Inside the Mind Under Lockdown| N.Chamchoun

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Welcome back to another episode of Shit, That's
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Just Life podcast with your favorite life coach,
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me, Cecile. Today, we're diving into a personal
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and thought -provoking conversation about creativity
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and resilience and the emotional journey of the
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lockdown. I'm joined by author N Chenchun to
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explore the heart behind their book, COVID, the
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Worldly Wild of a mine under lockdown. Let's
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get into it. For those just discovering your
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work, how would you describe this book in your
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own words? A commentary on the shared experience
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of the epidemic and being under lockdown because
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it was shared experience. It was a global experience.
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We were all under lockdown and all kind of sort
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of having to face our demons and then sort of
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kind of do a little bit of work and introspection
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on ourselves. What was the part of yourself that
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you were able to now notice, reflect on? I think
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the part of myself that I was probably able to
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sort of reflect on was that, you know, I think
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my my confidence and my sense of self had probably
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ebbed away over the years where I'd kind of taken
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a back seat because obviously I mean I was a
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mother of four children and I was putting my
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children first and putting my own needs. last
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and I think sort of what COVID did was it gave
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me a time to kind of examine myself a little
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bit of soul searching and just to sort of reconnect
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with myself and say that you know I am a person
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of worth and that you know I can do this because
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I think you know as I told you I always wanted
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to be a writer as a young child but after I got
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married I kind of dismissed it. you know, a foolish
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dream that it could never happen, it was not
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accomplishable for me, that I wasn't necessarily
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good enough. We were all kind of in that lockdown.
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Did it bring down confidence or would you say
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it helped you gain your confidence because you
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were able to kind of sit down and think through
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things? I think it actually helped me gain confidence
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and I would say it helped me gain confidence
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because what it does is I suppose it it examines,
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say, I mean, certain aspects of it examines past
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trauma. And I find that poetry is very therapeutic
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in the sense that it allows you to sort of kind
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of dissect your thoughts and your feelings and
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make sense of them. And, you know, in a sense,
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come to peace with them. Okay. No more COVID
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for me. It gave me a lot of downtime to actually
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self -reflect. you know, pick out my pros and
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cons. What are the things that I want to be better
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at in life? How do I want to challenge myself?
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How do I be, how to continue to be less harsh
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on myself, more self -love, you know, being very,
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very light and gentle with myself? It's necessary
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in life because I mean, I think often probably
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we're hardest on ourselves. than anybody else
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could possibly be. We're our own worst critic
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a lot of the time, and I think it's a valuable
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skill to learn just to be kinder to yourself.
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Yes, I think especially being able to do it,
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it was just an unfortunate time that we had to
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go down on the lockdown, but it was also fortunate
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to be able to go through that self -reflecting
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process. Oh, a lot of people time to kind of
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explore things that maybe they were interested
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in or they had wanted to learn, but they hadn't.
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I mean, I certainly noticed that during COVID,
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people were learning to play musical instruments
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or learning a new language or exploring others.
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So I think it certainly provided us with that
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because we had a lot of time on our hands and
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we could finally devote that time to those things
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that we had neglected in our day -to -day lives.
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What moment or feeling during the lockdown really
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sparked the idea to start writing? I started
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writing naturally. I mean, I got like the first
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two lines or the first stanza of a poem in my
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head and I kind of just wrote it down. And I
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wasn't necessarily writing. as a serious writer
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with the intention of having it published or
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anything like that it just it was just for the
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inspiration came at that time and then I started
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writing that particular poem and then afterwards
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I mean I'd seen I think a poetry competition
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which and I submitted that piece to the to the
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competition and I didn't hear that from the competition
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so I assumed that obviously I hadn't done very
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well but then A publisher contacted me and said
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that they'd seen the poem, they were really interested
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in a manuscript, did I have a manuscript of 3
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,000 words or more? I didn't at the time but
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I said I could certainly get one so I started
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writing like mad and then I finally had the full
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collection and I was like yes okay I have the
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collection now, are we going to publish? And
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then the publisher turned around and said yes
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yes of course we're going to publish, we love
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the book blah blah blah. They're going to charge
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you £5 ,000 to publish. So it was a vanity press.
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So at that stage, I just thought, well, I'm not
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going to pay to have my work published. I wouldn't
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want my work to be published on merit in that
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direction. Because to be honest, when I first
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started writing that poem, I had no idea. I had
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no intention of actually pursuing being published
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seriously at that stage. So it was more of like
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a process that you had to go through before you
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can actually publish it. Yeah. Okay, getting
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into the whirlwinds of a mind under lockdown.
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I was very curious as to why was it important
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for you to capture your thoughts during that
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specific time. No, it was important because I
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thought that it was something that probably most
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people could relate relate to in the sense that
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we were all under lockdown and most of us with
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our family or with close ones or we couldn't
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see, you know, family because of the lockdown
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and things like that and I just and you know,
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I was going through a certain amount of emotional
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upheaval with myself with my father's diagnosis
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with Alzheimer's and then sort of having a sort
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of a stressy teenagers in the house where each
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other's throat half of the time and then then
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menopause where it's like my mood was sort of
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you know up one minute down the next where I
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just felt like I had nothing to live for and
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it was kind of a mishmash of Emotions and then
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I I started writing them down because I because
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it certainly helped me as I said It is a very
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therapeutic process But at the same time I also
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thought well, you know This is probably something
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that probably a lot of people can identify with
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whether it's you know things like mental health
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or whether it's you know, like loss or Your identity,
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you know when we're questioning who y 'all what
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our purpose is in life Okay, I'm wondering While
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you're speaking about that, how was the process
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emotionally? I can only imagine. And I was prompted
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to write that book because what happened was
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I was examined at 13 and it was very traumatic
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for me and I kind of like blocked it completely
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out of my head. I didn't really think about it
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again. I kind of just shrugged it off as just
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something that had to be done and I had no saying.
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And I think it wasn't until I was pregnant when
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I was 18 and I went to the doctor and I had a
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vaginal examination and it was kind of like suddenly
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the trauma just came rushing back at me. It was
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like flashbacks and I was actually hyperventilating
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and I didn't realise just how much that event
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itself had affected me because I had kind of
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like shut it out of my mind for so long. Okay,
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I can see that because it seems like it was just
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everything coming up at once yeah and i think
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so like i mean for that piece that was prompted
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by that experience because i realized i had just
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buried the trauma rather than actually confronting
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it and dealing with it i noticed that the title
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suggests this it kind of suggests chaos and exploration
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yeah what what did you really discover about
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your mind that really surprised you. What do
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you think discovered? What do you think you discovered
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that really surprised you about your mental?
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Probably, you know, a lot stronger than I thought
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I was. And I discovered, I suppose, that writing,
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that passion for writing again, because I hadn't.
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written for many, many years when I was parenting
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my children and it opened that gateway for me
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and I suppose in a sense, writing itself by writing,
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it gave me that direction in life as well, is
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that I can pursue this, I'm capable of doing
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this. Was it like a lot of self -doubt at first?
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Definitely, as I said, because I started going
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through menopause and then my children had left
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home, my third son was about to go to university
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and I was feeling kind of like surplus to requirements.
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Like what do I do now? Like everything coming
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at once and you're like on an emotional rollercoaster.
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Yeah. I can see that. And I can only imagine
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how you were able to navigate and put this to
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a pen to paper. You know, reliving, or not even
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reliving, living through those emotions and then
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sitting down able to put it pen to paper, express
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everything that's going on mentally, you know?
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I can see that being a roller coaster trying
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to navigate. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know,
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it's emotionally draining with some pieces where
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I've just got completely emotionally drained
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after I've written it. When was the moment where
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you're like, I feel relieved now? Yeah, I think,
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you know, like... not necessarily when I was
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writing it because I mean what I tend to do is
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if I write a piece I'll write it and I'll kind
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of like leave it alone and come back to it maybe
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a day later so when I was writing I did find
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it very emotionally challenging but I think you
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know like a day after I came back to the piece
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and then I read through the piece and you know
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and I felt really good about it and I felt at
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peace with it and I thought you know like there
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isn't I've kind of resolved that internal conflict
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within me, and I feel kind of at peace with this
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now. There's also a piece in there about menopause,
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because as I said, I started menopause, and I
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think, you know, writing through that kind of
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roller coaster of emotions, I mean, menopause
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sometimes feels like a second adolescence, I
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mean, you know, you're just going from one mood
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to the next. But I mean, I felt like writing
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about it certainly helped. What was the pros
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and cons of the experience of going through menopause
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while being in lockdown? What are some pros and
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cons? I'm not sure there were too many pros because
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I suspected I was going through menopause but
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I wasn't necessarily sure and I wasn't able to
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see a doctor. I tried to call a doctor, I couldn't
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get through to a doctor and then I, you know...
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I've contacted, I kept on contacting and contacting,
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and I think they said they wouldn't be able to
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see me in person. And I said, well, you know,
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you're going to need to see me in person in order
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to take blood to assess whether I am actually
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menopausal. And I think that was probably about,
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it wasn't until they started easing lockdown
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that I actually went to see. the doctor and then
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I had the tests and everything and he said yes
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sort of like you're a sort of a perimenopausal
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you're going you're going into menopause. Like
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I said I wasn't even sure that I was menopause
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I suspected it and it was kind and so I think
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that was the con of that situation it was the
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not knowing is it menopause or is it something
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else. Was it with would you say the pros would
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be like? The in the end game of it like you you
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being able to come out with a book and talk about
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your experience I would think that will probably
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be the prose of it all. Oh absolutely yeah definitely
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I think you know because I wanted to write a
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piece about menopause because I mean you know
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it's something that affects all women at some
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stage in their life so it's certainly something
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that's relatable and I would like to think that
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you know people that do reading you know they
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get some sense of purpose out of it that you
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are Important that you're not you know, it's
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not the end of the road for you just because
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you know, you're going into menopause There's
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still life after menopause Is there any specific
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advice that you can give to someone that is going
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through or? That will go through menopause and
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may find yourself in a lockdown situation while
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going through Menopause is there any advice that
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you could suggest? I think the only advice I
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would give is probably try to eat a lot of foods
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that are rich in soy products or things like
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that because apparently that's very good for
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topping up your low estrogen levels. Okay, so
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staying focused on your health while you're staying
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focused on your health, trying to eat things
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that will sort of like help increase your estrogen
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levels and sort of kind of balance out the moods.
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Okay, so with that being said, looking back,
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what part of that experience still stays with
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you the most? What part stays with me the most?
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I think certainly the writing aspect of it because
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that's where the writing journey started for
00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:12.480
me was during lockdown. But I think also there
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was the aspect of having my two youngest sons
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at home. I'm not to say it wasn't without its
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stress having two teenage boys in the house but
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at the same time it also gave us a lot of shared
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family time together and I did enjoy that. Yeah.
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I mean, I can only imagine how old were your
00:15:34.750 --> 00:15:38.269
boys at that time? Well, I mean, my my youngest
00:15:38.269 --> 00:15:42.809
son, I think was 14 and my my other son was 16.
00:15:43.590 --> 00:15:48.210
Oh, okay. So they're up in that age. I have like
00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:51.429
nieces that around that age. So I totally understand.
00:15:51.490 --> 00:15:54.779
They're kind of up there, especially. Yeah. Then
00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:57.320
you had all of obviously all the disruptions
00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:59.980
with school where they had to be doing sort of
00:15:59.980 --> 00:16:03.700
online learning. Yeah. Everything was from home.
00:16:04.419 --> 00:16:08.679
Everything. So I can only imagine what kind of
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.799
piece you can get when everything's at home.
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:17.840
The piece is very limited. The self me time is
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.340
very limited. So I can only imagine. Definitely
00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:24.080
and I was the main care of my parents as well
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:27.200
and you know and I was always so nervous about
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.279
you know who I was in contact with or what you
00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:32.379
know that I might pick up something and pass
00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:34.600
it on to my parents because they are very elderly
00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:36.919
and vulnerable you know if they got COVID it
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:38.779
could possibly kill them and I was you know it
00:16:38.779 --> 00:16:43.549
is a constant worry. So it was like a real anxious
00:16:43.549 --> 00:16:47.409
time for you when you were going through COVID.
00:16:47.669 --> 00:16:51.049
Just being anxious of, will I pass it to somebody?
00:16:51.169 --> 00:16:53.929
Am I going to catch it? I'm helping these people.
00:16:54.370 --> 00:16:57.750
I'm helping my people. I don't want to bring
00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:00.009
nothing over. I'm trying to be extra safe. So
00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:03.289
it sounds like you were on edge during that time
00:17:03.289 --> 00:17:10.440
a lot. Definitely, yeah. What would you say,
00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.420
what does creativity mean to you now compared
00:17:14.420 --> 00:17:20.059
to before the lockdown? I think, you know, creativity,
00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:25.960
what it means to me, it's kind of like, I think
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:30.720
it's an emotional narrative on life. You know,
00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:34.940
like, for example, poetry is, you know, express
00:17:34.940 --> 00:17:39.920
emotional expression. in words, and what we try
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:45.299
to do as writers is invoke that same emotion,
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.980
the emotion that gave us that inspiration for
00:17:48.980 --> 00:17:51.779
that piece to invoke that same emotion in our
00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:59.359
readers. So was that your same mindset before
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:01.960
COVID, before the lockdown, or did it take you
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.529
a while to get to that place? I think it took
00:18:04.529 --> 00:18:06.130
me a while to get to that place because, you
00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:08.970
know, it's not like I haven't written terrible
00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:11.569
poetry before. I have written some terrible pieces.
00:18:11.809 --> 00:18:14.009
I've kind of come back to them later and thought,
00:18:14.009 --> 00:18:16.750
oh, this is absolutely no good. I sort of like
00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:19.549
deleted it. So, yeah, I think it was a gradual
00:18:19.549 --> 00:18:22.549
process where I kind of sort of just got to the
00:18:22.549 --> 00:18:27.430
point where I thought, you know what, I'm at
00:18:27.430 --> 00:18:30.410
a point now where I think, you know, I understand
00:18:30.410 --> 00:18:35.220
my emotions better. and I've made sense of them,
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.380
so I can understand why I feel this way or why
00:18:38.380 --> 00:18:41.960
I feel that way. And there may be many people
00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.579
out there who don't necessarily understand why
00:18:45.579 --> 00:18:49.759
they're feeling this way. And so when I was writing,
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:53.220
I was thinking, okay, let me try to create some
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.799
sort of structure where the person reading it
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:57.539
can make sense and think, actually, yeah, this
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.059
makes sense, this helped me. This helped me sort
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:05.019
of emotionally unravel what I was feeling. Okay,
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:07.900
so did writing this change how you understand
00:19:07.900 --> 00:19:12.069
your own mind and resilience? Oh, definitely.
00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:14.710
Oh, absolutely. I think, you know, I think, you
00:19:14.710 --> 00:19:18.170
know, sort of to get published, you know, I mean,
00:19:18.170 --> 00:19:20.390
I got published at 51, you know, if you told
00:19:20.390 --> 00:19:24.670
me in my 20s or, or in my, in my 30s that I would
00:19:24.670 --> 00:19:26.450
be published at 51, I would have thought that
00:19:26.450 --> 00:19:29.349
you were crazy, you know. So, but I mean, to
00:19:29.349 --> 00:19:30.809
get published, I think, you know, that's probably
00:19:30.809 --> 00:19:33.269
one of the biggest confidence boosts you can
00:19:33.269 --> 00:19:36.089
get. It's about a publisher has seen your work
00:19:36.089 --> 00:19:37.990
and they've, they've liked what they've read
00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:40.960
and they think that it's worth publishing. people
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.099
should be exposed to it. So I think, you know,
00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:45.940
that's the biggest confidence boost you can get.
00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:50.779
So yes, so when I landed my publisher with the
00:19:50.779 --> 00:19:54.319
first book, you know, I think, yes, I can do
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.640
this. I can actually do this. So speaking of
00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:01.599
that, like, were there a lot of moments where
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.259
it was like unexpected growth that surprised
00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:08.240
you while you were writing? Yeah, I mean, definitely,
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.099
I think so. I think my parents were always very
00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:15.640
critical growing up. So I think, you know, I
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:17.980
had that narrative in my head where I was always
00:20:17.980 --> 00:20:21.059
very critical of myself, where even when I achieved
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.259
something, I would underplay it and say, well,
00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:25.400
you know, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:28.380
was a conversation I had with my sister where
00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:30.240
I was talking to her because I was looking for
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:32.099
a publisher for the second book. And then I was
00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:34.910
like, I'm not sure that it's going to happen
00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:37.950
to me again. I think maybe the first publication
00:20:37.950 --> 00:20:40.730
was just beginner's luck. And then my sister
00:20:40.730 --> 00:20:44.089
said to me, listen to yourself. Tamina, if you
00:20:44.089 --> 00:20:48.690
knew an author who had been published, would
00:20:48.690 --> 00:20:51.150
you say to them, oh, it's just beginner's luck,
00:20:51.309 --> 00:20:52.890
that it's not going to happen again? Or would
00:20:52.890 --> 00:20:57.200
you be really proud of them and impressed? That's
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.319
probably obviously the latter. And so she said,
00:20:59.420 --> 00:21:01.180
well, why do you think that this is an acceptable
00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:04.680
way to speak to yourself? And I think it was
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.599
that moment of clarity where I kind of examined
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.460
that question. And I thought, actually, you know,
00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:11.539
you have a point. It's not acceptable to speak
00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:16.299
to ourselves so unkindly. But I think I had always
00:21:16.299 --> 00:21:18.819
had that narrative in my head because my parents
00:21:18.819 --> 00:21:22.880
growing up were also very critical. And you know
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:29.200
what I really question? Why do the artist, the
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:34.940
one with the talent, why can't they stop and
00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:40.279
recognize that they are the art? Why is this
00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:45.380
so hard to recognize that your domestic piece
00:21:45.380 --> 00:21:50.740
behind this, that you've created this baby is
00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:56.420
now blossomed? You know, what is so What is the
00:21:56.420 --> 00:22:01.680
difficult part of noticing that you've found
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:05.599
a goal, you've accomplished the goal, and now
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:09.259
you should just sit back and reward yourself,
00:22:09.579 --> 00:22:12.000
pat yourself on the back, understand that you've
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.839
gotten through a major milestone, especially
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:21.059
when it comes to authors, writers, storytellers.
00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:25.549
It takes a lot to tell a story. it takes a lot
00:22:25.549 --> 00:22:30.430
to go through an experience and say to yourself,
00:22:31.210 --> 00:22:33.390
I want to reconnect. I want to connect this with
00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:36.390
the next person. I want to go from private to
00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:41.490
publish. You mean public. So it takes a lot to
00:22:41.490 --> 00:22:44.930
do that. So it's like, when do you stop and recognize
00:22:44.930 --> 00:22:48.509
that you've done it? You've you've done it. You've
00:22:48.509 --> 00:22:51.789
done the goal. You've gotten to the goal. You
00:22:51.789 --> 00:22:55.930
don't have to rush to the next book. You already
00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:58.410
know the next book is going to come. You know
00:22:58.410 --> 00:23:00.950
you're going to do it. You did the first one.
00:23:01.230 --> 00:23:04.390
You don't have to rush the process. This is very
00:23:04.390 --> 00:23:07.109
common within artists. I've met so many artists
00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:09.710
and I think a lot of us stuff are from imposter
00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:12.849
syndrome. Yeah, it's like living the moment.
00:23:13.430 --> 00:23:16.210
Somebody once described me as a writer and I
00:23:16.210 --> 00:23:19.250
was like, well, really? I'm not sure about that.
00:23:22.129 --> 00:23:25.210
Yeah. You're not just a writer, but writer is
00:23:25.210 --> 00:23:28.430
one of your titles. One of your many tools in
00:23:28.430 --> 00:23:30.849
this, in your belt. You give them that. You don't
00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:33.529
put yourself in a box when there's so much more
00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:38.029
to you, you know? And the book shows it. Like
00:23:38.029 --> 00:23:40.910
you say, that you went through publishing. You
00:23:40.910 --> 00:23:43.190
didn't just write the book and then hand it off.
00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:46.509
You actually took care of the book, watched it
00:23:46.509 --> 00:23:49.500
grow. went through emotional roller coasters
00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:52.460
trying to get the book out, finally got the book
00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:56.420
out, had a pep talk along the way, and now the
00:23:56.420 --> 00:24:00.259
book is here. It's relatable, you know? It's
00:24:00.259 --> 00:24:05.279
about people that were going through mental reflections
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:10.019
during lockdown. You know? Self -reflection,
00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:13.900
mental reflection, trying to grow that mental...
00:24:14.140 --> 00:24:17.740
you know, be more gentle to that mental. It was
00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:20.299
a process. It's not an easy process. It's not
00:24:20.299 --> 00:24:21.900
something that's done overnight, and it's something
00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:26.880
we still continue to have to nurture every day.
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:32.539
Yeah, absolutely. So, as a writer, as an author,
00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:38.799
as an artist, I'm always curious what's the hesitation
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:42.059
of just stopping, living in a moment, and recognizing
00:24:42.059 --> 00:24:45.079
your work? you know, living in the work, organizing
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.859
that, hey, that's my story. I put it out there,
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:53.299
you know. Yeah, I mean, I'm always eager. Sometimes
00:24:53.299 --> 00:24:55.480
you kind of feel under pressure because, like,
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:57.380
you know, once you've had a book published and
00:24:57.380 --> 00:24:59.819
then, like, whenever you meet family or you meet
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:01.740
friends, like, oh, so when's the next book coming
00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:05.039
out? When's the next book coming out? Oh, my
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:10.019
God, the pressure. Oh, OK, I can see it. It's
00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:12.180
like, um. I think you're nervous because it's
00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:14.779
like, once something is done, it sounds like
00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:17.000
you're first nervous if you're going to actually
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.279
succeed. The first part is like, will I succeed?
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:23.140
Will this get to where I hope it's going to be
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:25.759
in my brain, you know? Yeah. And then when it
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:30.500
gets there, the next question is, when's the
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:32.779
next one? Another book, are you working on this?
00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:35.400
And I'm like, if I'm not working on it, then
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:38.920
I feel like I'm being lazy or I'm procrastinating
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:46.670
or I'm not. as active as I should be. So there's
00:25:46.670 --> 00:25:50.329
always a kind of that pressure where people are
00:25:50.329 --> 00:25:53.029
expecting the next one. And I'm just like, oh
00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:55.250
gosh. In those moments, because I've had those
00:25:55.250 --> 00:25:58.750
moments before, even just as somebody that's
00:25:58.750 --> 00:26:02.990
interviewing people and looking into different
00:26:02.990 --> 00:26:08.029
ways to expand. I think that The best way to
00:26:08.029 --> 00:26:10.990
answer that question is to, like, especially
00:26:10.990 --> 00:26:12.829
when others are coming up to you asking you,
00:26:12.849 --> 00:26:14.390
hey, when's the next one? When's the next one?
00:26:14.789 --> 00:26:18.509
I think the best answer would be, hey, I don't
00:26:18.509 --> 00:26:20.150
let my left hand know what my right hand's doing.
00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:24.269
I've ran into those moments where I dropped the
00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:28.089
episode or when I had an interview and then somebody
00:26:28.089 --> 00:26:29.970
in my family's like, so when are you coming out
00:26:29.970 --> 00:26:32.809
with your next one? So who are you going to interview
00:26:32.809 --> 00:26:35.710
next, you know? So it's just like when you write
00:26:35.710 --> 00:26:37.710
a book and then your family asks you or your
00:26:37.710 --> 00:26:39.170
friends ask you, so what are you doing next?
00:26:39.250 --> 00:26:41.289
Are you working on a book? Are you writing anything?
00:26:41.609 --> 00:26:43.269
You're probably writing something, right? Whole
00:26:43.269 --> 00:26:45.410
time you're probably at home doing nothing. But
00:26:45.410 --> 00:26:48.450
as artists, that's how your brain flows, you
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:51.190
know? Yeah. And I think you should light off
00:26:51.190 --> 00:26:53.529
the pressure and just tell yourself, I don't
00:26:53.529 --> 00:26:55.190
let my left hand know what my right hand's doing.
00:26:56.009 --> 00:27:02.289
So to them, when you are working, don't over...
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:05.339
express it, don't over talk about it. Because
00:27:05.339 --> 00:27:08.880
when you're not working, then you're like, I'm
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.319
just taking a natural break. You get what I'm
00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.500
saying? I'm navigating mentally where I'm going
00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:18.339
to start next. That looks different for everybody.
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.380
Sometimes some people actually need to not be
00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:24.279
doing anything to figure out when my next book
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:27.119
is going to come out. When's my next project?
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:29.640
So I don't think you should be. Don't feel too
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.920
much, too pressured when people are asking you,
00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:34.279
when's the next book? What's the next project?
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:38.039
Are you writing? You know what I'm saying? Try
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.180
not to feel too pressured about that because
00:27:40.180 --> 00:27:43.400
it's natural, but it's just best to remember
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.960
that as an artist, I got to do things my way
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:49.960
to give out my best work. Yeah. You know? Absolutely.
00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:51.980
And you know, people are like, you know, what
00:27:51.980 --> 00:27:55.700
is your process of writing? And I think generally
00:27:55.700 --> 00:27:59.000
my process of writing is a pretty unstructured
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.619
process in the sense that I write if there's
00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:06.200
inspiration, if I'm inspired by a situation,
00:28:06.259 --> 00:28:08.819
whether it's political or emotional or whatever,
00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:12.680
and I'll get the first couple of lines or the
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.119
first stanza in my mind, then I'll run with it.
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:19.039
And I often kind of feel like... the poem writes
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.019
me rather than I'm writing the poem because there
00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:25.700
you go just kind of get the first thread of the
00:28:25.700 --> 00:28:28.619
poem and you follow the thread wherever it takes
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:32.039
you that's just life and that's the thing everybody
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:35.000
process is different so if someone even asks
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.099
you like hey what's your process the best answer
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:40.059
you can let them know is hey my process might
00:28:40.059 --> 00:28:42.460
not work for you because it's my process it's
00:28:42.460 --> 00:28:46.869
for me so yeah sometimes I wake up And there's
00:28:46.869 --> 00:28:49.210
no words other days. I might wake up. There's
00:28:49.210 --> 00:28:54.890
nothing but words So that process is that looks
00:28:54.890 --> 00:28:57.289
different for any and everybody but you got to
00:28:57.289 --> 00:29:00.890
listen to yourself You got to find a different
00:29:00.890 --> 00:29:03.789
remedies in different ways to actually tune into
00:29:03.789 --> 00:29:08.210
yourself to let those words flow You know, everybody's
00:29:08.210 --> 00:29:13.240
remedy looks different I was wondering if lockdown
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:15.880
never happened, do you think this version of
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.819
you would exist? Gosh, that's an interesting
00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:26.819
question, isn't it? I don't think so. I mean,
00:29:26.819 --> 00:29:29.640
I had this conversation with my sister where
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.579
she said to me, she said to me, there's two versions
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:37.619
of you. She said to me, there's Neymar. before
00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:39.960
you were published and Neymar after you were
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.279
published and she said to me and the difference
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:45.960
is really really stark because you know like
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:47.940
before you were published you know you're always
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:50.279
undermining yourself you're always questioning
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:52.900
yourself you know and then she's mean and when
00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:55.119
you got published you know i i noticed there
00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:58.119
was a shift in me you just seem like more confident
00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:00.720
in yourself. There was more self -belief in yourself.
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:03.319
So I think, yeah, probably if lockdown hadn't
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.480
happened, possibly, yeah, there would be a different
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.900
version of me today. Yes. I like that. I like
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:14.319
that it really puts you through your trials and
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:19.619
tribulations. It had you really step back and
00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:23.640
thank yourself, recognize yourself, really notice
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.559
yourself, bring the confidence to the upfront.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.519
Bring the positive thoughts to the upfront, you
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:32.400
know, because, you know, I meant to really assess
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:34.339
us in a way where we have a positive thought
00:30:34.339 --> 00:30:37.039
and then we have a negative thought. So it really
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:39.519
it really depends on which thought we feed into
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:43.799
the most. And it sounds like before your process,
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:47.259
before your experience with the lockdown, you
00:30:47.259 --> 00:30:50.279
maybe was feeding the negative thought the most.
00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:53.319
And now you're in the area, you're in a phase
00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:55.799
where you can feed the positive thought the most.
00:30:56.170 --> 00:30:58.670
Yeah, I think you know it was a point where you
00:30:58.670 --> 00:31:02.410
kind of sit down and you say to yourself rather
00:31:02.410 --> 00:31:06.589
than Focus on the things that I haven't done.
00:31:06.930 --> 00:31:09.950
Yeah, look at what you have achieved Exactly.
00:31:10.029 --> 00:31:13.630
And there you go Right in front of you look at
00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:17.970
the things you have done and believe it or not
00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:21.349
Each thing you've probably done has not been
00:31:21.349 --> 00:31:24.640
done overnight. It was nothing you get done You
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:26.819
got right as soon as you got it done. You know,
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.240
it was probably a process. How did isolation
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:35.019
reshape your view of connection and relationships?
00:31:36.220 --> 00:31:39.039
Connected very closely with my with my children
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:44.319
during lockdown. But I think it certainly made
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:48.559
me value, you know, my my my close friendships
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:54.140
and the people that. that are in my circle more
00:31:54.140 --> 00:31:56.480
because, you know, we weren't able to see each
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:59.539
other during lockdown. I mean, we did have phone
00:31:59.539 --> 00:32:03.359
conversations, but it's not the same as spending
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.220
time with people that you care about and that
00:32:07.220 --> 00:32:09.099
you enjoy spending time with. So, yeah, I think
00:32:09.099 --> 00:32:12.579
it certainly made me appreciate them more and
00:32:12.579 --> 00:32:16.019
learn not to be so negligent in my day -to -day
00:32:16.019 --> 00:32:19.539
life in terms of keeping in touch with people.
00:32:20.279 --> 00:32:26.700
Okay. And could you say that you feel you understand
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:29.920
your experience differently now that you did
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:33.720
back then? Yeah, definitely. I think, you know,
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:40.079
for me, I can understand the COVID period, certainly
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.140
the first lockdown to me, it was a it was a period
00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:46.420
of healing. definitely a period of healing, but
00:32:46.420 --> 00:32:51.339
not also a period of growing as a human being.
00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:55.660
Definitely. And that's how I see it now. When
00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:57.900
I was in the thick of it, I didn't necessarily
00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:04.000
see it that way. It just felt like I had an explosion
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.039
of emotions and words in my head and I couldn't
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:11.240
possibly make sense of them. Okay, and how would
00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:16.769
you say that your perspective on that period
00:33:16.769 --> 00:33:23.410
evolve over the last few years? I think it's
00:33:23.410 --> 00:33:26.349
evolved in the sense that either I've been able
00:33:26.349 --> 00:33:30.670
to kind of, let's say, adapt, for want of a better
00:33:30.670 --> 00:33:35.210
word, to the process of the menopause. Okay.
00:33:36.009 --> 00:33:39.829
Was that the biggest... Whereas, you know, I
00:33:39.829 --> 00:33:43.519
was able to... my doctor, I was able to sort
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.460
of get sort of patches to help with things like,
00:33:47.460 --> 00:33:49.599
you know, the brain fog and the forgetfulness
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.079
and things like that. And that certainly helped
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:57.980
in that sense. And because it kind of eased some
00:33:57.980 --> 00:34:02.119
of the symptoms, it, you know, it left the mind
00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:04.880
clearer to be able to see the whole picture,
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.460
you know, sort of going into menopause is not
00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:14.079
the end. uh begin the beginning of another chapter
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:20.059
okay when you say seeing things more clear clearly
00:34:20.059 --> 00:34:24.820
what what is it specifically that time and distance
00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:28.480
allows you to see more clearly what was it i
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:30.159
think because i don't get that i don't get so
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:31.760
much of that brain fog anymore because i mean
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:33.880
that that brain fog is absolutely horrendous
00:34:33.880 --> 00:34:36.260
during menopause where you're kind of like you're
00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:38.619
talking to someone or you're having a conversation
00:34:39.099 --> 00:34:42.099
and your mind just goes blank and you completely
00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:46.059
lose trap of what you were saying and you're
00:34:46.059 --> 00:34:47.980
thinking what was I saying again? What was I
00:34:47.980 --> 00:34:52.219
saying again? And I think you know there were
00:34:52.219 --> 00:34:54.800
times where I because my father had also been
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:59.519
diagnosed with dementia. There were moments where
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:01.280
I was kind of freaking out and thinking, oh my
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.119
God, am I getting dementia? Is this early onslaught
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.059
dementia? Am I seeing the early signs of dementia?
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.480
And so I think being diagnosed as menopause was
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.679
certainly a relief in the sense that I'd rather
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:21.019
have menopause than the early onset of dementia.
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:26.239
So would you doubt that? Okay. So did it start
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:30.079
to make you like overthink a lot? I think it
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.300
made me very emotional. Yes, definitely. Okay.
00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:36.360
So it was more like an emotional roller coaster.
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.280
I mean like teary and then there were times where
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:41.340
I feel, you know, full of energy and it just
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:45.079
seemed to go from one extreme to the other. You
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:47.920
know, and there were also, you know, days where
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:51.000
I just felt like I had absolutely no direction
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.539
whatsoever and I would just be in my road at
00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:56.619
home all day. I wouldn't leave the house. I wouldn't
00:35:56.619 --> 00:35:59.199
do anything. Yeah. I mean, I know it's going
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.800
to be hard to answer this question, but would
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:04.599
do you think it would have been a better experience
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.420
for you? Or I wouldn't even say better because
00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:09.880
it's still an experience. But do you think you
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:12.599
would have preferred an experience going through
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:16.300
your menopause not during lockdown? Would you
00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:20.159
preferred, hey, if we the doors were open? I
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:24.300
had community. I had people to turn to. You know,
00:36:24.500 --> 00:36:27.519
do you prefer that versus going through it during
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:31.559
lockdown? Barely can touch people. You're very
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:35.099
anxious who you go around. Which one would you
00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:39.139
kind of prefer? I would prefer to have the experience
00:36:39.139 --> 00:36:41.400
outside of lockdown because then obviously I
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:44.300
would have been able to see a doctor sooner and
00:36:44.300 --> 00:36:47.900
he would have been able to sort of help me. sooner
00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:51.699
rather than when I went through months of where
00:36:51.699 --> 00:36:56.440
my mind was a mess. I was totally emotional.
00:36:56.659 --> 00:37:02.219
I had no idea what was happening to me. Did you
00:37:02.219 --> 00:37:06.619
have much community or did you have people virtually
00:37:06.619 --> 00:37:10.619
around that time? Not a lot, to be honest. I
00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:12.699
think it was really just with my two youngest
00:37:12.699 --> 00:37:15.599
children at home. I mean, you know, I would make
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:18.500
daily visits to my parents because I was their
00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:22.440
main carer, a close friend who I spoke to about
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:24.639
it. But I think outside of that, I didn't really
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.239
have, you know, that much support. You know,
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:31.119
I did remember one time when I'm just after menopause,
00:37:31.139 --> 00:37:34.960
just after, sorry, Covid had finished and lockdown
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:40.880
had been lifted. I met my elder son. And he asked
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:43.210
me, he said to me, Mum. He said to me, have you
00:37:43.210 --> 00:37:46.309
started menopause? And I looked at him and I
00:37:46.309 --> 00:37:49.389
kind of smiled. And I said to him, isn't that
00:37:49.389 --> 00:37:51.530
a funny question to come from a man? He says,
00:37:51.610 --> 00:37:54.670
no, no, because I saw a program about women going
00:37:54.670 --> 00:37:56.889
into menopause the other day and blah, blah,
00:37:56.889 --> 00:37:59.670
blah. And I was concerned about you. And I said
00:37:59.670 --> 00:38:02.630
to him, yes, I have started menopause and I'm
00:38:02.630 --> 00:38:06.800
trying to get to see the doctor. Yeah, and then
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:08.159
bless him. He was sitting there giving me all
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.239
this advice mom You need you should be eating
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:12.260
this and you should be doing this, you know I
00:38:12.260 --> 00:38:15.000
heard this is really good women going through
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.400
menopause and I thought it was such a lovely
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:21.000
lovely moment where you had a man who was showing
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.400
genuine concern about a woman who's going through
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:26.719
menopause because often you know In the world
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:29.559
of men, you know menopause is dismissed as women
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:32.619
being erratic and crazy or whatever. It's nice
00:38:32.619 --> 00:38:36.130
to have your your child be the one that's kind
00:38:36.130 --> 00:38:40.309
of being the comforting friend in that time.
00:38:41.389 --> 00:38:43.769
Just making sure you're okay, trying to help
00:38:43.769 --> 00:38:48.369
you stay on it. Not picking at you about it,
00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:52.210
but being really supportive during that time.
00:38:52.210 --> 00:38:54.250
You don't know, you see the doctor, are you getting
00:38:54.250 --> 00:38:59.389
any support? That's so sweet that you actually
00:38:59.389 --> 00:39:04.750
thought to ask me about that. Yeah, was that,
00:39:05.130 --> 00:39:07.769
did it really hit you on an emotional level to
00:39:07.769 --> 00:39:11.409
see that your kids are just with you on this
00:39:11.409 --> 00:39:13.489
rollercoaster? Yeah, absolutely. I just kind
00:39:13.489 --> 00:39:15.869
of scooped him up in a big hug, and I was like,
00:39:15.869 --> 00:39:17.849
oh, you're such a sweetheart. That's so kind
00:39:17.849 --> 00:39:21.829
of you to actually ask about that. Yeah. Well,
00:39:22.050 --> 00:39:23.909
look, that just lets you know mama's doing right,
00:39:24.070 --> 00:39:28.369
okay? Yeah. You know, men tend to sort of kind
00:39:28.369 --> 00:39:33.820
of... avoid women's issues. Yes, they're very
00:39:33.820 --> 00:39:38.780
unsure of what words to use in that predicament,
00:39:39.139 --> 00:39:41.820
what to say, how to say it. So it's good that
00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:44.400
they were just being brave enough to say, hey,
00:39:44.500 --> 00:39:46.480
I'm here. I don't know if I'm saying it right,
00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:49.400
but mom, you should try this, try that, do this,
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.539
you know. So it's nice to just see them try.
00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:55.800
Well, I mean, the second book was published,
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:59.650
Saging Not Aging. that the second book was published,
00:39:59.730 --> 00:40:02.349
I suppose that will stay with me. What do you
00:40:02.349 --> 00:40:05.849
really hope from readers to feel immediately
00:40:05.849 --> 00:40:12.250
after finishing this book? I hope that they feel
00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:19.070
that the pieces in the book have touched on issues
00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:23.550
that they can relate to and has helped them better
00:40:23.550 --> 00:40:30.019
understand them emotionally. Is it more of just
00:40:30.019 --> 00:40:34.019
trying to really express yourself, deep dive,
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:39.880
getting deep in, deep in diving into how to be
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:42.219
emotionally vulnerable to certain moments like
00:40:42.219 --> 00:40:45.380
this? Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I
00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:48.539
mean, there's certainly an element of soul searching
00:40:48.539 --> 00:40:53.000
in the book and kind of like it closes with...
00:40:53.420 --> 00:40:58.519
with the kind of feeling that we've kind of sifted
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.920
through all the pieces of ourselves and we've
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.079
reached the finish line as the complete article
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:09.000
and a better understanding of ourselves. And
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:12.559
you know, with COVID, it brought a lot of silence,
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:17.539
like a lot of silence. What would you say that
00:41:17.539 --> 00:41:23.719
the silence taught you in that moment? It's a
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:26.179
funny thing with silence. I think certainly with
00:41:26.179 --> 00:41:30.519
me, I'm not a huge fan of it because I think
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:35.199
I'm a very social person and I enjoy being around
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:41.460
other people and often in the silence, I found
00:41:41.460 --> 00:41:44.340
that my mind often tended to go to very dark
00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:48.900
places. So I would kind of try to avoid that.
00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:53.219
I mean, I suppose in the book, what I did was
00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:56.940
I did kind of sort of, rather than try to kind
00:41:56.940 --> 00:42:00.639
of avoid facing my thoughts and my feelings and
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:03.219
just shutting it off, I thought, no, actually
00:42:03.219 --> 00:42:06.659
just jump into those feelings and explore them.
00:42:06.860 --> 00:42:11.480
And I kind of just sort of did that with the
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:15.019
poetry and I was hoping that in doing that it
00:42:15.019 --> 00:42:17.880
would probably help other people who maybe felt
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:21.219
a similar way to make more sense of their own
00:42:21.219 --> 00:42:26.780
emotions. Outside of writing, do you try to navigate?
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:30.179
with silence now, now that you're outside of
00:42:30.179 --> 00:42:33.019
writing the lockdown book and you're outside
00:42:33.019 --> 00:42:36.400
of being forced to be in so much silence. Do
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.420
you practice navigating in silence now that you
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:42.760
have the option to shut it off and turn it back
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:45.019
on? Because versus in lockdown, we really didn't
00:42:45.019 --> 00:42:46.920
have that option. Everything was quiet. Everything
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.280
was shut down. Couldn't go anywhere. But now
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:51.699
really you have that option. You can stay home.
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:55.389
Because it's nice to have. that little shut down,
00:42:55.550 --> 00:42:58.510
sometimes where you just shut out the world and
00:42:58.510 --> 00:43:01.469
just sort of focus on yourself. You say it's
00:43:01.469 --> 00:43:03.750
uncomfortable, still uncomfortable to navigate
00:43:03.750 --> 00:43:06.210
or did you get past that and was able to get
00:43:06.210 --> 00:43:09.550
a level of comfortability? It's slightly uncomfortable
00:43:09.550 --> 00:43:13.449
because sometimes you're delving into things
00:43:13.449 --> 00:43:18.650
that are sort of painful or embarrassing even.
00:43:19.610 --> 00:43:22.849
I mean it's mighty uncomfortable but not so comfortable
00:43:22.849 --> 00:43:26.519
that It would prevent you from doing that. It's
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:28.880
kind of like, you know, it's worth the discomfort
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:33.059
if I'm going to be able to produce a piece that
00:43:33.059 --> 00:43:39.179
maybe speaks to some of my readers. Okay. Did
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:43.900
releasing this book release any internal stress
00:43:43.900 --> 00:43:51.059
that you had? I don't think it released any stress,
00:43:51.059 --> 00:43:53.429
I think. I think I was probably more stressed
00:43:53.429 --> 00:43:56.889
before it was published, but I think once it
00:43:56.889 --> 00:44:01.309
was published, I didn't necessarily feel stressed.
00:44:01.510 --> 00:44:03.730
I mean, I think probably the only stress I felt
00:44:03.730 --> 00:44:08.530
was, as we discussed earlier, is the pressure
00:44:08.530 --> 00:44:10.769
of what are you doing next? What have you got
00:44:10.769 --> 00:44:12.869
planned next? What are you doing next? And it's
00:44:12.869 --> 00:44:15.469
like you constantly feel that you need to be
00:44:15.469 --> 00:44:18.030
doing something, you need to be active within
00:44:18.030 --> 00:44:23.550
the writing community. Okay, I see that so it's
00:44:23.550 --> 00:44:26.369
like more the stress came afterwards it was not
00:44:26.369 --> 00:44:28.809
yeah during the process it was morally okay once
00:44:28.809 --> 00:44:34.550
this is done What am I gonna do next? Yeah Well
00:44:34.550 --> 00:44:38.269
my last question to you I Would like to know
00:44:38.269 --> 00:44:41.510
if someone is listening and feels alone right
00:44:41.510 --> 00:44:46.650
now. What would you say to them directly? I Would
00:44:46.650 --> 00:44:51.110
I would say to them Talk to people that you feel
00:44:51.110 --> 00:44:59.769
safe and comfortable with. Mental health or struggling
00:44:59.769 --> 00:45:03.130
with your emotions, it's not a weakness. I think
00:45:03.130 --> 00:45:07.750
it takes a lot of strength to confront those
00:45:07.750 --> 00:45:13.570
feelings and those emotions. I want to say that
00:45:13.570 --> 00:45:18.960
I do thank you for finding the time to put pen
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:22.719
to paper for writing COVID, the whirlwinds in
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:25.420
mind under lockdown, because I had to go back
00:45:25.420 --> 00:45:28.760
and do my research and ask myself, what made
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.920
an author write about a time like this? I was
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.980
honest, being honestly speaking, I'm being full
00:45:33.980 --> 00:45:38.559
transparent, I asked myself that. Then I concluded
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:42.239
that there was a lot of self -reflection, a lot
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.039
of people that went through COVID, because I
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:48.030
even went through COVID, but I didn't I didn't
00:45:48.030 --> 00:45:55.130
really have a much huge impact. The most that
00:45:55.130 --> 00:45:59.690
I was able to navigate was finding things and
00:45:59.690 --> 00:46:03.190
finding things that I love to do outside of corporate,
00:46:04.050 --> 00:46:06.570
any corporate situation. That was the most that
00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:12.829
I was navigating through. So I also further educated
00:46:12.829 --> 00:46:17.679
myself to realize that a lot of authors, artists,
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:22.739
that was a process in time for them. It didn't
00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:25.179
happen until you got out of the time, you were
00:46:25.179 --> 00:46:27.840
able to actually process what just happened,
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:32.260
being still like that. I was very curious, what
00:46:32.260 --> 00:46:35.659
makes Neema want to keep talking about this book?
00:46:35.860 --> 00:46:39.599
Why COVID? Why after so many years? It's because
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:42.099
you're still processing what happened. You're
00:46:42.099 --> 00:46:45.789
still processing. The growth that you have experienced
00:46:45.789 --> 00:46:50.409
the transformation of what happened the the world
00:46:50.409 --> 00:46:55.090
Really was in a huge moment. Like that was something
00:46:55.090 --> 00:46:58.010
we've never been through, you know, so to go
00:46:58.010 --> 00:47:03.409
through that to Experience that halt on the world.
00:47:03.409 --> 00:47:06.150
A lot of artists are still trying to figure out.
00:47:06.150 --> 00:47:09.750
How do I communicate? You know these these feelings.
00:47:10.050 --> 00:47:13.449
How do I put that pen to paper? in that moment,
00:47:13.869 --> 00:47:16.730
you know what I'm saying? So in navigating, how
00:47:16.730 --> 00:47:20.130
do I talk about menopause while I'm going through
00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:25.309
menopause on a lockdown? Even after this, how
00:47:25.309 --> 00:47:27.929
do I have the confidence to still want to push
00:47:27.929 --> 00:47:30.949
the book out? You get what I'm saying? So it
00:47:30.949 --> 00:47:34.329
was like a full roller coaster. And that's why
00:47:34.329 --> 00:47:37.170
I was very excited to sit down with you and get
00:47:37.170 --> 00:47:41.329
more information, more heart about the book.
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:46.659
Thank you. Yeah, it was a tremendous book. It
00:47:46.659 --> 00:47:49.980
was a pleasure sitting with you as well. Likewise.
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:52.739
It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. Of
00:47:52.739 --> 00:47:56.420
course. Thank you so much for joining us for
00:47:56.420 --> 00:47:59.460
this powerful conversation. If this discussion
00:47:59.460 --> 00:48:02.960
resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe,
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:05.900
and share your thoughts in the comments. Don't
00:48:05.900 --> 00:48:10.030
forget to check out COVID. the whirlwinds of
00:48:10.030 --> 00:48:13.469
a mind under lockdown, and continue supporting
00:48:13.469 --> 00:48:17.030
meaningful stories like this. Until next time,
00:48:17.349 --> 00:48:19.469
stay curious and stay inspired.