraise every single item in the house.
00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:06.720
And that's one end of the extreme.
00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:19.759
What I will say is most commonly when it comes to the personal property things, I don't find that my clients get too ridiculously hung up on the value.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:26.000
Now, you know, I've had the clients that have art collections that are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:30.399
I've had a few clients that have car collections that are significantly valuable.
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:34.879
Um not a majority of the world, right?
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:41.360
And so most people that we're working with, they have modest estates.
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.240
They have um kind of what you would expect.
00:11:44.480 --> 00:12:01.840
And frankly, some of the this might seem surprising, but in my experience, some of the most uh uh emotion and contention wasn't necessarily due to dollar value, it was due to sentiment.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:15.519
So I have a colleague, another attorney, who will tell the story that one of the nastiest probates that she ever litigated, the core issue was around uh antique Swedish baking items.
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:32.559
And they weren't necessarily worth much, but they had this really intense sentimental value and the uh emotions and the story that was attached to those items was what set things off.
00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:42.320
And there wasn't, you know, if mom had had something saying this person gets this item, this person gets this item, perhaps it wouldn't have spiraled as much as it did.
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:49.039
Now I've actually this Kate, I'm gonna tell kind of a funny story because this came up recently um personally.
00:12:49.360 --> 00:13:02.000
My my mom is starting to, she's in her mid-70s and she's starting to get rid of things and downsize as she's thinking about uh not staying in her house for the next 20 years, you know.
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:05.519
And uh She has a really nice jewelry collection.
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My parents are car dealers, they have cars, you know.
00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:10.320
Um she has really nice furniture.
00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:14.000
And I was visiting her and she said, you know, is there anything that you want to take?
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:14.799
Blah, blah, blah.
00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:18.399
And there were these four little porcelain puppies.
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One was a cavalier, one was a little um golden retriever, another one was white with different spots.
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:29.279
Like I remember them from when I was little, and by the way, kind of goofy.
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:33.200
Like it was they were very it's not my mom's style, like whatever.
00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:41.840
But I have these memories of playing with them on the tile floor by the fireplace, and I really wanted those goofy porcelain puppies.
00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:44.960
And by the way, my mother never gets rid of ever anything.
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:49.759
In fact, she brings up totes of things and says, If you don't want it, let me know, I'll take it back.
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:51.039
And I'm like, Oh my god.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:52.720
Like, what are you gonna do if I don't want it?
00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:54.399
You're obviously trying to unload it, right?
00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:56.399
She had given them to goodwill.
00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:04.399
Oh no and she looked at me in horror and she goes, Rachel, because I went where they had been kept for, I don't know, 35 years and they weren't there.
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:05.600
And I went, Where are those?
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:07.679
And she goes, I took those to goodwill.
00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:09.200
And I was like, Oh my gosh, I wanted those.
00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:14.399
And she goes, The one thing that I took, and I was actually pretty bummed.
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:15.279
Yeah.
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.360
They're you know what they're probably worth two pennies, you know?
00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:20.000
Right.
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:25.440
And I share that because it's easy to pass those things.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:34.320
And you know, I work, I I work with a lot of people who are planning for their children who are around my age or a little younger, and I share that story because I say, ask your kids.
00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:35.120
You might be surprised.
00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:37.200
You might be surprised what they want.
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.639
My mom probably thought Rachel's gonna go, oh, can I have your wedding ring?
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:41.919
Can I have the can I have that?
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.120
No, I wanted the porcelain.
00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:44.879
Yeah.
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:54.480
That that reminds me, well, my grandma passed really young at 67, um, but she she had nothing to her name.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.320
You know, she was an immigrant from Ireland.
00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:00.399
I mean, my grew up working three jobs, the biggest day of her life.
00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:09.519
She was a sandwich maker at Peters Grill downtown, and President Clinton ate there one day while she was making sandwiches she didn't make a sandwich, but that was a big day.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:15.039
She never got her driver's license, took the bus downtown, you know, just modest life, didn't have much.
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:19.519
Um but I have a tin that she would always keep the lifesavers in above her.
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:29.360
And when we were good on Saturdays, after, even if we weren't good, um, after we went with her to take her grocery shopping, she would pull that tin down and give us our thing of lifesavers.
00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:41.200
And also she had this little plaque above her um above the stove that says, like, so the little hen to the ro little rooster, well, you don't lay, why don't you lay any eggs anymore?
00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.840
So the little rooster, the little hen, well, you don't come around as often as ooster.
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:46.879
I think I did it wrong.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:49.279
Rooster, ooster, rooster, ooster.
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:50.799
But I just thought it was kind of funny.
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:51.039
Yeah.
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.039
And like a little like quirky.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:58.720
And I said, Grandma, you know, when you don't like that anymore, like, can I have it?
00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:00.720
So like basically when you're dead, can I have it?
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:01.039
Yeah.
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:08.960
And um, and I still have like the FedEx box that my mom saved it in that was like for Colleen when you know Grandma dies.
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:24.240
Um it just is like the fact that it was saved for me is equally as and I have it as in a with a picture of her next, you know, that she has her little white castle uniform, and and that was one of her jobs too.
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:36.799
And and I have it on my mantle in my living room, and it's little stuff like that that just kind of makes me smile because I think of her and I think about how I think about even the ask of it, you know, and the whole scenario.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.919
And it's like, right, but to someone else that doesn't mean something, you know, or they don't care.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:43.840
Like it is really good.
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:47.759
Just give your kids the opportunity to um to claim something.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:55.919
Yes, and then you know, and you're not I feel sometimes I feel like partly my mom hangs on to things because she thinks we might want them.
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:56.559
Right.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:07.920
And in the meantime, this miscommunication's happening and we're getting rid of the puppies and keeping the perhaps more valuable things, but where there's not a need, a desire, or a sentimental.
00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:22.720
And give give your kids the opportunity to have that to have that ask, you know, to say so that you can say, hey, I'm gonna start going through things and I'm gonna be starting to donate more so that it's not you guys' problems to deal with.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:23.119
Yeah.
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:26.960
Is there something here that you really want that I that you've never told me about?
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:43.119
Like, you know, do you want to walk around the house, put a post-it note on the back of it, you know, but just thinking of those items and knowing that you only know what you know, and you have no idea what someone is hoping to claim one day, you know, kind of over your dead body, as they say.
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:52.480
You know, it's like some people might be like, I can't wait to get the dumpster and get rid of everything, but it's like, oh, I actually can't wait to claim a few things that I enjoyed during my childhood.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:57.440
So um, that can be an act of love, and and so we give you permission for that.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:05.279
Okay, when we come back, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna talk about some of the bigger things, like a house, a boat, a car.
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:09.680
All right, sorting through life with Colleen Watterston and Rachel Schrowman will be right back.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:24.640
Welcome back to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watterston and Rachel Schrowman.
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:31.599
So, Rachel Schrowman is here from Schrowman Law, and you do estate law and elder care law.
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:44.319
And we are talking about what people leave behind and legally, legally uh need to have claimed or you know, put so with the the little items.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:19:07.359
Um, your suggestion from our last segment was to create a list that is referenced in the will and maybe you know in the document of all the things, but not necessarily written into the will because then it would have to be changed, you know, having something that's um a document that's referenced that could be changed more frequently to update items.
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:15.119
So then there's also uh big items the house, the boat, the cars, the the bigger things.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:24.079
So how do people deal with the bigger things and I'm kind of thinking the higher value big things?
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:24.640
Yeah.
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:36.400
So I would say what's most typical is uh the higher value big things are just kind of regarded and treated as part of the entire estate.
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:44.720
So for example, say um I have a client, they pass away, they own a house, they have a boat, they have a couple vehicles.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:55.119
It is more often than not likely that all of those items will be sold as part of the estate administration or the trust administration.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:04.240
Um of the money might be used to pay final medical bills, pay for the funeral, and then the money will be divided among the individuals inheriting.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:04.799
Okay.
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:13.119
Now say that person has passed away and they have three kids, and one of the children says, uh, you know what, I actually really would like one of those vehicles.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.920
My car is kind of on its last leg.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.519
I like that vehicle, whatever.
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.720
Our grandchild is gonna need a vehicle soon.
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.440
Could you gift it in your will?
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:23.920
No.
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:25.599
Oh, I mean in your will, yeah.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:26.319
No, okay.
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:26.880
Yeah.
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:36.319
But um where I was gonna go with this is say one of the beneficiaries wants the car, the value of it can count as part of their inheritance.
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:48.720
So my point is is rather than saying, I want this son to get my car, it can be left a little open-ended, and those types of things can be figured out at that time.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:57.599
Now, I do have clients that say I have a granddaughter who's, you know, 17, and if something happened to me in the next 10 years, she might need a vehicle.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.240
I just got a new Lexus, I want to leave it to her.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.880
Yes, that can be part of your estate plan, 100%.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:03.680
Okay.
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:08.319
Um then is there any complication upon death?
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.599
Uh you have to like pay taxes, or how does that work if if you get gifted a car?
00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:17.200
So it so first, it's state to state.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:21.759
Um in Minnesota, we do not have inheritance tax.
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.119
So granddaughter inheriting the car, she's not gonna have to pay tax on that.
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:36.720
Um we have estate tax, but that's only going to apply if the person who passed away has an estate over three million.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:37.200
Okay.
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:44.079
Now the granddaughter inherits the car, she's gonna have to be able to pay the insurance, put gas in it, you know, do those types of things.
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:50.640
Um, but she's not going to like pay a gift ta you know, she's not gonna have to pay tax on having gotten that item.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.119
So it can be as clean as a person gets this.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:55.519
Yes.
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.759
And that's and then that's out of the like that is really.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.720
Removed from the value of everything.
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:03.440
Correct.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:04.559
Yeah.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.599
And it and I do want to put in a little plug.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.680
Like this, this can get fact specific.
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:17.519
You know, now if someone comes in to me and they have a four million dollar estate and they want to give one V$100,000 vehicle, you know, whatever.
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:34.960
Like so there can be fact specific, but one the an attorney's job is to sit down with you and identify what are your goals, what are your needs, what do you want to do, and then advise you on the most efficient and cost-effective way to make that happen.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:47.599
So I'm just thinking if I'm going into your office and I schedule an appointment, I called you after going to Schroomanlaw.com, Shroman S-C-H-R-O-M-E-N-Law.com.
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:57.359
And ideally, I've already decluttered my life with a legacy lifter brought to me by Space by Space Organizing at Space Good Spots organizing.com.
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.319
So I'm feeling like I got a handle on things.
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:01.200
Yes.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:24.400
When I go to you, is like if I want to be the best client ever and the most prepared to put the best, you know, legacy paperwork together, would it be beneficial to like walk around my house and just list everything of high value?
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:28.240
Like they say that the average person has 300,000 items in their life.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:29.519
Like that's a lot.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:33.359
So probably not all of them, like, but that's including a paperclip, you know.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:40.240
But there's a lot of stuff people have, but then there's the treasures, then there's the collections.
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:52.960
So if I'm going into my meeting, and I'm, you know, because we're we want to do this series to help people do estate planning better and and not just think about these things, but actually act on them.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.200
And if I'm some attorneys, you know, bucket, okay, this is what it's gonna cost to get your will together.
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.400
And we're not tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, talking on every hour.
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.160
Some people might be hourly.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:09.519
You know, I know that normal people who aren't attorneys think expensive.
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:09.839
Yeah.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.720
You know, so how can I best prepare for my time to get the most out of my will?
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.759
So what I'll so your your your question started as is it helpful for me to go around and list out all the items?
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:22.079
Yeah.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.960
And my my response is no, not necessarily.
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:31.440
We ask uh, so we do an intake, and and by the way, for the first meeting, keep it high level.
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:48.480
Uh, if someone comes in and says, I want things to be very organized and I want every item to have a list of where it's going, then we're going to assign you homework and we're going to support you in, okay, here's what we recommend you do, and here's what we recommend we work on together.
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.960
But we on the intake, we always ask a question of value of personal property.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:25:00.799
Now, most people come in and like many of us, they have average things and they'll go, I don't know.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.000
I mean, if you had a garage sale, my house would maybe do this.
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:15.200
But when we ask about personal property, what will happen is those, if someone does have those more special individual high value items, they'll make a note of that.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.279
And that's good for us to know.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:26.960
What I will say is the high value individual items like that, they uh they do not come up very often in typical estate planning.
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:31.440
And we don't work on a lot of estate plans where that's a high focus.
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.240
I can talk about a few, you know, I can re think of a few.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:45.680
One, woman, actually, okay, so I've two clients who have had extensive Native American artifact collections where we did do inventories, accountings.
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:52.319
Uh, each of them are donating those items to specif a school and a um uh organization.
00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.519
And so there was some work around that to be done for that reason.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.440
Uh someone who had a very significant art collection that was high value.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:07.680
Um, I worked with a client who has two, this one was kind of a cool file, um, two uh Nobel Prizes.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:08.319
Wow.
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:13.519
And those private pri those prizes themselves are worth multiple six figures.
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:15.519
Yeah, it was pretty Yeah, that was interesting.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:16.799
And it's personal property.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.000
So um, but that those are like one-offs, right?
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:21.599
And so That's incredible.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:31.519
What I will say is if a client walks into my office for their first meeting and they brought me like an eight-page spreadsheet of all of their personal property items, I'd be very I'd be a little overwhelmed.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.960
Um Okay, I won't add that to my offerings.
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:36.400
You could.
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:37.519
I mean, but that's the thing.
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.200
For them, for them.
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.920
Every once in a while, we have someone who says, I want this list to be made.
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:51.279
And by the way, usually they're signing their estate planning documents with us long before that list is done.
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:53.920
That's kind of the beauty of having it as an attachment.
00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:11.200
And that and that's we're bouncing back a little to the last segment, you know, but when we're talking about, you know, passing those larger higher value items like vehicles and houses, that's when we sometimes get to more than putting together a list.
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:17.440
So for example, um, say I have I just got a brand new custom Porsche 911.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.519
That baby's worth close to 200K.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.039
This is a hypothetical.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:22.160
This is a hype, yeah.
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:22.640
Okay.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:27.440
Even if I could afford a car like that, I don't know that I could justify spending that kind of money.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:32.160
But let's say I'm on a date once with a guy who had like a very fancy car, and I was just like, he's not for me.
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:32.480
Yeah.
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:33.759
We don't have the same values.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:42.319
So anyway, but say I do have that, and I'm like, I want this vehicle to go to my brother, and I go to an attorney.
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.839
The attorney's probably going to tell me, okay, here's what we can do.
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:47.039
Uh you have a couple options.
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:52.799
One very easy option is you can do like a almost a beneficiary designation through the DMV.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:53.359
Great.
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:54.240
Oh, yep.
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:55.119
It's that easy.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:56.079
Can be.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.039
You also can own the car in a trust.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:06.880
Like there's multiple ways, but that's my point being is that's not necessarily like my Jeep's on a handwritten list.
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:08.720
My Jeep's not worth 200,000.
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:11.200
My Jeep's a 2019 Jeep, right?
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.440
But with those really like we've had some clients that have vehicle collections.
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.400
Well, some of those vehicles we have owned in trust.
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:23.599
I also have clients that have higher-end luxury vehicles, DMV visit.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:32.079
Um it's like having the bank account beneficiary so that it just passes directly to a person regardless of value.
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:35.599
The DMV beneficiary, yes, that car.
00:28:35.839 --> 00:28:39.440
And that's also then like the transfer and death deed.
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:40.160
Correct.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:40.640
Similar.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:48.079
So for I'll I'll offer this as a middle ground um uh manufactured homes.
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:50.480
Those get dealt with with the DMV.
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:52.079
Because they're mobile.
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:53.119
Correct.
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:54.000
Mm-hmm.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:29:00.640
And so when we work with people that have manufactured homes and they want to make certain they avoid manufacture homes, they're worth money.
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:10.319
I I've stayed, I I go to I have a very dear friend in Malibu who's in like the most gorgeous mobile home community overlooking the beach.
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:19.680
And I'm so lucky to have this friend, and I've had some of the best days of my life, and they're all brought in, you know, like pre-made some stuff or finished.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.319
They're not cars, but they're also not land.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.240
Correct.
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:47.039
You're like renting the land and that's DMV, and then when people have real estate or land and they want to pass it to a certain individual or individuals, and they want it to be very easy and straightforward, that's when we're having more of a step-up conversation of well, does passing the property by trust make sense?
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:54.400
Do we want the property or are we okay with the property going through probate, or do we want to talk about a transfer on death deed?
00:29:54.720 --> 00:30:05.279
And I think my whole goal with these episodes with us is to inspire thought, you know, and to say, start thinking about this.
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:11.599
Because, like I started this, none of us are getting out of this thing called life alive.
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:12.079
Right.
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.519
And I say leave a legacy, not a burden.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:15.759
Yep.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:29.519
And there are ways for people to, you know, there are ways to make life easier for the people who you leave behind versus a big headache.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:44.319
And like for myself, my goal is that when my I take my last breath and I am no longer in this, in this body, that people can just be sad they don't have me here.
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:52.799
You know, like that's what you want is for people to be like, goodness, this really stinks to have to do life without the coolest person ever.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:31:17.279
And oh, and how nice of it of her to have put all of this, you know, really made sure that all of her estate situation was in order so that we can just be bummed that she's not here anymore, but follow this very well-written plan or like know that this is for me, know that I get this, and you know, avoid some of the hassle.
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:46.640
So we're not sitting here being like, okay, so if you have a house to go to that, you know, like yes, it's interesting to know about the DMV, and there's things that are interesting, but I think, you know, to to close this conversation from my point of view as somebody who helps people make sense of of items within their home, and that to me relates to, you know, I think I can take some family attention out of it by by having conversations with the the owner of items in advance.
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:54.319
You and an estate attorney has the ability to make things so much easier in the future.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:11.519
And so the the whole push to people listening right now is just think about the fact that one day you will not be here to speak on behalf of your things and everything that you've amassed and are what would happen if that day comes tomorrow.
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:13.039
Okay.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:15.839
Onward we go.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:16.400
Yes.
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:22.799
I think we'll take a quick little break um after that super fun call to action.
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:31.119
Um, we'll be right back with Colleen Watterstone on Sorting Through Life, AM 950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota, and Rachel Schrooman, Shruman Law.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:49.839
Welcome back to Sorting Through Life with Colleen Watterston on AM 950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:33:08.559
And I am here with Rachel Schrowman of Schrowman Law, Schrowman M-E-N Law, but they are full of women at Schrowman Law, uh female-owned and um very expertly operated business over there in St.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:09.279
St.
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:14.079
Paul, but serving anyone who wants to work with them, but in the state of Minnesota.
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:14.720
Correct.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:15.279
Okay.
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:28.559
We have talked about stuff, stuff being anything from items that, you know, antiques, uh uh wedding rings, all the items of one life one's life.
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:35.519
We've talked about the bigger items of like a home, of a car, of all that.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:43.039
And and I want to kind of talk briefly about those items not going to family.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:43.359
Yeah.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:52.480
And and then also just the idea of being able to like the impact that you can leave from the assets that you've acquired in this life.
00:33:52.880 --> 00:34:00.000
So, you know, when you're thinking ahead, there's a lot more options than after the fact.
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:10.559
You know, and I mean, I've done an episode with my dad all about the um a retired funeral director, all about the different things you can do with your body other than traditional burial and cremation.
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:25.599
And what I really wanted with that was like having a kind of casual conversation about something that you normally don't talk about, you know, and a lot of people don't talk about with their parents, and yet they're the ones that are making the decision for their parents.
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:37.840
But there are different unique ways to have your body, you know, memorialized or live on through becoming, you know, composted, or you know, just where you get scattered.
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:47.039
So, you know, my goal with this is just to, you know, inspire thought and more curiosity or more, you know, oh, I didn't even know I could do that.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.599
So there's always the the more natural beneficiaries.
00:34:51.840 --> 00:35:07.280
I have these kids, or I have this spouse, or I have this best friend, or you know, but so kind of speak to that, but speak to also like charity, you know, like I wanna leave.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:15.440
Yes, I'm gonna take care of my family, I'm gonna give people like, you know, enough, let's say like a hundred thousand dollars.
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:24.000
Okay, I want to give half of it to my family, and I want to get give half of it to a legacy, like to a charitable contribution.
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:25.039
How does that work?
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:25.840
Yeah.
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:37.760
Well there's a lot of ways that uh charitable intent or philanthropic intent can be included in estate planning all across the board.
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:51.039
I have done charitable planning as simple as a woman I worked with has a$50 gift to the Animal Humane Society, first and foremost, before the rest of her estate gets split.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.360
Um she had very simple, modest estate, and we did a$50 gift.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.960
Amazing, um, great gift, you know.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:08.079
And then I've had clients where they leave the first three million to their kids and the other four million to charity in a private foundation.
00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:13.840
Um, so there's those are kind of two ends of the extreme, and then there's all sorts of things in between.
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:18.800
So with estate planning, you can do like a dollar amount gift.
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:20.559
Um, you can also do a percentage.
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:36.800
So I have some clients that say, you know, I want the first five of five percent of my estate to go to these causes or to my community of faith or to these organizations that we support, and then the other 95% to these individuals.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.960
Some clients say, I want 100% of my estate to go to my children.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:45.920
If no children survive me, then in that situation I want some charities.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:49.199
Um, that's all charitable giving and charitable planning.
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:53.920
Now, I could sit here and start talking about charitable trusts and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:55.119
Donor advise funds.
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:56.239
Donor advise funds.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:58.960
I mean, it can get more complicated.
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:11.519
And so the question is I could go to your office for my first meeting of estate planning, and you could be the first person that I ask about how can I give I don't need to know it before I talk to you.
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:12.079
Correct.
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:23.199
And and what's most helpful from an attorney's perspective is when a client comes in and tells me what they want to do and why, and then I help them identify how.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:26.000
So, interesting case I recently worked on.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:35.039
A woman came into my office and uh she she and her spouse wanted, they came in and they said, here's what we are going to do.
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:43.920
We are going to leave this money to our children, and we are going to leave the rest of it to a private foundation that we want to establish in our name.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:58.480
And then she said, By the way, we want all of this to be very, very simple, not legally complex, low in cost, and we don't want it to take a bunch of our time or our kids' times.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:04.000
Well, a private foundation is there's some parameters around that.
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:04.480
Uh-huh.
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:04.719
Yeah.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:10.719
And there's legal costs and there's legal process and there's a board and you have to give a certain amount every year.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.840
And it's a good thing.
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:13.679
And so I started kind of cute.
00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:15.840
And so I kind of checkbook for good.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.159
I gently was like, I want to talk about like, are you sure you want a private foundation?
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:20.960
Yes, we're sure.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.320
And I said, Okay, um, let's step back a minute.
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:25.199
Talk to me.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:26.079
Like, what's going on?
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.039
What are your goal bubble?
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:32.000
And so we got all of that, and I said, I want to write, I'm gonna I'm gonna offer you an advice letter.
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:35.920
We didn't have time to talk about it, but I said, I'm gonna put this together and I want you to read through it.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.360
I just want to lay out some options.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:44.159
And to make a long story longer, uh, they ended up doing a donor-advised fund, not a private foundation.
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:51.519
And I found a um, they did not end up naming their children as uh, you know, managing this donor advised fund or anything.
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:57.440
They found a foundation that aligned with their values and their goals.
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:08.800
And so sometimes when people come in from an attorney's point of view, if they come in and they say, This is what I want and this is what I need, it can kind of actually throw us off a bit.
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:16.079
Um, and I've had clients that have done that and we get partway into the work, and then I'm going, wait, why are we doing this?
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:18.480
And then I go, but pause, pause, pause.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:23.679
You you came in, you said you wanted this document, but now it seems like you want this, this, and this.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.599
Well, yeah, those are the things I want.
00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:29.599
And I'm like, uh, well, we're on the wrong trail doing this document.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.880
So thinking of what you want and why.
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:39.119
Um you know, when we were on the break, you had kind of mentioned like, can people donate their house places?
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:50.400
Uh I had a woman I worked with once and she came in and she said, uh I want to do a transfer on death deed to leave my house to this organization that I donate money to.
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:55.199
Well, the first thing we always do is we check with the organization.
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.920
Um, hi, organization, do you accept gifts of real estate?
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.599
And if so, do you accept it directly?
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:08.719
Because if someone does a transfer on death deed on their house to an organization, guess what?
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:09.920
The organization owns the house.
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.159
They have to sell it, they have to, they assume liability.
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.280
Um, it can actually become a burden and an expense.
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:18.159
Totally.
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:24.480
Uh the organization that she wanted to leave it to uh said, Well, uh, we've never really had that before.
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:25.119
What's this about?
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:25.679
Blah, blah, blah.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.960
And so I went back to the client and I said, Do you want to leave this house to this organization?
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:30.239
Uh, what's your goal with that?
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:40.880
And she said, Well, the specific organization um helped children who had been estranged or frankly disowned because they came out as gay to their parents.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:45.119
And she said, I want there to be a house where these children can land safely and live.
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.159
Well, this organization didn't provide housing, but guess what?
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:49.039
Now they can.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:49.519
No.
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:50.159
No, they don't.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.519
No, they're not in the business of it.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:51.840
Okay.
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.719
But we were able to find another organization that did.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:55.280
Okay.
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:17.199
And so that started as, you know, like, and that and that's part of the legal process, and this is what attorneys should be doing, is when, you know, a client tells you, I want to leave a house for this purpose to this charity, the next step is we reach out to the charity and we're like, what's the best way to effectuate this goal?
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:21.119
And by the way, is this something the organization can do?
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:29.039
And so that client ended up leaving her house to this other organization that is in the business of taking that house and setting up housing.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:36.400
And I think she did um, I think she named the other organization as part of a beneficiary on like an IRA or something.
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:40.400
Um But there's different ways to, you know, figure that out.
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:56.320
And and I know, I know in your work, I imagine that, you know, if you're working with someone who's downsizing after a death, you know, if they have six bikes in the garage, maybe those are going to an organization that uses those bikes for veterans.
00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:07.760
Like being able, that's another example of how charity and philanthropy and more of that giving back can happen on the front end or or the back end.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:08.559
Right.
00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:28.159
And and ideally, you know, and I'm encouraging people to do it for themselves so that you know it's like I say leave a legacy not a burden all the time, but it's like if you think it's a lot to figure out where these bikes should go that'll make you feel good, so do your kids, probably.
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:31.920
You know, like that's putting it on them, you know.
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:32.880
I've yeah.
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:44.960
What's interesting, I notice when when I bring something up to you, I feel like my natural kind of more controlling my brain, you know, like, oh, I can get this cued up for her.
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:51.440
Oh, I can, I would go and should we bring it, you know, practically drafted so that it's just easier.
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:59.519
And a lot of the times that I suggest how I would show up, you very politely let me know that that makes your job harder.
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:14.480
And and I think that's good to know, and I'm glad to be the person that says it to you so that people listening can be like, oh, oh, don't do what Colleen suggested and and let Rachel do her job.
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:20.159
Because that's also like when I'm in people's houses, and sometimes they want to be really part of the process.
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:28.159
And I'm like, so respectfully, you didn't get this organized in like five years, you were telling me, and I'm I'm gonna do it in a day.
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:32.880
Um, but I it's not actually gonna help me if you're here helping, like helping in quotes.
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:40.000
You know, it's like yes, yes, you're an extra set of hands, but you're also gonna talk and bring up the guilt that you feel, and like you let me just do this.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:41.679
Yeah, this is what I do.
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.800
Like, yep, like you are in good hands.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:59.679
I'm very good at making sense of stuff, of creating calm from chaos, of seeing this massive mess and turning it into something that has a lot of order, and you telling me where you think things should.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:08.239
Go and how that like I'll listen, you know, I I want to know your main goal and I want to know your pressure points and I want to know what I can fix.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:18.719
And and when I come to your house, please don't clean it up so that I can see it as is as it is and bring my problem-solving brain, you know, that's what I'm here to do.
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:19.039
Yeah.
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:23.039
I'm not gonna make a meal at the end of the day, but I need to know what meals you're making.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:38.800
It feels like a lot of what comes up is like have the ideas, have the questions, but then don't try to solve them all before you get to you, because that might just go to the lawyer and say, How do I do that?
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:46.880
Well, then it comes from a place of trying to be helpful because I do the same thing constantly with other with professionals, you know.
00:44:47.119 --> 00:45:04.400
And I've had to teach myself, yes, one, to let people do their jobs, but two, to remind myself that I'm allowed to accept help and I'm allowed to not do everything.
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:09.679
And it comes from this place of like, well, I need to be, I I'm gonna be helpful and I'm gonna make their job easier.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.440
And it's like, no, I'm I'm making my life harder and their life harder.
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:19.199
And I and I have a hard time receiving support and letting people come in and just do what they do.
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:30.079
I I made a referral to you uh last week, I think, and I actually just the um client that I referred to, you know, she just experienced a stroke.
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:31.840
She's widowed.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:51.519
Um she's going through a very hard time, and her house, when she returns home, and and you know about this, but I'll, you know, for the listeners, when she returns home, in order for her to come home and have the equipment she needs and be able to navigate the house safely, uh, organizing and restructuring of the home needs to happen.
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:57.840
And I got an email from a family member who's helping her with all of this that said she won't be home for three to four weeks.
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:02.639
Should we wait to get things started until she's back so she can oversee it?
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.880
And I was like, Oh dear God.
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:08.880
And I guarantee you they're like, she should really be there.
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:11.440
This is not fair to the person we're hiring.
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:16.639
And this particular client probably feels this sense of responsibility because it's her house.
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:23.519
And I immediately responded and I said, One, I think it is ideal that this gets done before she comes back.
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.840
And also, like she's returning home from having a stroke and now she's having to oversee.
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.599
No, give her the gift of not having to deal with it.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:39.119
I I will just say though, like I am very big not throwing people's stuff away without their permission.
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:39.760
Totally.
00:46:40.000 --> 00:47:01.840
So I will say, um, you know, to to kind of say, oh, well, in my point of expertise, like if there's any thought that there will be anxiety that comes from coming back home and your stuff is not there, um, not to, you know, like call me first so that I can have that conversation with people.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:02.800
Well, and that's right.
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.599
You know, it's like and the bottom line is when I'm sure when you get hired, you're setting those parameters and learning that.
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.000
And like learning, I shared with this client.
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:18.239
Professionals know what should be thrown away and what shouldn't, and professionals know how to organize things to be gone through later.
00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:24.719
So on that note, uh, we are two very trusted, amazing professionals here in the Twin Cities area.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:30.480
Um, call Rachel Schrowman for uh any of your estate planning needs.
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:36.639
Call Colleen Waterston, 612-747-1331.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:48.800
Call Colleen for stuff for the organizing of all of your things, and call Rachel for the organizing of your estate documents.
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:54.400
And listen to us as much as you'd like on AM950, the Progressive Voice of Minnesota.
