WEBVTT
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But you know, some kids are bums.
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You know, and and that's they're no good.
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Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans.
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This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why.
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I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is a therapist and a groovy personal pan friend.
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It's Tracy.
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How are you doing, Tracy?
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I'm doing great.
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Thanks for having me back, Ross.
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It's a delight to have you and welcome everyone.
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It's been a couple of years since we have recorded a new podcast, and we're glad to visit with you again.
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Tracy and I have discussed coming back to expand on our Is There Something Wrong with Me theme?
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And we have selected a few of these topics to highlight.
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The question we are asking in this episode is Is there something wrong with me if I do have a favorite child?
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Now, Tracy, we know raising kids is hard.
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And we are both parents.
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You're still a parent, aren't you?
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Okay.
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So it's a job that you have no training for.
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Some of us have actually had inadequate training from inadequate role models.
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Yep.
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It's a job you get when you are younger and don't really know anything.
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So true.
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And sometimes, you know, you're lucky and you get a really great kid and you have a lot of pride and you like showing them off and you take a lot of credit for the cool things they do.
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And then sometimes you get kids who are a little bit harder to deal with.
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And, you know, they're kids I like to call bums.
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So we have all heard the expression, I think, mom liked you best.
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But is there truth to that?
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Do you find in your practice as a therapist that parents actually do have favorites?
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I mean, I think yes and no and yes.
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No and maybe.
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Right?
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All of it.
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I mean, what I find, both as a parent myself and in working with many, many parents and people over the years is that like you said, some kids match better with a parent than than other kids.
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Right.
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At different developmental stages, they match better than others.
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They push our buttons in some ways differently than other ones do, or at different ages, they push our buttons at different things.
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So I think favoritism can also just be the kid that makes us the least uncomfortable.
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Yeah.
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What I read indicated that the research shows that the kids who are most like the parents in terms of what they value and what they believe, and maybe their their hobbies and avocations, those kids tend to get a little better treatment.
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It's the kids who don't cause trouble.
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For the parents, don't freak them out, don't bug them, don't require a lot of extra Scooby-Doo treatment.
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And it's the kids who are a little bit more require a little bit more squeakier wheels.
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The squeakier wheel, those kids maybe are treated a little differently.
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But it's it turns out that the key factor in all of that, whether a kid is actually getting better treatment or not, is whether they think they're getting better or worse treatment.
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Yeah.
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And if a kid thinks they're getting worse treatment, that they're the least favored kid, that that affects their mental health as they grow up.
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The parents, I guess, can be doing this unconsciously.
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Of course.
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Yeah.
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They don't they're in their mind, they're not thinking, I have a favorite.
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No.
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I love all my kids.
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Exactly the same.
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You know, my mother had a really cool, she was really good at this.
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She had a pretty cool trick.
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And she somehow conveyed to each of us, and remember, I came from a monstrously large family, but that whatever our unique thing was, you know, whether a kid was musical or funny or smart, she made it seem like that's the thing she really loved about them.
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Yeah.
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So each kid, I think, had a thing.
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Felt special.
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Yeah.
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I'm I'm my mother understands that this is my talent, yeah, my gift, and she really enjoys that.
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She was good at that.
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Now my father's trick was that he didn't like anybody.
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Sure.
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That makes it easier.
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He didn't like anybody equally.
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Right.
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It's like you're not liked, so stop.
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So stop it.
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You're already not liked, so don't try.
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Don't even try to do anything.
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Whatever your whatever your talent was, he said, stop doing that.
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Don't try and get away from the television.
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Yeah.
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You know, one of the things I was wondering about, because I think this is pretty common.
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I think it's A, common that parents would say, no, we don't have a favorite.
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I think it's common that one kid probably feels that they did not get the same treatment.
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So what I'm wondering is ideas that you might have or an idea you might have for how, first of all, a parent can make this assessment if this is going on in their in their family.
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Um, you know, how would they, how would they go about even noticing this behavior?
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I mean, it's so interesting, right?
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I think the reality is we all have unconscious bias, and we have unconscious bias about our children too.
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And that the reality is we're going to have children in our lives who push our buttons more or less.
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Right.
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Or as parents, we very much want to go to bed at night feeling like I was a good parent.
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Right.
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Right.
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And man, I wish we'd get rid of the binary of good or bad parent.
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What's the alternative?
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Mediocre.
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Yes, we're all just shooting for mediocre.
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Um, no, I think it's, you know, a a parent who is a curious parent, a parent who is seeking to grow, a parent who is has more or fewer skills, a parent who is, right?
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But we may make it binary, like good or bad, then we're we're not hitting growth mindset.
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We're setting set mindset on that.
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And it makes it so hard.
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So then when a child is doing something that makes you feel not so successful as a parent, right, who you know, reflects poorly on you based on how you're like, but I wanted to show up at soccer and have my kid be the kid who was paying attention and scoring the goals and being successful.
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And instead, my kid is the one that, you know, is picking the clover and you know, like sending the ball in the other way.
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And we're like, that I don't want that to be my kid.
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I've got the loser kid.
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Right?
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Like you're like, that's not what I pictured.
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There's this meme out there that's a parent looking down at a kid saying, Um, you know, uh, you're not letting me be the parent I picture myself being.
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Yeah, that is so great.
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I like that expression that you use that parents want to feel successful.
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And when they're a their a kid isn't meeting that expectation, then they feel like they're not being successful.
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So it's it's stressful for the parent at that level, stressful for the kid too.
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Yeah, and then you don't like that child as much.
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Ooh.
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Right?
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Like you're like, oof, this is the child that's difficult.
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It's like, oh, well, what's happening is you're having emotional difficulty looking in the mirror of this child and deciding it means something about you.
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Because society says that it does, and our parents say it does, and the story we're given says it does, where the reality is it only partly does.
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Well, and and part of it, too, is we get so caught up in, you know, we talk about these expectations for our kids, which were really those kind of expectations, really, are for ourselves.
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Yes.
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And we and we get so caught up in the kid manifesting this that we actually lose sight of who the kid is.
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Exactly.
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So I had a daughter who still do, uh, but when they were little, they went to their first Easter egg hunt, and as soon as they, you know, rang the bell or blew the air horn or whatever they do to get the kids going, every kid went off like a wolverine on a bender.
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And my kid is sitting there just watching it happen, and then slowly walking over, you know, like a sloth and finding one egg and slowly putting it in their basket.
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And I'm like, hey, you gotta run around.
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You're not gonna get anything.
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And they didn't care about getting anything.
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No, but they're happy with one thing.
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Yes.
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I think it's exactly that, right?
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Or uh, you know, um, I know for me, I have, you know, my oldest is dancing to the beat of his own drummer in a lot of ways.
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And post-high school, he decided not to go to college like everybody else did.
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And there's one part of me that was like, yes, I think that's exactly, you should do exactly that.
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And then there was this other part of me that was handed down by my parents, by society, by a whole other, you know, that would told me that that was not the way that was supposed to go, and that I should be doing something to have this young adult do something different than what he was trying to listen to himself doing.
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And I've had to really look at that and challenge myself in that and have my own growth in that to be like he's finding his path.
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Let him do that.
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Like that's what needs to happen.
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And part of me was able to do that, and part of me was judging that, and part of it was like quite the thing.
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And I he's doing great, and he he's he's has a satisfying life that he really likes, yeah, and he's a lovely human, and you know, he's 23.
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Who knows what I don't know where that's going, but it's going to prison, Tracy.
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That's where it goes.
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All the way.
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And if it does, I will judge myself harshly.
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Oh, well, see, I'm just joking, of course, at least 50% joking.
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I wanted to say that I have met this person in real life, and you know, one of the things that we do to ourselves is not only do we have expectations for the kid that are reflections of our expectations, expectations for ourselves and what we think it should look like, which is a reflection of what we think others are gonna think.
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And when you told me that he was not going to college and he was going to pursue an alternative path or paths, having met him, I said, Oh, that's cool.
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Like I thought that that's totally on brand, totally makes sense.
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And it was not, I didn't have the slightest thought of, oh, you have screwed up, Tracy.
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This kid is really needs to be reined in.
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You really need to put the clamps down and start making threats.
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So, so that's a whole nother piece of it, is that that people, you don't even really know how people are seeing your parenting based on the kids' uh choices.
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And some parents, you know, I've been to playgrounds.
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Yes, you know, I've done that.
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Yeah, I've seen kids.
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So yeah.
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Some kids are bums.
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You know it's not the parents' fault.
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You blame the parents if they can't like keep the kid from sure messing up everyone else's day.
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Sure.
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But that's a different problem.
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Sure.
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That's a whole different problem.
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That's not what this show is about.
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Right.
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But, you know, some kids are bums.
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You know, and and that's they're no good.
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It is like a parent's fault.
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You know, like it's so interesting.
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Like, every kid has their own because you do, you look at those kids, and and you've been, you've, you're a parent of adult children.
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I'm a parent of adult children, and I've seen so many of the kids they grew up with grow up.
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And you meet those kids when they're three, four, five, seven, eight, whatever, and you're like, oh, that kid is struggling.
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Oh, that kid's having a hard time.
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Oh, that kid has a lot to learn, you know, in a lot of ways.
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And then you meet them in their 20s, and you're like, oh, look at you.
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You grew into yourself.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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And you know, you're like, oh, I remember you at five, like, you know, shoving everybody down on the playground and just being so challenging to be around and parents trying so hard.
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And you know you have a face tattoo.
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Exactly, but you like it.
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And, you know, and and you work as a tattoo artist.
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Right.
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And it works for you, and you found a path, right?
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We found a path.
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And I love that.
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Right.
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And I I understand.
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That is that is true.
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You know, and or some kids just struggle and they didn't go down a path that worked out well for them.
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And and you have sadness about that.
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Right.
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Right.
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And you're like, oh, that must be so hard to be that kid's parent because you did all the things you knew how, and it still went sideways.
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And that's got to be incredibly hard.
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I'm gratefully not the parent of those kids.
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But you know, that that's so painful when that happens.
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And I think going back to the favoritism piece, like I I love what your mom did.
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What I used to do when my kids were little, and I coach other parents to do is I say, I said to my kids, I was like, you know, um, you know, we all have hearts that are as big as they need to be for all the people we care about.
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And each person for me has a spot kind of like a cookie cutter shape that's shaped just like them, that's not shaped like anybody else.
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Yeah.
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And so that cookie cutter spot, like your brother can't fit in there because it's yours shape.
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Right.
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And you can't fit in your brother's spot because that's his shape.
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Right.
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And so it's just like I know I don't love you the same because you're not the same people.
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Yeah.
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And what I used to say to my kids too, which they remember, they'd be like, that's not fair.
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And I was like, ooh, see, I wasn't going for fair.
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I was going for what was the right thing for you and what was the right thing for him, and those are different things.
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Right.
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So I just kind of like undercut, I was like, oh, that's not an expectation.
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Right.
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Like it's not going to be exactly fair.
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I'm not saying I love you the same.
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I'm saying, of course I love you differently because I couldn't possibly.
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And I think when we go around that, then we can say it authentically.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Because if we're a parent who in our head is like, yeah, you are harder than your brother.
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And you're like, you don't love me the same.
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And you're like, that's true in your own head, right?
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By the time kids get to, I think it's around seven, they can read inauthenticity.
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And so when we say things to them that are inauthentic, they can read it and they don't believe us.
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Right.
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So we want to think about ways we can say things that are authentic.
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So if we're never saying I love you the same, and we're saying, Of course I don't love you the same.
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I love you because of you.
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You're your shape.
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Right.
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And I love your brother his shape.
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I couldn't possibly love you exactly the same because you're different people.
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Yeah, I mean, that's it's so elegant in a in a intellectual sense because it's simple.
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It's true.
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Uh-huh.
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The kid can understand it.
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Yep.
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And I'm going back again and doubling down on it's true.
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Yes.
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You're making clear exactly how you think about them, and you're reinforcing their individuality as a human being, and you're not making your love conditional upon them meeting some sort of uniform standard that all the kids, you know, have to meet.
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Exactly.
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My parent, and my dad in particular was always wondering why I was not like the other kids.
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Yeah.
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And so, you know, that's that's one of I think one of the byproducts of that kind of thinking is that, well, why would I be like why would any of us be like each other?
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Well, and I think it helps get in the way of the competition too.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.720
Um, because you're like, oh, you're not competing with them.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:56.480
There's there is no competition.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:57.039
Right.
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:57.519
Right.
00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:58.399
Of course there's some.
00:16:58.559 --> 00:16:59.600
I mean, it's inherent, right?
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:00.240
All the things.
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.559
But I think as parents, if we can come in, I also think it lets us off the hook.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:25.200
Because if at different times, because I know with my kids, and I would think with yours too, at different times based on where they were developmentally or what was going on for them, or what was going on with me in my life and all different things, then um like there one kid was easier than the other at different times.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.079
And that ebbed and flowed based on what was going on with them and what was going on with me.
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:35.519
Um and so it it gave me permission to have that be okay.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:36.480
Yes.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.039
Yeah, no, I really, really like that.
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:50.079
And and that's something I think that's advice that people can implement without, you know, reading a ton of books or going to hours of therapy.
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:58.720
My first kid was easy, at least in the sense that they didn't create trouble.
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.759
They wanted to please so classic firstborn.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:18.000
But later on, you know, the fact that they were internalizing a lot of things and just, you know, the Easter egg thing was a good story, but I had to learn who they were as a kid and realize that was okay.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:20.240
I actually had to say, Oh, they're not like me.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:20.720
Right.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.519
But that's okay.
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:22.000
Yeah.
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:32.160
The second one was a lot more like me in some ways, but she was uh very stubborn and headstrong.
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:39.039
And I remember uh she was just a little kid, she might have been five or six, and she was just being so stubborn about something.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.799
And I said, you know, I really like this quality.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.920
It's gonna serve you well in your life, just not now.
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:54.400
Because she feels to this day that she was treated differently than the older one.
00:18:54.480 --> 00:19:17.680
But it makes sense using this rubric of whether, you know, the kid that perceives that they were treated differently, even if they weren't, even if they got as much attention or more, even if they got as much love or more, if they feel they were treated differently and were not as favored, that's what creates the collateral damage.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:18.240
Yeah.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.039
And I looked up some of the things.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:46.480
Kids who believe they were disfavored suffer more mental health consequences, and it's that their perception that they were treated differently is a stronger predictor than almost any factor measured in studies, including their employment, their age, marital status, all these things that would influence your mental health as an adult.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:56.400
The perception that they have of being the unfavored child in a family is one of the strongest predictors of the struggle they're having now.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.839
That makes a lot of sense to me.
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:06.400
Because when we look at all of that, what kids need to feel, what we all need to feel, but kids in particular as they're growing, they need to feel a sense of belonging.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:09.359
They need to feel a sense of I'm a part of this group.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.720
I belong in this family, I am loved and cared for for exactly who I am.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:29.200
And if you feel like you are not the favored child or that you're being treated differently, then you would feel less a sense of belonging in that group and that you would have had to fight to be seen for who you are or whatever.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:43.839
So that would um impact your self-concept, which then impacts how you see yourself, which impacts the choices you give yourself and how you see friendships and relationships and um and that impacts us for a long time.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:44.559
Yeah.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.880
Yeah, it's really, it's really um, I was really fascinated to see that.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:21:05.920
And and in the sense that it I think it's in parents, um, it's important for parents to understand that it's less about what they're doing, it's how the kid is perceiving it.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:12.799
So if a kid says that they're feeling that they're disfavored, it shouldn't be just, oh no, no, no, no.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.960
Yeah, I was about to say exactly that.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:22.640
I think one of the things that parents do a lot of times, that there's a real misstep, is when a kid says, You're treating me differently.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.160
The parent says, No, I'm not.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:30.960
I gave you the exact same, they start proving why they didn't, versus saying, Oh, that's a really hard way to feel.
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:32.160
Yeah.
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.119
That must that's really tough to feel that way.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.839
That must really sit in your body like that.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:38.960
Oh, man.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:39.200
Yeah.
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.079
That's so tricky.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.039
Would you like a hug?
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:42.640
And then they'll say, Well, why?
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.200
Why can't I be treated the same as the other kid?
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.680
And you say, Oh, so you're feeling like you're really treated differently.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.119
Tell me more about that.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:52.880
Where do you notice that?
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.759
Well, for one, these shackles.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:56.319
Right.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.759
And you're like, Oh, so you're feeling like if both of you had shackles.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.039
On that would feel better.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:01.599
Right?
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.839
I mean, it's really reflective listening.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:04.240
Yeah.
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.720
Right?
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.000
It's the classic stuff.
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:11.599
If if people have young kids and you haven't read How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk, please do.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:12.400
It's a classic.
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:12.799
Okay.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:14.799
It's so good and out there.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:27.119
And then another one that helps with this kind of thing is the Tina Payne Bryson and Dan Siegel series of books that starts with the whole brain child, um, drama-free discipline, like all of that stuff.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:33.920
It's um their books are so good and give scripting for a lot of this stuff that helps um kids.
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:38.880
And then um for tweens and teens, I really like Lisa Damore.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:44.240
She just wrote The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, um, and she wrote Untangled for Tween Girls.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:52.480
Like, and she has a great podcast called Ask Lisa, but more of that stuff around that scripting and how to think about that and how to talk to kids around that.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:58.319
Um, because it really is parents will want to prove to the kid why they're not being treated differently, right?
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.000
Versus just be like, you feel like you're being treated differently.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.759
Yeah, it's a real trap to to to buy into that.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.079
And I don't know where that came from.
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.559
I really don't know what when we started saying we love everybody the same.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.240
I don't know how long this has been going on.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:15.759
I don't know if parents have always said that.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:20.079
I think when my everybody was working on a farm, they didn't have a like they had kids to work.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:20.559
Yes.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:21.680
That's why they had kids.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:24.319
You're gonna go out there and do something with a pig.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:24.880
Yes.
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.440
You know, you're gonna go out there and chase a cow.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:27.920
Yes.
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.759
You're gonna go out and get another pig.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:30.960
It was just pigs and cows.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:31.599
It was only that.
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:35.359
And then sometimes an ear of corn would mix in the hay baleing.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.400
Chicken here or there.
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:45.039
You could tell I did not do this, but but they had kids to work, and I don't know if this topic would ever come up, but maybe it would.
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:46.160
Who knows?
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:51.119
But I think those kids still felt the things, they just didn't talk about them.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.319
So here's a question.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:53.039
Yes.
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:59.680
If and I like everything you presented, and thanks for listing those references because people can look those up.
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:07.920
But I'm wondering, let's say you're you have kids at home, um, and you're and everything seems to be going great.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:08.480
Yeah.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.160
Kids are not saying anything about, hey, I'm not being treated fairly.
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.880
In fact, you're telling you, what a loving family.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:16.880
And I'm so lucky to have you as parents.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:17.440
And gosh.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.279
What is the Stepford family you're describing?
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.640
Yeah, but anyway, let's assume that things seem okay.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:23.519
All right.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:28.000
Should parents address it anyway investigate this?
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:46.079
Oh, I wouldn't say do you ever feel not treated fairly, but I would, from the time they're little, talk about um there's a there's also a great book called Siblings Without Rivalry that's written by the same people that do um how to talk so kids will listen and listen, so kids will talk.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:46.960
There it's great.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:53.119
And it talks a little siblings without rivalry and it talks about the same, I can't remember the authors right now, but you can look it up.
00:24:53.359 --> 00:25:06.240
Um I think I really love just bringing things up to kids and saying things like, Do you know that my heart and all of us have hearts?
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.119
Like, describe it.
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:08.799
Do you know that there's a cookie cutter?
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.279
Like from the time they're tiny, right?
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.200
Do you know that you're the shape right here?
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.359
You're right here in my heart, this shape.
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.240
You're sending up the concept for literally.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:27.200
And do you know that your other parent, mom, dad, whoever is that shape, and grandma and aunt so-and-so, and your brother, and I have shapes for all these people.
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:28.880
What shapes do you have in your heart?
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:30.240
Who, who, who's in there?
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:31.599
What shapes are they?
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.079
Right.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:32.559
Right?
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:38.240
And so you're setting up the concept from the get-go, so you're not coming in behind it so much.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.279
And you have shapes for your friends at school and for your teacher.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:42.640
Like we have all these shapes.
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:43.759
Look how big our hearts are.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:45.440
They're big enough for all those shapes.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.920
I want, he got four grapes.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:49.039
I want four grapes.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:50.880
You're like, oh, is it important?
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.720
Do you have the exact same number?
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:53.680
Right?
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:54.400
Yeah.
00:25:54.640 --> 00:26:05.759
Um, oh, that feels important to you as kids are learning about playing games and winning and losing, and you know, how to be a good sport and how to enjoy all of those things.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:09.279
This is all relative to it because it's a scarcity idea.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.720
Like, I need to have the same amount as someone else, or what?
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.759
Right.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:14.480
Right?
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.359
Um yeah, grapes are delicious.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.039
You want to have four also?
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:20.079
Let's count them out.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:20.960
Right?
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:22.400
He got two more.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:23.200
That's true.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:24.799
His body needed those.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:26.640
Right.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:27.680
Right.
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.599
And like, oh, do you want to count?
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.119
Yeah, how many goldfish do you have?
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:31.839
You're counting.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.039
You have different numbers.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.160
I want the same.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:35.359
Well, you have different.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:41.440
You would have been so helpful uh uh in our family as we were growing up.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.279
Because it was kind of a Lord of the Flies.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:44.960
Yeah.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.319
It was, you know, well, we'll see if you survive.
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:48.799
Yeah.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:49.839
I mean, get in there.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:53.519
You can you better be different.
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:54.880
You better be strong.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:57.039
You better stand out.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.119
There's only a limited amount of food.
00:26:59.359 --> 00:26:59.920
Totally.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.160
Um, but oh, that would have been so helpful.
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:07.839
Yeah, because I think, you know, I think we all believe that we were competing with each other.
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:08.319
Yes.
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.960
And it's taken us decades to get around that.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.440
And, you know, we still get a little crazy when at the dinner table.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:17.920
Sure.
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:29.920
Even as adults, we kind of look around, we kind of look at everybody, we size up the how much food is available, and then you know, we're two clicks from scrumming over the food, you know, like knocking each other out.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:31.759
I don't think that's uncommon.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.200
And I think parents a lot of times don't know what to do with that.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:36.000
Yeah.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:41.680
And it's not actually I mean, it's it's not easy, but it is simple.
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.880
Well, this has been really great.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:51.359
I really appreciate you um being here today to talk about this topic because I think it's interesting.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:52.880
It's an interesting thing.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:59.599
It's it's sort of like always a little joke, oh, mom liked you best, or I was always the black sheep in my family, whatever people say.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:08.400
And and and maybe, you know, maybe it was meant in humor, but I think a lot of times people don't feel like they were loved the same way.
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.119
And I think it's something that parents don't think about.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.559
If they do think about it, they don't talk about it in a way that's helpful.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:28.720
And you've very quickly just laid out a really nice simple way for parents to talk to their kids and to create a a, you know, a structure for them where they can think about how it works.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:44.240
How because you're not only teaching them how you love them individually, but you're teaching them later in life, you know, you know, your value is not going to be the same to everyone in in exactly the same way.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:44.880
Yeah.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.559
Because that's the truth.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:47.039
Yes.
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:48.000
Because guess what?
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:53.440
In the real world, right, you might not even be a cookie shape in somebody's heart.
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:54.000
Right.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.119
Even if you want to be.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.000
You might want to be a cookie shape, and they're saying you're not a shortcut.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.920
No, thanks, you're certain you don't fit there.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.240
You're not a cookie and you have no shape.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:03.359
No, nothing.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.480
No shape, no cookie, you are nothing to me.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.920
And they have to be like, oh, okay.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:12.400
Yeah, they have to realize like that's okay too.
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:17.279
And that is fine and painful at the same time.
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:22.480
Yeah, but but it's less about their you being less than.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.200
Yes.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.480
It's not about that.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.039
And that's such an important lesson for people to learn.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:34.160
And we're such in a hurry, I think, to make kids feel good all the time and protect them.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:34.960
Yes.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:39.279
And we actually end up setting them up for uh hardship sometimes.
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:39.920
I think so.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:41.839
Well, thanks very much for being here.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.039
And thank you everyone for listening to this episode.
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:46.640
We'll do a few more of those.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.200
Yeah.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:48.160
If you don't mind.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:48.799
I'd love it.
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:50.319
Come back and do some more.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:59.920
Um, and you know, if you're out there and you're listening to us and you say, Oh my goodness, these guys are doing new episodes, uh, feel free to contact us via email.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.799
The emails in the show notes, and let us know your thoughts about what you're hearing.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:25.440
We always enjoy hearing from you, and we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are a kid who sucks at Easter egg hunting or just someone who has no cookie shape, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.799
Goodbye, everybody.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:27.759
Bye.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:29.359
Uh, sexy.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:30.480
Yeah, it's very moody.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:31.440
It's very moody.
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:32.720
It's okay for me right now.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:33.440
It works for me.
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.119
I'm not looking at anything except Ross, and I love mood lighting on Ross.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:40.160
I'm much better with dim lighting.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080
But you know, some kids are bums.
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:06.240
You know, and and that's they're no good.
00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:16.399
Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:27.760
This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why.
00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:35.119
I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is a therapist and a groovy personal pan friend.
00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:36.560
It's Tracy.
00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:38.640
How are you doing, Tracy?
00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:39.439
I'm doing great.
00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:40.960
Thanks for having me back, Ross.
00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:44.880
It's a delight to have you and welcome everyone.
00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:51.520
It's been a couple of years since we have recorded a new podcast, and we're glad to visit with you again.
00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:59.759
Tracy and I have discussed coming back to expand on our Is There Something Wrong with Me theme?
00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:04.799
And we have selected a few of these topics to highlight.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:14.879
The question we are asking in this episode is Is there something wrong with me if I do have a favorite child?
00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:20.079
Now, Tracy, we know raising kids is hard.
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:24.239
And we are both parents.
00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:25.439
You're still a parent, aren't you?
00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:26.159
Okay.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:29.840
So it's a job that you have no training for.
00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:36.480
Some of us have actually had inadequate training from inadequate role models.
00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:37.040
Yep.
00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:41.120
It's a job you get when you are younger and don't really know anything.
00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:42.000
So true.
00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:52.799
And sometimes, you know, you're lucky and you get a really great kid and you have a lot of pride and you like showing them off and you take a lot of credit for the cool things they do.
00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.439
And then sometimes you get kids who are a little bit harder to deal with.
00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:01.280
And, you know, they're kids I like to call bums.
00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:09.120
So we have all heard the expression, I think, mom liked you best.
00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:11.840
But is there truth to that?
00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:18.240
Do you find in your practice as a therapist that parents actually do have favorites?
00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:25.039
I mean, I think yes and no and yes.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:26.960
No and maybe.
00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:27.439
Right?
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:28.080
All of it.
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:40.240
I mean, what I find, both as a parent myself and in working with many, many parents and people over the years is that like you said, some kids match better with a parent than than other kids.
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:40.719
Right.
00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:43.759
At different developmental stages, they match better than others.
00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:52.000
They push our buttons in some ways differently than other ones do, or at different ages, they push our buttons at different things.
00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:58.400
So I think favoritism can also just be the kid that makes us the least uncomfortable.
00:02:58.800 --> 00:02:59.120
Yeah.
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:17.039
What I read indicated that the research shows that the kids who are most like the parents in terms of what they value and what they believe, and maybe their their hobbies and avocations, those kids tend to get a little better treatment.
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.360
It's the kids who don't cause trouble.
00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:28.080
For the parents, don't freak them out, don't bug them, don't require a lot of extra Scooby-Doo treatment.
00:03:28.639 --> 00:03:33.680
And it's the kids who are a little bit more require a little bit more squeakier wheels.
00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:39.120
The squeakier wheel, those kids maybe are treated a little differently.
00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:50.319
But it's it turns out that the key factor in all of that, whether a kid is actually getting better treatment or not, is whether they think they're getting better or worse treatment.
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:50.879
Yeah.
00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:58.960
And if a kid thinks they're getting worse treatment, that they're the least favored kid, that that affects their mental health as they grow up.
00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:02.159
The parents, I guess, can be doing this unconsciously.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:03.199
Of course.
00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:03.599
Yeah.
00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.280
They don't they're in their mind, they're not thinking, I have a favorite.
00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:07.680
No.
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:09.120
I love all my kids.
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:10.639
Exactly the same.
00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.919
You know, my mother had a really cool, she was really good at this.
00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.160
She had a pretty cool trick.
00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:39.759
And she somehow conveyed to each of us, and remember, I came from a monstrously large family, but that whatever our unique thing was, you know, whether a kid was musical or funny or smart, she made it seem like that's the thing she really loved about them.
00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:40.160
Yeah.
00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:42.399
So each kid, I think, had a thing.
00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.680
Felt special.
00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:44.079
Yeah.
00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:52.560
I'm I'm my mother understands that this is my talent, yeah, my gift, and she really enjoys that.
00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:53.439
She was good at that.
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.759
Now my father's trick was that he didn't like anybody.
00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:56.160
Sure.
00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:56.879
That makes it easier.
00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:58.959
He didn't like anybody equally.
00:04:59.199 --> 00:04:59.759
Right.
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.560
It's like you're not liked, so stop.
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:03.360
So stop it.
00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:05.839
You're already not liked, so don't try.
00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.079
Don't even try to do anything.
00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:12.240
Whatever your whatever your talent was, he said, stop doing that.
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:14.879
Don't try and get away from the television.
00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:15.279
Yeah.
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.279
You know, one of the things I was wondering about, because I think this is pretty common.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:23.279
I think it's A, common that parents would say, no, we don't have a favorite.
00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:28.079
I think it's common that one kid probably feels that they did not get the same treatment.
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:39.839
So what I'm wondering is ideas that you might have or an idea you might have for how, first of all, a parent can make this assessment if this is going on in their in their family.
00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:45.120
Um, you know, how would they, how would they go about even noticing this behavior?
00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:47.279
I mean, it's so interesting, right?
00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:54.000
I think the reality is we all have unconscious bias, and we have unconscious bias about our children too.
00:05:54.240 --> 00:06:02.639
And that the reality is we're going to have children in our lives who push our buttons more or less.
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:02.959
Right.
00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:09.199
Or as parents, we very much want to go to bed at night feeling like I was a good parent.
00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:09.839
Right.
00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:10.399
Right.
00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.759
And man, I wish we'd get rid of the binary of good or bad parent.
00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:15.360
What's the alternative?
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:16.879
Mediocre.
00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.519
Yes, we're all just shooting for mediocre.
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:34.480
Um, no, I think it's, you know, a a parent who is a curious parent, a parent who is seeking to grow, a parent who is has more or fewer skills, a parent who is, right?
00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:40.160
But we may make it binary, like good or bad, then we're we're not hitting growth mindset.
00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:42.560
We're setting set mindset on that.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:44.959
And it makes it so hard.
00:06:45.279 --> 00:07:04.240
So then when a child is doing something that makes you feel not so successful as a parent, right, who you know, reflects poorly on you based on how you're like, but I wanted to show up at soccer and have my kid be the kid who was paying attention and scoring the goals and being successful.
00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:12.800
And instead, my kid is the one that, you know, is picking the clover and you know, like sending the ball in the other way.
00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:15.040
And we're like, that I don't want that to be my kid.
00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:16.720
I've got the loser kid.
00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:17.439
Right?
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:19.600
Like you're like, that's not what I pictured.
00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:31.839
There's this meme out there that's a parent looking down at a kid saying, Um, you know, uh, you're not letting me be the parent I picture myself being.
00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:33.600
Yeah, that is so great.
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:38.720
I like that expression that you use that parents want to feel successful.
00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:44.560
And when they're a their a kid isn't meeting that expectation, then they feel like they're not being successful.
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:49.199
So it's it's stressful for the parent at that level, stressful for the kid too.
00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:53.279
Yeah, and then you don't like that child as much.
00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:54.079
Ooh.
00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:55.040
Right?
00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.720
Like you're like, oof, this is the child that's difficult.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:09.199
It's like, oh, well, what's happening is you're having emotional difficulty looking in the mirror of this child and deciding it means something about you.
00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:17.839
Because society says that it does, and our parents say it does, and the story we're given says it does, where the reality is it only partly does.
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:29.439
Well, and and part of it, too, is we get so caught up in, you know, we talk about these expectations for our kids, which were really those kind of expectations, really, are for ourselves.
00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:30.000
Yes.
00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:37.200
And we and we get so caught up in the kid manifesting this that we actually lose sight of who the kid is.
00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:38.000
Exactly.
00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:57.440
So I had a daughter who still do, uh, but when they were little, they went to their first Easter egg hunt, and as soon as they, you know, rang the bell or blew the air horn or whatever they do to get the kids going, every kid went off like a wolverine on a bender.
00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:17.679
And my kid is sitting there just watching it happen, and then slowly walking over, you know, like a sloth and finding one egg and slowly putting it in their basket.
00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.639
And I'm like, hey, you gotta run around.
00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:22.080
You're not gonna get anything.
00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.120
And they didn't care about getting anything.
00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.000
No, but they're happy with one thing.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:28.799
Yes.
00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:30.799
I think it's exactly that, right?
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:41.360
Or uh, you know, um, I know for me, I have, you know, my oldest is dancing to the beat of his own drummer in a lot of ways.
00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:48.080
And post-high school, he decided not to go to college like everybody else did.
00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.960
And there's one part of me that was like, yes, I think that's exactly, you should do exactly that.
00:09:53.039 --> 00:10:12.799
And then there was this other part of me that was handed down by my parents, by society, by a whole other, you know, that would told me that that was not the way that was supposed to go, and that I should be doing something to have this young adult do something different than what he was trying to listen to himself doing.
00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:22.720
And I've had to really look at that and challenge myself in that and have my own growth in that to be like he's finding his path.
00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:24.240
Let him do that.
00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.480
Like that's what needs to happen.
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:33.440
And part of me was able to do that, and part of me was judging that, and part of it was like quite the thing.
00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:43.120
And I he's doing great, and he he's he's has a satisfying life that he really likes, yeah, and he's a lovely human, and you know, he's 23.
00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:47.279
Who knows what I don't know where that's going, but it's going to prison, Tracy.
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:48.000
That's where it goes.
00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:48.399
All the way.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.200
And if it does, I will judge myself harshly.
00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:56.000
Oh, well, see, I'm just joking, of course, at least 50% joking.
00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:15.279
I wanted to say that I have met this person in real life, and you know, one of the things that we do to ourselves is not only do we have expectations for the kid that are reflections of our expectations, expectations for ourselves and what we think it should look like, which is a reflection of what we think others are gonna think.
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:26.960
And when you told me that he was not going to college and he was going to pursue an alternative path or paths, having met him, I said, Oh, that's cool.
00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:31.200
Like I thought that that's totally on brand, totally makes sense.
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.840
And it was not, I didn't have the slightest thought of, oh, you have screwed up, Tracy.
00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.039
This kid is really needs to be reined in.
00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:42.399
You really need to put the clamps down and start making threats.
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:51.919
So, so that's a whole nother piece of it, is that that people, you don't even really know how people are seeing your parenting based on the kids' uh choices.
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:55.360
And some parents, you know, I've been to playgrounds.
00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:57.279
Yes, you know, I've done that.
00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:58.320
Yeah, I've seen kids.
00:11:58.399 --> 00:11:59.039
So yeah.
00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:00.879
Some kids are bums.
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:02.879
You know it's not the parents' fault.
00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:07.919
You blame the parents if they can't like keep the kid from sure messing up everyone else's day.
00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:08.240
Sure.
00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:09.360
But that's a different problem.
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:09.919
Sure.
00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:11.200
That's a whole different problem.
00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:12.480
That's not what this show is about.
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:13.039
Right.
00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.279
But, you know, some kids are bums.
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.360
You know, and and that's they're no good.
00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:23.679
It is like a parent's fault.
00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.559
You know, like it's so interesting.
00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:33.600
Like, every kid has their own because you do, you look at those kids, and and you've been, you've, you're a parent of adult children.
00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:38.480
I'm a parent of adult children, and I've seen so many of the kids they grew up with grow up.
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:44.000
And you meet those kids when they're three, four, five, seven, eight, whatever, and you're like, oh, that kid is struggling.
00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:45.519
Oh, that kid's having a hard time.
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.879
Oh, that kid has a lot to learn, you know, in a lot of ways.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:53.039
And then you meet them in their 20s, and you're like, oh, look at you.
00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:54.639
You grew into yourself.
00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:55.200
Yeah.
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:55.679
Right.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:06.240
And you know, you're like, oh, I remember you at five, like, you know, shoving everybody down on the playground and just being so challenging to be around and parents trying so hard.
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.559
And you know you have a face tattoo.
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:10.639
Exactly, but you like it.
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:15.600
And, you know, and and you work as a tattoo artist.
00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:15.840
Right.
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:19.039
And it works for you, and you found a path, right?
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:20.080
We found a path.
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:20.960
And I love that.
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:21.279
Right.
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.559
And I I understand.
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:23.840
That is that is true.
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:30.480
You know, and or some kids just struggle and they didn't go down a path that worked out well for them.
00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:32.879
And and you have sadness about that.
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:33.360
Right.
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:33.759
Right.
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:40.639
And you're like, oh, that must be so hard to be that kid's parent because you did all the things you knew how, and it still went sideways.
00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:43.440
And that's got to be incredibly hard.
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:45.679
I'm gratefully not the parent of those kids.
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:50.639
But you know, that that's so painful when that happens.
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.399
And I think going back to the favoritism piece, like I I love what your mom did.
00:13:54.480 --> 00:14:07.039
What I used to do when my kids were little, and I coach other parents to do is I say, I said to my kids, I was like, you know, um, you know, we all have hearts that are as big as they need to be for all the people we care about.
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:15.679
And each person for me has a spot kind of like a cookie cutter shape that's shaped just like them, that's not shaped like anybody else.
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:16.159
Yeah.
00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.559
And so that cookie cutter spot, like your brother can't fit in there because it's yours shape.
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:20.879
Right.
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.559
And you can't fit in your brother's spot because that's his shape.
00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:25.200
Right.
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:31.519
And so it's just like I know I don't love you the same because you're not the same people.
00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:32.159
Yeah.
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:37.679
And what I used to say to my kids too, which they remember, they'd be like, that's not fair.
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.399
And I was like, ooh, see, I wasn't going for fair.
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.759
I was going for what was the right thing for you and what was the right thing for him, and those are different things.
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:46.159
Right.
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:51.440
So I just kind of like undercut, I was like, oh, that's not an expectation.
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:51.919
Right.
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.320
Like it's not going to be exactly fair.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.720
I'm not saying I love you the same.
00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.919
I'm saying, of course I love you differently because I couldn't possibly.
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.440
And I think when we go around that, then we can say it authentically.
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.000
Yeah.
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:06.399
Right.
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.159
Because if we're a parent who in our head is like, yeah, you are harder than your brother.
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:12.080
And you're like, you don't love me the same.
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:14.559
And you're like, that's true in your own head, right?
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.279
By the time kids get to, I think it's around seven, they can read inauthenticity.
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:25.759
And so when we say things to them that are inauthentic, they can read it and they don't believe us.
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:26.159
Right.
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.840
So we want to think about ways we can say things that are authentic.
00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:36.879
So if we're never saying I love you the same, and we're saying, Of course I don't love you the same.
00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:38.480
I love you because of you.
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:39.600
You're your shape.
00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:39.919
Right.
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:41.679
And I love your brother his shape.
00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.799
I couldn't possibly love you exactly the same because you're different people.
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:53.840
Yeah, I mean, that's it's so elegant in a in a intellectual sense because it's simple.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:55.519
It's true.
00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:56.080
Uh-huh.
00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.080
The kid can understand it.
00:15:58.320 --> 00:15:58.799
Yep.
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.720
And I'm going back again and doubling down on it's true.
00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:03.120
Yes.
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:26.480
You're making clear exactly how you think about them, and you're reinforcing their individuality as a human being, and you're not making your love conditional upon them meeting some sort of uniform standard that all the kids, you know, have to meet.
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:27.200
Exactly.
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:34.879
My parent, and my dad in particular was always wondering why I was not like the other kids.
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:35.759
Yeah.
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:47.600
And so, you know, that's that's one of I think one of the byproducts of that kind of thinking is that, well, why would I be like why would any of us be like each other?
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.519
Well, and I think it helps get in the way of the competition too.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:54.720
Um, because you're like, oh, you're not competing with them.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:56.480
There's there is no competition.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:57.039
Right.
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:57.519
Right.
00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:58.399
Of course there's some.
00:16:58.559 --> 00:16:59.600
I mean, it's inherent, right?
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:00.240
All the things.
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.559
But I think as parents, if we can come in, I also think it lets us off the hook.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:25.200
Because if at different times, because I know with my kids, and I would think with yours too, at different times based on where they were developmentally or what was going on for them, or what was going on with me in my life and all different things, then um like there one kid was easier than the other at different times.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.079
And that ebbed and flowed based on what was going on with them and what was going on with me.
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:35.519
Um and so it it gave me permission to have that be okay.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:36.480
Yes.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.039
Yeah, no, I really, really like that.
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:50.079
And and that's something I think that's advice that people can implement without, you know, reading a ton of books or going to hours of therapy.
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:58.720
My first kid was easy, at least in the sense that they didn't create trouble.
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:03.759
They wanted to please so classic firstborn.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:18.000
But later on, you know, the fact that they were internalizing a lot of things and just, you know, the Easter egg thing was a good story, but I had to learn who they were as a kid and realize that was okay.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:20.240
I actually had to say, Oh, they're not like me.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:20.720
Right.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.519
But that's okay.
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:22.000
Yeah.
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:32.160
The second one was a lot more like me in some ways, but she was uh very stubborn and headstrong.
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:39.039
And I remember uh she was just a little kid, she might have been five or six, and she was just being so stubborn about something.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.799
And I said, you know, I really like this quality.
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.920
It's gonna serve you well in your life, just not now.
00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:54.400
Because she feels to this day that she was treated differently than the older one.
00:18:54.480 --> 00:19:17.680
But it makes sense using this rubric of whether, you know, the kid that perceives that they were treated differently, even if they weren't, even if they got as much attention or more, even if they got as much love or more, if they feel they were treated differently and were not as favored, that's what creates the collateral damage.
00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:18.240
Yeah.
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.039
And I looked up some of the things.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:46.480
Kids who believe they were disfavored suffer more mental health consequences, and it's that their perception that they were treated differently is a stronger predictor than almost any factor measured in studies, including their employment, their age, marital status, all these things that would influence your mental health as an adult.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:56.400
The perception that they have of being the unfavored child in a family is one of the strongest predictors of the struggle they're having now.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.839
That makes a lot of sense to me.
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:06.400
Because when we look at all of that, what kids need to feel, what we all need to feel, but kids in particular as they're growing, they need to feel a sense of belonging.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:09.359
They need to feel a sense of I'm a part of this group.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:14.720
I belong in this family, I am loved and cared for for exactly who I am.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:29.200
And if you feel like you are not the favored child or that you're being treated differently, then you would feel less a sense of belonging in that group and that you would have had to fight to be seen for who you are or whatever.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:43.839
So that would um impact your self-concept, which then impacts how you see yourself, which impacts the choices you give yourself and how you see friendships and relationships and um and that impacts us for a long time.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:44.559
Yeah.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.880
Yeah, it's really, it's really um, I was really fascinated to see that.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:21:05.920
And and in the sense that it I think it's in parents, um, it's important for parents to understand that it's less about what they're doing, it's how the kid is perceiving it.
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:12.799
So if a kid says that they're feeling that they're disfavored, it shouldn't be just, oh no, no, no, no.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.960
Yeah, I was about to say exactly that.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:22.640
I think one of the things that parents do a lot of times, that there's a real misstep, is when a kid says, You're treating me differently.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.160
The parent says, No, I'm not.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:30.960
I gave you the exact same, they start proving why they didn't, versus saying, Oh, that's a really hard way to feel.
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:32.160
Yeah.
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.119
That must that's really tough to feel that way.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.839
That must really sit in your body like that.
00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:38.960
Oh, man.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:39.200
Yeah.
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:40.079
That's so tricky.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.039
Would you like a hug?
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:42.640
And then they'll say, Well, why?
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.200
Why can't I be treated the same as the other kid?
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.680
And you say, Oh, so you're feeling like you're really treated differently.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.119
Tell me more about that.
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:52.880
Where do you notice that?
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.759
Well, for one, these shackles.
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:56.319
Right.
00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:59.759
And you're like, Oh, so you're feeling like if both of you had shackles.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.039
On that would feel better.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:01.599
Right?
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:03.839
I mean, it's really reflective listening.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:04.240
Yeah.
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.720
Right?
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.000
It's the classic stuff.
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:11.599
If if people have young kids and you haven't read How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk, please do.
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:12.400
It's a classic.
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:12.799
Okay.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:14.799
It's so good and out there.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:27.119
And then another one that helps with this kind of thing is the Tina Payne Bryson and Dan Siegel series of books that starts with the whole brain child, um, drama-free discipline, like all of that stuff.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:33.920
It's um their books are so good and give scripting for a lot of this stuff that helps um kids.
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:38.880
And then um for tweens and teens, I really like Lisa Damore.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:44.240
She just wrote The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, um, and she wrote Untangled for Tween Girls.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:52.480
Like, and she has a great podcast called Ask Lisa, but more of that stuff around that scripting and how to think about that and how to talk to kids around that.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:58.319
Um, because it really is parents will want to prove to the kid why they're not being treated differently, right?
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.000
Versus just be like, you feel like you're being treated differently.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:05.759
Yeah, it's a real trap to to to buy into that.
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.079
And I don't know where that came from.
00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.559
I really don't know what when we started saying we love everybody the same.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:14.240
I don't know how long this has been going on.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:15.759
I don't know if parents have always said that.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:20.079
I think when my everybody was working on a farm, they didn't have a like they had kids to work.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:20.559
Yes.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:21.680
That's why they had kids.
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:24.319
You're gonna go out there and do something with a pig.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:24.880
Yes.
00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.440
You know, you're gonna go out there and chase a cow.
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:27.920
Yes.
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:29.759
You're gonna go out and get another pig.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:30.960
It was just pigs and cows.
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:31.599
It was only that.
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:35.359
And then sometimes an ear of corn would mix in the hay baleing.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.400
Chicken here or there.
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:45.039
You could tell I did not do this, but but they had kids to work, and I don't know if this topic would ever come up, but maybe it would.
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:46.160
Who knows?
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:51.119
But I think those kids still felt the things, they just didn't talk about them.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.319
So here's a question.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:53.039
Yes.
00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:59.680
If and I like everything you presented, and thanks for listing those references because people can look those up.
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:07.920
But I'm wondering, let's say you're you have kids at home, um, and you're and everything seems to be going great.
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:08.480
Yeah.
00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.160
Kids are not saying anything about, hey, I'm not being treated fairly.
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.880
In fact, you're telling you, what a loving family.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:16.880
And I'm so lucky to have you as parents.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:17.440
And gosh.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.279
What is the Stepford family you're describing?
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.640
Yeah, but anyway, let's assume that things seem okay.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:23.519
All right.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:28.000
Should parents address it anyway investigate this?
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:46.079
Oh, I wouldn't say do you ever feel not treated fairly, but I would, from the time they're little, talk about um there's a there's also a great book called Siblings Without Rivalry that's written by the same people that do um how to talk so kids will listen and listen, so kids will talk.
00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:46.960
There it's great.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:53.119
And it talks a little siblings without rivalry and it talks about the same, I can't remember the authors right now, but you can look it up.
00:24:53.359 --> 00:25:06.240
Um I think I really love just bringing things up to kids and saying things like, Do you know that my heart and all of us have hearts?
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.119
Like, describe it.
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:08.799
Do you know that there's a cookie cutter?
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.279
Like from the time they're tiny, right?
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.200
Do you know that you're the shape right here?
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.359
You're right here in my heart, this shape.
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.240
You're sending up the concept for literally.
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:27.200
And do you know that your other parent, mom, dad, whoever is that shape, and grandma and aunt so-and-so, and your brother, and I have shapes for all these people.
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:28.880
What shapes do you have in your heart?
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:30.240
Who, who, who's in there?
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:31.599
What shapes are they?
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.079
Right.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:32.559
Right?
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:38.240
And so you're setting up the concept from the get-go, so you're not coming in behind it so much.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.279
And you have shapes for your friends at school and for your teacher.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:42.640
Like we have all these shapes.
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:43.759
Look how big our hearts are.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:45.440
They're big enough for all those shapes.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:47.920
I want, he got four grapes.
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:49.039
I want four grapes.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:50.880
You're like, oh, is it important?
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.720
Do you have the exact same number?
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:53.680
Right?
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:54.400
Yeah.
00:25:54.640 --> 00:26:05.759
Um, oh, that feels important to you as kids are learning about playing games and winning and losing, and you know, how to be a good sport and how to enjoy all of those things.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:09.279
This is all relative to it because it's a scarcity idea.
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.720
Like, I need to have the same amount as someone else, or what?
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:13.759
Right.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:14.480
Right?
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.359
Um yeah, grapes are delicious.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.039
You want to have four also?
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:20.079
Let's count them out.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:20.960
Right?
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:22.400
He got two more.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:23.200
That's true.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:24.799
His body needed those.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:26.640
Right.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:27.680
Right.
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.599
And like, oh, do you want to count?
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.119
Yeah, how many goldfish do you have?
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:31.839
You're counting.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.039
You have different numbers.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:34.160
I want the same.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:35.359
Well, you have different.
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:41.440
You would have been so helpful uh uh in our family as we were growing up.
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.279
Because it was kind of a Lord of the Flies.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:44.960
Yeah.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.319
It was, you know, well, we'll see if you survive.
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:48.799
Yeah.
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:49.839
I mean, get in there.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:53.519
You can you better be different.
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:54.880
You better be strong.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:57.039
You better stand out.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:59.119
There's only a limited amount of food.
00:26:59.359 --> 00:26:59.920
Totally.
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:02.160
Um, but oh, that would have been so helpful.
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:07.839
Yeah, because I think, you know, I think we all believe that we were competing with each other.
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:08.319
Yes.
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.960
And it's taken us decades to get around that.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.440
And, you know, we still get a little crazy when at the dinner table.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:17.920
Sure.
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:29.920
Even as adults, we kind of look around, we kind of look at everybody, we size up the how much food is available, and then you know, we're two clicks from scrumming over the food, you know, like knocking each other out.
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:31.759
I don't think that's uncommon.
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.200
And I think parents a lot of times don't know what to do with that.
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:36.000
Yeah.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:41.680
And it's not actually I mean, it's it's not easy, but it is simple.
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.880
Well, this has been really great.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:51.359
I really appreciate you um being here today to talk about this topic because I think it's interesting.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:52.880
It's an interesting thing.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:59.599
It's it's sort of like always a little joke, oh, mom liked you best, or I was always the black sheep in my family, whatever people say.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:08.400
And and and maybe, you know, maybe it was meant in humor, but I think a lot of times people don't feel like they were loved the same way.
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.119
And I think it's something that parents don't think about.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.559
If they do think about it, they don't talk about it in a way that's helpful.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:28.720
And you've very quickly just laid out a really nice simple way for parents to talk to their kids and to create a a, you know, a structure for them where they can think about how it works.
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:44.240
How because you're not only teaching them how you love them individually, but you're teaching them later in life, you know, you know, your value is not going to be the same to everyone in in exactly the same way.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:44.880
Yeah.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.559
Because that's the truth.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:47.039
Yes.
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:48.000
Because guess what?
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:53.440
In the real world, right, you might not even be a cookie shape in somebody's heart.
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:54.000
Right.
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.119
Even if you want to be.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.000
You might want to be a cookie shape, and they're saying you're not a shortcut.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.920
No, thanks, you're certain you don't fit there.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.240
You're not a cookie and you have no shape.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:03.359
No, nothing.
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.480
No shape, no cookie, you are nothing to me.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.920
And they have to be like, oh, okay.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:12.400
Yeah, they have to realize like that's okay too.
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:17.279
And that is fine and painful at the same time.
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:22.480
Yeah, but but it's less about their you being less than.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.200
Yes.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.480
It's not about that.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:29.039
And that's such an important lesson for people to learn.
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:34.160
And we're such in a hurry, I think, to make kids feel good all the time and protect them.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:34.960
Yes.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:39.279
And we actually end up setting them up for uh hardship sometimes.
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:39.920
I think so.
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:41.839
Well, thanks very much for being here.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.039
And thank you everyone for listening to this episode.
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:46.640
We'll do a few more of those.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.200
Yeah.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:48.160
If you don't mind.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:48.799
I'd love it.
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:50.319
Come back and do some more.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:59.920
Um, and you know, if you're out there and you're listening to us and you say, Oh my goodness, these guys are doing new episodes, uh, feel free to contact us via email.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.799
The emails in the show notes, and let us know your thoughts about what you're hearing.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:25.440
We always enjoy hearing from you, and we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are a kid who sucks at Easter egg hunting or just someone who has no cookie shape, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:26.799
Goodbye, everybody.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:27.759
Bye.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:29.359
Uh, sexy.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:30.480
Yeah, it's very moody.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:31.440
It's very moody.
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:32.720
It's okay for me right now.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:33.440
It works for me.
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.119
I'm not looking at anything except Ross, and I love mood lighting on Ross.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:40.160
I'm much better with dim lighting.
