00:00:00
Speaker 1: It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer Larry Stone. Brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery. Bigger, better, and fresher since 1971. With eight Puget Sound locations from Marysville to Lacey and everywhere in between. There's a Ram near you. Now with Softie and Dick, here's Larry Stone.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: All right, here we go on a busy, busy Tuesday night. Big thanks to our friends at the Ram, by the way. My God, after this baseball team, watching them for the last five and a half months, we may have to break into Banger's bourbon collection, by the way, over there.
00:00:35
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:00:36
Speaker 4: Banger's got a solid bourbon collection that I've tried a few times.
00:00:39
Speaker 5: Moley.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Well, here he is, our friend Larry Stone, formerly of the Seattle Times. now of a depressed Mariner fan base. He's just like us. He's one of us, and he's joining us right now.
00:00:50
Speaker 5: How are you, man?
00:00:52
Speaker 6: I'm doing good.
00:00:53
Speaker 2: How are you guys doing? Good, except the baseball team stinks. I mean, God darn.
00:00:58
Speaker 6: It, Larry.
00:00:58
Speaker 2: The Astros go 2-6, their last eight. You go 4-7, your last 11, against one of the easiest schedules in baseball. I think you mentioned this on Twitter the other day. Mariners are 2-5 in the last seven games against the A's.
00:01:12
Speaker 5: You flip that around, and you're 2-1⁄2 out right now. I mean, this is like... You know, you get this gift and.
00:01:20
Speaker 3: Just decide to throw it over the side of a.
00:01:23
Speaker 5: Cliff, man. This has been massively infuriating and embarrassing. Yeah, both.
00:01:29
Speaker 6: You know, you throw in the loss to the Angels yesterday, two and six in those games against the two worst teams in the American League. Flip those around and you're sitting pretty right now. Can you imagine the excitement level if you were a game and a half out with two of the Astros still to come? What's so mind-boggling is, and I did tweet this, but as miserable as the first five and a half months of the season were, it was there for them. It was all there for them. They could have reversed all the bad stuff with a good closing burst of the final 20 games. And they've just, you know, they've just blown it completely. I mean, and it's over now. So they have only themselves to blame because they had the opening. So how do you.
00:02:24
Speaker 3: Explain it.
00:02:25
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously it's a full systems, complete systems failure when you have a season like this.
00:02:30
Speaker 3: So it's obviously not one thing.
00:02:32
Speaker 4: So you've got Dan Wilson, you've got the weak mentality of the players, a potential talent deficit maybe, or maybe a poorly constructed roster. Maybe we can point to that in the bullpen. How do you break down the blame pie of this whole thing?
00:02:50
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, I think number one, I think you have to look at the big three of this team going in Cal Julio and Naylor have all been subpar to varying degrees. The three guys that you thought would carry this team, you know, Cal is finally is hitting again, but he was a non-factor, a negative factor for the first several months of the season. Julio, since he, you know, dating back to his concussion, he's has been an average to below average player over the second half. And Naylor, just the pop hasn't been there all year. So I think you start with that. With total regression by the bullpen, it's hurt them. I think a very underrated factor is the extremely poor defense of this team, which I think has affected the pitching staff as well. By some metrics, the worst defensive team in baseball, and that is going to trickle down to the pitchers. Yeah. You know, there's been a step back by the starters as well, which has carried this team for the last four or five years. And then throw in the fringe players like the ref Snyder and Ward and Garver and those kind of guys who didn't perform and the managerial decisions. And you have you have where you are today.
00:04:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, Larry Stone's with us. And Larry, it's hard to go on the air and say things like they did.
00:04:12
Speaker 5: Aren't trying. They've quit. They've packed it in.
00:04:15
Speaker 2: And I've been guilty of saying things like that before, but perception's reality, right? And that's all we have to work with in a lot of ways is the perception because we don't know everything going on behind the scenes.
00:04:26
Speaker 5: Do you believe in.
00:04:27
Speaker 2: Your gut as a guy that covered this sport for a long, long time? Is this team going out there? Are they giving 110% or do they look like a baseball team that is kind of whether consciously or subconsciously mailing this in?
00:04:42
Speaker 6: I don't go there, Dave. I don't think any player mails it in. They're playing for contracts. They're playing for playing time in the future. I don't see that. But this has been a team that really has not played smart, fundamental baseball from the beginning of the year. You've seen it all year, and you've seen it in the last couple of games, that Sunday loss to the A's. not backing up a Rosarena, not backing up the throw, Rodden hesitating on not getting the force out and then not getting any out. Johnny Pareda overrunning the bag at second and getting thrown out. You've seen stuff like that all year. I don't think it's lack of effort. It's just kind of dumb baseball. A manager doesn't seem to hold anybody accountable for that stuff. I think that makes it easier for guys to keep playing that way. I think that's been a big factor in their struggles this year. Everybody says it, the accountability, but I think there's truth to that.
00:05:51
Speaker 4: Well, Larry, let's go back to a couple of other painful seasons that you actually covered. So in 2009, they win 85 games. They then add Cliff Lee and Sean Figgins, and they go 61-101 when they.
00:06:06
Speaker 3: Were expected to win 90.
00:06:07
Speaker 4: And then in 2008... They were coming off an 88 win season and they added Eric Bedard and Carlos Silver to their pitching rotation.
00:06:19
Speaker 3: So how do you compare this.
00:06:21
Speaker 4: Year and those two years, which are seen as the most disappointing seasons in Mariner history? Yeah.
00:06:28
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, I got to shout out Jackson Phelps, who in our first show of the year, when I was just prattling on about how stacked this team was and division title and World Series, he chimed in with some real reservations about whether they had done enough and everything.
00:06:45
Speaker 5: So he thought before I did, I'll.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Say that, but he says that every year, he's just a Debbie down.
00:06:51
Speaker 6: He's Mr.
00:06:51
Speaker 5: Negative.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: He's bound to get one right at some point.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: I mean, if you, if you throw enough poop at the wall, eventually it'll stick.
00:06:58
Speaker 5: All right.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:07:01
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't think I was alone. We, we all thought that they had that team. So I think it's the, I think it's the most disappointing of all because you know, this team was coming off the, those other teams hadn't made the playoffs. This team had gone within an eyelash of the world series and had the core back and added Donovan. Uh, we hadn't designed Naylor, you know, Donovan is another. When I was listing off the things that went wrong, here's a guy that was expected to be an impact player, and we've barely seen him this year. It doesn't look like he's going to play again the rest of the year. When you factor in expectations and just the eye test, it seems like a team that had every capability of doing things that we've never seen, which is specifically getting to the World Series and to not even... Not even get to 500. I mean, 11 games under 500 is just mind-boggling.
00:08:05
Speaker 2: What were those two years you quoted, Dick?
00:08:07
Speaker 3: 2010 and 2008.
00:08:08
Speaker 5: 2010, 2008.
00:08:09
Speaker 2: Okay, the difference between those two years and this year is the Mariners did not make the playoffs in the previous season. I think you've got to go back and look at the teams that made the playoffs and what they did the following year. 2004, then, would be a good one. Well, but they missed it in 03. They did win 93. But this would be like the 2000 or 2001 Mariners or the 97 Mariners or the 95 Mariners the next year losing 85 games and just falling apart.
00:08:40
Speaker 5: I mean, that's the difference for me, Larry, is that this.
00:08:43
Speaker 2: Is a team that did more literally than any team in franchise history because they got to game seven of the ALCS and then they fall flat on their face.
00:08:52
Speaker 5: So, I mean, the question.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Now becomes, and Dick and I were talking about this on the air, out of respect for Dan Wilson, who we all like as a guy, do we wait until the year's over? Can we wait two weeks to start talking about the new manager or is it appropriate to have that conversation now?
00:09:10
Speaker 5: Honestly.
00:09:10
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, are you asking if it's okay to have the conversation?
00:09:13
Speaker 5: No, I'm just asking.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: Or should they fire him now? Well, I mean, shouldn't they? I don't think they should because what's the point of that, by the way? But are you ready to have that conversation about who the next guy is?
00:09:28
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it's fair because I don't think there's– I think there's an industry consensus. We talked about it last week that he's not going to be back. And, you know, I don't– I get the impression just from watching him that he doesn't necessarily want to be back next year. He looks like, you know, he's aged 10 years in the last season. And, I mean, here's a guy who's beloved in the community, in the organization. You know, everybody loved Dan Wilson, Mr.
00:09:54
Speaker 5: Nice Guy.
00:09:55
Speaker 6: And now it can't be any fun to be, uh, you know, as disliked as he is not personally, but, uh, the position that he holds, you know, I think if he, once he, once he goes back to being a civilian, I think he'll be beloved again.
00:10:09
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it's okay.
00:10:10
Speaker 6: I think it's okay to start talking about the next manager because there's going to be a next manager.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: Right.
00:10:15
Speaker 4: So if, if they would have just fired him when Chuck Powell wanted them to fire him, what.
00:10:19
Speaker 5: Was that like?
00:10:20
Speaker 3: I mean, that was what, eight weeks ago, two months ago.
00:10:24
Speaker 4: Could they have at least gone six and two in the games that softy was talking about against the A's.
00:10:31
Speaker 3: And the angels and be in this thing right now?
00:10:33
Speaker 5: Who would they have hired?
00:10:35
Speaker 3: Even if they just promoted Manny.
00:10:37
Speaker 5: Manny Acta?
00:10:38
Speaker 4: But, I mean, just as a shake-up. Just as a flamethrower to the clubhouse. They fired the fourth-string hitting coach. What more do you want?
00:10:50
Speaker 3: He was the problem. Mac Iannis, or whatever his name was.
00:10:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
00:10:55
Speaker 6: I think he's at the last laugh now, kind of saying, see, it wasn't me.
00:10:59
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:11:00
Speaker 6: I mean, you have two case studies this year, guys, the Red Sox and the Phillies. Both of them fired their manager early in the season and took off after that. Red Sox became the hottest team in baseball. They're headed for the playoffs. The Phillies were kind of muddling along and then Don Mattingly came aboard and they're headed for the playoffs. So There is a bounce that you often get. Sometimes it's short-lived, but it was sustained with those teams.
00:11:28
Speaker 5: I think it's a fair point.
00:11:31
Speaker 6: That with different leadership, this team may not have had the issues that they have, although many of the issues, to be fair to Dan, are not.
00:11:41
Speaker 5: Caused by him.
00:11:43
Speaker 6: Cal, Julio, and Naylor aren't playing poorly because of Dan Wilson.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Well, you know who gave him a bounce in the dugout?
00:11:50
Speaker 5: It was Dan Wilson when they fired Scott Service.
00:11:53
Speaker 2: They got a huge bounce at the end of the 2024 season.
00:11:57
Speaker 5: They got a massive bounce with Dan.
00:11:58
Speaker 2: They played great baseball in September.
00:12:01
Speaker 5: So, I mean, I'm kind of with you.
00:12:02
Speaker 2: I think this team is more flawed fundamentally than maybe those teams were. I mean, the defense is terrible. It's been terrible all year long, you know, but the leadership and lack of accountability to me is you're dead on about that. That's been bugging me for months. But I mean, just some of the random names out there. Alex Cora is available. Rocco Baldelli, David Ross, the former Cubs manager, you know, Brandon Hyde, who was the manager of the year in 23. I'm not sure what he's doing these days, but there's some decent sized names out there. Do you have your eye on one that you've kind of identified that you think would be a good fit, or do we think that Jerry DiPoto will go out and get somebody of his ilk that maybe fits this system and maybe falls in line more with what he had with Scott Service.
00:12:48
Speaker 5: And Dan Wilson?
00:12:50
Speaker 6: Well, I do have a name, and it wasn't one that you mentioned, but it's Torrey Lovolo of the Diamondbacks. There's strong rumors that if they don't make the playoffs that he's out. He led them to the pennant. He's been a good manager. He's a good communicator. He seems to have a good mix of old school and analytics background. He actually played for the Mariners briefly. I remember covering him when he first came to Seattle. A very personable guy. Now the Diamondbacks are surging, and they may make the postseason. It may be a moot point, but he's a name to tuck away, I think.
00:13:32
Speaker 4: Another thing we were talking about earlier I'd love to get your take on is, will they hire the best guy for the job, or will they hire the guy that just fits with what Jerry wants them to do?
00:13:41
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker 6: I mean, are we assuming Jerry's going to be back, too, in this scenario, I guess?
00:13:46
Speaker 5: We'll talk about that.
00:13:47
Speaker 3: I mean, Santi and I kind of are, but maybe you're not.
00:13:50
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think he's going to be back because, you know, thinking about it, we talked a little bit about it last week, but with the labor situation looming, I think it's hard to change GMs because there's going to be a flurry of. Like what happened last time, the lockout will go almost to spring training, and we'll assume it's the same timetable. They'll settle in mid-March, and then everybody will go crazy making signings. I think you need a guy who's got the experience. It's not a good time to change leaders at that point. So that's why I think they'll probably stick with.
00:14:37
Speaker 6: With Jerry, but, um, I mean, it's to everyone's benefit to hire the best guy because you're, you know, I understand what you're saying, but, uh, I think Jerry wants to win as bad as anybody. And the way to do that is to hire.
00:14:56
Speaker 5: The best guy.
00:14:57
Speaker 6: And I would think that everyone has seen what happens when you don't hire somebody with any experience at all. I think If I were in charge, that would be a priority for me. It could work the other way. Stephen Vogt had never managed before, and he's two-time manager of the year. The mayors let him get away. He was right under their nose. There are cases where inexperienced managers flourish right from the start, but I think considering where the Mariners are, I think they need somebody with a strong hand and a strong background.
00:15:31
Speaker 5: Well, I was going to ask you one more, but good news for you, we're out of time. All right?
00:15:35
Speaker 2: So you've dodged a bullet yet again. But, hey, we'll pick it up in a week, and we'll see where these guys are in seven days from now, man.
00:15:43
Speaker 5: Great stuff. Enjoy the rest of the week, and we'll talk Tuesday, man.
00:15:47
Speaker 6: All right, thanks, guys.
00:15:48
Speaker 2: All right, Larry Stone with us on the air talking some Mariner baseball.
00:15:51
Speaker 5: They got the Angels tonight, and I don't know.
00:15:54
Speaker 2: I mean, I think to answer your question real quick, Dick, for me this has been maybe the most disappointing season ever in this franchise's history, to be this awful in this awful of a division and to not even be really a factor. It's like if you're fighting tooth and nail, okay, fine, but you're not even a factor right now. You're five games out, 11 games under, forget it.
Speaker 1: It's time for our weekly conversation with legendary sports writer Larry Stone. Brought to you by the Ram Restaurant and Brewery. Bigger, better, and fresher since 1971. With eight Puget Sound locations from Marysville to Lacey and everywhere in between. There's a Ram near you. Now with Softie and Dick, here's Larry Stone.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: All right, here we go on a busy, busy Tuesday night. Big thanks to our friends at the Ram, by the way. My God, after this baseball team, watching them for the last five and a half months, we may have to break into Banger's bourbon collection, by the way, over there.
00:00:35
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:00:36
Speaker 4: Banger's got a solid bourbon collection that I've tried a few times.
00:00:39
Speaker 5: Moley.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: Well, here he is, our friend Larry Stone, formerly of the Seattle Times. now of a depressed Mariner fan base. He's just like us. He's one of us, and he's joining us right now.
00:00:50
Speaker 5: How are you, man?
00:00:52
Speaker 6: I'm doing good.
00:00:53
Speaker 2: How are you guys doing? Good, except the baseball team stinks. I mean, God darn.
00:00:58
Speaker 6: It, Larry.
00:00:58
Speaker 2: The Astros go 2-6, their last eight. You go 4-7, your last 11, against one of the easiest schedules in baseball. I think you mentioned this on Twitter the other day. Mariners are 2-5 in the last seven games against the A's.
00:01:12
Speaker 5: You flip that around, and you're 2-1⁄2 out right now. I mean, this is like... You know, you get this gift and.
00:01:20
Speaker 3: Just decide to throw it over the side of a.
00:01:23
Speaker 5: Cliff, man. This has been massively infuriating and embarrassing. Yeah, both.
00:01:29
Speaker 6: You know, you throw in the loss to the Angels yesterday, two and six in those games against the two worst teams in the American League. Flip those around and you're sitting pretty right now. Can you imagine the excitement level if you were a game and a half out with two of the Astros still to come? What's so mind-boggling is, and I did tweet this, but as miserable as the first five and a half months of the season were, it was there for them. It was all there for them. They could have reversed all the bad stuff with a good closing burst of the final 20 games. And they've just, you know, they've just blown it completely. I mean, and it's over now. So they have only themselves to blame because they had the opening. So how do you.
00:02:24
Speaker 3: Explain it.
00:02:25
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously it's a full systems, complete systems failure when you have a season like this.
00:02:30
Speaker 3: So it's obviously not one thing.
00:02:32
Speaker 4: So you've got Dan Wilson, you've got the weak mentality of the players, a potential talent deficit maybe, or maybe a poorly constructed roster. Maybe we can point to that in the bullpen. How do you break down the blame pie of this whole thing?
00:02:50
Speaker 6: Yeah. I mean, I think number one, I think you have to look at the big three of this team going in Cal Julio and Naylor have all been subpar to varying degrees. The three guys that you thought would carry this team, you know, Cal is finally is hitting again, but he was a non-factor, a negative factor for the first several months of the season. Julio, since he, you know, dating back to his concussion, he's has been an average to below average player over the second half. And Naylor, just the pop hasn't been there all year. So I think you start with that. With total regression by the bullpen, it's hurt them. I think a very underrated factor is the extremely poor defense of this team, which I think has affected the pitching staff as well. By some metrics, the worst defensive team in baseball, and that is going to trickle down to the pitchers. Yeah. You know, there's been a step back by the starters as well, which has carried this team for the last four or five years. And then throw in the fringe players like the ref Snyder and Ward and Garver and those kind of guys who didn't perform and the managerial decisions. And you have you have where you are today.
00:04:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, Larry Stone's with us. And Larry, it's hard to go on the air and say things like they did.
00:04:12
Speaker 5: Aren't trying. They've quit. They've packed it in.
00:04:15
Speaker 2: And I've been guilty of saying things like that before, but perception's reality, right? And that's all we have to work with in a lot of ways is the perception because we don't know everything going on behind the scenes.
00:04:26
Speaker 5: Do you believe in.
00:04:27
Speaker 2: Your gut as a guy that covered this sport for a long, long time? Is this team going out there? Are they giving 110% or do they look like a baseball team that is kind of whether consciously or subconsciously mailing this in?
00:04:42
Speaker 6: I don't go there, Dave. I don't think any player mails it in. They're playing for contracts. They're playing for playing time in the future. I don't see that. But this has been a team that really has not played smart, fundamental baseball from the beginning of the year. You've seen it all year, and you've seen it in the last couple of games, that Sunday loss to the A's. not backing up a Rosarena, not backing up the throw, Rodden hesitating on not getting the force out and then not getting any out. Johnny Pareda overrunning the bag at second and getting thrown out. You've seen stuff like that all year. I don't think it's lack of effort. It's just kind of dumb baseball. A manager doesn't seem to hold anybody accountable for that stuff. I think that makes it easier for guys to keep playing that way. I think that's been a big factor in their struggles this year. Everybody says it, the accountability, but I think there's truth to that.
00:05:51
Speaker 4: Well, Larry, let's go back to a couple of other painful seasons that you actually covered. So in 2009, they win 85 games. They then add Cliff Lee and Sean Figgins, and they go 61-101 when they.
00:06:06
Speaker 3: Were expected to win 90.
00:06:07
Speaker 4: And then in 2008... They were coming off an 88 win season and they added Eric Bedard and Carlos Silver to their pitching rotation.
00:06:19
Speaker 3: So how do you compare this.
00:06:21
Speaker 4: Year and those two years, which are seen as the most disappointing seasons in Mariner history? Yeah.
00:06:28
Speaker 6: Well, first of all, I got to shout out Jackson Phelps, who in our first show of the year, when I was just prattling on about how stacked this team was and division title and World Series, he chimed in with some real reservations about whether they had done enough and everything.
00:06:45
Speaker 5: So he thought before I did, I'll.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Say that, but he says that every year, he's just a Debbie down.
00:06:51
Speaker 6: He's Mr.
00:06:51
Speaker 5: Negative.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: He's bound to get one right at some point.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: I mean, if you, if you throw enough poop at the wall, eventually it'll stick.
00:06:58
Speaker 5: All right.
00:07:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:07:01
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't think I was alone. We, we all thought that they had that team. So I think it's the, I think it's the most disappointing of all because you know, this team was coming off the, those other teams hadn't made the playoffs. This team had gone within an eyelash of the world series and had the core back and added Donovan. Uh, we hadn't designed Naylor, you know, Donovan is another. When I was listing off the things that went wrong, here's a guy that was expected to be an impact player, and we've barely seen him this year. It doesn't look like he's going to play again the rest of the year. When you factor in expectations and just the eye test, it seems like a team that had every capability of doing things that we've never seen, which is specifically getting to the World Series and to not even... Not even get to 500. I mean, 11 games under 500 is just mind-boggling.
00:08:05
Speaker 2: What were those two years you quoted, Dick?
00:08:07
Speaker 3: 2010 and 2008.
00:08:08
Speaker 5: 2010, 2008.
00:08:09
Speaker 2: Okay, the difference between those two years and this year is the Mariners did not make the playoffs in the previous season. I think you've got to go back and look at the teams that made the playoffs and what they did the following year. 2004, then, would be a good one. Well, but they missed it in 03. They did win 93. But this would be like the 2000 or 2001 Mariners or the 97 Mariners or the 95 Mariners the next year losing 85 games and just falling apart.
00:08:40
Speaker 5: I mean, that's the difference for me, Larry, is that this.
00:08:43
Speaker 2: Is a team that did more literally than any team in franchise history because they got to game seven of the ALCS and then they fall flat on their face.
00:08:52
Speaker 5: So, I mean, the question.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Now becomes, and Dick and I were talking about this on the air, out of respect for Dan Wilson, who we all like as a guy, do we wait until the year's over? Can we wait two weeks to start talking about the new manager or is it appropriate to have that conversation now?
00:09:10
Speaker 5: Honestly.
00:09:10
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, are you asking if it's okay to have the conversation?
00:09:13
Speaker 5: No, I'm just asking.
00:09:15
Speaker 2: Or should they fire him now? Well, I mean, shouldn't they? I don't think they should because what's the point of that, by the way? But are you ready to have that conversation about who the next guy is?
00:09:28
Speaker 6: I mean, I think it's fair because I don't think there's– I think there's an industry consensus. We talked about it last week that he's not going to be back. And, you know, I don't– I get the impression just from watching him that he doesn't necessarily want to be back next year. He looks like, you know, he's aged 10 years in the last season. And, I mean, here's a guy who's beloved in the community, in the organization. You know, everybody loved Dan Wilson, Mr.
00:09:54
Speaker 5: Nice Guy.
00:09:55
Speaker 6: And now it can't be any fun to be, uh, you know, as disliked as he is not personally, but, uh, the position that he holds, you know, I think if he, once he, once he goes back to being a civilian, I think he'll be beloved again.
00:10:09
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it's okay.
00:10:10
Speaker 6: I think it's okay to start talking about the next manager because there's going to be a next manager.
00:10:14
Speaker 1: Right.
00:10:15
Speaker 4: So if, if they would have just fired him when Chuck Powell wanted them to fire him, what.
00:10:19
Speaker 5: Was that like?
00:10:20
Speaker 3: I mean, that was what, eight weeks ago, two months ago.
00:10:24
Speaker 4: Could they have at least gone six and two in the games that softy was talking about against the A's.
00:10:31
Speaker 3: And the angels and be in this thing right now?
00:10:33
Speaker 5: Who would they have hired?
00:10:35
Speaker 3: Even if they just promoted Manny.
00:10:37
Speaker 5: Manny Acta?
00:10:38
Speaker 4: But, I mean, just as a shake-up. Just as a flamethrower to the clubhouse. They fired the fourth-string hitting coach. What more do you want?
00:10:50
Speaker 3: He was the problem. Mac Iannis, or whatever his name was.
00:10:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
00:10:55
Speaker 6: I think he's at the last laugh now, kind of saying, see, it wasn't me.
00:10:59
Speaker 3: That's right.
00:11:00
Speaker 6: I mean, you have two case studies this year, guys, the Red Sox and the Phillies. Both of them fired their manager early in the season and took off after that. Red Sox became the hottest team in baseball. They're headed for the playoffs. The Phillies were kind of muddling along and then Don Mattingly came aboard and they're headed for the playoffs. So There is a bounce that you often get. Sometimes it's short-lived, but it was sustained with those teams.
00:11:28
Speaker 5: I think it's a fair point.
00:11:31
Speaker 6: That with different leadership, this team may not have had the issues that they have, although many of the issues, to be fair to Dan, are not.
00:11:41
Speaker 5: Caused by him.
00:11:43
Speaker 6: Cal, Julio, and Naylor aren't playing poorly because of Dan Wilson.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: Well, you know who gave him a bounce in the dugout?
00:11:50
Speaker 5: It was Dan Wilson when they fired Scott Service.
00:11:53
Speaker 2: They got a huge bounce at the end of the 2024 season.
00:11:57
Speaker 5: They got a massive bounce with Dan.
00:11:58
Speaker 2: They played great baseball in September.
00:12:01
Speaker 5: So, I mean, I'm kind of with you.
00:12:02
Speaker 2: I think this team is more flawed fundamentally than maybe those teams were. I mean, the defense is terrible. It's been terrible all year long, you know, but the leadership and lack of accountability to me is you're dead on about that. That's been bugging me for months. But I mean, just some of the random names out there. Alex Cora is available. Rocco Baldelli, David Ross, the former Cubs manager, you know, Brandon Hyde, who was the manager of the year in 23. I'm not sure what he's doing these days, but there's some decent sized names out there. Do you have your eye on one that you've kind of identified that you think would be a good fit, or do we think that Jerry DiPoto will go out and get somebody of his ilk that maybe fits this system and maybe falls in line more with what he had with Scott Service.
00:12:48
Speaker 5: And Dan Wilson?
00:12:50
Speaker 6: Well, I do have a name, and it wasn't one that you mentioned, but it's Torrey Lovolo of the Diamondbacks. There's strong rumors that if they don't make the playoffs that he's out. He led them to the pennant. He's been a good manager. He's a good communicator. He seems to have a good mix of old school and analytics background. He actually played for the Mariners briefly. I remember covering him when he first came to Seattle. A very personable guy. Now the Diamondbacks are surging, and they may make the postseason. It may be a moot point, but he's a name to tuck away, I think.
00:13:32
Speaker 4: Another thing we were talking about earlier I'd love to get your take on is, will they hire the best guy for the job, or will they hire the guy that just fits with what Jerry wants them to do?
00:13:41
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker 6: I mean, are we assuming Jerry's going to be back, too, in this scenario, I guess?
00:13:46
Speaker 5: We'll talk about that.
00:13:47
Speaker 3: I mean, Santi and I kind of are, but maybe you're not.
00:13:50
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:13:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I think he's going to be back because, you know, thinking about it, we talked a little bit about it last week, but with the labor situation looming, I think it's hard to change GMs because there's going to be a flurry of. Like what happened last time, the lockout will go almost to spring training, and we'll assume it's the same timetable. They'll settle in mid-March, and then everybody will go crazy making signings. I think you need a guy who's got the experience. It's not a good time to change leaders at that point. So that's why I think they'll probably stick with.
00:14:37
Speaker 6: With Jerry, but, um, I mean, it's to everyone's benefit to hire the best guy because you're, you know, I understand what you're saying, but, uh, I think Jerry wants to win as bad as anybody. And the way to do that is to hire.
00:14:56
Speaker 5: The best guy.
00:14:57
Speaker 6: And I would think that everyone has seen what happens when you don't hire somebody with any experience at all. I think If I were in charge, that would be a priority for me. It could work the other way. Stephen Vogt had never managed before, and he's two-time manager of the year. The mayors let him get away. He was right under their nose. There are cases where inexperienced managers flourish right from the start, but I think considering where the Mariners are, I think they need somebody with a strong hand and a strong background.
00:15:31
Speaker 5: Well, I was going to ask you one more, but good news for you, we're out of time. All right?
00:15:35
Speaker 2: So you've dodged a bullet yet again. But, hey, we'll pick it up in a week, and we'll see where these guys are in seven days from now, man.
00:15:43
Speaker 5: Great stuff. Enjoy the rest of the week, and we'll talk Tuesday, man.
00:15:47
Speaker 6: All right, thanks, guys.
00:15:48
Speaker 2: All right, Larry Stone with us on the air talking some Mariner baseball.
00:15:51
Speaker 5: They got the Angels tonight, and I don't know.
00:15:54
Speaker 2: I mean, I think to answer your question real quick, Dick, for me this has been maybe the most disappointing season ever in this franchise's history, to be this awful in this awful of a division and to not even be really a factor. It's like if you're fighting tooth and nail, okay, fine, but you're not even a factor right now. You're five games out, 11 games under, forget it.
