Untitled EpisodeJordan Wilkins on Special Operations Medicine, Mental Health, Faith and TMS | Security Halt! Ep. 471

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If you want to see real medical trauma, go see what these dudes have to endure and like the training they go through.
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It's insane, dude.
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What you guys have done, Jordan, what you and every special operation medic goes through in that course are have some of the most incredible cadre out there.
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It's insane, man.
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A year worth of your life just dedicated to medicine.
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And it's not just like, hey, sit down.
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We're gonna watch a PowerPoint, it beating it into your face, and then like, oh yeah, by tomorrow, some of your best friends will not be here because they're going to fail.
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I always look back and any other course after I attended the Fort Bragg schoolhouse, I compare everything back to that.
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As I'm going through a training course over, you know, something in my life and things like that.
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I compare it back to that schoolhouse and like how in-depth and thorough.
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And you know, a lot of times they'll say they essentially scrunch down med school into a year and then add some extra stuff on top of it.
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That Security Halt Media is looking for clients that need video editing.
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Have them reach out to info at securityhaltmedia.com.
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Jordan, we have to we have to run it back.
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It's one of the funniest things I've encountered all day.
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You know, oftentimes when you hear Marine Corps, you hear places like 29 POMs and you you hear nothing but uh negative things.
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And when we started this, uh, you know, the the the light banter before we started recording, uh Jordan was like, Yeah, I'm still in 29 POMs.
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I said, why on earth would you still be there?
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But it makes sense because you're you're just leaving, you're just getting out.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's only been a couple months since I retired.
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Um and honestly, you know, we've been here the last five years, and we don't hate it, you know.
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There's plenty of people that do.
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But maybe we're the weirdest, you know.
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Yeah, you're you're definitely part of a very small demographic that can uh see the bright side of all situations.
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But you know, when it comes to transition, getting out of the military, that's something uh everybody needs to have.
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A little more optimism, a little bit of the uh grass is greener on my side type of vision.
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But uh Jordan, you did some great things in the military and and now you're you're moving on.
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But before we you know dive into everything you're doing now, let's take it all the way back, man.
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Take it all the way back to that young kid that may or may not have had the dream of becoming a Marine, because we all know some people are forced into service and some people grow up driven to join.
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Yeah.
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Especially Marine Corps.
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Um, so first, I'm not in the Marine Corps.
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Well, you you work you work alongside the Marines, I should say.
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Yeah.
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Very closely, right?
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So that is the that is the the conundrum, right?
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Like being it's different in the army.
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Like we have we own our medics, we own our our medical people.
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Guess get you're the department of you know, you're the Navy, but uh you get you get sent over to the Marine Corps.
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But if you're good, you're you're called Doc and you earn that title and you're part of the Brotherhood.
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Oh yeah.
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So I mean, yeah, uh I went in as a as a Navy Corpsman, you know, going into the recruiter's office day one, you know, I went into the Marine Corps office and I was like, hey, how do I be a medic for you guys?
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And they're like, go next door.
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Um but yeah, ever since then, um, throughout like training pop pipelines and Mars Ok deployments to Afghanistan and everything, I've been with the Marines, you know, essentially the whole way um in one form or the other.
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You know, even out here in 29 Palms, you know, I was uh battalion surgeon of 37 at infantry unit.
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Um, and then I just I transitioned to actually my first Navy command, where you know I was just a PA physician associate.
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Um seeing, you know, the com student Marines and and all the headquarters people and things like that.
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So I mean, yeah, I mean, Navy has written my paycheck for the last you know almost 20 years.
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Um, but I've been with the Marine Corps, you know, yeah, 99% of that time.
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Yeah, it's uh it's not an easy thing.
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And you glossed over so much right there.
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Um so let's we we we need to do a a the real service to to this history because how do you go from bringing a corpsman to now you know ending your your military service as a physician assistant, man?
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Like that I know it takes a lot.
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Some of the audience may not know this, but that is a huge thing, dude.
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Some of our you know, our our 18 Deltas, the medical MOS for Special Forces, a lot of those guys, they have a big dream to have that dream of like I'm gonna work hard, I'm gonna be on a team, but do my deployments, chase the endless summers of being deployed in combat.
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But at some point I'm gonna punch that ticket and I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I've got what it takes to become a PA.
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That is not an easy feat, man.
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Like, so um we gotta go back.
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We gotta let's take us back through this journey, man.
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Like you, you're that kid, you you know, like a lot of us, you you knock on the wrong door or the right door, and then that that leaves you down the uh a pathway of uh you know, start your own adventure.
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And um, where does it all start for you?
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You know, you go in the navy, um, but I can imagine that training is not easy.
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No, so I mean going in the Navy, every you know, dude going in the Navy at that time thinks he's gonna be Navy SEAL, you know.
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Uh so I mean the thing for me is like, yeah, I want to be a Navy SEAL, but I knew about the Fort Bragg schoolhouse, right?
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For the 18 Delta special operations medics, all that.
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And so I knew about that and I was like, I want to go be a medic.
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I've always had you know felt a calling to you know help people.
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Um, and so that's like that's where I want to be, that's what I want to do.
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And so I went to the Navy recruiter, you know, after talking to the Marines and things like that.
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And um, I was like, hey, you know, if you know it's very unlikely, but if I pass Bud's SQT and all the SEAL training uh first time through, can you guarantee me in writing that I'll be a medic and not like a com dude or an intel guy or weapons guy?
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Whatever.
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Which does happen.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Uh they were like, absolutely not.
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So uh no.
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So I mean, I you know, at that point I had done a little bit of college, like I wasn't fresh out of high school, but you know, I was still pretty young, 20 years old.
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And um so I was like, all right, I'll I'll go in as a Navy Corpsman, I'll I'll figure my way out from there, and kind of throughout the process, you know, met a bunch of um SEALs, met a bunch of uh Marine Recon, Force Recon guys, and just the variability and the culture at the time, you know, I was very impressed um by the Marine Recon um and force recon guys, you know, just professional, knowledgeable, like straightforward, like mission first, that kind of thing.
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Um whereas I, you know, I SEALs have their own, you know, um way about them, we'll say um yeah, I was like, you know, who would I who would I rather be on a team and like deploying with and that kind of stuff?
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And so I I kind of threw the the SEAL dream to the side and went with the the recon route.
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And so for me that was an excellent choice.
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Um so from there, you know, it's roughly two two and a half year training pipeline um through that whole process, you know, you go you go through Navy boot camp, you do Navy core school to make you just like a basic Navy corpsman that can work on ships and do vitals and just IVs and super basic stuff.
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Um from there, you know, I went to every every male that was going through core school at the time was going greenside.
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So everybody's going to field med, um, which is kind of like the transition school that basically teaches you the basics, gives you the uniform of the Marine Corps with the camis and that kind of stuff.
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Um, and then from there, that's kind of where you screen to go into the recon corpsman pipeline.
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So from there, um, I did basic reconson's course out in Cap Pendleton, um, which is where all the Recon Marine train um went to basic airborne, out Fort Benning, Georgia.
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Did the at the time it was called the short course, right?
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The first six months of 18 Delta.
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Um, now they do like the full year.
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So through the training pipeline, they do the full year just like 18 Deltas.
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Um, but at the time it was like do the short course, which covers all the trauma, anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, like all that kind of stuff.
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Um, and then go to a deployment at a unit and come back and you'll finish it up, which is doing.
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Um, yeah.
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And we got we gotta pause and reflect on that because that few guys don't know.
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That is one of the hardest schools.
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Um, I am blessed to know a few guys that were instructors out there, you know, both you know, enlisted and and serving in the military, and then the guys that get out and then they're contractors.
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And let me tell you, some of the stories, some of the nightmares, uh, both from the students going through there and the cadre of of like, and you you have to imagine, like, these guys aren't gonna have, you know, everybody watches like the medical shows like ER.
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Fuck that.
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You want to you want to see real medical trauma?
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Go see what these dudes have to endure and like the training they go through.
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It's insane, dude.
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What you guys have done, Jordan, what you and every special operation medic goes through in that course, which by I have some of the most incredible cadre out there, uh, is it's insane, man.
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A year worth of your life just dedicated to medicine.
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And it's not just like, hey, sit down, we're gonna watch a PowerPoint.
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It's like it beating it into your face, and then like, oh yeah, by tomorrow, some of your best friends will not be here because they're going to fail.
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No, it's true.
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I mean I always look back and any other course after I attended the Fort Bragg schoolhouse, you know, J Somsey.
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Um I compare everything back to that.
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Like as I'm going through a training course or you know, something in my life and things like that, I compare it back to that schoolhouse and like how in-depth and thorough.
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And you know, a lot of times they'll say they essentially scrunch down med school into a a year and then add some extra stuff on top of it.
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Um, but it's crazy when you come out of there because the military is an interesting place for medicine, right?
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Because especially in these units, you know, whether it's an ODA or it's an MSOT or it's a SEAL platoon or whatever, you are out there in the middle of nowhere usually without a ton of support, and you have to make these medical decisions at a very high level, and doctors back in the United States wouldn't be willing to make some of these decisions, right?
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Yeah.
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Um, and being able to do these, you know, pretty extreme procedures with threshold blood transfusion or um amputation for surgeries or cracking in a chest, you know, um, it's just something and at the same time, like you're doing just basic sick call like colds and sniffles and seeing the local population, you know, for diabetes or whatever they got going on.
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Um so it's just of super interesting and like I don't I feel super blessed that that I was able to be able to do that and you know experience that um because it's just it's unlike anywhere else when you look at medicine.
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Oh, absolutely, man.
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It's insane.
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Um incredible training, incredible I mean, the it's one of the most well-run courses in the military.
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Far none.
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Uh it doesn't like you look across like special operations, especially like, and hey, you know what?
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I'll I'll I'll pick on my guys.
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You look at the the Green Beret community, like you can you know there's a couple 18 echoes that just kind of snuck through.
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Like, you know that you know there's a lot of 18 Brahmas just like, dude, there's something wrong with you mentally, cognitively, like something isn't working.
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Yep.
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And there are dudes where you're just like, fuck, I I would never want to play with this guy.
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I've never met an 18 Delta that I was like, fuck this, dude.
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Medically speaking, and like tactically, you know, the knowledge-wise, personality is a whole different thing.
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Some of you some of you guys are fucking weird.
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But uh the the the knowledge, the education, the the professionalism, um, and the ability to cross-train the the rest of the ODA.
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That's the thing.
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Because you can be passionate about medicine, you can be passionate about your skill set, but can you teach it?
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Can you make can you really truly become a force multiplier?
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And that's something that I really admired uh of the 18 Deltas that I was honored and blessed to work with.
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Because the answer to that question is is a very loud resounding yes.
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Like the the professionalism to teach the skill set, because they understand the importance of making other guys on that team just as skillful, just as valuable in the firefight if somebody gets hurt.
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And uh, it's up to you, it's up to you to pass that that knowledge on, and that's something that I love about the medical field uh in our military, whether it's you know your your regular platoon line medic, your doc, or somebody like yourself, like the passion is there to help teach and coach somebody because at the end of the day, and you know it, man, like Doc can't be everywhere at once.
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So he's gotta be able to, you know, create his uh little helpers, man.
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Yep.
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I mean, not only that, but you know, and part of it may be slightly selfish, but like if I go down, yeah, do I trust my guys to be able to, you know, do the things that I taught them to do?
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Um, and and so I mean that may also be a little bit of part of it, but um, I mean we train Marines, we train everybody around us, uh including you know Afghanistan, local nationals, uh, local police, national police, A, just a huge range.
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I mean, even working with doctors, you know, village doctors who, you know, one of the village doctors was trained in uh Pakistan.
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And so, you know, we dug into that at a different level than we would with, you know, your typical Afghan National Army medic, you know.
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Um, so there's huge, huge variety in all of that.
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Yeah, dude.
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And you man, like you go through all this, all this training, what was it like getting, you know, actually brought into the fold, actually showing up and being day, like, you know, I would imagine there there's uh a little bit of trepidation and a little bit of anxiety waiting to get on the on the ground and really be part of that, you know, that that unit that you looked up to, that you see these individuals like fuck, like recon Marines are not um they're not warm and fuzzy, they're not they're not prim and proper, man.
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Like they're they're fucking rough dudes.
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Yeah.
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Um, I mean, so after the aging delta school house, it was it was Marine Combatant Diver and then Dive Medicine, and then from there, me and my buddy were the only two that went through the whole pipeline without getting rolled back.
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Um shit.
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You know, no rollbacks or anything like that.
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We had a couple other guys that are class or two behind us, um, but we were the only two that made it from the original, um, I think it was I can't even remember, like six of us or something like that that were that were cormen.
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Um and typically typically it's like a a stair step approach, right?
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So usually they'll come out of the pipeline, they'll go to a recon unit, or um yeah, they'll go to a recon unit, and then from there, maybe they do a deployment uh as a Stark, they'll do maybe Force after that, and then maybe Marsok after that.
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But they were just like, hey, second MSOB Marine Special Operations Battalion has two sets of orders and we need two dudes.
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And so we're like, yes, absolutely we're going.
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It was, you know, the just the ramp up, and you know, throughout the whole training pipeline, you know, two, two and a half years, you know, the whole time they're like, you know, all the instructors, of course, are like, this is the basics, you know, and you're thinking to yourself, like, is this really the basics?
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Or, you know, am I just like losing my mind, right?
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And okay, so I made it through this two, two and a half year training pipeline.
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Like, I'm I'm pretty good, right?
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Like, I may not be the best in the world, but I'm pretty decent.
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Um man, we got to to Mars Ok to second MSOB, um, and the training curve was steep, to say the least.
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Um when they say that you know, this is just the basics, it it legitimately is just the basics.
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Um, and so it was a huge learning curve for both of us.
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Um, you know, going through shooting packages and sear and like working with different um intelligence assets and things like that.
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Um, and just on top of that, where you have to continue taking care of all the medical stuff, right?
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Because, you know, my guys are my guys, and I essentially own them medically.
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Um, so if they're walking into the battalion aid station uh without me, like there's an issue, right?
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Um so it's just it was a huge learning curve.
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And um fortunately I had some, you know, at the time it was like half and half, half the team was like former Force Recon dudes that kind of got grandfathered into MarSock because it was kind of you know, still kind of in its infancy, um, and the other half were new AS ITC graduates uh through the Marsock pipeline.
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Um but I had some incredible, you know, mentors and just you know, I I think I said this on another podcast, but you know, just remaining humble during that time and just like being a sponge, soaking everything up from tactically to medically to um intel wise or whatever the case might be, and just like pushing forward, you know, 110%.
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Um yeah.
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Yeah, dude.
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It is um it is nonstop.
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I don't think people understand like it.
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I mean, it it makes sense why we have so many issues on the backside with guys uh not being able to uh you know transition effectively, lives falling apart.
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It's go, go, go, go, go.
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It's the mission non-stop.
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And I I reflect back on it in my own life, and it is while you're in it, you it seems normal to you.
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Like, yeah, okay, you're you know you're part of something elite, but once you're in there, once you normalize it, it's like you know, you put friggin', they put you in a boiling pot, and you know, or they don't boil their friends, you just put you in a you know that scenario, that system of like pressure and increasingly turn it up.
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Uh, it's no different than frogs being put in a pot and then slowly turning up the heat, and before you know it, they're not gonna jump out, they're just getting acclimated and then they're boiling, man.
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Like in your career, in your experience, when you're going through that, like what were some of the things you experienced, man?
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What were some of the things that you were dealing with while you were going through it?
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Yeah, I mean, that was um so I did three combat deployments to Afghanistan on the same team, MSOT A211.
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No shit.
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Yeah, incredible team.
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:44.960
It was each deployment was interesting, you know, it's in its own way.
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:54.319
Um before, you know, I my wife and I got married, you know, between jump school and going to Fort Bragg.
00:21:58.640 --> 00:21:59.759
Probably not the best.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.240
Time.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.000
It's the most American thing ever.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:02.799
Yeah.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:11.039
But I mean, I brought her from Washington State, and you know, she never lived anywhere but her house in Washington.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.440
And now she's in Fort Bray, Fayetteville, North Carolina.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:16.160
You know?
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:16.799
Yeah.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:19.440
What is going on?
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:31.279
Um, and yeah, I mean, that's something a lot of people don't talk about, is like, especially in in special operations, you understand, like, okay, you're gonna be deploying a lot, all that kind of stuff.
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:42.880
But what people don't tell you until you get into it, really, from what my experience at least is during those times when you're not deployed, you're typically not home.
00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:47.440
You know, it's not like you're hanging out at home doing stuff at the office or whatever.
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:55.119
Like every once in a while that's the case, but more often so you're off training, you're doing XYZ in a different state.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:58.720
Um, and that's that's really rough on the family.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:12.319
Um, so I mean, for me, rolling into that, you know, I gave the wife like the pre-brief, you know, beforehand, like this is like I'm gonna be gone a lot, you know.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:20.960
Um, and for me, that first combat deployment was I guess you'd say like the most traumatic.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.119
I had the most amount of like serious casualties and things like that.
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.119
We had a mass casualty uh incident and things.
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:46.240
Um so for me, you know, compartmentalize mission first, you know, like that's how you're trained, and um just kind of push forward with it, and then you get back home and you know, rinse, wash, repeat, you know.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:24:34.079
Um and so throughout that time, and I just listened to your uh your your podcasts with the um with the priests and that kind of stuff, but like my heart got like hard, like pretty hard, you know, like okay, I've seen all of the trauma and the blood and the guts and the gore and I've um and friends die and local nationals die, and um you know, people kill themselves and and all this stuff, and my heart was just like hardened to the point where you know, especially by that second and third combat deployment, it was just like routine to you know trauma's the norm to like bring it on.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:34.880
Yeah.
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:36.319
Yeah, it's hard, man.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:44.559
And and uh the other thing people don't talk about is um how that affects you in the in your ability to be a good husband.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:25:00.000
Your ability to like, I mean, I will look we we don't want to say it, but that type of stuff makes it easy for you to become an even better fucking operator, makes it even easier for you to become a better because you're I hyper focus.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:17.519
You hyper focus on everything else, like lethality, your performance on the team, physical fitness, and yes, that can sound like I'm I'm painting it in the light of being the positive, like, oh, it makes you a better person.
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:22.640
Yeah, it makes you a better person in that specific set of skills.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:36.720
It it makes you drive that obsessive compulsive desire to be better in that arena, but everything else, I mean everything fucking else, becomes a fucking shit show real fucking quick.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:26:04.880
And I'm telling you, uh, just like all this stuff, doing it the wrong way can make you better and make you focus on it aggressively, um, there are other people to find a better way to become just if just as capable, if not better, um, by understanding what's more important in life, by getting help, by by really, I mean, you will burn out a lot faster if you're being fueled by hate and rage and alcohol.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.000
Man, that's the thing.
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:14.799
Like, as my heart hardened, you know, through those deployments, you know, the drinking went up.
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:22.640
Um I was I was not a good husband, like straight up, not a good husband.
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:40.160
Um and you know, I sacrificed essentially my family at the the altar of you know being a good operator and you know deploying and all that kind of stuff.
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:50.720
And of course, MarSock, you know, they'll throw money at me until I, you know, stop make more money, like let's go, let's go.
00:26:50.880 --> 00:27:08.559
Um so I mean that was kind of the routine, and it got to a point um by my third deployment where like my head was just in the gutter, you know, it was at a point in 2014 where um the rules of engagement were super constricted.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:13.920
And so we were like, what are we even doing here to begin with?
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:28.079
And um, you know, after that deployment, like I was just in the middle of doing, you know, drinking way too much, doing things I shouldn't be doing.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:38.480
Um had a terrible heart despite going to church every Sunday, you know, uh with my family as much as possible.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:48.960
Um and essentially just I didn't expect to live past 30 and I was living like it, you know.
00:27:49.440 --> 00:28:02.079
Um I'm I'm 40 now, so obviously I'm in unfortunate territory, but I'm in the whole bonus life right now.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:06.000
No, I get that, man.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.920
I I think that's the mentality that a lot of guys embodied.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:20.960
Yeah, I think even if we didn't walk away from the church, I know a lot of friends that went, but there was no connection.
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:25.039
There was there was no obedience in in in the faith.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:30.079
There was no believing it was just, hey, I'm gonna keep appearance, and yeah, it's what we do as a family.
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:38.160
And you know, and and you know, you you fake it, fake it till you make it, but for a lot of guys, it wasn't even fake it till you make it.
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.119
It was just reps.
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.200
Like I hey, whatever I do, gotta keep the family together, keep the family.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.759
The wife's gonna be happy if I go to church, I'm just gonna go.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.680
But we weren't, you know, a lot of us weren't embodying any of the teachings.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:56.640
It's just you know, you you're living a dual life, man, not really inhabiting both.
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:01.759
Like you're really you're when you're in the office, so to speak, it's fucking awesome.
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:09.279
It's great being around the boys, and then when you're on trips, like I always say it like we live for the deployments.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:12.319
Everything that we're doing is like, fuck, when's the next one?
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:14.799
When's that that training calendar gonna say?
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:16.079
Afghanistan.
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:16.640
Yeah.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:28.000
Like yeah, and I mean, I look back and you know, it it seems like I was actively trying to, you know, destroy my marriage at that point.
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.720
Um, you know, at that point we had two kids.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:46.079
Um, the first one the first one was born right before my first deployment, and we actually deployed uh on Thanksgiving in 2010 and left my wife with a two-week old baby, you know.
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:50.880
Um and I was like, see ya, I'm gonna do this thing.
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:51.680
Yeah.
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:53.759
And you got it right.
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.279
I mean, you're doing good, looks fine.
00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.680
I will see you in six to eight.
00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:01.039
Yep, yep.
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:18.240
Um, yeah, I got to the point after that third deployment where it was just like I was actively trying to destroy my marriage just with my actions, with my thought processes, things like that, um, with the drinking, and my mental health wasn't good.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:34.640
Um, but I had a point where it was um springtime of 2015, and they were trying to get me to essentially jump forward a cycle to deploy with um a different team or a different company.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:37.359
Um, and I was like, yeah, I'm on board for that.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:52.960
Um and you know, I got to the point where I was like, okay, these, you know, these things that I'm doing, the drinking, like all this stuff, is one, it's not good, it's not productive.
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.000
Two, I'm just I'm gonna stop it, right?
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:00.480
And so I'm gonna stop it, and then everything's gonna be better.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:12.720
Um, and I was actually, I was driving home off of Camp Lejeune, and I was like rationally rationalizing with myself, okay, I have to stop these things.
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:21.680
I don't need to tell my wife, I just need to stop them, and I need to, you know, um be good essentially from here on out.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:22.480
Yeah.
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:28.720
And dude, I was in the car and had my first panic attack ever.
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:51.519
I was listening to K-Love on the radio, and they talked about like that specific thing of needing to like confess and um have other people hold you accountable, and like you can't just stop doing stuff, like you need to have a heart change and do uh just like panic attack immediately.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:59.759
Like, I had to pull over to the side of the road and you know, go through like my medical procedures of just like okay, how do I recover from this?
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:08.799
Um, and then from there, you know, I I got home and essentially just laid everything out for my wife.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:19.200
Um and man, she is one, an incredible blessing, and two, um, an incredibly strong and godly woman.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:33.039
Um, you know, we uh I ended up taking 44 days of leave straight um at that point and was like, we need to work on our marriage.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:38.480
I need to work on myself and not being all jacked up and mental health and everything.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:49.759
Um so we took that time as like a downtime, and then finally I was like, you know, I'm not gonna do this, you know, another deployment.
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.039
Um we're gonna take a break, right?
00:32:54.160 --> 00:33:08.799
Um and so as our marriage is is kind of healing and you know it that whole process takes years, really, um, on both parts um for both the husband and the wife.
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.039
You know, I'm still working through mental health stuff and things like that.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.880
And I'm sure we'll get to it, you know, being a journey, man.
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:17.920
It's a journey.
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.720
Like the the thing that people need to understand.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.640
And I look, I get it.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:26.240
I I I read the DMs, I I read your emails.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:40.960
When someone wants change, they want to they want that magic intervention, like I'm ready to give up drinking, I'm I'm ready, I'm ready to get sober, I'm ready to do better, I'm ready not to be depressed or have anxiety and and and never have to deal with the shit for the rest of my life.
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.119
And I'm like, yeah, I like where your head's at.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.599
I love that, I love that attitude.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:46.319
Come over here.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:49.359
I'm gonna whisper something that you may not like.
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.279
It is an ongoing journey.
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:58.160
Usually you're starting it, you're starting it, and there's definitely you're gonna get better, but you're gonna have bad days, man.
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:12.400
And like nothing, I I the uh the amount of guys from our walk alive that talk about having moments that the panic attack in a car is such a common thread, dude.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:22.480
Like, I don't know why it hits us when we're in cars, but every dude, and I hey, I'll I'll I'll shoot this one to you guys in the Sabbath group.
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:28.480
The amount of time you guys have reached out, and I hear stories of like, dude, I'm driving over the Dustin Bridge and I'm like fucking freaking the fuck out.
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:31.920
I'm gonna drive off and I'm like, yeah, dude, you're not alone.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:33.760
Uh it's called a panic attack.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:35.440
Calm down, you're gonna be fine.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.519
I don't know why the car hits us, man.
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:42.559
Uh, but I I I know exactly I know exactly what you're talking about, dude.
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:48.159
And I think that so many of us, it finally that it's that last drop in the bucket, man.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:54.320
It's that last thing that like, you know, some of us it's it's a trip to a mental health hospital.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:00.559
Uh and some of us are blessed to have that clarity that ask for leave and start working on it.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:02.719
But a lot of us don't have that.
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:21.199
A lot of us, the story is left uh in a haunting ending, uh, a a chapter that's heartbreaking of somebody that dives into that last desperate action of doing something that's you know incredibly rash and and and and not necessary, but they don't see a way out, man.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:21.599
Yeah.
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:26.960
And like, how did you and and to dive dive back into the story?
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.880
How were you able to build things back up with your wife?
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:45.360
Because now more than ever, that's something that a lot of us are are starting to navigate and starting to walk that path of like healing together with a wife, somebody that's been there in in your case from the very friggin' beginning.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.159
Yeah.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:51.519
No, for for us, um it was the church, you know.
00:35:51.679 --> 00:36:11.519
Um while I was gone on deployment, she had found, you know, this new church, and man, the the men in this church, um it wasn't like, hey, shake your hand, nice to see you, it's Sunday, you know, have a good week, see you later.
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:22.400
It was like they were active in digging into your life and like, hey, how are you actually doing with you know whatever it is?
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.639
Um, like, how's your week going?
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:26.719
How can we be praying for you?
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:33.920
Um and so that was a huge catalyst in um building that back.
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:45.199
And my wife and I sat down with our pastor and his wife um multiple, multiple times, so many times, um, especially over those 44 days of leave.
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:53.679
Um but without the church, I think it probably would not be possible.
00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:14.159
Um they were just uh there when we needed them, and um they weren't passive, they were you know proactive in you know wanting to get into our lives and and things like that.
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.719
A lot of people get closed off by that, you know.
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.239
They're like, oh, why you know leave me alone, like I'm just here to do my thing and like leave.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:32.719
Um but having that active component was especially in the men for me, um, was something that I never experienced.
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:40.400
You know, I grew up in the in a church and that kind of stuff, but it was like, yeah, I go to church on Sundays, but that's kind of just what we do on Sundays.
00:37:40.639 --> 00:38:02.960
Um so having that active component of like, hey, what's actually going on in your life and like how can we help you and like rally together um was an incredible blessing, and really um one of the the points that kind of help save and and rebuild our marriage and like how do we do this?
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:11.760
How do we you know rejoin together after all of this damage has been done, um and do that biblically.
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:16.320
Um so yeah, for uh for us it was the church.
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:17.920
Dude, that's awesome.
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:22.320
Yeah, it and it just goes to show, man, mind, body, and spirit.
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:33.920
Um you can be broken and and deficient in like one or two of those areas, but like if you don't have that third pillar, uh you're gonna fall harder, man.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.000
It's just a known factor at this point.
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.519
Uh and hey, look, do do the research on your own.
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:40.159
Figure it out.
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:41.599
I'm not pushing anything on you.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:41.920
Yeah.
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.800
Um, I'm I'm just I'm telling you guys, listening.
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:46.159
This is your journey.
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:50.480
I I can share my testimony and and Jordan can share his.
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:56.960
And you know, every recently here on this show, like every dude that's come on shares the same story.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:59.760
Like, we're not perfect, we're very flawed individuals.
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:00.880
Yes, we are.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:06.480
Nobody that's like hot, we you know, nobody that's crushing life, except for the officers.
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:12.559
There's a lot of special operations officers are like from like Brown and Yale and like professionals, athletes and shit.
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:18.239
Like, but by and large, the enlisted guys we're not we're not crushing life.
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:30.400
Like, we we are broken and we find ourselves in this great arena with giants, and like we prove ourselves to be there, to you know, be there with them, and it becomes highly in it's intoxicating, man.
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:33.199
It's addictive to be around that environment.
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:38.159
You know, you grow up not being worth a shit, and now you're fucking soaring with eagles.
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:44.559
You'll do anything to stay there, and you do it, you'll do anything to tell yourself that that's the peak of your life.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:45.519
That's the greatest thing.
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:57.760
When in reality, the greatest thing that you can ever experience is being a committed husband and father, being a committed mentor, being somebody that pours back in other people, being somebody that puts good in the world.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:04.480
Yes, being a warrior, being being somebody that fights for for those that are oppressed is great.
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:14.559
But by and large, where you are needed the most is at home with a family and a wife, and and and being a productive member of your community, man, that's a great calling.
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:18.800
If you can add in there uh a man of God, dude, you're crushing it.
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.679
Crushing it.
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.079
That's the real thing that you should be worried about.
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:29.840
But we, you know, we we only have the skill sets that we were brought up with, and I wasn't brought up to value any of that stuff.
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.880
And when I got in the, and I'm sure it was the same way for you.
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:41.840
Uh when you, even though you were going to church, like when you see the guys to your left and right that are friggin' killers, they're crushing it.
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.880
The last thing they're probably doing is like, hey, let's go worship.
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:45.440
Yep.
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.840
Let's go do a Bible study together.
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:52.800
Hey, before we go out on this mission, let's let's do a quick prayer together as brothers.
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:59.599
Like, and I get it, it can be awkward to start that, but I I I I know there are teams out there that did that stuff.
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.159
I know there are guys within teams that did it.
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.840
Yeah, and uh that's all all I'm saying is you can do both.
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:37.360
You can be a Marsawk Raider, you can be a force recon marine, you can be a Green Beret, you can be a Ranger, you can be a SEAL, and still be somebody that's deeply connected and rooted in their faith because as you're diving into your story, it it's a testimony of like how it can save you, man, how it can give you back the you know, you can't undo the damage, you can't undo the the arguments, but it can help you build the best version of yourself that your wife really needs, that your kids really need, man.
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:38.480
Yeah.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.199
Sorry, we I mean we had guys like that, you know.
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:47.119
He was on a different team, but we called him preacher.
00:41:47.360 --> 00:42:12.079
Um, you know, and so like not to like give him a hard time, um, but we actually like respected that about him, um, and and how he acted, not just you know, backstayside, but on deployment, you know, like our job is to go, you know, take care of terrorists, you know, kill people potentially, like all this stuff.
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:26.639
And you know, he was able to kind of remain, you know, he had his struggles like everybody, but remain focused on on God and and the things that he should and taking care of his family and things like that.
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:28.239
So yeah.
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:30.239
There's definitely guys like it.
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.440
Um I was not strong enough to be that same, same, dude.
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:48.480
It it's you know, when you um I look at it now with the lens of like, man, like we we didn't like we should never worship or idolize anybody.
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:49.440
That's not the thing.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:43:01.840
But right as kids coming up in teams, as young men coming up in teams and in the special operations world, like you look up to and you admire the guys that are promoted within the culture.
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:08.000
And for the G Wat culture, it was not the godly man.
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:16.800
It was not the guy that was going to church and like you know, having you know, Sunday dinner with his wife and kids and and doing everything he could to get back.
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:21.039
It was a very broken mentality that we were promoting.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:45.760
Go get drunk, go get a Harley, get a divorce, burn it all down, and have like these, these, like, you know, we we we looked up to these caricatures, these fictionalized accounts of what a real warrior was, and we never stopped to think of ourselves like to ourselves of what really makes a warrior historically, biblically, like what makes a really good warrior, like who's the guy that we should be looking up to?
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:54.960
And and not just looking up to, but who are the people we should be studying and thinking about and and and really taking notes from?
00:43:55.519 --> 00:44:03.519
And you know, we got five finger death punch and uh Or the other let the body drowning pool, let the body hit the floor.
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:05.519
Like it's like that that's it.
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:11.199
That's uh it's the G Watt mentality of like, yeah, dude, like we're gonna go there and and and crush it.
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:14.320
It's like no dude, like the wrong idea.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:14.639
Yeah.
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.360
I mean, we look biblically and we look at David, right?
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:40.800
Yeah, incredible warrior, also had super big sinful things that he did, um, but had the heart of God and played like musical instruments and like wrote poetry and just like you like that to me is what you should aspire to be.
00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:47.679
Um but yeah, G Watt dudes, um yeah.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:58.800
I I mean I got my motorcycle after my first deployment, and like dude, the first deployment, we were riding around Afghanistan like a biker game.
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:06.079
We had a couple sidebars, and the rest of us were on motorcycles just like going to find Taliban, you know.
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:08.800
We need to make a new line of stickers.
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:11.679
Only bad guys ride bikes in Afghanistan.
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.960
That was a that's that is a a real quick understanding like pivotal truth.
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:18.320
Like, are they on bikes?
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:18.880
Yeah.
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:21.039
All right, they're Taliban.
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.280
Shout out to the Bach Boys Motorcycle Club.
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.719
That's the sticker right there.
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:28.800
Uh that's a sticker.
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:30.719
Uh, don't don't steal that from me.
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:31.519
Let me have that.
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:35.360
Let me let me have that idea, uh, audience out there listening.
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:36.480
But it's true, man.
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:53.599
Like, we promoted and I think it comes from like that mentality of like if you if we want to see more professionalism, then we need to embody professionalism and and godliness and in our life.
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.960
Like ultimately, like, we're not gonna shift the culture.
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:58.400
We're uh we're done, we're out.
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:02.639
Well what we can do is use the tools that we have now.
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.000
Platforms like this, being willing to talk about what really is cool.
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:07.840
Like, you know what's gonna be really cool?
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:21.920
The next generation of um special operations guys that you know are are focused on family, are focused on their performance, are focused on their faith, are focused on being the best version of themselves because the mission demands it.
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:32.239
The professionalism that you you wish we could have seen you know throughout our entirety of our service.
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:38.400
Like and I look back and it's not to say that everybody was, you know, a drug addict, an alcohol, a wife beater.
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:39.760
No, absolutely not.
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:49.920
Yeah, but by and large we had the wrong culture to admire and look up to.
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:50.480
We did.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:55.360
The the Harley and drinking and and womanizing thing, that's overplayed.
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.239
That's so dumb.
00:46:56.639 --> 00:47:04.480
Like we in and I think the next generation is uh gonna be better served by guys like yourself and myself talking about it.
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:12.159
Like, because their kids are gonna listen to this stuff, uh younger men are gonna listen to this stuff, they're gonna see that, and there's so many people talking about it now.
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:19.920
The the pitfalls of thinking that we have to glamorize this uh this crazy way of living.
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:33.280
Like it's not yeah, there's there's a way that you can have fun and enjoy the adventure and still value what's really more important because at the end of the day, you're gonna retire.
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:44.239
I I want you guys to do your 20 years and get out of the military and enjoy it, but that's gonna come with at best a plaque with one or two misspellings.
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:46.480
At best.
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:56.239
No, that one doesn't have any misspellings, but it it it's it's a it's a small reminder of a small moment in your in your career.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:16.000
The the bigger thing you should be looking at is like your effects at home, what you're gonna have in your family, and you know, in this next chapter, Jordan, like what have you guys uh been working towards and how did you transition from that chaotic life into a more you know manageable life while it's still serving?
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:20.320
Because there's a whole side of the military, your journey where you weren't on a team.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:21.119
Yeah.
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:34.559
Um so first I will say not being on a team, and I mean, still to this day, sometimes feels like I abandoned them, right?
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:38.079
Especially as the medic, uh as the corpsman.
00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:40.559
Like that was my role.
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:45.280
Like that's you know, that was my effectively my identity, right?
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:52.480
Like it's my job and my whole effort to take care of Marine sailors and their families.
00:48:52.719 --> 00:49:03.920
Um you know, I I took care of plenty of dudes' wives, um, you know, in hotel rooms and in, you know, their homes and just like randomly.
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.679
In a medical pro medical situation.
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:09.199
Yes.
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:10.960
Medical situations.
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.599
Gotta gotta get ahead of the peanut gallery.
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:20.480
Oh, yeah.
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:31.199
Um but yeah, I mean, even today, like I said, uh it at times feels like you know, I abandoned that.
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:38.880
But yeah, at the time it was, you know, okay, how do I how do I mend my marriage?
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.559
How do I fix my family?
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:44.880
Um and so essentially I I took an instructor billet.
00:49:45.119 --> 00:50:06.400
Um, and kind of during through that that process of being an instructor, it was like either I'm going to get out and be a PA or I'm going to stay in and be a PA, um, whichever happens, whatever, but that's kind of like the only route really I saw.
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:11.760
Um so I applied for the military PA program, right?
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:19.519
IPAP interservice PA program, uh, where all the military PAs go who train through the military.
00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:34.079
It's about half and half where you know somebody gets trained civilian side and then comes in the military, and the other half is essentially um born through the military as enlisted and then comes up through the ranks.
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:44.000
So I got accepted in that, and so that was kind of like my my clear answer of like, I guess I'm gonna go do the military PA thing.
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:57.920
Um and like I said earlier, when I compare everything back to the Fort Briggs schoolhouse, man, PA school, like it didn't it didn't match up.
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:02.960
Uh I personally I expected more um out of that.
00:51:03.199 --> 00:51:25.440
And even when you look at uh like the cadaver labs and things like that, like we had more um capabilities and that kind of stuff at the Fort Briggs Schoolhouse than this joint, very large you know, army unit and navy, and we had Coast Guard, we had Marines, we had Air Force, like everybody was in there.
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:36.639
But the it's still just like any other military unit, like they weren't screening and selecting instructors to be PA instructors.
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:41.199
Um, it was like whoever gets orders there is is you know where they're going.
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:42.559
So it was kind of hit or miss.
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:45.519
You know, there was definitely some some good points in that.
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:53.360
Um but as far as you know comparing that back to Fort Bragg, like I was underimpressed, I'll say.
00:51:53.599 --> 00:52:15.440
Um but came out on the other side, you know, we did um about a year and a half down in San Antonio, Texas, and then it's um supposed to be about 13 months we did in San Diego for clinical rotations, but for us, because it was COVID and we got delayed, you know, it was it was closer to like a year and a half or so.
00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:24.159
From there, um, you know, you get the orders list like rack and stack uh with your classmates, and you got to fight over it.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:31.440
So um, you know, I I wanted to stay my heart was with the Marines.
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:40.800
So um I wanted to stay with the Marines, and that was either go to Okinawa or 29 Palms, and there were multiple sets of 20 M Palms orders.
00:52:41.199 --> 00:52:43.199
So surprise.
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:45.199
Surprise, surprise.
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:54.800
So yeah, from there, I mean, as a PA, um, I went to Victor 37, 3rd Battalion, 7th Marines.
00:52:55.199 --> 00:53:14.400
Um we you know, I was just seeing patients, uh, my Marines as a PA, and we did a a deployment, uh deployment to Australia uh for the Marine Rotational Force Um in Darwin.
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:20.960
And really that was you know, for me at least, it was just like doing my job in the States.
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:27.519
But you know, we were in Australia and it was more of a vacation than anything else, honestly.
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:28.320
Heck yeah.
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:29.440
Yeah.
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:30.480
Nice.
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:31.760
So I mean you need those.
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:33.039
You work your butt off, man.
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:35.519
Those are you gotta have those good experiences, man.
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:39.440
Like it can't be uh a field training exercise always.
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:41.280
Yep.
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:42.639
Yeah.
00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:44.559
So I mean that was a good time.
00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:56.239
Um came back from that and looking at orders, and they had some like, you know, they want you to be well-rounded and that kind of stuff in the Navy.
00:53:56.400 --> 00:54:04.559
And so they had like a clinic in Louisiana or someplace, and you know, all this random other stuff.
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:11.360
And I was like, uh like we're good here in 29 Palms, like my family doesn't mind it.
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:31.440
Uh so uh essentially I just I moved from upstairs to downstairs at the at the clinic, and that was actually my first and and last legitimate, you know, Navy command outside of you know boot camp and that kind of stuff.
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:45.679
And it was the first time in years, you know, that I had been not either in a a high um opt tempo training environment or in a deployable unit.
00:54:46.079 --> 00:55:05.679
Um and you blueside navy, like I know we were still seeing Marines and that kind of stuff, but all the staff was Blue Side Navy, and it was the most toxic leadership environment I have seen in my entire career.
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:09.840
Um not looking good, Navy, not good luck.
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:11.039
Sorry.
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:34.559
Um that was just my experience, and you know, like throughout my career at that point I had what 17 years, 16, 17 years in at that point, and so like I had my share of you know, good leaders, bad leaders, and like in between, you know, um, but man, this that was the worst ever.
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:41.440
Um just super toxic environment.
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:45.440
And as a PA, you know, they just have you in there.
00:55:46.000 --> 00:56:00.079
Essentially, I was like a overpaid, you know, HM3 that just saw a bunch of patients, and it was just like, go sit in your office, see all these patients, go home at the end of the day.
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:18.719
Um and I think you know, on top of that, my mind and my body were like, okay, we're not we're not in danger anymore, we're not deploying, we're not um super ramped up for this training program or whatever.
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:23.119
Now's a good time to to like take a break.
00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:30.960
And dude, my like all my mental health issues like piled on top of each other at the same time.
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:34.880
Like my testosterone crashed to somewhere around 100 or something.
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:36.480
I don't remember the exact number.
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:49.199
Um, but it was like all this stuff happened at once, all the TBIs, you know, all the effects from that, and the memory and moving slow, and all uh, you know, a tremor and like all these different things.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:52.960
They just my body and mind were like, okay, cool.
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:55.039
We we're in rest mode now.
00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:55.199
Yeah.
00:56:55.360 --> 00:56:58.559
So let's just like give up on compensation.
00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:11.519
So yeah, um, and that's when you know the um so I ended up going to like the TBI clinic and things like that, and it it was great.
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:22.320
Um they give me a lot of tools at the TBI clinic to be able to deal with things and cope with things, um, but it doesn't fix you, right?
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:30.239
Like you're not gonna go back through all those explosions and things like that and and actually fix your physiology, right?
00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:41.440
Um and so like through that pro, you know, that program, you know, I ended up getting put the Navy calls it LimDU or limited duty.
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:50.400
Um, and that's really like a dedicated period to like, okay, we're gonna do these treatment protocols in hopes that you get better.
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:57.440
Well, that lasts up to potentially a year, and things weren't necessarily getting better.
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:01.119
And so that's when I went up for a medical board.
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:16.559
Um, so at that point, going through the medical board process was um it was difficult, uh, but it was it was a lot slower than I would expect.
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:24.800
And um what ended up happening, you know, is they they found me unfit, medically speaking.
00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:35.280
Um number one diagnosis at the top was PTSD chronic, followed by musculoskeletal things, followed by TBI, etc.
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:49.920
Um and so you know, through that whole process, I'm still like I'm seeking care, I'm seeing all these different providers, which for me is weird because I'm a provider, you know.
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:51.760
Like, yeah, yeah.
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:53.519
How did that work out?
00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:54.320
Yeah.
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.440
Uh not awesome.
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:21.599
So I mean you know, I I go into each one of these encounters like expecting a certain thing or assuming they're gonna do a certain thing, and usually I ended up being right, but man, I have gone through like six or eight different antidepressant medications, uh, medications for nightmares, all the kind of like tons of different medications.
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:31.199
I've gone through um all the counseling therapies and like all these different things from CBT to CPT to EMDR.
00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:40.800
Um, I even got did um prolonged exposure and I got a stelic ganglion block, and none of these things really worked.
00:59:41.519 --> 01:00:00.880
And then essentially what happened is um I was found unfit with the med medical board, and there's the Navy has a program where essentially for people 18 to 20 years, they can allow you to kind of stay in to hit your 20.
01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:02.960
Yeah, so I applied for that.
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:05.599
My command told me they submitted it.
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:12.800
A couple weeks later, I got a notification saying you're being medically retired in six weeks.
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:24.719
And um, when I talked to the personnel command, I was like, hey, did they like did you guys just not approve this this program?
01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:27.840
And they're like, No, your command never submitted it.
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:28.719
Oh my god.
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:32.960
And I was like, All right, Roger that.
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:37.280
Um that's that's almost worse than them denying it.
01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:39.039
They never even fucking filed it.
01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:40.880
The incompetence, dude.
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:43.039
Yeah, oh my gosh.
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:51.199
So I mean, that was frustrating, but at the same time, I was at, you know, this was what six months ago.
01:00:51.360 --> 01:01:00.960
I was at a point in my life where I'm like, hey, I'm gonna do as much as I can um for my career, for my family, for all that kind of stuff.
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:06.480
Um, and everything else that's out of my control, I'm just leaving up to God.
01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:14.800
So whatever happens is, you know, that's what's meant to happen to me and to my family.
01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:37.039
And so um, one of the things coming out of that is right before I got medically retired, my primary care manager gave me a referral to um this clinic, Karma, um, that does transcranial magnetic stimulation TMS.
01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:58.400
And that was probably one of the things that made me more angry than any, more than my command not submitting the paperwork, like more than anything, is the fact that not only did I never hear about TMS as a patient, but I never heard about TMS as a provider.
01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:02.880
And I've been a provider in the Navy for almost 20 years, right?
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:11.280
And there's this clinic in 29 poems in the middle of nowhere that that does this stuff.
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:48.400
Um and I actually ended up, you know, afterwards linking up with uh a a nurse colleague that um worked in my clinic previously and she knew these people, and that's where I work now is with with Karma TMS, and I do um I do medication management and things like that, but uh honestly I prefer not to um just because this TMS stuff, like I've seen not just in myself, um it's definitely not a magic bullet, you know.
01:02:48.559 --> 01:03:01.199
Oh yeah, like still have issues, but like I've gone through it and seen for myself, you know, the increase in mood regulation and sleep and like all these different things.
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:09.519
On top of it, I've seen the patient my patients, you know, that go through this TMS and come out on the other end.
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:28.880
You know, we had a um a Vietnam guy who for 20 plus years was experiencing, you know, all these horrible side effects of being in combat consistently and then you know society not even recognizing that he'd gone through all this stuff.
01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:40.880
Um we see military spouses with postpartum depression and um spouses that are breastfeeding and pregnant and like all this stuff.
01:03:41.199 --> 01:04:02.320
And you know, we don't have to throw pills at them that have all these side effects, but we can use a magnetic pulse to kind of awaken portions of their brain um with a depression, anxiety, PTSD that are kind of subdued and um overwhelmed with all the you know repeat trauma and things like that.
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:13.119
Um so for me, like it's it's honestly I'm glad that they got me out earlier than 20.
01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:26.639
You know, yeah, maybe I don't get my pension or whatever, but like I'm able to help these patients and um see the results of that and their mental health.
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:34.320
And my mission is still the mission that I had when I was active duty, which is take care of marine sailors and their families.
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:38.000
And like that's going so well.
01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:44.559
Um, so yeah, that's my current status.
01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:47.519
You wrap that up so well, man.
01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:49.119
That's perfect, dude.
01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:53.760
The first guess that just perfectly segues towards the end.
01:04:54.880 --> 01:05:00.079
Well, dude, how can we find out more about your current current mission and where you're working at now?
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:00.880
Yep.
01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:04.400
So um you can go to karmatms.com.
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:09.760
Um they have a like a consultation thing on there.
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:19.840
Um so we do have offices here in 20 and Palms in um Rancho Mirage and in Palm Springs.
01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:26.480
There are multiple VA facilities that also have TMS capability.
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:33.519
Usually there's only like one chair and it's booked out for who knows how long.
01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:42.880
Um, but definitely, you know, I haven't I haven't dug into the psychedelic and the iba gain and all that kind of stuff.
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:48.559
Um, but this to me is more accessible than that.
01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:49.199
Oh yeah.
01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:55.760
Um merch a lot easier to get right now for a lot of guys, especially if you're still in.
01:05:55.840 --> 01:06:03.920
Because let me tell you guys, if you're listening and you're still in the military uh and military, please, please utilize every resource you can use right now.
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:09.440
Don't do anything to get in trouble because a lot of the psychedelics uh are not accessible to you.
01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:14.719
And there's a lot of people that will uh just fill your heads up with a lot of myths.
01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:20.400
So please reach out to Jordan, reach out to Karma, be willing to try this stuff out.
01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:22.480
Um, it'll change your life, man.
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:23.039
It will.
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:24.800
Uh, you don't have to continue suffering.
01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:26.320
Make the judgment call today.
01:06:26.559 --> 01:06:28.159
Talk to somebody, reach out.
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:34.960
More importantly, man, um be willing to have the hard discussion with your family, with your wife, with your kids.
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:36.880
They see you in a whole different light.
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:40.159
A lot of times you think you're the great, well-adjusted individual.
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:43.920
In reality is you're coming home with a lot of stuff that's bleeding off on them.
01:06:44.159 --> 01:06:46.559
So that's the last thing I'm gonna leave you with.
01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:48.719
Jordan, thank you so much for being here, man.
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.360
Thanks for watching.
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:51.039
Where can people follow your journey, man?
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:52.719
Where can it connect with you online?
01:06:53.199 --> 01:06:56.159
Uh, so Instagram is CodreJ Dub.
01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:58.079
Uh I love that.
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:01.280
I do I do the I do the GoRuck events as well.
01:07:01.360 --> 01:07:02.400
So nice, dude.
01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:06.639
Um, otherwise, Facebook is Jordan Wilkins.
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:07.920
I'm on LinkedIn.
01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:10.400
Um, I don't do the TikTok thing.
01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:13.199
So that's okay, don't need it.
01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:17.519
And Jordan, thank you so much for being here, brother.
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:19.440
Guys, thank you guys for tuning in.
01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:20.719
We'll see you all next time.
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:22.480
Till then, take care.