Serial Killer Documentary - John Wayne Gacy： A Real Life Nightmare

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On the 21st of December, 1978, police in Chicago were
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desperately trying to locate a missing teenager and had begun
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searching the home of a local maintenance contractor.
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When they executed that search warrant, they went in the
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crawl space, and the very first shovel that they dug
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they found human remains.
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The man they had in custody, 36-year-old John Wayne Gacy,
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was a popular socialite who spent his weekends dressed as
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a clown, entertaining children.
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At one point, chillingly, he says to the detectives, you know,
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clowns can get away with murder. Well, never was a
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truer word said.
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In total, Gacy the Killer Clown had tortured and killed
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33 young men over a five-year period. 27 of the
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bodies were buried right beneath his own home.
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Using other human beings, you know, inflicting pain and suffering
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and torture on another helpless human.
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Being, to me, is the essence of evil.
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The remorseless John Wayne Gacy had proved himself to be
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one of the world's most evil killers. Over the course
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of six years, John Wayne Gacy kidnapped, tortured, and brutally
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murdered 33 young men and boys in and around Chicago, Illinois.
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It was one of the most shocking sets of crimes
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in American history. The bodies of 27 of Gacy's victims
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were buried directly below the house he lived in. But
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this killer's story starts almost 40 years before. John Wayne
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Gacy was born in Chicago, Illinois, on the 17th of March, 1942.
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The second of three children, Gacy had a difficult upbringing.
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His father was an alcoholic who was reportedly both mentally
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and physically abusive to his children and their mother.
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His father spent years apparently all of Gacy's childhood, demeaning
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him and physically punishing him and telling him how stupid
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and worthless and effeminate he was.
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Gacy's childhood friend, Barry Buscelli, remembers the physical abuse he
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suffered at the hands of his father.
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If Johnny was two minutes late, no food. So a
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lot of times Johnny ate at our house and stayed
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at our house overnight. He used to take Johnny when
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he was sitting at the kitchen table and he would
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take his fist and hit Johnny in the face.
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The father is a very significant figure in the genesis
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of Gacy's terrible deeds. For, to my mind, Gacy was
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always trying to satisfy his father, whom.
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He never could.
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He was beaten repeatedly by his father, with belts, with brooms.
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At one stage, he was knocked out by him.
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These people grow up with such a malignant view of
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the world and of human relationships and feeling that human
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relationships are not based on love and trust and respect,
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you know, that they're all based on exploitation and cruelty
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and inflicting pain.
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Gacy was a sickly child. He suffered from a heart condition,
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limiting his involvement in sports activities and consequently alienating him
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from his peers. Aged 11, an accident in a playground
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led to his teenage years being blighted by blackouts and
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hospital visits.
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At that time, the swings were wooden base swings with
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heavy chains coming down. Johnny went to grab it and
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the swing clipped him right across the forehead and knocked
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him to the ground.
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By 1966, 24-year-old Gacy was married and had relocated to
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the city of Waterloo, 300 miles west of Chicago, in
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the neighboring state of Iowa.
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Well, Gacy got married, and life from the outside appeared
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to be relatively normal. He had quite a good job.
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His wife had two children. So they appeared to be
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the typical cereal box American nuclear family. And Gacy wasn't
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just a regular family man. He was also quite active
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in the local chamber of commerce, and he played quite
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an active role, and he was a real figure in
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the local community.
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Gacy had started to build the perfect life for himself,
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but he was concealing a dark secret. He developed an
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unhealthy sexual interest in young boys.
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There was a son of a fellow Gacy member who
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he lured back to his home, and he sexually assaulted him.
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So he's abusing power. He's getting into these positions of
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trust and he's taking advantage. And that's a theme that's
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going to continue for him.
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And then when the kid revealed this to his father
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and Gacy was arrested for it, Gacy hired another teenager
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to intimidate this kid, to lure this kid into some
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remote place and spray mace in his eyes and beat
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him up and against testifying in Gacy's case.
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Despite Gacy's efforts, his victim still testified, but there wasn't
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conclusive proof of an attack. Therefore, police were only able
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to charge him with sodomy of the 15-year-old boy.
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He pleaded guilty to one count of sodomy, thinking he
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would get a very, very minimal sentence, but the judge
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threw the book at him, and he was sentenced to
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10 years in prison.
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On the 3rd of December 1968, Gacy was sent to
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Anamosa State Penitentiary. Whilst in jail, Gacy's wife divorced him.
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A further blow was dealt when his father died and
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he was denied permission to attend the funeral.
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Given the perfect nature of Gacy's ability to groom whomever
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he came into contact with, within a matter of months...
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Gacy had become head cook at the prison, had convinced
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the staff that he was an absolutely ideal person. What's more,
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then convinced the parole board that he was no danger
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to anybody, and so served barely 18 months of the
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10 years of his original sentence.
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In June 1970, now aged 28, John Wayne Gacy was
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released from prison and returned home to Chicago. His friends,
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family and neighbours were entirely unaware of what had taken
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place while he'd been living over 300 miles away in Iowa.
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His background was not looked into in any way, I
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think partly because he didn't go into any line of work.
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in which any kind of background check would have been necessary.
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You know, he began his own business. I mean, none
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of his acquaintance was even remotely aware of his criminal background.
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In June 1972, Gacy got married for a second time,
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and he and his new bride set up home in
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the Chicago suburbs at 8213 West Somerdale Avenue. a house
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that would eventually become one of the most infamous addresses
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in America. Six years later, in December 1978, ten miles
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from Gacy's house, 15-year-old Des Plaines resident Rob Piest was
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reported missing by his mother. Detectives Mike Albrecht and Dave
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Hackmeister began to investigate the teen's disappearance.
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Rob Piest was like a stellar kid. I mean, he
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was the kind of kid that anyone would want as
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a son. Never been in trouble, never had any inclination
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to run away, was a good student, very, very much
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out of character. He would turn up missing. So that
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caught our attention, obviously.
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And at that time, in the late 70s, there was
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a lot of stuff going on with the hippie movement,
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all that kind of stuff. But he made a determination
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very quickly that this was not a normal quote-unquote runaway.
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Didn't have any girlfriend problems, was not involved in drugs
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or anything like that, just an all-American good kid.
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At the time of his disappearance, Peace was working at
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a pharmacy in Des Plaines.
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So he had told an employee and actually his mother
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that he was going to go talk to a contractor
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about a job. And he then went out the back
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door and he wasn't seen any time thereafter.
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Rob Peace seemed to have just vanished off the face
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of the earth. the two detectives desperately needed to track
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down the contractor who was probably the last person to
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see him. Their search would lead them to the door
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of a 36-year-old man by the name of John Wayne Gacy.
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He'd divorced his second wife two years previously and was
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now running a successful business called PDM Contractors. Gacy would
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often employ young men, one of whom was Tony Antonucci.
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At the time when I met him, I was about
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16 years old, And of course, like a lot of
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16 year olds, I wanted to get a job so
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I could afford to have my car. My first impressions
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were that he was basically a likable guy, kind of jovial,
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liked to joke around, you know, appeared very normal.
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Gacy seemed, in many ways, like the perfect boss.
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Sometimes at three o'clock in the afternoon, you know, John
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would say, hey, it's a nice day out, let's knock
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off early and, you know, have some fun or do
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something and all normal stuff, you know, just kind of
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like you didn't expect, you know, your boss to, you know,
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be the one that wanted to knock off early.
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Another young man who'd come looking for a job was
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15-year-old Rob Piest, but he hadn't been seen since meeting
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with Gacy at the pharmacy where he worked. Detectives Dave
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Hackmeister and Mike Albrecht were investigating.
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We ran a records check on him, and as it
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turns out, he had a fairly lengthy background. He had
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spent some time in Iowa for sodomy, and so it
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was sexual crimes basically against children.
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Concerned by Gacy's criminal record, the police obtained a warrant
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to search his home.
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The warrant consisted of three facts. The first fact is
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that John Wayne Gacy, in fact, was at the pharmacy
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the night Rob Peace went missing. And fact two, that
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Rob Peace had told people that he was going to
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see a contractor regarding a job. And fact three, his
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criminal background. So on those three facts, they were able
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to obtain a search warrant.
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On the 13th of December 1978, police conducted their first
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search of Gacy's home, finding a number of suspicious items.
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They recovered various items of pornography. They recovered some books
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that were titled Pretty Boys Must Die. They also recovered
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driver's licenses of other young people, and they did a
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check on those driver's licenses. it was determined that those
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kids were also reported missing.
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Initially, we were hoping to find Rob Pease alive someplace,
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and it didn't take long to realize that probably was
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not going to happen.
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Another item recovered was a high school ring, which had
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belonged to missing 19-year-old John Schick, last seen in January 1977.
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Further investigation discovered that two of Gacy's employees had been
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reported missing. 17-year-old John Butkovich, last seen in July 1975,
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and Gregory Godzik, also 17 years old, missing since December 1976.
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It was an.
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Evolution as we went along. I think it was after
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that search warrant, we're pretty confident there's at least five
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or six victims that were associated with Casey that hadn't
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been seen.
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But with no evidence or bodies, the police could not
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make an arrest. They decided to begin surveillance on Gacy.
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We just said, wherever you go, we're going. If Gacy
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went into a public place, we were going to follow
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him and see what he was up to.
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Throughout this overt surveillance, we became fairly friendly with John
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Wayne Gacy. He knew we were following him. He tried
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to be cordial with us. In fact, he initiated conversations
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with us.
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He'd play games with the police. He'd go up to
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their car and say, hi, do you guys want some marijuana?
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Or just something stupid like that.
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He goes into Moose Lodge, and Mike and I, my
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partner and I, said, we're going to go in right
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along with Gacy, but we'll sit at a different table.
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All of a sudden, the waitress comes over with a
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couple of beers and places a beers in front of
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us and says, it's on that gentleman over there. We
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look over at John, and John gives us a hi sign, and.
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We wave back. Very confident, cocky. Kept on bragging about
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all property and how much of a businessman he was
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and how well connected he was.
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John Wayne Gacy had a psychopathic personality. So he really
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does seek out power and he seeks out control. And
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he likes playing with people. He's a bit of a
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puppet master. And I think that was driving his behavior.
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Everyone that we.
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Talked to just loved John Wayne Gacy. His neighbors, his co-workers,
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all of his associates, they loved the guy. And we
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could see that. I mean, the way he was interacting with.
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Us was basically the same.
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And my partner and I would have to, on many occasions,
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remind one another, hey, listen, you know, this guy is dangerous.
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Gacy was considered an upstanding key member of his small community.
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He was popular and involved in politics. At weekends, he
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would even dress as a clown and perform for children
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at parties and at local hospitals.
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The fact that Gacy... have this other persona as Pogo
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the Clown. Professional clowns usually, you know, will paint their smiles,
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you know, with sort of gentle, circular things around their lips.
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Gacy's smile looks like bat wings. There's just something horrifically
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sinister and monstrous about this figure of Pogo. Just an
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element that raises Gacy to the level of a kind
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of mythic American monster.
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At one point, chillingly, he says to the detectives, you know,
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clowns can get away with murder. Well, never was a
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00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:41.519
truer word said. But it took some time for those
243
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:45.559
detectives to fully comprehend that here was a man who
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00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:48.240
was capable of murder, and more than one.
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00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:52.899
As Mike and Dave continued with their surveillance, detectives back
246
00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:55.559
at the station were trying to get another warrant to
247
00:15:55.620 --> 00:16:00.200
search Gacy's house. they'd received some disturbing new evidence while
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00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:01.600
questioning his colleagues.
249
00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.580
They're young kids, you know, 17, 18, 19 years old.
250
00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.919
And at times, Gacy had ordered these young kids to
251
00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:13.799
go down into his crawl space of his home and
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00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.919
dig trenches. And he had told them that there was
253
00:16:17.090 --> 00:16:21.450
a sewage issue and that he needed the trenches dug
254
00:16:21.809 --> 00:16:25.909
so he could alleviate that situation. But they said that
255
00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:28.809
it happened several times and that there was an odor
256
00:16:28.850 --> 00:16:32.350
down there that was just unbelievable. So now we're starting
257
00:16:32.389 --> 00:16:35.370
to believe, hey, is it possible? I know it sounds crazy,
258
00:16:35.490 --> 00:16:38.029
but is it possible he could have buried someone in
259
00:16:38.049 --> 00:16:38.740
the crawlspace?
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00:16:39.379 --> 00:16:43.200
He gets other people unwittingly involved in his offending and
261
00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.419
they don't know anything of what's going on. And I
262
00:16:46.460 --> 00:16:49.860
think that's what gets him gratification. The fact that he
263
00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:52.620
has such power over other people, that they're not joining
264
00:16:52.659 --> 00:16:55.019
the dots together and that he's able to hide in
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00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:55.740
plain sight.
266
00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.840
Mike and Dave continued to follow the popular contractor, but
267
00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:03.750
they had a plan to force Gacy's hand.
268
00:17:05.210 --> 00:17:08.089
We were on the surveillance for about seven days, and
269
00:17:08.190 --> 00:17:11.829
as the surveillance progressed, what we found out was that
270
00:17:11.869 --> 00:17:16.650
he had this huge core support of friends and family
271
00:17:16.730 --> 00:17:18.849
and coworkers and such, and.
272
00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:20.250
That that is really what was.
273
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:26.220
the barrier between us and Gacy. So we developed a
274
00:17:26.259 --> 00:17:29.440
plan for the investigators to put some pressure on all
275
00:17:29.500 --> 00:17:33.809
these people that were supporting him. And slowly, they started
276
00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:38.630
peeling back from Gacy. And we were feeding Gacy information
277
00:17:38.750 --> 00:17:42.970
that they're possibly looking to execute a second search warrant.
278
00:17:43.450 --> 00:17:47.960
He became more and more desperate. And the last day
279
00:17:47.980 --> 00:17:51.369
he It was about midnight or 1 in the morning.
280
00:17:51.589 --> 00:17:55.430
He contacted his attorneys and met his attorneys in their
281
00:17:55.529 --> 00:17:59.619
office in Park Ridge. At that point, Mike and I
282
00:17:59.670 --> 00:18:03.359
are outside, and we see the attorneys waving us into
283
00:18:03.380 --> 00:18:06.759
the building. It was very uncharacteristic of the attorneys to
284
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:07.180
do this.
285
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:08.819
The first thing they were telling us, though, was to
286
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.259
park your cars in front of Gacy's and don't let
287
00:18:11.299 --> 00:18:13.150
him out. If he tries to move, shoot his tires out.
288
00:18:13.490 --> 00:18:14.450
You know, what's going on here?
289
00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:18.309
It was very obvious to us that the attorneys were
290
00:18:18.809 --> 00:18:20.150
Absolutely scared to death.
291
00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:21.089
Petrified.
292
00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:22.990
They're pacing up and down. They won't take their eyes
293
00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:26.509
off of Gacy. And that pretty much solidified the fact
294
00:18:26.589 --> 00:18:28.930
to us that he had confessed to his attorneys about
295
00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:31.049
at least a couple, three murders.
296
00:18:32.190 --> 00:18:35.690
Dave and Mike knew that Gacy was beginning to buckle.
297
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:39.539
They continued to trail him as he left his attorney's office.
298
00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:43.740
So we follow Gacy and Gacy is driving like a madman.
299
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:47.619
and he drives to the Shell gas station where he
300
00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:50.900
did all of his business. He goes in, and we
301
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.869
see a transaction happen in the gas station.
302
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:58.329
It was very emotional, shaking his hand, almost on his side, hugging,
303
00:18:58.369 --> 00:19:00.690
that kind of thing, and this is so out of
304
00:19:00.730 --> 00:19:01.609
context for Gacy.
305
00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:04.670
So when Gacy comes back out, jumps in his car,
306
00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:07.660
and takes off, I go back in the gas station,
307
00:19:07.859 --> 00:19:10.619
and when I go in there, they throw a couple
308
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.349
of bags of marijuana at me, and they say, hey, listen,
309
00:19:14.390 --> 00:19:16.930
we didn't buy this. We didn't ask for it. Gacy
310
00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:17.720
just gave it to us.
311
00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:22.410
As Gacy's behavior grew more and more erratic, the two
312
00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:25.819
detectives at least now had a reason to apprehend him.
313
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.480
We make a decision at that point to arrest him
314
00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:32.299
for the drug transaction that happened at the Shell gas station.
315
00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:35.460
So we cut off the car, pull Gacy out of
316
00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:37.420
the car, and arrest him for that drug transaction.
317
00:19:43.549 --> 00:19:44.589
Devon and Milwaukee.
318
00:19:45.269 --> 00:19:48.569
This was Gacy's final location of freedom.
319
00:19:49.309 --> 00:19:49.630
That's it.
320
00:19:49.630 --> 00:19:51.390
He was never free from this point on.
321
00:19:51.789 --> 00:19:54.670
Grabbed him out of the car. He was all whining
322
00:19:54.690 --> 00:19:56.039
to us, why are you doing this to me and
323
00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.579
all that. That's where it ended. So technically he was
324
00:20:00.619 --> 00:20:05.099
arrested for marijuana possession and delivery. And then we took
325
00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:05.720
him to the station.
326
00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:11.430
While in custody, Gacy told detectives he was experiencing chest
327
00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:14.809
pains and was taken to a local hospital as a precaution,
328
00:20:15.289 --> 00:20:17.650
but he was just trying to buy some more time.
329
00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:21.390
The police had obtained the second warrant they'd been so
330
00:20:21.509 --> 00:20:27.470
desperate for. On the 21st of December, 1978, they searched
331
00:20:27.529 --> 00:20:31.369
Gacy's home on West Somerdale Avenue for the second time.
332
00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:34.380
When they executed that search warrant, they went in the
333
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.960
crawl space, and the very first shovel that they dug,
334
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:39.579
they found human remains.
335
00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:45.309
Police had finally unearthed the secrets that Gacy had thought
336
00:20:45.509 --> 00:20:47.029
would stay buried forever.
337
00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.490
So they immediately called me, let me know that there
338
00:20:52.529 --> 00:20:54.509
was human remains in the crawl space, and at that
339
00:20:54.549 --> 00:20:58.450
time I arrested John Gacy for murder. Gacy says he
340
00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:02.369
wants to confess, but really he wants to confess to
341
00:21:02.390 --> 00:21:05.990
the surveillance team, both myself and my partner and the
342
00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:09.539
other team. And now, all of a sudden, he's got
343
00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.960
an audience again, and he's on top of the world.
344
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.859
And he knows he can't get out of it at
345
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:19.309
this point, and so he might as well just divulge
346
00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:21.089
everything that actually happened.
347
00:21:21.589 --> 00:21:24.849
Gacy told detectives he was willing to draw a map
348
00:21:25.170 --> 00:21:27.230
of the burial site beneath his home.
349
00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:29.980
I gave him a pen and He started right up,
350
00:21:30.019 --> 00:21:31.809
he squared it off in the thing, and he started, well,
351
00:21:31.829 --> 00:21:33.750
this was a double, and this was a triple, and
352
00:21:33.769 --> 00:21:35.920
this was the first guy with an X on it.
353
00:21:36.630 --> 00:21:41.349
Went around the whole crawl space with these places where
354
00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:44.670
the body was buried. I mean, they were digging with
355
00:21:44.710 --> 00:21:49.460
spoons and everything, but they obviously identified where all the
356
00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:52.559
bodies were, and they did an overlay of where the
357
00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:55.480
bodies were actually found compared to that diagram that he made,
358
00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:58.839
and it was unbelievable. It was right on the money.
359
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:04.440
In total, 27 bodies were discovered in Gacy's crawlspace. It
360
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.069
wouldn't take long for news of this horrific discovery to
361
00:22:08.109 --> 00:22:09.849
filter out to the wider world.
362
00:22:10.750 --> 00:22:14.750
Then the arrests came down, and that was the headline
363
00:22:14.809 --> 00:22:17.230
on the local papers, how many bodies they took out
364
00:22:17.250 --> 00:22:18.029
of Gacy's basement.
365
00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:22.250
Well, you know, when Gacy's crimes were uncovered, he entered
366
00:22:22.309 --> 00:22:26.750
into the record books, you know, as America's most prolific
367
00:22:26.789 --> 00:22:35.880
serial murderer. The notion that this, you know, pudgy, normal-seeming, decent, regular,
368
00:22:36.049 --> 00:22:41.769
ordinary guy was living in this horror house, you know,
369
00:22:41.829 --> 00:22:46.730
that was just suffused with the stench of death, and
370
00:22:46.769 --> 00:22:52.160
that there were the rotting bodies of 27 young men
371
00:22:52.180 --> 00:22:57.509
in this crawl space, bringing home and torturing them. young
372
00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:00.829
boys right in the midst of all his neighbors and
373
00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:02.690
then going off to work the next day.
374
00:23:03.329 --> 00:23:06.890
When we booked him for murder, we asked Gacy where
375
00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:09.730
he was born. And Gacy looked at us and said,
376
00:23:10.230 --> 00:23:12.930
I was born in a state of confusion. And he
377
00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:14.960
smiled like that and we captured the forum.
378
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:19.599
In total, Gacy confessed to the murder of 33 young
379
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:22.099
men and boys between 1972 and 1978. Gacy preyed on victims.
380
00:23:27.859 --> 00:23:31.349
Who he knew were not necessarily going to be missed
381
00:23:31.509 --> 00:23:37.309
by any family members. Rootless and homeless teenage boys who
382
00:23:37.349 --> 00:23:40.849
had no families that were going to miss them or
383
00:23:40.910 --> 00:23:42.230
care about their disappearance.
384
00:23:42.809 --> 00:23:44.710
At that time, in the late 70s, kids were running
385
00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:47.430
away all the time. And a lot of these kids
386
00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:49.359
were reported missing, but there was no follow-up.
387
00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:53.359
As it turns out, he had buried 27 young kids
388
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:56.400
in the crawlspace. He buried one of the young kids
389
00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:59.900
outside in his backyard, and he didn't have any room
390
00:23:59.940 --> 00:24:03.980
left on his property, so he threw five remaining victims
391
00:24:04.059 --> 00:24:05.089
in the Des Plaines River.
392
00:24:06.049 --> 00:24:08.589
One of the bodies found floating in the Des Plaines
393
00:24:08.690 --> 00:24:13.410
River in April 1979 was that of Rob Piest, the
394
00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:17.910
15-year-old boy whose disappearance had ultimately led to Gacy's downfall.
395
00:24:18.670 --> 00:24:20.859
He was very descriptive on what he had done with
396
00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:21.420
Rob Piest.
397
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:25.440
Rob P's mom was waiting for him in the front
398
00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:28.779
parking lot, and Rob said to his mom, hey, I'm
399
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.599
going to talk to a contractor about a job. I'll
400
00:24:30.619 --> 00:24:34.309
be right back. He goes back in the pharmacy. Gacy
401
00:24:34.900 --> 00:24:39.329
is in the back parking lot, the alleyway. And as
402
00:24:39.369 --> 00:24:43.210
Gacy's leaving, Rob follows him outside and says, excuse me, sir,
403
00:24:43.589 --> 00:24:46.490
I understand that you hire young kids, and I'm really
404
00:24:46.529 --> 00:24:50.250
interested in having a different job. And Gacy says, well,
405
00:24:50.529 --> 00:24:52.410
jump in the car. I'll have you fill out an application.
406
00:24:53.150 --> 00:24:59.349
So Gacy actually drives Piest willingly to Gacy's house. While there,
407
00:25:00.630 --> 00:25:06.119
Gacy starts showing Piest some little tricks of the trade
408
00:25:06.130 --> 00:25:08.519
of being a clown. He shows a couple of card tricks.
409
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:12.279
And the last trick that he shows Piest is the
410
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:17.779
handcuff trick. Gacy actually handcuffs himself and turns around and
411
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:20.859
struggles with the handcuffs and then turns back, and he
412
00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:24.700
holds the handcuffs up. And Piest is pretty amazed at that,
413
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:26.200
and he said, well, that's neat.
414
00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:26.880
How'd you do that?
415
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:30.890
So Gacy says, well, here, you handcuff yourself, and I'll
416
00:25:30.910 --> 00:25:34.710
show you how to do that. So Piest handcuffs himself,
417
00:25:35.450 --> 00:25:38.869
and he struggles, and he struggles, and he struggles. And
418
00:25:38.930 --> 00:25:41.609
he looks at Gacy, and he says, now, what's the
419
00:25:41.650 --> 00:25:44.839
trick to this? And Gacy reaches in his pocket and
420
00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:47.039
pulls out a key to the handcuffs, and he says,
421
00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:49.480
the trick is you've got to have this key.
422
00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:55.589
This handcuffed trick was part of an horrific yet clinical M.O.
423
00:25:56.529 --> 00:25:59.549
Gacy, throughout all of the 33 killings, had developed a
424
00:25:59.609 --> 00:26:01.029
method of killing these young kids.
425
00:26:01.609 --> 00:26:06.859
He would pick up these victims. Some were kids who
426
00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:10.960
worked for him, but most were teenage runaways. You know,
427
00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:14.460
and bringing them back to his house and giving them drinks.
428
00:26:15.029 --> 00:26:20.369
He would sort of trick them into handcuffing themselves or
429
00:26:20.450 --> 00:26:21.289
being handcuffed.
430
00:26:22.470 --> 00:26:28.150
Gacy would use chloroform to subdue his victims. Chloroform's an
431
00:26:28.230 --> 00:26:32.230
old-fashioned anesthetic, really, so it gets into your lungs and
432
00:26:32.269 --> 00:26:34.789
it just renders you unconscious very effectively.
433
00:26:35.569 --> 00:26:37.089
He did what he called a rope trick.
434
00:26:37.849 --> 00:26:40.589
And when he had these young kids incapacitated like that,
435
00:26:40.630 --> 00:26:43.670
he would slip a rope over their neck, a knotted
436
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.900
rope like a loop, and then put the stick in
437
00:26:46.940 --> 00:26:49.859
the back, like a tourniquet, and he would slowly turn
438
00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:53.480
the tourniquet. And he said he had it perfected so
439
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.880
well that he knew exactly how the body would react
440
00:26:56.900 --> 00:26:57.990
to each half turn.
441
00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:00.950
Putting a ligature around the neck, the first thing it's
442
00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:03.289
going to block is the blood vessels, so it prevents
443
00:27:03.349 --> 00:27:06.049
blood getting to the brain, prevents it getting back to
444
00:27:06.069 --> 00:27:09.150
the body from the brain. It's going to be very uncomfortable,
445
00:27:09.470 --> 00:27:12.029
and it can even render you unconscious in a small
446
00:27:12.069 --> 00:27:12.789
number of seconds.
447
00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.779
And he went into detail on how he would torture
448
00:27:16.819 --> 00:27:20.400
these young men. And he, in fact, did double and
449
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:24.259
triple murders. He would incapacitate two or three people at
450
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:26.799
a time and kill one person in front of the
451
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.720
other victims and then continue to kill the other victims.
452
00:27:30.789 --> 00:27:33.769
And he seemed to be pretty proud of that. We
453
00:27:33.849 --> 00:27:35.990
used that to our advantage to keep him talking, and
454
00:27:36.069 --> 00:27:40.890
he described every killing to a T, exactly how it happened,
455
00:27:41.049 --> 00:27:42.849
all 33.
456
00:27:42.849 --> 00:27:46.509
As the news broke across the country, one shocked viewer
457
00:27:46.569 --> 00:27:53.430
who'd unknowingly experienced Gacy's MO firsthand was his ex-employee, Tony Antonucci.
458
00:27:54.019 --> 00:27:58.220
Whilst working for PDM, Tony had accidentally got a nail
459
00:27:58.500 --> 00:27:59.359
stuck in his foot.
460
00:28:00.259 --> 00:28:03.880
John took me and I got a tetanus shot and
461
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:04.559
took me home.
462
00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:09.299
And he came over later that evening to.
463
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:11.500
Check on if I was okay or that was the,
464
00:28:12.619 --> 00:28:15.619
but he also had, you know, some wine and we
465
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:17.859
were drinking and he was kind of joking around. It
466
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:21.400
was probably 10, 10.30 at night. I was a high
467
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:24.259
school wrestler. And he said, oh, you know, you're a
468
00:28:24.259 --> 00:28:27.769
big wrestler guy. And he started wrestling around with me.
469
00:28:28.230 --> 00:28:31.190
He got my left arm and he got it behind
470
00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:33.380
me and I felt him put a handcuff on it.
471
00:28:35.890 --> 00:28:38.869
I kept flailing my right hand around so that he
472
00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:42.259
couldn't get my right arm, but he did. Eventually, he
473
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.279
did get a hold of my right arm, and he
474
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:47.779
knocked me down to the floor with my hands behind me.
475
00:28:48.500 --> 00:28:51.500
He left the room for a few minutes, and I
476
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:55.630
realized that if I pulled really hard on my right hand,
477
00:28:56.190 --> 00:28:59.710
that I could pull my hand through the handcuff.
478
00:29:00.029 --> 00:29:00.769
I could get it out.
479
00:29:01.609 --> 00:29:04.950
By pretending he was still handcuffed, Tony was able to
480
00:29:05.009 --> 00:29:09.059
catch Gacy unawares when he returned and turn the situation
481
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:09.980
to his advantage.
482
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:14.470
I took the handcuff that I had gotten out of,
483
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.299
and I handcuffed him on one of his wrists, and
484
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.700
I reached into his pocket, got the key, and I
485
00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:26.009
handcuffed him behind his back, laying face down. He goes,
486
00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:28.390
you're the only one that not only got out of
487
00:29:28.410 --> 00:29:32.250
the handcuffs, you got them on me. And I didn't
488
00:29:32.269 --> 00:29:34.150
know what that meant. I thought that this was some
489
00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:35.269
type of test that.
490
00:29:35.190 --> 00:29:36.450
He had performed before.
491
00:29:37.210 --> 00:29:40.940
And I let him stay handcuffed for a or 15
492
00:29:40.940 --> 00:29:44.039
minutes before I let him out of the handcuffs. And,
493
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:46.200
you know, he had previously agreed that when I let
494
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:47.119
him up, he would leave.
495
00:29:47.950 --> 00:29:48.410
And he did.
496
00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.410
Tony had no idea just how close he'd come to
497
00:29:52.450 --> 00:29:55.289
being another victim of this deadly killer.
498
00:29:55.789 --> 00:29:58.440
I did not fear for my life and Not fearing
499
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:02.539
for my life and not panicking is probably what saved
500
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.400
my life. Because I'm sure if when I got out
501
00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:07.650
of the handcuffs, if I tried to run for the
502
00:30:07.670 --> 00:30:10.869
door or do something, you know, he was 33 years
503
00:30:10.970 --> 00:30:15.630
old and very strong, and I was 16 or 17.
504
00:30:15.630 --> 00:30:18.369
I'm sure he could have overpowered me if he knew
505
00:30:18.410 --> 00:30:18.970
he had to.
506
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:23.359
Tony continued working for PDM for a few months after
507
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.259
the attack and only reported the incident after Gacy's arrest.
508
00:30:27.740 --> 00:30:30.339
By the time the case went to trial, police had
509
00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:34.130
managed to identify the remains of 22 of the victims.
510
00:30:34.650 --> 00:30:38.869
So with Gacy, we have around 30 bodies, different states
511
00:30:38.910 --> 00:30:43.029
of decomposition, some of which have been there for many years. Forensically,
512
00:30:43.089 --> 00:30:46.259
that sort of scene is a nightmare. You've got so
513
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:47.380
many different things.
514
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:47.640
To dig up.
515
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.859
It's a very... It's very hard work. It will involve
516
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:54.319
a lot of people and a lot of time.
517
00:30:55.079 --> 00:31:01.609
Seven of Gacy's victims have never been identified. This close-knit
518
00:31:01.660 --> 00:31:05.890
community on the outskirts of Chicago was baffled beyond belief
519
00:31:05.950 --> 00:31:09.089
that such a monster had lived amongst them for so long.
520
00:31:10.130 --> 00:31:14.170
One of the effects that learning about these crimes has
521
00:31:14.289 --> 00:31:18.109
on the public is that it sort of reduces you
522
00:31:18.809 --> 00:31:23.430
to a state of childlike awe and terror and wonder.
523
00:31:23.450 --> 00:31:28.650
You know, you can imagine all these middle American suburbanites. Suddenly,
524
00:31:28.670 --> 00:31:34.759
here are the authorities bringing out the decomposed remains of
525
00:31:34.819 --> 00:31:37.940
young men that had been stored in the crawlspace of
526
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:38.980
your neighbor's house.
527
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.279
A horrified public were both shocked and outraged by the
528
00:31:44.339 --> 00:31:48.430
crimes Gacy had committed. As the state prepared their case,
529
00:31:48.829 --> 00:31:51.569
they were determined to ensure that the man who'd been
530
00:31:51.609 --> 00:31:55.309
held in such high esteem by his local community would
531
00:31:55.369 --> 00:32:01.700
pay for his crimes in full. The trial of John
532
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:05.859
Wayne Gacy began on February 6th, 1980, at the Cook
533
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:10.299
County Criminal Courts building in Chicago. At the time, Illinois
534
00:32:10.339 --> 00:32:15.269
still had the death penalty. Gacy's defence team were pleading insanity.
535
00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:21.180
It was an interesting trial. And what was so fascinating
536
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.480
about it was they had so many different psychiatrists saying
537
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:27.799
so many different things that they all came up with
538
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:33.819
different diagnoses, which really goes towards this picture of this
539
00:32:34.099 --> 00:32:37.940
non-intact human being, this bits and pieces of person.
540
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:42.740
During the five-week trial, the prosecution were desperate to prove
541
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.799
that Gacy was fully responsible for his actions.
542
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.400
There's a difference between psychopathy and mental illness. Psychopaths are rational.
543
00:32:50.740 --> 00:32:52.900
They know what they're doing, and they know what they
544
00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:55.440
do is wrong, but they decide to do it anyway.
545
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:58.039
So he was really culpable for his crimes.
546
00:32:58.940 --> 00:33:03.180
He was vicious. He was evil. He was not insane
547
00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:05.180
in any way. He knew exactly what he was doing.
548
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.859
And he killed these people for self-preservation because he was
549
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:13.720
so well-liked politically and business-wise, he couldn't have his public
550
00:33:13.779 --> 00:33:15.640
out that he was taking advantage of these kids.
551
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.609
One of the prosecution witnesses was Gacy's former employee, Tony Antonucci,
552
00:33:21.829 --> 00:33:24.930
who'd been attacked by the 37-year-old contractor.
553
00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:28.230
I saw him in court, and he was off to
554
00:33:28.289 --> 00:33:34.589
my left, sitting at the table where the defense attorneys are, and.
555
00:33:34.589 --> 00:33:36.269
He just stared straight forward.
556
00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:39.779
He was fairly far away. I might have caught his
557
00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:45.299
eye on occasion in the courtroom, but I was pretty
558
00:33:45.339 --> 00:33:47.980
nervous to be on it. a witness on a trial
559
00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:52.349
of that significance, even at that age, in my early 20s.
560
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:56.720
On the 13th of March, 1980, the jury had made
561
00:33:56.779 --> 00:33:59.740
their decision on the fate of John Wayne Gacy.
562
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:03.599
It didn't take long for them to find him guilty.
563
00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:07.630
I think it took maybe less than three hours, which
564
00:34:07.750 --> 00:34:11.690
was amazing. And then he was found guilty.
565
00:34:12.510 --> 00:34:17.530
It was kind of amazing how fast everything went. When
566
00:34:17.550 --> 00:34:19.829
you look at other trials that I've gone on, this
567
00:34:19.889 --> 00:34:21.650
trial went extremely fast.
568
00:34:22.429 --> 00:34:24.969
In the final moments of the trial, one of the prosecutors,
569
00:34:24.989 --> 00:34:30.760
William Kunkel, called him a ruthless, sadistic killing machine, and
570
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:32.590
I think that's a pretty apt description.
571
00:34:33.860 --> 00:34:37.960
Judge Louis B. Garippo sentenced Gacy to death. He was
572
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:42.219
immediately taken to the Menard Correctional Center, Illinois, where he
573
00:34:42.260 --> 00:34:46.389
would remain on death row for 14 years. Whilst in jail,
574
00:34:46.409 --> 00:34:49.739
he took up painting, selling his artwork for profit.
575
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.739
Even when he was behind bars, he continued to control
576
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:58.400
and manipulate people. He produced several paintings, several works of art,
577
00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:03.599
which he sold, and he maintained a legacy even after
578
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:06.980
his death through those paintings. So he was still in
579
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:09.590
control when he was behind bars. He still had power
580
00:35:10.030 --> 00:35:12.489
over other people, and he was still able to make
581
00:35:12.570 --> 00:35:13.809
choices and decisions.
582
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.400
The profits he gained from these paintings resulted in the
583
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:21.280
government suing him for his earnings. Lawyer Karen Conte took
584
00:35:21.380 --> 00:35:23.519
on Gacy's case against the state.
585
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:28.219
Gacy liked to paint, and he was a terrible, terrible painter.
586
00:35:28.820 --> 00:35:32.409
And he painted horrible things like skulls and clowns and
587
00:35:32.530 --> 00:35:35.510
creepy things like that. But people bought them, and they
588
00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:38.849
paid $ 200 a shot for him to paint these ugly pictures.
589
00:35:39.219 --> 00:35:41.019
So that's the first thing he wanted to talk to
590
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:43.389
us about, but we went down there knowing that what
591
00:35:43.429 --> 00:35:45.389
we wanted to do was represent him in the death penalty.
592
00:35:46.329 --> 00:35:49.170
What was surprising was he looked and acted just like
593
00:35:49.230 --> 00:35:52.849
anybody else, like your favorite uncle, like your next-door neighbor.
594
00:35:53.769 --> 00:35:56.139
And if you think about it, that's probably why he
595
00:35:56.179 --> 00:36:00.480
got away with killing so many boys and men, because he.
596
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:01.199
Didn't look evil.
597
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:05.159
You could not reconcile what he did with the man
598
00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:05.960
you were talking to.
599
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:10.059
Karen was a firm opponent of the death penalty and
600
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:14.019
represented Gacy during his final appeals against the sentence.
601
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.320
Over the years, Gacy had numerous appeals, and our system
602
00:36:18.380 --> 00:36:21.420
allows that. Appeals in the federal court, appeals in the
603
00:36:21.460 --> 00:36:25.440
state court. By the time that Gacy had his execution
604
00:36:25.460 --> 00:36:28.079
date set, we were out of traditional appeals.
605
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:35.199
There are certain serial killers, even staunch anti-death penalty advocates,
606
00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:40.559
would not protest against the execution of somebody like Casey.
607
00:36:41.179 --> 00:36:45.480
If he felt any twinge of feeling sorry, it was
608
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:48.780
only feeling sorry for himself. You know, these people are
609
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:53.500
possessed of this incredibly malignant narcissism. The only thing that
610
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:56.699
they are capable of feeling anything for is themselves and
611
00:36:56.739 --> 00:36:57.429
their own needs.
612
00:36:57.929 --> 00:37:00.269
When you have a client who has committed these horrific acts,
613
00:37:00.269 --> 00:37:03.989
33 murders, No court is going to want to let
614
00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:07.329
him out. No court is going to want to change
615
00:37:07.809 --> 00:37:12.030
execution to life in prison because it's politically a disaster.
616
00:37:12.820 --> 00:37:16.840
Gacy had to be executed. And no matter what we alleged,
617
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.719
even if we had really, really good arguments, I don't
618
00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:22.139
think anyone would have listened because it was John Gacy.
619
00:37:23.019 --> 00:37:27.360
In a CBS TV interview filmed in Menard Correctional Center
620
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:32.219
in May 1992, Gacy recanted his confession and tried to
621
00:37:32.260 --> 00:37:35.179
deny that he was guilty of any of the murders.
622
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.090
He claimed that he was a victim of circumstance and
623
00:37:38.469 --> 00:37:43.030
clearly innocent. Now, that was balderdash. He was guilty of sin,
624
00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:48.849
but nevertheless, it just proved what an extraordinary man he was.
625
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:53.780
And throughout the interview, you can see the interviewer looking
626
00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:58.920
more and more astounded by Gacy's relaxation. He didn't look nervous.
627
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:05.179
He looked absolutely composed, relaxed, if anything, a little angry.
628
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.019
Why am I being put through this?
629
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:08.199
It's not fair.
630
00:38:08.980 --> 00:38:11.590
It was a pure accident. I never did it.
631
00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:15.559
We knew it was his last ditch effort. You know,
632
00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:17.659
everything else failed. He thought he could get away with,
633
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.210
you know, insanity plea, and.
634
00:38:20.139 --> 00:38:20.760
That didn't work.
635
00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:23.510
So it was last ditch effort to say that he
636
00:38:23.550 --> 00:38:27.530
wasn't involved or that others participated. But it was very
637
00:38:27.590 --> 00:38:30.480
clear during his initial confession that he was the one
638
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:33.219
who completed these crimes and completed.
639
00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:33.539
Them by himself.
640
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:38.139
Gacy never took responsibility for his actions, and he would
641
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.269
always blame others. He would blame his victims, and in
642
00:38:41.329 --> 00:38:44.510
some cases, he blamed his victims' parents. He would turn
643
00:38:44.550 --> 00:38:47.750
around and say, well, it's not my fault. I'm completely
644
00:38:48.429 --> 00:38:51.599
not responsible for any of this. And that's a key
645
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.519
psychopathic trait, the failure to take responsibility for their own actions.
646
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:59.980
Despite numerous attempts to appeal his death sentence, on the
647
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.630
10th of May 1994, John Wayne Gacy was executed by
648
00:39:04.730 --> 00:39:08.610
lethal injection at Stateville Penitentiary in Illinois.
649
00:39:09.110 --> 00:39:11.170
It was a circus. We were in a room at
650
00:39:11.230 --> 00:39:14.030
some point and we saw a television screen and we
651
00:39:14.090 --> 00:39:18.340
saw thousands of people lined up at least a mile
652
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:22.000
down the street at the prison with signs, kill the clown,
653
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:25.440
kill Gacy, with our names on it, kill Karen Conti,
654
00:39:26.059 --> 00:39:29.610
people beating drums, people dancing, people with clown makeup on.
655
00:39:29.860 --> 00:39:30.809
It was a celebration.
656
00:39:32.889 --> 00:39:38.070
Gacy's last words were, kiss my ass. Those are the
657
00:39:38.130 --> 00:39:42.369
words of a man who absolutely didn't mind what he'd done,
658
00:39:42.969 --> 00:39:46.210
who was proud of himself and proud of that killing spree,
659
00:39:46.449 --> 00:39:48.679
which makes him particularly chilling.
660
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:53.599
Gacy was unrepentant right up until his last moments. He
661
00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:57.719
clearly felt no remorse for any of his 33 victims.
662
00:39:58.659 --> 00:40:03.300
Using other human beings, you know, inflicting pain and suffering
663
00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:06.449
and torture on another helpless human.
664
00:40:06.190 --> 00:40:08.570
Being, to me, is the essence of evil.
665
00:40:09.309 --> 00:40:13.809
After the execution, you'd think there'd be closure. but there
666
00:40:13.849 --> 00:40:15.730
really isn't closure for something like that. I mean, you
667
00:40:15.769 --> 00:40:18.469
always think back to the victim's family and the poor
668
00:40:18.530 --> 00:40:20.769
young boy who was 15 years old and just a
669
00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:23.489
good kid. So as much as you'd like to believe
670
00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:25.489
there was closure, there really wasn't closure.
671
00:40:25.489 --> 00:40:31.449
40 years after being attacked, Tony Antonucci feels relieved he
672
00:40:31.510 --> 00:40:34.050
didn't become one of Gacy's many victims.
673
00:40:34.969 --> 00:40:38.250
I do feel very lucky to be alive. I don't
674
00:40:38.269 --> 00:40:40.349
know what to attribute that to. You know, maybe I,
675
00:40:40.710 --> 00:40:45.380
you know, luck definitely, um, the biggest component, you know,
676
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:50.380
a little bit of help from above, and basically my
677
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:53.289
own ignorance of the fact that I was truly in
678
00:40:53.349 --> 00:40:56.710
danger and the fact that I didn't panic and just
679
00:40:56.789 --> 00:41:00.030
wanted to win the game, if it was a game,
680
00:41:00.650 --> 00:41:03.809
is probably what helped. I also would have been one
681
00:41:03.849 --> 00:41:08.659
of the earlier victims, so I'm sure his techniques became
682
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:13.739
more honed after he was divorced and lived alone and
683
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.260
had more freedom to act differently.
684
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.440
John Wayne Gacy remains one of the most infamous killers
685
00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:24.559
in American history. His horrific murders continue to haunt the
686
00:41:24.619 --> 00:41:26.000
nation to this day.
687
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:28.980
I still get weird emails. I still get weird things
688
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.460
where people lash out and say terrible things to me
689
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:36.809
about representing Gacy. So, as Gacy said to me, you know,
690
00:41:36.869 --> 00:41:40.849
your obituary will read, Karen Conte represented serial killer John Gacy.
691
00:41:41.409 --> 00:41:44.510
And although I won't be around to verify that, I
692
00:41:45.030 --> 00:41:46.429
have no doubt that's what it will read.
693
00:41:47.190 --> 00:41:50.389
For kids, monsters are real. As you become an adult,
694
00:41:50.429 --> 00:41:52.820
you realize, well, there are no real werewolves, there are
695
00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:56.280
no real vampires. But then something like this happens, and,
696
00:41:57.059 --> 00:42:00.739
you know, it's like, whoa, you know, this monster is real.
697
00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:04.610
You know, there is this ogre. It's transfixing, it's riveting.
698
00:42:05.179 --> 00:42:08.929
You know, it's fascinating in the most horrifying way. Gacy
699
00:42:09.010 --> 00:42:13.369
was the epitome of evil. And he was the epitome
700
00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:18.039
of being a great guy, which gave him the ability
701
00:42:18.099 --> 00:42:19.579
to be the most evil guy in the world.
702
00:42:20.349 --> 00:42:24.590
Gacy's outward persona of a charming socialite helped to keep
703
00:42:24.630 --> 00:42:25.909
his crimes hidden.
704
00:42:25.630 --> 00:42:26.889
For over five years.
705
00:42:27.389 --> 00:42:30.389
But behind the mask of this friendly clown was a
706
00:42:30.449 --> 00:42:34.239
sadistic killer who cruelly and savagely ended the lives of
707
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:38.019
33 young men by torturing them in the most hideous
708
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:42.579
of manners, all for his own selfish sexual gratification. His
709
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:45.280
lack of remorse for any of his victims or their
710
00:42:45.340 --> 00:42:48.699
loved ones right up until the day he was executed
711
00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:52.269
proved that he is, without doubt, one of the world's
712
00:42:52.369 --> 00:42:53.750
most evil killers.