Collective Courage & Reimagined Leadership With Elena Armijo

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,360
Robert Kuang: Music.
2
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:11,820
Welcome to side by side, a podcast where
I Robert Kuang take you inside
3
00:00:11,820 --> 00:00:17,820
conversations with artists, creatives,
healers and warriors taking the charge
4
00:00:17,940 --> 00:00:19,560
in their transformational story.
5
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,960
Today's guest is Elena Armijo, a master
certified coach and former professional
6
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,280
opera singer who specializes in
executive and leadership coaching for
7
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:32,600
high performing clients.
8
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,400
She is the founder of the C suite
collective, an executive coaching agency
9
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:42,580
offering in depth, customized programs
for high performers, and she's the host
10
00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:46,840
of the collective corner, a podcast
where badass, inspiring and
11
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,360
compassionate conversations get to
flourish.
12
00:00:53,290 --> 00:00:57,400
Robert Kuang: issues with clients and
business leaders in 2025 and the way
13
00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:03,820
communities move forward during moments
of crisis and conflict. You can find
14
00:01:03,820 --> 00:01:11,950
more side by side episodes at side by
side podcast.podbean.com, and if you'd
15
00:01:11,950 --> 00:01:17,290
like to connect with me about my
services, please visit www dot Robert
16
00:01:17,290 --> 00:01:25,840
Kuang, home.com, it's a good time on
side by side every time Elena comes
17
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,880
back, and hopefully there will be many
more. For long time listeners, Elena has
18
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,590
been on this podcast before, where we
caught up and talked about our life,
19
00:01:35,590 --> 00:01:41,530
coaching, artistry, singing, what have
you. And now she's back after a little
20
00:01:41,530 --> 00:01:44,470
bit. So it's really great to see you
again. Elena,
21
00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:47,320
Elena Armijo: oh my gosh, thank you for
having me. It's always such a joy to
22
00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:51,520
come and talk to you. You're like, like,
a warm hug every time
23
00:01:53,170 --> 00:01:58,180
my whole nervous system relaxes when I'm
with you. So, oh, thank you. Thank you.
24
00:01:58,210 --> 00:02:01,180
Because I know sometimes we really get
into the weeds with stuff. But I was
25
00:02:01,180 --> 00:02:06,340
like, that's partially why we want a
good space for that as well. And since
26
00:02:06,340 --> 00:02:10,360
we last spoke, you know, LA has had some
interesting developments. So I'm always,
27
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,530
whenever I'm speaking to someone who I
know is from LA or living in LA, I want
28
00:02:14,530 --> 00:02:19,240
to say, like, let's catch up. How's LA
and what have you seen and experienced
29
00:02:19,270 --> 00:02:24,610
this year? Yeah, well, let's see. I
think the place to start is I just
30
00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:27,910
started my fourth year in LA, or maybe
I'm coming up on the end of my third
31
00:02:27,910 --> 00:02:31,930
year. I can't remember either way. It
still feels very new to me what I've
32
00:02:31,930 --> 00:02:34,870
been describing to people moving here
from the East Coast. I lived, you know,
33
00:02:34,870 --> 00:02:40,900
in the Brooklyn, Newark, New York area
for 14 years, and then my partner and I
34
00:02:40,990 --> 00:02:47,500
relocated to LA in 2021 and what I've
been telling people is, I really have
35
00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,550
been unsure if I love this city. You
know, I've moved I grew up in New
36
00:02:51,550 --> 00:02:56,200
Mexico. I lived in Seattle for three
years during, you know, living, living
37
00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,850
there during grad school. And I'm pretty
quick to adjust to places, especially
38
00:03:00,850 --> 00:03:03,550
being traveled through singing. You
know, there were a lot of different
39
00:03:03,550 --> 00:03:08,200
countries I visited and places that I
was at temporarily, so I don't tend to
40
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:14,410
have a hard time grounding into a place.
And for some reason, LA was difficult
41
00:03:14,410 --> 00:03:19,690
for me. I've really been fighting not
liking it here, and part of that was I'm
42
00:03:19,690 --> 00:03:24,100
learning the New York mindset, when you
bring it here and try to fit it in with
43
00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:27,580
LA, it just does not to work. LA is
like, we don't want that. We don't got
44
00:03:27,580 --> 00:03:31,840
place for that here. And I get that
that's it's really unfair to LA to bring
45
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,820
that mindset here. And yet, I was having
a hard time meeting people. I loved the
46
00:03:36,820 --> 00:03:41,320
land like I love the nature, I love the
water, I love the space. There's so much
47
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,820
space here that we didn't have on the
East Coast, right? And still, there was
48
00:03:45,820 --> 00:03:50,050
something inside me that was like
nagging, is this my place? Is this where
49
00:03:50,050 --> 00:03:54,460
we're going to be long term? And I
couldn't get a solid Yes. And then the
50
00:03:54,460 --> 00:04:01,540
fires happened, and that to me, I did
not expect to fall in LA during the
51
00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:07,090
fires, and that's actually what
happened. We watched people come
52
00:04:07,090 --> 00:04:12,340
together in communities and support each
other, just like people did during, you
53
00:04:12,340 --> 00:04:16,120
know, Sandy, Hurricane Sandy in New
York, and other big events in different
54
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,640
cities. And I'm surprised that it took
that, you know, a big event like that
55
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,600
for me to actually see the city. So I
think that's probably all on me. It has
56
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,670
nothing to do with LA, if I'm being
honest and more about my context and the
57
00:04:30,670 --> 00:04:35,560
way I view things, but I I really got to
see a side of people that that people
58
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,380
don't often lead with here, you know,
they don't lead with vulnerability. They
59
00:04:38,380 --> 00:04:42,790
don't lead with connection and
community, or at least not out loud, in
60
00:04:42,790 --> 00:04:45,970
circles. If you're not a part of those
circles, it's very it's very community
61
00:04:45,970 --> 00:04:50,710
oriented. If you're in community
circles, it was really special to see
62
00:04:50,710 --> 00:04:55,210
the whole city open up its heart and
embrace just supporting people that were
63
00:04:55,210 --> 00:04:59,350
affected by the fires. And that was it
didn't matter what income class you were
64
00:04:59,350 --> 00:04:59,950
or.
65
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,420
Where you grew up, or what, you know,
all the things that people were seeing
66
00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:06,900
in the news that don't live here, people
were on the ground and they were
67
00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:11,220
helping. And there's something about
that that just had me go, okay, I get
68
00:05:11,220 --> 00:05:15,180
it. These, these can be My people,
right? Like I and we tried various ways
69
00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:17,940
to help as well. But there was, there
were certain times where we tried to
70
00:05:17,940 --> 00:05:21,020
help that they had way too many
volunteers. It would have been nothing
71
00:05:21,020 --> 00:05:25,520
in the way. And so to me, again, these
were just signals that there's a lot
72
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,100
more here to learn and to embrace.
73
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,940
Robert Kuang: Yeah, thank you for
sharing that, because not being LA right
74
00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:37,340
now, although I did also recently make a
cross country move. So I think that's
75
00:05:37,340 --> 00:05:40,600
partially why I wanted to ask you about
that as well. People have a lot of doom
76
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,220
and gloom about both the fires and also
sometimes just la in general. Anyway,
77
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,400
whether it's the industries or the place
itself, actually somewhat similar to New
78
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,600
York, people talk about a certain
jadedness in these big cities that
79
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,980
attract a lot of people, and very
aspirational people at that. So thank
80
00:05:59,980 --> 00:06:03,900
you for sharing some of the community
experiences rather than maybe, like,
81
00:06:03,900 --> 00:06:06,900
more of, like, the headlines that people
tend to get first. Yeah,
82
00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:09,960
Elena Armijo: I just think, you know, at
the end of the day, people are people,
83
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,160
and even in a bigger city, they really
find their humanity during times of
84
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,600
crisis. Yeah,
85
00:06:15,660 --> 00:06:20,240
Robert Kuang: absolutely. I'm curious
what's been like a running theme in your
86
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,480
work that you've seen, let's say, maybe
in the last year, with the last few
87
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,660
months, certainly maybe we can start
there, particularly knowing that you
88
00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:30,620
work with a lot of women, a lot of
people in leadership. Generally, when I
89
00:06:30,620 --> 00:06:33,980
speak with coaches, there tends to be
like, if the issue comes up with one
90
00:06:33,980 --> 00:06:38,840
person, it tends to come up with a bunch
of people around the same time. So
91
00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:42,400
what's been like? The latest in your one
on ones and in your
92
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,900
Elena Armijo: work, the latest flavor
has been C suite executives that are
93
00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,520
going through immense change. So I think
a lot of that has to do with our time
94
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,680
period in our country. We were in an
election year last year, so that hold
95
00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:03,240
over from the change of government into
this year really impacts everyone in the
96
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:09,600
United States and really the globe, as
we're seeing now. So all of my leaders,
97
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:15,420
or people that are working on leadership
skills or expansion of how they lead or
98
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:22,160
who they want to be, in the face of it
has really changed course. And I would
99
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:27,620
say that it's less about developing a
skill and more about crisis mode and
100
00:07:27,620 --> 00:07:31,640
resilience. And I really thought that we
had kind of gone through that, you know,
101
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,480
we definitely went through that back in
2016 with George Floyd, and then we went
102
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,560
through it again with COVID in 2020 and
I thought, man, we've really learned
103
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,920
resilience as leaders. And now I'm
finding this last year, that we're being
104
00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,160
called to more. And, you know, there's
all kinds of reasons I think, I believe
105
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,840
that as a coach and a human myself, like
my own personal beliefs, but that's been
106
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,980
the theme for the year. Where can we
ground in quicker? Where can we bring
107
00:07:56,980 --> 00:08:02,340
heart quicker? Where can we get the team
mobilized together? Where community and
108
00:08:02,340 --> 00:08:06,300
trust occur. Trust has been a really big
word in my space for the last year with
109
00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:10,320
all of my clients, because a lot of
trust has been broken along the way. And
110
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,460
so while they're trying to lead these
big movements or industries or
111
00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:19,440
organizations, they're having to find
ways to source themselves quicker. And
112
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:25,040
that really is, I know it's a bit of a
context, but there, there is less time,
113
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,120
less physical hours, for them to do self
care the way they might have done when
114
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,840
it's not crisis mode. So we're really in
a lot of conversations about, what does
115
00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,740
it look like to take care of yourself
during crisis? That seems to be the
116
00:08:36,740 --> 00:08:38,480
theme for the year so far.
117
00:08:38,540 --> 00:08:42,100
Robert Kuang: Thank you for being
willing to share that, and to be kind of
118
00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:46,300
clear about it, sometimes in
conversation, we can spend a lot of time
119
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,740
our goal is to avoid certain things or
to minimize certain things, but then the
120
00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:55,480
conversation that we're having now is
we're in it now. You know, there's no
121
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,440
trying to avoid it or minimize it, it's
here. What's next? What's the next
122
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,260
decision? What's the next thing you got
to look at? Yeah, thank you for that
123
00:09:04,260 --> 00:09:05,220
honesty about which
124
00:09:05,220 --> 00:09:07,740
Elena Armijo: is different seasons of
leadership, right? Because it's not that
125
00:09:07,740 --> 00:09:11,280
these clients haven't worked on other
things in different years, or different
126
00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,200
styles of coaching that they have
brought forward, but it's, I think I use
127
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,300
this analogy on a client call a couple
weeks ago where, you know, I said, if
128
00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:25,280
you're the difference between a doctor
who works maybe in a hospital that is in
129
00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,420
one wing that isn't crisis mode, versus
a doctor that works in the ER and is
130
00:09:29,420 --> 00:09:33,080
always in triage. What's the difference
of self care that those people need? How
131
00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,400
do they train differently? What is their
mindset? What is their level of empathy
132
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,040
for themselves? When I use that
metaphor, my client got really clear,
133
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,420
like, Oh, this is triage time. This
isn't actually let me, let me do my
134
00:09:46,420 --> 00:09:50,740
normal mode of operation where I would
go slower. Or want this to go
135
00:09:50,740 --> 00:09:53,800
differently. We all want it to go
differently, but we are in triage. So
136
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,000
now what? Right? And that was a really
useful conversation for that client.
137
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,140
Robert Kuang: For you, what's been like?
The biggest. Illusion, or, let's say,
138
00:10:01,140 --> 00:10:04,920
maybe false narrative, even if they were
true, let's say once upon a time, but
139
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,120
now it's just simply, is not the case
anymore. Have you experienced anything
140
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,200
like that? Like almost a veil? Because
people have spoken about having that
141
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,300
experience since the pandemic,
basically, of experience of veils being
142
00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:24,020
lifted again and again, and having for
us to confront certain things, right? So
143
00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:29,600
I'm wondering if you've had flavors of
that in your personal development or in
144
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,700
your work of like, oh, this narrative
that I believed in has basically been
145
00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:35,720
dismantled, right?
146
00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:39,440
Elena Armijo: Yeah, I'll start with my
work first, because I think that's the
147
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,900
clearest one I have access to. I
remember when I gave a presentation at
148
00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:47,800
the acto Conference, which is a
beautiful organization for coaches to do
149
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,380
training and community. And I signed up
with a dear colleague of mine, Liz, who
150
00:10:53,380 --> 00:10:58,000
we went in and we trained some coaches
on the concept. And this, this was
151
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,340
probably back, I'm trying to think this
was back in 20, probably 2018 if I'm
152
00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:08,160
guessing, and we brought the idea that
context cannot be separated from lived
153
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,940
experience. And at the time, that was
kind of radical for the coaching
154
00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:16,560
industry, because the coaching industry
was leaning heavily on context is the
155
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:23,120
thing to roll with and shift in clients.
And there wasn't really any training out
156
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,680
there that honored lived experience side
by side with context. And so I remember
157
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:32,420
at the time how hard it felt to bring
that conversation forward and experiment
158
00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:35,180
with it, and I didn't know what I was
doing either. It's not like I had the
159
00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:38,060
answers, right? Like I'm over there
trying to figure out, like, okay,
160
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,420
there's something here, but what is it?
And now in 2025 you could not convince
161
00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:49,660
me at all that these can be separated.
They are one in the same. They are so
162
00:11:49,660 --> 00:11:53,740
important to our humanity. They are so
important in the coaching world and how
163
00:11:53,740 --> 00:11:59,500
we address our clients somatically and
through more diverse conversations. And
164
00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:05,340
they create so much empathy and healing
in the coaching container. And, yeah, I
165
00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:10,080
think that's a big, a big shift in 2018
I wasn't sure, and now I'm like, Whoa. I
166
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,220
can't even believe that was a
conversation back in 2018 so I think
167
00:12:14,220 --> 00:12:17,940
that's one thing that I would say has
drastically shifted. I think,
168
00:12:17,940 --> 00:12:21,620
personally, I've really been playing
with this conversation in my personal
169
00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:24,560
life, and this is deeply through my
partner. You know, a lot of the work
170
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:29,540
we're doing in our in our relationship,
we've been together nine years, and man,
171
00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:33,860
the span of that nine years looks so
different from where we started to where
172
00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:39,500
we are, which I imagine most people say.
But one of the things that I have been
173
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:45,100
really that, like the cloud has been
lifted from my eyes, is a lot of the
174
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:50,440
ideology around the feminism movement
and what it's caused in men and
175
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,880
disconnection in men, and how women are
not actually having a conversation about
176
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,140
who we can be responsible for, the
things that we require and ask of men In
177
00:12:59,140 --> 00:13:03,720
relationships, and I'm speaking from a
heteronormative approach, but I imagine
178
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,640
there's a lot of identity crossover that
exists in other relationships as well,
179
00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:14,160
which is, again, a brand new thing I'm
exploring, but I'm really curious where
180
00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:19,080
this concept of people, but especially
our men that we're seeing who have High
181
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,840
suicidal rates and are very lonely and
depressed, especially in the
182
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:29,180
heterosexual arena, like, what can women
actually be responsible for in that
183
00:13:29,180 --> 00:13:34,640
conversation? And it's tricky, right?
Because women are still getting
184
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,620
oppressed as well. We see that in in our
government. We see that in everyday
185
00:13:39,620 --> 00:13:43,900
life. We there's still a lot of things
that that women have to account for,
186
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:49,180
safety and, you know, being being aware
of things that are happening to them,
187
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,500
but for the people that have done work,
and especially the, I would say, people
188
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:58,060
now, and both outside of just men and
women, people that are aware and have
189
00:13:58,060 --> 00:14:02,520
worked on themselves and have grown and
have done conscious work in those
190
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,960
relationships, where can you actually
push the boundary of being heard and
191
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,860
listened to and held and connected? And
I'm super interested in that, because,
192
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,000
you know my partner, I'm very, very
lucky. He's done a lot of work, and he
193
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,720
is a safe place to explore that
conversation. And I realize that's a
194
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,040
privilege, and not everybody has access
to that, but it's been really eye
195
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:28,040
opening to me to see where women are
perpetuating things with each other and
196
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,060
with that then spill out into
conversations. And you know that that
197
00:14:32,060 --> 00:14:35,780
can get even more existential when I
think about women creating life, and if
198
00:14:35,780 --> 00:14:39,500
they're the people that give life and
are the mothers of the earth, you know
199
00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:42,820
what's what's actually going on. It kind
of feels like a conversation in 2018
200
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,040
it's like new and cloudy and not
distinguished, but I'm curious about it,
201
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,680
and I wonder if in another 10 years,
we'll be having a different
202
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:51,880
conversation. Yeah,
203
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,700
Robert Kuang: I wanted to go back to the
work part that you mentioned first,
204
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:58,840
because they were both so powerful to
me, but I always Yeah, so with context
205
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,640
for listeners, it. People talk about it
in different ways, but I always think of
206
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,380
it as your frame of reference, or like
you said, your lived experience, your
207
00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:13,260
internal narratives and your beliefs all
shape your context, which influence how
208
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:18,180
you choose to respond to certain things
and the choices you make, right? And I
209
00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:22,580
always struggled with that, because I
saw so much power in saying that's just
210
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,780
a context. That's just your context,
right? But I always it was very
211
00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:31,460
difficult to not make it feel like a
personal issue when I knew there was no
212
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:37,280
structural possibility about beautifully
said, Yes, does that make sense? So I
213
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,260
knew, like, you know, for example, the
hospital you work at the company you
214
00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:45,400
work for, there are certain things you
have to be clear about, right? And so
215
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,360
within coaching, we think of infinite
possibilities, but there are times where
216
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,340
I feel like in order to do that shift, I
had to dis identify from myself, which
217
00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:59,500
was just not possible. But also for
people who have tried for any reason,
218
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:03,780
it's a deeply painful experience, right?
Extremely painful. Yeah, yeah. It's like
219
00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:07,140
a lifelong failed experiment, or it can
leave you feeling that way, yes.
220
00:16:07,140 --> 00:16:10,260
Elena Armijo: And I actually think it's
why we're, we're, we're losing some
221
00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:13,920
people to coaching, right? Like, meaning
like people don't even want to entertain
222
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,480
coaching is when they don't see the the
ability to find themselves in a
223
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:23,060
different story or context that they
want to try on without leaving
224
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:25,880
themselves behind, then some people are
just out. They're out of the
225
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:31,220
conversation. And that, to me, is really
sad, because it could go another way.
226
00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:31,880
Yeah,
227
00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:36,440
Robert Kuang: absolutely. And I've tried
to hold the both and multiple things are
228
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,540
true, has been something of trying to
cultivate, but harder to kind of
229
00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:45,160
articulate sometimes, like you're
talking about and then second part about
230
00:16:45,220 --> 00:16:48,520
relationship of people of different
genders and things like that, obviously,
231
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,260
that's an ongoing conversation. It's
something that's deeply impacted me and
232
00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:57,340
my relationships for sure. So I guess my
overall question is, you know, I'm
233
00:16:57,340 --> 00:17:03,240
curious what you've seen, what's changed
for particularly women in leadership
234
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,340
over the years, how women in leadership
see kind of these issues, gender based
235
00:17:08,340 --> 00:17:11,460
issues, and things like that. And I
don't know if there's been change over
236
00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:15,240
the past few years, or just some things
that you feel like is more important now
237
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:16,140
about that, I think
238
00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:19,140
Elena Armijo: there has been change,
which is good news. I think if we look
239
00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:24,620
at an older generation, let's say the
80s or the 90s, of women that were in
240
00:17:24,620 --> 00:17:30,980
leadership positions, so C suite roles,
senior vice presidents, senior managing
241
00:17:30,980 --> 00:17:34,400
directors, like top of their
professions, right? Typically, there
242
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,520
weren't many of them. So there weren't,
weren't a lot in the room to begin with,
243
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,580
my perception, which, again, can just be
my lens, is that a lot of women from
244
00:17:42,580 --> 00:17:46,540
that era had to be a certain way to get
there. So there was, again, kind of what
245
00:17:46,540 --> 00:17:48,940
we're talking about in the coaching
conversation, where there was a
246
00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:55,060
distancing of themselves that had to
happen to take on more traditional
247
00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:00,180
leadership skills that would be valued
to get in the room. So kudos to those
248
00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:03,240
ladies, right? Because without them
going first, there would be no
249
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,960
opportunity now for what we've seen
shift. I really, I really want to
250
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,760
acknowledge that generation. And there
was a bit of an over swing, which is
251
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,420
what all happens in anything we're
trying to change, right? And what ended
252
00:18:15,420 --> 00:18:20,720
up happening is, in those spaces, all
all of a sudden, those women had to
253
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,520
experience some of the same issues that
other leaders had in those positions
254
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,720
that they'd never had an opportunity to
be confronted with and with the
255
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,400
overswing. We saw top down leadership.
We saw women on women being really hard
256
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,920
on each other. We saw women being more
and more disconnected from their
257
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,260
emotional center and not bringing
emotions into the workplace. Because,
258
00:18:44,260 --> 00:18:47,980
again, it was a survival technique. It's
how they got there. It was, it was what
259
00:18:47,980 --> 00:18:52,300
was having them win, right? So when the
over swing happened, I think we really
260
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:57,640
saw some of that breakdown of what I'm
talking about, connection emotional
261
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,840
leadership, connection to men or people
in those spaces that they were working
262
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,860
with. So what I love about where we're
at now is we have women that are in
263
00:19:04,860 --> 00:19:11,280
those spaces that have done a lot of
work around who they are, what they
264
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,600
believe emotionally, what are they
feeling? They're not making their
265
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,200
feelings wrong, but they're also not
necessarily just leading with feelings
266
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,060
right, which, again, the older
generation was in an either or
267
00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:28,520
conversation about that, yeah, yeah, for
sure. And which, you know, I get, it was
268
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,600
really hard. I think,
269
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,140
Robert Kuang: you know men too, for
sure. It's win or lose, black and white,
270
00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:33,680
yeah, all
271
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,440
Elena Armijo: of that, right? And I
think where we're at now is we're
272
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,200
starting to see a lot more nuance in
spaces like, I think about one of the
273
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,500
teams I work with, man, they're just
such a cool leadership team. There's
274
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:49,480
like there's 12 of them on the
leadership team. There so much diversity
275
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,620
on this team, with all the identity
markers you could think of exist on this
276
00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:59,920
team. And what I really love about that
is that there's an opportunity in that.
277
00:20:00,060 --> 00:20:06,660
At room now to have all voices heard,
emotion be present, but logic and
278
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:09,960
reasoning be present as well.
Accountability be present. Because this
279
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,260
is another thing that I've been I've
been looking at a lot as a woman, is
280
00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:17,880
what does accountability look like for
us if we were taught that not having it
281
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,520
was okay and we could get to the top
through other means. So I'm really
282
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,080
excited about the shift that I see in
those spaces, because they're playing
283
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,280
and through playing, there's innovation
and creativity, and there's more
284
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,020
possibility than we've ever had for
people to feel seen and heard and be
285
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:41,920
seen and heard, but to experience what
that creates at a high level, so I don't
286
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,620
know where it's going to take us. I
think there's a big backlash happening
287
00:20:44,620 --> 00:20:49,120
for that right now. I think people are
scared, because what we're my my belief
288
00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:55,000
is, what's happening in our country is
it's the last stand of the old power,
289
00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:59,980
right? It's the last resistance to the
traditional way of leading, getting
290
00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:05,640
scared and going, No, we want it to be
the way it always was. And I just, I
291
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,440
think there's so many more people that
know it can go differently now that it's
292
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,200
just a much, a much richer conversation.
I
293
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,020
Robert Kuang: love your connection.
You're connecting between play and
294
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:20,840
innovation, because that's such a that's
such a cool thing to tap into, if you
295
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,620
can in, you know, coaching, or in client
work and whatnot, and also just in
296
00:21:24,620 --> 00:21:28,580
yourself. Sometimes I think it's just
the way we've been conditioned. We tend
297
00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:33,200
to think the best solutions tend to have
the most challenge, perhaps, or is the
298
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,880
most challenging for us. But sometimes
it's, how can we get the most support,
299
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:42,160
right? How can we have fun? How can we
have safety and pleasure and even
300
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,180
comfort, which is not really always the
priority inside of like coaching
301
00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:50,980
conversations. If you've tried every
possible possibility that you can
302
00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:56,200
imagine, it may be time to sit down and
drop all of that and play and imagine an
303
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,920
experiment. Or one of my favorites these
days, is to talk to somebody, talk to
304
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,980
somebody with a different perspective,
yeah, yeah,
305
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,940
Elena Armijo: yeah. And I really mean
that, like, I love that. You said that,
306
00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:12,720
but let's highlight that, talk to
somebody with a different perspective,
307
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,000
and talk to listen, right? And I don't
mean I'm not saying, like, you know, I
308
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,220
would consider myself a moderate
liberal. I am not a far left liberal,
309
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,180
probably more moderate in general than
anything. And when I talk to my liberal
310
00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:28,880
friends, I'm like, when's the last time
you sat down with somebody who's a
311
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,960
Republican and actually listened to
them? Right? I think that's and it goes
312
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,620
for both sides of the street. Since
we're kind of in a binary country, even
313
00:22:36,620 --> 00:22:39,920
though the independent party is really
trying to have a voice in the middle,
314
00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:44,920
that, to me, is what we've lost in
unity, is listening and being able to
315
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,420
come to the table and respect the other
side while keeping our beliefs and
316
00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:54,520
creating a solution for all. When I,
when I talk about deib Right now, I've
317
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,180
been, you know, my roots have been in
dei be work for a while now, especially
318
00:22:58,180 --> 00:23:03,300
in the coaching world. And I have always
said all means, all that means all. That
319
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,720
means every single person, whether you
like them or not, whether you think that
320
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:13,080
they are evil or light. All means all so
if, if we really believe that, who are
321
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,400
we going to be about it from that, that
standpoint, and sometimes people just
322
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,860
get so afraid that they forget that they
forget that they want to they can expand
323
00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:23,660
and have a different conversation. What
do
324
00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:25,820
Robert Kuang: you think? And this is one
where I was like, There's no right
325
00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:29,300
answer, totally. But what do you think
is the best way to move forward when
326
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,820
there is a lack of agreement?
327
00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:36,680
Elena Armijo: I think that we are about
to see the biggest revolution of what
328
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:43,360
happens when people can put down their
armor and get to humanity again. I don't
329
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:46,480
know, you know, I don't know what it's
gonna look like. I think it might be
330
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,140
really hard before it's really good, but
I do believe it will be really good. I
331
00:23:50,260 --> 00:23:53,260
think we're gonna have to go through a
lot, and a lot of pain is going to
332
00:23:53,260 --> 00:23:59,260
emerge before people can actually bring
forward the most authentic version of
333
00:23:59,260 --> 00:24:04,980
their voice to be a collective. So I
actually think that's the solution. Is,
334
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,240
what would it take to be a collective
instead of what group wins, what group
335
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,800
doesn't? How we make it fair for
everybody? I think fair is a good
336
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,280
conversation, but the but the higher
level conversation is, how do we all
337
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,800
live together and be a community? So
there's been community that's been lost.
338
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,400
I don't have a specific way that goes. I
think it can be created from many
339
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,660
different ways. If that's the
commitment, yeah, but I don't hear that
340
00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:33,380
being the commitment. In our country,
there's lots of other commitments
341
00:24:33,380 --> 00:24:38,960
floating around, but a commitment to
unity and cult cultural community seems
342
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,200
to be missing right now. So that would
be where I point everybody is, what? If
343
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,900
that was the highest commitment, then
what? Yeah,
344
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,020
Robert Kuang: when you say, be
vulnerable with each other, I also hear
345
00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:54,280
maybe dropping the ego a little bit.
There have been often this happens all
346
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,340
the time that comes up in coaching,
which is, we get caught up in
347
00:24:57,580 --> 00:25:03,360
situations, arguments or discourse. Is
that is more built on ego than actually,
348
00:25:03,420 --> 00:25:07,500
you know, anyone having a positive
outcome out of it. You know, it's not
349
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:13,200
even about sometimes more willing to
follow the ego and just ignore the pain
350
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,820
that is causing us and everyone around
us. Yeah. So definitely very much
351
00:25:17,820 --> 00:25:22,880
aligned with you about what does
inclusivity look like? What does unity
352
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,900
and safety look like? What does a strong
nation look like? We're having to have
353
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:31,640
some very tough conversations around
that everyone is complicit in some ways.
354
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:36,200
So So in thinking about, you know,
disagreements and agreements that just
355
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,660
come up as a part of life, I'm curious
for you, what are some important points
356
00:25:40,660 --> 00:25:46,060
in your life where you were maybe faced
with a no or had to say no. How do you
357
00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:50,080
know when to say yes or no? Thinking
back to those moments of No, I
358
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,080
Elena Armijo: think it always comes back
to my values, which can be tricky,
359
00:25:53,140 --> 00:25:57,100
right? Because you can convince yourself
your value is anything in the world like
360
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:02,040
your values are, you know, integrity and
love and those are my values, but when
361
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,600
they're used as a weapon, that's where
it gets a bit sticky, right? So when
362
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,500
I've had to say no to something,
honestly, it's the collective mindset
363
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:15,180
I'm thinking recently of something with
my company, where, where I was thinking
364
00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:18,540
about moving it forward into something
else. Or I should say, it's not my
365
00:26:18,540 --> 00:26:23,420
company. It's actually the collective
company, the TCC, we recently have
366
00:26:23,420 --> 00:26:27,560
expanded, and now we all, we are all
owners or the partners that have chosen
367
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,760
in our owners and are becoming a true
collective, which is what it was born to
368
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,520
do. It was always meant to be that way.
And the thing I noticed is that when
369
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:41,980
there was a disagreement in the space
about who we are, what we're going to
370
00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:46,060
be. The place that had me say no and
keep moving was when there was a
371
00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:51,460
detriment to more people, to the entire
collective. So again, if the commitment
372
00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:55,480
is the collective right, then it was
holding that commitment through some
373
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,180
really tough conversations. And that's
not easy, because there's pain, and
374
00:27:00,180 --> 00:27:05,940
people get hurt. And as a leader, you
know, did some wonky stuff around like
375
00:27:05,940 --> 00:27:11,040
armoring up and being defensive myself.
And I learned a lot that that I still
376
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,360
really trusted the vision and and I'm
still trusting that. I don't know we'll
377
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:19,860
see where we end up, right? But that's,
that's the path I chose. And what I
378
00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:25,880
notice is, as long as I can remember
that my way is not the right way, but
379
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:32,180
it's a way that I choose, then more can
arise. But if I'm choosing it because my
380
00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:40,280
way is the right way, or I need you to
agree with my way, to change your mind
381
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,220
or your opinion, or your lived
experience, that's my telltale sign that
382
00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:49,780
my ego is involved. And this is not
actually a conversation that's useful
383
00:27:50,260 --> 00:27:56,260
for the commitment. Yeah, so I think
I've been that's kind of been my check
384
00:27:56,260 --> 00:28:02,280
in with myself. And then, I mean, most
recently, you know, I have ADHD and I
385
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,180
didn't know that. Yeah, I Well, I
didn't. I'm 44 and I didn't know it till
386
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:12,840
I was like 40 I just, I'm learning about
it too. And and one of the things that I
387
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:18,660
know about my ADHD is that if I don't
actually take care of myself, which
388
00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:22,280
sometimes looks like slowing my brain
down. Sometimes it looks like letting my
389
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,600
brain run right like going out for a
walk and listening to a podcast and
390
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,720
listening to the birds and talking to my
dogs and doing all the things at once
391
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,400
like that. Sometimes that can be really
fueling for me, and sometimes meditation
392
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,940
and slowing down, which I hate
meditation, I got to just be honest,
393
00:28:37,940 --> 00:28:43,420
like I do it and I and I commit to it 60
minutes a day right now for the last
394
00:28:43,420 --> 00:28:47,200
like seven weeks, and man, it's a
struggle to get on that map. For me, I'm
395
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,980
not one of these people that loves it
and enjoys it and can sit there when I'm
396
00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:57,160
in it. I I understand the benefit for my
soul and the connection with spirit, and
397
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,460
when I miss it, I can tell that I've
missed it because I'm not clear of
398
00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:05,340
focus, but I don't love it, so even
something like that, right as an example
399
00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:11,640
of where am I willing to choose from
commitment, instead of enrolling myself
400
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,120
to love everything about what I see or
what I believe? Yeah,
401
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,860
Robert Kuang: interesting. That's very
like neutral, detached of you, almost
402
00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:23,180
like I don't have to love it, but I'm
committed to it, and I know why I'm
403
00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:28,280
doing it. Basically, yeah, I'm clear.
Yeah. There's almost like, you know, not
404
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,160
to get too woo, woo. But there was
almost like, then your emotions can be
405
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,800
whatever it needs to be. You're already
clear, right?
406
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,740
Elena Armijo: Yeah, which was a big deal
for me, because there's parts of myself
407
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:40,600
that I don't love that I've been trying
to change for my whole life, instead of
408
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,100
just letting them exist and be okay,
right? Sure, yeah, we also that's part
409
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:48,460
of a practice of that is, Can I, can it
just be okay that I don't love it,
410
00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:52,840
Robert Kuang: right? Sometimes that's
very freeing. Yeah, I
411
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,640
Elena Armijo: felt so it certainly gave
me the the innovation that I needed to
412
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,880
take it on, because before. In my life,
I needed to love it, to do it. And that
413
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,200
was just like a losing game. I was never
going to get on the mat from that place.
414
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:09,660
Robert Kuang: That's so true, because,
you know, it's almost like, what am I
415
00:30:09,660 --> 00:30:14,160
doing this for? What do I get out of it,
which is such a transactional way of us
416
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,020
thinking about our daily lives and what
we choose to do, right? But also, like
417
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:24,680
an hour, holy cow, I know. I don't know.
For someone who's like, I'm in deep
418
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,640
struggle. I was like, two hours a day,
babe, I don't know. Maybe you're not
419
00:30:30,980 --> 00:30:33,440
Elena Armijo: that's true. Somebody was
like, You need to be on the map for
420
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,340
three hours. I would be absolutely not.
So
421
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:45,520
Robert Kuang: absolutely, yeah. And is
it just curious? Is it like, seated, or
422
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,920
are you someone who's like, you know,
like a walking meditation? Is
423
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:48,460
meditation?
424
00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:51,160
Elena Armijo: Oh, yeah, no, seated. It
has to be seated and focused, because
425
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,620
otherwise my brain will focus on other
things, right, walking around. So, so
426
00:30:56,620 --> 00:30:57,760
for me, it's seated, yeah,
427
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,140
Robert Kuang: but it's also so true, you
know, my partner has ADHD, and, you
428
00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:04,800
know, sometimes it's like, what are the
kids say? Bed, bed, rot, whatever. Brain
429
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,180
rot. Oh, yeah. They're like, I need to,
like, I don't want to, like, engage with
430
00:31:09,180 --> 00:31:13,680
something intellectual right now.
Please, let me give me my bubble. And
431
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,060
then other times, their way of resting
is like, I'm gonna knit like, three hats
432
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:22,220
this weekend. And it is genuinely
relaxing. Yeah, you know what? I mean.
433
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,560
It's just like thing and and it's just
allowing noticing your rhythm and
434
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,980
actually being okay with it in some
ways, like I've noticed
435
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,860
Elena Armijo: that's beautifully said,
because I really feel like it's not only
436
00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:37,640
being with your rhythm, it's allowing
your rhythm to be great, like, I'll, I
437
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,820
won't say crazy, it's not crazy, but
different. Yeah, right. Like I craved
438
00:31:42,820 --> 00:31:46,300
for it to be consistent for so long,
because then it meant I I could control
439
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:51,340
it, and I knew who I was and I was
consistent for other people. And only
440
00:31:51,340 --> 00:31:54,700
recently have I been like, this is not
going to be consistent, and that can be
441
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:59,440
okay, and as long as I honor whatever
shows up in the moment, you know, in
442
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,460
alignment with my values and not, you
know, being a crappy person in the
443
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:07,320
world, that that's more loving to me
than trying to make myself a certain way
444
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,160
to to adhere to, like the norm, the
center norm. I'm
445
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,180
Robert Kuang: curious because you are.
You're a vocalist. You're an opera
446
00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:19,680
singer. Yeah, even the way you speak, I
can hear it when I was editing our last
447
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,380
podcast conversation. Oh yeah, you had
the most even breathing of my life, and
448
00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:28,880
it was audible. That's literally just
the waves. I was like, Oh my gosh, this
449
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,580
person has practiced breathing, even
breathing for a long time. Yeah. Like,
450
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:38,480
you were just so good with that. And in
any case, you know, I think right now,
451
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,160
I've noticed, particularly for, let's
say younger folks, but lots of people,
452
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,420
you know, there's a fear of speaking
out. There's already a fear about
453
00:32:46,420 --> 00:32:50,020
censorship, let's say that's been coming
up more and more, yeah. But then
454
00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:53,740
traditionally, historically, speaking
out, public speaking has always been,
455
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:59,140
like a pretty nervy thing for most
people, right? And so I wanted to ask
456
00:32:59,140 --> 00:33:02,880
you, just like, I suppose, tips and
tricks or just like your perspective
457
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,200
around how can people get comfortable
with speaking up? You know, the thing
458
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,020
is, even when they don't want to,
because another consequence of not
459
00:33:10,020 --> 00:33:14,280
speaking up is just complete
disengagement. If no one speaks up in a
460
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,460
group session, nothing happens exactly.
461
00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:22,820
Elena Armijo: Well, the tips and tricks
are nervous system regulations. So when
462
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,360
I used to get on stage, I used to
squeeze my hands and dig my nails into
463
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,860
my hands, because it reminded me that I
was alive, or that I could feel my hands
464
00:33:30,860 --> 00:33:35,060
and that I was there before I took a
step on stage. Same thing when I was
465
00:33:35,060 --> 00:33:40,100
actually on the stage, speaking or
singing, I would feel my feet. It was
466
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:44,140
constant, like sending breath to my
feet, and all of that was just resetting
467
00:33:44,140 --> 00:33:48,880
my nervous system to be able to ground
it into the ground physically wherever I
468
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,920
was. Because when I get nervous, I tend
to lift out of my body and come from
469
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,060
just my head and disconnect from my
body. So I think the first step is
470
00:33:58,060 --> 00:34:01,260
noticing, what does your body actually
do when you're afraid? Because
471
00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:05,820
everybody's body is different, and you
might need different things. But if
472
00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:09,840
you're disconnecting just some ways to
actually ground your body again, if
473
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,440
you're feeling too heavy in your body,
then we need to do the opposite. We need
474
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,340
to actually, like, send the beam of
light up through your head, right to the
475
00:34:17,340 --> 00:34:21,680
to the universe, or different different
modalities that have you lift your body
476
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,420
out of the ground instead of sinking
into the ground. So I think the tips and
477
00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:30,980
tricks are different based on what
you're doing. I think Breath, breath, to
478
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:34,340
me, is the most magical thing we have on
this earth, outside of herbs for
479
00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:40,160
medicine or Western medicine or food,
any of that can support us in our
480
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,140
nervous system. But breath is the one
thing you have that you have instantly
481
00:34:44,740 --> 00:34:49,840
attainable to you while you're living,
and breath cleans out so much, it cleans
482
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,080
your blood, your blood, literally in
your body, the blood oxygen cleans
483
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,580
itself out when you're breathing. And
most of us don't know this, but you tend
484
00:34:57,580 --> 00:35:03,120
to walk around using only 20% of your
breath. Capacity as a human so it's only
485
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:08,400
people like singers or athletes or
people that are needing more breath to
486
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,640
create something that understand or get
the awareness that there's so much more
487
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,700
breath available to us than we know,
because you don't actually need a lot of
488
00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:23,060
breath to live walking around every day
in life. So I would say to people that
489
00:35:23,060 --> 00:35:27,680
are nervous around speaking out, explore
how much breath you actually have to
490
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,240
ground your body or to expand your
lungs, or to do square breathing or
491
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,520
tactical breathing from the military to
reset your nervous system. Because
492
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,160
breath is key in any sort of
vocalization. It's actually the thing
493
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,600
that makes your vocal cords work. It's
not your vocal cords, right? It's the
494
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,280
breath that's going through your vocal
cords that makes them ring and sing and
495
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,260
speak. So So breath is really magical,
and I don't think it's enough credit.
496
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,360
You know, in the world, I
497
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,200
Robert Kuang: think I've had about the
same amount of conversations with
498
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,340
vocalists, as I do with like, like
Buddhist or meditation teacher about
499
00:36:05,340 --> 00:36:09,480
breathing because they're both they're
both super vital, because there's
500
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,620
something about the musculature of like
we're in our body, but I think there's,
501
00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:17,580
like, an intangible spirit as it's
attached to our voice, and what we think
502
00:36:17,580 --> 00:36:24,800
and feel is such an important part of us
to to nurture. And yet, I see, you know,
503
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,460
you know, my partner is teaching in
university now, and there's just a lot
504
00:36:28,460 --> 00:36:34,160
of disengagement as a result of just
people not using their voice. I think
505
00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:37,340
opera and singing is one breakthrough.
And I've also heard, you know, for
506
00:36:37,340 --> 00:36:41,320
collaboration, learning how to
collaborate and have those skills do
507
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,240
some chamber music. So again, the arts
and humanities for me, you know, find
508
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:48,100
the breakthrough chair. Yeah? Well,
yeah, I
509
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:50,440
Elena Armijo: wanted to answer the
second part of your question, because I
510
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,040
think it's really an important which is
the speaking out, right? Yeah, when
511
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,800
we're afraid. So the the way that I have
been thinking about this question is
512
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,260
that it's exactly what you said. Not
speaking out costs you your dignity and
513
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:08,340
your soul in the long run, right? If
you're swallowing something or you're
514
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:15,360
you're staying small to stay safe. On
one hand, there is a physical safety
515
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,740
aspect of not dying, like speaking out
and not dying. So I think you got to
516
00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:23,060
choose who you're going to be in this
world, and what that will cost your soul
517
00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:28,280
when you are taking your last breath in
life. And that's a tall order. It's a
518
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,500
large ask, and it's a privilege to ask
for some you know, for those of us that
519
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,520
that have the ability to even do that, I
was recently on a call with my coach. I
520
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,440
think this was like, in January, right
after the elections, and I was like,
521
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,220
spinning out. I was like, this is going
to get bad, and people are going to get
522
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,020
deported, and people are going to get
put in prison and disappear, and people
523
00:37:50,020 --> 00:37:53,200
are going to like, like, it's just going
to it's going to get really, really bad,
524
00:37:53,200 --> 00:38:00,360
which is my way of processing, the way
that my my brain, not my body, likes to
525
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,140
work is to think of the worst scenario
so I can be prepared. That's my version
526
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:08,040
of safety, right? It's not necessarily
healthy, but that's that's what I do
527
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:12,420
when I'm afraid. What I had in my
conversation with her was, okay, let's
528
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:16,920
play the worst scenario out. My business
is taken from me. I'm imprisoned. All my
529
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,820
rights are taken away. I'm living as a
servant to this to the government, like,
530
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:26,300
let's just play that scene out for a
second while. I don't wish that for
531
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:30,440
anybody. You know. The question that she
asked me, which I think was really
532
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,940
brilliant to work with me in my fear,
was, Well, who else would be in that
533
00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:39,320
room? And when I thought about who else
would be in that room beside me, like
534
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:44,380
all of the people in history who have
been imprisoned or locked up or murdered
535
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:49,060
or their lives taken away for what they
believe. I was like, oh, that's actually
536
00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:52,360
the company that I would want to be at
company with. Like, I'd want to be
537
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,800
sitting in a jail cell with those
people. And if, you know, if, if that
538
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,440
leads to death, you know, can that be a
so be it conversation from commitment
539
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,240
and courage, and again, I I struggle
with this conversation publicly, because
540
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,020
it's a bit of a martyrdom complex as
well, and I can easily dip into
541
00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:13,680
martyrdom. I don't think that's what I'm
trying to say, but, but it certainly
542
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:19,320
helped me ground in my commitment and my
values to go, Okay, I'm clear. I'm clear
543
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,420
where I sit, yeah, without the fight and
the rage, and it doesn't mean that I
544
00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:26,960
would fight and hurt other people, but I
certainly won't silence my voice.
545
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,440
Robert Kuang: No, absolutely not. It's
so interesting. I've never heard someone
546
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,220
talk about envision who else might be in
that scenario with you, even if it's a
547
00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:39,860
crisis scenario, it's just another way
to get outside of yourself, and you're
548
00:39:39,860 --> 00:39:44,500
also like your bubble of fear for a
minute already about imagining something
549
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,640
in the future, perhaps right, and to
ground yourself and like what the
550
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,600
reality would be. The reality is, if
you're going through a crisis, there are
551
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,960
many, many people who are experiencing
the same thing, and therefore you are
552
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,060
not alone. Things can happen out of
that. So thank you for sharing that. I
553
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:06,180
have a, I guess, not easy, another one
that I know people sometimes like to
554
00:40:06,180 --> 00:40:10,080
dodge or but these, you know,
conversations around money and finance
555
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,760
and material resources, like, it's a,
it's pretty important for coaches to
556
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,040
navigate that with, you know, in our
work, I'm curious lately, because it's,
557
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:24,860
it always happens around times of
uncertainty. What conversations look
558
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:30,140
like right now for people around money
and finances and just overall, kind of
559
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,040
just curious about your perspective
around that right now? Yeah,
560
00:40:34,580 --> 00:40:37,460
Elena Armijo: I'll speak from the lens
of being a coach rather than my clients,
561
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:40,760
because I think clients, depending on
their industry and where they are, they
562
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:45,160
might be in different conversations
around that, but in general, as a coach,
563
00:40:45,220 --> 00:40:49,000
the way that I've approached money, and
I think has been a really successful way
564
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:55,420
to approach it, is that the work works,
and if I trust my work, then everything
565
00:40:55,420 --> 00:41:00,840
else will fall in line. So it is a big
trust piece with me, in my in the
566
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,680
building, in my business. And I launched
my business in 2015 so this is actually
567
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:10,020
my 20, my 10 year anniversary. That's
right, as a coach. And so when I
568
00:41:10,020 --> 00:41:15,900
launched, I just, I just did the work. I
took as many calls as I could, I coached
569
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:21,200
as often as I could. I remember charging
$5 for a cup of coffee when I first
570
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,580
started coaching versus where I am now.
I'm at the top of the market as what
571
00:41:25,580 --> 00:41:29,420
coaches make. I would say I'm definitely
in the top, like 3% of what coaches make
572
00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:34,640
in the world. What I notice is that we
are in a business that no matter what's
573
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,240
happening in the world, coaches are
needed. So there is some privilege in
574
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:43,600
that, right. Not all jobs are like that.
And I really believe that no matter if
575
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,800
times are good or times are bad or times
are in between, coaching is a good
576
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:52,420
industry to be in if you can really
trust the work works. So that's that's
577
00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:57,760
number one. Number two is diversify. I
meet a lot of coaches who want to go
578
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:03,240
down a road with one niche, and while I
completely respect and honor that that
579
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:08,400
might be who you love to work with me
too. I have my my lane that I love to
580
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:14,100
operate in, I'm always looking to
diversify my business, because I believe
581
00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:18,660
just in any business diversification,
just like I believe in communities and
582
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:25,460
collective and different voices and
rooms makes it a much more stable and
583
00:42:25,460 --> 00:42:31,160
innovative and creative practice in
business. So what that looks like for me
584
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,600
is looking at ways I can partner with
people that are other coaches in the
585
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,100
world. It looks like all different types
of clients I don't I still have sliding
586
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:43,720
scale slots for people that I love to
work with and can't necessarily afford
587
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:48,220
me. I love working with innovators and
creative people. I love working in
588
00:42:48,220 --> 00:42:51,460
industries I don't necessarily agree
with, right? Like that's another way to
589
00:42:51,460 --> 00:42:58,780
diversify my portfolio. As a coach and I
love I've just started recently to get
590
00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:05,880
interested in boards and investing in
businesses I believe in. So I think you
591
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,320
got to think multi dimensionally when it
comes to the energetics of money.
592
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,640
Because if it's just transactional, like
we were talking about everything else
593
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,620
today, it's a it's a very limited game
that you're playing with the energy of
594
00:43:19,620 --> 00:43:22,880
money. And I've always believed that. I
think I've been pretty lucky, because my
595
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:28,580
father instilled some good money habits
from when I was young, and then through
596
00:43:28,580 --> 00:43:32,600
my own growth, I've been able to expand
what money means to me and what the
597
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,340
energetics of it are, and I've been
allowed to play with it from that lens.
598
00:43:37,820 --> 00:43:43,420
So not everybody has that opportunity,
but you you can look at how you're
599
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:48,820
holding money and the diversification of
what you do have, whether it's $5 or
600
00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:52,720
more, and see what you can create with
it.
601
00:43:52,780 --> 00:43:55,600
Robert Kuang: I think it's such an
important conversation inside of
602
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:01,560
coaching, conversations about like, the
way you spend money, the way you make
603
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,760
money and the way you save money, these
are all such important ways to look at
604
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,020
yourself and the way you're being and as
much as there are, you know, like we
605
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:14,580
mentioned earlier, there are realities
and structural things in place. But I do
606
00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:20,300
try to remind people that prices and
dollar values are man made. They always
607
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:26,960
have been. And the other thing is, you
know, like a positive profit margin can
608
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:32,180
look like many different numbers, and it
can still be a positive outcome compared
609
00:44:32,180 --> 00:44:36,680
to the way it was before. So you don't
necessarily, it's not necessarily a
610
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:42,040
failure to say you didn't hit an
exorbitant profit margin, right? But,
611
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,600
but also, there's a lot of
intentionality behind why it may be
612
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,680
meaningful to aim for a positive goal
like that, even if it's in terms of
613
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,460
materials. Because then you get to I do
notice, you know, even if people are
614
00:44:54,460 --> 00:44:59,080
saying like, ah, you know, it doesn't
define who I am when they find big
615
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,780
financial success. Yes, I do notice the
way they choose to use money is quite
616
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:07,320
different, and I think that's also very
important, and that can alter the
617
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:12,420
future, you know? So one of the things
that you mentioned, that you mentioned
618
00:45:12,420 --> 00:45:15,120
just now, is about like, who you work
with, and finding the right
619
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:20,280
collaborators and things like that. So
you have a long running, ongoing podcast
620
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:26,600
where you spoken with a lot of creative
minds, including yours truly, and also
621
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,100
you run. You are part of this collective
right, where you do, like group
622
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,880
engagements and things like that. So I'm
just curious, what have been some of
623
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:40,900
your maybe favorite guests or podcast
moments that were like light bulb
624
00:45:40,900 --> 00:45:45,220
moments for you, I know sometimes I have
those, but also just some of your
625
00:45:45,220 --> 00:45:46,420
favorite collaborators.
626
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,000
Elena Armijo: Oh my gosh, that's such a
big question. I love all my podcast
627
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,120
guests because they all teach me
something. So I will start there. Like,
628
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,860
I don't have a favorite that would be
really hard to pick, because I think the
629
00:45:59,860 --> 00:46:05,640
people that I invite on the show are
really innovative, disruptive,
630
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,560
courageous. That's why they're on the
show, right? Because of who they are. So
631
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,640
I learn every time I do it, it's why I
keep doing it. Like I I'm pretty sure,
632
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,780
like, maybe I have, like, maybe 100
people that listen to my podcast. So
633
00:46:18,780 --> 00:46:23,060
it's not like, you know, a ton of people
that are listening all the time, but I
634
00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:27,380
love doing it. I love the conversations,
and I I always learn something. So I
635
00:46:27,380 --> 00:46:31,220
hope that, I hope whoever's listening
gets something for themselves when they
636
00:46:31,220 --> 00:46:36,860
listen. It's a, it's a service based
thing for me. So that's why I do it. And
637
00:46:36,860 --> 00:46:41,560
then the collaborators that I love, man,
I just, I love coaches that are, that
638
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,040
are good coaches. You know, I'm
surrounded by some of the best coaches
639
00:46:45,100 --> 00:46:49,600
in the industry, and I am so grateful
for that. I think of everybody who's a
640
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:54,100
part of the collective who said yes to
this crazy idea that we still don't have
641
00:46:54,100 --> 00:46:58,780
any idea if it's gonna work. You know,
we're still, we're still experimenting
642
00:46:58,780 --> 00:47:05,520
away and trying to build a brand and a
business. And they just are so willing
643
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:13,320
to say yes and play and create. And,
man, I feel so lucky. I really do that.
644
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,860
I get to be surrounded by these people.
And I mean, I could list all of their
645
00:47:16,860 --> 00:47:22,460
names. There's not a single one of them
that I don't treasure and love and adore
646
00:47:22,460 --> 00:47:27,320
and respect, and it's just so much fun.
That's the thing I really want to say,
647
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,100
is, even if the business itself doesn't
generate something that's, you know, a
648
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:38,060
ten million company in the future, the
key is the people. And as a coach,
649
00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:44,260
collaboration has me not being out there
alone, which I think is is awful in any
650
00:47:44,260 --> 00:47:48,400
profession, and it's what entrepreneurs
and solopreneurs deal with a lot. Yeah.
651
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,360
So it was such a gift to be able to
create a community where we could just
652
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,980
be together and be a brain trust call
each other up and say, like, Hey, I'm
653
00:47:56,980 --> 00:48:00,300
struggling with this client, or hey, I
got this really cool contract, and I'm
654
00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:04,560
thinking so and so and so might be great
on it. And what do you think that part
655
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,260
is fun? And I think that that that we as
coaches need more of that, and they're
656
00:48:10,260 --> 00:48:13,140
everybody's too busy to create it,
right? So it's, like, always a dream,
657
00:48:13,140 --> 00:48:17,580
and nobody does it and and I'm glad that
TCC exists for that reason.
658
00:48:17,820 --> 00:48:21,080
Robert Kuang: Yeah, yeah, everyone talks
about it, but sometimes, who's gonna go
659
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,960
through the discomfort of like, growing
it, right? Yeah,
660
00:48:24,740 --> 00:48:28,040
Elena Armijo: right. It takes a lot of
energy, and I'm just grateful that
661
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:28,940
people were willing,
662
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:32,540
Robert Kuang: yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And knowing quite a few people in that
663
00:48:32,540 --> 00:48:35,780
group crew, certainly people should
check out your space as much as
664
00:48:35,780 --> 00:48:40,960
possible. So thank you so much for your
time today, and I certainly just took up
665
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,120
every minute. No, I love it, just like
so fun asking you with these kind of
666
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,600
somewhat serious questions I'm certainly
gonna put where people can find you in
667
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,420
the episode description, but real
quickly, while we're here, where can
668
00:48:52,420 --> 00:48:56,560
people find you specifically, and also
maybe the collective as well.
669
00:48:56,620 --> 00:49:00,340
Elena Armijo: Yeah, you can find both
myself and the collective on LinkedIn,
670
00:49:00,340 --> 00:49:06,480
also our websites. Elena army ho calm is
my personal website, and then the c dash
671
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,560
suite collective.com is the collective
website. And I mean, we're around, you
672
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,680
can find us anywhere. Just, yeah, just
go look for us, and we'll reach back out
673
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:14,100
for
674
00:49:13,930 --> 00:49:16,930
Robert Kuang: sure. Thank you so much
for your time today, Elena, it's always
675
00:49:16,930 --> 00:49:19,330
a pleasure to dive in. Thank you.