speaker-0: This is Shelf Space. My guest today is Sonia Strobel, co-founder and CEO of Skipper Auto Community Supported Fishery. Sonia is doing incredible work in Canada's seafood industry, leading initiatives that build up local ownership, increase transparency, sustainable supply chains, and real food sovereignty at the community level. This is one of the most important conversations I've had this year, and I'm so glad I was able to hit record. Before we dive in, a galactic shout out to the partners who make shelf space possible TD Business Banking, Pacific Coast Distribution, Faskin, REMA, Picnic Creative, and Benchmark Sixty. Okay, here's my conversation with Sonya. Okay, Sonia, we know each other. We've been connected in the food space for a long time. I follow a lot of your work, especially your advocacy work in the fishing community and on our ocean health and so many areas that I feel like I'm smarter every time I pay attention to what you have to say. So I'm glad we're having this conversation. And I want to kick it off with if you were to imagine one innovation in the grocery store in the future, what would you love to see?
speaker-1: Well, that is a great question. I think you're right, we've known each other for a while, and I think you know I work in this interesting space in food because we do direct-to-consumer seafood. And so that's direct from fishing families. And that's because I think seafood is so tricky to do in the grocery space. So I would just love to see if I could snap my fingers, there would be a magic wave for fishing families like mine, like the 45 fishing families we work with across Canada. for them to work directly with grocery retail and make sure that Canadians can be eating local Canadian seafood. And that's unfortunately really tricky thing to achieve right.
speaker-0: I think you're right. And a lot of us are buying seafood that we have no idea where it's from, where it was caught, how it was caught, what has been the journey of that food product over the last few days, weeks, months, or years. So yeah, there's a lot of mystery in the food space and in the seafood space. So I'm glad you're doing what you're doing. And I hope that you continue to find the megaphone that you need. So I guess I'll play my small part in all of that for here. But I have a feeling you might be one of the best kept secrets. And I'm gonna break one of my rules in shelf space. I'm gonna let you kind of take us back a little bit, not too far, but to be able to let listeners know a little bit about what it is that you do and the company that you are at the helm of.
speaker-1: Yeah, well, so Skipper Auto, we've been around for about 18 years. We started the company really to solve this problem we've already started talking about, which is that in Canada we export about 90% of the seafood that we catch, and about 80% of the seafood we eat in Canada is imported from somewhere else. And meanwhile, small-scale independent fishing families in coastal and indigenous communities have a really hard time continuing in that way of life and making living wages. And so about 20 years ago, I saw that gap. when I married into a fishing family and thought there's got just gotta be a better way. So ⁓ that's all we did. We created a community supported fishery so that consumers could buy seafood in a really lean and efficient way directly from fishing families. And so we have, as I said, about 45 fishing families in BC, Nunavut and Saskatchewan. And these families pre-sell their catch to about 8,000 customers. These are like home cooks all across Canada. who invest at the start of the season and say, yeah, I wanna eat what you're catching. I wanna eat what is abundant and sustainable from your ecosystem this year. So that's a business as it is now and and it's let us say eighteen years and and and we're doing well. I think we are designed to solve a problem and and we're doing it really well.
speaker-0: Think you are doing it really well and you undersold yourself a little bit because it wasn't that just two, three weeks ago, I was backstage at an event and I came across a federal politician and we got talking about the food space and your name came up and he's like, he wanted an introduction, but he had a feeling he might have already been introduced to you. Nonetheless, share with listeners a little bit about some of the advocacy work that you're doing at the highest levels to change. The way in which fishing families and and fishing communities operate in Canada.
speaker-1: Yeah, we have a really great model for I think how we should be thinking about the fish in our waters and who gets to benefit from them. We have a great model in Atlantic Canada and actually in pretty much every other jurisdiction in North America. And those are that's a model that protects who owns the fish in the ocean, who can benefit from that resource. So in Atlantic Canada, if you're gonna fish, if you're gonna catch fish, you have to own the license. You can't own a license and lease it out to somebody else. They call it owner operator. We don't have that same policy objective here in British Columbia. So in British Columbia, you can own a fishing license as an investment tool and you can lease it out. They can be owned by corporations, they can be owned by non-Canadian entities. In fact, we don't even know who owns most of our fishing licenses and quotas in British Columbia. And so as a result, what we're finding is that it's very difficult for young people to get into the industry because the cost of licenses, the cost of access is so very high. It's very difficult for people to make a living because sometimes up to 80% of the landed value of that catch goes to the licensed owner. And so that means the person catching the fish has to pay their deck hands and their fuel and all of their costs and hopefully pay themselves with 30% or less of the landed value of that catch. So it's really it's really hollowing out our fishing communities. And so we're really I'm really been advocating that we're just asking for the same policy objective that applies to Atlantic Canada. to apply to the Pacific region and that says that the value of the fisheries should be here to benefit people in coastal and indigenous communities and the shoreside businesses that surround them.
speaker-0: Sounds wildly corrupt. I had visions of soprano level gangster activity there holding these licenses and siphoning money off the backs of people doing the work. So that sounds really that's important work. Appreciate you doing that.
speaker-1: Think often when we think about food systems, we're not thinking about those policies that underlie the food systems. And so when we want to have good, robust local food systems that are resilient to global shocks and to things like that, policy like that really informs it. And so I see our business, my job as a business leader in the food space, is also to think about those policies and how they inform our access to food. And so that's why we we engage in that space and we work hard at that.
speaker-0: And from a consumer's perspective at the grocery store, a lot of us are looking for symbols, signals, talking points, you know, call outs to make us feel like, hey, we're making a good purchase here. We're going to consume something that's responsibly or sustainably caught. However, are these certifications doing the job that they're meant to do? Are consumers getting the information that they need? They don't need a lot. They don't want a lot, but is it enough? I feel maybe that it's not. I just There doesn't seem to be the transparency that there should be in the seafood industry.
speaker-1: Yeah, I agree. And I think that's that seafood is especially opaque. It's especially difficult to know where seafood was caught and how and by whom and to to have that information. It's very difficult. I think you're right. There are a lot of organizations that have certification programs or labeling programs that attempt to give the consumer a little bit more information. But even those programs they struggle, and that's because the seafoods, the global seafood supply chain is so especially lengthy and especially difficult to trace through. So they might be able to trace that a species comes from a particular place, but they may not be able to trace who caught it or how they caught it or the gear method. We have particularly weak seafood labeling laws in Canada, and your listeners might be aware of that, that in the EU and in the US and in Japan, you have to put on the label where it was caught, the gear method, the scientific name of the species, all these things have to go on the label. In Canada we don't. We can put the country of most recent major transformation. And so if it was filleted here, it'll just say that it was a product of Canada. And and that's a real problem. So I think consumers struggle with that. When they go to buy seafood, they often hear that there are these problems in the global seafood system. There's slavery and there's environmental degradation, there's overfishing and there are all these problems. And they into the grocery store and they look and they see a little green sticker and they think, ⁓ I don't know, is that enough? And then they shy away from buying seafood. And I think that's really unfortunate. And it's one of the things that we tackle at Skipper Auto because every piece of fish comes with the label with the person's face, who caught it, where, when, how, a little bit about their bio, when it was caught, you know, all that information's on there. And I think we're trying to prove that that can be done. But it has to be we have to be innovative, we have to be creative. if we want to achieve that kind of transparency. And I think at Skipperado we see such high member loyalty, such high ⁓ engagement over such a long period. And it shows that, you know, you have to work hard to build trust. And, you know, in the seafood space especially, that's that's really tricky and it takes a lot of effort.
speaker-0: Trust at the grocery store level in some industries, like in dairy or in meat, there's supply chain to solve the problems and to to come in. Do you see supply chain management or version of it as a good thing in seafood? Or do you feel like that's just yet another, you know, Darth Vader in the mix of this whole thing?
speaker-1: Yeah, it goes back to the sort of policy question, doesn't it? Really? And I think we really need to take a hard look at seafood and seafood supply because we don't have that kind of supply management like we may have in dairy and in other things. We don't have these kinds of protections for harvesters. We don't have traceability. We don't have that kind of management. We really need something like that. We know why we need it in other industries, but we know why we need protections in Atlantic Canada for harvesters. And so I think it's very obvious, you know, what happens when we don't have management, we don't have any sort of controls, we don't know who owns the fish in the water. We know what kinds of problems come. You know, we look at real estate here in Vancouver, and if we don't have things like empty homes taxes or efforts to try to at least manage investment and at how these things, like housing or food, can be used as investment tools. When we don't manage that, we know that it creates problems. So yeah, I don't know what it will look like is a great question exactly how we will manage a supply in British Columbia, but I know we need to change
speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. Now, when it comes to diversity, you know, in the grocery store, every category has many, many players. And for every category that you're looking at, you're seeing five or 10, but this actually probably represents a hundred that want to be in that spot. In in the fresh seafood counter, and in fact, the purchase data kind of proves it that salmon, tuna, and shrimp are just like they are the superstars, but the ocean has so much more to offer. What do you guys see from a consumer demand perspective that is showing are there trends towards being more to explore more seafood? And is that trend resulting in faster sales projections in those areas?
speaker-1: It's certainly one of our key messages to our members is this concept of eating with the ecosystem. And so rather than saying, I would like a fresh piece of salmon on my plate on February seventeenth, we encourage our members to think about this is one of the, or if not the last great wild protein on the planet. We cannot dictate exactly what comes out when, where, and how. And with our oceans changing rapidly, we need to be able to be flexible and eat with the ecosystem. What is abundant, what is sustainable? So that's something that we see our members not only receptive to, but really excited about it. They're always asking, like, what is being caught and what is out there that we're not seeing that's not just the shrimp, tuna, salmon, you know, standards that are always out there. So our members are really receptive to that, always looking for a new product. So I think part of it is storytelling. It's helping people understand why a particular seafood item is a good choice and why it's a you know best for people and for planet. sharing recipes and those kinds of things so that if people see a new product they're unfamiliar with, just helping them to see how they can utilize that. But we just see a huge interest in that. And I think that that's a trend, not just at skipper auto, but there's just, you know, there's that category of foodies who are curious. They want to know the story of their food and they want to explore more diversity of products. And so we're always bringing aboard new products that are storied and traceable and sustainable.
speaker-0: I think some of your bundle offerings too kind of help bring that to life where someone can get something that they know and love, but then have the opportunity to try something new and different or something that they haven't either made it home very much. And it can be a really fun way to bring that culinary level up at home.
speaker-1: Absolutely. When we started Skipper Auto, you know, I was inspired by community supported agriculture, which was a way to connect directly with farmers. But what I didn't want to make was a mystery box. I didn't want people to get a weekly mystery box of whatever fish. Because I know that can be really intimidating for people. So that was really intentional that we designed Skipper Auto so that people bring some money to the equation. They say, Listen, I'm gonna eat $500 worth of fish this year. Here's my five hundred dollars. But I'm gonna get to pick and choose what I want and when I want. So they can go to that online store and as you said, we can encourage people, say, Yep, we have all the favorites. Here they are. But hey, have you ever had turbot or getting wild turbot coming in? That's an Arctic fish. I'm so excited to be able to share that with our members. And so they can, if they're feeling adventurous, they can order a piece of turbot. And if they're not, they can stick to their what they're comfortable with. And I think that choice is really important.
speaker-0: And you use grocery partners for some of the delivery, ⁓ so that someone can order through the co op, but then their local grocery store can be where they go pick up their seafood order, right?
speaker-1: I think this is a really key and awesome piece of our innovation that we've had for a very long time. And that's what we call community partners. So we partner with grocery stores and other retailers, a lot of breweries, lots of lots of stores that are looking to get foot traffic in their stores because I think we all know that seafood, fresh seafood, is tricky to do in the grocery space. And not all stores have the capacity to do that. But we do know that seafood shoppers tend to be foodies. They tend to be curious. They tend when people sp are purchasing seafood, they're on average have a higher ⁓ cart size than than non-seafood shoppers. And so what we can do at Skipper Auto is we can handle the seafood sales. So our members are ordering their seafood from us, we're packing those orders, we're delivering them. We have about a about a hundred community partners across Canada. So these stores receive those pre-packed member orders, they go in their freezer, and then our members are directed to the store to pick them up. And it's a fantastic partnership. Those shoppers are going into the store, they're buying other other things when their store. We've tracked this, we've got it well documented that they shop in that store. When they're there, it builds loyalty. They're going back every week or every month to pick up their seafood and to shop. We've even had grocery partners say that they're selling more from their seafood counter to their skipper auto members. So their their seafood sales are going up. And I was curious at first, but of course, because we don't carry everything. We carry the seafood that comes from our fishing families. But the people that we're driving there are seafood shoppers. So if they walk by that grocery seafood counter and they see something fresh that we don't carry, there they are seafood shoppers and they're stopping. So I think it's a great partnership. It's been really successful. ⁓ and I love that innovation that it also reduces the carbon that we're spending. We're not shipping everything door to door. We do have home delivery as well. But people love being able to go and pick up their seafood at a store, have a face-to-face interaction, get to know their local store. and grab their seafood in this really personal way.
speaker-0: And for those that aren't sitting at home waiting for their seafood delivery to show up on a hot summer day, it's nice to know that someone in the cold chain is being responsible for their for their seafood. I the last time I picked up my order, it was from the choices here in SoSuri. And you know, I wasn't quite sure. I hadn't picked it up there before. So I went to the customer service and ⁓ they're like, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ let me get back to you on that. And someone rushed away and then. They're like, okay, go to the back door. And I went to the wrong door and I'm waiting around. I finally found the right door. And some guy came out and he's like, ⁓ yeah, Skiparado. It felt very incognito. And he brought me this brown bag. I felt like it was a, you know, it was like a drug dealer, whatever. But the guy had a, they all, every person I interacted with about it, they had a big smile on their face. They were so proud to collaborate with you guys. And they were glad to have me there. And of course, yes, I did fill my basket while waiting or wandering around. And I think this is a really, really great. program. Let's talk about frozen for a second. And I feel like I'm seeing more and more commentary around frozen at sea and that like at the boat, you know, like there's either flash freezing. Talk to me about the process of keeping things as fresh as possible. Cause I think seafood is one of those categories where people might not fully understand how something from the ocean can stay fresh and that can be served with confidence. Talk to me about that piece of the puzzle.
speaker-1: I often say that frozen is fresher than fresh. And it takes people a minute to think, what is she talking about? But when you think about, you know, supply chains, if we're catching fish and it's on ice and it's coming from very far away and it's got to go through auctions and wholesalers and things like that, even though it may be in a never-before frozen state when it gets to you, that doesn't necessarily mean it's high quality, right? And so I think you're absolutely right. People are catching on to the fact that flash frozen, high quality frozen fish. frozen at sea or blast frozen immediately on shore is often higher quality than the so-called fresh fish that you can find in in a seafood case. And that's just because freshness is a measure of how long it's been out of the sea at ambient temperature or, you know, four degrees Celsius at fridge temperature. And it will age. You often hear people say that they don't like fish because it smells fishy. And I always say that fishy smelling fish isn't fresh. You smell like the fresh ocean. It shouldn't smell like That sort of icky, fishy smell, right? And so when you catch fish and you flash freeze it, I also say this too sometimes is that wow, freezing technology has sure changed. We can get something from four degrees Celsius to minus 40 in minutes now. And that quick freezing is preserves the cellular structure. And so you don't end up with mushy fish. Whereas if you took a piece of fish and you threw it in your fridge freezer and it froze very slowly. The cell walls would gradually break as that water expands in there. So freezing very quickly and professionally preserves the catch-day freshness. And that means when you take it out of the freezer at home and thaw it, it's as fresh as the day it was caught. And you're not always getting that when you go and buy so-called fresh fish. So I think people are catching on to that. We've done blind side-by-side taste tests. People prefer the frozen fish most of the time because most of the time it's actually fresher. So when they catch on to that, they also realize how convenient it is to have these frozen pieces in your freezer at home. You can thaw that in 20 minutes in a sink of cold water. It takes 10 minutes to cook a beautiful piece of fish and you've got an incredible dinner. As opposed to buying a fresh piece, putting it in the fridge and then, ⁓ you know, baseball game came up and I couldn't cook it last night. ⁓ it's been in the fridge for three days. ⁓ I don't know if it smells fresh fresh anymore. That's very stressful. So I think, yeah, people are catching on to the fact that frozen is an amazing way to go with seafood.
speaker-0: Yeah, so true. I you I'm sorry to tell you, but about eight years ago, I bought some salmon from Costco. And ⁓ I don't remember how quickly I cooked it. Maybe it was the next day. But let's just say that my wife, I I think the sh she still smells the ghost of that fish in this house. It was the most putrid thing. You it was one of those bad fish stories that just it it was, it was, it had spoiled. It was really, really bad. But it put our family off of fish for a while. And that's when my wife instituted the I'm only allowed to cook fish outside on the barbecue rule. So we eat a lot more fish in the summertime realistically than we do in the winter because of the barbecuing season and such. Personal. I know it is sad. ⁓ and I'll I'm trying to train her ⁓ you know, to enjoy seafood in other times of the year, but it's a little bit trickier. But that that's my problem, not yours. One of the I guess it's it's a real mixed bag. And and I know you can speak to this, sort of the challenges and opportunity around. Food sovereignty. And you alluded to the fact that processing of seafood is not happening in Canada, especially in BC the way it should. To me, it feels like there's a like the math you explained around like export versus import. Isn't there just a really clear, easy business case for more seafood processing happening locally? Like it just boggles my mind. What am I missing? Is it just a lack of interest, a lack of investment? Are people distracted by Something else?
speaker-1: I think it goes back to sort of ownership and consolidation and things like that. So if you own licenses for fishing, that means you own the fish in the water and you can lease out the license to fish. But you're maybe a foreign company and maybe you own processing in another country where processing is processing is cheaper. You can make money all along that supply chain, then yeah, that's that's how you're going to end up with these systems where the fish in the water is already owned by someone else because that person also owns. you know, processing and markets in another country and things like that. So that's why I think getting ownership of the fish in Canadian waters, which is, you know, under the Fisheries Act, it is the it is the the property of all Canadians. It's to benefit Canadians. And so getting that brought back to local ownership will also you'll see what will happen is that we will have more processing capacity. I do a lot of mentorship for other seafood businesses around the world, a lot in the US. Every fishing community that I go to in the US has owner-operator protections, whether that's Alaska or California or the East Coast. And in every community I go to, you'll see thriving shoreside businesses, many different processing plants, ice houses, different companies who are buying seafood, and those companies are thriving there. So it just shows you don't need to own the fish in the water to have a thriving shoreside business. And in fact, when community-based harvesters own their own access, They can choose to have that fish processed locally, to sell into local markets. And I think it will really change grocery access to local seafood if people who are fishing, catching that fish, have agency to choose where to have it processed and where to sell it. We'll see a change in our seafood supply chain here, all through the system, if we can bring that ownership back. So I do think that's a big piece of why we don't see the processing here. It's all it's you know, it's largely going offshore and it's leaving our waters before we have a chance to have any say over who gets to eat it.
speaker-0: Yeah, I was gonna ask you about like Washington State and Alaska and kind of where they're at with it. It sounds like they're a little further ahead than we are here in BC, which is that's unfortunate. Let's talk about land-based aquaculture. Is that ⁓ growing fish and seafood stuff on land, you know, that's the layman's terms, as a good thing? Do you see it as creating challenges? I mean, from a global protein perspective, it's it's championed, but I know it's a bit complicated. So from your perspective, you know, how do you see that type of fish and seafood farming?
speaker-1: Yeah, I know it sounds logical on the surface that we could farm fish on land, we farm so many other things on land, but there's a few things that I think people are often not thinking about. One of those is that the seafood that we like to eat typically are carnivorous. And we don't typically farm other carnivores, right? We don't farm lions because we would have to raise goats to feed them. And so feeding carnivores to make food is a really inefficient way to feed ourselves to make produ to produce protein. So if we're farming, whether they're salmon or they're other carnivorous fish on land, yes, taking them on land takes them out of the ocean. So it removes some of those big problems with open net pen fish farming, pollution, disease, going straight into our oceans. Yes, it solves some of those. But you still have to feed those fish. And so that's the question, what do you feed them? And if you don't feed them their natural diet, they don't tend to taste like themselves. And so this is, I think, one of the problems I hear from chefs and I hear from folks in the industry that they're excited to see some innovation in on land salmon farming, but the feed can be very expensive and the fish can end up not having the same taste, not having the same flavors. It's very expensive, and it should be, because we shouldn't be dumping the waste and the pollution and the all of the after effects of open net pen fish farming into our commons, into the to the oceans. So it's natural, it's going to be more expensive to farm it on land as well. And so I do, I ask the question if we are just coming up with ever more complicated solutions to what's actually quite a simple problem, which is that wild seafood, caught and eaten locally, is actually one of the lowest carbon proteins on the planet. The ocean does produce seafood in abundance if we are not trying to commodify and ship it around the world, if we are thinking about it as our local resource. And so it's around management, it's around who we're feeding with that seafood and what is the purpose of it. I really truly believe, and there's a lot of research on this as well, that seafood, wild local cut seafood is a really important part of responsible local diets. And when we try to come up with those online fish farm solutions, I think we're coming up with an excessively complicated solution to a problem that's actually quite simple.
speaker-0: And active processing, then it's things like tinned fish, very trendy, by the way, over the last 18 months or so. It's ⁓ always a fun. There's so much, I don't know about innovation per se. Maybe there's a little bit, but a lot of great branding and and whatever. I grew up with a dad that always had ⁓ has he sardines ⁓ at lunch. It was I was his go-to. I was the kid that would go home for lunch at s you know during school and had like sardines and bean and bacon soup. So Anyway, when it comes to processing like tin fish, canned fish and are those types of things happening local or is that the same thing? Like a a lot of that stuff's happening outside of the country.
speaker-1: Yeah, that is all that is a big problem. We used to have ⁓ hundreds of canneries in British Columbia and there's really one left in that St. Jean's cannery on Vancouver Island. ⁓ there and that's crazy to think about. All of the local processing has simply disappeared. So most of the seafood that you can buy on the grocery shelf that's canned is coming from being canned somewhere else. And and you might be seeing that it's ⁓ you know, made in China, but it may have actually been caught here and the fish may have been shipped there for canning. Yeah, that's I think that's a real problem because you're right. Canning is a wonderful way to preserve. And if you are canning high quality fish, you know, that's an incredible product. A lot of the canned fish that we do get has had the oils pressed out of it before it's been canned, and then it's canned in vegetable oil or olive oil or something like that. So you're missing all of those rich omega-3s and all of the oils that you're hoping to get out of fish that's been pressed out and sold off. It's such a shame. But when canning is done well. And it's done with good quality fish. That's just an incredible, delicious product. We have a whole variety of smoked canned fish. We have all kinds of different canned fish. And having that, I have that on my desk here at work. So if I forgot my lunch, I can grab some some salad and open a tin and put some fish on that. That's a great thing to have. But yeah, we've lost that capacity too. And we really need to see that come back.
speaker-0: And you and your team have been working with indigenous communities for a long time. Tell me a little bit more about those relationships and the impact that those small businesses have on their communities.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I mean our our First Nations fishing families are really traditional keepers of knowledge that goes back since time immemorial. How do we exist as a part of that food system and part of that ecosystem and part of a community in relation with our seafood? And so they're incredible teachers to all of us. And I have just loved learning from s ⁓ so many different fisheries and so many indigenous communities about traditional ways that fish was harvested. Practices around ensuring that the sea the salmon especially are coming back year after year after year. I think one of the great examples is over in Port Albernie, the Sashot First Nation we work closely with. They manage the fishery there. They are on the round table with the non-Indigenous fish harvesters from all the different sectors and with the First Nations. And they work together in a round table there to really share knowledge and to ensure that those fish come back year after year. They're often Setting their own total allowable catch lower than what the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is setting because they know they want to ensure those fish are coming back year after year. And I think it's fantastic. I think the storytelling that First Nations want to share about fishing in their communities, what it means to them, what the seafood means to them is so important. And that's one of the things that we do at Skate Rado is make sure that our customers get to know the people who are catching their fish and what it means to them. I think that's really rich. And in a world of AI, I mean, boy, people are really looking for true personal relationships and connections and storytelling. And that's something that we can do as a community supported fishery, build those relationships.
speaker-0: I love it. Very cool. I want to just say that I think the work that you guys do is very difficult. At least it looks hard from the outside looking in, but you guys do it so you make it look effortless. And it's a very noble cause and appreciate what you're doing and how you're doing it. So thank you. My final question for you. It's an easy one. Best shopping, grocery shopping experience anywhere in the world. Where was it?
speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh, what a question. ⁓ that's not fair because I really should pick a BC story. But I the first thing that jumped to my mind was ⁓ you know, I was in Germany last summer and I went into a a market and didn't even know this market would be open, but evidently everyone else in Frankfurt knew this was there. And just the throng of people who are buying just incredibly fresh products out of these little stalls, just like farmers' markets, but you they've got these warehouse type food halls and I didn't know what I was looking for. And I just picked a bunch of cheese and meats and things and olives and sat on the riverside and just, you know, blew my mind the freshness and the quality. So like I love that personal connection, going somewhere, talking to somebody who's actually so proud of the food that they produced. And then when they serve it to you, like it was just such a touching and sweet moment. This woman put together this dish for me. So like I th I think that's probably one of my favorite recent grocery shopping.
speaker-0: Food connects us, doesn't it?
speaker-1: Sure does, it sure does.
speaker-0: Sonny, thank you for the time and excited for everything that's coming up for Skipper Auto and your team.
speaker-1: Thanks so much, Corbin. It's great to see you and great to chat with you.
speaker-0: Thanks for listening to this episode of Shelf Space. If you like what you hear, I would be eternally grateful for a five-star rating and a quick share on social. Your support means the world to me and our partners: TD, Faskin, Rema, Pacific Coast Distribution, Picnic Creative, and Benchmark 60. For bonus content and resources from our sponsors, go to ShelfSpacePodcast.com. I'm Corbin Hebert. I'm glad we're on this rocket ship together. I'll see you in the future.
speaker-1: Well, that is a great question. I think you're right, we've known each other for a while, and I think you know I work in this interesting space in food because we do direct-to-consumer seafood. And so that's direct from fishing families. And that's because I think seafood is so tricky to do in the grocery space. So I would just love to see if I could snap my fingers, there would be a magic wave for fishing families like mine, like the 45 fishing families we work with across Canada. for them to work directly with grocery retail and make sure that Canadians can be eating local Canadian seafood. And that's unfortunately really tricky thing to achieve right.
speaker-0: I think you're right. And a lot of us are buying seafood that we have no idea where it's from, where it was caught, how it was caught, what has been the journey of that food product over the last few days, weeks, months, or years. So yeah, there's a lot of mystery in the food space and in the seafood space. So I'm glad you're doing what you're doing. And I hope that you continue to find the megaphone that you need. So I guess I'll play my small part in all of that for here. But I have a feeling you might be one of the best kept secrets. And I'm gonna break one of my rules in shelf space. I'm gonna let you kind of take us back a little bit, not too far, but to be able to let listeners know a little bit about what it is that you do and the company that you are at the helm of.
speaker-1: Yeah, well, so Skipper Auto, we've been around for about 18 years. We started the company really to solve this problem we've already started talking about, which is that in Canada we export about 90% of the seafood that we catch, and about 80% of the seafood we eat in Canada is imported from somewhere else. And meanwhile, small-scale independent fishing families in coastal and indigenous communities have a really hard time continuing in that way of life and making living wages. And so about 20 years ago, I saw that gap. when I married into a fishing family and thought there's got just gotta be a better way. So ⁓ that's all we did. We created a community supported fishery so that consumers could buy seafood in a really lean and efficient way directly from fishing families. And so we have, as I said, about 45 fishing families in BC, Nunavut and Saskatchewan. And these families pre-sell their catch to about 8,000 customers. These are like home cooks all across Canada. who invest at the start of the season and say, yeah, I wanna eat what you're catching. I wanna eat what is abundant and sustainable from your ecosystem this year. So that's a business as it is now and and it's let us say eighteen years and and and we're doing well. I think we are designed to solve a problem and and we're doing it really well.
speaker-0: Think you are doing it really well and you undersold yourself a little bit because it wasn't that just two, three weeks ago, I was backstage at an event and I came across a federal politician and we got talking about the food space and your name came up and he's like, he wanted an introduction, but he had a feeling he might have already been introduced to you. Nonetheless, share with listeners a little bit about some of the advocacy work that you're doing at the highest levels to change. The way in which fishing families and and fishing communities operate in Canada.
speaker-1: Yeah, we have a really great model for I think how we should be thinking about the fish in our waters and who gets to benefit from them. We have a great model in Atlantic Canada and actually in pretty much every other jurisdiction in North America. And those are that's a model that protects who owns the fish in the ocean, who can benefit from that resource. So in Atlantic Canada, if you're gonna fish, if you're gonna catch fish, you have to own the license. You can't own a license and lease it out to somebody else. They call it owner operator. We don't have that same policy objective here in British Columbia. So in British Columbia, you can own a fishing license as an investment tool and you can lease it out. They can be owned by corporations, they can be owned by non-Canadian entities. In fact, we don't even know who owns most of our fishing licenses and quotas in British Columbia. And so as a result, what we're finding is that it's very difficult for young people to get into the industry because the cost of licenses, the cost of access is so very high. It's very difficult for people to make a living because sometimes up to 80% of the landed value of that catch goes to the licensed owner. And so that means the person catching the fish has to pay their deck hands and their fuel and all of their costs and hopefully pay themselves with 30% or less of the landed value of that catch. So it's really it's really hollowing out our fishing communities. And so we're really I'm really been advocating that we're just asking for the same policy objective that applies to Atlantic Canada. to apply to the Pacific region and that says that the value of the fisheries should be here to benefit people in coastal and indigenous communities and the shoreside businesses that surround them.
speaker-0: Sounds wildly corrupt. I had visions of soprano level gangster activity there holding these licenses and siphoning money off the backs of people doing the work. So that sounds really that's important work. Appreciate you doing that.
speaker-1: Think often when we think about food systems, we're not thinking about those policies that underlie the food systems. And so when we want to have good, robust local food systems that are resilient to global shocks and to things like that, policy like that really informs it. And so I see our business, my job as a business leader in the food space, is also to think about those policies and how they inform our access to food. And so that's why we we engage in that space and we work hard at that.
speaker-0: And from a consumer's perspective at the grocery store, a lot of us are looking for symbols, signals, talking points, you know, call outs to make us feel like, hey, we're making a good purchase here. We're going to consume something that's responsibly or sustainably caught. However, are these certifications doing the job that they're meant to do? Are consumers getting the information that they need? They don't need a lot. They don't want a lot, but is it enough? I feel maybe that it's not. I just There doesn't seem to be the transparency that there should be in the seafood industry.
speaker-1: Yeah, I agree. And I think that's that seafood is especially opaque. It's especially difficult to know where seafood was caught and how and by whom and to to have that information. It's very difficult. I think you're right. There are a lot of organizations that have certification programs or labeling programs that attempt to give the consumer a little bit more information. But even those programs they struggle, and that's because the seafoods, the global seafood supply chain is so especially lengthy and especially difficult to trace through. So they might be able to trace that a species comes from a particular place, but they may not be able to trace who caught it or how they caught it or the gear method. We have particularly weak seafood labeling laws in Canada, and your listeners might be aware of that, that in the EU and in the US and in Japan, you have to put on the label where it was caught, the gear method, the scientific name of the species, all these things have to go on the label. In Canada we don't. We can put the country of most recent major transformation. And so if it was filleted here, it'll just say that it was a product of Canada. And and that's a real problem. So I think consumers struggle with that. When they go to buy seafood, they often hear that there are these problems in the global seafood system. There's slavery and there's environmental degradation, there's overfishing and there are all these problems. And they into the grocery store and they look and they see a little green sticker and they think, ⁓ I don't know, is that enough? And then they shy away from buying seafood. And I think that's really unfortunate. And it's one of the things that we tackle at Skipper Auto because every piece of fish comes with the label with the person's face, who caught it, where, when, how, a little bit about their bio, when it was caught, you know, all that information's on there. And I think we're trying to prove that that can be done. But it has to be we have to be innovative, we have to be creative. if we want to achieve that kind of transparency. And I think at Skipperado we see such high member loyalty, such high ⁓ engagement over such a long period. And it shows that, you know, you have to work hard to build trust. And, you know, in the seafood space especially, that's that's really tricky and it takes a lot of effort.
speaker-0: Trust at the grocery store level in some industries, like in dairy or in meat, there's supply chain to solve the problems and to to come in. Do you see supply chain management or version of it as a good thing in seafood? Or do you feel like that's just yet another, you know, Darth Vader in the mix of this whole thing?
speaker-1: Yeah, it goes back to the sort of policy question, doesn't it? Really? And I think we really need to take a hard look at seafood and seafood supply because we don't have that kind of supply management like we may have in dairy and in other things. We don't have these kinds of protections for harvesters. We don't have traceability. We don't have that kind of management. We really need something like that. We know why we need it in other industries, but we know why we need protections in Atlantic Canada for harvesters. And so I think it's very obvious, you know, what happens when we don't have management, we don't have any sort of controls, we don't know who owns the fish in the water. We know what kinds of problems come. You know, we look at real estate here in Vancouver, and if we don't have things like empty homes taxes or efforts to try to at least manage investment and at how these things, like housing or food, can be used as investment tools. When we don't manage that, we know that it creates problems. So yeah, I don't know what it will look like is a great question exactly how we will manage a supply in British Columbia, but I know we need to change
speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. Now, when it comes to diversity, you know, in the grocery store, every category has many, many players. And for every category that you're looking at, you're seeing five or 10, but this actually probably represents a hundred that want to be in that spot. In in the fresh seafood counter, and in fact, the purchase data kind of proves it that salmon, tuna, and shrimp are just like they are the superstars, but the ocean has so much more to offer. What do you guys see from a consumer demand perspective that is showing are there trends towards being more to explore more seafood? And is that trend resulting in faster sales projections in those areas?
speaker-1: It's certainly one of our key messages to our members is this concept of eating with the ecosystem. And so rather than saying, I would like a fresh piece of salmon on my plate on February seventeenth, we encourage our members to think about this is one of the, or if not the last great wild protein on the planet. We cannot dictate exactly what comes out when, where, and how. And with our oceans changing rapidly, we need to be able to be flexible and eat with the ecosystem. What is abundant, what is sustainable? So that's something that we see our members not only receptive to, but really excited about it. They're always asking, like, what is being caught and what is out there that we're not seeing that's not just the shrimp, tuna, salmon, you know, standards that are always out there. So our members are really receptive to that, always looking for a new product. So I think part of it is storytelling. It's helping people understand why a particular seafood item is a good choice and why it's a you know best for people and for planet. sharing recipes and those kinds of things so that if people see a new product they're unfamiliar with, just helping them to see how they can utilize that. But we just see a huge interest in that. And I think that that's a trend, not just at skipper auto, but there's just, you know, there's that category of foodies who are curious. They want to know the story of their food and they want to explore more diversity of products. And so we're always bringing aboard new products that are storied and traceable and sustainable.
speaker-0: I think some of your bundle offerings too kind of help bring that to life where someone can get something that they know and love, but then have the opportunity to try something new and different or something that they haven't either made it home very much. And it can be a really fun way to bring that culinary level up at home.
speaker-1: Absolutely. When we started Skipper Auto, you know, I was inspired by community supported agriculture, which was a way to connect directly with farmers. But what I didn't want to make was a mystery box. I didn't want people to get a weekly mystery box of whatever fish. Because I know that can be really intimidating for people. So that was really intentional that we designed Skipper Auto so that people bring some money to the equation. They say, Listen, I'm gonna eat $500 worth of fish this year. Here's my five hundred dollars. But I'm gonna get to pick and choose what I want and when I want. So they can go to that online store and as you said, we can encourage people, say, Yep, we have all the favorites. Here they are. But hey, have you ever had turbot or getting wild turbot coming in? That's an Arctic fish. I'm so excited to be able to share that with our members. And so they can, if they're feeling adventurous, they can order a piece of turbot. And if they're not, they can stick to their what they're comfortable with. And I think that choice is really important.
speaker-0: And you use grocery partners for some of the delivery, ⁓ so that someone can order through the co op, but then their local grocery store can be where they go pick up their seafood order, right?
speaker-1: I think this is a really key and awesome piece of our innovation that we've had for a very long time. And that's what we call community partners. So we partner with grocery stores and other retailers, a lot of breweries, lots of lots of stores that are looking to get foot traffic in their stores because I think we all know that seafood, fresh seafood, is tricky to do in the grocery space. And not all stores have the capacity to do that. But we do know that seafood shoppers tend to be foodies. They tend to be curious. They tend when people sp are purchasing seafood, they're on average have a higher ⁓ cart size than than non-seafood shoppers. And so what we can do at Skipper Auto is we can handle the seafood sales. So our members are ordering their seafood from us, we're packing those orders, we're delivering them. We have about a about a hundred community partners across Canada. So these stores receive those pre-packed member orders, they go in their freezer, and then our members are directed to the store to pick them up. And it's a fantastic partnership. Those shoppers are going into the store, they're buying other other things when their store. We've tracked this, we've got it well documented that they shop in that store. When they're there, it builds loyalty. They're going back every week or every month to pick up their seafood and to shop. We've even had grocery partners say that they're selling more from their seafood counter to their skipper auto members. So their their seafood sales are going up. And I was curious at first, but of course, because we don't carry everything. We carry the seafood that comes from our fishing families. But the people that we're driving there are seafood shoppers. So if they walk by that grocery seafood counter and they see something fresh that we don't carry, there they are seafood shoppers and they're stopping. So I think it's a great partnership. It's been really successful. ⁓ and I love that innovation that it also reduces the carbon that we're spending. We're not shipping everything door to door. We do have home delivery as well. But people love being able to go and pick up their seafood at a store, have a face-to-face interaction, get to know their local store. and grab their seafood in this really personal way.
speaker-0: And for those that aren't sitting at home waiting for their seafood delivery to show up on a hot summer day, it's nice to know that someone in the cold chain is being responsible for their for their seafood. I the last time I picked up my order, it was from the choices here in SoSuri. And you know, I wasn't quite sure. I hadn't picked it up there before. So I went to the customer service and ⁓ they're like, ⁓ yeah, ⁓ let me get back to you on that. And someone rushed away and then. They're like, okay, go to the back door. And I went to the wrong door and I'm waiting around. I finally found the right door. And some guy came out and he's like, ⁓ yeah, Skiparado. It felt very incognito. And he brought me this brown bag. I felt like it was a, you know, it was like a drug dealer, whatever. But the guy had a, they all, every person I interacted with about it, they had a big smile on their face. They were so proud to collaborate with you guys. And they were glad to have me there. And of course, yes, I did fill my basket while waiting or wandering around. And I think this is a really, really great. program. Let's talk about frozen for a second. And I feel like I'm seeing more and more commentary around frozen at sea and that like at the boat, you know, like there's either flash freezing. Talk to me about the process of keeping things as fresh as possible. Cause I think seafood is one of those categories where people might not fully understand how something from the ocean can stay fresh and that can be served with confidence. Talk to me about that piece of the puzzle.
speaker-1: I often say that frozen is fresher than fresh. And it takes people a minute to think, what is she talking about? But when you think about, you know, supply chains, if we're catching fish and it's on ice and it's coming from very far away and it's got to go through auctions and wholesalers and things like that, even though it may be in a never-before frozen state when it gets to you, that doesn't necessarily mean it's high quality, right? And so I think you're absolutely right. People are catching on to the fact that flash frozen, high quality frozen fish. frozen at sea or blast frozen immediately on shore is often higher quality than the so-called fresh fish that you can find in in a seafood case. And that's just because freshness is a measure of how long it's been out of the sea at ambient temperature or, you know, four degrees Celsius at fridge temperature. And it will age. You often hear people say that they don't like fish because it smells fishy. And I always say that fishy smelling fish isn't fresh. You smell like the fresh ocean. It shouldn't smell like That sort of icky, fishy smell, right? And so when you catch fish and you flash freeze it, I also say this too sometimes is that wow, freezing technology has sure changed. We can get something from four degrees Celsius to minus 40 in minutes now. And that quick freezing is preserves the cellular structure. And so you don't end up with mushy fish. Whereas if you took a piece of fish and you threw it in your fridge freezer and it froze very slowly. The cell walls would gradually break as that water expands in there. So freezing very quickly and professionally preserves the catch-day freshness. And that means when you take it out of the freezer at home and thaw it, it's as fresh as the day it was caught. And you're not always getting that when you go and buy so-called fresh fish. So I think people are catching on to that. We've done blind side-by-side taste tests. People prefer the frozen fish most of the time because most of the time it's actually fresher. So when they catch on to that, they also realize how convenient it is to have these frozen pieces in your freezer at home. You can thaw that in 20 minutes in a sink of cold water. It takes 10 minutes to cook a beautiful piece of fish and you've got an incredible dinner. As opposed to buying a fresh piece, putting it in the fridge and then, ⁓ you know, baseball game came up and I couldn't cook it last night. ⁓ it's been in the fridge for three days. ⁓ I don't know if it smells fresh fresh anymore. That's very stressful. So I think, yeah, people are catching on to the fact that frozen is an amazing way to go with seafood.
speaker-0: Yeah, so true. I you I'm sorry to tell you, but about eight years ago, I bought some salmon from Costco. And ⁓ I don't remember how quickly I cooked it. Maybe it was the next day. But let's just say that my wife, I I think the sh she still smells the ghost of that fish in this house. It was the most putrid thing. You it was one of those bad fish stories that just it it was, it was, it had spoiled. It was really, really bad. But it put our family off of fish for a while. And that's when my wife instituted the I'm only allowed to cook fish outside on the barbecue rule. So we eat a lot more fish in the summertime realistically than we do in the winter because of the barbecuing season and such. Personal. I know it is sad. ⁓ and I'll I'm trying to train her ⁓ you know, to enjoy seafood in other times of the year, but it's a little bit trickier. But that that's my problem, not yours. One of the I guess it's it's a real mixed bag. And and I know you can speak to this, sort of the challenges and opportunity around. Food sovereignty. And you alluded to the fact that processing of seafood is not happening in Canada, especially in BC the way it should. To me, it feels like there's a like the math you explained around like export versus import. Isn't there just a really clear, easy business case for more seafood processing happening locally? Like it just boggles my mind. What am I missing? Is it just a lack of interest, a lack of investment? Are people distracted by Something else?
speaker-1: I think it goes back to sort of ownership and consolidation and things like that. So if you own licenses for fishing, that means you own the fish in the water and you can lease out the license to fish. But you're maybe a foreign company and maybe you own processing in another country where processing is processing is cheaper. You can make money all along that supply chain, then yeah, that's that's how you're going to end up with these systems where the fish in the water is already owned by someone else because that person also owns. you know, processing and markets in another country and things like that. So that's why I think getting ownership of the fish in Canadian waters, which is, you know, under the Fisheries Act, it is the it is the the property of all Canadians. It's to benefit Canadians. And so getting that brought back to local ownership will also you'll see what will happen is that we will have more processing capacity. I do a lot of mentorship for other seafood businesses around the world, a lot in the US. Every fishing community that I go to in the US has owner-operator protections, whether that's Alaska or California or the East Coast. And in every community I go to, you'll see thriving shoreside businesses, many different processing plants, ice houses, different companies who are buying seafood, and those companies are thriving there. So it just shows you don't need to own the fish in the water to have a thriving shoreside business. And in fact, when community-based harvesters own their own access, They can choose to have that fish processed locally, to sell into local markets. And I think it will really change grocery access to local seafood if people who are fishing, catching that fish, have agency to choose where to have it processed and where to sell it. We'll see a change in our seafood supply chain here, all through the system, if we can bring that ownership back. So I do think that's a big piece of why we don't see the processing here. It's all it's you know, it's largely going offshore and it's leaving our waters before we have a chance to have any say over who gets to eat it.
speaker-0: Yeah, I was gonna ask you about like Washington State and Alaska and kind of where they're at with it. It sounds like they're a little further ahead than we are here in BC, which is that's unfortunate. Let's talk about land-based aquaculture. Is that ⁓ growing fish and seafood stuff on land, you know, that's the layman's terms, as a good thing? Do you see it as creating challenges? I mean, from a global protein perspective, it's it's championed, but I know it's a bit complicated. So from your perspective, you know, how do you see that type of fish and seafood farming?
speaker-1: Yeah, I know it sounds logical on the surface that we could farm fish on land, we farm so many other things on land, but there's a few things that I think people are often not thinking about. One of those is that the seafood that we like to eat typically are carnivorous. And we don't typically farm other carnivores, right? We don't farm lions because we would have to raise goats to feed them. And so feeding carnivores to make food is a really inefficient way to feed ourselves to make produ to produce protein. So if we're farming, whether they're salmon or they're other carnivorous fish on land, yes, taking them on land takes them out of the ocean. So it removes some of those big problems with open net pen fish farming, pollution, disease, going straight into our oceans. Yes, it solves some of those. But you still have to feed those fish. And so that's the question, what do you feed them? And if you don't feed them their natural diet, they don't tend to taste like themselves. And so this is, I think, one of the problems I hear from chefs and I hear from folks in the industry that they're excited to see some innovation in on land salmon farming, but the feed can be very expensive and the fish can end up not having the same taste, not having the same flavors. It's very expensive, and it should be, because we shouldn't be dumping the waste and the pollution and the all of the after effects of open net pen fish farming into our commons, into the to the oceans. So it's natural, it's going to be more expensive to farm it on land as well. And so I do, I ask the question if we are just coming up with ever more complicated solutions to what's actually quite a simple problem, which is that wild seafood, caught and eaten locally, is actually one of the lowest carbon proteins on the planet. The ocean does produce seafood in abundance if we are not trying to commodify and ship it around the world, if we are thinking about it as our local resource. And so it's around management, it's around who we're feeding with that seafood and what is the purpose of it. I really truly believe, and there's a lot of research on this as well, that seafood, wild local cut seafood is a really important part of responsible local diets. And when we try to come up with those online fish farm solutions, I think we're coming up with an excessively complicated solution to a problem that's actually quite simple.
speaker-0: And active processing, then it's things like tinned fish, very trendy, by the way, over the last 18 months or so. It's ⁓ always a fun. There's so much, I don't know about innovation per se. Maybe there's a little bit, but a lot of great branding and and whatever. I grew up with a dad that always had ⁓ has he sardines ⁓ at lunch. It was I was his go-to. I was the kid that would go home for lunch at s you know during school and had like sardines and bean and bacon soup. So Anyway, when it comes to processing like tin fish, canned fish and are those types of things happening local or is that the same thing? Like a a lot of that stuff's happening outside of the country.
speaker-1: Yeah, that is all that is a big problem. We used to have ⁓ hundreds of canneries in British Columbia and there's really one left in that St. Jean's cannery on Vancouver Island. ⁓ there and that's crazy to think about. All of the local processing has simply disappeared. So most of the seafood that you can buy on the grocery shelf that's canned is coming from being canned somewhere else. And and you might be seeing that it's ⁓ you know, made in China, but it may have actually been caught here and the fish may have been shipped there for canning. Yeah, that's I think that's a real problem because you're right. Canning is a wonderful way to preserve. And if you are canning high quality fish, you know, that's an incredible product. A lot of the canned fish that we do get has had the oils pressed out of it before it's been canned, and then it's canned in vegetable oil or olive oil or something like that. So you're missing all of those rich omega-3s and all of the oils that you're hoping to get out of fish that's been pressed out and sold off. It's such a shame. But when canning is done well. And it's done with good quality fish. That's just an incredible, delicious product. We have a whole variety of smoked canned fish. We have all kinds of different canned fish. And having that, I have that on my desk here at work. So if I forgot my lunch, I can grab some some salad and open a tin and put some fish on that. That's a great thing to have. But yeah, we've lost that capacity too. And we really need to see that come back.
speaker-0: And you and your team have been working with indigenous communities for a long time. Tell me a little bit more about those relationships and the impact that those small businesses have on their communities.
speaker-1: Yeah, I I mean our our First Nations fishing families are really traditional keepers of knowledge that goes back since time immemorial. How do we exist as a part of that food system and part of that ecosystem and part of a community in relation with our seafood? And so they're incredible teachers to all of us. And I have just loved learning from s ⁓ so many different fisheries and so many indigenous communities about traditional ways that fish was harvested. Practices around ensuring that the sea the salmon especially are coming back year after year after year. I think one of the great examples is over in Port Albernie, the Sashot First Nation we work closely with. They manage the fishery there. They are on the round table with the non-Indigenous fish harvesters from all the different sectors and with the First Nations. And they work together in a round table there to really share knowledge and to ensure that those fish come back year after year. They're often Setting their own total allowable catch lower than what the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is setting because they know they want to ensure those fish are coming back year after year. And I think it's fantastic. I think the storytelling that First Nations want to share about fishing in their communities, what it means to them, what the seafood means to them is so important. And that's one of the things that we do at Skate Rado is make sure that our customers get to know the people who are catching their fish and what it means to them. I think that's really rich. And in a world of AI, I mean, boy, people are really looking for true personal relationships and connections and storytelling. And that's something that we can do as a community supported fishery, build those relationships.
speaker-0: I love it. Very cool. I want to just say that I think the work that you guys do is very difficult. At least it looks hard from the outside looking in, but you guys do it so you make it look effortless. And it's a very noble cause and appreciate what you're doing and how you're doing it. So thank you. My final question for you. It's an easy one. Best shopping, grocery shopping experience anywhere in the world. Where was it?
speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh, what a question. ⁓ that's not fair because I really should pick a BC story. But I the first thing that jumped to my mind was ⁓ you know, I was in Germany last summer and I went into a a market and didn't even know this market would be open, but evidently everyone else in Frankfurt knew this was there. And just the throng of people who are buying just incredibly fresh products out of these little stalls, just like farmers' markets, but you they've got these warehouse type food halls and I didn't know what I was looking for. And I just picked a bunch of cheese and meats and things and olives and sat on the riverside and just, you know, blew my mind the freshness and the quality. So like I love that personal connection, going somewhere, talking to somebody who's actually so proud of the food that they produced. And then when they serve it to you, like it was just such a touching and sweet moment. This woman put together this dish for me. So like I th I think that's probably one of my favorite recent grocery shopping.
speaker-0: Food connects us, doesn't it?
speaker-1: Sure does, it sure does.
speaker-0: Sonny, thank you for the time and excited for everything that's coming up for Skipper Auto and your team.
speaker-1: Thanks so much, Corbin. It's great to see you and great to chat with you.
speaker-0: Thanks for listening to this episode of Shelf Space. If you like what you hear, I would be eternally grateful for a five-star rating and a quick share on social. Your support means the world to me and our partners: TD, Faskin, Rema, Pacific Coast Distribution, Picnic Creative, and Benchmark 60. For bonus content and resources from our sponsors, go to ShelfSpacePodcast.com. I'm Corbin Hebert. I'm glad we're on this rocket ship together. I'll see you in the future.
