Bill Ruh (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome to the Scrappiest Startups Podcast. I'm Bill Ruh and I'm coming to you from Bozeman, Montana. And this is one of those Scrappy Startup towns we're going to talk about on this podcast.
I was inspired to do this podcast by the amazing people that I have met here in Bozeman who are creating scrappy startups. They all believe that they can change the world as much as any startup in Silicon Valley, Seattle, or pick any other tech-centered city in the world.
What really struck me in these discussions was that technology is at a tipping point where the need to be near capital or talent isn't a barrier that it once was. What makes them scrappy is a few things. They really are in garages doing this work. They're working in amazing small teams. self-funded or maybe friends and family for longer periods of time.
And the people are really cool. So this podcast is for people who have scrappy startups, to learn from others how to create a scrappy startup and early stage or angel investors who want to hear about cool ideas cool people. But it will not only be about the startups themselves. It's also going to be about the towns they're in. At each town I visit, I often find there's a whole different startup culture surrounding the particular town.
Lastly, we're going to meet the people who are running startups. And we're going to hear their personal stories. You know, I found their stories endearing and inspiring. And I also find them to be a little quirky, but I happen to love quirky. So lets jump into the first episode.
But before we jump into this interview, a few things. If you find it interesting, please subscribe or recommend this to others. Second, I want to thank our sponsors who made this possible.
Now our first sponsor is Joogi, J-O-O-G-I. Now you can download their app from Apple or Google app stores. What I love about this is the founders describe it as a digital version of Chuck E. Cheese Arcade. Its a place to go to play games, collect points or tickets, then get exciting products with them. And in this case, they really have awesome, authentic products and services.
Now our second sponsor is Last Best Place Brewing here in Bozeman, Montana. If you're in town, stop by for a beer. If you're in Montana anywhere, ask for them at a restaurant or bar or even pick up a six pack at the grocery. Otherwise, I'd like you to follow them on Instagram or Facebook.
And with that lets turn to our first guest.
Bill Ruh (02:53)
Hi everyone. For our first podcast i've got with me Alicia Lycan. I met Alicia at the Montana Summit, which is a fabulous conference where startups and investors meet and learn what it takes to succeed. I got a chance sit down with her. It was a great conversation. So I'm hopeful we
can capture the magic out of that conversation and do a little bit of that here. Welcome Alicia.
Alicia Lycan (03:18)
Thank you.
Bill Ruh (03:19)
I thought we'd discuss in three sections. First section, we'll talk about you as an entrepreneur and your journey to get here. Second section we'll talk about your company. Third section, we'll talk about how you got to Bozeman and things like that. So let's jump into the entrepreneurship section. When and why did you decide you wanted to found a company?
Alicia Lycan (03:41)
I've always been in love with creating something, having a vision and executing on it. After a couple years working for other folks, while that was time well spent, I decided to go on my own. I learned a lot in the corporate world. I worked for digital marketing. I worked as a software engineer at Nike, learned a lot about developing software that was instrumental in spring boarding me into the startup world. But I found there was always a glass ceiling on innovation.
Also, I just really enjoy working things out, problem solving, not being put in a box, and really being able to run with things. I also like working with agile teams where everyone is really great at their craft and can execute well and we can really bring something to life. When you're working in the corporate world, nothing happens very quickly so its hard to make an impact. Doing something in a way that often hasn't been done before is really rewarding.
Bill Ruh (04:41)
Well, you're a hardcore developer and I thought that was quite fascinating your background. What do you think in your background really prepared you to do this? Why not go work for somebody else's startup doing it on your own and taking out all the stress and everything that comes along with it.
Alicia Lycan (04:57)
I've always had a bit of an adventurous spirit. I have been into sports throughout my entire life and being able to develop a spirit for adventure and going into the unknown. Being uncomfortable is something I'm very attracted to. It's been where the most growth happens and where I've made the most incredible memories, relationships, and that's really, just catapulted me into that entrepreneurial mindset.
It rewards the ultra marathon runner over a sprint athlete. And I love putting in hard work and seeing that payoff and being able to really get to the other side. So I think that's what attracted me to the world of business.
There's not really like a direct path. You really have to figure it out and it demands the best of you. It's very character developing and very rewarding. I would say that is what's really kept me going.
I have this goal of building something, being a leader, someone that others look up to and want to follow. Let them see their vision within my vision. It's just being able to work on teams like that and get a taste of that really pushed me into into more of a leadership position.
And I would say, engineering. I love building proof of concepts and flushing out ideas. I don't really enjoy fixing bugs and building features. I like more of the let's figure out how this system's going to work and drive it. And I've found a sweet spot with working with teams where they're able to come step in and don't necessarily want to be driving the vision. And so I just naturally found my spot there.
Bill Ruh (06:49)
I know you are an adrenaline junkie. I see this around Bozeman where a lot of the founders really outdoorsy, but not just outdoorsy. They have that adrenaline junkie kind of thing. The lack of fear or maybe the ability to conquer your fear. I suspect everybody has fear when they do it but can get into it.
When you're doing a startup, it's much the same thing. What I'm seeing in Bozeman specifically, or in Montana startups, that there's that common thread around things. And I think you brought that out. We're going to come back to the adrenaline junkie piece later on.
You have one of the scrappiest startup I've seen in town. So how many people, in the company?
Alicia Lycan (07:36)
I say we but it's me, myself, and I depending on who I'm talking to.
Bill Ruh (07:41)
I had acquaintance tell me that he thought that it won't be long before there's a billion dollar unicorn startup of only ten people.
I dont think every startup needs huge teams of people anymore because the technology is allowing us to do it in new ways. I found it quite endearing when you said it was you, but then we got talking and it's really not just you because you've tapped into your network in a way that helps a lot. How important is your network in what you're doing? And in Bozeman, how did you tap into that?
Alicia Lycan (08:15)
Yeah, your network is your net worth. And the thing is, when you're a self-funded bootstrap startup, solo, you really need to leverage everything you can within your control and get in that mindset of playing bigger rather than smaller because you need to decrease the time horizon from where you currently are to where you desire to be, which is revenue, which is oxygen for your business. So I kind of work my way back from that and I break that down
Alicia Lycan (08:45)
I have a proof of concept. It is not scalable, but it works and it brings value and market fit. Now I need to get users and then you continue as you talk to your users, you continue to get feedback that adds value to the product. I think the hardest thing for me to learn is I am an operator and an engineer. So I want to make sure my product is something I'm really proud of. But the more time I spend on that being solo, the less is being spent on other things like sales. So you need to get really clear in your priorities and be able to drive those hard every single day and lean into the things that you're not necessarily as skilled at like high ticket sales and that's where other people come in. It's not that you're not good at it. It's a skill you haven't developed yet. So it'd be unreasonable if you didnt work at that just like anything I've worked at in sports.
Alicia Lycan (09:44)
Use your network to get better, especially if they're founders. If they've been in leadership roles in companies and they want to help you succeed then tap into that.
How you show up, how you choose to take a chance with them, be a little vulnerable, put yourself out there, ask questions, make sure that time's valuable and well spent. People will meet you where you're at and want to help you, especially out here in Bozeman. It's less cutthroat than some other environments I've been in, say in other markets.
I'm from Washington, Seattle operates a little differently. It's also quite a lot bigger. But yeah, I feel like I really tapped into something special here and there's been some incredible talent. Some of the most very successful founders are here doing amazing things. Being able to build those relationships over time. They're gonna see you continue to succeed. You never know what that could turn into. So just plant seeds and nurture that and stay focused.
Bill Ruh (10:44)
There are two things you said that just resonated so much with me. I love that comment, your network is your net worth. It is so true. I think that's what I mean about the future is that if you've got a better network, you can do it small and scrappy. You don't have to do it with large teams.
I was talking to another friend.who is a founder of a company and he was talking to a well-known venture capitalist. That venture capitalist said something quite interesting to him. He said the venture capitalists who are operators are the ones who are being much more successful today. I think being an operator and having that experience is helpful both to the founding of a company, but also in investment world.
Alicia Lycan (11:31)
It's interesting. I didn't start in engineering and I sometimes think there's a lot of value in not staying in one vertical in your career, I'm just naturally a curious person. And like you said, when you're building a business, you have to put on a lot of hats. And so I'm just so grateful that I've been able to understand not only how to build technical products, but how to communicate that value to the users and vice versa.
Alicia Lycan (11:59)
About two years ago, I had the opportunity to work with Solana and we launched a phone, Saga, maybe you've heard of it. It was amazing. I found myself just filling in gaps to bring value to the company and all of a sudden I was leading operations. I found that everything that I had learned had built up to that point really enabled me to execute well in that role.
I've been able to do that for others. We've been able to build teams, work, like you said, on a very skeleton team and launch products. Now it's just you in the driver's seat. But it's not really like you've never done it before. It's, okay, you've been able to learn from these different experiences and that's enabled you to give you the confidence and conviction to be able to execute on your own. I'm able to pull folks that I've worked with before in. It's neat knowing I have the chess pieces ready. Like you said, building those relationships and keeping those warm are important.
I'm excited to be able to jump into that next stage of the business.
Bill Ruh (13:10)
That's great. IThis idea of a network is so important. Before we talk about your company, why don't you tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bozeman? What is the hardest thing about being a startup in Bozeman? You mentioned some great things. What do you like about being in Bozeman?
Alicia Lycan (13:27)
It's a great question. Bozeman wasn't my first choice. It wasn't even on the map, to be honest. But end of last summer, I was building this business in my hometown of Bellingham, Washington. And I just found that I didn't have a lot of, there wasn't a lot of ideation or creativeness because I didn't have peers that were also building businesses. And I felt my momentum stall. And that's the worst thing for an entrepreneur. Because again, that time horizon is not forever. So I was like, I need to do something. And so I have a Sprinter van, van life, and I decided to hit the road and I had a little map and I was going to stop in Bozeman because I had a love for the area. I spent a little time here in the past and then I was going to head to Denver and Boulder, Colorado. And as you know, Boulders got a bit of reputation for startups. So that was my plan. I never made it though, because when I in Bozeman, I just met one person and then that leapfrogged into another person. The next thing I know I was at a tech happy hour and kind of this tech underground entrepreneurial world that is in Bozeman that I had no idea existed.
So I just got brought in to that and found friends very quickly and I was thriving. And I noticed a huge change from a few weeks before. And so I decided to give it a shot. And I find that when you have green lights like that you stay. So it was an easy choice. And that was my, the most important thing for me at the time was just giving this everything I have.
Then in addition to that, there's something special about this area. You have these big mountains surrounding you. It's very inspiring. I love to get outside and I find I do some of my best thinking and creative work out there. But being able to still have that ability to be around a phenomenal network and community and build the business.
Bill Ruh (15:29)
Well, welcome to Montana. I'm glad you found Bozeman to be such a great place. I think it's true. That's why I started this podcast. But I also think there's a lot of towns around the country like this that are becoming the new startup havens. So we are going to explore that a little more in the podcast, but let's come back to you. So tell me about your startup.
Alicia Lycan (15:51)
Yes, so I started a company it's called shaped by AI and we predominantly work in the real estate industry. We help agents and brokers to adopt AI for lead generation management systems to really save time, increase their revenue and cut down on costs. So we're able to nurture and convert leads, book appointments take that off their plate.
On average an agent spends quite a bit of time prospecting. So I found an opportunity there. I grew up in a real estate family as well. My dad was the number one agent in the country of Canada for multiple years. So some of that brushed off watching him go through these challenges as an agent.
It's just been a ton of fun. Bozeman's a booming market too. So I've been able to build the product alongside other top agents and really see it flourish.
This is our first product. It's called Luna. So it's that lead nurturing system. And then we're also able to integrate that into an agents existing system. So it's full service done for you. And yeah, it's been a lot of fun so far.
Bill Ruh (17:11)
Well, know, I think it's like the best startups I've ever seen. What I've found is people have some DNA in the vertical or the technology they're going for. You clearly had that. I actually didn't know that when we had talked in the past. So it's pretty cool that you had that DNA and then at the same time you got a passion around it.
One nice thing about Montana, you can pilot things here because you can find somebody to work with. Sometimes being in a bigger market is actually a little harder to go find someone who's willing to pilot something that's is risky.
So how have you found customers to pilot this? How do you find people to go, hey, Alicia, I like what you're doing. Let me take a risk on you.
Alicia Lycan (18:01)
It's been a lot of networking. I'm just so grateful that people resonate with what you're saying. I'm constantly trying to tweak the language a little bit because that's a big thing to messaging and making sure it resonates.
I've been able to make some strong connections. The only way I got these pilots off the ground was with my network. And they're phenomenal. I cannot wait to share with you all the results. The teams I'm working with are just people I really look up to as well. So that's always fun when you like the people that are testing your product out with.
That was my initial approach to get my product off the ground, get some social proof. But in the meantime, I've been able to make more connections here in Bozeman and I now have a land developer I'm working with and a few agents.
So it's been neat to see that network build.
I feel like I started with humble beginnings. So it's amazing because I know how much I care about the product and how much I stand behind it.
But you have to be able to communicate that value to your users, otherwise no one's gonna know about you or use it. I have really been leaning into that end of things. And yeah, it's really starting to build some momentum, so I'm excited about that.
Bill Ruh (19:35)
I'll follow up with you with a few additional contacts of people I think might be worthwhile to talk to. Tell me about investors. You and I had a really interesting conversation about investors. Why didn't you bring investors in to build a team up faster? And then when do you think you're ready? How do you make that decision that you're ready to bring in investors?
Alicia Lycan (19:42)
Yeah, so I mean, I want to increase my leverage as much as possible before I bring on an investor. I want to have as much negotiation power as possible. I'm going to be very picky about who invests. There's got to be multiple facets of value there. Someone with experience building a SaaS company who can also be an advisor would be important and who doesn't necessarily put a ton of pressure and you can work with.
VCs can be pretty cutthroat. So I'd actually like to be friends or acquaintances with my investors as well. But I think the most important thing to keep in mind is you have your runway. So getting realistic about what that's going to take, being able to position yourself as you build to be attractive to investors. That's something I've been working on and learning a lot about.
One aspect of that for folks who aren't familiar with this is increasing your annual reoccurring revenue and increasing your retention. So those are two metrics that I'm working really hard at plus that influences my pricing model.
The more leverage you have, the less of the company you're gonna have to give away. And just getting really clear on my plan too, because right now the way I was able to bootstrap and didn't need a lot of capital was using other services and resources out there.
Technically, while I own the the data, I don't fully have a tool yet of where I have developed all the IP as a company. And so that's something I want to get really clear on because as soon as I take on investment, I have to start raising for the next round and my time's gonna be taken up managing the team and not necessarily being able to do a ton of development. So there's, when you pull that trigger.
I see a lot of teams out there who are young and inexperienced. And granted, I wouldn't say that I'm super experienced at building startups either, but I try and ask as many questions as possible and just figure things out. If I can get the strategy and plan in place and then how can I increase my ability to be successful? Because the last thing I want to do is bring people on and put them in a questionable position because I run out of money and then the whole thing falls apart.
Bill Ruh (22:24)
Anything you wish someone had told you before you got started that you had to learn and then adjust to?
Alicia Lycan (22:31)
I wish I would have learned sales earlier because that would have cut down on some of the time I've spent learning how to do that. I see a lot of value in having a co-founder that can really bridge the gap on some of the things I'm not as strong at. I also do believe you go further as a team and I look forward to bringing on some strong individuals who can balance out my skill sets down the road. But that's a whole other discussion for another time on co-founding and bringing on investors.
Bill Ruh (23:05)
And one last question on this section then we'll move on. Regarding your mentors, you've been reaching out to people who are very well known in the industry and they're becoming your mentors. How did that come about? And how did you decide to do that? How did you make that happen? It's quite impressive. I'm not asking you who it is because I'm not sure that's appropriate, but I was blown away by just how impactful it was.
Alicia Lycan (23:40)
I've always known that I don't know everything and I look up to people who have more experience. Whether that's what they've done in building a company, what they've achieved, their ability to influence and speak from experience. I know that I can get to my goal faster the more I surround myself with people like that.For me the worst someone can say is no.
Alicia Lycan (24:10)
Here's a hot tip for the audience. I have 100 % success rate with sending video messages on social media. So you find their account and you send a video message. No one does it. If you have their phone number, that's even better. But I've gotten replies and responses from people that you would say "you got a hold of them?"
I was myself and I sent a thoughtful message. That is how I've made a lot of connections. Also, I'm really fortunate to have put myself in situations to be able to network. Recently I went to a real estate conference, the biggest one in the world in August.
I figured I needed to be around my target audience and I got a name tag. So I had my name on it and dressed nice, I had my business cards and I just started handing them to everybody. I ended up meeting some really influential folks that way as well. So again, just being able to figure out how you can add value, ask questions to these higher successful mentorship folks is important and learning to talk less and listen more. Then they'll tell you what you need to know. You just have to be willing to ask the right questions. And so yeah, I'm very grateful for those relationships.
There's so much to learn in business that if you need to surround yourself with mentors. Maybe their knowledge or experience doesn't carry over to every aspect of the business but take what you can from different people and build on top of that.
Bill Ruh (25:58)
That's great advice by about your startup and we are all rooting for you. Just a ew final questions. We talked about you being an adrenaline junkie. So what kind of sports and activities do you like to do?
Alicia Lycan (26:14)
My passion right now is whitewater kayaking. That's typically spring into the the summer and through the fall.
And then I love to ski. So I'm in a great place in Montana for skiing.
I got into whitewater in college. That had such a phenomenal influence on the trajectory of my life and who I am today and you don't realize that in the moment but perspective is powerful thing.
I think this goes for most sports, as young kids get into sports you develop this confidence and this ability to think in the moment and really orient yourself forward and not question yourself. And so I'm so thankful for that although I fall short sometimes in those ways. It's been such a predominant theme for me in my life. There's nothing like putting your skis on and standing at the top of a cliff in a big line and being like, have you got this? And you have to really dig inside of yourself and answer is today the right day for this? Are the conditions well? And like you mentioned earlier with fearlessness, it's not so much fearlessness, but it's just putting yourself in those situations enough times to trust yourself and your gut instincts and being able to make an informed decision and manage the risk?
I find that no one's life is on the line in business typically, so it just really puts that in perspective as well when I am in a conference room or a meeting or making decisions. I'm like, well, I've done this before, so it's unreasonable for me not to be able to figure this out.
Bill Ruh (27:57)
Well, that's great and you're right that there's a lot of learnings from sports on how you have to think in a startup. You have to think, whether you're white water kayaking or skiing double black diamond, about trying to maneuver through it all. It gets your mindset right.
Alicia Lycan (28:12)
Yeah, and it's amazing too. Like you said earlier about this startup community here, you you don't exactly just like fall into Bozeman. You have to go out of your way to find it. And I'm just amazed at the caliber, like you said, of hunters and athletes here who are also really driven in business. So it's been a fun way to get to know people. You can get to know them a lot better on the ski lift for a day than over coffee. So I think that's another really huge value add to this area.
Bill Ruh (28:47)
Well, a few final questions, quick ones. What's your favorite restaurant here in Bozeman?
Alicia Lycan (28:53)
Blackbird.
Bill Ruh (28:55)
It is great. Do you have a favorite podcast other than this one, of course?
Alicia Lycan (29:01)
You know, I would say I'm a big fan of Build by Leila Hormozi. I love that she's a strong, confident woman and just it's been really great to see her progression as a leader in entrepreneurship.
Bill Ruh (29:07)
That's awesome. And, you know, last, some of our listeners may not know it, but tomorrow is a very important day here in Bozeman. It's brawl of the wild. And for those who don't know, it's one of longest standing college football rivalries where the Montana State University Bobcats who are undefeated this season are going against the University of Montana Grizzlies.
Who are you picking for that?
Alicia Lycan (29:45)
Bobcats that's 100%.
Bill Ruh (29:46)
You got the answer to that right. Alicia, this has been fantastic and we're cheering you all the way. What you're doing is quite inspiring, quite endearing, you've got to love it. So I really want to thank you for spending the time here and we follow up and see what we can do to help you grow your business.
Alicia Lycan (30:04)
Thank you. Yeah, and for those of you who don't know, Bill is very humble, but he secretly had quite the career as well. So it's been really great getting to know you, Bill.
Bill Ruh (30:15)
Thank you, Alicia.
Bill Ruh (30:18)
I hope you enjoyed that interview with Alicia Lycan the founder of Shaped by AI. She embodies the essence of scrappy startups. Now a few key takeaways from our discussion. If you're considering founding a startup, know your time horizon, be realistic with how long you need to prove out the idea and establish a minimally viable product.
Establish a timeline for bringing in investment aligned to how much value you need to create and how much do you need the capital. Now once it's off and running, have a bias for action and establish clear priorities. You need to do what matters most and not what you find the most interesting. Sales is often overlooked or imagined to be done by others when founders must lead this in the beginning. You need to create minimally viable traction with your product.
Your network is your net worth was one of the most insightful comments. This is where you get the best advice, most help, sales leads and introductions. Where your network has gaps expand it by identifying people that might feel out of reach, but then be fearless in meeting those people. Alicia mentioned her hot tip for using video messages. I thought that was great advice.
Ensure you have a mindset to deal with risk. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Scrappy Startups. Please subscribe and recommend to your network. Also, check out our sponsors, Joogi on the Google and Apple App Stores, and Last Best Place Brewery here in Bozeman, Montana. This is Bill Ruh signing off till next time.
Hi everyone, welcome to the Scrappiest Startups Podcast. I'm Bill Ruh and I'm coming to you from Bozeman, Montana. And this is one of those Scrappy Startup towns we're going to talk about on this podcast.
I was inspired to do this podcast by the amazing people that I have met here in Bozeman who are creating scrappy startups. They all believe that they can change the world as much as any startup in Silicon Valley, Seattle, or pick any other tech-centered city in the world.
What really struck me in these discussions was that technology is at a tipping point where the need to be near capital or talent isn't a barrier that it once was. What makes them scrappy is a few things. They really are in garages doing this work. They're working in amazing small teams. self-funded or maybe friends and family for longer periods of time.
And the people are really cool. So this podcast is for people who have scrappy startups, to learn from others how to create a scrappy startup and early stage or angel investors who want to hear about cool ideas cool people. But it will not only be about the startups themselves. It's also going to be about the towns they're in. At each town I visit, I often find there's a whole different startup culture surrounding the particular town.
Lastly, we're going to meet the people who are running startups. And we're going to hear their personal stories. You know, I found their stories endearing and inspiring. And I also find them to be a little quirky, but I happen to love quirky. So lets jump into the first episode.
But before we jump into this interview, a few things. If you find it interesting, please subscribe or recommend this to others. Second, I want to thank our sponsors who made this possible.
Now our first sponsor is Joogi, J-O-O-G-I. Now you can download their app from Apple or Google app stores. What I love about this is the founders describe it as a digital version of Chuck E. Cheese Arcade. Its a place to go to play games, collect points or tickets, then get exciting products with them. And in this case, they really have awesome, authentic products and services.
Now our second sponsor is Last Best Place Brewing here in Bozeman, Montana. If you're in town, stop by for a beer. If you're in Montana anywhere, ask for them at a restaurant or bar or even pick up a six pack at the grocery. Otherwise, I'd like you to follow them on Instagram or Facebook.
And with that lets turn to our first guest.
Bill Ruh (02:53)
Hi everyone. For our first podcast i've got with me Alicia Lycan. I met Alicia at the Montana Summit, which is a fabulous conference where startups and investors meet and learn what it takes to succeed. I got a chance sit down with her. It was a great conversation. So I'm hopeful we
can capture the magic out of that conversation and do a little bit of that here. Welcome Alicia.
Alicia Lycan (03:18)
Thank you.
Bill Ruh (03:19)
I thought we'd discuss in three sections. First section, we'll talk about you as an entrepreneur and your journey to get here. Second section we'll talk about your company. Third section, we'll talk about how you got to Bozeman and things like that. So let's jump into the entrepreneurship section. When and why did you decide you wanted to found a company?
Alicia Lycan (03:41)
I've always been in love with creating something, having a vision and executing on it. After a couple years working for other folks, while that was time well spent, I decided to go on my own. I learned a lot in the corporate world. I worked for digital marketing. I worked as a software engineer at Nike, learned a lot about developing software that was instrumental in spring boarding me into the startup world. But I found there was always a glass ceiling on innovation.
Also, I just really enjoy working things out, problem solving, not being put in a box, and really being able to run with things. I also like working with agile teams where everyone is really great at their craft and can execute well and we can really bring something to life. When you're working in the corporate world, nothing happens very quickly so its hard to make an impact. Doing something in a way that often hasn't been done before is really rewarding.
Bill Ruh (04:41)
Well, you're a hardcore developer and I thought that was quite fascinating your background. What do you think in your background really prepared you to do this? Why not go work for somebody else's startup doing it on your own and taking out all the stress and everything that comes along with it.
Alicia Lycan (04:57)
I've always had a bit of an adventurous spirit. I have been into sports throughout my entire life and being able to develop a spirit for adventure and going into the unknown. Being uncomfortable is something I'm very attracted to. It's been where the most growth happens and where I've made the most incredible memories, relationships, and that's really, just catapulted me into that entrepreneurial mindset.
It rewards the ultra marathon runner over a sprint athlete. And I love putting in hard work and seeing that payoff and being able to really get to the other side. So I think that's what attracted me to the world of business.
There's not really like a direct path. You really have to figure it out and it demands the best of you. It's very character developing and very rewarding. I would say that is what's really kept me going.
I have this goal of building something, being a leader, someone that others look up to and want to follow. Let them see their vision within my vision. It's just being able to work on teams like that and get a taste of that really pushed me into into more of a leadership position.
And I would say, engineering. I love building proof of concepts and flushing out ideas. I don't really enjoy fixing bugs and building features. I like more of the let's figure out how this system's going to work and drive it. And I've found a sweet spot with working with teams where they're able to come step in and don't necessarily want to be driving the vision. And so I just naturally found my spot there.
Bill Ruh (06:49)
I know you are an adrenaline junkie. I see this around Bozeman where a lot of the founders really outdoorsy, but not just outdoorsy. They have that adrenaline junkie kind of thing. The lack of fear or maybe the ability to conquer your fear. I suspect everybody has fear when they do it but can get into it.
When you're doing a startup, it's much the same thing. What I'm seeing in Bozeman specifically, or in Montana startups, that there's that common thread around things. And I think you brought that out. We're going to come back to the adrenaline junkie piece later on.
You have one of the scrappiest startup I've seen in town. So how many people, in the company?
Alicia Lycan (07:36)
I say we but it's me, myself, and I depending on who I'm talking to.
Bill Ruh (07:41)
I had acquaintance tell me that he thought that it won't be long before there's a billion dollar unicorn startup of only ten people.
I dont think every startup needs huge teams of people anymore because the technology is allowing us to do it in new ways. I found it quite endearing when you said it was you, but then we got talking and it's really not just you because you've tapped into your network in a way that helps a lot. How important is your network in what you're doing? And in Bozeman, how did you tap into that?
Alicia Lycan (08:15)
Yeah, your network is your net worth. And the thing is, when you're a self-funded bootstrap startup, solo, you really need to leverage everything you can within your control and get in that mindset of playing bigger rather than smaller because you need to decrease the time horizon from where you currently are to where you desire to be, which is revenue, which is oxygen for your business. So I kind of work my way back from that and I break that down
Alicia Lycan (08:45)
I have a proof of concept. It is not scalable, but it works and it brings value and market fit. Now I need to get users and then you continue as you talk to your users, you continue to get feedback that adds value to the product. I think the hardest thing for me to learn is I am an operator and an engineer. So I want to make sure my product is something I'm really proud of. But the more time I spend on that being solo, the less is being spent on other things like sales. So you need to get really clear in your priorities and be able to drive those hard every single day and lean into the things that you're not necessarily as skilled at like high ticket sales and that's where other people come in. It's not that you're not good at it. It's a skill you haven't developed yet. So it'd be unreasonable if you didnt work at that just like anything I've worked at in sports.
Alicia Lycan (09:44)
Use your network to get better, especially if they're founders. If they've been in leadership roles in companies and they want to help you succeed then tap into that.
How you show up, how you choose to take a chance with them, be a little vulnerable, put yourself out there, ask questions, make sure that time's valuable and well spent. People will meet you where you're at and want to help you, especially out here in Bozeman. It's less cutthroat than some other environments I've been in, say in other markets.
I'm from Washington, Seattle operates a little differently. It's also quite a lot bigger. But yeah, I feel like I really tapped into something special here and there's been some incredible talent. Some of the most very successful founders are here doing amazing things. Being able to build those relationships over time. They're gonna see you continue to succeed. You never know what that could turn into. So just plant seeds and nurture that and stay focused.
Bill Ruh (10:44)
There are two things you said that just resonated so much with me. I love that comment, your network is your net worth. It is so true. I think that's what I mean about the future is that if you've got a better network, you can do it small and scrappy. You don't have to do it with large teams.
I was talking to another friend.who is a founder of a company and he was talking to a well-known venture capitalist. That venture capitalist said something quite interesting to him. He said the venture capitalists who are operators are the ones who are being much more successful today. I think being an operator and having that experience is helpful both to the founding of a company, but also in investment world.
Alicia Lycan (11:31)
It's interesting. I didn't start in engineering and I sometimes think there's a lot of value in not staying in one vertical in your career, I'm just naturally a curious person. And like you said, when you're building a business, you have to put on a lot of hats. And so I'm just so grateful that I've been able to understand not only how to build technical products, but how to communicate that value to the users and vice versa.
Alicia Lycan (11:59)
About two years ago, I had the opportunity to work with Solana and we launched a phone, Saga, maybe you've heard of it. It was amazing. I found myself just filling in gaps to bring value to the company and all of a sudden I was leading operations. I found that everything that I had learned had built up to that point really enabled me to execute well in that role.
I've been able to do that for others. We've been able to build teams, work, like you said, on a very skeleton team and launch products. Now it's just you in the driver's seat. But it's not really like you've never done it before. It's, okay, you've been able to learn from these different experiences and that's enabled you to give you the confidence and conviction to be able to execute on your own. I'm able to pull folks that I've worked with before in. It's neat knowing I have the chess pieces ready. Like you said, building those relationships and keeping those warm are important.
I'm excited to be able to jump into that next stage of the business.
Bill Ruh (13:10)
That's great. IThis idea of a network is so important. Before we talk about your company, why don't you tell me a little bit about how you ended up in Bozeman? What is the hardest thing about being a startup in Bozeman? You mentioned some great things. What do you like about being in Bozeman?
Alicia Lycan (13:27)
It's a great question. Bozeman wasn't my first choice. It wasn't even on the map, to be honest. But end of last summer, I was building this business in my hometown of Bellingham, Washington. And I just found that I didn't have a lot of, there wasn't a lot of ideation or creativeness because I didn't have peers that were also building businesses. And I felt my momentum stall. And that's the worst thing for an entrepreneur. Because again, that time horizon is not forever. So I was like, I need to do something. And so I have a Sprinter van, van life, and I decided to hit the road and I had a little map and I was going to stop in Bozeman because I had a love for the area. I spent a little time here in the past and then I was going to head to Denver and Boulder, Colorado. And as you know, Boulders got a bit of reputation for startups. So that was my plan. I never made it though, because when I in Bozeman, I just met one person and then that leapfrogged into another person. The next thing I know I was at a tech happy hour and kind of this tech underground entrepreneurial world that is in Bozeman that I had no idea existed.
So I just got brought in to that and found friends very quickly and I was thriving. And I noticed a huge change from a few weeks before. And so I decided to give it a shot. And I find that when you have green lights like that you stay. So it was an easy choice. And that was my, the most important thing for me at the time was just giving this everything I have.
Then in addition to that, there's something special about this area. You have these big mountains surrounding you. It's very inspiring. I love to get outside and I find I do some of my best thinking and creative work out there. But being able to still have that ability to be around a phenomenal network and community and build the business.
Bill Ruh (15:29)
Well, welcome to Montana. I'm glad you found Bozeman to be such a great place. I think it's true. That's why I started this podcast. But I also think there's a lot of towns around the country like this that are becoming the new startup havens. So we are going to explore that a little more in the podcast, but let's come back to you. So tell me about your startup.
Alicia Lycan (15:51)
Yes, so I started a company it's called shaped by AI and we predominantly work in the real estate industry. We help agents and brokers to adopt AI for lead generation management systems to really save time, increase their revenue and cut down on costs. So we're able to nurture and convert leads, book appointments take that off their plate.
On average an agent spends quite a bit of time prospecting. So I found an opportunity there. I grew up in a real estate family as well. My dad was the number one agent in the country of Canada for multiple years. So some of that brushed off watching him go through these challenges as an agent.
It's just been a ton of fun. Bozeman's a booming market too. So I've been able to build the product alongside other top agents and really see it flourish.
This is our first product. It's called Luna. So it's that lead nurturing system. And then we're also able to integrate that into an agents existing system. So it's full service done for you. And yeah, it's been a lot of fun so far.
Bill Ruh (17:11)
Well, know, I think it's like the best startups I've ever seen. What I've found is people have some DNA in the vertical or the technology they're going for. You clearly had that. I actually didn't know that when we had talked in the past. So it's pretty cool that you had that DNA and then at the same time you got a passion around it.
One nice thing about Montana, you can pilot things here because you can find somebody to work with. Sometimes being in a bigger market is actually a little harder to go find someone who's willing to pilot something that's is risky.
So how have you found customers to pilot this? How do you find people to go, hey, Alicia, I like what you're doing. Let me take a risk on you.
Alicia Lycan (18:01)
It's been a lot of networking. I'm just so grateful that people resonate with what you're saying. I'm constantly trying to tweak the language a little bit because that's a big thing to messaging and making sure it resonates.
I've been able to make some strong connections. The only way I got these pilots off the ground was with my network. And they're phenomenal. I cannot wait to share with you all the results. The teams I'm working with are just people I really look up to as well. So that's always fun when you like the people that are testing your product out with.
That was my initial approach to get my product off the ground, get some social proof. But in the meantime, I've been able to make more connections here in Bozeman and I now have a land developer I'm working with and a few agents.
So it's been neat to see that network build.
I feel like I started with humble beginnings. So it's amazing because I know how much I care about the product and how much I stand behind it.
But you have to be able to communicate that value to your users, otherwise no one's gonna know about you or use it. I have really been leaning into that end of things. And yeah, it's really starting to build some momentum, so I'm excited about that.
Bill Ruh (19:35)
I'll follow up with you with a few additional contacts of people I think might be worthwhile to talk to. Tell me about investors. You and I had a really interesting conversation about investors. Why didn't you bring investors in to build a team up faster? And then when do you think you're ready? How do you make that decision that you're ready to bring in investors?
Alicia Lycan (19:42)
Yeah, so I mean, I want to increase my leverage as much as possible before I bring on an investor. I want to have as much negotiation power as possible. I'm going to be very picky about who invests. There's got to be multiple facets of value there. Someone with experience building a SaaS company who can also be an advisor would be important and who doesn't necessarily put a ton of pressure and you can work with.
VCs can be pretty cutthroat. So I'd actually like to be friends or acquaintances with my investors as well. But I think the most important thing to keep in mind is you have your runway. So getting realistic about what that's going to take, being able to position yourself as you build to be attractive to investors. That's something I've been working on and learning a lot about.
One aspect of that for folks who aren't familiar with this is increasing your annual reoccurring revenue and increasing your retention. So those are two metrics that I'm working really hard at plus that influences my pricing model.
The more leverage you have, the less of the company you're gonna have to give away. And just getting really clear on my plan too, because right now the way I was able to bootstrap and didn't need a lot of capital was using other services and resources out there.
Technically, while I own the the data, I don't fully have a tool yet of where I have developed all the IP as a company. And so that's something I want to get really clear on because as soon as I take on investment, I have to start raising for the next round and my time's gonna be taken up managing the team and not necessarily being able to do a ton of development. So there's, when you pull that trigger.
I see a lot of teams out there who are young and inexperienced. And granted, I wouldn't say that I'm super experienced at building startups either, but I try and ask as many questions as possible and just figure things out. If I can get the strategy and plan in place and then how can I increase my ability to be successful? Because the last thing I want to do is bring people on and put them in a questionable position because I run out of money and then the whole thing falls apart.
Bill Ruh (22:24)
Anything you wish someone had told you before you got started that you had to learn and then adjust to?
Alicia Lycan (22:31)
I wish I would have learned sales earlier because that would have cut down on some of the time I've spent learning how to do that. I see a lot of value in having a co-founder that can really bridge the gap on some of the things I'm not as strong at. I also do believe you go further as a team and I look forward to bringing on some strong individuals who can balance out my skill sets down the road. But that's a whole other discussion for another time on co-founding and bringing on investors.
Bill Ruh (23:05)
And one last question on this section then we'll move on. Regarding your mentors, you've been reaching out to people who are very well known in the industry and they're becoming your mentors. How did that come about? And how did you decide to do that? How did you make that happen? It's quite impressive. I'm not asking you who it is because I'm not sure that's appropriate, but I was blown away by just how impactful it was.
Alicia Lycan (23:40)
I've always known that I don't know everything and I look up to people who have more experience. Whether that's what they've done in building a company, what they've achieved, their ability to influence and speak from experience. I know that I can get to my goal faster the more I surround myself with people like that.For me the worst someone can say is no.
Alicia Lycan (24:10)
Here's a hot tip for the audience. I have 100 % success rate with sending video messages on social media. So you find their account and you send a video message. No one does it. If you have their phone number, that's even better. But I've gotten replies and responses from people that you would say "you got a hold of them?"
I was myself and I sent a thoughtful message. That is how I've made a lot of connections. Also, I'm really fortunate to have put myself in situations to be able to network. Recently I went to a real estate conference, the biggest one in the world in August.
I figured I needed to be around my target audience and I got a name tag. So I had my name on it and dressed nice, I had my business cards and I just started handing them to everybody. I ended up meeting some really influential folks that way as well. So again, just being able to figure out how you can add value, ask questions to these higher successful mentorship folks is important and learning to talk less and listen more. Then they'll tell you what you need to know. You just have to be willing to ask the right questions. And so yeah, I'm very grateful for those relationships.
There's so much to learn in business that if you need to surround yourself with mentors. Maybe their knowledge or experience doesn't carry over to every aspect of the business but take what you can from different people and build on top of that.
Bill Ruh (25:58)
That's great advice by about your startup and we are all rooting for you. Just a ew final questions. We talked about you being an adrenaline junkie. So what kind of sports and activities do you like to do?
Alicia Lycan (26:14)
My passion right now is whitewater kayaking. That's typically spring into the the summer and through the fall.
And then I love to ski. So I'm in a great place in Montana for skiing.
I got into whitewater in college. That had such a phenomenal influence on the trajectory of my life and who I am today and you don't realize that in the moment but perspective is powerful thing.
I think this goes for most sports, as young kids get into sports you develop this confidence and this ability to think in the moment and really orient yourself forward and not question yourself. And so I'm so thankful for that although I fall short sometimes in those ways. It's been such a predominant theme for me in my life. There's nothing like putting your skis on and standing at the top of a cliff in a big line and being like, have you got this? And you have to really dig inside of yourself and answer is today the right day for this? Are the conditions well? And like you mentioned earlier with fearlessness, it's not so much fearlessness, but it's just putting yourself in those situations enough times to trust yourself and your gut instincts and being able to make an informed decision and manage the risk?
I find that no one's life is on the line in business typically, so it just really puts that in perspective as well when I am in a conference room or a meeting or making decisions. I'm like, well, I've done this before, so it's unreasonable for me not to be able to figure this out.
Bill Ruh (27:57)
Well, that's great and you're right that there's a lot of learnings from sports on how you have to think in a startup. You have to think, whether you're white water kayaking or skiing double black diamond, about trying to maneuver through it all. It gets your mindset right.
Alicia Lycan (28:12)
Yeah, and it's amazing too. Like you said earlier about this startup community here, you you don't exactly just like fall into Bozeman. You have to go out of your way to find it. And I'm just amazed at the caliber, like you said, of hunters and athletes here who are also really driven in business. So it's been a fun way to get to know people. You can get to know them a lot better on the ski lift for a day than over coffee. So I think that's another really huge value add to this area.
Bill Ruh (28:47)
Well, a few final questions, quick ones. What's your favorite restaurant here in Bozeman?
Alicia Lycan (28:53)
Blackbird.
Bill Ruh (28:55)
It is great. Do you have a favorite podcast other than this one, of course?
Alicia Lycan (29:01)
You know, I would say I'm a big fan of Build by Leila Hormozi. I love that she's a strong, confident woman and just it's been really great to see her progression as a leader in entrepreneurship.
Bill Ruh (29:07)
That's awesome. And, you know, last, some of our listeners may not know it, but tomorrow is a very important day here in Bozeman. It's brawl of the wild. And for those who don't know, it's one of longest standing college football rivalries where the Montana State University Bobcats who are undefeated this season are going against the University of Montana Grizzlies.
Who are you picking for that?
Alicia Lycan (29:45)
Bobcats that's 100%.
Bill Ruh (29:46)
You got the answer to that right. Alicia, this has been fantastic and we're cheering you all the way. What you're doing is quite inspiring, quite endearing, you've got to love it. So I really want to thank you for spending the time here and we follow up and see what we can do to help you grow your business.
Alicia Lycan (30:04)
Thank you. Yeah, and for those of you who don't know, Bill is very humble, but he secretly had quite the career as well. So it's been really great getting to know you, Bill.
Bill Ruh (30:15)
Thank you, Alicia.
Bill Ruh (30:18)
I hope you enjoyed that interview with Alicia Lycan the founder of Shaped by AI. She embodies the essence of scrappy startups. Now a few key takeaways from our discussion. If you're considering founding a startup, know your time horizon, be realistic with how long you need to prove out the idea and establish a minimally viable product.
Establish a timeline for bringing in investment aligned to how much value you need to create and how much do you need the capital. Now once it's off and running, have a bias for action and establish clear priorities. You need to do what matters most and not what you find the most interesting. Sales is often overlooked or imagined to be done by others when founders must lead this in the beginning. You need to create minimally viable traction with your product.
Your network is your net worth was one of the most insightful comments. This is where you get the best advice, most help, sales leads and introductions. Where your network has gaps expand it by identifying people that might feel out of reach, but then be fearless in meeting those people. Alicia mentioned her hot tip for using video messages. I thought that was great advice.
Ensure you have a mindset to deal with risk. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Scrappy Startups. Please subscribe and recommend to your network. Also, check out our sponsors, Joogi on the Google and Apple App Stores, and Last Best Place Brewery here in Bozeman, Montana. This is Bill Ruh signing off till next time.
