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Welcome to the Somehow Together podcast, where we explore faith, connection, and everything that holds us together.
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I'm Miranda.
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And I'm Erica.
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You know, life is messy.
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Relationships are messy.
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But we weren't meant to do life alone.
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And God is still at work in the middle of it all.
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So we're still showing up somehow together.
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Welcome to today's episode of Somehow Together.
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My name is Miranda, and we are going to be talking about something that I think we've all felt at some point.
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Have you ever had a relationship where you've thought that nothing is technically wrong, but for some reason it just feels harder than it should?
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Maybe, maybe you're overthinking things or something just feels off or you're frustrated, but you can't fully explain why.
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And it seems like the other person has no idea that anything is even wrong.
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It's when we say things like, I think that this is confusing, or what is happening in this relationship, but there's nothing really big to point to.
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It's not dramatic or broken, it just feels heavier than expected.
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And so today we're going to be talking about why relationships feel harder or heavier than they should and what might be going on underneath.
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How things like expectations, communications, and unspoken needs play into the relationships that we find ourselves in.
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So, Erica, as we start today's episode, do you feel like this is true?
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Like relationships can feel heavier than they should sometimes?
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I definitely think that can happen at times.
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Um, when I was thinking through these questions in advance, the situations that kept popping into my mind were the ones, the relationships that feel the most heavy are the ones that I feel like I'm carrying the responsibility of the relationship.
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Doesn't mean that the other person's doing anything wrong necessarily, but it feels like I'm the one carrying the burden of the connection or the um, or maybe they're in a time of trial and hardship, and I'm feeling like I'm carrying them through that for a really long time.
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And I think for seasons, that's fine.
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We all have that happen in our lives, and for seasons, that's that sometimes we need to rely on other people, which is fine.
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But when that lasts too long, or the the person won't get help, or it feels like they're stuck, then it feels like um the relationship gets very, very heavy at that point.
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Um, I I don't know that we make it in relationships very long when they are heavy or uncomfortable.
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I was thinking through like who do we stick it out very much when relationships are hard and uncomfortable?
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And I don't know that we do.
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I think we tend to drop people, um, even if it's subtly.
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Yeah.
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Um, unless we have some kind of like long, long-term commitment, you know, to them, like our spouses or our kids, um, or our family members, you know, extended family members, or um we're trapped in like a work situation with somebody, and um we have to kind of uproot our life situation to get out of that relationship.
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Those commitments for force us sometimes to keep navigating uncomfortable relationships.
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But I think a lot of times with friends, we opt out and we just kind of back away from the connection, even if it's gradually um when they feel heavy or like too much.
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Um, you know, I have to carry a lot of heaviness with work or a discomfort with work situations or sometimes with church situations, but I can set a certain amount of emotional boundary with in those situations that allow me to continue doing my job without burning out, right?
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Yeah.
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But I feel like when you get into personal relationships or friendships, it's a whole nother beast.
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Yeah.
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And that carrying of each other's burdens has to be a balancing act and it has to be a fair balance and a and a give and take, so that you're not the one that's always pouring out and giving you need something back, or it's not gonna be worth the effort, which sounds kind of selfish coming out of my mouth, but it is true, and I think boundaries are important.
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So, anyway, what are what are your thoughts around it?
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Yeah, the the reality with relationships, and we're just diving straight in.
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Like there was no lightness or fluffy coming into this conversation because relationships are that important that sometimes we get to skip the fluff and just dive, dive into it.
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And the reality is that relationships do take work.
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They take work uh both both sides, are needing to pour into each other.
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And I think when we look at sometimes what makes relationships kind of unbalanced or uneven, sometimes it's not even about what is happening.
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It's more about what's not being said.
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And so I thought about as you were talking about how we just will slightly pull back and step out of relationships instead of pressing into.
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And I wonder how much of that is fear around bringing up the conversation or to confront that that friend that we have had to be able to share what really is going on internally that we could say something, something doesn't feel right anymore.
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There's something, there's something out of balance, or there's there's something that feels a little heavy or hard in our relationship that wasn't present before.
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Can we talk about what that might be?
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Sure.
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Or there's something that feels one-sided in this relationship, and then you get to hear what they have to say, and maybe you realize you might be able to realize that they are contributing more than they than you realize, or you've taken something for granted.
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Or maybe they will step up and and contribute more to the you know to the relationship.
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So right.
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Which is hard because we we do pour a lot into relationships and I on both on both sides.
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I don't think anybody goes into a relationship being like, I'm gonna take as much as I can out.
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No, they don't mean to, no, they don't mean to do that.
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And so both both people I think are trying to give what they think they either need or what the other person needs or expects from them.
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And so in that there is this sense of maybe unspoken or missed expectation that comes into play.
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And so when we kind of travel down that pathway, do you think that people actually know what they expect from others?
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Or do you do we just expect people to know things?
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I think that we know what needs we want to have met, but I don't think we're clear on what what we actually expect from the other person to meet those needs.
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Right?
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We don't know how to it's practically lived out.
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We might think to ourselves, I want somebody to um, I want to feel less lonely, so I want a friend.
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I want somebody to show up for me or be there for me.
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But when we try to think about how does that actually play out in relationships, we don't know what we actually expect or don't know what work is required or what's really required to be able to have the kind of connection where we can call somebody up and say, I'm really having a rough week and I'm feeling lonely.
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Can you can we meet up?
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Um, you know, to form that kind of connection takes a lot of intentionality beforehand.
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Um and we don't we don't even know uh what how to have those conversations.
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We also don't know what it are we okay with people dropping by to bring us something when we're in need, you know, stopping by unexpectedly.
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I think we want those things, but we also don't like the idea of what it takes to live out those expectations.
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And so I I don't know that we know how to put concrete behaviors around our expectations and our needs.
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Does that is that clear?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I think when you were talking about we want, we know for ourselves that we are hoping to get this out of a relationship.
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So companionship, or I don't want to be lonely anymore, and I just need a friend who is going to reach out to me.
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And yet then that friend doesn't reach out to you in the ways that you expect them to, all of a sudden, there is this barrier that exists between you and that person because what might have felt easy, now there's an unmet, unspoken need that's floating out there.
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And from your perspective, as the person who needs companionship and friendship to alleviate the loneliness, when a friend does not meet you there, now all of a sudden, for whatever reason, your friend is the one who is in the wrong because they don't care enough about you.
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They should know that you're struggling and just reach out anyway.
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Um, whatever, you know, whatever that looks like.
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And so now there's this barrier that exists in the relationship, really through no fault of anybody's own.
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Because when we have those needs, especially unexpressed needs, and we put the burden of that need being met on somebody else and expect them to step in and fill that, and they don't, now we're both left with disappointment because I'm going to now relate to that person differently, and that person's gonna be like, I don't even know what I did wrong.
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Sure, sure.
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And I don't think we even realize that we uh have these expectations until they're unmet, right?
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I think we we slowly like we we when we're in a time of struggle and we're kind of getting into our heads and we're alone and we're in our thoughts, that's when we start having these things pop up for us, like they didn't do this, or they weren't there, or I'm alone, or all of those negative thoughts that kind of happen when we're alone in our struggle.
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So unmet expectations aren't even noticed in daily life when you're going through like good periods, right?
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Right.
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And so we start to struggle because something happens in our life and we're alone, and then that's when those unmet expectations start coming to surface.
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Mm-hmm.
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Where do you where do you think people's expectations come from?
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Especially in regards to what other people can do for them.
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Well, I do like we've talked about already, I think that they stem from their unmet needs.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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So usually they they are some have to do with something around getting their own needs met.
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Um, they also come from past relationship experiences.
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We have we have experiences with friends who are like really great.
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And then we think the next gal we meet is gonna be able to do the same things that she did.
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And why is this relationship looking different?
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And then we're disappointed that the they this couple doesn't want to hang out with us more or doesn't initiate or doesn't invite us over or whatever it is.
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Um, it's funny because I heard uh conversation about relationships with friends um about the DTR conversation, which is define the relationship, right?
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So like um people have the define the relationship when they're in romantic relationships.
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Yeah.
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They like sit down, talk about what they expect, what's their level of commitment.
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And I heard someone say that those conversations also need to be had when it comes to friendships.
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And uh and it's awkward.
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And I have tried it a few times.
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Um, and it's still awkward.
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It and having those conversations just feels very vulnerable.
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But it's really good because you get to outline um how often are you gonna get together?
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Yeah.
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Um, are we both committed to this relationship, even if we get upset with one another?
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Um, and so having those define the relationship conversations can help with some of those expectations, but we still all have them.
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So yeah.
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Where do you think expectations come from?
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Or do you have any other thoughts to add?
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No, I think you I think you hit it well when you talked about just unmet, not unmet needs, but perceived needs that we have that need to be filled and past experiences, all of that play and all of those things play into where do these underlying notions of relationships come from?
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You know, it's you when you're talking about like a friend who does something different than another friend.
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You know, if if you've got a friend who brings you your favorite Diet Coke every single Monday, and then all of a sudden you're for whatever reason, maybe they move away and you are now expecting your next friend to bring you a Diet Coke every single Monday.
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That expectation is unrealistic to just superimpose onto somebody else just because a previous relationship met you in that in that way.
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Also unrealistic to expect your friend to bring Diet Coke every single Monday.
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But that's that's not actually the point.
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I think the point is mostly what do we like, what do we do with?
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And I love how you talked about being able to just go into those conversations openly with a friend about what what does this actually look like?
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How much can we both give here?
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What are you what are you expecting or needing out of our time together?
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But why is it so hard to say those things out loud?
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Why is it so hard to have those conversations with people?
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I know that it's vulnerability and it takes there is this level of kind of opening ourselves up into that.
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But at its core, why do you think it's hard to express needs in a way that allows somebody to be able to meet them in more realistic ways?
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Well, I think that we are just as awkward and fear rejection rejection just as much as our middle school selves, you know, even as adults.
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And so, and maybe that's this another part of the vulnerability piece, but um I feel like we because we fear that we're out of practice and we stop trying.
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And so adults tend to keep everything very surface level.
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And so to be able to be the one that initiates taking something deeper or to a more committed level feels awkward.
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And and we're just afraid, afraid that that we're gonna look awkward and we're afraid we're gonna come across as needy or pushy or um or just like we're too demanding, or we're putting too much formality into this thing, you know.
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And so uh what are your thoughts around that?
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Well, it's interest, it's just it's interesting to me because if we were entering okay, it's been a long time since I've dated.
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So maybe it's maybe it's not as complicated as I remember it being, even though that was a long time ago.
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Um, but when we when we look at the idea of a relationship, entering into a romantic relationship with somebody, having conversations around boundaries and expectations is actually something that I encourage young people to do, because you should, you should never put the burden of expecting somebody to be your everything.
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And we've talked about this in another podcast, so I'm not gonna go into that, but putting unwarranted expectations on somebody else is very, very unhealthy for you, for them, and for the relationship as a whole.
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And we know that more realistically when it comes to romantic relationships, and yet we struggle with it in friendships.
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And I do wonder if there is more of this level of insecurity that is involved there because if I don't like you as a friend or we get in a fight, like we were talking about earlier, it's way easier to exit that relationship.
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I can just go find somebody else to go meet my need.
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Or, oh, they told me that my hair looked really pretty like three days in a row, and that made me feel really good.
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And when's the last time my friend said that?
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All she ever does is criticize my flyaways.
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You know, like that's a really stupid example, but but it matters because then it's like, oh, well, I had this need to be validated, not even validated, but um, what is that?
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What is that word when you compliment?
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To be complimented in a way that I didn't even realize I needed until somebody started doing it.
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But then to open myself up to my already friend and say, hey, it actually hurts my feelings when you criticize my flyaways.
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Sometimes I would like you to tell me that I'm having a good hair day.
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Don't lie to me, but also don't always tear me down.
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That seems like a very vulnerable and open conversation to have when it's way easier just to be like, well, she's always critical.
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And so I'm just gonna go over to this other person who just like fluffs me up a little bit.
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Those kind of honest conversations are kind of countercultural at this day and age, right?
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We just don't have them.
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Um, people stay surface level because it's safe.
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And so when you are willing to have those hard conversations with someone, it's it's very uh unlike most conversations they've had in previous relationships.
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And so it's I don't know if we're just talking about an ideal.
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I think it is ideal, but um it's it's kind of hard to put in practice.
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And I know that I've had a situation where I'm like, if I want to have them tell me when I'm upsetting them or they have expectations of me, then I have to be willing to do that when I feel hurt or have an expectation that they do something and that they're not meeting.
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So it's awkward, which is hard.
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The do you think too that just as easy as it is to leave a relationship?
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That would be if I'm unhappy with something, I can leave the relationship, and that's easy for me.
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It's more vulnerable and more scary for me to say something and risk them leaving the relationship.
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Yeah, I think that's what we're afraid of, right?
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Yeah, is that they're gonna walk out.
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Um, or it's fine if we walk out, but we don't want to be the one who's walked out on.
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Yes, for sure.
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Yeah, that's that is that's the vulnerability piece, right?
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Yeah.
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Um, I think we do we like this, feel like we're in control of things.
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And um, when we put something out there and we wait on somebody's response, we are out of control in that moment.
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And it feels very scary.
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Yeah.
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Can you think of can you think of a time where you were tempted to take the easy route in a relationship, like leaving as opposed to saying a hard thing to a friend?
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Yes.
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I have a situation that happened maybe seven years ago.
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I don't know.
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Okay.
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But um I was going through some hard things, and I kind of pulled away from a friendship, and not because of that friendship, it really didn't have anything to do with them, but I did pull away from people in general and that friendship.
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And um and I uh hurt that person, and then that person obviously was upset with me and didn't um didn't feel good about the relationship anymore and decided to start acting in a certain way toward me, and it got really awkward and uncomfortable.
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Yeah, and um and part of that I take that responsibility of like the pulling away was that was my my choice.
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Um, but then after that point, instead of navigating it and talking it through and trying to bring it to surface, I pulled away even further.
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So sure.
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Um yeah, I remember that time.
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Can you think of any examples?
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I I'm recalling a time when I actually did have the hard conversation, thinking that the friendship was strong enough to withstand the and and again, these aren't we're not talking about big, giant, broken pieces.
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These are these are everyday relationships where maybe something just builds, builds up.
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And by the time I was like, okay, we're just gonna talk about it, and we've been friends for so long, we're just it's gonna be fine.
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Like, why am I freaking out so much about this?
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And then it turned out that it wasn't fine, that my friend was not able to take, I won't even say feedback, but wasn't able to approach what I was coming with in a way that honored the the foundation of the relationship that we had and inadvertently caused her to feel as if she no longer wanted to be friends.
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And I look back over that, and I don't think I communicated unfairly.
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I Am pretty good at owning my own pieces in things that are hard.
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Sometimes I overown for myself and I will take more responsibility for things and maybe I should.
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And yet at the end of the day, it still did not result in the outcome that I had hoped for, which was a healthier and stronger relationship to be able to move, move beyond that.
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And so that's just two examples, one from you and one from me on both sides of that spectrum, which is the indicator that this is not as easy as just talk about it and fix it.
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There are so many nuances involved when it comes to relationships.
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And I think that it grew me going through that experience.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:58.480
And it's helped me to be healthier in my current relationships because I've learned I've learned how hurtful like pulling away can be.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.160
And when somebody walks away from a friendship, how painful that is.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:06.079
And so I try not to do that anymore, you know?
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:12.880
And so now I'm trying to strategize how do I face conflicts in a healthy way?
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.119
How do I continue to try to invest in people?
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:19.920
So yeah, those painful situations, um, we all have them, right?
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:20.799
We all have stories.
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:27.279
And so how do we take what we've learned from those stories and start trying to make our future relationships better?
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:27.839
Yeah.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:36.319
And I there's so much of this that is self-protective because vulnerability is hard, like we talked about.
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:43.839
And so when hard things happen, we do have this kind of innate desire to hunker down and protect ourselves.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:24:07.839
And we don't realize sometimes that when we are pushing people out in the process that it's it's hurtful to them, even though it's what we need in those moments, we just don't know how to best communicate that in those times, which makes it really challenging because then how do you still get what you need, which is the space and the quiet in order to process and feel safe?
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:08.400
Yeah.
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:13.359
And still honor their relationship and what they want to provide for you.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.759
And there's a difference between bound, you know, setting boundaries and avoiding, right?
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.319
Yeah.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:18.720
Yeah.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.400
I think that boundaries are communicated.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.920
And like I need some time to think and process.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.119
And it happens in room, we teach this in romantic relationships all the time, right?
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:29.599
Yeah.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:37.200
I would love to talk about this with you at a later time, but I need some time to really process this and think and some time to uh work through it on my own.
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:43.039
And then we'll come back together and we'll we'll revisit this versus um avoidance.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:51.759
We like where we just we withdraw and pull away and hide out and um escape the the tension of the situation.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.759
And then when we do that, we reset the cycle.
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:57.039
Yeah.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.319
To then avoid even more because now it's even more uncomfortable.
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:16.160
And if I didn't know how to approach it when it was minorly uncomfortable before, how in the world do we enter into this conversation now when there's now been repeated avoidance on both sides, too?
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:23.519
Because it's rare that you will have only one party who avoids a tense situation.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.119
No, that's true too.
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:25.519
Yeah.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:32.720
So now you've got two avoiders, both pulling out a relationship instead of talking about it.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.599
And anyway, yeah, it gets complicated.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:42.319
But I do think that so much of this boils down to, and so a large part of what we'll talk about is communication.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:55.519
That because that's what this all boils down to is how to communicate effectively with the people in our lives that that we care about, that that we that we have said and identified.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:04.160
We talked earlier in another episode about kind of dating your friend a little bit and finding that person that's that you want to be around and hang out with.
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:16.400
And so pouring time and energy into people, there it's it's worth trying to navigate and figure out okay, how can we do this really well?
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.200
And this is again, I just want to say this.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.240
There are some really unhealthy relationships out there.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:25.359
There are some very unsafe relationships out there.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.720
These are not the relationships that we are talking about right now.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:41.519
These are everyday things and conversations and friendships and circumstances that we find ourselves in with people where there's no big thing that has happened.
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.519
It's little things that maybe piled up over time that resulted in that heaviness.
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:57.759
So going back to communication, it sounds so rude when I laugh before I ask this question.
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.720
But do you think that people are actually good communicators?
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.160
If people were good communicators, I would not have a job.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:19.279
That's what I think that the root of a lot of problems that I deal with in my office as a counselor is stems from poor communication.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:20.079
Yeah.
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:20.960
Right.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.680
Um people assume things a lot.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.759
I talk a lot about is that a fact or is that an assumption?
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:30.319
You know.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.000
And assumptions just get us into trouble.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:39.279
Assumptions um are usually negative.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:56.640
Um, people people rarely know how to conceptualize like what they need and what they and then what they expect from another person, let alone are able to form the correct words to describe the thing that they are thinking about in their mind.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.119
Right.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.000
It's just like communication is just hard.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:21.279
And it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of effort, and um, it's hard to do with people you feel safe with, let alone in in everyday relationships with somebody you're just getting to know or maybe just starting to invest in, or yeah, um, communication is just it's just hard.
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:22.559
Yeah.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:32.720
There is such a high level of intentionality that comes with being a good communicator that is just hard to find.
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:50.960
I think that so many times uh the breakdown in communication, typically around the unexpressed needs or the assumptions, really is uh one of the biggest things that will disintegrate a relationship.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:56.160
Like you said, I mean that's why people come into your office so much as they do.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:05.200
And so helping people reframe communication in a very intentional way is so, so important.
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:31.920
When I look at assumptions, one of the things that comes to mind for me to how to combat assumption is to be curious, to press into the art of asking questions, to be able to investigate what it is that the other person is actually saying or doing or expecting.
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:44.559
And yet that takes a level of moving out of ourself and what we need and what we expect, and allowing the space to shift into.
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:55.519
So tell me more about what it is that you are wanting out of this, or why is it that when I did this, it made you uncomfortable?
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:59.920
Instead of, well, I never meant to make you uncomfortable.
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.599
Yeah, cool, but you did.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:02.720
Yeah, right, yeah.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:03.200
Right.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:11.839
And so that curiosity piece I think is so, so important and can help open communication pathways.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:12.319
Yeah.
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:19.680
Well, and assumptions are often the thing that people assume often is that other people see things the same way I do.
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:20.480
Yeah.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:21.119
Right.
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.480
They think that their perspective is the perspective.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:32.160
Um, and being married to a man, I realize that he thinks things very differently for me.
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.079
He sees things very differently from me, right?
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:41.440
And he by by listening to him and approaching him with that curiosity, a lot of times I can I can see things in a new light.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:50.240
I can see why he would do something a certain way or why he doesn't prioritize certain things that I think are important or or whatnot.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:57.359
And it's not just man, woman, you know, there's no it's personalities that see things differently.
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:09.759
It's upbringings, it's all of the things that go into a person's um l life and character and um that shit shift their perspective or shape their perspective.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:29.359
And so um, I think it's important that we do approach things with curiosity because people see things a lot differently than we do based on what they've experienced in the past, based on uh their values, based on their personality types.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:29.759
Yeah.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:30.240
Yeah.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:57.279
Well, I mean, we all have histories and stories that are brought to the table, which when we look at how do we how do we be somehow together, that is part of the somehow piece is the the past experiences, the the past feelings, the the stories that we that we bring together makes the togetherness complicated and challenging.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:11.759
And yet somehow when we are willing to open ourselves up to learning new skills and adapting into something that is hard, we can actually learn and grow a lot from that.
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:26.079
Do you have you ever been in a conversation that you were having with somebody where you walked away from that conversation thinking, oh, that went great, only to find out later that it did not go great.
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:27.119
Sure.
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:32.480
My family, I just recently learned of my family doesn't know that I'm joking half the time.
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:34.559
Oh, interesting.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.039
I know.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.640
We I can't remember when we uh I think it came up at Christmas.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:54.799
Like, I probably shouldn't talk about my daughter on the podcast, but um I think she was like she said something like, Well, mom, you don't have to be so direct about it, or I can't remember what she said, but I'm like, you couldn't tell I was joking, and Olivia and Jason both are like, no.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:01.599
And I'm like, oh man, then you have missed so many things I've tried to communicate over the years.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:08.319
And I'm like, wow, I need to get better at my jokes, I guess.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:19.119
But um, and I'm like thinking, so you really they probably have us assumed that I'm very grumpy a lot of times because I've made jokes about things that I from like a sarcastic perspective, you know.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.799
I'm like, oh, they're not picking up on that.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.160
So yeah, yeah.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:27.519
And so yes, I did notice that or thought of that when you when I was looking over that question.
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:35.039
I also thought people um might f struggle when I communicate when I'm in task mode.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:42.079
I'm always like uh saying that I struggle to be either I'm either in task mode or I'm in people mode.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:43.680
It's hard to be in both at the same time.
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:48.720
So when I'm in task mode, I can get really direct, especially if I'm like getting tired.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:53.440
Um something might come across as I don't know, grumpy or rude.
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:54.319
I don't know.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:57.359
And um I'm usually trying my best.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:05.599
I have a good heart most of the time, but yeah, I don't know that it's always communicated well when I'm tired and like focused on getting something done.
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:06.240
Sure.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:14.880
So anyway, that's those are the two thoughts I had around conversations that I feel unheard in.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.480
Um how about you?
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:22.079
It's funny that you mentioned that they don't think you're joking when you are trying to joke.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.599
I don't think that my family takes me seriously enough.
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.880
Sometimes and maybe laugh too much.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:32.639
I don't laugh out loud.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:42.880
But I there recently there have been a there was a time when um we've, you know, we've gone through some challenges with our our kids, as all families do.
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:53.519
And there was a time recently when I was trying to trying to be very clear in my discipline for the situation that we were facing with one of my boys.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:02.159
And I finally looked at him and I I literally asked, I said, are you even taking me seriously right now?
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.599
And he kind of chuckled a little bit and was like, not really.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.719
And I said, is it because I haven't been mean enough?
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:18.960
Like, have I not been clear enough in what the consequences would be if the behavior continues?
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:24.800
And in his mind, and this this even goes back to that like unmet expectation or need.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:32.559
In his mind, if I were mad or serious enough, then I would treat him more poorly than I was.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:53.599
And so my ability to discipline and have consequences for him and then still be able to be in a light-hearted relationship when it's warranted, threw him off because he felt like I would, I should be being meaner to him if I was serious about what it was that we were talking about.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:54.239
Interesting.
00:35:54.480 --> 00:36:02.559
So that was an interesting, interesting, dynamic conversation there, where it was actually literally the the opposite of yours.
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:23.840
I definitely think that there have been times over the years, especially before I learned more about communication and how people learn and communicate, uh, more about conflict resolution and conflict management and uh just all of the like how trauma and mental health plays a part into the way that we process and function.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:34.960
Before I learned a lot about all of those types of things, there are probably so many times where I walked away from from conversations everything, you know, everything's fine, everything's wonderful, everything's crawly.
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.239
Only to turn around and find out that it's that it's not.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:46.960
One of the things I think that happens the most when it is like that is when I shift into fix it mode.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:47.920
Oh, sure.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:37:04.000
Where instead of being there and being present and listening and being curious, I will just step into the well, let's just, let's just get this fixed.
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:11.280
And that I think is when I feel like the really or the conversation went really well because obviously we we got stuff done.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:14.159
We problem solved.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:20.559
You got like a a five-point step system that you just gotta go do.
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:22.880
And you know, yep.
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:28.800
And so I think that that that makes sense to me can still be easy to slide into.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.159
Going into yeah, for sure.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.239
That's easy to have happen for sure.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:34.800
Yeah.
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:55.119
Which is interesting because it makes me wonder if we are actually more can not conditioned, that's probably the wrong word, the more apt to listen to fix things than we are just to listen and absorb and carry with people.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:03.760
Yeah, I remember when Olivia and I were on a walk, I think she was in high school, and she just she said it to me.
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.239
She goes, Mom, I just need you to listen.
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:13.760
And it's really hard, and I I've heard this theme over the years, as I've talked to a lot of teenagers, that their parents don't listen.
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.360
They try to fix things, so they stop talking, and I didn't want Olivia to stop talking to me.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:26.559
And so I worked really hard to um stop trying to fix her problems and just be there and listen to her and walk with her.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:31.679
And um, and as a parent, I think we get uncomfortable with our kids' pain.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:41.119
Yeah, you know, and so we want to fix it so that we feel better without re realizing that our fix it is not actually making them feel better.
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:50.880
And so um, I I remember that conversation vividly vividly, and I have really tried to continue to put that in practice.
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:52.639
Yeah, that hit.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.960
I do that even with friends now when they're going through a hard time.
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:02.320
I will say, do you want me just to listen and support you?
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:05.920
Or do you want me to jump in with you?
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.719
Do you want me to give suggestions?
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.119
Like what almost what hat do you want me to wear right now?
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:19.199
I think my sisters can get frustrated with me, although they do tend to come to me when they want my advice.
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:32.880
Uh, but I'm definitely it's easy for me to flow into advice mode with my sisters, and so I have to be really careful, even with them, to ask, okay, what is it that you're needing from me and wanting from me in this conversation?
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:43.119
So that I can give you what you need or want, as long as it doesn't, you know, mean that I'm stepping outside of my own value or belief system.
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:43.920
Sure.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:45.199
Yeah.
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:46.559
That totally makes sense.
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:47.760
That's fascinating.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:40:15.920
And when I think of conversations where we enter into to, especially as communicators or problem solving or whatever that looks like, one of the things that I keep in mind a lot and I try to walk with people through is we're often trying to solve different problems in the same conversation when we're not like clear and curious.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:24.719
That we might be trying to solve different things, and we can't understand why the other person isn't listening to us because we're not in the same place.
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:35.360
And so yeah, I go back again to that curiosity piece is is be curious, ask good questions of the person that you are communicating with.
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:36.719
Yeah, that's important.
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:37.920
It really is.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:46.880
Erica, what would you say to someone who is navigating or thinking of a hard relationship that they're in right now?
00:40:47.280 --> 00:41:00.079
One of the things that Jason and I have lived by, philosophies we've lived by in ministry and life for a lot of years, has been to assume the best of people.
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:08.079
Um, assume that they are trying their best, that they're giving their best, and um, that they mean the best.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:15.440
And when we assume the best of someone, uh, it just shapes how we view them.
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.079
It gives us understanding for them.
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:36.559
It helps us to approach them in a different way than if we were assuming the worst or assuming that they meant to do something, or the assuming that they were being whatever it is, lazy or not trying, or um, so assuming the best, right?
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:41.519
I would in relationships that are hard, I would start with noticing it.
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.119
I would notice your thoughts and feelings around the relationship.
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.639
I would notice whether it's worth your time and energy.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:51.199
Are you is there some kind of benefit from it?
00:41:51.840 --> 00:42:02.079
Um notice if you're making those assumptions and think, can this relationship be saved with a DTR conversation?
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:10.159
You know, can if you sat down and like hash this out and talked about our expectations and our needs in the relationship, can it be salvaged?
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:18.559
And if not, how can you communicate that to the person that um that maybe you need to, you know, create more distance with?
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:21.679
So I love that.
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:28.480
Do you have any other suggestions for navigating hard conversations or hard relationships?
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.000
How much more time do we have?
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:41.199
I know you guys are getting like little sound bits from us of things that we literally can spend hours and hours talking, talking people through.
00:42:41.440 --> 00:43:02.000
I think one of the things that I have really worked hard on is similar, I think, to your believing the best about somebody or not assuming the worst about somebody is being very careful about the story we tell ourselves in regards to that person or the situation or the circumstance that we find ourselves in.
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:09.920
And so it could not even be about the person, it could be the story we're telling ourselves in is this this is beyond repair.
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:15.119
And anything I say at this point isn't going to matter because they're not going to listen.
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:30.800
Well, now we're telling ourselves a story about a perceived outcome, and we are also not thinking the best of the person that we, for all intents and purposes, have loved and and poured part of ourselves into as far as a friendship and a relationship goes.
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:41.760
And so I think not telling ourselves a story is important, or at least being willing to ask ourselves, what story am I telling myself about this?
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.519
What in this is true?
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:45.519
What in this is not true?
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:58.400
Is this a pattern of behavior or a pattern of unmet needs and unmet expectations that is present, or is it a one time issue that is popping up?
00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:58.960
Yes.
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:06.639
Have I talked To this person about the way that I am feeling thinking or behaving.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.800
Or have I not?
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:23.679
And now what could have been solved in one conversation may result in a harder, harder attempt at reconciling the relationship back to a closer normal.
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.519
And those are really, those are really hard things.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:38.239
And when you are in the hard relationship currently, it's asking a lot to be willing to step into those, those, those places.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:44.559
And so I do want to acknowledge and recognize for those who are listening who are in a hard relationship.
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.320
Yeah, you are going through some really hard things.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:54.480
And maybe the person that you are struggling with is the person that you would typically talk to about how to navigate this with somebody else.
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:08.559
And so I would really encourage you to reach out, reach out to another friend, reach out to somebody that is trustworthy, who has a good track record of good and clear communications and healthy relationships, and say, hey, what are some ways that I can navigate this?
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:11.119
Could you give me, give me some guidance in this?
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:24.000
I love how you said, is it just a one-time situation that can be talked through, or is it a pattern of behavior that is not going to be salvageable, at least at this time?
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:34.239
And it's really hard for us because but the re the reality of it is that not all friendships and not all relationships are forever friendships and relationships, right?
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:34.880
I know.
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.239
And that's really, really hard.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:44.719
Um, sometimes it's seasonal, sometimes it is um there's irreconcilable how do you say that word?
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:51.039
Irreconcilable differences that make it really hard to move past.
00:45:51.199 --> 00:46:00.639
And so um one of the podcasts that I really like to listen to talked about friendship breakups and how they can be just as painful as a divorce at times.
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:06.159
And so yeah, and I've had that happen in my life where I've had a breakup with a friend that was very, very painful.
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:13.920
And so um it's it's important to recognize that um sometimes we need extra support.
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:21.039
We have to find new can connections or new supports to help us through that time of loss and change.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.920
Yeah.
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.119
And navigating that is really hard when you are trying to do it alone.
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:27.840
Yeah.
00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:29.519
Truly it is.
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:39.440
And so I'm I'm so thankful that I have people in my life that I can turn to and go to when I am struggling in in a relationship area.
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:45.119
And sometimes it's even for myself where I ask, like, Am I am I off base here?
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.480
Am I reading something into this that isn't present?
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.280
Am I bringing too much of my own story?
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:54.480
Is my story leaking into this situation?
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:55.039
You know?
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:08.800
And so I have people in my life who I can go to and ask those questions even about myself, so that I can make sure that if I need to approach that conversation, I'm doing it from the most healthiest standpoint that I can do.
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:09.679
Yeah.
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:12.559
Which is not easy.
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:14.079
No, it's not.
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:16.239
Not it's not easy.
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:30.400
What do you think what do you think our churches would look like if we practiced healthier communication and these types of relational skills?
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:48.239
I think they would look like the thing that we're trying to describe through this podcast, you know, that we would we would be able to stick together for longer periods of time, that we wouldn't let things get in the way.
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:54.480
Miscommunic communications or assumptions get in the way of uh the relationship and connections.
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:57.760
We would have a lot more conversations.
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:14.960
Um, we get to like let Jesus and the Holy Spirit do some reconciling between us more often because we would be bringing up problems and having conversations about them and asking for forgiveness and forgiving others.
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:28.400
And um I think that we would we would feel like we could come to people more easily because we would be in practice of doing that.
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:29.280
Yeah.
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:38.000
And I think again, I go back to if you let small things pile up, they become the really big things, which are much, much harder to work through.
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:58.320
And so if we as a church family, church body created the space to be able to address issues before they became really big ones, we would be cultivating a much safer and healthier like relationship dynamic just between people.
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:04.159
And some things, like we said, some things they're not gonna go back to the way that they always were, or they're not gonna be fully reconcilable.
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:10.719
And we can do all the work of forgiveness and uh extending grace where we can and all of the right things.
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:16.559
We can do all of the right things, it but it still takes both parties doing all of the right things as well.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:23.280
And so there will still be times, you know, ideally we're not gonna see this type of perfection.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:37.760
This side of heaven, this side of heaven, though, which is unfortunate, and also gives us so many opportunities to to practice living into the relational wholeness that I truly do believe the Lord wants for us.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:51.599
He he created us for it, and part of part of being reconciled to him means that we get to live and function in healthier ways as individuals and communities.
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.960
It's what he's prescribed for his church, mm-hmm.
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:55.840
Right?
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:57.519
Oh, it's what he wants.
00:49:57.760 --> 00:49:58.400
Yeah.
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:05.840
But again, on this side of heaven, we may not see it, but we can work, we can strive for it and keep trying.
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:06.480
We can.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:07.599
We can.
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:15.280
And I think of like I think of the fact that you pour into this young adult population here, and I'm heavily involved with our youth.
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:23.119
And there's reasons why, even though I am in an in adult ministries, I will always pour into the younger generations.
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:35.360
And I do believe it is because when we can learn some of these things earlier, the baggage that we then drag into our adult relationships hopefully will be a little bit lighter.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:35.679
Yeah.
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:42.480
Not non-existent, because we're always going to have our own stories and our own histories and our own pasts and our own experiences that we bring into things.
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:50.800
But also hopefully we're able to give and equip with tools and tricks and tips along the way.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:54.400
Maybe save them a little of the pain we've had to endure.
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:55.519
Yeah, maybe.
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:56.400
Yeah.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:58.320
Maybe we'll see.
00:50:59.199 --> 00:50:59.760
All right.
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.239
Well, that's enough of the heaviness for this episode.
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:11.440
We are gonna close out with our somehow together podcast question of the day.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:12.960
It's a mouthful.
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:23.599
And our question today that we are going to end on is what is your most useless talent?
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:24.800
All right.
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.000
Well, goodness.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:39.760
I think that in this world of technology and typing, my useless talent is that I have really neat penmanship and cursive writing.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.480
I won an award in sixth grade for it.
00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:43.599
I know.
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:45.199
I guess.
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:53.679
And um, I do I have lost a lot of my skills because I've stopped typing or writing as much, you know, because I type all the time.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.840
But I have a really, really nice penmanship when I try.
00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:58.800
So nice.
00:51:58.960 --> 00:51:59.360
How about you?
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:01.360
What's one of your useless skills?
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:03.440
You do not have any.
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:08.000
I can kind of talk like Donald Duck.
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:10.320
Because I'm gonna try and go without blowing out the mic.
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:11.519
Okay, let's hear it.
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:25.840
It gets me no credit anywhere other than laughter, and definitely does not earn myself friendship credit.
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:26.800
That's funny.
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.239
On any you learn bonus points from me.
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:31.199
So there we go.
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:32.079
Yes.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.000
Well, thank you guys so much for listening to today.
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:45.920
And I just want to encourage you as we wrap up, maybe it's not about having perfect relationships, but more honest ones.
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:49.840
And somehow we will figure this all out together.
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:53.360
Until next time, we will chat with you later.
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:56.719
Thanks for spending time with us today.
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:02.079
If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone you want to help feel a little less alone.
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:07.760
And as you go into your week, ask yourself where in my life do I need togetherness right now?
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:11.599
And until next time, we are somehow together.
00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:07.200
Welcome to the Somehow Together podcast, where we explore faith, connection, and everything that holds us together.
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:08.320
I'm Miranda.
00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:09.679
And I'm Erica.
00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:11.679
You know, life is messy.
00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:13.519
Relationships are messy.
00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:15.519
But we weren't meant to do life alone.
00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:18.640
And God is still at work in the middle of it all.
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:23.359
So we're still showing up somehow together.
00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:35.280
Welcome to today's episode of Somehow Together.
00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:42.240
My name is Miranda, and we are going to be talking about something that I think we've all felt at some point.
00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:52.479
Have you ever had a relationship where you've thought that nothing is technically wrong, but for some reason it just feels harder than it should?
00:00:53.039 --> 00:01:00.560
Maybe, maybe you're overthinking things or something just feels off or you're frustrated, but you can't fully explain why.
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:06.159
And it seems like the other person has no idea that anything is even wrong.
00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:17.920
It's when we say things like, I think that this is confusing, or what is happening in this relationship, but there's nothing really big to point to.
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:23.120
It's not dramatic or broken, it just feels heavier than expected.
00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:31.519
And so today we're going to be talking about why relationships feel harder or heavier than they should and what might be going on underneath.
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:38.719
How things like expectations, communications, and unspoken needs play into the relationships that we find ourselves in.
00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:43.599
So, Erica, as we start today's episode, do you feel like this is true?
00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:47.840
Like relationships can feel heavier than they should sometimes?
00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.040
I definitely think that can happen at times.
00:01:51.840 --> 00:02:08.080
Um, when I was thinking through these questions in advance, the situations that kept popping into my mind were the ones, the relationships that feel the most heavy are the ones that I feel like I'm carrying the responsibility of the relationship.
00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:28.479
Doesn't mean that the other person's doing anything wrong necessarily, but it feels like I'm the one carrying the burden of the connection or the um, or maybe they're in a time of trial and hardship, and I'm feeling like I'm carrying them through that for a really long time.
00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.560
And I think for seasons, that's fine.
00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:36.879
We all have that happen in our lives, and for seasons, that's that sometimes we need to rely on other people, which is fine.
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:52.159
But when that lasts too long, or the the person won't get help, or it feels like they're stuck, then it feels like um the relationship gets very, very heavy at that point.
00:02:52.560 --> 00:03:00.560
Um, I I don't know that we make it in relationships very long when they are heavy or uncomfortable.
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:08.080
I was thinking through like who do we stick it out very much when relationships are hard and uncomfortable?
00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:09.439
And I don't know that we do.
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:14.319
I think we tend to drop people, um, even if it's subtly.
00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:14.719
Yeah.
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:37.919
Um, unless we have some kind of like long, long-term commitment, you know, to them, like our spouses or our kids, um, or our family members, you know, extended family members, or um we're trapped in like a work situation with somebody, and um we have to kind of uproot our life situation to get out of that relationship.
00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:42.800
Those commitments for force us sometimes to keep navigating uncomfortable relationships.
00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:54.560
But I think a lot of times with friends, we opt out and we just kind of back away from the connection, even if it's gradually um when they feel heavy or like too much.
00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:13.599
Um, you know, I have to carry a lot of heaviness with work or a discomfort with work situations or sometimes with church situations, but I can set a certain amount of emotional boundary with in those situations that allow me to continue doing my job without burning out, right?
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:14.080
Yeah.
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.560
But I feel like when you get into personal relationships or friendships, it's a whole nother beast.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.199
Yeah.
00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:40.560
And that carrying of each other's burdens has to be a balancing act and it has to be a fair balance and a and a give and take, so that you're not the one that's always pouring out and giving you need something back, or it's not gonna be worth the effort, which sounds kind of selfish coming out of my mouth, but it is true, and I think boundaries are important.
00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:43.199
So, anyway, what are what are your thoughts around it?
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:48.240
Yeah, the the reality with relationships, and we're just diving straight in.
00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:59.519
Like there was no lightness or fluffy coming into this conversation because relationships are that important that sometimes we get to skip the fluff and just dive, dive into it.
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.959
And the reality is that relationships do take work.
00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:09.439
They take work uh both both sides, are needing to pour into each other.
00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:22.639
And I think when we look at sometimes what makes relationships kind of unbalanced or uneven, sometimes it's not even about what is happening.
00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:26.000
It's more about what's not being said.
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:35.199
And so I thought about as you were talking about how we just will slightly pull back and step out of relationships instead of pressing into.
00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:52.000
And I wonder how much of that is fear around bringing up the conversation or to confront that that friend that we have had to be able to share what really is going on internally that we could say something, something doesn't feel right anymore.
00:05:52.240 --> 00:06:00.160
There's something, there's something out of balance, or there's there's something that feels a little heavy or hard in our relationship that wasn't present before.
00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.560
Can we talk about what that might be?
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:03.519
Sure.
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:16.879
Or there's something that feels one-sided in this relationship, and then you get to hear what they have to say, and maybe you realize you might be able to realize that they are contributing more than they than you realize, or you've taken something for granted.
00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:24.319
Or maybe they will step up and and contribute more to the you know to the relationship.
00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:25.439
So right.
00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:33.600
Which is hard because we we do pour a lot into relationships and I on both on both sides.
00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:39.360
I don't think anybody goes into a relationship being like, I'm gonna take as much as I can out.
00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.879
No, they don't mean to, no, they don't mean to do that.
00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:51.519
And so both both people I think are trying to give what they think they either need or what the other person needs or expects from them.
00:06:51.680 --> 00:07:00.959
And so in that there is this sense of maybe unspoken or missed expectation that comes into play.
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:13.920
And so when we kind of travel down that pathway, do you think that people actually know what they expect from others?
00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.519
Or do you do we just expect people to know things?
00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:29.519
I think that we know what needs we want to have met, but I don't think we're clear on what what we actually expect from the other person to meet those needs.
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:30.240
Right?
00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:33.279
We don't know how to it's practically lived out.
00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:40.399
We might think to ourselves, I want somebody to um, I want to feel less lonely, so I want a friend.
00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.519
I want somebody to show up for me or be there for me.
00:07:43.759 --> 00:08:00.160
But when we try to think about how does that actually play out in relationships, we don't know what we actually expect or don't know what work is required or what's really required to be able to have the kind of connection where we can call somebody up and say, I'm really having a rough week and I'm feeling lonely.
00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.000
Can you can we meet up?
00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:08.639
Um, you know, to form that kind of connection takes a lot of intentionality beforehand.
00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:14.000
Um and we don't we don't even know uh what how to have those conversations.
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:22.720
We also don't know what it are we okay with people dropping by to bring us something when we're in need, you know, stopping by unexpectedly.
00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:29.279
I think we want those things, but we also don't like the idea of what it takes to live out those expectations.
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:37.440
And so I I don't know that we know how to put concrete behaviors around our expectations and our needs.
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:38.960
Does that is that clear?
00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:39.919
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:48.159
I think when you were talking about we want, we know for ourselves that we are hoping to get this out of a relationship.
00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:56.159
So companionship, or I don't want to be lonely anymore, and I just need a friend who is going to reach out to me.
00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:16.240
And yet then that friend doesn't reach out to you in the ways that you expect them to, all of a sudden, there is this barrier that exists between you and that person because what might have felt easy, now there's an unmet, unspoken need that's floating out there.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:32.879
And from your perspective, as the person who needs companionship and friendship to alleviate the loneliness, when a friend does not meet you there, now all of a sudden, for whatever reason, your friend is the one who is in the wrong because they don't care enough about you.
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.200
They should know that you're struggling and just reach out anyway.
00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:40.320
Um, whatever, you know, whatever that looks like.
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:46.000
And so now there's this barrier that exists in the relationship, really through no fault of anybody's own.
00:09:46.159 --> 00:10:09.600
Because when we have those needs, especially unexpressed needs, and we put the burden of that need being met on somebody else and expect them to step in and fill that, and they don't, now we're both left with disappointment because I'm going to now relate to that person differently, and that person's gonna be like, I don't even know what I did wrong.
00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:11.120
Sure, sure.
00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:19.440
And I don't think we even realize that we uh have these expectations until they're unmet, right?
00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:44.480
I think we we slowly like we we when we're in a time of struggle and we're kind of getting into our heads and we're alone and we're in our thoughts, that's when we start having these things pop up for us, like they didn't do this, or they weren't there, or I'm alone, or all of those negative thoughts that kind of happen when we're alone in our struggle.
00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:51.200
So unmet expectations aren't even noticed in daily life when you're going through like good periods, right?
00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:51.840
Right.
00:10:52.159 --> 00:11:01.679
And so we start to struggle because something happens in our life and we're alone, and then that's when those unmet expectations start coming to surface.
00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:02.320
Mm-hmm.
00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.279
Where do you where do you think people's expectations come from?
00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:12.559
Especially in regards to what other people can do for them.
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:17.919
Well, I do like we've talked about already, I think that they stem from their unmet needs.
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:18.159
Yeah.
00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:18.559
Right.
00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.879
So usually they they are some have to do with something around getting their own needs met.
00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:28.080
Um, they also come from past relationship experiences.
00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:32.720
We have we have experiences with friends who are like really great.
00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:38.639
And then we think the next gal we meet is gonna be able to do the same things that she did.
00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.519
And why is this relationship looking different?
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:50.240
And then we're disappointed that the they this couple doesn't want to hang out with us more or doesn't initiate or doesn't invite us over or whatever it is.
00:11:50.480 --> 00:12:04.559
Um, it's funny because I heard uh conversation about relationships with friends um about the DTR conversation, which is define the relationship, right?
00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:10.720
So like um people have the define the relationship when they're in romantic relationships.
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:11.120
Yeah.
00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.399
They like sit down, talk about what they expect, what's their level of commitment.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:22.639
And I heard someone say that those conversations also need to be had when it comes to friendships.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:25.440
And uh and it's awkward.
00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:27.679
And I have tried it a few times.
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.600
Um, and it's still awkward.
00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:32.879
It and having those conversations just feels very vulnerable.
00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:37.279
But it's really good because you get to outline um how often are you gonna get together?
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:37.600
Yeah.
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:42.399
Um, are we both committed to this relationship, even if we get upset with one another?
00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:52.799
Um, and so having those define the relationship conversations can help with some of those expectations, but we still all have them.
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:53.919
So yeah.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.000
Where do you think expectations come from?
00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:57.759
Or do you have any other thoughts to add?
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:18.799
No, I think you I think you hit it well when you talked about just unmet, not unmet needs, but perceived needs that we have that need to be filled and past experiences, all of that play and all of those things play into where do these underlying notions of relationships come from?
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:25.120
You know, it's you when you're talking about like a friend who does something different than another friend.
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:42.320
You know, if if you've got a friend who brings you your favorite Diet Coke every single Monday, and then all of a sudden you're for whatever reason, maybe they move away and you are now expecting your next friend to bring you a Diet Coke every single Monday.
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:53.919
That expectation is unrealistic to just superimpose onto somebody else just because a previous relationship met you in that in that way.
00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.559
Also unrealistic to expect your friend to bring Diet Coke every single Monday.
00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.240
But that's that's not actually the point.
00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:05.039
I think the point is mostly what do we like, what do we do with?
00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:14.159
And I love how you talked about being able to just go into those conversations openly with a friend about what what does this actually look like?
00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:15.600
How much can we both give here?
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.759
What are you what are you expecting or needing out of our time together?
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.759
But why is it so hard to say those things out loud?
00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:27.759
Why is it so hard to have those conversations with people?
00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:35.440
I know that it's vulnerability and it takes there is this level of kind of opening ourselves up into that.
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:47.120
But at its core, why do you think it's hard to express needs in a way that allows somebody to be able to meet them in more realistic ways?
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:58.240
Well, I think that we are just as awkward and fear rejection rejection just as much as our middle school selves, you know, even as adults.
00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:10.000
And so, and maybe that's this another part of the vulnerability piece, but um I feel like we because we fear that we're out of practice and we stop trying.
00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:14.159
And so adults tend to keep everything very surface level.
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:22.240
And so to be able to be the one that initiates taking something deeper or to a more committed level feels awkward.
00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:39.759
And and we're just afraid, afraid that that we're gonna look awkward and we're afraid we're gonna come across as needy or pushy or um or just like we're too demanding, or we're putting too much formality into this thing, you know.
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.399
And so uh what are your thoughts around that?
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:49.279
Well, it's interest, it's just it's interesting to me because if we were entering okay, it's been a long time since I've dated.
00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:56.000
So maybe it's maybe it's not as complicated as I remember it being, even though that was a long time ago.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:21.360
Um, but when we when we look at the idea of a relationship, entering into a romantic relationship with somebody, having conversations around boundaries and expectations is actually something that I encourage young people to do, because you should, you should never put the burden of expecting somebody to be your everything.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:31.360
And we've talked about this in another podcast, so I'm not gonna go into that, but putting unwarranted expectations on somebody else is very, very unhealthy for you, for them, and for the relationship as a whole.
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:38.639
And we know that more realistically when it comes to romantic relationships, and yet we struggle with it in friendships.
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:51.360
And I do wonder if there is more of this level of insecurity that is involved there because if I don't like you as a friend or we get in a fight, like we were talking about earlier, it's way easier to exit that relationship.
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.600
I can just go find somebody else to go meet my need.
00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:57.919
Or, oh, they told me that my hair looked really pretty like three days in a row, and that made me feel really good.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.600
And when's the last time my friend said that?
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.240
All she ever does is criticize my flyaways.
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:15.200
You know, like that's a really stupid example, but but it matters because then it's like, oh, well, I had this need to be validated, not even validated, but um, what is that?
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:16.960
What is that word when you compliment?
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:23.359
To be complimented in a way that I didn't even realize I needed until somebody started doing it.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:32.400
But then to open myself up to my already friend and say, hey, it actually hurts my feelings when you criticize my flyaways.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.359
Sometimes I would like you to tell me that I'm having a good hair day.
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.640
Don't lie to me, but also don't always tear me down.
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:48.000
That seems like a very vulnerable and open conversation to have when it's way easier just to be like, well, she's always critical.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.319
And so I'm just gonna go over to this other person who just like fluffs me up a little bit.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.720
Those kind of honest conversations are kind of countercultural at this day and age, right?
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:58.640
We just don't have them.
00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.079
Um, people stay surface level because it's safe.
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:15.519
And so when you are willing to have those hard conversations with someone, it's it's very uh unlike most conversations they've had in previous relationships.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.799
And so it's I don't know if we're just talking about an ideal.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.960
I think it is ideal, but um it's it's kind of hard to put in practice.
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:40.400
And I know that I've had a situation where I'm like, if I want to have them tell me when I'm upsetting them or they have expectations of me, then I have to be willing to do that when I feel hurt or have an expectation that they do something and that they're not meeting.
00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.359
So it's awkward, which is hard.
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:51.359
The do you think too that just as easy as it is to leave a relationship?
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:57.680
That would be if I'm unhappy with something, I can leave the relationship, and that's easy for me.
00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:04.559
It's more vulnerable and more scary for me to say something and risk them leaving the relationship.
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.880
Yeah, I think that's what we're afraid of, right?
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:09.039
Yeah, is that they're gonna walk out.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:14.240
Um, or it's fine if we walk out, but we don't want to be the one who's walked out on.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.160
Yes, for sure.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.119
Yeah, that's that is that's the vulnerability piece, right?
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:21.599
Yeah.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.519
Um, I think we do we like this, feel like we're in control of things.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:32.000
And um, when we put something out there and we wait on somebody's response, we are out of control in that moment.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.480
And it feels very scary.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:35.279
Yeah.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:48.400
Can you think of can you think of a time where you were tempted to take the easy route in a relationship, like leaving as opposed to saying a hard thing to a friend?
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:49.440
Yes.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:54.160
I have a situation that happened maybe seven years ago.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:54.720
I don't know.
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:55.279
Okay.
00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:11.440
But um I was going through some hard things, and I kind of pulled away from a friendship, and not because of that friendship, it really didn't have anything to do with them, but I did pull away from people in general and that friendship.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:30.240
And um and I uh hurt that person, and then that person obviously was upset with me and didn't um didn't feel good about the relationship anymore and decided to start acting in a certain way toward me, and it got really awkward and uncomfortable.
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:39.279
Yeah, and um and part of that I take that responsibility of like the pulling away was that was my my choice.
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:50.319
Um, but then after that point, instead of navigating it and talking it through and trying to bring it to surface, I pulled away even further.
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:51.359
So sure.
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.519
Um yeah, I remember that time.
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.519
Can you think of any examples?
00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:13.200
I I'm recalling a time when I actually did have the hard conversation, thinking that the friendship was strong enough to withstand the and and again, these aren't we're not talking about big, giant, broken pieces.
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:18.079
These are these are everyday relationships where maybe something just builds, builds up.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:27.359
And by the time I was like, okay, we're just gonna talk about it, and we've been friends for so long, we're just it's gonna be fine.
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.440
Like, why am I freaking out so much about this?
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:53.920
And then it turned out that it wasn't fine, that my friend was not able to take, I won't even say feedback, but wasn't able to approach what I was coming with in a way that honored the the foundation of the relationship that we had and inadvertently caused her to feel as if she no longer wanted to be friends.
00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:59.119
And I look back over that, and I don't think I communicated unfairly.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:05.920
I Am pretty good at owning my own pieces in things that are hard.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:12.640
Sometimes I overown for myself and I will take more responsibility for things and maybe I should.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:26.160
And yet at the end of the day, it still did not result in the outcome that I had hoped for, which was a healthier and stronger relationship to be able to move, move beyond that.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:38.240
And so that's just two examples, one from you and one from me on both sides of that spectrum, which is the indicator that this is not as easy as just talk about it and fix it.
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.559
There are so many nuances involved when it comes to relationships.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:48.319
And I think that it grew me going through that experience.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:58.480
And it's helped me to be healthier in my current relationships because I've learned I've learned how hurtful like pulling away can be.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.160
And when somebody walks away from a friendship, how painful that is.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:06.079
And so I try not to do that anymore, you know?
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:12.880
And so now I'm trying to strategize how do I face conflicts in a healthy way?
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.119
How do I continue to try to invest in people?
00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:19.920
So yeah, those painful situations, um, we all have them, right?
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:20.799
We all have stories.
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:27.279
And so how do we take what we've learned from those stories and start trying to make our future relationships better?
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:27.839
Yeah.
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:36.319
And I there's so much of this that is self-protective because vulnerability is hard, like we talked about.
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:43.839
And so when hard things happen, we do have this kind of innate desire to hunker down and protect ourselves.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:24:07.839
And we don't realize sometimes that when we are pushing people out in the process that it's it's hurtful to them, even though it's what we need in those moments, we just don't know how to best communicate that in those times, which makes it really challenging because then how do you still get what you need, which is the space and the quiet in order to process and feel safe?
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:08.400
Yeah.
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:13.359
And still honor their relationship and what they want to provide for you.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.759
And there's a difference between bound, you know, setting boundaries and avoiding, right?
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.319
Yeah.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:18.720
Yeah.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.400
I think that boundaries are communicated.
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.920
And like I need some time to think and process.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.119
And it happens in room, we teach this in romantic relationships all the time, right?
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:29.599
Yeah.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:37.200
I would love to talk about this with you at a later time, but I need some time to really process this and think and some time to uh work through it on my own.
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:43.039
And then we'll come back together and we'll we'll revisit this versus um avoidance.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:51.759
We like where we just we withdraw and pull away and hide out and um escape the the tension of the situation.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.759
And then when we do that, we reset the cycle.
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:57.039
Yeah.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.319
To then avoid even more because now it's even more uncomfortable.
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:16.160
And if I didn't know how to approach it when it was minorly uncomfortable before, how in the world do we enter into this conversation now when there's now been repeated avoidance on both sides, too?
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:23.519
Because it's rare that you will have only one party who avoids a tense situation.
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.119
No, that's true too.
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:25.519
Yeah.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:32.720
So now you've got two avoiders, both pulling out a relationship instead of talking about it.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.599
And anyway, yeah, it gets complicated.
00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:42.319
But I do think that so much of this boils down to, and so a large part of what we'll talk about is communication.
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:55.519
That because that's what this all boils down to is how to communicate effectively with the people in our lives that that we care about, that that we that we have said and identified.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:04.160
We talked earlier in another episode about kind of dating your friend a little bit and finding that person that's that you want to be around and hang out with.
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:16.400
And so pouring time and energy into people, there it's it's worth trying to navigate and figure out okay, how can we do this really well?
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.200
And this is again, I just want to say this.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.240
There are some really unhealthy relationships out there.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:25.359
There are some very unsafe relationships out there.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.720
These are not the relationships that we are talking about right now.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:41.519
These are everyday things and conversations and friendships and circumstances that we find ourselves in with people where there's no big thing that has happened.
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.519
It's little things that maybe piled up over time that resulted in that heaviness.
00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:57.759
So going back to communication, it sounds so rude when I laugh before I ask this question.
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.720
But do you think that people are actually good communicators?
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.160
If people were good communicators, I would not have a job.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:19.279
That's what I think that the root of a lot of problems that I deal with in my office as a counselor is stems from poor communication.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:20.079
Yeah.
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:20.960
Right.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:25.680
Um people assume things a lot.
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.759
I talk a lot about is that a fact or is that an assumption?
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:30.319
You know.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:34.000
And assumptions just get us into trouble.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:39.279
Assumptions um are usually negative.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:56.640
Um, people people rarely know how to conceptualize like what they need and what they and then what they expect from another person, let alone are able to form the correct words to describe the thing that they are thinking about in their mind.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.119
Right.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:00.000
It's just like communication is just hard.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:21.279
And it takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of effort, and um, it's hard to do with people you feel safe with, let alone in in everyday relationships with somebody you're just getting to know or maybe just starting to invest in, or yeah, um, communication is just it's just hard.
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:22.559
Yeah.
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:32.720
There is such a high level of intentionality that comes with being a good communicator that is just hard to find.
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:50.960
I think that so many times uh the breakdown in communication, typically around the unexpressed needs or the assumptions, really is uh one of the biggest things that will disintegrate a relationship.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:56.160
Like you said, I mean that's why people come into your office so much as they do.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:05.200
And so helping people reframe communication in a very intentional way is so, so important.
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:31.920
When I look at assumptions, one of the things that comes to mind for me to how to combat assumption is to be curious, to press into the art of asking questions, to be able to investigate what it is that the other person is actually saying or doing or expecting.
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:44.559
And yet that takes a level of moving out of ourself and what we need and what we expect, and allowing the space to shift into.
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:55.519
So tell me more about what it is that you are wanting out of this, or why is it that when I did this, it made you uncomfortable?
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:59.920
Instead of, well, I never meant to make you uncomfortable.
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.599
Yeah, cool, but you did.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:02.720
Yeah, right, yeah.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:03.200
Right.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:11.839
And so that curiosity piece I think is so, so important and can help open communication pathways.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:12.319
Yeah.
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:19.680
Well, and assumptions are often the thing that people assume often is that other people see things the same way I do.
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:20.480
Yeah.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:21.119
Right.
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.480
They think that their perspective is the perspective.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:32.160
Um, and being married to a man, I realize that he thinks things very differently for me.
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.079
He sees things very differently from me, right?
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:41.440
And he by by listening to him and approaching him with that curiosity, a lot of times I can I can see things in a new light.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:50.240
I can see why he would do something a certain way or why he doesn't prioritize certain things that I think are important or or whatnot.
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:57.359
And it's not just man, woman, you know, there's no it's personalities that see things differently.
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:09.759
It's upbringings, it's all of the things that go into a person's um l life and character and um that shit shift their perspective or shape their perspective.
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:29.359
And so um, I think it's important that we do approach things with curiosity because people see things a lot differently than we do based on what they've experienced in the past, based on uh their values, based on their personality types.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:29.759
Yeah.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:30.240
Yeah.
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:57.279
Well, I mean, we all have histories and stories that are brought to the table, which when we look at how do we how do we be somehow together, that is part of the somehow piece is the the past experiences, the the past feelings, the the stories that we that we bring together makes the togetherness complicated and challenging.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:11.759
And yet somehow when we are willing to open ourselves up to learning new skills and adapting into something that is hard, we can actually learn and grow a lot from that.
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:26.079
Do you have you ever been in a conversation that you were having with somebody where you walked away from that conversation thinking, oh, that went great, only to find out later that it did not go great.
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:27.119
Sure.
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:32.480
My family, I just recently learned of my family doesn't know that I'm joking half the time.
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:34.559
Oh, interesting.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:35.039
I know.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.640
We I can't remember when we uh I think it came up at Christmas.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:54.799
Like, I probably shouldn't talk about my daughter on the podcast, but um I think she was like she said something like, Well, mom, you don't have to be so direct about it, or I can't remember what she said, but I'm like, you couldn't tell I was joking, and Olivia and Jason both are like, no.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:01.599
And I'm like, oh man, then you have missed so many things I've tried to communicate over the years.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:08.319
And I'm like, wow, I need to get better at my jokes, I guess.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:19.119
But um, and I'm like thinking, so you really they probably have us assumed that I'm very grumpy a lot of times because I've made jokes about things that I from like a sarcastic perspective, you know.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.799
I'm like, oh, they're not picking up on that.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.160
So yeah, yeah.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:27.519
And so yes, I did notice that or thought of that when you when I was looking over that question.
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:35.039
I also thought people um might f struggle when I communicate when I'm in task mode.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:42.079
I'm always like uh saying that I struggle to be either I'm either in task mode or I'm in people mode.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:43.680
It's hard to be in both at the same time.
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:48.720
So when I'm in task mode, I can get really direct, especially if I'm like getting tired.
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:53.440
Um something might come across as I don't know, grumpy or rude.
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:54.319
I don't know.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:57.359
And um I'm usually trying my best.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:05.599
I have a good heart most of the time, but yeah, I don't know that it's always communicated well when I'm tired and like focused on getting something done.
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:06.240
Sure.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:14.880
So anyway, that's those are the two thoughts I had around conversations that I feel unheard in.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.480
Um how about you?
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:22.079
It's funny that you mentioned that they don't think you're joking when you are trying to joke.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.599
I don't think that my family takes me seriously enough.
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.880
Sometimes and maybe laugh too much.
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:32.639
I don't laugh out loud.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:42.880
But I there recently there have been a there was a time when um we've, you know, we've gone through some challenges with our our kids, as all families do.
00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:53.519
And there was a time recently when I was trying to trying to be very clear in my discipline for the situation that we were facing with one of my boys.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:02.159
And I finally looked at him and I I literally asked, I said, are you even taking me seriously right now?
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.599
And he kind of chuckled a little bit and was like, not really.
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.719
And I said, is it because I haven't been mean enough?
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:18.960
Like, have I not been clear enough in what the consequences would be if the behavior continues?
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:24.800
And in his mind, and this this even goes back to that like unmet expectation or need.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:32.559
In his mind, if I were mad or serious enough, then I would treat him more poorly than I was.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:53.599
And so my ability to discipline and have consequences for him and then still be able to be in a light-hearted relationship when it's warranted, threw him off because he felt like I would, I should be being meaner to him if I was serious about what it was that we were talking about.
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:54.239
Interesting.
00:35:54.480 --> 00:36:02.559
So that was an interesting, interesting, dynamic conversation there, where it was actually literally the the opposite of yours.
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:23.840
I definitely think that there have been times over the years, especially before I learned more about communication and how people learn and communicate, uh, more about conflict resolution and conflict management and uh just all of the like how trauma and mental health plays a part into the way that we process and function.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:34.960
Before I learned a lot about all of those types of things, there are probably so many times where I walked away from from conversations everything, you know, everything's fine, everything's wonderful, everything's crawly.
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.239
Only to turn around and find out that it's that it's not.
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:46.960
One of the things I think that happens the most when it is like that is when I shift into fix it mode.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:47.920
Oh, sure.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:37:04.000
Where instead of being there and being present and listening and being curious, I will just step into the well, let's just, let's just get this fixed.
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:11.280
And that I think is when I feel like the really or the conversation went really well because obviously we we got stuff done.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:14.159
We problem solved.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:20.559
You got like a a five-point step system that you just gotta go do.
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:22.880
And you know, yep.
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:28.800
And so I think that that that makes sense to me can still be easy to slide into.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.159
Going into yeah, for sure.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:34.239
That's easy to have happen for sure.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:34.800
Yeah.
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:55.119
Which is interesting because it makes me wonder if we are actually more can not conditioned, that's probably the wrong word, the more apt to listen to fix things than we are just to listen and absorb and carry with people.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:03.760
Yeah, I remember when Olivia and I were on a walk, I think she was in high school, and she just she said it to me.
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.239
She goes, Mom, I just need you to listen.
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:13.760
And it's really hard, and I I've heard this theme over the years, as I've talked to a lot of teenagers, that their parents don't listen.
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.360
They try to fix things, so they stop talking, and I didn't want Olivia to stop talking to me.
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:26.559
And so I worked really hard to um stop trying to fix her problems and just be there and listen to her and walk with her.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:31.679
And um, and as a parent, I think we get uncomfortable with our kids' pain.
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:41.119
Yeah, you know, and so we want to fix it so that we feel better without re realizing that our fix it is not actually making them feel better.
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:50.880
And so um, I I remember that conversation vividly vividly, and I have really tried to continue to put that in practice.
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:52.639
Yeah, that hit.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.960
I do that even with friends now when they're going through a hard time.
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:02.320
I will say, do you want me just to listen and support you?
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:05.920
Or do you want me to jump in with you?
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.719
Do you want me to give suggestions?
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.119
Like what almost what hat do you want me to wear right now?
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:19.199
I think my sisters can get frustrated with me, although they do tend to come to me when they want my advice.
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:32.880
Uh, but I'm definitely it's easy for me to flow into advice mode with my sisters, and so I have to be really careful, even with them, to ask, okay, what is it that you're needing from me and wanting from me in this conversation?
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:43.119
So that I can give you what you need or want, as long as it doesn't, you know, mean that I'm stepping outside of my own value or belief system.
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:43.920
Sure.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:45.199
Yeah.
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:46.559
That totally makes sense.
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:47.760
That's fascinating.
00:39:49.280 --> 00:40:15.920
And when I think of conversations where we enter into to, especially as communicators or problem solving or whatever that looks like, one of the things that I keep in mind a lot and I try to walk with people through is we're often trying to solve different problems in the same conversation when we're not like clear and curious.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:24.719
That we might be trying to solve different things, and we can't understand why the other person isn't listening to us because we're not in the same place.
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:35.360
And so yeah, I go back again to that curiosity piece is is be curious, ask good questions of the person that you are communicating with.
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:36.719
Yeah, that's important.
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:37.920
It really is.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:46.880
Erica, what would you say to someone who is navigating or thinking of a hard relationship that they're in right now?
00:40:47.280 --> 00:41:00.079
One of the things that Jason and I have lived by, philosophies we've lived by in ministry and life for a lot of years, has been to assume the best of people.
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:08.079
Um, assume that they are trying their best, that they're giving their best, and um, that they mean the best.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:15.440
And when we assume the best of someone, uh, it just shapes how we view them.
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.079
It gives us understanding for them.
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:36.559
It helps us to approach them in a different way than if we were assuming the worst or assuming that they meant to do something, or the assuming that they were being whatever it is, lazy or not trying, or um, so assuming the best, right?
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:41.519
I would in relationships that are hard, I would start with noticing it.
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.119
I would notice your thoughts and feelings around the relationship.
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.639
I would notice whether it's worth your time and energy.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:51.199
Are you is there some kind of benefit from it?
00:41:51.840 --> 00:42:02.079
Um notice if you're making those assumptions and think, can this relationship be saved with a DTR conversation?
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:10.159
You know, can if you sat down and like hash this out and talked about our expectations and our needs in the relationship, can it be salvaged?
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:18.559
And if not, how can you communicate that to the person that um that maybe you need to, you know, create more distance with?
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:21.679
So I love that.
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:28.480
Do you have any other suggestions for navigating hard conversations or hard relationships?
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:32.000
How much more time do we have?
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:41.199
I know you guys are getting like little sound bits from us of things that we literally can spend hours and hours talking, talking people through.
00:42:41.440 --> 00:43:02.000
I think one of the things that I have really worked hard on is similar, I think, to your believing the best about somebody or not assuming the worst about somebody is being very careful about the story we tell ourselves in regards to that person or the situation or the circumstance that we find ourselves in.
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:09.920
And so it could not even be about the person, it could be the story we're telling ourselves in is this this is beyond repair.
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:15.119
And anything I say at this point isn't going to matter because they're not going to listen.
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:30.800
Well, now we're telling ourselves a story about a perceived outcome, and we are also not thinking the best of the person that we, for all intents and purposes, have loved and and poured part of ourselves into as far as a friendship and a relationship goes.
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:41.760
And so I think not telling ourselves a story is important, or at least being willing to ask ourselves, what story am I telling myself about this?
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.519
What in this is true?
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:45.519
What in this is not true?
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:58.400
Is this a pattern of behavior or a pattern of unmet needs and unmet expectations that is present, or is it a one time issue that is popping up?
00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:58.960
Yes.
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:06.639
Have I talked To this person about the way that I am feeling thinking or behaving.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.800
Or have I not?
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:23.679
And now what could have been solved in one conversation may result in a harder, harder attempt at reconciling the relationship back to a closer normal.
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:27.519
And those are really, those are really hard things.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:38.239
And when you are in the hard relationship currently, it's asking a lot to be willing to step into those, those, those places.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:44.559
And so I do want to acknowledge and recognize for those who are listening who are in a hard relationship.
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.320
Yeah, you are going through some really hard things.
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:54.480
And maybe the person that you are struggling with is the person that you would typically talk to about how to navigate this with somebody else.
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:08.559
And so I would really encourage you to reach out, reach out to another friend, reach out to somebody that is trustworthy, who has a good track record of good and clear communications and healthy relationships, and say, hey, what are some ways that I can navigate this?
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:11.119
Could you give me, give me some guidance in this?
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:24.000
I love how you said, is it just a one-time situation that can be talked through, or is it a pattern of behavior that is not going to be salvageable, at least at this time?
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:34.239
And it's really hard for us because but the re the reality of it is that not all friendships and not all relationships are forever friendships and relationships, right?
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:34.880
I know.
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.239
And that's really, really hard.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:44.719
Um, sometimes it's seasonal, sometimes it is um there's irreconcilable how do you say that word?
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:51.039
Irreconcilable differences that make it really hard to move past.
00:45:51.199 --> 00:46:00.639
And so um one of the podcasts that I really like to listen to talked about friendship breakups and how they can be just as painful as a divorce at times.
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:06.159
And so yeah, and I've had that happen in my life where I've had a breakup with a friend that was very, very painful.
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:13.920
And so um it's it's important to recognize that um sometimes we need extra support.
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:21.039
We have to find new can connections or new supports to help us through that time of loss and change.
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:21.920
Yeah.
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.119
And navigating that is really hard when you are trying to do it alone.
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:27.840
Yeah.
00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:29.519
Truly it is.
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:39.440
And so I'm I'm so thankful that I have people in my life that I can turn to and go to when I am struggling in in a relationship area.
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:45.119
And sometimes it's even for myself where I ask, like, Am I am I off base here?
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:48.480
Am I reading something into this that isn't present?
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:51.280
Am I bringing too much of my own story?
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:54.480
Is my story leaking into this situation?
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:55.039
You know?
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:08.800
And so I have people in my life who I can go to and ask those questions even about myself, so that I can make sure that if I need to approach that conversation, I'm doing it from the most healthiest standpoint that I can do.
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:09.679
Yeah.
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:12.559
Which is not easy.
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:14.079
No, it's not.
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:16.239
Not it's not easy.
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:30.400
What do you think what do you think our churches would look like if we practiced healthier communication and these types of relational skills?
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:48.239
I think they would look like the thing that we're trying to describe through this podcast, you know, that we would we would be able to stick together for longer periods of time, that we wouldn't let things get in the way.
00:47:48.559 --> 00:47:54.480
Miscommunic communications or assumptions get in the way of uh the relationship and connections.
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:57.760
We would have a lot more conversations.
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:14.960
Um, we get to like let Jesus and the Holy Spirit do some reconciling between us more often because we would be bringing up problems and having conversations about them and asking for forgiveness and forgiving others.
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:28.400
And um I think that we would we would feel like we could come to people more easily because we would be in practice of doing that.
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:29.280
Yeah.
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:38.000
And I think again, I go back to if you let small things pile up, they become the really big things, which are much, much harder to work through.
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:58.320
And so if we as a church family, church body created the space to be able to address issues before they became really big ones, we would be cultivating a much safer and healthier like relationship dynamic just between people.
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:04.159
And some things, like we said, some things they're not gonna go back to the way that they always were, or they're not gonna be fully reconcilable.
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:10.719
And we can do all the work of forgiveness and uh extending grace where we can and all of the right things.
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:16.559
We can do all of the right things, it but it still takes both parties doing all of the right things as well.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:23.280
And so there will still be times, you know, ideally we're not gonna see this type of perfection.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:37.760
This side of heaven, this side of heaven, though, which is unfortunate, and also gives us so many opportunities to to practice living into the relational wholeness that I truly do believe the Lord wants for us.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:51.599
He he created us for it, and part of part of being reconciled to him means that we get to live and function in healthier ways as individuals and communities.
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.960
It's what he's prescribed for his church, mm-hmm.
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:55.840
Right?
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:57.519
Oh, it's what he wants.
00:49:57.760 --> 00:49:58.400
Yeah.
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:05.840
But again, on this side of heaven, we may not see it, but we can work, we can strive for it and keep trying.
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:06.480
We can.
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:07.599
We can.
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:15.280
And I think of like I think of the fact that you pour into this young adult population here, and I'm heavily involved with our youth.
00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:23.119
And there's reasons why, even though I am in an in adult ministries, I will always pour into the younger generations.
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:35.360
And I do believe it is because when we can learn some of these things earlier, the baggage that we then drag into our adult relationships hopefully will be a little bit lighter.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:35.679
Yeah.
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:42.480
Not non-existent, because we're always going to have our own stories and our own histories and our own pasts and our own experiences that we bring into things.
00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:50.800
But also hopefully we're able to give and equip with tools and tricks and tips along the way.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:54.400
Maybe save them a little of the pain we've had to endure.
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:55.519
Yeah, maybe.
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:56.400
Yeah.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:58.320
Maybe we'll see.
00:50:59.199 --> 00:50:59.760
All right.
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:04.239
Well, that's enough of the heaviness for this episode.
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:11.440
We are gonna close out with our somehow together podcast question of the day.
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:12.960
It's a mouthful.
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:23.599
And our question today that we are going to end on is what is your most useless talent?
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:24.800
All right.
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.000
Well, goodness.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:39.760
I think that in this world of technology and typing, my useless talent is that I have really neat penmanship and cursive writing.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:42.480
I won an award in sixth grade for it.
00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:43.599
I know.
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:45.199
I guess.
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:53.679
And um, I do I have lost a lot of my skills because I've stopped typing or writing as much, you know, because I type all the time.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.840
But I have a really, really nice penmanship when I try.
00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:58.800
So nice.
00:51:58.960 --> 00:51:59.360
How about you?
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:01.360
What's one of your useless skills?
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:03.440
You do not have any.
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:08.000
I can kind of talk like Donald Duck.
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:10.320
Because I'm gonna try and go without blowing out the mic.
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:11.519
Okay, let's hear it.
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:25.840
It gets me no credit anywhere other than laughter, and definitely does not earn myself friendship credit.
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:26.800
That's funny.
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.239
On any you learn bonus points from me.
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:31.199
So there we go.
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:32.079
Yes.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.000
Well, thank you guys so much for listening to today.
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:45.920
And I just want to encourage you as we wrap up, maybe it's not about having perfect relationships, but more honest ones.
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:49.840
And somehow we will figure this all out together.
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:53.360
Until next time, we will chat with you later.
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:56.719
Thanks for spending time with us today.
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:02.079
If this conversation resonated with you, please share it with someone you want to help feel a little less alone.
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:07.760
And as you go into your week, ask yourself where in my life do I need togetherness right now?
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:11.599
And until next time, we are somehow together.
