Why Can't They Just Do It?

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Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast, focused on supporting, inspiring, and empowering parents and their neurodiverse children.
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I'm your neurodiverse host, Dr.
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Olivia Kessel.
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We'll be speaking weekly with experts in the world of neurodiversity.
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And most importantly, hearing the voices of other parents just like you.
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Looking forward to having you join us weekly as part of the SEN Parenting Tribe.
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So, welcome everyone.
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It is so nice to have you here today and to have our wonderful uh guest, Nicole McAllister, with us.
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She is amazing, and I think what what you say and how you say it is going to resonate with many of us on the masterclass today.
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You're founder of the Regulated Child, which is a training and coaching program which really understands our children who experience the world differently.
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And it's really grounded in the principles of self-regulation, co-regulation, resilience, and just understanding how our children's brains work.
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And, you know, it's been life-changing for me as a mother, understanding my own daughter's brain and understanding how it works and kind of taking off the lens I had of what she should be able to do at her age and actually what she could be able to do at her age.
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And it's shifted our lives dramatically in the last couple of years.
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And what's also lovely to see is slowly but surely they do get there.
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I refer to her as my slow cooked chicken.
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And you know what?
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I didn't get an air-fried chicken.
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I got a slow-cooked chicken, but you know what?
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She's going to taste beautiful when she's done.
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So, Nicole, I am so happy.
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I'd love to, if you have a few words of introduction before we get into the nitty-gritty of it.
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Yeah, well, um, welcome everybody, and thank you, Dr.
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Olivia, for inviting me along um today.
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So, yes, I mean that that's I guess my kind of professional, you know, persona, but also I'm also a mum to two uh amazing children.
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And my youngest, my son, who is 11, is autistic.
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So while, you know, I've had experience working in in the world of what we would call in Scotland additional support needs, um, special educational needs for you guys, neurodivergence.
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It's been my professional world for for 30 years now.
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Um it's now my kind of lived experience as a mum.
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So that's kind of what I'm hoping to bring along today is to kind of dovetail kind of what I've learned over the past few decades, but actually what that means when you are on the other side of the table and you are living and breathing at 24-7, because it's quite different from doing it professionally.
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Wearing those two hats, I think, is so important because until you've walked the path, you really can't understand what most of these people on the call.
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So it's it that's why I'm so excited to have you here because you have both of those hats, and that's that makes you really relatable.
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So let's let's kick it off with how do we understand the neurodiverse brain?
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And I love your brain house model and how you describe it.
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So I'm gonna hand it over to you to share with everyone.
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Okay.
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It's just do you know, I what I love to do is to take the research and the science, which can sometimes be quite dry, and just find how I can relate it to my everyday life at home.
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And you know, I am not gonna take the kudos for this because this has been developed from Dr.
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Daniel Sagal.
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Um, so it's not it's not my brain house, but it is something that I've kind of evolved and developed and what works really in in my head and in my house.
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So basically, you know, when we think about the brain, I think as a mum, do I need to know every little bit of the brain and what it does?
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No, I don't.
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But actually, what is helpful to understand what part of the brain is functioning predominantly at any given time.
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So I like to think of the brain a little bit like a house.
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And the house, you know, a house is built from the bottom to the top.
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We lay the foundations, it's a basement, then the ground floor, then the upstairs, and the roof gets popped in.
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And it's a little bit like, you know, information that that goes into our child's brain.
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So, you know, the information comes from the senses, from those extenses from the the external world and also internally gets fed up into the brain.
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And the first bit that goes into is what I like to call the basement brain.
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And that basement brain is where all the involuntary responses are.
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So, you know, our sensory sensitivities, our survival responses, our fight, flight, freeze, collapse, and also the stuff that happens that we don't have any conscious control over, you know, our heart rate, our breathing rate, our temperature.
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So all of that is down in the basement.
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And the important thing is it's that it is all involuntary.
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We don't have any control over that stuff.
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If we take a couple of steps up into the next part of our brain, into the next room, I talk about the ground floor of our brain.
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And that is kind of our emotional connected brain.
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So that's where, you know, it's it's our emotional brain, the root of our emotions, it's where we form our relationships, our playfulness and fun happens there, our explicit memories, the memories that we can put words and pictures to, because before then, all those memories are down in the sensory systems, down in the basement.
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And also in that downstairs brain is what I call that stress response button.
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And in our real brain, it's called the amygdala, but we'll think about it as that stress response button.
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And I'm going to come back to that.
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And then if we think about the last part of the brain to develop a little bit like a house, it's upstairs.
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So we go up the steps, upstairs, and there it's where the magic happens.
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That is where all what we call our self-regulation executive functions.
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So being able to regulate our emotions, um, focus, our self-control, um, our self-regulation, um, organization, time management, impulse control, all of that stuff happens upstairs in the brain.
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But we have a problem.
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And for our children that we are all parenting here today, first of all, you know, upstairs is wired slightly differently to neurotypical children.
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So, you know, when babies are born, that that upstairs brain that the roof is on, but the wiring hasn't happened yet.
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But because of our child's brain biology, it gets wired slightly differently.
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And therefore, they experience the world slightly differently.
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And the second thing is that stress response button that is in that downstairs brain, whenever there is a perceived threat that is coming up from the basement and into that downstairs, if it's it's if it's feeling threatening or hard or tricky or something you don't like or no choice or a change, then that stress response button gets hit and everyone goes down to the basement, down to that basement brain.
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And as soon as we're in the basement brain, that staircase to upstairs completely disappears.
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So not only do our children that that wiring is slightly different, but also they have less opportunities to get upstairs and to practice and to strengthen those capabilities.
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So it's kind of like a bit of a double whammy.
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But that the really important thing is that, you know, if we can understand what room of the house or room of the brain our child is in at any given time, that is a room that we need to meet them in.
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You know, we as as mums and dads and carers, we and grannies and granddads, we are fixers.
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We want to fix things and reason and do all of that, but that's all upstairs brain stuff.
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If we've got a child that is right down in that basement brain, we need to get into the basement brain with them.
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And you talk about your regulate, relate, reason framework, and that kind of applies to the house.
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Can you tell us a little bit about that?
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Yeah, this is this is a trauma-informed framework from from Dr.
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Bruce Perry.
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And this comes from um the years that I work worked within um foster care sector.
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And what I then realized was actually that trauma-informed model really relates to our neurodivergent children because they are functioning under heightened levels of stress all of the time.
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So basically, when we're down in that basement brain, that's that's the regulation, that's the kind of the sensory regulation.
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Um, moving up to that downstairs brain, that's the relate, that's the relational regulation, the connectedness.
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And then when we get upstairs to that upstairs brain, that's where the reason is, where we can reason and reflect and think and plan and organize.
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So it's bearing in mind that that is continually on a continuum, that regulate, relate, reason.
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And it has to go.
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You can't jump from being dysregulated to be able to reason and to think.
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Um again, we need to kind of know where our child is on the continuum, and we need to also identify where we are on the continuum any given time and what room of the house that we are in at any given time as well.
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I think that is so important because oftentimes you're both in the basement, but maybe you're screaming about, you know, about what's going, what should be going up on in the attic.
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It's such a it's such a great way and such a good analogy to kind of think.
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And actually, it's it's easy easy to stop and think, okay, where are we at right now and what can we do?
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And I like the the kind of analogy there of the staircase disappearing too, because then there's just there's no way to get up there.
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So don't waste your time trying to rationalize a reason when your kid is in the basement, you know, just needing to regulate.
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Does this kind of concept go across all neurodiversities?
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So are the brains kind of similar?
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Uh can the analogy be used with ADHD, autism, or a combination of them or or other neurodiversities?
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Do you know what?
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What is so fantastic about this is that actually it is applicable for all children.
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And I do a lot of work in in schools, and sometimes teachers will say, Well, that's fine, but I've got a class of 30 children, so how do I do this for, but actually, it's this is about child development, you know, and and irrespective of you know how your brain is is wired and how you experience the world, you know, that that concept is is still the same, that the idea that you know our our brain functions within a sequence, and also you know, the idea that when our brain is is integrated, when you know that basement and that ground floor and the upstairs has the staircase going all the way from the bottom to the top, when that is integrated, that is when it works best.
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So irrespective of whether your child um is autistic, it's ADHD, you know, is is neurotypical.
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My daughter is is a neurotypical and um uh little girl.
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And actually, I use this with her all of the time as well.
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So so no, it it's it doesn't matter because what it does is it really helps you understand that specific child development of your child and understanding where they're at at any given time, and then you think, right, okay, so we're down in the basement, we're down in that kind of sensory regulation.
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I need to go sensory right now.
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That's where I need to go.
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So, no, it's it's it's that's what's so great about it.
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It works for absolutely everybody.
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And it sounds like also from what you're saying, it works really well for us as parents and moms as well.
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So absolutely, because it does, you know, it's that kind of model of we have the though that kind of regulate, relate, reason.
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And at one side we've got the child, and at the other side we've got us.
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And I always kind of say, you know, our child is only as well regulated as we are at any given time, you know, regulation emotions are contagious, it's like tuning forks, you know, we we vibrate at one end of the room and the energy travels to the other, and it is it is an energy, and and we absorb that energy.
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But I think again, if we kind of have this kind of framework and these analogies in our head, it almost kind of takes the heat out of it for us a little bit because we can kind of think rashly and think, this is not personal, this is not about me.
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This my child is actually in the basement right now, and this is not kind of you know, as premeditating, absolutely, yeah, yeah, totally.
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Um and you mentioned also like that that our neurospicy kids are kind of under this constant stress response, you know, and that that kind of sensitivity that they have.
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Can you can you explain that a little bit more?
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Yeah, it's it's like you know, we we always kind of go back to those those nervous systems, and you know, the the the the basic that the the core function of our brain is survival, is to keep us alive.
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And you know, so so what our nervous system is constantly doing numerous times every second is scanning the environment to find out what is safe and what is risk.
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So safe and threat, safe and threat.
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Now, you know, the thing is with our you know neurodiverse children is you know they perceive threats everywhere because the information is going into those sensory systems first and foremost.
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You know, for many of our children who are neurodiverse, those sensory systems are are extremely hypersensitive.
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So sometimes, you know, they they may let in far too much information and not filter out enough, and therefore the brain becomes overwhelmed, and and that is a perceived threat.
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Sometimes there's not enough information going in, sensory information, and then the brain needs to go out and seek that.
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So for a lot of our neurodivergent children, they almost get stuck down in those sensory systems, which feels incredibly overwhelming.
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And you know, the brain is constantly making what I would almost say prediction errors, but it's it's it's doing that just to keep us safe.
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Um, but so even although it might just be that um you have to put on your blue jumper and not your red jumper, or you've been given a ham sandwich and not a cheese sandwich.
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Now, you know, to us that is not a life-threatening situation, but whether a child is in a house that is burning down, or whether something has happened that is hard or unpredictable or don't like, the nervous system doesn't differentiate to them.
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The nervous system is I'm in a house that's on fire, you know, fight, flight, freeze, collapse.
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So, you know, it's and that's the thing with our neurodivergent children, because those sensitivities are heightened, the nervous system is is constantly on overdrive, trying to keep the body and brain safe.
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And understanding that kind of reframes, I think, for for for myself as well.
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It it reframes how you're looking at when they have an absolute meltdown over the cheese sandwich that was supposed to be a ham sandwich.
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Yeah.
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And and again, you know, to us, it doesn't, and and it's you know, it's that validation as well.
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And I think we'll kind of talk about that later in the session, but it's about validating, you know, our children will behave in in certain ways and do things that that's not okay.
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You know, situations will happen at home that's not okay.
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Actually, what we do have to do is we have to validate how our child felt because if we want to help kind of move and shift them and support them, we need to feel validated that that was really tough.
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That must have felt really difficult for you, that must have felt really overwhelming or really hard or really tricky.
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You know, what we're not condoning necessarily what happened as a result, and we're going to look at the repair around that, but it is about validating how how our child feels because we've got to remember that they are living in these body and brains and trying to navigate, you know, the day-to-day world, which is completely overwhelming.
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And for a lot of our kids, by the time they get to school and when they're in school, they're so overwhelmed by just trying to kind of keep a lid on things that actually they can't get access upstairs to the brain because they're trying to hold everything else together.
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And I don't think we should ever, ever underestimate that.
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Yeah, and it it reframes it from you know what they what they won't do to what they can't do, and kind of understanding the those extra pressures that they have.
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Because, you know, we we talk about, we talk a lot actually on the forum that we have, you know, about the kind of oppositional behavior, the avoidance, the emotional outbursts, because they really do suck the life force out of your family.
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They're very hard.
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You know, I describe it in in the book I've just written, you know, it's it feels like you're walking through a minefield with active minds that are going to just explode.
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But, you know, listening to you, it's it's almost like we're misread, you know, we're misreading.
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And that's what I found with my daughter as well.
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Is I was misreading those as at me and not really what she was going through.
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Yeah.
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It's a whole different, you know, I have to say, you know, the when you are parenting, you know, the our our children, and as we do, you know, I think it it becomes our normal.
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Um, but what we have to realize is actually, you know, it is back to that kind of Premier League, you know, what we are doing every day is above and beyond, and we are co-regulating every day and we're predicting every day.
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And it is about, you know, looking at those behaviors as signals.
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And traditionally and historically, what we've done with behavior is it's about being about managing the behavior, it's been about eradicating the behavior.
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But, you know, if that's all we do, what we're doing is we're closing the stable door once the horse is bolted, because the behavior is the cue or the signal that we have got a nervous system that has completely tipped.
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And that's easier to say than it is to do because you know, behavior is really emotive.
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When you've got a child that's maybe shouting or screaming or breaking things or in complete kind of shutdown, it can be really, really difficult not to react and respond to that.
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Um, as I said, you know, behavior and emotions are absolutely contagious.
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But again, if we can come back and just keep thinking about the brainhouse, okay, what room are they in just now?
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You know, that continuum, regulate, relate, reason, where are we just now?
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And that actually it's not personal because if our children could be in a place of feeling calm and alert and feeling good and feeling just right, that is where they would choose to be.
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Our children, you know, they they don't choose to be in that state of intense dysregulation and distress.
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It doesn't feel good.
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If they could feel better and do better, that's what they would choose to do.
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And that's why I always say, you know, um, you know, when we're talking about this stuff, you know, our impulses are not choices.
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And I think we have to be very careful that making good choices or bad choices, a lot of the stuff is not about choices, it is about, you know, uh uh emotional regulation and executive functions that are are working differently.
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One of the other things I think Dr.
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Olivia was wanting to talk about was, you know, why consequences don't work.
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And you know, the reason, and again, this can be really quite tricky sometimes in school settings because a lot of school settings are still set up to be quite consequence-based.
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But if we have children um that cannot access their executive functions, you know, as they should, for example, impulse control.
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You know, consequences are based on the concept that we need to be able to reflect on what happened before, we need to be able to predict what's going to happen next, we need to be able to control our impulses and our emotions, and we need to set out goal-directed behavior of what we need to do.
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And actually, that is really, really complex.
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That whole thing is really complex.
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And for our children who are, you know, autistic, ADHD, it's it's it's almost impossible a lot of the time.
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And that's why consequences don't work.
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And all it does is that we look for then bigger consequences, and and all we do is then we begin to kind of rupture relationships.
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And if we think about that, um, regulate, relate, reason, then that relate bit is is all about relationships.
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And when the relationships aren't there, that's the glue that holds all together.
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Um, then that's when things kind of try to fall out, end up falling apart.
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And you know, talking about consequences, you know, it is so hard because that's what we experience as what we experienced in our childhood.
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If you don't do this, this is gonna happen to you.
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Sit on that, you know, step for a period of time.
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And it it it literally you could then go down a three-hour rabbit hole where you're in that basement and it's ugly.
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Yeah, and the thing is as well, it can be really difficult.
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.640
And I'm quite sure that everybody in this room has been there when it's very, very public.
00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:36.799
Everybody's got got an opinion.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:52.319
And I've been there where I've been in supermarkets or shops, or I remember once actually out in the street um in the middle of town, where it was all because I would go to a soft play with my son and I hadn't taken the right socks, and that was just the end of it.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:05.119
And he he ran out of the soft play, we were in the middle of the street, and it took about an hour and a half to get him shifted, and it was messy and it was hard, and it was pouring down with rain, and you're very aware of that it's very public.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:19.440
And that's really hard as well, because if we're thinking about kind of our you know, that idea of our own regulation and co-regulation, that point, you know, we're in a place of almost that kind of like that fear and and and survival responses as well.
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:30.640
So, yeah, I mean it's the the this stuff, it it's it's sometimes easy to talk about, but we understand how how difficult in the day-to-day life where things can just get really, really tricky.
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:36.319
Yeah, and it it it usually happens when when you know you really, really don't want it to happen, I find.
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.319
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.640
And you know, I think it's also it a lot of us are neurodiverse ourselves.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.599
So, you know, we we we we can regress to that basement quite easily as well.
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:57.759
So it's it's doubly challenging because you're dealing with your own brain's network, which might be quite similar to your child's network, and therefore you sparks can fly.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.759
And it can also be quite difficult as well.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:09.680
When we're talking about behaviour, you know, I've kind of talked about things like you know, throwing things or breaking things and whatnot, you know, you know, and and and we don't like that, and it's not nice, but the world doesn't stop turning.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:13.359
But sometimes it might be things that it becomes unsafe.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:19.119
You know, I remember a time with my son just at um at the beginning of the year, everything was icy.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:26.799
We were walking uh down by a loch nearby us, and he climbed up on a wall and it was a sheer drop to the frozen lock down below.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.839
And you know, it's that you have to react and respond.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:34.720
And I knew what the consequences of that was going to be of physically getting him off of the wall.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:43.920
We tried the kind of talking down and he was getting further and further, and you know, and then you know that you're having to deal with a child in the basement brain in a very public situation.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:59.359
But you know, when we're talking about behavior, I'm also mindful, as I say, you know, we have to kind of also think safety as well, and and that can be really, really tricky because when we've got a child that's down in the basement, they're not in that reasoning brain that actually they're in a position that is really dangerous, and we're just keeping them safe.
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:05.279
And there's no point in trying to reason that I'm trying to keep you safe because they're not in their upstairs reasoning brain at that time.
00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:07.759
So that's where it can get tricky as well.
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:09.200
What did you do?
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.319
What did I do?
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:19.359
Yeah, that I'm actually I'm actually just it just came to my mind as we were talking there, and I'm telling that what what what I did was um it took me uh again, it was about an hour and a half.
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:24.079
Um I I had to end up just pulling them by the hands off the wall, and then that was it.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.119
So we basically it was frozen cold.
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.440
I had the dog with me, a big massive dog.
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:42.799
I had him, people were walking past, and he just was he goes went into complete shutdown and he wouldn't move and he was really distressed, and then he was lying across the path, and people couldn't get past.
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.799
So you just have to.
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:46.400
There's nothing you can do.
00:23:46.480 --> 00:24:02.079
You know, it's that whole thing about, you know, I think when we think of our neurodivergent children in their own space and time, and sometimes you just need to create an imaginary bubble around you and think, right, okay, I can't physically move him, he's too big, and we're stuck here for the duration.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.640
I just need to be, and it's that idea of at that point, I'm in the basement brain with them.
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.079
We need to sit there, I need to think sensorly, I need to keep people away from them.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.400
Talking, touching is going to kind of activate things even more.
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:18.720
So I just need to be present and there, and it's just going to take as long as it's taken.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:25.920
And it did, it took about an hour and a half, between an hour and a half and two hours to finally get um shuffling over to the car and in the car.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.119
But we lost the whole day.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.039
By the time I got him home, he was gone, he was under the doo-view for the rest of the day after that.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.160
But my goal was to get him home safely.
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:40.000
But sometimes, and that's the the difficulty is that the ready, not ready can be really tricky.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:48.880
Um, so it is it is about in their own space and time, and we just need to put our little protective bubbles around us sometimes and shut the world out and do what they need.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.480
And that's not always easy.
00:24:50.799 --> 00:24:52.000
No, hats off to you.
00:24:52.160 --> 00:25:09.680
You both must have been freezing and well done for for and I guess that kind of brings us nicely on to our our our our next session of uh of discussion, which is the practical tools, you know, what can we actually practically do do with our kids to kind of work through these situations?
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:16.400
It's it's that there's different tools for, I guess, kind of different situations.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:21.759
Again, it's about knowing where your child is at at any given time, what what room of the house that they're in.
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:34.160
And for me, you know, if a child's in the basement, then we are thinking sensory and we are thinking right, okay, what what what is go what is going to reduce the sensory sensitivities right now?
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:41.599
It's not the long-term goal, it's not what I want to achieve, but the right now, what do I need to do to move from the basement to the ground floor?
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:50.240
And you know, that all you know, the golden thread through all of that is also about safe relationships, it's uh it's about creating that felt sense of safety.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:26:04.400
Um when we do actually begin to kind of shift from that kind of downstairs brain to that the upstairs brain, for for me, a real, real practical tool that I have used for many, many years is what I call the self-regulation framework.
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:10.400
And it's really super simple and it's it's goal, plan, do, review.
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:27.599
And what it is, it's you know, when we're talking about kind of self-regulation and executive, I always say self-regulation and executive functions because for me, you know, self-regulation is probably the most important one because self-regulation is about regulating our stress responses.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:34.720
And as soon as our stress response takes over, that's where the stress response button gets hit and we all end up in the basement brain.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.920
And we've got access to none of our executive functions.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:42.880
So being able to regulate those stress responses is really, really important.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:53.039
And, you know, for you know, even kind of neurotypical children, the these systems and capabilities don't really fully function until we enter our their mid-20s.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:58.240
For our neurodivergent children, you know, we know that the wirings are really quite different.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:14.079
So what we can do is that, you know, when we've got children kind of moving into that upstairs brain, when we're in a place where we're maybe having fun together, where we're connected together, when the going's going well, when we tend to think, oh, thank goodness, and keep my fingers crossed, this is all okay.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:18.319
It's actually the time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining, and that's when the work can be done.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:25.200
So it's when we're up there that we want to kind of support our child's self-talk because that's what self-regulation is.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:28.000
We we we do it as adults every minute of every day.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.759
You know, it's the words in our head of I need to do this, I need to do that, I need to do that first.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.240
I've not got enough time for this, so I'll leave that till later.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:42.079
So we are constantly, you know, setting goals, our tiny wee goals of, you know, getting the breakfast or making the pack lunches or getting the school bags packed.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:43.440
We are constantly doing that.
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:46.480
We're predicting, we are planning, we are doing.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:48.799
Our children don't have those capabilities.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:28:05.599
So, what we can do is we can be their external regulators and we can help them, we can break down the big stuff because that's the problem, is we assume that our children kind of know what they need to do to get through the day, but they don't, you know, even things like um, you know, go upstairs and get dressed.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:11.920
That's a really complex, you know, set of instructions and and capabilities.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.480
You know, in order to do that, I need to um prioritize what I need to do.
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:30.000
I need to be task-focused, I need to be organized, I need to be looking at my time management to make sure I'm getting things, you know, so it's it's all I need to not procrastinate, I need to kind of not, you know, be impulsively pulled into something else.
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:35.440
So what we do is is we support our children to identify very specifically what the goals are.
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:42.799
So we take the big stuff, and I tend to use the four Ws of the what, what we need to do, where, when, and who.
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:48.079
So what we need to do, when we need to do it, where it's it's happening, and and who's going to be around.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:54.400
So we are taking something that just feels quite day-to-day, but we are making it super explicit.
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:57.359
We are then the predict bit, so we've set the goal.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:06.319
Now, the goal might be just about um brushing your teeth, popping your clothes on, putting your daughters in your school bag, it's tiny, tiny little things.
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:10.160
But we then need to, I spoke earlier about prediction errors.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:17.039
You know, our children make lots of prediction errors, you know, catastrophize, it's too hard, it's not enough time, I can't do it, I don't like it.
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.279
And that hits the stress response button.
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.960
Now, a lot of behaviours are actually quite predictable.
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:41.039
So, as the adult, if we can co-regulate and co-predict with our child by, you know, and using simple words, and it and it's it's age and stage appropriate, but things such as, you know, you know, I'm wondering if that is going to be hard or tricky, or hmm, last time you found that, you know, quite quite difficult to do.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.240
I was a bit of a challenge, or oh, you told me you didn't like that.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:55.119
So these words like hard, tricky, like, don't like, big deal, little deal, not ready, these are all predictors that we can use in that very kind of just thoughtful way.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:56.960
You know, I noticed that last time.
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:58.160
This was really tricky.
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.519
And also what we're doing is we're validating how our child felt.
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.200
And then it's about making a plan.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:08.240
And it's again, it's that kind of thinking aloud of, I'm wondering what might help.
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:09.839
You know, what do you need?
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:10.799
How can I help?
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.519
I could be wrong, but I am thinking if.
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.319
So what we are doing is we are thinking aloud.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:21.680
We are not telling our child what to do because that is our self-talk and our self-regulation.
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:29.839
And if all we ever do is give them directions and tell them what to do, we don't get them upstairs like you know, it's like a gym at this point.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:39.920
They're strengthening their self-regulation executive function muscles because they are upstairs and their upstairs brain actively engaging in this planning process of what might help.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:46.720
And sometimes, you know, or a lot of times, we we think we are dealing with an issue which isn't actually the issue.
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.759
So we are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
00:30:50.240 --> 00:30:54.240
So we we support our we collaborate in a plan of what might help.
00:30:54.319 --> 00:31:00.960
And it's going back and forward with our child, and then we we think about the doing because our children are great at telling us what they should do.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:07.279
Comes to the doing, they get hit by the curveballs and the impulse control, and it all goes horribly wrong.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.319
So it's thinking about what do they need to get through the do?
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:11.759
What supports do they need?
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:13.759
Do they need something visual, something practical?
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:15.359
Do I need to be there with them?
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.279
And then it's a review, which is just a very quick statement of how'd that go?
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.039
That worked out really good today.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.799
Maybe we'll try that again tomorrow.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:24.799
Because that is what joins the dots.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:26.880
It's go predict, plan, do review.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:31.440
And just to give you a really brief example, it's a bit of a funny one actually from from yesterday.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:40.000
My son was we were getting ready to go from school and he always has a little shot in his scooter up inside, up and down the pavement outside, um, and you could hear him shouting.
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.839
So I went out and uh he was really cross with his jumper.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:47.519
There was a little he had found a little hole in his jumper, so he came storming back in.
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:50.960
I can't go to school, I can't go to school, I've got a hole in my jumper.
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.720
Now, at which point I am hooking into the goal protect plan due review.
00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:56.319
My goal is to get him to school.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:01.119
I was also going off to deliver a training event, so I had all those little goals in my head.
00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:04.000
My predict is this is going to be hard.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:09.519
So I'm almost doing a body scan of because it's it's not just what you say, but how we say it.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:15.680
So I can't look that I'm getting a little bit stressed and touchy, so I have to kind of think about how I'm sounding.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:19.759
So I'm saying, oh my goodness, I can see that you've got a little hole.
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.400
Oh my goodness, that must feel really uncomfortable.
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.200
So I'm doing the predict, I'm validating.
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.920
And uh, yes, I can go to school.
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:32.079
And I'm like, hmm, okay, I can see this is really tricky.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.000
So now we're on to the plan.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:41.599
So I said, Well, I know, I wonder, I could I've got time, I can take your jumper off and I'll give it a quick sew.
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:43.279
Taking my jumper off.
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:44.559
No, that's fine.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:50.319
I wonder how about I could just sew it, I can just do it while it's no, I'm not doing that.
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:57.200
I want my other jumper, which I realize is in the washing machine soaking wet, so he can't have his other jumper.
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:06.240
So, and I said, hmm, right, this is really tricky because you know, we need to get to school because that is my goal.
00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.640
But his goal is the jumper getting fixed.
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:10.319
My goal is going to school.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:16.160
And that's where the difficulties are, is quite often as parents and children, our goals are different.
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.400
So we need to ensure that they align.
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:25.519
And he said, But I'm not going until I have a plan because I use this with him all the time, and he knows that plans are helpful.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:27.920
And I said, Hmm, what do you think?
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.720
He said, I know I have a plan.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:36.559
I will get plaster and stick it over the hole and just tell everybody I have an injury.
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:40.079
Now I would never have come up with that plan, but that was his plan.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:44.160
So we got a plaster, we stuck it over the hole, and off he went to school.
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:48.480
And I said, Would it help if I popped some plasters in your bag in case that one comes off?
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:49.680
Yes, please.
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:52.240
So off he went and then we came home.
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.359
And I said, How did that go?
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:53.839
It was fine.
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.559
I said, So, you know, tonight when you've taken your jumper off, would it help then if I sewed it?
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.319
Yes, once it's off, you can sew it.
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:03.839
So that's a really simple example of go predict, plan, do review.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.079
That's just it, it's so brilliant.
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:13.199
And, you know, listening to how you handle that situation and thinking to myself, how I would have, you know, because you were probably quite stressed.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.920
You had something that you had to go to, you have to go to school.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:17.679
You know, we can change the jumper.
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:25.599
And we we jump into solution modes, but being able to take that step back, scan yourself, and really let him come up with a plan.
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:28.239
It keeps him in the upper part of the house.
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:28.800
Absolutely.
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:37.280
Whereas if you demanded that he change his jumper or made solutions for him, we're just basically knocking out those stairwells and he's gonna go into the basement ring.
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:44.320
And then we're more like he was on the on the wall, and you're gonna spend two hours and you're gonna miss your meeting, and he's not gonna go to school.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:49.199
It's so clever, but I also have to say, well done you for your your calmness.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.239
I call it intentional parenting.
00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:58.719
You know, it's about being very intentional.
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:16.480
I am always, and and it is, and I suppose it's it is knowing what we know about the brain house and about that regulate, relate reason, and and being very, very aware that this little conversation that we are having of predicting and planning might take a couple of minutes more.
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:22.800
But as you said, what I'm doing is I'm also keeping him in the upstairs brain and connected to me.
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:26.639
So we have got a better, you know, chance of success.
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:34.239
I'm not gonna lie, at one point I thought I don't have, I mean, if he hadn't come up with the plaster, I didn't have anything else in my tank to give him.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:53.119
But it is about, you know, and then children are much more likely to carry out their plan because they have ownership and that sense of agency is so, so important for our children because it eradicates a lot of the stress as well and it creates predictability, which is so important.
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:55.199
Yeah, you know, it is that ownership.
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:59.519
And I find the more ownership that I give my daughter, the better she does.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:03.519
Like, you know, I want her to make her breakfast in the morning, and it was a real disaster the other week.
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:05.039
And I said, So what can we do?
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:06.480
What what what's the solution?
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.400
Kind of like your planning model.
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:10.639
And uh, and she goes, let me think about it for a while.
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:24.000
And then she came to me and she had actually written, you know, in an Excel spreadsheet what breakfast she was gonna have every day, printed it off, cut it out, you know, stuck it on the fridge, and she's like, This is how, this is what I'm gonna have for breakfast every day, and I'm gonna make it.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:25.199
And I was like, Well, and you know what?
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.199
She did it, you know, didn't need any more.
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:28.719
She'd made her solution.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:40.719
And what's so amazing about that is she also is even one more step ahead of the game, and she's created a visual resource because she knows she's not gonna be able to remember every day what she had.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:51.440
So actually, not only has she created her plan, which is her plan, she has also created a visual template that is something that she can go back and check in with because she knows that she needs that as well.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.440
So, how clever is that?
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:54.800
Exactly.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:59.360
And I love that, you know, I just and I love that your son also said, Oh, so we'll do a plan.
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:11.119
Like it, it's just it's you know, and even though it takes a little bit longer, what you're saying there, it pays off dividends because we all know when those mornings go wrong, how long it can be.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:12.559
Oh, absolutely.
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:40.880
And do you know it's it is, and as much as we're we're kind of laughing at that point, you know, I am very aware of my own brainhouse and my own, you know, regulate, relate, reason and thinking, you know, if also if I tip and and I could feel myself beginning to push towards the making demands of you just need to get in the car and we just need to go, because that's actually what I would say to my daughter, and that would work, but it doesn't, it's it's a completely different method of parenting.
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:46.719
And actually, this this process as well, um, this is what school uses for them as well.
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.320
They and he knows that also school make plans.
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:57.440
So when things, something's coming up that's tricky at school, um I can just send a little email and somebody will make a plan.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:04.239
So that the idea for him is he knows that actually making a plan creates solutions, and that's what this framework is.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:09.840
It's a problem-solving framework because when you can solve problems, you are out of the stress zone.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.039
It's very empowering.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:12.400
Absolutely.
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:15.440
And that's a great thing, you know, being able to take it into school.
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:19.760
How can parents who are listening, like, how did you broach that subject with school?
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:21.360
How did you bring them on board?
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:25.760
Uh, you mentioned earlier, oh, well, we have 30 kids, how can I be, you know, specialist to you?
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:37.840
But I think it's a it's it's a big question because, you know, the homework that's expected of them might not meet their executive functioning, and the way that homework is is given often doesn't work.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:42.400
And and you know, and and also being in school and and having demands often doesn't work.
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:48.800
And you know, well, I come, you know, I I I'm a primary school teacher, you know, I I come, I kind of can wear those two hats as well.
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:52.639
I come from an education background and I know how how difficult it is.
00:38:52.719 --> 00:39:00.320
And and certainly we have, you know, more and more children with a diverse range of needs in our classrooms and trying to meet all those needs is really, really difficult.
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:06.719
However, when you are on the other side of the fence as a parent or carer, you're only bothered about your child really.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:08.480
You you want their needs to be met.
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:17.679
And I've always just I've always I'm very, very lucky, I have to say, I've always had a very open relationship and a good relationship with school.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:35.519
And, you know, I don't go in and tell them what they have to do, but it is about helping them to kind of understand, and you're talking about executive functions, you know, understand, you know, the day-to-day demands within a school environment and how for kind of a lot of children that that's fine.
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:44.960
They can they can manage those, but it's about helping them to kind of almost understand for him where some of those kind of executive functioning differences are.
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:50.719
So that the things that and I call them almost those kind of like his hidden, you know, areas of development.
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:56.800
And it's those hidden areas, so it might look like that he can manage, but but we know that there's going to be fallout from that.
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:15.199
So I I spoke to them very, very early doors about the fact that, you know, if he feels involved, if there's collaboration and he feels that that he is involved in the conversations and and the plans, then they are much more likely to have a successful outcome.
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:22.800
Now that's what they want because when it's not successful, the work on their part is tenfold because they are dealing with fallout.
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:36.239
So, you know, it's almost about selling it, about being, you know, if we can be more proactive, we can minimize the likelihood of some of this really tricky stuff happening, which I know is really hard for staff, and I know can hijack a whole class.
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:45.760
So um, so so I've quite explicitly kind of looked at kind of those executive functions and those kind of little hotspots and and worked with school.
00:40:45.840 --> 00:41:01.360
And we have an agreement that um if the if there is an issue, which there is quite regularly, well, every week I would say, where I just send a little email and it can be something quite minimal and you know, about a change that's happening that he's feeling really stressed about.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:11.440
And all it will take is a five-minute conversation between a member of staff, and it can be any member of staff and him, for him to feel heard and make a plan.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:13.199
I mean, everything's fine again.
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:29.280
So I think again, it's about just trying to kind of get school on board with that if we can be more proactive and reactive, it's actually going to be really helpful for you in the longer term as well, and to be as explicit as possible and that we're not working.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:42.239
And again, you know, it can be quite fragmented sometimes with schools, it can be really tricky, but it's about if if we can try to work together for that kind of common goal.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:49.840
Again, it's almost in my head when I'm working with schools, I'm doing the goal predict plan, doing review when I'm speaking to staff, you know, what we're problem solving.
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.360
Okay, what is it we need to do here?
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:52.480
What are the tricky bits?
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:56.239
You know, what are we predicting together that's going to be throughout the week that's going to be the hard bits?
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:57.760
Well, what plans can we put in place?
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.800
How can I help at home?
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:00.079
What can I support you?
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.639
So it's almost using that framework of problem solving as the adults for the child as well.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.519
Great how it can have that dull purpose.
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:12.400
What would you say to parents who the child is absolutely fine at school?
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:21.599
And then, you know, the wheels come off at home, and then when it's time to do homework, you know, at home, there's just, you know, it's just diabolical.
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:27.760
And then they go back to talk to the school, and the school's like, well, they're fine at school, you know, could it be your parenting?
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:28.559
Yeah.
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.159
And do you know what?
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:46.960
You know, I I work with a lot of parents, and I would say that is more often than not, that that is what the situation is, is that in particular with our girls, um, you know, they they go into school and they, you know, just about get through the day.
00:42:47.199 --> 00:43:00.000
And um, a parent I'm working with just now, there they were saying, you know what, in fact, we can't even get to the school gates before it just the explosion happens, just as soon as she comes out of the door, it just all falls to pieces.
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:06.400
And that's really, really hard because what we are experiencing at at home, school aren't experiencing.
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:08.400
So again, it goes back to that validation.
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.880
We kind of as parents don't feel validated, we don't feel heard, we don't feel seen.
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:27.760
But it is again, it's it's about understanding, you know, our child's biology and it's about understanding that and and speaking to children as well, whereby they are going through their school day suppressing, suppressing, suppressing.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:38.079
So what happens is, you know, they can't get into their upstairs brain to engage and to learn because they are holding everything together down in those lower parts of the brain.
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:43.440
So there's not an explosion in school, and therefore it just has to come out somewhere.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:59.760
And so for me, there's there's not an easy answer to that, but it is again, it's just understanding that actually, you know, what's happening is it's just that that pressure cooker that is being held all day, and it's about us predicting as parents that when our child is going to come home.
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:02.079
That's going to be the situation.
00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:04.559
So, actually, what's the plan going to be?
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:06.559
You know, what is going to help at this point?
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:10.719
And you've talked about homework, and I am going to be really controversial here.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.039
And this is just our absolute personal opinion.
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.519
And I am, it's not for everybody.
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:20.719
But for me, school day is a long day, it's an exhausting day.
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.719
Our children have got nothing left in the tank when they come home.
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:30.960
And for me, again, understanding what we know about biology, the body needs to rest and digest.
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:41.519
And it, you know, physiologically, it has to do that by adding an additional, quite intense stressor of you need to sit down and get your homework done.
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:52.639
And if we think about that as adults, you know, if you've had a really hard day at work, and then after your dinner, you've got another hour worth of work to do and you have got nothing left in the tank.
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:54.639
And that's us as well, regulated adults.
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:59.440
So for me, I think you need to look very carefully at what that night times looks like.
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:04.480
And do we need the clubs and the going out and the homework and all the rest of it?
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:11.599
And sometimes it just means that our evenings and weekends might look a little bit different because rest and digest is so important.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:14.880
I think you said that so so correctly.
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:17.440
I just say it's to hell with the homework, you know what I mean?
00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:18.559
Like it doesn't really matter.
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:21.840
It actually has absolutely no predictor of academic success.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:36.960
I know you're a teacher, so you probably have to be a little bit more, more uh but I, you know, what's interesting is since I've stopped homework in our lives, and we might do, you know, maybe on the weekend, she actually now is at an age where she's wanting to do her homework and she will do her homework, you know, when when she wants to.
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:38.559
And if she doesn't, I don't really care.
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:40.079
And so it it's up to her.
00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:41.760
But I think, you know, it's so true.
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:48.159
We we just have to create an environment at home where they can can relax and release.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:46:08.239
And I've also had parents come to me and say, you know, it's so bad at home that I actually need to reach out because of the kind of the explosions from a violent and you know, physical and verbal kind of sense are so big that I need to go back to the school and actually be open about this and really, you know, and that's scary to do as a parent.
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:24.639
Um, and I I, you know, I'm I I really admire people that are able to do that because then the school can step up and be like, and they can hear, and then they can say, okay, what can we do at school so that your child isn't sitting in that basement, you know, just trying to hold it all in?
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:26.239
What are the things that are triggering?
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:32.639
And then you can really start to work towards solutions and back into your planning kind of framework.
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:44.079
Um, but I think we need to take that embarrassment away and that it's not your parenting and that it is understanding your child and bringing the school on a journey to understand your child as well.
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:44.880
Absolutely.
00:46:44.960 --> 00:47:08.320
And it's, you know, it's it's it is it's it puts you in a very vulnerable position because we we want to present, we're parents, we want to present ourselves as capable and that you know we've got this, and and actually sometimes, you know, it is about going and and saying just being absolutely brutally honest and saying, you know, that this is you know, this this is hard and and you know, I'm not coping.
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:12.239
And and schools that you know, schools are are getting, I think they're getting much better.
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:41.440
I work with a lot of schools, and I do think schools are coming on board, they're a bit slightly further behind in the process as we are as as parents and carers, but they are getting on board and understanding, you know, sensory sensitivities and demands and expectations and transitions, beginnings, endings, and you know, trying to, you know, that there's all sorts and and schools working in partnerships as well with all sorts of different, you know, agencies and professionals and um and and bringing other folks on on board as well.
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:49.760
But I think when it comes to evening time after school, you you just do what works because that is what needed.
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:59.920
And again, when we understand children's biology um by putting in more stressors, something will give quite significantly at some point if we keep doing that.
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:04.239
Now um we've run over a little bit, but we have some time for questions.
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:10.079
So everyone, you know, please feel free to take yourself uh to put your cameras on.
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:15.840
And if you have any questions for Nicole, please take yourself off mute.
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:16.800
I see Sophie there.
00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:17.519
Hi, Sophie.
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:18.000
How are you?
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.280
Uh thank you for this.
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:26.000
It's always a very good reminder because I keep going out of this, going into the blame game a little bit with my son.
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:31.440
Um, but as something that's recently happened, I'm thinking about that when you're talking.
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:38.000
He doesn't always show to me when he is in that basement brain, if you like.
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.719
So in the car on the way home from school, it's exam week, it's gonna be a bit trickier.
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:43.920
How's it gone?
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:48.559
Fine, and this wasn't so good, but he's talking about it calmly.
00:48:48.800 --> 00:49:23.920
And I'm thinking, okay, everything's okay, he's coping well, we get home, he's not showing fizziness, he's got ADHD, he's 12, and um then I'm starting dinner thinking everything's okay, and then there's explosions upstairs when he gets upstairs to his sister and he's hitting her, and she's responding to him, then because she's responded to him physically, he then ramps it up, and then I'm coming down trying to separate them, and it's just that not seeing that it's about to happen, if you see what I mean, is is is difficult.
00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:27.760
And then how do you respond to that?
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:39.760
Yeah, for for me, yeah, it's it's actually and that that's a really good example that we don't we don't always see the signs and we we don't always read the signs.
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:59.360
For me, you know, in that that moment, you know, what what you're doing is is is a bit of crisis management of kind of trying to kind of de-escalate and soothe everything to get everybody back to a safe place, but then it's what happens afterwards when he's kind of back in that kind of you know, calm alert state.
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:02.639
For me, that's when I would be doing the good goal predict plan do review.
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:06.800
And when we're talking about the goal, I would just say, I I noticed.
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:10.239
Now it might be you would have that conversation that night, or it might be the next day.
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:19.840
I, you know, we know how kind of that that it's very much when a child's in that dysregulation, it's physiological, it can take a bit of time to for things to kind of settle.
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.800
So you'll know when the time is right, you'll be able to read the signals.
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:24.800
And it's almost that thinking aloud.
00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:33.840
And for me, I would almost script it as, you know, I noticed yesterday, you know, when when you came home from school and you went upstairs, you were just finding it really hard.
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:45.599
And and I think as as parents, what we want to do is we want to name the behavior and say, when you came in, you were you hit your sister and you were annoying her, and then and we get we kind of get back.
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.800
As soon as you you you name the behavior, we shut down the we shut down the conversation.
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:58.000
So sometimes to just say, I noticed that you found difficult or hard.
00:50:58.079 --> 00:50:59.920
It's those prediction words again.
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:06.320
Um so it's it's more of a statement, and you know, just and and and and again, then it goes back to that predict.
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:12.079
It's it, you know, you say, you know, I thought you you were doing all right, but I could see that you were having a really tough time.
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:20.800
So, you know, so I'm wondering, you know, next time or tomorrow, whenever the next exam is, you know, I'm wondering, you know, what could we do?
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:21.760
What do we need?
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:29.199
You know, so it's about the the afterwards, you know, you know, what we want to do is minimize the likelihood of that happening again.
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:34.800
So I as I say, it's the I noticed that you found whatever difficult or hard.
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:41.199
And it's that kind of validating those feelings and coming from a real place of compassion and and empathy.
00:51:41.440 --> 00:51:43.440
I know the hitting and all that's that's not okay.
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:44.480
We can talk about that later.
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:50.159
But if you try to bring that into the conversation, you know, just because what we then go to, and you mentioned it blame and shame.
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:54.239
We go back to that blame and shame, and therefore we shut down, we shut down the discussion.
00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:55.519
But that's a really good way of doing it.
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:57.920
And ask him, you know, what's up?
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.000
What can I do to help?
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.920
Um, and sometimes it's just about, you know, sitting next to each other on the bed.
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:10.400
It's not, it's not or when you're driving the car, it's like something when it's not really intense, you're not sitting down, having a one-to-one.
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:16.320
It's almost just, oh, this has just popped into my head, and I'm just happening to mention something that I noticed.
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:19.119
Um and keeping it really low-key.
00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:22.719
But that that that's what I would suggest, and and and and see how you get on.
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:29.440
But you'll know, you'll know the words that that and that the phrases that feel right to you, but around that kind of that kind of framing.
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:38.480
That's very helpful because if I start talking about that's too aggressive, that was really hurtful, he then just won't even accept that it's happened.
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:41.280
Oh, she did this to me, she did that to me.
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:47.599
You know, it it it's because it's I'm blaming probably too much with the it's that's what we do.
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:49.920
It's it's it's that's our gut reaction.
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.079
And as parents, that's the thing, you know.
00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:57.119
If we were to say the first thing that was on our tongue, that would be for every single one of us, that's exactly what we would say.
00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:14.480
And that's what I'm talking about, that intentional parenting of us stopping and thinking like what words am I going to use here that's going to keep him on board and is going to allow him to feel seen and felt um and and validated because you're absolutely right.
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:20.079
If you as soon as you go in with the behavior, he will deflect onto everybody else.
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:29.199
And because in his head, you know, it's and again, it's like those kind of like fixed mindsets, the problem lies elsewhere and and not with me.
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:32.880
And we'll get nowhere if if we go down that rabbit hole.
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:35.440
But it is the it is the one that we jump on, you know.
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:37.760
That's an that's our impulsive one, I would say.
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:39.840
But that's a different way of reframing it.
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:41.360
Yeah, thank you.
00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:42.320
Excellent.
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:46.079
Do we have any other a quick question from anyone else?
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:47.679
No, no questions.
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:53.840
You did such a wonderful job of explaining to us, Nicole, which is so true, you know.
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:58.719
And I think uh one thing that I have to say is, you know, it's a work in progress for us parents as well.
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:00.320
So be kind to yourself.
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:05.920
It's not always possible to um react the way we know we should react.
00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:13.039
And so give yourself some slack when you also end up in the basement with your child and just, you know, uh be forgiving.
00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:17.679
And, you know, it's it's also an opportunity to teach your child that, you know, it happens to you too.
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:23.199
So um I just uh want to stress kindness, kindness to yourself as a as a parent.
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:24.400
Absolutely.