S2 | Rewind Design | E10 Coastal Protection with Amanda Kellett from Tatham Engineering

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Music.
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Hello and welcome to Rewind Design, a cottage country podcast.
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You have landed in season two of the podcast, which is very exciting because
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I have an amazing episode today.
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But if you're interested, season one was also a wonderful listen, I do have to say.
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Season one focused on interviewing Georgian Bay and Muskoka cottagers,
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specifically about their cottage properties.
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So we talked a lot about how their cottage property has changed over time,
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how they ended up purchasing their cottage, how long they've had it for,
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how their cottage design has morphed and changed and weaved through time.
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Some of these stories I'll have you know are pretty wild. There's some things
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going on in Georgian Bay that you might be shocked about.
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I don't want to give anything away because I'd love for you to go back and listen
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to some episodes, but I've been shocked in my interview processes.
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I'll just, I'll leave it there. So I'd go back and listen to season one if you're
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interested in the history of the area and listening to really beautiful stories
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of how much cottagers love, love, love Georgian Bane and Muskoka.
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So if this is your first episode you're listening to in season two, welcome.
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Thank you so much for listening.
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Season two is a really special season for me because it all started when I was
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working on season one and I was noticing while I was boating all around cottage
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country interviewing cottagers,
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I was really noticing the impact that cottaging and modern cottaging perhaps
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is having on our environment.
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Our beautiful ecological ecological environment here
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is so special especially the shorelines
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of georgian bay and i started to wonder if
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there was maybe some building practices that we
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were using in our modern world that maybe we could challenge and talk about
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and see if there's better ways to build in terms of environmental sustainability
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but as the season progressed we started talking more and more about sustainability
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with so many guests on the show.
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And it's become quite an interesting, debatable topic because sustainability
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can mean so many different things to so many different people.
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And there's so many different kinds of sustainability. So we're talking energy.
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Environmental sustainability, but also energy sustainability and economic sustainability
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and social sustainability.
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And all of these things are so important when we're talking about the overarching
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idea of sustainability.
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So season two is focusing on these topics.
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I'm trying to speak to as many people in the building industry as possible.
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So that includes architects, techs, other interior designers.
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Landscapers, engineers, all of the above.
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So it's been a super exciting experience and I've got lots of episodes piled
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up to share in the next few months.
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So please follow along and stay tuned.
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So in this week's episode, we have Amanda Kellett from Tatham Engineering,
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and I'm so excited to share this episode with you.
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This is our first episode with an engineer, let's say.
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And Amanda's role at Tatham Engineering is Climate Resilience and Sustainability Manager.
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So she really focuses on the coastal protection of the shorelines,
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which we will get into in the episode.
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We speak specifically about a project called Sunset Point Eco Shoreline,
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and that is in Collingwood.
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And this is, I want to say, an innovative technique in protecting the shoreline
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naturally, but it's actually, as Amanda says, not actually that innovative because
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it's so simple, but so effective.
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So if you listen along to this episode, we're going to talk through the process
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of naturalization and keeping this shoreline natural and protecting from erosion
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in a way that hasn't been done before along the coast of Georgian Bay.
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Otherwise, it's a very exciting interview with Amanda.
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I've loved chatting with her. It's a very insightful and educational interview.
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So let's get right into it. Thanks, Amanda.
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Music.
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Thank you so much, Amanda, for being on the show today. I'm really excited to
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have you. It's been a long time coming.
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So we're going to get started with just some general questions for you today.
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So I really wanted to get to know how you got into this industry.
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She works for Tatham Engineering and it is based in, I would say like Northern
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Central Ontario, like Barrie, Collingwood, Muskoka areas where you do most of
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the work. Is that correct? Yeah, that's right. Right. Okay.
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So I just want to get a little bit more information about where you're from,
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how long you've been maybe working in the engineering industry,
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maybe where you went to school, all of these things.
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Yeah, for sure. Well, thanks for having me. So I grew up in Oshawa,
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but I now live in Barrie and I've been in central Ontario for almost 20 years.
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I've been working in the engineering industry for a little over 20 years.
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And when When I started my career, I was in Toronto working for the city of Toronto.
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And then I moved a couple years later to, we found this perfect little cottage
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on the Green River in Washego.
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And it was a great first home to buy, affordable at the time,
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certainly by today's standards.
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And so that's what brought me kind of north of the city.
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And in terms of my educational background, my degree is in water resources engineering,
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and I studied at the University of Guelph.
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So that deals with surface water, things like managing stormwater and assessing floodplains.
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So, yeah, that's what I've largely been involved with. But after working for
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about 10 years in that field, and in large part because of the shoreline areas
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that we serve at Tatham, I became interested in coastal engineering.
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So I did some graduate courses in coastal engineering and worked with a professor
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at Queens University to help to develop that expertise.
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And just to give an idea of what coastal engineering involves,
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it's maybe not the most straightforward discipline, so not as common as some
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of the other engineering disciplines.
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So it involves assessing waves and other shoreline processes to figure out things
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like where development might be appropriate or where it might be at risk of
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damage from shoreline hazards like flooding, erosion, and ice.
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And then also, in some cases, designing protection measures so that development
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can be safe from those hazards.
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So that's a really good explanation, because I think most people might not understand
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if you say, oh, I'm a coastal engineer.
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What does that entail? So I think that was a really great summary.
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And so, like, let's say you're building a dock or a boathouse or something right on that shoreline.
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What are the main things that you consider when you're initially doing that
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from your perspective? Yeah.
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So we are concerned about, you know, where that structure might be at risk from
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flooding, erosion, and ice.
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And those are all things that just naturally occur along the water.
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And if you don't have any, you know, human activity, it's fine.
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Like that's, they're going to function that way.
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It's just when we get involved and we start to interact with the shoreline,
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that's where the challenges arise.
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So, yeah, so we do assessments to look at, okay, if it's a permanent dock,
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how do we make sure that it's not going to be damaged?
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What kind of protection measures might you need for a boathouse?
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Yeah, seeing kind of sets of considerations, like where should it be situated
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so it's, you know, at least risk or best protected from shoreline hazards?
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You know, how high would you want it to be set so that it's not going to be
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flooded, going to see, you know, hopefully less ice damage, and then...
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Our information, we also feeds into the structural engineering and the other
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elements of the design. Gotcha.
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And is this something that you would say you would work with if it's a new building
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that you would work with the architect on this when they're,
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you know, before they're submitting for permit or how would that process work? Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. So if it's a a new build yeah
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we typically get we might get a set of proposed plans
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from an architect or you know if it's
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a site development get a proposed site plan from a planner
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but when we get hired and we're
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brought in to satisfy you know the municipality or
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conservation authority or whoever it is that's asking for
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this study we provide that advice on
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okay where should you locate your house or you
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know what do you need to do to protect
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this boathouse so yeah and it's
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harder when sometimes we get involved later on in
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the process and it becomes more you know it's more difficult and costly to
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have to redesign rather than considering it
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from the start yeah and then so like let's say
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someone designs a boathouse which i
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guess isn't typical everywhere boathouses i feel like are
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such a muskoka specific thing but let's
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just say a dock for example if someone's designing a dock that
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maybe you think is really not
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a good idea and maybe it's located right in an area that has terrible waves
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and you're really worried about it what are kind of some things that you would
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suggest changing is it is it would you ever just say maybe don't put it there
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like would you suggest a different location or is there any other like.
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Again, I'm not very familiar necessarily with specific dock engineering,
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so I don't even know what else you would suggest, like whether it's fixed or
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floating or maybe you can run me through that. Sure.
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Yeah. I think when you look at the hierarchy of how it's best to deal with natural
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hazards, the best thing to do is avoid it entirely.
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And so that's always the first advice is if you can avoid it, avoid it.
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Because if you are trying to protect against that, that's always higher risk and higher cost.
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So sometimes you can avoid it, but that's the first line of defense.
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Fence and then after that when you're looking at design mitigations
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yeah it's certainly like if you can install
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a cantilever structure something that you can
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take out seasonally if it's because yeah you don't have to deal with ice breakup
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tends to be the worst of conditions for dogs and for boathouses so that like
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much more so than than weave action is what does damage to those structures on the whole.
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So yeah, so there's the structure type, there's the materials.
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You can also in more extreme cases, install things that are offshore of the
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structure, like a breakwater that helps to break up ice before it reaches the dock.
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I know bubblers are popular in some locations to try to prevent ice formation as well.
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So there are a lot of approaches, but again, yeah, as much as you can avoid
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that hazard, it's better in all cases.
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It's so funny because I'm from the Georgian Bay side of things.
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I didn't spend that much time in Muskoka before I was really working in the design industry.
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And, you know, where I'm from in Parry Sound, most people can't access their
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cottages in the winter because they're all on islands.
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So all of our docks, you know, know, they're all floating.
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We pull the ramps up, you know, most of them are cantilevered.
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And then we have like a floating dock that we like let float out.
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And that's just pretty typical from where I'm from. But then when I started
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working in Muskoka, I remember I went to this site in the.
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I had no idea what a bubbler was because I'd never seen one because we just
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don't have boathouses where we are.
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And it was just such a foreign concept to me and shocked me.
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But then it makes total sense because the way that the structure is,
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I can see how it could be very damaged by ice formations because it has no give, it has no movement.
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So I can totally understand why that maybe isn't the best option all the time.
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Mm-hmm yeah but it's
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crazy and i was gonna ask you so
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you're you're based in barry but where would you say most of your projects are
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like for your for coastal development yeah so we uh like as a company we serve
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as yeah central ontario sort of like you described that's That's our core area.
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And so in terms of the shoreline areas, that covers Lake Simcoe,
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Georgian Bay, some parts of Lake Huron, and the Muskoka Lakes are kind of our core areas.
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And we sometimes venture a little further afield from that.
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But yeah, I'd say that that covers the vast majority of our projects.
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And then just outside of this one specific department, can you just briefly
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describe describe what the other departments are just as an overarching idea of Tatham?
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Sure. Yeah. So Tatham Engineering, we're a civil engineering consulting firm,
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and we've been around for 34 years and have five offices across central Ontario.
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So our clients range from, say,
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private private homeowners to larger scale
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land developers and we also work on the
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public side for small and large
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municipalities so that kind of covers our you know their client base and where
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we're located and in terms of the services that we offer we have yeah water
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resources engineering which is part of the work that I do in coastal engineering,
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land development, municipal engineering.
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Structural, water and wastewater, transportation, mechanical and electrical
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and hydrogeology as well.
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Yeah, that's like, so many parts of engineering.
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Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And that's sort of like, those are kind of the core
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disciplines that you need when you're doing, you know, a land development project
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or a municipal infrastructure project.
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So we have a lot of projects involve all of those departments and some are,
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you know, some can be a smaller number of that, but yeah, there's a lot of collaboration
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between those groups. Okay. So that's awesome.
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So like how many people do you think work for the company in total?
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I'm just trying to wrap my head around the scale of the company.
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Yeah, like we'd be considered a medium sized consulting firm in Canada.
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And so we have about 175 staff currently across our five offices.
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Yeah. So and that includes engineers, geoscientists, technologists,
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technicians, and then we have a range of support staff that help us do the work we do.
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Nice no that's awesome yeah i mean every
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project needs engineering in some capacities i feel
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like it's a very needed industry and really really important because again you
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know designers and architects can say all they want about wanting to build something
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but at the end of the day sometimes it just doesn't work yeah yeah sure it's
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yeah i feel like unfortunately Fortunately,
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we often have to be the bearers of bad news in terms of what's feasible and what isn't.
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But, you know, it's a necessary part of doing a project and better to find that
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out during design than during construction.
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So it's for sure. Yes, that's part of the process.
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I feel like I try to get everybody involved from the beginning just to discuss
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any issues that could potentially occur like right from the beginning.
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And I think that's just like you said so important
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if you're if you're going to suggest at the end of the day no
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you shouldn't put this structure where you're
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designing it it's like oh well now we've just wasted all of our design hours
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designing this for this specific location it's not going to work yeah yeah and
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and it can be heartbreaking for clients too if they you know yeah they've gone
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down this path and they have their heart set on a given outcome and and they've
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seen all And all the renderings,
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you know, and all the floor plans and everything, like all the pretty things.
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And then, you know, if it's not going to work, that's terrible.
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For sure. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you just a bit about sustainability,
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because this is kind of the whole reason I'm doing the season two of this podcast
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is I'm talking to so many people in
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the design build industry about their perspectives on sustainable design.
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And everyone has a little bit of a different perspective coming from different fields.
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And also, it's such a broad term that it's really hard to define,
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like, what does it even mean?
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But I just wanted to get your perspective on what Tatham is doing to be more
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sustainable, maybe like specifically in their coastal design.
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And to me, that means like, how are you considering the environment when you're
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designing and, you know, the types of materials that you're using? Yeah.
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Yeah, I think, you know, like you say, sustainability, it's a broad term and
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means different things and, you know, for different projects and different contexts.
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But in terms of shoreline projects specifically, to me, it means what we have
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talked about, prioritizing, avoiding disturbance where it's possible.
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And then when it's not possible to avoid that, aiming to use natural materials
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and approaches, again, wherever possible.
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So there are high risk settings where, you know, you need a hardened shoreline
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to provide the right protection, usually where you already have development of some kind.
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But I think even when, yeah, when you can't go the whole way to incorporating
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a more nature-based solution is the terminology that we would use,
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you can still incorporate elements of hardened solutions.
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So, that's kind of the high level.
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Could you maybe give an example of what you mean by that?
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Yeah. So, when we talk about traditional shoreline protection,
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it tends to be things like concrete walls,
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sheet pile walls, and then stone structures, stone revetments.
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Those are sort of the more typical
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approaches and they do you know they work
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well to stop you know shoreline erosion and to you know provide negative side
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effects for you know the natural shoreline processes whereas like the things
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we would call nature-based solutions are more are are more based in,
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you know, vegetation,
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natural materials, like bioengineering is another word for it,
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where you use woody debris and other features like that rather than the hardened
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stone, concrete, steel.
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So those are like the two kind of general categories of options when it comes
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to shoreline protection.
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And then nature-based solutions are certainly still...
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Gaining acceptance as an alternative. Because I think this is something that people.
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I mean, you see it all the time, retaining walls,
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holding any sort of, like you said, erosion, but it is such a harsh feature
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on such an important part of the ecosystem,
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which I find it's actually just so funny because I was just interviewing the
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Georgian Bay Biosphere talking about kind of best practices when building from their perspective.
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Obviously, again, everyone's coming at it from a different viewpoint.
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So, you know, I appreciate everyone's viewpoint, but they're saying that the
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shoreline specifically is kind of the most important part of the ecosystem because
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animals at every single point in at least, sorry, let me rephrase that.
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An animal in one point of of
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its life will have to be on the shoreline so again if
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it's a frog you know they're
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laying their eggs on the shoreline and same with fish spawning
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and other animals are using this this part of the environment a lot more like
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the connection between the land and the water turtle eggs these types of things
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so i think from their perspective it's they would prefer to see nothing being
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put there and like natural erosion.
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So I'm wondering, you know, how, is there a middle ground for this that allows
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for, you know, the, the owner of the property for them to, to not see as much
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erosion with these natural, uh.
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What are they called? You said like natural. Yeah. Nature-based solutions.
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Nature-based solutions. Yeah. The terminology. The property. Yeah.
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You know, versus doing this really harsh concrete or stone-based solution,
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because again, that works really well for its purpose, but environmentally it
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might just not be the best option for like the ecosystem.
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I know this is a tough topic, but.
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Yeah, no, not at all. And it's actually, it's something that I've I've been
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thinking about a lot in recent years, in part, I think, sort of seeing the aggregate
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effect of like all the work that you do, like when you see it over time,
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all of the shoreline protection and, you know, it has been necessary.
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In part, we had really high water levels on the Great Lakes and Georgian Bay,
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Lake Huron in particular.
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And fluctuating levels a lot. Yes. Yeah.
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So can be challenging conditions. And so, yeah, we did see a lot of shoreline
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properties that had flooding, that had erosion,
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in many cases, structures that were really at risk of, you know,
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serious damage if there wasn't something done to protect the shoreline.
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So, you know, there has been a need for it.
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However, if you look at, you know, a stretch of shoreline and you see this,
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you know, incremental hardening and, you know, denaturalization,
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it does, you know, I think when you step back and look at it holistically,
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you do start to worry about the impacts of that. And so, yeah, absolutely.
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Something I've been thinking about a lot and trying then to incorporate these
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nature-based solutions where we can.
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And there is, there's a category of these practices that are,
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they call it like a gray-green sort of blend where you take like the gray infrastructure
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being the hardened traditional and the green infrastructure being the softer nature-based.
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So for example if you
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had a stone structure we would call
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it a revetment sort of lays against the shoreline and is meant to
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protect against erosion so that could that's something that could be vegetated
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and it's not something i do have a pilot project coming that will install that
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yeah so with it's with the nottawasaga island lighthouse protection committee
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okay and so they They are,
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it's an island with a lighthouse that's not too far off the Collingwood shoreline.
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And the committee wants to do restoration work on the lighthouse.
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And so they'll need improved boat access to be able to do that construction.
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And so as part of that and part of the permitting for that, we designed a structure
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and then incorporated a, we're calling it a vegetative revetment.
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So it's a stone structure. But with the addition of some specific,
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you know, shoreline appropriate vegetation so that it can then,
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you know, have sort of habitat enhancements, provide shade and,
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you know, be much better for fish and other aquatic animals than standard stone structure.
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So I'm excited to see that in practice.
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And I do think it's something that can be applied a lot more broadly.
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And like stone revetments are extremely common along a lot of the shorelines that we work on.
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So it's something that can be done after the fact of, you know,
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if you have an existing structure, you can also, you know, it's possible to go in and add plantings.
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And, you know, in that way, you take what is kind of a less than natural hardened
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shoreline and you can naturalize it.
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Mm-hmm. And can you just explain for anyone listening what a revetment is?
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Yeah. So it's really just a layer of stone that's sort of placed against the
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existing shoreline slope.
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So it's flatter than, you know, if you picture like a stacked armor stone wall,
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it's sort of like that, but flattened out and with rounded, usually rounded
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granite or limestone stone boulders.
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So it protects, like it causes waves to break up and it dissipates the energy.
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So it protects against erosion in that way. But it is still,
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it's not, you know, it's not a natural shoreline.
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Yeah. And I think, I mean, most people will understand what that is,
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because I think that is quite a common way to do it around here.
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I don't know if it has to do with cost or anything because maybe it's
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a better option i'm not sure yeah i
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mean i think environmentally it is it's a
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little nicer than a vertical wall because
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it does it breaks up like it breaks up the wave energy in place rather than
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like the other downside of hardened shore walls is that that they tend to just
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send the wave energy and also just down to the neighboring property.
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And they do have negative effects for neighbors. And depending on where,
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you know, like if you're in a cove or you're on a point, I guess it's so different, right?
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Like if you're in a cove or something on one side of it and the wave bounces
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off your wall, it could just like be redirected right to your neighbor.
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Yes. So you do have to be cautious about that when you're designing those structures. But yeah, the...
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Revetments are are considered better in
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that regard in terms of yeah not having off-site impacts
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right in the same way that walls do yeah i
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mean you can even tell just like the grade of the slope is
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much less yeah yeah so yeah
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yeah and kind of when you if you ever watch waves breaking against those two
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types of structures is a very clear difference in how they operate so So you
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can see like the wave energy just kind of gets eaten up by the revetment structure
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because it has voids and the waves go in and dissipate and come back out.
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But yeah, the wall you see, you can see an actual like reflection of waves being redirected.
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And I find it specifically, oh my gosh, I can't speak today.
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Specifically in cottage country when we're surrounded by so much nature,
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it is pretty jarring sometimes to see that vertical wall coming from the water.
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Because we're so used to just having that really gentle grade typically into
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the water, unless you're on some sort of rock face or something where it's like
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naturally on your property.
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Yes, yeah. And in those cases, usually people don't need shoreline protection.
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If you have the bedrock, it's nature's shoreline protection.
393
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So that's fortunate. But yeah, you're right. There's the aesthetic part of it too.
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And I think the nature-based solutions really do a lot to address that.
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And I was like, are people receptive to these ideas?
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Like your typical cottage client, are they happy to have this big retaining
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wall or even the revetment option?
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Is it talked about? Or is it just kind of like, oh, we're worried about erosion,
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we need to solve this problem?
400
00:29:14,788 --> 00:29:22,128
Yeah, I think there can be a bit of a tendency to go towards the harder solutions,
401
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I think, because they're better understood.
402
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And they might be worried about their property. Yeah.
403
00:29:28,048 --> 00:29:33,568
Yeah, which is entirely fair. I think it goes both ways, too,
404
00:29:33,748 --> 00:29:37,148
though, because I think a lot of engineering practitioners, we,
405
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you know, we are a fairly cautious group by nature.
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And that's, you know, what the job requires.
407
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But I think because there are clear, clearer design standards that relate to
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those, you know, to walls and hardened structures, right, it's,
409
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it's easier to have certainty with those.
410
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Whereas if you're trying a newer product, it can be a bit of a leap of faith.
411
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So I think on both sides, there's work to do.
412
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But doing some pilot projects, I found that to be a good way to test things
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out in a low-risk setting.
414
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And then ideally, you expand on that into other settings. And you can be,
415
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you know, it's good for the industry then to see that these things can work
416
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in, you know, pretty harsh Great Lakes settings.
417
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And then, you know, they can be adopted more broadly.
418
00:30:32,408 --> 00:30:39,728
And most of the context behind this season of the podcast as well is basically
419
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I'm saying, you know, we live in an area where development is inevitable,
420
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like development is going to continue happening, like it's never going to stop,
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especially, you know, Muskoka is already so developed and it's just going to
422
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keep spreading to other areas further north and further east.
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So I think what I'm excited to talk about is just like you're saying,
424
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looking at different options on how to move forward with all of these things
425
00:31:06,268 --> 00:31:09,848
that maybe I, how do I phrase this?
426
00:31:09,948 --> 00:31:13,508
Like the break wall or not the break walls, these retaining walls.
427
00:31:14,284 --> 00:31:20,024
You know, are great for what they do. And for the purpose of erosion and breaking
428
00:31:20,024 --> 00:31:24,284
up waves, they're like 100% perfect, you know, like they're great.
429
00:31:24,644 --> 00:31:29,424
But I know so many people moving forward are starting to think more about,
430
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like, I guess, impacts on the environment.
431
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And so I don't think any solution will ever be perfect in any regard.
432
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So I think at least if we're working to be better, then I think that is something
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that everybody can do and is something that I really believe in.
434
00:31:47,864 --> 00:31:53,624
Yeah, I think seeing examples of that change is really important and helpful.
435
00:31:53,844 --> 00:31:58,344
So if, you know, if you see that there's a shoreline neighbor who has,
436
00:31:58,404 --> 00:32:02,844
you know, a naturalized shoreline has, you know, done some, some work to,
437
00:32:02,864 --> 00:32:06,484
you know, to enhance the shoreline with plantings, or,
438
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you know, tried one of these more natural approaches, I think those are,
439
00:32:11,664 --> 00:32:16,724
that's really helpful to give people, yeah, that sort of level of comfort.
440
00:32:16,724 --> 00:32:21,944
Effort that it can be done in a way that's safe and, you know,
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appropriate for their shoreline.
442
00:32:23,764 --> 00:32:30,924
So I do think, yeah, I am finding that, you know, I'm certainly trying to suggest
443
00:32:30,924 --> 00:32:36,024
these options to clients, but I'm also finding some clients coming to me with their own ideas.
444
00:32:36,264 --> 00:32:39,824
So on Lake Huron, for example we
445
00:32:39,824 --> 00:32:43,464
had a client who was redeveloping a cottage
446
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property and yeah they were choosing
447
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to move back from the shoreline
448
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and taking what was a vertical timber
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shore wall which is quite common on parts of the lake huron shoreline they were
450
00:32:58,044 --> 00:33:04,144
in like a dynamic beach sort of bluff area And instead having kind of a stepped
451
00:33:04,144 --> 00:33:11,904
wall that incorporated some like native grasses and other plantings.
452
00:33:11,904 --> 00:33:16,144
And so, yeah, things like that are encouraging in terms of growth.
453
00:33:16,435 --> 00:33:19,675
People recognizing the importance of these features
454
00:33:19,675 --> 00:33:22,775
like that you know they're they're naturally protective
455
00:33:22,775 --> 00:33:26,335
they're important ecologically and and
456
00:33:26,335 --> 00:33:32,635
then designing you know and planning accordingly and do you have a team as part
457
00:33:32,635 --> 00:33:39,035
of your company that works to do plantings and are experts on like actual i
458
00:33:39,035 --> 00:33:44,855
guess native plant species or do you outsource that and work with another company?
459
00:33:45,575 --> 00:33:52,555
No, we do have an in-house landscape architecture firm that's a partner firm, Envision Tatham. Yeah.
460
00:33:52,675 --> 00:33:57,055
So they're a great resource and we've been working together to develop some
461
00:33:57,055 --> 00:33:58,235
specifications because it
462
00:33:58,235 --> 00:34:03,715
is a bit like shoreline planting, especially on say, Georgian Bay, Huron.
463
00:34:03,875 --> 00:34:07,875
Those are quite harsh environments to try to establish planting.
464
00:34:07,875 --> 00:34:10,915
Things so yes yeah so it's it's not you
465
00:34:10,915 --> 00:34:14,615
know it's not like you can just approach a garden or backyard project
466
00:34:14,615 --> 00:34:17,535
so it's yeah we're working on
467
00:34:17,535 --> 00:34:20,475
how best to get those those plants
468
00:34:20,475 --> 00:34:25,035
established because once they do get a root system it's it's amazing what they
469
00:34:25,035 --> 00:34:30,255
can withstand and that's something that i know it's it's amazing yeah through
470
00:34:30,255 --> 00:34:36,135
all the work and all of my work in the the field during that 2019-2020 period
471
00:34:36,135 --> 00:34:40,395
of very high water levels on Georgia Bay and Lake Huron.
472
00:34:40,615 --> 00:34:46,135
It was really amazing. I would go out to sites and see, you know,
473
00:34:46,155 --> 00:34:48,735
widespread erosion with the exception.
474
00:34:48,875 --> 00:34:52,235
And this would be where, you know, there were hardened structures,
475
00:34:52,395 --> 00:34:57,315
there were revetments and walls and those were damaged and failed in some cases.
476
00:34:57,495 --> 00:35:03,915
And then, you know, There's this scraggly cedar tree that's just clinging to life on the shoreline.
477
00:35:04,135 --> 00:35:09,195
And so it really did teach me a lesson about...
478
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:16,940
You know, just the potential for shoreline vegetation as a shoreline protection approach.
479
00:35:17,540 --> 00:35:22,520
You know, yeah, they fared better than a lot of the engineered structures in
480
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,080
some cases. It's so interesting.
481
00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:30,600
And I know most people really question, like, leaving their shoreline completely
482
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,600
natural because it doesn't look very tidy.
483
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,480
It looks really wild and rugged.
484
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,120
And there's so many different species right on
485
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:46,940
that shoreline that it can be it can be a little bit like untamed and i think
486
00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:52,660
a lot of people really like to have a more clean look with their landscaping
487
00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:57,720
you know i get like basically clearing it clearing it all and having a beach
488
00:35:57,720 --> 00:35:59,100
or like the barren rock rock.
489
00:35:59,180 --> 00:36:07,020
And I try to at least try to persuade people to maybe not clear everything.
490
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,520
Just because like you said, the root systems are so integrated into that shoreline.
491
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:15,940
They have so many natural filtering qualities.
492
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:20,900
And again, I'm not an expert. This is just some things I've learned from the
493
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,040
biosphere and stuff. But.
494
00:36:23,238 --> 00:36:26,238
It's it's tough sometimes to persuade people to
495
00:36:26,238 --> 00:36:29,158
not touch it even my own family cottage my dad
496
00:36:29,158 --> 00:36:31,938
likes to mow the lawn even though we don't even really
497
00:36:31,938 --> 00:36:35,498
have a lawn it's just kind of wild grass and he won't
498
00:36:35,498 --> 00:36:39,978
give it up because he likes it to be tidy looking for when guests come over
499
00:36:39,978 --> 00:36:45,138
and i think just that whole mentality is is funny because you're going to this
500
00:36:45,138 --> 00:36:50,818
wild area where you know you're wanting to be in nature and then here we are
501
00:36:50,818 --> 00:36:52,318
like trimming everything,
502
00:36:53,038 --> 00:36:55,638
yeah so it's just kind of funny but it's a
503
00:36:55,638 --> 00:36:59,538
habit for sure yeah no i completely understand
504
00:36:59,538 --> 00:37:06,738
and i think yeah some of it is education in terms of yeah making people aware
505
00:37:06,738 --> 00:37:13,598
of the many benefits of a natural shoreline and yeah i think over time people
506
00:37:13,598 --> 00:37:18,998
can become accustomed to that like Like the cosmetic pesticide ban is one example where,
507
00:37:19,078 --> 00:37:24,238
you know, for so long, people would use pesticides on their dandelions.
508
00:37:24,398 --> 00:37:28,178
And then, you know, one day it just wasn't possible to buy them anymore.
509
00:37:28,258 --> 00:37:29,478
And people have adjusted.
510
00:37:29,678 --> 00:37:33,058
They just, you know, you see dandelions and we all survive.
511
00:37:33,278 --> 00:37:39,058
And so I think, yeah, when sometimes people are required to,
512
00:37:39,078 --> 00:37:43,738
you know, change by legislation and sometimes it's certainly we can adjust.
513
00:37:43,738 --> 00:37:46,078
Is kind of the lesson that I take from that.
514
00:37:47,298 --> 00:37:51,778
And then I wanted to talk just a little bit about maybe like materials that
515
00:37:51,778 --> 00:37:56,458
you would recommend for, let's say, like doc structures and the things.
516
00:37:56,578 --> 00:38:03,058
Because I know, again, so much of my information comes from the Biosphere, which is one resource.
517
00:38:03,278 --> 00:38:08,158
So feel free to speak your opinion because mine is just one side.
518
00:38:08,158 --> 00:38:14,638
But, you know, they suggest there's so many things like having the dock planks
519
00:38:14,638 --> 00:38:18,818
like slightly more open and spaced apart so that more light will filter through
520
00:38:18,818 --> 00:38:20,998
to the fish that live below the dock.
521
00:38:21,178 --> 00:38:26,918
And using like FSC certified wood is always just a good option regardless.
522
00:38:27,238 --> 00:38:31,738
But is there anything that you would say like sustainability wise that you consider
523
00:38:31,738 --> 00:38:35,718
when you're when you're choosing materials for projects? Yeah.
524
00:38:36,502 --> 00:38:42,082
Yeah, I think like certainly those are all good points about both material choice
525
00:38:42,082 --> 00:38:48,362
and like material placement to consider fish habitat and yeah,
526
00:38:48,422 --> 00:38:50,302
just sort of aquatic use.
527
00:38:50,582 --> 00:38:55,042
I think those are important. And then, you know, similar to what we spoke about,
528
00:38:55,102 --> 00:39:04,062
but just avoiding, you know, concrete and the other less natural materials where you can.
529
00:39:04,062 --> 00:39:10,782
Man so yeah i think it's it's it's a bit of of all of those elements of the
530
00:39:10,782 --> 00:39:17,442
conversation though trying to make the best material choices the best yeah and
531
00:39:17,442 --> 00:39:19,842
that like in addition to the material.
532
00:39:20,542 --> 00:39:25,422
There's the operation of it and and yeah trying to expose it to as little risk
533
00:39:25,422 --> 00:39:31,462
as we can so because that that then means that you're more likely to have damage
534
00:39:31,462 --> 00:39:33,222
and have to repair and Yes.
535
00:39:33,622 --> 00:39:39,722
And that's something, yeah, that's like a huge thing from my understanding of
536
00:39:39,722 --> 00:39:41,302
what I believe sustainability is too.
537
00:39:41,402 --> 00:39:45,662
It's like using quality materials right from the beginning, reducing hazard
538
00:39:45,662 --> 00:39:53,722
and, you know, building it properly the first time so that it will last as long as it possibly can.
539
00:39:53,822 --> 00:39:57,162
And then you're not having to replace or fix or rebuild or anything. thing.
540
00:39:57,542 --> 00:40:01,362
So that's, I think, from an architecture and interior design perspective,
541
00:40:01,522 --> 00:40:05,882
that's really important to just be using the best quality materials and really
542
00:40:05,882 --> 00:40:06,982
good building techniques.
543
00:40:07,782 --> 00:40:12,782
Over time, it's like your life cycle cost will just be so much better than if
544
00:40:12,782 --> 00:40:15,902
you were to build it cheaply.
545
00:40:15,922 --> 00:40:20,882
I don't want to say cheaply, but just like not well, if that makes sense. Yeah.
546
00:40:21,502 --> 00:40:25,082
Yeah, definitely. And then one other thing I wanted to touch upon,
547
00:40:25,382 --> 00:40:29,102
I don't know, did you work on the Sunset Point eco shoreline?
548
00:40:29,422 --> 00:40:30,782
Yeah, that was my project.
549
00:40:31,142 --> 00:40:34,502
Okay. Okay. So we can talk a little bit about that one because that's another
550
00:40:34,502 --> 00:40:40,182
nature-based shoreline project that's on your website that I was really intrigued by.
551
00:40:40,482 --> 00:40:43,142
So I wonder if you can maybe just talk a little bit about that one.
552
00:40:43,893 --> 00:40:48,413
Definitely. Yeah, that was my first nature-based shoreline project.
553
00:40:48,493 --> 00:40:52,913
And I was fortunate to have a willing partner in the town of Collingwood.
554
00:40:53,073 --> 00:41:01,493
They had experienced some pretty serious erosion during that high water period, 2019-2020,
555
00:41:01,773 --> 00:41:07,133
and required some emergency shoreline repairs to some of their existing shoreline
556
00:41:07,133 --> 00:41:09,253
structures. So we helped them with that.
557
00:41:09,393 --> 00:41:14,733
And as part of that process, we received comments from the local First Nation,
558
00:41:14,973 --> 00:41:23,873
Sagin Ojibwe Nation, and they recommended in future looking to softer shoreline protection options.
559
00:41:23,933 --> 00:41:28,773
So it's something that stayed with me and I wanted to look for opportunities to do that.
560
00:41:28,773 --> 00:41:35,613
So I brought the idea to the town and we collaborated with the Collingwood Environment
561
00:41:35,613 --> 00:41:41,273
Network, which is a local not-for-profit area that was suitable to try a large
562
00:41:41,273 --> 00:41:42,813
woody debris installation.
563
00:41:42,813 --> 00:41:50,333
So, large woody debris occurs in nature and generally just defined as sort of
564
00:41:50,333 --> 00:41:53,033
logs or driftwood of a certain size.
565
00:41:53,353 --> 00:41:59,773
And they do accumulate in natural coastal environments and serve as a natural
566
00:41:59,773 --> 00:42:04,513
coastal protection without, you know, they're not intentionally placed or anchored or anything.
567
00:42:04,613 --> 00:42:10,553
They just find their way to settle on, you know, cobble beaches and different
568
00:42:10,553 --> 00:42:12,833
areas. So this is something that
569
00:42:12,833 --> 00:42:17,433
happens in nature and so the material as intentional shoreline protection.
570
00:42:18,373 --> 00:42:25,713
So we found a site at Sunset Point Park, which is a large shoreline park in
571
00:42:25,713 --> 00:42:26,993
the town of Collingwood that's...
572
00:42:27,734 --> 00:42:34,874
You know, very well used and high, high impact, high priority area for the town. Completed a design.
573
00:42:35,534 --> 00:42:43,234
And so it included taking cedar logs that had been, they were actually cedar
574
00:42:43,234 --> 00:42:47,034
trees that had to be removed to construct a washroom building in the park.
575
00:42:47,414 --> 00:42:50,854
Oh, cool. Yeah, the timing was perfect. We just happened,
576
00:42:50,874 --> 00:42:54,214
they happened to be removing these trees and we we happen to need like cedar
577
00:42:54,214 --> 00:42:59,294
is a good wood to use because it's rot resistant so it's good in that kind of
578
00:42:59,294 --> 00:43:03,674
aquatic environment where it's you know periodically wet periodically dry,
579
00:43:04,214 --> 00:43:10,274
so we made use of those the contractor drove them about 100 meters down the shoreline oh my god.
580
00:43:11,354 --> 00:43:14,214
Yeah which is great and then yeah and then
581
00:43:14,214 --> 00:43:17,154
we tried this anchoring approach where it's something
582
00:43:17,154 --> 00:43:20,374
called duckbill anchors but i'd seen it used for
583
00:43:20,374 --> 00:43:23,214
other shoreline restoration works that we
584
00:43:23,214 --> 00:43:27,174
had done where you use like old trees like coniferous
585
00:43:27,174 --> 00:43:32,354
trees and then anchor them into a river bank to shoreline protection and habitat
586
00:43:32,354 --> 00:43:38,334
so so that was the approach and yeah so the contractor did the installation
587
00:43:38,334 --> 00:43:44,434
work and the anchor just during you know you're subject to wave action and you
588
00:43:44,434 --> 00:43:46,414
know ice any other shoreline processes.
589
00:43:46,674 --> 00:43:49,374
And what year was this that this was completed?
590
00:43:49,914 --> 00:43:53,954
This was completed in 20... Okay. I'm pretty sure.
591
00:43:54,574 --> 00:43:58,694
And yeah, so it's about 100 meters of shoreline where this was installed and
592
00:43:58,694 --> 00:44:00,334
it's performing very well.
593
00:44:00,774 --> 00:44:04,474
It was, you know, we intentionally chose a low risk area.
594
00:44:04,634 --> 00:44:07,694
There's not any, you know, critical infrastructure that it's protecting.
595
00:44:07,694 --> 00:44:10,834
It's just you know it's a pedestrian trail in
596
00:44:10,834 --> 00:44:13,794
the park so that was you
597
00:44:13,794 --> 00:44:16,754
know the the choice to for everyone to be comfortable
598
00:44:16,754 --> 00:44:19,474
that if you know even if it did fail it wouldn't be
599
00:44:19,474 --> 00:44:23,714
catastrophic and and you know to me that's the right setting for a pilot project
600
00:44:23,714 --> 00:44:28,154
where yeah you can let things try things out and see what happens and yeah this
601
00:44:28,154 --> 00:44:32,374
has been really successful it's it's been something the town has gotten a fair
602
00:44:32,374 --> 00:44:36,374
bit of attention for as well like we we were successful in getting getting funding
603
00:44:36,374 --> 00:44:38,514
from the Ministry of Environment,
604
00:44:38,694 --> 00:44:40,654
Conservation and Parks for the project.
605
00:44:41,194 --> 00:44:46,334
And yeah, so it's been a great starting point. And so now I've been talking
606
00:44:46,334 --> 00:44:50,034
to the town about other pilot projects, and we're just currently looking for
607
00:44:50,034 --> 00:44:54,954
funding so that we can move on to the next phase and implement some other options.
608
00:44:55,514 --> 00:45:00,014
That's awesome. Yeah, I think what a perfect place to try doing this,
609
00:45:00,214 --> 00:45:05,514
especially working with the First Nations community as well with their perspective too.
610
00:45:06,867 --> 00:45:11,747
That's just, that's amazing. And like you said, it's performing pretty well,
611
00:45:11,867 --> 00:45:15,367
considering it's been, I guess, two years since it's been completed.
612
00:45:15,467 --> 00:45:17,047
Yeah. So yeah, that's awesome.
613
00:45:17,227 --> 00:45:22,247
That was quite exciting. Yeah. I was quite fortunate that it came together so nicely.
614
00:45:22,427 --> 00:45:26,187
And the trees were so willing. Yes. Yeah.
615
00:45:26,347 --> 00:45:30,927
And yeah, just all the stars aligned and it ended up being a great project.
616
00:45:30,927 --> 00:45:34,367
The other, like on a related note,
617
00:45:34,507 --> 00:45:39,787
one of my other favorite projects of recent years was actually helping the Sagin
618
00:45:39,787 --> 00:45:45,807
Ojibwe Nation to complete a review of their shoreline and their territorial,
619
00:45:46,187 --> 00:45:47,367
like traditional territory.
620
00:45:47,847 --> 00:45:52,967
They had concerns about the cumulative effects of shoreline hardening and their
621
00:45:52,967 --> 00:45:57,287
traditional fisheries and aquatic environment.
622
00:45:57,287 --> 00:46:02,087
And so I had the opportunity to have what options there might be to,
623
00:46:02,087 --> 00:46:03,827
you know, to encourage the use
624
00:46:03,827 --> 00:46:08,667
of nature-based solutions as opposed to traditional shoreline hardening.
625
00:46:08,667 --> 00:46:13,827
And yeah, sort of evaluate like the negative effects associated with shoreline
626
00:46:13,827 --> 00:46:20,127
hardening and kind of look towards next steps for encouraging the adoption of
627
00:46:20,127 --> 00:46:22,747
these softer, gentler approaches.
628
00:46:22,747 --> 00:46:26,787
And what would you say, I guess, from your perspective, would be the negative
629
00:46:26,787 --> 00:46:29,607
effects of a hardened shoreline?
630
00:46:29,967 --> 00:46:34,087
Yeah, well, I mean, so the removal of vegetation being a big one.
631
00:46:34,187 --> 00:46:38,927
So you just don't have like where you likely had, you know, not all shorelines
632
00:46:38,927 --> 00:46:42,507
are vegetated, but whatever the natural shoreline condition was,
633
00:46:42,627 --> 00:46:45,587
that gets removed. And so it's no longer possible.
634
00:46:45,946 --> 00:46:50,566
Serving its intended purpose, either like in terms of coastal process,
635
00:46:50,746 --> 00:46:54,586
like shorelines are supposed to be dynamic by nature.
636
00:46:54,746 --> 00:46:58,026
They're supposed to erode and deposit sediment elsewhere.
637
00:46:58,726 --> 00:47:04,126
And so when you interrupt that with a hard structure, it no longer functions
638
00:47:04,126 --> 00:47:05,546
in the way it was intended.
639
00:47:05,826 --> 00:47:11,526
And so that always has some effect on the system and whether you see it right away or not is,
640
00:47:11,526 --> 00:47:14,486
you know it is a question but yeah it's
641
00:47:14,486 --> 00:47:17,966
likely often causes erosion in other
642
00:47:17,966 --> 00:47:20,826
areas where it might not have normally seen that
643
00:47:20,826 --> 00:47:23,906
yeah so so there's that and
644
00:47:23,906 --> 00:47:30,066
then so you know the if you had if you replace a natural you know cobble beach
645
00:47:30,066 --> 00:47:35,766
or a dune system with a wall again that interrupts the normal process you don't
646
00:47:35,766 --> 00:47:39,166
you know there's there's all sorts of we don't you know certainly Certainly
647
00:47:39,166 --> 00:47:42,166
not on the engineering side and even in the ecology side.
648
00:47:42,246 --> 00:47:46,986
I don't think there's a full understanding of all of the interactions in a natural system.
649
00:47:47,106 --> 00:47:49,126
And so to change that. It's so complicated.
650
00:47:49,906 --> 00:47:54,686
Yeah. Yeah. Like you can't even anticipate all of the effects.
651
00:47:55,126 --> 00:47:58,586
I know. Yeah. Yeah. There are many for sure.
652
00:47:58,746 --> 00:48:05,526
And so I think, you know, whatever can be done to avoid that is just smart.
653
00:48:05,846 --> 00:48:10,406
Yeah. Yeah. And don't get me wrong, when someone builds like a cottage or a
654
00:48:10,406 --> 00:48:12,946
structure, you know, that still has its effects.
655
00:48:13,606 --> 00:48:17,126
So I'm not saying, you know, it's just the shoreline. It's definitely,
656
00:48:17,246 --> 00:48:20,266
it's everything when you're developing a property.
657
00:48:20,446 --> 00:48:24,106
And that's why I'm just looking to speak to people about, you know,
658
00:48:24,106 --> 00:48:29,706
how can we maybe just be doing it better and reducing our impact as much as we can?
659
00:48:29,806 --> 00:48:35,006
Because like I said, it's so inevitable that we're going to keep developing
660
00:48:35,006 --> 00:48:36,526
these shorelines, like...
661
00:48:37,187 --> 00:48:41,567
Forever. It's just, it's going to keep happening. So I'm really grateful for
662
00:48:41,567 --> 00:48:45,107
your perspective on all of this, because again, I'm not an expert.
663
00:48:45,187 --> 00:48:49,187
And I think coming from the engineering side of things is a really interesting
664
00:48:49,187 --> 00:48:54,327
perspective, because I have talked to other people who are maybe more,
665
00:48:54,447 --> 00:49:00,347
I guess, like conservation and climate focused that don't have the engineering experience.
666
00:49:00,347 --> 00:49:03,567
Experience so it's really nice
667
00:49:03,567 --> 00:49:06,707
to see both sides or all sides of
668
00:49:06,707 --> 00:49:09,387
the equation because again sustainability is like
669
00:49:09,387 --> 00:49:12,767
this huge topic huge question there's no
670
00:49:12,767 --> 00:49:16,047
like right answer because it's so broad
671
00:49:16,047 --> 00:49:18,767
so i really appreciate hearing your
672
00:49:18,767 --> 00:49:22,247
perspective on everything it's it's a very very great
673
00:49:22,247 --> 00:49:28,207
to hear it all i think you answered everything at least in some way of all the
674
00:49:28,207 --> 00:49:33,007
things I wanted to talk about which is so exciting is there anything you wanted
675
00:49:33,007 --> 00:49:41,527
to ask me yeah well I did wonder like you have your perspective as like a designer and.
676
00:49:42,327 --> 00:49:48,367
Yeah I guess I wondered what you thought in terms of like where are there opportunities to,
677
00:49:49,087 --> 00:49:52,827
to kind of push the needle on more
678
00:49:52,827 --> 00:49:56,027
natural approaches like both to shoreline protection and
679
00:49:56,027 --> 00:49:59,047
otherwise like design I guess like
680
00:49:59,047 --> 00:50:02,687
yeah no so coming from
681
00:50:02,687 --> 00:50:05,787
an interior design side of things I'm also really involved in the
682
00:50:05,787 --> 00:50:08,767
architecture and I actually am planning to
683
00:50:08,767 --> 00:50:12,167
go back to school in the fall for architectural technology so
684
00:50:12,167 --> 00:50:14,967
that I can really do the whole drawing set
685
00:50:14,967 --> 00:50:18,047
kind of like an advanced diploma yeah so
686
00:50:18,047 --> 00:50:20,987
I'm excited to do that but I think for
687
00:50:20,987 --> 00:50:24,447
me like I've talked to a lot of other architects a lot of other builders and
688
00:50:24,447 --> 00:50:28,407
they all have slightly different opinions obviously but I think the most important
689
00:50:28,407 --> 00:50:34,667
thing is just to reduce your square footage like reduce your actual square footage
690
00:50:34,667 --> 00:50:40,547
on the property and like building vertical is good but I mean it's like,
691
00:50:41,275 --> 00:50:44,155
It's that and then also reducing your energy use.
692
00:50:44,575 --> 00:50:52,575
So if you can harness passive heating and cooling versus the way that you're structured,
693
00:50:52,855 --> 00:50:56,155
if you have this luxury, because a lot of people don't have this luxury,
694
00:50:56,275 --> 00:51:02,215
but to build something with orientation that makes sense for passive heating and cooling.
695
00:51:02,455 --> 00:51:08,775
Then it reduces so much of your energy costs over the year.
696
00:51:08,775 --> 00:51:12,235
And that's really the amount of energy that is significant
697
00:51:12,235 --> 00:51:15,195
over the life cycle of your home it's like
698
00:51:15,195 --> 00:51:18,195
yes there's a lot of energy going into
699
00:51:18,195 --> 00:51:21,075
the build of your home and if you can also reduce the
700
00:51:21,075 --> 00:51:24,075
amount of concrete you're using that's also great and
701
00:51:24,075 --> 00:51:26,815
if you're building something smaller you don't need as much concrete and maybe
702
00:51:26,815 --> 00:51:29,675
you don't need like an icf foundation you can
703
00:51:29,675 --> 00:51:33,495
just do like peers and just
704
00:51:33,495 --> 00:51:37,335
like again these are this all
705
00:51:37,335 --> 00:51:40,095
basically revolves around building smaller i think these
706
00:51:40,095 --> 00:51:42,975
are just things that we need to talk more
707
00:51:42,975 --> 00:51:45,975
about and discuss because i also believe that the
708
00:51:45,975 --> 00:51:48,815
clients might not be aware of all of these
709
00:51:48,815 --> 00:51:52,395
considerations but i think any step in.
710
00:51:52,395 --> 00:51:55,955
That direction is good yeah for sure yeah that's great
711
00:51:55,955 --> 00:51:59,295
it's interesting to hear what uh yeah
712
00:51:59,295 --> 00:52:02,355
what you're experience is on that i mean i think it's it's
713
00:52:02,355 --> 00:52:06,055
it's really realistic to recognize that
714
00:52:06,055 --> 00:52:09,275
you know the bigger building the more
715
00:52:09,275 --> 00:52:14,355
it you know generally the more its demands are in terms of like both the construction
716
00:52:14,355 --> 00:52:20,195
you know the upfront and then the operating cost and footprint so you know i
717
00:52:20,195 --> 00:52:27,035
think to to try to avoid that conversation is is you know is what yeah it's
718
00:52:27,035 --> 00:52:28,675
here in the first place Yeah,
719
00:52:28,675 --> 00:52:33,215
I think more people are acknowledging that. For sure.
720
00:52:33,355 --> 00:52:38,035
And I do really think that more and more people are at least acknowledging it
721
00:52:38,035 --> 00:52:40,095
and being like, oh, we should consider it.
722
00:52:41,068 --> 00:52:44,768
Different practices. So I think it's just going to keep moving in a good direction.
723
00:52:44,828 --> 00:52:46,888
And I think inevitably, it will have to.
724
00:52:47,248 --> 00:52:52,268
So yeah, I think we just keep, you know, the conversations going and be really
725
00:52:52,268 --> 00:52:57,248
gentle on each other and just trying to understand all sides of the equation.
726
00:52:57,568 --> 00:53:02,028
Because like, we all have different perspectives, and we all have different specialties.
727
00:53:02,028 --> 00:53:06,228
And like, I, I can't judge your engineering, because I don't know much about
728
00:53:06,228 --> 00:53:08,588
what you really do day to day.
729
00:53:08,588 --> 00:53:11,628
And it's you know there's so many reasons
730
00:53:11,628 --> 00:53:14,768
why you might engineer something a certain way for the function of
731
00:53:14,768 --> 00:53:17,668
it so for me to say oh you shouldn't do that
732
00:53:17,668 --> 00:53:22,008
because it has an effect on the environment doesn't really make sense and same
733
00:53:22,008 --> 00:53:25,628
with building like everything is going to have an impact and it's just like
734
00:53:25,628 --> 00:53:30,028
how can we at least reduce it or slow it down a little bit and just work together
735
00:53:30,028 --> 00:53:35,828
in this whole industry to to all understand what each other do yeah yeah i I
736
00:53:35,828 --> 00:53:37,048
think that, yeah, for sure.
737
00:53:37,148 --> 00:53:42,588
No, I think in, in this, like in the sustainability and climate resilience area,
738
00:53:42,648 --> 00:53:46,288
as much as anything, it's, it has to be collaborative because no,
739
00:53:46,348 --> 00:53:48,148
no one person has all the answers.
740
00:53:48,368 --> 00:53:53,688
And also like if one person's doing something that they consider sustainable.
741
00:53:54,368 --> 00:53:59,228
Like if, if not everyone on the project is on the same page with that,
742
00:53:59,288 --> 00:54:05,888
then, you know, The architect could design something with no regard to it.
743
00:54:06,028 --> 00:54:11,648
And then when I get there, I'm like, oh, well, I guess I have some say in the material.
744
00:54:11,828 --> 00:54:14,128
But if I'm not working with the architect from the very beginning,
745
00:54:14,328 --> 00:54:16,988
then my impact is much less.
746
00:54:17,528 --> 00:54:23,788
Yes, that whole from the start kind of philosophy. Yes. That definitely helped.
747
00:54:24,208 --> 00:54:28,308
Yeah. Well, I just want to say thank you so much for all of your perspectives.
748
00:54:28,428 --> 00:54:33,668
This has been so nice. and I'm really excited to see what you guys keep doing in the future.
749
00:54:34,767 --> 00:54:40,307
In terms of, yeah, I guess like this specific coastal development topic.
750
00:54:41,387 --> 00:54:44,907
But yeah, I think you're doing great things. And I just want to say thank you
751
00:54:44,907 --> 00:54:48,407
so much for participating and for reaching out to be on the podcast.
752
00:54:48,627 --> 00:54:52,187
So that's great. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.
753
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:59,760
Music.
754
00:54:58,627 --> 00:55:03,727
Thank you so, so much for listening to this week's episode.
755
00:55:03,927 --> 00:55:07,967
I so so appreciate every single listener that tunes in, every single reader
756
00:55:07,967 --> 00:55:10,247
that reads the blog rewinddesign.ca.
757
00:55:10,547 --> 00:55:14,967
The best thing you can do for me to support me in this journey is to either
758
00:55:14,967 --> 00:55:19,447
follow along on Spotify, Apple Music, or whichever platform you listen to,
759
00:55:19,527 --> 00:55:20,507
click that follow button.
760
00:55:20,647 --> 00:55:24,447
The second best thing you can do is share this podcast to your friends and family.
761
00:55:24,467 --> 00:55:28,027
If anyone you know might be interested, just forward this along to them and
762
00:55:28,027 --> 00:55:30,967
tell them to take a listen or take a peek at my website.
763
00:55:31,207 --> 00:55:36,047
And if you're interested in supporting me further, I also have a Patreon account
764
00:55:36,047 --> 00:55:39,567
where you can donate $5 a month to the podcast.
765
00:55:39,907 --> 00:55:43,247
And a portion of that will also go to the Georgian Bay Land Trust,
766
00:55:43,407 --> 00:55:46,727
and that is patreon.com slash rewinddesign.
767
00:55:46,827 --> 00:55:48,367
No pressure to do any of that.
768
00:55:48,487 --> 00:55:52,247
I'm just so happy if you're listening to this and if you love cottage country
769
00:55:52,247 --> 00:55:54,887
and Georgian Bay and Muskoka as much as I do.
770
00:55:54,987 --> 00:55:58,207
So thank you again so much and stay tuned for another episode.
771
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:11,717
Music.