470: Your First Ultramarathon

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Have you ever thought about running an ultramarathon, but you're just not sure where to start?
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Because if so, the next couple of episodes are for you.
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Even if you've never considered running an ultra or if you maybe have it as a far-out goal, we're gonna be talking about running your first ultramarathon.
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So this is gonna be great for you.
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If you're thinking about this, maybe this will open up a possibility for you that you didn't even think was there, before you listened.
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And it's also going to be for you if you are helping to crew someone else's ultramarathon.
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So we're gonna be doing a series.
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Today is episode one of two.
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We're gonna be talking about you as the runner and how to complete your first ultramarathon.
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If you are a seasoned ultrarunner, I'm sure that you can get some good nuggets of information from this too.
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And then in part two, we're going into how to crew an ultramarathon.
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So stay tuned.
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What's up, runners?
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Welcome to the show today.
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We are talking all about ultras, because this is a big thing that has been a part of Kevin's journey.
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and we've gotten a lot of questions over the years since Kevin has started this whole ultramarathon journey of his.
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let's kinda start off, Kev, with a little bit of a history.
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I know that this episode is gonna be a lot of Kevin, because he is the one that has run the ultramarathon, so we're gonna be getting a lot of perspective from him.
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And I will, of course- It'll make it one of my
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favorite episodes.
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Yeah.
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So I, of course, am going to offer all sorts of things as well, but let's start off with a little bit of history.
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So Kevin started, Kevin ran his first ultramarathon at the end of 2020.
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Correct?
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In 2020.
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It was a COVID ultra.
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COVID ultra.
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So tell us, why did you even want to do this?
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What was going through your head?
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I think that we all know what we were experiencing during the l- time of COVID, but, w- how did you kinda make that shift over into ultramarathoning?
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I think a lot of people made weird, fitness health journey shifts during COVID-
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Yeah
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because you, you could.
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there was just-
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because there were no other races available, right?
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So you kinda had to make up your own stuff.
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races got canceled, then people started doing virtual races.
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Yeah.
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It somehow stuck around, which I find an interesting, add-on from- Yeah from that time.
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But,
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you know- you, they always say runners will run for medals and bananas, so-
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That's
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true if you do a, if you do a virtual race, as long as you pay the fee, they'll send you the medal.
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But they won't send you a, a cold, awkward half a banana, Thank
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God.
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back in 2020 it was like, we i- in Real Life Runners had, were having the campaign around the slogan of Run Your Life.
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And it was like, what would you do if all the races disappeared, would you still run?
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Yeah.
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And it's yeah, I'd still run.
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Running's so much of who I am.
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but I'd still wanna compete.
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Yeah.
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And if I couldn't compete against other people in, a formal race setting, what would I do?
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And it just, it opens up so much curiosity if every, all the dynamics of what you currently are doing get flipped on their head, then what do you do?
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And I think it just really opened up t- to I'd see how far I could go.
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Yeah.
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Because seeing how fast you can go is, it's interesting, and I played that game for a while.
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seeing who you can beat is interesting.
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I played that game for a while.
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But then I got to a point where it was like I wondered just how far I could go.
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Yeah.
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And ultras have always been a thing in my head since childhood.
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m- my neighbor across the street, two doors down, he ran Western States when I was a kid.
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before there was a lottery to get in.
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back- Yeah when you could just, drive up and be like,"Yeah, I'm gonna run this race."
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So funny.
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Yeah, so if you guys want more of Kevin's background specifically, we've done episodes in the past around Kevin's 100-mile journey.
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But today we really f- want to focus more on you.
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There's also, you can gain a lot of really great information from those episodes as well.
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But we really wanted to make this one kind of a guidebook in a way, to help you decide, number one, if an ultramarathon is actually what you wanna do, because like we're about to talk about, it, you have to be very clear that this is what you want to do.
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There's not really a lot of question marks, because the training and everything that goes into it, and then of course the race itself requires a level of commitment and dedication that a lot of other race distances don't.
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So you really have to build your lifestyle around this ultramarathon.
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So that's a spoiler alert, that we're gonna talk more about in today's episode.
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But where do you wanna start us off today, Kev?
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Because I think that it's important that when we, w- if someone is listening to this, an ultramarathon can be a huge goal for runners, and I'm really excited that there's a lot more talk about ultramarathons than there ever have befo- been before.
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Because I think a lot of runners, when they think about running, they think about road races, and there's a lot of runners out there that the road race just doesn't appeal to them, and I'm one of those.
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And I feel myself moving more into this trail.
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And I've said before on the podcast, and Kevin has pointed this out before too, I think that I would be much more inclined to do a trail ultramarathon before I have a desire to run a road marathon because there's just a different level of kind of everything involved in it.
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I think the whole- Yes culture of it is different.
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so if this is something that you're interested in, we, we hope that today will be that instruction manual to help you on your way.
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I think that it's very interesting there'cause even if this is not something that you're like,"Oh yeah, I definitely wanna do an ultra"- Yeah if there's any inkling of maybe- it's a possibility.
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there, there are definitely people that are listening right now that are like, that kinda sounds interesting, but I could never." And you probably can.
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Yeah.
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it's just a matter of how you approach it.
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It's finding the right race.
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It's finding the right race environment.
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Yeah.
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It's finding a training plan that's gonna work for you.
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there's
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a, there's a whole lot of ways to do it.
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I am how far can I go, but I still always have that, and how fast can I do it?
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that's always sitting in my head.
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And there are people, plenty of people in the ultras that I've done, that their pure goal is getting to the finish line before the final cutoff.
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Yeah.
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it's really much more of a how far can I go?
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And- I
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mean, even one of your friends that helped inspire your journey into the ultramarathon world, that was always his goal, too, was just finishing by the cutoff.
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I think he was the last person to cross the line in a couple of the races that he's done.
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Yeah.
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And that's fantastic.
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That is a lot of hours out there- just continuing to propel yourself forward.
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Yeah.
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And, I think-
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Which is a whole different level of preparation and endurance than even you.
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Yes.
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you run 100 miles, but you do that in, 18 to 21 hours.
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That's much different than someone that's out there for 32 hours.
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Yeah, it's good timing on this thing.
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we are in, professional ultra running.
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we're in, the highlight season right now- Yeah'cause we had Western States was a couple of weeks ago, and then, Hard Rock was last weekend, and then in three weeks, I think, is UTMB over in Europe.
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So we'll-
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Badwater's this week too, isn't it?
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Badwater is in two weeks?
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Oh, okay.
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it's in July
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I, for some re- I think it's late this year.
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Oh, okay.
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'Cause I was gonna say, one of the reasons I even know when Badro- Water is'cause it's usually around your birthday, because one of our old cross country runners, her dad has run the race multiple times, and she always had to crew him on her birthday.
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Yes.
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And her birthday's today.
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Yes.
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So it popped up on my Facebook feed.
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Yeah.
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But I think it's, I think it's late this year.
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I don't think it's next weekend.
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I think it might even- Yeah be the weekend after.
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Yeah, so really we want all of you to keep an open mind in this episode.
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So even if you've never thought about doing an ultra, if you even have, a little question mark of,"I wonder if I could," or,"Maybe that could be interesting," just listen with an open mind.
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And I think that this world is really open to a lot more people than realize that this is something that could be possible for them.
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No, this is definitely a bigger funnel than people would suggest.
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I don't know.
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there's only a small sliver of the running population that could even do it.
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No, it's- it's a lot bigger than people might think.
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Yeah.
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but-
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I think it's bigger than people might think, and I think that it just is one of those things that requires a lifestyle change.
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Because I think that if you choose to become an ultra runner, there's so much outside of running that needs to really be considered, as with running at the forefront, right?
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the, your sleep and your nutrition, and, that is important no matter what distance you're running, of course.
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It becomes even more important as those distances get longer.
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Yeah, no, 100%.
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so I think one of the places that I wanna start this is simply why.
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Ah.
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Why in the world would you possibly do this?
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Yeah.
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but not exactly,"What, are you out of your mind?" But specifically- why are you considering doing this- is a question that you need to have the answer to.
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And I've asked you this question many times.
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And probab-
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you probably need a few answers, quite
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frankly.
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Yeah.
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because it, and you need to have, firm resolve in them, because after- several hours of running, your first reason may not work anymore.
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And it may work again later in the run, but- Yeah maybe for a little while you need another reason.
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And I'm just gonna grit through it.
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I wanna do it to prove to myself I can cross a finish line.
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The finish line does not matter that much when you're, say, six hours in and expecting another six to 10 hours to go.
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Let alone some of these races where you're like, you're 12 hours in and expecting- Yeah another 24 hours to go.
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the excitement of a finish line, a picture that you can post on Instagram-
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Yeah
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a shiny buckle, these are not things that are going to inspire you to keep going for the next- many hours.
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There has to be something more than, I'm gonna upload it to Strava and I can- I'm gonna get some kudos." that's just, it needs to be a lot bigger than that.
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Yeah.
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And I think that you need more than one.
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Definitely.
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I would agree with that.
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And I think that reason is also allowed to change as you continue on your journey as well.
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Because I ask Kevin that question every single time he decides to sign up for an ultramarathon.
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what do you, what's the goal?
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Why are you doing it this time?" And it's not to criticize or make him second-guess himself in any way, it's to help him realize what is the reason, because the first time he ran it, it was to see if I can.
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And now he's proven to himself three times that he can, because he's finished three 100-mile races.
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So now what?
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Now why are you continuing to do this?
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Because those reasons may evolve as you continue on your journey as well.
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Yeah.
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And I'm sure this one's gonna come back again on the next episode, but it's super important that you ask me that question- and that I clarify it to you.
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Because- Yeah,
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as the crew chief, right?
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Because-
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As, yes, as my crew chief
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not as j- as his wife.
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I need to know that as his wife, of course, but I think I also really need to know it as the crew chief, and we are gonna be talking more about my perspective as a crew chief.
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If you want to crew an ultra race or be a crew chief yourself for someone that you like or l- that you love, what that entails and- As
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the race goes on, sometimes it's or love or dislike.
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it varies.
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Yeah.
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Hours pass.
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but it's important for me to know that so that I can remind him of that as well.
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Yeah,'cause honestly, when everything hurts and you're so thirsty and you're so hungry and nauseous and things are cramping up- sometimes you forget the point.
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Yeah.
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And, you get to a point where you're like, you're gritting through, you've just been grinding for the last- hour.
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Yeah.
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And you get to the aid station and see your crew chief, it's nice when you're in a real dark place for them to remind you,"Hey, remember you paid several hundred dollars for this.""This was your reasoning behind it." Yeah.
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Okay?
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Because, you need that refresher.
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It's- it's helpful.
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sh- she just ran Western States and then two weeks later ran Hardrock.
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She has on, as a tattoo on her thigh so that she can look down and see the message to herself, it says,"Suffer well."
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Ooh.
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That's her why, of n- I'm not purposely just putting myself in this painful place.
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I'm seeing how I respond- in it.
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Yeah.
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It doesn't say suffer.
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It says suffer well.
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don't just be out here and be all grumpy.
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no one wants that.
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That's super annoying.
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Suffer well.
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You put yourself in a super challenging thing- to see what comes up.
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Yeah.
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Hopefully you enj- you like what comes up.
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And I think that's one of the things that keeps me coming back is I didn't like what came up last time.
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I wanna try and change that.
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I wanna see how good of a person I can be in very physically and mentally difficult situations.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, because it definitely exposes all of that, for sure.
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And I have not done it myself, but I've seen that happen both in you and the other spectators that I have seen on the courses.
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I think the other really important thing to understand with ultras is that you need to enjoy what is required to get you to the starting line.
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You have to enjoy the process when it comes to ultras because just like Kevin said, the shiny belt buckle, the finish line, that post on Strava or on Instagram, that's not gonna be enough to get you through 12, 20, 30 hours of running.
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You have to enjoy the process that it takes to get there, and that goes back also to Starting to build your lifestyle around it.
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And I think that it, when you go into ultramarathons, that does become a very large piece of your life.
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I don't think it's healthy to build your entire life around it, to build your entire life around any one thing.
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I think that's, it's still just a part of your life.
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It's a part of who you are.
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But in order to successfully accomplish an ultramarathon, so much of your life has to be directed toward that goal.
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So it's going to be really important that you enjoy the process, because it's going to take a lot for you to get there.
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Yeah, this is the same case with any huge undertaking.
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this doesn't have to be an ultramarathon.
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changing jobs, starting a business-
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Totally
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starting a new...
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anything that is a huge challenge- that you don't really know how this is gonna play out.
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Yeah.
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You have to redesign a, at least a chunk of your life around this.
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And, like you said, it, you shouldn't put your entire life,'cause that just puts you in, a super fragile place.
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Like- if your entire life is designed around ultrarunning and you- Yeah get hurt, now what are you gonna do?
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Exactly.
00:15:04.163 --> 00:15:07.803
that, that's just a quick spiral into depression- because suddenly you've lost your entire identity.
00:15:08.114 --> 00:15:13.254
But with most things, you have to always be thinking.
00:15:13.303 --> 00:15:19.423
I ran really long yesterday, and even today I still have to think about that and then I had an off day today.
00:15:19.604 --> 00:15:24.464
But I'm still thinking about making sure I have enough food going into my body based- Yeah on what I did yesterday and what I plan on doing tomorrow.
00:15:24.543 --> 00:15:27.803
I'm perpetually considering various food-
00:15:28.114 --> 00:15:28.443
Yeah
00:15:28.484 --> 00:15:29.244
just at all times.
00:15:29.344 --> 00:15:37.024
and I think it's also important to consider the distance that you wanna go, because a 50K is much different than 100-mile race.
00:15:37.374 --> 00:15:42.494
And also what kind of terrain you want to run on, because this is all part of the process as well.
00:15:42.494 --> 00:16:06.134
Because the, one of the things that Kevin realized after his last ultramarathon when he did the Long Haul 100 here in Florida, is that the way that he was preparing was not going to be adequate or sufficient if he wanted to run Western States, because of the strength work and the hill work and the other things that he was missing.
00:16:06.144 --> 00:16:10.703
And Long Haul is a very flat race, but Western States is definitely not.
00:16:10.714 --> 00:16:12.394
And so I think that's a big part of it.
00:16:12.644 --> 00:16:19.323
your goal needs to consider the process and the preparation that it takes to actually make that goal achievable.
00:16:19.333 --> 00:16:33.703
So in order for Kevin to run 100 miles through the mountains, he's gonna have to be very dedicated to his strength work and really build muscle, so that is going to help him climb mountains and descend mountains without just destroying his body.
00:16:34.423 --> 00:16:34.764
Right.
00:16:34.884 --> 00:16:37.913
And- That's different than running 100 miles on flat ground in Florida
00:16:38.768 --> 00:16:39.927
Or down a road
00:16:40.207 --> 00:16:41.347
Or down a road, yes'Cause
00:16:41.368 --> 00:16:44.647
the first two that I started- were just down, down the side of the road.
00:16:44.717 --> 00:16:45.333
Yeah, true.
00:16:45.337 --> 00:16:47.508
And those are about as flat as they could possibly be.
00:16:47.587 --> 00:16:47.827
Yep.
00:16:47.898 --> 00:16:51.018
the, I think the second one might even been flatter than the first one, like the Keys 100.
00:16:51.018 --> 00:16:51.134
Yeah,
00:16:51.168 --> 00:16:54.707
I think you might m- maybe had, one or two bridges to run over, but that was kind...
00:16:54.738 --> 00:16:56.587
Yeah, the f- the second one was definitely flatter.
00:16:56.587 --> 00:16:58.028
Daytona was definitely more...
00:16:58.048 --> 00:17:00.837
There were less bridges in Daytona than it, than in the Keys.
00:17:01.028 --> 00:17:05.077
Yeah,'cause the Keys is just- you're continuously, it's one bridge and then the next bridge and the next bridge.
00:17:05.087 --> 00:17:05.107
Yeah.
00:17:05.407 --> 00:17:09.715
At Daytona is just as flat as it can be running A1A down, you know- Yeah,
00:17:09.718 --> 00:17:10.347
I think there was-
00:17:10.367 --> 00:17:11.238
chunks of Florida coast
00:17:11.268 --> 00:17:15.952
only a couple bridges that you may have had to do,'cause there was that one section- And they're small yeah, there was that one section- In St.
00:17:15.952 --> 00:17:18.617
Augustine where you had to, cross over and then cross back, but- yeah.
00:17:18.667 --> 00:17:19.488
but it's not much.
00:17:19.488 --> 00:17:23.857
And yeah, you have to take that into account and realize- how much strength training has to go in, how much mobility- has to go in.
00:17:24.127 --> 00:17:36.367
And while you may not enjoy every aspect, you have to appreciate it the same way that you may not, for the entirety of an ultramarathon race, be, like, grinning from ear to ear.
00:17:36.478 --> 00:17:36.778
Yeah.
00:17:36.778 --> 00:17:38.018
So you have to appreciate it.
00:17:38.637 --> 00:17:46.407
You have to appreciate the challenge that you're stepping up to,'cause that same desire that shows up and says,"Yeah, I don't really feel like doing strength work today.
00:17:46.678 --> 00:17:48.728
Eh, I'm not really gonna do my strides.
00:17:49.028 --> 00:17:52.788
I know the schedule says 16 miles on the long run, but I've made it to 14.
00:17:52.817 --> 00:17:59.478
That's pretty good." All of these little things of not quite doing the whole thing are gonna show up again.
00:18:00.077 --> 00:18:14.468
Like, when you sign up for a race that's gonna be 12 hours long, if your 12-miler suddenly became a 10-miler over and over again, if you weren't putting strides at the end, it's not that the strides are make and break, make or break to your routine.
00:18:14.748 --> 00:18:17.968
It's that doing this stuff is important.
00:18:18.157 --> 00:18:33.667
Because when you get into the race and it starts getting really hard, you're gonna check your evidence file and be like,"Hey, have I had difficult things where I didn't wanna keep going and I overcame the challenge?" Or most times the challenge came up, did I decide,"Yeah, you're right, I think I have done enough for today"?
00:18:33.907 --> 00:18:48.597
Because if I have done enough for today is what has regularly played out in your head, you're not going to make it to the finish line, because enough for the day is then also gonna be, answer the question of I'm curious how far my body will allow me to go.
00:18:49.188 --> 00:18:53.288
And your brain will stop you way before your body does.
00:18:53.817 --> 00:18:59.387
your brain will start throwing up all sorts of caution flags at you and being like,"Oh, this is dangerous.
00:18:59.548 --> 00:19:04.788
We're pretty sure you're gonna die," way before you're actually in a position where you might actually die.
00:19:04.837 --> 00:19:13.011
Yeah, and I think that points out that w- when you train for an ultra, it's not just physical training that we're talking about, it's mental training as well.
00:19:13.011 --> 00:19:18.392
Because everything that you do in your training is going to create some sort of habit.
00:19:18.402 --> 00:19:35.001
And so when you s- shortcut things, or if you skip things throughout the course of your training, not only will you not be as well-prepared physically, but also mentally you're telling your brain that it's okay to take the shortcut or the, your, it's okay to quit just because you're tired, and that's going to show up on race day as well.
00:19:35.781 --> 00:19:38.632
Yeah, and it's not like you have to be checking off every single box on the training plan.
00:19:38.642 --> 00:19:39.711
it's not- Of course that level.
00:19:40.031 --> 00:19:46.301
But it's a matter of which habit are you more likely to take,'cause the brain- likes to take the more well-worn path.
00:19:46.491 --> 00:19:56.102
So if you're basically doing all this stuff, but every once in a while some part of your non-running life comes in and says,"We don't have time for this today," that's going to be okay.
00:19:56.291 --> 00:19:59.291
If it's always,"We don't have time for this.
00:19:59.471 --> 00:20:01.092
We've done almost enough.
00:20:01.092 --> 00:20:04.622
We've got most of it in," then that's the path that your brain's gonna wanna take.
00:20:05.092 --> 00:20:07.791
Right, and then that's the result that you're going to have as well.
00:20:08.342 --> 00:20:10.342
Yeah, which is not the feeling that you want.
00:20:10.402 --> 00:20:11.741
DNFs are tough.
00:20:12.041 --> 00:20:12.372
Yeah.
00:20:12.402 --> 00:20:13.882
they're a difficult experience.
00:20:13.981 --> 00:20:28.311
So another reason that you might want to consider doing an ultramarathon is for the challenge itself, because any goal race or major challenge like this, that is not actually the goal.
00:20:28.311 --> 00:20:34.102
completing the race, even though we think that is what the goal is, that's not actually the goal.
00:20:34.112 --> 00:20:38.731
It is who you become in the process of achieving that goal.
00:20:38.741 --> 00:20:40.442
That's the real win.
00:20:40.451 --> 00:20:44.061
That's the real thing that we are all really after.
00:20:44.061 --> 00:20:48.741
I think that we, a lot of times people will say that they're trying to prove something to themselves.
00:20:49.451 --> 00:20:59.463
I think that if we can take it and just shift that just a little bit, instead of having to prove it- moving more towards I would like to become it.
00:20:59.493 --> 00:21:02.634
this is the version of myself that I want to become.
00:21:02.634 --> 00:21:14.364
This is what I want to see that I'm able to do, and I'm willing to do the work necessary to continue to evolve into this new version of myself that's able- Yeah to actually accomplish this thing.
00:21:15.023 --> 00:21:16.413
I, I think that's super key.
00:21:16.473 --> 00:21:23.594
if you sign up for a race with the goal of finishing it and that being- the challenge, you're not gonna get everything out of it.
00:21:23.983 --> 00:21:28.094
you have to be open to the difficulty that the ultra is.
00:21:28.243 --> 00:21:34.854
And, the same thing applies with road marathoning in general, especially if it's the fir- first time you've ever done a road marathon.
00:21:35.064 --> 00:21:39.124
Your long run is probably 20 miles, somewhere in that ballpark.
00:21:39.124 --> 00:21:40.604
That's where most training plans go to.
00:21:41.193 --> 00:21:44.114
And then there's the mystery of and then what happens.
00:21:44.233 --> 00:21:51.943
In an ultra, if you're running a 50-miler- Yeah if you're running 100K, you're not getting anywhere close to that distance.
00:21:52.544 --> 00:21:57.604
And then there's this whole area of mystery of and then what happens.
00:21:57.673 --> 00:21:58.094
Yeah.
00:21:58.094 --> 00:22:02.124
you wanna put in- All- the physical and the mental training, but there's a whole big question mark.
00:22:02.423 --> 00:22:16.900
And I think once you get up to, 100K- and 100 mile, I think 50K, less so on 50K Like, once you're at, 50 miles and above, even if you've done it already, I think there's still a big question mark.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:20.539
Just because you're out there for so many hours and so many things can come up.
00:22:20.750 --> 00:22:20.960
Yeah.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:29.700
If you have a shorter race, unless it is absurdly hilly, there's just less time for weird things to show up.
00:22:29.750 --> 00:22:40.000
And for you have to figure out,"What am I gonna do with this?" part of this comes into putting the training in, and then part of it comes into just being fully open to the entire ultra experience.
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:41.470
'Cause the training is super important.
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.269
you get to make all of these decisions.
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.799
At, every step in the training process- you get to decide.
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.470
And you might think, no, I've got a training plan.
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:57.200
This is just what I get to do." You get to decide whether you actually are going to go out and run, whether you're going to put in the work on that day or skip.
00:22:57.470 --> 00:23:07.319
You get to decide- Yeah that you're gonna take these very frustratingly small, teeny incremental approaches instead of taking this huge swing before you're ready.
00:23:07.509 --> 00:23:12.200
just'cause you wanna run an ultra does not mean that you should sign up and do one in three weeks.
00:23:12.829 --> 00:23:14.400
you need to put in the work.
00:23:14.589 --> 00:23:20.710
You might be able to do it, but you might hate the entire three-week process and the whole race itself.
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:22.559
And is that really what you wanna get out of it?
00:23:22.869 --> 00:23:28.480
It's a lot more frustrating to take these little steps along the way, but that's the best plan.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:37.327
That's the best plan to get to any huge challenge that you're gonna be taking, is these small little things that just add up to a huge monumental result.
00:23:37.837 --> 00:23:50.377
Yeah, and I think that I'd like to point out from my perspective, watching Kevin train for all these races over the last six years, basically, is he really enjoys the process of it.
00:23:50.377 --> 00:23:58.627
He, when I ask him what he's got planned for the next day, and he's"Oh, I'm gonna go out and do 20," or,"I'm gonna go do 22," or whatever he's got on his schedule for that day.
00:23:59.248 --> 00:24:00.928
And then I ask him, what are you practicing?
00:24:00.928 --> 00:24:06.998
what's the plan?" And he's"Oh, I'm practicing fueling and I'm doing this and I'm doing this." And, there's, it's more than just the running.
00:24:07.008 --> 00:24:14.748
It's also, how am I gonna help my body be able to tolerate and survive when I'm out there running 100 miles?
00:24:14.748 --> 00:24:31.107
he's practicing all of those things that goes into it, and he really enjoys that process because he enjoys experimenting with food or with water or,"Okay, I'm gonna, this time around, I'm going to walk when I'm eating my food, and that way I'm gonna give my body different, w- regular walking breaks.
00:24:31.347 --> 00:24:34.548
I can practice eating my food regularly throughout.
00:24:34.548 --> 00:24:45.859
I'm gonna do it every 30 minutes on this run and see how that goes." And so there's this whole- air and attitude of experimentation that Kevin really enjoys and has fun with.
00:24:45.869 --> 00:24:53.390
So it's really that whole process, not just getting to the finish line and completing the challenge, but it's the process that he's enjoying along the way.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:54.240
Yeah.
00:24:54.259 --> 00:25:00.880
It took a couple years to realize that there's no reason to try to run while chewing- if you don't have to.
00:25:01.089 --> 00:25:02.819
especially when you're doing 100 miles.
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:04.009
That's the thing.
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.740
'cause I was so used to like, in a marathon, I'm just gonna continuously be running.
00:25:08.750 --> 00:25:08.769
Yeah.
00:25:08.779 --> 00:25:13.039
So whatever fuel I have to do, I have to figure out how to eat it while running at race pace.
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:15.670
But race pace is so slow in an ultra-
00:25:15.789 --> 00:25:15.819
that
00:25:16.099 --> 00:25:23.250
you're gonna take regular, stops at an aid station, so you might as well just stop and take down whatever food you're doing so you don't accidentally choke on it.
00:25:23.430 --> 00:25:25.920
it's going to be worth the- Yeah 15 seconds.
00:25:26.069 --> 00:25:31.809
and that's one of the things that I always asked you, too, in, especially in your first couple of races.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.420
W- you would come into the aid station, of our car, and you just seemed like you were always in a rush.
00:25:38.430 --> 00:25:41.470
you just wanted to get in and get out as, as quickly as possible.
00:25:41.470 --> 00:25:43.160
And I'm like,"Why are you rushing?
00:25:43.170 --> 00:25:48.519
Do you realize- Inertia how much more, like, how much more running you have to do here?
00:25:48.529 --> 00:25:50.410
Why are you trying to rush out of here?
00:25:50.410 --> 00:25:53.029
One to two minutes is not going to make a difference."
00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.799
So the answer on the aid station- Yeah is inertia.
00:25:56.950 --> 00:25:57.319
Right.
00:25:57.369 --> 00:26:05.779
if I stop and I keep walking while I'm eating whatever it is, while I'm taking in, a bigger drink or whatever it is, I'm still moving forward and my- body's still going.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:06.150
Yeah.
00:26:06.150 --> 00:26:11.890
When I get back to the car and I'm like, I'm still for a little bit, y- your body just starts tensing up.
00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:14.089
And your body's"Oh, not running.
00:26:14.259 --> 00:26:20.829
This does seem really nice." I like this option." So I just, I always feel compelled to just keep- Yeah moving.
00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:25.470
But, you watch some of these ridiculously long ultras of people doing, Cocodona
00:26:25.579 --> 00:26:26.059
250-
00:26:26.059 --> 00:26:31.980
and they'll stop at an, at the aid station where, their crew is, and then they'll, climb into a camper van and be like- Yeah"All right.
00:26:32.019 --> 00:26:36.269
I'm gonna take a 20-minute nap, and then wake me back up." it's just the mo- most bonkers
00:26:36.349 --> 00:26:36.410
thing around.
00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:37.670
Yeah, but that's what happens.
00:26:38.009 --> 00:26:38.269
All right.
00:26:38.269 --> 00:26:48.210
So is there anything else you wanted to say about becoming the person that does this or deciding every step along the way who that person is?
00:26:48.210 --> 00:26:51.980
there's a couple that are more personal to me, and it's taken me a few ultras to get here.
00:26:52.269 --> 00:27:03.170
but you get to decide whether you actually show up happy and grateful and joyful in the presence of those people who are helping you, or whether you're gonna be all snappy and bitey and tired and short-tempered.
00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:05.029
And this plays out for your crew.
00:27:05.089 --> 00:27:14.490
This plays out for the people at the aid station who are volunteering to just hang out in the middle of the woods overnight- Yeah to help you accomplish a goal, to, to-
00:27:14.670 --> 00:27:16.700
Which is pretty amazing if you think about it.
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:20.019
just think about the people that volunteer at ultramarathons.
00:27:20.019 --> 00:27:21.549
Those are some amazing people.
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:22.660
They really are.
00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:26.450
you get to decide how you want to include those people around you.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.039
are you going to include people in the process?
00:27:29.069 --> 00:27:31.029
Are you just gonna ask for help on race day?
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.569
Are you doing this completely solo?
00:27:33.819 --> 00:27:37.440
And the, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer on this- but you get to make that decision.
00:27:37.450 --> 00:27:39.650
You get to decide all of these things,'cause-
00:27:39.700 --> 00:27:46.119
And I think it's always better to decide that consciously versus just allowing it to be whatever it's going to be.
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:46.950
Yeah.
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:54.250
Yeah, because the goal that you've got set out- the finish line is not going to change who you are as a person.
00:27:54.750 --> 00:28:04.309
But the exhaustion that it's gonna have by the time you get there, the training that you put into the race is going to change who you are as a person.
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:05.579
it really, it will.
00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:11.079
The finish tr- the, finisher's medal or the belt buckle or whatever you get at the finish, that's not gonna do it.
00:28:11.430 --> 00:28:18.009
But the exhaustion of the race will highlight the changes that took place in the months prior of training.
00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:23.700
it will really highlight what has been happening for the last few months- for good or bad.
00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:26.930
I think that it just, it puts a spotlight on all of those areas.
00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:27.490
Yeah.
00:28:27.819 --> 00:28:34.880
I think it's funny'cause there's that saying that money doesn't change people, and s- you could also say the same thing about ultras.
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.250
It just highlights who you are.
00:28:37.250 --> 00:28:43.319
Like, money doesn't change you, it just brings out more of the true you.
00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:44.990
Yeah, miles don't change you.
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:55.430
but they do if you use them consciously and if you use them intentionally, I think, because I think that you can run yourself into a totally different person.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.490
you can make that choice if that's the choice you want to make.
00:29:00.147 --> 00:29:05.387
I think it's difficult to run yourself into a completely different person on race day alone.
00:29:05.788 --> 00:29:06.667
Yes, agreed.
00:29:06.667 --> 00:29:08.458
I m- yeah, I mean in the process.
00:29:08.738 --> 00:29:09.528
In the process.
00:29:09.738 --> 00:29:09.958
Yes.
00:29:09.998 --> 00:29:12.468
I think that you can literally completely change your life.
00:29:12.567 --> 00:29:15.317
I think that you can com- change your life entirely.
00:29:15.327 --> 00:29:24.048
But if you've been,"I'm gonna stick this out and be solo and just grind through and grit myself through," you're probably not gonna be the nicest person on race day.
00:29:24.218 --> 00:29:24.518
Yeah.
00:29:24.617 --> 00:29:26.978
you're probably not gonna be all that nice to the people at the aid station.
00:29:27.038 --> 00:29:32.798
I don't think that you're gonna fully appreciate what is available to you- in the ultrarunning community.
00:29:33.157 --> 00:29:33.375
Yeah.
00:29:33.518 --> 00:29:35.258
And it, it's an amazing community.
00:29:35.788 --> 00:29:36.097
All right,
00:29:36.337 --> 00:29:37.798
so- So that, that was a lot of my stuff on goals.
00:29:38.057 --> 00:29:40.178
So all of that is super important.
00:29:40.597 --> 00:29:48.107
And so we would highly recommend that if you are taking on your first ultramarathon, that you take some time to journal about this.
00:29:48.117 --> 00:29:57.667
Take some time to think about why you want to accomplish this goal, who you want to be in this process, how you wanna commit and dedicate yourself.
00:29:57.678 --> 00:30:01.298
What else in your life might you need to put aside?
00:30:01.307 --> 00:30:06.478
Because the, your lifestyle is going to need to change if you are starting to do ultramarathons.
00:30:06.488 --> 00:30:17.647
So if you are someone that normally goes out to happy hour after work, or you stay up late, these are not things that are gonna be conducive to waking up early to go out on a 20-mile run the next day.
00:30:17.857 --> 00:30:23.587
So you have to understand that there are gonna be things in your lifestyle that are likely going to need to change.
00:30:23.847 --> 00:30:33.738
Your nutrition, your eating, all of that is going to need to change, and you should write down what are the things that you're willing to change, and what are the things that are maybe non-negotiable?
00:30:33.948 --> 00:30:40.647
And make sure that this is the right goal for you, because that's step one, is, making sure that this is definitely the right goal.
00:30:40.688 --> 00:30:50.538
and after you listen to this episode and we talk about more of this in detail, you can ask yourself,"Is this even something that I wanna do, considering what I might have to change in my lifestyle?
00:30:50.538 --> 00:30:56.708
Is that something that I want?" So let's get into more of the practical sides of things, Kev.
00:30:57.458 --> 00:30:57.647
All right, sounds good.
00:30:57.657 --> 00:30:58.498
Where do you wanna start?
00:30:59.531 --> 00:30:59.882
Okay.
00:31:00.392 --> 00:31:05.642
how do you pace an ultramarathon when it's- Okay a distance that you've never even attempted before?
00:31:05.692 --> 00:31:06.041
Yeah.
00:31:06.692 --> 00:31:08.771
Because it's real difficult to come up with, like, how do I-
00:31:09.132 --> 00:31:18.241
So before, before you jump into pacing, okay, my question is, are we gonna talk about, the training for the ultra, or are we just gonna jump right into, the race itself?
00:31:19.162 --> 00:31:25.961
I think that a whole lot of the race itself is then immediately connected to the training.
00:31:26.172 --> 00:31:26.501
Okay.
00:31:26.612 --> 00:31:31.752
'cause how do you pace then plays out in- what kind of training is actually required for it.
00:31:31.981 --> 00:31:32.382
Yeah.
00:31:32.701 --> 00:31:32.863
Okay.
00:31:32.892 --> 00:31:33.442
How do you-
00:31:33.491 --> 00:31:34.092
Cause I think one,
00:31:34.162 --> 00:31:35.892
like- prove yourself is played out in how do you train.
00:31:36.172 --> 00:31:36.511
Yeah.
00:31:36.711 --> 00:31:44.382
Because one of the big questions, I definitely think we can jump into actual race day, but I think one of the big questions that people have is, what is the training that is required?
00:31:44.382 --> 00:31:54.451
And there's a lot of question marks, like you said, about that mystery, that gap between the longest race or the longest run that you do in training versus the actual distance of your race.
00:31:54.451 --> 00:31:57.382
And so that people, there's a lot of confusion and unknown there.
00:31:57.912 --> 00:32:07.112
Okay, so in terms of running volume, I think it depends on what, whether you're racing or running an ultramarathon.
00:32:07.422 --> 00:32:07.741
Okay.
00:32:08.352 --> 00:32:16.231
And, I've been watching livestreams for the last few weeks of people who are predominantly racing ultramarathons.
00:32:16.602 --> 00:32:16.991
Yeah.
00:32:17.311 --> 00:32:20.771
I think most people show up and run an ultramarathon.
00:32:20.872 --> 00:32:26.852
And that affects how much training you really need to do and what type of training.
00:32:27.382 --> 00:32:27.692
Okay.
00:32:27.692 --> 00:32:29.241
I think the general- So let's go from that angle.
00:32:29.251 --> 00:32:34.682
Let's go from the angle- Okay of I want to run an ultramarathon with the main goal of completion
00:32:35.465 --> 00:32:43.155
Then most of your training is going to look like, not super high volume, but like a good moderate volume marathon training.
00:32:43.675 --> 00:32:56.026
And then you're gonna have probably like a few weekends in, say like a three to four-month training block where you wanna do a double long run weekend.
00:32:56.036 --> 00:33:05.276
Or maybe the way that your work schedule works out, you can just have one week in there that all of your runs are just like a little bit longer than normal.
00:33:05.286 --> 00:33:07.405
Say you're out and doing seven-mile runs.
00:33:07.596 --> 00:33:25.256
Maybe that week"Can I just do wall-to-wall 10s and then still put a d- a long run on the weekend?" there's not, in terms of volume, I don't think a huge difference in terms of what I've done in preparation for a marathon of 26 miles versus an ultra of 100 miles.
00:33:25.316 --> 00:33:27.715
My overall volume has been relatively close.
00:33:27.986 --> 00:33:35.006
Yeah, and I think that's a really important thing for people to understand, because that, I think, is one of the biggest question marks that they have.
00:33:35.056 --> 00:33:44.046
People automatically assume that in order to go from 26 miles to 100 miles, they have to do four times the training.
00:33:44.105 --> 00:33:45.185
quadruple the mileage.
00:33:45.195 --> 00:33:45.645
Yeah.
00:33:45.895 --> 00:33:47.976
And that's just not what, that's not the truth.
00:33:49.092 --> 00:33:51.451
you don't even really have to do double the mileage, right?
00:33:51.701 --> 00:34:02.461
Even at the elite of the elite level- you're looking at people who race 100 miles to win, and people who race marathons to win, they're running similar volumes.
00:34:02.561 --> 00:34:04.672
and then it works down to the people underneath.
00:34:04.682 --> 00:34:04.892
So people just-
00:34:04.892 --> 00:34:07.721
Yeah, because the human body can only do so much.
00:34:07.761 --> 00:34:26.862
there's- Yes there's only so many hours in the day, and there's only so much the human body can do because you still need time to recover from all of this, especially if you are not an e- an elite professional runner where running is your job and you have actually other jobs and other responsibilities that you have to take care of on top of your running.
00:34:27.081 --> 00:34:28.842
Your body just needs that time to recover.
00:34:28.842 --> 00:34:35.572
So there's just not enough time for you to go out and run insane amounts of mileage, and it's not necessary either.
00:34:35.612 --> 00:34:40.072
You can definitely complete an ultramarathon on, what would you say?
00:34:40.121 --> 00:34:51.922
what kind of weekly mileage would you say is the minimum, i- if you had to do a minimum and then like a more recommended range, and then of course- there's lots of people that would go into a higher range.
00:34:52.231 --> 00:34:53.371
What's the race distance?
00:34:53.382 --> 00:34:53.391
Oh.
00:34:53.652 --> 00:34:55.202
'Cause an ultra starts at a 50K.
00:34:55.362 --> 00:34:55.842
Good point.
00:34:55.911 --> 00:34:56.222
Okay.
00:34:56.222 --> 00:35:00.262
So a 50K training, so 50K is basically 31 miles.
00:35:00.262 --> 00:35:02.782
you would train essentially the same way that you would with a marathon.
00:35:03.271 --> 00:35:07.782
I would, you're likely now talking about adding in extra strength training.
00:35:07.831 --> 00:35:08.092
Yes.
00:35:08.141 --> 00:35:13.282
you're tweaking the, what the training looks like, but volume-wise- is probably fairly similar.
00:35:13.322 --> 00:35:14.021
About the same.
00:35:14.262 --> 00:35:16.052
And the same f- for long runs, right?
00:35:16.052 --> 00:35:20.811
your long run would probably be about 20 to 22 miles if you're trying to train for a 50K.
00:35:21.322 --> 00:35:21.842
Yes.
00:35:21.961 --> 00:35:29.829
And then you're gonna, but again, you're gonna have to know the terrain of the course and be- it's, i- it's not that much longer than a marathon.
00:35:29.829 --> 00:35:35.335
It's- it's less than five miles over a marathon, except I have to climb up and down this mountain." So the volume-wise-
00:35:35.358 --> 00:35:35.706
So that
00:35:35.708 --> 00:35:36.579
makes a huge difference is
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:36.858
good.
00:35:37.018 --> 00:35:37.289
Yeah.
00:35:37.289 --> 00:35:41.188
So you- Yeah what the training looks like is gonna be different, but the volume is probably similar.
00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:41.708
Okay.
00:35:41.708 --> 00:35:43.956
And then also- And then what about, a 50-miler-
00:35:43.956 --> 00:35:43.976
a
00:35:43.976 --> 00:35:44.068
50-miler and a 100K?
00:35:44.068 --> 00:35:46.228
Yeah, a 50-miler and 100K put together
00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:51.458
I think now you're starting to say you're gonna need some weekends where you're doing double long runs into it.
00:35:51.458 --> 00:35:51.619
Okay.
00:35:52.228 --> 00:35:52.708
Or-
00:35:52.818 --> 00:35:53.699
What does that look like?
00:35:54.449 --> 00:36:04.088
So to me, I think that you're looking in the, 40 to 50 miles per week in general.
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:04.608
Total?
00:36:06.490 --> 00:36:06.900
What'd you say?
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:08.791
Or for that total or for that weekend?
00:36:09.460 --> 00:36:15.550
No, I'm saying, 40 to 50 miles a week should be, like, your general place that you're living when training for the race.
00:36:15.701 --> 00:36:20.690
And then maybe on a couple of weeks during the training block, you have, a bigger spike in there.
00:36:20.900 --> 00:36:21.201
Okay.
00:36:21.240 --> 00:36:25.130
Because you do a 20-mile followed by, a 15-miler.
00:36:25.210 --> 00:36:32.036
that's 35 miles right there, and then you add up some runs over the rest of the week, and you can very quickly get, a bump in your volume.
00:36:32.085 --> 00:36:36.445
But- Yeah, so when Kevin talks about doing double days, that's what he's essentially talking about.
00:36:36.456 --> 00:36:36.476
Yeah.
00:36:36.485 --> 00:36:44.786
He's talking about maybe a 20-miler on Saturday and then a 15-miler on Sunday so that the o- the overall weekend mileage is much higher.
00:36:45.016 --> 00:36:59.516
doing those back-to-back long runs is going to essentially help your body learn how to run on very tired legs, which is really the big goal of ultramarathoning, is being able to continue running and continue moving forward when you are exhausted and don't want to do it.
00:37:00.016 --> 00:37:00.175
yeah.
00:37:00.326 --> 00:37:02.896
Fatigue resistance is the name of the game.
00:37:02.896 --> 00:37:02.956
The game, name of
00:37:03.085 --> 00:37:03.286
the game.
00:37:03.315 --> 00:37:04.695
That and train your stomach.
00:37:04.896 --> 00:37:05.215
Yeah.
00:37:05.405 --> 00:37:06.695
it's really- And then what about 100 miles?
00:37:06.735 --> 00:37:08.096
what kind of volume for 100?
00:37:08.206 --> 00:37:16.815
so to know that I, me personally, to feel that I'm ready for it, I'm putting up repeated 200-mile months.
00:37:17.085 --> 00:37:20.485
So that means that I'm somewhere in the, 50 to 60 miles per week.
00:37:20.615 --> 00:37:25.536
Yeah, which people would say is not that high mileage when it comes to ultramarathoning.
00:37:25.945 --> 00:37:29.215
I think that I am remarkably low mileage.
00:37:29.215 --> 00:37:29.626
Yeah.
00:37:29.766 --> 00:37:30.726
I would like...
00:37:31.456 --> 00:37:35.295
But like you pointed out, you have to make sure that you have time to recover from everything.
00:37:35.396 --> 00:37:43.795
I think if I had a greater window of recovery, that I would put myself higher and try to get more like 70 to 80 miles in during the week.
00:37:43.965 --> 00:37:53.806
or like 50 to 60 miles, but then several hours of cross-training on a bike or an elliptical- or something that isn't necessarily the same running pounding on me-
00:37:53.885 --> 00:37:54.235
Right that
00:37:54.246 --> 00:37:56.726
would get in several extra hours of cross-training.
00:37:56.985 --> 00:38:04.985
And that, you can do that with all of these distances, of maintain your mileage, but then throw on an extra hour-long bike at the end of your long run.
00:38:05.175 --> 00:38:10.346
keep your long run what it is, but when you finish, grab a snack and then go get on a stationary bike for an hour.
00:38:10.405 --> 00:38:14.545
it's- it's a way to build up the aerobic volume without beating your body up quite as much.
00:38:14.646 --> 00:38:15.135
Perfect.
00:38:15.615 --> 00:38:17.885
All right, so let's talk about pacing.
00:38:18.815 --> 00:38:19.155
Okay.
00:38:19.675 --> 00:38:26.985
So depending on the distance, 50K up to, 250-plus mile races, they vary quite a bit.
00:38:27.615 --> 00:38:34.126
Depending on what kind of terrain you're running on, it could be really difficult to determine what the pacing is for a particular ultra.
00:38:34.295 --> 00:38:34.545
Yeah.
00:38:34.545 --> 00:38:37.666
Especially if, what you're used to running is, say, a half-marathon.
00:38:38.146 --> 00:38:45.106
if you're used to racing 13 miles, trying to figure out,"How do I pace out 62 miles?" seems bonkers.
00:38:45.155 --> 00:38:47.626
and trails aren't roads.
00:38:47.735 --> 00:38:48.485
They're very different.
00:38:48.496 --> 00:38:50.436
It's a very different running experience.
00:38:50.505 --> 00:38:52.476
Hills are very different than flat.
00:38:52.476 --> 00:39:02.865
Downhills are gonna put a beat-up on your body in a way that you're like,"Oh, if you go downhill, you can go so much faster." You may be, but you may just torch your quads and not be able to finish the race.
00:39:03.206 --> 00:39:05.815
62 miles is very different than 26 miles.
00:39:06.016 --> 00:39:19.175
So you've gotta figure out, what is the ultra that I'm going to do so that you can decide, if it's a basically well-groomed course 50K- you can pl- try to pace it similarly to, a marathon.
00:39:20.306 --> 00:39:30.246
if it's not, if it's a 100-miler and you've never done anything longer than 26, you're like,"All right, so here's some hopes and dreams of some time goals that I have.
00:39:30.666 --> 00:39:35.746
I'd like to finish somewhere around 24 hours,"'cause that's a big number that people like to put on ultras.
00:39:35.806 --> 00:39:36.195
Yeah.
00:39:36.965 --> 00:39:41.806
So have- figure out what that pace breaks down to for 24 hours.
00:39:41.865 --> 00:39:47.826
Or- and then figure out what that pace breaks down to if you went slower and you ran it in 26 hours.
00:39:47.945 --> 00:39:50.655
What if you had an amazing day and you did it in 23 hours?
00:39:50.846 --> 00:39:53.565
And now you have this wide range of pace goals.
00:39:53.596 --> 00:39:54.106
Yeah.
00:39:54.655 --> 00:40:00.005
But keep in mind that those paces include stopping at aid stations regularly.
00:40:00.056 --> 00:40:06.985
So if you're like,"Oh, I need to be holding 12-minute pace," that doesn't mean that when the race starts you should slide into your 12-minute pace.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:07.405
Yeah.
00:40:07.456 --> 00:40:13.445
That means that you're running probably, 10 to 11-minute pace and stopping periodically at aid stations.
00:40:13.655 --> 00:40:23.416
Like- Yeah, I just did the math, and 24 hours is 1,440 minutes, so that means that's 14 hours, basically.
00:40:23.536 --> 00:40:25.615
Al- almost 14 and a half hours.
00:40:26.255 --> 00:40:28.215
I'm sorry, 14 and a half minute pace-
00:40:28.655 --> 00:40:29.016
Yes
00:40:29.036 --> 00:40:29.856
is what I'm going for.
00:40:29.856 --> 00:40:30.166
Sorry.
00:40:30.445 --> 00:40:30.706
Yeah.
00:40:30.856 --> 00:40:30.885
Yes.
00:40:30.885 --> 00:40:46.925
So the- you're looking at about 14 and a half minute pace in order to complete the race in 24 hours, which when you say that out loud, that seems slow for some people because they're used to running maybe 10 or 11-minute pace or nine-minute pace or whatever in, shorter races.
00:40:47.135 --> 00:40:50.106
But like you said, you also have to account for stoppage time.
00:40:50.987 --> 00:40:51.668
Yes.
00:40:51.668 --> 00:40:55.887
It's not like- It's- It's not like soccer, where you just add it in whenever you want.
00:40:56.318 --> 00:40:58.068
When you stop at an aid station, if...
00:40:58.168 --> 00:41:02.648
Go right ahead and stop your watch, but the clock at the race is just- just gonna keep going.
00:41:03.007 --> 00:41:03.827
Every bathroom break- Especially
00:41:03.827 --> 00:41:04.797
if there's a cutoff
00:41:05.478 --> 00:41:09.347
and every bathroom break that you take, the clock just keeps on rolling.
00:41:09.447 --> 00:41:09.617
Yeah.
00:41:09.657 --> 00:41:18.257
And, we'll get into eating and hydrating in a second, but- you may be able to get through a marathon without having to hit up a porta potty if things- Yeah are going smooth for you.
00:41:18.518 --> 00:41:22.057
You're not finishing an ultra without stopping somewhere along the way.
00:41:22.248 --> 00:41:22.427
Yeah.
00:41:22.427 --> 00:41:23.447
you're just not gonna do it.
00:41:23.447 --> 00:41:26.288
You're going to have to make s- pit stops along the way.
00:41:26.288 --> 00:41:27.088
It's required.
00:41:27.288 --> 00:41:28.847
your body is not gonna be able to handle it.
00:41:29.057 --> 00:41:29.257
Yeah.
00:41:29.257 --> 00:41:30.947
You're going to be stopping regularly at aid stations.
00:41:31.157 --> 00:41:36.588
If it's super hot outside, you get to aid stations and take in a lot of water, people will be dumping water on you.
00:41:36.807 --> 00:41:39.117
You might be carrying a pack the entire time.
00:41:39.177 --> 00:41:40.188
That's gonna slow you down.
00:41:40.697 --> 00:41:46.547
there's just, there's a lot more involved in a trail race, especially if the aid stations are, like, spaced out.
00:41:46.797 --> 00:41:52.958
the stuff sponsored by UTMB, they've got their required list of gear that you have to have with you at all times.
00:41:53.038 --> 00:41:56.827
Just the minimum required gear makes your backpack, 15 pounds.
00:41:56.967 --> 00:41:57.268
Yeah.
00:41:57.807 --> 00:41:58.177
So-
00:41:58.447 --> 00:41:58.708
Yeah you
00:41:58.708 --> 00:41:59.097
know, you-
00:41:59.108 --> 00:41:59.458
So-
00:41:59.467 --> 00:42:00.288
That affects pacing.
00:42:00.538 --> 00:42:01.077
Of course.
00:42:01.128 --> 00:42:03.697
So what would you say, like, how would they start the race?
00:42:03.697 --> 00:42:15.177
if they say, if they do the math, they're like,"Okay, I wanna finish in 24 hours, so my goal pace would be, like, 14 and a half minute pace for the whole thing," obviously that takes in bathrooms and rest stops and all of that thing.
00:42:15.597 --> 00:42:15.958
Yeah, but still-
00:42:15.958 --> 00:42:16.307
How would you-
00:42:16.318 --> 00:42:17.168
you're gonna be running.
00:42:17.398 --> 00:42:17.628
Yeah.
00:42:17.628 --> 00:42:23.358
if you're not used to training at that pace- it's probably gonna be that pace on average, but that's gonna include a bunch of walking breaks.
00:42:23.378 --> 00:42:23.737
Right.
00:42:23.737 --> 00:42:26.697
So m- my general advice is start easier than you think.
00:42:26.827 --> 00:42:27.088
Yeah.
00:42:27.088 --> 00:42:27.322
If
00:42:27.327 --> 00:42:29.277
you're like,"Oh, okay, so I know what my easy run pace is-"
00:42:29.277 --> 00:42:32.168
Don't try to bank time in a 100-mile race.
00:42:32.628 --> 00:42:34.268
Yeah, but not exactly.
00:42:34.297 --> 00:42:34.568
Right.
00:42:34.637 --> 00:42:37.867
you're not gonna bank time because you're taking it out quick'cause you feel fresh.
00:42:37.938 --> 00:42:38.197
Right.
00:42:38.248 --> 00:42:40.557
you still wanna take it out- super easy.
00:42:40.737 --> 00:42:43.108
if you're going for 100-miler-
00:42:43.237 --> 00:42:43.487
Yeah
00:42:43.487 --> 00:42:45.608
you wanna be in the, level two out of 10.
00:42:45.907 --> 00:42:46.168
Yeah.
00:42:46.628 --> 00:42:49.519
I- you wanna feel like you can go- Forever
00:42:49.538 --> 00:42:49.577
all day.
00:42:49.648 --> 00:42:49.867
Yeah.
00:42:49.867 --> 00:42:50.025
for hours-
00:42:50.027 --> 00:42:56.349
I, I think that's one of my, I think that's one of my favorite things about the ultramarathons is, the start line.
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:56.420
The
00:42:56.429 --> 00:42:56.960
starting gun?
00:42:58.070 --> 00:43:05.389
The starting line I think is my favorite part because if you're at, a 5K and they s- they, shoot the gun, everyone just takes off, right?
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.289
Everyone's running and it's"Ooh, hi" thing.
00:43:07.539 --> 00:43:17.389
And then at an ultra, some of them, a lot of them are just on the side of the road, and you're like,"Okay, time to start the race," and, they shoot their, the gun, and then everybody just starts trotting nice and slow.
00:43:17.389 --> 00:43:19.710
nobody's in a rush for anything, which is great.
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:20.570
Yeah.
00:43:20.570 --> 00:43:20.864
the person-
00:43:20.871 --> 00:43:21.802
Because you can't be
00:43:22.295 --> 00:43:28.315
The first one I ever did at Keys- Yeah they had waves of starts because- you're going down the side of the road, and so they can't-
00:43:28.326 --> 00:43:28.465
Yeah
00:43:28.465 --> 00:43:29.405
do, a mass start.
00:43:29.695 --> 00:43:33.556
And so they fire off every, three minutes another group of, six people.
00:43:33.655 --> 00:43:35.411
And so they're like,"All right, group
00:43:35.411 --> 00:43:36.295
one- Daytona did that, too.
00:43:36.835 --> 00:43:37.215
Yeah.
00:43:37.385 --> 00:43:37.585
Yeah.
00:43:37.596 --> 00:43:38.666
Group one, you guys are up.
00:43:38.666 --> 00:43:46.226
Group two, you guys are up." And, you and, a handful of other people start the line, and he goes,"And go." And- Yeah.
00:43:46.835 --> 00:43:48.565
There's- But- There's no gun or anything
00:43:48.885 --> 00:43:50.465
but no one, takes off.
00:43:50.695 --> 00:43:50.815
the...
00:43:50.815 --> 00:43:53.646
It was the first time that I'd ever done 100 miles.
00:43:53.686 --> 00:43:53.956
Yeah.
00:43:53.996 --> 00:43:56.295
And I'm used to running 5Ks.
00:43:56.315 --> 00:43:56.695
I think I...
00:43:56.905 --> 00:43:59.965
that was the- The race before that I had done was a 5K.
00:44:00.106 --> 00:44:00.376
Yeah.
00:44:00.376 --> 00:44:03.626
He said,"Go," and the person next to me didn't, jolt off the line.
00:44:03.626 --> 00:44:05.045
I'm like,"All right.
00:44:05.115 --> 00:44:07.072
I guess I'll start going." And I felt like- I
00:44:07.076 --> 00:44:09.016
guess we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto
00:44:09.335 --> 00:44:11.286
I felt like I was super comfortable.
00:44:11.286 --> 00:44:14.615
And then I realized that I was holding, 7:30 pace.
00:44:14.815 --> 00:44:17.135
I'm like,"Nope- Yeah, not a good idea this is way too fast."
00:44:17.135 --> 00:44:17.505
Yeah.
00:44:17.585 --> 00:44:19.215
way too fast.
00:44:19.315 --> 00:44:23.206
And, even last race, I, at one point, I was leading the last race.
00:44:23.286 --> 00:44:24.945
I don't think I screwed my pacing up.
00:44:24.945 --> 00:44:26.425
I think there were a few other issues.
00:44:26.425 --> 00:44:27.985
We had a previous podcast on this one.
00:44:27.996 --> 00:44:28.206
Yeah.
00:44:28.206 --> 00:44:34.746
But I don't think I screwed my pacing up, because it felt so, so easy.
00:44:34.925 --> 00:44:35.135
Yeah.
00:44:35.135 --> 00:44:45.925
I just have- So that's really the key, is that- Yeah when you are starting the race, you really have to just go out and be in complete conversational pace, that first third of the race.
00:44:45.936 --> 00:44:47.025
So I loved...
00:44:47.385 --> 00:45:03.876
I actually listened to Sally's podcast recently about this, and she was talking about breaking your race into thirds, which I thought was a great, strategy, is like the first third of your race, no matter how long you're running, if you're doing an ultramarathon, the first third of your race needs to feel super comfortable and super easy.
00:45:04.016 --> 00:45:05.215
you could just go all day.
00:45:05.346 --> 00:45:06.425
You could take selfies.
00:45:06.436 --> 00:45:07.596
You can record video.
00:45:07.596 --> 00:45:10.186
You can have conversations with people along the way.
00:45:10.235 --> 00:45:14.715
you should feel so, so comfortable, and you should feel like you're going too slow.
00:45:14.766 --> 00:45:15.606
yeah, that sounds right.
00:45:15.835 --> 00:45:21.436
And then I would suggest that you don't really start trying to push until the final third-
00:45:21.565 --> 00:45:21.775
Yeah
00:45:21.811 --> 00:45:24.255
if you still feel like you have the ability to push.
00:45:24.286 --> 00:45:30.045
And, but you have no chance of having the ability to push the final third- if you pushed at the start.
00:45:30.286 --> 00:45:30.755
Exactly.
00:45:30.786 --> 00:45:31.425
you just don't.
00:45:31.655 --> 00:45:31.905
Yeah.
00:45:31.936 --> 00:45:39.266
but that's really the only time that you might wanna start thinking about, more of a race mentality of- chasing people down, final third of the race.
00:45:39.356 --> 00:45:39.565
Yeah.
00:45:39.615 --> 00:45:40.615
And it varies a little bit depending on the
00:45:40.615 --> 00:45:40.626
course.
00:45:40.626 --> 00:45:47.905
because anything can happen, and, a- and the, that final third of the race is really where everybody, everyone falls apart, most of the time.
00:45:47.976 --> 00:45:48.896
So- or don't.
00:45:48.896 --> 00:45:49.125
Or don't, right.
00:45:49.126 --> 00:45:51.315
And if you're not falling apart, that's where you can start passing people.
00:45:51.326 --> 00:45:57.045
Correct, because there's just a lot of changes that happen in that last third, because some people completely fall apart.
00:45:57.056 --> 00:46:07.146
Some people are feeling totally fine, but the lead, if you're looking at who's in what place, that changes all over the place because of how different people's bodies are responding that day.
00:46:07.726 --> 00:46:14.516
Yeah, so you take it out super easy, hoping that you can start moving a little bit better on the back third of it.
00:46:14.655 --> 00:46:17.025
But you pretty much always wanna feel in control.
00:46:17.425 --> 00:46:17.626
Yeah.
00:46:17.686 --> 00:46:29.735
And that might mean if it's early in the race and there's a big hill, that you're walking up that hill- because you don't wanna burn matches in, the opening couple of hours of a 20-hour race.
00:46:29.826 --> 00:46:30.085
Yeah.
00:46:30.085 --> 00:46:31.996
You don't wanna burn all your matches in hour two.
00:46:32.266 --> 00:46:33.226
it's just not gonna go well.
00:46:33.445 --> 00:46:40.956
You push yourself over lactate threshold level, and you start churning out lactate, it's gonna take a while for your body to figure out what to do with that.
00:46:41.096 --> 00:46:44.615
And you wanna just try and make sure that it is much more under control.
00:46:44.626 --> 00:46:44.646
Yeah.
00:46:44.806 --> 00:46:53.096
And that might mean a lot more walking than you would think earlier in the race when you still feel fresh- Yeah so that you can feel as fresh as possible later in the race.
00:46:53.286 --> 00:46:54.166
Yeah, for sure.
00:46:54.166 --> 00:46:54.746
All right.
00:46:54.746 --> 00:46:55.056
All right.
00:46:55.065 --> 00:46:57.755
Another big p- anything else that you wanna say about pacing?
00:46:58.175 --> 00:46:58.445
No.
00:46:58.445 --> 00:46:59.326
You wanna talk about eating?
00:46:59.416 --> 00:47:02.936
Yeah, we have to talk about eating and hydrating, because this is really the whole game.
00:47:02.945 --> 00:47:07.516
the whole game of ultramarathoning is making sure that you fuel your body correctly.
00:47:07.516 --> 00:47:09.255
yes, I shouldn't say the whole game.
00:47:09.476 --> 00:47:10.905
Yes, the running is important.
00:47:11.115 --> 00:47:20.255
The strength training in the preparation for the 100 miles is extremely important, so I'm gonna go ahead and put in my, little push as always.
00:47:20.565 --> 00:47:24.916
Strength training and mobility training have to be a huge part of your training.
00:47:24.936 --> 00:47:26.445
It, you cannot just go out and run.
00:47:26.675 --> 00:47:35.916
In order for your body to tolerate and be more durable so that it can sustain it, it, all of those miles, you have to have strength.
00:47:35.976 --> 00:47:38.076
your muscles have to be able to support your joints.
00:47:38.335 --> 00:47:42.896
You have to have strong ligaments, strong tissues, like, all of, and your body needs to move properly.
00:47:43.115 --> 00:47:48.175
So strength and mobility at minimum twice per week, sometime- maybe even three times per week.
00:47:48.175 --> 00:48:02.146
I would say strength training, good strength training twice per week where you're doing full-body activities, making sure you're hitting all the major muscles that we runners need to train, and then doing mobility I would even say, five to seven days per week.
00:48:02.146 --> 00:48:07.876
I'm, I totally think that doing mobility every day is a good idea, especially if you're trying to run these distances.
00:48:07.876 --> 00:48:09.425
It doesn't have to be anything crazy.
00:48:09.635 --> 00:48:19.746
It can be a 10-minute mobility routine, but just moving your body, making sure that your joints and your tissues, everything is moving and things don't tighten up and form restrictions are super important.
00:48:19.746 --> 00:48:38.606
And that also carries over into race day, and this is one of the things that Kevin and I have been talking about, too, because in watching him, run these races, one of the big things that I see in his body, and of course, this is my physical therapist lens as well, one of the big things that I see is that his body just continues to tighten throughout the course of his race.
00:48:38.606 --> 00:48:40.405
his stride gets smaller.
00:48:40.405 --> 00:48:42.385
His sh- steps become more shuffly.
00:48:42.396 --> 00:48:53.916
he just doesn't have the mobility and the range of motion, which is why one of our strategies that we are going to be trying out next time is doing regular mobility breaks during the race as well.
00:48:53.925 --> 00:48:56.315
So I do think that is a very important thing.
00:48:56.315 --> 00:49:09.945
I've given that tip to our other clients that have done ultra races as well, and when they've stopped and taken these mobility breaks throughout the course of their races, they just feel so much better, and they're able to keep going.
00:49:10.686 --> 00:49:18.106
Yeah, I would have pushed back on this before, but given my current circumstances, I think that might be, like, a absolute game changer for me is-
00:49:18.146 --> 00:49:19.655
everything happens for a reason.
00:49:19.655 --> 00:49:24.646
We just have to decide whether or not we're gonna learn the lesson or be given another way to learn the lesson down the road.
00:49:24.815 --> 00:49:25.425
Yes.
00:49:25.425 --> 00:49:29.175
I could learn the lesson this time, or I could shuffle through the back half of my next race.
00:49:29.226 --> 00:49:29.485
Yeah.
00:49:30.146 --> 00:49:30.536
There you go.
00:49:30.795 --> 00:49:37.036
All right, let's talk about eating and hydrating, because this really is a big piece of completing an ultramarathon.
00:49:38.275 --> 00:49:43.226
Yeah, I came up with this quote, and I have absolutely no idea who did, but someone described ultrarunning as a moving eating contest.
00:49:44.615 --> 00:49:45.936
it's just a mobile eating contest.
00:49:45.965 --> 00:49:46.255
Yeah.
00:49:46.356 --> 00:49:47.135
because it is.
00:49:47.135 --> 00:49:53.326
you have to take in a huge amount of food while continuing to move your body down the road, down the trail, whatever it is.
00:49:53.385 --> 00:50:01.786
So one of the things that you have to keep in mind is, depending on the effort that you're putting out, y- it will vary the amount of food that you can take in.
00:50:02.085 --> 00:50:17.692
Depending on the distance you're covering, depending on the conditions, is it hot, is it cold, is it at crazy altitude, your intake will vary a little bit But in general, a big, broad statement, you're aiming to take in 60 to 90 grams of carbohydrates every single hour.
00:50:17.862 --> 00:50:18.132
Yeah.
00:50:18.311 --> 00:50:20.871
Every hour, over and over for hour after hour.
00:50:21.382 --> 00:50:25.382
If your effort level is a little bit lower, you can be at the lower end of this.
00:50:25.592 --> 00:50:28.161
But I'm not saying that you should then fall off this.
00:50:28.172 --> 00:50:36.262
I'm saying that you should try to be hitting around 60 grams an hour for a lower effort, not a slower pace, but simply a lower effort.
00:50:36.922 --> 00:50:38.101
This is not about pacing.
00:50:38.322 --> 00:50:45.742
The people who are the fastest at this, the people who are just barely beating cutoffs, it all depends on how hard of an effort that feels.
00:50:46.021 --> 00:50:50.411
the people who are winning just'cause they're going so fast doesn't mean that it doesn't feel like L2 for them.
00:50:50.612 --> 00:50:50.782
Yeah.
00:50:50.782 --> 00:50:54.811
And so that, that food is all based off of what your current effort level is.
00:50:54.871 --> 00:51:01.831
so for lower effort or if your race happens to be at a very high altitude, it is just difficult for the body to digest at super high altitude.
00:51:01.831 --> 00:51:05.211
So you have to be careful with taking in a whole lot of carbohydrates at high altitude.
00:51:05.612 --> 00:51:20.161
if you're out there for a ridiculously long adventure, then you're gonna have to start considering taking in protein, taking in fats, but you want to do this in a careful and practiced manner- Yeah because your body doesn't digest fat and protein as well.
00:51:20.211 --> 00:51:22.561
And so they may cause some GI issues.
00:51:22.771 --> 00:51:29.081
The suggestion may be that you take in some sort of, of protein or fat, but with carbohydrates.
00:51:29.271 --> 00:51:32.751
that it's not just, you're not taking a spoonful of coconut oil.
00:51:32.882 --> 00:51:37.541
you're having something that i- has some protein, has some fats to it- but as part of a thing.
00:51:37.681 --> 00:51:39.632
trail quesadillas are popular for a reason.
00:51:39.802 --> 00:51:46.891
there's, they're cheesy and greasy and d- delicious, but it's all wrapped in a tortilla, and there's tons of carbs inside of that thing.
00:51:47.192 --> 00:51:54.481
Right there's gels out there that do the branched-chain amino acids that are trying to be like,"Oh, it's like taking in proteins." It's not exactly.
00:51:54.512 --> 00:51:54.846
No, it's not.
00:51:54.846 --> 00:51:54.889
for
00:51:54.889 --> 00:51:59.699
the last couple of, the last couple of ultras, I've pounded cold protein shakes- Yeah partway through.
00:52:00.088 --> 00:52:06.353
And I practiced it And quite honestly, an iced down protein shake is delicious partway through.
00:52:06.382 --> 00:52:06.432
It's
00:52:06.432 --> 00:52:07.123
like a milkshake.
00:52:07.643 --> 00:52:10.452
It really is, but you gotta practice that one.
00:52:10.623 --> 00:52:10.873
Yeah.
00:52:10.882 --> 00:52:14.802
Real food is great if you've practiced real food.
00:52:14.842 --> 00:52:15.083
Yeah.
00:52:15.163 --> 00:52:20.402
And if you're going at an effort level that you can continuously chew throughout.
00:52:20.532 --> 00:52:22.952
Sometimes chewing just sounds like a terrible option.
00:52:22.963 --> 00:52:22.983
Yeah.
00:52:22.992 --> 00:52:32.432
And while real food options are great, it's good for palate fatigue, where you're like,"I just don't wanna take in all these sweet gels and goos." Maybe you just don't like the consistency or whatever the thing of the gel is.
00:52:32.583 --> 00:52:35.972
One, there are dozens of brands of gels.
00:52:36.023 --> 00:52:36.612
Try some.
00:52:36.802 --> 00:52:37.492
Give it a shot.
00:52:37.652 --> 00:52:37.893
Yeah.
00:52:37.943 --> 00:52:47.733
but you gotta be careful with the real food to make sure that it is, in general, a pretty dense carb, because you don't wanna be carrying, like a plate of spaghetti seems like a great option, but that's not easily transportable.
00:52:47.733 --> 00:52:49.913
and you wanna make sure that it's still low in fiber.
00:52:50.143 --> 00:52:54.452
There's some fruit options that'd be like,"Oh, I'll, carry an apple." I could not do that.
00:52:54.503 --> 00:52:55.793
an apple's not gonna work well for me.
00:52:55.802 --> 00:52:56.143
No.
00:52:56.202 --> 00:52:56.503
But
00:52:56.753 --> 00:52:57.297
grapes work well for me.
00:52:57.297 --> 00:52:58.512
Also because of the fiber, too
00:52:59.240 --> 00:52:59.541
like the fibers not gonna- Like you
00:52:59.541 --> 00:53:02.800
don't want, you don't want high-fiber foods either, if you can avoid them.
00:53:03.170 --> 00:53:03.561
Yes.
00:53:03.871 --> 00:53:04.061
Yeah.
00:53:04.081 --> 00:53:11.291
So you need the carbs, but if it's real food, try and make sure that it's staying in, in low fiber because- Yeah you're already gonna be stopping at the bathroom.
00:53:11.291 --> 00:53:12.481
Don't try and increase that amount.
00:53:12.710 --> 00:53:13.061
Yeah.
00:53:13.481 --> 00:53:14.411
Yeah, so I agree.
00:53:14.420 --> 00:53:24.601
I do think that when you are getting into the longer races, more like 50 miles and above, that you are going to likely be better served eating some sort of real food.
00:53:24.860 --> 00:53:29.820
So making sure that you practice, not just relying on drinks and gels and the processed stuff.
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:36.891
That stuff is going to be helpful, and that stuff is m- may make up a large portion of your nutrition during that race.
00:53:37.201 --> 00:53:40.001
But it is important to practice real food things too.
00:53:40.001 --> 00:53:55.561
So some of the things that Kevin has used and that I've also seen at the aid stations, and I think that would be a good thing for Kevin, for you to tell people, what you've seen at the aid stations as well, because it's important that if that's what they're having, you should try practicing with those because you never know how your body's going to react.
00:53:55.561 --> 00:54:09.521
So some of the things that Kevin likes, potato chips, or Pringles or something like that, so that if he gets overdone with the sweet, we can switch over to salty and still have some car- good carbs, and then there's also some fat and stuff that comes with the potato chips.
00:54:09.751 --> 00:54:15.411
I see a lot of M&Ms, peanut M&Ms, Skittles, like they've got all sorts of candy at the aid stations.
00:54:15.411 --> 00:54:18.780
They've got Starburst and Skittles and all sorts of things.
00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:21.831
They've got like Doritos, all different types of chips.
00:54:21.831 --> 00:54:22.990
They've got pretzels.
00:54:23.391 --> 00:54:25.271
They, a lot of times they'll have the quesadillas.
00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.391
They'll have the, the ramen, the broth- because that's really salty, so that's really good for electrolytes.
00:54:30.690 --> 00:54:37.021
So the noodles will give you g- good carbs, and then the broth will give you both liquid and the salt for the electrolytes.
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:38.581
so that's a popular one.
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:39.931
what else have you seen?
00:54:40.170 --> 00:54:42.530
Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches- are very popular.
00:54:42.891 --> 00:54:45.940
Yeah, grilled cheese, peanut butter and jelly, various- Yeah little sandwiches.
00:54:46.050 --> 00:54:49.800
it, it's all stuff that's still pretty easily handheld items.
00:54:49.820 --> 00:54:50.231
Yeah.
00:54:50.291 --> 00:54:51.490
That you can just take on the go.
00:54:51.860 --> 00:54:52.240
Yeah.
00:54:52.291 --> 00:54:53.161
that's kinda your big one.
00:54:53.371 --> 00:54:53.541
Yeah.
00:54:53.590 --> 00:55:02.193
from a hydrating perspective- Again, drastic range, and it depends a lot on w- the conditions, how hot and humid is it.
00:55:02.242 --> 00:55:11.932
But in ballpark, let's give a mid-range of 16 to 24 fluid ounces, which is somewhere in the 500 to 750 milliliters.
00:55:11.932 --> 00:55:14.413
I looked it up for any of our metric listeners.
00:55:14.663 --> 00:55:15.032
Per what?
00:55:15.032 --> 00:55:20.182
That is, that's your, the volume of water that you're looking to take in every hour.
00:55:20.413 --> 00:55:20.632
Every
00:55:20.632 --> 00:55:20.932
hour.
00:55:20.983 --> 00:55:25.563
16 to 24 ounces or fif- 500 to 750 milliliters every single hour.
00:55:25.563 --> 00:55:27.612
I do it predominantly in sports drink.
00:55:27.793 --> 00:55:34.913
But there are other people who take in a lot more food and then take in mostly plain water.
00:55:34.972 --> 00:55:36.023
Which works.
00:55:36.063 --> 00:55:39.452
I do sports drink because then I get the electrolytes out of my sports drink.
00:55:39.672 --> 00:55:44.032
If you're doing plain water, it's fine, you just gotta make sure that you're balancing your electrolytes somewhere.
00:55:44.043 --> 00:55:50.902
Which also has a super wide range, even wider than the hydration range.
00:55:51.043 --> 00:56:03.666
Hydration, 16 to 24 fluid ounces is great, but electrolytes 200 to 1,500 milligrams of sodium per hour- Yeah depending on if you're a salty or not very salty sweater.
00:56:03.666 --> 00:56:12.536
And then that varies based off of your sweat rate, and that varies based off of how tired and hydrated you are, whether you're at altitude, whether it's humid.
00:56:13.097 --> 00:56:14.097
There's so many things.
00:56:14.226 --> 00:56:15.586
You can go get a sweat test.
00:56:15.597 --> 00:56:17.556
There's places- Yeah around you can get a sweat test.
00:56:17.867 --> 00:56:22.036
It gives you a ballpark starting point, but then you have to be able to adjust off of that.
00:56:22.297 --> 00:56:22.547
Yeah.
00:56:22.597 --> 00:56:24.027
you've gotta be able to go up or down.
00:56:24.527 --> 00:56:27.717
And again, this goes back to you need to practice this stuff in training.
00:56:27.717 --> 00:56:29.266
You need to know in training.
00:56:29.356 --> 00:56:38.847
Also, the weather conditions, the- whether it's hot and humid or cold, like these, all of these things make a difference in how much you're sweating and how many electrolytes you're losing per hour.
00:56:39.027 --> 00:56:44.836
so you need to know, if you're out there running and you finish and you taste salt, you're probably a saltier sweater.
00:56:44.836 --> 00:56:58.217
If you see those white marks on your clothing or on your hat or on your bandana or whatever it is that you wear on your head, if you see those white lines, you're probably a more salty sweater, so it's gonna be more important for you to help replace those electrolytes during your race.
00:56:58.217 --> 00:57:02.027
And everybody is an individual, which is why it all goes back to training.
00:57:02.286 --> 00:57:06.427
Are you-- Is it gonna be fun for you to practice these things in training?
00:57:06.427 --> 00:57:10.077
Are you going to enjoy this process to figure out, am I a salty sweater?
00:57:10.086 --> 00:57:11.237
Am I not a salty sweater?
00:57:11.237 --> 00:57:13.067
Like, how much water should I be drinking?
00:57:13.077 --> 00:57:18.376
How-- there's, these are all the things that you practice in the training process leading up to the race.
00:57:18.927 --> 00:57:22.146
And when you practice them, you may end up having some training runs that are miserable-
00:57:22.387 --> 00:57:22.827
Totally
00:57:22.829 --> 00:57:27.277
because you tried taking in higher salt that day- Yep and it just wrecked you.
00:57:27.476 --> 00:57:27.655
Yeah.
00:57:27.697 --> 00:57:32.157
Or you tried taking in lower salt and just- trying to survive off of water and food-
00:57:32.257 --> 00:57:32.527
Yeah
00:57:32.536 --> 00:57:34.617
instead of a sports drink, and that buried you.
00:57:34.646 --> 00:57:35.746
you're gonna have some days.
00:57:35.967 --> 00:57:38.617
do you wanna even try and consider heat training along the way?
00:57:38.657 --> 00:57:43.916
Like- there are things that to be taken into account of, how many various steps do you wanna put into the training process?
00:57:43.956 --> 00:57:44.206
Yeah.
00:57:44.416 --> 00:57:46.641
and I'm- And a lot of it is just trying stuff.
00:57:46.811 --> 00:57:58.251
And I think that's a really good thing to point out because I think a lot of times people think,"Oh, this did not feel good in training, so I must not be prepared for this." And that's not what's happening here at all.
00:57:58.262 --> 00:58:02.532
The- what's happening is that you are practicing things, and you are learning lessons.
00:58:02.541 --> 00:58:04.961
So you are learning what works and what doesn't work.
00:58:05.161 --> 00:58:25.782
And so just going into training understanding that some of your runs might feel terrible because you're gonna be experimenting throughout the whole training cycle, and some-- You're gonna find, part of the goal of training is to find the things that don't work so that you know better the things that do work, so that you can avoid those things on race day that don't work for you and focus more on the things that do.
00:58:26.992 --> 00:58:31.922
Yeah, and just because it doesn't feel great in a particular training run doesn't mean that it's bad.
00:58:32.141 --> 00:58:37.081
in order to be able to take in, 90 grams of carbs an hour, you have to train your stomach to do it.
00:58:37.222 --> 00:58:38.231
And it is trainable.
00:58:38.442 --> 00:58:38.711
Yeah.
00:58:38.711 --> 00:58:44.152
You can train your stomach to take in more food every hour, to take in more food on a constant basis.
00:58:44.601 --> 00:58:47.822
but it's not going to be comfortable on every run that you're doing it.
00:58:47.831 --> 00:58:52.992
those runs- Yeah where you're trying to up your carb intake are going to be uncomfortable runs.
00:58:53.092 --> 00:58:53.481
Yeah.
00:58:53.992 --> 00:58:59.112
So what do you think about the advice with ultramarathons about nothing new on race day, right?
00:58:59.112 --> 00:59:08.501
Because th- this is one of the things that I think- that you and I have debated about in your ultra journey as well, because this is one of the old adages, right?
00:59:08.501 --> 00:59:09.561
Nothing new on race day.
00:59:09.561 --> 00:59:10.851
We've probably all heard this.
00:59:11.052 --> 00:59:15.081
You should always practice your clothing and your shoes and all the things beforehand.
00:59:15.092 --> 00:59:27.472
But I think that ultramarathoning is interesting in this way because you have to be a little bit more flexible and a little bit more adaptable because you e- have eaten things during your ultras that you've never practiced with before.
00:59:28.262 --> 00:59:35.811
On almost every ultra- I know I have taken in things that I'm like, I come back off of a loop, and you're like,"All right, what'd you have?" I'm like, I had this and this." You're like,"You did what now?"
00:59:36.021 --> 00:59:36.231
Yeah.
00:59:37.422 --> 00:59:37.742
Yeah.
00:59:37.762 --> 00:59:41.512
Because don't try something new on race day is very logical.
00:59:41.782 --> 00:59:41.961
Yeah.
00:59:41.972 --> 00:59:45.211
Only do the things that you've practiced because that's gonna put you in the best result.
00:59:45.402 --> 00:59:49.271
But you don't practice how your body feels at mile 80.
00:59:49.501 --> 00:59:49.751
Right.
00:59:49.791 --> 00:59:49.952
Like-
00:59:49.992 --> 00:59:50.751
Because you never
00:59:50.753 --> 00:59:51.791
get- At no point do you practice that
00:59:51.851 --> 00:59:53.061
you never get to training.
00:59:53.092 --> 00:59:54.431
you never get to 80 miles in training.
00:59:54.442 --> 00:59:55.251
That's not a good idea.
00:59:55.311 --> 00:59:58.911
And what your body feels like at mile 80, even if you've done 100 mile-
00:59:58.922 --> 00:59:59.101
Yeah
00:59:59.121 --> 01:00:01.871
is not necessarily what your body's gonna feel like at mile 80 the next time.
01:00:01.882 --> 01:00:03.092
So you don't know.
01:00:03.092 --> 01:00:08.101
There's no preparation for that, which is why I think you just gotta try a lot of things.
01:00:08.181 --> 01:00:08.541
Yeah.
01:00:09.052 --> 01:00:13.541
Cause if then, if you can figure out, okay, I cannot eat this.
01:00:13.722 --> 01:00:13.862
Yeah.
01:00:13.862 --> 01:00:15.621
My body rejects this.
01:00:15.831 --> 01:00:23.972
You know when you get to the aid station table and they've got all this stuff laid out in front of you, because there's, four picnic tables lined up at the one that I've gone to.
01:00:23.972 --> 01:00:24.331
Yeah.
01:00:24.402 --> 01:00:34.121
Literally four picnic tables full of foods and drinks, and you come in, they're like,"What can we get for you?" And- the one time I grabbed, a cup of mashed potatoes.
01:00:34.231 --> 01:00:40.231
I, I had not practiced, like boil-in-the-cup mashed potatoes, and they handed it to me and sent me on my way.
01:00:40.461 --> 01:00:48.362
And I'm like, this is delicious and amazing," but I had definitely never practiced taking in hot mashed potatoes- at 1:00 in the morning.
01:00:48.581 --> 01:00:50.282
that was not a thing that I practiced.
01:00:50.282 --> 01:00:50.661
Right.
01:00:51.211 --> 01:00:55.882
So I think that you wanna try as many food options as you can.
01:00:56.001 --> 01:00:58.512
You wanna try them while you're running different efforts.
01:00:58.512 --> 01:01:00.172
You wanna try them at different times of the day.
01:01:00.172 --> 01:01:02.612
You wanna try running at different times of the day.
01:01:02.612 --> 01:01:08.172
You wanna practice, definitely practice what you know is gonna be the fuel available on course.
01:01:08.351 --> 01:01:15.661
a lot of them will have, a certain brand of a gel that they're going to always have at the aid station, or,"This is the drink that we're gonna have at the aid station." Yeah.
01:01:15.661 --> 01:01:16.141
Practice that.
01:01:16.391 --> 01:01:18.041
Make sure that you know that's good.
01:01:18.092 --> 01:01:20.621
Because you can train your body to get to a point that it's gonna be okay with that.
01:01:20.831 --> 01:01:31.101
Try a lot of the common aid station food, even if you don't plan on using it, because maybe at mile 80, suddenly that sounds like a brilliant idea, and it'd be nice to know if it's gonna work out for you.
01:01:31.291 --> 01:01:35.152
Like a race quesadilla, trail quesadilla has never sounded like a good idea.
01:01:35.592 --> 01:01:35.911
but I...
01:01:36.302 --> 01:01:40.681
Last race, I wanted to get to the finish line'cause I wanted one, and I knew they had them at the finish line.
01:01:40.692 --> 01:01:40.711
Yeah.
01:01:40.972 --> 01:01:46.342
I just didn't wanna even attempt it during, because I'd never tried that- Yeah and it didn't sound great.
01:01:46.541 --> 01:01:50.481
That sounds- You want to practice so that you can set yourself up for success.
01:01:50.492 --> 01:01:50.512
Yeah.
01:01:50.521 --> 01:01:58.152
You want as much routine as possible, but ultimately, you need a routine so it gives you a foundation that you can adapt from.
01:01:58.351 --> 01:02:05.601
That is your key to success in an ultra, is a plan and a lot of flexibility and adaptability.
01:02:05.851 --> 01:02:06.992
Yeah, definitely.
01:02:07.501 --> 01:02:13.621
And there's also a lot of other things that you can practice based on the specific race that you're going to be doing.
01:02:13.621 --> 01:02:19.092
So I think, again, this is, we're gonna mention a couple here But you can pick and choose what's- I did
01:02:19.101 --> 01:02:19.762
make quite a list
01:02:19.811 --> 01:02:22.161
yeah, what's going to be applicable for you.
01:02:22.192 --> 01:02:27.532
So one of the big things that I think that you should practice is running at different times p- of the day.
01:02:27.552 --> 01:02:36.592
Because I think this is one of the things that Kevin does really well, and I think this is one of his strong suits, in his training that sets him up for success in the ultramarathons.
01:02:36.601 --> 01:02:41.512
Because I think there's a lot of people out there that try to, w- they wake up and they run first thing in the morning.
01:02:41.512 --> 01:02:46.251
They try to run in the coolest part of the day, which is great for that training run.
01:02:46.251 --> 01:02:55.481
You're gonna feel better on that training run, but you're not preparing your body to run at 3:00 PM with full sun if all of your runs are at 6:00 AM.
01:02:55.492 --> 01:03:01.291
So it's, in, in your ultramarathon, you're probably going to be running at 3:00 PM with full sun.
01:03:01.302 --> 01:03:02.802
Maybe it's gonna be cloudy that day, who knows.
01:03:02.831 --> 01:03:09.811
But running at different times of the day and seeing how your body feels at different times of the day I think are very, is very important to do.
01:03:10.336 --> 01:03:10.617
Yeah.
01:03:10.726 --> 01:03:12.186
just some very practical ones.
01:03:12.416 --> 01:03:15.197
If it's gonna be hot, figure out how to run with an ice bandana.
01:03:15.277 --> 01:03:19.157
If you're going to be carrying a lot of fluid in a vest, you better practice doing that.
01:03:19.237 --> 01:03:19.556
Yeah.
01:03:19.646 --> 01:03:19.956
if you're running- That
01:03:19.960 --> 01:03:26.637
was one of the big ones that you had to practice at the beginning because your back muscles had to build up strength.
01:03:26.646 --> 01:03:28.007
So the, I will tell you guys this.
01:03:28.257 --> 01:03:37.666
If you are practicing running with a vest, and, especially if you have a water bladder in that vest, don't start with a full water bladder the first time you put that vest on.
01:03:37.677 --> 01:03:37.706
Oh, yeah.
01:03:37.706 --> 01:03:41.626
Because I remember Kevin, f- we filled it up, we just didn't e- we didn't even think about it, right?
01:03:41.626 --> 01:03:43.847
We just filled up the water bladder and off he went.
01:03:43.856 --> 01:03:46.786
He had to take it off after maybe 10 miles or something.
01:03:46.786 --> 01:03:48.166
I forget what you were doing that day.
01:03:48.347 --> 01:03:55.447
But you were so sore'cause you're like,"This is heavy, carrying this." So you have to train your body to be able to carry more weight.
01:03:55.447 --> 01:03:56.436
So start small.
01:03:56.436 --> 01:04:04.027
Start with a, an, a weighted vest, or not a weighted vest, a vest that has just a couple things in it so that you can get used to what just the vest feels like.
01:04:04.027 --> 01:04:05.686
And then add things to it.
01:04:05.717 --> 01:04:10.056
Add the water, add the gels, add the different things that you're gonna carry along the way.
01:04:10.056 --> 01:04:18.186
Because your postural muscles, your neck, your shoulders, like all of that, you need to build up the endurance and the strength in all of those body parts.
01:04:18.922 --> 01:04:19.333
Yeah.
01:04:19.432 --> 01:04:20.163
practice hiking.
01:04:20.682 --> 01:04:23.322
if you're in a very hilly race, practice hiking.
01:04:23.422 --> 01:04:35.329
'cause there was a race that, I forget which one it was, but I did a lot of walking, and I got a blister in a spot that I've never gotten from running, but my foot moves differently when I was walking hour after hour.
01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:36.009
Oh.
01:04:36.018 --> 01:04:36.028
I
01:04:36.028 --> 01:04:38.918
think that was Daytona- Yeah where I couldn't run anymore because my knees were killing
01:04:38.918 --> 01:04:38.969
me.
01:04:38.969 --> 01:04:41.219
Yeah, you had to have foot care done at mile 82.
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:42.168
Yeah.
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:50.759
But I had another blister that was back on my heel that I don't get from running, but I get it from walking mile and hour after hour.
01:04:50.989 --> 01:04:51.219
Yeah.
01:04:51.219 --> 01:04:59.739
So if you're planning on doing a lot of hiking because it's a super hilly race, practice hiking, because that- is a skill that you don't just naturally have because you can run.
01:04:59.748 --> 01:05:01.608
Just'cause you can run does not mean that you can hike.
01:05:01.949 --> 01:05:03.048
practice running downhill.
01:05:03.559 --> 01:05:07.548
practice running downhill in a way that your quads are not numb after you do it.
01:05:07.668 --> 01:05:16.793
if you know that the race has a lot of downhill and you're planning on running the downhill, there should be a good amount of downhill running in your training- Yeah so that you can prep your quads for that.
01:05:16.793 --> 01:05:23.434
Because as much as you love strength training, there's not much that preps your quads for downhill running like running down a hill.
01:05:23.764 --> 01:05:24.164
Yeah.
01:05:24.393 --> 01:05:30.224
But you have to be careful, because if you do too much of that in training, then your body's not recovering well for it, so there's a whole thing there.
01:05:30.514 --> 01:05:37.844
a couple other ones, running at midday, running as the sun sets, running with a headlamp if you've never done that before, especially'cause you're gonna be...
01:05:38.123 --> 01:05:40.554
If you're doing a long race, you're, it's gonna be at night.
01:05:40.554 --> 01:05:41.844
You gotta have a headlamp on.
01:05:42.103 --> 01:05:42.123
You
01:05:42.123 --> 01:05:43.634
might have to change your headlamp in the middle
01:05:43.634 --> 01:05:43.684
of the night.
01:05:43.684 --> 01:05:45.143
You might have to ch- Yeah.
01:05:45.483 --> 01:05:51.603
practicing running, sitting down for a period of time, and then running again, because things are gonna tighten up on you.
01:05:51.614 --> 01:05:56.523
Maybe you sit, need to sit down and take a rest break or change your shoes or change your socks or do these other things.
01:05:56.523 --> 01:06:01.103
Maybe you practice ch- doing an outfit change during one of your really long runs.
01:06:01.103 --> 01:06:02.813
That could be, something that you practice too.
01:06:03.023 --> 01:06:11.054
But, like, when you practice all these different elements and you think about all these different elements ahead of time, then it's just one more thing that you...
01:06:11.083 --> 01:06:12.554
is not a surprise on race day.
01:06:12.563 --> 01:06:13.043
You're like,"Okay.
01:06:13.043 --> 01:06:14.123
Yes, I've done this before.
01:06:14.123 --> 01:06:19.514
I've practiced this." Even if race day is completely different, you have some experience with that thing.
01:06:20.115 --> 01:06:30.655
and the biggest thing of practicing all of these just shows that you can do such a wide range of things in your running- Yeah that if something brand new comes up on race day, you're like,"Oh, it's just another thing.
01:06:30.786 --> 01:06:35.155
I haven't exactly practiced this, but I've practiced so many things, I've figured it out." Yeah.
01:06:35.155 --> 01:06:44.085
And I think that's ultimately one of the biggest ways to succeed- in ultra running, is the ability to figure it out and not freak out when something comes up.
01:06:44.226 --> 01:06:44.465
Yeah.
01:06:44.465 --> 01:06:44.516
I
01:06:44.516 --> 01:06:45.255
think that's the key.
01:06:45.666 --> 01:06:45.985
Yeah.
01:06:46.186 --> 01:06:47.376
And I just thought of something.
01:06:47.445 --> 01:06:53.905
I'm gonna make a checklist for you guys, and if you want to download that free checklist, all you have to do is go to our show notes.
01:06:54.126 --> 01:06:58.925
so if you go to realliferunners.com/, let's see.
01:06:58.996 --> 01:07:05.715
I don't even know, but whenever, wherever the show notes are, we- will put a link for that in the show notes.
01:07:05.735 --> 01:07:11.905
I can't remember what,'cause I don't think it's just, it might be just the, the episode number, but I don't think it's that simple.
01:07:12.235 --> 01:07:18.755
But if you go to the website, if you go to realliferunners.com and you click on podcast, you'll be able to get to all of our episodes and all of our show notes just from there.
01:07:19.056 --> 01:07:19.835
so yeah.
01:07:19.846 --> 01:07:20.485
We'll put a link.
01:07:20.485 --> 01:07:21.556
We'll, I'll make a checklist.
01:07:21.626 --> 01:07:23.485
That sounds like a great resource for people.
01:07:24.135 --> 01:07:24.706
Excellent plan.
01:07:24.726 --> 01:07:25.905
All the things to practice.
01:07:26.976 --> 01:07:27.163
I like
01:07:27.164 --> 01:07:27.260
it.
01:07:27.260 --> 01:07:32.715
All right, Kev, do you have anything else that you wanna mention before we wrap today's up?
01:07:33.255 --> 01:07:34.425
No.
01:07:34.476 --> 01:07:36.675
if you have an inkling, you are capable of doing it.
01:07:37.096 --> 01:07:37.416
Yeah.
01:07:37.465 --> 01:07:37.846
that's what I've got.
01:07:38.255 --> 01:07:39.106
I- If there's an inkling.
01:07:39.565 --> 01:07:41.795
I believe that no matter what goal we're talking about.
01:07:41.795 --> 01:07:44.626
if you have a desire, then you have the ability.
01:07:44.626 --> 01:07:49.615
there's no reason that you would have a desire to do something if you genuinely did not have the ability to do it.
01:07:49.626 --> 01:07:52.856
So if you have the desire, you are able to do it.
01:07:52.856 --> 01:07:56.436
You just need the right preparation, you need the right training, you need the right support.
01:07:56.826 --> 01:08:11.516
and the other thing that I want to mention in watching Kevin, and I hope that you would agree with this, I think that ultra running especially is much more about the mental toughness and durability and resilience than even the physical side of things.
01:08:11.516 --> 01:08:22.086
I think your mental toughness, or not toughness, but your mental strength and your ability to just force yourself to keep going plays a bigger role than the physical preparation does.
01:08:22.086 --> 01:08:22.706
What do you think?
01:08:24.329 --> 01:08:24.760
yeah.
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:28.090
'cause i- in road racing, things tend to finish faster.
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:28.460
Yeah.
01:08:28.529 --> 01:08:29.590
In ultras-
01:08:29.859 --> 01:08:30.989
You just gotta keep going.
01:08:31.140 --> 01:08:35.189
Yeah, once the physical, like the physical pain is there, the physical discomfort- Yeah is there, and-
01:08:35.201 --> 01:08:37.210
Your body's gonna wanna shut down at some point.
01:08:37.569 --> 01:08:38.050
Yes.
01:08:38.369 --> 01:08:39.630
Especially if you're running 100 miles.
01:08:39.630 --> 01:08:45.199
your body's just gonna tell you that it's done, and you have to be strong enough mentally to just keep going.
01:08:45.510 --> 01:08:50.189
Yeah, and, the same thing happens in a marathon, but you have to just keep going for a few more miles.
01:08:50.260 --> 01:08:50.439
Yeah.
01:08:50.460 --> 01:08:53.189
In an ultra, you have to keep going for several more hours.
01:08:53.239 --> 01:08:55.729
And that's a very different mental thing to wrap your head around.
01:08:55.890 --> 01:08:56.229
Yeah.
01:08:56.609 --> 01:08:56.899
Yeah.
01:08:57.189 --> 01:09:10.960
So mental training totally needs to be a part of your training and your repertoire, like getting stronger mentally, starting to see some of those dark sides of your brain,'cause your brain's always gonna wanna offer lots of dark sides to you at all times.
01:09:10.960 --> 01:09:15.779
Being able to be there, be in it, and continue to move forward is gonna be really powerful.
01:09:15.789 --> 01:09:16.170
So
01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:21.710
we'll, we will talk- that's like outside of listening to our podcast, you should do some runs without headphones.
01:09:21.770 --> 01:09:22.039
Yeah.
01:09:22.850 --> 01:09:25.359
you should spend some time alone in your head.
01:09:25.500 --> 01:09:30.010
Even if you plan on having music or whatever throughout the entire race-
01:09:30.050 --> 01:09:30.399
Yeah
01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:32.270
you should spend some time alone in your head.
01:09:32.329 --> 01:09:38.649
One, I think you should race a good chunk of it without stuff in your ears, because you're gonna get a lot out of the experience.
01:09:38.670 --> 01:09:38.859
But-
01:09:38.859 --> 01:09:39.149
Yeah
01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:44.819
I think that you should do some training just to see what happens when you are able to hear the voices in your head.
01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:48.949
The voices, they're saying things again.
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:48.970
I
01:09:49.409 --> 01:09:50.880
mean, they alway- they're always talking.
01:09:50.930 --> 01:09:51.180
They're
01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:51.449
always
01:09:51.449 --> 01:09:51.590
talking.
01:09:51.590 --> 01:09:54.640
We're in a world that we just don't ever listen to'em.
01:09:54.829 --> 01:09:56.000
Yeah, so true.
01:09:56.569 --> 01:10:00.050
All right, you guys, if this was helpful, we would love for you to leave a comment.
01:10:00.060 --> 01:10:03.470
If you still have questions after this episode, we would love for you to reach out.
01:10:03.470 --> 01:10:05.010
You can leave a comment on Spotify.
01:10:05.270 --> 01:10:09.069
You can shoot us an email over at hello@realliferunners.com.
01:10:09.069 --> 01:10:10.340
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01:10:10.340 --> 01:10:14.890
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01:10:14.890 --> 01:10:15.880
Make sure you hit follow.
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:20.970
Make sure you, share, leave us a review, leave us a comment, and help us spread the word.
01:10:20.970 --> 01:10:22.539
Help us to help more runners.
01:10:22.810 --> 01:10:26.140
And stay tuned for part two, where we're gonna be talking more about crewing an ultramarathon.
01:10:26.960 --> 01:10:32.210
So if you want to be a part of someone else's crew, this is gonna be what you need to know.
01:10:32.210 --> 01:10:39.000
Or you can also take that episode and send it to whoever is going to be helping you in your ultramarathon as well.
01:10:39.010 --> 01:10:40.640
So as always, thanks for joining us.
01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:43.430
This has been The Real Life Runners Podcast, episode number 470.
01:10:44.579 --> 01:10:46.284
Now get out there and run your life.