WEBVTT
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So Stephanie, you know, when you go pick up your
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child at school and the teacher tells you that
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your child is delightful, they're really helpful,
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such a pleasure to have in class. But then you
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pick them up and the second that you step outside
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of the school, they scream for, I don't know,
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some random reason, like you peeled the banana.
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You were supposed to leave it closed. I mean,
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she asked for a banana. How was I supposed to
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know? So, you know, we all expected some first
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week tears and adjustment as we're going back
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to school, but it's October. We figured out drop
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-off. We're working through the shoes. We may
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know where the backpack goes, but why is everyone
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still falling apart after school? Welcome back
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to the Rolin -Ford podcast. I'm Dr. Alicia
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Rolin. I'm a pediatrician. And I'm Dr. Stephanie
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Rolin, a psychiatrist. We're sisters, physician,
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researchers, and podcasters. And we started Rolin
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forward to help families make sense of health
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stories, headlines, and misinformation they encounter
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every day. And just a few weeks ago, it might
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feel like a lifetime to you. It does to me. We
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were talking about how to get ready for back
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to school. But now it's October. We're well into
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the swing of things. The new backpacks, they're
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not quite so new. You might have some stains
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on yours. How did slime? Truly do not know. How
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slime? We just can't. How is it everywhere? glitter,
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slime, marker. Truly everywhere. But now it's
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October. The excitement of that first week has
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worn off. But for some families, afternoons are
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still really hard. Because a child can know their
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classroom like their teacher and still come home
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tired, irritable or completely overwhelmed. So
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today we're going to take the time to answer
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three questions. Why can children behave so differently
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at school and at home? What can parents actually
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do to make their afternoons easier? And when
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should we be concerned that something more is
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going on? And I want to start with one important
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point. There isn't a universal deadline when
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every child should feel fully adjusted to school.
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Just because it's been a month doesn't mean that
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every child should suddenly be thriving in their
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new school environment. And unfortunately, the
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school calendar, it doesn't come with an emotional
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completion certificate, either for children or
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parents, because I certainly would like one,
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but they're not handing them out right now. So
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let's start with something I think a lot of parents
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find frustrating. My mom told me this all the
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time. Yeah, this is actually a true story. My
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mom would go to parent -teacher conference, and
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the teacher would tell her that her child was
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wonderful. Alicia would listen, Alicia would
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follow directions, Alicia was kind to her classmates,
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and my mom would be like, is this the same Alicia?
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It also happened to me, so I don't want to single
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Alicia out. It was definitely me. It was definitely
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me. And she would argue with my teachers that
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I was not a good child, or that I was not a polite
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child. Because at home, asking Alicia to put
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on her shoes, it could trigger basically what
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felt like an international incident. And this
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is not just Alicia. This is a lot of kids. Because
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the first thing we have to think about is how
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much school is actually asking of children. When
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children go to school, they are expected to sit
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still, listen to instructions, wait their turn,
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manage friendships. I mean, Marvelle's playground
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is like a chorus of, you're not my best friend.
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You're not my best friend. You're not my best
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friend. My mommy's my best friend. My teacher's
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my best friend. You're not my best friend. It's
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like every day over there. And then kids are
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also moving between activities, following rules.
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And a lot of those tasks depend on something
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that we call executive function. Which is a term
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we hear a lot, but what actually does that mean?
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Executive function are the mental skills that
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help us manage our behavior, attention, and thinking.
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There's a lot that goes into executive functioning,
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but for today we can think about three components.
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First, working memory. Second, cognitive flexibility.
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And third, inhibitory control. Okay, but let's
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translate that into kindergarten. Let's start
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with working memory. This is the ability to hold
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information in your mind long enough to use it.
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So if the teacher says, put away your paper,
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get your coat, line up at the door, your child
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has to remember all of those instructions while
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actually doing them. And ideally not get distracted
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by a particularly interesting shiny pencil. Hello
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Kitty Pen halfway through. Exactly. And then
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second, cognitive flexibility. This is the ability
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to switch between tasks or adjust when plans
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change. So maybe your child is building an incredible
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block tower, but now it's time to clean up and
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go outside. They have to stop doing something
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that they were truly invested in, being the architect.
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of this incredible block tower and then switch
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to something else going outside, which they may
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or may not want to do. This is a skill that,
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you know, some adults are also still working
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on. Absolutely. Cognitive flexibility is a task
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that we're all still managing today. And third,
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inhibitory control. This is the ability to pause
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before acting on an impulse. Have you ever sent
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a 1 a .m. text that you did not mean to? No comment.
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So for children, we can think about how they
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just want to grab a toy from another child, but
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they have to stop themselves before doing this.
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And then throughout the school day, children
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are constantly practicing these skills of working
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memory, cognitive flexibility, and inhibitory
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control over and over and over again. And that's
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because these abilities develop gradually. They're
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not fully mature just because a child has started
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school. A child might be capable of following
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a direction, but they can still find it difficult
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when they're tired, distracted, or frustrated.
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Which explains something parents might say all
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the time. I know they can do it. But sometimes
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that answer might have a little caveat, which
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is under certain conditions, when there's not
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a puppy running around with a glitter princess
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costume while, you know, the boombox is playing.
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I mean, no child is able to put their shoes on
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under those conditions. So being able to do something
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once, like put on your shoes once, doesn't mean
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that you can do it consistently in every single
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situation. And honestly, that applies to adults
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too. Anyone who has ever written an angry email
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after a work event at night and wisely decided
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not to send it into the morning has mastered
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this concept. Whether you've sent that 1 a .m.
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text or not, you understand what we're talking
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about. This is a very important adult executive
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function skill. So, by the time that the school
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day ends, some children have spent hours managing
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transitions, following instructions, and navigating
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honestly quite complex social situations. If
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you've ever seen Mean Girls, you understand the
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complexity of the social situation at school.
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On Wednesdays, we wear pink. And so, you know,
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we shouldn't assume that every child who's struggling
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after school has spent the entire day suppressing
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their emotions. Sometimes they're simply hungry
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or tired or there was a problem during the school
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day or the transition home, it can feel difficult.
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And sometimes many of these things are happening
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at once. But the idea is that at the end of the
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day, children might be really tired. So the banana
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might be the immediate trigger that causes the
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nuclear meltdown. The meltdown is not really
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about the banana. So if you spent any time on
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social media, watching some of these parenting
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TikToks or Instagrams, you've probably heard
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this word, this term, after school restraint
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collapse. Not something I learned in medical
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school, but something very common on social media.
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It's a phrase people use to describe children
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who seem to hold things together during the school
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day, they're little angels, and then they go
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home and have big emotional reactions. And this
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isn't an actual medical diagnosis. It's not a
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formal psychiatric diagnosis. It doesn't describe
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one's scientifically established mechanisms,
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but, you know, it can be a useful way of talking
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about something that families do experience.
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And one explanation you might hear a lot is that
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children act out at home because their parents
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are their safe people. And there's some nuance
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there. It is true that children may feel more
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comfortable expressing difficult emotions around
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their familiar caregivers. But... we should be
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careful about treating every single meltdown
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as proof of a secure attachment. You might want
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to be curious about what's happening and maybe
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your child's overwhelmed by noise and activity
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all day, maybe they're struggling with friendships
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and the mean girls, maybe they're having trouble
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keeping up academically, maybe they're anxious
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about something that's happening at school, or
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they're four and they were skipping instead of
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eating lunch and now it's been a really long
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day. Which, you know, are all really reasonable
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explanations about why the banana lunched the
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meltdown. The point here isn't to assume that
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every child has the same problem. It's to figure
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out what makes things difficult for your particular
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child. But here's the question that I think makes
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this especially frustrating for parents. It's
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October. Shouldn't this be getting easier? They've
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been in school consistently for four plus weeks.
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Often, yes. As children become familiar with
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their teachers, the routines, and classmates,
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Some of the stress associated with starting school
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may decrease and it may become easier. But the
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reality is that familiarity does not eliminate
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every demand. So knowing where your classroom
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is doesn't make the school day less tiring. Like
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starting a new job. At first, everything is unfamiliar
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and that can be stressful. And now a month in,
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you know where the bathroom is, you figured out
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the computer system, you know your colleagues.
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But that doesn't mean that this new job has suddenly
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become easy. So, you know, sometimes what looks
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like an adjustment problem is actually a sign
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that something about the school environment just
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isn't working well for that child. And what are
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examples of what that might mean? Well, let's
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think about a child who has difficulty with sensory
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input. Maybe the classroom is loud. Maybe the
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cafeteria is overwhelming or transitions from
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one activity to another happen too quickly. Or
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we have a child who may have ADHD and is working
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hard to manage attention and impulses throughout
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the day. Or a child who's struggling to understand
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instructions and keep up with the schoolwork.
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These children might need different supports
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throughout the school day, not just a better
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afternoon routine. Because you can't fix these
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issues that are happening during the day with
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a cheese stick after school. Although the cheese
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stick definitely will help with hunger. It's
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so true. It's so true. And hunger is a piece
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of this for sure. The after -school hunger is
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for real. It is. Marbella's like a hangry monster.
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She keeps saying, I'm hangry. She doesn't know
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the word hungry. She only knows the word hangry
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and it's adorable. I'm like, you are, you are.
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But within that, we should pay attention to the
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pattern. Is your child gradually adjusting? Do
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things seem to be getting better? Do they recover
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after a difficult afternoon and then go on to
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enjoy their evening? Or does it feel like it's
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October and things are getting worse and they're
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increasingly anxious about going to school. Maybe
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they're starting to have trouble sleeping or
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complaining about headaches or stomach aches
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or starting to withdraw from activities they
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used to enjoy. Because these patterns might suggest
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that we need to look a little bit more closely
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into what's happening during their day. And we
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shouldn't automatically assume that everything
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is fine just because the teacher says that they
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are well behaved at school. So let's get practical.
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It's October and your child is melting down every
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single day after school. What should you try
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tomorrow? First, think about what happens immediately
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after pickup. Sometimes we are asking children
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to do a lot during that transition. We want them
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to get in the car, put on their seatbelt, tell
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me about school, stop hitting your sister, what
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homework do you have, let's hurry up, we're late
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for soccer. And maybe everyone is hungry, including
00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:07.080
you. So the first thing I suggest is reducing
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some of those immediate demands when possible.
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Which does not mean abandoning the schedule or
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never asking your child to do anything. It might
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just mean greeting them, taking a moment to offer
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a snack or some water, and then give them a little
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bit of time before starting to ask your questions.
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And I think that food piece is really important,
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especially for younger kids. We assume that they've
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eaten lunch because lunch was provided. But that's
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not always true. Sometimes more exciting things
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happen during lunchtime. Sometimes lunch was
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rushed, or maybe they couldn't open something
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in their lunchbox, or they were distracted by
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friends, or they just didn't like what was available.
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So if your child is coming home starving every
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day, that's worth investigating. Then think about
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what helps your particular child settle. Some
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children, they want to talk immediately. Some
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want to sit close to a parent. Some want quiet
00:14:02.669 --> 00:14:05.590
time. Others need movement. Think about what
00:14:05.590 --> 00:14:08.149
it is that your child needs in order to feel
00:14:08.149 --> 00:14:10.490
settled. And this doesn't need to become another
00:14:10.490 --> 00:14:13.110
complicated parenting protocol where every minute
00:14:13.110 --> 00:14:16.190
is structured. You don't need this perfectly
00:14:16.190 --> 00:14:19.879
curated 30 -minute decompression routine. There's
00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.740
no one scientifically required amount of decompression
00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:25.639
time for every child. Maybe your family has a
00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:27.960
long commute or you're going straight to another
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.700
activity or you have three other kids to pick
00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:33.899
up. The goal is simply to make this transition
00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.730
a little less demanding where you can. And I
00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:39.669
love the idea of giving small choices in this
00:14:39.669 --> 00:14:42.879
transition period. Do you want to sit with me
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:45.360
or do you want to play while I'm making dinner?
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.200
Do you want me to put the music on or do you
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.320
want me to leave the music off? The important
00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:55.539
part is giving two reasonable options, both of
00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:57.659
which that you are okay with. Yeah, they have
00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:59.980
to both be options that you will endorse and
00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.610
can provide. And you don't want to provide an
00:15:02.610 --> 00:15:05.429
entire menu of recreational activities. It's
00:15:05.429 --> 00:15:08.169
not summer camp. There's no brochure. These are
00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:10.149
the two options that you have for after school
00:15:10.149 --> 00:15:12.690
today. And if you've crossed that threshold,
00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:16.110
your child is really upset. That is not the moment
00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:20.629
to dig in and get into a long lecture or a long
00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:23.470
explanation. We've talked about this before.
00:15:23.750 --> 00:15:27.830
Kids are not in a space for learning when they
00:15:27.830 --> 00:15:30.970
are actively experiencing a meltdown. Keep it
00:15:30.970 --> 00:15:35.379
simple. I know you're upset. I'm here. I won't
00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:38.830
let you hit. Let me know when you're ready. Then
00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:41.330
later, once everyone is calmer, you can talk
00:15:41.330 --> 00:15:43.350
about what happened and practice what to do next
00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:45.950
time. In our family, we call these do -overs
00:15:45.950 --> 00:15:48.809
and that when everyone is calm again and we're
00:15:48.809 --> 00:15:52.149
ready, we ask, hey, do you want to do that over?
00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.059
And sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. But
00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:58.240
when we do, it's an opportunity to practice new
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:01.769
skills. and recreate the situation and try again.
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.299
Okay, Alicia, I have three scenarios for you,
00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:07.799
and you have to tell me what a parent should
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:13.860
do. Okay. So, first scenario one. Okay, I'm ready.
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:18.360
Your child gets home from school every day and
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.220
immediately starts crying, arguing, just is really
00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:25.720
upset, difficult to reason with. And you've noticed
00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:30.269
their lunchbox is pretty much full. at the end
00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:34.710
of the day. Oh, someone is hangry. We know all
00:16:34.710 --> 00:16:37.149
about this. Oh, I know all about hangar at the
00:16:37.149 --> 00:16:41.409
end of the school day. So first, first thing
00:16:41.409 --> 00:16:45.909
first, feed them. Offer food. Offer food. And
00:16:45.909 --> 00:16:47.649
then find out what's happening at lunch. You
00:16:47.649 --> 00:16:50.049
can call the school. You can ask your child.
00:16:50.509 --> 00:16:52.090
Try and figure out what's happening at lunch.
00:16:52.190 --> 00:16:54.210
Are they getting enough time to eat? Can they
00:16:54.210 --> 00:16:56.629
open everything in their lunchbox? Is the cafeteria
00:16:56.629 --> 00:16:58.759
too overwhelming? Are they too distracted to
00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.440
eat because there's hopscotch? Don't assume that
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.519
hunger explains all the emotions, but also don't
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:06.839
ignore that hunger is a really big driver of
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.019
emotions. Truly, truly. I love that explanation.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.809
Okay. Scenario two. You pick up your child from
00:17:14.809 --> 00:17:17.849
school. You know, every day they seem perfectly
00:17:17.849 --> 00:17:20.470
happy about pickup, but they start to get increasingly
00:17:20.470 --> 00:17:23.630
frustrated as you ask them about their day. Maybe
00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:25.450
you're reminding them about homework, telling
00:17:25.450 --> 00:17:27.470
them to change their clothes, that as the day
00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.849
goes on, They're just getting more and more irritated
00:17:30.849 --> 00:17:36.069
and frustrated. Mom. You know, you know. Just
00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:39.869
pause the interview. That's it? That's it. Give
00:17:39.869 --> 00:17:43.150
him space and save the non -urgent questions
00:17:43.150 --> 00:17:46.630
for later. Sometimes a little down quiet time
00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:48.829
can really let kids process how they're feeling
00:17:48.829 --> 00:17:50.490
and what they're thinking about their day and
00:17:50.490 --> 00:17:54.230
transition to the next part. Okay. Scenario three.
00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:57.619
Your child has started saying that they do not
00:17:57.619 --> 00:18:00.099
want to go to school. You've noticed that they're
00:18:00.099 --> 00:18:02.420
sleeping poorly. Every morning they're saying
00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:04.940
that they have a stomach ache. And eventually
00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:07.299
they tell you that they're afraid of another
00:18:07.299 --> 00:18:10.160
student. And so this scenario is a little bit
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.900
different and has me a little bit more concerned.
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:14.259
And we shouldn't just call this after school
00:18:14.259 --> 00:18:16.740
restraint collapse. You need to figure out what's
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:18.500
happening at school. You should talk with your
00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:20.880
child, contact the school, involve their pediatrician
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.759
if symptoms are persistent or interfering with
00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.289
daily life. And if there's a bullying or safety
00:18:25.289 --> 00:18:27.329
concern, the school really needs to address it.
00:18:27.890 --> 00:18:29.950
So the answer isn't always that a parent just
00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:32.809
needs a better snack or acquired a car ride.
00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:35.289
Sometimes there is something happening during
00:18:35.289 --> 00:18:37.829
the school day, and that's where parents need
00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:41.250
to intervene. So let's talk about when parents
00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:43.230
should be concerned. Because we don't want to
00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:46.069
pathologize every difficult afternoon, but we
00:18:46.069 --> 00:18:47.329
also don't want to miss something important.
00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:50.750
First, with anything that's happening with your
00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:53.970
child, look at how often it's happening. how
00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:56.750
intense it is, and whether things seem to be
00:18:56.750 --> 00:19:00.279
improving. A child who occasionally cries after
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:02.859
a long day, then they eat dinner and happily
00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:06.140
play, they do their bedtime routine, that's different
00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:09.000
from a child whose distress is becoming more
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.640
frequent, more intense, or harder to recover
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.910
from. And it's important to look beyond the afternoon
00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.589
itself. Are they sleeping? Are they eating normally?
00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:20.710
Are they enjoying activities? Are they attending
00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:23.559
school? Are they having frequent physical complaints?
00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.579
Stomach ache is a big one. And if you notice
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:29.420
something that is persistent, worsening, and
00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:32.059
starting to interfere with everyday life, this
00:19:32.059 --> 00:19:34.599
is a good time to talk to your pediatrician.
00:19:35.099 --> 00:19:37.160
I also want to emphasize, we talk a lot about
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.220
headaches and stomach aches being a frequent
00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:41.619
manifestation of anxiety, but not all headaches
00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:44.000
and stomach aches are due to anxiety, and so
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.660
they shouldn't automatically be dismissed. Talk
00:19:46.660 --> 00:19:48.660
to your pediatrician. There are stomach bugs
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:51.400
that make people feel bad, and that might be
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.200
happening. You can also talk to the teachers.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.279
Not in an accusatory way, but to compare notes.
00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:01.420
You could say to your teacher, hey, pick -up
00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:04.960
has been really hard most afternoons. Have you
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:06.839
noticed anything during the day that could be
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.000
contributing? And ask specific questions. Are
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.960
they eating lunch? Do they seem comfortable with
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.500
classmates? Are there certain transitions that
00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:16.480
are difficult for them? Are they able to ask
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.970
for help when they need it? Because, quote, they're
00:20:19.970 --> 00:20:23.150
good all day, doesn't tell us what we actually
00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:26.769
need to know. And then there are some more urgent
00:20:26.769 --> 00:20:30.849
situations. If in your family a child is repeatedly
00:20:30.849 --> 00:20:33.769
hurting themselves or others, if you feel that
00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:36.250
aggression is escalating and becoming unsafe,
00:20:36.750 --> 00:20:38.809
or if your child is talking about wanting to
00:20:38.809 --> 00:20:41.930
die or seriously hurt someone, that is the time
00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:44.970
to really seek out prompt professional evaluation.
00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:47.829
Whenever there's an immediate risk of serious
00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:51.500
harm, get emergency help. And you don't have
00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.500
to wait until things reach that point to ask
00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:57.140
for support. If your child is struggling, that's
00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:00.160
a perfectly good reason to reach out. The question
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.819
isn't always, is this normal? It's, what does
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.779
my particular child need and is what we're doing
00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:09.109
helping? And pediatricians, they are there to
00:21:09.109 --> 00:21:11.690
partner with you on this journey of discovery.
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.059
Okay, so let's wrap up with three things that
00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:18.000
we want parents to remember. Let's go. First,
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:20.680
a child can have a good day at school and a difficult
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.109
afternoon at home. Those things aren't necessarily
00:21:24.109 --> 00:21:26.309
contradictory. When the teacher says that your
00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:28.210
child is an angel at school and then they come
00:21:28.210 --> 00:21:30.049
home and they're a little demon, doesn't mean
00:21:30.049 --> 00:21:32.470
the teacher's lying. There's all kinds of reasons.
00:21:32.970 --> 00:21:36.890
So second, look for patterns. Hunger, fatigue,
00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:40.049
transitions, friendships, learning demands, sensory
00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:43.109
stress, all of these can contribute to difficult
00:21:43.109 --> 00:21:46.569
afternoons, and sometimes a small change can
00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:49.589
bring a big difference. Maybe that means bringing
00:21:49.589 --> 00:21:52.650
a snack to pick up or waiting until dinner to
00:21:52.650 --> 00:21:56.279
ask about school. Or a little quiet time to write
00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.230
a pick -up or a chance to move around. And third,
00:22:00.329 --> 00:22:02.930
don't assume every difficult afternoon is just
00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:05.900
a phase. If your child is increasingly distressed,
00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:08.839
avoiding school, having frequent physical symptoms,
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:10.819
or struggling in ways that interfere with daily
00:22:10.819 --> 00:22:13.380
life, that's the time to talk to their teacher
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:16.059
and their pediatrician. And the other thing that
00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:18.920
I would emphasize is that, you know, as a parent,
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:20.960
you don't have to completely redesign your life
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.720
to make an afternoon easier. You can pick one
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.220
small thing to try, maybe a favorite snack at
00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:31.420
pickup, maybe a favorite song, first thing in
00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:35.630
the car, or some quiet time. See whether it helps.
00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:38.470
Maybe your child recovers more quickly or there's
00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:40.829
less conflict or you learn something new about
00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:43.690
what's making their day difficult. The goal isn't
00:22:43.690 --> 00:22:47.690
zero tears or a perfectly peaceful evening every
00:22:47.690 --> 00:22:50.650
single day. It is understanding your child and
00:22:50.650 --> 00:22:53.190
their needs a little bit better and then helping
00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:55.130
them develop the skills and support that they
00:22:55.130 --> 00:22:59.250
need. And you should also recognize that sometimes
00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:02.150
parents have had a long day too. How did you
00:23:02.150 --> 00:23:11.970
know? How did you know? So with that, thank you
00:23:11.970 --> 00:23:13.990
for joining us for this week's episode of the
00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:16.509
Rolin Forward podcast. I'm Dr. Alicia Rolin.
00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:18.809
I'm Dr. Stephanie Rolin. If you enjoyed this
00:23:18.809 --> 00:23:21.210
episode, share it with a friend or leave us a
00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:23.670
review. It really helps other listeners find
00:23:23.670 --> 00:23:26.210
the show. You can also find us on social media
00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:33.069
or email us at rolinforwardshow .com. We'd love
00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:35.170
to know what helps make your family make the
00:23:35.170 --> 00:23:37.779
transition home after school better. Thanks for
00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:39.559
listening and we will see you next week.
00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.740
So Stephanie, you know, when you go pick up your
00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:06.719
child at school and the teacher tells you that
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:09.580
your child is delightful, they're really helpful,
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.119
such a pleasure to have in class. But then you
00:00:13.119 --> 00:00:16.120
pick them up and the second that you step outside
00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.940
of the school, they scream for, I don't know,
00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:21.780
some random reason, like you peeled the banana.
00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:24.239
You were supposed to leave it closed. I mean,
00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:27.019
she asked for a banana. How was I supposed to
00:00:27.019 --> 00:00:29.910
know? So, you know, we all expected some first
00:00:29.910 --> 00:00:32.329
week tears and adjustment as we're going back
00:00:32.329 --> 00:00:36.189
to school, but it's October. We figured out drop
00:00:36.189 --> 00:00:39.630
-off. We're working through the shoes. We may
00:00:39.630 --> 00:00:42.350
know where the backpack goes, but why is everyone
00:00:42.350 --> 00:00:51.630
still falling apart after school? Welcome back
00:00:51.630 --> 00:00:54.450
to the Rolin -Ford podcast. I'm Dr. Alicia
00:00:54.450 --> 00:00:57.229
Rolin. I'm a pediatrician. And I'm Dr. Stephanie
00:00:57.229 --> 00:01:00.549
Rolin, a psychiatrist. We're sisters, physician,
00:01:00.829 --> 00:01:03.619
researchers, and podcasters. And we started Rolin
00:01:03.619 --> 00:01:05.480
forward to help families make sense of health
00:01:05.480 --> 00:01:07.680
stories, headlines, and misinformation they encounter
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.530
every day. And just a few weeks ago, it might
00:01:11.530 --> 00:01:14.370
feel like a lifetime to you. It does to me. We
00:01:14.370 --> 00:01:16.150
were talking about how to get ready for back
00:01:16.150 --> 00:01:20.090
to school. But now it's October. We're well into
00:01:20.090 --> 00:01:22.230
the swing of things. The new backpacks, they're
00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:24.310
not quite so new. You might have some stains
00:01:24.310 --> 00:01:28.510
on yours. How did slime? Truly do not know. How
00:01:28.510 --> 00:01:32.120
slime? We just can't. How is it everywhere? glitter,
00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.760
slime, marker. Truly everywhere. But now it's
00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:38.879
October. The excitement of that first week has
00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.599
worn off. But for some families, afternoons are
00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:45.659
still really hard. Because a child can know their
00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:47.959
classroom like their teacher and still come home
00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:51.420
tired, irritable or completely overwhelmed. So
00:01:51.420 --> 00:01:53.340
today we're going to take the time to answer
00:01:53.340 --> 00:01:57.319
three questions. Why can children behave so differently
00:01:57.319 --> 00:02:00.909
at school and at home? What can parents actually
00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:03.650
do to make their afternoons easier? And when
00:02:03.650 --> 00:02:05.349
should we be concerned that something more is
00:02:05.349 --> 00:02:12.319
going on? And I want to start with one important
00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.759
point. There isn't a universal deadline when
00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:18.539
every child should feel fully adjusted to school.
00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:21.319
Just because it's been a month doesn't mean that
00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:23.659
every child should suddenly be thriving in their
00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:26.460
new school environment. And unfortunately, the
00:02:26.460 --> 00:02:28.520
school calendar, it doesn't come with an emotional
00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.439
completion certificate, either for children or
00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:33.240
parents, because I certainly would like one,
00:02:33.300 --> 00:02:36.340
but they're not handing them out right now. So
00:02:36.340 --> 00:02:38.120
let's start with something I think a lot of parents
00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.909
find frustrating. My mom told me this all the
00:02:40.909 --> 00:02:44.360
time. Yeah, this is actually a true story. My
00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.360
mom would go to parent -teacher conference, and
00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:49.919
the teacher would tell her that her child was
00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:54.759
wonderful. Alicia would listen, Alicia would
00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:58.800
follow directions, Alicia was kind to her classmates,
00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.300
and my mom would be like, is this the same Alicia?
00:03:03.210 --> 00:03:05.389
It also happened to me, so I don't want to single
00:03:05.389 --> 00:03:08.310
Alicia out. It was definitely me. It was definitely
00:03:08.310 --> 00:03:10.770
me. And she would argue with my teachers that
00:03:10.770 --> 00:03:14.270
I was not a good child, or that I was not a polite
00:03:14.270 --> 00:03:17.069
child. Because at home, asking Alicia to put
00:03:17.069 --> 00:03:20.669
on her shoes, it could trigger basically what
00:03:20.669 --> 00:03:23.419
felt like an international incident. And this
00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:27.860
is not just Alicia. This is a lot of kids. Because
00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:30.219
the first thing we have to think about is how
00:03:30.219 --> 00:03:34.009
much school is actually asking of children. When
00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:37.150
children go to school, they are expected to sit
00:03:37.150 --> 00:03:40.830
still, listen to instructions, wait their turn,
00:03:41.370 --> 00:03:45.870
manage friendships. I mean, Marvelle's playground
00:03:45.870 --> 00:03:48.909
is like a chorus of, you're not my best friend.
00:03:49.169 --> 00:03:51.169
You're not my best friend. You're not my best
00:03:51.169 --> 00:03:54.090
friend. My mommy's my best friend. My teacher's
00:03:54.090 --> 00:03:56.370
my best friend. You're not my best friend. It's
00:03:56.370 --> 00:03:58.729
like every day over there. And then kids are
00:03:58.729 --> 00:04:02.129
also moving between activities, following rules.
00:04:02.419 --> 00:04:04.360
And a lot of those tasks depend on something
00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:08.129
that we call executive function. Which is a term
00:04:08.129 --> 00:04:11.169
we hear a lot, but what actually does that mean?
00:04:11.930 --> 00:04:14.229
Executive function are the mental skills that
00:04:14.229 --> 00:04:17.490
help us manage our behavior, attention, and thinking.
00:04:18.629 --> 00:04:21.009
There's a lot that goes into executive functioning,
00:04:21.170 --> 00:04:23.529
but for today we can think about three components.
00:04:24.250 --> 00:04:28.649
First, working memory. Second, cognitive flexibility.
00:04:29.149 --> 00:04:32.689
And third, inhibitory control. Okay, but let's
00:04:32.689 --> 00:04:36.089
translate that into kindergarten. Let's start
00:04:36.089 --> 00:04:39.839
with working memory. This is the ability to hold
00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.199
information in your mind long enough to use it.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.660
So if the teacher says, put away your paper,
00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:50.339
get your coat, line up at the door, your child
00:04:50.339 --> 00:04:53.399
has to remember all of those instructions while
00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:57.490
actually doing them. And ideally not get distracted
00:04:57.490 --> 00:05:01.310
by a particularly interesting shiny pencil. Hello
00:05:01.310 --> 00:05:05.439
Kitty Pen halfway through. Exactly. And then
00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:09.079
second, cognitive flexibility. This is the ability
00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:11.860
to switch between tasks or adjust when plans
00:05:11.860 --> 00:05:17.879
change. So maybe your child is building an incredible
00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:22.149
block tower, but now it's time to clean up and
00:05:22.149 --> 00:05:25.569
go outside. They have to stop doing something
00:05:25.569 --> 00:05:28.970
that they were truly invested in, being the architect.
00:05:29.149 --> 00:05:32.910
of this incredible block tower and then switch
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to something else going outside, which they may
00:05:36.050 --> 00:05:38.850
or may not want to do. This is a skill that,
00:05:38.850 --> 00:05:40.689
you know, some adults are also still working
00:05:40.689 --> 00:05:43.829
on. Absolutely. Cognitive flexibility is a task
00:05:43.829 --> 00:05:47.579
that we're all still managing today. And third,
00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:52.360
inhibitory control. This is the ability to pause
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before acting on an impulse. Have you ever sent
00:05:56.139 --> 00:06:00.110
a 1 a .m. text that you did not mean to? No comment.
00:06:01.009 --> 00:06:03.430
So for children, we can think about how they
00:06:03.430 --> 00:06:06.449
just want to grab a toy from another child, but
00:06:06.449 --> 00:06:09.110
they have to stop themselves before doing this.
00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:11.930
And then throughout the school day, children
00:06:11.930 --> 00:06:15.189
are constantly practicing these skills of working
00:06:15.189 --> 00:06:18.189
memory, cognitive flexibility, and inhibitory
00:06:18.189 --> 00:06:21.689
control over and over and over again. And that's
00:06:21.689 --> 00:06:24.250
because these abilities develop gradually. They're
00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:26.470
not fully mature just because a child has started
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school. A child might be capable of following
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a direction, but they can still find it difficult
00:06:30.990 --> 00:06:33.290
when they're tired, distracted, or frustrated.
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Which explains something parents might say all
00:06:35.730 --> 00:06:39.899
the time. I know they can do it. But sometimes
00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:41.699
that answer might have a little caveat, which
00:06:41.699 --> 00:06:44.600
is under certain conditions, when there's not
00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.180
a puppy running around with a glitter princess
00:06:47.180 --> 00:06:50.759
costume while, you know, the boombox is playing.
00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.500
I mean, no child is able to put their shoes on
00:06:53.500 --> 00:06:57.779
under those conditions. So being able to do something
00:06:57.779 --> 00:07:01.000
once, like put on your shoes once, doesn't mean
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.839
that you can do it consistently in every single
00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.759
situation. And honestly, that applies to adults
00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:09.740
too. Anyone who has ever written an angry email
00:07:09.740 --> 00:07:13.560
after a work event at night and wisely decided
00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:15.939
not to send it into the morning has mastered
00:07:15.939 --> 00:07:18.360
this concept. Whether you've sent that 1 a .m.
00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:20.720
text or not, you understand what we're talking
00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:24.540
about. This is a very important adult executive
00:07:24.540 --> 00:07:28.040
function skill. So, by the time that the school
00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.740
day ends, some children have spent hours managing
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transitions, following instructions, and navigating
00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.579
honestly quite complex social situations. If
00:07:37.579 --> 00:07:40.649
you've ever seen Mean Girls, you understand the
00:07:40.649 --> 00:07:43.069
complexity of the social situation at school.
00:07:43.290 --> 00:07:46.610
On Wednesdays, we wear pink. And so, you know,
00:07:46.610 --> 00:07:48.990
we shouldn't assume that every child who's struggling
00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:51.509
after school has spent the entire day suppressing
00:07:51.509 --> 00:07:54.699
their emotions. Sometimes they're simply hungry
00:07:54.699 --> 00:07:58.000
or tired or there was a problem during the school
00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.220
day or the transition home, it can feel difficult.
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:04.139
And sometimes many of these things are happening
00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.220
at once. But the idea is that at the end of the
00:08:07.220 --> 00:08:10.680
day, children might be really tired. So the banana
00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:13.420
might be the immediate trigger that causes the
00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:16.279
nuclear meltdown. The meltdown is not really
00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:21.949
about the banana. So if you spent any time on
00:08:21.949 --> 00:08:24.350
social media, watching some of these parenting
00:08:24.350 --> 00:08:27.129
TikToks or Instagrams, you've probably heard
00:08:27.129 --> 00:08:30.050
this word, this term, after school restraint
00:08:30.050 --> 00:08:32.509
collapse. Not something I learned in medical
00:08:32.509 --> 00:08:35.009
school, but something very common on social media.
00:08:35.509 --> 00:08:37.509
It's a phrase people use to describe children
00:08:37.509 --> 00:08:39.549
who seem to hold things together during the school
00:08:39.549 --> 00:08:41.970
day, they're little angels, and then they go
00:08:41.970 --> 00:08:45.830
home and have big emotional reactions. And this
00:08:45.830 --> 00:08:48.649
isn't an actual medical diagnosis. It's not a
00:08:48.649 --> 00:08:52.779
formal psychiatric diagnosis. It doesn't describe
00:08:52.779 --> 00:08:54.940
one's scientifically established mechanisms,
00:08:55.299 --> 00:08:57.899
but, you know, it can be a useful way of talking
00:08:57.899 --> 00:09:00.120
about something that families do experience.
00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:03.320
And one explanation you might hear a lot is that
00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:05.519
children act out at home because their parents
00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:08.480
are their safe people. And there's some nuance
00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.320
there. It is true that children may feel more
00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:13.899
comfortable expressing difficult emotions around
00:09:13.899 --> 00:09:17.200
their familiar caregivers. But... we should be
00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.720
careful about treating every single meltdown
00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:23.539
as proof of a secure attachment. You might want
00:09:23.539 --> 00:09:25.399
to be curious about what's happening and maybe
00:09:25.399 --> 00:09:27.559
your child's overwhelmed by noise and activity
00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:29.799
all day, maybe they're struggling with friendships
00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:32.600
and the mean girls, maybe they're having trouble
00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:35.039
keeping up academically, maybe they're anxious
00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.360
about something that's happening at school, or
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:39.960
they're four and they were skipping instead of
00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.840
eating lunch and now it's been a really long
00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:44.720
day. Which, you know, are all really reasonable
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.659
explanations about why the banana lunched the
00:09:47.659 --> 00:09:51.009
meltdown. The point here isn't to assume that
00:09:51.009 --> 00:09:53.529
every child has the same problem. It's to figure
00:09:53.529 --> 00:09:56.370
out what makes things difficult for your particular
00:09:56.370 --> 00:09:58.850
child. But here's the question that I think makes
00:09:58.850 --> 00:10:01.210
this especially frustrating for parents. It's
00:10:01.210 --> 00:10:03.870
October. Shouldn't this be getting easier? They've
00:10:03.870 --> 00:10:06.750
been in school consistently for four plus weeks.
00:10:07.250 --> 00:10:10.230
Often, yes. As children become familiar with
00:10:10.230 --> 00:10:12.289
their teachers, the routines, and classmates,
00:10:12.590 --> 00:10:15.450
Some of the stress associated with starting school
00:10:15.450 --> 00:10:19.210
may decrease and it may become easier. But the
00:10:19.210 --> 00:10:22.389
reality is that familiarity does not eliminate
00:10:22.389 --> 00:10:24.950
every demand. So knowing where your classroom
00:10:24.950 --> 00:10:28.470
is doesn't make the school day less tiring. Like
00:10:28.470 --> 00:10:32.090
starting a new job. At first, everything is unfamiliar
00:10:32.090 --> 00:10:34.970
and that can be stressful. And now a month in,
00:10:35.090 --> 00:10:37.110
you know where the bathroom is, you figured out
00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:39.289
the computer system, you know your colleagues.
00:10:39.629 --> 00:10:43.190
But that doesn't mean that this new job has suddenly
00:10:43.190 --> 00:10:47.409
become easy. So, you know, sometimes what looks
00:10:47.409 --> 00:10:49.730
like an adjustment problem is actually a sign
00:10:49.730 --> 00:10:51.669
that something about the school environment just
00:10:51.669 --> 00:10:54.840
isn't working well for that child. And what are
00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:57.399
examples of what that might mean? Well, let's
00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.799
think about a child who has difficulty with sensory
00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:03.820
input. Maybe the classroom is loud. Maybe the
00:11:03.820 --> 00:11:06.940
cafeteria is overwhelming or transitions from
00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:10.019
one activity to another happen too quickly. Or
00:11:10.019 --> 00:11:13.100
we have a child who may have ADHD and is working
00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:15.179
hard to manage attention and impulses throughout
00:11:15.179 --> 00:11:18.279
the day. Or a child who's struggling to understand
00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.259
instructions and keep up with the schoolwork.
00:11:21.269 --> 00:11:23.009
These children might need different supports
00:11:23.009 --> 00:11:25.750
throughout the school day, not just a better
00:11:25.750 --> 00:11:28.750
afternoon routine. Because you can't fix these
00:11:28.750 --> 00:11:31.629
issues that are happening during the day with
00:11:31.629 --> 00:11:35.330
a cheese stick after school. Although the cheese
00:11:35.330 --> 00:11:37.110
stick definitely will help with hunger. It's
00:11:37.110 --> 00:11:38.669
so true. It's so true. And hunger is a piece
00:11:38.669 --> 00:11:41.429
of this for sure. The after -school hunger is
00:11:41.429 --> 00:11:44.789
for real. It is. Marbella's like a hangry monster.
00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:48.190
She keeps saying, I'm hangry. She doesn't know
00:11:48.190 --> 00:11:50.129
the word hungry. She only knows the word hangry
00:11:50.129 --> 00:11:52.350
and it's adorable. I'm like, you are, you are.
00:11:53.090 --> 00:11:55.190
But within that, we should pay attention to the
00:11:55.190 --> 00:11:58.529
pattern. Is your child gradually adjusting? Do
00:11:58.529 --> 00:12:01.649
things seem to be getting better? Do they recover
00:12:01.649 --> 00:12:04.029
after a difficult afternoon and then go on to
00:12:04.029 --> 00:12:06.769
enjoy their evening? Or does it feel like it's
00:12:06.769 --> 00:12:09.710
October and things are getting worse and they're
00:12:09.710 --> 00:12:12.950
increasingly anxious about going to school. Maybe
00:12:12.950 --> 00:12:15.149
they're starting to have trouble sleeping or
00:12:15.149 --> 00:12:17.789
complaining about headaches or stomach aches
00:12:17.789 --> 00:12:19.970
or starting to withdraw from activities they
00:12:19.970 --> 00:12:23.169
used to enjoy. Because these patterns might suggest
00:12:23.169 --> 00:12:24.950
that we need to look a little bit more closely
00:12:24.950 --> 00:12:26.950
into what's happening during their day. And we
00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:28.690
shouldn't automatically assume that everything
00:12:28.690 --> 00:12:31.090
is fine just because the teacher says that they
00:12:31.090 --> 00:12:34.789
are well behaved at school. So let's get practical.
00:12:35.470 --> 00:12:38.909
It's October and your child is melting down every
00:12:38.909 --> 00:12:41.700
single day after school. What should you try
00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:45.919
tomorrow? First, think about what happens immediately
00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:48.759
after pickup. Sometimes we are asking children
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.940
to do a lot during that transition. We want them
00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:54.899
to get in the car, put on their seatbelt, tell
00:12:54.899 --> 00:12:57.940
me about school, stop hitting your sister, what
00:12:57.940 --> 00:13:00.379
homework do you have, let's hurry up, we're late
00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:03.940
for soccer. And maybe everyone is hungry, including
00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:07.080
you. So the first thing I suggest is reducing
00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:09.379
some of those immediate demands when possible.
00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.059
Which does not mean abandoning the schedule or
00:13:13.059 --> 00:13:16.730
never asking your child to do anything. It might
00:13:16.730 --> 00:13:20.570
just mean greeting them, taking a moment to offer
00:13:20.570 --> 00:13:23.509
a snack or some water, and then give them a little
00:13:23.509 --> 00:13:26.070
bit of time before starting to ask your questions.
00:13:27.330 --> 00:13:29.190
And I think that food piece is really important,
00:13:29.289 --> 00:13:31.990
especially for younger kids. We assume that they've
00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:34.710
eaten lunch because lunch was provided. But that's
00:13:34.710 --> 00:13:37.330
not always true. Sometimes more exciting things
00:13:37.330 --> 00:13:40.210
happen during lunchtime. Sometimes lunch was
00:13:40.210 --> 00:13:42.669
rushed, or maybe they couldn't open something
00:13:42.669 --> 00:13:45.049
in their lunchbox, or they were distracted by
00:13:45.049 --> 00:13:47.809
friends, or they just didn't like what was available.
00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:51.100
So if your child is coming home starving every
00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:53.639
day, that's worth investigating. Then think about
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.940
what helps your particular child settle. Some
00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.850
children, they want to talk immediately. Some
00:13:59.850 --> 00:14:02.669
want to sit close to a parent. Some want quiet
00:14:02.669 --> 00:14:05.590
time. Others need movement. Think about what
00:14:05.590 --> 00:14:08.149
it is that your child needs in order to feel
00:14:08.149 --> 00:14:10.490
settled. And this doesn't need to become another
00:14:10.490 --> 00:14:13.110
complicated parenting protocol where every minute
00:14:13.110 --> 00:14:16.190
is structured. You don't need this perfectly
00:14:16.190 --> 00:14:19.879
curated 30 -minute decompression routine. There's
00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.740
no one scientifically required amount of decompression
00:14:22.740 --> 00:14:25.639
time for every child. Maybe your family has a
00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:27.960
long commute or you're going straight to another
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.700
activity or you have three other kids to pick
00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:33.899
up. The goal is simply to make this transition
00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.730
a little less demanding where you can. And I
00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:39.669
love the idea of giving small choices in this
00:14:39.669 --> 00:14:42.879
transition period. Do you want to sit with me
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:45.360
or do you want to play while I'm making dinner?
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.200
Do you want me to put the music on or do you
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.320
want me to leave the music off? The important
00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:55.539
part is giving two reasonable options, both of
00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:57.659
which that you are okay with. Yeah, they have
00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:59.980
to both be options that you will endorse and
00:14:59.980 --> 00:15:02.610
can provide. And you don't want to provide an
00:15:02.610 --> 00:15:05.429
entire menu of recreational activities. It's
00:15:05.429 --> 00:15:08.169
not summer camp. There's no brochure. These are
00:15:08.169 --> 00:15:10.149
the two options that you have for after school
00:15:10.149 --> 00:15:12.690
today. And if you've crossed that threshold,
00:15:13.110 --> 00:15:16.110
your child is really upset. That is not the moment
00:15:16.110 --> 00:15:20.629
to dig in and get into a long lecture or a long
00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:23.470
explanation. We've talked about this before.
00:15:23.750 --> 00:15:27.830
Kids are not in a space for learning when they
00:15:27.830 --> 00:15:30.970
are actively experiencing a meltdown. Keep it
00:15:30.970 --> 00:15:35.379
simple. I know you're upset. I'm here. I won't
00:15:35.379 --> 00:15:38.830
let you hit. Let me know when you're ready. Then
00:15:38.830 --> 00:15:41.330
later, once everyone is calmer, you can talk
00:15:41.330 --> 00:15:43.350
about what happened and practice what to do next
00:15:43.350 --> 00:15:45.950
time. In our family, we call these do -overs
00:15:45.950 --> 00:15:48.809
and that when everyone is calm again and we're
00:15:48.809 --> 00:15:52.149
ready, we ask, hey, do you want to do that over?
00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:56.059
And sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. But
00:15:56.059 --> 00:15:58.240
when we do, it's an opportunity to practice new
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:01.769
skills. and recreate the situation and try again.
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.299
Okay, Alicia, I have three scenarios for you,
00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:07.799
and you have to tell me what a parent should
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:13.860
do. Okay. So, first scenario one. Okay, I'm ready.
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:18.360
Your child gets home from school every day and
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.220
immediately starts crying, arguing, just is really
00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:25.720
upset, difficult to reason with. And you've noticed
00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:30.269
their lunchbox is pretty much full. at the end
00:16:30.269 --> 00:16:34.710
of the day. Oh, someone is hangry. We know all
00:16:34.710 --> 00:16:37.149
about this. Oh, I know all about hangar at the
00:16:37.149 --> 00:16:41.409
end of the school day. So first, first thing
00:16:41.409 --> 00:16:45.909
first, feed them. Offer food. Offer food. And
00:16:45.909 --> 00:16:47.649
then find out what's happening at lunch. You
00:16:47.649 --> 00:16:50.049
can call the school. You can ask your child.
00:16:50.509 --> 00:16:52.090
Try and figure out what's happening at lunch.
00:16:52.190 --> 00:16:54.210
Are they getting enough time to eat? Can they
00:16:54.210 --> 00:16:56.629
open everything in their lunchbox? Is the cafeteria
00:16:56.629 --> 00:16:58.759
too overwhelming? Are they too distracted to
00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.440
eat because there's hopscotch? Don't assume that
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.519
hunger explains all the emotions, but also don't
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:06.839
ignore that hunger is a really big driver of
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.019
emotions. Truly, truly. I love that explanation.
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.809
Okay. Scenario two. You pick up your child from
00:17:14.809 --> 00:17:17.849
school. You know, every day they seem perfectly
00:17:17.849 --> 00:17:20.470
happy about pickup, but they start to get increasingly
00:17:20.470 --> 00:17:23.630
frustrated as you ask them about their day. Maybe
00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:25.450
you're reminding them about homework, telling
00:17:25.450 --> 00:17:27.470
them to change their clothes, that as the day
00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.849
goes on, They're just getting more and more irritated
00:17:30.849 --> 00:17:36.069
and frustrated. Mom. You know, you know. Just
00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:39.869
pause the interview. That's it? That's it. Give
00:17:39.869 --> 00:17:43.150
him space and save the non -urgent questions
00:17:43.150 --> 00:17:46.630
for later. Sometimes a little down quiet time
00:17:46.630 --> 00:17:48.829
can really let kids process how they're feeling
00:17:48.829 --> 00:17:50.490
and what they're thinking about their day and
00:17:50.490 --> 00:17:54.230
transition to the next part. Okay. Scenario three.
00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:57.619
Your child has started saying that they do not
00:17:57.619 --> 00:18:00.099
want to go to school. You've noticed that they're
00:18:00.099 --> 00:18:02.420
sleeping poorly. Every morning they're saying
00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:04.940
that they have a stomach ache. And eventually
00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:07.299
they tell you that they're afraid of another
00:18:07.299 --> 00:18:10.160
student. And so this scenario is a little bit
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.900
different and has me a little bit more concerned.
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:14.259
And we shouldn't just call this after school
00:18:14.259 --> 00:18:16.740
restraint collapse. You need to figure out what's
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:18.500
happening at school. You should talk with your
00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:20.880
child, contact the school, involve their pediatrician
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.759
if symptoms are persistent or interfering with
00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.289
daily life. And if there's a bullying or safety
00:18:25.289 --> 00:18:27.329
concern, the school really needs to address it.
00:18:27.890 --> 00:18:29.950
So the answer isn't always that a parent just
00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:32.809
needs a better snack or acquired a car ride.
00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:35.289
Sometimes there is something happening during
00:18:35.289 --> 00:18:37.829
the school day, and that's where parents need
00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:41.250
to intervene. So let's talk about when parents
00:18:41.250 --> 00:18:43.230
should be concerned. Because we don't want to
00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:46.069
pathologize every difficult afternoon, but we
00:18:46.069 --> 00:18:47.329
also don't want to miss something important.
00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:50.750
First, with anything that's happening with your
00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:53.970
child, look at how often it's happening. how
00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:56.750
intense it is, and whether things seem to be
00:18:56.750 --> 00:19:00.279
improving. A child who occasionally cries after
00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:02.859
a long day, then they eat dinner and happily
00:19:02.859 --> 00:19:06.140
play, they do their bedtime routine, that's different
00:19:06.140 --> 00:19:09.000
from a child whose distress is becoming more
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.640
frequent, more intense, or harder to recover
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.910
from. And it's important to look beyond the afternoon
00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:18.589
itself. Are they sleeping? Are they eating normally?
00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:20.710
Are they enjoying activities? Are they attending
00:19:20.710 --> 00:19:23.559
school? Are they having frequent physical complaints?
00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.579
Stomach ache is a big one. And if you notice
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:29.420
something that is persistent, worsening, and
00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:32.059
starting to interfere with everyday life, this
00:19:32.059 --> 00:19:34.599
is a good time to talk to your pediatrician.
00:19:35.099 --> 00:19:37.160
I also want to emphasize, we talk a lot about
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.220
headaches and stomach aches being a frequent
00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:41.619
manifestation of anxiety, but not all headaches
00:19:41.619 --> 00:19:44.000
and stomach aches are due to anxiety, and so
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.660
they shouldn't automatically be dismissed. Talk
00:19:46.660 --> 00:19:48.660
to your pediatrician. There are stomach bugs
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:51.400
that make people feel bad, and that might be
00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.200
happening. You can also talk to the teachers.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:58.279
Not in an accusatory way, but to compare notes.
00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:01.420
You could say to your teacher, hey, pick -up
00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:04.960
has been really hard most afternoons. Have you
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:06.839
noticed anything during the day that could be
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.000
contributing? And ask specific questions. Are
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:11.960
they eating lunch? Do they seem comfortable with
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.500
classmates? Are there certain transitions that
00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:16.480
are difficult for them? Are they able to ask
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.970
for help when they need it? Because, quote, they're
00:20:19.970 --> 00:20:23.150
good all day, doesn't tell us what we actually
00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:26.769
need to know. And then there are some more urgent
00:20:26.769 --> 00:20:30.849
situations. If in your family a child is repeatedly
00:20:30.849 --> 00:20:33.769
hurting themselves or others, if you feel that
00:20:33.769 --> 00:20:36.250
aggression is escalating and becoming unsafe,
00:20:36.750 --> 00:20:38.809
or if your child is talking about wanting to
00:20:38.809 --> 00:20:41.930
die or seriously hurt someone, that is the time
00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:44.970
to really seek out prompt professional evaluation.
00:20:45.809 --> 00:20:47.829
Whenever there's an immediate risk of serious
00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:51.500
harm, get emergency help. And you don't have
00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.500
to wait until things reach that point to ask
00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:57.140
for support. If your child is struggling, that's
00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:00.160
a perfectly good reason to reach out. The question
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.819
isn't always, is this normal? It's, what does
00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:05.779
my particular child need and is what we're doing
00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:09.109
helping? And pediatricians, they are there to
00:21:09.109 --> 00:21:11.690
partner with you on this journey of discovery.
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.059
Okay, so let's wrap up with three things that
00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:18.000
we want parents to remember. Let's go. First,
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:20.680
a child can have a good day at school and a difficult
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.109
afternoon at home. Those things aren't necessarily
00:21:24.109 --> 00:21:26.309
contradictory. When the teacher says that your
00:21:26.309 --> 00:21:28.210
child is an angel at school and then they come
00:21:28.210 --> 00:21:30.049
home and they're a little demon, doesn't mean
00:21:30.049 --> 00:21:32.470
the teacher's lying. There's all kinds of reasons.
00:21:32.970 --> 00:21:36.890
So second, look for patterns. Hunger, fatigue,
00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:40.049
transitions, friendships, learning demands, sensory
00:21:40.049 --> 00:21:43.109
stress, all of these can contribute to difficult
00:21:43.109 --> 00:21:46.569
afternoons, and sometimes a small change can
00:21:46.569 --> 00:21:49.589
bring a big difference. Maybe that means bringing
00:21:49.589 --> 00:21:52.650
a snack to pick up or waiting until dinner to
00:21:52.650 --> 00:21:56.279
ask about school. Or a little quiet time to write
00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:00.230
a pick -up or a chance to move around. And third,
00:22:00.329 --> 00:22:02.930
don't assume every difficult afternoon is just
00:22:02.930 --> 00:22:05.900
a phase. If your child is increasingly distressed,
00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:08.839
avoiding school, having frequent physical symptoms,
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:10.819
or struggling in ways that interfere with daily
00:22:10.819 --> 00:22:13.380
life, that's the time to talk to their teacher
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:16.059
and their pediatrician. And the other thing that
00:22:16.059 --> 00:22:18.920
I would emphasize is that, you know, as a parent,
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:20.960
you don't have to completely redesign your life
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.720
to make an afternoon easier. You can pick one
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.220
small thing to try, maybe a favorite snack at
00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:31.420
pickup, maybe a favorite song, first thing in
00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:35.630
the car, or some quiet time. See whether it helps.
00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:38.470
Maybe your child recovers more quickly or there's
00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:40.829
less conflict or you learn something new about
00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:43.690
what's making their day difficult. The goal isn't
00:22:43.690 --> 00:22:47.690
zero tears or a perfectly peaceful evening every
00:22:47.690 --> 00:22:50.650
single day. It is understanding your child and
00:22:50.650 --> 00:22:53.190
their needs a little bit better and then helping
00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:55.130
them develop the skills and support that they
00:22:55.130 --> 00:22:59.250
need. And you should also recognize that sometimes
00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:02.150
parents have had a long day too. How did you
00:23:02.150 --> 00:23:11.970
know? How did you know? So with that, thank you
00:23:11.970 --> 00:23:13.990
for joining us for this week's episode of the
00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:16.509
Rolin Forward podcast. I'm Dr. Alicia Rolin.
00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:18.809
I'm Dr. Stephanie Rolin. If you enjoyed this
00:23:18.809 --> 00:23:21.210
episode, share it with a friend or leave us a
00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:23.670
review. It really helps other listeners find
00:23:23.670 --> 00:23:26.210
the show. You can also find us on social media
00:23:26.210 --> 00:23:33.069
or email us at rolinforwardshow .com. We'd love
00:23:33.069 --> 00:23:35.170
to know what helps make your family make the
00:23:35.170 --> 00:23:37.779
transition home after school better. Thanks for
00:23:37.779 --> 00:23:39.559
listening and we will see you next week.