The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 4 in the case of Melanie Ethier

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This is a CBC Podcast.
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The following episode contains difficult subject matter and references to
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sexual assault. So, please take care.
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I really understand what he's talking about. Like, a couple
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times he came here, Melanie, and he named another girl.
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And I'm sure he said he'll never find them.
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So now I was outside having a cigarette, and Melanie
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just had disappeared a few days ago. And I'm not
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sure if he walked up. I don't remember the truck
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or anything.
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Jocelyn Martel, telling her story for the first time, was
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sitting on her mother-in-law's porch on the morning Melanie Yethier
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went missing. She says she learned about Mel being missing
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from Dennis LeVay, who showed up at the house acting strange.
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Dennis lived only three houses down from my mother's in-laws.
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But I was sitting there, and he came, and he
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was nervous, just saying, God, say, come, we have to
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find her. She has to be somewhere. And he had
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scratches on his arm, on his left arm. And I
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asked him, how'd you get scratched? He says, well, I'm
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in the woods looking for her. He talked about going
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to get my brother's dog. My brother had a German shepherd.
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So when you asked Dennis how he got these scratches
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on his arm, what exactly did he say?
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He said it was the branches in the woods.
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Do you remember Dennis specifically saying that branches made the scratches? Yes.
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Yeah.
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Céline Ethier and Sylvie Chartrand have both told me that
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Dennis claimed that Melanie made the scratches while play fighting
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with him. Here, Dennis says they were caused by branches
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while he was looking for Melanie in the woods. To me,
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the wrestling excuse is problematic enough, but if Dennis changed
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the story, this takes it to a new level of intrigue. Okay,
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and can you describe the scratches, what they look like
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to you?
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They were almost like finger scratches. You know, like a
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part that wasn't like... There were gaps in between. And
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then he pulled down his shirt, like he had a
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long-sleeve shirt. After I mentioned that, he put down his shirt,
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because he was talking with his hand, and the shirt
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came up a bit, and he was scratched.
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Can you describe the color of the scratches?
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Yeah, it was fresh, maybe a day or two. They
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were red, but starting to scab.
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Okay. Could you describe how wide each scratch was? Like,
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were they really thick scratches, or how wide were they,
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would you say? Like in millimeters?
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More than a branch. I'd say like a nail.
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Yeah.
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The width of a nail?
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Yeah.
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And how long down the arm were they?
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Well, like I said, he put his shirt down, but
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what I could see, it would have kept on. Because
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they were too wide to stop, you.
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Know what I mean?
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Yeah, right, so you couldn't see the end of them.
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Yeah, that's right.
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Okay, and then what did he do? Once he put
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his shirt down, what happened?
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He was very nervous, then he changed subjects, like, he says,
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I'm going to go get Lionel's dog, and he left
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after that.
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Lionel Martel is Jocelyn's brother and was one of Denis
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Lavey's best friends. When he arrived, was he talking about Melanie,
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or did he only start talking about Melanie after he
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noticed the scratches?
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No, he was talking about Melanie.
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Okay.
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He was trying to help in the woods, and yeah.
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And at the time, did you just say, oh, he
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must have gotten it from branches? Did you wonder about
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it at the time?
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Yeah, I really had a bad feeling. A really bad feeling.
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Did you ever go to police with that?
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No, no.
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Okay. No, no.
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Because it was just a feeling, see?
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You didn't think it was as important as that at
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the time?
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No, I didn't. You don't think like that, eh?
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Dennis, he never really defended himself saying he never did
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it or anything like that?
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Never, never. Even, yeah, no, never. And that would have
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been the first thing he would.
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Have done, I think.
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Jocelyn leaves me with more questions. Did Dennis tell anyone
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else that his scratches came from tree branches? Why was
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he interested in Lionel's dog? And are there any other
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oddities spread across the stories he's told?
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I just had a bad feeling with the scratch.
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I'm David Ridgen, and welcome to The Next Call, Episode 4,
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In the Case of Melanie Ethier. I'm going to call
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Lionel Martel, Jocelyn's brother.
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Hello?
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Hi, is this Lionel?
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Yes, this is Lionel.
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The opportunity to talk to Jocelyn's brother Lionel comes up
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as I'm driving, so I pull off to a quiet
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location to make the call. What's your connection to Dennis LeVay?
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Dennis was my best friend. I don't know.
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I'm kind of blown away by what happened, you know?
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Because I heard of things too, and I don't know,
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it puts him right there, right? So it's kind of....
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Did Dennis ever talk to you about Melanie?
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Never. No.
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He would say her name sometimes, but he was always
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so high too, eh? Like, always stoned on perks, He
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was on crack for a while. He was on Percocets. And,
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you know, he was on heavy stuff.
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And was that back in the 90s, say 96, when
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Melanie disappeared? Was Dennis using drugs like that?
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Yes.
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Can you tell me a bit about Dennis' personality? What
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kind of person he was when you were around him?
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What made you guys best friends?
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Like, we got along good.
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And, you know, like.
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We went fishing and did all kinds of things. We
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hung around.
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I ask Lionel if he knows anything about Dennis' whereabouts
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over the weekend that Melanie disappeared. He echoes what his
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sister Jocelyn just said and makes the timing of Dennis'
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interaction with Jocelyn to be sometime during the day on
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the same Sunday that Melanie disappeared. And he continues that story.
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My sister was sitting down At her mother-in-law's, she was
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sitting outside. And it was on a Sunday morning. My
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sister says she never saw him like that. And Dennis said,
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I want to go get Lionel's dog. Because I had
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a German Shepherd to look for Melanie. So, like, you know, like, wow.
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Okay.
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And so, Lionel, did Dennis come and borrow your German Shepherd?
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He did.
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And he said the purpose for that was to go
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look for Melanie?
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He said, I'm going to go get Lionel's dog to
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look for Melanie.
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Melanie's disappearance began to spread throughout the community on Sunday
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as the search widened for her.
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Like, that same day, I know he came and got
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my dog. He says, I'm going to go out with
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the cops to look for Melanie. I says, well, take him.
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So he took him and he came back and he
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said the cops told me that he had a really
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good dog, Lionel.
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That's interesting. Police say that they are aware that Dennis
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assisted in the volunteer ground search and are aware of
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the information that he borrowed a friend's dog to assist
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him with searching at some point. And Dennis had some
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previous assault charges?
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Yeah, young girls.
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Lionel tells me a story about the daughter of one
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of his relatives.
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She was abused by him.
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She was drugged, and I never asked him, but.
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I heard about it.
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How did you find out that she had been drugged?
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Did he tell you that, or did somebody else tell
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you that?
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It would probably be somebody I know close to my family,
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maybe my sister Joss, or I can't remember.
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And Dennis served some time for some of these charges,
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did he?
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Apparently, he never told me.
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He told me that he went to his uncle's farm
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in Alberta.
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I see.
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So you thought he, I mean, he didn't tell you
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he was actually in jail.
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Yeah, he went working for my uncle.
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He needed help, so I went up there.
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And did you ever witness any behavior from Dennis with
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regards to that kind of thing?
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Yes, I did.
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I went to Toronto to pick up my brother at
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the airport, and he offered to come.
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With me.
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And we stopped on this little boutique. There was a
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young girl that was working inside of me. I was
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looking around, and Dennis went to her right away. We
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started talking, like hitting on her, I guess. And she
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buzzed the thing. There was a buzzer, because I know...
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Lady came in not too long after. And when we
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got in the truck, I told him, I said, hey,
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I said, what are you doing with this girl?
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Oh, did you see her? She was beautiful. I said, Dennis,
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she's only 15. He said, oh no, she's a lot
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older than that.
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Anyways, I just, you know.
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I asked Lionel if he remembers when the incident with
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the young girl he says Dennis drugged happened. While he's
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not clear on the date, he does remember another girl
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and another incident.
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Oh, God.
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It would have been.
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Because I heard he drugged another girl, too. And Shaq
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taking him to court. I don't know. I heard that
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he had drugged her and another girl.
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And in all your time with him and the kinds
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of things you did with him, he would never talk
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about any of this... with you've never talked about any
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of these charges other than this incident with the girl
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in the store in the boutique?
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Never.
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Never.
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The stories I've heard about Dennis LaVey and the records
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I have to date make it difficult to confirm some
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of the details Lionel's providing or even which incident this
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might be involving Dennis and young girls. I asked Lionel
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what kind of vehicle Dennis drove at the time.
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I'm sure he had a truck. A truck, eh? It
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was white. White? Yeah.
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He was really, really on heavy, heavy stuff. He was
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really messed up. The last two years, two and a
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half years before he died, I didn't even see him. Like,
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he came here the last time and I told him
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to leave because he was so messed up.
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Why did you tell him to leave? What was he doing?
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It didn't make sense. He was doing heavy drugs and me,
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I smoked marijuana. So he would come here and I'd
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smoke him up. Then he would pass out. Like, you know, really,
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really messed up. Very big man.
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Very, very strong.
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How tall was he?
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He was 5'8, 5'9. He weighed 280. He was a
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big man.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And you never heard him talking about Melanie?
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Sometimes he would when he'd be drugged up, but I
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didn't really understand what he was talking about. Like, a
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couple times he came here and Melanie, and he named
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another girl. Like, I don't, I can't remember. It was
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a really weird name. And I'm sure he said they'll
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never find them. Like, it was really strange.
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He said they'll never find them? Yeah. And he was
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just saying Melanie's name or sentences about her?
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Melanie and another girl. He said her first name or
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maybe her last name, too, because it was a really
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weird name. Like, and I'm sure he said they'll never
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find them.
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This single sentence from Lionel could be very important. Another
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girl mentioned by Dennis Lavey, along with Mel. And they'll
252
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never find them.
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Interesting.
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And you never asked about, you never sort of explored
255
00:13:50.490 --> 00:13:51.269
that a little further?
256
00:13:51.429 --> 00:13:51.610
No.
257
00:13:51.990 --> 00:13:53.509
He was so high.
258
00:13:54.509 --> 00:13:57.629
Do you think that Dennis, could you see him doing
259
00:13:57.710 --> 00:13:59.730
something to Melanie? Can you see him being involved in
260
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Melanie's disappearance?
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00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:03.750
Oh God, I hope not.
262
00:14:07.389 --> 00:14:11.350
Sylvie and now Lionel both tell stories about this other
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00:14:11.450 --> 00:14:15.429
side of Dennis. According to people I've interviewed, including Celine
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00:14:15.509 --> 00:14:19.049
and Sylvie, police did not interview Dennis before he died.
265
00:14:19.789 --> 00:14:23.700
But police say they looked into him. What else was
266
00:14:23.779 --> 00:14:25.120
hiding in plain sight?
267
00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:30.379
Hello?
268
00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:31.179
Oh, hi.
269
00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:31.600
Stephanie.
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00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:32.720
Hi.
271
00:14:33.340 --> 00:14:36.600
It's taken a while, but I've finally connected with Stephanie Chartrand.
272
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.710
She's Dennis LaVey's daughter with Sylvie. Age 31 now, Steph
273
00:14:41.830 --> 00:14:49.269
was six when Melanie disappeared. The line is intermittent and difficult,
274
00:14:49.450 --> 00:14:53.470
but the content is, I believe, potentially very important to
275
00:14:53.509 --> 00:14:57.830
the Ethier case. She's never spoken publicly before about any
276
00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:02.409
of it. So, let's just start from the beginning, I guess.
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00:15:03.470 --> 00:15:07.169
Well, I knew Melanie growing up. You know, she went
278
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missing when I was six years old, but.
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00:15:09.389 --> 00:15:11.970
She was always at my house because Lynn was best
280
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friends with my mom, my brother was best friends with Melanie.
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And I was best friends with Jesse.
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00:15:16.889 --> 00:15:18.750
So it was kind of like a generation thing.
283
00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:24.019
I have, like, fond little memories of the child with Melanie,
284
00:15:24.059 --> 00:15:27.259
and I remember how much her disappearance impacted me as
285
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:27.919
a young child.
286
00:15:29.500 --> 00:15:31.559
And do you remember the sort of period around when
287
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:32.220
she disappeared?
288
00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:36.649
Well, the only thing I remember is being, like, afraid
289
00:15:36.690 --> 00:15:40.559
all the time. And I remember... Celine being around and
290
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.200
helicopters and all that stuff. It was kind of a blur,
291
00:15:44.259 --> 00:15:45.139
but very intense.
292
00:15:45.259 --> 00:15:46.769
It's kind of hard to explain for me.
293
00:15:48.330 --> 00:15:51.649
Is there any theory or information that you've heard that
294
00:15:51.690 --> 00:15:55.070
you find more credible about what might have happened to Mel?
295
00:15:57.620 --> 00:16:00.700
I feel like the more that I've been reflecting on
296
00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:04.019
certain things and that more things have been brought to
297
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.879
my attention, I feel like it would kind of make
298
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:09.929
sense that my father would have some involvement in it.
299
00:16:16.710 --> 00:16:17.610
So tell me about that.
300
00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:22.590
I mean, it's hard for me to try to wrap
301
00:16:22.610 --> 00:16:26.049
my mind around that that could very well be the
302
00:16:26.090 --> 00:16:29.549
reality of the situation. But I knew my father as
303
00:16:29.570 --> 00:16:31.620
my dad, as a man, as a friend. And my dad,
304
00:16:31.629 --> 00:16:37.590
he had a lot of demons. And I could see
305
00:16:37.649 --> 00:16:40.860
how some of his issues and things that he's done
306
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:45.759
would point to the possibility that he very could well
307
00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.919
have done it. I don't think it's far-fetched to think
308
00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:50.399
that he could.
309
00:16:50.259 --> 00:16:50.740
Have done it.
310
00:16:54.590 --> 00:16:56.509
What are some of the things that come to mind
311
00:16:56.529 --> 00:16:57.730
when you think about your father?
312
00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:03.940
Well, I mean, my dad had issues with... He's tried to...
313
00:17:04.309 --> 00:17:07.470
have sexual encounters with quite a few of my friends
314
00:17:07.529 --> 00:17:09.950
growing up. As I was a teenager, it started when
315
00:17:09.970 --> 00:17:17.029
I was 14. My dad did have that side of
316
00:17:17.109 --> 00:17:21.519
him that was a sexual predator. I've seen it firsthand when,
317
00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:24.559
you know, I was at a party and my dad
318
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.000
was there and my friend needed a ride home. And
319
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.759
my dad looked different at that part of the evening
320
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.970
and I felt the need to watch which direction he
321
00:17:35.009 --> 00:17:37.190
went in the car with her. And when I seen
322
00:17:37.230 --> 00:17:39.789
that he turned the opposite way he was supposed to,
323
00:17:40.390 --> 00:17:42.099
I just knew it in my heart, you know, that
324
00:17:42.490 --> 00:17:46.500
something bad was happening. So I had to run to
325
00:17:46.539 --> 00:17:48.500
my friend's house to see if she had made it
326
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.539
home safely. And she hadn't. And when my dad pulled up,
327
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.460
I could tell what his intentions were. Like he had
328
00:17:54.500 --> 00:17:56.420
this side of him. You could see like a switch
329
00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:59.509
in his face when he would go to that place
330
00:17:59.809 --> 00:18:02.990
and It was very apparent that he was a sexual
331
00:18:03.029 --> 00:18:06.410
predator for underage girls. It happened at least six times
332
00:18:06.509 --> 00:18:07.190
in my knowledge.
333
00:18:08.650 --> 00:18:12.579
Six times where your friends have come forward and said,
334
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:14.279
your father assaulted me?
335
00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:17.059
Well, more or.
336
00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:20.759
Less where he would ask them to have sex with
337
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.220
him or he would ask them sexual questions that would
338
00:18:23.299 --> 00:18:27.579
lead to him eventually putting himself out there and asking
339
00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:32.809
for sexual favors or in that area. But yes, these
340
00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:36.069
girls have come forward to me. My dad was charged
341
00:18:36.210 --> 00:18:39.150
twice for trying to have sex with underage girls, which
342
00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:42.630
were my friends. And he's tried with many others that
343
00:18:42.690 --> 00:18:45.630
just didn't go forward to law enforcement.
344
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:47.640
But yeah, he did.
345
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:50.039
What were the two cases that you can remember your
346
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:51.339
father being charged for?
347
00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:57.920
My friend at the time, she was 14. He tried
348
00:18:58.009 --> 00:19:00.269
to sexually assault her in my house while me and
349
00:19:00.289 --> 00:19:04.460
my mom were sleeping. He did go to jail for that,
350
00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.119
I believe, for a little bit. But he did get
351
00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.480
acquitted of the charges because he had a very good lawyer.
352
00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:13.869
And he did a repeat offense, which I believe would
353
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:21.009
have been in 2014. And he actually pled guilty at
354
00:19:21.049 --> 00:19:22.990
that time. He was in jail for quite a few months.
355
00:19:23.670 --> 00:19:26.410
And did police ever talk to your dad in regards
356
00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:27.059
to Melanie's case?
357
00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:28.380
In regards to Melanie, no.
358
00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:28.579
No.
359
00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:32.960
Police tell me they looked at Dennis before he died,
360
00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:37.049
but won't say more. Stephanie says police only spoke to
361
00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:39.329
her for the first time the week before I did.
362
00:19:39.349 --> 00:19:42.809
I asked Stephanie to tell me about the time Celine
363
00:19:42.849 --> 00:19:45.490
went to talk to Dennis about Mel's disappearance.
364
00:19:47.930 --> 00:19:50.420
So that was just the same week of my dad's stroke.
365
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:53.440
My mom ended up telling my dad that Celine wanted
366
00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:58.349
to speak with him regarding Melanie's disappearance. And the day
367
00:19:58.410 --> 00:20:01.329
of my dad's stroke, I ended up coming to visit him.
368
00:20:01.349 --> 00:20:04.029
So I had a dentist appointment. So I came to
369
00:20:04.089 --> 00:20:06.789
town and I knocked on the door and my dad
370
00:20:06.829 --> 00:20:11.160
answered and he was Very, very antsy. And he asked
371
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:12.799
me to go on the side of the house and
372
00:20:12.819 --> 00:20:15.680
have a smoke with him in our spot. And he
373
00:20:15.700 --> 00:20:18.619
was pacing back and forth. And then he'd always sit
374
00:20:18.740 --> 00:20:21.460
and he'd run his thumb and his finger over his
375
00:20:21.529 --> 00:20:24.329
mustache up and down. And that was always when my
376
00:20:24.349 --> 00:20:26.809
dad was nervous or pensive, he would do that. So
377
00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:29.910
I was like, what's wrong, dad? And he's like, well,
378
00:20:30.369 --> 00:20:32.869
Celine wants to talk to me. I need to talk
379
00:20:32.910 --> 00:20:37.490
to the police about Melanie. So I said, okay.
380
00:20:37.509 --> 00:20:38.690
I said, that's fine.
381
00:20:39.289 --> 00:20:41.650
He's like, can you come with me? I said, yeah,
382
00:20:41.670 --> 00:20:43.630
for sure. I'll go with you. He's like, can you
383
00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:46.450
talk for me? And I was like, dad, I was sick.
384
00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:47.589
Like, they don't want to talk to me.
385
00:20:47.630 --> 00:20:51.799
They want to talk to you. And then he was like, fuck,
386
00:20:51.819 --> 00:20:53.500
you know, I got to be honest. Like, it's not
387
00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:55.799
making me feel good. And I was like, well, what
388
00:20:55.819 --> 00:20:58.480
do you have to worry about? I said, you were
389
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:01.559
with Jason, Joelle and Andre. I said, you have an alibi.
390
00:21:01.579 --> 00:21:04.750
You were gone fishing on a fishing trip. And he's like, no,
391
00:21:05.289 --> 00:21:12.140
we weren't. So I thought that was odd because my
392
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:14.059
whole life he stuck to the same story that he
393
00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:16.549
was gone on a fishing trip. And he's like, but
394
00:21:16.589 --> 00:21:19.569
we weren't. And I said, well, what do you mean? Like,
395
00:21:20.230 --> 00:21:22.630
it took him a bit to answer. I remember, like,
396
00:21:22.690 --> 00:21:24.549
it's so vivid in my mind because it's the last
397
00:21:24.589 --> 00:21:26.509
conversation I had with my dad, so it's not hard
398
00:21:26.529 --> 00:21:29.549
for me to remember. He was just looking down at
399
00:21:29.589 --> 00:21:32.690
his feet and it took maybe like a minute to answer.
400
00:21:32.710 --> 00:21:34.849
And then he looked up at me and he's like, no,
401
00:21:34.930 --> 00:21:36.430
we were in North Bay.
402
00:21:38.829 --> 00:21:41.789
Steph says Dennis tells her that instead of a fishing trip,
403
00:21:42.109 --> 00:21:46.150
he was at a motocross competition. Motocross being dirt bikes
404
00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:50.069
on a hilly, circuitous dirt track, and North Bay being
405
00:21:50.109 --> 00:21:53.049
about a two-hour drive from New Liskard. I will be
406
00:21:53.069 --> 00:21:56.920
trying to corroborate this motocross version of Dennis' alibi with
407
00:21:56.980 --> 00:22:01.500
the others who were supposedly there. Dennis' stepson Jason, Jason's
408
00:22:01.579 --> 00:22:05.380
friend Joel, and of course Dennis' brother Andrej.
409
00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:09.440
And I was like, really? Like, I guess I wore
410
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:11.460
it on my face looking at him like, what the
411
00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:13.119
hell is going on here, you know.
412
00:22:13.289 --> 00:22:14.140
For a motocross?
413
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:17.849
And then he told me that he had taken my
414
00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:20.950
Aunt Sherry's car. And I thought that that was a
415
00:22:21.029 --> 00:22:23.529
weird thing to bring up because if he was gone
416
00:22:23.569 --> 00:22:25.910
to motocross, then they would have used one of their trucks,
417
00:22:26.569 --> 00:22:28.190
you know, to haul a motocross. It would make no
418
00:22:28.289 --> 00:22:29.009
sense that he would.
419
00:22:28.910 --> 00:22:29.750
Take a little car.
420
00:22:31.109 --> 00:22:34.410
Aunt Sherry was Andre's spouse. And her car is believed
421
00:22:34.430 --> 00:22:37.349
to have been a beige Ford Tempo hatchback or a
422
00:22:37.609 --> 00:22:42.230
blue Toyota Tercel hatchback. But I'm looking for confirmations on that.
423
00:22:43.109 --> 00:22:45.829
Dennis specifically said he used Aunt Sherry's car.
424
00:22:46.430 --> 00:22:49.309
I said, Aunt Sherry's car is if you're at motocross,
425
00:22:49.329 --> 00:22:55.059
how did you pull a motocross? And then he didn't
426
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.539
answer me and he was getting upset. And then that's
427
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.460
when he said, to be honest with you, it's making
428
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.019
me not feel good. And he was holding his chest.
429
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:08.059
And he was sweaty. And he was not nice colors,
430
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.119
that's for sure. And I told him, I said, just
431
00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:15.740
chill out. Like, it's fine, Dad. So he was just
432
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:19.720
getting very defensive after that when I started to question him,
433
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:23.049
you know. And then I got up and I said, well,
434
00:23:23.109 --> 00:23:24.789
I'm sorry to leave you like this, but I got
435
00:23:24.809 --> 00:23:26.750
to go to the dentist. And then he followed me
436
00:23:26.789 --> 00:23:29.230
through the house to, you know, bring me to the door.
437
00:23:29.269 --> 00:23:30.750
And I said, I love you. And he's like, yeah,
438
00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:32.950
I love you. That was it. That was the last
439
00:23:32.990 --> 00:23:35.779
conversation I ever had with my dad. And then I
440
00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:38.599
think it was literally four hours after that, he had
441
00:23:38.619 --> 00:23:46.099
this massive stroke. It was my boyfriend who found my
442
00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:50.329
dad unconscious on the living room floor. So, you know,
443
00:23:50.349 --> 00:23:53.359
we rushed him to the hospital and Then after that,
444
00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:54.359
my dad couldn't speak.
445
00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:59.279
Did your dad at any time say, I guess in
446
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:01.460
that conversation or any other one, did he say, look,
447
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:06.200
I didn't kill Mel? Did he ever deny killing Mel? No.
448
00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:10.769
He never said, I didn't kill Mel. This is, you know,
449
00:24:11.170 --> 00:24:12.549
stupid that they're talking to me.
450
00:24:13.329 --> 00:24:14.269
No. Okay.
451
00:24:14.789 --> 00:24:15.029
Okay.
452
00:24:15.410 --> 00:24:16.789
Which is a good point to bring up. I don't
453
00:24:16.809 --> 00:24:18.029
know why he would have never said that.
454
00:24:22.779 --> 00:24:24.940
And did you ever ask him directly? Did you say, dad,
455
00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:26.740
did you have something to do with Mel's disappearance?
456
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:31.660
No, never. Because like I say, the only time that
457
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:34.130
I started to look at him as there being a
458
00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:37.769
possibility was the day of his stroke. If I was
459
00:24:37.789 --> 00:24:40.529
given more time, I would have asked him, but I
460
00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:41.589
didn't get the chance to.
461
00:24:45.369 --> 00:24:48.109
Céline did try to talk to Dennis before his stroke,
462
00:24:48.210 --> 00:24:50.920
but got nowhere. And when she went to see him
463
00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:53.259
after his stroke, Dennis couldn't speak.
464
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:57.759
He could just say, like, all the way, all the way. Like,
465
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:01.369
that's all he could say. So it was really touch
466
00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:03.349
and go for Celine to be able to get anything
467
00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:04.329
out of him at that point.
468
00:25:06.269 --> 00:25:12.589
Dennis LaVey died on January 8, 2016. He was 51.
469
00:25:12.970 --> 00:25:16.009
Andre is Stephanie's uncle, and I've been trying to reach
470
00:25:16.049 --> 00:25:19.150
him to see if he can confirm his brother Dennis' alibi.
471
00:25:19.750 --> 00:25:23.160
So I ask about him. Did you ever talk to
472
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:24.319
Andre about that weekend?
473
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.220
Well, Andre, he's a different character. You can't really get
474
00:25:32.299 --> 00:25:35.420
anything out of him. I know that he's very defensive
475
00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:40.049
around that whole situation. I never point blank asked him,
476
00:25:40.549 --> 00:25:42.710
but I did speak to him just trying to see
477
00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:46.190
what he would say. And he said, this is ridiculous.
478
00:25:46.349 --> 00:25:47.150
They have nothing.
479
00:25:47.170 --> 00:25:49.549
So now they want to pick on the deads. He's like,
480
00:25:49.569 --> 00:25:52.309
your dad is not a person. You would give the
481
00:25:52.329 --> 00:25:57.059
shirt off his back. And I told him, I said, well, Andre,
482
00:25:57.099 --> 00:26:00.539
like my dad, I said, the only reason why this
483
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.880
is being questioned is because my dad showed Celine that
484
00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:06.160
he had marks on his arm. And he's like, well,
485
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:09.440
what marks? And I said, no, like he legitimately had marks,
486
00:26:10.299 --> 00:26:12.880
like nail marks in his arm. And he told Celine
487
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:16.220
they were from Melanie from play fighting. And he was like, well,
488
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:19.180
that's weird. And like, that was it. Like, then he
489
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:23.839
just changed the subject. So, Andre's like, it's hard to
490
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:25.549
come at him in a certain way because he's very
491
00:26:25.569 --> 00:26:28.970
defensive and he's very arrogant. So, I never really went
492
00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:29.930
deeper than that with him.
493
00:26:32.430 --> 00:26:36.250
Then something Sylvie said about Dennis working overseas comes to
494
00:26:36.289 --> 00:26:39.769
mind and I focus back on him. Dennis away from
495
00:26:39.890 --> 00:26:44.720
home for longish periods in different countries. And your mom
496
00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:47.650
said that your father traveled quite a bit, like overseas
497
00:26:47.710 --> 00:26:48.890
and for work or elsewhere?
498
00:26:48.910 --> 00:26:50.750
Oh, yeah.
499
00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:54.369
He was in Mongolia and Chile. You name it.
500
00:26:54.609 --> 00:26:55.109
Africa.
501
00:26:55.130 --> 00:26:55.829
He went everywhere.
502
00:26:56.970 --> 00:26:58.369
And how long would he stay away when he went?
503
00:26:58.789 --> 00:27:03.519
Months. I think his longest run was almost five months.
504
00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:07.180
He had no choice to work at that point because
505
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.480
we were going to lose our house and vehicles. So
506
00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:12.599
my dad decided to go to work. The best money
507
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:13.660
was overseas, right?
508
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:13.960
Yeah.
509
00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:17.759
There was a period of, I'd say, four years of
510
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:19.900
my life where he was not around very much.
511
00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:25.839
Considering what Lionel told me earlier about Dennis saying they'll
512
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.680
never find them, I wonder about Dennis and other cases,
513
00:27:30.309 --> 00:27:35.710
in or even outside of Ontario, abroad. All my own speculation,
514
00:27:35.789 --> 00:27:39.230
but I wonder if police would consider tracking Dennis' travels
515
00:27:39.289 --> 00:27:42.740
with this in mind. I've raised this question with police
516
00:27:42.819 --> 00:27:45.200
and they tell me they are aware of Dennis' international
517
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.220
work history and no further comment on the matter. Back
518
00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:53.519
to Stephanie. Do you remember him ever talking about Melanie?
519
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:55.119
About Melanie?
520
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:55.579
Yeah.
521
00:27:56.089 --> 00:28:00.009
I mean, he used to always say that whoever took
522
00:28:00.029 --> 00:28:02.910
her must have been really strong because he remembers wrestling
523
00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:06.430
with her and she was very strong. And he would
524
00:28:06.630 --> 00:28:08.890
often tell us that the day that we find out
525
00:28:08.930 --> 00:28:11.900
who did it, he was going to kill them. You know,
526
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.480
he ended up diving deep into drugs when he went
527
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.319
into Mongolia because he ran out of his prescription medication
528
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:20.539
for his pain. So he ended up doing a lot
529
00:28:20.579 --> 00:28:23.359
of cocaine. I believe it's when he was in Colombia.
530
00:28:23.829 --> 00:28:26.109
And when he came back, he told me that he
531
00:28:26.170 --> 00:28:29.509
had a dream that he was the one who killed Melanie.
532
00:28:29.750 --> 00:28:33.569
And it really, really bothered him for quite some time, actually.
533
00:28:33.849 --> 00:28:34.599
It really messed with him.
534
00:28:41.390 --> 00:28:43.289
And how did he tell you about that dream? Did
535
00:28:43.349 --> 00:28:45.359
it just, hey, hon, I had a dream that I
536
00:28:45.380 --> 00:28:47.279
killed Melanie? Or how did it come up?
537
00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:50.720
Well, we were just sitting in our sunroom talking, and
538
00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:54.819
he was telling me stories about when he was working away.
539
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:58.259
And then he was like, oh, yeah, he's like, and
540
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.440
I ended up having this dream while I was there
541
00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:04.230
that I was the one that killed Melanie. And he
542
00:29:04.269 --> 00:29:07.450
said he couldn't stop throwing up. He said it bothered
543
00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:10.349
him very deeply. And you can tell as he was
544
00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:13.029
talking about it, like it was still affecting him, this dream.
545
00:29:13.329 --> 00:29:15.410
And I told him, I said, well, dad, it's just
546
00:29:15.470 --> 00:29:17.490
a dream. Like, don't let it get to you like that.
547
00:29:17.750 --> 00:29:19.569
He's like, I know, but it makes me sick to
548
00:29:19.589 --> 00:29:21.450
my stomach. And that was it.
549
00:29:22.269 --> 00:29:23.789
And that was it. You just never brought it up again.
550
00:29:25.410 --> 00:29:25.569
No.
551
00:29:28.809 --> 00:29:30.230
And how do you think about your dad now?
552
00:29:30.970 --> 00:29:33.259
Me and my dad always had a complicated relationship. He
553
00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:35.299
was more like my child. I always took care of
554
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:37.470
him because he'd always get himself into messes and it
555
00:29:37.509 --> 00:29:39.670
was always me that got him out of his troubles
556
00:29:39.809 --> 00:29:42.970
and I was always there for him, which, you know,
557
00:29:43.069 --> 00:29:44.930
I kind of look back now and I think, what
558
00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:47.950
the hell? Because he put me through the ringer so much.
559
00:29:48.869 --> 00:29:51.079
But I think it's because I just always worried about him.
560
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.710
And the grieving process for my dad has been a
561
00:29:54.710 --> 00:29:57.019
roller coaster. You know, there's a lot of hurt, a
562
00:29:57.059 --> 00:30:00.789
lot of hate. And mixed emotions around the whole thing.
563
00:30:04.069 --> 00:30:07.079
There's just something that I forgot to mention. My whole life,
564
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:09.880
I didn't know this, but after my dad passed away,
565
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:12.960
we got his medical files and it is listed in
566
00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:15.900
there that he was split personality. And we didn't know,
567
00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.900
which would explain a lot. You know what I mean?
568
00:30:18.940 --> 00:30:21.069
I always blamed it on the drugs where like sometimes
569
00:30:21.130 --> 00:30:23.269
I'd accuse him of being high, but maybe he wasn't.
570
00:30:24.529 --> 00:30:27.730
But my dad was never treated or medicated for this.
571
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.299
It says in the file split personality, that's what it says?
572
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:33.599
Yeah.
573
00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:39.819
Split personality refers to dissociative identity disorder, a psychological condition
574
00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:44.079
where a person's identity becomes fragmented into two or more
575
00:30:44.180 --> 00:30:49.140
distinct identities or alters. In some cases, memories are not
576
00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:53.920
shared between alters. It is complex, on a spectrum, and
577
00:30:54.049 --> 00:30:55.980
firm diagnoses are hard to come by.
578
00:30:58.569 --> 00:31:00.029
We were shocked. We didn't even know.
579
00:31:00.670 --> 00:31:03.150
Where did that diagnosis come from? A family doctor or
580
00:31:03.210 --> 00:31:03.650
somewhere else?
581
00:31:04.289 --> 00:31:07.150
Well, I don't remember which doctor it was listed under
582
00:31:07.170 --> 00:31:10.789
who diagnosed him, but it's there in his files.
583
00:31:11.329 --> 00:31:14.430
I asked for more information about this diagnosis, and Steph
584
00:31:14.470 --> 00:31:16.900
says she will look through a recently flooded basement for
585
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:20.680
the files. Could take some time. I want to hear
586
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.140
more about this from Steph.
587
00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:27.500
Let's say it was about a month before his stroke where...
588
00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:30.960
We were sitting, and we had lots of, like, life conversations.
589
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.240
You know, we're both smokers. We'd go sit outside and
590
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.920
smoke and talk. And we were having a great time.
591
00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:40.740
And then all of a sudden, his face changed, and
592
00:31:40.779 --> 00:31:43.299
his whole demeanor got different. And this is what I mean, like,
593
00:31:43.339 --> 00:31:45.819
when my dad would, you could see the shift in him,
594
00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:50.539
where he would get, like, weird. And I just looked
595
00:31:50.619 --> 00:31:53.240
at him, and I sensed, like, a really bad energy.
596
00:31:53.269 --> 00:31:55.660
And I said, Dad, you want to hurt me right now, eh?
597
00:31:56.509 --> 00:31:58.829
And then he just looked up at me, like, in shock.
598
00:31:58.890 --> 00:32:01.750
And he was like, I'm so sorry. And he started crying.
599
00:32:01.789 --> 00:32:03.750
He's like, I don't know why. I don't know why
600
00:32:03.789 --> 00:32:07.809
I want to hurt you right now. And I was like, okay. Like,
601
00:32:07.890 --> 00:32:10.069
I just thought it was really weird. But he was, like,
602
00:32:10.130 --> 00:32:11.869
so shocked that I felt his vibe.
603
00:32:11.890 --> 00:32:12.230
You know.
604
00:32:13.069 --> 00:32:14.869
And it was strange.
605
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:19.819
On another occasion after his stroke, Steph tells me the
606
00:32:19.859 --> 00:32:23.960
story of a private investigator, some kind of law enforcement agent,
607
00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:27.299
coming to visit Dennis in his hospital room to talk
608
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.220
to him about Mel. This could be the moment where
609
00:32:30.269 --> 00:32:32.910
police say they spoke to Dennis before he died. I'm
610
00:32:32.950 --> 00:32:36.069
not sure. Steph went to be with her father as
611
00:32:36.170 --> 00:32:37.670
support during this visit.
612
00:32:39.930 --> 00:32:41.690
So I sat on the bed next to him, and
613
00:32:41.750 --> 00:32:45.769
I said, you know, Dad, it's okay. And then he
614
00:32:45.789 --> 00:32:48.630
started to, like, get really, really upset. He was still
615
00:32:48.670 --> 00:32:50.910
crying when I showed up. But then he, like, he
616
00:32:50.950 --> 00:32:55.069
only had one hand that worked properly. that wasn't paralyzed,
617
00:32:55.549 --> 00:32:57.990
he gestured to me with his finger to come closer
618
00:32:58.029 --> 00:32:59.869
to him. And I didn't like the look he had
619
00:32:59.950 --> 00:33:02.829
on his face, so I was hesitant. But I went anyways,
620
00:33:03.049 --> 00:33:06.069
and I was wearing a scarf. And he pulled down
621
00:33:06.109 --> 00:33:08.309
on my scarf, which started to choke me, and he
622
00:33:08.349 --> 00:33:10.349
brought me closer to him, and then he put his
623
00:33:10.430 --> 00:33:11.390
hand around my neck.
624
00:33:13.299 --> 00:33:13.710
And then I.
625
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.779
Pulled away, and I was like, God, what are you doing? Like,
626
00:33:16.819 --> 00:33:19.119
why are you trying to hurt me? And then he
627
00:33:19.180 --> 00:33:21.259
pointed his finger, like, you know, like when you wave
628
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.190
your finger in somebody's face, And he was looking at
629
00:33:24.250 --> 00:33:26.529
me and I said, it's okay, dad. I'll just tell
630
00:33:26.569 --> 00:33:30.009
them not to come back. And then he gestured his
631
00:33:30.049 --> 00:33:33.380
head like, okay, like, yeah. And then that was it.
632
00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:36.420
And I thought it was really strange. I don't know
633
00:33:36.460 --> 00:33:38.319
what he was thinking in his head, but he literally
634
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:43.559
tried to strangle me over it. He was just kind
635
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:46.140
of like an overgrown child. Like he was just, I
636
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.619
don't know, it's hard to explain, but then there was
637
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.420
the dark side of him. you know, where he was
638
00:33:51.460 --> 00:33:56.059
an addict and he was a predator. And so this
639
00:33:56.099 --> 00:33:57.779
is what I mean when I say, like, grieving my
640
00:33:57.819 --> 00:34:00.480
dad was different because it feels like grieving two different people,
641
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:01.059
you know?
642
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:07.480
Dennis being two different people is a theme I've heard
643
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.980
from those closest to him, a front-facing side that kept
644
00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:13.860
Sylvie in the dark for 37 years and his daughter
645
00:34:13.949 --> 00:34:17.829
supporting him in hospital, and the other side of jail
646
00:34:17.889 --> 00:34:22.000
and predatory assaults. It's a theme that takes me back
647
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:28.989
to the scratches and Melanie. Do you remember seeing him
648
00:34:29.090 --> 00:34:31.250
play fight with Melanie? I guess we were quite young,
649
00:34:31.289 --> 00:34:32.949
but do you remember ever seeing them play fight?
650
00:34:32.969 --> 00:34:35.489
Never, and it doesn't even make sense to me that
651
00:34:35.510 --> 00:34:38.409
that would have happened because my dad was so sore
652
00:34:38.429 --> 00:34:40.449
all the time. I don't see him just get up
653
00:34:40.489 --> 00:34:42.280
and be like, yeah, we're going to play fight. Who
654
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.260
does that? Like, I never went to my friend's house
655
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:47.489
and started play fighting with her dad. Like, that doesn't
656
00:34:47.570 --> 00:34:49.929
make any sense to me. I've never seen him, like,
657
00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:51.769
throw down and be like, we're going to have a
658
00:34:51.809 --> 00:34:52.889
wrestling match, you know?
659
00:34:53.909 --> 00:34:55.909
The timing of it doesn't make sense to me either,
660
00:34:55.929 --> 00:34:59.280
because Sylvie said that Melanie had been there the day
661
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:02.679
she disappeared, but that your dad wasn't there. So she
662
00:35:03.219 --> 00:35:06.239
doesn't understand the explanation about the scratches.
663
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.139
It doesn't make any sense because he wouldn't have seen
664
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:12.159
her in that time frame. And Flynn said that he
665
00:35:12.260 --> 00:35:15.199
showed her those marks three days after Melanie went missing
666
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:15.730
and she said.
667
00:35:15.630 --> 00:35:16.429
They were still raw.
668
00:35:16.449 --> 00:35:19.389
Because Melanie went to see my mom the day she
669
00:35:19.429 --> 00:35:22.750
went missing. And my dad was already gone, like on
670
00:35:22.769 --> 00:35:23.969
whatever trip he was on.
671
00:35:26.449 --> 00:35:30.760
Dennis, alone or maybe with others, leaves on Friday to
672
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:36.000
go somewhere. Fishing or motocross are possibilities. But Celina's also
673
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:38.539
said she heard Dennis admit he was at a strip
674
00:35:38.579 --> 00:35:42.309
club over that weekend. And then Dennis is allegedly back
675
00:35:42.369 --> 00:35:46.670
by the Sunday morning of Melanie's disappearance. Research shows that
676
00:35:46.769 --> 00:35:50.349
there was one or two motocross racetracks around the area,
677
00:35:50.510 --> 00:35:53.650
which were possibly operational at the time. But I have
678
00:35:53.670 --> 00:35:56.630
yet to find any indication of an event that weekend.
679
00:35:58.050 --> 00:35:59.909
And you spoke to police recently about this?
680
00:36:00.429 --> 00:36:00.590
Yeah.
681
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:03.219
And is that the first time you've ever talked to
682
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:03.739
police about it?
683
00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:04.639
Yeah.
684
00:36:05.380 --> 00:36:07.079
It's all kind of come together at once and then
685
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.539
maybe come down a bit heavy on certain people like yourself.
686
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:15.039
Yeah, I'm able to kind of separate the fact that
687
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:18.329
it's my dad and I just want justice for Mel.
688
00:36:19.210 --> 00:36:23.170
If he's guilty of doing this, it's just horrendous. You know,
689
00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:27.039
like I've seen Flynn suffer. as long as I can remember.
690
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.440
And I'm a mom. You know, if anybody did something
691
00:36:30.460 --> 00:36:32.300
like that to one of my children, like, I think
692
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:37.500
she's handled this with grace, really. She's a spectacular person. But,
693
00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:42.110
you know, bottom line, all I care about is Melanie
694
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:44.389
being found. Justice for Mel.
695
00:36:47.489 --> 00:36:49.010
I know that my son is somewhere alive.
696
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.860
This is Deborah Tice. Her son Austin is one of
697
00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:57.599
the biggest missing person cases in the world and for
698
00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:01.019
years I've been searching for him. It's a case like
699
00:37:01.059 --> 00:37:04.179
I never imagined and there are people who don't want
700
00:37:04.219 --> 00:37:08.110
the truth to come out. From the BBC, this is
701
00:37:08.329 --> 00:37:12.829
I'm Not A Monster Presents Where Is Austin Tice? Listen
702
00:37:12.969 --> 00:37:16.269
on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
703
00:37:19.869 --> 00:37:21.070
Hi there, it's Jessie.
704
00:37:21.090 --> 00:37:21.750
Hi Jessie, how are you?
705
00:37:22.610 --> 00:37:22.929
I'm good.
706
00:37:23.170 --> 00:37:28.289
Thanks for doing this today. Jessie Ethier, Melanie's only sibling.
707
00:37:29.110 --> 00:37:32.840
She now lives in southern Ontario. Jessie was quite young
708
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:35.500
when Mel went missing and the majority of her life
709
00:37:35.539 --> 00:37:39.440
has been dominated by her sister's disappearance. But Céline told
710
00:37:39.460 --> 00:37:42.760
me that speaking to Jessie about Mel could be healing
711
00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:46.980
for her. So I've called. How old were you at
712
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:48.199
the time that Mel disappeared then?
713
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:49.989
I was five.
714
00:37:51.219 --> 00:37:53.099
I remember she used to take me.
715
00:37:53.099 --> 00:37:57.679
Everywhere with her. So if she was going out rollerblading,
716
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.380
we'd go out together and we'd go play basketball. We'd
717
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:04.079
play mini putt and she would bring me to the
718
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:07.840
park all the time. So I feel like whenever my
719
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:11.199
mom either needed a break or was like off to
720
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:14.929
work or whatever, she would just be in charge of me.
721
00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:16.050
She was almost like.
722
00:38:16.070 --> 00:38:17.269
A second mom.
723
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:20.989
And did Céline, your mom, did she ever sort of
724
00:38:21.150 --> 00:38:22.949
try to explain to you what was going on?
725
00:38:23.730 --> 00:38:26.730
I don't remember her ever saying, like, Mel's not coming back.
726
00:38:26.789 --> 00:38:29.250
I don't think she's ever said that. Like, still to
727
00:38:29.269 --> 00:38:31.630
this day, she doesn't tell me anything. So a lot
728
00:38:31.670 --> 00:38:35.260
of the things that I know is because I've made
729
00:38:35.489 --> 00:38:39.400
posts on my sister's page and people have come forward
730
00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:40.460
to me with information.
731
00:38:41.380 --> 00:38:44.820
Jessie has interacted on a Facebook group to try generating tips.
732
00:38:45.860 --> 00:38:46.099
I mean.
733
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:51.039
Being Mel's sister up there is really not easy. Everybody
734
00:38:51.099 --> 00:38:54.820
knows you or knows of you. I think it's kind
735
00:38:54.860 --> 00:38:56.800
of like that for everybody. But for me, it was
736
00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:00.269
like everybody knew me because of that, right? Once I
737
00:39:00.289 --> 00:39:02.429
was a teenager going out by myself, it was like
738
00:39:02.949 --> 00:39:06.710
random people in Walmart or any store, grocery store or whatever.
739
00:39:06.769 --> 00:39:10.010
They'd be like, oh, did you guys hear anything?
740
00:39:10.369 --> 00:39:11.230
Like constant.
741
00:39:11.369 --> 00:39:13.800
And especially if I'm walking with my mom, right? Because
742
00:39:14.090 --> 00:39:16.440
it's a little obvious who we are when we were together.
743
00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:21.170
But honestly, I did feel safe-ish growing up there. But
744
00:39:21.170 --> 00:39:23.880
there is a lot of racism. So that was always
745
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:27.059
something that I questioned as well. It was like, was
746
00:39:27.139 --> 00:39:30.360
it a hit on her because she's Black? A lot
747
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:34.380
of name calling, like the N-word is used or was
748
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:39.369
used so often, even as like a six-year-old. Like I
749
00:39:39.409 --> 00:39:42.809
remember jumping from school to school just to.
750
00:39:42.829 --> 00:39:43.989
Get away from it, right?
751
00:39:44.550 --> 00:39:48.079
I've pretty well been in every single school in that
752
00:39:48.139 --> 00:39:53.719
town and surrounding areas because of it. So, yeah, it
753
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.460
wasn't the best growing up until I hit about high school.
754
00:39:56.519 --> 00:39:59.119
Like high school age, people were like, oh, like we
755
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:04.780
wish we were black. But as an elementary school student,
756
00:40:04.989 --> 00:40:10.010
especially in the French schools, I feel like there was
757
00:40:10.050 --> 00:40:11.369
a lot more racism and.
758
00:40:11.909 --> 00:40:14.449
Did you encounter any kind of violence? Was anybody sort
759
00:40:14.489 --> 00:40:17.530
of interested in bullying you physically or verbally?
760
00:40:18.510 --> 00:40:21.389
Yeah, there was a lot of that. Yeah, for me
761
00:40:21.469 --> 00:40:23.849
as a parent now, I did not want to raise
762
00:40:23.909 --> 00:40:25.570
my kids there because I didn't want them to go
763
00:40:25.610 --> 00:40:29.639
through it. Mind you, I think at that point in time,
764
00:40:29.659 --> 00:40:34.719
it was starting to become normal, I guess. So there's
765
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.780
a lot more people of color moving into town, but
766
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:42.539
I could probably still count them on two hands. Obviously,
767
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.619
I lost, like, my best friend, and I do want justice,
768
00:40:45.739 --> 00:40:48.159
and I don't want them to walk freely and live
769
00:40:48.219 --> 00:40:52.159
a better life. I don't. I don't have a sister anymore.
770
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.179
I can imagine, and I can hear it in your voice.
771
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:57.019
It's been a pretty tough run for you.
772
00:40:57.800 --> 00:40:58.079
Yeah.
773
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:05.360
And my questions are about to make it tougher. So
774
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.900
I don't know if you have any memories of Dennis.
775
00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:10.639
What can you tell me about Dennis?
776
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:15.380
Um, drug addict.
777
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:21.039
Used to just hang out in his garage and do
778
00:41:21.099 --> 00:41:22.679
drugs and drink beers.
779
00:41:22.699 --> 00:41:26.519
Yeah, like I remember a lot of stuff because like
780
00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:30.590
we were really close to that family. Sylvie talked to
781
00:41:30.670 --> 00:41:31.570
you about him?
782
00:41:31.590 --> 00:41:33.329
I have talked to Sylvie, yeah.
783
00:41:34.630 --> 00:41:35.909
What? Okay.
784
00:41:37.710 --> 00:41:38.309
Yeah.
785
00:41:39.730 --> 00:41:42.090
Dennis basically tried sleeping with me when I was like,
786
00:41:42.090 --> 00:41:43.579
15 years old.
787
00:41:46.500 --> 00:41:48.420
He always tried to be like the cool dad.
788
00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:52.980
And I think it was when his father passed away,
789
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.780
he reached out to me and he was like, Hey,
790
00:41:56.519 --> 00:42:00.460
would you mind coming to my mom's house to clean
791
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:04.480
the house? Cause she's just been a mess and she
792
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:08.300
hasn't like done anything around the house. So I was like, okay, sure.
793
00:42:08.389 --> 00:42:10.150
He was like, I'll throw you some extra cash.
794
00:42:11.500 --> 00:42:14.010
At the time, Jessie says she was living alone in
795
00:42:14.050 --> 00:42:17.010
a nearby town, working and homeschooling herself.
796
00:42:18.070 --> 00:42:21.670
He ended up picking me up. He ended up driving
797
00:42:21.690 --> 00:42:24.010
to New Liskerd, just us two.
798
00:42:24.110 --> 00:42:27.269
But his mom lived in North Cobalt, which is a
799
00:42:27.309 --> 00:42:29.969
complete different direction. I lived in Hullaberry, so I lived
800
00:42:29.989 --> 00:42:31.449
in the middle of the two places.
801
00:42:31.590 --> 00:42:33.280
Right. So he brought me to the.
802
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:39.099
Complete opposite direction, to New Liskerd. And he went to
803
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.909
the LCBO. He stopped in the middle of the bush
804
00:42:41.949 --> 00:42:44.599
somewhere to pick up drugs. He was just like, oh,
805
00:42:44.610 --> 00:42:47.889
I need to pick something up. And then he stopped
806
00:42:47.949 --> 00:42:48.650
at a motel room.
807
00:42:50.409 --> 00:42:52.400
So he said his mom and him weren't getting along.
808
00:42:54.420 --> 00:42:56.679
And he said he was getting in the motel room.
809
00:42:57.820 --> 00:43:01.340
After picking up liquor and drugs, Dennis took Jesse to
810
00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:03.500
a hotel on the outskirts of New Liskard.
811
00:43:04.219 --> 00:43:07.510
And, uh... yeah so I was just like hey whatever
812
00:43:07.570 --> 00:43:09.449
so he's like I'm just gonna like pay for my
813
00:43:09.469 --> 00:43:12.369
motel room drop my clothes in there and then I'll
814
00:43:12.409 --> 00:43:14.269
drive you to my mom's to go clean the house
815
00:43:15.130 --> 00:43:18.300
and I was like okay but I had a boyfriend
816
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:20.539
in high school at the time so I was like
817
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:23.900
I had plans to go to his house on the
818
00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:27.940
weekend so um I was like I have to be
819
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.050
at the school at like 2 45 like we're wasting
820
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:35.059
cleaning time you know So he ended up renting the
821
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:38.780
motel room and then he drove around back. It's like
822
00:43:38.820 --> 00:43:43.400
by the Husky gas station. So he drove around the back,
823
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:45.760
opened his door and then he was like, are you
824
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:48.690
going to come in? I was like, well, you're just
825
00:43:48.710 --> 00:43:51.650
dropping your stuff, right? And he's like, well, just come
826
00:43:51.690 --> 00:43:54.570
in for a minute. And I was like, I'll just
827
00:43:54.630 --> 00:43:54.969
wait here.
828
00:43:54.989 --> 00:43:56.250
He's like, no, no, just come in.
829
00:43:57.369 --> 00:43:59.469
So I felt so pressured. I was like, this is
830
00:43:59.570 --> 00:44:01.400
so weird. Why is he asking me to go in
831
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:05.690
this motel room, right? And then I went in and
832
00:44:05.710 --> 00:44:07.150
I just sat at the door. There was like a
833
00:44:07.190 --> 00:44:10.750
chair there. And then he ended up doing a line
834
00:44:10.769 --> 00:44:14.130
of cocaine in front of me. And he went in
835
00:44:14.170 --> 00:44:16.150
the bathroom, took all of his clothes off, and he
836
00:44:16.190 --> 00:44:20.309
came out in a towel. And he asked me if
837
00:44:20.369 --> 00:44:24.570
I wanted a line of drugs. And I didn't do
838
00:44:24.610 --> 00:44:28.639
drugs then or ever. So I was just like, what
839
00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:38.030
is this guy doing? and my phone was dying so
840
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:40.760
I sent a text message to my boyfriend and I
841
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:44.219
was like if I'm not at the buses at 2
842
00:44:44.210 --> 00:44:46.420
45 you need to call the police and tell them
843
00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:48.719
that I'm in I didn't even know what room number
844
00:44:48.739 --> 00:44:50.320
I was in I was just like I'm in the
845
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:54.090
back of the whatever motel it was and he was
846
00:44:54.150 --> 00:44:56.800
freaking out because he was in class It was just like,
847
00:44:56.820 --> 00:44:58.579
what's going on? I was like, I need to turn
848
00:44:58.619 --> 00:45:01.500
my phone off in case I need to reopen it
849
00:45:01.539 --> 00:45:05.190
before it dies. And Dennis went and sat at the
850
00:45:05.309 --> 00:45:07.150
end of the bed and he was like looking at me.
851
00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:13.369
He was describing my body naked. And he had locked
852
00:45:13.409 --> 00:45:15.010
the door when he came out of the bathroom in
853
00:45:15.030 --> 00:45:16.980
the towel. He locked, I think there was like two
854
00:45:17.019 --> 00:45:18.059
or three locks on the door.
855
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:23.760
Jesse, a teenager, now in a locked motel room with Dennis.
856
00:45:24.469 --> 00:45:27.050
What she describes next is difficult to hear.
857
00:45:29.389 --> 00:45:32.130
And then he did another line of drugs. He was
858
00:45:32.210 --> 00:45:36.409
ready to crack open some alcohol. Describing my body naked,
859
00:45:37.250 --> 00:45:38.210
being really weird.
860
00:45:38.250 --> 00:45:41.150
He's like, oh, I would eat you out all day.
861
00:45:41.309 --> 00:45:43.110
Like you don't even have to do nothing.
862
00:45:43.170 --> 00:45:45.070
And I was like, Dennis, I have a boyfriend.
863
00:45:45.130 --> 00:45:45.949
I need to go.
864
00:45:46.449 --> 00:45:48.889
I thought I was supposed to clean your mom's house today.
865
00:45:48.909 --> 00:45:52.110
I didn't know how to handle the situation. I was
866
00:45:52.150 --> 00:45:56.329
breaking out internally. And I was trying to, like, remind him, like,
867
00:45:56.489 --> 00:45:58.590
I'm supposed to clean your mom's house. You know I
868
00:45:58.630 --> 00:45:59.449
have a boyfriend.
869
00:45:59.929 --> 00:46:00.929
You're Steph's dad.
870
00:46:01.309 --> 00:46:04.090
I've known you my whole life. It was so awkward.
871
00:46:04.110 --> 00:46:09.280
There was a hot tub in the room. He literally
872
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:11.980
dropped his towel, got in the hot tub, and I
873
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.460
just sat there staring at my phone pretending it was.
874
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.960
On, like, fake texting.
875
00:46:15.980 --> 00:46:20.230
And then he eventually got out because I was like,
876
00:46:20.329 --> 00:46:22.409
I need to go. Like, the buses are coming. Like,
877
00:46:23.739 --> 00:46:26.480
I need to get out of the room. But there's
878
00:46:26.559 --> 00:46:29.039
three locks and this guy was way bigger than I was.
879
00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:31.110
I was like, there's no point in me even trying
880
00:46:31.130 --> 00:46:33.550
to get all these three locks off the door because
881
00:46:34.070 --> 00:46:36.130
if I screw up, I'm screwed, right?
882
00:46:38.789 --> 00:46:42.050
All told, Jessie estimates she was locked in the room
883
00:46:42.090 --> 00:46:44.250
with Dennis for about four hours.
884
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:48.639
I just sat there still and I stared at my
885
00:46:48.699 --> 00:46:52.400
phone and let him do his thing and then finally
886
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.159
he got in the car and Because I was like,
887
00:46:55.219 --> 00:46:57.340
I need to go, like, Chad's waiting for me, he's
888
00:46:57.389 --> 00:47:00.889
waiting for me, whatever. And I got to the buses
889
00:47:00.949 --> 00:47:03.050
right on time, like, my boyfriend was ready to call
890
00:47:03.090 --> 00:47:08.309
the police. He didn't physically touch me, but he's also
891
00:47:08.349 --> 00:47:11.840
done this to other friends of Steph's, right? So he's
892
00:47:11.980 --> 00:47:14.599
pulled the whole, oh, I'll drop you off from the party, like,
893
00:47:14.659 --> 00:47:17.239
drops off his own daughter first and then drives them home.
894
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:20.260
Jessie runs through a list of names of girls she
895
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:23.630
says she knows a similar situation happened to with Dennis.
896
00:47:24.500 --> 00:47:26.940
And I've confirmed accounts from a few of these victims
897
00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:27.579
where I'm able.
898
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:31.340
And everybody was around 15, 16, like really young.
899
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.559
After what happened with Dennis, Jessie says she stayed away
900
00:47:35.619 --> 00:47:38.119
from the family and eventually cut off ties.
901
00:47:38.139 --> 00:47:40.420
I couldn't care.
902
00:47:40.300 --> 00:47:43.960
Less about that family, to be honest. I found it
903
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.679
really weird when I.
904
00:47:45.699 --> 00:47:48.449
So it was almost like a daily thing we saw
905
00:47:48.469 --> 00:47:51.380
each other growing up. We would go and eat poutine
906
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:53.760
together or we would hang out at their house in
907
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:56.909
Halle Berry or we'd go to the park together.
908
00:47:58.030 --> 00:48:00.650
Was it really surprising to you then when this happened
909
00:48:00.670 --> 00:48:01.530
or were you stunned?
910
00:48:02.489 --> 00:48:04.550
I knew that he had done it to other friends
911
00:48:04.610 --> 00:48:06.730
of Steph's so I was like this is happening to
912
00:48:06.750 --> 00:48:09.309
me now and I was like how is this happening
913
00:48:09.329 --> 00:48:11.570
because like he was almost like a father figure type
914
00:48:11.610 --> 00:48:13.289
deal because I saw him so much.
915
00:48:13.869 --> 00:48:15.769
We would always hang out in the garage.
916
00:48:15.389 --> 00:48:18.630
With him and another uncle and And.
917
00:48:18.710 --> 00:48:21.309
They would like play with their bikes or their skidoos
918
00:48:21.369 --> 00:48:25.030
or whatever. And always like cool dad type of guy.
919
00:48:26.269 --> 00:48:29.329
But then when we became teenagers, it was like he's
920
00:48:29.349 --> 00:48:30.949
like creepy dad kind of guy.
921
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:38.179
Jesse describes another occasion at a cabin Dennis had rented
922
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.780
near a nearby vacation spot where she and Steph walked
923
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:45.150
in after Dennis had been smoking crack. It makes me
924
00:48:45.210 --> 00:48:48.050
wonder about what others have said about his personality changes
925
00:48:48.469 --> 00:48:50.369
and the effect drug taking might have had.
926
00:48:50.389 --> 00:48:55.780
Yeah, multiple occasions it was like drugs and always alcohol
927
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:56.780
involved with him.
928
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.059
On that incident that you were describing when you went
929
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.980
to the hotel room, did you notice any kind of
930
00:49:03.019 --> 00:49:05.460
a change in him? Did he seem like the same
931
00:49:05.539 --> 00:49:07.920
person or did you feel like there was a different
932
00:49:07.980 --> 00:49:09.699
person in front of you? Did he feel like a
933
00:49:10.139 --> 00:49:10.980
different guy kind of?
934
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:14.730
He was definitely the same guy when he picked me up.
935
00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:18.900
After he did that line of drugs, it was like.
936
00:49:20.650 --> 00:49:22.570
When he started doing drugs in front of me, I
937
00:49:22.590 --> 00:49:24.309
was like, well, this isn't normal.
938
00:49:25.630 --> 00:49:28.889
I don't know. I don't... Like, he was obviously a pedophile.
939
00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:34.639
Because it was always these young girls. And at that moment,
940
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:36.480
it did hit me. Because I was like, what if
941
00:49:36.539 --> 00:49:38.239
he is involved in Mel's disappearance?
942
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:38.719
Because.
943
00:49:40.610 --> 00:49:43.389
It always grows around Mel's age.
944
00:49:46.170 --> 00:49:48.860
When you're thinking about Dennis with regards to Mel, what's
945
00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:51.320
your thoughts on that now? Because I think you've had
946
00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:52.460
some time to think about that.
947
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:58.719
I don't know, like, still to this day, because, like,
948
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.269
I know around that time, I was like, this guy, like,
949
00:50:01.329 --> 00:50:02.710
has to be involved, right?
950
00:50:03.909 --> 00:50:08.429
But I don't know if it was... I don't know.
951
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.940
It seems like just at the time when people were
952
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:17.300
trying to question him, he died. And I think that
953
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:19.480
there were opportunities for questioning him that.
954
00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:19.840
I've heard of.
955
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:23.739
Yeah, like, well, I never really thought he would have
956
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.840
done anything to me, to be honest. I didn't see
957
00:50:26.860 --> 00:50:29.840
him as that person until that incident happened.
958
00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:32.639
I don't know. I've never actually told my mom about
959
00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:33.070
it either.
960
00:50:35.949 --> 00:50:40.630
Conversations like this take a toll and are hard on subjects.
961
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:45.360
But Jesse has given an invaluable eyewitness account of how
962
00:50:45.449 --> 00:50:49.730
Dennis LeVay used to operate, and I'm grateful. I wish
963
00:50:49.750 --> 00:50:51.230
you the best. Thanks so much, Jesse.
964
00:50:51.250 --> 00:50:52.530
Okay, thanks.
965
00:50:52.750 --> 00:50:53.389
Okay, take care.
966
00:50:54.170 --> 00:50:54.610
Bye. Bye-bye.
967
00:50:58.670 --> 00:51:01.929
Dennis LeVay drew attention to himself in the way a
968
00:51:02.010 --> 00:51:05.300
child who has done something wrong signals that they've done
969
00:51:05.380 --> 00:51:08.940
so by telling stories that parallel the truth or contain
970
00:51:09.059 --> 00:51:13.889
elements of truth. The story changed about the scratches, they're
971
00:51:13.929 --> 00:51:18.010
from Mel or from branches while looking for Mel. Where
972
00:51:18.050 --> 00:51:21.949
he was that weekend, fishing or motocross, a strip club.
973
00:51:22.650 --> 00:51:25.989
Has a history of sexual advances on teenage girls, the
974
00:51:26.010 --> 00:51:31.679
daughters of friends. Sexually harassed Melanie's sister. Has dreams, he says,
975
00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:36.820
where he is Mel's killer. Stories of a drug-addled, volatile personality.
976
00:51:37.699 --> 00:51:40.760
Mentions of Mel's name along with another female they will
977
00:51:41.019 --> 00:51:44.400
never find. All of it seems to point in the
978
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:47.869
direction we're all thinking, and even members of his family
979
00:51:47.929 --> 00:51:51.190
have contemplated. I need to talk to the others who
980
00:51:51.230 --> 00:51:55.550
were supposedly with Dennis across the weekend Melanie disappeared. His
981
00:51:55.610 --> 00:52:17.639
stepson Jason, Jason's friend Joel, and Dennis' brother Andre. The
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Next Call is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgen.
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The series is also produced by Hadil Abdel-Nabi. Our senior
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producer and sound design lead is Cecil Fernandez. Emily Cannell
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is our digital producer and our story editor is Chris Oak.
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The executive producer of CBC Podcasts is Araf Noorani. To
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see images from the investigation, find us on Facebook and
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Instagram at CBC Podcasts. And if you're looking for another
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podcast to listen to, check out The Village from CBC Podcasts.
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Season 2 of the award-winning series is available now. Find
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The Village on the CBC Listen app or wherever you
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get your podcasts. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca
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slash podcasts.