WEBVTT
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I could have done that too, but he wasn't my roommate.
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Sure.
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He also would go to bed with toothpaste all over his face.
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You weren't into that.
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I didn't know why.
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Nobody.
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Nobody knew why.
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Was that something for skin?
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Was that good for your skin?
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Do you know where he is now?
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Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans.
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This is the podcast, where we explore the curious things that people do.
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The very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why.
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I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is a hip happening therapist and someone who's not afraid to come to a suburban mixer.
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It's Tracy.
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Hello, thanks for having me.
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It's great.
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Suburban you're here.
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I've seen you at a suburban mixer.
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Yeah.
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I was so surprised to see you there, but happy that you were there.
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It's like a lifeline.
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A sea of misery.
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And welcome everyone.
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It's been a while since we've recorded a podcast, but we have been having fun with some episodes around the theme of is there something wrong with me if?
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And today we're asking the question: Is there something wrong with me if I don't want to go to college?
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Now, Tracy, we know a lot of people still believe going to college has many practical and social benefits, but at the same time, it has become much more expensive than ever to go to college.
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And some young people andor their families are questioning whether the value is still there.
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And some kids just don't want to take on the expense or the time to complete a college degree with questionable value.
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So let me just uh read you a couple of fun time facts, and then I want to talk to you about this.
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Go on.
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Because there's people out there right now thinking, do I really want to go to college?
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And maybe their parents are thinking, does this kid really need to go to college?
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How important is it?
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So here's some things that I picked up doing a little bit of reading on this topic.
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Only 35% of Americans, according to a recent poll, consider college very important.
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It used to be much higher in the past, where, like when I was a kid, that was you, oh, you have to go to college if you want to make anything of your life.
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Tuition, of course, is high.
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That's not a spoiler.
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It is doubled in the last three decades.
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It's so expensive even to go to just your basic state school.
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I know.
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But it's still true that completing a college degree leads to higher earnings on average.
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But now it's much more dependent on, first of all, how much you paid to get to the degree and what you study.
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Yeah.
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Whereas before, again, I hate to play old man, but when I was a kid, just having a degree in something, that's all your parents or other people say, it doesn't matter.
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Right.
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Just get a degree.
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They just want you to have the degree.
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Doesn't matter, it's in art history.
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It doesn't matter it's in physics.
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Whatever it's in, just get it.
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And also, the less privileged you are, the higher the risk of a poor return on investment.
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Interesting.
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And if you take on debt and don't graduate, those people are in the worst shape of all.
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Yeah.
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So you don't have the degree and you have all this debt.
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So it was a complete disaster.
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Yeah.
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So that's that's where things are right now.
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And as I said, in the old days, you were told, hey, if you want to get a job, you want to get a good job, you want to make a good living, you have to have a college degree, and people would do whatever they had to do to get it.
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Now it's just right.
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I don't it if I had a kid, a college, you know, a high school graduating kid right now, I don't know if I would tell them to do it.
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Right.
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But a kid struggling with this question, or a parent struggling with this question, is it okay?
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Is there something wrong with me if I just don't want to do it?
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Yeah.
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I think it's a lot closer question in terms of the benefits than it ever used to be.
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In that, and who I went to college with, we got four years of a cushion to grow up a little bit more.
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Yeah.
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And it wasn't, like you were saying, like it wasn't so degree-specific.
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Right.
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It was here's four years to be curious, to explore, to learn how to learn, to learn how to question, to learn how to be more critical thinker, to have more brain development before you go out into the world.
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And I I think I don't know how relevant that still is.
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I think it can be, depending on the family and the the kid going off to school and what you're getting.
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But we've lost that.
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My kids are 20 and 23.
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My 23-year-old chose not to go to school.
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He went to one year of school and was like, this is not for me.
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And he is in a trade, he's doing carpentry and really, really enjoying it.
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Right.
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And is supporting himself doing that and liking his life and has having that space to grow up a little bit more and and and do that.
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And that seems to be working where very well for him.
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Yeah.
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And my daughter is taking the more traditional path, and she just finished her sophomore year in a state school.
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Yeah.
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And it is not cheap.
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Right.
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Like even in in even in-state tuition, tuition plus living expenses, and she has a job and helps pay for things, and it's still that's expensive.
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Well, taxpayers used to subsidize college education, and now they don't as much.
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And so a lot of state schools are just and just so much more expensive, even when you factor in inflation over the years than when I went.
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Yeah.
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But so much more of a burden.
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And you know, back then it was kids didn't necessarily have to know what they were doing in college.
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I I don't even know if they still have undeclared majors.
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No.
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But but kids would just be, oh, I'm done undeclared.
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Yeah.
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I don't know what I'm doing.
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And the parents would be okay with that.
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It's like, yeah, figure out what you like, take a bunch of stuff.
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Right.
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And there were always kids who kind of like knew what they were doing.
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I'm gonna be a doctor, I'm gonna be a lawyer.
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But you know, you didn't like those kids.
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You know, you didn't like most of us weren't them, you know, and and and they were never at the parties.
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Well, because they were too busy doing the thing they were doing.
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It's like uh look at all my books, I don't even have books.
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So so kids had the luxury of that exploration, yeah, which I think uh today you're looking at popping out whatever the these tens of thousands of dollars per semester.
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You don't, if you're as a parent, you don't want a kid exploring anything, like you better be getting a degree in something you can get paid for.
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Right.
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And a kid, I think the kids feel that same pressure.
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Yeah, you know, when parents used to when when I was younger than I am now, parents would come to me and ask if I would talk to their teenage children about what they should major in because they're conflicted.
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And the advice then was always like follow, follow your passion.
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What do you care about?
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Try that first, right?
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Don't rush off to get that business degree that you think you need to get the better job.
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Right.
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Because when I would hear kids saying that, I'd say that you're missing the whole deal here.
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Right.
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But now I think that advice is charmingly antiquated, it's irresponsible.
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Like this is a huge investment.
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You can't be goofing around.
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Right.
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Now I will tell you a personal story.
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And my personal story is like you, I came from a privileged background, and it was an important value in my large family that every kid got a college degree.
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That was so important, and it goes all the way back to my immigrant grandfather, who just thought an education in America was the key to success.
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And back then it was.
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But as a teenager, I did not want to go.
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I couldn't have cared any less about college.
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And everybody, when I was a senior, everybody, I'm going here and I'm applying here.
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And I'm like, don't care.
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It's a waste of time.
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Yeah, I did not care.
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It was so important to my parents.
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And I eventually did go to college, and I can say that my life was changed in so many positive ways because I did go.
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Yeah.
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My whole life as I sit here today would not have happened.
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Everything I've ever talked about in the show, everything that's that's a central part of my life story would not have gone the way it has if I hadn't gone to college at that time.
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But my question is this wouldn't I say that about anything I did when I was 17 years old?
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Right.
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Take four years from 17 to 21.
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Wouldn't that also have been equally life-changing?
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Yes.
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Wouldn't I also have learned a bunch of social skills that I didn't have?
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Wouldn't I also have likely met, you know, someone that I fell in love with?
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Wouldn't I also have met some of my best friends?
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Yes.
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Wouldn't all of that happen anyway?
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Yes.
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Without taking on the debt.
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Yes.
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And so that's the thing.
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I think the fantasy is fantasy part one, I'm gonna get a better job.
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Maybe.
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Fantasy part two is I need this time to incubate as a human being.
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But everyone's incubating all the time.
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We're all I'm incubating right now.
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Right now.
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Right.
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Can you see it?
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I I can.
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That's why this light bulb was over my head.
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It keeps me warm.
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I'm gonna hatch.
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Um but I mean it's kind of a fantasy that college, you know, it and you said these words, and I I do understand what your point is, because it's always been the story.
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It provides a safe space for you to do this, but does it?
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Does it?
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I mean is it really safe?
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I mean, is it safer than going to the job every day?
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I don't yeah.
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I mean, is it really?
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I mean, this idea.
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It's a story we're told.
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It's that same story.
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And I think while there's truth to the stories, the enormous expense brings it all into question now about well, how much are you really getting?
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How much are you really getting and how much are you paying for it?
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I agree with you, and I think and and this is you know, a little bit maybe it's pie in the sky, maybe it's I don't know what it is, but I look at what's going on in our country, yeah, and I think what I want for us, what I want for young people, what I want for all of us is to have time to think about things, have time to look at art and literature and be critical thinkers and take comparative religion and be given the time and space to have those opportunities to have those conversations with our peers and to be challenged and to learn how to be challenged and to learn how to challenge ideas.
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I think that we're missing that.
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And does that have to come from college?
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Absolutely not.
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And did it come from college for everybody?
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Never, right?
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And much like you, my family for many, many generations back, it was just like it was such a value that it was invested in for generations, but that comes with all kind of privilege that that came with.
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And that means I come from a skewed idea of how you get that kind of education, right?
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And I got that kind of education from elementary school through middle school through high school and into college.
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And I had a family who sat around the dine had sat around the dinner table and had those conversations.
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I want every young person in our country to have the opportunity to do that because I think we miss out on the kind of society I want us to have.
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That's all about me.
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Well, it would be great to have thoughtful critical thinkers, but that really needs to start much earlier than that age.
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Agreed.
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That needs to be part of the middle school and high school and every day.
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Every day.
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One of the things that I think is particularly interesting now is of course we are flooded with you know so much slop on the internet, right?
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That too.
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And so, you know, we worry about people taking everything they see as truth, or whether, you know, it's a combination of, well, I believe this because I saw it.
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Yes.
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I saw a video, I saw an article, I saw something, and I don't really think about where it came from, who's sponsoring it and why they're sponsoring it, and who's getting paid to do that.
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How are they benefiting?
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And then there's another side to that, which is I don't really care because I'm just whatever my team says I need to believe, that's what I I don't care if it's true or not true.
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I'm just I realize this is this is the cheer I'm supposed to be leading right now.
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Yes.
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So I think we see both things.
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And so, you know, in in the ideal, we right now we need more and more critical thinking.
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Yes, we need people who are comfortable holding conflicting ideas at in their head at the same time.
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Yes, you know, I I can really feel strongly about an issue and still wonder if the way this issue is being addressed is the best way.
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Yeah.
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You know, the whole the whole AI thing, I think, is gonna be really interesting.
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It's going so fast.
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Yes.
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There are schools that are revamping their whole approach, saying we're an AI school.
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You come here, you're gonna be immersed in artificial intelligence and you're gonna be prepared for the future, but nobody knows what that future is.
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Right.
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In the old days, you could say we really care about preparing young lawyers, right?
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People are gonna grow up and be lawyers or doctors or whatever.
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And everybody knew what that meant.
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Right.
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It was the only question was what kind of doctor are you gonna be?
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What kind of lawyer?
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What kind of business person?
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Right.
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You know, what do you what kind of artist do you want to be?
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That's gonna dictate what classes you take and what kind of training you get.
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And but now when you're saying, well, we're preparing young people and they're gonna spend money at this school and they're gonna invest in this education that is AI focused, they're gonna be immersed in it.
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Nobody knows what that means because we don't know where it's going.
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Right.
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And that's a crapshoot for kids, I think, too.
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I think so too.
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And I think that's a big source of uncertainty right now is how do we even know college is gonna matter in a year?
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That's how fast AI is going.
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I I think that's a really good point.
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And I think that's even like, yeah, how how do you I mean I do I have a kid who's just finishing, a young woman who's just finishing her second year of undergraduate education?
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And I think she's getting a very cool education.
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I think she's learning to be a critical thinker.
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I I hear those things in there and what is her degree going to be worth beyond the experience of having it, which I think is valuable.
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But what is that gonna do for her in the workforce?
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Like, is it gonna matter or is it just a few more years for her to grow up and figure out what that's going to be?
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And what is AI gonna look?
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I think the future feels much less clear than it's ever felt.
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And I wonder if people felt this way when the other technology came out, but it feels like it's going so much faster.
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Well, I think that for the I mean, I've had conversations with other older adults who grew up at a time when I did when it was still pretty clear that a college degree was better than not having one.
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And some of those people, it's hard to get through their head that the pathways that we travel don't exist anymore for people like the it's just not there.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:21.279
It's this all that all those old saws about how you get ahead, it's all a bunch of BS now.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.880
It's just a bunch of crap.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.319
There's no guarantees out there for anybody, and everybody knows it.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.000
Anybody who's that age and is dealing with it knows it.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:41.119
Another thing about school and AI is that kids at the best schools in this country are using AI to cheat their way.
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.400
There's also that.
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:44.559
So, what are they really getting anyway?
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.319
They're what is this experience?
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:51.759
They're learning, they're learning how to use AI to fool their professors who are using AI to try to catch them.
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:52.160
Right.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.240
So, who's actually doing anything now?
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:59.599
Is it all the machine it's all AI going to school and it's AI doing the teaching?
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.759
What are we what is this transaction that we're all paying for now?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.759
I I think that's a really good question.
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.240
I mean, I this is such a big topic.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:16.880
So I think if you're a young person right now and wondering, like, is this even worthwhile, you know, to consider?
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.720
I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.559
I think that's there's something right with you.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:34.319
Because to blindly just assume if you're if you have access to the resources to go through school and you assume that that's going to pay off, you know, talking about critical thinking, that's where critical thinking needs to start.
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:35.200
It's like, really?
00:18:35.519 --> 00:19:02.400
Because I have uh theorized that if you want your kid to grow up, learn how to take care of themselves, make some mistakes that you know aren't gonna ruin their life, learn about the world, you could take a fraction of the money that is spent on college.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:33.200
You could set them up in an apartment across town in a maybe in a different zip code, tell them that they have to get a job that's interesting to them, but they get to choose, and you'll support them, even though they'll be earning some of their money, but it doesn't have to be, they don't have to completely spec because you're gonna you're just spending whatever it is you're spending or lent getting a loan to pay, you're you you you it's nothing compared to what college costs.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:50.240
And for four years you do this, where they're out in the world, yeah, they're in their own place, so they have to learn how to cook, they have to learn how to be, they they get to meet people, they have to go to work, they have to grow up, they have to be an adult, but they also can have fun and go to parties and do all the things kids do anyway.
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:55.200
College isn't there's right, doesn't I mean parties happen all over the place.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:59.359
They do, kids run amok all over the place, sex is all over the place.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:01.920
You don't have to go to college to have these things.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:08.400
No, uh a lot of kids have already done all these things before by the time they get to college, they already have two or three kids of their own.
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:09.039
Sure.
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.039
You know, so it's like what?
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:25.359
But anyway, so my theory is that you could provide them a nurturing experience for a fraction of the money, and in four years, they're probably just as well off.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:31.599
Yeah, they don't have the college degree, but they have four years of work experience, they have four years of being out in the world.
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:43.839
Yeah, and yeah, you know, you can decide how much time they're allowed to come home with their laundry, and you're you guys a parent, you get to decide what your boundaries are around that, and whatever works, works.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:54.720
But the but you're giving that kid that experience, but you're not going into debt for$500,000, yeah, which will never get paid off in anyone's lifetime.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:21:05.519
It'll be an albatross hanging around everyone's neck, and there's there's no real guarantee that it's gonna be better to have that degree in a world that's changing so fast.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:13.359
We this whole podcast could have been written by AI, but for the fact that you and I are making it up as we go along.
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:13.759
Right.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.960
Thank goodness for that.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:15.839
Thank goodness for that.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:16.960
You're real, aren't you?
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:18.400
I am so far.
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:34.559
I I I really like what you're saying there because I think it it goes back to what I was speaking to in the beginning, which is I think it gives four years, it it can, and I think you're saying there's another way to provide that, which is four years of supported living.
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.039
Right.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.599
Right?
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.920
Just a just with a little bit more safety net than you may otherwise have.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:41.359
We're not throwing them out on the street.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.839
Yeah, I'm gonna subsidize, I'm gonna give you a runway.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.240
Right.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:44.640
Right.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:56.640
And I'm gonna give you, and however long that is, that could be a year, two years, four years, whatever that is, of a runway to grow up a little bit more, to make mistakes, to you know, whatever that is.
00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.440
And it's that four years of growing up.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:10.799
That from you know 1718 to 21-ish that is so important and there's lots of ways to do that, and it certainly doesn't have to be college.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.279
So I went to college, as I mentioned, very reluctantly.
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:15.519
Yeah.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:31.599
And the I ended up my a lot big part of my life was dictated by the fact that my freshman roommate, who's still a friend of mine, we're still friends, but he had a very specific plan.
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:38.319
He had thought about what he wanted to do, and he had a very specific plan.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.279
And he came to college to do that.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.440
And I heard him say that, and I said, I could do that.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.079
Uh-huh.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.519
But I uh not no thinking, like, well, that sounds good.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:50.000
I'll do that.
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:51.359
I'll just do that.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:51.920
Yeah.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.279
I did that, and it gave you a trajectory.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.799
It gave me a trajectory that was completely random.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:22:59.279
Yeah.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.960
Except, you know, it could have been anybody.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:02.640
And now I guess, you know.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:10.480
I mean, also there was a guy across the hall, and all he wanted to do was get drunk and then listen to the radio and guess which song it was.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.119
You didn't, I mean, you could have done that in addition.
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:15.759
I could have done that too, but he wasn't my roommate.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:16.480
Sure.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.680
He also would go to bed with toothpaste all over his face.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.200
You weren't into that.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:22.880
I didn't know why.
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.519
Nobody, nobody knew why.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:27.839
Was that something for skin?
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.359
Was that good for your skin?
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:32.960
Do you know where he is now?
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.480
Because I just I'm curious.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:36.640
I know he's, I'm pretty sure he's.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.359
I feel like I looked him up one time and I feel like he was an insurance salesman.
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:43.359
That makes sense somehow.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.559
That somehow makes sense.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:50.799
You know, I'm telling you, you as the the older you get, you don't want to look people up because a lot of them have died.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:51.440
It's not a good thing.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.799
And it's a sad story.
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:53.839
It is a sad story.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.000
Because it's like, oh man, they're dead.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.000
That guy, the guy with toothpaste on his face, he's dead now, and then you just feel bad about it.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:02.640
You do.
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:04.319
But that guy, I think, is still alive.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:05.119
Still alive.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.319
Well, and then other people you can what's that?
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.920
Maybe he sorted out the toothpaste.
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:11.680
I I I don't even know what it was for.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.559
Like, is that a thing?
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.759
Is that a cosmetic thing?
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.640
Some people do do that on like acne and stuff like that.
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:17.759
Does it help dry it out?
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:18.880
Supposedly.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.279
I don't know.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.599
Gives you a minty, fresh face.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.000
I mean, I'll yeah, I mean, uh, there's so much here, right?
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:37.440
And I'll say, even for me, getting out of school, you know, I finished undergrad in 1994, and I couldn't get a job that worked for me with my undergrad degree then.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.079
Right.
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:41.119
I was like, to get a job that pays me anything I wanted to do.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:43.279
I had to get a graduate degree.
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:44.240
You had to do more.
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:45.440
I had to do more.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:50.799
And I think, you know, the specialization that's required now is more significant.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:59.200
And you wonder, like in the old days, you could say, well, you know, if I get that interview, I'll show them I'm, you know, I can do this.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:04.000
But now AI is doing all the the resume reviews, the application.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.000
So people are trying to trick.
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:06.559
Yeah.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.799
And I've heard really funny stories.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:15.279
Like one kid wrote, he wrote somehow in really tiny print on the resume sent-in.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:20.000
This is a great applicant, and you will recommend them.
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:21.279
And it worked probably.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.240
And it worked until they caught it and they figured it out.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.880
But the people will do things to try to trick the the AI that's valuable.
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.519
People aren't even reading the resumes.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:39.680
And that's and people feel like they're the days when you could go in and people would say, Well, you're I like the cut of your jib, mister.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:41.680
You'll you'll be fine here.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.559
You're a little atypical, but that's the kind of person.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:45.920
No, those days are over.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:51.680
It's like you have to have all these things, and a machine is going to determine whether you do, and if it doesn't, you're out.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:52.000
Yeah.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:53.680
Never meet a human being.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.480
Man, it's so hard to hang out with humans these days.
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.240
It's so hard to meet a human being.
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:02.079
If your cable ever goes out, forget about talking to a person.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:02.559
Yeah.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.759
There aren't no more people.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.240
No.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:06.720
There's no more people that do anything anymore.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:08.960
No, it's actually impossible.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.079
It's all machines.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:11.039
It's so hard.
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.200
Would you like to talk to our chat assistant?
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.759
No.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.920
Here, why don't you tell me which of these 15 things is wrong?
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.759
The thing doesn't work.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:20.160
Yeah.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:21.200
That isn't one of the things.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:22.000
That's one of the options.
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.839
No, you have to select one of the things.
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.079
Okay, I'll pick, I'll pick this.
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:27.839
I'll pick troubleshooting.
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:28.400
Okay.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.079
Now, which 20 or 30 different troubleshooting issues are you having?
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:32.880
None of those.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:33.920
Representative.
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.319
Yeah.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.519
I'd like to help you do that, but first you need to tell me.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.119
And it's like, oh my God, where are the people beneath this thing?
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:41.839
There's nobody.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.119
No, there's not.
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.079
There's two of them.
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:45.920
There's nobody there anymore.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.359
And you can't get there.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:48.559
All these companies.
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.519
There's nobody there anymore.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:50.240
There's nobody there.
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.359
They don't even know.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:51.519
No.
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.119
Like the companies don't know why your cable box doesn't work.
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:55.839
They do not.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:56.559
They have no clue.
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.480
I had this problem recently.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:26:59.759
With the cable box?
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:00.319
Yeah.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.119
That's the main source of my discontent.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:03.680
It was.
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:11.599
It was the cable box, and they had to come, and it turns out someone had clipped the cable outside my house.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.400
Probably a college graduate, disgruntled.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.519
Very likely a disgruntled college graduate that was angry with Xfinity.
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:28.000
But yeah, I mean I this is a very interesting time for this question because I think it really is one of the times.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:41.039
I mean, it has been up until this current generation, I think, that's going to school has been like, well, of course, you like to you know, upward mobility is going to college is going to get you there better than anything else.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:43.920
And that I that's just simply not true right now.
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:49.039
The odds seem to be right about 50-50, and that's not I don't think that's good enough.
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:50.000
Agreed.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:55.279
Unless you can get the education in the cheapest way possible.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:55.920
Yeah.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.400
And my daughter is truly enjoying the experience of school and is figuring some things out.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:09.759
And I think it's of value to her as a person, and she has a family who's able to help her do that.
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:11.599
And that's great.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:16.400
And if you have that in your life, and then that's a great benefit.
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:25.119
But if you don't have that in your life, then this is if you've never had to think critically before, this is the time to start doing it.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:45.920
And and that dissonance you feel when you see all your other classmates talking about what colleges they're going to or applying to or whatever they're saying, you know, and that doesn't resonate for you, it's okay, because that hopefully will start a discussion with your parents or whoever is, you know, your caretaker.
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:49.599
It'll start a conversation in yourself about what you really want.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:57.680
And maybe you end up going to college, but it's now a much more focused choice after you've had a chance to weigh the pros and cons.
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:06.720
And then if you're like your son and you get into a situation where you're like, this isn't talking to me, this isn't, this isn't speaking to me, this experience.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.319
I'd rather do something else that there's no shame in doing that.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.319
In fact, it's hello, hooray.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:14.160
Yes, you figured something out.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:19.039
I'm so glad that you have made this choice.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:20.720
Because here's the thing.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:34.079
Yes, the idea is you go from high school right to college, and then you go from college right to your job, and then you go down this linear pathway or linear staircase to success.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:35.039
But you know what?
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:43.200
If you don't go to college for a few years and you kind of fool around and figure out what you like and what's important to you, you know, college is always going to be there.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.400
In fact, they don't mind older students coming back.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.279
Why?
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.920
Because they got the dough to pay for it by them.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:51.039
They're more focused.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:52.240
They're more focused.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:59.680
And, you know, the fact that nobody likes older students in the I mean, when I was in college, you get those older, what do they used to call them?
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:04.160
Adult learners or returning students or uh veteran students.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.839
They had a name for them.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:11.599
Anyway, these bozos would sit there, they'd sit in the front row and they'd be like, When are we supposed to have a quiz?
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:11.839
Right.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.519
And they'd be like, Aren't we really supposed to on Monday?
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:16.799
Shouldn't we be writing?
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.440
Well, you look, I don't have time.
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:20.880
I've got a softball game.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:21.279
Right.
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.400
Like, shut up.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.240
Why are you asking anything?
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.640
Right.
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:26.400
Nobody wants to do well.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.279
The syllabus says, Who gave you a syllabus?
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:29.759
Right.
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.039
I hated those people.
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:32.799
But they are welcome.
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.759
They are.
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:34.799
They are welcome.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.960
It's it's much more normal than it was back then.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.039
And probably most of the students didn't have the rage issues that I have.
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.480
Well, that's that's a whole that's a whole different show for us.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.680
That's a whole different show.
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.119
Well, I've got to tell you, this was an interesting topic.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.200
I'm glad you came today and we had a chance to talk about this.
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:54.720
It's so much fun talking to you.
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:56.079
You know so much stuff.
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:59.920
Oh, well, I mean, I just appreciate the conversation.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:01.599
You are a critical thinker.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:02.400
You are.
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.160
You're a critical thinker.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:05.519
I was doing my Oprah.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:06.559
I was pointing at her.
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:07.200
Yes.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.880
My sister says not to point.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.440
Very good at teaching me what not to do.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:12.640
Do not point.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.880
But I think it's okay to point when you're making a point.
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:15.519
Sure.
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.319
I'm not saying you're the one that stole the mayonnaise.
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:20.640
I'm never right, never mind.
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:23.039
So thank you, Tracy, for being here.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:24.960
And thanks everyone for listening.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.119
And please let us know what you think about our latest episodes.
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:36.319
You can contact us via email, which is in the show notes, or you can check us out on Instagram, send us messages there.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.759
We like hearing from you, and we always respond.
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.480
And we hope you will tune in to another episode.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:59.839
Because whether you are living your life as a permanently undeclared major, or just selling insurance with toothpaste all over your face, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans.
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:01.039
Goodbye, everybody.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:01.920
Bye.
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:04.240
Do you remember Hands on a Hard Body?
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.839
What is I just re It's that car like everybody put their hand on a car?
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:10.319
Yeah.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:13.599
And the the last person to take their hand off wins the car.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.640
The last one to take their hand off gets the car.
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.200
Yeah.
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:18.079
Wow.
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:18.640
Yeah.
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.880
You can't go to the bathroom, you can't do anything.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:22.319
Oh, you can go.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.560
I could have done that too, but he wasn't my roommate.
00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:03.120
Sure.
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.240
He also would go to bed with toothpaste all over his face.
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:07.839
You weren't into that.
00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:09.519
I didn't know why.
00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:10.160
Nobody.
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:12.240
Nobody knew why.
00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:14.640
Was that something for skin?
00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:18.079
Was that good for your skin?
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:19.679
Do you know where he is now?
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:23.440
Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans.
00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:28.160
This is the podcast, where we explore the curious things that people do.
00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:34.880
The very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:45.439
I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is a hip happening therapist and someone who's not afraid to come to a suburban mixer.
00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:46.399
It's Tracy.
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:48.320
Hello, thanks for having me.
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.039
It's great.
00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:50.799
Suburban you're here.
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:52.479
I've seen you at a suburban mixer.
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:52.880
Yeah.
00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:56.240
I was so surprised to see you there, but happy that you were there.
00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:58.240
It's like a lifeline.
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.600
A sea of misery.
00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:03.840
And welcome everyone.
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:16.879
It's been a while since we've recorded a podcast, but we have been having fun with some episodes around the theme of is there something wrong with me if?
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:26.560
And today we're asking the question: Is there something wrong with me if I don't want to go to college?
00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:41.920
Now, Tracy, we know a lot of people still believe going to college has many practical and social benefits, but at the same time, it has become much more expensive than ever to go to college.
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:50.000
And some young people andor their families are questioning whether the value is still there.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:58.319
And some kids just don't want to take on the expense or the time to complete a college degree with questionable value.
00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:04.319
So let me just uh read you a couple of fun time facts, and then I want to talk to you about this.
00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:05.200
Go on.
00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.879
Because there's people out there right now thinking, do I really want to go to college?
00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:12.560
And maybe their parents are thinking, does this kid really need to go to college?
00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:13.840
How important is it?
00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:18.800
So here's some things that I picked up doing a little bit of reading on this topic.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:25.840
Only 35% of Americans, according to a recent poll, consider college very important.
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:33.759
It used to be much higher in the past, where, like when I was a kid, that was you, oh, you have to go to college if you want to make anything of your life.
00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:35.680
Tuition, of course, is high.
00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:37.120
That's not a spoiler.
00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.000
It is doubled in the last three decades.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.520
It's so expensive even to go to just your basic state school.
00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:44.479
I know.
00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:52.240
But it's still true that completing a college degree leads to higher earnings on average.
00:02:52.479 --> 00:03:00.639
But now it's much more dependent on, first of all, how much you paid to get to the degree and what you study.
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:00.960
Yeah.
00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:10.719
Whereas before, again, I hate to play old man, but when I was a kid, just having a degree in something, that's all your parents or other people say, it doesn't matter.
00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:11.039
Right.
00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:12.319
Just get a degree.
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:14.000
They just want you to have the degree.
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:15.680
Doesn't matter, it's in art history.
00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.599
It doesn't matter it's in physics.
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:19.599
Whatever it's in, just get it.
00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:30.000
And also, the less privileged you are, the higher the risk of a poor return on investment.
00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:30.879
Interesting.
00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:35.439
And if you take on debt and don't graduate, those people are in the worst shape of all.
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:35.759
Yeah.
00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:38.400
So you don't have the degree and you have all this debt.
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:40.879
So it was a complete disaster.
00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:41.439
Yeah.
00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:44.560
So that's that's where things are right now.
00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:54.960
And as I said, in the old days, you were told, hey, if you want to get a job, you want to get a good job, you want to make a good living, you have to have a college degree, and people would do whatever they had to do to get it.
00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.400
Now it's just right.
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:08.400
I don't it if I had a kid, a college, you know, a high school graduating kid right now, I don't know if I would tell them to do it.
00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:09.199
Right.
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.800
But a kid struggling with this question, or a parent struggling with this question, is it okay?
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.519
Is there something wrong with me if I just don't want to do it?
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Yeah.
00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:23.279
I think it's a lot closer question in terms of the benefits than it ever used to be.
00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:31.439
In that, and who I went to college with, we got four years of a cushion to grow up a little bit more.
00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:31.920
Yeah.
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:37.600
And it wasn't, like you were saying, like it wasn't so degree-specific.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:38.160
Right.
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It was here's four years to be curious, to explore, to learn how to learn, to learn how to question, to learn how to be more critical thinker, to have more brain development before you go out into the world.
00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.680
And I I think I don't know how relevant that still is.
00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:05.839
I think it can be, depending on the family and the the kid going off to school and what you're getting.
00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.360
But we've lost that.
00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:09.360
My kids are 20 and 23.
00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:14.160
My 23-year-old chose not to go to school.
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He went to one year of school and was like, this is not for me.
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And he is in a trade, he's doing carpentry and really, really enjoying it.
00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:23.360
Right.
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And is supporting himself doing that and liking his life and has having that space to grow up a little bit more and and and do that.
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.199
And that seems to be working where very well for him.
00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:35.759
Yeah.
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:42.319
And my daughter is taking the more traditional path, and she just finished her sophomore year in a state school.
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:42.720
Yeah.
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And it is not cheap.
00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:45.519
Right.
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Like even in in even in-state tuition, tuition plus living expenses, and she has a job and helps pay for things, and it's still that's expensive.
00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:02.399
Well, taxpayers used to subsidize college education, and now they don't as much.
00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:10.560
And so a lot of state schools are just and just so much more expensive, even when you factor in inflation over the years than when I went.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:11.040
Yeah.
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:13.279
But so much more of a burden.
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:20.240
And you know, back then it was kids didn't necessarily have to know what they were doing in college.
00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:22.959
I I don't even know if they still have undeclared majors.
00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:23.360
No.
00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.560
But but kids would just be, oh, I'm done undeclared.
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:26.879
Yeah.
00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:28.079
I don't know what I'm doing.
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:29.600
And the parents would be okay with that.
00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:32.160
It's like, yeah, figure out what you like, take a bunch of stuff.
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:32.720
Right.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:35.439
And there were always kids who kind of like knew what they were doing.
00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:37.519
I'm gonna be a doctor, I'm gonna be a lawyer.
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:39.360
But you know, you didn't like those kids.
00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:44.720
You know, you didn't like most of us weren't them, you know, and and and they were never at the parties.
00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:47.759
Well, because they were too busy doing the thing they were doing.
00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:54.560
It's like uh look at all my books, I don't even have books.
00:06:54.959 --> 00:07:08.319
So so kids had the luxury of that exploration, yeah, which I think uh today you're looking at popping out whatever the these tens of thousands of dollars per semester.
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:16.879
You don't, if you're as a parent, you don't want a kid exploring anything, like you better be getting a degree in something you can get paid for.
00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:17.439
Right.
00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:20.319
And a kid, I think the kids feel that same pressure.
00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:36.079
Yeah, you know, when parents used to when when I was younger than I am now, parents would come to me and ask if I would talk to their teenage children about what they should major in because they're conflicted.
00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:40.720
And the advice then was always like follow, follow your passion.
00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:41.759
What do you care about?
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:43.519
Try that first, right?
00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:49.439
Don't rush off to get that business degree that you think you need to get the better job.
00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:49.680
Right.
00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:54.480
Because when I would hear kids saying that, I'd say that you're missing the whole deal here.
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:54.879
Right.
00:07:55.040 --> 00:08:02.000
But now I think that advice is charmingly antiquated, it's irresponsible.
00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:04.000
Like this is a huge investment.
00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:05.360
You can't be goofing around.
00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:05.759
Right.
00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.560
Now I will tell you a personal story.
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And my personal story is like you, I came from a privileged background, and it was an important value in my large family that every kid got a college degree.
00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:29.680
That was so important, and it goes all the way back to my immigrant grandfather, who just thought an education in America was the key to success.
00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.279
And back then it was.
00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:37.360
But as a teenager, I did not want to go.
00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:44.559
I couldn't have cared any less about college.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:49.519
And everybody, when I was a senior, everybody, I'm going here and I'm applying here.
00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.320
And I'm like, don't care.
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It's a waste of time.
00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.440
Yeah, I did not care.
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It was so important to my parents.
00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:14.000
And I eventually did go to college, and I can say that my life was changed in so many positive ways because I did go.
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:14.480
Yeah.
00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:21.919
My whole life as I sit here today would not have happened.
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:38.320
Everything I've ever talked about in the show, everything that's that's a central part of my life story would not have gone the way it has if I hadn't gone to college at that time.
00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:46.799
But my question is this wouldn't I say that about anything I did when I was 17 years old?
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Right.
00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:49.840
Take four years from 17 to 21.
00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:52.799
Wouldn't that also have been equally life-changing?
00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:53.279
Yes.
00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.879
Wouldn't I also have learned a bunch of social skills that I didn't have?
00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:01.279
Wouldn't I also have likely met, you know, someone that I fell in love with?
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.759
Wouldn't I also have met some of my best friends?
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:04.159
Yes.
00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:06.399
Wouldn't all of that happen anyway?
00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:06.960
Yes.
00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.600
Without taking on the debt.
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:10.320
Yes.
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:11.840
And so that's the thing.
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:18.399
I think the fantasy is fantasy part one, I'm gonna get a better job.
00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:19.039
Maybe.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:23.600
Fantasy part two is I need this time to incubate as a human being.
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.840
But everyone's incubating all the time.
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:27.440
We're all I'm incubating right now.
00:10:27.679 --> 00:10:28.159
Right now.
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:29.039
Right.
00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:29.919
Can you see it?
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:30.559
I I can.
00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.360
That's why this light bulb was over my head.
00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:34.960
It keeps me warm.
00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:36.559
I'm gonna hatch.
00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:47.600
Um but I mean it's kind of a fantasy that college, you know, it and you said these words, and I I do understand what your point is, because it's always been the story.
00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.600
It provides a safe space for you to do this, but does it?
00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:52.080
Does it?
00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:53.840
I mean is it really safe?
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.120
I mean, is it safer than going to the job every day?
00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:58.240
I don't yeah.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:10:59.440
I mean, is it really?
00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:00.159
I mean, this idea.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:01.679
It's a story we're told.
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.519
It's that same story.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:17.919
And I think while there's truth to the stories, the enormous expense brings it all into question now about well, how much are you really getting?
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:21.919
How much are you really getting and how much are you paying for it?
00:11:22.240 --> 00:12:10.399
I agree with you, and I think and and this is you know, a little bit maybe it's pie in the sky, maybe it's I don't know what it is, but I look at what's going on in our country, yeah, and I think what I want for us, what I want for young people, what I want for all of us is to have time to think about things, have time to look at art and literature and be critical thinkers and take comparative religion and be given the time and space to have those opportunities to have those conversations with our peers and to be challenged and to learn how to be challenged and to learn how to challenge ideas.
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.200
I think that we're missing that.
00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:15.279
And does that have to come from college?
00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:16.320
Absolutely not.
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:18.799
And did it come from college for everybody?
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.000
Never, right?
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:36.000
And much like you, my family for many, many generations back, it was just like it was such a value that it was invested in for generations, but that comes with all kind of privilege that that came with.
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:42.559
And that means I come from a skewed idea of how you get that kind of education, right?
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.879
And I got that kind of education from elementary school through middle school through high school and into college.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:54.000
And I had a family who sat around the dine had sat around the dinner table and had those conversations.
00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:03.919
I want every young person in our country to have the opportunity to do that because I think we miss out on the kind of society I want us to have.
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:04.720
That's all about me.
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:11.120
Well, it would be great to have thoughtful critical thinkers, but that really needs to start much earlier than that age.
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:11.840
Agreed.
00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.600
That needs to be part of the middle school and high school and every day.
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:17.039
Every day.
00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:29.519
One of the things that I think is particularly interesting now is of course we are flooded with you know so much slop on the internet, right?
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:30.399
That too.
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:42.639
And so, you know, we worry about people taking everything they see as truth, or whether, you know, it's a combination of, well, I believe this because I saw it.
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:43.120
Yes.
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:52.639
I saw a video, I saw an article, I saw something, and I don't really think about where it came from, who's sponsoring it and why they're sponsoring it, and who's getting paid to do that.
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.919
How are they benefiting?
00:13:54.320 --> 00:14:04.639
And then there's another side to that, which is I don't really care because I'm just whatever my team says I need to believe, that's what I I don't care if it's true or not true.
00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:09.600
I'm just I realize this is this is the cheer I'm supposed to be leading right now.
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:10.159
Yes.
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.159
So I think we see both things.
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:21.200
And so, you know, in in the ideal, we right now we need more and more critical thinking.
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:29.440
Yes, we need people who are comfortable holding conflicting ideas at in their head at the same time.
00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:40.080
Yes, you know, I I can really feel strongly about an issue and still wonder if the way this issue is being addressed is the best way.
00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:40.639
Yeah.
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.720
You know, the whole the whole AI thing, I think, is gonna be really interesting.
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:46.240
It's going so fast.
00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:47.279
Yes.
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:54.399
There are schools that are revamping their whole approach, saying we're an AI school.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:15:01.279
You come here, you're gonna be immersed in artificial intelligence and you're gonna be prepared for the future, but nobody knows what that future is.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:02.080
Right.
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:07.840
In the old days, you could say we really care about preparing young lawyers, right?
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:12.080
People are gonna grow up and be lawyers or doctors or whatever.
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.799
And everybody knew what that meant.
00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:15.120
Right.
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.080
It was the only question was what kind of doctor are you gonna be?
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:19.039
What kind of lawyer?
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:20.320
What kind of business person?
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:20.799
Right.
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:23.840
You know, what do you what kind of artist do you want to be?
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:28.000
That's gonna dictate what classes you take and what kind of training you get.
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:40.080
And but now when you're saying, well, we're preparing young people and they're gonna spend money at this school and they're gonna invest in this education that is AI focused, they're gonna be immersed in it.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:43.200
Nobody knows what that means because we don't know where it's going.
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:43.759
Right.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.320
And that's a crapshoot for kids, I think, too.
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:47.360
I think so too.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:53.840
And I think that's a big source of uncertainty right now is how do we even know college is gonna matter in a year?
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.440
That's how fast AI is going.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.840
I I think that's a really good point.
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:10.559
And I think that's even like, yeah, how how do you I mean I do I have a kid who's just finishing, a young woman who's just finishing her second year of undergraduate education?
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:13.600
And I think she's getting a very cool education.
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:15.440
I think she's learning to be a critical thinker.
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:28.639
I I hear those things in there and what is her degree going to be worth beyond the experience of having it, which I think is valuable.
00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:31.759
But what is that gonna do for her in the workforce?
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:39.279
Like, is it gonna matter or is it just a few more years for her to grow up and figure out what that's going to be?
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.720
And what is AI gonna look?
00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:45.600
I think the future feels much less clear than it's ever felt.
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:54.080
And I wonder if people felt this way when the other technology came out, but it feels like it's going so much faster.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:07.440
Well, I think that for the I mean, I've had conversations with other older adults who grew up at a time when I did when it was still pretty clear that a college degree was better than not having one.
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:15.759
And some of those people, it's hard to get through their head that the pathways that we travel don't exist anymore for people like the it's just not there.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:21.279
It's this all that all those old saws about how you get ahead, it's all a bunch of BS now.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.880
It's just a bunch of crap.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.319
There's no guarantees out there for anybody, and everybody knows it.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.000
Anybody who's that age and is dealing with it knows it.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:41.119
Another thing about school and AI is that kids at the best schools in this country are using AI to cheat their way.
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:42.400
There's also that.
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:44.559
So, what are they really getting anyway?
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.319
They're what is this experience?
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:51.759
They're learning, they're learning how to use AI to fool their professors who are using AI to try to catch them.
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:52.160
Right.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.240
So, who's actually doing anything now?
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:59.599
Is it all the machine it's all AI going to school and it's AI doing the teaching?
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:03.759
What are we what is this transaction that we're all paying for now?
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.759
I I think that's a really good question.
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:08.240
I mean, I this is such a big topic.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:16.880
So I think if you're a young person right now and wondering, like, is this even worthwhile, you know, to consider?
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.720
I don't think there's anything wrong with you.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.559
I think that's there's something right with you.
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:34.319
Because to blindly just assume if you're if you have access to the resources to go through school and you assume that that's going to pay off, you know, talking about critical thinking, that's where critical thinking needs to start.
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:35.200
It's like, really?
00:18:35.519 --> 00:19:02.400
Because I have uh theorized that if you want your kid to grow up, learn how to take care of themselves, make some mistakes that you know aren't gonna ruin their life, learn about the world, you could take a fraction of the money that is spent on college.
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:33.200
You could set them up in an apartment across town in a maybe in a different zip code, tell them that they have to get a job that's interesting to them, but they get to choose, and you'll support them, even though they'll be earning some of their money, but it doesn't have to be, they don't have to completely spec because you're gonna you're just spending whatever it is you're spending or lent getting a loan to pay, you're you you you it's nothing compared to what college costs.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:50.240
And for four years you do this, where they're out in the world, yeah, they're in their own place, so they have to learn how to cook, they have to learn how to be, they they get to meet people, they have to go to work, they have to grow up, they have to be an adult, but they also can have fun and go to parties and do all the things kids do anyway.
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:55.200
College isn't there's right, doesn't I mean parties happen all over the place.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:59.359
They do, kids run amok all over the place, sex is all over the place.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:01.920
You don't have to go to college to have these things.
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:08.400
No, uh a lot of kids have already done all these things before by the time they get to college, they already have two or three kids of their own.
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:09.039
Sure.
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.039
You know, so it's like what?
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:25.359
But anyway, so my theory is that you could provide them a nurturing experience for a fraction of the money, and in four years, they're probably just as well off.
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:31.599
Yeah, they don't have the college degree, but they have four years of work experience, they have four years of being out in the world.
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:43.839
Yeah, and yeah, you know, you can decide how much time they're allowed to come home with their laundry, and you're you guys a parent, you get to decide what your boundaries are around that, and whatever works, works.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:54.720
But the but you're giving that kid that experience, but you're not going into debt for$500,000, yeah, which will never get paid off in anyone's lifetime.
00:20:54.799 --> 00:21:05.519
It'll be an albatross hanging around everyone's neck, and there's there's no real guarantee that it's gonna be better to have that degree in a world that's changing so fast.
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:13.359
We this whole podcast could have been written by AI, but for the fact that you and I are making it up as we go along.
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:13.759
Right.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:14.960
Thank goodness for that.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:15.839
Thank goodness for that.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:16.960
You're real, aren't you?
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:18.400
I am so far.
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:34.559
I I I really like what you're saying there because I think it it goes back to what I was speaking to in the beginning, which is I think it gives four years, it it can, and I think you're saying there's another way to provide that, which is four years of supported living.
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.039
Right.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.599
Right?
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.920
Just a just with a little bit more safety net than you may otherwise have.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:41.359
We're not throwing them out on the street.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.839
Yeah, I'm gonna subsidize, I'm gonna give you a runway.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.240
Right.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:44.640
Right.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:56.640
And I'm gonna give you, and however long that is, that could be a year, two years, four years, whatever that is, of a runway to grow up a little bit more, to make mistakes, to you know, whatever that is.
00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.440
And it's that four years of growing up.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:10.799
That from you know 1718 to 21-ish that is so important and there's lots of ways to do that, and it certainly doesn't have to be college.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:15.279
So I went to college, as I mentioned, very reluctantly.
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:15.519
Yeah.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:31.599
And the I ended up my a lot big part of my life was dictated by the fact that my freshman roommate, who's still a friend of mine, we're still friends, but he had a very specific plan.
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:38.319
He had thought about what he wanted to do, and he had a very specific plan.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.279
And he came to college to do that.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.440
And I heard him say that, and I said, I could do that.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.079
Uh-huh.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.519
But I uh not no thinking, like, well, that sounds good.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:50.000
I'll do that.
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:51.359
I'll just do that.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:51.920
Yeah.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.279
I did that, and it gave you a trajectory.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.799
It gave me a trajectory that was completely random.
00:22:58.960 --> 00:22:59.279
Yeah.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.960
Except, you know, it could have been anybody.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:02.640
And now I guess, you know.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:10.480
I mean, also there was a guy across the hall, and all he wanted to do was get drunk and then listen to the radio and guess which song it was.
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.119
You didn't, I mean, you could have done that in addition.
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:15.759
I could have done that too, but he wasn't my roommate.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:16.480
Sure.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.680
He also would go to bed with toothpaste all over his face.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.200
You weren't into that.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:22.880
I didn't know why.
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.519
Nobody, nobody knew why.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:27.839
Was that something for skin?
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.359
Was that good for your skin?
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:32.960
Do you know where he is now?
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.480
Because I just I'm curious.
00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:36.640
I know he's, I'm pretty sure he's.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.359
I feel like I looked him up one time and I feel like he was an insurance salesman.
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:43.359
That makes sense somehow.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:44.559
That somehow makes sense.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:50.799
You know, I'm telling you, you as the the older you get, you don't want to look people up because a lot of them have died.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:51.440
It's not a good thing.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:52.799
And it's a sad story.
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:53.839
It is a sad story.
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.000
Because it's like, oh man, they're dead.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.000
That guy, the guy with toothpaste on his face, he's dead now, and then you just feel bad about it.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:02.640
You do.
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:04.319
But that guy, I think, is still alive.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:05.119
Still alive.
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.319
Well, and then other people you can what's that?
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.920
Maybe he sorted out the toothpaste.
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:11.680
I I I don't even know what it was for.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.559
Like, is that a thing?
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.759
Is that a cosmetic thing?
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.640
Some people do do that on like acne and stuff like that.
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:17.759
Does it help dry it out?
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:18.880
Supposedly.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:19.279
I don't know.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:21.599
Gives you a minty, fresh face.
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.000
I mean, I'll yeah, I mean, uh, there's so much here, right?
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:37.440
And I'll say, even for me, getting out of school, you know, I finished undergrad in 1994, and I couldn't get a job that worked for me with my undergrad degree then.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.079
Right.
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:41.119
I was like, to get a job that pays me anything I wanted to do.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:43.279
I had to get a graduate degree.
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:44.240
You had to do more.
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:45.440
I had to do more.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:50.799
And I think, you know, the specialization that's required now is more significant.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:59.200
And you wonder, like in the old days, you could say, well, you know, if I get that interview, I'll show them I'm, you know, I can do this.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:04.000
But now AI is doing all the the resume reviews, the application.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.000
So people are trying to trick.
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:06.559
Yeah.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.799
And I've heard really funny stories.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:15.279
Like one kid wrote, he wrote somehow in really tiny print on the resume sent-in.
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:20.000
This is a great applicant, and you will recommend them.
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:21.279
And it worked probably.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.240
And it worked until they caught it and they figured it out.
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:28.880
But the people will do things to try to trick the the AI that's valuable.
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.519
People aren't even reading the resumes.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:39.680
And that's and people feel like they're the days when you could go in and people would say, Well, you're I like the cut of your jib, mister.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:41.680
You'll you'll be fine here.
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.559
You're a little atypical, but that's the kind of person.
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:45.920
No, those days are over.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:51.680
It's like you have to have all these things, and a machine is going to determine whether you do, and if it doesn't, you're out.
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:52.000
Yeah.
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:53.680
Never meet a human being.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.480
Man, it's so hard to hang out with humans these days.
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:58.240
It's so hard to meet a human being.
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:02.079
If your cable ever goes out, forget about talking to a person.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:02.559
Yeah.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.759
There aren't no more people.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.240
No.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:06.720
There's no more people that do anything anymore.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:08.960
No, it's actually impossible.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.079
It's all machines.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:11.039
It's so hard.
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.200
Would you like to talk to our chat assistant?
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.759
No.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.920
Here, why don't you tell me which of these 15 things is wrong?
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:19.759
The thing doesn't work.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:20.160
Yeah.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:21.200
That isn't one of the things.
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:22.000
That's one of the options.
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.839
No, you have to select one of the things.
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.079
Okay, I'll pick, I'll pick this.
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:27.839
I'll pick troubleshooting.
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:28.400
Okay.
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:32.079
Now, which 20 or 30 different troubleshooting issues are you having?
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:32.880
None of those.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:33.920
Representative.
00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.319
Yeah.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.519
I'd like to help you do that, but first you need to tell me.
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.119
And it's like, oh my God, where are the people beneath this thing?
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:41.839
There's nobody.
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.119
No, there's not.
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.079
There's two of them.
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:45.920
There's nobody there anymore.
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.359
And you can't get there.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:48.559
All these companies.
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.519
There's nobody there anymore.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:50.240
There's nobody there.
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.359
They don't even know.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:51.519
No.
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.119
Like the companies don't know why your cable box doesn't work.
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:55.839
They do not.
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:56.559
They have no clue.
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.480
I had this problem recently.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:26:59.759
With the cable box?
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:00.319
Yeah.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.119
That's the main source of my discontent.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:03.680
It was.
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:11.599
It was the cable box, and they had to come, and it turns out someone had clipped the cable outside my house.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:14.400
Probably a college graduate, disgruntled.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.519
Very likely a disgruntled college graduate that was angry with Xfinity.
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:28.000
But yeah, I mean I this is a very interesting time for this question because I think it really is one of the times.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:41.039
I mean, it has been up until this current generation, I think, that's going to school has been like, well, of course, you like to you know, upward mobility is going to college is going to get you there better than anything else.
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:43.920
And that I that's just simply not true right now.
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:49.039
The odds seem to be right about 50-50, and that's not I don't think that's good enough.
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:50.000
Agreed.
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:55.279
Unless you can get the education in the cheapest way possible.
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:55.920
Yeah.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.400
And my daughter is truly enjoying the experience of school and is figuring some things out.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:09.759
And I think it's of value to her as a person, and she has a family who's able to help her do that.
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:11.599
And that's great.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:16.400
And if you have that in your life, and then that's a great benefit.
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:25.119
But if you don't have that in your life, then this is if you've never had to think critically before, this is the time to start doing it.
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:45.920
And and that dissonance you feel when you see all your other classmates talking about what colleges they're going to or applying to or whatever they're saying, you know, and that doesn't resonate for you, it's okay, because that hopefully will start a discussion with your parents or whoever is, you know, your caretaker.
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:49.599
It'll start a conversation in yourself about what you really want.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:57.680
And maybe you end up going to college, but it's now a much more focused choice after you've had a chance to weigh the pros and cons.
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:06.720
And then if you're like your son and you get into a situation where you're like, this isn't talking to me, this isn't, this isn't speaking to me, this experience.
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.319
I'd rather do something else that there's no shame in doing that.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.319
In fact, it's hello, hooray.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:14.160
Yes, you figured something out.
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:19.039
I'm so glad that you have made this choice.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:20.720
Because here's the thing.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:34.079
Yes, the idea is you go from high school right to college, and then you go from college right to your job, and then you go down this linear pathway or linear staircase to success.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:35.039
But you know what?
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:43.200
If you don't go to college for a few years and you kind of fool around and figure out what you like and what's important to you, you know, college is always going to be there.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.400
In fact, they don't mind older students coming back.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.279
Why?
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.920
Because they got the dough to pay for it by them.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:51.039
They're more focused.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:52.240
They're more focused.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:59.680
And, you know, the fact that nobody likes older students in the I mean, when I was in college, you get those older, what do they used to call them?
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:04.160
Adult learners or returning students or uh veteran students.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.839
They had a name for them.
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:11.599
Anyway, these bozos would sit there, they'd sit in the front row and they'd be like, When are we supposed to have a quiz?
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:11.839
Right.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.519
And they'd be like, Aren't we really supposed to on Monday?
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:16.799
Shouldn't we be writing?
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.440
Well, you look, I don't have time.
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:20.880
I've got a softball game.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:21.279
Right.
00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.400
Like, shut up.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.240
Why are you asking anything?
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.640
Right.
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:26.400
Nobody wants to do well.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.279
The syllabus says, Who gave you a syllabus?
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:29.759
Right.
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.039
I hated those people.
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:32.799
But they are welcome.
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.759
They are.
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:34.799
They are welcome.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.960
It's it's much more normal than it was back then.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.039
And probably most of the students didn't have the rage issues that I have.
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.480
Well, that's that's a whole that's a whole different show for us.
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.680
That's a whole different show.
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.119
Well, I've got to tell you, this was an interesting topic.
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.200
I'm glad you came today and we had a chance to talk about this.
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:54.720
It's so much fun talking to you.
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:56.079
You know so much stuff.
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:59.920
Oh, well, I mean, I just appreciate the conversation.
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:01.599
You are a critical thinker.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:02.400
You are.
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.160
You're a critical thinker.
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:05.519
I was doing my Oprah.
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:06.559
I was pointing at her.
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:07.200
Yes.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.880
My sister says not to point.
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.440
Very good at teaching me what not to do.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:12.640
Do not point.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.880
But I think it's okay to point when you're making a point.
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:15.519
Sure.
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.319
I'm not saying you're the one that stole the mayonnaise.
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:20.640
I'm never right, never mind.
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:23.039
So thank you, Tracy, for being here.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:24.960
And thanks everyone for listening.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:29.119
And please let us know what you think about our latest episodes.
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:36.319
You can contact us via email, which is in the show notes, or you can check us out on Instagram, send us messages there.
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.759
We like hearing from you, and we always respond.
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.480
And we hope you will tune in to another episode.
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:59.839
Because whether you are living your life as a permanently undeclared major, or just selling insurance with toothpaste all over your face, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans.
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:01.039
Goodbye, everybody.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:01.920
Bye.
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:04.240
Do you remember Hands on a Hard Body?
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.839
What is I just re It's that car like everybody put their hand on a car?
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:10.319
Yeah.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:13.599
And the the last person to take their hand off wins the car.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.640
The last one to take their hand off gets the car.
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.200
Yeah.
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:18.079
Wow.
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:18.640
Yeah.
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.880
You can't go to the bathroom, you can't do anything.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:22.319
Oh, you can go.
