WEBVTT
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Hey, small business heroes.
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It's your host, Gloria Chao.
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Today's conversation is gonna be very different, so buckle up.
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Usually, on this podcast, we talk about PR, marketing, AI visibility.
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Today is none of those things, today I'm gonna talk about something that you might have heard me speak about before, something very relevant and deep in my own personal journey that I've shared.
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It was fundamental to how I healed my relationship with my mom, how I peeled the layers of the scarcity, the fear, the trauma I was carrying.
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And the topic we will be talking about is healing through psychedelics.
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Now, I wanna be clear, I am not a medical professional, neither is my guest.
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This is not to motivate, initiate anyone to do any kind of psychedelic plant medicines.
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This is purely just a reflection on our exploration that we have done under supervised guidance in a safe space, and in no means is this telling anyone that they should apply this to your own journey.
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It's just merely a reflection of ours that maybe will be able to connect to some part of your journey.
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Welcome to the show, Kunle Campbell.
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He is my friend.
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He's based in the UK.
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He is a e-commerce coach in the, consumer space, and I actually interviewed him a year or two ago purely about, e-commerce.
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But today is something very different because we actually chatted about his journey with healing and psychedelics and the profound impact that it had on his life.
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And I think there's some nuance here because a lot of times when we talk about psychedelics, who gets to experience them?
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It's not main- it's not people like Kunle.
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It's not a Black man, It's not, an Asian woman.
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So I think there's some particular nuance when people of color get together and talk about what it means and for a long time it has been, commodified, consumerized by Western cultures when it's non-Western cultures that have carried, the legacy, the history, of these sacred plant medicines.
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So I just wanted to put that there before.
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So welcome to the show.
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Are you ready to get into this conversation?
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Absolutely,
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Gloria.
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Thank you for the intro.
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I appreciate you and it's always good to, to connect.
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always good to connect, and I'm looking forward to, just seeding a message with your audience.
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as we said, it's not necessarily an initiation, it's more just sharing my journey.
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as entrepreneurs, one of the greatest freedoms and blessings we have is that we don't get to necessarily separate our life from our business, right?
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Like our traumas, our insecurities will play out.
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So for me, psychedelics was really fundamental to, to seeing that, those sides of me.
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It's another mirror of reflection.
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Michael Pollan, who wrote the book,"Your Mind on Plants," he said that imagine your brain like grooves of snow, and you're always constantly sliding down those same grooves with a snow sled.
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But after a while, just gets used to those grooves, and what psychedelic plant medicine does, it puts a new layer of snow so that next time you can slide down new neural pathways.
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So I wanna hear from you, what are psychedelic plant medicines to you?
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What have they done?
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What is it, what are they a catalyst for?
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Let me give you a precursor.
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So I was speaking to an old friend of mine yesterday.
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We went out to the woods.
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it was Easter Monday.
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Here in the UK, you're allowed, it's also a bank holiday, quote-unquote,"Easter Monday." And we went out to the woods, and we were essentially just catching up.
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I hadn't seen him or spoken to him in five years, and life had happened, in both our lives.
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And, he'd gone down a different journey.
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He's in a men's circle.
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he's of Nigerian descent like myself.
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And the interesting thing is that he's been in this men's circle for 10 years, and I got into psychedelics a year ago, and the funny thing and interesting thing is we spoke the same language, right?
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what I took from that yesterday was all of that integration work, self-awareness work, and all of that 10 years of self-awareness work can happen fairly quickly if you do the work with psychedelics, right?
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and quite interestingly, he had a major life event in his life which put him in shame, guilt, anger, hate for himself that led him to the men's circle.
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And it was similar to me, life event, shame, guilt, anger.
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And our consensus was that whatever will heal you will call you.
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So whether it's a, a men's circle, a women's circle, don't know, psychedelics, when the time is right, life would so happen for you that you'd be like This is my calling.
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This is what I need to do.
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and that's my take on the whole journey thus far.
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it's, it has been life, completely life-changing, but I needed to break, like really break to say,"You know what?
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I'm not going down the usual drink and drugs route.
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I want to heal." And some people get down there too.
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I had an option to, to self-destruct or self-construct, and I built on that journey and, yeah, it's sometimes in the journeys you, you're like,"What the am I doing here?
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how did I get here?
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How did this even happen?" But, it's been absolutely rewarding and, I, I couldn't have, had it any other way.
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I love what you said about the other route because a lot of people do when they think about psychedelics, right, they put it in the classification as drugs.
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alcohol is a drug and I think there's a difference between taking drugs to escape, which a lot of people do with alcohol, right?
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Sugar, shopping, sex- Yeah porn, all of that, and psychedelic plant medicine.
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And I think what we're talking about here is a very intentional therapeutic guided exploration of our internal landscape, right?
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it's not for- Yeah the faint of heart.
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It's not like,"Oh, I'm just gonna take some mushrooms today." It's not fun.
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You are exploring dark night of the soul stuff.
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so you talked about, all the other things.
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for me, First of all, everyone's journey is different, right?
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I don't want people to take away from it.
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It's like,"Oh, I need to heal.
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I'm just gonna shove a bunch of mushrooms in my mouth." it's not that.
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It's not like a silver bullet.
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What it does, it reveals different parts of you.
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It gives you information, often felt somatically, in the body that allows you to then deduct, make, use of that information.
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But it's not going to just you're gonna wake up and heal, so I just wanna be clear about that, right?
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It's not...
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but what you're saying is it can be a faster path than purely talk therapy.
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at least for me, I had to feel my mother's grief viscerally in my bones to then open up compassion for her that I felt.
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Yeah so for you, describe what that feels like,'cause I think a lot of people are-- We as humans, we're really good at rationalizing things in the brain.
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Oh,
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yeah.
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But trauma is- Yeah lived in the body, right?
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So how was that process for you?
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I took some notes.
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I journeyed...
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for me, it's an introspection, to self The set and setting is incredibly important.
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you need to be in the right setting.
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You need to have the right guides to help you.
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And my first foray into psychedelics properly was sitting in a psilocybin ceremony.
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It was very traditional.
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it was all men, apart from the Reiki healer.
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For those who don't know what Reiki is, they're like energy healers, that work energetically, who was there, who was female.
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And, for me, my entire view, worldview on masculinity was challenged there.
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I'd always thought that, being masculine was all about force, power, taking it, just always holding it in.
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And, that day I got the, still the strongest ever hug.
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I got a hug from the Reiki healer.
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she hugged me forward and then her husband hugged me behind, because I broke down.
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I completely broke down because, every notion, many first principle notions I had developed over the years were challenged in, in, in my spirit's mind.
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And, they reassured me and they quickly diagnosed me, and they're like,"My heart's chakra," if you're into chakras, was out of sync," and they were completely right.
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I did not feel loved, and I didn't love myself, and that was a huge pain to come to, to play to me on the surface.
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So that realization was the beginning, and I knew I had to do a lot of work to start to love myself.
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I thought masculinity was more about resistance when it is all about surrender.
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So that day, the medicines really humbled me to, create that awareness of what surrender was.
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and so I took on that understanding into other journeys, and when I surrendered, it would show me another thing, that journey to self-love is still ongoing it's always a conversation, you're having.
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It's a feeling, that rather, and just as certain settings are very important in a ceremonial setting or perspective, your certain settings every day is very important.
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If you have, people who tell you're no good on a regular basis, you're human, of course Some of it will come through.
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it's a matter of essentially changing your settings if you can.
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and you deserve to be loved.
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that's the key message.
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You really deserve to be loved, and this applies, this a universal, it's universal to anybody.
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I don't care wherever you are on your journey, you deserve love.
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Yeah.
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and you deserve, and once you deserve the love, you deserve to express love.
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and that's what all this is about.
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it's about journeying and s- just seeing love from all aspects, from all angles, and knowing that we are sacred, unique beings brought in.
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We have a lineage.
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I'd thought about my grandparents, my ancestors, and a lot of the time with modern life, we lose that connection to our ancestors.
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if you really think about what they had to bear for us to come through, it is our power.
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So the most external internal thing you can lean to is your bloodline, your ancestors, and the traumas they've carried and how you're healing from them as against anything external.
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I've come to terms with all of that.
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and so what the medicines have also shown me is the people after me.
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So if you have children, how are you turning up for the children?
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How have you turned up for your children in the past?
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I think it's the most honest way to come to terms with yourself.
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even sometimes I'm anxious to, once it's, to go into, a ceremony because I know, certain truths which are hard to take will come out, and it's left to you to accept, to surrender.
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Surrender is always the thing.
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and then, after that, it's left to you to integrate those truths.
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So for me, it's a journey of truths, yeah, I can go into more detail if you want me to, but, just at a top level, I think that's what, this is all about.
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Yeah.
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Your energy is very different.
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you have so much spaciousness.
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you speak slower, you're more grounded.
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I noticed one thing for me is, the nervous system recalibration.
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So first of all, just retract a little bit.
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When you said set and setting, what you mean by is mindset and setting, right?
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You don't want to obviously do this when you are in a deep internal conflict and you don't feel safe.
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It's better to have some kind of clarity, and that doesn't mean that you need clarity on your entire life, but not be in a state of distress, because obviously it can amplify that.
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So that's really what you mean by set and setting.
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So right mindset and the right setting.
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Do you have guides?
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Do you have facilitators?
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Do you have, people that can help you integrate?
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Because what can happen is after that, you go back into the real world, you're plugged and unplugged and you feel very jarring.
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So that's what you mean by that.
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I wanna talk about, the fact that we don't know what we come here with, A lot of times we think it's a blank slate, but we're actually carrying so much of our ancestors' stuff, so much of our parents' stuff, whether or not we'd like to admit it or not.
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my father died when I was three, so I don't really know him, but I know I represent so much of him.
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so that and the lineage of our ancestors who were either enslaved or in oppression, who were, my ancestors not ancestors, but literally, my mother was sewing shoes in a factory, living in communism.
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And so that scarcity, no matter how much money she made or where she was, she never felt safe.
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She always felt like she had to take care of everybody, right?
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'Cause she had no running water or electricity in her house.
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And that, that gets passed down to us, and we don't really acknowledge it.
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So we go through life doing what we're doing, but not knowing that we're constantly projecting what the stories that we already carried.
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And our life is always a reflection of us.
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So if it doesn't go well or if we're not able to receive love, we can't give love, our relationships are lacking, it's because we don't have that within us.
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So I love what you said, that it's really about surrendering.
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And I think a lot of people think masculinity is, like you said, resisting or I li- as I like to say, living with a clenched butt cheek.
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holding on.
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We wanna hold on.
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And so everything is about amassing wealth, your hierarchical power, your title.
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but surrender is something that I realized too, because only through surrender and letting go do you realize that are unlimited vessels of love.
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we are love.
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We are here to express love in all its creations.
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So can you talk to me a little bit about being a West African Black man, in society and obviously masculinity?
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Because I think we can all agree that, there's so many podcasts about this, that masculinity is at a very perilous juncture, That there's a lot.
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If you look at school shootings, if you look at violence, that men are trying to find their place in society because now women are out-earning and out-educating them, And so they're what are we here for?" So there's a lot.
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So can you talk about that from your own experience and how that has changed you as you dealt with masculinity and the way that you-- masculine people should behave?
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That's a double barrel question.
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that's a massive question.
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Where do I start?
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Okay, so as a West African, as a Nigerian man, generally culture, it starts with culture.
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it starts with the definition of masculinity and culture, and masculinity and culture from my culture is wealth.
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my culture is very materialistic and I think it's because of the state of poverty, the level of poverty.
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So that hero story of nothing to something.
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so in my country or where I come from, I'm now British.
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I've lived in Britain for 21 years, but I'm Nigerian.
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Billionaires are celebrated they're like superheroes.
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They're like deities.
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musicians are celebrated because they're multimillionaires.
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So you are less if you're in a social circle, money would always come in.
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It's like, how much money have you amassed?
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And nothing wrong with abundance.
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Absolutely nothing wrong with abundance.
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The question is why, are you chasing it?
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Is it to show?
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Is it for external validation or not?
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If you genuinely want to be abundant to serve the causes that you, that are close to your heart, to change the trajectory of your family while keeping them grounded.
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You have to keep them grounded.
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Everybody, every single-- I have three boys, they have to be grounded.
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if you love yourself and you deserve, you feel you deserve more, and I always say this, and you're not posturing, you're not performative with it.
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It is coming from an inner power No judgment ei-either way.
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So masculinity is wealth in the UK There's an issue with masculinity in the UK now.
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I am a coach.
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with the things I'm involved in, without saying too much, I'm seeing avoidant fathers around We're losing our emotions, like, and not like because we're becoming heartless.
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we're just not able to be as emotional as we should be.
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and so there's this avoidance with our partners, emotional avoidance with our partners, emotional avoidance with our children, And it can go different ways.
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It could be a really pushy dad to a dad that thinks his child is an egg.
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would not express, any, just any correction to the child with love, that is.
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and that's because, Culture is external.
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if you've read, the book, what's the name of the book again?
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it's by Russian and he talks about pendulums, And pendulums could be religion.
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In Nigeria, religion is very heavy, so there are two means of identity, wealth and religion, right?
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in the UK-- And sports.
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These are pendulums, like where we attach and we have bliss for a period of time, and that gives us temporary happiness, Masculinity is about grabbing identity now externally instead of going really deep into essence, into love somatically, just into nothingness, into oneness.
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And when you go external, there's duality.
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There's always the other.
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There's no way.
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If you get to sports, you don't like the other sports team, you take that to politics, it's the same thing.
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We're not always going to go-- It's not for everybody, right?
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to, to go into your deep masculine.
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it's just not for everybody.
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That's just the truth.
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some people believe in, in reincarnation.
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I don't really have a view on reincarnation, but I just think that some of us are stuck in loops.
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It is what it is.
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so yeah, masculinity is, it's being questioned.
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you talked about, providers, women coming into workforce.
00:18:57.998 --> 00:19:08.298
women also have wounds, from, a point of view of how their mothers were treated, how their fathers were treated, father wounds, mother wounds.
00:19:09.048 --> 00:19:16.307
and again, it's many women come from a time when there was a patriarch, right?
00:19:16.827 --> 00:19:19.397
And it wasn't pretty, right?
00:19:19.428 --> 00:19:22.468
to their moms, and so there are wounds that they're healing.
00:19:23.057 --> 00:19:29.718
men have lost their orientation, and I think the key thing is we are not looking inwards.
00:19:30.158 --> 00:19:39.408
we're just not looking inwards enough And loving ourselves unconditionally, just loving ourselves.
00:19:39.567 --> 00:19:43.198
we're told that we shouldn't love ourselves, it's selfish and all of that stuff.
00:19:44.597 --> 00:19:56.278
So I heard a quote from someone that said,"You can't love and control someone at the same time." And I feel like so much of masculinity is control, right?
00:19:56.288 --> 00:19:59.817
It's control, it's power, it's structure.
00:20:00.377 --> 00:20:05.518
And so it's hard to love yourself when you are trying to Control yourself and others.
00:20:05.847 --> 00:20:08.268
And so maybe there's some thread there as well.
00:20:08.508 --> 00:20:23.008
And so as we experience this interesting and unsolved place A lot of people call it a masculinity crisis, for the men that are listening, like, what are some things that you want, you would want to leave them with based on your journey?
00:20:23.008 --> 00:20:29.488
Obviously, your journey is yours, But I'm sure people look at you and there's some expectation of what you should act and become.
00:20:29.488 --> 00:20:36.438
and you've, since you've been able to unravel that, what would you, what kind of parting thoughts do you have for other men who are listening to this?
00:20:37.587 --> 00:20:45.508
when I journeyed with Bufo, which is 5-MeO-2, the, the God molecule.
00:20:46.038 --> 00:20:46.897
the toad poison.
00:20:47.238 --> 00:20:47.528
Yeah.
00:20:47.718 --> 00:20:48.567
The toad poison.
00:20:49.288 --> 00:20:55.528
the facilitator there said,"Kene, you're never gonna see the world again the same way you see it.
00:20:55.867 --> 00:21:01.978
just accept it." And apparently there's something it does to your brain where you never see life again.
00:21:02.478 --> 00:21:07.827
So what I've started to see in how I process things is energies and frequencies.
00:21:07.928 --> 00:21:18.678
it's either there's high energy in a, in an environment or low energy, and sometimes I could be in a very high energy place that actually takes away my energy, and I need to actually replenish myself.
00:21:19.428 --> 00:21:29.018
Before not going too deep into that, life is frequency, and you determine how or where you wanna vibrate.
00:21:29.018 --> 00:21:30.107
This is not woo-hoo.
00:21:30.928 --> 00:21:40.317
If you turn up with courage, with love, with curiosity, you'd attract that sort of energy.
00:21:40.877 --> 00:21:48.668
If you're angry, guilty, you're full of shame you attract, you stay in that lower energy.
00:21:48.708 --> 00:21:52.948
So it's really working towards at least courage.
00:21:52.998 --> 00:21:56.518
And I'm not saying, hey, bravery, where you're some commando.
00:21:57.077 --> 00:22:01.627
It's courage to speak your truth and be okay with your truth.
00:22:02.127 --> 00:22:08.557
Courage to love again, to love yourself deeply and use that to, to reflect on your loved ones first.
00:22:08.617 --> 00:22:16.798
Charity begins at home and further on courage to be a better father, to be a better lover, husband.
00:22:17.768 --> 00:22:21.887
Just courage, from a good place, from a place of love, right?
00:22:22.557 --> 00:22:25.218
so those are my words to anyone listening to this.
00:22:25.298 --> 00:22:38.087
and what puts you in those lower frequencies would tend to be something external, So a lot of things external puts duality in, in you.
00:22:38.097 --> 00:22:40.857
It's us versus them and that just...
00:22:41.827 --> 00:22:43.627
Protect your energies, basically.
00:22:44.127 --> 00:22:47.188
I stopped watching the news a while ago.
00:22:47.288 --> 00:22:50.107
it does find me on social media, but I can control it.
00:22:50.188 --> 00:22:52.137
I'm not sat on my TV.
00:22:52.137 --> 00:23:03.827
I don't watch Netflix, not because I feel it's bad, I just don't feel drawn to going through narratives, or be conditioned or I don't even have time.
00:23:04.408 --> 00:23:08.738
but yeah, it's like really control what you consume at every level.
00:23:09.387 --> 00:23:12.748
I think one of the pluses of social media is the fact that you could just turn it off.
00:23:13.038 --> 00:23:21.827
you could just say,"I'm done." As in,"I'm aware now, I'm, I'm done." so just building that emotional awareness is key.
00:23:22.637 --> 00:23:25.718
another thing is life is not just psychedelics.
00:23:25.837 --> 00:23:31.218
as in do breathwork, somatically connect with yourself, have a practice on a daily basis.
00:23:31.218 --> 00:23:33.998
I do breathwork first thing when I get up in the morning.
00:23:34.597 --> 00:23:36.468
that takes me to a meditative state.
00:23:36.518 --> 00:23:39.478
I meditate, I pray, I have affirmations.
00:23:39.998 --> 00:23:43.708
you need somebody, you need a reminder to remind you of the power in you.
00:23:44.698 --> 00:23:52.827
just stay positive, And yeah, that's pretty much what I, would tell, or I'd advise, listeners or other men, listening to this.
00:23:53.438 --> 00:24:01.218
if anyone, if you're in an environment where You just feel like you're less.
00:24:01.918 --> 00:24:02.508
Get out.
00:24:03.408 --> 00:24:04.097
Get out of it.
00:24:04.168 --> 00:24:04.988
There's no point.
00:24:06.067 --> 00:24:06.647
Just leave.
00:24:07.278 --> 00:24:18.168
you have to be in an environment where people value you, and it has to be reciprocal, you don't want to be stuck in an environment that's, telling you're less, you're this, you're that, and it affects you.
00:24:18.168 --> 00:24:19.307
You will be that.
00:24:19.307 --> 00:24:20.228
you will embody it.
00:24:20.307 --> 00:24:22.117
you're not a mutant or something.
00:24:23.018 --> 00:24:26.367
so that's why I was talking about the settings, the set and the settings.
00:24:26.918 --> 00:24:32.738
it's just as important in a ceremonial, state as with in everyday life.
00:24:33.038 --> 00:24:37.327
And even for women too, I think that We all know about how the body keeps the score.
00:24:37.728 --> 00:24:41.958
More and more than ever, we have this lexicon now for nervous system.
00:24:42.147 --> 00:24:48.258
I wish my mother, I wish our parents lived in a time when this became more understood, right?
00:24:48.258 --> 00:24:52.988
But she didn't have the community, the resources, the lexicon to even understand what nervous system regulation was.
00:24:53.728 --> 00:25:19.048
and nervous system regulation comes from feeling safe, from feeling loved, and from feeling that you belong in your body, And yes, surround yourself with good people, but oftentimes what the power of the plant medicine is that they are vessels of love that allows you to release anything that is blocking, whether it's ego, whether it's greed, whether it's armor, protection, so that you can tap into the infinite that is within all of us, which is love.
00:25:19.048 --> 00:25:21.528
And that's what it taught me, is that it's always available.
00:25:22.208 --> 00:25:23.678
We just have to learn how to tap into it.
00:25:23.678 --> 00:25:37.698
And I think from a woman's perspective, I think the issue with masculinity is that there's so much armor now and so many ways to dress up ourselves, and you're wearing so many things that you don't even know where the entryway is to tap into that.
00:25:37.778 --> 00:25:49.557
And so I love what you said for yourself as someone who's probably, when people see you, you have to be a tough, strong, you're a boy dad, you have three, boys, that you're able to tap into that, and that's really beautiful.
00:25:49.597 --> 00:25:57.617
And so hopefully it has allowed you to enrich the lives of not only your family, your community, your partner, but yourself.
00:25:57.627 --> 00:25:59.867
So what would you say as a last thing?
00:25:59.867 --> 00:26:12.127
What would you say to the Kunle that was really going through it, All of your tough, difficult times in your relationship where you felt out of alignment, when you were just close to just giving up hope, What would you say to that person now that you're on the other side of it?
00:26:12.428 --> 00:26:13.508
it'll be all right.
00:26:13.788 --> 00:26:14.708
It'll be all right.
00:26:14.738 --> 00:26:15.948
keep on doing the work.
00:26:17.228 --> 00:26:25.097
My, people in the community just initially when you're, when you have a problem or w- for me, I'll, I'll speak for myself.
00:26:25.748 --> 00:26:27.708
I kept on e-externalizing.
00:26:27.728 --> 00:26:31.107
Oh no, it's this person or it's that person.
00:26:31.478 --> 00:26:33.248
It's my parents, blah, blah, blah.
00:26:33.988 --> 00:26:41.857
And what I'll tell Kane at that time is just lean in, lean into your controllables.
00:26:42.347 --> 00:26:47.567
Lean in, take ownership, take 100% ownership with a smile.
00:26:48.567 --> 00:26:49.428
It'll be all right.
00:26:49.887 --> 00:26:51.258
it will just be all right.
00:26:51.857 --> 00:26:52.367
and that's it.
00:26:52.408 --> 00:27:00.408
and it sometimes it takes people to journey over and over again to take the responsibility, and some people are stuck in a loop where they just can't.
00:27:00.448 --> 00:27:01.268
And It is hard.
00:27:01.548 --> 00:27:12.298
people have been through a lot, and I don't think I even scrape the surface of what some-- the amount of trauma some people have been through.
00:27:13.048 --> 00:27:23.692
And, They're trying to heal and it's their journey and one has got to respect it, life is relative And the most important thing is being grateful.
00:27:23.951 --> 00:27:28.382
and it's not to sound cliché, it is to just be grateful.
00:27:28.402 --> 00:27:32.412
If you're hearing this now, be grateful you're hearing this.
00:27:33.122 --> 00:27:37.301
I was speaking to my friend the other day, and he's sometimes he wakes up with panic attacks.
00:27:37.301 --> 00:27:37.822
Yeah.
00:27:38.301 --> 00:27:47.801
I'm like,"Yes, I have, done that," but the, it has happened to me and the one thing to counter that is, is just being grateful.
00:27:47.862 --> 00:27:54.892
particularly when you're at that theta level, there's so many worries that could come and surface at night.
00:27:54.902 --> 00:27:56.112
Just be grateful.
00:27:56.471 --> 00:28:17.301
Be absolutely grateful and genuinely And if you could move with grace and gratitude all through the day with that energy and train yourself that in any circumstance you can lean to being grateful, life starts to change.
00:28:17.312 --> 00:28:34.021
your just the frames, it's almost like God puts a, gives you a new set of eyes to, view the world and you just start to appreciate things you wouldn't otherwise have and attract certain things you wouldn't have attracted.
00:28:34.672 --> 00:28:39.652
You could start going into conversations and you snap people back to gratefulness.
00:28:39.791 --> 00:28:47.721
It's powerful- to speak to someone and, as in the person's complaining and it's not like you're trying to correct them.
00:28:47.721 --> 00:28:51.942
It's just like,"Oh, no." As in like you find the good in that narrative.
00:28:51.942 --> 00:29:04.241
"Oh, it's raining, and yeah, actually we need the rain because it's been really dry for the last three months." so yeah, it's really that leaning in and finding the good, all through.
00:29:04.301 --> 00:29:06.902
not to say that you shouldn't be watchful.
00:29:06.912 --> 00:29:14.521
We all have to be, but I think, we've been overstimulated with so many things that, we forget gratefulness.
00:29:14.531 --> 00:29:27.852
So when you see that, oh, you're a bit off, maybe just look around you and say,"What are the things I'm doing that's making me increasing my cortisol levels and just making me overly alert?" And then self-correct with gratitude.
00:29:27.852 --> 00:29:28.812
Walk in nature.
00:29:29.491 --> 00:29:32.162
I was out in nature for four hours yesterday.
00:29:32.531 --> 00:29:42.692
I've been having-- I track stuff with my WHOOP, and for the last week everything's been all over the place, getting yellow recoveries, and with that four-hour walk in nature, everything just back.
00:29:42.692 --> 00:29:44.021
my HRV just shot up.
00:29:44.072 --> 00:29:45.451
Resting heart rate just dipped down.
00:29:45.662 --> 00:29:49.781
So it's synchronicity really, and, it's just gratitude.
00:29:50.860 --> 00:29:51.750
in my opinion.
00:29:51.769 --> 00:29:53.009
and then somatic work.
00:29:53.009 --> 00:29:53.880
When I discovered...
00:29:53.880 --> 00:30:00.620
I've been doing breathwork properly now, properly since, about October of'20, of last year.
00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.910
I'd been doing it, I'd been in and out of it, but I didn't really do it properly.
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:06.740
and that has changed my life, like completely.
00:30:06.819 --> 00:30:08.480
I know how to regulate myself.
00:30:08.509 --> 00:30:14.900
If I'm stressed, I know how to breathe deep into my diaphragms and really slow time down.
00:30:15.930 --> 00:30:27.610
Sometimes slowing time down Gives you space, gives you patience- and gives you energy to push forward no matter how things are going.
00:30:27.829 --> 00:30:28.549
So breathe.
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:29.130
the breath.
00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:32.049
This is why you should be grateful when you have the breath.
00:30:32.980 --> 00:30:34.259
You actually have breath.
00:30:34.870 --> 00:30:34.930
Yeah.
00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:36.250
And that breath is fire.
00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:37.519
it's life essence,
00:30:37.569 --> 00:30:45.900
The one thing that I think about when I think about the silver lining or the thread in everything that I'm doing is just like you, like we are the change we wanna see in the world.
00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:55.349
And I know that sounded like a cliche school bus chant, but after healing this relationship with my mother, I really understood it because she didn't change, She didn't do the psychedelic journey.
00:30:55.349 --> 00:30:56.630
She doesn't even know what that is.
00:30:56.970 --> 00:31:03.620
But because I changed the way I react to her, I'm not as activated, I'm not as triggered, and I don't react to her immediately.
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:10.150
I create this two seconds of spaciousness, and in that space comes awareness, comes gratitude, comes love.
00:31:10.529 --> 00:31:11.829
She also softened.
00:31:12.450 --> 00:31:15.039
And that has ripple effects into how she relates with other people.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:22.259
And she had an autoimmune condition that manifested and it came out of nowhere, and I really think our organs store emotions- in Chinese medicine.
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:25.799
she had, an autoimmune thing that attacked her lungs, not COVID related.
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.329
And in Chinese medicine, the lungs represent grief.
00:31:28.329 --> 00:31:35.569
And I think it was just all the years of grief, of losing my dad, of not having the life that she wanted, of always having to carry everyone's responsibility and provide.
00:31:35.970 --> 00:31:40.049
I think it finally caught up to her, and now she doesn't even take medicine for it anymore, right?
00:31:40.049 --> 00:31:43.660
Because- I've showed her so much love, and I just want to love on this woman.
00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.110
I fly her business class around the world.
00:31:45.110 --> 00:31:46.240
I try-- I call her every day.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:47.769
We used to talk once every four months.
00:31:47.809 --> 00:31:48.759
Now it's every day.
00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:51.599
Her being is absolutely changed.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.240
So we all have that power within us.
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:59.650
A lot of times change sounds insurmountable or unachievable, but we are absolutely the catalyst for change.
00:31:59.650 --> 00:32:01.299
If we heal ourselves, we can heal the world.
00:32:01.299 --> 00:32:03.910
So thank you so much for coming on here.
00:32:03.910 --> 00:32:08.509
This is not the typical conversation we usually have, but it's a really important one given what's going on in the world.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:13.440
Thank you for reminding us to, to let go of control so we can tap into the love that's always there.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:18.120
Thank you for reminding us to be grateful for the present moment, because that's all we have is the here and now.
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.460
So thank you so much for being on here, Kunle.
00:32:20.870 --> 00:32:21.210
A pleasure.
00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:38.079
And let everybody remember that there's some people circling the moon now, and they're looking at Earth and they're like,"We're one." No matter what anybody tells you, we're in this spaceship in nothingness, and we're just one.
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:44.029
Like just it's wild, like this entire experience that we're having.
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:44.690
Yeah.
00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:50.579
And if sometimes you just zoom out when you're breathing or whatever, to just realize that we're one.
00:32:50.829 --> 00:32:52.529
that's, it's all about oneness, not duality,
00:32:52.630 --> 00:32:53.650
Yeah, totally.
00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:54.880
Thank you so much.
00:32:54.930 --> 00:32:55.839
great conversation.
00:32:56.500 --> 00:32:57.019
Thanks, Gloria.
00:00:00.500 --> 00:00:01.689
Hey, small business heroes.
00:00:01.699 --> 00:00:03.189
It's your host, Gloria Chao.
00:00:03.229 --> 00:00:06.320
Today's conversation is gonna be very different, so buckle up.
00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:10.480
Usually, on this podcast, we talk about PR, marketing, AI visibility.
00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:18.300
Today is none of those things, today I'm gonna talk about something that you might have heard me speak about before, something very relevant and deep in my own personal journey that I've shared.
00:00:18.620 --> 00:00:26.570
It was fundamental to how I healed my relationship with my mom, how I peeled the layers of the scarcity, the fear, the trauma I was carrying.
00:00:27.089 --> 00:00:30.969
And the topic we will be talking about is healing through psychedelics.
00:00:30.989 --> 00:00:34.700
Now, I wanna be clear, I am not a medical professional, neither is my guest.
00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:41.350
This is not to motivate, initiate anyone to do any kind of psychedelic plant medicines.
00:00:41.780 --> 00:00:53.840
This is purely just a reflection on our exploration that we have done under supervised guidance in a safe space, and in no means is this telling anyone that they should apply this to your own journey.
00:00:53.869 --> 00:01:00.329
It's just merely a reflection of ours that maybe will be able to connect to some part of your journey.
00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:01.770
Welcome to the show, Kunle Campbell.
00:01:01.770 --> 00:01:03.039
He is my friend.
00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:03.939
He's based in the UK.
00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:10.879
He is a e-commerce coach in the, consumer space, and I actually interviewed him a year or two ago purely about, e-commerce.
00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:20.780
But today is something very different because we actually chatted about his journey with healing and psychedelics and the profound impact that it had on his life.
00:01:21.150 --> 00:01:26.219
And I think there's some nuance here because a lot of times when we talk about psychedelics, who gets to experience them?
00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:28.650
It's not main- it's not people like Kunle.
00:01:28.650 --> 00:01:31.200
It's not a Black man, It's not, an Asian woman.
00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:46.409
So I think there's some particular nuance when people of color get together and talk about what it means and for a long time it has been, commodified, consumerized by Western cultures when it's non-Western cultures that have carried, the legacy, the history, of these sacred plant medicines.
00:01:46.420 --> 00:01:48.469
So I just wanted to put that there before.
00:01:48.469 --> 00:01:49.519
So welcome to the show.
00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.260
Are you ready to get into this conversation?
00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:52.390
Absolutely,
00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:52.819
Gloria.
00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:54.390
Thank you for the intro.
00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:57.480
I appreciate you and it's always good to, to connect.
00:01:57.590 --> 00:02:02.489
always good to connect, and I'm looking forward to, just seeding a message with your audience.
00:02:02.540 --> 00:02:08.740
as we said, it's not necessarily an initiation, it's more just sharing my journey.
00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:17.810
as entrepreneurs, one of the greatest freedoms and blessings we have is that we don't get to necessarily separate our life from our business, right?
00:02:17.810 --> 00:02:19.900
Like our traumas, our insecurities will play out.
00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:25.050
So for me, psychedelics was really fundamental to, to seeing that, those sides of me.
00:02:25.050 --> 00:02:26.509
It's another mirror of reflection.
00:02:26.509 --> 00:02:36.060
Michael Pollan, who wrote the book,"Your Mind on Plants," he said that imagine your brain like grooves of snow, and you're always constantly sliding down those same grooves with a snow sled.
00:02:37.090 --> 00:02:45.629
But after a while, just gets used to those grooves, and what psychedelic plant medicine does, it puts a new layer of snow so that next time you can slide down new neural pathways.
00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:49.189
So I wanna hear from you, what are psychedelic plant medicines to you?
00:02:49.189 --> 00:02:49.819
What have they done?
00:02:49.819 --> 00:02:51.439
What is it, what are they a catalyst for?
00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:53.680
Let me give you a precursor.
00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:56.259
So I was speaking to an old friend of mine yesterday.
00:02:56.259 --> 00:02:57.569
We went out to the woods.
00:02:57.620 --> 00:02:58.770
it was Easter Monday.
00:02:58.780 --> 00:03:08.840
Here in the UK, you're allowed, it's also a bank holiday, quote-unquote,"Easter Monday." And we went out to the woods, and we were essentially just catching up.
00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:13.189
I hadn't seen him or spoken to him in five years, and life had happened, in both our lives.
00:03:13.810 --> 00:03:16.639
And, he'd gone down a different journey.
00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:18.050
He's in a men's circle.
00:03:18.460 --> 00:03:20.710
he's of Nigerian descent like myself.
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:35.069
And the interesting thing is that he's been in this men's circle for 10 years, and I got into psychedelics a year ago, and the funny thing and interesting thing is we spoke the same language, right?
00:03:35.069 --> 00:03:50.960
what I took from that yesterday was all of that integration work, self-awareness work, and all of that 10 years of self-awareness work can happen fairly quickly if you do the work with psychedelics, right?
00:03:51.330 --> 00:04:04.780
and quite interestingly, he had a major life event in his life which put him in shame, guilt, anger, hate for himself that led him to the men's circle.
00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:09.229
And it was similar to me, life event, shame, guilt, anger.
00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:14.610
And our consensus was that whatever will heal you will call you.
00:04:15.460 --> 00:04:31.422
So whether it's a, a men's circle, a women's circle, don't know, psychedelics, when the time is right, life would so happen for you that you'd be like This is my calling.
00:04:31.531 --> 00:04:32.851
This is what I need to do.
00:04:33.151 --> 00:04:36.012
and that's my take on the whole journey thus far.
00:04:36.632 --> 00:04:46.271
it's, it has been life, completely life-changing, but I needed to break, like really break to say,"You know what?
00:04:46.922 --> 00:04:51.502
I'm not going down the usual drink and drugs route.
00:04:52.341 --> 00:04:54.781
I want to heal." And some people get down there too.
00:04:55.312 --> 00:05:09.291
I had an option to, to self-destruct or self-construct, and I built on that journey and, yeah, it's sometimes in the journeys you, you're like,"What the am I doing here?
00:05:09.882 --> 00:05:10.922
how did I get here?
00:05:10.922 --> 00:05:18.312
How did this even happen?" But, it's been absolutely rewarding and, I, I couldn't have, had it any other way.
00:05:19.101 --> 00:05:26.151
I love what you said about the other route because a lot of people do when they think about psychedelics, right, they put it in the classification as drugs.
00:05:26.541 --> 00:05:31.351
alcohol is a drug and I think there's a difference between taking drugs to escape, which a lot of people do with alcohol, right?
00:05:31.391 --> 00:05:36.221
Sugar, shopping, sex- Yeah porn, all of that, and psychedelic plant medicine.
00:05:36.242 --> 00:05:43.242
And I think what we're talking about here is a very intentional therapeutic guided exploration of our internal landscape, right?
00:05:43.262 --> 00:05:44.721
it's not for- Yeah the faint of heart.
00:05:44.721 --> 00:05:47.322
It's not like,"Oh, I'm just gonna take some mushrooms today." It's not fun.
00:05:47.942 --> 00:05:50.541
You are exploring dark night of the soul stuff.
00:05:50.911 --> 00:05:53.581
so you talked about, all the other things.
00:05:53.732 --> 00:05:56.302
for me, First of all, everyone's journey is different, right?
00:05:56.302 --> 00:05:57.672
I don't want people to take away from it.
00:05:57.682 --> 00:05:59.132
It's like,"Oh, I need to heal.
00:05:59.132 --> 00:06:02.451
I'm just gonna shove a bunch of mushrooms in my mouth." it's not that.
00:06:02.552 --> 00:06:04.322
It's not like a silver bullet.
00:06:04.651 --> 00:06:07.291
What it does, it reveals different parts of you.
00:06:07.291 --> 00:06:15.781
It gives you information, often felt somatically, in the body that allows you to then deduct, make, use of that information.
00:06:15.781 --> 00:06:20.151
But it's not going to just you're gonna wake up and heal, so I just wanna be clear about that, right?
00:06:20.151 --> 00:06:20.341
It's not...
00:06:20.971 --> 00:06:25.752
but what you're saying is it can be a faster path than purely talk therapy.
00:06:25.752 --> 00:06:32.701
at least for me, I had to feel my mother's grief viscerally in my bones to then open up compassion for her that I felt.
00:06:33.141 --> 00:06:39.882
Yeah so for you, describe what that feels like,'cause I think a lot of people are-- We as humans, we're really good at rationalizing things in the brain.
00:06:39.882 --> 00:06:39.891
Oh,
00:06:39.891 --> 00:06:40.052
yeah.
00:06:40.742 --> 00:06:42.322
But trauma is- Yeah lived in the body, right?
00:06:42.322 --> 00:06:44.341
So how was that process for you?
00:06:44.781 --> 00:06:45.901
I took some notes.
00:06:45.901 --> 00:06:46.701
I journeyed...
00:06:47.372 --> 00:06:57.048
for me, it's an introspection, to self The set and setting is incredibly important.
00:06:57.098 --> 00:06:58.687
you need to be in the right setting.
00:06:58.798 --> 00:07:01.908
You need to have the right guides to help you.
00:07:02.548 --> 00:07:11.668
And my first foray into psychedelics properly was sitting in a psilocybin ceremony.
00:07:11.708 --> 00:07:12.947
It was very traditional.
00:07:13.627 --> 00:07:17.557
it was all men, apart from the Reiki healer.
00:07:17.737 --> 00:07:24.267
For those who don't know what Reiki is, they're like energy healers, that work energetically, who was there, who was female.
00:07:24.908 --> 00:07:32.038
And, for me, my entire view, worldview on masculinity was challenged there.
00:07:32.757 --> 00:07:43.228
I'd always thought that, being masculine was all about force, power, taking it, just always holding it in.
00:07:43.788 --> 00:07:50.418
And, that day I got the, still the strongest ever hug.
00:07:50.437 --> 00:07:52.637
I got a hug from the Reiki healer.
00:07:52.658 --> 00:07:58.487
she hugged me forward and then her husband hugged me behind, because I broke down.
00:07:58.487 --> 00:08:10.067
I completely broke down because, every notion, many first principle notions I had developed over the years were challenged in, in, in my spirit's mind.
00:08:11.038 --> 00:08:19.838
And, they reassured me and they quickly diagnosed me, and they're like,"My heart's chakra," if you're into chakras, was out of sync," and they were completely right.
00:08:20.728 --> 00:08:33.878
I did not feel loved, and I didn't love myself, and that was a huge pain to come to, to play to me on the surface.
00:08:34.477 --> 00:08:43.587
So that realization was the beginning, and I knew I had to do a lot of work to start to love myself.
00:08:44.778 --> 00:08:52.028
I thought masculinity was more about resistance when it is all about surrender.
00:08:52.457 --> 00:09:01.687
So that day, the medicines really humbled me to, create that awareness of what surrender was.
00:09:02.317 --> 00:09:16.187
and so I took on that understanding into other journeys, and when I surrendered, it would show me another thing, that journey to self-love is still ongoing it's always a conversation, you're having.
00:09:16.238 --> 00:09:30.217
It's a feeling, that rather, and just as certain settings are very important in a ceremonial setting or perspective, your certain settings every day is very important.
00:09:30.227 --> 00:09:39.227
If you have, people who tell you're no good on a regular basis, you're human, of course Some of it will come through.
00:09:39.227 --> 00:09:45.168
it's a matter of essentially changing your settings if you can.
00:09:45.248 --> 00:09:47.437
and you deserve to be loved.
00:09:47.618 --> 00:09:48.778
that's the key message.
00:09:48.778 --> 00:09:54.557
You really deserve to be loved, and this applies, this a universal, it's universal to anybody.
00:09:54.557 --> 00:09:57.868
I don't care wherever you are on your journey, you deserve love.
00:09:58.217 --> 00:09:58.238
Yeah.
00:09:58.727 --> 00:10:02.528
and you deserve, and once you deserve the love, you deserve to express love.
00:10:03.268 --> 00:10:04.727
and that's what all this is about.
00:10:04.888 --> 00:10:19.648
it's about journeying and s- just seeing love from all aspects, from all angles, and knowing that we are sacred, unique beings brought in.
00:10:19.717 --> 00:10:21.067
We have a lineage.
00:10:21.118 --> 00:10:30.368
I'd thought about my grandparents, my ancestors, and a lot of the time with modern life, we lose that connection to our ancestors.
00:10:31.288 --> 00:10:37.518
if you really think about what they had to bear for us to come through, it is our power.
00:10:37.758 --> 00:10:48.977
So the most external internal thing you can lean to is your bloodline, your ancestors, and the traumas they've carried and how you're healing from them as against anything external.
00:10:50.316 --> 00:10:52.216
I've come to terms with all of that.
00:10:52.216 --> 00:10:56.285
and so what the medicines have also shown me is the people after me.
00:10:56.296 --> 00:10:59.365
So if you have children, how are you turning up for the children?
00:10:59.365 --> 00:11:02.186
How have you turned up for your children in the past?
00:11:03.375 --> 00:11:07.836
I think it's the most honest way to come to terms with yourself.
00:11:07.836 --> 00:11:45.596
even sometimes I'm anxious to, once it's, to go into, a ceremony because I know, certain truths which are hard to take will come out, and it's left to you to accept, to surrender.
00:11:45.896 --> 00:11:47.646
Surrender is always the thing.
00:11:48.135 --> 00:11:51.515
and then, after that, it's left to you to integrate those truths.
00:11:52.076 --> 00:12:00.735
So for me, it's a journey of truths, yeah, I can go into more detail if you want me to, but, just at a top level, I think that's what, this is all about.
00:12:01.596 --> 00:12:01.745
Yeah.
00:12:01.745 --> 00:12:04.457
Your energy is very different.
00:12:04.457 --> 00:12:06.798
you have so much spaciousness.
00:12:07.268 --> 00:12:09.128
you speak slower, you're more grounded.
00:12:09.608 --> 00:12:13.538
I noticed one thing for me is, the nervous system recalibration.
00:12:13.548 --> 00:12:15.348
So first of all, just retract a little bit.
00:12:15.348 --> 00:12:18.447
When you said set and setting, what you mean by is mindset and setting, right?
00:12:18.447 --> 00:12:24.658
You don't want to obviously do this when you are in a deep internal conflict and you don't feel safe.
00:12:24.668 --> 00:12:32.577
It's better to have some kind of clarity, and that doesn't mean that you need clarity on your entire life, but not be in a state of distress, because obviously it can amplify that.
00:12:32.577 --> 00:12:34.388
So that's really what you mean by set and setting.
00:12:34.608 --> 00:12:36.408
So right mindset and the right setting.
00:12:36.718 --> 00:12:37.457
Do you have guides?
00:12:37.457 --> 00:12:38.567
Do you have facilitators?
00:12:38.567 --> 00:12:40.587
Do you have, people that can help you integrate?
00:12:40.587 --> 00:12:46.238
Because what can happen is after that, you go back into the real world, you're plugged and unplugged and you feel very jarring.
00:12:46.238 --> 00:12:47.278
So that's what you mean by that.
00:12:47.557 --> 00:12:59.087
I wanna talk about, the fact that we don't know what we come here with, A lot of times we think it's a blank slate, but we're actually carrying so much of our ancestors' stuff, so much of our parents' stuff, whether or not we'd like to admit it or not.
00:12:59.468 --> 00:13:03.248
my father died when I was three, so I don't really know him, but I know I represent so much of him.
00:13:03.788 --> 00:13:14.788
so that and the lineage of our ancestors who were either enslaved or in oppression, who were, my ancestors not ancestors, but literally, my mother was sewing shoes in a factory, living in communism.
00:13:14.788 --> 00:13:20.248
And so that scarcity, no matter how much money she made or where she was, she never felt safe.
00:13:20.248 --> 00:13:21.998
She always felt like she had to take care of everybody, right?
00:13:22.288 --> 00:13:24.548
'Cause she had no running water or electricity in her house.
00:13:24.557 --> 00:13:27.238
And that, that gets passed down to us, and we don't really acknowledge it.
00:13:27.238 --> 00:13:33.707
So we go through life doing what we're doing, but not knowing that we're constantly projecting what the stories that we already carried.
00:13:34.067 --> 00:13:35.858
And our life is always a reflection of us.
00:13:35.858 --> 00:13:42.317
So if it doesn't go well or if we're not able to receive love, we can't give love, our relationships are lacking, it's because we don't have that within us.
00:13:42.327 --> 00:13:45.738
So I love what you said, that it's really about surrendering.
00:13:45.738 --> 00:13:51.728
And I think a lot of people think masculinity is, like you said, resisting or I li- as I like to say, living with a clenched butt cheek.
00:13:51.837 --> 00:13:52.598
holding on.
00:13:52.608 --> 00:13:53.388
We wanna hold on.
00:13:53.388 --> 00:13:58.197
And so everything is about amassing wealth, your hierarchical power, your title.
00:13:58.918 --> 00:14:05.868
but surrender is something that I realized too, because only through surrender and letting go do you realize that are unlimited vessels of love.
00:14:06.378 --> 00:14:06.947
we are love.
00:14:06.947 --> 00:14:09.228
We are here to express love in all its creations.
00:14:09.427 --> 00:14:18.028
So can you talk to me a little bit about being a West African Black man, in society and obviously masculinity?
00:14:18.028 --> 00:14:25.008
Because I think we can all agree that, there's so many podcasts about this, that masculinity is at a very perilous juncture, That there's a lot.
00:14:25.018 --> 00:14:34.807
If you look at school shootings, if you look at violence, that men are trying to find their place in society because now women are out-earning and out-educating them, And so they're what are we here for?" So there's a lot.
00:14:34.807 --> 00:14:41.638
So can you talk about that from your own experience and how that has changed you as you dealt with masculinity and the way that you-- masculine people should behave?
00:14:42.687 --> 00:14:44.268
That's a double barrel question.
00:14:44.427 --> 00:14:46.228
that's a massive question.
00:14:46.238 --> 00:14:47.168
Where do I start?
00:14:47.668 --> 00:14:56.307
Okay, so as a West African, as a Nigerian man, generally culture, it starts with culture.
00:14:56.778 --> 00:15:05.207
it starts with the definition of masculinity and culture, and masculinity and culture from my culture is wealth.
00:15:06.468 --> 00:15:14.408
my culture is very materialistic and I think it's because of the state of poverty, the level of poverty.
00:15:14.798 --> 00:15:19.138
So that hero story of nothing to something.
00:15:20.008 --> 00:15:23.668
so in my country or where I come from, I'm now British.
00:15:23.668 --> 00:15:26.658
I've lived in Britain for 21 years, but I'm Nigerian.
00:15:27.947 --> 00:15:30.707
Billionaires are celebrated they're like superheroes.
00:15:30.707 --> 00:15:32.298
They're like deities.
00:15:32.478 --> 00:15:35.788
musicians are celebrated because they're multimillionaires.
00:15:37.077 --> 00:15:42.648
So you are less if you're in a social circle, money would always come in.
00:15:42.768 --> 00:15:45.648
It's like, how much money have you amassed?
00:15:47.048 --> 00:15:50.368
And nothing wrong with abundance.
00:15:50.548 --> 00:15:53.067
Absolutely nothing wrong with abundance.
00:15:53.077 --> 00:15:57.798
The question is why, are you chasing it?
00:15:57.827 --> 00:15:59.368
Is it to show?
00:15:59.418 --> 00:16:01.718
Is it for external validation or not?
00:16:03.218 --> 00:16:16.317
If you genuinely want to be abundant to serve the causes that you, that are close to your heart, to change the trajectory of your family while keeping them grounded.
00:16:17.098 --> 00:16:18.758
You have to keep them grounded.
00:16:18.788 --> 00:16:22.888
Everybody, every single-- I have three boys, they have to be grounded.
00:16:23.937 --> 00:16:35.148
if you love yourself and you deserve, you feel you deserve more, and I always say this, and you're not posturing, you're not performative with it.
00:16:36.077 --> 00:16:39.768
It is coming from an inner power No judgment ei-either way.
00:16:39.898 --> 00:16:48.317
So masculinity is wealth in the UK There's an issue with masculinity in the UK now.
00:16:48.378 --> 00:16:50.077
I am a coach.
00:16:50.238 --> 00:17:00.918
with the things I'm involved in, without saying too much, I'm seeing avoidant fathers around We're losing our emotions, like, and not like because we're becoming heartless.
00:17:00.918 --> 00:17:05.268
we're just not able to be as emotional as we should be.
00:17:06.107 --> 00:17:17.518
and so there's this avoidance with our partners, emotional avoidance with our partners, emotional avoidance with our children, And it can go different ways.
00:17:17.518 --> 00:17:22.677
It could be a really pushy dad to a dad that thinks his child is an egg.
00:17:23.907 --> 00:17:31.198
would not express, any, just any correction to the child with love, that is.
00:17:31.688 --> 00:17:34.298
and that's because, Culture is external.
00:17:34.397 --> 00:17:38.087
if you've read, the book, what's the name of the book again?
00:17:38.107 --> 00:17:42.758
it's by Russian and he talks about pendulums, And pendulums could be religion.
00:17:43.337 --> 00:17:51.218
In Nigeria, religion is very heavy, so there are two means of identity, wealth and religion, right?
00:17:51.788 --> 00:17:53.458
in the UK-- And sports.
00:17:54.028 --> 00:18:16.278
These are pendulums, like where we attach and we have bliss for a period of time, and that gives us temporary happiness, Masculinity is about grabbing identity now externally instead of going really deep into essence, into love somatically, just into nothingness, into oneness.
00:18:16.948 --> 00:18:19.317
And when you go external, there's duality.
00:18:19.317 --> 00:18:21.018
There's always the other.
00:18:21.978 --> 00:18:22.587
There's no way.
00:18:22.597 --> 00:18:27.857
If you get to sports, you don't like the other sports team, you take that to politics, it's the same thing.
00:18:28.357 --> 00:18:34.918
We're not always going to go-- It's not for everybody, right?
00:18:34.968 --> 00:18:36.908
to, to go into your deep masculine.
00:18:37.008 --> 00:18:38.087
it's just not for everybody.
00:18:38.087 --> 00:18:38.998
That's just the truth.
00:18:40.418 --> 00:18:42.867
some people believe in, in reincarnation.
00:18:43.867 --> 00:18:48.377
I don't really have a view on reincarnation, but I just think that some of us are stuck in loops.
00:18:48.528 --> 00:18:49.548
It is what it is.
00:18:50.758 --> 00:18:53.678
so yeah, masculinity is, it's being questioned.
00:18:53.678 --> 00:18:57.337
you talked about, providers, women coming into workforce.
00:18:57.998 --> 00:19:08.298
women also have wounds, from, a point of view of how their mothers were treated, how their fathers were treated, father wounds, mother wounds.
00:19:09.048 --> 00:19:16.307
and again, it's many women come from a time when there was a patriarch, right?
00:19:16.827 --> 00:19:19.397
And it wasn't pretty, right?
00:19:19.428 --> 00:19:22.468
to their moms, and so there are wounds that they're healing.
00:19:23.057 --> 00:19:29.718
men have lost their orientation, and I think the key thing is we are not looking inwards.
00:19:30.158 --> 00:19:39.408
we're just not looking inwards enough And loving ourselves unconditionally, just loving ourselves.
00:19:39.567 --> 00:19:43.198
we're told that we shouldn't love ourselves, it's selfish and all of that stuff.
00:19:44.597 --> 00:19:56.278
So I heard a quote from someone that said,"You can't love and control someone at the same time." And I feel like so much of masculinity is control, right?
00:19:56.288 --> 00:19:59.817
It's control, it's power, it's structure.
00:20:00.377 --> 00:20:05.518
And so it's hard to love yourself when you are trying to Control yourself and others.
00:20:05.847 --> 00:20:08.268
And so maybe there's some thread there as well.
00:20:08.508 --> 00:20:23.008
And so as we experience this interesting and unsolved place A lot of people call it a masculinity crisis, for the men that are listening, like, what are some things that you want, you would want to leave them with based on your journey?
00:20:23.008 --> 00:20:29.488
Obviously, your journey is yours, But I'm sure people look at you and there's some expectation of what you should act and become.
00:20:29.488 --> 00:20:36.438
and you've, since you've been able to unravel that, what would you, what kind of parting thoughts do you have for other men who are listening to this?
00:20:37.587 --> 00:20:45.508
when I journeyed with Bufo, which is 5-MeO-2, the, the God molecule.
00:20:46.038 --> 00:20:46.897
the toad poison.
00:20:47.238 --> 00:20:47.528
Yeah.
00:20:47.718 --> 00:20:48.567
The toad poison.
00:20:49.288 --> 00:20:55.528
the facilitator there said,"Kene, you're never gonna see the world again the same way you see it.
00:20:55.867 --> 00:21:01.978
just accept it." And apparently there's something it does to your brain where you never see life again.
00:21:02.478 --> 00:21:07.827
So what I've started to see in how I process things is energies and frequencies.
00:21:07.928 --> 00:21:18.678
it's either there's high energy in a, in an environment or low energy, and sometimes I could be in a very high energy place that actually takes away my energy, and I need to actually replenish myself.
00:21:19.428 --> 00:21:29.018
Before not going too deep into that, life is frequency, and you determine how or where you wanna vibrate.
00:21:29.018 --> 00:21:30.107
This is not woo-hoo.
00:21:30.928 --> 00:21:40.317
If you turn up with courage, with love, with curiosity, you'd attract that sort of energy.
00:21:40.877 --> 00:21:48.668
If you're angry, guilty, you're full of shame you attract, you stay in that lower energy.
00:21:48.708 --> 00:21:52.948
So it's really working towards at least courage.
00:21:52.998 --> 00:21:56.518
And I'm not saying, hey, bravery, where you're some commando.
00:21:57.077 --> 00:22:01.627
It's courage to speak your truth and be okay with your truth.
00:22:02.127 --> 00:22:08.557
Courage to love again, to love yourself deeply and use that to, to reflect on your loved ones first.
00:22:08.617 --> 00:22:16.798
Charity begins at home and further on courage to be a better father, to be a better lover, husband.
00:22:17.768 --> 00:22:21.887
Just courage, from a good place, from a place of love, right?
00:22:22.557 --> 00:22:25.218
so those are my words to anyone listening to this.
00:22:25.298 --> 00:22:38.087
and what puts you in those lower frequencies would tend to be something external, So a lot of things external puts duality in, in you.
00:22:38.097 --> 00:22:40.857
It's us versus them and that just...
00:22:41.827 --> 00:22:43.627
Protect your energies, basically.
00:22:44.127 --> 00:22:47.188
I stopped watching the news a while ago.
00:22:47.288 --> 00:22:50.107
it does find me on social media, but I can control it.
00:22:50.188 --> 00:22:52.137
I'm not sat on my TV.
00:22:52.137 --> 00:23:03.827
I don't watch Netflix, not because I feel it's bad, I just don't feel drawn to going through narratives, or be conditioned or I don't even have time.
00:23:04.408 --> 00:23:08.738
but yeah, it's like really control what you consume at every level.
00:23:09.387 --> 00:23:12.748
I think one of the pluses of social media is the fact that you could just turn it off.
00:23:13.038 --> 00:23:21.827
you could just say,"I'm done." As in,"I'm aware now, I'm, I'm done." so just building that emotional awareness is key.
00:23:22.637 --> 00:23:25.718
another thing is life is not just psychedelics.
00:23:25.837 --> 00:23:31.218
as in do breathwork, somatically connect with yourself, have a practice on a daily basis.
00:23:31.218 --> 00:23:33.998
I do breathwork first thing when I get up in the morning.
00:23:34.597 --> 00:23:36.468
that takes me to a meditative state.
00:23:36.518 --> 00:23:39.478
I meditate, I pray, I have affirmations.
00:23:39.998 --> 00:23:43.708
you need somebody, you need a reminder to remind you of the power in you.
00:23:44.698 --> 00:23:52.827
just stay positive, And yeah, that's pretty much what I, would tell, or I'd advise, listeners or other men, listening to this.
00:23:53.438 --> 00:24:01.218
if anyone, if you're in an environment where You just feel like you're less.
00:24:01.918 --> 00:24:02.508
Get out.
00:24:03.408 --> 00:24:04.097
Get out of it.
00:24:04.168 --> 00:24:04.988
There's no point.
00:24:06.067 --> 00:24:06.647
Just leave.
00:24:07.278 --> 00:24:18.168
you have to be in an environment where people value you, and it has to be reciprocal, you don't want to be stuck in an environment that's, telling you're less, you're this, you're that, and it affects you.
00:24:18.168 --> 00:24:19.307
You will be that.
00:24:19.307 --> 00:24:20.228
you will embody it.
00:24:20.307 --> 00:24:22.117
you're not a mutant or something.
00:24:23.018 --> 00:24:26.367
so that's why I was talking about the settings, the set and the settings.
00:24:26.918 --> 00:24:32.738
it's just as important in a ceremonial, state as with in everyday life.
00:24:33.038 --> 00:24:37.327
And even for women too, I think that We all know about how the body keeps the score.
00:24:37.728 --> 00:24:41.958
More and more than ever, we have this lexicon now for nervous system.
00:24:42.147 --> 00:24:48.258
I wish my mother, I wish our parents lived in a time when this became more understood, right?
00:24:48.258 --> 00:24:52.988
But she didn't have the community, the resources, the lexicon to even understand what nervous system regulation was.
00:24:53.728 --> 00:25:19.048
and nervous system regulation comes from feeling safe, from feeling loved, and from feeling that you belong in your body, And yes, surround yourself with good people, but oftentimes what the power of the plant medicine is that they are vessels of love that allows you to release anything that is blocking, whether it's ego, whether it's greed, whether it's armor, protection, so that you can tap into the infinite that is within all of us, which is love.
00:25:19.048 --> 00:25:21.528
And that's what it taught me, is that it's always available.
00:25:22.208 --> 00:25:23.678
We just have to learn how to tap into it.
00:25:23.678 --> 00:25:37.698
And I think from a woman's perspective, I think the issue with masculinity is that there's so much armor now and so many ways to dress up ourselves, and you're wearing so many things that you don't even know where the entryway is to tap into that.
00:25:37.778 --> 00:25:49.557
And so I love what you said for yourself as someone who's probably, when people see you, you have to be a tough, strong, you're a boy dad, you have three, boys, that you're able to tap into that, and that's really beautiful.
00:25:49.597 --> 00:25:57.617
And so hopefully it has allowed you to enrich the lives of not only your family, your community, your partner, but yourself.
00:25:57.627 --> 00:25:59.867
So what would you say as a last thing?
00:25:59.867 --> 00:26:12.127
What would you say to the Kunle that was really going through it, All of your tough, difficult times in your relationship where you felt out of alignment, when you were just close to just giving up hope, What would you say to that person now that you're on the other side of it?
00:26:12.428 --> 00:26:13.508
it'll be all right.
00:26:13.788 --> 00:26:14.708
It'll be all right.
00:26:14.738 --> 00:26:15.948
keep on doing the work.
00:26:17.228 --> 00:26:25.097
My, people in the community just initially when you're, when you have a problem or w- for me, I'll, I'll speak for myself.
00:26:25.748 --> 00:26:27.708
I kept on e-externalizing.
00:26:27.728 --> 00:26:31.107
Oh no, it's this person or it's that person.
00:26:31.478 --> 00:26:33.248
It's my parents, blah, blah, blah.
00:26:33.988 --> 00:26:41.857
And what I'll tell Kane at that time is just lean in, lean into your controllables.
00:26:42.347 --> 00:26:47.567
Lean in, take ownership, take 100% ownership with a smile.
00:26:48.567 --> 00:26:49.428
It'll be all right.
00:26:49.887 --> 00:26:51.258
it will just be all right.
00:26:51.857 --> 00:26:52.367
and that's it.
00:26:52.408 --> 00:27:00.408
and it sometimes it takes people to journey over and over again to take the responsibility, and some people are stuck in a loop where they just can't.
00:27:00.448 --> 00:27:01.268
And It is hard.
00:27:01.548 --> 00:27:12.298
people have been through a lot, and I don't think I even scrape the surface of what some-- the amount of trauma some people have been through.
00:27:13.048 --> 00:27:23.692
And, They're trying to heal and it's their journey and one has got to respect it, life is relative And the most important thing is being grateful.
00:27:23.951 --> 00:27:28.382
and it's not to sound cliché, it is to just be grateful.
00:27:28.402 --> 00:27:32.412
If you're hearing this now, be grateful you're hearing this.
00:27:33.122 --> 00:27:37.301
I was speaking to my friend the other day, and he's sometimes he wakes up with panic attacks.
00:27:37.301 --> 00:27:37.822
Yeah.
00:27:38.301 --> 00:27:47.801
I'm like,"Yes, I have, done that," but the, it has happened to me and the one thing to counter that is, is just being grateful.
00:27:47.862 --> 00:27:54.892
particularly when you're at that theta level, there's so many worries that could come and surface at night.
00:27:54.902 --> 00:27:56.112
Just be grateful.
00:27:56.471 --> 00:28:17.301
Be absolutely grateful and genuinely And if you could move with grace and gratitude all through the day with that energy and train yourself that in any circumstance you can lean to being grateful, life starts to change.
00:28:17.312 --> 00:28:34.021
your just the frames, it's almost like God puts a, gives you a new set of eyes to, view the world and you just start to appreciate things you wouldn't otherwise have and attract certain things you wouldn't have attracted.
00:28:34.672 --> 00:28:39.652
You could start going into conversations and you snap people back to gratefulness.
00:28:39.791 --> 00:28:47.721
It's powerful- to speak to someone and, as in the person's complaining and it's not like you're trying to correct them.
00:28:47.721 --> 00:28:51.942
It's just like,"Oh, no." As in like you find the good in that narrative.
00:28:51.942 --> 00:29:04.241
"Oh, it's raining, and yeah, actually we need the rain because it's been really dry for the last three months." so yeah, it's really that leaning in and finding the good, all through.
00:29:04.301 --> 00:29:06.902
not to say that you shouldn't be watchful.
00:29:06.912 --> 00:29:14.521
We all have to be, but I think, we've been overstimulated with so many things that, we forget gratefulness.
00:29:14.531 --> 00:29:27.852
So when you see that, oh, you're a bit off, maybe just look around you and say,"What are the things I'm doing that's making me increasing my cortisol levels and just making me overly alert?" And then self-correct with gratitude.
00:29:27.852 --> 00:29:28.812
Walk in nature.
00:29:29.491 --> 00:29:32.162
I was out in nature for four hours yesterday.
00:29:32.531 --> 00:29:42.692
I've been having-- I track stuff with my WHOOP, and for the last week everything's been all over the place, getting yellow recoveries, and with that four-hour walk in nature, everything just back.
00:29:42.692 --> 00:29:44.021
my HRV just shot up.
00:29:44.072 --> 00:29:45.451
Resting heart rate just dipped down.
00:29:45.662 --> 00:29:49.781
So it's synchronicity really, and, it's just gratitude.
00:29:50.860 --> 00:29:51.750
in my opinion.
00:29:51.769 --> 00:29:53.009
and then somatic work.
00:29:53.009 --> 00:29:53.880
When I discovered...
00:29:53.880 --> 00:30:00.620
I've been doing breathwork properly now, properly since, about October of'20, of last year.
00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.910
I'd been doing it, I'd been in and out of it, but I didn't really do it properly.
00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:06.740
and that has changed my life, like completely.
00:30:06.819 --> 00:30:08.480
I know how to regulate myself.
00:30:08.509 --> 00:30:14.900
If I'm stressed, I know how to breathe deep into my diaphragms and really slow time down.
00:30:15.930 --> 00:30:27.610
Sometimes slowing time down Gives you space, gives you patience- and gives you energy to push forward no matter how things are going.
00:30:27.829 --> 00:30:28.549
So breathe.
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:29.130
the breath.
00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:32.049
This is why you should be grateful when you have the breath.
00:30:32.980 --> 00:30:34.259
You actually have breath.
00:30:34.870 --> 00:30:34.930
Yeah.
00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:36.250
And that breath is fire.
00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:37.519
it's life essence,
00:30:37.569 --> 00:30:45.900
The one thing that I think about when I think about the silver lining or the thread in everything that I'm doing is just like you, like we are the change we wanna see in the world.
00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:55.349
And I know that sounded like a cliche school bus chant, but after healing this relationship with my mother, I really understood it because she didn't change, She didn't do the psychedelic journey.
00:30:55.349 --> 00:30:56.630
She doesn't even know what that is.
00:30:56.970 --> 00:31:03.620
But because I changed the way I react to her, I'm not as activated, I'm not as triggered, and I don't react to her immediately.
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:10.150
I create this two seconds of spaciousness, and in that space comes awareness, comes gratitude, comes love.
00:31:10.529 --> 00:31:11.829
She also softened.
00:31:12.450 --> 00:31:15.039
And that has ripple effects into how she relates with other people.
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:22.259
And she had an autoimmune condition that manifested and it came out of nowhere, and I really think our organs store emotions- in Chinese medicine.
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:25.799
she had, an autoimmune thing that attacked her lungs, not COVID related.
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:28.329
And in Chinese medicine, the lungs represent grief.
00:31:28.329 --> 00:31:35.569
And I think it was just all the years of grief, of losing my dad, of not having the life that she wanted, of always having to carry everyone's responsibility and provide.
00:31:35.970 --> 00:31:40.049
I think it finally caught up to her, and now she doesn't even take medicine for it anymore, right?
00:31:40.049 --> 00:31:43.660
Because- I've showed her so much love, and I just want to love on this woman.
00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.110
I fly her business class around the world.
00:31:45.110 --> 00:31:46.240
I try-- I call her every day.
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:47.769
We used to talk once every four months.
00:31:47.809 --> 00:31:48.759
Now it's every day.
00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:51.599
Her being is absolutely changed.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.240
So we all have that power within us.
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:59.650
A lot of times change sounds insurmountable or unachievable, but we are absolutely the catalyst for change.
00:31:59.650 --> 00:32:01.299
If we heal ourselves, we can heal the world.
00:32:01.299 --> 00:32:03.910
So thank you so much for coming on here.
00:32:03.910 --> 00:32:08.509
This is not the typical conversation we usually have, but it's a really important one given what's going on in the world.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:13.440
Thank you for reminding us to, to let go of control so we can tap into the love that's always there.
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:18.120
Thank you for reminding us to be grateful for the present moment, because that's all we have is the here and now.
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.460
So thank you so much for being on here, Kunle.
00:32:20.870 --> 00:32:21.210
A pleasure.
00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:38.079
And let everybody remember that there's some people circling the moon now, and they're looking at Earth and they're like,"We're one." No matter what anybody tells you, we're in this spaceship in nothingness, and we're just one.
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:44.029
Like just it's wild, like this entire experience that we're having.
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:44.690
Yeah.
00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:50.579
And if sometimes you just zoom out when you're breathing or whatever, to just realize that we're one.
00:32:50.829 --> 00:32:52.529
that's, it's all about oneness, not duality,
00:32:52.630 --> 00:32:53.650
Yeah, totally.
00:32:54.360 --> 00:32:54.880
Thank you so much.
00:32:54.930 --> 00:32:55.839
great conversation.
00:32:56.500 --> 00:32:57.019
Thanks, Gloria.
