WEBVTT
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I like driving around with bodies in my truck.
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We don't need to go into why, that's a different show.
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Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans.
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This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why.
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I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is an ass-kicking therapist and someone who knows your way around an artist's palette.
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It's Tracy.
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Hello.
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Thanks for having me, Ken Ross.
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It's great to have you back.
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We're doing this series that you and I discussed at least a year ago, focusing on a theme that we have explored before, which is is there something wrong with me if?
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And today we are asking the question: is there something wrong with me if I just can't find a good friend?
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So I'm glad that you're here to talk about that.
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Tracy, we know a good friend can be hard to find.
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And even if you do happen to find a good one, things can happen which erode the friendship, screw things up, or maybe the person isn't the good friend you thought they were.
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Or life just changes.
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Right.
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And I've been lucky in my life to have made many friends.
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My friend to enemy ratio is quite high.
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But out of all these friends, how many would I classify as good friends?
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Maybe just a handful.
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Yeah.
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And some of the ones that I would are on the bubble, I gotta tell you.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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They're on the bubble.
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So part of what I'm wondering about is what a good friend what does that mean?
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What what what psychologically speaking constitutes a good friend?
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We all need a sense of being enjoyed, of having someone delight in us, of you know, having someone that we feel like to tell our like not so pretty parts to, and they go, Yeah, okay, I see you.
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Yeah.
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And I'm still in, right?
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Or that makes sense.
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Right?
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Like we need people who care about us as is.
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And that you know, it's there's like this lore about the friend you meet when you're in kindergarten and you have them until the day you die when you're 97 years old.
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And that's rare because people shift and change over time.
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Yeah, and I went to kindergarten with a lot of punks.
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Sure, right?
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You don't even want them.
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I mean, come on, those kids were.
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I mean, not as good, no good, right?
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But yeah, so and and then would you say so?
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I like the way you put that, someone who recognizes who you are, likes you anyway, yeah, enjoys you, takes delight in you.
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But I think a big thing for me is that I think people need to show up when they when it's time to show up.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's okay.
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I like, yeah, let's we have a good time together, but sometimes you need to show up for a friend.
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Totally.
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For a good friend.
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If you're a good friend, do you agree that you need to show up sometimes?
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Yeah, and I I think, you know, that's that's to be defined too.
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I mean, I think help me bury a body, that's what I'm saying.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I would totally help you bury a body.
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Okay.
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I'm gonna move on.
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Put me on the list.
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I'm moving you up on the list.
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Good, good.
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I want that's what I was hoping for.
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Moved up.
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Three spaces.
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Okay.
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Wow, three.
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Yeah, it's a big jump.
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Good.
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Would you also help me?
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No, that's fine.
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Don't even answer that.
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It's no, well, wait, you help you bury a body?
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Of course I would.
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Oh, good.
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All right.
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Of course I would.
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Like I thought I could count on you.
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Yeah, you can count on me.
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I like burying bodies.
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I like I like driving around with bodies in my trunk.
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We don't need to go into why.
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That's a different show.
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This is not as something wrong with me if I have bodies in my trunk.
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No, no, no, no.
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That's a different episode.
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Something wrong with me if I can't find a good friend.
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Sure.
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Although those two things may be connected in my case.
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They can go together.
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The smell alone can be repelling to friends.
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Okay.
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I mean, I think, you know, I really am a big fan of the book All About Love by Belle Hooks.
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Okay.
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Belle Hooks, I remember Bell Hooks.
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Yeah, right.
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I think I keep revisiting her.
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She just seems to get more and more relevant for me, probably as I get older.
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But All About Love, I think, talks a lot about what how to define love, right?
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That love is this overarching umbrella, and underneath that are these different parts to that.
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And I think different people in our lives can offer some and maybe not all.
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And like what I think about a good friend is someone who has more of those pieces, right?
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Like trust, respect, affection, you know, uh these parts.
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And you know, I too have been really lucky in my life to have really wonderful friends, the people that I'm like, you know, I have a pretty big list of people that I could call if something went really wrong.
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That's nice.
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And it is nice.
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And hopefully I'm on their list too, right?
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Right.
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Because I I want that to be reciprocal.
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And you know, adult relationships are conditional.
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And that means both people in the relationship need to show up and create conditions for that relationship to be satisfying for both people, whatever that means to them.
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Yeah.
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And I think that is not easy to find because at different places in your life, you may have more time and energy for something than someone else does.
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And you may be longing for a connection that they're not able to show up for, that has nothing to do with you, just has to do with convenience, or you know, you have little kids and they don't, or they have little kids and you don't, or they have a job that has more, you know, you have more time than they do, or you know, I I think especially as adults when we're out of school, then I mean it's kind of like friend dating, you know?
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Yeah.
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You're like trying to first you go on a coffee and see if that works, and you're like, maybe we should have lunch.
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There are apps where you can look for friends.
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There are.
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That's one of the ways people do it these days.
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I I think one of the big obstacles or things that something that gets in the way of our perception of who our friends are is we put these unrealistic expectations on people that we never discuss.
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Yes.
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So I create a contract in my mind for you that you've never been party to, we've never discussed it.
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And then when you violate one of the key tenets of my this contract, I'm furious with you.
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Yeah.
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And I feel like you've let me down when you never signed up to the body bearing, or you never signed up to babysit my kids, or you and it's, you know, and you never signed up maybe to reciprocate some of the things that I do for you.
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Like, well, I bring you food and I cook for you, and I, you know, fix your car and I do these things for you, and you don't do anything for me.
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And in your head, you're like, well, he just likes doing stuff for me.
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Right.
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But we never had this deal.
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Right.
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And and so my point is I think a lot of our disappointment or when we feel we've been betrayed or let down by people we thought, I thought you were my friend.
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It was like, well, we never really agreed on what that even means.
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Right.
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But I don't know if it's realistic to sit down with somebody and have that conversation.
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I don't know how you get there.
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Why wouldn't it be in some ways?
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Like, I think that's really interesting.
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I think that we don't do a great job of that in intimate partner relationships, much less in friendships.
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True.
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And I think it'd be so great if we were to say, you know, hey, I'd like to be the kind of friends who blank, you interested in that?
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Yeah.
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Right?
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Like I have a friend who recently was like, hey, remember back in the 90s, 90s when people used to call before, you know, without texting first?
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I was like, yeah, she's like, can we do that?
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Yeah.
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I was like, yeah.
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She was like, cool.
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I also want to be the kind of friends who spontaneously ask for plans instead of having to text and put it on the calendar.
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You want to do that?
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I was like, Yeah.
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I do, right?
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Like when you were kids and you'd come out in front of somebody's house and say, Can John come out and play?
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Totally.
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Right.
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And I really appreciated that she brought that to the table.
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And I was like, oh yeah, I want to be that kind of friends.
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You know, I have friends who I'm like, hey, would you be available to be my emergency contact?
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Like I I need would are you available for that?
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And you know, that that would mean this.
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Are you up for that?
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Like you get to say no if that doesn't fit.
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Yeah.
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And finding those people.
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And I think, and I'm not saying I always do this well, but I'm saying when I have done it, it feels so good.
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Right.
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And but it is friend dating, right?
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It's like, oh, you slowly build to those things.
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And sometimes you discover, like, oh, we're not as good a fit for going any further with this friendship.
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It it just stays in this realm.
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That is so important.
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I I had to learn that the hard way, but I I learned that instead of t taking a disappointment as a negative, yeah, it's a friend telling you this is the kind of friend I can be.
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Yes.
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So I can't be, you might give me a ride four days out of the week, but I can't give you a ride even one day.
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Yes.
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And it's like you can be mad about that, you can think how unfair it is.
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You can say, I don't even want to be this person's friend.
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But the reality is it's like they're saying to you, hey, I'm a great friend for this and this.
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I'm just not this person.
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Yeah.
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So then that tells me, okay, so when I think of this person, I don't need to think of them as my best friend.
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Right.
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They're just a person that I like, you know, playing sports with or go to the movies with, or we have good conversations, but they're a crappy reciprocator.
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Yeah.
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Like they won't do jack for me.
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And I know that.
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And so they're just not in that space.
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Right.
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So I'm never going to be disappointed again.
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Have you heard the phrase or the term or the whatever?
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The don't go shopping for ice cream at the hardware store.
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I feel like I've heard it.
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It's maybe from me.
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But the like no doubt.
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You know, the idea of like, oh yeah, there are a lot of cool things at that hardware store, but not ice cream.
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Like, there's a lot of cool things at that friend's hardware store, but not airport rides.
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Yeah.
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Right?
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They're not an airport ride friend.
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They're not an emergency contact friend, but they're a pickleball friend.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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You know?
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And it's these expectations, I like our filter for that, I think, can be distorted.
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Yeah.
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We're placing these expectations on people.
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We they've never signed up for them.
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And we maybe don't even understand them very well.
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We just know when we feel like we've been betrayed.
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Yeah.
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So I think what you're saying is very helpful.
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It's like, well, just have different containers for these people.
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Yeah.
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The the, you know, this is the party person.
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This is the party friend.
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This is the movie friend.
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This is the intellectual friend.
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Right.
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And then, you know, maybe it's getting the, you know, three or four of these people in your life that is satisfying.
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Yeah.
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And maybe none of them are are this ideal perfect from kindergarten friend, the person who knows me best.
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I mean, I've seen people with lifelong friends.
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I've got some friends that I've known since high school.
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Yeah, but they don't like me.
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Well, we hang out, but you're like, but is this you know it's funny?
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So I have a friend that I went to visit in New York just um last weekend, and we've known each other since we were eight.
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Wow.
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And I think it's so cool that we're still friends.
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It is great.
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Right?
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And not just like, and I truly feel like she's a friend, not just someone I know from when I was eight.
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Like I really can have real conversations with her.
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And when we do, I'm like, oh, you know me in a different way.
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You may not know, like she lives on the East Coast, like we don't talk all the time.
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She doesn't know all the details of all the intimacies of my day-to-day life.
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Right.
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But we can drop in and have real conversations, and she knows me from so long ago, right, that it's different.
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And I really value that, but she's not my day-to-day friend.
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Yeah.
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And I think that's so in it's so great when if you in whatever your friend mix is, you have at least one person.
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Sometimes there's people in your family, you know, depending on, but is there one person you know that's been around for most of your story?
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Yeah.
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I think that's such a good resource.
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And in my case, there's you know, there's three guys who I've known since, you know, I was a teenager.
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Yeah.
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And and none of them, none of them like me.
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Sure.
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But they have to be.
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We still hang out.
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We do stuff and we laugh and we have a good time.
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And there's just a an easiness to that.
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Yes.
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And no one ever tries to pretend they're something that they're not because we already know.
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We've seen the story.
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We've seen the whole story.
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We've seen you.
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Right.
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We've seen you with your head in a toilet.
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Totally.
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We've seen you wearing a chef's hat and a speedo.
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Yes.
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When you were 14.
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No, it was last week.
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:45.519
Sure.
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:46.399
So that's the weird thing.
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:47.120
That's the weird stuff.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:48.399
But it was hot.
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:58.399
So, so yeah, so I think, you know, I think one solution is maybe, you know, stop looking for that really good friend.
00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:02.080
Or what make that a don't necessarily make that a goal.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:09.519
Yeah, I think when we're adults looking for our best friend, we set ourselves up for this unrealistic.
00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.799
It's like trying to live in a rom-com, right?
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.519
It's like though that's not real, it's a fantasy.
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:16.080
Yeah.
00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:21.200
Would you agree that finding a friend when you're older is harder?
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:22.080
Yes.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:28.799
Because we we're, I think we're more specific about what we want.
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:29.600
I think so.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.840
When we're younger, it's like, well, uh yeah, we we hang out together.
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:38.720
Yeah, we hang out, we're in the same class, we we both have the same kind of interests.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.960
We like this sport, so let's be friends.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.519
Yeah.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.720
As opposed to later in life where you're like, well, I need to have a little bit more in common.
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:47.360
Yeah.
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:50.000
Than just adjacent lockers.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:50.639
Right.
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.039
Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:15:09.600
I also think it has a lot to do with how we view ourselves, how we what messages we give around about ourselves, and how much we're, I mean, how much we're getting out of the house, how much we're being in person with people, or online, right?
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:20.799
Like plenty of people make very close friends, you know, online that they do gaming with, or they have other activities with.
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.039
I think that's possible, right?
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.559
I think people have very deep relationships with people they've met online.
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.639
I think that's or at least think they do.
00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:29.600
Or at least think they do.
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.000
Do with that portion that they're sharing.
00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:32.960
Um totally.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:33.919
At least that portion.
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:45.440
But I think people, I think, you know, if you meet someone online and you're getting together with them regularly and playing Dungeons Dragons or some other kind of thing, I think there are groups that get together and do that.
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:54.480
And and they have real conversations during those games and they, you know, create depth and they share intimacies about their lives.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.559
I think that's a legitimate way to create connection.
00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:02.879
It's not my way of doing it, but I think there are people who find that really satisfying.
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:13.840
Well, and we get each, as you said this early on, we each get to define what that means to having a good friend, because some of us don't want to have intimate conversations.
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:30.639
We want to be with that person, we're playing a game, whatever it is we do, we meet for bridge, we play golf, we we go to the theater, whatever we do, we take walks, yeah, we talk about politics and gripe about whatever, and that's what we do.
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:39.279
There's a group of guys who sit outside my building at this coffee shop every single morning and they talk about world events.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:17:02.799
And I know this because I walk by them and they're talking, but they're they're enjoying it every day, and it doesn't have to be this deep soul connection necessarily, can be, can be, but it can be the depth, the intimacy or the depth of whatever it is can actually be objectively shallow, is what I'm trying to say.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:09.920
So it's just it's it's a small fishbowl, but man, when they're in that fishbowl, they feel like this is a great connection.
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:15.200
Well, and you know, for those guys, like they plan on that every morning, they show up.
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:20.640
They if if John doesn't show up, they're wondering what's up and they're and they're gonna check on him.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:25.440
Yeah, and that that matters, that feels seen, that feels heard.
00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:27.359
Someone's listening to you.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.240
Like that you show up matters.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:47.599
You know, there are people who I know at different, you know, I did CrossFit for a really long time, and those relationships, like I'd show up, we didn't um some of my friends I still have from there, a couple of my closest friends I still have from meeting there, and we are in each other's lives regardless of the gym.
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:55.200
But some of the other people, like I knew them very I see them several times a week, and we would see each other and know what was going on in our each other's lives.
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:55.680
Right.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:00.960
Those were friendships, not the depth of other friendships, but they were really valuable.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:01.920
Right.
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:12.559
I think one of the questions that that one should ask is do you really want friends or a good friend?
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:13.200
Yeah.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.079
Or do you feel like you should have?
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.000
You should have a good friend.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.079
I think that's where I was kind of touching on.
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:31.680
We have this lore or this rom-com idea of like we're supposed to have this friend that we've known forever, and this depth of someone who knows us inside and out, and all those things.
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.920
And I think it sets us up for feeling like we're failing if we don't have that.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:36.880
Right.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:37.519
Right.
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:46.240
Versus like, and then we put pressure on ourselves and we tell a story about ourselves that we're not the kind of person who has that kind of friend.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:58.319
You know, there are the people who have a whole lot of friends that are more shallow friends, or what someone might define as more shallow friends, and there's people who have like just a handful of people that they can count on.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:58.799
Yeah.
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.279
Or I don't know.
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:06.400
We man, we tell stories and then we judge ourselves based on those stories.
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.640
And I don't know how helpful that is.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:18.240
And I think it limits us on being like, oh yeah, that neighbor that I see every day that if something went wrong and I knocked on the door, they'd help me.
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.680
Like that's a friend.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:20.240
Right.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:21.359
That is a friend.
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:32.480
It's no secret that, you know, the you know, people on the social meads will have hundreds and hundreds or thousands or millions of followers, friends, whatever you want to call them.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:42.480
And I'm just wondering if that distorts how we even think about real friends.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:51.119
There's some research a number of years ago that talked about how each person really only has the capacity to have maybe 10 or so.
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:52.720
Yeah, it's even less than that.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:53.599
It maybe six.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.559
It's like five to six.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.559
Five to six, right?
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.079
That are truly clo how we would define close friendships.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:10.559
Because it's it's not just developing the closeness, but the the work that's involved in attending to the friendship.
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:12.480
Yes, investing in that.
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:26.640
If you have more than five or six, that study or studies show that you can't really give them the attention that they need to invest to feel like they're important to you.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.119
Yeah.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.680
Yeah.
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:28.799
I think that's true.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.519
Online, you can do that with hundreds of people by giving little thumbs up and hugs and hearts.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:34.240
Right.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:39.759
That's not a true emotionally connected relationship.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.119
No, you don't even know these people.
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:41.839
You don't know them.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.519
You've met them one time or they're a friend of a friend of a friend, and now they're just part of your big hug heart group.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:48.400
Right.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:21:06.079
I'm wondering if that the social media experience, on the one hand, the superficial connections kind of keep us propelled in this sort of endless loop of checking our phone and make sure, you know, checking our screens and making sure we're getting the connection.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.519
I don't know.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.519
I don't know if that interferes with actually having connections.
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:12.559
I mean, what do you think?
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:23.200
I mean, I think that it can make us have a false sense of connection and actually still feel very lonely.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:24.240
Yeah.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:34.799
You know, like but you could have thousands upon thousands of followers and have no one to be like, you want to come over for some tea?
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.720
Well, and the thing, yeah, exactly.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:38.960
And I think sometimes we get out of practice.
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:49.519
So but one of the things that happens, if you're in an elevator with a stranger, 99.9% of the time, they will not talk to you, they will look at their screen.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:50.000
Right.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:59.759
Because whenever we're in a situation, a social situation that creates any hint of anxiety, we immediately go right to our screens and we scroll.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.519
And we're looking for help me.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:01.920
Right.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:03.200
Distract me.
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:04.160
Distract me.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.079
Keep me safe in my phone bubble.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:06.640
Right.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.880
And you know, I think we're out of practice with saying hello.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:11.599
I agree.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.799
Excuse me.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.359
Yes.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:14.559
How are you?
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:14.960
Uh-huh.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.240
Have a good day.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:25.599
Now it's perfectly normal for 10 people in a crowded elevator all to be looking at your screens and holding their breath and hoping that the door opens on their floor as soon as they're going to be able to do that.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:27.200
And no one will talk to them and they can get out.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:28.240
Don't talk to me.
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:29.200
Don't ask me anything.
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.160
Don't say anything.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.160
And if you do, it's very threatening.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:33.200
And you shouldn't do it.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:33.920
Yeah.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.480
On top of that, we've gotten the idea that we should never be uncomfortable.
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:38.960
Yeah.
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.720
And if we are uncomfortable, we should soothe that very quickly.
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:43.759
Right.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.920
We should never feel uncomfortable.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.359
So the phone is a great self soother, right?
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.720
The screens we can disappear into that.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.640
And it's also a good cover story.
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:59.200
I can't deal with you right now because I'm looking at something more important.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.920
I'd love it to give you eye contact, but I just can't.
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:05.519
I'm so important.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:05.759
Yeah.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.799
I don't have time.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.000
And you see, and it's not just kids doing this, not just young people.
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:10.559
Everybody.
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.920
Everybody.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:13.599
They want to be in their screen.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:21.119
And in fact, it's so normal that when somebody does talk to you, you figure they're about to rob you.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:21.759
Totally.
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:23.039
So you're gonna rob me.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.200
No, I just asked you how you were, you know, enjoying the weather today.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.599
Yeah.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:28.319
Yeah, okay.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:29.440
I'm checking my wallet.
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:31.759
I know how much money was in my wallet.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.400
Yeah, right.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:33.599
You charlatan.
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:34.480
Charlatan?
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:35.119
Charlatan?
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:35.920
Charlatan.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:36.880
You charlatan.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.640
That sounds like a cigarette.
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:40.799
I don't know what I'm saying.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:50.960
So one simple definition for friendship is just find someone who you like to hang out with and you can feel relaxed around them.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:51.200
Yeah.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.759
You don't have to feel like you're auditioning with them.
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:54.319
Yes.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:06.559
If I trip over my words and you're like, that didn't come out right, hold on, back restart, back up, and that your friend is like, yeah, you're a human.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.559
Yeah, and and that doesn't that's not a comment on your character.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.119
Right.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.880
Because I know who you are.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.400
That you like you were a human and your words came out funny.
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:18.160
You have a track record with me.
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:18.960
Yes.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.200
And so your emotional bank account.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:21.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.480
And so you're, you know, you're allowed to have some withdrawals.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.480
You get to be, yeah, totally right.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.319
You get to be a messy human who makes mistakes.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:30.720
Right.
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.240
And I, yeah.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:45.440
I think the other thing is that, and I I think this is true, the older you get, is that we quickly judge, you know, whether someone is going to be a good friend or not, you know.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.240
And they just come in so many different packages.
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:48.799
Yes.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.160
Like we think we want this kind of person, but you know, when we sit around and talk to people, they surprise us.
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:54.480
Yeah.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:06.880
The people we've written off because they're too old, they're too weird, they're dressing funny, they have an accent, they you know, they don't seem to relate to my sense of humor, whatever it is.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.640
But when you really start talking to you, you realize, man, this person's super interesting.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:11.359
Yeah.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:18.720
Well, and they're different enough than me that I have something to learn from them, or I'm curious about them in a different way.
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.440
There's there's magic just around the corner.
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:21.839
Yeah.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:32.720
And you can't, you know, cut somebody off, you can't cut them short before you had a chance to hear that one story that's gonna unlock your curiosity and your interest.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.200
Yeah.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:39.839
So what I hear in there is like, you know, is there something wrong with me if I don't have a quote unquote good friend?
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:40.319
Right.
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.160
It's like, well, how are we thinking about friendship?
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:51.519
How are we giving ourselves the opportunity to connect with people that maybe we wouldn't otherwise?
00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:05.440
Like, are we giving ourselves the space to be curious, to maybe have a friend that doesn't isn't the age or the look or the style or the whatever that we thought we were looking for.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:05.920
Right.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:13.680
And that mm maybe if we broaden our thinking, we find something delightful.
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:14.960
I think a couple of things.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.000
So if you're older, I think you need to get out of the house.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.799
You mentioned that.
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.240
You need to take classes or workshops, you need to go somewhere.
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.119
And if you don't have the scratch, then there's plenty of free stuff for you to go to, right?
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:34.319
Hang out where people are, join some groups, whatever they are, whatever their your interests might be, there's a group for it, I guarantee you.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.480
And there's certainly gonna be an online group.
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.599
Yes, yep, but in-person is better if you can find it.
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:43.680
And if you got none of that, you can always do volunteer stuff.
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:44.240
Yeah.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:51.200
And if you like animals or you like whatever cleaning up trash, next thing you know, you're gonna meet somebody, right?
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:51.599
Yeah.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.759
And then of course, sports and things like that.
00:26:53.920 --> 00:27:00.960
There's so many other things, but you I think you have if you really want to meet somebody when you're older, you're gonna have to get out there.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:05.279
Because when you're younger, you're out there all the time and you're in all these groups all the time.
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:06.240
You know what though?
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:15.519
I have young women in my life that I get to spend time with that has become a kind of a family member of mine.
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:22.640
And she's in her 20s, and she talks about how hard it is to make the kinds of friends she wants in her age group.
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.119
Yeah.
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:28.079
And I wonder how much COVID impacted that age group.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:35.119
I wonder how much social media and all those things, because she's struggling, and I was like, that's so interesting.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:45.839
She and I have had multiple conversations about trying hard to find friendships and having them work out for a little while and then not be a good fit anymore.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:52.319
And so I think at each age group it has its own challenges.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:53.440
Right.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:54.640
Exactly.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:06.079
This idea that we're on a quest to find that one or two really good friends, as opposed to a quest to find some friends and then see how that develops.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:06.559
Yes.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:12.720
Because as you said, you're not gonna know right away if they're your good, good buddy.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.640
No, you're not gonna know that anyway.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:15.680
You hear people say that.
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:24.640
Oh, I met this person at this retreat, and within one hour I could tell we were gonna be best friends forever.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.920
Well, that happens, but it's not common.
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:37.680
No, you don't know until you have you might be excited about that person right away, but you don't know what kind of friend they're gonna be for a long time.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.960
Because you have to do, you have to travel the path.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:42.640
Well, again, it's friend dating.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:50.240
If you met a person and within an hour you were like, I'm going to marry this person, don't get me wrong, people do it, and it works out for some people, right?
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:51.839
But mostly it doesn't.
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:54.079
Right.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:54.720
Right?
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:59.680
So I think the same with friends to be like, ooh, I found someone I'm very excited about.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:04.799
I'm really curious about this friendship and where it's gonna go, and you just gather time with them.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:18.240
Would you also agree that it's okay to move on to certain friends that just for whatever reason the fits just let them fit, and also you don't have to do anything about it, you can just let it fade.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:24.880
There's no well that sometimes works, but the other person may not want it to fade, so they're working extra hard.
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:31.519
Sometimes, and sometimes you have to say something, but sometimes everybody can just agree to let it fade and that's okay.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:32.240
Right.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:33.119
Right.
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.240
Especially when it's yeah, when everyone's kind of worn out from it.
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:36.559
Right.
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.880
You're like, oh, we'll just let this fade and that's okay.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:39.839
Yeah.
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:46.400
And I think that's important too, is to not feel like you have to like it's okay.
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:46.880
Yeah.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:56.960
It's okay that you know you had something in common with someone at some point in your life, and now it's become sort of like an obligation.
00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.680
You don't really feel that same connection anymore.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:03.039
And either you've changed or they've changed or the world's changed, whatever it is.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.440
It happens, it's there's no crime being committed here.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:08.000
No, and there's nobody, not a good guy and bad guy there.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:08.960
It just happens.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:10.079
Well, they're the bad guy.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:10.960
Well, sure, every time.
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:12.720
You're always the good guy.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:14.319
I am always the good guy.
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:15.680
You're always the good guy.
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.119
Tracy, I it's been really cool to talk to you about this.
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:24.960
I want to thank you for bringing your expertise to a problem that many of us face.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:27.440
Thank you everyone for listening.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.240
Please let us know if you enjoy the show.
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:32.000
We love hearing from you.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:40.960
Uh email is in the show notes, and you can contact us on Instagram, and we hope you will tune in to another episode.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:54.960
Because whether you are burying a body for a friend, or just another troll in a twisted DD meetup, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:56.240
Bye everybody.
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:57.039
Bye.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.000
Twisted trolls! Twisted meetups.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:03.759
Oh, I have to stand up for a minute.
00:00:00.880 --> 00:00:03.279
I like driving around with bodies in my truck.
00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:06.080
We don't need to go into why, that's a different show.
00:00:06.959 --> 00:00:11.279
Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans.
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:22.399
This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why.
00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:32.640
I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is an ass-kicking therapist and someone who knows your way around an artist's palette.
00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:33.600
It's Tracy.
00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:34.719
Hello.
00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:36.320
Thanks for having me, Ken Ross.
00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:38.320
It's great to have you back.
00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:49.679
We're doing this series that you and I discussed at least a year ago, focusing on a theme that we have explored before, which is is there something wrong with me if?
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:59.759
And today we are asking the question: is there something wrong with me if I just can't find a good friend?
00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:03.600
So I'm glad that you're here to talk about that.
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.840
Tracy, we know a good friend can be hard to find.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:18.000
And even if you do happen to find a good one, things can happen which erode the friendship, screw things up, or maybe the person isn't the good friend you thought they were.
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:19.599
Or life just changes.
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:20.159
Right.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:24.959
And I've been lucky in my life to have made many friends.
00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.120
My friend to enemy ratio is quite high.
00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:37.280
But out of all these friends, how many would I classify as good friends?
00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:39.359
Maybe just a handful.
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:39.760
Yeah.
00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.480
And some of the ones that I would are on the bubble, I gotta tell you.
00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:42.799
Yeah.
00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:43.040
Right?
00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:44.480
They're on the bubble.
00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:54.719
So part of what I'm wondering about is what a good friend what does that mean?
00:01:54.879 --> 00:02:01.359
What what what psychologically speaking constitutes a good friend?
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:18.240
We all need a sense of being enjoyed, of having someone delight in us, of you know, having someone that we feel like to tell our like not so pretty parts to, and they go, Yeah, okay, I see you.
00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:18.479
Yeah.
00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:20.719
And I'm still in, right?
00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:22.240
Or that makes sense.
00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:23.039
Right?
00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:27.759
Like we need people who care about us as is.
00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:38.719
And that you know, it's there's like this lore about the friend you meet when you're in kindergarten and you have them until the day you die when you're 97 years old.
00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:42.639
And that's rare because people shift and change over time.
00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.199
Yeah, and I went to kindergarten with a lot of punks.
00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:45.919
Sure, right?
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:46.719
You don't even want them.
00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:48.560
I mean, come on, those kids were.
00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:51.199
I mean, not as good, no good, right?
00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.400
But yeah, so and and then would you say so?
00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:02.639
I like the way you put that, someone who recognizes who you are, likes you anyway, yeah, enjoys you, takes delight in you.
00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:09.919
But I think a big thing for me is that I think people need to show up when they when it's time to show up.
00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:11.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:12.319
It's okay.
00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:16.879
I like, yeah, let's we have a good time together, but sometimes you need to show up for a friend.
00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:17.759
Totally.
00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:18.719
For a good friend.
00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:22.080
If you're a good friend, do you agree that you need to show up sometimes?
00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:28.400
Yeah, and I I think, you know, that's that's to be defined too.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:30.879
I mean, I think help me bury a body, that's what I'm saying.
00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:31.919
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.680
And I would totally help you bury a body.
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:34.080
Okay.
00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:34.719
I'm gonna move on.
00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:35.280
Put me on the list.
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:37.759
I'm moving you up on the list.
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:38.639
Good, good.
00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:40.080
I want that's what I was hoping for.
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:40.800
Moved up.
00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:42.000
Three spaces.
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:42.400
Okay.
00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:43.280
Wow, three.
00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:44.400
Yeah, it's a big jump.
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:44.879
Good.
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:46.479
Would you also help me?
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.759
No, that's fine.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:48.639
Don't even answer that.
00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:51.680
It's no, well, wait, you help you bury a body?
00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:53.039
Of course I would.
00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:53.840
Oh, good.
00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:54.240
All right.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:55.039
Of course I would.
00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:56.400
Like I thought I could count on you.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:57.520
Yeah, you can count on me.
00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:59.439
I like burying bodies.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.639
I like I like driving around with bodies in my trunk.
00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:04.240
We don't need to go into why.
00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:05.120
That's a different show.
00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.479
This is not as something wrong with me if I have bodies in my trunk.
00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:09.199
No, no, no, no.
00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:09.840
That's a different episode.
00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:12.000
Something wrong with me if I can't find a good friend.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:12.400
Sure.
00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.680
Although those two things may be connected in my case.
00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:16.720
They can go together.
00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:20.800
The smell alone can be repelling to friends.
00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:21.199
Okay.
00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:27.519
I mean, I think, you know, I really am a big fan of the book All About Love by Belle Hooks.
00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:28.000
Okay.
00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:29.519
Belle Hooks, I remember Bell Hooks.
00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:30.319
Yeah, right.
00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:32.319
I think I keep revisiting her.
00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.079
She just seems to get more and more relevant for me, probably as I get older.
00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:41.680
But All About Love, I think, talks a lot about what how to define love, right?
00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:46.720
That love is this overarching umbrella, and underneath that are these different parts to that.
00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:52.879
And I think different people in our lives can offer some and maybe not all.
00:04:53.199 --> 00:05:00.399
And like what I think about a good friend is someone who has more of those pieces, right?
00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:05.600
Like trust, respect, affection, you know, uh these parts.
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:18.079
And you know, I too have been really lucky in my life to have really wonderful friends, the people that I'm like, you know, I have a pretty big list of people that I could call if something went really wrong.
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:18.959
That's nice.
00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:20.319
And it is nice.
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:24.160
And hopefully I'm on their list too, right?
00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:24.480
Right.
00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:26.959
Because I I want that to be reciprocal.
00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.399
And you know, adult relationships are conditional.
00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:39.839
And that means both people in the relationship need to show up and create conditions for that relationship to be satisfying for both people, whatever that means to them.
00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:40.399
Yeah.
00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:51.839
And I think that is not easy to find because at different places in your life, you may have more time and energy for something than someone else does.
00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:18.079
And you may be longing for a connection that they're not able to show up for, that has nothing to do with you, just has to do with convenience, or you know, you have little kids and they don't, or they have little kids and you don't, or they have a job that has more, you know, you have more time than they do, or you know, I I think especially as adults when we're out of school, then I mean it's kind of like friend dating, you know?
00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:18.480
Yeah.
00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:23.519
You're like trying to first you go on a coffee and see if that works, and you're like, maybe we should have lunch.
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.519
There are apps where you can look for friends.
00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:26.079
There are.
00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.079
That's one of the ways people do it these days.
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:43.040
I I think one of the big obstacles or things that something that gets in the way of our perception of who our friends are is we put these unrealistic expectations on people that we never discuss.
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:43.600
Yes.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:49.040
So I create a contract in my mind for you that you've never been party to, we've never discussed it.
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:54.639
And then when you violate one of the key tenets of my this contract, I'm furious with you.
00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:54.959
Yeah.
00:06:55.199 --> 00:07:10.480
And I feel like you've let me down when you never signed up to the body bearing, or you never signed up to babysit my kids, or you and it's, you know, and you never signed up maybe to reciprocate some of the things that I do for you.
00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:18.560
Like, well, I bring you food and I cook for you, and I, you know, fix your car and I do these things for you, and you don't do anything for me.
00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:21.439
And in your head, you're like, well, he just likes doing stuff for me.
00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:21.839
Right.
00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:23.759
But we never had this deal.
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:24.319
Right.
00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:33.680
And and so my point is I think a lot of our disappointment or when we feel we've been betrayed or let down by people we thought, I thought you were my friend.
00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.720
It was like, well, we never really agreed on what that even means.
00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:39.279
Right.
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:44.480
But I don't know if it's realistic to sit down with somebody and have that conversation.
00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:45.920
I don't know how you get there.
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:47.920
Why wouldn't it be in some ways?
00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:49.519
Like, I think that's really interesting.
00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:56.240
I think that we don't do a great job of that in intimate partner relationships, much less in friendships.
00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:57.040
True.
00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:08.959
And I think it'd be so great if we were to say, you know, hey, I'd like to be the kind of friends who blank, you interested in that?
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:09.680
Yeah.
00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:10.560
Right?
00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:20.160
Like I have a friend who recently was like, hey, remember back in the 90s, 90s when people used to call before, you know, without texting first?
00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:22.399
I was like, yeah, she's like, can we do that?
00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:22.639
Yeah.
00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:24.240
I was like, yeah.
00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:25.680
She was like, cool.
00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:32.799
I also want to be the kind of friends who spontaneously ask for plans instead of having to text and put it on the calendar.
00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:33.440
You want to do that?
00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:34.879
I was like, Yeah.
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:36.960
I do, right?
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:43.440
Like when you were kids and you'd come out in front of somebody's house and say, Can John come out and play?
00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:44.480
Totally.
00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:45.039
Right.
00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.559
And I really appreciated that she brought that to the table.
00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.600
And I was like, oh yeah, I want to be that kind of friends.
00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:58.960
You know, I have friends who I'm like, hey, would you be available to be my emergency contact?
00:08:59.200 --> 00:08:59.519
Yeah.
00:08:59.759 --> 00:08:59.919
Right.
00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.879
Like I I need would are you available for that?
00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.759
And you know, that that would mean this.
00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:06.720
Are you up for that?
00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:09.039
Like you get to say no if that doesn't fit.
00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:09.440
Yeah.
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:10.960
And finding those people.
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.960
And I think, and I'm not saying I always do this well, but I'm saying when I have done it, it feels so good.
00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:17.679
Right.
00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.639
And but it is friend dating, right?
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.080
It's like, oh, you slowly build to those things.
00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:29.200
And sometimes you discover, like, oh, we're not as good a fit for going any further with this friendship.
00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:30.960
It it just stays in this realm.
00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:32.639
That is so important.
00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:50.480
I I had to learn that the hard way, but I I learned that instead of t taking a disappointment as a negative, yeah, it's a friend telling you this is the kind of friend I can be.
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:50.879
Yes.
00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:58.720
So I can't be, you might give me a ride four days out of the week, but I can't give you a ride even one day.
00:09:58.960 --> 00:09:59.360
Yes.
00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:03.120
And it's like you can be mad about that, you can think how unfair it is.
00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:05.519
You can say, I don't even want to be this person's friend.
00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:10.720
But the reality is it's like they're saying to you, hey, I'm a great friend for this and this.
00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:12.480
I'm just not this person.
00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:13.039
Yeah.
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:19.840
So then that tells me, okay, so when I think of this person, I don't need to think of them as my best friend.
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:20.399
Right.
00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:29.360
They're just a person that I like, you know, playing sports with or go to the movies with, or we have good conversations, but they're a crappy reciprocator.
00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:29.840
Yeah.
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.519
Like they won't do jack for me.
00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:32.399
And I know that.
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:34.320
And so they're just not in that space.
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:34.799
Right.
00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:36.720
So I'm never going to be disappointed again.
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.919
Have you heard the phrase or the term or the whatever?
00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:42.720
The don't go shopping for ice cream at the hardware store.
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:44.320
I feel like I've heard it.
00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:45.600
It's maybe from me.
00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:48.399
But the like no doubt.
00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:53.840
You know, the idea of like, oh yeah, there are a lot of cool things at that hardware store, but not ice cream.
00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:58.320
Like, there's a lot of cool things at that friend's hardware store, but not airport rides.
00:10:58.559 --> 00:10:58.879
Yeah.
00:10:59.440 --> 00:10:59.679
Right?
00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:01.279
They're not an airport ride friend.
00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:04.320
They're not an emergency contact friend, but they're a pickleball friend.
00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:05.120
Right.
00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:06.000
Yeah.
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:06.639
You know?
00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.200
And it's these expectations, I like our filter for that, I think, can be distorted.
00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:11.360
Yeah.
00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:14.639
We're placing these expectations on people.
00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:16.879
We they've never signed up for them.
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.440
And we maybe don't even understand them very well.
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:22.799
We just know when we feel like we've been betrayed.
00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:23.200
Yeah.
00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.080
So I think what you're saying is very helpful.
00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:29.039
It's like, well, just have different containers for these people.
00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:29.519
Yeah.
00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:31.919
The the, you know, this is the party person.
00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.120
This is the party friend.
00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:34.399
This is the movie friend.
00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:35.919
This is the intellectual friend.
00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:36.480
Right.
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:46.639
And then, you know, maybe it's getting the, you know, three or four of these people in your life that is satisfying.
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:47.120
Yeah.
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:53.759
And maybe none of them are are this ideal perfect from kindergarten friend, the person who knows me best.
00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.080
I mean, I've seen people with lifelong friends.
00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.360
I've got some friends that I've known since high school.
00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:01.919
Yeah, but they don't like me.
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.799
Well, we hang out, but you're like, but is this you know it's funny?
00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:13.440
So I have a friend that I went to visit in New York just um last weekend, and we've known each other since we were eight.
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:14.399
Wow.
00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.600
And I think it's so cool that we're still friends.
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:18.559
It is great.
00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:18.960
Right?
00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:25.200
And not just like, and I truly feel like she's a friend, not just someone I know from when I was eight.
00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.799
Like I really can have real conversations with her.
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.000
And when we do, I'm like, oh, you know me in a different way.
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:36.240
You may not know, like she lives on the East Coast, like we don't talk all the time.
00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.759
She doesn't know all the details of all the intimacies of my day-to-day life.
00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:40.240
Right.
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:47.039
But we can drop in and have real conversations, and she knows me from so long ago, right, that it's different.
00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:51.759
And I really value that, but she's not my day-to-day friend.
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:52.480
Yeah.
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:59.759
And I think that's so in it's so great when if you in whatever your friend mix is, you have at least one person.
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:07.759
Sometimes there's people in your family, you know, depending on, but is there one person you know that's been around for most of your story?
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:08.240
Yeah.
00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:10.240
I think that's such a good resource.
00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:16.720
And in my case, there's you know, there's three guys who I've known since, you know, I was a teenager.
00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:17.360
Yeah.
00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:19.919
And and none of them, none of them like me.
00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:20.240
Sure.
00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:20.799
But they have to be.
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.080
We still hang out.
00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.879
We do stuff and we laugh and we have a good time.
00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.759
And there's just a an easiness to that.
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:28.320
Yes.
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:32.960
And no one ever tries to pretend they're something that they're not because we already know.
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:34.000
We've seen the story.
00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:35.360
We've seen the whole story.
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:36.240
We've seen you.
00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:36.639
Right.
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:38.320
We've seen you with your head in a toilet.
00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:38.960
Totally.
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.080
We've seen you wearing a chef's hat and a speedo.
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:42.799
Yes.
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:44.000
When you were 14.
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:45.120
No, it was last week.
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:45.519
Sure.
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:46.399
So that's the weird thing.
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:47.120
That's the weird stuff.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:48.399
But it was hot.
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:58.399
So, so yeah, so I think, you know, I think one solution is maybe, you know, stop looking for that really good friend.
00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:02.080
Or what make that a don't necessarily make that a goal.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:09.519
Yeah, I think when we're adults looking for our best friend, we set ourselves up for this unrealistic.
00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.799
It's like trying to live in a rom-com, right?
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.519
It's like though that's not real, it's a fantasy.
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:16.080
Yeah.
00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:21.200
Would you agree that finding a friend when you're older is harder?
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:22.080
Yes.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:28.799
Because we we're, I think we're more specific about what we want.
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:29.600
I think so.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.840
When we're younger, it's like, well, uh yeah, we we hang out together.
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:38.720
Yeah, we hang out, we're in the same class, we we both have the same kind of interests.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.960
We like this sport, so let's be friends.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:41.519
Yeah.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.720
As opposed to later in life where you're like, well, I need to have a little bit more in common.
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:47.360
Yeah.
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:50.000
Than just adjacent lockers.
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:50.639
Right.
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.039
Yeah, I think that's absolutely true.
00:14:53.279 --> 00:15:09.600
I also think it has a lot to do with how we view ourselves, how we what messages we give around about ourselves, and how much we're, I mean, how much we're getting out of the house, how much we're being in person with people, or online, right?
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:20.799
Like plenty of people make very close friends, you know, online that they do gaming with, or they have other activities with.
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.039
I think that's possible, right?
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.559
I think people have very deep relationships with people they've met online.
00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.639
I think that's or at least think they do.
00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:29.600
Or at least think they do.
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.000
Do with that portion that they're sharing.
00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:32.960
Um totally.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:33.919
At least that portion.
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:45.440
But I think people, I think, you know, if you meet someone online and you're getting together with them regularly and playing Dungeons Dragons or some other kind of thing, I think there are groups that get together and do that.
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:54.480
And and they have real conversations during those games and they, you know, create depth and they share intimacies about their lives.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.559
I think that's a legitimate way to create connection.
00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:02.879
It's not my way of doing it, but I think there are people who find that really satisfying.
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:13.840
Well, and we get each, as you said this early on, we each get to define what that means to having a good friend, because some of us don't want to have intimate conversations.
00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:30.639
We want to be with that person, we're playing a game, whatever it is we do, we meet for bridge, we play golf, we we go to the theater, whatever we do, we take walks, yeah, we talk about politics and gripe about whatever, and that's what we do.
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:39.279
There's a group of guys who sit outside my building at this coffee shop every single morning and they talk about world events.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:17:02.799
And I know this because I walk by them and they're talking, but they're they're enjoying it every day, and it doesn't have to be this deep soul connection necessarily, can be, can be, but it can be the depth, the intimacy or the depth of whatever it is can actually be objectively shallow, is what I'm trying to say.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:09.920
So it's just it's it's a small fishbowl, but man, when they're in that fishbowl, they feel like this is a great connection.
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:15.200
Well, and you know, for those guys, like they plan on that every morning, they show up.
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:20.640
They if if John doesn't show up, they're wondering what's up and they're and they're gonna check on him.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:25.440
Yeah, and that that matters, that feels seen, that feels heard.
00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:27.359
Someone's listening to you.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.240
Like that you show up matters.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:47.599
You know, there are people who I know at different, you know, I did CrossFit for a really long time, and those relationships, like I'd show up, we didn't um some of my friends I still have from there, a couple of my closest friends I still have from meeting there, and we are in each other's lives regardless of the gym.
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:55.200
But some of the other people, like I knew them very I see them several times a week, and we would see each other and know what was going on in our each other's lives.
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:55.680
Right.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:00.960
Those were friendships, not the depth of other friendships, but they were really valuable.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:01.920
Right.
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:12.559
I think one of the questions that that one should ask is do you really want friends or a good friend?
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:13.200
Yeah.
00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:16.079
Or do you feel like you should have?
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.000
You should have a good friend.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:20.079
I think that's where I was kind of touching on.
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:31.680
We have this lore or this rom-com idea of like we're supposed to have this friend that we've known forever, and this depth of someone who knows us inside and out, and all those things.
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.920
And I think it sets us up for feeling like we're failing if we don't have that.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:36.880
Right.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:37.519
Right.
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:46.240
Versus like, and then we put pressure on ourselves and we tell a story about ourselves that we're not the kind of person who has that kind of friend.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:58.319
You know, there are the people who have a whole lot of friends that are more shallow friends, or what someone might define as more shallow friends, and there's people who have like just a handful of people that they can count on.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:58.799
Yeah.
00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.279
Or I don't know.
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:06.400
We man, we tell stories and then we judge ourselves based on those stories.
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:08.640
And I don't know how helpful that is.
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:18.240
And I think it limits us on being like, oh yeah, that neighbor that I see every day that if something went wrong and I knocked on the door, they'd help me.
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:19.680
Like that's a friend.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:20.240
Right.
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:21.359
That is a friend.
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:32.480
It's no secret that, you know, the you know, people on the social meads will have hundreds and hundreds or thousands or millions of followers, friends, whatever you want to call them.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:42.480
And I'm just wondering if that distorts how we even think about real friends.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:51.119
There's some research a number of years ago that talked about how each person really only has the capacity to have maybe 10 or so.
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:52.720
Yeah, it's even less than that.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:53.599
It maybe six.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.559
It's like five to six.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.559
Five to six, right?
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.079
That are truly clo how we would define close friendships.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:10.559
Because it's it's not just developing the closeness, but the the work that's involved in attending to the friendship.
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:12.480
Yes, investing in that.
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:26.640
If you have more than five or six, that study or studies show that you can't really give them the attention that they need to invest to feel like they're important to you.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.119
Yeah.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:27.680
Yeah.
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:28.799
I think that's true.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.519
Online, you can do that with hundreds of people by giving little thumbs up and hugs and hearts.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:34.240
Right.
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:39.759
That's not a true emotionally connected relationship.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.119
No, you don't even know these people.
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:41.839
You don't know them.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.519
You've met them one time or they're a friend of a friend of a friend, and now they're just part of your big hug heart group.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:48.400
Right.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:21:06.079
I'm wondering if that the social media experience, on the one hand, the superficial connections kind of keep us propelled in this sort of endless loop of checking our phone and make sure, you know, checking our screens and making sure we're getting the connection.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.519
I don't know.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.519
I don't know if that interferes with actually having connections.
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:12.559
I mean, what do you think?
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:23.200
I mean, I think that it can make us have a false sense of connection and actually still feel very lonely.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:24.240
Yeah.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:34.799
You know, like but you could have thousands upon thousands of followers and have no one to be like, you want to come over for some tea?
00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.720
Well, and the thing, yeah, exactly.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:38.960
And I think sometimes we get out of practice.
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:49.519
So but one of the things that happens, if you're in an elevator with a stranger, 99.9% of the time, they will not talk to you, they will look at their screen.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:50.000
Right.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:59.759
Because whenever we're in a situation, a social situation that creates any hint of anxiety, we immediately go right to our screens and we scroll.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.519
And we're looking for help me.
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:01.920
Right.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:03.200
Distract me.
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:04.160
Distract me.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.079
Keep me safe in my phone bubble.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:06.640
Right.
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.880
And you know, I think we're out of practice with saying hello.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:11.599
I agree.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.799
Excuse me.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.359
Yes.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:14.559
How are you?
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:14.960
Uh-huh.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.240
Have a good day.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:25.599
Now it's perfectly normal for 10 people in a crowded elevator all to be looking at your screens and holding their breath and hoping that the door opens on their floor as soon as they're going to be able to do that.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:27.200
And no one will talk to them and they can get out.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:28.240
Don't talk to me.
00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:29.200
Don't ask me anything.
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:30.160
Don't say anything.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.160
And if you do, it's very threatening.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:33.200
And you shouldn't do it.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:33.920
Yeah.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.480
On top of that, we've gotten the idea that we should never be uncomfortable.
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:38.960
Yeah.
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.720
And if we are uncomfortable, we should soothe that very quickly.
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:43.759
Right.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.920
We should never feel uncomfortable.
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.359
So the phone is a great self soother, right?
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.720
The screens we can disappear into that.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.640
And it's also a good cover story.
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:59.200
I can't deal with you right now because I'm looking at something more important.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.920
I'd love it to give you eye contact, but I just can't.
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:05.519
I'm so important.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:05.759
Yeah.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.799
I don't have time.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:10.000
And you see, and it's not just kids doing this, not just young people.
00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:10.559
Everybody.
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.920
Everybody.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:13.599
They want to be in their screen.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:21.119
And in fact, it's so normal that when somebody does talk to you, you figure they're about to rob you.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:21.759
Totally.
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:23.039
So you're gonna rob me.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.200
No, I just asked you how you were, you know, enjoying the weather today.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.599
Yeah.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:28.319
Yeah, okay.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:29.440
I'm checking my wallet.
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:31.759
I know how much money was in my wallet.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.400
Yeah, right.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:33.599
You charlatan.
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:34.480
Charlatan?
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:35.119
Charlatan?
00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:35.920
Charlatan.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:36.880
You charlatan.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.640
That sounds like a cigarette.
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:40.799
I don't know what I'm saying.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:50.960
So one simple definition for friendship is just find someone who you like to hang out with and you can feel relaxed around them.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:51.200
Yeah.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.759
You don't have to feel like you're auditioning with them.
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:54.319
Yes.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:06.559
If I trip over my words and you're like, that didn't come out right, hold on, back restart, back up, and that your friend is like, yeah, you're a human.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.559
Yeah, and and that doesn't that's not a comment on your character.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.119
Right.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.880
Because I know who you are.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.400
That you like you were a human and your words came out funny.
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:18.160
You have a track record with me.
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:18.960
Yes.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.200
And so your emotional bank account.
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:21.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.480
And so you're, you know, you're allowed to have some withdrawals.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:26.480
You get to be, yeah, totally right.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.319
You get to be a messy human who makes mistakes.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:30.720
Right.
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.240
And I, yeah.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:45.440
I think the other thing is that, and I I think this is true, the older you get, is that we quickly judge, you know, whether someone is going to be a good friend or not, you know.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.240
And they just come in so many different packages.
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:48.799
Yes.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.160
Like we think we want this kind of person, but you know, when we sit around and talk to people, they surprise us.
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:54.480
Yeah.
00:24:54.720 --> 00:25:06.880
The people we've written off because they're too old, they're too weird, they're dressing funny, they have an accent, they you know, they don't seem to relate to my sense of humor, whatever it is.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.640
But when you really start talking to you, you realize, man, this person's super interesting.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:11.359
Yeah.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:18.720
Well, and they're different enough than me that I have something to learn from them, or I'm curious about them in a different way.
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.440
There's there's magic just around the corner.
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:21.839
Yeah.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:32.720
And you can't, you know, cut somebody off, you can't cut them short before you had a chance to hear that one story that's gonna unlock your curiosity and your interest.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.200
Yeah.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:39.839
So what I hear in there is like, you know, is there something wrong with me if I don't have a quote unquote good friend?
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:40.319
Right.
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.160
It's like, well, how are we thinking about friendship?
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:51.519
How are we giving ourselves the opportunity to connect with people that maybe we wouldn't otherwise?
00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:05.440
Like, are we giving ourselves the space to be curious, to maybe have a friend that doesn't isn't the age or the look or the style or the whatever that we thought we were looking for.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:05.920
Right.
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:13.680
And that mm maybe if we broaden our thinking, we find something delightful.
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:14.960
I think a couple of things.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.000
So if you're older, I think you need to get out of the house.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.799
You mentioned that.
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.240
You need to take classes or workshops, you need to go somewhere.
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.119
And if you don't have the scratch, then there's plenty of free stuff for you to go to, right?
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:34.319
Hang out where people are, join some groups, whatever they are, whatever their your interests might be, there's a group for it, I guarantee you.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:36.480
And there's certainly gonna be an online group.
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.599
Yes, yep, but in-person is better if you can find it.
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:43.680
And if you got none of that, you can always do volunteer stuff.
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:44.240
Yeah.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:51.200
And if you like animals or you like whatever cleaning up trash, next thing you know, you're gonna meet somebody, right?
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:51.599
Yeah.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.759
And then of course, sports and things like that.
00:26:53.920 --> 00:27:00.960
There's so many other things, but you I think you have if you really want to meet somebody when you're older, you're gonna have to get out there.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:05.279
Because when you're younger, you're out there all the time and you're in all these groups all the time.
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:06.240
You know what though?
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:15.519
I have young women in my life that I get to spend time with that has become a kind of a family member of mine.
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:22.640
And she's in her 20s, and she talks about how hard it is to make the kinds of friends she wants in her age group.
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.119
Yeah.
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:28.079
And I wonder how much COVID impacted that age group.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:35.119
I wonder how much social media and all those things, because she's struggling, and I was like, that's so interesting.
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:45.839
She and I have had multiple conversations about trying hard to find friendships and having them work out for a little while and then not be a good fit anymore.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:52.319
And so I think at each age group it has its own challenges.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:53.440
Right.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:54.640
Exactly.
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:06.079
This idea that we're on a quest to find that one or two really good friends, as opposed to a quest to find some friends and then see how that develops.
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:06.559
Yes.
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:12.720
Because as you said, you're not gonna know right away if they're your good, good buddy.
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.640
No, you're not gonna know that anyway.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:15.680
You hear people say that.
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:24.640
Oh, I met this person at this retreat, and within one hour I could tell we were gonna be best friends forever.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.920
Well, that happens, but it's not common.
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:37.680
No, you don't know until you have you might be excited about that person right away, but you don't know what kind of friend they're gonna be for a long time.
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.960
Because you have to do, you have to travel the path.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:42.640
Well, again, it's friend dating.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:50.240
If you met a person and within an hour you were like, I'm going to marry this person, don't get me wrong, people do it, and it works out for some people, right?
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:51.839
But mostly it doesn't.
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:54.079
Right.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:54.720
Right?
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:59.680
So I think the same with friends to be like, ooh, I found someone I'm very excited about.
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:04.799
I'm really curious about this friendship and where it's gonna go, and you just gather time with them.
00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:18.240
Would you also agree that it's okay to move on to certain friends that just for whatever reason the fits just let them fit, and also you don't have to do anything about it, you can just let it fade.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:24.880
There's no well that sometimes works, but the other person may not want it to fade, so they're working extra hard.
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:31.519
Sometimes, and sometimes you have to say something, but sometimes everybody can just agree to let it fade and that's okay.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:32.240
Right.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:33.119
Right.
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.240
Especially when it's yeah, when everyone's kind of worn out from it.
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:36.559
Right.
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.880
You're like, oh, we'll just let this fade and that's okay.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:39.839
Yeah.
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:46.400
And I think that's important too, is to not feel like you have to like it's okay.
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:46.880
Yeah.
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:56.960
It's okay that you know you had something in common with someone at some point in your life, and now it's become sort of like an obligation.
00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.680
You don't really feel that same connection anymore.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:03.039
And either you've changed or they've changed or the world's changed, whatever it is.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:05.440
It happens, it's there's no crime being committed here.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:08.000
No, and there's nobody, not a good guy and bad guy there.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:08.960
It just happens.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:10.079
Well, they're the bad guy.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:10.960
Well, sure, every time.
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:12.720
You're always the good guy.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:14.319
I am always the good guy.
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:15.680
You're always the good guy.
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.119
Tracy, I it's been really cool to talk to you about this.
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:24.960
I want to thank you for bringing your expertise to a problem that many of us face.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:27.440
Thank you everyone for listening.
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.240
Please let us know if you enjoy the show.
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:32.000
We love hearing from you.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:40.960
Uh email is in the show notes, and you can contact us on Instagram, and we hope you will tune in to another episode.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:54.960
Because whether you are burying a body for a friend, or just another troll in a twisted DD meetup, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans.
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:56.240
Bye everybody.
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:57.039
Bye.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.000
Twisted trolls! Twisted meetups.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:03.759
Oh, I have to stand up for a minute.
