We Solve the 49ers Viral Conspiracy Theory

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Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman and this is Science Versus. Today
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on the show, a weird medical mystery that whipped the
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internet into a complete frenzy. And we at Science Versus
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went so deep to get to the truth behind this
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mystery that I know the internet says this all the time,
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but I am telling you, we found out things that
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no one else is talking about. And we did all
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of this with the show Pablo Torre Finds Out. They're
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a team of Pulitzer Prize winning sports journalists. So let's
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just jump in. You're going to meet the fabulous Pablo Torre.
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Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre.
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And today we're going to find out what this sound is.
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right after this. This is foreign.
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Territory for me, not merely the fact that you're across
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the world in Australia.
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Wendy Zuckerman, and thank you for doing this, by the way.
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Ah, thanks for having me.
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This is all a little strange. The studio is not
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my studio.
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You're a person I'm only really getting to know in
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the course of this very different kind of episode. I
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should explain for our audience who is just meeting you now,
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who are you exactly?
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I'm the host of Science Versus, which is a podcast
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that for 10 years has been taking things on the internet,
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whether it's a diet or a new drug that everyone's
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saying you should take.
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And we really interrogate it. We've won fancy awards. Audiences
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really trust us.
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We did an episode on the fertility cliff and people
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had babies as a result of it, Pablo.
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So they sent us photos of children. So that's how
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deep our- You brought life into the world.
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Exactly.
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That needs to lead any resume.
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Yes.
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I am responsible for untold numbers of pregnancies.
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That's right. Elon Musk would be very proud of me.
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And I want to acknowledge that you are an NFL fan,
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question mark.
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Look, if I had to choose a sport with a
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strange oblong-shaped ball, it would have to be Aussie rules football.
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That's all I'm saying there.
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So you're a football fan in a different sense, and
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I fell into a trap already.
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Great.
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Wonderful.
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If I say footy in reference to NFL, I apologize
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in advance.
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But a consistent thing about the mission of this show
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that you're kindly doing with me today in this collaboration
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with yours is that we use journalism to solve mysteries.
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Yes.
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And the mystery that we have.
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Been flooded by here at Pablo Torre finds out, the
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thing that we have been requested over and over again
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to investigate is a globally viral mystery that has clearly
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hit your shores in Australia.
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Oh, yes.
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We are talking about the San Francisco 49ers, one of
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the most iconic franchises in the NFL, in American football,
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that also happens to be plagued by injuries in a
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way that has made me contemplate what the.
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F * * * I'm supposed to believe anymore.
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This was a wild one.
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When you guys came to us and said, can you
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help us solve this? You know, I may not be
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into NFL, but oh boy, am I into science and
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into cracking mysteries just like this.
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Well, as you know, it's been another 49ers season plagued
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by the injury bug.
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There's a wild theory circulating on social media that attempts
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to explain what's going on.
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The theory's pretty straightforward.
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The 49ers have a high number of injuries compared to
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the rest of the league, and there's this big, massive
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electrical substation sitting right next to their practice facility and
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their stadium.
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Every camp highlight has the massive substation in the background,
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and all you see now is the substation.
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The thought is that these EMF waves from the electrical
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substation are making the 49ers players less healthy, and more
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at risk of injuries.
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This question about what is hurting the 49ers, why do
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they have all these injuries, could it be the substation?
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That is right down our alley.
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Add everything up across this entire 90-man roster, and roughly
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20 separate players are currently injured and unavailable to San
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Francisco in some capacity. I thought I was going to
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be able to just dismiss the substation theory. as this
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nothing burger, which is what the general manager of the 49ers,
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John Lynch, himself has called it, Wendy.
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It basically was a big nothing burger. You know, we're safe. Like,
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we're in a safe place at work.
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They say that they've hired an independent scientist to conduct
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their own study. They've now categorically said there's nothing to
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see here. This substation injury theory is not a thing.
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The scientist has not yet been named.
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And the raw data have not been published.
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And football fans, to say perhaps the most obvious part
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of this whole entire saga, they're not buying any of this.
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I don't know what the hell's going on, but the
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whole damn roster's injured again. Look, I didn't think there
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was anything to the electrical substation theory.
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Hell, I gotta be honest. What is going on?
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The electrical substations, if you have one near any of
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your facilities, even just near your house, if there's one
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near your house, I'd be worried getting out of your
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car every single day.
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There is way more to this story than....
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Simply the 49ers getting injured. That's for sure. And now
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people are saying, well, the World Health Organization says that
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this stuff coming from substations, these electromagnetic waves, possibly cause cancer.
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We're like, what is going on here? We really want
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to get to the bottom of this because we all
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have substations.
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Many of us in our neighborhoods. There's one right down
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the road from me.
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I don't know if the substation near you has the
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same rating on Google Maps that the Niners one does.
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The rating at last check here, 2.7 stars. As one
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guy wrote, quote, would not recommend this substation, ruined my
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fantasy football career, and ruined my life.
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I really want to.
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Know what substation he does recommend.
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But the thing that felt harder to dismiss than all
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of this was the cascade of articles and headlines and
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posts about data, about how the injury rates for this
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team are in fact an outlier, and not just that,
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they're the worst in the league by far. And you
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go through your memory banks as a football fan, and
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you're like, okay, there was a time that Dre Greenlaw.
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Dre.
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Greenlaw getting ready to run onto the field after that punt.
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Who's the star linebacker for the Niners, just snapped his
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Achilles while untouched in the Super Bowl.
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And he planted his left foot.
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And then there's the time that Jimmy Garoppolo, the quarterback,
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tore his ACL in 2018. There's a time that defensive
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lineman Nick Bosa tore his.
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ACL in 2020.
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There's a time that the other quarterback, Brock Purdy, tore
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his UCL in 2023. Brandon Ayuk, the wide receiver, he
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had an ACL and an MCL tear in 2024. And
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if you go and talk to these players... The guys
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who work in the shadow of said substation with a
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terrible rating, one of them being wide receiver Kendrick Bourne,
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they also want answers.
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What the hell is going on with all the injuries
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that the Niners have every year? Power plant.
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Do you buy that?
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I kind of buy it. I'm a conspiracy theorist, so
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I don't know, bro. Our grass is brown on that
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side and the soccer field on the other side is green.
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So that kind of trips me out.
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A little bit.
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Yeah, and in case you think that the grass is
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always greener theory is unique to Kendrick Bourne, Here is
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Harvard-educated fullback Kyle Juszczyk on the same subject.
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It's one of those things that it's just so hard
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to say because the science is not clear behind it.
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And I'm very much just a science-driven person, and I
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want to see the numbers and the statistics. I mean,
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is it a coincidence that we've led the NFL in
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injuries for the last decade?
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I want to see.
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what someone who truly understands that field, what they have
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to say about it, and just be curious to know.
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Wow.
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Welcome to the party. That is us!
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That is us!
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So, Wendy, this whole thing, I believe, started with a guy.
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Yes.
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The person, the human being, who's actually behind the viral
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post and headline that has started all of this.
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My name is Peter Anthony Cowan, and I run my
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own wellness business, and environmental health is really my focus.
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Peter Cowan, as a matter of, I think, just journalistic rigor,
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I want to know what his deal is.
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Yes, yes, I did as well.
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So Peter Cowan, he grew up in the Bay Area,
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so he's always been a casual 49ers fan.
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I don't know the names of the positions, really. I just,
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I watch these beautiful angles and motions and it's like
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ballet to me.
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And by the way, he's a musician and he actually
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wrote this and recorded it.
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This is Peter.
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We're listening to Peter Cowan tinkling the ivories right now.
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That's correct. This is Peter.
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So he's watching this ballet of football and he starts
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seeing his beautiful prima ballerinas getting injured. The 49ers in
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particular are getting hammered with injuries, always having this trouble.
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And then somewhere along the way, Peter stumbles across a
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radio interview on a local Bay Area sports station that
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he likes to listen to. And it's an interview with
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X-49ers player John Feliciano.
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This is September 2025.
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It's 95.7 The Game in San Francisco.
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And John Feliciano is the guest.
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49er fans where it seems like and actually the data
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suggests it doesn't seem like it's fact. Usually and almost
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always the 49ers are one of the most injured teams
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in the league.
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And the hosts are talking about all of these injuries
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that the 49ers are getting.
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And it's gotten to the point where people are like
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it can't just be dumb luck. Like there's got to
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be something to it.
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We used to joke that it was the power plant
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behind the practice fields.
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It's important to say that it's not a power plant near.
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The 49ers site.
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Okay, so please explain the difference between a substation and.
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A power plant.
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So a power plant generates the energy, creates the energy,
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and then it transmits it over to a substation. What
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it does is it converts the voltage into a voltage
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that then your house can use, basically. So it changes
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the voltage and then transmits that electricity to... your home
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or your business so that you can power your heater,
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your lights, your computer, any form of electricity in your
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home is basically coming from electricity that's come.
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Through a substation.
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This really stops Peter in his tracks is because he
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is worried that substations emit electromagnetic fields. And basically these
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fields are waves of electric and magnetic energy that move together.
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And Peter wonders, what if John Feliciano is right?
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What if those fields are harming the players and increasing
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their risk of getting injured? Because it's not just that
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the substation is close to the practice field. It's also
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that the stadium that the players play at, Levi's Stadium,
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it's also so close.
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And when you go up, you walk up the back steps,
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you're looking right over the substation. And it's just, you
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can hear it buzzing and stuff.
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So how much buzzing are we really talking about?
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Great question.
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We actually sent a reporter to the site and look,
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she went to the loudest point that she could find.
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And here's what she said to us.
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I feel like data centers have been absorbing a lot
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of the criticism for just ungodly noises emitted by electrical facilities.
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I feel like the substation is rightfully now in the conversation.
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I mean, it's not birds tweeting. It's not a nice sound.
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That's for sure.
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It's not piano and ballet.
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And so Peter can't get this idea out.
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Of his mind.
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Could this substation be causing the injuries?
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Right.
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So I think it's really important to know about Peter's
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00:13:24.590 --> 00:13:26.429
backstory here, which is actually.
254
00:13:27.269 --> 00:13:27.830
fascinating.
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00:13:27.850 --> 00:13:30.190
I like to start with this one. I dropped out
256
00:13:30.210 --> 00:13:35.750
of high school and I went on to become a hacker.
257
00:13:36.090 --> 00:13:36.970
I was into coding.
258
00:13:36.990 --> 00:13:39.529
You would have been an early hacker. You would have
259
00:13:39.710 --> 00:13:40.929
done well, I imagine.
260
00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:41.990
Yeah, we did.
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00:13:42.090 --> 00:13:44.529
And I'm pretty sure the statute of limitations for wire
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00:13:44.570 --> 00:13:49.480
fraud is only 25 years. So I think I'm good. No,
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00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.330
it was the 90s, man. Like, it was a wild west.
264
00:13:52.870 --> 00:13:55.389
The statute of limitations for why fraud is actually only
265
00:13:55.450 --> 00:13:57.529
five years, so Peter is absolutely fine.
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00:13:57.690 --> 00:13:59.309
This is very reassuring.
267
00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:05.129
So, bigger picture, Peter is not a scientist per se,
268
00:14:05.250 --> 00:14:07.830
but he grew up, moved on from hacking, and then
269
00:14:07.909 --> 00:14:11.100
eventually went down a path that many hackers from the
270
00:14:11.429 --> 00:14:13.919
90s went down, which is you get into software engineering.
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00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:14.860
He did.
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00:14:15.490 --> 00:14:18.669
end up working for a wireless networking company and he
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00:14:18.710 --> 00:14:22.629
starts writing firmware for Wi-Fi routers, just like the Wi-Fi
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00:14:22.690 --> 00:14:26.809
router that you might have at your home. And Wi-Fi,
275
00:14:27.309 --> 00:14:30.110
by the way, also emits electromagnetic waves.
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00:14:30.570 --> 00:14:33.029
Yeah, I should say there's a whole world of people
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00:14:33.070 --> 00:14:36.450
who turn off their Wi-Fi at night because.
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00:14:35.789 --> 00:14:36.690
They're worried about the waves.
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00:14:36.730 --> 00:14:39.210
And Christian McCaffrey, who's a star running back for the Niners,
280
00:14:39.690 --> 00:14:40.889
is apparently one of these people.
281
00:14:40.929 --> 00:14:43.889
He's talked about this very publicly. Turning your Wi-Fi off
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00:14:43.929 --> 00:14:45.870
at night is, You know, does it help?
283
00:14:45.889 --> 00:14:47.210
I don't know. Someone said it will.
284
00:14:47.269 --> 00:14:47.830
It can't hurt.
285
00:14:47.870 --> 00:14:49.789
So let me try. That's really my thought.
286
00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.120
Am I now worried as we proceed through this story
287
00:14:53.539 --> 00:14:54.620
about my own Wi-Fi?
288
00:14:55.340 --> 00:14:55.860
Peter did.
289
00:14:56.179 --> 00:15:00.279
Peter did start worrying about the electromagnetic waves being emitted
290
00:15:00.350 --> 00:15:02.389
from his Wi-Fi. He told us he had some medical
291
00:15:02.450 --> 00:15:05.590
issues that doctors couldn't really explain. It was stuff like
292
00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:11.299
panic attacks, difficulty sleeping, cold sweats, shakes. And he started thinking,
293
00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.360
could it be from the Wi-Fi router? Could it be
294
00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:16.440
from electromagnetic waves more generally?
295
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.860
And so I started looking into literature and realizing, ah,
296
00:15:20.870 --> 00:15:24.970
there's actually more to it than that. And so the
297
00:15:25.029 --> 00:15:30.289
idea is that we are increasing the amount of free radicals,
298
00:15:30.590 --> 00:15:35.230
which long-term creates more oxidative stress.
299
00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:39.539
The thing he's saying is that, okay, what if... These
300
00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:44.240
EMF waves coming from Wi-Fi and substations and stuff, what
301
00:15:44.259 --> 00:15:49.289
if they, through oxidative stress, were the things attacking the
302
00:15:49.409 --> 00:15:53.149
tendons of these athletes, of these San Francisco 49ers players?
303
00:15:53.789 --> 00:15:56.649
This is exactly where Peter is going.
304
00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:03.340
So he starts thinking that this oxidative stress could weaken collagen.
305
00:16:02.940 --> 00:16:05.340
And Collagen is a protein.
306
00:16:05.379 --> 00:16:07.559
It's also found in tendons and ligaments.
307
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.000
It's super, super important.
308
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:14.549
So if indeed electromagnetic waves are weakening collagen, then that
309
00:16:14.809 --> 00:16:20.429
could increase the risk of tendon, ligament injuries. And he
310
00:16:20.509 --> 00:16:24.309
ultimately decides to go to the practice area.
311
00:16:24.340 --> 00:16:26.679
And measure the electromagnetic waves.
312
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:30.019
Okay, we're here at Levi's Stadium.
313
00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.500
So towards the end of last year, He drives up
314
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:38.330
to the substation, parks nearby, and he starts measuring.
315
00:16:39.850 --> 00:16:45.549
So, this is as close as I could get. But
316
00:16:45.669 --> 00:16:52.909
even right here, I'm reading almost 9 milligauss. Definitely a concern.
317
00:16:52.929 --> 00:16:55.409
And this is what he told us.
318
00:16:56.889 --> 00:16:59.419
Well, first I started measuring, just to kind of see
319
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:01.539
what I was dealing with. And I started finding elevated
320
00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:04.609
fields all over the place. The reading I had was
321
00:17:04.990 --> 00:17:07.910
between 8.5 and 9 milligauss. So the first thing I'm
322
00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:10.210
thinking when I see that is, that's way higher than
323
00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:11.440
I would want to be exposed to.
324
00:17:12.500 --> 00:17:15.680
And so a milligauss as a unit of measurement, that
325
00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:17.720
is a lot?
326
00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:21.759
Normally, if you're just on your couch, say, you'd be
327
00:17:21.819 --> 00:17:26.700
exposed to about 1 or 2 milligauss. So 8 or 9,
328
00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:27.609
it is higher than normal.
329
00:17:28.750 --> 00:17:31.650
And at one point, he actually measures 50 milligauss.
330
00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:35.059
Coming off what's called a feeder line, which he thinks
331
00:17:35.140 --> 00:17:38.740
is running underground from the substation under the stadium.
332
00:17:40.049 --> 00:17:42.250
Now, I'm just a guy who's learning about what a
333
00:17:42.269 --> 00:17:44.750
milligauss is in the last two minutes.
334
00:17:44.930 --> 00:17:45.170
Right.
335
00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:51.819
But 50 feels like a fuckton to use another unit
336
00:17:51.859 --> 00:17:52.480
of measurement.
337
00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:55.019
Peter reckons he's onto something here.
338
00:17:56.140 --> 00:17:59.319
He thinks kind of this is evidence now that the
339
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.369
49ers are getting pummeled with these dangerous electromagnetic waves.
340
00:18:04.950 --> 00:18:07.809
This is a piece in the puzzle here.
341
00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:14.230
Now, this is where I got to say that like
342
00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:17.630
the owner of the San Francisco 49ers, Jed York, has
343
00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:21.700
been asked about the substation and his go-to response is,
344
00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:26.000
this thing has been around for years, right? I mean,
345
00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.809
this is something that predates this certain run of injuries
346
00:18:30.849 --> 00:18:31.849
that we've been describing.
347
00:18:32.069 --> 00:18:32.250
Right.
348
00:18:32.930 --> 00:18:34.509
I mean, this has been around since the 80s when
349
00:18:34.529 --> 00:18:37.089
they were winning titles very healthily.
350
00:18:37.450 --> 00:18:38.980
It hasn't been around since the 80s.
351
00:18:39.069 --> 00:18:41.450
Another fact check there, even though it has been widely
352
00:18:41.490 --> 00:18:44.089
reported that we fact checked it, but it has been
353
00:18:44.109 --> 00:18:47.269
around for decades. I think it was there since 2005.
354
00:18:47.269 --> 00:18:51.240
So Peter had thought about this. And he read that
355
00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:54.380
the substation actually expanded in 2014.
356
00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:56.319
And this has been reported widely.
357
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.829
As we know, there were renovations done on this substation
358
00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:02.829
in 2014. It's officially called the Mission substation.
359
00:19:02.849 --> 00:19:06.730
It's in the New York Times, ESPN, CBS.
360
00:19:07.569 --> 00:19:12.039
And so now Peter figures, you know, bada bing, bada boom.
361
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:18.539
substation expands, 2014 starts emitting more of these electromagnetic waves.
362
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:21.710
And that is around the time when people are talking
363
00:19:21.750 --> 00:19:24.910
about that the 49ers start getting more and more injured, right?
364
00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:25.549
Yes.
365
00:19:26.230 --> 00:19:28.509
So Peter writes all of this in.
366
00:19:28.490 --> 00:19:32.160
A series of substacks, citing scientific evidence to back up
367
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:37.619
his claim. and noting that since 2014, the 49ers have
368
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:39.009
been decimated by injuries.
369
00:19:39.109 --> 00:19:41.769
I'll quote Peter Substack here, suffering, quote.
370
00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:47.309
Far more full Achilles and patella tendon ruptures than league average,
371
00:19:47.710 --> 00:19:50.279
end quote. He said, along with, you know, nasty hamstring
372
00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.440
and calf tears, he wrote these kinds of injuries, quote,
373
00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:55.920
turned into an annual rite.
374
00:19:55.700 --> 00:19:57.740
Of passage, end quote, for the 49ers.
375
00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:00.240
Yeah, this was sort of their identity.
376
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.119
And then in January this year, Peter presses publish, along
377
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.259
with posting it on X.
378
00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:09.720
And then he told me, funnily enough, He actually doesn't
379
00:20:09.940 --> 00:20:11.680
think that much about the post.
380
00:20:12.019 --> 00:20:16.220
He celebrates this Irish tradition called Little Christmas on January
381
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.619
the 6th, hangs out with his kids.
382
00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:21.910
I just like that there's another tradition on January the
383
00:20:21.950 --> 00:20:23.910
6th that is not the one I think of at
384
00:20:23.950 --> 00:20:26.130
this point. But shout out to Little Christmas.
385
00:20:26.529 --> 00:20:29.170
The rebrand. We could take the rebrand back. Exactly.
386
00:20:29.650 --> 00:20:32.890
But eventually, Peter does check to see how his post
387
00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:33.329
is doing.
388
00:20:34.390 --> 00:20:36.849
And I open up my computer and it's at 500,000 views.
389
00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:39.230
And I'm just shocked.
390
00:20:40.309 --> 00:20:44.130
This post will eventually reach more than 22 million views.
391
00:20:44.430 --> 00:20:45.950
It just completely blows up.
392
00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:46.509
Yes.
393
00:20:47.029 --> 00:20:49.200
You've got Joe Rogan talking about it.
394
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.940
So that's where the electrical substation is, and there's the field.
395
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:54.279
I mean, cut the shit.
396
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:54.819
Whoa.
397
00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.920
That can't be good. So it's literally radiating onto them.
398
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:58.960
That can't be good.
399
00:20:59.539 --> 00:21:03.200
You've got players reaching out to Peter himself, the NFL responding.
400
00:21:03.299 --> 00:21:05.119
What I would tell you, Eric, because it deals with.
401
00:21:06.829 --> 00:21:09.190
Allegedly, you know, the health and safety of our players.
402
00:21:09.269 --> 00:21:11.549
I think you have to look into everything.
403
00:21:12.009 --> 00:21:16.130
The 49ers hiring the independent scientist and you and me, Pablo,
404
00:21:16.150 --> 00:21:18.009
spending months of our lives trying to get to the
405
00:21:18.049 --> 00:21:18.710
bottom of this.
406
00:21:19.339 --> 00:21:20.900
And Peter told us that.
407
00:21:21.619 --> 00:21:27.140
Actually what is driving him are studies that he reckons
408
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:33.599
are connecting power lines and substations to our health more generally,
409
00:21:34.299 --> 00:21:36.559
including things like childhood leukemia.
410
00:21:37.329 --> 00:21:39.250
Did I get into this field because I was concerned
411
00:21:39.410 --> 00:21:44.650
about athletes snapping their tendons? Not really. I'm more concerned
412
00:21:44.690 --> 00:21:50.720
about oxidative stress, mitochondrial damage in general contributing to just
413
00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:55.779
a sea of chronic diseases across the population, across the world.
414
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:59.440
Yeah, and I gotta say, I appreciate Peter's concern.
415
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.359
My issue is just that he's, again, not an insult,
416
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:04.880
he's just not a scientist.
417
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.950
Yeah. At all.
418
00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:09.329
So I think it's time to talk to a scientist.
419
00:22:11.130 --> 00:22:13.230
So we spoke to.
420
00:22:12.970 --> 00:22:17.710
A handful, probably more researchers, but one guy I want
421
00:22:17.730 --> 00:22:19.430
to introduce you to now is Dr.
422
00:22:19.470 --> 00:22:20.390
Ken Karapides.
423
00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:21.490
Okay.
424
00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:27.079
So my name is Ken Karapides. I'm the Assistant Director
425
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:32.220
of Health Impact Assessment at the Australian Radiation Protection Nuclear
426
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.470
Safety Agency. And I'm also the vice chair of the
427
00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:38.829
International Commission on Non-Ironising Radiation Protection.
428
00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:44.170
He has never received money from industry. This is something
429
00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:48.309
that people who are sceptical of electromagnetic waves worry about
430
00:22:48.410 --> 00:22:50.869
big tech getting their paws into the research.
431
00:22:51.390 --> 00:22:53.029
Ken really knows his stuff here.
432
00:22:53.109 --> 00:22:57.230
He has spent more than 20 years researching, reading the
433
00:22:57.289 --> 00:23:02.029
studies on whether the kinds of electromagnetic waves being emitted from.
434
00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:03.079
Substations, power lines.
435
00:23:03.690 --> 00:23:06.130
Also the Wi-Fi in your home, whether it is dangerous
436
00:23:06.190 --> 00:23:09.900
and you need to worry about it. One of the
437
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:12.420
first things he said is it is really important to
438
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:16.519
know whether these waves are dangerous or not because they're
439
00:23:16.539 --> 00:23:19.460
obviously not just near the 49ers practice area.
440
00:23:21.410 --> 00:23:24.519
They're all around us because we're surrounded by electrical things.
441
00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.579
I mean, in this room right now, you know, we've got...
442
00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:31.630
So it's ubiquitous. Yeah. You're never not exposed to.
443
00:23:31.809 --> 00:23:35.519
So right now, you, Pablo, you've got electrical stuff everywhere.
444
00:23:35.769 --> 00:23:40.930
all around you, your laptop, the microphone, everything. So these
445
00:23:41.029 --> 00:23:44.250
kinds of electromagnetic waves that are coming off the substation.
446
00:23:44.650 --> 00:23:45.470
They're really long.
447
00:23:45.529 --> 00:23:49.319
They're called extremely low frequency electromagnetic waves.
448
00:23:49.410 --> 00:23:50.569
And they are also.
449
00:23:50.490 --> 00:23:55.039
Getting emitted from the electrical equipment around you and in
450
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:55.519
your home.
451
00:23:55.700 --> 00:23:59.660
So the lights, the computer, the.
452
00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:06.920
Microphone, your TV, electric blankets, everything is emitting these electromagnetic waves.
453
00:24:07.420 --> 00:24:10.299
So as somebody who is sleeping on top of his
454
00:24:10.339 --> 00:24:14.009
cell phone most nights, it sticks to me and I
455
00:24:14.049 --> 00:24:15.490
have to peel it off when I wake up in
456
00:24:15.509 --> 00:24:16.069
the morning.
457
00:24:16.089 --> 00:24:16.859
Your phone, yes.
458
00:24:17.009 --> 00:24:19.089
Is this an issue? Am I in danger?
459
00:24:19.390 --> 00:24:21.630
Okay, so that is the question.
460
00:24:22.089 --> 00:24:27.740
I asked Ken, what happens when these waves waft through
461
00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:28.160
our body?
462
00:24:28.589 --> 00:24:30.750
They are creating little currents inside our body.
463
00:24:30.869 --> 00:24:31.890
Everywhere, little currents.
464
00:24:31.950 --> 00:24:35.009
Correct, little currents. But they're really low, so you don't
465
00:24:35.029 --> 00:24:36.029
actually feel them.
466
00:24:36.509 --> 00:24:41.279
So electromagnetic fields tickle ions in our body, and this
467
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.859
actually makes little currents. But like Ken said, right now,
468
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:48.539
you and I, we can't feel them, but.
469
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:51.980
If the current is high enough, you get electrostimulation.
470
00:24:53.329 --> 00:24:54.730
What does it feel like? Have you had it done?
471
00:24:54.849 --> 00:24:58.559
No, because the power level, it's like getting electrocuted, basically.
472
00:24:58.630 --> 00:24:58.940
Oh, okay.
473
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.500
So, you know, if you touch a live, I mean,
474
00:25:00.579 --> 00:25:01.880
it hasn't happened to me. I don't know if it's
475
00:25:01.900 --> 00:25:02.589
happened to you.
476
00:25:02.660 --> 00:25:04.640
No, but I've seen Jurassic Park, so I know.
477
00:25:04.660 --> 00:25:06.759
So, in other words, like the Jurassic Park test is
478
00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:09.049
if I touch this thing and it's not shocking me,
479
00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:12.690
am I okay? Like, what does it mean given that Peter,
480
00:25:12.950 --> 00:25:16.630
with his gauss meter, was recording, you know, a 50
481
00:25:16.630 --> 00:25:17.930
milligauss rating?
482
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.059
So I asked him, what about the 50 milligrams? Is
483
00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:24.950
that high? How worried should we be here?
484
00:25:25.569 --> 00:25:30.710
So 50 milligrams is higher than what's normally encountered. However,
485
00:25:30.730 --> 00:25:33.960
it is still below much, much lower than the limer.
486
00:25:34.950 --> 00:25:39.279
So the limer for the general public is 2,000 milligauss.
487
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:41.950
Whoa. Oh, okay. And what happens at 2,000?
488
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:46.990
Well, nothing happens at 2,000 milligauss. Right. Because the safety
489
00:25:47.029 --> 00:25:48.450
factor is built within the limer.
490
00:25:48.890 --> 00:25:52.609
So this is an enormous development for my numeracy around
491
00:25:52.630 --> 00:25:53.230
the milligauss.
492
00:25:53.730 --> 00:25:57.019
You were worried that 50 milligauss was a shit ton.
493
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:01.980
For narrative tension purposes, I didn't reveal that actually 50
494
00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:03.740
milligauss is not particularly high.
495
00:26:04.099 --> 00:26:07.319
Thank you for not calling me out for being an idiot.
496
00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:08.220
No, I mean, well.
497
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.400
That's so many more milligauss before we have to worry.
498
00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.200
Yes.
499
00:26:12.730 --> 00:26:14.450
One thing that we know can happen when you put
500
00:26:14.490 --> 00:26:16.769
the power up, when you crank it up too high,
501
00:26:16.789 --> 00:26:20.009
of these kinds of electromagnetic waves is that they can
502
00:26:20.130 --> 00:26:24.349
stimulate cells in your retina and you can get kind.
503
00:26:23.690 --> 00:26:25.039
Of stars in your eyes.
504
00:26:25.059 --> 00:26:27.039
You know when you rub your eyes and you see
505
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:31.759
those little white thingies? So from experiments, that can happen
506
00:26:31.819 --> 00:26:37.380
when people are exposed to more than 50,000 milligrams.
507
00:26:38.309 --> 00:26:38.660
Okay.
508
00:26:39.269 --> 00:26:40.549
Significantly more.
509
00:26:41.019 --> 00:26:45.700
That's a thousand times more than the highest point that
510
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:47.460
Peter measured.
511
00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:49.960
Then you want to go even higher.
512
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.359
You've got nerve stimulation where you might feel a bit
513
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:54.559
tingly or twitchy.
514
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.980
That's happening at hundreds of thousands of milligrams.
515
00:26:58.299 --> 00:27:01.420
And so this now brings us to, again, the 49ers
516
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.910
general manager, John Lynch, who when he announced this independent
517
00:27:04.950 --> 00:27:08.009
study by an independent scientist that has very few details
518
00:27:08.049 --> 00:27:10.150
publicly otherwise, he did say.
519
00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:11.470
We're safe.
520
00:27:11.890 --> 00:27:15.849
We're in a safe place at work. The levels are,
521
00:27:16.609 --> 00:27:21.230
like I read in there, 400 times less than unsafe zones.
522
00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:23.420
And I guess, Wendy, if you're taking that at face value,
523
00:27:23.500 --> 00:27:27.400
he's saying that whatever your threshold is for safe, we're
524
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:29.640
400 times below whatever that would be.
525
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.059
Yeah, exactly.
526
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:36.099
And so to this, Peter would say, I don't like
527
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:42.160
these levels. because they're not including perhaps more subtle effects
528
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:44.680
like oxidative stress.
529
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:47.859
The erosion of our tendons and ligaments with the collagen
530
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:48.660
stuff from before.
531
00:27:48.980 --> 00:27:49.880
That's Peter's argument.
532
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:52.420
And so then my question became, and I think it's
533
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.549
a good question, is so what do we know about
534
00:27:56.950 --> 00:28:03.509
whether electromagnetic waves at this power level, this thereabouts, can
535
00:28:03.549 --> 00:28:09.099
actually cause oxidative stress? And you can go online right
536
00:28:09.140 --> 00:28:16.119
now and find scores of studies showing that electromagnetic waves
537
00:28:16.309 --> 00:28:19.849
at this basic power level, they do increase oxidative stress.
538
00:28:19.970 --> 00:28:22.289
These are the kinds of studies that Peter is pointing
539
00:28:22.329 --> 00:28:23.329
to and that he's worried about.
540
00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:27.670
The issue is they are not studies in people.
541
00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:31.970
Wait a minute. What are we studying, Wendy?
542
00:28:32.250 --> 00:28:35.349
We are studying cells, a cell in a dish.
543
00:28:36.210 --> 00:28:38.130
What these studies do is they take a cell, a
544
00:28:38.170 --> 00:28:38.789
blood cell.
545
00:28:39.250 --> 00:28:43.190
Maybe sperm, and then they will expose it to electromagnetic
546
00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:47.150
waves and then measure for markers of oxidative stress.
547
00:28:47.230 --> 00:28:49.059
And sometimes they say, yes, look, we found it.
548
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:53.220
Right. But the thing is, you can also find studies
549
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:56.799
that find the exact opposite. They'll do basically the same
550
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:02.230
thing and find that now it lowers oxidative stress. These
551
00:29:02.269 --> 00:29:04.190
electromagnetic waves are helpful.
552
00:29:05.130 --> 00:29:07.109
So you're saying that this is bad, but it's also good.
553
00:29:07.549 --> 00:29:09.509
What I'm saying is you need to be careful when
554
00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:12.309
you're looking at science and that you don't cherry pick
555
00:29:12.329 --> 00:29:16.589
your data. So what you find is that people who
556
00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:20.390
really are worried about electromagnetic waves, they will dismiss the
557
00:29:20.430 --> 00:29:24.359
studies that show, look, it's actually helpful. They collect the
558
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.200
studies that show that it's harmful and say.
559
00:29:26.259 --> 00:29:27.440
Look at all this data.
560
00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:30.119
But the broader point is that these are studies in
561
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.940
cells and cells are not people. Even you take a
562
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:39.589
study in rats and if we think about, say, you know,
563
00:29:40.470 --> 00:29:44.059
drug development we're constantly curing cancer in rats and then
564
00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:47.619
you take that whatever chemical they're testing and you try
565
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.160
it out in humans and the chance it's going to
566
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:52.440
work is so so low.
567
00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:55.420
What i'm what i'm finding out is that the lab
568
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.859
rat uh has it pretty.
569
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.089
Good The lab rat has it so bad.
570
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:04.809
Long maligned, the lab rat has it better than us people.
571
00:30:05.569 --> 00:30:09.529
But I think the broader point is you really need
572
00:30:09.609 --> 00:30:10.269
to look.
573
00:30:10.109 --> 00:30:11.730
At studies in people.
574
00:30:12.029 --> 00:30:15.470
If you want to make a claim like electromagnetic waves
575
00:30:15.809 --> 00:30:20.359
are harming collagen, increasing the risk of injuries, increasing oxidative stress,
576
00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:24.019
the cell studies, the animal studies, they can.
577
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.119
Help you out, but you need the studies in people.
578
00:30:27.349 --> 00:30:30.150
I did ask Peter, what studies do you have in
579
00:30:30.269 --> 00:30:35.789
people that really prove your point that these waves cause
580
00:30:35.849 --> 00:30:37.970
oxidative stress? And he sent us a couple of papers,
581
00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:41.799
and I want to go through them a little deeply here.
582
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:44.000
So you want to grade some papers right now?
583
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:49.799
No, I want to have some fun with science, Pablo. So,
584
00:30:49.859 --> 00:30:50.259
all right.
585
00:30:50.420 --> 00:30:55.529
Study one comes from India. India. And basically what the
586
00:30:55.569 --> 00:30:58.869
researchers did is they got people that worked at a substation,
587
00:30:59.410 --> 00:31:02.500
they were doing maintenance or installing power lines, then they
588
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.359
took some blood samples from them, measured markers of oxidative
589
00:31:05.380 --> 00:31:09.519
stress inside their blood, and found that workers installing the
590
00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:12.970
power lines had higher levels of oxidative stress than a
591
00:31:13.170 --> 00:31:14.369
group of admin workers.
592
00:31:15.410 --> 00:31:16.650
Which follows Peter's theory.
593
00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:17.930
Follows Peter's theory, yes.
594
00:31:18.049 --> 00:31:21.690
People are being dosed with EMF waves and look what's happening.
595
00:31:22.029 --> 00:31:22.769
Right, okay.
596
00:31:22.789 --> 00:31:26.150
But then if you actually read the guts of the paper,
597
00:31:26.190 --> 00:31:28.970
you go deeper than that, you.
598
00:31:28.930 --> 00:31:29.890
Know, abstract.
599
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.119
Yeah, we're getting at the all 22 feet.
600
00:31:32.420 --> 00:31:34.900
We're examining all the angles of the play here.
601
00:31:35.380 --> 00:31:40.220
You'll notice the researchers didn't actually measure how much of
602
00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:44.039
these electromagnetic waves anyone in this study was exposed to.
603
00:31:44.539 --> 00:31:45.519
And Ken said this is a.
604
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:48.140
Problem because instead what they did is they just based
605
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.599
it on someone's job title and made an assumption.
606
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:55.160
Sometimes somebody might have a job title as maintenance, but
607
00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:58.150
they might be the boss, just work in the office,
608
00:31:58.170 --> 00:31:58.450
you know.
609
00:31:58.509 --> 00:31:58.930
Right, yes.
610
00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:04.650
So, again, job titles are– people use it as a
611
00:32:04.670 --> 00:32:08.210
de facto measure of exposure. Yeah. But studies have shown
612
00:32:08.250 --> 00:32:09.589
that they're really poor. Okay.
613
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.480
Ken said that's a bad idea because we know from
614
00:32:13.549 --> 00:32:16.890
other research that you might have a job title that's
615
00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:21.569
like power line installer, but you're actually a manager and
616
00:32:21.650 --> 00:32:24.460
you sit in an office all day. Or you might
617
00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:27.839
look like your admin staff, but actually you are on
618
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:28.400
site all day.
619
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.480
Yeah, this is like how a podcast producer is not
620
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:33.380
getting credit for actually being your therapist.
621
00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:40.470
Similar, yes. And then there are some bigger issues that
622
00:32:40.529 --> 00:32:41.390
Ken pointed out.
623
00:32:42.029 --> 00:32:44.829
When you look at all the tables, the numbers don't
624
00:32:44.890 --> 00:32:45.150
add up.
625
00:32:45.890 --> 00:32:46.450
Oh, no.
626
00:32:46.589 --> 00:32:50.089
Just silly things like that. It's a really big red flag.
627
00:32:50.309 --> 00:32:51.690
Yeah, where are these missing people?
628
00:32:51.710 --> 00:32:53.240
Where are all these missing numbers?
629
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:53.960
What's this missing data?
630
00:32:54.309 --> 00:32:57.089
So in the abstract, for example, they tell you that
631
00:32:57.109 --> 00:33:01.059
there's 142 substation workers that they're studying. Then you start
632
00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:04.039
looking at the tables. They've only got blood samples.
633
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:04.319
For 130 workers.
634
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:09.240
So you're like, where's the other 12? Maybe you couldn't
635
00:33:09.259 --> 00:33:13.059
get blood samples from them, sure. But then you look
636
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:16.400
at the actual things they were measuring in the blood,
637
00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:20.319
the so-called markers of oxidative stress, and now all of
638
00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:23.240
a sudden you're losing more samples. There was in one
639
00:33:23.269 --> 00:33:28.569
of them, there was only 117 workers. And without explanation
640
00:33:28.609 --> 00:33:32.670
in the paper of where are the missing numbers, it's
641
00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:34.289
tasting poisonous.
642
00:33:35.019 --> 00:33:37.579
What you're saying is that it is conspicuous when a
643
00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:43.269
nice abstract summarizes neatly a phenomenon, but the numbers don't
644
00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:45.569
actually justify those findings.
645
00:33:46.150 --> 00:33:47.069
That's exactly right.
646
00:33:47.470 --> 00:33:50.990
I wouldn't be using this study even as a hypothesis. Okay. Okay,
647
00:33:51.269 --> 00:33:52.430
moving on to the other study.
648
00:33:52.450 --> 00:33:52.970
Please.
649
00:33:53.349 --> 00:33:54.750
So that was the Indian study.
650
00:33:54.930 --> 00:33:57.069
He's shaking his head.
651
00:33:57.109 --> 00:33:59.430
You said you weren't grading papers, and you guys are
652
00:33:59.910 --> 00:34:01.230
violently grading papers.
653
00:34:02.029 --> 00:34:04.460
But we're also having fun with science, aren't we?
654
00:34:05.539 --> 00:34:05.960
You are.
655
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:08.599
Like football, science can be violent and fun.
656
00:34:09.019 --> 00:34:11.610
So, this other paper.
657
00:34:12.139 --> 00:34:15.349
This is actually an error that you see in a
658
00:34:15.570 --> 00:34:17.110
lot of stuff online.
659
00:34:17.449 --> 00:34:19.110
Super important people understand it.
660
00:34:19.469 --> 00:34:23.269
This paper got power plant workers, measured various markers of
661
00:34:23.349 --> 00:34:26.710
oxidative stress again, but then they went further and they
662
00:34:26.809 --> 00:34:30.010
also gave everyone a test to see how depressed and
663
00:34:30.090 --> 00:34:31.159
burnt out they were.
664
00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:32.760
Then they compared.
665
00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:38.139
that data to hospital admin staff and ultimately reported that
666
00:34:38.179 --> 00:34:41.780
the power plant workers had higher rates of depression and
667
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:45.889
what they called burnout syndrome and they said this quote
668
00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:50.690
may be caused by exposure to magnetic fields possibly from
669
00:34:50.750 --> 00:34:51.769
oxidative stress.
670
00:34:51.989 --> 00:34:55.449
I am but a humble sociology major um But it
671
00:34:55.530 --> 00:34:59.630
does feel like correlation and causation, not quite.
672
00:34:59.409 --> 00:35:00.449
The same thing.
673
00:35:00.469 --> 00:35:00.780
Yes, yes.
674
00:35:00.949 --> 00:35:02.199
That's it. That's it.
675
00:35:02.300 --> 00:35:06.719
So we basically have no idea from a study like this,
676
00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:11.389
if electromagnetic waves... caused the depression and the burnout syndrome
677
00:35:11.409 --> 00:35:13.869
had anything to do with these symptoms. With a study
678
00:35:13.889 --> 00:35:15.889
like this where you're just capturing people at one point
679
00:35:15.929 --> 00:35:19.239
in time, it's actually impossible to make a claim like that.
680
00:35:19.550 --> 00:35:22.300
But there are things that you can do statistically to
681
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.719
rule out what else might be causing the burnout. You know,
682
00:35:27.739 --> 00:35:31.420
are we sure it's the oxidative stress or perhaps could
683
00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:32.000
it be?
684
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.500
It could be that working in a power plant is
685
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:37.980
actually quite You know, it gives you a burnout. Yes,
686
00:35:38.019 --> 00:35:38.739
it's stressful.
687
00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:39.679
Stressful.
688
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.500
And you get, you know, quite a stressful job.
689
00:35:42.699 --> 00:35:46.280
Yes. And that then leads to oxidative stress in your body.
690
00:35:46.340 --> 00:35:46.860
Well, maybe.
691
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:49.380
Nothing to do with the electromagnetic waves.
692
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:53.139
Correct. So both of these studies are examples of they're
693
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:54.239
just rubbish. Yeah.
694
00:35:54.650 --> 00:35:55.349
What should we do with them?
695
00:35:56.710 --> 00:35:58.489
Not consider them. Not even.
696
00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:00.130
My mum would say you can wipe.
697
00:35:59.929 --> 00:36:00.610
Your ass with them.
698
00:36:00.630 --> 00:36:02.730
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, maybe you should do that. I mean.
699
00:36:04.179 --> 00:36:06.880
I do like how the big insight is, maybe your
700
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:08.420
job just sucks.
701
00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:11.800
In this case, the power plant workers were shift workers.
702
00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:15.179
And the admin staff at the hospital weren't. There were
703
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:18.460
so many things I could reach to before I go.
704
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:19.519
To EMF waves.
705
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.780
The confounding variables are also just lingering in the air somewhere.
706
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:26.960
Exactly. And meanwhile, we do have.
707
00:36:27.550 --> 00:36:31.769
good quality studies where people have looked at power plant
708
00:36:31.809 --> 00:36:36.110
workers and substation workers and looked for various issues with
709
00:36:36.130 --> 00:36:40.650
their health, including cardiovascular issues, which is also related to
710
00:36:40.690 --> 00:36:43.570
oxidative stress, by the way, and they're really not finding much.
711
00:36:44.630 --> 00:36:48.849
And when you look at studies in people, let's go
712
00:36:48.889 --> 00:36:53.090
to collagen. What we actually find is that if you
713
00:36:53.369 --> 00:36:56.630
use electromagnetic waves in this particular way where you pulse them,
714
00:36:57.530 --> 00:37:02.849
You can actually boost collagen production, not harm it. The
715
00:37:02.889 --> 00:37:04.670
complete opposite to what this theory is.
716
00:37:04.730 --> 00:37:06.550
So here's Ken on that.
717
00:37:07.010 --> 00:37:09.659
You've got to remember, when it comes to collagen, there's
718
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:12.699
actually more studies showing an improvement.
719
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:14.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
720
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:18.079
So there's actually more studies showing a therapeutic effect.
721
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:22.159
So I asked Ken, okay, so knowing what you know,
722
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.389
would you feel comfortable playing football for the 49ers?
723
00:37:25.530 --> 00:37:26.989
I would be ecstatic.
724
00:37:27.380 --> 00:37:31.199
Imagine how much money. I could make way more money
725
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:34.900
than sitting here talking about the adverse effects of life.
726
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:36.280
What about your Achilles?
727
00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:38.179
No, I wouldn't be worried.
728
00:37:38.829 --> 00:37:41.630
I talked to Peter about.
729
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:46.050
it's kind of more broadly that I just didn't think
730
00:37:46.090 --> 00:37:48.610
the evidence was there, that substations were.
731
00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:51.230
I mean, you said you'd wipe your ass with the studies.
732
00:37:51.510 --> 00:37:53.769
It's very gentle of you to now say that you
733
00:37:53.889 --> 00:37:57.150
approached Peter delicately with evidence, but you wiped your ass
734
00:37:57.210 --> 00:37:58.090
with his evidence.
735
00:37:58.210 --> 00:38:01.800
I mean, look, the anus is a.
736
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:06.119
Delicate tissue of the body. So let me play a
737
00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:07.139
bit of Peter's response.
738
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:11.039
I'm not wedded to it being EMF, honestly. I'm not like,
739
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:13.389
I would say that to a certain extent, I've staked
740
00:38:13.429 --> 00:38:17.909
my reputation on the fact that it needs more study,
741
00:38:18.150 --> 00:38:20.929
that it's important to look into it, and that I
742
00:38:21.050 --> 00:38:22.869
am not certain of anything.
743
00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:24.590
So I do want to be serious here for a
744
00:38:24.610 --> 00:38:29.519
second because it's really important. I love that you did this,
745
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:33.820
that you went to him and said, hey, the evidence
746
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:36.559
is lacking, and you are the guy that we are
747
00:38:36.619 --> 00:38:40.929
all citing here, so how do you— reconcile this yes
748
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:44.469
and his answer is we need more study and I
749
00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:49.449
suppose like it raises the follow-up question of like uh
750
00:38:50.050 --> 00:38:52.250
what about the thing he was caring about the most
751
00:38:52.329 --> 00:38:55.250
this whole time the thing that he wanted us all
752
00:38:55.329 --> 00:38:57.230
to study and care about which is the whole you
753
00:38:57.269 --> 00:39:01.030
know we might be getting cancer from this stuff how
754
00:39:01.050 --> 00:39:02.320
about that part of it.
755
00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:07.880
Here is where we actually do have good quality studies
756
00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:11.000
and And it's not just garbage.
757
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.840
And maybe we take a break? Is this halftime?
758
00:39:16.300 --> 00:39:33.679
You're learning how football works so quickly. So he left
759
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.099
us with a hell of a cliffhanger. Are we all
760
00:39:36.139 --> 00:39:40.380
getting cancer? I believe was the gist of what I
761
00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:44.550
was left wondering about what these electromagnetic waves are actually
762
00:39:44.610 --> 00:39:45.280
doing to us.
763
00:39:46.070 --> 00:39:49.070
So what should we know?
764
00:39:49.949 --> 00:39:52.530
So all over the internet right now is this claim
765
00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:56.510
that the World Health Organization has classified these electromagnetic waves
766
00:39:56.650 --> 00:39:59.150
as possibly carcinogenic.
767
00:40:00.139 --> 00:40:01.119
And this is true.
768
00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:05.860
So over 20 years ago, the International Agency for Research
769
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:08.380
on Cancer, which is part of the World Health Organization,
770
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:14.690
did classify these waves as possibly carcinogenic, and they never
771
00:40:14.769 --> 00:40:15.690
reclassified them.
772
00:40:16.210 --> 00:40:18.949
So in fact, we should be worried about this.
773
00:40:19.369 --> 00:40:21.230
Let me just explain everything because I really don't want
774
00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:26.269
people to be freaked out. So This all started in
775
00:40:26.269 --> 00:40:29.949
1979 when a study came out showing that kids in
776
00:40:30.010 --> 00:40:35.159
Colorado who had died from childhood cancer, especially leukemia, were
777
00:40:35.179 --> 00:40:38.039
more likely to have lived near power lines and substations
778
00:40:38.420 --> 00:40:42.000
compared to other kids. But since then, since this time, 1979,
779
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:46.659
a long time ago, scientists took this very seriously and
780
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.730
started researching it over and over again all around the world.
781
00:40:52.349 --> 00:40:56.500
And curiously, The link, it does keep popping up.
782
00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:01.400
And not all studies find it, it's important to say,
783
00:41:01.420 --> 00:41:04.030
and it's not a strong link.
784
00:41:04.690 --> 00:41:08.030
So it's not like everyone living near a power line
785
00:41:08.530 --> 00:41:10.630
is going to get leukemia. Far, far from it.
786
00:41:10.690 --> 00:41:15.760
So some research suggests that power lines and substations could
787
00:41:16.219 --> 00:41:22.880
maybe explain 1% to 4% of childhood leukemias out there.
788
00:41:24.650 --> 00:41:27.219
Another way to think about that number is a German
789
00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:30.460
researcher did this rough estimate saying that in a country
790
00:41:30.579 --> 00:41:32.360
like Germany, which has.
791
00:41:32.059 --> 00:41:34.340
13 million children at the.
792
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.699
Time of this assessment, and it said out of those
793
00:41:37.699 --> 00:41:43.860
13 million children, maybe six cases of childhood leukemia might
794
00:41:43.940 --> 00:41:46.079
be attributed to electromagnetic fields.
795
00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:49.969
You have put a podcast host in a tricky position
796
00:41:50.050 --> 00:41:54.480
now because one child... Of course, suffering from this is
797
00:41:54.500 --> 00:41:56.989
way too many. That's my political position. I want that
798
00:41:57.150 --> 00:41:58.349
on the record, Your Honor.
799
00:41:58.650 --> 00:41:58.989
Yes.
800
00:41:59.730 --> 00:42:02.199
But at the same time, I'm doing the math of
801
00:42:02.420 --> 00:42:07.519
six in 13 million, and that is a small number.
802
00:42:08.150 --> 00:42:12.980
Researchers don't see a connection between electromagnetic fields and any
803
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:17.340
other type of cancer, by the way. Not even adult leukemia.
804
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:20.559
They have looked and they cannot find a link here.
805
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:21.380
Right.
806
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:24.719
But let's go back to the 49ers.
807
00:42:24.739 --> 00:42:29.630
So I think one of my favorite kinds of, let's
808
00:42:29.650 --> 00:42:33.329
call it a conspiracy theory online, is where you have
809
00:42:33.369 --> 00:42:37.510
a little bit of truth... And then a whole lot
810
00:42:37.530 --> 00:42:38.130
of not truth.
811
00:42:39.190 --> 00:42:45.210
So we've got a seed of doubt here. But now
812
00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:47.730
it's time for our touchdown.
813
00:42:47.750 --> 00:42:51.550
That was so … It's painful.
814
00:42:51.610 --> 00:42:52.349
So smooth.
815
00:42:52.570 --> 00:42:54.230
So thanks. So smooth.
816
00:42:54.489 --> 00:42:55.090
That's like what?
817
00:42:55.289 --> 00:42:56.550
So, all right.
818
00:42:57.530 --> 00:43:01.039
You know how one reason that this caught the internet's
819
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:06.030
attention is is because of the timing of the substation
820
00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:12.449
getting an upgrade with when the 49ers injuries start ratcheting up, right?
821
00:43:12.610 --> 00:43:15.219
Around 2014.
822
00:43:15.219 --> 00:43:18.260
As we know, there were renovations done on this substation
823
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:21.199
in 2014. It's officially called the Mission substation.
824
00:43:21.570 --> 00:43:24.250
Right, no, 2014 is the year that we've circled as, like,
825
00:43:24.309 --> 00:43:25.570
the turning point in all of this.
826
00:43:25.590 --> 00:43:26.849
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
827
00:43:26.889 --> 00:43:30.380
The timing is very, very important because if the substation
828
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:35.699
didn't get an upgrade in 2014, then it really doesn't
829
00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:38.639
make sense why it could have ticked off these injuries.
830
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:39.139
Right.
831
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:45.599
So, like I said, we fact-check everything. And so, senior
832
00:43:45.619 --> 00:43:50.280
producer of Science vs. Rose Remler was looking into... did
833
00:43:50.460 --> 00:43:53.719
the substation get an upgrade in 2014, as has been
834
00:43:53.780 --> 00:43:55.460
reported ad nauseum.
835
00:43:56.530 --> 00:43:59.789
And this took Rose on one hell of an adventure.
836
00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:02.429
Come on down, Rose.
837
00:44:02.469 --> 00:44:02.570
Hello.
838
00:44:03.130 --> 00:44:04.469
Hi, Pablo.
839
00:44:04.670 --> 00:44:05.469
Hello.
840
00:44:06.590 --> 00:44:10.610
I do like how this is a truly global operation
841
00:44:10.659 --> 00:44:11.559
you guys have running.
842
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:12.199
Oh, yeah.
843
00:44:12.219 --> 00:44:14.820
With Wendy in Australia, Rose is now sitting next to me.
844
00:44:17.019 --> 00:44:18.519
What was your adventure?
845
00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:18.900
All right.
846
00:44:19.269 --> 00:44:22.530
So widely reported that the substation was expanded in 2014.
847
00:44:22.530 --> 00:44:25.480
Yes. I first Googled that, right?
848
00:44:25.539 --> 00:44:30.980
I came across this podcast saying exactly this. They called
849
00:44:31.179 --> 00:44:34.420
out the website for a contracting service who built a
850
00:44:34.539 --> 00:44:40.000
substation in Santa Clara where the 49ers play in 2014.
851
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:44.050
The Mission substation and 60KV underground extension was the largest
852
00:44:44.530 --> 00:44:47.369
substation undertaken by Silicon Valley power.
853
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:51.679
And I read that note about what they did when
854
00:44:51.699 --> 00:44:54.420
they built the substation. And they said that they put
855
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.940
in some of the equipment running under California's Great America.
856
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:01.840
Was installed along the maintenance road of California's Great America Park,
857
00:45:02.260 --> 00:45:04.360
which had to remain open during construction.
858
00:45:05.139 --> 00:45:07.719
So California's Great America is the amusement park.
859
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.719
It's an amusement park. I had my senior ditch day there.
860
00:45:10.739 --> 00:45:12.280
I'm from the Bay Area, but that's neither here nor there.
861
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:12.369
But.
862
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.340
It's not really that close to Levi's Stadium.
863
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:16.719
Or the practice field.
864
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.500
No, I've never enjoyed the Panda Express there on a
865
00:45:19.539 --> 00:45:22.480
senior ditch day. But it does seem that Google Maps
866
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:25.559
is making very clear, not close.
867
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:27.480
No, so I was like, well, then why would the
868
00:45:27.500 --> 00:45:30.090
lines go that far south to the substation that's right
869
00:45:30.130 --> 00:45:35.690
next door? Then I found a presentation by Silicon Valley Power.
870
00:45:35.769 --> 00:45:39.349
That's the utility that owns the substation. And it has
871
00:45:39.409 --> 00:45:43.239
a map of all the different substations. And the substation
872
00:45:43.260 --> 00:45:45.079
in question that was expanded.
873
00:45:45.099 --> 00:45:46.110
Did you make this graphic?
874
00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:46.570
No, no.
875
00:45:46.769 --> 00:45:48.929
I got this from the PowerPoint presentation.
876
00:45:48.949 --> 00:45:51.789
You look so disgusted by this graphic.
877
00:45:52.550 --> 00:45:54.650
Look, they're not the Silicon Valley graphic design.
878
00:45:54.670 --> 00:45:57.139
I was going to say, this is a bunch of triangles.
879
00:45:57.260 --> 00:45:59.420
It looks like they just, this is like made in
880
00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:00.440
like Microsoft Word.
881
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:02.179
Yeah, but I was so happy to find this because
882
00:46:02.219 --> 00:46:04.940
it actually names where all the substations are because there's
883
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.760
substations everywhere, right? So there's the one right next to
884
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.860
Levi's Stadium. It clearly says it's called the NRS. Mostly
885
00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:14.019
it's called the Northern Receiving Station. But the one that
886
00:46:14.059 --> 00:46:15.869
we just read this whole thing about like, oh, it
887
00:46:15.889 --> 00:46:18.309
was this big expansion, da, da, da, the Mission substation.
888
00:46:18.980 --> 00:46:19.860
It's all the way over there.
889
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:25.480
So people were saying a substation upgraded in 2014, but
890
00:46:25.539 --> 00:46:27.179
it is a different substation.
891
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:28.280
It's a different substation.
892
00:46:28.809 --> 00:46:31.710
This admittedly terribly made graphic does make clear that the
893
00:46:31.750 --> 00:46:35.489
thing that apparently has expanded, which is called Mission Substation,
894
00:46:36.230 --> 00:46:39.110
is off in the bottom left-hand corner and not at
895
00:46:39.269 --> 00:46:43.190
all the substation or either of the substations near Levi's Stadium.
896
00:46:43.530 --> 00:46:44.269
It's not the same one.
897
00:46:44.289 --> 00:46:45.269
How far away is that?
898
00:46:45.309 --> 00:46:48.159
It's like a mile away, which is really far in
899
00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:51.679
the world of electromagnetic radiation because that field drops off
900
00:46:51.739 --> 00:46:55.320
extremely quickly with distance. The final thing I can tell you,
901
00:46:55.340 --> 00:46:58.239
I did find, and Peter helped me with this.
902
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:00.380
And by the way, Peter has been very gracious and like,
903
00:47:01.099 --> 00:47:03.280
you know, also working with this. And like, he's like,
904
00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:04.750
oh yeah, I guess I did get that wrong because
905
00:47:04.789 --> 00:47:05.590
he wrote some of this stuff.
906
00:47:05.750 --> 00:47:08.510
That's really encouraging that Peter is like working with the
907
00:47:08.550 --> 00:47:11.590
fact checkers to make sure that like, yeah, I should
908
00:47:11.630 --> 00:47:13.110
admit that I didn't get this right.
909
00:47:13.539 --> 00:47:15.159
And he actually found this graph.
910
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:18.320
It's from a slide presentation about data center use in
911
00:47:18.340 --> 00:47:22.880
Silicon Valley from Silicon Valley Power that shows basically the growth.
912
00:47:22.699 --> 00:47:24.869
Of the use of power and electricity in the area.
913
00:47:24.889 --> 00:47:26.150
And you can see it's going up.
914
00:47:27.289 --> 00:47:30.230
But what I would look for to explain some change
915
00:47:30.269 --> 00:47:33.550
that happened in 2014, I would look for some kind
916
00:47:33.590 --> 00:47:35.469
of inflection point in this graph.
917
00:47:35.510 --> 00:47:39.239
And I don't see that. So I think from all
918
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:40.920
of this adventure.
919
00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:45.659
We've learned that all of this reporting about the substation expanding,
920
00:47:45.699 --> 00:47:47.500
they were talking about the wrong substation.
921
00:47:47.539 --> 00:47:49.139
It's not the one near the 49ers.
922
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:55.010
And we do not have a clear moment where power
923
00:47:55.389 --> 00:47:58.789
cranks up at the substation near the 49ers practice area.
924
00:47:58.929 --> 00:47:59.349
Bam!
925
00:48:00.030 --> 00:48:05.409
Injuries start plaguing the 49ers. We do not have that.
926
00:48:06.340 --> 00:48:11.519
And as we kept looking into the lore around this story...
927
00:48:11.780 --> 00:48:16.030
You know, it wasn't the Achilles tendons that were rupturing.
928
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:19.460
It was the whole story here.
929
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.559
It's time to blow the whistle. And it's time for
930
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:39.840
you to meet Dr. Zachary Binning. He's an assistant professor
931
00:48:39.889 --> 00:48:43.750
of epidemiology and data science at Emory University in Atlanta.
932
00:48:44.409 --> 00:48:47.769
And he has been looking into the injuries of the 49ers.
933
00:48:48.630 --> 00:48:50.130
Are you a 49ers fan?
934
00:48:50.150 --> 00:48:53.349
I am not. I am a Miami Dolphins fan.
935
00:48:53.389 --> 00:48:54.030
God help me.
936
00:48:54.250 --> 00:48:57.369
So it's been a dry couple of decades, especially relative
937
00:48:57.389 --> 00:48:57.969
to the Niners.
938
00:48:58.590 --> 00:49:01.800
So Zach doesn't have pigskin in this game. He doesn't
939
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:04.760
hold a 40-year grudge from when the Dolphins met the
940
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:08.260
49ers in the Super Bowl in 1985. Don't say I
941
00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:11.199
didn't try to care about NFL, Pablo.
942
00:49:11.469 --> 00:49:12.710
Thank you for doing research.
943
00:49:13.250 --> 00:49:14.710
There's so many more things to be depressed about if
944
00:49:14.730 --> 00:49:17.190
you're a Dolphins fan than losing to the Niners in 85.
945
00:49:17.190 --> 00:49:17.670
Right.
946
00:49:18.630 --> 00:49:19.969
So Zach is the curator.
947
00:49:20.590 --> 00:49:23.869
Of FTN Fantasy's NFL Injury Database.
948
00:49:23.949 --> 00:49:25.309
It's this huge spreadsheet.
949
00:49:25.750 --> 00:49:30.469
It's been tracking injuries in football stretching back to 2007. Basically,
950
00:49:30.550 --> 00:49:33.630
most football injuries have to get publicly reported, which is
951
00:49:33.670 --> 00:49:35.719
important for betting and fantasy football.
952
00:49:35.860 --> 00:49:36.090
Yes.
953
00:49:36.449 --> 00:49:39.500
And so Zach and his team take those public reports
954
00:49:39.739 --> 00:49:43.619
and then pop them into a spreadsheet, including who got injured,
955
00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:48.119
their position, the kind of injury, yada, yada, yada. And
956
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:52.179
so I just asked him, over the years, have the
957
00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:56.139
49ers even had more injuries than other teams?
958
00:49:57.179 --> 00:50:00.389
So, if you're just talking about the raw number of injuries,
959
00:50:00.449 --> 00:50:04.889
like the number of players getting hurt, they actually don't.
960
00:50:05.530 --> 00:50:07.230
They're a little bit above average.
961
00:50:07.510 --> 00:50:07.630
Oh!
962
00:50:08.150 --> 00:50:11.550
But they actually don't have the most players, the most
963
00:50:11.769 --> 00:50:12.989
injuries happening.
964
00:50:13.730 --> 00:50:14.889
I just like how we're now.
965
00:50:15.650 --> 00:50:18.650
We're now realizing that everything about this story is a
966
00:50:18.690 --> 00:50:20.269
paper that needs to be regraded.
967
00:50:20.289 --> 00:50:21.929
It is a mess.
968
00:50:22.309 --> 00:50:22.889
It's bad.
969
00:50:22.909 --> 00:50:27.300
And over the past decade, if you are looking at
970
00:50:27.460 --> 00:50:33.119
games lost due to all injuries, Zach said the Giants
971
00:50:33.179 --> 00:50:33.760
lead the way.
972
00:50:34.300 --> 00:50:35.920
San Francisco is second.
973
00:50:36.500 --> 00:50:38.429
Yeah, I got to say, like, as a New Yorker,
974
00:50:39.610 --> 00:50:43.389
this feels like a missed opportunity for the Giants to
975
00:50:43.650 --> 00:50:45.170
also be deeply aggrieved.
976
00:50:45.670 --> 00:50:48.889
Well, I mean, Zach said there's an obvious reason why
977
00:50:49.070 --> 00:50:51.030
no one seems to be crying about the Giants.
978
00:50:51.849 --> 00:50:54.789
Frankly, they've also been a worse team over that time period.
979
00:50:55.210 --> 00:51:00.250
So I think fans don't feel as much pain when
980
00:51:00.289 --> 00:51:03.300
the players on a team that's already kind of struggling
981
00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:06.280
get hurt as they do when the Niners, who have
982
00:51:06.420 --> 00:51:09.900
competed for and in Super Bowls in the last decade,
983
00:51:10.300 --> 00:51:11.159
suffer these injuries.
984
00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:15.360
So how wrong is the data on the Niners then? Like,
985
00:51:15.389 --> 00:51:18.179
how do you even arrive at that mistaken conclusion?
986
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:23.440
I mean, I can hear fans saying, what is she
987
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:26.940
talking about? Like, we know this. We know the 49ers
988
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.360
are the worst. I've seen stats saying that. And so
989
00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:31.119
we looked around as well.
990
00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:31.570
Yeah.
991
00:51:31.780 --> 00:51:35.909
And we contacted Aaron Schatz, who's the chief analytics officer
992
00:51:36.110 --> 00:51:41.710
at FTN Fantasy. And he said that when you change
993
00:51:41.750 --> 00:51:43.289
the way you analyze the stats.
994
00:51:43.750 --> 00:51:43.949
and.
995
00:51:43.909 --> 00:51:48.010
You adjust them so you just focus on the starting players,
996
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:51.699
important players. You also consider if maybe a player is
997
00:51:52.019 --> 00:51:55.619
injured and they're going to be on the field, but
998
00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:57.139
they're not going to be playing at their best. If
999
00:51:57.179 --> 00:51:59.500
you start sort of adjusting for that sort of stuff,
1000
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:05.010
then the 49ers do look the worst over the last decade. But,
1001
00:52:05.429 --> 00:52:08.670
and this is critical, it's not by a lot.
1002
00:52:08.690 --> 00:52:16.659
MUSIC I should acknowledge, however, that it is pretty funny
1003
00:52:16.860 --> 00:52:20.130
and admittedly quite suspicious that the 49ers, according to The
1004
00:52:20.170 --> 00:52:24.730
Athletic earlier this year, are, quote, exploring a possible nearby
1005
00:52:24.789 --> 00:52:28.909
relocation for their now infamous practice facility. Although the given
1006
00:52:28.949 --> 00:52:31.510
reason there is that the Niners are running out of
1007
00:52:31.610 --> 00:52:35.360
space at their current address, as opposed to running out
1008
00:52:35.380 --> 00:52:38.639
of patience for memes about how the substation is looming
1009
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:42.349
over the practice field like the eye of Sauron. which
1010
00:52:42.590 --> 00:52:46.489
may not be great for attracting free agents. But in
1011
00:52:46.550 --> 00:52:51.079
fairness to the substation, I suppose, that stat Aaron Schatz
1012
00:52:51.099 --> 00:52:54.639
was just referring to, adjusted games lost, which gives more
1013
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:59.119
weight to losing starters due to injury, that statistic itself
1014
00:52:59.300 --> 00:53:04.829
opens the door to other confounding variables. Variables like, you know,
1015
00:53:05.170 --> 00:53:09.610
playing time and other undeniably human decisions that put human
1016
00:53:09.670 --> 00:53:11.010
ligaments in jeopardy.
1017
00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:20.440
There could be other, much cleaner explanations, like, I don't know, culture, coach.
1018
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:21.980
Or both.
1019
00:53:23.260 --> 00:53:26.880
For instance, how many practices in a row 49ers head
1020
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:31.070
coach Kyle Shanahan was mandating during training camp in 2025?
1021
00:53:31.059 --> 00:53:34.300
The way to build your body to make it through
1022
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.760
a year is building that callus. I really believe in
1023
00:53:37.780 --> 00:53:40.159
three practices in a row as we go through camp.
1024
00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:42.840
I can't always do it because of scheduling and stuff,
1025
00:53:42.889 --> 00:53:44.780
but that's what our goal is. The more we can
1026
00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:47.730
practice three days in a row and fight through soreness
1027
00:53:47.750 --> 00:53:51.630
and stuff... But this is yet another human decision that
1028
00:53:51.690 --> 00:53:55.030
Kyle Shanahan now says is becoming a bit more relaxed
1029
00:53:55.889 --> 00:53:59.710
because the 49ers are no longer practicing three days in
1030
00:53:59.769 --> 00:54:00.090
a row.
1031
00:54:00.849 --> 00:54:03.869
Kyle Shanahan is changing his mind. He's now limiting it
1032
00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:04.530
to two.
1033
00:54:06.090 --> 00:54:09.019
Now, It is worth noting, of course, that the most
1034
00:54:09.179 --> 00:54:15.360
narratively inconvenient variable of all in this story is fundamentally
1035
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:17.219
sheer randomness.
1036
00:54:18.019 --> 00:54:21.440
As Shanahan himself is aware at this point, as.
1037
00:54:21.420 --> 00:54:24.480
Well as anybody, given that he survived a now infamous
1038
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:28.659
car accident just last month. And while that accident in
1039
00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:32.559
Palo Alto triggered even more jokes about the substation's power,
1040
00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:39.219
it also raised lingering questions about human error, and how
1041
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:42.539
lucky Kyle Shanahan is to have survived.
1042
00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:47.409
I do think at the backdrop of all of this
1043
00:54:48.369 --> 00:54:50.389
is the randomness of life.
1044
00:54:50.969 --> 00:54:54.190
That is unsatisfying, Randy.
1045
00:54:54.210 --> 00:54:57.769
I find it super satisfying because I think part of
1046
00:54:57.789 --> 00:55:01.909
the reason that theories like the substation thrive is because
1047
00:55:01.969 --> 00:55:08.320
it gives you a singular thing to blame. And it
1048
00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:12.639
gives you comfort and it gives us something to focus on.
1049
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:14.699
But the truth is that.
1050
00:55:14.699 --> 00:55:19.579
Sometimes just happens and injuries just happen. And, you know,
1051
00:55:19.619 --> 00:55:21.980
you look at the stats, the 32 teams, 16 of them,
1052
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:25.639
are going to be at the bottom half.
1053
00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:27.699
That's just stats, right?
1054
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:33.760
There is this concept, Pablo, in psychology called the deep story.
1055
00:55:34.179 --> 00:55:38.070
And it's basically the story that everyone believes, this emotional
1056
00:55:38.130 --> 00:55:41.369
story that everyone's pulled into, whether it's true or not.
1057
00:55:41.849 --> 00:55:44.510
And so I think the deep story here is that
1058
00:55:44.530 --> 00:55:48.469
the 49ers are plagued year after year after year with.
1059
00:55:48.469 --> 00:55:52.429
Crazy amounts of injuries. When really, when you look at
1060
00:55:52.469 --> 00:55:54.989
the stats... They're not doing great.
1061
00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:59.679
I'm not out here saying that they're the best in
1062
00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:00.980
the league, healthiest in the league.
1063
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:01.900
Absolutely not.
1064
00:56:02.780 --> 00:56:05.440
But they are not doing crazy bad, crazy enough that
1065
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:08.760
we need to reach for substations to explain what's going on.
1066
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:13.659
You are, as a non-NFL expert, getting to explain the
1067
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:16.869
NFL in ways that might be cutting to the core
1068
00:56:16.969 --> 00:56:21.010
of the psychology of the people who love America's foremost
1069
00:56:21.070 --> 00:56:21.909
cultural institution.
1070
00:56:21.969 --> 00:56:23.650
I'm doing my best.
1071
00:56:24.230 --> 00:56:31.559
So I think, bottom line, we could safely say the substation, the.
1072
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:34.119
Evidence just isn't there that that is.
1073
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:36.980
To blame for the injuries the 49ers have had.
1074
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:42.550
This feels comprehensive in a way that a blowout loss
1075
00:56:42.829 --> 00:56:44.030
tends to feel.
1076
00:56:45.230 --> 00:56:48.730
In this very American game. And also, I kind of
1077
00:56:48.750 --> 00:56:49.230
feel dizzy.
1078
00:56:49.869 --> 00:56:50.010
So.
1079
00:56:50.659 --> 00:56:51.960
The full NFL experience.
1080
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.539
Yeah, we've done our job. We've hit you over the
1081
00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:55.360
head with the facts.
1082
00:57:04.219 --> 00:57:08.260
This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production.
1083
00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:11.039
And I'll talk to you next time.
1084
00:57:14.780 --> 00:57:16.699
I hope you liked this episode that we made with
1085
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:20.070
the team at Pablo Torre Finds Out. If you do,
1086
00:57:20.230 --> 00:57:23.769
share it with someone who's into the NFL, into science,
1087
00:57:23.989 --> 00:57:27.739
into Taylor Swift, conspiracy theories about EMF waves.
1088
00:57:28.739 --> 00:57:29.360
Let people know.
1089
00:57:29.380 --> 00:57:31.800
And I really do want to hear what you thought
1090
00:57:31.900 --> 00:57:34.639
about this episode. So let us know. You can find
1091
00:57:34.699 --> 00:57:38.480
us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. All the links are in
1092
00:57:38.500 --> 00:57:39.039
the show notes.