WEBVTT
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00:00:01.520So I asked a million dollars for the property.
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00:00:09.679Somebody offered him two million dollars, and that there's a clause in the contract that said that he could actually get out of it if I couldn't show a commitment letter from the bank within 10 days.
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00:00:13.519Took one bite of the five guys' burger, I'm like, hey, forget about Ruth Chris.
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00:00:14.480I want to do this.
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00:00:18.239They put a lot of pressure on me to develop quicker, to be there.
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00:00:24.879You know, and then it then if something doesn't go right, it's like, oh my gosh, Brian's this or that, and now he's done.
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00:00:35.439Welcome to the Chalspring Podcast.
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00:00:37.759Today I am actually with Mr.
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00:00:40.159Robert Baxter in his home.
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00:00:41.840He's welcomed us in.
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00:00:50.159And uh Robert, for anybody that doesn't know, is the owner of East versus West coming in, doing a lot of awesome things with that.
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00:00:53.200But uh you've got quite a backstory, man.
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00:00:55.600And I've you know done a little bit of research.
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00:01:03.920We've talked a little bit, but I would love to hear more of your backstory, you know, business, arm wrestling, all of this fun stuff.
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00:01:07.280So wherever it makes sense to start would be great.
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00:01:12.560Yeah, you know, I mean uh uh I I've been doing arm wrestling for a long time.
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00:01:18.879You know, I think a lot of people probably know, but I started 32 years ago in in arm wrestling.
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00:01:19.92032, yeah.
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00:01:22.159And what got you what got you interested?
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00:01:25.519Was it like had you watched it or somebody said, hey, you should try this?
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00:01:33.439Yeah, I I started just like everybody in in grade school and middle school, high school, all that kind of stuff, and and did, you know, and just enjoyed it.
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00:01:35.359I mean just had fun arm wrestling.
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00:01:54.400And then in college as well, did a lot of you know, just fun, you know, with uh I ran track in in college and uh you know arm wrestled the guys on the track team and the field guys and the football guys and just had fun with it, but but never really you know really got into the competitive side of it.
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00:01:58.799I mean, I didn't know I really didn't know there were leagues and there were you know there are tournaments.
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00:02:00.799Um I've seen it on Wide World of Sports.
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00:02:04.159I don't know if you remember back in the day, you would it was probably before your time, Ryan.
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00:02:05.280You're a young guy.
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00:02:08.879But it's it it it was on the wide world of sports in Petaluma.
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00:02:11.199You'd have the world championships, and it was a big deal.
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00:02:13.360I mean, it was televised every year.
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00:02:18.479Um so I saw that when I was a kid, but I just didn't know, you know, where was that?
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00:02:27.280Was that because they they put also strongman was on wide world of sports back in the because that started in the late in 77.
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00:02:30.400So was it around like was the early 80s for this?
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00:02:31.360Or yeah, it was.
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00:02:48.719It was it was uh I I remember seeing it even in the late 70s, I'm because I was in high school and uh or I was like maybe I was even younger, but I remember seeing it clear back even before the early 80s, but then it was kind of still popular in the early 80s on the on television.
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00:02:59.520So as far as sports go, like growing up, were like was there something you were drawn to before the arm wrestling, or did that kind of just interlace with all the other sports?
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00:03:04.960Well, I was kind of drawn to uh individual sports quite a bit, you know.
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00:03:06.719So not as much the team sports.
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00:03:07.120Yeah.
00:03:07.199 -->
00:03:11.599I mean I did I did like little league football, baseball, kind of that kind of stuff.
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00:03:13.199And and and that was enjoyable.
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00:03:13.599Okay.
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00:03:19.120But I really liked when I got into high school and and tried out for the track team.
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00:03:19.599Okay.
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00:03:24.080And um, you know, a little more individual, you know, yet team, you know.
00:03:24.159 -->
00:03:30.560I mean, but uh I really I really liked really having everything kind of based on my effort, you know.
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00:03:35.680So whate whatever I were there certain certain events that you liked or what you what was your favorite?
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00:03:41.919My favorite, actually, it it started out as my my least favorite was the 400 meters.
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00:03:47.919I I I ran the 400 meter dash um only because I was so bad at it.
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00:03:56.719Uh in on the track team, the coach said, Hey, everybody run one lap around the track, and uh which is 400 meters, a quarter mile.
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00:04:00.080And I literally came in dead last of all the boys.
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00:04:00.479Okay.
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00:04:03.360And I'm like, you know, I I took it as kind of a personal challenge.
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00:04:05.120Like, I I can't believe how bad I'm.
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00:04:08.800I'm gonna, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna work hard to change this around.
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00:04:13.680But still through the rest of the year, I I lost every every track, I mean every meet.
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00:04:16.079I never I never you know did well.
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00:04:24.079And at the end of the season, I went to my track coach, who was a who was a big college star, and he was an 800-meter star.
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00:04:25.920Everybody in our school knew it.
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00:04:32.079And um, and he would always like you know, tease me and say, you know, hey, you run like a giraffe, man.
00:04:32.240 -->
00:04:35.360I mean, I'm I'm like, well, I don't know if that's a compliment.
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00:04:37.040Well, it's it's not, it's not.
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00:04:40.240And so, you know, it was more motivation, like, man, I gotta do better.
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00:04:49.279So I said, Hey, how how can I, you know, next year be the best in the school and break the school record in the 400 meters?
00:04:49.600 -->
00:04:52.720And I honestly thought he was gonna laugh because I was so bad.
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00:04:53.199Yeah.
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00:04:54.560And uh he didn't laugh.
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00:05:07.439He said, if you run 10 miles every single day from now till next year, so for a whole year, when you come back uh next season, you know, you'll you'll break the school record, you'll be the best.
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00:05:09.199Um, I'm like, okay.
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00:05:12.319So I didn't question, I'm like, you know, 10 miles?
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00:05:14.079How's that translate to 400 meters?
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00:05:14.399Yeah.
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00:05:15.519I did I just believed him.
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00:05:18.480I'm like, dude, I'm gonna do exactly what you say.
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00:05:18.959Okay.
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00:05:20.160So I didn't miss a day.
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00:05:30.639I I went every day for 10 miles, rain or snow, and in Utah, you know, with when it snows, I mean, like when you know because of Colorado, yes, it it's icy, snowy, didn't matter.
00:05:30.720 -->
00:05:32.160I mean, I I made the commitment.
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00:05:33.439I'm gonna I'm gonna do it every day.
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00:05:34.399And you did it every day.
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00:05:34.879Every day.
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00:05:35.279Okay.
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00:05:42.240So um, and then when I came back the next year, sure enough, um, everything he said came true.
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00:05:46.399And um, you know, so I I I really started enjoying track at that point.
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00:05:47.199Well, sure.
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00:05:51.279Uh as you as your performance increases, then you you enjoy it more naturally.
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00:05:52.639Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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00:06:02.959So I I I I really loved it and then um went to college, got a scholarship in the four uh, but my the coach, my track coach in college moved me to the 400 meter hurdles.
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00:06:05.920He said, you know what, you're so tall, let's get you trained.
00:06:06.319 -->
00:06:09.120I didn't know how to run hurdles, but he showed, I mean, he trained me.
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00:06:09.600Interesting.
00:06:09.759 -->
00:06:11.439I mean, that's that's quite a difference.
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00:06:15.839It is right, it is yeah to run hurdles versus a straight 400 meters.
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00:06:20.480Yeah, it is, but from my style, I mean, like I I kind of had a long stride.
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00:06:22.800Um, it actually made it pretty easy.
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00:06:24.480I mean, it it interesting.
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00:06:28.879Most people in track will say that the hardest race is the 400 meter hurdles.
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00:06:29.360Okay.
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00:06:36.000If you were to poll people that know, yeah, but for me it really wasn't because um it just kind of was natural.
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00:06:36.720Interesting.
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00:06:39.439So I'm glad my coach figured that out for me.
00:06:39.519 -->
00:06:41.439Uh so he plugged you into it.
00:06:41.680 -->
00:06:48.720He did, and and he's like, this is what you need to do, and here's how you and and just showed me exactly like trained, you know, with the right training.
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00:06:50.560And yeah, I I really loved it.
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00:06:53.439Um, but um and where did you go to college at?
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00:06:55.680Utah State University in Logan, Utah, yeah.
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00:06:56.079Okay.
00:06:56.240 -->
00:06:59.920So only about a uh not quite a two-hour drive from right here.
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00:07:03.040Which is I mean, um that's kind of your backyard, right?
00:07:03.120 -->
00:07:07.040So it's nice to have that and like going to school close.
00:07:07.199 -->
00:07:10.399You know, I mean I a lot of people it's it's interesting with college.
00:07:10.480 -->
00:07:19.600Like you go some people, you know, especially for sports, you get recruited and you go super far away, which is a different, a different experience, you know.
00:07:19.759 -->
00:07:28.319Um, and for me, I uh at least with basketball, I chose to go to a JUCO first because I feel I felt like that was a good outlet.
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00:07:34.879And I, you know, I I went to a little bit smaller high school, so it's like, okay, well now I can prove myself, you know, playing JUCO.
00:07:35.040 -->
00:07:39.439But that was that was probably two, you know, a good two-hour drive away from home.
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00:07:44.160So I could come home when I wanted to, you know, or or if you had a weekend or something like whatever.
00:07:44.319 -->
00:07:52.480But so so you know, it's nice to have that where you can go close, yeah, like fairly close to home, and then you know, I'm I'm assuming family and stuff could come watch you.
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00:07:52.800Yeah.
00:07:53.040 -->
00:07:54.160Like when you had meets.
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00:07:54.639Yep.
00:07:54.720 -->
00:07:56.800I always got nervous when they came and and watched.
00:07:56.879 -->
00:08:01.439I'm like, uh, you know, I I'd prefer just you know, not really, you didn't want them there.
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00:08:06.000No, I mean they came and I didn't I didn't dissuade them or I didn't uh tell them not to, but sure.
00:08:06.240 -->
00:08:11.839I mean to me it's like I'd rather just you know that's fair, that's fair.
00:08:12.079 -->
00:08:15.360But but now, no, I I I like my family being like for arm wrestling.
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00:08:15.680Yeah.
00:08:15.920 -->
00:08:24.879My wife always uh you know would mostly always come to the but you now so you were in high school and college and you were arm wrestling everybody on the track to you.
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00:08:26.319Yeah, yeah, just because it was so fun.
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00:08:27.600Yeah, I mean I I really enjoyed it.
00:08:27.680 -->
00:08:28.639I've always enjoyed it.
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00:08:30.800And then Did they enjoy it?
00:08:31.040 -->
00:08:36.559You know, yeah, I mean I I I I think I think uh I mean I'm assuming you were beating you were beating them.
00:08:36.799 -->
00:08:46.399I mean they probably didn't enjoy it as much, but uh yeah, I mean I I actually enjoyed it even even when I lost uh for uh you know with going against competitive arm wrestlers.
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00:08:57.600Okay, you know, it was really John Bersink that got me into it, not knowingly, but um you know, I I'd already um started a business in in college.
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00:08:59.200Um and what was that?
00:08:59.440 -->
00:09:10.399It was video production, and it was basically it ended up being, you know, we we did training videos for local businesses and like Lazy Boy, the headquarters in Logan, Utah.
00:09:10.559 -->
00:09:12.799So it just worked out that we could do something with them.
00:09:12.879 -->
00:09:16.240And then I don't know if you remember DeLorean, the old DeLorean Back to the Future card.
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00:09:23.840Yes, that we had a big uh DeLorean distribution plant in Logan as well, so we did videos for them and interesting in the college as well.
00:09:23.919 -->
00:09:28.320And so and then so I mean that had to be pretty early in that in that realm.
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00:09:30.960It was really early, and that's why I wanted to get into it.
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00:09:32.000I'm like, you know what?
00:09:32.159 -->
00:09:45.759This is this is a business that I think if we get into right now, it was just it was just ending the film era, everything was kind of filmed in 16 millimeter, got it, and then even eight millimeter and super eight millimeter for home movies and stuff.
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00:09:46.399Yep.
00:09:46.639 -->
00:09:54.960And so uh I I got into it really because I uh I I I wanted to do some I knew I wanted to do something in business.
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00:09:55.519Okay.
00:09:55.759 -->
00:10:11.440And um, and I'd already done a little bit, dabbled a little bit in high school with with the business, and and um, you know, I I used my dad as a kind of kind of a gauge and kind of to help me guide me a little bit, even though he's not a businessman, never never was.
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00:10:14.240He's very well educated or he's very well read.
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00:10:14.720Okay.
00:10:14.960 -->
00:10:23.360And so um he would read all the different uh you know magazines and and uh you know he'd read the Wall Street Journal every day and the stuff.
00:10:23.679 -->
00:10:23.840Okay.
00:10:24.240 -->
00:10:25.519You know, he lived in Oregon.
00:10:25.759 -->
00:10:33.519My mom and dad were divorced when I was two, and so I I went to my senior year at in uh in the Portland area, Lake Oswico High School.
00:10:33.679 -->
00:10:42.240Okay, and uh and and so he was a he was a college professor at that time, and and so um I said, Hey, would would you support me?
00:10:42.320 -->
00:10:44.879And you know, what do you think about this business idea?
00:10:44.960 -->
00:10:47.679And I I explained it to him and he said, That's a great idea.
00:10:47.840 -->
00:10:50.799But he ed every idea I had, he would say, That's a great idea.
00:10:51.120 -->
00:10:52.000And then encourage you to do it.
00:10:52.159 -->
00:10:55.840And then encourage me and tell me how I could actually make it, you know, be successful at it.
00:10:55.919 -->
00:10:56.159Yeah.
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00:11:02.000And and uh I thought he would like support me financially as well in this idea, because he liked the idea.
00:11:02.080 -->
00:11:02.240Yeah.
00:11:02.399 -->
00:11:05.840But he said, No, no, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna support you financially.
00:11:06.399 -->
00:11:07.759I think it's a great idea, but no.
00:11:08.639 -->
00:11:14.320So he would tell me like where to go to like he said you need to do uh you need to write a business plan.
00:11:14.559 -->
00:11:14.799Okay.
00:11:15.039 -->
00:11:23.759And then you need to take that business plan and you need to go to investors, uh uh potential investors with that and a survey.
00:11:23.840 -->
00:11:26.639You need to survey the local businesses around that might use your service.
00:11:26.720 -->
00:11:34.639It looks like a little I don't know if you remember back in the day, but you you know, restaurants would have placemats and a lot of them disposable placemats.
00:11:34.879 -->
00:11:37.600And so it was a cost for the restaurants.
00:11:37.840 -->
00:11:38.159Sure.
00:11:38.399 -->
00:11:51.600And um I thought, you know what, if we put advertising on the placemats, got some of the local businesses to to pay uh for the advertising, then I can give those those placemats to the restaurants and make some money, right?
00:11:51.840 -->
00:11:54.080And so so that was the idea.
00:11:54.399 -->
00:12:18.720And and and my dad encouraged me and said, okay, take a survey go out to local businesses, see see what people would pay for a service like that per you know 10,000 placemats or whatever, and um, and then um, you know, just take those survey survey results and uh and and check with the restaurants too to see if they would if if they'd be open to free placemas.
00:12:19.039 -->
00:12:19.519That makes sense.
00:12:19.759 -->
00:12:28.080And then take that and uh and with your business plan and I'll introduce you to some people I know and and they might be interested in being an investor.
00:12:28.399 -->
00:12:29.679And so I did that.
00:12:29.759 -->
00:12:32.639I I just followed everything he said to the T.
00:12:32.960 -->
00:12:33.200Okay.
00:12:33.600 -->
00:12:39.919And um, you know, got invest got the investors, and um it, you know, it it was great.
00:12:40.000 -->
00:12:41.200It was really fun for me.
00:12:41.519 -->
00:12:41.679Sure.
00:12:42.000 -->
00:12:53.440And then and then in college, I I I actually moved from Oregon to uh Utah and uh wanted to start another business, and that was that was video, right?
00:12:53.519 -->
00:12:57.759Because I thought video is the is probably the kind of the next future, the next step, right?
00:12:58.080 -->
00:13:05.919Which is I mean it's it's awesome to have that, you know, a lot of times it's that vision of what's coming, yeah, and and where it will go.
00:13:06.000 -->
00:13:31.679And you know, I mean, I it it's it's um you know, as you look back, I think through I guess you can say history of w how things play out, you know, first it's probably you know, pictures and then quality of pictures and then video and then quality of video, and you know, it goes and even now it's evolving so quickly, you know, but to have that that kind of foresight of like, oh, I I want to do this with video, I mean to me it's fascinating, right?
00:13:31.759 -->
00:13:37.200Like in college, especially because you're not even out of college, so it's like, okay, well, here's an opportunity, let's go after it.
00:13:37.519 -->
00:13:38.240Yeah, exactly.
00:13:38.320 -->
00:13:40.879And I I just always thought it was just big fun.
00:13:40.960 -->
00:13:43.039It was just like something I really wanted to do.
00:13:43.200 -->
00:13:45.200I thought it was just kind of exciting.
00:13:45.440 -->
00:13:50.720Um, and so I before I did the business, I uh I had it all planned out what I was gonna do.
00:13:50.799 -->
00:13:57.600I was gonna do, you know, training videos, I was gonna do wedding videos, and I called my dad, I said, Hey dad, what do you think?
00:13:57.679 -->
00:14:02.320Um and he said, like he always did, great idea, super supportive.
00:14:02.720 -->
00:14:04.080You know, but of course he's not gonna pay.
00:14:04.639 -->
00:14:05.360He's not gonna invest.
00:14:06.080 -->
00:14:12.000So he said, uh, you know, but you could also do a lot more with your camera.
00:14:12.080 -->
00:14:19.279You could transfer old home movies for people and for the college and other colleges, they're 16 millimeter movies, to video.
00:14:19.759 -->
00:14:21.279And I'm like, okay, great.
00:14:21.519 -->
00:14:25.279So I started I started doing that as adding that as one of our services.
00:14:25.440 -->
00:14:25.679Interesting.
00:14:26.000 -->
00:14:41.759That just grew and grew and grew because I noticed when we put in the newspaper um and and in the Sunday paper in the big paper, um, and we put it at at the and and it ran at the front of the paper, um uh uh above the fold.
00:14:41.919 -->
00:14:44.960So you know, I don't know if you remember the papers, but they fold in the middle.
00:14:45.360 -->
00:14:46.559Sunday paper was a big deal.
00:14:46.639 -->
00:14:46.720Yeah.
00:14:46.879 -->
00:14:47.279Oh yeah, yeah.
00:14:47.759 -->
00:14:56.799So so I thought, you know, if I can design a an ad to go to where it naturally kind of goes to it it it's easy to lay out at the top.
00:14:57.039 -->
00:14:57.279Yeah.
00:14:57.440 -->
00:14:59.679It kind of it was kind of a dollar bill size.
00:15:00.240 -->
00:15:05.039Um and then I make it a cartoon or kind of a comic kind of a So it draws attention.
00:15:05.360 -->
00:15:13.039Yeah, because you know, back in those days, I mean in the newspaper, the comic section, everybody reads the comic section at the back because it's kind of fun.
00:15:13.279 -->
00:15:14.720But um so I made it that way.
00:15:14.799 -->
00:15:20.240I hired a local artist, you know, cartoonist to to make to make my my ad that way.
00:15:20.480 -->
00:15:27.840And then um I just ran it every Sunday, but but it wasn't really working all the time.
00:15:28.159 -->
00:15:32.320And you know, it if it was at the back of the paper or below the fold, it just didn't work.
00:15:32.559 -->
00:15:33.200I'd lose money.
00:15:33.440 -->
00:15:33.679Okay.
00:15:33.840 -->
00:15:41.519Um so I went to the paper and said, Look, can you guys run this just at the very top of the A3?
00:15:42.159 -->
00:15:45.759So A one is the front page, can't uh can't advertise.
00:15:46.080 -->
00:15:52.480A two is you know, you f it's flimsy, so it you know, you're you're it's not on a flat surface usually, right?
00:15:52.559 -->
00:15:54.879And so um A three is the best.
00:15:54.960 -->
00:15:55.120Okay.
00:15:55.519 -->
00:16:00.480So I said, if you can run it on A3 at the top, um, you know, I'll I'll pay you.
00:16:00.720 -->
00:16:02.320I mean, I'll I'll pay you uh in advance.
00:16:02.480 -->
00:16:02.639Yeah.
00:16:02.879 -->
00:16:04.320And they're like they they're like laughed.
00:16:04.399 -->
00:16:05.919They said, no, no, you doesn't work that way.
00:16:06.000 -->
00:16:12.879You can't you can't be on top of the of the big ads that are paying big money, yes, um, way more more than you are.
00:16:13.039 -->
00:16:19.120Um and I said, I said, no, no, no, don't run me above them if there's you know, unless there's space.
00:16:19.279 -->
00:16:25.039So whenever there's space available, yeah, just run it here, and then if there's not, just you know, hold on to the check.
00:16:25.360 -->
00:16:25.679Got it.
00:16:25.919 -->
00:16:32.799But every week they would run it on the very top of A3 because they can design the paper, they they can do whatever they want.
00:16:33.039 -->
00:16:35.759And they're not gonna let$300 go back in those days.
00:16:35.919 -->
00:16:36.080Yeah.
00:16:36.480 -->
00:16:37.759They won't let that go to waste.
00:16:37.919 -->
00:16:44.799So and then I just went went around the to other um cities, big, much bigger cities than Salt Lake.
00:16:45.200 -->
00:16:47.279And and all of them did the same thing.
00:16:47.440 -->
00:16:52.399So that's what got us really big into the the the movie transfer.
00:16:52.559 -->
00:16:52.799Sure.
00:16:53.039 -->
00:16:59.600And then became the you know, the largest in the country and the world, actually, for that little business.
00:16:59.759 -->
00:17:06.079You know, I mean it it just became and we were running 24-7, so I had chefs and you know, just always there.
00:17:06.240 -->
00:17:11.519Like it it just it it it was really quite quite a big deal, but it came from my dad.
00:17:11.759 -->
00:17:11.920Yeah.
00:17:12.240 -->
00:17:14.000Because I would have never even thought of it.
00:17:14.160 -->
00:17:20.319But because he was so well read and he'd read all and then he would you know, he had a photographic memory as well.
00:17:20.400 -->
00:17:30.799So he'd everything he read he'd retain, and then he was able to really connect dots and and and you know figure things out based on the information that he received.
00:17:31.039 -->
00:17:37.519And um and and he you know, so he knew stuff, so I mean, or he knew that that was gonna be a big thing.
00:17:37.680 -->
00:17:37.920Yeah.
00:17:38.079 -->
00:17:43.039Um how many people I I mean, scaling like that, was it just you to start?
00:17:43.119 -->
00:17:51.680And then I'm assuming you had to have people helping and like yeah, it started out, it it was just me and my brother-in-law, Julie's my wife's brother.
00:17:51.920 -->
00:17:52.240Okay.
00:17:52.400 -->
00:17:57.440Um, we he her or he and I were at uh Utah State University together and we became best friends.
00:17:57.680 -->
00:17:58.000Awesome.
00:17:58.319 -->
00:17:59.920And so we started the business together.
00:18:00.000 -->
00:18:01.759I said, Hey, would you like to start a business with me?
00:18:01.839 -->
00:18:02.880And he's like, Yeah, let's do it.
00:18:03.119 -->
00:18:06.880Is this before you before you guys were together?
00:18:07.200 -->
00:18:09.279Like before No, we were married.
00:18:09.440 -->
00:18:11.519So so my wife and I were already married.
00:18:11.759 -->
00:18:12.480Oh wow, okay.
00:18:12.640 -->
00:18:12.720Yeah.
00:18:12.880 -->
00:18:14.319So you guys got married married early though.
00:18:14.640 -->
00:18:14.880Really early.
00:18:15.119 -->
00:18:16.240So we got married at 18.
00:18:16.319 -->
00:18:18.160So she came every year to Utah for two.
00:18:18.319 -->
00:18:21.119All right, so she's from California, and she would vacation here.
00:18:21.440 -->
00:18:23.279And we met when I was we were 12 years old.
00:18:23.599 -->
00:18:24.480Oh my gosh, okay.
00:18:24.880 -->
00:18:29.359Okay, and we would just write together, and then then every year she'd come up and vacation again.
00:18:29.440 -->
00:18:30.480That's that's so cool.
00:18:30.960 -->
00:18:31.519With her family.
00:18:32.000 -->
00:18:38.559And uh so so when we were 18, like when not when we were freshmen in college, yeah, um, we decided, okay, let's let's get married.
00:18:38.720 -->
00:18:41.839And so um she moved from California to Utah.
00:18:42.079 -->
00:18:42.400Wow.
00:18:42.559 -->
00:18:46.640And and then So had you met you, I'm assuming you had met her brother before then.
00:18:46.880 -->
00:18:47.039Yeah.
00:18:47.200 -->
00:18:58.240So I well I had met because he came to Utah from California to his his parents and my wife's parents asked him to come and talk us out of getting married, you know, because we were only 18, right?
00:18:58.480 -->
00:18:58.960Yeah, of course.
00:18:59.599 -->
00:19:02.960So so he came there to say, hey, you know, please don't do it.
00:19:03.039 -->
00:19:04.720You don't guys don't know what you're doing.
00:19:04.960 -->
00:19:10.079And um, so so she was eloping because her parents were totally against it.
00:19:10.319 -->
00:19:16.960And so um he he flew out to Utah and and then we met and we arm wrestled, actually.
00:19:17.039 -->
00:19:18.079So he was a big wrestler.
00:19:18.480 -->
00:19:18.640Okay.
00:19:19.359 -->
00:19:24.880He was also a college wrestler, and he was like athlete of the year in California in his California high school, Concord, California.
00:19:25.119 -->
00:19:32.480Okay, and so he was like, you know, very, very uh he was a strong guy, naturally really good at at all sports.
00:19:32.559 -->
00:19:40.079And so we ended up arm wrestling on the on the floor of her you know, my wife's grandma's house and his his grandma's house.
00:19:40.319 -->
00:19:44.400Okay, and and I beat him, but it was it was actually you know pretty hard.
00:19:44.480 -->
00:19:45.359He was actually pretty good.
00:19:45.440 -->
00:19:49.039Yeah, and uh and so we just became instant friends.
00:19:49.200 -->
00:19:53.359So he called back home to his parents and said, Hey, I think she should get married.
00:19:54.240 -->
00:19:59.440And so he was meant to meant to stop it and instead got on board.
00:19:59.680 -->
00:20:01.279And and we just became best friends.
00:20:01.680 -->
00:20:11.519And so uh so he changed schools, he he was uh and went to Utah State and and we just started doing more and more stuff together, more and more business.
00:20:11.839 -->
00:20:15.759And to this day, we're business partners in like the five guys.
00:20:15.839 -->
00:20:20.640Yeah, and in you know, lots of other I mean, you know, all the different businesses I've done throughout the years.
00:20:20.960 -->
00:20:25.599So you scaled it together then like that the video business only for a little while.
00:20:26.000 -->
00:20:32.799So um so he and he had to get his construction management degree, and Utah State didn't offer that, so he had to change schools to BYU.
00:20:32.960 -->
00:20:33.200Okay.
00:20:33.519 -->
00:20:36.160That was one of the schools that offered construction management.
00:20:36.480 -->
00:20:50.960And so uh I bought him out after like a a year or so or two, and then um just kept scaling and and so this little town of Logan, Utah, it's only got like you know, 40,000 people or so, so it's not a big, big town.
00:20:51.200 -->
00:20:57.839Um we had our our biggest um competitor that um I was friends with as well.
00:20:58.000 -->
00:21:08.799And I said, Hey, what what what if I move my business, and this is after college, what if I move my business to um Salt Lake City, and then you just send all of your work, your video work to me.
00:21:08.960 -->
00:21:14.960Oh, okay, and I'll give you a you know a good rate, and and then you're here really by yourself.
00:21:15.119 -->
00:21:17.359I mean, and he's like, Great, let's do it.
00:21:17.440 -->
00:21:20.640So, so I gotta keep the business that we had in in Logan.
00:21:20.799 -->
00:21:32.000Okay, and uh moved to Salt Lake and then started scaling it really in Salt Lake is where we really think that's but I also opened a you know a restaurant in Logan at the same time.
00:21:32.160 -->
00:21:35.839Okay, and and and I didn't realize how hard the restaurant business is.
00:21:36.000 -->
00:21:42.319Yeah, that's and you know, so I have a lot of respect for Dexter because he is doing all kinds of restaurants.
00:21:42.400 -->
00:21:48.000You know, he's got uh like eight different restaurants, including the uh Miyazaki, the you know, the Japanese.
00:21:48.400 -->
00:21:49.119Yeah, it's anyway.
00:21:50.160 -->
00:21:55.039I mean it's it's wild, like just a story of college business.
00:21:55.200 -->
00:21:55.359Yep.
00:21:55.519 -->
00:21:55.680Right.
00:21:55.759 -->
00:21:59.680So come out and I'm imagining by the time you finish college this business is doing well.
00:22:00.319 -->
00:22:04.160So are you is that kind of the catalyst then to to the restaurant?
00:22:04.240 -->
00:22:09.920Like where you're like, okay, I'm gonna take some of this and kind of invest it more in the restaurant side of it.
00:22:10.240 -->
00:22:10.640Exactly.
00:22:10.720 -->
00:22:14.079I I I thought, you know what, this town needs a good burger place.
00:22:14.240 -->
00:22:19.279It does it has no like Utah's notorious for not having good food.
00:22:19.519 -->
00:22:19.759Okay.
00:22:20.079 -->
00:22:20.880It's getting way better.
00:22:21.119 -->
00:22:23.680We've got a lot of people from California and the West Coast moving here.
00:22:23.839 -->
00:22:24.319Coming, yeah.
00:22:24.480 -->
00:22:26.400So it's actually getting better and better and better.
00:22:26.799 -->
00:22:30.559But um, but back in those days, it was terrible, like in my opinion.
00:22:30.640 -->
00:22:34.240Because I I I like had really good food in like Portland.
00:22:34.880 -->
00:22:35.039Sure.
00:22:35.359 -->
00:22:36.400So you had to experience that.
00:22:36.720 -->
00:22:39.759Yeah, and it's like this this really needs a good, a good burger place.
00:22:40.000 -->
00:22:43.039Like it's a college town and no good burger place.
00:22:43.200 -->
00:22:43.359Yeah.
00:22:43.519 -->
00:22:51.680So I decided to open up a burger uh restaurant and um hired the chef from the country club, the Logan Country Club.
00:22:51.839 -->
00:22:54.880Okay, he he was a really good, I mean, the food there was really good.
00:22:54.960 -->
00:22:57.920And I'm like, hey, would you come and work at my place?
00:22:58.000 -->
00:22:59.680And he's like, Yeah, let's do it.
00:22:59.759 -->
00:23:02.079So so um, yeah, so I hired him.
00:23:02.240 -->
00:23:11.519We got a great menu together, had some great burgers, and uh I realized how hard the burger like like well, the restaurant business really is way harder than that.
00:23:11.599 -->
00:23:13.359So you did, I mean we had no prior experience.
00:23:13.680 -->
00:23:14.160No prior experience.
00:23:14.400 -->
00:23:17.119So it's just like, hey, I I think a burger place would do good.
00:23:17.279 -->
00:23:18.160Yeah, let's do it.
00:23:18.480 -->
00:23:19.680Yeah, just because we need it.
00:23:20.000 -->
00:23:20.559Okay, okay.
00:23:20.640 -->
00:23:22.160Yeah, so it's just you saw the need.
00:23:22.319 -->
00:23:23.680Yeah, I just identified the.
00:23:24.000 -->
00:23:28.960I'm like, okay, I can I can put together a group that can actually make some good burgers, I know.
00:23:29.200 -->
00:23:29.440Okay.
00:23:29.599 -->
00:23:34.240And and we did, but it was the hardest business I've ever done in my life.
00:23:34.480 -->
00:23:39.680And I'm like, I uh if I could sell this, I would because it is crazy.
00:23:39.759 -->
00:23:41.680I why was it why was it so hard?
00:23:42.000 -->
00:23:45.680Because there's so many things to do that you have to be you have to keep track of.
00:23:45.839 -->
00:23:50.319And like you and and like if you're not really focused on price.
00:23:50.640 -->
00:23:50.880Okay.
00:23:51.039 -->
00:23:56.240I mean, so like let's say you're paying an extra five cents a pound for for beef, ground beef.
00:23:56.559 -->
00:24:03.759It adds some well, you all the burgers you sell, but then you have to time that out by all or multiply that by all the items on the burger.
00:24:04.000 -->
00:24:16.799So it i if you're willing to pay an extra five cents a pound for burger or for beef, you're probably willing to spend an extra, you know, five cents a crate for you know uh uh for lettuce and for tomatoes and that makes sense.
00:24:16.960 -->
00:24:22.160You know, for and and you just start and then buns and you start adding it all up, and there's your margin.
00:24:22.240 -->
00:24:23.119Like, I mean you you can't.
00:24:23.200 -->
00:24:24.400It reads it up really quickly.
00:24:24.799 -->
00:24:25.279It really does.
00:24:25.440 -->
00:24:30.400So so you just have to be really cognizant of everything, you've got to be really on top of everything.
00:24:30.559 -->
00:24:30.880Yeah.
00:24:31.119 -->
00:24:35.599And um, and and and to me, that was that was very difficult.
00:24:35.920 -->
00:24:37.920And yeah, like I never wanted this again.
00:24:38.079 -->
00:24:46.240So I I actually had people come to buy the restaurant that that wanted to, we were in a I picked a great location, the best location in all of Logan.
00:24:46.319 -->
00:24:50.480It was right on the corner of Maine and Forth North, which is takes you right to the university.
00:24:50.640 -->
00:24:52.400Anyway, so it was like the perfect location.
00:24:52.559 -->
00:24:52.799Yeah.
00:24:52.960 -->
00:24:56.000And I had the landlord, my landlord, who and I became pretty good friends.
00:24:56.240 -->
00:25:00.160He's like, hey, I know you're you know, you know, you you kind of won out.
00:25:00.240 -->
00:25:01.039I mean you want to sell.
00:25:01.200 -->
00:25:01.359Yeah.
00:25:01.599 -->
00:25:12.559But um there's there's a Chinese restaurant uh owner that from Salt Lake that wants to buy that wants to buy your place from the you know, in in your equipment and stuff that you have.
00:25:12.799 -->
00:25:15.599And then um it's really for the location.
00:25:16.240 -->
00:25:22.960And and and so I met the guy, and it was a Chinese guy with like old clothes, like holes in his shirt.
00:25:23.119 -->
00:25:31.599And I mean, I'm like, he can't afford like I'm I've I learned not to judge people that's from this experience because I'm like, he can't afford this.
00:25:31.759 -->
00:25:37.920So so um I I just kind of dismissed him and I never really, you know, I I never really pursued it with him.
00:25:38.160 -->
00:25:44.400And then my landlord came back to me uh like a week or two later and said, Hey, you know the guy that you didn't want to talk to?
00:25:44.640 -->
00:25:53.279You know, he's gone another direction now, but he he's like multimillionaire, has has you know Chinese restaurants in in yeah, Salt Lake and different places.
00:25:53.519 -->
00:25:54.240Isn't that interesting?
00:25:54.640 -->
00:25:58.640And um, and he he would have paid whatever I'm like he really wanted the space.
00:25:58.799 -->
00:26:00.400I'm like, oh, I had no idea.
00:26:00.559 -->
00:26:12.559So then another guy came, okay, he was also Chinese, yeah, wanted to do a Chinese restaurant uh and uh uh called Mandarin Garden, and it's still there to this day in that location.
00:26:12.799 -->
00:26:13.759In that location, after all of the time.
00:26:13.839 -->
00:26:14.480Oh gosh, okay.
00:26:14.640 -->
00:26:22.640Anyway, so I I met with him and um I told him, you know, a much lower price because I told this guy much higher price.
00:26:22.720 -->
00:26:24.720Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, he's not real.
00:26:24.880 -->
00:26:28.240And so he he just tried to get a hold of me and I just never responded.
00:26:28.319 -->
00:26:31.759And this time I told this guy a lower price, and he said, done.
00:26:31.920 -->
00:26:33.920And then we close and he, you know, that was it.
00:26:34.400 -->
00:26:35.680And I'm like, yeah, I need to do it.
00:26:35.839 -->
00:26:36.640Probably could have got more.
00:26:36.880 -->
00:26:39.519I need to not don't judge by appearances, yeah.
00:26:40.480 -->
00:26:41.920You probably probably could have got more.
00:26:42.079 -->
00:26:42.240Yeah.
00:26:42.480 -->
00:26:45.039So then I'm like, hey, I will never do another restaurant.
00:26:45.119 -->
00:26:47.200That's the worst business, the hardest business.
00:26:47.359 -->
00:26:49.200And I had no time to go to school anymore.
00:26:49.359 -->
00:26:52.079So I I had like So you hadn't graduated or hadn't?
00:26:52.400 -->
00:26:52.880I hadn't graduated.
00:26:52.960 -->
00:26:56.319I still haven't graduated because I as you said you're right.
00:26:58.240 -->
00:27:03.759Because I I uh I had no time to go to school because I had to have so much stuff going on.
00:27:04.079 -->
00:27:05.599You're you're basically married to it.
00:27:05.680 -->
00:27:07.519I mean, I I I just couldn't get away.
00:27:07.599 -->
00:27:08.000I mean it.
00:27:08.079 -->
00:27:09.359There's so many things you have to do.
00:27:09.599 -->
00:27:15.279Now, the only business that's harder than that by far is East versus West arm wrestling.
00:27:15.599 -->
00:27:17.119That is way harder.
00:27:17.279 -->
00:27:19.519So anyway, I can I can understand.
00:27:20.000 -->
00:27:22.559Yeah, so you know you know you've done it.
00:27:22.960 -->
00:27:25.519So anyway, but at that time I thought this is like the hardest thing.
00:27:25.599 -->
00:27:26.640I never want to do this again.
00:27:27.039 -->
00:27:29.519So you but you're still you still have the video.
00:27:30.160 -->
00:27:30.880I still have the video.
00:27:31.119 -->
00:27:35.519And so the restaurant now is like, hey, that was a good, and you got out of that.
00:27:35.759 -->
00:27:40.160I got out of that thinking never want to get back into that business ever again.
00:27:40.319 -->
00:27:40.400Okay.
00:27:40.640 -->
00:27:41.599I'll just stay with the video.
00:27:41.680 -->
00:27:50.480So I I stayed with the video for like 18 years and then ended up selling that and then got into other stuff and um um other businesses.
00:27:50.640 -->
00:27:59.599And and I thought, you know what, my video business in Salt Lake, I I want to move it to a new area and and build a building, you know, in where where it's expanding.
00:27:59.759 -->
00:28:02.240So everything was expanding south in Salt Lake.
00:28:02.480 -->
00:28:12.640And so I'll I'll come clear out to the south end of the valley and I'll buy some property and I'll build a building and I'll I'll have extra property, so it's kind of like, you know, kind of an investment, I guess.
00:28:13.039 -->
00:28:13.519Makes sense to that.
00:28:13.839 -->
00:28:14.160Makes sense.
00:28:14.400 -->
00:28:20.640And so I I you know, I was like 32 or so years old, and I but the business was going really well without me.
00:28:20.720 -->
00:28:24.000Like I had better managers than I I mean, like they they managed to be.
00:28:25.359 -->
00:28:33.519They they were really good, and and and so I um, you know, what one of them was my my little brother who who managed one of the businesses.
00:28:33.759 -->
00:28:39.680It was video duplication and CD replication, and then the film transfer piece was another building.
00:28:39.759 -->
00:28:42.640And anyway, so I said I'm gonna bring this all together in one building.
00:28:42.799 -->
00:28:48.880And so I didn't have to go to work any um I know really because I had you know those they were doing a better job than I could probably do.
00:28:49.039 -->
00:28:56.559So I would just go to the county recorder's office office every morning and I would go through all the landowners in um South End of the Valley.
00:28:56.799 -->
00:29:00.240Interesting and I would cold call them and ask them, hey, do you want to sell your property?
00:29:00.400 -->
00:29:05.839Yeah, and um hardly anybody did, but I found enough of them that did want to sell their property.
00:29:06.000 -->
00:29:13.839I put it under contract and I and I would just uh you know try to try to you know close the deal, but it was all through bank financing.
00:29:13.920 -->
00:29:16.000I didn't know any business people at the time.
00:29:16.079 -->
00:29:19.680I was just so focused on my own business, didn't even own any stocks.
00:29:19.759 -->
00:29:21.920I it was just everything went into just my own business.
00:29:22.559 -->
00:29:23.200Sure, sure.
00:29:23.519 -->
00:29:28.000So just had that real limited scope, you know, not really a network of any kind.
00:29:28.400 -->
00:29:29.119That's interesting.
00:29:29.599 -->
00:29:37.839And so I found this property, you know, it was just 10 acres right off the I-15 freeway on the south end of the valley, it was just fields at the time.
00:29:38.000 -->
00:29:42.960Okay, and um so I I ended up uh you know getting it under contract.
00:29:43.279 -->
00:29:50.240Uh one of the guys that I contacted that had like 300 acres along the freeway, you know, we we became friends.
00:29:50.400 -->
00:29:50.559Okay.
00:29:50.720 -->
00:29:54.640So just from cold calling, he said, Yeah, I don't want to sell any of my property, but I'll help you find some.
00:29:54.880 -->
00:29:55.119Okay.
00:29:55.279 -->
00:29:56.240And so I'm like, great.
00:29:56.400 -->
00:30:06.079So he said, Yeah, there's some property just above just above up the up the hill from me, um, that's right on the you know the main street, and um, you know, it's it's it's for sale.
00:30:06.319 -->
00:30:06.559Okay.
00:30:06.799 -->
00:30:08.720So um it's for sale by owner.
00:30:08.880 -->
00:30:16.240And I and he I said, Well, I can't really afford that much because I've got to build a building still, I've got to put the road in.
00:30:16.480 -->
00:30:18.400So and he goes, Oh no, no, you you you can do it.
00:30:18.559 -->
00:30:21.039And I said, Um the whole 10 acres?
00:30:21.119 -->
00:30:25.359He goes, Yeah, you you he said, buy the whole 10 acres, not just an acre or two.
00:30:25.519 -->
00:30:26.720Yeah, buy it all.
00:30:26.960 -->
00:30:28.880And um I'm like, Well, I can't.
00:30:28.960 -->
00:30:29.920I don't I can't afford it.
00:30:30.000 -->
00:30:42.960And he said, easy, just go to the you know, you know, write it up, tell the, you know, you know, tell them that you'll do a uh uh 20-year amortization, so really low payments, okay, with a three-year balloon payment.
00:30:43.279 -->
00:30:46.960And um, and I I'm like, I have no idea, you know, what you're talking about.
00:30:47.200 -->
00:30:48.079I said, Could you write it up?
00:30:48.240 -->
00:30:49.279And he's like, Yeah, I'll write it up.
00:30:49.359 -->
00:30:50.079So he wrote it up for me.
00:30:50.240 -->
00:30:50.319Okay.
00:30:50.559 -->
00:30:53.839And the and the guy, it's a farmer, he was just farming on the property.
00:30:54.000 -->
00:31:00.480He accepted the offer, and then and then like a few days later, somebody offered him, so I have a million dollars for the property.
00:31:00.640 -->
00:31:00.799Okay.
00:31:00.960 -->
00:31:12.319Somebody offered him two million dollars, and um, and and uh there's a clause in the contract that said that he could actually uh get out of it if I couldn't show a commitment letter from the bank within 10 days.
00:31:12.559 -->
00:31:15.680And I went to the bank and I said, Hey guys, we I gotta close on this.
00:31:15.759 -->
00:31:17.519I or I've got to have a commitment letter from you guys.
00:31:17.599 -->
00:31:25.519They said, well, in order to get a commitment letter, we have to be ready to close because I mean there's you you know, we can't like back out of it.
00:31:25.759 -->
00:31:33.119So we have to go through all the same steps, which means you've got to get an alta survey, you've got to get geotech, which is a soil sample from the project.
00:31:33.279 -->
00:31:37.680Oh my gosh, you've got to have an appraisal on which which all takes more than a month.
00:31:37.839 -->
00:31:42.000So there's no way you can close in ten days, and then we take time to underwrite as well.
00:31:42.160 -->
00:31:43.359And I said, Well, no, we have to.
00:31:43.440 -->
00:31:44.960I'm like, like I g I I have to try.
00:31:45.119 -->
00:31:45.440Yes.
00:31:45.680 -->
00:31:52.240So I just kept um you know, camped out at all these places, like the that you know, the under big pressure.
00:31:52.720 -->
00:31:54.720Oh, total pressure because I I've got to do this.
00:31:54.799 -->
00:31:54.880Yeah.
00:31:55.039 -->
00:31:59.039So I would like pray every day, like, you know, I I gotta I gotta have help on this, you know.
00:31:59.200 -->
00:32:01.440And and I just did everything I could.
00:32:01.599 -->
00:32:09.920And then um it had to be time and date stamped, uh, you know, July 20 or July 28th, 1998, by 5 p.m.
00:32:10.079 -->
00:32:16.720I remember the date because you put the so I had to close by that date, and it had to be date and time stamped.
00:32:16.880 -->
00:32:18.559And in those days it was fax machines, you know.
00:32:18.640 -->
00:32:23.200So I was waiting by my fax machine, and it came through, the commitment letter came through at five o'clock.
00:32:23.359 -->
00:32:26.559If it would have been 5.01, it would have gone to the guy that offered twice as much.
00:32:26.880 -->
00:32:28.319Oh my gosh, so it's the exact minute.
00:32:29.680 -->
00:32:50.960So I ended up getting that, and then my and then my my brother-in-law, who was my partner, my you know, uh from the film uh place and and the video production place, um, he was he started, so he graduated in construction management, got a job in California with the the biggest construction company, Hansel Phelps, and then ended up being like a consultant for big companies uh for construction.
00:32:51.279 -->
00:33:02.160And then he he he was consulting for Century Theaters, which was at that time was like a really big uh um you know movie house, like like a AMC, it's owned by AMC now.
00:33:02.400 -->
00:33:04.240But anyway, so it's a big theater company.
00:33:04.400 -->
00:33:09.920And so he was building theat theaters all over the country, and he said, Hey, I've got this property.
00:33:10.000 -->
00:33:16.799I know you're into real estate now, I've got this property for you know that came to me for century theaters, but it we can't use it.
00:33:16.880 -->
00:33:22.240Um and it's in Menlo Park, which is the most exclusive area in California.
00:33:22.319 -->
00:33:24.799It's like right, it's right next to San Francisco.
00:33:25.119 -->
00:33:34.319It's where all the high-tech, the big, big tech companies are from, you know, like you had Apple and you know, um uh Mitsubishi had their headquarters there as well.
00:33:34.640 -->
00:33:45.839Well, uh Mitsubishi had uh the EPA uh closed them down basically, or or just said, hey, you've got to move because you're on contaminated soil, is what they so they couldn't stay there.
00:33:46.319 -->
00:33:46.880They couldn't stay there.
00:33:47.039 -->
00:33:47.119Okay.
00:33:47.359 -->
00:33:53.680And so my brother-in-law called me and said, Hey, if you want this property, I mean we can't use it, but you might want to want to do it.
00:33:53.759 -->
00:33:56.319And I'm like, I looked at it, I'm like, this is a no-brainer.
00:33:56.480 -->
00:33:58.640It's like two cents on the dollar for this property.
00:33:58.799 -->
00:34:00.319All we gotta do is tear down the buildings.
00:34:00.400 -->
00:34:12.159So they had three uh um office and warehouse buildings for Mitsubishi, and and then haul away a bunch of dirt, like 800 dump truckloads full of dirt, and then haul in new dirt and then rebuild the buildings.
00:34:12.239 -->
00:34:13.760And now you got something that's huge.
00:34:14.000 -->
00:34:14.159Sure.
00:34:14.320 -->
00:34:14.480Right.
00:34:14.559 -->
00:34:36.559And so I I I'm like I told my brother-in-law, I said, Hey, you know, I'm gonna pay you a finder's fee for this, but you should be partners with me, because I'm I'm I've I've already gone to my friend who found the 10 acres for me, who has the 300 acres and also office buildings, and he'll put up his financials, yeah, and I'll put up, you know, mine, which is not nearly as much.
00:34:36.800 -->
00:34:44.880If you want to do the same thing and then come in with you know some money, and he goes, I don't have much except for I've got a lot of equity in my house in San Francisco.
00:34:45.280 -->
00:34:47.440And and I said, Well, come in with that.
00:34:47.760 -->
00:34:50.320And he talked to his wife, his wife said, Absolutely not.
00:34:50.400 -->
00:34:51.920We're not rich in our house.
00:34:52.159 -->
00:34:54.159And I said, You've got to do it anyway.
00:34:54.320 -->
00:34:55.440You just gotta like do it.
00:34:55.679 -->
00:34:56.480Just figure it out.
00:34:56.719 -->
00:35:01.360Just basically, you know, even if you have to like just sign her name, I mean, just do it.
00:35:01.440 -->
00:35:03.039Yeah, because she'll thank you later.
00:35:03.119 -->
00:35:03.280Yeah.
00:35:03.440 -->
00:35:04.880I mean, you you'll make millions on that.
00:35:04.960 -->
00:35:05.280Yeah.
00:35:05.519 -->
00:35:07.280So um, so he did.
00:35:07.440 -->
00:35:15.840And so um we we did the deal, and then and then a year and a half later, um, had everything you know rebuilt and and then sold.
00:35:15.920 -->
00:35:17.280It was really good timing too.
00:35:17.440 -->
00:35:17.679Yeah.
00:35:17.920 -->
00:35:23.599And um, so it it ended up being a really, really good, like a major league home run.
00:35:23.760 -->
00:35:24.320Yeah.
00:35:24.559 -->
00:35:38.079And then I said, hey, you know, what we ought to do now with this, with this money, and all three of us, so the so the guy with the 300 acres, me and and my brother-in-law, yeah, what we ought to do is do um loans for people doing like what we were doing.
00:35:38.159 -->
00:35:42.079So like rather than bring on equity partners, you you basically just do a loan.
00:35:42.159 -->
00:35:46.159You take the land as collateral, so you do like a 30% loan to value or really low loan to value.
00:35:46.320 -->
00:35:46.400Okay.
00:35:46.559 -->
00:35:50.719So you're in a first trusteed position, so you're you're protected no matter what.
00:35:50.960 -->
00:35:58.800And then um they they get to keep, you know, the developer gets to keep all the money basically, minus the fees for the and and the interest.
00:35:59.039 -->
00:36:10.639And at short term, all we're doing is giving the money to to um entitle the property, make it, you know, you know, take it from farmland, say, and take it into something much bigger or even like high density housing, whatever.
00:36:10.800 -->
00:36:16.400And then we can actually also help them, you know, to to get to bank financing.
00:36:16.559 -->
00:36:24.639So let's get in, get out, and you know, we'll we'll charge more because you know it we're saving them way more uh than this.
00:36:24.880 -->
00:36:45.679So we did it, and he brought in the uh my brother-in-law brought in the architect for all the century theaters, they did all of them, and then also the construction company did all the century theaters he was really good friends with, and they were part of our investment group, and also the guy that had the 300 acres, he had friends, and so we all kind of pooled our money together and we did these loans all over the all over the West, basically.
00:36:45.840 -->
00:36:54.000Yeah, and then I thought, man, this is so good if we scale this and make it like nationwide and really big, sure, and go to Wall Street, make this a massive play.
00:36:54.159 -->
00:36:54.320Yeah.
00:36:54.559 -->
00:36:59.760So so I went to Wall Street with and I'm really bad at talking to people.
00:36:59.840 -->
00:37:02.159I mean, like, like like I'm not like you, Brian.
00:37:02.400 -->
00:37:04.159So anyway, so you know that everybody knows that.
00:37:04.400 -->
00:37:07.199Well, I think you're all right because it sounds like you've made connections.
00:37:07.760 -->
00:37:10.159I I just had to find people that were good at it, right?
00:37:10.480 -->
00:37:18.159So so um, so what one of the guys that that worked uh you know at the company, he was really good at this.
00:37:18.239 -->
00:37:22.079I said, Hey, go with me to Wall Street, and we'll basically do a roadshow.
00:37:22.320 -->
00:37:26.079We'll hit all the big banks, HSBC, US Bank, all of them.
00:37:26.320 -->
00:37:28.400And then also all the big hedge funds, you know.
00:37:28.480 -->
00:37:32.719So we had Golden Tree, Cerberus, I mean, like uh all of the big hedge funds.
00:37:32.800 -->
00:37:33.519We hit them all.
00:37:33.679 -->
00:37:34.880They all loved the idea.
00:37:35.119 -->
00:37:37.119And then so nobody said no.
00:37:37.280 -->
00:37:43.199Yeah, and then somehow Cargill heard about us, they're the largest privately held company in the world, and they're out of Minataka, Minnesota.
00:37:43.360 -->
00:37:47.920They heard about us and they called me and said, Hey, we'd like to talk to you.
00:37:48.320 -->
00:37:53.039They flew in to Salt Lake, and within two weeks we had a deal done, and I said, We we want a partner.
00:37:53.119 -->
00:37:57.280We don't we don't want to so we'll be you know I I propose we're 50-50 partners.
00:37:57.440 -->
00:37:57.840Yep.
00:37:58.079 -->
00:38:07.440You come in with 95% of the money, we'll come with five percent with our little group, and um and then you know, we'll you you make the interest on the money that you bring in.
00:38:07.679 -->
00:38:19.679Okay, but it's basically the money's made off of uh off of um origination fees because you can charge like a 10% origination fee because you're saving the equity for for these guys.
00:38:20.000 -->
00:38:22.880So so it's it's a big play in short-term loans basically.
00:38:23.280 -->
00:38:27.440We're gonna help you go through and get get entitled and get to bank finances, or they'll take that.
00:38:28.639 -->
00:38:34.960So and so um they were throwing like you know lots of money and and and this started in 2005.
00:38:35.119 -->
00:38:41.199By 2007, the market was so crazy, it kept the real estate market kept going just up and up and up.
00:38:41.440 -->
00:38:42.719It's unsustainable, in my opinion.
00:38:43.039 -->
00:38:43.280Yeah, yeah.
00:38:43.599 -->
00:38:46.320And so I went back to Cargill and said, guys, we can't do this anymore.
00:38:46.480 -->
00:38:48.159You know, like we have to stop.
00:38:48.800 -->
00:38:51.199So you saw just because it was inflating the bunch.
00:38:51.519 -->
00:38:54.719It was just common sense, basically, because I didn't have any data to support that.
00:38:54.800 -->
00:38:57.840There was really wasn't any data that could actually support that fact.
00:38:58.079 -->
00:38:59.760And Cargill said, What are you talking about?
00:38:59.840 -->
00:39:01.440There's they're like, what data are you looking at?
00:39:01.599 -->
00:39:03.119I said, Well, I don't really have any data.
00:39:03.280 -->
00:39:04.719And they said, Yeah, we don't either.
00:39:04.880 -->
00:39:06.800Like, like we want to keep going, like we want to do this.
00:39:07.280 -->
00:39:08.400Yeah, because it's all going to be a great thing.
00:39:08.480 -->
00:39:08.719Yeah, yeah.
00:39:08.880 -->
00:39:09.840Yeah, it's going great.
00:39:10.079 -->
00:39:12.480And so I said, I'm sorry, I can't.
00:39:12.719 -->
00:39:18.480So they were So this was just kind of a you were looking at it and saying, I have this feeling that this is not sustainable.
00:39:18.880 -->
00:39:19.199Yeah.
00:39:19.679 -->
00:39:20.480That's crazy.
00:39:20.719 -->
00:39:20.800Yeah.
00:39:21.280 -->
00:39:29.599I mean, because it with it going well, especially, right, you'd like to see have the foresight of what you know was coming potentially is not, you know.
00:39:30.079 -->
00:39:39.039I mean, I mean, if you just look at just common sense wise, the you know, the market can't continue at the at the I mean it it it's gotta and it's going so sky high.
00:39:39.199 -->
00:39:45.679Yeah, you know, it it's it's gonna have to have a correction, which means we would be in really big trouble.
00:39:46.000 -->
00:39:46.159Sure.
00:39:46.559 -->
00:39:49.280So I um so they were very angry.
00:39:49.519 -->
00:39:50.559Like very upset.
00:39:50.880 -->
00:39:55.679They're like, yeah, guys, we're we're we got so much ahead of us, and and it just keeps booming.
00:39:55.920 -->
00:39:58.719Anyway, so um so I s we we'd stopped.
00:39:58.880 -->
00:40:03.360Okay and and and then in 2008 the crash happened.
00:40:03.440 -->
00:40:05.280Yeah, it was October of 2008.
00:40:05.440 -->
00:40:07.760Um, and they flew out to Utah.
00:40:07.840 -->
00:40:09.519They said, We are so happy.
00:40:09.679 -->
00:40:11.599You I bet they were thankful.
00:40:11.760 -->
00:40:15.119Yeah, so how thankful would you be to see that?
00:40:15.199 -->
00:40:15.920That's incredible.
00:40:16.000 -->
00:40:16.159Yeah.
00:40:16.480 -->
00:40:27.840So it was it was like, you know, um, again, you know, nothing, you know, I can point to, you know, I mean, I had no other than just a gut feeling and common sense.
00:40:28.079 -->
00:40:32.800But but anyway, so they were super happy and and now like what are we gonna do?
00:40:32.960 -->
00:40:41.840You know, we've got money from the all the loans and stuff, yeah, but um, we don't want to go into real estate because there's no there there's no bank financing at the time.
00:40:41.920 -->
00:40:42.880I mean, there's just every everything.
00:40:43.119 -->
00:40:44.960Yeah, everything stopped, yeah.
00:40:45.599 -->
00:40:48.239It was basically a meltdown in the economy in general, right?
00:40:48.400 -->
00:40:52.880Back in those days in 2008 or 2000, you know, eight is when it started.
00:40:53.039 -->
00:41:01.280And so I'm like, hey, I I know the owner of Ruth's Chris here in in Salt Lake, and they're struggling big time because nobody has the money to do it.
00:41:01.679 -->
00:41:02.880Like the higher end, yeah.
00:41:03.039 -->
00:41:06.239Yeah, so so really high-end restaurants, very bad.
00:41:06.320 -->
00:41:07.679They were in really bad shape.
00:41:07.920 -->
00:41:14.000So I had a deal uh with him to buy the restaurant for$300,000 and all the equipment in it.
00:41:14.079 -->
00:41:16.400Um, and and I knew it was only a matter of time.
00:41:16.480 -->
00:41:18.800It's like, you know, it's gonna turn around.
00:41:18.880 -->
00:41:20.639I mean, we'll probably lose money for a little bit.
00:41:21.039 -->
00:41:22.320And then at some point it'll correct.
00:41:22.639 -->
00:41:25.119It'll it'll and and and it's such a great deal.
00:41:25.360 -->
00:41:44.000Um but anyway, so I I I was gonna do that deal, and a friend of mine who just bought the the rights for all the five guys burgers and fries in Utah, Idaho, and part of California, he he called me up and said, Hey, uh I've got the five guys in uh Utah, as you know, and we're our first store.
00:41:44.400 -->
00:41:46.159We want to invite you out to the grand opening.
00:41:46.239 -->
00:41:46.400Yeah.
00:41:46.559 -->
00:41:47.119I'm like, sure.
00:41:47.280 -->
00:41:50.960So I I came out, took one bite of the five guys burger.
00:41:51.119 -->
00:41:53.599I'm like, hey, forget about Rus Chris.
00:41:53.920 -->
00:41:54.719I want to do this.
00:41:54.800 -->
00:41:55.199Like this.
00:41:55.519 -->
00:41:56.880Was that the first bite you ever had?
00:41:57.519 -->
00:41:58.079The first bite?
00:41:58.559 -->
00:42:00.400I mean, the first time you had tasted it.
00:42:00.800 -->
00:42:01.199The first time.
00:42:01.280 -->
00:42:03.039I had never tried a five guys before.
00:42:03.280 -->
00:42:05.519So you're talking about the deal, and then you go have the burger.
00:42:05.840 -->
00:42:08.719And then I'm like, hey, I hey, how do I do something like this?
00:42:08.960 -->
00:42:10.400I mean, how do I get involved with you guys?
00:42:10.480 -->
00:42:11.039You know, yeah.
00:42:11.360 -->
00:42:13.599Because I needed to find something to do with it.
00:42:14.320 -->
00:42:14.719Incredible.
00:42:14.880 -->
00:42:15.039Yeah.
00:42:15.280 -->
00:42:20.239And and so they said, yeah, we've got Canada, Western Canada tied up right now.
00:42:20.400 -->
00:42:22.559If you want to partner with us, we'll partner.
00:42:22.960 -->
00:42:24.559And I'm like, great, I'm in.
00:42:24.719 -->
00:42:25.360Like, this is great.
00:42:25.440 -->
00:42:28.079I I knew the guys, they were they were good guys and creators.
00:42:28.480 -->
00:42:30.400And so I I'm like, great.
00:42:30.559 -->
00:42:37.039So we started going in Canada, and before we opened our first store, it's in Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada.
00:42:37.199 -->
00:42:39.199Uh, they were like, hey, we're out.
00:42:39.280 -->
00:42:41.920I we like Canada is way harder.
00:42:42.000 -->
00:42:43.039It's a socialist country.
00:42:43.199 -->
00:42:45.119Yes, and it's very difficult.
00:42:45.280 -->
00:42:51.679Like people in in the US, and me included, and and my my partners, we all thought it's the same.
00:42:51.760 -->
00:42:53.039Like Canada is the same as the US.
00:42:53.360 -->
00:42:53.840You would think, yeah.
00:42:54.079 -->
00:42:55.679You would think, yeah, but it's really not.
00:42:55.840 -->
00:43:00.480It's I mean, I could explain more, but it's like, trust me, completely different.
00:43:00.639 -->
00:43:00.800Yeah.
00:43:00.960 -->
00:43:03.920And and it's very bureaucratic, it's very socialistic.
00:43:04.400 -->
00:43:10.559Um, and so which is not a bad thing for business, it's just that it changes everything, right?
00:43:10.800 -->
00:43:12.000It's not like you're used to.
00:43:12.320 -->
00:43:12.559Sure.
00:43:12.800 -->
00:43:15.920So my partner said, Hey, we can will you just buy us out?
00:43:16.159 -->
00:43:17.119I'm like, sure.
00:43:17.280 -->
00:43:18.719So I I I bought them out.
00:43:18.880 -->
00:43:25.199I knew it was gonna take longer to turn a profit, you know, and it's we went seven years uh in losses.
00:43:25.440 -->
00:43:26.000Oh, wow.
00:43:26.400 -->
00:43:40.559But knowing that it's going to turn at a certain point, it's gonna scale, it's gonna be worth it because you gotta hire, like you gotta hire your own in-house attorney because they require attorneys in certain provinces to do everything for you.
00:43:40.719 -->
00:43:44.320Like you can't fill out a business license without having an attorney do it.
00:43:44.400 -->
00:43:47.119So you gotta So you don't you have to have one on staff, basically.
00:43:47.519 -->
00:43:52.639You have to have one on staff, you have to or you should, because you're gonna pay a lot, especially if you're gonna scale and go big, right?
00:43:52.800 -->
00:43:54.079You have a lot of stores.
00:43:54.559 -->
00:43:59.679So so then I'm I mean, then the employment laws are crazy, like 10 times more employment.
00:44:00.239 -->
00:44:12.639Laws in the United States, which means that the government is actually there they will go after you big time if you violate employment laws.
00:44:12.880 -->
00:44:15.039And you don't know because there's so many of them.
00:44:15.840 -->
00:44:21.199So you just trying to even keep that straight of if you're following, even if you're not intentionally not.
00:44:21.519 -->
00:44:21.679Yeah.
00:44:21.920 -->
00:44:23.440It just it could come back.
00:44:23.599 -->
00:44:30.000Trevor Burrus So it so it's kind of you know designed around the in socialism, it's kind of like this.
00:44:30.159 -->
00:44:34.239It's designed around the or supposedly around the little guys.
00:44:34.400 -->
00:44:35.840It's actually it's actually the opposite.
00:44:36.000 -->
00:44:40.239It's actually this socialism is designed for the big guys, not the people don't understand.
00:44:40.639 -->
00:44:45.119But people, but but in order to have the illusion of it, so they you know you've got to support the little guys.
00:44:45.280 -->
00:44:54.480So anybody who sues a company like like us, for example, in Canada, the employees would sue over a labor violation or whatever.
00:44:54.639 -->
00:45:06.880And because unless we had somebody, some like a really great people on on staff or attorneys that could make sure that we don't violate any of those things, you know, we get sued.
00:45:07.199 -->
00:45:08.800The employee doesn't pay anything for it.
00:45:08.880 -->
00:45:13.599They go to the government, the government sues us and then gives all the money to the employee.
00:45:13.760 -->
00:45:16.880So the employee is incentivized to sue the employer, right?
00:45:16.960 -->
00:45:18.000So Which is horrible.
00:45:18.239 -->
00:45:35.599But but but it's okay in because you know it it's a barrier to it's a huge barrier to entry and for a big for a big business in Canada or even a small business, because you're you're putting yourself at risk unless you hire um really good employment, like you know, HR people.
00:45:36.239 -->
00:45:43.519I had to hire a chief of human race, C H R O, uh, right out the gate with one story, like you can't justify all these expenses.
00:45:44.000 -->
00:45:44.239Sure.
00:45:44.480 -->
00:45:47.679But but over time, yeah, it it's really worth it.
00:45:48.000 -->
00:45:48.159Okay.
00:45:48.400 -->
00:45:48.719But okay.
00:45:48.880 -->
00:45:50.400So But it's a longer play.
00:45:50.639 -->
00:45:51.199It's a longer play.
00:45:51.760 -->
00:45:55.280It's a longer play, and um and and so I'm really glad we did it.
00:45:55.440 -->
00:45:55.920Yeah.
00:45:56.159 -->
00:45:59.360And Canada has really, really been amazing for us.
00:45:59.519 -->
00:46:07.119And at first the employees were like really har a lot harder than the US because we would try to find good management.
00:46:07.360 -->
00:46:07.679Sure.
00:46:07.920 -->
00:46:15.679And and um so we'd say, hey, we're gonna offer you similar to what you're getting now in salary, but you can make double on a bonus.
00:46:16.000 -->
00:46:16.239Okay.
00:46:16.480 -->
00:46:17.840But so you're incentivized.
00:46:18.079 -->
00:46:18.719You're incentivized.
00:46:19.199 -->
00:46:27.519But we we I didn't realize that that's actually you know a disincentive because how they viewed it was, oh, you want me to work harder.
00:46:27.679 -->
00:46:29.440They don't want to they didn't want to work harder.
00:46:29.599 -->
00:46:32.159They just want to like, I mean it's it's kind of work-life balance.
00:46:32.239 -->
00:46:34.320It's the same thing in the on the West Coast.
00:46:34.400 -->
00:46:34.480Okay.
00:46:34.800 -->
00:46:39.119And other parts of the c of the country now are are kind of the same way or actually worse.
00:46:39.360 -->
00:46:41.440California is probably worse than Canada.
00:46:41.760 -->
00:46:45.760But anyway, but uh so I'm like, okay, this is gonna be tough.
00:46:45.920 -->
00:46:46.159Yes.
00:46:46.400 -->
00:46:48.239Because you know, we can't incentivize people.
00:46:48.320 -->
00:46:54.480I mean, I mean, um, and so it I I had to say, okay, we're gonna have to then take a little longer.
00:46:54.639 -->
00:47:02.239It's gonna have to be grassroots, we're gonna have to train people, like, hey, if you work harder, and you know, it's gonna be better for you.
00:47:02.400 -->
00:47:05.679I mean, when and and we're but we're gonna teach you how.
00:47:05.840 -->
00:47:16.880So we had to s invest in employee development and management development and get them to see how much better they could have their life could be if they just focused a little bit differently.
00:47:17.360 -->
00:47:18.400Getting them to buy into that.
00:47:18.800 -->
00:47:20.239So you can't change a culture.
00:47:20.480 -->
00:47:34.480I mean, so like um, I mean, we we we we could go to Eastern Europe, for example, yeah, and in arm wrestling or whatever, yeah, and say, hey, um guys, you know, let's start really focusing on marketing yourself.
00:47:34.960 -->
00:47:36.559It's not really part of their culture.
00:47:36.719 -->
00:47:36.880Sure.
00:47:37.199 -->
00:47:39.119You can't really change that overnight.
00:47:39.280 -->
00:47:39.360Yeah.
00:47:39.760 -->
00:47:42.239Just like you can't change, you know, socialism overnight.
00:47:42.480 -->
00:47:42.719Totally.
00:47:43.039 -->
00:47:51.679Most people are gonna want to just check out at five o'clock or whatever their shifts over and not think again about business and not and not and really want to kind of do the minimum.
00:47:51.840 -->
00:47:55.199That's kind of the the way they're that cult the cultures are trained, right?
00:47:55.360 -->
00:47:55.679Sure.
00:47:55.840 -->
00:47:58.159In in like a socialist country, for example.
00:47:58.400 -->
00:48:10.320Um, so you can't change a culture, whether you're in Eastern Europe or whether you're in Canada or in or in wherever, you know, what other socialist country, but you can create a subculture.
00:48:10.559 -->
00:48:14.079And and so where we're attracting people that want something better.
00:48:14.320 -->
00:48:14.559Totally.
00:48:14.880 -->
00:48:28.880You know, we want excellence, and we want people that you know that enjoy providing excellent service, excellent product, you know, going the extra mile, and you're gonna get rewarded for it, and you're actually gonna enjoy your job more.
00:48:29.119 -->
00:48:29.360Sure.
00:48:29.519 -->
00:48:31.360You know, so it it it's a process.
00:48:31.519 -->
00:48:31.760Yeah.
00:48:32.000 -->
00:48:38.239So now our employees in Canada are much better than any of the employees that we have in the United States.
00:48:38.480 -->
00:48:39.199Isn't that interesting?
00:48:40.000 -->
00:48:41.760It's like they are so good.
00:48:41.840 -->
00:48:50.159Yeah if we could bring all of our Canadian uh management and employees to the US, it it it would blow up.
00:48:50.320 -->
00:48:53.039I mean, but it took it took a long time.
00:48:53.199 -->
00:48:53.440Yeah.
00:48:53.599 -->
00:48:55.519It it took a long, long time to get there.
00:48:55.840 -->
00:48:56.800Totally worth it though.
00:48:56.960 -->
00:48:57.280Yeah.
00:48:57.519 -->
00:49:08.480I mean, it's fascinating to hear it, you know, and you don't really think of you don't really think of these things, but you know, it again, if you're here's the bare minimum, that's what I'm gonna do.
00:49:08.639 -->
00:49:14.239And then getting the employees bought in and trained to say, hey, look, this can be a lot better.
00:49:14.400 -->
00:49:16.000Why don't we do a little bit more?
00:49:16.159 -->
00:49:20.559Why don't we take take that extra step, go the extra mile, you know, like that type of thing.
00:49:20.639 -->
00:49:23.039Um, so it's but you said seven years.
00:49:23.119 -->
00:49:26.559It was seven years of loss negative, less or a loss.
00:49:26.719 -->
00:49:26.960Yep.
00:49:27.119 -->
00:49:30.079And then from there, then it's only gone up, it sounds like.
00:49:30.320 -->
00:49:35.599Yeah, so so it has, but uh we've never taken money out of the business.
00:49:35.760 -->
00:49:47.039So the whole thing has been like just you know, so now we're the largest five guys franchisee in the world because we just keep putting the money back in to more stores, more development, more.
00:49:47.519 -->
00:49:49.360And so how many do you how many do you have now?
00:49:49.760 -->
00:49:55.679So there's like 94 stores total, but that includes but that's mostly five guys, but also Blaze Pizza.
00:49:55.840 -->
00:49:55.920Okay.
00:49:56.239 -->
00:50:08.880And then um Dexter and I just got the rights for Cup Bop, which is a Korean barbecue in a bowl, which was his he's really best friends with the owners or with the the the founder and um owners of that company.
00:50:09.119 -->
00:50:09.519That's awesome.
00:50:09.760 -->
00:50:12.079And they were on Shark Tank and it was a feeding frenzy.
00:50:12.239 -->
00:50:22.239Everybody wanted them, and Mark Cuban ended up getting it, but then the deal it never got inked because um you know Mark Cuban wanted a pathway to control.
00:50:22.400 -->
00:50:22.480Okay.
00:50:22.880 -->
00:50:23.440They didn't want that.
00:50:23.599 -->
00:50:25.119So they ended up not doing the deal.
00:50:25.199 -->
00:50:29.599They didn't need it because the marketing that came from Shark Tank just was so huge.
00:50:30.079 -->
00:50:31.519I mean, now it's just going crazy.
00:50:31.599 -->
00:50:33.039So now they're all over the all over the world.
00:50:33.360 -->
00:50:33.679That's great.
00:50:34.159 -->
00:50:36.000We have the rights for Canada.
00:50:36.320 -->
00:50:36.559Okay.
00:50:37.039 -->
00:50:44.400Um, so Dexter and I are are are moving that over to our operations team, which are the best operation team, I think, in the world.
00:50:44.719 -->
00:50:45.199That's one you've got to do.
00:50:45.760 -->
00:50:47.199You've developed it.
00:50:47.440 -->
00:50:48.079So they'll be yeah.
00:50:48.159 -->
00:50:48.320Uh-huh.
00:50:48.480 -->
00:50:50.079So they'll be doing Cutbop now.
00:50:50.239 -->
00:50:51.760But we don't we don't have the time.
00:50:51.920 -->
00:50:54.480Dexter and I don't have the time to do any of this stuff.
00:50:54.639 -->
00:50:58.079It's gotta be those, you know, the guys that are uh that are focused on.
00:50:58.400 -->
00:51:03.119I mean, I I've turned everything over um before doing E F East versus West.
00:51:03.360 -->
00:51:10.639So my my business partner, my brother-in-law, yeah, is the CEO now of the five guys in Blaze, and now he'll be helping with the cut bop.
00:51:10.880 -->
00:51:13.360And so he's doing I mean that's incredible though.
00:51:13.440 -->
00:51:20.960Yeah, it's like to just to develop that type of culture and you know, I mean, the the growth that that has come from that is astounding.
00:51:21.039 -->
00:51:21.920It's awesome, man.
00:51:22.239 -->
00:51:23.280No, I'm super happy.
00:51:23.360 -->
00:51:30.400It's uh I mean, and then and then the biggest the biggest thing of all, yeah, I think is East versus West for me.
00:51:30.480 -->
00:51:39.119And and and Dexter feels the same way, even though he has other businesses and you know, the number one Japanese restaurant in Utah, Miyazaki, which we've got to be too too.
00:51:39.280 -->
00:51:39.599Yeah, yeah.
00:51:40.239 -->
00:51:40.639I'm excited.
00:51:40.719 -->
00:51:41.679I am excited about that.
00:51:41.760 -->
00:51:42.639Yeah, me too.
00:51:42.719 -->
00:51:46.880I'm always excited because it's got it's got the best food, best Japanese, best steak.
00:51:47.039 -->
00:51:48.639So he won best steakhouse now.
00:51:49.199 -->
00:51:49.519Love steaks.
00:51:49.840 -->
00:51:53.360I think second time in a row, like multiple, many times for Japanese.
00:51:53.519 -->
00:52:02.400But anyway, so it it you know, so he's actually being pulled, you know, like you know, I mean, his general manager's like, hey, why don't you spend more time with this?
00:52:02.480 -->
00:52:06.239But you can't because East versus West, nobody would believe this except for you.
00:52:06.400 -->
00:52:09.119You know how hard it is to run incredibly shows.
00:52:09.360 -->
00:52:14.559Yes, it and then it and then imagine if you have to change venue every six weeks somewhere around the world.
00:52:15.519 -->
00:52:21.440And now because Dexter opened up Asia to us, now we're gonna do uh now he's got China open for the first time.
00:52:21.679 -->
00:52:22.079Oh, yeah.
00:52:24.000 -->
00:52:28.800We're talking like you know, I mean I had no idea, and Dexter didn't either until he went there last year.
00:52:29.280 -->
00:52:29.920I can't even imagine.
00:52:30.320 -->
00:52:34.719A thousand people per club, and and not just in in one club, but in multiple clubs.
00:52:34.800 -->
00:52:37.840They've got a thousand arm wrestlers in one arm wrestling club.
00:52:38.079 -->
00:52:42.400And and they and they got arm wrestling tables in like in the elementary schools, middle and high school.
00:52:42.559 -->
00:52:44.079They're like big time into it.
00:52:44.239 -->
00:52:50.719They know they know our EVW athletes, they know you, they they know Devin, they know all of them, and they know EVW.
00:52:51.039 -->
00:53:06.559So anyway, so Dexter went with one of our master refs, Oleg's, who was your ref as well in uh Germany, and you know, he he he was greeted like with great respect and driven around in a in a mm like a mybach.
00:53:07.599 -->
00:53:08.480Yeah, incredible.
00:53:08.960 -->
00:53:19.920He said he's my I mean like there's like and and they're they're you know they they call him like I can't remember what the Chinese word Dexter would know, but for master, it's it's not Sen Tzu.
00:53:20.400 -->
00:53:20.880Chi Fu.
00:53:21.119 -->
00:53:21.679Chi Fu.
00:53:22.320 -->
00:53:33.599And uh and so everywhere he went in in in and he went all over China with Dexter, and he was training the refs and with with our rules and with our table standards and all that, so they can have standards, right?
00:53:33.679 -->
00:53:35.760So we can really work off of, yeah.
00:53:36.000 -->
00:53:43.119And so everywhere he went, it's like it's like qi fu, qi fu and uh highest respect, and and so it's gonna be a cool event.
00:53:43.199 -->
00:53:45.039I mean, so that's gonna happen on September twelfth.
00:53:45.119 -->
00:53:46.239It's almost a hundred percent now.
00:53:46.639 -->
00:53:48.480And where where at is where's that at in China?
00:53:48.719 -->
00:53:52.719Well dexter needs to tell us the name because I don't even know the name, and it's it's actually changing.
00:53:52.960 -->
00:53:56.480It was gonna be a tier two city, which is ten million or or less.
00:53:56.719 -->
00:54:09.920But now, because of the trip with with um Trump and with Elon Musk and uh and and Jensen Huang with NVIDIA and and a few others, now they're really welcoming uh you know the US in.
00:54:10.079 -->
00:54:10.159Okay.
00:54:10.400 -->
00:54:16.639So they're saying that it it it could change to a tier one city, which would be like hopefully like Shanghai would be awesome.
00:54:16.880 -->
00:54:18.400And so that would be really awesome.
00:54:18.719 -->
00:54:24.159So it and and it's it'll be like a massive production, like you know, better light show than we've ever done.
00:54:24.320 -->
00:54:25.599Oh, I think drones everywhere.
00:54:25.760 -->
00:54:28.000Yeah, you know how they can make the drones any shape you want.
00:54:28.079 -->
00:54:30.639Yeah, you can do it like in a in an arm, you know, or whatever.
00:54:31.360 -->
00:54:40.800Well, it's I I mean, just jumping into like East versus West, I feel like coming in, you know, there's been a vision, right?
00:54:40.960 -->
00:54:42.639Like of of where it can go.
00:54:42.719 -->
00:55:10.239And you know, it's it's been um obviously fun with me, you know, kind of getting into it and experiencing it and you know, just kind of talking, talking to a lot of the guys, right, that have have been more of the I'm gonna call them grassroots, you know, where the sport was very grassroots, very similar to strongmen in a way where I was like, okay, these it's happened, it's been happening, but then the attention, you know, is now coming so much more, right?
00:55:10.320 -->
00:55:13.599So like like in Germany, for example, is incredible, right?
00:55:13.679 -->
00:55:25.519The you know, the the audience and the people and the you know, there's so much media stuff happening and and interviews and whatever, like bringing a spotlight, right, to the sport, which is super cool.
00:55:25.679 -->
00:55:34.320And I I feel like the you know, what yourself and Dexter are doing is it but it take it it's the the time and the commitment to make that happen, right?
00:55:34.400 -->
00:55:52.559And it's it's neat to like obviously hear you talk about it, but the demands, like simply the demands of of putting on an event in a different location, in a different country, for example, you know, the logistics of that are really to me, it's it's mind-blowing, right?
00:55:52.639 -->
00:55:57.519Because it's you know, to put on a big event at at any type of scale is already difficult.
00:55:57.679 -->
00:56:06.000But if you're trying to understand this location, what are the you know, what are the needs of that, how are you gonna set it up, how is it gonna run?
00:56:06.159 -->
00:56:09.920You know, that this is a there's a lot to that, a lot to that for sure.
00:56:10.320 -->
00:56:14.000Well you you know as well as probably anybody I can imagine on earth.
00:56:14.159 -->
00:56:19.599You you know, but most I mean I I know most people you know they just can't know.
00:56:19.679 -->
00:56:21.199I mean there there's no way they could know.
00:56:21.280 -->
00:56:21.519Yes.
00:56:21.679 -->
00:56:26.079I mean, I wouldn't expect people know, but um, it's way more than I would have thought.
00:56:26.239 -->
00:56:26.800Let's just say.
00:56:26.880 -->
00:56:32.960I mean, like so I didn't think this was going to be seven, seven days a week, literally 20 hours a day.
00:56:33.039 -->
00:56:33.199Yeah.
00:56:33.360 -->
00:56:38.239I mean, like, I I didn't know that you could actually function with only three or four hours sleep every night.
00:56:38.559 -->
00:56:50.079Some of the honestly, like some of the messages like we've even sent and stuff, it's like, because I'm up late a lot, you know, it just uh for whatever reason you get drawn into more work and stuff going on.
00:56:50.239 -->
00:56:55.440But it's like, you know, it just uh I I've often thought like, okay, when does Robert sleep?
00:56:56.000 -->
00:56:58.639Well, I actually get more sleep than Dexter.
00:56:58.719 -->
00:57:00.000So Dexter's young.
00:57:00.079 -->
00:57:02.880Yeah, and somehow he only needs like a couple hours sleep.
00:57:03.039 -->
00:57:03.280Gosh.
00:57:03.519 -->
00:57:09.119And and so he's uh and and a lot of days, like people on our staff are like, Dexter, did you sleep?
00:57:09.199 -->
00:57:10.960And he's like, No, I I didn't, I didn't know.
00:57:11.199 -->
00:57:11.679You just stayed up.
00:57:12.000 -->
00:57:13.920I just stayed up because there's just no time.
00:57:14.159 -->
00:57:15.440Oh my gosh, yeah, that's it's crazy.
00:57:15.599 -->
00:57:18.800I mean, I mean, it'll get better, and it is getting better actually.
00:57:18.880 -->
00:57:19.039Yeah.
00:57:19.199 -->
00:57:21.280So last night I got four hours sleep.
00:57:21.360 -->
00:57:23.440I mean, maybe maybe four and a half, actually.
00:57:23.599 -->
00:57:24.719So it is getting better.
00:57:25.039 -->
00:57:25.519Okay, okay.
00:57:25.760 -->
00:57:27.280I hope it's getting better for Dexter too.
00:57:27.440 -->
00:57:27.599Yes.
00:57:27.760 -->
00:57:37.039But uh yeah, it but the whole staff is like they're they're like so passionate about arm wrestling, and and it it's like we've got so many great people.
00:57:37.199 -->
00:57:39.119I mean, you met some of them.
00:57:39.280 -->
00:57:44.239I mean, you know Snirjana, I think, on the from the matchmaking side.
00:57:44.480 -->
00:57:47.360I mean, you know, she's super passionate as well.
00:57:47.440 -->
00:57:55.840But but everybody, you know, well, I feel like the team, and you know, it's it's interesting to hear you talk about, you know, five guys and you know, the team that you built.
00:57:55.920 -->
00:57:58.960Like I and I've seen it now, obviously with Germany.
00:57:59.039 -->
00:58:06.880It's like the team that that you guys are starting to build around East versus West is also it's getting to be that, right?
00:58:06.960 -->
00:58:10.719Like where everybody's got their role, they're gonna execute super well.
00:58:10.880 -->
00:58:15.920And the events I think are just gonna keep keep improving and keep getting better, you know.
00:58:16.000 -->
00:58:27.519And I think that I think that everybody's starting to see that, you know, which is awesome, you know, and the and the athletes, like it's so fun to, you know, talk to them and their experience and and how things are going.
00:58:27.599 -->
00:58:30.480Like, there's a lot of this stuff that's really positive, right?
00:58:30.559 -->
00:58:33.440So it creates a lot of buzz, you know, around the event.
00:58:33.519 -->
00:58:44.559And then, you know, the athletes, the more that they talk about a positive and and their following and it goes out to people, the more growth is gonna happen, you know, and that's and that's what's super cool.
00:58:44.800 -->
00:58:47.920You know, I think it's it's but it's quite an undertaking, right?
00:58:48.000 -->
00:59:04.559Like, and and I don't know, you know, with with um you getting into I don't know if you kind of saw it that way that it was gonna be quite that much of an undertaking, but you know, I know and even more so now after talking, it's not something you're gonna back down from, right?
00:59:04.639 -->
00:59:08.000Like it's like, okay, here's a challenge, let's go, right?
00:59:08.079 -->
00:59:09.199Like, let's figure it out.
00:59:09.519 -->
00:59:10.400Yeah, exactly.
00:59:10.559 -->
00:59:14.159And and uh it'd be so easy just to say, you know, let's back off.
00:59:14.239 -->
00:59:21.199I mean, after Germany, I mean the the tendency is, you know, I mean my natural tendency is like, oh, good, let's take a little break.
00:59:21.679 -->
00:59:23.280Like the next event is gonna make it.
00:59:23.599 -->
00:59:23.840You can't.
00:59:23.920 -->
00:59:31.440I mean, like, like in fact, it's like, you know what, we've got to do more, we've got to keep the pedal to the metal because if we back off at all, yeah, it you you know what happens.
00:59:31.519 -->
00:59:39.199I mean, you back off at all in any business or any it, you know, anything you're doing, and it just you know, you just lose all that momentum.
00:59:39.519 -->
00:59:40.960The momentum's gotta continue.
00:59:41.039 -->
00:59:44.000Yeah, um, and we've got to do more, not less.
00:59:44.159 -->
00:59:44.320Yeah.
00:59:44.639 -->
00:59:46.960Which is, you know, challenging, yeah.
00:59:47.119 -->
00:59:49.280But it's I I think totally worth it.
00:59:49.360 -->
00:59:53.519And I mean, you you you have to you have to love what you're doing, I think.
00:59:53.679 -->
01:00:09.840And you know, you're obviously passionate in everything that you do, which is I mean, I I think it makes it even harder, you know, because you you're so passionate and you're so meticulous, and you go the extra mile on every single thing that you do.
01:00:10.239 -->
01:00:10.480Yep.
01:00:10.639 -->
01:00:22.800And and so what I was gonna say, Brian, while you're here too, is I don't think you, you know, I mean I mean, I've heard, you know, people saying, Oh, you know, Brian's getting out of arm of saying like I listened to the podcast, I didn't hear that at all.
01:00:22.960 -->
01:00:33.039I mean, I heard that that you know, he for the foreseeable future for 2026 and 27, you're not gonna do world strongest man, world strongest arm, you know.
01:00:33.280 -->
01:00:38.320But that doesn't mean you know that I mean that's not necessarily arm wrestling thing.
01:00:38.480 -->
01:00:42.400And then also you've got your family, you've got your kids, all sure understandably.
01:00:42.639 -->
01:00:51.840You want to spend time with them, but you don't have to spend, I mean, I I was gonna mention this to you, you don't have to spend uh the time that you've been spending on arm wrestling.
01:00:52.000 -->
01:00:57.360Yeah, I mean, really a practice a week, um, and have couple people come to you.
01:00:57.440 -->
01:00:58.079They'll come to you.
01:00:58.159 -->
01:01:00.559I mean, you're a big, big name.
01:01:00.639 -->
01:01:07.840I mean, everybody wants to take I think the thing, the thing about it is it it, and I understand this more and more, right?
01:01:07.920 -->
01:01:14.639Like, as I've I've gone into it, and you know, there are certain guys at the beginning, and me being as competitive as I am, yeah.
01:01:14.800 -->
01:01:23.199You're the way that my mind goes is like, okay, well, you're I know you're telling me it's gonna take years here to you know build up the strength and the technique.
01:01:23.440 -->
01:01:25.199I think I can speed that up, right?
01:01:25.280 -->
01:01:34.400Like that's that's naturally where my mind goes, but also you know, with with a true understanding of okay, it's going to take time, right?
01:01:34.559 -->
01:01:50.880Like it's and that's you know, I think uh sometimes the you know arm wrestling fans, however you want to say it, like sometimes they're so quick to maybe hear what they want to hear that it they throw it out there and it's like, well, that's not guys, that's not what I said, right?
01:01:50.960 -->
01:01:53.679It's not that's not a that's not the information that I was putting out.
01:01:53.760 -->
01:01:55.679It's more okay, it's gonna take time.
01:01:55.920 -->
01:01:58.800I understand it's a long road, right?
01:01:58.960 -->
01:01:59.920We're gonna enjoy it.
01:02:00.000 -->
01:02:04.559I'm gonna have fun with it and keep working, you know, keep working to get better.
01:02:04.800 -->
01:02:14.800But it's it's um like from like you're saying, it's okay, let's maybe just be consistent with the work and it'll add up over time, you know.
01:02:14.880 -->
01:02:17.840And so that was more what I was trying to communicate.
01:02:17.920 -->
01:02:21.440It's not not so much uh like okay, I I can't do this.
01:02:21.519 -->
01:02:27.760It's it's but you know, as you're saying now, it's like you only the the bandwidth is only so much.
01:02:27.840 -->
01:02:28.320Yeah, right.
01:02:28.400 -->
01:02:37.199You only have so much as uh, you know, my output with with business and family and life and obligations and you know, there's a lot going on.
01:02:37.360 -->
01:02:46.320But also, for me, the I think the fun part is that arm wrestling can fit into a part of that, and I can still have fun with it, right?
01:02:46.400 -->
01:02:49.440And we have a practice, we get together, you have it, you know, have a good time.
01:02:49.599 -->
01:02:54.480And so it's like that's that's more, you know, um what I was trying to say.
01:02:54.559 -->
01:03:02.000It's you know, with that, and and you know, it's it's when you get too much on your plate, you're pulled in too many different directions.
01:03:02.159 -->
01:03:10.719At a certain point, it it is too much, and then you know, you can't necessarily focus so much on one thing, you've got your spread too thin, right?
01:03:10.880 -->
01:03:11.119Exactly.
01:03:11.280 -->
01:03:14.320So it's it's kind of and that's what I was trying to communicate.
01:03:14.400 -->
01:03:33.360Uh, you know, I I don't think that sometimes a lot of people understand like when you do have all these other things going on, it's you know, it's just you've got meetings and you've got things to do, and you know, it's and you'll you'll get it because you like literally what the story you're telling right now is your life is this, right?
01:03:33.440 -->
01:03:36.400Like that's constantly what you're dealing with, you know.
01:03:36.559 -->
01:03:44.400So it's it's uh you know, it's one of these things where um obviously with as busy as you've been, you've been able to arm wrestle, and we haven't even got into that.
01:03:44.559 -->
01:03:51.679Like, I mean, you and you have been at a high level, like it's not like oh, I just arm wrestled the track team and stuff that we were talking about.
01:03:51.840 -->
01:03:56.559I mean, you made it to a world level in arm wrestling and did well too, you know.
01:03:56.719 -->
01:03:58.719Like, so it's it's been a passion.
01:03:58.800 -->
01:04:03.199Like arm wrestling has been there, I think, with all the business that you've done.
01:04:03.519 -->
01:04:06.880Would you say for you it's been more of an like is that the outlet?
01:04:07.039 -->
01:04:11.280Is it has it been like, hey, this is something fun that I do and I really enjoy it?
01:04:11.519 -->
01:04:12.400Yeah, I'd love it.
01:04:12.480 -->
01:04:13.599I'd love arm wrestling.
01:04:13.679 -->
01:04:15.280Um it it's my passion.
01:04:15.519 -->
01:04:20.639I mean, I I haven't had time for other sports or even to go to other sports.
01:04:20.719 -->
01:04:22.719I used to have tickets to the jazz.
01:04:23.119 -->
01:04:25.840I was gonna say, uh you it would make sense, right?
01:04:25.920 -->
01:04:28.159Like from a business thing to have that.
01:04:28.400 -->
01:04:28.800Yeah.
01:04:29.039 -->
01:04:32.960And I and and um I I really like you said, you only have so much time.
01:04:33.199 -->
01:04:33.599Yeah.
01:04:34.079 -->
01:04:40.639So my my sport really has been arm wrestling, and that's really all I've had time for all these years.
01:04:40.960 -->
01:04:50.719Um, and I I only had time a lot of a lot of years just to go to arm wrestling practice and and not to do all the arm wrestling specific stuff.
01:04:50.960 -->
01:05:02.239But the stuff that you're doing, which is arm wrestling practice and the you know, the specific uh training and all that, and and even the general training that you do, I think is perfect.
01:05:02.400 -->
01:05:09.039Yeah, and if you look at you know, Europeans and Eastern Europeans, they're doing really what you're doing, they're doing it all, not doing it.
01:05:09.199 -->
01:05:09.920It was interesting, you know.
01:05:10.000 -->
01:05:14.000It's funny you say that because it was it was very interesting to have Armies come.
01:05:14.159 -->
01:05:14.400Uh-huh.
01:05:14.559 -->
01:05:20.639And and I and I kind of said when he was there, hey, let's just go through your I want to do what you would do in the gym.
01:05:20.880 -->
01:05:21.119Right?
01:05:21.199 -->
01:05:24.719Like, don't I don't want to dictate what we're doing or any of that.
01:05:24.880 -->
01:05:25.920Like, I just want to see.
01:05:26.079 -->
01:05:27.920I just want to learn like what you would do.
01:05:28.159 -->
01:05:36.239And he he actually does a lot of gym training, but integrates arm wrestling into the gym training, right?
01:05:36.400 -->
01:05:45.360Which is what what I was I was kind of knocking on the door of that and and starting to do is like, okay, I think that I think that I can marry the two together.
01:05:45.519 -->
01:05:52.079So it's I'm in the gym, I'm training, I still want to train, I still want to be strong, functionally strong, do all of these things.
01:05:52.320 -->
01:05:59.519But it was very fascinating uh with Ermi's to see what how he was doing it, and it was it was awesome how much.
01:06:00.400 -->
01:06:07.840We were thinking alike and it was kind of the same, you know, same type of concept of like, hey, I think just get in the gym and get strong.
01:06:07.920 -->
01:06:10.800There's certain things that you can focus on to get strong on.
01:06:11.039 -->
01:06:12.480But it w it was awesome.
01:06:12.559 -->
01:06:18.960And I think that a lot of those guys, I mean, and Lavon, I've had conversations with him about his training and lifting.
01:06:19.280 -->
01:06:20.400He's a strong guy.
01:06:20.719 -->
01:06:26.719You know, it's not like the and he he, you know, was saying to me, it's like, you know, he gets strong in the gym.
01:06:27.039 -->
01:06:36.880Doesn't necessarily at this point, because he's arm wrestled for so long, he doesn't spend a lot of time on the table, but he knows obviously how to arm wrestle extremely well.
01:06:37.199 -->
01:06:39.119But it's he knows where he needs to get strong.
01:06:39.280 -->
01:06:46.800So it's kind of identifying where you need to get strong, working on that, and then and then come back and then you get on the table and apply it, you know.
01:06:46.880 -->
01:06:50.320So it's it is fascinating though, like the different approaches.
01:06:50.480 -->
01:06:54.880And I don't know why uh maybe it comes from John Bersink, right?
01:06:55.760 -->
01:07:07.519Why maybe then you know, not everybody, everybody's a little bit different as you study them, but like that mentality of from John was like, I just I just I'm gonna arm wrestle on the table.
01:07:07.599 -->
01:07:26.639There's not really a lot of training outside of that, you know, and and some guys, and I think Devin now has almost gone to that approach in some capacities, but even in the short time that I've known Devin, I feel like he went from max lifts and heavy arm wrestling lifts to only on the table to two-hand work on the table, and this is the way to go.
01:07:26.719 -->
01:07:33.360And now we're gonna change, you know, it's like it's and maybe he changes his strategy for each, you know, competitor that he goes against.
01:07:33.519 -->
01:07:41.360But um I think that a combination, some combination of lifting and being strong and also doing the work on the table is the way to go.
01:07:41.599 -->
01:07:42.320Yeah, yeah.
01:07:42.400 -->
01:07:44.239And and I I think you're exactly right.
01:07:44.320 -->
01:07:52.079I mean, you know from strength probably more than almost everybody uh on the planet, just because you know, you know how to get strong.
01:07:52.239 -->
01:07:52.559Yeah.
01:07:52.719 -->
01:07:56.480Um, and you've you've there's a certain methodology, a certain way of doing that.
01:07:56.559 -->
01:08:08.719But just from the reading that I've done, which is you know, you know, nowhere near what your level you're at, um, I think this is the same thing that Devin does, is it you know it's a thing called periodization.
01:08:08.800 -->
01:08:12.880So your body adapts to whatever you do, so you gotta change the exercises up.
01:08:13.039 -->
01:08:22.800Um and so what what I see Devin doing all the time is he, you know, whatever phase he's in, it's like, oh this is the this now, this is the be all end all.
01:08:22.960 -->
01:08:33.359This is totally about but but it it is for him because you know he's changed direction, and now he's gonna get a lot of great benefit from that.
01:08:33.680 -->
01:08:33.840Sure.
01:08:34.079 -->
01:08:36.560But then at a certain point, it's gonna plateau out.
01:08:36.800 -->
01:08:37.279And then he's got it.
01:08:37.520 -->
01:08:39.279And then he's got to change to something else.
01:08:39.600 -->
01:08:42.159And and so I think that's perfect.
01:08:42.319 -->
01:08:52.880I mean, just changing up, because you know, you you don't want to plateau, you don't want to even if you're only getting minor gains, I mean, like why not change it up enough to where you can get some major gains.
01:08:53.039 -->
01:09:00.159So I think Devin is figured I mean has figured out how he, his body, you know, reacts the best.
01:09:00.399 -->
01:09:12.000I think Todd Zilla has figured out how his body, which is not necessarily the same way f that I would get the most benefit, or maybe you, and and you know, you know your body, you know what's going to get you results.
01:09:12.159 -->
01:09:31.840And you know, just so just so you know, Brian, too, and this is I really I really 100% believe this about your journey into arm wrestling, is you're at a so such a high level, so fast, you you your hand strength and wrist strength and finger strength is so advanced.
01:09:32.000 -->
01:09:37.279I mean, you just to put it in perspective, and and and you only have been in it for two years, un unheard of.
01:09:37.760 -->
01:09:46.159Because, you know, let's say let let's just let's just compare you to um Leonidas's hand and wrist and fingers.
01:09:46.560 -->
01:09:50.079You had control in your match and it had to go to the strap.
01:09:50.399 -->
01:09:56.079He had to get it to the straps, he had to slip in order for him to get an advantage.
01:09:56.399 -->
01:09:59.680Because he didn't have the advantage there, clearly he had you had the advantage.
01:09:59.840 -->
01:10:00.960And he had the advantage.
01:10:01.199 -->
01:10:07.199Just to put it that in perspective, sure again, he had the advantage clearly with John Brzecke's hand and wrist and fingers.
01:10:07.279 -->
01:10:11.600Now, John Brzecke is unbelievably strong in those areas.
01:10:11.920 -->
01:10:12.399Yes, for sure.
01:10:12.880 -->
01:10:18.640And he took John's hand and wrist in Orlando in uh August of 2024.
01:10:18.880 -->
01:10:19.039Yes.
01:10:19.840 -->
01:10:24.800So and and and and he had only been pulling for two and a half years at that point.
01:10:25.199 -->
01:10:34.640Now he's he's actually stronger now, clearly, and he agrees, and de and Devin agrees, he's stronger now than he than he was at that point.
01:10:35.199 -->
01:10:35.520Makes sense.
01:10:35.760 -->
01:10:41.199And and so just to put everything in perspective, that's where your hand and wrist and fingers are.
01:10:41.439 -->
01:11:01.520And the only thing in my opinion that you know that you know that's stopping you from from getting to even a much higher level and levels is you know, you know, now developing um the you know, the arm a little bit more so to where it catches up to you know to the hand and wrist and fingers.
01:11:01.760 -->
01:11:04.880And and um and which is the most important area that you already have.
01:11:05.119 -->
01:11:05.279Sure.
01:11:05.600 -->
01:11:10.640And and also um, you know, more in the hook, I I think as well.
01:11:10.880 -->
01:11:15.039But um not that you really necessarily need it because you can keep people out of the hook.
01:11:15.279 -->
01:11:18.560I mean, like Ermis, he probably doesn't have to worry about his hook.
01:11:18.720 -->
01:11:18.800Yeah.
01:11:19.119 -->
01:11:21.439Even though it's good, it's not as good as his top roll.
01:11:21.520 -->
01:11:21.600Totally.
01:11:21.840 -->
01:11:29.279But I don't think he probably has to worry about maybe nobody getting him into the hook because he's incredibly strong.
01:11:29.359 -->
01:11:29.520Yeah.
01:11:29.840 -->
01:11:47.279And then the only other thing I can see is, you know, I mean, once you get this the strap part of your game down to where you're not worried about going the straps with anybody, I mean, now you really don't have, you know, a a way for somebody to take advantage of of their strength.
01:11:47.760 -->
01:11:53.279I think the strap, and we you and I got to have a really good conversation about that um actually in Germany.
01:11:53.359 -->
01:12:03.680And I I think it's just the understanding, like the true understanding of the the strap and how you know how to use your strength with it.
01:12:03.920 -->
01:12:05.199But I I mean I agree with you.
01:12:05.279 -->
01:12:17.840It's just I mean, you can obviously add strength in so many different areas, and it's identifying again where you need to add the strength, and then making a plan to add the strength there where you need it.
01:12:17.920 -->
01:12:31.039And you know, I think the the um like one of the hardest uh areas for me is uh, or at least in this last match, well, to be fair, I think in all of my matches, has been the referee's grip.
01:12:31.199 -->
01:12:34.479And I'm so you know, and into a fault, right?
01:12:34.560 -->
01:12:40.319Like you you try to do it, but even in a practice, if it's like, hey, let's do a referee's grip, you move a little bit, right?
01:12:40.399 -->
01:12:42.560Like you kind of set yourself just a little bit.
01:12:43.039 -->
01:12:50.079And that's where I couldn't, well, I because you're on that stage and everything's happening, it's like, okay, guys, don't move your hands.
01:12:50.239 -->
01:12:52.640And it's like, well, I wanna I want to move just a little bit.
01:12:52.720 -->
01:12:57.039I want, you know, I want to just set in here a little bit, and you can't quite do that.
01:12:57.279 -->
01:13:04.560And so I almost felt like I couldn't uh I don't know for of a better analogy, like I couldn't cock the gun, right?
01:13:04.640 -->
01:13:10.880Like I couldn't quite get exactly where I felt the the tension and and lock the system in.
01:13:11.039 -->
01:13:16.399And that's you know, again, but it's it's just being in that moment with a true referee's grip.
01:13:16.640 -->
01:13:19.760How do you get yourself set in that?
01:13:20.079 -->
01:13:22.159And you know, it's just experience, right?
01:13:22.239 -->
01:13:31.199So, like sometimes you know, just like this one, it's like you you you're gonna and and most people said coming in, there's gonna be a point where you lose, right?
01:13:31.359 -->
01:13:34.720You're just you're gonna lose and it's gonna make you better.
01:13:34.880 -->
01:13:37.359And I think that that's that's how you have to take that.
01:13:37.600 -->
01:13:47.840So you you know, and and it's um it's so interesting because like the the um you know, coming coming out of the Leon Hyattis match, it's like I feel like I learned.
01:13:47.920 -->
01:13:50.640Well, every one of them that I've had now, I've learned, right?
01:13:50.720 -->
01:13:56.720And you learn in practice and you learn pulling with, you know, I've got to pull with so many awesome guys, right?
01:13:56.880 -->
01:14:12.800And you learn from all of them because like even you know, with with Devin or with Ermes or um Philip Larson, like the like these guys, they're probably doing things naturally that I'm kind of feeling that maybe they don't realize they're even doing, you know.
01:14:12.880 -->
01:14:16.560So I like I'm picking it up and saying, like, okay, that feels a certain way.
01:14:16.720 -->
01:14:18.960Um, and it's just the application, right?
01:14:19.039 -->
01:14:24.399So it's fun, but like it's kind of a puzzle that you have to, you know, you need to figure it out.
01:14:24.560 -->
01:14:25.840Like you just gotta figure it out.
01:14:26.000 -->
01:14:28.960So, you know, but but um, and understandably so.
01:14:29.039 -->
01:14:46.640I mean, people I think put pressure, they put a lot of pressure on me to develop quicker, to be there, you know, and then it then if something doesn't go right, it's like, oh my gosh, Brian's this or that, and now he's done, or he's here's where his head is, or whatever.
01:14:46.720 -->
01:14:51.119Like, and they're so quick to jump to these conclusions, I guess, right?
01:14:51.279 -->
01:14:56.319And it and it's you know, but it's I guess it comes, it comes with the territory, right?
01:14:56.399 -->
01:15:12.159If you have a big, you know, big following of people or whatever, there there is that pressure where you know it's it's um even even at the event there like uh manifestor and I got on the table because he was like, and it was right after my match, right?
01:15:12.239 -->
01:15:18.159So I was like, oh, I'm not fresh, but I just want to kind of feel uh, you know, where you're going and how you feel.
01:15:18.399 -->
01:15:21.520So I wasn't trying I wasn't going maximum at all.
01:15:21.600 -->
01:15:28.079And he, you know, he was pinning me, and I was like, okay, I'm just kind of feeling where you're at and and how how it goes, you know.
01:15:28.159 -->
01:15:33.439But it was like somebody took a video of that, and I didn't even know that even though the video was happening.
01:15:33.520 -->
01:15:51.439I thought we were just kind of on the table when I was learning, and it was like, then then here's the video, and the next thing is oh my gosh, manifestors crushing Brian, like this such a terrible thing, and it's it's like so wild to me because all I was doing is I was like, this guy's at a very high level.
01:15:51.520 -->
01:16:03.199Yeah, I want to see if I can and he and he asked me, and I was like, Yeah, my arm's completely shot here, but I just want to see what you feel like, and so the taking these opportunities to learn, right?
01:16:03.359 -->
01:16:10.560But then it goes on in the you know, the internet's such a wild place because they catch on to that, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, did you see this?
01:16:10.720 -->
01:16:37.359This is now, and it it's like guys understand the setting, like understand what it is, and you know, even in a practice poll, like you know, I've seen you know, you've you see different things get posted, but you have no idea of was that at the beginning of practice, was it at the end of practice, who's going yeah at what level, you know, yeah, and so you just but again it's this um you you have to be able to learn, right?
01:16:37.439 -->
01:16:44.880Like at certain points, I like you know, I would say for me, you have to just go have fun, but also it's learning, right?
01:16:44.960 -->
01:16:50.239So, like every video that goes out, you can't hyperanalyze every video.
01:16:50.399 -->
01:16:59.039And if if a pin happens or something, I feel like sometimes in arm wrestling, with me especially, I've kind of felt like people are, oh my gosh, did you see this guy?
01:16:59.119 -->
01:17:06.960Like he pinned Brian and he did this, and it's like, well, you have to get in those situations to learn how to deal with those situations, you know.
01:17:07.039 -->
01:17:09.439Yep, so yeah, it's a it's a fascinating one, really.
01:17:09.760 -->
01:17:16.239It is, and I and I I've I saw the same thing in people and saying, uh, did you see Manifest her?
01:17:16.319 -->
01:17:17.600I'm like, that means nothing.
01:17:17.840 -->
01:17:19.920And and here's why arm wrestlers already know this.
01:17:20.000 -->
01:17:26.880Yeah, so if you're an arm wrestler, that they already know that means nothing because you had a three and two.
01:17:27.119 -->
01:17:30.159I mean, I mean, it it it was as even as you could get practically.
01:17:30.319 -->
01:17:35.920I mean, like and and and you you had tough, tough matches, and so did Leonidas.
01:17:36.640 -->
01:17:39.520So obviously you're gonna be very tired.
01:17:39.680 -->
01:17:39.920Yep.
01:17:40.159 -->
01:17:43.520And and he did not have any tough matches.
01:17:43.840 -->
01:17:44.399No, yeah.
01:17:44.800 -->
01:17:49.840He he he he went right through um our world champion who's undefeated.
01:17:50.159 -->
01:17:50.560Which was crazy.
01:17:50.960 -->
01:17:51.359Unbelievable.
01:17:51.439 -->
01:18:00.239So you know, he's had a so you you can't judge, you know, fresh versus totally, you know, trashed.
01:18:00.399 -->
01:18:04.880I mean, oh yeah, but arm wrestlers know, and yeah and they're like, well, that doesn't mean anything.
01:18:05.119 -->
01:18:09.520But but if you're a fan and not an arm wrestler, sure, then it's like, oh my goodness, this is bad.
01:18:10.479 -->
01:18:10.640Yeah.
01:18:10.880 -->
01:18:19.840I saw somebody, it it's crazy though, like you see that get posted, and I didn't, I literally wasn't even aware that anybody was filming or anything.
01:18:20.000 -->
01:18:21.840And so you're you're just doing it.
01:18:21.920 -->
01:18:26.880And again, I was like, okay, I want to just kind of feel how, you know, because again, he's at a high level.
01:18:27.039 -->
01:18:29.199I can respect that completely.
01:18:29.359 -->
01:18:33.039And it's like, all right, well, let's just see if I can pick anything up here, you know.
01:18:33.199 -->
01:18:49.439But then it turns into that, and it's like, well, all right, guys, come on, like let's, you know, like I just, you know, it's it's one of those things where now, you know, it's it'd be it would be in a perfect world, you could go and do a practice and everybody just leaves their phone outside.
01:18:49.520 -->
01:18:54.800Yeah, you know, and it's like, hey guys, let's just go in and focus and get better and and train together, you know.
01:18:55.199 -->
01:18:56.319That is the way it should be.
01:18:56.479 -->
01:19:04.560In fact, in in Germany, we we had our extended poll and um we didn't have anybody in the room really monitoring.
01:19:04.720 -->
01:19:07.680Yeah, and so videos got out that shouldn't have gotten out.
01:19:07.760 -->
01:19:18.079I mean, like that that really um uh you know were not, you know, it it it wasn't really it it doesn't really tell the the right story.
01:19:18.239 -->
01:19:33.039I mean, and um well and even even on and so I I I did a little bit on the extended poll, and um you know Philip Larson was already, you know, had been polling and he he was already tired.
01:19:33.279 -->
01:19:33.439Sure.
01:19:33.760 -->
01:19:38.079So when and he and I pulled, you know, that shouldn't have been posted either.
01:19:38.479 -->
01:19:45.199And and I even told our our team, I said, hey, cut that out because that that is not really you know realistic.
01:19:45.439 -->
01:19:53.920I mean that that's not a real representation, and we don't want to, you know, send you know wrong messages out and somehow that didn't, you know, that that got missed.
01:19:54.079 -->
01:20:12.319So but but in the future, what we've decided is, you know, on those polls, yeah, we we have somebody in the room of and and and it was told everybody no filming and other than other than just EVW, um, and then it and then it's more it's it's you know it's more um you know legit.
01:20:12.560 -->
01:20:12.800Sure.
01:20:13.039 -->
01:20:20.159But um but otherwise people can just take bits and pieces and they can make whatever storyline they want and marry wherever they want.
01:20:20.560 -->
01:20:35.359But next time for the in the future, we'll have actually somebody in the room like Sneerjana, yeah, you know, Anna, um monitoring, making sure so that um you know so that people are getting the the the real story.
01:20:35.520 -->
01:20:43.600Yeah, you know, that's somebody I and these these events, the thing is as they get more hyped up, more and more people are gonna come.
01:20:43.760 -->
01:20:52.239Like, like in the even in the green room, there was somebody, I don't even know if you know this, somebody climbed through the window the uh from the outside.
01:20:52.479 -->
01:20:55.840Oh wow, climbed through the window to get a picture with me.
01:20:56.159 -->
01:20:56.479Wow.
01:20:56.640 -->
01:20:59.840And I was like, all right, man, like I guess it's hard to turn them away.
01:21:00.239 -->
01:21:00.640I know, right?
01:21:01.199 -->
01:21:01.920That's dedication.
01:21:02.159 -->
01:21:02.720That's true.
01:21:03.520 -->
01:21:07.119And yeah, yeah, we we we need security guards on the windows, yeah.
01:21:07.439 -->
01:21:09.199Yeah, like, but you wouldn't think that.
01:21:09.279 -->
01:21:14.560We just oh the window is open to get fresh air, yeah, you know, but you would never think that people are gonna climb through the window.
01:21:14.880 -->
01:21:16.079And that they would know where to go.
01:21:16.560 -->
01:21:21.439I know, yeah, but it like the and that's it's I guess it's a good thing though, because it shows growth, right?
01:21:21.600 -->
01:21:30.720Like I think in you know, you can um and that I think the thing is too for the fans, ultimately they want to see the pulls happen.
01:21:30.960 -->
01:21:34.079And this is you know, if you could be a fly on the wall, right?
01:21:34.159 -->
01:21:43.039And I think that's what they really want is if if a pr uh any practice is happening, if they could truly just be a fly on the wall and watch it happen, okay, cool.
01:21:43.119 -->
01:21:45.279Let's see what, let's see what what's going down.
01:21:45.439 -->
01:21:57.520But it makes it it it just makes it hard when you're like some let somebody like me, for example, where it's like, hey, and I've and I've even told you know the guys that come over to my gym, you know what, let's just train.
01:21:57.680 -->
01:22:10.399Let's just train where, you know, and yes, we'll try to throw some stuff out there because we want to keep the we want to keep the following and the fans happy and stuff, but by and large, like a lot of the work, we don't necessarily even have to film it, right?
01:22:10.479 -->
01:22:15.279Yeah, like let's just do it, let's do the work, and it doesn't even have to go out, you know.
01:22:15.439 -->
01:22:19.680So I think it's it's a byproduct of people being interested, right?
01:22:19.840 -->
01:22:26.960So like you can you can look at it as a a negative, but you also can look at it as a positive and say, okay, cool.
01:22:27.039 -->
01:22:29.359Well, you know, like you said, arm wrestlers.
01:22:29.520 -->
01:22:36.800And I think the the neat part for me is having the conversations with with the top guys, yeah, right.
01:22:36.960 -->
01:22:39.520Like and getting feedback from the top guys.
01:22:39.840 -->
01:22:43.119Those are the guys that I would go to for advice.
01:22:43.680 -->
01:22:45.920That's who I would ask for advice, right?
01:22:46.079 -->
01:22:50.479Um, anybody that's been in a sport for a long time, that's who I would ask for advice.
01:22:50.640 -->
01:23:02.000And it's it's often like one of the things that I've always uh remembered is I I won't, I do not take criticism from people that I wouldn't ask advice from.
01:23:02.800 -->
01:23:03.119Right.
01:23:03.279 -->
01:23:11.920So if I if they're not gonna, if I'm not gonna go to them and say advice, like okay, if they if I ask them advice and they're like, hey Brian, you're doing this wrong or that wrong, cool, that's criticism.
01:23:12.000 -->
01:23:15.520You take that fair enough, no problem, like you're learning.
01:23:15.760 -->
01:23:24.560But like the people that criticize that I wouldn't necessarily ever ask advice from, that's not I don't I you can't let that impact you, right?
01:23:24.640 -->
01:23:34.800Yeah, like and I think that's one of those things with with me getting in, you know, uh if you keep that in your mind, then it's a you know, it's no, it's no problem, right?
01:23:34.880 -->
01:23:44.079But the I think the build, you know, what you guys are doing, what I'll say is what you guys are doing and the commitment that you have to growing East versus West is incredible.
01:23:44.319 -->
01:23:45.760It's you know, it's been fun to see.
01:23:45.840 -->
01:23:50.000And it's only, I mean, this is not even coming up on coming up on a year, right?
01:23:50.079 -->
01:23:52.319Like since you guys took over, really.
01:23:52.640 -->
01:23:55.760Yeah, yeah, for completely took taken over.
01:23:55.840 -->
01:23:57.680Yeah, it's only been like less than a year.
01:23:57.920 -->
01:23:58.239Yeah, yeah.
01:23:58.399 -->
01:24:11.439So that already, you know, now you're talking about China, you're talking about like some of these huge, huge things, which I mean, the doors that that stuff could open is really in a way, like kind of mind-blowing, you know.
01:24:11.680 -->
01:24:20.560It is much bigger market, and then you know, it's not just China either, because now we've got uh, I mean, you know, Malaysia is coming up here.
01:24:20.720 -->
01:24:22.640That that's actually where Dexter was born.
01:24:23.039 -->
01:24:23.279Okay.
01:24:23.520 -->
01:24:26.479But um, so you know, Devon will be there next month.
01:24:26.560 -->
01:24:29.279Uh that that'll be in June um coming up.
01:24:29.680 -->
01:24:34.560And then um Thailand, they want to send, you know, they want EVW in Thailand.
01:24:34.720 -->
01:24:36.000Of course, we want to be in Thailand.
01:24:36.079 -->
01:24:37.680That's a cool place.
01:24:38.000 -->
01:24:44.000And uh and then uh there's there are lots of other areas, uh South Korea we're talking about.
01:24:44.159 -->
01:24:46.880Um I I would love to go back to Japan.
01:24:47.039 -->
01:24:51.439I've had two world championships, WAF World Championships in Japan.
01:24:51.680 -->
01:24:56.800And to me, best venue, best place, best, I mean, and the best food.
01:24:57.039 -->
01:24:59.840I'm I'm really into food, you know, too much.
01:25:00.239 -->
01:25:01.279No, that's all right, man.
01:25:01.359 -->
01:25:02.079That's all right, yeah.
01:25:02.399 -->
01:25:04.239But uh yeah, I'd love love it there.
01:25:04.479 -->
01:25:14.239And um and then Philippines is another area that uh you know we're really you know looking at, and Singapore is already going with that's so cool.
01:25:14.479 -->
01:25:24.159There's just so many areas that uh in in uh Southeast Asia that needs that need to be underexposed and and you know will be in are in the process.
01:25:24.399 -->
01:25:28.640So and and uh yeah, that's just part of the world.
01:25:28.880 -->
01:25:29.119Sure.
01:25:29.520 -->
01:25:31.520But we have a lot of places to go.
01:25:31.680 -->
01:25:42.159And what what's amazing is is every time we go into a new area, just like UFC has discovered, and I'm sure strongman has discovered the same thing, as you travel around the world, you pick up new fans that you wouldn't have.
01:25:42.560 -->
01:25:48.239Big time that because they don't have to know arm wrestling, but they come sure and they're converts.
01:25:48.319 -->
01:25:50.640Yeah, now they're or whatever the sport is.
01:25:50.800 -->
01:25:53.600Or you know, I I mean I use the analogy of a rock concert.
01:25:53.760 -->
01:25:56.000I mean, I mean, there's a reason that they tour around the world.
01:25:56.159 -->
01:25:57.520Yes, they're picking up new fans.
01:25:57.920 -->
01:26:09.840Oh, it's and and the thing the thing is, and I I sure you would agree with this, and I would say the same thing for strongman, but watching watching arm wrestling live, different animal.
01:26:10.159 -->
01:26:11.600Totally just a different animal.
01:26:11.840 -->
01:26:22.000And you can't explain it because there's not really it'd be like explaining why did you like this rock concert um more than you liked listening to the same song on a radio on the radio.
01:26:22.560 -->
01:26:25.119You can't really explain it exactly, but there's a big difference.
01:26:25.439 -->
01:26:26.079Big, big, big.
01:26:26.319 -->
01:26:27.039Yeah, the energy.
01:26:27.279 -->
01:26:29.039It's just the energy in the room.
01:26:29.279 -->
01:26:31.680There it's it's uh a different experience.
01:26:31.760 -->
01:26:32.159Yeah, you know.
01:26:32.720 -->
01:26:33.279It really is.
01:26:33.359 -->
01:26:45.600And and that's one thing that um I really believed in that if we can get the media, not just any media, but mainstream media to one of our events, they'll become converts.
01:26:45.840 -->
01:26:46.079Sure.
01:26:46.319 -->
01:26:49.760And and but we they'd have to they just have to come and experience it.
01:26:50.159 -->
01:26:53.279Even if we have to pay their way and pay their flights and pay their hotel.
01:26:54.399 -->
01:26:58.079I mean UFC and and other sports are not paying any of these guys.
01:26:58.239 -->
01:26:58.399Yeah.
01:26:58.720 -->
01:27:02.560But but we need to right now until they become converted.
01:27:02.800 -->
01:27:02.960Sure.
01:27:03.359 -->
01:27:10.720Once we get them there, yeah, it it just changes everything because now they're gonna be, you know, they they they see the vision.
01:27:10.800 -->
01:27:11.600I mean, they felt it.
01:27:11.840 -->
01:27:12.000Sure.
01:27:12.239 -->
01:27:16.560I mean, and and they can't describe it maybe very well, but they love they're loving it.
01:27:16.800 -->
01:27:18.079Well then they start to tell the story.
01:27:18.239 -->
01:27:20.399Yeah you know, and that's that's what it gets out there.
01:27:20.560 -->
01:27:21.920But that's awesome, man.
01:27:22.000 -->
01:27:24.880So next one, East versus West 24.
01:27:25.199 -->
01:27:25.520Yes.
01:27:25.760 -->
01:27:29.359Little Rocky coming together.
01:27:29.600 -->
01:27:40.079I mean, um this has been Michael Todd's been helping working on this for since the since the last since Christmas time, even before that, actually.
01:27:40.239 -->
01:27:42.479Um, and it's really coming together.
01:27:43.119 -->
01:27:46.159Um it it's a it's a small town.
01:27:46.399 -->
01:27:48.239I mean, it's like 300,000 people.
01:27:48.640 -->
01:27:53.039Not a lot going on, you know, not not a lot, um, you know, a lot of density.
01:27:53.119 -->
01:27:58.319Uh I mean, so it's um you know, it's something that normally we wouldn't have done.
01:27:58.399 -->
01:28:02.159We did it because Michael, such a good salesman is really the reason.
01:28:02.640 -->
01:28:03.760He's like, hey, come here.
01:28:04.159 -->
01:28:04.960He's passionate, Matt.
01:28:05.199 -->
01:28:05.600He's passionate.
01:28:05.840 -->
01:28:06.640No, you have to believe it.
01:28:07.199 -->
01:28:07.359Yeah.
01:28:07.439 -->
01:28:09.520So he's he's really the reason we're doing this.
01:28:09.600 -->
01:28:12.079And and I told him, hey, you know what?
01:28:12.319 -->
01:28:21.760If you can, if you can make this happen, I mean, I mean, it's going to be you, you know, interviewing on with the news stations, it's going to be you on the radio, it's going to be you.
01:28:22.159 -->
01:28:26.319And and and uh, you know, it it it's gonna be a lot of work.
01:28:26.399 -->
01:28:27.600Yeah, and he was all for it.
01:28:27.760 -->
01:28:29.920So I mean, this is a shout out to Michael.
01:28:30.000 -->
01:28:31.680I mean, he did so well.
01:28:31.760 -->
01:28:35.680He he, in my opinion, he's the best salesperson we have in our wrestling.
01:28:36.000 -->
01:28:38.720And so I thought, okay, if anybody can do it, Michael can.
01:28:38.960 -->
01:28:39.199Yeah.
01:28:39.359 -->
01:28:42.720He actually, this is just one example of how good of a salesperson he is.
01:28:42.960 -->
01:28:50.640He got the local Ford dealership, McLarty Ford, to give him an eighty thousand dollar pickup truck for free.
01:28:50.880 -->
01:28:51.279Wow.
01:28:51.439 -->
01:28:54.079And and he told him, look, uh, this is gonna be a traveling billboard.
01:28:54.159 -->
01:28:57.760I'm gonna have Monster Michael Todd and McLarty Ford on my trucker.
01:28:58.079 -->
01:29:06.880They're gonna have, you know, have uh and uh and and they did it, and they're one of our big, big sponsors for the show as well.
01:29:07.359 -->
01:29:07.600Awesome.
01:29:07.840 -->
01:29:12.000Um, but yeah, so he's he's done really well, but he's he's done that in the past too.
01:29:12.159 -->
01:29:19.520Like he's actually made a living in arm wrestling by just getting these big sponsors um to believe in his vision.
01:29:19.760 -->
01:29:20.560Yeah, what we're gonna do.
01:29:20.800 -->
01:29:23.920And he believes in it so much, and it's easy for them to believe, they can feel it.
01:29:24.079 -->
01:29:29.760They can feel the passion, they can feel you know the commitment is so anyway, yeah.
01:29:29.840 -->
01:29:39.199I mean, and now he's like, hey, I've got these guys, you know, they've already spent their budget basically and um for sponsors.
01:29:39.680 -->
01:29:43.279But next year, if we have it next year, we'll we'll get even more.
01:29:43.439 -->
01:29:44.239So plan it in too.
01:29:45.359 -->
01:29:46.880And so we can even do a bigger event.
01:29:47.039 -->
01:29:53.119Um but yeah, so we've we've got some big names, I mean some big people coming to this uh event.
01:29:53.279 -->
01:29:58.000I mean, just just um celebrity-wise, yeah, it it's great.
01:29:58.079 -->
01:30:00.000And that's kind of what UFC did too, if you remember.
01:30:00.159 -->
01:30:03.520Like they started They're all on the front row, they're on the front row, yeah, yeah.
01:30:03.760 -->
01:30:07.039And and so they, you know, it and and it becomes a cool thing, you know.
01:30:07.119 -->
01:30:18.079I mean and absolutely so if we can get um I mean, you know, as you know, I mean, Gordon Ryan is coming and and he's a big name in in mixed martial arts.
01:30:18.319 -->
01:30:18.720Oh, for sure.
01:30:19.600 -->
01:30:22.399Well and and just in in combat sports in general.
01:30:22.640 -->
01:30:22.960Yep.
01:30:23.199 -->
01:30:30.560Um and so he's he's r really gotten involved with arm wrestling because I think mainly because of Devin.
01:30:30.880 -->
01:30:35.920Devin has sh has taken the time to kind of show him some things and train with him.
01:30:36.159 -->
01:30:46.000And uh, you know, Devin said this guy picked up in two hours just so much that you would never imagine anybody normal person being able to pick and absorb.
01:30:46.560 -->
01:30:51.840Just the way that his brain works, I'm sure, with the the way that he has to move his body and yeah, everything.
01:30:52.079 -->
01:30:52.319Yeah.
01:30:52.560 -->
01:30:59.840And and and so he you know, he's on Joe Rogan a lot as well, and because Joe Rogan's a big time next martial arts guy, of course, to start with.
01:31:00.239 -->
01:31:03.680And um, you know, and Joe says this guy is the GOAT.
01:31:03.840 -->
01:31:06.880Like there is nobody ever been on his level.
01:31:07.199 -->
01:31:08.079He's only 30 years old.
01:31:08.319 -->
01:31:08.720It's incredible.
01:31:08.880 -->
01:31:11.760He's got such a great future ahead of him.
01:31:11.840 -->
01:31:12.000Yeah.
01:31:12.159 -->
01:31:14.880And hopefully he can keep going in that direction.
01:31:15.039 -->
01:31:15.279Yep.
01:31:15.439 -->
01:31:18.079And just so you know, be part of arm wrestling.
01:31:18.319 -->
01:31:18.479Sure.
01:31:18.720 -->
01:31:22.479And then and then get into arm wrestling once he's done making his mark there.
01:31:22.720 -->
01:31:23.199Yeah, yeah.
01:31:23.359 -->
01:31:24.399If he's enjoying it, man.
01:31:24.560 -->
01:31:24.880Yeah.
01:31:25.119 -->
01:31:25.279Yeah.
01:31:25.439 -->
01:31:30.239Well, I think uh we I could probably keep talking to you forever, man.
01:31:30.479 -->
01:31:34.720But um thank you for telling so much of the backstory and you know, just a lot.
01:31:34.960 -->
01:31:38.000I'm sure there's a lot of stuff in this that I well I didn't know, right?
01:31:38.079 -->
01:31:47.520So I'm sure that a lot of people are gonna be, you know, fascinated by you know the journey and you know, the passion and and projects and endeavors and all of it, man.
01:31:47.600 -->
01:31:48.880It's it's really, really cool.
01:31:49.039 -->
01:31:50.800So uh we're excited.
01:31:50.880 -->
01:31:53.760Um, I'm excited to see where East versus West is going.
01:31:53.920 -->
01:32:02.079And uh, you know, obviously this next event in uh in Arkansas, and then you know, I'm sure you guys will announce more uh the rest of the year, so it's gonna be good.
01:32:02.239 -->
01:32:02.800Oh yeah, absolutely.
01:32:03.039 -->
01:32:03.600Really, really good.
01:32:04.000 -->
01:32:11.760And just uh yep, I mean, and whatever pace you decide to to take it, I think is it it's great.
01:32:11.840 -->
01:32:18.640I mean, don't feel any pressure from anybody because um this is a sport you don't really have to do that.
01:32:18.720 -->
01:32:22.560I mean, I mean, I've had years where I couldn't train very much.
01:32:22.720 -->
01:32:24.880Yep, all I had time for was once a week.
01:32:25.119 -->
01:32:25.439Sure.
01:32:25.600 -->
01:32:27.439Um, and it it still works.
01:32:27.600 -->
01:32:29.119It it like builds on itself.
01:32:29.199 -->
01:32:30.880I mean it's it's like a compounding.
01:32:31.359 -->
01:32:31.760It really is.
01:32:31.920 -->
01:32:36.800And and and it's something that when you're in your forties, it's not too late.
01:32:36.960 -->
01:32:41.680I mean, I mean I I made more gains in my 40s than I did in my 30s for sure.
01:32:41.920 -->
01:32:42.720Isn't that interesting?
01:32:42.880 -->
01:32:43.359Yeah, yeah.
01:32:43.760 -->
01:32:44.239It's really cool.
01:32:44.319 -->
01:32:45.279I mean it's fun.
01:32:45.359 -->
01:32:50.319It's like I said, I I just I want to keep enjoying it, keep learning, you know, like that.
01:32:50.399 -->
01:32:54.640That's really where it's at, you know, and I think that I think that that I will.
01:32:54.720 -->
01:32:59.840And it's, you know, again, just going back to enjoying it, the process.
01:33:00.000 -->
01:33:00.159Yeah.
01:33:00.319 -->
01:33:00.479Right.
01:33:00.640 -->
01:33:04.640Enjoy the process and then keep learning and you know, just feeling it out.
01:33:04.720 -->
01:33:15.520But uh, yeah, I I mean I've met so many great guys like now, like getting into it and and training with so many great guys that it's been it's been a fun journey thus far, but again, it's so short, right?
01:33:15.600 -->
01:33:17.279Like it's like it's not been long.
01:33:17.359 -->
01:33:22.880And so, you know, you keep developing and and um, you know, we'll bring people along on the ride.
01:33:23.039 -->
01:33:23.840You know, it'll be fun.
01:33:24.319 -->
01:33:25.119It is fun, it's fun.
01:33:25.199 -->
01:33:26.000Well, it's good to have you.
01:33:26.239 -->
01:33:26.479Love it.
01:33:27.520 -->
01:33:28.720Yes, Alton, Utah.
01:33:29.039 -->
01:33:29.680Appreciate it, man.
01:33:29.760 -->
01:33:30.159Appreciate it.
01:33:30.319 -->
01:33:30.800Clickwise.
01:33:30.960 -->
01:33:34.720Yeah, hope hopefully you guys enjoyed that and hope you're all doing amazing.
01:33:34.800 -->
01:33:35.680For now, it's gonna be great.
01:33:35.840 -->
01:33:36.960We'll check you guys later.
01:33:37.119 -->
01:33:41.840If you enjoyed this podcast episode and would like to listen to another, click right here.
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