00:00:00
Speaker 1: We're going to talk a little bit more about this suspected case of plague linked to the Russian laboratory because it is raising questions about just how safely the world handles its most dangerous pathogen. Here is the latest from the World Health Organization.
00:00:14
Speaker 2: The WHO initial risk assessment from the information available estimates that the risk to be moderate to low for Irkutsk, a low risk for the Russian Federation as a whole, and very low for the WHO European region.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: But could it happen again and only in Russia? And what about closer to home? New Zealand has its own high containment facilities used to diagnose and research serious infectious diseases under strict controls. Professor Nigel French from the Massey University, who is an infectious diseases expert, is with us this morning. Good morning to you, Nigel. I had just assumed that plague was something that was last present in the Middle Ages. Is it particularly concerning to hear about this one potential case coming from a laboratory?
00:01:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the situation is very different now to the Middle Ages. Obviously, we've got much better ways of controlling infectious diseases. Hygiene is much better. We have antibiotics available, which can be used to treat these kinds of infections. So the threat to the population of a major epidemic or even pandemic is a lot, lot lower than it used to be in the Middle Ages, obviously.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: That said, if it's coming out of a lab, do we have some question marks or raised eyebrows about that, about the controls that are in place or whether more nefarious activities are going on?
00:01:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I was surprised. I mean, for one thing, that the Russian authorities haven't confirmed that this is actually pneumonic plague caused by Eosinia pestis, but we do know the laboratory was researching that particular bacteria. So I think there is a bit of a concern around this, but it's worth saying that laboratories around the world handling this particular pathogen would have very, very high containment facilities. the highest possible level or category four containment, which is the one that's used to handle bugs like Ebola and Marburg and all the really, really nasty hemorrhagic beefers. So these places have really good systems for managing ventilation, personal protective equipment, the workers in the laboratories. So it's really surprising that this individual worker is working. suspected of having come into contact with this particular pathogen.
00:02:56
Speaker 1: What is it that you are looking for as to how this develops that would give you cause for concern? Is it that if anyone else in the lab became infected, something else?
00:03:10
Speaker 3: No, I think it would be evidence of secondary spread. So if this particular individual is the first case, I know they're monitoring around 200 other people that came into contact with them in the laboratory and possibly in the hospital where the case was managed as well. So I think that's one thing is if there was evidence of secondary spread, then it would be concerning. But as the WHO said, I think it's more concerning for the local area in Russia and not globally concerning like some of the other major outbreaks and obviously the COVID pandemic. So I think it has a much lower rate of transmission. So it's only just above one person infected for every other person, whereas COVID was around four to five initially. So the rate of spread is likely to be a lot lower, but it's a high consequence illness. So as we've shown from this case, the fatality risk is very high if you're infected and you're not treated very, very promptly.
00:04:13
Speaker 1: But it is something... that could be treated with antibiotics as long as you know that that's what you're treating?
00:04:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes antibiotics will be given preemptively to people that have come into contact with a case like this because even with the use of antibiotics, there's still, I think, a roughly 10% fatality risk. Without prompt antibiotic treatment, it's up near 100%. So again, it's a low-risk but high-consequence disease.
00:04:42
Speaker 2: Sounds horrific.
00:04:43
Speaker 1: We appreciate your time and your expertise this morning. That is Massey University infectious diseases expert, Professor Nigel French.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk a little bit more about this suspected case of plague linked to the Russian laboratory because it is raising questions about just how safely the world handles its most dangerous pathogen. Here is the latest from the World Health Organization.
00:00:14
Speaker 2: The WHO initial risk assessment from the information available estimates that the risk to be moderate to low for Irkutsk, a low risk for the Russian Federation as a whole, and very low for the WHO European region.
00:00:32
Speaker 1: But could it happen again and only in Russia? And what about closer to home? New Zealand has its own high containment facilities used to diagnose and research serious infectious diseases under strict controls. Professor Nigel French from the Massey University, who is an infectious diseases expert, is with us this morning. Good morning to you, Nigel. I had just assumed that plague was something that was last present in the Middle Ages. Is it particularly concerning to hear about this one potential case coming from a laboratory?
00:01:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the situation is very different now to the Middle Ages. Obviously, we've got much better ways of controlling infectious diseases. Hygiene is much better. We have antibiotics available, which can be used to treat these kinds of infections. So the threat to the population of a major epidemic or even pandemic is a lot, lot lower than it used to be in the Middle Ages, obviously.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: That said, if it's coming out of a lab, do we have some question marks or raised eyebrows about that, about the controls that are in place or whether more nefarious activities are going on?
00:01:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I was surprised. I mean, for one thing, that the Russian authorities haven't confirmed that this is actually pneumonic plague caused by Eosinia pestis, but we do know the laboratory was researching that particular bacteria. So I think there is a bit of a concern around this, but it's worth saying that laboratories around the world handling this particular pathogen would have very, very high containment facilities. the highest possible level or category four containment, which is the one that's used to handle bugs like Ebola and Marburg and all the really, really nasty hemorrhagic beefers. So these places have really good systems for managing ventilation, personal protective equipment, the workers in the laboratories. So it's really surprising that this individual worker is working. suspected of having come into contact with this particular pathogen.
00:02:56
Speaker 1: What is it that you are looking for as to how this develops that would give you cause for concern? Is it that if anyone else in the lab became infected, something else?
00:03:10
Speaker 3: No, I think it would be evidence of secondary spread. So if this particular individual is the first case, I know they're monitoring around 200 other people that came into contact with them in the laboratory and possibly in the hospital where the case was managed as well. So I think that's one thing is if there was evidence of secondary spread, then it would be concerning. But as the WHO said, I think it's more concerning for the local area in Russia and not globally concerning like some of the other major outbreaks and obviously the COVID pandemic. So I think it has a much lower rate of transmission. So it's only just above one person infected for every other person, whereas COVID was around four to five initially. So the rate of spread is likely to be a lot lower, but it's a high consequence illness. So as we've shown from this case, the fatality risk is very high if you're infected and you're not treated very, very promptly.
00:04:13
Speaker 1: But it is something... that could be treated with antibiotics as long as you know that that's what you're treating?
00:04:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes antibiotics will be given preemptively to people that have come into contact with a case like this because even with the use of antibiotics, there's still, I think, a roughly 10% fatality risk. Without prompt antibiotic treatment, it's up near 100%. So again, it's a low-risk but high-consequence disease.
00:04:42
Speaker 2: Sounds horrific.
00:04:43
Speaker 1: We appreciate your time and your expertise this morning. That is Massey University infectious diseases expert, Professor Nigel French.
