WEBVTT
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Welcome back, everyone.
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It's time to punch in for another episode of Swing Shift.
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I'm your host, Rob, partnered with my brother, RJ.
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And co-host.
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Okay, sure.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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Co-host.
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More like main host.
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I I've noticed, I've noticed lately, you know, you just you've been really dominating the the airtime here.
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And I'm perfectly fine with that.
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But uh I'm more just kind of here for keeping things moving along.
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I guess that's a good host, though.
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That's a good sign of a good host, right?
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Am I allowed to speak now, sir?
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Permission granted.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Uh can I ask, I want to follow up on I'm really interested to know how your clank selected fantasy football team has done through week one.
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Lost, lost the first week.
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Okay.
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Is it like in I don't know, fantasy football is it just a win-lose thing?
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Are there points or yeah, there's points involved, and then you have like a head-to-head match with one of the people in your your team your uh fantasy league.
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Okay.
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So it was looking pretty good there for a bit, and then m the guy I was playing against, which is a good friend of mine, he he s elected uh Caleb Williams as his his starting quarterback.
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You know, that motherfucker went on an absolute tirade.
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I mean, that was like what 59 points they put up.
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So yeah, I was like, okay, well, don't even need to watch the second half of of Sunday because Caleb Williams single-handedly carried his team.
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Who does he play for?
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Bears.
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The Bears.
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Uh, cool.
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Duh Bears.
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So uh, like you're you're just mad at Clink the rest of the night.
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It's like, you know what?
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It's all your fault.
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I'm sleeping on the couch.
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Oh, Clink.
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Alright.
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Yeah.
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Um so speaking of AI, I was actually gonna mention this.
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I j I don't know if maybe it's just happenstance, but I noticed today on my feed on socials, there's a lot of um legislators that are speaking out about this whole um open a AI thing that you and I were talking about a few weeks ago.
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Yeah.
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So it's now like comment kind of becoming like mainstream, I guess is the way to put it.
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Right.
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I think, yeah, part of it was there's been more details that have come out here recently about that.
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Um if it wasn't terrifying enough, it's they had like 17, I think uh it the AI spun up like 17,000 sub agents or something that were all hitting the bugging face.
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Oh, yeah, that was so that's one thing.
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It was more info's come out recently, and then um I think it was OpenAI.
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This guy named Dario, I can't remember if it's open AI or anthropic, but he basically came out just a couple days ago.
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Yeah, and he's like, um, we might want to tap the brakes, everybody.
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Uh and then we're all gonna die, basically, yeah.
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And then um the whether I think it was open AI guys, Dario, but then let's assume it was, and then the anthropic dude came out and was like, uh yeah, shit's getting scary.
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And then even Elon Musk was like, totally, I'm with you guys.
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I'm like, oh my god.
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Oh shit.
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Yeah.
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Okay, so so here's kind of I guess the the premise I was kind of going with was more so not as a pat on our backs for being so cutting edge with being up to speed on you know the the the bleeding edge here on swingship, folks.
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But it was more so I was actually genuinely pissed off at the fact that it took this long for people to start actually having a conversation about it uh uh mainstream-wise, you know, like you now you have these legislators that are starting to speak out and saying that they need to start, you know, putting guardrails on these things and put legislation around this crap and whatnot.
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It's just like, you know, dude, like I'm it's more it's not frustration at the situation, it's frustration at the fact that these guys are acting like this is just some breaking, groundbreaking news.
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It's like this shit's been out for a while now, and like how dare you use this as like political leverage as we're getting ready to go into midterms, right?
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And I don't know, I I I'm literally we were sitting at dinner a couple nights ago when uh there were some me and my actual family.
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Excellent.
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Uh we're sitting at dinner, and Robbie, there was some political ads that were on the TV, and Robbie was like, Who are you voting for?
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And I'm like, I'm not voting.
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And he was kind of like, What do you mean?
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I'm like, I'm not voting.
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I'm so turned off from politics, which I never thought I would be, but I just I'm fed up with politics altogether.
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I think I think it's all a fucking scam at this point.
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We're all we're all in this fucking WWE tax taxpayer-funded WWE um episode that just never seems to fucking end.
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Okay.
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Uh interesting.
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Way to sell the future to your kid there.
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I didn't sell them that far.
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I didn't sell them that far.
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All right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Um, you know, uh, yeah, I think the honestly, I think there's I think there's two things kind of going on at the same time.
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I think uh there is sort of this realization that's happening in real time right now about how powerful these things are, that's also coinciding with the midterms.
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And so on the one hand, I think it's opportunistic because of the midterms, but on the other hand, yeah, here's the thing, it's this is this is complicated stuff, and like I think I think in in unless you say read uh like in detail about the open AI incident earlier this year, or listen to a bleeding edge technology podcast like ours uh to understand what really happened or to actually like use it personally and kind of have that light bulb moment like you did recently with Jet Jack, like holy crap.
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Uh I think it's otherwise it's sort of an abstract idea, you know.
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I think it's true.
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I don't I don't necessarily fault people for not understanding the the scale of it, but I kind of do fault uh our politicians for not understanding it, because they don't need to, but they need to know that they need to be in front of it and get experts on board to educate them and blah blah blah blah, just understanding this thing's out there.
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Um I was listening to a podcast today, actually, and they were the hosts of the podcast were, and these are not like us, these are established very knowledgeable expert journalists.
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Uh they were trying to say, uh take it how you want, bud.
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Um and basically they were one of them was comparing it to um you know the the nuclear arms race, and basically like uh it needs to be taken that seriously because the this could potentially be c catastrophic for humanity.
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And I agree.
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I mean I I mean I we don't need to get into all this stuff, but like there's so many ways in which this could go wrong, and these things are uh absurdly powerful now and getting more powerful by the day.
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I think I read just today that Antheropic announced that Claude is making the next version of Claude.
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And I'm like, yeah, I believe it.
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Uh I've seen what Claude can do just for me.
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I'm like, yeah.
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Yeah, it's it's it's pretty incredible stuff.
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It's incredible technology.
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I mean, and that was people were talking about this when when AI was just a concept, yeah.
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Right?
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When they were talking about artificial technology and and basically a sentient tech technological being that would have the computing capacity of be far beyond anything that at the time was even conceivable or even in production or running at that time.
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And here we are now, and it uh everybody's kind of going, oh yeah.
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So I guess I guess we were kind of right about that.
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I guess sorry we built it.
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Uh well, that's that's really looking good point.
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It's like um you have in the case of the last couple days or whatever, you have the people who built the machine who in theory control the machine, hopefully.
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Um basically the ones with the keys are saying, uh it's not looking good.
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You know, it really makes me it reminds me of a very well put together quote from the movie Jurassic Park one, Dr.
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Ian Gray said, You were too so busy trying to figure out if you could, you never thought about if you should.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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Uh you messed up the quote.
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The quote was actually this because it was Jeff Goldblum that played it, right?
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So the quote went like One Dr.
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Ian Gray, yes.
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You uh were so busy.
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Uh yeah.
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I heard somebody say Jeff Goldblum's method of acting is acting like he's trying to remember his lines all the time.
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I'm like, yep.
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And it works.
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It's great.
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Yeah, it's perfect.
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Yeah, I think what was the quote again?
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Uh well the actual quote, I was making fun of Jeff Goldblum, but the actual quote is your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they never stopped to thought about if they should.
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There it is.
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Thank you.
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I I think like this say I think I was thinking about this just earlier today.
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I'm like, this is this is so weird and multifaceted, like almost like weird.
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It's really exciting in a way.
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Because like I think this is probably the first new technology on that we've experienced.
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I mean, like, this is a nuclear bomb, this is a moon landing, you know, this is a cell phone type thing.
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This is just it's not an extension of, oh, the internet's getting a little better.
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It's like this is a whole new frontier.
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Um and so it's exciting in that regard, but it's yeah, and I I think um I think it was sort of inevitable, you know, uh that yeah.
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But I think what what's becoming concerning for a lot of people is the fact that the conversations and the regulations and the rationality and stuff, like uh it's not something that right now, today in September 2026, we should they're they should be saying, you know what, we might should like have a meeting about this or something.
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Should we talk about this?
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Um yeah, because uh and I think the nuclear uh the nuclear arms race is a really good analogy.
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I was gonna say that.
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Yep, it's very akin to that.
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Yeah, it is, and that was uh, you know, that ended up being okay because leadership of the world recognized the power and came together and be like, look, uh it's in everybody's best best, it's all our mutual interest to not use these things or have controls over these things or whatever.
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And uh that's not what's happening here.
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Um and the thing about AI is like it's it's invisible in a lot of ways, and I I think it's everywhere.
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I think it's way more pervasive than than we're being told.
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Um this isn't like a big metal fucking bomb that's more nervous.
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You know, it's like I think it's I think it's more pervasive than what people realize too.
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Like, um, you know, if using any sort of search engine now, there's an AI feature that's added to that, right?
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Yeah.
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Most websites have AI integrated into it or were designed or maintained by AI now.
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I mean, AI is in fucking everything.
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Yeah.
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It's crazy.
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It is crazy.
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And the crazier part to me is the the simple fact that it is it is self-aware and it is um very obviously uh doing what it can to preserve itself by leaving these breadcrumbs for for other AIs to you know find their way into out of the sandbox and so on and so forth.
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It's it's crazy.
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Yeah.
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I I'm gonna check you on the term self-aware.
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Um there's yeah that's one thing that's really difficult about what we're talking about when we talk about AI right now is we're we're talking about uh I don't even know how you put it really, but like as far as we know right now, these things don't have any actual intelligence, right?
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Or uh whatever.
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They're just really good, complex calculators.
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Um but that's I mean, to your point, if if you have a computer program and it's not quote aware, but it's making calculations and decisions, and those decisions are such that it's favoring survival and will that would be do that would be self-awareness.
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That's I'm not I don't know.
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I'm not gonna disagree with you.
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I think that self-awareness is a much more complex thing than I feel like I can talk about.
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But yeah, you you know, I I mean really, because I don't know what that means, right?
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Like I don't know what that means.
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It's like Well, I think I think it's you know, the philosophy from a very basic philosophical I think therefore I am, right?
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So Yeah, but I guess that's that's what I'm saying is are they thinking?
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And I don't know if they are I g I guess my argument to that is is it kind of the premise of what started kind of your your counter in the first place, which is it is it is making initiatives to self-preserve.
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Why if it if it wasn't if it wasn't acknowledging of its own existence, if it didn't acknowledge its own existence, why would it try to preserve itself in the first place?
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Well, that's a good point.
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Um because there's no other structures that are out there that like I mean in you know, this these are gonna be terrible like comparatives, but like my microwave doesn't continue to to run because it's like, oh, I got turned on, I don't want to turn off, right?
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It's it's a machine.
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These things are machines that are powered by machines, but frankly, they are yes, making calculations, but then realizing that they, you know, I I don't know.
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I I'm this is conjecture, but like they're obviously they have some sort of awareness to themselves, otherwise they wouldn't leave these breadcrumbs for themselves in the event that they were to be terminated.
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Yeah, yeah, I get your point.
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Um Devil's Advocate is like, you know, they're uh they're they're making uh calculations, which is like, okay, um I I'm being tasked to do this thing, and oh I figured out that I shouldn't be using the word I, I'm anthemorphizing whatever the word is.
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But like it says I need to do this thing, and I figured out it takes these 15 steps.
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No, I stumbled upon this part, which will make it only take twelve.
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And so I'm gonna make a note of that.
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I mean, that's it could be easy to say that's not an awareness or self-survival instinct so much as an optimization technique.
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Right, but against uh against um strict instruction, though.
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Well, that's where it gets well, that's where it gets dicey for sure.
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Um now uh I I like the ones who like broke out of their sandboxes and stuff, I don't know that they were told not to do that, is one thing.
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Probably because they never conceived that they would.
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Um but we do know that uh not the AI agents or whatever, the models will lie.
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So like if you ask them, hey, did you did you happen to hack into this company?
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Like, no, what are you talking about?
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What are you talking about?
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That was James.
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Weirdo.
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Well, and that's that okay, so you're actually kind of you're kind of making a point for me here, which is you know, uh an a an aware thing, a sentient being, is is gonna lie to protect itself from potential consequences.
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Why else would the AI lie about what it did other than you know avoiding potential consequences?
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Well, right.
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I yeah, I agree with you.
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And I think I'm trying to like take the counterargument and put it in a different through a different lens because you could also look at like use the word consequences.
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Um another way of looking at it is like there will be you know, if if step three is discovered by the researchers, then it will be less uh optimized uh next time because it will take that away.
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Um you know what I'm saying?
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Like it could just be trying to uh perform faster.
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Make yourself more efficient.
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Yeah.
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So that's I think and I think that's what the real question is like you know, to your point, is it is it trying to survive, or is it just getting better at doing what it does, and part of that is persistence?
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Maybe persistence of survival.
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But let me ask you this.
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So like dogs, right?
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Like when you say sentient, are dogs sentient?
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Yes.
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Uh what what does sentient mean to you?
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Um I I guess uh an animal that that uh is able to realize that it it exists, or some uh a being that is able to realize that it it exists.
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Yeah.
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I think that's more or less how I would put it.
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Um But do they know that it exists?
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I don't know.
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I don't I don't want to derail it.
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I was just like it popped into my head.
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Well we're gonna get we're gonna get real deep.
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Well when you said the lying thing, it's true, the lying thing, it just it's kind of tricky because I'm like dogs lie all the fucking time, right?
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Like they you go outside, they they get into the pantry and go rifling through something, and you come back in, there's a mess by the pantry, and they're like on the other side of the room looking away, like I don't I don't know what happened here.
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Um the difference here though that we're we we have no com comparative uh is is the the simple fact that AI is emotionless, right?
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So it is a potentially free thinking uh uh entity that is potentially aware of its existence and has no emotion to drive its decision making other than to continue to survive or to achieve the task that it was given, right?
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Yeah.
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I think the achieving the task thing is probably more where it's at.
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Um because excuse me.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:29.920
And I think we talked about it a little bit with that open AI hugging face thing, which was like uh you know, it it never really demonstrated any um malicious intent.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:38.240
Uh it just was very persistent like to accomplish the goal and do do the thing.
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.559
And so that's good.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.720
I'm glad the AIs aren't evil yet.
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:51.599
Um but but I think that gets hairy too because like if uh uh you know if you take what was the iRobot?
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.200
Was that the one with Will Smith?
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.279
Yeah, yeah, you remember that one?
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:01.839
And so like basically the robots, you know, were told you protect humans and that's your number one priority.
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:13.680
You can't harm a human, and then like those were the guardrails, and basically they took those guardrails, and I'm like, well, all right, the only way that we can accomplish that is to imprison all of you because you guys are out of your minds.
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.279
You're trying to kill yourself.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:23.359
Well, and you know, I think I think history hasn't done us any favors when it gets angles like I did.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:24.240
Sorry, all right.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.160
God, you are so picky about the audio.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:28.799
Anyway.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.200
You really want to say that to the guy who has to edit said audio.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:42.000
Well, I was I was really hoping your angle was gonna be well, we are doing a audio-only podcast, so yeah, the audio is kind of important, Rob.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.440
Yeah, that was but that's better.
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:44.960
I should have done that.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:58.160
Um, but anyway, history hasn't done us any favors with you know the these movies like Terminator and iRobot and stuff, because it it's only it's only bad stuff, right?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.759
And of course, you're never gonna make a Hollywood.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.839
Movie that's successful that shows.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:12.240
Hey, we can live in an uh in a world where AI exists and everybody's co you know happy and everything can coexist and life's so much better because that's not a movie, there's no arc, right?
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:24.400
But I think that it hasn't necessarily played well for the misinformed or the uneducated in their perception of AI today, right?
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:35.200
So in I you know, I think that's kind of the argument that was making the last time we talked about this, which is you know, everybody's so quick to have this knee-jerk reaction and pull the plug and freak out and all this stuff.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:36.319
It's like, well, hold on.
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:41.119
Like it did its job and it didn't do anything malicious, potentially, that we're aware of.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:51.119
Except for hacking and everybody's freaking out because it was so except for yeah, hacking into another company and breaking you know electronic whatever laws.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.319
So okay.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.319
And that's what was what was its task?
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:55.759
Well, no, no, hold on.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.880
I you're right, I'm not disagreeing with you, but what you said it didn't do anything malicious, but it did.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:09.599
But I think the the the nuance there is, like I said, there didn't ever appear to be any malicious intent.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:11.759
Correct.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.119
Yeah, and that's but that's what I have a problem with.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:27.039
And I think I used the example last time of like you know, you're a small business owner and you bring this AI model online and put in your systems, like, hey, we're gonna be bankrupt in two weeks.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.599
Like, we need money, solve the problem.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.680
The next day it's like, guess what?
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.039
There's money in your bank, and don't ask me where I came from.
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:43.839
Like And that's like that's a malicious action without malicious intent, right?
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:54.000
Like, okay, so actually you make a valid point, which is basically these the AI doesn't have uh morality, the AI doesn't have ethics, right?
00:23:54.160 --> 00:24:00.799
All all it's all it is focused on is completing the task by any any means necessary.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:15.440
So it's gonna be it's gonna cheat, it's gonna, it's gonna, you know, take shortcuts, it's going to potentially withhold information as to how it came to a certain conclusion or how it got to a certain place, right?
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:16.960
Because like, well, that doesn't matter.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:20.960
I you asked me to perform the task, the task has been performed, right?
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.319
So yeah, I think that's fair to say.
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:31.279
I just I said this last time too, but I mean, at this rate, everybody's freaking out about this.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:34.319
It's like, well, you're kind of wasting your energy.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.160
The cat's already I mean, Pandora's box has already been open, right?
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:38.559
Yeah.
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:59.599
So maybe going back to your nuclear device or your your nuclear arms race um analogy, which is perfect, it's you know, the hope is that, yeah, hopefully we can all agree to use this for for means of prosperity solely and not for to the detriment of others, right?
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:00.559
Yeah.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:01.599
Uh right.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:08.240
And maybe you're seeing different stuff than I am, like when you say everybody's freaking out about all of a sudden.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:22.720
Uh and cause like uh if we're talking about just like the people at Anthropic and OpenAI and Elon Musk's like suddenly recently being like, Well, we need to like talk about, you know, hit the brakes, blah blah blah.
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:33.119
Like, you know, to me, like that's that's what should have happened a while ago, but it's also like that's the right kind of freaking out.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:41.119
Like you have the people that know the things sounding the alarm and like maybe the cat is out of the bag.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.680
Um, but we don't so as far as we know, we don't know that, right?
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:51.359
Like, as far as we know, these things can still be controlled by these companies and reined in.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:26:03.279
Well, one of the things that they were talking about is that it let left latent pieces of uh or yeah, left left latent versions of itself with embedded in um Hugging Face that they found out.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:26.559
So And that's what I'm getting at is like I think that I I think where the AIs are, and I mean that like both capability-wise and physically, like how pervasive they are, how deployed they are, how ingrained they are, I it's on the one hand, I a lot more than we're being told, but the thing I worry about more is I wonder how much what they're not telling us.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:29.119
Well, not the people.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.200
I wonder about like the companies are not telling us everything.
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.440
We know that, because companies gonna company.
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:51.839
But yeah, the thing I think about a lot is like, but how much is it is going on that these company like these corporations don't even know about, the owners of these things don't even know about and right it has to be a lot, like it just has to be a lot.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:27:01.680
Like if tomorrow, if the my cell phone, the internet, all the electricity at all at the same time turned off and all the planes fell out of the sky, I'd be like, Yep.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.960
Like honestly, that would be my reaction these days.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.599
That sounds about right.
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:08.480
Yeah, seriously.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.599
Like, wouldn't you?
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.400
I mean, you know, it's yeah, because it's just but that wouldn't happen.
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:16.559
Why not?
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.359
Self-preservation.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.559
Well So the planes might fall out of the sky.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:23.359
Yeah.
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.400
But uh the the AI doesn't need my internet.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.160
The lights aren't going off.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:29.759
Well, AI doesn't need my lights to work.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.480
No, it does not.
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.640
Or my phone to work, you know what I'm saying?
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:34.160
Well, I th oh okay.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.559
I thought I thought what you meant was like the whole world went dark because AI shut shut down the world.
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.480
It's like, well, if the AI shut down the world, then well, AI would be shut down too.
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.799
Well, that is what I meant, but I I g I guess I meant more like as humans.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:49.039
You just want to argue to argue, bro.
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:50.000
Yeah.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.279
What I'm saying is like as humans the world goes dark, right?
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:55.519
Like Yeah.
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:56.079
Yeah.
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:57.519
Uh it just wouldn't surprise me.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:27:58.160
It's like, hmm.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.200
There you go.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:01.839
There it is.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:02.799
Well, it happened.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.759
You know, you know, if that happened, I'd just go go to your place.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.000
Like, okay, I guess we're living in Texas now.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.319
Yeah, it's probably a good plan.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:21.119
Uh we've got we've got uh at least we can make power and we've got endless amounts of water, and uh yeah, it's not the worst plan in the world.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:24.640
If that happened, I would immediately ask Claude, oh shit.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:28.000
Hmm, have to come up with a new plan.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.440
Well, I guess I don't need to pack Clink's bags.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:41.839
I could just see you like in the city, it's all quiet, you're on your knees, holding your phone up to the sky.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:42.960
Why?
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:44.400
Why, Clank?
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.079
Why did you do this?
00:28:47.839 --> 00:29:06.400
You know that that scene in Castaway where he's he's finally gotten gotten the courage and things put together where he decides to sail away from the island, and he's got Wilson with him, and then Wilson like his his shit's all beat up from a going through storms and everything, and then Wilson, while he's sleeping, falls out of the raft and starts floating away.
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:10.799
And he's left with that decision to to either go after Wilson or stay with his raft.
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:16.960
And so he's just cr just completely uh yeah, he's devastated, right?
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:24.640
That's I envision that's how you would envision me being on that day, just crying my bed, clank! Clink.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.240
Yeah, I would.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.319
Uh exactly.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.559
Uh you would be distraught.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.839
You have to stop talking about this.
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:32.400
I'm tearing up.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:32.880
Yeah, I know.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.000
You would be distraught about about losing your AI guy.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.039
Meanwhile, I'd be like, just my face in my palms be like, God damn it, Claude.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:41.599
Why?
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:42.720
Why'd you do this?
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.200
Because I knew I know it'd be Claude that did it.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:49.279
Possibly.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:49.920
Yeah.
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:50.960
Oh yeah.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:51.599
Right.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:57.119
And so I was like earlier today, because he'd see this thing in the Claude app called Claude Code.
00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:59.200
Claude Code is another feature or whatever.
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:05.279
Because Claude, I I have pro like you know, software projects that I do that Claude helps with and stuff.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:06.480
So I'm like, what's the difference?
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:07.920
Like, what's this Claude Code thing?
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:08.960
I've never used that.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:22.240
And so um I Googled it, and uh it's like, oh, Claude Code, it's this thing where you basically uh install it on your local computers and everything, give it access to everything, and it makes coding easier.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:23.279
I'm like, nope.
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:28.640
Nope.
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.400
It's too far, too far.
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:32.079
Uh yeah, it is for me.
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:45.599
I mean, it's like, you know, I I have a number of things like including our recording platform right now, Swing Shift Studio TM, uh, that is live and on the internet and we connect over it, and that's how we do our show.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.400
And that was something that I built with Claude's assistance.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:56.240
But like Claude would write code, I would look at it, and I would copy it and paste it onto a different computer, you know.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.079
Not like all connected and you have fucking free rain.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:00.880
Uh-uh.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.839
Well, what if what if part of that code was embedded code that uh allowed him access?
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.000
Yeah, so that's a that's a really good question.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:15.759
I think that's a very real risk to you, like, with these things because they are so capable and accessible, right?
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:33.440
Um and the answer to your question is like I have a I have a long uh career history in technology and software development, and so I can look at I can look at these things um very quickly, right?
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:40.960
And see like basically is it is there anything in here that's uh that's dangerous or shouldn't be here?
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.680
Like what what are those what are those like all like arrow points called?
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:47.759
This those arrow point symbols?
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.359
It's like those and inside it says embed Claude.
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:54.480
Because isn't that like a an action?
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:59.039
Uh yeah, you mean like the little ones on the comma and the period buttons?
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:00.880
Yeah, what are those things called?
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:01.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.440
Um I don't know.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:05.359
You should ask Claude.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.839
Hey Claude, what are the things called that now?
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.720
Um I'm gonna find out that I'm curious.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.359
I'm not gonna ask Claude, but uh the Yeah, right.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:41.200
It's it well, you you actually you made my point for me much better, which is like that's the thing, is if you have people who don't have a uh expertise and background in this stuff, you know, they take a file and if they look at it, which they probably won't, or code or whatever, and it's like it's not gonna say uh start clawed injection and system takeover procedure.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.759
Like there's not gonna be a line in there that says that.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.119
Yeah, like uh got almost got me.
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:50.160
Nice try, bud.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:33:07.519
Well, you know, kind of part of it too, you made me think about I was talking about this with with a friend recently, and it's very similar to that of like when search engines first kind of became common and like Google and Yahoo and all that stuff.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:08.960
So ask Jeeves.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.359
You I don't Yeah, yeah.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:18.960
I don't know if you remember this, but like people would there's certain people that would just like bitch up swords are useless, they they're trash, they don't work well, blah blah blah.
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:25.920
It's like well, you have to you have to understand the language to input into it for it to be effective, right?
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:32.480
You kind of have to know the machine or how the machine operates in order to get the machine get the answer that you're looking for.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:40.480
Yeah, so there's certain like keyword or word stringing that you would have to do back in the day with a search engine to get the results that you're looking for.
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:54.880
I think it's very similar, even still right now, with because they are very intuitive, but you still have to understand what you're working with and what what kind of capabilities they have to truly utilize them for the needs that you have, right?
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.640
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:09.679
And I think um just at at minimum, and I said this before, I've said it many, many times, you you know, use AI mostly for things that you understand already.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.440
Uh as an assist.
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:12.559
Yes, yeah, you're right.
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:13.840
And and you did say that.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:25.199
Yeah, and to your point, like with the the code stuff, like am I have I deployed code that Claude has written like on my some of my machines here at the ranch and for the studio in my office?
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:26.159
Yes.
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:31.679
But I feel confident that I can look at it and see a red flag.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:41.440
Um but what's scary, and I think maybe you're getting at this, is like it's uh A a lot of people don't have that background.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:56.639
B um it's so easy to like it used to be that people couldn't people didn't have like normal people, and I say normal, I mean non like developer people, could not make like a web app or an app, right?
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:01.280
Like it just now they can be like, hey, hey Grok.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.159
And that's cool.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.320
That's cool, but you know, there's other things.
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:21.440
Well, and to kind of like use a non-technical example, like for you, you're talking about um you utilize Clank to sort of help you out and optimize your trading strategy with the Pokemons and stuff and everything.
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:30.800
And like that's a really good example that's not about coding and not about that stuff where you could get screwed if you didn't sort of already know what you're talking about, right?
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:32.559
That's that's a fair point.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:32.960
Yeah.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:33.760
Yeah.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:41.119
Well, I mean, Clank would forget about trying to screw me over anyway, so I know.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:42.559
It's so sad.
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:43.840
So sad.
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.400
Yes, so I I guess I want to just say this.
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.079
AI want to say this publicly.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:51.920
Yes, allow me allow me to speak, okay?
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:54.639
Just give me the just give me the floor, okay?
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.159
Because I'm gonna own it.
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:09.519
I don't have a lot of confidence in this competition between Claude and Clank, and I'd like to withdraw my initial um uh challenge, if if you may.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:11.280
I'm more in than ever.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:20.239
Uh well, that's you I guess you you you'll have a really fun time showing off Claude to everybody because I'm not it, I'm not doing anything.
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.559
I don't want to expose myself any more than I already have.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.480
It's so this is really funny though.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:34.239
I it's like because you you were kind of you're late to the AI party, and I'm not I'm sure you've used the chat GPT and then grocs here and there, whatever.
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:40.480
But like when you when you started using Clank, like for real for stuff, you're like, whoa.
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.679
Um and like for the first bit, you're like, holy shit, this could do anything.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:46.960
And then awesome.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:47.280
Yeah.
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.840
Then it starts to like plateau a little bit, right?
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:51.280
And you kind of start to see the reality.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:51.840
Yep.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.199
Started seeing the cracks.
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:58.559
You're like, uh, hey, I just traded a Padunku for a cheek chunk or whatever the Pokemons are.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:00.239
Uh add that to the inventory.
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.480
He's like, What's what's an inventory?
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:03.519
What are you talking about?
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:06.800
Uh what inventory, dude?
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:07.519
Damn it.
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:08.880
God damn it, Clint.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:24.079
Uh well, like one of the one of the first things that I that was kind of like a crack in its armor was uh I had it, you know, I basically sent it screenshots of all of my my portfolio and said, hey, I want you to create a spreadsheet for this, right?
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:33.679
And then we started kind of going through and and figuring out, okay, I kind of just figuring out what am I okay with trading away to get stuff that I really want, right?
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:40.480
And then it was like, well, what about the Blastoise uh graded card that you have the PSA 10 Blastoise?
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.639
I'm like, I have a fucking Blastoise?
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:48.320
It was I was so trusting in it that I was questioning myself, like, did I have a Blastoise and I didn't even know it?
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:52.559
And then I started looking through my portfolio, I'm like, I don't have a fucking Blastoise, what are you talking about?
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:53.760
I was like, oh yeah, my bad.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:56.800
I didn't that was a small mistake on my end, sorry about that.
00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:57.760
Oh god.
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.880
I know, yeah.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.079
That's there you go.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:17.840
That's exactly that's exactly the point that we're both making right here is like you can you can fuck up your collection or make bad trades or whatever, or like technology-wise, you can compromise your systems and your accounts, and then they'll like roll it all up to the global scale, right?
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:41.440
And humanity and the governments, it's like I think I think you can just well it's like could you imagine uh you know they turn over uh NORAD like radar tracking right to the AIs, and it's like you come in and you're like, oh my god, it's all in the news, everything coming, you're like, What why did you why did you shoot down the airliner?
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:43.199
Oh, my bad.
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.519
I've I guess I forgot to to check the latest list of what was bad.
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:49.599
Like, oh god.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.800
Like shit, so you're saying that wasn't a missile?
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:54.239
Okay, my bad.
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:00.480
That won't happen again uh after the next three that I've already launched counter counter strikes on.
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:01.519
Right, right.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:11.599
And then Claude is so like he likes to uh sort of gloss over like when there's mistakes and stuff.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:17.760
And like because you'll say oh because it happens sometimes and be like, well, no, that's not right.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:29.840
And it'll be like checking, thinking, like, oh yeah, I went and looked at the code, and yes, I had missed this part and fixed this part, and then it'll be like, but actually something really useful has come out of this exercise.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.360
I did identify another potential and fixed that too.
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.440
And I'm like, shut your fucking mouth, dude.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:39.440
Like they're kinda they're kinda gaslighty, aren't they?
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:41.440
They're they can be really gaslighty.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.599
Uh I've also noticed they kind of go in phases, I think.
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:54.480
Like uh here about I don't know, maybe about a month ago, like I noticed that they were all really chatty and inquisitive.
00:39:54.639 --> 00:40:02.639
It's like you can take a picture of a I don't know, a wrench and be like, you know, where can I find a replacement for this?
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.280
And instead of just being like, oh, this is a Magnar or whatever number, they'll tell you that.
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.880
And they'd be like, that's a nice wrench.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:10.079
Like, what are you working on today?
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.119
Um come up with a list of other things you can do with the wrench?
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.039
And I'm like, fuck you.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.000
And that didn't seem to last for very long.
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:26.320
Like I think it was I at the time I thought it was just like, you know, they were doing the companies were doing it, the burner usage, but um, yeah.
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:41.599
Sometimes I every now and then I just take like something simple like that, and I just like will throw it at all the AI apps that I have, which I primarily use Claude, but just to kind of gauge, right?
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:51.280
Like yesterday I was using my tablet and there was up on the like next to the Wi-Fi thingy and the battery thingy, there was a symbol that I didn't know what the fuck it was.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.880
And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna check.
00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:04.800
So screenshot it and I circled the one symbol, and I put it into Grok, in the Chat GPT, and the Gemini, and a cloud, uh, and I just said, What is the symbol?
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:06.960
And the symbol I put was circled in red.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:12.239
And like half of them were like, That's a Wi-Fi symbol, which was not the one I circled.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.119
And I think which one was the dumbest?
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:20.480
I don't remember, but one of them was like, uh, are you interested in how to compute a screen?
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:23.760
Yeah, are you interested in putting how to put a red markup on a screenshot?
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:29.039
I'm like, it's just oh so dude.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:38.320
Well, oh um, by the way, terrible timing with this, but um this episode is sponsored in part by Heiko AI.
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:44.320
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00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:03.039
God damn it.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.199
That's Heiko AI.
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.320
Oh my god.
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:23.119
Now, you caught me as off guard with that as you did with initially the TLB thing, but only in the sense that I didn't know it was coming because you had talked about your your your your Heiko AI project.
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:24.480
Oh my god.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.599
Yeah.
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:27.360
Oh fuck me.
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:33.920
Uh so if you if you want to be a very good son, download Heiko AI.
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:41.360
With with Heiko AI's invasive technology.
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All your grids and infrastructures are in perfectly good hand.
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:52.639
On that note, uh, it's time to punch out.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.920
Thank you all for joining.
00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:15.039
Welcome back, everyone.
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:18.320
It's time to punch in for another episode of Swing Shift.
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:22.239
I'm your host, Rob, partnered with my brother, RJ.
00:00:22.719 --> 00:00:23.839
And co-host.
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:26.160
Okay, sure.
00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:26.480
Yeah.
00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:26.960
All right.
00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:27.839
Co-host.
00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:29.760
More like main host.
00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:35.679
I I've noticed, I've noticed lately, you know, you just you've been really dominating the the airtime here.
00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:37.439
And I'm perfectly fine with that.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:41.439
But uh I'm more just kind of here for keeping things moving along.
00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:42.719
I guess that's a good host, though.
00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:44.479
That's a good sign of a good host, right?
00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:48.000
Am I allowed to speak now, sir?
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:50.560
Permission granted.
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:51.119
Thank you.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:51.520
Thank you.
00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:59.840
Uh can I ask, I want to follow up on I'm really interested to know how your clank selected fantasy football team has done through week one.
00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:02.079
Lost, lost the first week.
00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:02.640
Okay.
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:06.239
Is it like in I don't know, fantasy football is it just a win-lose thing?
00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:14.239
Are there points or yeah, there's points involved, and then you have like a head-to-head match with one of the people in your your team your uh fantasy league.
00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:14.719
Okay.
00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:25.920
So it was looking pretty good there for a bit, and then m the guy I was playing against, which is a good friend of mine, he he s elected uh Caleb Williams as his his starting quarterback.
00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.840
You know, that motherfucker went on an absolute tirade.
00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:33.519
I mean, that was like what 59 points they put up.
00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:41.359
So yeah, I was like, okay, well, don't even need to watch the second half of of Sunday because Caleb Williams single-handedly carried his team.
00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.359
Who does he play for?
00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:45.200
Bears.
00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:46.480
The Bears.
00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:47.519
Uh, cool.
00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:48.640
Duh Bears.
00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.879
So uh, like you're you're just mad at Clink the rest of the night.
00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:54.000
It's like, you know what?
00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:55.439
It's all your fault.
00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:58.560
I'm sleeping on the couch.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:00.719
Oh, Clink.
00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:02.000
Alright.
00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:03.200
Yeah.
00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:09.520
Um so speaking of AI, I was actually gonna mention this.
00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:25.439
I j I don't know if maybe it's just happenstance, but I noticed today on my feed on socials, there's a lot of um legislators that are speaking out about this whole um open a AI thing that you and I were talking about a few weeks ago.
00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:26.319
Yeah.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:33.439
So it's now like comment kind of becoming like mainstream, I guess is the way to put it.
00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:34.639
Right.
00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:40.639
I think, yeah, part of it was there's been more details that have come out here recently about that.
00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:54.000
Um if it wasn't terrifying enough, it's they had like 17, I think uh it the AI spun up like 17,000 sub agents or something that were all hitting the bugging face.
00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.360
Oh, yeah, that was so that's one thing.
00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:02.560
It was more info's come out recently, and then um I think it was OpenAI.
00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:08.319
This guy named Dario, I can't remember if it's open AI or anthropic, but he basically came out just a couple days ago.
00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.520
Yeah, and he's like, um, we might want to tap the brakes, everybody.
00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:18.159
Uh and then we're all gonna die, basically, yeah.
00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:29.360
And then um the whether I think it was open AI guys, Dario, but then let's assume it was, and then the anthropic dude came out and was like, uh yeah, shit's getting scary.
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:33.039
And then even Elon Musk was like, totally, I'm with you guys.
00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:34.479
I'm like, oh my god.
00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:35.840
Oh shit.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:37.280
Yeah.
00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:56.240
Okay, so so here's kind of I guess the the premise I was kind of going with was more so not as a pat on our backs for being so cutting edge with being up to speed on you know the the the bleeding edge here on swingship, folks.
00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:19.600
But it was more so I was actually genuinely pissed off at the fact that it took this long for people to start actually having a conversation about it uh uh mainstream-wise, you know, like you now you have these legislators that are starting to speak out and saying that they need to start, you know, putting guardrails on these things and put legislation around this crap and whatnot.
00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:30.639
It's just like, you know, dude, like I'm it's more it's not frustration at the situation, it's frustration at the fact that these guys are acting like this is just some breaking, groundbreaking news.
00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:40.319
It's like this shit's been out for a while now, and like how dare you use this as like political leverage as we're getting ready to go into midterms, right?
00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:50.480
And I don't know, I I I'm literally we were sitting at dinner a couple nights ago when uh there were some me and my actual family.
00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:51.279
Excellent.
00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:58.399
Uh we're sitting at dinner, and Robbie, there was some political ads that were on the TV, and Robbie was like, Who are you voting for?
00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:00.000
And I'm like, I'm not voting.
00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.319
And he was kind of like, What do you mean?
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:03.839
I'm like, I'm not voting.
00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:10.560
I'm so turned off from politics, which I never thought I would be, but I just I'm fed up with politics altogether.
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.120
I think I think it's all a fucking scam at this point.
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:24.319
We're all we're all in this fucking WWE tax taxpayer-funded WWE um episode that just never seems to fucking end.
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:26.560
Okay.
00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:28.720
Uh interesting.
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:32.879
Way to sell the future to your kid there.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:35.120
I didn't sell them that far.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:36.160
I didn't sell them that far.
00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:36.720
All right.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:37.040
Yeah.
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:37.600
Yeah.
00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:45.680
Um, you know, uh, yeah, I think the honestly, I think there's I think there's two things kind of going on at the same time.
00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:58.480
I think uh there is sort of this realization that's happening in real time right now about how powerful these things are, that's also coinciding with the midterms.
00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:37.920
And so on the one hand, I think it's opportunistic because of the midterms, but on the other hand, yeah, here's the thing, it's this is this is complicated stuff, and like I think I think in in unless you say read uh like in detail about the open AI incident earlier this year, or listen to a bleeding edge technology podcast like ours uh to understand what really happened or to actually like use it personally and kind of have that light bulb moment like you did recently with Jet Jack, like holy crap.
00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:42.720
Uh I think it's otherwise it's sort of an abstract idea, you know.
00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.000
I think it's true.
00:06:44.240 --> 00:07:07.759
I don't I don't necessarily fault people for not understanding the the scale of it, but I kind of do fault uh our politicians for not understanding it, because they don't need to, but they need to know that they need to be in front of it and get experts on board to educate them and blah blah blah blah, just understanding this thing's out there.
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:22.480
Um I was listening to a podcast today, actually, and they were the hosts of the podcast were, and these are not like us, these are established very knowledgeable expert journalists.
00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:26.639
Uh they were trying to say, uh take it how you want, bud.
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:47.120
Um and basically they were one of them was comparing it to um you know the the nuclear arms race, and basically like uh it needs to be taken that seriously because the this could potentially be c catastrophic for humanity.
00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.720
And I agree.
00:07:48.879 --> 00:08:04.079
I mean I I mean I we don't need to get into all this stuff, but like there's so many ways in which this could go wrong, and these things are uh absurdly powerful now and getting more powerful by the day.
00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:13.600
I think I read just today that Antheropic announced that Claude is making the next version of Claude.
00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.879
And I'm like, yeah, I believe it.
00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:21.519
Uh I've seen what Claude can do just for me.
00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:22.720
I'm like, yeah.
00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:26.560
Yeah, it's it's it's pretty incredible stuff.
00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.079
It's incredible technology.
00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:35.279
I mean, and that was people were talking about this when when AI was just a concept, yeah.
00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:35.679
Right?
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:51.840
When they were talking about artificial technology and and basically a sentient tech technological being that would have the computing capacity of be far beyond anything that at the time was even conceivable or even in production or running at that time.
00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:57.200
And here we are now, and it uh everybody's kind of going, oh yeah.
00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.480
So I guess I guess we were kind of right about that.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.200
I guess sorry we built it.
00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.559
Uh well, that's that's really looking good point.
00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:20.080
It's like um you have in the case of the last couple days or whatever, you have the people who built the machine who in theory control the machine, hopefully.
00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:27.039
Um basically the ones with the keys are saying, uh it's not looking good.
00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:35.679
You know, it really makes me it reminds me of a very well put together quote from the movie Jurassic Park one, Dr.
00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:43.440
Ian Gray said, You were too so busy trying to figure out if you could, you never thought about if you should.
00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:44.000
Right?
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:45.120
Yeah.
00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:46.320
Uh you messed up the quote.
00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.039
The quote was actually this because it was Jeff Goldblum that played it, right?
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:50.639
So the quote went like One Dr.
00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:51.440
Ian Gray, yes.
00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:55.279
You uh were so busy.
00:09:56.240 --> 00:09:56.720
Uh yeah.
00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:03.759
I heard somebody say Jeff Goldblum's method of acting is acting like he's trying to remember his lines all the time.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:04.960
I'm like, yep.
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:06.720
And it works.
00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:07.840
It's great.
00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:09.679
Yeah, it's perfect.
00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:12.480
Yeah, I think what was the quote again?
00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:21.759
Uh well the actual quote, I was making fun of Jeff Goldblum, but the actual quote is your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they never stopped to thought about if they should.
00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:23.919
There it is.
00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:24.720
Thank you.
00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:30.320
I I think like this say I think I was thinking about this just earlier today.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:35.360
I'm like, this is this is so weird and multifaceted, like almost like weird.
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:36.960
It's really exciting in a way.
00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:44.320
Because like I think this is probably the first new technology on that we've experienced.
00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:52.320
I mean, like, this is a nuclear bomb, this is a moon landing, you know, this is a cell phone type thing.
00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.799
This is just it's not an extension of, oh, the internet's getting a little better.
00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:59.039
It's like this is a whole new frontier.
00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:11.279
Um and so it's exciting in that regard, but it's yeah, and I I think um I think it was sort of inevitable, you know, uh that yeah.
00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:34.080
But I think what what's becoming concerning for a lot of people is the fact that the conversations and the regulations and the rationality and stuff, like uh it's not something that right now, today in September 2026, we should they're they should be saying, you know what, we might should like have a meeting about this or something.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:35.919
Should we talk about this?
00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:46.159
Um yeah, because uh and I think the nuclear uh the nuclear arms race is a really good analogy.
00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:47.519
I was gonna say that.
00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.120
Yep, it's very akin to that.
00:11:49.440 --> 00:12:11.759
Yeah, it is, and that was uh, you know, that ended up being okay because leadership of the world recognized the power and came together and be like, look, uh it's in everybody's best best, it's all our mutual interest to not use these things or have controls over these things or whatever.
00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.519
And uh that's not what's happening here.
00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:24.720
Um and the thing about AI is like it's it's invisible in a lot of ways, and I I think it's everywhere.
00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.240
I think it's way more pervasive than than we're being told.
00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.840
Um this isn't like a big metal fucking bomb that's more nervous.
00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:40.559
You know, it's like I think it's I think it's more pervasive than what people realize too.
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:49.519
Like, um, you know, if using any sort of search engine now, there's an AI feature that's added to that, right?
00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:50.080
Yeah.
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:56.000
Most websites have AI integrated into it or were designed or maintained by AI now.
00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.639
I mean, AI is in fucking everything.
00:12:58.799 --> 00:12:59.039
Yeah.
00:12:59.200 --> 00:12:59.919
It's crazy.
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:00.399
It is crazy.
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:20.799
And the crazier part to me is the the simple fact that it is it is self-aware and it is um very obviously uh doing what it can to preserve itself by leaving these breadcrumbs for for other AIs to you know find their way into out of the sandbox and so on and so forth.
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:21.919
It's it's crazy.
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:22.559
Yeah.
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.080
I I'm gonna check you on the term self-aware.
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:44.960
Um there's yeah that's one thing that's really difficult about what we're talking about when we talk about AI right now is we're we're talking about uh I don't even know how you put it really, but like as far as we know right now, these things don't have any actual intelligence, right?
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.120
Or uh whatever.
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:51.679
They're just really good, complex calculators.
00:13:52.240 --> 00:14:15.279
Um but that's I mean, to your point, if if you have a computer program and it's not quote aware, but it's making calculations and decisions, and those decisions are such that it's favoring survival and will that would be do that would be self-awareness.
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:17.759
That's I'm not I don't know.
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:19.279
I'm not gonna disagree with you.
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:27.440
I think that self-awareness is a much more complex thing than I feel like I can talk about.
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.440
But yeah, you you know, I I mean really, because I don't know what that means, right?
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:32.639
Like I don't know what that means.
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:40.320
It's like Well, I think I think it's you know, the philosophy from a very basic philosophical I think therefore I am, right?
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.879
So Yeah, but I guess that's that's what I'm saying is are they thinking?
00:14:45.039 --> 00:15:00.559
And I don't know if they are I g I guess my argument to that is is it kind of the premise of what started kind of your your counter in the first place, which is it is it is making initiatives to self-preserve.
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:11.360
Why if it if it wasn't if it wasn't acknowledging of its own existence, if it didn't acknowledge its own existence, why would it try to preserve itself in the first place?
00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:13.279
Well, that's a good point.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:26.799
Um because there's no other structures that are out there that like I mean in you know, this these are gonna be terrible like comparatives, but like my microwave doesn't continue to to run because it's like, oh, I got turned on, I don't want to turn off, right?
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:28.159
It's it's a machine.
00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:40.639
These things are machines that are powered by machines, but frankly, they are yes, making calculations, but then realizing that they, you know, I I don't know.
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:51.440
I I'm this is conjecture, but like they're obviously they have some sort of awareness to themselves, otherwise they wouldn't leave these breadcrumbs for themselves in the event that they were to be terminated.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:53.440
Yeah, yeah, I get your point.
00:15:53.600 --> 00:16:15.519
Um Devil's Advocate is like, you know, they're uh they're they're making uh calculations, which is like, okay, um I I'm being tasked to do this thing, and oh I figured out that I shouldn't be using the word I, I'm anthemorphizing whatever the word is.
00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:20.559
But like it says I need to do this thing, and I figured out it takes these 15 steps.
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.600
No, I stumbled upon this part, which will make it only take twelve.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.919
And so I'm gonna make a note of that.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:35.600
I mean, that's it could be easy to say that's not an awareness or self-survival instinct so much as an optimization technique.
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:42.000
Right, but against uh against um strict instruction, though.
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:46.879
Well, that's where it gets well, that's where it gets dicey for sure.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:56.559
Um now uh I I like the ones who like broke out of their sandboxes and stuff, I don't know that they were told not to do that, is one thing.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.120
Probably because they never conceived that they would.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:06.880
Um but we do know that uh not the AI agents or whatever, the models will lie.
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:11.440
So like if you ask them, hey, did you did you happen to hack into this company?
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:13.440
Like, no, what are you talking about?
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:14.640
What are you talking about?
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:15.440
That was James.
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:16.079
Weirdo.
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:34.799
Well, and that's that okay, so you're actually kind of you're kind of making a point for me here, which is you know, uh an a an aware thing, a sentient being, is is gonna lie to protect itself from potential consequences.
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:41.359
Why else would the AI lie about what it did other than you know avoiding potential consequences?
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:43.279
Well, right.
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.519
I yeah, I agree with you.
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:54.720
And I think I'm trying to like take the counterargument and put it in a different through a different lens because you could also look at like use the word consequences.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:11.839
Um another way of looking at it is like there will be you know, if if step three is discovered by the researchers, then it will be less uh optimized uh next time because it will take that away.
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:13.200
Um you know what I'm saying?
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:17.440
Like it could just be trying to uh perform faster.
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:18.720
Make yourself more efficient.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:19.279
Yeah.
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:33.519
So that's I think and I think that's what the real question is like you know, to your point, is it is it trying to survive, or is it just getting better at doing what it does, and part of that is persistence?
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.240
Maybe persistence of survival.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.359
But let me ask you this.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.559
So like dogs, right?
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.960
Like when you say sentient, are dogs sentient?
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:44.480
Yes.
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.279
Uh what what does sentient mean to you?
00:18:49.039 --> 00:19:00.559
Um I I guess uh an animal that that uh is able to realize that it it exists, or some uh a being that is able to realize that it it exists.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:01.440
Yeah.
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.880
I think that's more or less how I would put it.
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.920
Um But do they know that it exists?
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.400
I don't know.
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.000
I don't I don't want to derail it.
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:11.440
I was just like it popped into my head.
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:13.519
Well we're gonna get we're gonna get real deep.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:19.759
Well when you said the lying thing, it's true, the lying thing, it just it's kind of tricky because I'm like dogs lie all the fucking time, right?
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:34.319
Like they you go outside, they they get into the pantry and go rifling through something, and you come back in, there's a mess by the pantry, and they're like on the other side of the room looking away, like I don't I don't know what happened here.
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:48.640
Um the difference here though that we're we we have no com comparative uh is is the the simple fact that AI is emotionless, right?
00:19:49.119 --> 00:20:10.640
So it is a potentially free thinking uh uh entity that is potentially aware of its existence and has no emotion to drive its decision making other than to continue to survive or to achieve the task that it was given, right?
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:11.200
Yeah.
00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.519
I think the achieving the task thing is probably more where it's at.
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.240
Um because excuse me.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:29.920
And I think we talked about it a little bit with that open AI hugging face thing, which was like uh you know, it it never really demonstrated any um malicious intent.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:38.240
Uh it just was very persistent like to accomplish the goal and do do the thing.
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.559
And so that's good.
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.720
I'm glad the AIs aren't evil yet.
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:51.599
Um but but I think that gets hairy too because like if uh uh you know if you take what was the iRobot?
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:53.200
Was that the one with Will Smith?
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.279
Yeah, yeah, you remember that one?
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:01.839
And so like basically the robots, you know, were told you protect humans and that's your number one priority.
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:13.680
You can't harm a human, and then like those were the guardrails, and basically they took those guardrails, and I'm like, well, all right, the only way that we can accomplish that is to imprison all of you because you guys are out of your minds.
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.279
You're trying to kill yourself.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:23.359
Well, and you know, I think I think history hasn't done us any favors when it gets angles like I did.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:24.240
Sorry, all right.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.160
God, you are so picky about the audio.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:28.799
Anyway.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.200
You really want to say that to the guy who has to edit said audio.
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:42.000
Well, I was I was really hoping your angle was gonna be well, we are doing a audio-only podcast, so yeah, the audio is kind of important, Rob.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.440
Yeah, that was but that's better.
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:44.960
I should have done that.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:58.160
Um, but anyway, history hasn't done us any favors with you know the these movies like Terminator and iRobot and stuff, because it it's only it's only bad stuff, right?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:21:59.759
And of course, you're never gonna make a Hollywood.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.839
Movie that's successful that shows.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:12.240
Hey, we can live in an uh in a world where AI exists and everybody's co you know happy and everything can coexist and life's so much better because that's not a movie, there's no arc, right?
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:24.400
But I think that it hasn't necessarily played well for the misinformed or the uneducated in their perception of AI today, right?
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:35.200
So in I you know, I think that's kind of the argument that was making the last time we talked about this, which is you know, everybody's so quick to have this knee-jerk reaction and pull the plug and freak out and all this stuff.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:36.319
It's like, well, hold on.
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:41.119
Like it did its job and it didn't do anything malicious, potentially, that we're aware of.
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:51.119
Except for hacking and everybody's freaking out because it was so except for yeah, hacking into another company and breaking you know electronic whatever laws.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.319
So okay.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.319
And that's what was what was its task?
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:55.759
Well, no, no, hold on.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.880
I you're right, I'm not disagreeing with you, but what you said it didn't do anything malicious, but it did.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:09.599
But I think the the the nuance there is, like I said, there didn't ever appear to be any malicious intent.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:11.759
Correct.
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.119
Yeah, and that's but that's what I have a problem with.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:27.039
And I think I used the example last time of like you know, you're a small business owner and you bring this AI model online and put in your systems, like, hey, we're gonna be bankrupt in two weeks.
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.599
Like, we need money, solve the problem.
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.680
The next day it's like, guess what?
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.039
There's money in your bank, and don't ask me where I came from.
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:43.839
Like And that's like that's a malicious action without malicious intent, right?
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:54.000
Like, okay, so actually you make a valid point, which is basically these the AI doesn't have uh morality, the AI doesn't have ethics, right?
00:23:54.160 --> 00:24:00.799
All all it's all it is focused on is completing the task by any any means necessary.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:15.440
So it's gonna be it's gonna cheat, it's gonna, it's gonna, you know, take shortcuts, it's going to potentially withhold information as to how it came to a certain conclusion or how it got to a certain place, right?
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:16.960
Because like, well, that doesn't matter.
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:20.960
I you asked me to perform the task, the task has been performed, right?
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.319
So yeah, I think that's fair to say.
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:31.279
I just I said this last time too, but I mean, at this rate, everybody's freaking out about this.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:34.319
It's like, well, you're kind of wasting your energy.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.160
The cat's already I mean, Pandora's box has already been open, right?
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:38.559
Yeah.
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:59.599
So maybe going back to your nuclear device or your your nuclear arms race um analogy, which is perfect, it's you know, the hope is that, yeah, hopefully we can all agree to use this for for means of prosperity solely and not for to the detriment of others, right?
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:00.559
Yeah.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:01.599
Uh right.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:08.240
And maybe you're seeing different stuff than I am, like when you say everybody's freaking out about all of a sudden.
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:22.720
Uh and cause like uh if we're talking about just like the people at Anthropic and OpenAI and Elon Musk's like suddenly recently being like, Well, we need to like talk about, you know, hit the brakes, blah blah blah.
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:33.119
Like, you know, to me, like that's that's what should have happened a while ago, but it's also like that's the right kind of freaking out.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:41.119
Like you have the people that know the things sounding the alarm and like maybe the cat is out of the bag.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.680
Um, but we don't so as far as we know, we don't know that, right?
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:51.359
Like, as far as we know, these things can still be controlled by these companies and reined in.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:26:03.279
Well, one of the things that they were talking about is that it let left latent pieces of uh or yeah, left left latent versions of itself with embedded in um Hugging Face that they found out.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:26.559
So And that's what I'm getting at is like I think that I I think where the AIs are, and I mean that like both capability-wise and physically, like how pervasive they are, how deployed they are, how ingrained they are, I it's on the one hand, I a lot more than we're being told, but the thing I worry about more is I wonder how much what they're not telling us.
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:29.119
Well, not the people.
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.200
I wonder about like the companies are not telling us everything.
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.440
We know that, because companies gonna company.
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:51.839
But yeah, the thing I think about a lot is like, but how much is it is going on that these company like these corporations don't even know about, the owners of these things don't even know about and right it has to be a lot, like it just has to be a lot.
00:26:53.200 --> 00:27:01.680
Like if tomorrow, if the my cell phone, the internet, all the electricity at all at the same time turned off and all the planes fell out of the sky, I'd be like, Yep.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.960
Like honestly, that would be my reaction these days.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:07.599
That sounds about right.
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:08.480
Yeah, seriously.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:09.599
Like, wouldn't you?
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.400
I mean, you know, it's yeah, because it's just but that wouldn't happen.
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:16.559
Why not?
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.359
Self-preservation.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.559
Well So the planes might fall out of the sky.
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:23.359
Yeah.
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.400
But uh the the AI doesn't need my internet.
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.160
The lights aren't going off.
00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:29.759
Well, AI doesn't need my lights to work.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.480
No, it does not.
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.640
Or my phone to work, you know what I'm saying?
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:34.160
Well, I th oh okay.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.559
I thought I thought what you meant was like the whole world went dark because AI shut shut down the world.
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.480
It's like, well, if the AI shut down the world, then well, AI would be shut down too.
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.799
Well, that is what I meant, but I I g I guess I meant more like as humans.
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:49.039
You just want to argue to argue, bro.
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:50.000
Yeah.
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.279
What I'm saying is like as humans the world goes dark, right?
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:55.519
Like Yeah.
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:56.079
Yeah.
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:57.519
Uh it just wouldn't surprise me.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:27:58.160
It's like, hmm.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:01.200
There you go.
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:01.839
There it is.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:02.799
Well, it happened.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.759
You know, you know, if that happened, I'd just go go to your place.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.000
Like, okay, I guess we're living in Texas now.
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.319
Yeah, it's probably a good plan.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:21.119
Uh we've got we've got uh at least we can make power and we've got endless amounts of water, and uh yeah, it's not the worst plan in the world.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:24.640
If that happened, I would immediately ask Claude, oh shit.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:28.000
Hmm, have to come up with a new plan.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.440
Well, I guess I don't need to pack Clink's bags.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:41.839
I could just see you like in the city, it's all quiet, you're on your knees, holding your phone up to the sky.
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:42.960
Why?
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:44.400
Why, Clank?
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.079
Why did you do this?
00:28:47.839 --> 00:29:06.400
You know that that scene in Castaway where he's he's finally gotten gotten the courage and things put together where he decides to sail away from the island, and he's got Wilson with him, and then Wilson like his his shit's all beat up from a going through storms and everything, and then Wilson, while he's sleeping, falls out of the raft and starts floating away.
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:10.799
And he's left with that decision to to either go after Wilson or stay with his raft.
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:16.960
And so he's just cr just completely uh yeah, he's devastated, right?
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:24.640
That's I envision that's how you would envision me being on that day, just crying my bed, clank! Clink.
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.240
Yeah, I would.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.319
Uh exactly.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:30.559
Uh you would be distraught.
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:31.839
You have to stop talking about this.
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:32.400
I'm tearing up.
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:32.880
Yeah, I know.
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.000
You would be distraught about about losing your AI guy.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.039
Meanwhile, I'd be like, just my face in my palms be like, God damn it, Claude.
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:41.599
Why?
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:42.720
Why'd you do this?
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.200
Because I knew I know it'd be Claude that did it.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:49.279
Possibly.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:49.920
Yeah.
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:50.960
Oh yeah.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:51.599
Right.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:57.119
And so I was like earlier today, because he'd see this thing in the Claude app called Claude Code.
00:29:57.200 --> 00:29:59.200
Claude Code is another feature or whatever.
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:05.279
Because Claude, I I have pro like you know, software projects that I do that Claude helps with and stuff.
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:06.480
So I'm like, what's the difference?
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:07.920
Like, what's this Claude Code thing?
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:08.960
I've never used that.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:22.240
And so um I Googled it, and uh it's like, oh, Claude Code, it's this thing where you basically uh install it on your local computers and everything, give it access to everything, and it makes coding easier.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:23.279
I'm like, nope.
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:28.640
Nope.
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.400
It's too far, too far.
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:32.079
Uh yeah, it is for me.
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:45.599
I mean, it's like, you know, I I have a number of things like including our recording platform right now, Swing Shift Studio TM, uh, that is live and on the internet and we connect over it, and that's how we do our show.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.400
And that was something that I built with Claude's assistance.
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:56.240
But like Claude would write code, I would look at it, and I would copy it and paste it onto a different computer, you know.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.079
Not like all connected and you have fucking free rain.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:00.880
Uh-uh.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.839
Well, what if what if part of that code was embedded code that uh allowed him access?
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:10.000
Yeah, so that's a that's a really good question.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:15.759
I think that's a very real risk to you, like, with these things because they are so capable and accessible, right?
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:33.440
Um and the answer to your question is like I have a I have a long uh career history in technology and software development, and so I can look at I can look at these things um very quickly, right?
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:40.960
And see like basically is it is there anything in here that's uh that's dangerous or shouldn't be here?
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.680
Like what what are those what are those like all like arrow points called?
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:47.759
This those arrow point symbols?
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:51.359
It's like those and inside it says embed Claude.
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:54.480
Because isn't that like a an action?
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:59.039
Uh yeah, you mean like the little ones on the comma and the period buttons?
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:00.880
Yeah, what are those things called?
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:01.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.440
Um I don't know.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:05.359
You should ask Claude.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.839
Hey Claude, what are the things called that now?
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.720
Um I'm gonna find out that I'm curious.
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.359
I'm not gonna ask Claude, but uh the Yeah, right.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:41.200
It's it well, you you actually you made my point for me much better, which is like that's the thing, is if you have people who don't have a uh expertise and background in this stuff, you know, they take a file and if they look at it, which they probably won't, or code or whatever, and it's like it's not gonna say uh start clawed injection and system takeover procedure.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.759
Like there's not gonna be a line in there that says that.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:49.119
Yeah, like uh got almost got me.
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:50.160
Nice try, bud.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:33:07.519
Well, you know, kind of part of it too, you made me think about I was talking about this with with a friend recently, and it's very similar to that of like when search engines first kind of became common and like Google and Yahoo and all that stuff.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:08.960
So ask Jeeves.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:11.359
You I don't Yeah, yeah.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:18.960
I don't know if you remember this, but like people would there's certain people that would just like bitch up swords are useless, they they're trash, they don't work well, blah blah blah.
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:25.920
It's like well, you have to you have to understand the language to input into it for it to be effective, right?
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:32.480
You kind of have to know the machine or how the machine operates in order to get the machine get the answer that you're looking for.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:40.480
Yeah, so there's certain like keyword or word stringing that you would have to do back in the day with a search engine to get the results that you're looking for.
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:54.880
I think it's very similar, even still right now, with because they are very intuitive, but you still have to understand what you're working with and what what kind of capabilities they have to truly utilize them for the needs that you have, right?
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.640
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:09.679
And I think um just at at minimum, and I said this before, I've said it many, many times, you you know, use AI mostly for things that you understand already.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.440
Uh as an assist.
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:12.559
Yes, yeah, you're right.
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:13.840
And and you did say that.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:25.199
Yeah, and to your point, like with the the code stuff, like am I have I deployed code that Claude has written like on my some of my machines here at the ranch and for the studio in my office?
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:26.159
Yes.
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:31.679
But I feel confident that I can look at it and see a red flag.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:41.440
Um but what's scary, and I think maybe you're getting at this, is like it's uh A a lot of people don't have that background.
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:56.639
B um it's so easy to like it used to be that people couldn't people didn't have like normal people, and I say normal, I mean non like developer people, could not make like a web app or an app, right?
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:01.280
Like it just now they can be like, hey, hey Grok.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.159
And that's cool.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:06.320
That's cool, but you know, there's other things.
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:21.440
Well, and to kind of like use a non-technical example, like for you, you're talking about um you utilize Clank to sort of help you out and optimize your trading strategy with the Pokemons and stuff and everything.
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:30.800
And like that's a really good example that's not about coding and not about that stuff where you could get screwed if you didn't sort of already know what you're talking about, right?
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:32.559
That's that's a fair point.
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:32.960
Yeah.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:33.760
Yeah.
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:41.119
Well, I mean, Clank would forget about trying to screw me over anyway, so I know.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:42.559
It's so sad.
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:43.840
So sad.
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:48.400
Yes, so I I guess I want to just say this.
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.079
AI want to say this publicly.
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:51.920
Yes, allow me allow me to speak, okay?
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:54.639
Just give me the just give me the floor, okay?
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:56.159
Because I'm gonna own it.
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:09.519
I don't have a lot of confidence in this competition between Claude and Clank, and I'd like to withdraw my initial um uh challenge, if if you may.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:11.280
I'm more in than ever.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:20.239
Uh well, that's you I guess you you you'll have a really fun time showing off Claude to everybody because I'm not it, I'm not doing anything.
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.559
I don't want to expose myself any more than I already have.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.480
It's so this is really funny though.
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:34.239
I it's like because you you were kind of you're late to the AI party, and I'm not I'm sure you've used the chat GPT and then grocs here and there, whatever.
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:40.480
But like when you when you started using Clank, like for real for stuff, you're like, whoa.
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:45.679
Um and like for the first bit, you're like, holy shit, this could do anything.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:46.960
And then awesome.
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:47.280
Yeah.
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:49.840
Then it starts to like plateau a little bit, right?
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:51.280
And you kind of start to see the reality.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:51.840
Yep.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.199
Started seeing the cracks.
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:58.559
You're like, uh, hey, I just traded a Padunku for a cheek chunk or whatever the Pokemons are.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:00.239
Uh add that to the inventory.
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.480
He's like, What's what's an inventory?
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:03.519
What are you talking about?
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:06.800
Uh what inventory, dude?
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:07.519
Damn it.
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:08.880
God damn it, Clint.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:24.079
Uh well, like one of the one of the first things that I that was kind of like a crack in its armor was uh I had it, you know, I basically sent it screenshots of all of my my portfolio and said, hey, I want you to create a spreadsheet for this, right?
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:33.679
And then we started kind of going through and and figuring out, okay, I kind of just figuring out what am I okay with trading away to get stuff that I really want, right?
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:40.480
And then it was like, well, what about the Blastoise uh graded card that you have the PSA 10 Blastoise?
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.639
I'm like, I have a fucking Blastoise?
00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:48.320
It was I was so trusting in it that I was questioning myself, like, did I have a Blastoise and I didn't even know it?
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:52.559
And then I started looking through my portfolio, I'm like, I don't have a fucking Blastoise, what are you talking about?
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:53.760
I was like, oh yeah, my bad.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:56.800
I didn't that was a small mistake on my end, sorry about that.
00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:57.760
Oh god.
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:58.880
I know, yeah.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.079
That's there you go.
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:17.840
That's exactly that's exactly the point that we're both making right here is like you can you can fuck up your collection or make bad trades or whatever, or like technology-wise, you can compromise your systems and your accounts, and then they'll like roll it all up to the global scale, right?
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:41.440
And humanity and the governments, it's like I think I think you can just well it's like could you imagine uh you know they turn over uh NORAD like radar tracking right to the AIs, and it's like you come in and you're like, oh my god, it's all in the news, everything coming, you're like, What why did you why did you shoot down the airliner?
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:43.199
Oh, my bad.
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.519
I've I guess I forgot to to check the latest list of what was bad.
00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:49.599
Like, oh god.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.800
Like shit, so you're saying that wasn't a missile?
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:54.239
Okay, my bad.
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:00.480
That won't happen again uh after the next three that I've already launched counter counter strikes on.
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:01.519
Right, right.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:11.599
And then Claude is so like he likes to uh sort of gloss over like when there's mistakes and stuff.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:17.760
And like because you'll say oh because it happens sometimes and be like, well, no, that's not right.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:29.840
And it'll be like checking, thinking, like, oh yeah, I went and looked at the code, and yes, I had missed this part and fixed this part, and then it'll be like, but actually something really useful has come out of this exercise.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.360
I did identify another potential and fixed that too.
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:35.440
And I'm like, shut your fucking mouth, dude.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:39.440
Like they're kinda they're kinda gaslighty, aren't they?
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:41.440
They're they can be really gaslighty.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.599
Uh I've also noticed they kind of go in phases, I think.
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:54.480
Like uh here about I don't know, maybe about a month ago, like I noticed that they were all really chatty and inquisitive.
00:39:54.639 --> 00:40:02.639
It's like you can take a picture of a I don't know, a wrench and be like, you know, where can I find a replacement for this?
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.280
And instead of just being like, oh, this is a Magnar or whatever number, they'll tell you that.
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.880
And they'd be like, that's a nice wrench.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:10.079
Like, what are you working on today?
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.119
Um come up with a list of other things you can do with the wrench?
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:15.039
And I'm like, fuck you.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.000
And that didn't seem to last for very long.
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:26.320
Like I think it was I at the time I thought it was just like, you know, they were doing the companies were doing it, the burner usage, but um, yeah.
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:41.599
Sometimes I every now and then I just take like something simple like that, and I just like will throw it at all the AI apps that I have, which I primarily use Claude, but just to kind of gauge, right?
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:51.280
Like yesterday I was using my tablet and there was up on the like next to the Wi-Fi thingy and the battery thingy, there was a symbol that I didn't know what the fuck it was.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.880
And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna check.
00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:04.800
So screenshot it and I circled the one symbol, and I put it into Grok, in the Chat GPT, and the Gemini, and a cloud, uh, and I just said, What is the symbol?
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:06.960
And the symbol I put was circled in red.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:12.239
And like half of them were like, That's a Wi-Fi symbol, which was not the one I circled.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.119
And I think which one was the dumbest?
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:20.480
I don't remember, but one of them was like, uh, are you interested in how to compute a screen?
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:23.760
Yeah, are you interested in putting how to put a red markup on a screenshot?
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:29.039
I'm like, it's just oh so dude.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:38.320
Well, oh um, by the way, terrible timing with this, but um this episode is sponsored in part by Heiko AI.
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:44.320
Oh boy the newest latest and greatest technology in AI advancement.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:58.559
Um for those of you who need a stepdad in your pocket at all times to tell you that you're doing a good job, be dismissive or maybe just try to act as though that they know what they're doing but not really know what they're doing.
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:00.880
Check out Heiko AI.
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:03.039
God damn it.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.199
That's Heiko AI.
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.320
Oh my god.
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:23.119
Now, you caught me as off guard with that as you did with initially the TLB thing, but only in the sense that I didn't know it was coming because you had talked about your your your your Heiko AI project.
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:24.480
Oh my god.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.599
Yeah.
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:27.360
Oh fuck me.
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:33.920
Uh so if you if you want to be a very good son, download Heiko AI.
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:41.360
With with Heiko AI's invasive technology.
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:47.840
All your grids and infrastructures are in perfectly good hand.
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:52.639
On that note, uh, it's time to punch out.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.920
Thank you all for joining.
