Single Payer Radio Medical Mission work Dr Rosenbloom 06-18-2026

WEBVTT
1
00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:09.800
Hello, and welcome to Single Pair Radio. I'm Paul Hoppey,
2
00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:13.519
broadcasting from the Haburn Building in Louisville on the WFMP
3
00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.640
one six point five Forward Radio Community Network, where news,
4
00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:22.559
information and entertainment is available twenty four hours a day,
5
00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:27.399
seven days a week. If you use an opinions expressed
6
00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:29.440
on our show or those of the speakers and not
7
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:33.880
the station. Single Pair Radio is a project of Kentuckians
8
00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.719
for Single Payer Healthcare in conjunction with Physicians for a
9
00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.799
National Health Program through its Kentucky chapter. We produce this
10
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.560
program because we believe healthcare is a human right. We
11
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:50.840
advocate for a national, not for profit, publicly funded, single
12
00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.960
payer healthcare system, also known as Enhanced Medicare for all,
13
00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.320
covering dental, vision, hearing prescriptions, mental health, and long term
14
00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:05.959
care covering everyone starting at birth. Catch our programs at
15
00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:10.920
two pm Monday, seven am Tuesday, at eleven am on Wednesday.
16
00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:16.120
We also stream our show on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, and others,
17
00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:20.040
so you can listen anytime. And remember, this is an
18
00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:23.560
all volunteer radio station and relies on your ideas and
19
00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:28.200
donations to keep us on the air. Today, Doctors Mike
20
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:31.359
Flynn and Gene Shadley joined me as co hosts with
21
00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:35.840
their special guest. Let's get started, Doctor Flynn.
22
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:42.200
Now, this is Michael Flynn, retired surgical oncologist from the
23
00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:46.280
Apartment of Surgery. Let me begin with the usual disclaimer.
24
00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:51.519
Any comments I may represent my personal views and do
25
00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:54.959
not represent the views of the Department of Surgery or
26
00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:56.439
the University of Louisville.
27
00:01:56.879 --> 00:02:01.920
Gene, this is your Jene Shahim, a retired general surgeon
28
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.079
from Campbellsville, Kentucky. I trained at the University of Louisville.
29
00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:11.080
After my residency, came to Campbellsville, my hometown, and been
30
00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:16.639
doing rural surgery ever since. Uh, I would like to
31
00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.599
say that by what I say is my opinion and
32
00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:23.639
not that a Taylor Regional Hospital or the University of
33
00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:25.680
Lowell Department of Surgery.
34
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:30.719
Well, our topic today is it's a little unusual from
35
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:32.800
some of the things we've done in the past and
36
00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:38.199
medical mission trips, and Jane and I and our special guests,
37
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.680
who who I will introduce in a moment, will discuss
38
00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:48.000
some of the issues that one runs into one going
39
00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:53.800
into another country to provide in our case is surgery
40
00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.039
our specially and each of US have done a number
41
00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:04.919
of medical mission trips. So our special guest is Phil Rosenbloom.
42
00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:09.360
Phil's a retired general surgeon from Louisville. He got his
43
00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:14.919
medical degree and PhD at Vanderbilt, did a residency in
44
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.000
general surgery at Johns Hopkins and the University of Louisville,
45
00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:21.759
and has made mission trips to Kenya.
46
00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:24.120
So Phil, thank you for coming on.
47
00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.599
We're grateful that you're willing to join Gene and I
48
00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.599
and talk about this interest, this issue, which I hope
49
00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:35.879
will be interesting to our listeners. As we have done
50
00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.680
with our guests in the past, we're going to give
51
00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:43.159
you an opportunity to make whatever comments you'd like to make,
52
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.120
for as long as you'd like to make them, and
53
00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:50.000
then we'll begin the conversation and Gene and I will
54
00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.840
share some of our experiences. So Phil, the Flora is yours.
55
00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.639
Thank you very much for having met with you. My
56
00:03:59.159 --> 00:04:03.840
mission trips are marketly limited compared to what doctor Shively
57
00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.680
is done and to doctor Flynn. It consists really of
58
00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.759
two trips to Kenya, which I'll come back to in
59
00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:17.240
a minute. After I had retired, I happened to be
60
00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.959
at a reunion at Vanderbilt and a good old friend
61
00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:26.040
who's spent many, many many years in medical missionary, doctor
62
00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:30.839
John Tarpley, was talking to me and asked me if
63
00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:35.199
I had an interest in going to Kenya. They are
64
00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:38.360
the hospital there and they worked through and I'll come
65
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:40.040
back to the hospital itself.
66
00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:43.839
The one of the general surgeons was.
67
00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.680
Going to have to be away for a while and
68
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.759
he was wondering if I'd be willing to go there
69
00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.240
and work for a few weeks. It sounded interesting. I
70
00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:59.600
cleared it with my wife and I then started to proceed.
71
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:05.560
It took a little getting familiar with the process. I
72
00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:09.240
had to get a Kenya medical license and I had
73
00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:12.959
to be credentialed by the hospital itself. Now the hospital
74
00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.600
is a faith based hospital. It's part of what's called
75
00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:23.040
tax system. It's Pan African Academy of Christian Surgeons. They
76
00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:28.079
have a number of hospitals throughout Africa, something like twenty
77
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:32.079
one hospitals in about twelve different countries. Kenya is one
78
00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:38.319
of their major places. They When I first went there,
79
00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:40.639
they were just getting started in their training and they
80
00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:48.839
practically most of the work was done by the medical missions,
81
00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:54.920
mostly doctors, white doctors from Western countries. They pretty much
82
00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:57.920
did everything, but they were just starting to bring in residents.
83
00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:03.199
They have created over the last decade or so a
84
00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:11.120
tremendous program of training African surgeons in different fields including
85
00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:18.399
general surgery, orthopedic surgery, pediatric surgery, neurosurgery, thoracic surgery, and anesthesia.
86
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:22.360
I've had the privilege of being able to be there
87
00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:25.319
the very first time. I was primarily the primary doctor
88
00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.160
surgeon there. When I returned, I was more of an
89
00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:32.040
attending surgeon helping the residents each time. I was able
90
00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:40.240
to fill in where they lacked adequate staff. The hospital,
91
00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:46.160
again is in a small community called Kajabi. It's about
92
00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:50.120
an hour and a half ride north of Nairobi, ends
93
00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:55.959
on a winding road that becomes a dirt road. And
94
00:06:56.040 --> 00:07:01.040
despite that it's a modern hospital, they lack a lot
95
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.560
as compared to Western hospitals. What we find out the
96
00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.560
kind of practice we can do with very limited resources
97
00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:14.480
and it's surprisingly nice and what we're able to accomplish
98
00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:17.000
and now what they were able to accomplish as well.
99
00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:22.040
So as mentioned, the very first time I was there,
100
00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:26.199
I was on call. I was like a resident there
101
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.680
in many ways as well as a primary surgeon there,
102
00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:37.560
and we saw a lot of different types of endemic
103
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.000
diseases that we don't necessarily see here. We did not
104
00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:47.800
see a lot of penetrating trauma like gunshot wounds and
105
00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:50.360
stab wounds we had here. In fact, the only penetrating
106
00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:54.560
trama I saw was a injury from a water buffalo
107
00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:58.439
in which he, a gentleman, got a newmo thorax from
108
00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:03.160
being scabbed by the home the water buffalo. There are
109
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:08.360
other injuries that you see there, such as hippopotamus injuries
110
00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:11.279
that you don't see here, et cetera, and those are
111
00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:11.839
very severe.
112
00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.759
Well, we don't have a lot of hippopotamuses running around
113
00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.160
in our streets here, I mean, but we.
114
00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:18.879
Have other people running other things.
115
00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:21.639
The second so, as mentioned again, the second time I
116
00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:28.839
went back, actually took my son, who's a pediatric interns
117
00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:33.639
down at Vanderbilt, and he ran and they were lacking
118
00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:38.159
staff on the pediatric side, and he essentially acted as
119
00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.840
an attending on the pediatric side. There's a lot that
120
00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.759
can be done in this type of situation. Again, it's
121
00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:49.240
working out of the hospital itself. You had mentioned something
122
00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:53.000
prior to the opening of this meeting about security, their
123
00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:58.360
security around the hospital. But I never felt unsecure throughout
124
00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:02.519
the time I was in Kenya, neither in Nairobi at
125
00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:07.399
the airport or traveling, although I was picked up by
126
00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:13.440
a gentleman who I used as a tour guide there
127
00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:13.960
as well.
128
00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:18.159
UH and UH to the hostel, to the town.
129
00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.320
As far as where you stay, they have little apartments
130
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:27.759
that you can stay at. It's very inexpensive UH. And
131
00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.200
and the food is very inexpensive and quite unique and
132
00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:32.639
interesting and delicious.
133
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:33.440
UH.
134
00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.919
The pound itself has has very little to offer, but
135
00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:39.399
that's not why we were there.
136
00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:41.639
The it does.
137
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.799
It's a beautiful area since it's seven thousand feet overlooking
138
00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:51.159
the Great Risk Valley, and it's actually a beautiful place
139
00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:58.720
to be in the experiences talk about, you know, the
140
00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.720
as far as expensive concerned, I have paid my own
141
00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:06.600
travel expenses. I have pay the licensure in malpractice UH
142
00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:09.919
being there, but that's negligible compared to what it is
143
00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:14.799
in this country. And UH and the UH and just
144
00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.879
room and board. But believe me, I got much more
145
00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:21.279
out of it than I ever put into it.
146
00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.919
And it's just a tremendous experience.
147
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.600
Now, did you do more elective surgery or non elective
148
00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:32.039
or trauma surgery when you were there either.
149
00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.480
Time, right, most of the most of it is elective surgery.
150
00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:40.120
It's not what we see here. For instance, gallbladder disease
151
00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.000
is not that common there, and other things are like
152
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:46.000
a savageio cancer is much more common there than we
153
00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:51.600
see here otherwise, UH, and a lot of diseases related
154
00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:56.039
to diabetes UH is an issue there, and people coming
155
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.399
in with schemic limbs, et cetera. H.
156
00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:01.399
So there's a lot of that there.
157
00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:05.240
As far as emergency surgery is concerned, there is a
158
00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.919
considerable amount of blunt trauma from all obio accents, and
159
00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:11.679
we do get some of that. I think most of
160
00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:15.000
it goes to orthopedic, but there was also some general surgery.
161
00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:20.240
I had one gentleman that came in with a ruptured spleen.
162
00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.600
I didn't keep bleeding.
163
00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.240
I had to operate on him, but I was able
164
00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.639
to staunch the bleeding without taking out his spleen and
165
00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:29.360
he went on to do well.
166
00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:34.360
You do see things far more advanced.
167
00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:38.000
There than you do here typically, but most of it
168
00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:39.200
is elective surgery.
169
00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.919
All right, Jane, you want to carry the ball from
170
00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:43.120
here for a while.
171
00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:48.000
Yeah, I've had a great experience in medical mission trips.
172
00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.039
It's been one of the high lives of my life.
173
00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:59.960
And I think it's very very interesting that global matters,
174
00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:04.720
and it's really becoming very very popular. In the last
175
00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:08.840
ten years, the American College Assurgeons has gotten very very interested.
176
00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:14.799
They have a separate group I call American College Assertions HOPE,
177
00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:21.320
and they actually have training classes for that. This year
178
00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.480
at the Congress they will have a class that last
179
00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:27.200
the whole day on how to do things in the
180
00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:31.200
third world country. A lot of the younger surgeons don't
181
00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:38.519
know how to do some of the non general surgery
182
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:47.039
things like, for example, hysterectomies, and so there's training in
183
00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:51.360
that and they have includes a plastic surgery. I've been
184
00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:58.799
to Kenyon Relief about five times and I've been with
185
00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:05.440
doctor Tom Klint and we we've always really enjoyed it.
186
00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.000
Tom and I would stop in Europe for a couple
187
00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:11.480
of days and then fly on to Nairobi.
188
00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:12.600
UH.
189
00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:16.320
It takes it took about it almost a day to
190
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:21.080
get to the hospital which is close to the Tanzania
191
00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:27.960
border UH and then we would operate UH for about
192
00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:33.759
four days. We stayed in an orphanage, and also there's
193
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:38.759
a school, and then the hospital was across the street.
194
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:46.159
It was fairly uh interesting that we did a lot
195
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:51.759
of very very very large thyroids uh and sometimes that
196
00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:57.799
operations were quite difficult, and caesua was difficult. We had
197
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.120
to be very careful. And the Kenyans have so many
198
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.080
big orders because they don't have eye on for some reason.
199
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:09.440
You would think that that would be a relatively cheap
200
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.039
thing to do. And then the one of the most
201
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.759
interesting things, and one of the reasons I think that
202
00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:24.720
people should look into this is that after we did
203
00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.519
our surgery, we went on safari and we went to
204
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.159
the Mossi amer and this is where they have the
205
00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:37.679
great migration of the wilder beast. And and well we
206
00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.759
would go on the today we got there, we would
207
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.639
go on safari and then uh the morning and evening
208
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.720
the next day. And in the morning when we were leaving,
209
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:54.279
and I had the pleasure of going across the Savannah
210
00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:59.279
in a hot air balloon who started daylight and then
211
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:01.960
we'd be up in the air for about two or
212
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.799
three hours and then land and they had champagne breakfast
213
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.039
for us. And it was a phenomenal experience. You felt
214
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.679
like you were a movie star on a movie. He said.
215
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:16.039
I've also been to a hospital up near Mount Kenya.
216
00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.840
My daughter and I spent a couple of weeks there
217
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:28.200
doing surgery. I've went to Cameroon. This was also with
218
00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:33.080
a PACKS program. The Packs have done a phenomenal job
219
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.559
in Africa. They've been around for about twenty five years.
220
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:42.519
It was started by a medical missionary named Thompson who
221
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:48.639
was a surgeon in Gaboon, which was where Albert Weicher practiced,
222
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.360
and he came up the idea, you know, we've got
223
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.960
to change the way we're doing things, and so he
224
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:01.679
came up with the idea of PACKS and they trained
225
00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:07.120
African surgeons in Africa. If you train African surchons in
226
00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.120
Europe and the United States have a tendency to stay.
227
00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.240
And I'm not criticizing them for that. I probably would too,
228
00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.320
but they trained over one hundred surgeons. Now they have
229
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:22.399
one hospital in Kenya, College Henwick and they do even
230
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.679
cardiothorastic surgery and do a lot of aalvular surgery from
231
00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:35.720
umatic fever. I went with Jerry Larson to Cameroon. We
232
00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.879
spent a couple of weeks, gave lectures and helped the residence.
233
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:42.759
This was also a packed hospital. And then one of
234
00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:48.720
the most interesting experiences I had we went to Togo. Togo
235
00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:53.960
is a country in West Africa. It's next to bann
236
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:57.919
This is where a lot of the slave trade took place,
237
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.919
particularly in Banana. And when I was there in two
238
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.759
thousand and three, there were no modern grocery stores. Almost
239
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:12.440
all the shopping and groceries and everything was done out
240
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.400
in the market, and every town have a market on
241
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:19.319
different days. There was in a capital, which is low made,
242
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:23.200
they had one store was kind of like a convenience store.
243
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.240
Was one of the most interesting medical experience I had
244
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.839
was the first day I got there, the pediatrician said,
245
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.160
I've got this child in need you to operate on.
246
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.480
He's got a cute abdomen. So I operated on him
247
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.279
and he had a hole ands intestine near the end
248
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:44.519
of it where it goes into the coal and that's
249
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:49.559
called the terminal ilium. And I looked at him and
250
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.480
I said what calls this? And he kind of smiled
251
00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.160
and walked off. I seld it up. He did okay,
252
00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.319
and then I found out right after the search that
253
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.559
we were at a typhoid epidemic, and I had never
254
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.880
seen any case of typhoid my whole life. In the thirties,
255
00:18:09.880 --> 00:18:13.440
my mom and her mom and dad and her brother
256
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:18.200
were quarantined here in Campbellsville for typhoid. But it really
257
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.599
woke me up about infectious disease. During that two week
258
00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.240
period of time, we operated on twenty four patients with
259
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:33.759
perfrayed iliams from typhoid. Four of them died, so that
260
00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:39.039
was really interesting. The other interesting thing that I did there,
261
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.000
and I kind of like to brag about it, is
262
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.559
I had a patient with this huge olverin tumor and
263
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.440
it was cyril sistad and on one that's U A
264
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.480
nine tumor of the ovary, and that's the same type
265
00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.759
of tumor that Jane Todd Crawford had. Jane Todd Crawford
266
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.519
was the first person to ever have inter abdominal surgery
267
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.920
and now was done here in Kentucky in eighteen old
268
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.599
I think it was eighteen o nine. It was done
269
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:12.599
in Danville by Aphram McDowell and Jane Todd Crawford was
270
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.519
from Green County, which is only about eleven miles from
271
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.319
where I live. I live in Taylor County, and she
272
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:27.880
had this large circle system adnoma. Aphan McDowell told her
273
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:30.519
that nobody had ever taken one of these out. There
274
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:33.519
was no good treatment. If something wasn't done, she would die.
275
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:39.359
And so he operated on her on Christmas Day in
276
00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:45.920
his bedroom. There was no anthesia and then and there
277
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.720
were some men who held her down and supposedly she
278
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:54.920
shung hymns and he took out this tumor that weigh
279
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.839
twenty one and a half pounds, and she recovered from
280
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:05.680
at surgery and actually out loyalty for McDowell. Well, the
281
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:09.720
lady that I took the tomber out of it weighed
282
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:13.960
twenty five pounds. So I beat e from McDowell, you know,
283
00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:17.960
and her and Tessa's were kind of pushed down against
284
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.599
her back. So we did all types of interesting surgery there.
285
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:26.759
I can go keep going if you want me to.
286
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:31.559
But Mike, you want to talk about some of your experiences.
287
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.359
Yeah, I'll do that and then we can we can
288
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:37.119
come back and of bouncing around a little bit. I
289
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.440
was in Vietnam in nineteen sixty eight. I was a
290
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.640
thirty year resident General Surgery at the University of Maryland
291
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:49.119
in Jamaica nineteen eighty six. In Ecuador in twenty eighteen
292
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:55.319
or twenty sixteen. As you know, that war in Vietnam
293
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:03.759
went on for about ten years. The American Medical Association
294
00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:13.559
and USAID, which was just something a program which is
295
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:21.440
kind of being dismantled by the current administration, got together
296
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:29.880
and kind of formed this program Volunteer Physicians for Vietnam,
297
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.240
so that people from this country would go over there
298
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:39.000
and provide healthcare. A lot of it was surgical healthcare
299
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:45.079
for the civilian population who were traumatized by the war.
300
00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:51.000
And I ended up in January and February of nineteen
301
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:59.279
sixty eight in the Mekong Delta. There was a there
302
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:08.559
was a at eighth Air Force surgical team there carrying
303
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:15.000
out the treatment of the civilian casualties. It was it
304
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:17.759
was an interesting time and I saw, I saw some
305
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.000
of the trauma things that I've never seen since then,
306
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:27.960
and I hope nobody ever sees again. And what happened
307
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:32.400
Usually the firefights would go on from about uh uh
308
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.079
one or two in the morning until about three or
309
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.000
four in the morning, and then I guess if I
310
00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:42.079
had Kong went home and went to bed. It took
311
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:45.799
an hour or two to secure the area, and then
312
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:50.200
the casualties would then be brought in to the hospital.
313
00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:53.960
They came in on sampans, they came in on sea clothes,
314
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.799
which was basically a bicycle with a seat in front
315
00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:02.720
of it, in trucks and occasionally in helicopter. And you know,
316
00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:04.960
for the two months I was there, I think I
317
00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:07.920
saw one breast cancer and maybe one or two other
318
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:13.119
elective surgical procedures, and.
319
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.839
And all the rest of it was was was trauma.
320
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.680
And just to give you a few examples of the
321
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:27.920
of the of the kinds of trauma, There's a thing
322
00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:32.720
called a pungy stick, and this was some bamboo that
323
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.359
was the end of it was sharpened.
324
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:35.799
And it was.
325
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.400
It was hardened in a fire, and then it was
326
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:42.240
it would be.
327
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:49.960
Kind of soaked in a nasty combination of human and
328
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.759
animal excrete it and put on the sides of the trails.
329
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.000
They would make a hole in the ground and cover
330
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.839
it up with some stuff and put a bunch of
331
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:03.319
pungee sticks in there. And this thing would go right
332
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:06.599
through the bottom of a shoe it was so hard
333
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:14.200
into the foot cause really nasty, ascending cellulitis.
334
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:17.079
I saw a lot of napalm.
335
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:25.319
When an individual or a child would step on an
336
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:31.440
anti personnel bomb on the ground, the basically the foot
337
00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:34.480
would get blown up and the bits of shrapnel would
338
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:39.319
kind of come up and damage their legs and sometimes
339
00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:43.000
their genitalia. I mean, these were really really a lot
340
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:49.160
of nasty stuff. The injury that you get from an
341
00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:56.440
assault weapon M sixteen or AK forty seven's or whatever
342
00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:01.319
being used. These high velocity missiles a little small opening
343
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.799
when they come into the skin, and then there's a
344
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:10.480
cavitation effect. And I remember seeing of Yet Kong who
345
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:14.319
literally had his intestines out on his antario abdominal wall
346
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.599
because of a gunshot wound from the back. So a
347
00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:27.240
lot of really nasty stuff. That the Vietnamese were small people,
348
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.920
and often in the wards there'd.
349
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:34.960
Beat two of them in a bit. In the end
350
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:36.440
of January.
351
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:44.400
Nineteen sixty eight, the Tet Offensive occurred, which was an
352
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:52.400
interesting traumatic experience that turned out to be a military
353
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:58.599
failure and a political advantage for of Yet Kong because
354
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.480
all the pictures of what went on during the ten
355
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:08.200
Offensive ended up on television and the American support for
356
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:10.559
the war, which wasn't very good in the first place,
357
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:16.279
got even worse. So so much for Vietnam And January
358
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:22.200
nineteen eighty six, I took a short visit to Spanish.
359
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:22.759
Town, Jamaica.
360
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:28.519
There was one of our residents there, a nun, sister
361
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:33.480
Ellen BUCCANENNI was there in a hospital in Spanish Town,
362
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:39.039
which was on the south coast of Jamaica, at about
363
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:43.319
I think twenty or thirty kilometers from.
364
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:46.440
The capital of.
365
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:48.759
Jamaica.
366
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:55.279
And just did you know, a lot of similar sort of.
367
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:01.200
Blunt trauma as you had described, both of you described
368
00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:06.920
in the countries where you worked, and uh, it was
369
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.799
just an interesting experience, I mean talk about security. I
370
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:20.119
had had flown into uh Montego Bay, rented a car,
371
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:26.799
drove across the northern coast of Jamaica to a place
372
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:32.640
called Oachra Rios, turned right and went across into down
373
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.960
into Spanish Town, and I was leaving, UH. Doctor buckan Enny,
374
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.079
who's again she was a nun, stuck her head in
375
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.000
the window of the driver's side of the car and
376
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:49.400
she looked at me and she said, if you hit something,
377
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:51.759
do not stop.
378
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.400
And the hair on the back of my neck stood up.
379
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:57.160
I drove back to.
380
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:02.440
Montego Bay, fortunately not hitting anything. But it really was
381
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:07.920
an interesting situation where there's none was telling me that
382
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.119
I needed to just keep going if I ran into
383
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.440
somebody or something else.
384
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.920
So one more, one more, one more quick.
385
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:25.559
In twenty sixteen, we had a Back in the nineties,
386
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:31.680
we had a resident named Jane Weaver, and Jane had
387
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:33.599
very strong religious beliefs and.
388
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:36.880
Ended up in.
389
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.480
A place called San Lorenzo in Ecuador, which is a
390
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:48.519
small town in on the on the coast the northwestern
391
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:57.960
coast of Ecuador, about eight miles from the Colombian border,
392
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:02.160
and it was part of the It was where the
393
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:06.839
drug the drug trade came down. But she was there.
394
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.559
It was there was a they had a walled in
395
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:15.480
area and operating room, and I went down there basically
396
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.799
to help her do a bunch of product ectomies.
397
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:19.640
Uh.
398
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:25.240
This was a real social impairment for someone to have
399
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:31.880
a product tumor, and they were pretty pretty extensive, impressive,
400
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:35.160
and these people walking around with these big, you know,
401
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.119
masses on the side of their face.
402
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:40.960
It was very uh uh.
403
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.440
It was just a very uncomfortable social situation. But we
404
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.279
did a lot of different surgery thyroid surgery, a lot
405
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:55.559
mostly had neck surgery, and uh it was it was
406
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:57.599
a very interesting experience.
407
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:00.640
Uh.
408
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:08.720
The again the security issue. Jane had done a procedure.
409
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.720
On a very small.
410
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:16.160
Ecuadorn woman and she was they were put to sleep
411
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:22.720
by a local anesthesiologist. The patient died on.
412
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:23.559
The table.
413
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:33.279
And her relative was basically an enforcer for a local
414
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:40.680
drug gang, and the local constable of San Lorenzo came
415
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.839
to the hospital one time and told Jane that this
416
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.039
guy was going to come after her because his relative
417
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:50.640
had died on the table. Wasn't her fault, it was
418
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:58.079
just I mean, I don't remember the details, and it
419
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:03.559
was very interesting seeing security issue. Fortunately, this guy ended
420
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:09.079
up going to jail and uh not surviving his his
421
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:16.359
his his his experience in jail. So that's that kind
422
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:16.920
of went away.
423
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:20.480
Okay, that's enough of that. What what don't.
424
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:24.880
Everyone everyone want to start with another question or bring
425
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.759
a thought up or us.
426
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:29.519
A bunch of things we can talk about.
427
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.960
Uh, one more quick thing about San Lorenzo. Jane has
428
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:40.400
a has a a There's a thing called a Latin
429
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:44.559
American Mission Board, which was an organization run by her
430
00:31:44.680 --> 00:31:51.799
brother that basically took Uh, get support, got the people
431
00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:58.519
that make make contributions and basically supported her activities in.
432
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:00.359
A doore.
433
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.680
But go ahead, Uh, Phil, I think you were gonna Yeah.
434
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.559
I'd just like to comment on a few observations that
435
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.599
were that I made while over in Kenya.
436
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:13.400
Uh.
437
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:18.759
You unless you really can't appreciate Western medicine until you've
438
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:23.440
gone over to Africa and see what the people there
439
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.799
U there is no there's For instance, we talk about
440
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:35.319
prophylactic procedures and diagnostic procedures such as colonoscopies and mammograms.
441
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.160
They're essentially non existent over there unless you are wealthy
442
00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:41.319
and can pay for them yourself.
443
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:43.920
That's true with a lot of treatments as well. So
444
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:46.559
unfortunately we see a lot of saw a lot.
445
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:52.920
Of advanced breast cancer for instance, uh and undiagnosed as well, UH,
446
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:58.960
colon cancer. The other issues for if you had in
447
00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:02.480
this country off of Joe cancer, you're probably you will
448
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.960
get chemo, radiation, therapy and surgery are more or less
449
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:07.960
depending on stage, et cetera.
450
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:10.839
Over there, you have most of the people.
451
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.400
That get SAVAGEO cancer there coming in with this phasia,
452
00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.039
they get a stint put in, they're sent home.
453
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:17.000
That's it.
454
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:20.920
No other treatment, and they're sent home essentially to die.
455
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:26.680
At least they can swallow. So it's just But what
456
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:32.000
is amazing is how appreciative these patients are of the
457
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:33.279
care that you give them.
458
00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:38.160
And it's remarkable. Really.
459
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:43.160
The facilities over there, as mentioned before, are somewhat limited.
460
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.000
The first time I went over there, I went I
461
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:49.160
had an X ray on a patient. The first day
462
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.599
I was there, went to.
463
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.279
The radiology apartments. I wanted to review with the radiologist.
464
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:56.720
The tech was there. I said, she said, what radiologist?
465
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:58.519
There were no radiologists.
466
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:02.279
Pathologists come in a couple of times a week to
467
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.279
review slides, so you know you've very and there were
468
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:15.000
no frozen sections. The really used ultrasound point of service
469
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.920
ultrasound to a great degree, much more than we were
470
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.880
using over here back at that time, because it was
471
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:25.119
much what we had to use, and le's and use
472
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:29.079
what you'd have. I had one patient. You don't just
473
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.000
order a bunch of tests. I had a patient come
474
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.639
in with it after being in an accident.
475
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:34.719
She had a.
476
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:40.159
Severe liver laceration, but not enough to require surgery. We
477
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:44.239
put her to bed, had a foli in where she
478
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.840
had bilious drainage from through they.
479
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:48.760
For a while it cleared up.
480
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:52.039
I examined her belly a couple times a day. It
481
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.760
remained pretty soft. She obviously had led into her belly
482
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:59.440
some but had stopped on its own. Watched her for
483
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.760
about five days, and then she went home. During that
484
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:06.519
time she had original hemoglobin and had one other hemoglobin done.
485
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:08.280
During the time she was in the hospital.
486
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:12.039
Over here, we'd have humo globe was every four hours,
487
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:17.280
et cetera, et cetera, repeat scans, et cetera. So it's
488
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:22.599
amazing what one can do with limited resources, and you
489
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:24.679
do the best you can do under those circumstances.
490
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:30.159
Yes, absolutely, I agree. In Vietnam and in nineteen sixty
491
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.320
eight and in January and February, I mean literally, there
492
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:36.920
was there was no infrastructure, there's no public health. We
493
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:41.280
didn't have an ICU, a burn unit, didn't have ventilators
494
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:44.199
or X rays, and you basically did what you could
495
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:49.039
do in the operating room. And after that, you know,
496
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:54.400
it was what it was. Another thing that happened there.
497
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:59.320
There was kind of unusual because we had these these
498
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.920
multiple bed wards, and as I mentioned earlier, there were
499
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:06.039
often two small Vietnamese.
500
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:06.079
In a bed.
501
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:13.239
If the individual and the families were in there helping,
502
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.920
you know, take care of the patients, feeding them and
503
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:21.559
doing things like that. If somebody died, their family would
504
00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.920
remove them and take them home. And I'm not exactly
505
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.280
you know what this was. This was the culture in
506
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:29.440
Vietnam at the time.
507
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:31.559
So when you made.
508
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:34.599
Rounds every day, you never knew who was going to
509
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:37.280
be there and you just did it was it was
510
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.039
a different experience, you know, every morning.
511
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.880
Jeane, Uh, yeah, I.
512
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.760
It was like the old level general hospital in the
513
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:58.239
sixties and seventies. But I think that this type of
514
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:04.800
experience is its extremely important for medical students and particularly
515
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:11.320
residence and particularly surgery residence, because it teaches them so much.
516
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:18.199
They can learn that they can operate based on their
517
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:24.559
hands and their and their brain, and they can really
518
00:37:24.679 --> 00:37:30.280
learn a lot. Not only that non versions can learn
519
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:35.639
a lot too, particularly taking care of diseases like malaria
520
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:47.840
and weird infectious diseases and age. It's amazing. I saw
521
00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:55.280
several times where they had age clinics in hospitals and
522
00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:58.679
we had Africans who were being treated for age, and
523
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:04.000
most of that medicine is being given by us as everybody.
524
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:11.360
They just don't understand how important usage was and how
525
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:14.960
important it still is. But unfortunately it's been disbanded. But
526
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:18.920
we had patients in Africa who are living normal life
527
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:24.159
expectancies who had AGE. One of the bad things about
528
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.880
dismantling AGE is going on right now in the Congo.
529
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:32.599
As you remember the last epidemic in West Africa, we
530
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:36.840
had an AGE team who were very highly specialized. He
531
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.800
knew how to take care of that type of infectious
532
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:43.599
disease and how to control it. Now in the Congo
533
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:49.039
that's not available, and if we're not careful, that's going
534
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:53.440
to spread outside of Africa. And one of the other
535
00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:58.400
things about AGE, if we don't help the Africans treat
536
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:02.400
these patients, going to see it starts spreading again, not
537
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:06.320
only from AGE, but we're also going to see resistant
538
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:12.079
TV spread and now we'll get to North America and
539
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.400
the rest of the world if we're not careful. And
540
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:24.039
unfortunately the world's experts have been dismantled. And I think
541
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:28.239
that that's a issue that nobody thinks about, at least
542
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.920
nobody in the administration's thinking about, and they don't realize
543
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:35.719
not how not just how important it is to the
544
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.800
Third world, but how important is also to America.
545
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:46.880
I absolutely agree with you about the issue of resident experience.
546
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.199
I was a thirty year resident in general surgery and
547
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:55.800
by the time I had finished two months of doing
548
00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:01.559
all kinds of trauma, gunshot, wounds, landmines.
549
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:02.159
Uh.
550
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:04.599
There was another There's.
551
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.760
Another really strange experience was.
552
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:12.800
The they went up and down the Mekong River and.
553
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:18.599
In sampans and boats, and they often had a large
554
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:23.800
outboard motor on the back. And some of these young
555
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:30.320
Vietnamese women who and I'm not talking about hundreds of them,
556
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:32.400
but there was about five or six of them in
557
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:37.679
the hospital, with long hair extending down, down, down, literally
558
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:39.840
down to their waist, would sit in the back of
559
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.920
the boat holding the you know, the stick driving the
560
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:48.000
outboard motor, and the pinwheel on the back of the
561
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:52.400
outboard motor would catch their hair and they were literally scalped.
562
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:56.840
I mean, it just ripped the hair off the top
563
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:59.519
of their heads. We put skin grafts on there and
564
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:00.679
you know, and.
565
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:01.960
They got got wigs.
566
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:07.480
But as a resident in a situation like that, when
567
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:12.920
I was finished, I had I had so much self confidence.
568
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:18.559
It was really interesting phil do you got some thoughts
569
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:18.960
about that.
570
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:23.679
One of the good things, by the way, that is
571
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:27.880
that is happening at Kajabi at least, and I think
572
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.320
a number of the other pat hospitals, is that they
573
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:35.880
have made partnerships with certain schools over here. The Kajabi,
574
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:39.000
for instance, Vannibeld has a long relationship with the hospital,
575
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:45.000
especially in the pediatric area and the orthopedic and they've
576
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:51.480
been sitting over orthopedic and pediatric training over there actually,
577
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:56.360
and for some time that's been real beneficial, I think
578
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.920
to the residents and students at Vanderbilt.
579
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.280
I'm sure that there are others.
580
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:03.599
I know that the fact that there are other schools,
581
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:07.519
of course that have similar relationships.
582
00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:08.039
With hospitals.
583
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:12.039
Low Melinda does that they've been doing it for a
584
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:16.360
long time. University Cincinnata has a program, and there are
585
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:21.320
multiple other programs. It's very interesting of the American college
586
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:25.320
resursions have become very interested in this, and they're trying
587
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:32.519
to get retired surgeons and medical schools going to third
588
00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:37.960
world countries and have residents roadsate through these hospitals, and
589
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:41.239
I think that's the phenomenal advantage. I think it's also
590
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:48.280
beneficial to have medical students go to the Third World countries.
591
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:52.960
And also I think it's important, it's really interesting to
592
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:56.559
get teenagers going on these trips. So I've had several
593
00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:00.559
teenagers to go on our team, and it really changes
594
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:03.360
their life and how they think about the world and
595
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:10.159
how they think about America, and they appreciate what we've got,
596
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:14.800
and then they learn to appreciate what it's really like
597
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:17.840
in the Third World. And you can't just watch a
598
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:20.559
movie and figure that out. You've got to be there.
599
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.000
Let me bring up another issue a little sort of
600
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:27.760
similar but often a little different direction. One of the
601
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:34.599
things I learned in Ecuador with Jane Weaver was how
602
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:41.480
beneficial the activities of supplies overseas was in that particular situation.
603
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:44.639
I don't know that it existed way when I'm in
604
00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:48.079
eighty six, when I was in Jamaica, and it certainly
605
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:58.519
didn't in nineteen sixty eight, but the supplies overseas provided
606
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:06.719
a lot of basically fundamental supplies too for the running
607
00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:09.960
of that hospital down there. And this was I think
608
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:14.039
there was started in ninety three by Norton Waterman and Eist.
609
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:15.840
Frank Miller had a role in there.
610
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:20.079
Yeah, and it exists today and a lot of I mean,
611
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:21.599
it just goes all over the world.
612
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:25.320
Well, one of the things that we've done on our
613
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:29.599
trips to Honduras is there's a lady in Bowling Green
614
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:33.360
that collects medical supplies, and then there's a lady here
615
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:36.400
in Campbellsville helps her, and then we go with some
616
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:40.880
people from South Carolina that they collect them.
617
00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:42.280
And for our.
618
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:48.639
Audience, you just can't imagine how much supplies in America
619
00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:53.480
that's wasted that can be used, but it's just thrown
620
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:59.960
out because the date has expired or some other reasons.
621
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.960
And this phenomenal amount of us.
622
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:07.840
And that's the stuff that ends up getting collected by
623
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.400
supplies over seas it's still useful and sending it over
624
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:14.159
there to different places.
625
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:18.639
I went, Yeah, when I went this last time to Kenya,
626
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:23.280
they're just starting to do laparoscopic surgery over there. Stopped
627
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:28.559
by supplies overseas, they had to committed amount of laparostopic
628
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:30.400
instruments that were perfectly good.
629
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:34.760
Why they were over there, I don't know.
630
00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:38.840
I collected a full duffel bag full of them, carried
631
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:41.719
them all the way to Kenya, and the hospital was
632
00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:44.800
very appreciative of that and also take you know, they
633
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:48.239
need super material, they needs just the basic stuff and
634
00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:52.159
anything you can do along that line also is very
635
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:52.920
helpful to them.
636
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:55.880
Way we do it in the Honduras of our group
637
00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:00.679
will usually send a container of supply us down to
638
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:06.400
Honduras and then on Guylmarca and around the end of
639
00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:11.719
the year, usually before Christmas, and that those supplies get
640
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:15.360
down there in the store force and then we use them.
641
00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:20.000
It's very interesting. The hospital I go to in Honduras,
642
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:25.760
they have four operating rooms. They're very modern modern ant seizure,
643
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:29.280
almost just like we've got at home, and you can
644
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:34.280
do laparoscopic surgery and it's almost equal to what we
645
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:40.840
have here. And this is so things are really progressing.
646
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:46.440
Another interesting thing that they're doing in Honduras. The people
647
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:49.280
are running up the place. Told me that they have
648
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.039
an or peach team that comes now and one of
649
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:58.159
the orpedic companies brings their representatives with the equipment and
650
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:02.840
they're actually doing total joint in that it's essentially an
651
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:08.840
outpatient surgery clinic, and so it's really amazing what's going on,
652
00:47:09.280 --> 00:47:11.280
how we're progressing now.
653
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:16.039
The operating room in San Lorenzo was also an outpatient
654
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:19.280
surgery clinic. There was no place for them to stay overnight,
655
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.559
or if they did, they just basically stayed in a
656
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.599
room next to the operating room and somebody had to
657
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:27.599
stay there and you know, take care of them. But
658
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:31.239
we literally had had to use a headlight because there
659
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:36.039
was no overhead lighting, and there was a multiple reuse
660
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:40.480
of all kinds of disposable equipment. And they did have
661
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:46.039
the bov and the bipolar because doing parotid surgery can
662
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:50.519
really be a nightmare without those, but they didn't have
663
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:55.440
any of the other issues with doing laparoscopic surgery. And
664
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:58.000
certainly I don't know what's going on there now, haven't
665
00:47:58.039 --> 00:47:59.360
been there since twenty sixteen.
666
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:01.719
It brings up a.
667
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:04.599
Good point that you make, and that is, uh, the
668
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.079
supplies that you get in the operating room, you really
669
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:11.719
get what you need and nothing extra.
670
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.800
You've used reusable drapes, no disposable drapes.
671
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:20.360
Yes, uh and uh uh and it's uh.
672
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:22.840
I know I had to do a large skin graft
673
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:25.800
on gentlemen with a UH.
674
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:31.679
I took a large tumor off of a dramatic fibrosarcoma
675
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:34.840
and it was a free skin graft that I took
676
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:35.480
off his thigh.
677
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:38.760
Uh and you know we're fine.
678
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:39.639
Uh.
679
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:42.400
So you just utilize what you can.
680
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:49.400
I I've had some interesting experiences, a couple other coming
681
00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:53.000
on one of them. We're talking about security. Most of
682
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:58.760
the places I've in there's no problem with Honduras. The
683
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:05.199
the c is run by Hondurans and they select the
684
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:09.519
patients and then they when we get there the first day,
685
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:12.079
we see him in the clinic and schedule them for
686
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:16.159
surgery and decide who needs surgery and who doesn't. But
687
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:21.599
there's a fence around that facility and they have armed
688
00:49:21.639 --> 00:49:25.119
guards there. But we've never had a problem. I've been
689
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:30.360
there about six or seven times, back in two thou
690
00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:37.519
and nine. No, it was twenty thirteen doctor Frank Miller
691
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:42.079
who's passed and I went to Haiti and that was
692
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.440
the only medical mission trip that I almost came home.
693
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:49.800
We talked about we decided to stay. But the situation
694
00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:56.119
in Haiti is really bad. The hospital we worked at
695
00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:04.440
had been owned by a Free Masters church and from Canada,
696
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:08.320
and they finally gave it up and turned it back
697
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:17.760
over to the Haitians and it was pretty crude. One night,
698
00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:22.440
doctor Milla and I got called down to the hospital
699
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:27.239
because of a gunshot wounds of the neck, and we
700
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:29.239
had to pick the patient up and put him in
701
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:32.159
just carry him over to X ray, just to get
702
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:37.079
a plane x ray, and we decided not to operate
703
00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:39.239
on the sky. We didn't think we could help him.
704
00:50:40.199 --> 00:50:42.320
But while I was there, I had a patient who
705
00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:48.320
has been very sick, and I asked the nurse through
706
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:52.400
a translator of how the patient was doing. They turned
707
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:56.440
all the lights off at night save electricity, and the
708
00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:58.719
nurse said that it was doing okay. Well, I got
709
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:02.400
my fife's light out and went over to see the
710
00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:04.320
patient and she was dead.
711
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:07.920
Well, let me give you I've got a four minute warning.
712
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:12.880
Let me make one more comment about about about security.
713
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:19.480
When we were in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive, we
714
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.000
were moved out of our living quarters into we bunked
715
00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:26.239
with the Air Force surgical team, and some of these
716
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:33.159
people went into the hospital at different times and they
717
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:37.719
end up we end up giving me a weapon. It
718
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:42.039
was an M fourteen, which is a World War two rifle,
719
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:48.719
and for about two days I would make rounds. I
720
00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:52.239
would go into the rounds, I'd put my M fourteen
721
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.159
against the wall and examine the patients and go from
722
00:51:55.400 --> 00:52:00.360
table to table to table. One of the things that
723
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:03.480
went on was the Viet Cong would often try to
724
00:52:03.559 --> 00:52:09.639
get into the hospitals because it was a sanctuary from
725
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:10.559
the helicopters.
726
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:13.840
And after a couple of days.
727
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:17.519
I realized that if I was walking around the wards
728
00:52:18.760 --> 00:52:23.079
with a with a rifle and some of these guys
729
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:27.440
came into the hospital, they would probably kill me because
730
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.760
I and I, you know, I'd never fired the thing.
731
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:32.039
I wasn't I know what I was going to do,
732
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:36.360
so it was just an interesting experience. I brought it
733
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:38.760
back to the place, our living quarters, and I left
734
00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:40.519
it there and gave it back to them when I
735
00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:45.719
when we left about about four weeks later. Now, uh, Paul,
736
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:49.719
what we've got about two minutes left. Let me give
737
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:52.559
you each an opportunity to make a couple of quick comments,
738
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:54.920
and then Paul's going to take us out. And again
739
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:57.000
I want to thank you Phil for coming on with
740
00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:00.320
Gene and I and talking about this. I hope this
741
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:04.400
is interesting to our listeners. But why don't you make
742
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:06.400
a comment or two and then we'll let change that
743
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:07.199
and then we're done.
744
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.039
Well, first of all, thank you for having me as
745
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:15.280
I mentioned earlier, I got much more out of this
746
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:19.079
and than I was able to give. It's a wonderful experience.
747
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:23.199
It gives me a chance really what it's like to
748
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:23.679
work with.
749
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.039
The people there. The other colleagues that we had.
750
00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:34.960
Who were African are wonderful, the nurses, just the orderlies,
751
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.360
and the physicians there. Now, many of the physicians that
752
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:43.039
I work with were trained through this pack system and
753
00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:47.119
they were just delightful to work with. But any missionary
754
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.280
work whatsoever, you give it yourself a little bit and you.
755
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:51.840
Gain so much more from it.
756
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:53.199
All right, thank you, Jane.
757
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:57.239
I agree with that you'll get lots more out of
758
00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:02.639
it than you give. And if people who are listening
759
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:06.440
here are civilians, you don't have to be a medical
760
00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:09.360
person to go on these trips. Sometimes they have construction
761
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:14.559
teams and other teams, or you can help out in
762
00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:20.159
the back of washing instruments, or even even let you
763
00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:24.199
scrub in and help sometimes too. But if you get
764
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:27.280
an opportunity to do this, I'd strongly recommend, And if
765
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:29.920
you've got a teenager that gets an opportunity to do it,
766
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:35.480
it will change their life, and I would strongly urge
767
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.880
you to try to get involved in something like this.
768
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:40.679
Who will really change your life?
769
00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:42.440
All right? Thanks changing Paul.
770
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:47.280
Bill, Thanks again for showing up and helping us out here.
771
00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:50.480
We're always struggling to get good radio programs on it,
772
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:56.079
and I think we got one today. And the special
773
00:54:56.199 --> 00:54:59.320
things to our listeners for tuning in before we go,
774
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:01.480
I'd like I can tell you about a new concept
775
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:05.800
that Forward Radio is developing. It's called collabor radio, and
776
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.760
it seeks to focus on coalition building, especially among public
777
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:16.079
service oriented nonprofits, governmental bodies, and other civic minded groups
778
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:19.519
throughout the community, in an effort to usher community radio
779
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.280
into the service of promoting a better community wide dialogue,
780
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:29.480
better networking, better collaborating, and better DEI here's what we're envisioning.
781
00:55:29.599 --> 00:55:32.599
We would offer our precious radio frequency as a shared
782
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:36.800
communications platform for various and diverse groups to come together
783
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:42.320
periodically and offer clarity and direction in resisting illegal abusive acts,
784
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:46.199
helping neighbors to help neighbors, giving voice to the disenfranchise,
785
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.199
and building a stronger sense of community. If you have
786
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.119
some ideas on how this concept might work, or perhaps
787
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:57.480
you might want to have your own program, just visit
788
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:01.800
Forward radio dot org. Remember we're all in this together.
789
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:04.679
This is Paul Hoppey, wishing you a wonderful rest of
790
00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:05.119
your day.