Saucy Scribes React, Recap, & Debrief: Sarah J Mass on Call Her Daddy

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Welcome to the Saucy Scribes Podcast.
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I'm Alex, your resident book psycho.
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I'm Allie, your aspiring author.
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And I'm Joe, the book bestie.
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Hello, Scribes.
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Today's episode is a little different because instead of talking dragons, mates, and morally gray men, we're discussing the woman behind the chaos.
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For years, Sarah J.
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Mass has largely let her books do the talking, dropping devastating plot twists, badass complex FMCs, and emotional damage across worlds like A Court of Thorns and Roses, Thorns of Glass, and Crescent City, then quietly disappearing back into the writing cave.
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But recently she emerged.
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She sat down with Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy Podcast and gave the internet something we rarely get from her.
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Unfiltered author lore.
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And naturally, the book world has absolutely spiraled.
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So today we're unpacking the interview, the revelations, the moments that made the fandom scream, and of course, the things that had us pausing the episode like, did she just confirm that?
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So pour yourself something strong, scribes.
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Perhaps a spicy margarita.
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Looking at you, Miss Mass.
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And because today's episode is part analysis, part fangirl spiral, and part literary tea, consider this your official warning.
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There will be spoilers for the Mass Verse ahead.
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But if you're ready to get into it, the mother has spoken and there's a lot to unpack.
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Yep.
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I mean, we just went to romanticy book con, all three of us.
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And so we've really been in our romance-disease zone as of late.
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And then we get confirmation that she's gonna be on Call Her Daddy.
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And then it comes out so fast after the confirmation.
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Yeah, it was so close that I honestly was like, is this real?
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Is this just a teaser?
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Is this like actually gonna happen?
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Yeah.
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I remember talking about it with my husband, and he was like, How do you know it's really gonna be her on the podcast if there's just rumors?
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And I was like, Well, Alex posted a video standing in front of a bookshelf with all of her books behind her.
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So I'm pretty I that pretty much is a confirmation for me.
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Like, look, we are slews.
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Do you think we wouldn't catch that?
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Come on, seriously.
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Facts.
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Yeah, I was genuinely so excited, especially once the teaser started coming out that Alex was doing the fast runoff and everything.
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I was like, oh my god, it's actually happening.
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I'm so excited.
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I'm gonna set an alarm.
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Like, so I'm gonna go ahead and take a second and make this all about me because it is my birth month.
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And so I initially was like, this is a birthday present for me.
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She knows.
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I mean, yes, that was my first thought when she said it was October 27th for the next book.
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I was like, happy birthday to me.
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Right.
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And then I find out that her birthday is a few days before mine.
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So yeah, it was day, right?
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Yeah, we're twins.
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Oh my gosh.
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We're twins.
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Well, Pisces twinies.
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What so why do we think that she chose call her daddy as the podcast to do this release?
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That's a good question.
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I think I think she was like, Who is a woman who will get me, get my books, who won't ask me stupid asinine questions?
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Yeah.
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I think also probably her friend group had something to do with it.
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To where they were like, no, she is so cool.
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She had to do her great podcast.
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Right.
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It's like this is who you need to do.
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Right.
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She's I mean it also sounds like based on like some of the first parts of the interview when she talked about her process with the TV show, that she's had some negative experience with people in the entertainment world who like don't get her stories.
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So I do think she really thought long and hard about who she wanted to interview her and who was gonna be the right person.
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For sure.
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Yeah, for sure.
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So if you guys could interview Miss Sarah J.
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Mass yourself, what is the first question that you would ask her?
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Oh god, I don't even know.
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That's like so much pressure.
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Oh my gosh.
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Um Okay, I've got a good one.
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Okay.
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So, what is one thing about the Mass Verse that fans haven't noticed yet, but absolutely should.
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I don't think she would answer that.
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She wouldn't answer it though, but I would have to.
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She probably wouldn't, but we'd want to know.
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Yeah.
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No, I don't think she'd answer that for sure.
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Definitely not.
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Because she's not, she's like, find your own Easter egg, right?
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But also, I feel like everybody does enough guessing and start deep dive.
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Honestly, some of the theories that have been out there on the interwebs have been insane to me.
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Like, where did you come up with that theory?
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Is what I think, right?
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Oh, yeah.
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And and I completely agree.
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And so I thought when I was watching the interview, I was like, okay, so we're on the right track because a lot of the stuff that she was mentioning, like we had already discussed or thought about.
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So I was like, okay, okay, we're not crazy.
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No, I felt very validated in a lot of aspects.
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I also felt validated because I do feel like she she spoke to a lot of my suspicions about where the next Avatar books were gonna go.
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And I felt very like, ooh, I feel like I could be right.
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Gold Star.
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Gold studies.
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Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm.
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So, yeah, I mean, let's talk about obviously the main point of this, the whole big announcement.
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The new Avatar books.
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Yes.
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October 27th, like I said, happy birthday to me.
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And then another volume following in January.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I mean, we all kind of suspected that she was going to be announcing Avatar 6, right?
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We would put money on that, okay?
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Yes.
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But the fact that she was like, oh no, you're getting another book.
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And it's so big that it's basically like two extra parts, but in January, only a couple months later.
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We don't even have to wait a whole year or half a year.
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I know.
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I wanted to cry out.
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Yeah.
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You also kind of feel like part three will come out like in April or something.
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Like, I don't think we're gonna have to wait long for part three either.
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I agree because she had even said, People have waited long enough.
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She's like, I don't want people to wait a super long time.
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And she gave that little hint that she's like, I'm on a deadline right now.
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So I'm like, Yeah, you are three.
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Yeah, you are.
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So, in case anybody missed it, the next releases are one massive narrative arc told in four parts, spread across multiple volumes because it was too long for one single book.
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I think she made a comment about glue not actually being able to hold the book together.
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Uh, we're getting a Bible.
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And I'm here for it.
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I'm here for it.
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I feel like this was like the literary Taylor Swift like massive flex of like, I'm gonna give a three-hour concert and everyone's gonna listen.
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I'm gonna write a four-part book and everyone's gonna read it.
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And we are.
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We're gonna read it.
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The way that I felt so satiated after this, I was just like, oh, it's so good.
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Thank you.
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So good.
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And all of her hints that she dropped about kind of where she was going with the story, I feel like we obviously have to dive into that.
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For me, I felt like she was totally telling us we were gonna get an Azrael Elaine story.
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That's where I felt like after listening.
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I don't know how you guys felt.
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I did, I did, honestly, because when the mates thing came up and they talked about Elaine and Lucian and like, is she going to announce her mateship?
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Um, you know, is that gonna happen?
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And she talked a lot about it also being choice.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Her her making her own story.
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No, I've always suspected that.
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Like when she started going that way in the last books, to me, I was like, oh, I bet she's totally gonna explore the freedom of choice and what happens when your mate isn't the person you love.
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Because I think we all kind of forget as readers that like Fayra and Reese and Cassie and Anesta are true mates, not just mates, which is a different thing.
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And she even says in the series multiple times, like Reese's parents were mates but didn't get along, so were Tamlin's parents.
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Like there are multiple examples where that was like actually not a good relationship, which means those people could have been finding their actual loves and it wasn't those people.
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And I feel like she's definitely gonna explore that here.
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Sorry for the people who want Azrael and um Gwyn to end up together.
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Or Azrael and Bryce, which was like the craziest theory of all time.
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I'm so glad she shot that down because as we've talked about on this podcast, it's just like crazy theory.
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That's insane, yeah.
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I don't even know where that came from.
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No, I mean I get I get where it came from because I mean I'm doing my CC3 reread right now.
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It's like the star sword brought her to Azrael, and people are like, they're mates, they're mates.
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And I'm like, that really doesn't it's like a knife, like a dagger and a sword.
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Like, calm down.
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Well, it's just it goes back to that thing too of people not believing her and Hunt are mates, but I'm so glad Sarah was like, um, no, Bryce and Hunt are endgame.
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Stop it.
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Yep.
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100%.
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And also to me, like, I am a person who I kind of did like the whole idea of Tamlin and Elaine ending up together.
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I thought was an interesting twist of like maybe he gets a redemption arc, and it would make sense that she ends up in the spring court.
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But after obviously listening to the interview and Sarah being like, oh no, Tamlin's a shit hit.
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I'm not giving him a redemption arc.
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It was like, oh, okay, so that theory is kind of off the table.
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So that means, yeah, I think Elaine and Asriel are the end game here.
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But also, that would be so awkward if she ends up with Tamlin and like Tamlin and Lucian are like besties.
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And oh hello, Tamlin used to fuck her sister.
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Yeah.
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Like, I thought that's where you were going with that.
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I definitely thought that's where you were going with that.
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I wiped the slate.
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There's that.
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Also, you know, on that note of like, I think this is gonna be an Azriel Lane story, I think it's gonna be more than that.
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I think it's gonna be more like Thrones of Glass where it's multiple stories going on at once.
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Because she did say something about like she couldn't tell us the POV of the book, which to me was like red flag of I think it's gonna be a crazy amount of POVs, and I think we're gonna get a Lucian story too.
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I hope so.
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Yeah, I think we're gonna get a happy ending for both of them, just away from each other.
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Like Lucian's gonna find his true love and she's gonna find her true love.
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And it's gonna be like mates who ended up not choosing each other, but both finding their true loves.
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That's what I kind of see happening.
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I hope that that happens for Lucian, because honestly, for he's been he's been enough.
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And and you know, they have him basically stationed somewhere else.
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So maybe he'll meet someone over there.
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Maybe he already has.
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Maybe he already has.
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Maybe he's our threpple.
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Maybe he's our thruple, guys.
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Girl, no, you have no idea my unhinged desire for that.
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Like, um, she has written, I don't know if you guys know this, but there was an Azrael, Cassian, and Nesta threesome in the original Silver Flames.
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So she has written scenes like that, and I feel like this is her, this was her chance of being like, I'm gonna do a thruple and give you those scenes.
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I feel like it's coming.
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I feel it.
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Azrael is freaky, he's quiet and freaky.
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She has said that Azrael is like the kinkiest of them all.
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And I cannot wait to see it.
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Cannot wait.
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Same.
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I also think, and I was talking about this with someone at RomanacyCon.
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I find it interesting that Nesta's book was only one book when we got Fayra's point of view for three books.
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So I could also see still getting a Nesta arc in this story as well, which is why I think she could have been like, This is not the way I thought this was gonna come out.
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I think it's gonna be like all of these POVs and all these things.
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Because that's how Thrones of Glass really was.
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It was all these things happening at once, all these love stories tingled together.
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It wasn't so like there's one story.
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Yeah, yeah, there was a lot going on.
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Yeah, so is Crescent City.
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Yeah, true.
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Definitely, definitely.
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Some of those stories I think we could have dropped, like Ethan, but you know, here we are.
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We'll talk about that next episode.
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K.
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Hall's story, K.
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Hall's story could have been a little shorter.
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Well, I actually really loved his story.
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Liked it, but it could have trimmed.
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Also, vindication that she said we could pronounce names however we want.
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I don't have to call her.
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When she said that, I thought she did call her Manon.
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Why not?
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But she gave me permission to call her Manon, and I'm here for it.
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She did.
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She did.
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She did.
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Yeah.
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I heard her.
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I loved her.
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I felt I felt you in the distance being like, ha ha.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Made me so happy.
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I mean, I feel like this is kind of obvious, but do we feel like the fandom's expectation had made writing the next Avatar harder on her for her?
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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I want to say yes, but at the same time, she seems like the kind of person that is like, this is for me.
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Like, I write for me.
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She does, but she also has anxiety.
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She talked a lot about how she's in therapy.
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And I feel like obviously anxious people care deeply about what people think of them or like how things are going.
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I think it's perception.
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She's constant conversation with herself.
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Yeah, of like being like, nope, don't give any fucks.
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Don't give any fucks.
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She's a Pisces.
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So yeah.
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Yeah.
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And she did mention how she needed to be in the right emotional headspace to write the story, which I think is so valid because when you have these characters pouring out of you, you need to be able to have enough personal availability in order to let those stories come through properly without it overtaking you.
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And I feel like that's probably a really delicate balance and not colluding your personal life with your book life as much.
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So talking about like how writing can be such an emotional process and you need to be in the right headspace.
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I mean, she talked a lot about the Fayra pregnancy storyline.
00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:58.320
And I'm so glad she was willing to talk about that and cleared that up for fans because it is something that people struggle with in Silver Frame Flames a lot.
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.320
It's like their one criticism of the book.
00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:00.559
Yeah.
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:02.960
Of like, I can't believe Rassanne did that to her.
00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.320
I can't believe that she wrote in this plot line.
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:19.679
And now hearing about it from her, really hearing where that came from and how personal that was, and how she was mimicking something that she felt was just it really night and day makes that whole plot line so different for readers.
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.759
Yeah, and also fuck that doctor.
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:23.519
Seriously, fuck that doctor.
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:24.320
Yeah.
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:32.000
I mean, just the fact that her new OB had to like walk out of the room when she saw her scars really tells you everything about what happened to her.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:40.399
And now it really makes sense that storyline of Fera not knowing what was happening to her body and what was going on and that she almost died, all of those things.
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:48.480
And obviously, in that world, Reese was the one not telling her, but it's like, you know, they didn't really have doctors in the same way that we do.
00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:50.159
So I kind of see where she went with that.
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:53.440
And I love too that she was like, I mean, Reese makes mistakes, he's not perfect.
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:53.759
Come on.
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:55.279
Yeah, I really like that as well.
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.919
And he was coming from a place of sincerity and wholesomeness, it wasn't manipulation.
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:00.480
Right.
00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:01.840
He didn't want to scare her.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:02.240
Yeah.
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:02.639
Yeah.
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:06.720
And for the people who were also like, I can't believe Farah already wanted to have a kid.
00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:08.159
They've been together for five minutes.
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:15.600
It's like, okay, or she was happy, and it's like, when you're really that happy with the person you love, why wouldn't you want to start that journey with them if you want kids?
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:16.159
Yeah.
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.279
She also started breadcoming that like two books prior.
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.039
So like it the plot was building in that sense.
00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.919
We're in a f we're on a fairy timeline, okay?
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:27.519
We are.
00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.360
Like it could have taken them a hundred years to get pregnant completely.
00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:36.559
Also in A Court of Silver Flames, she touches on Nesta's mental health journey.
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:38.799
And that also mirrors hers, too.
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:45.519
So I really feel like A Court of Silver Flames is probably a very therapeutic book in a way for her.
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:46.000
Yeah.
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.720
It seems like a lot of her emotional struggles really center around that book.
00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:52.240
And it's one of my favorite books.
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:56.559
Like I know people, some people really hate Nesta, but Silver Flames is like my favorite book.
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.000
I loved that book.
00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:58.720
I love that.
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:07.360
I mean, I know that at the very beginning of the book, I would had texted you, Alex, and I was just like, I don't, I still don't get the Nesta thing.
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:10.559
But by the end of the book, I was like, this is my favorite of all of these.
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:11.200
I love it.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:12.320
I want to reread it.
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:13.759
This is so good.
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:16.240
And it is such a beautiful art.
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:16.799
Yeah.
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.480
I think for some people, it's like that book is just pure character development.
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:29.759
And I think the people who are really reading it just for like fantasy, that's maybe the people who find that book a little like, this isn't my favorite.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.279
Because when you think about it, the plot line of that is kind of like almost like whatever.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.639
It's more about Nesta's arc than anything else.
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:37.200
Yeah.
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.039
That's like the meat of the book.
00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:41.120
But I feel like that's so important though.
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.200
It is, but that's not for everyone.
00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:44.000
You know what I mean?
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.519
Like, I think those people are the same people that don't like Iron Flame.
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:48.000
Yes.
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.039
I think those are the same people who don't like Iron Flame.
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.120
Because I mean it it's a building book.
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:53.840
It's the scaffold.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.080
Yeah.
00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:01.120
You know, people have to understand any good writing, like you have to have meat, you have to have substance, you have to build things, right?
00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:06.319
We're not just gonna be able to jump there with you without having first a foundation that's built.
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.559
So, like you know, Nesta, we really needed her to be redeemed.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:12.079
We were angry with her.
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:13.920
And I thought that she did it beautifully.
00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:25.200
She really helped us see Nesta as a person, what she was struggling with, her redeeming qualities, you know, how how she she could be saved through her her struggles.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:32.960
Yes, her own hard work, her own struggles, the demons that she battled every day and overcame eventually, and how she didn't give up.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:34.640
Yeah, and that it wasn't easy.
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.920
She didn't, it didn't just, you know, and then I found my mate.
00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:38.240
Yeah.
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:39.839
That's not what happened.
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.119
I actually like that she finds her mate as she's doing it.
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:43.440
Yeah.
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:44.799
And she almost ruins it.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:47.359
Like it's kind of like a really great mirror.
00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:49.519
It's really part.
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:49.920
Yeah.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.960
I do also really like the fact that Sarah J.
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:58.079
Mass, she does not do the easy relationship writing.
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.839
What if if that's even a trope, like she does not do that?
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:03.759
No, it's definitely a trope.
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:04.559
Is it?
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:06.720
I mean, it's not, but it's definitely.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:11.759
I've read a lot of romanticy books where it's like once they find out they're mates, the man is perfect.
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:17.440
There's no problems, he does everything right, their relationship's perfect, even though they've known each other for five minutes.
00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:19.519
It's like so unrealistic.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:20.720
Completely.
00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:23.920
I mean, and you look at Ailen, it's the same thing.
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:30.160
She it's messy, it's hard, it's struggles, it's beauty, but it's pain.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.759
And it's the same thing for Farah, it's the same thing for Bryce.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:43.759
Well I loved with the when she talked about Ailen and about uh Thrones of Glass, how Ailen had had so many boyfriends, like she had so many relationships.
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:50.720
And I remember when I was first reading it, I was telling Alex, like, dang, girl, she get she's getting around, she's just hopping around.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:19:01.039
It's also really and she talks about that, like, well, you know, I want her to have experiences, or I wanted her to to, you know, live life the way people live.
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:01.920
And I love that.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:09.440
And I thought it was kind of interesting because she herself says that her husband was her high school sweetheart, and he's the only person she's been with.
00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:10.079
Yeah.
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.440
But I like that she gave everyone else that opportunity.
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:15.039
Which I do love.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:25.440
And I think this was like the badass foresight she had of just like, I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want to do, is like most series nowadays, they want a hookie with the FMC right away.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:26.079
Like, right?
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:29.359
You're you're writing to hear about the tall, dark stranger.
00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:36.960
And so I don't think a lot of authors are having that foresight to think three steps ahead to be like, well, you might think this is a guy, but it's not really the guy.
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.440
And I'm gonna have this like girl like dating around.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.000
Mm-hmm.
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:47.200
It's actually Thrones of Glass, I think, is the only series I've read where she's had serious multiple relationships that aren't like a trick.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:48.079
They're not a trick.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.279
Yes, they're just like her.
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:50.880
There's no treachery above.
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:51.440
Yes.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.440
There's no like twist where it's like, oh, okay, he's actually the villain or something.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:56.000
Yeah, no.
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:56.640
Or she.
00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:04.000
Or she, yes, it's literally just like her figuring out who she is and who she wants to be with and who her partner could be.
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.799
And I think Thrones of Glass is really unique in that way.
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:12.960
And I think it's because Sarah, when she wrote down, sat down to write it, was just like, I know this is gonna be like seven books long.
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:14.640
I don't care if it ever gets published.
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:16.160
Like, this is my journey.
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.400
I'm gonna do whatever I want.
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:25.359
Whereas like most authors nowadays, even if they have been published, it's like, you know, their publisher is telling them, you need to release a book.
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:32.240
On this date, it needs to be three books long because that's how many books you're contracted for, and like things like that, that just like take that magic away.
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.319
Completely agreed.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:42.319
Well, speaking of the magic that creates the writing process, I loved how she was talking about the music that inspires her scenes.
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:48.400
I absolutely loved that she was listening to Florence the Machine, which love.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:55.279
But the funniest one to me, and is so relatable because it is constantly on in my house as well, is the K-pop Demon Hunters.
00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:55.920
100%.
00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:57.519
I laughed when I heard her say that.
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.279
I was like, oh yeah, welcome to my house too.
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:03.839
But also, I also feel like I am her where I play it more often than my son does.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:04.160
Yes.
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:04.559
Yes.
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.599
And he's kind of like, Mom, can we listen to Pirates of the Caribbean?
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:08.480
And I'm like, no.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.559
K-pop Demon Hunters is so much more fun.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.319
Guys, I don't have kids and I listen to it all the time.
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:16.799
Because it slaps, it's a great album.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:18.960
It's so good.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:25.440
Also, I am very curious about what song on the Batman soundtrack specifically she was into.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:32.000
Because she said she was listening into one on loop on Robert Pattinson's Batman, which is so random.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:33.039
So random.
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:33.759
I agree.
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.160
She had also brought up the Reese in Ferret Starfall.
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.640
And I was like, Alex is splooged.
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.200
She did.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:46.960
She didn't give me any hints about any theories about it, but it just made me happy that she like talked about it.
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:48.480
Completely agree.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:49.680
I was very excited.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.279
So, should we talk about the smuddy bits now?
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:55.200
Let's talk about the smuddy bits.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.759
I loved that she addressed the criticism within the community.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:15.440
Community, or perhaps even outside of the community, about how her books are just considered very smud, which I think we can all disagree that that's not the case because it's only like four percent of three of the books.
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.559
Yeah, I'm so tired of that narrative, honestly.
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:23.680
And you know, even like I took a day off of work to go to romanticy book con.
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:26.240
And I was like, I'm going to a book con.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.799
And everyone's like, Oh, what kind of book con?
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:33.440
But I'm like romantic, and you know, everyone always has an opinion.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:34.880
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:35.759
It is fantasy.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:36.400
Calm down.
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:37.200
It's fantasy.
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.400
I don't need I actually don't say romancy anymore.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:51.200
I say fantasy because it does have a negative connotation and does make people belittle it by being like, oh, she's into that fairy smut stuff when that's not what it is, at least to me.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:53.440
It's not what it is.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.559
And I am also tired of that narrative.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.160
And I'm here for Sarah being on the same page.
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:07.359
It's interesting when we were at BookCon, it we touched on it a little bit in one of the panels, and LJ Andrews was on that panel.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:14.319
And I kind of regret not standing up and asking this question, but I think it was like the one panel that we went to where they ran out of time for questions at the end.
00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:27.119
Because I remember last year at Romanticy BookCon, she had kind of said that she was grateful for the romanticy label because she's been writing romanticy for like over 10 years, that her books were always shelved in weird places.
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:28.799
Like there was no place for her books.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:32.480
They didn't know whether to put it under fantasy or romance or science fiction.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:33.680
It's like, what is this?
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.000
And so she was like really happy by that label.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.400
And I thought it was kind of weird last year, and now this year felt extra weird.
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:43.440
And it's funny because they started talking about it in this panel.
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:51.839
And I kind of wanted to see if her opinion has changed over the past year because now it's become quite like a rude term almost like a belittling.
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:53.519
So interesting.
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:55.039
Hmm.
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:55.440
Yeah.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:57.279
I am curious about that.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.359
The one panel, there was no time for questions.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:01.200
Just message her because I'm curious.
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:03.119
Send her a little private message.
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:08.160
I do think based off just what their conversation was on the panel, I do think her opinion probably has changed.
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.720
It's also just like, does a book need to fit in a hole for a shelf?
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:13.680
I don't think so.
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.680
Like, I mean, it's the boxes conversation, you know?
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.400
Yeah.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:24.559
You can't keep shoving people and books and things into very specific, like, niche boxes.
00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:25.839
I just don't think it works.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:32.079
Last year, the panel, the discussion was what's the difference between fantasy romance and romantic fantasy.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.000
And even last year I thought, like, oh, that's kind of an interesting topic.
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:38.319
But at the same time, isn't it all the same?
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.319
Do we have to get that detailed with it?
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:43.039
Like, let's just call it all fantasy and move on.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:43.599
Yeah.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.400
No, I actually agree with that assertion.
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:52.960
Because whether you're on a different planet or if you're in a cozy little cottage, like it's all, it's all fantasy.
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:54.160
It's all fantasy.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:01.119
And whether the romance is like super present in the story or it's like more of a background noise, it's like you're still in the fantasy genre.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:02.240
That's what you're writing.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:03.119
Right.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:11.119
I think like obviously when you're doing searches, if you're someone who's like, I really want to read a book with XYZ in it, that stuff comes into play of like what you're looking for.
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:15.599
But when we're talking about like bookshelves at Barnes and Noble, I don't think we need to be that nuanced here.
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:16.720
Like I agree.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.400
It just seems ridiculous.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:20.000
They talked about cozy.
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:20.799
Mm-hmm.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:22.079
Yeah, cozy fantasy.
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:24.000
Love this sub-genre, by the way.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:24.799
Me too.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:26.640
It's such a good palette cleanser.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:27.519
It's so relaxed.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:29.759
Right.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.160
No wars, no battles, but there's drama.
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.160
I mean, there is one in the background, but But you don't hear about it.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.759
No, it doesn't involve you.
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.920
And for those listening who don't know what cozy fantasy is, yeah.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:50.160
It's like it's happy fantasy where all the characters are just like joyful and there's a lot of baking usually involved and like plants.
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:53.920
Please check out the spell shop by Sarah Best Durst.
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:55.599
Or Enchanted Greenhouse.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:58.079
If you need a warm hug, read some cozy fantasy.
00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:59.440
It's all fantasy, okay?
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:00.880
It's all fantasy.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:03.119
Doesn't matter if it was written by a man or woman.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:04.480
Let's get with it, everyone.
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:05.440
Fit with me.
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:10.240
And additionally, we should not be ashamed of the steamy scenes.
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.119
We should not.
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:11.359
Oh.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:19.279
And it honestly pisses me off because you know, Game of Thrones especially gets so much like, oh my God, I love that show and like whatever.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:22.240
And to me, I'm like, well, I'm just reading that show.
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:33.119
And you you see Game of Thrones as like a work of art, but the book I'm reading that's exactly like Game of Thrones down to like this mutt and the fantasy is getting shit on there is getting shit on.
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:34.160
Exactly.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:41.119
I do love that she was so just forward and explicit, and she was like, it pisses me the fuck off.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:50.559
That anytime a woman writes something and there's even a little hint of sex that's not fade to black or artistically mentioned, it suddenly devalues the work.
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.319
And that's so fucked up.
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:52.960
I agree.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:53.440
I agree.
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:54.960
Men like sex too.
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:55.519
They do.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:10.640
And it's also back to that the media thing, too, of like when you see it done in like Oscar-winning films or like HBO shows, it's like, ooh, this is so racy and good, and like it's taking art to a new level because these actors are being so brave and whatever.
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:14.079
And it's like, okay, but you put it in a book and all of a sudden it's like means nothing.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.079
But but but there's a bigger story there.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.039
It's more so that women don't have the right to have pleasure.
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:19.519
Yeah.
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:25.680
Women don't get women don't get to outwardly be like, I like this, I deserve pleasure.
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:34.480
You know, it's like a grandfathered stigma from from the way back when times when women were there just to, you know, make babies and please men.
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:36.160
And it's about who's writing it.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:36.559
Yeah.
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:37.839
It's also about who's writing it.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:43.680
I mean, we all know there are very few women who have become directors and like big writers in books and film and TV.
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:45.119
So it's also that too.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:45.759
It's interesting.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.240
I've had this conversation with like two separate people now.
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.440
One was this guy who remained nameless.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.960
Um, we were at dinner one night and we were having a similar discussion.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.000
And we were actually talking about, I think, about Game of Thrones and how they really ruined Danny's character.
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:03.680
And it was like, God damn it.
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:13.519
Like men because it's made for the male gays, not for it's made for the male gays, and men do not know how to write female characters that like are aren't there to please please men.
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:14.079
Yeah.
00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:16.480
And he was like blown away.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:17.759
I had this opinion.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:21.440
He was like, Oh my gosh, like who do you think writes the best female characters then?
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:22.799
And I was like, females?
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.759
Like, how do you have to ask that question?
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.680
Like, you think a man can write a better female protagonist than a woman can?
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:33.200
That is mind-blowing to me.
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:39.519
And then I was telling this story to someone else who is a male, and he was like, Oh, really?
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:41.359
You think like men can't write women?
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.359
And I was like, doesn't mean they can't.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:46.480
Do they often write women who are accurate?
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:46.960
No.
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:59.920
No, no, and they haven't for a very, very long time, so long that you don't even realize that the women who act in these things that you see on TV and in movies, that's not how women actually act.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.519
It is how men want women to act, which is completely different.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.559
These are also the same people that don't understand how like Benedict Cumberbatch is hot or like Adam Driver.
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.119
They don't understand the female gaze, is the thing.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:23.039
I've seen Reese Witherspoon even talk about this exact same thing where she's like, Yeah, I would get offers all these roles where it's like the woman's just going around asking like the men, like, what should we do?
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:28.079
And she's like, in real life, never have I once turned to a man and been like, What should I do?
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:29.440
Yeah.
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:30.559
I love Reese.
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.799
While we're on the topic of movies and television shows.
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:36.799
Excellent segue, Allie.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.559
The Avatar TV adaptation, you guys.
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:47.440
Which also I feel like perfectly blends into this conversation because based on her comments, and I suspected this.
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.559
People asked my opinion, like, oh, why do you think they're not making that show?
00:29:50.720 --> 00:29:54.079
And I'm like, okay, I'm someone who's worked in entertainment for a very long time.
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:56.079
Entertainment's a very sexist industry.
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.839
It's one of the reasons I left.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:58.400
Yep.
00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:10.079
Um and it's it's such ingrained sexism that even men I worked with who considered themselves very woke and feminist were sexist on set because it's so ingrained into the way films are made.
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:11.680
Even the women can be.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.240
And even the women can be because they've been trained that way.
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.400
The titles of our department.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.200
Yes.
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:20.480
I mean, I could go on with this all day, but I won't.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:28.640
So my feeling has always been that the reason the TV show didn't go forward is when they announced a showrunner, it was like this middle-aged old white guy.
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:34.240
And when I saw that, I was like, that's an interesting choice for this series.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:41.279
And then when it it ended up getting dropped at Hulu and didn't move forward, I was like, hmm, I bet Sarah did not get along with him.
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:42.640
And I wonder why.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:43.759
Wonder why.
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:51.119
Yeah, not to say this is what happened, but I've always kind of thought, and based off her comments in this interview, I'm kind of like, I really bet that's what happened.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:51.519
Yeah.
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:57.279
I bet here comes a man who's worked in the industry for fucking ever, who's like, we need to do this, this, and this.
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:01.279
And he has a studio head who's also a man who's saying, we need to hit these points.
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:03.279
And she's like, No, you don't get it.
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.359
You don't get what the fans are gonna want to see.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.480
You don't get the the books or the series, and just no.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.039
Can we all agree that Margo's gonna do it?
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:17.279
I really hope she's like oh my god, but it also sounds like she's not letting anyone do it right now.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:21.440
So yeah, I mean, she said that she needs to find the perfect Reese.
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:23.839
And I'm like, does that person exist?
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:26.000
No, that person definitely does not exist.
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:27.839
We've tried, which we've tried.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:29.680
There's also no perfect Zaidan.
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:32.319
So I mean, I guess we'll see what happens.
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:33.359
TBD.
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:34.240
TBD.
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:40.319
I know all of the actors that people, you know, put forward as like, oh, it should be this person.
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:41.279
I'm like, where?
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:42.000
How?
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:42.960
How do you see that?
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:43.359
Yeah.
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:48.240
He's that man isn't even six feet tall, and and my man's is at least six five.
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:55.599
I will say, I do think if this was 10, 15 years ago, I feel like Orlando Bloom she would cast as resand.
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:57.519
Oh, uh yes.
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:01.519
She's like, if he dyed his hair dark, I'd be here for it.
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:02.799
I mean, listen, he is.
00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:06.160
Orlando Bloom is hot, and I think we can all agree on that.
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.160
He's always been hot, and he's still hot.
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.559
So I was a legolus girl.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:12.160
I was a legolus girl too.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:13.359
I totally get her fan fit.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.200
I was loving all the time.
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.079
I also love that she still has the cutout.
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:19.359
I love that.
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:21.440
I was like nerd of my own heart.
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.200
Nerds of my own heart.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:28.400
You know, she she also loves sharks, and I love sharks.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:29.279
And otters.
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:30.480
And Sailor Moon.
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.000
And Sailor Moon! She had a little bit of everything for all of us.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:35.920
Like we were all like me.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:36.319
That's me.
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:38.559
She's like, I mean, I used to do the same thing.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:43.839
I would run home from school, put my VHS in the recorder, and record Sailor Moon everything.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.079
Sailor Moon forever.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:49.440
Sailor Moon forever.
00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.640
That was our first like real girl-to-girl bonding, too.
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:53.519
I feel like Alex.
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:53.920
Yeah.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:56.720
I think I bought Allie a Luna backpack one year for her.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:57.200
You did.
00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:58.720
I actually still have it.
00:32:59.039 --> 00:32:59.759
Yeah, you do.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.920
I love that.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:09.039
During this same conversation, she did mention that she officially has the rights back to all of her books.
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:14.240
I don't know what the right term for that is, but basically all of her rights, which I think is really interesting.
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:15.839
Taylor Swift style.
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:17.440
Taylor Swift style.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:18.960
I can't wait to hear more about that.
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:21.279
She didn't dive super deep into it.
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:37.440
Well, she didn't dive into it at all, except for saying that she does have it now, which does also give me a lot of faith that whenever, if ever this ends up coming into fruition, it's going to be so good because she can be like, I'm sorry, this is mine.
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:39.200
And if I don't like it, it doesn't go.
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:39.680
That's right.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:40.079
Yeah.
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:46.000
And I think this came actually up on a romantic panel to talk about romantic con so much on this.
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:47.519
We're talking to tie-in, you guys.
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:47.920
Yeah.
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:50.960
Um, it did come up about like TV rights and things like that.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.200
I think this is actually the one panel I went to without you guys.
00:33:53.279 --> 00:34:03.839
Um, and how like TV and film with book creators, how that's evolved very, very recently back in the day, they pretty much wouldn't ask authors at all their opinion on adaptations.
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:14.400
And I think it's we're gonna see the tide turning because of Jenny Hahn and the Summer I Turn Pretty series really has like changed the game because that series has become so, so, so beloved.
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.280
And Jenny Hahn basically made that series.
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:18.719
Like she was in every room.
00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:24.880
She directed, I think, a few episodes, like she was fully, fully involved and it was so, so successful.
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:32.719
And I think that has really showed the industry that like you need to have the author there to tell you like what line does these fans want to hear?
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:33.840
What can't you take out?
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:35.280
What are they expecting from this?
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:35.760
Yeah.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:37.199
Because the author knows best.
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:42.239
They have people coming up to them all the time, being like, I love this moment, I love this part, I love these things.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:43.920
They're the most tied in.
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:44.400
Yeah.
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:45.440
So tied in.
00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:52.480
They know the things too that fans would be okay with, like, if you needed to change it to adapt it to TV and film.
00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:00.800
So I'm I'm really hopeful that in the future there's gonna be more of that, and then Sarah can come in and really be in control of what she's doing.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:01.360
Right.
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:08.800
Um, I think they talked about how Jenny had kind of opened the gateway for other writers in a sense when we were at RomancyCon.
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:09.760
That's really cool.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:10.400
Yeah.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.119
I mean, all the more reason for Margot to do it.
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.000
She's a fan too.
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:16.159
So Greta Gerwig is another one.
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.280
She she also is does some meaningful work.
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:24.320
She does, and I think she's like besties with Margot, so she's definitely read it too.
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.039
So, and she's also doing another book adaptation.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.960
She's doing the Chronicles of Narnia, so I think she would be a great person to.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:32.239
Oh, did you guys not know that?
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:32.960
I didn't know that.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:33.760
I didn't know that.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:36.079
Oh, it's coming out soon.
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:36.880
Wow.
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.800
This is like mate, and then like Meryl Streep is is the lion.
00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:45.920
Like, it's like full we need to talk about why you're withholding information from us.
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:46.880
I know, right.
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:48.559
This is all over the internet.
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:50.400
I'm withholding nothing.
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:50.800
Nothing.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:51.920
Google internet.
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:54.079
My internet is like full of large.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:56.480
My algorithm did not have that.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:56.960
Right.
00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:57.679
Google it.
00:35:57.760 --> 00:35:59.440
We have such different algorithms.
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:06.239
For those who don't know, Greta Gerwig right now is adapting Chronicles of Narnia for Netflix.
00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:09.039
And it is gonna be huge.
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:16.079
I think one of my favorite parts of the interview was when Alex was all of us and was just like rapid fire questions.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:20.000
Here's every meme, every thing I've seen on the internet.
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.079
I have to ask you all these questions.
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:23.360
She went deep too.
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:25.440
She did it a nail on the head.
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.440
I was like, you know what, Alex?
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:28.079
Like, you do.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.079
She's a real fan, real fan here.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:34.960
I mean, I absolutely love that one of the questions was what did Lorcan do?
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.960
Yeah, I was just like, Because that is like one of the best memes of all time.
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:44.320
But I also love that Sarah like didn't know what it was and someone had to explain it to her.
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:44.960
Yes.
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:46.000
That was funny.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:47.199
Which was very funny.
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:57.039
For those who don't also know, Lorcan, his relationship in Thrones of Glass is the only fade to black sex scene in all of Sarah J.
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:58.880
Mass's universes.
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:02.400
Which is why people always say, What did Lorcan do?
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:07.119
Funny because Sarah has actually kind of talked about this in previous interviews.
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:14.320
She has mentioned before that she feels very weird about showing an intimate moment where a woman loses her virginity.
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:18.400
Like she feels like it's like showing too much of an intimate moment to a character.
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:20.320
It's not that she doesn't think the reader can handle it.
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.800
She feels like it's like portraying the character, essentially.
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:23.920
I actually love that.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.400
It's probably she's a girls' girl.
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:33.519
She's a girls' girl, which is why that is the only sex scene that fades to black, because it's all the only character who loses her virginity in any of the series.
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:37.840
Um also loses her virginity and you don't see it either.
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.880
But it's it's less of like an obvious fate to black situation.
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:43.280
I mean, you know, you know what Lorcan did?
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:50.480
He handles it when she's gonna be like, 'cause that's Wait, but didn't she also say she was like, maybe there'll be a bonus chapter or something?
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:54.000
Yeah, she was like, maybe I'll like release it for Christmas or something.
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:55.840
And I was like, Yes, please, please.
00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:58.559
So maybe that'll be like the second time.
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:03.119
The sec, it's not the first, but it's the second time, and then we'll know what he's capable of.
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.039
Yes, give us Lorcan, please.
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.599
Give us more Lorcan Loken, please.
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:08.239
We love him.
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:10.880
Lorcan Loken, yes.
00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:12.320
Obsessed.
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:17.519
I love him because he made he made her um he made her strips of fabric for her her monthly.
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:19.119
I know that's my man.
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:21.119
And he's willing to do that.
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.639
That's the thing.
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.239
That's the thing, right?
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:28.960
Because it's like men don't understand that we just want to be seen.
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:33.360
And we want to be seen on a level of just like basic humanity, you know?
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:33.760
Yeah.
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:39.039
Well, I love that she was like, I want to know what happens when you're traveling to Mount Doom and you get your period.
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:44.480
And to me, that is her response is Lorcan cutting up strips of fabric.
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:51.199
Clothes, not just fabric of his shirt clothes, and he's like, My girl will not go without.
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:52.239
And I love that.
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:56.960
And and that's what women want because obviously it was so memorable that people still talk of people.
00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:58.960
I also just pictured in that scene.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:06.159
I know this is just like a silly little note, but like I just pictured his shirt continuously getting like shorter and shorter and shorter.
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:09.920
He got a crop top.
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:12.079
He's like having a crop top.
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.719
I'm imagining like this really thin, gauzy, like romanticy shirt.
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:21.920
I'm like, I don't know that that's holding much of anything, but okay, it's so sweet.
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:26.639
The other one that caught my ear, Alex, you literally just brought it up.
00:39:26.800 --> 00:39:26.960
Yeah.
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:27.920
Where did Vaughn go?
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:28.719
Where did Vaughn go?
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:29.280
Oh my god.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.760
And she was like, I think about that often.
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:34.639
And I'm like, So maybe questions.
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:36.480
We do too.
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:38.719
I think about Vaughn often.
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:40.000
That's funny.
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:41.119
Obsess.
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:49.119
Um, I know we also kind of already touched on it, but speaking of goodbye characters, uh, bye, Tamlin.
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:51.519
You're not getting your redemption arc, probably.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:52.400
We don't think.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.280
She did say she asked her friend, like, how would you feel about that?
00:39:55.360 --> 00:40:01.840
It does sound like she's like maybe toying with the idea, but I now that I've heard the interview, I'm kind of like, no, don't give Tamlin a redemption arc.
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:02.239
I agree.
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:03.599
Like, he doesn't deserve it.
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:22.639
Also, I think in terms of like so many people identifying him as the abuser, which he is, it's just like, no, I think it's actually more realistic for us to see somebody who is an abuser and someone who left that abuser, and that abuser having to sit their shit.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:23.199
Yeah.
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:25.599
You said it more eloquently than me, Joe.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:26.800
Consequences to your act.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:27.840
By tampon.
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:28.719
Yeah.
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:33.920
I love that every time I type out Tamlin in my phone, it autocorrects to tampon.
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:36.079
Dude, it did it to me the other night.
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.880
I started cracking up because I literally didn't mean to.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:41.199
I spelled out Tamlin and it switched to tampon.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:41.760
It said no.
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:43.199
And you're like, you know what?
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:43.760
You right.
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:44.320
You right.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.199
I was like, Yep, your phone said not in this house.
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:47.920
Yep.
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:48.880
Yep.
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.599
Also, you guys, Briaxis is a girl, and of course she is.
00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:54.960
Squealed.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:58.000
I and she dropped it so casually.
00:40:58.239 --> 00:40:58.719
Not so much.
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:00.079
And I was like, wait.
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:06.719
And I think the reason it's shocking is because the characters in the Avatar series call Briaxis a he.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:08.400
They assume it's a he.
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.079
So that's why we all assume it was a he.
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:13.920
I always thought it was a she.
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:14.639
Really?
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:15.280
I did.
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:15.840
I did.
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:17.920
I didn't even catch that they called it a he.
00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:18.639
I always have to.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.880
So here's a lot of reasoning why I caught it.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:28.960
Because that whole section of the castle is for a space of refuge women.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:29.599
Yeah.
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:29.920
Yeah.
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:30.480
For women.
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:31.440
She's in the bottom.
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:32.079
And she's in the city.
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:42.559
Okay, I will say I saw a theory literally today because of the interview that came out that someone had that Briaxis is Paul Tane from Thrones of Glass.
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:43.599
And I kind of love it.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:46.000
Okay, but that can't be.
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:46.400
Why?
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.039
Dorian summons her and she looks like her.
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:49.519
No.
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:56.480
So when she explodes herself to take out the castle, she's described actually as Briaxis is described in Akhtar.
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:04.480
They actually like they broke down, like they wrote out the actual paragraphs in their theory of the exact descriptions, and she's described almost exactly the same.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:06.960
I mean, she would mean refuge.
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:22.559
I don't know how she would have gotten there from the Thrones of Gloss world to Actar World, but I kind of like love that because it literally describes her like as she's like blowing up the castle to like take out everyone, that she like becomes fear, she becomes darkness, she becomes all these things.
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:25.440
And then when we meet Bryaxis, it's very similar description.
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:27.199
She's fear incarnate.
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:27.760
Yes.
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:31.199
And I'm kind of like obsessed with it being Caltain.
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:37.039
I mean, I wonder if maybe Sarah wrote Briaxis to honor Caltain.
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:37.840
You know what I mean?
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:39.920
But like it's not her, but it's not like actual.
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:40.559
Like the S.
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:41.280
Yeah, exactly.
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:42.400
Yeah, the S Caltain.
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:43.360
Yeah.
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.159
That's not everything has to be an actual crossover.
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:46.480
Right.
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:48.719
Like that would be a good question to ask her.
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:54.239
Like, hey, were you inspired by Caltain when you wrote, you know, Briaxis' character?
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:57.920
Because you said X, Y, and Z, and it sounds exactly like this.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.480
Like, where was your head when you wrote that?
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:01.119
Yeah.
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:02.800
That is a good question.
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:08.400
Speaking of bodies, the whole Cormac no body thing, I was like, no, he's dead, you guys.
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:10.559
Like, it's pretty well established that he's dead.
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:11.519
He's not coming back.
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:18.400
I agree, only because, too, we're doing our reread right now, and I feel like if he had survived, we would have seen him in CC three.
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:25.760
If it would feel very odd for him to then come back in CC four, where it's like he's been gone for like a thousand pages.
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:28.880
She also tied him up in a nice little bow.
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:30.559
Like his character feels done.
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:31.920
And also she laughed it off.
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:34.480
And his love of his life also died.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:36.239
It's like, who is he coming back for?
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:37.119
Yeah.
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:38.320
Not Bryce.
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:38.800
Yeah.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:43.440
It kind of like to me, the fact that he died felt very like he is now with Sophie.
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:44.159
It was his decision.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:44.880
And that's it.
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:47.199
It was his decision.
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:48.559
He's now with Sophie.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:53.840
They're together in like whatever afterlife we think that they might have together.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:55.360
And I think that's way better.
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:55.920
Yeah.
00:43:56.079 --> 00:43:56.639
I agree.
00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:58.559
I think it's a nice bow for that one.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.119
I agree.
00:43:59.280 --> 00:43:59.760
And she's not.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.199
Afraid to kill off characters.
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:03.039
Let's all remember Aiden's father.
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:06.320
She's not afraid to be like, no, this person's actually dead.
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:06.960
Mm-hmm.
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:08.400
Dorian's father.
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:08.800
Yeah.
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:10.159
A lot of dads die.
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:11.440
A lot of dads die.
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:12.480
A lot of dads die.
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.079
I wonder how her dad feels about that.
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:16.960
Manon is in therapy.
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:18.800
I love that for her.
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:20.639
I love that Manon is in therapy.
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:21.199
Mm-hmm.
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:22.480
She needs it.
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.360
So her and her and my man's could get back together?
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:27.599
I think that would actually be my number one question.
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:32.639
And I think she did ask it if Manan and Um Dorian were endgame.
00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:35.280
I want to know really what happened between them.
00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:36.159
I want that story.
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.480
And is she ever gonna write it?
00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:39.840
Are we ever gonna see it?
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:40.320
Yeah.
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:41.360
That would be my question.
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:44.000
Me.
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:45.440
I love Dorian.
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:47.280
I was like, Dorian's my favorite.
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.480
I was saying that sad that Aylen did not choose him, actually.
00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:53.199
He was my my number one choice from the beginning.
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:56.159
To be fair, they're technically related.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:56.559
Yeah.
00:44:57.760 --> 00:44:58.719
To be fair.
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:01.280
So I feel like it's a good thing she didn't choose him.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:04.559
I realize they're like generations removed related, but still it.
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:05.199
Yeah.
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:06.960
Once you know that information.
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:07.360
Yeah.
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:08.800
You can't unsee it.
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:09.599
You can't unsee it.
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:16.480
Like I know they're like a thousand years removed from like the people who related them, but I'm like, no, can't unsee it.
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:23.679
Another question that Alex had asked is Mama Arteron descended from the Iron Teeth Witches and Thrones of Glass.
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.519
And Sarah just skipped the question, left, and asked for a spicy margarita.
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:32.400
A woman after our own hearts.
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:33.840
I will say.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:35.280
That's not no.
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:36.559
It's not no.
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:42.960
And I did notice the theories that she's pretty much already addressed was the ones that she answered.
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:45.199
Like, you know, Bryce and Hunt.
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:46.880
That was something she straight up answered.
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:50.079
Because that was like an obvious okay, I just need to debunk this theory.
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:56.239
If it was something that was a crossover that she could explore in a future book, she was just like, ha ha ha ha ha, no.
00:45:56.719 --> 00:45:57.280
Yeah.
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.079
To where she's like, I don't know where that story is going yet.
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.559
So or she does and she doesn't want to tell us.
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.480
Because honestly, let's be real here.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:05.519
We all have these questions.
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:10.400
We would love to ask them of her, but if she really did ruin something that was coming out in the next book, would you be happy?
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:10.719
No.
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:11.119
No.
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:11.599
No.
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:19.280
Well, that's what was also so interesting about the more question, because I think we are gonna get a bit more of more in the next book.
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.239
So with the question, does she have more powers?
00:46:22.400 --> 00:46:23.599
Yeah, she does.
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:25.199
So it's more than truth.
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:27.920
She didn't even explain what the power of truth was.
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:32.239
So I think that's what Alex really was asking was like, no one understands what the power of truth is.
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:34.639
And she and she knew that's what she was asking her.
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:36.320
And she still was like, nah.
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:40.559
I felt like this interview was very satisfying.
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:41.039
I agree.
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:43.199
I was super satisfied.
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:44.960
I was super invested.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:45.840
I loved it.
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:53.280
It's interesting that I feel like the three of us really felt like she actually answered a lot in their interview and we're like, oh my God, she gave us so much good details.
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:59.119
But like my best friend Lindy was texting me as she was listening to it a few days later, and she was like, oh, this is so annoying.
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:00.239
She's dodging every question.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:01.599
I didn't feel like it dodged everyone.
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:03.199
I didn't feel like that at all.
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.599
Lindy, but I disagree.
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:06.960
Yeah, I completely disagree.
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.800
She made an example too about the writing process and how she was like, oh, this is so annoying.
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:12.000
She's like, it just came to me.
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:14.719
And I'm like, well, yeah, most writers, their stories just come to them.
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:15.599
What do you expect her to say?
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.599
I don't like I didn't totally understand.
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:18.960
I love you, Lindy, so much.
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:20.239
I don't mean to dog you on our property.
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:21.119
Yeah, Lindy.
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:23.599
Love you so much.
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:33.920
I really think that the reason why it felt satisfying to us, like our questions were answered, is because a lot of these theories we had come up with ourselves.
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.920
And so hearing her dodge them was an answer.
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:38.559
Uh-huh.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:38.960
Yeah.
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:41.760
That wasn't its perception.
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.679
And it's not even the theories when it comes to like the questions about her writing and stuff.
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:51.599
I think it is because I just came like from Romanice Con and I just listened to so many authors talk about their writing process.
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:54.159
Talking about all those types of things.
00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:00.639
I'm like, Sarah's answers were like very run-of-the-mill to me in that regard of like the similar things that they all talk about.
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:04.000
It didn't feel like she wasn't really answering the questions to me.
00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:08.559
I'm like, that's like how all of the authors have answered that I've ever seen talk on panels.
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:10.559
They're like, yeah, I don't know where I came up with this thing.
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:11.599
It just like popped my head.
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:14.239
You know, I thought it'd be cool if there were steam dragons in my story.
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:15.119
So I put it in there.
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:17.199
It's not like this like grand scheme of things.
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:21.199
Like, like, was Montana not enough of an answer?
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:29.039
At uh romantic con I especially went towards a lot of the writing workshops and stuff, aspiring author.
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:37.039
But one of the other things that I noticed as a parallel was she had said sometimes she'll let the character tell her where she's going.
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:39.519
And a lot of other authors said the same thing.
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:40.320
A hundred percent.
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:46.719
Because sometimes you think you know where you're going, but as you're developing the character, the character is building their own story.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:47.039
Right.
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:50.320
I was thinking the same thing.
00:48:50.480 --> 00:49:02.000
Hannah Nicole Mayer talks about that so so much because she has a slow burn series, and so a lot of the criticism from fans has been like, kiss already too slow, kiss already, and she's like, I try, try really hard.
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:04.000
They just won't do it, they won't listen to me.
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:05.280
They won't listen to me.
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.599
I want them to, but they just don't want to.
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:11.360
Like, yeah, it's really funny listening to her interviews.
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:11.920
Yeah.
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:18.719
She's like, I've tried, I've written these scenes, and they're just so awkward because I'm forcing it, and it's because I want them to do it, but they just won't do it.
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:19.599
Yeah.
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:21.199
But it's so true.
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:22.239
It's so true.
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:23.280
It is true.
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:24.800
I love creative people.
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:26.000
Me too.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:30.159
So fuck Mary Kill Reese Hunt or Rowan.
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:32.079
I know you guys have been thinking about it.
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:34.480
So where did you guys land on this?
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.360
Okay, so for me, it's kind of easy.
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:38.880
Okay, what's yours?
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:41.119
I mean, I would definitely marry Resand.
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:41.519
Duh.
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.400
Like hands down.
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:43.119
Duh.
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:43.599
Duh.
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:44.159
Yeah.
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.239
And I would fuck Rowan and Kill Hunt.
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:47.440
I said the same thing.
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:49.119
Wait, no, that's the same.
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:50.960
That is the right answer.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:52.159
We're hot.
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:53.360
We're triplets.
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:56.480
Like how you're like, that's the right answer.
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:03.599
I mean, in my opinion, somebody is probably like Hunt is the perfect husband, but like And good for them.
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:04.400
I love that for them.
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:09.679
He's just too much of like, in my mind, I always kind of imagine him as kind of like a frat bro.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:09.840
Yeah.
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:11.280
Like, that's just like not my vibe.
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:12.880
It's the backwards baseball cap.
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:14.480
Like the backward baseball cap.
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.599
And like he watches sunball, basketball shows.
00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:22.239
Yeah, I'm like, I don't think Rowan would make me watch Sunball.
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:23.599
No, and you know what?
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:26.719
I think it's wine and fun time.
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:27.519
Party.
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:30.320
And then Reese Sand is like the best one of them all.
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:32.400
So obviously I'd want to be stuck with him forever.
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:32.880
Yep.
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:35.119
Like he calls her Faith, darling.
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:36.320
Speak to me.
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:37.920
We don't ever have to fuck.
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:39.679
Like, just speak to me always.
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:40.559
A hundred percent.
00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:46.960
Like, like to me, Reese is like the partner you want by your side, who also you get to fuck, by the way, because you're married to them.
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:48.800
So like you get the boast of both.
00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:50.480
With or without wings, both.
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:50.960
Same.
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:53.280
In the sky, in the air.
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.360
I'm just thinking about it Romanacy Con.
00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:00.800
There was a panel where we were talking about like this or that tropes that it was all about smut.
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:05.039
And they started to run out of things of like, this or that would you choose?
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:06.639
And one was spit in your mouth.
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:08.000
And Joe like yelled out.
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:09.679
Ew, that's so gross.
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:14.800
But one of the the earlier there, so that's was vampire or werewolf, and we were talking about like shifters and stuff.
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:20.000
I've like this other girl at the con was like, so someone can't spit in your mouth, but you fuck a bat.
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:25.280
And I was like, not in animal form, not in bat form.
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:26.880
Sand is shifted.
00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:28.880
And then I said, that one I would do.
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:32.480
Resand shifted in the sky, in the air.
00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:36.000
Just with all my goodies out for the world to see.
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:37.039
You know?
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.559
I mean, how long were they up there doing that?
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:41.039
You know?
00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:42.159
Could you imagine taking your?
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:45.280
People had to lessen.
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:50.159
But also, that's us that's that's a testament to his grip.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:50.800
Oh.
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:52.079
For sure.
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:53.679
His grip.
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:55.760
So yes, Alex, we all agree with you.
00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:57.760
That's that is the correct answer.
00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:58.719
That's the correct answer.
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.199
I think I kind of feel like most people agree with that.
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:01.760
Yeah.
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:02.239
Yeah.
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:04.320
I think the real question is fuck Mary Kill.
00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:07.679
And it's like Dorian, Cole, and Sam.
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:08.000
K.
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:08.400
Hall?
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:08.800
Cole.
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:11.679
She said I can call him whatever I want, not calling him a vegetable.
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.199
But no one knows who that is.
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:15.280
So we're gonna say she calls K.O.
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:15.840
Cole.
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:16.159
Okay.
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:18.320
I am not the only one who does that.
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:20.079
They definitely know who I'm talking about.
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:21.679
Because it's KHL.
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:22.800
It's K Hall.
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:23.519
KL.
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:24.159
No.
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:26.079
I cannot with you.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:28.639
I refuse.
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:29.280
It's not a name.
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:30.159
Oh my god.
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:30.480
Okay.
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:31.519
Who are the names?
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:32.000
Sorry.
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:33.840
Let me let me get my brain back.
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:35.039
Dorian.
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:35.760
Yeah.
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:39.280
Kay Kayle and Sam.
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:41.599
Oh, we're gonna marry Dorian.
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:44.159
We're gonna fuck Sam and we're gonna kill Kayle.
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.360
Yeah, that's the correct answer.
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:46.079
I agree with that.
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:47.119
That is the correct answer.
00:52:47.280 --> 00:52:47.679
I agree.
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:48.960
That's the correct answer.
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:49.519
Yeah.
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:50.320
This is fun.
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:50.880
Do more.
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:51.280
Do more.
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:51.519
Yeah.
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:52.000
This is fun.
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:52.800
Wait, okay.
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:58.880
So now we have to now we have to do Lucian, Azrael and Cassian.
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:00.079
Oh, yeah.
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:02.320
Oh Mary Cassian.
00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:02.639
No.
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:04.000
I was marrying Cassian.
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:05.280
Mary and Cassian.
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:05.840
Fuck Ezra.
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:08.559
I'm fucking Azrael and killing Lucian.
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:13.760
Listen, as much as I love Azrael, he's a little too guarded and closed off for me.
00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:16.880
I need more communication and someone who's willing to meet me and be there.
00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:17.840
Yeah, that's a fuck.
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:18.480
That's a fuck.
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.760
And he's a freak in the sheets.
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:20.559
He's definitely the fuck.
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:24.480
I think the freak in the sheets! And and he'll defend his queen.
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.559
But definitely we're killing Lucian.
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.159
Hilarious one now.
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.519
Because this is gonna be almost hard to choose in the opposite way.
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:32.159
Okay.
00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:33.119
Ethan.
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:35.679
Oh just gonna say that! Tharian.
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:36.239
Okay.
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.679
And Rune.
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:41.280
Okay, oh Rune.
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:43.039
Um Marrying Rune.
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:43.840
Marrying Rune.
00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:45.360
Easily we're marrying Rune.
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:46.320
Therian.
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:48.639
Killing Freaky and killing Ethan.
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:48.800
Yeah.
00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:49.280
100%.
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:50.239
I agree with that.
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:50.880
I agree with that.
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:57.039
But Therian cannot be on his uh his venom high when we're doing it, cuz I need him to focus.
00:53:57.519 --> 00:53:59.519
Yeah, I think he's sober now.
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.400
I really I'm really hoping he has a redemption art, guys.
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:06.079
He's killing me right now.
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:06.719
Okay.
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:08.880
Let's not do rune instead.
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:12.559
We've got Ethan, Tamlin, and Therian.
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:13.519
Oh god.
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.800
We're still killing Tamlin.
00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:18.079
Are we now marrying?
00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:22.239
I'm gonna marry Ethan, still fuck Therian, and I'm gonna kill Tamlin.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:25.119
I think I would rather marry Therian.
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:26.239
I don't know, man.
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:28.800
He's uh he's a womanizer.
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:30.239
I I he wouldn't be faithful.
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.000
At least Ethan tries, even though he's terrible at trying.
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:36.880
Okay, you're making a defense for Ethan.
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:38.400
I know, but at least he tried to.
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:40.159
That's why you had to do a hard one.
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:41.440
I gave you a really hard one.
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:43.119
Yeah, that was a very hard one.
00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:45.599
I I think we gotta kill Tamlin for sure.
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:46.960
We definitely have to kill Tamlin.
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:48.320
That's the right answer.
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:49.199
He's dead.
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:50.639
Yeah, that's the right answer.
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:51.440
Lock me in a house.
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.039
Yeah, because Therian, he's the better fuck, probably.
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:55.519
Yeah.
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:59.679
So Ethan is the more wholesome and stupid one.
00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:00.639
But he does try.
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:01.199
Stupid.
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:03.599
But he's he's gonna be the better husband.
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:03.920
Yeah.
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:05.440
He would be shockingly.
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:05.760
Yeah.
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:07.360
Superman complex.
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:08.079
You're welcome.
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:09.280
That was a rough one.
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:10.159
That was a rough one.
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:10.639
It was.
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:12.559
I had to give you a true rough one.
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:13.440
You did.
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:19.440
I will say I do love when she said that, like, I see someone reading my book and I'm like, hi.
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:22.800
Like I just think that's like so endearing.
00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:23.679
Thank you.
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:24.400
I love it.
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:25.440
That's so sweet.
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:26.159
I loved it.
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:29.599
Well, scribes, that is our debrief of the Sarah J.
00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:31.920
Mass interview on Call Her Daddy.
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:40.000
Whether you came for the Avatar news, the writing insights, or just to further drool over the mother herself spilling a little author tea.
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:43.440
We hope you had as much fun unpacking it with us as we did.
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:47.360
And if you're not ready to leave the mass first just yet, you're in luck.
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:52.559
Our latest episode is live right now, where we're breaking down Crescent City, House of Sky and Breath.
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:56.880
All the chaos, revelations, and absolutely feral plot twists included.
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:04.639
And next month, we're continuing the spiral with Crescent City, House of Flame and Shadow, where things somehow get even wilder.
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:06.880
So make sure you're following the podcast.
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.360
Leave us a rating if you're enjoying the show.
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:14.880
And send this episode to your favorite book, Bestie, who also has opinions about the Mass Verse.
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:21.679
Keep the theories wild, the drinks strong, and remember some stories are best unpacked with a little chaos and a cocktail.
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:25.519
Until next time, Saucy Scraps vibes out.
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:26.639
Love you guys.