Poison Pudding Problems - Columbus, Indiana

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This week, in Columbus, Indiana, after the suspicious death of
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a man in his estranged wife's backyard, detectives assume that
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it's just a sad tragedy. But when people start coming
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forward with information, they must decide whether he did it
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to himself or if a certain dessert item could be
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the culprit. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Small Town Murder
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Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder.
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Yay!
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Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo.
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I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you
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folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely
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wild edition of Small Town Murder. As you know, we
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had a serial killer for the regular episode last week.
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We've had a lot of crazy stuff here and this
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is no different. So buckle up because it's going to
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be nuts here. Before we get into this, definitely head
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over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Get your tickets for everything, all the
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live shows that are out there. First of all, the
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next live show with tickets available May 2nd in Denver.
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Still some seats for that. Hurry up. They're going so fast.
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They're going fast. And then Royal Oak, Michigan, too. I
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think there's a few left for that one as well
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on May 30th. And then after the summer, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Dallas,
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San Jose, Sacramento, Tarrytown, and Boston. Oh, boy. And then
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our funeral's in early December. So that'll be a nice thing.
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You can all come to that. You can all mourn us.
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So that's how that's going to work. Definitely do that.
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Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, get yourself Patreon.
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Do yourself a favor. Get yourself Patreon. Patreon.com slash crime
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in sports. Just like the name of the other show
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that we do that you should listen to. And you
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will love even if you don't like sports. It's a
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great show. So do that. Anybody $ 5 a month or above,
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you get everything, everything we put out immediately. And that
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get hundreds, over 300 back bonus episodes, whole big catalog
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of those to binge. And then new ones every other week,
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one crime and sports, one small town murder. And how
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much of that do they get? All of it. Every
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damn drop of it. That's right. This week is no different.
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Patreon this week for crime and sports. We're going to
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talk about the I believe it's the Ecclesia Athletic Association,
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which was a program in California for inner-city kids to
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get them off the streets and get them into sports.
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And what do you think happened there? It turned into
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a big weird cult thing, and it's creepy. And then
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for small-town murder, it is Corey Richin's Part 2. People
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can't wait for that. We are excited. That's the woman
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who poisoned her husband and then wrote a grief book
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for her children about it, which is– Insanity. We'll get
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to all that and more. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports.
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And you get a shout-out at the end of the
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regular show as well. And then you get everything we
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put out. Crime in Sports, Your Stupid Opinions, and Small
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Town Murder all ad-free with your Patreon as well. You
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can't beat it, everybody. That said, disclaimer time. Here we go. Hey,
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this is a comedy show, everybody. We are comedians. Unfortunately,
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people are going to die here, and Whether we do
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a show about them or not, they're still dead. That's
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the thing. Still dead. Still dead, and we still didn't
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kill them. So don't be mad at us for that
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is what we're saying here. We are going to make jokes,
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and people are going to die. And you go, well,
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how does that work? Well, we follow a very simple
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rule that I think helps a lot, and that's we
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never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why, James?
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Because we're assholes.
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But?
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But we're not scumbags. See how that works? See? That's it.
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I think everything falls— Under those parameters, things happen. You know,
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there's crazy stories and crazy stuff going on behind. And
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that's where the jokes all come from. We'll make fun
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of a small town because who cares? Everybody's from a
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small town to make fun of. It doesn't matter. We'll
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make fun of murderers. We'll make fun of a police
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force that screws everything up and lets somebody kill a
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bunch like they did in the last episode. And so
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that's what we do here. So, yeah, that sounds good
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to you. You're going to hear a crazy story. If
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you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together,
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this might not be the place for you. Or it
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might be. That's the thing. You never know. I say
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give it a shot. No complaining later. What do you say, everybody?
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That's the important part. So I think it's time, everybody,
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to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs. There we
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go here. Arms to the sky. And let's all shout.
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Shut up and give me my life. Let's do this, everybody. Okay.
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Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. All right.
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Let's do this. We are going to Indiana this week. Columbus, Indiana.
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Can't fuck that up. There's a Columbus everywhere. I'm sure
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there's some pronunciation that's wrong. Columbus. The Louisiana people, you
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guys are brutal about these. Columbus. Listen, Louisiana, you barely
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speak English down there, first of all. So how dare
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you say anything about pronunciations? Whatever you're saying, you're saying
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it wrong. I'll just say that. We'll tell you what
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the English translation of it is for you. Or the French.
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Fuck you.
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Yeah, or say it in French. I don't know. Then
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I wouldn't know what you're talking about. But this is
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in south central Indiana, about 50 minutes to Indianapolis, about
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an hour and 10 to Louisville in the other direction.
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So two mediocre cities within an hour's drive of you.
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And then about an hour and 45 to Williamsburg, Indiana.
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That's our last Indiana episode, episode 654, A Death in
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the Family, which you'll want to go back and listen
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to because it was crazy. Now, this is in Bartholomew County. Bartholomew.
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Area codes 812 and 930. It's got two area codes
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because it's also got a nickname and a motto. So
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they're living it up here. The motto here, Unexpected Life. Oh. Yeah.
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Those two go both ways. It's like a Calvin Klein
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ad from the 80s. Two people dressed in flowy white
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clothes with windblow and making out, and they say, unexpected.
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Unforgettable, Calvin Klein. And Justin Bieber pointing down going, my
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pee-pee's in there.
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Yeah. Did you see that Kate McKinnon sketch?
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Ah, you probably didn't.
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No. It's one of the best things I've ever done
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in the last decade. Ten years. It's amazing. There's like
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two things. Yeah. That's what I mean. Kate McKinnon and
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the TK. I gave up on SNL a long time ago.
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She's incredible. Oh, she's great. Yeah, she's great. But, yeah,
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they didn't have anything funny going on for a while.
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And it's not even their fault. It's just that how
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do you collect? It's all been done. Well, it's all
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been done by Saturday. That's the problem. There's no more
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commentary that needs to be said. It's been memefied all week. Oh, God, yeah.
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So nickname of this town. Athens of the Prairie. Some
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balls on these people.
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Athens, Georgia?
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No, no. Athens. Like, you know, where all the stuff
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comes from. Diplomacy and shit.
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Athens of the Prairie.
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Yeah. Okay. A little bit of history here. The land
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developed as Columbus was bought by General John Tipton and
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a guy named Luke Bonesteel. Bone steel. Bone steel. He
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has– talk about– I've never seen anyone leave such a
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lucrative country music career on the table as Luke Bone
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Steel because, I mean, honestly, whatever you did– Are you
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sure he did? He wasn't a country music star, so no.
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Luke Bone Steel. He might have been. No, not in 1820, unfortunately,
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for him. He built– Tipton built a log cabin on
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Mount Tipton, a small hill overlooking the White River. And
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the town was first known as Tiptona, Tipton with an A, Tiptona,
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named in honor of Tipton. They changed the town's name
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because it was stupid to Columbus. Because it sucks. Because
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it was real dumb and people were making fun of them.
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On March 20th, 1821, all the other towns around were
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mocking them. Wouldn't it last a year?
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How long did it last?
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Yeah, about a year, not long. People believe that Tipton
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was upset by the name change, but we're not sure
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about that. But either way, he founded the town and
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built the first everything and then left after they changed
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the name. So I think he was pissed off about it.
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I don't think they liked him very much here. In 1821, basically,
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there was three or four log cabins developed around the
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ferry landing, and then they added a store in 1821.
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So that's what there was.
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Well, when you got a good, strong name like Columbus,
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you got to have a store out here.
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Like Tiptona. Tiptona didn't have a store. No store in Tiptona.
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And later that year, the county was organized and Columbus
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was incorporated as a town in 1864 and then as
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a city in 1921.
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Very much like Columbus, already established and throws his name
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on it.
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Throws his name on everything. Hey, there's people already here.
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I found this. It's Columbus. Reviews of this town since,
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you know, we've never been here and hopefully won't be
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anytime soon. We have other people's opinions. This place has 3.9
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stars out of 174 reviews on Niche. So well-reviewed. Here's
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five stars. Columbus is a city I would visit if
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I didn't already live here.
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Oh, okay.
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Wrap your brain around that.
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Unravel that one. Just say that.
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Columbus is a city I would visit if I didn't
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already live here is the dumbest sentence ever uttered. With
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architecture and plenty of activities for weekends. stays, it combines
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small town charm and big city diversity in one. I would, however,
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like to see more unique activity shops for dates. Activity
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shops for dates. They mean like escape rooms. escape rooms
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and fucking axe throwing and whatever douchebags do on dates.
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Have you seen those?
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They do those now.
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Oh, God.
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Cookie dates, James.
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Cookie dates. Whatever happened to Having a couple of glasses
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of wine and seeing where this thing goes. What are
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we doing? What are we doing as a people?
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What happened to seeing what their genitals taste like?
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What are we doing? This is a problem. Be adults.
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Jesus Christ. I don't want to hear people blaming anything else. Oh,
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there's too much birth control, so there's some populations. I
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don't want to hear any of that shit. This is
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the problem. When you go on your first date to
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paint a fucking cookie, you're laying down no sexual undertone
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to that whatsoever. None. Nothing's going to happen.
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The exact opposite, actually.
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The exact opposite. Of course. Yeah. You're neutering the relationship
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for the rest of it right there. It's just that
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this is our relationship. Ridiculous. Just like two ants that
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get together to make cookies. That's who we are. So, yeah,
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I would like to see that as well as diversity
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in dining. I guess, you know, more than just the
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Taco Bell, maybe a real Mexican joint. Here's five stars.
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Columbus has so many nice people. It has a small
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hometown feel. There's plenty to do, and it is beautiful.
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Yeah, and if you lived here, you'd already be home.
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You'd already be home.
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Remember that.
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That's what the sign says.
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Yeah.
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Here is three stars. I love the architecture and beauty
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within Columbus, but drugs have become such an epidemic that
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I feel it's losing its beauty. Yeah, it's every town. Yeah. Oh,
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not drugs. Really? Very unique that you have drug addicts there.
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Here's two stars. This is not a town that promotes
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young adult growth. I don't know if you have to
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promote it. They're growing no matter what. They're going to grow.
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You can't stop them.
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It's just nature, man.
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It's just nature. And honestly, it is and honestly is
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not very popular amongst well-mannered individuals.
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Oh, it's only the surly folks.
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So yeah, this town is not popular amongst well-mannered individuals.
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Apparently what's the population. Did you say that yet?
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Not yet. No, it's a minute. We'll get to that
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in about 15, 20 or about a minute. Yeah. Two
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set or two stars. Lots of people get kicked out
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of their homes because they stopped paying rent. Well, that's,
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that's what happens. Yeah. Um, Cause and effect. Because it
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seems most of them do drugs because of all the
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traffic in the houses and the houses stay vacant for
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long periods of time. You just described drugs. That's drugs.
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One star. The nightlife here is awful. Really? In Columbus, Indiana?
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I'd expect it to be.
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I just found out about it.
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Yeah.
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I haven't been yet.
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There's nothing for adults to do except get into trouble. Oh.
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There are only a few decent bars here, and I
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would not even say that they were decent. I would
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rather drive 45 minutes north and go to Indianapolis than
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00:13:10.429 --> 00:13:14.070
stay here in town. Yeah, that's what you do. Yeah,
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that's your 45 minutes. But I guess if you want
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a drink or something that's not fun, then you have
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to Uber. It's an expensive Uber.
249
00:13:19.610 --> 00:13:23.070
You get a hotel. This is what you do when
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you don't live in a city.
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Yeah, I know. But people, a lot of times, they
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don't have the money to go to a city and
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go to get a hotel just to get drunk for
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the night. You can drink at home, I guess. But yeah,
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that's what I mean.
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Get yourself a handle and shut up.
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I get what you're complaining about, but you know what
258
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you can do? Not live in a small town. Right.
259
00:13:38.970 --> 00:13:42.629
That's the solution to that. I would rather drive 45
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00:13:42.629 --> 00:13:45.409
minutes north and go to Indianapolis. Also, with the restaurant,
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00:13:45.490 --> 00:13:47.970
I would rather drive 30 minutes to Greenwood and eat
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up there. The variety is much greater than here. So
263
00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:56.519
same complaints. Not enough restaurants. Yeah. Stupid date options. Okay.
264
00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.399
Population here, 50,718. Wow. This has gone up a lot.
265
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.580
In 2000, they had 39,000 people. So it's— No nightlife
266
00:14:05.620 --> 00:14:08.750
with 50,000 people? 50,000 people. You'd think there would be
267
00:14:08.809 --> 00:14:10.909
some nightlife. I think there's a problem here. Yeah. I
268
00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:14.909
think it's Indiana is the problem here. Let's see. Women
269
00:14:14.929 --> 00:14:20.809
in this town, 49.3%. 50.7% are men. So more men
270
00:14:20.850 --> 00:14:22.809
than women in a big town. That's not great for
271
00:14:22.850 --> 00:14:27.820
the guys there. Median age here, 35.7. It's a little
272
00:14:27.860 --> 00:14:30.200
lower than the national average because there is a college
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00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:34.799
here as well. Indiana University, Columbus. Oh, is that right? Yeah.
274
00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:36.919
So you would imagine there would be bars at least
275
00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:40.879
if there's colleges. That makes no sense. Family in this town.
276
00:14:40.899 --> 00:14:43.250
Although, James, when it's a town like that and you
277
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.710
go to a bar in a town that's– you– It's
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00:14:46.769 --> 00:14:48.309
the fucking worst.
279
00:14:47.970 --> 00:14:50.909
To go to a college park. I live in Poughkeepsie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
280
00:14:50.950 --> 00:14:52.509
I live five minutes from Vassar College.
281
00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.360
I tried to go up here to the Derby on Halloween.
282
00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:57.639
Not a chance. No, go there.
283
00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:58.720
Packed with college kids.
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00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:02.179
I'm going. Packed with them. See ya. Yeah, they're the worst.
285
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:06.159
And they're uppity little shits, too. Oh, James, they have
286
00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:09.779
way better cars than I have. Indiana University, Columbus. They
287
00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:11.529
might be a little more down to earth. These Vassar
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00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:14.679
kids are all like, you know. My dad was in
289
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:17.990
a sitcom. Well, fuck you. It's all that shit.
290
00:15:18.029 --> 00:15:20.230
They're driving $ 80, 000 lifted trucks. These kids, I feel like,
291
00:15:20.269 --> 00:15:20.929
drive Kias.
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00:15:21.549 --> 00:15:26.950
For sure. This is a Kia university here. 53.5% married
293
00:15:26.990 --> 00:15:30.320
despite the young population of college kids. So the rest
294
00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:34.039
of it is very kind of suburban family, all that
295
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.320
kind of shit. 17.7% are single with children. So that's
296
00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:41.169
a little higher than the national average. Race in this town,
297
00:15:41.169 --> 00:15:43.190
79% white, 2.5% black, 10.4% Asian. Must be a decent college.
298
00:15:43.529 --> 00:15:45.720
No kidding. And 5.7% Hispanic here. 49.5% of the people
299
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.779
here are religious. So that's just about the national average.
300
00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:50.220
And it is a hodgepodge. There is nothing real. Lutheran
301
00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:51.639
has the most. Wow. And that's 9%. So it's a
302
00:15:51.639 --> 00:16:11.100
real hodgepodge. 17% other Christian faith. So don't know what
303
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:15.360
that is, but that takes the day. Low unemployment rate here.
304
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.059
Median household income, a little bit higher than the national average, $ 72, 380.
305
00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:23.990
So not terrible. Dang. Especially for a college town. Usually
306
00:16:24.009 --> 00:16:26.529
they're pretty low. Right. You know, just to take into
307
00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:29.190
account the college kids on average. Sure, sure. Cost of
308
00:16:29.230 --> 00:16:33.639
living here, 100 is regular average. Here it's 83%. So
309
00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:35.940
a little bit low. And the housing is even lower.
310
00:16:35.980 --> 00:16:39.980
The housing, $ 230, 100 is the median home cost.
311
00:16:40.539 --> 00:16:42.259
Kind of a great place to be if you just
312
00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:44.500
want to be in bed by 7.
313
00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:47.350
That's the thing, yeah. If you're just real boring and
314
00:16:49.070 --> 00:16:51.850
you like to sit around. Sounds awesome. It sounds great.
315
00:16:51.889 --> 00:16:53.570
And if you do like to sit around and if
316
00:16:53.590 --> 00:16:56.929
this sounds perfect for you, you're in luck. We have
317
00:16:56.970 --> 00:17:08.380
for you the Columbus, Indiana Real Estate Report. Average two-bedroom
318
00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:12.140
rental here goes for $ 1, 070, which is below the national average.
319
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:16.690
Not bad for a college town. House number one, two-bedroom, one-bath,
320
00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:22.619
840 square feet. It's a little house. Built in 1900.
321
00:17:22.619 --> 00:17:24.609
Kind of a cool old house. That's kind of cool.
322
00:17:24.630 --> 00:17:27.230
The problem is it's like four feet from the tiny,
323
00:17:27.309 --> 00:17:30.609
cool little old house next to it. Oh, Jesus. It
324
00:17:30.630 --> 00:17:32.710
looks like you could reach out a window and touch
325
00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:33.890
the siding on the other house.
326
00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:34.859
Hand somebody some sugar.
327
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:41.500
Yeah, you could be like Godfather II and hand Vito
328
00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:44.319
the tablecloth full of guns and say, here, hold on
329
00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:47.089
to that. That's what's going on here. $ 110, 000 for this.
330
00:17:50.210 --> 00:17:54.359
I mean, it's in fine shape and all, but that's expensive.
331
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:55.119
For a little tiny house.
332
00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:59.819
You get nothing for that. No. Here is a three-bedroom, two-bath, 2,528
333
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:03.819
square foot. So two-story. You can stick your family in there.
334
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:08.160
Built in 1948. Again, not a big lot. Pretty small lot.
335
00:18:08.900 --> 00:18:14.190
But nicely done on the inside. Fireplaces, hardwood floors. Decent house. Sure.
336
00:18:14.549 --> 00:18:22.079
Just had a $ 15, 000 price cut. Good news, everybody. $ 220, 000
337
00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:23.069
for that bad boy. Oh. 2,300 square feet, not bad.
338
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:27.470
And the next house, it's a gigantic log cabin. It
339
00:18:28.329 --> 00:18:30.789
looks like a resort, like a ski lodge. It's a
340
00:18:30.829 --> 00:18:34.589
big one. Three-bedroom, four-bath, T-bowl for each and every b-hole, 5,580
341
00:18:34.589 --> 00:18:43.279
square feet on 220 acres. Oh, it is just the woods.
342
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:46.200
It's awesome. And it's like, and you can't even like
343
00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:48.480
see it. It like sits like up on a hill,
344
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:51.220
like behind a bunch of trees. It's like a ski lodge.
345
00:18:51.259 --> 00:18:53.740
It's cool as shit. Amazing. You're going to pay for
346
00:18:53.779 --> 00:19:00.420
it though. $ 4, 490, 000 for that. And that's fine. I mean,
347
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.619
you gotta have $ 5 million. Yeah.
348
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:05.519
Unload some of the land and make it more affordable.
349
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:05.940
I don't know.
350
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.089
That seems, I don't know what the decent deal.
351
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.420
Yeah, I don't know what this land is worth without
352
00:19:10.460 --> 00:19:13.140
the house and vice versa type of thing. I'm not sure.
353
00:19:13.990 --> 00:19:18.730
Things to do here. Okay. We have Chuck Taylor Day. What?
354
00:19:19.049 --> 00:19:23.049
That Chuck Taylor. Yeah. Really? The inaugural Chuck Taylor Day
355
00:19:23.089 --> 00:19:27.390
was held in June of 2025, celebrating the local basketball
356
00:19:27.430 --> 00:19:30.910
legend and creator of, of course, the Chuck Taylor Converse there.
357
00:19:31.990 --> 00:19:36.170
And they're attempting– To get a Guinness World Record for
358
00:19:36.190 --> 00:19:41.309
the most Chuck Taylors in one place. People wearing the sneakers. Shoes. Yeah.
359
00:19:41.349 --> 00:19:43.789
Most people wearing them. I mean, I think that's Kohl's,
360
00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:48.569
but I could be wrong. Yeah, probably. They also have
361
00:19:48.609 --> 00:19:51.099
live music that they don't feel. necessary to even tell
362
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.759
you about. Oh, no, we have those. Then there's also
363
00:19:53.859 --> 00:20:00.329
an unveiling of a giant 10-foot fiberglass sneaker. Not of
364
00:20:00.390 --> 00:20:04.910
Chuck Taylor, the guy. The sneaker, a giant fiberglass one.
365
00:20:04.930 --> 00:20:07.190
Imagine that. That is amazing.
366
00:20:07.769 --> 00:20:12.049
Imagine when there's a– in 60 years, there's a Jimmy
367
00:20:12.089 --> 00:20:15.980
and James Day and they just unveil a 20-foot microphone.
368
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.099
Just a big dick of a microphone sitting there. Sure,
369
00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:23.240
why not? There we are. That's us. That's perfect. Just
370
00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:29.450
a you sir may fuck off shirt. A 20-foot fiberglass one.
371
00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:32.240
By the way, somebody got that on their middle finger,
372
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.299
I saw, tattooed. Yeah. I was like, wow, that is
373
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:38.420
pretty damn badass. Awesome. That is fucking cool, I guess.
374
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:40.569
It's a choice to make.
375
00:20:40.769 --> 00:20:43.130
It's a choice. It's a strong choice. But, I mean,
376
00:20:43.150 --> 00:20:44.769
it's on your middle finger, so it's making a statement.
377
00:20:44.789 --> 00:20:48.849
It's the right one. Live music from The Bourne Mountaineer
378
00:20:50.069 --> 00:20:55.049
and The Revelators, two separate bands. Revelators. Okay. And there's
379
00:20:55.089 --> 00:20:59.210
also food trucks. There's also the Ethnic Expo that will
380
00:20:59.250 --> 00:21:02.069
be there. That's all the music? That's all the music
381
00:21:02.089 --> 00:21:04.869
you're getting for Chuck Taylor. Yeah. For Chuck Taylor Day.
382
00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:06.990
The Ethnic Expo is the one everybody talks about because
383
00:21:07.009 --> 00:21:09.109
they have, like, good food. It's their own little, like,
384
00:21:09.150 --> 00:21:11.559
World's Fair, it seems like, where they have good food
385
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:16.720
from everywhere. Very interesting group of musicians here. You have
386
00:21:16.779 --> 00:21:24.160
the Mariachi Sol Gialis Science. You got that. Then you
387
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:30.250
have the Southern Indiana Tyco. DJ Smooth G will be there.
388
00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:35.769
And then closing it out, Bruce Humphreys. Everybody knows about
389
00:21:35.809 --> 00:21:36.769
old Bruce Humphreys.
390
00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:38.849
Sounds like a morning DJ.
391
00:21:38.970 --> 00:21:43.630
Yeah. Bruce Humphreys here. Giving you your top ten at
392
00:21:43.690 --> 00:21:49.079
ten this morning. Bruce Humphreys, 97.5. Bruce Humphreys, 97.5. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
393
00:21:49.099 --> 00:21:52.680
That's what they all sound like. Dragon weather. I'm trying
394
00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:55.579
to get weather. Crime rate in this town, this is wild.
395
00:21:55.660 --> 00:21:58.660
Property crime, usually a little higher in a college town,
396
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.769
but this is obscene here. Almost double the national average. Goddamn.
397
00:22:02.809 --> 00:22:05.529
There's a lot. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and,
398
00:22:05.569 --> 00:22:08.890
of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, that's about
399
00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:12.450
half the average. So that seems like just a lot
400
00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:16.150
of college bullshit goes on here. That said, let's talk
401
00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:18.170
about some murder. What do you say? Here we go.
402
00:22:19.210 --> 00:22:22.130
All right, here. Let's talk about a man first off here.
403
00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:28.180
Let's talk about a dude, Alan Duvall here. A-L-A-N. There's
404
00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:33.259
a million ways to spell Alan. And then Duvall, also D-U-V-A-L-L.
405
00:22:33.339 --> 00:22:36.980
That could be one D, one L, one, two Ls.
406
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:43.069
You never know. He's born November 6th, 1945. Okay. So,
407
00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:46.470
you know, kind of post-war, just post-war baby boom. His
408
00:22:46.509 --> 00:22:49.130
dad got home and got a plow and You betcha.
409
00:22:49.410 --> 00:22:51.529
He's second. He still had his, he still had the
410
00:22:51.589 --> 00:22:54.309
top of his Navy uniform on and that dumb fucking hat.
411
00:22:54.349 --> 00:22:56.230
He just took those white pants off and went right
412
00:22:56.250 --> 00:22:56.549
to work.
413
00:22:58.650 --> 00:23:02.039
The photographer stopped taking pictures when he dipped and kissed her.
414
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.220
Well, when he lifted her skirt up, when he lifted
415
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:06.140
her skirt up, the photographer was like, all right, better
416
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:09.859
turn this way. This is going to be, this is
417
00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:12.720
going to be salacious. Yeah. They'll never run this on
418
00:23:12.740 --> 00:23:16.690
the front page. Um, so he's born in Indiana. Um,
419
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:21.640
His parents are Joe Duvall and Mary Robbins. Allen enters
420
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.710
the Navy when he's a young man. Oh. So follows there.
421
00:23:25.730 --> 00:23:26.210
I think his dad.
422
00:23:26.250 --> 00:23:26.849
In the late 50s?
423
00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:29.750
Well, I guess 60s, huh? Yeah. This would be like, man, 1963.
424
00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:33.309
Something like that. Terrible timing for Vietnam, by the way.
425
00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:33.890
Couldn't be worse.
426
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:34.670
Yeah.
427
00:23:34.819 --> 00:23:37.619
To join the military in 1963 or four. Not great.
428
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.099
Was that a lot of Navy involvement there? Fuck yeah.
429
00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:40.319
Yeah.
430
00:23:40.339 --> 00:23:41.839
Tons of it. There was a lot of everybody involved.
431
00:23:41.859 --> 00:23:43.599
I mean, the Army was your main. You're sitting on
432
00:23:43.619 --> 00:23:46.480
the front lines, whatever. But the Navy, they were over there.
433
00:23:47.630 --> 00:23:49.450
They were sure as hell sitting over there, you know,
434
00:23:49.710 --> 00:23:51.450
doing all that shit.
435
00:23:51.650 --> 00:23:53.089
Not a lot of fire coming to them.
436
00:23:53.109 --> 00:23:54.299
Not too much.
437
00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:56.440
Unless you're in a fucking helicopter, I guess.
438
00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:01.220
Yeah, or one of the poor bastards when they did
439
00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:05.059
the whole bullshit thing of blowing up the ship. Oh, yeah.
440
00:24:05.259 --> 00:24:08.869
One of those poor bastards. One of his friends said
441
00:24:09.029 --> 00:24:11.230
after he got out of the Navy, he worked on
442
00:24:11.289 --> 00:24:14.670
the oil field, I think, out in Oklahoma or somewhere
443
00:24:14.750 --> 00:24:15.190
out west.
444
00:24:15.750 --> 00:24:17.609
He's choosing some tough gigs, man.
445
00:24:17.930 --> 00:24:20.410
He just goes west toward the oil fields. That's where
446
00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:20.890
he's going.
447
00:24:21.950 --> 00:24:23.269
Go until it turns brown.
448
00:24:23.329 --> 00:24:26.730
Stop there and pull out a drill. Go until everything
449
00:24:26.769 --> 00:24:30.619
looks dead and then just start attempting. So he worked
450
00:24:30.650 --> 00:24:34.740
for years as a jewelry salesman also at a Columbus
451
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:38.519
jewelry store in Columbus, Indiana. After that, after it went
452
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.299
out of business, then he never really got– he never
453
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:44.819
really had a steady gig from then on out of like,
454
00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:47.380
really didn't work at one place for 10 years or
455
00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:50.079
anything like that. After the jewelry store, he went from
456
00:24:50.140 --> 00:24:53.369
job to job. He did a lot of maintenance. Um,
457
00:24:53.869 --> 00:24:56.849
he did like landscaping and maintenance for local hotels.
458
00:24:57.809 --> 00:24:58.930
And, uh, tough gig too.
459
00:24:59.349 --> 00:25:01.869
Yeah. He lived at a hotel also where he got
460
00:25:01.950 --> 00:25:04.049
free room and board for being a maintenance man. So
461
00:25:04.089 --> 00:25:08.380
that's what he does now. This, he, in spite of this,
462
00:25:08.630 --> 00:25:12.390
despite his, you know, seeming lack of steady, uh, And
463
00:25:12.630 --> 00:25:18.720
really substantial income. Yeah. He apparently really likes fancy things,
464
00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:22.059
everybody says. He likes nice things. Who the fuck doesn't? Well,
465
00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:24.680
some people don't care. Some people don't like fancy things.
466
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:26.220
Yeah, I guess that's true, too.
467
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:28.039
Some people, if you get them a Rolex, they'd rather
468
00:25:28.059 --> 00:25:30.109
have a Casio. It's just the way they are.
469
00:25:30.329 --> 00:25:31.609
But he's got a real penchant for it.
470
00:25:31.890 --> 00:25:34.829
He's got it. Yeah, he wants it. He likes a
471
00:25:34.910 --> 00:25:37.230
good car. He likes to wear a little jewelry here
472
00:25:37.269 --> 00:25:39.509
and there. Oh, by the way, not even Italian, by
473
00:25:39.529 --> 00:25:45.059
the way, from before. Yeah, weird. Um, he, uh, strange, right?
474
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:46.019
What's his excuse?
475
00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:50.259
You guys aren't even privy to this. God damn it.
476
00:25:50.660 --> 00:25:55.529
So he, uh, he needed, yeah, that's a, that was
477
00:25:55.569 --> 00:25:58.190
before we even started this shit. Yeah, it was. Yeah.
478
00:25:58.230 --> 00:26:02.049
That was before. It's a long story. That's a long
479
00:26:02.089 --> 00:26:07.700
story guys. But, uh, yeah, anyway, he needed three jobs
480
00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.420
to keep up with shit sometimes. To keep up with
481
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:13.900
his spending habits. If you want to have fancy shit
482
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.779
and you're willing to work three jobs and make enough
483
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:17.980
money to get it, good for you. You can work
484
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:20.400
five jobs if you don't mind working five jobs so
485
00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:22.140
you can get a nice watch or a necklace or
486
00:26:22.180 --> 00:26:25.789
a nice car or whatever the fuck. He's married for
487
00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:28.170
a while. He has two sons from his first marriage.
488
00:26:29.250 --> 00:26:33.369
And he lived with his wife in Kentucky and ran
489
00:26:33.410 --> 00:26:36.490
his own business for a while as well. And that
490
00:26:36.529 --> 00:26:38.509
didn't work out and he ends up back in Indiana
491
00:26:38.750 --> 00:26:41.259
after they get divorced. And like I said, he has
492
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:45.950
two sons. Um, now he's a, people love the guy.
493
00:26:46.190 --> 00:26:48.769
He's described by a lot of people as the life
494
00:26:48.789 --> 00:26:50.990
of the party and just a real fun guy to
495
00:26:51.029 --> 00:26:54.390
be around. Um, his cousin described him as quote, just
496
00:26:54.430 --> 00:27:00.390
a wonderful man. Wonderful. Um, he, um, they said he
497
00:27:00.450 --> 00:27:03.059
was life of the party, but not obnoxious at all.
498
00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:06.579
Just actually making people feel comfortable all the time, very
499
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:10.799
socially apt and that sort of shit. Um, people who
500
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.940
they said he'd also like, you know, he was very boisterous. Yeah.
501
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.180
But not obnoxious. Yeah. And there's a line there. There's
502
00:27:19.220 --> 00:27:23.329
a very thin line where that treads into obnoxiousness. Oh, yeah.
503
00:27:23.369 --> 00:27:25.549
Big time. And he doesn't apparently he stays on the
504
00:27:25.589 --> 00:27:28.950
right side of that line. People said that, you know,
505
00:27:29.009 --> 00:27:31.450
if you were sad, he'd make you laugh. He'd always
506
00:27:31.490 --> 00:27:35.650
be smiling. His one cousin said, He was just like
507
00:27:35.690 --> 00:27:39.160
an angel. Just the sweet, sweet man that he was.
508
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:41.839
He was always making you laugh. He'd get out on
509
00:27:41.859 --> 00:27:45.619
the dance floor with you at the movies and just
510
00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:50.869
dance around. What movies have dance floors? Huh. I've seen, like,
511
00:27:50.930 --> 00:27:54.029
tables where they bring food in and shit, but... Well,
512
00:27:54.369 --> 00:27:57.730
maybe they mean, like, drive-in? Is there a dance thing there?
513
00:27:59.130 --> 00:28:01.950
I can't think of another place where there's a movie. That's...
514
00:28:02.809 --> 00:28:04.579
That's about as good a thing as I can't think
515
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:06.420
of anything better. Yeah, maybe the– I don't know.
516
00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:09.839
I can't imagine whatever their AMC is.
517
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.700
Yeah, he'd get you out on the dance floor with
518
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:14.559
you or he'd get out on the dance floor with
519
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:17.349
you at the movies and just dance around. Take that
520
00:28:17.380 --> 00:28:18.970
for whatever it is. I don't know what that means.
521
00:28:19.109 --> 00:28:21.609
But apparently it's fun. That's a translation here.
522
00:28:21.769 --> 00:28:22.390
It's a good time.
523
00:28:22.890 --> 00:28:25.730
And, you know, he was just always saying something funny.
524
00:28:27.140 --> 00:28:30.980
as he gets older even into, like, the early 2000s. So,
525
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:34.960
you know, he's in his 50s, pushing 60. He's very active.
526
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:38.789
Everybody said he really likes his cars. He likes hanging
527
00:28:38.829 --> 00:28:41.529
out with his family. He plays a lot of weekend
528
00:28:41.569 --> 00:28:42.890
pickup basketball games.
529
00:28:43.250 --> 00:28:43.829
Is that right?
530
00:28:43.890 --> 00:28:46.690
Oh, yeah. In his 50s. In his 50s. So, yeah. Oh, God,
531
00:28:46.750 --> 00:28:49.430
I hated those guys. Hated playing against those guys. They're
532
00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:54.220
the sweatiest men. Yeah. Their shirts are soaked. Either that
533
00:28:54.289 --> 00:28:55.789
or they take their shirt off and you have to
534
00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:58.589
have your forearm into their sweaty back hair. Those are
535
00:28:58.609 --> 00:29:01.589
the options. Those guys are brutal. I'm not saying that's him.
536
00:29:01.869 --> 00:29:05.789
Their body's so slippery. It's slippery and it's heavy in
537
00:29:05.809 --> 00:29:08.829
a weird way. As a teenager, I hated that when
538
00:29:08.849 --> 00:29:09.849
the older guys were playing.
539
00:29:09.869 --> 00:29:12.609
And they always want to lean their shoulders into you
540
00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:14.529
like Shaquille O'Neal. It's like, bro.
541
00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:17.630
It's to put their sweat on you. They know you're
542
00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:19.450
going to lean back. Oh, God, you're not going to
543
00:29:19.470 --> 00:29:20.309
let that touch your face.
544
00:29:21.069 --> 00:29:22.190
We're not getting paid, man.
545
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:25.299
No. Horrible, especially in Arizona. Horrifying.
546
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.240
I don't want you on me.
547
00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:31.339
Oh, god damn. So, yeah, he liked to pick up
548
00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:34.390
games of basketball. His one cousin said that's all he'd
549
00:29:34.430 --> 00:29:38.390
talk about. He loved playing basketball. His stepbrother said he
550
00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:40.819
was one of the best guys you'd ever meet. He
551
00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:43.839
also said he never touched drugs, but he does like
552
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:47.980
to drink. That he likes, as we'll talk about. He
553
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.269
enjoyed cars as well as his other passion. He likes cars,
554
00:29:52.349 --> 00:29:56.549
particularly loves old Corvettes. Really? As a guy who was
555
00:29:56.589 --> 00:29:59.680
born in 1945, that makes sense. Because, I mean, when
556
00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:05.150
those Corvettes came out, they were hot shit. It was
557
00:30:05.190 --> 00:30:07.849
like an experiment, that car. No other car looked like that.
558
00:30:07.890 --> 00:30:08.289
No.
559
00:30:08.349 --> 00:30:11.289
And they still don't. You got, like, the 63 with
560
00:30:11.309 --> 00:30:13.410
the split window, as cool as fuck, and they're a
561
00:30:13.410 --> 00:30:13.910
cool car.
562
00:30:14.029 --> 00:30:19.599
I mean, through their evolution, no car looked like them
563
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:23.779
at all. Even the Camaro, when it had the slanted nose,
564
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:25.559
it still weighed.
565
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.960
The fuck off. Yeah. Didn't look like that. No, totally different.
566
00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:29.059
And Dodge never had an answer.
567
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:29.140
No.
568
00:30:29.660 --> 00:30:32.589
Ford never had an answer. Foreign cars never had an
569
00:30:32.670 --> 00:30:37.490
answer until now. Now Corvettes are competing with every supercar
570
00:30:37.529 --> 00:30:38.789
on the planet. That's what they are now.
571
00:30:39.069 --> 00:30:44.329
It was always like a bullet until it– that's what
572
00:30:44.349 --> 00:30:46.210
it looked like. And then in the late 70s, they
573
00:30:46.450 --> 00:30:48.980
put like a four-cylinder in it, for Christ's sake, and
574
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.920
that didn't work out well. And then in the 80s,
575
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:56.309
you got those terrible– Those terrible fucking square ones from
576
00:30:56.349 --> 00:31:01.430
the 80s that are just awful. A guy who doesn't
577
00:31:01.470 --> 00:31:04.069
pay his alimony drives one of those. You know what
578
00:31:05.269 --> 00:31:05.670
I mean?
579
00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:11.450
I think that's exactly what Sam Kennison died in was
580
00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:12.599
an 80s Corvette.
581
00:31:12.670 --> 00:31:15.980
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know you're going to die
582
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:17.299
in it when you get it. It's one of those.
583
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.839
It's a bad car. So Alan loved his family. People said, too,
584
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.940
loved hanging out with his family. Here, one of his
585
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.720
relatives said he'd just pop in, and we'd say, we're
586
00:31:26.769 --> 00:31:29.009
going to plant a garden today, and he'd just jump
587
00:31:29.069 --> 00:31:32.329
in and help. Yeah. Yeah, that's what he's into. He's
588
00:31:32.369 --> 00:31:37.829
into whatever. He also likes to drink. Okay. Everybody knows
589
00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:40.950
he drinks, and he wouldn't tell you otherwise. He's not
590
00:31:40.970 --> 00:31:43.920
going to say he's a teetotaler by any stretch. He
591
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.579
likes to drink. He is the type of guy that
592
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:50.130
people say that, You never really see him drunk, but
593
00:31:50.150 --> 00:31:52.589
he always has a beer in his hand. Yeah. I'm
594
00:31:52.609 --> 00:31:54.730
going to call it right now. He's a koozie man.
595
00:31:56.619 --> 00:31:57.539
He's a koozie man.
596
00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:01.160
Unless it's a mixed drink, but yeah, I'll bet he
597
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:01.980
does have a koozie.
598
00:32:02.059 --> 00:32:03.619
Always has a beer in his hand. It's always beers.
599
00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:05.880
Always beers. He's a beer guy. I mean, he'll drink
600
00:32:05.980 --> 00:32:07.500
once in a while. There's shit if other people are
601
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:09.640
drinking it, but you see him, he's got a beer.
602
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.579
That's a koozie guy. There's a koozie in his glove box. Yeah,
603
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:15.599
because we talked about it. My dad always has a
604
00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:19.490
beer in his hand, but he's never drunk. Because that's koozie, guys.
605
00:32:20.299 --> 00:32:22.380
They have a koozie because it keeps the beer cold.
606
00:32:22.420 --> 00:32:24.099
That way they don't– because that's why you end up
607
00:32:24.180 --> 00:32:26.259
pounding the beers because it starts to cool down. It
608
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.039
starts to warm up a little bit and you're like, gross.
609
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:30.319
So you drink it before it gets too cold or
610
00:32:30.339 --> 00:32:32.559
too warm. But if you have a koozie, you can
611
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:34.549
nurse a beer for two hours and then get another one.
612
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:36.099
You can always have a beer and never get drunk.
613
00:32:36.700 --> 00:32:39.779
It's great. So that's what he does. That's what I
614
00:32:39.819 --> 00:32:44.440
understand is that's– He loves a beer. He'll drink all day,
615
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:47.839
but he'll never be noticeably hammered. No, no, no, no.
616
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.099
He's not a messer. He's never sloppy or anything like
617
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.210
that from what I understand. One of his cousins said, too,
618
00:32:53.329 --> 00:32:56.630
at his age, if you would have seen him, you
619
00:32:56.650 --> 00:32:59.940
wouldn't have thought he was that old. He was very healthy, skinny.
620
00:33:00.019 --> 00:33:04.190
He was very, very active. Skinny, too. Yeah, despite drinking
621
00:33:04.210 --> 00:33:06.950
because he's playing pickup basketball all weekends and his job
622
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.700
is landscaping and physical work. So he stays in pretty
623
00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:15.680
good shape. So in 2005, this in-shape guy, picture a
624
00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:18.140
little bit of gold on him. Sure. Fun guy.
625
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:19.680
A little bit of beer on his breath.
626
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:22.599
Oh, yeah. Koozie out of his pocket. Asked him if
627
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:24.779
he needed one. You bet.
628
00:33:24.819 --> 00:33:26.900
Corvette keychain hanging out of his pocket.
629
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:32.440
Corvette koozie. Yeah. You know that's what's on there. It
630
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:35.099
says got vet on it. Yeah, there's a Chevy symbol
631
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:38.640
with got vet in the middle. But he's an easy
632
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:40.329
Christmas present because you know you can just get him
633
00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:42.210
some Corvette shit and he'll eat it up. Oh, my God.
634
00:33:42.289 --> 00:33:44.329
Amazon's full of that guy's gift.
635
00:33:44.349 --> 00:33:49.430
No problem. Easy done. Now, 2005, he goes to a
636
00:33:49.490 --> 00:33:54.339
friend's wedding and meets a lady. All right. At the wedding, so.
637
00:33:54.869 --> 00:33:57.470
Good for him. He meets a young lady, a little
638
00:33:57.490 --> 00:33:59.809
bit younger than him, about 13 years younger than him,
639
00:34:00.430 --> 00:34:05.240
named Tammy Louise Smith Engelman. Engelman is her, she just
640
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.000
got divorced a little while ago, and Engelman's her divorce name,
641
00:34:08.019 --> 00:34:11.099
but Tammy Louise Smith. But he meets her. She's a
642
00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:16.639
certified nursing assistant, CNA. She's a single mother with teenagers,
643
00:34:18.110 --> 00:34:21.010
two older, that are kind of out of the house
644
00:34:21.409 --> 00:34:24.199
and like in college or whatever, and then one that
645
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:25.679
is almost college age.
646
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:28.230
So she's in her 30s, almost 40s?
647
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:29.219
Yeah.
648
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:30.559
She's in her 40s.
649
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:34.460
58, so she would be 47 at this point. Yeah,
650
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:37.840
she's 47. 13 years. Yeah, he's born 45, she's born
651
00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:41.889
in 58. Oh, got it. Yeah. Now, she's in her
652
00:34:41.909 --> 00:34:45.869
late 40s, but she, everybody says, is a stunner. Really?
653
00:34:45.889 --> 00:34:50.800
She's a real stunner. Her ex-husband... Her ex-husband has some
654
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.480
descriptions about her, but who's ex... If I asked your ex-wife,
655
00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:58.610
describe Jimmy, you wouldn't want... Don't you dare. You would
656
00:34:58.650 --> 00:35:01.929
not want what she said being public, I'm sure. And
657
00:35:01.989 --> 00:35:04.070
if I asked you, well, I have... I didn't need
658
00:35:04.090 --> 00:35:06.280
to ask you, actually. You just tell me. But if...
659
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.800
The things you say about her. So, you know, exes
660
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:14.239
you can't really trust. Yeah. You don't need to give
661
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:18.349
Jimmy too much prompting. He'll give you his opinion on it.
662
00:35:18.630 --> 00:35:19.469
Have you ever been married?
663
00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:20.610
Boy, have I.
664
00:35:20.690 --> 00:35:23.210
Boy, let me tell you something. You turn around, there's
665
00:35:23.250 --> 00:35:26.070
a spinning bar stool that's empty. The guy ran away.
666
00:35:26.090 --> 00:35:31.579
He's like, oh, he knew it was coming. Have I ever.
667
00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:34.019
Let me tell you a story. Hey, where'd you go?
668
00:35:34.860 --> 00:35:35.039
Hey.
669
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:43.039
So this is Don Engelman, her ex-husband, described her as, quote,
670
00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:46.119
a very beguiling, shrewd person.
671
00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:48.429
Those are not good words.
672
00:35:48.550 --> 00:35:51.510
Read between those lines. And you barely even have to
673
00:35:51.550 --> 00:35:55.070
read between them because the words themselves are pretty close
674
00:35:55.110 --> 00:35:58.610
to being between the lines anyway. Shrewd is what you'd
675
00:35:58.670 --> 00:36:02.659
call like a con man. Yep. Who screwed you over
676
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:05.340
like a shrewd businessman to me means he fucks people
677
00:36:05.460 --> 00:36:06.340
over to get ahead.
678
00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.150
That's a guy that's into business to a point of
679
00:36:09.369 --> 00:36:12.150
stealing yours and not giving a dime of his. That's
680
00:36:12.210 --> 00:36:13.949
what that guy is.
681
00:36:14.210 --> 00:36:17.309
He also says, quote, I'm not a psychiatrist, which is
682
00:36:17.349 --> 00:36:19.050
a great way to start a sentence, by the way.
683
00:36:19.090 --> 00:36:20.300
But I feel like she needs one.
684
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:24.280
I'm not a doctor, but he said, I'm not a psychiatrist,
685
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.679
but she falls under the definition or category of a sociopath.
686
00:36:29.179 --> 00:36:33.570
trying to figure out how to avoid society's rules and regulations. Yeah.
687
00:36:33.889 --> 00:36:37.250
Which is, I could put that description on a lot
688
00:36:37.289 --> 00:36:40.170
of people I know. Yeah. You're always trying to get
689
00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:42.800
around something. You know what I mean?
690
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:47.900
It also means unfeeling. You don't feel things that normal
691
00:36:47.940 --> 00:36:48.539
people feel.
692
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:51.280
More psychopath is not feeling.
693
00:36:52.190 --> 00:36:55.210
Sociopath no empathy yeah that's the word yeah.
694
00:36:55.070 --> 00:36:58.429
Yeah empathy that's more attached to psychopath sociopath is more
695
00:36:58.590 --> 00:37:02.469
tenant it's not it's not a diagnosis it's a it's features.
696
00:37:02.139 --> 00:37:04.460
Of something your crate yeah.
697
00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:06.900
Traits trait it's a trait more than a like a
698
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.260
psychopath would be a diagnosis sort of sociopath is really
699
00:37:10.300 --> 00:37:14.280
a diagnosis yeah it's that's like you could put a
700
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.960
label of that that person's a psychopath without empathy a
701
00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:22.030
sociopath is A little more nebulous from what I understand. Again,
702
00:37:22.329 --> 00:37:26.570
I'm not a psychiatrist. We're not doctors here by any stretch, everybody.
703
00:37:27.070 --> 00:37:29.989
I was not diagnosed as one. Don't mistake that we are.
704
00:37:30.050 --> 00:37:32.570
I know you were probably watching this thinking, wow, these
705
00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:35.670
two gentlemen are doctors. We're not. I'll tell you right now.
706
00:37:36.110 --> 00:37:39.670
They're discussing the subtle nuances between psycho slash socio.
707
00:37:40.050 --> 00:37:43.389
We dropped out last week of residency, so we're not
708
00:37:43.429 --> 00:37:46.139
quite doctors, but we're not doctors and we don't know shit.
709
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:47.280
Got to be boring and tedious.
710
00:37:47.670 --> 00:37:52.349
Yeah, but traits of murderers are something that we have studied.
711
00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:53.650
I'm pretty good at that.
712
00:37:54.349 --> 00:37:58.139
Yeah, I would say you could put most psychiatrists up
713
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:00.599
against us sitting here. We'd probably know just as much
714
00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:02.639
about a lot of that shit just from doing almost
715
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:08.400
700 episodes of this. It's a lot. So now Tammy,
716
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.880
she's divorced, obviously, but she doesn't look like she's in
717
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.650
her late 40s either. Okay. She always wears makeup and
718
00:38:14.670 --> 00:38:19.519
wears her hair very careful, always dressed nicely. And according
719
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:23.699
to other people, too, she's been medically enhanced as well. Oh.
720
00:38:24.260 --> 00:38:28.719
She's had a tummy tuck, breast implants, and more. The
721
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.550
whole nine. And more. So I don't know if that's
722
00:38:31.610 --> 00:38:35.429
the ass or what. Or the lips. She's really getting
723
00:38:35.510 --> 00:38:39.909
after it. Don Engelman, her ex-husband, said she was attractive.
724
00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:44.619
She could fix herself up to be a knockout. She
725
00:38:44.659 --> 00:38:47.440
was what they call a good catch, according to people
726
00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:50.380
in the area. A good looker, as they said. That's
727
00:38:50.420 --> 00:38:57.929
her ex-husband. A good looker. She's a good looker, everybody.
728
00:38:58.300 --> 00:38:59.670
He said she's a good catch.
729
00:38:59.730 --> 00:39:01.889
Well, here's the thing. By looks.
730
00:39:02.409 --> 00:39:04.849
You'd want to fuck her, right? That's what she is.
731
00:39:05.809 --> 00:39:09.159
That's what he broke it down to. Yeah. According to
732
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:13.739
her friend, Jennifer Melton, she's also very generous. This is
733
00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.099
her friend Jennifer said, there was one Christmas where I
734
00:39:16.119 --> 00:39:17.960
was a little short on money and my kids were
735
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:22.710
younger and she left $ 300 for my kids. Tammy always
736
00:39:22.730 --> 00:39:25.489
seemed like a really great person and a really great friend.
737
00:39:27.190 --> 00:39:31.480
Now it was Jennifer who introduced Tammy. to Alan at
738
00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:35.199
the wedding. She felt the two, and this wasn't just
739
00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:38.460
a random, you know, they were talking, this guy walked up, hey,
740
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.840
you don't know Alan, this is Alan, Alan, Tammy. She
741
00:39:41.030 --> 00:39:42.989
purposely went out of her way to make sure to
742
00:39:43.150 --> 00:39:46.530
make these two connect and to introduce them. She said
743
00:39:46.570 --> 00:39:51.909
that she thought they both had matching personalities. Interesting. Friendly, outgoing,
744
00:39:51.989 --> 00:39:55.750
also very kind. And Alan was also attractive and he
745
00:39:55.769 --> 00:39:58.269
looked younger than he was too. So she thought this
746
00:39:58.329 --> 00:40:03.360
is a perfect match. One of Alan's ex-girlfriends, Maribeth, said
747
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:05.719
he was the type of guy who when you walked
748
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.159
into a room, when he walked into a room, you
749
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:12.969
turned around and noticed. You noticed him. Alan was. Alan was.
750
00:40:13.030 --> 00:40:15.929
You rarely hear that about a guy. No, exactly. Yeah,
751
00:40:15.949 --> 00:40:18.570
because who the hell cares? Right. Yeah.
752
00:40:18.849 --> 00:40:19.429
That's what I mean.
753
00:40:19.789 --> 00:40:22.730
Whole room's full of dicks. We don't care. Yeah.
754
00:40:22.909 --> 00:40:23.949
Oh, look, another one.
755
00:40:24.829 --> 00:40:29.460
Great. So people said Alan's very confident, and he also
756
00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:31.599
has a great ability to make people feel good about
757
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:33.820
themselves and feel good. So these two seem to be
758
00:40:34.059 --> 00:40:35.079
a match made in heaven here.
759
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:36.360
Yeah.
760
00:40:36.380 --> 00:40:40.090
And they get together, and I mean– They hit it
761
00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:41.070
off immediately.
762
00:40:41.349 --> 00:40:42.050
Good for Al.
763
00:40:42.349 --> 00:40:47.099
They are into it. Crazy part is they are at
764
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:51.699
the altar getting married in 12 weeks. 12 weeks. That's
765
00:40:51.739 --> 00:40:53.340
three months, everybody.
766
00:40:54.099 --> 00:40:54.639
Way too quick.
767
00:40:54.940 --> 00:40:58.690
Fast. Imagine that. Three fucking months. I guess if you're
768
00:40:58.750 --> 00:41:00.710
older and you think you're, hey, this is great.
769
00:41:01.570 --> 00:41:03.869
Yeah, but get me in my 60s and have me
770
00:41:03.909 --> 00:41:06.320
look at a gal that looks great naked and wants
771
00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:08.010
to show it to me a lot, I'm going to
772
00:41:08.210 --> 00:41:10.429
take her to the altar before she can change her mind.
773
00:41:10.929 --> 00:41:12.829
That's what I mean. He's 60 years old this year.
774
00:41:12.849 --> 00:41:16.110
So I think if you're older, you might just be like, ah, well,
775
00:41:16.150 --> 00:41:18.469
if we get along, what are we wasting time for?
776
00:41:18.550 --> 00:41:23.619
I'm 60. So that's it. And they barely knew each other,
777
00:41:23.659 --> 00:41:27.659
but they're in there. Now, Alan's family, according to his cousin,
778
00:41:27.699 --> 00:41:30.320
was worried about this marriage from the beginning because it
779
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:33.159
was such a fast thing. We're like, what's going on? But,
780
00:41:33.179 --> 00:41:36.599
I mean, he is 60. He's 19. He could probably
781
00:41:36.619 --> 00:41:38.599
make his own decisions by now, I would say, right?
782
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:41.019
He's been in the Navy.
783
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:48.380
If not now, when? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, anyway,
784
00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:52.340
they said they were a little skeptical. His cousin, Zyla, said,
785
00:41:52.420 --> 00:41:56.659
I think Alan's heart was 100% in it. Tammy's, I
786
00:41:56.719 --> 00:42:00.360
think she was just in it for one thing. What
787
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.030
is it? What do you think?
788
00:42:03.909 --> 00:42:06.289
There's only two things that women are in the store, right?
789
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:11.340
That's the sad part. As guys, that's what we think.
790
00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:13.920
Does she want money or does he have a great dick?
791
00:42:14.059 --> 00:42:19.860
Which one? That's it. Yeah. That's pretty funny. No. Money.
792
00:42:20.860 --> 00:42:21.199
All right.
793
00:42:21.340 --> 00:42:25.960
They think it's money because Alan looks to be.
794
00:42:26.260 --> 00:42:27.550
Looks like a million bucks.
795
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:31.309
But he also lives in a motel. So by the
796
00:42:31.349 --> 00:42:34.090
time you marry someone, you know, they live in a motel.
797
00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:36.389
I would think you'd been to their, to their room.
798
00:42:37.190 --> 00:42:40.590
You'd think this guy isn't wealthy. I get that. He
799
00:42:40.630 --> 00:42:42.489
has a nice watch and shit, but he probably bought
800
00:42:42.510 --> 00:42:44.650
that in better times. You know what I mean? Obviously
801
00:42:44.690 --> 00:42:47.690
this isn't the best time right now, but, um, yeah,
802
00:42:47.710 --> 00:42:49.969
his cousin's Isla said, if you looked at Alan, he
803
00:42:50.070 --> 00:42:53.489
looked rich the way he carried himself, the clothes he wore,
804
00:42:53.530 --> 00:42:58.170
the jewelry he wore, he looked rich, but that's it. Um,
805
00:42:58.659 --> 00:43:01.059
According to a friend of Allen's, Tammy had likely been
806
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:04.760
attracted to Allen's money and what she thought that he
807
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.840
probably had based on what he looked. Yeah. According to
808
00:43:08.860 --> 00:43:11.969
his cousin, David, he said after he got out of
809
00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:14.269
the Navy, he worked on an oil field, I think,
810
00:43:14.369 --> 00:43:16.869
out in Oklahoma. He said, but he was just juggling
811
00:43:16.909 --> 00:43:19.510
a bunch of jobs like he wasn't rich at all. Yeah.
812
00:43:19.849 --> 00:43:22.780
So he said that she was barking up the wrong tree, basically.
813
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:26.860
I mean, he lived rent free in a hotel. Yeah. Good.
814
00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:28.320
I mean, he's a sick watch.
815
00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:29.000
If I had that.
816
00:43:29.420 --> 00:43:31.579
Oh yeah. I don't have to pay any rent. Holy shit.
817
00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:33.789
I'll tell you my Corvette would be in top tier shape.
818
00:43:35.309 --> 00:43:38.030
He said everyone was really happy for them because they
819
00:43:38.090 --> 00:43:41.090
really seemed in love and very, very happy. So we
820
00:43:41.130 --> 00:43:44.510
were all like, this is great. It's a friend of his. Um,
821
00:43:45.130 --> 00:43:47.679
and he, he didn't seem like he was being dragged
822
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:50.500
into it. He's the one that proposed within a month
823
00:43:50.539 --> 00:43:54.340
of them meeting and, They get married and the cousin
824
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:56.440
said she wanted a honeymoon and she wanted to go
825
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:57.019
to Hawaii.
826
00:43:58.139 --> 00:43:58.539
Okay.
827
00:43:58.659 --> 00:44:01.989
That's what she wanted. And so they went. Now, they
828
00:44:02.070 --> 00:44:06.230
went on Tammy's credit card. That's how they did this. Tammy,
829
00:44:06.250 --> 00:44:09.269
you didn't know? This is interesting. Yeah. So they have
830
00:44:09.309 --> 00:44:13.309
a great time. When the honeymoon ended, apparently she expected,
831
00:44:13.829 --> 00:44:16.889
according to her people that know her, she expected Alan
832
00:44:16.929 --> 00:44:20.050
to reimburse her for what she'd spent on the trip. Yeah,
833
00:44:20.070 --> 00:44:20.250
but what?
834
00:44:20.590 --> 00:44:21.789
What's yours is mine. What's mine is yours.
835
00:44:22.070 --> 00:44:24.989
Yeah. So she's like, at least, you know, half of it, whatever.
836
00:44:25.539 --> 00:44:28.300
She also demanded that he move out of this hotel
837
00:44:28.340 --> 00:44:30.480
where he lived for free and buy a house with her.
838
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:32.880
Let's get a big home in a nice neighborhood. This
839
00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:35.159
is ridiculous. We need to, she still has a daughter
840
00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:38.760
living at home, you know, so she wanted that. Um,
841
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.650
the cousin said he knew it was over his means
842
00:44:41.710 --> 00:44:44.159
and it was over her means. They both knew it,
843
00:44:44.449 --> 00:44:46.789
but he did it for her. He bought the house.
844
00:44:46.949 --> 00:44:48.409
So he bought a house. He's going to figure out
845
00:44:48.449 --> 00:44:52.699
how to pay for it. Essentially. Oh, Yeah, which is tough.
846
00:44:53.179 --> 00:44:55.360
The one thing that she couldn't really get Alan to
847
00:44:55.420 --> 00:44:58.590
do because, you know, she– I mean, think about it.
848
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.159
She can pretty much direct him where she wants. And
849
00:45:01.340 --> 00:45:03.760
if you love somebody, you'll listen to them as part
850
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:04.159
of it too.
851
00:45:04.590 --> 00:45:08.909
Yeah, there's compromise. There's a talk and figuring out common ground.
852
00:45:09.489 --> 00:45:14.769
So– but she could not get him to stop drinking. Yeah.
853
00:45:15.010 --> 00:45:17.150
She didn't want him to drink and he was like, oh, no,
854
00:45:17.269 --> 00:45:21.059
I drink. That's what– I've done this for a long time.
855
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:23.500
This is part of my personality. You know what I mean?
856
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:27.559
This is not changing. No. See this koozie? The Corvette
857
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:29.659
on it? These are the two things I like. I'm
858
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:33.659
a koozie man. I can't not drink. I'm a koozie man.
859
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:35.679
What am I going to do with all these koozies?
860
00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:38.489
What am I going to put in these? I mean,
861
00:45:38.510 --> 00:45:40.949
what am I going to do? Please change. Make them
862
00:45:40.969 --> 00:45:43.130
into flower pots? I can do nothing with these things.
863
00:45:43.750 --> 00:45:46.260
It's a bunch of... What is that, like neoprite or
864
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:47.150
whatever the fuck it's called?
865
00:45:47.170 --> 00:45:48.309
Neoprene of some sort?
866
00:45:48.329 --> 00:45:48.809
Neoprene.
867
00:45:49.429 --> 00:45:50.590
I don't think it's biodegradable.
868
00:45:50.630 --> 00:45:52.829
Squishy shit? No, no, no. I think it sticks around forever.
869
00:45:52.989 --> 00:45:54.550
I think you've got to dispose of them in the
870
00:45:54.590 --> 00:45:56.570
same place you put batteries, right? Yeah.
871
00:45:57.059 --> 00:45:59.000
Otherwise a turtle will get it stuck in his face.
872
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:03.199
Yeah. There's koozie recycling centers you can go to and
873
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:05.500
special like the battery ones. Yeah, they chip them up
874
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:07.809
and pay freeways with them. Yeah, yeah. They use it
875
00:46:07.869 --> 00:46:11.619
as mulch sometimes, I feel like. It's cushy. So he said,
876
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:14.539
this is a friend of his, said, this man who
877
00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:17.139
drank very often, every time I saw him, he had
878
00:46:17.179 --> 00:46:21.630
a beer in his hand. Yeah. That's fair. Now, Tammy's
879
00:46:21.670 --> 00:46:24.170
got her youngest daughter still living at home when they
880
00:46:24.210 --> 00:46:27.730
get married. This daughter will be a constant source of
881
00:46:28.269 --> 00:46:35.579
problems for Alan and Tammy here. A lot of friction. Apparently,
882
00:46:35.619 --> 00:46:39.590
she's very disrespectful toward him, which... She's like a late teen,
883
00:46:39.610 --> 00:46:44.780
like 16. And now I'm stepdad. Yeah. Sorry, dude. I
884
00:46:44.820 --> 00:46:48.000
don't know you. You met my mom three fucking months ago.
885
00:46:48.019 --> 00:46:50.219
It's not like they've been dating for a few years
886
00:46:50.260 --> 00:46:52.500
and you're used to him. He's just some guy you
887
00:46:52.539 --> 00:46:54.639
just met. And now this is your new dad or
888
00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:57.960
this is your stepdad. I'm 16. I've seen her tits
889
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.420
more than you have. Shut up. Yeah. Fuck that. Yeah,
890
00:47:01.460 --> 00:47:05.500
that's that's ridiculous. So I would I don't think I
891
00:47:05.539 --> 00:47:07.269
would have reacted well to that as a 16 year old.
892
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:09.760
I don't know that I'd be like.
893
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:10.849
Some strange guy coming in.
894
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:12.300
Yeah, we're not going to be pals.
895
00:47:12.619 --> 00:47:15.179
Yeah, you're not going to tell me what to do, certainly. No.
896
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:16.900
You've earned none of that. What is that, a koozie
897
00:47:16.940 --> 00:47:18.519
in your pocket? Get the fuck out of here. No,
898
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:21.719
I don't need a koozie. I'm fine right now. I'm 16.
899
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.550
I can't even drink beer. So she disrespected him a lot.
900
00:47:25.650 --> 00:47:29.389
And Tammy spoiled her kids from what people said, too.
901
00:47:30.409 --> 00:47:33.309
And said that she let her daughter treat Alan like
902
00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:37.320
complete shit. She didn't say, hey, you know, yeah, he
903
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.679
doesn't tell you what to do and everything, but, you know,
904
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.739
at least respect him for the guy who owns the
905
00:47:41.780 --> 00:47:44.119
fucking house with me and helps pay the mortgage. And
906
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:48.300
she didn't do that. So Tammy's daughter was an issue
907
00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:52.050
and Alan's drinking and Tammy is, you know, pissed off
908
00:47:52.110 --> 00:47:54.570
at that. And Tammy's got a problem of her own.
909
00:47:55.750 --> 00:47:59.590
And it's spending. Oh. She doesn't drink. She likes to
910
00:47:59.690 --> 00:48:03.739
spend money. She's a shopper. Shit. And she likes to
911
00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:07.000
do that. She likes to get clothes all the time.
912
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.800
She'll go out on huge shopping sprees that she can't afford. Absolutely. Financially,
913
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:16.880
they're in deep shit. They have creditors calling all the time. Oh, boy.
914
00:48:16.940 --> 00:48:17.639
It's not good.
915
00:48:18.099 --> 00:48:18.849
It's so new.
916
00:48:20.019 --> 00:48:23.619
This is immediately. I mean, we're talking car payments overdue,
917
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:28.349
credit cards, this, that, everything overdue. The house is getting
918
00:48:28.409 --> 00:48:32.429
close to pushing into the foreclosure area. Already. Already. It's
919
00:48:32.469 --> 00:48:36.510
not good. Um, also, um, the youngest daughter is going
920
00:48:36.530 --> 00:48:38.530
to go off to college and the tuition was coming
921
00:48:38.570 --> 00:48:41.719
due and they didn't have that either. And it's a lot. Now,
922
00:48:41.900 --> 00:48:44.940
Alan recently had started a new job with a glass
923
00:48:44.980 --> 00:48:49.719
installation company. This is at the request of Tammy. Also,
924
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:53.139
Tammy wanting him to stop bouncing around from job to
925
00:48:53.179 --> 00:48:55.500
job and get a solid career that he, she can
926
00:48:55.539 --> 00:48:57.500
count on that. He'll be there and she'll know his
927
00:48:57.539 --> 00:48:59.420
salary and they'll know what he's going to make every
928
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:02.539
year and all that kind of shit. Um, So he
929
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:05.820
does that. He tries to placate her and do that
930
00:49:05.940 --> 00:49:11.559
and everything like that. Now, Tammy, she likes to shop.
931
00:49:11.619 --> 00:49:14.750
Like I said, she likes clothes. She likes plastic surgery.
932
00:49:15.090 --> 00:49:17.610
She likes expensive shit that makes her look better. That's
933
00:49:17.630 --> 00:49:18.090
what she likes.
934
00:49:18.110 --> 00:49:19.329
So.
935
00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:23.079
She started hitting the mall all the time, just shopping
936
00:49:23.099 --> 00:49:27.389
it up. And she kept a secret bank account. But
937
00:49:27.469 --> 00:49:31.530
that doesn't really matter because there's not basically she's got
938
00:49:31.690 --> 00:49:33.849
bills that she can't pay that are normal bills. And
939
00:49:33.869 --> 00:49:37.090
then she's trying to also run up credit cards on.
940
00:49:37.579 --> 00:49:39.659
clothes and shit like that. They said she had clothes
941
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:40.820
she never even took out of the closet.
942
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:44.260
She has money to make a secret bank account when
943
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:47.699
we don't have enough money to pay for the other accounts.
944
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.179
Yeah. Yeah. This is what I mean. This is like
945
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:52.599
an addiction. Like if he was putting money aside for
946
00:49:52.619 --> 00:49:54.519
like pills or something, you know what I mean? Or
947
00:49:54.559 --> 00:49:57.039
whatever the fuck it was, it'd be a similar thing.
948
00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:01.670
And this is her, her thing here. And her ex-husband
949
00:50:01.730 --> 00:50:04.090
said she would get it under control for a little bit.
950
00:50:04.469 --> 00:50:06.750
And then she turned right back around and just start
951
00:50:06.809 --> 00:50:10.489
over again. like people like addicts do. That's what happens.
952
00:50:10.570 --> 00:50:14.900
So he said that was pretty tough. Um, so they're
953
00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:17.800
a year into their marriage. This is early 2007 and
954
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:21.719
they're bickering all the time. Tammy and Alan, um, just
955
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:24.260
more fighting than anything else is what a friend said.
956
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.489
They're just fighting constantly. Now, Tammy's family owns a pretty
957
00:50:28.550 --> 00:50:33.409
substantially sized farm, pretty big farm. And she told Alan,
958
00:50:33.429 --> 00:50:37.349
she's going to one day inherit this whole thing. And, um,
959
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:40.760
So Alan was like, oh, you know, that's also here.
960
00:50:40.949 --> 00:50:44.590
There's money down the line, some relief eventually. But, I mean,
961
00:50:44.630 --> 00:50:46.449
who knows how long her parents will live. That could
962
00:50:46.489 --> 00:50:50.409
be– forget it. So during all this, there's a lot
963
00:50:50.429 --> 00:50:52.530
of turmoil. They've only been married a year and change.
964
00:50:52.550 --> 00:50:56.170
There's a bunch of turmoil, financial turmoil, just a lot
965
00:50:56.210 --> 00:51:00.469
of things, fighting with the teenage daughter, bickering. Things aren't great.
966
00:51:00.489 --> 00:51:04.260
It's a 90-day– relationship turned into a marriage.
967
00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:07.050
That's not good. That's crazy. Yeah, that is great. It's funny.
968
00:51:07.070 --> 00:51:08.989
Cause if you watch a 90 day fiance, you go,
969
00:51:09.030 --> 00:51:11.969
this is too soon. It's just too soon. And those
970
00:51:12.030 --> 00:51:16.349
people knew each other sometimes for years online and over
971
00:51:16.369 --> 00:51:18.630
video chats and all that shit for years. And you
972
00:51:18.650 --> 00:51:21.130
still go, this is way too soon. Too soon. This
973
00:51:21.219 --> 00:51:24.619
is incredibly too soon. They never even saw each other before.
974
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.800
That's crazy. So she ends up, here's the problem. Um,
975
00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:34.119
She has a patient of hers as a CNA who's
976
00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:39.059
an older guy. And this patient's son is an insurance
977
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:47.050
agent named Gary Ruddle, R-U-D-D-E-L-L. And this Gary Ruddle comes
978
00:51:47.090 --> 00:51:50.150
to see his father or mother or whoever is in
979
00:51:50.170 --> 00:51:54.230
there that she's working on. And Tammy takes a liking
980
00:51:54.250 --> 00:51:59.119
to Gary. Oh, boy. So much so that they're having
981
00:51:59.179 --> 00:52:00.860
a pretty torrid affair pretty quickly.
982
00:52:01.309 --> 00:52:01.809
Really?
983
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:06.260
Oh, yeah. People, the neighbors started noticing a man coming
984
00:52:06.300 --> 00:52:08.420
and going from the house during the day while Alan's
985
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:08.780
at work.
986
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:11.239
Jesus.
987
00:52:11.820 --> 00:52:14.139
So one of the neighbors told Alan about it. It
988
00:52:14.380 --> 00:52:18.610
was like, hey, you know, which, by the way, that
989
00:52:18.670 --> 00:52:21.389
is how a murder suicide with people that I know
990
00:52:21.449 --> 00:52:24.130
happened up the street for me. Right. It was exactly that.
991
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:28.170
was somebody don't tell them hey um what's the words
992
00:52:28.190 --> 00:52:30.750
we always say to people the three the big three
993
00:52:30.789 --> 00:52:35.050
words mind your own fucking business your business mind your
994
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.559
fucking business all of you I know you want to
995
00:52:38.579 --> 00:52:40.719
help and that's great and that's a nice instinct but
996
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:43.420
you don't know what this could unravel you know what
997
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:43.800
I mean.
998
00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:47.300
They'll figure it out. And when they do, that's on them.
999
00:52:47.800 --> 00:52:52.130
It's none of your goddamn business. Either way. Yeah. So
1000
00:52:52.670 --> 00:52:54.949
a neighbor comes to you and says, did you ever
1001
00:52:55.030 --> 00:52:55.389
see her?
1002
00:52:55.489 --> 00:52:57.289
Oh, I thought you knew.
1003
00:52:57.309 --> 00:53:00.349
Oh, yeah. What are you talking about? Bro, it was
1004
00:53:00.389 --> 00:53:03.250
so fucking obvious. I just figured I figured it was,
1005
00:53:03.449 --> 00:53:05.719
you know, your guys's business. I don't know what you
1006
00:53:05.739 --> 00:53:07.099
guys are into. You know, I don't know.
1007
00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:08.599
Relationships happen nowadays.
1008
00:53:08.659 --> 00:53:11.949
It's fine. Yeah. Yeah, but this happened a while ago
1009
00:53:12.409 --> 00:53:16.090
around Christmas, actually. People I met at a Christmas party there,
1010
00:53:17.010 --> 00:53:17.840
exact same thing.
1011
00:53:17.860 --> 00:53:19.199
Like two days before.
1012
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.039
Two days before, except the opposite of this because they
1013
00:53:22.059 --> 00:53:25.179
had been married for 40-something years, almost 50 years, rather
1014
00:53:25.219 --> 00:53:28.519
than barely knew each other. And same thing. He caught it.
1015
00:53:29.119 --> 00:53:32.039
He came home and– It was a murder-suicide, and it
1016
00:53:32.059 --> 00:53:34.840
was ugly. Sold all his tools or gave them away.
1017
00:53:34.900 --> 00:53:37.579
Gave them away. Yeah, yeah. It's a crazy thing. I
1018
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:40.820
was telling people at the shop, you know, take my tools.
1019
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:43.000
You just have all this. It's like, okay, you know
1020
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:45.420
that something's going to happen if somebody's giving all the
1021
00:53:45.460 --> 00:53:46.659
tools of their trade away.
1022
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.789
Right. Nobody gives away all of their tools. Even the Crescent?
1023
00:53:50.889 --> 00:53:51.510
Even the Crescent.
1024
00:53:51.670 --> 00:53:54.989
All right. What's the matter with you? Especially while they're sobbing. Yeah. Yeah.
1025
00:53:57.760 --> 00:53:58.619
Jesus Christ.
1026
00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:00.179
The star tools? The hex heads?
1027
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:04.039
You're giving me those? No. Come on, man. All of them? No, no, no.
1028
00:54:04.059 --> 00:54:07.159
I'm not buying it. Yeah. Hey, let's sit down.
1029
00:54:07.530 --> 00:54:08.199
Let's have a beer.
1030
00:54:08.409 --> 00:54:12.170
I got a koozie. Hey. This one's for you. This
1031
00:54:12.210 --> 00:54:15.650
one's for you. Hands it out. Hey, hold on a minute.
1032
00:54:16.269 --> 00:54:18.170
There you go. Hey, what do you want? What do
1033
00:54:18.190 --> 00:54:22.349
you want? Corvette or Chevy logo? Which one? I'll let
1034
00:54:22.369 --> 00:54:22.769
you pick.
1035
00:54:22.849 --> 00:54:25.630
Corvette or just all Chevy products encompassed.
1036
00:54:25.650 --> 00:54:27.440
Yeah, yeah. Just a straight Chevy one.
1037
00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:29.559
That's a sketch.
1038
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:30.900
Yeah.
1039
00:54:31.460 --> 00:54:35.909
That's a mental health sketch.
1040
00:54:35.989 --> 00:54:40.570
Yes, it is. Just always carry two koozies. And scene.
1041
00:54:41.130 --> 00:54:41.989
What do you think, guys?
1042
00:54:42.329 --> 00:54:42.409
Good?
1043
00:54:42.429 --> 00:54:43.550
We did it.
1044
00:54:43.650 --> 00:54:45.929
And the wife and kids survive, all because he had
1045
00:54:45.969 --> 00:54:46.730
two koozies.
1046
00:54:47.010 --> 00:54:49.960
He had multiple koozies. See what happens when you bring
1047
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.300
koozies around? This is why my father's lived a long
1048
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.360
and happy life, I think, because he's always got multiple
1049
00:54:54.420 --> 00:54:58.239
koozies on him. Yeah. So Alan comes home and catches
1050
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:03.460
Tammy in the middle of it. Uh-oh. Oh, no. Catches
1051
00:55:04.219 --> 00:55:07.139
somebody else in the middle of it. Well, she's in there, too.
1052
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:09.489
Certainly, but he's in between it.
1053
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:14.360
So his name is Gary Ruddell, of course, as we met,
1054
00:55:14.380 --> 00:55:17.539
or Gary Ruddell there, the insurance salesman, one of Tammy's sons,
1055
00:55:17.820 --> 00:55:23.099
our patient's sons. And there they go. Wow. Alan finds
1056
00:55:23.219 --> 00:55:26.929
out about it, and He decides that the only thing
1057
00:55:26.969 --> 00:55:31.389
he really does to— he doesn't leave or anything, but he
1058
00:55:31.550 --> 00:55:34.690
closes their joint bank account and opens a bank account
1059
00:55:34.769 --> 00:55:38.289
solely in his name. Like, okay, well, you're not shopping
1060
00:55:38.309 --> 00:55:43.469
with my money anymore, essentially. He's pissed off, basically. And
1061
00:55:43.489 --> 00:55:45.719
apparently he makes more money than her. CNAs do not
1062
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:47.480
make a lot of money at all. No, that's the
1063
00:55:47.659 --> 00:55:51.980
bottom rung of nursing. Very little money. They're literally ass wipers.
1064
00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:53.519
That's what they do. A lot of it. I mean,
1065
00:55:53.539 --> 00:55:53.840
they do.
1066
00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:56.780
They do tough work, believe me. They do a lot, yeah.
1067
00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:59.980
But it's a lot of bottom rung work. They don't
1068
00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:02.570
do IVs. They're just doing awful stuff.
1069
00:56:02.630 --> 00:56:04.550
And that's not to disrespect it because if you've ever
1070
00:56:04.610 --> 00:56:08.789
had a parent or a grandparent or anybody relative in
1071
00:56:08.869 --> 00:56:11.829
any kind of like long-term care or anything like that,
1072
00:56:12.010 --> 00:56:14.739
these are the people that keep them alive and keep
1073
00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:16.119
them running and everything else.
1074
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:19.179
But the point is that job is where you start
1075
00:56:19.219 --> 00:56:22.840
for your RN thing or on your way back down.
1076
00:56:23.179 --> 00:56:25.050
Yeah. Why would you go back down?
1077
00:56:25.070 --> 00:56:27.630
It's not showbiz. If you're done nursing and you just
1078
00:56:27.650 --> 00:56:28.690
want to– You get.
1079
00:56:28.429 --> 00:56:31.110
A sitcom and then from there you do this and
1080
00:56:31.130 --> 00:56:33.050
then you're back to stand up on the– You've lost
1081
00:56:33.090 --> 00:56:37.809
your audience. That's not how real jobs work. It's when
1082
00:56:37.849 --> 00:56:40.170
an RN gets caught in a sex scandal. Yeah, then
1083
00:56:40.190 --> 00:56:41.110
they knock you down to it.
1084
00:56:41.110 --> 00:56:43.690
When they're caught DMing people on Snapchat.
1085
00:56:44.050 --> 00:56:46.909
And then after that it's a CNA. What's the middle rung?
1086
00:56:46.929 --> 00:56:49.710
Because there's a CNA and an RN. LPN. Yeah, yeah.
1087
00:56:49.730 --> 00:56:51.889
There you go. They become an LPN. They go back
1088
00:56:51.929 --> 00:56:57.690
down again. That's a very sad downfall of nurses. There
1089
00:56:57.730 --> 00:57:02.429
that is. You go back down. You said it like
1090
00:57:02.449 --> 00:57:04.050
it was a comedy club. This is where you either
1091
00:57:04.110 --> 00:57:05.570
come up or go back down, guys.
1092
00:57:09.170 --> 00:57:10.369
That's so fun.
1093
00:57:10.710 --> 00:57:13.030
Oh, the chuckle factory in Toledo? Yeah, that's an up
1094
00:57:13.050 --> 00:57:15.280
or down, you know. Not when you're up here.
1095
00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:16.760
Yeah, you get on the way up or on the
1096
00:57:16.780 --> 00:57:19.480
way down. You'll see Pauly Shore there this weekend.
1097
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:20.880
You might see somebody that's going to be on Saturday
1098
00:57:20.900 --> 00:57:25.880
Night Live in six years. It's possible. Yeah. Jesus Christ.
1099
00:57:27.699 --> 00:57:29.679
Or just got off of Saturday Night Live. Yeah. I've
1100
00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:35.269
seen from people, you know. So anyway, that's what's going
1101
00:57:35.389 --> 00:57:40.829
on here. Alan and they're, you know, they're fighting a lot, basically.
1102
00:57:41.170 --> 00:57:44.780
He's apparently, he moves out of the house. But this
1103
00:57:44.860 --> 00:57:49.260
is not to end it. He wants a reconciliation. He
1104
00:57:49.300 --> 00:57:51.750
wants to fix this. Yeah. He's still coming over to
1105
00:57:51.789 --> 00:57:54.150
mow the lawn and do all that shit. He still
1106
00:57:54.190 --> 00:57:56.150
helps out around the house. And he tells his friends
1107
00:57:56.170 --> 00:57:58.230
that they're getting back together. They're just going through a
1108
00:57:58.389 --> 00:58:02.590
rough patch. Poor Al. That's humiliating. That's where Gary was
1109
00:58:02.630 --> 00:58:04.309
in the middle of, too, a rough patch. He was
1110
00:58:04.349 --> 00:58:07.789
in there, too. That's in the rough over there. So
1111
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:11.469
Tammy was telling friends that she wanted Gary back. And
1112
00:58:11.489 --> 00:58:13.230
that she was done with Alan and that she's not
1113
00:58:13.269 --> 00:58:15.889
getting back together with him at all. She's just taking
1114
00:58:15.909 --> 00:58:21.550
the lawn mowing. Now, there's an incident here where Tammy
1115
00:58:22.050 --> 00:58:25.030
allegedly gets a call from her youngest daughter, the one
1116
00:58:25.070 --> 00:58:28.219
who still lives at home, claiming Alan was drinking and
1117
00:58:28.300 --> 00:58:28.599
hit her.
1118
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:29.920
Okay.
1119
00:58:30.059 --> 00:58:32.340
Which kind of goes against what everybody says of his character.
1120
00:58:32.380 --> 00:58:34.739
But when people are drinking, you never know. Anything's possible.
1121
00:58:35.340 --> 00:58:37.739
She's also a disrespectful little shit. That's true. So maybe
1122
00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.900
he got drunk and she mouthed off and he– If
1123
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:42.320
you've got a mouthy teenager and a person who you
1124
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:45.489
know drinks all the time, you could see something happening there.
1125
00:58:45.610 --> 00:58:49.150
It's possible. Two and two equals four there.
1126
00:58:49.730 --> 00:58:51.090
And he may not have even hit her. He just
1127
00:58:51.110 --> 00:58:53.829
may have walked through a door and went, nah. Just
1128
00:58:53.849 --> 00:58:55.190
made contact.
1129
00:58:54.690 --> 00:58:58.030
With her face. The officers who responded to the call
1130
00:58:58.420 --> 00:59:01.059
found no marks because she reported to the police that
1131
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:03.179
he was drunk and violent. The cops came. They found
1132
00:59:03.300 --> 00:59:06.829
no marks at all on Tammy's daughter. Right. And they
1133
00:59:06.949 --> 00:59:09.250
filed no charges or did nothing because they said, and
1134
00:59:09.289 --> 00:59:11.630
this is in the 2000s. 2000s, so they said, this
1135
00:59:11.690 --> 00:59:14.469
is bullshit, and they left. They didn't, you know, think
1136
00:59:14.510 --> 00:59:17.280
that anything happened. But Alan spent the night at a
1137
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:19.659
hotel at the request of the authorities, and then he
1138
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:23.199
returned home. This is when he moves out for good
1139
00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:25.639
for a while. He returned home to find that the
1140
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:30.420
locks had been changed. Oh, what? Yeah, so now they're
1141
00:59:31.860 --> 00:59:35.420
not quite their second wedding anniversary, and they already have
1142
00:59:35.579 --> 00:59:39.570
changed locks, which is a bad sign. Gangs being played. Yeah.
1143
00:59:39.860 --> 00:59:43.449
But Alan wanted to make this work. His friend said,
1144
00:59:43.489 --> 00:59:46.030
I think Alan truly loved Tammy, and when you truly
1145
00:59:46.090 --> 00:59:49.769
love someone, it's hard to cut that off. Yeah. Now,
1146
00:59:49.829 --> 00:59:53.269
Tammy has some problems at her job. She was working
1147
00:59:53.329 --> 00:59:57.079
at Miller's Merry Manor, which is a nursing home in Columbus. Sure.
1148
00:59:57.530 --> 01:00:02.610
And the charge nurse, Charles Rose, you know, his talk
1149
01:00:02.630 --> 01:00:05.269
show was on hiatus. So he was doing this.
1150
01:00:05.989 --> 01:00:08.389
Did he get fired unceremoniously, Charlie Rose?
1151
01:00:08.449 --> 01:00:11.769
Yes. He had some accusations, let's just say.
1152
01:00:11.789 --> 01:00:13.449
Maybe this is what he's doing now.
1153
01:00:14.139 --> 01:00:16.199
This is what he was doing. In 2007, he was
1154
01:00:16.219 --> 01:00:21.139
still in a black background talking to celebrities. So he's
1155
01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:25.030
on the way back down. That's how it works. First
1156
01:00:25.050 --> 01:00:27.070
you have your own talk show, and then you have
1157
01:00:27.110 --> 01:00:29.070
to be a charge nurse. And then if you fuck
1158
01:00:29.130 --> 01:00:32.260
up more, you're a CNA. And then you're out of
1159
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:35.579
the business. That's how it works. It's over. And if
1160
01:00:35.619 --> 01:00:37.780
you want to have your own talk show for decades
1161
01:00:37.820 --> 01:00:39.300
at a time, you've got to start as a CNA.
1162
01:00:39.340 --> 01:00:41.099
That's how it goes. That's the way up the rungs.
1163
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:42.920
That's it. It's not our rules.
1164
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:44.039
We just live by them.
1165
01:00:44.550 --> 01:00:48.369
So Charles Rose said that he left a nearly full
1166
01:00:48.449 --> 01:00:57.409
bottle of Roxanol, R-O-X-A-N-O-L, on a hospice patient's bedside table. Now,
1167
01:00:57.670 --> 01:01:02.179
Roxanol is insanely strong liquid morphine.
1168
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:03.159
And they say, is it syrup?
1169
01:01:03.199 --> 01:01:07.679
It is syrup, yeah. It's wild. It comes in an eyedropper. Oh, God.
1170
01:01:07.900 --> 01:01:12.179
An eyedropper bottle with a lavender-colored liquid. And it is apparently...
1171
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:18.539
It's insane. It's used for dying patients in extreme pain
1172
01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:22.480
in their last days of lives. Yeah, it's literally you're
1173
01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:26.909
dying of cancer, some horrible disease, and it's to just
1174
01:01:27.010 --> 01:01:29.570
make you comfortable for your last couple days as you die. Wow.
1175
01:01:29.949 --> 01:01:32.849
That's what it's for. And from what I understand, they
1176
01:01:32.909 --> 01:01:35.570
say a lot of times they– sometimes people who are
1177
01:01:35.630 --> 01:01:37.429
in really bad states, they give them a little bit
1178
01:01:37.449 --> 01:01:39.050
of extra of this to kind of push it along
1179
01:01:39.090 --> 01:01:41.260
a little bit. Yeah. They kind of push the envelope
1180
01:01:41.300 --> 01:01:42.719
of what they can give them to put them out
1181
01:01:42.739 --> 01:01:46.809
of their misery type of deal. So that's what it's
1182
01:01:46.909 --> 01:01:50.530
used for. It's extremely potent. A therapeutic dose is measured
1183
01:01:50.570 --> 01:01:54.110
in the low hundreds of nanograms per milliliter.
1184
01:01:54.889 --> 01:01:55.889
Tiny bits.
1185
01:01:56.110 --> 01:01:58.719
Very, very, very tiny doses.
1186
01:01:58.739 --> 01:01:59.880
This shit is strong.
1187
01:02:00.980 --> 01:02:03.900
Now, this Charlie Rose went to get the bottle after lunch.
1188
01:02:03.940 --> 01:02:05.880
She realized he left it there and was like, oh, shit.
1189
01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:08.099
And it was gone.
1190
01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:09.119
No!
1191
01:02:09.940 --> 01:02:12.780
Now, Tammy was the only staff member present in the
1192
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:16.019
wing at that time, but they didn't have any evidence
1193
01:02:16.059 --> 01:02:18.380
she took it or anything. And when asked, Tammy said
1194
01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:20.059
she never even saw the bottle, has no idea what
1195
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:22.539
anybody's talking about. Didn't see it. I don't know. I
1196
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:24.159
was over in the other part of the wing. I
1197
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:28.130
have no clue. She suggested maybe a visitor took it.
1198
01:02:28.900 --> 01:02:33.030
That's possible. Somebody came in to visit anybody. She said
1199
01:02:33.050 --> 01:02:35.750
this patient's daughter comes to visit all the time. Maybe
1200
01:02:35.789 --> 01:02:38.349
it's the daughter that did it. But Charlie Rose.
1201
01:02:38.789 --> 01:02:42.420
It's much, much less the who took it and more
1202
01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:45.019
the who the fuck left it out to be taken.
1203
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:46.559
Well, that's a problem.
1204
01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:47.159
That looks bad.
1205
01:02:47.179 --> 01:02:48.800
Who left it out? It all looks bad. This is
1206
01:02:48.860 --> 01:02:53.070
all terrible and irresponsible. And now Charlie Rose knew that
1207
01:02:53.090 --> 01:02:54.789
the daughter couldn't have done it because the daughter is
1208
01:02:54.829 --> 01:02:58.449
a school teacher who never visits during the day. Oh.
1209
01:02:58.550 --> 01:03:00.010
I mean, it could have been a half day. These
1210
01:03:00.050 --> 01:03:02.750
kids have so many half days, by the way. And
1211
01:03:02.769 --> 01:03:05.619
days off. And days off. It's crazy how many half
1212
01:03:05.659 --> 01:03:08.420
days and days off. They just don't. What's the point?
1213
01:03:10.400 --> 01:03:10.989
God damn it.
1214
01:03:11.500 --> 01:03:14.840
The half day for my daughter is literally an hour less.
1215
01:03:14.900 --> 01:03:17.019
It's like, why don't we just stay?
1216
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:17.599
What are we doing?
1217
01:03:17.619 --> 01:03:19.460
What are we doing? Yeah. Why bother?
1218
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:20.559
This is so dumb.
1219
01:03:20.940 --> 01:03:22.820
Unless they're getting out at like 11 a.m., what are
1220
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:23.530
we talking about?
1221
01:03:23.860 --> 01:03:27.250
It fucks my whole day to get there earlier.
1222
01:03:27.289 --> 01:03:32.030
It ruins everything. It's hard. Now, the director of nursing
1223
01:03:32.110 --> 01:03:35.610
at Miller's Mary Manor later told investigators, the last day
1224
01:03:35.650 --> 01:03:38.090
she worked for us, we were really concerned because we
1225
01:03:38.130 --> 01:03:40.820
had a bottle of morphine sulfate turn up missing.
1226
01:03:41.500 --> 01:03:43.360
And now morphine's gone.
1227
01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:47.119
Yeah. Now, there's another issue here in the summer of 2007.
1228
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:50.090
So this is months later. That was March of 2007.
1229
01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:51.719
In the summer of 2007, you know, Tammy had left
1230
01:03:51.739 --> 01:04:02.289
that job. She apparently was at Alan's cousin's house, Zyla Thompson,
1231
01:04:02.309 --> 01:04:06.210
who we got a lot of quotes from. Apparently, Zyla
1232
01:04:06.690 --> 01:04:09.949
would always leave a large bottle of Flexeril on the
1233
01:04:10.030 --> 01:04:13.550
table just inside her front door. Oh. In case she
1234
01:04:13.590 --> 01:04:16.460
was out of like mini Snickers during Halloween. It's, you know,
1235
01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:18.539
you got to give the kids something. They'll throw eggs
1236
01:04:18.579 --> 01:04:19.519
at your house. You know what I mean?
1237
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:20.960
Is it Flexeril like for.
1238
01:04:21.539 --> 01:04:26.559
Flexeril. Yeah, it's a muscle relaxer. Yeah. And a prescription one.
1239
01:04:29.510 --> 01:04:31.750
You can't buy it over the counter. It's nothing like that.
1240
01:04:31.809 --> 01:04:35.480
It's strong shit. So she leaves that for some reason,
1241
01:04:35.539 --> 01:04:38.000
always just leaves a big bottle of it there just
1242
01:04:38.059 --> 01:04:42.280
in case. In case anybody needs a Flexeril or two.
1243
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:45.840
She had a block party during this time that both
1244
01:04:46.019 --> 01:04:49.050
Alan and Tammy attended. This is while they talk for
1245
01:04:49.090 --> 01:04:50.590
a minute, then they're mad at each other, then they
1246
01:04:50.630 --> 01:04:56.099
talk and they're mad. Now, after the party... The Flexerol
1247
01:04:56.619 --> 01:05:00.429
is way less full than it was before the party, which,
1248
01:05:00.510 --> 01:05:02.329
I mean, that shows it's a good party, right?
1249
01:05:03.269 --> 01:05:06.269
It also shows that that shit works, yeah.
1250
01:05:06.349 --> 01:05:09.949
Yeah. She says that she estimated– this is how big
1251
01:05:09.989 --> 01:05:12.980
this bottle of Flexerol is, by the way. She estimated
1252
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:14.840
somewhere between 100 to 200 pills were gone.
1253
01:05:16.619 --> 01:05:17.940
What, you get this from Costco?
1254
01:05:17.980 --> 01:05:20.440
I mean, it's got to be the size of a
1255
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:25.139
fucking protein powder thing. A creatine jug. It's got to
1256
01:05:25.179 --> 01:05:28.059
be ridiculous. Does it have a scoop inside, too? That's
1257
01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:30.590
so much. I got about 30, 40 of them in there,
1258
01:05:30.610 --> 01:05:32.530
and you scoop it into your morning shake. I don't
1259
01:05:32.550 --> 01:05:35.300
know what's going on. But that's a lot of pills
1260
01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:37.960
right there. I don't know what the average prescription is,
1261
01:05:37.980 --> 01:05:40.500
but it's got to be less than 200 pills, right?
1262
01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:45.760
I can't imagine you got 200 pills.
1263
01:05:45.820 --> 01:05:50.539
This can't be a prescription one. How unrelaxed are her muscles? Yeah.
1264
01:05:50.739 --> 01:05:55.110
How fucking tight are you, lady? What the fuck? So
1265
01:05:55.750 --> 01:05:59.750
early August 2007. Okay. So that goes by. So now
1266
01:05:59.849 --> 01:06:03.369
Tammy's been around drugs disappearing in two separate places.
1267
01:06:03.389 --> 01:06:03.500
A lot.
1268
01:06:04.150 --> 01:06:09.809
Okay. Now, when Tammy invites Alan over and says, listen,
1269
01:06:09.829 --> 01:06:12.969
you need to come over and sign some papers. It's
1270
01:06:13.030 --> 01:06:15.900
related to mortgage insurance, so you need to sign it.
1271
01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:20.260
It's important. She told him that, listen, once the daughter
1272
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:22.960
moves out and goes to college, maybe we can try
1273
01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:25.760
and reconcile this and see if it works together, if
1274
01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:29.139
we're here by ourselves and all that kind of thing. But,
1275
01:06:29.579 --> 01:06:32.110
you know, you need to sign this mortgage insurance paper.
1276
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:33.630
That's going to help out a lot, too. Yeah.
1277
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:36.739
And also after the mortgage crisis, they were making us
1278
01:06:36.780 --> 01:06:38.199
have fucking insurance.
1279
01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:43.480
Exactly. Exactly. 2007. That makes sense this whole time. And
1280
01:06:43.579 --> 01:06:46.679
so he said he would sign the mortgage insurance policy.
1281
01:06:47.219 --> 01:06:52.349
No problem. Basically, one of them said, quote, he couldn't
1282
01:06:52.389 --> 01:06:54.769
move home. This is somebody they knew. He couldn't move
1283
01:06:54.829 --> 01:06:57.230
home until he could prove. Oh, this is Tammy. I'm sorry.
1284
01:06:57.550 --> 01:06:59.849
He couldn't move home until he could prove to me that,
1285
01:06:59.909 --> 01:07:02.429
number one, He could hold down a job for a
1286
01:07:02.449 --> 01:07:06.860
long period of time and get good evaluations. She's looking
1287
01:07:06.900 --> 01:07:11.280
at his fucking. What? She's looking at his quarterly fucking. Yeah,
1288
01:07:11.300 --> 01:07:13.880
we're looking at my report card. What are we doing?
1289
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.099
And that he had to not necessarily quit drinking totally,
1290
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:20.400
but not drink on a daily basis. Okay.
1291
01:07:20.420 --> 01:07:21.760
There needs to be some improvement.
1292
01:07:22.179 --> 01:07:27.480
Some improvement shown. Yeah. And somebody said later she said
1293
01:07:27.539 --> 01:07:30.099
that she was encouraging Alan to go home and said
1294
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:34.449
he would later. And he was drinking and drinking quite heavily.
1295
01:07:34.750 --> 01:07:38.369
This was after the insurance thing. So he signs the
1296
01:07:38.409 --> 01:07:41.349
paper and then he's leaving now. Also there while he
1297
01:07:41.409 --> 01:07:44.510
signs the paper, Gary Ruttle. Yeah, because he wrote the
1298
01:07:44.809 --> 01:07:48.280
insurance policy. He wrote the policy. I'm not signing shit. Well,
1299
01:07:48.300 --> 01:07:51.500
I call this guy balls deep because I found him
1300
01:07:51.539 --> 01:07:54.219
balls deep in my life. I'm not signing shit where
1301
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:56.349
you get a cut. You get commission off of this?
1302
01:07:56.429 --> 01:07:56.949
Fuck you.
1303
01:07:57.409 --> 01:07:59.889
I'm not signing anything with the donut filler here.
1304
01:08:00.230 --> 01:08:04.869
No, not at all. Yeah. So anyway, that's what's going
1305
01:08:05.010 --> 01:08:07.849
on here. And he's telling friends and coworkers that once
1306
01:08:07.889 --> 01:08:10.130
the daughter goes off to college, we're going to get
1307
01:08:10.170 --> 01:08:12.190
back together and everything's going to be fine. And the
1308
01:08:12.409 --> 01:08:15.530
daughter's going to college like in September. So this is
1309
01:08:15.670 --> 01:08:20.569
early August. So it's happening. But he also said that
1310
01:08:20.590 --> 01:08:24.560
he was getting kind of suspicious of Tammy and her motivations.
1311
01:08:24.890 --> 01:08:29.489
He told apparently friends and neighbors in August, basically, and
1312
01:08:29.529 --> 01:08:32.970
in July of 2007 that if you ever find me dead,
1313
01:08:33.229 --> 01:08:37.100
just make sure it's thoroughly investigated. That's all. So I'm
1314
01:08:37.119 --> 01:08:39.340
in pretty good shape besides the drinking. So, you know,
1315
01:08:40.460 --> 01:08:44.159
that's what he said. Man. Make sure they thoroughly investigate
1316
01:08:44.180 --> 01:08:45.680
it if I get found dead in a weird way.
1317
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.899
That seems to be a very common thing to say
1318
01:08:48.939 --> 01:08:49.359
to people.
1319
01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:50.859
People say that all the time.
1320
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:54.680
I've heard it. So many times in these stories, dateline,
1321
01:08:54.680 --> 01:08:57.680
48 hours. I think our last story, somebody said that.
1322
01:08:58.689 --> 01:08:58.909
Yeah.
1323
01:08:59.449 --> 01:08:59.949
Fun Ted.
1324
01:09:00.020 --> 01:09:02.239
They did it. Or have a look at them or whatever.
1325
01:09:02.739 --> 01:09:05.479
Yeah. They even, yeah, who to look at. They even
1326
01:09:05.510 --> 01:09:07.649
give you a goddamn, I'll give you a lead on
1327
01:09:07.750 --> 01:09:11.109
my future murder investigation. In my will. It'll tell you
1328
01:09:11.149 --> 01:09:13.810
to look at. Even Chris Watts' wife said that. That
1329
01:09:13.850 --> 01:09:16.210
shit-ass lady said it. It happens all the time. It
1330
01:09:16.229 --> 01:09:23.319
really does. Now, August 23rd, 2007. Okay. Alan comes over
1331
01:09:23.399 --> 01:09:28.199
to Tammy's home here on Lake Crest Drive, the family house. Okay. Now,
1332
01:09:28.659 --> 01:09:31.760
Tammy asked him to come over to work on an
1333
01:09:31.859 --> 01:09:35.380
air conditioning unit that wasn't working right in the Indiana
1334
01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:39.479
heat in August. It's sticky in Indiana, real sticky. So
1335
01:09:39.560 --> 01:09:43.029
Tammy made dinner for him and them. You know, that's
1336
01:09:43.090 --> 01:09:47.359
nice of her. She describes the dinner as, Chicken salad,
1337
01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:52.840
fresh fruits and vegetables, and her signature dessert. This is
1338
01:09:52.899 --> 01:09:56.539
her dessert that she loves. It's her jam. And it
1339
01:09:56.560 --> 01:10:02.180
is chocolate dirt pudding. Why do they have to have
1340
01:10:02.359 --> 01:10:06.000
terrible names, all these desserts? It's a dump cake. It's
1341
01:10:06.020 --> 01:10:10.699
a shit pile. It's a fucking... Dump cake's the worst.
1342
01:10:11.569 --> 01:10:15.170
It's all a dump dirt. I don't want any of that.
1343
01:10:15.630 --> 01:10:16.670
I want none of that shit.
1344
01:10:17.390 --> 01:10:20.149
And that dirt pie or dirt pudding, whatever the fuck,
1345
01:10:20.710 --> 01:10:23.130
it's not your recipe.
1346
01:10:23.250 --> 01:10:23.710
Stop it.
1347
01:10:23.869 --> 01:10:27.369
Stop acting like you're so spiced. You crumbled up some
1348
01:10:27.430 --> 01:10:30.409
fucking cookie on some jello yogurt. Jello pudding.
1349
01:10:30.729 --> 01:10:36.250
Stop acting like you did this. Oreo cookie crumbles, obviously.
1350
01:10:36.689 --> 01:10:44.449
Vanilla pudding and cream cheese crumbles. Whoa, she really, wow.
1351
01:10:44.710 --> 01:10:47.329
Boy, did you get crazy on your three ingredients.
1352
01:10:47.670 --> 01:10:50.270
She came to the fork in the road and went straight, man.
1353
01:10:50.310 --> 01:10:52.430
Just blew my mind right there. Did you see that?
1354
01:10:52.590 --> 01:10:53.430
Holy cow.
1355
01:10:53.510 --> 01:10:55.590
With an armful of three things from.
1356
01:10:55.449 --> 01:10:56.510
The grocery store.
1357
01:10:56.770 --> 01:10:57.930
And cream cheese?
1358
01:10:58.970 --> 01:11:02.710
Oh, now see, that done blowed my mind right there.
1359
01:11:03.310 --> 01:11:04.130
And cream cheese.
1360
01:11:04.409 --> 01:11:08.760
Jell-O pudding, Philadelphia cream cheese, Oreo cookies. You're telling me
1361
01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:10.659
you combine those and it's delicious?
1362
01:11:11.100 --> 01:11:15.439
Wait a second. Cream cheese? You put cream cheese in there,
1363
01:11:15.500 --> 01:11:24.420
and it was good. What you're saying is... Unbelievable. Boy, mind-blowing. Mind-blowing.
1364
01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:26.000
Way to go, Betty Crocker.
1365
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:31.000
Yeah. So she makes his plate. Yeah. He takes a
1366
01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:34.770
couple of bites of the chicken salad, one slice of tomato,
1367
01:11:34.930 --> 01:11:37.329
and then goes to the pudding and eats some of
1368
01:11:37.350 --> 01:11:41.819
the pudding. Also... She says she made him two Long
1369
01:11:41.930 --> 01:11:45.329
Island iced teas. I don't want you to drink anymore.
1370
01:11:45.489 --> 01:11:47.810
Let me make you the drink with the most booze
1371
01:11:47.850 --> 01:11:52.449
in it possible. All the alcohol. What is that? You're
1372
01:11:52.470 --> 01:11:54.850
sending mixed signals if you're making someone who you want
1373
01:11:54.899 --> 01:11:56.439
to quit drinking a Long Island iced tea.
1374
01:11:56.760 --> 01:11:59.699
I don't think there's an ingredient in that that doesn't
1375
01:11:59.800 --> 01:12:00.920
have booze in it.
1376
01:12:01.060 --> 01:12:05.199
No, it's all booze. Well, this is the thing that
1377
01:12:05.300 --> 01:12:07.739
you're going to get the sweet from. Oh, it's booze still,
1378
01:12:07.819 --> 01:12:10.680
and then the The acidity is from this. The splash
1379
01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:10.939
of the.
1380
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:15.340
Brown is soda, and that's what makes it look like tea.
1381
01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:20.020
But everything else is just booze. Yeah. So he starts
1382
01:12:20.060 --> 01:12:23.060
to get hot and goes outside. He goes outside to
1383
01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:25.380
cool down. He sits down in the lawn chair on
1384
01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.579
the back porch outside to cool down a little bit.
1385
01:12:28.619 --> 01:12:30.739
Stuffy in the house. He came to fix an air conditioner.
1386
01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:33.399
He's got an iced tea. And he falls asleep in
1387
01:12:33.420 --> 01:12:36.539
the chair out back on the lawn chair, which– Plenty
1388
01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:39.800
of 60-year-old guys have a couple of drinks after dinner
1389
01:12:39.819 --> 01:12:43.079
and fall asleep on a nice, comfy lawn chair. That'll happen.
1390
01:12:43.100 --> 01:12:44.539
Fall asleep where I sit, yeah.
1391
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:49.510
Yep. So, 8.04 a.m. the next morning. Yeah. All right.
1392
01:12:49.649 --> 01:12:57.770
August 24th. Tammy calls 911. Uh-oh. Okay. Now, 911 call.
1393
01:12:57.810 --> 01:13:01.710
She says, emergency 911, which is– they got 911. That's
1394
01:13:01.810 --> 01:13:09.949
their line. She says, emergency 911. Uh-oh. Domino's pizza. Domino's pizza? Yeah.
1395
01:13:09.970 --> 01:13:14.300
That's what we said. She said, yes, my name is
1396
01:13:14.380 --> 01:13:17.380
Tammy Duvall. I live at Lake Crest Drive, and I
1397
01:13:17.479 --> 01:13:21.399
think my husband is dead. That's what she says. She
1398
01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:25.319
tells the operator he's a heavy drinker. She says that
1399
01:13:25.340 --> 01:13:27.819
he came over the night before to fix an air conditioner.
1400
01:13:27.859 --> 01:13:30.170
This is on the phone to 911. She's giving the
1401
01:13:30.189 --> 01:13:30.649
whole story.
1402
01:13:30.970 --> 01:13:32.529
This is not necessary.
1403
01:13:32.899 --> 01:13:35.420
Nope. She said he became overheated. He went outside to
1404
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:37.800
cool down and she went and ended up falling asleep
1405
01:13:37.859 --> 01:13:39.460
and she found him in the chair the next morning.
1406
01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:40.689
That's what, this is what happened.
1407
01:13:41.010 --> 01:13:41.770
What are you doing?
1408
01:13:42.289 --> 01:13:46.029
So 820, the first responders arrive and, uh, you know,
1409
01:13:46.050 --> 01:13:50.250
it's a quiet neighborhood, everything like that. Um, they get there,
1410
01:13:50.289 --> 01:13:53.220
they find him slumped down in a lawn chair on
1411
01:13:53.229 --> 01:13:55.960
the back porch. No signs of a struggle, no signs
1412
01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:58.560
of violence, no torn shirt and there's some blood on
1413
01:13:58.600 --> 01:14:01.079
him or anything like that. Um, the back porch is,
1414
01:14:01.750 --> 01:14:05.119
Basically a concrete slab, just a little concrete slab, had
1415
01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:07.260
a couple of lawn chairs, and that's where he was sitting.
1416
01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:11.119
Eyes closed, not moving. There he is, 61 years old
1417
01:14:11.180 --> 01:14:14.939
and dead as shit. So they said no blood, no
1418
01:14:15.020 --> 01:14:17.979
signs of a struggle, no torn clothing, no defensive wounds,
1419
01:14:18.550 --> 01:14:22.130
nothing to indicate violence of any kind. They said you
1420
01:14:22.149 --> 01:14:24.770
could tell his color was off, but they said the
1421
01:14:24.810 --> 01:14:27.289
position he was in looked peaceful, looked like a guy
1422
01:14:27.329 --> 01:14:29.520
who looked like he fell asleep and didn't wake up.
1423
01:14:30.149 --> 01:14:30.810
Comfortable man.
1424
01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:34.539
It's a damn nice chair. The responding officer said, this
1425
01:14:34.600 --> 01:14:37.000
is the healthiest dead person I think I've ever seen.
1426
01:14:37.119 --> 01:14:40.600
There's no sign of trauma to the body. So there
1427
01:14:40.619 --> 01:14:46.329
we go. Police photographs show him in the chair. His
1428
01:14:46.409 --> 01:14:49.489
shirt is off, but we assume that because he's hot.
1429
01:14:49.590 --> 01:14:54.590
So you take his shirt off first. It's August. They
1430
01:14:54.609 --> 01:14:57.109
said he just looks like he's fine. Now, the initial
1431
01:14:57.189 --> 01:15:03.899
ruling is. Probably accidental alcohol poisoning mixed with heat exhaustion. Okay.
1432
01:15:04.119 --> 01:15:06.819
They said you mix those two together and you get
1433
01:15:06.859 --> 01:15:09.659
a guy who's 60 years old, drinks a little too much,
1434
01:15:09.720 --> 01:15:12.279
especially a bunch of different, you know, liquors in one
1435
01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:15.529
drink and then the heat exhaustion and that's what happens.
1436
01:15:15.550 --> 01:15:16.949
Sit down in a cozy chair, you're liable to never
1437
01:15:17.010 --> 01:15:17.529
wake up again.
1438
01:15:17.850 --> 01:15:21.229
That's it. Poor guy's dead. That's all. So they kind
1439
01:15:21.270 --> 01:15:23.189
of think, oh, that's tragic. That sucks.
1440
01:15:23.829 --> 01:15:24.569
Terrible even.
1441
01:15:24.710 --> 01:15:28.100
Yeah. It happens, you know, it happens. So. This is
1442
01:15:28.140 --> 01:15:31.350
the same day, August 24th, same goddamn day that they
1443
01:15:31.390 --> 01:15:34.130
found him in the chair. Tammy is already on the
1444
01:15:34.189 --> 01:15:38.189
phone trying to arrange cremation. Oh. That day.
1445
01:15:38.710 --> 01:15:39.949
We're going to burn him up now.
1446
01:15:40.489 --> 01:15:43.369
Yes. She said she wanted it done today.
1447
01:15:43.390 --> 01:15:45.850
Oh, can we do that today?
1448
01:15:45.869 --> 01:15:48.949
Yeah, because obviously cremation isn't something you make an appointment
1449
01:15:48.989 --> 01:15:50.210
for six months in the future.
1450
01:15:50.229 --> 01:15:51.050
Yeah.
1451
01:15:51.350 --> 01:15:56.380
They work on a generally- You know, however it comes schedule. Yeah.
1452
01:15:56.420 --> 01:15:59.819
You know, so usually it's, you know, tomorrow or two
1453
01:15:59.840 --> 01:16:02.420
days from now or this funeral this day. Have it
1454
01:16:02.460 --> 01:16:07.100
done before then. Instead, she said, I need it done today. Now,
1455
01:16:07.560 --> 01:16:11.630
right now. And they said that was really weird, especially
1456
01:16:11.689 --> 01:16:14.449
because Alan owned a burial plot that he wanted to
1457
01:16:14.470 --> 01:16:15.970
be buried in. Oh, yeah.
1458
01:16:15.989 --> 01:16:16.789
Then what the fuck?
1459
01:16:17.189 --> 01:16:19.569
Which is strange. He had told members of his family that.
1460
01:16:20.140 --> 01:16:23.300
He bought a burial plot and he wants a military
1461
01:16:23.359 --> 01:16:24.460
funeral because he was in the Navy.
1462
01:16:24.779 --> 01:16:25.100
Yeah.
1463
01:16:25.199 --> 01:16:26.760
So he wants the whole thing with the flag and
1464
01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:27.479
all that stuff. Yeah.
1465
01:16:27.500 --> 01:16:30.119
There's no reason to spend any money on anything.
1466
01:16:30.140 --> 01:16:30.970
And they'll do that for you.
1467
01:16:30.979 --> 01:16:31.920
The government will do this.
1468
01:16:31.979 --> 01:16:35.819
Yeah. Trust me. Yeah. My cheap ass grandmother definitely took
1469
01:16:35.859 --> 01:16:39.920
advantage of those things for her dead husbands. So she
1470
01:16:39.979 --> 01:16:44.079
said she wanted it done that day. And the detective
1471
01:16:44.119 --> 01:16:46.720
in this situation who had just looked over the scene
1472
01:16:46.739 --> 01:16:48.329
because they have to have a dead. they have to
1473
01:16:48.350 --> 01:16:50.489
have a detective sign off on the, on a dead
1474
01:16:50.529 --> 01:16:53.270
person that it's not a homicide and they can bag
1475
01:16:53.289 --> 01:16:56.149
them up basically. So this detective said she wanted to
1476
01:16:56.189 --> 01:16:57.770
have it done that day and I had to try
1477
01:16:57.810 --> 01:17:01.420
to stop it somehow. Wow. Now that's tough because she
1478
01:17:01.500 --> 01:17:04.239
is the guy, the woman's husband or the man's husband.
1479
01:17:04.300 --> 01:17:06.979
They're not legally separated or anything like that. She has
1480
01:17:07.020 --> 01:17:10.340
all the rights of a spouse. So he didn't know
1481
01:17:10.380 --> 01:17:14.340
this is detective Mark Crutchin and he's a veteran guy. Um,
1482
01:17:15.409 --> 01:17:18.010
And he said something just didn't smell right. Why does
1483
01:17:18.409 --> 01:17:20.789
he need to be cremated right this second when he
1484
01:17:20.810 --> 01:17:21.770
owns a burial plot?
1485
01:17:22.300 --> 01:17:25.060
Trying to get an Amazon Prime cremation deal done?
1486
01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:28.020
Yeah, they need it done today. No, same day. Same day.
1487
01:17:28.779 --> 01:17:29.220
Right now.
1488
01:17:29.779 --> 01:17:33.979
Right now. Domino's cremation, they call. 30 minutes or less.
1489
01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:37.979
I need it by 4 p.m.
1490
01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:42.560
The 911 call itself was just off to him. Just
1491
01:17:42.579 --> 01:17:44.949
thought it was off. Yeah. He said it wasn't anything
1492
01:17:44.970 --> 01:17:47.229
that you could name, anything where you said, oh, she
1493
01:17:47.270 --> 01:17:49.579
said that. That's wrong. But he said it was just
1494
01:17:49.619 --> 01:17:51.899
a weird vibe and it was something about it just
1495
01:17:51.920 --> 01:17:52.880
seemed staged.
1496
01:17:53.060 --> 01:17:54.140
Just kind of the whole thing.
1497
01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:58.460
This performed or something. The tone she had was of
1498
01:17:58.520 --> 01:18:01.409
a woman who knew approximately what was about to happen
1499
01:18:01.489 --> 01:18:04.210
versus a woman who had genuinely stumbled upon her husband's
1500
01:18:04.250 --> 01:18:07.350
dead body. Hmm. It didn't seem like to him like
1501
01:18:07.369 --> 01:18:09.470
she was just like, oh, my God, where's my husband call?
1502
01:18:09.529 --> 01:18:11.760
I don't know. It seemed like someone who was very
1503
01:18:11.800 --> 01:18:16.340
controlled and whatever. But you'd also think that someone from
1504
01:18:16.699 --> 01:18:20.829
a hospice nurse or a nursing home nurse death is
1505
01:18:20.890 --> 01:18:23.390
not a oh, my God, panic thing. If she walks
1506
01:18:23.449 --> 01:18:26.829
in and finds everybody dead. Yeah. You know, I get
1507
01:18:26.850 --> 01:18:29.699
this as your husband, but you'd still your initial reaction
1508
01:18:29.739 --> 01:18:32.100
wouldn't be that initial normal freak out people have when
1509
01:18:32.119 --> 01:18:32.880
they see a dead body.
1510
01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:35.859
And she's very well aware of the process of how
1511
01:18:35.899 --> 01:18:39.239
this happens because she is absolutely.
1512
01:18:38.659 --> 01:18:39.720
Changed a bedpan.
1513
01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:42.310
Come back 30 minutes later and that person is no
1514
01:18:42.350 --> 01:18:42.869
longer there.
1515
01:18:43.270 --> 01:18:47.880
For sure. Yep. So they said within the first hours
1516
01:18:47.979 --> 01:18:51.600
he places a hold on the cremation. So he gets that,
1517
01:18:51.760 --> 01:18:55.220
gets an order to stop that. And he orders an
1518
01:18:55.520 --> 01:19:00.640
autopsy to be done. And he'd like a background investigation
1519
01:19:00.699 --> 01:19:05.079
on Tammy just based on her suspicious actions here. So
1520
01:19:05.979 --> 01:19:09.609
then he starts getting phone calls. From who? Well, from
1521
01:19:09.649 --> 01:19:15.590
a lot of people. Number one, from Alan's cousins, from
1522
01:19:15.649 --> 01:19:20.750
Tammy's ex-husband, from Tammy's own daughter, from Tammy's son-in-law. The daughter?
1523
01:19:21.329 --> 01:19:23.170
Not the one from the house, the one who's already
1524
01:19:23.369 --> 01:19:26.800
moved out of the house. All of them said, look
1525
01:19:26.850 --> 01:19:27.399
at Tammy.
1526
01:19:28.100 --> 01:19:29.279
Have a look-see at mom.
1527
01:19:29.340 --> 01:19:32.020
Look, just keep an eye on her. So that's when
1528
01:19:32.039 --> 01:19:34.600
he puts the hold on the cremation and orders the autopsy.
1529
01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:37.180
And he said he listened to the 911 call over
1530
01:19:37.220 --> 01:19:39.359
and over and over again. Yeah. And he said it
1531
01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:44.310
just didn't seem right. He said that this is court
1532
01:19:44.329 --> 01:19:47.050
documents later on, said several of Tammy and Alan's family
1533
01:19:47.090 --> 01:19:50.789
members contacted the Columbus Police Department to convey their suspicions.
1534
01:19:51.869 --> 01:19:54.149
And that's when this all happened. Now, he's got to
1535
01:19:54.189 --> 01:19:58.039
wait for autopsy results because that takes a while and
1536
01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:00.619
get toxicologies and all that kind of thing. So while
1537
01:20:00.659 --> 01:20:04.520
they're waiting, Tammy keeps asking when the department planned to
1538
01:20:04.600 --> 01:20:07.899
close this investigation again. Because it's fucking up her efforts
1539
01:20:07.979 --> 01:20:12.119
to get the life insurance policy. Yeah. To cash in. Yeah.
1540
01:20:12.300 --> 01:20:14.539
It's like, I can't cash in until you close this thing.
1541
01:20:14.619 --> 01:20:16.939
So is this almost over or what? What are we
1542
01:20:16.979 --> 01:20:21.729
doing here? Then the autopsy comes back. Now, number one,
1543
01:20:22.090 --> 01:20:28.750
blood alcohol level is insane. Really? Insane. 0.4? 0.436. That
1544
01:20:28.949 --> 01:20:29.119
is a.
1545
01:20:33.810 --> 01:20:38.670
Hammered individual. That is so... That's so deadly. That is,
1546
01:20:39.050 --> 01:20:42.989
I believe, higher than John Bonham had when he died.
1547
01:20:43.390 --> 01:20:46.569
It was the Led Zeppelin's drummer who was famous for
1548
01:20:46.609 --> 01:20:49.149
being the craziest alcoholic on earth, and he died with,
1549
01:20:49.210 --> 01:20:51.470
I think, less than that in his system. If you
1550
01:20:51.489 --> 01:20:53.800
don't know who Led Zeppelin is, let's see how to
1551
01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:54.439
explain that.
1552
01:20:54.800 --> 01:20:56.000
Best cover band of all time.
1553
01:20:56.699 --> 01:21:02.430
Yeah. So... It's insane. It's an insane amount of booze
1554
01:21:02.449 --> 01:21:06.510
in your system. Yeah. My mom ruined– 0.08 is legal. Yeah.
1555
01:21:06.630 --> 01:21:10.840
My mom ruined Thanksgiving or Easter by going to a
1556
01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:14.539
wedding and being taken to the hospital with a 0.4
1557
01:21:14.539 --> 01:21:15.880
and nearly died.
1558
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:18.880
Yeah. That is– you're lucky to not die. Danger. Yeah.
1559
01:21:18.920 --> 01:21:21.989
She was in bed for like four days afterwards drinking
1560
01:21:22.029 --> 01:21:23.649
nothing but Gatorade and then throwing it up.
1561
01:21:24.130 --> 01:21:27.520
I bet. And that was consistent with Tammy's account that
1562
01:21:27.539 --> 01:21:29.640
he's a heavy drinker. He's always drinking. She made him
1563
01:21:29.659 --> 01:21:31.520
Long Island iced teas and all that kind of shit.
1564
01:21:31.579 --> 01:21:33.460
And who knows what he drank before he came over.
1565
01:21:34.359 --> 01:21:36.659
So that's consistent. But then they get to the rest
1566
01:21:36.699 --> 01:21:44.039
of the autopsy. They found that he has 6,590 nanograms
1567
01:21:44.119 --> 01:21:46.479
per milliliter of morphine in his system.
1568
01:21:47.060 --> 01:21:48.579
That doesn't happen naturally.
1569
01:21:49.090 --> 01:21:54.189
The therapeutic maximum is about 60 nanograms per milliliter. And
1570
01:21:54.210 --> 01:21:57.829
he has what? 6,590.
1571
01:21:57.829 --> 01:21:59.770
Literally a thousand times.
1572
01:21:59.789 --> 01:22:03.270
A hundred, a hundred times the therapeutic dose. Oh yeah.
1573
01:22:03.869 --> 01:22:08.270
A hundred times the therapeutic dose, which is insane. Yeah. Um,
1574
01:22:08.470 --> 01:22:13.979
also cyclobenzaprine, which is flexerol. Yeah. Flexerol. Remember that? Uh,
1575
01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:19.810
He has 3,229 nanograms per milliliter, which is about eight
1576
01:22:19.869 --> 01:22:23.609
times the therapeutic dose. Oh, boy. Now, some people, if
1577
01:22:23.649 --> 01:22:25.609
you take a lot of Flexeril, maybe you could probably
1578
01:22:25.649 --> 01:22:27.569
get up to a tolerance of that and be fine.
1579
01:22:27.609 --> 01:22:31.300
But 100 times the therapeutic dose of morphine will kill you.
1580
01:22:31.310 --> 01:22:32.689
That's so much. Period.
1581
01:22:32.970 --> 01:22:33.630
Yeah.
1582
01:22:33.770 --> 01:22:38.300
So the pathologist confirms that Alan died of a morphine overdose.
1583
01:22:38.869 --> 01:22:39.670
Not even the booze.
1584
01:22:39.989 --> 01:22:42.409
Not even the booze. They said the alcohol and muscle
1585
01:22:42.430 --> 01:22:48.039
relaxants were contributing factors. Just basically made a huge– they
1586
01:22:48.060 --> 01:22:52.039
said this would have rendered him unconscious almost immediately. And
1587
01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:55.899
it would basically kind of cut off his respiratory system
1588
01:22:55.920 --> 01:22:58.199
from the inside. Close it down, yeah. And screw him
1589
01:22:58.399 --> 01:22:59.380
all up.
1590
01:22:59.640 --> 01:23:02.039
That is not two Long Islands either.
1591
01:23:03.119 --> 01:23:06.479
No, that is way more than that. Um, they also
1592
01:23:06.579 --> 01:23:09.510
said that his stepbrother, Henry said is, you know, my
1593
01:23:09.550 --> 01:23:11.949
brother enjoys a drink or two. Don't get me wrong,
1594
01:23:12.010 --> 01:23:14.529
but he said, I've never heard him do any kind
1595
01:23:14.550 --> 01:23:16.390
of drugs. He's just not a drug guy. He's a
1596
01:23:16.409 --> 01:23:16.909
booze guy.
1597
01:23:16.930 --> 01:23:17.390
Right.
1598
01:23:17.869 --> 01:23:20.029
A lot of people are booze or drugs. And especially
1599
01:23:20.069 --> 01:23:22.609
if you're like old military guys, those guys are booze guys.
1600
01:23:22.649 --> 01:23:24.880
A lot of times they either are booze guys or
1601
01:23:24.939 --> 01:23:29.579
not booze guys. So they, um, they said Alan barely
1602
01:23:29.619 --> 01:23:33.270
had any contents in his stomach. But they did find
1603
01:23:33.329 --> 01:23:36.750
a substance consistent with the consistency of pudding in there.
1604
01:23:37.210 --> 01:23:37.590
OK.
1605
01:23:38.149 --> 01:23:41.350
OK. So this is when the detective says, let's go
1606
01:23:41.369 --> 01:23:44.060
ahead and start this homicide investigation. Now we got we
1607
01:23:44.100 --> 01:23:47.899
got a thing here. Yeah. So he immediately does this
1608
01:23:48.060 --> 01:23:50.899
and he looks into their background. And he said that
1609
01:23:51.079 --> 01:23:54.720
creditors were continually calling the marital residents to discuss the
1610
01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:59.460
delinquencies of various consumer accounts and past due vehicle payments.
1611
01:23:59.850 --> 01:24:04.609
The marital residence was a subject of foreclosure proceedings and
1612
01:24:04.789 --> 01:24:08.369
college tuition for the youngest daughter had become due and
1613
01:24:08.609 --> 01:24:12.369
weren't paid. So they looked and found that Alan had
1614
01:24:12.409 --> 01:24:15.689
recently started working with a glass insulation company and that
1615
01:24:15.750 --> 01:24:20.060
Tammy's income as a CNA wasn't nearly enough to cover
1616
01:24:20.260 --> 01:24:25.600
anything that they did basically. But Tammy was blaming Alan
1617
01:24:25.659 --> 01:24:27.359
for the money troubles even though he made a lot
1618
01:24:27.380 --> 01:24:32.060
more money. Okay. Um, she'd often complained to those around her,
1619
01:24:32.119 --> 01:24:37.619
including friends, coworkers, and her daughter that Alan was unreliable
1620
01:24:37.720 --> 01:24:41.090
and failed to play, to provide adequate contributions to the
1621
01:24:41.130 --> 01:24:45.069
family's finances. She, she told everyone that, that not a
1622
01:24:45.109 --> 01:24:48.850
man at all. So they go around asking Alan's friends
1623
01:24:48.890 --> 01:24:51.149
and family about, you know, what was he do on
1624
01:24:51.170 --> 01:24:53.050
the side? Does he take a, you know, maybe a
1625
01:24:53.090 --> 01:24:57.149
muscle relaxer here and there to chill out. Um, One here,
1626
01:24:57.930 --> 01:25:00.649
a guy named Tim Harris who worked with Alan, said
1627
01:25:00.890 --> 01:25:03.130
you couldn't even get him to take an aspirin. He
1628
01:25:03.170 --> 01:25:07.060
didn't use– he didn't believe in legal or illegal drugs.
1629
01:25:07.100 --> 01:25:09.840
He didn't like any drugs. He just liked booze. Yeah.
1630
01:25:10.819 --> 01:25:13.159
He said, I'll make it feel better. Don't worry. I
1631
01:25:13.239 --> 01:25:16.079
have a couple of sips. He said that he saw
1632
01:25:16.220 --> 01:25:19.000
Alan at a local club the night before he died,
1633
01:25:19.600 --> 01:25:21.560
and he said that Alan was planning to go to
1634
01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:24.630
his wife's house– to that next night to try to
1635
01:25:24.689 --> 01:25:27.210
reconcile their marriage. Alan thought this was a big step
1636
01:25:27.250 --> 01:25:29.670
this next day because she invited him over for dinner
1637
01:25:30.029 --> 01:25:33.090
or whatever. So she, this guy said he seemed to
1638
01:25:33.130 --> 01:25:35.449
be happy to be going back home and to work
1639
01:25:35.550 --> 01:25:42.199
at it. Um, Tammy's son-in-law, Josh Turner said he once
1640
01:25:42.279 --> 01:25:47.899
heard Tammy say something that made him a bit uncomfortable. Well,
1641
01:25:47.920 --> 01:25:53.920
they were watching an episode of CSI and, uh, In
1642
01:25:53.960 --> 01:25:58.600
the episode, a character tried to poison someone. And Tammy
1643
01:25:58.659 --> 01:26:03.260
said that the character was, quote, doing it wrong. Not
1644
01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:06.300
in it at all. Which you automatically start sliding over
1645
01:26:06.340 --> 01:26:09.890
your chair a little bit from someone. Doing it wrong?
1646
01:26:09.899 --> 01:26:12.069
What are you talking about? Doing it all wrong. Oh,
1647
01:26:12.770 --> 01:26:16.729
my God. He said he recalled the comment when he
1648
01:26:16.810 --> 01:26:19.430
found out that Alan had died. And he said it
1649
01:26:19.489 --> 01:26:24.369
gave him a trembling feeling. The heegy-beegies? The heegy-beegies, as
1650
01:26:24.590 --> 01:26:28.590
an Oregon guy would say there. So another one of
1651
01:26:29.029 --> 01:26:33.970
Tammy's daughters, Caitlin, that is that guy's wife, that son-in-law's wife,
1652
01:26:34.489 --> 01:26:38.029
said that she sent an email to Columbus Police Department
1653
01:26:38.090 --> 01:26:41.609
concerning Alan's death without knowing her husband had already called
1654
01:26:41.640 --> 01:26:47.340
the police. They independently, without even discussing it with each other,
1655
01:26:47.619 --> 01:26:51.149
both felt that they needed to contact the police. And
1656
01:26:51.210 --> 01:26:51.869
I could.
1657
01:26:51.649 --> 01:26:56.619
See calling on your mother-in-law, but calling on your own mother,
1658
01:26:57.600 --> 01:26:58.539
that tells you.
1659
01:26:58.699 --> 01:27:02.319
How bad this is. Yeah. And the fact that they
1660
01:27:02.460 --> 01:27:05.819
both felt that strongly without even like, should we call? No.
1661
01:27:05.930 --> 01:27:06.090
No.
1662
01:27:06.279 --> 01:27:08.329
They didn't even do that. They just both were like.
1663
01:27:08.449 --> 01:27:10.109
He called and was like, I'll tell her when I
1664
01:27:10.130 --> 01:27:12.529
get home, I'll deal with the backlash. And she said,
1665
01:27:12.670 --> 01:27:14.109
I'll tell him when I get home, I'll deal with
1666
01:27:14.130 --> 01:27:14.789
the backlash.
1667
01:27:15.550 --> 01:27:21.880
Already emailed. No problem. So they said later on, they'll
1668
01:27:21.899 --> 01:27:25.000
be asked, so you both independently contacted the police with
1669
01:27:25.039 --> 01:27:27.800
suspicions that your mother killed her husband? And they both said, yes,
1670
01:27:28.060 --> 01:27:30.470
that's right. You got it. So the police have to
1671
01:27:30.529 --> 01:27:34.510
talk to Tammy, obviously. So Tammy tells the cops that
1672
01:27:34.569 --> 01:27:39.010
he'd been by her home the evening before. She had
1673
01:27:39.050 --> 01:27:41.630
an air conditioner that needed repair, and he's a real
1674
01:27:41.689 --> 01:27:45.590
heavy sleeper. And since she'd moved out, he'd taken to
1675
01:27:45.630 --> 01:27:49.250
drinking even more heavily than before because she's not breaking
1676
01:27:49.289 --> 01:27:51.670
his balls about it because he's on his own. And, uh,
1677
01:27:52.390 --> 01:27:55.100
so he was drinking heavily and he just packed, passed
1678
01:27:55.180 --> 01:27:56.039
out on the back porch.
1679
01:27:56.380 --> 01:27:58.380
She said, she was like, that's where he sleeps.
1680
01:27:59.000 --> 01:28:01.100
He did. Yeah. He fell asleep on a chair and
1681
01:28:01.159 --> 01:28:02.640
you know how it is when you got a drunk,
1682
01:28:02.680 --> 01:28:04.520
you just let them sleep where they're sleeping. You're going
1683
01:28:04.539 --> 01:28:09.229
to wake them up. So it's rude. He'd, uh, She
1684
01:28:09.289 --> 01:28:12.529
said also that he'd been feeling depressed that she'd moved
1685
01:28:12.590 --> 01:28:14.850
out of their house or they don't live together anymore
1686
01:28:14.869 --> 01:28:18.579
and that they're no longer together. So that's how it goes.
1687
01:28:19.720 --> 01:28:22.079
She also said, you know, my husband drinks a lot.
1688
01:28:22.359 --> 01:28:25.560
And honestly, I'm kind of suspicious that he's been doing
1689
01:28:25.600 --> 01:28:30.649
drugs recently as well. She said in my day, he said, well,
1690
01:28:30.659 --> 01:28:33.310
what kind of drugs? And she said, I think possibly cocaine.
1691
01:28:33.970 --> 01:28:36.329
In my estimation, he's been real high.
1692
01:28:37.359 --> 01:28:39.970
That's right. So, you know, I think he's been even
1693
01:28:40.060 --> 01:28:43.239
higher than I thought. So she said, they said, well,
1694
01:28:43.279 --> 01:28:45.239
what happened when he was over there? And she said, quote,
1695
01:28:45.859 --> 01:28:48.239
I had made chicken salad and cut up fresh fruits
1696
01:28:48.279 --> 01:28:52.819
and vegetables and had made this cool pudding dessert. Cool,
1697
01:28:53.060 --> 01:28:55.960
meaning to cool it down. Yeah, meaning it had cool
1698
01:28:56.000 --> 01:29:00.409
whip on top. Cool whip, cream cheese whipped up. So
1699
01:29:00.449 --> 01:29:03.909
that's what she said. Now, they went, all right. So
1700
01:29:03.930 --> 01:29:06.260
they get her initial statement and they're like, OK, well,
1701
01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:08.239
we'll see if we can poke any holes in that.
1702
01:29:08.779 --> 01:29:11.460
Then they find out from acquaintances that Tammy's been having
1703
01:29:11.500 --> 01:29:15.359
an affair with an insurance agent. An insurance agent that
1704
01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:21.319
drafted up Alan's policy. Oh, boy. The cop's like, whoa.
1705
01:29:21.399 --> 01:29:23.000
I don't know that she's having an affair. I don't
1706
01:29:23.039 --> 01:29:25.550
know about an insurance policy. I got a lot to
1707
01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:29.449
find out. So they said Tammy had gotten involved with
1708
01:29:29.470 --> 01:29:32.909
someone else. And according to witnesses here, Tammy had been
1709
01:29:32.949 --> 01:29:36.649
saying she intended to file for divorce. Oh, boy. But
1710
01:29:36.750 --> 01:29:39.369
that she'd managed to persuade Alan to list her as
1711
01:29:39.409 --> 01:29:42.850
a beneficiary on his life insurance policy by convincing him
1712
01:29:42.890 --> 01:29:45.270
that they would eventually reconcile. This is what she told
1713
01:29:45.329 --> 01:29:47.720
her friends. I scammed him and they put me on
1714
01:29:47.729 --> 01:29:53.060
his life insurance. And the policy had been filled out
1715
01:29:53.159 --> 01:29:56.859
by hand and signed in front of a restaurant in
1716
01:29:56.880 --> 01:30:02.590
Columbus a month before Alan died. So one of the
1717
01:30:02.649 --> 01:30:06.109
worst things to come from this was Tammy's own daughter.
1718
01:30:06.829 --> 01:30:09.310
With the email. That's bad because it's like you said,
1719
01:30:09.350 --> 01:30:11.369
it's one thing to get something from the son-in-law. That's
1720
01:30:11.390 --> 01:30:14.289
like hearing from the ex-husband. My mother-in-law is a pain
1721
01:30:14.310 --> 01:30:16.710
in the ass. Okay. Well, whatever. I'm sure she is.
1722
01:30:16.949 --> 01:30:19.189
I'm sure you're not the first person to say that. Great.
1723
01:30:19.869 --> 01:30:23.569
But a woman's daughter turning her in or pushing the
1724
01:30:23.609 --> 01:30:28.300
police that way, that is serious. Um, they said that's
1725
01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:31.500
a big deal. And, uh, Tammy had once described to her,
1726
01:30:31.619 --> 01:30:36.000
she said in abstract terms, what quote the perfect murder
1727
01:30:36.079 --> 01:30:36.699
would look like.
1728
01:30:37.180 --> 01:30:37.720
Oh boy.
1729
01:30:38.180 --> 01:30:39.479
Yeah. She's been thinking about this.
1730
01:30:39.659 --> 01:30:39.930
Yeah.
1731
01:30:39.979 --> 01:30:44.489
And that was quote poison someone and request immediate cremation.
1732
01:30:44.550 --> 01:30:46.909
That's how you do it now, which is exactly what
1733
01:30:46.949 --> 01:30:50.729
she did. So they were like, Oh, um, That's not good.
1734
01:30:51.689 --> 01:30:54.310
And also she said that she was a big fan
1735
01:30:54.350 --> 01:30:56.869
of TV crime shows and had claimed she knew how
1736
01:30:56.890 --> 01:31:00.750
to kill someone without getting caught. Wow. Okay. Now other
1737
01:31:00.770 --> 01:31:03.970
witnesses come forward as if that wasn't bad enough. This
1738
01:31:04.050 --> 01:31:07.670
is really bad though. This is where her story gets
1739
01:31:07.729 --> 01:31:11.109
real shitty. Now this is before the 911 call. That
1740
01:31:11.149 --> 01:31:15.020
came in at 8.04 a.m. on the 24th. There's a
1741
01:31:15.069 --> 01:31:18.220
store clerk named Kim Foster who knows Tammy very well.
1742
01:31:19.010 --> 01:31:23.109
spoke to Tammy when she opened her store sometime before
1743
01:31:23.109 --> 01:31:28.680
7 a.m. She left the house, saw him sitting there.
1744
01:31:29.239 --> 01:31:29.979
Went to the store.
1745
01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:32.020
Came back. He's still sitting there.
1746
01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:36.779
Yeah, so maybe he's dead. Yeah. But Tammy appeared distressed.
1747
01:31:38.199 --> 01:31:41.140
She asked what was wrong, and Tammy responded that she
1748
01:31:41.239 --> 01:31:45.479
found Alan dead that morning. This is an hour and
1749
01:31:45.500 --> 01:31:50.069
a half before the call to 911. Oh, my. So
1750
01:31:50.210 --> 01:31:55.010
that's crazy. That one's bad. Then a neighbor, Jennifer Melton,
1751
01:31:55.069 --> 01:31:58.010
gets a knock on her door around 7 a.m. It's
1752
01:31:58.090 --> 01:32:00.590
super fucking loud, super early, so she's got to get
1753
01:32:00.630 --> 01:32:02.189
her shit together. By the time she gets to the
1754
01:32:02.229 --> 01:32:06.060
front door, whoever knocked is gone. So she looks out
1755
01:32:06.100 --> 01:32:09.239
her back window and sees Tammy in her yard tying
1756
01:32:09.279 --> 01:32:13.340
up her dogs. This is a little after 7 a.m.
1757
01:32:14.399 --> 01:32:17.810
Tying up her dogs. Who are now sniffing this poor
1758
01:32:17.829 --> 01:32:18.430
man's corpse.
1759
01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:20.760
Yeah, in an hour from now, there's going to be
1760
01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:21.319
men here.
1761
01:32:22.600 --> 01:32:28.359
This is wild. Then at about 7.30 a.m., Gary Ruttle,
1762
01:32:28.500 --> 01:32:31.789
her boyfriend there, Gary receives a phone call from Tammy.
1763
01:32:32.970 --> 01:32:37.270
And Tammy had told him that Alan was outside and unconscious.
1764
01:32:38.890 --> 01:32:42.449
That's what he said. So this is all these different stories.
1765
01:32:42.689 --> 01:32:47.140
So someone... said that she knew he was dead well
1766
01:32:47.180 --> 01:32:50.680
before 7 a.m. Right. Then she's stopping at neighbors' houses,
1767
01:32:50.720 --> 01:32:54.020
tying up dogs, calling her boyfriend, doing all this different shit,
1768
01:32:56.279 --> 01:33:00.000
which is very odd. So Tammy, by the way, she's
1769
01:33:00.020 --> 01:33:01.659
going to get talked to a whole bunch of times
1770
01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:04.079
by the cops, and she is in a position where
1771
01:33:04.119 --> 01:33:06.020
she can't just say, fuck you, I need a lawyer.
1772
01:33:06.090 --> 01:33:07.810
She has to act super cooperative.
1773
01:33:08.369 --> 01:33:11.090
Yeah, because she didn't do it. She had nothing to
1774
01:33:11.109 --> 01:33:11.329
do with it.
1775
01:33:11.329 --> 01:33:12.750
She didn't do it. It's all an act on. Yeah,
1776
01:33:12.770 --> 01:33:15.199
and she needs the insurance money to be released too.
1777
01:33:15.319 --> 01:33:19.079
So over the course of this, she has slightly different
1778
01:33:19.100 --> 01:33:22.689
versions every time too, which that happens. There's minor inconsistencies
1779
01:33:22.739 --> 01:33:26.270
if people fuck up a detail or something. So they
1780
01:33:26.350 --> 01:33:29.090
said to her, it's also the fact that you did
1781
01:33:29.149 --> 01:33:30.949
not walk in the door at 8.04 and call 9-1-1.
1782
01:33:32.859 --> 01:33:35.479
You were doing something in that house for 14 minutes
1783
01:33:35.539 --> 01:33:38.399
before you called 911. That's when she came home. And
1784
01:33:38.859 --> 01:33:41.279
we have an eyewitness that puts you there an hour
1785
01:33:41.340 --> 01:33:44.279
before you called 911, tying up the dogs in the backyard.
1786
01:33:44.310 --> 01:33:46.989
So they're like, what up with that? Yeah.
1787
01:33:47.510 --> 01:33:48.470
What the hell, lady?
1788
01:33:49.170 --> 01:33:53.529
Now, her excuse for this is, well, yeah, I might
1789
01:33:53.569 --> 01:33:57.569
have made a few other calls before I called 911.
1790
01:33:57.779 --> 01:34:00.829
And they go, why? And she goes, well, you know,
1791
01:34:00.869 --> 01:34:03.489
my memory's not so good, so I don't really remember
1792
01:34:03.529 --> 01:34:07.050
that morning so well. But she said, it's got to
1793
01:34:07.069 --> 01:34:09.289
be shock. It's got to be the shock of finding
1794
01:34:09.329 --> 01:34:12.130
my husband's body. I went into such shock from it,
1795
01:34:12.229 --> 01:34:14.579
I couldn't call 911 for an hour. But I could
1796
01:34:14.619 --> 01:34:16.859
go to the store and call my boyfriend. That I
1797
01:34:16.880 --> 01:34:20.020
could figure out. Easy. You know, the shock makes you
1798
01:34:20.039 --> 01:34:21.960
do weird things. You don't want to call a number.
1799
01:34:21.979 --> 01:34:24.960
Yeah, when you're in shock, I'll just sit there on
1800
01:34:24.979 --> 01:34:26.220
the phone going, yes, 911? Yes, 911.
1801
01:34:26.199 --> 01:34:26.460
Yes, 911?
1802
01:34:26.439 --> 01:34:28.430
Yes, 911?
1803
01:34:28.430 --> 01:34:30.130
911?
1804
01:34:30.130 --> 01:34:31.109
Just back and forth.
1805
01:34:31.109 --> 01:34:32.710
911, is it you?
1806
01:34:32.729 --> 01:34:33.970
I had to wait for an hour.
1807
01:34:35.569 --> 01:34:38.010
So, yeah, you know, I didn't want to be frustrated.
1808
01:34:38.029 --> 01:34:38.949
Gotta let that wear off.
1809
01:34:39.489 --> 01:34:43.149
She also tells this cop that she one time found
1810
01:34:43.210 --> 01:34:47.569
a bottle of 90 pills hidden with her husband's belongings
1811
01:34:47.649 --> 01:34:50.380
and confronted him about it. And she said her husband
1812
01:34:50.420 --> 01:34:54.520
told him that his cousin gave him the pills. So
1813
01:34:54.979 --> 01:34:59.380
that is, I assume, to say that it's The Flexeril, probably,
1814
01:34:59.399 --> 01:35:03.840
because that's what they're saying, gave him the pills. Also,
1815
01:35:03.880 --> 01:35:07.630
during the same interview, she said she called 911 immediately
1816
01:35:07.750 --> 01:35:09.649
after arriving home in the morning. And that's where they
1817
01:35:09.670 --> 01:35:13.449
were like, well, not really. You didn't, though. Yeah. And
1818
01:35:13.470 --> 01:35:16.909
she said, well, it was shortly after that. And then
1819
01:35:17.310 --> 01:35:20.010
they challenged her story and show phone records that she
1820
01:35:20.069 --> 01:35:23.619
called a friend at 750 from her home phone and
1821
01:35:23.659 --> 01:35:26.970
didn't call 911 until 14 minutes later. And said, what
1822
01:35:27.010 --> 01:35:29.289
were you doing during that 14 minutes? And said, look
1823
01:35:29.310 --> 01:35:31.729
at all these other phone calls you made. You were
1824
01:35:31.789 --> 01:35:34.409
home for 14 minutes from the first time you called
1825
01:35:34.510 --> 01:35:37.770
Rhonda to when you called 911. And you also called
1826
01:35:37.810 --> 01:35:41.510
your boyfriend Gary in that 14 minutes. And she just said,
1827
01:35:42.050 --> 01:35:44.649
I don't know. I just don't know.
1828
01:35:44.670 --> 01:35:46.689
What about an hour and a half ago? You already
1829
01:35:46.770 --> 01:35:48.470
knew that he was dead.
1830
01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:54.300
Yeah. Nope. Nope. And then she said, well, I probably panicked.
1831
01:35:54.800 --> 01:35:56.920
And just tried to calm myself down. And that's I
1832
01:35:56.939 --> 01:36:00.479
called people that would help calm me down. Call them
1833
01:36:00.840 --> 01:36:03.239
as 911 is there. You can call them all you want.
1834
01:36:03.619 --> 01:36:08.119
As the medics work on him, that's fine. So they
1835
01:36:08.159 --> 01:36:10.600
push her a little more. And she said, well, okay.
1836
01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:13.720
And she started crying. And she said, you're going to
1837
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:16.039
think I'm a horrible person. You're going to think I'm
1838
01:36:16.060 --> 01:36:20.579
a horrible person. And they go, try us. Give us
1839
01:36:20.619 --> 01:36:22.899
a run. See if you can make it so we
1840
01:36:22.939 --> 01:36:24.899
think you're worse than we think you are now. Yeah.
1841
01:36:25.560 --> 01:36:27.760
Let's see if we can get there. And she said, okay,
1842
01:36:27.800 --> 01:36:32.699
he showed up intoxicated. He was shit-faced, man. Just showed
1843
01:36:32.760 --> 01:36:37.579
up wrecked. He said that he just wasn't willing to
1844
01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:40.829
live if he couldn't move back home and have free
1845
01:36:40.930 --> 01:36:44.810
reign and do the things he wanted to do. I
1846
01:36:44.850 --> 01:36:48.390
need free reign. He said that Alan then went to
1847
01:36:48.430 --> 01:36:51.729
his truck and brought in a container of liquid with
1848
01:36:51.770 --> 01:36:56.880
an eyedropper and and was drinking whiskey. So he's got
1849
01:36:56.939 --> 01:36:59.699
liquid with an eyedropper. Now, she's a nurse. She would
1850
01:36:59.739 --> 01:37:05.380
know what it was. And said that he put, quote,
1851
01:37:05.500 --> 01:37:08.279
a couple droppers full of the liquid in his mouth.
1852
01:37:09.270 --> 01:37:11.979
Oh, he's just dropping droppers like a bird feeder.
1853
01:37:12.090 --> 01:37:16.050
Boop, boop, boop. Yeah. While he's hammering whiskey. Yeah, like
1854
01:37:16.090 --> 01:37:20.069
it's some sort of vitamin C supplement or something he's taking.
1855
01:37:20.090 --> 01:37:21.789
It's a wild syrup that he's making.
1856
01:37:22.930 --> 01:37:26.930
So she suggested that– they said, well, how would he
1857
01:37:26.970 --> 01:37:29.909
get some weird liquid– I don't understand how he would
1858
01:37:29.949 --> 01:37:33.329
do this. And they said, well, a guy I used
1859
01:37:33.350 --> 01:37:37.130
to work with named Jamie at a nursing home, he
1860
01:37:37.189 --> 01:37:39.810
might have been the source of these drugs. That's the guy.
1861
01:37:40.350 --> 01:37:44.250
She said after she found Alan dead– She said she
1862
01:37:44.329 --> 01:37:46.600
threw everything away. This is what I didn't want to
1863
01:37:46.640 --> 01:37:48.859
tell you, but I didn't want to make him look bad,
1864
01:37:48.899 --> 01:37:50.140
so I just threw everything away.
1865
01:37:50.439 --> 01:37:51.939
Oh, she threw away the eyedropper.
1866
01:37:52.300 --> 01:37:54.119
Got rid of all of his drugs and got rid
1867
01:37:54.159 --> 01:37:57.180
of everything. And she said the pill bottle and bottle
1868
01:37:57.199 --> 01:38:00.399
of liquid were both empty, by the way. So she
1869
01:38:00.420 --> 01:38:02.359
was just getting rid of the bottles. She told the
1870
01:38:02.399 --> 01:38:05.939
cop that she just felt awful about it and, you know,
1871
01:38:06.140 --> 01:38:09.010
she couldn't help it. She also said she cleaned up
1872
01:38:09.060 --> 01:38:11.500
the foam that had come out of his mouth, too. Oh,
1873
01:38:11.510 --> 01:38:14.560
my God. Just gave him a little deal, cleaned him up,
1874
01:38:14.619 --> 01:38:16.520
washed down the scene, you know, just didn't want to
1875
01:38:16.539 --> 01:38:21.460
make him look bad. Wow. That's not a good story. No.
1876
01:38:21.979 --> 01:38:23.020
It's a terrible story.
1877
01:38:23.350 --> 01:38:24.890
I cleaned up the body.
1878
01:38:25.369 --> 01:38:29.449
It's not good. Yeah, well, it's especially bad because during
1879
01:38:29.510 --> 01:38:34.119
a conversation. with Alan's ex-wife, Tammy initially said Alan hadn't
1880
01:38:34.140 --> 01:38:36.699
been drinking at all, but later mentioned during the course
1881
01:38:36.739 --> 01:38:39.210
of the evening that he consumed a beer and a shot.
1882
01:38:39.670 --> 01:38:42.750
And then when she spoke to one of the children,
1883
01:38:43.930 --> 01:38:46.909
Tammy said Alan had been pounding tequila the entire night.
1884
01:38:47.770 --> 01:38:50.210
So went from not drinking at all, had one shot
1885
01:38:50.250 --> 01:38:53.899
and one beer, a shitload of tequila, a bunch of
1886
01:38:53.989 --> 01:38:57.420
whiskey is another story, or two Long Island iced teas
1887
01:38:57.479 --> 01:39:02.439
is another story. It's one of those. What did he drink? Yeah. 0.436,
1888
01:39:02.439 --> 01:39:07.100
all of that. It has to be. So that's when,
1889
01:39:07.140 --> 01:39:10.180
during this investigation, shit takes a bit of a different turn.
1890
01:39:11.789 --> 01:39:13.649
Because they're like, okay, we have a lot of kind
1891
01:39:13.689 --> 01:39:16.699
of circumstantial shit and she looks bad and all this.
1892
01:39:16.739 --> 01:39:20.199
And her story is fucking terrible. But we don't really have,
1893
01:39:20.220 --> 01:39:25.399
you know, anything to really go on. Then an old
1894
01:39:25.460 --> 01:39:29.470
boyfriend comes back to haunt her. Nice. Yes. This is
1895
01:39:29.569 --> 01:39:35.149
Stephen Brown, Tammy's former boyfriend. And a statement from him.
1896
01:39:35.630 --> 01:39:39.189
They discover a statement that he gave to a Farm
1897
01:39:39.270 --> 01:39:44.039
Bureau insurance investigator. in connection with a completely separate matter
1898
01:39:44.079 --> 01:39:45.140
that had nothing to do with Alan.
1899
01:39:45.460 --> 01:39:47.399
The FBI? The Farm Bureau Insurance?
1900
01:39:47.579 --> 01:39:51.909
Yes, Farm Bureau Insurance. I'm with the FBI, ma'am. I'm
1901
01:39:51.930 --> 01:39:57.949
investigating something. No, the Farm Bureau Insurance. FBI. So, Tammy
1902
01:39:58.229 --> 01:40:01.760
had accused this Stephen Brown of stealing her property, which
1903
01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:03.779
he denied, and I think they found later that he
1904
01:40:03.819 --> 01:40:08.060
didn't at all. But over the course of this interview...
1905
01:40:08.789 --> 01:40:12.670
Stephen Brown dropped a detail on them saying, which didn't
1906
01:40:12.710 --> 01:40:15.470
matter at the time because it wasn't germane to the
1907
01:40:15.529 --> 01:40:17.640
stealing at the time, so no one ever followed up
1908
01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:19.779
on it. It just sat there in a report for
1909
01:40:19.819 --> 01:40:24.659
a later homicide investigator to find. He said that Thanksgiving 2004,
1910
01:40:24.659 --> 01:40:30.289
this is right before she met and married Alan. Yeah,
1911
01:40:30.470 --> 01:40:34.550
three years ago. Yeah, Tammy arrived at his house with food.
1912
01:40:35.189 --> 01:40:38.979
She had a pudding that she insisted he eat. Yeah.
1913
01:40:39.060 --> 01:40:40.659
It's my famous dirt pudding.
1914
01:40:40.680 --> 01:40:41.819
Famous.
1915
01:40:41.880 --> 01:40:45.579
She said, my daughter made it especially for you. Don't
1916
01:40:45.619 --> 01:40:47.859
be disrespectful of my daughter who went out of her
1917
01:40:47.899 --> 01:40:50.779
way to make you a nice pudding. He said he
1918
01:40:50.859 --> 01:40:53.819
took a few bites, but he said it tasted, quote,
1919
01:40:54.220 --> 01:41:00.930
like aspirin dissolving. And then he felt, quote, very out
1920
01:41:00.970 --> 01:41:03.229
of it for several hours. This is after just a
1921
01:41:03.270 --> 01:41:10.279
couple of bites. Then Tammy, after... She had given him
1922
01:41:10.300 --> 01:41:15.779
the pudding, pulled out a life insurance policy application. Yeah.
1923
01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:19.420
She said she needed his information, his Social Security, his
1924
01:41:19.500 --> 01:41:23.520
signature with her as his beneficiary. Sign it now. You know,
1925
01:41:23.560 --> 01:41:25.680
before you die from what I gave you. Yeah.
1926
01:41:25.779 --> 01:41:29.100
Before my dump pipe kills you.
1927
01:41:29.670 --> 01:41:33.649
He said no, refused, wouldn't sign it. So she got
1928
01:41:33.710 --> 01:41:36.720
mad and left. And he said that she left, when
1929
01:41:36.770 --> 01:41:39.279
she left, she took the bowl and plate with her
1930
01:41:39.340 --> 01:41:42.279
that he used. She took the whole thing. She took
1931
01:41:42.319 --> 01:41:44.239
his bowl and plate with her. Wow. So it can
1932
01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:51.609
be found. Wow. That's wild. Okay. So both of these
1933
01:41:51.710 --> 01:41:56.170
meals included the same one thing. Yeah. That dirt pudding,
1934
01:41:56.229 --> 01:41:56.710
her specialty.
1935
01:41:56.729 --> 01:41:57.930
That shit-ass pie, yeah.
1936
01:41:58.449 --> 01:42:02.800
That pudding is her specialty. Then they find out about
1937
01:42:03.550 --> 01:42:07.829
missing drugs from her job. Oh, morphine missing from her job.
1938
01:42:07.909 --> 01:42:10.439
What did he die of? Morphine overdose. No, they're just
1939
01:42:10.489 --> 01:42:11.699
finding out about that now.
1940
01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:12.720
Oh, shit.
1941
01:42:12.880 --> 01:42:14.779
They didn't press charges or anything because they had no
1942
01:42:14.840 --> 01:42:17.039
proof that Tammy stole it. So they just, she just
1943
01:42:17.119 --> 01:42:18.520
left there and they just all called it.
1944
01:42:18.520 --> 01:42:20.359
And they looked like assholes for leaving it out.
1945
01:42:20.420 --> 01:42:23.380
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So they just said, we'll let that go.
1946
01:42:24.500 --> 01:42:27.350
And now it comes back. And they said, as a
1947
01:42:27.390 --> 01:42:31.050
certified nurse's aide, Tammy was not permitted authorized access to
1948
01:42:31.090 --> 01:42:34.550
patient drugs. So, It had to have been a theft.
1949
01:42:35.050 --> 01:42:38.770
They said that Rose will testify later in a hearing
1950
01:42:39.090 --> 01:42:44.029
that Tammy was working with him, Charlie Rose, on March 2nd, 2007,
1951
01:42:44.029 --> 01:42:47.720
in a particular ward that housed a hospice patient who
1952
01:42:47.739 --> 01:42:53.039
had been prescribed Roxanol. Help this person die, basically. Another
1953
01:42:53.119 --> 01:42:55.930
nurse's aide, Rita Bell, had been on duty with Charles
1954
01:42:55.989 --> 01:42:59.409
and Tammy. Charles went for lunch with Rita. and left
1955
01:42:59.489 --> 01:43:01.770
Tammy alone on the floor to serve lunches to the
1956
01:43:01.810 --> 01:43:03.510
bedridden patients. Gee, thanks, guys.
1957
01:43:03.729 --> 01:43:04.729
Yeah, good looking out.
1958
01:43:05.170 --> 01:43:07.890
Gee, maybe bring me back something at least. You guys
1959
01:43:07.930 --> 01:43:12.760
are having a— wow, that sucks. Now, Bell had seen a
1960
01:43:12.800 --> 01:43:15.779
bottle of rinoxanol on the patient's table but did not
1961
01:43:15.819 --> 01:43:17.659
pick it up because she wasn't in charge of the
1962
01:43:17.699 --> 01:43:20.939
medicine cart that day. That would have been— she' s not supposed
1963
01:43:20.960 --> 01:43:24.439
to touch that. So when Charles asked Tammy if she
1964
01:43:24.479 --> 01:43:27.430
knew what happened to it, Tammy flatly denied taking it
1965
01:43:27.489 --> 01:43:29.550
and blamed the missing drugs on the relative that we
1966
01:43:29.569 --> 01:43:33.489
talked about. According to Charlie Rose, he, quote, kind of
1967
01:43:33.590 --> 01:43:36.529
knew better because the daughter was a teacher that never
1968
01:43:36.590 --> 01:43:38.850
visited during the daytime but had no proof, so he
1969
01:43:38.890 --> 01:43:42.899
had to let it drop. Then they find out about
1970
01:43:44.380 --> 01:43:49.760
all of the things about the financial strains, all the
1971
01:43:49.800 --> 01:43:53.090
relatives are coming in talking about. You know, he'd recently
1972
01:43:53.149 --> 01:43:57.090
signed a mortgage insurance on the property and all that
1973
01:43:57.130 --> 01:43:59.729
kind of thing. Now we find out then the cops
1974
01:43:59.770 --> 01:44:03.649
are like, so he signed mortgage insurance. Let's find that policy.
1975
01:44:04.260 --> 01:44:09.619
Then they find out what he really signed, which is $ 100, 000
1976
01:44:07.460 --> 01:44:12.520
life insurance policy, naming Tammy as the sole beneficiary as well.
1977
01:44:13.260 --> 01:44:20.199
And obviously Gary Ruttle was writing the policy. Yeah. And
1978
01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:24.210
she told her friend, Rhonda Brown, that if Alan talks
1979
01:44:24.270 --> 01:44:27.270
to you, make sure that he doesn't find out he
1980
01:44:27.310 --> 01:44:31.079
signed a life insurance policy. Make sure he thinks it's
1981
01:44:31.140 --> 01:44:31.979
mortgage insurance.
1982
01:44:32.979 --> 01:44:33.699
Make sure of that.
1983
01:44:34.220 --> 01:44:38.029
Yep. Um, she showed Rhonda after that, she had said,
1984
01:44:38.109 --> 01:44:40.310
make sure he thinks it's life insurance or make sure
1985
01:44:40.329 --> 01:44:43.600
he thinks it's mortgage insurance. Then she whipped out some
1986
01:44:43.729 --> 01:44:46.779
small round yellow pills, which by the way, that's how
1987
01:44:46.819 --> 01:44:51.420
Flexer will come small yellow pills. Um, and asked her quote,
1988
01:44:51.819 --> 01:45:00.390
if he took the whole bottle, uh, would, would he die? Okay. Um, Now,
1989
01:45:00.510 --> 01:45:02.770
Rhonda said she didn't believe anyone was actually going to
1990
01:45:02.810 --> 01:45:06.210
do that. She thought Tammy was just being funny. You
1991
01:45:06.250 --> 01:45:08.680
know what I mean? Tammy's being Tammy. She has a personality.
1992
01:45:08.689 --> 01:45:09.409
Legitimate question.
1993
01:45:09.659 --> 01:45:11.100
Better asking you than Google.
1994
01:45:11.659 --> 01:45:14.260
Exactly. What do you think here? She said she should
1995
01:45:14.300 --> 01:45:16.760
have called someone right then, Rhonda said, but she didn't
1996
01:45:16.800 --> 01:45:19.279
because she didn't think anything of it. Okay. Then they
1997
01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:24.840
talked to Dennis Thomas, a motorist's life insurance investigator, and-
1998
01:45:25.529 --> 01:45:30.210
He received Tammy's claim on the $ 100, 000 policy and signed
1999
01:45:30.250 --> 01:45:33.369
investigator Dennis Thomas to look into the circumstances of the death.
2000
01:45:34.109 --> 01:45:37.470
He interviewed Tammy multiple times as well. So she's being
2001
01:45:37.510 --> 01:45:41.270
interviewed by two sets of investigators here. All over the place, yeah.
2002
01:45:42.109 --> 01:45:44.510
But he just takes his findings and shares them with
2003
01:45:44.550 --> 01:45:49.779
the police. So everything he gets, they get too. Yeah. Yeah.
2004
01:45:50.159 --> 01:45:52.359
So she is under a lot of pressure. Every time
2005
01:45:52.420 --> 01:45:55.060
she was interviewed, she had to try to maintain a story.
2006
01:45:55.479 --> 01:45:57.399
And to keep your story straight, what did I tell
2007
01:45:57.439 --> 01:45:59.239
this one as opposed to that one and all that,
2008
01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:01.920
it doesn't work very well. Tammy starts to kind of
2009
01:46:01.939 --> 01:46:04.420
break down a little bit. Well, they tend to ask
2010
01:46:04.460 --> 01:46:05.939
you specifics. Very specific.
2011
01:46:05.979 --> 01:46:10.560
And if that specific changes because you forgot, that's on you.
2012
01:46:11.479 --> 01:46:13.859
Yeah. They tend to ask you specifics. And if you
2013
01:46:13.899 --> 01:46:16.460
don't answer, they tend to go back to that one question.
2014
01:46:16.600 --> 01:46:20.300
What did you say? Yeah. Can't bullshit your way out
2015
01:46:20.340 --> 01:46:24.430
of it. So then Tammy said, Or they talked to
2016
01:46:24.470 --> 01:46:27.750
Gary Ruttle, and he said, I only sold her the
2017
01:46:27.810 --> 01:46:31.739
insurance policy. I had no idea beyond, you know, that
2018
01:46:31.760 --> 01:46:34.460
she had any intentions to do anything with it like that.
2019
01:46:35.180 --> 01:46:37.420
He said, also, I haven't been in contact with her
2020
01:46:37.479 --> 01:46:42.739
since that time period. He said, oh, never mind. She
2021
01:46:42.760 --> 01:46:47.449
started being investigated. Yeah. And I'm sure the investigators probably
2022
01:46:47.470 --> 01:46:50.649
told him, dude, stay away from this lady. She's dangerous.
2023
01:46:51.750 --> 01:46:57.409
Then Tammy's dad... Lowell Smith said he recalled Tammy telling
2024
01:46:57.479 --> 01:47:00.159
him Alan had foam coming from his mouth when she
2025
01:47:00.220 --> 01:47:04.939
found him dead and that she had wiped it away. OK,
2026
01:47:05.760 --> 01:47:10.060
so here is their theory. Sometime between 1 a.m. and
2027
01:47:10.060 --> 01:47:14.850
6 a.m. while he was sleeping, he's asleep in his chair, unconscious,
2028
01:47:15.060 --> 01:47:18.760
having too much morphine, flexerol and alcohol. They said his
2029
01:47:18.819 --> 01:47:23.359
breathing slows. And according to the theory, while he was incapacitated,
2030
01:47:23.399 --> 01:47:29.300
they believe Tammy may have administered additional morphine directly. Oh,
2031
01:47:29.399 --> 01:47:32.500
she might have dropped more in. That would explain why
2032
01:47:32.560 --> 01:47:35.819
his blood concentration was so insanely high. They don't think
2033
01:47:35.859 --> 01:47:37.000
he would have been able to get all that in
2034
01:47:37.020 --> 01:47:41.770
him basically before being out. So they said it has
2035
01:47:41.810 --> 01:47:44.149
to be. They think that Tammy must have given him
2036
01:47:44.229 --> 01:47:47.289
more later. Like she probably came outside, looked at him,
2037
01:47:47.329 --> 01:47:48.720
and said, fuck, he's still breathing.
2038
01:47:49.149 --> 01:47:50.079
The chest is moving.
2039
01:47:50.560 --> 01:47:52.500
Drop, drop, drop, drop, drop, drop. Okay, see how that
2040
01:47:52.539 --> 01:47:57.000
does type of thing. So the insurance situation had really
2041
01:47:57.739 --> 01:48:01.340
been the initial red flags here. Alan's family suspicions, even
2042
01:48:01.420 --> 01:48:06.630
Tammy's family suspicions. Her rushing to get cremated, wanting to
2043
01:48:06.670 --> 01:48:10.689
skip the autopsy, everything. One of the cops said, I
2044
01:48:10.729 --> 01:48:13.729
was suspicious of it at the start. He was in
2045
01:48:13.789 --> 01:48:16.949
too good of health. And all of that shit. And
2046
01:48:16.989 --> 01:48:19.659
in her own story, it kept shifting um just to
2047
01:48:19.699 --> 01:48:23.079
go over her lies when she called 911 she said
2048
01:48:23.100 --> 01:48:27.180
i found him and i immediately called we find out
2049
01:48:27.220 --> 01:48:30.100
she called several other people first uh first not only
2050
01:48:30.140 --> 01:48:32.859
that she was in a store in town before 7 a.m
2051
01:48:32.920 --> 01:48:37.850
already telling people alan was dead Boyfriend Gary gets a
2052
01:48:37.869 --> 01:48:41.569
call at 7.30 a.m. saying Alan was unconscious. The 911
2053
01:48:41.569 --> 01:48:44.449
call came in at 8.04, and when confronted with this,
2054
01:48:44.810 --> 01:48:48.899
she said she was in shock. To the 911 operator,
2055
01:48:48.960 --> 01:48:51.939
Tammy said that he's a heavy drinker, implying alcohol was
2056
01:48:51.979 --> 01:48:56.439
to blame. To Alan's former girlfriend, he said he hadn't
2057
01:48:56.460 --> 01:48:59.590
been drinking at all. Then he said he had one
2058
01:48:59.630 --> 01:49:02.170
beer and one shot. Then to her son, saying he'd
2059
01:49:02.189 --> 01:49:05.710
been drinking tequila all night. They'd been drinking tequila together
2060
01:49:05.770 --> 01:49:10.119
all night. then later on, at least two Long Island
2061
01:49:10.180 --> 01:49:13.800
iced teas, and then at one point, whiskey and morphine. Right.
2062
01:49:14.479 --> 01:49:17.289
All of those. Initially, she had no idea where the
2063
01:49:17.310 --> 01:49:20.010
drugs came from. Then she said Alan must have had
2064
01:49:20.050 --> 01:49:23.510
a secret drug life she didn't know about. Had to. Then,
2065
01:49:23.529 --> 01:49:27.810
at another time, she described seeing Alan produce an eyedropper
2066
01:49:27.869 --> 01:49:33.380
bottle with a lavender liquid, consistent with Roxanol. Then, Alan
2067
01:49:33.420 --> 01:49:37.430
had gotten Flexeril from his cousin Zyla. Then... She said
2068
01:49:37.489 --> 01:49:40.409
she cleaned up the pill bottles to protect his reputation.
2069
01:49:41.989 --> 01:49:45.880
And then she comes up with an even crazier one.
2070
01:49:45.899 --> 01:49:50.760
Here we go. He committed suicide. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah,
2071
01:49:50.779 --> 01:49:55.180
I could see it. It's suicide. It's suicide. I don't know.
2072
01:49:55.300 --> 01:49:58.930
It's not her job to come up with the reason
2073
01:49:59.010 --> 01:50:01.270
or how he died.
2074
01:50:01.329 --> 01:50:01.890
It's just....
2075
01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:04.800
That's their job. Let them do it.
2076
01:50:05.859 --> 01:50:06.420
Exactly.
2077
01:50:06.640 --> 01:50:10.699
But it's clearly either murder or suicide.
2078
01:50:10.180 --> 01:50:14.130
Because there's no other answer. Yeah. He had to have
2079
01:50:14.149 --> 01:50:15.250
done it. The dogs didn't do it.
2080
01:50:15.470 --> 01:50:15.729
Right.
2081
01:50:16.130 --> 01:50:19.149
So her thing is he must have committed suicide. Then
2082
01:50:19.210 --> 01:50:23.229
on the insurance policy, to the investigators, Alan had initiated
2083
01:50:23.270 --> 01:50:27.600
the policy himself. To her friend Rhonda said, don't tell him.
2084
01:50:27.739 --> 01:50:30.560
It's life insurance. And to Alan, she told him it's
2085
01:50:30.600 --> 01:50:34.680
mortgage insurance. So she lied to everybody there. It's a mess.
2086
01:50:36.399 --> 01:50:39.430
She believes, though, her final story, this is my final
2087
01:50:39.520 --> 01:50:42.250
answer and I'm sticking to it, is that he accidentally
2088
01:50:42.289 --> 01:50:44.909
drank himself to death. That's what she said was her
2089
01:50:44.949 --> 01:50:49.210
final story. Then she changed that. And according to her,
2090
01:50:49.510 --> 01:50:52.489
he drank the medication and swallowed the pills because he
2091
01:50:52.550 --> 01:50:54.609
wasn't willing to live if he couldn't move back home
2092
01:50:54.670 --> 01:50:56.729
and have free reign to do the things he wanted
2093
01:50:56.750 --> 01:50:59.520
to do, like we said before. And she said he
2094
01:50:59.560 --> 01:51:04.029
hides stuff and he had to have hidden shit. from
2095
01:51:04.130 --> 01:51:06.210
her and he has a secret double life with all
2096
01:51:06.250 --> 01:51:10.210
sorts of stuff and all sorts of drugs. And they
2097
01:51:10.270 --> 01:51:13.409
said that the cousin admitted that she had left medications,
2098
01:51:13.449 --> 01:51:15.729
including Flexerol, out in plain view at her house and
2099
01:51:15.750 --> 01:51:18.619
that she recently had a block party attended by Alan
2100
01:51:18.640 --> 01:51:22.579
and Tammy. However, those who knew Alan, including Zyla, the cousins,
2101
01:51:22.699 --> 01:51:27.859
insisted Alan was opposed to ingesting drugs. Okay. And additionally,
2102
01:51:27.960 --> 01:51:30.819
Tammy said on the night before Alan's death, she'd seen
2103
01:51:30.859 --> 01:51:33.899
him with an eyedropper filled with the lavender color liquid
2104
01:51:33.920 --> 01:51:38.100
and all that here. The problem is here, they said
2105
01:51:38.159 --> 01:51:42.869
that this Roxanol is a liquid form of morphine prescribed
2106
01:51:42.909 --> 01:51:46.590
to hospice patients. It's not a street drug. This isn't
2107
01:51:46.630 --> 01:51:47.670
something readily available.
2108
01:51:47.689 --> 01:51:50.029
You have to get that and then be addicted to that.
2109
01:51:50.710 --> 01:51:54.390
And police officers later on will testify that neither Roxanol
2110
01:51:54.430 --> 01:51:57.689
nor Flexeril is a drug typically abused and available for
2111
01:51:57.729 --> 01:52:01.569
street purchase in 2007 anyway. They said evidence showed that
2112
01:52:01.630 --> 01:52:04.890
Tammy had been in the proximity of both drugs shortly
2113
01:52:04.949 --> 01:52:08.260
before Alan's death. Now, Flexeril, I've heard people take it.
2114
01:52:08.310 --> 01:52:11.750
That's muscle relaxers. This rocks and all shit. That's crazy.
2115
01:52:12.010 --> 01:52:14.930
I've never heard of it before. I imagine it's amazing
2116
01:52:15.029 --> 01:52:16.670
and right on par with Dilaudid.
2117
01:52:17.489 --> 01:52:21.760
Something like that. Yeah. So she said, I want you
2118
01:52:21.800 --> 01:52:23.939
to know I am not this horrible person. I did
2119
01:52:24.060 --> 01:52:26.979
not murder my husband, she tells the police. Fair enough. But.
2120
01:52:27.569 --> 01:52:31.189
Fair enough, but on August 6th, 2010, she's arrested for
2121
01:52:31.229 --> 01:52:35.029
murdering her husband. Ah, shit. So that's not good. Murder,
2122
01:52:35.670 --> 01:52:40.270
six counts of insurance fraud. Six? And three counts of
2123
01:52:40.770 --> 01:52:44.039
obstruction of justice, and that is for her saying she
2124
01:52:44.100 --> 01:52:47.039
threw out the pills and wiped the foam from his mouth.
2125
01:52:47.199 --> 01:52:50.720
That's obstruction of justice. Oh, shit. Yes, telling her dad
2126
01:52:50.779 --> 01:52:54.779
she wiped the foam from the mouth. So in her
2127
01:52:54.859 --> 01:52:59.289
initial appearance in court, This is the balls this lady has. Okay.
2128
01:52:59.810 --> 01:53:04.869
She asked if she could be released from her jail
2129
01:53:05.689 --> 01:53:08.270
so she could return to the job she loves at
2130
01:53:08.310 --> 01:53:10.039
a Louisville children's hospital.
2131
01:53:10.899 --> 01:53:11.760
Yes, you may.
2132
01:53:11.800 --> 01:53:16.920
Huh? Yes, murder suspect. Let's go hang out around children more.
2133
01:53:17.020 --> 01:53:19.460
That's what we want for our murder suspects. Do you
2134
01:53:19.500 --> 01:53:20.420
want to go volunteer?
2135
01:53:20.479 --> 01:53:20.939
We get it.
2136
01:53:20.939 --> 01:53:23.619
No, no, her job. It's very important. She loves it. Yeah.
2137
01:53:23.939 --> 01:53:24.789
It's very important to her.
2138
01:53:24.800 --> 01:53:26.239
Very important to the community, yeah.
2139
01:53:26.590 --> 01:53:30.909
Yeah, that you go dick around kids. The judge said no,
2140
01:53:32.260 --> 01:53:36.859
first of all, and then said that you're going to
2141
01:53:36.880 --> 01:53:39.239
need an attorney to file a motion for a special
2142
01:53:39.279 --> 01:53:42.899
hearing before I could even consider bond. And she said
2143
01:53:42.939 --> 01:53:44.819
she couldn't afford an attorney and could she have a
2144
01:53:44.840 --> 01:53:48.170
public defender? They said, have you looked for an attorney?
2145
01:53:48.210 --> 01:53:51.090
And she said her boyfriend has made calls on her behalf,
2146
01:53:52.229 --> 01:53:56.149
which Gary said he's hasn't talked to her since the incident.
2147
01:53:56.189 --> 01:54:00.409
So who is this boyfriend that she found now? We
2148
01:54:00.449 --> 01:54:06.810
don't know. She said that they're asking for 30 to 50,000
2149
01:54:06.810 --> 01:54:07.989
to retain their services.
2150
01:54:08.810 --> 01:54:10.550
That's a high powered one.
2151
01:54:10.970 --> 01:54:12.909
That's a decent lawyer. And she said, I don't have
2152
01:54:12.949 --> 01:54:15.850
that kind of money. There was a lawsuit with the
2153
01:54:15.909 --> 01:54:19.909
insurance company that had gone on before this where she
2154
01:54:19.970 --> 01:54:21.989
and the company reached a $ 40, 000 settlement. So they ended
2155
01:54:22.010 --> 01:54:23.050
up giving her $ 40, 000. Instead of the $ 300, 000? $ 100, 000. $ 100, 000. 40%?
2156
01:54:23.050 --> 01:54:24.430
They gave her $ 40, 000, but they said that $ 40, 000 is
2157
01:54:24.449 --> 01:54:25.989
going to go against your lawyer fee.
2158
01:54:26.010 --> 01:54:27.250
So there's a cap on the public defender.
2159
01:54:27.149 --> 01:54:28.050
Of $ 25, 000. So at least $ 25, 000 of that is coming
2160
01:54:28.069 --> 01:54:30.369
to your lawyer, basically, or at most $ 25, 000 of it.
2161
01:54:48.020 --> 01:54:54.640
So April 2011 is the trial. Now, one of the
2162
01:54:54.739 --> 01:54:57.319
main things they're fighting about in pretrial, this is one
2163
01:54:57.340 --> 01:54:59.079
of those cases where there's a lot up in the
2164
01:54:59.159 --> 01:55:01.619
air because they don't have proof she had morphine. So
2165
01:55:02.039 --> 01:55:04.220
this is a lot of circumstantial evidence. And the way
2166
01:55:04.260 --> 01:55:07.939
the trial goes down is everything. If you've seen anything
2167
01:55:08.010 --> 01:55:11.029
on the Corey Richen stuff, that was their whole approach
2168
01:55:11.069 --> 01:55:13.130
is we don't have any proof of this, of her
2169
01:55:13.170 --> 01:55:16.909
doing this. But there was two adults in the house. Right.
2170
01:55:17.050 --> 01:55:19.710
He ended up with too much of this in his system. Yeah.
2171
01:55:20.260 --> 01:55:21.979
And we don't think he did it to himself. So
2172
01:55:22.020 --> 01:55:24.140
by process of elimination had to have been you.
2173
01:55:24.600 --> 01:55:27.500
And we have text messages from one person in the house.
2174
01:55:27.760 --> 01:55:28.039
Yes.
2175
01:55:28.100 --> 01:55:31.479
Trying to procure the shit that he died from. Exactly.
2176
01:55:31.539 --> 01:55:35.619
Asking for the Michael Jackson stuff. Right. So anyway, this shit,
2177
01:55:35.640 --> 01:55:38.369
it's a very similar thing, though. Very circumstantial. And it's
2178
01:55:38.409 --> 01:55:42.930
just based on process of elimination. Yeah. Couldn't have been
2179
01:55:42.970 --> 01:55:46.340
anybody else. Had to have been her. So the main
2180
01:55:46.399 --> 01:55:50.000
thing they're going to fight about is Stephen Brown. Okay, yeah.
2181
01:55:50.060 --> 01:55:52.180
The ex-boyfriend who said she tried to poison him on
2182
01:55:52.220 --> 01:55:56.680
Thanksgiving or near Thanksgiving with the aspirin taste and hours
2183
01:55:56.720 --> 01:55:59.680
of feeling out of it and almost being forced to
2184
01:55:59.720 --> 01:56:02.100
sign insurance papers and how she left with the bowl
2185
01:56:02.159 --> 01:56:02.590
and plate.
2186
01:56:03.739 --> 01:56:06.609
The weakest and worst pie on the planet.
2187
01:56:07.310 --> 01:56:12.630
Yeah, terrible, awful pie. It's not cooking. Stop it. So
2188
01:56:13.989 --> 01:56:16.739
one of the big deals here is whether Stephen's testimony
2189
01:56:16.859 --> 01:56:19.760
about this could be admitted into trial, because this is
2190
01:56:19.819 --> 01:56:23.420
a big, I mean, this is a knockout blow. It
2191
01:56:23.460 --> 01:56:27.479
involved Indiana evidence rule 404B, which you've heard a lot
2192
01:56:27.520 --> 01:56:30.340
of if you ever watch a trial, which generally prohibits
2193
01:56:30.500 --> 01:56:33.479
using evidence of prior bad acts to show a defendant
2194
01:56:33.520 --> 01:56:36.960
has a propensity for crime. Okay. It's the prior bad
2195
01:56:37.039 --> 01:56:41.760
acts thing. Now, Before trial, Tammy's attorneys successfully argue that
2196
01:56:41.840 --> 01:56:46.800
Stephen Brown's testimony should be included unless the defense opens
2197
01:56:46.859 --> 01:56:49.989
the door. And that's always the exception to this. The
2198
01:56:50.029 --> 01:56:52.489
prosecution can't bring shit up. But if you open the
2199
01:56:52.529 --> 01:56:55.569
door on something to try to say she's a good person,
2200
01:56:55.590 --> 01:56:58.689
you try to open some character door, you're getting blasted
2201
01:56:58.710 --> 01:57:00.729
with this. And that's how it works here. And the
2202
01:57:00.770 --> 01:57:03.710
prosecution agreed and that was fine. So he's not allowed
2203
01:57:03.729 --> 01:57:10.479
to testify. All right. Prosecution's opening. They have a timeline,
2204
01:57:10.779 --> 01:57:13.279
and they do it for about an hour, the whole timeline,
2205
01:57:13.340 --> 01:57:17.619
and detail Alan and Tammy's relationship, financial records, employment history.
2206
01:57:18.720 --> 01:57:24.569
He portrayed Tammy as financially irresponsible and dishonest. They alleged
2207
01:57:24.590 --> 01:57:29.170
that Tammy had, quote, hid $ 25, 000 from her creditors in
2208
01:57:29.270 --> 01:57:32.770
Alan Duvall's personal checking account so that she could file
2209
01:57:32.810 --> 01:57:38.029
for bankruptcy and have a $ 55, 000 debt erased. Okay. So
2210
01:57:38.069 --> 01:57:40.609
that's all, you know, shady shit. Um, that's one of
2211
01:57:40.630 --> 01:57:43.729
the counts that she's up for. They also pointed out
2212
01:57:43.770 --> 01:57:47.949
that 17 months after the bankruptcy erased her debt, she
2213
01:57:47.989 --> 01:57:56.130
had accumulated $ 170, 000 in new debt by purchasing houses, vehicles, clothes,
2214
01:57:56.170 --> 01:58:01.210
shit like that. $ 170, 000. Yeah. Uh, the Duvalls are frequently
2215
01:58:01.250 --> 01:58:03.949
late on their loan payments. Uh, their house is being
2216
01:58:04.010 --> 01:58:07.859
foreclosed on. Um, and the house was being foreclosed on
2217
01:58:07.920 --> 01:58:11.840
before Tammy paid up $ 5 of delinquent mortgage payments after
2218
01:58:11.880 --> 01:58:15.039
she got the insurance settlement. They said by the time
2219
01:58:15.100 --> 01:58:18.840
Tammy purchased insurance on Alan DeValls' life, she was facing
2220
01:58:18.880 --> 01:58:22.659
a major financial crisis. And then they played clips of
2221
01:58:22.720 --> 01:58:29.659
interviews of police and insurance investigators conducted with Tammy. And
2222
01:58:29.779 --> 01:58:35.600
showed her in her own glory here. They played audio
2223
01:58:35.640 --> 01:58:39.779
of Clip's interviews by that. They said that he said
2224
01:58:39.840 --> 01:58:43.500
proving the insurance fraud and obstruction of justice charges were
2225
01:58:43.520 --> 01:58:47.050
the easy part because Tammy's caught on tape lying to
2226
01:58:47.090 --> 01:58:51.350
an insurance investigator and confessing to cleaning Alan Duvall's body
2227
01:58:51.409 --> 01:58:53.369
and the area around him when she found him dead.
2228
01:58:54.060 --> 01:58:58.329
They said Tammy concealed and misrepresented her insurance claim history
2229
01:58:58.430 --> 01:59:03.250
and her level of participation in ensuring Allen's life. They said, quote,
2230
01:59:03.649 --> 01:59:08.000
she tangled herself up in her web of deceit. I
2231
01:59:08.039 --> 01:59:10.539
love when prosecutors try to turn phrases and it's just
2232
01:59:10.619 --> 01:59:12.060
kind of false flat like that.
2233
01:59:12.079 --> 01:59:13.600
It's a real black widow.
2234
01:59:13.699 --> 01:59:17.949
She tangled herself up in her web of deceit. Oh boy. Uh,
2235
01:59:17.970 --> 01:59:21.409
you know how that web goes, gets tangled. Um, Telling
2236
01:59:21.710 --> 01:59:25.289
they said telling lies that she ever evolved that evolved
2237
01:59:25.369 --> 01:59:27.770
as the investigators got more evidence, her lies would just
2238
01:59:27.810 --> 01:59:30.380
kind of go around what that evidence was. They said
2239
01:59:30.409 --> 01:59:33.979
Tammy concealed and misrepresented all this shit and tangled herself
2240
01:59:34.039 --> 01:59:40.399
and she's doing everything. They also said that Tammy did
2241
01:59:40.460 --> 01:59:43.199
not show this is in court this day. They show
2242
01:59:43.260 --> 01:59:46.539
a picture of Alan slumped over dead in the chair.
2243
01:59:47.399 --> 01:59:50.300
And his cousin started crying, but Tammy showed no reaction
2244
01:59:50.319 --> 01:59:54.560
in court. Then later in the argument, she began crying
2245
01:59:54.579 --> 01:59:57.579
when the prosecutor played an audio clip of her explaining
2246
01:59:57.899 --> 02:00:00.239
that she saw Alan take the drugs that killed him.
2247
02:00:00.979 --> 02:00:02.819
That's the part I got to cry at. That's my
2248
02:00:02.850 --> 02:00:06.470
emotional part. Her attorney gave her tissues. Oh, you poor thing.
2249
02:00:07.329 --> 02:00:10.689
The defense opening was this. It's a suicide, period.
2250
02:00:11.170 --> 02:00:11.710
It's got to be.
2251
02:00:12.430 --> 02:00:16.350
Suicide, it's a suicide, period. They argued that Alan had
2252
02:00:16.409 --> 02:00:19.880
taken the drugs himself. He was devastated about the state
2253
02:00:19.899 --> 02:00:23.819
of his marriage. And he told Tammy that he just
2254
02:00:24.000 --> 02:00:26.539
couldn't live if he couldn't move back home and that
2255
02:00:26.560 --> 02:00:29.310
the morphine and Flexerol were his and that Tammy was
2256
02:00:29.350 --> 02:00:32.829
an innocent woman, just innocent. And he's going to.
2257
02:00:32.750 --> 02:00:35.989
Feel so bad if his suicide locks her up forever.
2258
02:00:37.170 --> 02:00:39.130
He would feel, do you want to hurt this man
2259
02:00:39.189 --> 02:00:39.649
even more?
2260
02:00:40.520 --> 02:00:41.989
The man's dead, for Christ's sake.
2261
02:00:42.029 --> 02:00:44.920
Let him rest. He's been through enough. The man hasn't
2262
02:00:44.939 --> 02:00:46.960
been able to digest a decent meal in six weeks.
2263
02:00:47.300 --> 02:00:48.119
Six weeks.
2264
02:00:49.340 --> 02:00:54.000
So they said an eyedropper full of morphine is the
2265
02:00:54.020 --> 02:00:58.000
thing he had when he died. And the delay was
2266
02:00:58.100 --> 02:01:00.960
just Tammy finding him dead and, quote, freaking out.
2267
02:01:01.520 --> 02:01:01.779
Right.
2268
02:01:01.819 --> 02:01:04.920
That's all it is. For a long time. Didn't matter.
2269
02:01:05.079 --> 02:01:07.560
They said the state has no proof that Tammy stole
2270
02:01:07.600 --> 02:01:10.880
a bottle of morphine from Miller's Merry Manor, which is
2271
02:01:10.979 --> 02:01:13.500
such a weird place for something that has hospice care,
2272
02:01:13.539 --> 02:01:13.939
by the way.
2273
02:01:14.340 --> 02:01:15.720
A Merry Manor? I know.
2274
02:01:16.340 --> 02:01:19.739
Miller's Merry Manor sounds like something at Six Flags. It
2275
02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:23.140
sounds like the whole ass Six Flags. Yeah, this is
2276
02:01:23.199 --> 02:01:26.479
Miller's Merry Manor. It does not sound like back there
2277
02:01:26.550 --> 02:01:30.359
is the hospice care. Yeah, right past the snack shack
2278
02:01:30.430 --> 02:01:33.390
is the hospice care. Six Flags over Miller's.
2279
02:01:34.039 --> 02:01:34.619
Mary Manor.
2280
02:01:35.479 --> 02:01:40.149
Yeah, it's so weird. Now, her lawyer acknowledged that, yeah,
2281
02:01:40.430 --> 02:01:44.430
Tammy might be financially stupid. Sure. Yeah, she is. That's
2282
02:01:44.510 --> 02:01:49.539
a thing. And yeah, you know, Alan's motives in marrying
2283
02:01:49.600 --> 02:01:54.659
Tammy was also questionable. He said that they then are
2284
02:01:54.880 --> 02:01:58.659
now accusing him of having violent behavior toward her. He
2285
02:01:58.720 --> 02:02:02.380
also questioned police interview techniques in which a detective misled
2286
02:02:02.420 --> 02:02:06.300
and exaggerated the case against Tammy to get favorable testimony
2287
02:02:06.340 --> 02:02:09.770
from other witnesses. That does suck, but it's also legal.
2288
02:02:09.890 --> 02:02:14.430
That's the problem. Um, they said the cases against Tammy
2289
02:02:14.489 --> 02:02:19.390
come down to one word. Sure. That's what the defense
2290
02:02:19.430 --> 02:02:20.409
attorney said. Sure.
2291
02:02:20.970 --> 02:02:22.949
Yeah.
2292
02:02:23.890 --> 02:02:29.130
They, when asked, uh, when asked about, uh, During her interview,
2293
02:02:29.369 --> 02:02:33.840
whether she would take a polygraph, Tammy said, sure, without hesitation.
2294
02:02:34.520 --> 02:02:36.659
They said she had nothing to hide, but the authorities
2295
02:02:36.739 --> 02:02:39.979
never followed through on their offer of the exam. I
2296
02:02:40.000 --> 02:02:43.659
think because it was academic at that point. They had
2297
02:02:43.699 --> 02:02:46.189
her lying six different ways. So what does it matter?
2298
02:02:46.619 --> 02:02:49.930
And maybe they asked and didn't have the machine. It's 50,000
2299
02:02:49.930 --> 02:02:51.680
people here. Maybe they're waiting for it to come up.
2300
02:02:52.310 --> 02:02:54.569
They could have gone to Louisville or Indianapolis or something.
2301
02:02:55.220 --> 02:02:57.520
If you can go to Indianapolis for a drink, you
2302
02:02:57.539 --> 02:03:01.199
can certainly go for a polygraph, I would hope. Her
2303
02:03:01.260 --> 02:03:04.029
lawyer said that Tammy also did not hesitate when asked
2304
02:03:04.090 --> 02:03:10.109
questions he had evidence to prove she was lying. As
2305
02:03:10.149 --> 02:03:13.090
an example, he said, Tammy told a police detective that
2306
02:03:13.130 --> 02:03:15.630
the bank had never foreclosed on her home, but he
2307
02:03:15.670 --> 02:03:19.340
had court documents to show that in his hand. They
2308
02:03:19.420 --> 02:03:22.260
said that Tammy is a good liar until all her
2309
02:03:22.300 --> 02:03:25.340
stories are compared. This is the prosecution in rebuttal here.
2310
02:03:26.079 --> 02:03:31.119
And so that's that. Now, in opening statements still here,
2311
02:03:31.270 --> 02:03:36.810
it's all suicide and, you know, that's it. Now, the
2312
02:03:36.869 --> 02:03:42.890
problem is when they do this, they describe– The defense
2313
02:03:42.930 --> 02:03:47.130
attorney argues that Alan had committed suicide, describing a specific
2314
02:03:47.170 --> 02:03:50.010
scenario in which Alan brought his own drugs to the
2315
02:03:50.050 --> 02:03:52.489
house and told Tammy he didn't want to live and
2316
02:03:52.550 --> 02:03:57.310
self-administered the lethal dose. Now, somehow the prosecution immediately argued
2317
02:03:57.350 --> 02:04:00.880
that this opened the door to the prior poisoning evidence. Oh.
2318
02:04:01.840 --> 02:04:05.119
And to show that Tammy's intent was murderous, not that
2319
02:04:05.260 --> 02:04:08.119
Alan died on his own. So they said, you should
2320
02:04:08.140 --> 02:04:11.390
bring in that other, that Stephen Brown testimony about The
2321
02:04:11.430 --> 02:04:16.489
Thanksgiving shit. And the trial court said, okay, you're right.
2322
02:04:16.909 --> 02:04:19.729
And now this guy's going to testify too. Oh, boy.
2323
02:04:20.069 --> 02:04:23.539
Which is terrible for her. Terrible. To have somebody explain
2324
02:04:23.579 --> 02:04:28.960
the exact scenario again is terrible for her. Not good.
2325
02:04:29.659 --> 02:04:32.979
The only thing their lawyer can say in cross-examination is,
2326
02:04:33.060 --> 02:04:37.470
so you didn't die that night, right? No. That's your witness.
2327
02:04:37.649 --> 02:04:40.010
That's all I had to say. He's alive still, so
2328
02:04:40.069 --> 02:04:40.649
it's not the same.
2329
02:04:41.539 --> 02:04:44.640
There's the old bumper sticker that goes, but did you die?
2330
02:04:44.659 --> 02:04:48.279
Yeah, that's what they need. That's exactly what it is.
2331
02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:52.640
Did you die? Did you die? So the medical examiner,
2332
02:04:53.380 --> 02:04:57.609
they question whether something other than the pudding could have
2333
02:04:57.630 --> 02:04:59.789
killed her, could have killed him. I mean, it would
2334
02:04:59.810 --> 02:05:01.029
have been in anything else.
2335
02:05:01.289 --> 02:05:03.109
Even if it doesn't have drugs in it, it's certainly
2336
02:05:03.130 --> 02:05:04.130
going to make me throw up.
2337
02:05:04.770 --> 02:05:09.819
It certainly sounds gross. Yeah. He told– the medical examiner
2338
02:05:09.859 --> 02:05:13.000
told the attorney that the stomach contents were not tested
2339
02:05:13.060 --> 02:05:16.890
to determine what they were or weren't– or to determine
2340
02:05:16.899 --> 02:05:19.909
what they were or whether they contained any kind of
2341
02:05:19.949 --> 02:05:24.210
illicit drug found in his system. So they– because there
2342
02:05:24.250 --> 02:05:27.130
was no mystery to that. It didn't matter. So they
2343
02:05:27.770 --> 02:05:32.810
also testify that nothing indicated whether the morphine or muscle
2344
02:05:32.850 --> 02:05:36.060
relaxants were in the food or how they were administered
2345
02:05:36.109 --> 02:05:39.489
to Allen. Or whether someone else had administered to them.
2346
02:05:40.050 --> 02:05:44.449
Can you test the stomach contents for the drugs? No. No.
2347
02:05:44.529 --> 02:05:46.689
And this is the same problem. You could test to
2348
02:05:46.750 --> 02:05:49.579
see if there were still drugs in his stomach if
2349
02:05:49.619 --> 02:05:51.960
they take pills or something because that's in the Corey
2350
02:05:52.000 --> 02:05:54.699
Richens case. We're going to find that. And that's what
2351
02:05:54.720 --> 02:05:57.109
we find out kind of from that in that Corey
2352
02:05:57.149 --> 02:06:01.560
Richens case is. That's what the defense keeps bringing up is, well,
2353
02:06:01.569 --> 02:06:04.159
do you have any– do you know how he took
2354
02:06:04.199 --> 02:06:06.300
the drug? And they were like, no, we don't know.
2355
02:06:06.359 --> 02:06:08.000
It just had to have been in something he ate
2356
02:06:08.060 --> 02:06:11.800
if he didn't take it voluntarily. And then they put
2357
02:06:11.840 --> 02:06:14.399
the circumstantial stuff together and they end up with that.
2358
02:06:14.579 --> 02:06:16.619
It would be nice to find out if he took
2359
02:06:16.659 --> 02:06:20.170
it on purpose, but– No way to know. Doesn't seem
2360
02:06:20.210 --> 02:06:20.890
like he did.
2361
02:06:20.909 --> 02:06:25.390
No. So the tests on Alan's blood and urine samples–
2362
02:06:25.859 --> 02:06:30.800
Also don't indicate whether the morphine was Roxanol, which is
2363
02:06:30.840 --> 02:06:33.520
the brand that disappeared from the nursing home. So they
2364
02:06:33.560 --> 02:06:36.130
don't know that. Or if it was just morphine, any
2365
02:06:36.170 --> 02:06:40.270
kind of whatever, generic, whatever. Even though it was five
2366
02:06:40.289 --> 02:06:45.569
months before he died. So Tammy, remember Tammy suggesting that
2367
02:06:45.770 --> 02:06:48.909
Alan took the morphine that killed him and that possibly
2368
02:06:48.989 --> 02:06:51.989
Jamie Payne, a nurse they knew, gave it to him.
2369
02:06:53.000 --> 02:06:55.520
So she had a source. Well, they definitely bring in
2370
02:06:55.560 --> 02:06:59.039
Jamie Payne to testify. Oh, yeah. And he said, well,
2371
02:06:59.060 --> 02:07:02.020
I've only met Alan once for a brief moment when
2372
02:07:02.039 --> 02:07:04.430
he was with Tammy at the nursing home where I
2373
02:07:04.470 --> 02:07:08.729
worked with Tammy. So he definitely wasn't his drug connect.
2374
02:07:09.869 --> 02:07:15.310
And he said that also, I'm a drug addict personally,
2375
02:07:15.350 --> 02:07:19.029
he said, but I never gave Tammy any other drugs
2376
02:07:19.239 --> 02:07:22.800
other than a couple of diet pills one time. So
2377
02:07:22.880 --> 02:07:24.859
that's it. I didn't give her any morphine. I don't
2378
02:07:24.880 --> 02:07:30.000
know shit about shit. Then Tammy's son testifies. Uh-oh. This
2379
02:07:30.100 --> 02:07:34.680
is Jansen Engelman. He testifies that his mother seemed calm
2380
02:07:34.739 --> 02:07:37.659
when she called to tell him about Alan's death, but
2381
02:07:37.699 --> 02:07:40.489
that he could tell from her voice that she was upset.
2382
02:07:42.130 --> 02:07:44.069
He said she said she thought he died of a
2383
02:07:44.109 --> 02:07:47.710
heart attack. He said his mother never told him about
2384
02:07:47.770 --> 02:07:50.920
buying a life insurance policy for Alan. but he'd heard
2385
02:07:50.979 --> 02:07:53.449
from his younger sister that she had talked about it
2386
02:07:53.489 --> 02:07:56.829
with her. He said, it seemed odd. I knew they
2387
02:07:56.869 --> 02:08:00.020
were separated at the time, so it seemed odd. that
2388
02:08:00.060 --> 02:08:04.720
that would happen. Then they bring in Rhonda Brown. Rhonda
2389
02:08:04.760 --> 02:08:08.270
said she had brought over some pills in an unmarked bottle,
2390
02:08:08.310 --> 02:08:09.909
and she said, do you think if a person took
2391
02:08:09.949 --> 02:08:13.390
enough of these pills it would kill them? And I'm like, why?
2392
02:08:13.409 --> 02:08:17.050
Are you planning on killing somebody? Um, and she said,
2393
02:08:17.090 --> 02:08:19.130
you know, you just don't believe anybody's going to actually
2394
02:08:19.250 --> 02:08:23.850
do that. You know? Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh, they bring
2395
02:08:23.909 --> 02:08:27.119
in Charles Rose here. He's the nurse who left the
2396
02:08:27.159 --> 02:08:31.539
bottle out. And he said that, um, you know, he
2397
02:08:31.579 --> 02:08:34.420
knew that her explanation was false, but he had no
2398
02:08:34.479 --> 02:08:37.100
evidence to try to bust her on it basically. And
2399
02:08:37.140 --> 02:08:40.220
like you said, probably was embarrassed about it to begin with.
2400
02:08:40.279 --> 02:08:42.199
I don't know if he's testified to that, but that's
2401
02:08:42.239 --> 02:08:47.100
gotta be a fact. Um, Zyla Thompson saying that Alan
2402
02:08:47.159 --> 02:08:50.140
never to her knowledge had taken any prescription drugs and
2403
02:08:50.199 --> 02:08:53.520
that the bottle was basically, you know, half empty of
2404
02:08:53.560 --> 02:08:57.819
this giant Flexerol bottle after Tammy was there. Um, then
2405
02:08:57.850 --> 02:09:00.310
there's Jennifer Melton, the neighbor who said she saw Tammy
2406
02:09:00.329 --> 02:09:04.130
in the backyard at 7am tying up her dogs. It's
2407
02:09:04.170 --> 02:09:08.689
not good at all. Um, they said Tammy sat quietly
2408
02:09:08.750 --> 02:09:12.779
writing on a notepad. Um, They said Jennifer Melton, who
2409
02:09:12.819 --> 02:09:15.810
works with Tammy at a nursing home and was her friend,
2410
02:09:15.890 --> 02:09:19.770
testified that Tammy was calm and giggling while talking on
2411
02:09:19.789 --> 02:09:23.510
the phone the same day that Alan's body was discovered.
2412
02:09:24.880 --> 02:09:31.180
That's bad. Giggly. Giggly. Just teehee. Teehee. This Melton said
2413
02:09:31.260 --> 02:09:34.800
that when she stopped by Tammy Duvall's house that day,
2414
02:09:35.239 --> 02:09:38.270
she already had insurance papers out on her table saying,
2415
02:09:38.970 --> 02:09:41.390
And said she was going to have her husband cremated
2416
02:09:41.430 --> 02:09:47.229
because it was the least expensive option. That's fucked. Wow.
2417
02:09:47.829 --> 02:09:51.750
She said her attitude that morning of was not like
2418
02:09:51.789 --> 02:09:54.489
someone who just lost her husband. If I lost my husband,
2419
02:09:54.630 --> 02:09:58.050
I'd be crazy. She wasn't even crying. No, she's bereaved.
2420
02:09:58.090 --> 02:10:01.569
She's not a sap. No, I'm not. I look like
2421
02:10:01.609 --> 02:10:05.420
a schmuck over here. So they talked to the convenience
2422
02:10:05.460 --> 02:10:08.680
store clerk. Yeah. talked to her that morning and told
2423
02:10:08.739 --> 02:10:13.380
her that her husband was dead, saying that she knew already.
2424
02:10:14.020 --> 02:10:17.939
They talked to Gary, Tammy's boyfriend and insurance agent. That's important.
2425
02:10:19.239 --> 02:10:23.409
Testified that Tammy immediately tried to collect the policy despite
2426
02:10:23.470 --> 02:10:26.949
his advice to wait. He said, don't try to collect
2427
02:10:26.989 --> 02:10:28.710
it right now. It's going to look terrible. You just
2428
02:10:28.750 --> 02:10:30.430
got it a month ago. You're not going to get
2429
02:10:30.489 --> 02:10:34.239
the money and you're going to look suspicious. Don't do it. Yeah,
2430
02:10:34.479 --> 02:10:38.520
and so he also testified about the phone call at 7.30 a.m.
2431
02:10:38.840 --> 02:10:41.350
He's not charged with any crime, although the defense tries
2432
02:10:41.390 --> 02:10:42.949
to paint him as maybe he had something to do
2433
02:10:42.970 --> 02:10:47.210
with this. But the investigators likely determined that he likely
2434
02:10:47.229 --> 02:10:52.020
didn't know shit about what was going on whatsoever. Allen's family,
2435
02:10:52.069 --> 02:10:56.939
multiple cousins, family members, all testify to Allen's character, his
2436
02:10:57.060 --> 02:11:01.300
opposition to drugs, his general happiness of spirit and being.
2437
02:11:01.340 --> 02:11:05.279
Just a pleasant demeanor. Yeah, his hope for a reconciliation
2438
02:11:05.319 --> 02:11:09.930
with Tammy, everything. They also testified that Allen had, in
2439
02:11:10.189 --> 02:11:15.010
one or more of his more prescient moments, they said,
2440
02:11:15.090 --> 02:11:18.810
told people, if I die, make sure it's investigated. He
2441
02:11:18.869 --> 02:11:22.979
told them, like, individually, if I die, make sure it's investigated.
2442
02:11:23.020 --> 02:11:28.439
That's a witness quote right there. The defense case, okay,
2443
02:11:29.579 --> 02:11:32.640
all you can do is it's, you know, Can't say
2444
02:11:32.659 --> 02:11:35.859
it's self-defense. No, you got to say it was a suicide.
2445
02:11:35.880 --> 02:11:37.060
We didn't have anything to do with this.
2446
02:11:37.760 --> 02:11:41.640
So they call Dr. John Pless, a forensic pathologist hired
2447
02:11:41.680 --> 02:11:45.680
by the state to review autopsy results. He will say
2448
02:11:45.779 --> 02:11:50.050
that he believed that Alan died of a morphine overdose
2449
02:11:50.159 --> 02:11:52.319
and that there was no way to tell who administered it.
2450
02:11:52.770 --> 02:11:55.810
He said the drugs found in his system could have
2451
02:11:55.829 --> 02:11:59.909
been used throughout the day that he died and that
2452
02:11:59.970 --> 02:12:04.840
he thinks that the morphine and muscle relaxants were administered first.
2453
02:12:05.380 --> 02:12:09.680
Then Alan ingested the alcohol. So he took in a
2454
02:12:09.859 --> 02:12:13.100
hundred times a therapeutic dose of morphine and then said,
2455
02:12:13.319 --> 02:12:17.039
I need a drink. I am so thirsty. Imagine. Okay.
2456
02:12:17.060 --> 02:12:20.319
Remember on the wire? Let's go back to that. Do
2457
02:12:20.340 --> 02:12:23.359
you remember after bubbles shoots up? What does he do?
2458
02:12:24.600 --> 02:12:27.119
What does he do? He sits there and does what? Yeah, yeah.
2459
02:12:27.229 --> 02:12:31.069
Drools and fucking nods. Yeah, yeah. And that's like stepped
2460
02:12:31.170 --> 02:12:38.909
on street shit. This is pure. Pharmaceutical. Hospice quality fucking morphine.
2461
02:12:38.949 --> 02:12:39.810
Hospice quality.
2462
02:12:39.829 --> 02:12:42.250
Boy, does that tell you. This guy's going to die anyway.
2463
02:12:43.250 --> 02:12:45.529
Just make it not hurt. That's what you're getting.
2464
02:12:45.569 --> 02:12:47.010
Fucking pure.
2465
02:12:47.529 --> 02:12:51.810
Pure is the driven snow. So that's what we're talking
2466
02:12:51.850 --> 02:12:54.369
about here. I mean, this is a totally different thing.
2467
02:12:54.390 --> 02:12:55.250
Hospice quality.
2468
02:12:55.390 --> 02:12:58.069
That's what I want my plug to say when I
2469
02:12:58.130 --> 02:12:59.590
call them for anything.
2470
02:12:59.609 --> 02:13:01.529
Yeah, I want my drug dealer to go, this is
2471
02:13:01.569 --> 02:13:03.050
hospice quality shit right here.
2472
02:13:03.069 --> 02:13:04.210
You want hospice quality?
2473
02:13:04.229 --> 02:13:09.130
That's what I got. It'll distract the dying. So how
2474
02:13:09.170 --> 02:13:11.850
the fuck would they ingest all of that?
2475
02:13:12.149 --> 02:13:17.260
Yeah. 50 times a bubbles dose, and then he'd be like,
2476
02:13:17.420 --> 02:13:22.609
I need a drink. It's got to be try this
2477
02:13:22.909 --> 02:13:26.850
amazing recipe of three ingredients, right?
2478
02:13:27.470 --> 02:13:29.380
You know, this is wild.
2479
02:13:29.399 --> 02:13:30.520
There's actually six.
2480
02:13:31.819 --> 02:13:36.840
Yeah. Yeah, there is six. So they said that the
2481
02:13:36.920 --> 02:13:39.399
manner of his death, in his opinion, was homicide due
2482
02:13:39.439 --> 02:13:42.180
to the level of morphine found. So no one can
2483
02:13:42.199 --> 02:13:45.550
give themselves that much. No way. He said he'd never
2484
02:13:45.649 --> 02:13:47.789
seen a level of morphine that high in a dead
2485
02:13:47.829 --> 02:13:48.409
body ever. Yeah.
2486
02:13:48.409 --> 02:13:52.100
600 times the pharmaceutical dose.
2487
02:13:53.010 --> 02:13:57.369
So in closing, the defense tells the jurors that he
2488
02:13:57.409 --> 02:14:00.689
doesn't think the state proved that Tammy killed her husband.
2489
02:14:00.750 --> 02:14:01.729
He doesn't think so.
2490
02:14:02.289 --> 02:14:04.289
Just doesn't think they proved it. He said, this whole
2491
02:14:04.369 --> 02:14:09.680
case is speculation. Wow. Speculation. He said that the state
2492
02:14:09.720 --> 02:14:13.880
provided a lot of evidence. True. True. But they left
2493
02:14:13.939 --> 02:14:16.140
enough room for plenty of reasonable doubt.
2494
02:14:16.760 --> 02:14:19.699
It's enough for error. Uh, And that error is a
2495
02:14:19.699 --> 02:14:22.720
reasonable doubt. And you must acquit her.
2496
02:14:23.539 --> 02:14:26.819
And then he does– this is like when someone like
2497
02:14:26.899 --> 02:14:30.210
steals a song but changes it just enough. Yeah. This
2498
02:14:30.270 --> 02:14:33.750
is one of those things. He's heard every prosecutor, every
2499
02:14:33.789 --> 02:14:38.090
defense attorney use this particular analogy. And he's going to
2500
02:14:38.890 --> 02:14:41.390
take it, steal it, but twist it just a little
2501
02:14:41.430 --> 02:14:42.850
bit so he doesn't sound like such a hack.
2502
02:14:42.899 --> 02:14:44.100
Nice, nice, baby.
2503
02:14:44.579 --> 02:14:50.609
He compared– yep. He could– here it goes– He compared
2504
02:14:50.649 --> 02:14:55.329
the state's case to putting together a child's toy. What?
2505
02:14:55.350 --> 02:14:55.939
Not a puzzle.
2506
02:14:56.680 --> 02:14:59.939
Every other person said, it's like a puzzle. Sure, there
2507
02:14:59.960 --> 02:15:02.640
might be a few pieces missing, but you see the picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2508
02:15:02.659 --> 02:15:05.560
That's what every attorney says, and then, you know, the
2509
02:15:05.579 --> 02:15:08.520
defense attorney will say, you know, pieces missing. How is
2510
02:15:08.560 --> 02:15:11.319
this like a child's toy? I'm riveted. He said, this
2511
02:15:11.380 --> 02:15:14.479
is like putting together a child's toy. It has hundreds
2512
02:15:14.520 --> 02:15:17.239
of pieces and instructional steps, but it just doesn't come
2513
02:15:17.260 --> 02:15:18.399
together right. Yeah.
2514
02:15:20.140 --> 02:15:23.090
Don't let your kids play with the shit you build them, sir.
2515
02:15:24.310 --> 02:15:27.869
What are you talking about? He's like, I don't want
2516
02:15:27.890 --> 02:15:30.890
to use that tired puzzle one that everybody uses. That's
2517
02:15:30.949 --> 02:15:32.850
just tired.
2518
02:15:32.869 --> 02:15:35.010
I want to talk about the time that I built
2519
02:15:35.229 --> 02:15:38.289
a tricycle out of my kid's four-wheeled car.
2520
02:15:39.939 --> 02:15:42.859
That poor kid, we had another one after the funeral.
2521
02:15:42.979 --> 02:15:46.039
You know, we rebuilt our lives. You know, we didn't
2522
02:15:46.060 --> 02:15:46.619
want to let it go.
2523
02:15:46.720 --> 02:15:48.220
Yeah, we named him Charlie, too.
2524
02:15:48.920 --> 02:15:52.069
Yeah, that's how we did it. But what kid's toys
2525
02:15:52.130 --> 02:15:54.850
besides Legos have hundreds of pieces, by the way?
2526
02:15:55.550 --> 02:15:58.510
Not hundreds. No, it's usually very simple.
2527
02:15:59.069 --> 02:16:00.670
I'll tell you what. If I bought my kids a
2528
02:16:00.710 --> 02:16:04.189
toy like Christmastime and it had hundreds of pieces, I
2529
02:16:04.220 --> 02:16:06.659
would hurl it through the store's front fucking window.
2530
02:16:07.550 --> 02:16:09.489
I'd send it right the fuck back to Amazon, which
2531
02:16:09.550 --> 02:16:10.109
is where I probably buy it.
2532
02:16:10.109 --> 02:16:14.920
Before Christmas morning starts. Yeah. Fuck that. He said that
2533
02:16:14.979 --> 02:16:18.140
if Tammy was smart enough to orchestrate the murder by
2534
02:16:18.239 --> 02:16:22.020
stealing a bottle of morphine five months in advance, buying
2535
02:16:22.060 --> 02:16:25.220
an insurance policy, and convincing her husband to not only
2536
02:16:25.300 --> 02:16:28.460
sign it but then eat poisoned food, don't you think
2537
02:16:28.539 --> 02:16:32.280
she would have had a better escape plan? That's the
2538
02:16:32.319 --> 02:16:35.610
other thing I love. No. No. Don't you think this
2539
02:16:35.690 --> 02:16:38.530
murderer would be less stupid is a terrible defense.
2540
02:16:38.870 --> 02:16:42.110
Other point is he just painted how fucking easy it
2541
02:16:42.170 --> 02:16:47.479
was and how diabolical she is. She's had five months
2542
02:16:47.579 --> 02:16:51.040
planning this and she didn't give herself an out because
2543
02:16:51.079 --> 02:16:52.700
she thought this was good.
2544
02:16:53.040 --> 02:16:55.899
That's what it is. And they said, don't you think
2545
02:16:55.959 --> 02:16:58.319
that if she was that smart to plan it that
2546
02:16:58.360 --> 02:17:00.469
long that she'd have a better escape plan? Her escape
2547
02:17:00.510 --> 02:17:03.809
plan was cremation that day. Yeah. That was the escape plan.
2548
02:17:04.229 --> 02:17:06.420
She thought she got away with it.
2549
02:17:06.930 --> 02:17:10.670
That's it. As soon as cremation wasn't happening that day,
2550
02:17:11.170 --> 02:17:13.250
that's her escape plan. The whole thing's fucked. She had
2551
02:17:13.430 --> 02:17:14.559
one escape plan.
2552
02:17:14.819 --> 02:17:15.930
She had plan A.
2553
02:17:16.379 --> 02:17:20.440
Plan B? Fuck plan B. They said, obviously, there's no
2554
02:17:20.500 --> 02:17:23.200
proof she stole it. So what are you going to do?
2555
02:17:23.559 --> 02:17:27.600
Fuck yourselves. That's what they said. So during sentencing or
2556
02:17:27.639 --> 02:17:30.540
during a verdict here comes in, not sentencing, the jury
2557
02:17:30.600 --> 02:17:35.840
is seven women and five men. Okay. Six hours of deliberation.
2558
02:17:35.899 --> 02:17:36.860
They're talking about it.
2559
02:17:37.260 --> 02:17:41.209
Seven women may have reasons why they would want to
2560
02:17:41.229 --> 02:17:41.850
kill somebody.
2561
02:17:41.870 --> 02:17:44.069
Yeah, I could see it. You know, one of those
2562
02:17:44.090 --> 02:17:46.870
where they go, I'm not saying I'm not saying she didn't,
2563
02:17:47.469 --> 02:17:53.000
but maybe not after. six hours they find him guilty
2564
02:17:53.090 --> 02:17:56.979
of murder yeah and six counts of insurance fraud and
2565
02:17:57.059 --> 02:18:00.780
three counts of obstruction of justice everything everything they could
2566
02:18:01.000 --> 02:18:04.840
everything they put out there guilty guilty guilty guilty during
2567
02:18:04.920 --> 02:18:08.700
sentencing the prosecutor said quote she is a stone cold
2568
02:18:08.799 --> 02:18:11.899
killer plain and simple She killed her husband, a person
2569
02:18:11.940 --> 02:18:14.840
who I feel truly loved her, and all she could
2570
02:18:14.899 --> 02:18:20.729
see was $ 100, 000 stamped on his forehead. That's it. Big stamp.
2571
02:18:20.750 --> 02:18:25.450
Bad bitch. The defense attorney argued that Tammy, she has
2572
02:18:25.489 --> 02:18:29.809
almost no criminal history. So? I mean, she had a
2573
02:18:29.870 --> 02:18:33.649
theft conviction more than 20 years ago. Who cares? And
2574
02:18:33.790 --> 02:18:37.620
she has maintained employment for a long time. Besides that time,
2575
02:18:37.639 --> 02:18:39.979
she had to leave that job because there was fucking
2576
02:18:40.180 --> 02:18:43.819
morphine missing. But besides that, she's very well employed. And
2577
02:18:44.260 --> 02:18:47.290
she's been a productive member of society for most of
2578
02:18:47.350 --> 02:18:53.489
her adult life. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So Tammy also tells
2579
02:18:53.549 --> 02:18:56.829
the judge that she is dissatisfied with her legal representation
2580
02:18:56.909 --> 02:18:59.309
because her public defender did not call some of the
2581
02:18:59.350 --> 02:19:03.110
witnesses or present some of the evidence she suggested.
2582
02:19:03.469 --> 02:19:04.950
So the fuck what?
2583
02:19:05.409 --> 02:19:07.969
You're not even an RN. No. You're definitely not a lawyer.
2584
02:19:08.709 --> 02:19:11.350
You're not even an LPN. You didn't even finish nursing school. Yeah.
2585
02:19:12.309 --> 02:19:14.649
You didn't even finish nursing school, never mind law school.
2586
02:19:14.870 --> 02:19:17.399
What the fuck are you talking about? See, you can't.
2587
02:19:19.719 --> 02:19:22.379
And whenever you see crazy shit, by the way, going
2588
02:19:22.579 --> 02:19:24.299
on with a lawyer and you go, why are they
2589
02:19:24.319 --> 02:19:26.879
doing– like the Corey Richens case, the whole time I
2590
02:19:27.120 --> 02:19:29.959
was saying this has to be Corey. This has to
2591
02:19:30.000 --> 02:19:33.809
be Corey. No lawyer would come up with this as
2592
02:19:33.870 --> 02:19:36.389
a strategy. This has to be what Corey wants. Otherwise,
2593
02:19:36.430 --> 02:19:37.209
it makes no sense.
2594
02:19:37.850 --> 02:19:40.549
What you're saying is you didn't have my green chili
2595
02:19:40.590 --> 02:19:41.309
chicken enchiladas.
2596
02:19:41.569 --> 02:19:44.489
I did. I did. That's what you're saying. That's what
2597
02:19:44.530 --> 02:19:48.180
you're saying. So– That's what I mean. You got that
2598
02:19:48.440 --> 02:19:53.219
and the other one too. It just makes sense that
2599
02:19:53.420 --> 02:19:58.530
all of that goes together. So during this hearing, she's
2600
02:19:58.569 --> 02:20:02.530
not satisfied. Oh, Sarah Boone. That's another one. Sarah Boone
2601
02:20:02.649 --> 02:20:04.629
went through. She was on like her eighth lawyer by
2602
02:20:04.670 --> 02:20:07.250
the time of the trial because none of the lawyers
2603
02:20:07.329 --> 02:20:09.510
would do what she told them to do.
2604
02:20:09.790 --> 02:20:13.590
None of them are doing her strategy because it's going
2605
02:20:13.610 --> 02:20:16.280
to fucking get slammed back in our face.
2606
02:20:16.680 --> 02:20:18.600
That's right. So then she found some guy to fucking
2607
02:20:18.620 --> 02:20:21.420
do it, some ham and egger who, in my opinion,
2608
02:20:21.479 --> 02:20:24.479
probably just needed the publicity and doesn't have that thriving
2609
02:20:24.500 --> 02:20:27.760
of a law practice. Like I said, allegedly, in my opinion.
2610
02:20:27.920 --> 02:20:30.530
Bet she's having a good day. Bet she's having a
2611
02:20:30.549 --> 02:20:33.430
good day, but finally got somebody to fucking do what
2612
02:20:33.469 --> 02:20:36.870
she wanted him to do. Yeah. So they said that
2613
02:20:36.930 --> 02:20:42.250
she believed that, you know, that this is– she's not guilty.
2614
02:20:42.389 --> 02:20:45.930
That's it. Yeah. You know, and Tammy also said that
2615
02:20:46.629 --> 02:20:49.430
she told the judge that she believed that, you know,
2616
02:20:49.889 --> 02:20:53.670
the police had plotted against her basically having, you know,
2617
02:20:53.750 --> 02:20:56.170
telling people things that weren't true to get them to
2618
02:20:56.590 --> 02:21:00.940
say bad things about her. And the prosecution countered with
2619
02:21:01.260 --> 02:21:03.659
they believe she was plotting to defraud the court by
2620
02:21:03.700 --> 02:21:06.700
having the county pay for a transcript of the trial
2621
02:21:06.739 --> 02:21:09.739
for her appeal. And that's why she's doing this. That's
2622
02:21:09.760 --> 02:21:11.600
the only reason why she's saying this, so she can
2623
02:21:11.620 --> 02:21:14.159
get the court to pick. Transcripts are really expensive. Oh,
2624
02:21:14.180 --> 02:21:15.840
I'm sure they are. They cost thousands of dollars. So
2625
02:21:15.860 --> 02:21:17.520
she's trying to get the court to pay for it.
2626
02:21:17.719 --> 02:21:19.760
And if you don't have money, you don't have right
2627
02:21:19.780 --> 02:21:21.700
to just have them printed for you. Transcribed?
2628
02:21:21.739 --> 02:21:23.059
Yeah, that's– You.
2629
02:21:22.959 --> 02:21:24.420
Have a right to an attorney, but you don't have
2630
02:21:24.440 --> 02:21:27.239
a right to a transcript, unfortunately. Yeah. That's tough.
2631
02:21:28.819 --> 02:21:29.520
I don't see that one.
2632
02:21:29.540 --> 02:21:33.040
It's tough. No. There are certain circumstances where they have
2633
02:21:33.059 --> 02:21:35.579
to give you it, but not if you're doing it all.
2634
02:21:36.239 --> 02:21:40.250
The judge found no circumstances that mitigated her sentence, but
2635
02:21:40.360 --> 02:21:44.649
cited certain aggravating factors, including her character and the nature
2636
02:21:44.690 --> 02:21:48.229
of the circumstances of the crime. That's great. An aggravating
2637
02:21:48.290 --> 02:21:51.850
circumstance is your character. You're such a shitty person. It's
2638
02:21:51.909 --> 02:21:54.530
literally an aggravator at your murder trial. You're a dick.
2639
02:21:56.350 --> 02:21:59.770
And he said the murder seemed planned well in advance. You, ma'am,
2640
02:22:00.729 --> 02:22:04.819
may fuck off 60 and one half years in jail.
2641
02:22:05.229 --> 02:22:09.129
And a half. And a half. And six months. 55
2642
02:22:09.129 --> 02:22:14.270
for murder. Uh-huh. Four for insurance fraud. And a year
2643
02:22:14.309 --> 02:22:16.430
and a half for obstruction. Wow. A year and a
2644
02:22:16.450 --> 02:22:18.389
half just for wiping that foam. That's what you get.
2645
02:22:18.409 --> 02:22:21.389
Got her fucking 18 months for that.
2646
02:22:22.170 --> 02:22:26.510
Earliest possible release date, December 8th, 2040.
2647
02:22:26.510 --> 02:22:27.950
Jesus Christ.
2648
02:22:28.129 --> 02:22:32.309
She'd be 81 at the time. Uh-oh. That's not good. Uh-uh.
2649
02:22:33.010 --> 02:22:37.629
The reaction... Members of Allen's family said they were pissed
2650
02:22:37.709 --> 02:22:40.950
off by the sentence. It doesn't seem like that much.
2651
02:22:41.690 --> 02:22:44.090
They said she should have gotten the max on everything.
2652
02:22:44.190 --> 02:22:48.780
She's a murderer. She plotted everything. Duvall's cousin said she's
2653
02:22:48.819 --> 02:22:52.000
a con artist. Killing Allen was her ultimate con. It's
2654
02:22:52.399 --> 02:22:57.299
just not right taking someone's family away like that. The
2655
02:22:57.340 --> 02:23:02.069
husband saying she's a beguiling and shrewd really starts to— Right. Beguiling. Beguiling.
2656
02:23:03.069 --> 02:23:04.950
if she was that beguiling and shrewd, she would have
2657
02:23:04.969 --> 02:23:08.870
got away with this, I think. But yeah, this is,
2658
02:23:10.270 --> 02:23:12.510
she could have, I guess the max was 80 years.
2659
02:23:12.709 --> 02:23:14.309
That would have been the max she could have gotten,
2660
02:23:14.350 --> 02:23:17.659
which really doesn't make that much of a difference. You
2661
02:23:17.719 --> 02:23:21.100
know what I mean? Yeah. The only difference it could
2662
02:23:21.120 --> 02:23:24.379
have made is maybe then she would have been eligible
2663
02:23:24.479 --> 02:23:27.059
for parole when she was 90, which means she'd be dead,
2664
02:23:27.239 --> 02:23:29.659
more likely to be dead than when she's 81, I guess.
2665
02:23:30.559 --> 02:23:33.540
But you go to prison from like, you know, 50
2666
02:23:33.540 --> 02:23:36.319
to fucking 81, you're not going to last that. No.
2667
02:23:37.319 --> 02:23:39.180
They gave her as many years as they gave her.
2668
02:23:39.899 --> 02:23:43.329
The earliest is going to be out at 2040. That's
2669
02:23:43.440 --> 02:23:45.729
still so far away.
2670
02:23:45.750 --> 02:23:48.549
So long. It's so far away. Yeah, another 20 years
2671
02:23:48.610 --> 02:23:51.750
maybe would have added, since it's, what, 2040, there'd be 40,
2672
02:23:51.750 --> 02:23:54.129
so it's about two-thirds of the sentence.
2673
02:23:54.170 --> 02:23:54.370
Yeah.
2674
02:23:54.750 --> 02:23:58.649
So that would have added another 13 years or some
2675
02:23:58.690 --> 02:24:01.700
shit to it, which— I mean, yeah.
2676
02:24:01.840 --> 02:24:04.940
That guarantees pretty much that she dies in there, but
2677
02:24:05.360 --> 02:24:07.719
it might be the difference. So maybe she'll get out
2678
02:24:07.979 --> 02:24:11.049
and she'll have to have a CNA take care of
2679
02:24:11.110 --> 02:24:12.129
her for the rest of her life.
2680
02:24:12.149 --> 02:24:14.549
Yeah, wipe her ass and hopefully overdose her on something.
2681
02:24:14.610 --> 02:24:17.790
But this is– I guess that's the difference between maybe
2682
02:24:17.850 --> 02:24:21.129
parole at 81 and maybe parole at 95. Yeah. Which
2683
02:24:21.190 --> 02:24:23.850
is– so, yeah, they could be right about that. And
2684
02:24:23.899 --> 02:24:26.639
that's their opinion. They're allowed to have it. So this
2685
02:24:26.719 --> 02:24:31.010
trial was covered really– A lot locally. The Republic newspaper
2686
02:24:31.049 --> 02:24:33.989
in Columbus. It took over their whole front page for
2687
02:24:34.030 --> 02:24:40.030
a while there. Later featured on Oxygen Snapped. Any time
2688
02:24:40.069 --> 02:24:43.629
a woman kills a man, it's on Snapped. Period. That's
2689
02:24:43.950 --> 02:24:47.870
all it is. Season 17, episode 8, After the Verdict.
2690
02:24:49.090 --> 02:24:53.409
And also different specials. A Recipe for Murder. The Poison
2691
02:24:53.450 --> 02:24:57.159
Pudding Murder. Yeah. All of that shit. I mean, that
2692
02:24:57.239 --> 02:25:01.909
shit's poison in the first place. I love pudding. Yeah,
2693
02:25:01.930 --> 02:25:06.549
but not Jell-O, right? Oh, not, what do you mean?
2694
02:25:06.629 --> 02:25:08.649
Jell-O or pudding? Not Jell-O pudding. Or Jell-O pudding. Jell-O
2695
02:25:08.670 --> 02:25:09.229
brand pudding?
2696
02:25:09.350 --> 02:25:10.809
Yeah, that shit's disgusting.
2697
02:25:11.989 --> 02:25:14.489
I think it's great. Do you? I love it. Yeah.
2698
02:25:14.530 --> 02:25:14.790
Really?
2699
02:25:15.469 --> 02:25:18.049
Not the instant. I will not eat instant pudding.
2700
02:25:18.090 --> 02:25:19.469
Just stir it up and throw it.
2701
02:25:19.850 --> 02:25:20.950
That's disgusting.
2702
02:25:20.979 --> 02:25:22.959
One bite, throw that shit right in the garbage. In
2703
02:25:23.000 --> 02:25:23.520
a cup?
2704
02:25:23.540 --> 02:25:24.059
Disgusting.
2705
02:25:24.319 --> 02:25:26.520
In a cup? I'll pour that in your asshole and
2706
02:25:26.540 --> 02:25:26.819
eat it.
2707
02:25:26.819 --> 02:25:29.000
Out, James. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I was like, are
2708
02:25:29.020 --> 02:25:31.690
you crazy? Pudding cups, especially the mix with the vanilla
2709
02:25:31.750 --> 02:25:34.629
and the chocolate together. Are you kidding? Not only that.
2710
02:25:35.069 --> 02:25:35.829
The caramel.
2711
02:25:35.850 --> 02:25:38.870
Cook and serve. The cook and serve is my favorite
2712
02:25:38.889 --> 02:25:40.590
thing in the world because that has the pudding skin
2713
02:25:40.729 --> 02:25:42.920
on it. And I am a huge fan of pudding skin.
2714
02:25:43.620 --> 02:25:46.420
I make the cook and serve and I'll make two packages.
2715
02:25:46.739 --> 02:25:48.639
And then I got to go on all my cabinets
2716
02:25:48.659 --> 02:25:52.360
looking for the like looking for things that are like flat.
2717
02:25:52.399 --> 02:25:54.329
So it makes the most pudding skin. I don't want
2718
02:25:54.620 --> 02:25:56.969
I don't want tall and deep. I want short and wide.
2719
02:25:56.989 --> 02:26:02.329
I don't care. So I love it. I don't care
2720
02:26:02.370 --> 02:26:05.600
who knows it, Jimmy. I'm not embarrassed. How do you
2721
02:26:05.659 --> 02:26:06.159
do it?
2722
02:26:06.260 --> 02:26:07.440
Is it like a chicken skin?
2723
02:26:07.500 --> 02:26:09.159
Oh, I mix it in. I mix it in with
2724
02:26:09.200 --> 02:26:10.469
the pudding. That way every once in a while I
2725
02:26:10.489 --> 02:26:12.610
get this little chunk of pudding skin. Oh, okay.
2726
02:26:12.649 --> 02:26:13.270
I can see that.
2727
02:26:13.909 --> 02:26:17.209
I thought you were like peeling it like a scab. No, no, no.
2728
02:26:17.290 --> 02:26:20.389
I'm eating all the whole pudding. No, no, no. So
2729
02:26:20.430 --> 02:26:22.659
I have all of these containers out all over my
2730
02:26:22.719 --> 02:26:25.959
counter and there's like boiled pudding everywhere all over my
2731
02:26:26.000 --> 02:26:28.719
countertops and floor. And then I have to take all
2732
02:26:28.739 --> 02:26:30.459
of our good food out of the fridge and fill
2733
02:26:30.500 --> 02:26:33.739
that with all these containers of puddings. And then I
2734
02:26:33.780 --> 02:26:35.399
eat like seven of them in one night and I
2735
02:26:35.440 --> 02:26:38.819
get myself super sick. You're a monster. I'm a monster.
2736
02:26:39.920 --> 02:26:41.649
That's what happens when you smoke a bunch of weed
2737
02:26:41.680 --> 02:26:43.229
and it's 2 a.m. and you have too much pudding
2738
02:26:43.260 --> 02:26:48.389
in your cabinets. They start having pudding in their cabinets. Like, fuck,
2739
02:26:49.389 --> 02:26:51.090
I got to eat that pudding. And then I have
2740
02:26:51.129 --> 02:26:52.469
to wait for it. So I have to like go
2741
02:26:52.510 --> 02:26:54.329
in there and feel it. Is it still warm? No,
2742
02:26:54.370 --> 02:26:59.870
I want to wait for it to get cold. I do. Jesus,
2743
02:26:59.950 --> 02:27:01.829
I'm stoned. Well, I'll smoke more and then I'll come
2744
02:27:01.850 --> 02:27:06.329
back and. I'll have more pudding skin. It's been a
2745
02:27:06.389 --> 02:27:09.469
while since I've had any of that. So she goes
2746
02:27:09.530 --> 02:27:15.030
to prison. DOC number is 215966. She's in the Rockville
2747
02:27:15.090 --> 02:27:18.569
Correctional Facility in Indiana. And we'll talk about her appeals
2748
02:27:18.629 --> 02:27:21.889
in a second here. Oh, boy. But a few similar cases,
2749
02:27:21.909 --> 02:27:25.159
because this is a very common thing that goes on. Poison?
2750
02:27:25.420 --> 02:27:29.260
Very common. Yeah, poison of a I made you this
2751
02:27:29.379 --> 02:27:35.860
and it's poison type of shit. That's... That's crazy. But
2752
02:27:35.889 --> 02:27:37.889
you know what? It shows planning. Like if a man
2753
02:27:37.930 --> 02:27:39.969
was trying to poison you, they'd grab you in a headlock.
2754
02:27:40.120 --> 02:27:41.379
and go, you fucking put it in your fucking mouth
2755
02:27:41.420 --> 02:27:43.379
right now. And they'd try to stuff it into your face.
2756
02:27:43.399 --> 02:27:45.850
You eat that fucking poison. That's how they poison you.
2757
02:27:46.319 --> 02:27:49.719
We don't make desserts. We make cheeseburgers and steaks. You're
2758
02:27:49.739 --> 02:27:50.979
going to put some fucking.
2759
02:27:50.719 --> 02:27:53.700
Poison on a cheeseburger? I will not ruin my cheeseburger.
2760
02:27:53.790 --> 02:27:57.370
If you show up with a pudding recipe... Someone's suspicious.
2761
02:27:57.530 --> 02:28:01.760
Somebody's got some questions. Jimmy doesn't make pudding. Did you
2762
02:28:01.879 --> 02:28:04.180
crumble cookie on that? I don't believe it for a second.
2763
02:28:05.100 --> 02:28:08.209
Not buying it. It's asphalt, isn't it? No fucking way. Yeah,
2764
02:28:08.270 --> 02:28:10.049
what is that? What'd you put on there? Is that ashes?
2765
02:28:11.760 --> 02:28:13.200
Is that cigarette ashes? What are you doing?
2766
02:28:13.260 --> 02:28:16.010
So much so, you know what? My daughter just had
2767
02:28:16.030 --> 02:28:19.989
a volleyball thing, and we made cupcakes and took them
2768
02:28:20.129 --> 02:28:22.350
to the girls, and I just dropped her off with
2769
02:28:22.370 --> 02:28:25.399
the girls. And then the girls were like, where'd these
2770
02:28:25.459 --> 02:28:27.280
come from? And Preston was like, my dad and I
2771
02:28:27.319 --> 02:28:31.200
made them. They didn't eat a single fucking cupcake.
2772
02:28:33.659 --> 02:28:36.280
You don't look like a reliable cupcake source, apparently.
2773
02:28:36.620 --> 02:28:38.639
He's saying that bald guy with the beard made them.
2774
02:28:38.780 --> 02:28:39.260
Fuck that.
2775
02:28:39.280 --> 02:28:42.059
Nobody's eating them. They're like, there's at least beard hair
2776
02:28:42.100 --> 02:28:45.440
in here somewhere. Never mind. They're not eating it.
2777
02:28:45.500 --> 02:28:48.649
I go, press out with the cupcakes. And she goes, oh,
2778
02:28:48.870 --> 02:28:50.670
we threw them all away. I was like, all of them?
2779
02:28:50.690 --> 02:28:52.229
She goes, nobody ate any of them.
2780
02:28:52.250 --> 02:28:52.909
I'm like, why not you?
2781
02:28:52.969 --> 02:28:54.690
And she goes, I didn't want one. I was like,
2782
02:28:54.850 --> 02:28:59.250
what the fuck? I eat your cooking all the time.
2783
02:29:00.209 --> 02:29:03.809
What the fuck, man? They were delicious. They were fun, Fatty.
2784
02:29:03.889 --> 02:29:04.969
I loved them. I ate them.
2785
02:29:05.030 --> 02:29:06.590
I had two of them here before I sent them
2786
02:29:06.610 --> 02:29:07.030
with her.
2787
02:29:07.489 --> 02:29:08.799
Those are good as fuck.
2788
02:29:09.260 --> 02:29:11.379
With the little shit inside them.
2789
02:29:11.719 --> 02:29:13.479
Yeah, the speckled. The big chewy shit.
2790
02:29:13.520 --> 02:29:18.229
Yeah, not the fucking sprinkles. We get the good ones.
2791
02:29:18.440 --> 02:29:21.510
It's in there. Yeah, it's in the shit. So that's
2792
02:29:21.569 --> 02:29:24.690
why men don't usually have this poisoning thing. And we
2793
02:29:24.750 --> 02:29:26.799
usually go about it a little more of a violent way.
2794
02:29:27.239 --> 02:29:29.760
Whereas a lot of times a woman, if they're smaller
2795
02:29:29.780 --> 02:29:31.280
or they don't have whatever, this is the way they
2796
02:29:31.299 --> 02:29:34.139
have to go about it. So this is mainly a
2797
02:29:35.200 --> 02:29:38.829
woman-y crime here. Number one, Corey Richens, first of all.
2798
02:29:39.489 --> 02:29:42.209
I mean, this is a very similar case to Corey Richens.
2799
02:29:42.809 --> 02:29:43.569
Very similar.
2800
02:29:43.790 --> 02:29:44.930
Minus the food, right?
2801
02:29:45.850 --> 02:29:48.940
No. Well, she put it in a drink. Right. But
2802
02:29:48.959 --> 02:29:50.700
she had tried to poison him with a sandwich.
2803
02:29:50.719 --> 02:29:51.840
Oh, with several things, yeah.
2804
02:29:52.120 --> 02:29:54.159
A month and a half before that or on Valentine's
2805
02:29:54.200 --> 02:29:57.299
Day with a sandwich. Tune into Patreon for more on that.
2806
02:29:57.379 --> 02:30:00.000
But she had tried to poison him with that shit
2807
02:30:00.459 --> 02:30:03.180
and then just kept at it. She's like, you never
2808
02:30:03.219 --> 02:30:06.489
give up is what you do there. Keep making her
2809
02:30:06.520 --> 02:30:09.190
food that tastes shitty. He's going to eat a lot. Yeah,
2810
02:30:09.430 --> 02:30:11.770
he'll get used to it. He'll just think maybe my
2811
02:30:11.809 --> 02:30:14.510
taste buds are going wrong here. Maybe it's me. Maybe
2812
02:30:14.549 --> 02:30:20.250
it's me. There's also Sabrina Lyman. who in California was
2813
02:30:20.290 --> 02:30:24.950
convicted in 2017. She and her lover, a guy named
2814
02:30:24.969 --> 02:30:28.799
Jonathan Hearn, who was a firefighter, plotted to kill her husband,
2815
02:30:28.920 --> 02:30:33.479
Robert Lyman. They first attempted arsenic poisoning by lacing his
2816
02:30:33.540 --> 02:30:37.700
favorite banana pudding. We're up to pudding again. I guess
2817
02:30:37.719 --> 02:30:39.909
because people think it's real sweet, and if you mix
2818
02:30:39.940 --> 02:30:41.790
it in, you don't see it. So it'll kind of
2819
02:30:41.829 --> 02:30:42.549
dissolve in there.
2820
02:30:42.590 --> 02:30:44.850
And you take big fucking plugs of that shit.
2821
02:30:44.870 --> 02:30:48.049
Yeah, people just eat pudding. But they know what pudding
2822
02:30:48.110 --> 02:30:50.959
tastes like is the thing. I know I can pick
2823
02:30:51.000 --> 02:30:54.260
a shit pudding out any time. Oh, God, snack pack
2824
02:30:54.299 --> 02:30:55.780
caramel and chocolate blend?
2825
02:30:56.079 --> 02:30:57.280
If I take a big plug of that and it
2826
02:30:57.299 --> 02:30:59.360
doesn't taste like what I know it tastes like, it's
2827
02:30:59.399 --> 02:31:00.389
going right back in the sink.
2828
02:31:00.889 --> 02:31:06.100
That's it, right in the garbage. Um, so they said, uh, um, or,
2829
02:31:06.219 --> 02:31:08.840
and sending it to work with him, sent the pudding
2830
02:31:08.860 --> 02:31:11.780
to work with him. Sabrina reportedly placed it in his lunch,
2831
02:31:12.100 --> 02:31:14.389
but later called to warn him not to eat it
2832
02:31:14.450 --> 02:31:19.590
because quote, the bananas had gone bad. Maybe they were spoiled.
2833
02:31:19.649 --> 02:31:21.909
I realized I use spoiled banana, so don't eat it.
2834
02:31:22.350 --> 02:31:25.090
Um, she called to say that after he took, after
2835
02:31:25.110 --> 02:31:26.750
he ate it to try to be like, to try
2836
02:31:26.770 --> 02:31:27.450
to cover it up.
2837
02:31:28.129 --> 02:31:30.709
I possible, or she had second thoughts. It's going to
2838
02:31:30.729 --> 02:31:33.100
get traced back to me. One of the two. Um,
2839
02:31:33.739 --> 02:31:35.840
because that she, cause if you send it to work
2840
02:31:35.879 --> 02:31:37.760
with him and then he drops dead at work, now
2841
02:31:37.799 --> 02:31:39.959
that banana pudding is not in your control anymore.
2842
02:31:40.180 --> 02:31:40.459
Right.
2843
02:31:40.639 --> 02:31:43.120
And they're going to take that banana pudding and test it. Sure.
2844
02:31:43.379 --> 02:31:43.559
Yeah.
2845
02:31:43.719 --> 02:31:46.579
The same way she made sure with that other guy
2846
02:31:46.620 --> 02:31:48.979
to take, uh, Tammy made sure to take the bowl
2847
02:31:49.000 --> 02:31:51.620
with her. And, uh, when they showed up with Corey,
2848
02:31:51.760 --> 02:31:54.280
Corey Richens and all that, none of the glasses had
2849
02:31:54.329 --> 02:31:56.340
traces of fentanyl in them cause they'd already been washed.
2850
02:31:56.489 --> 02:31:59.049
You know what I'm saying? So it's shit like that. Um,
2851
02:31:59.629 --> 02:32:04.670
so anyway, uh, that failed. then they later staged a
2852
02:32:04.750 --> 02:32:07.170
workplace shooting to look like a robbery.
2853
02:32:08.350 --> 02:32:09.329
That's how they did it?
2854
02:32:10.030 --> 02:32:14.309
This is fucking crazy. Hearn testified extensively, the firefighter, about
2855
02:32:14.329 --> 02:32:18.000
the pudding plan, including testing arsenic on a neighbor's dog.
2856
02:32:18.500 --> 02:32:23.510
Oh my God, could these people get worse? Some poor,
2857
02:32:23.549 --> 02:32:25.750
innocent fucking dog is going to take the brunt of
2858
02:32:25.770 --> 02:32:25.969
this shit.
2859
02:32:25.989 --> 02:32:26.920
What are you, head and shoulders?
2860
02:32:26.930 --> 02:32:29.159
You're doing animal testing, you piece of shit. This is
2861
02:32:29.180 --> 02:32:34.979
fucking disgusting. Holy shit. A dog, too. Sabrina was convicted
2862
02:32:35.020 --> 02:32:38.139
of first-degree murder and conspiracy, but acquitted of the attempted
2863
02:32:38.180 --> 02:32:40.930
poisoning charge due to lack of physical evidence. She got
2864
02:32:40.930 --> 02:32:46.090
25 to life, though. Wow. That's crazy. Here's another one
2865
02:32:46.110 --> 02:32:49.530
that's sort of similar here. Stacey Castor in New York,
2866
02:32:49.530 --> 02:32:55.610
2000 and 2005. Oh, she poisoned both of her husbands
2867
02:32:55.649 --> 02:33:01.520
with antifreeze. Oh Jesus. Her first husband, Michael Wallace died
2868
02:33:01.559 --> 02:33:05.579
in 2000, initially ruled a heart attack. And her second husband,
2869
02:33:05.620 --> 02:33:09.899
David Castor in 2005, initially staged a suit as a
2870
02:33:09.979 --> 02:33:14.610
suicide with a glass of antifreeze and a suicide note. Oh,
2871
02:33:15.389 --> 02:33:18.930
she used a Turkey baster to administer the poison. I hope,
2872
02:33:19.290 --> 02:33:22.120
I hope she wasn't putting that in other places. Um,
2873
02:33:22.770 --> 02:33:26.079
When suspicion arose, she attempted to kill her daughter by
2874
02:33:26.190 --> 02:33:30.020
spiking her drinks with pills and vodka and forging a
2875
02:33:30.120 --> 02:33:32.360
note framing her daughter for the murders.
2876
02:33:32.739 --> 02:33:35.040
Oh, this bitch is crazy.
2877
02:33:35.379 --> 02:33:38.120
Somehow she's worse than the last one we just talked about.
2878
02:33:38.860 --> 02:33:40.510
With the dog. At least they didn't try to kill
2879
02:33:40.530 --> 02:33:43.829
her kid, her daughter, and blame her for it, too.
2880
02:33:44.110 --> 02:33:45.590
Frame her for the second.
2881
02:33:46.569 --> 02:33:47.030
Wow.
2882
02:33:47.469 --> 02:33:50.110
She was going to kill a third and frame the
2883
02:33:50.170 --> 02:33:51.430
third for her second.
2884
02:33:51.829 --> 02:33:57.639
For her second. Now exhumation, uh, I guess they, they,
2885
02:33:57.680 --> 02:33:59.600
she got away with it pretty much. And then exhumation
2886
02:33:59.620 --> 02:34:04.559
toxicology revealed antifreeze in both husbands. Wow. She was convicted
2887
02:34:04.620 --> 02:34:08.319
of second degree murder, uh, for her husband and attempted
2888
02:34:08.379 --> 02:34:12.059
murder against her daughter. How is it second degree murder?
2889
02:34:12.579 --> 02:34:17.440
This is planned as fuck. Yeah. You can't poison on
2890
02:34:17.500 --> 02:34:22.530
a whim. No. You know what I mean? Or whatever. Um, Wow.
2891
02:34:23.049 --> 02:34:26.290
They had a fucking suicide note and shit and everything.
2892
02:34:26.329 --> 02:34:29.340
That is diabolical. She died in prison in 2016. Wow.
2893
02:34:29.379 --> 02:34:37.299
That was fast. Also, Joanne Curley in Pennsylvania in 1991,
2894
02:34:37.299 --> 02:34:42.719
she slowly poisoned her husband, Robert Curley, with thallium, which
2895
02:34:42.739 --> 02:34:45.829
is from rat poison. Over the course of a year,
2896
02:34:46.409 --> 02:34:51.309
she did this. That's diabolical. She started shortly after their marriage,
2897
02:34:51.569 --> 02:34:56.530
spiked his iced tea and food repeatedly, causing prolonged symptoms. And, oh,
2898
02:34:56.549 --> 02:35:00.709
they're always misdiagnosed. And did we cover this one? I
2899
02:35:00.770 --> 02:35:05.860
feel like because Valium sounds familiar. Yeah. Well, also, he
2900
02:35:06.239 --> 02:35:09.260
kept getting misdiagnosed as something else because that I remember.
2901
02:35:09.920 --> 02:35:13.520
And she finally gave him a massive dose in pizza
2902
02:35:13.600 --> 02:35:19.270
and tea. And she pleaded guilty to third-degree murder. And
2903
02:35:19.350 --> 02:35:24.069
served 20 years about and was released in 2016. Oh, Jesus.
2904
02:35:24.129 --> 02:35:28.290
She's out there? She's out there, everybody. Take a look.
2905
02:35:28.809 --> 02:35:34.239
And then finally, Audrey Marie Hilly in Alabama, convicted in 83.
2906
02:35:34.239 --> 02:35:37.020
She's known as the Alabama Black Widow. Oh, yeah. She
2907
02:35:37.159 --> 02:35:41.579
poisoned everybody. She poisoned her husband, Frank, with arsenic over time.
2908
02:35:43.219 --> 02:35:46.209
Initially thought to be natural causes. Then she attempted to
2909
02:35:46.270 --> 02:35:49.370
poison her daughter with arsenic while faking her own death
2910
02:35:49.450 --> 02:35:55.950
and assuming a new identity. She collected insurance and remarried,
2911
02:35:55.989 --> 02:35:59.159
and her second husband survived but got sick. Arsenic was
2912
02:35:59.219 --> 02:36:03.020
detected and exhumed remains. She was convicted of murder and
2913
02:36:03.079 --> 02:36:06.659
attempted murder. She escaped briefly but was recaptured and died
2914
02:36:06.700 --> 02:36:10.059
in prison. What a mess. Holy shit. I feel like
2915
02:36:10.079 --> 02:36:12.579
we covered her, too. Audrey Marie Hilley.
2916
02:36:13.180 --> 02:36:17.920
Perhaps the women that do this too are like extra
2917
02:36:17.979 --> 02:36:21.479
fucked up where they escape or they get out and
2918
02:36:21.559 --> 02:36:26.139
change their name or there's an extra layer to their
2919
02:36:26.219 --> 02:36:26.780
fucked up.
2920
02:36:27.200 --> 02:36:31.079
Yes. Because to do this particular shit, you have to
2921
02:36:31.149 --> 02:36:33.409
be fucking diabolical.
2922
02:36:33.850 --> 02:36:37.829
Over time. Over time. You're poisoning them eight, nine, ten
2923
02:36:37.909 --> 02:36:39.899
times and then finally a big one.
2924
02:36:40.860 --> 02:36:44.889
Well, even think about Tammy. Go back to Tammy. Five
2925
02:36:45.049 --> 02:36:48.469
months of planning this, getting the drugs five months earlier.
2926
02:36:48.530 --> 02:36:52.709
Think about five months. That's not I'm mad and I
2927
02:36:53.129 --> 02:36:56.530
choked this person to death or I shot them. That
2928
02:36:56.610 --> 02:37:00.940
is fucking sick. So long. You have so many opportunities
2929
02:37:00.979 --> 02:37:03.479
to change your mind, like all the time in the
2930
02:37:03.500 --> 02:37:07.959
world to change your mind. So anyway, July 2011, Duvall's
2931
02:37:08.020 --> 02:37:11.260
attorneys file a motion asking for the circuit court to
2932
02:37:11.319 --> 02:37:15.090
correct errors in her trial and request that five of
2933
02:37:15.149 --> 02:37:18.989
her insurance fraud convictions and two of her obstruction convictions
2934
02:37:19.129 --> 02:37:22.290
and the sentences she received for those all be vacated.
2935
02:37:23.950 --> 02:37:29.549
In August of 2011– the judge denies the request to
2936
02:37:29.709 --> 02:37:33.000
overturn seven of the ten convictions and tells her you're
2937
02:37:33.020 --> 02:37:36.899
fine get your ass back to jail september 2012 is
2938
02:37:36.940 --> 02:37:40.860
her big appeal for the indiana court of appeals they
2939
02:37:41.059 --> 02:37:45.299
um she appeals on these issues Whether the trial court
2940
02:37:45.340 --> 02:37:49.420
abused its discretion in admitting Stephen Brown's testimony about the
2941
02:37:49.479 --> 02:37:53.620
alleged poison, the prior poisoning. Yeah. Because remember that they
2942
02:37:53.670 --> 02:37:55.809
opened the door of the defense and they're arguing they didn't.
2943
02:37:56.950 --> 02:37:59.469
So that's a real ticky-tack legal thing they're arguing there,
2944
02:38:00.229 --> 02:38:04.590
which can overturn shit, though. Whether the admission of testimony
2945
02:38:04.629 --> 02:38:08.750
about the missing Roxanol at Miller's Merry Manor was fundamental error.
2946
02:38:10.030 --> 02:38:10.670
Seems pretty clear.
2947
02:38:11.280 --> 02:38:14.280
Relevant to this missing and there's some in him.
2948
02:38:15.200 --> 02:38:19.360
Yeah. Whether multiple insurance fraud and obstruction of justice conviction
2949
02:38:19.440 --> 02:38:24.760
should be merged as a single continuing offense. Um, so
2950
02:38:25.500 --> 02:38:30.940
the murder conviction is affirmed. That's different. That's, that's good.
2951
02:38:31.040 --> 02:38:34.120
And then the judge wrote that in, as far as
2952
02:38:34.170 --> 02:38:38.309
Steven Brown's testimony, admission may have been technical error, but
2953
02:38:38.409 --> 02:38:44.069
harmless evidence, There was overwhelming independent evidence of guilt. Basically,
2954
02:38:44.110 --> 02:38:46.309
if he didn't testify at all, you'd still find her guilty.
2955
02:38:46.450 --> 02:38:52.159
Wouldn't matter. The Roxanol testimony, no fundamental error, properly admitted
2956
02:38:52.219 --> 02:38:56.180
as evidence of access to the murder weapon. Makes perfect
2957
02:38:56.219 --> 02:39:00.399
sense to me. And also insurance fraud and obstruction, the
2958
02:39:00.440 --> 02:39:06.190
continuing crime doctrine applied. Six insurance fraud convictions reduced to
2959
02:39:06.709 --> 02:39:11.409
one crime. three obstruction convictions reduced to one. So they
2960
02:39:11.450 --> 02:39:15.610
do that. They do the continuing crime doctrine. So those
2961
02:39:15.649 --> 02:39:18.010
are all smushed into one rather than six and three.
2962
02:39:18.610 --> 02:39:24.879
So now there's that. October 24th, 2012, her attorneys file
2963
02:39:24.920 --> 02:39:27.180
a brief with the Indiana Court of Appeals asking for
2964
02:39:27.200 --> 02:39:32.840
a rehearing. They deny her. They also petition the Supreme
2965
02:39:32.920 --> 02:39:36.379
Court of Indiana to hear the case. Um, in January
2966
02:39:36.420 --> 02:39:40.940
of 2013, the Indiana Supreme court declined to hear further appeal.
2967
02:39:42.100 --> 02:39:43.600
We are sick of hearing from you.
2968
02:39:43.659 --> 02:39:44.540
Don't care.
2969
02:39:44.760 --> 02:39:48.049
Yeah. The court's refusal to hear her appeal means her
2970
02:39:48.190 --> 02:39:51.909
only recourse is seeking post conviction relief by arguing a
2971
02:39:51.950 --> 02:39:54.809
new point. She can't with none of the shit she's
2972
02:39:54.909 --> 02:39:59.149
used such as ineffective assistance of counsel. Um, none of
2973
02:39:59.170 --> 02:40:02.639
this shit has worked for her. Um, She remains at
2974
02:40:02.680 --> 02:40:04.940
the Rockville Correctional Facility.
2975
02:40:05.200 --> 02:40:06.120
Yeah.
2976
02:40:06.559 --> 02:40:10.680
Her case got a lot of attention. Right. Nancy Grace
2977
02:40:10.739 --> 02:40:13.309
devoted a full episode to it in August of 2010.
2978
02:40:13.309 --> 02:40:16.870
What if we can't get away from fucking Nancy Grace, man?
2979
02:40:17.030 --> 02:40:17.989
Oh, we never will.
2980
02:40:18.489 --> 02:40:19.309
We never will.
2981
02:40:19.469 --> 02:40:20.270
She's going to.
2982
02:40:20.209 --> 02:40:24.270
Stick around forever. Just hear that voice always. Always. There's something.
2983
02:40:24.729 --> 02:40:28.790
She's the most sanctimonious sounding human being I've ever heard. Yeah.
2984
02:40:29.290 --> 02:40:31.069
It seems like. It's her tone. Yeah.
2985
02:40:31.870 --> 02:40:34.270
She was right evidently a couple of times in her
2986
02:40:34.309 --> 02:40:34.909
life somewhere.
2987
02:40:34.930 --> 02:40:36.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And people loved it.
2988
02:40:37.670 --> 02:40:40.430
And now they can't get enough of her voice.
2989
02:40:40.450 --> 02:40:45.120
That's what I don't get. I hate her. I can't
2990
02:40:45.200 --> 02:40:49.340
stand her. I can't stand her because her brand of
2991
02:40:49.420 --> 02:40:53.469
prosecutor is a brand that is like you know how
2992
02:40:53.489 --> 02:40:56.030
you're going to act if you're a woman prosecutor in
2993
02:40:56.049 --> 02:41:00.629
the South. It's like her. Watch the trial in the staircase. Uh-huh.
2994
02:41:01.430 --> 02:41:04.629
That lady. That is like exactly... She is the exact
2995
02:41:04.709 --> 02:41:09.459
Nancy Grace prototype where she's like, he was bisexual. Like
2996
02:41:09.479 --> 02:41:13.569
doing like that, like this... Mixing like, you know, almost
2997
02:41:13.729 --> 02:41:18.040
preaching in with this like judge him for his lifestyle.
2998
02:41:18.379 --> 02:41:22.700
I just hate it. He does not belong here. Yeah,
2999
02:41:22.840 --> 02:41:23.799
if you know what I mean.
3000
02:41:23.819 --> 02:41:24.739
You know where he belongs.
3001
02:41:24.760 --> 02:41:26.760
What I mean. Wank, wank.
3002
02:41:27.319 --> 02:41:29.139
Put him in there where he'll be happy.
3003
02:41:29.899 --> 02:41:33.030
Yeah, where he'll be happy with all the others. They're
3004
02:41:33.049 --> 02:41:36.489
going to be floating around there just to float. That's
3005
02:41:36.549 --> 02:41:38.850
the kind of thing that she sounds like to me.
3006
02:41:38.870 --> 02:41:40.190
I don't know if she's like that or not, but
3007
02:41:40.229 --> 02:41:42.090
her voice makes my skin crawl.
3008
02:41:42.629 --> 02:41:43.399
I don't like her.
3009
02:41:43.530 --> 02:41:45.479
I don't care.
3010
02:41:45.510 --> 02:41:49.739
She just acts like somebody did this to her personally,
3011
02:41:50.920 --> 02:41:53.020
and nobody did, Nance.
3012
02:41:53.280 --> 02:41:57.620
Calm the fuck down. She called it the Oreo pudding murder.
3013
02:41:58.879 --> 02:42:02.819
Then there was the snapped one, poisonous love. Yeah. That
3014
02:42:02.860 --> 02:42:05.319
was the name of that episode. It was alongside the
3015
02:42:05.360 --> 02:42:07.909
Nancy Kissel case. What we talked about, about a double
3016
02:42:07.940 --> 02:42:11.670
feature about wives who poisoned their husband, the ID channels,
3017
02:42:11.790 --> 02:42:15.069
fatal vows series covered the case in an episode titled
3018
02:42:15.430 --> 02:42:22.270
death for dessert. Uh, and, his cousins, David Thompson, Donald Duvall,
3019
02:42:22.309 --> 02:42:25.989
Barbara Honia, Zilla Thompson, or Zyla Thompson all appeared in
3020
02:42:26.030 --> 02:42:30.649
the documentary coverage expressing grief. And, uh, Basically also the
3021
02:42:30.750 --> 02:42:33.610
fact that they're just so mad for $ 100, 000. This is
3022
02:42:33.659 --> 02:42:38.520
all for $ 100, 000. His cousin said, she took a great
3023
02:42:38.579 --> 02:42:40.860
guy out of all of our lives that we love dearly.
3024
02:42:41.120 --> 02:42:43.079
He was just the light of the party and everybody
3025
02:42:43.139 --> 02:42:45.659
cheered up when he showed up. He was just always
3026
02:42:45.700 --> 02:42:48.629
so happy and so positive. They could have gone, they
3027
02:42:48.649 --> 02:42:51.309
could have gave her 200 years. She ain't going to
3028
02:42:51.350 --> 02:42:55.909
live long enough to live those out. So they gave
3029
02:42:55.950 --> 02:42:58.739
her the rest of her life. But they didn't. Give
3030
02:42:58.780 --> 02:43:00.129
her the rest of her life. 81?
3031
02:43:00.120 --> 02:43:01.549
That's very doable.
3032
02:43:02.229 --> 02:43:04.670
That's doable, yeah, especially if she keeps in good shape.
3033
02:43:04.770 --> 02:43:11.709
Especially a woman. Yeah, women live longer, period. Now, this
3034
02:43:11.930 --> 02:43:16.600
Crime Watch Daily, this was 2016, also aired. This is
3035
02:43:16.639 --> 02:43:20.360
season one, episode 84. Holy shit. How about a new season, guys?
3036
02:43:21.979 --> 02:43:26.360
How Tammy Duvall Killed Her Husband Slash Placerville Dead Husband.
3037
02:43:26.829 --> 02:43:30.559
slash suzy bigamist that's the name of the thing they
3038
02:43:30.590 --> 02:43:32.280
don't have suzy bigamist.
3039
02:43:32.399 --> 02:43:35.620
They don't have enough episodes are they doing every 12
3040
02:43:35.620 --> 02:43:37.559
minutes a new a new episode.
3041
02:43:37.280 --> 02:43:41.049
I have no clue a murder in 12 minutes crime
3042
02:43:41.090 --> 02:43:44.969
watch daily with chris hansen he's like i'll do your
3043
02:43:44.989 --> 02:43:46.909
murder i'll find out if you're a pedophile i'll get
3044
02:43:46.930 --> 02:43:49.590
it all done in 12 minutes We'll wrap it up
3045
02:43:49.629 --> 02:43:53.690
in 12 minutes. Susie Bigamist. Susie Bigamist. There was a
3046
02:43:53.809 --> 02:43:55.709
book here that, I mean, we went through it, but
3047
02:43:55.729 --> 02:43:58.379
it was mainly just the same shit from the court documents.
3048
02:43:58.399 --> 02:44:00.579
There wasn't a whole lot of big revelations, but there
3049
02:44:00.600 --> 02:44:02.500
might have been a couple of lines I got that
3050
02:44:02.620 --> 02:44:04.079
only were in there, so I might as well give
3051
02:44:04.120 --> 02:44:07.850
it out. Tammy Duvall, Husband Killer is the name of it.
3052
02:44:09.120 --> 02:44:11.219
Right on the nose. Nailed it. Right on the nose
3053
02:44:11.299 --> 02:44:15.090
by Jesse Dillard. Jesse with an I. So, yeah. So
3054
02:44:15.129 --> 02:44:19.420
there you go, everybody. There is Columbus, Indiana. And just
3055
02:44:19.479 --> 02:44:22.299
some crazy shit. What is wrong with people? It's unbelievable.
3056
02:44:23.899 --> 02:44:26.889
The more I hear about this stuff, too, like we
3057
02:44:27.069 --> 02:44:30.309
all like people give us food all the time. Yeah.
3058
02:44:31.110 --> 02:44:33.969
People we know. Oh, yeah. You go to people's houses.
3059
02:44:34.149 --> 02:44:37.079
We show up to clubs and people bring us fresh
3060
02:44:37.139 --> 02:44:37.860
baked cookies.
3061
02:44:38.120 --> 02:44:40.500
All the time. And we eat them. And we fucking
3062
02:44:40.559 --> 02:44:42.940
eat them. We are morons. We eat them and we
3063
02:44:42.979 --> 02:44:44.079
don't even think twice about it.
3064
02:44:44.079 --> 02:44:45.399
We're absolute idiots.
3065
02:44:45.739 --> 02:44:47.440
We smell it and we go, that looks great. That
3066
02:44:47.479 --> 02:44:49.049
smells great. And we start eating shit.
3067
02:44:49.229 --> 02:44:51.389
I bring them home. I put them in my bag.
3068
02:44:51.750 --> 02:44:53.590
Put them on a plane with me. Get them home
3069
02:44:53.649 --> 02:44:54.850
and throw them at my kids.
3070
02:44:55.709 --> 02:44:58.649
Here kids, eat this. You want to test this out?
3071
02:44:58.670 --> 02:45:00.469
I haven't tried it yet. It's my face.
3072
02:45:00.610 --> 02:45:02.610
Somebody made that.
3073
02:45:02.649 --> 02:45:06.569
Think about like DoorDash. That's a stranger. That is horrifying.
3074
02:45:06.590 --> 02:45:09.290
Bringing your food or fucking Uber Eats. Yeah.
3075
02:45:10.430 --> 02:45:15.459
The amount of hands between your mouth and that cheeseburger's beginning.
3076
02:45:16.040 --> 02:45:16.360
It's like 11.
3077
02:45:16.340 --> 02:45:16.819
Yeah.
3078
02:45:18.620 --> 02:45:20.360
I mean, and they've always had food delivery, but it
3079
02:45:20.399 --> 02:45:24.059
was someone who worked for the restaurant that hasn't poisoned
3080
02:45:24.120 --> 02:45:26.139
anybody in the millions of deliveries they made. I don't
3081
02:45:26.159 --> 02:45:29.659
know if this person's. Who knows? We are very trusting.
3082
02:45:30.319 --> 02:45:32.780
We're very trusting, all of us with our food. And
3083
02:45:32.840 --> 02:45:34.409
I think about that all the time. And I think
3084
02:45:34.569 --> 02:45:37.290
to myself, I get ridiculous thoughts because I'm like, is
3085
02:45:37.350 --> 02:45:39.690
Sarah going to poison me? And then I'm like, no,
3086
02:45:39.729 --> 02:45:43.409
I don't think so. She doesn't seem like the poisoning type.
3087
02:45:43.790 --> 02:45:45.870
And she loves food, so I feel like she wouldn't
3088
02:45:45.889 --> 02:45:48.729
want to make food taste shitty. So she wouldn't want
3089
02:45:48.770 --> 02:45:49.969
to do it. So she'd be like, I would make
3090
02:45:50.030 --> 02:45:51.579
it taste bad. I'll find another way to kill it.
3091
02:45:51.639 --> 02:45:54.180
I'd feel bad to ruin a steak with poison.
3092
02:45:54.260 --> 02:45:58.409
I really would. I would too. Yeah. Yeah. especially those
3093
02:45:58.450 --> 02:46:00.750
first couple bites, you know, before they just keel over
3094
02:46:00.829 --> 02:46:03.870
and die. They're going to be like, you suck at cooking. Yeah.
3095
02:46:03.889 --> 02:46:05.629
They're going to think your food sucks and you're going
3096
02:46:05.649 --> 02:46:07.889
to have to live with that. And then they drop dead.
3097
02:46:07.930 --> 02:46:08.489
That's not cool.
3098
02:46:08.510 --> 02:46:10.729
Their last thought on earth is, boy, Jimmy makes a
3099
02:46:10.829 --> 02:46:11.530
shit steak.
3100
02:46:11.729 --> 02:46:15.549
No, I don't. Jimmy doesn't season this for, put some
3101
02:46:15.610 --> 02:46:17.950
bullshit on this. What do you put on this? Crushed
3102
02:46:18.010 --> 02:46:19.469
up aspirin? This tastes like shit.
3103
02:46:20.819 --> 02:46:24.559
Would you soak this in Listerine?
3104
02:46:24.639 --> 02:46:30.069
It's terrible. This is terrible. Peak, too. That's the important part.
3105
02:46:31.450 --> 02:46:33.409
Don't stop short of the peak, Jimmy. You know how
3106
02:46:33.430 --> 02:46:39.850
it works. Holy shit. So there you go. There's Columbus, Indiana. Unreal.
3107
02:46:40.149 --> 02:46:43.389
A goddamn crazy episode and crazy people doing crazy things.
3108
02:46:45.100 --> 02:46:47.159
Alan seemed like a party. He seemed like a fun guy.
3109
02:46:47.340 --> 02:46:48.059
Really, yeah.
3110
02:46:48.280 --> 02:46:50.200
Seemed like a guy you wouldn't mind hanging out with.
3111
02:46:50.239 --> 02:46:51.200
Seemed like a cool dude.
3112
02:46:51.540 --> 02:46:53.920
Not a dude to kill over 100 grand, that's for sure.
3113
02:46:53.940 --> 02:46:56.659
No, give me a fucking break. Come on, man.
3114
02:46:56.739 --> 02:46:59.200
I'd rather get in a $ 100, 000 Corvette with him with
3115
02:46:59.239 --> 02:47:02.469
a spare koozie and move on down the road.
3116
02:47:02.489 --> 02:47:05.229
You got an extra koozie? Sure do, buddy. And then
3117
02:47:05.270 --> 02:47:12.280
you guys pull off together. You're Thelman Louise. Thelma and
3118
02:47:12.319 --> 02:47:17.030
Koozie over here. Open those T-tops, Al. It's T-top time, baby.
3119
02:47:17.049 --> 02:47:17.610
Let's do it.
3120
02:47:19.479 --> 02:47:22.719
So if you like this story tell everyone you know
3121
02:47:22.799 --> 02:47:25.520
about it and also tell the internet get on whatever
3122
02:47:25.639 --> 02:47:27.950
app you are on and whatever app you listen on
3123
02:47:28.010 --> 02:47:30.530
and give us five stars and if you're watching on
3124
02:47:30.569 --> 02:47:32.829
Netflix grab pull up one of these apps and give
3125
02:47:32.889 --> 02:47:34.790
us five stars who cares you can do it you
3126
02:47:34.829 --> 02:47:37.370
have a podcast app and tell Netflix you'll love it
3127
02:47:37.409 --> 02:47:39.170
too yeah the more you tell them the better so
3128
02:47:39.879 --> 02:47:42.959
Do that. Keep coming back and listening over and over again.
3129
02:47:43.479 --> 02:47:48.079
Head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Tickets for live shows are there
3130
02:47:48.100 --> 02:47:50.629
as well as all of our merchandise, anything you can
3131
02:47:50.670 --> 02:47:54.030
think of from skateboards to coffee mugs to shower curtains,
3132
02:47:54.069 --> 02:47:57.129
we have it. And also live shows. Get your tickets
3133
02:47:57.190 --> 02:48:00.370
right now. Next date with tickets available because May 1st
3134
02:48:00.409 --> 02:48:03.500
in Salt Lake City is sold out. May 2nd in
3135
02:48:03.559 --> 02:48:05.520
Denver has a few tickets left, so you can get
3136
02:48:05.559 --> 02:48:08.430
in there and get those. May 29th, Buffalo sold out,
3137
02:48:08.489 --> 02:48:12.530
but Royal Oak, Michigan, May 30th, is not sold out.
3138
02:48:12.670 --> 02:48:14.670
Few tickets, and I mean a few left for that one.
3139
02:48:14.829 --> 02:48:17.049
It's so sparse. Yeah, you better hurry. Get them right now.
3140
02:48:17.250 --> 02:48:21.069
Get in there right now. Then after the summer, September 18th, Milwaukee,
3141
02:48:21.090 --> 02:48:27.389
September 19th, Minneapolis, October 3rd, Dallas, October 16th, San Jose, California,
3142
02:48:27.750 --> 02:48:33.690
October 17th, Sacramento, California. uh, um, November 11th, Tarrytown, New York,
3143
02:48:33.750 --> 02:48:38.209
the Tarrytown music hall, beautiful, cool old venue, really nice place.
3144
02:48:38.770 --> 02:48:42.370
It just feels like comedy in there. It's good. And then, uh,
3145
02:48:42.409 --> 02:48:45.920
the 14th of November in Boston, also at the Chevalier,
3146
02:48:45.940 --> 02:48:48.840
which is also a great theater, um, real cool place
3147
02:48:48.860 --> 02:48:50.420
there too. So come out and see us. And it's
3148
02:48:50.440 --> 02:48:52.819
not like in the traffic-y part of Boston. it's up
3149
02:48:52.879 --> 02:48:54.899
in Medford. It's in the outskirts. So yeah, it's great.
3150
02:48:54.920 --> 02:48:56.680
It's in Medford. So if you're like, ugh, I don't
3151
02:48:56.700 --> 02:48:58.079
want to drive in there. You don't have to. We
3152
02:48:58.100 --> 02:49:00.670
can go around it. And, uh, We can avoid all
3153
02:49:00.690 --> 02:49:02.649
those loops and circles and shit that they have there.
3154
02:49:03.090 --> 02:49:05.670
So come out and see us there. We cannot wait
3155
02:49:05.690 --> 02:49:10.239
to see you guys. That's shutupandgivememurder.com. You also want to
3156
02:49:10.280 --> 02:49:13.020
follow us on social media, at Small Town Murder on
3157
02:49:13.079 --> 02:49:17.569
Instagram and Small Town Pod on Facebook. Then get yourself Patreon. Yes.
3158
02:49:18.500 --> 02:49:21.250
What are you doing? Be a part of it. Our Patreon,
3159
02:49:21.290 --> 02:49:23.850
we're very proud of it. $ 5 a month or above.
3160
02:49:24.090 --> 02:49:26.090
You can put whatever you want. But anybody $ 5 a
3161
02:49:26.209 --> 02:49:27.629
month or above. And we're not raising it.
3162
02:49:27.809 --> 02:49:27.969
No.
3163
02:49:27.989 --> 02:49:30.360
We're not. Anything else can be as expensive as it
3164
02:49:30.399 --> 02:49:33.670
wants to be. Our Patreon is $ 5, period. We don't
3165
02:49:33.680 --> 02:49:36.489
want to price people out of it. We just don't.
3166
02:49:36.709 --> 02:49:38.469
We've been told by so many, you can make more money.
3167
02:49:38.829 --> 02:49:41.270
We don't care. We're not pricing people out of this.
3168
02:49:41.350 --> 02:49:42.750
We want them to enjoy it and we want them
3169
02:49:42.770 --> 02:49:45.629
to like it. So anybody $ 5 a month or above,
3170
02:49:45.670 --> 02:49:47.489
and if you want to throw more in, feel free.
3171
02:49:47.530 --> 02:49:50.209
Go ahead. But you're going to get everything that we
3172
02:49:50.250 --> 02:49:53.409
put out, including as soon as you subscribe, hundreds of
3173
02:49:53.469 --> 02:49:57.549
back bonus episodes, over 300, between 300 and 400. There's
3174
02:49:57.590 --> 02:50:00.989
a shitload of them there. As many episodes as that
3175
02:50:01.049 --> 02:50:03.930
lady had Flexerol pills in the bottle. Tons of them.
3176
02:50:05.709 --> 02:50:08.049
And anybody $ 5 a month or above, you get everything.
3177
02:50:08.069 --> 02:50:10.079
You get those subscriptions as soon as you get it.
3178
02:50:10.139 --> 02:50:12.659
Then new ones every other week. One crime in sports
3179
02:50:12.739 --> 02:50:15.620
and one small-town murder. This week is no different. For
3180
02:50:15.659 --> 02:50:17.860
crime in sports, we're going to talk about, I believe
3181
02:50:17.899 --> 02:50:21.690
it's pronounced the Ecclesia Athletic Association. Sure. I'll take it.
3182
02:50:21.750 --> 02:50:25.010
This was– that sounds good to me. This was an
3183
02:50:25.069 --> 02:50:28.579
organization to keep inner city youth off the streets and
3184
02:50:28.620 --> 02:50:30.959
help them with sports and things like that. And, of course,
3185
02:50:31.020 --> 02:50:35.340
it turned into a disgusting mess of horribleness. Then for
3186
02:50:35.379 --> 02:50:38.420
small town murder, part two of Corey Richens, the most
3187
02:50:38.500 --> 02:50:41.350
fascinating case I've ever heard in my life. And I've
3188
02:50:41.389 --> 02:50:43.290
watched the whole trial and we're right in the middle
3189
02:50:43.350 --> 02:50:46.010
of it. And it's a lot. Bad mom, bad mom.
3190
02:50:46.190 --> 02:50:47.450
Checked out. Yeah. Bad life.
3191
02:50:47.469 --> 02:50:47.549
Yeah.
3192
02:50:48.500 --> 02:50:51.909
Bad wife, bad mom, bad person. And if you're on
3193
02:50:51.940 --> 02:50:55.489
the fence about checking this out, read the comments from
3194
02:50:55.520 --> 02:50:58.370
Patreon about how much people love this episode because they
3195
02:50:58.409 --> 02:51:00.450
loved it. And we're going to give you more. They
3196
02:51:00.489 --> 02:51:01.790
loved it. They're going to give you more. We're going
3197
02:51:01.809 --> 02:51:03.510
to give you more this week, the trials and even
3198
02:51:03.549 --> 02:51:06.690
bigger spectacles. That's going to be awesome. Can't wait to
3199
02:51:06.729 --> 02:51:11.510
do that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you
3200
02:51:11.530 --> 02:51:14.020
get all that. And You get everything we put out.
3201
02:51:14.340 --> 02:51:17.649
Crime and sports, your stupid opinions, and small-town murder all
3202
02:51:17.750 --> 02:51:20.649
ad-free with your Patreon as well. And you get a
3203
02:51:20.690 --> 02:51:22.510
shout-out at the end of the show, which is right
3204
02:51:22.569 --> 02:51:25.510
goddamn now, Jimmy. Do me a favor and hit me
3205
02:51:25.549 --> 02:51:27.389
with the names of the most wonderful people in the
3206
02:51:27.430 --> 02:51:29.889
world whose cookies we can trust to not be full
3207
02:51:29.909 --> 02:51:33.549
of poison. Jimmy, hit me with them right fucking now.
3208
02:51:33.989 --> 02:51:37.239
This is executive producer Gary Howard and Gary Indiana James.
3209
02:51:37.600 --> 02:51:38.899
Gary and Gary.
3210
02:51:39.719 --> 02:51:41.760
Happy hours in Buffalo, Texas.
3211
02:51:42.340 --> 02:51:47.440
Buffalo, Texas. Still get the lake effect down there, I
3212
02:51:47.479 --> 02:51:47.889
feel like.
3213
02:51:49.530 --> 02:51:52.930
Exact Tax Solutions also. Hey, it's that time of year, guys.
3214
02:51:53.479 --> 02:51:57.079
Your tax needs this time of year. That's a bitch.
3215
02:51:57.719 --> 02:52:00.930
Amy and Danny in Denver. I'll see you guys soon.
3216
02:52:01.809 --> 02:52:04.219
Matthew Benitez. Thank you very much.
3217
02:52:04.280 --> 02:52:04.629
Mel B.
3218
02:52:05.420 --> 02:52:10.569
Not that one. Shelly McGlone. And Sarah in Texas. Happy birthday, Sarah.
3219
02:52:10.610 --> 02:52:11.250
What a big day.
3220
02:52:11.389 --> 02:52:14.989
Happy birthday, Sarah in Texas. Other producers this week are
3221
02:52:15.030 --> 02:52:18.459
Peyton Meadows, Ryan Bender, Janice Hill, Ashley with no last name,
3222
02:52:18.500 --> 02:52:24.819
Candice Yashaz, Rhea with no H, Heather Ott, Bailey Reynolds,
3223
02:52:24.940 --> 02:52:28.450
Sean with no last name, Connor Morgan, Kenneth Marks.
3224
02:52:29.459 --> 02:52:33.620
C-H-O-N, I think. Oh, not Tron or Chong. Never mind. No,
3225
02:52:33.879 --> 02:52:38.469
it could even be an autocorrect. I don't know if
3226
02:52:38.530 --> 02:52:41.850
I really wrote that. Who knows? Either way, sorry, Chong,
3227
02:52:42.010 --> 02:52:42.649
I guess. Yeah.
3228
02:52:43.250 --> 02:52:48.959
Kenneth Mark, Sarah Carlin Stearns, Kimberly Bowman, Toaster Bath.
3229
02:52:49.649 --> 02:52:50.309
Sounds lovely.
3230
02:52:50.569 --> 02:52:57.000
Esther Cruz. Ari with no last name. Jenna Gooley. Jenny B.
3231
02:52:57.079 --> 02:53:02.920
Jasmine Montanez. Jason Gajan. Savannah Hill.
3232
02:53:03.500 --> 02:53:07.680
Annie. Jesus. You're all off there on that one.
3233
02:53:07.840 --> 02:53:09.159
Annie with no last name.
3234
02:53:09.200 --> 02:53:10.430
Annie brought out the coffin on him.
3235
02:53:11.059 --> 02:53:18.969
Rossrow, Elise Miller, Henry Williams, Maggie May, Clara Absalanova, Dee
3236
02:53:19.010 --> 02:53:23.850
with no last name, Diana Wynn, Rich Koger, Ram 107, Megan,
3237
02:53:24.250 --> 02:53:32.329
Deshawn Runge, Chris Sager, Glenn Skarbaka, Anne-Marie McCormick, 124 Pomegranates.
3238
02:53:34.479 --> 02:53:37.239
I don't know if that's an address.
3239
02:53:36.559 --> 02:53:40.049
Or if they just don't do threes around there. Sean McGuire,
3240
02:53:40.409 --> 02:53:46.969
Naomi S., Alexis Waugh, Justin Collins, Nina Allen, Ben with
3241
02:53:47.030 --> 02:53:50.500
no last name, Christian with no last name, Justin McElroy,
3242
02:53:50.850 --> 02:53:55.030
Kate R., Anthony Sheridan, Loose End. Oh, I got it.
3243
02:53:55.299 --> 02:53:56.239
I see it there now.
3244
02:53:57.059 --> 02:53:58.840
L-U-C-E, End, James.
3245
02:53:59.399 --> 02:54:00.520
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
3246
02:54:00.680 --> 02:54:02.379
Teresa SCH.
3247
02:54:02.780 --> 02:54:03.659
School? Sha?
3248
02:54:04.280 --> 02:54:09.000
I don't know. Nocturne. Rich with no last name. Anne-Marie Hefty.
3249
02:54:09.020 --> 02:54:12.469
That's a lot of Anne-Maries. Has there been three? Keaton Reyer.
3250
02:54:12.510 --> 02:54:13.049
Reyer?
3251
02:54:13.370 --> 02:54:14.049
Reher.
3252
02:54:14.270 --> 02:54:17.709
The most Anne-Maries in all of podcasting we have. Anne-Marie.
3253
02:54:18.309 --> 02:54:21.350
Yeah, like the, there's a song, there's a country song
3254
02:54:21.389 --> 02:54:22.110
called Anna Marie.
3255
02:54:22.430 --> 02:54:23.770
I don't know it. You can Google it.
3256
02:54:23.819 --> 02:54:28.659
Frankie McDonough, Zachary Moffat, AEV, is that Ave or Av?
3257
02:54:28.860 --> 02:54:29.299
I don't know.
3258
02:54:29.360 --> 02:54:34.750
Briggy Smalls, Trisha Olsen, Jennifer Coleman Vargo, Ben Newsome, Tabitha
3259
02:54:34.770 --> 02:54:38.270
would know the last name. Melanie Deaton. Parker Manning. D-Dub.
3260
02:54:38.709 --> 02:54:42.790
Chris Eagley. Ashley would know the last name. Isabella Hall.
3261
02:54:43.129 --> 02:54:44.930
Jeff would know the last name. Charo would know the
3262
02:54:44.950 --> 02:54:50.829
last name. Garrett Albright. Liz Clark. George Stish. Samantha Hoffman.
3263
02:54:50.889 --> 02:54:52.770
Krista Martin. Debbie Glazer.
3264
02:54:52.790 --> 02:54:53.590
Matt Ramos.
3265
02:54:53.670 --> 02:54:54.469
Kelly Gordon.
3266
02:54:54.510 --> 02:54:59.079
Tyler Moore. Janann. Gianann. Janann. Hostin.
3267
02:54:59.120 --> 02:55:00.899
Hostin. Matus Banach.
3268
02:55:01.520 --> 02:55:01.819
What is that?
3269
02:55:02.870 --> 02:55:04.850
Mattoos Benach is a name.
3270
02:55:05.309 --> 02:55:06.110
Benach.
3271
02:55:06.690 --> 02:55:09.979
Ben Newsome. Was there a Ben Newsome already?
3272
02:55:10.059 --> 02:55:10.799
I don't know.
3273
02:55:10.819 --> 02:55:14.020
I don't know. Colby Hoff. John Thomas.
3274
02:55:14.100 --> 02:55:18.059
Gab with no last name. Emily Young. Elizabeth Brandon. Killian.
3275
02:55:18.299 --> 02:55:18.780
Killian.
3276
02:55:18.899 --> 02:55:20.040
Killian. Hubbell.
3277
02:55:20.139 --> 02:55:23.889
Hubbell. Chrissy Brown. Quinn Richens.
3278
02:55:24.090 --> 02:55:25.030
Are you related?
3279
02:55:25.129 --> 02:55:25.610
Kim Reese.
3280
02:55:25.629 --> 02:55:25.969
I don't know.
3281
02:55:26.809 --> 02:55:30.489
Kwong Kwongt Farm Crew. Kwong Kwongt.
3282
02:55:31.709 --> 02:55:35.510
Quant Farm Crew. Wow. The Quant Quant. All right. Say
3283
02:55:35.549 --> 02:55:36.370
that 10 times.
3284
02:55:36.950 --> 02:55:42.850
I can't say it one time. Greg Shushart. Jordan Butler. Dara.
3285
02:55:42.950 --> 02:55:44.950
Drew Evitz. Everts. Everits.
3286
02:55:45.370 --> 02:55:51.229
Nicole Satka. Yasmeen White. Heavy Cream. The Fat Housewife. What
3287
02:55:51.250 --> 02:55:53.909
does that mean? Beach Gerloff.
3288
02:55:54.469 --> 02:55:57.110
I don't even want to chance it. Nina with no
3289
02:55:57.149 --> 02:55:57.629
last name.
3290
02:55:57.670 --> 02:56:02.149
Gianna. Gianna Kefalis. Celeste Blythe. Bev with no last name.
3291
02:56:02.170 --> 02:56:06.040
Melissa with no last name. Vicky Rose. Tim Endlich. Rachel
3292
02:56:06.059 --> 02:56:06.979
with no last name.
3293
02:56:07.879 --> 02:56:08.959
What is this? Rachel.
3294
02:56:09.120 --> 02:56:13.000
All right. Elizabeth Peters. Stefani with no last name. That's
3295
02:56:13.040 --> 02:56:15.190
probably Stephanie. Jaycock. Yeah.
3296
02:56:15.209 --> 02:56:15.930
Stefani. Maybe.
3297
02:56:16.010 --> 02:56:20.510
Maybe. It's spelled like Glenn. I don't know.
3298
02:56:20.610 --> 02:56:22.489
Jake Koch. Jake Koch.
3299
02:56:23.110 --> 02:56:24.190
Joke Jakech.
3300
02:56:24.549 --> 02:56:26.639
Frisch. Lori H.
3301
02:56:26.739 --> 02:56:33.319
Denbina. Cheryl Cushing Oman. Matt Marshall. Christina Croke. Austin Winokur.
3302
02:56:34.180 --> 02:56:42.340
Karen Miller. Dominique D'Alessandro. D'Alessandro. Elena Dick. That's with a Y.
3303
02:56:42.600 --> 02:56:49.940
Audrey Baroque, Barack Baroque, Robert Bjorn, Hannah Crossland, Tracy Fisher,
3304
02:56:50.049 --> 02:56:55.790
Daryl Baranowski, Nicole Winola, his name, Joey Benefiel, Hope Gatto,
3305
02:56:55.870 --> 02:56:57.670
Melvin Christ, and all of our patrons.
3306
02:56:57.690 --> 02:57:00.030
You guys are the best. Thank you so much, everybody,
3307
02:57:00.049 --> 02:57:02.309
for all that you do for us. Honestly, you guys
3308
02:57:02.350 --> 02:57:05.329
are incredible. We can't do any of this without you. Well, honestly,
3309
02:57:05.569 --> 02:57:07.989
we probably could, but it would be really pointless. And boring.
3310
02:57:08.549 --> 02:57:10.450
And boring because we'd do it and then put it
3311
02:57:10.530 --> 02:57:11.889
out and there'd be nobody to listen to it. It'd
3312
02:57:11.909 --> 02:57:14.319
just be us talking about it. That's so stupid. We'd
3313
02:57:14.350 --> 02:57:15.930
be better off just talking on the phone at that
3314
02:57:16.000 --> 02:57:18.799
point rather than flying across the country to be in
3315
02:57:18.840 --> 02:57:21.020
each other's presence to film all the time. That would
3316
02:57:21.059 --> 02:57:23.909
be much easier. Yeah. Thank you for doing that. Thank
3317
02:57:23.930 --> 02:57:25.409
you for hanging out with us. You want to follow
3318
02:57:25.469 --> 02:57:27.799
us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com
3319
02:57:27.840 --> 02:57:30.379
as drop down menus. Take you wherever you need to go.
3320
02:57:30.700 --> 02:57:33.879
Keep coming back week after week. And until next week, everybody,
3321
02:57:34.260 --> 02:57:35.100
it's been our pleasure.
3322
02:57:35.299 --> 02:57:36.579
Bye.
3323
02:57:53.010 --> 02:57:53.420
Thank you.