Scripture Matters Podcast — S2E13 — Heaven Matters

WEBVTT
00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.280
Heaven matters.
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:46.240
He knew the road before he ever saw the sign.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:52.960
It had been years since he had driven it, but there's some roads your memory never really forgets.
00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.000
Yeah, he remembered where the curve was coming.
00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:58.640
Where that old gas station used to sit.
00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:08.239
Where the road dipped just enough that as a boy, his stomach would rise when his father would drive over it just a little too fast.
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:10.560
You know, some things were different now.
00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:14.480
A grocery store stood where an empty field used to be.
00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:18.159
That little restaurant his family loved, well, it was gone.
00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.640
Even the trees looked smaller than he remembered.
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.000
Or maybe he had simply gotten older.
00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:32.400
Yeah, he had lived a lot of life since the last time this place had been home.
00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:42.000
Different cities, different houses, jobs, and responsibilities, years that somehow pass more quickly than he had ever thought they would.
00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:51.439
But through it all, whenever somebody asked him where he was from, this was still the place that he named.
00:01:51.920 --> 00:02:02.000
And more times than he could count, after a long day or a difficult season, he'd caught himself saying the same thing.
00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.159
Tonight he finally was.
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.120
He turned on to the old street where he had grown up.
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:17.599
The houses seemed closer together than he remembered.
00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.560
Then he saw it.
00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:27.919
Same brick, same front steps, same big tree near the driveway.
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:33.520
And glowing beside the front door, the porch light.
00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.719
He couldn't help it, but he smiled.
00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:39.360
Somebody had left it on for him.
00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:48.080
He pulled into the driveway, turned off the ignition, and for a moment he didn't move.
00:02:48.319 --> 00:02:52.319
He just sat there looking at that house.
00:02:53.360 --> 00:03:01.759
Strange thing about home, you can spend years imagining what it'll feel like to return.
00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:08.240
And then when the moment finally comes, words have trouble keeping up.
00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:14.479
He stepped out of the car and walked slowly toward that old porch.
00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:18.719
Every single step seemed to carry a memory with it.
00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.000
Running through that yard as a little boy.
00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.120
Sitting on those steps after school.
00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:30.879
Hear him, someone call him inside because supper was ready.
00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:37.759
He reached for that front door, raised his hand to knock.
00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:43.360
But before his knuckles ever touched the wood, the door opened.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.479
Yeah, somebody had been watching for him.
00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:48.319
There was a smile.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:51.199
Then open arms.
00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.520
And only two words.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:56.159
Your home.
00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:05.680
Neither did the driveway.
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:07.439
Or the brick.
00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:10.319
Or even that torchlight.
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:16.240
Because what made that place home was never really the house.
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:19.360
It was who was there.
00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.319
Christians use that word a lot.
00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:26.160
Home.
00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.199
You know, we sing about home.
00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:32.160
We pray about going home.
00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.639
We even comfort one another with the hope of going home.
00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:49.759
But maybe before we spend an entire conversation describing what heaven is like, we need to ask a more important question.
00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:58.399
What are we really longing for when we say, I want to go home?
00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:10.079
You've tuned in to the Scripture Matters Podcast, produced and published in cooperation with the Waters Road Church of Christ.
00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:15.120
Looking for a church home in the Houston area that lovingly stands upon God's Word?
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:18.560
Waters Road is the place where you belong.
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:29.040
If you need more information about the Waters Road Church of Christ, check out their website at www.wrc.org.
00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:37.839
We'd like to thank each of you who helped make this podcast possible, especially the prayerful support of our wives and families.
00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:45.120
And now, good folks, let's get back to another episode of the Scripture Matters Podcast.
00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:51.360
Good afternoon, good folks.
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:56.160
Twelve conversations have brought us to this one.
00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:01.199
And what a privilege it is to arrive here together.
00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:07.120
Welcome to season two's finale of the Scripture Matters Podcast.
00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:08.800
My name is Jonathan Sanford.
00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:13.839
I'm privileged to serve as the pulpit minister for the Waters Road Church of Christ.
00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:20.000
And across the screen from me at this time is my good friend and co-host Cliff Thompson.
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:24.240
He's one of our elders and one of our great Bible class teachers.
00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:30.560
You know, Jonathan, hearing those subjects at the beginning really brought out a lot of emotion.
00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:31.279
Yeah.
00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:38.639
We've covered some difficult ground this season, and we have not been talking about other people's lives.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.879
We have been examining our own too.
00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:43.920
Yeah, that's right.
00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:44.879
We certainly have.
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:46.639
Think about it, forgiveness.
00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:51.040
It sounds different when you are the one who's been hurt.
00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:57.040
Faithfulness becomes personal when you are the one who's tired.
00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:05.839
And hope, man, it means so much more when you are the one waiting for something that you cannot yet see.
00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:12.000
That is what makes finishing this season so very meaningful, Jonathan.
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:18.319
These are not conversation we leave behind just because the next episode comes along.
00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:21.920
We are still learning to live what we have been discussing.
00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:30.319
Yeah, and to everyone who has made this journey over the past 12 episodes before today, two words for you.
00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:31.199
Thank you.
00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:34.079
You've given us your time.
00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:43.759
You've shared these episodes, and you've helped people to find this program who we might have never reached ourselves.
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:57.759
And Jonathan, speaking of folks who have been with us this season, I understand that we have a birthday coming out, and I want to give a shout-out to someone very special to us here at the Scripture Matters Podcast.
00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:58.879
Yes, Cliff, we do.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:14.319
Friends, uh folks, a very dear sister in Christ has spent this entire second season of the Scripture Matters Podcast in the hospital going through some very difficult circumstances.
00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:16.879
Her name is Heather Hudson.
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:21.839
And Cliff and I, right now, want to wish her a very happy birthday.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:30.079
And listen, we are so glad to hear that you got to come home from the hospital just in time for your birthday.
00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:32.080
We sure do, Jonathan.
00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:42.960
And folks, whether you're watching today's finale on YouTube or Facebook or even listening through Buzz Sprout or another podcast platform, please know this.
00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:45.600
We really do appreciate you.
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:52.879
And if you have found us for the first time today, we're so very glad this is where you're going to join us.
00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:53.600
That's right.
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:58.879
And we also want to take an opportunity to hear today to thank our studio director, Billy Sanford.
00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:03.840
You can't see him or hear him, but hey, I promise you, you would know if he wasn't there.
00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:10.000
There's work behind these conversations that doesn't happen in front of the camera or on a microphone.
00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:15.840
But we're so grateful this season for the work that he's done to make these episodes possible.
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:23.600
And folks, even after season two has come to an end, please keep those questions and comments coming in to us.
00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:23.840
Yeah.
00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:29.039
The contact information is on your screen, especially with today's subject.
00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:35.519
You know, there may be something you have wondered about for years, but have never had an opportunity to discuss.
00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:50.799
Now, brother, last week in our episode entitled Hope Matters, we talked about trusting God's promises even when life cannot be put back together just the way it was.
00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:58.000
Today, however, we turn toward what those promises hold before us.
00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.120
And that reaches people differently, Jonathan.
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.200
You know, somebody listening, they're missing someone.
00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.759
Somebody is worn down by pain.
00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:08.080
Yeah.
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:13.759
You know, somebody else may simply be realizing how quickly the years are passing by.
00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:16.159
Yeah, and that's kind of the reason why you and I agreed.
00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.240
We didn't want to just rush through today's finale.
00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:35.360
We're talking about a future that Christians build their very lives around, something we sing about, we pray about, and lean on, even in those moments where we're standing beside a grave.
00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:41.840
But Jonathan, something being deeply comforting does not automatically make it true.
00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:43.919
That's exactly right, brother.
00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:51.440
You know, we need to let God's word guide this conversation, especially when our feelings about it are so strong.
00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:52.480
Yeah, we do.
00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:54.240
And we want the tenderness.
00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.519
I mean, you and I agree.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.759
We want the tenderness, but brother, we want the truth underneath it.
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:07.360
Not a heaven that we've assembled from all of our favorite memories or things that we've always heard.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:13.519
But today, we want to understand exactly what God has truly promised.
00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:19.440
And that is why this finale needs to bring the whole journey together.
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:27.519
We've spent 12 conversations, Jonathan, talking about belonging to Christ in the lives we were actually living.
00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:37.039
Yeah, people who have been trying to forgive, trying to keep a promise, praying when nothing seems to be changing.
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:43.840
Heaven cannot just be this beautiful subject we turn to after all of that.
00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:51.679
Uh no, it needs to reach the person who's wondering where their life spent trusting him is really leading anywhere.
00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:52.240
Yeah.
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:57.279
So let us begin then today with what Jesus promises.
00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:12.720
Um, he promises his people something very special, not just where he's taking us, but why being with him matters to everything that we've been talking about this season.
00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:22.399
Jonathan, in John 14, Jesus does not promise his disciples that following him will make their circumstances easier.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.879
No, he promises them something far more personal.
00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:28.320
That's right, Cliff.
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:39.279
In verse 3, Jesus says, I will come again and take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:41.440
You think about that, brother.
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.759
The promise isn't simply I'll get you to a better place.
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.159
No, it's I will take you to myself.
00:12:50.559 --> 00:13:01.200
And though disciples were troubled about his leaving, the comfort was not a list of things they could enjoy without him, it was being with him.
00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:06.639
That makes heaven personal before we ever begin describing what it looks like.
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:14.000
Then listen to what Jesus prays in John chapter 17 and verse 24.
00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:25.120
He says this, Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am.
00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:36.639
Now, we talk about wanting to see Jesus, but he actually expresses his desire to have his people with him.
00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:44.240
You know, Jonathan, earlier in that prayer, he includes those who will believe through the apostle's message.
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:44.720
Yeah.
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:49.759
This is not a welcome that belongs only to the men who heard him that evening.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:58.799
No, this reaches somebody out there today who has spent years feeling like Jesus barely tolerates them.
00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:06.799
Um, you've turned to him, but you really keep wondering in your heart whether he, Jesus, really wants you.
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:09.679
Listen again to his prayer.
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:25.360
He talked about forgiveness this season because people carry real guilt, but forgiveness is not God saying, I'll stop holding it against you, but you keep your distance.
00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:30.159
You know, reconciliation it means a relationship matters.
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:34.559
And heaven brings that relationship into focus.
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:41.200
We aren't trying to earn a place where Christ will just finally begin to love us.
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:47.759
No, we're longing to be with a savior who I promise you today already does love you.
00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:52.480
Which makes me think about the person who listened to prayer matters.
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:56.799
They may still be praying about the very same thing.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.360
Yes, sir.
00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.879
Their circumstances may not look any different.
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:08.240
Yeah, we began that episode, if you recall, with the silence after amen.
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:13.600
Someone listening knows that silence far too well, I think.
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:14.000
Yes.
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:21.759
They've prayed through tears, they've gotten up and faced another day without the answer that they so desired.
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:29.279
And we should not tell them heaven means receiving an explanation for every one of those days, either.
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:34.639
You know, God has not promised us a private accounting of everything he was doing.
00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:40.720
But you think about Revelation 22, 4, it does promise us this.
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:45.360
It says, they will see his face.
00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:57.200
The person who has spent a lifetime praying without seeing him has something extraordinary to look forward to.
00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:01.759
And that carries our providence conversation even further.
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:07.360
You know, we said not seeing God at work did not mean he was absent.
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:07.759
No.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:13.039
Now we're talking about the promised future of life with him.
00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:17.279
Yeah, he isn't beginning to care for us then.
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:19.440
He cares now.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.399
But think about that promise, brother.
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:28.080
The one I've trusted without seeing, I will see.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.320
And that helps explain why heaven matters.
00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:41.279
Even when life here is going well, we do not have to wait until we are miserable to want to be with someone we love.
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.039
That takes me straight back to my mother.
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.200
We talked about her episodes ago.
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.240
Jonathan, we get to go to worship this morning.
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:54.960
And as a teenager, I heard that and I had to get out of bed.
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.080
But you hear the privilege now, Jonathan.
00:16:58.240 --> 00:16:58.879
Yeah.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:08.720
That was part of worship conversation, remembering who we are coming before instead of merely getting through another obligation.
00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:13.759
And her words even press on me uh again here.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:23.839
Am I learning to love being with God, or do I mainly want to give me everything else that I'm looking for?
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.400
You know, that's a searching question, Jonathan.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:26.880
Yeah.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:32.400
We can describe heaven almost entirely in terms of what will please us.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:39.519
The beautiful surroundings, the comfort, the things we will never have to endure again.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.559
Almost, Cliff, like we're choosing a place where we want to retire one day.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.960
Perfect surroundings, uh, none of the problems.
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:58.400
But Jesus hasn't just offered us better surroundings, he's offered us eternal life with himself.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:00.960
Yeah, and this is important, Jonathan.
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:06.480
We do not need to shame someone whose first thought is relief from pain.
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:09.759
No, you know, Revelation 21 promises that relief.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:10.640
Yes, sir.
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.920
Someone who hurts every day has a good reason to long for it.
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:17.519
Yeah, of course they do.
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:28.319
But just before that promise, verse three says, Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:36.240
He gives us more than just the removal of suffering, he gives us life with him.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.960
Then the gifts and the giver are not competing.
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:41.839
No, sir.
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:47.920
We can long for what he promises while learning to treasure the one making that promise.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:54.960
And I think, brother, that's where season two has all along truly been taking us.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:19:10.559
Prayer isn't merely getting an answer, worship isn't getting our preferences satisfied, and heaven isn't getting everything we want while God becomes just this afterthought.
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:14.720
No, you we've been talking about a relationship with him all along.
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.519
Yeah.
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:21.680
The way we pray, worship, forgive, and keep following Christ.
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.960
Jonathan, that grows out of that relationship.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.400
Yeah, folks, please hear what I'm about to share with you.
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:38.559
Heaven matters because the Lord we're learning to love here is the very one we're going to be with for an eternity.
00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:45.359
The relationship at the heart of season number two has a future.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:50.319
But the people making that journey, Jonathan, they still suffer.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:50.960
Yes, sir.
00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:55.440
I mean, remember that husband whose supper kept getting cold?
00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.519
He still needs strength.
00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:57.839
Yeah.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:03.839
That family that was rebuilding after the storm, Jonathan, they still face all those losses.
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:05.759
But here's what they need, brother.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:11.519
They need more than just an invitation to imagine something beautiful.
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:21.759
They need to know what God has promised about the suffering that makes this journey from time to time so difficult.
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:29.200
Jonathan, he has promised his people more than the strength to keep surviving it.
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:40.319
You know, Revelation chapter 21 and verse 4 says, He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more.
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:47.119
God is not simply promising that we will get better at coping with loss.
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:57.839
Then that husband who prayed, but I'm tired, isn't being promised an eternity of running on empty.
00:20:58.160 --> 00:21:10.240
We talked about helping that man get through another difficult day, but another difficult day isn't all that that man has to look forward to.
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.359
Here we're grateful for relief.
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.319
We have a treatment that may help.
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.720
If someone recovers, we get more time with them together.
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:28.400
But even then, we know another illness or another loss could come at any time.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.279
More time is not the same as death losing its power.
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:40.480
Brother, that's why heaven matters to someone who is just flat worn out.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:48.240
God isn't promising to stretch the hardest parts of life across endless years.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:54.160
No, our future with him is more than just surviving forever.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.680
But somebody listening may think I just need help getting through tonight.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.599
You know, heaven must never become our excuse to overlook them, Jonathan.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.599
No, and so let's help them today, brother.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:17.359
I don't want to hand somebody a promise about tomorrow because I don't want to be inconvenienced today.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:21.519
And the family and our hope matters.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:26.400
Whenever we did the opening, brings another side of this into view.
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.119
You know, they survived that storm.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:35.279
They could start rebuilding, but rebuilding could not make that storm never happened in the first place.
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.480
Nor, as we said last week, can everything simply just be rebuilt.
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:47.279
Somebody listening, if if we're being honest here, has lost far more than just a house.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:47.759
Yeah.
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:53.920
They don't need us to promise that life will eventually look exactly like it did before.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:00.160
They may not even want everything back, they just want one person back.
00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:04.480
And no amount of rebuilding can ever do that.
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:10.079
And that's where the resurrection, I mean, it becomes deeply personal.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:23.759
First Corinthians chapter 15 and verse 42 says this what is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:34.319
See, Paul isn't just offering us a better way to remember people, he's talking, folks, about the dead being raised.
00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:43.279
A photograph can remind you of a smile, but that photograph cannot smile back at you.
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.480
You know, we treasure those pictures because we treasure that person.
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:55.200
Remembering them and being with them, Jonathan, that is not the same thing.
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:05.359
And being raised isn't simply getting, say, another stretch of years before everything starts just breaking down again.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:14.240
Paula's promise is so much bigger than us returning to the same vulnerability.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:21.119
That's why later in the chapter he says, death is swallowed up in victory.
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:21.440
Yeah.
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:28.240
You know, Jonathan, it's not postponed until the next illness, it's actually defeated through Jesus Christ.
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:33.759
And brother, that takes hope matters somewhere we needed to go.
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:39.359
We said our hope, remember this, had an empty tomb behind it.
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:46.240
Well, now we're talking about what Christ's victory means for the very people who belong to him.
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.880
It also means I do not have to pretend that death is harmless.
00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:54.079
You know, Jonathan, even Paul called it an enemy.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:54.720
Yeah.
00:24:54.960 --> 00:25:02.079
The hope is not that we learn to like what death does, it's that Christ defeats it.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:03.680
Yeah, I'm grateful for that.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:12.400
And I know you are as well, because sometimes Christians feel that, you know, they need to apologize for missing somebody.
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:20.000
Loving the Lord doesn't mean an empty chair at your table just stops hurting.
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:24.880
And Paul does not dismiss that longing in 1 Thessalonians 4.
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:31.200
You know, he talks about believers who have died and those still living when Jesus returns.
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.200
His comfort includes their being brought together.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:41.279
Yeah, in verse 7, he he verse 17, he says, together with them, right?
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:47.200
And then he says, We will always be with the Lord.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:57.279
Brother, being with Jesus doesn't mean being alone, separated from everybody else who belongs to him.
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.720
The promises about those in Christ.
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:13.359
Yeah, we cannot guarantee a reunion simply because we miss somebody, but Jonathan, we should not make the comfort Paul gives grieving Christians really smaller than it is.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:17.599
No, and we don't have to supply every detail for it to matter.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:24.720
No, someone may want to know what the first conversation in eternity is going to sound like.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:26.720
I don't know.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.720
I can't tell you an answer to that.
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:38.720
But Paul gives us more than just a bunch of wishful thinking, nor does reunion push Jesus into the background.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:44.079
No, folks, we're not saying thank you, Jesus, for getting us here.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:47.759
Now we're going to go and enjoy the people we really wanted to see.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:54.000
No, he, Jesus, is the very reason that we can look forward to being together at all.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:27:01.039
The savior we long to see is the one who makes our hope possible.
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:05.680
And that helps me think about the episode of Peace Matters.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:06.079
Yeah.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:11.440
You know, we talked about finding peace while circumstances were still difficult.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:16.640
We were not saying those difficulties would be our condition forever.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:22.799
No, here, peace can steady us while something really hurts.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:28.160
But the future that God promises, it goes further than that.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:28.960
Yeah.
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:36.160
Um, mourning and pain won't keep returning to interrupt life with Jesus.
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:37.119
Just won't.
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:44.960
That is what makes his promise so much more good folks than just a temporary reprieve.
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:52.960
You know, although someone may hear us and think, Well, I love my life and I'm not ready to leave my family.
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:59.599
Folks, longing for heaven should not make gratitude for today feel wrong.
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:02.480
No, I mean, think about it this way: I love Jennifer.
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.880
I love being with Jennifer and being alongside my children.
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.960
Brother, I'm thankful for the time that we have here on this earth.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:18.640
I don't have to resent those gifts to long for the eternal future that God has promised me.
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:31.039
Then heaven is not only meaningful after we have lost everything we love, it matters while we are loving people too, because we know how precious being together is.
00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:31.759
Amen.
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:41.920
And I don't want the people who have walked through this season uh together with us to hear only, hey, you keep on enduring.
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.319
No.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:50.640
No, we've been talking about following a savior who promises uh far more than just endless endurance.
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:54.799
You know, which brings us back to what they are doing today.
00:28:55.039 --> 00:29:02.480
They're keeping a marriage promise, they're working towards reconciliation, they're serving somebody who needs them.
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:07.119
Those choices happen in the middle of all of this uncertainty.
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:08.079
Yeah, it does.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:15.759
And brother, we've asked people to take those choices seriously all season long here in season two.
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:30.960
If Christ's victory truly means that death doesn't get to have the last word, what does that mean for the love, forgiveness, and service that we're giving right now?
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:37.279
Well, Jonathan, it means that love and forgiveness and service are not wasted.
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.960
That is where Paul takes the resurrection discussion.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.319
Look at 1 Corinthians chapter 15 and verse 58.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:51.599
It urges believers to keep serving, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:56.799
Heaven gives us a reason to take this life seriously.
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:58.559
I'll be honest with you, brother.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:02.799
That's what brings this whole season together for me.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:16.000
We haven't asked people out there to forgive, serve, or keep their promise, knowing those things could always produce this easy life.
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:24.720
A life offered to Christ truly matters beyond the results that we can measure today.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:30.160
But Paul places the victory with Jesus before he talks about our work.
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:36.880
We're not completing enough religious assignments to buy our way home.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.000
We serve because Christ has given us something worth living for.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:52.400
Brother, somebody listening may have quietly wondered have I wasted my life trying to do what is right?
00:30:53.519 --> 00:31:02.720
They've given years to people, made sacrifice, watched over uh as other people got ahead.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:09.759
That person again needs to hear us say more than just, hey, keep busy.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.039
Yeah, Jonathan.
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:13.920
They need to know that not seeing every result.
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.359
It does not make their service meaningless.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:17.839
No.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.319
Paul does not promise they'll get to watch everything turn out well.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.640
He tells them their work in the Lord is not in vain.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:30.799
And that changes what I call success.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:48.079
A person may never have much money or recognition, yet, people around them that they have loved, taught, encouraged, and helped to keep trusting Christ.
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:54.160
And Jonathan, that was a meaningful life before anybody spoke about it at a funeral.
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:54.640
Right.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:00.480
We should not wait until someone is gone to recognize the worth of what they're doing.
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:09.839
And nor should I let somebody else's definition of success make me ashamed of following Jesus.
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:22.000
The opportunity I refused because, well, it required me to be dishonest wasn't necessarily the opportunity that I should regret losing.
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.960
But we feel the cost now.
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:25.519
Yeah.
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.319
That is what makes this difficult, Jonathan.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:32.640
The advantage I could gain is right in front of me.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:37.920
The future God promises is not something I can put in my hand.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.759
Then heaven matters at the moment of decision.
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:54.240
It's like this: Do I believe the Lord's promise enough to let his truth outweigh any advantage I could have today?
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:55.119
Yes.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:00.400
That's more personal than just us sitting around discussing some golden streaks.
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:03.920
And it reaches into how we treat people too.
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:08.799
You know, we have talked about forgiveness, we've talked about unity this season.
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:14.799
Those conversations get tested when somebody gives us a fresh reason to be angry.
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:15.440
Yeah.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:25.440
It's possible to imagine a wonderful reunion with God's people someday while deciding, well, you know what?
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.920
One of God's people here doesn't really deserve a kind word from me.
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:37.200
And telling yourself you will be different in heaven, uh, it does not excuse refusing Christ now.
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:37.680
No.
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.200
Uh Jonathan, look at Ephesians chapter 4 and verse 32.
00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:47.119
It connects forgiving one another with how God has forgiven us in Christ.
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:53.440
Brother, I I'm not arriving because I never needed mercy myself.
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:54.319
Amen.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:59.279
Neither is the Christian, I'm struggling to forgive.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:08.800
Remembering that doesn't make their wrong harmless, but it challenges what I'm going to try to do with the hurt that I feel.
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:14.559
Yeah, it it does not require pretending that trust was never damaged either.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:15.119
No.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:23.119
We can deal honestly with wrongdoing without deciding our bitterness deserves a permanent place in our hearts.
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:29.199
And that's where heaven reaches back into season number two.
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:36.559
Forgiveness and unity weren't just ways to make our churches more pleasant.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:44.880
We're learning to love people who belong to the very same Savior that we do.
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:51.760
And we should not make church a place where exhausted people have to pretend.
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:52.559
Amen.
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:56.239
We've talked about belonging to Christ together.
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.840
That means helping each other keep walking with him.
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:02.320
Which, you know, let's be honest about it.
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:06.800
It may cost me an afternoon that I wanted to have to myself.
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:20.639
I can't keep praising someone else's faithfulness while treating my own convenience as something nobody out there ought to ever disturb.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:28.000
And Jonathan, I also think about how much time we spend protecting things that cannot last.
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:28.800
Boy, yeah.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:37.760
We know they are temporary, but sometimes we give them more attention than the people who are right beside us.
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.199
Yeah, you think about this uh for a lot of us out there today.
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:51.119
We work so hard to leave our children something valuable and still neglect them to help them know Christ.
00:35:52.559 --> 00:36:00.400
Preparing them for a future means so much more than just preparing them financially.
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:03.840
Now, there's nothing wrong with providing for them.
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:05.440
No, let's get that right.
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:10.960
But the people we love need a whole lot more from us than things.
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:11.679
Yeah.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:18.000
What they see us treasure, Jonathan, it really tells them what we believe matters.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.239
So let's get this right here.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:26.079
Heaven isn't permission to withdraw from this life.
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:43.360
It gives me a reason to be more present to today, to love Jennifer, to love my children, to teach them and care about the people that God has placed within my reach.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:52.159
Jonathan, remembering back when we began this season with freedom, yeah, we were talking about life belonging to Christ.
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:52.880
Yeah.
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:57.760
Now, heaven is not a different story tacked on to the end of that.
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.760
No, it is a future of that life with Him.
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:15.280
And I thought about it, and that's why I'd hate for us to finish these 13 conversations having just enjoyed the subjects, but left our choices untouched.
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:23.760
These promises, folks, are far too important to remain something that we just talk about.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:29.599
But that's not another burden to pile onto a person who is dead tired.
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:39.360
It's encouraging that the life they are offering to Christ has meaning, yes, even when they are struggling to even see it.
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:44.400
Then, Cliff, heaven matters long before we ever get there.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:45.519
That's true.
00:37:45.840 --> 00:38:01.440
It helps me to decide what is worth giving my life to now because the Lord I'm trusting uh with eternity is the Lord that I need to and want to honor today.
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.519
You know, that brings me back to the man in our opening, Jonathan.
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:16.480
The miles were real, the years away, they were real, but he was traveling towards a welcome.
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.400
And brother, that's where I want us to finish this season.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:31.760
Not just talking about how long the road has been, but remembering who we're longing to be with.
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:38.639
And Jonathan, let's let that man step through that doorway.
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:39.440
All right.
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.679
He spent years saying he wants to go home.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:48.559
Now the person he missed is right in front of him.
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:54.239
Yeah, I just picture in my mind him stepping into those arms.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:05.280
You know, for a moment, he doesn't explain the journey or or talk about everything that happened uh all those years he was away.
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:07.440
He just holds on.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:15.679
Later they will talk, but right now he does not need another description of home.
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:22.320
No, he's not even imagining the welcome anymore, he's receiving it.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:32.239
And what Jesus gives us is so much more than a story that moves us emotionally.
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:42.480
In John chapter 14 and verse 3, he says, I will come again and take you to myself.
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:46.800
Brother, to everybody out there, you need to know that's a promise.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:48.000
Yes, it is.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:51.679
That's what holds this whole season together, Jonathan.
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:52.000
Yep.
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:57.519
You know, we have been talking about belonging to Christ and the future he promises his people.
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:08.639
Yeah, somebody out there has recognized their own weariness in that talk that we had about the husband's cold dinner.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:15.360
Somebody else out there recognized that silence after the amen.
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:21.440
Brother, we haven't been asking them all season to keep walking toward nothing.
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:27.440
The Savior who offers forgiveness, Jonathan, is the one we long to see.
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:28.320
Absolutely.
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:36.000
Our faithfulness has not been a way to earn his love, it is our response to it.
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:36.880
Amen.
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:41.039
And the life offered to him, it isn't wasted.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:47.760
That's what I want, really and truly, for someone to carry away from season number two.
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:56.880
Your labor in the Lord matters, even when you just cannot seem to measure its results.
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:03.760
Heaven also means the suffering we have talked about, it's not gonna be our forever.
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:04.719
No, sir.
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:13.440
We're looking forward towards life with God, not simply more strength to survive another loss.
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:27.280
So, yes, we can love the people who are beside us, help each other, keep walking along the way, and trust Christ with where he is taking us right now.
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:32.719
We don't have to know every detail of every mile that is ahead.
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:40.079
And Jonathan, unlike the homecoming we know here, life with him will never be interrupted by death.
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:40.960
No, sir.
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:45.599
We will not be together only until the very next goodbye.
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:54.719
Yeah, one day for those of us who belong to Jesus Christ, I can't wait to get home.
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:58.239
Will no longer be something that we have to say.
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:04.800
We will be with the Lord, and good folks, we will never have to leave.
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:11.199
Well, Jonathan, my friend, it has been a privilege to share this season with you.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:11.920
Yes, sir.
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:18.960
As well as with everyone else who is listening, watched, or spent time opening their Bible alongside of us.
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:29.840
Yeah, brother, let me stop for just a moment and thank you for the study you've put into this season, your heart that you've brought to each and every one of these conversations.
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:34.639
And again, thank you to Billy for his hard work behind the scenes.
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:43.199
Uh, it's just been an absolute privilege to work with you, Cliff and Billy, on this second season of the Scripture Matters podcast.
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:51.360
Yes, and to everyone who shared an episode, who has sent a question or encouraged us, folks.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.119
Again, thank you.
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.880
You have helped these conversations reach people we could not reach on our own.
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:04.480
And before we say those words that are hard to say, goodbye, folks.
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:08.480
Uh, there's something else that we want you to watch for.
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:21.760
And it's this a very special announcement connected with season two that we're just completing here today about something connected to season two that is coming in the very near future.
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:23.599
Oh, that's right, Jonathan.
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:26.800
And we're keeping the details to ourselves for now, folks.
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:27.760
Spoilers.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:28.239
Uh-huh.
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:35.519
But we think those of you who have enjoyed this season, oh, you will truly appreciate what's coming.
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.320
And we've also heard your questions.
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:40.320
Is there gonna be a season three?
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:41.360
What's it gonna be?
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:49.599
We've heard your questions, and Lord willing, there's more ahead, and we've been praying very carefully about what comes next.
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:53.199
So please watch for announcements in the coming week.
00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:55.360
You do not want to miss them.
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:59.199
Follow or subscribe so that you do not miss them.
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:00.000
That's right.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:10.639
In the meantime, listen, folks, these conversations are gonna still be here for you to revisit and continue to share with others.
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.639
And here's the thing: think about it.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:23.679
Somebody you know, there may come a time when they need the encouragement of an episode that you heard four or five weeks ago here in season two.
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:31.679
And remember, folks, you can very easily find the archives of both season one as well as season two on YouTube.
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:33.760
So please keep that in mind.
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:34.400
Yes, sir.
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:39.840
You know, finishing this season today does not mean we're finished learning from it either.
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:48.960
No, sir, and whatever good comes out of this season from all the work that you and I have put together through this, yes, sir.
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:50.079
To God be the glory.
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:50.480
Amen.
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:51.039
Amen.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:51.599
Amen.
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:52.559
Good folks.
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:59.840
Again, we just want to thank you for walking with us through this entire journey that is season two.
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:02.880
And above all, heaven matters.
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.199
Keep walking with Christ.
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:06.960
Cliff, you tell him why.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:08.239
Amen, brother.
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:12.880
Because, as you just said, Jonathan, heaven matters.
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:18.639
Well, until next time, I'm Jonathan Sanford.
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.199
And folks, I'm Cliff Thompson.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:26.079
Stay grounded, stay focused.
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:32.400
And remember, as always, good folks, Scripture Matters.
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:34.079
Goodbye, everybody.
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.800
Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Scripture Matters Podcast.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:43.039
We'll be back with a new conversation every Friday at 3 30 p.m.
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.280
on YouTube, Facebook, and all major podcast platforms.
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:52.559
Until then, may the word guide you and your week and is all of it.
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:54.960
Remember Scripture Matter.