Perspective Checks | Games, Life, and the Human Experience with SuperDillin (One Shot)

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Welcome to another episode of
Perspective Checks, where I sit
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down with friends and folks from the
TTRPG community to talk about all the
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things we love about this shared hobby
and community that we are all in.
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Today, I am super stoked for
my guest that is joining today.
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He is the host of One Shot.
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He is an author.
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He is actual play excellence, a
crazy track record of years and years
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of just nothing but bangers, game
designer of whom I've played one
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of your games on my podcast here.
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Dillin Apelyan, Super Dillin,
thank you so much for coming on.
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Hi, thank you so, so much for having me.
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What game did you play?
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Hunter Hunted?
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How do you
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say it?
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You, you played Hunter Hunted, yeah.
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We, Megan and I have a, a little
joke that, uh, its government name
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is Hunter Hunted- Okay … uh,
but its nickname is Huntard.
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Hunt- Sure Because a lot of
people do say it that way.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Uh, and it's funny, I s-
I just said Hunter Hunted.
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I think that's how I said it in
the recording with my friend.
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Uh, but I'm also rewatching
Hunter x Hunter, so my brain
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just, just did it, uh, so.
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I know, and that came af- out after,
and I keep getting jump scared by it,
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thinking that people… Especially
when people have hot takes about
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it, and I'm like, "Wait, what?
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No.
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No, no." You know, there is one
particular relationship- … in Hunter x
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Hunter the anime that I feel like would
work in Hunter Hunted in a weird way.
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Yeah.
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It, it
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could happen.
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It could happen.
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Anyway-
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Oh, hell yeah.
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So yeah, thank you so much.
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Well, thanks for
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having me on.
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And
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actually, hold on.
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I came with props.
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Uh, uh, we're already off- … uh,
off the tangent, but I- Good … not
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that long ago on social media, I was
thrifting with my wife, uh, a- and
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I was like- Yeah … "Doo, doo, doo,
doo, doo," and I was like, "Oh my God,
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they have, like, a ring toss thing."
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And I jokingly, I think, tagged you and
Megan and I was like, "Should I buy this?"
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And you guys were like, "Yeah." Yeah.
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And I was like, "I did it." So-
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Yeah.
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Yeah Hell yeah
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…
in an audio
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only medium.
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It's the hook and ring… The, it's
the hook and ring game, which is,
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like, you see them occasionally
in bars, which I think is fun.
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Yeah.
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I'm seeing them a little bit more
around the Brooklyn area recently,
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where, you know, it's like you're,
you're competing to get the ring-
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Yeah … on the hook before your
opponent, and that is the thing that
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inspired Hunter Hunted, and there is a
way to play it with that instead of the
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dice mode that we wrote the game for.
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But, like, yeah, I think it's
so… I think it's so much fun.
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It was so fun.
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I'm glad you have one.
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I was like, "I'm just gonna buy it just
for this." Mm. So, like, if I ever play
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this game in person, you know, 'cause my
friend and I played it, uh, digitally,
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and I was like, "Yeah, this is great.
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I wanna, I wanna have it." My
brother-in-law actually built,
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like, a ring toss thing, like,
in his backyard on, like, a tree.
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It was, like, this huge one.
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Oh, the massive ones.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, the huge ones.
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Yeah.
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I've seen that.
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Uh- That's cool.
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Yeah.
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Uh, anyway, we're already we're
already off on a tangent, but,
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uh, there's, there's another prop.
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We'll talk about it later.
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But prop- Ooh, exciting … I
just, I don't know.
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Okay, but yeah.
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Uh, anyway, before we get into the
everything we're gonna talk about
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today, um, I start every interview
off with the same three questions.
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So for those people who are listening
to my podcast and somehow don't listen
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to your podcast, the One Shot podcast-
I guess this is the time for them to
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get to know you, but they'll all soon
be, I'm sure, devouring that whole
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backlog of, uh, yours and James'-
Ooh, I hope so … fifth episode.
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The first episode.
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It's the basic one.
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It's the origin story.
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It is how long have you been playing
TTRPGs or been around the hobby?
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Yeah.
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I've been around the hobby
for a very long time.
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Um, I didn't play them
when I was super young.
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I w- I didn't get into them as a
teenager or young teenager necessarily.
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In my late teens, I was a goth
kid and I got into, like, the
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Vampire: The Masquerade, Demon: The
Fallen, Werewolf: The Apocalypse.
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That, that, that whole genre of,
of games from World of Darkness.
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Mm-hmm.
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I didn't know about Dungeons & Dragons
for a long time because I thought that it
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was something like Magic: The Gathering,
which I knew very early on was not for me.
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Uh, and I linked them in my brain and just
thought that those were the same thing,
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and then years later found out the truth.
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But then I got into, I
got into the steampunk
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area of things.
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Sure.
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I was a frequenter at a massive
steampunk convention that no longer
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exists for very good reasons, but I
was there a lot and I would wi- wind up
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spending a lot of my time in the gaming
areas, in the gaming floors, and then
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eventually became the organizer for
the gaming floors for, uh, for that.
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And, uh, and that was a lot of
board games and RPGs, uh, even
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though I'm not a big board gamer.
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But, like- Mm … organizing
that, I was setting up those
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tables and stuff like that.
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And in that, in the organizing is
how I eventually, because I was
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doing outreach for sponsorships for
the convention, that is kind of how
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I found the greater tabletop world.
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Uh- Yeah … and like in the- You
went deeper into the niche Yeah.
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And then when I discovered the niche,
that's when I really, like, lost
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my mind and became totally, uh, you
know, immersed in, in where I am now.
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Never looked back.
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Yeah.
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Uh, yeah.
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You know- Mm-hmm … it's
funny, um, somehow I missed
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it my whole life growing up.
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I was like a JRPG one player game, like
80-hour story game, you know, player
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Yeah
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And somehow I just missed it.
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Somehow I never knew it was a thing.
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And somehow I've also never played
a World of Darkness game, and I
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don't know how that's a thing.
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Oh, man.
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You know, it's like, they're games
that are interesting because I don't
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think they, I don't think that they
necessarily do what they set out
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to do very well as games now that I
know so much about what games can do.
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I don't think their, like, mechanics
necessarily, like, are, are really
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focused on what their ethos is
and what they're trying to do.
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So they're not like, they're not perfect
games in any way, but they all have such
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strong pitches and such- Yeah … strong
themes that if, it's somewhat like
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Dungeons & Dragons is in this way.
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If you have a really good game master
who gets the pitch of these games- Yeah
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… really well, then they can be amazing.
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But what I really love about, you
know, uh, especially the world of more
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independently published TTRPGs and,
and all of that, is that a lot of those
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games, you find that they're designed
so well and so intentional that you can
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pick them up and you don't have to be,
you don't have to have an expert- Yes
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at your table necessarily.
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The game guides you to fulfill
what it's trying to fulfill.
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And World of Darkness games,
Dungeons & Dragons, I feel like
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it's like if you have a really great
game master, then those games go so
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well, and they are so interesting.
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And then similarly, if you don't,
then they can be kind of a hot mess.
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Um- Yeah, yeah … and that but, but I
did love them, and I, and I do still have
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a very warm place for them because they
introduced me to such weird story pitches.
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Yeah, I think, I mean, I'd still play one.
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Uh, you know, and I, and I-
Mm-hmm … own a few of them.
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Yeah.
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Uh, and like have like r- pff, you
know, rifled through the books and been
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like, "Okay, this is what we're doing."
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Mm. I agree, though.
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Like, I think it's funny.
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They definitely sell the vibe.
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Like, the vibe is so
strong in those games.
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It's just like-
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It's so
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strong … oh my God.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, we're, we're gonna, we're
gonna be like morally gray vampires,
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PVP, like, you know what I mean?
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All this stuff.
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Yeah.
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But then you sit down to play the game,
and then it's kinda funny that you…
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We're already off on a
tan- another tangent.
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But, you know- Yeah … indie games,
the designers are so intentional that
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the game matches the vibe, matches
the story that you're gonna tell.
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The big games, D&Ds, the… And I
don't wanna say White Wolves are
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the big ones, but like the bigger
brand recognition ones, right?
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Like vampires- Yeah … have video games.
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Cyberpunk's got video games.
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I might even lump that in, I
think, actually, too, with the
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same thing, play experience.
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Where- I know,
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yeah
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…
um, where I think that you go because
you're like, "I know what this is
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supposed to feel like," and then you
need a GM to interpret vibe to play.
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To table, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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Um-
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Absolutely.
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So, good, pretty good, pretty good segue
into the second intro question, which is,
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what games have you been playing lately?
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That's a loaded question
for you, I think Oh
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my gosh.
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It is a really loaded question for me.
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Um, so I, uh, I just recently played
Rom Com Drama Bomb, which is- Mm-hmm
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a game I've played, like, you know,
I, I don't know, like 15 times.
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I, I love the game.
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It's one of my favorites, but I got
to play it for One Shot recently,
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and it was a particularly great play
through, but it's just such a fun game.
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I've been playing Genesis, the
Genesis System- Ooh, okay … for
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the first time in a home game, and
that has been- I like those dice
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interesting because it's a… I do.
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I, I… It was a funny thing where
I, I thought that it was gonna be
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super complicated, and it is when
you first are trying to absorb it.
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But then, like, once you get
it, it's actually not that hard.
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It's not, it's not that difficult,
and then it, it gets fun.
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And then I, I, I got a shout-out,
I think, Realis, which we
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also got to play- Oh, yeah
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on One Shot kind of recently, and I
think is still sticking with me in my
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brain as another one of those, like,
wow, this kinda cracked something open-
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Yeah … for me about, about games
and, and how they work and what they
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can be and what they can use and how
they can be crunchy in, in fun ways.
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Yeah.
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Uh- Yeah … so that's a, that's
a little smattering, uh- Very
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of some of the games I've played.
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That's a very good, yeah, and short list.
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Thank you, 'cause I… That
could've been the whole
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episode.
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I'd been like, "Dillin, what have you been
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playing lately?" And you're just like,
"Okay, I'll see you in 20 minutes.
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I'm gonna go get it."
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But, uh, yeah.
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Uh, we were talking about Rom Com Drama
Bomb a little bit before we hit record.
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That's still somehow, you know, a game
that I wanna get on, uh, Valentine's Day.
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Realis I backed.
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I think I agree.
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Like, the, the bits I've seen
of it, the PD… Like, the PDF
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00:10:10,327 --> 00:10:11,428
previews, the things like that.
234
00:10:11,477 --> 00:10:14,578
Uh, obviously it was out and, and
whatnot before the crowdfunding.
235
00:10:15,287 --> 00:10:16,527
But yeah, I think it's
funny that you mention it.
236
00:10:16,528 --> 00:10:19,808
It's like, it's both somehow crunchy,
but also, like, there's no dice.
237
00:10:19,827 --> 00:10:20,968
You're just playing with words.
238
00:10:21,227 --> 00:10:21,567
And it's like-
239
00:10:21,587 --> 00:10:23,607
Yeah … making sentences- But
it is crunchy- And it's… Yeah.
240
00:10:23,607 --> 00:10:24,717
… in a surprising way.
241
00:10:24,787 --> 00:10:25,097
Yes.
242
00:10:25,097 --> 00:10:25,487
Yeah, yeah.
243
00:10:25,647 --> 00:10:27,967
It is, it is definitely one of
those games that I feel like…
244
00:10:28,227 --> 00:10:32,077
Uh, and the crowdfunding did
well, so I think that, uh- Yeah
245
00:10:32,097 --> 00:10:36,437
hopefully enough people do get it,
read it, play it, and it breaks down
246
00:10:36,437 --> 00:10:39,378
some of those walls for, like, "Hey,
we have a whole new, like, room to play
247
00:10:39,378 --> 00:10:41,188
in, in the TTRPG design space maybe."
248
00:10:41,197 --> 00:10:41,517
Right.
249
00:10:41,538 --> 00:10:42,887
Um- I want more word games.
250
00:10:42,898 --> 00:10:42,918
Yeah.
251
00:10:42,928 --> 00:10:43,388
I wanna see it.
252
00:10:43,458 --> 00:10:43,728
Yeah.
253
00:10:43,728 --> 00:10:44,148
Uh, yeah.
254
00:10:44,158 --> 00:10:44,198
Mm-hmm.
255
00:10:45,027 --> 00:10:48,898
I, as a big, like… Since, like, high
school, I don't know what prompted it, uh,
256
00:10:48,947 --> 00:10:50,627
I'm like a big crossword puzzle person.
257
00:10:50,648 --> 00:10:52,797
Like, I love, like- Yeah … word
games and stuff like that.
258
00:10:53,148 --> 00:10:56,947
I've been, like, trying a
crossword dungeon game design
259
00:10:56,987 --> 00:10:58,038
concept for a long time.
260
00:10:58,038 --> 00:10:58,348
Fun.
261
00:10:58,348 --> 00:10:58,838
More word games.
262
00:10:58,838 --> 00:10:59,087
Yeah.
263
00:10:59,097 --> 00:10:59,677
More word games.
264
00:10:59,977 --> 00:11:00,287
Anyway.
265
00:11:00,497 --> 00:11:00,947
Heck yeah.
266
00:11:01,568 --> 00:11:01,938
Yeah.
267
00:11:02,178 --> 00:11:06,127
Uh, so and now my totally smooth,
not at all forced, uh, obvious
268
00:11:06,127 --> 00:11:10,018
third question here, which is
what are we talking about today?
269
00:11:11,295 --> 00:11:13,726
Oh my God, what are we
talking about today?
270
00:11:13,736 --> 00:11:13,976
Yeah.
271
00:11:13,976 --> 00:11:14,076
I
272
00:11:15,646 --> 00:11:15,936
mean- You know, a little
bit of everything.
273
00:11:15,936 --> 00:11:16,086
Yeah.
274
00:11:17,106 --> 00:11:18,555
We… I- talking about games.
275
00:11:18,555 --> 00:11:18,946
I mean-
276
00:11:18,946 --> 00:11:19,305
Yeah
277
00:11:19,305 --> 00:11:24,606
…
yeah, I, I just like, I mean, this is,
this is my favorite subject on earth.
278
00:11:24,606 --> 00:11:26,295
It's my favorite thing on earth.
279
00:11:26,295 --> 00:11:29,866
So- Mm … I mean, the, the ways
in which I could talk about it
280
00:11:29,906 --> 00:11:31,686
are just kind of innumerable.
281
00:11:32,185 --> 00:11:33,475
Mm-hmm.
282
00:11:33,475 --> 00:11:35,496
Uh, I, I, I love, I love games.
283
00:11:35,515 --> 00:11:36,505
I love designing them.
284
00:11:36,535 --> 00:11:37,496
I love playing them.
285
00:11:37,525 --> 00:11:44,045
I love turning them into art
and story, uh, for an audience.
286
00:11:44,045 --> 00:11:44,976
I, I love it.
287
00:11:45,005 --> 00:11:48,566
Actual play is actually, like, one of
my favorite mediums of anything ever.
288
00:11:48,586 --> 00:11:54,355
Um, so I, I… there's just
so much to, to talk about and
289
00:11:54,356 --> 00:11:56,605
to love and there's no- Yeah
290
00:11:56,606 --> 00:11:57,495
sort of shortage of it for me.
291
00:11:57,496 --> 00:12:01,705
Well, and with… And yeah, th- that
was kind of a… Normally it's the
292
00:12:01,705 --> 00:12:03,575
question where it's like, "Hey, we've
discussed, like, a little bit of a
293
00:12:03,575 --> 00:12:06,295
topic beforehand."
Dillin, y- like, you do so
294
00:12:06,295 --> 00:12:09,645
much in this space that, like, for you
it was kinda just like, "Just come.
295
00:12:09,645 --> 00:12:10,806
Let- … let's just have a conversation.
296
00:12:10,895 --> 00:12:11,585
Uh, let's see where it goes."
297
00:12:11,595 --> 00:12:12,155
Yeah.
298
00:12:12,375 --> 00:12:15,935
And, you know, you saying actual play
is one of your favorite mediums for
299
00:12:15,935 --> 00:12:19,455
just entertainment, I recently just,
uh… Actually, this month when we're
300
00:12:19,455 --> 00:12:22,895
recording, uh, not when this is coming
out, uh, the episode, the interview
301
00:12:22,896 --> 00:12:27,275
I put out was about, uh, AP theory,
and about, like, media studies- Yeah
302
00:12:27,275 --> 00:12:32,755
and about the medium as an entertainment
form that is kind of still, like, blowing
303
00:12:32,755 --> 00:12:36,185
up, but becoming obviously something
that's a little more mainstream, right?
304
00:12:36,185 --> 00:12:39,056
Like, we've had the Critical Roles-
Yeah … and the Dimension 20s and,
305
00:12:39,076 --> 00:12:41,896
you know, the Adventure Zones on tours,
and live shows, and huge and big-
306
00:12:41,905 --> 00:12:42,145
Right
307
00:12:42,255 --> 00:12:42,495
…
uh,
308
00:12:43,805 --> 00:12:43,895
all this stuff
309
00:12:44,225 --> 00:12:45,305
Madison Square Garden.
310
00:12:45,305 --> 00:12:45,335
Um- Yeah, yeah.
311
00:12:45,335 --> 00:12:45,385
But yeah, Madison Square Garden.
312
00:12:45,385 --> 00:12:47,575
I mean, like, this- I know … is
not small thing, you know?
313
00:12:47,575 --> 00:12:47,865
Um-
314
00:12:47,865 --> 00:12:48,095
Right
315
00:12:48,195 --> 00:12:53,616
…
so it is really interesting to see
where this is going to go, like how
316
00:12:53,645 --> 00:12:57,675
people continue to not only push design,
right, of games, uh, like we've been
317
00:12:57,675 --> 00:13:01,886
talking about, the indie intentionality
of games and the desired experience
318
00:13:01,886 --> 00:13:06,035
and mechanics matching that, but
mechanics evolving and AP evolving.
319
00:13:06,286 --> 00:13:09,946
Uh, what kind of experience
can you provide in an AP?
320
00:13:10,555 --> 00:13:13,545
And, you know, honestly, One
Shot is, uh, is always I feel
321
00:13:13,545 --> 00:13:14,505
like at the forefront of that.
322
00:13:14,545 --> 00:13:16,205
I've loved everything you've done with it.
323
00:13:16,545 --> 00:13:20,465
And actually speaking of the many, many
things that you do in this space, in
324
00:13:20,466 --> 00:13:23,039
my outline I did kind of, like, dig
at James Demato here just as a joke.
325
00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:23,172
And for the record, James, uh- As a joke.
326
00:13:23,172 --> 00:13:24,606
We love James … hi, how are you?
327
00:13:24,606 --> 00:13:25,125
We loved James.
328
00:13:25,305 --> 00:13:25,835
Hi, James.
329
00:13:25,835 --> 00:13:25,985
Um,
330
00:13:25,985 --> 00:13:26,255
hi.
331
00:13:29,285 --> 00:13:30,995
Uh, but I did say first, congratulations.
332
00:13:31,106 --> 00:13:33,255
You recently published a book with James.
333
00:13:33,296 --> 00:13:38,005
Uh, like- I did … not just a, a game,
right, but a book, The Ultimate RPG
334
00:13:38,016 --> 00:13:43,100
Villain Backstory Guide, which Part
of the whole, uh, series that James
335
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:46,230
has been doing- Ultimate RPG series,
yeah … the Ultimate RPG series.
336
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:48,260
Congratulations on that.
337
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:49,290
Thank you.
338
00:13:49,790 --> 00:13:50,880
Thank you so much.
339
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:56,090
I mean, I, it, that is still, is
still very much a surreal experience.
340
00:13:56,110 --> 00:14:02,209
Um, this is, you know, the, the Ultimate
RPG series is like, um, ultimately
341
00:14:02,379 --> 00:14:04,520
those books are collections of games.
342
00:14:04,990 --> 00:14:05,299
Mm-hmm.
343
00:14:05,629 --> 00:14:09,669
They're wall to wall filled with
mini-games and exercises, uh,
344
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:10,630
whatever you wanna call them.
345
00:14:10,630 --> 00:14:15,610
But like, if you are immersed at all in
the world of solo RPGs, the, these are
346
00:14:15,610 --> 00:14:17,439
basically big collections of solo- Yes
347
00:14:17,439 --> 00:14:23,510
RPGs, all designed to help you build
interesting villains, unique villains,
348
00:14:23,510 --> 00:14:29,590
with a mix of different backstories
and motivations and connections to your
349
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:31,499
larger world, whatever it's gonna be.
350
00:14:31,849 --> 00:14:34,180
So these are books
definitely aimed at gamers.
351
00:14:34,209 --> 00:14:37,940
Uh, they definitely are aimed at
gamers who are playing in the games
352
00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:40,879
that we talked about earlier, like
World of Darkness games or- Mm-hmm
353
00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:46,380
Call of Cthulhu, where your characters are
maybe not meant to be complete good guys.
354
00:14:46,739 --> 00:14:51,370
Um- Yeah … uh, so it's also meant for
players who are trying to make characters
355
00:14:51,370 --> 00:14:56,980
that aren't necessarily full-blown
heroes, but also for GMs who are making
356
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,829
their outright villains and antagonists.
357
00:15:00,250 --> 00:15:04,349
And then also like, also is
something that's good for writers
358
00:15:04,349 --> 00:15:05,279
and people who are- Mm-hmm
359
00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:08,859
otherwise creating villains
for a larger story and world.
360
00:15:09,470 --> 00:15:15,299
The, the, the book series is so
foundational, and I'm so excited that
361
00:15:15,299 --> 00:15:20,919
I got to work on this one in particular
because I love, I love villains,
362
00:15:21,009 --> 00:15:27,269
I love morally gray characters, I
love- Mm-hmm … complex anti-heroes.
363
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:28,289
Mm.
364
00:15:28,439 --> 00:15:31,819
So I really… And I, and I love
the supernatural, which I think,
365
00:15:31,819 --> 00:15:34,460
like, if the supernatural done well,
especially when you're talking about
366
00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:36,349
something like vampires- Mm-hmm
367
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:42,299
um, and those classic supernaturals,
it's like, it's almost silly to try to
368
00:15:42,299 --> 00:15:47,421
write them as- uh, full-blown heroes,
um- Right, right … because their
369
00:15:47,421 --> 00:15:53,952
existence is, is, is dependent on
the- Their monster … life beings.
370
00:15:53,952 --> 00:15:53,982
Yeah.
371
00:15:53,982 --> 00:15:55,322
Yeah, of, of another.
372
00:15:55,322 --> 00:16:01,442
So it's so fun to be able to play
with that, and I am just, like, I'm
373
00:16:01,442 --> 00:16:02,881
just so excited that I got to do it.
374
00:16:02,882 --> 00:16:06,531
It was, it was amazing and
intimidating and still is.
375
00:16:07,541 --> 00:16:08,482
I've- Yeah, I believe it.
376
00:16:08,511 --> 00:16:13,131
Um, and you know, and I, I love the way
you framed it, too, um, where obviously
377
00:16:13,132 --> 00:16:17,512
this is not only a tool, right, for GMs-
Yeah … who want to build villains.
378
00:16:17,551 --> 00:16:20,401
I love the idea of a player grabbing
it and being like, "Maybe here's
379
00:16:20,401 --> 00:16:21,741
my character's, like, weakness.
380
00:16:21,761 --> 00:16:27,811
This is, this is the road that might lead
me to becoming, uh, less- Yeah … of
381
00:16:27,811 --> 00:16:29,841
a shining hero kind of figure."
382
00:16:30,111 --> 00:16:30,441
Yeah.
383
00:16:30,732 --> 00:16:34,041
But also, yeah, I think that… And,
and framing it in the, uh, Somebody
384
00:16:34,051 --> 00:16:38,531
Right Here, my, my whole podcast is
mostly solo actual plays, um, just
385
00:16:38,531 --> 00:16:41,051
because of the scheduling and stuff like
that has become difficult outside of
386
00:16:41,051 --> 00:16:45,421
home games to, to do long-form gaming
sessions, so I play a lot of solo games.
387
00:16:45,872 --> 00:16:49,391
I never thought of, uh, you know, I've
actually used many of the tables and
388
00:16:49,391 --> 00:16:53,021
mini-games and, like, thought, uh,
experiments that go on in these, in these
389
00:16:53,251 --> 00:16:59,941
books to think of building out sections
of my world or, or characteristics
390
00:16:59,952 --> 00:17:01,521
of, of NPCs and stuff like that.
391
00:17:01,912 --> 00:17:04,801
But, uh, I never thought of them as,
like, mini-games for solo, 'cause it
392
00:17:04,801 --> 00:17:05,871
really is kind of what it is, right?
393
00:17:05,871 --> 00:17:06,391
Like, you have to go through-
394
00:17:06,391 --> 00:17:06,851
Yeah
395
00:17:07,401 --> 00:17:10,941
…
the process and in that, that is play
really is what you're doing if you're-
396
00:17:10,942 --> 00:17:11,271
Yeah.
397
00:17:11,861 --> 00:17:12,151
Yeah.
398
00:17:12,791 --> 00:17:13,081
Yeah.
399
00:17:13,081 --> 00:17:16,841
Um- And I mean, we have games in there,
too, that involve dice and drawing-
400
00:17:16,861 --> 00:17:21,551
Mm-hmm … from decks of cards and y- you
know, using randomization and, and, uh,
401
00:17:21,571 --> 00:17:23,672
puzzling things out and stuff like that.
402
00:17:23,681 --> 00:17:24,872
So we, we do.
403
00:17:24,891 --> 00:17:28,171
There are some that are more like
exercises where it's prompt and answer.
404
00:17:28,181 --> 00:17:28,201
Yeah.
405
00:17:28,571 --> 00:17:32,541
But there are a co- a couple of
decent games in there that are very,
406
00:17:32,541 --> 00:17:33,661
that are actually pretty gamey.
407
00:17:34,232 --> 00:17:34,722
Nice.
408
00:17:34,802 --> 00:17:34,902
Yeah.
409
00:17:35,131 --> 00:17:35,511
Mm-hmm.
410
00:17:35,561 --> 00:17:39,651
And speaking of, speaking of villains,
uh, one, I, I just wanna shout out I
411
00:17:39,831 --> 00:17:45,021
love the, uh, the openings of all of your
your, your podcasts where it's the, the
412
00:17:45,021 --> 00:17:47,091
studio, uh, you're locked in the studio.
413
00:17:47,091 --> 00:17:50,121
It's a little bit of villain
energy, uh, a little bit.
414
00:17:50,131 --> 00:17:51,411
It's, this is new.
415
00:17:51,421 --> 00:17:52,522
This is a new thing.
416
00:17:52,531 --> 00:17:58,131
I pl- I played a solo game recently
set in the One Shot studio, which is
417
00:17:58,131 --> 00:18:01,362
a fictionalized place I've created
'cause One Shot is recorded virtually.
418
00:18:01,821 --> 00:18:03,661
And I just wanted to have a studio.
419
00:18:03,691 --> 00:18:04,252
Yeah, it's so
420
00:18:04,261 --> 00:18:04,291
good.
421
00:18:04,312 --> 00:18:07,861
And it, for the last two years,
guests have been improvising about
422
00:18:07,861 --> 00:18:10,951
the studio and making things up, and
it's gotten more and more magical.
423
00:18:11,751 --> 00:18:17,491
We did a two-year anniversary
special that, like, really cemented
424
00:18:17,501 --> 00:18:21,311
that the studio is a, is a real
place and is a magical place.
425
00:18:22,081 --> 00:18:23,312
And it's tied to me.
426
00:18:23,321 --> 00:18:27,661
And so I played this solo game,
This Wretched House, um, I played
427
00:18:27,661 --> 00:18:32,981
recently, which is a game that
uses the Wretched and Alone system,
428
00:18:33,062 --> 00:18:34,851
Jenga, Jenga tower type game.
429
00:18:35,471 --> 00:18:40,662
And it- Uh, my ending that I got
in that game was that I w- my soul
430
00:18:40,662 --> 00:18:44,672
was taken by the ghosts that haunt
the place, and that I am a ghost.
431
00:18:44,672 --> 00:18:49,062
And so now that is just the reality
I'm living in until something
432
00:18:49,111 --> 00:18:50,552
comes along and changes that.
433
00:18:50,561 --> 00:18:55,072
I, uh, I as the host of One Shot am
a, a ghost trapped in the studio.
434
00:18:55,081 --> 00:18:55,101
Yeah.
435
00:18:55,412 --> 00:18:56,091
You're the s- Yeah.
436
00:18:56,091 --> 00:18:56,581
Yeah, exactly.
437
00:18:56,811 --> 00:18:57,021
Mm-hmm.
438
00:18:57,022 --> 00:18:57,621
That's excellent.
439
00:18:57,682 --> 00:19:02,960
And, uh, and obviously as the I think
almost always, I don't… I mean, uh,
440
00:19:02,970 --> 00:19:05,860
I think there's been a few that I've
heard that you're not, like, the GM.
441
00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:07,190
You play GM-less games.
442
00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:07,430
Yeah.
443
00:19:07,580 --> 00:19:07,870
Right?
444
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,150
Um, and there are times.
445
00:19:09,299 --> 00:19:09,490
But, uh-
446
00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:11,430
And sometimes I invite
other GMs on- Yeah, yeah
447
00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:15,709
uh, especially when it's their game,
like we did Force of Extinction recently,
448
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:20,129
and I, you know, I, I figure especially
because it's a game that's not out
449
00:19:20,170 --> 00:19:24,429
yet, the best way for that game to be
showcased is by the people who know it
450
00:19:24,439 --> 00:19:28,309
best, and- Mm-hmm … so yeah, we had Ed
Spence come and run it, and it was great.
451
00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:29,110
Yep.
452
00:19:29,150 --> 00:19:31,379
I think Tyler ran, uh, Realis, right, on-
453
00:19:31,429 --> 00:19:32,839
Tyler ran Realis
454
00:19:33,329 --> 00:19:33,497
…
on… Yep Yeah.
455
00:19:33,497 --> 00:19:33,538
So, so yeah.
456
00:19:33,538 --> 00:19:33,566
Mm-hmm.
457
00:19:33,566 --> 00:19:36,060
So you get to play as well, but
you're often playing villains.
458
00:19:36,099 --> 00:19:39,269
Uh, well, I'm just sticking on the
villain train for, for the book.
459
00:19:39,529 --> 00:19:42,480
Just- Uh-huh … I feel like, how do you
like, how do you like playing a villain?
460
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,009
Do you- I love it
461
00:19:44,009 --> 00:19:45,239
do you enjoy, do you enjoy it?
462
00:19:45,749 --> 00:19:47,309
I love to play a villain, yeah.
463
00:19:47,309 --> 00:19:48,199
It's so nice.
464
00:19:48,209 --> 00:19:51,609
It's so fun to be mean in a
controlled environment, you know?
465
00:19:51,609 --> 00:19:51,640
It's
466
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:52,489
so fun to be mean.
467
00:19:52,689 --> 00:19:52,889
Yeah.
468
00:19:52,889 --> 00:19:56,779
No, I think- It's so fun to be mean in a
controlled environment, and, um, it's, it
469
00:19:56,789 --> 00:20:02,329
is, it's just a, a great… It's a great
thing to be a good antagonist because
470
00:20:02,459 --> 00:20:05,229
that is how you are going to bring…
471
00:20:05,679 --> 00:20:10,599
You're gonna give your friends, or in
some cases your performers or w- whoever,
472
00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:16,399
you're gonna give them- Yep … those
opportunities to have their dramatic big
473
00:20:16,429 --> 00:20:18,779
moments, and that's- Mm-hmm … so fun.
474
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:19,999
It's so fun- Yeah … to do.
475
00:20:20,009 --> 00:20:20,069
It-
476
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:21,190
Yeah.
477
00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:25,341
You kind of are, like, setting the
stage, right, by being- Mm-hmm … the
478
00:20:25,341 --> 00:20:25,709
thing that they need to…
479
00:20:25,719 --> 00:20:26,019
Yeah.
480
00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:30,180
Like I was saying, we played Hunter Hunted
on this podcast, my friend Troy and I.
481
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,500
Uh, and you designed a game where there
really is always one of the two characters
482
00:20:34,509 --> 00:20:37,109
is kind of constantly hounding the other.
483
00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:38,910
It's a very- Yeah … antagonistic role.
484
00:20:38,910 --> 00:20:42,559
It's a very, you know- Yeah … very,
it's very easily villain.
485
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:43,310
You know, you can-
486
00:20:43,539 --> 00:20:43,779
Yeah
487
00:20:43,779 --> 00:20:47,079
…
slot it in as… Uh, I think we played
it kind of as a misunderstanding, uh,
488
00:20:47,109 --> 00:20:49,379
but obviously there was, like, vengeance-
Yeah … involved and stuff like that.
489
00:20:49,380 --> 00:20:52,159
But you could make it much
more, like, straightforward.
490
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:52,600
Um-
491
00:20:52,609 --> 00:20:52,809
Yeah
492
00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:53,649
…
yeah.
493
00:20:53,739 --> 00:20:57,189
Uh, I think- Absolutely … a few
of your games actually, uh, I think
494
00:20:57,239 --> 00:20:59,729
Husband, Daddy, Protector, Hero is PVP,
495
00:21:00,230 --> 00:21:06,699
which- So, so what's funny about Husband,
Daddy, Protector, Hero, uh, i- and many
496
00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:12,589
things are, is that when I first designed
it, it was designed to be a PVP game.
497
00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:16,149
And by that, I mean that… Uh,
do you know the lore behind this?
498
00:21:16,149 --> 00:21:19,369
Do you know that I, I designed
this game, uh, high as a kite?
499
00:21:19,389 --> 00:21:20,569
Is that, uh- I
500
00:21:20,589 --> 00:21:20,789
listened-
501
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:20,999
…
something
502
00:21:21,009 --> 00:21:21,339
you- You know what?
503
00:21:21,339 --> 00:21:24,570
I listened to the, the, the play
through you guys did of it, and
504
00:21:24,570 --> 00:21:25,969
I was laughing the entire time.
505
00:21:25,979 --> 00:21:28,459
But yeah, uh, I don't think
I know the backstory is m-
506
00:21:28,469 --> 00:21:28,879
Okay
507
00:21:28,879 --> 00:21:29,009
maybe
508
00:21:29,009 --> 00:21:29,089
not.
509
00:21:29,299 --> 00:21:36,050
So, so my friend and now roommate, we were
not at the time, uh, Vadi Yveladi, has
510
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:43,290
a dice tray that was in his apartment,
and I, I was over there and I saw it.
511
00:21:44,479 --> 00:21:50,550
It has a, an American flag and the
words husband, daddy, protector, hero
512
00:21:50,550 --> 00:21:53,169
in bold print- … uh, printed on it.
513
00:21:54,190 --> 00:21:56,170
It's truly a- Amazing.
514
00:21:56,180 --> 00:21:57,660
It's so strange.
515
00:21:58,060 --> 00:21:58,080
Yeah.
516
00:21:58,090 --> 00:22:01,150
Uh, and it was like a joke gift
that he had gotten, but I found it
517
00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:05,789
so funny, and I made a joke that it
was the only four things that you
518
00:22:05,789 --> 00:22:08,400
can be, uh, or something like that.
519
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,199
And then that, later that night, I was
high in my apartment and I was like,
520
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,979
"I'm gonna write this." And so when I
designed the game, I was just kind of
521
00:22:17,989 --> 00:22:20,349
putting ideas on a page and not- Yeah
522
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:20,910
thinking.
523
00:22:21,219 --> 00:22:26,190
And so PVP was one thing that wound up
on the page, and then later on when I
524
00:22:26,379 --> 00:22:31,549
looked back at it in the sober light of
day, I was like- … "Well, may-" It's
525
00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:32,209
not really, yeah, right
526
00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:38,019
… "
maybe it doesn't need to be PVP."
Um, and also I had to, I mean, I, I
527
00:22:38,019 --> 00:22:41,470
had to do some redesigning after we
played it for the first time- Sure
528
00:22:41,479 --> 00:22:42,139
on OneShot.
529
00:22:42,859 --> 00:22:46,720
So it is no longer pitched as
a PVP game, but it could be.
530
00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:49,029
But it is not necessarily.
531
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:49,370
Right.
532
00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:49,790
Right.
533
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,219
Uh, yeah.
534
00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:55,130
Especially because importantly,
Husband, Daddy, Protector,
535
00:22:55,130 --> 00:22:57,050
Hero is for any scenario.
536
00:22:57,289 --> 00:22:57,319
Yes.
537
00:22:57,329 --> 00:22:58,809
It is the D&D killer.
538
00:22:58,819 --> 00:23:02,202
It does- It, it can, it can be- Your
heartbreaker, right … anything.
539
00:23:02,202 --> 00:23:03,409
It's my heartbreaker.
540
00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:05,530
Um, so
541
00:23:05,709 --> 00:23:06,099
yeah.
542
00:23:06,689 --> 00:23:06,749
I love it.
543
00:23:06,749 --> 00:23:07,519
That's so funny.
544
00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:08,760
Um, yeah.
545
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,529
And uh, the other, the only other, the,
the other game of yours I was going
546
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:14,519
to bring up, just because, uh, again,
we were chatting about this a little
547
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,630
before we hit record, is, uh- Please
… Metalepsis, which- Yeah … like, that one
548
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:22,859
I think does have a pretty antagonistic
relationship between- Yes, certainly
549
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:26,859
uh, you know, the protagonist and then
the author, which is based on, and
550
00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:32,580
thank you, uh, again for just making
me go, "Oh, hell yeah, Coheed rips."
551
00:23:32,639 --> 00:23:36,314
And I just was at work, uh, I just put
on- Yeah … the whole, uh, I think
552
00:23:36,314 --> 00:23:39,849
I started with, uh, In Keeping the
Secrets, but still, uh, just absolutely.
553
00:23:39,859 --> 00:23:40,169
Yeah.
554
00:23:40,719 --> 00:23:41,029
Yeah.
555
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:41,049
Uh-
556
00:23:41,109 --> 00:23:43,409
Oh, i- it's, it, it's phenomenal.
557
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,769
They're, they're my favorite band.
558
00:23:44,769 --> 00:23:49,029
They have been my favorite band
since I was a, a young little bird,
559
00:23:49,069 --> 00:23:50,609
and, and- … will be forever.
560
00:23:50,929 --> 00:23:55,030
Um, I, let me see if I can easily show you
my first- Oh, do you have the- … tattoos
561
00:23:55,550 --> 00:23:55,820
…
the,
562
00:23:55,829 --> 00:23:59,709
yeah I have- The- … two
matching dragonflies, uh, on
563
00:23:59,709 --> 00:24:01,839
my- Hell yeah … collarbones.
564
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:02,440
And I- From
565
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:02,910
Second Stage?
566
00:24:02,910 --> 00:24:02,990
And I just- The Second Stage, uh, tattoo?
567
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:04,410
From Second Stage Turbine Blade.
568
00:24:04,410 --> 00:24:04,450
Hell yeah.
569
00:24:04,450 --> 00:24:04,860
Yeah.
570
00:24:05,139 --> 00:24:05,459
Mm-hmm.
571
00:24:05,869 --> 00:24:10,570
Um, and the reason that I have
that tattoo, the, specifically of
572
00:24:10,570 --> 00:24:14,119
them, is that that's kind of how I
found them when I was a teenager.
573
00:24:14,740 --> 00:24:17,539
I've told this story on other
podcasts before, but it's,
574
00:24:17,550 --> 00:24:18,830
I feel like you'll enjoy it.
575
00:24:19,329 --> 00:24:22,689
I was in high school, and
it was wintertime, and I
576
00:24:22,699 --> 00:24:26,400
had to swim in gym class.
577
00:24:26,729 --> 00:24:27,029
Okay.
578
00:24:27,714 --> 00:24:28,063
Yeah.
579
00:24:28,524 --> 00:24:33,024
Rare thing for me to participate
in at all, uh, because I used the I
580
00:24:33,024 --> 00:24:36,754
just got diagnosed with lupus card
a lot- Mm … uh, during that time.
581
00:24:36,764 --> 00:24:39,943
But I had run out of excuses,
and, uh, they were like,
582
00:24:39,953 --> 00:24:41,714
"Nope, get in the water." Yeah.
583
00:24:42,333 --> 00:24:47,624
Uh, so I got into the pool, and
then this kid that I went to school
584
00:24:47,624 --> 00:24:50,793
with, uh, who was nicknamed at
the time Bomb Threat Brian- Yeah
585
00:24:51,303 --> 00:24:55,364
uh, he… Yeah, he- he just whenever
he didn't wanna take a test or,
586
00:24:55,483 --> 00:24:58,543
or, or do a thing, if he was gonna
get in trouble or whatever, he
587
00:24:58,543 --> 00:24:59,963
just kinda called in a bomb threat.
588
00:25:00,003 --> 00:25:02,154
Uh, it would happen like
three or four times a year.
589
00:25:02,924 --> 00:25:09,883
And so he pulled his shenanigan while I
was still swimming, and, uh, so we had
590
00:25:09,883 --> 00:25:14,933
to get out of the pool, and I was in a
towel and a wet bathing suit, wet hair
591
00:25:14,944 --> 00:25:20,643
in the middle of the wintertime, standing
outside for a very long time while- Oh, no
592
00:25:20,764 --> 00:25:26,843
the, uh, fire department was, you know,
sweeping the school to make sure- Taking
593
00:25:26,843 --> 00:25:27,808
their sweet time … that it wasn't real.
594
00:25:27,808 --> 00:25:27,869
Yeah.
595
00:25:27,869 --> 00:25:28,113
Taking their sweet time.
596
00:25:28,113 --> 00:25:31,623
And so then when we were walking
back inside, I was so cold.
597
00:25:31,653 --> 00:25:36,783
I was freezing, and I just kind of ducked
into the lost and found, and I grabbed
598
00:25:36,793 --> 00:25:41,104
the first sweater that I saw, and I put
it on, and I wound up wearing it the rest
599
00:25:41,104 --> 00:25:42,713
of the day, and it had no words on it.
600
00:25:42,753 --> 00:25:45,543
It just had the green dragonfly.
601
00:25:46,274 --> 00:25:51,444
And, uh, later, someone in the hallway,
a, a friend went like, "Oh my God,
602
00:25:51,444 --> 00:25:54,504
I didn't know you were into Coheed
and Cambria." And I was like, "Yeah."
603
00:25:55,844 --> 00:25:56,064
Obviously, yeah.
604
00:25:56,064 --> 00:25:58,683
"
Of course I am," 'cause I
was a teenager, and I- Yeah,
605
00:25:58,683 --> 00:25:58,903
yeah, yeah
606
00:25:59,813 --> 00:26:00,913
…
couldn't disappoint.
607
00:26:01,603 --> 00:26:07,903
But then I, I went home that night, and
I got onto, uh, BearShare, and I- Mm
608
00:26:07,984 --> 00:26:15,703
uh, pirated the entire discography up
until that point and fell completely,
609
00:26:15,713 --> 00:26:16,343
irreversibly- Oh … irrationally in
610
00:26:19,153 --> 00:26:19,183
love.
611
00:26:19,514 --> 00:26:20,423
Love it.
612
00:26:20,444 --> 00:26:26,704
Um, yeah, found out that the concept
behind them not too long after that
613
00:26:27,353 --> 00:26:30,593
and bought, ate up all the comic books.
614
00:26:30,643 --> 00:26:37,113
Uh, I, it- it's, and it's been a lifelong,
lifelong- Yeah … uh, obsession of mine.
615
00:26:37,123 --> 00:26:38,793
It- it's, it's so good.
616
00:26:39,744 --> 00:26:43,054
I'm going off-script real quick, uh,
from- Great … from our little outline.
617
00:26:43,223 --> 00:26:45,053
This is… Everybody,
this is very scripted.
618
00:26:45,113 --> 00:26:47,455
Everybody who listens to me is like-
Yeah, it's very scripted … "This guy
619
00:26:47,455 --> 00:26:48,063
can really keep his thoughts straight."
620
00:26:48,063 --> 00:26:48,203
Yeah.
621
00:26:49,033 --> 00:26:52,963
Um, but I wanna bring this
back to TTRPGs really quick.
622
00:26:53,033 --> 00:26:54,353
I mean, obviously I'm also…
623
00:26:54,414 --> 00:26:57,633
The other prop that I had that I showed
you before we started recording is I
624
00:26:57,634 --> 00:27:02,674
recently found my first, uh, first volume
Second Stage Turbine Blade, uh, comic- Oh,
625
00:27:02,674 --> 00:27:03,153
God
626
00:27:03,233 --> 00:27:08,323
…
by, uh, by Claudio and, you know, uh,
based on the story that is the Coheed
627
00:27:08,323 --> 00:27:11,923
and Cambria discography- Yeah … uh,
which is this sweeping, like, space
628
00:27:11,923 --> 00:27:13,733
opera crazy, crazy, crazy story.
629
00:27:14,073 --> 00:27:14,243
Yes.
630
00:27:14,634 --> 00:27:19,294
But I've had, like, this tangential
question, uh, with a few people recently
631
00:27:19,304 --> 00:27:24,678
in my interviews- About conversations
that TTRPGs could be having, like
632
00:27:24,678 --> 00:27:27,358
with other mediums, other formats of-
633
00:27:27,358 --> 00:27:27,668
Yeah
634
00:27:27,698 --> 00:27:28,708
…
like entertainment.
635
00:27:28,718 --> 00:27:28,738
Yeah.
636
00:27:29,088 --> 00:27:32,928
And as somebody who was a touring
musician for almost 10 years, like
637
00:27:32,937 --> 00:27:35,597
that's still a big part of my life
that is like on my bucket list.
638
00:27:35,607 --> 00:27:36,118
My- I think-
639
00:27:36,128 --> 00:27:36,427
Mm-hmm
640
00:27:36,428 --> 00:27:38,828
…
you know, I've asked many designers
like, "What's your white whale?" I
641
00:27:38,828 --> 00:27:43,087
think mine is the TTRPG that by the
end of it you've like made a piece of
642
00:27:43,088 --> 00:27:46,077
music with your friends even if none
of you can play instruments, right?
643
00:27:46,307 --> 00:27:49,597
Like just download a piece of
software, play the games, dice
644
00:27:49,598 --> 00:27:51,767
your numbers, music is numbers.
645
00:27:51,947 --> 00:27:54,925
Just plug these numbers in- Ooh, very
interesting … the way Italian do.
646
00:27:54,925 --> 00:27:55,104
Yeah.
647
00:27:55,104 --> 00:27:56,178
And then make a melody, right?
648
00:27:56,178 --> 00:27:56,647
Working on it.
649
00:27:56,678 --> 00:27:58,468
It's like not there.
650
00:27:58,518 --> 00:27:58,778
No,
651
00:27:58,858 --> 00:27:59,657
that's a great idea.
652
00:27:59,658 --> 00:27:59,767
Working on it.
653
00:27:59,968 --> 00:28:00,278
Yeah.
654
00:28:00,278 --> 00:28:05,077
Um, but like I think that music and
TTRPGs, obviously, you know, I sh- this
655
00:28:05,077 --> 00:28:09,287
is a great chance to bring up, uh, your
Ennie-nominated Last Train to Bremen-
656
00:28:09,678 --> 00:28:11,807
uh, series that came out recently.
657
00:28:12,288 --> 00:28:16,558
By all means gush about that as well,
but I think that, you know, do you
658
00:28:16,567 --> 00:28:22,297
have any thoughts about like music or
graphic novels or, you know, concept
659
00:28:22,307 --> 00:28:26,037
albums and things like that playing
into the TTRPG space, like where those
660
00:28:26,047 --> 00:28:29,287
might be able to have conversation
where people might not think they-
661
00:28:29,297 --> 00:28:29,757
Yeah
662
00:28:29,817 --> 00:28:30,537
they have yet?
663
00:28:31,630 --> 00:28:32,090
Yeah.
664
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:38,120
I, I think the thing is, is that it's,
you know, we have so many niche areas.
665
00:28:38,170 --> 00:28:38,250
Mm.
666
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:41,790
So there are people thinking about this.
667
00:28:41,809 --> 00:28:42,120
You know?
668
00:28:42,130 --> 00:28:42,150
Mm-hmm.
669
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,250
There are people thinking about
this and trying to make it happen
670
00:28:45,260 --> 00:28:48,210
i- in, in various different ways.
671
00:28:48,249 --> 00:28:50,790
Um, and then in some
ways very successfully.
672
00:28:50,790 --> 00:28:53,747
I mean, Die RPG is, is, is the
marriage of- The graphic novel, right
673
00:28:53,747 --> 00:28:56,400
the comic, uh, graphic
novel and, and TTRPG.
674
00:28:56,410 --> 00:28:56,430
Yeah.
675
00:28:56,430 --> 00:29:00,019
And that, that is u- undeniably-
TJ … uh, successful.
676
00:29:00,030 --> 00:29:00,060
Yes.
677
00:29:00,069 --> 00:29:01,830
That, that, that has worked, for sure.
678
00:29:01,899 --> 00:29:02,119
Yes.
679
00:29:02,499 --> 00:29:08,949
And, and, but I do think that, you
know, we've had, we've had a lot of
680
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,040
conversations, and there are a lot of
people trying to do different things.
681
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,520
I mean, w- I think about the marriage
of, you know, music and games.
682
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,319
I, I have to think about the
musician Behold, for sure-
683
00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:25,419
Mm-hmm … who does so much.
684
00:29:25,829 --> 00:29:30,789
Not just… I mean, Behold does make music
that can be like your kind of atmospheric,
685
00:29:30,819 --> 00:29:33,519
generic music for your tabletop games
and stuff- Right … and make- The
686
00:29:33,519 --> 00:29:34,100
background stuff
687
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:35,149
…
makes music like that.
688
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,239
But also does a lot of music that
is, like, specifically tailored to
689
00:29:39,299 --> 00:29:41,329
very specific games and, like- Mm-hmm
690
00:29:41,339 --> 00:29:47,770
is made for those games and their energies
and their theming and stuff like that.
691
00:29:47,780 --> 00:29:51,619
So I think that's someone who
definitely thinks about that in a way.
692
00:29:51,649 --> 00:29:56,910
I also think that I have to talk about,
you know, we did this, we did something
693
00:29:56,910 --> 00:30:01,989
like this for, um, for One Shot,
for my two-year anniversary special.
694
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:05,339
Tales Yet Told does this- Mm-hmm
695
00:30:05,339 --> 00:30:09,860
for Voices in the Wood, which is
my favorite show of theirs, and
696
00:30:09,869 --> 00:30:15,350
it's all based around this RPG
called Void 1680 AM, which is a-
697
00:30:15,369 --> 00:30:15,909
Oh, yeah
698
00:30:15,979 --> 00:30:19,399
…
tabletop role-playing game
where you build a playlist.
699
00:30:19,409 --> 00:30:23,079
You are, you are hosting a radio
show, and you build a playlist.
700
00:30:23,499 --> 00:30:28,880
So while it's not creating original
music, it is building- Curating
701
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,220
a soundtrack, uh- Yeah … to
tell a story and, and, and
702
00:30:33,229 --> 00:30:35,239
forming your story around that.
703
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:39,319
There's also the, The Wanderer,
which is the solo version of
704
00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:40,879
Orbital Blues, does the same thing.
705
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,880
They're… You're, you're building a
playlist as part of the play of that game.
706
00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:50,679
I also, if we're gonna talk about
Last Train to Bremen, which we did
707
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:56,180
on One Shot as an improvised musical,
um, which I will admit, not my forte.
708
00:30:56,180 --> 00:31:00,460
I did that as a, as an experiment
and, and, and as a long shot for
709
00:31:00,460 --> 00:31:02,629
me, and I'm so glad it went so well.
710
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:03,939
It was so beautiful.
711
00:31:04,579 --> 00:31:09,569
But Helix, who is the… One of the
people I did this with, who is the GM
712
00:31:09,579 --> 00:31:15,030
for a musical improv actual play called
RPG Major, does this all the time.
713
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:22,860
Uh, he actually has some great ideas about
how to make that experience of, like,
714
00:31:22,869 --> 00:31:30,436
improvising songs more, a- accessible
to To people who aren't familiar- Yeah
715
00:31:30,436 --> 00:31:31,146
with split copping.
716
00:31:31,146 --> 00:31:31,275
Ready
717
00:31:31,555 --> 00:31:31,916
to just, yeah.
718
00:31:32,575 --> 00:31:32,906
Yeah.
719
00:31:32,906 --> 00:31:34,485
Ready to just jump in and make
stuff up on the spot, yeah.
720
00:31:34,525 --> 00:31:37,985
And I'm not gonna elaborate too much on
that because those are his thoughts, and
721
00:31:37,985 --> 00:31:42,355
I do hope- Mm-hmm … that he winds up
turning that into a, a, a game of his
722
00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:45,896
own or at least, like, an instructional
guide or something one day because I
723
00:31:45,905 --> 00:31:50,575
think, uh, I think his ideas that we
talked about are, are really good.
724
00:31:51,075 --> 00:31:55,686
But so, that, suffice to say, I think
that people are doing these things.
725
00:31:55,686 --> 00:31:57,015
They are talking about it.
726
00:31:57,025 --> 00:32:01,846
Mm. They are trying it, and I'm definitely
part, uh, you know, definitely part of
727
00:32:01,846 --> 00:32:03,646
that community that is trying things.
728
00:32:04,066 --> 00:32:06,715
Nothing quite like what you're
describing where you're, like,
729
00:32:06,755 --> 00:32:09,045
making a song via mechanics.
730
00:32:09,445 --> 00:32:13,505
Mm. But definitely incorporating
the marriage- Oh, yeah … of
731
00:32:13,545 --> 00:32:16,606
music and RPGs together.
732
00:32:16,696 --> 00:32:20,755
That's, that's for sure happening
in a, in a big way in a lotta
733
00:32:20,755 --> 00:32:24,315
different conversations and,
and art pieces all around.
734
00:32:24,755 --> 00:32:25,135
Yeah.
735
00:32:25,145 --> 00:32:27,795
I remember… I, I wish I could
remember the name of the podcast.
736
00:32:27,855 --> 00:32:31,186
If I can remember, I will link it
in the description, uh, after this.
737
00:32:31,206 --> 00:32:37,075
But years ago now, maybe eight or so years
ago, I remember finding a podcast that
738
00:32:37,075 --> 00:32:42,335
was, like, it was a band playing together,
and every episode they were all, like,
739
00:32:42,365 --> 00:32:45,935
music majors as well, and basically, like,
they had, like, their own, like, wheel
740
00:32:45,956 --> 00:32:50,525
where, like, they had to, like, resolve
things by writing a short little melody,
741
00:32:50,525 --> 00:32:53,545
like, in a certain key or something
like that, like, as part of their thing.
742
00:32:53,835 --> 00:32:55,265
And it's just… You know, I don't know.
743
00:32:55,286 --> 00:32:58,076
I just think We talk
about this all the time.
744
00:32:58,116 --> 00:32:59,986
We're an incredibly niche hobby.
745
00:33:00,356 --> 00:33:01,586
We're like a niche-
Yeah … within a niche.
746
00:33:01,856 --> 00:33:02,196
Uh, and it's like I'm- And
747
00:33:02,196 --> 00:33:03,026
then there are niches in-
748
00:33:03,206 --> 00:33:04,216
I'm just gonna go deeper, you know?
749
00:33:04,356 --> 00:33:04,446
Like- Yeah,
750
00:33:04,546 --> 00:33:05,136
all the way down
751
00:33:05,536 --> 00:33:05,756
…
but,
752
00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:06,936
um- Yeah, all the way down.
753
00:33:06,936 --> 00:33:07,546
Yeah, yeah.
754
00:33:07,596 --> 00:33:07,776
Mm-hmm.
755
00:33:07,786 --> 00:33:10,456
Uh, but honestly, sometimes those
are like my favorite holes, 'cause
756
00:33:10,456 --> 00:33:11,486
it's like, wow, you have done- Yeah,
757
00:33:11,576 --> 00:33:11,896
me too … so
758
00:33:11,896 --> 00:33:12,535
much, you know?
759
00:33:12,716 --> 00:33:13,145
It's the, uh-
760
00:33:13,156 --> 00:33:13,665
Oh, yeah
761
00:33:14,086 --> 00:33:18,365
…
it's the same kind of, um, thought as
like my brother-in-law blew my mind
762
00:33:18,365 --> 00:33:20,996
when he said this, like, where it's like
if you think of like education, right?
763
00:33:20,996 --> 00:33:24,215
Like, everybody ha- shares the s- like,
not everybody, but like everybody who
764
00:33:24,215 --> 00:33:27,015
graduates high school should s- share
the same circle, and then everyone
765
00:33:27,016 --> 00:33:30,355
who graduates, like, college should
share, like, a slightly larger circle,
766
00:33:30,355 --> 00:33:33,655
and then everyone who gets a master's,
slightly larger circle, which is
767
00:33:33,655 --> 00:33:37,215
usually like the outside of the circle,
and then PhDs are like poking out of
768
00:33:37,225 --> 00:33:38,126
the ed- like, you know what I mean?
769
00:33:38,355 --> 00:33:39,115
'Cause they're just like so
770
00:33:39,415 --> 00:33:40,588
deep- Right … in one very specific-
As the more niche you go- Yeah,
771
00:33:40,588 --> 00:33:43,226
right … the more down the rabbit
hole you go- Um … the smaller
772
00:33:43,236 --> 00:33:46,565
your, your, your camaraderie gets.
773
00:33:46,585 --> 00:33:48,039
But your- Focus, but also, yeah.
774
00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:49,145
But the… Yeah, yeah.
775
00:33:49,225 --> 00:33:49,415
Mm-hmm.
776
00:33:49,415 --> 00:33:49,425
Yeah,
777
00:33:49,425 --> 00:33:49,785
yeah.
778
00:33:49,846 --> 00:33:52,975
Uh, and I, I want the TTRPG version of
that, which is just somebody being like,
779
00:33:53,015 --> 00:33:56,235
"I was in, I, I was way too deep in this."
780
00:33:56,285 --> 00:33:56,965
Uh, like-
781
00:33:56,965 --> 00:33:57,395
Yeah.
782
00:33:58,486 --> 00:33:58,595
Mm-hmm.
783
00:33:58,605 --> 00:34:03,365
Um, well, on a far other side of
the spectrum, I, I wanna go back to
784
00:34:03,366 --> 00:34:04,625
talking about some of your games.
785
00:34:04,945 --> 00:34:08,425
Uh, a bunch- Okay … of your games, a
bunch of your games sh- share another
786
00:34:08,425 --> 00:34:13,195
theme, which is they're very openly in,
in discourse with, uh, sexuality and
787
00:34:13,205 --> 00:34:15,305
being romantic and about connections.
788
00:34:15,625 --> 00:34:16,055
Um- Yeah
789
00:34:16,055 --> 00:34:18,916
which is something that I've
complained about on my podcast a lot.
790
00:34:19,086 --> 00:34:21,405
Uh, obviously I'm a
solo actual play person.
791
00:34:21,555 --> 00:34:23,715
So I'm not like- Yeah … rearing to
be like, "Hey, everybody listening to
792
00:34:23,715 --> 00:34:28,195
me play The One Ring right now. Are you
ready for my steamy, ste- steamy, like-
793
00:34:28,195 --> 00:34:31,985
Yeah, yeah … self on self romance?"
But in my home games, in like, in tables
794
00:34:31,985 --> 00:34:36,845
and stuff like that, I always talk about
how, I mean, if it's romance, right?
795
00:34:37,406 --> 00:34:40,665
There's not a TV show you can watch, a
movie you can watch whatever, that doesn't
796
00:34:40,665 --> 00:34:43,795
have some kind of romance subplot just for
the people who want that kind of thing.
797
00:34:44,495 --> 00:34:47,926
And for- Sure … some reason at TTRPG
tables, I feel like it's usually something
798
00:34:47,926 --> 00:34:50,355
that people are like, "Let's just avoid
this," 'cause like, I'm just coming to
799
00:34:50,375 --> 00:34:52,166
do whatever, like stomp goblins, right?
800
00:34:53,015 --> 00:34:53,415
Sure.
801
00:34:53,905 --> 00:34:56,826
And I get that some friend groups
don't wanna flirt with one another.
802
00:34:56,936 --> 00:35:00,216
Uh, they're wrong, but regardless, um,
803
00:35:00,506 --> 00:35:00,756
Yeah
804
00:35:00,955 --> 00:35:05,935
…
what, what is it that you like
about exploring sex in your games
805
00:35:05,955 --> 00:35:07,195
or putting it at the forefront?
806
00:35:07,196 --> 00:35:07,676
Yeah.
807
00:35:08,235 --> 00:35:08,925
Yeah.
808
00:35:09,226 --> 00:35:16,894
Well, I like it for so many reasons,
and, and I… So one is that We have,
809
00:35:17,394 --> 00:35:22,604
uh, tabletop games, actual play, uh, the
two of these things, they, they are just
810
00:35:22,604 --> 00:35:25,274
another art form with which to explore-
811
00:35:25,674 --> 00:35:26,014
Mm-hmm
812
00:35:26,413 --> 00:35:30,534
all of the many colors of
humanity's experiences.
813
00:35:31,044 --> 00:35:38,373
Uh, so I find it interesting when
anyone kinda wants to cut any human
814
00:35:38,373 --> 00:35:40,633
experience out of those things.
815
00:35:40,654 --> 00:35:47,113
I especially find it suspicious when
the one thing we wanna cut out is
816
00:35:47,163 --> 00:35:54,563
also the thing that is most correlated
with, like, a, a growing force of
817
00:35:54,563 --> 00:35:56,563
fascism, which is, you know- Oh
818
00:35:56,563 --> 00:36:03,534
if you, if, if we, if, when we see,
like, a puritanical view on sex and
819
00:36:03,534 --> 00:36:10,082
sex being kind of like Pushed into
the margins or hidden or, like-
820
00:36:10,542 --> 00:36:10,812
Taboo
821
00:36:10,812 --> 00:36:12,692
or, yeah … restricted
in any number of ways.
822
00:36:12,962 --> 00:36:19,131
Like, tho- that has never correlated
with a healthy and- … free society.
823
00:36:19,132 --> 00:36:23,542
It- Right … always correlates with
the- Right … darkest of human times.
824
00:36:23,542 --> 00:36:23,722
Yeah.
825
00:36:23,732 --> 00:36:25,552
Um- You're doing human connection wrong.
826
00:36:25,562 --> 00:36:26,251
How dare you do human connection
827
00:36:26,251 --> 00:36:26,281
wrong?
828
00:36:26,281 --> 00:36:26,791
Yeah.
829
00:36:26,791 --> 00:36:29,882
So I, exact- so I, so
I find that suspicious.
830
00:36:29,921 --> 00:36:32,922
Uh, there's a- Yeah … really great, but
there's a really interesting thing that
831
00:36:32,922 --> 00:36:37,721
happens, and I find it happens in all
media, but it definitely happens a lot in
832
00:36:37,722 --> 00:36:43,211
the design of games, when you look at RPG
books, uh, especially some of the bigger
833
00:36:43,211 --> 00:36:48,031
ones, uh, and then when you watch actual
plays, especially many of the bigger ones.
834
00:36:48,341 --> 00:36:55,582
Um, there is a, there is a, uh, theory
that applies to mainstream movies, um,
835
00:36:55,632 --> 00:37:00,411
that I think applies here, which is the
everyone is beautiful, no one is horny.
836
00:37:01,402 --> 00:37:06,621
And so it's, like, this very strange
thing where you will open an RPG book
837
00:37:06,641 --> 00:37:11,741
and you will see a, like, tiefling
woman with massive- Yeah … knockers,
838
00:37:11,771 --> 00:37:14,952
and she's wearing, like- So sexualized.
839
00:37:14,952 --> 00:37:18,121
And she's like a, she's so, she's
so beautiful, but, like, the
840
00:37:18,121 --> 00:37:20,652
game- Yeah … has nothing in it-
841
00:37:20,661 --> 00:37:20,681
Yeah
842
00:37:21,071 --> 00:37:21,361
…
that-
843
00:37:21,361 --> 00:37:21,621
Right
844
00:37:21,992 --> 00:37:27,242
…
discusses, talks about, approaches- Right
… uh, sex in any- Yeah … kind of way.
845
00:37:27,521 --> 00:37:29,552
But, like, every, but
everybody's beautiful.
846
00:37:29,552 --> 00:37:34,192
Or you'll wa- you'll watch- Mm-hmm … a,
you know, a, an actual play and,
847
00:37:34,192 --> 00:37:38,721
like, everybody will describe their
characters as being so hot, so beautiful.
848
00:37:39,551 --> 00:37:42,511
And n- and, like, and, like, that's,
like, a, a thing you'll hear a lot.
849
00:37:42,521 --> 00:37:46,171
But then nobody is n- nobody's
going and e- engaging- Yeah … with
850
00:37:46,172 --> 00:37:48,051
that, and I find it interesting.
851
00:37:48,452 --> 00:37:50,341
I'm very hot- I don't- … but
I'm also unfuckable.
852
00:37:50,382 --> 00:37:50,892
That's just a rule.
853
00:37:50,902 --> 00:37:51,702
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
854
00:37:51,982 --> 00:37:52,072
That's just me.
855
00:37:52,072 --> 00:37:54,211
It's a, it's a strange,
it's a strange thing.
856
00:37:54,221 --> 00:37:57,641
The, the, the root of it, the
hunger for each other- Yeah
857
00:37:57,651 --> 00:37:58,211
is missing.
858
00:37:58,231 --> 00:37:58,331
Right.
859
00:37:58,361 --> 00:37:59,682
And st- and-
860
00:37:59,682 --> 00:38:00,821
Why put the wall up there?
861
00:38:00,861 --> 00:38:02,471
If you're gonna describe- Why
put the- … yourself, right?
862
00:38:02,761 --> 00:38:02,951
Yeah.
863
00:38:02,952 --> 00:38:03,472
Right.
864
00:38:03,492 --> 00:38:04,701
So I find it interesting.
865
00:38:04,721 --> 00:38:10,661
I also have a very personal kind of
vendetta for this because I lived my
866
00:38:10,661 --> 00:38:13,481
life as a sex worker for, for many years.
867
00:38:14,402 --> 00:38:19,681
And so for that reason, I do also
find sex to be just, like, a, a
868
00:38:19,682 --> 00:38:27,953
really interesting and essential
part of our, of our- society, our-
869
00:38:28,584 --> 00:38:28,784
Mm-hmm
870
00:38:28,824 --> 00:38:30,413
uh, place as humans.
871
00:38:31,624 --> 00:38:35,254
And then on a, on a really, really
basic note, it's just another human
872
00:38:35,254 --> 00:38:38,864
experience, and these games are about
playing with human experiences and
873
00:38:38,864 --> 00:38:40,354
relationships and things like that.
874
00:38:40,904 --> 00:38:40,924
Yeah.
875
00:38:40,973 --> 00:38:47,263
So I have, you know, I have a game,
Hunt or Hunted, we talked about before-
876
00:38:47,274 --> 00:38:51,044
Mm … which is definitely not an
explicitly, uh, romantic or sexual game.
877
00:38:51,443 --> 00:38:56,673
However- Oh, yeah … it is a game about
tension between two people in a chase,
878
00:38:56,693 --> 00:39:02,383
and so I feel like it was an intentional
design choice between Megan and I early
879
00:39:02,384 --> 00:39:08,244
on that we were not gonna stray from
letting, like, this game feel like that.
880
00:39:08,244 --> 00:39:11,593
We wanted people to be able to interpret
it that way, and many people did.
881
00:39:11,594 --> 00:39:11,924
Yeah.
882
00:39:12,583 --> 00:39:12,803
That's awesome.
883
00:39:12,813 --> 00:39:13,243
Um-
884
00:39:13,263 --> 00:39:13,573
I,
885
00:39:14,293 --> 00:39:14,773
yeah.
886
00:39:14,773 --> 00:39:14,883
Yeah.
887
00:39:14,883 --> 00:39:18,333
So, like, I, I've definitely talked
to a bunch of people who, who their
888
00:39:18,344 --> 00:39:23,573
game, they were surprised ended in a,
in a romance or in a kiss- Mm … or
889
00:39:23,574 --> 00:39:25,403
in a embrace or what- whatever.
890
00:39:26,446 --> 00:39:30,346
But I do have a game coming out
that I think by this time that this
891
00:39:30,346 --> 00:39:32,935
is out, I think will be out- Yeah
892
00:39:32,946 --> 00:39:38,625
called All's Faire, which is an explicitly
sexual game that is a erotic role playing
893
00:39:38,636 --> 00:39:43,415
game for two people about wanting to
save each other so bad that you save
894
00:39:43,456 --> 00:39:46,965
the, want, wanting to fuck each other
so bad that you save the world about it.
895
00:39:46,966 --> 00:39:47,356
Sorry.
896
00:39:47,895 --> 00:39:48,625
No, it's all good.
897
00:39:48,725 --> 00:39:50,505
I, I love the original title, too.
898
00:39:51,085 --> 00:39:51,505
Yes.
899
00:39:51,776 --> 00:39:53,145
I do that sometimes.
900
00:39:53,145 --> 00:39:56,676
The, you brought up- Yeah … Metalepsis
earlier, and the original title to that
901
00:39:56,696 --> 00:39:58,696
is, How Does That Work, You're a Bicycle.
902
00:39:58,705 --> 00:39:58,746
You're a
903
00:39:58,746 --> 00:39:59,135
Bicycle.
904
00:39:59,786 --> 00:40:04,495
Uh, and, and, and then I, I named
it, uh- Yeah … something more-
905
00:40:04,495 --> 00:40:05,615
Something more- … palatable.
906
00:40:05,615 --> 00:40:05,675
Yeah.
907
00:40:06,426 --> 00:40:07,486
Right Easier to say.
908
00:40:08,095 --> 00:40:11,945
Thi- this game, All's Faire, was
originally called Nasha Barrage, uh, Saves
909
00:40:11,966 --> 00:40:15,836
the World by Wanting to Fuck Her Pathetic
Boyfriend Crazy Style and You Can Too.
910
00:40:16,435 --> 00:40:21,226
And, and it's just so hard to
put that on a cover, you know?
911
00:40:21,266 --> 00:40:21,386
Sure.
912
00:40:21,395 --> 00:40:21,755
Yeah, yeah,
913
00:40:21,755 --> 00:40:22,025
yeah.
914
00:40:22,035 --> 00:40:22,045
Uh,
915
00:40:22,356 --> 00:40:22,875
so
916
00:40:23,335 --> 00:40:24,715
Strict- strictly for the
layout artist, right?
917
00:40:24,716 --> 00:40:27,095
Where you're just like, "Uh, can you
fit all of this?" Strict- And, you know
918
00:40:27,095 --> 00:40:28,205
…
strictly for that.
919
00:40:28,225 --> 00:40:28,695
Exactly.
920
00:40:28,695 --> 00:40:29,085
Yeah.
921
00:40:29,685 --> 00:40:33,485
So yeah, you, you do a l- you do
a lot for marketing, you know?
922
00:40:33,545 --> 00:40:33,965
Right.
923
00:40:33,965 --> 00:40:34,245
Right.
924
00:40:34,325 --> 00:40:36,985
No, but that's, I, you know, I, I wanted
to talk to you about that because it's
925
00:40:36,986 --> 00:40:40,166
just, it is, it is something that you
wanna talk with anybody you're playing
926
00:40:40,166 --> 00:40:41,855
games with, safety tools, all this stuff.
927
00:40:41,855 --> 00:40:45,176
But again, like a lot of the times
you wanna play this game to put
928
00:40:45,176 --> 00:40:46,275
yourself in different shoes, right?
929
00:40:46,276 --> 00:40:48,125
And put yourself in other experiences.
930
00:40:48,166 --> 00:40:52,735
Uh, and like you can't just
ignore human connection.
931
00:40:52,736 --> 00:40:54,895
And I love the everyone's
beautiful, no one's horny.
932
00:40:54,895 --> 00:40:56,465
Like it's so funny, you're
right, where it's like-
933
00:40:56,465 --> 00:40:56,795
Yeah
934
00:40:57,465 --> 00:41:02,226
…
it's, it's silly to be like, "I am in
the most peak physical shape," you know?
935
00:41:02,226 --> 00:41:04,175
Like somebody describes themself like
that- Right … and it's just like-
936
00:41:04,375 --> 00:41:04,516
Yeah
937
00:41:04,516 --> 00:41:04,596
you
938
00:41:04,596 --> 00:41:06,625
know, oh great, someone's
going to jump on you.
939
00:41:06,625 --> 00:41:07,315
And it's just like, oh-
940
00:41:07,346 --> 00:41:08,265
Yeah, yeah, yeah … well, hmm.
941
00:41:08,505 --> 00:41:08,705
Yeah.
942
00:41:09,355 --> 00:41:10,175
Yeah, exactly.
943
00:41:11,005 --> 00:41:16,045
Uh, well, uh, that's, I mean, I'm just a
big fan and, uh, I have a game that I've
944
00:41:16,045 --> 00:41:19,816
been designing with my friend about, I'm
not calling it a post-apocalyptic game,
945
00:41:19,955 --> 00:41:21,546
I'm calling it a post-catastrophe game.
946
00:41:21,946 --> 00:41:25,145
Um- Great … we're, we're basically,
uh, like say we're on the middle of this
947
00:41:25,145 --> 00:41:26,955
call and the power goes out right now.
948
00:41:27,395 --> 00:41:27,725
Okay.
949
00:41:27,766 --> 00:41:31,326
We would both be like, I'd, you know, I'd
grab my phone and I'd email you and I'd be
950
00:41:31,326 --> 00:41:33,045
like, "Oh, that sucks," and, uh, whatever.
951
00:41:33,255 --> 00:41:37,500
But like what if- The power did not
come back like we all expect it to.
952
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,350
What if the whole eastern grid
went down- Yeah … and it
953
00:41:40,350 --> 00:41:41,490
didn't come back for six months?
954
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,799
Like, we don't have to talk
about what happens in the first
955
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:47,630
six months of that 'cause I'm
probably dead you know what I mean?
956
00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:50,600
Like, a lot of people are dead, um-
Right … from terrible, terrible things.
957
00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:54,810
But, uh, basically it picks up,
you've survived and you're, uh,
958
00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:58,539
you're part of a small community that
is surviving, learning to live in
959
00:41:58,540 --> 00:42:03,350
a post-electricity world, survival
skills, you know, community building.
960
00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:03,379
Yeah.
961
00:42:03,390 --> 00:42:04,529
Like, where do you restart over?
962
00:42:04,529 --> 00:42:05,430
What are your priorities?
963
00:42:05,659 --> 00:42:08,920
But, like, one of the things that, like,
me and my friend decided we cannot not
964
00:42:08,970 --> 00:42:13,060
talk about is human connection, romance.
965
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:13,370
Yeah.
966
00:42:13,370 --> 00:42:15,670
Not even romance, just, uh, sex.
967
00:42:15,979 --> 00:42:19,249
Uh, you know, if- Right … trigger
warning- Just physicality … for
968
00:42:19,249 --> 00:42:19,369
anyone listening.
969
00:42:19,369 --> 00:42:19,389
SA.
970
00:42:19,389 --> 00:42:19,579
Yeah.
971
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:20,570
You know, like, you know- Yeah
972
00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:23,269
like, terrible things are gonna happen,
and I don't think that you should
973
00:42:23,279 --> 00:42:26,869
dive into that in it, but, like, it
would be something that might be-
974
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:27,469
Or you can
975
00:42:27,479 --> 00:42:28,159
…
parallel to a c-
976
00:42:28,170 --> 00:42:28,310
Or
977
00:42:28,310 --> 00:42:28,909
you, or you can
978
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:31,759
Yeah, or you can if it's something
that you- Because those are… Yeah.
979
00:42:31,759 --> 00:42:31,830
Those are- Yeah.
980
00:42:31,830 --> 00:42:33,790
Um- If people are okay with
exploring those topics, yeah.
981
00:42:34,009 --> 00:42:34,309
Yeah.
982
00:42:34,499 --> 00:42:35,370
Um- Yeah … but, like, it's, it's
a thing where, like- Those are
983
00:42:35,370 --> 00:42:36,439
all part of our experiences
984
00:42:37,330 --> 00:42:40,339
…
in, in a game like that, I feel like it
was something that we, we talked a lot
985
00:42:40,350 --> 00:42:45,459
about, being like, we need to encourage
people actually to explore these-
986
00:42:45,460 --> 00:42:46,960
Yeah … as opposed to ignore these.
987
00:42:47,219 --> 00:42:47,629
Um-
988
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:47,950
Yeah
989
00:42:47,969 --> 00:42:50,139
…
because otherwise, like, you're going…
990
00:42:50,179 --> 00:42:52,319
You, you… These people
would be crazy if they didn't.
991
00:42:52,469 --> 00:42:52,879
Do you know what I mean?
992
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,139
Like they- Yeah … would
be absolutely nuts.
993
00:42:54,609 --> 00:42:54,960
Um, so.
994
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:55,340
Yeah.
995
00:42:55,579 --> 00:42:56,319
Absolutely.
996
00:42:56,990 --> 00:42:58,119
Yeah, I completely agree.
997
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:02,640
I, I don't know if you've watched and/or
read it, but if you are looking for any
998
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,020
kind inspiration for that, which I, I,
I really hope you make, I'd be thrilled
999
00:43:07,020 --> 00:43:12,119
to see it, I, I think something in a
more traditional media that explores
1000
00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:14,230
that really well is Station Eleven.
1001
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:15,974
Uh- Oh, I love it … they
1002
00:43:15,974 --> 00:43:17,849
do- I lo- it was a five-star
read for me, for sure.
1003
00:43:17,850 --> 00:43:19,359
Five- It's so good
… five-star read for you.
1004
00:43:19,409 --> 00:43:20,169
Okay, good.
1005
00:43:20,179 --> 00:43:21,549
So you're there already.
1006
00:43:21,549 --> 00:43:21,560
Yeah.
1007
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:21,790
Yeah.
1008
00:43:21,790 --> 00:43:24,989
I was just gonna say- Yep … when
you talked about the jump forward
1009
00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:28,779
and- Mm-hmm … like, skipping past
the… Like, 'cause they do that.
1010
00:43:28,780 --> 00:43:30,029
They, like, explore the- Yes
1011
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:31,830
the first days and then the
1012
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:33,410
Way later,
1013
00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:34,310
yeah … the after days.
1014
00:43:34,340 --> 00:43:34,750
Yeah.
1015
00:43:34,810 --> 00:43:35,150
Uh-huh.
1016
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:36,480
That is, that is the goal, right?
1017
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:36,533
Mm-hmm.
1018
00:43:36,533 --> 00:43:39,540
It's like I, you know- Yeah … i- in
it we're like… Y- and there's, there's
1019
00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:42,790
mechanics to be like, "Oh, you've,
like, you've done a certain role, like,
1020
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:46,720
w- you get to bank a flashback to,
like, the early days or before," right?
1021
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:47,790
Like, that's all you can talk about.
1022
00:43:47,790 --> 00:43:48,780
Like, we don't talk about, like-
1023
00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:49,379
Yeah
1024
00:43:49,379 --> 00:43:49,524
…
month,
1025
00:43:49,524 --> 00:43:50,060
like- Yeah
1026
00:43:50,119 --> 00:43:51,839
…
week two, week two to start a game.
1027
00:43:51,869 --> 00:43:53,029
Oh, you're brilliant.
1028
00:43:53,070 --> 00:43:56,520
Oh, you gotta- Yeah … keep me updated
on this because- … I've, I've-
1029
00:43:56,529 --> 00:43:56,799
Anyway
1030
00:43:57,539 --> 00:43:57,849
…
love.
1031
00:43:58,090 --> 00:43:58,320
Yeah.
1032
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,299
It's just something that, uh…
It's, it's something that I,
1033
00:44:00,340 --> 00:44:03,519
I really think is important in
games, and, and I like to hear it.
1034
00:44:03,609 --> 00:44:06,970
And speaking of many, many games
and all these things, as a dude
1035
00:44:06,970 --> 00:44:10,060
after my own heart,
Dillin, you get to play so
1036
00:44:10,060 --> 00:44:11,949
many games, and I'm trying my best.
1037
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:12,169
I do.
1038
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,239
I got a big shelf behind me.
1039
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:14,179
I'm trying my best.
1040
00:44:14,399 --> 00:44:18,930
You, you are like, "Let me put it on my
back and do this weekly." If anyone's
1041
00:44:18,930 --> 00:44:21,549
listening to this podcast, again,
that doesn't know about One Shot,
1042
00:44:22,389 --> 00:44:24,089
you're we- you are welcome, listener.
1043
00:44:25,469 --> 00:44:26,240
Go do that now.
1044
00:44:26,340 --> 00:44:29,880
How do you juggle, uh, the
constant changing of systems?
1045
00:44:29,989 --> 00:44:31,119
Like, do you have a super brain?
1046
00:44:31,549 --> 00:44:32,099
Is that… I
1047
00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:32,359
mean-
1048
00:44:32,359 --> 00:44:33,179
I do not … that'd be an easy answer.
1049
00:44:33,259 --> 00:44:33,889
I do not.
1050
00:44:33,899 --> 00:44:33,919
Yeah.
1051
00:44:33,930 --> 00:44:34,729
I definitely don't.
1052
00:44:35,020 --> 00:44:39,280
I… You know what's beautiful is
that I… Uh, the thing is, is that
1053
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:46,509
I play a lot of games that require
very little onboarding to, to run,
1054
00:44:47,049 --> 00:44:52,234
and that is, I think, something
that I, I hope is clear to the
1055
00:44:52,234 --> 00:44:53,944
people listening to the show- Mm-hmm
1056
00:44:53,953 --> 00:44:58,474
is that a lot of the games that I'm
running, a, a lot of them I, you
1057
00:44:58,474 --> 00:45:01,404
know, was able to learn that day.
1058
00:45:01,413 --> 00:45:02,343
Like, you know, like-
1059
00:45:02,344 --> 00:45:02,534
Yeah
1060
00:45:03,063 --> 00:45:06,983
…
it, there's a lot of games that are
just that easy to, to pick up and play.
1061
00:45:06,984 --> 00:45:10,813
Rom Com Drama Bomb is GM-less,
but of course I was there to-
1062
00:45:10,843 --> 00:45:13,814
Yeah … like help walk my guests
through it if they needed to.
1063
00:45:13,933 --> 00:45:17,743
But if you listen to it, they,
after the first, you know, act
1064
00:45:17,743 --> 00:45:19,473
is done- Yeah … nobody needs-
1065
00:45:19,493 --> 00:45:19,904
You get it
1066
00:45:19,983 --> 00:45:21,163
…
any of that from me.
1067
00:45:21,173 --> 00:45:24,514
It's, it, it, it, the game runs itself.
1068
00:45:25,763 --> 00:45:28,574
I, I played Perils and
Princesses, uh, recently.
1069
00:45:28,603 --> 00:45:31,384
Also a game- Uh-huh … that kind of
like is just- Love that game … once you
1070
00:45:31,403 --> 00:45:34,283
figure it out it's, it's, it's good to go.
1071
00:45:34,313 --> 00:45:38,884
I mean, really, like, and then I am very
lucky when I do bring a game like Force
1072
00:45:38,884 --> 00:45:42,224
of Extinction on, which is, I mean,
Force of Extinction is a bigger system.
1073
00:45:42,224 --> 00:45:44,193
It's meant to run campaigns, games.
1074
00:45:45,163 --> 00:45:45,304
Mm-hmm.
1075
00:45:45,304 --> 00:45:49,553
And also it's not fully out yet, so,
uh, the game designers were not gonna,
1076
00:45:49,603 --> 00:45:51,933
uh, expect me to be super- Let you, yeah
1077
00:45:51,933 --> 00:45:52,564
familiar with it.
1078
00:45:53,073 --> 00:45:58,683
So yes, I ha- I had the, the genuine,
uh, privilege of having one of the
1079
00:45:58,684 --> 00:46:00,373
designers run it for me, which is great.
1080
00:46:00,943 --> 00:46:05,013
But a lot of the games that I run, I mean,
like, I'm just looking at my list now.
1081
00:46:05,553 --> 00:46:10,233
I'm, I'm looking at my, my recent games
and everything, and it's like so many
1082
00:46:10,233 --> 00:46:13,383
of them were so easy to learn to play.
1083
00:46:13,964 --> 00:46:18,874
Um, Hinterlight, uh, we talked about,
we talked about… Oh, I gotta talk
1084
00:46:18,883 --> 00:46:23,223
about Hinterlight actually, because we
talked- Okay … about, um, World of
1085
00:46:23,223 --> 00:46:27,483
Darkness, and we talked about, like, kind
of some of the faults with those games.
1086
00:46:28,053 --> 00:46:33,003
Uh- Mm-hmm … my favorite one when I
was younger was Changeling: The Lost.
1087
00:46:33,043 --> 00:46:36,993
Um, and, and it still is the one
that I think back to the fondest
1088
00:46:37,004 --> 00:46:41,233
because I think of all of the pitches,
I think it's my favorite pitch.
1089
00:46:41,613 --> 00:46:44,264
Uh, the pitch is, for the
listeners, is that you- It
1090
00:46:44,264 --> 00:46:44,634
is
1091
00:46:44,634 --> 00:46:45,004
cool.
1092
00:46:45,004 --> 00:46:50,243
You, you as a human being were, you
either were stolen away to or got lost
1093
00:46:50,243 --> 00:46:54,463
in the Hedge, which is the land of the
fairies, the fae, and they kept you
1094
00:46:54,464 --> 00:46:58,013
there for some time, and it changed you.
1095
00:46:58,023 --> 00:46:59,634
You ate the fruit, so to speak.
1096
00:46:59,634 --> 00:47:01,774
You, you are not-
Mm … you are not the same.
1097
00:47:02,023 --> 00:47:06,014
You've escaped, and you are back in
the world, but you are different.
1098
00:47:06,033 --> 00:47:07,534
You are somewhat different.
1099
00:47:07,544 --> 00:47:12,833
You have bits of fae in you
now, and the fae want you back.
1100
00:47:12,863 --> 00:47:15,163
They do not like that you have escaped.
1101
00:47:15,593 --> 00:47:17,874
Um, and so that is kind
of the pitch of this game.
1102
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:22,240
And I think that the pitch is so
strong, and I don't know that the
1103
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:27,840
game really is, is that mechanically
driven towards telling that story.
1104
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,560
It is just sort of like a, a skill
check game- Mm-hmm … more or less.
1105
00:47:32,580 --> 00:47:32,750
Yeah.
1106
00:47:32,750 --> 00:47:36,910
So when I heard about Hinterlight,
which is a game that is about exactly
1107
00:47:36,910 --> 00:47:40,569
that, it is about people who've been
stolen into the hedge essentially,
1108
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:47,189
and are wandering through it trying to
look for a way out, and on this kind
1109
00:47:47,189 --> 00:47:51,150
of failed journey, reflect on all of
the things that have changed them.
1110
00:47:51,499 --> 00:47:59,050
So it's got a very similar pitch, a
very similar vibe, but everything about
1111
00:47:59,050 --> 00:48:05,710
this game is specifically tailored
to make that pitch land, to make
1112
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:10,450
that- Yeah … story happen for you
and your group, and it is GM-less.
1113
00:48:10,450 --> 00:48:12,279
You just, it just happens.
1114
00:48:12,289 --> 00:48:15,719
You don't need someone
telling you it's gonna happen.
1115
00:48:15,729 --> 00:48:20,879
It just, you and your friends will just
sort of get to that kind of dark and
1116
00:48:20,879 --> 00:48:24,109
lost place together, and it is awesome.
1117
00:48:24,180 --> 00:48:25,219
It's, it's awesome.
1118
00:48:25,219 --> 00:48:29,019
It, it did something to me because,
because of how special Changeling:
1119
00:48:29,019 --> 00:48:32,669
The Lost was to me as a young person,
Hinterland- Mm-hmm … kinda like
1120
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:38,289
to me realized that, that vision
a little bit, uh, in a big way
1121
00:48:39,918 --> 00:48:40,518
That's cool.
1122
00:48:40,538 --> 00:48:41,708
I love the vibe of that.
1123
00:48:41,708 --> 00:48:46,278
I love the concept of, uh, fae
stories, I think have been twisted
1124
00:48:46,278 --> 00:48:49,527
a little bit, uh, especially with,
like, the prevalence of D&D- Mm-hmm
1125
00:48:49,527 --> 00:48:50,947
and its version of the
Fae Wild and what that is.
1126
00:48:50,948 --> 00:48:54,897
But like I, I'm a s- I'm a sucker
for, like, old actual, like-
1127
00:48:55,578 --> 00:48:58,577
Dark fae … fairy, uh-
Yeah … dark fae With courts and-
1128
00:48:58,577 --> 00:48:59,078
Yeah, yeah
1129
00:48:59,197 --> 00:49:03,577
…
and competition and- Um … jealousy
and- Yes … yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1130
00:49:03,768 --> 00:49:03,898
Uh.
1131
00:49:03,898 --> 00:49:04,078
I
1132
00:49:04,078 --> 00:49:04,258
love
1133
00:49:04,258 --> 00:49:04,278
it.
1134
00:49:04,278 --> 00:49:06,108
Yeah, I mean, stealing
children and all the, like-
1135
00:49:06,108 --> 00:49:06,377
Yeah
1136
00:49:06,377 --> 00:49:08,947
…
every little thing that was not pulling
their punches in old fairy tales.
1137
00:49:08,947 --> 00:49:09,297
Yeah.
1138
00:49:09,847 --> 00:49:16,207
But also… And I love that, I love that
lesson or at least, um, the, what you're
1139
00:49:16,208 --> 00:49:18,997
doing with OneShot where you're saying,
"We're playing a lot of games," but,
1140
00:49:18,997 --> 00:49:24,357
like, they're, they don't require a lot
of, like, you know, pre-learning, right?
1141
00:49:24,357 --> 00:49:28,217
Like, it's something that you can pick up,
learn over the course of a day, then play
1142
00:49:28,227 --> 00:49:29,457
it the next day with your friends, right?
1143
00:49:29,457 --> 00:49:32,497
Like, these are the games- Yeah … that
I think more people- Yeah … need
1144
00:49:32,517 --> 00:49:38,067
to be aware of and, and, you know,
get them into different play styles
1145
00:49:38,067 --> 00:49:41,977
within the hobby and, and like we
said, dig deeper into those niches.
1146
00:49:41,977 --> 00:49:44,227
The s- s- uh Yeah … go
deeper into the hole.
1147
00:49:44,807 --> 00:49:45,117
Yeah.
1148
00:49:45,857 --> 00:49:49,758
D- so I gotta ask, you said you
were playing a Genesis home game.
1149
00:49:49,928 --> 00:49:53,908
Do you have long t- do you still play
long-term campaign style games or do
1150
00:49:53,908 --> 00:49:55,157
you- Um … have, have you kind of-
1151
00:49:55,197 --> 00:50:00,448
That, that is something that me and the
house, my housemates who are all- Yeah,
1152
00:50:00,448 --> 00:50:00,788
you have-
1153
00:50:00,797 --> 00:50:01,337
All of that … such
1154
00:50:01,337 --> 00:50:01,668
a cool house
1155
00:50:01,668 --> 00:50:02,657
I, oh, I do.
1156
00:50:02,657 --> 00:50:04,287
I live in the best place on earth.
1157
00:50:04,818 --> 00:50:09,817
Um, but we have made it a goal
to play long-term campaigns.
1158
00:50:09,827 --> 00:50:15,958
Um, it was actually Rowan's birthday wish,
the, to have everyone in the house run
1159
00:50:15,958 --> 00:50:20,917
a, like, six to eight session campaign-
Yep … in, in a game of their choice.
1160
00:50:21,418 --> 00:50:24,197
So Ovidii, yeah, has been running Genesis.
1161
00:50:24,627 --> 00:50:25,237
Um-
1162
00:50:25,307 --> 00:50:25,487
Mm-hmm
1163
00:50:25,567 --> 00:50:26,637
…
and I've really liked it.
1164
00:50:26,708 --> 00:50:27,977
I, I think it's really great.
1165
00:50:27,988 --> 00:50:30,437
It's bet- definitely better
than I expected it to be.
1166
00:50:30,437 --> 00:50:34,277
I was a little intimidated
by the system, but no longer.
1167
00:50:34,307 --> 00:50:36,088
Very happy about it.
1168
00:50:36,607 --> 00:50:40,767
And I know that I will be running
Changeling: The Lost because it's got, uh-
1169
00:50:40,997 --> 00:50:41,407
Oh, look at that
1170
00:50:41,537 --> 00:50:46,567
…
because it's got so much importance to me
historically, so I'm gonna be doing that.
1171
00:50:46,577 --> 00:50:48,668
So we are making room for that.
1172
00:50:48,987 --> 00:50:55,758
Um, I do theoretically have a, a
long-standing, uh, home game of D&D.
1173
00:50:56,447 --> 00:50:58,767
However, everybody's moved away.
1174
00:50:58,767 --> 00:51:00,577
We don't really get to do it anymore.
1175
00:51:00,587 --> 00:51:00,647
Mm-hmm.
1176
00:51:00,647 --> 00:51:06,436
But we played for- four
years in that campaign.
1177
00:51:06,456 --> 00:51:07,686
Mm-hmm.
1178
00:51:07,696 --> 00:51:08,026
Nice.
1179
00:51:08,286 --> 00:51:13,126
And, and we, we still, we still
occasionally get together.
1180
00:51:13,496 --> 00:51:14,156
Um-
1181
00:51:14,166 --> 00:51:14,416
Yeah
1182
00:51:14,416 --> 00:51:16,245
…
it's just very, very occasional.
1183
00:51:17,696 --> 00:51:22,366
Yeah, my home group ended up, uh,
moving away as well, and now we do
1184
00:51:22,366 --> 00:51:24,565
it digitally, and sometimes it's just
harder to make anything like that work.
1185
00:51:24,565 --> 00:51:24,995
We,
1186
00:51:25,366 --> 00:51:31,106
it's, you know, it's tough when you
didn't originate with an online game-
1187
00:51:31,466 --> 00:51:31,816
Table
1188
00:51:32,005 --> 00:51:35,466
or group, yeah … that, that chemistry
switch is very, is very tough.
1189
00:51:36,425 --> 00:51:36,705
Yeah.
1190
00:51:36,706 --> 00:51:39,165
Even when you try and keep it up, like
we'll get together, we start talking,
1191
00:51:39,165 --> 00:51:41,995
and it's like talking like we're talking,
but then the gameplay all of a sudden
1192
00:51:41,996 --> 00:51:44,155
is not as fluid 'cause like- Mm-hmm
1193
00:51:44,156 --> 00:51:45,455
we're used to being around one another.
1194
00:51:46,055 --> 00:51:50,806
And actually, speaking of, your, your
roommates, and Rowan, who is the co-host
1195
00:51:50,816 --> 00:51:52,765
of another of your podcasts, correct?
1196
00:51:52,765 --> 00:51:53,386
Is that, uh-
1197
00:51:53,386 --> 00:51:55,625
Uh, no, you are thinking of Robin.
1198
00:51:55,816 --> 00:51:57,615
Robin is- Robin … another
one of my roommates.
1199
00:51:57,616 --> 00:51:57,716
Sorry.
1200
00:51:57,745 --> 00:52:00,065
Yes, Robin and Rowan, very similar names.
1201
00:52:00,085 --> 00:52:03,765
But no, Robin is the co-host of
Dork Spawn, as I think you were-
1202
00:52:03,815 --> 00:52:04,375
Dork Spawn.
1203
00:52:04,386 --> 00:52:04,406
Yeah.
1204
00:52:04,406 --> 00:52:07,796
So yeah, and okay, here's where I just
wanna, I just wanna put out that I'm,
1205
00:52:07,855 --> 00:52:11,335
you know, jealous again, again- … of
all the games you get to play.
1206
00:52:11,615 --> 00:52:14,085
You still get to play a bunch
of video games, and you have a,
1207
00:52:14,235 --> 00:52:17,215
a video game book club podcast
with Robin- Yeah … Dork Spawn.
1208
00:52:17,536 --> 00:52:20,085
And you've played through some
of my personal favorite games,
1209
00:52:20,106 --> 00:52:22,086
the Mass Effect games, on there.
1210
00:52:22,176 --> 00:52:22,786
Nice.
1211
00:52:22,805 --> 00:52:25,415
Uh- Good … you're a big
Dragon Age, uh, Dragon Age
1212
00:52:25,496 --> 00:52:25,856
person- Yeah … is that correct?
1213
00:52:25,856 --> 00:52:28,295
Dragon Age is what originated the idea.
1214
00:52:28,335 --> 00:52:32,675
I kept, I kept- Mm … trying to like
tell Robin why I loved Dragon Age.
1215
00:52:32,685 --> 00:52:37,925
Mm. And like they had, they had, I think,
played a little bit of Inquisition, which
1216
00:52:37,926 --> 00:52:43,805
is the third game in the series, bounced
off of it, and like didn't really, didn't
1217
00:52:43,805 --> 00:52:46,165
really, uh, get much of, uh, from it.
1218
00:52:46,655 --> 00:52:49,745
And so when I was trying to like explain
one night, we were like hanging out over
1219
00:52:49,746 --> 00:52:55,205
a call, we were drinking and chatting it
up, and I was like, "No, I gotta tell you
1220
00:52:55,206 --> 00:53:00,125
like, like, why this like means so much
to me." And so what I did was- Yeah … I
1221
00:53:00,125 --> 00:53:05,595
actually wound up showing them the Dragon
Age Keep, which for anybody who knows is
1222
00:53:06,075 --> 00:53:14,151
how Dragon Age as a series made it so that
people could incorporate all their choices
1223
00:53:14,162 --> 00:53:17,252
from the earlier games into Inquisition.
1224
00:53:18,312 --> 00:53:19,042
Oh, that's cool.
1225
00:53:19,082 --> 00:53:22,651
And what they did with it was brilliant,
where you just manually input all of your
1226
00:53:22,662 --> 00:53:27,732
major choices, and then one of the voice
actors, the voice actor who plays Varric
1227
00:53:27,781 --> 00:53:33,311
Tethras, who is, like, a storyteller in
the series, tells it to you as a story.
1228
00:53:33,371 --> 00:53:39,081
Like, tells the story of the world
up until the start of Inquisition
1229
00:53:39,091 --> 00:53:40,611
and will just narrate it to you.
1230
00:53:40,852 --> 00:53:42,801
So I was like, "Hey," like,
"why don't we do this?
1231
00:53:42,801 --> 00:53:47,771
And, like, maybe you'll like Inquisition
better if you, if you play it with,
1232
00:53:47,772 --> 00:53:50,711
like, a custom world or whatever,
and I can kinda talk you through it."
1233
00:53:50,722 --> 00:53:55,221
Mm-hmm. We wound up doing that, and
in me doing that, and how much fun we
1234
00:53:55,222 --> 00:53:58,831
had talking about it, they were like,
"Do you know what I've always dreamed?
1235
00:53:58,882 --> 00:54:04,831
I've always dreamed about doing a
podcast that's, like, that analyzes
1236
00:54:04,831 --> 00:54:09,641
and, like, discusses video games in the
same way that people do for books and
1237
00:54:09,651 --> 00:54:15,151
other media." Uh- Okay … and I was
like, "Well, fuck, let's do it then." We
1238
00:54:15,151 --> 00:54:16,722
literally recorded, I think the next day.
1239
00:54:16,722 --> 00:54:18,181
We recorded our first episode.
1240
00:54:18,182 --> 00:54:23,071
We played the, the Origin from
Dragon Age: Origins, um, and played
1241
00:54:23,071 --> 00:54:25,271
it and recorded our first episode.
1242
00:54:26,101 --> 00:54:30,241
And we did all of the Dragon Age series,
and then we did all of Mass Effect.
1243
00:54:30,411 --> 00:54:32,461
We did- Mm-hmm … Fallout: New Vegas.
1244
00:54:33,082 --> 00:54:37,881
We did Expedition 33, uh, which
we only- Oh … did that one as
1245
00:54:37,881 --> 00:54:41,301
one episode 'cause there really
is only one choice, uh, in it.
1246
00:54:41,301 --> 00:54:44,391
'Cause we're sticking- Right … to
choice-based video games, games
1247
00:54:44,391 --> 00:54:47,181
where your choices impact the world.
1248
00:54:47,182 --> 00:54:47,361
Yeah.
1249
00:54:47,911 --> 00:54:52,442
So that we have, like, things to explore
and things to talk about, about, like, our
1250
00:54:52,442 --> 00:54:54,571
different branching experiences with them.
1251
00:54:55,451 --> 00:54:55,831
Mm-hmm.
1252
00:54:55,861 --> 00:55:00,812
And then right now we are in
the middle of playing, um, we're
1253
00:55:00,812 --> 00:55:02,321
playing Stray Gods right now, yeah.
1254
00:55:02,621 --> 00:55:04,452
Uh, which is another short one.
1255
00:55:04,491 --> 00:55:06,461
This is only gonna be two episodes.
1256
00:55:06,531 --> 00:55:08,081
Uh, it's a short game.
1257
00:55:08,081 --> 00:55:11,191
It's a, a, again, a musical video game.
1258
00:55:11,581 --> 00:55:14,311
Uh, it's the musical- Ooh … the
musical role-playing game.
1259
00:55:14,321 --> 00:55:14,341
Whoa.
1260
00:55:14,722 --> 00:55:15,062
Yeah.
1261
00:55:15,062 --> 00:55:16,601
All of our circles are, uh- We're
bringing it all back around.
1262
00:55:17,141 --> 00:55:17,391
It-
1263
00:55:17,542 --> 00:55:18,511
And so it's interesting.
1264
00:55:18,511 --> 00:55:18,581
Very cool.
1265
00:55:18,661 --> 00:55:22,772
We do a lot of, we do a lot of
gushing, a lot of critique, uh, and
1266
00:55:22,772 --> 00:55:26,621
a lot of goofing off, and a lot a…
And it's just, it's really fun to do
1267
00:55:28,913 --> 00:55:29,194
That's awesome.
1268
00:55:29,223 --> 00:55:35,614
Yeah, I, uh, my, unfortunately, my, um, my
video game experiences lately have, have
1269
00:55:35,614 --> 00:55:38,703
been limited to grabbing the controller
from my five-year-old 'cause he can't beat
1270
00:55:38,703 --> 00:55:40,614
a Mario game, which is, uh- Sure … fine.
1271
00:55:40,654 --> 00:55:41,233
He's five.
1272
00:55:41,233 --> 00:55:42,363
Uh- He's five … but it's also like-
1273
00:55:42,624 --> 00:55:42,794
Yeah
1274
00:55:42,794 --> 00:55:43,653
…
okay, I remember doing this.
1275
00:55:43,663 --> 00:55:44,064
You know what I mean?
1276
00:55:44,064 --> 00:55:44,124
Like
1277
00:55:44,373 --> 00:55:44,763
Yeah.
1278
00:55:44,854 --> 00:55:47,354
And like we do have him playing
like the Super Nintendo ones because
1279
00:55:47,354 --> 00:55:50,703
it's like, I don't need you getting
into, you know, like l- learn,
1280
00:55:50,763 --> 00:55:52,243
learn the, the early stuff first.
1281
00:55:52,254 --> 00:55:53,533
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
1282
00:55:53,543 --> 00:55:53,793
So yeah.
1283
00:55:53,793 --> 00:55:54,183
Yeah.
1284
00:55:54,193 --> 00:55:54,213
Um,
1285
00:55:54,484 --> 00:55:55,123
that's awesome.
1286
00:55:55,133 --> 00:55:56,524
Give him his roots, yeah.
1287
00:55:57,334 --> 00:56:00,584
I, I love the idea of talking about
the branching paths of video games.
1288
00:56:00,584 --> 00:56:06,533
I had a conversation with somebody not
that long ago about there's obvious video
1289
00:56:06,534 --> 00:56:11,183
game DNA in a lot of modern TTRPGs, right?
1290
00:56:11,413 --> 00:56:11,843
Mm-hmm.
1291
00:56:11,843 --> 00:56:14,043
Like, you can get your
FromSoft vibes, right?
1292
00:56:14,073 --> 00:56:15,584
Like your Souls likes, right?
1293
00:56:15,654 --> 00:56:17,774
Uh, that people are trying
to emulate at the table.
1294
00:56:17,924 --> 00:56:22,334
And then obviously, early video games had
a lot of early TTRPG influence in like,
1295
00:56:22,334 --> 00:56:24,754
you know, your early Final Fantasies
and your early, you know what I mean?
1296
00:56:24,754 --> 00:56:29,064
Like, these things are effectively
old school D&D just put to, you
1297
00:56:29,064 --> 00:56:30,583
know, 8-bit, 16-bit graphics.
1298
00:56:30,854 --> 00:56:34,343
So like there's clearly a conversation
between those two things, but I love the
1299
00:56:34,344 --> 00:56:38,373
idea of talking about, we were talking
about the reason that sometimes video
1300
00:56:38,374 --> 00:56:43,863
games feel good and not at all like TTRPGs
is because no matter what, you're playing
1301
00:56:43,863 --> 00:56:46,144
a scripted story in a video game, right?
1302
00:56:46,664 --> 00:56:47,183
Mm-hmm.
1303
00:56:47,183 --> 00:56:49,164
And you h- might have those
games where you have these big
1304
00:56:49,173 --> 00:56:53,393
branching choices that matter in
the experience that you get- Yeah
1305
00:56:53,393 --> 00:56:56,483
but like the beginning and the
end is usually fixed, right?
1306
00:56:56,683 --> 00:57:00,083
Uh, there might be multiple endings,
which is better in my opinion, if you
1307
00:57:00,084 --> 00:57:01,604
have these branching pathways and whatnot.
1308
00:57:01,734 --> 00:57:05,113
Whereas a TTRPG- It- … it
feels like almost everything-
1309
00:57:05,113 --> 00:57:05,943
It- … is way more branching,
1310
00:57:06,033 --> 00:57:06,063
right?
1311
00:57:06,063 --> 00:57:06,654
Um- Yeah.
1312
00:57:06,654 --> 00:57:07,553
Yeah, for sure.
1313
00:57:07,553 --> 00:57:08,084
Yeah.
1314
00:57:08,084 --> 00:57:08,524
Yeah.
1315
00:57:08,524 --> 00:57:08,983
Um…
1316
00:57:09,143 --> 00:57:09,553
Mm-hmm.
1317
00:57:10,624 --> 00:57:11,013
Yeah, I-
1318
00:57:11,013 --> 00:57:11,273
Well, I don't know.
1319
00:57:11,313 --> 00:57:13,884
I- I do, I- I still, I miss
the, I, I miss video games.
1320
00:57:14,253 --> 00:57:15,043
I know.
1321
00:57:15,043 --> 00:57:15,633
I know.
1322
00:57:15,633 --> 00:57:20,003
It's so… And I mean, the thing is,
is that, uh, it's, you know, it's
1323
00:57:20,003 --> 00:57:24,203
different for different people, but
for me, I, I, like playing a, playing
1324
00:57:24,203 --> 00:57:28,773
a game is, is gonna be b- my preferred
way of, of relaxing and hanging out.
1325
00:57:28,773 --> 00:57:30,613
And now yes, I have made that work.
1326
00:57:30,654 --> 00:57:33,538
But however- Um, but-
1327
00:57:33,538 --> 00:57:34,433
As we do, right?
1328
00:57:34,463 --> 00:57:36,593
But however, I have also- I
have, I love my hobby so much.
1329
00:57:37,423 --> 00:57:41,884
I have also made this one, you know,
dork- on Dork Spawn we, you know, we,
1330
00:57:41,893 --> 00:57:44,604
we make it a very low stakes show.
1331
00:57:44,643 --> 00:57:47,463
This is not, we're not going to
win any awards- Yeah … here.
1332
00:57:47,554 --> 00:57:52,813
We're not, it's not, I, I, this, it…
But, but despite that, you know, I
1333
00:57:52,823 --> 00:57:54,623
think there's a, a real interest.
1334
00:57:54,623 --> 00:57:58,053
We have a nice little active community
of people who play the games alongside
1335
00:57:58,054 --> 00:57:59,744
of us and have discussion about them.
1336
00:57:59,744 --> 00:57:59,974
And-
1337
00:58:00,173 --> 00:58:00,453
Oh, that's so
1338
00:58:00,453 --> 00:58:02,633
fun … you know, I, I
think it's really fun.
1339
00:58:02,634 --> 00:58:05,523
I just saw someone on Tumblr say
that they played Mass Effect for the
1340
00:58:05,524 --> 00:58:10,364
first time, uh, because they were
listening to us, and that is huge.
1341
00:58:10,774 --> 00:58:13,424
Um, because I also- Love that … was
playing it for the first time
1342
00:58:14,862 --> 00:58:19,052
Yes, I remember, I remember following
along when you were, uh, in your play
1343
00:58:19,052 --> 00:58:22,842
through and I was very excited, uh,
'cause I'd only recently beat them I
1344
00:58:22,842 --> 00:58:24,692
think by the time you'd started, so.
1345
00:58:24,832 --> 00:58:25,382
Yeah.
1346
00:58:25,912 --> 00:58:27,762
Uh, but it's just, it's, it's really cool.
1347
00:58:28,122 --> 00:58:32,901
I… And it's really fun, and it is
just a way to, like, also just get to
1348
00:58:33,032 --> 00:58:36,491
consume more of the things that I like.
1349
00:58:37,712 --> 00:58:37,912
Yeah.
1350
00:58:37,912 --> 00:58:42,911
And it's, it's time I would
otherwise spend scrolling.
1351
00:58:42,991 --> 00:58:44,382
Uh, so it's good.
1352
00:58:45,612 --> 00:58:46,162
Yes.
1353
00:58:46,192 --> 00:58:46,802
That is good.
1354
00:58:47,022 --> 00:58:47,172
Yeah.
1355
00:58:47,172 --> 00:58:48,692
Always find your alternative to scrolling.
1356
00:58:48,812 --> 00:58:49,122
Yeah.
1357
00:58:49,132 --> 00:58:50,061
Uh, that is a good one.
1358
00:58:50,292 --> 00:58:50,522
Mm-hmm.
1359
00:58:50,522 --> 00:58:52,821
Uh, I have one question before
we transition to closing
1360
00:58:52,821 --> 00:58:53,992
questions- Great … most likely.
1361
00:58:54,242 --> 00:58:58,552
Uh, which is based on your TTRPGs and,
and obviously the, the podcast that you
1362
00:58:58,882 --> 00:59:04,321
are a host of, which is DorkSpawn and
One Shot, and d- does walking away from
1363
00:59:04,321 --> 00:59:09,462
one or the other, I guess more the video
games than going back to TTRPGs, do you
1364
00:59:09,462 --> 00:59:13,671
ever have a moment in a video game where
you're like, "Oh my God, that was great,
1365
00:59:13,671 --> 00:59:15,051
and now I need to do this at the table."
1366
00:59:15,061 --> 00:59:16,721
Like, "This is a thing that,
like, I need to implement or-"
1367
00:59:16,722 --> 00:59:18,021
All the time.
1368
00:59:18,132 --> 00:59:18,761
All the time.
1369
00:59:18,761 --> 00:59:19,001
Yeah.
1370
00:59:19,001 --> 00:59:19,552
All the time.
1371
00:59:19,552 --> 00:59:19,718
Yes.
1372
00:59:19,718 --> 00:59:24,411
I think, I think- Yeah … um, something
I really love, I mean, I, I, that
1373
00:59:24,411 --> 00:59:30,152
I always come back to is, is this
moment in Dragon Age: Origins, which
1374
00:59:30,152 --> 00:59:38,161
is, like, for sure tied to D&D in an
ancestral way, 'cause that game was
1375
00:59:38,161 --> 00:59:40,331
inspired by the original Baldur's Gate.
1376
00:59:40,562 --> 00:59:43,941
So, like, there, there's, there's,
there's some lineage there.
1377
00:59:44,882 --> 00:59:45,041
Mm-hmm.
1378
00:59:45,051 --> 00:59:50,421
But there is a scene at the end where, you
know, throughout this whole game you are
1379
00:59:50,422 --> 00:59:54,301
selecting your two favorite party members,
and they're going off on adventures, and
1380
00:59:54,301 --> 00:59:57,961
then you come back to camp and reconnect
with everybody, et cetera, et cetera.
1381
00:59:58,312 --> 01:00:05,881
There is a moment in that final
crescendo to the finale where everybody
1382
01:00:05,882 --> 01:00:12,071
is there, everyone from your squad,
everyone that you've allied with
1383
01:00:12,091 --> 01:00:15,851
out in the world, everybody, and
you're, you're running past them.
1384
01:00:15,851 --> 01:00:18,052
You're seeing them in, in the streets.
1385
01:00:18,052 --> 01:00:23,192
It's like I think of that, and then I
think of, like, I can draw a line to that
1386
01:00:23,211 --> 01:00:29,761
and the finale to campaign one of Critical
Role where they were also, like- Yeah
1387
01:00:29,831 --> 01:00:34,141
run- running through and, like, and, and
finding all of their allies, and finding
1388
01:00:34,142 --> 01:00:39,091
who had come and to surprise them and
join them, and like, a- and, and rally.
1389
01:00:39,091 --> 01:00:43,822
And that, like, big moment where all
of your choices, all of your efforts,
1390
01:00:43,822 --> 01:00:46,841
all of the things that you had done
are now culminating in a way that
1391
01:00:46,841 --> 01:00:51,112
you can see and feel in the game, I
think that that's something that I
1392
01:00:51,112 --> 01:00:53,602
love to see present at a, at a table-
1393
01:00:53,672 --> 01:00:53,862
Ugh
1394
01:00:54,271 --> 01:00:58,232
as well, and I think it's obviously
something that works so well in a video
1395
01:00:58,232 --> 01:01:01,012
game, and, and the translation works.
1396
01:01:02,262 --> 01:01:04,092
That's such a good one.
1397
01:01:04,092 --> 01:01:04,352
Mm-hmm.
1398
01:01:04,352 --> 01:01:04,902
I love that.
1399
01:01:04,912 --> 01:01:06,192
It's like a curtain call.
1400
01:01:06,212 --> 01:01:10,862
It is the… It, it's a pseudo montage
of all of the best moments, right?
1401
01:01:10,862 --> 01:01:11,742
Of all of the decisions you've made.
1402
01:01:11,742 --> 01:01:12,092
Yeah.
1403
01:01:12,092 --> 01:01:12,192
Right?
1404
01:01:12,192 --> 01:01:13,642
If you're talking about
the decision trees, right?
1405
01:01:13,642 --> 01:01:14,191
And all this stuff.
1406
01:01:14,342 --> 01:01:14,622
Yeah.
1407
01:01:14,622 --> 01:01:17,382
It's a reminder of all the things
that you've chosen that matter.
1408
01:01:17,592 --> 01:01:17,762
Mm-hmm.
1409
01:01:17,771 --> 01:01:20,491
Uh, mattering again one
more time at the end.
1410
01:01:20,861 --> 01:01:21,261
Yeah.
1411
01:01:21,261 --> 01:01:23,171
A, a, a fond farewell.
1412
01:01:23,202 --> 01:01:24,002
Oh, that's so good.
1413
01:01:24,161 --> 01:01:24,731
Mm-hmm.
1414
01:01:24,731 --> 01:01:25,061
That's such a good one.
1415
01:01:26,232 --> 01:01:26,782
All right.
1416
01:01:26,822 --> 01:01:30,071
Well, now I feel bad 'cause I
would've made a perfect answer to
1417
01:01:30,071 --> 01:01:32,651
this first question, but now you get
to double up and do something else.
1418
01:01:32,661 --> 01:01:33,021
Right.
1419
01:01:33,071 --> 01:01:36,782
Uh, we're gonna move to closing questions,
and I always ask the same three, and
1420
01:01:36,782 --> 01:01:40,021
now it's actually four, but only three
of them are questions, so technically I
1421
01:01:40,021 --> 01:01:41,571
was always right, so don't come at me.
1422
01:01:41,641 --> 01:01:41,911
Right.
1423
01:01:41,911 --> 01:01:42,341
Check.
1424
01:01:42,341 --> 01:01:47,531
Uh, the f- the first one is, do
you have any last bits of wisdom,
1425
01:01:47,531 --> 01:01:49,541
advice, or homework for the listeners?
1426
01:01:50,431 --> 01:01:51,472
Oh my gosh.
1427
01:01:51,521 --> 01:01:52,501
Or homework?
1428
01:01:52,562 --> 01:01:53,042
Um-
1429
01:01:53,411 --> 01:01:54,251
Assign homework.
1430
01:01:54,271 --> 01:01:54,501
Make
1431
01:01:54,501 --> 01:01:55,864
them do something.
1432
01:01:55,864 --> 01:01:56,276
Yeah, my homework is that-
1433
01:01:56,276 --> 01:01:57,201
Those lazy listeners of mine
1434
01:01:57,321 --> 01:02:01,431
…
my homework is that the One Page
RPG Jam is happening right now,
1435
01:02:01,621 --> 01:02:06,171
uh, until next month, and I think
you should make a one-page RPG.
1436
01:02:06,262 --> 01:02:08,722
If you've never made an RPG
before, I think you should do it.
1437
01:02:08,751 --> 01:02:10,321
I think you should just do it, coward.
1438
01:02:10,351 --> 01:02:11,531
I think you should just make one.
1439
01:02:11,561 --> 01:02:13,312
Like, make one about anything.
1440
01:02:13,472 --> 01:02:14,821
Make one about anything you want.
1441
01:02:15,271 --> 01:02:15,682
Do it.
1442
01:02:15,732 --> 01:02:16,292
Seriously.
1443
01:02:16,402 --> 01:02:16,462
Just, yeah.
1444
01:02:16,462 --> 01:02:20,082
And then you should join the One
Page RPG Jam, and you should read
1445
01:02:20,091 --> 01:02:24,191
all of the things that people are
saying and, like, absorb all of the
1446
01:02:24,201 --> 01:02:27,911
brilliant thoughts from brilliant game
designers who are doing a silly thing
1447
01:02:27,911 --> 01:02:30,801
for fun, uh, but still are brilliant.
1448
01:02:31,251 --> 01:02:33,301
And then you should make it,
and then you should play it.
1449
01:02:34,131 --> 01:02:34,732
That's your homework.
1450
01:02:35,631 --> 01:02:37,221
Thank you for reminding
me that this is a thing.
1451
01:02:37,251 --> 01:02:39,511
Unfortunately, this is gonna come
out after it's over, so this…
1452
01:02:39,542 --> 01:02:40,241
You know what that is, though?
1453
01:02:40,311 --> 01:02:41,162
Oh my God.
1454
01:02:41,222 --> 01:02:42,051
That gives every listener- Do it anyway.
1455
01:02:42,091 --> 01:02:42,521
Yeah.
1456
01:02:42,521 --> 01:02:42,832
Okay.
1457
01:02:42,832 --> 01:02:43,152
Yeah.
1458
01:02:43,431 --> 01:02:43,611
Yeah.
1459
01:02:43,622 --> 01:02:44,661
Make, make one anyway.
1460
01:02:44,681 --> 01:02:45,241
Do it anyway.
1461
01:02:45,251 --> 01:02:45,911
Make it for next year, you know?
1462
01:02:45,911 --> 01:02:46,591
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1463
01:02:46,621 --> 01:02:49,461
Although, there usually is a theme,
so you might not, uh, do that.
1464
01:02:49,461 --> 01:02:49,822
But you know what?
1465
01:02:49,851 --> 01:02:52,091
Then now you have the benefit
of not having a deadline.
1466
01:02:52,091 --> 01:02:52,271
Yeah,
1467
01:02:52,271 --> 01:02:52,951
do it anyway.
1468
01:02:52,951 --> 01:02:53,342
But you should do it anyway.
1469
01:02:53,561 --> 01:02:53,901
Mm-hmm.
1470
01:02:53,902 --> 01:02:54,601
Set yourself a deadline.
1471
01:02:54,621 --> 01:02:54,921
Do it.
1472
01:02:55,241 --> 01:02:56,171
I'm gonna join this jam.
1473
01:02:56,171 --> 01:02:57,132
Clicking the button right now.
1474
01:02:57,361 --> 01:02:59,811
Uh, I have plenty of ideas that
I can turn into a one-page RPG.
1475
01:02:59,902 --> 01:03:00,112
Good.
1476
01:03:00,112 --> 01:03:00,342
Let's go.
1477
01:03:01,371 --> 01:03:02,061
All right.
1478
01:03:02,591 --> 01:03:03,651
That's, that's always good.
1479
01:03:03,691 --> 01:03:04,221
Make a game.
1480
01:03:04,251 --> 01:03:05,612
It doesn't have to be- Yeah … fantastic.
1481
01:03:05,612 --> 01:03:06,891
It just has to be fun.
1482
01:03:07,051 --> 01:03:07,771
Like, make something.
1483
01:03:08,512 --> 01:03:13,721
The second question is, uh, it's kind of
a broad one, uh, it, uh, vaguely worded,
1484
01:03:13,722 --> 01:03:18,922
but are there any games you really wanna
get to the table or an idea you've always
1485
01:03:18,931 --> 01:03:24,292
wanted to make happen in either a game
or as like a plot hook or something
1486
01:03:24,292 --> 01:03:25,791
like that that you've yet to happen?
1487
01:03:26,601 --> 01:03:28,221
I am… Ooh
1488
01:03:32,064 --> 01:03:35,464
I don't know what I haven't
done, like plot-wise.
1489
01:03:35,464 --> 01:03:41,314
That, that, that I might need, I, I, I,
I might need to really think on that.
1490
01:03:41,693 --> 01:03:46,174
But hold on, uh, I am, yes, I am really
excited about, and I haven't done
1491
01:03:46,174 --> 01:03:51,123
it yet, but I'm really excited about
and want to play Stew Pot really bad.
1492
01:03:51,584 --> 01:03:52,214
Um-
1493
01:03:52,223 --> 01:03:53,514
Oh, yes.
1494
01:03:53,854 --> 01:03:54,424
Yeah.
1495
01:03:54,424 --> 01:03:59,613
Stew Pot is sort of like a, a, a,
it's a collection of games really, but
1496
01:03:59,613 --> 01:04:04,203
they're all geared towards one thing,
which is you're retired adventurers, and
1497
01:04:04,203 --> 01:04:06,884
you are, like, just living your life.
1498
01:04:07,514 --> 01:04:13,264
And I, I have a dream for this, and
I, I don't wanna say it necessarily
1499
01:04:13,264 --> 01:04:16,163
out loud because I'm hoping to do
it for one shot, and I'm hoping that
1500
01:04:16,163 --> 01:04:18,893
I make my dream happen for this.
1501
01:04:18,893 --> 01:04:21,544
But we'll see if I'm able to
execute it before I go ahead
1502
01:04:21,544 --> 01:04:23,643
and say it and stumble myself.
1503
01:04:24,053 --> 01:04:26,353
But- Mm … I just really love that.
1504
01:04:26,383 --> 01:04:27,513
I love it a lot.
1505
01:04:27,543 --> 01:04:34,294
I, I, um, one of my favorite one-shots
ever was Campanions, which is a game
1506
01:04:34,303 --> 01:04:37,684
where you are literally playing, like,
the people left behind at camp in
1507
01:04:37,684 --> 01:04:42,154
your video game, like Dragon Age, Mass
Effect, uh, et cetera, Baldur's Gate 3.
1508
01:04:42,554 --> 01:04:43,209
It's- That's
1509
01:04:43,209 --> 01:04:43,444
great
1510
01:04:43,444 --> 01:04:47,443
…
and this is a similar vibe to that,
and I haven't played it yet, and I'm
1511
01:04:47,444 --> 01:04:48,714
just really looking forward to it
1512
01:04:49,998 --> 01:04:52,918
Yeah, Stewpot looks amazing,
and it is, it's great.
1513
01:04:52,918 --> 01:04:55,418
It, it's, it is like you said, a
collection of almost, like, the
1514
01:04:55,418 --> 01:04:57,148
things that you have to do, right?
1515
01:04:57,208 --> 01:05:01,518
That your, maybe your past, uh,
has something to do with how you
1516
01:05:01,518 --> 01:05:02,878
handle them or what you do about it.
1517
01:05:03,137 --> 01:05:05,048
But it is, the stakes are much lower.
1518
01:05:05,408 --> 01:05:05,848
Yeah.
1519
01:05:05,848 --> 01:05:08,687
But it is… Stewpot's,
uh, on my list as well.
1520
01:05:08,838 --> 01:05:09,358
Mm-hmm.
1521
01:05:09,367 --> 01:05:09,818
Uh, that's great.
1522
01:05:10,357 --> 01:05:10,938
All right.
1523
01:05:11,348 --> 01:05:13,698
That, this is the new one that I've
only recently started asking people.
1524
01:05:13,707 --> 01:05:14,507
Okay.
1525
01:05:15,467 --> 01:05:19,108
My TBR, my TBR is, like, hundreds
deep, but that's okay if you
1526
01:05:19,108 --> 01:05:20,288
wanna throw another book on here.
1527
01:05:20,318 --> 01:05:25,277
Or do you wanna give me and the listeners
a book to read, a video game to play,
1528
01:05:25,327 --> 01:05:29,688
or, like, a movie or TV show to go binge-
Okay … that you're like, "This is, this
1529
01:05:29,688 --> 01:05:31,147
is the shit and you need to go do it."
1530
01:05:31,268 --> 01:05:31,618
Okay.
1531
01:05:31,957 --> 01:05:32,557
I have one.
1532
01:05:32,557 --> 01:05:35,367
I have a, I have a, a
kinda twofer for you.
1533
01:05:35,397 --> 01:05:36,507
It's a game and a book.
1534
01:05:36,507 --> 01:05:36,757
Great.
1535
01:05:36,757 --> 01:05:37,778
A game and a book.
1536
01:05:38,338 --> 01:05:38,538
Nice.
1537
01:05:38,547 --> 01:05:40,317
A game for you to play and
a book for you to read.
1538
01:05:40,948 --> 01:05:42,398
They are so similar.
1539
01:05:42,417 --> 01:05:48,077
Um, I, I want you to read a book called
The L- Last Smile in Sundered City.
1540
01:05:48,807 --> 01:05:53,887
I think it's brilliant and heartbreaking
and very, very just well-written.
1541
01:05:54,117 --> 01:05:57,688
It is the first in a series,
so unfortunately if you do like
1542
01:05:57,688 --> 01:06:01,598
it, you will be hooked into
reading a couple more books.
1543
01:06:01,608 --> 01:06:01,638
But-
1544
01:06:01,828 --> 01:06:02,647
Challenge accepted
1545
01:06:02,758 --> 01:06:03,947
…
but do it anyway.
1546
01:06:04,547 --> 01:06:09,567
And then the game is A Land Once Magic
by Vaidehi Valecha, which is, I recommend
1547
01:06:09,568 --> 01:06:13,327
because they are in conversation
with each other in such a fun way.
1548
01:06:14,277 --> 01:06:17,487
A Land Once Magic is a game, a
world-building game where you and your
1549
01:06:17,487 --> 01:06:25,177
friends will collaboratively create a
post-fantasy world where, where magic has
1550
01:06:25,178 --> 01:06:31,257
existed but is changing or disappearing
or being altered in some way or another.
1551
01:06:31,788 --> 01:06:33,687
Yeah, there it is, that
beautiful little book.
1552
01:06:33,687 --> 01:06:34,797
It's so perfect.
1553
01:06:34,818 --> 01:06:35,527
I love it.
1554
01:06:36,347 --> 01:06:37,677
Um- It is
1555
01:06:37,677 --> 01:06:37,818
it is.
1556
01:06:37,818 --> 01:06:42,417
And then, uh, The Last Smile in
Sundered City is a book that takes
1557
01:06:42,417 --> 01:06:46,198
place in a world that could have been
created playing A Land Once Magic.
1558
01:06:46,487 --> 01:06:47,407
It is a-
1559
01:06:48,407 --> 01:06:48,637
Sweet
1560
01:06:48,937 --> 01:06:54,867
…
noir fantasy world in which I think
it is 10 years ago, magic disappeared.
1561
01:06:55,387 --> 01:07:00,198
So also to your kind of, uh-
Yes … interest that you brought up,
1562
01:07:00,207 --> 01:07:01,658
it does take place- Post-catastrophe
1563
01:07:01,658 --> 01:07:03,707
10 years post the catastrophe.
1564
01:07:03,707 --> 01:07:04,087
Yeah.
1565
01:07:04,087 --> 01:07:05,537
Uh, so everybody is, like-
1566
01:07:05,567 --> 01:07:05,877
Yeah
1567
01:07:05,977 --> 01:07:12,137
…
still kind of adjusting, but ha- society
has moved on, but people haven't moved on.
1568
01:07:12,877 --> 01:07:15,327
It's, it's very- Perfect … interesting
and it's well-written and it's,
1569
01:07:15,327 --> 01:07:16,388
it's beau- it's a beautiful book
1570
01:07:17,824 --> 01:07:18,274
Excellent.
1571
01:07:18,284 --> 01:07:20,784
Yes, definitely recommend
A Land Once Magic.
1572
01:07:20,824 --> 01:07:22,094
I have it and it's been…
1573
01:07:22,263 --> 01:07:25,674
I was going to use it, uh, here it comes.
1574
01:07:25,674 --> 01:07:29,003
It's, it's the, it's the… Every
time I have an episode, I have
1575
01:07:29,004 --> 01:07:31,833
a work game that has been going
on for three plus years now.
1576
01:07:31,864 --> 01:07:32,314
Love.
1577
01:07:32,984 --> 01:07:37,983
And my, my table at lunch has
ballooned from three to now 12 players.
1578
01:07:38,203 --> 01:07:38,453
Mm-hmm.
1579
01:07:38,463 --> 01:07:41,913
Um, which is bonkers that we get
anything done in a lunch, uh, break.
1580
01:07:41,953 --> 01:07:46,453
But, uh, we were starting our campaign
two recently, and I brought in A Land
1581
01:07:46,453 --> 01:07:49,443
Once Magic to be like, "If we wanna
break everything and start again with a
1582
01:07:49,444 --> 01:07:50,914
brand-new world." And then they were like-
1583
01:07:50,914 --> 01:07:51,273
Mm-hmm
1584
01:07:51,463 --> 01:07:52,844
… "
Let's keep playing in this
world that we've been playing
1585
01:07:52,844 --> 01:07:53,624
in." I was like, "Okay, fine.
1586
01:07:53,624 --> 01:07:54,344
That's, that's cool, too.
1587
01:07:54,364 --> 01:07:55,814
We'll do that." But, but-
1588
01:07:55,814 --> 01:07:56,453
Mm-hmm
1589
01:07:56,504 --> 01:07:58,903
…
um, so we'll… I'll get
them to do this next time.
1590
01:07:58,933 --> 01:08:00,944
But, uh, and I've written
down… Thank you.
1591
01:08:00,963 --> 01:08:03,753
I, I always love a new
book to add to my list, so.
1592
01:08:03,774 --> 01:08:04,584
Yeah, it's really good.
1593
01:08:04,634 --> 01:08:05,003
All right.
1594
01:08:05,004 --> 01:08:05,253
I hope
1595
01:08:05,254 --> 01:08:05,324
you
1596
01:08:05,324 --> 01:08:05,524
like it.
1597
01:08:05,524 --> 01:08:10,264
And then the last… Yeah, and it's
part of a series, so, uh, here I go.
1598
01:08:10,364 --> 01:08:13,213
Uh, like I said, I'm just gonna
keep going down these rabbit holes.
1599
01:08:14,213 --> 01:08:15,313
The last one is not a question.
1600
01:08:15,373 --> 01:08:18,973
It is just the tell people about what
you got going on and where they can
1601
01:08:18,973 --> 01:08:20,473
find you out there in internet land.
1602
01:08:20,713 --> 01:08:21,063
Beautiful.
1603
01:08:21,063 --> 01:08:22,463
Well, I'm Dillin Apelian.
1604
01:08:22,463 --> 01:08:23,513
You can find
1605
01:08:23,513 --> 01:08:26,313
me as the host of One Shot,
wherever you get your podcasts.
1606
01:08:26,323 --> 01:08:29,823
We play a new RPG with a rotating cast
of some of the most talented people in
1607
01:08:29,823 --> 01:08:32,484
the entire world, uh, every few weeks.
1608
01:08:32,494 --> 01:08:36,634
So tune in and pick a game that sounds
interesting to you and give it a listen.
1609
01:08:37,293 --> 01:08:40,713
You could find me as one of the hosts
of Dork Spawn, where we do, like we
1610
01:08:40,723 --> 01:08:42,544
said, a video game book club podcast.
1611
01:08:42,863 --> 01:08:45,043
If that sounds your jam, go
ahead and listen to us there.
1612
01:08:45,604 --> 01:08:46,783
You can find my games
1613
01:08:47,553 --> 01:08:50,053
on my Itch at superDillin.itch.io.
1614
01:08:50,053 --> 01:08:51,553
You can also
1615
01:08:51,553 --> 01:08:57,153
find some of them for sale, uh,
through Plus1EXP and some other places.
1616
01:08:57,573 --> 01:09:00,143
Um, but if you look around,
you'll see them there.
1617
01:09:00,673 --> 01:09:04,733
And of course, you can get The
Ultimate RPG Villain Backstory
1618
01:09:04,763 --> 01:09:06,583
Guide wherever you get books.
1619
01:09:06,933 --> 01:09:12,123
Uh, but if you are looking for a place
less evil, I recommend either searching
1620
01:09:12,123 --> 01:09:15,773
up your local bookstore or Barnes & Noble
1621
01:09:17,384 --> 01:09:17,684
Nice.
1622
01:09:18,594 --> 01:09:19,073
All right.
1623
01:09:19,073 --> 01:09:19,174
Well,
1624
01:09:19,174 --> 01:09:20,676
thank you so much, Dillin, for coming on.
1625
01:09:20,676 --> 01:09:20,863
This
1626
01:09:20,863 --> 01:09:21,724
was a wonderful chat.
1627
01:09:21,743 --> 01:09:22,264
Thank you.
1628
01:09:22,733 --> 01:09:25,443
I hope all of those places will
be linked in the description,
1629
01:09:25,443 --> 01:09:26,353
so go start clicking them.
1630
01:09:26,464 --> 01:09:29,303
And I'm gonna try and link all the
many, many games and things we've talked
1631
01:09:29,303 --> 01:09:30,783
about, so those should be in there, too.
1632
01:09:31,374 --> 01:09:31,604
Right.
1633
01:09:31,703 --> 01:09:32,084
Hell yeah.
1634
01:09:32,393 --> 01:09:32,853
Goodbye.
1635
01:09:32,943 --> 01:09:33,214
Bye.
1636
01:09:35,103 --> 01:09:37,273
And as always, thank you so
much for listening to another
1637
01:09:37,273 --> 01:09:38,563
episode of Perspective Checks.
1638
01:09:39,004 --> 01:09:42,243
Please go check out Dillin
and the One Shot Podcast.
1639
01:09:42,243 --> 01:09:46,794
It is… I mean, if you didn't
know, truly you're welcome because
1640
01:09:47,304 --> 01:09:51,743
you have just been introduced to an
institution in actual play and RPGs
1641
01:09:51,744 --> 01:09:53,220
and indie RPGs.
1642
01:09:53,220 --> 01:09:56,173
So Dillin is an incredible mind
1643
01:09:56,173 --> 01:09:59,983
in the community, and you should go
follow him on all of the social medias.
1644
01:10:00,283 --> 01:10:04,513
And even though I did not submit
a game to the One Page RPG
1645
01:10:04,513 --> 01:10:06,724
Jam, I have plenty of ideas.
1646
01:10:06,753 --> 01:10:10,251
And I want you to make a one page RPG, and
I want you to tell me about it, and I want
1647
01:10:10,251 --> 01:10:11,523
you to send it to me, and I wanna play it.
1648
01:10:11,704 --> 01:10:14,673
So yeah, go click all those links.
1649
01:10:14,943 --> 01:10:15,434
Do the things.