Something Shiny: ADHD!
Summer Stole Your Structure. Here's What to Do About It.
Drop Date: Wednesday, July, 1, 2026
*this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors
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ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm Isabelle, she, her, hers.
DAVID KESSLER: And I'm David, he, him, his.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And we're two therapists with ADHD who sit down to have some chats about ADHD. We can't promise we'll stay on topic. Or be professional. Or even remotely mature. But we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is Something Shiny.
DAVID KESSLER: I love it. Can this just be the intro of you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So without further ado, welcome to Something Shiny.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We're heading into the nice stretch of routine change and- Oh, get it ... weather change that is the summer.
DAVID KESSLER: You, you know-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: Wait, can I just say this? I never, like, I have to honor how dialectical summers are. Mm. Like, you grow up and [00:01:00] it's like you can't wait for the summer, and the summer's, like, the break, and it's, like, super great.
DAVID KESSLER: And then all of a sudden you have children, and you have summer- ... and, like, you lose all structure, and now you have to, like, account for, like, being a teacher and a parent and a friend, and, like- Mm-hmm ... who has camp. And then if you're, like, friends with somebody who used to be available because they're a parent and you're not a parent, then no one's available all of a sudden, and everyone's super busy.
DAVID KESSLER: So it's like the summer is chaos incarnate, and I think it's all about just- Ah ... getting what you can.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That is... Oh, David, you just, yes. Oh, s- talk about feeling seen. Yes, like, in both areas, right? Because it's also like, yeah, it's, like, not just maybe those of us with kids. Also those of us without kids. Like, there is a fundamental nostalgia and I, you know, like, a sense of, like, free, unstructured time that, you know...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I, you know, to be fair, everyone's circumstance are different. Not everyone's summers were, like, s- you know, sunshine and rainbows, right? Ha ha. But there is this sense of, oh, t- demand [00:02:00] load on me is down. And I get to just whatevs, you know, to some degree. Even if it's I'm now go- shuffling off to camp, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I remember summers as a time, 'cause I was really struggled socially, not a shocker, but I remember summers as a, like, a grand adventure in, like, being able to be around new kids who I had a chance to, like, reset my social s- like, social capacities with. And, like, I remember loving certain summer camps because I felt like I fit in differently.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I just remember summers being this cool, like, out of d- everyday time kind of window where I could, like, reinvent and rediscover and, like ... But also was able to break through the, like, molds of the year. And you are not wrong in that even, even f- trying to facilitate that for your kids if they need it- Oh, man
ISABELLE RICHARDS: is, like, impossible. It's [00:03:00] exhausting.
DAVID KESSLER: It, it's, it's like watching people try to coordinate, like, y- I, I don't know if you've been ... I've been watching, like, Wheel of Fortune lately, and, like, it's, like, three people sitting at the wheel trying to spin and all get it to land on the same number at the same time.
DAVID KESSLER: It, like, doesn't happen, but everyone's trying and getting mad that it's not working. It's like this is the, the hardest- Like, what is this, Wheel of Summer? It's, it's not fair. And- It's not ... and, and it's, like, also this time- Mm-hmm ... where, like, we're trained to try to get breaks. Like, like- Mm-hmm ... uh, you know, we've been trained since we were kids to get breaks.
DAVID KESSLER: Now, I'll, I'll admit that, like, my favorite part of summer when I was a kid was that I didn't have school.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm.
DAVID KESSLER: Um, but I didn't always like the fact that I wasn't allowed to be unsupervised with my friends. Like, looking back on it- Yeah ... like, don't leave the eight-year-old alone. Like, so yeah, so my parents did the right thing by sending me to camp, but all I wanted to do was, like, ride bikes and, like, you know, be out with my friends.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And, and now, now, like, as an adult, it's like how do we, how do we as adults, like, change to facilitate, like, summer scheduling now? Like, what does that even look like, you [00:04:00] know? Like, as an adult, like, parent or not parent with, like, like, n- being neurospicy or not neurospicy, like, how do you manage a summer transition?
DAVID KESSLER: Like, it's not just like regular work days, right? No. It's different, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, no. Well, 'cause think of it this way, and I imagine this is true for folks in no matter what their profession, but even just speaking, like, professionally, right, like as a therapist, because it's people facing and you're sort of scheduling with people based on their availability, there's, like, this wave of availability change that is a ripple effect across all dimensions, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So, like, you're right, like, even if it's, like, not you directly, my guess is, like, people are gonna be away on vacation more, meetings get pushed, uh, projects sometimes get delayed, right? Like, like, similarly to, like, sometimes, like, holiday seasons, right, where it's like ... It's almost like there's this atmosphere of, like, let's lower the stakes because- You know, a lot of important stakeholders are out or, you know, [00:05:00] like there's, it's just like in the air.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So even if you're not taking a break or doing anything that feels relaxing or just for you, I feel like I am left... Put it this way, I am somewhat, uh, the way I think about it, one, is I brace myself. Like, I know, and it h- it sucks just as hard, but I know that the first, like I almost take like the first week as a wash, no matter what, no matter what the plans are.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I used to schedule like a trip for the end of the summer- Ooh ... and instead I just go, "No," or the end of the year or the end of the school year, you know, like almost like, "First week of summer, let's ma- " Like, I think I used to g- have a ton of expectations of like, "Let's make this transition the best and start off with a bang," and instead I'm like, "No, we are starting with a whimper."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Why? Mm-hmm. Because I do think it's like honestly stress levels and immune system magic that, like one of us is always sick, so something always goes wrong. And I think listening to that [00:06:00] like actually I think we need less on our plates for a minute. I think it is, I, one thing I try to do is this idea of like low demand parenting, which again, eh, take it with a grain of salt.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But I do think about how because the demands of changing where we're driving, who goes where, what needs to be packed, you know, curve ball, this week is this, this week is that, has gone way up. I have to cut myself and my kids and my partner Bobby, I think way more slack. Like almost like, hey, I can't have it both ways.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I can't have all this change and all this routine disruption 'cause my brain is literally zapped, and simultaneously be like, "No screen time ever," and everyone's out, you know? Like, I can't like, I can't do, I, I hate saying this 'cause you know it goes against my core personality, but I can't do it [00:07:00] all and I kinda hate it, so I have to tolerate it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I tolerate it. I tolerate just like being chiller about it even though actually inside I'm not. Does that make any sense?
DAVID KESSLER: It, uh, totally makes sense. Ugh. I think what you're, like what you're saying is like- When structure used to evaporate- Mm-hmm ... I used to try to make the most of it as freedom and the expression of this, like, branded experience.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, get every ounce of the summer that I could.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, we have to unlock core memories now. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Now, like immediately, and like, this will be great. Doesn't matter what I actually experience. Just push myself through this, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Correct.
DAVID KESSLER: And then like- Yes. Mm-hmm ... a- and, and now what you're saying is, like, there's a part of you that's like, "Oh, I'm gonna slow down and not expect too much out of myself for the summer, and take it easier on myself."
DAVID KESSLER: And, like, that totally makes sense. I think for me, the evaporation of structure is a real dilemma. Mm. And, and like, we get a lot of training in the year for, like, what we do in the absence of structure. Like right [00:08:00] now, you know, uh, you listening to this or, or watching us, I'd say, like, when you get home from your work or school or you're, you know, hanging out with your friends, and you have, like, 30 minutes before dinner or a couple hours before bed, like, you have practice structure that you engage in, right?
DAVID KESSLER: Whether that's, like, getting on your phone or getting on the computer or going for a walk or reading a book or calling your, you know, your friends. It's like that's your habit and ritual. And so all of a sudden, when the summer hits and then you're used to... If you're, you know, going to school and you're used to school, all of a sudden your whole day is free, and so now you can easily just kick into the previous structure, which is, like, calling your friends or getting on your phone.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm. But the problem is, like, that now can't last for eight or nine hours. That was, like, really good for like two hours but, like, starts getting stale after six. So, like, how do we create structure when it just disappears like that? Is, like, what I start thinking about for the summer. Mm. And I start, like, thinking about, like, summer goals.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh. [00:09:00] And it's almost like New Year's resolutions, but they're, like, much more obtainable and more experience-based than, like, restrictive, right? You know, like, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yeah, yeah ... s-
DAVID KESSLER: so like a summer goal, uh, might be to, like, go to the park twice a week, right? Or a summer goal might be to learn how to, like, make some barbecue chicken.
DAVID KESSLER: Or a summer goal might be to... Like, things that, like, I can just try to do so that when I have spare time now, I can, like, start leaning into my summer goals and nailing them. Ah. It's, like, something I didn't do when I was younger.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I get what you're saying. Okay, so maybe instead of, and this is like leaning a little bit into like, I know we've sat with this tension before, but there is such a, I have a part of me that is such a loud perfectionist and is like, "I will maximize every possible minute," and, you know, "We need to be on or near a beach, and we need to have j- laughter and joy and also Jell-O all the time, and no wait, I have to make homemade key lime pie now."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You know, like I, like the levels to [00:10:00] which sometimes those goals turn into, like, a sense of that, that's gonna be the thing that unlocks a good summer, right? The difference in what I'm hearing you say that is slowly dawning on me, I'm not gonna lie, my brain is fighting it, so you have to like bear with me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But I almost hear you saying that, oh, it's like It's l- it's less a... Maybe it's the word goals that's getting to me. Maybe it's like, it's less a goal. It's like, it's like when you've said before, like, pick your distraction. Like, I know my brain is gonna wander, and so I'm going to, before I, like, I don't know, because I'm c- like, I need to do this so hard when I'm cooking, by the way, 'cause I'm not- Mm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm gonna confess to everyone, I don't like cooking. I don't. I don't. I love eating. I love eating. I, I really dislike pretty much every moment of cooking. However, if I put on a really awful reality show or something [00:11:00] that, like, keeps me in a kitchen space, and I keep thinking about people in my life enjoying what I'm eating, whether they do or not is rarely the case.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But, right, like, if I, like, anchor it to other things, you know, like, I can keep myself in the kitchen long enough to, like, make meals, and I can tell myself, "Okay, future me will be grateful I have food-" Mm-hmm ... "ready for the week," blah. But anyway, I say all this to say, there is something about picking my distraction ahead of time, because if I don't have, like, a podcast or something I'm listening to already- Yes
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I will be derailed by any possible thing. Not just because I wanna be, but because it's like, maybe you've used this language, it's like, it's like it's a non-preferred task, and so I have to have a preferred task, right?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. So- You have to have an accommodation.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, like, I need an accommodation. So what I hear you saying is this is not, maybe it's less a goal, 'cause if I do that, I'm gonna get all blah- Mm-hmm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: in my head, but instead it's like a predetermined, um, [00:12:00] putzing- Menu ... menu. Yes, oh, there we go. Menu. Yeah. It's a menu of here's, like, the three things I want to putz with through the summer, and I don't have to unlock them fully. I don't have to s- fully finish, but I'm gonna keep a menu of three things that are not easy buttons or, like, default modes or, like- Mm-hmm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: like, 'cause when you say, like, phone, what I think about is, like, how easy it is to just do what you always do. Yeah. And so this is more like, no, you have to do it intentionally.
DAVID KESSLER: Yes, the, it's exactly that. It, it's kinda like, I think the word goal can be so terrifying for people- ... because
ISABELLE RICHARDS: it turns into, no, it really- Clearly I'm very triggered by it a word like goal.
DAVID KESSLER: No, because it's been, it's been, like, thrown about like, like a baseball bat to our heads, like, goals and performance and, like- Yeah ... uh, like, good or right decisions. And so, like, I'm trying to reclaim that, but, like, really what I'm thinking about is, like, a menu of things you can work towards in the summer.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: And so, like, for me, like, what I, one of the goals that I had for the [00:13:00] summer was I wanted to walk, uh, 50,000 steps. I don't know what that meant in, in mileage or, like, anything. My bra- I'd been walking a bunch and I'm like, "I wanna one day walk 50,000 steps." And so then at, like, you know, whenever I had spare time I'm like, "Ah, I'm gonna go for a walk," and start training up my 50,000 steps day.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, today I got to 30,000 and couldn't get close, but, like... So all of a sudden, all that walking that I would do just became structured towards a goal. Or I would think about I wanna get really good at learning how to make this chocolate-covered dessert.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm.
DAVID KESSLER: Or, or I wanna go make sure that I play these five disc golf courses.
DAVID KESSLER: I really like disc golf, so that's, like, like, my, my whole thing, right? So, like, but those goals aren't things that I have to do every day.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: They're not things that... Right? It's like, oh, this week can I get one of my goals?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I like that. Ooh, can I offer another twist on this? 'Cause you're right. Yes. I do think my issue, and I'm real- I'm trying to recognize it as it's happening in my brain, but I think that's the reason my brain was, like, bristling a [00:14:00] little, was just, yeah, my reaction to goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And you're right, that, that word has been used to... I feel like that word, I got corporated, it got corporated into my head- I love that, corporated ... back in the day when, when I was working in a more corporate setting. And oh my gosh, I realize now as I say it out loud, like, oh yeah, it's 'cause I was hi- I was so high ma- having to mask so hard that that word is now connected to me with, like- Paying a lot of close attention to both, not the thing, but also how I do the thing, explaining how I did the thing- Oh
ISABELLE RICHARDS: constantly reporting on how I'm doing the thing. Like, all the things that actually kill me inside a little bit, or like, work against my brain and nervous system perhaps, is another kinder way of saying it. But yes, okay, so reclaiming goal. Yes. Like, there's another idea I'm stealing from... There's this book that, side note, has made its rounds.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like, really po- it feels like, very popular among very, you know, awesome creative types, but it was used as, like, screenwriters were using it for years. It's called The [00:15:00] Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Very famously, I think, uh, she, you know, like, I think she was married to Martin Scorsese or something.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: There's like, some backstory. We can edit it out, but point is, is she was. Okay, she was. Point is, is- We got
DAVID KESSLER: confirmation from Bobby. That was the best, like
ISABELLE RICHARDS: s- yeah. Yeah, Poppy just gives a thumbs up.
DAVID KESSLER: Top it with a thumbs up.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Thumbs up. Yeah. Um, so point is, is Julia Cameron is, uh, there's this book called The Artist's Way, and I mean it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, you cannot throw a stick without finding this book. It was a bestseller for years, and people come back to it. Huge caveat, like, it does y- it, like, does have an edge of lean into some higher power spirituality echo in it, and w- the way I learned about it is I joined a group that, like, was a bunch of improvisers and comedians, Bobby included, and we just were going to this, like, sketch comedy place where the person was like, "Yeah, yeah, we can skip that."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:16:00] We just did all the exerci- it's like a workbook. But the idea behind this book is that we carry all these stories about what it means to be an artist, and substitute the word artist for like, I don't know, carefree, playful, uh, creative, uh, w- able to do the things that light you up. You know? Like, and each little chapter is like, an exercise in kinda going...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like literally, it's, it's all like, mostly journaling, and it's like, okay, like she does something, she does two things that I still use with clients all the time, and I honestly c- go back to all the time. And this, I'm just gonna say out loud, this has got to be one of my summer goals, actually. Maybe we talk about what our summer goals are.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Because as I'm talking about it, I'm like, "Yes, exactly," 'cause it does this for me. It reframes things for me the way you just did. One is an exercise called Morning Pages, where- It, ideally, the way she describes it is you do them in the morning, but I've never done them in the [00:17:00] morning. I'm not awake in the morning.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, but the idea is you pick a notebook or some kind of journal book of any size, and your only goal, task, is to fill three pages, and then you put it down, and you try to do this every day, and that's it. And the idea is you're not supposed to, like, hold on to what you wrote there. You can burn them. You can throw them away.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. But she does recommend handwriting, which I understand. Let's accommodate when needed, right? But the idea is just to, like, literally brain dump, you know? Like, bleh, like word vomit. Um, draw vomit. You know, like, she uses writing 'cause she's... This book was, I think, originally kind of more geared towards, she herself is a screenwriter.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, it was more, like, geared towards writers, but again, e- it could be used to any kind of expressive art. So that's one is just to do that regularly. Like, almost like- Okay ... release some of your creative blah every day, right? And the other thing is the thing you're saying that, uh, made me think of it. It's called the [00:18:00] artist date, and the idea is, a couple requirements.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: One, it has to be, I think, like, it has to be outside the house, so you cannot be in your usual environment. Two, it cannot be connected to the work you're doing, and that includes creative work. So let's say you're trying to paint or write or make music. You cannot artist date in that area. Like, it has... It's almost like acknowledging you need outside inputs.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You need something else. You need, like, a hobby, right? And ideally, it's alone-ish, as in don't go... Like, you, you wanna try to not use another person as the crutch, uh, in the way. Like, you don't wanna, like... Let's say you, you were dabbling in a pottery class, and normally you'd be too scared to go alone.
DAVID KESSLER: Right.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And the idea is, like, well, you're trying to connect to yourself. So, like, if you go with someone else, great, but it's not the same idea as the artist date. The artist date is just to put yourself into new environments. You don't have to spend any money, and you, you are required to get out of the house [00:19:00] at least for an hour a week solo.
DAVID KESSLER: So, s- Yes. So these are goals, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. Yeah. But the way, but the way that they're framed is, the piece that I vibe with that I love about your disc golf is that you said something like, "I don't have to do it every day."
DAVID KESSLER: No.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It just lives in the background as, like, almost like a steady little bit of structure that, like, when in doubt, I, you know, like, oh, I find myself with an hour with nothing to do, Bobby and I still do this.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We'll say, like, "I'm going on our artist date." The cool thing is because we've done it across the years, it also conditions you to give yourself permission to be like, "I just wanna go see a movie right now," you know? Or like- Yeah ... "I feel like going," yeah, "to the new forest preserve or whatever," or... But I just I think the piece I like about it is it's maybe not just one goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like a state of m- it's like the structure [00:20:00] creates the room for me to pick and choose week to week what it would be, in a way that, like, disc golf or something very consistent might be helpful for some people, but for me, I get a little too, like- Right ... rigid and obsessive with it maybe.
DAVID KESSLER: It, it makes so much sense.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, you're just talking about, like, how a practice feels better with, like, um, framework and not rigidity.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. Like, the, the, like, I, I could see both. I could see how some brains and some seasons I need what you're saying, which is, like, one, a menu of three things that I'm- Mm-hmm ... picking from, but a range of those three things, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And other seasons I need to practice actually letting go of having a bit of a menu and just having the structure to conne- like, to do something different.
DAVID KESSLER: I, I think the big piece for me is, like, when, whenever you, whatever goal or menu item you're making, anyone, anyone's making, it's [00:21:00] so important to fight all aspects of judgment, and I mean, I mean that.
DAVID KESSLER: So, like, I had this goal of, of, of doing, like, 50,000 steps in a day.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I mean, side note, David, isn't that, like, a marathon length? Like, that's a long distance.
DAVID KESSLER: It's- Right? Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it's, like, 20-plus miles. Like, it's a, it's a lot. I didn't know how many miles when I started because I was just focused on steps, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: But I was talking to a friend of mine, and they're like, "Oh, you should look at this trail. It goes all through the county, and it's in this, like, it's in this, like, wooded preserve, and it, like, it, it goes by these streams, and you could drive up there and let, have someone else pick you up down here, and, like, you could do the whole thing in one day."
DAVID KESSLER: And I was like, "Whoa, okay."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Whoa.
DAVID KESSLER: And then, like, another person told me, like, "Oh, you could walk from this town to this town and, like, do all these..." And all these people had these ideas of, like, the, the, like, the romantic way that this, like, 50,000-step day, like, would, would be. Now, can I, can I spoil this for a second?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Nailed this, like, last week. Like- Ah ... nailed it. [00:22:00] Yeah, got it. Yes. So got it. Love it. Love it. 55,000 steps. It was awesome. It was an amazing day. Oh
ISABELLE RICHARDS: my gosh, David.
DAVID KESSLER: But here's the thing. Everyone has, now everyone has a fantasy of, like, me, like, trudging with, like, a water bottle and, like, you know, I'm sure a workout and a headband, and I'm, like, m- motoring down the highway.
DAVID KESSLER: Not happening. Didn't happen once, right? So, so that day started with me playing two rounds of disc golf. Mm-hmm. Then I went home, and then I went for a long walk to get some ice cream And it was great. And then I walked home, and it was kinda hot, and I thought, "Oh, I just had ice cream, but I did so much today, I bet I could go get another treat.
DAVID KESSLER: I wanna go get some Italian ice." And so then I left to go get some Italian ice.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Correct.
DAVID KESSLER: And
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I walked to this place- Sorry, that's always the right choice. It's always right, yeah, to go get
DAVID KESSLER: it. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. So I walk to this place that's like, you know, a little farther. I haven't been there before, but it was, like, you know, two miles away.
DAVID KESSLER: And you know what? The line was, like, around the block, and it was hot, and I'm like, "Forget this." So then I, like, started walking and, and I pass this weird pizza place. I'm like, "I'm hungry," arbitrarily. Like, I... Looking back, I'd just done all that walking. Like, of course I was hungry. [00:23:00] So I go in to get a piece of pizza- Yeah
DAVID KESSLER: and, uh, and they have Italian ice. It was like, oh my God, Italian ice. And I'm a sucker for lemon Italian ice, but they had my, like, my, like, new sneaking, uh, callback fla- like, this kiwi strawberry. Get, like, mm, chef's kiss. Oh. So they had kiwi strawberry.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: I'm eating that on my way home, and I'm like, "This is amazing."
DAVID KESSLER: And then I get home, and Robin's there. I'm like, "Robin, I found a great Italian ice place. Do you, do you wanna go get Italian ice with me?" And she's like, "Okay." So then Robin walked into the Italian ice place with me. Yeah. And then I got back, and then all, all of a sudden I had, like, just I needed a little couple walks, like, later that night.
DAVID KESSLER: I'd already done it. And I, and I'd never, like... I stopped and I thought about I had ice cream and pizza and Italian ice and disc golf. I had breaks in between. Oh my gosh. I did it with my partner. It didn't have to look like all those romantic, really hard things that would've taken me out of what I've been practicing, out of my comfort zone.
DAVID KESSLER: It doesn't have to look or be grandiose. It doesn't have to have any of the bells and whistles. I think a goal is [00:24:00] separated by, like, what I consider the task and emotionality. And, like, the task is the steps. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you eat ice cream or tamales or tacos. And, and b- what I also realized is if you ever decide to do this, by the way, you're gonna burn, like, 5,000 calories in the day.
DAVID KESSLER: You're gonna be like- Whatever you wanna do is fine. Like- Yeah ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: do, do it. Exactly. Like, actually, you probably need carbs right now to fuel your bod- yeah, your
DAVID KESSLER: brain. Yeah, yeah. Like, I wasn't even, I wasn't thinking about the calories. I wasn't thinking about do- I just wanted to get the step goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And if I had been driving out to, like, a forest preserve to get my steps in to slowly train to do this thing, I would've quit.
DAVID KESSLER: I would've... The hurdles of, like, every, every one of those walks without a water bottle. I just have nice shoes. I'm just going out.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Less transitions, less stakes, no build-up, no- No ... s- f- f- stress about how.
DAVID KESSLER: No.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's just like, oh, clocking. Like, I... Question, are you logging steps using an external monitor of some ki- Yes.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. So you have, like, a Garmin. So I just
DAVID KESSLER: held up one of those- Okay ... like f- [00:25:00] like fancy watches that, like, tracks your steps. Yeah. I was using my phone.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: I ended up using the little, the little watch. Um, but yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Was there... Can I, can I ask an odd question? Like- Yeah ... did you... So you didn't set out that day specifically to hit the 50,000 goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It was more you were having a very, you were having a day. Was there a moment, like, you saw how close you were, and you were like, "Oh, I could do that part. Like, I can do the last 10 steps," or whatever? S-
DAVID KESSLER: so I'd been walking a whole lot, and this day in particular, I was, like, at 35,000 steps. And, uh, my sister-in-law was like, "Hey, are you gonna go for 50?"
DAVID KESSLER: I'm like, "No, I don't have enough time. It's only, like, 1:00 in the afternoon."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: And then I was like, "Maybe I'm gonna get some Italian ice now." And I think, like, that was the thought where I was like, like, "Maybe," like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, "There's things I could walk to." Yeah,
DAVID KESSLER: yeah. "This might be possible." And then, and then by, like, 8:00 PM, I was at, like, 48,000 steps and I knew w- what was gonna happen.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh.
DAVID KESSLER: What, what kicks me [00:26:00] is I ended up getting to 55,000 and change steps, which ended up being 25.6 something miles, like just short of an actual marathon. And this is where... Wait. And this is
ISABELLE RICHARDS: the part where everyone's scarred. Okay. Sorry, my jaw is actually dropping. I'm so am- I'm so in awe of you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay.
DAVID KESSLER: Sorry. Continue. Someone went, someone said, "Dude, you were so close to a marathon." And I went, "Oh." 'Cause I didn't... I, again, I wasn't tracking the miles, I was tracking the steps.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And I went, "Oh." And for a second, they were like, "So close." And then my brain was like, "No, I nailed it."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You did nail it.
DAVID KESSLER: I was going for 50,000 steps.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You actually over-nailed it. I
DAVID KESSLER: over-nailed it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: 55,000. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: So I didn't let it become a loss because it wasn't somebody else's goal for me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I just got chills. Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: It didn't have to look any specific way. And I think when we're talking about these summer goals, like imagine this- Mm-hmm ... imagine that day I don't get to 50,000 steps.
DAVID KESSLER: Do you think I'm really upset that I had ice cream, Italian ice, pizza, [00:27:00] hung out with my partner, went for walks, and then played disc golf? No.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No. It's like, I mean, in a way it's, like, incidental. It's like an incidental goal.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, which side note, I think actually, if this makes any sense, the structure, if I'm hearing right, is more in the tracking of it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: The structure is the tracking and the metric and having, like, maybe a tally you're following day to day or something you're checking in with on your phone, something that you're able to, like, as the day goes on go, "Oh yeah, that's happening." Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: The, the biggest differ- And you're totally right. The biggest difference for me, being, like, very ADHD, is this is the first time I've had an exercise goal that I met without injuring myself.
DAVID KESSLER: 'Cause normally I'd be like, "I'm gonna do something like that," but I hadn't been r- I w- wouldn't be used to walking.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And I had a previous goal that was to get to 30,000 steps in a day. And so once I met that, I made this new goal and already conditi- I, I didn't... The next day I had no blisters. I wasn't sore.
DAVID KESSLER: I didn't have, like, a, like, a pulled muscle. My knees [00:28:00] weren't blown. I was fine, just tired It, it was, I had accidentally met a goal because I was just practicing, and every bit of walking was structured towards the goal that eventually I'd get someday or not. Had a great audiobook cooking. Mm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. I was g- I was gonna say, like, it feels like, I mean, the thing, the secret sauce, if we could call it that, was, like you said, it's like actually the way you did it was just as important as what it, what you did.
DAVID KESSLER: The task.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, the, the way... But the emotionality around it was one of freedom and joy and autonomy and listening to your desires and willingness to not, like, get hung up on, like, oh, I have to be super consistent or super militant or super, you know, every day it's a 10,000 step more, you know, kinda thing.
DAVID KESSLER: No, it just... And that's the thing. It's like the task is a step. What I'm walking towards, how fast I'm [00:29:00] walking, that's all emotionality.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Hold on. That is so good that I know our mics cannot drop, but they just did.
DAVID KESSLER: But
ISABELLE RICHARDS: that's the thing. Thank you.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No, wait. Yeah. Time out. Time out. Hold on. I have to, like, lean on something for a second.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I think, I mean it, David. That's actually really, really deep. The task is the step.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: How you, how fast you're walking and how, like, where you're walking to is emotionality.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. So, so, like, the task for me is walking 50,000 steps, right? Would it count if I did that in my living room?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Would it count if I did that walking to ice cream?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Would it count if I walk, if I did it on a track? Would it count if I did it- ... on a bike trail? Would it count if I did it on
ISABELLE RICHARDS: a-
DAVID KESSLER: Oh. Would it count if I was wearing gym shorts? Was it, would it count if I was wearing the right outfit? Would it count if I didn't have a water bottle? Would it count if I didn't [00:30:00] stretch?
DAVID KESSLER: Yes. Does one block count?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. I, I don't think this is just... I, I don't wanna ascribe this to just maybe the AuDHD le- life in my head, like the autism leaning a little bit in here, um, which I know many of our listeners understand as well. Oh, yeah. We know the two are very overlapping, um, very frequently friends.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, but the thing I think about is how that is a layer of unmasking-
DAVID KESSLER: Yes ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: that I think I still really struggle with. And I think a reason it could be an extra struggle for me is because some of those hows are, one, they're embedded in the context, right? So, like, I think I do have that thing where I need a lot of context and details and, like, a full lay of the land to really understand a thing, which is probably why we have conversations the way we do, honestly.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But, like, do you see what I'm saying? Like, so for me, like, to be able [00:31:00] to conceive of a goal, like 50,000 steps, my brain really wants to go, "Okay, so, like, h-" Like, all the details. Like, I do... I, like, I crave, like, here... And, and to be fair, like, can I tell you how I go for walks? Yeah. And I also go for, I, I, I go for walks where I have a little fanny pack.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm calling it that. Love it. I'm reclaiming the term. We don't need to call it a belt bag or whatever they're calling. That's a fanny pack. Which, side note, there's a really kicking Something Shiny fanny pack on our website. Oh
DAVID KESSLER: my God, it's, it's one of the coolest... Oh my
ISABELLE RICHARDS: God. It is legit one of the coolest pieces of merch I've ever seen.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm not trying to just sell people to buy it, I'm just naming for myself. It is a really- I walk
DAVID KESSLER: around with it going like, "This is so cool that it's us."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It actually is really cool. Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm very proud of that. Um, not that I created the logo, but, like, I made the design and I'm very, I really love it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Anyway, what is this? If you haven't
DAVID KESSLER: gone, check out our website-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes ... and go to our shop. SomethingShinydo- Check out our merch.
DAVID KESSLER: That fanny pack.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Buy now. That fanny pack. SomethingShinyPodcast.com.[00:32:00]
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I love how we, like I did not mean to be a commercial, but I love it. Okay, point is, is I have a fanny pack, and I'm not joking. Inside fanny pack is, I have, um, 'cause I, I... The, the, my reason for walking is a dog.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And taking care of the dog.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I w- if it's just taking care of me, may or may not go on the walk.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But if I look at my dog and I see that she needs a walk, I will go on a walk. Like, it's just that simple, right? Like, so the, the accommodation is the relationship, right? Or, like, the instinct to care for. However, the detail of, like, sensory stuff, like the attention I have. I ha- I have, like, a pair of shoes. I have a pair of inserts.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I have a fanny pack that has hand sanitizer, 'cause I gotta pick up her poop, and I- Mm-hmm ... I've learned through experience. I have a little bit of wet wipes. I have a lip balm. I have a sunscreen. I have a bug spray. I have, like, I have to h- like, when you say leaving the house without a water bottle, my whole [00:33:00] body goes cold.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I, the thought of that legit- Yeah ... puts me in a state, partly 'cause I think it's, like, a sensory management strategy. Like, to go for a walk without the equipment and the prep, w- I, like, put it this way. Like, I, on that same walk to the Italian ice, would probably spend the whole walk not enjoying myself 'cause I didn't have the water bottle, you know?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I know that sounds weird. Maybe. It's not because- In, in
DAVID KESSLER: which case you should have the water bottle, right? Like, that's-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, yes. But what I'm s- what I'm saying is can y- I guess I'm trying to say is, like, can you see how that- type of, like, extra management you have to do- Yes ... around things like a goal might result in way more f- fear or, or just dread of like, "Oh, I'm gonna forget.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I'm not gonna do it right. I'm..." And then it just compounds. Does that make sense? It's like- I
DAVID KESSLER: think of it as like, yes, I think of the difference of like conception versus perception, right? Mm-hmm. Like, what we think it will be like and what we think we might [00:34:00] need versus what we actually need when we do it.
DAVID KESSLER: Yes. And I don't think we, like, challenge those two things, and like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Correct ...
DAVID KESSLER: the way that got challenged for me was I had this little loop that I walked that was like, uh, a half a mile loop. It ended up being like a full mile when I walked it. It took me like, you know, 20 minutes to walk. Mm-hmm. Um, and one day I was listening to this audiobook.
DAVID KESSLER: By the way, any Dungeon Crawler Carl fans out there, like, I see you. Oh.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You're in my soul. Side note, I saw a whole, I saw a whole display of it at a Barnes & Noble recently, and I literally was like, the- the- the book art alone- Oh ... I'm like, that-
DAVID KESSLER: It's
ISABELLE RICHARDS: so good. Yes, correct. Yes. Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: I've been, I, I've been into this for a while and, you know, the, the new book recently came out, and so I decided to re-listen to the whole series, and- Oh, yes
DAVID KESSLER: I was in it, and all of a sudden I was, like, not paying attention to where I was walking, uh, and, you know, Princess Donut is doing awesome things, and I look up and I am probably a half a mile farther than I've ever been. And I went, "Oh my God," and I turned and walked home, and it was fine. And then all of a [00:35:00] sudden I had a new place that I could walk to.
DAVID KESSLER: And all of a sudden I wasn't worried about what would happen if I went that far. It was, it broke my conception or, like, my perception of what it would be- Ah ... because all of a sudden I did it. My, my partner was like, "I'm terrified to walk to this, to this gelato place. It's too far." And then one day we walked to it, and ever since then my partner's been like, "Everything's way more accessible than I thought."
DAVID KESSLER: Because it changes once you do it, but you don't know. Yeah. So, like, that first time, take your fanny pack. Have all your accoutrements. But, like, once you, once you've done, like, you know, your, like a three-mile walk, will you need your fanny pack for the mile walk that you're taking? And then, then I think the other thing is walking in and of, in and of itself is, like, a very luxurious thing to do.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, you have to have time to do it. And so, like, the first thing I'd say is if we were gonna reclaim walking for you and, like, just, you know, for anything, it's like maybe there are times you don't take the dog and maybe you just Google closest [00:36:00] ice cream to me- Oh ... and you check to see, and you bring your wallet, and you walk to the ice cream place knowing you can get water, a drink- Yes
DAVID KESSLER: and you can walk back with ice cream. Mm-hmm. And I don't know what it is, but oh my God, everything is w- like, if you're walking with Italian ice, milkshake, ice cream, cold thing, if you're walking- Yes ... and eating that, the best.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That, that will take care of... Okay, so this is- What a... Oh,
DAVID KESSLER: yeah ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: this is... Okay, so to be fair, I do think this is something, yes, one I do think, I mean, point, arrows pointing to, like, how having kids ha- has changed me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I do think a huge portion of all those things is having become so accustomed to bringing and schlepping a bag of s- For everyone ... for everyone. Yeah. And also anticipating all those needs all the time because then it, it is a little bit like, oh gosh, that really would've been better if we had that, you know?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, so I get into the, the habit of that. But, you know, interestingly, part of it too, and this is interesting too come to think of it, is, [00:37:00] um, I do think a piece of it is, like, and, you know, I'll talk about it in whatever detail, but I have a bunch of, like, health stuff. I have a bunch of autoimmune conditions.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like, yay, it doesn't... You know. I've dealt with it for decades, okay? But a feature of it is the more I have had to know my body and, like, pay attention to my body, the more I could see how easy it is for me to not hydrate or to not put the sunscreen on or to not go on a walk or to not, you know, do some of the things because I'm not, like, I'm not wired to just on my own...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Do you see what I'm saying?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I, I guess I'm trying to unlock, like, is it, is it also a piece of the puzzle connecting to something that you- Like, don't have to fight so hard to do, or you don't have to, like- Well- Do you know what I'm trying to get at? I feel like I'm,
DAVID KESSLER: blah. So two years ago, uh, we wouldn't talk about me walking at all.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:38:00] Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: Right? And so, like, there was this, you know, recent investigation for me where I learned if you take a walk, even around the block, after you eat, it's good for you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And if you could take a walk around the block before you eat, that's also good for you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And so then I just started taking a walk around my block.
DAVID KESSLER: That was it. Oh. A- and what was really weird is, y- you know, if you're walking, you know, before or after you eat, you know, you're walking three, four times a day, sometimes five, you know, what's happening around your block. Mm-hmm. You start feeling weird. I'll, I'll just own it. Like, I'm, like, I'm, I'm like this is the fifth time I'm walking.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, someone has to... Like, what is, what are the people thinking I'm doing? And I don't know why I started feeling so conscious. So, like- ... all of a sudden I'm like, "I'm gonna walk two blocks. Space this out a little bit." Mm-hmm. I don't know why I thought that would be better, but it was that the goal started so small I didn't have to hurt myself to do it.
DAVID KESSLER: It was very easy to negotiate whether or not I could take six minutes to walk around my block. Oh.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: And then that started eroding conception versus [00:39:00] perception. And then that's probably why I don't bring a water bottle, because the way I started this was just walking around my block. I didn't need a water bottle for that.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, yes. Okay. Yes, like the breadcrumbs- And then it was two blocks ... I see where you're getting. Yes. Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: And then it was three, and then I forgot one day and I walked too far and came home, and it was fine.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Well, and this is like, it's like the easy button too, right? 'Cause it's like the barrier to entry is, like, whatever you think it is, including my fanny pack.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You're right. I mean, I will throw in a caveat, which is I do think, and this is just something I've been thinking about since we started talking about summer, is my concepts of what summers mean also changed dramatically when we moved to a different geographic area.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, for the reason that back in Chicago area, northern climate in the United States, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: The summer was like, I mean, hot and humid and all the icky things too, but also, like, the, the reprieve from cold and gray, you know? Like, so- Mm-hmm ... the impetus to be [00:40:00] outside all the time, all day, at all- Yeah ... conditions was so high, right? So I was conditioned across my life to be like, "Yeah!" I'm not joking, and this is a comedy.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: When we moved here, we moved in August, and now we're in Nashville, which is subtropical climate, for those who don't know. Um, we're talking green all year. We're talking, yeah, we have a winter, but it's legit, like, a month. It's like a month of, like, ooh, 30 degrees. We, we will often have, like, one ice storm or, like, one snowstorm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But most of the ti- it's, there's g- literally, flowers are blooming. Spring is February, okay? So, like, the concept and construct of seasons is so different. We moved here in August, and it was also COVID, but it was very much like, "Where is everybody?" I remember we went on a walk with the kids at noon, and it was crickets.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It was empty. Our whole neighborhood, which is, like, very walkable- Mm-hmm Because it's so hot
DAVID KESSLER: Hot ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: and you suddenly, and we were clocking, oh wait, the houses are in an, oh, look at those industrial sized [00:41:00] air conditioners on everything. Oh, isn't it interesting that all the concerts and things, mostly in spring and fall, not in the...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, suddenly summer became a time when people actually like-
DAVID KESSLER: Like winter ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: winter, they go indoors, and they live in the AC 'cause it's that hot. So like, it is this like, I'm just naming out loud if this is at all helpful for someone listening. I imagine it is. There's like probably one person out there going, "Yes, I understand."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But the thing you're saying about breaking perception versus conception, it's like trusting your experience and the breadcrumb trails that gave you more data. Like, if you're listening going, "Oh, no, I've gathered data, I need a water bottle," the takeaway is, cool. There, yeah, take a water- Bring your water bottle
ISABELLE RICHARDS: like you said, like there's, take your water bottle. Yeah. But the idea is maybe stop relying so heavily on what other people tell you it should look like, what the Instagram, you know, like what the photo display of what it should look like. Yes. Like, [00:42:00] to work out I need to look cute. You know? Like, side note, that is my biggest, like, comedy of, of, like, yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I love athleisure wear, but like, do I, I'm covered in sweat. Like, I'm gonna wear my dumpy clothes, and I love my dumpy clothes. Mm-hmm. But you see what I'm saying? It's like letting go of the stuff that, like, you accidentally barnacled onto what you know to be true. Eh? Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: It's, it's ex- no, it's exactly right, and I think, like, it's, it's making it easy.
DAVID KESSLER: And, like, what you all envision- Making it easy. Like, what you all envisioned for me walking, like, 50,000 steps I'm sure wasn't s- it didn't start with, like, ice cream, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No.
DAVID KESSLER: And then, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No ...
DAVID KESSLER: y- there's even, like, this, the great acknowledgement, Isabelle, where you're like, "Hey, you know, David, I know you're a walker.
DAVID KESSLER: Are you, you know, you always walk." And then it's like, well, no. Yes,
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm so sorry.
DAVID KESSLER: No, I love it. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, because change is one of those things that once we see something changed, w- we assume it's always been that way.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: True.
DAVID KESSLER: And
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah
DAVID KESSLER: And I just [00:43:00] think that, like, uh, what- whatever we're doing this summer, whatever your goals are, like, make sure that you take time and take breaks.
DAVID KESSLER: And so this is where I'm gonna impulsively maybe say we're gonna be taking a break.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, my gosh, yes. 'Cause here's the thing, two things too about taking breaks. One is that, and I know we've talked about this before, David, but I still really struggle with stopping before I am exhausted or, like, totally spent on, about a thing.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I have internalized the idea that, like, for me to have done a good enough job is for me to go to bed, like, wrecked, you know, 'cause I did that much. Bloody stumps and, like, yeah- Exactly ... you've, you've worked it down to the bone. Like, yeah, like, I need to have the blisters, you know? And then so I think it's really important to know that, like, there's a lot of evidence in terms of say, like, the mental health side of things, let alone the physical management of our, of our beings, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: There's a lot of research that supports, like, it is really adaptive to learn to take pauses and breaks well before you think you need them.
DAVID KESSLER: Yep.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, [00:44:00] if you're quitting, you know, quitting time at work a little bit early to teach yourself to transition to s- you know, like, like, when in doubt, lower demands is not a bad idea pretty much ever.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah, lower demands, but I think the other thing is it's, like, knowing that you're, you have a break coming is really important. Uh, like, when you're, when you're feeling, like, overcooked or getting there, knowing you have a little break coming, I think, is, like, m- a massive amount of, like, uh, accommodation for me.
DAVID KESSLER: If I don't have that on the horizon, like, things get tighter. I start burning myself out, and I think this is where, like, I, I really think that self-care is practicing what you preach, and so this is where, like, this is, well, this is where you and I are gonna take a break for the summer and, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah ...
DAVID KESSLER: give all you shiny people some amazing replays for-
DAVID KESSLER: what a, what a se- you know, two months, uh, and change. Yeah. But I think this is where realistically, like, we're doing it because we wanna take care of ourselves and we wanna be here for you. We wanna play this summer [00:45:00] and have goals. Yes. And we want you to have goals and play this summer and enjoy yourselves.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, and enjoy yourselves. And get our
DAVID KESSLER: merch, you know.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yeah. We have cool merch. Wear it. And totally get the cool fanny packs and wear with pride everywhere. Um, and also, I guess, something to think about too, which is that the, the invitation to slow down, the invitation to- Mm-hmm ... make it easy, the invitation to not, um- Like to, like to, yeah, like to go back to, like, the basics of what your, you know, no leaves you feeling a good predictable state change.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You know, there's like, I think there's a lot to be said for like, I call it the plant care, you know? Like, we're just complicated houseplants. But I go back to the idea that we are, I am a complicated houseplant in that I need water, I need sunshine, I need some fertilizer, AKA just like the basic stuff, you know, that, like, when in doubt, I'm [00:46:00] just that, you know?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, when in doubt, if it's too hard to make a decision or make a goal, I am a complicated houseplant is what I hold on to.
DAVID KESSLER: It's real because I think we have, like, complicated watering instructions, and we have to figure out what they are, and we have to take care of ourselves, and I want everyone to have a great summer taking care of themselves- Yes
DAVID KESSLER: doing what they wanna do. A
ISABELLE RICHARDS: summer, a summer blossoming and blooming in whatever climate you find yourself in. Oh, yay. Yay, summer break. Yay, summer break.
DAVID KESSLER: Go summer.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Go
DAVID KESSLER: summer. And get your fanny packs.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And get your fanny packs. Yay. Thank
DAVID KESSLER: you so much for listening. If you ever have that thought where you think, "Hey, I'm nothing," stop.
DAVID KESSLER: Remember, you're something, something shiny.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right, just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review anywhere you listen to podcasts. We're on Instagram as SomethingShinyPodcast, and if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we [00:47:00] can think of and more is on our website at somethingshinypodcast.com, and it's all free.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks.
Summer Stole Your Structure. Here's What to Do About It.
Drop Date: Wednesday, July, 1, 2026
*this episode transcription was auto-generated and might contain errors
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ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm Isabelle, she, her, hers.
DAVID KESSLER: And I'm David, he, him, his.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And we're two therapists with ADHD who sit down to have some chats about ADHD. We can't promise we'll stay on topic. Or be professional. Or even remotely mature. But we can promise that you'll end up looking at you or your loved one's beautiful neurodivergent brain in a shiny new way.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: This is not a therapy session. This is Something Shiny.
DAVID KESSLER: I love it. Can this just be the intro of you saying that and me freaking out about how amazing it is?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So without further ado, welcome to Something Shiny.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We're heading into the nice stretch of routine change and- Oh, get it ... weather change that is the summer.
DAVID KESSLER: You, you know-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: Wait, can I just say this? I never, like, I have to honor how dialectical summers are. Mm. Like, you grow up and [00:01:00] it's like you can't wait for the summer, and the summer's, like, the break, and it's, like, super great.
DAVID KESSLER: And then all of a sudden you have children, and you have summer- ... and, like, you lose all structure, and now you have to, like, account for, like, being a teacher and a parent and a friend, and, like- Mm-hmm ... who has camp. And then if you're, like, friends with somebody who used to be available because they're a parent and you're not a parent, then no one's available all of a sudden, and everyone's super busy.
DAVID KESSLER: So it's like the summer is chaos incarnate, and I think it's all about just- Ah ... getting what you can.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That is... Oh, David, you just, yes. Oh, s- talk about feeling seen. Yes, like, in both areas, right? Because it's also like, yeah, it's, like, not just maybe those of us with kids. Also those of us without kids. Like, there is a fundamental nostalgia and I, you know, like, a sense of, like, free, unstructured time that, you know...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I, you know, to be fair, everyone's circumstance are different. Not everyone's summers were, like, s- you know, sunshine and rainbows, right? Ha ha. But there is this sense of, oh, t- demand [00:02:00] load on me is down. And I get to just whatevs, you know, to some degree. Even if it's I'm now go- shuffling off to camp, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I remember summers as a time, 'cause I was really struggled socially, not a shocker, but I remember summers as a, like, a grand adventure in, like, being able to be around new kids who I had a chance to, like, reset my social s- like, social capacities with. And, like, I remember loving certain summer camps because I felt like I fit in differently.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I just remember summers being this cool, like, out of d- everyday time kind of window where I could, like, reinvent and rediscover and, like ... But also was able to break through the, like, molds of the year. And you are not wrong in that even, even f- trying to facilitate that for your kids if they need it- Oh, man
ISABELLE RICHARDS: is, like, impossible. It's [00:03:00] exhausting.
DAVID KESSLER: It, it's, it's like watching people try to coordinate, like, y- I, I don't know if you've been ... I've been watching, like, Wheel of Fortune lately, and, like, it's, like, three people sitting at the wheel trying to spin and all get it to land on the same number at the same time.
DAVID KESSLER: It, like, doesn't happen, but everyone's trying and getting mad that it's not working. It's like this is the, the hardest- Like, what is this, Wheel of Summer? It's, it's not fair. And- It's not ... and, and it's, like, also this time- Mm-hmm ... where, like, we're trained to try to get breaks. Like, like- Mm-hmm ... uh, you know, we've been trained since we were kids to get breaks.
DAVID KESSLER: Now, I'll, I'll admit that, like, my favorite part of summer when I was a kid was that I didn't have school.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm.
DAVID KESSLER: Um, but I didn't always like the fact that I wasn't allowed to be unsupervised with my friends. Like, looking back on it- Yeah ... like, don't leave the eight-year-old alone. Like, so yeah, so my parents did the right thing by sending me to camp, but all I wanted to do was, like, ride bikes and, like, you know, be out with my friends.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And, and now, now, like, as an adult, it's like how do we, how do we as adults, like, change to facilitate, like, summer scheduling now? Like, what does that even look like, you [00:04:00] know? Like, as an adult, like, parent or not parent with, like, like, n- being neurospicy or not neurospicy, like, how do you manage a summer transition?
DAVID KESSLER: Like, it's not just like regular work days, right? No. It's different, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, no. Well, 'cause think of it this way, and I imagine this is true for folks in no matter what their profession, but even just speaking, like, professionally, right, like as a therapist, because it's people facing and you're sort of scheduling with people based on their availability, there's, like, this wave of availability change that is a ripple effect across all dimensions, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So, like, you're right, like, even if it's, like, not you directly, my guess is, like, people are gonna be away on vacation more, meetings get pushed, uh, projects sometimes get delayed, right? Like, like, similarly to, like, sometimes, like, holiday seasons, right, where it's like ... It's almost like there's this atmosphere of, like, let's lower the stakes because- You know, a lot of important stakeholders are out or, you know, [00:05:00] like there's, it's just like in the air.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: So even if you're not taking a break or doing anything that feels relaxing or just for you, I feel like I am left... Put it this way, I am somewhat, uh, the way I think about it, one, is I brace myself. Like, I know, and it h- it sucks just as hard, but I know that the first, like I almost take like the first week as a wash, no matter what, no matter what the plans are.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I used to schedule like a trip for the end of the summer- Ooh ... and instead I just go, "No," or the end of the year or the end of the school year, you know, like almost like, "First week of summer, let's ma- " Like, I think I used to g- have a ton of expectations of like, "Let's make this transition the best and start off with a bang," and instead I'm like, "No, we are starting with a whimper."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Why? Mm-hmm. Because I do think it's like honestly stress levels and immune system magic that, like one of us is always sick, so something always goes wrong. And I think listening to that [00:06:00] like actually I think we need less on our plates for a minute. I think it is, I, one thing I try to do is this idea of like low demand parenting, which again, eh, take it with a grain of salt.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But I do think about how because the demands of changing where we're driving, who goes where, what needs to be packed, you know, curve ball, this week is this, this week is that, has gone way up. I have to cut myself and my kids and my partner Bobby, I think way more slack. Like almost like, hey, I can't have it both ways.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I can't have all this change and all this routine disruption 'cause my brain is literally zapped, and simultaneously be like, "No screen time ever," and everyone's out, you know? Like, I can't like, I can't do, I, I hate saying this 'cause you know it goes against my core personality, but I can't do it [00:07:00] all and I kinda hate it, so I have to tolerate it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I tolerate it. I tolerate just like being chiller about it even though actually inside I'm not. Does that make any sense?
DAVID KESSLER: It, uh, totally makes sense. Ugh. I think what you're, like what you're saying is like- When structure used to evaporate- Mm-hmm ... I used to try to make the most of it as freedom and the expression of this, like, branded experience.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, get every ounce of the summer that I could.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, we have to unlock core memories now. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Now, like immediately, and like, this will be great. Doesn't matter what I actually experience. Just push myself through this, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Correct.
DAVID KESSLER: And then like- Yes. Mm-hmm ... a- and, and now what you're saying is, like, there's a part of you that's like, "Oh, I'm gonna slow down and not expect too much out of myself for the summer, and take it easier on myself."
DAVID KESSLER: And, like, that totally makes sense. I think for me, the evaporation of structure is a real dilemma. Mm. And, and like, we get a lot of training in the year for, like, what we do in the absence of structure. Like right [00:08:00] now, you know, uh, you listening to this or, or watching us, I'd say, like, when you get home from your work or school or you're, you know, hanging out with your friends, and you have, like, 30 minutes before dinner or a couple hours before bed, like, you have practice structure that you engage in, right?
DAVID KESSLER: Whether that's, like, getting on your phone or getting on the computer or going for a walk or reading a book or calling your, you know, your friends. It's like that's your habit and ritual. And so all of a sudden, when the summer hits and then you're used to... If you're, you know, going to school and you're used to school, all of a sudden your whole day is free, and so now you can easily just kick into the previous structure, which is, like, calling your friends or getting on your phone.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm. But the problem is, like, that now can't last for eight or nine hours. That was, like, really good for like two hours but, like, starts getting stale after six. So, like, how do we create structure when it just disappears like that? Is, like, what I start thinking about for the summer. Mm. And I start, like, thinking about, like, summer goals.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh. [00:09:00] And it's almost like New Year's resolutions, but they're, like, much more obtainable and more experience-based than, like, restrictive, right? You know, like, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yeah, yeah ... s-
DAVID KESSLER: so like a summer goal, uh, might be to, like, go to the park twice a week, right? Or a summer goal might be to learn how to, like, make some barbecue chicken.
DAVID KESSLER: Or a summer goal might be to... Like, things that, like, I can just try to do so that when I have spare time now, I can, like, start leaning into my summer goals and nailing them. Ah. It's, like, something I didn't do when I was younger.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I get what you're saying. Okay, so maybe instead of, and this is like leaning a little bit into like, I know we've sat with this tension before, but there is such a, I have a part of me that is such a loud perfectionist and is like, "I will maximize every possible minute," and, you know, "We need to be on or near a beach, and we need to have j- laughter and joy and also Jell-O all the time, and no wait, I have to make homemade key lime pie now."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You know, like I, like the levels to [00:10:00] which sometimes those goals turn into, like, a sense of that, that's gonna be the thing that unlocks a good summer, right? The difference in what I'm hearing you say that is slowly dawning on me, I'm not gonna lie, my brain is fighting it, so you have to like bear with me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But I almost hear you saying that, oh, it's like It's l- it's less a... Maybe it's the word goals that's getting to me. Maybe it's like, it's less a goal. It's like, it's like when you've said before, like, pick your distraction. Like, I know my brain is gonna wander, and so I'm going to, before I, like, I don't know, because I'm c- like, I need to do this so hard when I'm cooking, by the way, 'cause I'm not- Mm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm gonna confess to everyone, I don't like cooking. I don't. I don't. I love eating. I love eating. I, I really dislike pretty much every moment of cooking. However, if I put on a really awful reality show or something [00:11:00] that, like, keeps me in a kitchen space, and I keep thinking about people in my life enjoying what I'm eating, whether they do or not is rarely the case.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But, right, like, if I, like, anchor it to other things, you know, like, I can keep myself in the kitchen long enough to, like, make meals, and I can tell myself, "Okay, future me will be grateful I have food-" Mm-hmm ... "ready for the week," blah. But anyway, I say all this to say, there is something about picking my distraction ahead of time, because if I don't have, like, a podcast or something I'm listening to already- Yes
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I will be derailed by any possible thing. Not just because I wanna be, but because it's like, maybe you've used this language, it's like, it's like it's a non-preferred task, and so I have to have a preferred task, right?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. So- You have to have an accommodation.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, like, I need an accommodation. So what I hear you saying is this is not, maybe it's less a goal, 'cause if I do that, I'm gonna get all blah- Mm-hmm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: in my head, but instead it's like a predetermined, um, [00:12:00] putzing- Menu ... menu. Yes, oh, there we go. Menu. Yeah. It's a menu of here's, like, the three things I want to putz with through the summer, and I don't have to unlock them fully. I don't have to s- fully finish, but I'm gonna keep a menu of three things that are not easy buttons or, like, default modes or, like- Mm-hmm
ISABELLE RICHARDS: like, 'cause when you say, like, phone, what I think about is, like, how easy it is to just do what you always do. Yeah. And so this is more like, no, you have to do it intentionally.
DAVID KESSLER: Yes, the, it's exactly that. It, it's kinda like, I think the word goal can be so terrifying for people- ... because
ISABELLE RICHARDS: it turns into, no, it really- Clearly I'm very triggered by it a word like goal.
DAVID KESSLER: No, because it's been, it's been, like, thrown about like, like a baseball bat to our heads, like, goals and performance and, like- Yeah ... uh, like, good or right decisions. And so, like, I'm trying to reclaim that, but, like, really what I'm thinking about is, like, a menu of things you can work towards in the summer.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: And so, like, for me, like, what I, one of the goals that I had for the [00:13:00] summer was I wanted to walk, uh, 50,000 steps. I don't know what that meant in, in mileage or, like, anything. My bra- I'd been walking a bunch and I'm like, "I wanna one day walk 50,000 steps." And so then at, like, you know, whenever I had spare time I'm like, "Ah, I'm gonna go for a walk," and start training up my 50,000 steps day.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, today I got to 30,000 and couldn't get close, but, like... So all of a sudden, all that walking that I would do just became structured towards a goal. Or I would think about I wanna get really good at learning how to make this chocolate-covered dessert.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm.
DAVID KESSLER: Or, or I wanna go make sure that I play these five disc golf courses.
DAVID KESSLER: I really like disc golf, so that's, like, like, my, my whole thing, right? So, like, but those goals aren't things that I have to do every day.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: They're not things that... Right? It's like, oh, this week can I get one of my goals?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I like that. Ooh, can I offer another twist on this? 'Cause you're right. Yes. I do think my issue, and I'm real- I'm trying to recognize it as it's happening in my brain, but I think that's the reason my brain was, like, bristling a [00:14:00] little, was just, yeah, my reaction to goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And you're right, that, that word has been used to... I feel like that word, I got corporated, it got corporated into my head- I love that, corporated ... back in the day when, when I was working in a more corporate setting. And oh my gosh, I realize now as I say it out loud, like, oh yeah, it's 'cause I was hi- I was so high ma- having to mask so hard that that word is now connected to me with, like- Paying a lot of close attention to both, not the thing, but also how I do the thing, explaining how I did the thing- Oh
ISABELLE RICHARDS: constantly reporting on how I'm doing the thing. Like, all the things that actually kill me inside a little bit, or like, work against my brain and nervous system perhaps, is another kinder way of saying it. But yes, okay, so reclaiming goal. Yes. Like, there's another idea I'm stealing from... There's this book that, side note, has made its rounds.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like, really po- it feels like, very popular among very, you know, awesome creative types, but it was used as, like, screenwriters were using it for years. It's called The [00:15:00] Artist's Way by Julia Cameron. Very famously, I think, uh, she, you know, like, I think she was married to Martin Scorsese or something.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: There's like, some backstory. We can edit it out, but point is, is she was. Okay, she was. Point is, is- We got
DAVID KESSLER: confirmation from Bobby. That was the best, like
ISABELLE RICHARDS: s- yeah. Yeah, Poppy just gives a thumbs up.
DAVID KESSLER: Top it with a thumbs up.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Thumbs up. Yeah. Um, so point is, is Julia Cameron is, uh, there's this book called The Artist's Way, and I mean it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, you cannot throw a stick without finding this book. It was a bestseller for years, and people come back to it. Huge caveat, like, it does y- it, like, does have an edge of lean into some higher power spirituality echo in it, and w- the way I learned about it is I joined a group that, like, was a bunch of improvisers and comedians, Bobby included, and we just were going to this, like, sketch comedy place where the person was like, "Yeah, yeah, we can skip that."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:16:00] We just did all the exerci- it's like a workbook. But the idea behind this book is that we carry all these stories about what it means to be an artist, and substitute the word artist for like, I don't know, carefree, playful, uh, creative, uh, w- able to do the things that light you up. You know? Like, and each little chapter is like, an exercise in kinda going...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like literally, it's, it's all like, mostly journaling, and it's like, okay, like she does something, she does two things that I still use with clients all the time, and I honestly c- go back to all the time. And this, I'm just gonna say out loud, this has got to be one of my summer goals, actually. Maybe we talk about what our summer goals are.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Because as I'm talking about it, I'm like, "Yes, exactly," 'cause it does this for me. It reframes things for me the way you just did. One is an exercise called Morning Pages, where- It, ideally, the way she describes it is you do them in the morning, but I've never done them in the [00:17:00] morning. I'm not awake in the morning.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, but the idea is you pick a notebook or some kind of journal book of any size, and your only goal, task, is to fill three pages, and then you put it down, and you try to do this every day, and that's it. And the idea is you're not supposed to, like, hold on to what you wrote there. You can burn them. You can throw them away.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. But she does recommend handwriting, which I understand. Let's accommodate when needed, right? But the idea is just to, like, literally brain dump, you know? Like, bleh, like word vomit. Um, draw vomit. You know, like, she uses writing 'cause she's... This book was, I think, originally kind of more geared towards, she herself is a screenwriter.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, it was more, like, geared towards writers, but again, e- it could be used to any kind of expressive art. So that's one is just to do that regularly. Like, almost like- Okay ... release some of your creative blah every day, right? And the other thing is the thing you're saying that, uh, made me think of it. It's called the [00:18:00] artist date, and the idea is, a couple requirements.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: One, it has to be, I think, like, it has to be outside the house, so you cannot be in your usual environment. Two, it cannot be connected to the work you're doing, and that includes creative work. So let's say you're trying to paint or write or make music. You cannot artist date in that area. Like, it has... It's almost like acknowledging you need outside inputs.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You need something else. You need, like, a hobby, right? And ideally, it's alone-ish, as in don't go... Like, you, you wanna try to not use another person as the crutch, uh, in the way. Like, you don't wanna, like... Let's say you, you were dabbling in a pottery class, and normally you'd be too scared to go alone.
DAVID KESSLER: Right.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And the idea is, like, well, you're trying to connect to yourself. So, like, if you go with someone else, great, but it's not the same idea as the artist date. The artist date is just to put yourself into new environments. You don't have to spend any money, and you, you are required to get out of the house [00:19:00] at least for an hour a week solo.
DAVID KESSLER: So, s- Yes. So these are goals, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah. Yeah. But the way, but the way that they're framed is, the piece that I vibe with that I love about your disc golf is that you said something like, "I don't have to do it every day."
DAVID KESSLER: No.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It just lives in the background as, like, almost like a steady little bit of structure that, like, when in doubt, I, you know, like, oh, I find myself with an hour with nothing to do, Bobby and I still do this.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: We'll say, like, "I'm going on our artist date." The cool thing is because we've done it across the years, it also conditions you to give yourself permission to be like, "I just wanna go see a movie right now," you know? Or like- Yeah ... "I feel like going," yeah, "to the new forest preserve or whatever," or... But I just I think the piece I like about it is it's maybe not just one goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like a state of m- it's like the structure [00:20:00] creates the room for me to pick and choose week to week what it would be, in a way that, like, disc golf or something very consistent might be helpful for some people, but for me, I get a little too, like- Right ... rigid and obsessive with it maybe.
DAVID KESSLER: It, it makes so much sense.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, you're just talking about, like, how a practice feels better with, like, um, framework and not rigidity.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes. Like, the, the, like, I, I could see both. I could see how some brains and some seasons I need what you're saying, which is, like, one, a menu of three things that I'm- Mm-hmm ... picking from, but a range of those three things, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And other seasons I need to practice actually letting go of having a bit of a menu and just having the structure to conne- like, to do something different.
DAVID KESSLER: I, I think the big piece for me is, like, when, whenever you, whatever goal or menu item you're making, anyone, anyone's making, it's [00:21:00] so important to fight all aspects of judgment, and I mean, I mean that.
DAVID KESSLER: So, like, I had this goal of, of, of doing, like, 50,000 steps in a day.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I mean, side note, David, isn't that, like, a marathon length? Like, that's a long distance.
DAVID KESSLER: It's- Right? Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it's, like, 20-plus miles. Like, it's a, it's a lot. I didn't know how many miles when I started because I was just focused on steps, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: But I was talking to a friend of mine, and they're like, "Oh, you should look at this trail. It goes all through the county, and it's in this, like, it's in this, like, wooded preserve, and it, like, it, it goes by these streams, and you could drive up there and let, have someone else pick you up down here, and, like, you could do the whole thing in one day."
DAVID KESSLER: And I was like, "Whoa, okay."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Whoa.
DAVID KESSLER: And then, like, another person told me, like, "Oh, you could walk from this town to this town and, like, do all these..." And all these people had these ideas of, like, the, the, like, the romantic way that this, like, 50,000-step day, like, would, would be. Now, can I, can I spoil this for a second?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Nailed this, like, last week. Like- Ah ... nailed it. [00:22:00] Yeah, got it. Yes. So got it. Love it. Love it. 55,000 steps. It was awesome. It was an amazing day. Oh
ISABELLE RICHARDS: my gosh, David.
DAVID KESSLER: But here's the thing. Everyone has, now everyone has a fantasy of, like, me, like, trudging with, like, a water bottle and, like, you know, I'm sure a workout and a headband, and I'm, like, m- motoring down the highway.
DAVID KESSLER: Not happening. Didn't happen once, right? So, so that day started with me playing two rounds of disc golf. Mm-hmm. Then I went home, and then I went for a long walk to get some ice cream And it was great. And then I walked home, and it was kinda hot, and I thought, "Oh, I just had ice cream, but I did so much today, I bet I could go get another treat.
DAVID KESSLER: I wanna go get some Italian ice." And so then I left to go get some Italian ice.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Correct.
DAVID KESSLER: And
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I walked to this place- Sorry, that's always the right choice. It's always right, yeah, to go get
DAVID KESSLER: it. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. So I walk to this place that's like, you know, a little farther. I haven't been there before, but it was, like, you know, two miles away.
DAVID KESSLER: And you know what? The line was, like, around the block, and it was hot, and I'm like, "Forget this." So then I, like, started walking and, and I pass this weird pizza place. I'm like, "I'm hungry," arbitrarily. Like, I... Looking back, I'd just done all that walking. Like, of course I was hungry. [00:23:00] So I go in to get a piece of pizza- Yeah
DAVID KESSLER: and, uh, and they have Italian ice. It was like, oh my God, Italian ice. And I'm a sucker for lemon Italian ice, but they had my, like, my, like, new sneaking, uh, callback fla- like, this kiwi strawberry. Get, like, mm, chef's kiss. Oh. So they had kiwi strawberry.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: I'm eating that on my way home, and I'm like, "This is amazing."
DAVID KESSLER: And then I get home, and Robin's there. I'm like, "Robin, I found a great Italian ice place. Do you, do you wanna go get Italian ice with me?" And she's like, "Okay." So then Robin walked into the Italian ice place with me. Yeah. And then I got back, and then all, all of a sudden I had, like, just I needed a little couple walks, like, later that night.
DAVID KESSLER: I'd already done it. And I, and I'd never, like... I stopped and I thought about I had ice cream and pizza and Italian ice and disc golf. I had breaks in between. Oh my gosh. I did it with my partner. It didn't have to look like all those romantic, really hard things that would've taken me out of what I've been practicing, out of my comfort zone.
DAVID KESSLER: It doesn't have to look or be grandiose. It doesn't have to have any of the bells and whistles. I think a goal is [00:24:00] separated by, like, what I consider the task and emotionality. And, like, the task is the steps. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you eat ice cream or tamales or tacos. And, and b- what I also realized is if you ever decide to do this, by the way, you're gonna burn, like, 5,000 calories in the day.
DAVID KESSLER: You're gonna be like- Whatever you wanna do is fine. Like- Yeah ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: do, do it. Exactly. Like, actually, you probably need carbs right now to fuel your bod- yeah, your
DAVID KESSLER: brain. Yeah, yeah. Like, I wasn't even, I wasn't thinking about the calories. I wasn't thinking about do- I just wanted to get the step goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And if I had been driving out to, like, a forest preserve to get my steps in to slowly train to do this thing, I would've quit.
DAVID KESSLER: I would've... The hurdles of, like, every, every one of those walks without a water bottle. I just have nice shoes. I'm just going out.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Less transitions, less stakes, no build-up, no- No ... s- f- f- stress about how.
DAVID KESSLER: No.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's just like, oh, clocking. Like, I... Question, are you logging steps using an external monitor of some ki- Yes.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. So you have, like, a Garmin. So I just
DAVID KESSLER: held up one of those- Okay ... like f- [00:25:00] like fancy watches that, like, tracks your steps. Yeah. I was using my phone.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: I ended up using the little, the little watch. Um, but yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Was there... Can I, can I ask an odd question? Like- Yeah ... did you... So you didn't set out that day specifically to hit the 50,000 goal.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It was more you were having a very, you were having a day. Was there a moment, like, you saw how close you were, and you were like, "Oh, I could do that part. Like, I can do the last 10 steps," or whatever? S-
DAVID KESSLER: so I'd been walking a whole lot, and this day in particular, I was, like, at 35,000 steps. And, uh, my sister-in-law was like, "Hey, are you gonna go for 50?"
DAVID KESSLER: I'm like, "No, I don't have enough time. It's only, like, 1:00 in the afternoon."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: And then I was like, "Maybe I'm gonna get some Italian ice now." And I think, like, that was the thought where I was like, like, "Maybe," like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, "There's things I could walk to." Yeah,
DAVID KESSLER: yeah. "This might be possible." And then, and then by, like, 8:00 PM, I was at, like, 48,000 steps and I knew w- what was gonna happen.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh.
DAVID KESSLER: What, what kicks me [00:26:00] is I ended up getting to 55,000 and change steps, which ended up being 25.6 something miles, like just short of an actual marathon. And this is where... Wait. And this is
ISABELLE RICHARDS: the part where everyone's scarred. Okay. Sorry, my jaw is actually dropping. I'm so am- I'm so in awe of you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay.
DAVID KESSLER: Sorry. Continue. Someone went, someone said, "Dude, you were so close to a marathon." And I went, "Oh." 'Cause I didn't... I, again, I wasn't tracking the miles, I was tracking the steps.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And I went, "Oh." And for a second, they were like, "So close." And then my brain was like, "No, I nailed it."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You did nail it.
DAVID KESSLER: I was going for 50,000 steps.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You actually over-nailed it. I
DAVID KESSLER: over-nailed it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: 55,000. Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: So I didn't let it become a loss because it wasn't somebody else's goal for me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I just got chills. Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: It didn't have to look any specific way. And I think when we're talking about these summer goals, like imagine this- Mm-hmm ... imagine that day I don't get to 50,000 steps.
DAVID KESSLER: Do you think I'm really upset that I had ice cream, Italian ice, pizza, [00:27:00] hung out with my partner, went for walks, and then played disc golf? No.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No. It's like, I mean, in a way it's, like, incidental. It's like an incidental goal.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, which side note, I think actually, if this makes any sense, the structure, if I'm hearing right, is more in the tracking of it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: The structure is the tracking and the metric and having, like, maybe a tally you're following day to day or something you're checking in with on your phone, something that you're able to, like, as the day goes on go, "Oh yeah, that's happening." Ah.
DAVID KESSLER: The, the biggest differ- And you're totally right. The biggest difference for me, being, like, very ADHD, is this is the first time I've had an exercise goal that I met without injuring myself.
DAVID KESSLER: 'Cause normally I'd be like, "I'm gonna do something like that," but I hadn't been r- I w- wouldn't be used to walking.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: And I had a previous goal that was to get to 30,000 steps in a day. And so once I met that, I made this new goal and already conditi- I, I didn't... The next day I had no blisters. I wasn't sore.
DAVID KESSLER: I didn't have, like, a, like, a pulled muscle. My knees [00:28:00] weren't blown. I was fine, just tired It, it was, I had accidentally met a goal because I was just practicing, and every bit of walking was structured towards the goal that eventually I'd get someday or not. Had a great audiobook cooking. Mm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. I was g- I was gonna say, like, it feels like, I mean, the thing, the secret sauce, if we could call it that, was, like you said, it's like actually the way you did it was just as important as what it, what you did.
DAVID KESSLER: The task.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah, the, the way... But the emotionality around it was one of freedom and joy and autonomy and listening to your desires and willingness to not, like, get hung up on, like, oh, I have to be super consistent or super militant or super, you know, every day it's a 10,000 step more, you know, kinda thing.
DAVID KESSLER: No, it just... And that's the thing. It's like the task is a step. What I'm walking towards, how fast I'm [00:29:00] walking, that's all emotionality.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Hold on. That is so good that I know our mics cannot drop, but they just did.
DAVID KESSLER: But
ISABELLE RICHARDS: that's the thing. Thank you.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No, wait. Yeah. Time out. Time out. Hold on. I have to, like, lean on something for a second.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I think, I mean it, David. That's actually really, really deep. The task is the step.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: How you, how fast you're walking and how, like, where you're walking to is emotionality.
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah. So, so, like, the task for me is walking 50,000 steps, right? Would it count if I did that in my living room?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Would it count if I did that walking to ice cream?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: Would it count if I walk, if I did it on a track? Would it count if I did it- ... on a bike trail? Would it count if I did it on
ISABELLE RICHARDS: a-
DAVID KESSLER: Oh. Would it count if I was wearing gym shorts? Was it, would it count if I was wearing the right outfit? Would it count if I didn't have a water bottle? Would it count if I didn't [00:30:00] stretch?
DAVID KESSLER: Yes. Does one block count?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Okay. I, I don't think this is just... I, I don't wanna ascribe this to just maybe the AuDHD le- life in my head, like the autism leaning a little bit in here, um, which I know many of our listeners understand as well. Oh, yeah. We know the two are very overlapping, um, very frequently friends.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, but the thing I think about is how that is a layer of unmasking-
DAVID KESSLER: Yes ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: that I think I still really struggle with. And I think a reason it could be an extra struggle for me is because some of those hows are, one, they're embedded in the context, right? So, like, I think I do have that thing where I need a lot of context and details and, like, a full lay of the land to really understand a thing, which is probably why we have conversations the way we do, honestly.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But, like, do you see what I'm saying? Like, so for me, like, to be able [00:31:00] to conceive of a goal, like 50,000 steps, my brain really wants to go, "Okay, so, like, h-" Like, all the details. Like, I do... I, like, I crave, like, here... And, and to be fair, like, can I tell you how I go for walks? Yeah. And I also go for, I, I, I go for walks where I have a little fanny pack.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm calling it that. Love it. I'm reclaiming the term. We don't need to call it a belt bag or whatever they're calling. That's a fanny pack. Which, side note, there's a really kicking Something Shiny fanny pack on our website. Oh
DAVID KESSLER: my God, it's, it's one of the coolest... Oh my
ISABELLE RICHARDS: God. It is legit one of the coolest pieces of merch I've ever seen.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm not trying to just sell people to buy it, I'm just naming for myself. It is a really- I walk
DAVID KESSLER: around with it going like, "This is so cool that it's us."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It actually is really cool. Yeah, yeah. Um, I'm very proud of that. Um, not that I created the logo, but, like, I made the design and I'm very, I really love it.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Anyway, what is this? If you haven't
DAVID KESSLER: gone, check out our website-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes ... and go to our shop. SomethingShinydo- Check out our merch.
DAVID KESSLER: That fanny pack.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Buy now. That fanny pack. SomethingShinyPodcast.com.[00:32:00]
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I love how we, like I did not mean to be a commercial, but I love it. Okay, point is, is I have a fanny pack, and I'm not joking. Inside fanny pack is, I have, um, 'cause I, I... The, the, my reason for walking is a dog.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And taking care of the dog.
DAVID KESSLER: Mm-hmm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I w- if it's just taking care of me, may or may not go on the walk.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But if I look at my dog and I see that she needs a walk, I will go on a walk. Like, it's just that simple, right? Like, so the, the accommodation is the relationship, right? Or, like, the instinct to care for. However, the detail of, like, sensory stuff, like the attention I have. I ha- I have, like, a pair of shoes. I have a pair of inserts.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I have a fanny pack that has hand sanitizer, 'cause I gotta pick up her poop, and I- Mm-hmm ... I've learned through experience. I have a little bit of wet wipes. I have a lip balm. I have a sunscreen. I have a bug spray. I have, like, I have to h- like, when you say leaving the house without a water bottle, my whole [00:33:00] body goes cold.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I, the thought of that legit- Yeah ... puts me in a state, partly 'cause I think it's, like, a sensory management strategy. Like, to go for a walk without the equipment and the prep, w- I, like, put it this way. Like, I, on that same walk to the Italian ice, would probably spend the whole walk not enjoying myself 'cause I didn't have the water bottle, you know?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I know that sounds weird. Maybe. It's not because- In, in
DAVID KESSLER: which case you should have the water bottle, right? Like, that's-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, yes. But what I'm s- what I'm saying is can y- I guess I'm trying to say is, like, can you see how that- type of, like, extra management you have to do- Yes ... around things like a goal might result in way more f- fear or, or just dread of like, "Oh, I'm gonna forget.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, I'm not gonna do it right. I'm..." And then it just compounds. Does that make sense? It's like- I
DAVID KESSLER: think of it as like, yes, I think of the difference of like conception versus perception, right? Mm-hmm. Like, what we think it will be like and what we think we might [00:34:00] need versus what we actually need when we do it.
DAVID KESSLER: Yes. And I don't think we, like, challenge those two things, and like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Correct ...
DAVID KESSLER: the way that got challenged for me was I had this little loop that I walked that was like, uh, a half a mile loop. It ended up being like a full mile when I walked it. It took me like, you know, 20 minutes to walk. Mm-hmm. Um, and one day I was listening to this audiobook.
DAVID KESSLER: By the way, any Dungeon Crawler Carl fans out there, like, I see you. Oh.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You're in my soul. Side note, I saw a whole, I saw a whole display of it at a Barnes & Noble recently, and I literally was like, the- the- the book art alone- Oh ... I'm like, that-
DAVID KESSLER: It's
ISABELLE RICHARDS: so good. Yes, correct. Yes. Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: I've been, I, I've been into this for a while and, you know, the, the new book recently came out, and so I decided to re-listen to the whole series, and- Oh, yes
DAVID KESSLER: I was in it, and all of a sudden I was, like, not paying attention to where I was walking, uh, and, you know, Princess Donut is doing awesome things, and I look up and I am probably a half a mile farther than I've ever been. And I went, "Oh my God," and I turned and walked home, and it was fine. And then all of a [00:35:00] sudden I had a new place that I could walk to.
DAVID KESSLER: And all of a sudden I wasn't worried about what would happen if I went that far. It was, it broke my conception or, like, my perception of what it would be- Ah ... because all of a sudden I did it. My, my partner was like, "I'm terrified to walk to this, to this gelato place. It's too far." And then one day we walked to it, and ever since then my partner's been like, "Everything's way more accessible than I thought."
DAVID KESSLER: Because it changes once you do it, but you don't know. Yeah. So, like, that first time, take your fanny pack. Have all your accoutrements. But, like, once you, once you've done, like, you know, your, like a three-mile walk, will you need your fanny pack for the mile walk that you're taking? And then, then I think the other thing is walking in and of, in and of itself is, like, a very luxurious thing to do.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, you have to have time to do it. And so, like, the first thing I'd say is if we were gonna reclaim walking for you and, like, just, you know, for anything, it's like maybe there are times you don't take the dog and maybe you just Google closest [00:36:00] ice cream to me- Oh ... and you check to see, and you bring your wallet, and you walk to the ice cream place knowing you can get water, a drink- Yes
DAVID KESSLER: and you can walk back with ice cream. Mm-hmm. And I don't know what it is, but oh my God, everything is w- like, if you're walking with Italian ice, milkshake, ice cream, cold thing, if you're walking- Yes ... and eating that, the best.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That, that will take care of... Okay, so this is- What a... Oh,
DAVID KESSLER: yeah ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: this is... Okay, so to be fair, I do think this is something, yes, one I do think, I mean, point, arrows pointing to, like, how having kids ha- has changed me.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I do think a huge portion of all those things is having become so accustomed to bringing and schlepping a bag of s- For everyone ... for everyone. Yeah. And also anticipating all those needs all the time because then it, it is a little bit like, oh gosh, that really would've been better if we had that, you know?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, so I get into the, the habit of that. But, you know, interestingly, part of it too, and this is interesting too come to think of it, is, [00:37:00] um, I do think a piece of it is, like, and, you know, I'll talk about it in whatever detail, but I have a bunch of, like, health stuff. I have a bunch of autoimmune conditions.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It's like, yay, it doesn't... You know. I've dealt with it for decades, okay? But a feature of it is the more I have had to know my body and, like, pay attention to my body, the more I could see how easy it is for me to not hydrate or to not put the sunscreen on or to not go on a walk or to not, you know, do some of the things because I'm not, like, I'm not wired to just on my own...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Do you see what I'm saying?
DAVID KESSLER: Yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I, I guess I'm trying to unlock, like, is it, is it also a piece of the puzzle connecting to something that you- Like, don't have to fight so hard to do, or you don't have to, like- Well- Do you know what I'm trying to get at? I feel like I'm,
DAVID KESSLER: blah. So two years ago, uh, we wouldn't talk about me walking at all.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: [00:38:00] Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: Right? And so, like, there was this, you know, recent investigation for me where I learned if you take a walk, even around the block, after you eat, it's good for you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And if you could take a walk around the block before you eat, that's also good for you.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Mm-hmm.
DAVID KESSLER: And so then I just started taking a walk around my block.
DAVID KESSLER: That was it. Oh. A- and what was really weird is, y- you know, if you're walking, you know, before or after you eat, you know, you're walking three, four times a day, sometimes five, you know, what's happening around your block. Mm-hmm. You start feeling weird. I'll, I'll just own it. Like, I'm, like, I'm, I'm like this is the fifth time I'm walking.
DAVID KESSLER: Like, someone has to... Like, what is, what are the people thinking I'm doing? And I don't know why I started feeling so conscious. So, like- ... all of a sudden I'm like, "I'm gonna walk two blocks. Space this out a little bit." Mm-hmm. I don't know why I thought that would be better, but it was that the goal started so small I didn't have to hurt myself to do it.
DAVID KESSLER: It was very easy to negotiate whether or not I could take six minutes to walk around my block. Oh.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: And then that started eroding conception versus [00:39:00] perception. And then that's probably why I don't bring a water bottle, because the way I started this was just walking around my block. I didn't need a water bottle for that.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh my gosh, yes. Okay. Yes, like the breadcrumbs- And then it was two blocks ... I see where you're getting. Yes. Oh.
DAVID KESSLER: And then it was three, and then I forgot one day and I walked too far and came home, and it was fine.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Well, and this is like, it's like the easy button too, right? 'Cause it's like the barrier to entry is, like, whatever you think it is, including my fanny pack.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You're right. I mean, I will throw in a caveat, which is I do think, and this is just something I've been thinking about since we started talking about summer, is my concepts of what summers mean also changed dramatically when we moved to a different geographic area.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Um, for the reason that back in Chicago area, northern climate in the United States, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: The summer was like, I mean, hot and humid and all the icky things too, but also, like, the, the reprieve from cold and gray, you know? Like, so- Mm-hmm ... the impetus to be [00:40:00] outside all the time, all day, at all- Yeah ... conditions was so high, right? So I was conditioned across my life to be like, "Yeah!" I'm not joking, and this is a comedy.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: When we moved here, we moved in August, and now we're in Nashville, which is subtropical climate, for those who don't know. Um, we're talking green all year. We're talking, yeah, we have a winter, but it's legit, like, a month. It's like a month of, like, ooh, 30 degrees. We, we will often have, like, one ice storm or, like, one snowstorm.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But most of the ti- it's, there's g- literally, flowers are blooming. Spring is February, okay? So, like, the concept and construct of seasons is so different. We moved here in August, and it was also COVID, but it was very much like, "Where is everybody?" I remember we went on a walk with the kids at noon, and it was crickets.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: It was empty. Our whole neighborhood, which is, like, very walkable- Mm-hmm Because it's so hot
DAVID KESSLER: Hot ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: and you suddenly, and we were clocking, oh wait, the houses are in an, oh, look at those industrial sized [00:41:00] air conditioners on everything. Oh, isn't it interesting that all the concerts and things, mostly in spring and fall, not in the...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, suddenly summer became a time when people actually like-
DAVID KESSLER: Like winter ...
ISABELLE RICHARDS: winter, they go indoors, and they live in the AC 'cause it's that hot. So like, it is this like, I'm just naming out loud if this is at all helpful for someone listening. I imagine it is. There's like probably one person out there going, "Yes, I understand."
ISABELLE RICHARDS: But the thing you're saying about breaking perception versus conception, it's like trusting your experience and the breadcrumb trails that gave you more data. Like, if you're listening going, "Oh, no, I've gathered data, I need a water bottle," the takeaway is, cool. There, yeah, take a water- Bring your water bottle
ISABELLE RICHARDS: like you said, like there's, take your water bottle. Yeah. But the idea is maybe stop relying so heavily on what other people tell you it should look like, what the Instagram, you know, like what the photo display of what it should look like. Yes. Like, [00:42:00] to work out I need to look cute. You know? Like, side note, that is my biggest, like, comedy of, of, like, yeah.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I love athleisure wear, but like, do I, I'm covered in sweat. Like, I'm gonna wear my dumpy clothes, and I love my dumpy clothes. Mm-hmm. But you see what I'm saying? It's like letting go of the stuff that, like, you accidentally barnacled onto what you know to be true. Eh? Yeah.
DAVID KESSLER: It's, it's ex- no, it's exactly right, and I think, like, it's, it's making it easy.
DAVID KESSLER: And, like, what you all envision- Making it easy. Like, what you all envisioned for me walking, like, 50,000 steps I'm sure wasn't s- it didn't start with, like, ice cream, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No.
DAVID KESSLER: And then, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: No ...
DAVID KESSLER: y- there's even, like, this, the great acknowledgement, Isabelle, where you're like, "Hey, you know, David, I know you're a walker.
DAVID KESSLER: Are you, you know, you always walk." And then it's like, well, no. Yes,
ISABELLE RICHARDS: I'm so sorry.
DAVID KESSLER: No, I love it. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, because change is one of those things that once we see something changed, w- we assume it's always been that way.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: True.
DAVID KESSLER: And
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah
DAVID KESSLER: And I just [00:43:00] think that, like, uh, what- whatever we're doing this summer, whatever your goals are, like, make sure that you take time and take breaks.
DAVID KESSLER: And so this is where I'm gonna impulsively maybe say we're gonna be taking a break.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, my gosh, yes. 'Cause here's the thing, two things too about taking breaks. One is that, and I know we've talked about this before, David, but I still really struggle with stopping before I am exhausted or, like, totally spent on, about a thing.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, I have internalized the idea that, like, for me to have done a good enough job is for me to go to bed, like, wrecked, you know, 'cause I did that much. Bloody stumps and, like, yeah- Exactly ... you've, you've worked it down to the bone. Like, yeah, like, I need to have the blisters, you know? And then so I think it's really important to know that, like, there's a lot of evidence in terms of say, like, the mental health side of things, let alone the physical management of our, of our beings, right?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: There's a lot of research that supports, like, it is really adaptive to learn to take pauses and breaks well before you think you need them.
DAVID KESSLER: Yep.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, [00:44:00] if you're quitting, you know, quitting time at work a little bit early to teach yourself to transition to s- you know, like, like, when in doubt, lower demands is not a bad idea pretty much ever.
DAVID KESSLER: Oh, yeah, lower demands, but I think the other thing is it's, like, knowing that you're, you have a break coming is really important. Uh, like, when you're, when you're feeling, like, overcooked or getting there, knowing you have a little break coming, I think, is, like, m- a massive amount of, like, uh, accommodation for me.
DAVID KESSLER: If I don't have that on the horizon, like, things get tighter. I start burning myself out, and I think this is where, like, I, I really think that self-care is practicing what you preach, and so this is where, like, this is, well, this is where you and I are gonna take a break for the summer and, like-
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yeah ...
DAVID KESSLER: give all you shiny people some amazing replays for-
DAVID KESSLER: what a, what a se- you know, two months, uh, and change. Yeah. But I think this is where realistically, like, we're doing it because we wanna take care of ourselves and we wanna be here for you. We wanna play this summer [00:45:00] and have goals. Yes. And we want you to have goals and play this summer and enjoy yourselves.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Yes, and enjoy yourselves. And get our
DAVID KESSLER: merch, you know.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Oh, yeah. We have cool merch. Wear it. And totally get the cool fanny packs and wear with pride everywhere. Um, and also, I guess, something to think about too, which is that the, the invitation to slow down, the invitation to- Mm-hmm ... make it easy, the invitation to not, um- Like to, like to, yeah, like to go back to, like, the basics of what your, you know, no leaves you feeling a good predictable state change.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: You know, there's like, I think there's a lot to be said for like, I call it the plant care, you know? Like, we're just complicated houseplants. But I go back to the idea that we are, I am a complicated houseplant in that I need water, I need sunshine, I need some fertilizer, AKA just like the basic stuff, you know, that, like, when in doubt, I'm [00:46:00] just that, you know?
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Like, when in doubt, if it's too hard to make a decision or make a goal, I am a complicated houseplant is what I hold on to.
DAVID KESSLER: It's real because I think we have, like, complicated watering instructions, and we have to figure out what they are, and we have to take care of ourselves, and I want everyone to have a great summer taking care of themselves- Yes
DAVID KESSLER: doing what they wanna do. A
ISABELLE RICHARDS: summer, a summer blossoming and blooming in whatever climate you find yourself in. Oh, yay. Yay, summer break. Yay, summer break.
DAVID KESSLER: Go summer.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Go
DAVID KESSLER: summer. And get your fanny packs.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: And get your fanny packs. Yay. Thank
DAVID KESSLER: you so much for listening. If you ever have that thought where you think, "Hey, I'm nothing," stop.
DAVID KESSLER: Remember, you're something, something shiny.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: That's right, just as you are. If you like what you heard and you want to hear more free episodes of this podcast, please subscribe, rate, and review anywhere you listen to podcasts. We're on Instagram as SomethingShinyPodcast, and if you're looking for more information, useful links, definitions, visuals, everything we [00:47:00] can think of and more is on our website at somethingshinypodcast.com, and it's all free.
ISABELLE RICHARDS: Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks.
