WEBVTT
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My dad wasn't around really, there were some difficulties that he had.
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Just not having him around, I found really difficult.
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We had very little money, felt very responsible from a young age.
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I felt like an adult, even when I was like six or seven years old, and I was, you know, worried about all the things that you worry about as an adult, like where are we gonna live, what are we gonna eat, and do we have enough money and stuff like that.
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There is hope, and I think especially with the world how it is now, it can be really, really challenging to see that hope.
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But if you can hold on to even the smallest little part of that, there might be amazing things waiting for you on the other side.
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Welcome to Shoulder to Shoulder I With You.
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My name's Kate, and today I'm speaking with Charlie.
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Now Charlie got sober at just 22, and peer support played a huge role in helping her rebuild her life.
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Now she works as a peer support worker in the NHS and she's building sober community spaces for others.
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Real stories, real impact, and why peer support makes all the difference.
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Charlie, thank you so much for being here.
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Thank you.
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That was a lovely introduction.
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Thank you.
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Well, it's the truth.
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I guess so.
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So for anyone who hasn't met you yet, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you're up to right now.
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Yeah, so I am a peer supporter for the NHS community mental health team, like you said.
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Um, I'm also studying to be a therapist.
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I think I'll have a bit more than a year before I'm qualified, which is very exciting.
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Um, I also recently launched Shrewsbury Soda Club, which is a sort of social community group for people who just don't want to drink or meet people who don't drink.
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Um, and I'm five years sober myself.
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I've got a lot of little side hustles and projects that I like to do.
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Um, and yeah, but it's been a long and winding road to get to this point, I think.
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And yeah, there's been there's a bit of a backstory there, but you know, I'm I'm very messy, I'm still figuring stuff out.
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Um, like you said, like I'll be the first to say, like, I don't know what's going on, you know.
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Who am I to know?
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I'm just I'm just a girl, I'm just trying my best to make the world a little bit of a better place, um, in whatever ways I can, and I I don't do it perfectly, that's for sure.
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I know, but that in itself is an inspiration, Charlie.
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You know, thanks.
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And in our last conversation, you did just want to touch on this, talk about a well-being hub.
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Yeah, okay, so this is not created yet, but I very much would like to, with my partner as well, who's also training to be a therapist, sort of create a well-being hub where we can offer lots of different types of well-being, I think, and and therapy, but also um a community space, um, maybe more alternative therapies and mindfulness stuff.
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Um, I think that would be really cool, and I have lots of ideas, but the practicality, um, you know, I'm still figuring out.
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Uh, but I do make things happen as well.
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I have a lot of half-finished projects, but I have a lot of finished projects.
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I yeah, I started writing a book when I was about a year sober.
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I wrote it and then I forgot about it for about five years.
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So I'm kind of working on that at the moment, might self-publish it.
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Haven't really decided.
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Yeah, I'm I I can finish things.
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I can finish things, and I yeah, I would love to have this well-being have a place where people can just come together and do all sorts of different things that support their well-being, their happiness, help them live a fulfilling life, you know, go deeper with the sort of more therapy side.
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Um, my partners would like to do, you know, sort of crisis support and eco-therapy as well.
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So we have lots of ideas.
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We're very uh we're both neurodiverse, so we have a lot of there's a lot of ideas and there's a a lot of planning, and then sometimes fall through.
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But yeah, it's good.
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The ideas and the creative process are I don't know about you.
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For me, they kind of keep me going.
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And like you, you know, I might not finish everything.
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In fact, probably don't try lots of different things and uh and don't necessarily finish or succeed at many of them, but uh it's that creative process, isn't it?
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That's the the kind of drive, right?
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100%.
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I think creativity is so so important for me and my recovery, my well-being staying, you know, calm, staying grounded, but uh it just gives so much meaning to my life, like it allows me to express myself, you know.
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You come up with a lot of ideas to make things better and improve things.
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And you know, last night I got really obsessed with the idea of PSHE in schools and you know, learning stuff in school that people don't know about, you know, community and equality and psychoeducation and all the stuff that I've learned as an adult that I probably could have used, you know, learning in school.
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Um, yeah.
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So yeah, I get I get hyper-fixated on things and then yeah, but I love the creativity, and I think creativity looks different for everyone.
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Like I I also love art and I'm not very good, but I love it.
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Um, writing, uh, making music.
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My partner's actually quite good at that, but I'm just do it for the for the fun.
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I write like spoken word poetry and stuff, and just any way I can express myself, and you know, whether that's through projects and ideas, or you know, you might be a business owner or you might be a chef, and like there are just so many ways to be creative, and I think you can add so much to people's lives.
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Yeah.
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You said when we spoke the first time that you believe that if you put things out in the world with good intentions and if you're authentic, you'll be successful.
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Yeah, a hundred percent.
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I really, I really do believe that, and I think different people's idea of success looks different, of course.
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But if I am being authentic, I'm already successful.
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Um, that's that's how I feel anyway, and I'm doing my best and I'm being myself, and I think it's a really it's a really important thing for me to have, you know, especially working with people who are quite professional, whatever you think about that that word.
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Um we spoke about that the other day, didn't we?
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We did, yeah.
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Um, you know, being real, and I think you can you can be someone who is successful and like works hard and has projects, and you know, all of these things.
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I think the sort of traditional idea of success, or like the more corporate side or the more financial side, I think people are very discouraged from being real and being themselves, and there's a lot of fakeness, and um, you know, people have got a bit of a stick up their ass.
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I mean if I'm allowed to say that.
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Um, but I think being yourself, I just think it's so underrated, and like I think you can be just so successful and still be a bit silly, a bit whimsical, you know, be yourself, be real, be human.
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Everyone's human, every single person out there is human, and you know, I think it's a mistake to not embrace all of those aspects of ourselves, like in in whatever, whether that's in the workplace or in your personal life, you know.
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And if everybody did that, wouldn't the world be such a magical place?
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Because I'm kind of getting the uh the feeling, and you've just made me think of it, that this word professional it sounds so serious, and it kind of like you say, it almost compresses people into this kind of version of themselves which isn't authentic, you know, you've got to behave a certain way, you've got to look a certain way, you've got to earn a certain amount of money, you've got to live in a certain type of home.
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And if you just uh sort of threw off all those kind of I don't know shackles, I guess, that people are sort of raised with, you know, the whole education system just gets people ready um for that, then surely people would be able to be more authentic and be real and be themselves, which would in turn, I don't know, maybe create a happier, happier society.
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A hundred percent, I think so.
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And I yeah, I do see it as a sort of societal problem.
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And like you said, in schools, you're kind of put into this box and this mould and told that this is the way to be, this is the way to look, you know.
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And you know, I have pink hair, I wear silly clothes, my apartment looks like a rainbow with sick all over it, you know.
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Um apartment flat, I never say apartment.
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My flat looks like a rainbow exploded in here.
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Um and that's my style.
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Also, people have different styles, but different ways to express themselves.
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But if it feels right to you and that's how you want to express yourself, and you're not doing it because you feel like you should, or because you feel like that's the attractive or desirable or successful professional thing, I think that's that's kind of what matters.
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And yeah, that that word professional, it makes me think of that too, something so serious, so formal or authority, stuff like that, power dynamics, all of that.
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And I I think it's quite rebellious to be able to be yourself in in this sort of culture that we're in, especially in the sort of Western world.
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Um did just inadvertently call myself rebellious, but there we go.
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Um, yeah, it's tough, it's tough to do.
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I can see why there are so many constraints that are put in from society, but also I think by making small changes and just being more real and saying what you really feel and what you really think, even when you're at work, even when you're in these more professional settings, I think it just can be so empowering and freeing as well.
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Like you just stop caring.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It is difficult, you're absolutely right.
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It is difficult, and um, yeah, you said that it is kind of seen as being rebellious, but really it's just being yourself, you know what I mean?
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And that, yeah, it's funny how almost controversial it is to be yourself when that is seems like the most obvious thing to be and to and to do.
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And that's not to say that you don't need things like I think sometimes when I say that I'm silly and that I'm whimsical and I don't really care, like in that way, I do care a lot about a lot of things, but I don't really care in that sort of sense.
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People think, oh, you're you know, you're not very trustworthy, or you're not respectful, or you don't have boundaries, and it's not about that, you know.
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All those things are really important, and yeah, the more serious stuff can be really important, but I don't see why everyone needs to wear a suit if they don't feel comfortable wearing a suit, you know.
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I just don't get it.
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I just don't I don't see the point.
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I totally agree.
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We're gonna put the world to rights.
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I know.
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So, Charlie, take us back then, right?
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Because you've had a very um, how can I put it, interesting life, and you're only 28.
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What was life like for you growing up?
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Very good question.
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Um, well, it's difficult to know where to start, but I will.
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Um, I guess when we were young kids, um my dad wasn't around really.
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There were some difficulties that he had with drinking and stuff like that, which I found really really hard.
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Um just not having him around, I found really difficult.
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We had very little money, felt quite responsible from my young age, you know.
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I was like to my younger siblings, I was almost another parent and you know, saw a lot, did a lot, and it was tough.
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Like, you know, it was it was really difficult.
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And you know, some of my mum's partners weren't the nicest.
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And I was I think because of all that, because I had a very I was very aware, very in tune with everything that was going on.
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I felt very responsible from a young age.
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I felt like an adult, even when I was like six or seven years old, and I was you know worried about all the things that you worry about as an adult, like where are we gonna live and what we're gonna eat and do we have enough money and and stuff like that.
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Um, I remember being sort of yeah, plagued by those things, and I think because of that, I was a very sort of anxious, sensitive child, and didn't really sort of fit in in primary school, I was very scared of mostly men.
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Um, I remember there was one teacher who was like a supply teacher and he was quite strict and um I was very scared of him, and he made me well, I read out something and he made me stand up and I thought I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm in big trouble.
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That's like an ongoing theme in my life.
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I'm in trouble.
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Um me too.
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Yeah, it's it's a hard one to cope with even now.
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But yeah, he made me stand up and I thought I was gonna be in trouble, and he was like, Please can you read that out again?
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And then he said, you know, are you gonna go to Oxford or Cambridge?
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I didn't know what that meant, I was like eight years old, but then I told my mum, I was like, was he like being mean?
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And she was like, No, he's saying you're really clever.
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And I was like, uh, I didn't get that at all.
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Um, so I think yeah, in primary school and like that sort of age, I was quite yeah, liked by my teachers and very sensitive, very shy, very responsible, I guess.
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Um, I didn't really fit in, especially at certain times we moved around a lot, and then kind of as I became an early teenager, I mean you're going through puberty as well, which is just horrendous for everyone.
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But the stuff in school, you're not really taught anything.
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I didn't really know anything that was going to happen to my body like before it happened, and I feel absolutely no shame about that sort of thing now.
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But at the time I was just like had so much shame, so so much shame.
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Um, and I felt powerless, I felt helpless in a lot of things at in my home life and at school, and then and then I discovered alcohol, and I was like, wow, this is great! Like, I'm not I don't feel anxious, I don't feel worried, I don't feel responsible, I feel powerful, I feel I'm funny, I'm cool, you know, and people started to like notice me and um people started to find me attractive and that and that gave me this sort of power, I guess, that I didn't know I I could have.
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I think I've always felt very powerless, you know, not having a lot of money, being around a lot of scary men, and yeah, so I always felt very powerless.
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Um, and then that kind of made me feel powerful, and so it became a bit of a bit of a problem.
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And in school I sort of I think I had the sort of thing of like if I don't try then I can't sort of fail, and so I didn't really try, but I still did quite well in school.
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Um, but I was a bit rebellious and I was very sort of controversial for the sake of being controversial, you know, and challenging a lot of the teachers' assumptions and like you know, making arguments with people and stuff like that.
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Um, but yeah, almost in a performative way, like you know, I'm so different, da da da.
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Um, which I've think I've managed to let go of a bit now.
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Um I remember my mum actually once in parents' evening was like, sounds like she was really thinking out of that the box in that situation, and the teacher was like, Oh, I was like trying to like have a go at her.
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My mum was grateful for that stuff to be fair.
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She was like, Yeah, she she just she just thought I was I was great and yeah, couldn't really do no wrong, but I think at the same time, you know, love her to death.
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But yeah, there wasn't like a huge amount of boundaries, I was very much left to do sort of what I wanted, which yeah, which you know, I I did.
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I did those things.
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Um just putting myself in lots of risky situations as well.
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Risky situations with drugs and alcohol and um meeting up with people who probably didn't have my best interests at heart, um, men, and yeah, I think that made me it made me feel powerful, but at the same time I sort of wasn't at the same time, I was quite vulnerable in a lot of ways.
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So you mentioned being involved in looking after your your younger siblings from a young age and worrying about all those things from six or seven.
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I mean, what a weight to carry around.
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So uh what did that do to you, uh you know, carrying that kind of responsibility as a child?
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And how many siblings did you have, by the way?
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I have two younger siblings, and I would say so.
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There's quite a big age gap between me and the the youngest one.
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Um she's called May, and the other one's called Maisie.
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It's quite funny because they sound really similar, but uh May is gender fluid, so uses all pronouns and has chosen their own name.
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Um, but it's just quite funny that it sounds a lot like Maisie, Maze and May.
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Um, but it was mostly me and Maisie for a long time.
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We're two years apart.
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Um, and then obviously when May was born, I was nine or ten, so May was a baby.
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And you know, I I I I find it difficult to talk about, I think, because my mum is amazing and like she did her absolute best, and like, you know, I think it I think it's a really common thing that happens with elder siblings, especially if there's only one parent and and there's like various partners around, they they do just take on that role naturally, like I think it I think it just does happen, but carrying the weight around, yeah, even now I can feel the heaviness of it, and as much work as I've done on myself and all of those things, I still feel responsible for my siblings.
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I I am trying, I'm trying not to, but it's something that I've just always carried around with me.
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It's funny because Maisie is now 25 and she's got a baby, and I don't have any kids, but yeah, that worries me to no end.
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Um, and then May is 17 in college, but yeah, I just love them both so much and try to let go of some of my elder sibling uh responsibility mindset, but it is hard.
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Yeah, so let's move on to university then.
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You were the first in your family to go to university, you went to Liverpool University to study uh sociology and philosophy.
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What was that like?
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Yeah, so I think it was it was great in a lot of ways, but I think you know I was quite I was quite well liked by my teachers in sixth form, and I did quite well, and then I went into a room where I actually was like pretty average, and that was like a bit of a knock to the confidence, I guess.
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Pretty average to you would be incredible to me because I I couldn't have gone to Liverpool University.
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So I mean, even going there and doing it is is a massive achievement considering what you've been up against throughout your formative years.
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Yeah, and I and I do see that.
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I definitely do see that, and I think it's kind of it was less about the money because obviously what if you have if your parents, the family have less money, you get higher loans and grants and stuff.
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So I was like very lucky in that respect.
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I've got a load of debt now, but it's absolutely fine, don't care.
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Um, I was very lucky in that respect, but I think it's more the culture, like the culture of like if you're quite working class and you've been brought up around that kind of culture, it's you know, it's not the norm to go to university, or you know, people quite worry about it because of the financial side, and I think it was just a bit of luck and a bit of timing that made me want to sort of apply, and I was also very mindful that there's a lot of privilege going on in uni.
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I was really happy that I chose Liverpool.
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I think Liverpool is a fantastic uni, and there's a lot less of that I would say.
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I think I would really struggle in one of the more sort of prestigious unis.
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Um I know someone who has had that exact feeling, someone who's grown up in well poverty and was given sort of extra grants and stuff, and was touted for Oxford and Cambridge, but um went and had a look round and thought I don't fit in here.
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So ended up going to Newcastle, you know, where they felt they did fit in.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.839
But that's a kind of stain on our society, really, isn't it?
00:18:48.319 --> 00:19:03.920
Definitely, definitely, and it's I think it it's kind of a positive thing that they have more grants for people who are less privileged, but then you stick like one or two of those people in a group of everyone who went to private school, and that is my personal nightmare, you know.
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:58.079
I I think I felt very insecure, not about my intelligence so much as my sort of general knowledge, and like you know, I took I I met people in uni who you know they used to go to like national parks and go to museums with their family, and that was just like not something I ever did, and like I I didn't relate to it, and I didn't don't know much about sort of history and uh general knowledge and countries and politics, and like I just always felt a bit behind in that sense, I think, which um I've sort of struggled with and I love to learn as well, so I've you know I've sort of since then learned a lot and and know more, but because of that big sort of gap, like I'd still say, you know, I don't have a lot of knowledge in in those areas, and I think that that alone can make you feel like an alien in those sorts of groups because I remember actually my my ex-partner he went to Cambridge to do a master's, and I once went to visit him and was hanging out with some other people on the course.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.319
I did not know what was going on in the conversation.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.160
I was literally like, what is happening?
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:05.759
I don't know what topic we're talking about, like I truly don't understand.
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:08.880
Um, so yeah, I think that can be really, really hard.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.759
And um, but I I had a really good experience at Liverpool in terms of in in that respect.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:15.519
I think Liverpool's a great city for it.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:22.640
It's not a very um well, it's not a very privileged place, but it's also I think met a lot of really down-to-earth people.
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:31.039
Um Does that highlight the fact that state education doesn't provide young people with what it needs to?
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:53.680
And by that I mean that if you're not fortunate enough to have access at home to parental import, you know, visits to museums, galleries, national parks, holidays, you know, those varieties of experiences you're not gonna get them from a state school system ultimately, which is obsessed with academia.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:03.519
Like you said, you know, you were you did well at school, but you didn't have that other sort of aspect to draw upon when you went to university.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.720
That's a very, very good question, and it's really hard to know.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:28.319
I think there's so many strands influencing this thing, you know, education, schools, um the sort of class system, politics, like it's all you know, and I I fully I'm for a full curriculum or like state curriculum reform because I just don't think it works.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:55.599
Like I just don't, and um, you know, particularly with the pressure on young people, sort of social media, uh the sort of incel culture and manosphere is really is really difficult, I think, for young men, and figuring out where they fit into that, um, not understanding yourself, your mental health, your how your brain works, how your body works, that those sorts of things that are just so important to have well being and to live a full life um aren't encouraged and aren't taught.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.680
You know, I remember I'm sure it's a little bit different now, but in school I had one lesson of PSHE.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.200
week and it wasn't there was no exams, there was no projects, there was no there was no indication that it was important in any way.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.960
Like no and it was a joke.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:10.480
Like people didn't take it seriously.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:23.440
I think we got like told off a few times about drugs, but no proper education around that and alcohol and you know I would have benefited so much from someone coming in someone cool, someone young being like hey guys like you know like a peer.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:25.440
If you drink too much, yeah, appear.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:26.000
Exactly.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:26.720
Exactly.
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:49.279
And I was saying this to my partner yesterday like it would be so cool if me and me and him could go, you know, because he's a man obviously and I'm a I'm a I'm a woman and um giving that sort of role model to to young women and young men and um and you know going in and like all it took I think when I was a teenager was for a teacher with tattoos to come in and swear a bit and I would be like yeah they're cool.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:50.079
Like do you know what I mean?
00:22:50.160 --> 00:23:07.039
It doesn't take a lot and this uber professional like I'm better than you I'm authoritarian thing it doesn't teach people because they don't engage because they just think F you like I'm not listening to you you're stupid like you don't get me you're not on my level like so yeah I think a lot more of that would be great.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:34.960
I don't know how I'm gonna make this happen but I feel like I am but you should because I know what you mean but I absolutely know exactly what you mean because as we know through peer work you know people respond to people who are like them you know who've had similar experiences and um you know maybe look like them speak like them and like you say when you get these kind of um what would you what did you say?
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.039
People walking around with a stick up their ass.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:57.119
Yeah yeah it just goes over your head doesn't it 100% a hundred percent like that relational aspect I think that's what's so amazing about peer work um and if we could bring that into schools at a younger age I think that would be amazing and yeah just sort of change the curriculum and shift the focus completely because I just think it's so incorrect.
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:40.079
And you know teaching kids about the different opportunities and equality and how you know people might be from a um more disadvantaged background and how that might influence them and just get people empathy lessons you know like communication lessons listening lessons like oh how is it gonna how's that person going to feel if I say this horrible thing you know and and and just not in a preachy way not in a judgmental way like they're figuring it out we're still figuring it out you know we're on a level like let's just talk like how do you feel you know school is shit like there's so much insecurity flying around hormones everything like it's so tough and just to acknowledge that and be like hey like I see you and I see that this kind of sucks but it truly doesn't last forever.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:25:13.519
The thing is though at the moment schools are judged aren't they on how many A stars or whatever they're even called now they they produce so they focus on on the subjects that you know are gonna produce these grades which in turn gives them more money from the government more people applying to go there and the important stuff the nitty gritty that you've just been talking about is seen as a um a nice to have instead of an essential so um I think there's a long road ahead to get that kind of change going on.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.400
So let's talk about the turning point then tell me about the night that you stopped drinking.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.039
Right?
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:42.559
What actually happened so yeah I'd so I'd obviously been to uni and um drank a lot didn't go to many lectures I did have a lot of really good times but I was pretty much nocturnal spent most of my time drinking not a lot of other stuff going on a lot of mental health issues sort of under the surface couldn't really decipher what they were or why they were happening.
00:25:43.279 --> 00:30:29.039
I also was kind of in the interested in sort of wellbeing stuff like I I liked yoga and meditation but I didn't really ever do them I just used them as sort of interesting talking points when I was out drinking um and yeah I think I was quite insecure quite seeking validation from other people and you know figuring out who I was as well but but also wanting to be liked wanting to be found attractive all of those things and not truly expressing my authentic self in the way that I I think I am now um and then obviously COVID happened that was the year after I finished uni which was a terrible year for my mental health I I did have a a job as a support worker but I was calling in sick a lot I was pretty much nocturnal I was I was eating terribly I wasn't sleeping well like all of those basic things weren't happening and then I ended up me and my ex-partner were living with his mum which was great and you know she really took care of us and I was acting in very questionable ways during that time and and she was really nice about it truly she was um and very grateful to her yeah so I think it was yeah it was just after Christmas and it was the 27th we had been it'd been one of those like street parties and um my ex-partner's mum was quite lived on quite a wealthy street I guess um and she actually lived next door to uh Stephen Moffat who wrote the Doctor Who so that was cool he was there I told him I was a writer he was like what do you do I was like I'm a writer and then I was like oh my god I didn't I didn't realise who you are which quite hilarious he was so nice to me though I think he liked me it was great um it's just so funny I was like oh I'm a writer by the way um and he's like yeah me too anyway but yeah it was there was a lot of older people a lot of very wealthy people and there's me just like drinking all this free proseco like everyone's socially distanced but I've probably had about 15 double glasses of prosecco and I'm you know vibing and then it's like four o'clock so it's obviously the winter and we go back inside and light the fire which is super cute but I'm really drunk and I'm like let's carry on drinking and my ex is like oh you know maybe maybe not maybe maybe you shouldn't and I'm like I'm gonna do it anyway so I'm drinking like rum and whiskey I think he was having like a beer anyway then I at a certain point I my my dad had messaged me didn't have a relationship with my dad really on and off we had spoken when I was a teenager he had I'm not sure if it was like a stroke or a seizure but he was basically brain damaged um and he did like regain his speech but I wasn't sure to like what extent and how he was now and what he remembered and what you know was going on with his brain and um whether he had some sort of like neurological difficulties stuff like that I didn't know so so yeah but he messaged me on this day just being like we should have a call and I was like yeah that sounds like a great idea um so I I called him um you know my partner at the time was like maybe this isn't a good idea and I was like I'm going to the bedroom I'm going to do it anyway from that moment I blacked out don't remember anything um apart from like a vague memory like a few hours later of me like screaming and crying and shouting at at him and yeah yeah I was it was very loud very messy um and then I woke up the next day I was actually meant to be nannying for the neighbours like as a little bit of part-time sort of work uh relaxed sort of working which I was like excited about anyway I had a meet I was meant to meet them meant to go around at like 11 that morning and I woke up and I felt horrendous I felt so bad like no one could pay me enough money to like go back to that moment because wow I felt bad my hair was like a bird's nest like I stamp of vodka for some reason I hadn't even been drinking vodka but I just smelt like vodka and I went to the toilet and I was sitting there and I was like eyes barely open like oh my god and then I just hear his mum say um can I have a word with you guys and I was literally like oh god I'm gonna get sick um and then my ex was like oh yeah what's up and and I just heard her through the wall like it's okay I'm just gonna w wanna wanna wanna wait for Charlie and I was just like oh no this is terrible and when I went in she basically it was an intervention really that was just her saying you know I'm I'm worried about you I I don't think you know it's a good time for you to be taking this nannying job working with kids like I'm I'm very worried about you and your mental health and your drinking which is just not what you want to hear especially as someone who you know I feel like a key part of my identity is like being a nice safe person that like you know I think kids usually love me and like not to say that that I did end up doing the nanny by the way and the kids did love me but yeah it was a real like kick in the face like I was like wow like I I I want to be a safe person and I I'm not being a safe person and that was hard.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:31:37.359
Wow what a story a big wake up call right yeah and it was a big wake-up call and I I I didn't drink I did dry January I was like okay I'm not gonna drink for January and then I was like okay I'm gonna go to my birthday then which is the end of February then I went to the end of March um my birthday that birthday I turned 23 so yeah I was 22 when I stopped drinking and just shortly after I turned 23 and then I got to the end of March and then I was like I'm not doing that ever again because I felt so much better and I still had a lot of issues a lot of trauma a lot of stuff to work through um I also have EUPD which we can talk about diagnosis I don't really put myself in like specific boxes but um it can be helpful to just sort of it was helpful for me to feel less alone and less because I think the the stigma with with that kind of um mental health struggle is you're manipulative you're doing things for attention da da da which like it I was doing things for attention I was doing them for connection for support I was crying for help you know and and I could see why I was doing the behaviours that I was doing but I couldn't stop myself from doing it.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:53.839
It wasn't malicious I wasn't trying to be manipulative but I could see with retrospect or with a bit of distance that that was kind of the reason you know I I needed to have that reassurance that validation that support um and I was you know really scared of losing losing someone and yeah.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:38.240
You're listening to Shoulder to shoulder by with you today we're hearing from Charlie on recovery sober community and the power of peer support so on the back of that and that is so reflective by the way um for someone so young I wish I had had that capacity at that age and I don't mean that in a patronizing sense I mean when I look back on my life and what I was doing at 27 which I still hold a lot of shame for I just wish that I'd had that kind of intervention by somebody but so on the back of all that you've started great things one of which is the sober club the sober social club in Shrewsbury.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.599
Tell us about that you know what was the gap that you kind of saw and how has it taken off already?
00:32:44.000 --> 00:37:26.480
Yeah so obviously I've been sober now for about five years and during that time I've done all sorts went back to uni to do philosophy moved to Italy for a year and throughout that whole time I think I was just desperate for connection and a lot of people my age are going out drinking and that's you know how they socialise and that's and that's fine that's great you know and I've I'm not one to judge whatsoever and I can be in those environments I find very noisy very crowded environments quite overwhelming but you know I don't mind going to a little bar like I'm sort of okay with that now but when I was at when I was doing my masters I created sober society and I didn't think anyone was going to show up and like it had like it's still going now which is great and it had so many members so I was just kind of thinking when I had to move back to my sort of hometown after I lived in Italy you know I've been thinking it for a while like oh it'd be great to meet some other sober people and I'm I'm sort of in the sort of wellbeing world or network within my within my town and I have met really great people through sort of yoga and wellbeing events and stuff like that but also I just wanted to create a space that yeah there's wellbeing stuff but also it's just social it's just fun um and there wasn't anything like that um in my town there's a great charity actually called Share Shrewsbury um in the town and uh the the founder of it Jane she's amazing she used to be the mayor um and I've met up with her and had great chats with her and they're kind of she she really sadly lost um her daughter to to alcohol so she shares that story and comes at it from a sort of harm reduction educational perspective and then obviously I'm going for the more social side so you know we're in we're in cahoots and uh little chats and stuff um and yeah I just saw a big gap and I've had so many responses like I'm not very good at like promoting or marketing or anything like that but you know there's there's been a lot of people reach out via email via message um to say yeah they want to they want to see more events they we did a sober disco which was a lot of fun um really really good and considering it was our first event which was a bit of a wild one to choose I think but it was our first event it went really really well um we had food we had a cozy corner with games we had music um yeah my friend John did the music he has like little vinyl decks it was it was just a lot of fun and then we've been doing uh sober little walks where we get a little coffee and just walk around like there's like the quarry which is like quite cute and it's by the river and it's got trees it's it's just cute it's just nice and then I'm sort of in the process of creating a um partially online partially in person a sort of peer support space basically I wanted to ask you about how you've kind of incorporated peer support into into all of this because literally what just jumped out at me then when you were talking about you know the walks and things like that it is very peery isn't it because it's almost um a way of people checking in and um having that sort of person that's maybe a little bit further along their journey um to kind of walk alongside them kind of literally um so yeah literally about how how how peer support is incorporated into everything you do such a such a good question and uh uh a really important point I think that was a real big motivator for me in creating Shrewsbury Soda Club because you know I'm I'm a lot I'm not an expert I wouldn't want I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be or put myself on that pedestal as sort of in charge or you know in any way authoritarian so I just yeah I want people's input I want to know what people want to do what they want to see and maybe get some more people involved as well like once I've sort of figured it out I think it's difficult because you want it I want it to be a certain way in terms of like be a really safe space and supported space and so you have to almost be a little bit cautious I guess because obviously yeah I think it's it I feel protective over it let's say that but I really want more people involved and more different perspectives and um it's a real like I think a real key value of of the group and even in even in my training as a therapist you know I notice a lot of similarities between person centred therapy and peer support you know doing all the stuff around the ways of communicating and being non-directive and that sort of thing is very um person centered therapy and I I love peer work so much and I love therap I love therapeutic work so much and you know finding a way to bring those align with my values my personal values and make therapy and maybe more uh stereotypically um clinical or like I'm doing this thing to you making those spaces more collaborative as well because why would why why shouldn't they be you know I I I think if we can go in that direction then the peer values will sink into so many different areas and I just think that would be so amazing for yeah lots of occupations lots of supportive occupations.
00:37:27.039 --> 00:39:46.719
Sounds amazing like literally I think it's it's just so fabulous to to hear um you talk about developing this because it's it's inspiring and uh I I've no doubt the people listening to it will um find it um inspiring too um let's go back to that kind of bigger dream that's bubbling away that we kind of touched on at the beginning that kind of well-being hub because I can visualize this it might be different to what you visualize but kind of paint me a picture what does it look like in your head I think what it looks like is a very I mean yeah it's definitely there's some like wrinkles to iron out and yeah like I said it hasn't been created yet but I would love to I would love to create a space that where people can just come in hang out maybe there's a little cafe there just place to chill maybe they've got sort of different groups different classes on like art classes or yoga or you know things like that just groups free groups um peer led groups right yeah yeah peer led peer led um maybe for different things as well like I there's actually a service like near me which is not exactly what I'm envisioning but kind of has a lot of similarities and yeah their peer-led groups are great and you know having having different supportive groups led by people with that lived experience I think is is would just be amazing and yeah incorporating lots of different things I think maybe some like uh doing some like CPD for um for everyone like there's with with our trust we have like the wellbeing and recovery college which is more sort of educational workshops stuff like that but really informative really like um co-produce everything like that really I I really love the work that they do so it'd be great to include something like that and then like the more sort of therapeutic side one-to-one therapy one-to-one coaching um I also do the EFT like tapping you know like somatic therapy stuff um that's kind of what I'm envisioning I think the the thing to sort of iron out is how to not have or how to have the appropriate sort of relationships and boundaries and not have the sort of dual relationships and things like that that I don't know exactly how that would look um but yeah it's all it's all in the pipeline and and at the moment I kind of uh I make lots of little little well-being things and uh write things and make stuff on my Instagram and I'm I want to make it's all kind of around I think messy healing is like the the main thing.
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:57.840
It's like getting better feeling good whatever that looks like for you in a way that's imperfect messy and and and suits you and and I've got lots of ideas for little things to create and just just spread the good vibes.
00:39:58.159 --> 00:41:12.800
You've also got an idea for a podcast haven't you nice segue into that yes um me and my partner um so we're our jobs are both in mental health um and we're both uh training to be therapists and we both have lived experience he has um schizo effective disorder which I think there's a lot of stigma around that and you know even before we were together I would say I didn't I wouldn't say I had a stigma towards it but I had a bit of uncertainty I didn't know very much about it and I was a little bit afraid and yeah stuff like that but um yeah I think it's really important to meet meet people and hear their stories and so so kind of sort of a um a well-being podcast if you like messy healing podcast around different topics different things that can be helpful for wellbeing but from that sort of lived experience lens um and then obviously you know having the the additional training and the knowledge from working in mental health and that side of things as well and yeah just like spreading what people might use to feel good and feel happy and you know never never directly never saying you need to do this to be happy and you need to do that that this is what it should look like like no everyone's different everyone you know it needs different things and it's taken me a long time to figure that out and figure out what exactly works for me.
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:21.440
And you described it as celebrating the messiness of healing you said I used to be chaotic bad now I'm chaotic good.
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:55.199
I love that yeah yeah truly like um me and James talk about my little niece she's she's uh she's almost two now and she is like the embodiment of chaotic good she's like a little like she's like a little terror but she's just so pure and innocent and beautiful and like that's that's how I feel now I feel you know I am a bit messy I am a bit chaotic like my fat gets into a state sometimes I'm late for things I forget things you know but I think my intentions are good I I live as as much as I can in alignment with my values and the things that are important to me.
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:13.599
I show people kindness I try not to judge um I put things out there with good intentions and I just kind of see what happens and I think trusting that I where I am right now is the right place for me to be where I'll go in the future will be the right place for me to be and having that yeah that kind of radical acceptance as well has been really important for me.
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:57.039
And because life will happen life is hard and lots of external situational things happen and if you can foster a little bit of loving acceptance you know and that's not to say pushing feelings away if you're angry feel angry if you're upset feel upset you know but I think having that gratitude in my life and that acceptance for the things that have happened to me and also knowing that they have made me the person that I am now and you know I don't wish any of it didn't happen because I truly wouldn't I wouldn't be in in this like area wouldn't be doing peer work I wouldn't I probably wouldn't know anything about this sort of world you know and and maybe I would be more sort of quote unquote stable but I don't think I would enjoy it.
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:39.920
You know I might be doing something more medium and more boring and like you know I think to to be put in the place where you are so distressed you couldn't possibly do another day that builds so much resilience and so much um almost you you feel like you have to get so much out of your life because it's like I've been in a place where I couldn't last another day you know I've been in a place where I didn't want to be here anymore and I just you know and and it's like with the drinking like if I didn't take it too far I never would have stopped and I think that's the best thing I ever did you know and I think being sober is fantastic and I if I had been good at moderating my my alcohol um I'd probably still be drinking now you know and I and I might not be as happy and fulfilled as I as I am now because of that.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:52.800
So yeah I'm just I'm really grateful for everyone in my life I've got some amazing people in my life who have helped me amazing people in services as well as much as it's also been difficult at times but yeah I'm I'm yeah I'm just very grateful.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:44:03.119
So just a couple of points to wrap up then Charlie so you're 28 when you think about The twelve year old girl who first picked up a drink.
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.239
What do you wish you could have known?
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.960
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:13.840
I guess I could have known I wish I could have known that things will get better.
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:22.159
Um that there's no shame in how you're feeling, you know, how your body's changing, what your thoughts are.
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:27.039
Um I wish I had known that there are ways to be powerful that didn't involve drinking.
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.079
But again, I don't think I would change it.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:36.320
I think I would just if I could go back and give myself a lot of love and a lot of just like, hey, you're gonna be okay.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:43.840
Um and maybe take away some of that shame and just have have more of those open conversations because I just think that was what was lacking, you know.
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:56.960
And I think especially in this country, people can be a little bit prudish, um, which I I completely understand, but I think just bringing that into schools, into families, like let's talk, you know, what what what's going on in your mind?
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:05.679
Because it's so it's so lonely when you're struggling with your mental health and you're having all these thoughts, but you don't feel able to express them because they give you a lot of shame.
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.440
Um, whether that's around mental health or sexuality, that was a big one for me as well.
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:15.360
And I think just opening up the conversation, being like, whatever you want to say, it's okay.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.679
Like it's okay, it's okay to be thinking these thoughts and to be having these feelings that you're having.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:20.400
Sure.
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:30.960
And for anyone listening who's really struggling right now, maybe um perhaps they are kind of in a similar place to where you were a few years ago.
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.440
What would you want them to hear?
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.519
Oh, that's a good question.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:46:02.559
I think I would like them to to know and to to hear that they're okay as they are, and who they are, you know, is nothing to be ashamed of, and and those experiences that they might have had, whether that's around mental health, addiction, whatever their lived experience is, you know, there are gonna be people out there who understand, who get it, and there are ways to get through this.
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:13.360
And as difficult as things get, there is that light, there is there is hope, and I think especially with the world how it is now, it can be really, really challenging to see that hope.
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:32.559
But if you can hold on to even the smallest, little part of that, you know, there might be amazing things waiting for you on the other side, and it and yes, it might be a long and winding road, a very difficult journey, but there are ways to live your best life, you know, to live a fulfilling life that you want to live.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:38.239
There are ways to get there and have a little bit of trust, have a little bit of hope, a little bit of patience.
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:39.760
And I know it's hard.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:49.119
Talk talk to people as well, you know, if you can, if there are people around, if if there are services that are positive, and um, if you can get peer support, that's even better.
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:55.280
Um, and yeah, just talking about it, I think, and taking it out of your head and and showing that vulnerability.
00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:01.599
So I think showing vulnerability is is really underrated, and and I think it can be so hard for some people, particularly men.
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:04.320
And I think there's no shame in being vulnerable.
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:11.920
We're all human, we're all people, we've all got you know stuff going on in our heads, no matter where you're from or what you've been through.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:21.840
No one in the world gets through this life without a problem or a or a difficulty or a mental health problem, or you know, that it's just it's just not a thing that happens.
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:29.519
It's it's we're all in this together, and finding people who sort of speak your language and maybe have similar lived experience to you.
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:39.039
Um is so powerful, and it I just helped me feel so much less alone when I yeah, when I got in touch with the sort of sober community and other people who have had similar experiences to me.
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:42.800
It's it was an amazing thing, and also there's a lot of that online, you know.
00:47:42.880 --> 00:48:04.800
As much as I I tend to slate online, there are I my first like sober community was all online, and I didn't know anyone in person who was sober, so it it really helped me, it really supported me reading those books about sort of changing my mind about alcohol, reading books about mental health, just just understanding myself better, I think, and being curious about hey, what's actually going on and and where did this begin?
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:15.039
And um, it's a it's a lot of work, but now I like to say that I can still I still have all these monsters right in my mind, but I'm not afraid to look at any of them anymore.
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:17.280
There are none that are like hiding.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:30.239
I can look every single one of those monsters and those demons in the eye and be like, hey, I know you, I've seen you, I've talked about you, you know, even the even the worst ones that filled me with so much shame, and I never thought I would utter to another soul.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:40.159
I've now uttered to another soul, and and that it has brought me so much relief and just being able to look at all those dark corners of my mind that I didn't want to look at for so many years.
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:42.559
It's really hard, it's really, really, really hard.
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:44.239
But once you've done it, you've done it, you know.
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:45.920
The monster isn't that scary when you look at it.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.440
It's like, oh yeah, I can see you.
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:52.320
You know, when you turn the lights on, the monster's just a just a figure, like, hey, I see you, you know.
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.519
That's a it was when it's in the dark that it's really scary, right?
00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:57.360
Um sure.
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:02.719
Look, I could sit and chat with you all day because I think you're fascinating, you're inspiring.
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:17.519
You are a peer support worker, trainee therapist, founder of the Shrewsbury Sober Club, and someone who I think genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, is gonna do so much good in the world, even more than you're already doing.
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:19.119
And uh, I want to thank you today.
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.679
It's been an absolute joy to speak with you.
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.519
Thank you, and and same to you.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:25.920
I just I think you're God's gift to earth.
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:29.199
So, yeah, thank you so much for having me, and and it's been great to chat.
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:31.199
Um, and yeah, thanks.
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:34.320
That's it for this episode of Shoulder to Shoulder.
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:36.800
Thanks to Charlie for sharing her story.
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:42.400
For more support and more stories, head over to withdashnew.co.uk.
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:49.760
And if you're enjoying the conversation, please subscribe to the channel to follow the podcast and share this with someone.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.120
My dad wasn't around really, there were some difficulties that he had.
00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:05.280
Just not having him around, I found really difficult.
00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:08.960
We had very little money, felt very responsible from a young age.
00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:19.519
I felt like an adult, even when I was like six or seven years old, and I was, you know, worried about all the things that you worry about as an adult, like where are we gonna live, what are we gonna eat, and do we have enough money and stuff like that.
00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:25.600
There is hope, and I think especially with the world how it is now, it can be really, really challenging to see that hope.
00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:32.799
But if you can hold on to even the smallest little part of that, there might be amazing things waiting for you on the other side.
00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:35.759
Welcome to Shoulder to Shoulder I With You.
00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:39.439
My name's Kate, and today I'm speaking with Charlie.
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:46.159
Now Charlie got sober at just 22, and peer support played a huge role in helping her rebuild her life.
00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:52.640
Now she works as a peer support worker in the NHS and she's building sober community spaces for others.
00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:57.600
Real stories, real impact, and why peer support makes all the difference.
00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.719
Charlie, thank you so much for being here.
00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:01.520
Thank you.
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:03.039
That was a lovely introduction.
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:03.679
Thank you.
00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.840
Well, it's the truth.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:08.400
I guess so.
00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:15.439
So for anyone who hasn't met you yet, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you're up to right now.
00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:22.719
Yeah, so I am a peer supporter for the NHS community mental health team, like you said.
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:25.519
Um, I'm also studying to be a therapist.
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I think I'll have a bit more than a year before I'm qualified, which is very exciting.
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:41.599
Um, I also recently launched Shrewsbury Soda Club, which is a sort of social community group for people who just don't want to drink or meet people who don't drink.
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Um, and I'm five years sober myself.
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I've got a lot of little side hustles and projects that I like to do.
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Um, and yeah, but it's been a long and winding road to get to this point, I think.
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And yeah, there's been there's a bit of a backstory there, but you know, I'm I'm very messy, I'm still figuring stuff out.
00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:05.920
Um, like you said, like I'll be the first to say, like, I don't know what's going on, you know.
00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:06.799
Who am I to know?
00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:17.120
I'm just I'm just a girl, I'm just trying my best to make the world a little bit of a better place, um, in whatever ways I can, and I I don't do it perfectly, that's for sure.
00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:20.159
I know, but that in itself is an inspiration, Charlie.
00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:21.759
You know, thanks.
00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:29.599
And in our last conversation, you did just want to touch on this, talk about a well-being hub.
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Yeah, okay, so this is not created yet, but I very much would like to, with my partner as well, who's also training to be a therapist, sort of create a well-being hub where we can offer lots of different types of well-being, I think, and and therapy, but also um a community space, um, maybe more alternative therapies and mindfulness stuff.
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Um, I think that would be really cool, and I have lots of ideas, but the practicality, um, you know, I'm still figuring out.
00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:01.919
Uh, but I do make things happen as well.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:04.879
I have a lot of half-finished projects, but I have a lot of finished projects.
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.639
I yeah, I started writing a book when I was about a year sober.
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I wrote it and then I forgot about it for about five years.
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So I'm kind of working on that at the moment, might self-publish it.
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Haven't really decided.
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Yeah, I'm I I can finish things.
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I can finish things, and I yeah, I would love to have this well-being have a place where people can just come together and do all sorts of different things that support their well-being, their happiness, help them live a fulfilling life, you know, go deeper with the sort of more therapy side.
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Um, my partners would like to do, you know, sort of crisis support and eco-therapy as well.
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So we have lots of ideas.
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We're very uh we're both neurodiverse, so we have a lot of there's a lot of ideas and there's a a lot of planning, and then sometimes fall through.
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But yeah, it's good.
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The ideas and the creative process are I don't know about you.
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For me, they kind of keep me going.
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And like you, you know, I might not finish everything.
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In fact, probably don't try lots of different things and uh and don't necessarily finish or succeed at many of them, but uh it's that creative process, isn't it?
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That's the the kind of drive, right?
00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:13.039
100%.
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I think creativity is so so important for me and my recovery, my well-being staying, you know, calm, staying grounded, but uh it just gives so much meaning to my life, like it allows me to express myself, you know.
00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:31.519
You come up with a lot of ideas to make things better and improve things.
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And you know, last night I got really obsessed with the idea of PSHE in schools and you know, learning stuff in school that people don't know about, you know, community and equality and psychoeducation and all the stuff that I've learned as an adult that I probably could have used, you know, learning in school.
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Um, yeah.
00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:54.639
So yeah, I get I get hyper-fixated on things and then yeah, but I love the creativity, and I think creativity looks different for everyone.
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Like I I also love art and I'm not very good, but I love it.
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Um, writing, uh, making music.
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My partner's actually quite good at that, but I'm just do it for the for the fun.
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I write like spoken word poetry and stuff, and just any way I can express myself, and you know, whether that's through projects and ideas, or you know, you might be a business owner or you might be a chef, and like there are just so many ways to be creative, and I think you can add so much to people's lives.
00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:19.759
Yeah.
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You said when we spoke the first time that you believe that if you put things out in the world with good intentions and if you're authentic, you'll be successful.
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Yeah, a hundred percent.
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I really, I really do believe that, and I think different people's idea of success looks different, of course.
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But if I am being authentic, I'm already successful.
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Um, that's that's how I feel anyway, and I'm doing my best and I'm being myself, and I think it's a really it's a really important thing for me to have, you know, especially working with people who are quite professional, whatever you think about that that word.
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Um we spoke about that the other day, didn't we?
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We did, yeah.
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Um, you know, being real, and I think you can you can be someone who is successful and like works hard and has projects, and you know, all of these things.
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I think the sort of traditional idea of success, or like the more corporate side or the more financial side, I think people are very discouraged from being real and being themselves, and there's a lot of fakeness, and um, you know, people have got a bit of a stick up their ass.
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I mean if I'm allowed to say that.
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Um, but I think being yourself, I just think it's so underrated, and like I think you can be just so successful and still be a bit silly, a bit whimsical, you know, be yourself, be real, be human.
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Everyone's human, every single person out there is human, and you know, I think it's a mistake to not embrace all of those aspects of ourselves, like in in whatever, whether that's in the workplace or in your personal life, you know.
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And if everybody did that, wouldn't the world be such a magical place?
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Because I'm kind of getting the uh the feeling, and you've just made me think of it, that this word professional it sounds so serious, and it kind of like you say, it almost compresses people into this kind of version of themselves which isn't authentic, you know, you've got to behave a certain way, you've got to look a certain way, you've got to earn a certain amount of money, you've got to live in a certain type of home.
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And if you just uh sort of threw off all those kind of I don't know shackles, I guess, that people are sort of raised with, you know, the whole education system just gets people ready um for that, then surely people would be able to be more authentic and be real and be themselves, which would in turn, I don't know, maybe create a happier, happier society.
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A hundred percent, I think so.
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And I yeah, I do see it as a sort of societal problem.
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And like you said, in schools, you're kind of put into this box and this mould and told that this is the way to be, this is the way to look, you know.
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And you know, I have pink hair, I wear silly clothes, my apartment looks like a rainbow with sick all over it, you know.
00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:04.240
Um apartment flat, I never say apartment.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.360
My flat looks like a rainbow exploded in here.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.120
Um and that's my style.
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.920
Also, people have different styles, but different ways to express themselves.
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But if it feels right to you and that's how you want to express yourself, and you're not doing it because you feel like you should, or because you feel like that's the attractive or desirable or successful professional thing, I think that's that's kind of what matters.
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:34.559
And yeah, that that word professional, it makes me think of that too, something so serious, so formal or authority, stuff like that, power dynamics, all of that.
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And I I think it's quite rebellious to be able to be yourself in in this sort of culture that we're in, especially in the sort of Western world.
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Um did just inadvertently call myself rebellious, but there we go.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.759
Um, yeah, it's tough, it's tough to do.
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I can see why there are so many constraints that are put in from society, but also I think by making small changes and just being more real and saying what you really feel and what you really think, even when you're at work, even when you're in these more professional settings, I think it just can be so empowering and freeing as well.
00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:06.159
Like you just stop caring.
00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:07.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.000
It is difficult, you're absolutely right.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:20.720
It is difficult, and um, yeah, you said that it is kind of seen as being rebellious, but really it's just being yourself, you know what I mean?
00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:30.639
And that, yeah, it's funny how almost controversial it is to be yourself when that is seems like the most obvious thing to be and to and to do.
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And that's not to say that you don't need things like I think sometimes when I say that I'm silly and that I'm whimsical and I don't really care, like in that way, I do care a lot about a lot of things, but I don't really care in that sort of sense.
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People think, oh, you're you know, you're not very trustworthy, or you're not respectful, or you don't have boundaries, and it's not about that, you know.
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All those things are really important, and yeah, the more serious stuff can be really important, but I don't see why everyone needs to wear a suit if they don't feel comfortable wearing a suit, you know.
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I just don't get it.
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I just don't I don't see the point.
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.759
I totally agree.
00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:06.080
We're gonna put the world to rights.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:06.879
I know.
00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:10.320
So, Charlie, take us back then, right?
00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:17.120
Because you've had a very um, how can I put it, interesting life, and you're only 28.
00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:19.120
What was life like for you growing up?
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:21.200
Very good question.
00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.879
Um, well, it's difficult to know where to start, but I will.
00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.919
Um, I guess when we were young kids, um my dad wasn't around really.
00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:36.799
There were some difficulties that he had with drinking and stuff like that, which I found really really hard.
00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:40.080
Um just not having him around, I found really difficult.
00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:46.080
We had very little money, felt quite responsible from my young age, you know.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:55.679
I was like to my younger siblings, I was almost another parent and you know, saw a lot, did a lot, and it was tough.
00:10:55.759 --> 00:10:57.600
Like, you know, it was it was really difficult.
00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.480
And you know, some of my mum's partners weren't the nicest.
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:07.200
And I was I think because of all that, because I had a very I was very aware, very in tune with everything that was going on.
00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.399
I felt very responsible from a young age.
00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:22.320
I felt like an adult, even when I was like six or seven years old, and I was you know worried about all the things that you worry about as an adult, like where are we gonna live and what we're gonna eat and do we have enough money and and stuff like that.
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:37.679
Um, I remember being sort of yeah, plagued by those things, and I think because of that, I was a very sort of anxious, sensitive child, and didn't really sort of fit in in primary school, I was very scared of mostly men.
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:50.879
Um, I remember there was one teacher who was like a supply teacher and he was quite strict and um I was very scared of him, and he made me well, I read out something and he made me stand up and I thought I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm in big trouble.
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:52.399
That's like an ongoing theme in my life.
00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:53.279
I'm in trouble.
00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:54.720
Um me too.
00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.759
Yeah, it's it's a hard one to cope with even now.
00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:02.639
But yeah, he made me stand up and I thought I was gonna be in trouble, and he was like, Please can you read that out again?
00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:05.519
And then he said, you know, are you gonna go to Oxford or Cambridge?
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.759
I didn't know what that meant, I was like eight years old, but then I told my mum, I was like, was he like being mean?
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:12.000
And she was like, No, he's saying you're really clever.
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:14.879
And I was like, uh, I didn't get that at all.
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:24.320
Um, so I think yeah, in primary school and like that sort of age, I was quite yeah, liked by my teachers and very sensitive, very shy, very responsible, I guess.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:35.840
Um, I didn't really fit in, especially at certain times we moved around a lot, and then kind of as I became an early teenager, I mean you're going through puberty as well, which is just horrendous for everyone.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.000
But the stuff in school, you're not really taught anything.
00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:44.480
I didn't really know anything that was going to happen to my body like before it happened, and I feel absolutely no shame about that sort of thing now.
00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:49.600
But at the time I was just like had so much shame, so so much shame.
00:12:49.759 --> 00:13:19.120
Um, and I felt powerless, I felt helpless in a lot of things at in my home life and at school, and then and then I discovered alcohol, and I was like, wow, this is great! Like, I'm not I don't feel anxious, I don't feel worried, I don't feel responsible, I feel powerful, I feel I'm funny, I'm cool, you know, and people started to like notice me and um people started to find me attractive and that and that gave me this sort of power, I guess, that I didn't know I I could have.
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:27.840
I think I've always felt very powerless, you know, not having a lot of money, being around a lot of scary men, and yeah, so I always felt very powerless.
00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:33.200
Um, and then that kind of made me feel powerful, and so it became a bit of a bit of a problem.
00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:43.600
And in school I sort of I think I had the sort of thing of like if I don't try then I can't sort of fail, and so I didn't really try, but I still did quite well in school.
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:54.960
Um, but I was a bit rebellious and I was very sort of controversial for the sake of being controversial, you know, and challenging a lot of the teachers' assumptions and like you know, making arguments with people and stuff like that.
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.799
Um, but yeah, almost in a performative way, like you know, I'm so different, da da da.
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.240
Um, which I've think I've managed to let go of a bit now.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:11.200
Um I remember my mum actually once in parents' evening was like, sounds like she was really thinking out of that the box in that situation, and the teacher was like, Oh, I was like trying to like have a go at her.
00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:12.799
My mum was grateful for that stuff to be fair.
00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:22.080
She was like, Yeah, she she just she just thought I was I was great and yeah, couldn't really do no wrong, but I think at the same time, you know, love her to death.
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:30.559
But yeah, there wasn't like a huge amount of boundaries, I was very much left to do sort of what I wanted, which yeah, which you know, I I did.
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:32.000
I did those things.
00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:35.440
Um just putting myself in lots of risky situations as well.
00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:54.480
Risky situations with drugs and alcohol and um meeting up with people who probably didn't have my best interests at heart, um, men, and yeah, I think that made me it made me feel powerful, but at the same time I sort of wasn't at the same time, I was quite vulnerable in a lot of ways.
00:14:55.039 --> 00:15:03.120
So you mentioned being involved in looking after your your younger siblings from a young age and worrying about all those things from six or seven.
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.039
I mean, what a weight to carry around.
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:10.399
So uh what did that do to you, uh you know, carrying that kind of responsibility as a child?
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.240
And how many siblings did you have, by the way?
00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.200
I have two younger siblings, and I would say so.
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.399
There's quite a big age gap between me and the the youngest one.
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.519
Um she's called May, and the other one's called Maisie.
00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:28.480
It's quite funny because they sound really similar, but uh May is gender fluid, so uses all pronouns and has chosen their own name.
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:32.320
Um, but it's just quite funny that it sounds a lot like Maisie, Maze and May.
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.360
Um, but it was mostly me and Maisie for a long time.
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:36.559
We're two years apart.
00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:42.960
Um, and then obviously when May was born, I was nine or ten, so May was a baby.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:16:15.440
And you know, I I I I find it difficult to talk about, I think, because my mum is amazing and like she did her absolute best, and like, you know, I think it I think it's a really common thing that happens with elder siblings, especially if there's only one parent and and there's like various partners around, they they do just take on that role naturally, like I think it I think it just does happen, but carrying the weight around, yeah, even now I can feel the heaviness of it, and as much work as I've done on myself and all of those things, I still feel responsible for my siblings.
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:21.039
I I am trying, I'm trying not to, but it's something that I've just always carried around with me.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:30.960
It's funny because Maisie is now 25 and she's got a baby, and I don't have any kids, but yeah, that worries me to no end.
00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:41.679
Um, and then May is 17 in college, but yeah, I just love them both so much and try to let go of some of my elder sibling uh responsibility mindset, but it is hard.
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.879
Yeah, so let's move on to university then.
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:53.120
You were the first in your family to go to university, you went to Liverpool University to study uh sociology and philosophy.
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:54.000
What was that like?
00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:09.519
Yeah, so I think it was it was great in a lot of ways, but I think you know I was quite I was quite well liked by my teachers in sixth form, and I did quite well, and then I went into a room where I actually was like pretty average, and that was like a bit of a knock to the confidence, I guess.
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:17.039
Pretty average to you would be incredible to me because I I couldn't have gone to Liverpool University.
00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:26.640
So I mean, even going there and doing it is is a massive achievement considering what you've been up against throughout your formative years.
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.279
Yeah, and I and I do see that.
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:38.799
I definitely do see that, and I think it's kind of it was less about the money because obviously what if you have if your parents, the family have less money, you get higher loans and grants and stuff.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.720
So I was like very lucky in that respect.
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.440
I've got a load of debt now, but it's absolutely fine, don't care.
00:17:43.680 --> 00:18:09.519
Um, I was very lucky in that respect, but I think it's more the culture, like the culture of like if you're quite working class and you've been brought up around that kind of culture, it's you know, it's not the norm to go to university, or you know, people quite worry about it because of the financial side, and I think it was just a bit of luck and a bit of timing that made me want to sort of apply, and I was also very mindful that there's a lot of privilege going on in uni.
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:11.039
I was really happy that I chose Liverpool.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.640
I think Liverpool is a fantastic uni, and there's a lot less of that I would say.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.480
I think I would really struggle in one of the more sort of prestigious unis.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:39.519
Um I know someone who has had that exact feeling, someone who's grown up in well poverty and was given sort of extra grants and stuff, and was touted for Oxford and Cambridge, but um went and had a look round and thought I don't fit in here.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.160
So ended up going to Newcastle, you know, where they felt they did fit in.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.839
But that's a kind of stain on our society, really, isn't it?
00:18:48.319 --> 00:19:03.920
Definitely, definitely, and it's I think it it's kind of a positive thing that they have more grants for people who are less privileged, but then you stick like one or two of those people in a group of everyone who went to private school, and that is my personal nightmare, you know.
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:58.079
I I think I felt very insecure, not about my intelligence so much as my sort of general knowledge, and like you know, I took I I met people in uni who you know they used to go to like national parks and go to museums with their family, and that was just like not something I ever did, and like I I didn't relate to it, and I didn't don't know much about sort of history and uh general knowledge and countries and politics, and like I just always felt a bit behind in that sense, I think, which um I've sort of struggled with and I love to learn as well, so I've you know I've sort of since then learned a lot and and know more, but because of that big sort of gap, like I'd still say, you know, I don't have a lot of knowledge in in those areas, and I think that that alone can make you feel like an alien in those sorts of groups because I remember actually my my ex-partner he went to Cambridge to do a master's, and I once went to visit him and was hanging out with some other people on the course.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.319
I did not know what was going on in the conversation.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.160
I was literally like, what is happening?
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:05.759
I don't know what topic we're talking about, like I truly don't understand.
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:08.880
Um, so yeah, I think that can be really, really hard.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.759
And um, but I I had a really good experience at Liverpool in terms of in in that respect.
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:15.519
I think Liverpool's a great city for it.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:22.640
It's not a very um well, it's not a very privileged place, but it's also I think met a lot of really down-to-earth people.
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:31.039
Um Does that highlight the fact that state education doesn't provide young people with what it needs to?
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:53.680
And by that I mean that if you're not fortunate enough to have access at home to parental import, you know, visits to museums, galleries, national parks, holidays, you know, those varieties of experiences you're not gonna get them from a state school system ultimately, which is obsessed with academia.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:21:03.519
Like you said, you know, you were you did well at school, but you didn't have that other sort of aspect to draw upon when you went to university.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.720
That's a very, very good question, and it's really hard to know.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:28.319
I think there's so many strands influencing this thing, you know, education, schools, um the sort of class system, politics, like it's all you know, and I I fully I'm for a full curriculum or like state curriculum reform because I just don't think it works.
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:55.599
Like I just don't, and um, you know, particularly with the pressure on young people, sort of social media, uh the sort of incel culture and manosphere is really is really difficult, I think, for young men, and figuring out where they fit into that, um, not understanding yourself, your mental health, your how your brain works, how your body works, that those sorts of things that are just so important to have well being and to live a full life um aren't encouraged and aren't taught.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.680
You know, I remember I'm sure it's a little bit different now, but in school I had one lesson of PSHE.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.200
week and it wasn't there was no exams, there was no projects, there was no there was no indication that it was important in any way.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.960
Like no and it was a joke.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:10.480
Like people didn't take it seriously.
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:23.440
I think we got like told off a few times about drugs, but no proper education around that and alcohol and you know I would have benefited so much from someone coming in someone cool, someone young being like hey guys like you know like a peer.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:25.440
If you drink too much, yeah, appear.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:26.000
Exactly.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:26.720
Exactly.
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:49.279
And I was saying this to my partner yesterday like it would be so cool if me and me and him could go, you know, because he's a man obviously and I'm a I'm a I'm a woman and um giving that sort of role model to to young women and young men and um and you know going in and like all it took I think when I was a teenager was for a teacher with tattoos to come in and swear a bit and I would be like yeah they're cool.
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:50.079
Like do you know what I mean?
00:22:50.160 --> 00:23:07.039
It doesn't take a lot and this uber professional like I'm better than you I'm authoritarian thing it doesn't teach people because they don't engage because they just think F you like I'm not listening to you you're stupid like you don't get me you're not on my level like so yeah I think a lot more of that would be great.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:34.960
I don't know how I'm gonna make this happen but I feel like I am but you should because I know what you mean but I absolutely know exactly what you mean because as we know through peer work you know people respond to people who are like them you know who've had similar experiences and um you know maybe look like them speak like them and like you say when you get these kind of um what would you what did you say?
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.039
People walking around with a stick up their ass.
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:57.119
Yeah yeah it just goes over your head doesn't it 100% a hundred percent like that relational aspect I think that's what's so amazing about peer work um and if we could bring that into schools at a younger age I think that would be amazing and yeah just sort of change the curriculum and shift the focus completely because I just think it's so incorrect.
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:40.079
And you know teaching kids about the different opportunities and equality and how you know people might be from a um more disadvantaged background and how that might influence them and just get people empathy lessons you know like communication lessons listening lessons like oh how is it gonna how's that person going to feel if I say this horrible thing you know and and and just not in a preachy way not in a judgmental way like they're figuring it out we're still figuring it out you know we're on a level like let's just talk like how do you feel you know school is shit like there's so much insecurity flying around hormones everything like it's so tough and just to acknowledge that and be like hey like I see you and I see that this kind of sucks but it truly doesn't last forever.
00:24:40.319 --> 00:25:13.519
The thing is though at the moment schools are judged aren't they on how many A stars or whatever they're even called now they they produce so they focus on on the subjects that you know are gonna produce these grades which in turn gives them more money from the government more people applying to go there and the important stuff the nitty gritty that you've just been talking about is seen as a um a nice to have instead of an essential so um I think there's a long road ahead to get that kind of change going on.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.400
So let's talk about the turning point then tell me about the night that you stopped drinking.
00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.039
Right?
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:42.559
What actually happened so yeah I'd so I'd obviously been to uni and um drank a lot didn't go to many lectures I did have a lot of really good times but I was pretty much nocturnal spent most of my time drinking not a lot of other stuff going on a lot of mental health issues sort of under the surface couldn't really decipher what they were or why they were happening.
00:25:43.279 --> 00:30:29.039
I also was kind of in the interested in sort of wellbeing stuff like I I liked yoga and meditation but I didn't really ever do them I just used them as sort of interesting talking points when I was out drinking um and yeah I think I was quite insecure quite seeking validation from other people and you know figuring out who I was as well but but also wanting to be liked wanting to be found attractive all of those things and not truly expressing my authentic self in the way that I I think I am now um and then obviously COVID happened that was the year after I finished uni which was a terrible year for my mental health I I did have a a job as a support worker but I was calling in sick a lot I was pretty much nocturnal I was I was eating terribly I wasn't sleeping well like all of those basic things weren't happening and then I ended up me and my ex-partner were living with his mum which was great and you know she really took care of us and I was acting in very questionable ways during that time and and she was really nice about it truly she was um and very grateful to her yeah so I think it was yeah it was just after Christmas and it was the 27th we had been it'd been one of those like street parties and um my ex-partner's mum was quite lived on quite a wealthy street I guess um and she actually lived next door to uh Stephen Moffat who wrote the Doctor Who so that was cool he was there I told him I was a writer he was like what do you do I was like I'm a writer and then I was like oh my god I didn't I didn't realise who you are which quite hilarious he was so nice to me though I think he liked me it was great um it's just so funny I was like oh I'm a writer by the way um and he's like yeah me too anyway but yeah it was there was a lot of older people a lot of very wealthy people and there's me just like drinking all this free proseco like everyone's socially distanced but I've probably had about 15 double glasses of prosecco and I'm you know vibing and then it's like four o'clock so it's obviously the winter and we go back inside and light the fire which is super cute but I'm really drunk and I'm like let's carry on drinking and my ex is like oh you know maybe maybe not maybe maybe you shouldn't and I'm like I'm gonna do it anyway so I'm drinking like rum and whiskey I think he was having like a beer anyway then I at a certain point I my my dad had messaged me didn't have a relationship with my dad really on and off we had spoken when I was a teenager he had I'm not sure if it was like a stroke or a seizure but he was basically brain damaged um and he did like regain his speech but I wasn't sure to like what extent and how he was now and what he remembered and what you know was going on with his brain and um whether he had some sort of like neurological difficulties stuff like that I didn't know so so yeah but he messaged me on this day just being like we should have a call and I was like yeah that sounds like a great idea um so I I called him um you know my partner at the time was like maybe this isn't a good idea and I was like I'm going to the bedroom I'm going to do it anyway from that moment I blacked out don't remember anything um apart from like a vague memory like a few hours later of me like screaming and crying and shouting at at him and yeah yeah I was it was very loud very messy um and then I woke up the next day I was actually meant to be nannying for the neighbours like as a little bit of part-time sort of work uh relaxed sort of working which I was like excited about anyway I had a meet I was meant to meet them meant to go around at like 11 that morning and I woke up and I felt horrendous I felt so bad like no one could pay me enough money to like go back to that moment because wow I felt bad my hair was like a bird's nest like I stamp of vodka for some reason I hadn't even been drinking vodka but I just smelt like vodka and I went to the toilet and I was sitting there and I was like eyes barely open like oh my god and then I just hear his mum say um can I have a word with you guys and I was literally like oh god I'm gonna get sick um and then my ex was like oh yeah what's up and and I just heard her through the wall like it's okay I'm just gonna w wanna wanna wanna wait for Charlie and I was just like oh no this is terrible and when I went in she basically it was an intervention really that was just her saying you know I'm I'm worried about you I I don't think you know it's a good time for you to be taking this nannying job working with kids like I'm I'm very worried about you and your mental health and your drinking which is just not what you want to hear especially as someone who you know I feel like a key part of my identity is like being a nice safe person that like you know I think kids usually love me and like not to say that that I did end up doing the nanny by the way and the kids did love me but yeah it was a real like kick in the face like I was like wow like I I I want to be a safe person and I I'm not being a safe person and that was hard.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:31:37.359
Wow what a story a big wake up call right yeah and it was a big wake-up call and I I I didn't drink I did dry January I was like okay I'm not gonna drink for January and then I was like okay I'm gonna go to my birthday then which is the end of February then I went to the end of March um my birthday that birthday I turned 23 so yeah I was 22 when I stopped drinking and just shortly after I turned 23 and then I got to the end of March and then I was like I'm not doing that ever again because I felt so much better and I still had a lot of issues a lot of trauma a lot of stuff to work through um I also have EUPD which we can talk about diagnosis I don't really put myself in like specific boxes but um it can be helpful to just sort of it was helpful for me to feel less alone and less because I think the the stigma with with that kind of um mental health struggle is you're manipulative you're doing things for attention da da da which like it I was doing things for attention I was doing them for connection for support I was crying for help you know and and I could see why I was doing the behaviours that I was doing but I couldn't stop myself from doing it.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:53.839
It wasn't malicious I wasn't trying to be manipulative but I could see with retrospect or with a bit of distance that that was kind of the reason you know I I needed to have that reassurance that validation that support um and I was you know really scared of losing losing someone and yeah.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:38.240
You're listening to Shoulder to shoulder by with you today we're hearing from Charlie on recovery sober community and the power of peer support so on the back of that and that is so reflective by the way um for someone so young I wish I had had that capacity at that age and I don't mean that in a patronizing sense I mean when I look back on my life and what I was doing at 27 which I still hold a lot of shame for I just wish that I'd had that kind of intervention by somebody but so on the back of all that you've started great things one of which is the sober club the sober social club in Shrewsbury.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.599
Tell us about that you know what was the gap that you kind of saw and how has it taken off already?
00:32:44.000 --> 00:37:26.480
Yeah so obviously I've been sober now for about five years and during that time I've done all sorts went back to uni to do philosophy moved to Italy for a year and throughout that whole time I think I was just desperate for connection and a lot of people my age are going out drinking and that's you know how they socialise and that's and that's fine that's great you know and I've I'm not one to judge whatsoever and I can be in those environments I find very noisy very crowded environments quite overwhelming but you know I don't mind going to a little bar like I'm sort of okay with that now but when I was at when I was doing my masters I created sober society and I didn't think anyone was going to show up and like it had like it's still going now which is great and it had so many members so I was just kind of thinking when I had to move back to my sort of hometown after I lived in Italy you know I've been thinking it for a while like oh it'd be great to meet some other sober people and I'm I'm sort of in the sort of wellbeing world or network within my within my town and I have met really great people through sort of yoga and wellbeing events and stuff like that but also I just wanted to create a space that yeah there's wellbeing stuff but also it's just social it's just fun um and there wasn't anything like that um in my town there's a great charity actually called Share Shrewsbury um in the town and uh the the founder of it Jane she's amazing she used to be the mayor um and I've met up with her and had great chats with her and they're kind of she she really sadly lost um her daughter to to alcohol so she shares that story and comes at it from a sort of harm reduction educational perspective and then obviously I'm going for the more social side so you know we're in we're in cahoots and uh little chats and stuff um and yeah I just saw a big gap and I've had so many responses like I'm not very good at like promoting or marketing or anything like that but you know there's there's been a lot of people reach out via email via message um to say yeah they want to they want to see more events they we did a sober disco which was a lot of fun um really really good and considering it was our first event which was a bit of a wild one to choose I think but it was our first event it went really really well um we had food we had a cozy corner with games we had music um yeah my friend John did the music he has like little vinyl decks it was it was just a lot of fun and then we've been doing uh sober little walks where we get a little coffee and just walk around like there's like the quarry which is like quite cute and it's by the river and it's got trees it's it's just cute it's just nice and then I'm sort of in the process of creating a um partially online partially in person a sort of peer support space basically I wanted to ask you about how you've kind of incorporated peer support into into all of this because literally what just jumped out at me then when you were talking about you know the walks and things like that it is very peery isn't it because it's almost um a way of people checking in and um having that sort of person that's maybe a little bit further along their journey um to kind of walk alongside them kind of literally um so yeah literally about how how how peer support is incorporated into everything you do such a such a good question and uh uh a really important point I think that was a real big motivator for me in creating Shrewsbury Soda Club because you know I'm I'm a lot I'm not an expert I wouldn't want I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be or put myself on that pedestal as sort of in charge or you know in any way authoritarian so I just yeah I want people's input I want to know what people want to do what they want to see and maybe get some more people involved as well like once I've sort of figured it out I think it's difficult because you want it I want it to be a certain way in terms of like be a really safe space and supported space and so you have to almost be a little bit cautious I guess because obviously yeah I think it's it I feel protective over it let's say that but I really want more people involved and more different perspectives and um it's a real like I think a real key value of of the group and even in even in my training as a therapist you know I notice a lot of similarities between person centred therapy and peer support you know doing all the stuff around the ways of communicating and being non-directive and that sort of thing is very um person centered therapy and I I love peer work so much and I love therap I love therapeutic work so much and you know finding a way to bring those align with my values my personal values and make therapy and maybe more uh stereotypically um clinical or like I'm doing this thing to you making those spaces more collaborative as well because why would why why shouldn't they be you know I I I think if we can go in that direction then the peer values will sink into so many different areas and I just think that would be so amazing for yeah lots of occupations lots of supportive occupations.
00:37:27.039 --> 00:39:46.719
Sounds amazing like literally I think it's it's just so fabulous to to hear um you talk about developing this because it's it's inspiring and uh I I've no doubt the people listening to it will um find it um inspiring too um let's go back to that kind of bigger dream that's bubbling away that we kind of touched on at the beginning that kind of well-being hub because I can visualize this it might be different to what you visualize but kind of paint me a picture what does it look like in your head I think what it looks like is a very I mean yeah it's definitely there's some like wrinkles to iron out and yeah like I said it hasn't been created yet but I would love to I would love to create a space that where people can just come in hang out maybe there's a little cafe there just place to chill maybe they've got sort of different groups different classes on like art classes or yoga or you know things like that just groups free groups um peer led groups right yeah yeah peer led peer led um maybe for different things as well like I there's actually a service like near me which is not exactly what I'm envisioning but kind of has a lot of similarities and yeah their peer-led groups are great and you know having having different supportive groups led by people with that lived experience I think is is would just be amazing and yeah incorporating lots of different things I think maybe some like uh doing some like CPD for um for everyone like there's with with our trust we have like the wellbeing and recovery college which is more sort of educational workshops stuff like that but really informative really like um co-produce everything like that really I I really love the work that they do so it'd be great to include something like that and then like the more sort of therapeutic side one-to-one therapy one-to-one coaching um I also do the EFT like tapping you know like somatic therapy stuff um that's kind of what I'm envisioning I think the the thing to sort of iron out is how to not have or how to have the appropriate sort of relationships and boundaries and not have the sort of dual relationships and things like that that I don't know exactly how that would look um but yeah it's all it's all in the pipeline and and at the moment I kind of uh I make lots of little little well-being things and uh write things and make stuff on my Instagram and I'm I want to make it's all kind of around I think messy healing is like the the main thing.
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:57.840
It's like getting better feeling good whatever that looks like for you in a way that's imperfect messy and and and suits you and and I've got lots of ideas for little things to create and just just spread the good vibes.
00:39:58.159 --> 00:41:12.800
You've also got an idea for a podcast haven't you nice segue into that yes um me and my partner um so we're our jobs are both in mental health um and we're both uh training to be therapists and we both have lived experience he has um schizo effective disorder which I think there's a lot of stigma around that and you know even before we were together I would say I didn't I wouldn't say I had a stigma towards it but I had a bit of uncertainty I didn't know very much about it and I was a little bit afraid and yeah stuff like that but um yeah I think it's really important to meet meet people and hear their stories and so so kind of sort of a um a well-being podcast if you like messy healing podcast around different topics different things that can be helpful for wellbeing but from that sort of lived experience lens um and then obviously you know having the the additional training and the knowledge from working in mental health and that side of things as well and yeah just like spreading what people might use to feel good and feel happy and you know never never directly never saying you need to do this to be happy and you need to do that that this is what it should look like like no everyone's different everyone you know it needs different things and it's taken me a long time to figure that out and figure out what exactly works for me.
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:21.440
And you described it as celebrating the messiness of healing you said I used to be chaotic bad now I'm chaotic good.
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:55.199
I love that yeah yeah truly like um me and James talk about my little niece she's she's uh she's almost two now and she is like the embodiment of chaotic good she's like a little like she's like a little terror but she's just so pure and innocent and beautiful and like that's that's how I feel now I feel you know I am a bit messy I am a bit chaotic like my fat gets into a state sometimes I'm late for things I forget things you know but I think my intentions are good I I live as as much as I can in alignment with my values and the things that are important to me.
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:13.599
I show people kindness I try not to judge um I put things out there with good intentions and I just kind of see what happens and I think trusting that I where I am right now is the right place for me to be where I'll go in the future will be the right place for me to be and having that yeah that kind of radical acceptance as well has been really important for me.
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:57.039
And because life will happen life is hard and lots of external situational things happen and if you can foster a little bit of loving acceptance you know and that's not to say pushing feelings away if you're angry feel angry if you're upset feel upset you know but I think having that gratitude in my life and that acceptance for the things that have happened to me and also knowing that they have made me the person that I am now and you know I don't wish any of it didn't happen because I truly wouldn't I wouldn't be in in this like area wouldn't be doing peer work I wouldn't I probably wouldn't know anything about this sort of world you know and and maybe I would be more sort of quote unquote stable but I don't think I would enjoy it.
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:39.920
You know I might be doing something more medium and more boring and like you know I think to to be put in the place where you are so distressed you couldn't possibly do another day that builds so much resilience and so much um almost you you feel like you have to get so much out of your life because it's like I've been in a place where I couldn't last another day you know I've been in a place where I didn't want to be here anymore and I just you know and and it's like with the drinking like if I didn't take it too far I never would have stopped and I think that's the best thing I ever did you know and I think being sober is fantastic and I if I had been good at moderating my my alcohol um I'd probably still be drinking now you know and I and I might not be as happy and fulfilled as I as I am now because of that.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:52.800
So yeah I'm just I'm really grateful for everyone in my life I've got some amazing people in my life who have helped me amazing people in services as well as much as it's also been difficult at times but yeah I'm I'm yeah I'm just very grateful.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:44:03.119
So just a couple of points to wrap up then Charlie so you're 28 when you think about The twelve year old girl who first picked up a drink.
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.239
What do you wish you could have known?
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.960
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:13.840
I guess I could have known I wish I could have known that things will get better.
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:22.159
Um that there's no shame in how you're feeling, you know, how your body's changing, what your thoughts are.
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:27.039
Um I wish I had known that there are ways to be powerful that didn't involve drinking.
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.079
But again, I don't think I would change it.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:36.320
I think I would just if I could go back and give myself a lot of love and a lot of just like, hey, you're gonna be okay.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:43.840
Um and maybe take away some of that shame and just have have more of those open conversations because I just think that was what was lacking, you know.
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:56.960
And I think especially in this country, people can be a little bit prudish, um, which I I completely understand, but I think just bringing that into schools, into families, like let's talk, you know, what what what's going on in your mind?
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:05.679
Because it's so it's so lonely when you're struggling with your mental health and you're having all these thoughts, but you don't feel able to express them because they give you a lot of shame.
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.440
Um, whether that's around mental health or sexuality, that was a big one for me as well.
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:15.360
And I think just opening up the conversation, being like, whatever you want to say, it's okay.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.679
Like it's okay, it's okay to be thinking these thoughts and to be having these feelings that you're having.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:20.400
Sure.
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:30.960
And for anyone listening who's really struggling right now, maybe um perhaps they are kind of in a similar place to where you were a few years ago.
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.440
What would you want them to hear?
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.519
Oh, that's a good question.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:46:02.559
I think I would like them to to know and to to hear that they're okay as they are, and who they are, you know, is nothing to be ashamed of, and and those experiences that they might have had, whether that's around mental health, addiction, whatever their lived experience is, you know, there are gonna be people out there who understand, who get it, and there are ways to get through this.
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:13.360
And as difficult as things get, there is that light, there is there is hope, and I think especially with the world how it is now, it can be really, really challenging to see that hope.
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:32.559
But if you can hold on to even the smallest, little part of that, you know, there might be amazing things waiting for you on the other side, and it and yes, it might be a long and winding road, a very difficult journey, but there are ways to live your best life, you know, to live a fulfilling life that you want to live.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:38.239
There are ways to get there and have a little bit of trust, have a little bit of hope, a little bit of patience.
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:39.760
And I know it's hard.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:49.119
Talk talk to people as well, you know, if you can, if there are people around, if if there are services that are positive, and um, if you can get peer support, that's even better.
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:55.280
Um, and yeah, just talking about it, I think, and taking it out of your head and and showing that vulnerability.
00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:01.599
So I think showing vulnerability is is really underrated, and and I think it can be so hard for some people, particularly men.
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:04.320
And I think there's no shame in being vulnerable.
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:11.920
We're all human, we're all people, we've all got you know stuff going on in our heads, no matter where you're from or what you've been through.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:21.840
No one in the world gets through this life without a problem or a or a difficulty or a mental health problem, or you know, that it's just it's just not a thing that happens.
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:29.519
It's it's we're all in this together, and finding people who sort of speak your language and maybe have similar lived experience to you.
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:39.039
Um is so powerful, and it I just helped me feel so much less alone when I yeah, when I got in touch with the sort of sober community and other people who have had similar experiences to me.
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:42.800
It's it was an amazing thing, and also there's a lot of that online, you know.
00:47:42.880 --> 00:48:04.800
As much as I I tend to slate online, there are I my first like sober community was all online, and I didn't know anyone in person who was sober, so it it really helped me, it really supported me reading those books about sort of changing my mind about alcohol, reading books about mental health, just just understanding myself better, I think, and being curious about hey, what's actually going on and and where did this begin?
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:15.039
And um, it's a it's a lot of work, but now I like to say that I can still I still have all these monsters right in my mind, but I'm not afraid to look at any of them anymore.
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:17.280
There are none that are like hiding.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:30.239
I can look every single one of those monsters and those demons in the eye and be like, hey, I know you, I've seen you, I've talked about you, you know, even the even the worst ones that filled me with so much shame, and I never thought I would utter to another soul.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:40.159
I've now uttered to another soul, and and that it has brought me so much relief and just being able to look at all those dark corners of my mind that I didn't want to look at for so many years.
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:42.559
It's really hard, it's really, really, really hard.
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:44.239
But once you've done it, you've done it, you know.
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:45.920
The monster isn't that scary when you look at it.
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:47.440
It's like, oh yeah, I can see you.
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:52.320
You know, when you turn the lights on, the monster's just a just a figure, like, hey, I see you, you know.
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.519
That's a it was when it's in the dark that it's really scary, right?
00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:57.360
Um sure.
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:02.719
Look, I could sit and chat with you all day because I think you're fascinating, you're inspiring.
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:17.519
You are a peer support worker, trainee therapist, founder of the Shrewsbury Sober Club, and someone who I think genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, is gonna do so much good in the world, even more than you're already doing.
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:19.119
And uh, I want to thank you today.
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.679
It's been an absolute joy to speak with you.
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.519
Thank you, and and same to you.
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:25.920
I just I think you're God's gift to earth.
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:29.199
So, yeah, thank you so much for having me, and and it's been great to chat.
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:31.199
Um, and yeah, thanks.
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:34.320
That's it for this episode of Shoulder to Shoulder.
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:36.800
Thanks to Charlie for sharing her story.
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:42.400
For more support and more stories, head over to withdashnew.co.uk.
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:49.760
And if you're enjoying the conversation, please subscribe to the channel to follow the podcast and share this with someone.
